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UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

PayPal
[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

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What does Agniveer stand for?

Agniveer
By Agniveer
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

The Agniveer site today contains a vast number of articles on various topics. It is difficult for one to assess the stance of Agniveer by reading just a few articles. While we have made our overall goal and vision clear through Site Name, Tag Line, Footer Statement, About page and Disclaimer sections, we feel it would be worthwhile to spell our stand on various issues slightly more specifically so as to dispel any confusions.

Foundation – Agniveer believes in universal humanism and refuses to accept any discrimination whatsoever on basis of religion, caste, gender, geography, race. We believe in one humanity, one family and one religion of humanity. This is the Vedic Dharma which encompasses all human beings without any discrimination.

1. Agniveer believes in Vedic Dharma as detailed in Vedic Religion in brief and accordingly in peace, tolerance, character and unity on foundations of truth and honesty. If anyone has any objections to it, we are more than eager to discuss and refine. But no one ever found any defect in it.

2. Agniveer believes Vedas – the first texts of humankind – to be obtained through inspiration of Ishwar. It does not believe in any other text to be divine. There are various compelling reasons to conclude so.

3. However, Agniveer does not believe in forcing people to blindly adopt Vedas. This is against the fundamental tenets of Vedas. The acceptance of Vedas as divine should come as a conclusion and not as an initial assumption – this is the essence of Vedas. Thus we believe that all those people who are not yet convinced of Vedas being divine are still noble and virtuous people if they follow the dictum of “Accept truth, reject the rest” and consider entire world as their own family.

4. Each individual may have his or her own viewpoint and hence it is natural that there are differences in viewpoints of Agniveer and innumerable other people, groups and cults. Agniveer favors a path of intellectual discussions rooted in familial bonding to reconcile any differences. Vedic Dharma is for entire humanity, so even if someone disagrees to us, our approach would be same as what happens among different members of the same family.

Vedic dharma is same for all humans regardless of their caste, creed, birth, gender, geography or even other belief systems so far they desire peace and bliss for all and do not push doctrines through force or deceit.

5. Agniveer believes that the 8 fold path of Yoga is the way to worship Ishwar or progress spiritually or gain true success and happiness in life. The 8 fold path is:

Yam – Non-violence, Truth, Non-Stealing, Non-Hoarding, Self-control
Niyam – Purity of thought and mind, Self-satisfaction, Putting greatest efforts, Introspection and Self-Education, Dedicating everything to Ishwar by dissolving the ‘I’
Asan – Ability to focus peacefully for prolonged time without getting impatient or physical debilities
Pranayam – Control over breathing patterns
Pratyahar – To be able to dissociate mind from external disturbances
Dharana – Focus on Ishwar and his properties
Dhyana = Continuation of this focus with deep contemplation at emotional as well as logical levels
Samadhi – Achieving the state of feeling the Ishwar without any distractions.

6. Agniveer believes in an evolutionary approach and considers that brute force approach can have the opposite implication. Thus the Agniveer approach is that of spreading intellectual and emotional awareness in most honest and peaceful manner.

7. Agniveer is strongly against birth-based caste system. And it considers that those who support it and justify denying equality of social and political rights to certain sections of people based on their birth are greatest enemies of humanity. Agniveer completely rejects all such people and all those false texts that support such shameful concepts.

8. Agniveer is strongly against those perverts and their perverted texts which consider women to have inferior rights compared to men. Vedas put women at highest pedestal and those who deny so are greatest enemies of humanity.

9. Agniveer firmly believes in concept of ‘Matruvat Paradareshu’ – all women except one single wife are equivalent to mother. It thus condemns everyone who consider women otherwise, regardless of religion, caste, society or any other man-made demarcation. It is also strongly against the entire media/ glamor/corporate/ film/ sports mafia of today that projects women as objects of lust. We consider this mafia to be the disease of the society.

Vedas state that those who earn by exploiting women should be severely punished. We oppose both incarceration of women through purdah/ burqah as well as their commercial exploitation in name of entertainment as commoditization of motherly force and strongly oppose it.

10. We completely reject the fake translations of Vedas by likes of Griffith and Max Muller. We are trying to get useful books on understanding Vedas through Downloads section. But we want to make it clear that Vedas cannot be interpreted literally using modern language. Vedic mantras are like formulae concealing truly deep essence that require deep introspection, a bit of understanding of the ancient language and ‘feeling’ the mantras rather than trying to interpret them mechanically. Vedas do not contain history or specific time bound instructions but only fundamental principles.

11. Agniveer does not claim to be Arya Samaji as alleged by many. This word ‘Arya Samaj’ has today lost its original essence due to misdirected ways of certain representatives of Arya Samaj in recent times. We however are in complete sync with the ‘original mission’ of Arya Samaj as elaborated by Swami Dayanand Saraswati who is a role model for us. Thus we are ‘Arya Samaji’ if you go by the root meaning and original mission, but not so if you want to draw any allegiance to current ‘organization’. To avoid confusions, we prefer to call ourselves only ‘Arya’ or ‘Vedic’ or ‘Agniveer’ – a word derived from vedic roots.

12. Agniveer does not believe in closed-mindset. We never claim our word to be final word of Ishwar. Hence we are open to discussions and invite all intellectuals to freely share their thoughts. The only topics on which we disallow discussions are birth-based caste system, justifying denigration of women and explicitly abusive posts.

13. Criticism does not imply hatred. We debate even with our parents and siblings and differ vocally in viewpoints but that does not mean we hate them. Similarly while we may have a large number of articles questioning prevailing viewpoints, we request everyone to not construe them as emanating from hatred.

14. Yes, we are on a conversion drive. We call it a ‘Shuddhi’ movement. We want to obtain commitment from as many people as possible to adopt Vedic Dharma as enlisted in Vedic Religion in Brief. We have already been doing so and would continue doing that albeit with more concentration. There is no bar of caste, gender or religion for this. Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc – everyone is welcome to embrace this original Vedic Dharma for entire humanity and be herself/himself a messiah of Peace, Equality, Character, Principles and Duties. In in process open doors for limitless success, happiness, charisma, excitement, enthusiasm, prosperity and purpose in life. Vedic religion is not a religion in conventional sense. Any person belonging to any religion is follower of Vedic religion if he or she believes in principle of universal brotherhood, truth, non-violence, compassion, equality and tolerance. Even belief in Vedas – the books – being divine is not a prerequisite. A person, who has not even heard of Vedas, is also a follower of Vedic Dharma if he or she adheres to core principles of truth, non-violence, compassion, accountability of actions, universal brotherhood and other noble traits discussed above.

15. Finally, Agniveer is not an individual and not even a group. It is a concept. We often mix between ‘I’ and ‘We’ because we believe in unity of spirit and hence apart from semantic difference, they both imply the same for us. If you agree with our overall vision and mission, even you are an Agniveer for us.

I request all our visitors to review the content of Agniveer in context of this overall stand. You may agree with or differ with us, fully or partially, but let not intellectual difference translate into difference in affection. Entire humanity is one family for us.

May we never hate each other
May we never wish evil for each other
May we never condemn anyone of us in Hell
May we only wish for each others’ well-being even if we differ
May we be mature enough to freely express ourselves and yet not create hostility
May we enjoy our togetherness as one family
May we continue to love each other as a mother cow loves its calf
May Peace, Tolerance, Truth, Cooperation be our weapons

May we have Shanti everywhere.

Om Shantih Shantih Shantih!

This post is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/agniveer-stand-hindi/

This post is also available in Gujarati at  http://agniveer.com/agniveer-stand-gu/

Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

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154 COMMENTS

  3. Agniveer has really put on the net a vast information about Hinduism and other religions which is difficult to find sometimes. It is time for a democratic civilisation like the Hindu civilisation to come up. We cannot afford a fascist civilisation which smothers and stiffles the point of view of others. It is only the Hindu civilisation which allows a difference of opinion, difference in way of worship, belief and leaves it to the individual to worship any god or goddess or not to worship any. Therefore the world needs a democratic civilisation otherwise it is only a second away from a nuclear disaster.
    A.L.Rawal

  6. It’s great that this article has a link from every article on the site

    hope this helps posters on the site to put their arguments with the right perspective

  7. Vedic Dharma==Manav Dharma

    http://www.aryanlife.com/ebooks/pdf/beliefs_and%20_principles.pdf

    There has been lot of discussions on scriptures–whether a particular book is a revelation of God. The truth is that revelation is an ongoing process and God constantly reveals the secrets of the universe through scientists and noble people–such as revelation of law of motion/gravitation through Newton.

    Similarly we all know that there is something called “inner voice”. This “inner voice” warns us whenever we try to do something wrong in our life–it is a different thing that sometimes we tend to ignore this “inner voice” ( or veil as per Quran). This “inner voice” is nothing but “voice of God” that advices us against doing wrong things.

    The same “inner voice” told Moolashankar ( who became Dayanand) at the age of 14 that “Shiva Linga” was not “God”. This was not a small incident since this was the first revelation to Dayanand against “idolatory”–it changed his life forever and he left home to find “The Truth”—that finally resulted in the form of his book “light of Truth” ( Satyarath Prakash).

    I want to make one confession here. I was born in an AryaSamaji family but I was non-vegetarian to start with. I became vegetarian when I was 9 or 10 year old–it was an inner voice that convinced that there was something wrong in eating meat and no one could later convince me otherwise.

    You can not change the opinion of others through arguments. Once I was in Dusseldorf, Germany and I met a German who was vegetarian. I was bit curious and asked him regarding the reason for him being vegetarian. He gave a very simple answer–we are not carnivorous animals like Lion and it is not normal for humans to consume meat. I got my answer–his “inner voice” convinced him. On the other hand I have met many Hindus from Brahmins families who even meet Beef. I have finally realized that you can not convince someone through arguments.

    It seems to me that Agniveer is trying to bring back people back to Vedic Dharma–it can only be done in a positive way by educating people about Vedic Dharam instead of criticizing other religion –in fact I do not think that conversion is at all needed. If someone comes back to Vedic Dharma then it will only be by listening to his/her “inner voice”–not through message board discussions. God has given us Brain with analytical power–it is up to me whether I accept truth and renounce untruth.

    Satayarath Prakash has done critical analysis of all religions including Hinduism. We have to understand that Dayanand was born at a time when the things were extremely bad in our country and we were slave of others. Arya Samaj is a Hindu reform movement–not Islam reform movement–the goal is to bring back Hindus into Vedic Dharma first. He had held debates only with orthodox Hindus of Kashi–he believed in cleaning his home first before inviting others. I do not think that you have to invite people to your home anyone since people will automatically come to your house if your house is clean. Lot of people in west are adopting vegetarianism, yoga and meditation in their lives–not idol worship. I do not think that any kind of conversion or Suddhikaran is needed. I do not think they they are converting or adopting vedic names–they are simply adopting these “universal” principles in their lives

    Baba Ramdev is doing this in his own ways by educating people about Yoga and Meditation–similarly Swami Agnivesh is doing by working among downtrodden people.

    • If Agniveer team really believe that lot of Hindus are converting to other religions in large numbers–this presents a very good opportunity to your team–this shows some Hindus are not happy with existing practices in Hinduism and are spiritually starved–giving u a very fertile ground–bring them back to Vedic Dharma–do not let go this opportunity 🙂

    • I want to make one last point here. Agniveer team says that we are educating people of other religions about their shortcomings–we will take care of things like birth-based caste system and idolatry later.

      Can i tell others regarding their dirty home ( let us assume that their house is even dirtier than mine) before cleaning my house first? If my house is dirty then people will come to my house automatically. Agniveer team first want to bring others to their home and then clean their home.

      Why do so many Indians migrate to western countries?–because there is no corruption–things are in order.. Similarly if people are changing ( assuming it is happening in large number) their religions then it basically shows that people are spiritually starved–since there is no forced conversion.

      • @Sanjeev Verma

        The HOME of Agniveer is pretty clean ..It does not believe in idolatry or birth based caste system..it’s this home to which EVERYBODY is being invited.

        You feel jealous of the fact that Agniveer has chosen Muslims to come home first..you do not sound like a well wisher of muslims at all 🙂

        Hindus may have their homes unclean, but they are not on a mission to CONVERT others to the same behavior..neither they are blowing themselves up across the world to see to it that every home in the world is unclean in their own way !

        I Request Agniveer to not absorb Sanjeev Verma’s confusion on priorities …History has given us a very bitter lesson ..we must ensure that it does not repeat itself.

        Sanjeev Vermas will keep trying to derail the initiative ..despite the education provided to them that agniveer does have articles against caste sytem ..,.despite being told that CASTE SYSTEM IS A CULTURAL MALAISE OF INDIA AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE

        Muslims follow it, Hindus Follow it, Indian Jews are victims of it(black jews) , Christians follow it (so much so that the graveyards are different in south)

        But Sanjeev Vermas , would ignore these obvious facts because their purpose is to defend a particular falsity tooth and nail ..they stand to defend it

        You stand to defeat all falsities ..i am 100% with you Agniveer ..ignore the suspect supporters of a particular doctrine

    • I like point 12 in this article and I hope that there will be more articles on spirituality and yoga instead of criticisms of other religions in this website.

      • @Sanjeev

        I respect your points that we should bring people back to the Vedic Dharma, and indeed we are doing this till now. As far as the caste system goes, if you noticed, it is slowly decreasing, and hopefully in another 10 years, it will become history. As far as idol worship is concerned, it is not harmful to humanity as much as the caste system. Any idol worshipper simply proves to be stupid because he she is specifically told in Vedas that Ishwar does not have any form, yet if he she wants to believe let him or her. It is not part of our Vedic Dharma to go and break their idols, this kind of fanaticism only happened in islam. We have to slowly convince them that worshipping Ishwar in a formless manner is the only correct way. We cannot sit on their heads and force them to worship a formless Ishwar otherwise what will be the difference between us and muslims??? Force or compulsion is strongly against Vedas.

        The caste system will finish on its own, and our next concern is islam. Islam claims to take over india in the next five years, so we have to battle islam first, and idol worship is not a big threat to us at the moment. And as far as the caste system goes, its on its way to finish, hopefully within the next five years it will completely diminish.

        Let me remind you that our criticism is only for fanatics, not peace loving people. Our harshness is only for religions that curse other non believers to hell.

      • Brother Vik,

        Namaste

        He would not understand , you must understand that he has come in defense of a religion

        Even if he is shown the fact that the idolatrous Marathas and Rajputs ensured for 400 years that the ghazis could not take over India …even if he is educated on the fact that the idolaters which the early invaders killed were predominantly BUDDHISTS …[ the Arabic/Urdu word ‘BUT’ is a distortion of ‘Buddha’] who believed in peace to a fault

        Even if he is eduacted that Muslims have ashrafs , arzals, ansars, and so many other castes, even if is told that dalit christians,tribal christianas and brahmin christians have different graveyards and prayer halls in south india ..he still believes the caste system is a hindu evil and not a south asian cultural malaise.

        He also is unaware of the changing dynamics of India ..the government has itself ensured that there are laws against any inhuman practice of the caste system ..and as you rightly pointed out it’s on the wane ..caste has become immaterial at the town level ..in the next few years it will become irrelevant at the village level too

        So try to read between the lines bro ..there are more than one ways in which the doctrine in target is being defended ..and we must be aware of such indirect attempts

        best regards

      • @Indian Agnostic

        I agree brother, thanks for the suggestion. Caste system is a man made crap, and it exists in every religion.

      • Indian Agnostic,

        I have presented my view on a certain subject and obviously you do not agree with that view point. I do not understand the meaning of word “fanatic”–calling someone jehadi–just because you do not agree with that view point is also an example of intolerance.

        I have full faith in Agniveer team and I have always appreciated their postings on Vedic Dharma. I am glad that Agniveer team have clarified their stand in the latest posting. Also, I have full confidence that Agniveer team will change the focus of this website–it is already happening.

        Sanjeev

      • Indian Agnostic,

        I have not defended radical Islam in any of my posting. I have clearly said that I would like to see the end of all organized religions that includes Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. I have only talked about Vedic Dharma–in agreement with Agniveer team. My view point is that we need not panic ( regarding preposterous conversion number claims) and loose our real focus.

        We can also win the hearts of others by highlighting positive points of our Dharma ( as spelled out by Agniveer team) instead of criticizing other religions. The heated debate only leads to bitterness and use of abusive language. If a Muslim comes to this site and sees positive things about Vedic Dharma then he might decide to come back–his “inner voice” might convince him to come back.

        Sanjeev

      • Vik,

        I have never said that we should break Idols. My simple request is that we should not support any movement for the construction of temple or mosque. We should be neutral on this issue. We consider Ram to be a national hero–not God. Also, we should be vocal regarding our opposition to Idol Worship.

        I fully agree with Agniveer team’s stand on on Vedic Dharma–however we should also realize that popular Hinduism does not subscribe to this view. We need to first work among Hindus before bringing others. I have gone through message board discussions–I have not seen anyone accepting defeat–i have only seen people abusing each-other.

        I think that we should not simply hope that caste system will go away. We need to actively work towards that. I also know that caste discrimination still remains even after the conversion.However, it is also true that missionaries are active among Dalits and most of the Dalits convert to other religions because they hope to get a better social status. One suggestion is–everyone subscribing to Arya Samaj view point should change their family name to “Arya”–I am seriously thinking about that–people determine your caste from your family name.

        I hope that Agniveer team will take my suggestion in a positive manner.

        Sanjeev

      • Arya Samaj is the part of the Sanatan Dharma only and you cannot deny it.
        When I talk of Veda- it respects both Sagun and Nirgun form of worship.
        Sagun-which you call idol and however I call it pratima as ‘idol’ means false and ‘pratima’ means the ‘shadow’ of God himself.
        when you read various verses from vedas u do get confused as this debate is going for centuries of ‘nirgun vs sagun’ even among themselves whom who translated Vedas-the ultimate knowledge.
        It is as simple as that.
        To start with one must start with a Sagun form of worship (though it’s not a dead rule) bcoz it enhances your meditation to the another level.
        Of Course with Nirgun form of worship you also meditate upon ‘Nirgun Brahm’ (which is not at all easy if I say it not difficult).
        You can relate to the deity of your choice in case of Sagun form.
        After some time when you advance to a certain level you automatically does not need that Sagun form.

        Even Muslims unknowingly oppose us as they don’t know why they oppose to Murti-poojan…(it is there in Christianity).
        For more clarifications reply me …I’ll try to solve your issues with the Sanatan.
        Please understand that we all are Sanatan Dharmis…Arya Samaj/Brahmo Samaj or even buddhism was only formed to save Sanatan and after that it has been corrupted by their followers.

      • गुण दो प्रकार के होते हैं।एक अच्छे व दूसरे बुरे।सगुण का अर्थ है गुणों के साथ।अर्थात हम ईश्वर की स्तुति उसके गुणों के साथ करें।जैसे हे इश्वर आप बहुत दयालु हैं,आप सर्वशक्तिमान है।और निर्गुण स्तुति में ईश्वर के गुणों को न बताकर उसका गुणगान किया जाता है।जैसे ईश्वर कभी झूठ नहीं बोलता है,ईश्वर कभी बलात्कार नहीं करता है इत्यादि।कृपया सत्यार्थ प्रकाश और महर्षि दयानन्द जी के ग्रन्थों का स्वाध्याय थोडा सा भी किया करें।प्रतिमा शब्द को यहाँ न घुसेडें।

      • @Vinay Arya/Agniveer
        _____और निर्गुण स्तुति में ईश्वर के गुणों को न बताकर उसका गुणगान किया जाता है।जैसे ईश्वर कभी झूठ नहीं बोलता है,ईश्वर कभी बलात्कार नहीं करता है इत्यादि।___
        Why not call them Durgun instead of Nirgurn. We can call them Durgun also like “ईश्वर कभी बलात्कार नहीं करता है”. God do not have Durgun. Why Nirgun? Please clear the concept.

      • Dear New to language
        My statement was “ईश्वर कभी बलात्कार नहीं करता है”.
        It shows that the Ishwar is free from Durgun i.e.ishwar does not do rapes.Not having durgun hence durgun word cannot be applied.Only nirgun word can be applied.

  11. From an article by Swami Agnivesh:

    All faithful Arya Samajists, can only feel betrayed by the treacherous collusion between the protagonist of the caste order and certain sections in the Arya Samaj, as in the reconversion hoax reported for Dindoli recently. The Arya Samaj priests are being used to reconvert ex-Hindus only because Brahmanical Hinduism has no place for converts. It is a way of neutralizing Christians and Muslims without compromising the caste order! Patronizing such a project amounts to a betrayal of the true legacy of Swami Dayanand Saraswati. Swamiji’s zeal for bringing back relapsed Hindus was matched by his revulsion for the caste order, which he sought to dismantle. This cost him his life. No Arya Samijist therefore can lend himself to anything that makes a mockery of Swamiji’s call “Back to the Vedas!” and his passion for reform. The more violence is practised to defend the caste system, the more Hinduism will get discredited in the eyes especially of the coming generation. In the days ahead we can no longer count on old loyalties and blind faith. An age of free choice, symbolized by the super market where people push trolleys of personal tastes, has already come upon us. We better improve the quality of our brand rather than cry wolf against other brands. If the Tatas had to do it in the field of automobiles, we may be unavoidable for us to address this urgent task in the religious sphere. At any rate, the rationale for conversion cannot be honestly abolished unless birth-based caste system is abolished. Concentrating on the aberrations of conversions and refusing at the same time to recognizing the extent to which caste oppression aids and abets conversions, is both unrealistic and dishonest.

    • I had listened to Swami Agnivesh speech when i was a small boy in calcutta. I do not subscribe to everything that he says but I do not have any doubt regarding his noble intention. You can access the full article at the following website:

      http://www.swamiagnivesh.com/back.htm

      There can always be difference of opinion but we should be ready to listen to others.

      • @Sanjeev Verma
        What do you have to say about his views on Islam, Christianity, homosexuality, Vande Matram, and above all his close relations with 10 Janpath? Why does he spew venom on hindus only? Do you know, he was expelled from Arya Samaj in 80’s? I hope instead of appeasing the greatest appeaser of terrorism, Agnivesh, you would do something substantial from now on. I know you will reply defending yourself by saying that we should listen to everybody! So please apply the same logic for idol worshippers too, who are the only people to be thrashed according to you and your Guru Agnivesh!

      • Brother Arya

        leave him, didn’t i say that he has come here with an agenda of a particular anti-national

        India will never forgive darhm-dushakas like agnivesh ..who coined the word saffron teeror, who demoralized our security forces , who lauded pakistan on 26 november (mumbai terror attacks), who can only be seen with communists and Abrahmic proseltyzers

        Shame on you agnivesh ..the corrupter of dharma in a swami’s disguise ..a dishonest , untruthful appeaser and servant of sonia maino

      • I already told that i did not agree with his views on everything and i once wrote to him regarding some of the issues but did hear anything from him.I have never met him after listening to his speech in person several years back in calcutta. However I always appreciated his work among downtrodden people. I posted this article because i thought that this article was logical. I believe in accepting truth–it does not matter where it comes from. I do not believe in making personal attack on anyone.

      • Also my knowledge about his recent activities is through press only. I myself would like to meet him sometimes and ask him regarding some of his controversial remarks on certain issues. He was a professor in St. Xavier’s colllege Calcutta before becoming an Arya Samaji Sanyasi. I would not believe in using abusive language against anyone even if i had disagreements with that person on certain issues.

        I have appreciated Agniveer team’s effort regarding their informative articles on vedas–simply Great work!!! I had disagreement on certain issues and i have expressed them. I am indeed happy that Agniveer team Has taken my comments in good spirit.

      • I have listened to the logic of Idol worshippers and i have an honest disagreement with them. Maharishi Dayanand’ journey towards Truth started because he did not any logic in Idol worship.

    • “According to research carried out by the respected Pakistani-born American Muslim Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus (1932 – 2007),[10] 75% of New Muslim Converts in the US leave Islam within a few years”

      more and more Americans are saying that they are spiritual–not religious.

  16. SpiritMag June ’08
    The Myth that Material Sciences are Based on Direct Perception – Part I

    Let us take stock of what we have discussed by now. We devoted the first ten articles on “Introduction to the Inner Sciences” – Vol. I, Nos. 1 through 10. Thereafter, we began to look within us and applied inner sciences to gain an understanding about human beings. We are a composite of body, mind and soul. Our soul is a point-like tiny entity; that is our true identity. It has intrinsic and inherent consciousness. Every conscious being in the universe is a distinct soul, and it must be so, because when X feels pleasure then Y may feel pain. So, X and Y must be two distinctly different souls. The union of soul with a gross body is our ‘birth’ and their separation is ‘death’. While our body is a gross structure made of matter, the soul is non-material. An intermediate domain of Mind connects them. Mind is our subtle body, too. It’s made of matter but of smallest sub-atomic particles. In our current nomenclature, the mind is within the brain but is different from the latter. The brain as such is a part of the gross body. In the last four articles, we have been discussing the human mind – probably, the most intriguing thing in the entire universe. We attempted to look within this ‘black box’ that our mind is. We noticed that there are three functional units, namely:

    1. Linkage: This is the first unit that connects to the gross body. It picks up knowledge signals brought in by our five senses – organs for knowledge – for sight, sound, smell, taste and touch. Likewise, in the outward direction, it activates the motor organs (hands, feet, speech, etc.) to ‘do’ something, called karma – our acts, works, and deeds.
    2. Memory: This is our storage device where any incoming knowledge is stored for future use. If the knowledge is not utilized for some length of time then it is likely to fade away (forgetfulness). More a particular knowledge is used, more likely is that it would be preserved. Furthermore, this unit transmits the data in either direction. Besides the incoming knowledge, it stores all that transpires through it, including the decisions we take in the next intellect unit. What we do habitually or in a sub-conscious manner without a careful application of ‘Mind’ emanates from this unit where every segment of our ‘personality’ is preserved, such as, the way we put our signatures.
    3. Intellect: This is the tiniest (material) particle existing in nature. This is where the incoming knowledge signal is ‘displayed’ – so to say, it is a ‘screen’ while the memory unit functions as a projector. It is in closest proximity of the soul. The soul continuously ‘watches’ it when we are awake or dreaming, and thus, remains connected to the material world. This is our discerning/ discriminatory ability. This is where we conclude that the person in front of me is X and not Y; I should do this and not that; and so many ‘decisions’ we take every moment.

    Let us now discuss two prominent methods that lead us to direct cognition (pramana) in our inquiry of a truth:
    1. Direct perception (pratyaksa) is based on direct contact between our sense organ and an object without any ambiguity. Suppose my eyes are open and have a normal vision and there is a person some distance away. Now, there is a direct contact between my eyes and the object, the person in this case. But, if it is dark then I will not be able to ascertain who that person is. So, there must be adequate light. Now, if the person is too far away then I will not be able to conclude who the person is: I may end up saying that he is X or Y. Therefore, direct perception is based on certain cooperative parameters besides direct contact between the sense organ and the object so that there is no possibility of any ambiguity.
    2. Inference (anumana): Suppose that we are indoors. We see through a window that it is raining and we conclude that there must be clouds up in the sky. In this case, although we are unable to see the clouds yet we are certain about their existence. Existence of clouds is as true as the rain is. Our knowledge about the rain is based on direct perception while that of the existence of clouds is based on inference in the present case. However, the inference is based on a number of events that were observed through ‘direct perception’ in past when the observer noticed the correlation that whenever it rains there are clouds up in the sky. That is, a number of identical observations based on direct perception in past have led one to conclude by inference.

    The layperson thinks that direct perception is a superior basis of cognition than inference is. We must now digress slightly to emphasize that our life revolves around inference to a much greater extent than one would think. Life is basically to get away from pain – perceived or expected. We instinctively want to get away from pain and, if possible, we seek pleasure. For this, we make efforts. Most of the times, we are trying to take care of the expected situations that may lead us to pain and those expectations are based on inference. For example, at the end of a working day, we are returning home early evening. We are not hungry at this point of time. But we walk into a grocery store and buy foodstuffs on the way. Then we cook food though we might not be quite hungry yet. We bought grocery and cooked food in advance because we anticipated hunger later in the evening. These acts were performed based on inference that ‘we will feel the pinch of hunger later in the evening today as we did so many days in our life, and therefore, let us prepare food in advance.’ If we went by direct perception alone then we would return home direct from office. When the pain of hunger strikes us, then we go to the grocery store to buy foodstuffs and then cook food. Obviously, the latter way is not an intelligent way to function. If we closely examine our life then we would find that we function mostly in ‘advance mode’ in anticipation of so many things that are known to us by inference. There is no need to belittle one method over the other – both (direct perception and inference) are essential ways for us to function.

    Now in this background, we want to examine our way of knowing material things and non-material things. Even among material things, only gross things are subject to our senses. For example, we cannot see sub-atomic particles such as electrons, protons, etc. Their existence is ascertained by scientists through inference. They see a particular behavior in a spectroscopic diagram and they attribute that behavior to a particular particle. In this context, we are told that Heisenberg’s Principle of Uncertainty precludes us to know a particle thoroughly and accurately. If we knew its position well then we wouldn’t be able to know its velocity and vice versa. So, there are theoretical limits to what we can know and how accurately over and above the fact that fine particles could be known through inference only because they are not amenable to our sense organs.

    Next month, we will remark that even the so-called direct perception of gross objects is not quite a direct perception. It is actually the case similar to that of inference.
    – Dr Harish Chandra
    B. Tech. (IIT Kanpur)
    Ph. D. (Princeton, USA)

    CIS News
    1. Google Group: We are pleased to send the February 2008 article of SpiritMag as we transfer our mailing list to this new Google group.

    2. Old Articles: Dr Harish Chandra’s previous SpiritMag articles may be seen at http://groups.google.com/group/spiritmag?lnk=srg

    4. CIS website:
    Our website http://www.centerforinnersciences.org is currently being redesigned.

  17. We should spread Love everywhere without any condition like 3 C’s (Caste,Creed,Colour).
    in simple words “Unconditional love”.

  18. Great Work Agniveer…
    Your description about “Special notes on Islam and Christianity” is a big Joke man. Here you are giving an information or pretending that do not care about false spread news..We are preparing and spreading always like this…..???..I think You feel yourself born supremo to judge about other religion and religious scholars..Yaa We found so many scholars in recent past they made Indians proud “Swami Nityananda” and “Kanchi Kama Koti” almost vedic followers…..Great work man Go ahead …

    • Dear AM,

      Nityanand is one step better than Muhammad. Atleast he had consensual sex with a grown up female. Contrast this with Muhammad who raped a 6 yr old kid, as per your quran and hadiths

      • Dear Amitji,
        You attempted to spread your half baked knowledge..Why you are spreading lies???..For your info. Prophet (PBUH) married Aisha when she was 9 Years Old.
        She was 9 when they got Married.
        And she was a Mature young Woman.. no longer a Girl.

        And Today’s Accepted Signs of Physical Maturity for Girls is Menstruation.
        Therefore, a Girl is No longer a Child if she reaches Physical Maturity with Menstruation. And she was reported to have passed that.

        Here is a 9 yr old girl mature to get pregnant..
        http://izreloaded.blogspot.com/2007/03/9…

        And many more.. but this is an example..

        Mohammed (peace be upon him) was an Honorable Prophet who Conveyed Allah’s Message to the World with Exalted Manners and besides him a Mature Wise Young Woman who was a Wife, and a great Scholar in Islam.

      • Namaste AM,

        It’s you who needs to learn a lot about Islam as well as right age for marriage.

        i will just help you with one fact byte that Aisha was prepubescent when Muhammad slept with her.

        here’s prepubescent aisha playing with dolls in muhammad’s home
        http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.151
        Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

        now go back to your study table
        regards

      • Namaste Brother Indian Agnostic

        Great reply! BTW he might be allergic to study tables being the follower of an Ummi…

      • No My dear friend Vajra I already posted my Reply twice the coward editor is not posting because his mask may be torn…

      • Namaste Brother Vajra

        ha ha .. even if @AM bro spends as much time at the study table as he spends on the prayer mat , he could well avoid the embarrassment of being caught on the wrong foot

      • Brothers ..
        Our Study Table starts from Womb to Graveyard. Prayer mats are part of it.
        Even I believe that My WIn and Defeats are decided by Almighty god. Thats where we differ? Insha Allah..Go through My below Reply…

      • Namaste Brother AM
        Its not just your defeat but defeat of all Muslims in front of a sane person has been pre decided by Allah in Lohe Mehfooz. Cant understand why our Muslim friends do Dawah if Kufra is gifted to Kafirs by none other than Allah!

        Just asking, if I dont read your below reply, will it be as per Allah’s will?

      • @Mr.Vajra
        For Your First paragraph In front of you one of your brother is leading in wrong path..You know that you cannot pull him away forcefully from that path at least you can tell him what is the right path..Choosing a Right or Wrong path is up to him. Thats what Dawa means..Atleast whatever you are doing now is also Dawa but using in a wrong way. In Islam, da’wa means a “call” or “invitation,” and has been used to refer to a person being “called” to follow Islam. However, it has developed into the idea of a “mission” or “propaganda,” either in a political or religious sense.
        For your second paragraph your view is 100% true ..In this whole world there are people who doesn’t know about this site..somebody are there who doesn’t know about Internet..Somebody are there who doesn’t know about Computers..Just take me as an example ..Last week out of curiosity I entered this site..Allah has put a thought in my mind so I entered this site. This applies to reading or neglecting my reply also.
        “And whoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to the way of submission and obedience to Allah’s Guidance; and whoever Allah wills to misguide, He makes his breast constricted as though he is climbing up in the sky. Thus Allah puts the wrath on those who believe not.” [An Aam 6:125] ….Apart from this our own efforts are required to gain win here and hereafter is required my brother..Hope You understood.

      • Brother AM
        How do you know that you are on right path and I am on wrong?

        Is it not Allah, who has created many with sealed hearts and veiled eyes, the real culprit rather than Kafirs? What if I die before understanding Islam and thus without believing in it? Will I go to Jannat or Dozakh? What about those who die without getting any guidance from Allah?

      • @Brother Vajra,
        “”Is it not Allah, who has created many with sealed hearts and veiled eyes, the real culprit rather than Kafirs? What if I die before understanding Islam and thus without believing in it? Will I go to Jannat or Dozakh? What about those who die without getting any guidance from Allah?””

        I like your question…
        Really it is my pleasure to answer your question..In the Quran Allah clearly states that
        “[17:15] Whoever is guided, is guided for his own good, and whoever goes astray does so to his own detriment. No sinner will bear the sins of anyone else. We never punish without first sending a messenger.”
        It is part of the justice of Allaah that He does not punish any people until He has first sent a warning to them and unless there is evidence against them. Allaah does not treat anybody unfairly. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15].
        Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence against him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly. And Allaah is All-Seer of His slaves. So choose your path Brother Its up to you??
        Reference : http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/1244
        Now you cannot say I am in Wrong path!!!!

      • Brother AM
        1. “No sinner will bear the sins of anyone else”

        What about the born handicapped, many children who die in small age very painfully, many children suffering from diseases? What sins they committed to bear such worse consequences?

        2. There is just heaven or hell hereafter. So state clearly, what will happen to those like me who know about Islam, but could not find it logical? Will I be sent to hell to follow my inner voice and logic?

        3. Why did Allah not send messengers to every place so that all people would get His message? Why were Arabs so lucky? Why not Indians, Chinese, US, Russians, Europians who constitute more than 90% of the human population on earth?

        I have chosen my path already. I believe in One Eeshvar with which no person needs to be associated (unlike in Islam where Muhammad is as important to believe in as Allah to get Jannat). No idol/stone is worthy to be bowed down.

        Now I ask you what will you choose, Allah associated with Muhammad or Eeshvar alone? Blind belief or logic and rationality? Eternal hellfire or further chance to get improved? Wishful Allah or Complete and unchangeable Eeshvar?

      • I hv gone thru all the above & below comments & conversations. some immature and intolerant person entered here. I’m extremely sorry to say like this but it is true. Mr AM, you are lack of knowledge of your own religion. I suspect that you know all most all about your religion and it’s preacher as well, but you are trying to manipulate the fact in such a way how the humanitarian world accept it. If you want to debate such this type of sites, be learned of your own religion and then try to debate on humanitarian side(if your religion preaches it). here you entered criticizing agniveer concept and now you are in defensing mode, your half backed knowledge about your religion resulted this to you. Your half backed knowledge is damaging your religion’s reputation. it’s now proved ” half(backed) knowledge is always dangerous”. Now a days girls are maturing at the age of 12 to 15 years some even at 10 because of sexual tempting movies world wide, but in those days it was very difficult to be physically matured even at 18 years old. Try to learn about your religion,…completely….. All the best for your future debates.

  19. Dear Indian Agnostic and Vajra..
    I tried several times the Editor is not posting my message..May be he felt truth is bitter. Anyway I can summarize as follows: As per your claim Prophet(PBUH) never married Aisha just for the sake of sexual pleasure. Even though their marriage contract took place at the age of six their consummation of the marriage took place only after her puberty that is at the age of nine. If you imagine 9 years old girl with Indian physique in the sense you are totally wrong ..Because Before this marriage proposal with Prophet(PBUH) she had an engagement with Non-Muslim Jober Ibn Al-Moteam Ibn Oday. Back then, the people of Mecca did not object to Aisha’s engagement to Jober because ***”she was physically big enough and tall enough”*** to be considered for marriage. Refer this Hadith : ***Aishah, may God be pleased with her, narrated that the Prophet(P) was betrothed (zawaj) to her when she was six years old and he consummated (nikah) his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years. (Sahîh al-Bukhârî, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)*** .

    The toy dolls that existed before the 1700’s served chiefly as playthings for adults as well as for children. At that time, adults and children were more alike in their attitudes and interests than they are today, and childhood as we know it did not really exist. Youngsters were regarded as little adults and were expected to act like them. They shared the work of supporting the family with their parents. People of nearly all ages enjoyed the same simple toys, including dolls and jack-in-the-boxes. Most of the dolls were shaped and dressed like adults.

    Adults first came to regard childhood as a special time during the 1700’s and especially the 1800’s. The first dolls specifically for children probably were made in the 1700’s. The dolls themselves looked the same but could be dressed as babies, children, women, or men. In the West, the first doll to be designed as a baby appeared at the London Exhibition of 1851 and came from Japan.So on that period nothing wrong when the married women can play with dolls??? Still If you are having any doubts you can visit and watch:

    http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/refuting_sam_shamoun_s_arguments_regarding_the_prophet_s_marriage_to_aisha

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

    “By the way Study Tables are made for Open minded peoples Not for Prejudiced” …

    • Namaste AM

      1. I have heard that Muhammad used to hold Aisha on his shoulders so that she could see the shows. So if your words “she was physically big enough and tall enough” are to be true, Muhammad had to be a super man with unnatural physique! But I could not find any Hadith for such physique of Muhammad till now. I wonder if you could hold your “matured” wife on your shoulder in a gathering so that she can enjoy the show!

      2. Do you accept that Muhammad allowed his “matured” wife to play with dolls, no matter it was prohibited for Muslims?

      3. You say Arabs did not object to Aisha’s marriage in her small age and hence it is the proof that she was big enough to be married! Fine, so you accept that opinion of Arabs of that time could be the criterion for something to be acceptable. Now tell me, why then idol worship, drinking etc were opposed by Muhammad, which were widely accepted in Arabic culture? If you say that it was against morality and Allah’s will, please apply same logic in the case of Aisha’s age too where you want to get yourself safe behind the beliefs of ignorant idol worshipper Arabs.

      And next time when you wish to call others as “cowards”, keep in mind the fact that it is Muslims who dont even allow to preach non Muslims in Muslim countries, forget about conversion. They dont allow others in their countries but cry when they are given the taste of their own medicine i.e. stopped from preaching (hope you remember ban on Zakir Naik by UK) in non Islamic countries. This way, biggest cowards of the world are MUSLIMS and most coward cult is Islam.

      PS: Avoid giving more than two hyperlinks as well as using abusive language in your comment. These are the only ways your comment would have been blocked.

      • Mr.Vajra, Thanks for your reply. First of all I am having Very good friends in Arya Samaaja Bangalore. To be frank I appreciate their social service to the society especially in that region. I came to this site just by curiosity. To be frank I am not here to bash any other religion,s beliefs. Then Allah clearly says that “Dont blame other,s beliefs”. But when I gone through your whole site I experienced whatever your site preaches exactly different from personally I have seen through My friends in Bangalore. In other words You can preach your religion By saying “My Religion is Best” Not By saying “All others are Worst”. Because as per My little Knowledge Veda Itself says “Come to the Common point, Lead life with Unity”. And anyway Even If I prove all your points are false whether you are going to accept that it as Truth..No you are going to come up with another angle and another claim to divert the topic. Here My point is that even If I have to preach some body to be clear I have to preach the Truth and the Listener has to be oriented towards the Truth. By the Way By your last Reply itself I understood that You never gone through My quoted Hyper-links which clearly clarifies the doubts regarding point no2 and 3. Especially Point no3 you are twisting this issue with “Drinking and Idol Worship”. So I am confused whether you are supporting Vedas or Idol Worship?. Becasuse Veda itself denies Idol Worship. In other words It makes it clear that You are here to abuse Islam and its ideologies. Regarding your Point no1 Gigantic doesnt mean that girl looked like 25 years old when you compare with Average Indian 9 Years old girl she is quite big. So here If even If you consider Arabian physique during that time Prophet MOhammad (PBUH) would have been bigger than her to hold on her shoulders. By the way Even though I dont want to waste my knowledge with Unnecessary arguments with the group who are already prejudiced to bash my belief. First of all before preaching about your belief please come up clear that what you are going to preach…Anyway Even If We consider you are following vedas in the sense stop the followers who ever following below quoted puranas…For the Time Being Good bye..
        Bhavisya Purana 3:4:17:67-78
        Mahabharata I:203:15-26; cf. Skanda Purana 5:3:150:18, 6:153:2-27
        Padma Purana 4:101:174-9
        Brahmavaivarta Purana 4:47:11-45
        Padma Purana 1:56:15-53
        Satapatha Brahmana 12:7:1:10-12; 5:2:3:8
        I WOULD JUST ASK ALL HINDUS THIS QUESTION?
        WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN BETWEEN A GOD or GODS WHO RAPE THEIR OWN CREATION ????
        AND RUNS LUSTING FOR HIS OWN CREATION
        AND A GOD WHO IS FORMLESS , PURE AND FREE FROM ALL SINS..So Be clear before abusing any other religion..Even I dont like to type that stories here..Good Bye…Brother.

      • Namaste @AM

        rest assured , your post will remain permanently posted on this site…after all humor does play an important part in our lives ..and your post is a good source of amusement i must say

        to the difficult to hunt questions in your rhetoric , here are my two cents

        1. Truth is not a slave to text. So if you find any book (vedas, puranas, quran, bible) etc. going against facts, logic or reason ..simply discard and denounce such text.

        2. This site unambiguously states that its philosophy is not driven by puranas but vedas.So if you find anything objectionable there , please enlighten everybody.

        3.as to your discussion with Vajra on aisha’s consummation of marriage with Muhammad, it is proven that she was prepubescent at that time .that’s not all, Muhammad broke a good arab tradition of not marrying a man’s daughter whom you call your brother. Abu Bakr had indeed registered this with Muhammad when he asked for the 6 year old aisha for marriage.

        Sahih Bukhari
        Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
        Narrated ‘Ursa:
        The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said [b] “But I am your brother.” [/b] The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.
        http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.018

        the point here is that a Prophet is born is born to uphold good traditions and abolish bad ones. but in case of Muhammad of hadits , we find that he breaks even good traditions for sensual gratification. thats the painful point to take home 🙁

        Peace

      • 1) OK My friend You are agreeing that rest of your Hindu Brothers are Jokers in your point of view By the way you said like whatever I posted is amusement. In that case First you have to enlighten Hindu brothers with What the Veda Teaches Not abusing others.

        2) I fully agree to the Point no1

        3) “This site unambiguously states that its philosophy is not driven by puranas but vedas.So if you find anything objectionable there , please enlighten everybody.” I agree your view. Then you post at your site whatever I have discussed above also as a Topic and enchant that “Oh Hindu Brothers whatever you are following is not true..Veda is devine..Please dont follow the culprit saints etc etc etc…With authentic sources..Why your prejudiced ego stopping you or what?” Hope you will start some forums bashing idolaters, Rapists and Culprit Saints like “Swami Nityananda” to come towards Vedas????”. In otherwords expose your own loop holes first then come to others.

        4)
        Three reasons Prophet(PBUH) married Aisha..
        To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion, and was leader after prophet)
        To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.
        To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam. Even all these three reasons arises after the God,s order revealed through Quran. Aisha was a great scholar at the time. From the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: “You were shown to me twice in a dream. I saw that you were wrapped in a piece of silk, and it was said, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered her and saw that it was you. I said, ‘If this is from Allaah then it will come to pass.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3682). OK In that case If you consider the Hadith you have quoted “You are brother in Allah’s religion and his book, she is lawful for me to marry”..Go through Quran who are lawful to Marry by Prophet(PBUH)?..
        http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/8312/2/
        So Here out of question the problem and solution is clear that God order to do so Prophet(PBUH) has done it…Hope you got the answer!!!

      • Dear@AM

        1) I wont call hindus or muslims jokers , but “spiritually challenged” from my frame of reference 🙂

        But let me tell you the essential difference: The hindus have never imposed their theology on others with the sword but Islam has forced muslims to use the most barbaric ways to convert people.

        Hence priority dictates that the greater evil be addressed first for the benefit of humanity

        2) TY

        3) Please read the articles on the site. There are many articles and comments that debunk idol worship including idolatry in Islam (bending towards the kaaba, Hajj, kissing of black stone etc).Nithyanda case was discussed and he was castigated unequivocally by every Agniveer, irrespective of the inconsequential fact that a Christian Missionary had used blackmail to achieve the same.
        So please join us in denouncing idolatry of hinduism and islam 🙂

        4) //you say : “Three reasons Prophet(PBUH) married Aisha..
        To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion, and was leader after prophet)”//

        Look at this preposterous claim which contradicts itself.Abu Bakr was already his closest companion and pumped all his wealth in promoting the prophets religion.At 54 Muhammad could well have adopted baby aisha(6 years old) as his daughter !

        Instead, he broke the respectable tradition of not marrying a namesake brothers daughter for sensual gratification.the hadit is shared clearly shows that even abu bakr was take aback by such an immoral proposition.

        // “To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.”//

        what was wrong with fatimah or aisha being taught islam as daughters. Is Islam better understood in bed ?
        and needless to say , the people who carried forward Islam were Abu Bakr, Umar, Utham, Ali etc. ..what was the need of special bed lessons for a baby girl?

        //To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.//
        you mean to say that a 6 year old gal needs to married to a 54 year old guy to understand Islam ..what capacity is being utilized here if not sex? is that what Islam is all about !!??

        //Even all these three reasons arises after the God,s order revealed through Quran.//

        this is an unsubstantiated assertion which has been refuted on this site.read miracle-islam

        //Aisha was a great scholar at the time. From the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: “You were shown to me twice in a dream. I saw that you were wrapped in a piece of silk, and it was said, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered her and saw that it was you. I said, ‘If this is from Allaah then it will come to pass.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3682). OK In that case If you consider the Hadith you have quoted “You are brother in Allah’s religion and his book, she is lawful for me to marry”..Go through Quran who are lawful to Marry by Prophet(PBUH)?..
        http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/8312/2/
        So Here out of question the problem and solution is clear that God order to do so Prophet(PBUH) has done it…Hope you got the answer!!!//

        My friend, your belief cannot be your argument in a comparative religion discussion.You believe as a muslim that Muhammad was a prophet and Quran is a revelation of God..your opponent must not and does not . So stop giving this faulty argument that 54 year old Muhammad was ordered by Allah to marry a 6 year old baby because going by the hadits both muhammad and allah , in doing so, violated the moral standards of even 7th century arabia !!

        best regards

      • See As soon as you getting Real Answers you started the new meaning and new subjects to blame with ….Come on friend
        1) Islam spread through Sword in the sense By your own words Hinduism spread thorough what Blaming others, lies, Creating Caste Systems, Rapes etc etc. The Best Example is your own website. About this topic there are worldwide of scholars researched and came up with the answers still you are not having open heart to accept the truth in the sense i am not going to waste my time with the person who is prejudiced.

        2) Your own words indicate that as you are trying to give a new dimension to Islam and its worship formats..For your all questions there are lot of answers available throughout the web..Only thing is for holding your prejudiced religion you are not going to accept it..Any way no compulsion brother.Do your own soul searching. You are talking about your own subjects: Can you please My posts also as the titles If you are having open mindedness? 1) Why Hindu God,s Rape their own creation? – Answer with Vedic vision to All Hindus 2) Why going to Temple and Idol worship is Prohibited – Answer with Vedic vision to All Hindus 3) Why By the name of Hinduism saints cheat womens – Answer with Vedic vision to All Hindus. If Islam is a Major threat in the sense..always go from eliminating from smaller threats. Through your Website All so called HIndu,s to turn towards Veda’s with clearly mentioning when and where it has to be stopped. Not only that Stop all the nonsense by the name of god followed by politicians in this country with clearly mentioning who is doing and what is your vedic solution???Are you having open mindedness to discuss about The gang who is eating dead bodies at the riverbank of Ganges with the name of religion? Are you having the Openmindedness to discuss about prayer forms which is not mentioned in the vedas?..OK Still these are all you feel smaller threats in the sense You yourself misleading your own people..Hope You got My point.
        Atlast By Your Own Words I come to the point that “I believe that Allah is the God and Mohammad is His Messenger”..The Opponent doesnt need to believe that one. For that sake The Opponent has to be considered If he is having a good motive towards learning anything.
        I feel like telling that it is not Hinduism but Vedic ideoloy which came first and based on vedic ideology, Hinduism as ‘ism’ is known. Word Hindu is derived from word Sindu- a river in Punjab and people staying around that river studied, modified and adopted Vedic philosophy.

        Of course this is first attempt to adopt Vedic philosophy and we can here say it is first ‘adoptation’ of Vedic idelogy.

        To me Vedic realisatioins are ‘Self realisation’ by this I understand, Individual seekers attempted to know about ‘so far unknown supreme being to them. These seekers may or not be ‘scholars’ as we understand today. but yes, they were genuine ‘researchers’ of Almighty’.

        So whatever they realised individually, they must have narreted later on, to their first listeners. I presume it was narrated in some sort of a ‘Speech’, which I presume as ”speaking’ or Vad in sanskrit.

        Actually the word Veda, means ‘to speak’ in Sanskrit. So one can also asume that Vedic ideologies were trasnmited by mouth to mounth and memory. Now when it is mouth to mouth transmission then the originality later on, may not be maintained. It is not Word of God.

        If we go backward logically, then we can presume that Vedic ideology was not in form of any books because there is no clear cut information about communication medium, so i presume either it was Prakrit language which was without grammer or may be any other type of communication.

        Even interaction between countries to countries must not be easy. But we can assume that ‘knower’ of Vedas were residing near Himalaya region and from their they interected with people living around Sindhu river which was close to region and subsequent adopted ideology was Hinduism.

        Now above details can not be checked for its originality but it is purely logical assumption.

        Veda means knowledge. But Yogis said that “Vedaa vedo na uchyate….”, that means: We cannot call veda by that name “Veda” because it does not contain any knowledge.

        There was Dravidian religion before Vedas in India.Tantra came from this religion.

        Nowadays no one follows Vedic religion. Even Brahmanas did not do vedic nityakarmas like Agnihotra.

        Yoga was in India before vedas. That’s why vedas contain comments about yoga. Yoga came from Dravida culture. After that Vedaculture or Arya culture comes.
        Nowadays scientists say they that Gulf of Khamphat civilisation is ancient than Dravida civilisation. So Veda came after these religions
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_archaeology_in_the_Gulf_of_Cambay

        In Quran Allah clearly states that Islam is not the religion started and spread by Prophet MOhammd(PBUH) It was there before from the First Mankind Prophet Adam (ASW) and the Book of Quran is for all mankind irrespective of the religions. But Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last messenger in this world to propogate Islam. So My Brother First of all You doesnt understand Who is God in the sense How you will believe God,s word Quran??? ….

        So here the point is that If the Blame Game starts in the sense It may lead to any directions…Allah Clearly states in the Quran “Lakum Deenukum Valiya Deen”..Your Way is for You and My Way is For Me…..Hope I will conclude My thoughts for the time being…Hope Peace.

      • ****By the Way not full of my answer is copy paste from the site..Read fully once again.**** My point is Whatever you are claiming is also you copy pasted from others or through media’s thoughts isn,t it???..Truth always Hurts. It may be Copy Paste It reflects the Truth. By your post I understood that Truth,s other name is “Unrelated Stuff”???…OK No problem.. I am not here to feel proud or get dejected after these arguments. Only my concern is the Real Message always should pass to the common people..(Again after reading this also you can divert with your own visions..with false claimings BUT I dont have enough time..Have a good day Brother)!!!!

      • @AM your comment clearly shows that you know nothing about Islam or Muslims because your telling as if there is no caste in Muslims and Muslims have not committed any rape. This is height Muslim hypocrisy.

        “BR AMBEDKAR HAS HIMSELF TOLD THAT MUSLIM CASTE SYSTEM IS MUCH WORSE THAN HINDU CASTE SYSTEM”

        The BIGGEST LIE MUSLIM TELL is there is no caste system in their religion and PERVERT PSEUDO HISTORIAN ROMILA THAPAR’S also lied that Islamic Invasion also helped in mellowing down the effects of caste system Infact it become strong after Islamic Invasion. Ashraf muslims consider themselves superior to lower caste Ajlaf Muslims and Arzal Muslims are considered untouchables. Pakistan is more casteist than India that is proven by infamous Mukhtaran Mai gang rape case by upper caste muslims and many other cases like this. Salman Taseer killing has also casteist touches because Mullahs cannot digest a man from business community challenge the power of clergy . In Pakistan untoucability is practiced even in urban areas the shias, ahmediyas, Hindus are considered untouchables and Sunni Muslims do not share their food with them.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims

        @AM Islam is not spread by sword oh really put SKULL CATHEDRAL OF OTRANTO in google see this cathedral where Muslims beheaded thousands of christians because they refused to convert to Islam see the below link with cool videos

        http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98893

        @AM “The gang who is eating dead bodies at the riverbank of Ganges with the name of religion” LOL this is height of your ignorance then what about the UGANDA AND NIGERIAN MUSLIMS who have penchant for eating private parts of their enemies the most famous of them IDI AMIN.

      • Brother Sameer Welcome..
        Quite a moment I was also shocked about your claim..Alhamdulillah..Forget about Dr.B.R.Ambedkar or Romila Thapar or Pakistan claims. From your quoted Hyper link
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims
        It states as follows: Sources indicate that the castes among Muslims developed as the result of close contact with Hindu culture and Hindu converts to Islam.[1][2][3][4] Religious scholar Yoginder Sikand elaborates that the caste system among Muslims was not due to the “influence of Hinduism among a previously ‘pure’, ‘uncontaminated’ Muslim community,” but rather to “the continued impact of Hindu beliefs and customs on the converts who still remained within a largely Hindu cultural universe and retained many of its associated beliefs and practices”.[4]..So Here also I noted the Root cause…Hinduism..
        If My forefathers have reverted from Hinduism to Islam in the sense thats not My mistake..Here You have to condemn about the Caste Systems in Hinduism that made our forefathers also to follow Caste System..Not on us ..Because “Zamaana Badal Gayaa Hai”..Ambedkar Might have noted about this system during his life time ..I agree …But now a days me kind of Muslim guys are ready to hug My Dalit brother without any hesitation??..Is there any Upper caste Hindu,s ready to do this?..May be here the argument leads to the paper tigers…For your Information Pakistanis also once upon a time Indians who reverted from Hinduism to Islam now struggling with the epidemic Casteism they learned through their forefathers previous practice of Hinduism..Hope you got the answer!!

      • Brother Sameer..
        Related to Islam spread through Sword or not? …Our Brother Indian Agnostic,s reply applies to you also “but your reply shockingly consisted of the answers posted every tom , dick and harry”. For an argument sake If I want to follow the Arya Samaaja I have to follow Veda,s or something some one blabbers thorugh their perceptions about Arya Samaaja?…Sure I have to follow Veda,s right!!..The same way Whether Islam is spread through sword or not in the sense you have to study Islam and its teachings by Quran..Not By the Media…..Here My question is always everybody are authoritatively pronouncing that Islam is spread through Sword..Can somebody explain me In “short and sweet way” How Hinduism spread from Ancient age to today????.By the way I am not going to waste my time with answering those Tom Dick and Harrys claims filling the pages here at this site!!!…Anyway for an argument sake Even the Islam is spread through war in the sense Here are the rules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudence
        Hope you got the Answer!!

      • Brother Sameer,
        About Uganda and Nigerian who is denying your claims??….They never told in the media that “Allah and Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) ordered to do so..So we have done it”..You and other media are claiming that They are Muslims they have done the wrong!!!..I fully agree. Islam never allows that these kind of Stupidity..Even I feel pity for that as a Humanitarian.
        You Read My full question with Brother Indian Agnostic I am asking him that In this whole website Except Hinduism or Arya Samaaja other religions Christians and Muslim articles are containing with Personal attack, Religious belief attack with clear examples……If this site is created for exposing every body who are not following right path in the sense..With naming of the HIndu groups, If possible with photo,s, Naming of the person,s who are making the Veda,s meaningless with their own version of prayer forms, motives and persons If you write an article then I can say that yaa ..YOU are the man who are here to Reform!!..Hope you got the Answer!!!

      • AM Brother Caste System is in Saudia Arabia also as Mullahs have the ultimate power after that Ruling Class Amir and Sheikhs of Gulf Countries after that Business coummunities and lower caste non wahabi muslims and non muslims. No common muslim have right to challenge these Mullahs they have right to everybody’s life and property. Even if you to enter inside Kaaba you have to be prince or sheikh of some country. Now don’t tell Saudis have also come from Hindus, and by the way pakistan is not now in India and why are they following a caste system much worse than India. For your kind information Lord Krishna is from lower caste community of shepherds known as Yadav community, whom Hindus worship. Caste system became much stronger after Islamic Invasion.

        AM Brother I have many Dalit, and Muslim friends and I not have ask about their religion or caste like Muslims who are told to have friendship with their community only. You said you ready to hug your Dalit brother it is because of Indian ethics on contrary if you were born in Pakistan you would even refuse to share your lunch with your Muslims brothers like Shias, Ahmadiyas etc etc. AM Brother I have been to Gulf and have seen how Arabs treat Non-Arab Muslims like Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims they treat them as third grade citizens, as if by converting to them they have done a great service to them and Non-Arab Muslims are their Slaves.

        Muslims like IDI AMIN have read Quran by heart and know about Islam very nicely that is why they know that even after committing gross crimes like Cannibalism and Rape they can escape it and reach Red light Heaven of Allah only he must be Muslim, Zakir Naik also said this thing.

        @AM whenever you Muslims cannot answer you start ranting that you are quoting from anti-Islamic Sites or Tom, Dick, Harry site. The link which I have given has been quoted from Koran, and has links to various big newspaper like BBC, guardian etc etc Videos and Images clearly BARBARISM OF MUSLIMS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. It has verses from KORAN, which says that NON-MUSLIMS SHOULD BE BEHEADED and shows how Muslim clerics tell their followers Madrasas and Masjids that ALLAH LOVE THE SACRIFICE OF HUMAN CALVES.

        http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98893

      • @AM Brother I can prove that ISHAWAR is greater than allah using comparative religion and christians people own exposure regarding Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh as your own Mohammad has said that Allah, Jehovah and Yahweh are same.

        According to comparative religion and according to many Christian’s own account ALLAH IS A SMALL VEDIC GOD IN VEDAS. ALLAH/YAHWEH/JEHOVAH/JOVE/ZEUS is none other than INDRA.

        Prophet Mohammad told his Allah is same as YAHWEH/JEHOVAH which in turn are Roman God Jove, which Jewish pronounce as Yahweh and Christians as Jehovah, So Allah/Jehovah/Yahweh is none other Roman God Jove/Jupiter, who in Greek is called as Zeus and in India is called as Indra. Allah is called merciful and compassionate like Roman God Jove. Yahweh/Jehovah threatened people with flood and thunder like Jove/Indra. Flood Myth of Abrahmic religion are taken from Roman God Jove where people are wiped for their sins and new breed of new generations of people were created See the below link for further confirmation

        Abrahmic Gods are worshiping different plantary gods like Moon, Venus and Sun because anybody who knows comparative religion knows that only those religion which worship planets have Sabbath like Friday, Saturday and SUN-DAY on the contrary SUPREME GOD ISHWARA has no Sabbath all 7 days are his sabbath.

        ANOTHER PROOF even Muslims cannot deny is Rainbow is called qawsalla in arabic, which means “BOW OF ALLAH” and in hindi it is called INDRADHANUSH (BOW OF INDRA)

        So ALLAH IS NON OTHER THAN INDRA A SMALL VEDIC GOD. ISHWARA IS MUCH BIGGER THAN INDRA

        http://jesus-messiah.com/html/jove.html
        http://seatofgod.com/jupiterbiblicalastrologicalaspects/id21.html

      • Namaste @AM

        it’s no crime to quote from an authentic source , but your reply shockingly consisted of the answers posted every tom , dick and harry to a question posed on answers.com and also you didnot mention your source which is plagiarism

        http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100623221359AAcL9IZ

        so its not only a question of scholarly posts or originality but how much sincere you were in carrying the discussion forward 🙁

        i think an apology is in order

        Dhanyawad

      • @Indian Agnostic:

        Great catch! That should be the last we hear from AM unless he/she resurfaces under a different username.

      • Namaste Brother KalBhairav

        i guess you are right.

        it will take dharmic courage on part of brother @AM to admit that he treated a serious religious dialogue in such a shoddy manner..the chances are slim indeed

      • Thank you Brother Kal Bhairav…For attesting my efforts.
        Brother Indian Agnostic, By the Way Sorry for the plagarism….But here onwards I will quote with authentic reference OK…..
        According to Hindu tradition, the Vedas are apauruṣeya “not of human agency”,[3] are supposed to have been directly revealed, and thus are called śruti (“what is heard”).[4][5] The four Saṃhitās are metrical (with the exception of prose commentary interspersed in the Black Yajurveda). The term saṃhitā literally means “composition, compilation”. The individual verses contained in these compilations are known as mantras. Some selected Vedic mantras are still recited at prayers, religious functions and other auspicious occasions in contemporary Hinduism.
        Reference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
        Now My question is that Here no where the article claims that The veda,s are Word of God. So why I have to follow Veda,s?…..
        But Quran clearly states that It is the Final Testament for the mankind “A scripture that we revealed to you, in order to lead the people out of darkness into the light – in accordance with the will of their Lord – to the path of the Almighty, the Praiseworthy.” – 14:1″…So My view is clear what about your path My Brother??

      • Namaste Brother AM
        Congratulations for showing the traits of truth seeker for the first time. We should always apologize for our mistakes. Many thanks for the same.

        Its interesting that you refer Quran to show what it says but refer Wikipedia to show what Vedas say! Why such discrimination Brother? If I create a Wiki page and write that the book “X” is word of God and show the same in “X”, will you accept it to be from God?

        Your view is pretty clear though most illogical. You want to believe in “X” because it is written in “X”. People who believe in such logic are made fool in the world. We must apply our brain before accepting or rejecting anything because we are not sure about the book, but we are pretty sure about our intellect that it is given by my God to help me recognize truth. So never let your brain get surrendered to any book or human because brain is from God for sure but the book or human need not be.

        So our path is truth, and truth is what I can realize through my efforts (intellectual, physical, spiritual) and of course something which I can question anytime without fearing any hellfire.

      • Namaste Brother @AM

        //Brother Indian Agnostic, By the Way Sorry for the plagarism….But here onwards I will quote with authentic reference OK//

        Very much OK brother. thank you!

        PS: i hope you dont believe wikipedia to be authentic source 🙂

      • @ AM brother Mohammad himself said Abrahmic Religious books are corrupted like Torah, Bible and KORAN WITH SATANIC VERSES. So why follow corrupted books, follow the ORIGINAL BOOK VEDAS.

      • Brother Indian Agnostic.
        Rigveda 10.161.3
        – Your analysis of right and wrong should be unbiased and not specific to particular set of people…So My “Vedic” Brother when Yesterday Sameer was quoting from Wikipedia….where were your Veda following philosophies???…Now All of a sudden If you got a reply through the same website in the sense you started saying Wikipedia is useless. Come on Be Proper at your life before preaching Brother!!!

      • @Vajra
        Are you thinking that as soon as I took birth believing in Quran or My path is Best..No Brother I made myself to attest whatever I am following took me around 18 years. So Always you should not have faith …Islam clearly states that you should have “faith with proof”.
        Your own words describe like this: “We must apply our brain before accepting or rejecting anything because we are not sure about the book, but we are pretty sure about our intellect that it is given by my God to help me recognize truth. So never let your brain get surrendered to any book or human because brain is from God for sure but the book or human need not be.”
        In your own logic after several centuries the generation may tell the same dialogue for “Jungle book” or “Harry Potter” as their religion (If the authority is vanished in the sense like veda’s)..Like We are not sure about the book but our intellect that is given by my god to help me recognize truth it is the epic I have to follow..Funny isnt it?
        Your own veda says like this:
        2. Yajurved 19.77
        – All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
        No1 : Analysis – Who are we? Why we are here? What is the purpose of life? Who is God?
        Why We have to believe him as God? How We can attain the love of God or otherwise make a communication with God?
        No2 Logic – If I have to believe this how much it is practical and If I have to believe this Why the reasons it is mentioned?
        No3 Facts and evidence – What are all the facts and evidence are there to follow? How much it is practically applicable and scientific?
        So By your own veda’s It is very clear that “This should be a continuous process and one should keep ***detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true*** based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence. ” and Allah clearly states that in Quran:
        Just for an example “Analysis of Creation”…Just to believe him (Allah) as God…
        “It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that (seed) which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?” (The Qur’an, 56:57-59)
        1. Man is not created from the entire semen, but only a very small portion of it (sperm).
        2. It is the male that determines the sex of the baby.
        3. The human embryo adheres to the mother’s uterus like a leech.
        4. The embryo develops in three dark regions in the uterus.
        Verse 75:36-37 clearly mentions that man is made not from the entire semen. Verse 76:2, 32:7,8 clearly explains about the property of Semen..that is semen not only contains sperms but also other fluids. “He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.” (The Qur’an, 53:45-46). This describes the sex of the Baby. Verse 96:1-3 clearly explains about the the clot clinging to the uterus. Verse 23:14 clearly explains about the The wrapping of muscles over the bones. “… He creates you stage by stage in your mothers’ wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?” (The Qur’an, 39:6)…This explains the three stages of Baby in the Womb…(Pry Embrionic stage, Embrionic stage and Fetal stage)…..
        So according to your own veda’s “detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence. ” is what is suitable to the present situation!!!!
        Even better late than never, Because during our time of death ” We will say like “Oh god give me a chance, I will go back and correct everything and comeback”..But It is too late to realize the truth. Go through following verses..Hope Peace!!!
        “23:99. Until, when death comes to one of them (those who join partners with Allah), he says: “My Lord! Send me back,

        23:100. “So that I may do good in that which I have left behind!” No! It is but a word that he speaks, and behind them is Barzakh (a barrier) until the Day when they will be resurrected.”

      • Namaste Brother AM
        Though it is hard to believe in your words- “I made myself to attest whatever I am following took me around 18 years” after observing your dependency on copy pasted stuffs and not on your own logic but I hope you are not lying about your research for 18 years.

        —————–In your own logic after several centuries the generation may tell the same dialogue for “Jungle book” or “Harry Potter” as their religion (If the authority is vanished in the sense like veda’s)..Like We are not sure about the book but our intellect that is given by my god to help me recognize truth it is the epic I have to follow..Funny isnt it?————————

        You got it perfectly Brother AM. Stories of breaking of moon, flying donkey, baby without father, God of 2 hands, stones talking to humans and much more (which are even funnier than Jungle book) are being claimed to be the word of God by many (including you). But that does not make me believe in it. I will check it logically and then accept or reject it. And I have rejected Quran on logical and moral bases. Now its your turn to judge Vedas intellectually. No, you dont need to follow any epic, neither I follow those. So no fun!

        Please read seven articles on Vedas here (http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/) and get your answers for- who we are? who is God? What is the evidence of God, soul etc and much more. And then compare the philosophy of Vedas with that of Islam.

        Right now you are purely dependent on copied item from here and there for even Quran, forget about Vedas. So once you are done with these articles on Vedas, let me know, then we can have discussion on Vedic philosophy.

        Dhanyawad

      • @Vajra
        Brother see I am not Intellectual or scholar like you people to say as soon as the answer is exposed “Wikipedia” is not authentic source. Here I understood that one piece of food is enough to judge about the whole rotten food. This applies to the WHOLE WEBSITE!!Anyway who cares isnt it?..I am a normal Human being to defend my faith with Truth I have to refer from my epic which I believe..Even though Copy paste I never lied With confidence I can say that I referred from Quran and Science…In other words My Investment of 18 years not only I learned Quran but also other religions beliefs and persons like you. To be frank for you kind of people “You people are born supremo’s like as soon as you are having Powerful Vedic Vision to judge about other religion and about other beliefs”..I am Aam Insaan..Kyaa kar saktaa Hoon?..I always to refer for my answering which is TRUTH and authentic. Even I think you people might have the “Whole wisdom of knowledge” about all the epics in this world right????..(Atleast to destort and blaming them as per your perception)..Dont worry I am having lot of Respect towards Veda’s ..I never do that mistake…
        Even with My Logical and analytical skills If I explain ” Stories of breaking of moon, flying donkey, baby without father, God of 2 hands, stones talking to humans and much more ” about all your claims you are going to believe it…Within your life time “Through your wisdom” you already rejected..then what is the use in filling pages here..!!!!
        I also gone through your lessons to be frank starting Itself your story starts with superb impression…
        “”Note: By ‘God’ we imply Ishwar or the Supreme Entity and **NOT ‘Devata’**. ‘Devata’ is a different term but often wrongly considered to mean ‘Supreme Entity’.

        **While Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’**, any entity – living or non-living – that helps us or is useful for us is termed ‘Devata’. But that does not mean every entity is Ishwar and should be worshipped. To avoid confusion, we shall use the term ‘Ishwar’ in this article.” First come up clearly which is Devata?? Which is Supreme Entity?..First Impression is the Best Impression right…Thats what My motive here Identify Who is God?? then later preach your “Vedic Philosophies”. If the Common people understand,s about this Insha Allah I am quite happy. By the way I am also learner of the Veda’s not to defame it..to learn what it might have taught to Human community which nowadays extinct in civilizations….Later the Humanity endorsed thorugh Allah as final revealation of the world…Comparison of both two with a positive approach..After all we are having limited life brother..No second chance to explore ourself!!!Good Discussion Thank you..Your way is for you..My Way is for me!!!!

      • 1) By the way All Brothers..Out of the above All Healthy Discussions either @Indian Agnostic, @Sameer, @Vajra no body had a courage to refer their own epics..This itself exposes what level of faith you are having about your own epics. Initial Lesson teaches that God is Supreme Entity But Every Entity is Ishwar and doesnot worshipped!!. If we apply this theory other than veda,s all other epics are baseless. But at the same time some places the same site claims that wherever contradictory is there follow Veda’s. Whether this website is for endorsing Veda as devine? or Other books are useless still we can follow it?. Come with Clear Answer my brothers. This is where I can with confidence say that “QURAN IS THE FINAL REVELATION” (Even If you reject it doesn’t matter). My point is even for an argument sake they are not following their own epics but they are always ready to find the faults in others..GREAT WORK right……..
        2. As soon as Islam in the sense every body started with Media hypocrisies Nobody dared to answer “HOW HINDUISM SPREAD”??
        3. As soon as the Blind beliefs of India exposed in the sense every body jumps into “Pakistan, Nigeria, Uganda, Saudi Arabia”..World has changed brother..By your own logic There are Muslims and Activities going on in USA,Europe,China,Indonesia and Australia also. At least Muslim brotherhood not identified by Country. It is a way of life!!..By the Way No body answered this question also..******”In this whole website Except Hinduism or Arya Samaaja other religions Christians and Muslim articles are containing with Personal attack, Religious belief attack with clear examples……If this site is created for exposing every body who are not following right path in the sense..With naming of the HIndu groups, If possible with photo,s, Naming of the person,s who are making the Veda,s meaningless with their own version of prayer forms, motives and persons If you write an article then I can say that yaa ..YOU are the man who are here to Reform!!”*****But they easily popped out with re questioning and claiming about Islam’s violence..Why you people doesn’t have any reliable epic source to justify these blind beliefs which are haunting India and Indian Masses???…..
        Here I conclude that Even If this thread continues I can happily resign this forum such that “MY THOUGHTS ARE TRULY FROM MY FAITH TOWARDS ALLAH, ANSWERS FROM AUTHENTIC SOURCES NOT TO DEFAME OTHERS BY ANY MEANS”..Thank you…Thanks for the Nice Discussion.

      • Brother AM Namaste
        Will not go into details of philosophy and I have told you the reason of it previously.

        “”Note: By ‘God’ we imply Ishwar or the Supreme Entity and **NOT ‘Devata’**. ‘Devata’ is a different term but often wrongly considered to mean ‘Supreme Entity’.

        **While Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’**

        Devata means someone which helps us or is useful for us.

        Eeshvar is a Devata but every Devata is not Eeshvar. So translation of Devata is not Eeshvar. There is a huge difference between translation and examples.

        This way, mother, father, teachers are all Devatas BUT THEY ARE NOT EESHVAR. Above definition of Devata also holds good on Eeshvar, so He is yet another Devata.

        Your mother, father are humans and your neighbors are humans too. But do your neighbors become your mother and father then? No. Even though they are humans, they are different from your parents, got it. Will you translate humans as parents? Though parents are the examples of humans but humans does not mean parents every time. So, Eeshvar is also a Devata along with mother, father (because they share common property to help us) but that does not make everyone (mother, father etc) identical (Eeshvar).

        Hope your confusion about Devata and Eeshvar no longer exists. Now please start reading the articles I gave so that you can discuss Vedas.

        BTW have you ever asked any Moulvi that if Allah is Rahim and Muhammad is also Rahim then why are not Muhammad and Allah same?

      • Brother AM

        —–In this whole website Except Hinduism or Arya Samaaja other religions Christians and Muslim articles are containing with Personal attack, Religious belief attack with clear examples—-

        You need to read Quran and Hadith at least once dear Brother. Quran calls me worst of creatures because I dont believe in Muhammad and Quran. I have been threatened in hundreds of verses of Quran that I will be thrown in hellfire hereafter. So what I should do? Love your book? Love your prophet? No. I will burst these violent and barbaric ideologies with best of my might so that innocent people may not get trapped in those and that people already trapped in those may be liberated asap.

        best regards

      • Namaste brother @AM ( your comments within //..//)

        //1) By the way All Brothers..Out of the above All Healthy Discussions either @Indian Agnostic, @Sameer, @Vajra no body had a courage to refer their own epics..//

        Are you blaming me for not responding to your copy-pasted unauthentic stuff? its very unfair bro.

        my friend, wikipedia is good starting point no doubt..but its not a final resource ion terms of authenticity.

        but if you believe it as a final resource, then you have to admit that Islam is nothing but arab imperialism and violent barbarianism that was unleashed on the civilized world

        sample these articles : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_hindus

        So even by wikipedia references, you must leave this ideology ASAP

        //This itself exposes what level of faith you are having about your own epics. //

        when the objective is to find out the Truth, blind faith on your epic or my epic is USELESS !

        epics or teachings are NOT to be blindly believed in BUT to be put through the test of logic, reason and facts.

        //Initial Lesson teaches that God is Supreme Entity But Every Entity is Ishwar and doesnot worshipped!!. If we apply this theory other than veda,s all other epics are baseless.//

        When the objective is to realize the Truth, how does it matter if you cling to one epic or NO epic at all?

        why are you so bothered ? is the number of books more important than the TRUTH?

        My friend, what is being said is that if any book /teaching defies logic , reason or facts ..it must be discarded without a second thought

        // But at the same time some places the same site claims that wherever contradictory is there follow Veda’s. Whether this website is for endorsing Veda as devine? //

        You have not read enough articles on the site.The site says clearly that Vedas have been found to stand the test of logic , reason & human values and hence the possibility of belief on them.

        But at the same time the site categorically states that if any thing is found against humanity /logic/reason even in Vedas then one must discard it in favor of Truth.

        //or Other books are useless still we can follow it?. Come with Clear Answer my brothers.//

        The answers are pretty clear.Its you who needs to read the articles before making any claims.

        the short and sweet message is plain and simple – if any teaching/book tells you to go against logic/reason/human values/morality etc. – DISCARD IT !

        // This is where I can with confidence say that “QURAN IS THE FINAL REVELATION” (Even If you reject it doesn’t matter). My point is even for an argument sake they are not following their own epics but they are always ready to find the faults in others..GREAT WORK right……..//

        My friend, that is your biggest problem. You must understand that to find out if X is true or false ..you can NEVER start with an assumption that X is true ..you have to put X through the tests and then say confidently that X is indeed true.

        but it appears you are more interested in preserving your blind belief and all your arguments are just for ‘arguments sake’. Ignorance is bliss !?

        //2. As soon as Islam in the sense every body started with Media hypocrisies Nobody dared to answer “HOW HINDUISM SPREAD”??//

        Wouldn’t it be foolish to argue how hinduism spread in it’s own land ? Hinduism is intrinsic to this land ,it was not forced upon other lands like Islam

        Islam destroyed whole civilizations in iraq, iran , yemen , syria ..and thats the reason why its barbarianism is criticized

        //3. As soon as the Blind beliefs of India exposed in the sense every body jumps into “Pakistan, Nigeria, Uganda, Saudi Arabia”..World has changed brother..By your own logic There are Muslims and Activities going on in USA,Europe,China,Indonesia and Australia also. At least Muslim brotherhood not identified by Country. It is a way of life!!..//

        This is another problem with Islam ..it professes that national boundaries and causes must be secondary to Islam.

        This makes every muslim a potential threat to every democratic nation. If a cartoon is made in denmark ..foolish Islamist zombies run riot in India !!!!

        Islam is a cult that destroys the fabric of national integration and cohesion.It must be opposed by anybody who respects their Nation.

        what pains me is that ..your forefathers were Indians, who were converted by force and deceit by invading barbarians.and today you are telling me that India is secondary to the very cult which took you away from your fellow brothers???!!!

        Sad indeed

        //By the Way No body answered this question also..******”In this whole website Except Hinduism or Arya Samaaja other religions Christians and Muslim articles are containing with Personal attack, Religious belief attack with clear examples……If this site is created for exposing every body who are not following right path in the sense..With naming of the HIndu groups, If possible with photo,s, Naming of the person,s who are making the Veda,s meaningless with their own version of prayer forms, motives and persons If you write an article then I can say that yaa ..YOU are the man who are here to Reform!!”*****But they easily popped out with re questioning and claiming about Islam’s violence..Why you people doesn’t have any reliable epic source to justify these blind beliefs which are haunting India and Indian Masses???…..//

        This site unbiasedly condemns every blind belief that hurts humanity and human progress and truth. But you must understand the reason why Islam and Christianity appear in so many debates.The answer is simple

        Islam and Christianity are posing real threats in our country. Be it Kashmir or Kerala or Nagaland,Mizoram,Assam etc

        wherever any of these religions become dominant two things surely follow – other religions are persecuted and these places want to get separated from the native country.

        So the clear and present danger is Islam and Christianity with all their deceitful and intolerant teachings that become the subject of most debates.Its everybody’s duty to find out as to why does any place lose its peace and tranquility as soon as islam or christianity starts raising their head.The answer to this question must be explored and is being explored

        //Here I conclude that Even If this thread continues I can happily resign this forum such that “MY THOUGHTS ARE TRULY FROM MY FAITH TOWARDS ALLAH, ANSWERS FROM AUTHENTIC SOURCES NOT TO DEFAME OTHERS BY ANY MEANS”..Thank you…Thanks for the Nice Discussion.//

        You started with a wrong presumption and ended with a wrong one..but i hope that one day you will indeed realize that books are NOT the truth..Truth exists inspite or despite of books

        seeking Truth is an endeavor, it’s not as easy as following a writing written on bones some 1400 years ago guided by an illiterate man !!

        Thank you for being civil and putting across whatever you believe in.

        Peace

      • Brother AM, remember Allaah’s words “Thummum bukmun umyun fahum laa yarjiuum” meaning, deaf, dump and blind they would never return.

        I have followed the discussion and I think you have tried; divert your efforts to other sites where you can benefit yourself and others.
        Ma’assalaam.

      • @Mahmat:

        meaning, deaf, dump and blind they would never return.

        (Hmm…I thought Allah could perform miracles to cure the deaf, dumb and the blind who are after all his own creations endowed by Allah with free will…Oh wait…that was the other other Son of God, Jesus. Never mind.)

        Or…Islam could just be wrong.

      • Namaste Brother Kal Bhairav
        Actually deafness, dumbness, and blindness of deaf, dumb and blinds are themselves miracles of Allah! Quran [2:7] confirms it – “Allah has sealed and veiled the hearts and eyes of Kafirs so that they cant understand the truth.” So miracle is that the Ghazis invading other’s land, raping women and making children slaves are considered hearing, speaking and sighted but those invaded, raped, and enslaved are deaf, dumb, and blind (at least they become so when Ghazis pull out their tongues and sew their eyes closed in the holy process of making this world Darul Islam)

        And this miracle (of sealing hearts) is necessary to fulfill Allah’s wish which is “to fill hell with Jinns and humans together” [Quran 32:13]

        And ISLAM CAN NEVER BE WRONG BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN IN QURAN AND QURAN CAN NEVER BE WRONG BECAUSE IT IS THE BOOK OF ISLAM AND ISLAM CAN NEVER BE WRONG BECAUSE… ..QURAN…….BECAUSE ….ISLAM …..UPTO INFINITY 🙂

      • Dear AM

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    • Namaste @believer

      just visited your site. you need to really work hard sir. Your rebuttals are driven more by belief than by logic or rationality.

      this is 21st century, people wont take any illogical or blind-belief based circular arguments seriously.

      keep searching for Truth by the way.all the best

    • Namaste @Straight Path Follower

      If in any way you are suggesting that Islam is the straight path, then most of the visitors here know for sure that it aint a straight path at all apart from the fact it’s various teachings go against morality, humanity and spirituality 🙁

      anyways, all the best for your endeavor and may Truth finally dawn upon you.

    • What is the use of Almighty ? Abrahamic god gives some benefits to who ever praises him and punishes the people who dont praise him? How will such a god give happiness? Is there a gaurantee the same god will some day not change rules and punish you for some other action of you (He may compete against you for some virgin)

      Better ignore such a god and enjoy 72 virgins and wine here on earth.

  25. Dear brothers and sisters,

    we all are sons of Adam and eve, and different scriptures are the messages from the GOD for human being in different era, VEDAS, bible, torah, and the last one is QURAN.

    The actual purpose of revelation of Quran is that becasue previous scriptures were corrupted by humans…

    Now please…

    Read Quran and turn to your creator….how can it be against humanity when itself it says that it is from the creator of humans…

    Regards

    Mohammad

    • @Mohamad
      ________we all are sons of Adam and eve_______

      Brother i thought you are an intelligent guy, but it seems from your comments you do not possess even a common sense. You feel proud to be son of incestuous. How, nonsense this to think that you are doing sex with your sister.Brother in the inception of universe in thousand of numbers male & female bring down on earth. So, concept of incest does not arise. Veda is against incest. If you believe in Aadam & eve stories then you should also sex with your sisters, mothers. But we Vedic follower consider incest is a greatest sin. In veda incest nowhere mention. And as I have read in Mantra of “Rigveda 10/85/21 there is a clear instruction one should not marry in his own clan”. But I do not force you if you want to sex with your sister you can proceed, because Kuran permit incest. But Veda God is perfect he never forces anybody for incest so, he send thousand of male female in the inception of universe. This theory logically better then Kuran. Veda Instruction based on logic & science. But you are a blind believer do not see the things on logic basis. You can not believe Allah can create thousand number of male & female in the inception of universe. You think Allah is powerless and he can not create thousand of humans in the inception.

    • Namaste Brother Mohammad

      we all are sons of Adam and eve, and different scriptures are the messages from the GOD for human being in different era, VEDAS, bible, torah, and the last one is QURAN.

      Please don’t spread misinformation that we are all products of incest.The Adam and Eve theory is myth.

      The actual purpose of revelation of Quran is that becasue previous scriptures were corrupted by humans…

      This is an insult to Almighty God! a God who cannot protect his revelation cannot protect you! don;t you understand this simple aspect?

      Now please…Read Quran and turn to your creator….how can it be against humanity when itself it says that it is from the creator of humans…

      Don’t insult the brains that the true Creator(if there’s one) has given you. Can;’t you see the circularity of your statement. if i give you a piece of paper which says that it’s gods word and that it says that Mohammad is Satan, would you start believing in that piece of paper?

      please be rational Mr. Mohammad.blind belief was ok in the 7th century arabic desert.It’s not okay in our times.

      best regards

  26. Nice psychedelic site with vivid political inspirations. Continue the hallucination until it is interrupted by death.

  27. Important for your kind attention:
    Agniveerji,
    I read your several posts including what Aniveer is? You are doing great work, however I am disappointed by the later post. Agniveer wishes to propagate the principles of Swami Dayanand Saraswati with new name, it is disgusting. Tomarrow Agniveer will be contaminated, then a new name and so on……..,
    Agniveerji, I request you to clean the contaminated people of Arya Samaj by condemning from the same site, instead initiating the existing mission with new name. It is like changing your last name to bring your existence. The name “Arya Samaj” coined by Swami ji must be kept in original to pay homage to him for his contributiion to humanity. The contaminated people from the Arya Samaj must not be involved in its activities. I will be happy to extend my all support to rectify the Arya Samaj rather putting my self with Agniveer.

    • Namaste,

      Name is just a temporary unique id for ease of identification. Our aim is solely to promote the spirit of ‘Accept truth, reject rest’ for universal brotherhood, rational humanism and purposeful living in entire world. So Agniveer is neither a cult nor has any ambition to further its name. Its just a unique id derived from Vedic dictionary so that we are reminded of our mission from its meaning. It same as naming our children with nice words uniquely for convenience.

      We would just request your support for whatever actions of ours that is nobly intended as per your conscience. And if you put your efforts to make Arya Samaj better for humanity, we would be proud to hail you as an ‘Agniveer’ going by its root meaning. Same goes for Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists and everyone else. They all are ‘Agniveer’ for us if they sincerely work for betterment of their societies and organizations to align them with humanity in general inspired by a wisdom-based approach.

      Dhanyavad
      Admin

  29. Hi ,
    .
    I’ve been directed to this site from a discussion back at alisina.org (comments-section user-id Duratma_Gandhi). Since you promote a particular “thought-process / set of concepts” and the “Vedic religion”, I have the following “questions for beginners”,
    .
    1. Is there a set of steps or a specific map to read through the materials on the site – so beginners can start from the rudimentary aspects of your thought/ method.
    2. If #1 is present, could you please publish it – may be right here a link to stating “Start your learning-process – Click Here”? If it’s a free-flow site where no article takes a precedence over another, could you make an explicit statement of the same?
    .
    Thanks!
    MN

    • Namaste MN:

      Welcome to Agniveer/Satyagni.

      Before I can answer your question it would help if I can understand them better. Could you provide details of what you intend to learn from here?

      Many of us who post here (and I for sure) have a love for Hindu philosophy/theology. We dont always agree with each other on the finer points of Hindu philosophy/theology.

      One of the driving forces for this website is Satyarth Prakash by Dayanand Saraswathy. You can download it at http://www.scribd.com/collections/2768017/Agniveer-assorted

      Many of the articles compare the Hindu world view vs the Islamic world view and attempt to establish how Hindu philosophy answers questions much better.

    • wow, people there at alisina.org are proudly mentioning Agniveer.com to defend hinduism. Especially on the misconceptions about sati and caste system, this site has filled the courage and confidence in those Hindus who want to live with self-respect. They are using the arguments of this site to counter the arguments of jehadis and evangelists with mentioning this site address.

      This project is becoming even bigger than anybody could have imagined. Kudos!

  31. Though I like most of your points, I think points 2 and 12 contradict. If you don’t believe any other book to be divine, then you are not showing open mindedness.
    Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma, whatever you call it is unique because of its evolution through the ages. We had regrettable practices like Sati, Child Marriage and Caste. We have reformed ourselves, stopped the first two and are growing out of division based on caste. So we are progressive and this is the sign of life.
    But Hinduism is also known for its tolerance. Shri Krishna says in the Gita that worship in all forms are directed to him. So definitely there can be ways other than what we follow. If we rob Hinduism of its ideas of tolerance and acceptance, we will deny its true essence.

  32. First when I learned about Agniveer I was a big fan. I still am a big fan but you guys are making one important mistake by stating that you are against Idol Worship. Much if not all of Hindus today pray to Lord Krishna or Rama etc… There is nothing wrong with this. To deny Lord Krishna or others you are going against the fundamental beliefs of the Hindus. It is good that you are trying to get the Muslims back but its wrong to deny Krishna or Rama as God. What good is it to do something based on lie? You read Bhagavad Gita chapter 11 it is clearly stated that God is with and without Form. So one can worship God either way. You can have much more support of all Hindus if you show some respect to the truth of Lord Krishna or Lord Rama etc…. Calling Krishna and Rama great men is totally against what we Hindus believe. Even Vedas does not deny form or formless. You are first creating a deivision amongst Hindus then trying to bring back the once you lost to Islam. I think you can still reach them by fighting caste system as the main problem then educating them on what Vedas teaches and what Gita teaches. Its better to have all Hindus united and have there support then to just run with Arya Samaj belief system. Let the person choose if they want to pray to a formless God and one with Form. This is what Gita and Vedas says. I love everything about your movement but this one main problem is what is holding you back from getting support of the many Hindus. I am only stating what I feel is the truth and in trying to help your mission succeed. I worry that Muslim population growth in India will eventually pass the Hindus and create more problems or lead to killing of more people and Hindu structures. I dont hate Muslims but I love all people and my religion. Tell Arya Musafir I am still waiting and willing to help. Jai Sia Ram

      • Truth seeker on the article you pointed out has this answer about can GOD reincarnate? No. Because Vedas clearly define Him as unborn, formless and unchangeable. On contrary Vedas state that He is able to perform ALL His duties at ALL times maintaining His unchangeable identity.

        My Answer: God is not changing anything about himself or being born when he takes a human form to deliver his message to mankind. What better way to communicate to the world then in Human form. To make the argument that sending prophet makes it seem that God is always hiding. Should God not prove his existence time to time. The answer is YES. It is human nature to know the truth and not trust things behind word of others like prophets so this is point one. Second, does god have to say reincarnation all over the Vedas then reveal the same knowledge in Gita. No. Just because reincarnation is not discussed in detail in Vedas does not mean its false. It is mentioned in Rig Veda. Reincarnation and Karma go together and it is the only scientific fact that explains life as we live it. You can watch this video as evidence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCDNUZex4Mo
        You will never convince me that Lord Rama and Krishna were ordinary yogis. They so many miracles and performed Leelas that only God would have the power to do. It is also stated clearly in Chapter 11 of Gita. So I cant see how you can make the interpretation that Krishna or Rama were ordinary Yogis. This is where you end up not getting support of most Hindus as you are not willing to accept anything beyond these mistakes. I think your work and mission is great and it can go a long way with the blessing of Lord Krishna but only if you are willing to accept him in the correct way. I can understand that it may look pleasing to a Muslim who you might be trying to bring back to Sanatan Dharam but to do by deceiving God is not good. I have no problem if you want to worship God as formless but with the same respect that it is Lord Krishna. If you do this then you will get the whole…

  34. Namaste Agniveer,
    First of all I must congratulate you for the great work you have been doing. And like many others I am also a regular visitor of your site and follow your articles. Please do keep up the good work. I would also be happy if you do write some article on the “Samkhya” school of thought of Hinduism. I am really interested about knowing more about it.

    Regards
    Anirban

  35. ……………..
    Where does agniveer stand on war (use of muscle power) that countries, organizations and individuals use to promote their interests and beliefs?
    ……………..
    Obviously such bullies/ forces can not be wished away in “May we have Shanti everywhere. Om Shantih Shantih Shantih!” It obviously sounds wonderful when you say there should NOT be caste or gender or color based discrimination. BUT what is your stand when some agniveer (victim) confronts discriminating bully who is inimical to philosophical rant??? These forces are REAL, are all pervading. Each one of us have to face these daily. Silence of agniveer on such an important issue is puzzling. WHERE DOES AGNIVEER (victim) STAND WHEN CONFRONTED WITH SUCH FORCES???
    ……………..
    Stand may (?) have been expressed in some other article. However, that stand (in case there is one) is so important that it ought to have found its place in this article. Thanks.
    ……………..
    – Ketan Bhatt

  36. ” Karmanye Vadhika Rastay..maa faleshu kada chanh ” …You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of actions….I must cogratulate Agniveer for being GREAT FOLLOWER of Srimad Bhagwad Gita as it is said in Bhagwad………Karm karo phal dene ki jimmedari mujh pe chhod do…..so is Agniveer doing………GREAT CAUSE — GREAT WORK — GREAT WORK.

  37. Namaste,
    Wonderful Job. Keep it up. Please set up branches in the US, so that the Indian youth in the US can also help.
    Hari Om.

  38. namo namah!

    sarvesam samyak asti kalu!
    lets keep spread the message of happiness to sorround us…
    may shanti everywhere!

    “love.peace.harmony”
    santika, from: FB: sanskrit for indonesia

  39. I was looking for something similar, but unfortunately this website is banned in UAE and perhaps all Islamic Countries. We need to surpass the proxy to read this. But surely a great work. I am not against any religion but I am proud of being a Hindu and firmly believe in my religion. Not to mention I am vegetarian for over 18 years now.

  41. Namaste,
    good article ….agniveerji u follow exact principles of vedas…hats off to you..ishwar sadev aapki sahayta kare…om shantih shantih

    • Vivek can you show me exactly where it says our vedas and upnishads say idol worship is wrong? Also can you show me in Vedas and upnishads that God has no form? Clearly God has form even in the Vedas. It is the view of followers of Dayanand Swami who say these things but to accept there views many other greats like Swami Vivekanand, Ved Vyas, Adi Shankracharya, Madhvacharya, Meerabai etc…. would all have to be wrong or be liars. So do your research before you accept such bogus theories.

    • Please understand that Idol Worship is nothing but worshiping through idol and not worshiping idol. Idol can be a statue, book, flag, fire,word ,picture etc. I hope Taithareya Upanishad will make clarity in this subject.

  47. I have donated my share. Keep up the good work. And people instead of fighting here like kids. Donate some money so Agniveer can continue its work of spreading peace and vedic knowledge across world. You fighting here on online blogs are trivial and helps no one.

  48. Dear All Frinds,
    Please yaro Dharm ke nam pe mat camints karo karna hai to
    desh ke bare me socho jo neta log bharat ko bechne ki taiyari
    kar rahe hai.ghotala pe ghotala ho raha hai. chahe o manmohan singh
    ho y hamid ansari

    jai hind

  49. Sri Rama is the embodiment of righteousness, he is an equable person with truthfulness as his valour, and as with Indra to all gods he is the king of entire world.

    Many people/scholars point out that though Sri Rama followed Dharma, he failed in doing so while killing Vali from behind. They forget that even Vali himself got satisfied with the replies of Sri Rama and that Sri Rama did nothing wrong.

    One can deceive people around him by posing to be a Dharmatma but nobody can fool the NATURE/GOD. When he was put to test his true nature will be revealed.

    When we cannot satisfy ourselves with the direct acceptance of Vali, we have to search for indirect evidences, which corroborate that Sri Rama was in fact Dharmaatma.

    If one goes through the Sargas containing the description of the final battle between Lakshmana and Indrajit in YUDDHA KANDA, he can find that both the warriors got exhausted after a prolonged battle and remained unconquerable to the other.

    Lakshmana used many astras during the battle to kill Indrajit but failed. Finally, fitting a missile presided over by Indra the lord of celestials, to his excellent bow and drawing it, Lakshmana addressed it the following prayer:
    धर्मात्मा सत्यसन्धश्च रामो दाशरथिर्यदि ||
    पौरुषे चाप्रतिद्वन्द्वस्तदेनं जहि रावणिम् |

    “O my dear arrow! If Rama the son of Dasaratha has set his mind on virtue, keeps up his promise and is second to none in his prowess, destroy this Indrajit.”

    When employing the astra presided by Lord Indra, he prayed to the NATURE/GOD, by invoking the ascetic power of Sri Rama in (i) upholding DHARMA at all times, (ii) honouring his word, and (iii) is second to none in his prowess, for eliminating Indrajit.

    In my view, that prayer did the job. If Sri Rama was not the upholder of Dharma, that prayer would have failed.

    Thus, we can infer that killing of Vali from behind a tree was also as per Dharma.

    Dharma is very subtle. It cannot be understood easily. If we cannot understand the subtleness of Dharma, it does not mean that an upholder of Dharma did something wrong

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