- Origin of Vedas, Their Inspiration, and Authority
- Textual Preservation in Vedas
- How many mantras are there in Rigveda?
- Who wrote the Vedas?
- No textual corruption in Vedas
We have already dealt this issue in sufficient details in past. However as mentioned in previous article of this series (http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-vedas/) those who believe in death for apostates and hell for everyone except their own gang members have been creating frivolous articles to counter Agniveer. While their frustration is justified (because of reduced dominance in cyberspace), their methods are not.
In this brief article we shall share our views on yet another attempt to attack Vedas simply because they cannot defend their own fanaticism in a logical manner. You can type “Origin of Vedas, Their Inspiration, and Authority” and google out the different versions of said attempt.
As usual, we shall provide a brief of allegation and our response.
Allegation 1: There are conflicting reports on who created the Vedas. There are multiple views and there is no unanimity.
Agniveer:
1. The origin of Vedas is not as simple as a human-like God sitting on some throne sending some angel to narrate divine message to some human being. Vedas represent eternal knowledge that is already within us. Its origin and dissemination is critically linked with creation of universe and propagation of intelligent life. This is one of the most complex subjects. And hence various analogies are used to explain it in a way we can understand.
In reality truth is beyond what we see today. And yet we have to find our way through what we know today to understand what we don’t know yet. This is called Thought-Experiment.
Newton used a thought-experiment to deduce that moon is a falling projectile that does not hit the earth due to its curvature. Now in reality Newton never did such an experiment, nor one can prove if this is indeed historically true. All we know is that this analogy helps us understand laws of motion in universe better.
In same vein, Vedas, Upanishads, Geeta and even Purans use a variety of analogies to explain different aspects of origin of Vedas.
2. Some say that they were first revealed to sages called Agni, Vayu and Aditya. Note that these names are titles and not names printed on their ration cards. Others say that for all practical purpose, Brahma was first person to master the 4 Vedas and propagate to next generation. Again Brahma is a title.
3. Shatpath Brahman gaves a beautiful analogy – That just as exhalation and inhalation happen, all forms of knowledge – Vedas, Upanishads, Formulae, History etc – get manifested and get submerged in Supreme Being. Thus like breathing, this is a cyclical process.
On this analogy, skeptics raise several questions.
First they raise doubt that this shows that God is human like. However this is a silly doubt because this is only an analogy. Knowledge cannot come out from nostrils!
Second, they say that Vedas are not exclusively mentioned. Hence either every knowledge is divine or nothing is divine. This is also shallow logic. Because:
– divinity of Vedas is not same as divinity of Bible or Quran. Divinity in context of Vedas only means that eternal laws of nature as represented in language is unchangeable.
– mention of various fields of knowledge shows a process. First the Vedas are mentioned and then other fields. This means that first wisdom of Vedas is imbibed and then other fields of knowledge emanate from the Vedic wisdom.
– there are other references in scriptures that focus only on Vedas. The objective in this particular shloka was to show a process of knowledge propagation. For more on this refer http://agniveer.com/1553/origin-of-vedas/ and http://agniveer.com/1566/eternity-of-vedas/
Allegation 2: Agniveer claims that Brahma learned the four Vedas from the Rishis. However, according to references from Svetashvatara and Mundak Upanishads, Brahma was directly taught by God and he in turn taught the other Rishis. An interesting point to be noted here is that in the same Kanda, verse 5, Angiras calls the four Vedas as ‘lower knowledge’ (Apra) and says that God cannot be known through the Vedas.
Agniveer:
1. All that the alleged verses state is that Brahma was the first person to master the 4 Vedas and propagate an integrated view to rest of the civilization. Some texts state that 4 other Rishis first had one Vedas each inspired within them and then they together taught Brahma. So there is nothing conflicting here.
2. Even if Brahma mastered Vedas directly and the 4 Rishis mentioned were actually something else, how does that change the reality? Vedas still remain the oldest text and unchanged as per best available evidences. They also contain nothing objectionable to our understanding and further themselves ask us to think logically rather than accept things blindly. What else do we need as a better foundation?
3. Angiras is completely correct in stating that God cannot be known though the Vedas. That is exactly what Agniveer also says. Here what the author means is rote memorization of Vedas or interpretation of Vedas literally without applying mind and implementing them blindly.
Mugging up Vedas verbatim and expecting recitation of mantras to give salvation would be completely fruitless. God – or whatever label you give it – can be known only though activation of Vedas that is within each of us. Please refer our previous 3 articles for more on this:
http://agniveer.com/5095/what-is-vedic-religion/
http://agniveer.com/5132/common-questions-vedic-religion/
http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-vedas/
Allegation 3: There are several references of Rishis being writers of Vedic mantras and not researchers. So Vedas are manmade.
Agniveer:
We shall not comment on who actually created the Vedas. We leave that to individual’s introspection. But we would like to assert that there is no documentary or historical evidence so far for creation of Vedas by any human. For more on this allegation, please refer http://agniveer.com/3937/who-wrote-vedas/ that summarily thrashes this vague allegation.
Allegation 4: Many Rishis even have names similar to words of the mantras attributed to them. Hence they were the creators of those mantras.
Agniveer:
As we mentioned earlier, no Rishi was identified as per his ration card or passport. Legendary persons are known more by deeds or choice than birth name. Thus Subhash Chandra Bose got the name ‘Netaji’. Moolshankar is known as Swami Dayanand Saraswati. Mohandas is more popular has Mahatma Gandhi. Hardly anyone would know what are the real names of people known as Agniveer. Thus Vedic Rishis came to be known by the names exemplifying their researches. Hence we see that Narayana is Rishi of Purusha Sukta, Bhishaq (meaning doctor) is Rishi of Rigveda 10.97 focusing on medicines, Rigveda 10.101 has Rishi Budha Saumya (intellectual and sober person) because the sukta deals with related themes. There are countless such examples.
The point is the Vedic Rishis were not working with agenda of marketing their birth certificates. They were Yogis who were devoted to discovering the nectar of Vedas and rise beyond the cycles of death and birth. Thus name is just a matter of social convenience for them. So, no wonder, names of most Vedic rishis are related to subject of their specializations regardless of their birth name and even gender.
Allegation 5: Panini said that Brahmans are new and old and hence Vedas are not divine.
Agniveer:
When did we claim Brahmans to be divine or eternal? Only the Vedic mantras are eternal as per our traditional knowledge and wisdom. Brahmans are explanations of Vedas by putting them in contemporary contexts. For more, refer http://agniveer.com/1596/vedas/
Allegation 6: Some mantras talk of creation of new verses and being worshipped by new and old Rishis. Hence Vedas are not eternal.
Agniveer:
Which verse talks of creation of new Vedic mantras by human beings? I never heard one. But yes, humanity has always created new verses, new songs, new articles, new poems etc in all creations. There is difference between creation of mantras of Vedas and creation of other verses inspired by Vedas.
Same goes for Rishis – they keep emerging in society. So if a mantras says so, it is eternally true. Vedas are the seeds, but you need to create a tree out of the seed for benefit of self and society.
Allegation 7: Many verses talk of fights with aborigines and drinking alcohol. Hence Vedas are not divine.
Agniveer:
If you read translations by western indologists and those translations that are based on such translations, you are bound to discover similar stupid things. The alcohol myth has been summarily dealt with in http://agniveer.com/3965/soma-alcohol-and-vedas/. Vedas do not believe in aborigines concept. It does talk of fighting out the militants and terrorists. That is what all right-minded governments and armies have been doing since ages. That is what led to death of Osama. So this is a reason to celebrate and not crib over, unless you yourself are a militant. Are you?
This ends the quota of allegations at least for this time. We hope next time we would have something more refined and intellectual to scrutinize. We are tired of dealing with such utterly frivolous works. We pray to the Supreme that He may provide us a break so that we can share something more meaningful and useful with our visitors without further distractions.
[mybooktable book=”divine-vedas” display=”summary” buybutton_shadowbox=”false”]
[mybooktable book=”complete-works-agniveer” display=”summary” buybutton_shadowbox=”false”]
Max Muller intention and motive behind these fake translation can be judged by the content of one of his letter to the Dean of St. Paul’s (Dr. Milman), Stauton House Bournemouth, February 26, 1867, he wrote:
“I have myself the strongest belief in the growth of Christianity in India. There is no country so ripe for Christianity as India, and yet the difficulties seem enormous.” and also
To Chevalier Bunsen, 55 St. John Street, Oxford, August 25, 1856, he wrote:
“I should like to live for 10 years quite quietly and learn the language, try to make friends, and then see whether I was fit to take part in a work, by means of which the old mischief of Indian priestcraft could be overthrown and the way opened for the entrance of simple Christian teaching.Whatever finds root in India soon overshadows the whole of Asia.”
Do you still want proof?
@Nikhil Bro, another very IMPORTANT FACTOR WHICH EXPOSES INDOLOGIST HYPOCRISY is by EXAMINING ONE FACT that is those who have read bible and VEDAS would easily know that one of the important GOSPEL OF BIBLE (GOSPEL OF JOHN) STARTS WITH A VEDIC VERSE. GOSPEL OF JOHN’S FIRST VERSE (JOHN 1:1) IS A COPY PASTE OF VEDIC VERSE. “In the beginning was word …………”
Why did hypocrite Indologist like Max Muller, Griffith and other Indologist hid this fact, obviously they are Christian Missionary agent and nicely know that if these secrets come to western public christianity will be destroyed, BANK OF VATICAN WILL BECOME BANKRUPT.
“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” Christians think this verse from Bible shows the divinity of Jesus Christ but this verse shows PERVERTED ORIGINS OF CHRISTANITY and this verse also has association with Easter.
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html
The FOUNDERS OF PROTESTANT MOVEMENT KNEW THE PERVERTED ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY THAT IS WHY THEY STOPPED THE WORSHIP OF MARY BUT DIDN’T STOP THE WORSHIP OF JESUS (LOL) FOR THAT THEY GIVE THE EXCUSE THAT BIBLE WAS CHANGED BY VATICAN WHEN IN REALITY ALL THE ORIGINAL SCROLLS AND DOCUMENTS OF BIBLE ARE WITH VATICAN AND PROTESTANTS CHURCH DO NOT HAVE THEM TO MAKE THIS CLAIM AND OTHER THING IS THAT IF BIBLE IS CHANGED WHY PROTESTANTS ARE FOLLOWING BIBLE IN FIRST PLACE. IF CATHOLICS AND VATICAN ARE WRONG THEN WHOLE CHRISTIANITY IS WRONG BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FOUNDERS OF CHRISTIANITY AND HELPED IN SPREADING OF CHRISTIANITY.
CONTD.
see also the PAGAN ORIGINS OF CHRISTMAS.
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html
hello everyone vedas is very complex to understand before studying vedas we should no about reality, by knowing absolute reality u will come to a conclusion that everything is electrical signals,physical world is just electrical signals,our brain converts this electrical signal to one form of virtual reality,everthing is energy,when everything is energy then time is just an illusion & nothing exists , not even matter,neither u,nor me,nor this website then who am i?, y i have struck in this virtual reality,what is my purpose,who is managing all this, r we the creators of this universe,if we r creator then who is the creator of those electrical signals,y should i live,there is no difference between a dead body and living person,both r comprised of same matter then y i am able to have conscious living,who are we, what is my role in this conscious play,is our life sacred or we have just stuck ruthlessly in this world of conscious dream,y shud we create this form reality,is there any worth of living in this world,is there any difference between dream and reality,one who keeps on thinking about these questions ,present day materialistic science may never give answers,then vedas the eternal spiritual science is the solution for each questions, creator can never be described nor it is worth to be worshipped we shud realise our own true self at the higher state of consciousness,this is the only form of reality where we can get bonded with emotions,love,peace,mother’s love,parenting and have a sacred life where our gurus are our source of inspiration for our journey of eternity,world is beautiful when we imagine it as beautiful,the sustainer of universe “om” could be realised in this form of reality,do not hate anyone,all r perfect.
plz tell about vedic age or period , and when it was collected by vyasa
plz tell about vadic age or period
Do you have a spam issue on this site; I also am a blogger, and I was curious about your situation; we have created some nice methods and we are looking to swap techniques with others, be sure to shoot me an email if interested.
Chapter-6 of Satyarth Prakash is “Raaj Dharm”. In this chapter, Swami Dayanand enumerates
powers of citizens, officers, Ministers, judges and their duties. In the very first page of chapter-6, Swami
Dayanand establishes the foundation of Raaj-Dharm. Swami Dayanand gives two words – “Prajaaaadheen Raajaa”. And in these two words, he summarizes 10000 proposals on good politics. And
then he elaborates : “Raajaa must be Prajaa-aadheen, or else he will rob the citizens and destroy
the nation”. And he has taken shlokas from Atharvaved. And a cursory comparison of India’s Police
Commissioner, Ministers, judges etc with US Police Commissioner, Ministers, judges etc shows how
correct the sages who wrote Atharvaved and Swami Dayanand are. The citizens in US have procedures
to expel their District Police Chief, CM etc i.e. they are all Prajaa-aadheen, and so Police Chief,
judges, CM etc in US don’t rob citizens but protect citizens Whereas citizens in India cant expel or do
any damage to Police Chief, CM etc and thus they are not Prajaa-aadheen. And so we see that most
Ministers, judges in India are busy robbing us commons. How apt is the analogy of Maharshi Dayanand – “just as carnivorous animal eats other animals, a Raajaa who is not Prajaa-aadheen would
rob his citizens”. Thus , we should have laws like RIGHT TO RECALL in India also like in USA. for more details plz read these links http://rahulmehta.com/001.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/ , http://www.righttorecall.info/301.pdf
@manjunaath,dharm itna sasta ho gaya hai iska ek example hai,ye sadhu???. ”Train me sucide karne gaya aur bible ke vachan yaad aaye” ye sab murkh logonke,viklang manodasha ke lakshan hai.hazaaro log sucide ki firak me rahte hai,is me se koi isai,ya muslims banega hi.kyo ki jo aadmi sucide ki soch tak aa gaya usko aise hi kamjor religion dikhai pade to aacharya nahi.muhammad bhi sucide ki manodasha me tha to use allah jibrail forceful hoke teen bar jabardasti se bola.chirstian bhi usi manodasha me hai,koi taranhaar yeshu hume chamtkar karke sab dukh se dur karega.ye sab popleela hai.aadmi swayam aapne sukh aur dukh ke liye karan hai.sur eshwar sadharan karan hai.manushya karm karne ke liye swatantra hai,par fal ke liye eshwar par depend hai.aadmi ke karm karte waqt eshwar koi dhyan nahi deta par jaise uska fal ka samay aata hi to dhyan deta hai.aadmi khud apna hi mitra aur aapna hi shatru hai geeta) ye sucide karnewale log vikrut,durbal,heen manodasha ke shikar hai,aur isai,islam ye religion shikari hai.jo sirf bhagodapan,palayanvad,jivan se mukh modna sikhate hai.ye sadhu nahi balki chirstanity ka shadyantra hai.ved me yeshu ka varanan hai,aur vohi prajapati hai,aisa kahana dimagi halat kamjor hone ka lakshan hai.kaha ved aur kaha 15-20 page ki yeshu ki biography.jisme ved ka zikr tak nahi,marte waqt bola shabd koun si bhasha ka hai,ye tak pata nahi chala aajtak.to ye prajapati kaha se hoga?hahaha
VED KA RAHASYA – ved anant hai,ved ke mantra ka sakshat jis rishi ko hua us hi drasta kahte hai.gyan ki saptbhumika me janewale keval virle logonko ki ved ke mantra ka sakshat hota hai.ved nitya nutan,sanatan aur amar hai.ved ke bare me aaj aadmi kitna hi soche magar ved ka rahasya nahi jaan sakta.keval eshwar hi janta hai ved ka rahasya.pahle devta purush,rishi in ke madhyam se eshwar ved ke rahasyonko gyan dete the.aaj ke jamane me kahi bhi devta purush,rishi dikhai nahi dete to ved ke rahasyonka gyan kaise milega.ESHWAR BHI HAI AUR VED BHI HAI PAR DEVTA PURUSH AUR RISHI NAHI HAI.ex.agar mere paas mobile hai simcard hai par tower nahi hai,to phone nahi lagega.iska arth mobile nahi hai,simcard nahi hai aisa koi kahega to galti hogi.aaj aadmi to itna neeche ja chuka hai ki pashu se battar halat uski ho gayi hai.aadmi kisko kahe aur pashu kisko tay karna mushkil ho gaya.aadmi ka standard aadmi ka hi maans khane tak aur har sanbhav ho sake kaisa bhi kukarm karne tak pahunch gaya hai.aise me dharm,eshwar,ved inki baat karna inka apman karne jaisa siddha ho raha hai,iska arth ye nahi ki sabhi log is manodasha me hai,kuch aache log bhi hai,par unki sankya bahut kam hai.aaj dharm to ek fashion ho gaya.isai,muslims ved ko majak bana rahe hai,ved ke mantro ka manchaha arth nikal ke logonko gumrah kar rahe hai.ved me muhammad,ved me yeshu aisa kah ke ved ki ninda kar rahe hai.sabhi aryasamaj ko iska muhtod jawab dena chahiye.taki inko ved ka naam lene se pahle sou baar sochna pade.
Hi , Landmark retail store has Rigveda and sama veda with translated by different hindi PHD authors , its is translated from sayan or sayani language version of Vedas and is in hindi language ….wanted to check whether this would be authoritative rendering of orginal vedas and can be picked up for reading and understanding ??, also there is comment above that Vedas reading should be followed up with reading of 6 darshanas, upanishads, brahmasutras , where can I get a Hindi version of these books ? please guide tx
store.agniveer.com
Suv,
People like you are the problem. You have not even read the Vedas and make these claims. I would have believed you if I didn’t read even a bad translation of the Vedas. After reading the Vedas, I know you are a total and utter liar. The problem in India is people depend to much on hearsay and not on facts. That is the problem. And like you, people do not do RESEARCH and actually go to the source. And because I am a man of science and choose to go to sources, I have decided to actually go look up a copy of the Vedas translated into English by a Vedic follower and it made sense.
Next time before you post, try not to do reverse engineering. Where you take a person who is only Hindu by name, but has never read the Vedas. If you reverse engineer, of course you will get a lot of wonky Hindus and wonky definition of Hinduism. Instead, GO TO THE SOURCE. If you know Hindi, Agniveer has posted some great material for you to read including a translated copy of the Vedas.
You should start with what is the Vedic God. And you will see, Vedic Hindus believe in ONE GOD, not mythology. And actually are against Idol worship in all it forms. Also against the concept of son-of-god, prophets, godmen, incarnations, and all that non-sense. Vedic people believe anyone can connect directly to God. They just need to meditation and use Yoga (real Yoga, not just the stretching [and real Yoga is talked about in the Vedas]) and they can personally connect with God. Vedic people ask to reproduce, not depend on other people.
And in regards to corruption and all that stuff you mentioned. This is happening because people are not following the the principles of the Vedas. If they were, they would have left those myths, idolatry, sonofgod/prophet/godman/incranation worship.
Don’t fall for these games that these Christian bigots play. Who says there is anything wrong with multiple deities? Only those who believe in Abrahamic monotheism. So what if there are polythesitic religions. Big deal. Arabs before Islam, before Muhammed slaughtered them and forced them into his version of Judaism aka Islam, believed in polytheism and were 180 degrees more tolerant of other religions than they are now. Mecca was filled with multiple Gods and Goddesses. What is now Saudi Arabia was multi-ethnic (Jews, Arabs and other Middle Eastern ethnicities) and multi-religious (Jews, Christians, Arab polytheists and others) place unlike today home only to Saudi Arabs and Islam.
Some of the greatest European philosophies and art work were done by European polytheists prior to Middle Eastern derivative Jewish faith of Christianity. Egypt during its thousands of years of high civilization was polytheistic. It never rose as great since.
sir, who were the four rishis? they heard the four vedas individually from god during samadhi? and why does brahma come after the 4 rishis? cud it be that the four elements(earth, water, fire ,air) taught him?just like science ? i want to know the chain of succession, please. wasnt he the first? the creator of universe? father of prophets like Abraham? was he human, superhuman ancestor? where is he? brahmaloka? and i understand the chemical evolution is supported by vedas, does it also support evolution of species? has anyone reached in the state of samadhi nowdays? wat if samadhi is a mental problem? wat if mohamed n christ n all others were also in the state of samadhi when they talked with god?