Why-I-am-not-an-Atheist--
In past several posts we have critically analyzed two of the major doctrines of the world and found the following:

a. Both contain blatant internal contradictions.
b. Both contain concepts that are blatantly against proven science.
c. Both contain concepts on issues of human rights, gender rights and morality that can put any sensible person to shame.

In addition, both have a same common theme running across:

– Once upon a time, God thought of creating universe and humans from nowhere. (What caused God to do this one time exercise when he has been existing since infinity and will exist till infinity, is beyond these superstitious texts!)

– Then God sent some Adam and some Eve (whom he made from rib of Eve) who used to roam around naked. Once they ate some fruit of a tree where they were stationed by God. This petty act irritated God so much that He chose to curse Adam/ Eve and his progeny forever with pain and grief.

– God created some Satan also who would trouble other creations of God.

– God has pre-decided fate of everyone born and everyone yet to be born.

– God sends his divine knowledge through some book on some persons. Those who believe in that book and person blindly alone, will go to a Paradise. Rest will burn in Hell forever.

– Different sects claim a different set of divine book(s) and their prophets. There is no way to decide conclusively which set is true. But if you make a mistake, you are doomed to Hell forever.

– To add to complexity, God decided to not provide any mechanism for conservation of the divine book. Perhaps because modern storage methods were not yet devised when these books were launched, and hence God too was ignorant! But still if you make a mistake, Hell is waiting! There are countless Bibles, and Quran was compiled 20 years after death of its Prophet by those who were fighting for each others’ lives. In fact Quran was not even called Quran till its compilation, and the earliest available Quran is 300 years later to its Prophet’s death.

– The only supporting evidences to justify authenticity of a divine book are miracles that have been performed by the magicians called Prophets who broadcasted the contents of the book. Now there is no way to deduce if the miracle actually happened, but unless you choose to believe in the right book and right Prophet from among so many bidding for faith of humans, you are destined to burn in Hell!

– There will be another miracle when world ends. God will then have a court-proceeding along with his chosen Prophet to decide whom to send to Hell and whom to Heaven. God does not know that right now and has to do a drama.

In summary, blind belief in a particular book and stories associated with the book, along with its broadcasting Prophet is the only way for escaping Hell. What more the God as per these books is

– whimsical
– inconsistent
– deliberately confuses people
– has already decided who shall go to Hell and who shall go to Heaven even before people take birth,
– has created a Satan to add to confusion of people
– tests some people for decades and sends others to Heaven directly from womb
– at times himself acts like a Satan to trouble people and make them ignorant
– chooses such people as Prophets who are murderers, rapists, pedophiles, preach hatred, self-obsessed and psychopaths. Some Prophets have symptoms exactly of Temporal Lobe Epilsepy
– and most importantly, has prewritten fate of everyone. Thus free-will is simply an illusion of free-will

This is the case with all the dominant religious ideologies and associated scriptures of the world.

Under such a situation, it makes more sense for someone with a mind that can think, to be an Atheist than believe in such a book and such a God, among many in the market.

Thus typically those who believe in one of these blind faiths belong to one or more of following categories:

a. They were born in a family or society following a particular faith.
b. They came to read book(s) of their family faith, saw the junk, got irritated and hence opted for a different faith in the market. For example, I bought a Motorola mobile, it crashed one day and hence I decided to never use Motorola and choose Nokia instead!
c. They want to feel important and know that if they change faith, they will get greater importance in new society of blind-followers
d. They want to be liberal in relations with opposite/same gender and marriages.
e. They know that they would have to face grave harm from society if they turn apostates.
f. They have limited intelligence, or are too emotional and thus got swayed by marketing hype and social hatred/preference.

But for a rational person, who is also brave, atheism seems to be the only option in a world where people do not have any reason to believe what they believe in. Thus Atheism is a natural reaction mechanism to hoax of a religion that has no logical foundation and is based merely on blindness of minds. Atheism is thus the next step of evolution of intellect from tendency for blind belief and believing without reason.

The above holds true not only for Islam and Christianity, but also for majority of Hindus comprising Sanatanis, Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs and so many other big and small cults and sects. Thus we see many Muslims being Muslims because they hate Christians and Hindus. And many fanatic Hindus call themselves as proud Hindus primarily because Islam has been a barbaric nuisance in this subcontinent and largest factory of terrorism production since its inception (competed closely by Christianity in its early phase).

And then we have an entire cult of Secularists who deliberately or unknowingly refuse to explore and merely shout that all religions are equal merely because all have some good elements and all have more or less fraud elements as well. These secular businessmen who tend to benefit from the religious confusion in the society like the jackals of the jungle, only add to the prevailing confusion.

Thus, we see a society where emotions run high, people tend to follow what they are used to, or rebel abruptly, tend to mix social and religious beliefs, have given up any element of logic to support their belief systems and have no reason to explain why I am a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jew or Sickular! Thus a more sensible person turns Atheist. A more evolved thinker goes a step ahead and becomes Agnostic – I don’t know! May be God exists, may be not. Who cares! And Why?

Agniveer also had the opportunity to become an Atheist or Agnostic. It rejects all popular religious texts as full of defects listed above. However, in same vein as Agniveer rejects these religious texts, it has no option but to trash the Atheist or Agnostic school of thought.

The reasons are as follows:

a. Despite the hype created by false texts, the fact remans that I exist. And I cannot be a chemical reaction or inanimate entity. If that be so, how could I demonstrate the characteristics of happiness, sorrow, attraction, repulsion, efforts, intellect. I agree that different parts of brain enable these functions. But who is the source? Who is the driver of the car? Who, even after a deep sleep, wakes to say that I slept peacefully? Who feels the peace? Who gets the urge to be Agniveer. Who feel the ‘I”? If it were a purely physiochemical world, only inanimate objects would have existed and there would not have been ‘You’, ‘Me’, ‘He’ or ‘She’ debating this very topic!

Now presence of ‘I’ cannot be denied. The very act of denial proves that an “I’ exists that is denying!

b. Further, there is no cause for this ‘I’ to get destroyed. Since ‘I’ is not a physical entity, ‘I’ cannot be worn off or damaged by other physical entities. Apart from the change in association of ‘I’ with other physical entities like body, nothing can change in ‘I’. ‘I’ don’t need a proof to know that ‘I’ exists!

c. Now if ‘I’ is imperishable, how come rest of the physical entities work together in unison to create appropriate environment for ‘I’ to exist, enjoy, act and think? ‘I’ know that ‘I’ did nothing to manage it. Yet I know a grand conspiracy is constantly at work to suit my requirements of survival with physical world and enjoy the same. Thus I get a body whose wonderful mechanism is not yet understood, a brain about which we know nothing much except that there is nothing more mysterious than it, the food I eat, the society I live in, the earth, the solar system, the universe ….

‘I’ know ‘I’ did not manage all these complexities. ‘I’ know that inanimate particles and waves cannot create a corporate body and allocate responsibilities to make all this happen like in a factory. So there is some other entity who is managing it all. Now this entity has to be living/animate like me or else it cannot manage innumerable ‘I’s like me.

And this amount of introspection, suddenly destroys the very foundation of Atheism. And it challenges Agnostic to admit that you are Agnostic only because your intellect has a limited capacity today.

d. So I know clearly that three entities exist right now – ‘I’, inanimate particles/waves, and the manager of it all. Lets call them soul, nature and Ishwar (God).

Thus while the God of Quran or Bible has been trashed by an intelligent soul, the presence of these three entities cannot be denied and hence no rational soul can be an atheist.

Thus all leading scientists have refused to be Atheist and have admitted that a manager Ishwar has to exist.

e. Some skeptics may argue further and say that there is no Ishwar but only laws of nature which lead to creation of everything in world. But this is only a false excuse to get out of clutches of Bible or Quran. This cannot stand reason of scientific spirit because:

– What we call as law of nature is nothing except something being repeated in most perfect manner without deviations. For example, Yajurveda says that “Ishwar has held every entity and moves them perfectly as per unchangeable laws.” Because He does so with perfection, we call it to be a law. Let us take example of Law of Gravitation. Two objects at a distance tend to attract towards each other as per a defined formula. Now if there is no entity managing the whole show, what caused the objects to get attracted? Scientists call it Fundamental Law because they cannot answer it further.

An analogy would be a mother of a deaf-blind child. Whenever the child wept, mother gave him food. And she did it in most perfect manner. A few years later, the child was communicated through some language that her mother has been very nice to him and gave him food every time he wept. The child laughed, “What a joke! I don’t know any mother. Its a fundamental law of nature, that when I weep, some food comes to me!” An Atheist is a nothing but such a deaf-blind child!

– They cannot explain why would certain physical entities suddenly start having a feeling of ‘I’. They cannot even explain which particular physical entity is feeling this ‘I’. For example, scientists are baffled on whether there is a specific seat of consciousness in human brain, or many neurons together form ‘consciousness’. If yes, how and why? And why does that consciousness repels against death and its destruction? Why that consciousness seeks peace and wants to avoid frustrations and grief?

So called Atheist scientists have no answer. And they also don’t know how they can answer it except admitting existence of another intelligent entity apart from their own jungle of neurons in their respective brains!

Their claims are equally ridiculous compared to claim of Allah of Quran saying ‘Kun’ and creating Adam from mud and God of Bible making Light first and then creating Sun and Stars!

f. What more, I find that my thoughts control my destiny to large extent. By moulding my thoughts and resolving for anything, automatically I get surrounded by situations and people that help me move towards my resolve. There is an art through which all the inanimate and animate entities of the world seem to working as per my thought processes. If I tend to be negative, negative events happen with me and negative people surround me. If I tend to be enthusiastic, I get more enthusing opportunities. Recently a bestseller book “The Secret” was written on this principle. (This is nothing but first step of foundations of Vedas and Yog).

g. Further, if there is no permanent ‘I’ and no just manager of everything, all the concepts of ethics, morality, peace, honesty go for a toss. Then even punishment of criminals is wrong. Incest is also justified. Murder is also justified. Insanity is also justified. Nothing remains unjustified except the curious urge of an Atheist to expose frauds of religious cults and propagate Atheism!

‘I’ know I exist, and unless there is an entity managing all this for me, ‘I’ know that nothing at all will make any sense!

Thus a brief scratching of surface brings us to yet another conclusion:

That Atheism or Agnosticism is as insane an ideology as Islam, Christianity and other cults based on stories of miracles and Prophetism.

Thus despite disillusionment with the various cults and sects, a rational ‘I’ can still not be an Atheist.

g. There may be some smaller sects who agree with conclusions till this point, but would want to present their own ideology to be true. For example some sects that claim that there is no absolute God and only those souls who reach high levels of spiritualism become God. We did not spend much time to reject these cults because these cults are not intolerant like cults of Bible and Quran and at least share a common ground of tolerance and opportunity for all.

However the basic flaws of these cults are their scriptures. If one reads them, one finds huge number of descriptions which are proven to be false. For example, flat earth, wrong description of earth, universe etc, wrong descriptions of human size etc. So we ignore proponents of these cults as those mindsets who are misled to believe in a cult due to reasons mentioned earlier in the article. A good analysis of such cults has been done by Swami Dayanand Saraswati in Chapter 11 and 12 of Satyarth Prakash.

So finally we are left with a firm belief that despite all the confusion created by these false texts and baseless ideologies:

a. God still exists

b. ‘I’ also exist

c. If at all God is just and rational:

– His knowledge and path for total bliss relevant for me should be intuitive to my intellect

– This knowledge cannot be left to be based on my own intellect, because that is limited. So it has to be a perfect absolute benchmark, I can look up to, throughout my progress, without doubting whether I am being fooled by my limited intellect.

– This knowledge has to be unchangeable. There should be some mechanism to ensure that the knowledge is preserved in same format as since inception.

– This knowledge has to be available since dawn of human civilization and not have emerged suddenly through some self-proclaiming prophet and his gang or some self-proclaimed saint. The saint may at best present this same knowledge in more reasonable manner for my consumption.

– The life should exist in a cycle of birth and death because I can do nothing without a supporting body and intellect, and one single life is too less a time to achieve the final desired state of bliss. Also if there is only one life, if I fail to achieve ultimate level of bliss in one single life, still some more opportunities have to be provided to me since I still exist. And if there is no such additional opportunity provided, then life itself has no meaning. This knowledge should remain same in all lives.

– This knowledge should not be in a vernacular language

– This knowledge should be an ultimate benchmark but not something which has to be mandatorily believed in blindly to escape wrath of God. I should have the opportunity to explore the truth myself and reach the knowledge through process of efforts and evaluation. There should be no force of blind compulsion.

– This knowledge should not have internal contradictions.

– This knowledge should not have contradictions with established facts and observations of science.

– This knowledge should not contain time or geography specific knowledge that are not relevant for all ages and all locations.

– This knowledge should be devoid of superstitious stories and false claims.

– This knowledge should be based on tolerance, equality, peace, bliss and purposefulness that is so intuitive to ‘I’.

Thus despite being shaken by frauds of Bible, Quran et al, I still believe in Ishwar or God, and aspire to seek and lead my life as per such source of knowledge as described above.

I reject the God of Bible or Allah or Quran completely. But  I am not an Atheist. I am also not an Agnostic.

I believe in an Ishwar who is existent, animate, blissful, formless, omnisicient, unborn, endless, unchangeable, beginningless, the support of all, the master of all, omnipresent, permanent, unageing, immortal, fearless, eternal, and holy, and the maker of all.

I believe in an Ishwar who exists with me always – right from beginninglessness (Anadi) to endlessness (Anant).

I am Vedic. I am seeker of Truth and Truth alone!

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

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Agniveer symbolizes the efforts of a soul marching towards the ultimate goal through destruction of ego and falsehood. With focus only on right knowledge, right actions and right devotion. In other words, Agniveer stands for compassion, character, tolerance and rational humanism. Agniveer believes in One World, One Humanity, One Family.

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184 Comments on "Why I am not an Atheist"

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Akanksha
Akanksha
1 year 9 months ago

Hello Agniveer
I belong to Jain community but I believe in Advaitavaad or Purnavaad of Hinduism and not in Anekantavaad of Jainism and Shunyavaad of Buddhism.

Ashutosh
Ashutosh
2 years 4 days ago
Another religious apologist. Spiritual imposition of god and beliefs! Get a life! You fear something which never existed, doesn’t exists and will never exist. Reason your beliefs and doubt everything. The good thing about science is that, it’s open to doubts and some theories have already been proven false! The… Read more »
Sugatha
Sugatha
1 year 11 months ago
Dear Ashutosh All scientific men believe in GOD only when they encounter the impossible, the unexplained phenomenon. In present day, a place called ” Shivgange” approx 60 kms from Bangalore has an ancient Shiva Temple on a hill top. Offerings of ghee turns to butter when applied on the Shiva… Read more »
Krishnarao
Krishnarao
1 year 11 months ago

Nice trying to lump every religious person in one category me racist. You have no idea what we follow. And just pure western science has no morality. So get educated dummy.

Krishnarao
Krishnarao
1 year 11 months ago

*Mr.

Captain Pants
5 years 5 months ago
The justification for his beliefs are an argument from incredulity fallacy. No matter the sophistication of the concept nor the effective presentation of it – still amounts to a supernatural belief based on no evidence except one’s own befuddlement and inability to say – “we don’t know yet.” I would… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
Ok now I am proposing a new/old religion 1. sun and other innumerable stars with sun as the head is our GOD. 2.he is the cause of all life forms on earth and is not effected by the life forms. 3. We pay or respect to sun just because of… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

@adolf

🙂

Let me attempt:

theist – per your definition 1-3
agnostic – who gives a shit. I dont know and I dont care. I just wanna drink beer and watch TV.
atheist – well…prove to me that the moon is not the God.

adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>atheist – well…prove to me that the moon is not the God. BOP lies on the atheist and in defining the word God wrt moon. As per the above religion GOD and Sun are synonyms. Any case you will be starting a new religion with moon and god as synonyms.… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@adolf: Hey, I dont know. I just thought I would put myself in the shoes of an atheist and try to answer the questions honestly 😉 Stuff like this is why I think the debate is pointless. Things get muddled in a sea of semantics and unsolvable thought experiments and… Read more »
sarang
sarang
5 years 5 months ago
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>Naturalism – Control: Understanding how we are caused to behave as we do gives us increased powers of prediction and control. Instead of supposing people can simply will themselves to be otherwise, As if the circumstances which lead people to search or want o become what they are in the… Read more »
einstein
einstein
5 years 5 months ago

@ anir please do not accuse kalbhairv or others of “butting in”.(its just plain bad manners) he has provided logical arguments in other posts aswell as this one

einstein
einstein
5 years 5 months ago
@ anir “To avoid these traps scientists assume that all causes are empirical and naturalistic; which means they can be measured, quantified and studied methodically.” so whats new here? i already knew thats what science is about. lol the methodological naturalism offers nothing new to the imagination other than childish… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

so whats new here? i already knew thats what science is about. lol

This is how well you understand science. That is why I had to point out that college doesn’t teach you the philosophy of science.

adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir >>And then you had to make the *idiotic* (please don’t construe that as I being disturbed. It is just an observation) assumption that atheists can’t have a fulfilling life and my response to that to that was to show you that atheists do have a fulfilling life. Unlike you,… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@KalBhairav I say science and SD evaluate to true *FOR ME*. Let me repeat *FOR ME*. Why do I need to show YOU anything? In any case, you make your intention clear about how you will treat ANY response from me in this regard when you state. Okay, fine. You… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Okay, fine. Thanks. You seem to have your own meaning of science, which you should have made explicit before. Non sequitur. Science and SD serve *TWO DIFFERENT* purposes for me.The realms they operate on for me are mutually exclusive. Since you are hellbent on denying the existence of a… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Non sequitur. Science and SD serve *TWO DIFFERENT* purposes for me.The realms they operate on for me are mutually exclusive. Since you are hellbent on denying the existence of a spiritual realm (correct me if I am wrong…you link to naturalistic spirituality yet shy away from calling your own experiences… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>Because I want more people to use science to explore the Universe instead of wasting their time on reifications. But that is my value judgment. So I don’t care whether you think it is a good argument or not. What do people get by exploring universe? If we gain a… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: We *are* using the same definition of science. The contradiction exists only in your mind. Not mine. You can continue to flog this dead horse if you so choose. But that is my value judgment. Indeed. Thanks for making that explicit. Value judgements are subjective. As you have mentioned… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Yes, you are right. I did misunderstand your views on science and SD. Despite me saying that I pay attention to detail, I failed to notice this statement of yours: Is an unstated assumption here that somehow I disagree with the need for detail? It wasn’t an unstated assumption. It… Read more »
Rotabharat
5 years 5 months ago
Science and Vedas are two different things! – A) “Veda” [collectively] is a rational ideology and an “Art of Living human/social/moral life”. – B) “Science” [collectively] is a rational fact and a “Medium or Channel to help human to live his/her life.” A) Let’s Analyze A) : When Veda alone… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Thanks. In hindsight, our discussion on homosexuality went off at a tangent due to my inability to articulate clearly my main argument there in the early stages. You are consistent and I hope we have been able to establish “evangelical” (those who like to see their POV gain ground… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@adolf Given statements like this in the article you linked to: According to Uddalaka, there is nothing that is unmixed in the material world. All matter is derived from three primordial elements (dhatus: fire, water and earth) combined in various proportions. Again, each of these elements has in it some… Read more »
einstein
einstein
5 years 5 months ago
@ anir please do not take things so personally.(lighten up this is a friendly discussion) i am on your side. i want the truth and nothing but the truth. You see i studied sciences as chosen subjects at college and totally conform to science and technology as the way forward… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@ anir please do not take things so personally.(lighten up this is a friendly discussion) i am on your side. i want the truth and nothing but the truth. I make a distinction between ideas and people and as such have a thick skin when it comes to what I… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@Indian Agnostic And that exactly is its undoing.The case against naturalized epistemology is well established .The radicals have been shown the door (replacement naturalism ) and moderates are concocting one thing or another to keep the dead horse alive Can you tell you what your idea of naturalism is? I… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Anir Can you tell you what your idea of naturalism is? I see some unstated premises in your statement. metaphysical naturalism as i understand is an oxymoron . its a crude attempt of marrying philosophy and empiricism.The divorce is guaranteed by the recent findings of science itself specially the… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
its a crude attempt of marrying philosophy and empiricism. The divorce is guaranteed by the recent findings of science itself specially the ones highlighted in Why Us? James le Fano Huh? How is empiricism not based on philosophy? What do you think philosophy is? Let me repeat this again. Science… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@IA: Naturalism’s take on Tolle (I have no idea who he is but he seems to be a Western/English translator of Eastern philosophies) was an interesting read. On the one hand, Clark’s liking for the concept mentioned in the link stems from: The revelation isn’t that one encounters one’s true… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
So, Tolle’s claims are merely his own *suppositions* worthy of dismissal but to buttress *their* claims they resort to reliable reports by accomplished meditators? How does Clark verify that the reports are reliable and the meditators are accomplished? I note he omits providing citations to these reports. You are quote… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Not that I care but I want to ask, are you Clark? That would be nice 😉 He isn’t making any absolutist claims about enlightenment. He notes that everyone can have deep personal experiences and people who use science to determine reality, can interpret those experiences within science itself… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Not that I care but I want to ask, are you Clark? That would be nice 😉 No. I’m not Clark. Of course he is not. He is probably clueless on this. He is doing exactly what you say he is doing and that is still only trying to rationalize… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: I definitely don’t mean you when I say that, but there are people like that and Clark’s articles are a response to them – that deep personal experiences have a natural cause. Thanks. Appreciate the differentiation. So, Clark is evangelizing against evangelicals. Trying to figure out right from wrong… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
I am not here to convince people of atheism over theism. That wouldn’t be possible as there is no common ground upon which such a discussion to take place. My intention was to point to out the flawed arguments used against science and atheism. And I haven’t purposefully made any… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

As a result of these discussions I have a better understanding and appreciation of your views. With that I’ll end this. Nice talking to you.

Ditto. Au revoir.

adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago

Come to magic mushroomism. A new ism which promises deep spiritual experiences,of course they are spiritual experiences becuase I state them as spritual ( dont bring your objective measures here as they will be rejected). And more over we will interpret your experiences scientifically.

Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

Was immer du sagst, mein Führer.

adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago

Peace Be Upon You scientifically

Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Kal Bhairav Ji Tolle is one of the few western practitioners of the direct method ( advaita vichara marga) who is respected as a Guru not only in the west but in India too Clark’s treatment of the subject deserves just one credit – that he honestly exposes his… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@IA: Indeed…I actually respect the adherence-to-science component of naturalism. Clark should stick to that. He should stay the hell out of spirituality (and remove links pertaining to that from his website) if he wants to come across as an honest person instead of a foolish thieving plagiarist that he is.… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago

*correction : Why Us? James Le Fanu

http://www.jameslefanu.com/books

einstein
einstein
5 years 5 months ago
Dawkins lost my respect the minute he used a book by Max Jammer to suggest Albert Einstein was an atheist. In that book Einstein stated quite explicitly, “I am not an atheist, and I don’t think I am a Pantheist.” Yet, Dawkins continues to spread this falsehood. He also misuses… Read more »
einstein
einstein
5 years 5 months ago
@anir, if you think carefully about your atheistic temperement (you, richard dawkins, and others)then you will have to conclude that atheism is a blind belief. this is certainly a fact since you do not have any evidence for the non existenxce of god. Which ultimately means you should at the… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

My atheism is the denial of existence of the supernatural. God is just a subset of it.

As to the rest of your comment: Argument from ignorance. Burden of proof.

Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
And before someone points out that my statement sounds like faith, I deny the supernatural in view of lack of evidence. If there is evidence, I’d gladly accept it. That caveat is implicit in the kind of atheism I subscribe as it comes from naturalism. But I suppose that won’t… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@adolf Anir why dont you put your philosophy and logic to practical use of gaining something like stock markets. Is there any logic in denying a unicorn. As far as philosophies go what use is an extensive theory which denies unicorn? It gives no material benefits and is of no… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: But if you are so interested in what my philosophy entails, this is a good sample Appreciate the link. The author (and by extension, you, since you linked to this) seems to disparage non-naturalistic means of spiritual experiences by claiming without proving: The physical becomes the merely physical –… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
My intention was not to show that naturalistic spirituality is superior, but to show that atheists are quite capable of having a fulfilling life. Spirituality is ultimately a value judgement. If you find something beautiful, just go ahead and savor it. My only contention is with making those value judgments… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>How I use my philosophy should be none of your business Ofcourse It is my business to find out the truth. Agniveer states that god exists and I will get peace if i believe in Iswhar. Now you are comming and saying god doesnt exist. So inorder to evaluate why… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Atheism say that there is no entity called god. I want to know how atheism came to conclusion that there is no entity called GOD. Scientifically we havent even proved that there is no other planet in galaxy which can have life. So how do you scientifcally proove that there… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>Why are you misrepresenting science No it absolutely doesn’t make sense to me. It is like some one proclaiming to me that i discovered solution to P = NP? problem without giving any proofs. I am not misrepresenting science. There is nothing in science which is like misrepresentation. My father… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
To quote one of the posters there: …I share your frustration concerning the lack of arguments FOR the atheist position. They do seem to be “piggy-backing” off theistic arguments by refuting them, then asserting atheism as the default position for belief in the existence in deities, and then concluding that… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
of course i knew that from your other posts. I just argue in basic terms just to show that all the arguments and philosophies whatever naturalism or atheism proclaim to propose are already discussed in upanishads. For example uddalaka proposed a similar theory to naturalism ascribing the unexplainable part to… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
no i am not making any assumptions on you or your morality. I didn’t say you did, but others did. But you did make a value judgement on my personal life. To add more how is naturalism different from what uddalaka has said in Chandogya Upanishad? I’d appreciate it if… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>I didn’t say you did, but others did. But you did make a value judgement on my personal life. my personal judgment or any others accusing doesn’t make a damn about your real life. If you think you are so mean that you get disturbed by dog barks let us… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

@adolf:

This may shed further light on the issue.

KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

@adolf:

Atheists do NOT have a proof of God’s non-existence. Anir cannot provide you with one.

KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: For example an idea I come across on this site is that the physical world is not desirable, but a reification is. I just gave you counter-examples: scripturally within SD Krishna’s exhortation to Arjuna is one of the greatest calls to action in this physical world ever. I also… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
I just gave you counter-examples: scripturally within SD Krishna’s exhortation to Arjuna is one of the greatest calls to action in this physical world ever. I also gave you an argument from day-to-day life that indicates that Indians are fully engaged in this earthly realm. I only gave you a… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
>>You didn’t, but adolf did. And others before him by making up ridiculous assumptions about my morals. no i am not making any assumptions on you or your morality. Morality has no meaning to mean.I am just behaving moral way because society punishes. I am here to pursue what is… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Do you deny that seeking the reification called Brahman is an undesirable goal vis-a-vis seeing beauty in the physical world as understood through science? False dichotomy. In my case I will sure experience the latter AND may possibly see that as a manifestation of the former.(I am a mathematician… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
False dichotomy. In my case I will sure experience the latter AND may possibly see that as a manifestation of the former.(I am a mathematician by profession and that is what helps put food on my family’s table. I see no conflict between this vocation and belief in Brahman.) Well,… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Where did I say SD and science *are* compatible in the sense that they provide possible answers to the same question? How do YOU know what purpose SD serves for me? Science/math are precisely the wrong tools to use to analyze/dissect spirituality. In the many thousands of years that… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@KalBhairav For me, they answer different questions. It works for ME. I dont expect it to work for you. Let me repeat – How do YOU know what purpose SD serves for me? I am not interested in what purpose SD serves for you. But when you say science AND… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: But when you say science AND SD evaluate to true, you need to show how. I say science and SD evaluate to true *FOR ME*. Let me repeat *FOR ME*. Why do I need to show YOU anything? In any case, you make your intention clear about how you… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Where did I say SD and science *are* compatible in the sense that they provide possible answers to the same question? How do YOU know what purpose SD serves for me? Then why did you say that it was a false dichotomy? In an AND operation you can’t have two… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Anir: Science vs SD is *not* a false dichotomy. For me, they answer different questions. It works for ME. I dont expect it to work for you. Let me repeat – How do YOU know what purpose SD serves for me? Of course I have a vested interest in seeing… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
@Vajra, After all it was “natural” big bang which made me so lazy, who is to blame? 🙁 In case you are blessed with activeness by the Big Bang 🙂 search for Yog Darshan and Nyay Darshan which contain philosophy of Yog and arguments against naturalism respectively. Thanks for proving… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
If a wise man says that if you travel through this tunnel at the end of tunnel you will find a honey pot,some people who have not tasted honey at all will believe his words and enjoy the honey,some people will not take the words seriously,some people argue that there… Read more »
Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago
@KalBairav That’s an extremely well-written post and forced me to re-evaluate my own stances. I’m still an atheist but I do think I ought to research a bit further into the doctrines of SD; purely for the philosophical and spiritual tenets even if my standing on theology remains unchanged. Whatever… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik: SD is actually quite difficult to pin down exactly and that may explain why atheism does NOT have a very strong case against it. There is no single book/single prophet/one holy place within it. There are as many paths as there are seekers. Take that Islam/Christianity. In any case,… Read more »
Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago
@Vajra “2. How will you define morality in the absence of an ultimate moral entity?” The results of our human attributes of empathy and ethics; which in turn evolved from a primal human desire to ensure a positive environment for the continuation of the species. “3. How do you know… Read more »
Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Kartik “The results of our human attributes of empathy and ethics; which in turn evolved from a primal human desire to ensure a positive environment for the continuation of the species.” Why do humans desire to ensure a positive environment instead of negative? Why do they want to be… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

And in saying that humans have an agency that goes beyond natural causes, you are subscribing to contra-causal free will, something which even most atheists subscribe to and hence is called as atheism’s little god. More on why contra-causal free will is untenable.

Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago

Namaste Anir

a naturalism link must always be read with the plantiga caveat

An evolutionary argument against naturalism P( R/N&E)

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/philosophy/virtual_library/articles/plantinga_alvin/an_evolutionary_argument_against_naturalism.pdf

Dhanyawad

Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

Contra-causal free will can be proved to be untenable even without arguing from naturalism. (The article from Routledge encyclopedia has that argument).

And seriously, Plantinga? Can I take it that you endorse Christian epistemology? Because without the validity of that, Plantinga’s arguments fall apart.

Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

Please educate yourself on contemporary morality and ethics instead of setting up strawman arguments against those who don’t subscribe to your kind of ethics, i.e. deontological ethics. Singer’s practical ethics, which espouses utilitarianism, is a good starting point.

Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Brother Anir I question very terms like “morality” and “ethics” used by naturalists as they believe everything to be the effect of Big Bang including our freewill, emotions, actions etc. Thus apart from our already frozen destiny (since any act of ours has to be an outcome of the… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

As an example of primitiveness of your arguments, you show fatalism (“since any act of ours has to be an outcome of the big bang which we have no control over”) as a counter argument to naturalism. Are you familiar with these arguments against fatalism?

Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago

Anir
As an example of primitiveness of your arguments, you show “Naastikta” as a counter argument to theism 🙂 Are you familiar with arguments of Nyay Darshan against Naastikta?

You can get Nyay Darshan on any Vedic book shop.

SDC
SDC
5 years 5 months ago
Well, you have got to understand one thing and that it takes a lot in terms of time, energy to juggle with diverse subjects like history, comparative religion, religious scriptures, commentaries of different religious experts, etc. We have been doing our bit to fend off the onslaught of religious missions/missionaries… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
I understand that this site’s priorities are concerned with debating the likes of Zakir Naik, but if people here are trying to put down atheism and defend a dharmic worldview, it is only in their interest that they understand the philosophy of science, scientific naturalism and cultural naturalism. Gone are… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Anir if people here are trying to put down atheism and defend a dharmic worldview,it is only in their interest that they understand the philosophy of science, scientific naturalism and cultural naturalism. science has no answers on consciousness and reality yet. To create ‘naturalism’ castles on this shaky ground… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
science has no answers on consciousness and reality yet. To create ‘naturalism’ castles on this shaky ground is itself unscientific. See, this is what I meant. Science is the epistemology of naturalism. In view of that, your statement is a non-sequitur. You presumed my response to be against your argument… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago
Namste Anir See, this is what I meant. Science is the epistemology of naturalism. And that exactly is its undoing.The case against naturalized epistemology is well established .The radicals have been shown the door (replacement naturalism ) and moderates are concocting one thing or another to keep the dead horse… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
Anir why dont you put your philosophy and logic to practical use of gaining something like stock markets. Is there any logic in denying a unicorn. As far as philosophies go what use is an extensive theory which denies unicorn? It gives no material benefits and is of no use… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
This statement got mangled in italics: See, this is what I meant. Science is the epistemology of naturalism. In view of that, your statement is a non-sequitur. Please read it as a response to science has no answers on consciousness and reality yet. To create ‘naturalism’ castles on this shaky… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
As I have said elsewhere on this site, moral philosophy isn’t easy to grasp. The kind of arguments you use seem pretty primitive to me much like how someone saying Vedas justify the caste system would seem primitive to you. You aren’t going to convince atheists like me with arguments… Read more »
Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Anir What I observed from your comments is that blind faith is not the copyright of Jihadis/missionaries alone. Jihadi visitors of this site say the same thing that we are wrong, away from truth, illogical etc. They also give the link of Quran and say it is the truth… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago
That’s quite a few strawmen arguments you put in there. You made a number a false assumptions: 1. That I said your logic is primitive. 2. That I do not use my own logic. 3. That my original reply to you was about refuting this site stands for. 4. That… Read more »
Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Anir 1. Please replace “logic” by “arguments” in my previous post and read that again! 2. Of course you dont! Please point out a single logic you gave in your entire discussion. 3. You are free to believe any X, Y, or Z to be my basis! It will be… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 5 months ago

If you are lazy enough to even google the terms you don’t understand, that’s not my problem. I’m under no obligation to regurgitate arguments which are readily available on the Internet. If you want to do the same, I’m not going to complain.

Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago

Anir
After all it was “natural” big bang which made me so lazy, who is to blame? 🙁

In case you are blessed with activeness by the Big Bang 🙂 search for Yog Darshan and Nyay Darshan which contain philosophy of Yog and arguments against naturalism respectively.

Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago

For some reason all my quotations disappeared when I posted the comment! I hope you’ll be able to figure out which parts of your comment I was addressing!

Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago
@Pratap <> Yes science has limitations. There are questions that science is yet to answer. But the difference is that whereas science recognizes its limits and constantly changes to adapt to new discoveries, religion claims to have objective answers to questions that are equally beyond its realm of knowledge. Also,… Read more »
Pratap
Pratap
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik What sort of evidence of God you want to convince yourself? My simple assertion was that it is a flawed thinking that just because you cannot prove something, it does not exist! That is NOT at all the thinking of a “rational” mind. How Science works: Step 1: First… Read more »
Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago
Please don’t call an ultra-right wing conservative propaganda machine like Fox News an ‘atheist/rational’ channel! They once had a debate regarding whether or not Obama’s reference to atheists in his inaugural speech (“We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, of Jews and Hindus, and non-believers”) was ‘offensive to American… Read more »
Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Brother Kartik and all Brothers With no intention of interfering the discussion between Brother Kartik and Brother Pratap, I would like to share the logic with you all which made me believe in some creator ——-As for what kind of evidence I want for the existence of god or… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik: …whereas science recognizes its limits and constantly changes to adapt to new discoveries, religion claims to have objective answers to questions that are equally beyond its realm of knowledge.. Same old same old. The Vedas are NOT scientific treatises. The Vedas dont state “The force of gravitation of earth… Read more »
KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

Didnt close the a href tag…but you can get the message.

KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik: Atheism vs theism debate is *mostly* pointless. Yet let me try to address some of the points you raise (all of which seem to be straight out of The God Delusion I might add.) At a philosophical level, science suffers from a certain type of unresolvable dogma too. This… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago

Namaste Kal Bhairav Ji

an absolute delight to read this articulate response from you !

KalBhairav
KalBhairav
5 years 5 months ago

Well, TY Indian Agnostic! But I gotta say…the atheists DO have excellent arguments on their side too. That makes debating with them quite a challenge. Yet it is a much more pleasurable experience than debating the Muslim lot.

Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 5 months ago
couldn’t agree more! Albeit, atheists also come in as many shades as the usual muslim lot. the “lack of belief” definition of atheism is so broad that it can accommodate a a person who lacks the spirit of rational enquiry on one hand to the one who has walked the… Read more »
Kartik
Kartik
5 years 5 months ago
Despite the author’s rant against Christians and Muslims, his own ideologies come across as just as dogmatic. To start with; Life began at the most primordial level when unicellular organisms starting replicating themselves millions of years ago. Nervous systems advanced to deal with the advancement in the size and complexity… Read more »
adolf
adolf
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik Your questioning of god is good. Even in vedas there are quotes which question even the existance of god. In a dialouge with yajnavalkya gargi argued what is beyond the brahman and was silenced just becauase people are not ready to accept the god beyond the ultimate god hiranyagarbha.… Read more »
pratap
pratap
5 years 5 months ago
@Kartik My friend you are judging everything through the lens of SCIENCE. Please appreciate this fact that SCIENCE HAS LIMITATIONS, there are phenomenons not yet explained by science BUT that does not make them incorrect. The problem with people “infatuated” by Modern Science is that they simply trash everything NOT… Read more »
Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago

Kartik
Helpful links, first on Vedic philosophy and second on caste system in Hinduism

http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/

http://agniveer.com/888/caste-vedas/

Vajra
Vajra
5 years 5 months ago
Namaste Kartik ———–Despite the author’s rant against Christians and Muslims, his own ideologies come across as just as dogmatic.———- Christianity and Islam are criticized here based on their beliefs in a moody God and fixed destiny of souls. It has nothing to do with science. ———–Life began at the most… Read more »
einstein
einstein
5 years 7 months ago

you did deny existence of a causative agent, oh unless you arent atheist .

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

Stop putting words into my mouth. Go back and read my comments. I never denied that the Universe had a causative agent. What I did deny was a supernatural causative agent.

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago

@Anir : “Supernatural causative agent ” you don’t deny it but you wont have any admiration for that agent . no doubt “Scientific” Atheists are foolishly illogical.

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

What? Please go back and read my previous response again.

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago

Sorry bro.. my bad..

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago

I think i know what your respond will be, lets see whether i know your thought process before hand 🙂

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago

@Einstein : i went through the chain of discussions
for sure Knowledge is power..
Bro.. may the search for truth continue.

Om Tat Sat

einstein
einstein
5 years 7 months ago
this argument is circular. again repeating same old same old. so who was the catalyst behind the big bang?? you say it was pink unicorn, the mature intellectuals say an entity that is called god , muslims call it allah, so whatt if you wanna call him a unicorn, the… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

When did I deny a causative agent? And as you said, I will call it what I want.

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
Please go through my second last reply (December 4, 2010 at 12:00 AM) again. I asked you, why do you believe that there is no maker of universe when we see nothing in this world as without maker? Firstly, I never said that I do not believe that there is… Read more »
Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago

Anir
Brother, I just want to know, do you believe in any entity which is controlling and managing this causal chain? Do you see any purpose behind this universe (of course, if you dont believe in a conscious entity as maker/manager of causal chain, you wont agree with the purpose).

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

No, I do not believe that some entity is controlling the causal chain. There is no evidence for that.

As to the purpose of the Universe, I do not know. Knowing about the causative agent of the Universe may answer that question for me.

Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir This is what I was saying. Causal chain is seen in every process. Your process of writing comment itself has causal chain. Some force is being exerted on the keys of keyboard of your computer and comment is the result. I agree. But who is the one exerting force… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
What causes a force to be exerted on the keyboard? Me. What caused me? Evolution. What caused evolution? The Big Bang. There is evidence till this point. What caused the Big Bang? Here is where we differ. You think the evidence points to Ishwar. I think it points to the… Read more »
Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir Brother, after this you will not have anything to say! I am stopping myself here from giving arguments in support of theism for now. Now I am going by your theory. I am also the result of Big Bang and whatever I am writing is again completely “natural” and… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

First understand what a naturalistic fallacy actually means and then you will understand what is good or bad and how it is related to the word natural that are ever so fond of putting in quotes.

dragunov
dragunov
5 years 7 months ago

seriously mate, all your questions are answered on this website if you actually look for it rather than make angry comments.

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

Then enlighten me. Take my arguments and give the links on this website that answer them.

PS: THIS IS ANGRY. This is not. Don’t make assumptions about my state of mind.

dragunov
dragunov
5 years 7 months ago
@ anir, 1. Vedic knowledge is not as complete as the knowledge given by science. 2. Vedic knowledge is not scientific going by the definition of science. 3. Belief in the Vedas as an infallible source of knowledge is dogmatic because it is not evidence based, but rather it is… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
how do you know? 1. Vedas can’t even explain something like why the Sun shines. They can’t tell how important bacteria are in the cycle of life. I could give a litany of such things, but I think you get the point. 2. Did you even read my previous comments?… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
“science reveals how beautifully life is interconnected on Earth” Do you really believe that or it jsut on paper and formulae, have you experienced the connecetion, when you say everthing does it include you, if yes, what you you mean by your identity and if no are you not included… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : Now that its clear you are an atheist and your intellect has no spiritual bent lets see… “Is it so hard for you to accept that I see beauty in life when looked through the lens of science” now if i say that “Is it so hard for… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
Now that its clear you are an atheist and your intellect has no spiritual bent lets see… I wonder if you had even read what I had linked to. “Is it so hard for you to accept that I experience beauty in life when looked through the lens of Vedic… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : you are right.. i have a difficulty to understand what you are trying to portray. if there are a thousand people who have similar experience by imbibing the same knowledge source, then it does imply that already a proven science, i think its you who cannot differentiate between… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
if there are a thousand people who have similar experience by imbibing the same knowledge source, then it does imply that already a proven science, Do you even evaluate what your line of reasoning implies? If the criteria for saying that something is science is the number of people who… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : i think you are a person who does not understand logic and cannot infer things. when you compare veda with moder science and in that context ask a question that veda does not tell me how the sun shines, you seriously have something going wrong in your head.… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
i think you are a person who does not understand logic and cannot infer things. when you compare veda with moder science and in that context ask a question that veda does not tell me how the sun shines, you seriously have something going wrong in your head. i think… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : “Of course it will. When you have evidence generated by the scientific method.” i think you did not get the intention of why i put the question to which you gave this answer.I meant its a fact, if science is not aware of that fact, it does not… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

Fine, make up your own facts. But don’t misuse the word “science”. That is all I’m saying.

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
Actually you are right, its would not be science,i mistakenly expanded the horizon of the term “Science” to include AtmaGnyan and was unknowingly degrading the latter by referring it with the term that applies only in the material aspect of the universe. And yes Vedas are infallible wrt AtmaGnyan and… Read more »
ash51
ash51
5 years 7 months ago
act by historical/archeological evidences.india was happy even before the introduction vedas.we are now born and brought up with concepts of god and religion by our parents.our ancesters were existing and lived happily without the concepts god and religion in prehistoric india 6000 years back.remove your religious goggles and wear scientific… Read more »
Bachhraj
Bachhraj
5 years 7 months ago

@Ash/ Anir: Are you Jain? Only Jain philosophy is most scientific and has concepts that modern science agrees to.

Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

No I’m not Jain. And if you read my previous comments you will see what is required for something to be said to agree with science.

आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@ash51 : Why dont you refute the article above with logic ,rather than excuses?! dont know what you know by the introduction of the Veda. .Veda is not about Religion(it just shows you have no clue about veda, may be you are judging veda with the likes of other contemporary… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
Can you please elaborate more on this “knowledge” of the Vedas? I am a very inquisitive person and love knowing about nature. Can the Vedas tell me why the Sun shines? How magnets work? Why is it that human genome is riddled with corpses of viral DNA? And what exactly… Read more »
Joona
Joona
3 years 6 months ago
Anir,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Mr. MLECCHA……………………………… I know you are some kind of Muslim boy who trying to discuss Atheism by using a Hindu Name…………. GO to Hell…………..If you Dont belive in Vedas den dont corrupt Hinduism………. make your own religion by ur stuuuuuuupid mind but by law…………THOSE WHO HATE HINDUISM CANT LEAVE… Read more »
Joona
Joona
3 years 6 months ago
tHE PREVIOUS COMMENT IS A LITTLE MISTAKE Anir,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Mr. MLECCHA……………………………… I know you are some kind of Muslim boy who trying to discuss Atheism by using a Hindu Name…………. GO to Hell…………..If you Dont belive in Vedas den dont corrupt Hinduism………. make your own religion by ur stuuuuuuupid mind but… Read more »
Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
Namaste Anir Please clarify your beliefs. Do you believe in God? If yes/no, why/why not? You may have problems with the claims of Vedic followers but why getting so angry on Vedas? Einstein was greatest scientist, but could not manage to take care of his wives properly! Does that mean… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
Do I believe in god? No. And that includes all classes of god – the god who answers prayers, the judgmental god, the Brahman of the Advaita Vedanta, the entity who manages affairs, the supreme power and any other form which is not naturalistic. If you want to resolve this… Read more »
Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir I agree that claims of blind followers of any book regarding science and knowledge contained in it are as dangerous as the claims of blind followers of science about science itself! You did not understand my question Brother. I asked, when you have not read Vedas and claimed that… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
And please correct yourself, if you want to know about Evolution proposed by Darwin (actually no term in science is permanent as their meanings/interpretations keep on changing every time), you have to read Origin of Species definitely. I *stand* by my assertion. If Darwin’s words are misinterpreted, they can easily… Read more »
Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir Namaste Since you dont believe in God, please share with us your views on how the universe (including everything which is called natural) came into being? Also, while answering this by “natural laws”, please give an example of any object which exists but does not need a creator. Remember,… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

If everything needs a creator, who created the creator?

Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir I have written somewhere else that there is no cause to the ultimate cause. Creation is required for the entities which are constituted by smaller units or in other words, which need adjoining of matter/energy. But things like energy/smallest particle, which can be considered as smallest form of matter… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago

The actual answer? I don’t know. I can tell you the causal chain till the Big Bang, but not beyond that, I’m as clueless as anybody else. But I believe that beyond the Big Bang, there is The Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Arya
Arya
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir Please go through my second last reply (December 4, 2010 at 12:00 AM) again. I asked you, why do you believe that there is no maker of universe when we see nothing in this world as without maker? Please take my question in the light of my last reply.… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : if you love knowing about nature then you are at the wrong place and asking the wrong questions, I think you take me as a person who does not believe in science and its achievements, that is not the case. BTW the bing bang there had already been… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
Science cannot explain consciousness, but neither can the Vedas. Whatever claims they make are untestable and sometimes unfalsifiable. It makes as much sense to say that Vedas can explain consciousness as saying that The Invisible Pink Unicorn can explain everything. Science is at least humble in accepting that it can’t… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : Bro when i said that science and veda go hand in hand i meant materialistically and spiritually respectively. Veda themselves do not proclaim to be or supernatural origin ( its their infallible nature that gives them this status) can science explain the Turya state? Can you simulate the… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
You miss the point of my arguments and go on to make more claims which lack any sort of evidence. Let me try to put the crux of my argument in a more crude form: Of course science cannot explain samadhi or chakras or whatever. You know what else science… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
@Anir : your tunnel vision amazes me.(may be not!) the diseases that exist in the modern wold are the result of the human behavior itself, if life is lived as per the tenets of the veda there would be no disease, I did not insult science, having a scientific out… Read more »
Anir
Anir
5 years 7 months ago
“the diseases that exist in the modern wold are the result of the human behavior itself” Did you Vedic knowledge tell you about that? Bacteria would love to differ with that view. You seem to think humans have some special abilities and have brought about diseases upon themselves (some yes,… Read more »
आर्यव्रतस्थ
आर्यव्रतस्थ
5 years 7 months ago
i said that if vedas are followed to the core, there will be no disease in the society, if the people died in vedic society of disease, how would you claim that they followed the veda? “science reveals how beautifully life is interconnected on Earth” Do you really believe that… Read more »
Vijay
Vijay
5 years 9 months ago
//God of Bible making Light first and then creating Sun and Stars!// Sorry to burst your “scientific” bubble, but light existed before Suns or Stars were formed. Look up “cosmic background radiation”. It also indicates that you are no more “scientific” than the Muslims or Christians. You are just another… Read more »
108Eternal
108Eternal
5 years 9 months ago

Namaste brother.

You can say evolution has been proven, but only if you’re willing to disregard the massive gaps and holes in the theory.

It’s a theory, and by no means fact.

Vijay
Vijay
5 years 8 months ago
Evolution is as much a theory as theory of gravitation. The normal issue raised against theory of evolution is that we don’t have ALL the fossils that record EACH species that evolved. Asking for such evidence is naive – fossils are really difficult to form and to expect fossils for… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Indian Agnostic
5 years 8 months ago
@Vijay the theory of evolution and the theories of gravity are not comparable. when newtonian theory failed , general relativity took over to explain the mercury anamoly. The theory of evolution on the other hand..has a strong allergy to be rechristened..(thanks to it’s history of church versus science wars) ..it… Read more »
abhijeet4288
abhijeet4288
5 years 10 months ago
Swami Vivekananda (1863-1902), Indian spiritualist On 9/11/1893 at World Parliament of Religions, Chicago he said to the gathering “We who had come from the east have sat here day after day and have been told in a patronizing way that we ought to accept Christianity because Christian nations are the… Read more »
Jagdish
Jagdish
6 years 1 month ago
orpotto
orpotto
6 years 1 month ago

do god has ability of changing laws of nature?like i am at a risk..i m a devoted beliver now can god change natural law for me??what if i dont pray to him,will he give me favour?or he is a attention seeker from devotees?

Angela
Angela
6 years 1 month ago
"Now if ‘I’ is imperishable," But the "I" is perishable. Death destroys the "I", modifying the brain changes the "I", amnesia changes the "I" radically "who am I?". Drinking coffee a stimulant, seems to make the "I" more alert, being over fed makes the "I" sleepy, hurting the body makes… Read more »
Arya
Arya
6 years 1 month ago
@Angela Morality comes with evolution! Can you prove morality without the concept of a perfect moral being? How can you say morality level has increased or decreased if you dont have an ultimate moral benchmark? And forget about high or low morality, how will you define morality? If one kills… Read more »
Kesireddy Sridhar
Kesireddy Sridhar
6 years 1 month ago
@Angela You hold a pen in your hand and refer to it as "This is my pen". (Pen is different and foriegn to you) But, you also point out various parts of your physical body and say as "This is my head, These are my hands, eyes and legs etc".… Read more »
agniveer
6 years 1 month ago
1. How do you know death destroys 'I'? Do you even know what 'I' is, as per modern innovations that you call science? 2. Why should 'I' feel pain and pleasure if I is nothing but inert matter combined in specific manner? 3. Why did body evolve in certain manner?… Read more »
sandeep pandey
sandeep pandey
6 years 1 month ago

very good article

righteousness
righteousness
6 years 1 month ago
these knowledge are present in more then one's mothr tongue but however they are not as acurate as it is in the original language. for example some english words cant be repllaced with another single word in japanese…and so on… mean while the puranas have many interpretations. usually people are… Read more »
Arjun Tuteja
Arjun Tuteja
6 years 1 month ago

Please explain why " This knowledge should not be in a vernacular language".

Thanks

Arya
Arya
6 years 1 month ago

@Arjun
Namaste bhai,
It is because of equality for all.

dhayal
dhayal
6 years 1 month ago

I confess that Ishwar is always exist with you. My best wishes and support for establishment of Vedic foundations to The Agniveer.

agniveer
6 years 1 month ago

Let us establish the Vedic foundations first.

Dharma
Dharma
6 years 1 month ago

When you will analyse puranas? They are trash like Islam and Christianity.

Harsh
Harsh
6 years 1 month ago

May God give light to you Dharma. To understand Puranas – you need to have understanding of Vedas. If you dont have that – you can misinterpret them.

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