Argument 1: Two wrongs don’t make a right. If Babur destroyed a temple that does not mean you should destroy a mosque.
1. This argument started only in 2003, after Archaeological Survey of India provided definite proof of a temple under the Babri structure. Before this, the argument was that Babur never ever destroyed any temple! Babur was a saint before 2003.
2. This argument is normally given by those who have been ‘historically’ weak in aptitude – read ‘secular historians’ and ‘secular writers’ et al. Sometimes I feel that before arguing with such people, both sides should first give an aptitude test to assess minimum intellectual threshold. The reason is that this is one of the most flawed reason one can give to argue such points, and yet is persistently used by these ‘intellectuals’. Continue reading to know why.au
3. This argument ASSUMES a-priori that destruction of a monument of a pedophile rapist mass-murderer is wrong. But that is what we are arguing! Unless one can prove why it is wrong, how can you ASSUME it to be wrong to begin with!
4. Any person who has studied maths even till elementary level without cheating, would know that why two wrongs, any number of wrongs will only make wrong and never make a right. If you add several negative numbers, it will always yield a larger negative number. So there is nothing unique about this argument unless these ‘intellectuals’ have always faltered to choose where to ‘add’ and where to ‘multiply’!
5. Those who have studied maths till Class 12 have definitely studied mathematical induction. Its a simple logical concept which we shall apply here:
This is argument of secular intellectuals:
Event 1: ‘Babur destroyed a temple’ was wrong.
Event 2: ‘Babri symbol of shame was destroyed’ is also wrong.
The logic is that ‘Event 1 + Event 2’ don’t make a Right event. So Event 2 should not happen simply because Event 1 has already happened.
This is its extension as per induction:
Now fact is that even Event 2: ‘Babri symbol of shame was destroyed’ has also ALREADY happened.
So Event 3: ‘Criticism of Event 2 or destruction of Rama Lala temple’ is ALSO wrong by same logic!
Even if Event 2 was wrong, secular intellectuals should not condemn it because then they would be doing another wrong ‘Event 3’.
To extend it further, come what may happen as future events, they should never complain or oppose because Two Wrongs don’t make a Right!
In essence, what this logic means is that whatever has happened is bygone. One should never condemn it or criticize it because condemnation or criticism will not make it right.
So if I loot belongings of a ‘secular intellectual’, he should not retort or even complain. After all two wrongs don’t make a right! I loot again and again he should not retort. I keep looting and then ask my future generations to keep looting his future generations and continue doing so for 1000 years and still he should never complain!
In summary, if at all these ‘secular intellectuals’ believe in principle of ‘Two wrongs don’t make a right’, and believe certain events like destruction of Babri Masjid or demanding for destruction of other monuments built by dacoits to be wrong, they should simply always keep their mouths SHUT to honor their own argument! They flout their own logic by breaking their silence!
Argument 2: Babri monument had historical value because it was old. So destroying it was wrong.
1. If Babri monument had historical value because it was old, even the existing Ram Lala temple has at least some historical value. So even it should be preserved.
2. By this logic, every thing in past has an historical value. If I punch on face of such a historian, he should preserve the injury mark to maintain its historical value.
3. If the argument is that Babri Masjid being older has more historical value, then the temple beneath it has even more historical value. And hence from historical standpoint, Kar Sewaks did a great job!
4. By this logic monuments should also be built or those sites should also be declared heritage sites where Mumbai attacks happened (Taj, CST) and call them ‘Kasab Dhaam’. In fact all places where terrorist attacks have happened in history should be turned into heritage sites in name of those terrorists.
Argument 3: So many innocents were killed due to violence and riots after the destruction of Babri Masjid. How can one justify such an act then which caused death of so many innocents?
1. Another beauty of logical fallacy. Perhaps aptitude training should be compulsory from early childhood to prevent situations where responsible people lack this critical faculty. In this case, a deliberate cause-effect relationship is being created.
2. Riots happened because there was section of anti-nationals who considered a criminal like Babur as their role model and not because a structure was demolished in far-flung Ayodhya. And then it only shows the following:
a. Our security forces are ill-equipped to handle notorious gangs. Or perhaps there are insiders involved to immobilize security forces.
b. Our media and communication channels are irresponsible enough to not ensure that people do not defend a self-confessed criminal like Babur.
c. Our education system and policies are misguided to nurture supporters of criminals.
3. By this logic India should gift Kashmir to Pakistan because of the killings happening in the valley. They should create ULFA Land, Mao Land and all other lands to ensure innocents are not killed!
4. In brief, this is the logic of spineless devoid of moral standing. Because if this not be so, then it simply means ‘Jiski Laathi Uski Bhains’ – My buffalo because I have the stick! If I threaten to create disruption, then everyone should listen to me. And if someone else becomes even more threatening then he should be listened. This is only a recipe of Jungle Raaj not civilized living which is based on principles and not whims of few fanatics.
5. In any case, we do not defend any violence. Given the grip of political-media-fanatics mafia that we know today, definitely we would not have supported the destruction to happen and hence cause suffering to many innocents due to foolish mindsets of many key persons who tend to relate unrelated things to justify their passiveness. But that does not mean that destruction in itself was a reason for violence. It was only a scapegoat for violence.
6. Further, bygones are bygones. If Babur’s loots, rapes and destruction still merit his place on cover of history text books, why victimize Kar Sewaks!
7. If you say that destruction of an anti-Islamic mosque was the cause, I can give better reason that refusal of sickulars to accept that Babri Masjid was not a mosque was the actual cause leading to violence. A symbol of mockery of Islam created by a blot in name of Islam was defended as icon of Islam causing all this hatred and violence. So those who defend Babri Masjid in any manner are the actual instigators of violence and guilty in eyes of Islam. (Babur built this mosque in name of Babri – his homosexual lover. He also admits to killing huge number of innocents in his autobiography. Homosexuality and killing of innocents are grave crimes as per Islam)
So instead of condemning an unrelated event, condemn the actual violence. Let us proclaim that regardless of whatever event happened in past, those who harm innocents in any manner are offenders and must be dealt with iron hands.
Argument 4: But then it was mosque. How can you hurt sentiments of millions of Muslims?
1. If I name myself as Rashtrapati, I do not become President of India. Babri Masjid was only a namesake mosque. Since Babur was not a Muslim in first place (refer http://agniveer.com/1817/babri-masjid/) and even if he was, he was only worse than Ajmal Kasab or Osama Bin Laden (Babur killed more innocents than these terrorists by his own admissions. Refer the previous link), so any structure created by him is nothing more than a structure of national shame. To call such a structure a mosque is in fact an insult to all the nationalist Muslims of India and humanist Muslims across the world who believe only in peace and brotherhood.
2. Some may say that Muslims used to worship there and hence it was a mosque. This is even more frivolous logic. The Muslims who support worshipping in Babri Masjid could belong to two categories: first are those who do know about Babur. This is government’s failure to not been able to educate them about reality of Babur. The good Muslims would definitely hate to be associated with Babur once they know his disgusting reality.
The other category is those of miscreants. They are anti-nationals and should be dealt with iron hand. Tomorrow they may support financing a mosque in name of Osama Bin Laden or Nadir Shah or Mahmud Ghazni! Such fanatic perverts are fit to be in Somalia or Afghanistan but not in India.
3. Sentiments of ALL the nationalist and humanist Muslims would be elevated when they are dissociated from such terrorists like Babur. Already Kasabs and Osamas have done a lot of damage to pride and image of these good Muslims. They should now be relieved of being made scapegoats by associating them with every historical criminal of the world.
Argument 5: By your logic, then all structures created by Muslim rulers should be destroyed. Eye for eye only makes you blind.
1. Another example of foolish logic. Who is taking eye for eye here? Who is killing innocent Muslims or destroying their places of worships or looting their homes?
2. Structures created by Muslim rulers (they were namesake Muslims and not really Muslims by the way) fall in two categories:
a. Structures like Taj Mahal, Red Fort, Fatahpur Sikri, Jama Masjid etc which were actually old Indian structures that were captured by these terrorists from West Asia. These looters had nothing to do with art and architecture and they merely had Quranic verses inscribed on these structures to make them their own property and fool even fellow Muslims. All these structures should be rightfully proclaimed by their original names and any associations with criminals like Akbar, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb should be lawfully removed.
b. Structures like mosques at Kashi Vishwanath, Mathura and thousand of other temples which were created only to denigrate Hindus and destroy existing culture. I disagree completely that only Ram Mandir should be given or only Ayodhya, Mathura and Kashi should be restored. Because I believe that these structures are NOT Hindu-Muslim issue. There is nothing Hindu-Muslim about it. These are national issues and ALL these structures represent insult for our national sovereignty and independence.
More than Hindus, they are symbols of shame for Muslims because such structures club Muslims with misdeeds of these terrorist rulers who were political perverts and had little to do with seeking Ultimate.
Thus, in interest of national pride, ALL THESE STRUCTURES SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED. Agniveer is bound to put all efforts to reach that stage in future. And ideally it would have these structures peacefully destroyed by MUSLIMS to restore them the self-respect they deserve for being Indian and being Humans. There is no element of religion about it. And if your associate religion, it is the noble Muslims whose nationalism,peacefulness and dignity is offended by existence of such architectures of shame created by pervert anti-Islamic rulers that are wrongly hailed as having anything to do with Islam.
Argument 6: We should have a hospital built in Janmabhoomi area instead of temple or mosque.
1. I respect the sentiments but then hospitals can be built in a lot of other areas. Why only in Janmabhoomi. But yes, if hospital is best thing to be built here because it is more useful than a temple or mosque, then even mosques at Kashi Vishwanath, Mathura and other structures should also be destroyed and let us have hospitals everywhere.
2. I ask the naughty secularists who give this argument that how many of them would be willing to go into a rented place and convert their homes into a nursing home or a hospital? All people giving such free advice should first set such an example. Also would they justify replacement of all heritage places like Raj Ghat, Shanti Van, India Gate, Shakti Sthal etc also to be converted into hospitals so as to be more useful for society? Let them raise a national issue on these first and then discuss Janmabhoomi. After all these places are less ‘historical’ than site of Janmabhoomi as per oldness!
3. I personally believe the real Mandir or temple to be built at Janmabhoomi would be by converting this place into a center that would ensure that no Babur is able to cause such a destruction ever again in future. That would be the real Puja of the character of Ram. So:
a. A high-quality Vedic research center should be built there where scholars can research and bring out gems of Vedic wisdom in all fields of life for the world. This would go a long way to spread the religion of Shri Ram all across the world. And let us encourage participation of Muslims in this Vedic research center as students and researchers to showcase Muslims in proper light.
b. A high-quality Kshatriya training center to train our next generations in both Shaastra Vidya (Vedas) and Shastra Vidya (Self-defense) should be created to have a cadre of trained Kshatriyas to safeguard the nation, Dharma and society from present and future Baburs for ages to come. In short, let us ensure that true followers of Ram and Pujaks of Hanuman emerge from this Ram Mandir.
Argument 7: There is no way to prove that Ram was born here. Why then be fussy about a small piece of land?
1. Another red-herring. As I said, it is immaterial if Ram was born here or somewhere else. That would be impossible to prove because even archaeological evidences of that age is impossible to get. But the point is that there is no doubt that Babur was a terrorist much worse than Osama Bin Laden and that he created a structure in Ayodhya. Even if no temple would have been found below Babri Masjid erected in memory of Babur’s male sex-partner Babri, still the structure would have deserved being demolished.
2. It is no more a question of a piece of land. It is a question of self-respect for all Indians. Since Ayodhya is associated with Shri Ram, it would be greatest assertion of self-dignity if this structure by a sex-maniac terrorist is replaced by a monument dedicated to the greatest role-model for all Indians – Shri Ram – who was a symbol of compassion, bravery and character (the antithesis of Babur).
Argument 8: One should respect the judgment of the Court and not take law in hands.
1. While I agree that Courts should be complied with to maintain discipline in society, that does not mean that anything that court utters has to be RESPECTED. Respect cannot be enforced. One can FOLLOW what court says, but emotions like RESPECT and LOVE are simply beyond any coercion. So all one can do to earn RESPECT is to set right personal examples and systems. The efficiency, transparency and efficacy of judicial system alone can be determinants of RESPECT.
2. Courts are run by humans and there is no way to prove that only the most brilliant brains go into the legal profession. In fact if one sees the status of legal system in India, there are hardly other systems one can think of which has more inefficiencies. Further, going by the education system of India, it is unlikely that only the best brains have been choosing the legal profession. The reverse may be perhaps true. So to claim that judgment of court is the final word of human wisdom would be extremely naive. And that is exactly why there are so many levels of courts to minimize errors.
3. So for example stupid decisions like trying to unnecessarily push homosexuality down our throats for frivolous reasons, or justifying vulgar photos in newspapers because there is also a ‘children section’ just below the ‘Adult section’ to provide ‘Wholesome’ entertainment only provides glimpses of the thought-process of many of our judges. Shanti Bhushan just gave a list of 8 corrupt judges and no one dared to book him! All these suffice to show lacunae in our judicial legal system.
4. Courts keep overruling their own judgments. So while one should comply with court as a matter of discipline in larger society, that does not mean Court can be considered a right authority to teach us what is right and wrong. In fact, to my view, existing Court setup is not the right authority to deal with such sensitive and holistic issues.
5. And if Court be indeed the right authority, I fail to understand what prompted these ‘law-abiding’ forces to overrule Supreme Court in Shah Bano case?
6. The only right point in this argument is perhaps that one should not get into violence and harming innocent people in any situation. Beyond that, only Ishwar is the greatest judge and these human judges stand nowhere close to that Supreme Judge. Our lives should be governed by the inspiration of that Supreme Judge alone and no other human.
To summarize, sickular arguments on this issue are completely baseless. One also has to admit that even the supporters of Ayodhya Movement failed to rightly convey the true character of Babur among masses and unnecessarily led it to become a Hindu-Muslim issue. In reality, there is nothing Hindu-Muslim about this issue. Its a national issue for everyone alike. In fact a Babri masjid or a mosque at Mathura/ Kashi is much more demeaning to Muslims than Hindus because it brackets them with terrorists.
I do not know what the Court’s judgment would be on this issue. If it is in favor of destruction of Babri Masjid and construction of a center dedicated to Shri Ram, I welcome it. If it is not, all right-minded nationalist forces should unite together, bring all sections of population together, move forth towards consolidation of our votes, not be distracted by forces with ulterior motives, enter the parliament with thumping majority and then pave the way for destruction of all symbols of national shame by including nationalists from all religions and replacing them with centers of tolerance and humanism in a constitutional manner.
Krinvanto Vishwamaryam
(Lets make the world noble)
Disclaimer
This post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives. It also borrows for books on history, most of which are in public-domain.
We believe that most religious texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by some of his fanatic followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently. Some even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by many dominant elite of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.
Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.
Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false intolerant representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of the post.
Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.
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I would also like to bring in this case where the court ruled saying that it can’t interfere in the matter of religion and faith…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Calcutta_Quran_Petition
always its not just that only the minorities get to practice their religion…
You hit it on the head bro!
Excellent hbr,thanks for putting this.
Agniveer Ji,
Superbly articulated!
Hope this helps the fallacious sickularists reclaim their sanity
Excellent Agniveerji,
No problem with Babri demolition but there is no need for temple there. Instead money collected should be used for the improvement of our tribal brothers/sisters living in the tribal belt. Ram is our national hero and we need to follow into his footsteps instead of building temple on his name.
1000s of crores of rupees have been set aside in the budget by the central government. in the last 6-7 years so much thrust was on tribal development. what happened to those – the initiate taken and the money allotted? all that i can say is initiative was taken to siphon out the money allotted to tribals.
If Raam is used as a messenger of development, then tribals will come forward and demand their share without fear of anyone. Hence the Raam temple – the temple of development of the people of Mother India.
We need to adopt good things. This government in their second term is more interested in looting resources, misleading public on all issues that concern their daily living, most ineffective in tackling lawlessness and many more grave issues.
Thanks is a small word for your services to the Hindu cause. Your articles is essentially a balm to the wounds inflicted by Islam from 1400 years to this day.
I want to pray at the Ram Sannidhi in the Ayodhya Temple in the nearest future to my heart’s content
Yupp…For now,these efforts shall be useful…We are immensely hurt by these islamists and secularists…But soon,we would really need to awake from our state of passivity and enter the battle grounds with these abhramic demons.
ANOTHER DIRTY SECRET OF BABRI MASJID IS IT’S DOME IT IS SYMBOL OF BOOBS (IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THIS SEE THE IMAGE OF DOME OF BABRI MASJID IN GOOGLE THEN YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I MEAN) FOR EXTRA REFERENCE SEE THIS WEBSITE
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/42435
its true that it is shaped like a boobs, but islam is not the one to originate it. rather there cannot be any origination from islam. they are more concerned with other worldly matters which have no significance for a religious life – murder, loot, rape etc.
one need not waste time going to google to see how a masjid dome looks like. just visualise yourself. its pretty simple. but any amount of pointing out of this fact, a muslim will find it difficult to understand that.
its true these symbolism were used for good purposes in ancient times. it is said that they are used to draw out some kind of energy emitted elsewhere in the universe. but if used negatively, it will do immense damage. look at islam and one can see the effects of misuse of a device that they never cared to study carefully and use it for good purposes.
Archaeological excavations by the Archaeological Survey of India in 1970, 1992 and 2003 in and around the disputed site have indicated a large Hindu complex existed prior to the Babri structure.
islamic records themselves confirm that most of the mosques were built on the same foundations on which previously temples were there. In spite of all these hard truth staring at them, they still continue to deny these. a typical islamic habit.
BRILLIANT.It’s after a long time that i have read someone who has put up a defense of the Hindu society in such a logical,rational manner.
Thank You very much!
Agni Veerji,
Very nice story narrated, you should come up with some more fairy tales like this for the Kids, keep up the work.
& also have a suggestion, you should use all your creativity and talent for the development of the Poor people and uneduacted, i am sure you will succeed bring development to the nation’s growth, rather wasting your talent here.
Such a waste of talent.
@Abdul Raheem
Where is the story?
@Abdul Raheem bro,
Thank you for acknowledging that you have nothing substantial or logical to say against this article.
not that this is the first time you are doing so 😉
“A tower of infidels” skulls was erected on the hill on the northwest side of Chanderi” These are some of the gems from Baburnama. He despised everything in Hindustan except its abundant wealth which he looted, killed the infidels. His Commander/General destroyed the Grand temple of Lord Rama and built a mosque which now bears the name of aggressor and destroyer. There are people who hero worship all the looters, destroyers, killers. What else we can do but pity them. There are many in this land who have lost self esteem and have no place for Lord Rama in their heart but only for the likes of Babur. .
And That Happens ONLY in Semetic Religions – mainly Islam & Christianity.
Originally Babur himself belongs / born to a non-Islamic tribe called Barlas in Uzbekistan which was of Mongol origin, had embraced Turkish culture after converting to Islam.
Babur a Mongol (Mughal in Persian) was thrown away from his dynasty by his own blood related uncles. Then he crossed Hindu Kush Mountains in Afghanistan, captured Kabul and established his new kingdom. Unable to re-capture his own / original dynasty in Uzbekistan, he attacked on North India to spread his Mongol (Mughal) empire.
He never went back to his native / birth place Uzbekistan. As per his wishes, Babur was buried at Kabul, Afghanistan.
Surprisingly many cultural slaves in India feel proud to defend this foreign invaders blood stained glory and fight with their own nationals to protect the illegal monuments built by him.
It is a shameless act and I feel pity on such Indians, who feel justified in defending this barbaric foreign invader, who attacked and destroyed on our own / original culture by force / sword.
What i knew about the reaction of a typical dumb muslim that follows kuran rather than logic is proved by wht u just misused the internet for.
Why not stay out of intelligent articles and pray 20 times in a mosque?
Very wel defined.. very good job..
Well done!
Please visit voiceofdharma.org and read the posts by Koenraad Elst and others on the same subject.
The BMAC provided pitiable “evidence” and backed out when the logic and evidence provided was overwhelming and inescapable.
The all-pervasive, vindictive, spiteful and biased ELM backed by our Marxist “eminent historians” have twisted the logic repeatedly, because that is the ONLY thing they are good at.
How many Hindus have expressed such contrarian views without even knowing the basic sequence, or basic history, of events, especially because of the media blackout or misleading information?
Your logic will arouse overall curiosity and interest.
Best wishes!
Good Job,
It is a great reaserch.
We all should educate the people by spreading such a articles.
Long live RAM JANMABHOOMI,
Long live AYODHYA.
JAY SHREE RAM
Superb piece of Article….very well written…
Mughalistan (or Mughalstan) is the name of an independent homeland proposed for the Muslims of India. This Mughal-Muslim state in the Indian subcontinent will include all of North India and Eastern India, and will be formed by merging Pakistan and Bangladesh through a large corridor of land running across the Indo-Gangetic plain, the heartland of India. This Mughalistan corridor will comprise Muslim-majority areas of Northern India and eastern India that will be partitioned for the second time in history.
The comprehensive plan for a second partition of India was first developed by the Mughalstan Research Institute (MRI) of Jahangir Nagar University (Bangladesh) under the patronage of the two intelligence agencies, Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Bangladesh’s Director General of Forces Intelligence, DGFI. The “Mughalistan Reaserch Institute of Bangladesh” has released a map where a Muslim corridor named “Mughalistan” connects Pakistan and Bangladesh via India.
The Pakistani Punjabi-dominated ISI’s influence on MRI is evident even in the Punjabi-centric pronunciation of the word ‘Mughalstan’ (without the “i”), instead of the typical Urdu pronunciation (Mughalistan). Islamic Jihadis in India have been well-armed and well-funded by the neighbouring Islamic regimes, as part of Operation Topac – the late Pakistani President Zia-ul-Haq’s grandiose plot to balkanize India.
Not surprisingly, Osama Bin Laden has thrown his support behind the concept and creation of this Greater Pakistan to “liberate” the Muslims of India from the Hindus. The Mumbai underworld (led by Karachi-based don Dawood Ibrahim who executed the gruesome 1993 Mumbai bombings), Jamaat-e-Islami, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen have declared their unified support for creating this undivided Islamic nation in the Indian subcontinent. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) and Indian Mujahideen are working in tandem with the aforementioned organizations to waged Jihad against the Hindus of India.
It is important to note that in its “holy war” against India, the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba has openly declared Hindus to be the “enemies of Islam” who should all be converted or killed. The Lashkar-e-Tayyaba group has repeatedly claimed through its journals and websites that its main aim is to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism. Jaish-e-Mohammed has vowed to “liberate” not just Kashmir, but also to hoist the Islamic flag atop the historic Red Fort after capturing New Delhi and the rest of India.
SIMI has championed the “liberation of India through Islam” and aim to restore the supremacy of Islam through the resurrection of the Khilafat (Islamic Caliphate), emphasis on the Muslim Ummah (Islamic) and the waging of Jihad on the Indian state, secularism, democracy and nationalism – the basic keystones of the Indian Constitution – as these concepts are antithetical to Islam. The Indian Mujahideen have sent several emails claiming responsibility for several bombings in Lucknow, Varanasi and Faizabad (in Uttar Pradesh), Bangalore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and New Delhi in 2007 and 2008. The emails refer to notorious Islamic conquerors of India (Mohammed bin Qasim, Mohammad Ghauri and Mahmud Ghaznawi) as their role-models, refer to Hindu blood as “blood to be the cheapest of all mankind” and taunt Hindus that their “[Hindu] history is full of subjugation, humiliation, and insult [at the hands of Islamic conquerors]“.
The Indian Mujahideen’s emails warn the Hindus to “Accept Islam and save yourselves” and or else face a horrible fate: – “Hindus! O disbelieving faithless Indians! Haven’t you still realized that the falsehood of your 33 crore dirty mud idols and the blasphemy of your deaf, dumb, mute and naked idols of ram, krishna and hanuman are not at all going to save your necks, Insha-Allah, from being slaughtered by our [Muslim] hands?”
Based on the archaeological evidence presented before it, a team of historian comprising R.S.Sharma, M. Athar Ali, D.N. Jha and Suraj Bhan reached the following conclusions:
· There is no evidence to suggest that prior to the 16th century was there any veneration attached to Ayodhya as the birthplace of Ram.
· There is no evidence to support the theory that a Ram temple existed at the site where the Babri Masjid was built in 1528-29.
· The legend that the Babri Masjid occupied the site of Ram‚s birthplace did not arise until the late 18th century. The theory that a temple had been demolished to pave way for a mosque was first asserted in the 19th century.
The simple truth is that it is impossible to identify a particular site as the place where Ram was born. As for the question of faith, there is no evidence to suggest that a popular belief of a religious community suggested that Ram was born in Ayodhya.
Advani
And there is no proof that Muhammad ever lived! There are no proofs of his flying donkey and journey to Allah’s seventh heaven, no proof of splitting of moon, no proof of Adam and Eve, no proof of Quran to be word of God etc etc. There is no proof that Kaba was built by Abraham. So, hammer the Kaba down Mian Adwani! What are you waiting for?
By the way, enlighten us, who appointed this team of historians and what is its credibility?
wat about your soma juice, can u prove it coward, IM AGAIN CHALLENGING U FOR A DEBATE, accept it or admit the defeat , see how your hindus make fool of themselves http://truthofhinduism.com/general/vedas-are-not-eternal-a-detailed-analysis/comment-page-3/#comment-1411
yeah me
I questioned the existence of Muhammad and not your last prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani. Did you read the comment of Advani just above my comment? My comment was in response to him and not for Qadiyanis. Regarding debate, I have already started it by asking you, why did God create us, answer me and I will come to your Qadiyani cult!
i ll definately answer ur questions, but in truthofhinduism.com coz u cannot delete the comments there and they ll not delete the comments let everyone see your foolishness and u dont even know that qadiyanis does not reject hadiths, and just calling truthofhinduism team the qadiyanis, even if they are qadiyanis wast ur problem y r u scared to debate them
Please see the truth brother, Muhammad was a pedophile and he used to have sex with 6 year old kids. Is this what you want? To sell your 6 year old child to a pedophile. See if you want to do this then its okay, but not us. sorry.
lol, i know all ur tricks, i ve observed all ur tricks after i defeated u, u cannot defend anything and then u start abusing and insulting other religions. be a man and debate me.
http://truthofhinduism.com/general/vedas-are-not-eternal-a-detailed-analysis/comment-page-3/#comment-1411
i ll wait for ur comments
yeah me
Another question for you! Why is it necessary to believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani as your last prophet in addition to Allah in order to get Jannat? If you want to clear your stand on Muslim/Qadiyani again, please do it. Lets decide who you are, Qadiyani or Sunni or Shia or Wahabi or Bohra or…..
Do you believe in Sahih Ahadith? You previously told me that you dont consider Ahadith to be authentic. You can change your stand now. If you have to represent Islam anyway, you have to believe in Sahih Ahadith without doubt. If you dont, please dont call yourself a Muslim. This is as per Darul Uloom Deoband’s Fatwa. I always believed in Vedas and Vedas alone. My stand is firm. So if this debate has to be a Islam vs Vedic Dharm, it will be Vedas and Quran+Ahadith.
As far as the truthfulness of agniveer and truthofhinduism goes, all of your comments alleging Agniveer team for deletion of your comments still exist and thus are the biggest proof of Agniveer’s truthfulness. On the other hand, your truthofhinduism have made a story of some Mahant Dr. Saroop ji Maharaaj, who was an Arya Samaji and converted to Islam. Whole world knows that there are no Mahants and Maharajas in Arya Samaj! So you can compare yourself with Agniveer now.
As far as debate is concerned, I have another way! I shall write here and you give your comments on truthofhinduism. Lets start this debate. I have already asked you, why did God create us? And second, why is it necessary to believe in prophets (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, if you are Qadiyani, and Muhammad, if you are a Muslim) alongside Allah in order to get heaven?
I will not be able to comment till evening. Please give your reply on truthofhinduism and let me know where have you posted it. Hope to continue…
All the best brother!
You may be an atheist or an agnostic or you may belong to any of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may have been a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be— YOU STILL MUST KNOW THIS MAN!
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms, established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent his teachings, and he revolutionized the worlds of human thought and human action for all time.
His name was Muhammad (peace and blessings of Almighty Creator be upon him)—and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span of twenty-three years. Muhammad (pbuh) was born in Arabia in 570 CE, and when he died at the age of 63, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula had changes from paganism and idol worship to the worship of One God; from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion; from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place before or since.
The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him “the most successful of all religious personalities of the world.” Bernard Shaw said, “if Muhammad (pbuh) were alive today, he would succeed in solving all those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our times.” Thomas Carlysle was amazed as to how one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and Gandhi never tried of dreaming of a society along the lines established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time, as did Muhammad (pbuh). He was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father—all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these difficult departments of life.
The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures
The Prophet(pbuh)’s Mosque in Madinah is the second most revered place of worship for Muslims around the world. Millions of Muslims visit the Mosque each year, to worship, to visit the Prophet’s grave, and to see the city that gave birth to Islam. This pilgrimage is not mandatory as is the one to Makkah, but nevertheless popular. It is important to remember, however, that a visit to the Prophet’s grave is not in any way to worship or revere him, but to commemorate his role as God’s messenger, and to remind Muslims of his mortality and humanity.
The Prophet(pbuh)’s Mosque was the first institution to be built following Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)’s migration in 622 AD from Makkah, where he was born, to the town of Yathrib, which became known as Madinah. Surrounded as it was by the shops and stalls of all kinds of merchants, the new mosque soon became the political and economic as well as the spiritual nucleus of the city, and played both a practical and a symbolic role in unifying the citizens, ultimately providing a solid foundation from which the Prophet and his companions could set forth and establish the Islamic state.
According to history, the manner in which the Prophet(pbuh) decided on its location, was to let his camel loose, and choose the site where it finally stopped to rest. The entire Muslim community, both the residents of Yathrib and those who had migrated from Makkah with the Prophet(pbuh), participated in the construction of this first mosque, which was simply an open courtyard about 805 square meters in area surrounded by a wall made from bricks and tree trunks. On the eastern side apartments were built to house the Prophet(pbuh) and his family.
By 629 the Prophet(pbuh) had enlarged the area of the mosque to 2,475 square meters. Under the first four Caliphs, Madinah and the Mosque where the Prophet(pbuh) was buried continued to be the seat of government, reinforcing the synthesis of religion and governance in the Islamic state. The first two Caliphs, Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra), were buried next to the Prophet(pbuh) in the place that had originally been the Prophet(pbuh)’s home, and which today is covered by the famous green dome of the mosque.
From The 100, a ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart
My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.
Of humble origins, Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world’s great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive. The majority of the persons in this book had the advantage of being born and raised in centers of civilization, highly cultured or politically pivotal nations. Muhammad, however, was born in the year 570, in the city of Mecca, in southern Arabia, at that time a backward area of the world, far from the centers of trade, art, and learning. Orphaned at age six, he was reared in modest surroundings. Islamic tradition tells us that he was illiterate. His economic position improved when, at age twenty-five, he married a wealthy widow. Nevertheless, as he approached forty, there was little outward indication that he was a remarkable person. Most Arabs at that time were pagans, who believed in many gods. There were, however, in Mecca, a small number of Jews and Christians; it was from them no doubt that Muhammad first learned of a single, omnipotent God who ruled the entire universe.
When he was forty years old, Muhammad became convinced that this one true God (Allah) was speaking to him, and had chosen him to spread the true faith. For three years, Muhammad preached only to close friends and associates. Then, about 613, he began preaching in public. As he slowly gained converts, the Meccan authorities came to consider him a dangerous nuisance. In 622, fearing for his safety, Muhammad fled to Medina (a city some 200 miles north of Mecca), where he had been offered a position of considerable political power. This flight, called the Hegira, was the turning point of the Prophet’s life. In Mecca, he had had few followers. In Medina, he had many more, and he soon acquired an influence that made him a virtual dictator. During the next few years, while Muhammad s following grew rapidly, a series of battles were fought between Medina and Mecca. This was ended in 630 with Muhammad’s triumphant return to Mecca as conqueror. The remaining two and one-half years of his life witnessed the rapid conversion of the Arab tribes to the new religion. When Muhammad died, in 632, he was the effective ruler of all of southern Arabia. The Bedouin tribesmen of Arabia had a reputation as fierce warriors. But their number was small; and plagued by disunity and internecine warfare, they had been no match for the larger armies of the kingdoms in the settled agricultural areas to the north. However, unified by Muhammad for the first time in history, and inspired by their fervent belief in the one true God, these small Arab armies now embarked upon one of the most astonishing series of conquests in human history. To the northeast of Arabia lay the large Neo-Persian Empire of the Sassanids; to the northwest lay the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, centered in Constantinople. Numerically, the Arabs were no match for their opponents. On the field of battle, though, the inspired Arabs rapidly conquered all of Mesopotamia, Syria, and Palestine. By 642, Egypt had been wrested from the Byzantine Empire, while the Persian armies had been crushed at the key battles of Qadisiya in 637, and Nehavend in 642.
But even these enormous conquests-which were made under the leadership of Muhammad’s close friends and immediate successors, Abu Bakr and ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab -did not mark the end of the Arab advance. By 711, the Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean There they turned north and, crossing the Strait of Gibraltar, overwhelmed the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. For a while, it must have seemed that the Moslems would overwhelm all of Christian Europe. However, in 732, at the famous Battle of Tours, a Moslem army, which had advanced into the center of France, was at last defeated by the Franks. Nevertheless, in a scant century of fighting, these Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean-the largest empire that the world had yet seen. And everywhere that the armies conquered, large-scale conversion to the new faith eventually followed. Now, not all of these conquests proved permanent. The Persians, though they have remained faithful to the religion of the Prophet, have since regained their independence from the Arabs. And in Spain, more than seven centuries of warfare finally resulted in the Christians reconquering the entire peninsula. However, Mesopotamia and Egypt, the two cradles of ancient civilization, have remained Arab, as has the entire coast of North Africa. The new religion, of course, continued to spread, in the intervening centuries, far beyond the borders of the original Moslem conquests. Currently it has tens of millions of adherents in Africa and Central Asia and even more in Pakistan and northern India, and in Indonesia. In Indonesia, the new faith has been a unifying factor. In the Indian subcontinent, however, the conflict between Moslems and Hindus is still a major obstacle to unity.
How, then, is one to assess the overall impact of Muhammad on human history? Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world’s great religions all figure prominently in this book . Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad’s insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad’s lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad’s ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammed through the medium of the Koran has been enormous It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. On the purely religious level, then, it seems likely that Muhammad has been as influential in human history as Jesus. Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. Of many important historical events, one might say that they were inevitable and would have occurred even without the particular political leader who guided them. For example, the South American colonies would probably have won their independence from Spain even if Simon Bolivar had never lived. But this cannot be said of the Arab conquests. Nothing similar had occurred before Muhammad, and there is no reason to believe that the conquests would have been achieved without him. The only comparable conquests in human history are those of the Mongols in the thirteenth century, which were primarily due to the influence of Genghis Khan. These conquests, however, though more extensive than those of the Arabs, did not prove permanent, and today the only areas occupied by the Mongols are those that they held prior to the time of Genghis Khan. It is far different with the conquests of the Arabs. From Iraq to Morocco, there extends a whole chain of Arab nations united not merely by their faith in Islam, but also by their Arabic language, history, and culture. The centrality of the Koran in the Moslem religion and the fact that it is written in Arabic have probably prevented the Arab language from breaking up into mutually unintelligible dialects, which might otherwise have occurred in the intervening thirteen centuries. Differences and divisions between these Arab states exist, of course, and they are considerable, but the partial disunity should not blind us to the important elements of unity that have continued to exist. For instance, neither Iran nor Indonesia, both oil-producing states and both Islamic in religion, joined in the oil embargo of the winter of 1973-74. It is no coincidence that all of the Arab states, and only the Arab states, participated in the embargo. We see, then, that the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.
Jai Sri Ram. Muhammad ka ho gaya kaam tamaam
anyone interested in knowing about the complete / real mohamMAD, please indicate your emails.
He was affested by TLE (temporal lobe epilepsy) or mirgi, having fantacies.
he was a highway robber,
he was a mass murderer,
he was a rapist,
he was a sex maniac having sex with most of the women he saw,
he was a pedophile.
he was a megalomaniac & narsicist.
he was a pathological liar and invented ayas to suit his fanciful thoughts.
Wow – I thought Hindus would be a little bit careful about spreading falsehoods about Muhammad. How many times do your religious texts mention having sex or gangraping mothers and sisters?
Well Tony you our nay of us can not change the fact..
How do you expect peace & brotherhood from a religion which is base dis on violence & hatred???
well said..
to mr 3x
well said about muhaaMAD
ABB TO INSAAN KO INSAAN BANAAYA JAAYE, NA KOYEE AUR BHAGWAAN BANAAYA JAAYE.
Raja Bhoja organized his armies to attack Mahmud Ghaznavi who had invaded Somnath. Ghaznavi fearing the powerful army of Bhoja retreated via the desert of Sindh to avoid a clash (reported by Turkic author Gardizi as Hindu padishaw Parmar Dev) with the Hindu king and lost many of his men. Bhoja repulsed the Ghaznavid Masu’d who lead a huge army into India to attack the rich inner cities which his father had failed to raid. Then Bhoja realizing the threat from Islam, organized a confedration of Hindu kings including the Kalachuri Lakshmi-Karna, the Chahamana and other Rajputs to fight the Ghaznavid Maliq Salar Masud. In the great [battle of Bahraich] the Hindu confedracy fought a pitched battle for about a month with the Moslems and completely defeated them killing, Salar Masud in the process. They then went on to liberate Hansi, Thaneshvar, Nagarkot and other cities taken by the Ghaznavids and marched against Lahore and besieged it. Just at the point Lahore was about to fall to them, the Hindu kings had a disagreement over who would own the captured territories and their armies disbanded and dispersed in a huff. Bhoja started fighting his erstwhile allies in the war against the Moslems.
I thought Hindus would be a little bit careful about spreading falsehoods about Muhammad. How many times do your religious texts mention having sex or gangraping mothers and sisters?
@Tony
are you talking about Adam & Eve OR the prophet and his daughter-in-law Zainab
you silly ..they were not Hindus 😉
Shall we also bring back the immolation of wives when their husbands die?
why wait sir ..let me start with a historical example
Kaushalya , the mother of Rama never committed Sati and much later even Kunti , the mother of Pandavas did not commit sati.
may be we have to move a bit more forward ..maybe the time when devout ghazis invaded India for it’s wealth,women and child slaves ..and there you have it ..the reason for sati
❮Khaza’inul Futh of Amir Khusrau
“In a single campaign Rantambhor was conquered, and by the decree of Providence the land of infidelity became the land of Islam.”
“After the nauruz, the Sun of Justice (the Sul?an) shone full on the Rantambhor hill and every day its heat and light increased, * till finally the lofty fort, which drew its water-supply from the azure sky, became a desert from lack of vegetation and water. The world seemed smaller to the Rai (of Rantambhor) than the prison within a rose-bud. So in his desperation one night he lighted a high fire, which rose like a mountain-tulip on the hill, and threw into it the rosy-coloured young maidens, who had grown up in his arms. After he had personally despatched to hell these deserving inmates of paradise, he came to the head of the pa shib with one or two other unbelievers, bent on sacrificing his life with honour.❯
shall we thank Islam for this gift to India together ?
I just wanted to know if Hindu’s staying in Pakistan & Bangladesh have similar rights or not? Can they go to the court of law and demand as a right to rebuild temples that were destroyed in the respective countries? Even if they can, would they be allowed to live? On the contrary, more than a dozen temples have been destroyed since the Babri Masjid demolition. Now a more then 68 years old Shamsan Ghat temple(where last rites of Hindu, Sikhs & more are performed) is being demolished in Pakistan.
Now as a hypothetical case lets assume all the above was possible i.e. it was officially possible to raise voice against the demolition of a temple, the big question, would the decision be what its going to be in the Indian court of law? (As we all understand Congress’s vote-bank politics we all know that the Congress Party will ensure that the decision goes in favor of the muslims)
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/national/general/5_1_6769410.html
Here are many proofs that ayodhya was always the birth place of Lord Shri Ram.
SICKULAR MEDIA the ENEMIES OF HINDUS like Times of India, NDTV and magazines like Outlook, Frontline, are spewing venom against the court verdict (which was fair) now they are saying that this Judgment was based on Faith, even when there is enough evidence that Babri Masjid was built on Temple that itself gives us right to built Temple. This same media kept quiet when in SHAH BANO CASE JUDGMENT was made based on FAITH. The MUSLIM LEAGUE OF INDIA (CONGRESS) HAPPILY BROKE THE BACK OF INDIAN CONSTITUTION AND GAVE THE VERDICT IN FAVOR OF MUSLIMS. IN RETURN MUSLIM LEAGUE OF INDIA (CONGRESS) DUPED HINDUS THAT RAM MANDIR WILL BE ALLOWED TO BE BUILT BY HINDUS BUT NOW RAHUL FEROZ GANDHI AND SONIA FEROZ GANDHI ARE IN NO MOOD IN FULFILLING THEIR FATHER AND HUSBAND PROMISE THAT ONLY SHOW THEIR SINCERITY TOWARDS INDIA AND HINDUS.
Brother Sameer
If you rationally analyze the overnight changed stand of the sickular media , you’ll find that this renewed effort from their side was but inevitable
The sickulars are tied together – sickular historians, sickular media persons and sickular politicians..The court verdict based on authenticated nad reauthenticated ASI findings has been a tight slap on the face of pseudo historians
Can’t you see they are panicking now ..doesn’t the common man know that this media which was shouting from the rooftops that the highcourt verdict should be accepted by all parties changed it’s stand in 15 MINUTES flat as soon as the judgment was pronounced much to their dismay in the favor of the Hindus
Don’t you take it on you brother ..they are doing all this to save their blackened faces …the media babblers, the disgraced historians and the opportunist sickular politicians had no other choice ..they have been caught with their pants down ..let them rant
On the contrary ..let them again pump up the music …i know for sure that the SC will uphold the verdict ..and it would be another slap on their dishonest sold out faces
Babri Lovers, read this too.
Deoband Madarse ko Kashmiriyon se pyaar-Ram janambhoomi se nakar by Muzaffar Hussain
http://www.vaartha.com/pdf_files/92483.pdf
Oh dear, how did Sri Ram reach little Sweden?
http://www.goteborg.com/en/Do/s/EventGuide/View/Parks_Gardens-View_points/Ramberget_5283/
Berg in Swedish translates to mountain; hill or rock.
🙂
+
the suffix -et in Swedish just signifies the word ‘berg’ in definitive form.
Berg (a mountain; hill or rock)
Berget (the mountain; hill or rock)
babri masjid demolition is national pride since babri masjid was symbol of slavery.the people who call it national shame are those who are non indian who put fatwa on vande mataram who supports kashmir sepretists or support maoists who are real threats to national secularism.Rama is the culture of india then there should be a home at his place ayodhya so wrong in demolition infact this movt should be included in text.We all know that most of masjid in india was built by demolition of temple bt we never demolished it infact we hav asked 3 holy place if muslim brothers are real indian then give 3 temples to us then our secularism will prevail for ever.There will be brotherwood b/w us
[…] Ram Mandir, there is no Vijay for me. I do perform Shastra Puja and ask for strength. To take Ram Mandir back […]