Upanishads and Criticisms

Upanishads-and-Criticisms
This article is response to the allegations made against Upanishads from time to time by the self appointed Masters of Hinduism and paid Anti Hindu lobby. What a joke that most of those obsessed with Upanishads can hardly write Upanishad in Devnagri script and split it (Sandhi Vichheda) to know its meaning, forget about knowing Sanskrit grammar that is essential to open the mouth on theology of Upanishads.

What an irony that this pool of criticizers is full of Women Rights’ Activists that have issues with Yajnavalka asking Gargi to keep quiet in debate in Upanishads but they digest, like their Mom’s milk, the divine concepts of beating of wives, raping of captive women, sex slavery, polygamy, Coitus Interruptus with concubines etc sanctioned by their DIVINE BOOKS and PROPHETS.

Zombies, who are in delusion that they possess ‘ultimate truth’ as told by above Books and Prophets and advocate killing of apostates (someone who leaves ‘ultimate truth’), can leave this page now. Because someone, who can be killed/can kill others, for doing honest research and taking honest steps, will never read anything honestly. For rest, this article will surely help remove confusions. Lets begin!

1. Upanishads contradict each other and they are unrelated

The above criticism is something that is spurious and we will see why it is so right away, with examples. Let us take the theological concept of “One Only” or “Ekam Eva” and integrate a few sections of some of the key Upanishads.

 

  • Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3/9/ 1 – 9: This contains the way Yajnavalka narrows down the Vedic deities from a few thousand to just ONE Supreme Being.
  • Chandogya Upanishad 6/1/1-7 and 6/2/1-3 deal with the same concept by way of Shvetaketu receiving instructions from his Father.
  • Svetasvatara Upanishad 6/10-13 deals with the same concept of a unitary, eternal, Supreme Being.
  • Maitri Upansihad 6/17 deals with the same concept on how this Supreme Being is inconceivable.

 

We could go on and one but the point is that the Upanishads approach the Supreme immutable truth in multiple ways and try to articulate the manifest and un-manifest aspects of the Brahman. For those that are deluded, the multiple points of view may amount to contradictory perceptions but Upanishads are the epitome of an attempted understanding of the immortal, immutable Brahman by mortals caught in the dynamism of this Universe. And Upnaishads represent the Dharmic ethos of the acceptance of multiple viewpoints of the same Supreme Brahman.

 

2. Upanishads are against Vedas, call Vedas to be of lower knowledge and look down upon karmas prescribed in Vedas (based on Mundaka Upanishad).

This allegation stems from a willful misunderstanding of what Mundaka Upanishad is broadly articulating. The Para or Higher knowledge is the knowledge of the Supreme Being while the Apara or Lower Knowledge is that of following sacrificial rites and ceremonies. While the criticism (part of it) is that this Upanishad condemns rituals, can someone explain Mundaka Upanishad 1/2/ 1 – 6? These verses actually give a walkthrough of the right way of doing a sacrifices / rites.

The message of this Upanishad, when understood completely, with the help of a teacher is that the karma kanda sections of Vedas, when practiced, lead a soul to luminous worlds due to the Vedic rituals that were performed by making the Supreme Truth as the object. But the returns of this are temporary, as, the soul does not attain salvation but returns back to earth, due to lack of knowledge and understanding of the immutable truth.

However, to attain salvation or mukthi, after progressing in the karma kanda practice, one has to attempt to understand / obtain the higher knowledge Para. This higher knowledge can be attained only by knowing the Self and that is the way to salvation. And verses 2/2/4, 3/1/5 – 10, expound the same. And when this Upanishad calls someone a fool, it is so because, when salvation is superior to landing again on earth (after exhausting the kitty of good deeds accumulated during a lifetime) those that think that latter is all there are obviously missing something.

And let us also understand this. If a student has to understand calculus is math, the student ought to already know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. Similarly, karma kanda is needed before one transitions to a higher plane to understand the superior cause of this Universe. Only those that are bred in seeking out schisms will try to play karma kanda against jnana kanda. And we should not be surprised at their desperation.

 

3. Verse from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad with sexual and male chauvinistic overtones

Let us set the framework right away – if there is something that is not acceptable ethically in verses of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, we have no qualms in passing them or say rejecting them. But can the fans of the famous Doctor do the same with Quranic verses and with Hadiths? Without much ado, let us dive deeper.

We are dealing with verses 6/4 – 7. The verses in question are part of the third and last section of the Upanishad (the three sections being – Madu section, Yajnavalka section and Khila section) and they occur as part of procreation ceremonies. This verse occurs in the context of a lady conceiving a child as a sacred rite and not a mere act of ejaculation into a cervix. The previous verses expand the origin of this Universe by the sacrifice of Purusha (of RV). This Upanishad repeats this idea of Purusha Sukta is other places like 1/4/1 – 5 and also talks about the cosmogony by symbolizing this Universe as a Horse.

Anyway, in the context of the above verse, Prajapati creates a woman from himself and given she is going to bear the progeny, actually revers her. In the next verse, the physiology of a lady’s pelvis is equated to the altar of sacrifice (yajna) and the sexual act of intercourse as a sacrifice to form progeny. Then there is a verse that talks about semen needing to have its vitality. The next verse talks about a prayer to bestow vigor, manhood, womanhood, her beauty etc. And then comes the verse which mentions that if a woman is unyielding despite being cajoled into making love, she should be hit and that the husband should withhold the glory. Further verses go on to talk about conception and child birth. The withholding of glory part pertains to denying the woman a right to bear progeny by abstaining from sex.

Now, we find the verse about hitting the wife, out of place, as, in Rig Veda, the wedding rites and the chants to Asvins for bestowing vitality and childbirth and the way wife is treated are quite different from the verses mentioned about hitting the wife in this Upanishad. So we inclined to reject these questionable verses and they obviously appear to be later day additions. The same applies to the verses in the same Upanishad that talk about complexions of progeny and the kind of food that is to be eaten.

 

4. Chandogya Upanishad has sexual overtones

Verses 2/13/1 – 2:  Well, people jump & swing from one corner to another to simply highlight the sexual overtones. But they have obviously not paused to reflect upon the idea behind the analogy. From the 2nd Prapathaka / Kanda 11 – 21, explain the fivefold Vedic chant in 10 different ways.  Sexual act is a poetic expression of the nature of this 5 fold chant. I am quoting verses before and after the verses in question to drive home the point.

Verse 2/11/1:  The wind is a Hinkara. Speech is a Prastava. The eye is an Udgitha. The ear is a Pratihara. The breath is a Nidhana.

Verse2/14/1: The rising sun is a Hinkara. The risen sun is a Prastava. Mid-day is an Udigtha. Afternoon is a Pratihara. When sun sets it is a Nidhana.

Verse 2/17/1: The earth is a  Hinkara. The antariksha is a Prastava. The sky is a Udigtha . The regions of the compass are a Pratihara. The ocean is a  Nidhana.

The next few verses use weather, elements, animals etc to draw an analogy with the way the chant has to be rendered. Those that have no clue about the ebb and flow of how Vedic chants are rendered cannot see anything other than pornography with the verses.

Verse 5/8/1:  Just like the above verse, sexual overtone in this verse, is an instrument to express the course of formation of the likes of rain, food, immortality, sexual desire and foetus. The basis for this verse will be found in the 3rd kanda of the Upanishad where it starts with Svetaketu being questioned about his Vedic knowledge in an assembly of Panchalas. Here are a few preceding verses to drive home the point that Upanishads are not about pornography but rather they use sexual organs / act as a poetic expression, in parallel with what we saw above and what  we are going to see below.

Verse 5/4/1 – 2: Yonder world, verily, O Gautama, is a sacrificial fire. In this case the sun is the fuel; the light-rays, the smoke; the day, the flame; the moon, the coals; the stars, the sparks.  In this fire the gods offer faith (sraddha). From this oblation arises King Soma.

Verse 5/5/ 1 – 2: The rain cloud, verily, O Gautama, is a sacrificial fire. In this case wind is the fuel; mist, the smoke; lightning, the flame; the thunderbolt, the coals; hailstones, the sparks. In this fire the gods offer King Soma. From this oblation arises rain.

Verse 5/6/1 – 2:  The earth, verily, O Gautama, is a sacrificial fire. In this case the year is the fuel; space, the smoke; night, the flame; the quarters of heaven, the coals; the intermediate quarters of heaven, the sparks. In this fire the gods offer rain. From this oblation arises food.

So if our friends wish to see pornography in the verses leaving out the true picture, it is their choice.

 

5. Unscientific concepts in Upanishads: 

Someone seems to have forgotten to check his own backyard on this topic but let us see what the deal really is here.

Chandogya Upanishad 8/13/1: The whole of 8th prapathaka deals with the nature of soul. The idea of moon releasing itself from the mouth of Rahu is an allegory concerning the eclipse. People accustomed to taking literal meanings of their BOOK seem to apply the same yardstick here. The takeaway from this verse is just that a perfected soul, after shaking off blemishes across births, finally passes into Brahman’s abode and ceases to be born again. The verses talks about shaking off body and shaking off evil to attain perfection to proceed onward to Brahman’s abode. That is that. And if astronomy literally takes the expression of moon and Rahu’s mouth, they will be unable to predict eclipses in Panchang with such accuracy.

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3/3/2: Again, the one that is criticizing this verse is missing the idea. Upon special request, we can share a picture of the Quranic idea of how this earth is supported, as a picture. But parking that aside Yajnavalka is seen here responding to a question by Bhujyu Lahyayani on what were the ends of the earth and where did the performers of the rites that homologize the horse as the Universe go. And the verses in this section of the Upanishad deal with the various rites and rewards.

Here is what Yajnavalka actually says: “This inhabited world, of a truth, is as broad as thirty-two days [i.e. days’ journeys] of the sun-god’s chariot. The earth, which is twice as wide, surrounds it on all sides. The ocean, which is twice as wide, surrounds the earth on all sides. Then there is an interspace as broad as the edge of a razor or the wing of a mosquito. Indra, taking the form of a bird, delivered them [i.e. the Pārikshitas] to Wind. Wind, placing them in him, led them where the performers of the rites were. Somewhat thus he [i.e. Sudhanvan] praised Wind. Therefore Wind alone is individuality (vyaṣṭi). Wind is totality (samaṣṭi). He who knows this overcomes a second death.”

Now, once again, the “by the book, literally” attitude of our friends comes to the fore. Sun traveling on a chariot is an expression. All that Yajnavalka is saying in relative terms is that the inhabited area of earth is roughly the distance traversed by sun in 32 days (roughly a month) in Hindu solar calendar. Then he says that the uninhabited area is twice as wide as the inhabited area of earth. Then he says that the oceans occupy twice the area that the uninhabited earth occupies & finally he uses the distant horizon as an exit point beyond which they head to, as a result of their deeds.

Had the likes of Yajnavalka believed that the horizon was a physical location, Hindu calendar that calculates solar months, sun’s transit across constellations and the corresponding entry / exit of seasons would not even have existed. So once again the overzealous effort to deride Upanishads falls flat. Parking aside the Vedic sacrifices, conceptually, what’s wrong with what Yajnavalka stated? And critics often say that the movement of Sun is unscientific but perhaps they have never heard of galactic or cosmic year based on the movement of the Sun in the milky way.

Brihadaranyak Upanishad 2/1/19 talks about 72,000 nerves but the human body has millions of nerves and hence it is unscientific.

Well, translations can only take people so far. The number 72,000 points to “Nadis” and not nerves or neurons. Nadis, in Ayurveda are channels or passages or ducts through which prana or active life force and apana or passive forces flow across the human body. Hita nadi, in Ayurveda is associated with heart and activity of the brain during the dreaming state of a jivatma. So without this basic understanding, self appointed champions of comparative religions seem to be crying from the roof top about Upanishads. Try verifying this with people that have recovered from conditions like fatigue syndromes, fibromyalgia etc, based on Ayurvedic treatment.

 

6. Upanishads promote casteism, prevent free-thinking and are divisive

Chandogya Upanishad 5/10/7: “Those whose conduct here on earth has been good will quickly attain some good birth—birth as a brahmin, birth as a kshatriya, or birth as a vaisya. But those whose conduct here has been evil will quickly attain some evil birth—birth as a dog, birth as a pig, or birth as a chandala.”

The confusion in the minds of those that are mounting criticisms is now becoming so obvious. They are linking the immutability of the Supreme Truth and the concept of the course of a soul based on reincarnation.

Let us address the charge on the so called birth based discrimination. The fifth chapter / tenth kanda of Chandogya Upanishad talks about those that do not attain salvation but rather those that by virtue of good deeds in a life end up returning to earth after exhausting their  accumulated credits in the other world. Based on the merits / de-merits of their deeds they end up in their next life in specific kinds of families. Those that died after leading a life filled with unpleasant conduct end up in situations that are proportional to their misdeeds. And even if someone were born amongst Chandals, he / she has another shot at salvation unlike in some cults that tread the “One and Done” belief system with God willfully deluding one set of people.

And Adi Shankaracharya’s life has the most contemporary chronicle of a Chandal intellectually standing up to this great Acharya and enabling the latter to make a paradigm shift by rendering the anecdotal poem “MANEESHAA PANCHAKAM.” This poem states that a Chandal with a clear perception of the Supreme Brahman becomes a teacher’s teacher. And the gist of the above poem not only trashes the claim that was made about the birth based caste system but also illuminates what the illusion is what the understanding of Brahman really is. Here we go…

 

I owe to the gist of the poem below to a friend of mine that helped me with this. Adi Shankaracharya proclaims in his poem that it is his firm conviction that he alone is his Guru, be he a Chandala or a Brahmin who:

1. Has realized that he is not the seen, but that he is the one consciousness that illumines all experiences during the waking, dream and deep sleep states, the one consciousness that is the sole witness of the entire play of the universe, the one consciousness which is the very life spark in all forms – from the creator down to the ant. (This verse elucidates the Mahavakya ‘Pragnaanam Brahma’ – Consciousness is Brahman).

2. In his direct experience of the Supreme, has understood that the entire Universe is merely a play of the Pure consciousness, projected by his ignorance, expressed in the three moods of his mind (sattwa, rajas, and tamas), while he himself is that Brahman. (This verse elucidates the Mahavakya ‘Aham Brahma Asmi’ – I am Brahman, the one who has awakened from his limited sense of ego and realized the Supreme).

3. Reflecting upon the fact that this world of change is permanently in a state of flux, quietens his mind devoid of all disturbing thoughts and constantly contemplates upon Brahman, has burnt up all his past  and future residual vasanas in the fire of pure consciousness, has offered  his body to live through and exhaust its present destiny. (This verse  elucidates the Mahavakya – ‘Tat Tvam Asi’ – That Thou Art).

4. With his mind made completely tranquil and meditates upon that which expresses itself as ‘I’, the subjective individuality in all creatures – plant, animal, human etc. That by whose light body, mind and senses are all enlivened to activity, even though by themselves they  are inert and insentient, that which illumines everything as sun from behind a bank of clouds.

5. Having thus given the gist of the entire Advaita Vedanta based on the four Mahavakyas Sri Sankara concludes by saying that during the moments of quietitude a Yogi’s mind gains that ocean of bliss, the Brahman, the reality.

 

7. Upanishads curb freedom of thought, womens’ rights and earning cattle / money by expounding philosophical knowledge was a good profession.

Our friends have used crafty techniques to make the two points seen above. Let us expose the cunningness here.  In the Vedic society, those that are Brahmins do not make a living other than by expounding the metaphysical knowledge, scriptural knowledge and by asking for alms.  The moment a so called Brahmin gets exposed as being bereft of knowledge, he ceases to make anything more as an earning till he raises his bar and proves it in an assembly with peers and / or other sages with higher knowledge.  And if a Brahmin misuses his knowledge, his friendship with other Brahmins ceases. It is in this context that sage Yajnavalka beats other sages / brahmins hands down.

And our friends that make so much noise about Gargi being asked by sage Yajnvalka to be quiet, apparently missed out the second round of questioning by Gargi in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 3/8/ 1 – 12 and finally Gargi appreciates Yajnavalka’s knowledge. And our friends also seem to have missed out on a round of questioning that sage Yajnavalka faced from Uddalaka in the same Upanishad 3/7/1 – 23. If Yajnavalaka was so intent on throttling the questioning spirit, he need not have answered so much.

Given we have already called the bluff of Upanishads shutting down the questioning spirit, the death of Vidagdha Shakalya is to be looked at the frame of the stature of Shakalya, a theologian, asking unrestrained questions on a topic he ought to be knowledgeable about and his complete ignorance of the atman being none other than a divided aspect of the impersonal Brahman. But the irony is that this man, payed a price by his life to enable the articulation of the reduction of the multiplicity of deities to just the ONE reality.

Vidaghdha Shakalya, being the sage he was, also did not fully explain to Janaka during instructing the king about the resting place of the Supreme Brahman. Shakalya simply said that the heart is Brahman and left it at that. Yajnavalka , in his discussion with Janaka corrects this error by explaining the true permeating nature of the Supreme Brahman. This is a gross error that a teacher or a scholar cannot commit (sharing half baked knowledge). And in the same drift of things, when King Janaka, after hearing Yajnavalka offers him a reward, he refuses it saying that he (Yajnavalka) was yet to fully instruct Janaka on Brahman and continues the discourse. Our friends seem to have missed these portions of the Upanishad by design.

Anybody that reads the Yajnavalka section of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad completely, will be at ease to understand the way the questioning spirit is expounded. Conditioned minds have a hard time understanding this.

I am moving ahead to establish the fact that in the Vedic society, a prostitute’s son can become a Vedic scholar. In the same Upanishad there occurs the name Satyakarma Jabala, few times. Satyakarma was the son a prostitute named Jabala. When he wishes to go to a gurukul to learn Vedas, he asks his Mother as to what would his gotra be, given that identifies the lineage. Jabala gives an honest response and says that she does not know his gotra. But she asks him to call himself as Satyakarma Jabala. When Satyakrma goes to sage Haridrumata, he confesses his Mother’s profession and also the fact that he knows not his Father’s name. The sage gladly admits him to the Gurukul (based on Satyakarma’s honesty) and Satyakarma, later becomes a Vedic Guru himself. Now, how long are people going to keep claiming that Upanishads are casteist?

And our friends’ hearts seem to bleed for women’s rights. Gargi is a lady and Rig Veda samhita has a dozen women sages. And hence it is so obvious that women were never prevented from indulging in the quest for Supreme Knowledge. So this argument falls flat too.

And here is the icing on the cake, where, complete misunderstanding of the Upanishadic thought goes, by our friends. Again, the following instance and the literal articulation of a verse in the Kaushitaki Upanishad, nails the desperation of our friends.

Kaushitaki Upanishad 3/1: This verse walks us through Pratardana, son of the king of Kashi, reaching Indra’s abode.  But this prince, apparently has no knowledge of what is to be known about Brahman. And Indra sets about explaining that the knowledge of self / Atman is above all else including boons. When Indra says this: “He who knows me thus, by no deed of his is his life harmed, not by the murder of his mother, not by the murder of his father, not by theft, not by the killing of a Brahman. If he is going to commit a sin, the bloom does not depart from his face”

It is important to that this is what it means – Whoever has attained the knowledge of the Atman and his unity with it, and thereby has been delivered from the illusion of individual existence into the understanding of the infinite truth, his good and evil deeds come to zilch. They are no longer his deeds, simply because he is no longer an individual. And having attained this communion, he ceases to perform any deeds or anticipate any returns from the deeds.

So there we have it. From end to end, the attempted criticism is nothing but a flagrant effort to smear the Upanishads with negativity and deride the same, under the garb of self-appointed interfaith analysis.

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Comments

  1. NaRuTo says

    Powerful is the word that comes to mind..strong response. Problem is, the people who alleges such criticism go by word to word translation and donot think about the allegorical/metaphysical nature of the scriptures that makes Hinduism beautiful as compared to the drab,monotonous,worship-me-only prose of their religions.

    • Vedas Contain Apara and Para Vidya says

      Vedas Contain Apara and Para Vidya
      Vedas contain both Apara and Para vidya. It is fact known well by present and ancient rishis that God cannot be realized without Vedas. If one is unknown in any city then he himself will give his identification and only then will the others know him. In the beginning of earth no guru was there as all had left their bodies in previous universe. Then who would give the knowledge of matters and God at that time except God Himself who never dies. That is why God gives knowledge of Vedas in beginning of creation, which is authentic and acceptable by all. So we should never go against the God and Vedas. Study of four Vedas is called “Apara Vidya”. It is a scientific knowledge.

      Manusmriti in its shloka 1/23 also states that in the beginning of universe the knowledge of four Vedas emanates from God and is originated in the heart of four rishis. So God is the first guru of the four ancient rishis, says Yog shastra sutra 1/26 too. From four rishis an aspirant named Brahma studied the same. Vedas state that he who has got the knowledge of four Vedas from a learned acharya and is alive should be called “Brahma”. So, the said study of four Vedas is called Apara Vidya which is essential to realize God. From Para Vidya God is realized. In Shanti Parv of Mahabharta, Bheeshma tells to Yudhishthir that he who gets perfection in Apara Vidya by studying four Vedas from an acharya, becomes able to know “Akshar-Braham” i.e., the stage of realization of God. Para Vidya is actual practice of the teaching of Vedas in life. i.e., one will have to observe all the teachings of Vedas in life. For-example -Vedas tell to do Yajyen, to do name-jaap of God which is mentioned in Vedas, to do hard practice of ashtang yoga philosophy etc. All the above statements are according to Vedas which emanate direct from God and are unchangeable. So both Para and Apara, are required to be observed in life and not one.

      • Vedas Contain Apara and Para Vidya says

        Relevance of Apara Vidya

        At present learned acharya of Vedas chants Ved mantras and gives its explanation and the followers listen to it. This is eternal tradition. On the other hand, present Guru also speaks before his disciples to teach them. From where does the present Guru teach? Definitely from Geeta, Ramayana, shastras, Upnishads and other holy books. He has also to remember number of stories, and then he speaks. I mean to say both acharya and Guru will have to study first then they are able to preach further, either on Vedas or as per Vedas or against the Vedas. It means apara knowledge i.e., knowledge by studying books or by listening from acharya/Guru is necessary.

        Everyone says that God is everywhere. Think from where an acharya or Guru is telling such facts. Definitely he has studied or listened from his Guru. So the study of books or listening from learned acharya is Apara Vidya which is necessary.

        Para knowledge is attained from present acharya/Guru but see Para knowledge is Akshar knowledge of Vedas and present acharya/Guru should know the apara knowledge first and then the present acharya/Guru will observe the teachings of Apara knowledge in life after that he will be able to experience the Para Vidya i.e., Akshar Gyan or knowledge of God.

        Moreover in Vedas, the best name of God is OM. However, God has got unlimited names according to His unlimited divine qualities. For-example – Rigveda mantra 1/164/46 states –

        INDRAM MITRAM VARUNNAMAGNIMAAHURATHO DIVYAH SA SUPARNNO GARUTMAAN.
        EKAM SADVIPRA BAHUDHA VADANTYAGNIM YAMAM MATRISHVAANMAAHUHU.
        i.e., some of the names of God in this mantra are Indra, Mitra, Varunn, Agni, Matrishva etc. God is the first Guru of four rishis and thereafter the Rishis after getting the knowledge from four rishis have been traditionally giving us Para and Apara knowledge of Vedas till date. It will continue forever i.e., after the destruction of this universe too.

        So present Guru, if he is learned, always gives the name from Vedas please and he always…

        • Vedas Contain Apara and Para Vidya says

          So present Guru, if he is learned, always gives the name from Vedas please and he always respects the Vedas, being the knowledge direct from Almighty, omnipresent, omniscient, adorable God. How can a learned, present Guru insult the God?

          As regards name of God, it may also be kept in mind that when we open the first page of any Ved mantra of samhita (book), it starts from the holy name of God. So we start Apara Vidya first by chanting the holy name of God, so how can the study of Vedas go in vain? For-example- Rigveda came first on the earth. Its first mantra starts from “AGNI MEEDAY” here the meaning of agni is omnipresent God. Every mantra actually starts from OM which is the best name of God.

          So is there any person on the earth who does not agree that God is omnipresent? Yajurveda mantra starts “OM EESHAY TVORJEY……….”, OM is the name of God. Eeshay means food- grains and energy and so we are under the mercy of Almighty God to get food-grains and energy etc. Do all people of universe not require food-grains and energy

          And don’t they ask the same from God. If they do not know Vedas then from where did such type of prayer come for the first time in the world? Definitely from God’s Vedas!

          So why do we speak against Vedas? It is due to the reason that we do not study Vedas. Guru Nanak Dev Sahib studied Vedas and has beautifully written in Shri Guru Granth Sahib……” VED KATEV KAHO MAT JHOOTHE, JHOOTHA SO JO NA VICHARE”

          MEANING- Vedas are not false. On the contrary, he is false who does not study the Vedas.

          Third veda i.e., Samveda came on earth. It’s first mantra is “OM AGNA AA YAHI”. OM is the name of God and Agni i.e., Agni is also the name of God.

          Fourth Veda is Atharvaveda and its first mantra is “OM YE TRISHAPTAHA” and in this mantra there is a word, “VACHASPATI” and its meaning is God, who is most knowledgeable. So when we chant Vedas we automatically begin with holy name of God.

          In the last chapter of Yajurveda, God states: “OM KRITO SMAR”, i.e., Oh man or woman! While…

          • Vedas Contain Apara and Para Vidya says

            In the last chapter of Yajurveda, God states: “OM KRITO SMAR”, i.e., Oh man or woman! While performing all moral duties, you do the jaap of OM. Nowadays all the Gurus tell to do name jaap of God. But from where did they get the knowledge to tell the disciple to do name-jaap of God? Definitely from book or from their Guru. But from where did their Guru get it? Definitely from his Guru. So this process goes up to the time of beginning of creation where only one Almighty God was Guru of the four Rishis. So we must accept the Guru of ancient four Rishis i.e., Almighty God and His four Vedas which is learnt from present learned acharya who knows four Vedas. Otherwise traditional knowledge of Vedas which starts always from beginning of earth, will be hidden and false prophets will become able to spread the illusion. For-example – Kapil Muni in his Samkhya Shastra sutra 3/81 states – if the present Gurus will not be getting knowledge of Vedas-Apara and Para both, then new tradition of blind faith will start.

            Study of Vedas never goes in vain, please. Shastras state, “SHRUTAM TAPAH”, i.e., mere listening of Vedas is the great (tap) austerity of aspirant.
            http://vedmandir.com/content/questions-answers-october-24-2011

  2. KalBhairav says

    Great article yet again.

    @Naruto: I 2nd your POV. The great Mimamsa philosopher Kumarila had similar thoughts. Mimamsa darshana is one of the most scrupulous Darshanas wedded to the Vedas. Kumarila used to hold in many of his commentaries on the Mimamsasutras that correct interpretation of the sutras can only be obtained by analyzing a sutra fully. By fully he meant that (a)the sutra needs to be understood in its entirety without breaking down it into unnecessary parts, (b)the correct interpretation of the sutra could be obtained only after analyzing which section in which the sutra appears, more specifically, what is the tenor of the previous few sutras, what is the import of the succeeding sutras, etc.(c)By extension, the Vedas themselves need to be understood only after fully grasping their purport in their entirety.

    Nitpicking here and there has become the norm these days…probably may have to do with the short attention span amongst the kids these days.

  3. kalyan says

    Dear all,

    I am trying to understand the gist of vedas, upanishads and basically the vedic religion. I was reading Srimad Ramayana by Sri Valmiki maharshi. As Srimad Ramayana is also called as ‘Vedopabrahmana’, I believe every person who believes in Vedic religion should agree with what is said in Srimad Ramayana by Sri Valmiki maharshi. There are some contexts which I could not understand. In Kishkindha kanda from sarga-40-43, Sugreeva describes the places that come in each direction. Are they geographically correct?
    Later in Uttarakanda, SriRama kills Shambuka who belongs to a nimna jati or to a lower caste. How far it can be supported?
    I sincerely request you to help me get my doubts cleared and strengthen my belief in Vedic religion.
    Thanks,
    Kalyan Chakravarthy…

    • Truth Seeker says

      @kalyan
      _________Ramayana is also called as ‘Vedopabrahmana’_____________
      Brother, can you give me reference of this Shaloka? I need to show it to a Ramayan Preacher who was talking ill of Veda.

    • says

      Shambuka and Sri Ram

      You should read this –

      Sri Ram Part – II
      In my previous blog I have shown two allegations on Sri Ram, and discussed on the truth of these two allegations. Last night a man from Pakistan raised two more questions on Sri Ram. Interestingly these two allegations had been shown by B. R. Ambedkar too. He has shown the story of Bali and Shambuka.

      First lets understand his stand.

      1. Bali was killed by Ram, when he was unarmed. Being Maryada Purushatam, he should not have done this. Again he killed him when he was engaged in a fight with some one else. The reason for killing Bali was just to get help of Sugriva to conquer Lanka. This is a coward.

      2. A brahman boy died at a very early age. Ram find the reason that Shambuka a shudra was reciting Vedas. As per Veda, a shudra can not read it. Hence he killed Shambuka, and the brahman kid came alive.

      These two questions have been answered by me many a times, I will be repeating the same words. But I think this time the answer should be very specific.

      1. Regarding Bali :

      a) Bali was not unarmed : Bali was very powerfull. His hands were his arms. It is said that he was able to absorve all the powers of arms and weapons of the enemies who come before him. Hence, in practical view he was not unarmed. Hence Sri Ram did not kill some one when he was unarmed.

      b)Bali was not killed when he was engaged in fight with some one else : In Ramayan, it is very clearly written that, Ram waited till Sugriva is grounded by Bali. Hence in practical view, the fight was over, hence this allegation is base less too.

      c) Reason of Killing Bali: Ram went to Sugriva for help. He came to know that Bali had forcefully taken wife of Sugriva, and he was engaged in disturbing the kingdom in many ways. So it was for the betterment of the kingdom to kill Bali. And the method of killing Bali was a well planned war. So nothing wrong in it. Sri Ram saved a kingdom.

      2. Regarding Shambuka

      a) A brahmin boy died and came alive : Practically if we…

      • says

        2. Regarding Shambuka

        a) A brahmin boy died and came alive : Practically if we think, this is an impossible thing happened. Veda says there is no miracle, because God and his laws are unchangeable. What ever happens at a particular situation, will always happen in similar situation when eve it occurs. So, according to Veda, this is impossible too. In such times, we have to understand the hidden message of the story. The word used is a brahmachary, means a student of Vedas died. This can be interpreted as a social problem of that time that, people were not interested in studies, its the process of education amongst the children. Not a particular human being.

        b) Reason Shambuk was engaged in reciting Vedas : Again this statement is an impossible one. Shudra means some one who has never got education. Every one is born a Shudra, and those who acquire knowledge of Vedas become Brahmin (if they practice teaching), Khatriya (if they join armed forces) or Vaishya (if they engage in business). So some one who never learned Vedas, who don’t know how to read and write can not read any text. Hence this statement is to be again analyzed to know the hidden message in it. This incidence is described in two to three ways in different Ramayans, in some language it is said, he was practicing Vedas like a brahman, in some language it is said, he was reading vedas, in some language it is said that he was doing tapasya. What ever it may be, one thing is clear a shudra was engaged in interpretation of Vedas. Now some one who does not have any knowledge of Vedas was saying the essence of Vedas. Think logically, if some one who does not have MBBS degree will practice medicines, if some one who does not have LLB degree will interpret Law, some one without basic knowledge will become teacher, then what will happen to the society ? What should the ruler do in this situation ?
        When Sri Ram killed Shambuk (means when he closed such practices), the brahman child (means the proper education) came alive.

        Sri Ram was right for…

        • prasad says

          Namste,

          Indian Itihasas (epics) give events in the life of individuals, family and society. They give ‘if something is done in such and such ways what will happen ‘. The analyses of adopting the messages from these events should be done by the reader and take whatever messages are relevant in individual/ family /social / national life. In short read the events and take the messages. Why such events are written? The answer is we do not have enough time in our life to experience and experiment all the events, find out the good and bad and then take the selected good only. So the alternative method is to analyze the good and bad events in the life of ideal persons/ family / society and then take the good from there. That is what is done in the two itihasas Valmiki Ramayana and Vyasa Bharata.

          Prasad

      • vijay says

        I will reply this answer according to my opinion. As we know prithiviraj chauhan forgive muhmmad gauri 16 time but we allknow that prithviraj did mistakes many time. before at the time of Ram and Krishna war was also fight with some principal in common to both sides. But this fight was only done with dharmik people. But not with undharmik. According to veda doing anything wrong with any other person wife was very bad. Because it was principal for those people that no body will see with wrong eyes to some other person wife.And if some people who know that this is against the principle and even doing it. That time it was well understood princpal to kill the enamy by any way. Because enamy is not going with dharmik principal. And is true now a days also if any person take your wife and then you go to him first request him to leave your wife, if he do not agree then tell him to fight. But not those time and not even for such reason just kill the person who forcefully kipped any body wife.

  4. Indian Agnostic says

    A thorough rebuttal indeed..and doesn’t stop there ..the nectar and spirit of Sat-Chit-Ananda flows throughout the article ..Congratulations @Apolloreach !

    where-from does one attain sat if not raja-yoga, where-from does one attain chit if not gyana, where-from does one attain Ananada if not bhakti !….and is any of this possible withoput Karma? No!

    be it a hindu, a vedantin or a Vedic ..Sat-Chit-Ananada ..are not three words for us ..its one word ..essentially implying that no matter what path we choose, it involves the practice of the other three as well

    • Truth Seeker says

      @Indian Agnostic
      Namaste Brother,
      ___________where-from does one attain sat if not raja-yoga________
      What is this Raja-Yoga?Is it Asthang Yog?
      _______where-from does one attain sat if not raja-yoga, where-from does one attain chit if not gyana____________
      Please clarify this in detail.

      • says

        Namaste Brother Truth Seeker

        you are right , it’s Ashtang Yog.

        now regarding *Sat* ..what is it? ..it is the real and permanent ( as opposed to *asat* which is unreal and impermanent)
        Following ashtang yog, the various vrittis (modifications ) of our mind are controlled/stilled(nirodha)..and thus we are able to see the *real* clearly and are not effected by *asad*
        so in short – when we say asato ma sad gamaya – the method of doing that is asthang yog

        and now lets talk about Chit – it’s knowledge/Consciousness absolute – which can only be attained through gyana
        in short when we say – tamso ma jyotir gamaya – the method is jnana

        hope that helps :)

  5. Basant says

    DEAR AGNIVEER JI, YOU ARE MAGICIAN. You are the most learned person in the world. You are kind. You know the answer of everything. You can solve every problem. Jo kaam doctor 6 mahine me bhi nahi kar paya vo kaam aapne ek jhatke mein kar diya. Meri buddhi laut aai. Vinay bhi aa gaya. Thank you so much !

  6. Rama says

    One of the best sites to learn about our religion. Thank you Sir.
    I do have certain beliefs which are contradictory to the views held by the Agniveer.
    I apologize up front as my knowledge of Hinduisim, at the best, can be described as minimal. What ever I have learnt so far is from my upbringing , books that I have read, specifically by Swami Daynada Saraswathi Ji
    I believe in Vedas. They are the foundation of Hinduism.
    I believe In Shri Rama, Shri Krishna and other Hindu Gods. To me, they all represent Paramathma. I do not believe that Shri Rama and Shri Krishna were just enlightened souls. ( by the way, I would appreciate if Agniveer stop using the Abhramic term ” soul”. It is not synonymous with Athma.) To me , Shri Rama and Shri Krishna are Avathars of Paramathma. Ithikasas are the structure standing on the foundation of Vedas. Take away the structures and you will have only an unseen foundation.
    I believe that Bhagavat Gita was revealed to humanity in the same way Vedas were revealed. Nothing more and nothing less.
    I wake up and end each day uttering the names of my Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. I sincerely pray to them to give me a mindset that will constantly focus only on them and nothing else.
    Jai Shri Rama, Jai Shri Krishna

  7. prasad says

    Can you please say the meaning of these slokas which christians claim that these slokas mention christ.
    “Hiranyagarbha: samavarthaagre
    Bhuuthasya jaatha: pathireka aaseeth
    Sadaadhaara Prudhwivim dyaamuthemam
    Kasmai devaaya havisha vidhemam”
    (Rig Veda X: 121:1)

    “Thasmaad virraada jaayatha
    viraajo adhi purusha:
    Sajaatho athyarichyatha
    Paschaad bhoomim adho pura:”
    (Rig Veda X:90:5)

    “Tham yajnam barhishi proukshan
    Purusham jaathamagratha
    Thena deva ayajantha
    Sadhya rushayaschaye”
    ‘Purushasookta’
    (Rig Veda X:90:7)

  8. prasad says

    Can you please say the meaning of these slokas which christians claim that these slokas mention christ.
    “Purusha evedam sarvam
    Yadbhutham yacha bhavyam
    Uthaamruthathwasya esaana
    Ya daannenathirohathi”
    (Rig Veda X:90:2)

    “Thamevam Vidwanamruthaiha bhavathy
    Nanya pandha ayanaya vidyathe”
    (Rig Veda X:90:16. Repeated Yajur Veda XXXI:18)

    Kathopanishad
    “ Naiva vaacha na manasaa
    Praapthum shakyo na chakshusha
    Astheethi bruvathonyyathra
    Kadam thadupalabhyathe ”
    (Katham 6:12)

    “Sa eekshatheeme nu loka
    Lokaa Paalaanusruja ithi
    Sodbhaaya eva purusham
    Samudruthya moorchayaayt”
    (Ithareyopanishad 1. 1:3)

    Yagnovy Bhuvanasya Nabhi.
    Sarvapapa Pariharo Rakthaprokshanamavasyam. Thadraktham Paramathmeva Punyadana Baliyagam
    Prajapathirdevebhyam Athmanam Yagnam Kruthva Prayaschittaha.
    Prajapathiryagnaha.
    Yagnovaa Avathi Thasya Chaya Kriyathe.
    Nakarmana Manushtanairna Danasthapasavya Kaivalyam Labhathe Marthyah.
    Svetasvataropanishad 3:8

    Nanyah pantha vidyate-ayanaya
    No other way is known for eternal life
    Yajurved 31:18

  9. Pagan Power says

    Prasad: Only those that are unsure of their theological moorings would try to hunt for prophecies in scriptures that the very same idiots claim to talk about a fake God. So if Christians claim that Hindu scriptures talk about christ then they cannot claim that our religion is fake.

  10. prasad says

    Dear all,
    I come to know the meaning of the sloka is a follows:-
    “Hiranyagarbha: samavarthaagre
    Bhuuthasya jaatha: pathireka aaseeth
    Sadaadhaara Prudhwivim dyaamuthemam
    Kasmai devaaya havisha vidhemam”
    (Rig Veda X: 121:1)
    This is a sloka of (Rig Veda 10: 121:1) & is given in Yajur Veda (13.4) and its real meaning is as follows:-
    “God, O men existed in the beginning of the Creation. He is the Creator, Support and Sustainer of the sun and other luminous worlds; He was the Lord of the past Creation. He is the Lord of the present. He will be the Lord of the unborn universe. He created the whole world, and he sustains it. He is Eternal Bliss. May ye all praise and adore Him as we do.”

    What Christian mentioned for that is as follows:-
    In the beginning, God and his supreme spirit alone existed. From the supreme Spirit of God proceeded Hiranya Garbha, alias Prajapathy, the first born of God in the form of light.
    As soon as he was born, he became the savior of all the worlds.

    Can anybody please explain the other slokas too.

    • KalBhairav says

      @prasad:

      Hiranyagarbha refers to the “cosmic egg” and it is referenced in some Upanishads. [dont know them off hand and I am writing this from work :-)]

      I prefer interpreting the verses related to cosmogony in the Vedas in light of the Brahmasutras. The philosophy of Vedanta is laid out in those. So, providing a one-off explanation is not going to shoo away the Xian vultures. Any half educated idiot with a sinister intention can twist the verse of the Vedas here and there to suit his purpose.

      In short, when the Vedas talk of neither being nor non being, etc., all these refer to atleast 3 ontological entities – Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas. Brahman alone couldnt be because keep in mind that according to Hindu philosophy Jivas [along with residual Karma] and Prakriti have been eternally existing in a dependent status to Brahman. [This is Dvaita Philosophy.] So, “before” creation, in Hinduism, it was not just God that was present. It was also Prakriti and Jivas. The latter two were present in “subtle” form without name and form. What causes this equilibrium to be disturbed leading to another round of creation is the past Karma of Jivas.

      While the Xian menace is a threat in India, it is something that will go away once people are educated. In much of the educated industrialized world, Xity loses out miserably to Hinduism and agnosticism if not downright atheism.

  11. Apolloreach says

    @ Prasad, the verses you have quoted form part of the cosmogony of Rig Veda. They are not to be seen in isolcation but they ought to be seen in conjunction with Nasadiya Sukta. The verses are unique to Rig Veda, as, the verses here reflect the reality experienced by the first set of seers that try to understand who God is and who should they worship, instead of the reverse found in Abrahamic discourses, where, a named God expects people to worship him.The Sanskrit word is “KASMAI” implies “TO WHOM.” The verses below show the usage of a pronoun, to address God, whose name is yet to be known. At the end of the verses, the name of the Reality is revealed as Prajapati.
    1. In the beginning arose the Golden Embryo: He was, as soon as born, the Lord of Being, Sustainer of the Earth and of this Heaven. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    This verse talks about the golden embryo (hiranyagarbha that figuratively houses God), that conceived and manifested this Universe in the primeval waters.
    2. He who bestows life-force and hardy vigor, Whose ordinances even the Gods obey, Whose shadow is immortal life–and death–What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    This verse talks about the supremacy of the yet to be named God (other Gods in English merely points to all the other subordinate facets / forces that are manifested in this Universe) and into whom both life and death dissolve.
    3. Who by his grandeur has emerged sole sovereign Of every living thing that breathes and slumbers,He who is Lord of man and four-legged creatures What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    This verse establishes the sovereignty of God over all living beings.
    4. To him of right belong, by his own power, The snow-clad mountains, the world-stream, and the sea.His arms are the four quarters of the sky. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    This verse shows the right that God exercises over the earth and ocean and sky.
    5. Who held secure the mighty Heavens and Earth, Who established light and sky’s vast vault above,Who measured out the ether in mid-spheres– What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    This verse among other things shows the fact that light bwas bestowed upon this Universe by this God.
    6. Toward him, trembling, the embattled forces, Riveted by his glory, direct their gaze. Through him the risen sun sheds forth its light. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    The embattled forces (the word kran dasi) figuratively means heaven and earth that, in a poetic way tremble and head towards God.
    7. When came the mighty Waters, bringing with them The universal Germ, whence sprang the Fire, Thence leapt the God’s One Spirit into being. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    8. This One who in his might surveyed the Waters Pregnant with vital forces, producing sacrifice,He is the God of Gods and none beside him. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    Look at this verse. People that keep taking pride in not associating partners to God, need to know that the concept existed eons before it was taught in 7th century Arabia.
    9. O Father of the Earth, by fixed laws ruling, O Father of the Heavens, pray protect us,O Father of the great and shining Waters! What God shall we adore with our oblation?
    10. O Lord of Creatures (Prajapati), Father of all beings, You alone pervade all that has come to birth. Grant us our heart’s desire for which we pray. May we become the lords of many treasures!
    The key take away from the above verses is how this Universe itself is a personification of God. It is important to note that these hymns (found above) are a favorite punching bag of those involved in human harvests. They use these hymns to claim that our forefathers never received any guidance, as; they seem not to know the God to whom oblations need to be offered. But the truth is the last hymn calls out the Lord to whom the Vedic seers adore their oblations as Prajapati.

  12. Biju says

    First of all, you need to acknowledge that the Bible is a Holy book and it should be treated with reverence. Every word in the Bible is God breathed words, given through the Holy Spirit to the men of God those days, to write it down so that we could study this and pass it on to our children. One third of the Bible are prophecies, most of them fulfilled in the last thousands of years and a few are still left to be fulfilled, which without doubt, will fulfill in the coming few years which will then mark the end of this age. No other religious books contain these many detailed prophecies which were fulfilled with absolute perfection. In the Bible, in the Book of Mark 13: 31, Jesus speaks: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. The Bible is tomorrows Newspaper today it is so up to date with all the world events already prophesied thousands of years ago.
    Any thinking person will ask for proofs that Bible is dictated by God to His servants those days. Well, these days, if we get a memo or an e-mail, we first look for the writers name or the sender, which can be clearly seen on the letter, as the person who has sent it or has signed it and any letters without a senders name or a signature is not given any value to it. When we get currency notes, especially a large denomination, we carefully look for the water mark or the few authentic markings on it, just to ensure the currency is a genuine piece of note. Likewise we have many features in the Bible for us to know that this is indeed authored by God because His signature is all over the book. I will explain how to find the signatures.
    Another natural thinking is that while the Bible was transiting through the thousands of years and while it was being copied and replicated, naturally a lot of original words may have fallen off and new words have crawled in, by which the whole sentences may have changed with a whole new meaning which is again a very natural thinking. The Bible, which consists of 66 books, written by almost 40 different people of God, of which the oldest book was written some 4-5,000 years ago to the last book written some 2,000 years ago. These books, spread across thousands of miles, were all brought together through a divine intervention and were compiled into one book through Gods appointed people in the olden days and were handled with great reverence and fear. I do not want to go into details on the way the books were copied, which is an extremely lengthy process, much more severe than the modern day quality inspection job.

  13. Biju says

    God and His Angels are in a much higher dimensional environment and we are unable to see God. In the Bible we read as follows in Exodus 33: 18-23: Moses said, “Please show me your glory.” And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The LORD.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” And the LORD said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen.”
    Humans are unable to see God in His Glory and know His dimensions. It is similar to the imaginary two-dimensional flat man trying to contact us, who are in a higher dimension. So God wanted to send His Love to his creation, which is mankind, by sending His only son Jesus so that we can know God better and also redeem us from our sins. Before we go further, what exactly is sin and what is it to do with mankind In a Biblical point of view, God has given man, a set of commandments, laws and rules to abide with. We are expected by God to live by those rules and regulations, like we are living in a society, obeying the rules of that particular country. We are Gods children and we are expected to live, obeying Gods laws. If we break the commandments, we are sinners. Jesus was born as an infant child to Mary and He grew up to fulfill His duty on this earth within a short period of time.
    The process in which Jesus came to this earth as a little baby and the way He died and resurrected and ascended to Heaven is something science cannot explain, since it is way too unfathomable for modern science to give a proper explanation and lets not dwell on this subject which is far greater than our minds can conceive. Even Jesus told almost the same way to his disciples when he was similarly questioned by his disciples. The most important fact what we now need to understand is that Jesus Christ was on this earth to die for our sins so that we will be saved from our sins by His Grace. As Christians, we need to accept that so that we will be redeemed by His death and resurrection. Jesus Christ taught us to love our enemies which personally, I confess, I still cannot rise up to that level, but thats what Christ expects from each one of us. Christ hates sin, but loves the sinners and thats the reason for Him to come to this world and died in our place for our sins, so that our souls will continue to live.
    My friends, if we follow the Bible and the prophecies about what is going to happen in this world in the coming days and probably years, we need to be prepared for His return so that if we do not die before His coming, to be ready and to be raptured to join Him and His Angels in Heaven. I would like to wrap this up with the following verses from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which reads as follows: But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

  14. Chessus says

    @Biju

    Nope buddy, no one here is interested in your fairy tales. Perhaps, you should come back to your ancestors religion. Only Rationalism can save one, not your folk Jesus.

    On a lighter note…

    Rapture joke provokes heart attack
    AUSTIN — Herbert Washington, whom co-workers at Significant Plastics Inc. say was unduly concerned with the rapture and the second coming of Christ, suffered a serious heart attack when co-workers pretended they’d been caught away without him.

    Last Tuesday, they lay work outfits on their chairs and hid in a supply room, and when Herbert came back from the restroom, he thought the rapture had occurred. The janitor, an outspoken Muslim, pretended to have witnessed everyone disappear and ran around the office feigning panic. Herbert fell to the ground clutching his heart and screaming, “I knew you’d forget me, Jesus! What did I do wrong?” He was taken to a local hospital. The employees emerged, sobered, from the supply room and gathered up their extra clothes.

    “We didn’t mean to scare him to death,” said one woman. “He’s just always talking about it, so today we decided to turn the tables on him.”

    Washington underwent bypass surgery and is recovering well and “digging into the Bible like never before,” says his wife.

    • Biju says

      The Dead Sea Scrolls authenticates that at least for the last 2,000 years, there were absolutely no change in any words or sentences when comparing the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Modern printed versions of the Hebrew and Greek Bible, as they were the original texts of the Bible, with a small portion of Aramaic. There are plenty of videos on the internet on the Dead Sea Scrolls and their findings – you can watch a small documentary on the Dead Sea Scrolls by following the below URL:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQW5ZGiLyI&feature=related

    • Biju says

      The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew while the New Testament was originally written in Greek. Each of the letters in the Bible are kept at the right place and no letter can be replaced by another. This is a compilation of words, even the highly advanced Cray or the K-Computers cannot compile the way it is done in these books. In the Bible, the Book of Matthew 5: 18 says: For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. We may wonder why is it so important that not even a dot or a comma should be changed or removed from the Bible I have a lot of explanation to do, but just to summarize, there are codes embedded in the Bible, there is more to read in the Bible than the verses which are there in print. These are known as the Bible Codes designed in the form of Equi-distant Lettering system or ELS. To cut short my explanation, you may watch the following documentary series one of the hundreds – on the Internet by clicking on the following URL:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQ3IkqyO3Y&feature=related

  15. Biju says

    Also, in the series of letters, I came across some doubts raised on the birth of Jesus and also his life on earth as the Son of God. Let me briefly tell you in the light of Science. We, the earthlings are on this earth in a four-dimensional world where we have a three dimensional body, entrapped in a fourth dimension called time. So we move forward with time, at the speed of time. This means, we cannot slowdown from that speed, nor go faster than the speed of time, which God has set for us as long as we are in our body. God lives in a dimension where He lives outside of time. For God, in that state, there is no past, present or future since He is not bound by time and thats the reason He is reachable by us any time as His presence envelopes us all the time. Once our life on this earth is over and we die, our soul breaks loose from this four dimensional world to a much more multi-dimensional environment, the Heaven. Scientists are not sure how many dimensions exactly exits in the universe or even beyond the universe, but theoretically, they argue that there are about thirteen dimensions.

  16. Biju says

    @Chessus
    Understand the fact and then question . Believe or not believe it is your CHOICE. But one day all tongue will say Jesus Christ is the Lord and all the knees shall bow. Bible is true and the whole universe can change, but the words will not change.

    • Chessus says

      @Biju
      “Believe or not believe it is your CHOICE.”
      Brother, its doesn’t matter what you believe but reality is Christianity is a Joke.

      You can do 1000 times better. Go back to your roots.

  17. says

    Some years back, I felt the same, and became Christian. Then I realised, its nothing but a shit. A book that says God makes mistake, can never be truth. God is perfect, he can never make mistake. If you really believe God can make mistake, you are marching towards ignorance.

  18. Biju says

    @ Akhila Pandi,
    Bible: The Holy Book says” God speaks , Spirit commands, Spirit prompt, the God who created this Universe etc. and Jesus Christ said: I am the Truth, Way and Life and He is the ONLY one man rose from the death and Still Living and He will come back soon to fetch people who believe in Him and He will establish His righteous Kingdom in this World itself. 97% of all Bible prophecy has already fulfilled and the rest is going to happen without fail. Bible says” All the world may move away, but the Word of God will never Change”. Pray to Living God to reveal the TRUTH and He will definitely enlighten you with His Truth. God has no name and nobody has seen HIM In HIS Fullness except His Own Son who revealed the FATHER to us. Through Jesus Christ, Christians became the children of God ( not servant) and hence we are the legal HEIRS of our Fathers property – HEAVEN. That is why we pray” Our Father who arts in Heaven”. Think of it what great previlage. This previlage God has opened through ALL who believes in Jesus Christ. That is the GOOD NEWS. True Christianity is not a religion( not that you see in this world around you) it is a way to our FATHER(GOD).

  19. Biju says

    @ Akhila Pandi
    Some facts on Bible
    Bible speaks about human life before Christ and after Christ (BC & AD) In Old testament it only speaks how evil defeated many kings their kingdom shredded down, whereas New Testament speaks about Gods love and forgiveness and the call for repentance from sin and accept Gods words; also speaks about the revelation for end of days now we are in 6 generation and the last will be antichrist rule “people cannot purchase/sell any things without the seal of ungodly women…. In other words this is already started in European union which has a women sitting on a animal and this is the first of its kind a women photo is displayed in currency after the Queen.

    Bible History is carefully captured and it speaks about the very existence of earth till ends of earth too, it speaks true facts of human existence kings and rulers, Noha’s Arc, Egyptian rule, roman rule and Israelites who moved from Egypt to Canaan, Red sea split into two parts.. Which cannot be denied and so on…

    A survey in discovery channel took DNA from millions of people from difference parts of the world and confirmed those DNA’s originated from one parents which is located in South Africa and that parent may be considered as Adam and Eve and yet Eden garden is still in this world which is located in South Africa.

  20. Rama says

    @Biju
    Here is a society which wants to restore Old Testament.
    All from King James Bible and nothing else. Please do not come out with statements that they have taken it out of context, misquoted,etc.
    I urge everyone to read the article in this site. Fantastic!!!!!It shows Christianity for what it is
    http://www.heterodoxy.com/societyofchristians/

  21. Biju says

    @ Rama,
    The Bible, which consists of 66 books, written by almost 40 different people of God, of which the oldest book was written some 4000 – 5,000 years ago to the last book written some 2,000 years ago. Bible is much older than vedas.Try to believe and then question.

    • hinduagnostic says

      in your lies the oldest bible including torah found only dates to 200 bc but its believed to have been written in 900 bc let me tell you something jesus was no body but made into a god jseus was a jew who believed in god but was going against the roman empire since they thought he was becoming a threat they crucified him then the christian made a contradicting story about his resurrection you should learn how jesus learnt so much from buddhist monesteries

  22. prasad says

    @ Biju
    Here are the word of great scientists and scholars about Bible. Aptha Vakyam Pramanam.
    Name of the author is given above each paragraph.

    Celsus (or celese, Roman author & critic of Christianity)
    He whom you [Christians] named Jesus was merely the leader of a gang of brigands; the miracles you attributed to him were but the operations of magic and esoteric deceptions. The truth is that those so-called facts are only myths you have yourselves made up, without however succeeding in giving your lies a veneer of credibility. Everyone knows very well that whatever you wrote is the result of revisions made in response to criticism against you. (True Discourse, A.D.176)

    Galileo, Italian astronomer and mathematician(1564-1642)
    I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use . To command professors of astronomy to confute their own observation is to enjoin an impossibility, for it is to command them not to see what they do see, and not to understand what they do understand, and to find what they do not discover……It vexes me when they [the Church authorities] would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment.(The authority of scriptures in philosophical controversies )

    Benjamin Franklin, u. s. Statesman, scientist and author (1706-90)
    Every other sect supposes itself in possession of the truth, and that those who differ are so far in the wrong. Like a man traveling in foggy weather they see those at a distance before them wrapped up in a fog, as well as those behind them, and also people in the fields on each side; but near them, all appears clear, though in truth they are as much in the fog as any them.

    Charles Darwin, British naturalist (1809-82)
    I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that…

  23. prasad says

    Charles Darwin, British naturalist (1809-82)
    I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlasting punished. And this is a damnable doctrine. (The autography of Charles Darwin)

    Albert Einstein, U.S physicist (1879-1955)
    I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own—a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty.(new York Times,9 November 1930).I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are determined and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when over population in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet.(From a letter of 1954)

    • Chessus says

      @Biju
      You missed out the Great Voltaire quotes. Neverthless, i am there for you. Here you go.

      “Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world”

      Read here what he has to say about Hindu wisdom

      ” I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganga (Ganges), – astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc.”

      ” It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganga (Ganges) to learn geometry…But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins’(intellectuals) science not been long established in Europe…”

      Come home brother.

  24. prasad says

    @ Biju
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.(Philosophical Dictionary).
    Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world….. Where is the prince sufficiently educated to know that for seventeen hundred years the Christian sect has done nothing but harm?(letters to Frederick the Great, 1767) – Voltaire, French author and philosopher (1694-1778)

  25. KalBhairav says

    At least the Mohammedens are clear – you worship Allah, you will get 72 houris in heaven. Xity? Do all sin, but Jesus died and sacrified himself…he really loves you so much to die for your is a concept that is pretty weird. Amongst the nonsensical cults out there, Xity takes the cake…We just dont get many Xians here…But there are as many holes in Xity as in Mohammedanism.

    Also, the gory bloodbath unleashed by early Xians probably dwarfs the Mohammedan slaughter of Hindus…but I could be wrong…Mohammedan hatred of Hindus probably has no match.

  26. abhi says

    @biju
    why do u just parrot everything from bible and not analyze them with rational mind. reason west losing its xian followers is because many are becoming rational. i wont ask u 2 bcome hindu but atleast bcome an atheist which is far better than being xian or mohammadean

  27. Themo says

    Hello,

    I came across a website of Indian Christian scholar Professor M. M. Ninan:

    http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/index.htm

    He has thousands of pages long free e-books on the subject he claims:

    1) All of the Upanishads (even the earliest ones) Veda Samhitas and Bhagavad Gita were composed/written after 2nd century AD based on Thomas sect of Christianity (after Christianity)

    1) Hinduism did not exist before second century AD

    2) Sanskrit did not exist before second century AD

    3) There were no Hindu temples before second century AD

    4) Any Hindu philosophy and mysticism is derived from Christian Gnosticism. (From Thomas sect)

    5) Vaishnavism or any Krishna sect did not exits before 2nd century AD

    6) He refutes any claims like any “columns” that supposedly prove Vaishnavism pre dated christianity…..

    7) Concept of Krishna did not even exits before 3rd Century AD

    He wrote a lot of books (that 600+ pages) that shows his “proofs” above web site, you can find his books in the link above.

    So what can we say about this? I have questions:

    1) Why don`t we have any manuscripts of the any Vedic scripture before 5th century AD?

    2) Why don`t we find any Hindu temple that dated before second century Ad?

    3) Why don`t we find any upanishadic doctrine in the Buddhist Pali Canon? Buddha never refutes or never mentions them he looks like he is not aware of any Upanishad doctrines?

    • Jason R Prasad says

      He is a Christian, no one cares what he says.

      That is why his books are free, just like the bible, only the gullible would believe this stuff.

      OM TATH SATH

    • Vik says

      @Thermo

      1)Why don`t we have any manuscripts of the any Vedic scripture before 5th century AD?_________________

      Because Vedas were never written down on paper. Vedas were orally passed down from a guru to his disciples and this pattern continued for millions of years. After the Puranic era came into existence, only then Vedas were written down.

      2) Why don`t we find any Hindu temple that dated before second century Ad?
      ____________________________________________

      Temples and murthis were never part of hinduism to begin with. Temples and murthis are much recent compared to Vedic ideology. As Vedas tells us to worship ONE FORMLESS Ishwar, in the Vedic era, there was no such thing as idols or mandirs of Ishwar, we all followed the Vedic way of worship. Now, speaking of mandirs and murthis, this is all copied by Puranic hindus from Jains. Jains initially came up with the idea of idols and murthis, please read Satyarth Prakash as Swami Dayanand makes reference to this. Just like how Jains made idols of their dieties, hindus who started to follow Puranas over Vedas also made murthis of Puranic deities and made their temples in order to worship them.

      ____3) Why don`t we find any upanishadic doctrine in the Buddhist Pali Canon? Buddha never refutes or never mentions them he looks like he is not aware of any Upanishad doctrines?________________________________

      yes, Upanishads are connected with Vedas. Now, remember Bhuddism begun when Buddha was annoyed of people doing fake hindu practices. For example, Sati and the caste system, which Buddha THOUGHT was sanctioned in the Vedas, so this is why he decided to reject the Vedas. Buddha never read the Vedas, had he read them, he would have found out that hindus themselves have deviated from their path. In the time of buddhism, the caste system which is anti Vedic, was quite pravalent back then, so buddha condemned and decided to start his own religion. Please read the article “Buddhism and Vedas” also found on this site.

    • KalBhairav says

      @Themo:

      I came across a website of Indian Christian scholar Professor M. M. Ninan:

      Does he literally believe Cain and Abel screwed Adam to produce future offspring? If yes, does he claim incest is immoral now? If he does so claim, he is not a scholar of any kind. Xity believes in one objective morality. If it was ok for Adam/Eve but not ok for us, he is not even a Xian. :-)

      • KalBhairav says

        @Themo:

        OOPS. I said:

        Does he literally believe Cain and Abel screwed Adam

        Oh no…YHWH had the strictest of punishments if the above had happened :-(

        Leviticus 20:13:

        If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

        I meant Eve in lieu of Adam above. ;-)

    • Vinay Arya says

      The wetern people and their followers are kids.They have never heard any pravachan from true Indian Gurus.That’s why they are writing so.

    • says

      @Thomas – Hem… Interesting………

      1. You mean to say the palaces lying beneath the ocean on the bank of City Dwarka of Gujarat is of 2nd century old ? Oh my lord… Are people around the world so fool that they cant see the reality ?

    • Bagyaraj says

      @ Themo,
      1)Did anybody made a research on the presented proofs by Mr.Ninan?
      2)Why they need to claim Hinduism originated from Christianity?What is the motto behind it?Did Hindus do conversion or Christians?
      3)If Hinduism is derived from Christianity why these are entirely different?Even if you believe that his claims are correct when you compare the beliefs of both religions which you will choose by logic and rational thinking?
      4)Why they need to say Jesus is mentioned in Vedas (no where in Veda even a single letter said about Jesus or Mohammed)?What is their profit by claiming so?
      5)Is it not possible for us to say Vivekananda’s word and claim it is Issac Newton’s or vice verca.Who is going to check all these?
      6)As religion had to be spread through the pathway of satya and dharma why they are spreading such lie?Converted people after all once come to know theirs claims are wrong then what will be the situation of that religion?
      7)It is the natures rule that only truth will triumph then how long did this lies exist?

    • Krishna says

      I’ve heard claims like that before. The problem with such claims is there is zero archeological evidence to prove it. A good question to someone like him would be why does science and archeological dating clearly state some copies of the Vedas to be well over the dates he claims. I think he is doing this for one reason. It isn’t to prove to Hindus anything, but to his own followers so he can try and keep them as christians. It is basically a cult like mentality.

  28. Bagyaraj says

    @ Themo,
    As per Bible Adam was born in BC 4012 . But 69,000 yr old human body has been excavated from Ural mountains in Italy and 2 million year old human skull obtained from Magnolia and so on.So no way the bible is older than Vedas since the first man mentioned in bible itself is only 6000 years old .Bible and Vedas cannot be compared in any means.If you read bible you will understand this.
    Some Muslim scholars also claim that their is Mohammed in various scriptures of Hindus which is false and is proved by Agniveer. My question is if Mohammed or Jesus is mentioned in this scriptures why not to follow this books?
    In Bavisha Purana you can see the name of Jesus,Mohammed which does not mean they are to be worshiped. Bavisha purana wrote about many mughal kings also which does not mean they are to be worshiped.It is written as a part of history and these parts are added to the original Bavisha Purana by a person who knows both Arabic and Sanskrit during Mughal rule.
    As Adam is born on BC 4012 westerners never allow the Vedas to be older than that.
    1)The oldest artifact of copper discovered from India was made during 7786 +/- 120 BC.
    2)A copper metal obtained from Mehargarh was made during 4745 +/- 90 BC.
    3)The Ambamata copper mines in Gujarat were functioning 2200 years ago.
    You can see the technology for preparing this metals in Vedas.

  29. Bagyaraj says

    continued……..
    4)Great ancient Indian mines were Rajpura, Dariba and Udaipur mines in Rajasthan for Zinc ( 1260 BC)
    5)South Lode mines fuly active during 1130 BC for gold, silver and copper minerals.
    Hatti in Karnataka was an important source of gold from 750 BC;
    6)Lead and Zinc were produced in 99% purity from Rampura and Agucha mines during 350 BC.
    7)Zawarmala in Rajasthan was the most active Zinc and lead producing mines during 440 BC;
    8)Ambamata mines in Gujarat was very active copper, lead and zinc mines in Gujarat.
    Ganeswar – Rajar mines were perhaps the oldest copper mines in the world active during 2800 – 2500 BC.
    9)The Kallur copper mines were active during 1200 BC.
    10)Komaranahalli and Tadanahalli are the two very important iron mines producing the metals during 1300 BC .
    11)Attranjikhera mines were active during 1200 BC for iron metal.
    12)Pandu, Rajar and Dhibi in Bengal were active during 1300 BC and Alamghir mines in Rajasthan during 1000 BC & Varnasi mines during 1000 BC all for iron mining.
    If you go through this site you can get more sceintific evidences regarding the archeological heritage of India . http://www.archaeologyonline.net/

  30. dogra says

    Great stuff Agniveer.#
    With these your humbel foot soldiers can fire of ‘bullets’ of knowledsge at the anti hindu indivudals

  31. Themo says

    Apollo Reach,

    I know the easiest solution for beating wife verses is to reject them outright. However the problem is if anyone was able to tamper with the scriptures like that in the past, how can we know the other parts of the scriptures that we trust are not tampered with also?

    • KalBhairav says

      @Themo:

      However the problem is if anyone was able to tamper with the scriptures like that in the past, how can we know the other parts of the scriptures that we trust are not tampered with also?

      One way out is it see what is the overall drift of the rest of the verses. The Upanishads are focussed more on philosophy – so, prima facie, there seems to be evidence that things like wife beating would not feature there.

      Yet another way out is that Upanishads are “divinely inspired”. They are not “words of God” like the Quran. So, the Vedic seers cast their thought and impressions in forms that were based off how the society was organized at that point in time.

      In any case, Hinduism is not too big on objective morality. Hinduism has room to accept that certain practices and sense of right and wrong will change with society, geography and time.

      If there was objective morality, the Abrahamics should burn witches, stone to death adulterers, and actively seek and kill homosexuals. So, it is GOOD that Xians/Mohammedans talk a lot of objective unchanging morality, but thankfully do not practise that in reality.

  32. anktank says

    god is omnipotent………..GOD PARTICLE……………….vedas proved right again……..now mussie pigs should see their own religion……..glooomy and hoax ……islam is false…………

  33. Sayem Kumar says

    Dear Agniveer,

    Great response and also surprised to know such allegations are made which just shows the critics do not really understand or have read the Upanishads. One thing I’d like to say however, although I am just one teenager and a nothing in front of the Agniveer team, the introduction of this page is a little too strong and maybe, just maybe, there is an offensive feel to it. But then again if we think about it, the critics of Upanishads deserve this kind of reply.

  34. says

    Agnivverji!
    Please clarify that one question which haunts my mind is that every Upanishad is as pure as Vedas.
    If not which ones are authentic, please list them.

    Thank You.

    • says

      Ishopanishad is 40th Chapter of Yajurveda primarily. Some renditions have minor modifications. All other Upanishads are human creations and not as preserved as Vedas, so are subject to their compliance with Vedas.

  35. Chinmoy K Bose says

    What I perceive from Vedantas is that imagination is first practiced with generalization with a view to show the suitability of projection of whole lot of human experience on a vital nothingness. But it has cautioned time and again that only a few who in present life can see event horizon over the setting sun and who can have the courage and passion look really beyond. We can not make an end of our god. We call him beyond time and space inexplicable. He is always more than whatever anybody can think of. If we are not concerned about our shortcomings of say, knowledge in broad day light then Upanishad should rightly say “Jamebaishya brinute tena labhya… achievable by only a blessed few.

  36. Dayananad says

    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqcbmKF4NBp4x1CEvE7NOQQ/videos?shelf_index=2&sort=dd&view=0
    Dear Agniveer, This is one guy is posting all around on the youtube,not to believe in Hinduism and he is projecting himself as an Ex-Hindu. He is spiting out his venom on Hinduism saying that All Hindu gods are false and something like that. Please do something about this issue. Obviously he has some agenda to destroy the heritage of ours.Though these kind of looney things doesn’t show any impact,steps must be taken before any damage that would take place.

    • Chetan says

      @Dayananad, Any religion which compels new convert to abuse the religion of his ancestors, their customs and their country cannot be a true religion and that religion or cult does not deserve to exist. So whatever religion the person spreading venom has converted to must die for the welfare of the humanity.

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