According to the Vedas(based on whatever I have read on Agniveer’s website) or Buddhism (which I practice) or the theory of karma, whatever is happening in the society – justice or injustice – whatever is happening with me, you or Agniveer or anyone, must be happening for a reason, must be happening as a result of their karma. (So what is the need of all this work?)

Agniveer :
This is partially true. The major fault in this argument is that it neglects the power of performing the very ‘Karma’ in present in the Theory of Karma model. This line of argument assumes that your past is completely disjoint from the present and that the past was some time t and the present is some time (t + delta t). And now whatever is happening at instant (t + delta t) is completely because of the Karma of instant t. Now problem with this is you leave no scope of performing any new actions at instant (t + delta t) which can alter the outcomes in the very next moment (t + delta t + epsilon t). And as you will now see that by this logic, even no Karma was performed at point t. Because t is a general point on an infinite continuum of time. If (t + delta t) is only there to give you fruits of actions performed at (t), (t) must have been there to give you fruits of some actions performed at (t – delta t) and so on. Agniveer.

So in this theory, you choose any t and you will see no Karma/action performed at all. As all ts are just there to have fruits of some t-delta t.

So actually, there was no Karma performed at all as per this theory of Karma! Hence this is the faulty understanding.

In reality, as per theory of Karma, at any instant t, there are always two continuums – one for action, other for fruits. At any instant t, you always have some freedom of performing new actions F and some restrictions to have fruits of earlier Karma/actions 1-F. If you have done good Karma (good/bad can be debated separately, but here, I mean those actions with good which result in net positive effect on maximum lives) in past, F value will be higher and the restrictions on you due to past deeds 1-F will be smaller. When you keep doing good for long, your enlightenment keeps increasing and F approaches 1. This state is called as Mukti/salvation. Agniveer.

On the other hand, if you perform bad actions, F value decreases and 1-F value increases. There are levels of bondages caused by these high levels of 1-F values. That is why you see many species with different levels of freedom. Even in humans, you find people with different capabilities and freedoms.

So whenever you apply the law of fruits at any instant t, you must also apply law of Karma at t which both work in tandem. Agniveer.

Agniveer must have taken birth only to do what he is doing and that is why whatever happened with him must have happened. Whoever is killing in the name of religion, they are killing because they are living in the world of hell/animality. They must also be facing the suffering of their karma which must be making them behave the way they behave. Doesn’t everyone have to suffer what they are meant to suffer? Doesn’t everyone have to suffer the consequences of their karma? Everyone has a unique mission in their life, everyone’s birth is meant for some purpose – shouldn’t that be true for people who perpetrate violence too ? I am sure they are suffering as well.

Agniveer :
Very simplistic model. But life is more complex! Just try to apply this argument in a different scenario.

Our mother is hungry. She needs food. Do we ever think that she must be hungry because of her past bad Karmas and thus she is suffering or rather she must suffer? Because if I give her food, it might violate the law of Karma this nature would have meant for her? Do we do this? No. Here is why. Agniveer.

When someone is hungry, we see sudden urge to help them. Her hunger is the fruit of her past deeds, true. But giving food to her is the Karma of ours. IF we stop our Karma, we violate the law of Karma, which is – the continuums of Karma and fruits must go parallel.

IF we see someone in hunger, it is our duty to feed them (unless she is potential danger to the people around). Not because you will give fruits of HER past deeds. But because you must perform YOUR Karma at present. You only have 2 choices. Ignore the hungry. This is also a Karma. And this is sin. 2nd, you can give her food which will make her happy. Which is good Karma. So when you only have choice b/w good and bad, you must choose good. Agniveer.

Now question comes, what if she really deserves to be hungry as per her past Karmas? Answer is, if you know any of her Karmas which makes her a demon or a terrorist, you must act accordingly. You must not feed a terrorist. But if she has not performed such actions in your knowledge, you must give her food. IF she is really that devil because of her actions of her past lives, Law of Karma will take care of it. Like even if you give her food, she won’t be able to digest. Or she might vomit. Or she might be suffering from disease. Or she might meet an accident and so on… So you don’t have to stop feeding the hungry because you fear violation of law of Karma. Latter has its own ways to rule. You don’t have to leave your humanity for it. Agniveer.

Nobody comes in the world with purpose. Every soul comes only with two continuums of Karma and Fruits. Ultimate purpose of every soul is to maximise F value and attain salvation. If someone denies it, he/she is lying. Freedom is happiness. Ultimate freedom is ultimate happiness.

Terrorists use F value to harm others. This is not a purpose. This is perversion. And it must be crushed ruthlessly. Just imagine a terrorist slitting someone’s throat in front of you.
Would you console yourself with this theory that he has some purpose? Even if it is, ours must be to crush the pig along with his purpose because again we have two choices – ignore or act. 1st is sin. 2nd is Purushaartha/good Karma. We must do 2nd. Agniveer.

Some people say, purpose is purpose, there is nothing right or wrong, They must be reminded that purpose of any law is always to maintain order. You don’t need laws for bad things. They will just happen. But you need laws for good. For orderliness. For justice. Hence the purpose of Law of Karma has to be a good one.

Maybe I don’t yet completely understand Agniveer’s movement and mission to speak up against a particular religion – or maybe I just understand it in theory but don’t feel it yet and some day I will, but whatever the case, if religions are being misinterpreted, if there is violence and hatred – then that must be karma too, that must be happening for some reason.

Agniveer :
Now if we agree that feeding our hungry mother is necessary as per law of Karma, we will also agree that stopping violence and saving millions of mothers across the globe is million times more necessary. Yes, they are exercising Karma when they rape Yezidi mothers in front of their infants. Yes, they are exercising Karma while waving heads of innocents on spears. They are exercising Karma while beating wives in name of holy book 4/34.

They exercise Karma while reciting holy book 9/5 while chopping idol worshippers’ heads off. They exercised Karma while slaughtering millions in Mughal’s rule, partition of India and ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir. They exercise Karma while enjoying Sharia law in India when a man marries 4 women, kicks wife out of home and marriage with a single SMS saying Talaq Talaq Talaq and snatching kids from her and so on… Question is, if it is their Karma, what is ours? Are we here to just be witnesses to these pigs or make them realise how Karma of pigs are punished? How innocent women are liberated? How mothers are reunited with their lost kids? Agniveer.

We need to show them, good is always above bad. And this alone should be the Karma of noble people.

My only point was that to show the superiority of something, we need not point out the inferiority of something else.

Agniveer :
Of course we have to. If a rapist is threatening our mother at knife-point, I need to show him his real place. The pig has to be crushed under boots. Book that says women of Kafirs are meant to be our slaves (4/2,3, 33/50) needs to be shown the garbage bin. Good is superior to bad. And it always will be. This needs to be reaffirmed again and again through our thoughts, words and actions.

But isnt it possible that just the way Agniveer is translating the Vedas, the Bhagvad Gita and delivering their true message, there might be some true message in those religions as well but just that there is no one of wisdom to translate those messages?

Agniveer :
Religion that says women of others are meant to be slaves can not be the true message. Religion that has enslaved crores is a curse. Shame on those who believe in it. Check the verses I quoted. Just google them. Agniveer puts Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc in very high esteem because of their liberal and liberating message. But searching for truth in books of rapists is a waste of time. Agniveer.

Tolerance is best thing to have for those who believe in same. It is worst thing for those who don’t.

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  • Good explanation, but, my observation about fruits of karma is, good karma fruit cannot cancel out bad karma fruit. Both have to be experienced separately(principle of KP astrology).
    E.g A person X kills another person Y. So person X will now face the fruits of that killing in some future birth. But now this person X does many many good karmas. So finally god decides to forgive X. On this the person Y gets angry and cries injustice. So god won’t forgive X.

    Thus thus can get very complex.
    Would like to read your reply on this.

  • Very nice theorem, I like your style Vashi, however in the first sentences you reveal that you are a Buddhist, and that’s interesting.

    I developed different mathematical models for the whole of Hinduism, especially the authentic Sanathan Dharma and also technocratic abstractions. It is totally different than the white men’s views on the black hinduism of ancient India, Aryawart, place WHERE the gods came for vacations.

    Delft city, Holland