- Avoid troubles Remove guilt- Ishopanishad Mantra 3
- Lets have some action! – Ishopanishad Mantra 2
- Lets truly enjoy! – Ishopanishad Mantra 1
- Om in Hinduism
- Quick transformation with Gayatri Mantra
- Why did God create us?
- FAQ on Theory of Karma in Hinduism
- Part 6 – Why other methods fail?
- Part 5 – The Third Principle
- Part 4 – The Corollary
- Part 3 – The Second Principle
- Part 2 – The First Principle
- Part 1 – Vedic Self-Help
- The power of Now! – Vedas
Even a cursory glance at the extraordinary orderliness that we see in the world around is sufficient to prove existence of an entity who is the great planner. This Entity operates so perfectly that scientists have been able to derive mathematical equations that quantify His unchangeable laws.
This Entity would move two unconnected particles even light years apart in such exact fashion that the mathematical formulation of universal law of gravitation is never violated. Scientists know that two distant particles come close to each other as per the equation of Gravitation, but fail to explain what makes the two particles talk to each other and conspire together to move closer in a planned manner. Similarly there are several other laws on which this universe operates – mathematical formulations of few of them have been deciphered by modern scientists but many other remain to be explored in such details.
Now different people call this Entity differently. Scientists call it “Laws of Universe”, Muslims call it Allah, Christians call it God and Vedas – the oldest texts – call it by Om or Ishwar among many other names. A myopic cynic may term this entire world complete purposeless and emanating only out of a random chance of events. (Its a different matter that the very fact that he arrived at this conclusion proves that he is seeking order and purpose out of this randomness). We shall not dwell into the loopholes of such far-fetched statements in this article.
In this article, we shall explore the most fundamental question that arises naturally in most of the non-myopics (agnostics + theists) after seeing this mind-boggling world, its beauty and its ironies – Why did God/Ishwar/ Allah create us?
Most religions try to answer this basic question. And most people who quit one religion and join another are actually seeking answer to this question.
PREMISE 1: HE CREATED US SO THAT WE COULD WORSHIP HIM
Many religious scholars claim that God created us so that we could worship Him. If that be so,
a. God becomes nothing more than a praise-loving dictator suffering from superiority-complex.
b. It proves that God is inconsistent. He changes His habits. That is why since beginninglessness God was all alone, but then He suddenly thought of creating us.
Let us say, He decided to create us at point T1 in time. Now since time has no beginning and God was always present, hence time T1 or any other time T2, T3 etc are equidistant from origin of time which is infinity away. So if He can change his mood at time T1, there is no reason why He cannot change His mood at other time-points like T2, T3 etc. Also, there is no guarantee that He did not create and destroy us or other species at other times BEFORE time T1 of this creation.
Now all religions that claim that Allah created us so that we could worship Him also believe that Allah is perfect. Now if Allah is perfect, it means that at ALL points in time, He is equally perfect and operates as per the SAME laws. Perfection implies that there can be NO single-point inconsistency in God’ habits.
THUS, if God/Allah/Ishwar created us at time T1, He HAS to keep creating us at other time periods also IF He is perfect. Now He cannot create us twice! So if He creates us, He has to also destroy us so as to create us again.
Now if he continues to create and destroy us, how can He ensure that we worship Him when we have been destroyed. This means that either mood of God fluctuates with time, OR, He has NOT created us for worship.
CONFUSION: WHY HE MAKES US SUFFER WHEN HE HIMSELF CREATED US.
This is a most perplexing question that no religious cult can satisfactorily answer. This is the genesis of atheism. Muslims believe that God has a book “Lohe Mahfooz” under his throne, in which all the future acts of all the species has been written in complete detail. But this defies the concept of free-will. If what I do is already written a-priori, why punish me for being a Kafir? Even the punishment is written already in Lohe Mahfooz!
Clergies answer this paradox smartly. For example, the neo-Prophet Zakir answers in following lines:
“ In a class there are all kinds of students. Some are brilliant and come first. Others fail. Now a smart teacher can predict who will get what rank. This does not mean that the teacher is forcing the students to perform in a particular manner. This only means that teacher is intelligent enough to know who will do what. And since Allah is most-intelligent, He knows everything that will happen in future.”
A very reasonable sounding answer. But only that it has a major flaw. The teacher can predict the performance of his students only because he has assessed the past and present performance of the students. But in case of God, it is He Himself who decides which student would be born intelligent and who shall be dumb!
So while Mohandas Gandhi was born on 2nd October 1869, Allah had already decided millions of years before his birth that this boy would remain a Hindu, but appease Muslims, and yet be called a Kafir deserving Hell by devout Muslims like Muhammad Ali. So right from his birth, Gandhi had no choice but to simply follow what was already written millions of years ago.
The teacher-student logic would hold ONLY IF the prediction regarding performance of the soul is made only after the soul has been created and developed to be mature enough to decide his course of action. So a Lohe Mahfooz that exists even before creation of souls only proves that Allah/God is unjust. Please refer the articles on Helpless Destiny in Islam and God must be Crazy.
PREMISE 2: HE CREATED US TO TEST US
This concept has already been debunked in God must be Crazy through several examples. Further, if He is testing us, He cannot have a Lohe Mahfooz or, in other words, cannot predict our future. If He already knows the future, there is no use of testing. And if He is doing both, He is acting only as a moody dictator fond of enacting dramas.
SO WHY DID HE CREATE US??? ULTIMATE CONFUSION
We have eliminated all implausible explanations that can answer this perplexing question. If not for testing and not for worship, what else can be the reason for creating us? It cannot be for giving us happiness, because we find so many brutal things happening in world. People even commit suicide tired of pains in life.
Further, why did he create in first place, even if to give happiness or grief or take an exam? Could he not have simply enjoyed his solitude that he decided to first create us and then play games with us? In helplessness, one is left with no choice but to say, “Allah knows the best”, or “Khuda Jaane”, or “ God knows”, or even “Goli maar bheje me!”
Buddhism is practical and does not even touch this question. It says that before even thinking of answering such questions, raise the level of intellect through practice of mind and sense control. No doubt, a very practical suggestion for those entrenched in worldly glitters to be blinded to see and feel things beyond.
But despite all this, the question keeps burning somewhere deep in us – Why did He create Us? And nothing seems to make sense or look purposeful unless a satisfactory answer to this question is obtained.
It is true that Only God knows the Best. But Vedas – the first books of humankind – throw sufficient light on this perplexing question for us to take this quest further. And the answer provided by Vedas is clear and unambiguous:
GOD NEVER CREATED US.
And because God never created us, He also never destroys us. Creation and destruction of soul is NOT the scope of work of God.
Thus, just as God is beginningless and endless, so are we. We have existed along with God always and shall continue to do so.
Q: If God did not create us, what does He do?
A: God does what He is doing today. God is managing us.
Q: Then why He made this world and universe?
A: God did not create the root cause of the world and universe. The root cause – called Nature (Prakriti) – was always present and shall remain forever.
Q: This is confusing – God does not create world and He did not create us. Then what does he do?
A: As told earlier, he is managing us. To explain in detail, God brings the root cause of inanimate nature (Prakriti) and modifies it to make the universe/world in same manner as a potter uses water and clay to create pots. He then integrates this universe with souls.
Q: But why does He do all this?
A: He does all this because unless he does so, souls cannot perform actions so as to maximize their happiness. Thus He integrates souls with the universe in a manner that Law of Karma holds perfectly at all times. Now soul can, as per its deed, choose to increase of decrease its happiness.
Q: But why He needs to do all this drama to give us happiness? Can’t He give us directly?
A: God does not do anything which is not his property. For example, He will never kill Himself and create a new God. Now soul has certain properties: it is conscious, exists but devoid of happiness. It can do nothing on its own. It is like a microprocessor which can function only when hooked to a power source and motherboard. Thus God creates this computer system aka universe so that the microprocessor aka soul can function and exhibit its powers to achieve happiness.
Q: How does this Law of Karma work
A: Refer the FAQ on Theory of Karma. But basically, soul has following 6 properties: Desire, Repulsion, Efforts, Happiness, Sorrow and Knowledge. The source of all these is the core Will-power and the goal is to achieve ultimate bliss. Now as and when the soul exercises its will as per its natural properties, it is able to exhibit these properties even better and move closer to the goal. But if it acts unnatural, the properties diminish in expression and it would move away from the goal. Thus based on its deeds, soul achieves different states of its quality called Chitta.
Now what God does is that depending upon the quality of the soul, it provides it an environment which is most conducive for it to exercise its will and move towards its goal. Thus Bliss is a function of Actions which is a function of Thoughts which is a function of Knowledge which is a function of Will-Power. The reverse is also true meaning that if actions are bad, they lead to diminished knowledge and hence skewed will-power. And when one does extremely bad deeds, God puts those souls in non-human species where they can no more exercise their will-power significantly. This is done to clean up the soul of garbage in its Chitta.
This process goes uninterrupted by death. Death is merely a short stop in the journey where you get down the vehicle and replenish yourself with food and water to start afresh.
Q: This is too much to understand in one go. Can you summarize?
OK. Here is the summary:
a. God, Soul and Nature (Prakriti) are three eternal entities that always existed and will always exist. This is the actual concept of ‘Trinity’.
b. God never creates or destroys souls or nature. He only acts as a Super Manager who brings Soul and Nature together so that souls can put efforts as per Law of Karma to achieve ultimate bliss.
c. Whatever is happening with us in our life is as per our own efforts till last moment. And we can change the course of our destiny through present and future efforts.
d. Death is never a final stop. It is just a short break after which journey continues unhindered.
e. When we say that God is creator, we mean that he brings souls and nature together to give them this non-random well-planned shape. He then maintains the universe to help the souls. Finally He destroys the universe and then again starts the process of creation. All this – creation, maintenance and destruction – continues to happen just like night and day continue to follow each other. There was never a time when this process did not exist nor shall there be a time when this process will cease. That is why He is called Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Maintainer) and Pralaykarta (Destructor).
f. No property of God changes ever. So whatever He does at ALL times is for benefit of souls.
g. Souls have free-will. But that is subject to their knowledge which depends on their deeds. This forms the basis of Theory of Karma.
h. Put simply, God is always with us and he is always helping us. We need to simply follow the core will and attempt to accept truth and reject falsehood every moment. This act of truth-seeking is the natural property of soul and purpose of this universe. When we do so, we rapidly progress towards ultimate bliss.
So God never created us from nothingness. He however developed such a marvelous world for us to help us. And we can help fulfill our destiny and purpose of this creation through truth-seeking. This is the core message of Vedas and sole essence of life.
Q: One final Question – How does one ascertain that this also is not yet another creative theory and not the truth? Why should we believe you?
A: Several reasons:
a. Whatever has been said is as per Vedas – the oldest and unchanged texts. Refer the text below and you shall find several references and details.
b. This theory is intuitive and as per common observations in life. It does not talk of a miracle that needs to be accepted blindly. Law of Karma is seen working everywhere. You need not go far to test it. Simply become positive and cheerful and enthusiastic for 30 days, refuse to be negative, refuse to indulge in wrong acts and note down how whatever happens in life or you feel. You would find your level of bliss to be way higher in this small experiment. This theory is at least more plausible than things like theory of evolution which no one ever witnessed, or stories of miracles which no one ever saw.
c. Vedas do not even put a restriction that you need to believe in it blindly. However the action points that derive from this theory are such that every sensible person would agree – that accept truth and reject false to best of intentions. And perform good acts as mentioned in Vedic religion in brief.
Remember that Vedas have a very organic intuitive approach. There is no compulsion in believing. What Vedas say instead is that as and when you continue accepting truth and rejecting false to best of your intentions, things will automatically start becoming clearer. So call it whatever if you are not convinced. But you would have to agree that there is no other theory which is more logical, intuitive as well as motivating than the theory that –
“God has always been and shall always protect us and nurture us and give us opportunities and work only for our benefit all the while giving respect to our free-will without deviating even a bit!”
The global bestseller “The Secret” merely scratched the surface of this marvelous theory and changed lives of many. Imagine what would be the potential of the complete theory!
This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/4633/why-did-god-create-us-hi/[mybooktable book=”questions-only-hinduism-can-answer” display=”summary” buybutton_shadowbox=”false”][mybooktable book=”complete-works-agniveer” display=”summary” buybutton_shadowbox=”false”]
Agniveer Ji
Please let me know any logical point when GOD is all powerfull why he cannot create Soul and Matter.
Thanks
dear dev we are discussing on this here!
http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-20606
so let us all join discussion there and benefit all of us! 🙂
It is a good article.
We can see progress in this article from believing in God as the Creator of the Souls to one who is just directing the Universe. Seems if this article evolves further, we can see it agreeing with the Jain theory of the Universe.
Jain theory says that Nature has been and will be. Souls have been and will be.
The only difference is that instead of Iswar or God – the Jains have identified Karmraj as the reason behind the cycle of birth and death.
So according to the Jains there is a Soul, there is Nature and there is Karma.
Again, I do not mean to say that the Jain theory that I have understood gives a perfect explanation. I just mean to say that your article evolves to agree or come very close to the Jain theory of existence.
Whereas, Buddha has professed ignorance and doubt as regarding a Creator, and hence Buddhism is a agnostic religion, the Jains have been atheists – that is not believing in a Creator God. To that extent, your article somewhat comes close to that of the Jain view.
Jainism, the most eco friendly religion, is the need of the hour to fight blatant and unbridled consumerism and violence.
Having said the above, I do find many similarities between the Vedic way of life and the Jain way of life.
Finally and ultimatley, it is the Indian way of life.
Agniveer site is doing a good job in connecting the Hindu mind with the Indian culture. India is our home and the thousands of years of Hindu/Jain/Buddhist/Sikh wisdom has gone into making this culture a rich one.
please explain this line-“god has not CREATED us,he has MANAGED us”.
@aoun sadiq
Brother, As per eternal Religion Three entity God, Soul, And Prakriti (Prikriti primordial form of matter) are eternal. There was not a time when soul, Prakriti not exist. These three entity are coeval. The things which have a beginning must have to face its end. If is not eternal it must have to die. But it is general belief souls never dies. That means it has no beginning. Rigveda mandal 10, sukta 129 states that like potter makes pot from clay, similarly God creates universe from non-alive matter prakriti which is uncreated eternal. Prakriti is unseen matter. From unseen matter, the whole universe is created in the visible form. Science also says that matter is never destroyed but changes its form. Suppose a paper is burnt, paper changes its form into ashes. Then ashes are crushed and thrown in air. At this moment, the paper changed into ashes becomes invisible but was never destroyed. Similarly the whole universe at the time of final destruction is turned into prakriti i.e., into unseen form.
u r saying that he has not created d Prakriti.
indeed he has created us. has He not?
jai hind
Please give a proper explaination to this line-“God has not CREATED us,He has MANAGED us”.
I get this is an Hindus’ website.
I have some serious questions that I often pose to religious persons. But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.
To all Hindus:
How do you know if your God is the true God?
How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
What is unique in your religious book that force you to believe in it?
Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism as there are so many religions?
Can anyone address to all my questions?
first when you say religions you talking sikhism,islam,christianity,judaism,zotastrianism,baha, when you talk spirtual philisophical way of lifes you are talking hinduism,buddhism,jainism,taoism,confuism and hinduism accepts both the athiestic and thiestic side but in my opinion through studying different beliefs espically abrahamic beliefs i find sikhism and hinduism the most logical and better they are one of the possibilities
hinduagnostic,
“first when you say religions you talking sikhism,islam,christianity,judaism,zotastrianism,baha, when you talk spirtual philisophical way of lifes you are talking hinduism,buddhism,jainism,taoism,confuism and hinduism accepts both the athiestic and thiestic side”
Yup! You got it right. because I’m a not an Atheist rather I believe in creator/God. but I don’t understand why people believe in certain religion. why they are content? to prove either god/creator exist or not is beyond the human experience, mostly concept of god (what should god want/ how should b god) are based on religions, but how someone sure of his religion?
how do they know what god want from us,as we cant acces to god?
“but in my opinion through studying different beliefs especially abrahamic beliefs i find sikhism and hinduism the most logical and better they are one of the possibilities”
So you say you have studied all religions( yup studying all faiths is the right way , seems to b logical)& you find sikhism & hinduism the most logical & better, so now are you a hindu or a sikh? or both? the concept of god/creator maybe b differ in both of religions, does not it?
You didn’t comment on all questions , will you?
Why do we have to justify ourselves to you? If you don’t like any religion good for you. We have no interest in convincing you to believe in anything. No one is asking you to believe in Hinduism. We are not like the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Islam. We cannot give you answers to your own journey. You need to find the answers to these questions for yourself. Study Hinduism if you like and see if it strikes you. If not move on and learn about another faith. May be no faith is suitable for you.
” But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.”
To you, as you are acting the judge to other people’s reasons for why they believe and why they are satisfied. But what satisfies others may not satisfy you, and why should other people try to satisfy you? You are no queen and we are not part of your court trying to please you. We are not here to give you satisfactory answers. Our lives do not revolve around you. No one cares if you are satisfied with the answers of why others believe. Why we believe is not necessarily going to be the answer to why you should believe. You are being lazy. Go study in depth different faiths to find your own answers to your questions. That is the way to get answers that satisfy yourself because only you know what you are looking for and what clicks with you.
jay,
“Why do we have to justify ourselves to you?”
you dont ‘have to’ justify yourself to me. its like your saying im forcing you with a ‘high hand’ to justify yourselves to me. what my way is just if any religious person is willing to answer , then very well, if not then no problem, it would b ok.
” You are being lazy. Go study in depth different faiths”
Actually im not being lazy, im studying , what bewildered me i dont find answer while others are content.
“Go study in depth different faiths to find your own answers to your questions. That is the way to get answers that satisfy yourself because only you know what you are looking for and what clicks with you.”
yes thats d way. i agree with all those who are suggesting me to study different faiths.
”You are no queen and we are not part of your court trying to please you. We are not here to give you satisfactory answers. Our lives do not revolve around you. ”
i know actually the people are not to b blame when i dont find there answers satisfactory, what clicks thm dont click me or vice verca. im not saying im queen im not forcing anyone so dont b at cross purposes with me.
which ever belief you want to believe in depends on faith and logic and reasoning then maybe comptability to sciene sikhism and hinduism are similar but sikhism is a religion wherre all sikhs follow same thing while hinduism has different philisophies but now days most hindus follow the same philisophy and many of the other philisophies are followed in small numbers i follow hinduism and sikhism bit of both as they are similar as sikhism actually comes from hinduism exceot they believe in 5ks and follow 10 gurus which hinduism doesnt have it is not based on a founder and it doesnt have a founder and their are also other differences i believe in logical reasoning and i believe hinduism and sikhism answer large number of these questions i use think a deist god is a possibility but not anymore as a deist god would have no reason to create the universe and not interact with his creation in anyway you should go through the articles on this site if it seems good accept it if not reject it
@Mary walker:
This is a Vedic(root of Hinduism) website and not that of contemporary hinduism.
Would suggest you browse the website and go through the articles rather than asking question which do not have one line answers but still to give you a start i will try to be concise.
1) there is no your god or my god, they only thing one has to be sure of is the validity of the path to achieve him/her/it. People who believe that they know the truth of GOD will never ever know GOD.
2) because it the most logical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.
3) Yes, that’s how it starts, one validates the documentation at the experience levels and in every day of the living life, and when ones experiences are in line with the scriptures, you know that it’s the way to go.
4) refer point 2
5)refer point 2
Again , please go through the post on this website regarding the Vedic Hindu belief system and the concept of GOD, then come back if required, and yes one does not need to follow a particular religion( to be precise belief and life system in case of Vedism called DHARMA),But At least one should have the basic COURTESY of honouring the particular belief system by associating with it which has answered the questions that an individual has at a spiritual level, rather than trying to carve out and claim their own space for their spiritual ideologies which were fostered by a particular belief system.
@Mary Walker : Actually Question i rephrase
2) because it the most logical & Practical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.
Ankur,
First, thanks for your comments on my questions.
“This is a Vedic(root of Hinduism) website and not that of contemporary hinduism.”
For me this thing is enough that this is a websites belongs to some sorts religious people.
“Would suggest you browse the website and go through the article”
I want to know the personal feelings/ experience for one’s religion for their religion. I want to know how they believe, why they believe, how they feel & why they are content? What are the factors which make them to believe in certain religion.
“1) there is no your god or my god, they only thing one has to be sure of is the validity of the path to achieve him/her/it………”
The problem is that every religious person is sure of the validity of his path.
“1)………….People who believe that they know the truth of GOD will never ever know GOD.”
Means one’s seeking the truth/ knowledge can should not come to endpoint.
“2) because it the most logical & Practical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.”
So do you mean to say you have found “all” the practical & logical answers? okk , amazing!
@Mary Walker:
I want to know the personal feelings/ experience for one’s religion for their religion. I want to know how they believe, why they believe, how they feel & why they are content? What are the factors which make them to believe in certain religion.
Thats why i told you to browser through the articles and then come back!
The problem is that every religious person is sure of the validity of his path.
because there is no sincere comparative study
Means one’s seeking the truth/ knowledge can should not come to endpoint.
it should come to the end point only when the end point is actually reached not before.
So do you mean to say you have found “all” the practical & logical answers? okk , amazing!
is there a specific reason you translated my “MOST” into “ALL” or are so gripped in your limited preconceptions and mental abilities of comprehension.
Ankur,
ok sorry now i see i took it wrong it was ‘most of all’ not ‘all’
Mary Walker@ Here I have tried to make u understand your questions (as per my opinion). I don’t ask u to get satisfied by it, but I think it will help u understand something abt your questions:
How do you know if your God is the true God?
Please don’t draw a line to differentiate between your god and my god, like boundary between your country and mine. I worship to God, the supersoul (parmatma/Ishwar). You are superimposing upon me that he is my God. Actually he is one and only one and I believe in it. God is not different for different religions, he is one for all.
How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
Hinduism original name is sanatan dharma, which means eternal religion. The dharm(religion) which Hinduism teaches about, is not the religion which other group teaches about. Other religion thinks that religion is a mechanical set of doing activities like praying, beliving in this or that etc, and if u don’t do it, ur not following religion and making god angry. They don’t allow practices of other religion (evn if it is good) and usually say that people who don’t follow their religion, will go to hell. But Hinduism is totally different. For us, dharm (religion), is the attribute/ feature of existence of a thing. It talks abt the everlasting religion of a soul- God. Whatever mechanical ways of praying, living etc a person follows, his religion remains one- God. This is the reason why hindus practices different paths, while still not being declared of non hindus. Because we know, path can be different, but aim is one-God. Hinduism says that every human can go to heaven (good birth or salvation) if he do good action.Every thing, movable or non movable, it has its religion. The religion of human is to connect with God, religion of fire is to burn , religion of water is to make wet, religion of mother is to care for child, religion of king is to protect his subjects and make them happy etc etc. Any thing should not deviate from its eternal religion. So Hinduism believes in following only and only truth. It don’t push us to follow only one path, rather it gives us total freedom to follow the truth. Hinduism always focus on a person to use his own intelligence and realize the absolute truth. It gives guidance to a person, and focuses that we have to travel on our path ourselves.
Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
Our religion is to connect our soul with the God. Do u think it is false?
What is unique in your religious book that force you to believe in it?
The uniqueness of hindu’s religious book (actually it is meant fr every human) is that it never force us! There is no primarily condition that u should have believe in Hinduism for reading hindus book. Because after reading it, u will yourself analyze it and find it good! It will show u path towards truth, but never force you! It talks about spirituality and helps us to understand god and connect ourselves with him. Its open for all human, and don’t depends upon his communal religion.
Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism as there are so many religions?
Neither Hinduism is a religion like other religions of the world, nor does it ask to choose it. It is not in the mad race like other religions. It is a philosophy which guides a soul towards God and is based on the intuitions of great sages felt over millions of years. Hinduism accepts truth from every source and is not restricted to a person. It is not based on a blind dogma or belief preached by a particular person, rather it has been contributed by a number of saints and rishi muni. And yeah, these teachings are same as teaching given by God directly to humans. There is no compulsion to choose Hinduism, because it believes in using personal intellect and intelligence to understand truth, rather than forcing anyone by scaring him. This is the reason y u will find promotion of conversions in major religions of world, but hardly u will listen that Hinduism speak abt conversion! Hinduism spread is teaching to every human, and a person from any religion can follow it without converting himself into hindu. Hinduism rises above communal religion and teach abt eternal religion. I believe in ideology of Hinduism, nt because I am born in hindu family, but because my inner mind finds it logical and helps me to understand God and connect with him. Even if I was born in non hindu family, I would have followed the teaching of Hinduism, without being forced to convert my self into a hindu.
1. We have 32 million Devas, and they are NOT “GOD” they are the 5 cognitive elements , Prithvi apa jothi vayu akasha , their manifestations and other forces in nature like sun moon , vidyuth , sea, rain , indra ect and their manifestations which could well run beyond 32 million who help in the running of the Universe , they are governed by the 3 main powers called Brahma , Vishnu , Maheshwara. we worship them for they are our providers.
formless, we have ONE Paramatma , who is not HE/SHE without form who will not punish or reward us , we believe we are a manifestation of THIS paramatman , so we are none other than the Paramatman. SO none of these fit into YOUR concept of “G.O.D.” and we don’t need your concept of GOD
2 Ours IS NOT a religion , because we believe in FREEDOM and would never walk into a cage called religion.
3. IF my existence is FALSE then it can be false , since i exist , it exists.
4 FREEDOM to think , Is the essence of my school of thinking , and nothing is more valuable than FREEDOM
5 i choose it because it respects me as an individual and does not IMPOSE rules on ME. it gives suggestions and lets me make my decision.
Vicjags,
The notion of believing in God the creator has been around for centuries, this belief has not come around out of nothing, religion is important and has been the very means for man to understand God (to a extent) but it should based on logic, should make sense . I choose to believe in “God” a creator of ALL living things, the Universe everything in general, not just us human beings. The fundamental Ideal I do associate with God is goodness, to strive to be a good person in
this life. I myself am no saint, but I am trying to be a better person every day, to live my life as pure and good as I can. because this is the main thing that makes sense to me. I believe God made us to evolve and to grow over time to eventually learn that we all live and we will all die I do agree with many things the bible states, but not all, becus there are flaws so i don’t like to call myself as a christian, Christianity disappoint me . This is an open secret the bible has been re-interpretted over time. so simply i believe in God because it makes sense to me.
it is not strange if someone believe in god but not in religion, people do just like many other beliefs, but you may find such people in a minority because majority choose to b religious or to b atheist.
Vicjags,
”Are you willing to consider God as a manager??”
of cors, im willng.
as 4 god is 1 or 2 or countless.
as v know well we cant meet god so i shud think logicaly either god is one or not. if god can b 2 , then definitely he can be 3 or he can 4 or so on. if i say god is one then all other possibilities automatically vanished, so considering god is one satisfy me more than considering god is more than 1. if god can b more than 1 then he can be 2 or 3 or 4 or…….. infinite – by considering god is more than one i can never guess that he is exactly ‘2’ or exctly ‘3’ or exctly ‘5’ or so on. if he is 2 then y not 3 or y not countless. will choose such things to believe in what seem to b logical to me im careless wht relgious polytheist say.
are you religious? u did not comment on my questions, will you ?
@VicJags : Do you see how you fall in line with
http://agniveer.com/why-did-god-create-us/#comment-34124
Again , please go through the post on this website regarding the Vedic Hindu belief system and the concept of GOD, then come back if required, and yes one does not need to follow a particular religion( to be precise belief and life system in case of Vedism called DHARMA),But At least one should have the basic COURTESY of honouring the particular belief system by associating with it which has answered the questions that an individual has at a spiritual level, rather than trying to carve out and claim their own space for their spiritual ideologies which were fostered by a particular belief system.
You are affirming and quoting the vedic philosophy verbatim but fail to give the credit to the mother Ideology AKA Vedic KS, and claim to follow Christianity and believe as Christ being the saviour
Hidden Agenda/Malicious Intent?
@vicjags : Is this how you acknowledge your religious plagiarism .. by laughing at it. or is it intrinsic to christain/your proselytism
making the efforsts more effective as core christainty fails at explaining concepts like these to an acceptable level of logic.
1. Who really knows, and who can swear,
How creation came, when or where!
Even gods came after creation’s day,
Who really knows, who can truly say
When and how did creation start?
Did He do it? Or did He not?
Only He, up there, knows, maybe;
Or perhaps, not even He.
— Rig Veda 10.129.1-7
2.Rigveda (10.121) also mentions the Hiranyagarbha (literally, golden embryo/womb/egg) that existed before the creation. This metaphor has been interpreted differently by the various later texts. The Samkhya texts state that Purusha and the Prakriti made the embryo, from which which the world emerged. In another tradition, the creator god Brahma emerged from the egg and created the world, while in yet another tradition the Brahma himself is the Hiranyagarbha.[19] The nature of the Purusha, the creation of the gods and other details of the embryo creation myth have been described variously by the later Hindu texts.
The early hymns of Rigveda also mention Tvastar as the first born creator of the human world.[20]
3.Many of the Hindu philosophies mention that the creation is cyclic.[17]:104 According to the Upanishads, the universe and the Earth, along with humans and other creatures undergo repeated cycles (pralaya) of creation and destruction. A variety of myths exist regarding the specifics of the process, but in general the Hindu view of the cosmos is as eternal and cyclic. The later puranic view also asserts that the universe is created, destroyed, and re-created in an eternally repetitive series of cycles. In Hindu cosmology, a universe endures for about 4,320,000,000 years (one day of Brahma, the creator or kalpa)[26] and is then destroyed by fire or water elements. At this point, Brahma rests for one night, just as long as the day. This process, named pralaya (Cataclysm), repeats for 100 Brahma years (311 trillion, 40 billion human years) that represents Brahma’s lifespan
Going with 1,Vedas cannot be sent by God nor any better than a fictional writer or novelist as it says God came after creation.
Going with 2,its metaphorical.
which one you believe?
A religious books should be truthful and flawless.Vedas contain slokas and mantras for gaining material gains.it does not contain any decisive conclusion on creationism.Agniveer,how do we believe it?
I am not completly able to understand wht you are trying to say because i find the common meaning in all the three points. Let me explain it hw:
1. Gods came after creation, these are several dietes (demi gods). Here it is not said that the Creator ( souper soul ) came from the creation!
2. Brahma is said to be the creator of world, and he made world out of “Hiranyagarbha (literally, golden embryo/womb/egg) that existed before the creation”. “the creator god Brahma emerged from the egg and created the world, while in yet another tradition the Brahma himself is the Hiranyagarbha”. This all means that Bhrama is making the entire world.
3. The manisfestion starts at bhrama’s day and unmenifest at Brahma’s night. Several such night and day(Brahma day) make Brahma’s life span!
But the Brahma itself is a function of supersoul, He is not the complete supersoul! Thats y we see Lord Brahma as a part of triology (Brahma, Vishnu Mahesh). Thes are the functions of Soupersoul seen from our point of view. Actually, he is the same !
So all the three things mentioned by you are pointing towards the same thing.
Now i know where Matrix script came frm 🙂
They just delegated the hard part to this mysterious elemental force and off ‘God’ so now ‘God’ is some low-life manager and there is this mystical Prakriti that is/always was/always will be and is the true cause of things. Where did Prakriti come from?
Cause don’t have further causes..Effects may have further effects.Absence of effect doesn’t prove there is no cause but if there is absence of cause,there will be no effect .So If u ask cause of cause , then when u will stop then ? If not then u are proving cause non-existence ie as if it don’t exist..So nature of cause is always unborn..Just like from clay , pot(effect from an effect clay) is created by an ALIVE being human , in the same way from prakriti ,universe is created by ALIVE entity God which is efficient cause .Science is a process of finding ,knowing and applying cause and its effects. So God is a scientific entity so is soul which is effective cause. Primary material cause is known as prakriti.Effects are of 2 types.One in the form of material known as material effect from primary material cause prakriti and other in form of motion known as efficient or effective effect respectively from efficient cause God and effective cause soul.
It’s just not logical and never will be, however you twist the definitions of the words ’cause’ and ‘effect’. Logic is based on the relation between cause and effect and they cannot, in any way, shape or form, be disconnected from each other and still make sense. It all basically boils down to: accept the un-caused, the un-born, or not.
Please note that I do not feel that logic is the master of the universe, so I’m OK with that, but still. We’re just having fun here, right? Giving the old gray matter lump some puzzles to crack.
hi peter I think swami sukhabodhananda said it best with:
“if you teach a stupid person logic, then logic itself becomes stupid”. (no offense)
nothing have been told above which disconnects effect from a cause.Just as pot is proof of potter and clay(both) in the same way universe..Neither without clay nor without potter,there can exist a pot….For us true = cause,illusion=effect and false = never exist….probably u didnt think on these….So i ask u to point out ,what is the relation and difference between cause and effect ?……….Also define what is false?
Do u know what law of conservation of mass says?.. Its already proved matter is unborn but if anyone understands correctly the theory of cause and effect ,then God,matter and soul are easily proved…
Very well said with regards to the law of conservation of mass. Science has proved this, but should we believe whatever science has proved, or we should ask this, has science been able to prove everything? Now, there are so many things that science hasn’t been able to prove things like what is soul? What happens to the soul when a person dies? Existence of God (the biggest question unanswered) n so many of them. So it doesn’t mean that whatever science hasn’t been able to prove it is not to be believed or it does not exist.
Now if science has proved something, like for example in this case the law of conservation of mass, which says that matter is unborn or cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. But this is for human beings like us who have limited capabilities and limited knowledge. It is not true for God because HE is All knowing, all powerful and has unlimited knowledge and power. It is HE who has created us and all and it is HE who is the sustainer and it is HE who will destroy everything at the end.
Nice post. Could you please tell me which Veda book is good. I would like to have an English version. Also complete collection of Vedas. Thank You
Hello friends..!!
Friends—–
We speak & write from human wisdom which can never give us the accurate entity of God.. We speak and say what we learn & heard from others..God is the super most intelligent entity which a human mind can never ever study..
Although Bible is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout…!!
@Shreenath
—–Although Bible is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout…!!
**May be you did not read “The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy”. Pl go through
http://www.freethoughtdebater.org/2011/12/30/bible-errors-and-contradictions/
so that you will get a glimpse. Then tell us why the link is not rational.
Jesus Christ is unique:
Jesus is unique not only in the Bible. Among all the prophets ever sent to this earth, only Jesus Christ has been given the following titles in the Quran:
‘Kalimatullah’ – ‘The Word of God’ (Surah 4:171; cf. Revelation 19:13 & John 1); it is identical with God.
‘Ruhullah’ – ‘A Spirit from God’ (Surah 4:171).
‘Al Masih’ – ‘The Messiah’ (Surah 4:171; cf. Matthew 16:16); he was promised as the Saviour of mankind. …!!
if you want to speak about islam you can go to muslim website and speak to them about jesus after all besides muslims and Christians none of others believe in jesus
Regarding the rebirth cycle the Poet Shiva Vakkiar says; Once milked, the same milk cannot enter into the breast. Once the butter is taken out of the milk, the same butter cannot mix with the same milk. Neither the flower that falls, can become a flower again. Then how can a man or woman be born in this world several times?
Regarding Gnana marga, the Vedas and Upanishads say, that we have to know the Purusha (for He is the knowledge) who has sacrificed His life for mankind…..& that Purusha is JESUS CHRIST..!!
Shreenath,
Clearly you do not understand the law of Kharma and reincarnation. If you did, you would know. a man or woman that lived a life a sin or many many lives of sins can burn off all those sins by following the true path of Yoga (which is meditating on the One true God, turning to service with love of his follow humans, and being a moral person). Krishna says this and even Buddha stated it. And Buddha for part of his life did live in sin, and it was through meditation and service he reached Moksha.
Krishnarao
“Regarding Gnana marga, the Vedas and Upanishads say, that we have to know the Purusha (for He is the knowledge) who has sacrificed His life for mankind…..& that Purusha is JESUS CHRIST..!!”
– LOL,
1. Which verse and Veda?
2. Who translated it?
3. Where can I get a copy of the entire Veda translated by that person or group?
4. Who published it?
5. What Hindu group supports that translation?
If you don’t have this information, you are just finding random statements by charlatans. If you want to read the real full copies of the Vedas, go to Agnikart and buy a copy (currently in Hindi).
shreenath people from the Abrahamic beliefs,baha faith,zorstrianism don’t have anthing to do with eastern beliefs people like jesus.muhammad,zaurhstra,joseph smith have nothing to do with eastern beliefs but we may respect some of them espically jesus where many hindus have spoken good about him
To Everyone,
Who keeps quoting the Vedas, please provide your sources:
1. Which verse and Veda?
2. Who translated it?
3. Where can I get a copy of the entire Veda translated by that person or group?
4. Who published it?
5. What Hindu group supports that translation?
Stop just finding some random verses and here and there and give us the full source where you get it from. If you truly have proof, you can proves the five points mentioned above.
@ Sanjeev
I have gone through ur article expecting to find out your view about creation, instead of that it is about criticizing Islamic belief which u urself not understood. Anyways as you mentioned ‘———GOD never created us…………….
than you could have said about reason for human existence. at least you could have focused on motive of god becoming manager , what might have made a manager. Why he manages us at all. In case if assumed for time being he just manage
Brother Shaik, Namaste!
Reason for our existence – our sanskars from previous birth. Our souls didn’t attain moksha in our previous birth.
GOD as manager – HE is the creator of this universe, manager and destroyer. He created universe out of prakriti with his energy and ability. Again, HE didn’t create the aatma, prakriti. They exist eternally along with him.
His ability to manage this universe through law of karma made him manager.
He manages us through a system of merit where no-one can escape and enjoy the fruits of karma.
Dhanyawad
Did god create this universe or was it already there. Also is the prakriti like an atom or soemthing that building block that makes all this universe.
Dear Anyone, Namaste!
God creates the universe with his energy using the prakriti from its primordial state for the sake of human beings and other living beings. God is called the efficient cause, Matter in its primordial state is called material cause and human beings are the first cause for the creation.
Dhanyawad!
also where were souls before when no organisms were alive do they replicate themselves when more and more organisms come about. When the earth gets destroyed as we know in the future what happens to reincarnation.
Dear Anyone, Namasate!
Souls, Matter and God are eternal. They exist at all the times at before srishti and after srishti. There is no start nor end to these three. Souls are countless or infinite. During the pralay, everything goes back to the primordial state. There will not be any of these nature and any living beings. When a living being attains moksha or mukti, that soul is mukt from re-birth until this srishti and it becomes normal as other souls when the new srishti begins.
Dhanyawad
This is mind blowing, it really blew off my mind. I mean, you say that God did not create us and the existence of God, Soul and Prakriti always existed and will exist eternally. Phew!! You also say that God exists only to manage this soul movement from one form to another and manage the prakriti, is that all the reason God exists?????? As a manager of things?????? Then again you say that he creates, maintains and destroys the souls and prakriti and again create, maintain and destroy and this process has been happening and will continue to happen at all time, as if eternal (in the sense there was no beginning and there will be no end for this process) just can’t believe what I just wrote, so so so so so confusing….. I mean, you mean to say that this process will continue to continue until the eternal time and has been happening from the eternal time, is that correct?????? Oh My GOD!!!!!!!!!! are you confused or are you trying to confuse us?????
I do understand if you say that God does not have a beginning and end, and HE is Eternal….. but how can it be that the souls (humans) also do not have a beginning or end. There is some starting point and an end point for humans. It is either that YOU HAVE FAILED to understand this concept or I would finally have to say that the VEDAS HAVE FAILED to explain this concept in the correct way……
Great explanation on the most complicated question. Thank you.
I did talk to many well-known Gurus and read many books to get to this conclusion and I am very happy to see the same over here too 🙂 …. Still I have a somel questions some where in the corner of my mind,
Q1: Looking at the violence that the jeeva’s feel, I some times think that I would be happy just being soul instead of taking birth on earth for Karma !!! How can we justify this pain in the universe. We cannot just say its because of the bad karma that the jeeva has done. Because if i would never given a birth I would have never done bad karmas.
Q2. Why did souls become jeeva (i mean came to earth taking birth) in first place when they were pure. Why this cycle started.
Q3. Even though its from origin, I didnt get the reason for soul existence that too in this huge number !!!!
Q4. And could you please explain what is ultimate bliss? Why a pure soul gets into this cycle of rebirth after bliss?
Q5. Why GOD letting the jeevas to do bad karma in first place? He could have designed the complete universe system such a way that it could not allow jeevas to do bad karmas itself.
Truly impressed sir,
My concepts are cleared good work
I want to meet you sir…..
Please mail your address I will be very great full
Veda mentions different gods as the creator of the universe, Rig Veda 2.20.1, 2.13.5 says Indra has created the earth, Rig Veda 10.82.1 and Yajur Veda 17.25 says Vishwakarma created the heaven and earth, Rig Veda 10.190.3 says Dhatar has created the heaven, earth, sun and the moon. Atharva Veda 9.5.20 says that the breast of the God Aj became the earth, we read in Purusha Sukta that the feet of the lord became the earth, all these Vedic verses contradict each other. Atharva Veda 13.1.6 states that Rohita created the heaven and earth. A verse states that Prajapati created the universe, another verse in Yajur Veda 14.30 states that Prajapati prayed to a Divine Speech and thence earth and heaven were produced. Some also say the creation took place after the association of father and daughter mentioned in Rig Veda 10.61. Now the question arise who created universe according to vada. But, Agniveer sb if you are asserting that all three souls, gods,and universe always existed then it will pose big challenge on basic physics law ( law of thermodynamics ;entropy), quantum theory and many more phenomena will be contradicted. I think this is your “Intuition”. You have given only intuitive theory.
Veda mentions different gods as the creator of the universe, Rig Veda 2.20.1, 2.13.5 says Indra has created the earth, Rig Veda 10.82.1 and Yajur Veda 17.25 says Vishwakarma created the heaven and earth, Rig Veda 10.190.3 says Dhatar has created the heaven, earth, sun and the moon. Atharva Veda 9.5.20 says that the breast of the God Aj became the earth, we read in Purusha Sukta that the feet of the lord became the earth, all these Vedic verses contradict each other. Atharva Veda 13.1.6 states that Rohita created the heaven and earth. A verse states that Prajapati created the universe, another verse in Yajur Veda 14.30 states that Prajapati prayed to a Divine Speech and thence earth and heaven were produced. Some also say the creation took place after the association of father and daughter mentioned in Rig Veda 10.61. Veda is very much confused in creation of universe. If universe existed always then it will contradict basic laws of thermodynamics and quantum physics.
If universe always existed then solve the problem of microwave background radiation, expansion of universe, entropy, advancement of human civilisation, big bang theory, general theory of relativity, cause and effect theory. Tell me plants have soul or not. If plants have no soul and it is created for the benifit of human and animals then it implies that plant is a part of creation . if creation takes place then tell me the time of creation . I know you told earlier souls, god and prakriti(universe) are not creation they always existed then what about plants. Tell me about extinct animals and plants, now god is using new animal species in place of extinct species as a vehicle for soul according to humans karma. I think your god is inconsistent in selection of vehicles for souls.
[…] This translation has been contributed by Ronak and Kruti. Original post in English is available at http://agniveer.com/why-did-god-create-us/ […]
It seems God is just managing souls and not creating souls.
The population of our world now is around 7 billion as compared to approx 400 millions during the vedic period.
If god only manages where did the 6 billion souls came from.?
how do you know ? can you total all forms of life in this universe ?