Kiss of Love or Call of Duty?

There is a new movement in rage these days. They call it Kiss of Love. I am told that some news-channel (owned by Indian National Congress – the political party that was ruthlessly evicted out of power in recent national elections) showed video clips of some people who ‘vandalized’ a cafe in Kerala where people were hugging, kissing or doing something else. The Kerala Police also was supposedly against the kissers, huggers and ‘something else doers’ and sided with the ‘vandals’.

Struggle for Fundamental (Hormonal) Rights begins!

So the “oppressed” decided “enough is enough”. How long can they suppress their natural urge to kiss, hug, undress, excrete or do something else in public? After all, who can refute that these are the strongest urges known to humankind? (Yes, we will ignore non-hormonal urge of hunger among poor and urge for selfless sacrifices among legends because only “Sangh Pariwar” hypes about them!)

Inspiration from Karl Marx was easy to borrow for these ‘hormonally oppressed’ ones because Kerala is among the rare endangered habitats where communism still survives on earth. The proletariats thus decided to stand up and launch a protest movement to claim their most fundamental rights.

Even a dog on the street also has the right to roam without clothes, or excrete as per will, or do “something more” driven by hormones. Then who are some official and unofficial ‘moral policeman’ to prevent “humans” – the most privileged creation of nature – from exercising the most innate right of every organism?

The rebels finally got an ‘apparition’ cause to fight for! That itself is a big achievement in a world where incentives to be a famed ‘rebel without cause’ is pretty high. After all, this is the era of innumerable 24 hours TV Channels hungry for high TRP items, a brutally battered ex-ruling party desperate for revenge and potential of any post of yours to get viral to make you an overnight celebrity.

This cause of standing for ‘fundamental (hormonal) rights’ was truly destined for success. They were rebelling for those urges that drive billions of dollars of revenue for companies. Right from deodorant ads to cheer-leaders in IPL, the popularity index of the cause is well obvious. If I were a profit-seeking TV Channel or Newspaper editor, I would see immense TRP in covering this cause. We are so eagerly yearning for some fresh news-masala as there is enough of “Modi Modi” for more than a year now. And no one takes Kejriwal seriously or Shehzaade jokingly anymore.

Search for enemy begins

– The next step was a big challenge – whom do we rebel against? This is where the real dark humor began. Since the protest was triggered by those who lost deposits in recent elections, they decided to target the Prime Minister of the new party in power. And since the new Prime Minister is proud of his roots in Sangh Pariwar, the choice of the enemy became simple.

– The “revolutionaries” declared that Sangh Pariwar is the real culprit. It didn’t matter that Kerala is still ruled by Congress and Sangh Pariwar has negligible political clout in the state. It also did not matter that real “culprits” – if at all – were Kerala Police who took a clear stand against allowing same previleges to humans that even dogs have.

– It also does not matter that none of the protestors even know what comprises Sangh Pariwar. Who cares! For them, everyone who respects Indian culture, is proud to be Hindu, considers Ram to be a role model and Babur to be an invading terrorist is Sangh Pariwar or Saffron Terrorist or a Moral Policeman or a Gunda.

– So they decided to launch an all-India protest against this Sangh Pariwar. They protested in front of RSS Headquarters in Delhi and host of other places. They booed the Prime Minister for his RSS roots. They presented a picture that there is a Sangh Pariwar comprising a variety of organizations led by RSS who want to unleash a reign of terror in name of moral policing. These medievalistic RSS goons are the cause of all the tortures and rapes and gender-abuse and violation of human rights that happen in India. These are the real threats to progress of India and freedom of individuals in the country.

– This is where we stand today. Rebels have identified the cause and created the enemy. The fight has begun. The desperate ones are finally getting an opportunity that they were deprived of for long. To give a “Kiss of Death” to Sangh Pariwar “terrorists”! And satisfy hormonal urge in the process.

The protests continue.

The debates and arguments and fights between the “Kiss Lovers” and “Sangh Lovers” intensify.

The dark humor goes on.

But hereafter humor gets lesser and lesser. Darkness gets deeper and deeper.

And when one reviews this pseudo-rebellion in context of the bigger picture of challenges we face as a nation and humanity today, ‘dark humor’ turns out to be an extremely ‘cruel irony’.

Kiss of Love is trampling the Call of Duty.

Let me make very clear. I am no way in favor of or against any moral policing. I simply don’t care what one does or does not do in public or private. I don’t have the spare time to analyze what others are doing and pass judgment on the same. I am too busy justifying my own existence. The probability of having born as a human and an Indian is next to zero in this vast universe. So I better focus fully on making the best of the rare opportunity I have got!

I am neither in favor of nor against ‘Kiss of Love’ or ‘Discharge of Urge’ or anything else that people should or should not do in public. I simply don’t care.

But yes, I do care about my nation and humanity. I care about them more than anything else. And hence I do feel compelled to express my anguish at this colossal waste of youthful energy in an irrationally conceived misguided pseudo-rebellion against a non-existent enemy. Especially when the imminent need of hour is to stand against the real dangerous enemy troubling my country and planet.

Let me add details to explain out why this movement is painfully irrational and colossal waste.

The fake enemy

– The enemy identified is Sangh Pariwar. I have had close associations with Sangh Pariwar. The best I can say about Sangh Pariwar is that they are the victims rather than culprits.

– Yes, Sangh Pariwar has a stand on this issue. It believes that human-rights and dog-rights need not necessarily be same. Dogs are not bound by duties unlike humans, have a different physiology and hence need not be equated with humans in matters of rights and duties. Yes, I fully concur with them. One may choose to agree or disagree with us, but we too possess the fundamental right of have their own opinion. And one must respect difference of opinion.

– I have never seen Sangh Pariwar to showcase any intention to forcibly push down their ideology down anyone’s throat. I never saw any statement issuing from Jhandewalan (RSS Headquarters) urging people to take law in hands to enforce the Sangh ideology. Yes, they write about it, speak about it as they do on many other issues. But since when did freedom of expression became a crime?

– And why Sangh Pariwar? Overwhelming majority of Indians believe exactly in same principles that Sangh Pariwar believes in. That is why (thankfully) dogs and humans behave dissimilarly on Indian streets in this aspect. One can, by all means, debate and argue whether majority is right or wrong on this issue. But it would be intolerant and foolish to term the entire India as bunch of goons just because they follow certain code of conduct which don’t comply with any kisser’s hormonal needs.

– All that Sangh Pariwar is good in is peaceful humanitarian activities. The Sangh Pariwar mascot of today – Prime Minister Narendra Modi – initiates cleanliness drive in name of Mahatma Gandhi. They are among the first ones to offer voluntary service whenever any manmade or natural disaster hits the nation. They don’t even conduct any propaganda about themselves. I bet, 99% of “Sangh Haters” don’t even know about 99% of activities of Sangh Pariwar. In my mind, Sangh Pariwar is the worst victim of prejudice in this nation. They silently do majority of humanitarian work in India today and yet painted as inhuman by kissers and spitters.

– One may argue that some individuals alleging alliance to Sangh Pariwar indulge in vandalism. Hence Sangh Pariwar is to be blamed. This argument is height of irrationality. The same individuals are also from Kerala (refer to vandalism that happened in Kerala), they are also males, they owe allegience to India. Do we start protesting against all males in Kerala? Or against all Indians? You could protest against Sangh Pariwar if Sangh Pariwar officially endorsed any acts of vandalism. But on contrary Sangh Pariwar has always maintained that they believe in democratic ways and do not support any vandalism. Why then create a fake enemy out of nowhere and start a match of shadow-boxing? Does it not amount to vandalism to go in front of home of peaceful people and deliberately conduct acts which offend their sentiments? Why not simply respect difference of opinion? And what about host of other organizations that concur with Sangh Pariwar on this issue? Why no protest against them?

– If one has to protest, protest against the actual people who performed acts of vandalism. File police case against them. Pressurize police to search them out and take action. Stand against the government machinery if justice is not served. There are innumerable ways in democracy to ensure justice without taking law in hand. Sangh Pariwar neither runs the government in Kerala nor has supported any act of vandalism. Then why create an enemy from nowhere?

– Doing certain acts in public are prohibited as per Indian Penal Code. The Sangh Pariwar did not create the Penal Code. If one has to fight, fight against the law and its interpretation. Why bring Sangh into picture!

– The government in center today has MPs from all walks of lives – including films and entertainment. If Sangh Pariwar was so fanatically against “Kiss of Love”, why would it allow the government to have such members? The reason is foundation of Indian culture – that there would always be difference in opinions among people. But that should not deter us to respect the differences and unite for common good cause. Sangh has its opinion on the subject. You have yours. I have mine. Argue, debate if you want to. But why carve a villain out of your opponent?

Where does it end?

Just introspect – where would these madness end? Today there is a movement to allow kissing. Tomorrow the demonstrations would be to roam naked in public. Then perhaps demonstrate more intimate acts of passion in public. Then excrete and do innumerable other stupid things. What purpose does it solve? Where do you draw a line? Typically each society draws an unwritten line depending upon its social and cultural context. These automatically evolve from time to time. Our dressing has changed over years, our food has changed, our approach to life has changed – and no protest movement was ever needed. Are we so deprived of relevant issues or have solved all our other issues to completion that we now find such imaginary causes against non-existent enemies to keep ourselves busy? Or do we consider ourselves to be so useless and idle that we can think of nothing better to do?

The Indian culture argument

The Sangh lovers and overwhelming majority of Indians claim that public display of certain emotions is against Indian culture. The Kiss lovers counter-argue that Kamasutra forms the bedrock of Indian culture. When one can kiss and undress in US and Europe, why not in India whose culture lies in nudity and kissing and “something more”?

The debate gets as stupid as it can get when people who have not flipped a single page of Indian cultural heritage ever suddenly become “culture champions” because they can’t resist the flow of hormones!

First of all, Kamasutra has never been considered a cultural or spiritual text ever in India. Before Francis Burton wrote a translation of Kamasutra in 1883, rarely anybody even knew of existence of the book. Every other gurukul of India teaches Vedas and Upanishads. Every other Indian household has a copy of Ramayan. But I am yet to find Kamasutra being taught or kept, except in drawing rooms of “Kiss Lovers”! I hear chants of Ramayan, Hanuman Chalisa, Gita, Vishnu Sahsranam and hundreds of other texts. But am yet to find anyone chanting Kamasutra in any household or temple of India. To claim Kamasutra to be bedrock of Indian culture because it is written in Sanskrit is as foolish as claiming Ghalib’s poems to be basis of Islam because it is written in Urdu or “Lady Chatterley’s Lovers” as foundation of Christianity because it is written in English!!

Secondly, India is India. It is neither US nor Europe nor Afghanistan. It has its own unique cultural ways driven by spiritualism. Respect them if you can. Indeed it is extremely precious and beneficial. But if you disagree, disagree respectfully.

Finally, Indian culture is not at all about assuming whatever happened in past to be foundation of Indian culture. Hundreds of people may have done hundreds of things in hundreds of situations and social contexts in past. They may have written texts, build idols or done anything else. We don’t even know the situations properly. Who cares whether they were right or wrong! Indian culture is not about justifying everything of past.

Indian culture is about being relevant to need of the hour. Gita is not about doing Hanuman Chalisa in battlefield. Yes, take inspiration from Hanuman in morning. But when in battlefield, it is about becoming an actual Hanuman to fight the terrorists because nation demands so. The need of hour is to fight the real enemies. To stand for those deprived urges which lead to lifelong subjugation, death and fear for millions.

Keep your “Illustrated Kamasutra” at your bedside in night if you so desire. No one is keen to regulate your private life. But utilize your public life for constructive and meaningful causes. At least don’t be destructive. If you have to indeed fight, stop shadow-boxing and fight the real enemy.

There are stress-relieving punching toys available in market. They say that, if you have a boss you hate, buy one such dummy toy and hit him hard whenever you are angry with your boss. Curse him, abuse him, do whatever you want. The toy would silently bear it all and relieve you of your stress hormones. But please realize that Sangh Pariwar and other lovers of Indian culture are humans – not toys. Don’t punch them just because you are scared to hit out at the real enemies of freedom.

The real enemy

There are extremely dangerous forces getting stronger and stronger in present day who thrive on intolerance. I would support any ‘Kiss of Love’ protest or something even more extreme if conducted against the real fanatics. It would, however, be criminal to ignore the real culprits and beat up an innocent next-door just because he is harmless.

I list out the real big goons who go miles ahead of “Moral Policing” and promise my full support to those who show the guts to hold “Kiss of Love” protests against these. Ironically, even when the whole world knows that these forces form the real threats to freedom of expression, the “Kiss of Love” protests have suspiciously been totally silent against these.

– The Imam Syed Ahmed Bukhari of Jama Masjid, Delhi clearly stated that those women who do not wear burqa are against Islam. He abused Shabana Azmi as “nachne gane wali aurat” (a lowly woman who dances and sings) when she raised her voice against burqa (the face veil). The Imam had the chutzpah to invite Prime Minister of Pakistan for dastaarbandi ceremony but refused to invite the Prime Minister of India. The Imam also believes that those who do not follow Islam will go to Hell and idol-worshippers are greatest sinners. Needless to say, his views on “Kiss of Love” is more fanatic and more damaging for crores of Muslim women than opinions of Sangh Pariwar. Why no protest in front of Jama Masjid?

– Why not create a “Kiss of Love” movement in Kashmir where the views on women liberation and freedom of expression is more apalling than any other state in country? Additionally a vast number of them are brainwashed to consider “Jai Hind” as an abuse.

– Why spare ISIS who openly enslaves and sells Kurdish and Yezid women? They would not argue and simply behead you if you dare to demonstrate “Kiss of Love”

– In Saudi Arab and many other countries, if you hold hand of a woman in public, you would be lashed to death. If you kiss, God only knows the hell that awaits you. Why no word of protest against them and so many in India who consider Saudi Arab to be the ideal state of the world.

– Darul Uloom Deoband school of Islam needs greatest lesssons in liberalism. It has issued fatwa forbidding women to even get into professions where they have to spend a split second alone with men. The views on divorce through SMS, and hell for non-muslims better be not discussed. Why no “Kiss of Love” protest in front of this center of regressive hatred against women and non-Muslims?

– Muslim Personal Law Board refuses to have even a single female member in its team. It gives free right to male to marry more than once without consent of wife. It also endorses triple talaq without obligation to pay for maintenance of wife. In name of religion, 15 crore Muslim women are subjugated and deprived of most basic rights of dignity. If a typical Muslim woman is seen as participating in “Kiss of Love”, she is destined to face worse than hell while on earth. Why no protest against the anti-woman Muslim Personal Law Board?

– The Aligarh Muslim University recently “explained” that it will not allow girls to enter the library because that would “attract” more boys and cause “space crunch”!! Should it not be the next ideal destination for “Kiss of Love”?

– I saw many Muslim young guys coming to participate enthusiastically in “Kiss of Love” protests. But Muslim women did not come out. No single Muslim guy stated that he would work to encourage Muslim women also to get out of home to kiss in public. This itself shows that the “Kiss of Love” protests are targeting the wrong enemies. It is like scratching the nose because the back is itching. When asked why, reply was that the hand does not reach the back. So better scratch the nose!

The real causes to fight for

– The country has too many real causes to fight for. Humanity has much more. The real fight – for those inspired by right to freedom of expression – is against those fanatics who can kill, loot, rape, hate if you differ from them. They are ravaging the world today. Not far from India, ISIS has set up its base and is indulging in brutalities that would make a Ghazni or Aurangzeb ashamed.They have clearly articulated India as their prime target. They have recruited several jihadis from here. They are a blot in name of Islam, humanity and freedom of expression. And they are rising. The so-called Muslim leadership including Personal Law Board, Imam Bukhari, Darul Uloom Deoband, huge number of Bin Laden sympathizers, vast number of anti-woman anti-Indian Kashmiri separatists, ISIS create an ideal breeding ground for fanaticism to thrive through their reign of fatwas and subjugation of women. By raising an artificial alarm of injustice, they prompt the less-intelligent and more-emotional youth to embark on the path of terror and hatred. Lets fight against them – united and together. Lets influence and strengthen the liberal Muslim minds trapped in this web of deceit, extremism, hatred and subjugation. And bring true spirit of freedom of expression where it is most needed. Think of it – people are blasted away, shot dead or forced to live in veil forever because the fundamental rights are non-existent.

The liberal elements and women among Muslim world are today the worst victims of subjugations in name of religion or culture. The whole world is witnessing the scary outcomes of this rule of terror. The liberal Islam of APJ Abdul Kalam is under clutches of few fanatic elements of extremism and prejudices. They need our greatest support. This rise of mad elements in Islamic world is ripping off happiness of both Muslims and non-Muslims. They should be our first priority for any movement for freedom of expression.

– India is home to largest number of hungry people in world. More than 200 million people are food-insecure as per most conservative estimates. It is a matter of shame that when the most basic urge of any living being – hunger – is not satisfied for one out of every five people in this country, how can I even think of protesting for such fancy urges for which every other place is an opportunity. And if someone is so insensitive to the real needs of millions of my brothers and sisters, I too can’t spare any sensitivity to their hormonal turbulences. If you don’t consider all Indians as your family, I refuse to consider selfish people like you as part of my family. My brothers and sisters are dying because of hunger. Don’t be so selfish. Put your energies in securing them food and dignity. At least don’t mock their genuine urge for survival by wasting your talents in pursuit of urge of hormones. Instead of “Kiss of Love”, focus on “Food for Hunger” to fight the real urges that are killing our brothers, sisters and newborns.

– The world is changing and providing a land-mine of opportunities to transform India and make it lighthouse of world once more. A lot needs to be done. We need to become more productive, create wealth through our intellect and efforts, bring transparency in system and processes, awaken the true spirit of Indian culture and unleash the legend within each of us. Think big, act bigger. Consider what would be that one big thing that you could do to bring greatest benefits to most and greatest satisfaction to yourself that you justified the gift of life. Indulge in pursuit of that BIG. Rise above petty self. Rise up to fight for bigger and more worthy cause. This pursuit of big and bigger and even bigger is what would give true meaning to your life. Get away from the herd mentality that aims to trigger your hormones. After all you are not a dumb chemical reaction. You are a human! You have intellect! What more, you have a most marvelous gift in form of wonderful Indian cultural heritage!! And since you are so special, you have a very special responsibility – to take India to an era of prosperity, success, justice and equality. And make the entire world prosper in the process.

– Don’t waste a single moment on things that belittle your potential. These silly “Kiss of Love” or “Piss of Urge” insult your potentials. Don’t waste your precious time and energy in pettiness.

– Choose the real causes to fight for. And real missions to commit to. If you have real guts and indeed want to stand for real things, join Agniveer. We will together bring real changes that bring real meaning to life.

– Agniveer needs you. India needs you.

We salute the legend in you. And keenly await you as leader of the real mission.

Jai Hind, Vande Mataram

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78 COMMENTS

Ankur November 13, 2014 At 1:12 pm

if the Kiss lovers had even a peanut of a brain they would have argued with logical arguments rather than swapping spit.

Jyothish Vijay November 13, 2014 At 6:04 pm

It seems that the author here failed to understand that “moral policing” is a social evil. It is a weapon available at the disposal of anti-social element to attack EVEN innocent people. The driving reason may be just jealousy. I agree a few moral poicing acts maybe done with right intentions. But if we allow moral policing the anti-socials will take over. Numerous incidents like that has pappened. It can affect us directly. Hence the protests now

Jyothish Vijay November 13, 2014 At 6:10 pm

Why RSS is targeted?
Because the person involved here is a BJP Yuvamorcha activist and the group maintains that their act was a group decision.

Naturally…..I am very much afraid of what groups like that may do in future.

Personally I know of an attack on hamrless married couple in the name of moral policing, which made me realize that keeping the moral policing option available for use is very dagerous. A few jealous young men could use it against me because of some personal vendetta !

Jyothish Vijay November 13, 2014 At 6:13 pm

Let me clarify further…..I don’t support public kissing. …..not a bit

But if doing so will get rid of this moral police, I will gladly support the KOL group.

Why don’t I target Islamic fundamentalist?
Ans: I do…..thats why I became an RSS supporter ! But this single incident has created doubts in me. “Once in full power will the RSS keep me in their version of Taliban?”

I don’t know……what goes inside the RSS brains……do I?
Now u tell me…..isn’t my concerns fair…

- deepak November 13, 2014 At 10:01 pm
  
  Dear once Maharashtra was considered a hindu state under shivaji rule, can you tell me how many other religion people were displaced from Maharashtra while rest of india was facing a brutal king Auragjeb? Our history is oldest one, do you find anywhere like taliban? How many country has been invaded to make them convert to hinduism? Even in the long history of RSS, has any decision been forced upon anyone? It is lame excuse that if RSS will bahave like Taliban then?.
  
  - Jyothish Vijay November 15, 2014 At 12:40 am
    
    Be that as it may. My concerns are very real. Moral policing has been used to settle personal vendetta. RSS groups have to keep away from moral policing 100%. You keep asking “Has anybody been forced?”
    
    Ans:If RSS never forces, why don’t they issue a public statement distancing themselves from any actions of moral policing?
    
    NB: Whether RSS is involved or not….this moral policing is a very real threat. It has murdered and injured even totally innicent people..I will not support it
Akanksha November 14, 2014 At 8:55 pm

Is Agniveer movement active in Maharashtra ?

Freethinker December 11, 2014 At 6:23 am

I hope agniveer write an article about Right wing hindu extremist who are internal threat to our society who blames women’s clothing for rape and give moral policing to us i don’t see much difference in islamic terrorist and this hindu extremist because of them our youth is hating Indian culture and feel ashamed to be an hindu and are ignorant about Vedas and vedic culture……… please agniveer

Ārya December 11, 2014 At 6:53 am

Agniveer Very disappointing you may not support “kiss of love” but its seems that you are biased toward this hindu-defender who says” rape india me hota hai bharat me nahi “.its a shame that you support this misogynist goons who beat up innocents. sex was not a secret thing in Vedic period as it is evident from ancient Hindu places like Khajuraho, Ajanta, Ellora temples and scriptures ………your site was very useful in 2010-12 but now its just another hindu apologist site… 🙁

- Basant Jhariya January 5, 2015 At 3:17 am
  
  Although i abused Agniveer to extreme levels. i even harassed his family members. but i have to say that he is champion of everything divine. His words can be compared from God. in other words.. his words are words of God… Agniveer’s heart is most pure in entire universe and beyond universe. i tried to put him down from extreme levels.. i did upasana .. used Yog Darshan of Patanjali and Sankhya Darshan of Kapil.. i used concepts to cause complex and disorganization in Agniveer’s heart. but…
  
- harsh singh January 21, 2016 At 4:45 am
  
  u pig,didnt u read in his articles that kamasutra ,khajuraho are all antivedic and cause of downfall of india,because our princly class indulged in such activities..every sanskrit text doesnt become holy..u r a lust mindedmanand anenemy ofvedicculture
  
  - Jyothish Vijay January 21, 2016 At 8:19 pm
    
    @singh
    
    And is it vedic culture to call others a pig?
    
    Whether Kamasutra khajuraho all are anti vedic or not, they have been existant for milleniums now…and unlike Islamic culture(which everyone agrees to be foreign), there is difference of opinion regarding whether it’s anti vedic or not
    
    Anyway that’s besides the point….
    The point is when killlings occur in the street, when harmless couples are not allowed to spend some peaceful time at a beach, when moral gundas are wandering amok……its improper to comment against KOL
    
    Because let’s face culturally or otherwise vandalism is a far greater threat to community than KOL
    
    AND it’s not like KOL is advocating a right to kiss……it is just symbolic nature of protest against vandalism.
    
    It’s like the truly moral people in the society declaring to those moral gundas:
    “Look..we don’t need you killers here….to monitor us…
    We will kiss in public…who r u to ask?”
    
    I am a person who doesn’t miss in public… Who will try to iculcate the appropriate culture inmy children ….but when it comes to who to support…I see moral gundas as a greater threat on which I have no control….. And to defeat them I will support KOL….who BTW are demanding for a right to kiss in public at all
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 2:41 am
    
    yes,any person,who has no sense control is regarded as animal in edas..socalling him a pig is perfectly ok..u said kamasutra and khajuraho exited quite a long time,,brother vedas exists for time immemorial..just because something is existing for long time doesnt mean it becomes dharmic..rapes ,existed for long time,murder ,loot all these crimes ,existed from ancient ages…question is not existence but is it dharmic or adhramic thats what matters..and kamasutra and khajuraho are totally anti vedic and tese lustful activities are cause of downfall of india..this topic has,been discussed so many times in this website…now KOL is also anti vedic,,vedas rescribe strict brahmharya before marriage and motherly look for females by males..total absence of lust…conjugal expressionsand physical intimacy is permitted ,among ,wedded beings ,not for teenage or college .so called lovers..kol is 100 percent antivedic..not only anti vedic ,it is against any religion in this world be it islam.christanity,sikkhism,buddhism or jainism,,..either u like it or not…now what is your personal opinion it doesnt matter,,this website is about vedas and vedic religion ,and it discusses any thing whichgoes against it..and sanjeev sir is very right and clear in his articles by criticizing kol…if u dont like it ,,thats your problem,,dharma cannot being changed according to your likings and dislikings ….u r free to do actions,express your opinion according to your wish,and god gives esult according to vedic laws..if u r in support in kol y dont u go to all those hedonists website whotakepleasure inall these nonsense..this is a dhramic web site ,no useof wasting your time over here..and yes supporters and practionres of such nonsense are indeed animal like ,according to any religious texts ,and they can be addressed as pigs….as there is no difference between them…
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 2:55 am
    
    and there is no differnce of opinion,that khajuraho and kamasutra are antivedic..only those call ,it dharmic are the ones who never studied vedas,,,its open challenge ,quote any vere from vedas ,which states kamasutra acts are dharmic.seducing,others wife,adultery,pedophile,bestiality ,these are alll against divine laws of vedas…qoute from where u find vedas supporting these acts,,infact vedas prescribe punishments for such acts,,,people like u first dint study vedas and then u will say there is difference of opinion. without any roof from vedas…khajuraho was built by chandela rulers who were vama -margis ,who can even have intercourse with their mother ,daughter ,sister,daugter in law according to their books of tantra .so supporters,of khajuraho should also practice same,and come out in open and claim that in front ofwhole world…but these are totally against divine vedas..either u like it or not …v in this website of vedas will condemn it ..u may go to some other website …
  - jyothish vijay February 4, 2016 At 5:51 pm
    
    @Singh
    
    I didn’t say Kamautra is Vedic or not vedic….I only said, its been there since millenium…..being in the vedas and being part of vedic culture are two different things……whats part of “vedic culture” is a very subjective definition…..anyway sex was never demeaned in our vedas or upanishads……sexual desire is the thing that was said to be binding us with the illusion..
    
    In fact, if my understanding is correct abrahmachari could also indulge in sex if it done for procreation purposeand if the person could detach himslef with the pleasure part of sex…..If such a person could do this….he could still be called brahmachari.
    
    Since u have asked me a question….let me also ask u a question……where is vedas or upanishads is it written that you should called another human being an animal?
    
    I have studied only the bhagavad geeta……..and not the vedas or upanishads in its entirety……but if my understanding of bhagawad gitsprinciples is right, there should be no verse either in the vedas orin the upanishads which could be inerpretd so as to make the name calling OK !!!!!!!!!
    
    Coming to practical scenarios……it is not just pre-marital orextramarital couples that gets harassed by gundas…….even if a husband and wife sits as a couple at a beach, they could be harassed
    
    And these gundas whom u support, could even kill or sexually harass……..I see them as evil……much more than any couple sitting alone at a beach (they are not evil at all)………You must realise that by supporting moral policing u r supporting a very unhealthy , anti-vedic violent practice in the society (viz; murder, sexual harassment, verbal harassment etc)
    
    You can’tjust say that kissing in public is anti vedic and thus support moral gundas……I can understand that by your interpretation u hink that kissing in public is anti vedic…..but ATLEAST u must also realise that vandalism too is anti vedic
  - jyothish vijay February 4, 2016 At 6:12 pm
    
    @ Singh
    
    Culture is not something whih will change. Forcing culture upon somebody’s throat by physical force cannot be right by any definition…….i don’t know whether u will come up with any vedic reasoning to justify that……BUT as far as I am concerned, I am sure i understand these principles very well and i don’t think u can even “misinterpret” the vedas to support these violent people !!!
    
    What i would do ensure good culture is to give proper education to my children to enable them to chose the right path……without actually having to tell grown up children, what is right and what is wrong.
    
    If your children didn’t turn up right…..its your fault…..u should try to change them…..agains not by force like these moral gundas.
    
    But as far asthese moral gundas are concerned, their activities are very much anti vedic ….their actions are what creates a rogue nation and a rogue country……The guiding principle is simple….”these people would not be wrong if they just thought that public kissing is wrong…..they become wrong in the way they try to change something which they perceive as wrong”…in other words…..using forceis not the way…..the couples should be changed from within. If u can’t do it, atleast have th decency not to approach this with violence !!!
    
    IF peoplelike u who claim to be vedic……had only condemned them, these gundas….maybe things could change
    
    But infortunately many people who claim to be vedic have erred in the application of their vedic knowledge…..resulting in selective blindness
    
    My support of KOL….how do i rationalise it?
    Ans: Its the way i see as right to discourage the moral gundas…..if they go out of the picture, I can take care of imbibing good culture in my kids….as of now even if my kids are good, these mroal gundas could attack my daughter and son in law(this has indeed happened)or they could attack and #bones of a very innocent co-worker…i support KOL to oppose them
    
    Do…
  - jyothish vijay March 24, 2016 At 10:35 pm
    
    @ Harsh
    Unfortunately I don’t respond to online threats very well.You can be as impolite as you want….you will still get replies from me…..and i will continue to be polite
    
    And don’t think I am embarassed at all being called a meat eater….do u feel embarassed if i call u a “grass-eater”? U calling me a meat eater is just lke that only.
    
    I don’t think u have any authority over Vedas more than anything that I have….u can’t prevent me in anything….U decrying me as ineligible doesn’t make it so.
    
    And yes….u can post actual Vedic verse from those scholars u mentioned…my bad….but i will object to quoting their purports along with the meaning or tranliteration…Purports are a human beings opinion which will be affected by cultural norms and other social background…..and such opinions cannot be the basis of saying that “Vedas are against this…..Vedas are against that ” etc etc
    
    A clear-cut translation is acceptible…not purports
    
    Why this is so?
    I am sure u r well aware that swami Dayanand Saraswati says that idol worshipis against Vedas….despite the fact that there is noreference to “idol” in the veda (for or against)…..yet there are “Vedic scholars” who would disagree with swami dayanand
    
    I myself would not support extra marital or premarital sex…..i will say those acts are against your path of moksha….true….but saying that these acts are clearly against vedas (the words u used)is improper….because it impliesthat Vedas explicitly mentions against these acts…..and I know Vedas do not do that
    
    Vedas will say…god is without form and qualities
    
    but it wn’t say…..don’t worship idols
    
    The former is a direct statement and the later is an interpretation…..and each individual should reach theirown interpretation about such stuff…..rather than follow the words of human beings which might differ from person to person
    
    I am not arguing with any of your scholars….because there is no one to one stage to…
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 10:42 pm
    
    now,this is heights of ignorance…u told u have read geeta .nowtake these verses from geeta– balam balavatam caham
    kama-raga-vivarjitam
    dharmaviruddho bhutesuThe strong man’s strength should be applied to protect the weak, not for personal aggression. Similarly, sex life, according to religious principles (dharma), should be for the propagation of children, not otherwise.
    kamo ‘smi bharatarsabha- and those people engaged in lustful activities of fornication,adultery can be called animals according to me because they are going to such yonis according to bhagwad geeta ,which u said that u have read… tān ahaḿ dviṣataḥ krūrān
    saḿsāreṣu narādhamān
    kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān
    āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu—bg 16.19- In this verse it is clearly indicated that the placing of a particular individual soul in a particular body is the prerogative of the supreme will. The demoniac person may not agree to accept the supremacy of the Lord, and it is a fact that he may act according to his own whims, but his next birth will depend upon the decision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not on himself. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Third Canto, it is stated that an individual soul, after his death, is put into the womb of a mother where he gets a particular type of body under the supervision of superior power. Therefore in the material existence we find so many species of life—animals, insects, men, and so on. All are arranged by the superior power. They are not accidental. As for the demoniac, it is clearly said here that they are perpetually put into the wombs of demons, and thus they continue to be envious, the lowest of mankind. Such demoniac species of men are held to be always full of lust, always violent and hateful and always unclean.
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 10:45 pm
    
    bg16.20-āsurīḿ yonim āpannā
    mūḍhā janmani janmani
    mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
    tato yānty adhamāḿ gatim-It is known that God is all-merciful, but here we find that God is never merciful to the demoniac. It is clearly stated that the demoniac people, life after life, are put into the wombs of similar demons, and, not achieving the mercy of the Supreme Lord, they go down and down, so that at last they achieve bodies like those of cats, dogs and hogs. It is clearly stated that such demons have practically no chance of receiving the mercy of God at any stage of later life. In the Vedas also it is stated that such persons gradually sink to become dogs and hogs.
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 10:55 pm
    
    It may be then argued in this connection that God should not be advertised as all-merciful if He is not merciful to such demons. In answer to this question, in the Vedanta-sutra we find that the Supreme Lord has no hatred for anyone. The placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of His mercy. its like u failed infinal exam which is human body then again u have repeat whole year ,which are lower births of animal …bg 16.21-Lord Krishna concisely enunciates that lust, greed and anger are the three gates leading straight to hell. All the demoniac vices and characteristics iterated previously are the symptoms of lust, greed and anger which are the root cause and basis of all the others. These three are very destructive and degenerative for a human being completely obscuring discrimination and the consciousness of the atma or immortal soul and hence to be shunned and avoided by all means, for their influence propels one directly into lower, debased life forms and reincarnations in hellish existences. So lust, greed and anger must be renounced, abandoned and rejected if one wants to avoid residing in hell.
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 11:23 pm
    
    i think these verses will clear your doubt,that yes ppl supporting khajuraho,kamasutra texts as holy and as acceptable practice can be addressed animal like because those are states they are going to attain by following such practice..now u said vedas dont demean sex,where in my commnet u saw me criticizing ,sex..i was criticizing illicit sex,-such as premarital and extra marital..and vedas and vedanta like geeta clearly declare sex as dharmic only between married couples ,which has,been addressed in above verses. .now u r constantly,arguing with me that y i m calling other as animal..my answer -yes i have shown enough verses from text which u claim to have read ,states facts that such ppl go to lower births of animals.. .now u r also arguing with me as supporter of rss.my answer…firstly in any,of my comment i didn’t mention rss..i dont even know about them perfectly..u took my comment out of context..what rss does i m not aware of it ..i was ridiculing that person who was ,calling agniveer as puritanical and fraud ,by saying kamasutra and khajuraho as holy..which has been refuted several times by many volunteers in this website..so that beginners in vedic religion don’t get .illuisioned by mistakes of our ancestors ..as symbol ofdharma..that was my purpose of commenting ,,to bring down any person who declares them as holy..but u took my specific comment to that person to some out of context thing…now weather kol is vedic or anti vedic ..if u want an answer tothis…sorry weather u like it or not .it is antivedic…
  - harsh singh February 4, 2016 At 11:44 pm
    
    Vedas Prohibit Physical contact before marriage
    Yajurved mantra 8/10 says that opposite sex should not love or give heart to each other before marriage and physical contact therefore is strictly prohibited. Secondly to obey the preach of Veda’s is pious act and to go against the Vedas is sin. The result of sin comes in the shape of sorrow, serious disease, tensions, problems or early deaths, etc.
    
    Is to have a relationship before marriage sin?
    It is a great sin, . Yajurved clearly states that a girl or a boy must never give her or his heart to opposite sex and must never even touch each other before marriage i.e., when marriage is fixed and performed completely thereafter only they can meet. So sins create sorrows. To maintain Brahmacharya is the best way to build life strong and to live a long, happy life.
    
    In Vedas, there is a fundamental law, both for boy and girl, that they should never give their heart to opposite sex till marriage. That is why, in the ancient time, marriage based on swayamvar were performed which avoided one sided love too. in rig ved also which talks about scince and, students life..clearly asks not toeven think about opposite sex and leak semen in dreams also,before married life.mind is tobe engaged in educational,spritual,physical and mental develoment..and KOL ..may be some married couples must be engaged in that movemant but as far as i know 90 percent of them are..youngsters and unmarried couples..so by now u must have realized that it is anti vedic………….in one of your line u said “these people would not be wrong if they just thought that public kissing is wrong…..they become wrong in the way they try to change something which they perceive as wrong”…this line makes no sense.according to this line great heros like .bose,gandhi,nelson mandela ,lincon also ercived something wrong .but according toyourline they become wrong since it was simply there perception and they tried to change ..
  - harsh singh February 5, 2016 At 12:22 am
    
    and kol is not only against vedas but any holy book in this world u take it will be against that kind of nonsense,because mostly un married couples are envovled in it..u can refer ,bible and its ideas about pre -marital relations..my comments were specific to arya who bought kamasutra as a holy book..it was not against nor pro rss.as i dont know about it..but yes if u ask kol i dont support it as its against vedas..u said u support kol because as per u ,rss anti vedic ,hence u support another anti vedic activity called “KOL”.gr8..go ahead do it..who is stopping u ..me i only support vedic activities and comment against any antivedic activity..beit rss as alleged by u ,i dint know about it or be it kol. my comment.wastothat man arya .whosuddenly jumped to antivedictext andcallingit as dharmic .i didnt comment on rss or kol..i commented on his comment of kamasutra..but u took those things to issues which i never addressed,. i simply bought real picture of kamasutra and khajuraho.god knows what infuriated u ..and u r continously arguing and imposing your beliefs.at least whatever i wrote and express.is totally consistent with holy scriptures..by antivedic.i mean against vedas.u again tried to twist things by calling vedic culture as subjective issue..which is not at all subjective.vedic culture is means as culture which has society which acts according toholy vedas.there is no subjectivity in it..and that era was called vedic age of satyuga..khajuraho and kamasutra dont belong toeven later vedic age ..they belong to the age of guptas..which was a translationalage,,and its world wide accepted fact.where u find subjectivity in it..ignorants and enemies of vedas have made the dharma as subjective issue ,i n name of freedom of expression ,whereas as dharma is as objective and unchanged and eternal as is sun rising in the east and uniersallaw of gravitation..dharma is like science..and only vedas describe dharma and this fact has been stated by every
  - jyothish vijay February 5, 2016 At 12:29 am
    
    @ Singh
    
    I reserve my comments to other aspects of the dialogue….for now i am very interested to see what yajurveda 8-10 says…..please post the sanskrit verse or atleast the transliteration….the one you said prohibits pre marital sex !!!
  - harsh singh February 5, 2016 At 12:43 am
    
    giants like..madhava,shankara,ramanujam and guru nanak sahibetc etc..only by knowledge of vedas man can decide what is wrong what is right.and it is not a subjective matter..people make it subjective because of some personal agendas..bg-16.23-yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
    vartate kāma-kārataḥ
    na sa siddhim avāpnoti
    na sukhaḿ na parāḿ gatim-He who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination. .Commentary by Sri Ramanuja :
    
    16.23 Here Sastra means Vedas. Vidhi stands for injunction. He who abandons My injunction called Vedas and acts under the influence of desire, viz., takes the path according to his own wishes, does not attain perfection, He does not reach any Siddhi in the next world, nor does he find the slighest happiness in this world, let alone the attainment of the supreme state. It is not possible for him to do so. Such is the meaning. .16.23 Utsrjiya, ignoring, setting aside; sastra-vidhim, the precept of the scriptures, which is th source of the knoweldge of what is duty and what is not-called injunction and prohibition; yah, he who; vartate, acts; kama-karatah, under the impulsion of passion; sah, he; na, does not; avapnoti, attain; siddhim, perfection, fitness for Liberation; nor even sukham, happiness in this world; nor even the param, supreme best; gatim, Goal-heaven or Liberation.. .now u said -“IF peoplelike u who claim to be vedic……had only condemned them, these gundas….maybe things could change”..firstly to condemn anyone i need to know about him. and i more into research works,than these political matters…if u feel they r wrong plz condemn them.did i ask u to not condemn them..then y r u just pouring your opinions over me.for a comment that never addressed issue of rss.it was specific to…
  - jyothish vijay March 15, 2016 At 11:51 pm
    
    @ Harsh (part 2)
    
    Bhagavad Gita 2.56
    
    dukhesv anudvigna-manah
    sukhesu vigata sprhah
    vita raga bhaya krodhah
    sthita-dhir munir ucyate
    
    One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst the threefold miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is free from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind.
    
    Agreed u may not a “siddh purush” yet…..but atleast thats what u must aim for….look back at your actions….u r the one who is becoming desperate to prove yourself right, you become angry, irritated etc…..all for what? Just in response for someone talking to you calmly from far away on the internet.
    
    Your actions are reflected in the actions of those moral gundas (not the state mind you)…..who resort to physical violence in a cultural fight….if its a cultural fight that your opponent is fighting u must have the cultural integrity to fight it in the same manner….In Mahabharatha, violence was resorted to as a last resort, when without physical action it was deemed impossible to restore dharma!!!
    
    Can’t you restore dharma without shouting and swearing? Is your dharma so weak to make you lose your temple even in the security of the net?
    
    I opposed you….it pains me that a follower of my path is resorting to adharmic methods towin
    
    The moral gundas against KOL…..resorted to physical violence when therewas lot many other methods to fight them….that is why they are wrong
    
    I fight cultural degradation by inculcating cultural values in my children….if they see the fighting that my religion does…..i am afraid theymight have a poor notion about it
    
    PS:I willget back to you…on those vedic verses….once i get the oppurtunity check up with my copy of vedas
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 2:06 pm
    
    @jyotish, of all u have formed your own dharma with noi support from vedas,,u support kol for whatever reasons thats your prblm,,but what u need to do is prove from vedas,,i have clearly quoted books and verses from vedas against pre marital sex,,and fornication and these books are from seers who have attained samadhi and arre your grandsires in knowledge of hindu scriptures,and i have quoted each vese line by line..its u who is unable to refute it ,but ur just quarelling because u r frustrated ,,why dont u ask any vedic acahrya about your filthy kol,and this is last time i m responding u..i m in no mood to talk to cry babies like u,,who only type their nonsense ,with no support from vedas, and will u stop talking to me ..i m in no mood to hear your filthy ,dirty dharma which u have formed..if u have any discripancies keep it to yourself,,u r just barking like a dog,,with no support for pre marital sex or kol from vedas..if u have your own meanings for verses i have quoted,,debate with those learned people who have written those books by mediating on those hymns..no point in arguing with me..u support kol ,i dont thats it u cant impose your belief on me which u r doing in name of vedas..i dont get back to me ..i m not intrested in talking to you..and if u have somuch knwldg which u have claimed..then u must have read and known these books,,which u haven’t ,,this shows u just claim to be knowledegable..and despite giiving so many verses from gita and vedas against pre marital relations ,,and books by authors u r still barking ” i m yet to find blah blah” if u have so much of knowledge y dont u debate with authors who have qouted those,,..now plz stop your nonsense ,i dont talk tome in future ,debate with authors,,i m not intrested in talking to u..
  - jyothish vijay March 23, 2016 At 7:09 pm
    
    @ Harsh
    
    As far as the other two remaining verses are concerned, I will get back to you.
    
    Now i don’t need a guru to tell me that pre marital sex or extra marital sex is good or bad….I don’t indulge in them ….not because of somehigher knowledge…..just because i don’t feel its right
    
    But i doubt whether Vedas will say so…..this is because our Vedas unlike scriptures of semetic religions are not some”instruction manual to humans” about what is right and what is wrong..
    
    Sex done with lust in whatever form will take u away from moksha…whether it is pre marital or post marital or within marriage !
    
    You ( a person in Karmayoga) are allowed to have lust to the extent that is necessary to make u able to do sex…..if u can do that, your brahmacharya is not affected….and i don’t see that happening with pre marital or extramarital sex….thats my scriptural explanation against extramarital and premarital sex.
    
    Regarding debating your gurus….YES i have that option….But here at Agniveer, if u r putting in a point that is not in vedas….i will say so…and i have that freedom
  - jyothish vijay March 24, 2016 At 10:43 pm
    
    @ Harsh
    
    And if i ever meet a vedic scholar…..i will not be asking a question on extra marital or pre marital sex….mind u….because these are things i don’t do even now….i don’t need to ask them
    
    there are lot many things for me to ask…..one being his opinion regarding protest methods like KOL as a defence against vandalism…..of course the first answer would be negative…..but i have lot many side questions to ask……i am sure a Vedic scholar will not say things like “violence is OK against activities like KOL….”….>thats what usaid though…..and i am sure as per vedic principles, violence is a much greater issue than KOL…..and so on
    
    As far as the question of whether something being in the Vedas or not…..i only need translation…..not interpretation
    
    Yes…there r two more of your versesleft….i will reply here as soon as possible, whether u like it or not !
  - jyothish vijay March 26, 2016 At 12:58 am
    
    @harsh
    
    plz don’t be polite to me just because i am elder….plz be polite to me only if its your culture and/or your personality to be polite unless the situation is absolutely essential to behave otherwise
    
    yes…i had stated this weeks back that i have children …daughters…..and i have experienced very bad things by the moral gundas which u support directly or indirectly
    
    these moral gundas act as if upholding our culture or our dharam….and unlike other religions Sanathan dharma doesn’t have religious authorities who arbitrates about the rights and wrongs in situations like these
    
    i did see KOL as a method of protest to bury those monsters…..and it would have helped a lot if public figures of our religion had come out with a statement that….”whether couples sitting together or travelling is our culture or not…..one thing is most certain…..these moral gundas who resort to various forms of harssment questioning physical or mental assult all in the name of upholding culture are definitely much much more sinful and its their act that degrades our culture and our dharma”
    
    i am no public figure…..my voice has no value
    
    if on the other hand a public figure of our dharm had made this statement…..KOL would not have happened…..noone spoke out….and i had no option but to support KOL…..because to me there is no doubt….these moral gundas are a much much greater menace in our society……KOL poses no danger to me…i know my daughters and i have given them good education and i have faith in them !!!
    
    rest of the stuff we can agree to disagree ….its not my stand anyway
  - harsh singh February 5, 2016 At 12:59 am
    
    .my comment was extremely specific…y wait for 8- 10days just google agniveer on intercourse before marriage ..he has also stated that vedas are strictly against any intercourse before marriage..still u want more buy yagurved from this website..www.vedicbooks.com and a more sceintific approach..www.vedah.com,this websiteis maintained by dr rl kashyap..he has done extreme research in vedas .and translated all 4 vedas .ucan buy fromhis website..he also writes notes on vedas on his website..where he has. given resons of unchastity degrading humans.. and y taking somuch pain towait n read vedas..simply .read geeta .which u claim tohave read and i have provided verses in my comments where it forbids pre marital sex and adultery..u can read translations of any..good vedic scholar..even the version of isckon states same fact by srila prabhupad andalso bhagwad geeta meangings by swami mukundanda also states the same ..i am kama not against dharma..He makes a name for himself and enjoys happiness. He is firm and courageous; his mind is
    centered on the increase of knowledge and attainment of wisdom. Men or learning and piety give
    him their helping hand to elevate him. He is thus honored amongst them. Those who marry
    without having previously practiced Brahmacharya and acquired knowledge and culture, or who
    do so at an early life, are absolutely ruined, nor are they ever respected by the wise and the
    learned.” RIG VEDA 3:8: 4.
    *Let girls, who are virgins, resembling cows that have never been milked before, who have
    passed the period of childhood and are about to leave single lives, are well-educated and
    cultured, fit to bear all the responsibilities of married life, and are in the full bloom of youth, who,
    by the practice of Brahmacharya, have reached a state of excellence and wisdom, which only
    those of great learning and high virtues can attain, marry husbands of mature age and bear
    children by them.” RIG VEDA 3:55: 16.Never should they think…
  - harsh singh February 5, 2016 At 1:06 am
    
    u can even refer bible verses or quran orguru granth sahib..nowhere u will find sanctity of premarital sex..which indirectly u r trying to prove as a valid and acceptable things .only god knows why..but plz stop pouring your belifs on me of an issue which i never addressed..and yes i m believer in vedas,geeta andeven bible beacuse leaving storiesits commandments areconsistent with vedasand alsoguru granth sahib..and i declare openly premarital sex is adhramic activity ..as per these holy books..and this website discusses vedas..if u have different opinion gr8..keep it..and discuss it on some other website.and plz before commentinghere do read the disclaimer .of this website..
  - harsh singh February 5, 2016 At 1:15 am
    
    i alsorequest tosanjeev newar sir and vashi sir to comment here ..and express ther views from vedas.
  - jyothish vijay February 5, 2016 At 1:17 am
    
    @SINGH
    
    It was you who said that yajurveda 8/10 prohibits pre marital sex…..u said that yaj 8/10 says that “Yajurved clearly states that a girl or a boy must never give her or his heart to opposite sex and must never even touch each other before marriage”
    
    You quoted it going into the specifics within the verse……obviously then u must also post the verse as such…….english translation cannot be called as the actual verse….plz post the actual verse? Transliteration is also ok !!!
  - jyothish vijay February 5, 2016 At 1:59 am
    
    @ singh
    
    I take it that u r not in possession of the actual verse?
    
    Did someone tell u the meaning and just wrote here…..or did u copy it from somewhere?
    
    Now plz tell me if i am wrong…..u have indeed searched a lot for any vedic referrences for pre martal/extramarital sex….and u have so far failed-haven’t you?…>.question 1
    
    Let it be….now i will search for the actual yaj8/10 and post it here (if i am successful)
    
    Yes….i had bought it years ago…..don’t know whether its here with me right now…i will search…i will also attempt to get an ebook, if thats available !!!!
    
    PS: I am taking this point by point thats all…..no use, if we discuss lot many things together !
    
    NB: I still would like an answer to questin no:1 though!!
  - jyothish vijay February 5, 2016 At 4:04 am
    
    @ Singh
    
    Now here is the actual verse yajurveda 8-10
    
    agne patnivansajurdevena twastha somam pib swaha ll
    prajapati vrishoshi retodi reto mayi dehi prajapathesthe vrishno retodasho retodhamasiya ll
    
    Its the english transliteration of the actual sanskrit verse……now i hope its very clear for you that this is not about premarital or extramarital sex…..if u even know some basic hindi, u will understand that…this verse talks about married couple thats all….all it says is that ‘oh husband and wife–imbibe good qualities, appreciate the essence of god around you, be viruous- and u will be rewarded by children with good qualities”
    
    If u have got your interpretation from somebody,its not the other persons fault….its yours….if u presume for a desired meaning and then searchfor a matching verse…..this is where u will get !!!!
    
    (I will try to be back later….to discuss other issues….if u too are finished with this point regarding premarital sex)
  - harsh singh March 10, 2016 At 3:41 pm
    
    @jyotish..first of all u have resorted to such a level , that u are almost begging to get your pre marital sex authenticated and u even went further to extramarital sex..now i m surprised by your filthy and shameless audacity that even after quoting that these acts are foribbiden from great text bhagwad geeta ,,u r just here trying to find loop hole to get your kol etablished as vedic..first of all vedas prohibt any pre marital or extramarital intercourse..if u dont read vedas thats your fault and this is where ppl like u land..
    RIGVED 1.179.2- THE MALE BRAHMACHARIS SHOULD RECIEVE WISDOM AND EDUCATION AND MARRY BRAHMACHARINIS OF SAME MERIT AND GOOD CONDUCT FOR PROJENY.(RIGVED BHASYA BY SWAMI DAYANADA SARASWATI)
    RIGVED 3.8.4-NO ONE CAN BECOME A CIVILISED,LONG LIVED AND LEARNED PERSON,WITHOUT WISDOM ,GOOD EDUCATION AND BRAHMACHARYA(RVB BY DAYANDA)
    RIGVED 3.55.16- O MEN LET FEMALE BRAHMCHARINIS ,WHO ARE FULLY GROWN UP LIKE AN UNMILCH COW AFTER MARRIAGE,CONCIEVE THE SEMEN OF THEIR YOUTHFUL HUSBAND(rvb swami dayanda, satyarth prakash)(U EVEN DEMANDED TRANSLITERATION,SO TAKE IT)
    YAJURVEDM 6.24- AGNERVO’PANNAGRHASYA SADASI SADAYAMI NDRAGNYOR-BHAGADEHI STHA MITRAVARUNA-YORBHAGADHEYI STHA VISVESAM DEVANAM BHAGADHEYI STHA.AMURYA UPA SURYE YABHIRVA SURYAH SAHA TA NO HINVANTVADHVARAM
    PURPORT- UN MARRIED BRHAMACHARINI SHOULD MARRY UN MARRIED BRAHMACHARI BY HER OWN CHOICE WHO IS OF SAME ORER OF MERIT AND CONDUCT.(YAJURVED BHASYA BY SWAMI DAYANADA, PT HARISHARAN SIDDHANTALAKAR,DR TULSI RAM.PT DEVI CHAND)
    IRONY IS U JUST TO PROVE ME WROMG STRAIGHT AWAY WENT O 8.10 .HAD U BEEN A TRUE LEARNER U WOULD HAVE CAME ACROOS THE FIRST HYMN OF THIS CHAPTER WHICH F0RBIDS PRE MARITAL SEX.
    YAJURVED 8.1- O CELIBATE OF ADITYA ORDER , I ACCEPT YOU IN SACRED BOND OF MARRIAGE FOR LIFE TIME.OBSERVE RULES OF DHARMA AND WEDLOCK(YAJURVED BHASYA BY DAYANDA,TULSI RAM,DEVI CHAND)
    U EVEN JUST TO PROVE YOUR FILTHY KOL SUPPORT RIGHT AND ME WRNG WENT TO EXTRAMARITAL SEX..THIS SHOWS
  - harsh singh March 10, 2016 At 4:21 pm
    
    THIS SHOWS YOUR FRUSTATION ,THAT BECUSE WHAT U WERE THINKING WAS RIGHT ,WAS TOTALLY ANTI VEDIC.U WANT EXTRAMARITAL VERSE ALSO..
    YAJURVED 8.3-KADA CANA PRAYUCCHASYUBHE NIPASI JANMANI.TURIYADITYA SAVANAM TA INDRIYAMATASTHAVA MRTAM DIVYADITYEBHYASTVA.
    PURPORT- JO PRAMADI (LUSTY) PURUSH VIVAHIT STREE K ALAWA,PAR STREE KA SEWAN KARTA HAI WOH IS LOK AUR PARLOK
    (NEXT BIRTH) MEIN DURBHAAGI HOTA HAI.AUR JO SAYAMI APNI HI STREE KO CHAHNE WALA DOSRI STREE KO TYAAG NE WALA ONO LOKO MEIN SUKH KYUN NA BHOGE?ISLIYE SAB STRIYO KO CHAHIYE KI JITENDRIYA PATI KA SEWAN KARE ANYA KA NAHI..(YAJURVED BHASYA BY DAYANADA,BRAHCHARYA EK DUKH NIVARAK MADI BY SWAMI RAM SWAROOP JI MAHARAJ)
    YAJUVED 8.10- ISS SANSAR MEIN MANUSHYA JANAM PAKAR STREE AUR PURUSH BRAHMCHARYA ,VIDYA AUR UTTAM GUDON KO PRAPT HO KAR VIVAAH KARE.VIVAAH KI MARYADA ME REH KAR SANTAAN PRAPTI KE LIYE HUI RATI KRIYA(INTERCOURSE) SE UTPANN HUE SUKH KA ANAD PRAPT KARE.VIVAH K BINA BINA STREE AUR PURUSH EK DUSRE K SAMAGAM KI ICCH MAN SE BHI NA KARE.(YAJRVED BHASYA BY DAYANDA,BRAHCHARYA EK DUKH NIVARAK DIVYA MADI BY SWAMI RAM SWAROOP JI MAHARAJ).
    AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS VERSES IN YAJURVED AND ATHARVAVED WHICH FORBIDS ANY ILLICIT SEX..MANUSMRITI , BRHAMSUKTA OF ATARVAVED AND PATANJALI YOG DARSHAN ,SATYARTH PRAKSH DISCUSSES THIS MATTER ,,A COMPILED BOOK WHERE ALL DAMAGES OF ILLICIT SEX AND VERSES PROHIBTING INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE HAVE MENTIONED (NOT ALL VERSES HAVE BEEN MENTIONED BUT VITAL INFO IS THERE) IS BRAHMCHARYA A DUKH NIVARAK DIVYA MADI BY SWAMI AM SWAROOP JI .AVAILABLE AT VEDIC BOOKS.COM
    BUT ITS MEANT FOR PPL WITH THAT ATTITUDE NOT KOL PPL LIKE U..
    AND LET ME QUOTE A VERSE FROM YAJURVED .
    YAJUVED 23.21- HEY RAJAN,JO VISHAYA SEWA(LUSTFUL ACTIVITIES) MEIN RAMTE HUE` PURUSH AUR VYABHICHARI STRIYO KO PRABAL DAND DO.YANI SAMAJ SE VYABHICHAAR(INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE.IT IS USED FOR BOTH FORNICATION AND ADULTERY) KO PRABAL TARIKE SE MITAO(YAJURVED BHASYA BY DAYANDA,HARISHARAN SIDDHANTLAKAR)…
  - harsh singh March 10, 2016 At 4:36 pm
    
    SO IF STATE TAKES ANY STRICT ACTION AGAINST KOL ,ITS PERFECTLY VEDIC..
    IRONY IS I STATED SO VERSES FROM GEETA AND RIGVED WHICH FORBIDS ILICIT SEX AND WHO TRANSLATION AND PURPORT ARE PRESENT IN SATYARTHPRAKASH,U DIDN’T READ THEM AND STRAIGHT AWAY WENT TO 8.10.AND THAT TO THATS NOT MY INETREPRATATION THATS DONE BY GREAT SEERS LIKE SWAMI DAYANADA,HARISHARAN SIDDHALNKAR AND SWAMI RAM SWAROOP JI ..AND EVEN AGNIVEER IN HIS ARTICLES HAS STATED THIS FACT THAT VEDAS ARE STRICTLY AGAINST INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE AND EVEN LUSTFUL THOUGHTS,,WHEN U KNOW THAT THSI WEBSITE IS FOR LIKE MINDED PPL ,DISCLAIMER HAS BEEN PROVIDED AND I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE Y U R POKING YOUR NOSE AGAIN AND AGAIN,.DONT U GET IT THAT THIS WEBSITE IS NOT MEANT FOR PPL WITH YOUR KIND OF MINDSET..U R JUST WASTING YOUR TIME AND MINE IN QUIBLING BASELESSLY..NOW I THINK I HAVE PROVIDED ENOUGH IN DETAIL ALL RESOURCES AND IN NO MOOD TO DISCUSS ANYTHING WITH U ..BY YOUR COMMENTS U HAVE REVEALED YOUR PERSONALITY ANDMINDSET.IF U STILL WANT TO VERIFY U YOURSELF ORDER THE BOOKS I HAVE MENTIONED AND READ.AND GO AND CHALLENGE THE AUTHORS .,VEDIC ACHRYAS OF RESEARCH WING OF AYA SAMAJ AND AGNIVEER.NO POINT IN QUIBLING WITH ME. I WASNT EVEN TALKING TO U..AND HOPE IFU HAVE ANY SHAME LEFT U WILL NOT BE COMMENTING OVER MY COMMENTS AND INSTEAD BE READING THOSE BOOKS I STATED AND ARGUING AND CHALLENGING THE AUTHORS AND AGNIVEER..
  - jyothish vijay March 15, 2016 At 11:27 pm
    
    @Harsh
    
    First of all…I will reply to you. Despite whatever you may think, I consider myself more literate than you in Hindu scriptures and unlike you I know to actually practice those to an extent in real life.
    
    Therefore I will support agniveer whereever possible( if u doubt u can refer to sections on idol worship and many others to see that I am actually debateron behalf of Hinduism) and I will ask questions whereever I am in doubt. Just because he tells something is so, I don’t believe it. I go to the source material, read them myself and then only believe.
    
    In the context of KOL, there has been two events…one the actual KOL and second is the moral gundas…My understanding of Sanatan dharma principle says that kissing in publicforsatisfaction of lust is bad….but kissing in public is OK if done in non-lust context…..KOL activity was a public kissing event in non-lust context….And even if public kissing is done for satisfying lust (which is improper according to me), it is not punishable….and most certainly the act of moral gundas are even more wrong as per sanatan dharma principles !!!
    
    That is my basic premise…i explained it again only sothat we don’t lose track where it all started. I did not support pre marital sex, i did not support extra marital sex either…those are all your own imagination.
    
    I despise misquoting of scriptures…..It was you who FIRST mentioned Yaj8-10….i did not bring it up on my own….so there is no need for you to get upset with me quoting it….its your own doing.
    
    Now u havequoted so many verses from vedas…unfair…u should quote one by one….otherwise it will be a pointless debate.
    
    Anyway i will try to verify their authenticity (atleast of a few among them)…and then get back to you…..but i doubt if i will find atleast 1 verse against pre marital sex
    
    Now why did i intervene in your dialogue with another?
    
    It is because your actions are maligning my dharma, my religion
    The Hindu…
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 3:19 pm
    
    ALL VIEWERS AND BELEIVERS IN ARYA SAMAJ AND VEDAS , THERE IS THIS MAN CALLED JYOTISH,,HE CLAIMS THAT HE IS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE IN VEDAS..NOW V ALL KNOW THAT TO INTERPRET VEDAS ONE HAS TO BE A YOGI OF HIGH ORDER.THERE ARE CERTAIN RULES FOR IT WHICH HAS BEEN MENTIONED IN DETAIL IN THIS WEBSITE.BY MEDIATING AND PRACTICE OF ASTANG YOG ONLY ONE CAN SEE THE MEANINGS OF VEDIC HYMNS..BUT THIS MAN CALLED JYOTISH IS SUPPORTER OF KOL AND HE HIS CONTIONOUSLY BEGGING AND ARGUING THAT VEDAS ARE NOT AGAINST INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE.AND HE CLAIMS TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE IN HINDU SCRIPTURES AND A DEFENDER OF SANATAN DHARMA.HE EVEN CONSUMES MEAT ,HE WAS ARGUING ON NO BEEF IN VEDAS WITH A LADY .THAT TO WITH NO VERSE FROM VEDAS IN SUPPORT OF HIS ARGUMENTS..THIS MAN RAISED A TOPIC THAT VEDAS ARENT AGAINST INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE ACCORDING TO HIS GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF VEDAS, BUT V KNOW A MEAT EATER CAN NEVER EVER REALIZE REAL MEANING OF VEDIC HYMNS AS DISCUSSED BY AGNIVEER.THEN I GAVE THIS MAN VARIOUS VERSES FROM GITA AND VEDAS STEP BY STEP WITH TRANSLITERATION ,THEIR PURPORT AND THE REFRENCES OF BOOKS OF ALL VEDIC EXPERTS WHO GAVE THEIR LIFE TO VEDAS ,DID HARD ASTANG YOG ,READ VEDIC SANSKRIT AND GRAMMAR AND REALIZED TRUE MEANINGS OF VEDIC HYMNS..BUT DESIPTE GIVING REFRENCES HE IS JUST BARKING LIKE A DOG AS HE WAS DOING IN NO BEEF SECTION OF THSI WEBSITE WITH NO REFRENCE FROM VEDAS FOR HIS SUPPORT..THIS IDIOT HASN’T EVEN READ A SINGLE BOOK AMONG THOSE I HAVE MENTIONED ,NOR CAN HE EVER TRANSLATE VEDAS HIMSELF BEING A MEAT EATER,SO ALL THOSE WHO BELIVE IN ARYA SAMAJ OR AGNIVEER ..PLZ GO THOROUGH THOSE BOOKS THAT I HAVE MENTIONED AND READ THIS DOG’S COMMENTS AND THEMSELVES JUDGE HOW OUR VEDIC FAITH IS BEING RUINED BY THESE TYPE OF DOGS..JUST SEE THE SHAMEFULLNESS OF THIS DOG THAT HE COMMENTED OUT OF HIS FRUSTRATION WITHOUT EVEN CONSULTING THOSE BOOKS AND EVEN THE AUTHORS OF THOSE BOOKS,,ALTHOUGH SWAMI DAYANDA AND SIDDHALANKAR ARE NO MORE BUT SWAMI RAM SWAROOP MAHARAJ ..
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 3:40 pm
    
    SWAMI RAM SWAROOP IS STILL ALIVE ,HE RUNS HIS WEBSITE ON NET ,WHERE HE ANSWERS ALL QUESTIONS RELATED TO VEDAS,,AND HAS DID PENANCE AND DEVOTED HIS LIFE TO SPREAD KNOWLEDGE OF VEDAS ,HE HAS WRITTEN A BOOK ON THIS TOPIC CALLED BRAHMCHARYA ,EK DUKH NIVARAK DIVYA MADI ..WHERE HE DISCUSSES THIS ISSUE IN DETAIL..AND YAJURVED BHASYA BY SWAMI DAYANDA ALSO HAS DEALT THIS TOPIC WITH GREAT DETAIL ..AND I GAVE VERSES FROM THESE BOOKS ONLY AND VERIFIED BY MY ACHARYA..READERS CAN EVEN FIND A VEDIC ACHARYA AND DISCUSS THESE VERSES ,HE WILL GIVE U SAME MEANNG..BUT YES OFCOURSE BY OUR VERY OWN VERY KNOWLEDGABLE MR. JYOTISH ,HE HAS NOT READ ANY6 OF THESE BOOKS ,NOR DID HE CONSULT AANY VEDIC EXPERT OF ARYA SAMAJ OR ANY OTHER VEDIC ACHYA ,NOR DID HE ASK QUESTIONS FROM SWAMI RAMSWAROOP JI ,,DESPITE BEING MENTIONED THAT HE ANSWERS THE QUESTIONS IN WEBSITE CALLED VEDMANDIR.COM,,NOR HE CAN HIMSELF TRANSLATE THEM BEING A MEAT EATER(MEAT EATING PPL NOT TO BE OFFENDED ,VEGETARIAN DIET IS MUST FOR THOSE PRACTISING ASTANG YOG AND MEDIATING ON VEDIC HYMNS TO DRIVE THEIR MEANINGS,, THOUGH VEDAS RECOMMEND VEG DIET,I N GENERAL ).JYOTISH HAS HIS OWN VERSION OF SANATAN DHARMA AS MOST OF US WHO BELIEVE IN AGNIVEER AND VEDAS OR ARYA SAMAJ KNOWS THIS FACT .WITH OBVIOUSLY NO SUPPORT FROM VEDAS..NOW THIS DOG DESPITE OF BY GIVING IN DETAIL THE VERSES BOOKS OF ISCKON AND DAYANDA AND SWAMI RAM SWAROOP MAHARAJ IS CONTINOUSLY BARKING THAT HE IS YET TO FIND THE VERSE AGAINST ILLICT INTERCOURSE..WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE ..WHAT HE IS DOING HE IS PROPAGATING HIS OWN VIEWS IN NAME OF SANATAN DHARMA..SO MY ADIVISE TO BELEIVERS OF AGNIVEER OR ARYASAMAJIS IS AS AGNIVEER SAID DON’T GIVE IMPORTANCE TO SUCH DOGS AND PIGS UNLESS THEY QUOTE ANT VERSE VEDAS..SO BELIVERS OF AGNIVEER OR ARYASAMJIS ARE ADVISED TO GO THORUOGH BOOKS I HAVE MENTIONED , OR CONSULT YOUR NEAR ARYA SAMAJ MANDIR THEY WILL PROVIDE U WITH HELP FROM VEDIC EPERT OR LOOK FOR VEDIC ACHARYA (NOT FAKE ONE) OR ASK QUESTIONS FROM ..
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 3:57 pm
    
    SO ALL BELEIVERS JUST CONSULT THESE VEDIC EXPERTS AND LET THESE DOGS N PIGS BARK..AS THIS JYPTISH IS DOING AGAIN N AGAIN ,,THE ONLY THING HE IS NOT DOING THAT IS READING THESE BOOKS..HE WAS ARGUING WITH ME ON YAJURVED 8/10,,THAT MEANING IS PRESENT IN YAJURVED BHASYA BY OUR BELOVED DWAMI DAYANDA AND IN BRAHCAHRYA BOOK BY SWAMI RAM SWAROOP JI..GO THROUGH THESE BOOKS AND LET THESE DOGS BARK THEY ARE ONLY GOOD IN THIS THING .THEY WILL ONLY BARK BUT NEVER READ THESE TEXTS OR CONSULT VEDIC ACHRYA .AS V KNOW THEY R AFRAIID OF SWORD OF TRUTH,,WHICH WILL CUT THEIR SELF FORMED SANATAN DHARAM INTO PIECES .AFTER CONSULTING THESE BOOKS OR VEDIC EXPERT JUST IGNORE THIS DOG,,HE WAS ALSO ARGUING ON BEEF ISSUE WITH A LADY WHO BEILEVD IN VEDAS,WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE FROM VEDAS ,,NOW BEEF ARTICLE IS VERY OLD ONE ,HAD HE BEEN A REAL TRUTH SEEKER HE WOULD HAVE CONSULTED AND LEARNED VEDAS FROM VEDIC ACAHRYA OR INQUIRED ABOUT BEEF ISSUE BUT HE DIDN’T .THIS CLEARLY SHOWS HE IS SIMPLY A PSUEDO INTELLECTUAL WHO THINKS HAS GREAT KNOWLEDGE OF HINDU SCRIPTURES..BUT WHAT ACTUALLY HE IS DOING HE IS CONTINOUSLY LYING THAT HE HAS READ GEETA ,WHICH HE DINT OTHERWISE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ASKING SUCH STUPID THINGS DESPITE VERSES BEING PROVIDED FROM GITA AGAINST ILLICT INTERCOURSE WHICH HAS BEEN GIVEN BY SRILA PRABHUPAD IN HIS BOOK BHAGWAD GITA AS IT IS..AND ABOSOLUTELY HE HASN’T READ ANY OF VEDAS ,DESPITE GIVEN REFRENCES ,,AND I BET HE NEVER,,BECAUSE HIS OWN IDEAS WILL BE SMASHED BY VEDAS ,,ACTUALLY HE IS PROPAGATING IS OWN IDEAS IN NAME OF SANATAN DHARAM IN NAME OF VEDAS..SO KINDLY IGNORE THESE KIND OF DOGS AND PIGS THEY WILL NEVER READ VEDAS OR CONTACT TO ANY LEARNED ACAHRYA AND WILL KEEP SPREADING THIER OWN IDEAS IF SANATAN DHARAM AS IN MEDIVAL AGES PURANICS USED TO DO..LET THESE DOG BARK AND ASK THEY TO CITE ANY REFRENCE FROM VEDAS THEY WILL BE UNABLE TO DO ,AND IF THEY DO THEY WILL BE DOING IT FROM USUSAL CULPRITS BOOKS OF FOREIGN INVADERS GET THOSE VERSES VERIFIED BY LEARNED…
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 4:15 pm
    
    BELEIVERS JUST RELAX AND IGNORE THESE DOGS ,,U ALL CAN CLEALRY SEE BY DOG’S COMMENT THAT HE HASN’T READ ANY BOOKS OR VEDAS NORDIID HE EVER LEARNED IT FROM ANY ACHARYA ,NOR DID HE EVEN REFERRED TO BOOKS I MENTIONED .YES ONLY THING HE DID HE AGAIN INSTEAD OF READING AND DEBATING TO EXPERTS HE AGAIN VOMMITED HIS OWN VIEWS IN NAME OF SANATAN DHARMA AND SAYS HE IS YET TO FIND ANY VERSE AGAINST PRE MARITAL SEX ,DESPITE SO MUCH DETAILED VERSES AND REFRENCES FROM VEDAS AND NAME BOOKS N AUTHORS AND EXPERTS..IRONY IS EVERY RELIGION IN THIS WORLD FORBIDS IT EVEN ISLAM ALSO,BUT ONCE A DOG ALWAYS A DOG..SO JUST READ BOOKS AND IGNORE THIS DOG ,AGAIN HE WILL ONLY BE PUTTING HIS OWN VIEWS IN NAME OF SANATAN ON ISSUE OF INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE ..SO WHENEVR HE DOES THAT PLZ CONSULT PROVIDED INFO OR YOUR OWN VEDIC GURU ,AND LET HIM BARK N BARK . AND ALWAYYS REMEBER HE EVEN GOT INFURIATED AND FRUSTRATED ON BEEF ARTICLE BY AGNIVEER HE WAS THERE ALSO DOING SAME THING IN NAME OF HIS OWN SANATAN DHARAM WITHOUT SUPPORT FROM VEDAS ..BUT AGNIVEER JUST IGNORED THE PIG,,SO NOW ONWARDS NEVER TAKE HIS COMMNETS SERIOULY ,,HE HAS REVEALED HIS TRUE MENTAL STATE AND PERSONALITY HIMSELF ,BY BEING AGAINST BEEF BAN,,SO U KNOW HE FALLS IN CATEGORY OF PIGERAL..SO HE IS TO BE IGNORED AND BOOKS WRITTEN BY VEDIC EXPERTS AND VEDIC ACAHRYAS ARE TO BE CONSULETED AND FOCUSSED UPON FOR TRUE SANATN DHARAM..LET THE DOGS AND PIGREALS BARK…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 6:22 pm
    
    AND BELEVERS ALSO NOTE THIS POINT , A SENSIBLE HUMAN BEING WHEN PROVIDED REFRENCES READS THEM,BUT WHAT HIGLY KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON CALLED JYOTISH VIJAY ARYA DID ,HE POURED HIS VOMIT ,WITHOUT EVEN PURCHASING THOSE BOOKS OR CONTACTING LEARNED ACHARYA OF ARYA SAMAJ ,AND WROTE ALL HIS FILTHY ANTI VEDIC VIEWS ..THE DOG AGAIN N AGAIN SAYS I DOUBT VEDAS FORBID ILLICIT INTERCOURSE ,WHEN REFUTED AND PROVIDED DEATILED VERSES AND SOURCES ,DOESN’T READ THEM BEFORE COMMENTING ,BUT AGAIN PRESENTS HIS FILTHY IDEAS IN NAME OF HINDUISM AND SAYS I WILL CHECK THE AUTHENTICITY..OH REALLY !!! WHEN BOOKS WERE MENTIONED ,Y DIDN’T U READ THEM AND CHECKED BEFORE COMMENTING..THE PIGERAL IS TRYING TO PLAY A PSYCHOLOGICAL GAME OVER HERE ,THAT THIS TOPIC IS DOUBTFUL,,HE WILL NEVER READ THOSE BOOKS ,NOR HE WILL EVER CONSULT ANY LEARNED VEDIC EXPERT ,,HE WILL ONLY LIE ..AND VOMIT HIS FILTHY VIEWS ,,DESPITE DISCLAIMER PROVIDED AND BOOKS MENTIONED,,HE ISN’T A TRUTH SEEKER ,,HE IS JUUST SEEKING ACCEPTANCE OF DHARMA WHICH HE HAS CREATED ,,LIKE MOST PIGERALS DO..
  - harsh singh March 21, 2016 At 6:37 pm
    
    IRONY IS HE IS SAYING HE HAS DOUBT ABOUT PRE MARITAL SEX BEING BANNED IN VEDAS,AND HE WILL CHECK,NOT REALIZING THIS THING HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN BRAHMCHARYA CHAPTER OF SATYARTH PRAKASH BY SWAMI DAYANDA SARASWATI WHICH IS AVAILBLE IN FREE PDF DOWNLOAD ON THIS WEBSITE ,,IN SATYARTH PRAKASH SWAMIJI ,HAS CLEARLY SAID VEDAS ARE AGAINST INTERCOURSE WITHJOUT MARRIAGE IN CHAPTER OF BRHAMCAHRYA..THIS IS WHAT PIGERALS DO ,THEY TRY TO ESCAPE FROM CLEAR EVIDENCES .
  - jyothish vijay March 23, 2016 At 1:18 am
    
    @Harsh singh
    
    Sorry…i couldn’t read through your entire content….but i got the gist of it
    
    And I am also sorry….despite several abuses or insult I will not downgrade my religion by stooping to your level…
    
    I will get back to you on the Vedic verses u have quoted…..i have said so…..and i will…i need time
    
    And for your information…i don’t respond to “interpretations ” given by anybody…..i read the scriptures myself or i will accept translation (if its fitting my logic)
    
    Last time….u quoted yaj 8-10 as if against premarital sex……and i gave the correct meaning to show that it doesn’t say what u said it did
    
    Don’t try to hide that within a big reply…
    
    I support KOL….because it is a protest against a much more sinister sin happening in our country….vandalism…or moral gundaism…..
    
    This time around u have given lot of verses for me to refer…..it is too cumbersome…..plz if u can point out 1 or 2 most important vedic verse…..and i will get back on it during weekends !
    
    But it has to be a direct verse from a veda….not from some authors book !
    
    If u do that…..and i don’t reply by the next weekend (following your reply),i will conceede…..or u can presume “victory”
    
    But lets be ery clear (and do not try to bury this info)….i don’t support pre marital or extra marital sex…..all i say is that it is unlikely that vedas declare them to be a sin
    
    LET ME ASK U THIS…..lets agree (for arguments sake)..that pre marital sex is AGAINST Vedas……Can u tell me what do u mean , when u say something is “against” Vedas?
    
    I mean if someone does something “against” Vedas….what will be the repurcussion that he will have to face?
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 9:58 am
    
    @jyotish, u r again doing same thing,,again n again ,not reading the refrences and writing nonsense ..yajurved 8/10 verse interprtetation,,is not mine ,its one by maharishi swami dayananda.present in yajurved bhasya and also by swami ram swaroop maharaj .and again u r trying to pour your own shit in name ofvedas..if u havent reffered to those books y r u again n again commenting that u dont think vedas are aginst pre marital sex and blah balah…firstly this…website is inspired by teachings and books of swami dayanda and arya samaj..and other scholars of arya samaj..i honestly provided all books and authors names.. u said u gave me correct meaning and it doesnt say what i said about it..either u r too dumb or u dont know english ,when i m again n again telling that its given by swami dayanda and swami ram swaroop maharaj , then y r u opening your filthy mouth again n again………………………..and my job was toprovide verses which i did with interpretation and authors name..its your job to read them ,i will not again n agian keep providing u with verses..and what the helldou mean that verse shouldbe from veda , not from authors book..again a stupid statement ,all verses were from vedas in books written by authors and their explaination was given in books ,theyy have not created their own verses..and i ont need to learn meaning of those verses from u ,,because for me u r not a scholar of par excellence like dayanada and swami ram swaroop ji who have given their entire life to vedas and got meanings of them by practising yog ,they were mantra drishtas and it requires hard penance ..if u have your own interpretations what u need to do is to argue with authors or agniveer or arya samaj research wing ,or pt mahendra pal arya not me ,first provide your qualificatons and your eating habbits to them they will organize a debate and argue with themand prove them wrong..when these seers declare that illicit sex is banned in vedas..
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 12:24 pm
    
    and y r u uttering nonsense again n again….if u got prblm call for press confrence challenge agniveer or swami ram swaroop maharaj .or any arya samaj or vedic scholar who gave those meanings and prove them wrong ,,just by typing that u ont beleive what these ppl say doesn’t mean u have defeated me…now mr jyotish ..if u are of atleast decent intelligence get these points in your brain crystal clear ………………………………………………………………………………………….
    1)i was not talking to u,nor i m intrested in talking to u.
    2) u said that u have not read vedas ,so whats your opinion on dharma ,i dont give a damn about it..
    3) u asked for verses which forbid pre marital sex a gave in detail all verses honestly and with clear refrences both of english and hindi books..
    4)u say that u dont belive them.,,thats not my problem..nobody is forcing u,to belive..
    5)i m not the one who will win or loose ,no matter what interpretation u give to those verses ,because for me u r not eligible to interpret or comment in vedas ,i have faith in those seers and my guru swami ramswaroop ji ..so no matter what u interpret or read or take meaning of those verses ,it doesn’t matter to me. u r free tobelive or interpret or do whatever u want ,for me meaning of those verses will remain that only because they have been done by vedic seers ,not a meat eater and beef supporter like u..
    6) yajurved 8/10 meaning has been given by swami dayanda in yajurved bhasya andby swami ram swaroopmaharaj and vedic seers of gurukul kangari mahavidyalya,,not by me..what u gave was also right but it was half meaning not full..so just by barking again n again won’t cover this fact that ,that meaning is not my creation but those of highly kowledegable persons and experts ,who have much experience and knowledge than u..
    7)just by typing i doubt ,i doubt ,will not change the fact that ,according to interpreattion of these experts ,vedas forbid it
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 5:28 pm
    
    8)what do u mean by covering up? meaning of yajurved 8/10 is present in yajurved bhasya by dayanda saraswati and in brahmcharya book by ram swaroop ji..yourinterpretation is just half and transliteration is ifferent thing ,purport of that hymn is a different thing..purport describes the essence and realmessage of that verse and that has been given by dayanda and most vedic scholars agree with it who also get same revelation when they mediate on them ,..
    9) only liars are loosers..i gave honestly all references and material for each verse ,,if somebody finds something else in these books then i would be a looser ,because then that woul mean those purports are my own imagination..which they aren’t they are written and present there inthose books by experts.
    10) if u dont believe these authors u ebate wuth them..
    11) to prove me wrong there are 2 ways either u prove that ,refrences i provided where fake ,and this meaning isn’t present in them(which isn’t the case) or if first fails and u find exactly what i said then second way is call for challenge agniveer,swami ram swaroop ji ,research wing of arya samaj, dr tulsi ram,pt devi chand and gurukulkangari mahavidyalya,mahendra pal ji and various vedic experts those who gave those meanings and have debate with them and prove them wrng in front of whole world ,,then u woul be taken seriously.
    12)who is the one not refering to those material? whoisnot openly challenging agniveer? sowhois trying to cover up?
    13) i mnot interested in your interpretation of those veic verses ,so even if u firther post them ,it makes no difference to me .for memeaning of those will remain that only until unless u prove all these scholars wrong,
    14) this is my last comment i will not be responding to u..dont take it as your victory ,for me u will be victorious only when u prove all these veic experts wrog infront of whole world.
    15) what repurcussions one faces if he is against vedas ,noboy knows ,neither vedas…
  - jyothish vijay March 23, 2016 At 7:48 pm
    
    @Harsh
    One more thing….i am a more true to the spirit follower of sanatan dharma than you yourself are
    
    You are abusive, arrogant and aggresive….and that is not what i want others to think about my dharma
    
    I am a meat eater…..and as such raja gunas should be more prominent in me….but u despite being a vegetarian has absolutely very little sattva….and that is a very poor example of our philosophies at work….Think about it !
  - jyothish vijay March 23, 2016 At 6:56 pm
    
    @ Harsh
    Whether u reply to me or not is your choice. But whether i am right or wrong…think it for once in your head…You are just replying on a blog and yet u r easily provoked, u get angry far too soon and u use swear words also..
    
    All I have done is to converse with you…even if u may feel that i was intruding , u could choose not to reply oratleast choose not to loose your temper….u chose anger and swearing instead
    
    Even if i am a bad person or even if the previous person u were swearing was a Muslim……if u knew your scriptures somewhat (unless u r a blind follower of some guru and do not try to use your knowledge in “elevating” yourself)….u would have known that we are all different manifestations of the same truth….I am guided by this fact and it is the reason why a person like me (who is argumentative, irritating and afraid) maintains my calm atleast online !!
    
    If u watch Agniveer’s replies to people opposing him…u will see that he too maintains calm and dignity….his weapon is knowledge andwords…..not the scare tactics of swearing done by you
    
    Now the response to your references:
    RIGVED 1.179.2; RIGVED 3.8.4; RIGVED 3.55.16; YAJURVEDM 6.24; YAJURVED 8.1; …..>all these verses do not talk about extra marital or premarital sex; not to mention that eventhough u say that u r posting a vedic verse, u r actually posting from a book by your guru and from veda bhasya (and not veda itself)
    
    That leaves u with YAJUVED 23.21, Yaj 8-3 and yaj 8-10
    
    Yaj 8-10: i have already replied
    Now here is the actual verse yajurveda 8-10
    
    agne patnivansajurdevena twastha somam pib swaha ll
    prajapati vrishoshi retodi reto mayi dehi prajapathesthe vrishno retodasho retodhamasiya ll
    
    Anybody with knowledge in sanskrit or maybe even hindi can understand that this verse is not about extra or pre marital sex.
    
    You talk about purpot given by your gurus…..folowing them blindly makes u a follower of your gurus and not of actual sanatan dharma
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 8:55 pm
    
    and regarding transliteration of rigved mantras u mentioned their transliteration and purport has been given in satyarth praksh and rigved bhashya by swami dayanda ..
    what u are doing since onemonth only barking like a dog ..who r u to call transliteation and purports provided by these vedic seers ..if u disagree then its ok ,its your prblm ,and if u r such a high vedic scholar then y are u barking like a dog of shit over here ,,y u r being an eunuch ..if u think u r the best knower if vedas ,vedic sanskrit and u r mantra drishta of these hymns i provided then comeout in open challenge agniveer ,arya samaj scholar , refute them .but also provide your qualification that u r a meat eater ,which disqualifies u even to be a diciple of ny vedic school leave translietrating or medaiting.. like a dog u rjust presenting the actaual verse and blatantly writing that they dont forbid illicit sex,,whereas unlike u swamidayanda splits the actual verse and gives meaning to each word of devnagari script and then provides purports in his works and those translietration is also done by dr tulsi ram ,and harisharan vidyalankar and gurukul kangari vedic experts .go and challenge allof them .stop being a og who isjust barking here ..as u keep doing your nautanki .now i will do same to u .until u make all these scholars surrender to your great knowldge ofvedas which u have gained by consuming meat and supporting beef .when u r able to convince all these experts that they all did wrong transliteration then talk to me .otherwise i mnot intrested in sanatn dharma of a dog from kerela who supports beef ..and take a look again with your eyes open
    YAJURVEDM 6.24- AGNERVO’PANNAGRHASYA SADASI SADAYAMI NDRAGNYOR-BHAGADEHI STHA MITRAVARUNA-YORBHAGADHEYI STHA VISVESAM DEVANAM BHAGADHEYI STHA.AMURYA UPA SURYE YABHIRVA SURYAH SAHA TA NO HINVANTVADHVARAM
    transliteration- brahmacharini ,i settle you in the home of unmarried brahmachariin marriage according to your…
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 9:38 pm
    
    just by saying that point is not in vedas doesnt mean its not there ,,first and allyour bullshit explaination of lust n blah blah ,,keep upto yourself ..u have freedom to put your opinion ,but what ur doing ur imposing your opinion on me without refuting these seers nor agniveer who promotes and also himself believes in them and he himself says that vedas strictly recommend against intercourse without marriage..y your opinions are targeted to me .if u want to put opinion do it in comment box , y u address me in your coments who r u ,to say others belief is wrong ,if they are wrong then prove these great scholars wrong openly ,whose books i have mentioned ,,even i mentioned website of one of them.,,and y shouldi comply toyour opinion who is beef supporter a meat eater ,when i know such a person isnot eligible tobe even be disciple of ny vedic school or guru,and what is brahmcharya i dont need to learn from u ,i have a book onthis by my swamiji whose name and book imentioned and so ihave also seen in by great maharishi swami dayanda..by a meat eater barking that this topic is not present in vedas doesnt mean it becomes so..that person is commenting who is not eligible toget admission in vedic school leave mediating on mantra and becoming a mantra drishta .
    if uhave any personal thoughts that cannot be challeged ,and u can express here or anywhere u like ,,but dont impose on me,,to impose them u have to refute all seers like dayananda ,ram swaroop,agniveer ,mahendrapal,siddhalankar an others allofthem,entire research wing of arya samaj,otehrwise your comments r merely bullshit and best for throwing in trash, and being a meat eater u r just not eligible for such task of refuting them..and when u do so(in front whole world ) then u address me and then i will follow your sanatan dharma(yes a dharma formed by meat eater whowasn’t even eligible for vedic school leave aside becoming a mantra drista)and i dont belong to your dharma of pigrals and meateaters
  - jyothish vijay March 24, 2016 At 11:25 pm
    
    @ Harsh
    
    Also realise what u r doing
    
    U said something (that pre marital sex is against Vedas)….i asked for a reference…..u gave a verse from Yajurved (just a numer and an interpretation)….i then posted the original verse…..from which it could be seen that it had nothing like what u told…..now when i pointed u that, u r saying that what i said is correct…..but it also has an interpretation as given by your guru……this basically means that the stuff u said is actually there only in an interpretation and not actually in the Veda
    
    {To anyone who may ever read this…Anybody can check it out and decide for themselves ….and if u don’t know sanskrit u can refer to the translations given by various scholars…..I won’t state any names…..choose someone you believe and look at their interpretation}
    
    Now u r asking me to argue it out with them? Whats my need? My dialogue was with you…..if u can’t answer my questions or if u think if there is anything wrong with my translations….u could say so specifically
    
    I am also ready toaccept your interpretations…..if u r ready to anser some simple follow up questions……because obviously what u say is not directly in the vedas….and your interpretations give rise to several inconsistancies in the real sanatan dharma philosophy….(maybe not in your fake sanatan dharma which prmotes vioence)
    
    Asking your gurus is not acceptible…my dialogue is with you…..you can’t comein with swooping interpetations which go against actual translation ….which are also given by vedic experts…..and then choose not to explain….when u do that ….people can see the implications !!!
  - harsh singh March 25, 2016 At 12:06 am
    
    just by you r saying that despite eating meat u have bcomeeligible for studying vedas ,doesnt mean u r ,,whole vedic scholars and experts no that ,,without guru an penance u r not even eligible tocomment on vedas and literal transliteration doesnt serves any purpose ,trure meaning is revealed only to mantra dristas ,which u r not ,,unless u provethose veic experts and make them surrender and acccept that your translation and purport is right u r just a og who is barking ,,its u who is till now unable toa put a video where u have defeated all those experts ,,and if u have your own interpretation orpurports thats your problem,,and i dont need to know about santan dharam by a dog ..who only barks but never bites ,,if u dont have balls to defeat those experts then dont act likean impotent and pour your nonsense here ,when i have clearly stated that i follow thosebooks and experts , tehto prove me wrong u have to prove them wrong and that toopublically ,those are not my creations but thoseof experts ,,and for meu r a not even eligible tocomment on vedas being a meat eater and i m not intersted in sanatan dharm of eunuch who has no balls to have debate openly with these scholars this shows u r clealry escaping and u r afraid of being exposed and defeated ,,and by saying that when i willmeet i wont ask the about blah blah simply shows that ur know u stand nowhere in front of these scholars and i also gave verse called 6.24,,who ahve not translated it ,though it clealry bans pre marital sex and every great translator has translated it even agniveer also in vedas he was selling,,so y dont u have deabte and prove agniveer wrong ,he will arrange deabte with that scholar ,,no use of arguing me ,when i said that i follow this books i m not an epert,,no matter what translation u give remains wrong to me,or u prove the authors i follow as wrong publically and this can be done by organizing a debate with agniveer ,he has openly claimed for any debate ,its eunuch
  - jyothish vijay March 26, 2016 At 2:04 am
    
    @harsh
    
    i don’t say that pre marital ror extra marital sex is allowed or anything like it…..i only say its not given DIRECTLY in the Vedas……but if u accept the philosophies given in vedas one can surely conclude that pre martial and extramarital sex are negative actions…
    
    to explain to another person why hinduism or sanatan dharma is in principle against pre marital or extra marital sex i need only the philosophy and priciples to do that…..and i a sure when swami dayanand saraswati also tells this he too must be applying the same principles and philosophies……its a different thing altogether to say this verse is the one against pre marital or extra marital sex…..thats an argument the muslims use with quran….vedas do not do that
    
    i am sure in the matter of pre marital and extra marital sex we both are on the same side….there is only a subtle difference in what i am saying…..if only u could see it
    
    i understand that u want to convey that vedas very explicitly (as if its a very direct literal sense) prohibit pre marital and extra marital sex…..thats not true…..and we shouldn’t be afraid to state it so
    
    vedas says that “being in the control of ones senses is bad”…..”being controlled by lust is bad”……i don’t remember the exact verse….but ts there somewhere……why can’t u build your argument based on that ….?
    
    it goes without saying…..even sex within marriage …..where u remain within the clutches of lust too much is also as bad as extra marital or pre marital sex
    
    the most difficult question is to know…..what is ‘too much”?
  - harsh singh March 26, 2016 At 5:15 am
    
    now what message ofthat verse and that too in which different context ,he wants toconvey message dependonauthor,,for example books i gave u are on , social context,, but i alsohave a book on yajurved which is fully based on spritual quest and subtle yagna of body,,so it depends on us what we want to know from vedas ,is it about action or some inner science ,,u willbe amazed toknowthat eeven in social context entire messages change ..for example i gave u meaning of 23,21 that its asks king topuish ppl indulging in promiscuity,adultery and premarital sexualconuct inshort remove anykind of wantoness from society, (most veic experts books will give u same meaning) ,but u will be amazed that same verse also says, tomarried couple .that a married wife should open her thigs to her husband so that he can sow his seedin your sacred womb to produce new life ,soa verse incontext of punishment turns tobe entirely ,a beautiful message for couples making procreation a sacred act..an thenthere is of corse inner meaning toit..so if tommorow suppose head of state punishes,ppl indulging inillicit sex ,it will turn out to be merit point for him,though nation wide protest willbe there,but he willbewinner insituution and entire nation against this dharmic action, will .be at fault andwill be weaving its own web of destruction,,s o this is my stand onvedas,,…….now questionishow toknow most of meanings(nooneknowsecept god entire meanig) answer is thorugh guru,who hashimself attained samadhi and realizw godbyastang yog and penance ,ony heby his yogic powers can see the meanigs of these verses by deep medittion and contemplation,beacuse each hymnof vedaare cosmic vibrations towhicha yogi connects,,and once u learn it with guru and practice astang yog and mediate onmatras u willbeicovering new meanings..of each hymn and giving it to each aspect oflife (most of them) imnaive tovedas , u ask whatever ,anykind of question regarding vedas at http://www.vedmandir.com and read his
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 9:17 pm
    
    (just a part of transliteration)
    yajurved 8.10 – upayamagrhito syadityebhyastva.visna urgayaisa te somastam raksava matva dabhan
    trasliteration – o brhamchari of aditya order,selected and accepted by me for marriage ,you are now for lifetime boned and consecrated in sacred code of marriage for a life time .( dr tulsi ram,pt devichand and swami dayanda)
    and so on matter is very long and deeply dealt with in allbooks i provided .but as usual u have ypur own dharma u never purchased read and came incontact with any vedic expert ,u only ate meat , by eating meat u r trying to comment on vedas for which u r not even eligible ,how can there be a dialogue with u.and if u claim tobe scholar then fight and debate with agniveer ,,ram swaroop,dr tulsi ram ,then u would be taken seriously..now look mr jyotish this is last time i m talking to u in soft tone i dint give transliteration or purport by my own,i gave transliteration and their purports by vedic seers who have spent theirlives on vedas and r still doing it.i have faith in them..if u wat toprove me wrong u will have tomake them surrender to your interpretations and purports ,just by typing your own thoughts doesnt prove that u r greater scholar than them..or those hymns doesnt mean what has been said about them by these scholars .or even their transliteration.even correctranslietration isnt enough one has tobe mantra drihsta whcih they were and u r not .i m finally saying i mnot intrested in your dharma of eunuchs ,if your dharma which u claim tobe true is right andall these scholars dharma is false then uwill have to refute them.just barking like dog and repeating same point again n again despite somany detailed explaination and source and name of experts who are champions of vedas ,doesnt prove that u r right..to prove yourself right u will have to prove them wrong all of them thewhole research wing of arya samaj,gurukulkangari and aginiveer and other vedic experts.now iwont reply to u anymore.
  - harsh singh March 23, 2016 At 11:08 pm
    
    and there u are ,now u have revealed to me your complete personality, that u dont need a guru to understand vedas,,nobody on this earth can learn vedas without guru,only knowledgable guru can help to understand vedas and unfold its meanings by practice of penance of yog ,merely knowledge of day today sanskrit is not at all enough to decode vedas ,vedic sankrit is different normalsanskrit is different so stop your bullshit of that even knowledge of hindi blah blah ,,now u r totally revealed yourself ,,u r nothing but a some self proclaimed scholar of vedas ,who utters this nonsense that he doesnt need a guru to learn vedas which can only be learnt by help and blessingsofguru and ishwar with hard penance ,not by someone sitting in room ,eating meat and then making some of his own phylosphy by half baked knowldge of sanskrit on vedas and then pouring his shit in name of sanatan dharam..eligiblity to decode them hasalready been discussed various times inthis website ,,and if u thinku canever learn vedas of yourown ,, then thats your own though ,and nothing can be done about it..my stance is very clear for me u aren’t qualified to comment on vedas,all nonsense u r stating thats selfmade ,for me meaning of allverses i gave in detail are that only and thats my constitutional freedom and im free to follow them n state them anywhere,all refrences of each verse hasbeen provided ,its upto u to read them or not ..or agree with them,,,but to prove me wrong u have to prove entire vedic fraternity ,i have mentioned in front of whole world with clealry stating your qualifications and fact that u r meat eater n beef supporter,,now since u said u ont need any guru to learn vedas and also fact u r meat eater , its no use talking to u ,,u r free to express your opinion not toimposeon me by addressing again n again my name ,becuase i have expressed mine ,that to with evidence and refernces of vedic experts ,,talk on day whenu have refuted them publically.
  - harsh singh March 24, 2016 At 12:04 am
    
    if despite making clear my thoughts about u , your eligiblity to comment and, support for my each statements of each verse by vedic experts whose names and works have been cited , if u further comment by addressing me without reading thosematerialand rebutting all of them publically in front of press confrence,face to face rebuttal should be there ,,then now i will be very harsh in my replies ,,because u r not expressing your opinion u r imposing, n that too on matter in which u r not even eligible to comment, if u want to express your opinion express it in comment box ,not on my conversation with someone else, u r free toyour belief , so am i . yes u can impose your belief only the day that fraternity which has been mentioned surrenders to your great knowledge publically with face to face rebuttals in front of whole world ,and each one of them accepts your opinion,then u r to be taken seriously,,before u doit imnot intrestee in talking to u nor replying u, because have made my stance with clear refrences and dont need to learn sanatan dharam from meat eater and beef supporter, u have diffrence put it in comment box ,u want to talk to me talk from refrences i have provided or by rebutting all vedic experts and arya samaj research wing publically on face to face debate..
    i wont accept your views just because u r saying so or inteprteting verses by your own knwlg when i know u r not even eligible to take admission in a vedic school by virtue of being a meat eater..so plz stop talking to me ..i fu do without rebutting all of them ,then u r responsible for yourinsult becuse u r imposing not expressing..if u say u r epressing your thoughts ,sorry imnot intrested ,doitin comment box,dont address me.
  - harsh singh March 24, 2016 At 1:15 am
    
    an what kind of nonsense u r stating that i mnot providing verse from veda,,these authors have transiliterated vedic verses and given their purport only , they have not created their own verses, so stop making fool over here tat these are not vedic verses ,,i think u dint read when i was giving yajurveda hymns i gave devnagri scripts (in english transliteration) then i provided purport of them by authors,,of rigved mantras i didnt give because they are present insatyarth praksh so no use of repeating them again n again,,and stupidity ur doing is u r arguing on 8.10 ,ididnt provide the devnagari script beacuse u already did it inyour previous rely , i just gave u purport ofit by swami dayanda and arya samaj scholars and my guru swami ram swaroop (ppl u have not rebutted), and yes i dint provide devnagariscript forothers because it becomes a cumbersome task toput first transliteration then translation thenpurport but then i provided u with refrences of books inwhcih whatever u r demanding is present with each wordof devnagari script split and padarth given and thenbhavarth in dayanda bhasya and sidhalankar bhasya .its u whodidnt read themagain barked like a dog showing your true character..and yes i m arrogant , sattva is absent in me ,,but i m not a lier or self proclaimed genius like u ,,who comments on things forwhich he is not even eligible ,,then pours his shit phylosophies in name of vedas for which he was not even eligible and that too without rebutting scholars face to face..for me ur like a ba english student who he commenting on kircchoff’s voltage law for which he is not even eligible..unless u read this book and defeat all these scholars u r just a idiot ,living in his own illusionary notion of dharma..and u r free to doit ,imnoone tojudge that or comment on it ,, but same applies to u,,
    either u refute these books in front face to face inpublic these experts or stop conversing with me..u r not conversing u r imposing .
  - harsh singh March 24, 2016 At 1:28 am
    
    and just by saying i m argumentative does’nt makeu a vedic genius..when a ba english student argues on kirchoff’s voltage law (taught in electronics engineering) its not called an argument its called quibling , just as a dog barks when elephant roams proudly in street, u r not even eligible to get admission in a veic school or to become a disciple of ny vedic sage , leave becoming a mantra drishta ,then who r u to give blatantl statements ,,or rebute all of themthen come rebuttal shoulbe face toface inpublic with clear description of your qualification and fact u r meat eater n beef supporter. then they accept u and declares u to be winner ,,like adi shankarcharya used to defeat jains,, then you r eligible toimpose your thoughts , just by typing that those verses doesn’t talk about illicit sex ,doesn’t become a gospel of truth.
  - harsh singh March 25, 2016 At 12:12 am
    
    till now u have not made any progressin conversation , u r again n again talking same nonsense ,sounding utter stupid ,any person reading this could make out that u r just barking like dog,,just because u say u r eligible , doesn’t make u ,,all vedic scholars know that u r not..until know u have not been unable to rebute agniveer publically ,face to face ..so no question of accepting your nonsense fake and impotent sanatan dharam
  - harsh singh March 25, 2016 At 1:19 am
    
    @jyotish,here u will find whole thing whatever u r demanding .
    
    1)https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=dmVkaWNncmFudGgub3JnfHd3d3xneDoxMzVjMzNmNDgwZGIzZWYw
    
    2)file:///C:/Users/HP/Downloads/R1sSjG_eLb_sub_406_yajurveda(elibrary.thearyasamaj.org).pdf
    
    of others i have hard copies..
    3) verses are 6.24
    6.25, 8.1 ,.8.3, 8.10, 8.48 , 9.26, 11.49, 11.55, 11.58., 11.59, 11.60, 11.71, 11.74, 12.56,12.64,
    4) other authors soft copies not available best one is that of sidhanlakar , but unavailble..
    5) and stop this nonsense of translation, literal translation doesn’t serve any purpose , the esoteric meanings of those verses are realized by deep mediation and yog to vedic seers ,they don’t express thier own views in purports ,by yogic drishti man in samadhi realizes these meanings for which u r not eligible ,and all those u do this give almost same meanings ,little bit discripancies can be thier but most of cases its same ..
    6) now that ihave provided crystal clear books with actual verses ,,with transliteration,,if u have descripancies ,,next time there should be video ofu defeating these seers face to face and verse by verse in public..otheriwse nouse ofarguing withme if u haven’t defeated themtill thenmeaning of those verses remains same for me..
  - harsh singh March 25, 2016 At 8:37 pm
    
    @jyotish, sorry i didn’t read your comment carefully , that u have daughter n son in law ,,which means u r much ,much older than me i m just 24 years old ,..so i take my words back ,and apolize for misbehaving,,
    sir i have provided pdf books of my sources and i follow them only,,i f u have discripancies ,agniveer will organize a debate with them,, and sir ,this is fact everone is not eligible to translate or comment in vedas ,, it has a very strict coe and years of penance and self controlis required , a drunkard ,non vegetarians a,drug addicts aren;t eligible for that task ,they are even not eligible to be disciple of veic guru and recive diksha ,,so it woul be better u contact pplor agniveer for detailed analysis ..but those verses are translate as its by all vedic scholars and i follow them,,sorry for misbehaving,,look above again to download book ,u willfind alll thing u demanded
  - harsh singh March 26, 2016 At 2:20 am
    
    @ jyotish sir , sorry i don’t talk to elders in that way ,,ididn’t knew u r way much elder and it was utterly disgraceful for me to talk like that ,, i m trained not to use harsh words while conversing with elders or woman..so remove from your mind all that nonsense i wrote,,and just go though links i have provided , download them and u can see for yourself , that whatever u were demanding ,veda verse , its translation both in english n hindi with purport are there..
    some additional complementary verses , u may look in them are 30.5 , 30.6 , 30.9..these alongwith , previous verses ,will prove vedas do forbid illicit intercourse and its uty of king to remove wantoness from society (23.21,30.9) ( accorinding to these ,vedic experts).
  - j Vij April 17, 2016 At 12:56 pm
    
    @Harsh
    
    plz give the name of your guru and the website…..and the verse which he says is against premarital sex….i will give that a try when i have time…the website has now become different and i can’t find any previous references
    
    PS: personally i don’t think it is going to be much use…..because my stand is this-premartial sex and even marital sexual acts all wherever the indulging person indulges in them in a way to be overwhlemed by the emotions will set u away from your ultimate goal…….thats my knowledge….and the same have been repeated by many gurus as welll
    
    all i differ is that the said verses that u quote…..do not speak against premarital sex……there are other verses against premarital and marital sex (both)….but the verses posted by you do not say it…..this stand is supported by the “gurus” i speak to…..but i can’t give an online reference for those verbally delivered advises
  - Harshvardhan Singh April 19, 2016 At 3:03 am
    
    HELLO JYOTISH SIR, like i said sir one message is conveyed by various verses of vedas provided the topic u r looking to..now it depends on author which verse or verses he uses to convey that message,as vedic verses r coded they can be interperted in many manners depending upon the topic weather its mystique or spritual or social context,,u can spend entire life o one verse unfolding all its meaning stiil u wont be able to do it..thats beauty of vedas they offer answers to infinite things n possiblities ,even the brahm rishis cannot phatom all in vedas as they r eternal words..
    so for exampleu take two different authors an read their translations and make a list of verses which they are quoting against premarital sex or sex in marrriage or extra marital sex,,u will find a range of verses say author X uses verse 123 , author y uses 356,AUTHOR Z USES 289 sou willfind a range of them so if u collect all of them range comes to be {1235689} thisis what i was saying,,,
    i have ev found somemore very insightful verses and i will provide u range of verses and also link ofbooks which u can download and read and discusswith your gurus an i will alsoprovide u with my guru website..ok..but ihumbly request u to read yajurved bhasya by dayanana and all 4 vedas bhasya by pt jaydev iwillprovie u link u will get verses against this .and fewof them i will discuss here ,as i already provided u verses i will add some more over here …
    i urge u to plz read chapter 30 of yajurved , that chapter discusses the kind ofppl which are desirous i society and prays to god toproduce suchppl and eliminate a certain kind of and so it also asks to king to eliminate them ,one of such ppl are adulterer both man n woman..
    yajurved 30.5
    yajurved 30.6(in this verse word kumariputram comes ,and it prays that such ppl are not born hence pre marital sex is forbidden ,as there where no condoms at inception)
    yajurved 30.8
    yajurved 30.9(this is very important verse)
    yajurved 30.22
    u also stated too much of marital sex ,yes that is also condemned ,in verse yajurved 8.3..
    yajurved 23.21 asks for punishment of fornicators.(but same verse changes its message when discussed in context of sexual act of couple ,refer jaydev book)
    yajurved 23.30 and 23.31 are very enlightning verses against adultery by king ( as well as husband,because husband is regarded asking of house and wife as queen)
    also i urge u to read chapter 11,6,8 ,30 of yajurved bhasya by dayanda saraswati .completely(plz)..
    regarding pre marital sex vedas dont say like this ” thou shall not commit pre marital sex”
    its not vedic way,vedic wisdom is like mathematics to be learned logially an practiced in daily life v first learnprinciples then apply in evryday issues and prblms .dharma is very wide unending both in breadth and depth and is very easy an very subtle also..so regaring pre marital sex as far as i have read the vedic way is it will teach u 1+1= 2..now this ishow v find in maths ,no maths book will say like this 1+1 =2 and any other figure is wrong , book will only teach u that 1+1=2 ,now in further learning concepts or applying in prblms if v use other than 2 it automatically becomes wrng if its a problem and false concept if its a theory ,same is case with pre marital sex in vedas u wont find word like thou shall not commit pre sex,,but it will say that fact in a logical way by addressing whenver two unwed ppl will be asked for marrying in vedas they will be addressed as celibates ,,means celibates of certain age will be asked together to come and start grihasth dharma.onemore point i wouldlike to add as per my reading and understaning ,whenever sex is discussed in vedas it is always addressed for procreation and among husband any wife not other wise ( its like saying vedas like any maths book declare 1+1=2) ,vedas do discuss sexual activity but u will notice it is always declared btween couples ,thats y i m against concept of niyog this is where dayanda ji made mistake he devated from basic concept of arthmetic(just anamoly) and dveloped a theory where 1+1becomes something else hence for me it becomes false concept therefore meaning of those verses he addresse as niyog one must be something else thats my approach of vedas , i take it as maths book..
    now i will provide u link of books i decipher plz consult all of them..
    1)https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=dmVkaWNncmFudGgub3JnfHd3d3xneDoxMzVjMzNmNDgwZGIzZWYw
    
    2)http://hinduebooks.blogspot.in/2011/03/four-vedas-sanskrit-text-with-hindi.html(all 4 vedas r there by this author)
    3)http://elibrary.thearyasamaj.org/elib/book/eLb_319
    here is list of old verses i gave,
    RV 3/55/16
    AV 2..36.1
    AV 2.30.2
    AV 1.14.1
    YV 6.24
    YV 6.25
    YV 8.1
    YV 8.3
    YV 8.48
    YV 11.49
    YV 11.55
    YV 11.58
    YV 11.59
    YV 11.60
    YV 11.71
    
    plz for each verse decipher to all books i provided..
    
    my guru name is swami ram swaroop ji maharaj..
    his website is http://www.vedmandir.com
    u can discuss with him any query reagrding technicality of translation andpurport by droping a question anhe willsurely replz ..he replies within few days..
    
    by your comment what i got is that the net consensus amomg us is that
    there are verses in vedas which r against illicit sex
    only difference left among us is reagrding verses and reason y it is forbidden..
    plzcan u tell me the verses against illicit sex your guru have told so that i can also read them from my copy..now y its wrong and what r consequences of it is a matter subjective and v will discuss it once v get all range of verses..but im glad that now u recognize the fact that vedas do contain verses against illicit sex.
  - j Vij May 1, 2016 At 6:43 pm
    
    “regarding pre marital sex vedas dont say like this ” thou shall not commit pre marital sex”
    
    thats exactly what i intended to convey……hinduism doesn’t speak like semetic religions
    
    “u also stated too much of marital sex ,yes that is also condemned ,in verse ”
    
    exactly…..thats the other point i wanted to convey….but a correction i would like to include….vedas do not “condemn” anything……but addiction to sex in any form //////(even marital) is said to affect you negatively
    
    Having said all that……my main point of involvement here is to say that those attacking protestors are worse sinners than the protestors themselves (generally speaking…….)
  - Harshvardhan Singh May 9, 2016 At 8:46 pm
    
    but sir plz give verses which your guru said that are against pre marital intercourse so that i can also read from my copy..thank u
  - Varun May 16, 2016 At 8:45 pm
    
    I feel the focus need to be on the KOL activists at all. They ween’t acting on behalf of Hinduism. These were mostly comunists and atheists. But those who wee attacking them were acting on behalf of Hinduism.
    
    i feel that instead of focussing on KOL, focus should have been on the ones actions who wee acting on behalf of Hinduism. It is one thing to defend you country your people and all that…..which forms part of our karma.
    
    but-Ideological battles need to be won by debates..not by force
  - harsh singh March 26, 2016 At 4:48 am
    
    @jyotish,sir i would differ here a little bit from your point,,u rright ,ifv rtofind words they aren’t in vedas,,even first knowldge was revealed in hearts of sages, vedic sanskrit was developed by those sages in whose hearts,knowledge was revealed ,,butusee sir being eternal knowledge ,it got to cover all kinds of action ,now actions are infinite,,,plus it also has to contain,spritualmeanings to awaken our consciousness ,,thats yvedas are coded in such way,that a sinngle hymn can be ,interpreted in many ways sothat scope of single verse becomes vastlets take an example verse 6,.24 empasises that only celibates are eligible for marrriage ,
    6.24 – oh celibate girl ,marry celibate boy by choosing from this assembly of your choice..
    and this is correct translation,u can askany vedicacahrya(notsanskrit scholar,knowing sanskrit isdifferent knowing veda is different)..but thisisnotthe only translation thereis a spritual aspect toit..as
    6.24 o agni ,whopersuades in etranal house iplace u here for bliss
    u are share of indra and agni
    u share of varuna and and mitra
    u are share of all gods,the waters that are near to sunor together with sun may increase our yajna( this transationis talking about yajna that occurs inour subtleconsciousness when v chant this mantra,celesstialbliss is experinced ,)
    so u see same hymn has entilrely diffrent message depening upon,situtation and refrence of context, neither aboveisfalse ,nither below one both r right..but contexts are different oneis ritualistic,other is spritualand focusseson inner world..but forany authoritsdifficult toproduce allmeanings ,but that doesnt mean they dont knowit ,itssimply incomprehensible..hence best way to learn vedas is toapproach a guru ,rather than texts..or if using text decipher toas many aspossiblebut only thoseofvedicschlars and acharyas publised by arya samj or gurukulkangari aandmany vedic seers works,
  - harsh singh March 26, 2016 At 5:38 am
    
    and read his books ,he answers allquestions never declinesany question on his website ,your answer withyourquestion gets publized( uwill recive email also) ,he hasgreat kkowldgeofvedas and vedic texts ,he will clear all your doubts and misconceptions about vedas..what ifind today amomgst hinusisafalse thoery(in myopinion) that hindus dont have do’sndonts and any such rule ,do what your heart is telling..but as per me in my opinion ( u may differ) , hinduism or let meuse better word sanatn dharm has do’s and don’ts described in such a wide and descriptive manner that even muslims and chistians will fail ..vedas even describes what man should think( referr agniveer articles on motherhood and “its time for action”,,these articles are very good),another exampleis swami daynda yajrved bhasya and yajurved bhasya by rlkashyap both based on same yajurved but covering enitirely different relams and both are right ,it depends what u want to know from vedas..but vedas only talkabout actions not aspects like circumcization,keeping beard and any such rituals..and scope of right actions can bemade as large as possible depending upon ourcability tocontemplate ..takeanother example after marriage whoshould leave house man or woman,,what should be donein this..nowfeminists keep raising thisquestion tocreate gender war..but atharved says its woman who should join man’s house, thats the divine way created by god…Atharvaveda mantra 1/14/1 – A good wife should establish herself permanently in her husband’s house just as mountain firmly establishes itself on ground…
    but this verse also has another dimension of inner spirit , ..so that is what i m talkiing about ,,scope of vedas are infinte and there is no ambiguity when a particular aspect is being focussed ,nowit dependson translator which aspect he takes.anbeauty of vedasis same message willbecoveyed by many other verses,if translated in that particular context and that issue is being…
  - harsh singh March 26, 2016 At 6:08 am
    
    ….do….
    so it totally depends oncontext andscope..forexamplev were discussing illicit sex ,no when v focus on this issue , u see i gave u so many verses ,formdifferent authors , because each author was conveying against it through some different verse(most of them did commonly with maximumverses),soeach author chose to covey message thorugh different verse out of range of verses,,but if v read allbooks ,v get a range of these verses fromsingle yajurveda only ,;eave other three( though such message appers alsoinabundnace) am if v get into more estoric nature and gurus whoare mantra dristas ,range of these verses widens , because lireally translation they may seem tobe meaning something else but oncontemlating and mediating will reveal us to true meanig of that verse based on refrence ofcontext.. thats how , vedas work..sotosay ifparticular verse canbe cited inmy opinion yes n hat too in range ,but same verses would also bemeaning something else entirely if v change the refrence offrame ..now which refrnce does a author takeson translating dependsonhim..somy adviseistoread asmany authors as u can but only those of qualified ones,not that of some pseudo intellecuals, u may ask what if one makes mistake, answer is yes but vedas have selfcorrecting mechanism, whatever adharmic interpretation u r doing u will be self corrected provided u r doing it with devotion and sincerely..thats y a very strict coe and penance is there and very inteligent and yogic satva and focussed mind with practice of astang yog can do that..its not tom , dick harry’s job,, so i say ,scope of do’s and dont’s of abrahmics are limited but that of vedas is evrexpaning ,unending ,themore u ig the deeper it gets ,an infinite both in breath and depth..u will appreciate this point only when u hear vedas and come in contact with some guru..
Basant Jhariya January 5, 2015 At 3:33 am

मैंने सब कुछ दांव पर लगाकर अग्निवीर को तोड़ने का प्रयास किया। लेकिन उनके कर्म्म इतने पवित्र थे की महर्षि मनु की मनु स्मृति भी फीकी हो गई। महर्षि मनु से श्रेष्ठ अग्निवीर जी हैं। महर्षि मनु की मनु स्मृति एवं अग्निवीर.कॉम दोनों में से एक चुनना पड़े तो मैं अग्निवीर.कॉम को ही चुनुँगा। क्योंकि रक्षा मनु स्मृति नहीं करती । रक्षा अग्निवीर करता है। अग्निवीर के लिए कोई नयी उपाधि खोजनी पड़ेगी। क्योंकि पुरानी उपाधियाँ लगाकर मैं इनका अपमान नहीं करना चाहता। अग्निवीर जी की तुलना पतंजलि से भी नहीं की जा सकती…

Basant Jhariya January 5, 2015 At 3:46 am

अग्निवीर जी की तुलना पतंजलि से भी नहीं की जा सकती क्योंकि पतंजलि योग दर्शन भी अग्निवीर.कॉम से तुच्छ है। मैंने कोशिश की कि ऋषि मुनियों के शास्त्रों से कोई कांसेप्ट में इनको काट डालूं लेकिन कोई भी कांसेप्ट काम नहीं आया। श्री कृष्ण से भी अग्निवीर की तुलना नहीं की जा सकती क्योंकि श्री कृष्ण रणछोड़ थे। लेकिन अग्निवीर जी रण नहीं छोड़ रहे। महर्षि कपिल तो बेचारे ज्ञान को ही श्रेष्ठ मानते थे। और भेकी की कहानी का जो मैंने अर्थ समझा उससे मुझे पीड़ा हुई। राम तो छुपकर वार किया था अग्निवीर जी तो प्रत्यक्ष हैं।…

Basant Jhariya January 5, 2015 At 4:33 am

PARDON ME EVERYONE. I REVERT MY WORDS. ALL MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS ARE FRAUD MAHARSHI MANU IS UNMATCHABLE . GOD IS GREATEST .