We are pleased to share a short Hindi tract on ‘Why rebirth is necessary’ as per Hinduism and Islam apart from rational belief on Ishwar or God or Allah. These have prepared for easy circulation through printing 2 A4 size sheets. We appeal to all to download, read, print and circulate as many copies of this tract as possible. Let us foster Hindu-Muslim solidarity through promotion of these common themes.

Rebirth, Hinduism and Islam

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

173 COMMENTS

  1. and for you kind information, most of my comments are based on the above conversations, i’ve given my conclusion after reading all above, may be you need to read all, that you have’nt. See what was the morality of you Filthy prophet !

  2. I have written an essay in question/answer form, you can say that..you poor muslim with poor moral values !!!
    Its not adultery for which one needs to provide 4 witnesses you FOOL! Get your facts right, my all claims and facts are right here ! It’s the rape of a woman, for which the victim-woman should provide 4 male witnesses…just click on this youtube link..and listen what that mullah is saying is 100% true islam, which that young guy is not willing to accept,because he doesn’t know quran well !! Beacuase he’s a good human being and is on denial that Quran can be so inhuman for a rape victim !!!!my facts are clear, but your mind is not clear, because of hypocisy !!

  3. And then you muslims talk about equal rights of men and women in Islam.
    Saying things that a muslim should consider her mothers feet as heaven, and claiming that this is the respect of women in Islam, wont fool the world anymore ! These are very basic things, that everybody knows , that they should do. There is only more basic law of morality, not to cheat your wives, and being loyal to them, not thinking to get physical with other women, if you are married !!
    Allah should know this if he is God , why did allah allow muslim men to have uncountable slave girls ?? What the hell is this ?? Is this what you call God ????
    Just talk about the rights of a wife !!! Half intelligence and half witness ! Also, a rape victim should present 4 male witnesses, otherwise that woman should herself be guilty if she fails to do that, Brilliant Justice of God’s divine law –Sharia !! And if there were only 3 men who were witness of a rape, and plus a woman, that would be 3 and a half !! This also wont work, because Allah needs four witnesses, as this woman would be considered as only a half witness……..Such a divine religion, full of equality !!! This was to give muslim men privilege to rape women and get away very easily, infact, ALWAYS, because 4 male witnesses will never be available for a rape !!
    ———– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry7tOEY1Zww —————
    Muhammad knew, making Sex available for Arab Men will win him many wars, because for Sex Hungary Arabs, Sex was the biggest incentive !!
    All the things are in favour of muslim men, when it comes to wives and their husbands.
    Men can have N number of slave girls and the wives don’t have any right to stop these husbands, they have to tolerate this hurt deep inside their hearts..of their husbands playing with other women in the same house !!
    *****************************———————******************************

    • Poor Ashish.. In his hate filled world.. He is so confused that he is not able differentiate things now..He is jumping conversation or his mind is full incomprehensible information.. He is not able control himself, He is asking question and answering himself. For example “You need four people to witness Adultery to convict any individual of Adultery which is punishable by stoning with Rape. Like this all opinions are confused or better word Adulterated. I would ask you slow down talk about one topic if you seek truth.. If you want blabber continue what your doing…

  4. , The Great God –Allah is taking care of the rights of women so nicely !! Allah takes care of the feelings of the wives of these muslim men !! Great God !
    Also, beautiful adolescent boys will be available in heaven for muslim men, and not for muslim women !! hahaha.. great guy Allah !! Sex sex sex and sex ! Just like wine , Gay sex is also haram on earth, but its OK to have sex with young beautiful boys in heaven !!!! Good going Allah !
    Truth is he wanted to create a strong army of filthy and animal like Muslim men to gain power, that’s why wine was made haram to all muslims, Muhammad wanted their complete concentration and energy in the battle field,that’s why alcohol was haram, but he had to give women to his sex-hungary ARAB ARMY to motivate them to fight for him, otherwise nobody would have fought for Muhammad.That’s why there are less rights for women in Islam, because Muhammad had to please his aggressive and filthy Arab Men to attract them to him and to fight for him for the hunt for power ! That’s why women were given such a low position in Islam. Saying that most of the sufferers in Hell are women, saying that women have half Intelligence that of a man, And saying this shit to women, Allah has said in Quran that since the witness of a woman is half , it is a proof that Allah also thinks that a woman has a half brain !!
    And moreover, giving these vague explanations by Abdullah, that women have to do a lot of work in a family, she has many roles to play in daily life, so she has stress and cant concentrate properly on other things.. so that’s why Allah meant that a woman has a half brain !! What a logic !!! Even my mother led a stressful life, raising me, doing household work, she had to leave her school teacher job , due to stress in the family, even then I was educated by her, and I know about her intellect !
    This was just to fill fear in hearts of muslim women, so that they don’t question/oppose their filthy lustful and disloyal sex hungary husbands. Bravo !! Allah ! And then you muslims…

  5. What about Muhammad marrying his own daughter-in-law Zainab ? Here also he said that he has just gotten a revelation from Allah to marry Zainab !! Wow ! Muhammad gets everywoman he wishes ! Saying that Zaid wasn’t his real son, so it wasn’t incest sex that Muhammad married his own daughter-in-law !!
    So I would like to ask to all muslims, suppose a muslim boy is raised by a woman other than her real mother, means his step mother, from the age of 2 to 20 ! And one day, after reading and understanding the Quran and All Hadiths, that boys’s hidden lust for that woman suddenly raises up ? So would your Allah permit that boy to have sex with that lady ? Who is not his real mother ? Just like muhammad married(Just for sex) Zainab ? Because he might have thought after some time ,that this woman has nice assets, why the hell I married my adopted son to her, I should have kept her for myself only !! OK, but everything was easy for Muhammad, he just got a new revelation from Allah, played the trick, and after this episode, Adoption of children was suddenly abolished, hahahaha.. Adoption is humanity !! and not incest and sex with a 9 yr old girl child and not murdering men and having sex with their women at the very same day !!!!!!!!

    4) Sex in Heaven: Beautiful houris will be available for muslims, who will always remain virgins, no matter how many times muslim men have sex with them !! Clap for Allah !! Great God !
    Rivers of wine and milk are there for muslim men ! Why wine and milk ?? Because there was scarcity of both in Arabia that time, the things which were not possible for normal people to get in Arabia at the time of Muhammad are available in Heaven, this clearly shows that Islam was made exclusively for Arabic people. Anyways, milk is ok, but Wine ? On earth, wine is haram and in Heaven its good to have wine ? What a hypocrisy !! On earth also, the wives of muslim men had to bear the agony of their men having sex with other women(slaves & concubines) and here in Heaven also , The Great God –Allah is taking…

  6. Saying its OK in Quran to have Concubines and slave girls, is so absurd and filthy, only a filthy mind can allow such a practice.
    Saying that after a war, 20% of the captured women belonged to Muhammad ( the sexist), doesn’t seem shameful to muslims.
    After beheading the husband and other family members of Safiyah, Muhammad slept with her at the same evening, and saying that he wanted to do Good to such women..is OK with Muslims!! How disgusting it is, she never came out of the trauma , of death of her husband and other family members..and this Prophet of muslims ( the pious & great man ) is having sex with her in a few hours after beheading her husband !! what a great human being he was..The whole Humanity should salute him !!
    Saying that he married her, proves him a great man…….but first he had sex with her the very same day !! She must have been in Trauma !……..Yes Mo married safiyah later, because she was extremely beautiful , only because her beauty..not to rehabilitate her !!! and That too was told to him , an infidel girl has been captured, and is extremely beautiful, then he demanded that girl from one of his arab armyman, only when he came to know about her beauty !!
    And what about those hundereds of girls… whom Mo did not marry..and just tasted them and distributed them as SEX-OBJECTS to his people ???
    So capturing non-muslim girls in a war, having sex(RAPE) with them the very same day when their husbands were beheaded..keeping some good ones with you and selling the rest of the women in the slave-market was and is not DISGUSTING for Muhammad and Zakir Naik respectively !!! And then Zakir Naik says on his peace tv, that Muslims have a great Moral character than Hindus.

  7. 3) Sex-slavery: Abdullah’s Guru, Zakir Naik is in favour of sex-slavery, oh man !! What a filthy animal he is. He said at that time , it was ok to have sex-slaves in Arabia, so I’am(Zakir Naik) in favour of Sex-slavery and do not condemn it, <<<That’s what he meant !! Shameful fellow.
    Then you muslims talk about Morality ????????????
    Keeping non-muslim girls as sex-slaves is INHUMAN , and WAS INHUMAN at the time of Muhammad too !! It was going on in many parts of world, doesn’t mean it is OK to have women as sex-slaves, Muhammad should have protest against Sex-slavery instead of keeping women as slaves, if he was the TRUE messenger of GOD, which he was not ! That guy didn’t have any Moral character. It was Chhatrapati Shivaji who treated women , other than his wives, as his mothers !! Zakir Naik must be knowing about Shivaji, because he’s also a Marathi.
    A 17 yr old beautiful muslim girl was presented to Shivaji once, when she arrived in front of him, he said, if my mother was this much beautiful like you, I would have been a very Handsome man. Then he didn’t touch that girl, let her go without any problem from his empire.
    This is the character of a real man !!
    The same thing was taught by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, that: one should treat other women as their sisters and mothers, apart from his wife. And That’s how , one becomes a Saint Soldier, and not by marrying and having sex with a 9yr old child, who used to play with dolls.
    Now what muslims will do after reading this, they will post a verse from Quran or Hadith, saying the similar thing, that one should not put bad sight on other women ..bla bla bla…. That’s true, something like this is written in their texts, but such kind of rules are to be applicable for the Islamic world only, means a married muslim man shouldn’t be thinking about sex with OTHER MUSLIM WOMEN. This is their reality, being married and doing sex outside marriage(forcibly with non muslim girls) is ok with Allah ! wow ! Nice moral teaching allah has given to his disciples.
    Saying…

  8. Just marry your younger sister or daughter who is 9 yrs old to a 45 or 55 yr old sex hungary filthy man then.
    Abdullah’s Guru, Zakir Naik said on peace tv that, if his daughter is 13 and she thinks that an old aged guy is a pious man, he doesn’t have any problem marrying her with him. Ask Zakir Naik, a 13yr old is a child becomes a Woman when menstruation starts? , she doesn’t understand marriage, and wether a man is pious or filthy, because she’s a kid, moreover sex is not meant for a 13yr old child, its so Immoral to say a girl child becomes a woman with the advent of menstruation.
    Like Vajra said, instead of promoting girl childs marriage to pedophile men, Muhammad should have protested against it, because he was sent by Allah.
    Mo told to Ayesha’s parents that he got a revelation from Allah that he should marry Ayesha, hahaha, he just wanted to fullfil his lust with Ayesha.
    Zakir Naik also said on peace tv in this particular episode that “ If ..Mian-biwi raazi to kya karega kaazi !!! Such a disgusting fellow, he didn’t have any better words when a young man started the topic of child marriage with him. Giving this “Mian-biwi” logic is so filthy, because they both were talking about the marriage of a 13yr old girl child with a 112 yr old muslim-man in Somalia, and then these muslims talk about Morality in Quran and Hadiths !! This is your morality ??? What Muhammad did, having sex with a 9 yr old ? Disgusting!

  9. @Vajra
    Dear Vajra
    I enjoyed your debate with Abdullah. Both of you are talented debaters.
    It would have been great if we had an English translation of Vedas by a learned Arya Samaji and not from an English man or any hindu from Sanatam Dharma.
    Abdullah and other muslims should undertand one fact, that Hinduism is based on vedas only, and not any other books.
    Those other books were written later, in forms of stories, to spread the meaning of vedas in story form, that’s not the Real Hinduism !
    There’s no Lord Shiva sitting on any mountain, no Brahma sitting on a flower , which is hanging in the Space.
    No hanuman and no Ganesha with head of an elephant. The word Ganesha is used in Vedas to show an “Intellectual” or “Buddhimaan”, thats not the real Ganesha (the idol with elephant’s head). Because Arya Samaj is totally based on all 4 vedas only, and vedas do not propogate Idol-Worship. So one can not say that “Ganesha” of vedas is the same Ganesha of hindu idol worship. Vedas are against any Idol-Worship.
    This man Abdullah is talented, but is in evil hands of his master Zakir Nair who is a terrorist !
    1) In 2012, its laughable to say that Muhammad flew on a donkey who had wings , and calling it a miracle, it seems like the thinking of an Arabian Adventure Movie made in Hollywood, where you can see people flying on a Carpet or “Kaaleen”, how disgusting !!, Only a donkey will believe in this rubbish story !!
    2) Muhammad married Ayesha when she was 6 and had sex with her when she was 9. Saying that a girl(girl-child) becomes a “Woman” when she starts with her menstruation is so unscientific and FILTHY ! I think all the pedophiles must be attracted towards Islam, for sure !
    A 9 yr old is a CHILD, for Godsake !!! She doesn’t understand what marriage is, don’t give absurd reasons to justify sex of Muhammad with a child, That this was normal at that time in Arabia. Dude, Gods rule should be the same every where and every time !! If it changes with time, then they cant be the words of God at all. Just…

  10. Dear kris, the statements made by you proves that you are not at all aware about the theory of karma and rebirth.
    Atma has some character. We get a body that best suits the character of atma. However by geting knowledge of gud and bad, and by practing the good one will be able to reach a state called moskhya.
    Birth of a person at some place, in some family, in some situation is what the result of karma of past life. In the present life the person should indulge in good activities to get better way of life.
    If a girl is raped, it does not mean its result of karma of past life, result of past life is declared when she got body of a girl at the time of her birth in her mother.
    She was raped because of the karma of the rapist in the present life. The rapist will get punishment accordingly.
    Now the karma of the girl in present life will decide her future, it wont be affected at all by the karma of other persons.
    God has made the law, tat is not controlling what we do and how. At the end of this life, the law created by tat judges our karma, and awards suitable judgement.
    Now come to your examples, jews of that time got the birth in jews family because of their karma of past life. Hitler made them suffered. Its karma of hitler for which he must had been punished by law of god, the jews who were bein suffered, did some or other activities during that time. The suffering was not because of their karma of past life, but the activities they did during their life must had been the deciding factors for their present life.

  11. Wow quite a debate going on between Hindus and Muslims concerning the afterlife. I’m a Hindu myself (a devout one and a near conservative one too). But, as far as I am concerned, there is NO SUCH THING as a true religion, whether we LIKE IT or NOT. Every religion has its share of truth and corruption, positivity and negativity, and modern and primitive people. Sure many of you want to disagree with that and still consider other people being inferior to you. But, LOOK AROUND YOU, READ HISTORY, GO ON YOUTUBE, and RESEARCH because you’ll discover the point that I am trying to make here. And, the point that I am trying to make is that there is once again NO SUCH THING as a perfect culture, ethnic group, or religious faith. In the western hemisphere, if Jews, Muslims, Christians, Baha’is, and Zoroastrians embrace resurrection, then that is still their choice. Now in the eastern part of the world, if Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, and Taoists believe in reincarnation, then that is still their choice too.

    However, our Vedas does indeed teach us to respect other faiths, to see the good in them, and to even explore and reason things because THE BOTTOMLINE is that there is ONLY One God and God himself is ONE. Yes, I’m sure there are a few right-wing Indians that may not agree with me on how I’m interpreting Vedic verses on tolerance for others. BUT LOOK, I KNOW what I am reading and I AM AWARE of what it is saying. I mean, just think about it, in the beginning God never intended anyone to be Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Christian, Sikh and so forth just like he never intended anyone to be Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, Spanish, Indian, etc. It was nature, geological changes, and our own biased minds that ended up dividing this world. Sure there are stories of earlier Christians, Jews, and Muslims embracing transmigration. But that was only because European and Middle Eastern philosophers were simply fascinated and inspired with the idea. So, they decided to include that in their writings.

    On the…

    • On the other hand, that doctrine was not a vedic concept either among ancient Aryans of India. In regards to that, sure Agniveer states that has been British propaganda to gain Hindu converts to Christianity. But that is actually not the case. It was the ancient Indian Sramana people that developed reincarnation since they wanted to know why the problem of evil exists. The Sramanas were originally a non-vedic group, from which Buddhism and Jainism came from. The Sramanas had a tendency to be atheists, agnostic, or to worship nature. They never believed in a creator deity. Modern day Hinduism developed from a combination of the ancient Vedic religion and Sramana religion. Even as a Hindu, I have to admit that I discovered that there are just as many arguments against reincarnation in the scientific field as there are arguments favoring the doctrine after doing my own research. Thus, I rather not take the doctrine seriously. I personally believe that if you’re religious and do good deeds, then heaven will be open for you. But, if you’re not religious and engage in horrible deeds, then you will not simply not go there. Since the concept of eternal hell is also a bit harsh, I’m sure that God does think of a way to handle the circumstances of the unjust people that didn’t lead proper and religious lives. That’s why there are spirits that are roaming around this world and across the universe.

      Sure reincarnationists think that one life is never enough to gain spiritual advancement. If that is really true, then why are the majority of people and the majority of reincarnationists ALWAYS INTENTIONAL about not leading religious lives? Seventy percent of people on this planet believe in God and even among thirty percent of those that don’t believe in him still either question his existence, believe in some sort of spirituality, or were former believers of God themselves. Even in my own family, I notice that some of my relatives that embrace transmigration believe that they will of course live many lives after…

      • …they die. Therefore, they don’t want to “put in the effort” of being too religious since they think that no matter hard they try, they still think that they will have to live and die again and again. How dumb! Past life regression is so ridiculous too because there are other explanations such as multiple personality disorder, inheriting memories from our distant ancestors (even if they were from different nationalities), being led by spirits (by hypnosis or by dreams, visions, nightmares, etc), spiritual possession (it has happened to those under hypnosis), being under the control of the hypnotists questions and demands, and so on.

        And I know for sure that science does not fully agree with resurrection either because how can you even bring back a dead person to life after his or her body has turned into dust and has faded away or has been eaten up by insects. That doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t seem possible for someone to be raised immortally from the dead after his or her remains have vanished six feet under. How can there be a resurrection of all the disgusting things like snakes, insects, mold, flies, and all those filthy things. That is absurd and delusional. It’s not in people’s and animal’s nature to live forever. The flesh cannot be eternal. So does resurrection or reincarnation happen? WE DON’T KNOW! That’s why I think critically and try to look beyond my horizons instead of embracing those doctrines.

      • By the way, if someone were to come rob my house and kill everyone that I love, of course people would argue that I must have done bad things in a past life. But that does not mean that it is fine for the perpetrator to come and do that to my home and family. Sure people can say that six million Jews deserved to die and that their surviving loved ones deserve to go through horrible grief because of bad things they must’ve done in a past life. But that certainly does not mean that it was okay for Hitler and the Nazis to be racists and to commit one of the worst genocides in history. If a child is bullied in school, people can argue that the kid probably did that to someone else in a past life or did bad things in a past life. But, that does not mean that it is okay for those teasing the kid to do that. And any ignorant person would say that our Indian ancestors had to suffer under the rule of British and Middle Easterners because of what our Indian ancestors did in their past lives. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT DOES NOT MEAN WHAT THE BRITISH AND MIDDLE EASTERNERS DID WAS FINE TOO. So once again, I think critically and look beyond my horizons because it’s not in God’s nature to let evil be repeated.

      • Namaste Kris

        I suspect you have not read the karma philosophy in detail because i sense from your post that you are treating the theory of ACTION(karma) as theory of passivism and inaction!

        it reflects a fundamental error in your analyis of the theory of karma , IMHO

      • Kris

        even by the historians yardstick , your claim that hindus borrowed the rebirth theory from budhists and jains is incorrect.The historians viewpoint is that rebirth as a concept was first mentioned in the brahamanas in 9th century BC and Jainism and Buddhism adopted it in the 6th century BC. so i request to complete your research thoroughly be it secular or spiritual

        as to your objections to rebirth(which you call reincarnation) ..they are very basic ones ..please read this article again which answers all this preliminary objections

        dhanyawad

    • Namaste Kris

      I would encourage you to continue your research and not derive conclusions half-way through.

      Also to brand rational enquirers as right-wing indians is irrational. This is a site for rational investigation and not tolerance of untruth.needless to say it is for mature participants who KNOW that religious doctrines would be put to scrutiny without bias.This may seem unpalatable to some who incidentally are not the intended audiences in the first place(please read the disclaimer to check yourslef)

      Vedas talk about accepting NOBLE ideas from every direction ..not about tolerating intolerance or ignoble ideas.

      Dhanyawad

  12. @Vik
    ________________We cannot be equal because islam is a cult that orders muslims to consider themselves superior to non muslims______________.

    Brother If Allah would wish than why can we not above Mohamad. If Allah would clean our heart with water as he cleaned heart of Mohamad. Then Why can we not be greater than Mohamad.

    • Islam dosen’t ask Muslim to consider superior then other.. But ask to be humble to week and strong against oppressors. It is Allah who made Muhamad (PBUH) to be Prophet of Islam. Allah can raise any one to greatness and put any one to disgrace. Like he disgraced the Paroh of Egypt who called him self God and destoryed his Army

  13. Because if evolution is true then there is no point of worshipping god…all life process are just a mere matter of chance…Evolution reject God..and science supports Evolution..so we can say there s no god.

    Take me through the logic of all these statements, please. As of now, they are just kinda hanging in the air.

  14. Namaste

    ——–if evolution is true then there is no point of worshipping god..we have
    evolved from tiny cells and we will evolve more in future———-

    Please visit http://satyagni.com/1985/why-did-god-create-us/ for knowing Vedic perspective of creation, its different from the creation of Abrahamic theology. In short, need of having keyboard and screen for typing your comments does not take away the authorship of your comment from you 🙂

    Thanks

    • @whathappentovajra/Abdullah

      Namaste Brother, I have few query please answer me.

      Q. What is Islam?
      Q. What should be trait of true religion?
      Q.Why God wants his worship?
      Q. Why God changes his mind by sending different book? Why his teaching is not eternal like him. Why there is difference in his first teaching & last teachings.
      Q. Why we can bot be equal or exceed from prophet Mohamad if God would will?

      • @truth seeker

        Namaste brother,

        u have asked very good questions, but I doubt this idiot will be able to answer it, anyways I will answer them on his behalf, after all we should all stick up for one another.

        Islam is a cult invented by not Mohammad but by one of his arab followers after him passing away.

        Allah wants his worship because Allah is suffering from superiority complex, hence Allah is a fake illiusional God of Arabs.

        Allah sends different books at different times because His memory is weak, he forgets to mention something in book1 so he sends book2, and so on.

        We cannot be equal because islam is a cult that orders muslims to consider themselves superior to non muslims.

        I do feel bad giving these answers as I really honour Allah or Ishwar but my answers are based on the Quran teachings and the way Quran portrays God.

  15. @KalBhairav.

    You cant even proof what contribute you have done to society. what makes you ponder into proving
    other famous people’s belief. Does your perspective of scientist only sticks to religion beliefs,
    or you are simply bias 😀

    LIst was presented to Mr Arun for his narrow minded comments for generalizing one community.
    If one appreciates Dr. Abdul Kalam same goes for Albert Einstien or Newton. One do not need to ponder into their beliefs. Wake up bro.

    • @haha:

      Yea…I need to blow my own trumpet on a public forum about my contributions to society. Surely that is the way to go…How is this even relevant to our discussion on hand?

      Does your perspective of scientist only sticks to religion beliefs, or you are simply bias

      My bias? What bias? I never said discoveries/inventions in science are related to a person’s religious beliefs. You implied bias by giving a list of Muslim scientists. If you wanted to respond to another user you could have made an *intelligent* response to him by pointing out that correlation between religious beliefs and scientific discoveries is tenuous at best. Instead you ignorantly gave a list of Muslim scientists as if to counter the other user’s arguments. That is not how intelligent debate is supposed to work.

    • @hahaarun

      Namaste Brother Please solve my querry:-

      What are the ritual & superstitions are necessary to follow if one want to accept Islam. There are many rituals & superstitions in Islam like bowing head before Idol or stone building like Kaba, Kissing the stone etc &. many other rituals. I am not aware with all rituals & superstitions which are compulsory to follow to be Muslim. Please give me list so that I can think on accepting Islam & What is the science behind kissing the stone?

  16. @haha:

    hypocrites like you will neva change wat to do? knowledge belongs to everyone not
    only stick to one community. its human nature to discover when they are curious & human mind to be religious. Give me proof wat you have done to contribute to society that you are so
    proud of

    It didnt take long for the adhominems to start, did it? Why do you create strawmen? Where did I say that knowledge is the exclusive domain of one race or one religion? It was YOU who gave a list of Muslim scientists. I just asked you to establish the link between their belief in “La Ilaha Il Allah Mohammed Rasool Allah” and inventions/discoveries in science. If you cannot do that, why even provide a list of Muslim scientists? What purpose does that serve in any argument?

  17. @ vajra

    Where are you man? Your oil finish already cannot run the engine anymore. show up
    dude.

    @abdullah

    noted, thanks for that clarification.

  18. @Vajra

    I am mere an audience who likes to follow debates. Well Mr Vajra they are many questions raised
    from Mr Abdullah. Its to time for you to shine.

    Thanks Mr Abdullah for proving Agniveer wrong in Rebuttal to Agniveer. It clears my
    mind.

    Vajra, waiting for you to rebute Abdullah’s cliam since you are 100% confident,

    Thank you.

    • @whathappentovajra

      The rebutalls which I had provided you are not mine.They belongs to their respective Authors.So all credit goes to them.

      Just clearifying.

      Thanks

  19. I was following Mr Abdullah & Mr Vajra’s heated debate. I feel Vajra seems to be running away from facts of Quran for Science verses (child born from water,big bang theory, sea water barriers, ocean darkness, moon light). If you 100% confident verses are translated wrongly, then provide the correct verse with translator name and prove it wrong and close the chapter, do not counter question & indirectly admit defeat. By the way where is your reply since Mr Abdullah posted on 25 FEB 2011. You went to make English translations for Vedas is it 😉 just kidding brother but please
    keep posting.

      • @vajra

        “Science in Quran

        Please do me a favor and answer only those questions which i am asking. Please dont create questions out of yourself and start giving their answers. I repeat, I need the scientific explanations of

        1. Muhammad broke the moon
        2. Sea was separated when Muhammad wanted to cross it
        3. Flying donkey of Muhammad in Shab e Meraz
        4. Jesus without father
        5. Moses talking to stones
        6. Beating of stones and their weeping!

        as soon as you give the SCIENTIFIC explanations to these 5, i will again ask for next 5. So please go ahead with these questions. Right now I dont want to go into the complications of the verses you gave as they are twisted to suit science and I will have to give you some Arabic lessons before I refute those. So till then wait and try to find answers to what has been asked, i will be very thankful to you.”

        I have gone through Agniveer science-zakir theory. It seems he proofs his own theory
        and smiling at himself without any expert review.. To be fair to Abdullah, why dont you answer
        those as you mention “I dont want to go into the complications of the verses you gave as they are twisted to suit science and I will have to give you some Arabic lessons before I refute those.”

        So pls share some arabic lessons. so we can learn from you. I hope you do not runaway again. I
        would love to hear from you. please.

      • @whathappentovajra

        Salaam Brother,

        I would like to tell you what really happen to Vajra-

        1-Vajra failed to Scientifically prove that Vedas are word of God with English transaltion supported by suitable link.
        (Because he did not consider English as an International Language)

        2-Vajra failed to give English transalation of the verses about Scientific Erors in Vedas.
        (He can only give the translation of his guru Agniverr which is indeed self-made)

        3-Vajra failed to give English transalation of verses dealing with Incest in Vedas with proper link to support his transaltion.
        (He was just passing time by saying he will give you after I accept this or that.But the fact is that he did not have the translation.Or he was waiting for his Guru Agniveer to manufacture his own translation.)

        4-Vajra cannot even explain some verse of his Vedas i.e. Yajur Veda 31:9-14.
        (Thats prove that he is not a so-called Scholar which he pretend to be but you only rely on the verses which his Guru Agniveer had told him.And he himself did not have the knowledge of Vedas).

        5-Vajra failed to answer my many conceptual question on Reincarnation Theory.

        6-Vajra claims to be Monotheist but also belive that their are three eternals i.e. Aatma,Paramta and Prakarti.

        7-Vajra failed to expalin that How do we obtain forgiveness for our sins?

        8-Vajra failed to answer these-
        “I think in Hinduism it is not good for Divorced women to remarry.”
        “Is divorced allowed in Vedas? Where”
        “Did in Vedas Women has right to seek divorce?Where”

        9-Vajra did not give his views on the 8 verses of Vedas which disrespect women.

        10-Vajra failed to prove that the Rishis to whom Vedas were given i.e. Agni,Vayu etc did really existed in this world on historicall grounds.

        11-Vajra failed to explain the verses from Hindu Shastras which suppot pre-teen marriages.

        12-Vajra was badly exposed when he asked that”Sea was separated when Muhammad wanted to cross it”.
        This proved his lack of knowledge in Islam.He didn’t even know that it was Prophet Moses(pbuh) for whom sea was separated and not for Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)

        13-To show science in Quran first I gave him Yusuf Ali’s translation which was done in 1930s before many recent scientific discoveries were done.But he told me that verses are twisted.

        Then I gave him Translation of NON-MUSLIMS like J.M.Rodwell & E.H.Palmer done in 1870s.Before any of these scientific discoveries were made.I have also provided you translation of A.J.Arberry a NON-MUSLIM done in 1960s.

        But again he did not accept them and asked me to show Translation of Ibn Kathir and Jalalayn etc.

        His this demand again proved his lack of knowledge about Islam.Because Scholars like Ibn
        Kathir,Jalalayn,Tabri,Hussaini NEVER TRANSLATED THE QURAN.THEY ONLY HAS WRITTEN TAFSIR i.e. COMMENTARY OF QURAN.
        So,it was foolish on his part to ask for their translation.

        Then I give him Tafsir-Ibn Kathir and Tafsir al-Jalalayn

        After all these Transaltions and Tafsirs he did not want to accept that Quran has Moderm Science in it.
        Why? because he is super stubborn.

        And then he run away from the debate on this forum and asked his friend Agnostic to write ariticle on Science and Zakir Bhai ,major points of which are rebutted by IH&TOH.

        On my part I have answered his almost all questiuon in great details.Or let say I have tried to answer his all question.But Vajra had not even tried to answer my many question and just told me to read Agniveer articles..

        Best Regards
        Abdullah Khan

      • @Vajra

        Salaam Brother,

        —–You mean to say “I thought Brother Abdullah did not show up after Indian Agnostic article on Science(in which Vajra was silent contributer)”——

        Really,the major points of that article has been rebutted by IH&TOH dont you know that.And One rebuttal is in its Trackbacks also.I will give you links to the rebuttals below.

        And that article is just a copy-paste from christains missionary sites and other Ismalophobes sites like jihadwatch,islam-watch,faithfreedom etc plus some stupid Aryabhatta know that know this before Quran type of claims when we know that Aryabhatta was a literate scientist.

        And may I remind you that it was you who had run away from our one on one debate on THIS FORUMS.And tried to shift our debate to Bible forums where you can have the support of your other stubbborn friends like you.Thats why I stopped commenting on this website.Because I never gets answers to my question.But you all expect me to answer your all questions.

        And I requested you to continue this debate many times and to bring your arguments here.But you was just ignoring my demand.

        You can discuss with me the points of Indian Agnostics article One by One here or at that article’s forum (One on One) after 5 or 6 days if you really want to.

        Best Regards
        Abdullah

      • Abdullah: Big Bang / Science in the Quran? What’s this great fuss about Bigbang in the Quran? The Vedas state in no uncertain terms how Brahma creates a blast from which being sprang from non being. The verses are there in rig Veda 10.71. So, if quran and arabs found science & big bang 1400 yrs ago, Vedas already had that knoweldge in them,aeons before Quran.

        For a change, you need to relook the tapes of what Dr.Campbell stated during his debate with Zakir Naik. You folks are so hung up on what ZN said in that debate and miss the truth of what Dr.Campbell really said. ZN repeated a puncture premise over an over and the Muslim crowd in the debate thought he won. Keeping aside the win loss equation let us look at two aspects of Science in Islam, based on Dr.Moore and Dr.Bucaille.

        Dr.Moore: Have you read this gentleman’s book end to end?? Please look at Dr. Moore’s book The Developing Human, chapters 15 and 17 on embryonic development. The contents will directly and completely contradict the Quranic stages of embrynic development. But without checking them ZN and you guys go around the town quoting Dr.Moore’s book as a validation of Quranic embryology.

        Dr.Bucaille: The Arab airheads needed a French kafir to reiterpret an Arabic word from the Quran? I love this. Afterall the Arabs needed French commandos to secure the grand Mosque @ Mecca during the terrorist attack in 1979.Anyway, other then Dr.Bucaille no other native Arabic language scholar (before that) ever claimed Alaqa to be “leech like.” Since aeons, Alaq / Alaqa in Arabic were always pointing to “clots.” Period. Just to make the Quran look scientific, the house of Saud paid these doctors to puke out books and made them best sellers in the Arab world.

        And if you really wanna verify it yourself (about embryology), why don’t you go to any OBG clinic and ask the embryonic stages of growth and then refer to the stages in Quran. The former is based on evidences from scans of the embryo while the Quranic embryology is borrowed from a combo of Greek & Persian knowledge of the same that existed at the time of Muhammad.

        According to you guys, not even one verse in the Quan is false/wrong, as, it is God’s words. But the Quranic embryology,based on Hippocrates is so wrong and hence Quran is NOT God’s word. Period.

      • I stand corrected, it was rig ved 10.72. But please do pay a visit to a gyanecologist to know how erronoeus are quranic verses are on embryological stages..

      • Abdullah khan,
        Could you please clarify whether allah created heaven(universe according to you) at the same time or earth was created much later? Also in the quran statement indicating big bang it was mentioned we created . Whom is that WE refering to?
        Also there is one more refutation for agniveer which translates a word to seven or more. Why is it translated to seven or more there? Why cant it be 8 or any other number?

      • Abdullah: You may be busy. So I am assuming that you did not see my response to your claim about Big Bang in quran. Now to moon light.

        Genesis 1: 16 says that God created two lights, the greater light Sun to rule the day and lesser light Moon to rule the night.

        Quran 71.16 simply repeats the claim from Genesis. The verse says ..the Moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a Glorious Lamp…

        What is so great about moonlight in the Quran? And if you are trying to explain away the parable of moon / light in a niche, even Ibn Kathir’s tafsir does not cut it. Light is guidance, niche is the heart of a muslim, lamp is the quran and faith that is in the heart of the muslim, olive tree has NO explanation in the tafsir, pure oil is once again quran and sharia, light over light is faith and deeds of a muslim. This is nowehere helping anybody to discern this whole verse quran 24.35. So the verse is still not comprehensible.

  20. namaste,

    brother khan, i wish you must know the root of “pathan’s”, where belong from. according to encyclopedia of islam the world ‘pathan’ is come from rig veda. you claim you are born muslim! it’s my belief that no-one is born muslim, but born human. later he/she become anything. like, before accept islam by our ancienter we are buddhist (may be you don’t know, it is the fact, what late baadshah khan also said). during islamic invaders our ancienter had to accept islam, because as world know buddhist deeply believe in non-violence. so they try to defeat them with non-violence, which was not possible. like you can’t defeat talibaanis with this way. so they had no option but to convert, for the safety of their families, relatives, wife, children.

    for understanding you should realize that pathans are not muslims like other muslims, we are not bigot in nature. we are secular, kind heart for non-muslims (which is factually against of islamic teachings), we believe in shastriye sangeet, ragas, dance which are purely vedic teaching. and according to definition of Hinduism [a way of life] we are hindu, not muslim, because we follow that way of life.

  21. Mr Abdullah

    After long time I saw some sensible person debating here.Can you debate with me.Will appreciate and I promise you whoever wins the logical debate will accept the others faith/belief.Please send me e-mail [email protected] or reply here.

    I will pose you first question.We will limit ourself to Quran.

    First question.

    How Allah created human.

    Thanks
    PM

    • Mr Patrioticmonk (PM)

      I myself also after the long time saw some sensible person in you who want to at least listen to the truth.And want debate through E-Mails.

      I will reply you by E-Mail soon.So keep your eye on your inbox.

      Thanks
      Abdullah

      • Abdullah

        I kindly request you to debate here because of security reasons.

        “Can you please explain how Allah created universe,earth and human” We need to be from Quran and very logical.We will not go into hadith or even vedas.This debate will be purely based on common sense.

        You also quote and explain from Quran and I will also do the same.We will apply common sense.

        Thanks
        PM

      • Salam Mr.Patriotic Monk(PM)

        I am Very Very Sorry for my late reply.My PC was not working thats why their is delay in my response.

        Ok we will debate on this forums as you wish.But I will also like to send you copy of my each reply on your E-Mail ID.To make you sure that I am your commom Indian Muslim brother.

        First Brother please answer my these simple questios-
        1-Who according to YOU is the author of Quran?
        2-Are you Hindu?In how many gods you believe.

        Now on your questions.

        1-How Allah created Universe and Earth?
        2-How Allah created human.

        Question-1-How Allah created Universe and Earth?

        Answer-

        Big Bang

        When describing the creation of the “heavens and the earth,” the Qur’an does not discount the theory of a “Big Bang” explosion at the start of it all.

        In fact, the Qur’an says that
        “the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder” (21:30).

        Following this big explosion,

        Allah “turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come together, willingly or unwillingly.’ They said: ‘We come (together) in willing obedience'” (41:11).

        Thus the elements and what was to become the planets and stars began to cool, come together, and form into shape, following the natural laws that Allah established in the universe.

        The Qur’an further states that Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits.
        “It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course” (21:33).

        Expansion of Universe
        The Qur’an also does not rule out the idea that the universe is continuing to expand.
        “The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it” (51:47).

        There has been some historical debate among Muslim scholars about the precise meaning of this verse, since knowledge of the universe’s expansion was only recently discovered.

        Six Days

        The Qur’an states that “Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days” (7:54).

        While on the surface this might seem similar to the account related in the Bible, there are some important distinctions.

        The verses that mention “six days” use the Arabic word “youm” (day). This word appears several other times in the Qur’an, each denoting a different measurement of time. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that “a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning” (22:47). The word “youm” is thus understood, within the Qur’an, to be a long period of time — an era or eon. Therefore, Muslims interpret the description of a “six day” creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period.

        The Qur’anic account of creation is in line with modern scientific thought about the development of the universe and life on earth. Muslims acknowledge that life developed over a long period of time, but see Allah’s power behind it all. Descriptions of creation in the Qur’an are set in context to remind the readers of Allah’s majesty and wisdom.

        “What is the matter with you, that you are not conscious of Allah’s majesty, seeing that it is He Who has created you in diverse stages? See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (glorious) lamp? And Allah has produced you from the earth, growing (gradually)” (71:13-17).

        Life Came From Water

        The Qur’an describes that Allah “made from water every living thing” (21:30).

        Another verse describes how “Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things” (24:45).

        These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth’s oceans.

        Other Verses dealing in creation if Heavens and Earth.

        [21:31]And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

        [31:10] He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.

        -Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists. He is a Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. Professor Alfred said:

        “Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a Bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case.”

        He also said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here.”

        Question-2-How Allah created human.
        Answer-

        Creation of Adam & Eve
        While Islam recognizes the general idea of the development of life in stages, over a period of time, human beings are considered as a special act of creation. Islam teaches that human beings are a unique life form that was created by Allah in a special way, with unique gifts and abilities unlike any other: a soul and conscience, knowledge, and free will. In short, Muslims do not believe that human beings randomly evolved from apes. The life of human beings began with the creation of two people, a male and a female named Adam and Hawwa (Eve).

        The Qur’an describes how Allah created Adam: “We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape…” (15:26).

        And, “He began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from a quintessence of fluid” (32:7-8).

        Thus, human beings have a fundamental attachment to the earth.

        While the creation of Eve is not described in detail, the Qur’an does make it clear that a “mate” was created with Adam, from the same nature and soul. “It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her in love” (7:189). She is not mentioned by name in the Qur’an, but in Islamic tradition she is known as “Hawwa” (Eve).

        From these two individuals, generations of human beings have inhabited the earth.

        “Oh humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured among you in the sight of Allah is the who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)” (49:13).

        Other verses dealing with the creation of Mankind-

        [6:2]He it is created you from clay, and then decreed a stated term (for you). And there is in His presence another determined term; yet ye doubt within yourselves!

        [15:28] Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: “I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

        [15:29] “When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.”

        Perfect Embroylogy

        [22:5]O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

        [23:12] Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay);

        [23:13]Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;

        [23:14] Then we developed the drop into a hanging (embryo), then developed the hanging (embryo) into a bite-size (fetus), then created the bite-size (fetus) into bones, then covered the bones with flesh. We thus produce a new creature. Most blessed is GOD, the best Creator.

        -Keith L. Moore is a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences (Faculty of Medicine) at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has also worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He is most known for his textbooks on the subjects of anatomy and human embryology.He said:

        “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God or Allah”.

        Waiting for your reply.
        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • In case you have not been following the comments regularly, let me remind you that, yes. we are hindus, and we believe in only one God (paratma, brahman, satchitananda, etc.). Yes, there are millions of supernatural beings who we know as devis, devtas, yakshinis, gandharvas, apsaras, etc. So, in case you have some wrong notions about our faith, I hope now it has been effectively dispelled.

  22. @Abdullah
    Asalaam u alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatahu!
    Akhi you are wasting your time with these people!
    Don’t you remember what Allah says: “Deaf, Dumb and Blind will never return to the straight path”
    They are harming no one but themselves but they realise it not!
    You have done your duty by delivering the message !
    No matter what they do , what they believe and what they say ” ISLAM WILL DOMINATE THE WORLD ”
    My Brothers in humanity, May Allah s.w.t guide u all !
    I can only supplicate for you the rest is upto Allah and he will give u hidayah if u struggle in his path”

    • such an irony

      this tufayl ahmed bros site is peace-foundation and his claim is Khilafah is coming !

      one more reason to disrobe the charade

    • @ Tufayl Ahmed

      Dominate the world? You people are already # 1 in terms of numbers, where is the domination? USA practically walked into Baghdad. Where was the mighty Saddam Hussein’s army? Where is the Taleban? Taleban might be giving some problems, but US and NATO practically have bases all over the country. Pakistan is 99 % Muslim, where is the domination? Jews account for around 16 million people spread throughout the world whereas Muslims account for around 1.3 billion! Where is the domination? Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries, but it is fair to say that they dominating you people. If 16 million Jews can fool around with 1.3 billion people, I feel confident that India is in good hands (if Jihadists like you try your domination schemes in my nation).

      Gulf states run after US and allow operations for air bases for West for attacks against Muslim countries (Oman, Saudi, Turkey and of course our favorite Pakistan). 50 % of the Arab youth is unemployed and according to a United Nations report from 2009, 50 % of the Arab youth also want to leave their native countries

      Have you taken account into the mass IMMIGRATION/EXODUS, pre-dominantly from Muslim nations, that has happened throughout Europe past decade? In Sweden alone, between 2007-2010, around 90,000+ asylum seekers from Muslim countries were given permanent residency. In Sweden, atheism accounts for around 80% of the population, so obviously for sake of statistics, Islam would be the fastest growing religion in Sweden! When you make these claims, think a bit outside the box, which is hard for most Muslims, about the factors which contribute to such a rise. Also, the ironic thing is that these immigrants are seeking asylum after escaping Muslim countries! However, if you want to make an analysis, look at this link of birth rates around the world:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate

      If you make a deep analysis, you will come to understand that the top 35 countries are relatively poor and undeveloped countries. Many are failed states, high on corruption, low on human rights and are generally war torn. Of the top 35 countries with highest birth rates, around 20 have Islamic majority population. You see my point? You might be rising in numbers, but mainly in places of corruption, poverty and underdevelopment and due to the low human rights that are present in these countries, how many do you think adopt Islam by choice? My friend from Iran (who fled the country with his family around 7-8 years ago) said that when he was born, they automatically just counted him as a Muslim. But as you know, he had no choice in a country like Iran.

      Peace

    • @Tufayl Ahmed

      Allah has already written our destiny as deaf blind dumb, so hence its not our fault but Allah’s. Allah makes some people kafir like us and some people plain illogically stupid like you!!

      The message you are talking about has many contradictions and errors so hence we can only laugh at such messages. It is an arabian message which you people portray as Allah’s. Hence you cannot fool us this time, better luck next time!

      May Ishwar guide you to the path of light and bliss.

    • @Ahmed

      Why is it that people like you simply shy away from debate and just want others to accept your FAIRY-TALES without even questioning??? Why is that for you other religions are always bad and have nothing worth offering???

      WAKE UP from your slumber and learn to appreciate GOOD THINGS about other religions. It is really VERY ANNOYING to find that Guys like you simply trash anything that is seemingly not explained by your religion. Then what is the meaning of debate when you guys just chip in with the attitude of “Only I have all the answers”!!! You just want to dominate others, what a PITY thinking!

    • @TUFAYL AHMED,

      Islam will not dominate the world, but islam will be decimated from the world. The khilafah is not coming but your annihilation is coming. When the juedo-christain west and hindu-buddhist east join hands even your false god allah wont be able to save islam. just wait for the holocaust.

      HAR HAR MAHADEV.

    • A CHURCH that believes in reincarnation? LOL! I’m sure that Church was for liberals, hippies, queers, new agers, self-hating whites, jungle worshippers, and wiccan freaks.

    • I was laughing watching this video “zaheer se bat hi ki gup indri se he pravesh hota hoga”
      “ved dhar me sitri ka shareer neecha hai”
      the person in this video is running all over with his assumptions and then concluding with whatever he wants..
      may allah give such people some grey matter.

  23. There is a mysterious instance in Mahabharata. I guess you must heard about ASHVASTHAMA (Son of Dronacharya- The Guru of Pandavas and Kuravas). It is mentioned in Mahabharata that Sri Krishna had cursed him to be condemned to Earth without a rebirth. It is said that he is still living, although in pain (as was ordained by Krishna). People claim to have seen him (Frankly most of these are fraudsters out for publicity). But he is to remain “alive” on this earth till the destruction of the Earth. Now the saving grace is that : Ashvasthama shall become a saptarishi (one among 7 rishis) after his ordeal is over.
    Now friends one more thing. Have you heard about Near death experience(NDE), or about those people who clinically died but just rose in the nick of time before they were burnt. In both these cases there is substantial evidence (eg- In case of NDE the victim knew everything that happened during the time he was NOT alive!!) that these people were saying truth. Some of them claim to have seen their forefathers and also a hint of previous births.
    Then have you heard about people REMEMBERING THEIR PREVIOUS BIRTH. In one instance a boy, 13 yr old, was electrocuted in the chest in his previous birth. Surprisingly he not only remember that birth BUT also had the SAME INJURY MARK ON HIS CHEST AT THE SAME LOCATION AND OF SAME SIZE as was on the corpse of that dead boy!! Many such instances have been documented that prove PREVIOUS LIFE AND REBIRTH.

  24. Let me clear the position regarding REBIRTH vis-a-vis Hinduism, Christianity and Islam:
    Consider the following points carefully:
    1. As per Bhagwad Gita life after death and subsequent rebirth is an ESSENTIAL TRUTH. All living beings go through it.

    2. In Hinduism some beings live on this Earth without taking rebirth. As an illustration, I will mention a few instances in Hindu Scriptures: LORD HANUMAN has been ordained by Lord Rama to stay put on this earth and assuage the pain and troubles of Good Humans who seek God’s blessings; Hanumanji is said to have replied that till there is even one Rama(God in universal sense) bhakt he shall remain. Hence Lord Hanuman is deemed to be essentially omnipresent on this earth. Another example is that of LORD PARSHURAM JI, who is also to stay on this earth (he is said to be residing in Mahendra Parbat), please note that according to Kalki Puran he is to become the Guru of Kalki avataar.

    3. As far as others are concerned, even the saints cannot escape the cycles of rebirth. But God has granted them some powers. According to Chapter 6 of Bhagwad gita: A Yogi may choose the place and time of his death according to his convenience. Of course he has to leave the body at some point.

    4. Reincarnation theory has been developed in detail by Greece and India. Ancient Greeks– Pythagorean, Empodocles, Plato inculcated it in their teachings.

    5. Some Christians also deeply believe in transmigration of the soul. Example– General George S Patton, American Army General and also World War-2 hero, deeply believed in rebirth. He remembered few of his previous birth and talked about them. In one instance when he was posted to and Italian city, then on his arrival he was asked by local officers for a Reece of the area; but he said he knew every point of the region since he had on a previous birth been here. Once he also talked to a senior commander about having fought war in an African region some 2000 yrs back. (Please see Movie “Patton”, based on his actual life, for details).

    6. Now coming to Islam. There is a verse in Koran: “How can you disbelieve in GOD when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?” (2:28) Many Sufi saints argue that the phrase “You were dead” clearly describes reincarnation. These saints argue that there is a difference between Reincarnation and Resurrection. Moreover reincarnation theory successfully explains why some person are born with physical/ mental defects (Theory of Karma). One of the Sufi saints said: ” I died as mineral and became a plant, I died as a plant and rose to animal, I died as a animal and I was a man. Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?” This principle was called the concept of dwariyyah (cycles of birth).

    • Let me clear what Verse 2:28 means:

      “How can ye reject the faith in God?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return”(Quran 2:28 translated by Yusuf Ali)

      Islamic concept of rebirth is completely different from the concept of rebirth of other religions; rebirth in Islam does not mean cycle of birth and death..

      According to Verse 2:28-Before a certain period of birth the humans are in a lifeless state and when a person is born, he lives his life in the world as per the decree and after that he dies and he will be in that state till the day of resurrection. On the day of resurrection he will be resurrected and will be judged and will find his abode either heaven or hell according to the deeds he had done in his life.

      The above verse speaks of the order in which humans have to pass through. It neglects the belief of continued cycle of birth and death. When a person is returned towards Allah on the Day of Resurrection then there will be no death to him.

      Life of the world:

      Woe, that Day, to the deniers.
      [O disbelievers], eat and enjoy yourselves a little; indeed, you are criminals. Quran (77:45-46)

      Allah extends provision for whom He wills and restricts [it]. And they rejoice in the worldly life, while the worldly life is not, compared to the Hereafter, except [brief] enjoyment. Quran (13:26)

      Similarly there are many verses which termed the life of the world as a brief enjoyment. Those who try to enforce the belief of rebirth in Islam too agrees that the there are many verses which talks about the single worldly life which is brief (short period). It is an attempt to remove the belief in the Day of Resurrection, those who deny the Day of resurrection is indeed the real losers.

      Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?
      Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips. Quran (75:3-4)

      The above verses completely remove the concept of rebirth wherein souls inhabit new bodies after bodily death.

      Thanks
      Abdullah Khan

      • Ok Mr Abdullah I would not argue with you on the interpretation of this Koranic verse. But at least you must agree that the verse is liable to different interpretation per the Sufi saints. How do you explain the reality of REBIRTH claims?? I will give you a link, read this instance, and the SCIENTIFIC evidence found by the analyst: http://www.reversespins.com/singh.html
        I would also suggest to you an international authority on this subject: Dr Ian Stevenson. Please read his work–“Twenty cases suggestive of Reincarnation,” University of Virginia Press, 1966. Also read his book– “Where Reincarnation and Biology intersect,” 1997. One more: “Children who remember previous lives: A question of Reincarnation,” 2000.
        I have read the extracts of these books and they are quite convincing. He has based his hypothesis on the various “odd” birth-marks and the iterations of children. There is much more, this man has done a GREAT RESEARCH into the Topic with Scientific evidence so compelling that it is HARD TO IGNORE.

      • @Pratap

        The “scientific research” of Dr Ian Stevenson is usually the primary reference cited by many past-life propagandists. However, what many of these enthusiasts do not realise is that after spending half his career investigating alleged reincarnation cases, the late doctor had to grudgingly accept the fact that he had miserably failed to convince his many colleagues in the mainstream scientific community:

        Dr Stevenson himself recognized one glaring flaw in his case for reincarnation: the absence of any evidence of a physical process by which a personality could survive death and transfer to another body… But with rare exception, mainstream scientists – the only group Dr Stevenson really cared to persuade – tended to ignore or dismiss his decades in the field and his many publications. Of those who noticed him at all, some questioned Dr Stevenson’s objectivity; others claimed he was credulous. Still others suggested that he was insufficiently versed in the cultures and languages of his subjects to do credible investigations. (bold, underline ours)

        Maarten Peters and his colleagues of the Department of Experimental Psychology at Maastricht University in the Netherlands conducted research on patients of reincarnation therapists who were hypnotised to help them remember their alleged past lives. The results found that “people who believe they had previous lives are committing a source-monitoring error, or an error in judgment about the original source of a memory… This is important because source-monitoring mistakes are the first in a sequence of events that psychologists believe lead to false memories”. (bold, underline ours)
        False memory or confabulation is the confusion of imagination with memory, and/or the confusion of true memories with false memories in order “to fill in gaps in one’s memory with fabrications that one believes to be facts”.
        Peters went onto say: “Once familiarity of an event is achieved, this can relatively easily be converted into a belief that the event did take place.” He adds: “A next possible step is that individuals interpret their thoughts and fantasies about the fictitious event as real memories.” (bold, underline ours)
        Moreover, “in many cases of false memories, it is very difficult to determine whether or not the perceived events actually occurred – that is, the ‘ground truth’ can not be established

        The so-called evidence of past lives is rejected by the mainstream scientific community due to the presence of an overwhelming volume of empirical proof accumulated over the past couple of decades.

        Refereces-Full artice is available on- http://www.islam-sikhism.info/soter/debunk01.htm

        Check it if want you want to know the TRUTH.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Namste Abdullah Khan

        The scientific verdict is in favor of reincarnation but is a work in progress as of now

        a lot of water has flown under the bridge since Stevensons research. Jim Tucker at the University of virginia is taking the work forward.

        http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departments/psychiatry/sections/cspp/dops#Reincar-articles

        So the article you shared is a bit outdated considering these new developments

        but you would agree that the very fact that the scientific community is dedicated to study/establish this phenomenon further proves that it must be welcomed and not shunned by any rational or scientific mind.

        Dhanyawad

  25. Dr Brian Weiss,ultra modern psychotherapistproved rebirth or reincarnation at california, during past life regression in a girl Catherine.
    Source- ‘many lives,many masters’
    By Dr Briann Weiss MD.
    No theory has been put forward to disprove him!
    Muslim brothers,please show the dignity of accepting truth.there r no winners and loosers in a debate,but truth wins!
    welcome to vedic life,live blissfully!
    Pranams..

    • Reincarnation researcher the late Dr. Ian Stevenson penned an essay expressing concern about hypnotic regression, noting his belief that nearly all “hypnotically evoked “previous personalities” are entirely imaginary just as are the contents of most dreams.”

      Weiss’ research, which has been conducted without standard scientific protocols or peer review, has also been criticized for relying, as proof of reincarnation, on personal information about Weiss’ deceased son that was provided by “Catherine” during a regression of her to “the space between lives.”

      • Dear Abdulla[h],

        Please clarify the following contradictions in verses from the Quran:

        2:28 (Karma or reincarnation)

        “How can ye reject the faith in Allah?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.”

        2:167 (No second chance)

        “And those who followed would say: “If only we had one more chance, we would clear ourselves of them, as they have cleared themselves of us.” Thus will Allah show them (the fruits of) their deeds as (nothing but) regrets. Nor will there be a way for them out of the Fire.”

        2:28 gives hints that Islam recognizes re-birth till the individual becomes realizes God. In 1:167, Allah seems to change his mind that non-believers will get eternal hell and will not get a second chance to repent.

        This translation was taken from Yusuf Ali – a devout Muslim who spoke fluent Arabic and could recite Quran by heart (can you do any of the two?). Also, this is what the Ministry of Hajj of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has to share about the Quran:

        “The Holy Qur’an, as it is now, was compiled shortly after the Prophet’s death.”

        20 years perhaps?

        I think you are Muslim because you are scared of Hell, not because you have reached a state off supreme bliss. Now answer the contradictions, please.

        Salkia

      • Dear Salkia

        Let me clear what Verse 2:28 means:

        “How can ye reject the faith in God?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return”(Quran 2:28 translated by Yusuf Ali)

        According to Verse 2:28-Before a certain period of birth the humans are in a lifeless state and when a person is born, he lives his life in the world as per the decree and after that he dies and he will be in that state till the day of resurrection. On the day of resurrection he will be resurrected and will be judged and will find his abode either heaven or hell according to the deeds he had done in his life.

        The above verse speaks of the order in which humans have to pass through. It neglects the belief of continued cycle of birth and death. When a person is returned towards Allah on the Day of Resurrection then there will be no death to him.

        Life of the world:

        Woe, that Day, to the deniers.
        [O disbelievers], eat and enjoy yourselves a little; indeed, you are criminals. Quran (77:45-46)

        Allah extends provision for whom He wills and restricts [it]. And they rejoice in the worldly life, while the worldly life is not, compared to the Hereafter, except [brief] enjoyment. Quran (13:26)

        Similarly there are many verses which termed the life of the world as a brief enjoyment. Those who try to enforce the belief of rebirth in Islam too agrees that the there are many verses which talks about the single worldly life which is brief (short period). It is an attempt to remove the belief in the Day of Resurrection, those who deny the Day of resurrection is indeed the real losers.

        Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?
        Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips. Quran (75:3-4)

        The above verses completely remove the concept of rebirth wherein souls inhabit new bodies after bodily death.

        So according to this Verse 2:28 there will be no second chance to any human similar to Verse 2:167 –

        “And those who followed would say: “If only we had one more chance, we would clear ourselves of them, as they have cleared themselves of us.” Thus will Allah show them (the fruits of) their deeds as (nothing but) regrets. Nor will there be a way for them out of the Fire.”

        So you again failed to find a single contradiction in Quran.

        Keep trying but you will not be able to find any contradictions.

        Please I request you to come to the truth.

        Thanks
        Abdullah Khan

  26. Dear Abdullah and other Muslim readers,

    I would like to apologise sincerely for my remarks on Mohammed’s IQ and comparing Islam, the Quran and Mohammed to a drop of swine’s testicular sweat. There was no need for this comparision and I regret my selection of words. While I assure that I will do my best to conform to the spirit of fair, logical and respectful debate in the future towards my opponents, I do stand firm on my beliefs regarding the scientific errors that I have pointed out in the Quran.

    Sincerely,

    Salkia

    • Dear Salkia

      I would like to apologize to you and to my all Hindu Brothers if I have said anything which hurts the sentiments of my Hind Brothers and Sisters in my previous post. I had made such remarks because Salkia Provoked me first by Abusing Allah ,Muhammad(pbuh) and givng me some unhuman advise.But the points which I have listed are with their respective refernces so if anyone want to confirm it he can do so.

      I know that Salkia had already apologized so I felt that I should also apologize.So matter is over.

      Thanks
      Abdullah

  27. RE: Child gender in Quran:

    Charaka knew the fundamentals of genetics. For instance, he knew the factors determining the sex of a child. A genetic defect in a child, like lameness or blindness, he said, was not due to any defect in the mother or the father, but in the ovum or sperm of the parents (an accepted fact today). Charaka was the first physician to present the concept of digestion, metabolism and immunity.

    Charaka lived during 300 BC in India. Your Quran is a bunch of bullshit.

  28. I think it is clear that it is very hard to defend Islam and the Quran from an intellectual, social and spiritual perspective. Islam is so big mainly due to factors such as high child birth, conversion institutions (such as IRF etc) and of course the fact that leaving Islam in an Islamic country carries the death sentence.

    We saw in this forum that a gentleman named Abdullah could only defend the Quran with quotes from the Quran itself but could not illuminate the spirtual or social significance of these quotes. The fact so much has been taken from the Vedas and the fact that the Quran is based a lot upon Judaism and Christianity just makes it clear that this is not the work of God but more of a “refinement” of the latter two.

    If people who are really interested in these topics, why don’t you read Plato’s Rebublic which was published ca 350 BCE. You will see in the book how Socrates discusses why a caste “system” is inevitable in society. In modern economics this “caste system” is simply known as division of labour. Also, Plato even developed his “own” caste system by giving similar analogy of the body which is found in Vedas and echoed in the Gita. Quran has tried to abolish it, the Maoists are still trying and secular liberals are trying turn a blind eye to it but the fact remains it is impossible to do so. Of course, caste by birth is a man made disease which has to be cured through education of the true and pure knowledge that can be found only in philosophies of Sanatana Dharma.

  29. Islam the religion of peace ,I really doubt.
    U shd have shame to call it a religion of peace.Every dispute in the world has Muslim as a party in it.And check this, every Muslim claims the other party as culprit.The Muslims can never be wrong.Muslims in India sit down in India,enjoy all the facilities provided in India enjoy all the masti and entertainment in India use all haj facilities provided by India and then sit down and fight debates and wars against Hindus.They have destroyed the culture of India by bcoming converts of a desert dwelling religion that came to India trough a warfare.Gone all the previous culture is gone.They dont want to comment abt the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir Pundits but wanna talk abt Muslims in Afghanistan,Iraq and Palestine.They r least botherd abt wats happening to ppl of India.The bloddy Kashmiri muslims r the most disghusting and dirtiest in India.They r the most criminal minded of all.They shout slogans of freedom …freedom in Indian Kashmir but they never ask for freedom from Pak occupied Kashmir or China occupied Kashmir.They want freedom from Kashmir that comes under India only.Dont know wats up with POk and CHinese occupied Kashmir,Guess they r happy with them.And the muslims in India take to the streets to condemn the paintings of Prophet Mohammad ,but they wanna sit back relax in the house when a terrorist blasts a bomb.They dont want to condemn then.I just dont understand the pathetic situation India is in.Shame.Sorry for this outburst I just feel sad things r not the way they shd b.The comments section said speak ur mind and I just spoke my mind .So gues sorry if it infuriated anybody but this is the truth.

  30. @Salkia: 1) In what manner did Islam arrive in the subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc)?
    North India – came in military advancement but conquered by sufism spirituality , South India – Spirituality advancement.
    Very simple isnt it? Their problem was that they couldnt enter the continent by parachutes coz parachutes were not invented yet. Simple isnt it?

    2) Why is the Pāriyātra Parvata (पारियात्र पर्वत) mountain range known widely as Hindu Kush now?
    You need to know the meanings in persian derived languages of afghanistan/pakistan.

    3) Why are the Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own country?
    Huh political question? Better ask the Indian Govt. why kashmiri pandits are refugees in their own country or why muslims were butchered in gujrat.

    4) What is the penalty for leaving Islam according to the Quran/Hadiths?
    Depends on the situation.

    5) Why is it sanctioned to tax infidels ie. non-believers as per the Quran?
    Why is it sanctioned to tax believers as per Quran. Surprised?? I hope you were talking about jiziya, so also try to know what is zakat and ushr.

    6) Why is it not allowed to propagate other religions in Islamic countries?
    Why is beef not allowed in many hindu societies?

    • @sshama:

      As you offered illuminating (end{sarcasm}) responses to earlier questions here are some more:

      (1)Your have a first ancestor that started believing in the exclusivity of Allah/Mohammed and the one-way-path to hell of non-believers in Allah/Mohammed. This is fact. It is also fact, then, that this ancestors parents were non-Muslims. Did they burn in hell?

      (2)You responded above that the penalty for leaving Islam “depends on the situation”. Can you give an example of a situation when the penalty is death? If you could, could you also provide some examples from your own personal life experience, when someone you know was put to death for leaving Islam? Also, if you could, could you elaborate on how you felt after putting that person to death? That is, did you feel elation/joy/sadness/happiness that there is one less Kuffar in the world?

      (3) You probably accept Bible as the world of God think Jesus is not the last prophet or probably a false prophet. So…I am confused…do you or do you not accept the Bible as the word of God? If you partially accept it, then it is not the word of God, right?

      (4) In mathematics there is a provable result that states that the truth or falsity of a system cannot be judged by standing “within” it. That is, one needs to go to a higher plane to judge the truth/falsity of any axiomatic system. Now, how can you then prove to me that Islam is right by standing in the plane of “earthly” life. More importantly (at least for me as a “Kufr”) I would like to know how you prove that Sanatana Dharma is wrong?

    • @sshama: Also, if you could, please let me know if there is anything wrong in the following analogy:

      Muslims quoting the Quran to prove its truthfulness is ANALOGOUS TO:

      Judge to defendant: Prove your innocence. Defendant to judge: I am innocent because I say so.

      Where does this analogy break down, if at all?

    • @sshama

      You responded:
      ————————————————————————–
      6) Why is it not allowed to propagate other religions in Islamic countries?
      Why is beef not allowed in many hindu societies?
      ————————————————————————–
      This is a weak response. Then I think you would be okay if we Hindus, in return, disallow propagation of Islam/Christianity in India, right?You are essentially calling for the head of Zakir Naik. Beware and watch your back – his followers might just kill you since you are justifying a position where Hindus could ban/kill non-Hindus if they copied the policies of Islamic countries.

      PS: I personally think non-Muslims are not allowed to propagate our faith in your Islamic countries because Islam is actually a pretty weak religion. It cannot compete in the open market place of ideas. It needs the force of law to remain the “majority” religion in a country. If Islam is such a great religion, why not allow all religions to compete on an equal footing without any hindrances on conversions/apostasy…Let the best religion WIN! We Hindus are ready for that battle…Are you?

      • @Abdullah:

        Let us debate in the open via these forums…I am sure our discussion will be enlightening to both of us…doing in the open will also serve to help educate other people who visit the site.

        1) So, to begin with, since you quote extensively from the Quran to “prove” its truthfulness, please let me know if the following is a valid analogy or not (with reasons):

        Muslims quoting the Quran to prove its truthfulness is ANALOGOUS TO:

        Judge to defendant: Prove your innocence. Defendant to judge: I am innocent BECAUSE I SAY SO.

        One possible answer of yours could be “Islam/Quran/Mohammed (PBUH) are no ordinary defendants! Mohammed (PBUH) is the SON OF ALLAH HIMSELF! How dare you imply a thought experiment involving Mohammed (PBUH) and a petty thief/criminal/defendant? Off with the Kuffar’s head!” In that case we may possibly have to end our discussions here because we end up with circular and flawed logic.

        2) I am quite sure that despite the attempts of Zakir Naik and others of his ilk to bring me the truth of Quran, I will not believe in the exclusivity of Allah/Mohammed ever in my entire life. Now, I have known about Allah and about Mohammed and yet I choose to not believe in their exclusivity. After I die, will I burn in hell? If yes, how do you know and can you prove it? (See question 1 and depending on your answer there you may have to “prove” this without taking recourse to the Quran/quoting from it).

        3) If we cannot use logic to win over other people in religious debates like this, what else can we use? If you cannot demonstrate empirically/scientifically the truth of what you are saying, why is my belief necessarily “wrong”er than yours?

      • Dear Brother Kalbhairav There are many reasons because of which i did not want to debate in this open forum. 1-Let us imagine that aap ne mujse koi question pocha to mere reply karne say pehle hi kisi aur ne reply kar diya to jab koi third party hamari conversation ko dekheygi to usey kasey samajh me aaeyga ke debate kis ke beech chal rahi hai. 2- Is forum per har tarah ke log aatey hai koi anti-islamic koi anti-hindu. To ye log apni galat comment se debate ko fight bana dyenge. 3- Aap bhi har waqt online nahi rah sakte aur mein bhi nahi.Aur ye koi ek ya do ghante ki debate tou hai nahi.Tou debate systematic nahi chal sakti jabki e-mail se systematic one by one question debate ho sakti. Jab hamari debate e-mail per compelete ho jaygee to hum is forum per full debate ek sath post kar denge. So think about this and reply soon.

      • @Abdullah:

        mujhe yeh dar hai ki aap koi mujahideen honge…Mujhe kya patha…aap mere email address ko lekar IP address dhoondke mujhe khoon karne ke liye mere yahaan pahunch jaye tho? Main tho ek kaaphir hoon…denmark mein aap jaise logon ne Theo Van Gogh ki hatya kar di…

        My response above translated into English (To others who cannot understand Hindi)
        (Brother Abdullah had invited me to share my email address with him so that he could continue debating)
        How do I know you are not a “Mujahideen”. I don’t know. You may use my email, find the IP address and come here to kill me. After all, I am an infidel. In Denmark people like you killed Theo Van Gogh.

      • Dear Hindus,

        Never ever debate with any muslim brother thro’ emails as there is a possibility that your identity could be found and yu may be tortured and killed or your family members may be blackmailed. Please spread this important message to as many persons as possible.

        OM Shantihi.

      • Dear Brother Kal Bhai Rav

        I am not a Mujahideen.
        I am debating with Salkia who is also in these forum through E-Mails and you can ask him if i had said anything in support of terrorism.

        I am here only to talk about Islamic Believes abd Faith and to removes misconceptions about Islam.I am not here to talk about terrosists topic.

        I dont know about Theo Van Gogh.If Muslim man killed him without any reason the I am fully against that Muslim man.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • @Abdullah:

        While we are in the process of exposing your claim to be a “ex Hindu”, let me point out “Bhairav” is a single word, which you OUGHT to know if you/your family were/are Hindu! It is not “Kal Bhai rav”. “Bhai” is the suffix you may have used since birth to address your fellow practitioners of “the religion of peace”.

        KalBhairav is a manifestation of Shiva and considered the presiding deity of Kashi, one of the holiest cities of Hinduism. In Kashi, we have mosques and churches. May I ask how many temples/churches/synagogues are present in Mecca/Medina? So much for “the religion of peace”.

      • @KalBhaiRav

        I am NOT Ex-Hindu .

        I am BORN MUSLIM.

        I have no interest in learning the meaning of your name.

        There are no temples/churches/synagogues in Mecca and Median because there are no Hindus/Jews/Christains there.It is common sense.

        Abdullah

      • Dear Abdullah ,
        muslims allowed to lie? in earlier forums you claimed you were from reddy family …. Abdullah ( slave of allah, father of mohammed) lies… sorry to say I cant debate with liers…..Since now muslims are good at the art of lying, want to check one more lie from you folks … can you tell me if we had common ancestors in Adam and eve , why do we have people with different colours ex blacks in africa, whites in england … after all we were from common ancesstors….. just checking how does a madrasa brain work?

      • Brother KalBhairav,

        There were two Abdullah’s here. You have talked to a different person. I am Abdullah (Reddy). I will mention my name as Abdullah Reddy in the next posts.

        Abdullah Reddy

      • @Pradeep and KalBhaiRav

        Brother Abdullah Reddy is correct.There are two Abdullah here.

        I am Abdullah Khan and I am a BORN Muslim.

        Thanks
        Abdullah Khan

      • Kaakey, bahane mat banao. Jo bolna hai, yahi boldo.

        Dear Brother Abdullah,

        I’m sorry to say my misconceptions have been far from cleared and my respect for you has further dimished. The questions I asked you can easily be answered by this quote from the Quran:

        [47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

        In other words, Quran sanctions holy wars. All these invasions by Muslims occured because the Quran somehow allowed it. You have to see, the messages in the Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear. There are tonnes of these quotes, I’m sure you didn’t bother to check http://www.faithfreedom.org. You are just another brainwashed Muslim. If I don’t beleive Mohammed is the last prophet and if I don’t beleive the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then what I am according to Quran? I am Kufr, Kafir etc. and according to Quran there should be no love for me – tax, behead, kill me – it’s all allowed.

        Nevertheless, I will still try to answer your questions:

        1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

        1) Instead of quoting Quranic verses, you are just making stupid examples – and sadly it wasn’t even your own example but the example of the biggest fraud on earth: Zakir Naik. He made these remarks in Pakistan – I wonder how Indians would have reacted if he had the guts to make them in India? The knowledge of Vedas and Bhagvad Gita is far more superior though. I am not going to declare them the word of God but simple fact: Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology beleives the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve. Now depending on the LEVEL of maths I would wish to pursue, the choices are pretty obvious.

        2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

        2) What you mean experts in religion? How do you professionalise something that is supposed to be very personal? It is like declaring to be an expert in breathing – oh wait, Yoga. But I’m sure praying 5 times a day facing Mecca cures many ailments. Definately, you must be experts but then I’m sure your talking about the Ahmediyas? Or the Sunnis? Or was it the Shites that are profound? Again: All muslim countries are burning. Your probably thinking the Gulf states are great, but how much of their economy can be accredited to their national expertise and not their national resources? What is so Muslim about Dubai? You have a mosque on one side while hearing the beats from a nightclub on the other? You have alcahol everywhere. Experts you are not, and declaring Islam as expertise in religion just enhances my point about intolerance, ignoranace and arrogance in the Islamic teaching towards other religions. There is no point quoting the Quran to make your argument for this question. It’s like using the national anthem of a country to argue for how great that country is…

        3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

        Well, if you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just becuase it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Mohammed really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s death. And furthermore, your mentor/teacher/Guru Zakir Naik always seem to take analogies and example to show SIMILARITIES from our texts and the Quran?

        Once Muslims get this out of their head that Quran should be taken literally word for word that it is PERFECT, only then there will be true harmony. It was appauling and absolutely ignorant and above all baseless to claim Quran is ulitmate for every word.

        Salkia

      • Reply to Salkia

        Dear Salkia

        Your misconception are not cleared because you did not want them to be cleared.
        I respect you but it does not matter to me that you respect me or not.

        Now lets look at the verse you quoted-
        47:4
        If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

        Answer- As it is written clearly in this verse that when you meet unbelievers in FIGHT then kill them.Now let me ask you a question that if there are two armies fighting at border.What will the commander would tell his soldiers?. 100% the commander will say that if you want to win a war then kill your enemies.This is what Allah says in this verse.

        But the verse continue that after the war if you have some captives then set them FREE or RANSOM(to obtain the release of by paying a certain price) them.In the days of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) the captives of the wars were killed after the war ends. But Muhammad(pbuh) told his soldiers to free the captives or to take ransom money from them and free them.So it clearly shows that they were not forced to accept Islam by force.

        Question- Quran allow Holy Wars and all these invasions occurs because Quran somehow allowed them it.

        Answer-Quran does not allow Holy Wars. Quran allows a Muslim to fight in his defence.If someone attacks Muslims then he should fight his enemies.Muslims are allowed to do peace treaty with Non-Muslim.But if Non-Muslims brokes the treaty then Muslims can fight then.But in the time of peace treaty no Muslim can kill any Non-Muslim.

        You said that all invasions in subcontinent or anywhere by Muslim rulers occur because Quran.If it is correct then please tell me that is invasion of India and other colonies by British was because of BIBLE.

        In Medieval period every ruler tried to expand its kingdom.If ruler is powerful then he can expand his kingdom.Same was done by Mughals.Same was done by Alexander the Great much prior to Mughals.
        So your argument of blaming Quran for such invasions is invalid.

        Question 2-The Message of Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear.

        Answer-Yes, message is very clear that Non-believers should accept that there is only One God and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his last and final messenger.

        If they don’t believe then it is there fault and Muslims are not responsible for it.And Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.As Allah says in the Surah 109-

        “Say : O ye that reject Faith!
        I worship not that which ye worship,
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        To you be your way, and to me mine. ”

        So Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.

        But if Non-Muslims wants to fight then a Muslims has to fight in there self-defence.

        You says that you can give many quotes from Quran that encourages fight.But you should check that after every verse about fighting there is a verse which said that Peace is better then Fighting.

        I am not brainwashed Muslim.But for sure you are brainwashed Anti-Muslim

        Yes,If you don’t beleive Muhammad is the last prophet and you don’t believe the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then you are Kafir(Non-Believer) according to Quran.But Quran did not allow to kill or behead you.As in the above quoted Surah ‘To you be your way, and to me mine’.Quarn only allow to kill Kafir in Battle Field.

        Yes if Non-Muslims live in Islamic state they had to give Jizya Tax.It is because for example anybody who lives in India and has good income has to give a tax.Whether he is Muslim,Hindu or Christain etc.Similarly in Islamic state everybody has to give a tax Muslims has to give Zakaat Tax and Non-Muslims has to give Jizya Tax.So what is the problem.And I must tell you that Jizya Tax is much lower then the Zakaat Tax.

        Now your other Questions-

        Question 3- Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve.

        Answer-Where do you find that Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat.
        Instead Allah Almighty says in Quran that He made the earth as an egg. We all know today that earth is spherical and science did confirm that the earth is indeed egg-shaped.

        Also where do you find that earth is around 4-6000 years old in Quran.

        And let me inform you that Universe is not infinite nor eternal because today science tells us that Universe has its beginning and also has its End.

        Question 2-All Muslim countries are burning.

        Answer- First of all you cannot judge Islam by looking what today Muslims are doing.If you want to judge Islam then you have to look at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

        Let me also inform you that in Muslims there are much less castes then other religions.I don’t know more then 10 or at highest 15 castes in Muslims.But in Christains there are hundreds of castes in denomination and they have there own churches.In Hindus there are thousands of castes and each has its own God.

        But in Muslims maybe there would be some castes but the basics are same that ‘There is not God but Allah and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his messenger’.I have not come across a single Muslim which says there in more then one God or says that Muhammad(pbuh) is God.

        Also i agree that some Muslims drink alcohol.But if taken as a whole then Muslim community has the lowest rate of Alcohol consumption then any other religious group in world.

        Question 3- If you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just because it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Muhammad really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s’s death.

        Answer-For a book or text claiming to be from God it should not have any scientific errors,contradictions,mistakes.
        Now days Torah(Old Testament) and Bible(Old+New Testament) both has major scientific errors and various contradictions.
        But for, Quran it doest not have a single scientific error, not a single contradiction.

        So you can easily prove that Quran is God’s Word.

        For your kind information Mohammad(pbuh) has never seen God.

        Quran was not written 20 years after Muhammad(pbuh) .
        After his death there were different dialect or ways of reading Quran as England English and USA English has different dialect or ways of pronunciation.
        So to stop any dispute in future about which dialect is correct the Caliph of that time collected all dialect of Quran in one place and choose only one dialect which was real and burn all others.
        So the contents of Quran always remains same.

        A true Muslim believes that every word of Quran is from God and it should be followed.And after only following it their can be peace and harmony.

        Hope misconceptions are cleared.
        For more question please write back.

        Thanks
        Abdulah
        [email protected]

      • To Abdullah:

        My “misconeptions” cannot be cleared because my conceptions of things are governed and influenced by logic and reason which fundamentally means that I cannot relate to Islam in any way regarding my approach to life, my desire for spirituality and thrist for knowledge.

        Regarding the quote I sent you. Again, why are you using ZAKIR NAIK’s apologetic analysis, why can’t you make your own. Trust me, I have seen nearly all his videos on youtube and this has propelled me to do further research on Islam. Yes, he has excellent MEMORY for sure, but if you take your time and investigate by YOURSELF everything he talks about, you will quickly understand that he INTERPRETS the Quran which suits his OWN AGENDA which is to spread and glorify Islam so he can keep his multi-million dollar foundation IRF alive. I mean, you had “scientists” back in the 1950s and 60s that were supporting the consumption of cigarettes – Mr. Naik is no different in his manner to promote one of the diseases to human intellect and life: ISLAM.

        However, regarding the quote:

        It clearly states UNBELIEVERS. Now, what is an unbeliever according to the Quran my friend? Is it someone who does not believe the Quran to be the word of God? Is it an idol worshipper? Is it someone who does not believe that Mohammed is the last prophet? Is it a Hindu? Sikh? Buddist? Jain? Is it the 87% of Indian population you consider to be your brothers and sisters? I fully agree that an army general has all the right to boost morale of his or her’s soldiers but the morality or reason of the battle/war makes the difference. The Quran paints everyone who doesn’t follow its doctrines ie a non-muslim as an ENEMY and hence allows wars and tyranny to be showered upon them. This is what I’ve been trying to tell you, but you divert from the question as one should expect from a devout Muslim as yourself.

        When you can defend the Quran through a social, spiritual and intellectual perspective, then I suggest you should consider to share your view in forums such as these which endorse these type of traits.

        Further, regarding the captives. Do you feel that in modern warfare that you hold prisoners for ransom ie putting a MONETARY and not DIPLOMATIC price for their release? Surely, this does not happen between sovereign nations today but is definately tactics of guerrilas such as Maoists, Taleban, LeT etc. You cannot say the days of Mohammed…The Quran’s messages are supposed to be implemented even today as they are eternal right? Again, as you described, I got the impression that Mohammed was a war-monger…You really think God selected a barbarian (Mleccha) to be his last and final prophet?

        Holy Wars:

        Fair enough. I do martial arts myself, I beleive in self-defence and not in aggressive behaviour to provoke, irritate etc. But please then explain how Islam spread came to the continent. You said the Quran allows Muslims to fight in self-defence, but NO Indian army has ever had a military campaign outside its borders to promote religion, or to take land, etc. The wars faught by Indian Kings and Emporers were often between themselves. So, explain how Islam entered India in the North? Explain the temple sackings. Explain the problems in Ayodhya. Explain how the hell there is a mosque next to Krishna’s birthplace in Mathura? I have myself seen it. Explain then because two things are for sure:

        1) Dharmic people (Hindus, Sikhs, Buddists, Jain) etc never entered Arabian pensinula, Persia etc to fight or to destroy way of life.

        2) Islamic armies did not come to Indian territory by singing “Aum Shanti Shanti”.

        Regarding the British. If you read the logs of Lord McCulay you will see ONE of the intentions with British mission. Just as the Muslims, their quest was based on two things:

        1) Financial
        2) Cultual

        Muslims and British were successful with the first point where as Muslims were more successful in the second compared to the Brits. And yes, the Bible is not so open towards other religion. If you read the first 3 commandments and if you use a spark of your analytical and intellectual capability I am sure you possess, you will understand. But yes, Brits were not as successful with their conversions as Muslims were.

        Haven’t you ever done a trace in your family line just to see who your ancestors ORIGINALLY were?

        Well, Alexander failed. The Mughals didn’t. Just because other tried doesn’t make it right. If I try to commit suicide and I fail, but you do and succeed doesn’t make the action itself right – another Zakir Naik inspired analogy for you (but I made this one up myself). What differentates the Mughals is that many scholars including Richard Dawkins have said that verses in the Quran somehow SANCTIONS these acts. It’s very easy to gain motivaton and morale from the teachings and it was one of the reasons why Mughals were so united and managed to seize a very intellectually open and progessive “Hindustan”

        For the sake of argument, lets say that Quran doesn’t allow compulsion. But what type of feelings and emotions does it spawn towards the disbeliever? You have these madrassas all over the Muslim world and even in India teaching Muslims verses such as these IN ADDITION to all the wonderful things you claim:

        [8:55] The worst creatures in the sight of GOD are those who disbelieved; they cannot believe.

        [63:3] This is because they believed, then disbelieved. Hence, their minds are blocked; they do not understand.

        [63:4] When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks. And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence. They are like standing logs. They think that every call is intended against them. These are the real enemies; beware of them. GOD condemns them; they have deviated.

        [4:105] We have sent down to you the scripture, truthfully, in order to judge among the people in accordance with what GOD has shown you. You shall not side with the betrayers.

        If GOD himself has such opinions about me and the other disbelievers then it sounds as like it will be forgiven to destroy me. Use your head Abdullah, you are only Muslim by birth, but you are Indian at heart. Islam is non-Indian and non-human approach to life. You are not like this. Think.

      • I never said the Universe is infinite in LIFE. It is infinite in space and expansion and yes, will eventually end. However, you missed my point. We are counting in trillions while Islam is counting in 6 days…Explain Adam and Eve…Furthermore, Islam beleives the Earth is centre of the universe and refutes the possiblity of life outside earth! We beleive there have been infinite amount of universes BEFORE this one and that the universe experiences cycles…Islamic thought is linear.

        However, I forgot to answer regarding Islamic cosmology/scientific errors and view of the universe:

        – Let’s make on thing clear. Don’t try to be smart…Egg shaped DOES NOT equal to Spherical shaped. If Allah wanted it to be Spherical, he would have said so. But various translation have given 79:30 to be Earth is flat. But even if it was egg shaped it is wrong:

        http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/95f/5a3/95f5a3ee-cc20-424d-9abc-6e96ec8c343b

        – The Qur’an author was ignorant of the actual scientific knowledge except rehashing the prevalent scientific error of his contemporary. Today we know sperm comes from the testicles, not from between the spine and ribs. Also, the Qur’an author did not mention the role of the ovum due to his sole observation of the sperm during intercourse. This verse fails to mention the important role of the female egg in the reproduction of humankind.

        [86:5] Let the human reflect on his creation.

        [86:6] He was created from ejected liquid.

        [86:7] From between the spine and the viscera.

        [15:26] We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter’s clay.

        – Describing shooting stars as missiles of the Devil when we know that stars just as the sun, universe etc has a life cycle of their own:

        [67:5] We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a retribution in Hell.

        – Adam and Eve which just highlights Islam is just a “refinement” of Jewish and Christian beliefs. How are these beliefs indeginous and related to India? Furthermore, you beleive humanity started from one couple? Where they white, black, brown? There is no evidence that we started and its not even possible if you think logically. The same way there are different animals and plants depending on the environment and source, we have different humans. Yes, we originated from one geographical location while earth was still in pangeatic state. However, to say we are from one couple is ludacris and lacking proof.

        [2:35] We said, “O Adam, live with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom generously, as you please, but do not approach this tree, lest you sin.”

        [2:36] But the devil duped them, and caused their eviction therefrom. We said, “Go down as enemies of one another. On Earth shall be your habitation and provision for awhile.”

        – According to Islam, the Sun and stars are two completely different things. Modern science tells differently:

        [7:54] Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe.

        – The earth was created prior to the heaven. How does this make sense?

        [2:29] He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven universes therein,* and He is fully aware of all things.

        [41:9] Say, “You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe.”*

        [41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.

        Placed on stabilzers (mountains). Contradiction here? Earth might be flat?

        – Places like Hawaii and LA are on the opposite side of earth to Mecca. Since the Earth is spherical, it’s not possible to bow down towards the direction of Mecca when you are in these places, unless Muhammad and his companions thought that the earth was flat.

        [2:149] Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do.

        – The evidence of Black Hole indicates certain degree of instability in the galaxy. Black holes absorb stars and even galaxies in regions of space where from which no entity, including light, can escape.

        [67:3] He created seven universes in layers. You do not see any imperfection in the creation by the Most Gracious. Keep looking; do you see any flaw?

        – Current technology, such as sonography, has enabled observation of baby’s gender through ultrasonic imaging. There are also sex selection clinics that allow gender determination. Plus, today’s technology has even allowed us to stop child birth through abortion. However, I am in no way glorifying this…

        [31:34] With GOD is the knowledge about the Hour (end of the world). He is the One who sends down the rain, and He knows the contents of the WOMB. No soul knows what will happen to it tomorrow, and no one knows in which land he or she will die. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

        – Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship. These creatues are known as ASEXUAL. The whiptail lizard in the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, and South America, which consists only of females who reproduce by parthenogenesis. Allah does not know anything about the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced. Today we know you can find an organism which creates a genetically-similar or identical copy of itself without a contribution of genetic material from another individual. There’s also hermaphrodites.

        [51:49] We created a pair (male and female) of everything, that you may take heed.

        Let me assure you all these verses are translted with appropirate authorization by Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD.

        Hope the truth enlightens you.

        Salkia

      • Part 1-Answers to Salkis for “so called Scientific Errors in Quran”. A must read.

        Dear Salkia

        1-You said that Universe is infinite in space and expansion .

        Answer-Ok,it means that you belive that Universe is infinite in expansion or Universe is continually Expanding

        Now, I ask you a question when did science find this fact.And the answer is-

        At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.
        This fact was proved also by observational data in 1929 by Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer.
        The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding.

        This fact was explained in the Qur’an 1400 years ago.
        In verse 51:47 “”And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.”

        The word “heaven”, as stated in this verse, is used in various places in the Qur’an with the meaning of space and universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning. In other words, in the Qur’an it is revealed that the
        universe “expands”. And this is the very conclusion that science has reached today.

        This is because the Qur’an is the word of God, the Creator, and the Ruler of the entire universe.

        2-You also said that You or Hindus or Vedas are counting the creation of Universe in trillions while Islam is counting in 6 days.

        Answer-Let us look at Noble Verse
        7:54 “Your Guardian-Lord Is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the Throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil O’er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!”

        According to the Noble Quran, the initial stage of the Universe was created in six days. But however, the Universe is not static. It is dynamic and constantly changing and expanding.

        Let us look at Noble Verse 51:47 “And the firmament, We constructed with power and skill and verily We are expanding it.”

        The Universe according to the Noble Quran will keep expanding and changing until the Day of Judgment.

        The Universe will also shrink: “The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)”

        The Galaxies of the Universe will all explode: “And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY-LIKE PAINT – (The Noble Quran, 55:37)”

        Allah Almighty never gave any number for the Universe’s age. Muslims do not believe that humans for instance existed only 5,000 years ago and will die in year 2000 or 2059 as many Christians believe.

        Also, the word used in Quran for 6 Days in 7:54 also means 6 long periods of time.

        3-Islam refutes the possiblity of life outside earth.

        Answer-In Sura 42,Verse 29 (42:29) of the Quran,we are told,

        “Among His (God’s) signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth,and the living creatures that He has scattered through them :and He has power to gather them together when He wills.”

        On the same verse,Yusuf Ali comments, “Life is not confined to our one little Planet.It is a very old speculation to imagine some life like human life on the planet Mars…it is reasonable to suppose that Life in some form or other is scattered through some of the millions of heavenly bodies scattered through space.”

        From such remarks,the we will realize that Muslim scholars are well aware of the fact that 42:29 clearly mentions the existence of aliens.

        4-Various translation have given 79:30 to be Earth is flat.Egg shaped DOES NOT equal to Spherical shaped. If Allah wanted it to be Spherical, he would have said so.

        Answer-Lets look at verse 79:30- “And the earth, moreover,hath He made egg shaped.”[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

        The Arabic word used in this verse is Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

        You by yourself type “Ostrich Egg” in Google search bar to confirm it or
        Check these links-

        http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Ostrich_egg.jpg&i
        mgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ostrich_egg.jpg&h=1512&w=2016&sz=1429&tbnid=0TATuEOGc_nz9M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images3Fq3DOstrich2Begg&zoom=1&q=Ostrich+egg&hl=en&usg=__akdPc1htDfJI7BbBnZRn6Er5S24=&sa=X&ei=9kscTeyBD8vxrQfAy5GMDA&ved=0CBoQ9QEwAA

        http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=https://www.ostrichesonline.com/pictures/general/040415omlette-big02.j
        pg&imgrefurl=https://www.ostrichesonline.com/general/040415omlette.html&h=423&w=640&sz=46&tbnid=dtyWrzsWzEGM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=137&prev=/images3Fq3DOstrich2Begg&zoom=1&q=Ostrich+egg&hl=en&usg=__cyLHi9AS92ILewEHaAAQwcaRvGY=&sa=X&ei=9kscTeyBD8vxrQfAy5GMDA&ved=0CBwQ9QEwA
        Q

        I know that you will say that in verse 20:53 it is said that Earth spread out like a carpet.So there is contradiction.But there is no contradiction.Lets analyse-

        Let us look at verse 20:53,
        “He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)….”[Al-Qur’an 20:53]

        The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
        Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface
        Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.
        Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it.
        The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

        Next part of this question is that If Allah wanted it to be Spherical, he would have said so.
        Brother,In Arabic the word dahaahaa means spherical or egg-shaped.Quran was revealed in Arabic and not in

        English.So your this argument is not valid.

      • Part 2-Answers to Salkis for “so called Scientific Errors in Quran”

        5-Salkia said ‘Today we know sperm comes from the testicles, not from between the spine and ribs’.

        Answer-The Quran does not mention ‘semen production’ in verses 86:5-7. Nor anywhere else!

        The Quran simply states that man is created from the ejaculated fluid, which is emitted from within the abdomen. (From “between the ribcage and the spine”)

        Did you think semen comes from the testicles.
        Does you think the semen is produced in the testicles? Or does you think that the semen comes from the testicles during coitus?

        It does not matter! You would be wrong whether you meant the former, or the later!

        Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus!

        And that is a scientific fact! Thirteen centuries ago even the scientific community thought that semen is produced in the testicles. A pity! you thinks so even today.

        The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles.

        Does the Quran say the semen is produced in the kidneys?

        Absolutely not!

        It says simply that man is created from the liquid that is ejaculated. During coitus that liquid springs from the abdomen (“between the ribcage and the spine”). That is a scientific fact!

        1400 years ago, even doctors thought semen springs from the testicles during coitus. They were wrong of course! Recent discoveries have proven them wrong!

        Semen is stored in vesicles that lie in the abdomen. From there it is ejaculated during coitus. Lay people still think that the ejaculate comes from the testicles.

        The Quran does not say where semen is produced. Just where it comes from during coitus!

        In fact, if the Quran had said that the semen is produced in the abdomen, (“between the ribcage and the spine”), and not the testicles, it would still be accurate. At least 95 to 98% accurate! Only 2-5% of the semen is contributed by the testicles. The rest is produced in the glands located in the pelvic cavity.

        But the Quran does not say where the semen is produced, because the Quran is not 98% accurate. It is 100%

        ACCURATE!

        What does the Quran really say?
        Question: What is it that man is created from?
        Answer:(He is) created from the surging fluid! 87:6

        Famous translators have rendered this verse as-

        “Created from a drop emitted” (Yusuf Ali). “Created from a gushing fluid” (Pickthal).

        The Quran does not use the word ‘sperm’, nor the word ‘semen’, nor does it say anything about the production of semen or sperm.

        The emphasis is clearly on the words “the surging, the welling out, the pouring forth, the shedding, and the flowing out of the fluid”.

        Simply put, it is the ejaculate that fertilizes. And that is the simple truth. The simple scientific truth!

        Can the Sperm alone fertilize the human ovum?

        Sperm alone cannot even move very well. They need energy to swim to the egg and penetrate it. That is provided by fructose, a sugar produced by the seminal vesicles.
        Prostaglandin hormones are needed to suppress an immune response by the female against the foreign semen.
        Zinc is needed to stabilize the DNA of the sperms.
        Metal and salt ions are needed to make the pH of the vaginal cavity favorable for the sperm to survive.
        Lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids are also needed to perform vital functions.

        The ejaculated fluid has all that is needed, including the sperms (2-5% sperms, 95-98% other ingredients). The statement of the Quran is absolutely correct!

        Where does the semen spring from during coitus?

        During coitus semen is ejaculated from the two storage areas called the seminal vesicles, and NOT FROM THE TESTICLES.

        Let man look at (and bear in mind) the substance he is created from! (He is) created from the surging fluid, which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:5-7

        What is definitely excluded is the scrotal pouch, which is below the spine! Semen does not spring from there during coitus!
        Also excluded is the thorax, since it is not between the ribcage and the spine, but is rather inside the ribcage.The area not excluded is the abdomen and the pelvic cavity! The Quran is 100% correct. Semen is stored in the seminal vesicles to be ejaculated during coitus.

        The exact words of the Quran

        The exact Arabic words: Bain usSulbe watTaraib

        Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back; Taraib = ribs, breastbone, chest.
        Bain = between, among, amidst

        It is a phrase in Arabic that is similar to the English phrase, “somewhere between the front and the back”It would mean that the semen springs from “somewhere between the front and the back” of the body. In other
        words, somewhere from inside the body!

        If one was to insist upon the literal meaning, one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too. The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

        If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

        The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx!

        (He is) created from the surging fluid! Which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:6-7.

        6-You said” the Qur’an author did not mention the role of the ovum due to his sole observation of the sperm during intercourse. This verse fails to mention the important role of the female egg in the reproduction of humankind”

        Answer-Brother,Now I have understood that you are just copying and pasting from some Anti-Islami site because if you had yourself studied the Quran then you would not makes such stupid argument.

        Because,Allah clearly says in-
        Surah 76:2-“We created the human from a liquid mixture, from two parents, in order to test him. Thus, we made him a hearer and a seer”.

        So,it is clear that this verse says that humans are created from a liquid mixture from two parent or in other word from a mixed sperm-drop from the intermingling of the male sperm with the female ovum and not separately from
        the sperm or the ovum.

        So,your this arguement is not valid.

        You also quoted Verse 15:26-
        “We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter’s clay”.

        So,what is a problem in this verse
        This verse indicates that at first the image of man was made of clay from rotten earth and when it dried up, soul was breathed into it.

        Today science agrees that all humans are made up of clay/soil.

        So,there is no contradiction in 76:2 and 15:26 because 76:2 tells that how humans are reproduced now by reproduction and 15:26 tells how the image and structure of first man was created.

        7-You said”Describing shooting stars as missiles of the Devil when we know that stars just as the sun, universe etc has a life cycle of their own”.

        Answer-Lets look at the verse you quoted.
        Verse 67:5-“We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a retribution in Hell”.

        This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens. Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers(furtunetellers), and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close
        contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Qur’an, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility of the Satans’ ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen.

        8-You said”Adam and Eve which just highlights Islam is just a “refinement” of Jewish and Christian beliefs. How are these beliefs indeginous and related to India” Furthermore, you beleive humanity started from one couple? Where they white, black, brown? There is no evidence that we started and its not even possible if you think ogically. The same way there are different animals and plants depending on the environment and source, we have different humans.

        Answer-Similarities between Jewish,Christains and Islamic believes are because they have come from same source that is Almighty Allah.But Jewish and Christains sciptures are changed by men.And also the original languages i.e. Hebrew and Aaramic in which Torah and Bible was reaveled are dead.But the original language in which Quran is revealed is still alive.And it is still the one of the six official languages of US.And Arabic is the only ancient language which is alive and people still speaks it.

        Simialar is the case with Adam and Eve.

        Yes,I belive that humanity started from one couple.I dont know whether they were white or black.The differences in the colors of humans has came latter from their different geographical residencial position and climatical condition of that area.

        Let us read the research or evidence below-
        In 1987, a team at the University of California at Berkeley published this reasearch.

        Virtually all cells of every living thing (plants, animals, and humans) contain tiny strands of coded information called DNA. DNA directs the cell, telling it what to produce and when. Therefore, much of your appearance and personality is determined by DNA you inherited from your parents.

        In human cells, the nucleus contains 99.5% of the DNA. Half of it came from the individual’s mother and half from the father. Because both halves are shuffled together, it is difficult to identify which parent contributed any tiny segment. In other words, half of this DNA changes with each generation. However, outside the nucleus of each cell are thousands of little energy-producing components called mitochondria, each containing a circular strand of DNA. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) comes only from the mother. Where did she get hers? From her mother—and so on. Normally, mtDNA does not change from generation to generation.

        In 1987, a team at the University of California at Berkeley published a study comparing the mtDNA of 147 people from five of the world’s geographic locations.2 They concluded that all 147 had the same female ancestor. She is now called “the mitochondrial Eve.”

        Is there a “genetic Adam”? A man receives from his father a segment of DNA which lies on the Y chromosome; this makes him a male. Where did your father receive his segment? From his father. If we all descended from one man, all males should have the same Y chromosome segment—except for rare mutations.

        A 1995 study of a worldwide sample of 38 men showed no changes in this segment of the Y chromosome that is always inherited from fathers.
        expected.Yes, new discoveries show that we carry traces of Adam and Eve in our cells

        I know that science has still not 100% proved Adam and Eve Theory but science has also not proves that it is FALSE.And because of this Darwins Evolution Theory still remanis theory and not scientific fact.

        9-You said” We humans originated from one geographical location while earth was still in pangeatic state”.

        Answer-No people were not around when Pangaea was. The time of Pangaea was before the time of the dinosaurs (they came in the Jurasic era) and we are supposed to have evoled from some types of dinosuars.
        This is simple knowledge of history and Science agrees with that .This proves that you did not have enough scientific knowledge.

        It is fact that Human came after Dinasaurs and Dinasaurs were after Pangaeatiic period so how can Humans orginated while earth was in pangeatic state.

        10-You said”According to Islam, the Sun and stars are two completely different things”.

        Answer-Let us look at the verse you quoted-
        [7:54] Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority.

        The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the
        universe.

        Where in this verse is written that Sun and Stars are two completely different things.
        This tells me that you have failed to point out Mistakes in Quran so you are just giving nonsense arguments.

      • Part-3–Answers to Salkis for “so called Scientific Errors in Quran”.

        11-You said”The earth was created prior to the heaven”.

        Answer-First, The Quran does not lay down a definitive sequence of events.For example, it does not say First he did this, Second he did this, Third he did this, Fourth he did this, Fifth he did this, and Sixth he did this, giving us the total of the 6 periods of creation mentioned in many places in the Quran.Incidentally, each time we are told that creation is completed in six periods the word heaven always precedes the word earth.

        Second it is interesting to note that Surah 41:9-12 is probably the most descriptive Surah with regard to the creation of the Universe. However, the statement that creation was completed in 6 periods is never reiterated at the beginning of 41:9-12 or any other place in this chapter. Consequently, the statement appears seven times in the Quran, thus suggesting that these verses were not intended to be viewed as A COMPLETE SEQUENTIAL ACCOUNT of creation. If it were, one would expect the statement to appear again at the beginning of verse nine or at the very least somewhere in the chapter, but it doesn’t; I wonder why.

        Wait it gets better, the Quran did not intend for these verses to be interpreted sequentially because if one does the math the periods add up to eight and not six (2+4+2), thus, rendering these verses a mere description of non-sequential overlapping events. Surely, Allah could count to six. Hence, because we have overlapping events we must take this into account when we try to put together an account of the creation process.

        Fourth, the earth could not possibly be the first thing created in the sequence because 79:27-30 states that in no uncertain terms beyond a shadow of a doubt that Allah created the heavens before the earth. Hence, these verses are not a sequential account of the 6 periods of creation and thus must be viewed both jointly and severally in relation to the whole Quranic account of creation. The word “then” in verses 2:29 and 41:11 is “Tumma”; it can mean “and also or moreover.” Many translators of the Quran incorrectly use the word “then.” The
        sentence structure clearly breaks and the facts are separate accounts.

        The following are some key verses that deal with creation in the Quran. It must be remembered that many of these verses would be occurring non-sequential and concurrent just as 41:9-12 implies.

        POSSIBLE DESCRIPTION OF EVENTS

        PERIODS 1
        THE BIG BANG CAME FIRST -The big bang occurred as a result of massive energy. Plasma eventually was formed.

        21:30 “Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, but we have opened them.”- Translation M.H. SHAKIR, YUSAF ALI

        (THE HEAVEN AND EARTH WERE IN A FORM (PLASMA) AND DEFINITELY NOT IN THE FORM WE PRESENTLY SEE THEM OTHERWISE HOW COULD THEY HAVE BEEN JOINED? HOWEVER ALLAH INSISTS ON ADDRESSING THEM AS EARTH AND HEAVEN. THUS, IT FOLLOWS WHEN ALLAH SPEAKS OF EARTH AND HEAVEN THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY TO BE CONSTRUED AS FULLY DEVELOPED ENTITIES AS WE KNOW THEM, FOR THEY WERE IN AN “OPENED” STATE.)

        PERIOD 2
        THEN CAME A VAPOR/GAS THAT WAS DESTINED TO BE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH DURING THIS “OPEN” STATE -Plasma later cooled to gases (helium and hydrogen).

        41:11 Moreover, he directed himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so he said to it and to the earth Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.” – Translation M.H. SHAKIR, YUSAF ALI

        (THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH ALL BEING PART OF THE SAME GAS/VAPOR (OR “OPENED” ENTITY) AS DESCRIBED ABOVE WERE DESTINED TO “COME WILLINGLY” INTO EXISTENCE. MOREOVER,
        SINCE WE ARE TOLD IN 79:27 THAT THE CREATION OF THE HEAVEN CLEARLY PREDATED THAT OF THE EARTH, THE EARTH MUST HAVE BEEN PART OF THIS PRIMORDIAL MATTER AND DEFINITELY NOT DEVELOPED. NO SKEPTIC CAN RATIONALLY DENY THIS, OTHERWISE THE SENTENCE WOULD NOT MAKE SENSE: SHALL WE SAY THAT WHEN ALLAH SAID, “DO YOU COME WILLINGLY” HE INTENDED TO RE-IMPLODE THE BIG BANG!)

        PERIODS 3 AND 4

        THE CREATION OF THE HEAVENS -Eventually, the gasses condensed into the stars.

        41:12 “So he ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and made it to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the knowing.” -Translation M.H. SHAKIR

        67:3 “God is the one who created seven heavens one above another.” – Translation M.H. SHAKIR

        THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

        51:47 “With power and skill did we construct the heaven: For it is we who expand the vastness of Space.” -Translation YUSAF ALI, MAURICE BUCAILLE.

        PERIODS 5 AND 6

        EARTH IS COMPLETED AFTER THE HEAVENS -Stars eventually exploded and recondensed over numerous cycles, forming the heavy elements that later condensed into planets.

        79:27-30 “Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it. He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state. And he made dark its night and brought out its light. And the earth, he expanded it after that.” -Translation M.H. SHAKIR

        41:9 “Say: What! Do you indeed disbelieve in him who created the earth in two periods, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.” – Translation M.H. SHAKIR

        41:10 “He set on (the earth). Mountains standing firm, High above it, And bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four periods, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (sustenance).” -Translation YUSAF ALI

        (THE FOUR PERIODS DESCRIBED IN THIS VERSE COULD BE SUB-PERIODS OF THE PRIMARY TWO

        PERIODS DESCRIBED IN 41:9)

        A DESCRIPTION OF HOW GOD CREATED THE EARTH AND A SEPARATE DESCRIPTION OF HOW HE CREATED THE HEAVEN. NO SEQUENCE OF EVENTS IS ESTABLISHED FROM THIS VERSE.

        2:29 “He it is who created for you all that is in the earth (I.E 41:10); and also he directed himself to the heaven, so he made them complete seven heavens (I.E 41:12)” – Translation M.H. SHAKIR.

        12-You said”Placed on stabilzers (mountains). Contradiction here? Earth might be flat”?

        Answer-Lets look at verse you quoted-
        [41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.

        Where this verse said or indicated that Eart is flat.You tell me.
        This verse says that Mountains prevent the earth from shaking and science also tells us this fact today.

        13-You sais”Places like Hawaii and LA are on the opposite side of earth to Mecca. Since the Earth is spherical, it’s not possible to bow down towards the direction of Mecca when you are in these places, unless Muhammad and his companions thought that the earth was flat”.

        Answer- I must tell you that Hawaii and LA are in United States of America.And daily 5 times a day millions of Muslim from US pray towards Kaaba.So, if it is impossible to bow towars Kaaba(Mecca) from US then are those millions of men are fools.

        I have proven to you that Eart his spherical according to Quran above so look at it again.

        14-You said”The evidence of Black Hole indicates certain degree of instability in the galaxy. Black holes absorb stars and even galaxies in regions of space where from which no entity, including light, can escape”.

        Answer-Well I thinks that Black Hole process is not a instability.Like all other things in Universe Black Holes are also doing there work of ending the life of stars and galaxies.

        Same will one day happen to our Universe.A Black Hole will end the universe and science agrees that.

        But also this fact is mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago-
        In verse 21:105 Allah says- “Remember the day when We shall roll up the heavens like the rolling up of written scrolls “.

        It speaks of a future when the heavens will be rolled up, in a manner similar to the rolling up of a scroll. Scientific descriptions illustrating the making of a black hole, very closely resemble what the Quran describes in the above verse.
        A mass of accretion from space falling into a black hole, as described above, would be pressed into a sheet under the enormous pressure created by the gravitational and electromagnetic forces. As the centre of the black hole is constantly revolving around itself, this sheet—as it approaches—will begin to be wrapped around it, before disappearing into the realm of the unknown at last.

        15-You said-“Current technology, such as sonography, has enabled observation of baby’s gender through ultrasonic imaging.”

        Answer-Lets look at the verse you quoted-
        [31:34] With GOD is the knowledge about the Hour (end of the world). He is the One who sends down the rain, and He knows the CONTENTS of the WOMB. No soul knows what will happen to it tomorrow, and no one knows in which land he or she will die. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

        The word ‘sex’ is not mentioned in the verse of the Qur’an
        It is true that many translations and commentaries of this verse of the Glorious Qur’an say that only Allaah knows the sex of the child in the mother’s womb. If you read the Arabic text of this verse, there is no Arabic word corresponding to the English word ‘sex’. In fact the Qur’an says the knowledge of what is in the womb is with Allah alone. Many commentators have misunderstood it to mean only Allah knows the sex of the child in the womb, which is a mistake.

        No one besides Allaah can determine the nature of the child
        This verse does not refer to the sex of the child in the womb but it refers to, how the child in the mother’s womb will be. How will his nature be? Will he be a blessing or a curse to his parents? Will he be a boon or a bane to the society? Will he be good or evil? Will he go to heaven or hell? The complete knowledge of all things is with Allaah alone. No scientist in the world, no matter how advanced his equipment, will ever be able to accurately determine the knowledge of these things about the child in the mother’s womb.

        16-You said”Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship. These creatues are known as ASEXUAL .The whiptail lizard in the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, and South America, which
        consists only of females who reproduce by parthenogenesis. Allah does not know anything about the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced. Today we know you can find an organism which creates a genetically-similar or identical copy of itself without a contribution of genetic material from another individual. There’s also hermaphrodites”.

        Answer-
        1-Hermaphrodite species are those that have both the male and female organs and can reproduce by themselves due to those organs:

        “The term is sometimes used inaccurately to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can reproduce by themselves because they contain reproductive organs of both sexes.”

        Certainly, these species do not contradict at all the Glorious Quran. On the contrary, they further prove Allah Almighty’s Divine Claims, because here we have a group of species that still need to reproduce by having the pairs in them. Yes, it would be one specie reproducing by itself, assuming that this is scientifically accurate to begin with, since much of these studies are still unconfirmed theories, as shown below, especially in the microscopic world, but be as it may, each specie in this group, nonetheless:is still a representation of the pairs. It could be one or the other or both.

        Wouldn’t be able to reproduce if it didn’t have those two organs in it.

        Still produces both males and females, as further shown below.
        Therefore, this group of species certainly testifies to the Divine Miracle of the Glorious Quran, because the pairs exist among them.

        2- Parthenogenesis species are asexual or sexless. They are believed to not have any sex in them:

        “Parthenogenesis (from the Greek παρθένος parthenos, “virgin”, + γένεσις genesis, “creation”) is a form of asexual reproduction found in females, where growth and development of embryos occurs without fertilization by a male.
        In plants, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell, and is a component process of apomixis. The offspring produced by parthenogenesis are always female in species that use the XY sex-determination system.

        Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some invertebrate animal species (e.g. water fleas, aphids, nematodes, some bees, some Phasmida, some scorpion species, and parasitic wasps), and vertebrates (e.g. some reptiles,[1] fish, and very rarely birds[2] and sharks[3]) and this type of reproduction has been induced artificially in other species.

        Parthenogenesis is seen to occur naturally in aphids, Daphnia, rotifers, nematodes and some other invertebrates, as well as in many plants. Komodo dragons and the hammerhead- and blacktip sharks have recently been added to the list of vertebrates—along with several genera of fish, amphibians, and reptiles—that exhibit differing forms of asexual reproduction, including true parthenogenesis, gynogenesis, and hybridogenesis (an incomplete form of parthenogenesis). As with all types of asexual reproduction, there are both costs (low genetic diversity and therefore susceptibility to advers mutations that might occur) and benefits (reproduction without the need for a male) associated with parthenogenesis.

        The offspring of parthenogenesis will be all female if two like chromosomes determine the female sex (such as the XY sex-determination system), but they will be male if two like chromosomes determine the male sex (such as the ZW sex-determination system), because the process involves the inheritance and subsequent duplication of only a single sex chromosome. The offspring may be capable of sexual reproduction, if this mode exists in the species. In many cases, parthenogenesis occurs when one gender (typically the male) is unavailable in the general vicinity. Once males are again available, the parthenogenesis-created females would be capable of mating with the males and creating normal offspring

        As we clearly and indisputably see, the scientists themselves:

        1- Never unlocked all of the deep secrets of how these animals truly reproduce.

        2- Are unsure of how exactly the reproduction occurs with these species.

        3- These species are NOT ASEXUAL because they still do produce males and females as quotes above clearly state.

        4- The scientists claims are no more than speculations at best! They are uncertainties and doubts; unconfirmed science.

        Therefore, to use this bogus nonsense against Islam and against Allah Almighty is not acceptable. The scientists seem to have yet still to scratch the surface of unlocking the deep secretes of how these animals truly reproduce. All they have right now are unconfirmed and uncertain speculations, statements and theories. But in all cases, we still have the male and female reproductions among these species! So yes, the pairs are still there in these communities. A single specie of them is still either a male or female according even to those scientists.
        It is not a true asexual specie, and the scientists themselves are clearly uncertain about what to make of these species.

        I hope that this truth enlightens you.

        I welcome you and all to the only religion of One True God.

        Think man Think Choice is yours.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Dear Abdullah,

        The same way you accuse me of going to anti-Muslim sites (which I don’t) I can accuse you of going to the sites of petrol funded mullahs, imams and “scholars” who will give their life in defending, corrupting and interpreting verses in order to alter the Quran to suit the “target audience”.

        I can assure you that I take my quotes of the Quran from Dr. Rashad Khalifa, but as you have been quoting from Yusuf Ali, who could recite the Quran from heart and spoke Arabic fluently, I will do so too. So as you, as a devout (and hard-headed one I must say) Muslim has chosen Yusuf Ali’s version of the Quran, I will do so too.

        As I probably forced you to do research, I have noticed that you have the tendency (as all other Muslim who defends blindly) pick and choose specific theories within the same science to suit the Quran. I will highlight on this as you continue reading my response. One example I can give now to just to make sure you understand is regarding modern science’s theory regarding the ‘Big Bang’. Fair enough, according to Quran this simply means the ‘Creation’ – however, in the theory of ‘Big Bang’ you chose to extract the idea of an ever expanding universe as it is stated in the Quran but you forgot to mention the very foundation of the ‘Big Bang’: Evolution of matter and life on earth.

        The ‘Big Bang’ theory does not simply say how the universe started but also gives an idea how life on Earth developed. So you cannot simply say how the Quran matches with a FRACTION of what a modern scientific theory says and distance yourself from the bulk of it. Additionally, I can confidently say and I’m sure you agree with me that 99% of the scientists who have formed and developed the ‘Big Bang’ over the years laugh at the concept of Adam and Eve…That I will respond about later though. Finally, regarding the word ‘theory’:

        A scientific theory is a type of inductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory.

        Curry, Huskell B (1977). Foundations of Mathematical Logic: Dover.

        As you can see, the word “theory” in SCIENTIFIC respects means something that is based on logic, research and empirical data (hence, FACT). Obviously, this is not the ultimate definition of the word theory in scientific manner, but many other dictionaries including the Oxford dictionary, Merriam Webster etc. echo the same idea that a theory in scientific respects is governed by logic and empirical data extracted and based on research:

        – Theory of Gravity
        – The Theory of Radioactivity (aka Nuclear Theory)
        – Theory of Relatively (aka Relatively theory)
        – Theory of Evolution
        etc.

        Even though we take gravity for granted, it is still not known as the ‘Fact of Gravity’. It is still theory, but this doesn’t mean that it is false…
        So, I hope we can bury the debate regarding the word ‘theory’ in the scientific world. Yes, I agree, there might be some references in religious texts regarding these fields, but people like you and your source for knowledge Zakir Naik have maliciously confused people regarding the word ‘theory’.

        So, now to answer your long replies. I want to make one thing clear: Just because you give long replies with poor English and use ctrl C and ctrl V frequently does not mean I will do so. I will reply briefly and won’t answer all your arguments because I don’t think you have taken the time to review the quality of your language or content but just copied and pasted in hurry. Note, I am going to use Yusuf Ali’s translation now:

        – UNIVERSE:

        [79:30]:

        And the Earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse).

        (Waal-arda baAAda thalikadahaha)

        It is internationally known that there is an ongoing feud between Muslim scholars regarding 79:30. I was nice to you that I used Dr. Rashad’s version. Now look at the difference between the versions. Furthermore, Ali’s translation is the world’s most used translation and he is fluent in Arabic. Where does it say anything about ostrich egg because in Dr. Rashad’s translation, he never said ostrich egg shaped but just said egg shaped. However, you quoted some really old scientists from the early 20th century which just proves your ignorance to the fact the status cosmology and astronomy studies TODAY. In that case I ask you to refer to world famous and heavily awarded astronomer, astrophysicist, evolutionist, cosmologist etc. Carl Sagan and how he gives credit to the Hindu cosmology and says that it is the ONLY living religion/faith that is related to modern science with its ideas regarding the cosmos, universe, creation etc. Some ideas according to Hindu cosmology:

        – Universe is infinite in size (hence, expanding in our understanding of time).
        – Earth is around approx 4.32 billion years old (which is around a day of Brahma).
        – One universe life is approx. 314 trillion years old.
        – There have been infinite universes before this one.
        – There will be infinite universes after this one.
        – There are currently infinite universes/worlds beyond this current one.

        “The Hindu religion is the only one of the world’s great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still.”

        – Carl Sagan

        Please note, the Trimurti in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva represent forces of nature BUT it is the development of culture (i.e. art, music, dance etc) which has given these forces faces, songs, stories etc. But we do believe in one God/Allah. In the case of the Trimurti in respective order: Creation, Preservation and Destruction. Just because Hindu civilizations were open and socially free and allowed depiction, art, dance etc. in the name of God doesn’t mean the forces behind the pictures are wrong.

        The universe according to Quran:

        Is GEOCENTRIC and this my friend is refuted world over. Muslim scholars use the works of scientists which are superseded.
        Again, you’re using tactics to deviate from the question by presenting me the works of Friedmann and Lemaitre. The Quran was NOT FIRST with the idea that the universe is ever expanding. This is what Muslims need to get in their head. The Vedas are several 1000s of years old and there are some that suggest that it’s more than a billion years old! The fact is that the Vedas have revealed the secrets of the universe LONG before the Quran and still remains scientifically intact and more advanced the work of paedophile, womanizer, sex-addict Mohammed. Now, if I said this in a Muslim country, I would have been sentenced to death. If you are so in love with Islam, then go to a Muslim country and stay there – Pakistan was created for you. Islam does not have space in a modern and educated society and this is the reason your clergy oppose to people going to “Kuffar” schools.
        I suggest we leave the topic of cosmology until you read the relevant articles in Agniveer.com and that you get knowledge about the MESSAGE of the Hindu cosmology. However, if you have any questions regarding the relevant hymns from the Vedas, I suggest you direct your questions to Agniveer, and not to me.
        – LIFE outside Earth:
        [42:29]
        And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: He has power to gather them together when He wills.
        How does this mention life outside Earth? He has scattered life throughout the Earth and the heavens – simple. Life around the heavens probably means birds etc. and Earth means all the other forms of life. Finally, Allah has the power to gather them together when He wills: take their life…I think Muslims WANT to make it seem that there is extraterrestrial life only to make Quran seem avant-garde.
        – [20:53]
        [20:53]
        He who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky. With it have we produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.
        How is this advanced in any way? Ok, so the Earth has been made habitable for us…Thank you…How is this PROFOUND and ENLIGHTENING knowledge to mankind? Before this verse was written, mankind had already invented 0, built mysterious, temples, pyramids, calculated π to 5 significant figures, pointed down fantastic ideas about cosmology, made sciences about human health (Ayurveda), calculated the time of a year/universe etc. all without help and before your Quran. There is nothing NEW in your Quran but due to excessive marketing and branding funded by petrodollars you have a large distribution with your filth.
        – SPERM:
        I was just pointing out the errors of the Quran. I will not give you detailed reply about this topic as I don’t have such a burning passion for sperm which you, judging from your reply, apparently have:
        The BULK of the production is done in the testicles and during coitus, or ejaculation the sperm travel through the urethra, a hollow tube in the centre of the penis, and spurt out. This still doesn’t take away the fact that the sperm comes from testicles. It might travel to the penis from a different “journey” the start of the “journey” is still in the testicles. And if you want to be really precise, a drop of sperm contains many millions of sperms…

        – HUMAN body:
        You said:
        “Today science agrees that all humans are made up of clay/soil.”
        Which science? Science of Islam taught in madrassas or the science of reality? We might SHARE certain elements and compositions of clay and soil but how can you say humans are made of it? There is a limit of how much you can twist and turn facts, Abdullah. Our bodies share similar compositions of minerals and elements found in steel, iron etc but to say that we are made up of steel or iron is misleading. Good try though. But if Allah makes it clear that all humans are made from the same material, why will he spare the Muslims and not the Kuffars in the afterlife? We are all the same right or are the Kuffars made out of different materials? Maybe Kuffars are made of shit…? Abdullah my friend, you do justice to your name – you truly are a servant to your God…
        – PANGAEA:
        You are right, I might have been misinformed on this topic but my point was that there have been several human families apart from ONE single couple from where we originated.
        – ADAM and Eve:
        You did not answer the relationship with India regarding this belief and please, don’t lecture me on what DNA is. Have some respect towards your opponent. Just remember, DNA and “theory” of Evolution goes hand in hand in many aspects. Nonetheless, I am interested of how much you really understood of it yourself because I’m sure you didn’t bother to recheck what you pasted.
        Regarding the couple’s skin colour, Jewish and Christian beliefs painted them as white. However, the Quran doesn’t allow depictions probably because maybe they wanted to hide the “fact”. Also, regarding depictions, Mohammed suffered from acromegaly which basically meant a hormone imbalance in his body which made his body swell up and made him impotent which is probably the reason he wanted all women to be covered so he wouldn’t face competition for his multiple wives:
        http://islamgreatreligion.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/2154870907_649031f17b_o-copy.jpg
        Although, I’ll stick to the topic of Adam and Eve:
        You said:
        “The difference in the colour of humans has come from their different geographical residential position and climatically condition of that area.”
        So you agree people change due to environment, climate, location, geography which inevitably brings different diet, nutrition, elementary exposure (sun, air etc.) and which inevitably forces people to develop solutions in order to SURVIVE accordingly? And the survivors will hence reproduce and carry on the surviving genes?
        Kind of sounds like the “Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection” by Charles Darwin in a nutshell. Finally, the most important questions to you: If you believe in Adam and Eve why don’t you:
        – Have sexual intercourse with your mother?
        – Have sexual intercourse with your sister?
        – Were Adam and Eve Muslims?
        [2:170]
        When it is said to them; “Follow what Allah hath revealed.” They say: “Nay! We shall follow the ways of our fathers.” What! Even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?
        Will Mohammed’s parents go to Jannah? Will your Vedic Dharma ancestors go to Jannah? If I convert to Islam today, will I see my beloved grandparents, parents and brothers in Jannah? Quote me verses from Quran, not the words of your apologetic Mullah. Although, judging from knowledge of the Quran you possess, this might be misleading too.
        Nevertheless, Eve was probably a very naughty and promiscuous girl, or do you support her actions? Then go and have intercourse with your mother and sister to increase Muslim population. Allah wouldn’t mind right? Or he just allows cousins? Yeah, I have read that verse, he doesn’t mind first cousins. Furthermore, Islam believes that mankind is here because of the greed and temptation of man and condemns the action of Eve for picking the forbidden fruit…This is the story briefly behind Adam and Eve. This is absurd! Go spread you crap outside the intellectual borders of India.
        I say this confidently; Islam will not spread and survive in an India where the people are EDUCATED. The majority of India’s Muslims are poor, illiterate and uneducated and no wonder such faith appeals to them. The reason why Muslims are stuck in poverty is not because of government, it because you are still under control of your imams and mullahs and you threaten people for leaving or questioning Islam. You govern people by fear and hence you trap them in an evil cycle of intellectual regression.
        Even though Earth is billions of years old, it is still PRESERVED through evolution and natural selection. The same way cells inside of us die and produce new ones, the death of species gives birth to new…Hence, the “co-operation” between Brahma , Vishnu and Shiva as captivatingly outlined in Hindu culture…Finally, regarding this issue I would like to highlight a scientific meaning behind the avatars or reincarnation of Vishnu, i.e. the PRESERVER of life:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dqbfB7MO60
        – THE Kaaba worshippers:
        Take a globe. If you don’t know what a globe is, it is a spherical object that illustrates the shape of the Earth. If you don’t know what a sphere is, it is an object that resembles a cricket ball and NOT an egg or an ostrich egg for that matter! For the record, even an ostrich egg doesn’t resemble the shape of the Earth. Why didn’t Allah just say sphere? Was Mohammed’s IQ so low?
        I take it, you found a globe. Now, put your right index finger on Saudi Arabia and find Los Angeles with your left index finger. These are the on the opposite ends of the world so where do the worshippers face Arabia from western USA? Probably, facing East right? Think about it, the world is not 2-Dimensional. In that case one could use the logic to face the Kaaba west from Los Angeles because it is the same. Even if you face east from Los Angeles, your ass/back will still be shown to the Kaaba from western direction…You understand my point? Use the same logic for Australia, South America etc. With this logic, I wasn’t only trying to prove the deficiency of scientific knowledge but also the lack of common sense in the Quran! The universe is geocentric and the world is FLAT according to the Quran, Khalas!
        – BLACK Holes:
        You outlined in charismatic English:
        “Well, I think that Black Hole process is not instability.”
        If you don’t see the devouring of galaxies and light as instability I rest my case…
        Yes, I agree with you. Our universe will come to an end one day. Sages of the Vedas agreed on that millenniums and millenniums before your Quran.
        – [21:105]:
        Yusuf Ali:
        “Before this we wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.”
        Dr. Rashad Khalifa:
        “We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by my righteous worshipers.”
        Abdullah (You):
        “Remember the day when we shall roll up the heavens like the rolling up of written scrolls.”
        Your excuse for making up your own verse up and claiming it to be scientific fact shows that you aren’t taking our debate seriously and the fact that your quote is different from the above scholars just proves my point. Your version, however, makes the world seem flat again! How do you roll something that is spherical? Even though you meant the universe, modern science have said the universe will contract (i.e. shrink in size towards the source from all directions) in its destruction. The rolling up of a scroll indicated destruction from one side…Universe has numerous sides…Although, I’ll let you slip on this one, you didn’t even quote the right verse and you call yourself Muslim…

        – CURRENT technology such as sonography etc.:
        [31:34]
        “Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).”
        Fair enough, I might have interpreted the word content in [31:34] in a different manner to what it meant. However, I shall then counter it with:
        [Yajurveda 40.8]
        “He is One and only One, Sustains entire universe, Omnipresent, Formless, All-Powerful, Perfect, Omniscient, Unborn, Eternal and supports us always. He alone should be worshipped.”
        Which book was written before – the Vedas or the Quran? There are educated scholars who claim the Vedas is free from error as well. The people from Agniveer for example do so. I am sure they would love to debate with you regarding that. I am just highlighting errors in Quran and the scientific deficiency in it. If you want clarifications on Vedas, I repeat that you address your questions to Agniveer and not Salkia, hence, me.
        – ASEXUALITY:
        From what I understood, you do not believe in this phenomenon…Thank you for giving me a lecture on Parthenogenesis which you carelessly hijacked from Wikipedia. We have both presented our arguments and the fact that you believe the male versions exists inside of these species, I think it is fair for the readers to decide who will get the spoils even though Allah clearly states in [51:49] that there exists a pair for all species…
        – PRE-Quran scientists:
        You said in your previous mails how proud of an Indian you were. Here are some Indian (who were non-Muslim) scientists who found a lot of inspiration of their works from the Vedas. I will briefly describe them and their works and you will realise that the “revelations” of the QURAN were a bit LATE…
        – Shape and movement of the Earth:
        Aryabhata who lived during the 476 – 550 CE – around a century before the “avant-garde” Koran was written. Aryabhata worked on the approximation for pi (π) and calculated it to be around 3.1416 (5 sig. figures) and came to the conclusion that π is irrational. Centuries later, the Arab mathematician Mohammed Ibna Musa says that: This value has been given by the Hindus (Indians).
        The irrationality of pi was proved in Europe only in 1761 by Swiss mathematician Johann Heinrich Lambert. Aryabhata was also aware that the earth spins on its axis and that it moves round the sun and that the moon rotates round the earth. He discusses about the locations of the planets in relation to its movement around the sun. He refers to the light of the planets and the moon as reflections from the sun. He goes as far as to explain the eclipse of the moon and the sun, day and night and the contours of the earth.
        – Gravity:
        Gravity was known to the Indian astronomer Bhaskaracharya (ca 600-680 CE). In his ‘Surya Siddhanta’, he notes:
        “Object fall on the earth due to a force of attraction by the Earth. Therefore, the Earth, planets, constellations, moon and sun are held in orbit due tot his attraction.”
        Our friend Issac Newton discovered gravity in 1687, around 1200 years later…

        – Time:
        In ‘Surya Siddhanta’, Bhaskaracharya calculates the time taken for the Earth to orbit the sun to 9 decimals places. Bhaskaracharya states 365.258756484 days make a year. Between Bhaskaracharya’s measurement around 1500 years ago and the modern calculation the difference is only 0.00085 days which is around a difference of 0.0002 %.
        Furthermore, India has given the IDEA of the smallest and largest measurement of time several thousands of years ago:
        1 Krati = 34,000th of a second.
        1 Kalpa = 4.32 billion years.
        Then you obviously have Maha Kalpas and so on…
        – Surgery:
        Shushruta, known as the Father of Surgery, practised his skill as early as 600 BCE, around 2,600 years ago! He used to perform plastic surgery to restore or reshape the nose, ears, lips with incredible results. Modern plastic surgery acknowledges his contribution by calling this method of rhinoplasty as the ‘Indian Method’.
        – Medicine:
        Charaka knew the fundamentals of genetics. For instance, he knew the factors determining the sex of a child. A genetic defect in a child, like lameness or blindness, he said, was not due to any defect in the mother or the father, but in the ovum or sperm of the parents (an accepted fact today). Charaka was the first physician to present the concept of digestion, metabolism and immunity.

        Charaka lived during 300 BC in India and was a passionate student of the Vedas, where he found the “seeds” for developing his research on health from relevant mantras. He is referred to the Father of Indian Medicine and I suggest if you can get an authentic copy, to read his Charaka Samitha were he illustrates means to live healthy. Obviously, Charaka was one of the main contributors to Ayurveda, another science found in the Vedas. Ayurveda, just like Yoga have been proven to be healthy for the human mind and body (and soul, if you believe in one!).
        – The Spread of Knowledge:
        Around 2,700 years ago, as early as 700 BCE there existed a giant university at Takshashila, located in the north – west region of India. Not only Indians but students from as far as Babylonia, GREECE; Syria, ARABIA and China came to study. 68 different streams of knowledge were on the syllabus and a wide ranged of subjects were taught by experienced masters:
        VEDAS, Language, Grammar, PHILOSOPHY, Warfare, ASTRONOMY, ASTROLOGY, Accounts, Commerce, Futurology, Documentation, Occult, Music, Dance etc. The minimum entrance age was 16 and there were up to 10,500 students.
        The Panel of Masters included renowned names such as Kaultilya (“superman” of politics), Panini (Sanskrit grammarian) and Vishnu Sharma (author of ‘Panchatantra’).
        The Vedas echo that all knowledge is pre-existing and ought to be “recovered” rather than “discovered”.
        – Your Dawah:
        I humbly reject your invitation to the religion which has terrorised Asia for 1400 years and that is continuing to terrorise the free world even today with its ideology. I am proud that I am part of a philosophy that is so scientific and loving towards all human beings. However, Islam in particular has tried to break and stain this beautiful concept of life. Although, Sanatana Dharma is still very much alive even though Islam, the Quran and Mohammed are a drop of a swine’s testicular sweat compared to the knowledge found in the Dharmic concept and understanding of life. I have made my choice, you have made yours. I am pleased for you that you’re happy with your preference, but truth always triumphs. One day even you will realise that you were part of this philosophy and family…
        Regards,
        Salkia
        PS. I shall let you have the last word because I feel that I have made my point clear regarding Islam and I stand by my views as I have provided sufficient evidence backing my claims. After your retaliation, I would feel it would be appropriate to let the readers of Agniveer to decide a victor of our debate.
        I also suggest you watch “Undercover Mosque”, a documentary by Channel 4 in UK that sent reporters with hidden cameras into the biggest mosques in UK and into official UK Muslim institutions. Many of your so-called scholars were found inciting hatred towards non-Muslims, declaring women to be deficient etc. You will be surprised to know that the following scholars who were also found inciting this type of rhetoric actually are a part of the IRF (Zakir Naik’s organisation): Abu Usuma at Thahabi and Dr. Bilal Philips. These gentlemen are considered as profound and educated scholars of Islam and work together with people like Zakir Naik. Here is the link to the documentary if you have the GUTS to watch it:
        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2515587181120245843#

      • Dear Abdullah and other Muslim readers,

        I would like to apologise sincerely for my remarks on Mohammed’s IQ and comparing Islam, the Quran and Mohammed to a drop of swine’s testicular sweat. There was no need for this comparision and I am regret my selection of words. While I assure that I will do my best to conform to the spirit of fair, logical and respectful debate in the future towards my opponents, I do stand firm on my beliefs regarding the scientific errors that I have pointed out in the Quran.

        Sincerely,

        Salkia

  31. Dear Brothers

    The concept of rebirth in Islam and Quran is very different from Hinduism.

    In Islam ,After this present life we all will be resurrected(bring back to life again) on the Day of Judgment. And on the basis of our believe and deeds in this world we will be given Heaven or Hell in which we will live forever.

    This is simple and straight forward.It is not confusing like seven time births in different forms i.e. in human form,or animal dog cat etc. Which is unnatural and very difficult for human mind to accept.

    Any question or clearification contact – [email protected]
    Thanks
    Abdullah

    • Brother Abdullah,

      wherein Vedas have you found the concept of seven births ???

      BTW, Abdullah your concept of rebirth in Islam is wrong! See what Muhammad said –

      The Prophet said: …I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred… Bukhari 4.54

      This is absolutely in sync with what the vedas say ! Since as per your version there is only one life and one resurrection thereafter, however Muhammad believed otherwise !

      • Dear Brother Amitesh

        I have not said that concept of 7 rebirths is according to Vedas. I have said that it is according to Hinduism.Because ask 90% of Hindus and they will say that there are 7 rebirths or seven Janams.

        For the hadith you quoted-
        It shows that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) loves Allah so much that he wants to martyred for Allah’s religion again and again.But hadith clearly shows that Muhammad(pbuh) WISHES to martyred in way of Allah again and again.It does not say that Muhammad(pbuh) WILL be martyred in the way of Allah again and again.

        I challenge you to quote any verse from quran which says about 7 rebirths.

        Thanks
        Abdullah
        contact me on [email protected]

      • Abdullah
        Brother, we should remember that we are discussing about scriptures and not people. If you were to believe people, leave Islam immediately because every Muslim thinks of his sect as true one and considers rest 72 as defective. In this way every sect has just one sect in its support and 72 in against! Thus disbelievers are 72 times more than the believers!

        You wrote that prophet wished to take births again and again! Now tell me, could prophet ever say or wish anything against the will of Allah? If yes, then what is the guaranty that he did not cheat others by claiming prophethood? What is the guaranty that whatever he told in the form of Quran was from Allah and not from him? So logic is clear. If Muhammad could wish/say/act against Allah’s wish, he cant be considered as prophet. If no, rebirth as explained in Vedas and as wished by prophet in Hadith is the actual concept of rebirth in Quran also.

        There is nothing like 7 or 8 births in Vedas. It is a chain and it ends when you get salvation. Thats it.

        I invite you to your original home of your ancestors, Vedic Dharm.

      • Dear Brother Vajra

        I didnt say that Prohet wishes to take births again and again.
        I said that Prophet wishes to be martyred in the way of Allah again and again.

        I have told you many times that this Hadith only shows Prophet’s loves to sacrifice his life for Allah’s cause.

        I have checked this hadith from Sahih Sources.And the hadith is that “Prophet said he would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred”.

        So it was my mistake that i said he wishes but correct word is that he said HE WOULD LOVE to be martyred in way of Allah again and again.

        And it clearly shows that by saying this he is only showing his love for Allah.And he did not wishes for any rebirths.

        There is not a single verse in Quran which tells about cycles of rebirths that you are takling about.If there is please show me.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Dear Brother Abdulla,

        Agniveer (website) has explained in the best possible manner the concept of Rebirth. This is exactly what our scriptures (like Vedas and Bhagvad Gita) say. Start thinking logically. If you think about the intricacies of the human life, no other scripture (except Vedas and Bhagvad Gita) can explain the cause and reason of the misery and hapiness of the people in this materialistic world. Its only “Law of karma” exist which causes:
        1. Some people to be born with silver spoon in mouth, and some to be born poor.
        2. Some people have longevity of 100 yeras (or more), and others have less
        3. Some people are born healthy, and some are born with disabilities

        There can be many more such points. Our scriptures teach us that ” Accept the true logical knowledge and good logical thinking, from wherever and in whatever form it comes to you”. Desist from accepting something at its face value ( just because its written in Quran or Muhammd said that or the new messanger of the messanger of the messanger of the messanger of the God “Zakir Naik” said that). This is just your sheer ignorance that you don’t accept this fact and keep defending the matter.

        I understand that you follow Islam and your beliefs are different than ours. But this doesn’t imply that Islam is superior that Hinduism, and vice versa. Hinduism is a religion which has taught the lesson of Universal Acceptance to the world. Does this mean that I want you to convert to Hinduinsm? God Forbid. Also, God forbit any hindu to be converted to Islam.

        Share our good things and get rid of bad things. Had Zakir Naik been continuing as medical Practitioner, he would have served the humanity (and Allah) in much better and revered way. Its a matter of great shame that he is earning his livlihood by luring the innocent youths and corrupting their minds with unscientific and anti-social things. This makes him none other than an educated terrorist. May Ishwar bring him on right path.

        Tamso ma Jyotirgamaya

        Rajeev

      • Brother Rajeev,

        The Quran is full with contradictions. It is obvious it was written in hurry, by many authors etc. Please, all Muslims in this thread, help me out with this quote from the Quran where Allah is addressing the fate of the unbeliever:

        [2:28] How can ye reject the faith in Allah?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.

        Kayfa takfuroona biAllahiwakuntum amwatan faahyakum thumma yumeetukumthumma yuhyeekum thumma ilayhi turjaAAoona

        If this doesn’t sound like Karma then what is it? Muslims in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh wake up! Quran is full with stories concerning Moses, Isrelites etc. How is this concerning the history of our people? We had flourishing civilizations long before Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Solemon, David and of course Mohammed.

        Let’s wake up spiritually!

      • @Rajeev

        Dear Rajeev

        You said that Cycles of Births(concept of Rebirth) can only explain the cause and reason of the misery and hapiness of the people in this materialistic world.

        In short ,I think that you want say that, If a person has done some mistakes or sins in his previous birth then in this present life either he will be born with some birth defects,or poor or will have short life.

        So please answer my this question
        When will a person improve? A person will improve only when he knows very well what he did mistake earlier, so next time he will strive to rectify his mistakes. But, in actual no person remembers what mistake he did in his earlier life.
        May be this is the same reason of Hitler killing 6 million Jews. Hitler (with swastika flags) might have thought he could improve himself in the next life and do genocide on Jews in the present life

        Thanks
        Abdulah Khan

      • The mistake done by the human is to think he is the body which changes every moment.For the same reason god has given vedas to mankind. He keeps on sending messengers when required to put humans on the right track. Killing or no killing human has nothing in their hand except the feeling that i am doing.

      • Dear Adolf

        First of all I had not asked any questions to you neither I had given you any answers.

        I am debating with Vajra. So please do not INTERFERE.

        Debating with you is of no use because I myself did not have any knowledge of Agnosticism neither of the concept of an Agnostic.

        If you want me to prove existance of God or want me to prove that Quran is the word of God then please contact me on my E-Mail ID – [email protected]

        I can 100% prove the existance of God and that the Quran is 100% God’s word.

        So if you has any question ask me through E-Mails.I will not reply to any of your question on these open forums because it will not benefit you or me.

        So If you want any discussion with me contact me through E-Mails.If you not want to contact me throgh E-Mails.Then please dont wast my time and yours.

        Thanks
        Abdullah
        E-Mail- [email protected]

      • Abdullah
        Brother, If I am correct, you are same Abdullah who claimed that he was a Hindu few years back. I ask you very simple question. What new good thing, did Quran and ahadith teach you which is not present in Vedas?

        Lets have discussion/debate on Vedas, Quran and ahadith right here. I am ready to convert to Islam if you could answer my questions. Same is expected from you. What say?

      • Vajra

        No,I am not Abdullah who was ex-hindu.

        Please get it clear that his name is Abdullah Reddy(ex-hindu) .

        My name is ABDUlLAH KHAN and I AM A BORN MUSLIM.

        Brother I am ready to debate with you but only through E-Mails.Because here on these open forums good Debate is not POSSIBLE.On these forums you will just waste your time and mine.

        I had tried to debate with Salkia on these open forums but it had not given any results.

        If you really want to debate me then contact me on my E-Mail ID where we can contest one on one debate, here on these forums the debate is not one on one it is one on TEN.

        Thanks
        Abdullah Khan

      • @Abdullah Khan : ” I am born Muslim” nothing gets funnier than that, thats why you are carrying the name of Mongolian dynasty today distorted to Born MuslimKhan.
        are you of the ones who believe that Changez Khan was Muslim..

        anyways what is the point to debate with a mongol about Islam..

      • Abdullah Khan
        Brother, I want to have discussion for the benefit of all. I promise, there wont be any one on ten situation in our discussion. I will reply to all others who will try to interfere. Dont worry. You dont need to reply to anyone except me.

        You did not tell, will you come back to Vedas if you get convinced about the truth of Vedic philosophy? If you agree, please answer some questions on Islam and in your reply, you can question Vedic philosophy. Here are my questions

        1. Why did Allah create us?
        2. Why did He change His very nature to “remain alone” suddenly?
        3. Why did Allah write Lohe Mehfooz and freeze everyone’s fate even before creating the people?
        4. Can Allah almighty do everything? I mean kill Himself, become fool or less capable, sinner etc?
        5. Why do Hadith equate women and non believers to dog, ass and even pig?

        Thanks

        PS: Please avoid giving your answers of the forms “Allah knows the best” or “I am not Allah only Allah can tell this” or “Quran is Allah’s book” or “we cant question Allah” etc.

        Please dont provide more than two hyperlinks in your comments because such comments are automatically unapproved on the site to avoid spamming.

      • Dear Brother Vajra

        My purpose of this discussion is only to tell you the truth if you find it true then accept it .The choice is yours.I am not forcing you to convert so you also should not force me to convert.

        I will answer your all five question InshaAllah.

        Question-1-Why did Allah create us?
        Answer-The purpose for the creation of mankind is worship.

        From the perspective of humankind, the question “Why did God create man?” implies “For what purpose was man created?”

        In the final revelation (the Quran), this question is answered without any ambiguity. Humans are first informed by God that every human being is born with an innate consciousness of God. In the Quran, God said:

        “[Remember] when your Lord extracted from the loins of Adam’s children their descendants and made them testify [saying]: ‘Am I not your Lord?’ They said: ‘Yes, we testify to it.’ [This was] in case you say on the Day of Judgment: ‘We were unaware of this.’ Or you say: ‘It was our ancestors who worshipped others besides God and we are only their descendants. Will you then destroy us for what those liars did?’” (Quran 7:172)

        The Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, explained that when God created Adam, He took from him a covenant at a place called Na,maan on the 9th day of the 12th month. He then extracted from Adam all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation, and spread them out before Him to take a covenant from them also. He spoke to them, face to face, making them bear witness that He was their Lord. Consequently, every human being is responsible for belief in God, which is imprinted on each and every soul. It is based on this inborn belief that God defined the purpose of mankind’s creation in Quran:

        “I have created the jinn and humankind only for My worship.” (Quran 51:56)

        Thus, the essential purpose for which humankind was created is the worship of God. However, the Almighty is not in need of human worship. He did not create human beings out of a need on His part. If not a single human worshipped God, it would not diminish His glory in any way, and if all of humankind worshipped Him, it would not increase His glory in any way. God is perfect. He alone exists without any needs. All created beings have needs. Consequently, it is humankind that needs to worship God.

        The Meaning of Worship
        To understand why human beings need to worship God, one must first understand what is meant by the term ‘worship.’ The English term ‘worship’ comes from the Old English weorthscipe meaning ‘honor.’ Consequently, worship in the English language is defined as ‘the performance of devotional acts in honor of a deity.’ According to this meaning, man is instructed to show gratitude to God by glorifying Him. In the Quran, God says:

        “Glorify the praises of your Lord…” (Quran 15:98)

        In glorifying God, man chooses to be in harmony with the rest of creation which naturally glorifies its Creator. God addresses this phenomenon in many chapters of the Quran. For example, in the Quran, God states:

        “The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them glorify Him and there is nothing which does not glorify His praise. However, you do not understand their glorification.” (Quran 17:44)

        However, in Arabic, the language of the final revelation, worship is called ‘ibaadah, which is closely related to the noun ‘abd, meaning ‘a slave.’ A slave is one who is expected to do whatever his master wills. Consequently, worship, according to the final revelation, means ‘obedient submission to the will of God.’ This was the essence of the message of all the prophets sent by God to mankind.Consequently, obedience to divine law is the foundation of worship. In this sense, glorification also becomes worship when humans choose to obey God’s instructions regarding His glorification

        The Need for Worship

        Why do human beings need to worship and glorify God by obeying the divinely revealed laws? Because obedience to divine law is the key to success in this life and the next. The first human beings, Adam and Eve,
        were created in paradise and later expelled from paradise for disobeying the divine law. The only way for human beings to return to paradise is by obedience to the law.Divine laws represent guidance for humankind in all walks of life. They define right and wrong for them and offer human beings a complete system governing all of their affairs. The Creator alone knows best what is beneficial for His creation and what is not. The divine laws command and prohibit various acts and substances to protect the human spirit, the human body and human society from harm. In order for human beings to fulfill their potential by living righteous lives, they need to worship God through obedience to His commandments.

        Question-2-Why did He change His very nature to “remain alone” suddenly?

        Answer-2- The counter question can be posed that, then, why He EVER created? Why He Ever executed His power of creation?
        Nothing controls Allah. He execute His will as suits His majesty and when he wants.
        This question somewhat have similar answer to Question No.1.So read it again.

        Question-3-Why did Allah write Lohe Mehfooz and froze everyone’s fate even before creating the people?
        Answer-3-Vajra I think you had a misconception about Lohe Mehfooz or Qadar(Predestination) in Islam.

        Let me try to clear it-

        Definition of Qadar(Predestination)-

        Destiny is what Allah has decreed. Allah has knowledge of everything in His creation. Nothing occurs except by His will. Human beings are given free will, and it must be made clear that destiny does not have a cause-and-effect influence of the choices humans make. The choices that humans make are all within Allah’s knowledge.

        Concept of Qadar(Predestination)-

        Muslims believe that the divine destiny is when God wrote down in the Preserved Tablet ( Lohe Mehfooz) all that has happened and will happen, which will come to pass as written.

        According to this belief, a person’s action is not caused by what is written in the Preserved Tablet but, rather, the action is written in the Preserved Tablet because God already knows all occurrences without the restrictions of time.

        Also,another perspective is that that God is omniscient and therefore has foreknowledge of all possible futures. With divine power, God then also deems which futures will be allowed, and man’s choice is between those possibilities approved by God

        An individual has power to choose, but since God created time and space he knows what will happen. God is without any bond of time and space so what will happen has only meaning to humans, who are limited in time and space. An analogy is with someone who watches a movie for the second time, who knows what will happen next, while for the first time watcher the next move is unknown

        Belief in al-Qadar(Predestination) is based on four things

        1.Al-‘Alam – Knowledge: i.e., that Allah knows what His creation will do, by virtue of His eternal knowledge, including their choices that will take place.

        2. Kitabat – Writing: i.e., that Allah has written every thing that exists including the destiny of all creatures in al-Lawh al-Mahfuud prior to creation.

        3.– Mashii’at – Will: i.e., that what Allah wills happens and what He does not will does not happen. There is no movement in the heavens or on earth but it happens by His will. This does not mean that He forces things to happen the way they happen in the area of human beings’ voluntary actions. It means that He knew what they will chose, wrote it and let it happen.

        4. Al-Khalaq – Creation and formation: i.e., that Allah is the Creator of all things, including the actions of His servants. They do their actions in a real sense, and Allah is the Creator of them and of their actions.

        But,
        Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail.
        Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities.
        Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities

        Summary-Allah is so knowledgeable that he knows what choice Human beings will make in future because Allah is the creater of Human beings and their actions.Human Beings are given free will but what will they chose or do in their life Allah knows in advances because again Allah has all the knowledge of what will happen in future.Allah had wrote Lohe Mefooz because he knows in advance what human beings will do in their lives.An
        individual has power to choose, but since God created time and space he knows in advance what will happen.This does not mean that He forces things to happen the way they happen in the area of human beings’
        voluntary actions. It means that He knew what they will chose, wrote it and let it happen.

        Please read the Hadith given below,I think it will clear your mind furturemore,

        Narrated By ‘Ali : While we were in a funeral procession in Baqi Al-Gharqad, Allah’s Apostle came and sat down, and we sat around him. He had a small stick in his hand and he bent his head and started scraping the ground with it. He then said, “There is none among you, and no created soul but has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell-Fire, and also has his happy or miserable fate (in the Hereafter) written for him.” A man said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we depend upon what is written for us and give up doing (good) deeds? For whoever among us is destined to be fortunate (in the Hereafter), will join the fortunate peoples and whoever among us is destined to be miserable will do such deeds as are characteristic of the people who are destined to misery.” The Prophet said, “Those who are destined to be happy (in the Hereafter) will find it easy and pleasant to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to happiness, while those who are to be among the miserable (in the Hereafter), will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of those destined to misery.”
        Then he recited: ‘As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and believes in the Best reward from Allah, We will make smooth for him the path of ease. But he who is a greedy miser and thinks himself self
        sufficient, and gives the lie to the Best reward from Allah we will make smooth for him the path for evil.’ (Quran, 92.5-10).

        (Bukhari, Volume 6, Hadith Number 473).

        Question-4-Can Allah almighty do everything? I mean kill Himself, become fool or less capable, sinner etc?

        Answer-4-Yes,Allah Almighty has power to do everything.But he will not kill himself because the moment he will kill himself he cant be God because God did not die.He will not become fool because the moment he become
        fool he contradicts to be God because Almighty God did not become fool.He will not sin because the moment he sin he ceases to be God because Almighty God cannot sin.

        God can only do Godly things and God cannot do Ungodly things.

        So,Almighty God will never do Ungodly things because the moment he do ungodly thing he ceases to be God.

        Question-5-Why do Hadith equate women and non believers to dog, ass and even pig?
        Answer-5-Please kindly quote me Sahih-Hadith with proper reference which equate women to dog,ass or pig.I dont know of any hadith of such type.

        Regarding Non-Believers-
        Again,Please quote me Sahih-Hadith with proper reference which equate Non-Believers to ass or pig.

        Then only I will answer your question correctly.

        Now my questions to you about Vedas-

        Question-1-How can you prove that Vedas are word of God without any human interventions or human writing.
        To whom( i mean which saint,rishi or prophet) they were revealed.And when they were revealed.

        Question-2-Why their are Scientific Errors in Vedas if they are the words of God.

        We know today that the earth revolves and rotates and is not fixed. But according to vedas earth is fixed:

        -Rig Veda 2.12.2-He who fixed fast and firm the earth that staggered, and set at rest the agitated mountains
        -Rig Veda 10.121.1- IN the beginning rose Hiranyagarbha, born Only Lord of all created beings.He fixed and holdeth up this earth and heaven. What God shall we adore with our oblation?
        -Rig Veda 10.173.4-Firm is the sky and firm the earth, and stedfast also are these hills.Stedfast is all this living world, and stedfast is this King of men.
        -Yajur Veda 5:16-Both these worlds, Vishnu, hast thou stayed asunder, and
        firmly fixed the earth with pegs around it.
        -Yajur Veda 32:6- By whom the heavens are strong and earth stands firmly,
        by whom light’s realm and sky-vault are supported;
        -Atharva Veda 12.1.17-Kind, ever gracious be the Earth we tread on, the firm Earth,

        -Yajur Veda 4.30-The Bull hath propped the sky and air’s mid-region, the
        compass of the broad earth hath he measured.

        Is this verse scientific in any sense.

        And their are many more.

        Please in your answer did not provide your own translation.If you want to convince me that this translation is incorrect then provide translation of a scholar by giving me an online link where i can check the correct translation.Because I dont know whether you or Agniveer are scholars or not.And saying translation is incorrect is very old trick to escape from truth so please give another excuse.

        Quetion-3-Why their accounts of Incest and Pornography in Veads if they are the words of God.

        Reference-Rig-Veda 10.61.5-7.(these are hidded by many scholars and translators).
        I didnt feel appropiate to give verses here because they could be very disturbing for my Hindu Brothers.

        Rig Veda-1.71.5.When man poured juice to Heaven, the mighty Father, he knew and freed himself from close embracement.The archer boldly shot at him his arrow, and the God threw his splendour on his Daughter

        Rig Veda-1.164.33- Dyaus is my Father, my begetter: kinship is here. This great earth is my kin and Mother.Between the wide-spread world-halves is the birth-place: the Father laid the Daughter’s germ within it.

        Yama and Yami(Brother ans Sister) Incest in Rig Veda Book 10.10.7-14

        Pushan is the lover of his sister in Rig-Veda 6.55.4-Pūsan, who driveth goats for steeds, the strong and Mighty, who is called His Sister’s lover, will we laud.

        Agni is the lover of his own sister in Rig-Veda 10.3.3-Attendant on the Blessed Dame the Blessed hath come: the Lover followeth his Sister.

        Rig Veda 3.31.1-WISE, teaching, following the thought of Order, the sonless gained a grandson from his daughter.

        By giving these references my purpose is not to insult you or Vedas but my purpose is to tell you that book claiming from God cannot contain such pornographical accounts.

        Please in your answer did not provide your own translation.If you want to convince me that this translation is incorrect then provide translation of a scholar by giving me an online link where i can check the correct translation.Because I dont know whether you or Agniveer are scholars or not.And saying translation is incorrect is very old trick to escape from truth so please give another excuse.

        Question-4-Why Vedic gOD Brahma needs sex and even with his own daughter Saraswati.Similarly Vishnu and Shiva why they need sex because now I ask you Did Almighty God needs sex.

        Question-5-Who is biggest God is it Brahma or Vishnu or Shiva?Because God is one and not three equals.

        From now you should ask only Three question at a time I will also ask three question at a time.

        Thanks
        Abdullah Khan

      • Abdullah Khan
        Namaste
        You wrote- “My purpose of this discussion is only to tell you the truth if you find it true then accept it”

        Brother, I ask you- “I am putting forward the truth, if you find it true, will you accept it?” How will you decide who’s truth is actual truth and whose a myth? You assume yourself to be someone who can only give or tell, not take or listen. Please come out of this superiority complex and start talking logical. Lets decide logically who has the truth and not assume from starting that you are ultimate and opponent is a looser. Please write once that truth can be on either side. Anyway I reply to your post by assuming that you will show the spirit of discussion by leaving the attitude of a headmaster!

        1. I asked about the purpose of Allah behind creation and not of humans as humans did not exist before creation! If you say He created us to worship Him, it proves that Allah has desires and thus He is not perfect. Purpose can be for either Allah or humans. If Allah had no purpose for himself and humans did not exist at that time, there would not be any creation because there was no one who could be benefited by this purpose! It is like I make a ball and say I have made it hard so that it would not get soft! One will ask, why did you make it in first place? Softness or hardness depends on purpose of the manufacturer and not on ball itself because ball was not meant for itself but for manufacturer! Similarly anything which is created has some purpose for already existing entity. Otherwise we have to say, “humans were created to benefit humans” which is completely illogical statement.

        2. “Nothing controls Allah. He execute His will as suits His majesty and when he wants.”

        This is what I requested not to do earlier! Answer the question and please dont run away. If Islam does not know the answer, ask Vedas the same question and then see what answer you get! In short, I dont know about Allah of Quran but Allah of Vedas controls Himself as He is the best controller. He does not want anything because He is perfect. He does not have any will. He does not get changed with time. He does not think of anything irrational and illogical. Whatever is best, He does it all time and whatever is not, He never does it. Anyway, please try to answer it or ask me for the Vedic view if you want to know.

        3. Your own quote proves that whatever is happening is all Allah’s will-

        “what Allah wills happens and what He does not will does not happen. There is no movement in the heavens or on earth but it happens by His will.”

        So my question still stands, if Allah could will better than this, why so many worries for some and happiness for others, Eeman for some and Kufra for others? BTW, I asked this question in the context that for whom did Allah write Lohe Mehfooz? Since only Allah has access to it, it seems to be created for Allah himself! Now question comes, why was there need to write? Was Allah not sure of his memory? Did Allah know everything from infinite time or these things came into His mind suddenly? If He knew it from begginningless time then why did He write it that time and not before that? If all happened suddenly, Allah is not all knowing because His knowledge changes with time!

        4. Your answer 4 is really amusing. Let me show you the contradiction in your own writing. You wrote-

        “Yes, Allah Almighty has power to do everything…. God can only do Godly things and God cannot do Ungodly things…..”

        Brother do I need to say something on this? Let me ask you a question- Does God have power to do ungodly things and still be God? My purpose of all this is just to convey that true God is unchangeable and does not wish anything. He will either create or not create depending upon what is best just like Vedic God, who creates and destroys, creates an destroys and this cycle goes on and on. Its not like Allah of Quran whose first half went without creating anyone and now second half will have all humans, hell and heaven. This kind of shaky behavior does not suit God.

        5. Please ensure me that you will condemn Quran and Hadith for degrading non believers and women if I show you the same.

        Now Answers about Vedas

        1. We have tools like logic, common sense etc to judge some book to be right or wrong. Vedas are logical and you can test it anytime. Ask us any Mantra which you feel gives immoral or non scientific teachings. We will see it and tell you its meaning. Even if some day something is found opposite to morality in Vedas, we will reject it. But it has not happened till now, you can try. Vedas were given to four Rishis in the starting of human life, there names were Agni, Vayu, Aditya, and Angira.

        2. Please visit http://agniveer.com/3050/scientific-errors-in-hinduism/ to know the correct translation of these Mantras by scholars of Agniveer. BTW who told you that old trick does not work in present? Of course the translations you gave are from Griffith who was a well known Christian Missionary whose intention was to malign Vedas with his dirty efforts. I ask you, will you accept the translation of Quran by any Jew or Agniveer correct? If no, why should I believe Griffith just because you have found his translation?

        3. Please name those Vedic scholars who have hided the meanings of these Mantras? Anyway, get correct translations of these Mantras on http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org.
        Now one question for you- Since all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were brother and sister mutually, how could they manage to get their next generation? Now you should accept that not Vedas but Islam believes incest to be a moral act! What say?

        4 and 5. There is nothing like that. No Mantras talks of such stories. If you have, please give those Mantras. God is one as per Vedas, so no question of three Gods. Rather I can ask you that you have to believe in Muhammad in addition to Allah to get Jannat! Believing in Allah alone will not help you. Now tell me Brother, not believing in Allah and not believing in Muhammad have same punishment! Do you still want to talk about equal powers or multiple Gods?

        Anyway, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, Shiva, Eeshvar, Bhagwan etc are some of God’s names out of his infinite names. Just like Muslims believe in 99 names of Allah and 100 names of Muhammad and that does not mean 99 Allah or 100 Muhammad, same way, Eeshvar is One with infinite names based on His infinite capabilities.

        Thanks

      • Dear Vajra

        Yes,if I found the truth I will accept it.
        You are right that who will decide whose truth is right.Thats the dificullty of debating is forums.

        1-You had asked me this question-Why did Allah create us?

        In this question what does US means.A lay man can tell that if a human being is asking this question then he is refering to HUMANS.

        No Allah is not in Need of Human Worship-
        The Almighty is not in need of human worship. He did not create human
        beings out of a need on His part. If not a single human worshipped God, it would not diminish His glory in any way, and if all of humankind worshipped Him, it would not increase His glory in any way. God is perfect. He alone exists without any needs. All created beings have needs. Consequently, it is humankind that needs to worship God.

        Now,The Purpose of creation-

        Creation is fundamentally the consequence of the divine attribute of being the Creator. A creator who does not create is something of a contradiction in terms. This is not to say God needs His creation. God is free from all needs. It is the creation which needs Him. But, as the greatness of a writer becomes apparent in his writings, the perfection of divine creative attribute is manifest in creation. Creation in the true sense is unique to God alone.Creation is the consequence of His being the Creator.

        If you want to study this topic in detail then I can refer you a book-“The Purpose of Creation” by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips .

        2-About “Why did He change His very nature to “remain alone” suddenly “.

        I had said what I wanted to say abot this topic and I believe it.I have given answer on this from my knowledge and what I feel to be logical.Also I dont have interest in these illogical topic.I have more interest about what will happen to me and you on the Day of Judgement rather then what was before creation.

        3-I want to clear your misconception that Loh-e-Mehfooz is not a type of book like you and I have.The things which are written in Loh-e-Mehfooz means that these things are in knowledge of Allah.

        Let me explain you this again-
        Allah is so knowledgeable that he knows what choice Human beings will make in future because Allah is the creater of Human beings and their actions.Human Beings are given free will but what will they chose or do in their life Allah knows in advances because again Allah has all the knowledge of what will happen in future.An individual has power to choose, but since God created time and space he knows in advance what will happen.This does not mean that He forces things to happen the way they happen in the area of human beings’ voluntary actions. It means that He knew what they will chose and let it happen.

        4-God has power to do all things but He will not do ungodly things.

        Why, lets take an example of a human.We humans has power to have sex with lower animals because we are more powerful and intelligent then them.But having sex with animals is unhumanly thing.So humans will not do the things which are unhuman,beside having power to do these unhuman thing.

        Similarly God has power to do all things but he would not do ungodly things .He would only do the things which are Godly.

        This is what I wanted to say.If you did not want to understand it then it is your problem.

        Now,I came to know that your purpose of this discussion is not to find the truth but to critise me and Islam.

        5-First you have to give me Verses or Sahih- Hadtith then I will check them and give you reply about them.

        Now the question I asked to you-

        1-You said” Vedas were given to four Rishis in the starting of human life, there names were Agni, Vayu, Aditya, and Angira”.

        Is there any historical evidence of these four rishis.

        These Rishis should be humans.

        Now,let us look at Agni-
        He is the god of fire and the acceptor of sacrifices, He is one of the supreme gods in the Rig Veda. His vehicle is the ram.(What is ram)
        Agni is depicted with two or seven hands, two heads and three legs. He has seven fiery tongues with which he licks sacrificial butter. He rides a ram or in a chariot harnessed by fiery horses. His attributes are an axe, torch, prayer beads and a flaming spear.
        Agni is represented as red and two-faced, suggesting both his destructive and beneficent qualities, and with black eyes and hair, three legs and seven arms. He rides a ram, or a chariot pulled by goats or, more rarely, parrots. Seven rays of light emanate from his body. One of his names is Saptajihva, “having seven tongues”.
        Agni is the eldest son of Brahma. In Visnu Purana, Agni (Abhimani) the fire god is said to have sprung from the mouth of the Virat purusha, the Cosmic Man.

        Does this description of Agni sounds you like a description of Man.Is this scientifically acceptable.The answer is no.They are all MYTHOLOGICALS.Your entire religion is based on MYTHS.

        I ask you now, to scientifiacally prove that Vedas are word of God.Because this is the age of science and not of myths.I can prove scientifically that Quran is the word of God.

        2&3-I had told you that I dont know if Agniveer is scholar or not.So I cannot trust his translation.The website which you had told me of Arya Samaj did not have translation in English nor it have correct Index so it is not possible to check these verses.Please provide me with a link which has translation in English.

        If you know the traslation of these verses dealing in Incest then type it here on these forums and please give correct reference.

        Well it is illogical to say that R.Griffith had translated these verses incorrectly.Because except these few verses he had tranlated all Vedas correct but only these verse are incorrect.

        Let me tell you if purpose of Griffith was to maline Veads then he had translated -Rig-Veda 10.61.5-7.But he had not.These shows that he was also hiding the truth of these verses.(confirm this yourself by going to http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10061.htm).

        Regarding Adam and Eve-
        Let me clear your this misconseption.

        Eve used to give births to two childs in one delivery.One daughter and One Son being born at the same time as twins. After that another twins.So there were two pairs of twins. Members of one twin pair married the ones from the second twin pair and hence the generation continued. Quran clearly metions the birth of twins at many places. Although, coming together of siblings may seem like incest, it was allowed at that time and only later was it made a sin. The reason God later outlawed it was because the genetic degeneration of the human race , had reached a point where there was the increased possibility of the children of such union having disastrous genetic problems (we know this to be true medically now).

        So this process was required for first generation to continue.But when their were enough peoples in this world..Such kind of relatioship was forbidden.

        But Vedas did not talk about Incest in early days of Humans but they talk about incest after the early days.And there is not only one instance.In Vedas their are more then 7 intances of Incestous Relationship which I had shown you.And these instances was not in primitve days of humans but after many generations.

        4-It is widely known that Brahma married Sarawati who was his daughter as Brahma created her with his “vital strength” or seminal fluid which he used to collect in pot.
        Also,Shiva had wive named Parwati.(is this not true).

        So it is clear that Brahma and Shiva had wifes and they had sex with them.

        Then again question to you that Did God need sex.

        5-Brother,do you think that I am fool.By saying that Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva, are the different names of same person what do you want to prove.I know that Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva were different persons.They all had different personalities.So how can they be one.

        One Brahma+One Vishnu+One Shiva = Three distinct gODs.

        The question remains unanswered that who is the supreme God what is his name.

        In Islam we have 99 names for Allah signifying his attributes but Allah remanis the SAME.

        Now my 5 new questions to you-

        Question-6-Why Ganesh had the elephant head.Is this possible scientifically.

        Question-7-What happened to the generation of Hanuman(monkey god) now.I dont see any monkey talking now.Where are their generation gone.

        Question-8-Why did it takes Ram 12 years to get Sita back from Ravana.Why did Ram needs the help of Hanuman to get Sita back.Because God does not need help.

        Question-9-How can Brahma be born out from the navel of Vishnu.Is this scientific.Can God be born.

        Question-10-Why Krishna used to look at naked girls while they were bathing and why he stolen their clothes.Does God do these things.

        Please dont say that these things are not in Vedas.Rememberthat we are discussing Islam and Hinduism.And these things are bases of your religion.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • 1. Why did Allah create us?

        >>Why do humans need to worship god? Without worshipping god if we do good things will we get paradise( If there is any)?
        Is god no different than an self centered human who favours gifts to persons who praises him?

        Now,The Purpose of creation-
        >>Is god continuosly creating? Also Is god continuosly destructing? Why do god has to prove his greatness and to whom will he prove, other gods?
        He doesnt need to prove his greatness to his creation beacause he has created it,So are you assuming there are other gods who are creating other worlds?

        2-About Why did He change His very nature to remain alone suddenly.
        I have more interest about what will happen to me and you on the Day of Judgement rather then what was before creation.
        >>Who are you?.Are you the body? Can you be the ever changing body? When is the day of judgement can you give me some specific time from now?

        3-I want to clear your misconception that Loh-e-Mehfooz is not a type of book like you and I have.The things which are written in Loh-e-Mehfooz means that these things are in knowledge of Allah.

        >>If god knew in advance what will happen,does it mean action must have been decided by some cause other than the actor,does it mean the world is like a movie directed by god and he knew well what will happen? In that case why to threaten with eternal hell?

        Also if he knew in advance why will he require prophet to decide the rights and wrongs of people?

        Could you please answer whether we decide our own actions or is it decide by god?

        How will he know in advance what we do, unless some force is acting on us to do it in the same way? If there is no such force how will he know what is the outcome of tossing a coin?

        4-God has power to do all things but He will not do ungodly things.

        does god interferes in our daily matters?

        First of all why is it unhuman to have sex with animals? If it is unhuman what do you say about raping a captive woman?

        Adam and Eve

        >> How does adam and eve give different characteristics to different children? How many generations does it took for stopping incest? Being children of one couple are humans of today not performing incest? Also why is it not banned to marry father or mothers siblings children? Does genetics only choose one side of the relation?

        5-Questions regarding Brahma and vishnu and shiva

        >> I am an agonist and doesnt care much about god.
        >> Could you prove GOD to me and tell me when is judegement day?

        Question-6-Why Ganesh had the elephant head.Is this possible scientifically.

        >> Science does not deny the possibility of anything. Pigs organs are used for temporary purpose in human body.So it is definitely a possibility and you cant disprove scientifically.

        Question-7-What happened to the generation of Hanuman(monkey god) now.I dont see any monkey talking now.Where are their generation gone.

        >> they might have ceased to exist as similar to dinosaurs.

        Question-8-Why did it takes Ram 12 years to get Sita back from Ravana.Why did Ram needs the help of Hanuman to get Sita back.Because God does not need help.

        >> Ram is similar to any human. He is thought to be incarnate of God and he has to act in human frame of reference to set an example for humans.

        Question-9-How can Brahma be born out from the navel of Vishnu.Is this scientific.Can God be born.
        >> Who said Brahma is god? No main branch of hinduism accepted brahma as god

        Question-10-Why Krishna used to look at naked girls while they were bathing and why he stolen their clothes.Does God do these things.

        >> krishna and ram may just be historic figures or stories and as such the information about them can be distorted. Any way as allah has give your prophet
        power to satisfy 10 wives, in a similar way krishna might have got power to satisfy any number of girls you can imagine.God has created satan and is directing many of us to eternal hell,such a cruel god why cant he steal clothes of girls ( may be the girls wanted him to play with them as such)

        tx

      • Brother Adolf
        I gave Brother Abdullah the guaranty of one on one debate. I want your support in this regard. You can anyway start a new thread or ask questions to anyone by posting your opening comment at the bottom of the page and then have discussion. Hope you dont mind.

        Thanks

      • Brother Abdullah
        On purpose of creation you wrote-
        “Creation is fundamentally the consequence of the divine attribute of being the Creator. A creator who does not create is something of a contradiction in terms…. It is the creation which needs Him…..Creation is the consequence of His being the Creator.”

        So you accept that whenever there is creator, there will be creation. Now let me ask you, why did not Allah create before (since this creation is the first time creation of Allah)? By your logic, Allah did not exist before creation because if He (creator) existed before, His creation, which is fundamentally the consequence of the divine attribute of being creator must have existed? It means either Allah did not have the attribute of being creator before creation or He did not exist!

        Regarding purpose of Allah behind creation, I have proven that need of humans can never be the purpose of Allah because the beneficiary humans did not exist when Allah thought of creating them. Ultimate analysis says- “Allah created humans for humans” because humans were created to worship and worship is needed by humans!! It is same as I say, I created hard ball so that the ball does not get soften! If one asks me, why did I create the ball in first place, I keep on saying that it is the ball which needs to be hardened and not me and thus I created ball! It is now proven that Allah seems to be purposeless with His creation when we see that no one other than Him existed who could get the benefit of creation and Allah does not need anything for Himself!

        Please understand the ball example and you will get what I want to convey.

        2. Talking about wavy nature of Allah may look illogical to you but it is important. As I showed, creation was never performed before this very creation from infinite time. It proves that Allah is getting changed with time and He does/can perform acts which were/are not His attributes. Like He never created for the infinite time which is passed already and then He thought of creation. Similarly, who knows, today, He thinks of sending Momins to Jannat and Kafirs to Dozakh but tomorrow, He gets changed and does the opposite! What will you do then Brother? Or whats the guaranty that He has not thought of opposite already?

        3. Can anything happen without Allah’s will? If yes, it contradicts with your own belief. If no, why are things tagged as right or wrong when all is happening by His will? Why being Kafir worse than being Momin when both exist, think, act as per Allah’s will? Rest I have already written clearly in above posts.

        4. Giving examples of humans will trouble you Brother. Many humans do sex with animals! Unfortunately, many Muslim scholars have even said that it is justified as per Islam to have sex with animals. Anyway, as we have seen that Allah can change any moment, no one knows what He will do and what He will not do. I asked you a simple question Brother, does Allah have power to do ungodly things and still remain God? You did not answer!

        5. Do you believe in Sahih Hadith, i.e. Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari?

        Answers on Vedas

        1. Brahman Granth like Shatpath Brahman which are considered to be the “Itihaas” by Vedic scholars clearly mention Agni, Vayu, Aditya, and Angira as four Rishis in the starting. Whatever you have written about Agni etc, please provide the Mantras with proper reference so that everyone can get enlightened. I challenge you to show such description of Agni from Brahman Granth, eleven Upanishads, six Darshans, which are considered to be authentic by all Hindus. You even dont know the basic principles of the debate Brother. When I say that I reject Griffith’s work completely, why are you hell bent in making me believe in him? A christian missionary paid by Britishers can never be trusted by us. He did thousands of grammatical mistakes which anyone can see in Ved Bhashya Bhoomika book by Swami Dayanand. Then who are you to teach me his greatness? Do you know Sanskrit? Can you defend Griffith If I start questioning his work? No you cant! Will you accept the translation of Quran and Hadith by Agniveer during debate? Agniveer consider Muhammad a legend and genius and thus they seem to be love with Islam. Will you now accept their translation since they love Muhammad?

        I again clarify that I will accept only the translation or interpretation of any Rishi or Vedic scholar who does not contradict with Rishis on Vedas. You can also specify which translation of Quran I should use and which I should not use. But if you still want to continue with Griffith, please be ready to accept the translation of Quran by Islamic Scholar Vajra who considers Muhammad as legend and loves him more than any Muslim.

        Merely saying “I dont know whether Agniveer is scholar or not” will not help you find the way out. You can start refuting meanings of Agniveer or Arya Samaj grammatically anytime. Find logical fallacies in their work just like they did for Quran and Hadith. We can also say that “we dont know whether Allah of Quran is scholar or not” and thus we dont believe in Quran! Rather we question Quran on the basis of logic, science, morality etc. Similarly, try to question the meanings of Vedas provided by us on the basis of grammar, morality, science, logic etc and not run away saying “I dont know whether you are a scholar or not”!

        You can try and learn Sanskrit and start reading Vedas yourself. In the mean time, start reading meanings given in the link I gave in my last comment. Its foolish to say I will read only if you provide the link of Vedas in English! Then someone will say you that “give me the link of Quran and Hadith in Sanskrit then only I will read those”! So its childish, try to start whatever you have. Hope scholars of Agniveer are working on English translation as well.

        Now regarding incest, please check those Mantras on http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/rigvedabook.htm

        There is one book for one Mandal each and you can now read those easily.

        Now Adam and eve, you wrote- “Although, coming together of siblings may seem like incest, it was allowed at that time and only later was it made a sin”

        Could you get the contradiction in your own statement? In first line, you give hint that “coming together of siblings” is actually not incest! And the very next line, you accept that it is incest but was allowed for them! And your theory of twins was quite amusing Brother! Is it that you believe two off springs born at different time are not siblings? If no, why have you emphasized on multiple twins one after another?

        Why did not Allah create multiple Adam and multiple Eve from the starting itself like Eeshvar of Vedas so that there were no need to do incest even in the starting time?

        4. This widely known fact requires reference! Please give Mantras for the same. BTW it is also widely known that Muhammad married a girl of 6 and I have the reference of Sahih Hadith, that Muhammad raped Rehana, that Muhammad allowed his men to rape captive women, that Muhammad used to keep slaves, that Muhammad had 9 or 11 wives even though Allah allows only four etc etc! I can give references to all the above claims. But now its your turn to provide me the Mantras for Parvati etc.

        5. No Brother, I dont consider you as fool. I just want reference from Vedas that God are multiple! By now, you have talked whatever you have heard from here and there and it proves that you have not read Vedas or even Quran and Hadith. If I start talking like this, you wont have anything to say. So better stick to Vedas, Quran and Hadith and not what you have heard!

        Thus my answer remains unchanged, God has infinite names based on His infinite capabilities. Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc are three of those names. You can call Him “Om”. There might have been people with these names in the world but that does not mean that they are God. It is like any Muslim with the name Rehman or Rahim or Kamil etc does not become Allah or Allah does not become person!

        Questions 5 to 10 do not belong to Vedas and thus do not merit any response. Remember what I wrote when i invited you for debate-

        “Lets have discussion/debate on Vedas, Quran and ahadith right here. I am ready to convert to Islam if you could answer my questions. Same is expected from you. What say?”

        So dont lie now Brother. Anyway please dont tell me what is the basis of Hinduism and what is not. I follow Vedas alone and I made it clear already. If you cant debate with me, fine. But do not dictate me what is the basis of my belief. I can say that grave worship or Peer worship, all Hadith of Sunnis, Shias, all Seerat are the basis of your religion which are believed by most of the Muslims. Can you defend this foolishness called grave worship and all Hadith and Seerat written for Muhammad? Are you ready to accept these as pillars of your faith because most of the Muslims believe in it?

        You ask me what is Hinduism, I will say Vedas just like Islam for you means Quran and Hadith. So lets not question each other on which we dont have faith. Anyway, I will put my views on these five questions with the hope that it terminates with my comments and you will ask questions about Vedas alone.

        6. No person can have the head of elephant. This story is false.
        7. Hanuman was a person. He belonged to Kapi Vansh, which is misunderstood as monkeys. It is like someone says that a person called “Ram Singh” is a lion because he belongs to “Singh” dynasty!
        8. Ram was not God. He was great person.
        9. This story is false.
        10. Some perverts portrayed Krishna as characterless person but he was never like that. His real history is found in Mahabharat. He was a great man. All immoral stories about him are baseless, we dont believe in those.

        Now I will put few things which are definitely bases of your religion since those belong to Quran and Hadith.

        1. How could Marry become Mother Marry without being touched by any male? If this could happen in past, why dont we see it today?
        2. How could moon be broken down into two by Muhammad? What is the science behind that?
        3. Muhammad went to skies to meet Allah on a flying donkey called Buraq. Why dont we see any such donkey today?
        4. How could this world come into existence from “nothing” when as per science, energy/matter can neither be created?
        5. Bukhari, 1.298:
        Narrated `Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. [Another version of this Hadith published from Pakistan has been quoted by Ghulam Jelani Barq, a renowned Islamic scholar from Pakistan, in his book Do Islam, as follows-
        Ayesha said, “When Rasoolullah desired to have intercourse with me while I menstruated, he would order me to tie a piece of cloth around my waist.” (Bukhari, The Book of Menstruation vol 1 pg 24)]

        Can you tell me, what kind of prophet, Muhammad was, who had such low character, who disobeyed Allah’s word not to approach women in their menses and not to marry more than 4? What kind of science is hidden in points 1 to 4?

        best regards

      • Dear Brother Vajra

        Hope you are fine.

        1-You said”Why did not Allah create before (since this creation is the first time creation of Allah)”.

        Please tell me any Quranic Verse or Sahih-Hadith exactly saying that this is first time creation of Allah.Then I will be able to reply to your question in correct sense.

        Allah existed before creation.
        Lets take an example of an Artist.An artist create painting(even if you take this creation as firsrt creation).But the Artist who is creating painting(even first time) has to exist before the creation of painting to draw a painting.Artist create painting because he has attribute to draw a painting.But artist has the attribute of drawing painting before actually drawing.So,it is the choice of an artist to draw painting whenever he wants.

        Similarly for God to create a Creation, he has to exist before creation.And it is God’s Choice when to create a Creation.Thats a simlple common sense.

        If you want to study the topic “Purpose of Creation “in detail then I can refer you a book-“The Purpose of Creation” by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips .I cannot write this whole book here so you has to read it by yourself.

        2-I want to make clear that this Creation is not “Infinite” it is “Finite” .It has its beginninig and its end.Only Allah is “Infinite”.Allah did not has beginning neither End.

        3-Nothing can happen without Allah’s will.But humans are given FREE WILL to choose right or wrong.But what will human choose in thier life Allah knows in advance because he is the creater of Humans.

        4-You said” Does Allah have power to do ungodly things and still remain God”

        Answer-I am answering this question again-

        The attributes of Almighty God preclude any evil since God is the source of justice, mercy and truth. God can never be thought of as doing an ungodly act. Hence we cannot imagine God telling a lie, being unjust, making a
        mistake, forgetting things, or having any such human failings. Similarly God can do injustice if He chooses to, but He will never do it because being unjust is an ungodly act.

        The Qur’an says:

        “Allah is never unjust In the least degree.”[Al-Qur’an 4:40]

        God can be unjust if He chooses to be so, but the moment God does injustice, He ceases to be God.

        God does not make mistakesGod can make mistakes if He wants to, but He does not make mistakes because making a mistake is an ungodly act. The Qur’an says
        “…my Lord never errs.”[Holy Qur’an 20:52]

        The moment God makes a mistake, he ceases to be God.

        God does not forget.God can forget if He wants to. But God does not forget anything because forgetting is an ungodly act, which reeks of human limitations and failings. The Qur’an says:

        “…my Lord never errs, nor forgets.”[Al-Qur’an 20:52]

        God only performs Godly acts:The Islamic concept of God is that God has power over all things. The Qur’an says in several places (Al -Qur’an 2:106; 2:109; 2:284; 3:29; 16:77; and 35:1):

        “For verily Allah has power over all things”

        Further, the Glorious Qur’an says:

        “Allah is the doer of all that He intends.”[Al-Qur’an 85:16]

        We must keep in mind that Allah intends only Godly acts and not ungodly acts.

        This is my final answer.If you want to accept it or reject it, then it is your choice.100 times you ask the same quetion 100 times I will reply the same answer.So dont ask the same thing again and again.

        5-Yes,I believe in Sahih-Hadiths i.e. Sahih-Al Bukhari,Sahih-Muslim.

        Arguments on Vedas-

        1-First of all, the only English translation available on internet of Vedas(which I know of) is of Griffith.Some of your Hindu sites also used his translation.
        My Hindi is not very good so I will not be able to read Vedas from the link you had provided.I read all religious texts in English because English is an internationally acceptable language.It also helps to do comparitive studies
        in religious texts easily.

        Also the link you provided did not has a proper index.And I dont have so much time to read full Mandals.

        You advised me to learn Sanskrit.Similarly if this is so simple then I advise you to learn Arabic to understand Quran more correctly.
        Why should I learn the language which is dead.But you should learn Arabic because it is the only ancient language which is alive today and still speaked.

        So this means that we cannot have discussion on Vedas.Because when I will give you some verse then they will be from Griffith naturally as the only English translation online.But you will not accept.And when you will give me
        some verses then from where would I be able to check that you are quoting correctly.

        I myself prefers Yusuf Ali’s translation of Quran.

        2&3-Same is the case on verses on Incest as I denoted above.

        Adam and Eve-
        Coming togethher will siblings is incest anytime.But in early days of Adam and Eve it was allowed because it was necessary to reproduce other generations.But when humans become enogh then it was made a sin.

        No,I dont beleive that two off springs born at different time are not siblings.I have not emphasized on multiple twins one after another I had only told you what is truth.

        4-Did Saraswati was not Brahma’s wife.Did Parvati was not Shiva’s wife.If not simly say NO.And you are going against millions of Hindus.

        Muhammad(pbuh) never married a 6 year girl.He married a 9 year girl.He did not raped Rehana.

        5-Still my this question remains same what is the name of God in original language in which Vedas were revealed.And Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva were different persons not same.

        I am sorry for putting question 5 to 10.I had asked them because I thought that you also believe in these false gODS.From now I will not ask these type of Question.I am glad to hear that you did not believe in such stupid things.

        But I advise you to please told Agniveer to write or yourself write an article on telling Hindu brothers that Ganesh did not had the elephant head.He was not god.Hanuman was not monkey god.Ram was not god.Brahma did not
        born from the navel of Vishnu and that Krishna did not used to look at bathing girls.

        Why dont you people write such articles.Why are you not trying to make refrom in Hinduism which is corrupt and filled with these kind of false myths.I know why because you are too busy in critising Islam.

        Now your new questions-

        1- How could Marry become Mother Marry without being touched by any male? If this could happen in past, why dont we see it today?

        Answer-Yes Jesus Christ(pbuh) was born without any male intervention.It was the miracle and sign from Allah to the Jews.For Allah it is very easy to make anything.Allah tells in Quran that creation of Jesus(pbuh) is similar to
        the creation of Adam(pbuh).As Jesus(pbuh) was born without any Father. Adam(pbuh) was created without any Father and Mother.So,it is very easy for Allah to create humans without Father.Allah only has to say ‘Be’ and it is.

        Now I ask you according to you how was first humans on earth created without Father and Mother.If it is possible for God to create humans without both the father and mother then it is also very easy to create Jesus(pbuh) without Father.

        It was sign of God to Jews.Sign of God to us today is Quran.

        I had not asked the question 5-10 to question faith of hindus.But I had asked them because I wanted to know how can Ganesh with Elephant head be gOD.How can Hanuman be monkey god.

        2- How could moon be broken down into two by Muhammad? What is the science behind that?
        Answer-Again this was miracle and sign from Allah.

        Also please check the link below which I think has some Scientific Evidence of Splitting of moon.

        http://www.zimbio.com/Islam/articles/nABee8OcI1R/Scientific+Evidence+Miracles+Prophet+Muhammad
        http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k8_news/march/22moon_crack.htm

        3- Muhammad went to skies to meet Allah on a flying donkey called Buraq. Why dont we see any such donkey today?

        Answer-Again this was miracle and sign from Allah.

        4-How could this world come into existence from “nothing” when as per science, energy/matter can neither be created.

        Answer-As per science energy/matter can neither be created.But by WHOM.By humans.
        But matter/energy can be created by God.

        5-For Hadith you quoted-

        It is allowed in Islam to cuddle or fondle one’s wife during her menses.But man cannot have sexual INTERCOURSE with his wife in her menses.

        The bottom line is a man may share the bed with his wife but he is not allowed to have sexual intercourse with her in those days, because it is not good for either of them.

        It is recorded that in those times The Jews and used to go to extremes in avoiding any physical contact with menstruating women, while the Christians continue to have sexual relations with them without regard to the flow of blood. The Arabs of the period of jahiliyyah would not eat, drink, or sit with women who were menstruating and would send them to separate dwelling just as the Jews did.

        Accordingly, some Muslims asked the Prophet about what is permitted and what is forbidden in relation to menstruating women. The following verse was then revealed:

        2:222-And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is an illness; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed
        themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.— translated by M. H. Shakir

        Some people understood the phrase, “Refrain from women, as meaning that they should not live together in the same house during the menstrual periods. The Prophet then explained the correct meaning of this verse, saying,I ordered you only to refrain from having intercourse with menstruating women and did not tell you to send them out of the house as the foreigners do.

        Thus the Muslim can fondle his menstruating wife, avoiding only the place of hurt. The Islamic position in this regard is as always, a middle one, between the one extreme of expelling the menstruating woman from the house and the other extreme of having intercourse with her.

        Muhammad(pbuh) was also a man he also had the desires that man has.And it is allowed so why you think it is bad for Muhammad(pbuh) to do so.

        On Prophet (pbuh) marrying more then 4 wives-

        First of all, their were some orders which were different and exclusive for Prophet(pbuh) then common Muslim I will tell it below.

        Some people may see more then 4 wives as a privilege to the Prophet. However, with privileges did come restrictions as well.

        Qiyam Al Layl (prayers at two third of the night) are not compulsory on Muslims, however they were compulsory on the Prophet. Allah told the Prophet…

        Surah 17:79
        And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great glory.

        This verse is directly addressed to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). (See Tafsir of Ibn Kathir)

        So here we see an example of God making exceptions to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in certain situations.

        Well there was other reasons like political and religious behind the marriage to each of the wives of the Prophet.Which I can tell you if you want.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Namaste Brother Abdullah
        I am fine and hope better for you.

        Discussion on Islam

        1. You wrote- “Please tell me any Quranic Verse or Sahih-Hadith exactly saying that this is first time creation of Allah”

        Can you tell me a verse or Hadith which unequivocally states that Allah has created before too? Moreover, if you believe that this is not the first creation and Allah used to create before too, you are anyway following Vedic philosophy in this regard! But then you have to answer many things. Do previous heavens and hells exist now? If no, then eternity of heaven and hell has no meaning. If yes then where does Quran talk about these previous heavens and hells? Also, Was Quran same as the current one for previous creations also?

        Your artist’s example is fallacious Brother. First of all an artists becomes so by practice. No one can make a perfect painting in first go! More he draws, better he becomes. So, when an artist attempts to paint for the first time, may be he wont be able to draw even a straight line or a circle. That time he does not have attributes to be called as artist. Then he practices and sharpens his skills and slowly he is known to be an artist. So an artist is recognized by his paintings and not that painting is recognized by artist! Now tell me, is Allah like that?

        And most importantly, you have contradicted yourself. In previous to previous comment you wrote- “Creation is fundamentally the consequence of the divine attribute of being the Creator. A creator who does not create is something of a contradiction in terms.”

        And now, you say- “So,it is the choice of an artist to draw painting whenever he wants.”

        I ask you, can someone be called as creator who has not created anything till now from infinite time? (this question is applicable for the time just before this creation). If no, it is proven that Allah was not creator! If yes, Allah is someone who contradicts Himself because “A creator who does not create is something of a contradiction in terms”, in your words!

        God’s choice will again pinch His attribute to be perfect! A perfect entity always does best. He never plays with the choices. Whatever is best, He will always do that whatever is not, He will never do that. If “to create” is best, God will always create, and if “not to create” is best, He will never create. So no question of will comes into picture.

        2. You did not give answers to any of my question Brother! BTW, creation is endless as heaven and hell and their residents are promised to exist forever by none other than Allah in Quran! Thus creation has beginning but no end as per Quran!

        3. No its not that Allah just knows, but whatever happens good or bad, it goes in sync with Allah’s will! I again ask, why did not Allah will good for all so that no worries and eternal hell fire for many would remain?

        4. So you say that God does not have power “to do ungodly things and still remain God”, is it?

        5. Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a Woman.” (Bukhari,V1B9N493)

        The Messenger of ‘Allah said: …prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black Dog. When he was asked about the specialty of black dog, he said: The black dog is a devil. (Muslim, Book #004, Hadith #1032)

        Can you tell me why woman is kept with dog and ass?

        ‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’ (Muslim:B1N142)

        Can you tell me about this great respect shown for the women in this Hadith? Do you also think that women have low intellect than men?

        Discussion on Vedas

        1. First of all, please dont compare Vedas with Quran. Vedas never say that people of different faiths will be sent to hell permanently. Quran says so and thus it forces people to believe blindly in it. Even if you could not understand Quran, you have to accept it true otherwise you will be in hell. So Quran does not give me enough time to think as I dont know when I am going to die, but Vedas do. You will start your journey from the point you left in previous birth. So opportunities are always there to get yourself improved without believing something to be true without testing it. So Allah should have provided Quran in all languages of the world and not in just Arabic. Because no man, no matter how much pure he is, would be able to translate the word of God to other language correctly, right? So I have no choice but to believe in that translation itself! This is what I am doing. It’s Allah’s fault that He made things easy for Arabs but difficult for non Arabs. But Vedas are same for all to be understood because Sanskrit was the only language present at that time and today also, every language is equally distant from Sanskrit. So it will take more or less same efforts to learn Sanskrit for every person belonging any part of the world.

        I never said that the criterion of something to be God’s word is its availability in English on net! Rather Zakir Naik and co say the same and get mocked when someone says that all Hollywood movies are available on net and are in English, then they are also from God! I never promised you that Vedas will be available in English. But, I said that you can learn them yourself, please take your time, as you will not be thrown in hell just for not believing in them.

        One more thing! When you accept that you have not read Vedas, how can you debate me Brother? Why did not you tell this in your first post that you have not read Vedas? When you dont know what Vedas say, how will you prove the superiority of Quran over Vedas? You say- Quran is best! It has to be for you because it is the only book you have read in the name of religion! You even dont know what I believe and you are still debating me! For what? How can you?

        Regarding Arabic, I know that just 10% of Muslims (may be less) know Arabic, forget about the world. Then by your logic, why is Arabic worth learning?

        2. You did not tell me Brother, what do you think of Vedic style of starting of humans where Allah produced multiple couples i.e. many males and many females and then started sexual reproduction, so that no incest is practiced even at that time. Can you compare Vedas and Quran on this and give me an unbiased view?

        4. These stories are fake and are not found in Vedas anywhere. I dont even believe in the existence of someone with elephant head or four hands or whatever then their marriage and off springs are automatically rejected. I dont care going against even billions when I know that truth is with me. Logic of majority carries weight for fools, not for intelligent.

        Proof from Sahih Hadith that Muhammad married a girl of 6

        Sahih Bukhari Vol 5.236:
        Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married `Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

        Sahih Bukhari 7.64:
        Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then
        she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)

        Sahih Bukhari 7.65:
        Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham
        said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).

        Sahih Bukhari 7.88:
        Narrated ‘Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with `Aisha while
        she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

        Now since you have been proven to be wrong on Aisha’s age, now its your turn to first apologize for the lie Brother. I will give proof of Rehana’s rape from Seerat when you apologize for the above.

        5. Eeshvar’s name is “Om”. He is also called Shiv, Vishnu, Brahma, Bhagwan, Prabhu, Mitra, Indra just because of His qualities. I give you the meanings of these words as per Sanskrit

        Vishnu- Vyaapak- Omnipresent
        Shiv- Kalyan karne wala- Giver of Blessings
        Brahma- Sabse Bada- Above all
        Bhagwan- Bhajne yogya- worthy to be worshipped
        Mitr- Dost- True friend
        Indra- Shaktimaan- Omnipotent (who does not need help in performing His work)

        Regarding your advice to Agniveer, Brother please visit http://agniveer.com/2006/hinduism-obscene/. Agniveer has more articles on Vedas and philosophy than any other. But the problem is that Muslim friends dont want to read anything about Vedas. They have restricted themselves to few books and assumed those to be worth believing. Please read articles on Vedas on this site, then you would know what Agniveer is actually doing.

        About my new questions

        Brother why are you lying openly by saying- “But I had asked them because I wanted to know how can Ganesh with Elephant head be gOD. How can Hanuman be monkey god.”

        Lets now see what you asked

        “Question-6-Why Ganesh had the elephant head. Is this possible scientifically.

        Question-7-What happened to the generation of Hanuman(monkey god) now.I dont see any monkey talking now.Where are their generation gone.”

        Did you get my point? You questioned faith of Hindus indeed. And now you are saying you were not! Its upto you to apologize or not for your lies.

        Now listen Brother. Just like you justify your unscientific and illogical beliefs of moon breaking, Jesus without father, flying Buraq, Moses talking to stones etc, same way many Hindus too think that all such stuffs were Leela of God! Now you say their Leela to be unscientific but yours as miracle/sign! Its pure hypocrisy. As per you when God can do everything, for many Hindus too, God can make a human with elephant head etc.

        Anyway, I dont believe in either, be it foolishness of Maujaja or Leela, it is against Eeshvar’s trait to act against His own laws.

        4. When I saw you taking shelter of science in condemning Hindus beliefs, I did it same for Islamic beliefs! And you could not defend your faith scientifically just like any Hindu who cant defend head of elephant scientifically. So no difference at all in Hindu and Muslim superstition except that Hindus dont pray hell for unbelievers of their superstition but Muslims do!

        5. Regarding fondling, can you please tell me, why Muhammad used to order to put Izar (cloth below the waist) to Aisha before fondling? It is too vulgar to be discussed Brother. You cant defend it.

        Can you tell me Brother, what was the political reason for Muhammad behind having sexual relationship with the slave (Maria) of his wife in her absence? This slave Maria later gave birth to Muhammad’s son.

        What I believe is that Islam cant be defended by logic, which we have seen so far. Most of your arguments are of the type- it was special for Muhammad, Allah can do anything, Allah showed signs, more people follow this or that etc, whenever you are asked about logical and scientific errors in Islam.

        Now I ask you, what do you find better, One Allah of Vedas, without any associated person/stone/angel/heavens/hell or an Allah of Quran who is associated by Muhammad (in prayers), Kaba stone (in prayers), angels, heaven and hell in order to get heaven?

        best regards

      • Dear Vajra

        Sorry for late reply.I was very busy.
        Hope you are fine.

        Discussion on Islam-

        1-About “Quranic Verse or Sahih-Hadith exactly saying that this is first time creation of Allah or not”.

        First of all, I did not know of any verses saying that this is the first time creation neither of any verses saying that it is not a first time creation.So, My answer is I dont know.Only Allah Knows.

        First I had asked you to give me the verses which says that this is first time creation according to Quran.So if you have some tell me.On my side I did not know and I did not have a need to know.I am interested in more realistic
        topics, not in the topics on which human-mind will never be able to get clear answer.

        Brother,Allah did not require any kind of practise before actually creating anything.He only says(or will) ‘Be’ and it is.I am amazed to listen from a knowledgeable person like you that God requires practise according to you.Can God require practise,Practising before actual performance is quality of Humans not of God.

        2-This creation has its end with the end of our universe.Then again Allah will create us on the Day of Judgment.To decide about whose faith was correct and who had done good dees.According to that we will be given either Heaven or Hell.

        3-I agin answer in same way that Humans had given free will.And they have the chioce to choose the right or wrong path.

        4-Again same answer that Allah do whatever he intends and Allah intends only Godly acts and not ungodly acts.So there is no question of Allah doing ungodly acts.

        I have given my thoughts on these 1-4, so please dont play with words.If you accept my answer then it is your choice and if you reject them then also it is your choice.So dont ask these again and again.My answers will remain same.

        5-For hadiths you quoted.

        Sahih Bukhari Volume 1 Book 9 Hadith 493-

        Hadith you quoted-
        “Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a Woman.” (Bukhari,V1B9N493)”

        Full Hadith-
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, “You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet.”

        This full Hadith answers your question itself.But I will give you details.

        Notes on the legal rulings based on this hadith and its meaning:

        The passing of the above-mentioned in front of the person at prayer does not invalidate his prayer according to the vast majority of the Imams of Law, Salaf and Khalaf (early and late authorities) who concur that the meaning
        of “will cut off his prayer” is not literal but means: “will make his prayer imperfect” due to the distraction they will cause in people’s hearts, while Imam Ahmad considered that only the passing of a black dog actually invalidates it. This was mentioned by Imam al-Nawawi in Sharh Sahih Muslim and al-Mubarakfuri in Tuhfa al-Ahwadhi.

        In other words the hadith does not view women as impure or equal to animals, thats nonsense, what the hadith ment is that women who pass by in front of a praying person , can distract that person during his prayer (which would make his prayer imperfect) , just like a dogg will distract his prayer. It’s like beauty and the beast, the beauty can distract his attention (due to it’s beauty) and the beast can distract his attention (due to it’s smell or sound/wildness etc) .

        Sahih Muslim Book 4 Hadith 1032-

        Abu Dharr reported: The Messenger of ‘Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not
        before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, his prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black Dog.I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and
        the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil.

        Again the hadith doesn’t say ‘nullify’ but ‘disrupt’ which in the other hadith quoted before is explained as ‘will cut off his prayer’ , which means ‘”will make his prayer imperfect” due to the distraction they will cause in people’s
        hearts.

        The hadith in question do not compare women at all with animals, secondly the hadith in question talks about things that mostly distract men from prayer, in other words it’s all about distraction.

        In other words it’s all about distraction (things that can distract a man during prayer, which would make his prayer less perfect) , a beautifull women can distract a man during prayer, just like a stinking ass or wild dogg can distract a man during prayer, this does not mean that women and asses/dogs are viewed equal (which is a redicilous claim) , it’s beauty and the beast, but both can distract a man during prayer. The fact that women are singled out in the hadith quoted has to do with the fact , that women more likely can distract a men from prayer , then muslim-men can do to other muslim-men (when a man for example is offering an extra prayer on the street somewhere, cause normally during the 5 obligated prayer-times, all muslims have to pray, except menstruating women or little children) . However every person has it’s own nature and weakness, some can easily get distracted (even by other muslim-men) during prayer while others not, thats why the general rule is that nobody should pass by a praying person , women AND MEN.

        Sahih Muslim Book 1 Hadith 142-

        It is narrated on the authority of ‘Abdullah b. Umar that the Messenger of Allah observed: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady
        among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell ? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense
        and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense, and you spend some nights (and days) in which you do not offer prayer and in the month of Ramadan (during the days) you do not observe fast, that is a failing in religion.
        This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Tahir with this chain of transmitters.

        No I did not consider women have low intellect than men

        Answer for this hadith is on –

        http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/women_not_deficient_in_intelligence_and_religion.htm

        This topic is very vast so I cannot write full answer here so please check the above mentioned link.

        Discussion on Vedas-

        1-How did you know from where you had left studying about God in previous birth and from where you should start in this birth.How did you know that you was a Man in previous birth, you could be Cow,Hen etc.

        How did you know Sanskrit was the only language in whole world when Veads were revealed.

        I want to read Vedas in English online because I want to compare them with Quran,Bible etc.Without common language it is not possible for me to compare religious texts and find what is true.So it is a short-comings of Hindus that correct translation of Vedas are not online.

        I am debating with you to understand Vedas not to prove any superiority.So please tell me in which doctrines do you believe.

        e,g,CHRISTAINS belive in following Doctrines-
        1-Doctrine of Trinity
        2-Doctrine of Divinity of Jesus Christ(pbuh)
        3-Doctrine of Original Sin
        4-Doctrine of Crucifixion and Resurrestion of Christ
        5-Doctrine of Salvation.

        So in what doctrines YOU belive in.After that we can have appropriate discussion.

        2&3-You still had not written correct translation of Incest dealing verses on Vedas here.If you has correct translation then please tell me.Otherwise it is logical that translation which I have given you is correct.

        No,I dont think that Allah had created multiple couples.I think that all of Humanity have come from same couple Adam and Eve.

        Also give me verses from Vedas God himself says that He created multiple couples.

        4-I am glad to hear that you did not believe in such stupid thing.

        Now hadith you quoted for age of Aisha at the time of her marriage-

        Sahih Bukhari Vol 5.236:
        Narrated Hishams father
        Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

        Sahih Bukhari 7.88:
        Narrated Ursa
        The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

        Other two hadiths are also same.

        Now answer is already in these Hadiths.The marriage contract may have been written when she was 6 but the actual marriage i.e. Ayesha(ra) goes into the household of Prophet(pbuh) happenend when she was 9.

        She was engaged to Prophet(pbuh) at age of 6 but actual marriage happened at age of 9.I think you know that there is difference between engagement and marriage.

        In my locality their is a cast of Milkmen known as “Ghoosi”.In these people marriage is settled at very young age(before 18).But actual marriage i.e. Bride going into Grroms hous -hold or Bride-Groom having sexual intercouse happened after some years when both spouses reach adulthood.This is known as “Goana”.So same is the case above mentioned.

        Almost All Muslim scholars agree 100% that Muhammad(saw) and Aisha(ra) were engaged before marriage

        Back then, the people of Mecca(even enemies of Prophet(pbuh)) did not object to Ayesha(ra)’s marriage because she was physically mature enough to be considered for marriage. Her parents saw that and they married her.

        Also Hinduism, finds it’s roots in early marriages of the girls. Child marriage of daughters 5-6 years old was common due to the custom of dowry and to avoid scandals [Nand 17] [Basham 167-8] [Yadav 70] [Altekar 16] [Banerjee 70]. Hindu Law books prescribe that the best partner for a man in one-third his age. Thus a man 18 year old should marry a girl 6 years old! –

        “A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner.” [Manu IX.94]

        This was meant to prevent any scandals. Narada states that some of the defects to be avoided in brides are if they already had a relationship with another man or have their minds set on another, they should not be selected [Sheth 67].

        So, what we have to keep in mind is, not only was it a custom in the Arab society as well, to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the other olden world societies.

        For Rehana-First i dont know which Seerat you are talking about.Tell me and I will try to answer you.

        About your question-

        Question 1-4 – You said Islam could not be defended scientifically”

        I can 100% prove to you that Quran is word of God scientifically.If you want to.After that all which Quran tells automatically will become true and acceptable.

        I will start proving Quran is God’s word from my next post if you want.

        5-Muhammad(pbuh) used to order to put Izar (cloth below the waist) to Aisha before fondling because it is not allowed in Islam to have sexual intercourse in menses.Also to prevent any intercoursal sexual contact.What is problem in this.Please tell me what is your exact question.

        From which I understand you think that Prophet(pbuh) violated teachings of Quran.
        Answer-No proof has been put forth that suggests that the Prophet (peace be upon him) violated the teachings of the Qur’an. It seems pretty obvious that the Prophet (peace be upon him) understood that the Qur’an was only
        restricting men from having sex with their wives during their menstrual periods. Otherwise, why would the Prophet (peace be upon him) tell Aisha to put on an izar? If the Prophet (peace be upon him) was willing to go
        the extra mile and disobey Allah’s commands then he could have just proceeded on to have sex instead of just fondling. The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) only fondled during the menstrual cycle of his wife makes it pretty obvious that he understood what the Qur’an’s actual limitations were.

        Who tell you that Muhammad(pbuh) had sexual relationship with the slave (Maria) of his wife in HER ABSENCE

        Regarding Maria-
        “The Egyptian Mariyah, she was offered to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as a slave gift from Al-Muqawqis, the leader of the Copts, in return for the Prophet’s message calling them to Islam. Instead of taking her to serve in his household, he kindly settled her in a house of her own. She embraced Islam. Some sources say that she was freed and was one of the Mothers of the Believers. She bore the Prophet his son Ibrahim, who died early.”

        So sources varied about Maria being concubine or wife of Prophet(pbuh).

        There is not a single scientific error in Quran.

        In Islam Allah is only one without second and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is only his MESSENGER.Their is not a single Muslim in this world which I know says that Muhammad(pbuh) is God or Worship him or associate him with Allah.
        Kaba is not an idol it is only a common direction of prayer.

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Namaste Brother Abdullah

        1. Please refer to my questions regarding heaven, hell and Quran in case of previous creation. If Quran does not tell anything about past and future, it is incomplete. Regarding Allah and artist example, it were you who gave example of artist as an example to clarify your stand on Allah and now when your example went wrong, you are asking me about it! Brother, its your duty now to explain your concept with some different example because the current one is fallacious and you accepted it!

        2. My question was not that who will get heaven or hell. I just grabbed your attention towards concept of eternity of heaven, hell and their residents as given in Quran, which is contrary to what you said that without Allah no one is eternal!

        3. It means that any sin no matter howsoever worse goes hand in hand with Allah’s will! So Kufra exists because Kuffar chose it and Allah also wills it! But it contradicts with many verses of Quran which say that Allah angers at those who disbelieve! Why to get angry over something which has gone in sync with your own will?

        4. So you accept that Allah cant do everything, right? (Just like He cant remain God after doing ungodly things)

        5. Distraction of mind can occur more when an elephant or camel or snake passes in front of you than dog or ass then why just dog and ass are counted? It means that the logic of distraction of mind is the invention of Mullahs to give these Hadith some human touch. But unfortunately they failed to do so either!

        This Hadith gives us the hint that Allah is only concerned about men and not women. If He were for women too, He would have ordered that passing of man or woman annuls prayer, because woman’s mind can deviate when some man passes in front of her. So if this Hadith is taken seriously, women have no importance in Islam, it is proven! And look, this Hadith applies for men only, this also proves Islam to be gender biased.

        Regarding lower intellect and deficiency of women in religion, please put your arguments on the basis of Hadith and prove that Hadith is justified, or accept that Hadith is wrong and you reject it. The link you gave is too confusing, better give the essence of it in a para or two.

        Discussion on Vedas

        I dont need to remember my past. Eeshvar takes care of it that I will start my journey from the point where I ended previously. He gives me strength and potential in the form of body and intellect as per my previous deeds. Moreover my surroundings, which I learn the most from, work out for me so that I get exactly what I deserve. This is complex management managed by biggest manager Eeshvar. Objective of all this is to help us attain the state of bliss.

        Vedas were revealed at the beginning of human life. So that time the only language had to be the language of revelations, i.e. Sanskrit!

        I think we are here to discuss Vedas, Quran and Hadith and not to highlight shortcomings of Hindus or Muslims. Shortcomings of Muslims are more than that of Hindus as a whole and you know that (Bombings, violence etc). But that is irrelevant here.

        I dont believe in any of the doctrine you listed. I believe that Eeshvar, Aatma (soul), and Prakriti (matter) are beginningless and endless entities. Eeshvar helps souls do Karma (by creating universe out of matter) and thus to achieve bliss through noble thoughts and actions. Since Eeshvar takes care of us and always wants best for us, He is considered as mother, father, teacher, master etc. We should worship Him alone and no one else.

        2&3. I have provided you the link of Hindi translation already. But I will provide you English translation soon. Please wait.

        I asked your opinion that is it not better if Allah would avoid incest from starting itself as given in Vedas? Anyway, Yajurved [31/9] tells that many people are created in the starting of each creation

        “Ten devaa ayajant saadhyaa rishayashcha ye”

        Meaning- Eeshvar creates people and Rishis in the starting and gives them knowledge. [Devaa, Saadhyaa, and Rishayah all have come as plural in Mantra]

        4. I am glad that you are glad! I will be more glad when you will stop believing in foolish things like talking stones, she camel born from stone, breaking of moon, flying donkey etc which are as foolish as believing in human with elephant head!

        Regarding Hadith, I could not understand Brother, what is the difference between marriage and “actual marriage”! You denied that Muhammad married Aisha at 6 and now I have given proofs from Hadith.

        Even if Muhammad consummated his marriage when Aisha was 9, it is still shameful. A girl of 6 or 9 does not know anything about marriage. So please accept that either Hadith are wrong or Muhammad did wrong. Justifying this shameful act as old tradition or common tradition of that time cant serve any purpose when you claim someone to be prophet. And dont forget, his marriage with Aisha at the age of 6 was divinely fixed by Allah! So no way you can defend it as tradition. Tell me, idol worship, drinking, gambling etc were also traditions of Arabs then why did Muhammad oppose them?

        I condemn any such practice anywhere in society be it Hindu or Muslim. Any portion of the book allowing child molestation is garbage in my eyes, be it in Sanskrit or Arabic.

        For Rehana, I am talking about Ibn Ishak’s Seerat Rasool Allah.

        You dont need to prove whole Quran scientifically! Please explain breaking of moon, flying donkey, Jesus without father, stones talking to Moses, she camel born from a stone, sea giving path to Muhammad by getting divided into two portions, scientifically.

        5. Regarding Izar, you wrote- “Also to prevent any intercoursal sexual contact”

        This is what i was pointing to. How can intercoursal sexual contact occur by just fondling unless you really go for intercourse? Or you want to say that if someone looses his control while fondling then to prevent… Do these things suit any great person?

        Regarding Maria, “her absence” denotes Muhammad’s wife Hafsa, who was mistress of Maria. Maria was concubine of Muhammad, there is no dispute over it.

        Can there be any Muslim who wants to remember only Allah in his prayers and thus refuses to recite “Muhammad ur rasul allah” along with La ilaah illillah? If Kalma is incomplete without Muhammad, prayer is incomplete without Muhammad, Jannat is impossible without believing in Muhammad, how does it matter if you believe him as X, Y or Z or prophet or God? Crux of the matter is Muhammad is as important as Allah to get heaven. This is mockery of Tauheed. Same applies for Kaba, without bowing to, my prayers are not accepted! So it is certainly more than direction.

        Please think about Vedic Dharm in which you just need to believe in One Allah/Eeshvar but not in any human and you dont need to bow down to any stone or direction. You just have to love and follow Omnipresent Eeshvar/Allah who is alone capable of providing us bliss and thus no need to believe anyone except Him. You wont find true Tauheed anywhere except Vedas.

        best regards

      • Dear Vajra

        Hope you are fine.

        1-First of all I accept everything written in Quran because I know that it is God’s word.I will try to prove to you that Quran is God’s word below in this post.Then automatically your all questions will be answered.

        2-No,Heaven and Hell are not eternal.The things which can be eternal should not has its Beginning.But Allah had created Heaven and Hell.So they are created things.They are not eternal.Because they have a Beginning.

        3-Again answer is same that Humans had given free will.And they have the chioce to choose the right or wrong path.Allah did not force Humans to do things.But he knows that what will they do.

        4-Same answer that Allah do whatever he intends and Allah intends only Godly acts and not ungodly acts.So there is no question of Allah doing ungodly acts.

        For 1-4- I have given answers which I have in my knowledge.Its to you to accept or reject it.These answers are personally mine and not of entire Muslims.So,please dont play with words and dont ask same thing again and again.For me topic 1-4 is completed.

        5-Hadith-

        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, “You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet.”

        Brother this Hadtith when taken full answer your question itself.Why?

        We see in this Hadith that Ayesha(ra) asked the same question you are asking.But hadith continous and Ayesha(ra) tells us that she saw Prophet(pbuh) praying while she was lieing in (her) bed between him and Qibla.So if the purpose of Prophet(pbuh) was to disrespect women then he should have told Ayesha (ra) to go out of the room.So its all about distraction.One’s wife will naturally distract a person less then compared to other women(Non-Mahrams).

        In other words the hadith does not view women as impure or equal to animals, thats nonsense, what the hadith ment is that women who pass by in front of a praying person(men or women) , can distract that person during his prayer (which would make his prayer imperfect) , just like a dog(or other beast) will distract his prayer. It’s like beauty and the beast, the beauty can distract his attention (due to it’s beauty) and the beast can distract his attention (due to it’s smell or sound/wildness etc) .Same is the case for both Men and WOMEN.

        The fact that women are singled out in the hadith quoted has to do with the fact , that women more likely can distract a men from prayer , then muslim-men can do to other muslim-men (when a man for example is offering an extra prayer on the street somewhere, cause normally during the 5 obligated prayer-times, all muslims have to pray, except menstruating women or little children) . However every person has it’s own nature and weakness, some can easily get distracted (even by other muslim-men) during prayer while others not, thats why the general rule is that nobody should pass by a praying person, women AND MEN.

        So while women is praying then MEN should also not pass by her.

        Also let us look at another Hadith

        Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 489:

        Narrated Busr bin Said: that Zaid bin Khalid sent him to Abi Juhaim to ask him what he had heard from Allah’s Apostle about a person passing in front of another person who was praying. Abu Juhaim replied, “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If the person who passes in front of another person in prayer knew the magnitude of his sin he would prefer to wait for 40 (days, months or years) rather than to pass in front of him.” Abu An-Nadr said, “I do not remember exactly whether he said 40 days, months or years.”

        Here the prophet clearly tells us that such a person (could be man or woman) would commit a sin, why would he commit a sin ? Off course because he probably could distract a person during prayer, which could ‘cut off’ that persons prayer (make his prayer less perfect or imperfect) . So both men and women can distract a person during prayer, which would ‘cut off’ / make less perfect ‘ someones prayer. The reason that women are sometimes singled out in a hadith, is because a beautifull women more likely distracts a man from prayer then an ordinary muslim-man and secondly in most cases during the normal 5 times a day obligated prayer, all men have to pray except menstruating women, thats why the prophet pointed out to ‘menstruating women’ in other hadiths and not to men, since they are obligated to pray.

        Regarding lower intellect and deficiency of women in religion-

        When Islam discusses the deficiencies of women, it is neither insulting them nor belittling them. Some men, unfortunately, do precisely that when they quote the words of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that women “have
        a deficiency in their intellect and their religion”. They take these words out of context as a means of oppressing women and putting them down.

        The Prophet (peace be upon him) meant something quite different. He said: “I have never seen among those who have a deficiency in their intellect and their religion anyone more capable than women of swaying the intellect of the most determined of men.” He is actually asserting here the power of women to influence men and sway their opinion. This is one of the distinctions that women, in their natures, have.

        He then went on to define precisely what he meant by these deficiencies. In the remainder of the hadîth, some women asked him: “O Messenger of Allah, what is this deficiency in our intelligence and religion?” He replied:
        “Isn’t it that a woman’s testimony as a witness is half of the testimony of man?” They said: “Yes.” He said: “This, then, is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that when she is in her menses, she leaves off prayers and fasting?” They said: “Yes.” He said: “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

        These are matters of Islamic Law. A woman is neither sinful nor blameworthy because of the prayers and fasts that she misses. She, in fact, receives blessings by obeying Allah and abstaining from those acts while she is menstruating. Her testimony as a witness is half that of men only in matters wherein she is generally less versed than men. In other matters wherein women have particular knowledge, like fosterage and virginity, the testimony of a woman is accepted but not that of a man.

        “The Prophet, peace be and blessings upon him, explained that women’s mental deficiency is reflected in their weak memory (A woman is overloaded by being a mother or a babysitter or pregnant. All these carriers are around the clock, because of what she is, she is always likely to forget more than a man who is devoted to one career only) , the fact that makes Shari`ah stipulate that a woman’s testimony must be corroborated by another
        woman. Thus, this injunction does not imply woman’s inferiority to man; rather it has more to do with justice than to gender.

        I know you will not 100% understand from these paras.Thats why I had given you that LINK where is full detailed answers by scholars on this topic.

        Women true status in Islam-

        1-“The women have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable.” [Qur’an 2:228]

        2-The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. (Ibn-Hanbal, No. 7396)

        3-A famous saying of The Prophet is “Paradise is at the feet of mothers.” (In Al’Nisa’I, Ibn Majah, Ahmad).
        “It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them.”

        4-He also emphasized preferential treatment towards the female sex and said “When you bring anything for your children for distribution, begin with the girls first because the girls love their parents more than the boys.”

        5-The Holy Prophet is reported to have said : “A woman is the queen of her house.”
        The Holy Quran describes the position of the wife in a beautiful verse, “He created for you mates from among yourselves that you might find
        solace in them and he ordained between you love and mercy,” [Qur’an 30:21]

        6-In his famous Address at the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet again laid stress on the good treatment on womenfolk. He said: “O my people, you have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you ….
        they are Allah’s trust in your hand. See that you treat them with all kindness.”

        7-Whosoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does not favor his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise. (Ibn Hanbal, No. 1957).
        Whosoever supports two daughters till they mature, he and I will come in the day of judgment as this (and he pointed with his two fingers held together).

        8-Ibn Abbas reported that a girl came to the Messenger of God, Muhammad (P.), and she reported that her father had forced her to marry without her consent. The Messenger of God gave her the choice . . . (between accepting the marriage or invalidating it). (Ibn Hanbal No. 2469). In another version, the girl said: “Actually I accept this marriage but I wanted to let women know that parents have no right (to force a husband on them)” (Ibn Maja, No. 1873).

        9-A man came to Prophet Muhammad (P) asking:

        O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company? The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man said then who else: The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man asked, Then who else? Only then did the Prophet (P) say, Your father. (Al-Bukhari and Muslim).

        10-It is reported that once a disciple came to the Prophet and said “O Prophet Of Allah, on a hot day in the desert of Arabia, in the sunny noon when the stones and sands were burning like fire, my mother and I were
        travelling by foot without any shoes. I carried my mother on my shoulders so that she may not suffer the pain of walking bare-footed on the hot sands and stones. Could I pay the reward of the pains she had to bear in bringing
        me up?” The Prophet replied:”No, not even a fraction of the pain she suffered at the time you were born.”

        In expressing the dignity of the mother, the Holy Prophet said: “One who looks at the face of his mother with sentiments of reverence and love once, is rewarded as if he had performed the Pilgrimage.” The people asked
        him, what if he looked twice, to which he replied: “It is as if he had performed two Pilgrimages, and thrice, as if he had performed three Pilgrimages and so on.

        -Your Lord has commanded that you shall worship none but Him and goodness to your parents. If either or both of them reach old age in your life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion and say: O my Lord bestow on them compassion even as they cherished me in my childhood.[Qur’an 17 23-24]

        Discussion on Vedas-

        1-How can you know you that you was Man or Cat or Rat or Goat in previous birth.Let consider you were Cat so how you have studied Eeshwar in previous birth.Can Cat commit sin.

        Please give me your view of Reincarnation.
        I think Re-Incarnation means that –

        If a person has done some mistakes or sins in his previous birth then in next life either he will be born with some birth defects,or poor or will have short life or as animal etc.Or vice-verca if he does good deeds.

        Now my question-
        When will a person improve? A person will improve only when he knows very well what he did mistake earlier, so next time he will strive to rectify his mistakes. But, in actual no person remembers what mistake he did in his
        earlier life.
        May be this is the same reason of Hitler killing 6 million Jews. Hitler (with swastika flags) might have thought he could improve himself in the next life and do genocide on Jews in the present life.

        Also,We know that their are two types of peoples in this world Good and Bad.So,a Bad man if he believes in rebirths then he will think that let me wrong and illegal thing in this birth and when I will be born again then I will
        improve myself.

        So,this concept of Re-Incarnation will increase crime rate in world.

        If one will not worship Eeshwar and do bad deeds then how he will be punished.If he will not be pubished then why one should worship Eeshwar and do good deeds.

        Also do you believe in Avtaar system i.e. 10 avtaars or incarnation of Vishnu

        How can you prove that Vedas were revealed at the beginning of human life.Zoroastrians claims that their religion is oldest so their scriptures were first revealed according to them.

        The earliest part of Zoroaster’s teachings is known Gathas. We find a mention of Gathas in Vedas as well.(Artharva Veda, XV: 6-12.) But there is no mention of the Vedas and other Hindu books in Zoroastrian scriptures. This shows that Gathas are of an earlier date than Vedas.

        2-3- I am waiting for your correct translation in English on Incest verses in Vedas.

        You said”I believe that Eeshvar, Aatma (soul), and Prakriti (matter) are beginningless and endless entities”

        First please give a verse from Vedas to support your believe.

        Also,Whose Aatma(soul) is beginningless.God or Creation(e.g. Human,animals etc).

        Regarding early creation in Vedas

        Yajur Veda 31:9-14-
        They balmed as victim on the grass Purusha born in earliesttime.With him the Deities and all Sâdhyas and Rishis sacrificed.10When they divided Purusha how many portions did they make?What was his mouth? what
        were his arms? what are thr names of thighs and feet?11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Râjanya made.His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra wasproduced.12 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eyethe Sun had birth;Vâyu and Prâna from his ear, and from his mouth was Agniborn.13 Forth from his navel came mid-air; the sky was fashioned from his head;Earth from his feet,
        and from his ear the Quarters. Thus they formed the worlds.14 When Gods performed the sacrifice with Purusha as offeringSpring was the butter, Autumn the oblation, Summer was the wood.

        I know this is wrong translation accoding to you.So,please provide correct translation.So I can understand from these verses about the creation in early days according to Vedas.

        4-Regrading Hadith-I think that you know the difference between Engagement and Marriage.That was the case with Ayesha(ra) marriage with Prophet(pbuh).She was engaged to Prophet(pbuh) at 6 and Married(goes into his household) at age of 9.

        Regarding marriage at 9-

        Now you object that how could the Prophet marry Aisha at such a young age. One must first understand that 1400 years ago was very different than now, times have changed and so have humans. 1400 years ago it was something very common to marry young girls, in fact they were not considered young girls, rather they were considered young women back then. It is a historic fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were being married in Europe, Asia, and Africa, in fact even in the United States girls at the age of 10 were also being married just more than a century ago.
        Yet with these facts no historian claims that all these people were sick perverts, historians would call anyone who made such a claim to be arrogant and very stupid who has no grasp or understanding of history.

        Furthermore as to the prophets Marriage with Aisha, something people will notice is that the completion of the marriage was done when Aisha was 9 years old, not when she was 6, and there is a reason for that. The reason
        why this happened is because Aisha had been through puberty by the age of 9, and in Islam a female who under-goes puberty is considered a lady and is fit for marriage.Now you may say how does a girl go through puberty at the age of 9? :

        When does puberty start? Although puberty usually starts between ages 8 to 13 in girls, it may start earlier or later. Everyone’s body changes at a different time.

        So note, a period for a girl occurs from the age of 8 to 14, though this is not always the case as a girl can also start her period by 14 or maybe 15. However so for Aisha it is most likely her puberty started at 8, and continued
        till she was 9, and once she was going through puberty and her menses, this made her a lady and not a girl anymore since she was fit for a baby therefore she is no child anymore.

        I have told you what I think .If you want answer in detail please see below link-
        http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/prophet_marriage_with_aisha.htm

        For Rehana,I had not readed Ibn Ishak’s Seerat Rasool Allah.So if you has some Sahih-Hadiths supporting your claim then please show them to me.Anyway you can ask yourl question abot this topic even if you has no
        Sahih-Hadith and I will try to answer.

        5-Regarding Izar-

        Why would the Prophet (peace be upon him) tell Aisha to put on an izar?
        If the Prophet (peace be upon him) was willing to go the extra mile and disobey Allah’s commands then he could have just proceeded on to have sex instead of just fondling. The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) only fondled during the menstrual cycle of his wife makes it pretty obvious that he understood what the Qur’an’s actual limitations were.

        Regarding Maria,please tell what is you exact question.

        Now I will try to prove that Quran is God’s word after that your all question will be automatically answered-

        5 points at once

        1-Qrigin of Universe

        BIG BANG-According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided
        to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc.

        The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

        “Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder” [Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

        “Have not the people, who have disbelieved (the Message), ever considered this: the heavens and the earth were at first one mass; then We parted them:[Quran 21:30}

        The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

        Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists. He is a Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. Professor Alfred said:

        “Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a Bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case.”

        He also said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here.”

        Who could have mentioned this fact in Quran 1400 years ago.Please Vajra tell me.

        2-INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES

        Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas.

        The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

        “Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke:He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.’They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.” [Al-Qur’an 41:11]

        Then He turned to the heaven while it was all smoke. He said to the heaven and the earth: “Come (into being), willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “Here we come (into being) in willing obeisance.” [Quran 41:11]

        Two things need to be explained here: First, by “heaven” is meant the whole universe, as becomes obvious from the following sentences. In other words, “turning to the heaven” means that Allah turned to the creation of the
        universe. Second, by “smoke” is implied the initial and primary stage of matter, in which it lay diffused in space in a shapeless, dust like condition before the formation of the universe. Scientists of the modern age describe
        the same thing as nebulae, and the same also is their view about the beginning of the universe: that is, before creation the matter of which the universe was built lay diffused in smoke-like nebulous form.

        Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him). What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

        3-Expanding Universe

        In 1925, American astronomer Edwin Hubble, provided observational evidence that all galaxies are moving away from one another, which implies that the universe is expanding. The expansion of the universe is now an
        established scientific fact.

        This is what the Qur’an says regarding the nature of the universe:

        “With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: For it is We Who create the vastness of Space.” [Al-Qur’an 51:47]

        The Arabic word musioon is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe.

        The word must’ (pl. musi’un) used in this verse t may mean the one who possesses power and means, and also the one who can extend and expand something. According to the first meaning, the verse would mean: “We have built this heaven by Our own might and not with somebody else’s help, and its erection was in no way beyond Us. Then how can you ever conceive that We shall not be able to recreate it ?” According to the second meaning, it would mean: “This huge universe that We have created, is not a finished work, but We are expanding it continuously, and new and ever new manifestations of Our creation are appearing in it every moment. How do you then think that such a marvelous Creator would not be able to repeat His creation.

        One of the greatest astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in his book, ‘A Brief History of Time’, says,“The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century.”

        The Qur’an mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope!

        4-SHAPE OF THE EARTH

        In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he
        sailed around it in 1597.

        But now we know that the earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical, i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

        “And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.” [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

        The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.

        Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

        5-THE SUN ROTATES

        For a long time Scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it.

        In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day.

        After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth.

        But now we know that Sun also rotates about its own axis.

        Consider the following Qur’anic verse:

        “It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: At! (the cetestiat bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” [Al-Qur’an 21:33]

        The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon. This word is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming.

        Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space..

        “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, norcan the Night outstrip the Day: (Each Oust) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Al-Qur’an 36:40]

        This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.

        The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.

        One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

        So I ask you now how could these facts be present in Quran 1400 years ago.Please answer

        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Hi Shri Abdulla,

        As usual, no one can defeat the soldier of ALLAH, because Allah seems to be more skillful than other GODs. [ La ILALA IL LILLAH ].

        Try to understand that there are nothing but chemical,physical and behavioral existence of matter. We humans are specialized collection of matter.

        1) Can you explain as to how far HELL and Heaven are from Earth ?
        2) Can you explain if Mr Mohammad travelled to heaven then did he follow the speed of light and how much time he took to reach over there.
        3) If ALLAH created earth and entire mankind then why did he do ungodly thing by asking to kill jews ?[ Created by Allah : Is it ungodly creation].
        4) What are the color of blood and Chromosomal characteristic of Jews, Christians and Hindus as per Allah?

        If they are different, then all Muslims should write to Scientific Organizations to declare Muslims as a separate Species created by ALLAH.

        5) Can you prove that you are true Muslim from Arabian peninsula ?Pathans were themselves were not muslims and were converted.
        6) Since majority of non-muslims do not have faith in Islam, so any muslim killing Kaffirs/Infidels or any matter of Kufr, can be considered as rightful person ?

        As per Quran and Hadith, these people should be titled GAZI.

        Regards,

        Satyendra

      • Namaste Satyendra Ji
        I request you not to comment in this thread as we have one on one discussion going on here. Please start a new thread by going at the bottom of the page. Hope you wont mind.

        Thanks

      • Namaste Brother Abdullah
        Hope everything is fine

        I will give my comments on your points one by one

        1. No relation with what I asked.

        2. You say heaven and hell are not eternal but Quran says otherwise!

        Quran [9:22]- “They will dwell therein FOREVER…..”. (There are many more verses in Quran for the same)

        You were right logically when you wrote- “The things which can be eternal should not has its Beginning.” but you were unfortunately wrong “Quranically” because Quran and Logic are opposite to each other.

        3. Again no relation what I asked. Again asking, is it that Allah just knows or it is much more than that? Bombing, killing, loot, rape etc which are happening around, are these happening against Allah’s will or as per His will?

        4. No reply to my questions!

        For you, 1-4 are complete because Islam has no answer to these questions. For us, philosophy starts with these questions, on which Quran finds itself helpless. Please remember what you pledged at the starting of the debate Brother. We agreed that we will answer logically and not like Allah knows the best or Allah does whatever He wills.

        5. Now come your self contradictory explanations of Hadith. In one Hadith, it is claimed that Muhammad would continue his prayers even if Aisha was there in front of us. Then comes the Hadith that women annul prayers of men. Now tell me, why such contradiction in your beliefs? Let me show you the number of contradictions in your beliefs

        i) If the prayers of men get annulled by passing of woman (as per Hadith) then Muhammad acted against it by praying in front of Aisha!

        ii) If prayers dont get annulled by passing woman then this Hadith is wrong!

        iii) If prayers get invalid by passing woman, your explanation of Aisha was wrong

        iv) If prayers dont get affected by passing woman, your explanation of distraction of mind was wrong

        v) Its not the matter of distraction at all! Didn’t you notice Muhammad’s reply when he was asked, why black dog, he said- “because black dog is evil”. So this settles the debate that dog, ass, women etc are culprits and unwanted during the prayers

        vi) If according to you, both men and women distract each other, can you show me the Hadith which explicitly says that woman’s prayer will also cut off if a dog or ass or man passes in front of her? If no, I find it an offense to whole motherhood.

        You tried tooth and nail to contradict yourself in contradicting with your Prophet on deficiency of women in religion and their half intelligence, but you could not. I can ask hundreds of questions on it but am restricting myself to few

        i) Dont men have capacity to attract women, dont they do? Of course yes. So it is foolish to blame women all the time. And thats great style of acknowledging one’s capabilities by calling her deficient! Can you call your mother deficient?

        ii) I challenge you to give me the verse of Quran which states that in some matters, women have higher testimonial weight than men

        iii) Why did Allah think that men are intelligent than women? We see otherwise in many cases. Half intelligence is true for the places where women are treated as animals and confined to their houses but not for women who are educated. So Islam and its laws were applicable to the people of Jahalat and not for the scientific era of 21st century. You believe that women cant rule, women cant do business etc but we saw in the past that a woman lead a nation and defeated the nation of Mujahideen, lead by man in 1971 and changed the map of the world! Mother Khadija was a successful in fact one of the most renowned business owner of Arab. So Allah and Muhammad have been proven wrong from the time of Muhammad himself!

        And I wont comment on your explanation of deficiency and half intelligence etc. They are self defeating themselves.

        Now comes true status of women in Islam

        1- You gave- ”The women have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable.” [Qur’an 2:228]

        I wonder our Muslim friends shout every time for context when someone shows them any immorality in Quran but themselves lie and quote incomplete verses to deceive others, lets see what is 2:228 actually

        “Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree [of advantage] over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

        I would like you to focus on “Divorced women shall wait”, “their husbands have the better right to take them back”, “according to what is equitable”, “men have a degree [of advantage] over them”

        Do i need to comment on this equality (?)? In short, woman is at mercy of her husband if he wants to take her back or not, this equitable is well defined in your scriptures that a woman can be beaten, be kept slave no matter even if she is married, polygamy, no right of divorce etc. And above all MEN HAVE A DEGREE OVER THEM settles the rest!

        2 to 10 dont carry any weight for me as they are not from either Quran or Sahih Hadith and we decided to debate on these two only. Just like you wont accept anything other than these two, I too want proofs from Quran and Sahih Hadith only.

        As far as respect for parents is concerned, I can give you hundred times more proofs from Vedas.

        Discussion on Vedas

        1. Please go through the relevant portion of http://agniveer.com/2790/salvation/ and get the basics of rebirth as well as Law of Karma which you are completely unaware of. All your presumptions about rebirth are wrong and thus any of your question does not merit any response. Once you read the article above, we can discuss it.

        2-3. Mantra which proves that matter and souls are imperishable

        “O Men, that All-pervading Being alone is the Lord of the IMPERISHABLE prakriti – the material cause of the world – and of the soul and is yet distinct from both. He is the Creator of universe – the past, present and the future.” YAJUR VEDA 21: 2

        also

        “Whose name should we hold sacred; Who is that All-glorious, Resplendent Being Who is imperishable among all the imperishable Prakriti and souls; Who having made us enjoy the bliss of emancipation again invests us with bodies and thereby gives us the pleasure of seeing our parents? It is the All-glorious, Eternal, Immortal, All-pervading, Supreme Being Whose name we should hold sacred. He, it is, Who helps us to enjoy the bliss of Emancipation and then bring us back into this world, clothes us with bodies, and thereby gives us the pleasure of seeing our parents. The same Divine Spirit it is Who regulates the period of Emancipation and lords over all.” RIG VEDA 1:24, 2.

        Hope you got it now. I recommend you to go through 7 articles in the series here http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/ and understand first what Vedas say about God, soul and matter and also our purpose etc. You need to do it if you want to discuss Vedic view here. You have not read Vedas, so its necessary for you to know the basics first. Please let me know when you are done with these 7. We will discuss Vedas then.

        Regarding age of Aisha in Muhammad’s house, let me give you a Hadith from Sahih Bukhari 8.151

        Narrated `Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet,
        and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, NOT YET REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY) (Fath−ul−Bari page 143, Vol.13)”

        So you see Brother Sahih Hadith tells opposite to what you told me. Aisha was a little girl who used to play with dolls in front of Muhammad. I think now you have got it. Anyway, cant give you a bigger proof than this!

        Regarding Rehana, you must know that its not necessary to have Sahih Hadith for every incident given in Seerats. Hadith provide you the context of verses and sayings of Muhammad and Seerat gives his life story. So try and get the answer for Rehanaa’s rape in the night of Bani Qureza massacre.

        Rather you didn’t notice that some of the Muslim scholars like Ghulam Jelani Barq have given the Hadith that Muhammad used to have intercourse with Aisha even in her menses and that is why he has highlighted the use of Izar for the same. Anyway, thats the internal matter of Mullahs, i am not an authority over interpretations of Hadith. But the fact remains that why one needs Izar below the waist if the purpose was just to fondle and nothing more than that? Were women of Arab used to remain naked in menses that Muhammad used to give order to Aisha to put the cloth below her waist before fondling? I again request not to stretch this conversation longer by giving foolish arguments. Please accept that it was not an act which can suit any prophet.

        Science in Quran

        Please do me a favor and answer only those questions which i am asking. Please dont create questions out of yourself and start giving their answers. I repeat, I need the scientific explanations of

        1. Muhammad broke the moon
        2. Sea was separated when Muhammad wanted to cross it
        3. Flying donkey of Muhammad in Shab e Meraz
        4. Jesus without father
        5. Moses talking to stones
        6. Beating of stones and their weeping!

        as soon as you give the SCIENTIFIC explanations to these 5, i will again ask for next 5. So please go ahead with these questions. Right now I dont want to go into the complications of the verses you gave as they are twisted to suit science and I will have to give you some Arabic lessons before I refute those. So till then wait and try to find answers to what has been asked, i will be very thankful to you.

        best regards

      • Dear Vajra

        Hope you are fine.

        Sorry for late reply.I was not at home.

        For 1-4 I had given my own personal answers from my knowledge to you in details but you did not want to accept them.You only want to play with words.

        I have started topic “Proving Quran God’s Word” because if I will be able to prove that to you then your these question will automatically answered.So,first try to prove that topic wrong to me.After that it will be easy to discuss these four questions.Because you did not want to accpet my answers at any case beside however logicall and detailed they are.You just kept posting counter questions one after another.

        Definition of Eternal-The things which can be eternal should not has its Beginning nor his End.It should satisfy both criteria.

        But Quranic Heaven and Hell HAS their BEGINNING, so how can they be eternal.It is stated many times in Qura that Allah created the Heaven.SO HOW THEY CAN BE ETERNAL?.

        Heaven and Hell may abide forever but they are not eternal because THEY HAVE THEIR BEGINNING,

        Allah knows what will happen.But Humans are responsible for all the crimes in this world not Allah.Because Humans are given free will by Allah to test them whether they will do good deeds or bad deeds in this life.

        5-Regarding Hadith on Women

        Brother I did not contradict mysellf but I instead I give one answer from two prospective so you can understand me easily.

        In hadith it is mentioned that PASSING of woman in front of praying man will annul prayer.It does not says that mere presence of women annuls prayer.Also,one will be disattracted less by his own wife then any other women(non-mahram).

        Different persons have differnt levels at which they could be disattracted.A common man like me etc can be disattracted vey easily but a Prophet of God cannot be disattracted by mere presence of his OWN wife. Every person has it’s own nature and weakness, some can easily get distracted (even by other muslim-men) during prayer while others not, thats why the general rule is that nobody should pass by a praying person, women
        AND MEN.While women is praying then MEN should also not pass by her.

        Yes you are right this is 21st century, now women’s body is exploited by giving mere excuse of equality of sexes.Wome has to do both earn money and keep household.90% Girls losses their virgintiy before even passing collegde.Men wears full suits that covered whole body but for women they sould wear clothes which show 75% of their flesh.Girls are killed even before they take their first breath in their word(specially in our India).

        EQUALITY OF SEXES IS JUST A WAY FOR PERVERTS TO EXPLOIT WOMEN’S BODY.

        Is their any solution you have to solve all these and many more problems.

        Who says to you that Women cannot Lead,cannot get education and cannot do business. Yes,women can do business but only in offices where whole staff is of females.
        Had you not heared the stories of how women in exploited in offices by their bosses.

        Getting education is compulsory for every Muslim male or female.

        Men and Women in Islam are EQUAL but not IDENTICAL both have their different reposibility.

        True status of women in Islam-

        1-Regarding Degree of Advantage of Men-

        Correct translation of the verse: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise” (2:228).

        In other words, Allah :

        (1) gave men and women similar rights; then

        (2) He gave the men a greater degree of responsibility over the women than that of women over men. It follows that the rights owned to the wife are unnegotiable, whereas the husband has to give up certain rights. This is not a feminist reading but the actual explanation of Ibn `Abbas (companion of the prophet) according to al-Tabari in his Tafsir, and the latter preferred it over all other commentaries of that verse (Al-Tabari said the best explanation is that of Ibn `Abbas).

        Al-Tabari in his Tafsir narrated from Ibn `Abbas: “The daraja(or degree in english) mentioned by Allah Most High here is the forfeiting, on the man’s part, of some his wife’s obligations towards him and his indulgence towards her, while he is fully obligated to fulfill all his obligations towards her, because the verse came right after { And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness} . Hence Ibn `Abbas said: ‘I would not like to obtain all (astanzif) of my right from her because Allah Most High said { and men are a degree above them} .'”

        (Source: fatwa by Sheikh G.F. Haddad on website LIVINGISLAM)

        I can give you link for more details but as I can provide only 2 hyperlinks in my post which I will do below I cannot give link here.This is problem of debating in forums thats why I prefers debate through E-Mails.

        Regarding Divorced women shall wait-
        A woman who was divorced by her husband has to wait (at least) three monthly periods before they can marry again. The main objective appears to be that there should be no doubts as to the identity of the father if the woman gives birth to a child later on. Within this period it should become obvious whether or not a woman is pregnant. If she turns out to be pregnant, then her waiting period lasts until the birth of the child, otherwise she is free to remarry after the three months are over.

        Well I think in Hinduism it is not good for Divorced women to remarry.

        Regarding-“Their husbands have the better right to take them back”-
        If Husband and wife in between the three months preiod settles their personal dispute and they BOTH want to continue their marriage then they can do so.

        Is divorced allowed in Vedas? Where.

        Regarding Women’s Right of Divorce-
        Who tell you that women has no right to divorce in Islam-

        Do you know anything about Khula.

        Khula is the right of a woman in Islam to divorce or separate from her husband. After divorce, the husband is responsible for the education and maintenance of the children. The children live with the mother for seven years. After seven years, the children have the right to live with the father or the mother, as they decide.

        Did in Vedas Women has right to seek divorce?

        Quotes from Quran a about Women-

        2-“Believers! It is not lawful for you to become heirs to women against their will. It is not lawful that you should put constraint upon them that you may take away anything of what you have given them; (you may not put constraint
        upon them) unless they are guilty of brazenly immoral conduct. Live with your wives in a good manner. If you dislike them in any manner, it may be that you dislike something in which Allah has placed much good for you”.(Quran 4:19)

        3- (3:195) “Their Lord answered the Prayer thus: “I will not suffer the work of any of you, whether male or female, to go to waste; each of you is from the other. Those who emigrated and were driven out from their homesteads
        and were persecuted in My cause, and who fought and were slain, indeed I shall wipe out their evil deeds from them and shall certainly admit them to the gardens beneath which rivers flow.” This is their reward with their Lord; and with Allah lies the best reward”.

        -All humans are equal in the sight of Allah. Allah does not have separate criteria for judging the male and the female, the master and the slave, the high and the low.

        4-(2:231) “And when you have divorced your wives and they are about to complete their prescribed term, then either retain them gracefully or release them generously. It is transgression to retain them merely for harassment;
        and whoever’ does that indeed wrongs his own self. Do not play with Allah’s Commandments, and remember that Allah has blessed you with a great favour. He admonishes you to show due respect to the Book and the
        Wisdom He has sent to you. Fear Allah and know that He is fully aware of everything”.

        -It is absolutely improper that a person should revoke the divorce he pronounced on his wife before the lapse of the period of waiting merely in order to use this revocation as a pretext to harass and torment her . God
        commands that if a person revokes the divorce this decision should be prompted by a sincere desire to live together amicably. Should that intention be lacking, it is better to part company in a graceful manner

        5-(4:128) If a woman fears either ill-treatment or aversion from her husband it is not wrong for the husband and wife to bring about reconciliation among themselves (by compromising on their rights), for settlement is better. Man’s soul is always prone to selfishness, but if you do good and are God-fearing, then surely Allah is aware of the things you do.

        Discussion on Vedas-

        1-May I remind you that this Debate is between Abdullah and Vajra.Not between Abdullah and Vajra+Agniveer’s Articles.

        So I want answers from you.If you want you can give the essence of Agniveer’s article in para or two here but I want answers and reasons from you not from Agniveer.

        Let us look at My UNANSWERED points in this section-

        1-Prove to me Scientifically that Vedas are word of God with English translation supported by suitable link.(Like I am doing for Quran)

        2- Still no English tranalation by you on the verses about Scientific Erorrs in Vedas
        3-Still no English transalation of verses dealing with Incest in Vedas with proper link to support your transaltion.

        4-How can you prove that Vedas were revealed at the beginning of human life.Zoroastrians claims that their religion is oldest so their scriptures were first revealed according to them.
        The earliest part of Zoroaster’s teachings is known Gathas. We find a mention of Gathas in Vedas as well.(Artharva Veda, XV: 6-12.) But there is no mention of the Vedas and other Hindu books in Zoroastrian scriptures. This shows that Gathas are of an earlier date than Vedas

        5-.How can you know you that you was Man or Cat or Rat or Goat in previous birth.Let consider you were Cat so how you have studied Eeshwar in previous birth.Can Cat commit sin.
        6-Please give me YOUR view of Reincarnation.
        7-In context with Re-Incarnation-When will a person improve? A person will improve only when he knows very well what he did mistake earlier, so next time he will strive to rectify his mistakes. But, in actual no person remembers what mistake he did in his earlier life.
        May be this is the same reason of Hitler killing 6 million Jews. Hitler (with swastika flags) might have thought he could improve himself in the next life and do genocide on Jews in the present life.

        8-If one will not worship Eeshwar and do bad deeds then how he will be punished.If he will not be pubished then why one should worship Eeshwar and do good deeds.Considering both good and bad peoples are in this world.

        9-Do you believe in Avtaar system i.e. 10 avtaars or incarnation of Vishnu.Please explain briefly.
        10-Whose Aatma(soul) is beginningless.God or Creation(e.g. Human,animals etc).

        11-Please give correct translation of and also Explain- Yajur Veda 31:9-14 .
        Yajur Veda 31:9-14-
        They balmed as victim on the grass Purusha born in earliesttime.With him the Deities and all Sâdhyas and Rishis sacrificed.10When they divided Purusha how many portions did they make?What was his mouth? what
        were his arms? what are thr names of thighs and feet?11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Râjanya made.His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra wasproduced.12 The Moon was
        gendered from his mind, and from his eyethe Sun had birth;Vâyu and Prâna from his ear, and from his mouth was Agniborn.13 Forth from his navel came mid-air; the sky was fashioned from his head;Earth from his feet,
        and from his ear the Quarters. Thus they formed the worlds.14 When Gods performed the sacrifice with Purusha as offeringSpring was the butter, Autumn the oblation, Summer was the wood.

        I know this is wrong translation accoding to you.So,please provide correct translation.So I can understand from these verses about the creation in early days according to Vedas.

        You are not answering my question yourself and just telling me to read Agniveer’s artcles.But you want me to answer your all questions in detail and in manner which suits you.I can also give you various links which have
        detailed answers of your every question.

        I want answer from Great Scholar Vajra not from the man behind the scenes Agniveer.

        Regarding age of Aisha-
        For Hadith you quoted.

        This hadith is of the time between the Engagement and Marriage i.e. between 6 and 9 years of age.

        But if you are insisting that this Hadith is of after 9 years of age then even teenaged girls nowdays also play with dolls or decorate their bedrooms with them. Young men play with and collect action figures (when that’s cool, but today it’s computer games).Even the teenage girls who had their periods play with dolls or decorate theri room with dolls.

        As you have to keep in mind that Puberty in most girls start at age of 10 years still today.And Girl is considered mature after her first period in those days.

        Also please answer my these question-
        1-Why did Muhammad(pbuh) waited for three years i.e. from 6 to 9 before actual marriage if he was pedophile.

        Only logical answer is that they(Prophet(pbuh) and Ayesha’s parents) were waiting for Ayesha(ra) to reach puberty and for her first period.

        2-If Muhammad(pbuh) was the evil pervert that anti-Islamic lobby has him cracked up to be, he simply wouldn’t have married Aisha. Paedophiles don’t marry their victims, they just rape or abuse them and leave them to deal
        with the mental scars.

        PROVING QURAN IS GOD’S WORD-

        Wow what an excuse to run away from the truth.Before your this post I honestly considered you a Knowledgable and Open-minded person.But now your that status has gone for me.

        For YOUR 1-6 Questions-

        I have told you earlier that Science and Miracles dont go hand in hand so how it is possible for anybody to give scientific explation of Miracles.It is illogical to ask for scientific explaination of Miracles.

        Evidence of breaking of moon- I had provided you with some images in my earlier posts to support this.So check it.

        Now proofs I had given to you-

        Your excuse in your own words “Right now I dont want to go into the complications of the verses you gave as they are twisted to suit science”.

        So you think that Muslim scholars have translated these vesres incorrectly.How about if I give you the transalation of NON-MUSLIMS on these.

        Note-E.H.Palmer and J.M.Rodwell translation is taken from wwwDOTsacred-textsDOTcom

        Arberry’s translation is available on-http://www.mlivo.com/translations/Arberry.htm

        1-Qrigin of Universe

        BIG BANG

        The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

        “Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder” [Al Qu’ran 21:30 by Yusuf Ali]

        “Have not the unbelievers then beheld that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sewn up, and then We unstitched them”[Quran 21:30 transalated by A.J.Arberry in 1955]

        “Do not those who misbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were both solid, and we burst them asunder”:
        [Quran 21:30 translated by E.H.Palmer-The Qur’ân (Sacred Books of the East volume 9), Palmer edition {1880}]

        “Do not the infidels see that the heavens and the earth were both a solid mass, and that we clave them asunder”[Quran 21:30 translated by J.M.Rodwell edition (1876)]

        The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

        Lets see what scientist has to say on this verse-

        Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists. He is a Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. Professor Alfred said:

        “Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a Bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe,
        because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case.”

        He also said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here.”

        Who could have mentioned this fact in Quran 1400 years ago.Please Vajra tell me.

        2-INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES

        Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas.The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

        “Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke:He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.’They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.” [Al-Qur’an 41:11 by Yusuf Ali]

        “Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, “Come willingly, or unwillingly!” They said, “We come willingly.”[Quran 41:11 translated by Arberry]

        “Then He made for the heaven and it was but smoke, and He said to it and to the earth, ‘Come, ye two, whether ye will or no!’ They said, ‘We come willingly!”[Quran 41:11 translated by E.H. Palmer in 1880]

        “Then He applied himself to the Heaven, which then was but smoke: and to it and to the Earth He said, “Come ye, whether in obedience or against your will?” and they both said, “We come obedient.”[Quran 41:11 tranalated by Rodwell]

        Details on this verse is in my previous post.

        Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him). What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

        3-Expanding Universe

        This is what the Qur’an says regarding the nature of the universe:

        “With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: For it is We Who create the vastness of Space.” [Al-Qur’an 51:47 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “And heaven — We built it with might, and We extend it wide”[Quran 51:47 translated by Arberry]

        “And the heaven–we have built it with might, and, verily, we do surely give it ample space!”[Quran 51:57 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “And the Heaven–with our hands have we built it up, and given it its expanse”[Quran 51:47 by Rodwell]

        The Arabic word used here musioon is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe.
        More details on this verse is in my prevoius post

        One of the greatest astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, in his book, ‘A Brief History of Time’, says,“The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the 20th century.”

        The Qur’an mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope!

        4-SHAPE OF THE EARTH

        The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

        “And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse).”[Quran 79:30 by Yusuf Ali]

        “And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.” [Al-Qur’an 79:30 transalted by Rashad Khalifa]

        “and the earth — after that He spread it out.”[Quran 79:30 translated by Arberry]

        “And afterwards stretched forth the earth”[79:30 translated by Rodwell]

        The Arabic word used here for egg here is dahaahaa which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth.Dahaahaa also means expanse.So both translaitn is correct.

        Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

        5-THE SUN ROTATES

        Consider the following Qur’anic verse:

        “It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: At! (the cetestiat bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” [Al-Qur’an 21:33]

        “It is He who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon, each swimming in a sky.”[Quran 21:33 translated by A.J.Arberry]

        “And He it is who hath created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each moving swiftly in its sphere”[21:33 by Rodwell]

        The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon. This word is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming.Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space.

        “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, norcan the Night outstrip the Day: (Each Oust) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Al-Qur’an 36:40 by Yusuf Ali]

        “It behoves not the sun to overtake the moon, neither does the night outstrip the day, each swimming in a sky.”[Quran 36:40 by Arberry]

        “To the Sun it is not given to overtake the Moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day; but each in its own sphere doth journey on”[36:40 by Rodwell]

        This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.
        The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.

        One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

        YOU ONLY HAS TO TELL ME THAT WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THESE KNOWLEDGE IN QORAN 1400 YEARS AGO.

        5 more proofs –

        6-MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT

        It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago in the following verse:

        “Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’an 25:61 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “Blessed be He who has set in heaven constellations, and has set among them a lamp, and an illuminating moon.”[Quran 25:61 translated by Arberry]

        “Blessed be He who placed in the heavens zodiacal signs, and placed therein the lamp and an illuminating moon”[Quran 25:61 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “Blessed be He who hath placed in the Heaven the sign of the Zodiac! 19 who hath placed in it the Lamp of the Sun, and the light-giving Moon!”[Quran 25:61 translated by J.M.Rodwell]

        The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj,
        wahhaajor diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

        The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

        “It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty).” [Al-Qur’an 10:5 transalted by Yusuf Ali]

        “It is He who made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light”[Quran 10:5 transalted by A.J.Arberry]

        ” He it is who made the sun for a brightness, and the moon for a light”[Quran 10:5 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “It is He who hath appointed the sun for brightness, and the moon for a light'[Quran 10:5 translated by Rodwell]

        Also,

        “And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a(Glorious) Lamp?” [Al-Qur’an 71:16 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp?”[Quran 71:6 translated by Arberry]

        “and has set the moon therein for a light, and set the sun for a lamp”[Quran 71:16 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “And He hath placed therein the moon as a light, and hath placed there the sun as a torch”[Quran 71:6 translated by Rodwell]

        The Glorious Qur’an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

        Who wrote this in Quran 1400 years ago?

        7-MOUNTAINS ARE LIKE TENT PEGS

        Geologists tell us that the radius of the Earth is about 6,035 km and the crust on which we live is very thin, ranging between 2 to 35 km. Since the crust is thin, it has a high possibility of shaking. Mountains act like stakes
        or tent pegs that hold the earth’s crust and give it stability. The Qur’an contains exactly such a description:

        “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, and the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Qur’an 78:6-7 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “Have We not made the earth as a cradle and the mountains as pegs”[Quran 78:6-7 translated by Arberry]

        “Have we not set the earth as a couch, and the mountains as stakes”[Quran 78:6-7 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “Have we not made the Earth a couch?And the mountains its tent stakes?”[Quran 78:6-7 translated by Rodwell]

        The word awtaad means stakes or pegs (like those used to anchor a tent); they are the deep foundations of geological folds.

        A book entitled ‘Earth’ is regarded as a basic reference textbook on geology in many universities around the world. One of the authors of this book is Dr. Frank Press, who was the President of the Academy of Sciences in the USA for 12 years and was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter. In this book, he illustrates the mountain in a wedge-shape and the mountain itself as a small part of the whole, whose root is deeply entrenched in the ground.1 According to Dr. Press, the mountains play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.

        The Qur’an clearly mentions the function of the mountains in preventing the earth from shaking:

        “And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them.” [Al-Qur’an 21:31 transalated by Yusuf Ali]

        “And We set in the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with them”[Quran 21:31 translated byr A.J.Arberry]

        “And we placed on the earth firm mountains lest it should move with them”.[Quran 21:31 translatd by E.H.Palmer]

        “And we set mountains on the earth lest it should move with them”.[Quran 21:31 translated by Rodwell]

        The Qur’anic descriptions are in perfect agreement with modern geological data.

        8-BARRIER BETWEEN SWEET AND SALT WATERS

        “He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together: Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress.” – [Al-Qur’an 55:19-20 by Yusuf Ali]

        “He let forth the two seas that meet together, between them a barrier they do not overpass”[Quran translated by Arberry]

        “He has let loose the two seas that meet together;between them is a barrier they cannot pass!”[Quran 55:19-20 by E.H.Palmer]

        “He hath let loose the two seas which meet each other:Yet between them is a barrier which they overpass not:”[55:19-20 translated by Rodwell]

        In the Arabic text the word barzakh means a barrier or a partition. This barrier, however, is not a physical partition. The Arabic word maraja literally means ‘they both meet and mix with each other’. Early commentators
        of the Qur’an were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in the places
        where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity and density.9 Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the two seas through which water from one sea passes to the other.

        But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters.

        This phenomenon is also mentioned in the following verse of the Qur’an:

        “And made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water?” [Al-Qur’an 27:61 translated bu Yusuf Ali]

        “and placed a partition between the two seas”[27:61 translated by Arberry]

        “and placed between the two seas a barrier”[Quran 27:61 transalted by E.H.Palmer]

        “and put a barrier between the two seas”[27:61 translated by Rodwell]

        This phenomenon occurs in several places, including the divider between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean at Gibralter. A white bar can also be clearly seen at Cape Point, Cape Peninsula, South Africa where the Atlantic Ocean meets the Indian Ocean.

        But when the Qur’an speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier.

        “It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: one palatable and sweet, and the other salty and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, and a partition that is forbidden to be passed. [Al-Qur’an 25:53 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “And it is He who let forth the two seas, this one Sweet, grateful to taste, and this salt, bitter to the tongue, and He set between them a barrier, and a ban forbidden.”[Quran 25:53 translated by Arberry]

        “He it is who has let loose the two seas, this one sweet and fresh, that one bitter and pungent, and has made between them a rigorous prohibition.”[Quran 25:53 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “And He it is who hath let loose the two seas, the one sweet, fresh; and the other salt, bitter; and hath put an interspace between them, and a barrier that cannot be passed.”[25:53 translated by Rodwell]

        Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from that found in places where two salt water seas meet. It has been discovered that what
        distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.” This partition (zone of separation) has a salinity different from both the fresh water
        and the salt water.

        This phenomenon occurs in several places, including Egypt, where the river Nile flows into the Mediterranean Sea.

        These scientific phenomena mentioned in the Qur’an was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay, a well-known marine scientist and Professor of Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A.

        9-DARKNESS IN DEPTHS OF OCEAN

        Prof. Durga Rao is a world renowned expert in the field of Marine Geology and was a professor at King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah. He was asked to comment on the following verse:

        “Or (the Unbelievers’ state) – is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds:depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his
        hand, he can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!” [Al-Qur’an 24:40 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        “or they are as shadows upon a sea obscure covered by a billow above which is a billow above which are clouds, shadows piled one upon another; when he puts forth his hand, wellnigh he cannot see it. And to whomsoever God assigns no light, no light has he.”[Quran 24:40 translated by A.J.Arberry]

        “Or like darkness on a deep sea, there covers it a wave above which is a wave, above which is a cloud,–darknesses one above the other,–when one puts out his hand he can scarcely see it; for he to whom God has given no light, he has no light.”[24:40 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “Or like the darkness on the deep sea when covered by billows riding upon billows, above which are clouds: darkness upon darkness. When a man reacheth forth his hand, he cannot nearly see it! He to whom God shall not give light, no light at all hath he!”[24:40 translated by Rodwell]

        Prof. Rao said that scientists have only now been able to confirm, with the help of modern equipment, that there is darkness in the depths of the ocean. Humans are unable to dive unaided underwater for more than 20 to 30 metres, and cannot survive in the deep oceanic regions at a depth of more than 200 metres. This verse does not refer to all seas because not every sea can be described as having accumulated darkness layered one over another. It refers especially to a deep sea or deep ocean, as the Qur’an says,
        “darkness in a vast deep ocean”.

        This layered darkness in a deep ocean is the result of two causes:

        1. A light ray is composed of seven colours seen in the rainbow. These seven colours are Violet, Indigo, Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange and Red (VIBGYOR). The light ray undergoes refraction when it hits water. The upper 10 to 15 metres of water absorb the red colour. Therefore, if a diver is 25 metres under water and gets wounded, he would not be able to see the red colour of his blood, because the red colour does not reach this depth.

        Similarly, orange rays are absorbed at 30 to 50 metres, yellow at 50 to 100 metres, green at 100 to 200 metres, and finally, blue beyond 200 metres and violet and indigo above 200 metres. Due to successive disappearance
        of colour, one layer after another, the ocean progressively becomes darker, i.e. darkness takes place in layers of light. Below a depth of 1000 meters there is complete darkness.12

        2. The sun’s rays are absorbed by clouds which in turn scatter light rays thus causing a layer of darkness under the clouds. This is the first layer of darkness. When light rays reach the surface of the ocean they are reflected by the wave surface giving it a shiny appearance. Therefore, it is the waves which reflect light and cause darkness. The unreflected light penetrates into the depths of the ocean. Thus, the ocean has two parts. The surface characterized by light and warmth and the depth characterized by darkness. The surface is further separated from the deep part of the ocean by waves.

        The internal waves cover the deep waters of seas and oceans because the deep waters have a higher density than the waters above them.

        The darkness begins below the internal waves. Even the fish in the depths of the ocean cannot see; their only source of light is from their own bodies.

        The Qur’an describes this aptly:

        “Darkness in a vast deep ocean overwhelmed with waves topped by waves”.

        In other words, above these waves there are more types of waves, i.e. those found on the surface of the ocean.

        The Qur’anic verse continues, “topped by (dark) clouds; depths of darkness, one above another.”

        These clouds as explained are barriers one over the other that further cause darkness by absorption of colours at different levels.

        Prof. Durga Rao concluded by saying, “1400 years ago a normal human being could not explain this phenomenon in so much detail. Thus the information must have come from a supernatural source”.

        10-ORIGIN OF LIFE FROM WATER

        “It is He Who has Created man from water:then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage:for thy Lord has power (over all things).” [Al-Qur’an 25:54]

        “And it is He who created of water a mortal, and made him kindred of blood and marriage; thy Lord is All-powerful.”[Quran 25:54 translated by Arberry]

        “And He it is who has created man from water and has made for him blood relationship and marriage relationship; for thy Lord is mighty.”[25:54 translated by E.H.Palmer]

        “And it is He who hath created man of water,and established between them the ties of kindred and affinity: and potent is thy Lord.”[25:54 translated by Rodwell]

        Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human being to guess that every living being was made from water?

        Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water?

        YOU ONLY HAS TO TELL ME WHO MENTIONED THESE SCIENTIFIC FACTES IN QURAN 1400 YEARS AGO.

        Now,it is foolish for you to say that these Non-Muslims translators also had twisted these verses to suit science.

        Note-Personally I dont know what was the purpose of the above mentioned Non-Muslims translators.I myself had not readed their full translation.I personally not favour Palmer and Rodwell FULL translation when taken as whole but Arberry’s translation is good and acceptable to me.

        I personally did not like to use Palmer and Rodwell transalations.

        I have given you the translation by these Non-Muslims ONLY to make you sure that MUSLISM SCHOLARS HAS TRANSLATED QURAN CORRECTLY

        Now it is your turn to answer me.You had two chioces either refute them or accept them.Oh third one is also open i.e. run away from the truth.

        Regarding Rehana-
        Their are many accounts of Rehana’s relationship with Prophet(pbuh)

        1-Hadrat Rehana daughter of Sham‘oon is not considered equal to other wives of the Hoy Prophet. According to certain historians; like Maria Qibtia, she was one of the bondmaid. A few historians like Ibn-e-Saad and Hafiz
        Ibn-e-Hajar have tried to provethat Rehana was married to the Holy Prophet; but these are un-authentic reports and not confirmed by majority of the other historians. Barring few, all historians have the consensus that she served the Prophet merely in the capacity of a bondmaid.

        The Holy Prophet’s behavior and attitude towards Rehana was such that many historians take her as his wife. But keeping in view of the conditions obtaining in that social predicament, this does not seem very surprising.
        She was merely his bondmaid. According to one narrative, Rehana declined the offer of marriage with the Holy Prophet Mohammad (SAW) and said:

        “Let me remain a bondmaid. I don’t deserve to be one of your wives”.

        Rehana was the daughter of Chief of Banu-Quraiza tribe. His name was Sham‘oon bin Zaid. The Banu Quraiza tribe mostly comprised of Jews and lived in the suburbs of Madina.After settling down and establishment of an Islamic state in Madina the Holy Prophet (SAW) endeavored to promote good relations with the neighbors of his tiny Islamic state. As a result of this effort, a treaty was signed with Banu-Quraiza by Madinites. This treaty had two clauses: firstly that both parties will not wage war against each other, and secondly that in case of aggression from any foreign tribe, the two parties will defend and meet the aggression jointly. But in clear violation of the agreement, the Banu-Quraiza kept on intriguing against Muslims. They extended secret co- operation to Makkans and anti-Islamic forces. Further they instigated the anti-Islamic forces to attack Madina since the Muslims were weak at that time. These nefarious activities could not remain secret and soon there was a battle between Muslims ofMadina and Banu-Quraiza. As a result, Banu-Quraiza lost this battle and their property, lands, goods of riches, effects, chattels and wealth were confiscated by the Muslims. According to the universally accepted custom, the booty included bondmen
        and bondmaids. Rehana was brought before the Holy Prophet (SAW) as a part of the booty. She was introduced as the daughter of the chief of Banu-Quraiza tribe. The Holy Prophet (SAW) addressed the prisoners of war and invited them to follow the path of Allah i.e. Islam. After the address of the Holy Prophet (SAW) Rehana stood up and said:
        “Please leave me alone”.

        The Prophet did not like this answer, got up and left. Ibn-e-Saad (Famous historian) has narrated that one day, the Prophet was sitting in a social gathering, and he hear the sound of somebody’s footsteps; instantly he said:
        “Listen this is Tha ‘alba who is coming to announce that Rehana has embraced Islam”.
        To the great surprise of the audience, the in-comer was Tha ‘alba and he announced what the Holy Prophet (SAW) had already revealed. After Rehana had embraced Islam, the Holy Prophet met her and offered, “If you likeand agree, I can marry you and you may observe Hijab (Hijab means Purdah, thetradition of hiding face and body by the Muslim women) as the rest of the wives are doing”.

        Rehana replied, “Let me remain a bondmaid, I don’t deserve to be one of your wives”.

        So she remained a bondmaid in the service of the Holy Prophet (SAW) till she died. One historian has reported that she was set free and was no longer a bondmaid. She died during the life of the Holy Prophet (SAW) in the
        tenth year of Hijrah. The Holy Prophet (SAW) had just returned from his last pilgrimage (Hijjat-ul-Wida) to Makkah.

        2-According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad took her as a maiden slave and offered her the status of becoming his wife if she accepted Islam, but she refused. According to his account, even though Rayhana is said to have later converted to Islam, she died as a slave.

        3-Ibn Sa’d writes and quotes Waqidi that she was manumitted but later married by Muhammad.According to Al-Halabi, Muhammad married and appointed dowry for her.She was buried in Jannat al-Baqi cemetery.

        So their are different accounts.I personally dont know which is more authentic.But neither account says that Rehana was raped by Prophet(pbuh).

        Also thier are many problems with Ibk Ishak’s Seerat.So it cannot be taken 100% true.Full detailed about problems in Ibn Ishak’s Seerat is here-

        http://www.answering-christian-claims.com/The-Problems-With-Ibn-Ishaq.html

        Plesae try to answer my all 11 question in “Discussion about Vedas” section.And 10 points in “Proving Quran God’s” word section.Only then I will answers your question from now.

        Please dont give cheap excuses like-read agniveer articles,i dont believe that,translation is incorrect etc.

        Please reply only when you had answer to my question.

        Thanks
        Abdullah Khan

      • Dear Vajra,

        Seriously, this guy you are debating with is a nut-head. There is no point wasting time with people like this. He has obviously only read one book in his life (the Quran) and knows nothing more. He gives statements like “90 % of girls lose their virginity before college” when it is obvious this pervert has never even interacted with girls in any way himself but still secretly masturbates to western and non-Muslim women.

        You will waste your time. I have tried debating with him before or another Abdullah (they look and sound the same); there is no logic behind their arguments. They produce bogus statistics and have a tendency to always deviate from the subject by defaming your religion. For example, if I accuse Mohammed being a woman demeanor, these people will come up with this bogus point that Krishna had 16,000 wives despite me giving them links proving the opposite by people who have studied Krishna and Mahabharat for 35+ years. In other words, whatever legitimate links you give them or logic, they will turn a blind eye and not even look through your work. Even Zakir Naik’s IRF foundatuion when they were recruiting internet Daw’ah fools, they stated in their ad that they have “ready made answers”.

        The same way we insist on giving Vedic translations from true and learned Vedic Sanskrit and Vedic scholars; they keep referring to Griffith but expect us to give translations from learned Islamic scholars. This is the story with Muslims like this; they do nothing for the economy or for the benefit of mankind, but expect everything in return. It is evident, at least judging from this guy’s command in the English language and general reasoning that he is not contributing positively to society. He is another nut that listens blindly to Mosque elders and wishes to do Daw’ah full-time.

        He will continue to insist that Quran is correlating with modern science despite it having strict beliefs in Adam and Eve and other Judeo-Christian fairy tales like David & Goliath (Quran 2:250-251). Depsite your best attempt to refute whatever you say, he will always find a sentence from your paragraph of arguments and concetrate his retaliation on this because he feels he might stand a chance arguing on this.

        Also, when it comes to women in Islam. Haven’t you noticed in forums like these and elsewhere, it is always males that are defending women rights whilst Muslim women are quiet on the subject. It is a well-known fact that Mohammed wrote the Quran and fooled the local people. Islam allows maximum 4 wives, Mohammed had 11. There is no logic here despite his excuses for his pedophile role model Mohammed: Quran is the alleged word of God, why is Mohammed above it? He is just a human messenger right? Why is he above word of God? This surely must bump up his “status”.

        Islam is falling apart slowly. I’ve always said, the more educated one becomes, the less the impact of dogmatic religions such as Islam has. I’m telling you. There is no point discussing with people who are following the words of disillusioned prophet:

        Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:

        Narrated by Aisha:

        The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub [ritually impure due to sexual intercourse or semen discharge]. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar [dress worn below the waist] and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

        Vajra, I hope you take some advice from this letter.

        Peace,

        Salkia

      • I dont have patience to read your long rattling. Could you please give me a specific date or year when is the judgement day? If you dont know that could you please ask muslim ummah to declare that, so that more people will get cinverted to the right path.I am most worried about how i have to rot in grave till the judgement day.I will take some perfumes when i die.

        Also instead of backtracing the scientifc acheivements could you religious bigots i.e people who claim that their book is the best and complete come up with a scientific discovery atleast of the sort like making generating power economically.

        if you do that i will follow the religion of that book.

      • Namaste Brother Abdullah Khan

        I am fine and hope same for you.

        1-4. I have written enough for intellectuals. Readers of this debate will understand that.

        Its not me but QURAN ITSELF which claims that heaven, hell and their residents are eternal (never ending or everlasting or forever)! Quran 18:3 says- “Wherein they shall remain FOREVER” and there are no less than 20 verses in Quran to claim the same! So it is proven that Quran contradicts with your logical beliefs and thus it is illogical.

        ———Heaven and Hell may abide forever but they are not eternal because THEY HAVE THEIR BEGINNING,——–

        What is the difference b/w never ending (eternal) and forever?

        5-Regarding Hadith on Women

        I have already proven that the reason for pointing out women, dog, ass etc is not distraction. Please see my above posts for the same. If distraction is the reason, why not passing of a camel, elephant, snake, scorpion etc which have more potential to distract a person than dog, ass or women, make one’s prayer annulled?

        Equality of humans regardless of their gender as per Vedas can be found here http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-woman/. This series based on Vedas has all the solutions to all problems related to women.

        ———Who says to you that Women cannot Lead———

        Muhammad!

        ——-cannot get education and cannot do business. Yes,women can do business but only in offices where whole staff is of females. Had you not heared the stories of how women in exploited in offices by their bosses.———–

        My reply was a response to your following words- “Her testimony as a witness is half that of men only in matters wherein she is generally less versed than men”

        ——Getting education is compulsory for every Muslim male or female.——
        Please give me the verse of Quran stating women has same rights over education.

        True status of women in Islam-

        ——1-Regarding Degree of Advantage of Men-

        Correct translation of the verse: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise” (2:228).—–

        Please give me the Arabic word from the verse which means “responsibility”. And interestingly, none of the Tafsirs give the word “responsibility”. Even translation of Yusuf Ali writes “advantage” instead of responsibility!

        Regarding Divorced women shall wait-
        I just wanted to show that women are treated as objects whose owner (men) can take them back or set free whenever they want! And I proved it.

        ————Is divorced allowed in Vedas? Where.————-

        I will answer it, but first you accept that divorce is the exclusive right of men and women dont have it in Islam.

        ———Regarding Women’s Right of Divorce- … Khula…———-

        Please give me verse from Quran just like divorce, which allows Khula or states that women can divorce their husbands by saying Talaq 3 times like men can do.

        BTW, do you know, what Khula is? Khula is just a process through which a woman CAN APPLY for the divorce IN WHICH HUSBAND’S AGREEMENT IS NECESSARY. It is nowhere near Divorce in which men have exclusive rights to leave the wives whenever they want!

        Discussion on Vedas-

        ——-1-May I remind you that this Debate is between Abdullah and Vajra.Not between Abdullah and Vajra+Agniveer’s Articles.———

        Agniveer’s article were given to you just to make you aware of basics of Vedas and philosophy without which you can never debate on Vedas. BTW when you can copy and paste the TRANSLATION OF QURAN BY NON MUSLIMS to show science in Quran, why cant I suggest you the work of Vedic scholar Agniveer on Vedas?

        ———So I want answers from you.If you want you can give the essence of Agniveer’s article in para or two here but I want answers and reasons from you not from Agniveer.———-

        Copying my words wont help you Brother 🙂 I have read Quran and Hadith more than you and by now you would have known that too! That is why I know that whatever any site contains about Islam, is it correct or not! And I knew it before you gave me the link. Got it? But you have not even seen Vedas and thus are completely unaware of Vedic philosophy. Thus first you need to read thoroughly about Vedas to discuss those with me just like I am discussing Quran with you.

        FIRST UNDERSTAND WHAT VEDAS SAY AND THEN COPY MY WORDS 🙂

        ——1-Prove to me Scientifically that Vedas are word of God with English translation supported by suitable link.(Like I am doing for Quran)—–

        I never promised you that I will provide you whole translation of Vedas in English. Whatever I had to say, I told it earlier. But of course I will provide you two links you asked for. Please get those in my next comment.

        ——–3-Still no English transalation of verses dealing with Incest in Vedas with proper link to support your transaltion.———

        If I give those, will you accept that morality of Vedas are much higher than those of Quran? Islam is based on incest itself since Adam’s siblings did incest! So first accept that Vedic concept of multiple couples in starting of human life (which I gave you with proof from Vedas) is best and that of Quran is incestuous and thus inferior to Vedas.

        ———4-How can you prove that Vedas were revealed at the beginning of human life.Zoroastrians claims that their religion is oldest so their scriptures were first revealed according to them.——–

        No Zoroastrian claims his religion to be oldest because their Gathas WERE NOT REVEALED but composed by Zoroaster himself 🙂 Even today, Gathas are interpreted based on Sanskrit grammar predominantly because of their roots in Sanskrit literature. Gatha itself is a Sanskrit word which means “story” or “saga”. So any claim of Zoroastrian religion to be the oldest no more exists 🙁

        ————The earliest part of Zoroaster’s teachings is known Gathas. We find a mention of Gathas in Vedas as well.(Artharva Veda, XV: 6-12.) But there is no mention of the Vedas and other Hindu books in Zoroastrian scriptures. This shows that Gathas are of an earlier date than Vedas———-

        This copied item from a Qadiyani book proves that you are a Qadiyani. And you even did not care to give the reference, I know why 😉 So please be careful next time when you copy and paste from Qadiyani sources if you are not a Qadiyani! In case you are, I rest my case, wont reply you in future.

        5-8, 10. Please get the basics first on the link I gave to be able to understand my replies.

        9. I dont believe in Avtaar system because Vedas unequivocally state that Eeshvar is unborn and unchangeable.

        11. No point in randomly asking me any Mantra. First get the basic philosophy of Vedas to appreciate and ask something.

        ——–I want answer from Great Scholar Vajra not from the man behind the scenes Agniveer.———-

        I subscribe to Agniveer’s vies of Vedas. So I will answer your queries raised on those article once you are done with those 🙂

        Regarding age of Aisha-

        Hadith I gave clearly mentions that Aisha did not reach the age of puberty when he married Muhammad. So everything is settled now.

        ——-As you have to keep in mind that Puberty in most girls start at age of 10 years still today.And Girl is considered mature after her first period in those days.———

        Allah and Muhammad seem to be unaware of the fact that any girl is never matured physically and mentally at 9. Starting of puberty is never considered as the age for marriage. This is the age when sexual organs and hormones START GROWING TO BE FUNCTIONAL, ITS NOT THE END OF THEIR GROWTH WHICH CAN BE TERMED AS MATURITY. I am surprised that Allah divinely fixed the marriage of the child Aisha with best (?) man ever born on earth, Muhammad just because fool Arabs devoid of any science believed the maturity of a girl at her first period 🙁

        ———Also please answer my these question-
        1-Why did Muhammad(pbuh) waited for three years i.e. from 6 to 9 before actual marriage if he was pedophile.———-

        As per Hadith, Aisha was not pubescent when she started to live with Muhammad. Thus Muhammad was pedophile for sure.

        ———Only logical answer is that they(Prophet(pbuh) and Ayesha’s parents) were waiting for Ayesha(ra) to reach puberty and for her first period.———

        Now look what Muhammad and Aisha’s parents were waiting for! For Aisha’s first period. You should be ashamed of your prophet and on yourself too that you and your scriptures which are full of such disgusting stories. Why was Muhammad so eager to have Aisha just after her first period? Why could not he wait for some more time to let her get matured?

        ————-2-If Muhammad(pbuh) was the evil pervert that anti-Islamic lobby has him cracked up to be, he simply wouldn’t have married Aisha. Paedophiles don’t marry their victims, they just rape or abuse them and leave them to deal with the mental scars.———————-

        Another great logic! So first rape children and then dont let them go! Make them your wives and be a prophet 😉

        Or do you mean that Muhammad was not pedophile because he married to his victim? My problem is why did he make her victim at all 🙁

        DISPROVING QURAN IS GOD’S WORD-

        ————-Wow what an excuse to run away from the truth.Before your this post I honestly considered you a Knowledgable and Open-minded person.But now your that status has gone for me.————

        For you, my friend, illogical and unscientific miracles are the truth, but for me, it is mockery of Allah whose laws are breakable even by/for humans 🙁

        ——–I have told you earlier that Science and Miracles dont go hand in hand so how it is possible for anybody to give scientific explation of Miracles.It is illogical to ask for scientific explaination of Miracles.————

        A self defeating statement really! When science and miracles dont go hand in hand, how can science and believers if miracles go hand in hand? How science and performers of miracles go hand in hand? Thus Islam and science can never go hand in hand, its proven by your own statement!

        And great words!!! Asking for scientific explanations for miracles is illogical but believing in unscientific miracles is logical 🙂

        So steps to prove Quran from God-

        1. Twist the meaning of verses to suit science and shout that science is present here 1400 years ago and thus Quran is from God

        2. If you find any verse which is too illogical to be twisted, just label it as miracle and say Allah is above all 🙂 Just ask who else could have done this act (against science) other than Allah?

        So its “head I win tail you loose” situation for Muslims!

        Also call all unscientific stories of Quran as miracles of Allah because He is above all, but when such stories are found in other scriptures, just call them foolish and unscientific 🙂 Heights of hypocrisy

        ———–Evidence of breaking of moon- I had provided you with some images in my earlier posts to support this.So check it.———

        Haha… Dear Brother Abdullah! If “It is illogical to ask for scientific explaination of Miracles” in your words, how is it logical to provide proofs in their support? 🙂

        ————Your excuse in your own words “Right now I dont want to go into the complications of the verses you gave as they are twisted to suit science” So you think that Muslim scholars have translated these vesres incorrectly.How about if I give you the transalation of NON-MUSLIMS on these.——————

        You got it all wrong Brother 🙁 I dont think so at all! In fact I think that Muslim scholars like Ibn Kathir, Jalalayn, Hussaini, Tabri, Jawzi etc who were greatest of scholars of Islam till date, should be quoted for showing science in Quran since they all knew Arabic better than any western non Arabic person you listed. I believe that all these Arabic Islamic experts translated the verses of Quran correctly. So PLEASE PROVIDE ME THE TRANSLATION OF ANY OF THESE GREATEST ISLAMIC SCHOLARS INSTEAD OF KAFIR NON MUSLIMS WHILE PROVING SCIENCE IN QURAN.

        Hope you will first accept your innumerable mistakes and contradictions in your writings which I have highlighted. Hope you will go through the basics of Vedas to be able to understand my response.

        Wish you all the best Dear Brother

        best regards

      • Namaste Brother Salkia
        Thanks for your logical, sharp and quick analysis. Your point is well taken. However Brother Abdullah has never attacked any of us personally so we should be decent with our language while giving him replies. Hope you agree with this

        best regards

      • @ Vajra

        The way I see it, when I debate with people like Abdullah, they are the ones disrespecting and urinating on the spirit for fair, reasonable and logical debate:

        Example:

        1) I prove Mohammed is a horny women demeanor and pedophile with quotes from Quran and Hadiths. I get respone saying how Krishna had 16,000 wives with no references. I debunk this myth by providing an article where the work of Bankimchandra Chattopadyaya is quoted. The latter studied Mahabharat for 36 years and proves Krishna had 1 wife and lead noble life. This reference is ignored by people like Abdullah.

        Therefore, my question is: If I am proving a negative side of Mohammed, why do these people have to blindly throw allegations on our important profiles? When these people do so, I wonder that they somehow see Krishna as a moral authority and just because Krishna did so, it automatically should excuse Mohammed’s behavior. Food for thought…

        2) From people like Abdullah I have heard things how Hinduism PROMOTES incest! How Brahma had sexual intercourse with his sister, Saraswati…Again, Griffith’s work was quoted…

        I am going to send a latter to the Defense Minister of Israel and ask him to translate the Quran and only use his translation…

        So, Brother Vajra, I don’t intend to debate with you. I have taken your point into consideration and therefore decided to stay away from this debate you are having with Abdullah. But just take on board what I said. People like him (Abdullah) can never see, approach or appreciate life like people like you and me and of course, most of the people posting at Agniveer. His life view is linear while our life view is expansive and dynamic.

        Peace,

        Salkia

      • Salam Brother Vajra

        I am fine.Hope you would be doing good.

        I am Very Very Sorry for late reply.My PC was not working thats why their is delay in my response.

        For 1-4- I have also written enough for open-minded persons to understand.Anyone who will read this discussion with unbiased mind will see it easily.

        5-Regarding Hadith on Women-

        You said”I have already proven that the reason for pointing out women, dog, ass etc is not distraction”.

        To whom you had proved.
        NOT TO ME.
        Instead I have proven from various ways and giving responses from various scholars on this issue that this hadith is only about disatration caused by women or any other thing(may it be dog,ass,elephant camel,snake etc).

        From the taking following Hadith in view also-

        Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 489:
        Narrated Busr bin Said: that Zaid bin Khalid sent him to Abi Juhaim to ask him what he had heard from Allah’s Apostle about a person passing in front of another person who was praying. Abu Juhaim replied, “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘If the person who passes in front of another person in prayer knew the magnitude of his sin he would prefer to wait for 40 (days, months or years) rather than to pass in front of him.” Abu An-Nadr said, “I do not remember exactly whether he said 40 days, months or years.”

        Here the prophet clearly tells us that such a person (could be man or woman) would commit a sin, why would he commit a sin ? Off course because he probably could distract a person during prayer, which could ‘cut off’ that persons prayer (make his prayer less perfect or imperfect) . So both men and women can distract a person during prayer, which would ‘cut off’ / make less perfect ‘ someones prayer. The reason that women are sometimes singled out in a hadith, is because a beautifull women more likely distracts a man from prayer.

        I have also told you the general law derived from thse Hadiths i.e.- That nobody should pass by a praying person, women AND MEN.While women is praying then MEN should also not pass by her.

        -On that women cant do business and cant lead-

        This is your own assessment but the examples set by Wives of Prophet(pbuh) are different i.e.-

        Khadijah(ra), Prophet Muhammad’s first wife, was a business woman.She actually used to travel on her camel.
        Also, Aisha,(ra) one of Prophet Muhammad’s wives, not only narrated so many of his Sayings, and taught so many Muslims many laws about Islam during his life and after his death, but believe it or not, she actually led an army of 60,000 Muslim men after our Prophet peace be upon him died. That battle was called the “Battle of Camel”. It is a very popular battle. Every Muslim knows it.

        -You said”Please give me the verse of Quran stating women has same rights over education.”

        The Education of Women(I can use both Quran or Sahih-Hadith as both are in our topic)

        Narrated Abu Said: A woman came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Men (only) benefit by your teachings, so please devote to us from (some of) your time, a day on which we may come to you so that you may teach us of what Allah has taught you.” Allah’s Apostle said, “Gather on such-and-such a day at such-and-such a place.” They gathered and Allah’s Apostle came to them and taught them of what Allah had taught him. (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 413)

        Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: “The Prophet said, ‘He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah’s right and his master’s right will get a double reward.’ (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Manumission of Slaves, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 723)”

        Malik ibn Huwayruth and a group of young men had come to live near Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to take knowledge from him. When they deiced to return to their homes, Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam told them “Return home to your wives and children and stay with them. Teach them what you have learned and ask them to act upon it.” ( al Bukhari)

        Please know that the only country or group of Muslim extremists that ban women from education,doing business are the “Taliban” group in Afghanistan. The rest of the 1.4 Billion Muslim populations don’t have any laws that prohibit women to be educated or seek the highest academic degrees they desire. The problem with the Taliban of Afghanistan, however, is that most of their top leaders are illiterate. They literally don’t know how to read and write.I wouldn’t expect any good leadership from a leadership such as the Taliban in Afghanistan. So, when they give verdicts against women’s education, they are really coming up with their own false interpretations, that to them, seem to be the perfect rules.

        True status of women in Islam

        1-Regarding Degree of Advantage of Men-

        Correct translation of the verse: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise” (2:228)

        Brother you says yourself Great Scholar of Islam but you dont that the words in brackets denotes that these words are not in original manuscript of Arabic.These words are added by transalators in thier transalations according to their understanding to give clear understanding of the verse .So it is foolish to ask for the Arabic word used here for “reposibility’.

        This verse means that Allah gave the men a greater degree of responsibility over the women than that of women over men. It follows that the rights owned to the wife are unnegotiable, whereas the husband has to give up certain rights. This is not a feminist reading but the actual explanation of Ibn `Abbas (companion of the prophet) according to AL-TABARI in his Tafsir, and the latter preferred it over all other commentaries of that verse (Al-Tabari said the best explanation is that of Ibn `Abbas).

        Tafsir al-Tabri on this verse-
        Al-Tabari in his Tafsir narrated from Ibn `Abbas: “The daraja(or degree in english) mentioned by Allah Most High here is the forfeiting, on the man’s part, of some his wife’s obligations towards him and his indulgence towards her, while he is fully obligated to fulfill all his obligations towards her, because the verse came right after { And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness} . Hence Ibn `Abbas said: ‘I would not like to obtain all (astanzif) of my right from her because Allah Most High said { and men are a degree above them} .'”

        Regarding Khula-

        Khula’ means the separation of the wife in return for a payment; the husband takes the payment and lets his wife go, whether this payment is the mahr which he gave to her, or more or less than that.

        The basic principle concerning this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

        “And it is not lawful for you (men) to take back (from your wives) any of your Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) which you have given them, except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allaah (e.g. to deal with each other on a fair basis). Then if you fear that they would not be able to keep the limits ordained by Allaah, then there is no sin on either of them if she gives back (the Mahr or a part of it) for her Al-Khul‘ (divorce)”[2:229]

        The evidence for that from the Sunnah is that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays ibn Shammaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not find any fault with Thaabit ibn Qays in his character or his religious commitment, but I do not want to commit any act of kufr after becoming a Muslim.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her, “Will you give back his garden?” Because he had given her a garden as her mahr. She said, “Yes.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Thaabit: “Take back your garden, and divorce her.”(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5273).

        From this case the scholars understood that if a woman cannot stay with her husband, then the judge should ask him to divorce her by khula’; indeed he should ORDER him to do so.

        The couple can normally agree upon any financial arrangement they desire. However, the Fuqaha state that, if the husband was at fault and it was his wrongdoings that resulted in the failure of their marriage, then it is impermissible for him to demand a financial payment in return for a divorce. He should divorce the wife without demanding anything in return.

        “But if you decide to take one wife in place of another, even if you had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, take not the least bit of it back. Would you take it by slander and a manifest wrong? And how could you take it when you have gone into each other, and We have taken from you a solemn covenant?” (Surah al-Nisa, 20-21)

        Due to the above verse of the Qur’an, the Fuqaha have declared the taking of anything in return as a major sin if the husband was at fault.However, if the husband was not at fault, but the wife for some reason or another wishes to end the marriage, then it is permissible for the husband to demand and receive some financial payment. It would be superior for him not to take more than the actual stipulated dowry. However, it would be permissible for them to agree on any amount. (See: Bada’i al-Sana’i, 3/150 & Bahr al-Ra’iq, 4/83)

        “It is unlawful for you (men), to take back (dowry, etc…) from your wives, except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If you (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she gives something for her freedom.” (Surah al-Baqarah, 229)

        With regard to the way in which it is done, the husband should take his payment or they should agree upon it, then he should say to her “faaraqtuki” (I separate from you) or “khaala’tuki (I let you go), or other such words.

        ——In a case where Husband do not agree for Khula-

        If a woman wants to divorce, it is necessary that her husband give her the right to divorce. If a married woman wants to divorce and her husband does not divorce her, the families can choose an arbitration committee and the divorce can be realized.

        A woman is religiously the wife of the man whom she performed a marriage; therefore she cannot marry anybody else unless her husband divorces her.

        The things that can be done in such a situation is to make the man divorce the woman or to divorce them through an arbitration committee.

        In a situation like that, it is not right for the man not to insist on not divorcing the woman only in order to harm her. (al-Baqara, 2/231).

        Therefore, in a situation like that, a respectable, wise, virtuous scholar should go and talk to the man as a mediator and tell him that he should end a marriage that does not benefit him at all, that the religious marriage cannot be used to satisfy oneself by harming the woman and that it is contrary to Islam; he should persuade the man to divorce the woman.

        If the man insists on not divorcing, the families of the woman and man choose an arbiter each because they cannot apply to the court since there is not an official marriage. If one of the families does not agree to choose an arbiter, the other family can choose a just and impartial arbiter for them.

        The arbiters try to arbitrate first. If there is a real necessity, they can decide to divorce the man and the woman even if the spouses do not consent.

        After a divorce like that takes place and the waiting period for the woman ends, the woman can marry again.

        You had not answered my following points-
        1-“Well I think in Hinduism it is not good for Divorced women to remarry.”
        2-“Is divorced allowed in Vedas? Where”
        3-“Did in Vedas Women has right to seek divorce?Where”

        Status of Women in Vedas-

        Vajra,please give your views on the following verses from Vedas about Woman.

        1-Rig Veda (8/33/17) censures women by saying:
        Lord Indra himself has said that woman has very little intelligence. She cannot be taught.?

        2-O husband, protect the son to be born. Do not make him a woman.” (2/3/23)

        3-Almighty God, you have created this womb. Women may be born somewhere else but sons should be born from this womb?. (Atharva Veda, 6/11/3).

        4-There cannot be any friendship with a woman. Her heart is more cruel than that of a hyena.? (Rig Veda, 10/95/15)

        5-Women are without energy. They should not get a share in the property. Even to the wicked, they speak in a feeble manner?. (Yajur Veda, 6/5/8/2)

        6-Shatpath Puran (Shatpath Brahmin), preachings of the ‘Yajur Veda’ clubs women, ‘shudras’ (untouchables), dogs and crows together and says falsehood, sin and gloom remain ingrained in them. (14/1/1/31).

        7-Please explain The sexual ritual of the asvamedha yajna in the Vedas.(Yajur Veda, 23/19) ,(Yajur Veda, 23 / 20 – 21)

        8-Almighty God, you have created this womb. Women may be born somewhere else but sons should be born from this womb?. (Atharva Veda, 6/11/3).

        Please tell how these verses improve the status of Women.And how they shows great respect to wome.

        Discussion on Vedas-

        1-I am well aware of basics of Vedic Philosophy.So please dont teach to try me.If you want to prove to me that Vedic Philosophy carry some weight then ONLY GIVE ANSWERS TO MY MANY QUESTIONS.

        I have told you earlier also that I did not consider Agniveer a Scholar.Yes I do consider Dayanand
        Saraswati,Raja Ram Mohan Roy as Scholars.So please give me articles of Dayanand Saraswati etc.

        Transalation of Quran which I am giving you are from world-famous scholars not from man behind the scene.

        But only for you I have readed the articles on Vedic Philosophy you had given me links from Agniveer.After reading that their are many NEW question in my mind which I will ask you below in this post.

        -Why cannot I copy your words are your Words is “copyright reserved trademarks”.

        I have readed those Agniveer’s Article which you had suggested me on Vedic Philosophy so now you has to answer my ALL question.

        My UNANSWERED points in this section-

        1-Prove to me Scientifically that Vedas are word of God with English transaltion supported by suitable link.

        Ok I leave you on this one but first please accept that YOUR scholars are not doing enough to promote your faith because translation of the very foundation of your faith i.e. Vedas are not availble online in International language i.e. English.

        On my side Translation of Quran is present in many many languages including Sanskrit.

        2-Still no English tranalation by you on the verses about Scientific Erors in Vedas

        Again you are giving Agniveer’s own transaltion can you please tell me whose transaltion is Agniveer using and from where.Also type the translation here so all peoples can see.

        3-Still no English transalation of verses dealing with Incest in Vedas with proper link to support your transaltion.

        Brother you are just passing time by saying I will give you after you accept this or that.But the fact is that you did not have the translation.Or you are waiting for your Guru Agniveer to manufacture his own translation.

        Also, Adam and Eve case was in the beginning of humans so I did not hold it as a sin.But in Prajapati(or Brahma) and Usha(or Saraswati) case it is so called gOD himself who is commiting incest with his own daughter thats why I feel it disgusting.And in other cases which I have listed the events are of well after the episode of beginning of human and their are not 1 or 2 but MANY.

        —You said”So first accept that Vedic concept of multiple couples in starting of human life (which I gave you with proof from Vedas) is best and that of Quran is incestuous and thus inferior to Vedas”.

        The verse which you had given me i.e Yajur Veda 31:9 was one singled out of context.Thats why I am giving you context for explaining or giving correct transaltion.

        Please expalin all these 6 verses then I will understand about your multiple couple at beginning of human life theory.Because when these 6 verse or this full Chapter is readed then it is giving very different message then what you are telling me.Also their are major scientific errors in these 6 verses.

        Yajur Veda 31:9-14-
        9They balmed as victim on the grass Purusha born in earliesttime.
        With him the Deities and all Sâdhyas and Rishis sacrificed.
        10When they divided Purusha how many portions did they make?What was his mouth? what
        were his arms? what are thr names of thighs and feet?
        11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Râjanya made.His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra wasproduced.
        12 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eyethe Sun had birth;Vâyu and Prâna from his ear, and from his mouth was Agniborn.
        13 Forth from his navel came mid-air; the sky was fashioned from his head;Earth from his feet,
        and from his ear the Quarters. Thus they formed the worlds.
        14 When Gods performed the sacrifice with Purusha as offeringSpring was the butter, Autumn the oblation, Summer was the wood.

        But you are failing to explain these verses.Thats prove that you are not a so-called Scholar which you pretend to be but you only rely on the verses which your Guru Agniveer had told you.And you yourself not have the knowledge of Vedas.

        4-I am Sunni Muslim.

        For 5-11

        Now I have learned the basics on the link that you gave to be.Now I can understand your replies.

        So please answer

        5-Let consider you were Cat so how you have studied Eeshwar in previous birth.Can Cat commit sin.

        7-In context with Re-Incarnation-When will a person improve? A person will improve only when he knows very well what he did mistake earlier, so next time he will strive to rectify his mistakes. But, in actual no person remembers what mistake he did in his earlier life.
        May be this is the same reason of Hitler killing 6 million Jews. Hitler (with swastika flags) might have thought he could improve himself in the next life and do genocide on Jews in the present life.

        8-If one will not worship Eeshwar and do bad deeds then how he will be punished.If he will not be pubished then why one should worship Eeshwar and do good deeds.Considering both good and bad peoples are in this world.

        10-Whose Aatma(soul) is beginningless.God or Creation(e.g. Human,animals etc).

        11-Please give correct translation of and also Explain- Yajur Veda 31:9-14 .
        Yajur Veda 31:9-14-
        They balmed as victim on the grass Purusha born in earliesttime.
        With him the Deities and all Sâdhyas and Rishis sacrificed.
        10When they divided Purusha how many portions did they make?What was his mouth? what were his arms? what are thr names of thighs and feet?
        11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Râjanya made.His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra wasproduced.
        12 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eyethe Sun had birth;Vâyu and Prâna from his ear, and from his mouth was Agniborn.
        13 Forth from his navel came mid-air; the sky was fashioned from his head;Earth from his feet,
        and from his ear the Quarters. Thus they formed the worlds.
        14 When Gods performed the sacrifice with Purusha as offeringSpring was the butter, Autumn the oblation, Summer was the wood.

        I know this is wrong translation accoding to you.So,please provide correct translation.So I can understand from these verses about the creation in early days according to Vedas.

        -I had not asked about this mantra randomly.First you was the one who give me Yajur Veda 31:9.I am only asking about the context of this verse.

        But you are failing to explain these verses.Either you are not Scholart or you only rely on the verses which your Agniveer gives.

        Now my new question on Vedas(which come to my mind after reading Agniveer’s Articles)

        12-Why does the Universe exist as opposed to not existing?

        13-Is the universe eternal or did it have a beginning

        14- Why Hinduism says that world around us is an illusion (maya) or dream.

        15-What is evil?Why does evil exist?Why do we do evil?

        16-What is sin?How do we obtain forgiveness for our sins?

        PROVING QURAN GOD’S WORD-

        ———–You said”For you, my friend, illogical and unscientific miracles are the truth, but for me, it is mockery of Allah whose laws are breakable even by/for humans “——–

        Please tell me what are the laws of Allah or Ishwar according to you in DETAILS.

        ———-You said”And great words!!! Asking for scientific explanations for miracles is illogical but believing in unscientific miracles is logical”.———-

        First of all, Miracles are not Unscientific.Science has not reached the level to accept or deny Miracles.Because scientific astounding discoveries are interpreted through science whereas a miracle is something supernatural, which may not be interpreted through the usual.
        Also,these miracles did not contradict established science.Can you give me the PROVE by any world renowed scientist about that these miracles are false.(I can give you PROVE FROM MANY WORLD RENOWED SCIENTIST THAT QURAN IS GOD’S WORD.)

        Miracles cannot be used to prove any scripture unscientific may it be Quran or Veda.If you want to prove Quran unscientific then find the verse which tells unscientific things e.g. Sun is stationary,Moon has its own light,Earth is flat etc.Like I have pointed out in VEDAS.

        I challenge you to find any scientific error in Quran which goes against established science.(Please check My responses to SALKIA in these forums where I have given details reply about alleged scientific errors in Quran before giving your points).

        Also,I belive in these Miracles because it is written in Quran.And I know that Quran is God’s Word.So also believe that these miracles are true.But now the question is why I believe in that Quran is God’s word.Thats what I am proving to you in this section.So first refute my those 10 points then automatically these all miracles will be proven true or false.

        Plus,I am not using these Miracles to prove Quran as God’s word instead I am using SCIENTIFIC FACTS mentioned in Quran to prove my point.

        Before answering your illogical 6 question I want to ask to some question similar to those-

        1-Can you prove existence of Ishawar according to Science.
        2-Can you prove according to Science that eternal Soul exist.
        3-Can you prove Re-Incarnation using Science.
        4-Can you prove using Science that the Rishis to whom Vedas were given i.e. Agni,Vayu etc did really existed in this world.

        But for sake of discussion let me look at your questions-

        1. Muhammad(pbuh) broke the moon.

        -Check this link-
        http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/miracle-of-splitting-of-moon-into-two-halves-is-the-truth-believe-it-or-not-4090357.html

        I have given you image from NASA which clearly shows “Rocky Belt” on the surface of moon.And this Belt is only possible if Moon was splitted in two halves.

        –Cheraman Perumal, (Tajuddin. r.a) king of india-Kodungallur, Kerala (AD 622-628. Hijra 1-7) was the first Indian to accept Islam. Many historians have recorded this fact in their writings. Kerala is a state of India. The state stretches for 360 miles (580 kilometers) along the Malabar Coast on the southwestern side of the Indian peninsula. King Chakrawati Farmas of Malabar was a Chera king, Cheraman perumal of Kodungallure. On a moon-lit night the king while walking on the rooftop of his palace along with the queen saw the moon suddenly splitting into two halves.

        The incident is documented Hamidulla writes in “Muhammad Rasoolullah [Pbuh] in a manuscript kept at the India Office Library, London, reference number: Arabic, 2807, 152-173 A group of Muslim merchants passing by Malabar on their way to China spoke to the king about how God had supported the Arabian prophet with the miracle of splitting of the moon. The shocked king said he had seen it with his own eyes as well, deputized his son, and left for Arabia to meet the Prophet in person. He embraced Islam at the hand of the Prophet Muhammad [Pbuh] in the presence of Abu Bakr Siddique, who later became the first caliph, who took a Muslim name, Tajuddin, and when returning home, at the direction of the Prophet, died at the port of Zafar, Yemen,(salalah Oman) where the tomb of the Indian king was piously visited for many centuries.

        Thus it is clear that Cheraman Perumal was the first believer of India. However, there are differences of opinion among historians concerning the year in which it took place.

        -A tradition Hadith of the Holy Prophet has also been reported from one of the companions, Abu Saeed al Khudri, regarding the arrival of Cheraman Perumal:”A king from India presented the Messenger of Allah with a bottle of pickle that had ginger in it. The Holy Prophet distributed it among his companions. I also received a piece to eat.” Hakim reports in ‘Al Musthadrak”

        -Also,In one of Dr. Zaghlool Al-Najaar’s seminars, in one of the British universities said: “The miracle of the splitting of the moon has been proven recently”… “ One of the British brothers who is very concerned about the state of Islam “Dawood Musa” who is the new chairman of the British Muslims party who is planning to enter the coming elections under the banner of Islam, which is spreading extremely fast in the west said “While he was searching for a religion, a friend gave him a copy of the Quran translated in English. He opened it and came across Surat Al-Qamar and read “The hour has come and the moon has split”, looking at this he said ‘The moon has split?!’ He then stopped reading and did not open it again.

        Then one day while watching a program on the BBC, The broadcaster was talking with three American
        scientists, and the broadcaster was blaming America for spending billons of dollars on space projects, in a time where millions of people are suffering from poverty.

        The scientists were trying to explain why it is important to go into space exploration.
        Soon the scientists came to discuss the most expensive trip to the moon, which costed about 100 billion dollars, so the broadcaster asked them “So to put the American flag on the moon you spent this much money?!”

        The scientists stated that this much money was spent because they were trying to study the internal structure of the moon to see what similarities it has with the Earth, and they said that they were surprised to find a ‘Belt of Rocks’ that goes from the surface of the moon right to the inner depths.
        Being quite surprised, they gave this information to their geologists, who were also surprised, as they concluded that this couldn’t be unless the moon was once split and resealed. The rocks on the belt are a result of the impact during the time that the two halves of the moon recombined.

        Watching this brother Dawood Mussa jumped off his seat screaming “This is Muhammad P.B.U.H.’s miracle which occurred more than 1400 years ago, and now the Americans are spending billions of dollars to prove it to the Muslims. He then said “This must surely be a true religion, and so, where once Surat Al-Qamar was a cause for him disbelieving in Islam, it was now the reason for his embracing Islam…

        2. Sea was separated when Muhammad wanted to cross it

        -Lol, Brother this prove your lack of knowledge in Islam.Can you please show me any verse from Quran that sea was separated when MUHAMMAD(pbuh) wanted to cross it.

        Yes,sea was separated when Prohet MOSES(pbuh) wanted to cross it.

        Prophet Moses had Split the Red Sea with the help of Allah & Saved the Children’s of Israel from torments of Pharaoh. Pharaoh’s body was found in the Red Sea, this proves that the story of Moses (peace be upon him) splitting the sea with the help of Allah Almighty really happened. Pharaoh’s body is 3500 years old, it’s amazing that it was preserved very well in the sea. Even some of the mummies are not preserved this well. Also fish in the sea could have easily eaten the flesh, but they didn’t. Why is that? The answer is in the following verse of the Quran where God says:

        preserve your body, to set you up as a lesson for future generations. Unfortunately, many people are totally oblivious to our signs. Quran (10:90-92)

        3. Flying donkey of Muhammad in Shab e Meraz

        -Please PROVE that it is unscientific.

        For me answer is that scientific astounding discoveries are interpreted through science whereas a miracle is something supernatural, which may not be interpreted through the usual.

        4. Jesus without father

        -In your responses to me you has said that Ishawar created multiple couple at the starting of Human life.So if Ishwar or God can create multiple couple without and FATHER AND MOTHER then he can also create ONE JESUS WITHOUT FATHER.

        Also,please proof Scientifically that Ishwar created multiple couple at starting of human life WITHOUT FATHER AND MOTHER.

        5&6-Please give verse from Quran to support your argument.Then I will try to answer you.

        ——- You said”Twist the meaning of verses to suit science and shout that science is present here 1400 years ago and thus Quran is from God”———

        Can you please tell me Vajra that who had twisted the meaning of verses to suit science.Can you please give me some names.

        I have provided you with Yusuf Ali’s translation which was done in 1930s before many scientific discoveries were done which was present in Quran 1400 years ago.I can provide you same translation from 4 or 5 scholars of that time also.

        I have provided you Translation of NON-MUSLIMS like J.M.Rodwell & E.H.Palmer done in 1870s.Before any of these scientific discoveries were made.I have also provided you translation of A.J.Arberry a NON-MUSLIM done in 1960s.

        Now,I am providing you Tafsir of Ibn Kathir and Jalalayn.

        So now who is left.So please fing another excuse then just saying that translation is twisted.

        ———-You said “In fact I think that Muslim scholars like Ibn Kathir, Jalalayn, Hussaini, Tabri, Jawzi etc who were greatest of scholars of Islam till date, should be quoted for showing science in Quran since they all knew Arabic better than any western non Arabic person you listed. I believe that all these Arabic Islamic experts translated the verses of Quran correctly. So PLEASE PROVIDE ME THE TRANSLATION OF ANY OF THESE GREATEST ISLAMIC SCHOLARS INSTEAD OF KAFIR NON MUSLIMS WHILE PROVING SCIENCE IN QURAN.”———

        Your this statement again prove your lack of knowledge about Islam.Brother,scholars like Ibn Kathir,Jalalayn,Tabri,Hussaini NEVER TRANSLATED THE QURAN.THEY ONLY HAS WRITTEN TAFSIR i.e. COMMENTARY OF QURAN.

        So,it is foolish to ask for their translation.

        But I will give you Tafseer Ibn Kathir and Tafsir Al Jalalayn in my response from now.But it should be noted that any of these tafsirs cannot be taken 100% true word by word because Tafsirs are the commentaries that are written by scholars according to their own knowledge.They are man-made so their can be some mistakes in them.

        For Tafsir Ibn Kathir- Yes,it can be taken as the most authentic Tafsir then any other early Tafsirs of Quran.

        For Tafsir Hussaini- I have only heared the name of this Tafsir from Agniveer and You.And THIS TAFSIR IS NOT AUTHENTIC.

        Now my points to prove Quran as God’s Word-

        1-Qrigin of Universe

        BIG BANG

        The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

        “Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder” [Al-Qu’ran 21:30 by Yusuf Ali]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Quran 21:30-

        Here Allah tells of His perfect might and power in His creation and subjugation of all things.

        (Have not those who disbelieve known) means, those who deny His Divine nature and worship others instead of Him, do they not realize that Allah is the One Who is Independent in His powers of creation and is running the affairs of all things with absolute power So how can it be appropriate to worship anything else beside Him or to associate others in worship with Him DO THEY NOT SEE THAT THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE JOINED TOGHTER, i.e. In the beginning they were all one piece, attached to one another and piled up on top of one another, THEN HE SEPARATED THEM FROM ONE ANOTHER, and made the heavens seven and the earth seven, placing the air between the earth and the lowest heaven. Then He caused rain to fall from the sky and vegetation to grow from the earth.

        Sufyan Ath-Thawri narrated from his father from `Ikrimah that Ibn `Abbas was asked; “Did the night come first or the day” He said, “Do you think that when the heavens and the earth were joined together, there was anything between them except darkness Thus you may know that the night came before the day. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Umar said that a man came to him and questioned him about when the heavens and earth were joined together then they were parted. He said, “Go to that old man (Shaykh) and ask him, then come and tell me what he says to you.” So he went to Ibn `Abbas and asked him. Ibn `Abbas said: “Yes, the heavens were joined together and it did not rain, and the earth was joined together and nothing grew. When living beings were created to populate the earth, rain came forth from the heavens and vegetation came forth from the earth.” The man went back to Ibn `Umar and told him what had been said. Ibn `Umar said, “Now I know that Ibn `Abbas has
        been given knowledge of the Qur’an. He has spoken the truth, and this is how it was.” Ibn `Umar said: “I did not like the daring attitude of Ibn `Abbas in his Tafsir of the Qur’an, but now I know that he has been given knowledge of the Qur’an.” Sa`id bin Jubayr said: “The heavens and the earth were attached to one another, then when the heavens were raised up, the earth became separate from them, and this is their parting which was mentioned by Allah in His Book.” Al-Hasan and Qatadah said, “They were joined together, then they were separated by this air.”

        Tafsir al-Jalalayn on Quran 21:30-

        Have they not ([one may] read a-wa-lam or a-lam) realised, [have they not] come to know, those who disbelieve, that the HEAVENS AND THE EARTH WERE CLOSED TOGHTER AND THEN WE PARTED THEM, We made seven heavens and seven earths — or [it is meant] that the heaven was parted and began to rain, when it did not use to do so, and that the earth was parted and began to produce plants, when it did not use to do so;

        The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

        Who could have mentioned this fact in Quran 1400 years ago.Please Vajra tell me.

        2-INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES

        Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas.The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

        “Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke:He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.’They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.” [Al-Qur’an 41:11 by Yusuf Ali]]

        Tafsir al Jalayn on 41:11-

        Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke, [consisting of] rising vapours, and He said to it and to the earth, “Come both of you, to what I desire from you, willingly, or unwillingly!” (taw‘an aw karhan, their [syntactical] locus is that of a circumstantial qualifier, in other words, ‘[Come] being obedient or coerced’). They said, “We come, together with all those inhabiting us, willingly!” (tā’i‘īna mainly indicates masculine rational beings; it may also be that they are referred to in this way because they are being addressed thus).

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on 41:11-

        (Then He rose over (Istawa ila) towards the heaven when it was smoke,) i.e., steam which arose from it when the earth was created.and said to it and to the earth: “Come both of you willingly or unwillingly.”) meaning, `respond to My command and be subjected to this action, willingly or unwillingly.(They both said: “We come willingly.”) meaning, `we will respond to You willingly and everything that You want to create in us — angels, Jinn and men — will all be obedient to You.’

        Details on this verse is in my previous post.

        Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

        3-Expanding Universe

        This is what the Qur’an says regarding the nature of the universe:

        “With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: For it is We Who create the vastness of Space.”
        [Al-Qur’an 51:47]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on 51:47

        (We constructed the heaven.) meaning, `We made it as a high roof, protected from falling,'(with Hands), meaning, with strength, according to `Abdullah bin `Abbas, Mujahid, Qatadah, Ath-Thawri and several others,(Verily, We are able to extend the vastness of space thereof.) means, `We made it vast and We brought its roof higher without pillars to support it, and thus it is hanging independently.’

        Tafsir al Jalayn on 51:47

        “And the heaven, We built it with might, and indeed We are powerful (one says āda’l-rajulu or ya’īdu, to mean, ‘he is strong’; and awsa‘a’l-rajulu, to mean, ‘he has become capable [dhū sa‘a] and strong’).”

        The Arabic word used here musioon is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe.Mora details on this verse is in my prevoius post

        The Qur’an mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope!

        4-THE SUN ROTATES

        Consider the following Qur’anic verse:

        “It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: At! (the cetestiat bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” [Al-Qur’an 21:33]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir in 21:33-

        (And He it is Who has created the night and the day,) meaning, the one with its darkness and stillness, and the other with its light and human interaction; sometimes the one is longer while the other is shorter, then they switch.(and the sun and the moon,) the sun with its own light and its own path and orbit and allotted time, and the moon which shines with a different light and travels on a different path and has its own allotted time.(each in an orbit floating.) means, revolving. Ibn `Abbas said, “They revolve like a spinning wheel, in a circle.”

        Tafsir al Jalalayn on 21:33-
        “And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each (kullun, the nunation of this [particle] stands in place of the second noun [of the genitive construction] that would have been al-shams, ‘the sun’, or al-qamar, ‘the moon’, or their subsidiaries, namely, al-nujūm, ‘the stars’) in an orbit, a circular [one] like a mill in the sky, swimming, moving with speed, like a swimmer in water. In order to effect the analogy with the latter, the plural person [of the verb employed] for rational beings is used.”

        The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon. This word is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming.Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space.

        “It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, norcan the Night outstrip the Day: (Each Oust) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Al-Qur’an 36:40 by Yusuf Ali]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on 36:30-

        (It is not for the sun to overtake the moon,) this means that each of them has its time when it prevails. So it is not appropriate for the sun to rise at night.(nor does the night outstrip the day.) means, after night has passed, it is not right for another night to come until it has been day. The authority of the sun is during the day and the authority of the moon is at night. Ad-Dahhak said, “The night does not depart from here until the day comes from here — and he pointed to the east.” Mujahid said:(nor does the night outstrip the day.) “They seek one another rapidly.” The meaning is that there is no gap between night and day; each of them follows the other with no interval, because they have been subjugated and are both constantly pursuing one another.(They all float, each in an orbit.) means, night and day, the sun and the moon, all of them are floating, i.e., revolving, in their orbits in the heaven. This was the view of Ibn `Abbas, `Ikrimah, Ad-Dahhak, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and `Ata’ Al-Khurasani. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, and others among the Salaf said, “In an orbit like the arc of a spinning
        wheel.”

        Tafsir al Jalalayn on 36:40-

        “It does not behove — it is [neither] facilitated nor is it right for — the sun to catch up with the moon, and so appear together with it at night, nor may the night outrun the day, and thus it [the night] never arrives before the latter ends and each (kullun: the nunation compensates for the [missing] genitive annexation [that would have been constructed] with al-shams, ‘the sun’, al-qamar, ‘the moon’, and al-nujūm, ‘the stars’) [of these] is in an orbit, swimming, moving — these [celestial bodies] are being treated as [though they were] rational beings.”

        This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.

        The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established.

        One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

        YOU ONLY HAS TO TELL ME THAT WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THESE KNOWLEDGE IN QORAN 1400 YEARS AGO.

        5-MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT

        It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago in the following verse:

        “Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’an 25:61 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on 25:61-

        (And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps) (67:5). Allah says:(Blessed be He Who has placed in the heaven Al-Buruj, and has placed therein a great lamp,) which is the sun which shines like a lamp, as Allah says:And We have made (therein) a shining lamp)(and a moon giving light.) means, shining and illuminated by the light of something else, different from the light of the sun, as Allah says:(It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light) (10:5).And Allah tells us that Nuh, peace be upon him,said to his people:(See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another And has made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp) (71:15-16).

        Tafsir al Jalalayn on 25:61-

        “God, exalted be He, says: Blessed, magnified, is He Who has placed in the heaven constellations, twelve [of them]: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo (al-sunbula), Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. They are the mansions for the seven orbiting planets: Mars rules Aries and Scorpio, Venus: Taurus and Libra, Mercury: Gemini and Virgo, the Moon: Cancer, the Sun: Leo, Jupiter: Sagittarius and Pisces, and Saturn: Capricorn and Aquarius; and has, also, placed in it a lamp, namely, the sun, and a shining moon (a variant reading [for sirājan, ‘sun’] has the plural surujan, which would mean ‘luminous stars’). The moon is singled out for mention because of its particular merit.”

        The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaajor diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

        The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

        “It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty).” [Al-Qur’an 10:5
        transalted by Yusuf Ali]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathir on 10:5-

        (It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out for it stages that you might know the number of years and the reckoning. Allah did not create this but in truth. He explains the Ayat in detail for people who have knowledge.)

        Tafsir al Jalalayn on 10:5-

        He it is Who made the sun a radiance, that is, emitting light, and the moon a light, and determined it, with respect to its movement, in stations: 28 stations in 28 nights every month, becoming concealed for two nights when a particular month has 30 days, or [concealed] for one night, when it has 29 days, so that you might know, thereby, the number of the years and the reckoning. God did not create that, which is mentioned, save in truth, not in vain, exalted be He above such things. He details (read yufassilu or nufassilu, ‘We detail’) the signs for a people who know, who reflect.

        Also,

        “And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?” [Al-Qur’an 71:16 translated by Yusuf Ali]

        Tafsir Ibn Kathirn on 71:16-

        (And has made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp)

        Tafsir al Jalalayn on 71:36-

        and made the moon therein — that is to say, within their totality, [but] which is [effectively] true in the case of the heaven of this world — as a light and made the sun as a lamp?, as an illuminating lantern, more powerful than the light of the moon.

        The Glorious Qur’an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

        Who wrote this in Quran 1400 years ago?

        I have used 5 proofs in this post becase if I had given Tafsir of all 10 proves then this post will become buky.I will give Tafsir on other 5 points in my next post.

        Regarding Ayesha(ra) marriage-

        ——–You said “Hadith I gave clearly mentions that Aisha did not reach the age of puberty when he married Muhammad. So everything is settled now”.——-

        I have also told you that the Hadith you had given me is of the time before the marrigae i.e. the time between engagement and the marriage.Between the age of 6 and 9 years.

        ——–You said “Allah and Muhammad seem to be unaware of the fact that any girl is never matured physically and mentally at 9. Starting of puberty is never considered as the age for marriage. “——–

        Starting of puberty is considered as the age for marriage in THIS AGE.But at the time of Prophet(pbuh) it was commom for girls to get married at that age.This was because of the Hot climate of the region that Girls used to get matured earlier.Also,at that time the life span in Arabia used to be less because of widespread diseases and malnutrition in the region.Person who get to the age of 40+ was considered old.

        Aisha’s parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced.The reason no one objected was to the Prophet’s marriage was:

        -People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.
        -Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.

        It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into “women”, then they get married off.

        Thirty years ago, the renowned sexologist R.E.L. Masters and Allan Edwardes said in their study of Afro-Asian sexual expression (_The Cradle of Erotica_, Julian Press, New York:1962) said, “Today, in many parts of North Africa, Arabia, and India, girls are wedded and bedded between the ages of five and nine; and no self-respecting female remains unmarried beyond the age of puberty.”

        Also, the age consent in the US and Europe only 100 years ago for girls’ marriage was as little as 10.

        Their are accounts also that Aisha was already engaged to a non Muslim man named Jober Ibn Al-Moteam Ibn Oday. Back then, the people of Mecca did not object to Aisha’s engagement to Jober because she was physically big enough and tall enough to be considered for marriage. Her parents saw that and they engaged her to Jober. The only reason why Aisha’s father, Abu Baker Al Siddeek, broke her engagement with Jober is because he was a non-Muslim.

        Well, a lot of the things we do today are not right in the eyes of many. Our “standards” today mean nothing to what took place 1400 years ago. Today, anyone under 18 years old is considered a “child”, a baby still under his mommy’s and daddy’s care. Back then on the other hand, people who reached the age of 18 were considered wise and very mature.

        Let me share this Islamic story with you:

        There is a famous Islamic figure called “Osama bin Zayd (or Zaid)”. I was told that this man was once a leader or one of the leaders of the Muslims who met the Roman Christians. He defeated them. He was only 16 to 18 years old.

        So the point is, Aisha, peace be upon her, might look as child to you, but back then she certainly was
        considered as “woman” who was qualified for marriage.

        Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was not a child molester as the haters of Islam claim. He was a Noble Messenger of God. Muhammad peace be upon him lived in a society and culture that existed 1400 years ago, and we must not judge what he or others did based on our standards today. It is wrong and foolish to do so.

        Age of Marriage for Girls according to Hinduism’s Scriptutes-

        1-The mother, and the father, and likewise the eldest brother, all these three relatives will go to hell, if before menstruation they neglect to marry the girl.”

        – ( Institutes of Parasara , Ch 7, verse 6)

        2–“When the twelfth year is reached by the female child, if the guardian does not give her away in marriage, her forefathers drink, without interruption, during each succeeding month, whatever blood is passed in her courses.”

        – ( Institutes of Parasara Ch 7, verse 5)

        3-“A maiden who has attained puberty shall wait for three years. After three years (have passed), she may take a husband of equal caste. Now they quote also (the following verses) : ‘ But if through a father’s negligence a maiden is here given away after the suitable age has passed, she who was waiting (for a husband) destroys him who gives her away, just as the fee which is paid too late to the teacher (destroys the pupil).’ ‘ Out of fear of the appearance of the menses let the father marry his daughter while she still runs about naked. For if she stays (in the house) after the age of puberty, sin falls on the father.’ ‘As often as the courses of a maiden, who is filled with desire, and demanded in marriage by men of equal caste, recur, so often her father and her mother are guilty of (the crime of) slaying an embryo; that is a rule of the sacred law.’”

        -(Vashistha Smriti , Ch XVII, verse 67-71)

        4-“Let him give his daughter, while she still goes naked, to a man who has not broken the vow of chastity and who possesses good qualities, or even to one destitute of good qualities ; let him not keep (the maiden) in (his house) after she has reached the age of puberty. He who does not give away a marriageable daughter during three years doubtlessly contracts a guilt equal to (that of) destroying an embryo. Such will be the case if anybody asks her in marriage, and also if nobody demands her. Manu has declared that at each appearance of the menses (the father incurs the guilt of) a mortal sin.”

        -( Baudhayana Smriti ,Prasna 4, Adhyaya 1, verses 11-13)

        5-“Let no maiden suffer the period of maturity to come on without giving notice of it to her relations. Should they omit to give her in marriage, they would be equal to the murderers of an embryo. He who does not give such a maiden in marriage commits the crime of killing an embryo as many times as her period of menstruation passes by without her having a husband. Therefore a father must give his daughter in marriage once (for all), as soon as the signs of maturity become apparent. (By acting) otherwise he would commit a heavy crime. Such is the rule settled among the virtuous.”

        – (Narada Smriti Book XII Verses 25-27)

        6-“A girl should be given in marriage before (she attains the age of) puberty. He who neglects it, commits sin.Some (declare, that a girl shall be given in Marriage ) before she wears clothes.”

        -(Gautama Smriti,,Chapter XVIII,verses 21-23)

        So, its quite clear from the Shastras that girls are to be married before her Menstruation starts i.e. before her puberty. And to make the case more clear like a crystal let me cite few more verses from the Dharma Shastras.

        7-“ A householder shall take a wife (of) equal (caste), who has not belonged to another man and is younger (than himself).”[- ( Gautama Samhita, Ch IV. Verse 1,)[

        Regarding Rehana-

        You had not given your views on the information which I provided you in my previous post on this issue.

        Waiting for your logicall response.
        Thanks
        Abdullah

      • Vajra

        I have done a typing mistake in my previous post in one para.So,I am clearing it.

        ——–You said “Allah and Muhammad seem to be unaware of the fact that any girl is never matured physically and mentally at 9. Starting of puberty is never considered as the age for marriage. “——–

        Starting of puberty is NOT considered as the age for marriage in THIS AGE.But at the time of Prophet(pbuh) it was commom for girls to get married at that age.This was because of the Hot climate of the region that Girls used to get matured earlier.Also,at that time the life span in Arabia used to be less because of widespread diseases and malnutrition in the region.Person who get to the age of 40+ was considered old.

        Hope you will understand.

    • Brother Abdullah,

      Can you please explain how Islam entered the subcontinent. Obviosuly, there is no point arguing with people like yourself regarding the verses in Quran because the infidel or non-muslim I mean will always be mis-quoted, received a bad translation, not sufficient in Arabic etc. Please answer these simple questions regarding your faith, please:

      1) In what manner did Islam arrive in the subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc)?
      2) Why is the Pāriyātra Parvata (पारियात्र पर्वत) mountain range known widely as Hindu Kush now?
      3) Why are the Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own country?
      4) What is the penalty for leaving Islam according to the Quran/Hadiths?
      5) Why is it sanctioned to tax infidels ie. non-believers as per the Quran? (Chapter 9, Verse 29; translated by Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD http://www.submission.org)
      6) Why is it not allowed to propagate other religions in Islamic countries?

      These are the tough questions Muslims need to answer. And there are many more. Answer these with accordance to the Quran as the Quran IS the word of God right? Don’t give your own answer that you would like it to be.

      Salkia
      thesamsaara.blogspot.com

      • Dear Salkia

        Please tell me what Islam is to do with how Muslims rulers entire subcontinet.
        I can answer quesion related to Islamic Faith.Not history of Subcontinent.

        Your question-

        1) In what manner did Islam arrive in the subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc)?
        Answers- Again I will reply same as what Islam is to do with how Muslims rules entire subcontinet..
        If they had entered by bad means then I am fully against them.

        2) Why is the Pāriyātra Parvata (पारियात्र पर्वत) mountain range known widely as Hindu Kush now?
        Answer- Again this question is not about Islam.

        3) Why are the Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own country?
        Answer-These are political things.Also can you tell me why Palestine and Israel Muslims are refuge in their own country.Why after Gujrat roits thousands of Muslim was living in refugees camp for years.Please note that communal tensions occurs in every country it does not mean that Islam or Hinduism or any religion is responsible for this.

        Please also note that I am a proud citizen of my country India and I love my country.

        4) What is the penalty for leaving Islam according to the Quran/Hadiths?
        Answer- There is no penalty on leaving Islam.But if after leaving Islam someone spread falsehood against Islam then there is penalty.
        And also the leaving rate of Islam is much lower then any religion because after finding the trur religion of One God no one leaves it.

        Quran clearly says – in Surah 2:256-” There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient. ”

        5) Why is it sanctioned to tax infidels ie. non-believers as per the Quran?
        Answer-
        By the time 9:29 was revealed Zakat on all Muslims had become obligatory for those who had enough wealth to levy this “wealth purifying tax”. Zakat may be translated as wealth purifying tax or growth tax because the payment of Zakat makes wealth grow.
        Muslims were already paying Zakat, in addition to Sadaqa (charity) and Infaq (required donations), for various causes but there was no such tax on non-Muslims. The verse 9:29 makes tax obligatory upon all non-Muslims except the clergy, very old and poor without adequate income.

        Jizyah was a tax much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service. This is the reason Jizyah has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims). Payment of Jizyah is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued. This is the same as the taxes all Americans have to pay.

        e.g. All peoples who have good income in India has to pay equal tax. Similarly all living in Islamic state has to pay tax i.e. Muslims has to pay Zakat tax and Non-Muslims has to pay Jizyah tax.And as mentioned above Jizyah is much lower tax than Zakat.

        6) Why is it not allowed to propagate other religions in Islamic countries?
        Answer-Before reading answer please note that Islam did not say to distroy the temples or place of worship of others in Islamic state.Non-Muslims can live in Islamic states and can practice there religion freely.

        Now answer-

        1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

        Suppose you are a principal of a school and you have to select a Mathematics teacher. It is obvious that you will interview the candidates. If one teacher says that 2 + 2 = 3, the other says 2 + 2 = 4 and the third says 2 + 2 = 5 whom will you select? Since you know mathematics is logical, you will never select or allow a person to teach mathematics who doesn’t even know the basics of arithmetic that 2 + 2 = 4.

        2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

        Similarly in the field of religion, Muslims are the best and Qur’an clearly mentions in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, verse 19 (3:19):

        “The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will)”. [Al-Qur’an 3:19]

        It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85)

        “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Al-Qur’an 3:85]

        3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

        There is no other religious scripture on the face of the earth besides the Qur’an which says that only its religion is true, correct and acceptable to Almighty God, and that all the other religions are false and hence not acceptable to Almighty God.

        If you are a school principal who knows Maths, you will never allow a person to teach Maths in your school who does not know Maths. Similarly Muslims, who are experts in the field of religion and know that Islam is the only true religion, will not allow anyone in any Islamic country to preach any other religion besides Islam.

        I hope you got your misconceptions cleared.

        For more question please write back.

        Thanks
        Abdullah
        [email protected]

    • Dear Brother Abdullah,

      I’m sorry to say my misconceptions have been far from cleared and my respect for you has further dimished. The questions I asked you can easily be answered by this quote from the Quran:

      [47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

      In other words, Quran sanctions holy wars. All these invasions by Muslims occured because the Quran somehow allowed it. You have to see, the messages in the Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear. There are tonnes of these quotes, I’m sure you didn’t bother to check http://www.faithfreedom.org. You are just another brainwashed Muslim. If I don’t beleive Mohammed is the last prophet and if I don’t beleive the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then what I am according to Quran? I am Kufr, Kafir etc. and according to Quran there should be no love for me – tax, behead, kill me – it’s all allowed.

      Nevertheless, I will still try to answer your questions:

      1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

      1) Instead of quoting Quranic verses, you are just making stupid examples – and sadly it wasn’t even your own example but the example of the biggest fraud on earth: Zakir Naik. He made these remarks in Pakistan – I wonder how Indians would have reacted if he had the guts to make them in India? The knowledge of Vedas and Bhagvad Gita is far more superior though. I am not going to declare them the word of God but simple fact: Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology beleives the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve. Now depending on the LEVEL of maths I would wish to pursue, the choices are pretty obvious.

      2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

      2) What you mean experts in religion? How do you professionalise something that is supposed to be very personal? It is like declaring to be an expert in breathing – oh wait, Yoga. But I’m sure praying 5 times a day facing Mecca cures many ailments. Definately, you must be experts but then I’m sure your talking about the Ahmediyas? Or the Sunnis? Or was it the Shites that are profound? Again: All muslim countries are burning. Your probably thinking the Gulf states are great, but how much of their economy can be accredited to their national expertise and not their national resources? What is so Muslim about Dubai? You have a mosque on one side while hearing the beats from a nightclub on the other? You have alcahol everywhere. Experts you are not, and declaring Islam as expertise in religion just enhances my point about intolerance, ignoranace and arrogance in the Islamic teaching towards other religions. There is no point quoting the Quran to make your argument for this question. It’s like using the national anthem of a country to argue for how great that country is…

      3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

      Well, if you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just becuase it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Mohammed really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s death. And furthermore, your mentor/teacher/Guru Zakir Naik always seem to take analogies and example to show SIMILARITIES from our texts and the Quran?

      Once Muslims get this out of their head that Quran should be taken literally word for word that it is PERFECT, only then there will be true harmony. It was appauling and absolutely ignorant and above all baseless to claim Quran is ulitmate for every word.

      Salkia

      • Reply to Salkiaa

        Dear Salkia

        Your misconception are not cleared because you did not want them to be cleared.
        I respect you but it does not matter to me that you respect me or not.

        Now lets look at the verse you quoted-
        47:4
        If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

        Answer- As it is written clearly in this verse that when you meet unbelievers in FIGHT then kill them.Now let me ask you a question that if there are two armies fighting at border.What will the commander would tell his soldiers?. 100% the commander will say that if you want to win a war then kill your enemies.This is what Allah says in this verse.

        But the verse continue that after the war if you have some captives then set them FREE or RANSOM(to obtain the release of by paying a certain price) them.In the days of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) the captives of the wars were killed after the war ends. But Muhammad(pbuh) told his soldiers to free the captives or to take ransom money from them and free them.So it clearly shows that they were not forced to accept Islam by force.

        Question- Quran allow Holy Wars and all these invasions occurs because Quran somehow allowed them it.

        Answer-Quran does not allow Holy Wars. Quran allows a Muslim to fight in his defence.If someone attacks Muslims then he should fight his enemies.Muslims are allowed to do peace treaty with Non-Muslim.But if Non-Muslims brokes the treaty then Muslims can fight then.But in the time of peace treaty no Muslim can kill any Non-Muslim.

        You said that all invasions in subcontinent or anywhere by Muslim rulers occur because Quran.If it is correct then please tell me that is invasion of India and other colonies by British was because of BIBLE.

        In Medieval period every ruler tried to expand its kingdom.If ruler is powerful then he can expand his kingdom.Same was done by Mughals.Same was done by Alexander the Great much prior to Mughals.
        So your argument of blaming Quran for such invasions is invalid.

        Question 2-The Message of Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear.

        Answer-Yes, message is very clear that Non-believers should accept that there is only One God and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his last and final messenger.

        If they don’t believe then it is there fault and Muslims are not responsible for it.And Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.As Allah says in the Surah 109-

        “Say : O ye that reject Faith!
        I worship not that which ye worship,
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        To you be your way, and to me mine. ”

        So Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.

        But if Non-Muslims wants to fight then a Muslims has to fight in there self-defence.

        You says that you can give many quotes from Quran that encourages fight.But you should check that after every verse about fighting there is a verse which said that Peace is better then Fighting.

        I am not brainwashed Muslim.But for sure you are brainwashed Anti-Muslim

        Yes,If you don’t beleive Muhammad is the last prophet and you don’t believe the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then you are Kafir(Non-Believer) according to Quran.But Quran did not allow to kill or behead you.As in the above quoted Surah ‘To you be your way, and to me mine’.Quarn only allow to kill Kafir in Battle Field.

        Yes if Non-Muslims live in Islamic state they had to give Jizya Tax.It is because for example anybody who lives in India and has good income has to give a tax.Whether he is Muslim,Hindu or Christain etc.Similarly in Islamic state everybody has to give a tax Muslims has to give Zakaat Tax and Non-Muslims has to give Jizya Tax.So what is the problem.And I must tell you that Jizya Tax is much lower then the Zakaat Tax.

        Now your other Questions-

        Question 3- Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve.

        Answer-Where do you find that Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat.
        Instead Allah Almighty says in Quran that He made the earth as an egg. We all know today that earth is spherical and science did confirm that the earth is indeed egg-shaped.

        Also where do you find that earth is around 4-6000 years old in Quran.

        And let me inform you that Universe is not infinite nor eternal because today science tells us that Universe has its beginning and also has its End.

        Question 2-All Muslim countries are burning.

        Answer- First of all you cannot judge Islam by looking what today Muslims are doing.If you want to judge Islam then you have to look at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

        Let me also inform you that in Muslims there are much less castes then other religions.I don’t know more then 10 or at highest 15 castes in Muslims.But in Christains there are hundreds of castes in denomination and they have there own churches.In Hindus there are thousands of castes and each has its own God.

        But in Muslims maybe there would be some castes but the basics are same that ‘There is not God but Allah and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his messenger’.I have not come across a single Muslim which says there in more then one God or says that Muhammad(pbuh) is God.

        Also i agree that some Muslims drink alcohol.But if taken as a whole then Muslim community has the lowest rate of Alcohol consumption then any other religious group in world.

        Question 3- If you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just because it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Muhammad really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s’s death.

        Answer-For a book or text claiming to be from God it should not have any scientific errors,contradictions,mistakes.
        Now days Torah(Old Testament) and Bible(Old+New Testament) both has major scientific errors and various contradictions.
        But for, Quran it doest not have a single scientific error, not a single contradiction.

        So you can easily prove that Quran is God’s Word.

        For your kind information Mohammad(pbuh) has never seen God.

        Quran was not written 20 years after Muhammad(pbuh) .
        After his death there were different dialect or ways of reading Quran as England English and USA English has different dialect or ways of pronunciation.
        So to stop any dispute in future about which dialect is correct the Caliph of that time collected all dialect of Quran in one place and choose only one dialect which was real and burn all others.
        So the contents of Quran always remains same.

        A true Muslim believes that every word of Quran is from God and it should be followed.And after only following it their can be peace and harmony.

        Hope misconceptions are cleared.
        For more question please write back.

        Thanks
        Abdulah
        [email protected]

      • @ Abdullah

        1) is your Allah powerless that he was his Islamic followers to commit murders for him ? if he wanted all non belivers to die , think it far simpler for him to kill

        2) how come non-belivers still form the majority of world and have better lifestyles and guess what Allah keeps giving them children to continue generations of non-belivers? so Allah deliberately wants to give oppurtunities to Islamic followers to kill?

      • @ Pradeep

        1) Allah is not powerless.He is most powerful.Allah did not tell his followers to commit murder for him.He only says to fight unbelievers in battlefield.Allah did not want all unbelivers to die but he wants all unbeliever to come to the only true religion of humamity Islam.

        2)There are majority of Non-Belivers because majority of people did not want to live according to God they want to follow their way against the way of God.

        How can you say that Non-Believers has better life styles then Believers.
        Now,the countries which are most richest,developing economy and have rich oil sources are of Believers e.g.Gulf states like Abu Dhabi,Dubai,,Kuyat etc and Iran.

      • fight the unbelivers but do not murder? what non sense are you talking abdullah? worlds 80% economy is from non Gulf state what crap stats are you talking… if the english had not invented engines , your gulf state would have drunk oil? so the credit again goes for the non beliver for your entire belivers countries economy….Majority of the inventors of the world are non belivers , infact you writing on internet with the help of a computer is because of a non beliver…. another fact for you is your deobandi mullahs have already issued fatwa against computer and internet….so you using it is actually going against Islam and will accompany us to Hell…. instead of becoming part of madness come back to your roots when innovation and betterment of life is part of the belief…. love and let live all (humans , animal complete eco -system) is part of the religion…. when you have to make a choice of becoming advocate a murder in the name of religion vs a religion which is truely universal , applies to all living beings…… i would choose the universal religion

    • @ mr abdullah:

      Well if everything was to be so simple in this universe than foolish were the man named Albert Einstien or Newton to hav devised such complex theories and equations about working of this universe.
      Ever heard about Vedic Mathematics?? no?? well its something Quran authors didnt have time to think about because they were so busy running after Mohammad penning down his stupid thoughts.
      beleieve me simple isnt always the best.. its sometimes called stupidity with no sense at all.
      Muslims were always illterate and will always be, no matter how higher they are educated.

      • @haha:

        list of muslim scientist

        The list is meaningless unless you can prove that it was their *Muslimness* and *Muslimness* alone that led them to great inventions/discoveries. Until then you are guilty of committing the false attribution error. That is, prove that their discoveries/inventions were because of belief in “La Ilaha Il Allah Mohammed Rasool Allah”.

        Here is another challenge to keep you busy.

      • @KalBhairav

        hypocrites like you will neva change wat to do? knowledge belongs to everyone not
        only stick to one community. its human nature to discover when they are curious & human mind to be religious. Give me proof wat you have done to contribute to society that you are so
        proud of 😉

      • this guy below is from your country u claim him to be illiterate and being selected for
        president. & considered missile men for india haha…. i wonder how @ ur MPs dude. 😀

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Kalam

        This article is about the former President of India. For the freedom fighter, see Abul Kalam Azad.
        Avul Pakir Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalam
        அவுல் பகீர் ஜைனுலாப்தீன் அப்துல் கலாம்

        Abdul Kalam at the 12th Wharton India Economic Forum, 2008.
        President of India
        In office
        25 July 2002 – 24 July 2007
        Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee
        Manmohan Singh
        Vice President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat
        Preceded by Kocheril Raman Narayanan
        Succeeded by Pratibha Patil
        Born 15 October 1931 (age 79)
        Rameswaram, British Raj (now India)
        Political party Independent
        Alma mater St. Joseph’s College, Tiruchirappalli
        Madras Institute of Technology
        Profession Aerospace engineer
        Religion Islam

        Bharat Ratna Avul Pakir Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalam (Tamil: அவுல் பகீர் ஜைனுலாப்தீன் அப்துல் கலாம்) usually referred to as A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, was the 11th President of India who served from 2002 to 2007.[1] During his term as President, he was popularly known as the People’s President.[2][3]

        Before his term as India’s president, he worked as an aeronautical engineer with DRDO and ISRO. He is popularly known as the Missile Man of India for his work on development of ballistic missile and space rocket technology.[4] Kalam played a pivotal organizational, technical and political role in India’s Pokhran-II nuclear test in 1998, the first since the original nuclear test by India in 1974.[5]

    • Dear Salkia

      Please tell me what Islam is to do with how Muslims rulers entire subcontinet.
      I can answer quesion related to Islamic Faith.Not history of Subcontinent.

      Your question-

      1) In what manner did Islam arrive in the subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc)?
      Answers- Again I will reply same as what Islam is to do with how Muslims rules entire subcontinet..
      If they had entered by bad means then I am fully against them.

      2) Why is the Pāriyātra Parvata (पारियात्र पर्वत) mountain range known widely as Hindu Kush now?
      Answer- Again this question is not about Islam.

      3) Why are the Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own country?
      Answer-These are political things.Also can you tell me why Palestine and Israel Muslims are refuge in their own country.Why after Gujrat roits thousands of Muslim was living in refugees camp for years.Please note that communal tensions occurs in every country it does not mean that Islam or Hinduism or any religion is responsible for this.

      Please also note that I am a proud citizen of my country India and I love my country.

      4) What is the penalty for leaving Islam according to the Quran/Hadiths?
      Answer- There is no penalty on leaving Islam.But if after leaving Islam someone spread falsehood against Islam then there is penalty.
      And also the leaving rate of Islam is much lower then any religion because after finding the trur religion of One God no one leaves it.

      Quran clearly says – in Surah 2:256-” There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient. ”

      5) Why is it sanctioned to tax infidels ie. non-believers as per the Quran?
      Answer-
      By the time 9:29 was revealed Zakat on all Muslims had become obligatory for those who had enough wealth to levy this “wealth purifying tax”. Zakat may be translated as wealth purifying tax or growth tax because the payment of Zakat makes wealth grow.
      Muslims were already paying Zakat, in addition to Sadaqa (charity) and Infaq (required donations), for various causes but there was no such tax on non-Muslims. The verse 9:29 makes tax obligatory upon all non-Muslims except the clergy, very old and poor without adequate income.

      Jizyah was a tax much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service. This is the reason Jizyah has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims). Payment of Jizyah is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued. This is the same as the taxes all Americans have to pay.

      e.g. All peoples who have good income in India has to pay equal tax. Similarly all living in Islamic state has to pay tax i.e. Muslims has to pay Zakat tax and Non-Muslims has to pay Jizyah tax.And as mentioned above Jizyah is much lower tax than Zakat.

      6) Why is it not allowed to propagate other religions in Islamic countries?
      Answer-Before reading answer please note that Islam did not say to distroy the temples or place of worship of others in Islamic state.Non-Muslims can live in Islamic states and can practice there religion freely.

      Now answer-

      1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

      Suppose you are a principal of a school and you have to select a Mathematics teacher. It is obvious that you will interview the candidates. If one teacher says that 2 + 2 = 3, the other says 2 + 2 = 4 and the third says 2 + 2 = 5 whom will you select? Since you know mathematics is logical, you will never select or allow a person to teach mathematics who doesn’t even know the basics of arithmetic that 2 + 2 = 4.

      2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

      Similarly in the field of religion, Muslims are the best and Qur’an clearly mentions in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, verse 19 (3:19):

      “The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will)”. [Al-Qur’an 3:19]

      It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85)

      “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Al-Qur’an 3:85]

      3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

      There is no other religious scripture on the face of the earth besides the Qur’an which says that only its religion is true, correct and acceptable to Almighty God, and that all the other religions are false and hence not acceptable to Almighty God.

      If you are a school principal who knows Maths, you will never allow a person to teach Maths in your school who does not know Maths. Similarly Muslims, who are experts in the field of religion and know that Islam is the only true religion, will not allow anyone in any Islamic country to preach any other religion besides Islam.

      I hope you got your misconceptions cleared.

      For more question please write back.

      Thanks
      Abdullah

      • Dear Brother Abdullah,

        I’m sorry to say my misconceptions have been far from cleared and my respect for you has further dimished. The questions I asked you can easily be answered by this quote from the Quran:

        [47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

        In other words, Quran sanctions holy wars. All these invasions by Muslims occured because the Quran somehow allowed it. You have to see, the messages in the Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear. There are tonnes of these quotes, I’m sure you didn’t bother to check http://www.faithfreedom.org. You are just another brainwashed Muslim. If I don’t beleive Mohammed is the last prophet and if I don’t beleive the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then what I am according to Quran? I am Kufr, Kafir etc. and according to Quran there should be no love for me – tax, behead, kill me – it’s all allowed.

        Nevertheless, I will still try to answer your questions:

        1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

        1) Instead of quoting Quranic verses, you are just making stupid examples – and sadly it wasn’t even your own example but the example of the biggest fraud on earth: Zakir Naik. He made these remarks in Pakistan – I wonder how Indians would have reacted if he had the guts to make them in India? The knowledge of Vedas and Bhagvad Gita is far more superior though. I am not going to declare them the word of God but simple fact: Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology beleives the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve. Now depending on the LEVEL of maths I would wish to pursue, the choices are pretty obvious.

        2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

        2) What you mean experts in religion? How do you professionalise something that is supposed to be very personal? It is like declaring to be an expert in breathing – oh wait, Yoga. But I’m sure praying 5 times a day facing Mecca cures many ailments. Definately, you must be experts but then I’m sure your talking about the Ahmediyas? Or the Sunnis? Or was it the Shites that are profound? Again: All muslim countries are burning. Your probably thinking the Gulf states are great, but how much of their economy can be accredited to their national expertise and not their national resources? What is so Muslim about Dubai? You have a mosque on one side while hearing the beats from a nightclub on the other? You have alcahol everywhere. Experts you are not, and declaring Islam as expertise in religion just enhances my point about intolerance, ignoranace and arrogance in the Islamic teaching towards other religions. There is no point quoting the Quran to make your argument for this question. It’s like using the national anthem of a country to argue for how great that country is…

        3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

        Well, if you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just becuase it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Mohammed really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s death. And furthermore, your mentor/teacher/Guru Zakir Naik always seem to take analogies and example to show SIMILARITIES from our texts and the Quran?

        Once Muslims get this out of their head that Quran should be taken literally word for word that it is PERFECT, only then there will be true harmony. It was appauling and absolutely ignorant and above all baseless to claim Quran is ulitmate for every word.

        Salkia

      • Dear Salkia

        Your misconception are not cleared because you did not want them to be cleared.
        I respect you but it does not matter to me that you respect me or not.

        Now lets look at the verse you quoted-
        47:4
        If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

        Answer- As it is written clearly in this verse that when you meet unbelievers in FIGHT then kill them.Now let me ask you a question that if there are two armies fighting at border.What will the commander would tell his soldiers?. 100% the commander will say that if you want to win a war then kill your enemies.This is what Allah says in this verse.

        But the verse continue that after the war if you have some captives then set them FREE or RANSOM(to obtain the release of by paying a certain price) them.In the days of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) the captives of the wars were killed after the war ends. But Muhammad(pbuh) told his soldiers to free the captives or to take ransom money from them and free them.So it clearly shows that they were not forced to accept Islam by force.

        Question- Quran allow Holy Wars and all these invasions occurs because Quran somehow allowed them it.

        Answer-Quran does not allow Holy Wars. Quran allows a Muslim to fight in his defence.If someone attacks Muslims then he should fight his enemies.Muslims are allowed to do peace treaty with Non-Muslim.But if Non-Muslims brokes the treaty then Muslims can fight then.But in the time of peace treaty no Muslim can kill any Non-Muslim.

        You said that all invasions in subcontinent or anywhere by Muslim rulers occur because Quran.If it is correct then please tell me that is invasion of India and other colonies by British was because of BIBLE.

        In Medieval period every ruler tried to expand its kingdom.If ruler is powerful then he can expand his kingdom.Same was done by Mughals.Same was done by Alexander the Great much prior to Mughals.
        So your argument of blaming Quran for such invasions is invalid.

        Question 2-The Message of Quran regarding non-Muslims is very clear.

        Answer-Yes, message is very clear that Non-believers should accept that there is only One God and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his last and final messenger.

        If they don’t believe then it is there fault and Muslims are not responsible for it.And Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.As Allah says in the Surah 109-

        “Say : O ye that reject Faith!
        I worship not that which ye worship,
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
        Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
        To you be your way, and to me mine. ”

        So Muslim cannot force anybody to accept Islam.

        But if Non-Muslims wants to fight then a Muslims has to fight in there self-defence.

        You says that you can give many quotes from Quran that encourages fight.But you should check that after every verse about fighting there is a verse which said that Peace is better then Fighting.

        I am not brainwashed Muslim.But for sure you are brainwashed Anti-Muslim

        Yes,If you don’t beleive Muhammad is the last prophet and you don’t believe the Quran is the last and final word of God (Allah) then you are Kafir(Non-Believer) according to Quran.But Quran did not allow to kill or behead you.As in the above quoted Surah ‘To you be your way, and to me mine’.Quarn only allow to kill Kafir in Battle Field.

        Yes if Non-Muslims live in Islamic state they had to give Jizya Tax.It is because for example anybody who lives in India and has good income has to give a tax.Whether he is Muslim,Hindu or Christain etc.Similarly in Islamic state everybody has to give a tax Muslims has to give Zakaat Tax and Non-Muslims has to give Jizya Tax.So what is the problem.And I must tell you that Jizya Tax is much lower then the Zakaat Tax.

        Now your other Questions-

        Question 3- Hindu cosmology believes universe is infinite and that EACH universe has a life of around 314 trillion years whilst Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat, is around 4-6000 years old and it all started with Adam and Eve.

        Answer-Where do you find that Islamic cosmology believes the Earth is flat.
        Instead Allah Almighty says in Quran that He made the earth as an egg. We all know today that earth is spherical and science did confirm that the earth is indeed egg-shaped.

        Also where do you find that earth is around 4-6000 years old in Quran.

        And let me inform you that Universe is not infinite nor eternal because today science tells us that Universe has its beginning and also has its End.

        Question 2-All Muslim countries are burning.

        Answer- First of all you cannot judge Islam by looking what today Muslims are doing.If you want to judge Islam then you have to look at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

        Let me also inform you that in Muslims there are much less castes then other religions.I don’t know more then 10 or at highest 15 castes in Muslims.But in Christains there are hundreds of castes in denomination and they have there own churches.In Hindus there are thousands of castes and each has its own God.

        But in Muslims maybe there would be some castes but the basics are same that ‘There is not God but Allah and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is his messenger’.I have not come across a single Muslim which says there in more then one God or says that Muhammad(pbuh) is God.

        Also i agree that some Muslims drink alcohol.But if taken as a whole then Muslim community has the lowest rate of Alcohol consumption then any other religious group in world.

        Question 3- If you ask Jews the same question they will claim the Torah being their supreme text as revealed by Moses. The Bible for Christians etc. Just because it is written in the Quran that it is holy, doesn’t make it holy. What proof do you have that Muhammad really saw God? Some people claim the Quran was written 20 years after Mohammed’s’s death.

        Answer-For a book or text claiming to be from God it should not have any scientific errors,contradictions,mistakes.
        Now days Torah(Old Testament) and Bible(Old+New Testament) both has major scientific errors and various contradictions.
        But for, Quran it doest not have a single scientific error, not a single contradiction.

        So you can easily prove that Quran is God’s Word.

        For your kind information Mohammad(pbuh) has never seen God.

        Quran was not written 20 years after Muhammad(pbuh) .
        After his death there were different dialect or ways of reading Quran as England English and USA English has different dialect or ways of pronunciation.
        So to stop any dispute in future about which dialect is correct the Caliph of that time collected all dialect of Quran in one place and choose only one dialect which was real and burn all others.
        So the contents of Quran always remains same.

        A true Muslim believes that every word of Quran is from God and it should be followed.And after only following it their can be peace and harmony.

        Hope misconceptions are cleared.
        For more question please write back.

        Thanks
        Abdulah
        [email protected]

      • Oh Salika, Why are talking Kid Stuff.. Did RAM played Table teniss with Ravan when he went to Lanka or did he kill the Lankan army? In Mahabaratha were Pandavas playing ringa ringa roses with there enemy are did they fight and kill. So based on your argument you guys preach holy war as well.. to fight against evil. Evil is in this context one who is suppresing people. So if you ask me about Mughal kings they were no were islamic .. They were just name sake muslims.

    • Opss…. The Article about Rebirt in Islam is removed.. May be author had to do correction add some more false interpertation..lol kids

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