The common Muslim belief is that Allah is a shapeless and omnipresent entity. This is not only an accurate description of qualities of All-powerful Ishwar, but also in lines with Vedas.

However if we dwell into the modern Quran, we can witness an Allah which has a shape and size. This is in sharp contradiction to the established concept of Allah and hint at either there being tampering with original Quran or that Quran is not the final word of either Muhammad or Allah.

1. Surate Yunis, Ayat 3 states that Allah created the sky and earth in 6 days and then settled at the top in his throne.

2. Surate Hood, Ayat 7 states that Allah created the sky and earth in 6 days and his throne is over the water.

Tafseer Husaini, a supposedly authoritative commentary on Quran states that Allah created a green stone before creating the world and saw it with anger. This caused the stone to become water. Then Allah created air and kept water over air. Then he made his throne above this water.

It is obvious that writers of Quran were ignorant of science and hence thought that since rainfall comes from top, there must be water over air. And since there is so much empty space on top, Allah must be sitting there!

So much for Islamic science. However what is more important is that this makes clear that his throne is a finite object and hence Allah is also finite in size. Also since Allah is on his throne, he is not below the air and water. Thus the Allah of Quran is limited in shape and location, contrary to common belief of Muslims.

Please note that the concept of a shapeless, omnipresent Allah is inspired from Vedas, which form the foundation of all that is good and right in Quran. Also, unlike Quran, Vedas are available in same original form as when it was first revealed in hearts of Rishis.

3. Surate Haka 17 states that eight people will lift the throne of Allah Miyan. Tafseere Husaini details it further by stating that those who will lift the throne of Allah will have faces like goats from mountains. The distance between their ankles and knees will equal the distance from one sky to another sky.  (Islam believes there are 7 skies!)

a. Allah is definitely finite because he will be lifted by people of finite size.
b. Allah has to be smaller than the throne he sits on, at least in width.

4. Surate Sijada 5 says that He manages affairs of earth and then rises up to the sky in one Godly day which equals 1000 human years.

Now, how can someone who moves up and down in 1000 years be shapeless.

Some experts say that this description is for angels. Even if that be so, if angels take 1000 years to reach him, that also means that Allah is finite and limited in space. Because one need not travel to reach someone who is present everywhere.

This is further emphasized in Surate-Maariz Ayat 4 which states that Spirits and Angels rise up to him in 50,000 years.

Now whether the actual time taken is 50,000 years or 1000 years is another contradiction in Quran which proves that it is defective or interpolated. But regardless of that, the finite shape and limited scope of Allah is proven.

5. Sura-e-vakiya 9,10 describe Heaven and Hell. It says that Heaven is on right side of Allah’ throne and Hell on left side. Tafseer Husaini elaborates further that those who will go to Hell will go towards left of throne and those who will go to Heaven will go to right of the throne.

This proves that the throne is limited in space. Obviously, one who sits on a limited space is also limited.

6. Surate Airaf 143 states that when Allah saw the hill, it broke into pieces and Moses went unconscious. Obviously Moses must have witnessed lightning and got unnecessarily scared. But what is obvious is that the light in Allah’s eyes was finite and limited to size of the hill. So Allah has a finite-sized eye and hence is limited in shape and power.

7. Surat-Noor Ayat 35 says that Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills.

After analyzing countless commentaries, I failed to understand the meaning of this confusing Ayat. But what is important is that Allah is not beyond physical descriptions. What is lamp, glass or olive is beyond comprehension.

8. Surah-Bakr 33 to 39, Surate Airaf 9 to 15, Surate Swad 70 to 78 etc describe Allah’s discussions with Angels, Adam and Satan. Adam was allowed to entered Heaven after lot of lecturing. Angels refused to bow to Adam out of ego but then agreed. Satan refused to bow to Adam because Satan believed that none other than Allah deserves to be bowed. Allah gave time of three days to Satan but he still refused. Then Allah cursed him.

Thus Allah is one who scares, threatens, curses and gives excuses. Thus Allah is not an omnipresent, rational perfect being but an entity limited in scope and subject to whims and moods.

9. Surate Swad 75 has Allah claiming that I made Adam with my two hands. Thus showing that Allah has two hands and hence is a finite person with human form. If the use of ‘two hands’ is merely allegorical, then what is special about Adam. All entities have been built by Allah as per Quran.

10. Surate Shura 51 states that it is impossible for humans except through angels, through curtains and symbols that Allah talks to them.

Now if Allah is within all humans, there should be a mechanism by which Allah talks to them. Why would omnipresent Allah use curtain, symbol or angels?

Tafseer Husaini states explaining this Ayat that Allah talked to Muhammad between two curtains. One curtain was made of white pearls and other was embroidered with precious metals. This means Allah was also limited in space and within the curtains. Hence Islamic Allah is a small creature.

Surate Nisa 64 states that Rasul (Muhammad)  has come with true facts and hence he should be believed. Even Rasul has talked to Allah through curtain, symbols or angels. Thus there is a likelihood that Rasul has also been subject to confusion, since he did not directly witness Allah.

And that Allah becomes a finite entity not already present within all humans including Rasul.

11. Surate Fazar 22 claims that Allah will come alongwith angels in a queue during doomsday. Now obviously this coming of Allah is physical. Because if this implies coming of Allah in hearts, how can he come in hearts of the sinners whose heart is still dirty? And if the hearts of sinners are purified, why send them to Hell?

Further Ayats detail that Hell is on left side of Allah’s throne and Heaven on right side. Thus there is no doubt that the Allah of Quran is a finite sized person.

12. Some may claim that these verses have deep meanings that we cannot understand. If that be so, then the entire purpose of sending Quran is futile. Because already there were so many messages of Allah present. What is the point of sending a last and final message that is so confusing and impossible for humans to understand in one birth?

The concept of Ishwar in Vedas, the first text of humankind is significantly different. And that is why the Allah of Quran is not same as Ishwar of Vedas.


a. Ishwar is omnipresent and shapeless. Refer Yajurved 40.8.

b. There is no throne of Ishwar because He is already present everywhere.

c. Ishwar does not need to send messengers, angels, symbols or curtains to talk to humans.  Ishwar communicates with all souls through inspiration. Whenever we do a right act, we get a feeling of satisfaction, enthusiasm or bliss. When we do something wrong, we get a feeling of fear, doubt or shame. This is the way Ishwar communicates with all souls.

d. Those in direction of Ishwar follow this language of Ishwar and develop mastery over the tendencies of their minds. Thus the signals of Ishwar become clearer and clearer. In perfect form, the knowledge of Vedas is revealed. In reality the Vedas are already within us. However through efforts, we have to get rid of ignorance to illuminate the Vedas.

e. There is no heaven or hell as per Vedas. He neither punishes or rewards in Islamic sense. He simply creates opportunities for soul for its further progress as per the tendencies of mind which are further determined by our thoughts, words and actions.

f. Vedas do not believe that Ishwar suddenly created souls. Vedas state that the soul, nature and Ishwar are eternal and always present. And thus creation of universe, its maintenance and destruction are natural eternal properties of Ishwar. Hence the allegation of whimsicalness, moodiness etc do not come on Ishwar.

g. More importantly, since Ishwar is perfect, there is no need for Him to keep sending new amendments of his message every now and then. He simply communicates the eternal Vedas during inception of civilization and then continues to guide us through inspiration, as discussed above.

It seems that Muhammad wanted to convey this true nature of Ishwar, to best of his limited abilities crippled by his lack of education and epileptic disorder. However, due to conspiracy of his close mates, and his own ignorance to some extent, a defective quran was propagated after his death.

Thus there are two Allah in Islam. One Allah is that of the Vedas and other is the limited defective Allah as explained above.

Muslims would serve the true cause of Allah if they reject the defective Allah and embrace the true Ishwar of Vedas who is omnipresent, omnipotent and unchangeable.

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Allah is limited as per Quran

Limited Allah

Note: All our articles on analysis of Islam are based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives. We however believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad is totally different from what has been propagated by his namesake followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by ruling elite of Islam. Thus when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these ruling elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general. Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts. Further, we have sense of highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand correct perspective of the articles.

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Disclaimer:  We believe in "Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam" (entire humanity is my own family). "Love all, hate none" is one of our slogans. Striving for world peace is one of our objectives. For us, entire humanity is one single family without any artificial discrimination on basis of caste, gender, region and religion. By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. Please read Full Disclaimer.
    • @Noor

      Dear Sister,

      As per Islam, your intelligence is half of that of a man, this is why you did not realize that this is a Vedas site. We only believe in Vedas to be divine. The childish attempts taken to refute this article used other hindu scriptures that we do not follow. Their answers are futile because all they can think of is hatred.

      Sister, Quran clearly claims to be crystal clear, so if a verse mentions that Allah has hands, then why do you refuse to believe it???

    • @finos brother

      a) This is not a hinduism site, so your research on hinduism does not apply to this sites context
      b) Even if iit be assumed that Hinduism is wrong religion, it does not prove Islam right

      so my brother ..let us hear again as to who is misguided ?

    • @finos : I read the article… its nice and precise.. And am very much impressed with the ignorance of the author and not to mention that of your great self. Indians are the Descendents of Iranians?!!!  The word “Dravid” itself is no where in the Rig Veda and not to mention the 1 page all history of the world in your link.. Its like saying that all Muslims are the descendents of the Aryans.(even though there is no race called Aryan a term coined by Indologists who BTW were not Muslim but Christians). Honestly anyone with a zilch of intelligent and Knowledge of history would get entangled in his/her own thought if even for a second,(for sake or argument) he took what is written in the Link as true. and no one has the time to refute your baseless and intellect less and I don’t know how many other similes can i give to define the level of your and the author’s(link provided by u) intelligence or Dumbness.
      So, Brother adios.

      • @finos : Sorry its “and no one has the time to refute your baseless and intellect less claims”

  • Guys: I just want to tell something…

    Nobody has seen the GOD…the Almighty…the Ultimate…

    We all are under one scope that…GOD is only one…he is powerful…he is super power…

    Every holy text…Vedas, Quran and Bible says the same…but in different words…

    Q: Has there been a fight among the prophets…???
    A: No

    Only the hatred remain within us and not between them…

    Prophets were called as Rishis…and they don’t have any misunderstanding in the concepts…
    Atleast lets come to this conclusion…

    If these prophets say…Believe in one GOD…lets believe…and if GODs ultimate aim is to make ppl to go to heaven…if we believe in one GOD…we will go to heaven definitely…but the GOD should not have any form…and he should be the super power…

    @ Arya: Now this is my belief…if you need any clarifications on this…let me know…

    • @SSS ..beautiful message there bro

      just a thought though ..if nobody has felt god or sensed god ..shouldn’t one;s position be agnostic ?

      since god cannot be anthropomorphic and not accessible to the human senses ..a rational position can be an agnostic position ..what’s your opinion?

    • Brother SSS and Indian Agnostic
      Thanks for clearing your viewpoint brother. Just want to ask, how can one become prophet? Can I and you become prophet of God? And what was the speciality of those who were chosen as prophet?

      @Brother Indian Agnostic
      You rightly wrote brother that we all are in agnostic position. But its not just about God, we are agnostic for each and everything which exists. Ultimate knowledge of anything is impossible to be possessed by us. But we make our stand firm on the basis of logic and facts which we have come across till now. It may change the next moment of course. In case of God, you correctly pointed out that God is not accessible to human senses, which is called “Pratyaksh Pramaan”, but there is something called “Anumaan Pramaan”, which basically works on cause effect relationship. This is a principle that any effect needs a cause. However the ultimate cause should have no further cause. Since, creation is an effect and creator is the cause, there must be creator to every creation. This is evident from our world that every product needs a producer.

      Someone may ask that if that be so, who created creator? But creation is something which changes with time, e.g. adjunction and disjunction happen in matter (Prakriti), which means it changes and thus needs someone to make these changes. However, creator or Eeshvar, if assumed to be unchangeable, does not need anyone who can change it. And thus no creator is required for the ultimate creator.

      I expect your response and further discussion on this.

      • @ Arya:

        Really very good and interesting question…???

        Who are the prophets…??? Any speciality for them…???

        Prophets are chosen by GOD…(everyone says this…I will also agree…bcoz everyone is chosen by GOD…so prophets also chosen by GOD)

        Can You and me become Prophet…???
        If GOD chooses you and me, definitely we will become prophets of GOD…

        Any speciality for prophets…??? (I am just giving the common characteristicts among the prophets)
        Yes…They would believe in oneness of GOD and insist the same on the ppl…
        They would provide solutions to the existing problems in the human society…
        They would be the preachers and bring peace from GOD to the world…
        They could also be warriors…in any case if necessity arise…they would handle weapons to maintain peace in the society…
        They would also be reformists and bring change to the entire society…
        They would be one among the ppl in the society…
        There are lot more characters for prophets…

        Lots and lots of discussion could be done on this…for time being I leave it as it is…!!!

      • @SSS
        Brother, my question was not who are prophets. I asked how are they chosen? Why did not God choose me for this purpose? And if you can become prophet, what will happen to Muhammad’s word that there will be no prophet after me?

      • @ Arya:

        They are chosen by GOD…

        I cannot question GOD…why he has not chosen you or me as prophet…!!!
        bcoz of which we are calling HIM as Super power…!!!

        I understand your intension…your basic question should be…Why we need prophets or why we need prophecy…???

        Just think…Standardization and Globalization are basic things we know…

        Prophecy is also the same…bringing Standardization to the lives of ppl…to agree upon a fact…if its good or bad…providing a standard solution to issues…!!!

      • @Brother SSS
        Is not God just? If yes then why did he not give everyone equal chance to become prophet? If no then why should I believe in Him?

        No, you did not understand my intention. My intention was the same as given in my words!

      • @ Arya:

        First we agree upon a fact…that everyone is not equal…even Prophets are also human…

        Prophets are good in prophecy…but may lack in some other things…

        Let me ask you one basic question…

        Why everyone cannot become a leader…???

        If you are running a school, why everyone can’t be a Principal for that…???
        Since bcoz of you are selecting a Principal, does it mean that you are not just???

        Before selecting a principal, we need to know…if he is capable for doing the job or not…???

        So GOD may be doing the same (I dont know)…which my small brain got by HIS blessings…and he might have a criteria for that as well…!!!

        GOD has not given you prophecy (even I don’t know this as well)…but he might have given you something else…Just think through…

        If you still disagree, post the same to GOD…you will definitely get the answer from GOD…

        Even I remember a quoting from Quran, when Moses said…”I am the only person who got wisdom in this world…”…GOD asked him to search for one more person and asked him to gain knowledge from that person…

        I don’t know…if I could quote a better verse from some other holy texts…but my intention is to show here….

        Even though Moses is a prophet…GOD forced him to gain knowledge from one more…meaning that no person is greater than others…!!!

        Hence GOD is just to everyone…he gave you one of the best thing in the world…!!!

      • @SSS
        When you say everyone is not equal, I have the reason for it. But you dont have! You have to accept that God made him/her that way. For example one born with leadership qualities and intellect will become principal or the leader. For you, God chose to give him intellect and chose not to give it to others. Again God is unjust. So dont give the leader or principal example. In the end, you have to accept that you cant ask from God that why has He done unjust? This is the difference between Vedas and Quran (I know you follow it). Quran does not allow you to question beyond some limit. Vedas allow us for questioning anything which comes to our mind.

        If you want, I can give you the answer of these differences. But before that, you should accept that God is unjust!

      • @ Arya:

        GOD’s definition seems to be unjust for you…but it seems to be just for me…

        “born with leadership qualities and intellect” — I totally disagree, since anyone is capable of earning the same…It is not GOD who decides, its the man who does evil or good…hence it depends on one to gain the wisdom…

        In your view…I always follow Quran…its ok…as I said…Prophets or Rishis..they won’t differ in their opinions…

        Hence whatever you show in Vedas, Bible…I can show the same in Quran also…thats the common among the scriptures…even they vary in some facts of arriving at the solutions…!!!

      • @SSS
        Many children are born abnormal. I have myself seen some teenagers, who were born with subnormal intelligence. They cant go to normal schools, forget about them becoming principal or leader. Many people are born handicapped. Many people die at early ages, some are born to slaves, very common in Islamic countries few centuries ago. Why is there so much of difference from the starting of everyone’s journey with each other? Many even die in wombs without realizing that God is just!

        Regarding Vedas, I am giving you a Mantra, Rigved 8/98/11, which says- “Tvam hi nah pita vaso tvam maata shatkrato babhoovith”, it means- “O Eeshvar! You are our father and mother”.

        I would like you to show me the verse from Quran, which establish this relationship of parents and kids between God and us.

      • @ Arya:

        Thanks for giving the mantra…

        The first verse of the Quran itself has the same meaning mentioned by you from Vedas…

        “Praise be to GOD who sustains the whole universe…” (1:1) Quran

        Even though Vedas mentioned it as “O Eeshvar! You are our father and mother”, the internal meaning of the mantra states…GOD as sustainer…

        You can get the similar wordings from Bible as well…mentioning every prophet as Son of GOD…even ppl also as son of GOD…

      • @SSS
        Brother, so you accept that God is unjust?

        Another Ved Mantra is from Yajurved, which says- “vyadadhaat shaashvateebhyah samaabhyah”, which means “Eeshvar is the controller of all unborn and imperishable entities i.e. souls and matter”. Here matter and souls are given as unborn. Please show me the verse from Quran which talks the same.

      • @ Arya:

        Still I didn’t accept GOD is unjust…

        “Eeshvar is the controller of all unborn and imperishable entities i.e. souls and matter”
        In Quran, you can find the verse 7:172, where it says “And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware”

        Where before birth, the souls were grouped and agreed upon a fact as “We obey One GOD”…which means internally the Souls were under the control of GOD…

      • @SSS
        Brother, its up to you what do you think of God now. But logically your model of God is unjust, it is proved.

        Regarding the verse, point here is not control on souls, point here is they are uncreated as per Vedas. I ask you where is it mentioned in Quran that souls and matter are uncreated?

      • @ Arya:

        As I said, each holy text doesn’t have any contradictions between them. What we have understood from them are the contradictions…

        In the above verse, which I have mentioned, internal meaning also has proved souls are uncreated…!!!

        You can still see in Quran and could not find any verse which speaks that Souls are created by GOD…thats the reason HE is called as Sustainer of the whole universe…!!!

      • @SSS
        OK brother. I am glad that you have accepted souls and matter to be uncreated. But can you name any single Muslim scholar who believes so? And one more thing is about polygamy and sex slavery. Vedas strictly recommend monogamy whereas Quran allows up to 4 wives and innumerable concubines for men. What do you say?

        I believe in reincarnation of souls and hence believe in theory of Karma. Every sorrow or happiness is the result of our own deeds. So in my model of Eeshvar, He does not choose anyone as prophet. People put their efforts and get the results. There is no ultimate prophet in my model, rather anyone, who does good deeds, becomes Rishi. More is his purity of soul, bigger is his status.

      • @ Arya:

        I don’t want any muslim scholar to answer…even I ashamed of talking about them…

        About Polygamy:
        I have given the answer for this in my earlier comments. GOD knows much better than what we know…I agree upon the fact GOD allows Polygamy…
        Please provide the verse from Vedas for Monogamy — for my better understanding

        About Sex slaves:
        There are no Sex slaves as far as any religion is considered. Even though I saw so many quotes from hadith…which I also have read earlier…consider the situation in which ppl capture others as slaves…
        Even there were men slaves also…they were allowed to marry…
        In case of women slaves…they are also humans…they have the feelings…since that should not lead to prostitution…treating them as wives is allowed in Islam…and its the owner who has to treat them with honour…thats clearly mentioned in Quran and Hadith…

        “Every sorrow or happiness is the result of our own deeds.”
        The same concept is explained in Islam as “Innamal A’maalu bin niyyaat”, which means “All actions are by your thoughts”…
        Infact, there are some hadith which clears…”A thorn which sticks to your leg is due to your action…” which we can call it as Karma…!!!

        But prophets are different, they are chosen…even prophets are bind to Karma…they will earn what they Sow…!!!
        Inspite of that…they were given the message to bring Standards to human lives and everyone to agree upon an act to decide..if the act is wrong or right…!!!

        Again, I am not denying “More is his purity of soul, bigger is his status”…A man by his act can become more pure and can become bigger in his status…which is the ultimate aim of the message of the prophets to bring forth…Hence, I accept that also…”A man by his good deeds can be definitely in a great status to GOD”… 🙂

        The same thing only…I explained it from the history of Moses…Moses is a prophet but he learnt the lessons from another person…who knows GOD better than him and he was not a prophet…

        Prophets are only messengers…but ppl can be better than him…

        But still GOD knows better than us…I leave this portion for you to think through…!!!

      • @SSS
        Please go to the following link in which monogamy in Vedas is discussed

        Brother you are confused on the issue of sex slavery in Islam. On one hand you say its not there and on other hand you say that slaves should be treated nicely! Well, your claim that slaves can be treated as wives is wrong. Sex slaves are those who are lawful for any Momin after 4 wives already. So sex slaves are not wives as per Quran.

        Regarding Karma, I have already given you the examples in previous comments that everyone has different starting points with different conditions of happiness and sorrow. I asked you why? What does theory of Karma of Quran say about any joy or sorrow which one feels in his/her childhood without doing any actions?

        Prophets are not bond to Karma, Hadith says that Muhammad’s heart was washed by Zamzam water and then faith and righteousness were poured into his heart. Where is Karma coming into the picture? If Allah would pour these things in my heart too, I would have also become prophet! Again it proves that Allah is unjust.

        And according to you, even now, one can become prophet. But Quran says that Muhammad was the final prophet and no other prophet will come after him. This is a contradiction brother.

      • @ Arya:

        Thanks for your reply…

        I have read monogamy in Vedas…But in most of the places only explanation is given….not the translation of verses…I need the actual verse and translation…anyhow I can take the same from Vedas…

        I am not contradicting in my own words, I didn’t say…Slaves are not in any religion…I said Sex slaves is not in any religion…I meant to say slaves are there but they are not Sex slaves…Since they also have feelings…that should not propogate Prostitution…having Sex with Wives is allowed…if possible they can be liberalised and made free…even if possible they can be treated as wives…after their liberalization…

        Slavery is a general practice in those days and it is not a sin…and slowly Islam made it to disappear from society…

        Hence there are various points to be noted…in this case…!!!
        Just think in terms of practical knowledge…you would be able to get the things into your mind…!!!

        Regarding Karma…

        There are Quran verses and hadith which says…”Everyone will be paid what they earned here during day of judgement…”…Even Mohammed and anyother prophets are also on the same category…
        Mohammed’s heart cleaned with Zamzam water is not acceptable in any case…even Mohammed and all the prophets has to wait for their own judgement in the judgement day…!!!
        Because Mohammed was faith and righteous…he might have chosen as Prophet…!!!

        The various versions of Holy texts itself is a proof for Karma…!!!

        It is not according to me…anyone can become a prophet…I said its GOD wish…HE can make anyone to become a prophet…and it is in HIS wish too…

        Based on the ppls karma…the Sins exists…and it makes the new release of version of Holy texts…as I have understood…

        As far as holy texts are concerned…they address the issues related to their society…and finally Quran is the holy text which address all the issues and provide solutions to them…
        It is purely based on GOD’s decision and not of anyone else…and if HE declares Quran as final holy text…let’s accept that… 😀 Surely we need to accept and we can’t raise any question against HIM…even if we raise any question also…it will be in vein…it again doesn’t mean that…HE is unjust…

        “Everyone has different starting points with different conditions of happiness and sorrow.”…Your answer could be “because of various life cycle”…First answer from your point of view…let me answer after from mine… 🙂

      • @ Arya:

        Sorry for the mistake in my words…

        I have read monogamy in the given link…But in most of the places only explanation is given….not the translation of verses…I need the actual verse and translation…anyhow I can take the same from Vedas…

      • @Brother SSS
        1. I showed you that sex slavery in Islam is a legal practice and Muhammad himself did that. You have to accept now that Islam is not a religion!
        2. Zamzam story is clearly mentioned in Sahih Hadith. If you dont agree to that, you cant agree with Quran too because Ahadith are the context of revelation of Quranic verses and sayings and actions of Muhammad.
        3. Choosing anyone as prophet is itself a violation of Karma theory, I have proven it in previous comments.
        4. If someone can become prophet now, it is contradictory to Quran, which says that Muhammad is final prophet. What do you say?
        5. So you accept that there are many versions of Quran available today? Then who knows, the very claim of Quran of being it Allah’s word might be a later day interpolation!
        6. Allah is unjust and I have proven it before. And your words “we cant raise questions against Allah” is again the sign of some dictatorship which Quranic Allah seems to be showing.
        7. You have answered already about different conditions that it is Allah’s wish and you cant question Him and I have also given my views on this matter.

      • @ Arya:

        Below are the answers to your list above:

        1. Still I didn’t agree on the point of Sex slaves in Islam. Mohammed didn’t have any sex slave. All of them were his wives.

        2. Every Hadith is not valid. Since bcoz I have written something and say that…this is a hadith…that doesn’t mean that it is valid,

        3. Choosing a prophet is to bring Standards to human lives…hence it is not violence to Karma…even Prophets have to undergo Karma…This I have made it clear already..

        4. I said thats GOD wish…if he says Quran is the final verse and Mohammed is the final prophet…then we need to accept it..

        5. I didn’t say many versions of Quran…I said many versions of Holy text…meant to say…From Vedas till Quran…are the versions of Holy text…if Vedas are the earlier versions then Quran is the latest version…and I said these versions came from GOD bcoz of karma by ppl…to agree upon an act and to decide it as Sin or not…there by bringing standards to human lives…

        6. I am saying GOD is GOD…and you are saying…Why I can’t be GOD…which is a contradiction???

        I am asking just simple question…
        What are your views on divorce…???
        If monogamy is to be followed…will you not accept divorce…???

      • ❰@SSS: I said Sex slaves is not in any religion❱

        Sorry friend you have not read the following verse of the quran which is actually a license to have sex with salves:

        Quran Al Mumenoom verse 5,6
        “Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are FREE FROM BLAME”

        the same command is repeated in Quran AL-MAARIJ 30

        “Except with their wives and the (women slaves and captives) whom their right hands possess, for (then) they are not to be blamed”


        So you see , Allah has given TWO VERSES to sanction this act for muslims ..He’s doubly sure about that ..i wonder why you doubt him at all?

        ❰@SSS: Since they also have feelings…that should not propogate Prostitution❱

        I agree with this point that while legally a muslim can have unbridled sex with his slave girl or woman is advised (not compulsory!!!) for muslims to not make money out of their slave girls through prostitution IF POSSIBLE ..BUT if any muslim does uses his slaves for prostitution the strangely- Merrciful and Kind Allah forgives [email protected]#$ 🙁

        Quran 24:33
        Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And IF ONE FORCE THEM them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah WILL BE FORGIVING, Merciful.

        ❰@sss:Slavery is a general practice in those days and it is not a sin…and slowly Islam made it to disappear from society❱

        In this civilized world’s only Islamic countries that PROMOTE the idea of sex slaves ..Saudi is a shining example of that

        islam has made slavery permanent in muslim society…so it will stay as long as Islam stays

        and by the way any kind of slavery is INDEED a sin ..It’s another thing that you would only appreciate it when you are enslaved by someone else.

        ❰@SSS: Because Mohammed was faith and righteous…he might have chosen as Prophet…!!!❱

        Mohammad not only took liberties for himself BUT he disobeyed his own Allah ..he was not righteous by his own acts 🙁

        He was commanded not to marry any more wives in the quran after he had married his daughter in law..but he did not stop and married more gals

        ❰@sss: I said its GOD wish…HE can make anyone to become a prophet❱

        and here is the biggest contention ..Why did this ‘God’ did not choose a person who could follow His commands ? ..this shows that this god is no god as he chose the wrong person, was less powerful than Satan and supported malpractices of the 7th century arabia

        ❰@sss: and finally Quran is the holy text which address all the issues and provide solutions to them❱

        with so many errors and omissions ..the quran a suspect book anyways

        On top of it, the argument that “the quran is the book of god because quran says so” is as preposterous as irrational.

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        The verse doesn’t mention as Sex slaves…they are slaves and you can have sex with them…thats respecting their feelings…and by controlling prostitution…

        If a person use a slave girl for prostitution…he should be punishable…

        As you mentioned, Slavery is an act existed in the world before Mohammed was born…so what you said is incorrect…
        See everything in the world has changed…but not the minds…still the basic thing to “keeping a servant in our home” still exists…and is still acceptable…why?…bcoz… you are paying for them…ideally you are commanding a person to work…hence it is a form of slavery…!!!
        if you are not satisfied, pls explain the term slavery…!!!

        Quran 24:33 says, “And marry widows from among you, and your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of His bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-knowing. ”

        There are verses in Quran which scold Mohammed also…it is a proof of being prophet and the holy book…

        Please answer my above question,

        What is your view on divorce…???
        If monogamy is to be followed, will you accept the concept of divorce or not…???

      • @ Arya, @ Indian Agnostic:

        For your further reference,

        Please read the below verse also…

        [4:3] And if you fear that you will not be fair in dealing with the orphans, then marry of women as may be agreeable to you, two, or three, or four; and if you fear you will not deal justly, then marry only one or what your right hands possess. That is the nearest way for you to avoid injustice.

        Please answer my below question,

        What is your view on divorce…???
        If monogamy is to be followed, will you accept the concept of divorce or not…???

      • @SSS
        “The verse doesn’t mention as Sex slaves…they are slaves and you can have sex with them”

        Brother, catch this one- “Quran is not a divine revelation….it is revelation which can be said as divine”!!!

        Yes, divorce is an option if needed. Whats the problem? How is monogamy contradicting divorce?

      • @ Arya:

        After getting divorce, will anyone be allowed to marry another girl or boy…???

        If you follow monogamy, this should be totally avoided…what do you say…???

        If anyone marries after divorce…it could be either polyandry or polygamy…??? So how does monogamy solve the issue…???
        Please explain in detail…!!!

        Either you can say Quran as divine…or it is divine revelation…!!! that doesn’t matter…but it is divine…

        GOD knows better than us…What we know is a drop…and not a ocean…!!! 😀 😀 😀

      • @SSS
        Yes, remarriage is allowed. Monogamy means “having one spouse at a time” as per dictionary and common sense both. So divorce and monogamy dont contradict at all.

        Rest is left for readers who are following this discussion.

      • @ indian agnostic
        [17:32] You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.

        [4:16] The couple who commits adultery shall be punished. If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

        and now you would say sex with slaves is halal, so my reply would be to search the term ”adultery” brother as arya brother told to search the term monogamy in t, i can reply you with many verses, but i have left it to you now, when you will start reading the Qur’an you will understand everything, brother you know the people who hate will never show the exact thing so you need to read the Qur’an in order to understand it

      • @ Arya:

        I am not asking monogamy in dictionary and common sense…I am asking monogamy in Vedas… 🙂 …Please reply within context…

        As I said, Holy texts won’t contradict themselves…

        As per Vedas, Monogamy is insisted…but Polygamy is not restricted…similarly Polygamy is allowed in Islam and Monogamy is considered best in Quran… 🙂

        Please understand the holy texts…From Vedas till Quran…they are the various versions of revelations by GOD…and they are brought to the world based on the karma of the ppl…They are sent to bring standards in the society and to agree upon a act as Sin or not…Standardization is a must in every society…

        GOD knows better than us…What we know is a drop…and not a ocean…!!!

      • ❰@SSS: The verse doesn’t mention as Sex slaves…they are slaves and you can have sex with them…thats respecting their feelings…and by controlling prostitution…❱

        The golden principle @SSS quite simple : “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”

        If you say that as a mark of respect the muslims have sex with their female slaves …Shouldn’t the male slaves return the same ‘respect’ to the muslim masters wives

        I think many of Muhammad’s male slaves would have respected the feelings of Muhammad;s wives in the same way ..if you agree to that kind of respect , i have no objection apart from the fact is this highly immoral.

        ❰@SSS: If a person use a slave girl for prostitution…he should be punishable…❱

        I shared a Quranic verse with you ..that clearly states that even if a muslim pimps his slaves Allah will forgive him.

        why would muslims listen to you? ..Allah has spoken the last word ..slave prostitution is not recommended BUT HALAAL in Islam !

        ❰@SSS: As you mentioned, Slavery is an act existed in the world before Mohammed was born…so what you said is incorrect…
        See everything in the world has changed…but not the minds…still the basic thing to “keeping a servant in our home” still exists…and is still acceptable…why?…bcoz… you are paying for them…ideally you are commanding a person to work…hence it is a form of slavery…!!!
        if you are not satisfied, pls explain the term slavery…!!!❱

        Theres a huge difference between a slave and a servant( ‘attendant’ would be the more appropriate word i guess)

        a slave is NOT FREE ..not free to move out of his masters clutches , not free to NOT BE RAPED by the master, not free to choose another employer, not free to demand a salary or raise, not free to dream to be equal to the muslim master, not free to protest when beaten, not free to be treated as a human but a commodity to be bought and sold

        an attendant(or servant) is free to change jobs, demand a salary hike, and dream to be equal and if he works hard the ladder of growth is not snatched away from him, is free to register a police complaint against the employer if he gets physical, free to negotiate for the time he/she spends in service and is not an item that can be sold or bought.

        BTW, i rest my case against you on this point have got some deep problems of morality and i am no psychiatrist it’s futile to discuss this point further.

        Any rational person who reads your viewpoint would sure leave Islam if he finds out that your viewpoint is indeed the viewpoint of Islam ..unfortunately it is 🙁

        ❰@SSS: Quran 24:33 says, “And marry widows from among you, and your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of His bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-knowing. ”❱

        What’s so out of the world about this verse..In case of slaves it becomes all the more disgusting ..think of a married slave man having to share his wife at his master’s’s disgusting to say the least.

        ❰@SSS: There are verses in Quran which scold Mohammed also…it is a proof of being prophet and the holy book…❱

        Despite the scolding Muhammad disobeys Allah …like marrying more wives despite the injunction

        best regards

      • @ indian agnostic
        ❰@great: [17:32] You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.

        [4:16] The couple who commits adultery shall be punished. If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

        and now you would say sex with slaves is halal, ❱

        as you can see from the verses i have quoted, not only slave sex is hallah but even slave prostitution is halaal (although it is not recommended )

        Quran 24:33
        FORCE NOT your slave-girls to WHOREDOM that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And IF ONE FORCE THEM them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! ALLAH WILL BE FORGIVING, Merciful.

        tell me brother how proud you feel in blindly believing in a so called God who sanctions slavery , allows sex with those slaves and on top of that forgives if one runs a sex racket of those slaves that what you call religion????


        ❰@great: so my reply would be to search the term ”adultery” brother as arya brother told to search the term monogamy in t,❱

        This question becomes redundant due to the fact that almost every wrong thing becomes halaal in islam 🙁

        but just for your information , the prophet was asked NOT to marry any more wives after zainab ..HE did not obey Allah’s command ..hence all other relations apart from those wives were indeed adulterous 🙁

        ❰@great: i can reply you with many verses, but i have left it to you now, when you will start reading the Qur’an you will understand everything, brother you know the people who hate will never show the exact thing so you need to read the Qur’an in order to understand it❱

        In response i can give you a greater number of verses brother ..but that is besides the point.

        i humbly request you to see yourself in the place of a slave who is trapped inside a muhammaden harem ..if you have some humanity left in you’d leave islam without a doubt

        but if fellow human beings are not equal in your ideology (as is evident from your support of sex with slaves and enslavement itself) …i would always oppose such ideologies

        for me all humanity is one family and slavery and sex with slaves are better suited for uncultured 7th century desert nomads, not for an Indian at all

        i pray that you are not an Indian ..we Indians irrespective of religious ideologies ..have a lot of humanity left in us ..Islam’s ideology is not suited for us at all

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        I have asked a question to you and you didn’t reply back to that till now…

        Quran [24:33] says, “And marry widows from among you, and your male slaves and female slaves who are fit for marriage. If they be poor, Allah will grant them means out of His bounty; and Allah is Bountiful, All-knowing. ”

        See if you know Arabic, translate it…and write it…if its meaning that actually…we can accept it…

        I think you have common sense…I have written it for your better understanding only…if you need more explanations..I can give…even I am not a psychiatrist to explain all that…

        I utter that you should be a stupid Brahmin to say this…”You are not an Indian…”…whenver it hits your logic…you will reply like this only…as I said its in your blood… and you are the dominating guys…!!! 🙁 🙁 🙁

        Being an Indian, I am shamed of your prayer…

        I said…that is a form of slavery…pls read the meaning of slavery and reply back SIR….!!! I think you know English….!!!
        The person who is working for Government also binds under that category…

        If you are a slave, you can better understand that…but you can’t…

        Because of having humanity only…I am writing replies to you…!!!

        First stop these things and reply for the question given below…
        Whats your stand point on divorce and remarriage…!!!

        GOD knows much better than us…Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        For your better reference,

        [4:26] And whoso of you cannot afford to marry free, believing women, let him marry what your right hands possess, namely, your believing handmaids. And Allah knows your faith best; you are all one from another; so marry them with the leave of their masters and give them their dowries according to what is fair, they being chaste, not committing fornication, nor taking secret paramours. And if, after they are married, they are guilty of lewdness, they shall have half the punishment prescribed for free women. This is for him among you who fears lest he should commit sin. And that you restrain yourselves is better for you; and Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

      • @ Indian Agnostic

        Quran [24:33] But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess – then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

        Here it says, dealing with slaves. One hand, ordering the owner of the slaves, not to involve them in prostitution…On the other hand, if a slave is forcefully involved in prostitution…the slave will be forgiven and GOD will be merciful upon the slave…

        Can you tell me, where it is written as the Owner will be forgiven…???
        If a owner force a slave in prostitution…he is punishable…!!!

        I think you have understood…!!!

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        Can’t you see this in Quran…???

        Quran [24:4] And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.

      • ❰@SSS : Can’t you see this in Quran…???

        Quran [24:4] And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.❱

        can’t YOU see this in Quran ?

        And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- THEIR SOLITARY EVIDENCE(CAN BE RECEIVED) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

        what kind of a pathetic unjust joke is Quran ..a man repeating the allegation four times becomes four witnesses!!

        not your fault ..the more you try to defend the Quran the murkier it gets ..get out of blind faith bro !

        PS: I have already told you that i have rested my case against slavery with you .Since you find slavery to be good, I pray to almighty god that you along with your near and dear ones get the privilege of becoming a slave..happy?

      • @ Indian Agnostic :

        Quran [24:7] And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars.

        Its not pathetic…not unjust joke…this is really true…this shows the real existence of GOD…if you are not able to understand…I can’t do anything…

        Q: Can you really think one into such a situation…what he will do…???
        A: Nothing

        Anyhow one need to prove that his wife’s fault in the court…Do you think..he can get judgement…???

        Sir…this is really a wonderful solution which GOD himself is the judge…!!!

        Did I say..anywhere Slavery is good…I said..Slavery can’t be prevented…and Quran is dealing with that…

        Q: Don’t you see…so many girls were now put into Prostitution…Will they be punishable under law…???
        A: You will say ‘Yes’…but Quran says ‘No’…bcoz its not bcoz of willingness they involved in Prostitution…they were forced to do that…Hence they were forgiven by GOD…and they can lead a good life in the society..once recovered from slavery…

        Just think SIR…how Quran has given justice to the whole world…!!!

        You can pray for me anything…but karma decides…!!!

        GOD knows better than us…Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!

      • @SSS

        why would a man who suspects his wife to be adulterous not swear by Allah? ..that’s the very reason he would have come to the kangaroo court of Islam..

        MOREOVER shared a verse to show that four separate witnesses are required ..and i showed you that separate people are not required…the man can say it four times and Allah the gullible will accept it.

        It’s a travesty of justice and a joke in the name of a law!

        Now Sir, since you bring prostitution again ..go visit the verse one more time

        There is NO PUNISHMENT for the muslim who pimps his slave gals..It’s just that the gals would not be punished by allah for indulging in that act too

        The quran has a clear verdict ..that it’s a complete book ..if it does not mention about the punishment of a muslim pimp cannot punish him at all.period!

        and sir, as i have already said … with you i will agree ..that you must become a slave why are we bringing this point again and again love slavery you should become a slave ..i hate it i will have my freedom ..what say?

        best regards

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        Prostitution itself is banned in Islam…and the person who involves in it will be per if he/she is married or not…

        So there is no question…if a owner is forcing a slave in prostitution…he should be punished by law…there is no need for a separate verse in Quran…!!!

        And moreover, I think you need to revisit the verse again and read…whether the owner is free from punishment…or the slave who is forced to prostitution is free from slave…

        Just think…How wonderful Islam is…!!!
        1. Even if a boy/girl is forced to Prostitution…his/her virginity still remains with him/her…since it is forced to him/her…
        2. He/She cannot punished by law…bcoz he/she is forced to the act of prostitution unwillingly…

      • @SSS : you are right when you say “i don’t know” and that’s true for everyone but the fact remains why did god choose an individual only, and if you say he had some qualities, then the question is why only he had those qualities.. Why not others.. And as far as principal thing is concerned even though irrelevant in this case itself answers your question… I.e. because he has gained the qualification by his own efforts(through a medium of course).(so here is the concept of Karma)
        You are again right by saying that every one is not equal in all respects and this is a fact that no other path understands better than the Veda, one can follow multiple routines(gnayan,bhakti,yog) as per his/her affiliations and surroundings and attain the same goal. There is no hard and fast rule as the same jacket should fit all jack and jill the same or else he/she is a kuffar.
        Besides that, God is something that may not be understood by ANY man/woman coz as the Veda say he is beyond the senses so whosoever it may be if he/she is bound by human senses of perception his/her description of god and his words (if claimed to be specifically from GOD himself/herself/itself) as is Quran, is outright to be Discarded on the grounds of the understanding of the concept of God himself/herself/itself.
        Hope you understand.
        Om Tat Sat Brahmarpan astu

      • @ आर्यव्रतस्थ:

        “I dont know”, I meant to say…I dont know about every individual…who he is…!!!

        I agree with your words “gained the qualification by his own efforts”…

        I dont know still what you have understood from my words…

        “every one is not equal in all respects” means that everyone irrespective of their affiliation and surroundings can attain the same goal…which internally has the meaning…

        Finally I dont know..pls provide the summary of your analysis…!!!

      • @ Indian Agnostic:

        Can’t you see this in Quran…???

        Quran [24:4] And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.

  • mr steve ur just wasting ur time bcoz all d questions that u have raised are answered by rishi dayanand in satyarth prakash and rigvedadibhashyabhumika pls read atleast once pls ask zakir naik to raise some new questions other wise except truth and leave the sect of rapist,dacoit,murder i.e mohammad

  • my questions to all d muslims is that founder of wahabi sect in his book says that allah has beautiful face,also dr naik in one of his speech also mentoned that”allah has hands but in what form allah knows best”,pls clarify allah has shape or is it shape less

  • @forgivemeallah
    namaste brother,
    We all should follow one which is best, the one which has no discrimination, no barbarism and in which, God does not need any witness because He is omnipresent and all knowing. It should have love for all and hatred for none.

  • Bro If U really want to Understant the meaning of Islam Or Allah U should ask Questions to a person who knows Islam & Quran e.g if i come to u asking questions abt Vedas might be u will make some mistakes..

    • @ alam

      If u really want to learn islam or quran ur at right place….ask aryaji…he is all knowledge….

  • one person says in Quran it is said that if u see a kaffir kill him but they are gvng u half knowledge e.g i tell u in Mahabart Krishanji telling pandavas to kill all the cousin brothers people will say how extremist hindus are but when u learn more abt it Krishanji is sayng these in the state of war(when battle of Mahabarat was going on)….Same way when u learn ..Quran it is mentioned Kill all the kaffirs but it was in the state of War & not only this further it is also mentioned that if anyone wants o make peace with u,..u shold nt only make peace with thm but also protect them & if some body is syng kaffir it doesnt mean Hindu or etc …I believe in theory ….Every religion is good It teaches a man to be good

    • @alam
      brother namaste,
      have you seen any hindu blowing non hindus in the name of Mahabharat? I mean has any hindu ever fought with non hindu by saying that it is written in mahabharat? Mahabharat was fought because of injustice and not because of a deen. But many muslims fight, loot, rape, blow the non muslims in the name of Quran. This is the difference. Second thing is that the verses which you are telling, have been canceled according to many muslim scholars. You can ask all this to any Aalim.
      I respect your views on kafir etc, but does Quran say so? Until I believe in Muhammad, I wont get heaven in spite of whatever good I have done in my life. Quran clearly says that whoever does not believe in prophets, angels, heaven, hell, all are kafir and they will be burnt in everlasting fire of hell.

  • Dear children of GOD, what ever religion you belief love it more. DO NOT condemn others beliefs. It's just like other telling you that your mother do not know how to rise you ! As a Muslim, you may have refer to a corrupted quran. Example the quran I have do not mention Allah have two hands ! Anyway I'm not to debate about other religion, it's against our belief. Respect other's religion is compulsory for us as stated in the quran I have. GOD have created many races and religions, choose the one of your own choice to reach GOD.
    May your pure hearth and soul guide you. Sholom.

    • Namaste

      Religion is not mother. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices that we inherit simply because we were born in a particular family. Just as we do not accept being poor and weak because we were born that way, we should not accept anything merely because the family I was born in, believes so. By that logic, a terrorist's son should always be a terrorist.

      One should always be eager to change beliefs and practices to be more truthful, rational and humane.

      What is also important is that the underlying theme of any change in self or others should be compassion, and not hatred. We may argue, differ and debate on various issues. But the moment I start believing that you are cursed forever, I am beginning to hate. Vedas are strictly against it.

      In brief do not start blindly loving any religion merely because you were born in that. But also do not start hating those who not subscribe to your beliefs. Always have the same attitude towards people in world that a mother has towards her child. Vedas say that we may love each other in same manner that a cow loves her new-born calf!

      By the way, are their different Qurans? I have used most authentic tafseers of Quran including Tafseer-e-Jalalyn and Sahih International. You can check it out at or any other site. Same is given in all other Quran translations in Hindi, Urdu and English that I have come across. Refer 38.75

      May peace be upon us all!

      • Angiveer bhai,

        How come one take a normal muslims belief a basis to the passage. There are plenty of misconceptions in current day Muslims. You red the Quran, and you concluded that Allah is finite and in some shape.

        Well, I bet you can't show me a single word OMNIPRESENT in Qoran. Allah is not OMNIPRESENT,His Knowledge is OMNIPRESENT. if some one has wrote Allah is OMNIPRESENT he mean Allah's Knowledge is OMNIPRESENT.

        Allah is Shapeless. What does it mean.
        In my biological science class my teacher used to say, "Ameego is shapeless". We all know Water is color less.
        Is really water a color less or we don't have a name to give it?
        Is really Ameego hasn't has the shape or we weren't able to figure it out its shape?
        Water has no taste to it…does it really have no taste or we are unable to describe its taste?

        Our knowledge is limited, and we can't define the taste of water. we know very few tastes sweet, hot, sour etc…water hasn't have any of these tastes it is totally a new taste. We don't know how to name it hence we started saying water is tasteless. same thing with waters color. we know some standard colors, other than that we can't name them and we call those colors as color less.

        but this water has its specific taste and its unique color.

        Same way Allah has a shape but can't be described with worldly things. Allah is finite , I mean he has particular size but we can't measure it. Allah says human brain cant imagine and name His shape, we didn't ever seen such a shape and structure in this world.

        Allah, certainly has some shape which we don't know and finite to certain limit which we can't imagine of.

        One more question to you..what do you suggest me if I've got to read vedas?
        Ideally, VEDAS has to be read in its own scripture language (I guess its Sanskrit). if I know that language.
        Translations will obviously lead to some misinterpretations.
        Hence everyone says the translations of Qoran are not 100% accurate. Content is fine but the interpretation or the translation may deviate its originality.

        If one has to understand QORAN, its better they learn Arabic and read it.

        you qouted some aayat above, that Allah has created earth in 6days. in Arabic it is represented as 6 AYYAMS.

        AYYAM meaning not exactly a day. its meaning is " periods of time. " SO earth has been created in 6 Periods of time.

        a period of time can be 2 days, 3 days, 10 days or more or less. Allah knows the best.

        And for some aayat we shouldn't take the literal meaning of it.

        "I'll say to my friend, you go buddy I'll back you up". It doesn't mean I'll stay back of my friend. It's meaning is I'll stay with him.
        Translation sometimes go wrong.

        One more thing…to understand Allah, don't look at the Muslims, rather look at the Qoran and all the Prophets.

      • @Arya Musafir,

        Salaam to you…You follow yours I follow mine…your words won't reduce my Imaan a bit. This is the last discussion with you…but, be witness to God that I did try to tell you something.

      • hi arya musafir,
        The purpose of creation is to test human. Allah sent prophets to all people as guide line to right path,

      • @jasim
        namaste dear friend,
        1. what was the purpose of testing the non existing ones? Islam believes that Allah created souls and matter. You say Allah has made them to test human! Brother, why did He create humans at all? And this is another interesting thing that human is created to test human! Testing procedure comes later, but before that, question of very existence of examinee comes. It seems that examinee has been created to write exam!
        2. And when Allah created all, all their deeds have already been fixed by Allah and their fate has been written in Lohe Mehfooz. Humans just fulfill, what Allah has destined for them. So, in this case, a muslim is muslim because he was made muslim by Allah, and a kafir is kafir because Allah has written his fate that way! Then you tell me, what do you mean by testing? Is Allah not sure, whether His writing of Lohe Mehfooz will be fulfilled or not?

      • @jasim

        brother, islam is just like a 3 hour film where we are all the actors and actresses, and Allah is the producer, director, and writer of the film. All we have to do is play the roles he has written for us, but my question is why did Allah give me the villain role and u the hero role? Brother, for the sake of argument even if I agree with u, that we are being tested, then my next question is why are we given different lengths of tests? Its ok to have a different test, just like in school, all students are given different versions of the same test, BUT THEY ARE ALL GIVEN THE SAME TIME LIMIT TO COMPLETE THE TEST, BUT UR ALLAH HAS GIVEN SOMEONE 40 YEARS SOMEONE 100 YEARS EVEN SOME BABIES LIKE 1 SECOND MEANING THEY GET KILLED IN WOMB……..NOW MY QUESTION IS WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???????????

      • Tell me on thing.

        What happened to the millions of generations of people who lived and died before Islam.
        Will they all go to hell as they did not obey the God? Why God did not give them the chance to learn the ways of Islam and reach heaven?

      • Shalom, Namste, Cho San, Greetings, Kahbar Tek, Hello,

        Beautiful words created by GOD for all mankind to use to greet. I don't compare notes but exchange notes on religions. Knowledge is endless. Even we use all the earth water to make ink and all the trees to make paper to write GOD knowledge, it's still not enough.

        Peace is always there for one to seek with pure hearth and soul.

      • There are so may quotes from Quran that you have quoted showing that God has form.
        Can you quote equally from Vedas where it says that God has no form. Or is it that the God referred to in the Vedas does have form – a spiritual form which is different from our current perceptions of mundane limitations & qualities.

        For another point of view visit –

  • @patinsufi

    ur comments sound very touching but our arguments are with fanatic muslims who curse kafirs to hell and bleev that only islamic religion should be propagated even in non muslim countries. As long as we hindus are here, we will let no one defame our Vedas, Vedas are eternal knowledge and some tom dick or harry like zakir naik cannot understand them. So, we have to show him and his fanatic followers the truth and make them reject falsehood.

    • It seem a personal crusade where it will led to no end. It's just like a table tennis ball. The harder u throw d harder it rebound. If I were u, I'll concentrate on my personal quest to GOD. Develop your Chakra or Kundalini level, skillfully.(My apology if I mentioned wrongly)
      Once u reached the divine level, u'll see a bigger picture. Trust me, u won't regret it.

  • @Rashmi
    No person can become God and all actual gurus like Rishi Patanjali consider Eeshvar as guru of gurus of all times.

  • Vedas state that human being can realise God through Astanga yoga sadhana and following vedic path as stated in Sam veda. Nityananda Bhagwan has said in this regard as stated in Chidaksha Gita " What is visible is transient. It is perishable. When the mind is merged in "Bindu" and "Nada," Nirvikalpa Samadhi is attained. Our attention is then entirely towards Ananda (eternal joy). Fixing the attention between the eyebrows, the Prana should enter the holy Brahmarandhra. Here the light of lights becomes visible to the divine eye. This is Mukti. This is eternally supreme joy. This is the place where the Manas ought to dwell. This is the eternal being whence the Vedas have sprung. This is seeing Paramatman in all. This is the real place of Jivatman.". Chidaksha Gita is a collection of teachings of Bhagwaan Nityananda of ganeshpuri who took mahasamadhi in 1965. on God He has said " The real place of Jiva is formless, indivisible. God pervades all things movable and immovable. He is the ONE without a second. God is the origin of Vedas. He is the Lord of the body. He is the Lord of Jivanmukti. Man, to be man, must meditate upon God." , "The body is the cave. In this cave dwells the Atman. Atman, dwelling in the body, must attain "Moksha" (liberation). The outward bodily parts are various. In the invisible (subtle) all is one, indivisible. OM is Pranava. Pranava pervades the form (body) . OM is bodylessness and formlessness."
    Please read chidaksha gita at
    Further Swami Ramswarup ji of vedmandir in Vedas a Divine light Part – IV has written, Vedas are the Divine voice of God.
    All literature written by yogis who has achieved Nirvikalpa samadhi have stated same truth with experience as stated in vedas. The teachings of Sai baba of shirdi, Bhagewaan nityananda, gajanan maharaj, swami sammarth ramdas, Rammana maharishi, Paramhansa Yogananda – "Autobiography of yogi", Swami Ramswarup ji's tally with eternal knowledge of Vedas. India still has true men of God who have achieved nirvikalpa samadhi.

    The books Divine One, Chidaksha Gita;Patanjali Yoga Darshanam, Bhagwat Gita – ek Vedic Rahsya – I & II, Vedas – A Divine Light – I,II,III,IV( by swami Ramswarup based on his experience of achieving samadhi; world acclaimed Autobiography of yogi – Paramhansa yogananda,Swami samarth's biography, gajanan Mahraj's biography and Shirdi sai baba's sai charitra has cleared all my doubts on God.

    Further Bhagwan Nityananda has said " Paramatman is in Jivatman. The real Mukti is to know the subtle in the gross.""One who has thoroughly wiped off the idea "I am the body" is fit to be called a guru. There is none higher than such a one. There is no god above such a guru. Such a guru is God, and God is such a guru."

  • another excellent masterpiece,

    I will propagate this article and really hope to bring back home our indian, pakistani, brothers and sisters back to the Vedic Dharma. Besides, if truth is with us, we will sure meet success.