- Babur and Babri
- Who was Rama – Myth or Historical Hero
We present an insightful article by eminent scholar of Vedas and History – Shri Rajveer Arya (aryarajveer[at]gmail[dot]com) written three years ago on the issue of Shri Rama being a myth or a historical legend. It’s evident from the facts that Shri Rama was not only an Indian legend but a global phenomenon. There can be nothing more shameful than living in India and yet denigrating one of its greatest role models. Kindly read and circulate widely on the eve of the Ayodhya judgement:
Nowadays, the issue of Ramsetu is highly talked about by many people. The government filed an affidavit before the Supreme Court that clearly denies the historical existence of Shri Rama on this earth. However, the strong opposing political parties and other Hindu activists forced the government to withdraw the affidavit. Some Hindu organizations like Vishwa Hindu Parishad, claim that posing questions relating to the existence of Rama cannot be simply answered by scientific or historical data.
The existence of Rama is basically a question of faith for millions of people. Therefore, no government or any other party can deny the existence of Rama. Some of these so-called “great advocates” of Hinduism did not show guts to take on the Government/Karunanidhi, and proved that Rama is a historical fact and not a myth.
Nevertheless, they were supported from unexpected quarters like the Hurriyat Conference from Kashmir. Hurriyat also claimed that scientific or historical evidence is not the yardstick to judge various issues related to religion. Hence, whether Rama existed or not cannot be decided on basis of scientific or historical findings. This is basically associated with religious sentiments of millions of people around the world, and therefore the interference of any government or political party is undesired.
As of now, many scientists, based on astronomical data, have propounded that Rama existed around 5044 BC. In such a perplexing situation it becomes very difficult for common masses to arrive at any conclusive view regarding the existence of Rama. Hence, we have to first analyze various facts regarding Rama, and his epic, Ramayana, before arriving at any final verdict.
Maharshi Valmiki, in order to guide the future generations, decided to write a historical epic that can help everyone follow a path of morality and righteousness. He ended up in a dilemma regarding this issue. Later on, he consulted Narada Muni, who in return suggested him to write about Rama, the son of Dasharatha, who was born in the clan of Raghu.
Similarly, Mahakavi Kalidas wrote Raghuvansham. This book throws light on the lineage of Raghu, and also states various kings who ruled after Rama. So, now the point of the argument is that if Rama was a mythological character, then how did Valmiki provide the history of Rama’s forefathers?
In Raghuvansham, how did Kalidasa provide details of Rama’s forefathers, and his various Santatis (successors) who ruled after him? In present times various books dealing with stories of Rama are prevalent in India and around the world. We will throw light on this issue in the latter part of this article.
WHEN WAS RAMA BORN: (based on Valmiki`s Ramayana)
One of the most anticipated topics in this modern era is: when was Rama born?
Before dwelling on this point, we have to understand that our great Maharshis have systematically divided the period of Shrishti into Manvantaras, each Manvantara being further divided into Chaturyugas, each Chaturyuga consists of Krita (Satyuga), Treta, Dwapara, and Kaliyuga. The present Manvantara is Vaivasvata Manvantara. So far, twenty-seven Chaturyugas have already been passed. Right now, it is the 28th Chaturyuga, and we are still in the first charan (period) of this Chaturyuga.
It is a well-known fact that Rama was born during the latter part of Treta Yuga. Hence, if we assume that Rama was born in the present Chaturyuga, then it means that he was born at least 1,000,000 years ago. The period of his birth will probably be more than this.
However, Vayu Purana provides us the correct chronological period of Ramayana. If we take the Vayu Purana’s period into consideration, then the period of Rama becomes at least 18,000,000 years old. Hence, we can easily conclude that the period of Rama in the time scale is at least 1,000,000 to 8,000,000 years (this issue will be resolved in another topic called “Blunders of Indian History”).
This particular view is also supported by the fact that when Hanuman travelled to Shri Lanka in the search of Sita, over there he saw elephants having four teeth. Hence, this now becomes an issue for archaeologists/biologists to ascertain when such elephants existed on earth (The calculations of Chaturyugas will be dealt with in another topic called “Age of Present Shrishti”).
The difficulties encountered in establishing chronological correctness of historical events for the period before Christ will be dealt with in the other article called “Blunders of History.” Another interesting fact that has been mentioned in Valmiki’s Ramayana is that the maternal home of Bharat and Shatrughan was in a country where transportation took place in the form of vehicles being propelled by dogs or deer. When the two brothers returned to Ayodhya from their maternal home, they crossed many places covered by snow, and were also dressed up in clothes made of wool. Now, the location in which this episode took place is yet to be ascertained.
According to our logic, this episode took place in Russia, and phonetically Russia sounds like misnomer of a Rishi, but this has been taken care of in our article called “Blunder of Indian/World History”. From the facts mentioned above, it clearly gives us an insight into the period of Rama’s birth. So, those who claim that Rama is only a mythological character have been proven wrong since we have provided them with so much evidence in this article. We will also establish that before the advent of Christianity and Islam, Rama was revered throughout the world as an international cult figure.
LEGENDS OF RAMAYANA IN VARIOUS PARTS OF GLOBE
1) RAMAYANA IN RUSSIA AND MONGOLIA:
The Deccan Herald, on 15th December 1972, on its front page gave the news in which it stated that a story relating to Ramayana was published in Elista, capital city of Kalmyk, in Russia. The news further stated that various legends of Ramayana were popular among people of Kalmyk. Many versions of Ramayana are already stored in the libraries of Kalmyk. The news clearly stated that legends of Ramayana were extremely popular since time immemorial. Domodin Suren, a Russian writer, has mentioned various legends that were popular among Mongolian and Kalmyk people. Prof C F Glostunky`s manuscript called “Academy of Sciences”, is located at Siberian Branch of Erstwhile, U.S.S.R. This book deals with various legends popular along the Coast of Volga River, and its manuscript is in the Kalmyk language. Last, but not the least, in Leningrad, a great number of books dealing with stories of Ramayana are still available and preserved even today in Russian and Mongolian languages.
2) RAMAYANA IN CHINA:-
In China, a large collection of Jatak stories related to various events of Ramayana, which date back to 251 A.D, were compiled by Kang Seng Hua. Another book from 742 AD, which relates the story of plight of Dasharatha after Rama, was ordered to go for Vanavasa is still present in China. Similarly, in 1600 AD, His-Yii-Chii wrote a novel called Kapi (monkey) which elaborated on the stories of Ramayana, predominantly that of Hanuman.
3) RAMAYANA IN SHRI LANKA:-
Naresh Kumar Dhatusena also known as Kumardasa, who ruled Shri Lanka in 617 AD, wrote a book called, “Janakiharan”. This is the oldest Sanskrit literature available in Shri Lanka. In Modern Times, C. Don Bostean and John D`Silva have written stories based on Ramayana. Till now, majority of the population adore and highly respect the duo of Rama and Sita.
4) RAMAYANA IN CAMBODIA (KAMPUCHIA):
Today, there are many rock inscriptions belonging to 700 AD, which are located in Khmer region of Cambodia. These rock inscriptions are based on the events of Ramayana. Many temples were constructed during the reign of Khmer dynasty, and currently, their walls depict many scenes and events of Ramayana. The temples of Ankor are very famous for the stories of Ramayana and Mahabharata. These temples belong to the earliest parts of the time period dating back from 400 AD to 700 AD. One astonishing fact in these engraved pictures is that Hanuman and the rest of the other Vanaras are not shown with their tails as it is against the popular belief of the masses. (Whether Hanuman was a monkey or not, this issue will be examined later on)
5) RAMAYANA IN INDONESIA:
According to De Casperis, there was a temple named “Chandi Loro Jongrong”, which had some scenes of Ramayana engraved on its walls. This temple was from the 9th century AD. In Indonesia, another version of a story from Ramayana named Kakavin is very popular. This story is a bit different from that of Prambanan. Besides this, there were other various versions of Ramayana related stories, which were present in those early centuries after Christ, and also proves itself that Ramayana was very popular among Indonesian people before advent of Islam. It is also an astonishing fact that the first international convention on Ramayana was organized in Indonesia, a few years back.
6) RAMAYANA IN LAOS:
When local people pronounce Laos in their language, it phonetically sounds like the name of one of the sons of Rama. Besides, the temple of Vat- She-Fum and Vat-Pa-Kev also depict many scenes of Ramayana on their walls. The temples of Vat-Pra-Kev and Vat-Sisket carry books that contain the epic of Ramayana. Lafont, a French traveler translated the story of, “Pa laka-Pa lama” in his book called, “P`ommachak”, in French. This book also deals with the story of Ramayana, which is still popular among the masses of Laos.
7) RAMAYANA IN THAILAND:-
The stories of Ramayana are still very popular among the masses. In the early centuries after Christ, many kings who ruled this country had Rama as the prefix or suffix in their name. Just like in India how we organize the play of Ramayana, till today, many dramatic versions of Ramayana are organised in Thailand as well. Similarly, many dramatic versions of Ramayana are still being organized in various South East Asian countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Cambodia.
8) RAMAYANA IN MALAYSIA:-
In Malaysia, plays are still organized today based on the stories of ‘HIKAYAT SERI RAMA’, written in the 14th century AD. Dalang society organize nearly 200-300 plays relating to Ramayana. Before commencement of the play people conduct various prayers and adulation revering RAMA and SITA.
9) RAMAYANA IN BURMA:-
King Kayanjhitha who reigned during 1084 –1112 AD; regarded himself as descendant of clan of Rama. Various books relating to the stories of Ramayana as earlier as 15 century AD are still found in Burma. Books like ‘Kavyadarsha’ , ‘Subhasit Ratanidhi’ are based on the stories of Ramayana. Zhang-Zhungpa, commentary of Ramayana was written by Taranath, which is not available in modern times. In Burma also various form of plays are conducted based on the stories of Ramayana.
10) RAMAYANA IN NEPAL:-
Oldest version of Ramayana, belonging ot 1075 AD is still found in Nepal.
11) RAMAYANA IN PHILIPPINES:-
Effect of stories of Ramayana can easily felt in the customs, traditions and legends of majority of masses. Prof Juon R Francisco found that in Marineo Muslims, legend based on Ramayana is popular, in which Rama has been depicted as Incarnation of God. Similarly among Magindanao or Sulu folk Muslims also various legends based on the stories of Ramayana are popular.
12) RAMAYANA IN IRAN:
In Hyderabad city, capital of Andhra Pradesh, there is museum name Salar Jung. There one portrait which is depicting a burly monkey having a very big stone in its hand. This portrait reminds one of Hanuman holding Dronagiri. Similarly Marco Polo in his book (translated by Sir Henry Yule in English) wrote at page no 302, vol II about a peculiar belief among Muslims, spread from Afghanistan to Morocco and Algeria. These Muslims believed that members of imperial house of Trebizond were endowed with short tails while medieval continentals had like stories about Englishmen as- Mathew Paris relates…. ; .
We are of the belief that if one seriously start investigating various legends prevalent, before advent of Islam and Christianity, in Arabic countries and European countries than existence of Ramayana and Mahabharata can be proved. Due to barbaric and dogmatic acts of these peoples wide range of literature and buildings of historical importance has been wiped out.
13) RAMAYANA IN EUROPE:
In Italy, when excavation were carried out in the remains of Etruscan civilization, then various houses were found having peculiar type of paintings on their wall. These paintings, upon closer investigation, seem to be based on the stories of the Ramayana. Some of the paintings shows peculiar persons having tails along with two men bearing bows and arrow on their shoulders, while a lady is standing besides them. These paintings are of 7 century BC. It should be remembered that once Etruscan civilization was spread over 75 pct of Italy.
Sir Henry Yule in his translation of works of Marco Polo has referred to the belief prevalent among Medieval Europeans that there Ancestors were having small tails. The same fact has been referred by Maharshi Dayananda in his magnum opus ‘Satyarth Prakash’. There Swamiji state that people of Europe were called as Vanaras (monkeys), due to their appearance in our epic like Mahabharata, Valmiki Ramayana etc. If we a analyse this statement in present context, then how are we going to define various statements like Kangaroos (Australian team) meet Men in Blue (Indian team) at Calcutta.
Similar sort of epithets were used during World war to describe armies of different countries or else we see that we have helicopters named cheetah etc. As these words(epithets) are just a way to describe different set of people, arms etc, similarly words like Rakshas, Vanaras, etc, were used in our legends. These facts clearly indicates that legends of Ramayana are not work of fiction and were very popular around the world .
14) RAMAYANA IN AFRICA(CONTINENT):
People of Ethiopia call themselves as descendants of Cushites. This word Cush is basically phonetic misnomer of Kush, the son of Rama. This fact is verily established by Shatapatha Brahamana, commentary on Vedas. These Brahmanas while explaining various mantras of Vedas uses many historical events to elucidate the topic.
Astonishingly in Shatapatho Brahamana we find reference regarding the rule of King Bharata (predecessor of Kauravas and Pandavas) in Rhodesia .
Besides many inconsistent legends inspired by epic of Ramayana are prevalent in African Communities and they basically refers to various activities of vanaras.
Egypt basically derives its name from Ajpati which is one of the name of forefather of Rama. If we analyse various legends prevalent in Egypt, there we will find references of Dasharatha (father of Rama). These facts can be very well established from various historical references in the Brahmanas (for the proof of it see our article Blunders of Indian/World history).
15) RAMAYANA IN NORTH AMERICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN CONTINENTS:
Before Columbus discovered North American continent European people were not knowing about it. However A DE QNATREFAGES in his book, THE HUMAN SPECIES, categorically says that Chinese people were aware about the American continent and the use to have trade relations with them America was referred as Fad-Sang. Similarly in Japanese people it was known as Fad-See. Similarly, if we refer to various historical reference in Mahabharata, Valmiki Ramayana etc we will find that American continent has been referred as Patal Desh (Patal means below foot). If we geographically see then we will find that American continent is just below the Indian Subcontinent. We will throw greater light on this issue in our topic, BLUNDERS OF INDIAN HISTORY/WORLD HISTORY.
But for your reference we are providing you some prevalent legends.
a) Beautiful girl in Mexican tribal area till today are called as Ulopy. If we see in Mahabharata we find reference of Arjuna marrying girl named Ulopy who was daughter of King of Patal Desh.
b) W H Prescott in his book , ‘ History of conquest of Mexico’, provides various reference which prove that earlier civilization of American subcontinent have major similarities with that of Indian(Aryan) civilization.
However here we are providing you one reference which clearly state that Ramayana is not mythological epic but it bears historical testimony. According to writer of the book there is popular legend in Aztec community which state that a beautiful person named Quevtsal Katal came there from east and taught them various aspects of advanced civilization as a result his period was treated as golden era. He then went back to his original homeland because of persecution by some divine creature. This legends surprisingly does not throw light on the reasons why he returned.
Another interesting fact that has been stated by Prescott is that this legend is available in documented form. Now, none except Indian tradition can claim that they bear root to this legend. The same story has been narrated in Valmiki Ramayana, in Uttar-kand where it is mentioned that Salkantak Rakshas who dwelled in Lanka were persecuted by Vishnu. Due to this persecution they left Lanka and went to Patal Desh. The leader of this group was Sumali. According to Ramayana they lived in Patal Desh for long time. When they found condition congenial they returned to their homeland.
It is for readers to decide when such conclusive proof are there to establish that epic of Ramayana is not mythological legend but it is historical evidence which bears testimony to various legends prevalent around the world. Till today play named Ramasitotav is played in various communities of Mexico. To our amazement Rama has been mentioned in Bible, new testament, Matthew 2:18, where it is mentioned “his voice was heard in RAMA”. Rama is proper noun there, now it is for biblical society to define who was Rama and why he has been mentioned in Bible.
Even the name of Dasharatha and Ayodhya are there in Bible. We will be referring to these facts in Blunders of Indian/world History.
Now we would pose some tickling questions to the sickular historians:
1) Why month of fasting among Muslims is called Ramadhan?
2) Why place in Gaza Strip is called Ramallaha?
3) Why place in London is named as Ramsgate?
4) Why capital of Italy is known as Rome (misnomer of Rama)?
We can provide various examples where word Rama has been used as suffix or prefix with the names of various historical places/persons or misnomer of Rama has been used as name for historical places/persons. None of the historical evidence provides conclusive answer to these facts unless we take Indian historical evidences into account.
It is widely accepted that the King Alexander invaded India. It really sounds ironical that we are accepting this theory without any historical evidence, on the other hand we go on to deny existence of Rama despite various historical evidences are there to prove that he was not mythical but a historical Mahanayaka.
These historians in order to refute Rama’s existence are ridiculously harping the same old tone of Theory of Evolution which does not have any scientific proof. (Why and how theory of evolution gained importance will be dealt in our article – How the universe is created. The only thing of significance regarding theory of evolution, we want to state here is that it was a tool which was invented to challenge the draconian supremacy of church. The Church claimed that this world was created by God out of nothing and the age of this Universe is not more than 10000 years. With the help of evolutionary theory, the scientific world challenged the supremacy of the Church and overcame the clergy.
This is for readers to decide by themselves how they are going to treat Rama. We think that we have provided lot of food for thought. Those who are illogically biased may still refute the existence of Rama while those who are logical and believe that mythological character can never gain such world wide respect/reverence will start looking upon Rama from wider historical evidences.
Here we want to clarify following points:
1) Rama was a Mahanayaka, a legendary person who lived a pristine life and is an example to be emulated till today.
2) It’s immaterial whether Ramasetu, on which lot of controversy is being created, was built by Rama as far as proving authenticity of Rama is concerned. Regardless of whether they prove Ramasetu to be man-made or natural creation, existence of Rama cannot be denied.
3) Valmiki Ramayana is not fiction but an epic based on historical evidence.
For those who are questioning the existence of Rama, let them first justify whether their forefathers ever existed, using the same yardstick that they are using to question the existence of Rama. At least there are more evidences of Rama being a historical hero than the existence of forefathers of these historians.
@Vicjags
A Christian moron like Vicjags will equate his dictator Abrahmic God with Vedic Ishwar without understanding the basic concept of GOD in Vedas.
First understand it here http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/ then we will discuss why he didn’t enlightened Mohammed Ghori.
Your own mudslinging posing as a Muslim, Christian, Hindu and Atheist was not rational analysis of Ashish’s quote.
Dear All, Shri Rm Chanderji was a great personality. He was declared “Imam-e-Hind” by Dr. Alama Sheikh Iqbal dacades ago…
Sheikh Gulzaar
Writer/Bot/Journalist
Srinagar,JK
Agniveer good work.. You have really put light on Ram’s birth and his life and proofs of Lord Ram was worshiped around the world. Agniveer, I am doing a research on World Scripts. Please listen it carefully, In which I can prove that Sanskrit’s Script is the mother of all Scripts. I have also proved how Greek God ZEUS (Lord of Heaven) comes from INDRA (Lord of Heaven. In short, I can give clue to Greek’s Helen Religion (Base of Western Philosophy) has its roots from India’s Vedic Religion. Also, to some extend I can even question Alexander Invasion of India to be completely wrong, but this was just an Indian King who was named Alexander in Greek. I can bridge a gap of 6000 years between India and Greece civilization. Further moving I can prove that Omega on Bibble comes from word Om – Eka, similar concept of Ekas Omkar in Sikhism.
This is a result of my deep meditation and Arya Samajic myths which are true. After all history should researched based on Myths. Further in my next research I have proved that Indo-Greek Kingdoms were nothing but Indian Kingdoms. Also, India’s rule over Greece. All this just from paper work.
For showing all this to World frankly I don’t have neither guts nor I have enough resources. I decided to make a book of it in Kindle Store. But, my family is not supporting it. They say one should not comment on other country’s script. Please help me as what should I do. Contact me at [email protected]. Waiting for your reply. Thanks in advance.
You should contact Sri Rajveer Arya who leads Agniveer Peace Foundation and is an expert historian himself. He has also made similar researches. You can contact him through http://agniveer.org
But how to reach Sri Rajveer Aryaji from that link there isn’t any dropdown of contact us in that link..
u shud apply the same thinking/approach to the question whether jesus existed or not .
shailender singh ji
visit this link and read volume 1,2,3 of bharat varsh ka itihas by acharya ramdev ji. in third volume acharya ramdev ji had commented on greek history and its relation to history of our country. do give me feedback.
dr vivek arya
http://www.vedickranti.in/books.php?cat_id=119
@Vicjags: Pardon me, but i would like to know what is that you are here for
a) proving your reasoning prowess?
b) proving that Salvation through Christ is the only way
http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-25304
Christian concept of God and salvation through Christ. I will show why it’s reasonable to believe that Christ can be the only way to salvation.
c) finding faults/lacuna in the Vedic belief system
d) debating the concept of GOD
e) debating the existence of GOD
f) evaluation of the validity and soundness of various theist systems
g) confusion about what is right and/or soul searching ?
h) killing time
Looks like Mac’s butt buddy, and ulterior persona is back. Seems like he preaching some of the most sickest shit again. Wow, this guy needs to take a cold bath, LOL
“If you are OK with accepting Christ based on my experiences then even I’m more than willing to talk about the miracles that I’ave experienced and the impossible faith healings that my family members have seen by the work of the Holy Spirit..
So to say again..This is my purpose here
“TO REQUEST/FORCE AGNIVEER TO EDIT/ DISCLAIM THE REFERENCES THAT HE HAD MADE ON THE SPIRITUAL SIDE OF CHRISTIANITY AND BIBLE IN SOME OF HIS ARTICLES””
He does not want Agniveer to say anything about Christianity. But he wants to proselytize and use these Agniveer threads to convert Hindus to Christianity.
@VicJags : Dear friend All your thought out-pour between the IN BOLD reason is no where in logical coherence with the same IN BOLD reason.
lets See:
By explaining how vast majority of the Christians seem to be genuinely accepting Christ only after experiencing his love..
How did you explain that its Christ’s his love and not their own GUIDED devotion, Its not something new in the Indian subcontinent, for your information, if you are not fully endowed with western gaze yet, the Bhakti yog ORIGINATED in india, since times before the example of prahalad.
so there is nothing concrete and unique about Christs love here
if your Hindu villagers are falling for 2 kg rice why should only the missionaries take the blame.. This may happen due to lack of knowledge of true Hinduism, but still that’s your responsibility to go and teach them
you are right here that it is our responsibility. and Agniveer articles are an effort towards the same.At the same time proselytizing by showing the Vedic and Hindu dharma in negative light and using obscure ways like
a) Jesus Christ temples that has arti , and he shown seated on peacocks and standing like Krishna
b) christianization of bharat natyam, christian mudras in indic dances,
c) claims that Sanskrit was developed by Christians and Tamils were actually Christians and rishi thiruvalluvar was a christian saint teaching gospel
d) vedic literature is nothing but prehistoric and unscientific text of uncivilized Aryans
and loads of other things like that ( you need to learn a lot if you don’t know any of this) do not show missionaries in the very good light.well this being out of scope, will not take it further.
.. Christian worldview….
you must Understand Maryada Purushottam Ram is not a bed Rock of Vedic knowledge, he was just an outcome… so even if today Shri Ram’s memory is wiped out of every vedic Hindu it would not bring any change in the outlook of a vedic person.
and as you say At the same time even if I’m not able to convincingly prove my claim that doesn’t mean Hinduism or Agniveer wins by default.
so by refuting or finding fallacy in an individuals argument of how he/she proves that an individual was known or revered worldwide does not provide any support for Christianity as such or your arguments either.
…assessing the validity of Hinduism..
It should be clear to you that this site is for Vedic ideology and not for contemporary belief system that is called Hinduism, which is a deranged offshoot of vedic knowledge systems.
you don’t have to wait for agniveer to respond to the issues that you have in theological and philosophical arenas , you can post them here and you will have your answers, but till now of all the time you have spend here , we did not come across any such burning question form you.
.. speaking I simply don’t have to debate or defend Christianity here…
You are very welcome to question the vedic knowledge systems, but one should be true to ones self and not do such under a hidden pretext or hidden agendas or being in a self defensive mode.
That has been the culture of our Lands “shasthrath” and “purva paksha”, if you you can logically convince me that your way of belief is Superior to mine the i must accept it , till i find a better one, this is way intelligent and growth(spiritual and material) oriented people ought to approach debates.
If we can’t come into any conclusion even about which is more reasonable, then the debate on one true religion will continue as it had done all through history..
exactly there have always been people who are on the path of spiritual evolution from lower realms to the highest pinnacle.
Though I do enjoy debating, I’m totally against any kind of religious debates.. I think it will lead to more friction than friendship..
This is TOTALLY WRONG and is a western way of thought.. if i don’t agree with YOUR THOUGHTS(don’t read it as YOU) it does not mean that i hate you or want you out of my way ..
“shasthrath” and “purva paksha” have been the way of life and spiritual evolution of the people of this land, though now its very less prevalent as is visible in your influenced western way of thought,
If you are OK with accepting Christ based on my experiences then even I’m more than willing to talk about the miracles that I’ave experienced and the impossible faith healing that my family members have seen by the work of the Holy Spirit..
Ironically This remind me of a 75 yr old Catholic Dutch close friend of mine who lives now in India, who is a staunch believer in “Sai baba” 🙂 and to quote him verbatim “how can i deny the spiritual experience that I personally had with HIM”
The point here being is that people have always through out history been having “EXPERIENCES” to which they get stuck and never rise above that individual experience, entire faiths have been build of a particular individuals personal experiences. ITS only the vedic way of life which says that these experiences are dormant in every human being. and they unfold as and when one proceeds further and further on the spiritual path, they have nothing to do with a external person that can influence these experiences, its only the individuals knowledge of that can open the doors to the yet unknown.Every individuals has to find his own way IN. no one else can do that for you.
BTW if i were you(and was really convinced that Christ is the way to go , after having a detailed comparative study of vedic KS) i would spend more time in framing my argument in support of the hypothesis for christianity spiritual side , so that we can see what exactly Christianity has to offer, that the vedic belief and knowledge systems do not have a logical,superior and refined alternative to.
Om Shanti.
Nice job Ankur,
You explained it very well. The point is people like vicjags want to spread rumors or regurgitating rumors some clever and not so clever missionary or Western imperialist came up with. Lot of the theories that vicjags stated came right out of some of the most racist people on this earth. It’s pretty sad that this guy now considers himself to come form a culture that is sub-western. At least now, many of us can fight back, but there is still much work to be done. These myths will still persist until we dispel them. And more important, we need to present what we really are. Thanks to Agniveer, the work has already started.
And vicjags still has not gotten that basic idea about history centrism. I wrote about it a coupe of times. We believe in embodied know, so there is no need for historical characters. We don’t depend on them. Unlike his religion, which does. Makes it unDharmic or some would says Adharma.
Omkar,
Krishna
Ll visitors are very humbly requested to please send your address on tis no to receive your free bookaboo on spirituality in Hindi. 9992600804 thnx
If you could appreciate the myths and fairy tales of the Bible being propagated by the “Christian scientists” as worthy of consideration, I am sure you could find pearls of wisdom in his research too only if you do not maintain double standards in this regard.
The world was into idolatry, local demon worship, ancestor worship, fallen angel worship and satan worship, UNTIL Jesus came. He never traveled a 100 miles in His life time, never had a teacher, never went to school, but the Rabbis (teachers of law) called Him a Rabbi (teacher of the law). In 3 years, He turned the world upside down. He is the only Son of God, the God in flesh, the exact image of God, the Father Almighty mankind knows. For nobody has seen Father God Almighty except the Son who comes from the Father . Your linguisticity is very poor, Om and Omega has no relationship. His Name is I AM or Yah or in full YWHW means “I AM WHO I AM”. It is His “ego emmi”, you are not supposed to ask Me, I created you, you didnt created Me. He is a Nameless God and Yahweh is His Name, besides Him there is no other Living God. Arya Ram-Anna and Warad-Sin (Bharat-varsh equivalent in Hindi of Persian language) his brother are well recorded in the world history of Persia. Even Cyrus the great and Darius the great claimed Arya Ram-Anna as their ancestor who ruled for 60 years as it is written in Bharata Jhataka. As I said, you are too poor in relating it linguistically. All the linguists of the world agree with what I have pointed above. You are still into your vedic brahmanic brain-trained idolatry. Indian history starts from Chandragupta I, until then there were small tribes spread over north west India. There was no city or urbanization then and all your 4 fake vedas are mythical poetries of Persian history (Indus valley civilization), hardly near truth. Vedic corruption is prevalent in idolatry and you twist history as it suffice your whims and blindfaith. It is still going on.
jesus was a born a jew who didnt do ancestal worship,demon worship etc and jesus aws not god he never said he was the god to be worshippedand he was also a false jewish messiah according to jews and india and china have some oldest histories in the world the only other comparable to india are egypt and mesmotompia all other civilisations started from or after india you can use your christian missionary ways to attack beliefs just to get converts but if you were honest you would know the abrahamic beliefs are nothing compared to eastern beliefs
QUOTE
but if you were honest you would know the abrahamic beliefs are nothing compared to eastern beliefs
UNQUOTE
Israel is the naval of this world (the Middle-east), where the entrance to the Garden of Eden was there and where all the patriarchs and matriarchs of the Faith are laid in the cave of Machpelah, Hebron, Israel except Moses and Rachel. You can Google and see for yourself, it is a historical place. History of mankind started from here. As far as Indian history is concerned, we know that it started from Chandragupta I, which in layman’s term is a recent history. In Chandragupta I’s period urbanization started in India little by little over a 1000 years. Before that nothing is on record, but a fake vedic blind-faith which do not belong to Indus valley civilization neither are there artifacts found which would trace any vedic history or its myths. Now this is world history we all agree with.
For the rest of the answers of your comment, just check on my other comments. They are answered.
hey u fool peoples…..SHREE RAM is only a god not a national hero…..he is a avtar of god…that menas he is nt a ordinary people like us…he is a ultimate & only one……..KRISHNA AND RAMA,VISHNU AND SHIV,BRAMHA ALL ARE SAME..NTHING DIFFERENCE IN THEM…THEY ARE ONLY ONE….
To: All Hindus ,
I get this is an Hindus’ website.
I have some serious questions that I often pose to religious persons. But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.
How do you know if your God is the true God?
How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
What is unique in your religious book that force you to believe in it?
Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism as there are so many religions?
Can anyone address to all my questions?
To: Islam ,
I have some serious questions that I often pose to religious persons. But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.
How do you know if your God is the true God?
How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
What is unique in Quran that force you to believe in it?
Why do you choose to believe in Islam as there are so many religions?
Can you address to all my questions?
Can you not spam all the threads. Pick one for these questions instead of repeating them on every thread.
@Vicjags :Alas !!
Now if you are saying that the love of Christ is that altered your choice, the onus lies on you to disprove my statement that there is in fact difference between the indigenous Indic bhakti bhav marg and love of jesus or XYZ, I am claiming they are same except for the object(mental IDOL or physical IDOL). I think your confusion arises from your deep ignorance of the Indic values and various Spiritual Knowledge systems otherwise you would not have made such an ignorant and dumb statement.
The whole lot of mumbo jumbo that you have written about science being based empiricism (the way you have analyzed/criticized it) is appallingly amusing and pathetically flawed.
if sufficient number of people have a sensory “experience” of the same phenomenon (after following steps laid out as a premise of the phenomenon to happen)under normal state of human existence .. Then there you go you have a scientifically validated phenomenon. So the plethora of words used, as usual, gone out of the window. A waste of reading time.
This is exactly the mistake which Ankur here and many other Hindus so often make.. Though you people put it in more decent language, your line of argument in questioning the uniqueness of experiences of another man is no way different from my schoolmate who believed all that meditation does is help you imagine porn..
and you continue..
The thing that i find most unfortunate is that the understanding that you have of Indic knowledge systems comes from events like these, i find it really sad actually pitiful, to be precise
Had you ever found time from these childish ways of interpreting spirituality (i guess you get it from your Sundays) and spent some sincere and quality time in researching yog sutras and vast number of other text in indic knowledge system cannon like Kashmir Shaivism , shiv sutras and so on , you would have come to know that the subjective experiences that you very vehemently claim are personal and individual are in fact not so.. there are documented methods of achieving a particular spiritual experience , but the difference between the empiricism of science and the INDIC “spiritual sciences” is that in the former you can have results that can be related to physical world but the latter depends on the corroboration of the subjects undergone the methodology (kriya, mental, physical and psychological as documented).
ya you are right that everyone has the right to follow what they want but as we are humans and indic KS values having made us compassionate enough to let people like you know that there are SUPERIOR,LOGICAL and EFFICIENT ways to spirituality , but yes of course they entail dedicated hard work at the inner levels ,not as easy as going to a gathering and distributing pamphlets and confusing people with something that is not even objective. Well at the end of it as is has said there are people who still have to rise from the deepest, darkest pits full of confusion and uncertainty to the pinnacle of spirituality aka Vedas and Indic KS.
love of jesus!, i know it would be very difficult for your to let go of something that has given you a transitory spiritual experience, in the wake your ignorance of the “spiritual sciences” and the understanding of the MIND/MANA.
May you find peace!
@vicjags : The only thing that forced me to respond to you is that you mentioned me by name in your post, i thought you would stop that since we decided to do that. Guess you are hard at understanding a simple request. Besides if i have/had digressed from the topic and your objective of being here there is no need to mention me by name and what i discussed.
I don’t find it interesting to read long and boring interpretation of things that can be concisely conveyed. I only responded to what i found was worth responding to.
You contradict yourself so many times that it’s confusing to pick only one for eg.
First you go on saying that your personal subjective spiritual experiences with Christ as divine and no two can be proved to be same then you counter my standpoint of objective exp. by saying
People often enter into alternate states of consciousness during Hypnosis, and neo-freudian psychodynamic studies that they even report of vivid experiences with the super-natural.. and so on with alcohol etc
you forget that the same applied to your own experience.
Now that you know really KNOW what i was talking about when i talked about objective experiences, as you have drawn the conclusion in a few hours can you tell me what exactly i was talking about and how is different or same from the So called documented “CHRIST” experiences or your own exp., we can start from there.Dont Beat around the bush.
BTW what did you subjective experiences with christ make you feel, relaxed, happy , secure or made you forget your day to day problems ?
so now please when did i say that the objective experiences mean that Ishwar is trying to contact the subject having the experience? guess it is your habit to paint the world in your said “Christian worldview” with is so miserably narrow, where divine is some 1 sitting in heaven and will have to save your sorry state of existence from going to hell, and the purpose of human life is to reach a place called heaven which is foolishly and absurdly eternal.
so now if i am going to continue first we need to have purva paksha in place for you w.r.t Hinduism
Here is what is needed, I need your understanding and essence/relevance(in your words) of the below concepts of Hinduism, to start with
1) what is Atma and what is the difference between Atam and the Christian concept of Soul
2) what is Jiva
3) what is Sharira
4) what is parkruti
5) what is Ishwar
4) what is Prana
5) what is Moksha
6) what is bhakti
7) what is samadhi
8) Ashtang yoga with its individual parameters
Only if i am satisfied with you understanding i will decide to respond to you and your posts with precise question w.r.t the concepts of Vedic KS and nothing Else.
@Ankur
1) what is Atma and what is the difference between Atam and the Christian concept of Soul
Atma is the Spirit or Ruah and Soul is its covering means body. Nowadays, the word Soul is used interchangeably with Spirit.
2) what is Jiva
Jiva is the life force which is given by the breath. You can say electrical impulse which runs various systems in our body. No oxygen to the brain, it stops and you are clinically dead. God breathed two things into the nostrils of the man (Adam) He created from the dust. God breathed both life and spirit into the nostrils of Adam. So when one leaves the second will also leave. The impulse of breath is controlled by the Spirit/Atma. Breath is just air/wind rather oxygen.
3) what is Sharira
Soul or Body, which was made from dust according to Christianity. Dust to dust and ashes to ashes.
4) what is parkruti
Nature, all physical nature of creation. Christianity believes, it was all made from water.
5) what is Ishwar
It simply means Lord.
4) what is Prana
Prana is nothing but breath, which sustains the body. The philosophy of sustaining the universe is simply stupid. Pranayam is the exercise of breathing.
5) what is Moksha
Is the philosophy of going thru billions of life forms and after zillions of years, you may suceed in liberating your Atam from the life cycle. There are zillions of life forms trapped into this life cycle. Christianity believes in eternal Salvation from sin in this God given life. As you know the dead know nothing. All hope is good until you are alive, then they all go to the same place of rest and rest until the great day of judgement.
6) what is bhakti
It is worship of god-idols or images invoking them doing vedic rituals and chanting (repeating) the same slokas or words again and again. In christianity we worship in spirit and truth to the unseen God, the Creator because God is a Spirit. We do not chant for out of the 10 commandments of God, one command clearly states.
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the Name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain.
The Living God of Abraham neither sleeps nor slumber since creation. His Name is Holy Holy Holy. The praise and worship should be spelt 3 times for it to reach God Almighty in the 3rd heaven.
7) what is samadhi
Meditating doing yoga and a condition in which to forget all 5 sense called dyana and in chinese it is called Zen condition. It is blackening your mind while you are awake, which is stupid as it sounds. ONLY Adam and Eve had that kind of minds because both of their minds, small and big were connected. They didnt had that thing which divides two human brains. They were able to talk to the angels directly in heavens until their fall and it was taken away from them, the SIXTH sense. Also, the glory which surrounded them was also taken away.
8) Ashtang yoga with its individual parameters
I am not interest to do yoga although I agree it is a good exercise for the body, mind and internal organs.
The word Hindu was coined by invading Moghuls who wanted to separate from the Indic people of Indus valley civilization. Hinduism is the way of life NOT a vedic religion which the RSS guys coined some 60 years ago. All born in Hindustan is a Hindu. They were know by different peoples as Indu, Indi, Hudo, Hudas, Hindi, Hindu and lately Brits coined the word Indian. This is nothing but phonetic equivalents in different languages and dialects. When you say that Hinduism is a vedic religion, you are simply HIJACKING other Indians’ citizenship like us, who are from different belief systems.
@mac: before we decide upon the debate conditions and take things to task, if i find its worth it,
I would like to know, as you explained sharira=body=soul, do animals have this soul?
Yes, animals do have Spirit (Atma). But, I do not know whether their spirits go up or down when they pass away. Again, soul is the covering of the Atma. Well, when Adam and Eve were there with the animals in the Garden of Eden, they all spoke a common language. Animals were made dumb because they didnt stopped Adam and Eve from sinning, I mean the original sin because of which we are suffering now. Satan came in the form of a serpant and seduced Eve. So God cursed Satan and said: You will crawl on your belly and eat dust…….. Only amongst the land animals, serpants are the most cursed and they are the only animals who crawl on their belly. It is a curse. Satan is the great serpant, Shiva’s symbol. So also women are always attracted to dark snake like things. It arouses sexual desires in them, and it is evil, so was woman cursed with birthpain.
I DO NOT debate. When you say debate, it looks like fighting. I am not here to fight. I am here to share, discuss and discourse the knowledge and wisdom of our one Living God. For debates, you can debate with vicjacs. He debates good.
@Mac : Dont worry i know that you can’t debate ; you dont even know christiant belife system which is clearly visibile where christian concept of soul is not Applicable to anyone except humans i.e. Animals “DO NOT” have Souls. and soul is not body as you say , so the question of debate does not arise.
I will rather avoid going on an educations spree with you because then i will have to teach you both Christianity and vedic KS and Islam if you venture there.
Besides as SDC righly said you dont even deserve a response on account of your great knowledge, i cant stand the glitter of your knowledge.
and BTW did i ask for the etymology of “Hindu” everyone here knows it was conined by outsiders, so thanks but no thanks.
N.B. All the defintions that you have given are not wrong but a total blunder. i stop at that.
Ignorance is a bliss for you and blunt denial is a trait of blindfaith. I can quote events from the bible wherein the animals are talking to human beings. But, you are not worth it. Only God can remove the curtain of blindfaith from your eyes.
Distortion and misrepresentation is the new bliss, and you are blessed, Mac. You sound more like the Muslims to me who very often blurt out that Allah has put a seal on the hearts of infidels.
@vicjags :A hypocrite you are; i think you did not forget it was you who came here claiming that “CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION” so in essence you were having your way with the superiority complex & when responded to , you play coy by saying
Mr. Ankur, the perfect Vedic Hindu considers it to be his compassion that I’m even able to hear from him!!!! … Well to the satisfaction of Ankur, let an ignorant Christian like me take a bow and ignore him.. He can glorify and follow the vedic system that gave him the “compassion” to let people like me know that his ways are superior than mine.. Wow, how compassionate Vedic religion and Vedantins are, that they are able to humiliate my Holy spirit experiences and also being compassionate enough to show me the light of Vedas !!! and then compare the Vedic Knowledge system to the white man’s burden philosophy
You are repulsively pathetic and to be totally ignored.
let’s see who has malicious intentions and /or is confused.
1)here is your first claim
(__http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-25304)
of “Jesus salvation” to which you never paid heed since then almost a month(were noticed around 17 Oct on the forum) has passed and now you find the escapist route by shamelessly and sarcastically blaming it on my “compassion”
The topic “Christ is the only way to salvation” is something which we agreed on for debate.. After listening to your “Compassion”, I’m not even going to engage you on the debate…
2) Then came your allegation about the flawed concept of Karma which i responded here
(__http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-26199)
And you were well acknowledged the points and promised a response soon enough (which never came), then you continued in other directions.
3) it’s Ironic that you are pissed off about my debating methodology, then only thing i did was gave you a taste of your own medicine by showing how one cannot have a sensible debate to prove the validity and rationale of one’s belief system by not subscribing to one Agenda/topic to One debate with an individual (in this case me) and that i have clearly mentioned that here long ago.
(__http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-26124)
We have to know what we are debating to begin with.
I think you ASSUMED that you are debating me on a context of your choice, I ONLY responded to tit bits of your posts which i could breeze through, (guess i don’t have the luxury of time as you seem to have) as you did not put forward and agree upon the topic of debate with ME, which I had implied and asked for in the said link in point 3.
4) Then came your purpose of being here which you pronounced here
(__http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-26774)
“TO REQUEST/FORCE AGNIVEER TO EDIT/ DISCLAIM THE REFERENCES THAT HE HAD MADE ON THE SPIRITUAL SIDE OF CHRISTIANITY AND BIBLE IN SOME OF HIS ARTICLES”
I requested you to prove the validity the actual “spiritual side” of Christianity so that we may see how it is better than the Vedic system and the purpose behind was also mentioned by me
(XX) That has been the culture of our Lands “shasthrath” and “purva paksha”, if you can logically convince me that your way of belief is Superior to mine the i must accept it , till i find a better one, this is way intelligent and growth(spiritual and material) oriented people ought to approach debates.
and till now you have not put forward any substantial data or logic behind this “spiritual side” of Christianity which appealed to you so much, all that you have done is made a feeble and uneducated attempt to access the validity of Vedic Hinduism, when you don’t even understand the concepts involved in the Vedic KS , how do you find yourself capable to validate and comment on something when you do not have the understand what its comprised of?(e.g. Point 2)This attitude falls in line with “white man’s burden concept” that you attribute to me because i tried to prove that there is nothing “BETTER/SUPERIOR” in Christianity and it has nothing to offer and its rather deficient , . Rather than proving what is superior in your belief system, you went on counter arguing my statements from an Atheistic, scientific standpoint. Effectively you have not put an ioata of weight in your belief system(Christianity) which proves that its “BETTER/SUPERIOR/LOGICAL” in comparison with the Vedic KS, so in accordance with the statement marked (XX) in this post, what should you do? simple leave your current belief system and either become an atheist/scientologist (out of option as you believe in GOD), then the only option left is accept that Vedic KS is superior to you current belief system or and move your fold, else put forward points precisely why Christianity is better than Vedic belief system{but the precursor to this is you SHOULD necessarily know what are the components and concepts of the Vedic KS}, now if you are sincere seeker only then would you do that , else you would find the EASY way out as your have said , to rephrase in short “its a matter of Choice” , essentially it should be an educated and logical choice and not “JUST a mundane CHOICE”
5)I see that you also have mastered the art of selective quoting and out of context quoting to portray people in negative light.
You quote my below words to prove that i am a religious fundamentalist/bigot
(a) “your confusion arises from your deep ignorance of the Indic values and various Spiritual Knowledge systems otherwise you would not have made such an ignorant and dumb statement.”
But you very conveniently skip why i said that, let me refresh your transient memory, it was in context of your proclaimed statement
By explaining how vast majority of the Christians seem to be genuinely accepting Christ only after experiencing his love..
And i said
There is no difference between bhakti and this so called love and it was in this context i said that above statement which you have misquoted.
NOW WHO HAS A HIDDEN AGENDA and MALICIOUS INTENT?
(b)“The thing that i find most unfortunate is that the understanding that you have of Indic knowledge systems comes from events like these, i find it really sad actually pitiful, to be precise”
How does it prove that i am a religious bigot, it’s a fact, refer to point 2.
You further argue
(__http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-33588)
Now how can you prove to such an arrogant fool, that you are experiencing only the divine through yogic meditation? Unfortunately you cannot !!, You might talk about allthe nice things that happened to you through these practices but albeit all your personal testimonies, there is no possible way to objectively prove those experiences of yours.?
Then somewhere in your posts you claim
Unlike what Ankur believes, your Rishis and seers might have all followed the same methodology believing the experience they have is divine, but in truth the experience might be merely the result of brain activity in alternate state of consciousness.. Just because these experiences provide you a temporary state of bliss whereby you seem to be relieved from day to day problems, it doesn’t mean they are divine experiences and you can objectively proclaim ishwar is contacting you..
p.s. i did not even claim about Ishwar contacting anyone.
do you see how you contradict yourself ? The irony is that i have point out these things to you & you claim that you have made a laughing stock of my arguments, how brilliant and genius of you
(c)“Had you ever found time from these childish ways of interpreting spirituality (i guess you get it from your Sundays)”
I don’t see it as a comment on a religion, its rather a comment on your personal abilities and spiritual exposure, maybe the Sundays part was a prejudice but the emphasis was on your “interpreting” ability.
(d) “INDIC KS VALUES HAVING MADE US COMPASSIONATE ENOUGH TO LET PEOPLE LIKE YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE SUPERIOR,LOGICAL AND EFFICIENT WAYS TO SPIRITUALITY”
yes , this is in line with the statement marked (XX)
(e)“WELL AT THE END OF IT AS IS HAS SAID THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE TO RISE FROM THE DEEPEST, DARKEST PITS FULL OF CONFUSION AND UNCERTAINTY TO THE PINNACLE OF SPIRITUALITY AKA VEDAS AND INDIC KS”
yes, i have the right to claim that ( in line with the statement marked (XX) ) unless you put forward what better Christianity has to offer, or else don’t crib and show your resentment for me.
AGAIN, The problem here is your TOTAL IGNORANCE (half baked knowledge added with your narcissism plus the assumption that you know all) and UNEDUCATED approach to Vedic Hinduism, you simply refuse to do your homework and come back with the +es and -ve of your belief system Christianity and that of Vedic KS , so that I also get to see what you really fell for in Christianity and shunned the Vedic KS, rather chose Christianity over Vedic KS, and at the same time you claim to be at your wits end.. just because i don’t see the logic in your choice of Christianity over vedic KS ,how ironic.
SUGGESTION/METHODOLOGY FOR DEBATE: If you want to have a debate on the validity of Vedic KS vs Christianity then please say so and will start a new thread for the same. But for that you NEED to have the understanding of the concepts to re- iterate and we are bound by the statement (XX)
Here is what is needed, I need your understanding and essence/relevance (in your words) of the below concepts of Hinduism, to start with
1) what is Atma and what is the difference between Atam and the Christian concept of Soul
2) what is Jiva
3) what is Sharira
4) what is parkruti
5) what is Ishwar
4) what is Prana
5) what is Moksha
6) what is bhakti
7) what is samadhi
8) Ashtang yoga with its individual parameters
@Vicjags : Its a request to you do go through the post and not just skim over , after all its a matter of 5-10 mins, do ignore my compassion and humility, i hope you have a big kind and forgiving heart, in line with respected historical character of Jesus Christ.
Do go step by step, what i have pointed out in the said post
(*) http://agniveer.com/rama-myth-or-hero/#comment-35791
Looks like you are trying to accuse me of insulting experiences of Hindus so as to make me your partner in crime.
No i am not, i am only asking you to defend claims that you made on this form w.r.t spiritual side of christainity
so, go through my post(*) and defend your statements/Claims in the post’s context.
I’m not here to defend my character, but only my arguments.. So not responding to your allegations, but only interested in your counter arguments..
yes of course, so again, go through my post (*) and defend your statements/Claims in the post’s context.
Also put across the same complaint that I’ave given any arguments to showChristianity is logically valid..
I did not say that, for a change you are mis- representing me. I said that argue how christianity is logically superior to Vedic KS, so that you prove to yourself and educate others in the validity of the choice of your faith. Besides you did come trumpeting in this forum that christianity is the ONLY way.
so go through my post(*) and respond in the Post’s context.
Well once we are done with your response to my post (marked by *)(in its context as you educated me that debate is arguments and counter arguments , so why not we start from the beginning of your first arguements and then move to the later ones.[ moot ones.]) Till then we will not go in any other tangential direction/topics
Namaste Ankur,
Excellent point, “Here is what is needed, I need your understanding and essence/relevance (in your words) of the below concepts of Hinduism, to start with 1) what is Atma and what is the difference between Atam and the Christian concept of Soul 2) what is Jiva 3) what is Sharira 4) what is parkruti 5) what is Ishwar 4) what is Prana 5) what is Moksha 6) what is bhakti 7) what is samadhi 8) Ashtang yoga with its individual parameters”
I don’t think this guy even understand the common Dharmic ideas. As I said before he doesn’t even understand history centrism or geographic centrism. He is basing a lot of his bullshit on misunderstandings of the Vedic system.
Nobody can be saved by Karma. For it is written that “Everybody has sinned and have fallen short of God’s glory”. You can’t buy the Living God by your Karmas as you buy your deaf and dumb idols. It is written: “The wages of sin is death”. It is also written Numbers: “God is not a man that He should lie”. There will be a judgement day for all creation. For sin entered this world thru one man, Adam and death came with it. As sin gets its power from the law (Word of God), the sting of death is coming thru sin (disobedience to the Word of God). AND, God exacts punishment. Each and every judgments of His are righteous. So, it is written in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son (Yeshua Ha Mashiach), that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” God’s grace is free, she came with her brother Faith (Yeshua, the substance of this creation) as a free gift from the Father God Almighty. In the realms of spirituality, the substance of your faith is blinded by your brain-trained vedas, which has no historical or archeological ground. And you say, seeing is believing, but God says believing (in the word of God) is seeing. For no man can see God and live (Exodus 3). For no man can withstand the power of His glory and no flesh can survive His presence as He wraps Himself in a consuming fire, thunder, lightening and pestilence goes before Him. He is the Living God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Jacob, YWHW (I am who I am) is His Name.
@ Krishnarao : Pranam KrishnaRao,Brother, the point that we must understand is that our own brothers are uneducated and ignorant about own vedic heritage and that’s why they stand against it today and its nothing but sad, at the same time we as the torch bearers should never falter from the Dharma and keep strong in our foundations the Veda in principle and practice. There is no theistic faith present that can Challenge and defeat the Vedic dharma on the basis of values and the understanding of the divine.Our prerogative is to enrich our own selves and educated others in the quest for the truth so that we stand as an insurmountable mountain in the path of A-dharma and ignorance.We must make sure that these people (most probably paid by the evangelists) on account of there good western education are not able to resort to plagiarism and claim our vedic values to spread their hidden and malicious intents by misleading our people by misinterpreting and misquoting our values, this is what these evangelists have been doing all the way by creating a divide based any possible & stupid reason like language, color etc They had racial bias in their own psyche and what they had done in rest of the world they assumed and implemented the same in our Lands.they subjugated,tormented the Negros,carried out their genocide in the west (in the name of Christianity and jesus christ )and made sure to fit our culture in the same paradigm.The people who divided,ransacked their lands based on color,race etc are making all efforts possible to divide Bharat and blame it on the varna system which is originally based on merit.(though it is degenerated to the birth based system today).
We have to go back to the vedas. Agniveer has done a stupendous job in proving a portal for the same and hope soon we will have an authentic version of all the vedas in English (yajur being available), so that the light of the vedas dispels all the darkness that has engulfed this country in the name of various religions.ITS HIGH TIME WE UNITE as ONE based on the values of the Vedas as Brothers and Sisters.
Om.
you seem to be defending christianity but then other posts you seem to be athiest what are you exactly there are many christians like yourself who believe claim to be athiest but defend christianity?
Do U know what Holy Spirit is??? This was written over 4000 years ago.
Proverbs 30:4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of His hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, and the Name of His Son? Tell me if you know!
I’m sorry mac, but it is you who have come on here and insulted and brought evil and false trash here. I was sharing a genuine and pure experience I had, and you can’t handle it. I’m sorry, but I actually don’t believe that Jesus asked us to worship him. I normally don’t share that dream, but I thought I do because it was something my Dharmic people should know and hear. Jesus was not the son of god or any of that nonsense. He was just a man that was following Vedic Dharam and it was the roman empire that corrupted his message for personal power. Jesus was just like buddha and Krishna was promoting Vedic Dharam. Watch the video I put up. It talks about the lost gospels that you christians missionaries refuse to look at with a open mind and pure heart. Stop being such a blind faith moron.
I have read all those gospels, apocrypha, deutro-apocrypha, psuedo-apocrypha books, some of which you may not even have heard their names. This is the reason why these books are not included in the canon of 66 books of bible because they are unauthentic and lacks appropriate proofs. Its research DO NOT find proper internal evidence, external evidence, archeological and historical proofs before it can be canonized. Also, I have read the earlier historical books written and maintained by the ancestors of Moses, who wrote the Torah (first 5 books of the bible) wherein he refers those ancestral historical books. These books gives dates from Adam’s time.
Four Gospel writers were all jews and Jesus gave the Gospel to jews before it was spread all over the world by His 12 apostels. Gospel also came to south India thru apostel Thomas few decades after Jesus’ resurrection. Jesus accepted praise and worship. Even the demons cried out that you are the Son of God, we know you. Only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgived the sins of people and they were instantly healed. The whole reason why jews crucified Jesus is that Jesus claimed to be the Living God (I AM or Yah, the hebrew Living God) and it is a blasphemy as per the law, the gravest crime. Even a fool will not knowingly lie, if he knows that his lies would bring him death. Yeshua was identical with His message, whereas none of the other faith gods were identical with there message. His Sermon on the Mount is considered as the greatest teachings of morality ever uttered by human lips. He taught freedom, equal rights, humanity, love and peace the principles of democracy. It is written:
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when God brings His firstbegotten Son (means called forth) into the world, He says, “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”
God wants not just the humans, but even the angels to worship His begotton Son. Lord God Almighty Himself addresses His Son Yeshua as “O God”.
Psalm 4:6 Psalm of David. “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of Your kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son He (God) says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has set You above Your companions by anointing You with the oil of joy.”
Yeshua was exalted when He entered the Holiest of the Holy in the most high heavens with His own blood as a sin offering before God Almighty. So, it is written:
Psalm 110:1 Of David. A psalm. The LORD (God Almighty) says to my Lord (Yeshua): “Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”
Matthew 22:44 “‘The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.”‘
Mark 14:62 “I AM,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His Being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and He sat at the right hand of God.
Vicjags, Mac’s butt buddy,
Why do you run away form the history centrisic question? Why are you such a wimp. Your jesus is just a historical character. God does not depend on history. Your religion is history centric and geographic centric.
Address the history and geographic that’s been asked over and over again. Don’t be a pussy and run away. I asked you this a hundred times. But you want to run away. Stop being a bitch.
Again, attacking your baseless assumptions. When you go on propagating your faith, then questions will definitely be raised as to why people should switch over to your side, what so special about the faith/idea being propagated, how is it better than the one already being practiced, etc. People generally do not ask those imaginary questions of yours.
Jesus was someone who was reinforcing Vedic views: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt7C1lLR_c8
The key is Jesus was a follower of Vedic values. And it was the romans who changed his image for selfish power. Some of my best friends are people who left Christianity and are now followers of Dharam. Everyday people in the West are being liberated from the chains of christianity and are freeing themselves. Many told me they felt like they were always carrying a bag of bricks when they followed Christianity and went crazy fearing the devil. It wasn’t until they let go of that non-sense and opened their heart to reason and love, they were liberated. It was what lead them to the path of Dharam which equaled to love. And as in the spirit of Diwali from ignorance to knowledge.
THey also stated they left christainity because of history centrism. Now they are not bonded by some chains of a historical person and more connected to a universal God.
My Experience:
And I personally had a dream of Jesus. And it felt like I was walking through the streets of the middle east some 2000 years ago. People were walking toward him knowing that he was a good person. I also went over to the place where he was. He was roasting some food over a fire. And when I Iooked at him, he said, “You have come a long way” in a very nice way. It was like I was journeying through life, and he knew it and I was doing well. I did not get a feeling that he wanted met to pray to him or worship him at all. Instead I felt like he knew I had my own journey and he was supporting me. I personally experienced Jesus, and I know from my personal experience that he did not what me to worship or pray to him. He was very okay with me being a follower of a Dharmic faith.
When I saw him, he looked and actually reminded me of a native American sitting next to a fire with some friends and sharing wisdom with them. And enjoying a nice roasted.
You may be hallucinating, if you did not feel power of His presence in your dream. Jesus is the radiance of God’s glory and His presence marks the power of 12 legions of His personal angels. A legion is 6,000 angels. Raban Gamaliel, the Elder, author of Mishnah and Talmud; a Member of Sanhedrine (jewish court of law) as also he was the neighbour of Jesus Christ in Jerusalem says that when Yeshua came to play at my house with my son, the atmosphere of the house would change and the whole house would become fragrant. Jesus was walking on the thickly crowded street surrounding Him and people were already touching Jesus, when a woman suffering from constant menstrual bleeding thought that if she could only touch the hem of Jesus’ robe, she would be healed. So she did touched the hem of the robe and she was instantly healed. So Jesus said: Who touched Me for power has gone out of Me. Jesus spent his childhood playing with the kids around there. When He was young enough, He went to help his guardian father Joseph who was a carpenter some 4 miles from where He lived. Jesus never went to school, never had a teacher and never travelled over a 100 miles in His life time. Then, how come He learnt your vedas? In Jesus’ 3 years of public life, He preached in Jerusalem and surrounding towns only.
That guy in the video is funny-fool and one big bluffmaster. He is correlating things which has no meaning without historical ground. At the age of 10, Jesus was teaching to the Rabbis and Members of Sanhedrine, who were the appointed judges of court of law. He was teaching Torah, the law and creation wisdom to them. And this overwise moron in the video says that at 13, Jesus went to India and then to Greece. Everybody knows that Jesus’ guardian father Joseph was a carpenter. Jesus was living in a middle class family. So then how come Jesus got so much money at the age of 13 to travel all alone tens of cities in India and then tens of cities in Greece??? Krishnarao, can you please answer me this simple common sense question? You also know that our vedas, puranas, mahabharata, gita govinda, etc DO NOT have any historical proof, archeology, internal and external evidence (means the events should match with other historical books of its given time). And, here this guys in the video are trying to authenticate the falsehood of stupid minds.
The guy in the video either knows and defies the truth or is foolishly ignorant about the records of Jesus’ childhood as mentioned in Talmud and other classical commentaries on Torah and the Prophets wherein Jesus of Nazareth. Also, the world famous jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who lived in Jerusalem during Jesus’ time has mentioned Jesus in his historical work. He was world famous historian because he was doing investigative historical work. The guy must have not yet read the books “Infancy of Jesus Christ Part 1 and 2” either. How come the neighbour of Jesus Christ viz. Judge Raban Gamaliel, the Elder mentions Jesus’ infant years in his writings?
Secondly, that world famous picture of Jesus wearing the crown of thorns was drawn by Michael Angelo from the description of Jesus’s humble and godly nature given in the scriptures. He didnt lived during Jesus’ time. Other pictures in this video are also drawn way very many centuries after by various painters. The whole video is a cultist ideology of defying Christ. The books this video is mentioning are psuedo-apocryphal books including the Gospel of Thomas and hence, are not reliable.
Have you heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls. They were written during Jesus’ time by His zoharic followers viz. Essens? Essens were pure jews who followed Jesus.
Jesus said in Matthew 12:30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
Bring something which has substance in it.
LOL!!! That was a good one!
Faith is the substance of this creation and His Name is Yeshua Ha Mashiach, God in flesh, who came and repaid for our sins in flesh as the sting of death which comes from the sin, which came from the original sin, the disobedience of Adam to the Word of God. Sin gets its power from the law for its written “the wages of sin is death”. By Faith God created all creation and by Faith all things work together EXACTLY as His spoke, the Word, the substance of Faith. He was begotten (means called forth) from the radiance of God’s glory. He is the only most obedient begotten Son of God, the Commander in Chief of God’s Army who wars with Satan (the fallen one) and He is the One who stands with one leg in heavens and another between hell and hades (where the dead are sleeping). And, God has set apart ONE day to judge all creation, from Powers (rebellious angels) to the kings of this world and all people.
YAHWEH=ALLAH=ASURA=Enemy of Hindus
You failed to grasp my point: Very few practicing Hindus would consider Christianity as illogical for the simple reason that religious faiths themselves are illogical to begin with. Religious faith cannot withstand a logical scrutiny. I have explained to you the root causes of the antagonism, and it definitely does arise because of some Hindus finding Christianity illogical as you are suggesting.
There is a distinct difference between religious philosophy and religious beliefs that generally stem from subjective experiences. I am not questioning the validity of the concept of God/creator. I am simply emphasizing on the point that most faith based beliefs based on personal experiences and understandings of religious teachings have inherent logical flaws. Often, the word faith is used as a synonym for religion, but beliefs can be non-religious too. And hence, I was being specific in only singling out the beliefs of religious origin.
@SDC, You too are pissing me off. Let me make it clear, I am a Hindu a citizen of Hindustan and Bharat-varsh is my motherland. Hindu is not a religion, please dont try to HIJACK my citizenship, either way I belong to this land. Whatever corruption we have in our country, I was never a part of it.
But, they denied me entrance in military because of Rs.10,000/-, my passions were lost, I was so much wanting to join the military, but I failed for corruption. I am still a soldier, a sharp shooter and a martial artist. But, I wanted to give it to my country, which I failed because of corruption.
God works mysteriously. I am just a son of Bharat varsh.
@SDC, let me teach you the difference between an ISM and INITY, both are suffixs, right. An ISM is a school of thought, whereas INITY is the WAY. So then all your ISMS are nothing but philosophy of IDIOT BRAHMINS and INITY is the WAY, the ONLY WAY. It was called the WAY in the beginning and then now we call it christianity. AND THE WAY IS STILL THE ONLY WAY, because when Jesus said: IT IS FINISHED. there was an earthquate and the sun disappeared and darkness was there and thunder and lightening and it tore the main temple curtain into two from top to bottom and the SHEKINAH (Glory of God) left the temple of Yerushalayim. His Name is Yeshua Ha Mashaiach.
We worship the only Living God, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Holy Holy Holy to His Name forever and forever, Amen.
More bedtime stories. Go to sleep, man.
Undoubtedly, empiricism forms the basis of scientific method, but it is not the only way of arriving at truth. Science does employ empirical methods but it goes beyond empiricism. Go through this link for more:
http://davies-linguistics.byu.edu/elang273/notes/empirical.htm
The reason why Hindus like me hate Christian missionaries is because of their nefarious ways of preaching Christianity. I have pointed out the menace of Christian fundamentalism that is so rampant in the Northeast region. I also brought out the fact the evangelists also actively support the Maoists and enlist their support in eliminating/threatening Hindu missionaries who are actively involved in bringing back the converted tribals into the Hindu fold. They prop up activists like Kancha to incite trouble within the Hindu fold. I also remember of an India TV expose where they brought to light the fact that Christian missionaries were luring poor people with money into accepting Christianity and denouncing Hinduism publicly.
As Christians have every right to propagate their faith, we have every right to question their motives, modus operandi, and the supposed superiority of their faith.
The first question that I would like to ask is: Who was the killer? You said nothing about the killer. Some kind of murder mystery, I guess. The invisible gardener story has more in common with the crop circles mystery. Again, Flew needed to answer as to who tidied up the garden.
So you are suggesting that all those who convert, do so because they have had some kind of spiritual experience. Not necessarily so. A lot of blacks in America converted to Islam because of the ill treatment that was meted out to them, and also under the impression that Islam would guarantee them equality. Many Hindus converted to Islam to save their skins during the Islamic rule.
So, the experience of the divine in only limited to the prophets, is it? I do not subscribe to such exclusive divinity. Each soul is potentially divine. He just needs to realize it.
Agniveer is entitled to his opinions on experiencing the divine.
But the problem is borders are often transgressed and mischievous ways are resorted to, and that is when things become unsavory.
Solely relying on subjective experiences could be faulty. Even lunatics have experiences of their own, but we know for a certainty that those are basically his mind playing games with him. Hallucinations and delusions are also subjective experiences.
@SDC; This would really go above your head, a sure bouncer. But, anyhow I will give you some hints on it and the rest comes from the “Calling of God”. What is divinity? How can a person be divine, if the Holy Spirit has not been given to him/her? And, how come one receive Holy Spirit, the Power from God and He is a person, a spiritual entity, if it were not sent by God? There are 9 gifts of Holy Spirit. Only the Apostles had all the nine gifts and the rest of the prophets and those who are called by God only have one or two, at the most three gifts of Holy Spirit. Jesus has warned us NOT TO mock the Holy Spirit because it executes judgement on the spot.
When you say Soul, it in fact is the covering of the Spirit or Ruah or Atma, that is the body. The word Soul is nowadays interchangeably used for Spirit/Ruah. Now, the two sides of Ruah/Spirit, left and right, one rises up to unite with the divine in our sleep. Ruah is bound within supernal Neshamah, and the Neshamah is bound within Ein Sof.
King Solomon the wisest King who ever lived on the face of the earth says in;
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He (God) has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.
The Substance of Faith is in believing the Word of God.
Still, men says: Seeing is believing. (Blindfaith)
But God says: Believing is seeing. (Faith)
There are 3 levels of Holiness. First Holy is here, if it is given to you thru Holy Spirit. The second Holy, you will have to climb thru the Spirit of Truth, which unites you with the spiritual realm of the second heaven. The third Holy is the Most High God, you cant reach it in flesh because it is in the Most High heavens.
I am not sure, if this much you can digest. For you it is too heavy spiritual food. Rest of the wisdom of understanding of the spiritual world only comes by God’s calling.
Man, I cannot stop laughing at your spiritual “bouncers.” Mac, the spammer par excellence, I sometimes wonder if you even deserve a response. I personally rebutted your copy-paste researches on many occasions, and I am in no mood to go over that drill again. Probably, Vic may have some words of advice for you. You are best ignored. But still, let me just put a point across: Much of what you say is fictional (If not, then produce evidence to prove me wrong).
Didnt I started my comment with a phrase, “its going to be a bouncer”. I thought so and I knew, you may not get it. Well, I am a good baller, all 6 I use to put in one single hole, yorkers, well that was different time. I suggest, if you dont know how to swim, please dont enter the waters of the ocean. For even a little wave will flip you over and you will get drowned, LOL.
People like you, SDC, who tries their best to defy the truth. But, even if you bury the truth, it still lives in the grave. And it will one day rise from the grave, climb the roof tops and SHOUT.
TRUTH NEVER CHANGES, IT CHANGES THINGS AROUND IT. It remains alive because it is the only truth and it is with me not U.
Well, I did give you a scare with my bouncer which you effectively skirted/ducked: “Much of what you say is fictional (If not, then produce evidence to prove me wrong).” Well, Mackie boy, I know that you are a good martial artist, a good shooter, a good bowler, a good spammer (ahem). So, please do not keep extolling your virtues. I am sorry to say, mate, this time round your “truth” just kept silent and did not produce any verifiable data for a reasonable analysis.
You dont have to do anything, just Ctrl F and type in Mac on this blog and read all my posts. You will find all your answers both faith and blindfaith and also know who Ram, Bharat and Sita were because I am not going to fill the blog with repeat comments.
I did go over your posts and I pointed the distortions in the “facts” that you brought forth.
The world is made up of Carbon,hydrogen,oxygen,phosphorus etc.The carbon did not say to hydrogen to combine each other to form a carbohydrate.Similarly,nucleic acid,amino acids did not say to join each other.As these substances cannot join each other on their own so there must be some invisible entity who is combining these with his power.Electric current cannot be seen.Electric current is just the transfer of electron or any charged particles through a cross-sectional area in unit time i.e. i=q/t.Electric current can’t be seen.Can one see magnetic field?Can one see electric filed?Electric field lines are just imaginary lines to explain the direction of the electric filed of the charged particle.Electric spark is different from electric current.
Man can see only those radiations which fall in the visible range of the wavelength.But there are other lights too which other animals can see but humans can’t.SO there can be some invisible things too.An atom can’t be seen.So we should deny the existence of the atoms by rejecting Rutherford’s experiments.Is it right?
For example,you left your purse in the bus while reaching to a station and you went leaving the purse inside the bus.Other man caught your purse and thought there does not exist any owner of the purse like you because at that time he did not see anyone like you to say this purse is mine.
For example,you went to Himalayas and saw them.After coming back your eyes were not getting the image of Himalayas so does it mean Himalayas does not exist?
Similarly,if God can’t be seen it does not mean he does not exist.
The matter cannot combine own their own to from other products as they do not know how to combine.DOes a stone or a pebble knows physics and chemistry?If not then there must be some entity who knows physics and combined them in some law to form products.
A pot is build by the potter by soil.But without the potter and the soil the pot can’t be made.As without potter a pot can’t be made then it means that this world was not made without God.Break my logic if you can?
jesus being only 2000 years old probably was not even a real person my personal view is that jesus is a copy of beliefs before him made into one but if by chance he was jesus didnt even say he was god but i believe he probably was somebody who was a jew who was making a new movement against roman empire and he was crucified for it and his followers and people after them like paul,constaine made him god
Saul, whose name Jesus changed to Paul after He appeared to Saul on his way to Damascus was a Pharisee, a Rabbi and Member of Sanhedrine (jewish court of law) who was appointed to execute the followers of Jesus Christ after Jesus’ acsension to heaven. Paul was going from town to town and was executing the early followers of Jesus Christ by stoning them to death or cutting them to pieces. When Jesus appeared to him in a brilliant light, he was blinded for 3 days and was sent to someone’s home with an ordered to be healed. Jesus asked Paul; “Saul, why do you persecute Me?” So from there Paul started to learn from the other apostles about Jesus’ teaching and then he started to preach. Emperor Nero was an anti-Christ. He killed millions of the early christians.
Jesus predicted His death. He also said that He will destroy this temple and raise it in 3 days. He was talking about His body. Why should He predict His own death, which He knew what is going to come? He should have avoided just by running away. Do you think He was sucidal, who had hundreds of thousands of followers? Romans didn’t wanted kill Jesus, it were the jews who crucified Jesus because Jesus claimed His godship so many times, the Hebrew God Yah or I AM. Yah is such a holy word for jews that they even today do not utter it instead they use 72 titles for it. It is a blasphemy to claim godship under jewish laws. You must see the movie “Passion of Christ” rest you will understand. It is in the original language in aramaic and hebrew with English subtitles. But, it is too graphic to watch.
His movement was against nobody in particular but against the realms of spiritual world and Satan. God made a mockery of the powers, authorities, principalites and Satan in the realms of spiritual world by nailing the SIN on the cross, WHO knew no sin i.e. Jesus Christ, Son of God.
Jesus said: “It is finished!”. Sin gets its power from the law. And the law is fulfilled once and for all and put aside. Now no more sacrifices and killings under the law. As per the law, the wages of sin is death. Jesus has paid for our sins once and for all.
jesus was nothing true he probably didnt he even exist but me personally i respect jesus but reject christianity and christians please go read books by acharya s and documentarys by robert beckford even your bibical scholors say it is probably false im skeptical individual me studing many religions i see the eastern/dharmic beliefs are good and modern agnostism/athiesm are the only possibilities you living in india should accept one of these
I have two uncles, who are retired from the theology colleges. Both have Ph.ds in theology, one has Ph.d in Old Testament. I myself a student of the classical Talmud, studied all thru in an orthodox jewish school, 10 times better than any convent school. Are you telling me to listen to your punk acharayas who have not even travelled enough in India itself? Are you not another vedic pond-frog? Have you ever thought outside the box? Man, you need to attend Baba Ramdev’s seminars.
In which subject did Jesus have a Ph.D. in?
What’s so wrong in attending Baba Ramdev’s seminars?
There is nothing wrong in attending Baba Ramdev’s seminars. I myself took classes for about one year in Arya Samaj yoga and gymnastics in my area and I loved it. That was when I was a kid. Yoga and gymnastics are good exercise for body and mind. As far as Jesus having a Ph.D, I will say does the Physical Creator needs a teacher??? Yeshua is the Wisdom of God who was with God in the beginning.
Wisdom’s call:
Proverbs 8:12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”
In the Book of Enoch, Enoch says: When Adon (means the Lord) came, He came with great light.
That is to say when God called forth Adon from the radiance of His glory (Shekinah), He came with a great light. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory (Hebrews 1).
Oh Paratma!!!
Please give proper backbone to us, as we are not able to with stand in this kaliyuga… we are loosing our cultures, society and many things.
Did you read my answer to SDC on divinity and spirituality? Well, I wrote in the first place that he ain’t gonna get it, spirituality, divinity, holiness. But its funny, you need to read my answer to his question and his reply and further on. I guess, you may enjoy it. I don’t hate him, but his response is so funny, enjoy it with me.
This article is stunning!
What a piece of reserch Agniveer team has done, hats off!
This article must start further research on such findings. I read some where that some people in deep Russia have been worshipping Krishna for many generations.
It is an accepted fact today that Sanskrit is the mother of most of the European languages. That means, Sanskrit was a common thread. It may take some more time, but may be we can find vedic religion was a common thread worldwide.
Sanskrit is the descendent language of Prakrit, the Jain language. Also, Sanskrit was brought by Medes people, it is not an Elamite language. So also Medes (mostly north Indians, Pakis, Afghanis and Iranis, southern Iraqis) practised this vedic religions and veda is from them, basically. Elamites who lived in Indus valley have not such artifacts found, which resembles vedic culture………………..PERIOD. So don’t jump the Agniveer gun, he is another vedic-pond-frog. Sanskrit is a lower level Indo-Iranian language group. Think outside the box and also visit http://www.indiaculture.net and find the truth of your brahmanic LIES.
One need not jump the Agniveer gun but go along with the distortions that Judeo-Christians (like Mac) bring forth? So, the last word in history and archaeology has been said and whatever Mac and his ilk say is final, right?
It is the research of renowned world linguists including Indian linguists. They all agree on what I said because it is from them. All languages were born out of two mother languages Hebrew and Aramaiac. You can Google for the language groups for yourself instead of blabbering with closed eyes. You do not have ability to think outside the box and your vedic pond-frog mentality has blinded you.
@MAC
The word sanskrita, meaning “refined” or “purified,” is the antonym of prakrita, meaning “natural,” or “vulgar.” It is made up of the primordial sounds, and is developed systematically to include the natural progressions of sounds as created in the human mouth.
Prakrit is a dialect or an impure form of Sanskrit language it was used widely in literature as the language of the people of the lower class.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Sanskrit.htm
I like the term you used for sanskrita “primordial sounds”, thats very amusing. Anyway, I mul quote from wikipedia.
Middle Indo-Aryan languages (Middle Indic languages, sometimes as Prakrit) is a group in the Indo-Aryan branch of the Indo-Iranian languages. Middle Indo-Aryan languages are the descendants of the Old Indo-Aryan languages such as Vedic, Epic Sanskrit and Classical Sanskrit, and the predecessors of the Modern Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindustani (Hindi-Urdu), Oriya, Bengali, and Punjabi.
The Middle Indo-Aryan stage in the evolution of Indo-Aryan languages is thought to have spanned more than a millennium between 600 BC – 1000 AD, and is often divided into three major subdivisions.
The early stage is represented by the inscriptions of Asoka (c. 250 BC) and by Pāli (used in Buddhist scriptures) and Ardhamāgadhī (used in Jain scriptures).
The middle stage is represented by the various literary Prakrits, especially Sauraseni, Maharashtri and Magadhi. The term Prakrit is also often applied to Middle Indo-Aryan languages (prakrita literally means “natural” as opposed to sanskrita, which literally means “constructed” or “refined”). Modern scholars such as Michael C. Shapiro follow this classification by including all Middle Indo-Aryan languages under the rubric of “Prakrits”, while others emphasise the independent development of these languages, often separated from Sanskrit by social and geographic differences.
The late stage is represented by the Apabhraṃśa languages of the sixth century AD and later that preceded early Modern Indo-Aryan languages.
Indo-Aryan languages falls in the category of Indo-Iranian language family group. It is not my assumption, it is the research and study of world linguists not just Europeans but Indian linguists as well.
I believe there is a reason for everything happening in this creation and under the sun. We have to just find it out.
@SDC, @Ankur and @Krishnarao,
Have you visited http://www.indiaculture.net? If not, you need to. There is a wealth of info on that and you can share yours. Also, try to get the Elamite link. I guess, its pretty interesting, you may like it.
Face the truth and the truth will set you free.
Mac
There goes Mac retard ass spreading lies again. Seriously first these European invaders called it the aryan invasion. When there wasn’t enough evidence for it, they called it the aryan migration. And now when there isn’t even evidence for that they are changing there story again. Even the European scholars are realizing that the aryan invasion and aryan migration or whatever new thing they come up with is WRONG. And to the Vedic society many people have contributed. The key for the Vedic society is anyone can connect directly with God. It isn’t limited to some retard prophet/s or son of god or other garbage. The Vedic concept is not selfish at all. Any group that says their boy or historical figure is the only person who can experience that and we need to worship that retard or follow that retard is total non-sense. The Vedic way says anyone can achieve what the greatest Rishis in the Vedic society has done. We just need to use the techniques of Yoga and meditation as they have and we can connect directly with God. We can accomplish what Krishna has done or anyone else. We do not promote the stunting of growth like your dumbass religion.
Does it make you happy or make you feel a winner by spewing bad words at me? If it does, God bless you.
You are going in circular arguments. I have already given answers in detail in my above comments for which you are still spewing bad words at me without considering the well researched and founded truth.
As I have already said Ram, Bharatvarsh and Sita were our ancestors. However, Krishna is unfounded or not recorded in the history available to us. So Krishna is more mythical character. Another thing, our vedas and the rest of the scriptures records a mythical history of the 10 famous Persian wars and besides that we do not have anything. This is also recorded in the bible and world history.
So, dig the truth and if you find it. Keep it to your heart. As I said earlier, TRUTH NEVER CHANGES, IT CHANGES THINGS AROUND IT. Face the truth and it will save you.
Have you by any chance heard of the lost of Dwarka that was found in the lake called Gomati Lake at Dakor which bears eloquent testimony to the fact that Mahabharata is not a figment of someone’s imagination or you have deliberately decided to give that a miss because somehow the “Christian historians” cannot relate it to anything in Middle Eastern history?
I have been there. There is still a temple submerged in water and the city is also there exactly as I have mentioned somewhere on this blog. If you see the old mesopotamian map and the old Elam map it extends to parts of Gujarat and North-west India. I do not deny that there may not be a King named Krishna. We also have excavation at Lothal, Gujarat and it is the same historical evidences I provided in some of my above comments. However, when there is a flood, it messes up the carbon dating technique calculation. Earth is 6000 years old and there was Noah’s flood as I have mentioned above and it messes up the calculation of carbon dating technique. Miners are still finding vertical trees buried 1000 feet underground. And, this particular Dwarka submersion case is not from Noah’s flood. It was after that as researchers are dating it to 5000 years, it can’t be. You should also know that your Mahabharat and other scriptures are talking about the same 10 famous wars of Persian/Mesopotamian kings. Instead of sticking to the vedic gun, learn to think outside the box.
Why do not you start thinking outside of Judeo-Christian box for starters, Mac? You do not deny that there may be a king named Krishna. Somehow this name does not find a mention in the Middle Eastern history, but the city he founded still exists underwater as is mentioned in the epic of Mahabharata, amazing, isn’t it? BTW, carbon dating techniques are not dependable and hence are to be discarded outright, isn’t it? Also, I think Vicjags may have a few words of wisdom in store for you regarding the Earth’s age.
See, one thing you have not noted in me on this blog as yet. I support and accept truth, half-truth, a smidge of a truth or myths, folklores, legends, legends of folklores, historical literature of the people of this world, which confirms the main stream faith of Judeo-Christianity. I never denied that Arya Ram-Anna, Sita, Warad-sin (Bharatvarsha), Tussurat (means owner of 10 charriots, Dasratha) were our ancestors; and Krishna who is unfounded in history. Krishna is a psuedo-apocryphal figure of your vedic myths. However, you need to understand none of them were of Bibilical proportion. They are not so important figures in biblical history, in fact, they are not at all there in the bible. Cyrus the great and Darius the great, the Persian Emperors were of biblical proportions, who ruled almost 70% of the world of their times and they were descendents of Arya Ram-Anna and Tussurat. Ram ruled in Persia and his kingdom reached far way upto north and upto NW India. History records that he ruled for 60 years and people were happy and his wars are also recorded. Hammurabi was not a monkey. Its your filthy evil brahmins who have twisted the history and the truth. They hired scribes and told them to write the way it pleased their whims and their ego and their fake glory. This is why I say CORRUPTION is a vedic invention.
Mac, half truths are more dangerous than lies. BTW, do you accept the truth that creationism is a big hoax?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
Banawali in Hisar district of Haryana, by which the long-lost river Saraswati once flowed, is probably the Ram Janambhoomi (the birth place of Lord Ram) and not Ayodhya as is the common belief.
This theory has been propounded by veteran archaeologist M V N Krishna Rao, a pioneer in deciphering the Indus Valley civilisation script, who unravelled the famous ‘Pashupati’ seal in 1969.
In a paper titled ‘Rama and Ravana in Indus Seals’, contributed to the ‘J P Joshi felicitation volume’, Dr Rao has based his conclusion on his reading of the Banawali seals.
Dr Joshi is the former director general of the Archaeological Survey of India and Dr Rao, a former deputy superintending archaeologist with the ASI.
In his interpretation of the Ramayana, Dr Rao has identified ‘Rama Sana’ of Indus seals with ‘Ramachandra’ and thereby with king ‘Rim Sin of Larsa’ in Sumer, who ruled the vast lands of Sumer, Elam, the Indus Valley and the present-day Iran and Afghanistan from 1753 to 1693 BC.
‘Rim Sin’ assumed the title of ‘king of all lands’ by the consent of Goddess ‘Nin Makh’ at ‘Opis’, his second capital in Babylonia.
Dr Rao says the archaeological evidence found in the Indus seals showed that ‘Rim Sin’ had fought for a long time an undecided war with King ‘Hammurabi’ identified as ‘Ravana’ of the Indus seals.
The king of Babylonia was finally able to defeat ‘Hammurabi’ in the joint action with the chief of ‘Subartu’, ‘Hurrian’ and ‘Mitannian’. ‘Hammurabi’ was killed in the fight, as suggested by one of the Indus seals which has a legend reading ‘Ravani Dama’ or destroyer of Ravana.
Dr Rao says the Indus seals found on the banks of river Saraswati suggest that Banawali must be Ram Janambhoomi and not Ayodhya.
He points out that under project ‘Archaeology of the Ramanaya Sites’ headed by Prof B B Lal, excavations were conducted at Ayodhya, Bharadwaja Ashram and Sringaverpura from 1975 and 1980.
At Ayodhya, the remains of a Hindu temple belonging to ‘Gahadwal king of Kannauj of 11th century AD’ were found underlying the Babri mosque.
The antiquity of the other Ramayana sites excavated does not go earlier than 1000 BC.
This late dating of the sites had ”dismayed the experts, and the view that Ayodhya was Ram Janambhoomi was abandoned,” Dr Rao claims.
Dr Rao, who used the principle of acriphony to read the proto-Vedic language of Indus seals, says Vedic texts and Puranas almost correctly mentioned the names of different tribes and the kings of different dynasties in different regions.
Having read all the 1650 seals that were legible out of the total 2325 Indus seals, he says the names of rulers of Babylonia, Assyria, Elam, Juda and Egypt. along with their country and city names were sanskritised in the Vedic and Puranic texts.
Written at a very later date, the epics and Puranas got confused in the identification of geographical landmarks — names of rivers, mountains and cities. In such circumstances, he says, there is little wonder if they placed Ayodhya on the river Saryu near Faizabad instead of Saraswati in Haryana.
Dr Rao says possibly it is also one of the reasons for their confusion as the Aryans adopted the same names to the rivers and cities while gradually migrating towards east from Iran, Afghanistan, Indus Valley to the Jamuna-Gangetic valley. Such frequent changes of place names was a common practice among the conquering and migrating races of the ancient world.
The latest findings revealed that the Indus civilisation covered a vast region on the east-west axis from Alamgirpur to Sutkagendor and on the north-south axis from Ropar to Bhagatrav, about another 1600 km. No other ancient civilisation could boast of such a vast distribution of space as claimed by the Indus civilisation. Moreover, it had nearly 1300 km of seaboard along the west coast.
Archaeologists at the beginning of the present century, Dr Rao says, had unearthed in Iraq some very important clay tablets, stone Stela with carved inscriptions and other art objects revealing significant information about ‘Rim-Sin” and ‘Hammurabi’, who became famous for establishing an empire and for furnishing a law code.
‘Rim-Sin’, whose name was read in the Indus seals as ‘Rama Sana’, was the son of ‘Kudur Mabug (or Mabhana of Indus seal)’ and reigned in Larsa, the modern Sankera in Iraq.
‘Rim’ in Sumerian language means ‘ruler’ and ‘Raman’ is the name of ‘thunder god of the Amorites’. ‘Sin’ means ‘moon god’ in Akkadian language and ‘Sana’ means ‘god of thunder storm’ in the Indus language, Dr Rao explains.
Before his accession to the throne of Larsa in Sumer, Rim’s brother ‘Warad-Sin’ ruled for 12 years. His father ‘Kudur Mabug’ reigned in Jamutbal, a kingdom on the coast of the Persian Gulf towards east of river Tigris adjoining Elam. ”This name is identical with Jabuna or Sapuna or Jambudvipa of Indus Valley.” Rim-Sin appears to be an Aryan chief ruling over Elamites, Sumerians and Aryans of Indus civilisation, Dr Rao says.
@Mac : this is not food for thought and i think you have specific liking for the way vignesh used to author his comments.
First of all There have been people with the name “Ram” all over the world and it does in no way conclude that others are the same as Maryada purushottam Shir Ram.
Earliest date that Shri Ram could have been born is 7323 B.C, and the article that you quoted hand random assumptions based on some seals and it itself say that this “Ram sin” ruled from 1753 to 1693 BC.
for further reading
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/ramayan/rama_vartak.html
These are the researches of renowned Indian archeological experts and they also worship Ram. Ram is a very common name in Mesopotamia and amongst the descendent languages of Hebrew and Aramiac, the mother languages. Most idolatry was concentrated in Mesopotamia especially in Egypt, Babylonia and Elam or Indus valley. Tamil most nearly matches the Summerian language, but not sanskrit.
Sita was not the wife of Ram. She was the Chief Priestess in the temple at Ur, Iraq of today. Arya Ram-sin and Warad-sin (Bharatvarsha) were Elamite kings, who ruled 60 and 12 years respectively. Kudur-Mubak (Tussarat means owner of 10 charriots) was their father. Hammurabi the arch enemy of Arya Ram-sin didn’t had 10 heads, he is the Ravana of Mahabharata. It is the same mythical history written in Dasaratha Jhataka and Mahabharata. Dr.Rao findings agrees with the Persian/Mesopotamian and biblical history. Sanskrit is way down line in the Indo-Iranian language family group.
Let me elaborate on Sita. The RigVeda refers to an Asura (powerful king) named Rama but makes no mention of Kosala. In fact the name Kosala was probably Khas-la and may correspond to Mar-Khase (Bar-Kahse) of the Sumerian records. The RigVeda also refers to Sita (IV,57.6) with singular respect; `Auspicious Sita, come thou near, we venerate and worship thee’. Warad-Sin’s sister was consecrated as the high-priestess of the moon-god at Ur under the Sumerian name Enanedu. The first known chief priestess of Ur was Hedu-anna, sister of Rimush. There survives a number of hymns composed by her in fluent Sumerian which makes her the first literary figure of history. Her enormous prestige in Mesopotamia can be gauged from the fact that 1500 years later King Nabonindus recorded how he had searched for and recovered her memorial. This lamentation speaks of her exile (from Ur) and exile is an important theme of Valmiki though not of the Jataka, which suggests accretion. Did the first poetess of history inspire the first poet of India?
Ilu-Ma-Ilu, the Hanuman of the Epic, was a Marut or Amorite
As the cuneiform symbol for ‘ilu’ can also be read as ‘an’, the name Ilu-ma-ilu who was an adversary of the Hammurabi dynasty can also be read as Hanuman. Jona Oates also writes the name as Iliman which supports this. Hanuman leader of the Vanaras, is called Maruti which may link him to the Martus or Maruts of the Sumerian texts. The Martus were the Amorites of modern writers. The best known Amorite was Hammurabi who must have been a distant kin of Iliman or Hanuman. The original character of the Maruts, the chief among the Vedic Indra’s personal attendants is vague and shadowy in early Vedic literature. The Maruts were associated with the vedic god Rudra and were said to be the messengers of death, their name being derived from the root √mar, to die. The Maruts were said to be storm-gods (Pavan Putra Hanuman).
Ravana Was The Great Law-Maker Hammuravi, son of Mubalit. (He didn’t had 10 heads, but he had the wisdom of 10 men’s heads).
If Ram-Sin is identified as Rama his greatest Amorite enemy Hammurabi must be Ravana or Ravi-anna. This presents some difficulties although Valmiki’s version of the the abduction of Sita probably has more to do with poetic imagination than history. However, that she was the chief priestess of the moon-temple at Ur may have been at the root of some events of the politically turbulent era. There is a possibility that at some stage Ur was captured by Hammurabi. The chief-priestess of Ur was inviolable under Sumerian law and the fact that Ravana did not dishonour Sita may show his regard for law. The Battle between Khammu-ravi and Ram-Sin who led a group of Ten-Kings was one of the most famous events of Sumerian history. Whether the name Sin-Mubalit of Hammu-rabi’s father links him with Mahabali, a name of Bali, is uncertain but this may even be true. The Ramayana describes Ravana’s clashes with Bali which are clearly poetic in nature. Even here the fact that Bali carries Ravana in his lap may reveal his true relationship. Much has been written about Khammuravi that is undoubtedly true but in a sense Ram-Sin’s contribution has been underplayed. The great Assyriologist C. J. Gadd, however, termed Ram-Sin’s reign as the golden age of Sumer.
Bandar-e Lengeh In The Persian Gulf
The fact that Khammu-ravi’s palace has not been found in Babylon may be due to the presence of an older city named Babil in Eastern Iran. Although this is denied by the presently available archaeological evidence is likely that future excavations would unearth Hammu-rabi’s link with the Seistan area. Learned archaeologists like H. D. Sankalia of the Deccan College, Pune, were not aware of Jones’ blunder but wrote in clear terms that modern Sri Lanka cannot be the Lanka of Valmiki. Reference may be made here to Bandar-e Lengeh in the Laristan area of the Persian gulf. According to E. A. Speiser, many Sumerian city-names were echoes of the names of earlier cities in Elam. Thus Larsa may be an echo of Lar in the Gulf area. Lar was once the name of Gujrat. There may also have been an earlier Kish near Sih-talu. It may be Lanka of the Ramayana was near Bandar-e Lengeh. There is a small island near Lengeh which may also be significant. Some other names like Hetumant in the Helmand area remind one of Setuband. Dandanakan near Merv was on the Silk route and resembles Dandakavana.
Sanskrit, Vedas, Brahmins and Kshtriyas have created the biggest blunder in our history. They have brain-trained the public in vedic-pond frog mentality. You don’t want to think outside your borders.
@Mac : only if you were person with a little grey matter, I have pointed out to you earlier also but it seems that things don’t go past your THICK skull
Hammurabi the arch enemy of Arya Ram-sin didn’t had 10 heads, he is the Ravana of Mahabharata. It is the same mythical history written in Dasaratha Jhataka and Mahabharata.
you are again putting Ramayana and Mahabharata in the same time frame , are you totally devoid of human intelligence ? reading your “copy paste ” material makes me feel that i am conversing with a retard.
RikVeda (4.57.6) is talking about agriculture and sita means “line of a ploughshare” you can refer any Sanskrit dictionary for the meaning of “sita”, it deos not mean “`Auspicious Sita, come thou near, we venerate and worship thee’” i believe this is comming for your pathetic christian translations of veda where in “prajaPati” mean “Jesus Christ,saviour of the people”
besides that if RV talked about sita (the person) it means RV was composed after Ram, which is totally absurd as absurd as you are in person.
Besides did you not read
what i said
First of all There have been people with the name “Ram” all over the world and it does in no way conclude that others are the same as Maryada purushottam Shir Ram.
if someone worships Ram does it mean that he atomically becomes a credible historian and archeologist, are you nuts or what.
@Ankur,
I can’t believe you are so poor at it. Rig Veda 4:57.6 arvÁcI subhage bhava sÍte vándAmahe tvA yáthA naH subhágÁsasi yáthA naH suphálÁsasi.
Translation : Auspicious Sita (Godess of Furrow), come thou near: we venerate and worship thee / That thou mayst bless and prosper us and bring us fruits abundantly.
What is the meaning of venerate? Ram-sin, Warad-sin and Sita worshipped An, Enlil, and Enki at Elam and in Ur, Babylon. It is sanskritization which has screwed up everything and so rightly pointed out by our archeological and linguistics experts. When I say Elam, IT COVERS THE WHOLE INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION. You do not know anything outside veda and that is where you are stuck. You must have never tried to see the old Elam, Persian and Mesopotamian maps which are available on internet now. All your vedic scriptures are poetries of legends of folklores called myths.
I had given you so many references which exactly matches the events and names with your scriptures. Still, you are into your vedic pond-frog mentality of blunt denial. You even deny Dr Joshi who is the former Director General of the Archaeological Survey of India and Dr Rao, a former Deputy Superintending Archaeologist with the ASI.
I will give you another reference from the Bible of another Elamite King who ruled upto certain parts of NW India. Susa is the capital of Elam.
Esther 1:1-3 This is what happened during the time of Xerxes (Ashuraures), the Xerxes who ruled over 127 provinces stretching from India to Cush (Ethiopia). At that time King Xerxes reigned from his royal throne in the citadel of Susa, and in the third year of his reign he gave a banquet for all his nobles and officials. The military leaders of Persia and Media, the princes, and the nobles of the provinces were present.
Japheth was the youngest son of Noah. Early history shows the Japhethites split into two groups. One group settled in the region of present-day India and Central Asia, and the other group in the European theater. Indo-European languages originate from those people groups who migrated throughout western Eurasia (Europe, the Near East, Anatolia, and the Caucasus). Together they form what is known as the “Indo-European” family of nations. Both of these divisions trace their ancestry back to Japheth. For example, early Aryans knew him as Djapatischta (chief of the race), Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos, East Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter, the Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (pronounced “sheef” or “shaif”—and recorded his name in their early genealogies as the son of Noah, the forebear of their various peoples), and the variant Seskef was used by early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis had been lost, or was non-existent.
Genesis 10 is the Table of Nations. There were 70 nations born out of Noah’s 3 sons which I have listed in my Comment of September 6, 2012.
@Mac
Sorry, for interfering. But translation of verse Rig Veda 4:57.6 you have put not correct.
http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/rugveda_v2/pages/p768.gif
I don’t find any difference between your interpretation and my interpretation. Sita is the Godess of Furrow, a trench which links the source of water with the ploughed field. And, she was venerated as a Godess from the position of a Priestess of the temple in Ur, Iraq; and wherein An, Enlil, and Enki were worshipped. What Rim-sin (Arya Ram-anna) did in his rule of 60 years are also recorded.
In slang spanish mamacita means a hottie or a hot lady.
@Mac: As usual i really don’t like it to educate you, but for your kind info i don’t need a certificate in veda from you or you Christian evangelists, i can read and understand devnagri and sanskrit.
First of all there is no history and geography in veda so as i already said that veda cannot mention sita (the person, that was in times of Rama) as that would mean RV was written after Ram, which is absurd, you do not seem to understand historic timelines and basic naming of people, my cousin is named as vikramaditya, so should i replace the history of vikramaditya with my cousin’s life history ?
RK veda 4:57.6 ( a simple shadba artha(word meaning) for you though there is a “bhava artha” (deeper meaning) as well which you will not be able to related to)
Arvachi Bhav : may you dig deep in the earth
site : line of a ploughshare(furrow) {agriculture}
subhage : due to your glory
site tva vandamahe : we know your utilities and how to use you judiously
yatha : as a result of which
nah : for us
subhaga asisi : you bring good fortue to us
yatha : with which
naha : for our use
sufala asisi: bring great furits and results
so in short it means when a field is ploughed accurately with a plough making furrows deep enough, we will be blessed with great results and fruits,
You see in the whole mantra there is no mention of (GODDESS) as you stupidly assume, even in your copied translations it mentions furrow but alas confusion so easily creeps in uneducated and illiterate minds like that of yours.
BTW could you share with us the transliteration of RK veda 4.57.7 and 4.57.8 please. so that we are able to see how sita is actually in mentioned in rig veda.
Ram is your god and Sita his wife is not! How come? Fallen angels (nephilims, half angels half man) marrying daughters of men is pre-Noahic flood history. I had studied sanskrit as subject for two years but that is very long time ago. Again there were 300 major gods and goddesses worshipped in Mesopotamia of ancient times and their names have been sanskritized badly by those Medes people. Ur, Iraq use to be a HUB of idolatry, demon worship, sorcery, human and animal sacrifices and they use to have terafims (walking talking idols of local demons), there was much evil then. And all the descendents of the 3 sons of Noah were living together at Ur, Najaf and Fallujah, the sunni triangle of today, which is the old Babylon. Where they were building a tower under King Nimrod, son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah. God came down and confused their language that is why it is called the tower of Babel (confusion) as they were building a tower to reach to those who brought flood on earth and destroyed all flesh. From their God divided their tongue and they spread out in three groups in 3 different direction. One went north which is all Europeans, one went down south which is old Elam and another went towards Mitzraim (Egypt) at that time. This is before Dasrath, Ram or Bharat were born. Your rig vedic knowledge was with them in scrap form and was then later on put into writing with folklores and legends of folklores stories and the teachings of the fallen angels. King Nimrod was the greatest sorcerer of all times.
@Mac: what words should i use for your in decent langage , i am not sure. 🙂
you say there is not much difference between my and your interepretations, which i agree but that difference is on which you are concoting histories of the world, i hope that you know mathematics.Like one teaches a toddler i have to tell you, because you have not grown out of your pram.
the actual meaning of the mantra RV 4.57.6
Sita = furrow
if you dont know mathamatical operations in plain english
“Sita” in sanskrit means “Furrow” in English (this is called transliteration)
your interpretation
Sita = Goddess of Furrow
now do you see the difference and why is it so important? you are conniving to have added words ,to con volute the meaning of a physical thing i.e. “furrow” to “Goddess of furrow”.
as advised again and again and again… please consult a samskrit dictionary for the meaning of the SAMSKRIT word “Sita”.
To answer you Shri Ram is “NOT” GOD he was an exemplary person in every aspect of life and worth to be emulated.
Again you dont seen to understand there are NO FOLKLORE or STORIES in the VEDA do you have a problem in understanding this. I don’t think i need to go any further with an individual who does not have to knowledge of Nirukta,nighantu and the other scriptures that are a precursor to understand Vedic Samskrit,
and who relies of christian translations of the Veda which have been debunked long long ago and labelled as NON RELIABLE.
Advice to others at Agniveer, dear friends leave this MAC alone, he is adding nothing and wasting our precious time.so just let him be.
Let me make it clear that there were TWO Sitas. The RV verse we are talking about is from the first Sita who was a sister of Warad-sin brother of Rim-sin. She was exalted or venerated from the position of a High Priestess to a Goddess of Furrow. The second Sita is in your mythical poetries. The first one is in RV verse we were talking about.
Now, the question is this, what history do we have for Arya Ram-anna’s wife Sita? For the first Sita, the High Priestess of the temple of those 3 gods I mentioned in my above posts in Ur, Iraq was kidnapped by Hammurabi (Ravana). So how far your mythology goes and HOW come you rely on only ONE man’s writing? Does the laws of this world not require two or more witnesses to confirm the truth? One man wrote and you rely on it and came in another generation corrected and added some and deleted some and you rely on it. And, you call yourself from the reformed vedic sect. These things we have chewed and spitted it out before Christians canonnized 66 books of bible, leaving a world of scriptural literature aside.
Our scriptures are written over a 1600 years of time by 40 authors, different books confirming the same truth. All of it different historical proof of God’s works.
You deny your own vedic culture FIR.
Mac, Mr. Spanky, clearly has some issues. The fact that he is on here and insulting and disrespecting people here clearly shows he has mental problems. I think his mother didn’t take care of him as a child. She might have not breast feed him and now he has mother issues. I honestly think his father raped him as a child. That is why he went looking for a desert father who will meet his needs mentally and physically. Poor Mr. Spanky is always looking desperately to spank and get physical with someone so he can act as his father did on him to a poor unsuspected kid. Instead of insulting and stating he will spank people, he should see a doctor, so he won’t repeat the sins of his father.
Well, Ankur, I just want to add to my above comment few more answers and some questions.
QUOTE
To answer you Shri Ram is “NOT” GOD he was an exemplary person in every aspect of life and worth to be emulated.
UNQUOTE
Then, who is God? And, you also believe in Avtars, right. Please explain.
Secondly, I have a whole list of the works Arya Ram-Anna did in his 60 years rule, things he built and the prosperity he brought to the people in his kingdom. Now, he was a people’s king, he was most beloved. The only thing I dont have is the translation of the Persian dates thereto.
Was Valmiki studied in Takshashila University and he was a cheap high way robber? Well, by counting your dates, Takshashila Uni. was not there when Valmiki wrote some myths of Ramayan after tested by a Jain Sage. SO, where R V?
Do U have Valmiki’s original poetries? Or, with a blunt vedic lies, you will say YES, we do have! You are from a reformed vedic paganism sect, you still have to reform, brits by laws reformed you and stopped vedic evil rituals in their times and still you have to improve.
For it is written: ELAM will be ashamed because of his idolatry.
what nonsense are you speaking your jesus never said worship me as god krishna was the only figure to say he is god and to worship him? why dont you accept the man that actually said he was god? there is many evidence to say alot of things mentioned in the mahabharta are accurate if you are going to say krishna didnt exist your jesus is worse despite he only lived 2000 years ago?
Don’t get too excited. Read my comment of September 5, 2012 above or key Ctrl F and type in “Jesus claimed godship”, you will get there. I don’t like to repeat.
Wow, this from a guy who comes on this sight and insults everyone here by calling them demon worshipers. Seriously man, you have some major problems. You need to address the issues you have. The fact that you are still on here harassing everyone shows you really have mental issues and some deep rooted insecurities. And only some who has such deep rooted insecurities run around and claim no I’m just trying to save people is a convenient excuse. Seriously see a doctor and get your problems checked out. And yes, you are a retard, only a retard would go on someone else’s religious site and call everyone on there demon worshipers. You have problems. Get them addressed retard.
And watch the video: If Jesus was alive today he would burn the bible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEJji4J2_Y&list=UUJaWl9qZkMCnv2ZRNHjPGjw&index=1&feature=plcp
And the guy who made the video used to be a ex-Christian. He was actually a born again christian. Until he practiced meditation and connected with God. He realized how much bullshit is in the bible. He had an enlightenment experience and he knows that meditation talked about in the Gita is right. He knows Yoga and meditation is so right. And about 1% of the bible is right, if that. One day, if you are willing to be brave enough, maybe you can go ahead and meditate and connect with God directly instead of wasting your time fighting with people like a complete jerk who as mental problems.
And if Jesus was alive today, he would burn the bible, turn around and say to you,
“you are free brother.” And give you a hung with pure love.
LOL, you are certainly amusing! Its not me, who says that it is the Word of God which says that. Let me quote again those verses which clearly says that IDOLATRY IS DEMON WORSHIP.
And the rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can neither see, nor hear, nor walk: [Revelation 9:20]
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [Romans 1:23-25]
For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. [Ephesians 5:5]
Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry; [Colossians 3:5]
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you [Galatians 5:19-21]
Krishnarao, again idolatry brings darkness both inside and outside. Corruption is a vedic gene, deep rooted in vedic culture. We have corruption the vedic invention from Peon to President in India and there aint nothing you can do about it, UNTIL you worship the demons and not the only One Living God, God of Abraham.
Krishnarao, what do you call a donkey in your countryside you live??? Where I live, we call a donkey a donkey and a pig a pig.
That means your bible is a book of insults. simple as that. Just because your bible makes insults doesn’t make saying your insults right. it makes your bible a book of insults.
Next. this is a Vedic sight. We don’t believe in idol worship. we believe in meditating on the one God. And you praying to jesus is actually a form of idol worship as well. Get over yourself big boy. you are a idol worshiper.
And watch the video about Jesus burning the bible. The guy is an ex-christian. And now practices meditation. As the guy said, Jesus would take the bible burn it and than turn around say you are free brother. And give you a hug with pure love. Become free mr. mac. Release yourself from the chains of your bible.
Bro., As surely as I worship the living God, I can’t hate you in my darkest dreams because you are my flesh and blood, a desi brother, I just can’t.
But, you do not bring any substance in your arguments and you know I dont like to argue. I like to share truth, wisdom and historical proof. Anyway, let thy wilt be done.
See, what I think, I desire mercy and peace. For it I who killed Yeshua, the Son of God by my sins. I beat Him 40 minus one Roman lashes. At 40 Roman lashes a horse dies. And, I used the lashes with spikes in ’em, I tored down his body from back and front as well. I defaced Him, so that His Mother Mary can’t even recognize Him, I beat Him so badly and defaced Him. Then, I spitted on Him and fisted Him and then I made a crown of thorns and forced it on His head. Then I put the biggest cross on His shoulder and He had hardly any strength to carry it outside of the city to Calvery hill and I still beat Him all the way and He was unable to carry His cross, so I got Simon to carry it with Him unto Calvery hill and there I nailed Him to cross. He only lived about 3/4 hours on the cross, none of His bones were broken as it is written in the scriptures, because He was already dead when I approached Him. But, I did thurst a spear into His heart and water and blood flew out and He was already dead.
But, when He rose from death on the 3rd day, He calls me BROTHER. It takes away my breath, He is not ashamed or feel anything in between remorse and love THAT He calls me brother, so lovingly and I am a cry baby.
I have only one brother who is elder than me and His Name is Yeshua Ha Machiach.
You killed Jesus in your previous birth! So, you too believe in the Vedic concept of transmigration and reincarnation of souls.
Eph 4:5&6 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Eph 4:5&6 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
What is that supposed to mean? If you could be kind enough to elaborate further in simple layman’s term. In any case, Vicjags had a serious problem with a Vedic verse conveying a similar meaning. I do not how is he going to take this one? Probably, on face value, I guess.
In any case, Vicjags will be given a befitting reply by 7 pm after my shift is over.
Fine. BTW, Vicjags probably feels that the “Christian scientists” are probably exempt from following the scientific methodologies if they were to prove science from the Bible. And he does not bother to negate the pseudoscientific ideas that they bring forth in order to validate its teachings.
Even if the verse is removed from context, vicjags did not provide any proof that the miraculous healing had anything to do with Christ and Christianity as he very emotionally and vehemently claimed, what he did is went to great lengths to prove that the experiment results did not PROVE in any way the verse, besides the experiment still did not reached any concrete conclusions as he understands it.
In any case the verse has been there since Veda existed, so there is no need to PROVE what a verse means is in essence right or wrong, its interpretation (which existed before the experiment was conducted) may only find corroboration in modern science.
@MAC: one question : on what basis are you saying that RV is talking about the goddess but not the actual furrow does the goddess plough the field of the plough? Please back your argument but some logical way and not by hollow claims.
and as requested can you give me that translation of the next two verses 4.57.7 and 4.57.8 w.r.t your seeta claim.
Avatars is not a vedic concept, its from the purans, you need to get educated my friend.
There are mantras in AV which have the word “Krishna” in it do you mean to say that they are referring to Krishna of Geeta?
you are serious candidate for a new gen Einstein as far as your reasoning prowess goes 🙂
* does the goddess plough the field or the plough (machine) ploughs the field?
Mac, faulty, distorted, and half-baked interpretations of truth has the capacity to enchain the hearts and minds of generations.
what truth? the truth that christianity is one of biggest lies used to dominate the world?
It goes by the original blessings and curses of the law as God spoke to Moses AND the blessings and curses of Noah to his sons. Nothing knew, it still goes exactly as they have said.
The Word of God is ever green always. His Name is Yeshua Ha Mashaiach and He never changes.
yes his followers believed he was son of god but not god almighty the father and muslims give a good reply to this when jesus says he is like god he is trying to say him and the father both have the same purpose and if you saw god he would be like jesus as they believe god is invisible and they also say injeel was corrupted like the resurrection and crucification i respect jesus but dont see him as god unlike krishna who makes it clear in many verses there are few hindus who say krishna is the father while jesus is the son
here says tell the jews they are gods Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? and read Mark 24: 32-36,John 12:49,Joh 14:24 and read Mat 15:24 jesus tells them he has been sent only for israel and read John 20:16-18 christianity and islam are both false judaism if any of the abrahamic beilefs is the only good one
Jesus said: Who is good? Nobody is good except God Almighty.
He pours rain on good and bad and feeds both of them.
Yeshua Ha Mashaich is the goodness of God, the character of God, goodness. As He said to Moses at the burning bush, My goodness will go before you and I will close your eyes then and after that I will pass by and you will see a part of My back (Exodus 3).
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Job 38.41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?
Matthew 6:26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
There is this incredible ayat from the Honored Qur’an which indeed is a very profound text which leads Muslims to ask those who have the Book, (the Bible Scriptures)
“If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.” Sura 10:94 Yunus
Here it says that Muslims who were in doubt, to consult with those who have the Bible. Amazing but true…the Honored Qur’an points to the Bible.
Before opening it’s pages, always ask (du’a) of Allah to teach you the correct understanding when reading. Allah blesses those who sincerely are learners and seekers for righteousness. Taurat Jeremiah 29:13 ‘And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.’ Those who seek Allah, must seek with all the heart. May Allah bless you abundantly.
We the Body and Church of Christ have the Torah and the Injeel, ASK us and we will show you in which direction you should go.
yes except god almighty so how can you worship jesus? and those verses only show jesus as son of god not god almighty that you have to worship him and by te way jesus is not speaking this it was one of his followers by the way have you looked at the references which show jesus cant be god almighty that you christians believe in? and as for quran as i can remember it doesnt say the bible is corrupted but says christians claim isa is the son of allah and as for going back isnt that what muslims are doing when they make references that jesus never said he was god almighty? as it is true the new testament has been changed espically some of the words
eg according to biblical scholors Acts 8:37 where philip says jesus is the son of god it didnt exist in any greek manuscript before 600 ad one of most widly verses used by christians to show jesus was peaceful is Matthew 5:44 the earliest manuscript say But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you and then now we have But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. see the difference i respect jesus but i think the early christians simply changed his true msesage he probably didnt even say he was a prophet i think personally think jesus if existed was like gandhi going against roman rule like he did against british
From Adam to Moses to Abraham and the rest of the prophets talks about the coming of Messiah, this Jesus Christ, the begotten Son of God, all thru the scriptures. All creation is created for His glory, Yeshua the Shekinah (glory) of God. For God says: I shalt not give My glory to nobody…….
God Himself calls Yeshua “O God” ;
Pslam 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son He (God) says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God (Yeshua), your God (YWHW), has set You above Your companions by anointing You with the oil of joy.
Lamentations 5:19 You, O LORD, reign forever; Your throne endures from generation to generation.
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when God brings His first begotten into the world, He says, “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”
Not just human beings, but it is the EXPRESS desire of God that all creation including angels should worship Yeshua Ha Mashaiach.
It is the EXPRESS desire of God Almighty, Eloha THAT all creation worship Him————>Yeshua, the Son of God. God do not accept worship and praise UNLESS it comes thru Yeshua. God has put all creation under His feet. First, read the Gospel and Torah, which you do not understand and then ask me a question. Start it from John. I will teach you.
no that is why the jews say jesus did not fulfill the jewish messiah prophecy the jews know more about the book than the christians who follow jesus
Whether you are a vaishnav or a muslim. It is I who studied all thru in an orthodox jewish school. What they believe or not, I know you dont.
Jews have the torah and the prophets; and the oral law. Also the Covenant and the promise of a Messiah, a Deliverer as God promised Moses, Abraham, Jacob and David is theirs. We, christians have the Gospel, the Torah and the prophets and above all Messiah, the Son of God, Yeshua Ha Mashiach, God in flesh and His grace. We are children of Abraham by Faith, Yeshua, his friend. For Abraham was not yet circumcized at the age of 99 and he believed in the word of God and His promise. So it was credited to him as righteousness. So, righeousness comes by Faith and His Name is Yeshua Ha Mashiach.
Those jews who believed in Yeshua Ha Mashiach are the messianic jews called christians. But, for the rest of the jews who didnt believed Yeshua, God’s promise to the patriarchs still stands. It would be fulfilled in the second coming of Yeshua Ha Mashiach.
There is one life, one hope, one death, one resurrection, one Lord, one judgement day and one God, who is all in all and above all, Blessed be His Name forever and forever. Amen!
also that website is not good website but it still goes against your views
Jesus Would be the first to burn the bible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEJji4J2_Y&list=UUJaWl9qZkMCnv2ZRNHjPGjw&index=1&feature=plcp
@vicjacs,
Bro., I mul have to say that these guys do not have decorums, eitiquets or no reverance while they discus. Even on their own religious blog they dont have any of that. I was wondering for a discourse, a respectable discourse on this blog, but I have not found one as yet, not one.
Do you think, I am wrong? Well, I just came here to share, discuss and discourse, but I have not found one yet!
May be I am wrong and they are right in their blindfaith.
Blessed be the Name of the Adonai Elohim, Tz Va Ot. Holy Holy Holy is our Lord.
Free yourself from the chains of your bible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEJji4J2_Y&list=UUJaWl9qZkMCnv2ZRNHjPGjw&index=1&feature=plcp
@Mac says: (November 30, 2012 at 8:40 am)
I agree with you that idol worship is not the best form of connecting to god. but then every one does that, some do it in church or carry a cross (which is symbol of evil, as it was used to crucify peoples long before and after Jesus was crucified), some to kaba, some to idol. for me they are all same.
Now can you explain what is the need of church or bible. As both were not made by Jesus. In-fact there are many versions of Bible. So which one is true one and which one to follow. For me Jesus was a good person and wanted to do good, but he was no god, he himself said that.
Now let me tell you about my belief. I believe that God is everywhere, he does not need a medium, other than myself to tell me what is good or what is bad. my conscious tells me that. I meditate to that god and thanks him for everything I have. I do not have to pay to anyone or any organization, so that god will listen to me.
@Mayank, Your comment is very genuine, I have to say it. Firstly, I am a protestant, Caths keep some statues of Jesus in their church property, but they actually do not bow down to it and worship it. A church building is a place of worship where people gather to worship God. But, in fact, when you say Church, it is the Body of Jesus, we, whom God called us to Himself and we, whom Jesus gathered us ARE the Church and Body of Christ. Another thing, I want to make it clear is that Roman Catholic Catechism and Christianity are two different things.
Bible or Biblia means the complete book, it has a beginning and an end and the rest. Versions are for lucidity for various peoples to understand the scriptures in their lingua franca, it is the same thing, exampli gratia; Patthar, Patros or Peter means rock or stone.
In fact, God is not everywhere, but there is nothing in this creation which is hidden from His eyes, not even the barest of the deepest oceans are hidden from His eyes. All creation lay bare before His eyes. He sits above the upper waters in unapproachable lights (distance) from us, not even the rays of the sun has ever reached Him since creation.
When Jesus said: It is finished. And let away His spirit. There was a great earthquake, the sun went into hiding and there was thunder and lightining, the curtain of the temple was torn from top to bottom and the Shekinah (glory) of God left the temple. NOW, if you want to come to God, Jesus is the only Way. We cannot reach God except thru Jesus. Its written: If the Son forgives, the Father will also. Its also written: God was reconcilling the world to Himself looking thru the blood of Jesus Christ and He didn’t found no sin which can’t be cleansed by the blood of Jesus, His only begotten Son.
Revelations: The One who rides the white horse, His Name is Faith(ful). He is the substance of this Creation, Yeshua Ha Mashiach is His Name.
I agree with you mayank. Yoga and meditation is the true way. No idols nothing else. Only meditate on the One God.
i love how you cant reply back so start talking to your fellow christian i know you hate agniveer it doesnt matter
@Amul Arya: so true. Look what kind of convoluted way of thing this individual has and what kind of society would such “Christian” way of thought build.
In this short chapter Paul lucidly explains the human predicament . “Oh what a wretched man I am, for what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do” that was also my cry.. And what rescued me was knowledge…The Knowledge that I am not pleasing God by my actions; THAT GOD LOVES ME REGARDLESS OF MY NEEDS. It is the people who love Mother Teresa and hates Osama bin Laden, God’s love is impartial and he equally loves both of them. All my karma and so called good and bad deeds are worthless in the eyes of God and I don’t reach him by my own righteousness, but by his righteousness.
So essentially there is no difference in the between laden and teresa on the spiritual markings for god, they both stand same changes to receive gods’s grace, but god has to make a choice and out of his whimsical behaviour he can only choose either of them ,(as we have to leave the karma out as our great christian vicjags thought holds).Such a GOD is worth to be praised, obvious no matter what kind of actions one does in life kill men, rape women, do all that is inhuman this GOD will still shower his grace on you the only thing you have say is Halleluiah and accept JESUS as the ONLY way of Salvation.
Such Pity.
yes and go read what i replied to mac i respect jesus but dont see him as god i respect all faiths but im against christians and muslims because they radical and spread lies
@Mac : you yourself say ..as Faith without deeds is dead. ya i am totally agree with you.
in other words Faith without karma is dead. so we agree.No problems.
@Mac : stupidity knows no bounds here..
There is no reason to compare karma with God’s grace , first leads to latter.
Then you ask me have i sinned , if there is no value of karma, why should sin even come into picture for salvation.
Karma is measured by corruption in India and we know that corruption is there from Peon to President. Karma has value, but it has to come thru Faith (Yeshua Ha Mashaiach). And, once Faith is there, Karma will automatically follow; as Faith without deeds is dead.
Luke 6:38 “Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”
Until Jesus came, people of Abrahamic faith were under the law. The wages of sin is death, thats the law. If a kid curses its father or mother, it should be stoned to death. Now, Israel observed the law as a matter of deeds. They keep sinning and offered sacrifices as per the law or enforced the law with death sentence. In fact, the law was given to avoid sinning or breaking it, instead they observed it as a matter deeds making it weak.
Paul: The law was given so that sin may abound and wherever the sin abounded, the grace of God abounded all the more.
We are saved by the grace of God. Grace is free and she is the Sister of Faith. But, until Faith is not there, she is not going to follow Him.
Leviticus 19:9-10 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God. ”
Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, …
1 John 3:17 But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Hebrews 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
2 Corinthians 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
SDC 03:12 I inherit the capacity to sin and to do good at the same time. So, there is absolutely no need to get worked up. Just attune yourself to doing all that is good and virtuous and the rest shall work itself out. Read the Cherokee Legend of Two Wolves for more inspiration.
@Mac : you yourself say ..as Faith without deeds is dead. ya i am totally agree with you.
in other words Faith without karma is dead. so we agree.No problems.
The true “rationalist” in Vicjags finally gets exposed. It is very strange that pseudo-rationalist Vicjags accuses others of running a farcical show when he himself ducks for cover when pointedly asked to denounce the pseudoscientific ideas propagated by a certain religious group guided by vested interests especially in “harvesting of souls.” This pseudo-rationalist then goes on a character-assassination overkill.
This pseudo-rationalist the other day was trying to establish energy healing practiced by the Red Indians as a pseudoscience but is unabashedly preaching faith healing. I just wanted to bring to his attention that faith healing and placebo effect work on almost similar lines.
So, what did he expect? That we should be working to establish a Christian country where a woman has to die for being denied a medical termination of pregnancy! And, to top it all, he also wants us to ignore the excesses committed by the Christian extremists in our very own country.
Must say, he is an interesting character with an unusual strategy. I would like to sum up Vicjags’ strategy in 1 sentence: changing gears at will (from being a rationalist to an evangelist and then doing a volte-face when faced with bitter truths), being evasive, tacit approval of a certain brand of pseudoscience.
In part II, the real Vicjags comes to the fore who all the while was trying to project himself as a rationalist. He realizes the vanity of apologetics knowing full well that it will fall flat on its face and prefers to go the evangelism route instead trying to brainwash mediocre brains into the faith. He also talks of establishing a direct relationship with God through evangelism (zealous preaching and dissemination of the gospel, as through missionary work).
He is attacking his own ill-contrived assumption that the Hindus do not know the purpose of their lives. The superficiality of his knowledge of Hindu philosophy is thus brought forth as he tries to assert that in the end game the Hindus are the greatest losers. The theory of karma is inextricably linked to the theory of the eternality of soul, the theory of transmigration of soul and the concept of moksha (liberation from all karmic influences). He seriously needs some education on philosophies of Hinduism.
its not bad loving you or not your deeds and morality is what makes your character if jesus died for sins why do you make christians pray to jesus again to forgive your sins?
God Bless U Brother! You are politically correct and politics is my subject. We both use the same kinda sword of truth, Word of God, just in different manner. The Sword of Truth which separates the bone from the bone marrow. It is the Word of God, depends on how the Holy Spirit guides you. It is your domain. In my fields, I dont keep scare-crows, but you surely are doing good God’s work.
Mac, armed with the Sword of Truth, you are an hematologist too, brother. Jokes apart, is he really doing God’s work?
Yes, he is doing God’s work. Faith has been given to us in different proportions. It is his domain he does and I would not mess up with his domain, it is his God given domain. And, he is doing good.
I am a soldier of Salvation. We use the Sword of Truth, the Word of God, which divides the bone from the bone marrow. It is a double edged Sword of Truth, the Word of God, which melts the bones.
Bereshith means in the beginning (Bara plus shith means created in six);
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
” why it is ill-advised to defend Christianity in forums such as these”
“while I continue more important issues..”
Keeping cling on the same wrong tree !
🙂 …. :)……
Take my advise brother abhi; Never say “sick god”. Why you want to die before your appointed time. 1 Timothy : God is not mocked, it is what you say is going to come back to you. He sits above the upper waters in unapprochable lights (distance) from us. Where the rays of the sun has never reached since creation.
Lets do some reality check about God’s partiality and impartiality. 1st Commandment…..
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
Isaiah 42:8 “I am the LORD; that is My Name! I will not give My glory to another or My praise to idols.
THIS is why Israel has no peace;
Deuteronomy 32:15-21 But Jeshurun (Israel) waxed fat, and kicked: Thou art waxed fat, thou art grown thick, thou art become sleek; Then he forsook God who made him, And lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols. They sacrificed to demons, which are not God–gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. The LORD saw this and rejected them because he was angered by his sons and daughters. “I will hide my face from them,” he said, “and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful. They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding.
Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
On the judgement day, your own conscience will judge you.
Jesus Would Be the First to Burn the Bible – I AM Spirituality 0074
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEJji4J2_Y
i thought ur friend said the sick god wud love humans no matter what deeds , what is that? what u guys say and what ur scriptures say totally contradicts. stick to one trash ideology and debate
The glory of praise and worship belongs to Him, Father God Almighty, we so loving call Him, Abba means Father.
I mul tell you, JUST ONCE try to call your neighbour DADDY in front of your own earthly DADDY, rest you will understand.
The God of Abraham is the only Living God, the Creator and the Destroyer, you cant add anything to His creation neither take away anything. He is above the Creation, not just this universe, get it.
Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is My Name! I will not give My glory to another or My praise to idols.
Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.
@Mac we believe god is everywhere so whether u call a rock or earth or any human or animal as god or not doesnt matter. but we dont say daddy is everywhere and call others as dad. u hav given a stupidest anology. anyway give proper reply to question above
typo error … answer the question below
mac and vigjags are just angry christian missionaries
moreover you just proved that the god of abrahamic faith is sick and fake with the verses u hav qouted.
he gets angered and jealous , what has he got to lose?? any property of his? or has his ego got hurt by a speck on a speck kind of existance? why does this ssick god needs praises , is he narcissist or a praise monger? cant he live without these?
also why does he need his dumb followers to convert all others ?? is he feeling lonely? does he want to accompanied?? what does he gain by doing so? lets say everything in this universe is his own , then what is the point in making again something which belongs to him his own.?? is any other god competing with him??? , r they in a race to make highest number of followers??
the god in abrahamic faith is not a universal god. and he just an alter ego of whoever described (in ur scriptures) as he is.
You have a double doze of moronic blood in you. I have seen stupid, dumb and filthy arguements on this blog. Butch you are Uno Numero, Laverga Putto! You are that village idiot who goes out and calls strangers, your Dad. Try calling it in front of your earthly Dad, try one time. I guess your real Dad will spank the puppy out of you.
Ask your Dad and Mom, why the hell they brought you into this world? And, try calling your earthly Dad, Chupacabra. Before judging God, what a rabied chihuahua you are, littering with filth and nonsense!
mr dumbass mac i hav already answered ur question , if u dont hav an answer to my question just shut ur ass and dont fart like this
God may love me as much as he wants to, but I still have to shoulder the responsibility of my actions and deal with the repercussions.
@Mac
u r just supporting my above statements abt ur (demi-)god with ur qoutes
and give correct replies to my comment above. think and give reply, i will not post it again.
also Tell me why is god a “HE” or Father???
also look into nasadiya sukta .
except for astronomical recordings which gives age when rama existed, rest is not so reliable to say rama really existed , the stories of rama being told in various places outside india all lie in ADs
@Mac
//…..East Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter,….//
prajapati >>pra+ja+pati here pati mean lord/master and ja means “to produce” same as in the root word jana or gene
where as in jupiter , piter means father and ju means god or big great which is same as zeus of greek pantheon, in fact jupiter was named after zeus
if u dont know go and ask some linguist
What I wrote is the research and study of world linguists. This site is a religious site, you need to check on indiaculture.net, wherein more fair and knowledgeable comments are shared.
what u hav posted is definitely a mistake , u r just playing with words similar in phonetics not etymological. u shud consult a linguist.
I have covered almost all the people living on the face of this earth. Genesis 10 is the Table of Nations and it covers all, it is the geneology of mankind traced back to Noah. Ctrl F type “Table of Nations”, get the September 6, 2012 comment, it is lengthy, but it almost covers all.
common really u believe that noah/flood trash? and everything coming one race is fallacy , i would rather believe in scientific explanation on evolution and not some shit like things evolving from adam , eve. there r many researches done in the field of genetics which explains migrations/mixtures way b4 the creation of earth with respect to biblical times.
Noah’s flood is a history. It is visible with naked eye from an airplane or a helicopter, if you fly over Grand Canyon, Alps, Andies, etc, it has dug thru great trenches and valleys, the waters have carved thru. What my comment on Table of Nations gives is more than Science, DNA, archeology, linguistics, history, etc, etc. So instead of hanging on the vedic tail like a bug, go on and read yourself.
ever watched those science documentaries rather than just reading ur scriptures?? the timelines of those u mentioned are different from what is in ur scripture, its not in years , its many many thousands and sometime millions(maybe billions) of years. america was supposed to be under water , it was not even a continent a lot of million years back. proof for it can be found in many strata of fossils (of aquatic beings) deposited in grand canyons and its surroundings. later came dinosaurs which are an evolved forms of aquatice beings. go watch some science documentaries thesis and journals b4 u spout nonsense here
Bro., Although you have a filthy mouth. I mul tell you on this evolution, if you go and read the main article we are commenting on, Agniveer defies evolution. For my comment you have to go by Ctrl F “Mac”, I have also commented some on evolution and I don’t want to repeat or fill this blog. I am here to share not to defy my desi brothers. There are likes and dislikes in every person, but the truth remains, we have to discourse it and find it and share it. Thats why I am here.
yeah yeah like whatever ur filthy mouth blabbers is right. i will only take what science says abt evolution as right not some deser bloc scriptures.
u r jsut playing with words here , looking at them phonetically not etymologically , learn some linguistics b4 u comment ur trash here.
and we take the whole creation and creator as god , so agniveer deifying evolution is also right, which ur mud/sand brain cannot comprehend.
by the way u havent answered my first question to u.
for those idiots who r playing with words here is the sanskrit dictionary. look for meanings here, instead of selfcreated dickshnary.
http://spokensanskrit.de/
Conditions:
1. One who kills innocents (in-fact entire civilizations) flood and all,
2. One who gets angry, obsessed, jealous
3. Can not do anything right the first time and have to send multiple versions of book(s) and commandments, each contradicting each other. old commandment, new commandment and we can add the noble Quran also. I have left Bible out of it as it is not Holy God words but just collections from many man made books.
I can add many more to the list. Now anyone who displays the above characteristic cannot be God, human certainly but not God.
Now for me any one who displays above characteristic can not be God, human certainly but never Holy God.
lets not forget GOD of abrahamic faiths is male, and he behaves like a human
This video is done by an ex-Christian who was a born again Christian. He practiced meditation and had truly beautiful experience with the divine. Now he is just a spiritual person.
Jesus Would be the first to burn the bible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEJji4J2_Y&list=UUJaWl9qZkMCnv2ZRNHjPGjw&index=3
Ok, If jesus Loves us and cares for us , Why is there poverty , Starvation, disease , war …………??
If at all he cared for everyone and loved us , Everyone should have the same opportunities , but that is not the current case. For Eg. A boy born in U.S has more chance of being a graduate than a boy born in a refugee camp in remote part of Africa.
When one guy is rich and another poor, Jesus is being Biased.
When I pray to Ram and does acknowledge Jesus , As per the Bible ,I am going to Hell……He is Cruel.
If Jesus is the true Lord , Why is this world dirty? Why should he wait for the Judgment day when he is able to see people suffering. He is a Sadist??
But In sanatana Dharma, Karma is the answer for all the above questions . Christianity and Islam have ideologies that is insulting to the Almighty .
P.S I see many stickers saying “Jesus saves You” , When he was not even able to save himself from Crucification , How do you expect him to save us??
With all due regards , I consider Jesus as a preacher of Buddhist Philosophy and I consider him as a teacher.
Awaiting your reply,
Why do Christians worship torture?
Till date why none of the religious books talk about dinosaurs?
There is astronomical evidence which suggests that dinosaurs existed.
Why every religion fails to have even simple mention of dinosaurs?
Dunno about other religions, but Vedas are for humans. Dinosaurs did not exist when humans came. So discussion on dinosaurs is not relevant. Vedic texts suggest that before humans came, all other animals had come. So Vedas start from there.
Agniveer Mahoday
” Dinosaurs did not exist when humans came.”
Did you mean to say “Dinosaurs had ceased to exist when humans came.” ?
After all, Vedic texts suggest that before humans came, all other animals had come, incl. the dinosaurs.
We meant that details on something that is not to be seen by humans, is not relevant because Vedas are to guide humans towards Mukti. Nonetheless, we have not researched Vedas from perspective of pre-human history of planet and hence cannot categorically state what is Vedic view on dinosaurs. But even if there is no reference, that is reasonable to us.
so you say you are not sure as vedas doesnt say so then why do you think dinosaurs become extinct and what are your views on big bang and if you say you dont know can i accept evolution as i come orginally from agnostic background but arya samaj attracts me to it
Jay, We don’t find evolution to be against Vedas. Whether it actually happened or something else happened, is a different question that experts can explore. So far there has been a direction/ purpose, it is in sync with Vedas. The traditional model is that first humans were born asexually as youth and then sexual reproduction started henceforth. Nothing wrong with this model.
But if any alternate model be provided that more and more intelligent species evolved from primates, this may also be an acceptable model. However one thing is sure that at some point in time, some of these intelligent species got evolved beyond a threshold. They got inspiration of Vedas and initiated civilization. In our definition, these were first humans. How they came – asexually or through evolution is immaterial.
However our views on this subject be considered speculative as current study plus research is not sufficient enough to reach any conclusive stand on this issue.
Jay and Agniveer,
I do agree with Agniveer’s response on this issue. Vedas do contradict science on this issue. I am not a Vedic scholar but from what I heard the Vedas do say we evolved. Now how that evolution went about, it is up to debate.
And I know for sure that the Vedas do believe in the Big Bang Theory. Many scientists actually took that idea from the Vedas and explored it further. Even in mainstream Hinduism it talks about the way Siva started the universe with a massive explosion. That is why Siva has a ball of fire in one hand.
Dhanyavad,
Krishnarao
Typo:
I accidentally wrote “Vedas do contradict science on this issue”
Correction:
The Vedas do NOT contradict science on this issue.
if thats true than i would like to accept evolution and big bang and arya samaj teachings
@ Jay Arya
I don’t know what vedas say about big bang but below is the link where Vivekananda presents advaita point of view on it before Einstein and other scientists proposed their theories.These are the same views of Adi Shankaracharya and Gautama Buddha.
http://www.vivekananda.net/BooksBySwami/JnanaYoga/6_AbsoluteManifestatin.html
This theory is as relevant today as Einsteins theory.
Just want to add something.I posted this link on Dawkins website within 48 hrs it was removed.And they talk about free speech.
yes some athiests and agnostic are radical me and swami vivekanand were similar he also didnt believe in a god until he came in contact with rama krishnna just like i came in contact with arya samaj and i respect swami vivekanand and shankaracharya for their spread of hinduism but i dont follow the same philisophy i follow the one by swami dayanand saraswati and in some sense by madhvacharya so thank you for you message but i would like answer by agniveer
[…] was neither divine nor an avatar or a god he was a great historical arya king.. Who was Rama – Myth or Historical Hero We present an insightful article by eminent scholar of Vedas and History – Sri Rajveer Arya […]
Dear sir,
For your kind information The word mentioned in new testament, Mathew ch 2/18 Rama is not as you
pronounce, but it is Ramah., eventhough it is a Noun. It is an Historicalcal city which now is a very
small village.
Dear sir,
For your kind information The word mentioned in new testament, Mathew ch 2/18 Rama is not as you
pronounce, but it is Ramah., eventhough it is a Noun. It is an Historicalcal city which now is a very
small village. and aslo Rama was born some 100000 years before sounds absurd.
Dear All,
I read through the entire comments section. It is utterly disgusting and irritating to see Mac keep repeating the same thing again and again. I am disappointed to see people even going into a debate with him. there is no point in arguments without conclusions. Mr. Mac for sure has made up his mind on which side he is in. Through his comments, I see that he watches, hears and listens to things he wanted to. That is, which supports his belief and he just cannot accept anything else.
There is no point in a logical debate with these guys. I request that going forward, we should avoid or deliberately ignore the comments by these people after we realize they are not open to different ventures in realizing the ultimate truth.
My request again to Admins / Agniveer to continue your quest with an eye to look into the Science of the Vedas. As I believe it is a scientific text rather than a religious text like the Abrahamic religions. This is the reason why the Vedas should be eternal, as the laws of nature are eternal.
Thanks and best regards,
Arun
i have thought agniveer follow swami dayanand but today post show it just claim agniveer is bjp agent not arya samaji
Who was Rama – Myth or Historical Hero
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