Aamir Khan Celebrate Eid Festival

1. He has to wear heels while dancing w/ actresses. Normally it is reverse.

2. He wants to celebrate #CrackerlessDiwali but communal people ask him to celebrate #BloodlessEid instead.

3. He is superstar along with 2 other Khans. Akshay Kumar is at no 4. Why is not a Muslim at 4? This is the matter of concern. Are we a Hindu Rashtra?

4. After marrying 2 Hindu women and producing 3 Muslim kids, he is worried about freedom of choice a Muslim man has in Hindu India.

5. He is also worried about the situation if a Muslim man has Hindu wife and then he has an affair with Christian girl in UK with whom he has a love-child, then what will be the religion of the love-child.

6. He is worried about people dialing wrong number in temples when they can go to Hajj like Aamir and dial correct number.

7. He is worried about indecent language used by AIBRoast, which hurt his sentiments. Why can’t people use Bose D K several times instead which is perfectly decent, hain?

8. He is disturbed as to why killing of thousands daily in the name of Islam is being connected with Islam. He is equally disturbed that why the killing of one man in Dadri is not being highlighted as intolerance of India.

9. After having links with ARY group of Pakistan that openly airs shows threatening India of Ghazwa e Hind- the bloody conquest of India by Islamic forces, he is worried that how can one question his patriotism.

10. Interestingly his brother and father do not feel safe with him. Such a saint is now feeling unsafe in India.

PS: If it hurt the sentiments of Aamir Khan or his lovers, this is all we wanted. Every India-hater will be dealt with in similar way.

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

131 COMMENTS

  1. @Hindu

    Actually, have many wrong notions and I am not able to entertain all nor you are interested in “Swadhaya”. I like to know what are your restrictions? I Also do Job and but always in search of truth. I have also very little time, that is why I download all knowledge able stuff in my mobile and read and listen whenever I get time because I can not go to them all the time. Have you ever read Shankracharya commentary on Vedanta? Shankracharya believed all things made from Braham and there is no separate existence of soul and primordial matter. While Ved Vyas never said this. His interpretations were wrong. Do some Swadhaya and listen Acharya Satyajit Arya who teach all six Darshan philosophy.

    After reading and listening first 5 Sutra of Vedanta you will realize great misinterpretation of Shankracharya on Vedanta. You will find contradictions in Shankracharya interpretation and Ved Mantra.
    And Shankracharya never given in his commentary any single Mantra of Veda anywhere to prove his claims while all time he talked about Shruti (Veda)

    https://archive.org/details/002VD1.1.24

    • Dear sir,

      Yes Adi Sankara believes in existence of Brahmam (God) only. Universe, time and matter are non existent and illusion. But soul is existing stuff. This is identical with Brahmam. I have read some of his (AdiSankara) bhashyas (commentaries) in Sanskrit with English translations. He always quote from sruti(Vedas). I disagree if you say he is contradicting Vedas.

      I am sure you will agree with me when I say God is absolute reality and truth. God (attribute less nirguna brahmam) is not pleased by our prayers or we can’t do business with him (in the sense I give you this or I will make you happy and you make me happy). He is not a person. Repeatedly saying some prayers or doing rituals make him no happy.

      Only a person who is sinless, has clean mind, who is egoless and selfless is a knowledgeable / enlightened person. Only such persons can actually realize and experience God. I hope you agree with me here. I challenged you whether can you tell us how to experience God. Answer is nobody can explain it. It should be experienced. It’s not as simple as explaining 1+1=2.

      This is precisely ordinary people like me need to worship God with attributes (such as in idol worship), chant prayers and perform rituals. And believe me , I am experiencing a part of that eternal truth when I worship in those ancient temples associated with my family, when I perform rituals which my forefathers always done. The rituals gives me mental purity and discipline

      You may be experiencing it with your Raja yoga or whatever. Also my point is we must not ridicule each other and try to prove this is better or that’s better. Bhakthi, njana ,karma and raja yoga and all the 6 philosophies are different ways to control our desires, anger, passions etc and then realize God. All philosophies agrees that until we attain salvation we have to pass through transmigration

      When Sikh Gurus ask devotees to chant holy name of God and be pure, this is exactly what many Vaishnava/Saiva…

      • @Hindu

        Vedanta nowhere said God is material cause of universe. But is Prakriti (Primordial matter) which is material cause of universe, God is Agentive cause and souls are consumers. But Shankra misinterepret Vedanta. Vedic doctrine based on three eternal trinity i.e. God, Souls and Prakriti. All three have separate eternal existence. If you know Hindi please read it for more insight

        द्वा सुपर्णा सयुजा सखाया समानं वृक्षं परिषष्वजाते।

        तयोरन्यः पिप्पलं स्वाद्वत्यवश्न्नन्यो अभि चाकशीति।। ऋ॰ १/१६४/२॰)

        (द्वा) ब्रह्म और जीव दोनों (सुपर्णा) चेतनता और पालनादि गुणों से कुछ सदृश (सयुजा) व्याप्य-व्यापक भाव से संयुक्त (सखाया) परस्पर मित्रता युक्त (समानम्‍) वैसा ही (वृक्षम्द्ध प्रलय में छिन्न भिन्न होने वाले संसार रूप वृक्ष का (परिषष्वजाते) आश्रय लिये हुए हैं। (तयोरन्यः) इनमें से जो जीव है वह इस वृक्ष रूपी संसार में पाप-पुण्य रूप फलों को (स्वाद्वत्ति) स्वाद लेकर खा रहा है, भोग रहा है ओर दूसरा परमात्मा (अनश्नन्) न भोगता हुआ (अभि चाकशीति) चारों ओर विराजमान हो उसे देख रहा है।

        अजामेकां लोहित शुक्लकृष्णां बह्वीः प्रजाः सृजमानां स्वरूपाः।

        अजो हयेको जुषमाणोऽनुशेते जहाव्येनां भुक्तभोगामजोऽन्यः। (श्वेता॰उप॰ ४१५)

        प्रकृति, जीव और परमात्मा ये तीनों अज अर्थात् इनका जन्म कभी नहीं होता। प्रकृति रजोगुणयुक्त, सत्त्वगुणात्मक और कृष्ण अर्थात् तमोगुणी होने से उससे विभिन्न पदार्थों की उत्पत्ति होती है। इसे अजन्मा जीवात्मा भोग रहा है और दूसरी अविनाशी, जन्म मरण से रहित ईश्वर जीवों द्वारा भोग्य होने के कारण इसका परित्याग अर्थात् भोग से पृथक है।

      • Sir,

        I have heard of Purusha and Prakriti. Prakriti is superior to maya although they are used interchangeably . Somewhere I read in Shaiva tradition , Lord Shiva is the potential energy the “Purusha” and Goddess Sri Parvathy is the personification of prakriti (cosmic law).

        But primordial matter is Hiranyagarbhan (the cosmic seed or copy cat of previous universe) isn’t it? Not prakriti.

        Btw I can read Devanagiri script but with difficulty only.

        One quick question:- Adi Sankara says Brahmam (God) only has existence. Universe is illusion and not separate from God. In Advaita soul is exactly same as paramatma or para Brahmam (GOD).

        So just as your soul (counceousness) is the only existing thing but I considers your body , mind as you, following that principle, Lord can assume forms like Shiva and Vishnu. So Advaita does not contradict forms of God or neither idol worship for that matter.

        You may say God, matter and souls exists always only when time is a reality. If time is unreal then it holds no good to say all the three coexists.

        If some one say God created universe and universe is separate from God, then question arise what made God create something? Isn’t God not satisfied with what he had?

        So to me Adi Sankara’s advaita seems most logical. I don’t think he has said anything contradictory to Vedas. He was a person who held Sruti as unquestionable truth.

      • you can have a read through mundaka upanishad where it says “just like a spider projects spider web from it and returns it back to itself,just as the plants that grows on earth returns back to itself, …so does the universe comes out from Brahman(askhara Brahman) and then return back to itself”.

        infact in Gita, Krishnawho here personalises paramathma/Brahman, says that the eight basic elements (the five material elements which i am sure you would be knowing, mind, intellect,ego) (that makes up the whole universe as per hinduism) is a manifestation of His external natire.His inner nature is the soul that pervades everything.

    • good is god. Do good that is god. do not follow the particular religion or principles. that will bring many problems. Just believe in good. Good is god.

  2. Dear Abdu an Ex Muslim,
    I may sound immature, dogmatic, fundamentalist, narrow minded and a Hindu version of zakir naik.
    I did not listen to your audios- You are right on this. Sorry for that ,I don’t have that much patience and I am an arrogant man who believes that I am very clear on Hindu philosophy

    I am a traditional Hindu and little skeptic on neo Hindu translations of Vedas, Yoga sutras, Brahmasutra etc. For example Purusha is not spirit as you said , but LITERALLY it mean “Man” and in Vedic concept it means the cosmic man. Purusha sukta is a hymn in Yajur veda & rig veda dedicated to Virad Purusha the cosmic man, which is a form of God encompassing universe. His body parts are described as 14 worlds.

    Swadhyayam- I don’t know what meaning your acharya in Atlanta told you, but I know it is chanting holy Vedas, learning Vedas, teaching Vedas. I lack in it as you said. I agree. I do a little swadhyaya but not much.

    This is my understanding of the three major philosophies of Hinduism out of the six . Please check with your Guru and let me know.

    1. Meemamsa or purva meemamsa:- Based on Samhita (first half) of vedas.

    God:- Sometimes supreme God is referred “Indra” sometimes trimurtis (Indra,Surya and Agni), sometimes supreme God is “Purusha” (Virad purusha or viswaroopa of Vishnu in Gita). Some hymns praise Shiva/Rudra as supreme diety and some Vishnu.

    Philiosophy- soul attain salvation when all sins are washed away. Soul is self (I counceousness) . We should strictly follow varna (Brahmin, kshatriya, vysya and sudra) and ashrama (Brahmacharya, grihasthasrama, vanaprastha and samnyasa)

    Salvation for Brahmin :- By performing Vedic yajna one attain salvation. Sometimes referred to as heaven

    Do beleive in rebirths. Only when all sins are washed away we attain salvation.

    “Basically a Karma yoga philiosophy ”

    New age Meemamsa :-Arya samaj.

    • 2. Vedanta or uttara meemamsa:- Based on end part of Vedas (Brahmanam and aranyakam). Upanishads are from end parts of Veda.

      Subdivisions
      A) Advaita:- Great Guru AdiSankara.

      God) :- Para Brahmam =paramatma (soul of Durga, Shiva or Vishnu)= jeevatma (individual soul)
      God isonly existing absolute reality. creation is mayaand illussion.

      Philisophy:- soul attain salvation when all sins and good merits are washed away. Soul is self (I counceousness) . We should strictly follow varna (Brahmin, kshatriya, vysya and sudra) and ashrama (Brahmacharya, grihasthasrama, vanaprastha and samnyasa)

      Salvation for Brahmin:- Brahmin should perform rituals to attain mental purity and dicsipline.Once he completes all responsibility, he need to abandon karma and rituals. Worship of God’s forms (Vishnu,Shiva and Durga) without desires is important to get blessings to attain salvation.

      Why worship without desire???
      When a person worship Vishnu,Shiva and Durga with desires then good merits increase. They then have tolive in abodes of God; which is not real salvation.Once good merit punya also ceaseliving in God’s abode, they attain salvation.

      Control of mind from ego and desires is important in attaining salvation .This is real njana (knowledge). Once a person is devoid of almost al sins only then he can start nidithyasa (Brahmam conceousness) or nirvikalpa. Salvation is not stricty merger ofindividual soul with God but rather self realisation .Just realise your true nature (I am that Brahmam) completely and that’s it. This is a Njana Yoga philosophy.

      Many modern day swamis are actually fans of AdiSankara’s Vedanta

      b) Vishishtadvaita :-Of Ramanujacharya of Tamil Nadu. This philiosophy is grouped under “Vedanta” .Just replace para Brahmam with Lord Vishnu and it agrees to most of advaita.

      God:- Here para Brahmam= Lord Vishnu’s soul. But jeevatma are part of God (Lord Vishnu) not completely identical like advaita.

      continued……

      • Salvation philosophy:-Same as advaita but stay in Vykuntha is salvation. For advaita it is partial. In vishishtadvaita, salvation is considered merger with Vishnu.

        This is a bhakti yoga philosophy .Same equivalent Saktheya and Saiva philosophies exists.

        3. Yoga Philosophy of Patanjali.

        Great stress on control of desire (njana) to attain salvation. Agrees that soul should be free of sins. knowledgeble persons does not incur sins or goodmerits.

        But yoga philosophy too agrees one thing. Omission of karma (rituals and responsibility) is sin. You may ask your Guru.

        4,5,6 :- Nyaya , Sankhya and vysheshika has no fans nowadays.

        GENERIC LAW:-
        All these three philosophies agrees one thing. We must get rid of our sins. We must patiently burn our sins by suffering without complaints and still doing what is required without clean mind. All agrees that God’s grace is required to attain salvation. Just in the path they differ.

        NON HINDU ones:-
        Even Buddhist philosophy agrees in above generic law, just that in Buddhism there is no GOD as such. Sikhs also beleives in same GENERIC LAW, but they do have GOD and asks devotees to chant the holy name of God.

  3. @Vishal

    You believe in Moortipooja and you have read About prophet Muhammad I like to know

    What is your opinion about killing of Idolaters if they not accept prophet Muhammad as Messenger of God. (Read Quran 9.5)

    Do you Agree Veda are false because they have hundreds of of Mantra like God has no Image and never incarnate as humans (Na Tasya Partima Asti, Akayam, Aj Ek Paat) , Yog Darshan also false in which Sutra 1.23 to 1.29 Rishi Patanjali said God never incarnate as humans and always untouched from fruit of Prakariti.

    • I am seeing http://vjsingh.info/yoga1.html
      1:23

      23.ISHWARA PRANIDHAANA ANAADRAA
      ISHWARA- God; PRANIDHAANAADRAA – by ‘placing oneself’ in (God); by devotional dedication to; by self-surrender or resignation to (God); VA- or.
      Or by self-surrender to God.

      24. KLESHA KARMA VIPAAKA ASHAYAIR APARAMRISHTAH PURUSHA VISHESHA ESHWARAH.
      KLESHA- (by) afflictions; misery; cause of misery; KARMA – actions; activities; VIPAAKAA – maturation or fruition; SHAYAIR -(and) seed-germs or impressions of desires wherein desires sleep; APARAAMRISHTAH – untouched; PURUSHA – Spirit; and individual unit or centre of Divine Consciousness; VISHESHA – special; particular; ESHWAR – Ruler or Presiding Deity of a Brahmaanda or Solar system.
      Ishvara is a particular Purusha who is untouched by the afflictions of life, actions and the results and impressions produced by these actions.

      Ishwara as “Purusha”. The meaning of purusha is man. No where Patanjali in yoga sutra says God cannot incarnate . He mean God is not touched with emotions etc because God incarnation is aware of their true nature (para Brahmam or God conceousness ) and does not associate them to human body or mind. They know the nature of self.

      Now, Akayam, Aj Ek Paat- kaya meas shareer (body). Akayam mean bodiless I agree. God (nirguna brahmam) is actually bodiless but we cannot realise God. Hence God assumed body (Saguna Brahmam)

      Due to prakriti or maya we are associating God to body, God is aware of self coucneousness even if God assumes body.

      Btw advaita says our self is also God. Read my earlier posts.

      There is no mantra also to Nirguna Brahmam making nirguna worship almost impossible. We have only idol worhip left as option.

      @vishal,
      So you agree nabi of muslims realised God? What is charectiristics of a person realised true self (GOD)?

      • @Hindu

        Yog Darshan

        In Sutra 1.24 God is called Purush Vishesh because He never tests the fruits of Prakariti while every soul who takes body tests the fruit of Prakariti. That is why they are not God. Soul also Purush but God is Purushi Vishesh (Distinct Soul) He is untouched from affliction, Good and Bad Actions, Their Fruits, and Impression of these fruits. In Sutra 1.26 God is called Guru of All ancients and presents people. And what kind of Guru who is not bounded by time. All bodily Guru are bounded by time like Krishana, Vyas etc. So, they are not God. They have the time& date of birth and date of death. They were get destroyed by time. But Rishi Patanjali here discussing about the Guru (God) who is (कालेनानवच्छेदात् ) not conditioned by time. And We should meditate only on the God who is called (कालेनानवच्छेदात् ). Yog Sutra 1.27

        I advice you to read Rishi Vyas commentary on this. Here is link I am giving of a great scholar of Sanskrit and Darshan Grantha Acharya Vedshrami who teach in Atlanta (USA). Please listen him as he is explaining every Sutra in details with Vyas Commetnry on Patanjali Yog Darshan. For immediate understanding of current discussion regarding on God you can start Audio recording number 26 to 31.

        https://archive.org/details/Patanjali_YogaSutra

      • I agree to your statement that God (Here I mean Vishnu,Shiva or Durga) or incarnations are not touched by prakriti or maya . They are aware of absolute reality. But your statement that God’s soul is different from individual soul is incorrect.

        God= para brahmam = paramatma (soul of Vishnu, Shiva) = individual soul (our soul). This is advaita. Vedas are in accordance with Advaita. I already posted in multiple posts in detail.

        Only existing counceousness or reality is God. space, time , universes is all maya -illusion or prakriti. So there cannot be many I counceousness. The infinite jeevas are actually paramatma only.

        There are two types of karma. The sanchita karma and prarabdha karma. The total good merits and bad sins of a person is sanchita karma and what we consume in this birth is prarabdha. We need to burn out all good merits and bad. Only then we attain salvation.

        Lord Krishna incarnated not to burn out karmas but for serving a purpose. He does not have any good merits or sins. So he does not associate himself with body and mind like us. He had complete knowledge and blissful (enlightened being) .So he is worshipped as God.

        You said “God is untouched from affliction, Good and Bad Actions, Their Fruits, and Impression of these fruits” I perfectly agree. Lord Krishna is untouched from affliction, Good and Bad Actions, Their Fruits, and Impression of these fruits

        Here fruit means karma phala (karma fruit or result of karma). No sins or good attached to karma of enlightened person. Adi Sankaracharya says this.

        You keep saying we must meditate God. Tell all of us how to do this. How can you concentrate on God. Whatever comes in your mind will not be God as nirguna Brahmam is beyond senses and mind.

      • @Hindu

        Whatever you wrote made me recall my immaturity when I was also on the same platform and talking always like this all the time as you talking. “Swadhaya” is must to know supreme knowledge. You have lack of this. I know fully you have not listened any Audios of which Link I had given to you in my previous comment. Your most of ideas as you wrote above have been thoroughly refuted. Once again I will wish from you to listen them before writing me again otherwise a lot of time of my will be also lost with you.

        I wrote to you

        I advice you to read Rishi Vyas commentary on this. Here is link I am giving of a great scholar of Sanskrit and Darshan Grantha Acharya Vedshrami who teach in Atlanta (USA). Please listen him as he is explaining every Sutra in details with Vyas Commetnry on Patanjali Yog Darshan. For immediate understanding of current discussion regarding on God you can start Audio recording number 26 to 31.

        https://archive.org/details/Patanjali_YogaSutra

  4. JAY SHREE KRISHNA TO ALL,

    Myself Vishal, I read whole your conversations, And I have come to the point that,
    1). I have read about Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W), Himself was very kind, Pure and open minded & He had
    realized the GOD (Allah). I heartily respect him.
    2). Also I would like to say I have read about his life, How he did darshan of Divinity by riding on Al Buraaq, And
    How he get the divine knowledge, Peace & strength from Allah for Prosperity & Salvation of Mankind. This is
    very true and divine.
    3). But looking towards the Hinduism history there were 24 incarnation of GOD himself had taken birth on this
    earth to save their devotees from evil & to give them salvation.
    4). All of incarnations bring the supreme power & divinity with them from their real home (Dhaam) , By doing the
    divine acts they give the divine happiness to their devotees & took them in their dham after their passing from
    this worldly earth.
    5). After their departure (GOD’s Incarnation’s) from this world, the devotees started to pray them in temples to feel
    their presence within them with Idol worshiping. And by this ritual the devotees could feel GOD’s blessing over
    them.
    6). GOD himself has said that he is manifest in eight types of idols and ninth saint (Real Saadhu). So that’s why we
    believe in Murtipooja, Although the Idol is mortal and finite material the GOD exists within it.
    It is our faith.

    For any doubt or clarity about murtipooja anybody can ask to me.

  5. Jazib,
    No you didn’t answer. Answer here. You are inviting everyone to debate on islam , but as soon as we ask questions on islam you start Hindu bashing which are not the answers to questions asked.

    Again i repeat my questions. Say yes or no

    1. Pitckall renowed english translator of quran said that Allah is “in” heaven not “over” heaven for 67.16. See below. Yusuf ali and all english translators says in heaven only. Now modern islamists are translating it as over heaven. This proves that muslims shamelessly reinterpret quran. This is a violation of quran itself as Quran says that it is crystal clear (not ambigous)and any dumb can understand it. Verily if arabs of 7th century can understand it, any human should be able to understand it

    067.016 Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed ? – Pickthall.

    2. As Allah is accessible by ear, to humans (As in the case of musa nabi talking to allah) why God is not accessible to eyes or any other senses?

    3. What you concentrate while praying?? Mere lip service is enough? – You said zakat is better than wasting milk over lingam and all, but did’nt answer my question merely saying i pray thee to God without concentrating anything is enough? Say yes or no

    4. allah is not beyond time as heaven and hell will not be destroyed per quran. time has no end per quran. So does universe (heaven and hell)– will not end per quran. Qayamat is end of earth only according to quran.

    How can rooh sit in qabr and get another body on judgement day. How this body will last forever in heaven or hell. Is it fair for Allah to send some one eternally to hell for finite crimes he did?

    answer in logical terms and don’t resort to attacking other religions if you can defend islam

  6. regarding Veda, Veda does not say that any dumb can understand it like Quran. So Zakir naik and you can’t understand it. Do not quote from english translations of Vedas . Only two commentaries of Vedas exists today. Both are in sanskrit.

    Sayana Bhashya- For Samhita part
    Adi Sankara Bhashya – for Brahmana and aranyaka (Vedanta) part. Anybody criticising Vedas should quote from english translations of these two. Then only i will accept

  7. Jazib,

    Again and again you are proving that muslim infidels and unbeleivers will lie and deceive for islam.
    Quran says Allah is in heaven. below is from quran

    67:16 Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed ?

    Pitckall renowed english translator of quran said that Allah is in heaven not “over” heaven. See below. Yusuf ali and all english translators says in heaven only. Now modern islamists are translating it as over heaven. This proves that muslims shamelessly reinterpret quran. This is a violation of quran itself as Quran says that it is crystal clear (not ambigous)and any dumb can understand it. Verily if arabs of 7th century can understand it, any human should be able to understand it

    067.016 Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed ?

    Reminder:- below questions are not answered yet

    As Allah is accessible by ear, to humans (As in the case of musa nabi talking to allah) why God is not accessible to eyes or any other senses?

    What you concentrate while praying?? Mere lip service is enough? – You said zakat is better than wasting milk over lingam and all, but did’nt answer my question merely saying i pray thee to God without concentrating anything is enough? Say yes or no

    allah is not beyond time as heaven and hell will not be destroyed per quran. time has no end per quran. So does universe – will not end per quran. Qayamat is end of earth only according to quran. I posted lot of questions on your stupid soul concept and after life concept where are the answers ???

    Your analogies are indeed laughable. When Vedanta says God alone is absolute reality and everything else is illusion, this will not negate the sentence as , the sentence itself is clear – Anything other than GOD including the words you hear (sentence) is illusion. It says that God alone is absolute…

  8. -Saroj
    You are again Repeating Nonsense. Come to my account on Google +.

    Allah is beyond space and time and again it’s for unbiased reader. Your own interpretation will not be accepted in Matters of Qur’an and hadiths.

    You said You didn’t Understand what DAYANAND meant. don’t worry I will explain, DAYANAND AND AGNIVEER SAID ISHWAR DIDN’T CREATED US.

    Now you claim otherwise to your ancestors ideology that’s your problem. You think you understood your scriptures better than them.

    You give the reason that upanishads and Vedas claim otherwise but DAYANAND explained that clearly and so does agniveer. Here’s what he said

    DAYANAND:
    Moolshankar wrote in Satyarth Prakāsh Ch.1 pg. 5 (quoting Kaivalya Upanishad) –

    “He is called Brahma – the Creator of the Universe…”
    ”The word Creator used Is in the SENSE OF MAKER as according to Vedic Philosophy there is no such thing as creation or the evolution of something out of nothing.“

    And agniveer made it Clear thereafter. So don’t lie here.

    Regarding your Ishwar who can’t been seen.

    Rig Veda 1:70:1
    1. NAUGHT is to-day, to-morrow naught. Who comprehends the mystery?
    We must address ourselves unto another’s thought, and lost is then the hope we formed.

    This verse not in the least Shows him as timeless. Only Qur’an makes it clear by saying “Originator” which is Scientific also.

    Proof’s Hindu God a mere entity :

    “PERSONS, WHO ARE EXCELLENT LIKE GOD , noble like other good people, equal towards all, affectionate towards all, respectable, well balanced, and possessors of worldly objects, succeed in life.”

    – [Yajurveda Chapter 17, verse 81, pg-188, Tr. Devi Chand]

    The word LIKE disqualifies Ishwar on Qur’anic and Biblical backgrounds as

    Qur’an 112:4
    There is NOTHING LIKE UNTO HIM.

    Isaiah 40:18
    To whom can you compare God?

    The Uncreated, timeless spaceless God can’t be LIKE Created time and Space bound…

    • oh my god.
      yajur veda 17/18 is a metaphor of good quality of human beings.

      rig veda 1/170 dosent make himtimeless are you nuts? the very first satatement says “unto him there is no today or twomorrow”.today and tomorrow and yesterday are references based on the flow of time.the very fact that rig veda says “there is no yesterday and twomorrow” itself proves that the supreme being is beyond the hold of time.
      now you are blatantly ignoring the facts directly from the verses.

      • lets turn back to what you said about rig veda 1/170/1

        you said that Rig Veda1/170 does not mean that God is beyond time. how come?
        the verse clearly says that “NAUGHT is to-day, to-morrow naught. Who comprehends the mystery?
        We must address ourselves unto another’s thought, and lost is then the hope we formed….”

        the “it” here refers to the Supreme Being.the spreme being has no “today” or “twomorrow”.
        today and twomorrow are present and future respectively. only something that os bound to time will have “today” and “twomorrow”, or, the feeling of past,present and future associated with it.here the verse says tha the supreme being is not “twomorrow” or “today” we cannot speak of it in terms of present(today) or future(tomorrow), since “it”(supreme being) is beyond time constrain.

        what made you say such a blunt statement?
        i cam substantiate this with more references from bhagavad githa, where arjuna sees past,present and future in krishna simultaneously, thus again substantiating that He is beyond time dimension and that he has no distinction between past,present and future(since, if there were to be a distinction between past, present and future like what we have, then he would be bound to time constrain like us).
        now see where your blunt illogical statements stand.

        and by the way, you have not given a shred of evidence/argument to disprove that allah’s face is not bound t space time and not even have you proved,that the sttatement of the hadiths is to be taken as metaphor,

        so sorry, your claims don’t hold any water.
        anyway, i have responded to our other debate/discussion.
        so sorry, your claims don’t hold any water.

      • and allah beyond space and tme, from our discussion, has not given any unbiased reader to come to a conclusion that he is beyond space and time or not.
        so,again sorry your claims don’t hold any water.

  9. 2jazib, again as usual you wont read the above coment completely, lie that you read it and sprew out some “refutation”!awesom!what an idea sirji?!
    anyway, dosnt matter,
    what i have written is not for you, but for an unbiased reader to judge.let them be the judge as to who is playing and giving irrelevant comments thinking it to be true and who is not.
    -rgards,
    Saroj, your pal!!!!!!

    • as for what dayanand saraswathi meant, i did not understand it completely, but what the upanisads, bhagavad githa and vedas(i am taking a verse from rig veda to substantiate my point further), tell a different story fom wat we infer directly from statements of dayanand saraswathi as above.i have to look further into it, but for the time being my above post would do the work .

  10. again you have skipped the real point. if what prophet muhammed said is that you would see the face of Allah, then the face is within space and time.
    indeed all you see is within space and time(all u see with a form).
    what you see in dream is also within space even though it is not real n u cant touch it.

    point #2 of your is senseless.

    parking aside what yo have written by reference from qur’an, let me go to what you sated about God in hinduism. first , in hinduism, God is beyond sapce and time. this is directly stated in rig veda 1/170/1

    In the Rig Veda there are 5 hymns constituting an important dialogue between Lord Indra and Sage Agastya that reflects the significance of traversing the evolutionary path of consciousness, that seems to serve as a crucial pre-requisite to understanding the true nature of the Supreme Absolute Reality (God).

    The verses exemplify how sage Agastya, by the sheer force of his thoughts is breaking through the barriers of his mind, reaching the realm of God without first being developed as a fully functional being in all his levels of consciousness. The eagerness to experience God gets the better of sage Agastya and his senses and he refuses to progressively surrender to the stepping stone (which in this case refers to Lord Indra) in his quest for God. At this point, sage Agastya gets pushed back by Indra who does not allow him to proceed to the realm of God.

    Indra says-that which is beyond time and space (God) cannot be known by that which is in time and space (Agastya and other mortals like us).

    Indra goes on to explain that it is the progressive transcendence (of ego-consciousness) through divine activities that will take a mortal towards the immortal truth. Sage Agastya thenceforth realizes his folly, surrenders his will to Indra and goes on to execute his mandated activities through Indra.

    1. Indra: It is not now, nor is It tomorrow; who knoweth that which is Supreme and Wonderful? It has motion and action in…

    • 2. Agastya: Why dost thou seek to smite us, O Indra? The Maruts are thy brothers. By them accomplish perfection; slay us not in our struggle.

      3. Indra: Why, O my brother Agastya, art thou my friend, yet settest thy thought beyond me? For well do I know how to us thou willest not to give thy mind.

      4. Indra: Let them make ready the altar, let them set Agni in blaze in front. It is there, the awakening of the consciousness to Immortality. Let us two extend for thee thy effective sacrifice.

      5. Agastya: O Lord of substance over all substances of being, thou art the master in force! O Lord of Love over the powers of love, thou art the strongest to hold in status! Do thou, O lndra, agree with the Maruts, then enjoy the offerings in the ordered method of the Truth.

      now coming to “raw materials as eternal”.
      fro that if you read the mundaka upanishads, it clearly states, “like a spider taking out spider web from itself and then withdrawing to itself, or like plans from earth and then returning back to itself,or like hairs projecting from human body and then returning to itself, similarly the whole material manifestation comes from that ONE and then return back to itself”. if you read the bhagavad githa, krishna(who here represents the supreme being) says that the “whole cosmic manifestation is a display of his external energy(feature).” and that all souls are manifestation of his inner/spiritual energy(feature), similar to the concept of life being the “breath of God”.
      this is the concept of universe, or creator/creatio in hinduism, not as you presume as the universe eternally coexisting a separate entity from God.

      and please, complete your half written statement.

      also please go to your email, i have sent you the link explaining atharva veda 12/5/62 &54.

      thus, In hinduism, in the eariest Vedas (Rig Veda) onwards, the concept of God as beyond space and time is directly mentioned.

      • 2. Agastya: Why dost thou seek to smite us, O Indra? The Maruts are thy brothers. By them accomplish perfection; slay us not in our struggle.

        3. Indra: Why, O my brother Agastya, art thou my friend, yet settest thy thought beyond me? For well do I know how to us thou willest not to give thy mind.

        4. Indra: Let them make ready the altar, let them set Agni in blaze in front. It is there, the awakening of the consciousness to Immortality. Let us two extend for thee thy effective sacrifice.

        5. Agastya: O Lord of substance over all substances of being, thou art the master in force! O Lord of Love over the powers of love, thou art the strongest to hold in status! Do thou, O lndra, agree with the Maruts, then enjoy the offerings in the ordered method of the Truth.

        now coming to “raw materials as eternal”.
        fro that if you read the mundaka upanishads, it clearly states, “like a spider taking out spider web from itself and then withdrawing to itself, or like plans from earth and then returning back to itself,or like hairs projecting from human body and then returning to itself, similarly the whole material manifestation comes from that ONE and then return back to itself”. if you read the bhagavad githa, krishna(who here represents the supreme being) says that the “whole cosmic manifestation is a display of his external energy(feature).” and that all souls are manifestation of his inner/spiritual energy(feature), similar to the concept of life being the “breath of God”.
        this is the concept of universe, or creator/creatio in hinduism, not as you presume as the universe eternally coexisting a separate entity from God.

        and please, complete your half written statement.

        also please go to your email, i have sent you the link explaining atharva veda 12/5/62 &54.

        thus, In hinduism, in the eariest Vedas (Rig Veda) onwards, the concept of God as beyond space and time is directly mentioned.

  11. -Saroj Again my Point’s are not addressed, the topic is not whether what you see in dream is true or false BUT WHETHER YOU CAN SEE A THING WHICH IS NOT IN SPACE.

    Since in dream which see in a dream which is not in space similarly you will see God who is not in space.

    From your Point’s you are giving a hint that Hindus believe that God can’t be seen.

    Anyway just provide commentries. If it’s on net, cut paste it here.

    I Quoted Prophet’s companions on the issue still you repeat the same. When Qur’an clearly tells God is out of space and Time,I don’t know why are you trying to force it in space.

    Hindu God is time bound as Hindus believe God is everywhere.

    Qur’an clearly says
    Qur’an 6:101
    He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth!

    Time started from big bang AND SINCE GOD ORIGINATED THE CREATION, THEREFORE HE CREATED TIME AND WAS BEFORE TIME WHICH SHOWS HE IS INDEPENDENT OF TIME AND SPACE.

    It’s not Hindu Ishwar who didn’t created anything like a mere idol (maybe that’s why you set up idols for him) as both create nothing.

    Dayanand :
    Says ISHWAR DIDN’T CREATED US AND WE ARE UNCREATED
    “The prakriti, the soul and God, all of them, are uncreated. They are the cause of the whole universe.”

    – [Satyarth Prakash Ch. 8, pg.244 Tr. Dr.Chiranjiva Bhardawaja]

    Agniveer :
    Q: Did Ishwar not create Nature as well?

    A: NO, Nature or ‘raw material’ is eternal (beginningless and endless) like Ishwar.

    Qur’an 7:191

    “Do they call besides God who CREATE NOTHING ”

    Or in other place
    Qur’an 16:20
    Do do call besides GOD those WHO CREATE NOTHING BUT ARE THEMSELVES CREATED.

    Your Misery is understood.
    Hindu God is time bound and space bound like Humans

    “Persons, WHO ARE EXCELLENT LIKE GOD , noble like other good people, equal towards all, affectionate towards all, respectable, well balanced, and possessors of worldly objects, succeed in life.”

  12. -Saroj
    Your lies are Expose and d you ignored everything.

    See your lies
    (2)”our sense perception at any stage allows us to perceive only tha which is within space,we cannot see anything beyond spac and time.”

    RESPONSE :
    We can see dreams which is beyond space and Similar you will see God who is beyond space.
    THERE IS A HELL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VISION AND SEEING.
    You neglected
    1. That’s a totally DIFFERENT EXISTENCE
    2. By your Logic God can never be seen
    3. It’s not seeing like you see other’s

    “If you want i can quote more and more scholars who says the same.”

    Response : I know you can Quote but Quote a Scholar which says ALLAHS FACE IS IN SPACE. JUST A SINGLE REPUTED MUSLIM SCHOLAR.

    Every scholar understands seeing of face as a vision and not A PHYSICAL FACE and it too again based on Qur’an 6:103 Qur’an 112:4
    And MOREOVER ALLAHS FACE JUST SHOWS HIS PRESENCE. For Instance Lord said Everything on earth will perish except his face.

    Again it’s metaphorical. His Face is not on Earth and too are separate. Lord just meant HIS presence is Forever.

    Qur’an 55:26-27
    26. Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish.
    27. And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honour will abide forever.

    Now LET’S EXPOSE YOU AND SEE WHETHER COMPANIONS BELIEVED THE FACE TO BE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING OR INDICATING DIFFERENT THINGS.

    Commentries :
    Ibn Kateer
    Ash-Sha`bi said, “When you have recited,
    (Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish.) do not stop, continue reading,

    (And the Face of your Lord Dhul-Jalal wal-Ikram will remain forever.)” This Ayah is similar to Allah’s statement,
    (Everything will perish save His Face.)(28:88) In this Ayah, Allah describes His Noble Face as being “Dhul-Jalal wal-Ikram” , INDICATING THAT HE IS WORTHY OF BEING REVERED , and thus, never defied; and obeyed, and thus, never disobeyed,

    So stop poor Reasoning. No scholar ever interpreted in your way.

    Your unknown Scholars…

    • see again the hollownes of your “refutation”.

      dreams are not REAL, they are what you see when yur close your eyes,
      but the vision of Allah is real and not a dream.you see allah before your eyes on the day of judgement as a real being not as a dream.
      DONT TRY TO MAKE A FOOL OUT OF ME, AND A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF.

      the lord’s face is NOT metaphorical. you yourself said that “vision of God is a blessing”..you yourself in a previous comment said tht the vision is true and not metaphorical.
      and i gave you links to the video where islamic scholar clarifies that the face is real quoting the example of the saying and experience of prophet muhammed.
      if you want, i can give you more videos from multiple scholars.’

      the commentary pertains to a specific ayah, BUT there are statement from prophet muhammed himself stating(and stated by scholars) that Allah’s face is NOT METAPHORICAL BUT LITERAL.
      its funny to see ho you contradict your own statments and jump from one assertion to another.
      ANYWAY, AN UNBIASED READER WHO READS OUR WHOLE DISCUSSION WOULD UNDERSTAND YOUR STAND/POSITION AND MY STAND/POSITION.you might not undrstand, or even acknowledge the stupidity and double standars behind certain comments(oh, “refutations”!) you posted ,dosent matter.

      the links to interpretation by other scolars, i tries to post it here, but due to comment moderaion, it somehow got disappeared.
      anyway, i have sent it to your email.

      • and i urge you to read the hole hymn atharva veda 12/5 and then comment on a specific verse. your assertion that you searched for the scholars’ interpretation i mentioned is a bloody WHITE LIE,since it is easily available all over net.

        anyway, again say to you, he conetxt of the verse is the law(manifested a the cow”) killing the kshatriya who opress and take law in hands. the previous verses confirms it(verse 46 and other previous verses).and if you care to continue reading, the verse actally describes the “cow” killing the kshathriyas. i urge you to read the whole hymn again and again, but you are not doing it, and holding on to the commentaries,ufortunately gven by “scholars” who projected their own ideas/assertions to the meaning of the verse, by ripping the verse from the context and taking it to extreme, based on their own ideas.
        this can be easily understood if you put the verse within the context. for that you have to read the whole hymn and i have explained it in the fist comment of mine @ you immediately after you quoted this verse.
        now read the interpretation above and tell me where i am wrong. until you come to that point of reading my posts, im giving you least attention(even if i respond like this).
        so read it and then comment.

  13. -Saroj. I want COMMENTRY
    I couldn’t find your unions scholars COMMENTRY anywhere.
    Plus no has has claimed otherwise to Arya Samaj Commentries, they are not blind that they haven’t seen the context. So it’s about killing infidels.

    I already said, seeing something does not need to be in space.

    I talk about dreams which has no space.

    Similarly God will not be seen like how you see other People, that’s a totally DIFFERENT EXISTENCE, that will be A VISION RATHER THAN SEEING GOD LIKE SEEING ANY NORMAL MAN.

    You generalise poor results.

    When I Quoted Qur’an
    6:103 “No Vision can Grasp him but his grasp is over all Visions”
    That had a meaning I. E you can’t see God like you see a Physical thing (but you ignored my Point)

    You even ignored Qur’an 112:4
    “There is nothing like him ”

    When nothing is like him, so should he not be completely different OUT OF SPACE UNCOMPARABLE.

    You are restricting a Particular Hadith or verse and not letting the other parts speak for it.

    For instance, if Qur’an says Don’t commit shirk.
    You as a PAGAN are not allowing other Part’s of Qur’an speak what it basically is.

    Qur’an makes it Clear That God is beyond time and Space but you took a thing out of Context and then are not allowing other Parts to speak for it.

    Apply your logic to Atharva Veda 12.5.62 first.

    It’s not Ishwar who first according to Pagan Hindus was everywhere and now is out of space and time.

    • i gave the commentator whose interpretation is worth reading to some extend.
      swami ramswarup.

      morover if you had cared to look into the atharva veda hymn(12/5/54,62),the hymn is not at all aimed at belivers being asked to kill unbelivers,but the law manifested as the cow killing the opressor and stealer(khathriya).
      commentators takes their interpretation to extremes and this is what happened to kshemkarandas’s cmmentary.
      because he took it an extreme of asking belivers to kill unbelivers,when the context of the hymn was cow killing the ksathriya, i again and again recommend you to read the hymn before asking for commentaries.

      next about allah and quran .
      i did not ignore any verse from the quran. but the video i posted(whose link i gave to you), the scholar clarly quotes a hadith where allah shall reveal his face(wich is covered by veil of light) to belivers on the day of judgement.
      now, look,
      (!)we shall see the face o allah
      (2)our sense perception at any stage allows us to perceive only tha which is within space,we cannot see anything beyond spac and time.
      thus, allah’s face is witihin space and time based on logical deduction.
      coming to the verses you quoted,it is true that no vision can graspe him, but it is also said(as quoted by many scholars) that he shall reveal his face and we shall see it.if you want i can quote more and more scholars who says the same.
      since we shall see it, it is within space/time.hence, what it all mean is that allah has a face that we cannot grasp at the present moment(might be it is beyond what we can think of ,or is covered by the “veil of light”, or is not there within our imagination),but the face is surely within space/time.

      i have applied enough logic to atharva veda 12/5/62 verse before itself, by quoting the whole hymn and putting the verse in the context. i have posted it in my first comment in this section.

      so sorry,your comments are unsatisfactry

      • in one discussion about universe related to humn body in Vedas,
        you too did not allow other parta to speak of it when i quoted other scriptures,now look at your double standard. why should i even listen to you?

        secondly, when we look into a concept, one should integrate all that is availabe associated with it.that one hadith is enough to prove the “god” in your concept is bound to space and time(which you even unintentionally agreed to in the just previous cmment of yours)

        in the light of what prophet muhammed said, the verse of the holy quran means that God has a form that is not perceivable to us now, but is bound to space and time. the verses you quoted dosent directly imply that God is beyond space . the verses only says no vision grasps him, not directly telling that God is beyond space.now looking at what prophet said, the verse does not mean that God is beyond space,but only that his form is not revealed to us now and cant be grasped now(since it is covered with the veil of goodness and light), but defenitey within space.

        also, i have send the link to your email adress. since it is not getting published here due to some problems, i have sent it to your email id.

  14. -Hindu
    Stop barking Pagan. The verse you Quoted says ALLAH is above heavens. This doesn’t prove anything because Allah is above everything. It’s formal way of saying he is above everything.

    See Commentary on Qur’an 67:16
    Ibn kateer
    ﴾ Here Allah says,
    (Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you, and then it should quake)

    meaning, that it would move
    back and forth, and be disrupted.

    (Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not send against you a Hasib)

    meaning, a wind containing gravel that will strike you, as Allah says in another Ayah,

    (Do you then feel secure that He will not cause a side of the land to swallow you up, or that He will not send against you a violent sandstorm Then, you shall find no trustee.) ﴿17:68﴾ And similarly, here Allah threatens them with His statement,

    (Then you shall know how has been My warning.) meaning, `how is My admonition and what will happen to those who disregard and reject it.’ Then Allah says,
    (And indeed those before them rejected,) meaning, from the previous nations and the old generations that have passed. Then Allah says,
    (then how terrible was My reproach) meaning, `how was My rebuke of them and my punishment of them.’ Meaning, it was great, severe and painful.

    Your lip service was thrown to dustbin because in Islam Zakat is Farm, Helping Farz, exhorting people to truth is Farz etc etc.
    Farz means if you don’t do it you’ll be punished.

    It’s not wasting milk over some Linga. Most Hindu practices are wastefull.

    -Saroj
    Provide Authoritative COMMENTRY, your words doesn’t matter here. Own interpretation is not needed.

    Joke: you said if WE SEE SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE IN SPACE.

    Really what we see in Dreams, in which space does that exist.

    Seeing GOD IS VISION WHICH BLESSED SOULS WILL BE GIVEN ON JUDGEMENT DAY and you are proving ISHWAR CAN’T BE SEE which is true as he doesn’t exist.

    And…

    • first, i did not give my own commentary,the verse could be understood from the context by reading the hymn. tht i’v been telling you fo many many times but yu simply ignore it.go and read.hthe verse talks about the law kiling the kshathriya.
      comentators generally take the vese to an extreme lvel in their interpretation,and that is what happened in kshemkarandas’s commentary’s case.because the verse,if you read the whole hymn and put in context,dosent ask the “bliver to kill unbeliver”.
      if you still want a commentary(authoritative one0 better read swami ramswarup’s commentary. i told you this also.but again you neglect it.

      there is no “joke” here. we do not see allah in dream on day of judgement.we see him in reality before us as per the hadith.and wnything we see within space is to be bound to space/time.thus,as per the hadith,allah is bound to sopace and time.

      • @jazib
        yeah, the moment any “blessed soul” is given the vivion of God on the day of judgement, he becomes space bound.i dont care wether he is giving it to momins or kaffirs, but th very fact that any “soul” can see God, He is within space time continuum.

  15. if the last statement was aimed at atharva veda verse you quoted,then please refer the comentary by swami ramswarup.the verse actually deals with the cow(manifsttion of the law,revealed to the sages as the Vedic verses) destroying/punishing the kshtathriya who opressed the brahmana whorevealed the “cow”.you can understand it directly by reading the hymn itself.that is why,kshemkarandas’s intepretation of the hymn as asking belivers to kill unbelivers is flawed,since the verse talks about the law itself(which is revealed as Veda vani and manifested as the cow) itself becomes the punitive force and destroys the kshathriya whom opressed the brahmana.swami ramswarup’s commentary to yhis verse does more justice,since it takes the actual context into account.in anywhere in the whole hymn,no one wh belives in the ved is asked to kill the unbeliver.

    coming to Allah’ paradox,

    the vieos i gave claerly suggest that Allah has a literal face and prophet muhammed’s statement in hadiths clearly states allah’s face is covered with th veil of light(as he saw it) and that it shall be reveaed to us on the day of judgement.this cannot be nothing other that literal face.and if we can see something,then that should be within space time.and since,according to muammed prophet’s sayings,we can see the face(even though the face cannot be compared to anything created by Allah, it is still within space time bound.i have given the link,please refer that and then solve this paradox.
    for,God beyond space and time within Vedas,you can refer to the first verse of Rig Veda10/173.

  16. -Saroj
    I already Said it’s not Allah’s day. It says (a day) and not Allah’s day.

    It’s simply about RELATIVITY. You didn’t read my previous comment’s also. for removing confusion I Quoted ibn kateer, he too and all commentries which I know of doesn’t make a least hint on this NOR IS ANY HADITH THAT WOULD SUPPORT IT.

    It just talk of RELATIVITY. Because
    Time does go SLOWER for an astronaut in space than on Earth
    And that’s what we see above “He arranges (every) affair from the HEAVENS TO EARTH , then it (affair) will GO UP to him, in one Day, the space whereof is a THOUSAND YEARS of your reckoning (i.e. reckoning of our present worlds time).

    If you would have bothered to read Qur’an, you would have found RELATIVITY at other places also eg

    Qur’an 23:112-114
    “He will say, ‘HOW MANY YEARS DID YOU TARRY ON THE EARTH ?’ They will say, ‘We TARRIED THERE FOR A DAY OR PART OF A DAY . Ask those able to count!’ He will say, ‘You ONLY TARRIED THERE FOR A LITTLE while if you did but know!”

    And please provide commentries for justification.

    • Keep your lies away Jazib…

      Quran says Allah is in heaven. below is from quran

      67:16 Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed ?

      Tell me the meaning

      Reminder:- below questions are not answered yet

      As Allah is accessible by ear, to humans (As in the case of musa nabi talking to allah) why God is not accessible to eyes or any other senses?

      What you concentrate while praying?? Mere lip service is enough?

      allah is not beyond time as heaven and hell will not be destroyed per quran. time has no end per quran. So does universe – will not end per quran. Qayamat is end of earth only according to quran. I posted lot of questions on your stupid soul concept and after life concept where are the answers ???

  17. I wanted to reply Suman but by mistake I pasted her comment again.

    Thanks Suman!

    Rather than reading Quran/Puran/Bible or any other book of these types, enjoy star trek movies 🙂

    • I agree with you Kevin. Watching Star trek is much more fun than reading old religious books.

      My comment was from a paper that “all religious books are nonsense”. It will be published soon.

      Here is rest of the content:

      The research paper also came to the conclusion that reward/punishment religions, as control systems, were losing their grip on most of the population of the world and only a few die-hard fanatics and delusional maniacs were carrying on with the flame of idiocy.

      “The game is up for all religions, how long can this sham carry on, with their ridiculous outdated ceremonies? The priests are deceivers, and they need to come up with some pretty radical solutions to their thousand year old magic trick. People aren’t as dumb or easily swayed as they used to be thousands of years ago, they actually have reasoning powers and can see through the utter nonsense of organised control systems like religion.”

      The problem for the world’s political leaders, is that slowly, humans who were controlled for so many years by fictitious writings, may suddenly lose their controlled ‘faith’. This could be quite dangerous, because it would mean that these people would suddenly wake up and realise that they have been fooled for so long by being communally hypnotised.

      “We must ensure that the people who have been fooled for so long by fictitious belief systems utilised to control humans do not get too angry when they realise that what they believe in is nonsense written by humans utilising human created language. This could be dangerous for society, so we must either let them carry on believing their fiction or try to somehow support them when they realise the truth,” Dr Sanreso said.

  18. -Saroj
    Just by saying COMMENTRY is wrong doesn’t make it. First you have to show other authoritative Scholars COMMENTRY like that of Arya Samaj and then Clearify Arya Samajs Commentries as it clearly talks of Infidels.

    2. No Muslim scholar will say Allah’s face is Literal.
    It’s not a face like Humans
    You totally neglected what I said. Even the Qur’anic verses on it. I refuted your time theory also but you didn’t. The verses you are talking about actually talk of RELATIVITY.

    Let’s see you’re lies. Does Allah Compare times or does he just say how much of your time???

    [032:005] He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth, then it (affair) will go up to Him, in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years of your reckoning (i.e. reckoning of our present worlds time).(Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan)

    No where is Comparison. It say for the AFFAIR TO ASCENT = 1000 Years of Yours and not 1 Day = 1000 as you lied. See commentries NOT A SINGLE HINT ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID.

    Ibne Kathir Commented

    This is like the Ayah, ﴿اللَّهُ الَّذِى خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَـوَتٍ وَمِنَ الاٌّرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الاٌّمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ﴾

    (It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof. The command descends between them, ) (65:12) Deeds are raised up to the place of recording above the lowest heaven.

    2nd:
    “The angels and the spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years”.[Al-Qur’an 70:4]

    Again ANGELS ASCENT = 50000
    AND not 1 Day of Allah = 50000

    It’s talking about Human time, no where is Comparison.

    • Jazib,

      There is no Allah or God or any other mythological creature living in heaven and controlling each and every subject on earth. All religions, gods, allah etc are created by human beings. There is no heaven or hell somewhere in sky.

      Scientists at the Institute of Historical Research have finally released their findings after five years of dedicated research.

      “Just think for one second, if ‘God’ or a ‘messenger of God’ had written that particular religious book/bible, how come the writings only occur within a very limited period in human history? Also, consider the fact, that a human writing on a piece of paper, or a few pieces of paper, is not the word of ‘God’. If they were really written by a universal God or entity, the books would not be limited to some pre-medievel costume drama but would encompass all universality, history, the future and science. Language is something created by man, not an all-seeing, all encompassing entity. God would presumably be universal and timeless as well as all-knowing, as is the universe, therefore these man-written books and scriptures, are just that, man-written linguistically created nonsense used to control men and women thousands of years ago. Why would ‘God’ write anything anyway? One must consider the fact that, even now, there are religious zealots and ordinary people still entrenched in a control belief system that is so far removed from reality that it borders on madness. There is no rational or scientific way that organised religions can have a modicum of truth or factual reality because of the very reason that these books are entombed in the time that they were written. These books should therefore simply be viewed as limited parables and historical fiction, as well as a lesson in how millions of people can be so easily controlled.”

    • Jazib,

      There is no Allah or God or any other mythological creature living in heaven and controlling each and every subject on earth. All religions, gods, allah etc are created by human beings. There is no heaven or hell somewhere in sky.

      Just think for one second, if ‘God’ or a ‘messenger of God’ had written that particular religious book, quran/bible or any other book, how come the writings only occur within a very limited period in human history? Also, consider the fact, that a human writing on a piece of paper, or a few pieces of paper, is not the word of ‘God’. If they were really written by a universal God or entity, the books would not be limited to some pre-medievel costume drama but would encompass all universality, history, the future and science. Language is something created by man, not an all-seeing, all encompassing entity. God would presumably be universal and timeless as well as all-knowing, as is the universe, therefore these man-written books and scriptures, are just that, man-written linguistically created nonsense used to control men and women thousands of years ago. Why would ‘God’ write anything anyway? One must consider the fact that, even now, there are religious zealots and ordinary people still entrenched in a control belief system that is so far removed from reality that it borders on madness. There is no rational or scientific way that organised religions can have a modicum of truth or factual reality because of the very reason that these books are entombed in the time that they were written. These books should therefore simply be viewed as limited parables and historical fiction, as well as a lesson in how millions of people can be so easily controlled.

    • i have explained as to why the commentary is wrong. i have explained it in detail.
      the hymn talks about the law manifested as the cow, punishing the brahmanas who took it away from the brahmana and opressed the brahmana. the commentary you posted takes the verse out of the context.
      the verse has nothing to do with killing of infidels.instead of relyng on the commentries,rely on the hymn (chaper) in which the verse occurs.

      the video i gave,the sholar clearly says that the fac of allah is literal.its not like himans,agreed but the face is literal.the video links shows it.

      i did nt say any lie, it s you who make it appear as a lie.
      didnt you read that 32:5 and 70:4?the verse clealy says “one day”.
      32:5-“…in One day, the space thereof a thousand years of your reckoning….”
      70:4-“…. unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years”.
      both the verses equates ONE DAY=1000/50000 years.
      so dont lie.

      and one more thing.
      you said”…but yu(i.e.,me) neglected what i said”.this is esactly wha you did to my posts.you neglected each and every post of mine descrbing he atharva veda verse and how the commentary given for it was wrong,but you neglected them.you didnt even care to read my post and now yu complain of e neglecting your posts?idiot. and by the way,you didnt prve anything.the above verses clearly talks of time in allah’s perspectiv as one day=1000,50000 years,but again u lied here.

      • as for the verse of aharva veda, there are other commentaries as well that do not talk of killing infidels.forexampl, refer to swami ramswarup. the hymn actually is not adressed to belivers killing unbelivers.that was the mistake done by the commentator.i would rge you to read th hymn,the one that is adressed is that cow(“brahmagavi,as agniveer pus it), killing and punishing the kshathriys who opresses the brahmana.verse 5 says that kshathriya takes away the cow and in the suceedin versea the cow [unishes the kshathriya, and again in verse 46,the kshathroya taking the cow and opressing the brahmana is mentioned and in the suceeding verses which also includes the verse you mentioned,again,as before,the cow killing the kshathriya is mentioned.the whole hymn does not mention killing of an infidel at all.what kils is the cow(law manifested) and not any “beliver of vedas”.that can be understood fom the hymn itself
        SO YOU SHOULD GO AND READ THE WHOLE HYMN.IF YOU READ IT, YOU COULD UNDERSTAND THAT THE COMMNTARY GIVEN IS NOT APT FOR THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE.
        also read Swami Ramswaroop’s translation and comentary,there again, the law is manifested as vajra(thunderbolt) and it killsdestroys the kshathroys,again in his comentary killing of infidels is not mentioned.

  19. The above text was taken from this site:
    http://www.historyofjihad.org/quran.html

    This site is against all forms of fanaticism – religious and non-religious. But the emotional appeal of non-religious fanaticism like Nazism, Fascism or Communism is not as pervasive as that of fanaticism based on religion.

    The History of Jihad site is brought to you by a panel of contributors. This site is co-ordinated by Robin MacArthur with Mahomet Mostapha and Naim al Khoury, New Jersey.

    Other contributors to this site include professors and members of the faculty from the Universities of Stanford and Michigan (Ann Arbor), Kansas State University, Ohio State University, and the London School of Economics. We strongly suggest that this site be recommended as additional reading for students of Islamic History.

    We also invite students and professors of this subject to mirror this site on your University or private servers, link it up from your sites, to print it as a non-profit publication and refer it to students, journalists, cinematographers, military personnel, members of both houses of Congress, and Parliamentarians from your countries, members of the judiciary and most importantly to officers of the FBI, CIA, Scotland Yard, MI5, Mossad, FSB (Russian Secret Police) Direction Generale de la Securite Exterieure (DGSE) and to all other stakeholders in the subjects of the Islam and the Jihad.

  20. After Islam is militarily defeated and then destroyed; the need of the day would be to come up with workable creative ideas, for brainwashing the remaining religious fanatics with techniques like anesthesia leading to amnesia and re-education of such brainwashed ex-religious fanatics; or the use of mass lobotomy to achieve the same result. Only such a technique could prevent religious fanaticism from being resurrected with a name other than Islam and insure the progress of human civilization without any obstacle from any religion.

    To summarize, the religious outlook that claims to “know the unknown”, as a god, allah, etc., is a sub-optimal human response (and so is a sub-human response). Violent monotheism is a criminal response which has brought our world to where it is today, post 11th September.

    The need of our age is to start with the destruction of the most blood-thirsty form of religious fanaticism – Islam, followed up with the dovetailing of all other forms of religious fanaticism so that they move over and make way for rational-humanism. To make it more subtle; the need is for religion and religious fanaticism to move out of human minds and be replaced by rational-humanism.

  21. From its root to its fruit Islam is the most violent, and virulent form of this delusion that the unknown universe is a god and all those who do not accept this brand of fantasizing of the unknown universe have to be slaughtered. This is so since Islamic fanaticism was born in a barren and harsh desert environment that gave birth to the paranoid mentality of the Bedouin Arabs among whom was born Mohammed (yimach shmo ve-zichro – may his name and memory be obliterated), the founder of this blood-thirsty creed – Islam.

    This blood-thirsty Muslim mentality has trickled down to the newest convert to Islam be he or she Brown Black, Yellow or White. Most importantly it makes Islam the worst enemy of quest and science and of all human progress. Whileall religions are opposed to science as the Pope was to Galileo and Copernicus; but it is Islam which is the most blood-thirsty expression of this challenge of religion to reason. So Islam will have to be the first to be removed from the path of human progress and the reply to Islam to be effective would have to be more blood-thirsty and paranoid than Islam itself.

    Those opposed to Islam will have to be like the hunter who aims his rifle between the eyes of the man-eater tiger and shoots till the tiger is dead meat. The hunter bears no enmity with the tiger, but shoots him dispassionately, so that he himself can live, and NOT end up by becoming the dinner of the man-eater.

    This has to be the attitude, not based on a hate of Islam, but a determination to put a full and final end to Islam, so that Human society can progress without the hindrance of any religion obstructing its path.

  22. When fanaticism and religion are mixed, we have a very potent and dangerous brew that can sustain itself for centuries unlike non-religious fanaticisms like Nazism and Communism which die out when the ringleaders are defeated. This is so, since religion is based on the psychological weakness of all humans, when we humans try to comprehend the unknown (universe). This understanding is (and perhaps will always remain) incomplete.

    Religion tries to complete this incompleteness by fantasizing that the unknown is a god and that this god is the creator of all things that happen in this world and the universe. This idea that there is a god, which is assumed to be the unknown power in the universe makes the human mind paranoid because of our fear of the unknown. And this paranoia drives humans to do anything to propitiate this unknown power that is assumed to exist. This is what transforms this weakness of our human mind into a sickness. It is this sickness of the mind that drives humans to undertake wild acts like suicide bombings, fight holy wars, forced conversion, slaughter of humans who give a different name to this assumed power called god, etc, under the delusion of trying to please the unknown power that is assumed to be behind all existence.

    While all forms of religious fanaticism are negative, only Islam raises slaughter of all Kafirs (non-Muslims) to a holy creed, it teaches Muslims to gloat over the killing of non-Muslims and celebrate their death. Hence Islam is the most demented and dangerous form of religious fanaticism. And it is not Islamic fanaticism that is to be blamed for this, as Islam itself is fanaticism.

  23. -Saroj
    Poor Answers again.
    Again you didn’t respond to commentries and other thing’s.

    But the blunders made by you are laughable, you agreed about contradictory statements in vedas and said it can’t be comprehended by US and big joke was we can reach God head. Keep going, this verse shows that even rishis were not confident whether Ishwar know’s about creation of Universe. And Arya samaj and Agniveer confirmed that he didn’t.

    Then you went saying that it’s a blunder mentioning Allah’s time with human time (which shows you didn’t read may answer). No where does it say that.

    And you couldn’t understand Qur’an 112:4. Perhaps vedas doesn’t allow your mind to comprehend it. There is nothing like him (it will cover everything). Untill vedic mind’s aren’t in delusion why would anyone say it.

    They believe everything is Illusion (Maya). Hindu Texts say this :

    Logical Reasoning :
    1. Everything is Illusion
    2. When Everything is Illusion then Vedas is also Illusion
    3. Every verse in Vedas is Illusion
    4. The Verse “Everything is Illusion” is illusion
    5. Then Everything is Illusion is doubtful
    6. 1st and 5th are Contradictory
    7. The Notion “Everything is illusion” is false.

    The Problem is clear. The verse that makes the claim falls in the same category.

    A far as Humans seeing God. First that’s on Day of Judgment and it’s God who will give blessed soul’s that capability otherwise

    Qur’an 6:103
    No Vision Can grasp him but his grasp is over all visions.

    God form is not in space.
    Your assumptions are Poor regarding God.

    And it was my 12th Class examination that I wasn’t available on email’s plus there is a problem with email account.

    • @jazib.
      regarding commentaries, i already repled. i already stated that it does not refer to killing of infidels in any form, if the context of the hymn Atharva Veda 12/5 is taken into account,it is the symbol of the unchangabl law(cow) destroying/punishing the thief/opresser.read what i have written.

      the verse in rig veda only mention that human mind cant comprehend the supreme and it projects its own limitations to what they try to perceive-they project their own limitation to understand the universe’s origin to God and ponders whether god knows it or not.but, it does not mean that we cant reach God heas-we can by performing the mandated activities.

      maya dosent mean “illusion”it means “tht which changes.”.when hundus say the world is maya, it dosent mean that the universe is not there-but the universe is not constand,it changes.
      the world is changing.and is not the same always,the verses and knowledge in Vedas are not illusion,they are reflecions of the supreme tuth.when the Vedas use the word
      illusion,it is used in an entore;ly different area-it refers to the gross universe-the changing univers.it also refers to human lives-out lives are not constant always-it keeps on changing on the cycle of time.what we r ow is not what we are years ahead.but the knowledge iin the verses does not change-it is constant ,the papr on whihc the vedas ad quran are printed changes,but the meaning the vedas/quran impress are not,they are timeless.

      whatever you say,the video link stated that Allah has a form thats covered with light veil nd we shall se it. the videos by scholars dosent say it is not literal, it says a literal face.and since it is a form that we perceive,it is within space and time.

      and the quran state that time runs in Alla’ and is relative to his creation’ perspective-1 day=1000/50000 years.the very fact that Alla’s time perspective is relative to his creation’s perspective proves he is within space/time.sorry, you havent given a…

      • ..satisfactory explanation.you did not give a satisfactory explanation to the verses in hadiths and quran i quoted that disproves allah is beyond spaxe and time.
        all you did was giving some random satements that has nothing to do with the contex of our discussion.what is really a joke is tht you wont read my comments and then blaatantly lie that i did not respond!

        to the commentary,(or,your misinterpretation of the commentary),read my reply dated. november 26,2015 11:58 pm.but unfortunately ,jazib do not read it and then lies that i did nt respond!typical.

        and secondly, i have already stated that all commentaries re not true,there are commentaries bu other scholars who does not include killing of infidels as he meaning of the verse.the commentary you quoted takes the verse out of the context of the hymn.and hence it cannot be encouraged.

        as for the verse from the rig veda,what is really joke is that you misinterpreted m response as
        the verse cannot be comprehended bu us” when i actually wrote, “the verse says we cannot coomprehend the supreme and thats the meaning of thev verse.and then you used strawman’s attck,”tehe joke is we can reach Godhead”.yes,we can and the Vedas says so.Read Rig Veda 10/173 and loo at the dialogue between agasthya and indra on how to reach the Godhead as per Vedas.

      • @jzib:
        so, you do not understand what i wrote and still hold on your stupid presumtions i have clearly wrote the response to all your allegations in the previous comment but you lie and do not read them thats not my problem but yours.

        and, what you wrote on time perspeive of allah sows clearly that your “scientific knowledge” finds peace in gutter.
        sorry, yo havnt given a satisfactory response.

        good bye.

      • @jazib.
        my final word:
        (1) read the verse in the hymn instea dpf taking it out of the context.
        as fr commentaries,all the commentaries are not accurate.
        secondly,t the contex of the hymn 12/5 does not talk about kiling infidels,its the wrong notion of the commentator that it refers to killing of the infidels.
        next,as part of the commentary,ksemkarandas trivedi has either taken this verse out of context, or ut his own presumtions here just like you do.
        the context of the hymn is that the cow (represeting the law ) is revealed by brahmanas and is stolen by kshathriyas and opress the brahmanas.the cow takes the form of the punitive forc and destroys the kshathriyas.the verse has nothing to do with killing infidels,

        nest coming to quran i have given the lik to the video where the scholar say that the face of Allah is lteral and cn be seen,this alone proves allah is within space time.then the very fact that God has time running in his perspective and is relative to that of his creatures again proves he is within time constrain just like his creations, YOU ARE PLAYING A FILTHY DOUBLE STANDARD HERE.TO COVER THIS CONTRADICTION IN QURAN YOU QUOTE OTHER VERSES WHOCH SAYS GOD’S ATTRIGUTES ARE NOT LIKE OURS,BUT DO NOT ADRESS THIS ISSUE WITHIN THE QURAN THAT DISPROVES YOUR NOTION THAT HE IS BEYOND SPACE AND TIME.you r good i jumpingg from one arument to another,but that dosent work here.

    • @jazib
      and as for your question,”can the unchangable laws of nature be opressed by kshathriyas?
      kshathriyas did not opress the law of nature,,they opressed the brahmanas .thus,the law of nature(here the cow)take the aspect of punitive force(which is an aspect of th law of nature-you do wrong you get punished) and destroys them.right from the verse 12, to the very last, the cow is invoked as being the ferocious punishing force and punishes the kshathriyas.
      the verse does not say about killing infidels at all.rather as the law of nature.thisis where kshemchandra’s ommentary falls down. and agnveer’s understanding of the cow as the brahmagavi,the unchangable laws of nature becomes correct,since it is the direct consequene of the context of the hymn.God read the hymn and then come.

  24. @jazib.
    cow as the law unchangable is understood when you read the whole hymn.first,the creation of the cow from the fervour, devotion,righteousness and truthfulness is mentioned.this “cow” takes te form of the law as the punitive force against the kshathriya.in fact “brahmagavi” is translated here as the law-literally brahma gavi means “the supreme cow”.this notion of cow as the law is mentioned from atharva veda verse 12 throughout, where the cow destroys the one who stole it.for that you should read the whole comment of ours.thus the cow represents the unchangable law.and the commentary you showed is not killing infidels, hat also i have exlained,but you choose to stand by your lack of understanding,thats not my problem.

    the next one you mentioned refering to the form of allah is again not on a good stand.it is but an unproved blanket statement,in fact allah says his one year is equal to some 1000 years or 50000 years of us(mankind/angel.i dont know)but this proves that the time of alla is relative to the time in the domain of his creatures.this itself proves he is bound to space and time.again prophet muhammed mentions that his face is covered with veil of light and shall be seen by the belivers on the day of judgement.again,that proves his form is perceovable to his creatures and thus bound to space and time.these contradictions cannot be explained away by merely quoting one verse you cherry picked(quran112/4).

    the ast verse you mentioned is from rig veda nasadiya suktha.these verses show reflect the limitedness of human mind to comprehend the supreme reality-God.and that is why there is a mention of these contradictoty features.what the Vedas say is that you can experiece and reach Godhead but cant comprehend it in the present intellectual state.and th verse you said last substantiates it.

  25. -Saroj
    Please you didn’t Refuted Commentries. YOU are just saying it exposes me. Answer the Commentries, it says kill infidels and Agniveer Said UNCHANGEABLE LAWS OF NATURE, does this represent Cow. Can Law of nature which is supposed to be UNCHANGEABLE oppressed by Kshatriyas. Hahaha, Context starts from 47 which is again neglected.

    Let’s see Poor understanding of Saroj Again :
    jazib this shows your “scientific knowledge” find its proper place in gutter.the vry word “form ” itself is determined by space.if you speak of “form that dosent need space”

    Response : He again talks about form and not Godly form.

    I will repeat
    Qur’an 112:4
    There is nothing like unto him.

    THIS form is not the Sarojs Ishwars form which is time bound.

    And then he Quoted laughable statement that in one verse Allah’s day is 1000 and other Fifty thousand.
    He has maybe Copied it from poor Arya Pals argument because one of the verses talk about
    Reckoning of Angels
    And another
    Affairs

    And is this an argument.

    It’s same as Allah revealed Qur’an in 23 year’s to PROPHET so he is time bound.

    Or God created universe in 14 billion year’s so he is time bound.

    Foolish argument.

    And then he said that Prophet said Allah’s face is Covered with Light. No one on this planet will take it literal as it’s clearly Metaphorical but again Saroj did the same Mistake.

    Atleast Respond Properly.

    Vedic Passages are unclear Everywhere. It at one place says that We are not Sure whether Ishwar created universe or not.

    Maybe He knows or Maybe HE KNOWS NOT (Rig Veda)

    So when Ishwar is doubted by Rishis, so how can your Argument’s stand forth.

  26. @jazib.
    you have not rea dmy complee possts.you are cherry picking partchn=ments of my statements.try to understand the posts that i make,they are based on the vedas.and dont judge beore you know anything about the vedeas.all these prove you r a moron.

  27. @jaib.
    you have not rea dmy complee possts.you are cherry picking partchn=ments of my statements.try to understand the posts that i make,they are based on the vedas.and dont judge beore you know anything about the vedeas.all these prove you r a moron.

    • had you cared to read few more other verses to know the nature of the haters(both sided haters) in the atharva ved, you ould recognse that the haters does not refer to some one you hate without reason.read atharva veda 8/4/10:
      agni is here inoked to destroy the those who injure the food,kine,body etc.the agni,indra and some in this hymn is disintegrated feature of brahman(God) as the destroyer of evil.one verse from somewhere in Vedas cannot complete the whole story.those verss with the same context has to be intergrated.as a result,the ones who are to be killed in the atharva veda 2/29 refer to evil doers and unrighteous ones.or they can be personifications of such forces within the mind.

  28. this was already responded by me. agniveer here says that it refer to the brahmagavi, the law of nature. and i have clearly mentioned that the “cow” is a representation of the law of nature.read my comment before dated november 27,2015,12:26 am.this is what i wrote:
    “the cow is representation of the law/prciple that sustains the univer and ensures prosperity,but since he cow is being stolen and th possessors of the cow opressed, the cow acts along the law of karma and manifests itself as the punitive force against those who took it” the cow, is revealed by the processes mentioned in the verses 1 to 4 in the same hymn.thus ,agniveer’s interpretation dosent conradict what i have wrote.i cleaarly also stated that the “cow” here takes the form of the law os karma and acts as the punitive force against the kshathriyas who stole it.thus again,your presumtion that my interpretation is wrong is fallen flat!
    now lets come to kshemchandra’s interpretation,the “irreligioun” here does not refer to unbelief, but to the act of stealing and opressing, since the verse deals with the cow as the law punishing the stealer and the opresser.thus,there is no “killing of infidels” in this verse at all.since you sever out one verse out of contxt, you might think of killing infidels,but the context of the verse is light years away from the meaning of the vese.for that YOU SHOULD READ THE HYMN AND UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT,which you would never try to.

    thus you half minded reading rest in garbage.

    • and by the way, brahma gavi literally means the “brahma(supreme) cow”.gavi means cow.here, i have said cow symbolises the LAW/TRUTH which is revealed by
      “Created by toil and holy fervour, found by devotion, resting in
      right;
      2Invested with truth, surrounded with honour, compassed about
      with glory;
      3Girt round with inherent power, fortified with faith, protected,
      by consecration, installed at sacrifice, the world her resting-
      place;
      4Brahma her guide, the Brāhman her lord and ruler;”(atharve veda 12/5/1-4)
      thu again,the verses says that the cow is symbolisation of the LAW/TRUTH that is revealed by the above proceses.

      SO YOUR STATEMENTS FIND THEMSELVES RIGHT IN THE DUSTBIN.

      your out of context misinterpretation of kshemchandra’s commentary exposes your hollow minded understanding.

      and coming to your next statement:
      Next you said Islamic Sources Say Allah (SWT) has form and Poor Saroj thought it must be like ordinary form of Humans which is evident from his wrong FOR HIM TO HAVE A FORM, HE HAS TO BE IN SPACE

      Foolish point is neglecting that God doesn’t have form like humans which needs space. God has hand’s but they are not human hands 5 fingers.
      Or God has face but that’s not like Human face having eyes, nose etc. There is nothing like Godly

      jazib this shows your “scientific knowledge” find its proper place in gutter.the vry word “form ” itself is determined by space.if you speak of “form that dosent need space” it is illogical, AND A FIGMENT OF IMAGINATION.the Quran even tells that allah is bound to time-he tells that his one day is 1000 years of man/angels(i dont know) and in another place 50000 years-again proving he is bound to time dimention.an entity beyond time and spae cannot have time(years,days,etc) running in his perspective.
      furthermore,muhammed prophet tells that allah’s face is covered with lilight and shall be revealed in the day of judgement-again showing that his form is perceivable to limitd intellect and thus…

      • thus your “defence” for islamic Allah dosent stand on any ogical base-its either a figment of imagination, or your vague statements to escape the contradiction ofGod having form.
        atharva veda 2/19 is a reference to agni.agni is the earthly representation of the supreme being.the all pervasive agni is here called unto destroy the “enemy”.remember the enemy if the “one who hates”it refers to the inner forces evil that stops man from discovering the REALITY, or Brahman. agni represents that aspect of God that destroys ignorance(since agni-fire is light and light symbolises goodness and knowledge and destroys the enemy of ignorance).thus,agni burning the enemy is a representation of destroying ignorance.to substantiate more on what agni represents,read atharva veda 6/77 that i have posted during our first discussions and there also i have explained that agnirepresents the paramatha that reveals the “cows” of supreme revelations.this hymn has to be read in conjunction with that.this is further illuminated in Rig Veda 10/173 and Atharva Veda 4/23.time and again, i have explained to you that blind literal interpretation, and plucking verses out of context should not be done in interpreting Vedas. One has to integrate the various hymns across the Vedas with similar meanings-and then come to a conclusion.a detailed understanding of atharva veda 6/77 reveals that agni(jathavedas) represents the “paramathma” feature of God, and thus, the enemies are the ones who stops one from searching for paramathma and the supreme knowledge that is revealed from it.thus the “enemies” here refer to the forces that opposesyou from reaching paramathma. YOU SHOULD NOT SEVERE OUT ONE VERSE AS YOU HAVE DONE HERE, BUT ITEGRATE THE VERSES WITH THE SAME DEITIES BEING INVOKED.THAT IS WHY AGNI IS REVEALED HERE AS PARAMATHMA.THUS THERE ISNOTHING WRONG IN THESE VERSES.

      • the “context of the hymn startsfrom verse 47.” the coontext that agniveer meant and what i meant are different.when i said the word context,i meant the whole backgrund of the hymn-cow as punitive forcepunishing the lawless kshathriyas,when he used the word context, he meant the specific context of cow(brahmagavi) as the punitie force,or the law,punishing the wicked.i meant the overall context of the hymn where the cow’s identity is revealed in the first four verses,and,he(agniveer) meant the sectional context of cow being adresed as the punitive aspect of the law.

  29. -Saroj
    Again Low level arguments. Let’s see, you are not any Hindu Scholar but Arya samajis are and they have made it Clear from COMMENTRIES and not Jazib. Your own explanation is not needed, you even tried to Interpret Qur’an as you like once.
    Still the commentries stand still. As far as who told me that context starts from 47 is your Agniveer. Here’s what he says.

    Agniveer :
    The current context of the mantra starts at least from 12.5.47 and continues till 73. In reality, the mantra is dedicated to Brahmagavi (ब्रह्मगवी). This refers to fundamental unchangeable laws of nature…

    Arya samaj COMMENTRIES :
    ”Godly persons shall always be ready to kill irreligious people”

    [Kshemkarandas Trivedi (Arya Samaj) on Atharva Veda 12.5.62, p.576]

    CURSE them not me. it’s you including your contradictory Scholars who say so.

    Next you said Islamic Sources Say Allah (SWT) has form and Poor Saroj thought it must be like ordinary form of Humans which is evident from his wrong FOR HIM TO HAVE A FORM, HE HAS TO BE IN SPACE

    Foolish point is neglecting that God doesn’t have form like humans which needs space. God has hand’s but they are not human hands 5 fingers.
    Or God has face but that’s not like Human face having eyes, nose etc. There is nothing like Godly

    Qur’an 112:4
    And there is nothing like unto him.

    Would Saroj had read Qur’an he would have never reached this nonsense point. As for as Pagan Hindu Questioning about Allah’s throne which although is answered but still let me reply.
    God’s throne is not like human throne with 4 legs etc. GOD THRONE JUST SHOWS WHERE GOD’S KINGSHIP LIES AND SINCE GOD’S KINGSHIP IS EVERYWHERE SO GOD’S THRONE IS EVERYWHERE TOO.

    Qur’an 2:255
    His Throne Extends to Skies and the Earth.

    AND ALLAH SITTING ON HIS THRONE IS A LIE MADE BY ANTI-ISLAMISTS LIKE AGNIVEER AND OTHERS.

    While leaving One more

    Atharva Veda 2.19.1 Burn thou, O Agni, with that heat of thine against the man who hates…

  30. @jazib
    “and i give metaphors….”
    in relation to the context of the hymn,the first verses PROVES that the cow mentioned here is a metaphor.and that i have explained in a detailed manner.my explanation based on metaphors is NOT whimsical to my fancies,but as demanded by the hymn itself.so, if you miss them,then your hole understanding is fallen flat.

    and, as to your pearl statement “my answers hardly proves anything” is your misarehention and a lie.it shows that you have never cared to read it thoroughly.i have connected the hymn and its verses within the context, in a, logical manner.either you dont understand it,or you presume that only you r right,or you lie here.none of them is my business,its you hollowness and your ignorance.

  31. @jazib, i have exposed your aruments in that post itself.i have said that the whole hymn talks about the cow and if you care to read the hymn,that particular verse deals with the cow aas a punitive force against the kshathriys.since youcant gve satisfactory answer you blabber like a fool.as for the commentary you gave,ii have also given an explanation pertaining to that.but you ignored to read my posts,thinking you know everything and later lying that you didnt ignore them.that is your blatant hollow dishonesty.

    as for allah and tme,again you statement shows your lack of scientific knowledge.let me put the question again..many islamic slurces say God has a form of is on but none can see him.but the very statement aLLAH HAS A FORM FAILS HIM TO BE BEYOND SPACE/TIME.this is one big absurdity.the monent you say allah has a form,he is bound to space and time, and thus he is not the creator of both.this proves that islamic allah fails to be a real God.that is the point.you missed the real refutation point and jumped to time being a creationa and gave an unrelated reply.anyway, i agree that time is a creation, but the islamic God is not the creator of time for the reasons above.
    your above statement shows that your scintific knowledge rests in garbage.

    for fools who pretend to know everything and gives unrelated ,out of context,out of focus statements as “replies” and dont care to read the opponents points,everything appears to be a hedious joke.that only exposes you as a closed minded, ignorant fool treating his presumtions and half baked understanding as the final word.and i dont give a f*ck even if you reply to it or not.all our disussions between us exposes the hollowness and closed view of your arguments.anyway, until and unless you change from a closed minded person to an open minded peson ready to understand what exactly is the point missing in your presumtions, you remain the same.@jazib, i have exposed your aruments in that post itself.i have said that…

    • and who told you the context is from verse 47?the conext start right from the hymn.but specific secondary context aimed at the kshathroyas start from 47.”what i have to do with them”?nothing if you dont want to learn what the hymn actually says.but to explore the real meaning of the misquoted verse,you have to read from the hymn,tip to tip.severing a verse out of context,as you have done does not explain the verse meaning and the context.for that you have to read the whole hymn.

      anyway, let the readers who read our discussio so far come to an understandng as to who is right and who is wrong.
      regards
      saroj.

  32. -Hindu
    You are a true Pagan and didn’t addressed my Questions. why don’t you guy’s stop brushing and washing. And plant’s feel pain. Come to myself Google+ account because link’s are not uploading here.

    -Saroj
    Your poor answer’s, I don’t even give them any lift. The interpretation of verse in Giving by Arya Samaj and Not Jazib.
    Cow was not in text was seen in Agniveer’s article.
    Since Commentries exposed you so it became a lie.
    Anyway, Context starts from Verse 47 but since you were busy in changing the thing so you started Quoting first verse WHAT I HAVE TO DO WITH THEM? when context is from Verse 47.

    And you seem to find metaphors in every verse while answering. And I don’t care about your poor answers since they hardly prove anything.

    -Hindu Pagan is also a Fool. His Allah’s throne, mere lip service Question’s were debunked before this but Hindu Pagan’s keep repeating same Nonsense.

    And Saroj your scientific knowledge can find dustbin. Time is a creation, so God is obviously beyond time and space as he created time also.
    I don’t care about Arya samaj God who didn’t created anything. A fraud and can’t do everything.

    You never give satisfied answer but poor arguments. I now neglect your comments. I saw your response to sister Aiza’s proof that authors of Vedas thought plant’s are nonliving.

    Your poor answers there were also hedious. Or I would say everything you say is a joke and far from anything.

    • Don’t lie Jazib

      Quran says Allah is in heaven

      67:16 Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed ?

      Tell me the meaning

      Reminder:- below questions are not answered yet

      As Allah is accessible by ear, to humans (As in the case of musa nabi talking to allah) why God is not accessible to eyes or any other senses?

      What you concentrate while praying?? Mere lip service?

      allah is not beyond time as heaven and hell will not be destroyed per quran. time has no end per quran. So does universe will not end. I posted lot of questions on your stupid soul concept and after life concept where are the answers ???

  33. -Hindu
    You didn’t answer properly. Why don’t you then stop Companies like Colgate and stop washing and brushing.
    Plant’s feel pain. They secrete some Gases at that time.

    -Saroj
    You said that it’s Personification and that it’s about his destroying Kshatriyas who oppressed him. I think you didn’t understood what I said. I will show you the verse along with commentries.

    Atharva Veda 12.5.62
    Rend, rend to bits, rend through and through, scorch and consume and burn to dust, the one who rejects the Vedas

    Arya Samaj commentary on this verse states:

    ”Godly persons shall always be ready to kill irreligious people”

    [Kshemkarandas Trivedi (Arya Samaj) on Atharva Veda 12.5.62, p.576]

    He writes on Atharva Veda 12.5.54

    ‘‘Vedic followers should destroy infidels”- page 574

    Contrary to what you are saying even agniveer didn’t said anything about Cow in this verse. according to him context starts from verse 47. He used deceptions in it.

    And Vishnu Purana supports this

    It is mentioned in Vishnu Purana,

    ”When the glorious Vishnu heard their prayers he emitted from his person an illusory form wliich he gave to the celestials and said. “This illusory form shall so deceive the Daityas, that being led astray from the path of the Vedas, they shall be slain ; for all gods, demons and others, who shall transgress the authority of the Veda, shall perish by my prowess which I exercise for the preservation of the universe. Go then ; be not affraid ; this illusory form shall go before you. celestials, it shall be of great service to you, this day.”- Vishnu Purana 3.17, Tr. Manmath Nath Dutt

    So sorry but it’s about destroying infidels.

    • its again nit about destroying infidels. the “kshathriys” here mentioned are the ones who steal the cows away.the “cows” here is a personofication.that i have explained above:
      “Created by toil and holy fervour, found by devotion, resting in
      right;
      2Invested with truth, surrounded with honour, compassed about
      with glory;
      3Girt round with inherent power, fortified with faith, protected,
      by consecration, installed at sacrifice, the world her resting-
      place;
      4Brahma her guide, the Brāhman her lord and ruler;”
      thus the cow here is the one who is personofication of the power/asset the one who inquires into the supreme(God)(here, refered to as brahman) acquires as the result of the above process.
      the next verse talks of the one who is dstroyed as mentioned in the verse you have given:

      “Of the Kshatriya who taketh to himself this Brāhman’s cow and
      oppresseth the Brāhman.
      6The glory, the heroism, and the favouring fortune depart.
      7The energy and vigour, the power and might the speech and
      mental strength, the glory and duty;
      8Devotion and princely sway, kingship and people, brilliance and
      honour, and splendour and wealth;
      9Long life and goodly form, and name and fame, inbreathing and
      expiration, and sight, and hearing;
      10Milk and flavour, and food and nourishment, and right and
      truth, and action and fulfilment, and children and cattle;
      11All these blessings of a Kshatriya depart from him when he
      oppresseth the Brāhman and taketh to himself the hhman’s
      cow.”

      thus the kshathriyas here mentioned are theo ones who “takes away the cows ” that are revealed by the brhmana after the process mentioned in the verse1 and oppress the brhmanas.,
      so, the “kshatriyas” mentioned here are not infidels,but the oppressors and those who snatch the result of righteousness/toil/fervour/truthfulness.that i have explained above itself.

      so your interpretation is half boiled without reading the whole hymn.so sory your understanding is WRONG, Jazib.

    • and by the way,did you read the verse in vishnu puran?vshnu says he uses the vedic principles to preserve and protect the universe.these vedic principles are personified as the “cow” in the above Veda verse.
      the kshathriyas,mentioned here transgress the veda authority,by snatching away the “cow”,or the vedic principles by which the universe is maintained which they misuse and may cause the destruction of the universe.that is mentioned in the verse you quoted fro the vishnu purana itself:
      to put it simply,the rishi reveals the “cow”,personofication of the universal vedic principles by which the universe is maintained, and the “kshathriyas” steal/take it away from the authorities who revealed it(brahmanas) and opress them and use the principles for their personal benefits. vishu,thus,to protect the universe,destroys the kshathriyas who take away the authority from the rishis and oppress them, and use thus restores the universe and maintains/protects it with the vedic principles sustainance(personified here as the “cow”).
      this is the purport of the verse, it is not about killing people who does not blindly accept the vedas,but those who misuse the vedic principles by taking it away from the right authorities (who has revealed it through truth/righteousness/toil/devotion/).
      so, your presumption that the verse talks about killing infidels show your lack of understanding and half reading with presumptions in mind.that dosent work here in reading the Vedas.

      i dont accept the arya samaj interpretation to this verse because the vishnu purana and the veda verse tlk about a totally different scenario.the whole hymn talks about brahmana revealing the “cow”,personofication of the truth of sustaining the universee and kshathriyas taking it away from rishi and opressing them(and thus, misusing them for their personal benefit,something that has to be done to protect the whole universe), and how the very same cow they took destroys them for their wrongdoings

      • the whole hymn mentions the “cow”.in later verses, the word “she” is used at times to refer to the cow.even the word cow,”gau” is used throughout the hymn. arya samaj interpretation falls here because they do not take the context into consideration.even the verse from the vishnu purana you quoted dosent talk about killikng infidels but about preserving the universe by destrooying those who transgress the vedic principle that causes the uprupt int he universe.in this paticular hymn,those principle are manifested as the “cow”,and thus a personification,and the :cow” is sbnathed away from those who revealed it by their hard work through meditation.it is these principleas that sustain the universe. but the kshathriyas, take these principles away from those who revealed it and start opressing the seers who revealed this knowledge and start using for their own benefit. if these miscreants exist,it causes the collapse of the universe, and disruption of ritha(ritha is the principle that sustains the universe,it is a basic hindu term denoting the natural flow of the universe that ensures prosperity to the whole world) and thus causing havoc in the unverse and Vishnu kills these miscreants. thus, in Vedas, the “infidels” refer to those who cause disruption in the universe hat may lead to the collapse of the universe and Vishnu kills these people, and that is why the very same verse you qupted from vishnu purana says that Vishnu says,” ; for all gods, demons and others, who shall transgress the authority of the Veda, shall perish by my prowess which I EXERCISE FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THE UNIVER”.Thus, God’s concern is not expecting blind faith, but the order/law/principles that sustain the universe -Vihnu kills them for the protection of the world and not for his sake.
        YOU HAVE TO READ THE VERSES FOM TIP TP TIP AND COMPLETELY.

        WHAT YOU HAVE DONE ABOVE IS STRAWMAN’S LOGIC-YOU SAW THE PHRASE GOD KILLING THOSE WHO ARE ASTRAY FROM VEDAS-AND THUS REFERS TO…

      • inshort-“i sjall show you the verse with commentaries”…your understandinhgi is half boiled.again i insist,read the whole hymn and understand who is being refered to as being killed.DONT JUDGE BEFORE YOU READ THE WHOLE HYMN.anyway, now i see howmuch less understanding you have in Vedas.

        jazib, read the hymn independently from tip to tip. and dont severe out one single verse and give a commentary to it.your intrpretation(or who so ever it is) falls flat at the very moment you forget the context behind the verse.

      • @jazib, so i think you seroiously didnt read my comments,or ignored it. the hymn is to be read completely and the verses are to be put into the context .after glorfying the “Cow”, kshatriyas are mentioned who steal the cow and opress the rishis, and in turn, as by the law of karma, this “cow” destros the kshatriyas who stealed the “cow”.(cow-prsonfication of the result of deep yoga-jnana yoga,karma yoga,bhakthi yoga and dhyana yoga).the cow is representation of the law/prciple that sustains the univer and ensures prosperity,but since he cow is being stolen and th possessors of the cow opressed, the cow acts along the law of karma and manifests itself as the punitive force against those who took it.this is the ones who are being killed as explained in verse 62,54 etc all which you quoted.verse 5 syas the kshathriya stealing the cow, and the subsequent verses deal with the destruction of the ne who did it(khatriya) and this continues till the end,passing through verse 62 and 54.also, in between too, the hymn mentions about the kshatriyas again,who steal the “cow” and opress the brhmanas .again it is common sense,that those being killed here(rended apart in verse 62) rfers specifically to kshatriyas alone, because the law of karma tels that your actions shall come back to you as he results,here kshatriys has done a wrong deed and the result came to them as the cow(manifested as thunderbolt,agni and vayu) killing and destroying them.
        and then,you brought up aremote verse form vishnu purana.however, close examination of the verse you showed also does not prove God is killing infidels,God is killing those wh are trouble some for the protection of the universe.

    • Jazib,

      keep your lies with you. plants secrete gas; this is precisely I mean by saying that plants respond to stimuli..it has self defenses. but no need to feel pain

      You never answered any of my questions posted so far. so don’t repeat these lies. I am not posting scientific absurdities of quran because, faithfreedom,answering islam, wiki islam and absurdities of quran speak about them.Answer me about the theological absurdities first

      Is Allah beyond space and time? need quote from quran. if yes, then why quran says he is in heaven sitting in throne etc?

      As Allah is accessible by ear, to humans (As in the case of musa nabi talking to allah) why God is not accessible to eyes or any other senses?

      What you concentrate while praying?? Mere lip service?

      allah is not beyond time as heaven and hell will not be destroyed per quran. time has no end per quran. So does universe will not end. I posted lot of questions on your stupid soul concept and after life concept where are the answers ???

      • @jazib/hindu

        if allah is beyond space and time, then he cannot have a form as per muslims claim.many islamic slurces say God has a form of is on but none can see him.but the very statement aLLAH HAS A FORM FAILS HIM TO BE BEYOND SPACE/TIME.this is one big absurdity.in fact quran says that allah has limbs. and some prophet muhammed said that allah’s face is covered with hijab noor, the cover of light.and that it shall be unveiled to the belivers once they enter jannah. all these instanes shaow allah has face and is thus bound to spaceand time.even zakir naik accepted that.

      • Brother Saroj,

        Muslims are very smart . when we quote absurd hadiths (Nabi’s saying) they will say no no dont go with hadiths go with quran. But if quran itself says something absurd, muslims have no way to defend.

        However when it comes to defending islam they use both quran and hadiths

      • yes brother,
        i have noticed that many times.notice the blanket statement of jazib.look how he severed out one verse from atharva veda(12/5/62.54,) and see how he missed the whole context, and when i explained him the whle context behind the verse bu quoting the whole hymn,he still uses his strawman fallacy and dismisses the context.that is his absurd behaviour.imagine,they interpret the Vedas with this behaviour and gets conditioned to the thought that they have understood the whole of Vedas with their puny attempt(lacking undrstanding and a clear reaing of the hymns).and then they judge the Vedic slokas. please have a look at my discussions with him above.you can clearly see his blanket statements and half boiled understanding.
        note:and then he claim that i missed his point!!!lol!!!

  34. @jazib bhat
    its atharva veda 12/5/62..for this,the one who is invoked to destroy the enemy of brahmana is a cow.
    the whole hymn describes how the cow of a brahman destroys a kshatriya when she is snatched away by a kshathriya who not only takes away the cow, but also oppress the brahman. the whole hymn describes how powerful the cow is in destroying the kshathriya who has taken away and oppressed a brahman.nothing to do with hatred. a detailed xplanation is required. because cow symblises a a lot of concept in the Vedas.

    • the cow in atharva veda 12/5 is the personofication of the vital strength aquire by brahmana(by the way, brahmana is the one who inquires into brahman).how the cow is born is explained in verse 1-4:
      “Created by toil and holy fervour, found by devotion, resting in
      right;
      2Invested with truth, surrounded with honour, compassed about
      with glory;
      3Girt round with inherent power, fortified with faith, protected,
      by consecration, installed at sacrifice, the world her resting-
      place;
      4Brahma her guide, the Brāhman her lord and ruler;”
      thus the cow here is the one who is personofication of the power/asset the one who inquires into the supreme(God)(here, refered to as brahman) acquires as the result of the above process.
      the next verse talks of the one who is dstroyed as mentioned in the verse you have given:

      “Of the Kshatriya who taketh to himself this Brāhman’s cow and
      oppresseth the Brāhman.
      6The glory, the heroism, and the favouring fortune depart.
      7The energy and vigour, the power and might the speech and
      mental strength, the glory and duty;
      8Devotion and princely sway, kingship and people, brilliance and
      honour, and splendour and wealth;
      9Long life and goodly form, and name and fame, inbreathing and
      expiration, and sight, and hearing;
      10Milk and flavour, and food and nourishment, and right and
      truth, and action and fulfilment, and children and cattle;
      11All these blessings of a Kshatriya depart from him when he
      oppresseth the Brāhman and taketh to himself the hhman’s
      cow.

      THE NEXT VERSES TALK OF HOW THE COW(THE ASSET THE BRAHMAN HAS ACQUIRED BY A DIFFULT PROCESS THROUGH DHARMA) SHALL DESTROY THE KSHATHRIYA WHO HAS SNATCHED IT AWWAY FROM THE HIM AND OPRESSES HIM.
      the next verses talks about the ferociosiy and deadly power of the the asset that the brahmana has acquired through the above mentioned processes by which it punishes the opressor and the thief….

      • as i have stated, the cow here is the manfestation of toil,fervour ,roghteusness and truthfullnes and faith and devotion all invested into brahman(the one who does this to to know brahman, is caled braahmana).and the one who unrighteously deals with it an opresses the one wo revealed it through dharma,shall be dealt along the law of karma.the later verses hows the ferocious power of the cow,or the manifested essence of that which is the result of righteousness/truthfulness/toil/fervour/dedication/devotion/faith when it backfires on the one who commits adharma.the central point in the hymn is the law of karma,if the essence derived from truthfulness, righteousness and dedication is disrespected and if the one who does it is opressed,then the opressor has to face the consequences of his own actions.apart from the law of karma, the hymn describes, as i have above stated, the strength of the result of the process mentioned in the first four verses.such actiions are not to be dishonoured.if they are dishonoured,then will answer the humiliator. thus,the hymn you verse you showed up is not a discriminatory verse,or a hate verse, it simply describes the law of karma -you get the result of what you do-in one sense,and in another sense a glimpse of the power of truthfulness and righteousness manifesting itself as a punitive force against wrongdoers. thus the hymn is not a hate litrature as you guys suppose,it has a still deeper meaning.for this,you have to put the verse in the context and read,and not severe out a verse from a hymn according to your whimse and fancies.for this,you have to read whole hymn and put the verses in their own contexts.i know the souce from where you got this,but the owners of that forum lack a basic sense of decency.anyway,my point here is,instead of severing out a verse from the context, rather put the verses in their respective contexts.dnt judge at the first look.that is the blunder many of you commit(sometimes including us also).all the best.cu

  35. i get it. its atharva veda 12/5/62..for this,the one who is invoked to destroy the enemy of brahmana is a cow.
    the whole hymn describes how the cow of a brahman destroys a kshatriya when she is snatched away by a kshathriya who not only takes away the cow, but also oppress the brahman. the whole hymn describes how powerful the cow is in destroying the kshathriya who has taken away and oppressed a brahman.nothing to do with hatred. a detailed xplanation is required. because cow symblises a a lot of concept in the Vedas.

  36. -Hindu
    You said about PK that it attacks Islam also which is wrong because it attacked some false practices.

    Your lie that sunnie doesn’t believe that shitties are Muslims may seek peace in Dustbin. There is no place for sect system in Islam, there is no Shia sunny in Qur’an.

    Qur’an 3:105
    And do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.

    Qur’an 6:159
    Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects – you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

    Any one who makes sects in Islam will go to Hell. That’s why Lord said hold the Quran and don’t get divided.

    Qur’an 3:103
    And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided.

    Regarding your previous Question’s which shows how scientific knowledge you possess, it’s proved that Plant’s feel pain. And I wonder why don’t you stop brushing teeth, washing because you kill 1000s of living organisms their also.
    Why don’t working against Rat poison or Hit or Sprays which kill Mosqitos. It seems Hindus only work upto cow beef.

    -Raghavendra
    1. Aamir khan even if have refused script, director and producer would have done film with another actor like in OMG with Akshay Kumar. And why don’t questioning Anuska and 99% other’s who were Hindus their.

    2. Qur’an doesn’t permit marrying non-Muslims by I want to see where your Vedas allow it especially when it says to kill non-vedantists (Rig veda 12:5:62)

    3. It just proves Vashi Quoting top 3 actors hardly prove anything.

    4. Yes that’s a separate topic.

    5. So this is a Nationalist sit. Hmm, that’s why it has written so much against Islam.

    And Vedas teach nothing. Debate with me on my Google+ Account on vedic practices. You can use anything Satyart Prakash, agniveer articles and get…

    • hello sir jazib. you gave a reerence rig veda 12/5/62. there is nothing like that. there are only 10 mandalas in rig veda.there cant b any “12/5/62”.

    • Jazib,
      I meant PK will attack only other religions and false practices of Shia, Ahmediyya or Ibadi, not the false practices of sunni

      killing cockroaches and mosquitoes is also sin. Who said its not a sin? but compared to killing cow it is less.

      killing germs in teeth I don’t know,I am not sure what they feel . but plants have no nervous system and brain. Also plants have no evolutionary benefit by feeling pain.it is not scientifically proven yet that plants feel pain.

      plants do respond to stimuli. When cut they grow more. Same is the case with our body. When exposed to sunlight our body produce more melanin. When we shave body responds by increasing hair growth.

  37. i wrongly pasted my comments elsewhere.

    first of all i did’nt saw PK. but i did saw some scenes. What i understood was that PK makes a little fun of muharram- especially the ritual where participants inflict self pain. However we must understand that pathans of India and predominantly muslims of north india (and pakistan too) are hanafi sunni muslims.

    sunnis make fun of shiite practises, and portray themselves as secular and liberal , but the fact is they do not consider shiites as true muslims. So its kind of hitting two targets in one shot.

    poor iranians are blamed for whatever wrong in islam

  38. -Sunita
    I don’t whether you were addressing me or not but since you were telling false thing’s so I would respond to it.
    First it doesn’t matter How many Churches are there in Washington or India. Can’t they built 1000 more in Washington if they will.
    Don’t you know there are temples in outside India countries also including Washington as well as United Arab Emirates and other’s. So nothing great but India has restricted Muslim’s from Celebrating Bakara Eid should be Mentioned here and How our people were ruthlessly killed in Assam, Gujrat etc etc.

    You said no Muslim opposes ISIS. We do, it’s you who don’t. Hasn’t Agniveer written against ISIS and Osama bin Laden and never against Ulfa and RSS, he is a big example himself.

    That’s wrong for a Hindu to visit a Mazar just like Muslim’s, like ApJ visit in Temple is wrong. No point Proved here. All bollywood Indian Muslim’s visit which is wrong. So what’s point here.

    And you say Hinduism is most tolerant. Ofcouse it isn’t.
    Every Scholar of Arya Samaj (atleast once) has written a book against Islam, sometimes also against Christianity. This seems to one of Fundamentals of their religion.
    Agniveer also has written many.

    Can you show one video where Zakir Naik has said against Vedas. Like Vedas is wrong, it says this and that.
    Just one!

    You can’t because he never did and he know’s that there is no need for that.
    And you talk about tolerance.

    Agniveer writes for France, what happened there happens in Palestine everyday. How many has he written for them. Isn’t he an Islamphob.

    Your liar can’t answer what does this article has to do with religion. Again against a Muslim. Why didn’t He wrote against anuska Sharma first.

    And PK was made by Hindus against their own religion. Pk2 and Pk3, why making against our religion.

    They didn’t consider their religions holy so they can make whatever they like against themselves and it’s not the First time. Before it…

    • Islam was unknown to the world during earlier times, now because of the internet, everybody knows about islam. Those Hindu Saints wanted to know about islam, but when they read your scriptures they came to know that there is nothing like spirituality in it. Hence they wrote about the true face it shows.
      You guys don’t know anything in your scriptures as it is written in arabic. Even the arabs have become apostates (atleast 5%) , and also started a magazine of apostates, you are free to search on the net.

  39. Someone posted this statistics. I am reposting it here.

    Here are 3 lakh mosques in India.
    No other country in the world has these many mosques.
    There are only 24 Churches in Washington.
    71 Churches in London.
    There are 68 Churches in the city of Milan in Italy.
    While in Delhi alone there are 271 churches.
    And you call a Hindu communal.
    Further I have not come across an Indian Muslim opposing ISIS.
    But we have millions of Hindus who are opposing views of RSS.
    I have not seen any Muslim holding party on Holi or Diwali festivals for Hindus, but have seen Hindus holding iftar for Muslims during Ramadan.
    I saw Indian flags being burnt in Kashmir by Indian Muslims.
    But never saw an Indian Muslim burning a Pakistan flag.
    I have seen Hindus wearing topis and visiting Mazars.
    But I have neither seen nor heard an Indian Muslim applying tilak on his forehead and visiting temples.
    This is called Hindu tolerance and respect for other religious community.

    • Islam was unknown to the world during earlier times, now because of the internet, everybody knows about islam. Those Hindu Saints wanted to know about islam, but when they read your scriptures they came to know that there is nothing like spirituality in it. Hence they wrote about the true face it shows.
      You guys don’t know anything in your scriptures as it is written in arabic. Even the arabs have become apostates (atleast 5%) , and also started a magazine of apostates, you are free to search on the net.

  40. Amir has become Amir only because he could earn 55 crores from PK because India is tolerant country. Can he make the PK2 for Islam, PK3 for christ, PK4 for terror.

    If he has guts, let him make one episode on Islam and terrorism for his Satya Mev Jayate show.

  41. -Vashi
    Although I am not a fan of Amir khan but some Charges put on him are false, other’s I don’t know neither am I interested in him. Because he doesn’t decide any faith for our religion like those Pandits recently caught in rape cases.

    Anyway
    6th point is useless, it’s based on film PK(Hindu producer and director) , they made such dialogues. And 99% of staff of PK are Hindus. So put Charges on them.
    But anyway Temple is certainly a wrong number and also those going two Ajmer THINKING IT WILL DO SOMETHING which have no place in Islam.

    4th point is also not good. Do you Consider that Woman a Hindu or Amir khan as Muslim. First tell me that, because Qur’an clearly condemn’s marrying to a PAGAN WOMAN and I don’t think Vedas must be giving permission to a woman marrying the man of other religion.

    3rd tells that you have brought rankings from some source which shows 3 khans are at top 3 positions respectively. Why don’t you post top 3 female rankings of Indian bollywood.

    And 3rd and 4th doesn’t give a slight hint that he should leave Hinduism.

    2nd is a poor concept of vedantists suggesting Animals feel pain.
    Initially it was they are living creatures now after discoveries trend has changed and it’s they feel pain. But since it’s also discovered that Plants feel pain, now it’s about inflicting less pain. Anyway this point also doesn’t prove why he is insecure in India.

    Wait!
    What does this RELIGIOUS(assuming) site has to do with whether Aamir khan is safe in India or not.

    It seems since Vedas are punctured everywhere therefore they thought of writing irrelevant topics outside religion having no relationship with religion at all.
    Plus interference in other’s lives.

    -Saroj
    Please see whether there is an Arya samaji who hasn’t written books against other religion’s or not and then talk.

    • Point #1: Aamir Khan could have opposed to such hateful dialogues or scripts made for the movie. But he didn’t. And people watch Aamir Khan as prominent figure in the movie, doesnt matter who scripted it. Aamir is the Brand Ambassador of the movie.

      Point #2: Why should any book restrict its followers from marrying Followers of other discipline. If your insisting secularism in everything, why not in Marriages too? What is Qur’an’s problem with Muslim marrying Pagans? Pagans aren’t humans?

      Point #3: Top 3 actress Rankings? How can it prove your point? Please elaborate.

      Point #4: Talk about double standards of popular figures. Veg or Non-Veg is a separate debate.

      Point #5: This isn’t a Religious Site. I suppose this is more of a Nationalist Site. I can make many points why Core Hindus are not Religious. And this Aamir is insulting our Nation. Myself, this site, and every Citizen have every right to question Aamir in this regard. If Aamir Khan can question the Nation, why shouldn’t us question him?

      Note: Qur’an controls, Vedas Educate. That’s the difference. How? Find it yourselves.

    • Jazib,
      Plants feel pain :- i think i didnt comment so far on this subject. plants are living and have soul according to hinduism but plants feel pain is not yet proven. This is still open

      plants respond to stimulus- Accepted. But plants have no nervous system and brain- not yet discovered . Also plants have no need to fail pain. they cannot run away. from evolution standpoint no need to feel pain.

      But as i said no one is hundered % sure. Debate is going on and on

  42. This is the biggest intolerance that u are blaming AAMIR KHAN(muslim) on suggestion of his wife KIRAN RAO (hindu) to leave india.
    U ppl will really make india an intolerance country. Desh ko kha rahe ho usse accha h Tatti kha lo suaro.

    • @Shoyab

      Your comment is being sent to police for threatening and abusing us on our page. We take threats very seriously.

      @others, please don’t reply to Mr Shoyab’s comment. Let the law deal with it..

      • So u do not have dare to talk about equality. Go man and do ur own work. U are not social. No place here for this type of ppl or page hear who spread hatred on social media.

      • It is ur think for every indian muslim. But we put our country and religion in our heart equally.
        And ppl like u we put on the ground with pigs. Coz they eat tatti.

      • PIGV KO YAH SIFAAT[GUN] KISNE DIYA VAHI KALPIT ALALH NE!
        JO BHI LOG MANS KHATE HAI JITNE SAAL KA JANVAR UTNE HISAAL SE GANDGI[TATTI] USKEM PET ME THODI BAHUT RAHATI HAI
        PET JANVAR KO YA INSAN KA VAH TO GANDGI KA BHANDAR HOTA HAI ! FIRE KOIN BHI MANS KYO KHAYA JAYE
        ANDE BHI YONI MARG GANDE RASTE SE NIKALTE HAI !

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