We have already dealt this issue in sufficient details in past. However as mentioned in previous article of this series (http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-vedas/) those who believe in death for apostates and hell for everyone except their own gang members have been creating frivolous articles to counter Agniveer. While their frustration is justified (because of reduced dominance in cyberspace), their methods are not.

In this brief article we shall share our views on yet another attempt to attack Vedas simply because they cannot defend their own fanaticism in a logical manner. You can type “Origin of Vedas, Their Inspiration, and Authority” and google out the different versions of said attempt.

As usual, we shall provide a brief of allegation and our response.

Allegation 1: There are conflicting reports on who created the Vedas. There are multiple views and there is no unanimity.

Agniveer:

1. The origin of Vedas is not as simple as a human-like God sitting on some throne sending some angel to narrate divine message to some human being. Vedas represent eternal knowledge that is already within us. Its origin and dissemination is critically linked with creation of universe and propagation of intelligent life. This is one of the most complex subjects. And hence various analogies are used to explain it in a way we can understand.

In reality truth is beyond what we see today. And yet we have to find our way through what we know today to understand what we don’t know yet. This is called Thought-Experiment.

Newton used a thought-experiment to deduce that moon is a falling projectile that does not hit the earth due to its curvature. Now in reality Newton never did such an experiment, nor one can prove if this is indeed historically true. All we know is that this analogy helps us understand laws of motion in universe better.

In same vein, Vedas, Upanishads, Geeta and even Purans use a variety of analogies to explain different aspects of origin of Vedas.

2. Some say that they were first revealed to sages called Agni, Vayu and Aditya. Note that these names are titles and not names printed on their ration cards. Others say that for all practical purpose, Brahma was first person to master the 4 Vedas and propagate to next generation. Again Brahma is a title.

3. Shatpath Brahman gaves a beautiful analogy – That just as exhalation and inhalation happen, all forms of knowledge – Vedas, Upanishads, Formulae, History etc – get manifested and get submerged in Supreme Being. Thus like breathing, this is a cyclical process.

On this analogy, skeptics raise several questions.

First they raise doubt that this shows that God is human like. However this is a silly doubt because this is only an analogy. Knowledge cannot come out from nostrils!

Second, they say that Vedas are not exclusively mentioned. Hence either every knowledge is divine or nothing is divine. This is also shallow logic. Because:

– divinity of Vedas is not same as divinity of Bible or Quran. Divinity in context of Vedas only means that eternal laws of nature as represented in language is unchangeable.

– mention of various fields of knowledge shows a process. First the Vedas are mentioned and then other fields. This means that first wisdom of Vedas is imbibed and then other fields of knowledge emanate from the Vedic wisdom.

– there are other references in scriptures that focus only on Vedas. The objective in this particular shloka was to show a process of knowledge propagation. For more on this refer http://agniveer.com/1553/origin-of-vedas/ and http://agniveer.com/1566/eternity-of-vedas/

Allegation 2: Agniveer claims that Brahma learned the four Vedas from the Rishis. However, according to references from Svetashvatara and Mundak Upanishads, Brahma was directly taught by God and he in turn taught the other Rishis.  An interesting point to be noted here is that in the same Kanda,  verse 5, Angiras calls the four Vedas as ‘lower knowledge’  (Apra) and says that God cannot be known through the Vedas.

Agniveer:

1. All that the alleged verses state is that Brahma was the first person to master the 4 Vedas and propagate an integrated view to rest of the civilization. Some texts state that 4 other Rishis first had one Vedas each inspired within them and then they together taught Brahma. So there is nothing conflicting here.

2. Even if Brahma mastered Vedas directly and the 4 Rishis mentioned were actually something else, how does that change the reality? Vedas still remain the oldest text and unchanged as per best available evidences. They also contain nothing objectionable to our understanding and further themselves ask us to think logically rather than accept things blindly. What else do we need as a better foundation?

3. Angiras is completely correct in stating that God cannot be known though the Vedas. That is exactly what Agniveer also says. Here what the author means is rote memorization of Vedas or interpretation of Vedas literally without applying mind and implementing them blindly.

Mugging up Vedas verbatim and expecting recitation of mantras to give salvation would be completely fruitless. God – or whatever label you give it – can be known only though activation of Vedas that is within each of us. Please refer our previous 3 articles for more on this:

http://agniveer.com/5095/what-is-vedic-religion/

http://agniveer.com/5132/common-questions-vedic-religion/

http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-vedas/

 

Allegation 3: There are several references of Rishis being writers of Vedic mantras and not researchers. So Vedas are manmade.

Agniveer:

We shall not comment on who actually created the Vedas. We leave that to individual’s introspection. But we would like to assert that there is no documentary or historical evidence so far for creation of Vedas by any human. For more on this allegation, please refer http://agniveer.com/3937/who-wrote-vedas/ that summarily thrashes this vague allegation.

Allegation 4: Many Rishis even have names similar to words of the mantras attributed to them. Hence they were the creators of those mantras.

Agniveer:

As we mentioned earlier, no Rishi was identified as per his ration card or  passport. Legendary persons are known more by deeds or choice than birth name. Thus Subhash Chandra Bose got the name ‘Netaji’. Moolshankar is known as Swami Dayanand Saraswati. Mohandas is more popular has Mahatma Gandhi. Hardly anyone would know what are the real names of people known as Agniveer. Thus Vedic Rishis came to be known by the names exemplifying their researches. Hence we see that Narayana is Rishi of Purusha Sukta, Bhishaq (meaning doctor) is Rishi of Rigveda 10.97 focusing on medicines, Rigveda 10.101 has Rishi Budha Saumya (intellectual and sober person) because the sukta deals with related themes. There are countless such examples.

The point is the Vedic Rishis were not working with agenda of marketing their birth certificates. They were Yogis who were devoted to discovering the nectar of Vedas and rise beyond the cycles of death and birth. Thus name is just a matter of social convenience for them. So, no wonder, names of most Vedic rishis are related to subject of their specializations regardless of their birth name and even gender.

Allegation 5: Panini said that Brahmans are new and old and hence Vedas are not divine.

Agniveer:

When did we claim Brahmans to be divine or eternal? Only the Vedic mantras are eternal as per our traditional knowledge and wisdom. Brahmans are explanations of Vedas by putting them in contemporary contexts. For more, refer http://agniveer.com/1596/vedas/

Allegation 6: Some mantras talk of creation of new verses and being worshipped by new and old Rishis. Hence Vedas are not eternal.

Agniveer:

Which verse talks of creation of new Vedic mantras by human beings? I never heard one.  But yes, humanity has always created new verses, new songs, new articles, new poems etc in all creations. There is difference between creation of mantras of Vedas and creation of other verses inspired by Vedas.

Same goes for Rishis – they keep emerging in society. So if a mantras says so, it is eternally true. Vedas are the seeds, but you need to create a tree out of the seed for benefit of self and society.

Allegation 7: Many verses talk of fights with aborigines and drinking alcohol. Hence Vedas are not divine.

Agniveer:

If you read translations by western indologists and those translations that are based on such translations, you are bound to discover similar stupid things. The alcohol myth has been summarily dealt with in http://agniveer.com/3965/soma-alcohol-and-vedas/. Vedas do not believe in aborigines concept. It does talk of fighting out the militants and terrorists. That is what all right-minded governments and armies have been doing since ages. That is what led to death of Osama. So this is a reason to celebrate and not crib over, unless you yourself are a militant. Are you?

This ends the quota of allegations at least for this time. We hope next time we would have something more refined and intellectual to scrutinize. We are tired of dealing with such utterly frivolous works. We pray to the Supreme that He may provide us a break so that we can share something more meaningful and useful with our visitors without further distractions.

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

113 COMMENTS

  1. sir, who were the four rishis? they heard the four vedas individually from god during samadhi? and why does brahma come after the 4 rishis? cud it be that the four elements(earth, water, fire ,air) taught him?just like science ? i want to know the chain of succession, please. wasnt he the first? the creator of universe? father of prophets like Abraham? was he human, superhuman ancestor? where is he? brahmaloka? and i understand the chemical evolution is supported by vedas, does it also support evolution of species? has anyone reached in the state of samadhi nowdays? wat if samadhi is a mental problem? wat if mohamed n christ n all others were also in the state of samadhi when they talked with god?

  2. Suv,

    People like you are the problem. You have not even read the Vedas and make these claims. I would have believed you if I didn’t read even a bad translation of the Vedas. After reading the Vedas, I know you are a total and utter liar. The problem in India is people depend to much on hearsay and not on facts. That is the problem. And like you, people do not do RESEARCH and actually go to the source. And because I am a man of science and choose to go to sources, I have decided to actually go look up a copy of the Vedas translated into English by a Vedic follower and it made sense.

    Next time before you post, try not to do reverse engineering. Where you take a person who is only Hindu by name, but has never read the Vedas. If you reverse engineer, of course you will get a lot of wonky Hindus and wonky definition of Hinduism. Instead, GO TO THE SOURCE. If you know Hindi, Agniveer has posted some great material for you to read including a translated copy of the Vedas.

    You should start with what is the Vedic God. And you will see, Vedic Hindus believe in ONE GOD, not mythology. And actually are against Idol worship in all it forms. Also against the concept of son-of-god, prophets, godmen, incarnations, and all that non-sense. Vedic people believe anyone can connect directly to God. They just need to meditation and use Yoga (real Yoga, not just the stretching [and real Yoga is talked about in the Vedas]) and they can personally connect with God. Vedic people ask to reproduce, not depend on other people.

    And in regards to corruption and all that stuff you mentioned. This is happening because people are not following the the principles of the Vedas. If they were, they would have left those myths, idolatry, sonofgod/prophet/godman/incranation worship.

    • Don’t fall for these games that these Christian bigots play. Who says there is anything wrong with multiple deities? Only those who believe in Abrahamic monotheism. So what if there are polythesitic religions. Big deal. Arabs before Islam, before Muhammed slaughtered them and forced them into his version of Judaism aka Islam, believed in polytheism and were 180 degrees more tolerant of other religions than they are now. Mecca was filled with multiple Gods and Goddesses. What is now Saudi Arabia was multi-ethnic (Jews, Arabs and other Middle Eastern ethnicities) and multi-religious (Jews, Christians, Arab polytheists and others) place unlike today home only to Saudi Arabs and Islam.
      Some of the greatest European philosophies and art work were done by European polytheists prior to Middle Eastern derivative Jewish faith of Christianity. Egypt during its thousands of years of high civilization was polytheistic. It never rose as great since.

  3. Hi , Landmark retail store has Rigveda and sama veda with translated by different hindi PHD authors , its is translated from sayan or sayani language version of Vedas and is in hindi language ….wanted to check whether this would be authoritative rendering of orginal vedas and can be picked up for reading and understanding ??, also there is comment above that Vedas reading should be followed up with reading of 6 darshanas, upanishads, brahmasutras , where can I get a Hindi version of these books ? please guide tx

  4. VED KA RAHASYA – ved anant hai,ved ke mantra ka sakshat jis rishi ko hua us hi drasta kahte hai.gyan ki saptbhumika me janewale keval virle logonko ki ved ke mantra ka sakshat hota hai.ved nitya nutan,sanatan aur amar hai.ved ke bare me aaj aadmi kitna hi soche magar ved ka rahasya nahi jaan sakta.keval eshwar hi janta hai ved ka rahasya.pahle devta purush,rishi in ke madhyam se eshwar ved ke rahasyonko gyan dete the.aaj ke jamane me kahi bhi devta purush,rishi dikhai nahi dete to ved ke rahasyonka gyan kaise milega.ESHWAR BHI HAI AUR VED BHI HAI PAR DEVTA PURUSH AUR RISHI NAHI HAI.ex.agar mere paas mobile hai simcard hai par tower nahi hai,to phone nahi lagega.iska arth mobile nahi hai,simcard nahi hai aisa koi kahega to galti hogi.aaj aadmi to itna neeche ja chuka hai ki pashu se battar halat uski ho gayi hai.aadmi kisko kahe aur pashu kisko tay karna mushkil ho gaya.aadmi ka standard aadmi ka hi maans khane tak aur har sanbhav ho sake kaisa bhi kukarm karne tak pahunch gaya hai.aise me dharm,eshwar,ved inki baat karna inka apman karne jaisa siddha ho raha hai,iska arth ye nahi ki sabhi log is manodasha me hai,kuch aache log bhi hai,par unki sankya bahut kam hai.aaj dharm to ek fashion ho gaya.isai,muslims ved ko majak bana rahe hai,ved ke mantro ka manchaha arth nikal ke logonko gumrah kar rahe hai.ved me muhammad,ved me yeshu aisa kah ke ved ki ninda kar rahe hai.sabhi aryasamaj ko iska muhtod jawab dena chahiye.taki inko ved ka naam lene se pahle sou baar sochna pade.

  5. @manjunaath,dharm itna sasta ho gaya hai iska ek example hai,ye sadhu???. ”Train me sucide karne gaya aur bible ke vachan yaad aaye” ye sab murkh logonke,viklang manodasha ke lakshan hai.hazaaro log sucide ki firak me rahte hai,is me se koi isai,ya muslims banega hi.kyo ki jo aadmi sucide ki soch tak aa gaya usko aise hi kamjor religion dikhai pade to aacharya nahi.muhammad bhi sucide ki manodasha me tha to use allah jibrail forceful hoke teen bar jabardasti se bola.chirstian bhi usi manodasha me hai,koi taranhaar yeshu hume chamtkar karke sab dukh se dur karega.ye sab popleela hai.aadmi swayam aapne sukh aur dukh ke liye karan hai.sur eshwar sadharan karan hai.manushya karm karne ke liye swatantra hai,par fal ke liye eshwar par depend hai.aadmi ke karm karte waqt eshwar koi dhyan nahi deta par jaise uska fal ka samay aata hi to dhyan deta hai.aadmi khud apna hi mitra aur aapna hi shatru hai geeta) ye sucide karnewale log vikrut,durbal,heen manodasha ke shikar hai,aur isai,islam ye religion shikari hai.jo sirf bhagodapan,palayanvad,jivan se mukh modna sikhate hai.ye sadhu nahi balki chirstanity ka shadyantra hai.ved me yeshu ka varanan hai,aur vohi prajapati hai,aisa kahana dimagi halat kamjor hone ka lakshan hai.kaha ved aur kaha 15-20 page ki yeshu ki biography.jisme ved ka zikr tak nahi,marte waqt bola shabd koun si bhasha ka hai,ye tak pata nahi chala aajtak.to ye prajapati kaha se hoga?hahaha

  6. Chapter-6 of Satyarth Prakash is “Raaj Dharm”. In this chapter, Swami Dayanand enumerates
    powers of citizens, officers, Ministers, judges and their duties. In the very first page of chapter-6, Swami
    Dayanand establishes the foundation of Raaj-Dharm. Swami Dayanand gives two words – “Prajaaaadheen Raajaa”. And in these two words, he summarizes 10000 proposals on good politics. And
    then he elaborates : “Raajaa must be Prajaa-aadheen, or else he will rob the citizens and destroy
    the nation”. And he has taken shlokas from Atharvaved. And a cursory comparison of India’s Police
    Commissioner, Ministers, judges etc with US Police Commissioner, Ministers, judges etc shows how
    correct the sages who wrote Atharvaved and Swami Dayanand are. The citizens in US have procedures
    to expel their District Police Chief, CM etc i.e. they are all Prajaa-aadheen, and so Police Chief,
    judges, CM etc in US don’t rob citizens but protect citizens Whereas citizens in India cant expel or do
    any damage to Police Chief, CM etc and thus they are not Prajaa-aadheen. And so we see that most
    Ministers, judges in India are busy robbing us commons. How apt is the analogy of Maharshi Dayanand – “just as carnivorous animal eats other animals, a Raajaa who is not Prajaa-aadheen would
    rob his citizens”. Thus , we should have laws like RIGHT TO RECALL in India also like in USA. for more details plz read these links http://rahulmehta.com/001.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/ , http://www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf

  7. Do you have a spam issue on this site; I also am a blogger, and I was curious about your situation; we have created some nice methods and we are looking to swap techniques with others, be sure to shoot me an email if interested.

  8. hello everyone vedas is very complex to understand before studying vedas we should no about reality, by knowing absolute reality u will come to a conclusion that everything is electrical signals,physical world is just electrical signals,our brain converts this electrical signal to one form of virtual reality,everthing is energy,when everything is energy then time is just an illusion & nothing exists , not even matter,neither u,nor me,nor this website then who am i?, y i have struck in this virtual reality,what is my purpose,who is managing all this, r we the creators of this universe,if we r creator then who is the creator of those electrical signals,y should i live,there is no difference between a dead body and living person,both r comprised of same matter then y i am able to have conscious living,who are we, what is my role in this conscious play,is our life sacred or we have just stuck ruthlessly in this world of conscious dream,y shud we create this form reality,is there any worth of living in this world,is there any difference between dream and reality,one who keeps on thinking about these questions ,present day materialistic science may never give answers,then vedas the eternal spiritual science is the solution for each questions, creator can never be described nor it is worth to be worshipped we shud realise our own true self at the higher state of consciousness,this is the only form of reality where we can get bonded with emotions,love,peace,mother’s love,parenting and have a sacred life where our gurus are our source of inspiration for our journey of eternity,world is beautiful when we imagine it as beautiful,the sustainer of universe “om” could be realised in this form of reality,do not hate anyone,all r perfect.

  9. Max Muller intention and motive behind these fake translation can be judged by the content of one of his letter to the Dean of St. Paul’s (Dr. Milman), Stauton House Bournemouth, February 26, 1867, he wrote:

    “I have myself the strongest belief in the growth of Christianity in India. There is no country so ripe for Christianity as India, and yet the difficulties seem enormous.” and also

    To Chevalier Bunsen, 55 St. John Street, Oxford, August 25, 1856, he wrote:

    “I should like to live for 10 years quite quietly and learn the language, try to make friends, and then see whether I was fit to take part in a work, by means of which the old mischief of Indian priestcraft could be overthrown and the way opened for the entrance of simple Christian teaching.Whatever finds root in India soon overshadows the whole of Asia.”
    Do you still want proof?

    • @Nikhil Bro, another very IMPORTANT FACTOR WHICH EXPOSES INDOLOGIST HYPOCRISY is by EXAMINING ONE FACT that is those who have read bible and VEDAS would easily know that one of the important GOSPEL OF BIBLE (GOSPEL OF JOHN) STARTS WITH A VEDIC VERSE. GOSPEL OF JOHN’S FIRST VERSE (JOHN 1:1) IS A COPY PASTE OF VEDIC VERSE. “In the beginning was word …………”

      Why did hypocrite Indologist like Max Muller, Griffith and other Indologist hid this fact, obviously they are Christian Missionary agent and nicely know that if these secrets come to western public christianity will be destroyed, BANK OF VATICAN WILL BECOME BANKRUPT.

      • “I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” Christians think this verse from Bible shows the divinity of Jesus Christ but this verse shows PERVERTED ORIGINS OF CHRISTANITY and this verse also has association with Easter.

        http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html

        The FOUNDERS OF PROTESTANT MOVEMENT KNEW THE PERVERTED ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY THAT IS WHY THEY STOPPED THE WORSHIP OF MARY BUT DIDN’T STOP THE WORSHIP OF JESUS (LOL) FOR THAT THEY GIVE THE EXCUSE THAT BIBLE WAS CHANGED BY VATICAN WHEN IN REALITY ALL THE ORIGINAL SCROLLS AND DOCUMENTS OF BIBLE ARE WITH VATICAN AND PROTESTANTS CHURCH DO NOT HAVE THEM TO MAKE THIS CLAIM AND OTHER THING IS THAT IF BIBLE IS CHANGED WHY PROTESTANTS ARE FOLLOWING BIBLE IN FIRST PLACE. IF CATHOLICS AND VATICAN ARE WRONG THEN WHOLE CHRISTIANITY IS WRONG BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FOUNDERS OF CHRISTIANITY AND HELPED IN SPREADING OF CHRISTIANITY.

  10. 16 & 17. Read http://agniveer.com/548/theory-of-karma-hinduism/
    18. avatar is the reincarnation of the supreme god. You have to first understand the symbolisms of avatar even before asking this question.
    19.Your ever wavery mind forms the hindrance for you in realising that your soul is associated with the nirguna parabrahman. Thats why one gets into all kinds of cruel activities.
    20. Great scriptures called the vedas, the upanishads have been time tested and many bhashyas have been written on them from several centuries. This is bharatiya. Any other philosophy that does not accept the concept in vedas is abharatiya.

  11. 10. Your opinion on charvak is wrong. Charvak dharshan contains info about material world. It has been assumed only that he might have been an atheist. No proper records exist to support this. All dharshans look at the same god from different viewpoints. what is your problem in this?
    11. You can create a moral society with scriptures in sanatana dharma only.
    12. Ask the so called scholars if they have any evidence to suggest aryan invasion theory. This is a cooked up theory.
    13. You dont have any question here.
    14. who said that veda contains contradiction. It is you who is saying that.
    15. Vedas are open to all. Nobody requires an authority on this. But to understand them properly, you need the guidance of a learned guru.

  12. all these translations you are getting are wrong throw them in dustbin.
    any person hindu,muslim,wahabi,jehadi saying them as right should be rejected as without knowledge!
    we declare here that these translations are wrong.. bring original mantra and translations from authoriative sources!
    dont just jump over these same copy paste material every time!

    • Read authentic verses man. Not biased verses of Griffith or Max Mueller or so called indologists who lack the basic knowledge of sanskrit. If you really wish to challenge someone in agniveer, come with authentic sources or understand the verse in sanskit and then come for a discussion.

  13. @shabeer, Before posting something, do some research yaar. My knowledge says that there are no 14 verses in 10:10 or Rigveda. When did you invent 15. i think with this observation, looking at the rest of the post of yours is irrelevant.

  14. @shabeer, Dear Shabeer, if you are truly in quest of knowledge about sanatana dharma, then read my reply to your post. If not, stop now! coz, it only means that you are adamant and will never really learn anything about sanatana dharma but only try to show Islam to be true religion. First of all, understand that sanatana dharma is not a religion. In simple terms, it is a way of living.
    Having said that, let me try answering your queries one by one.
    \1. There is no Veda(by religious),no prophets ,what r the rule we follow our life? Shall we can make our rules?\
    Does a fish require somebody to teach it to swim? Should somebody tell you that you are hungry and you should eat something? Anybody, would say “No” to these questions. All that you require is “common sense” to frame rules which was true in the beginning of universe, is true today and will be true in the future. Do you know a secret about vedas? They contain essentially this very common sense not limited to the examples i have given above. you will never understand that if you pick up individual verses from the texts. you need to study that under a qualified teacher one who is well versed with vedas and the knowledge contained in them.
    2. Your second question was about dharma and some hindu’s view on it.
    Shabeer, when you talk about dharma, always put urself a question, why is that a person does some activity like prostitution or terrorism etc. Try persuing in that direction, you will urself get the answer to this question (If you are really in quest of knowledge, you will do this, else there is no point answering this question to you). Nobody, is required to answer this question.
    3. Your third query if i understand clearly was about about archiving the decision for salvation.
    Did you mean to say archiving knowledge as i can understand that your question 6, question 7 and question 8 requires one single answer.
    Nobody is required to archive the complete vedas in his/her brain. In fact, you will never be a master of all the vedas in…

    • request to mr.nikil
      i am discussing some religious things with my Hindu brothers.
      i says before my posting ,if u have any questions about Islam,plz post other part of the site ,i will answer there.plz post u’r question any part of the site,if we discussing that things,we skip the real topics.

      thanking u

    • Dear Shabeer, All these cruel activities are due to the wavery mind which is not held in control. There are impacts from environment which would drive a person in the wrong direction. When your mind starts wavering, forgetting the fact that you have a association with the supreme parabrahman and not with any person or prophet, it would divert from the its true nature and showcases animalistic attitudes. The end result is “that man loses all common sense”.

  15. @shabeer:

    (1)Vedas broadly define Hindu philosophy. They then need to be followed by a study of the 6 darshanas, Upanishads, Brahmasutras and Bhagvad Gita. Rules of society change from time to time and place to place. For instance, in 7th century Arabia it was ok to screw a 9 year old girl playing with a doll. Now, if someone tries that that person would be called a paedophile and raped by fellow inmates in the jail.
    (2)Indeed it is difficult. On what basis do you decide it is sexually predatory to screw a 9 year old girl?
    (3)Each of us is in a different reincarnation cycle. Hence our perception of the Divine is also bound to be unique.
    (4)It is by independent reasoning. If someone says it is ok to kill homosexuals and the person who does that will enter heaven, we can easily say that whoever said that is a fool. On the other hand if someone says “Do not go after sense pleasures or live within your means, etc.” one can reasonably conclude that the message makes sense. A person saying such things is worthy of being followed. So, in short, the test is based on rationality.
    (5)Question not clear…provide more clarity.
    (6)Which version of Hinduism says this?
    (7)He cant.
    (8)No, as far as I can remember nobody together got PhD in Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and History at the same time.
    (9)Only the basics of morality can be provided from a religious text. Rest need to be reasoned out.

  16. Pranam Brother Shabeer

    1. You are uttering nothing but Mayavada theory here. No prophet I agree.

    2. In Islam everything has been written in Lohe Mehfooz (ie predestined). So why momins enjoy eternal 72 virgins (momin must be so …you know what i mean), rivers of alchohol. I am in deep dilemma that, ” If alcohol is forbidden here why it is a reward in hereafter???”.
    Again why kaffir should have eternal hellfire????

    3. —-3) my dear friend god never create the human,for just his time pass ,he create human & entire universe for valid meaning——–
    yes yes. the valid meaning is execution of kaffirs, plunder, loot, rape, jijiya for them. What a disastrous!!!!
    —-we must follow him as we a human in our universe.
    bec’s,he given us to life,water,air,food and all.——–
    so you are trying to say we were there before our herelife???????? what were we doing then??? how much we are aging???? why not we collide with allah????]

    4. here you are acting just like a jihadi. Your allah really fears questions becoz those may go beyond his knowledge!!!!!! which physicist have narrated that??? Of course, a islamic jihadi scientist. Questions and doubts are the first condition of science. Do you not agree??? Are you wanting to say that asking questions is forbidden in science??? Jihadi brother, that may be the case with quran not with science…………

    Dhanyawad

  17. could you show me a single verse/mantra in Purana/Vedas where God punishes the humans for not worshiping Him?

    1) there is no rule for following according to Hinduism,no prophet,no religious text,not haven,not hell,then how can punishment happened to my brother?

    2) but Islam has these all,that way we get punishment,if we never follow the rule from natural religion.

    3) my dear friend god never create the human,for just his time pass ,he create human & entire universe for valid meaning,we must follow him as we a human in our universe.
    bec’s,he given us to life,water,air,food and all.

    4) god create us as a human,not a superior creator like him to know the all superior things like his world, throne, and what he doing before creation? like that.as a human a achieved knowledge is a limit,this is not my opinion(physics science says our brain is capable of achieving knowledge fro inside the universe ,not out side the universe),u’r theory is not scientific.

  18. Brother Shabeer

    Could you show me a single verse/mantra in Purana/Vedas where God punishes the humans for not worshiping Him?????? If you can show I shall declare that your islam is not a cult but a religion.

    But but but (telling in your way)

    I can show tons of verses in your quran where your allah severely punishes the non believer for not worshiping him. Do you wanna see the verses???? Moreover, you find science in quran 😉 ;). This verses can be used in a comedy show because these are full of satire. One cannot but at once laugh at those.
    ——allha not a god like purana,as much as worship,god power increasing/decreasing like that.———- My foot.

    Wanna debate??? you superstitious people can not give the rebuttal to the commenters of Agniveer let alone agniveer. You are given brain to use it but you fear that your God will throw you in hellfire if you ask questions. In fact your God fears that you might ask some questions that he doesn’t know. 🙂 Very funny, cruel and insane …… 😉

    Dhanyawad

  19. What r the relatio between eternity of allha and shahada?

    Allha ever eternal,ever greate,ever superior.
    Millions of angels is there,they praise the god ever.
    Shahada existing here for only our (human) eternal salvarion,it never depend the existing of god.our worship,prayer,namaz,zakath,etc r belongs to our goog future,allha not a god like purana,as much as worship,god power increasing/decreasing like that.

  20. @maria
    some imotionalist behaviours here,their behaviour talking anti islamic claim without ebvidence,if some muslim redy to debate with them,they esily escape from there,don’t talk to them

  21. Pranam Sister Maria

    gr8 sister.
    ——-All religion encourages people to behave nihilistically. True wisdom is the remedy to all fanatacism.——–

    Sister not all, there would be one and only cult rather than religion and that is Islam (peace be upon it as it needs a lot more of peace.) Please distribute true wisdom among all the mullahs and your dumb Naik. True wisdom also should be distributed among the moron people who applaud foolishly when Naik proves 2+2=4 🙂

    Same to you……Dhanyawad

  22. All religion encourages people to behave nihilistically. True wisdom is the remedy to all fanatacism.
    Thank you for your diligent labours to preserve it in the Vedas.

  23. Pranam Brother SDC and KalBhairav. For the fact, one would have to say that unless the incident happens in a stadium in front of thousands of people no justice is possible for the victim. Isn’t it? What will happen if she can’t manage 4 witnesses?

  24. of the false allegations raised against them, are unable to face even
    their close friends and relations. Our media, after all, often make use
    of such gossip to enhance their popularity. All such misconduct,
    however, is alien to the Islamic society. The situation, wherein decent
    people are, without proper reason, immersed, and done away with, in
    the quicksand of false allegations, will not prevail in that society. Indeed,
    the Qur’anic injunction is to publicly award eighty lashes to such as
    will venture forth in that despicable path.
    The punishments fixed by Islam for adultery are harsh. If
    married, they are to be stoned to death! If unmarried, they are to be
    awarded a hundred lashes! Islam which determines such punishments,
    has also prescribed laws so that the innocents are not punished. It is
    only if one can produce four eye witnesses that he should raise the
    allegation of adultery against the name of another. If this was not
    done, the person who raised the allegation would then be in a fix. Such
    would then be awarded eighty lashes. The possibility of false testimony
    here is very remote indeed. A person will venture to make such an
    allegation only if he is certain that many more people have witnessed
    the act being committed. It is for the same reason that the possibility
    of the innocent being punished is quite improbable.

    • @Shabeer

      How is this ctrl c + ctrl v stuff related to what Truth Seeker asked regarding eternal Shahadah? And when these irrelevant posts are deleted, you feel bad 🙁

    • What if I only have a video footage and no eye witnesses? What happens then? You are talking of methods of a vintage era. You will not reform your laws but will arduously try to defend them even when they have little or no relevance at all.

      And you seriously think lashing the way to deal with adultery. Well, I thought separation or conditional forgiveness is the best way to deal with it. And killing for an adulterous relationship, this is extreme in my opinion. In any case, you have already surrendered your intelligence to 1 book and the methods prescribed therein. Good luck to you, hope you do not end up being lashed some day or even worse stoned to death.

      • @SDC:

        Good point.

        Also, I love it when Muslims say that a woman needs to be in Burqa because otherwise she will show her skin and stupid men will be led away from the path of Allah. Isnt spirituality supposed to grow despite the presence of temptations/distractions? Isnt that true spirituality?

      • KB, it is like saying, “you show skin, I rape; you show money, I loot.” And, they consider this doctrine to be the best (for the savages, of course).

  25. Pranam brother shabeer. I didn’t understand even a single word of that verse. Can u explain how it refutes my claim? Sincerely I didn’t get this. Plz explain.

  26. Pranam Brother Shabeer,

    ——–women in place of one
    man? The answer is also given by the Qur’an: “so that if one of them
    errs the other can remind her.”———

    Are men bereft errs??? you think all man in the world is intelligent enough to not committing a single mistake??? At least your post shows so 😉

    ———This verse deals with debt transactions. Since the Qur’an
    has conferred all financial responsibilities upon man, it will be the men who will, in general, be involved in economic dealings—————-
    Can I ask why??? If you are not a madrasa student you can realize that the women are not inferior to men at any point. The financial state of women is even equal to men. The women of present time is not equivalent to the 600 age’s women.

    ————–Women are, in general, emotional creatures. It is probable
    that the woman, who is easily influenced by tides of emotion is led
    away from the truth.—————
    Where did you get this???? 🙁 🙁

    ——It may be that the one about whom the testimony
    is being made is much more beautiful than the one who makes the
    testimony.————–
    You used ”may”. So even you are confused brother, aren’t you? 😉 😉

  27. Pranam Brother Shabeer, 🙂

    Don’t show me the verses
    follow it :
    Quran (4:11 and 4:176) – (Inheritance) “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females” 🙁
    Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 – “Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves” 🙁
    Quran (66:5) – “Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins” Simply put, if a woman doesn’t behave, she can be replaced.:(
    Quran (24:13) – “Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah.” 🙁 🙁

    And for your funny claim in hinduism:
    http://agniveer.com/1291/women-in-vedas/

  28. @shabeer
    If allah is eternal, Allah kalma/Shahada also must be eternal? What is eternity of Allah’s Kalma/Shahada “La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah”. Is it temporary or eternal? & if temporary which is eternal Shahada of Allah?

  29. Pranam Brother shabeer. If u hav inferior opinion why shud i take it. How two women can be equal b to a man? Why women doesnt get as much property as men? Why there is veil? Why polygammy? Why torturing them? Why they r stoned? Why they shud bring 4 witness? Why they r deprived of? Why ??? 🙁

    • ok i answer u’r questions,
      in discussion forum one of my post is there “Hinduism against freedom of women I”

      plz answer my q’n here or there……………………….

  30. “look>>>>truthofhinduism.com”

    oh dear what a joke, a webiste full of crap and distortions.
    Agniveer has shown basic tenants, u can contact Oxford for Hindu studies, go on,see the facts
    Karma Yoga, what is this
    Basic summary point in Sanatan Dharma-ToDharma for betterment of society,, now Shabber see if you can get past these basic points, as well Moksha, also see:

    http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/88527-vedas-hindu-scriptures-prohibit-casteism.html

  31. @shabeer
    I learned from Kuran that Kuran is not eternal book. This is just introduction of amendment in Allah knowledge. Introduction of new laws. Because Allah is changeable not perfect. Perfect does not require to change. But Allah changes his habit. Allah habit & Knowledge is not eternal. Do you agree with my point.

  32. 5) ” We learn from Vedas that women are as respectable as Devi ”

    i expalined here what are meaning of devi worship:

    Agniveer Discussions / Universal Religion for Entire humanity / Hinduism / AGAINST FREEDOM OF WOMAN I:

  33. 3) ” Vedas strictly punish those people who are meat-eater ”

    look>>>>>truthofhinduism.com/hinduism/cow/beef-consumption-in-hinduism/>>>>

    look>>>>truthofhinduism.com/general/hinduism-vs-meat/>>>

  34. @spirit

    ” When you are you talking something about revenge you are surely one sided. ”

    that u’r opinion,i never did like that,i accept all good things from all kind people,reject all bad things from all kind of people. i am not partiality person.

    1) ” Vedas say about monogamy. There is nothing about polygamy ”

    a) brother i posted some verses from hindu scripture,that it suport polygamy here .

    Agniveer Discussions / Universal Religion for Entire humanity / Hinduism / HINDUSM SUPPORT POLYGAMY:

    b)dhasharada marry 3 wifes,is it,my questions to u,in any where in ramayana,expalined he did sinned ?,any one rama,hanuman,sita,etc claim that he did sinned thing, is it sinned things,why are they critizise him?

    c) read Agniveer Discussions / Universal Religion for Entire humanity / islam/why islam allow polygamy to men.?

    my questions to you,i include 7 situation an ideal person or society requred polygamy,if
    these situation came in hindu person/ society,what they do except polygamy?

    • Pranam Brother Shabeer

      You are in favor of revenge. Now tell me how are you going to take the revenge. By killing the apostates??????
      You accept all good things from kind people but your Zakir does not. He says that everyone excepting allah and his messenger will go to eternal fire. And Zakir Bhai MBBS is your most authentic person 😉 isn’t he??????

      and rest of your query would do here:
      http://agniveer.com/4982/polygamy-hinduism-hi/

      Dhanyawad

  35. Pranam Brother Shabeer, you ask yourself why are you copy-pasting? Its a favorite hobby of urs. And thanks for letting us know that this is a discussion site. Otherwise we wouldnot know that. We are talking about civilization of millions of years (i.e. Vedas). U want evidences? When we say, ‘the earth moves round the sun’ we dont need to provide evidence. It, itself a evident. But if u even need more evident just go through the article ‘ scientific errors in hinduism’ written by agniveer. Understanding vedas is not as hard as solving non linear equations. U just need to be rational. May you come back home (i.e. Vedas) Dhanyawad.

      • Pranam Brother Shabeer

        I guess you are saying about the decision/judgement of the religion. I can explain it. The Vedas are ultimate wisdom. When you want to finalize your wisdom you need to go through the Vedas. Vedas are the oldest books of the earth. You can say that they are as old as the earth. Sri Dayanand proved that Vedas have been completed about 3.8 billion years ago.

        Now if you are the truth seeker and want to know the basic of Vedic religion you have to rational. The decision made by Vedas are very important. You need to have a deep study and discussion for understanding them.

        You won’t see any kind of story here. No story has taken place here. There is nothing about pedophilia, rape, loot, hate, lust, revenge, etc etc. When you are you talking something about revenge you are surely one sided. Therefore, your words would become merely for a some group of people rather than for a whole humanity. Vedas say about monogamy. There is nothing about polygamy. And people thinking and preaching about polygamy (like Zakir Bhai M.B.B.S) in Vedas are merely a rumor. Now it’s upon you whether believing in rumor or in the truth.

        Vedas say about oneness of Eshvar. There is none like him. He is the one. If you think there is some partners with Him He will not throw you in the eternal hell fire (as fuel )

        Vedas do say about the reservation of the right of animals. Vedas condemns slaughtering of animals. Vedas strictly punish those people who are meat-eater. You cannot expect any kind of compassion from them ( the meat eaters). Vedas believe in living life without harming anyone. Vedas say that cows are the next mothers of human after the birth-giving mother.

        Vedas hold the women in profound respect. Vedas don’t tell us to stone woman. Vedas teach us to think everywoman except wife is equivalent to mothers. We learn from Vedas that women are as respectable as Devi.

        Vedas permit us to ask questions. It doesn’t say that if we do not believe in Vedas we will be being thrown to eternal fire…

  36. TO ALL MEMBERS OF AGNIVEER:

    WHY IAM COPY-PASTING?

    this is discussion sites,we discuss the religious faith,not yestarday 20-20 match or latest boly wood film.we dicussing thousand of years civilasation,people belief.if we critizise these theory,it is to be better critizise,one should be bring the evidance from the scripture.

    i don’t understand why we critizise religious things one or two or three line?

    what are the quality of an ideal critiziser?

    he brings the evidence from scripture
    he include past,present and future practibility,scholors openion about the verses.

    iam preparing subject from diffrent books and sites.my methord of posting the entire subject at once(bec’s no more possibility to questioning about the subject)

    • Brother Shabeer, when you copy paste the article, why dont you copy paste the comment section addressing the questions raised in the article too? Why this “selective” copy pasting? 🙂
      Of course you are free to discuss buddy. I pointed out that most of your arguements have been dealt out previously by the commentators here with other muslim scholars. Why repeat the same thing again and again when you can read the previous dicsussions. I referred to you Indian Agnostic’s debates as a start.

    • Brother Shabeer

      Your irrelevant copy pasted stuff has been purged. It will be done in future too if you continue to misuse this forum by posting baseless bogus stories. We hope your stay here is for constructive discussions with the purpose of seeking/sharing knowledge and not for showing your expertise in using ctrl c and ctrl v.

      Thanks

    • There is no benefit of discussing with fools like you, who just cant dare to accept the truth. I have answered many questions raised by you, you could not counter argue with my answer, but later after some time raised the same questions before different persons. This shows truth about you, you are simply a fanatic, who just cant accept the truth.

    • @ Shabeer, you are wrong. Sanskrit & Vedas originated 3.8 billion years ago. Did you no know this? They are as old as earth. Please do more investigations and you will find that out.

  37. ORIGIN OF VERDICT LANGUAGE:

    According to old Hindu pundit belief, there is only one language during the period of creation. (Naredra bushan: history of Vedic sahithia page 27).Most of the Hindu scholar make that verdict language was Sanskrit. But Sanskrit created by human how can it will be a gods language?

    ”this verdict language not belongs to our today Sanskrit. Sanskrit originated from Vedic Terminology, it depend only the code of Veda, so it being a human language “(Ibid, Page 39) According to language scholar the Sanskrit originated and more related from the Iranian verdict language avastha.They claim the similarity between the Rig-Veda and avastha. (Ibid, Page 41) Sree krishan chaithanya says that “the Egyptian and Mesopotamian language older than the verdict language “(barath encyclopedia vol 2: page731)

    According to Dayanand Saraswathi Veda originated 1310 million years ago, this is only his opinion there is no a single clear and valid evidence about his claim.

    All the historian and language scholar criticize his opinion.

    1. According Max Muller, Rig-Veda originated the period between BC 800 to BC1000 (Fredric Max Muller: The Vedas, Page 25)

    2. According to Winternist Rig-Veda has originated 2500 years ago, some scholar claim 4000 years ago.

    3. The verses of rig-Veda originated 1200 years ago before the Jesus (E.G. Rapson: Ancient India, Page 5)

    4. According to DR. S. Radhakrishnan: Veda originated 15 century before the Jesus (Dr. S. Radhakrishnan: Indian Philosophy Vol. 1, Page 37)

    The difference between the scholars and dyananda sarwathi that their allegation had lot evidence from history and language science, but sarawathi and arya samaj never given single evidence abut their claim.

    The entire historian believes Veda vyasa has lived between 12 and15 centuries before the Jesus. How Veda cans Veda originate 1310 million years ago? That the contradiction between the Reality and suspicious.

    Most of the Hindu pundits believe that Vyasan split the Veda into four after the…

    • Pranam brother Shabeer

      You really claimed some funny evidences,,,,,,,,:D
      At first when are you saying something about Vedas you need to be rational. Any irrationality would not help you. You said that Agniveer is not backed by any proof. Let me ask a question ‘ how much proof do you need to explore the truth?’ What do you get evidence from Zakir Bhai MBBS? Is it his favorite 2+2=5??? You mentioned that Sanskrit is not the language of divine.
      You said that
      ——According to Dayanand Saraswathi Veda originated 1310 million years ago, this is only his opinion there is no a single clear and valid evidence about his claim.———

      you find there is no base of evidence by Sri dayanand ……………………….
      so what sorts of evident you get from these comments:

      ——————-1. According Max Muller, Rig-Veda originated the period between BC 800 to BC1000 (Fredric Max Muller: The Vedas, Page 25)

      2. According to Winternist Rig-Veda has originated 2500 years ago, some scholar claim 4000 years ago.

      3. The verses of rig-Veda originated 1200 years ago before the Jesus (E.G. Rapson: Ancient India, Page 5)

      4. According to DR. S. Radhakrishnan: Veda originated 15 century before the Jesus (Dr. S. Radhakrishnan: Indian Philosophy Vol. 1, Page 37)——————-

      are these evedences enough?????????????

      Please remind that we are all sons of One Eshvar………………….
      Do not accept anything blindly…………..you are permitted to question Vedas and surely will get the answers……………
      Just focus on the basic concept of Vedas…………….. Have you ever gone through Vedas??????????

      Don’t question Vedas by the likes of quacks like MBBS Bhai……………………………..

      May you return your home (i.e. Vedas)……………………….

  38. @Vajra

    If Vedas were natural religion why people ignore it 😀 😀 :D: 😀

    What is your problem with Islam. Why you bring in them when we talking @ Vedas.
    Are you kind of born cynical.

    So what does Brahma do? Whats his history. Any proof in Vedas rishis got so called
    inner inspiration . any human form can do that why only rishis. just admit it its man made
    religion.

    Mr Charvak_pathik if you have knowledge of answering then why dont you initiate to me. why order your beloved prophet agniveer to answer.

    • @hello

      ———–If Vedas were natural religion why people ignore it———–

      Most of the Momins ignore science and wisdom. But that does not make those worth rejecting for wise. Truth (oneness of mind, tongue and action) is natural yet the least practiced phenomenon worldwide. But that does not make falsehood superior than Truth.

      ————What is your problem with Islam. Why you bring in them when we talking @ Vedas.————

      I do it because Truth that human can perceive is relative in nature. He can never claim to achieve ultimate Truth but can always choose better option than he currently has. And choosing cant happen with one option alone 🙁 Thus this comparison.

      ———–Are you kind of born cynical.———-

      No.

      ———–So what does Brahma do? Whats his history.————

      He was Rishi of next generation to first four Rishis. Read Shatpath Brahman for history.

      ———— Any proof in Vedas rishis got so called inner inspiration . ———-

      Will you accept proof from Vedas? If no then why asking something that you are anyway going to reject If yes then promise that after I tell you, you accept Vedas divine.

      ———-any human form can do that why only rishis. ————

      Rishis are not someone having four legs or a tail 🙂 They are HUMANS (great souls/scholars)

      ———-just admit it its man made religion.————

      Why? What have you done to it so that I admit so?

      • @Vajra

        “———— Any proof in Vedas rishis got so called inner inspiration . ———-

        Will you accept proof from Vedas? If no then why asking something that you are anyway going to reject If yes then promise that after I tell you, you accept Vedas divine.”

        are you kind of compelling me to believe it. if you have evidence then just give
        it simple

        “———–If Vedas were natural religion why people ignore it———–

        Most of the Momins ignore science and wisdom. But that does not make those worth rejecting for wise. Truth (oneness of mind, tongue and action) is natural yet the least practiced phenomenon worldwide. But that does not make falsehood superior than Truth.”

        Where as far as i know there are many muslim scientist who hova contribute to this
        world. Why you being so hypocrite just because they are Muslims you cannot give respect? Come out of your own world and look around. If you can prove me wrong below list that they are fake I salute you. My respect for scientist or scholars is same as much as I have for Aryabhata or Newton.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

  39. Agniveer Mahodaya, who is this “hello” character exactly (most likely a taqqiya expert) and how come his query still hasn’t been answered?? Why don’t you make turn into “bye bye”??

  40. @Agniveer says

    “2. Even if Brahma mastered Vedas directly and the 4 Rishis mentioned were actually something else, how does that change the reality? Vedas still remain the oldest text and unchanged as per best available evidences. They also contain nothing objectionable to our understanding and further themselves ask us to think logically rather than accept things blindly. What else do we need as a better foundation?”

    What is the reality of how Vedas were derived? Is this man made. First learn Sanskrit
    then you learn oops Rishis were not once who got Vedas, Brahma also comes in picture.

    1. What is role of Brahma according to Vedas.

    2. Why suddenly he also communicate with God?

    3. If God is unseen & unheard, How can you hear God then Mr Agniveer please provide
    some light on this question? Love to hear from you. Think logically then accept thinks
    blindly like you said.

    • Namaste hello

      ———–What is the reality of how Vedas were derived?———-

      There is no derivation. Vedas are believed to be from Eeshvar who inspires greatest/purest of the souls at the inception with the knowledge of Vedas.

      ———– Is this man made.———–

      No.

      ———-First learn Sanskrit then you learn oops————

      Knowledge is not for illiterates or for those who are proud of being followers of illiterate (Ummi) like Jihadis who follow an illiterate prophet. You have to learn basics of Maths/Physics/logic/language in order to explore Maths/Physics/philosophy/any scripture. Anything wrong in it? Can you understand Quran without knowing Arabic?

      ———- Rishis were not once who got Vedas, Brahma also comes in picture.———

      So what is your point? Is coming Brahma into the picture more ridiculous than coming Gabriel into the picture b/w the communication of Allah and Muhammad?

      ———–1. What is role of Brahma according to Vedas.———-

      No person is discussed in Vedas, so there is no mention of Rishi Brahma in Vedas. However Brahma is one of the names of Eeshvar as well.

      ————-2. Why suddenly he also communicate with God?————-

      He learned Vedas from first four Rishis and then propagated the knowledge. It was not at all sudden. He practiced and explored Vedas. He made his soul pure in order to experience bliss/knowledge of Eeshvar in his soul. You can also do that if you stop dreaming 72 whores of imaginary heaven and stop wetting your clothes in dreams of their transparent bodies with heavy br***s and but*s in the nights.

      ————3. If God is unseen & unheard, How can you hear God then Mr Agniveer please provide some light on this question?———-

      Hearing God means experiencing His inspiration within the soul.

      ————- Love to hear from you.———–

      Not all comments merit responses from Agniveer. I think yours belongs to the same category.

      ———– Think logically then accept thinks blindly like…

  41. Great Rebuttal!

    the most important aspect the jihadis fail to comprehend is the distinction between Samhita ( with rishi as observer, devata as process of observation and chhandas as observed) and mantra /brahmana

  42. What about Bible? Moses started his own storey called Tora to guide his people while leading them back to Isreal from Egypt and later Israelites add-on the fairy tales to that. Jesus came to pinpoint Israelites mistakes, but he was killed by King Pilate due to his daring nature. His disciples don’t know what to do after Jesus death, and started cookup stories based on his death and conspirated selling it to everyone.

    In early 7th century, Mohammad noticed spreading of Christianity by cooking up Jesus story. Since he was devoid of stories and ideas, he also started to do some conspiracy by copying bible stories, principles from zorostranism, Hinduism and cooked up 6666 verses for his Quran. He took the sword to spread it in his own country. His followers did the samething to spread it across the world.

    How can be Hinduism inferior than the above two religions?

  43. Parameshwar & Cosmos:
    —————————–
    It is not only one Universe in this space, but many. How they can form? During the Big Bang, one single giant spinning ball shatters into trillion power of trillion power of trillion power of trillion (so on) minute individual spinning balls. 99.9999999…..% of those particles falls into that single cosmos to form Universe and very small trace amount of particles escapes out from the dense cloud of particles and they travel very far away from this Universe. Those escaped particles travel in different direction and from there they start to inflate to form new Universe(s). Those particle within the cosmos looses its power of inflation due to formation of energy field around the cosmos of the Universe. Each escaped subatomic particle can form one Universe, but it will take again few or many billion years from that point of time. In every formation of Universe, there are trace amount of escaped particles which are seeds for further formation of new Universes. Outside our Universe, there are millions or even billions of Universe might be existing. Out of them, some under formation, others still in inflation state. Our Universe might be either the parent or child.

    Human minds are unable to apprehend or comprehend or visualize the vastness of the cosmos of the Universes, but our mind can understand them. Lord Shiva is the most simplest picturization of the cosmos given by our ancestors for humankind to meditate, worship, and praise. If you worship Lord Shiva, it is the most powerful worship on the earth compare to any other Gods.

  44. I have nothing personally against Sonia Gandhi, in fact she probably is a good person to win the allegiance of so many and certainly a loving mother. I share with her a love for India, like her I have lived in this country for over 30 years and like her I have married an Indian. But nevertheless, since she is at the top, Christian conversions in India seem to have gone in overdrive. More than 4,000 foreign Christian missionaries are involved in conversion activities across different states. In Tripura, there were no Christians at independence; there are 120.000 today, a 90% increase since 1991. The figures are even more striking in Arunachal Pradesh, where there were only 1710 Christians in 1961, but 1,2 million today, as well as 780 churches! In Andhra Pradesh, churches are coming-up every day in far flung villages and there was even an attempt to set-up one near Tirupati. Many of the North-East separatist movements, such as the Mizo or the Bodos, are not only Christian dominated, but also sometimes function with the covert backing of the missionaries. In Kerala, particularly in the poor coastal districts, you find “miracle boxes” put in local churches: the gullible villager writes out a paper mentioning his wish: a fishing boat, a loan for a pukka house, fees for the son’s schooling… And lo, a few weeks later, the miracle happens! And of course the whole family converts, making others in the village follow suit. During the Tsunami, entire dalit villages in Tamil Nadu were converted to Christianity with the lure of money.

    It is true that there have been a few backlashes against missionaries and nuns, particularly the gruesome murder of Graham Steins and his two sons. But Belgium historian Koenraad Elst laments that « When over a thousand Hindus are killed and a quarter million Hindus ethnically cleansed in Kashmir, the world media doesn’t even notice, but watch the worldwide hue and cry when a few local riots take place and a few missionaries are killed by unidentified tribal miscreants. Christian Naga…

  45. Karma (Thoughts & Action) in Hinduism
    ——————————————————————
    What makes one person different from another? Why is one person Kind intelligent, talented or wise and the brother or sister is the opposite? Modern answers to this questions often center around the effects of heredity or environment, also it is believed that that there is a connection with the past and the next life as well, every action or every thought has its consequence, marking the individual internally, an effect felt in this life or in a succeeding one.
    Karma theory from Hinduism has been copied to semitic theologies as a hell & heaven concept to intimidate its followers from doing bad things in their life or to others. In historical time, those beliefs has been spread via merchants, caravans, visitors, or forced into people’s mind when their kingdom falls into enemy’s hand.
    It is not so great thing what Bible or Quran had in its scriptures and claimed by revelation of God. Even Moses 10 commandments came from his gained knowledge from other people’s theologies by hear-say (Egypt & India, & Iran) and he very well connected his knowledge to God to make Israelites to follow in Exodus.

  46. My Guruji Swami Ramswarupa ji asked a question to all of us what is veda. We all said one or other worldly definitions. The explanation He gave was beautiful. (Recently i visited for purna ahuti of yajen of all 4 vedas). He said vedas writen in printed form is samhita, Vedas chanted by learned of vedas / brahmins is also not vedas as their intellect is made of 5 elements of nature. “Sushrunaam dheeranaam”, he quoted this verse and said rishis have said that they are listening this knowledge traditionally from Yogis’s who have achieved dharamyajen samadhi. He explained that a yogi who has achieved samadhai has a intellect different from a normal human being. This is called alokik budhi or Ritambhara tatra prgya by rishi patanjali in Patanjalai yoga darshanam. So Rishis were always in state of samadhi and in this stage the voice of God in the shape of vedas flows from a Rishi. Patanjali rishi clearly mentioned this that almighty God manifest in the 8th stage of astanga yoga sadhana in the heart of practitioner of yoga, further the knowledge of four vedas should manifest in the practioner of yoga at samadhi stage. Infact The eternal process of creation says in every creation by the power of God the knowledge of 4 vedas will be manifested in four souls who are the wothiest among all at the beginning with words /meaning etc. THe first person who receives this knowledge from completely from four Rishis is called Brahma as per sanskrit.

    So vedas are the voice of God emerging through a yogi in the state of samadhi. Such a yogi does not require book/wrote learning. Remember Preach of Lord Krishna to arjun was also in state of samadhi. In such a state yogi says i , aham etc. Many verses of Geeta if studied carefully reflect this. Infact swamiji shared with us many experiences of his astanga yoga sadhana, with my reading and practice of astanga yoga sadhna i cherish to listen to a Rishi who is a mantra drishta and who has undergone all.

      • Suka narrated to rishis the Vedavyasa Bhagawans MahaBharatha. Like that you chirped so sweetly your guru vani . Really it kindled in me enormous interest to know more of these and more of myself. Thank you sister I dont know you are little or big like akka.GOOD DAY AND GOD BE WITH YOU

    • Rashmi, WOW. WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW………. That was very well said. I am impressed Rashmi. And I don’t get impressed easily. Thank you for writing.

      The important point you made is reaching the state of samadhi and becoming the Rishi. Also it is important to note anyone can achieve the state of Samadhi and become a Rishi. The essence of the Vedas and Gita is just that. We are to do Yoga and reach that higher state of consciousness so we can connect with the highest state of consciousness, God. And the key difference between the prophet concept and Rishi concept is a Rishi is open to anyone. Anyone can become one. A prophet is exclusive while a Rishi is inclusive. Prophet concept is history centric. Only that one person in that one time can become a prophet. No one else can experience what that prophet experience and verify it. But with the Rishi anyone can experience what the Rishi experienced and verify what they experience. We just need to practice Yoga and meditation.

      Dhanyavad,
      Krishnarao

    • @RASHMI , MAM I ALSO FOLLOW SWAMIJI ON HIS WEBSITE AND READ HIS BOOKS,BRAHMCHARYA EK DUKH NIVARAK MANI AND BHAGWAD GEETA EK VEDIC RAHASYA(ALL 4 PARTS).I WOULD ALSO RECOMMEND AGNIVEER SIR TO PLZ READ THESE BOOKS.THESE BOOKS ARE SIMPLY INCREDIBLE..BHAGWAD GEETA IS SIMPLY BEST AND I M YET TO FIND THAT QUALITY LEVEL AND VERY CONVINCING ,GEETA LIKE THAT OF SWAMI RAM SWAROOP JI MAHARAJ..ITS HIGHLY COMPREHENSIVE AND GIVES US TRUE PICTURE..REST GEETAS AVAILABLE ARE SIMPLY TRASH.CHANGING WHOLE MEANIG OF THE VERSES.ONLY KNOWER OF VEDAS CAN GIVE CORRECT TRANSLATION AND PURPORT..MAM I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK ,DOES SWAMIJI TEACHES VEDAS HIMSELF.AS I M LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO TEACH ME..THOUGH I M STUDYING BOOKS OF DAYANDA WHICH SWAMIJI RECOOMENDED ME WHEN I ASKED HIM ON NET..BUT STILL ONLY YAJURVED I M ABLE TO UNDERSTSND .N THAT TO ONLY PARTS RELATED TO KARAMKAND’LIKE FAMILY ,MARRIAGE,STATE,POLITICS N ADMINISTRATION..BUT I WANT TO MOVE AHAED NOW..

    • Brother’s here are few references to substantiate this fact……..

      Let us observe this Vedic Mantra of Rigveda

      *Cakracasah parinaham prthivya{Rig veda 1.33.8}
      It says”people who reside on the surface of earth circumference”

      many vedic verses ;many of them proclaim the spherical shape of the earth.

      * madhye samantandasya bhugolo vyomni tisthati{12th ch-32 sloka}
      It means ‘In the midst of universe{Brahmanda},the spherical earth stands firm in the space”

      rest you can ask from agniveer directly at forum.
      link to discussion forum in top of page! or follow this link
      http://agniveer.com/forum/
      the first section is ask agniveer!

      • @ krishna arya Bhaisaheb, don’t you think that your translation of the last verse you mentioned (Rig Veda 12:32) is faulty, sincein reality, the Earth cannot be standing firm at all in space…I think u were probably refering to the Earth as “stable” and not “firm”? Of course, “firm” itself has many different meanings, some of which are “fixed securely and unlikely to give way”, “showing no or few fluctuations” and also “showing certainty or determination” among others, and not just “fixed and stationary”. I sicerely hope that by “firm” you weren’t refering to fixed and stationary at all!!!

      • Besides, the Earth has now been proved to be spheroidal oblate (spherical, but a little flat at the poles), rather than a perfect sphere by scientists!! Do the Vedas speak of that as well? I sincerely hope that they indeed do!!!

      • We don’t know. There may be verses but we have not researched on it because it matters little. Unlike other texts that are touted as book of ‘signs’ and not ‘science’, Vedas are books of ‘science’. Even if Vedas contain details of exact shape of earth, or height of atmosphere, or number of moons of Jupiter etc, that does not make it a book of science. It then becomes something like Nostradamus book. And if all such ‘scientific facts’ are to be listed, Vedas would be a billion page book.

        Vedas on contrary provide a process of thinking and extol humans to explore further. They provide the seed and not the tree. Wherever any mention of scientifically known phenomena has come, it is more as an example to explain something deeper than a fact in it. From this we do gather that Vedas are way beyond primitive texts as claimed by many skeptics. And we are provided with means to move ahead to know further by ourselves.

        Now one can dig up Vedas to find a particular scientific fact. That may be available, that may be not. But its presence or absence in itself does not make it a scientific book. For me, Vedas are scientific books because whatever is written is so intuitive, rational, devoid of contradictions and provides clue to move ahead and explore more truths ourselves.

        I believe Quran may be a better book to explore ‘miracles’ because it is book of ‘signs’ and not ‘science’ as per eminent scientists like ZN.

      • Agniveer Mahashay,
        Great feedback!! But, I take strong offence to your calling ZN fanatic an “eminent scientist”!! It is an insult to all of the global Scientist and Researcher fraternity. I am a man of science and I don’t fancy myself being clubbed with the likes of that taqiyya master par excellence!!

      • Agniveer is fighting for a lost cause. hinduism / paganism is full of apocryphal, made up, cooked up cock n bull stories & figment of imagination, light years far from science & truth. No wonder our country is ranked 136 now in terms of human development index and we are suffering from the menace of over-population & corruption. I attribute all the problems to this paganism culture, the root cause of all evil. Looks like there is a divine anathema which has come upon to our country because of this paganism/occultism/satanism. Every concept in hindu mythology is diabolical & fiendish including the vedas.

      • Suv,

        People like you are the problem. You have not even read the Vedas and make these claims. I would have believed you if I didn’t read even a bad translation of the Vedas. After reading the Vedas, I know you are a total and utter liar. The problem in India is people depend to much on hearsay and not on facts. That is the problem. And like you, people do not do RESEARCH and actually go to the source. And because I am a man of science and choose to go to sources, I have decided to actually go look up a copy of the Vedas translated into English by a Vedic follower and it made sense.

        Next time before you post, try not to do reverse engineering. Where you take a person who is only Hindu by name, but has never read the Vedas. If you reverse engineer, of course you will get a lot of wonky Hindus and wonky definition of Hinduism. Instead, GO TO THE SOURCE. If you know Hindi, Agniveer has posted some great material for you to read.

        You should start with what is the Vedic God. And you will see, Vedic Hindus believe in ONE GOD, not mythology. And actually are against Idol worship in all it forms. Also against the concept of son-of-god, prophets, godmen, incarnations, and all that non-sense. Vedic people believe anyone can connect directly to God. They just need to meditation and use Yoga (real Yoga, not just the stretching [and real Yoga is talked about in the Vedas]) and they can personally connect with God. Vedic people ask to reproduce, not depend on other people.

        And in regards to corruption and all that stuff you mention. This is happening because people are not following the the principles of the Vedas. If they were, they would have left those myths, idolotry, sonofgod/prophet/godman/incranation worship.

  47. One after the another…a chain of good articles being produced by your team….in last 10 days or so more articles were added than ever before…..great going…it is almost like as if we wait for the next new article to come up on your website to find out what new you may have this time….!

  48. @ Akhila: That is called conditioning. You will see it in play more at IH’s post on Vedas and world peace. Our friendly author’s latest response is a combo of conditioning and stonewalling.

  49. @Apolloreach : In your argument there, you said the same sentence, but the reply from the other side proved they know the truth, but don’t dare to accept.

    • Just because someone claims or a book claims to have the truth does not make it so. Only a weak minded fool would think in such terms. Let’s use our brains for once. Be human.

  50. Those that integrate Eloha / Elohim and Allah / Rab purposefully refuse to view the integrated nature of Brahma, Prajapati, the syllable OM and Agni/Vayu. It is by design and how much ever the premise is proved to be a hoax they cling on to these unintelligent ideas.

    • @Agniveer/Apollo/Other Vedic Scholar
      As in Kuran writer starts the book with name of God & God glorification as:-
      [1:1] In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
      [1:2] Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.
      [1:3] Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
      But How Veda start. Who is addressing in First mantra of Veda & which is first mantra of Veda. Please explain meaning of first Mantra of Veda. & From which Veda that is (Rig, Yajur, Sam, Athar) first mantra starts.

      • thevery first statement n Rig Veda(the first Veda) is
        agnimi le purohitham,yajnasyadevamrdhvijam,hotharam rathna dhaathamam”.meaning,” i laud Agni,the chosen priest,the minister of yajna and laishest of wealth”.
        agni symbolises the inner reality,the paramathma who pervades all(rig veda 2/1) and is the supreme light .here,that pramathma is invoked as the “priest”,the one who guides us and who masters our yajna(an action done as an offering for others’ benefit).

    • [Rigveda Mandal 9; Sookt 113; Mantra 8]
      Ans. The devta (subject) of this mantra is ‘Som.
      “YATRA RAJA VAIVASVATO YATRAVARODHANAM DIVAH.
      YATRA MOOYAHRITI RAAPASTATRA MAAMAMRITAM KRIDHEENYENDO PARISRAVA.”

      (YATRA) in which state (VAIVASVATAHA, RAJA) kaal i.e., time –
      morning, evening etc., is the king. Here, the meaning of Vaivasvataha, as per Nirukta granth 10/20 is the time of death. The time of death in the whole world is achieved by all matters of the universe and at proper time, all matters of world are generated and get destroyed at an appropriate time. Therefore, time of death is itself a king. (YATRA) where (AVRODHANAM DIVAHA) where there is effect of day and night, at all times (YATRA) where (AMUHU, YAHAVATIHI, APAHA) there is importance of the said spiritual matters (TATRA) in that state (MAAM) me (AMRITAM KRIDHI) make immortal i.e., Oh! God in that state make me immortal i.e., by following the Vedic path, we overcome the death and get salvation. (INDO) Oh! God, You (INDRAYE) for a learned Yogi (PARI, SRAVA) become the reason of giving a title of deciding truth and falsehood i.e., God, Himself gives a tittle to a Yogi to enable him to decide truth and untruth.
      I also paste few other articles for your information, please.

      Rigveda mantra 1/13/3—
      “NARASHANSAMIHA PRIYAMASMINYAJ UP HAVE.
      MADHUJIHAVUM HAVISHKRITAM.”

      I (Asmin Yajye) in this yajyen and (Iha) in this world (Havishkritam) the matter which is offered in burning fire of yajyen (Madhujihvum) whose seven enlightened tongues i.e., flames of fire are those
      [those seven flames are called –
      (1) kali which produces white coloured light;
      (2) karali – very hard to bear;
      (3) Manojava – as fast in speed as mann (mind);
      (4) Sulohita – which is of red colour;
      (5) Sudhoomra-varnna – whose shape is blurred;
      (6) Sfoolinginni – in which several sparks of fire are seen.
      (7) Vishwaroopee- which is of the shape of world.]

      (Priyam) which gives love to all souls and (Nareshansam) that happiness which is praised by all human-beings…

      • Cont…….
        (Priyam) which gives love to all souls and (Nareshansam) that happiness which is praised by all human-beings (Uphavaye) I ignite the said fire to perform yajyen.
        Idea:- In this world, the fire which is utilized to perform yajyen/agnihotra is beneficial to all mankind. The said fire has seven flames quoted above. In fact, everyone enjoys great benefit from the fire by using the same in homes while preparing food and doing other domestic jobs, in atomic energy, in transportation etc.Most important pious deed which has been defined in Vedas, which is for the benefit of entire mankind, is holy Yajyen, in which the fire is used. So, the meaning of Narashansum in this mantra is adorable, praiseworthy and the fire is praiseworthy because it gives us several benefit including life.

        So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned person and King or adorable praiseworthy Almighty God. Because both are praiseworthy among all human-beings.

        In this connection explanation of Atharvaveda Mantra 20/127/1 is also appended below:-
        IDAM JANAA UP SHRUTA NARASHANSA STVISHYATE.
        SHASHTIM SAHASTRA NAVTIM CHA KAURAM AA RUSHMESHU DADMAHE.

        (JANAHA) Oh! Men (IDAM) this preach (UP SHRUTA) listen with respect that (NARASHANSAHA) the adorable praise worthy person (STAVISHYATE) will be respected/honoured always. (KAURAM) Oh! King! On earth (SHASHTIM SAHASTRA) 60,000 (CHA) and (NAVTIM) 90 i.e., several donations (RUSHMESHU) amongst the warriors who destroy the violent people (AA DADMAHE) we get.

        Idea:- In this mantra, the duty of the King has been mentioned. The dignitary, who is praiseworthy, will always be honoured. Therefore the King on earth should donate to deserving and praise worthy dignitaries.
        So, in the mantra, Camel riding has not been mentioned and the meaning of 60,090 relates to several donations to the praiseworthy dignitary and the said donation should be given by the King in social gathering of warriors.

        So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned…

      • So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned person and King or adorable praiseworthy Almighty God. Because both are praiseworthy among all human-beings.

        Rigveda mantra 1/18/9-
        “ NARASHANSUM SUDHRISTAMUMAPASHYAM SAPRTHASTAMUM.
        DIVO NA SADMAKHSUM.”

        I (Na) like the sun and other heavenly bodies which emit light (Sadmakhsum) in which all the living beings exist similarly (saparthastamum) Who is Omnipresent (Sudhristamum) holds the universe (Narashansum) adorable/praiseworthy among all human beings. (sadsaspatim) He is the God, Who is our Lord. (Apashyam) I see Him through wisdom i.e., I realise Him in Samadhi. Yaks Muni in his Nirukta Granth (8/5) while explaining Rigveda mantra 7/2/2, explains the meaning of Narashansa as under:-
        (Asmin) in this yajyen (Aaseenaha) while sitting (Naraha) human-beings (Sansati) praise the God i.e., all the devotees who are sitting in the yajyen offer their aahuti (oblations) in the burning fire and also chant the ved mantras. So, Yask Muni tell another meaning of pious word “Narashansa” as ‘Yajyen” and Yajyen is adorable as well as praiseworthy. Naturally, we’ve to follow the meaning of Narashansa which is “praiseworthy”, “Adorable’, and is mentioned in eternal knowledge of Vedas as well as in granths written by ancient Rishis like Nirukta.
        (Nare) Human being (Shansum) praiseworthy i.e., he who is praiseworthy amongst human-beings. We must know that in Vedas, no proper noun is given by Almighty God accept His own names.
        So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned person and King or adorable praiseworthy Almighty God. Because both are praiseworthy among all human-beings.

        Rigveda mantra 1/106/4-
        “NARASHANSUM VAAJINUM VAAJAYANNIH KHASHYADVEERUM POOSHNNUM SUMNAIREEMAHE.
        RATHAM NA DURGADVASAVAH SUDANAVO VISHVASMAANNO ANHASOO NISHPIPARTAN.”

        Idea of the mantra is –
        We should make contact with Nareshansum, the praiseworthy, learned persons to achieve happiness and to overcome the sorrows.
        So, the pious word “…

      • Rigveda mantra 1/106/4-
        “NARASHANSUM VAAJINUM VAAJAYANNIH KHASHYADVEERUM POOSHNNUM SUMNAIREEMAHE.
        RATHAM NA DURGADVASAVAH SUDANAVO VISHVASMAANNO ANHASOO NISHPIPARTAN.”
        Idea of the mantra is –
        We should make contact with Nareshansum, the praiseworthy, learned persons to achieve happiness and to overcome the sorrows.
        So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned person and King or adorable praiseworthy Almighty God. Because both are praiseworthy among all human-beings.

        Rigveda mantra 1/142/3 –
        “SHUCHI PAAVAKO ADBHUTO MADHVA YAJUM MIMIKSHATI.
        NARASHANSASTIRA DIVO DEVO DEVESHU YAJIYAHA.”

        He (Paavakaha) who is pious, pure, sacred like fire(Adbhutaha) has surprising qualities and nature (Shuchihi Yajyaha) liable to perform pious yajyen (Narashansaha) is praiseworthy amongst human-beings and (Devaha Deveshu) while desiring in the learned and (Divaha Madhva) with sweet meals (Yajum Trihi Aa mimikshati) perform yajyen for three times, he attains happiness.

        Idea:-
        The person who in his childhood, young age and old age listens to Vedas, perform yajyen and spreads the Vedic knowledge to others, he attains pleasure/happiness of three types i.e., of body, of voice and internal peace.

        So, the pious word “ Nareshansum” relates to praiseworthy learned person and King or adorable praiseworthy Almighty God. Because both are praiseworthy among all human-beings.

      • Seriously dude, you posted a bunch of stuff and no one is going to read it. It is unclear and you are all over the place.

        And most important you refuse to post the person who translated your verses?

        The Vedic organization that supports that translation?

        who is the publisher?

        Don’t be weak and provide the answer to the questions above.

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