On Tamil and Sanskrit

Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

Any attempt to dissociate a vernacular language from Vedic Sanskrit is nothing more than Kalidas cutting the tree on which he sits.

Kannada, Tamil, Marathi, Telugu, Bangla, Bhojpuri, Marwari, Gujarati, Maithili, Braja, Awadhi, Malayalam, Asamiya, Odiya, Haryanavi, Punjabi, Konkani etc etc – I love them all because they are my family. But if they disown the mother Vedas – they remain nothing more than some sound waves that any computer can make these days.

Without getting into debate of which is older or how Tamil has not evolved from Sanskrit (because I believe this debate is inherently flawed) I would assert that:

1. Sanskrit forms the mother of Tamil culture, if not language. The spiritual foundation of Tamils, just like other Hindus, is sourced from Vedas. And hence Vedic Sanskrit is mother that cannot be sidelined.

2. Tamil may be older than classical Sanskrit. But to claim that it is older than Vedas (or Vedic Sanskrit) has no basis whatsoever. The anti-Hindus and communists may argue this way. But when Hindus argue this just to prove superiority of Tamil language, I can only pity.

A. Agastya Rishi is said to be father of Tamil language. The same Agastya Rishi is also a Rishi who revealed meaning of several Vedic Mantras. He is said to have migrated from North India.

B. There is no evidence of a version of Tamil that is totally dissociated with Sanskrit.

C. If Tamil be older than Vedas, then Hinduism reduces to a tribal religion. The foundation of Hinduism is that Vedas are Apaurusheya (timeless and not created by humans). Vedas are eternal knowledge that comes through inspiration of Rishis.

Now this assumption cannot be refuted by anyone. Because there is no evidence of Vedas being evolved at any time. And if you still do, you open gates for conversions and invasions.

Because then you admit that while Christians have a Holy Bible and Muslims have a Holy Quran, we have nothing Holy and hence we are always available for adjustments and change.

3. The whole Dravida movement was based on two blatant lies:
– Aryans invaded India and Dravida are original people.
– Aryans use Sanskrit and Dravida speak Tamil.

Today these lies have become so widespread in TN that even devout Hindus want to put extra emphasis on Tamil – Sanskrit divide.

My stand on this is clear:
– The study of origin of languages as analyzed today is inherently flawed. Tamil is definitely older than Classical Sanskrit (that of Kalidas). But it does not predate Vedas (Vedic Sanskrit). Nothing in world does.

– Tamil may have developed as an independent language. Many languages have. Esperanto for example. But there was never a period when Sanskrit did not influence Tamil.

– To date languages based on written records is foolishness because this is also written that for ages languages and wisdom was transmitted orally.

– Most of these studies of Tamil vs Sanskrit are driven by those influences by communist or evangelical mindsets. And hence spurious.

– Tamil must be nurtured just like other vernacular languages. Tamil must be given special importance because it is the oldest spoken language today.

– But any attempt to dissociate Tamil from Sanskrit, or to pitch the two languages against each other, or remove Sanskrit words from Tamil is a naughty foolish attempt that must be thwarted.

– On contrary, Sanskrit must be made national language and used as a a unifying agent for entire India. Deprive India of Sanskrit, and nothing but saga of Mughal and British loots remain. And to honor the core of Sanskrit, Vedic Sanskrit, instead of classical Sanskrit, must be revived.

This is possible today because we will be starting from scratch. Let the Sanskrit of Vedas become lingua-franca. It is the easiest, most intuitive, and most binding language of universe.

I respect Tamil. It is my heritage that I am proud of. Vedas is the mother.

It is sad to see some Hindu leaders claiming Tamil to be older than Sanskrit. The only 2 proofs are Dravidian regional politics and JNU brand anti-Hindu allergy. Vedic Sanskrit is oldest and that’s why even Tamils adopted it for worship. Tamil was created by Agastya – Vedic rishi. And is awesome.

Tamil is far older than Kalidas type classical Sanskrit. But not Gayatri Mantra and Mahamrityunjaya. Moment you sideline Vedas to prove Tamil old, you break foundation of Hinduism and bring it to level of later religions. Good for politics, blunder for nation. And total lie.

The entire drama of Tamil being older than Sanskrit started with Dravida politics that demanded separate nation like Pakistan. Concocted by separatist haters like Periyar. Soon it became blasphemy in Tamil Nadu if you say Tamil is not oldest.

Irony is that Sanskrit and Sanskrit based Hinduism is still mainstay of Tamil spiritualism. Tamils never found a reason to compete with Sanskrit till 20th century. Everyone knew Vedas are mother and hence Tamils preserved Vedas more than other regions of India.

Yes Tamil is the oldest spoken language today. It is almost as old as Ramayana that mentions Agastya in south India. But there is no evidence of it being older than Vedic Sanskrit except anti-Hindu Dravidian politics and JNU brand anti nationalist history.

Of course, Tamil is a beautiful language. It must be proactively spread as our shared legacy. It has its own unique framework. It is by sheer grace of Prabhu that it got preserved because Jihad could not impact there much. It’s pristine purity makes it a wonder of world.

Classical Sanskrit is derived from certain narrow rules from Vedic Sanskrit. All other Indian languages derive that path. Vedic rishi Agastya – of Ramayana era – created Tamil with a different rule base after he moved south. This helped preserve Vedic culture without dilutions.

So yes, Tamil is not derived from classical Sanskrit. Classical is different from Vedic Sanskrit – the mother. Tamil has its own independent standing, is our great heritage, was created by a Vedic rishi whose name appears in Vedic compilations. Hence not older than Vedas.

There is this belief of Tamil created from Lord Shiva. Perfectly acceptable considering the way it has thrived and richness it possesses. Same Shiva is hailed as preserver of Vedas. In Hinduism, Vedas and Vedic Sanskrit are eternal. Tamil is divine but not older than Shiva.

For more, follow Shri Sanjeev on twitter – Shri Sanjeev Newar on Twitter

On Origin of Languages – Shri Sanjeev Newar Agniveer

Ted Talk on reality of caste system having origins in Hindu scriptures by Shri Sanjeev Newar

Learn Conversational Sanskrit – (Video Lessons)

– Shri Sanjeev Newar

Learn Sanskrit in simple manner –
1. Video Tutorial – Youtube Playlist
2. Lessons in Hindi, English

Spend few minutes daily on one of these and you will be able to learn basics of conversational Sanskrit in simple manner.

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Reviving Sanskrit

Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

12 COMMENTS

palaniappan October 8, 2019 At 8:48 pm

can you suggest me a book which can help me to understand what vedas preach us , so that i can follow vedas

Reply
- padma December 25, 2019 At 9:46 am
  
  Read the Upanishads.. to understand the vedas better… I am a Tamilian and I love tamil and bharatiyar, avvayar, tiruvalluvar, tirumular, et al. But, why should you hate our own deva bhasha ‘sanskrit’? give it a try, learn it a bit, say a couple of mantras, you’ll know the beauty of ‘sanskrit’
  
  Reply
  - muthu raman February 22, 2020 At 11:48 am
    
    I WENT THROUGH THE BHAGVATH GEETHA OF ALL THE 18 CHAPTERS IN MY TEEN AGE ITSELF AND FOUND THAT IT IS FULL OF CONCONTROVERSIES . AND THE MOST OBJECTIONABLE PART IS ” CHATHUR VARNYAM MAYA SRASHTAM … ” WHICH LATER DEVELOPED INTO OUR STUPID CASTE SYSTEM . AND ONE MORE QUESTION . WHY DID LORD KRISHNA SHOW HIS VISHWAROOPAM TO DURYODHANA WHEN HE REFUSED TO GIVE ANYTHING TO THE PANDAVAS SO THAT WHOLE HUGE WAR AND BLOODSHED COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED ?
  - muthu raman February 22, 2020 At 11:50 am
    
    SORRY READ AS WHY DID NOT LORD KRISHNA
  - Vijaypal Mishra April 23, 2020 At 1:12 am
    
    You argument is baseless and idiotic , the whole caste syatem was based on work culture and not birth,. Either you are idiot who is just trying to be smart or you haven’t understood a simple line of Gita, both ways I pity on you
George Jacob November 7, 2019 At 4:34 am

Wow, you repeat the same thing over and over again in spite of it being totally baseless. Repetition is good for elementary school and not for proving anything beyond. You really come across as a loser in this debate. Just go home to mommy.

Reply
- Vijaypal Mishra April 23, 2020 At 1:09 am
  
  I don’t even why a person named George Jacob is here.
  
  Reply
Srinivasan November 12, 2019 At 2:10 pm

In tamil grammar book tholkapiyam (thol means ancient) which is written by tholkaapiar it is mentioned that to pronounce the Tamil letters one should refer brahmins vedas. Since pronunciation is important in vedas the author tells refer vedas. And the author Tholkapiyar himself a very well versed in 4 vedas. It’s also mentioned in that book.

And in several Tamil sangam literature works sage agasthiya as mentioned vadapal muni means came from Sage of north.

In one of Tamil sangam literature it was mentioned that lord Shiva gave sanskrit to Sage Panini and Tamil to Sage Agasthya.

Reply
Aaron January 16, 2020 At 7:14 am

Read your piece on Tamil vs Sanskrit and would like to get following clarification.
How do you explain the genetic divide between ASI and ANI haplotypes as per the latest gene marker study. Does it not imply that the two stocks are different?
2. Majority of Tamils even today follows Nadukal and forefather worship along with nature worship. How does it correlate with Vedic methods?
3. The GOD’s mentioned in Sangam literature are Kottavai, Velan, Mayoon etc relate to Vedic GOD’s
4. Early Siddhar’s and Sasta’s of Tamil literatures are totally against Vedic way of life and insists on life energy and cosmic energy and synchronising the same to achieve eternal bliss.
5. Archeological evidence prove southerners had trade link with Egyptian, Roman, Chinese and south India was the transit hub between west Asia and Easr Asia. Then how and why should these people follow Vedic way of life ?

Reply
Aaron January 16, 2020 At 7:32 am

Also since you claim you are a product of IIT &IIM you may be aware of scientific methodology that need to be adopted in any research. Be it literature analysis, Archeology or anthropology.
In sangam Tamil the way of life of tamils are clearly spelt out. People had Aham(love) and Puram( valour) and life style into five Thinai( Mountain people(kurunchi),Forest people(Mullai), People in plains(Marutham), The seafarers(Neithal) and people living in waste lands(Palai).
Their Aram(right actions to lead a life) porul(how they earned their asserts) Enbam (how they enjoyed their life) and Veedu ( their quest for eternal life) are vividly captured in Sangam literature.
Likewise I would love to hear the Vedic people’s way of life. If you do have some material please do share so that it can be helpful to understand more about inter cultural relationships of Vedic and Tamil people

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- Prashant March 7, 2020 At 1:50 am
  
  Ramayana is enough to give all your answers
  
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MUTHURAMAN February 20, 2020 At 11:42 am

PLEASE GOOGLE ” M130 INDIA ” WHICH STATES THAT CARRIERS OF THIS EARLIEST GENE IN INDIA SPEAK TAMIL . THEIR ORIGINAL FORE FATHERS MIGHT HAVE SPOKEN RUDIMENTARY TAMIL BUT NOT EVEN THE WILDEST OF IMAGINATION CAN MAKE US THINK THAT THEY SPOKE ANY VERSION OF SANSKRIT OR CHANTED ANY VEDAS .ONE SUCH PERSON IDENTIFIED IS MR. VIRUMANDI THEVAR . HE IS FROM A VILLAGE CALLED JOTHI MANICKAM NEAR MADURAI . HE IS VERY MUCH AVAILABLE NOW AS A NETWORK ENGINEER . WHAT AN AMAZING DISCOVERY BY MADURAI KAMARAJ UNIVERSITY !!!

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