This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/3897/test-of-secularism-hi/
We live in a secular country. And indeed secularism is one of the most noble concepts of humanity – that no policy, system, process or mindset shall be influenced by any cult or notions about religion. The entire concept of secularism is based on the precept of ’communal harmony’. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was a great supporter of ‘communal harmony’. He popularized the bhajan ‘Ishwar Allah Tero Naam’ which means that Ishwar and Allah are same. The communally harmonious and secular people of his era used to sing this melodious song in all temples and the trend continues till today. I still recall how we grew up singing this song in school and all public gatherings.
Forces like VHP, RSS and Arya Samaj are often alleged to be fanatic, rightist and hell-bent on destroying ‘communal harmony’. The intelligentsia of the country and world is thoroughly worried with growth of these fundamentalist forces in recent times and how it is disrupting peace and harmony in the sub-continent. Whenever there is a terrorist attack, these fundamentalist forces would term it as Islamic terror and then the secular media has to spend lots of efforts and energies to explain that terrorism has no religion. It has to come up with videos and films of nice Muslims and bad Hindus to compensate for the wrong notions regarding Muslims. It has to blow out of proportion cases like petty bomb-blasts in Malegaon where cow-slaughter is a rampant practice. And then the entire state machinery gears up to catch hold of some rightist forces allegedly behind these attacks.
Its a different matter that some of the larger terrorist attacks are not big enough to awaken the same machinery of state and we keep waiting for Afzal’s sentence for ages. The summary notion that the intellectuals of this country (India) in particular have is that Hindus have become very fundamentalist. They tend to blame all Muslims and specially the clergy for all the terrorism that is happening internationally. It is just a matter of coincidence and conspiracy of western media that most terrorists, terrorist groups or Somalian pirates who come in limelight happen to be Muslim. But the reality is that Hindu terrorism is even more dangerous. And hence curbing this should be number one priority.
We shall evaluate the Hindu and Islamic terrorism and their cause in some of the later posts. But for now, let us propose a very practical solution for all Hindus and Muslims to enhance communal harmony and promote secularism. I am inspired by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi to offer this solution. Those who abide by this solution are true secularists and those who refuse to accept it are the real fundamentalists. Because all I offer is an extension of the Gandhian Ishwar Allah Tero Naam.
So here is the solution cum test of secularism:
1. Let all temples recite verses of Quran on loudspeaker every day after prayers and let all mosques recite verses from Geeta and Vedas.
2. Let all temples and mosques announce through loudspeakers and write on their walls that ‘ Ishwar and Allah are same, Ram and Rahim are same, Geeta and Quran are same, Kashi and Kaba are same’
3. Let there be Yajna/ Havan in mosques and Namaz in temples at same time.
To start the process, let the leading temples and mosques come out for this initiative. Agniveer has already discussed this with leading temples of India to do the same. Let now the Muslims come up with list of mosques like Jama Masjid who agree to this.
Agniveer is ready to put ‘ Ishwar and Allah are same, Ram and Rahim are same, Geeta and Quran are same, Kashi and Kaba are same’ prominently on its website on front page. Let IRF also do the same.
Agniveer is ready to come on stage and bring prominent Hindu leaders who would announce this on stage. Let Zakir Naik, Imam Bukhari and other Islamic scholars also announce this on stage.
Agniveer is ready to pronounce and also have other Hindu scholars pronounce that: “Hindu or non-Hindu, all good people will achieve Swarg/ Heaven”. Let Zakir Naik, Imam Bukhari, Deobandis and other Islamic scholars also proclaim that “Muslim or non-Muslim, all good people will achieve Paradise or Zannat.”
Let us now see who really wants communal harmony. Any organization that refuses to agree to above should be banned for being fundamentalist in interest of communal harmony.
This is the real test of secularism. If indeed Zakir Naik can proclaim the above statements on stage and put on his website, Agniveer shall also do the same on his website and remove all articles against Zakir Naik immediately.
But yes, if Zakir Naik, Bukhari and other representatives of Islam refuse to agree to above and Hindus continue to sing ‘Ishwar Allah Tero Naam’, then there would be no community more foolish than Hindus. Because one who continues to offer milk to a cobra and willingly puts it over his head, believing it to be a spiritual Shesh Naag, deserves to be destroyed. Let Zakir Naik and Bukhari prove that they are indeed Shesh Naag and not ‘Aasteen ka Saanp’ through their actions.
And till these Muslim representatives refuse to pass the above test of secularism, so-called intellectuals have no business to term any Hindu organization or force as fundamentalist or extremist.
Mohandas could convince only the Hindus to sing “Ishwar Allah Tero Naam” in temples and they continue to sing till today. Let this glorious song now reverberate in mosques and IRF shows and bring true communal harmony in country and world.
This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/3897/test-of-secularism-hi/
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About Agniveer
great, this test should definitely be taken!!
perfect sir..
There are 25% good muslims among the world, but they maintain silence over the evil practices being done by others from their community in the name of their religion.
The next 25% muslims just take birth, live their life in ignorance and die without any serious concerns about God and faith.
The other 25% act like good muslims in public life (so called intellectuals and celebrities), maintain friendly relations with Kafirs, try to lure them into their faith with their money / muscle power and/or in the name of love / lust etc, but do practice and give their hidden support to the agenda prescribed in their criminal manual.
The last 25% openly behave like religious radicals / soldiers by declaring war on kafirs, and never feel sorry for attacking, torchoring, killing, robbing, abducting, raping the females belong to people of other faiths etc. They feel that, they are being licenced religiously to do such acts and propogate the same for others among their faith. This lot is dominating, influencing, suppressing and dictating the terms to other 75% lot.
Except a few, most of the governments across the world, political parties, other organisations either maintaing silence about this threat due to fear of their terror attacks or giving open or hidden support in all possible ways to them when it is economically / politically / strategically benefiting them.
Let us initiate a discussion to educate and influence the above lots appropriately to guide them towards the right / peaceful direction.
Muslims are unable to sing even the National Song of Vande Mataram. Then they will not get the 72 virgins.
HELL WITH SECULARISM IT ONLY MEANS JOB LOSS, SLAVERY TO HINDUS.
A Muslim journalist himself has exposed the mentality of Muslims the author of the book “BLACK FRIDAY” who is a Muslim Journalist himself has exposed that it was the MUSLIMS WOMANS who told Dawood to kill innocent Hindus. Kashmirs pandits were butchered by Kashmiri Muslims not a single Mullah or Imam of India condemned it . In Pakistan Karachi (Sind) a Hindu boy named Dinesh drank water from Masjid tap for that whole Hindus of that area were slaughtered this will be our future in India if we continue to lick secularism in India
The PARENTS who lost their daughters to LOVE JIHAD in INDIA and ABROAD should give financial assistance to ARYA SAMAJ, RSS, AND VHP and strengthen their cause of HINDUISM.
101/100….7 star.. to you..
One of my friend’s sister is in the clutch of a Muslim boy , How can I help him
@Bishnu
simple brother, just bring ur friend and his sister, to this site, and make them read all these articles
Send us her contact details through Contact page. We have saved many women from Love Jehad and shall ensure that come what may happen, she will not be a victim of Love Jehad.
Fantastic Post brother .. Continue this great work.. Many foreign countries like UK and other Europian countries have banned Zakkir naik now its time for Bharat to throw out this trash in the Bay of Bengal …
Agni your test for secularism is not complete.
In most of the mosques of Pakistan and Bangladesh cows are culled and the meat is served to people. Let’s see how’s many temples in India permit cow slaughter in their premises. If these temples do not permit such acts then even they are not secular as per your definition.
Secondly, a truly secular country does not recognize religions, hence it should ban any organized conversion movements and groups. If any state allows organized conversion then that State is recognizing religions, which is anti thesis of secular state. However, if a person is insipred by life of Jesus Christ or tenants of Islam, Buddhism etc on his own, then the secular state should give him freedom to practice his or her religion. This process is not to be confused with organized conversion.
Lastly, India is not a secular state. It is a opportunistic state. Perhaps France is the closest state that comes to true secularism.
Van
@Van
Do you know what are you writing? If in mosques, cow is slaughtered, which hearts hindu sentiments, how is it equivalent to the cow slaughtering in a temple, which is again an act against hindus? Dare to think pigs being slaughtered in mosques and then their flesh being distributed among people, that will make this secular test complete.
Hello Agniveer,
It is a commendable effort of yours. To tell you the truth, no one is ever going to accept this challenge as no religion is as great and as tolerant as Hinduism.
Let us do something concrete in the real world.
DOES HUMAN BEING EXIST IN SUN, MOON & OTHER PLANETS ? YES ! According to
Sawami Dayanand, the founder of Arya Samaj writes in his book ‘Satyarth Prakash’ Ch. No. 8 that HUMAN BEING EXIST IN SUN, MOON & OTHER PLANETS !!!???
@Agnichkr
Quran [13:15]-”Whatever beings there are in the heavens and the earth do prostrate themselves to Allah – with good-will or in spite of themselves: so do their shadows in the morning and evenings”
Who are these beings in heavens? Where are these heavens? Where do angels live? Where is throne of Allah? Where does Satan made up of fire live? Where did the flying donkey of Muhammad come from? Answer these first before questioning anything.
Let the wise read the whole topic from Satyarth Prakash and let them decide what is actually written there.
Muslims have been traped very badly in this challenge. Bravo dear Agniveer ji.
But sorry muslims are very adament and brainwashed ppl because of Quran’s teachings. They bring down the debate to the lowest level and then beat you by thier experience.
Dear Ashwini,
I think you are far beyond from real truth,why we are here and what will happen after death,i think you should know ,right?Please save yourself ,i am not saying you should read only quran,but you should read all and decide where you have to go,and its not mean that i want you to make companion to increase the population of muslims but to save yourself from helfire,and one more thing,shaitan challenged god that i will let them go with me in helfire,god said try your best,so he have full authority to do anything,and he is doing his best,but you are responsible for yourself and all these others posted here it is just senceless and too far from truth.The actual why we born.so try your best to save yourself.If you want to know about islam dont see on muslims but see the scriptures.and keep aim on truth,then for sure you will search truth.just traight forwared.bye bye.i think you are maharashtrian.
Ashwini ..you hit it on the head
look at Azim bro and his blind belief
1. He believes ina God that does not have any sense of Justice ! ..This God punishes mankind for all times to come by giving full freedom to Satan to lead them astray ….never does it occur to such minds that how can a JUST God punish mankind and reward Satan for the wrongs which Satan did!!!!!
2. He blindly believes that his God is omnipresent and he also believes in Heaven and hell …..never does it occur to his indoctrinated mind that if Heaven and Hell are TRUE and also if god is OMNIPRESENT ..then the GOD OF QURAN MUST ALSO BE PRESENT IN HELL !!!
3.He also is ignorant of his own religion which states that the fate of every human being is already written in Lohe Mehfooz by his God ..that means nobody has freewill ..and if nobody has freewil then how can the God of quran punish people to hell when he has already written their fayte in his sadistic book !!
God only knows when blind belief will give way to rationality as a rule rather than an exception
I asked one of my muslim friends named Iqubal kaul who told me that his great grant father had converted to islam in Kashmir.———-Iqubal, dont you feelthat your grant grant fathers or mothers
used to celeberate Diwaali,Shivratri and Krisn janamashtami and havans ? This is the answer he gave. Dear Ashwani ji I miss my ancesters and thier cultur still calls me. Sometimes I fluter and ask my father what were the circumstances under which my great grantfather had to convert to islam? My father could reply only that he must have wanted to leave the jahilya (darkness).
After some time I gave him satyaprakash in English .He read it and apriciatedit mildly.And five seven days after that he was not seen and didnt meet me.
What I mean is that the hard kavach has started cracking now from within. We non-muslims shout like Agniveer ( not like fake Agnivesh) go on educating muslims and reminding them thier glorious past of Arya and vedas. Perhaps India may become a HINDU land one day.
Dear Agniveer ji,
Pranam,
i whole heartedly appreciate yours effort in this regard, I express my deep sense of gratitude and sincere thanks personally and also on behalf of all the followers of Glorious Vedic Religion, the Great Sanathana Dharma. Thanking you once again, you have certainly possessed with Tejus of “Agni” and Rajasic nature as “Veer”. May all Hindus possess this noble character and become true Aryans the Great “Krunvantu Vishwamaryam”.
Rebuttal to this Article :
http://truthofhinduism.com/rebuttals/test-of-secularism-by-agniveer/
http://www.quranenglish.com/hadith/Sahih_Bukhari/006.htm this is the example of sexual urge of PROPHET OF ISLAM………. then what can u expect from their followers Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299:
Narrated ‘Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad:
(on the authority of his father) ‘Aisha said: “Whenever Allah’s Apostle wanted to fondle anyone of us during her periods (menses), he used to order her to put on an Izar and start fondling her.” ‘Aisha added, “None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could.” SAHIH AL BUKHARi
Once a HINDU GUY saved a little boy from ferocious Mad Dog by killing it. One Media Guy who saw this praised him and said if your are a Muslim Guy tomorrow’s newspaper I will write a Kind Muslim saved a Boy from a mad dog, he said he is not a Muslim then media person asked if your are not a Muslim then you must be a christian then I will write a Brave Christian saved a little Boy from Mad dog but the Guy then said to the Media Person that he is neither Muslim or Christian but a HINDU. The media person said nothing and went away and next day’s newspaper he wrote Hindu Fanatic Kills a poor little dog. THIS IS THE REAL ATTITUDE OF OUR SICKULAR MEDIA
Very well said!!
Mughalistan (or Mughalstan) is the name of an independent homeland proposed for the Muslims of India. This Mughal-Muslim state in the Indian subcontinent will include all of North India and Eastern India, and will be formed by merging Pakistan and Bangladesh through a large corridor of land running across the Indo-Gangetic plain, the heartland of India. This Mughalistan corridor will comprise Muslim-majority areas of Northern India and eastern India that will be partitioned for the second time in history.
The comprehensive plan for a second partition of India was first developed by the Mughalstan Research Institute (MRI) of Jahangir Nagar University (Bangladesh) under the patronage of the two intelligence agencies, Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Bangladesh’s Director General of Forces Intelligence, DGFI. The “Mughalistan Reaserch Institute of Bangladesh” has released a map where a Muslim corridor named “Mughalistan” connects Pakistan and Bangladesh via India.
The Pakistani Punjabi-dominated ISI’s influence on MRI is evident even in the Punjabi-centric pronunciation of the word ‘Mughalstan’ (without the “i”), instead of the typical Urdu pronunciation (Mughalistan). Islamic Jihadis in India have been well-armed and well-funded by the neighbouring Islamic regimes, as part of Operation Topac – the late Pakistani President Zia-ul-Haq’s grandiose plot to balkanize India.
Not surprisingly, Osama Bin Laden has thrown his support behind the concept and creation of this Greater Pakistan to “liberate” the Muslims of India from the Hindus. The Mumbai underworld (led by Karachi-based don Dawood Ibrahim who executed the gruesome 1993 Mumbai bombings), Jamaat-e-Islami, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen have declared their unified support for creating this undivided Islamic nation in the Indian subcontinent. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) and Indian Mujahideen are working in tandem with the aforementioned organizations to waged Jihad against the Hindus of India.
It is important to note that in its “holy war” against India, the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba has openly declared Hindus to be the “enemies of Islam” who should all be converted or killed. The Lashkar-e-Tayyaba group has repeatedly claimed through its journals and websites that its main aim is to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism. Jaish-e-Mohammed has vowed to “liberate” not just Kashmir, but also to hoist the Islamic flag atop the historic Red Fort after capturing New Delhi and the rest of India.
SIMI has championed the “liberation of India through Islam” and aim to restore the supremacy of Islam through the resurrection of the Khilafat (Islamic Caliphate), emphasis on the Muslim Ummah (Islamic) and the waging of Jihad on the Indian state, secularism, democracy and nationalism – the basic keystones of the Indian Constitution – as these concepts are antithetical to Islam. The Indian Mujahideen have sent several emails claiming responsibility for several bombings in Lucknow, Varanasi and Faizabad (in Uttar Pradesh), Bangalore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and New Delhi in 2007 and 2008. The emails refer to notorious Islamic conquerors of India (Mohammed bin Qasim, Mohammad Ghauri and Mahmud Ghaznawi) as their role-models, refer to Hindu blood as “blood to be the cheapest of all mankind” and taunt Hindus that their “[Hindu] history is full of subjugation, humiliation, and insult [at the hands of Islamic conquerors]“.
The Indian Mujahideen’s emails warn the Hindus to “Accept Islam and save yourselves” and or else face a horrible fate: – “Hindus! O disbelieving faithless Indians! Haven’t you still realized that the falsehood of your 33 crore dirty mud idols and the blasphemy of your deaf, dumb, mute and naked idols of ram, krishna and hanuman are not at all going to save your necks, Insha-Allah, from being slaughtered by our [Muslim] hands?”
MUSLIMS have been given separate country then why are they allowed to live in Hindustan. Even in India Muslim Majority areas like Kashmir and christian majority areas like Nagaland and Mizoram Hindus cannot buy land, so why are Muslims allowed in Hindu Majority areas, and why are they allowed to buy land here. Along with Kashmir these Muslims should be chased out of our country.
@Damini
It’s not the common muslims (apart from those at J&K) who want all of these by themselves ..its a brand of Islam that forces them to become anti to their own national good ..because that brand of islam does not believe in democracy pr nationhood ..they have no respect for the motherland
The indian christian missions are not that violent as are the foreign funded missons that operate in tribal areas and north east (and some parts of goa)
The government is dumb when it does not understand what Mehbboba Mufti is talking about ias reagrds kashmir ..what the government does not understand(or is hiding) is that the sunni cleric gilani wants to establish Nizam-e-Mustafa in J&K and that is why they don;t want to be associated with India which is a dar-ul-harb(nation not fit for islam and by that virtue an enemy of islam)
These kasmiris were forcefully converted to Islam in history ..ironaically ..they now stand to disintegrate their own motherland ..that is what Islam has given to us in short
having said that ..i would ask you to see the muslims of India as Indians first (some of them don;t see themselves otherwise but they have to be sensitized intellectually and not with hatred but with reason , they are our brothers who landed up where they are because we as a nation could not collectively defend ourselves from the foreign onslaught) …and as indian they have every right on India, it’s culture and it’s core philosophy : the vedas
I hope you will concur with me
Brother your thought are nice but you yourself saw these muslims are not ready to accept anything wrong in their religion even after giving facts till now muslims have not accepted 9/11 as their handiwork so how will they change, the good muslims your talking about are sufis and bohres whom most of the muslim in the islamic countries does not consider as muslims, we have no problems with these types of muslims, but now even these muslims are being influenced by wahab and deobandi ideologies and are becoming fanatics and once the demographic of our country is changed through Muslim baby boom and Bangladeshi Muslim Immigrants then we will be kicked out of our own country like Kashmir Pandits and Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh. In history Hindus and Jews are the most persecuted communities but Jews have learned their lesson but we Hindus are still sleeping waiting for our destruction.
Sister Damini
i have to agree with the points you raise..but i strongly believe that we can help the educated indian muslim see through the evil Arab sponsored wahhabism that is posioning the minds of the youth.
Islam has to reform ..just like christianity did …
hardline Christianity was defeated by the moderates who themselves were Christians ..Now it’s the time for the Moderate Muslims to align Islam with humanity
I admit that it’s just a beginning and you don;t find many moderate muslims opposing the obvious evils of their religion ..but i am in no doubt that there are many moderates who need to stand up and speak against their own religion for a change
I know the path of intellectual debates and rational exposition is a long one ..but i believe that it’s the best one…because it exposes the root cause rather than getting trapped in peripheral issues
your brother
Indian Agnostic
God as the Father, will not let one of his sons to kill the other son.
This is wrong. If He is a true God, He will not ask to kill an innocent person who is not converting.
Nationalism is haram
by ভালবাসার বাংলাদেশ_ VALOBASHAR BANGLADESH on Saturday, September 11, 2010 at 1:52pm
We must give up the idea of nationalism because it is exactly what is dividing us. Quran says not to be divided, and several hadeeth talk against the disease of nationalism. Is the word of Allah and the messenger of Allah not enough for us ? If we take a look at current problems of Ummah, among other problems, it is obvious that we’re divided, and therefore weak.
The Quran Says :
Q.3:103
“And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allâh (i.e. this Qur’ân), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allâh’s Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islâmic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allâh makes His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided.”
Q.3:105
“And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment.”
Q.6:159
“Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad SAW) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do.”Q.23:52:
“And verily this Ummah of yours IS A SINGLE UMMAH and I am your Lord and Cherisher: Therefore Fear Me (and no other).”
Q.23:53:
“But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: Each party rejoices in that which is with itself.”Q.30:32
“Those who SPLIT up their religion, and become mere sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!”Q.42:13: “……that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no DIVISIONS therein….. ”
Q.49:13
“O Men, We created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may KNOW one another (NOT THAT YOU MAY DESPISE EACH OTHER).”Q.30:22
“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.”Lets analyze, and see what the Quran’s verses quoted above are all about.
The verses above are ordering and warning us not to be divided, split up, or form sects out of the religion. We’re created into so many different beautiful races, and cultures so that we KNOW each other, NOT get divided into many different countries, etc.
Nationalism is also a way of disuniting the UMMAH. As currently seen in the world, we are over FIFTY-FIVE MUSLIM COUNTRIES AND GROWING ! There should only be ONE Muslim country (Khilafah).
Quran CLEARLY orders us NOT to be Divided
Quran CLEARLY orders us NOT to be divided and separated and yet we have REFUSED to do so and decided to live in over 55 countries.We are too busy being proud Palestinian, Jordanian, Yemeni, Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Chechen, Bosnian, Algerian, Libyan, Egyptian, Moroccan, Lebanese, Bengali, etc. How many more nationalities are we going to see in the UMMAH ? How many more divisions? How many more separations ? The Kaffir are killing us one by one, as seen in the “New World Order” (Chechnya, Bosnia, Kashmir, etc). Divide-and-conquer is really working on the UMMAH. Lets all work together to put an end to this nonsense called Nationalism, a completely alien, and forbidden ideology in Islam.
The Hadith Says:
Resources From Messenger of Allah (saw)
Nationalism is HARAM because the Prophet Mohammad (saw) said in the following Hadeeths:
“Leave it. It is Rotten ” [Bukhari & Muslim] refers to all forms of Asabiyah, nationalism, racism, and patriotism.
Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. It is narrated by Abu Daud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyah or who dies for `Asabiyah.”
” …People should give up their pride in nations because this is a coal from the coals of hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than a lowly worm which pushes itself through khur (feces).” [abu Dawd and Tirmidhi].
In the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father’s genitals” Also, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, narrated by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud, “There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust.”
Also, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung).” [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]
When the news reached the Messenger of Allah (saw), he (saw) said, “O Muslims, remember Allah, remember Allah. Will you act as pagans while I am present with you after Allah has guided you to Islam, and honored you thereby and made a clean break with paganism; delivered you thereby from disbelief; and made you friends thereby?” When they heard this they wept, and embraced each other. This incident clearly highlights how the Messenger of Allah (saw) rebuked any forms of tribalism.
It is narrated by Qatada that Ibnu Abi Hathim said that in the verses quoted above Allah (swt) has ordered the Muslims to hold fast to the book of Allah, His Deen, and to his covenant, and He has forbidden the Muslims to divide amongst themselves and to dispute with each other. In another incident, Jabir ibn `Abd Allah al Ansari, narrated what happened at the watering place of al Muraysi which led to the Munafiqun stirring up the traces of `Asabiyah and seeking to destroy the unity of the Muslims. He said: “We were on a raid when one of the Muhajirun kicked one of the Ansar. The Ansar said, `O Ansar! Help me! (calling his tribe) and the Muhajir said, `O Muhajirun! Help me! (calling his tribe). The Messenger of Allah (saw) heard them and said, “Why are you stirring up something which belongs to Jahilliyah?” The Messenger of Allah (saw) did not deal with the situation only by speaking to his men, but he walked with the men all that day until nightfall, and through the night until morning and during the following day until the sun distressed them. Then he halted them, and as soon as they touched the ground, they fell asleep. He did this to distract their minds from what had transpired.
It is transmitted by at-Tabarani and al-Hakim that in one incident some people spoke very lowly about Salman al-Farsi. They spoke of the inferiority of the Persian in relation to the Arabs, and upon hearing this the Messenger of Allah (saw) declared, “Salman is from us, the ahl al-bayt (the Prophet’s family).” This statement of the Messenger of Allah (saw) disassociates all links based on lineage and tribal considerations.
It was also transmitted, in two different versions, by Ibn al-Mubarak in his two books, Al-Birr and As-Salah, that some disagreement occurred between Abu Dharr and Bilal and Abu Dharr said to Bilal, “You son of a black woman.” The Messenger of Allah (saw) was extremely upset by Abu Dharr’s comment, so he (saw) rebuked him by saying, “That is too much, Abu Dharr. He who has a white mother has no advantage which makes him better than the son of a black mother.” This rebuke had a profound effect on Abu Dharr, who then put his head on the ground swearing that he would not raise it until Bilal had put his foot over it. These incidents demonstrate that tribal ties have no place in Islam. Muslims are commanded to stick together and not to disassociate themselves from each other just because they come from different tribes.
The Messenger of Allah (saw) also said, “The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever.” [Muslim], “The faithful are like one man: if his eyes suffers, his whole body suffers.” [Muslim], “An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man was not better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam’s children and Adam was created out of clay.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Musa] Meaning that the Muslims, whether they are of Chinese, African, European or Asian origin, are one Ummah and they cannot be separated from each other.
No tribalistic ties should ever break their unity. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “The Faithful are to one another like [parts of] a building – each part strengthening the others” and “Every Muslim is a brother to a Muslim, neither wronging him nor allowing him to be wronged. And if anyone helps his brother in need, Allah will help him in his own need; and if anyone removes a calamity from [another] Muslim, Allah will remove from him some of the calamities of the Day of Resurrection; and if anyone shields [another] Muslim from disgrace, Allah will shield him from the disgrace on the Day of Resurrection.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of `Abd Allah ibn `Umar].
Some people claim that the Messenger of Allah (saw) approved of nationalism because during the migration to Madinah, he (saw) said about Makkah with tears in his (saw) eyes, “You are the most beloved land of Allah to me.” However, this saying has nothing to do with nationalism, and this can be seen from the full saying which people often do not quote, “You are the most beloved land of Allah to me because you are the most beloved land of Allah to Allah.” The Messenger of Allah’s (saw) love for Makkah was based on the noble status that Allah (swt) has given to Makkah, and not because he (saw) was born there. All Muslims should have this love and affection for Makkah because it is the most beloved land in the sight of Allah (swt). After all, the Muslims pray towards Makkah and go there to perform Hajj there as it houses the Ka’ba.
The above saying of the Messenger of Allah (saw) therefore has nothing to do with nationalism. If Rasoolillah (saw) and the Muhajireen amongst the Sahabah (ra) were tied to the homeland (of Makkah), they would have settled in Makkah after it became part of the Islamic State. Not only does Islam forbid people from grouping on nationalistic ties, but it also prohibits the establishment of more than one state, whether these states are based on nationalism or otherwise. The only state that is allowed for the Muslims is the Islamic State, which is a state that is governed exclusively by Islam. Allah (swt) addressed the Messenger (saw), “And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you” [Surah Al-Madinah (5): ayah 48] and, “And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you and do not follow their whims, and beware (be on the alert) that they may deviate you away from even some part of what Allah revealed to you.” [Surah Al-Maidah (5): ayah 49]. We must give up the idea of nationalism because it is exactly what is dividing us. Quran says not to be divided, and several hadeeth talk against the disease of nationalism. Is the word of Allah and the messenger of Allah not enough for us ? If we take a look at current problems of Ummah, among other problems, it is obvious that we’re divided, and therefore weak.The Quran Says :Q.3:103″And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allâh (i.e. this Qur’ân), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allâh’s Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islâmic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allâh makes His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided.”Q.3:105″And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment.”Q.6:159″Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad SAW) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do.”Q.23:52:”And verily this Ummah of yours IS A SINGLE UMMAH and I am your Lord and Cherisher: Therefore Fear Me (and no other).”Q.23:53:”But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: Each party rejoices in that which is with itself.”Q.30:32″Those who SPLIT up their religion, and become mere sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!”Q.42:13: “……that ye should remain steadfast in religion and make no DIVISIONS therein….. “Q.49:13″O Men, We created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may KNOW one another (NOT THAT YOU MAY DESPISE EACH OTHER).”Q.30:22″And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. Verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge.”Lets analyze, and see what the Quran’s verses quoted above are all about.The verses above are ordering and warning us not to be divided, split up, or form sects out of the religion. We’re created into so many different beautiful races, and cultures so that we KNOW each other, NOT get divided into many different countries, etc.Nationalism is also a way of disuniting the UMMAH. As currently seen in the world, we are over FIFTY-FIVE MUSLIM COUNTRIES AND GROWING ! There should only be ONE Muslim country (Khilafah). Quran CLEARLY orders us NOT to be DividedQuran CLEARLY orders us NOT to be divided and separated and yet we have REFUSED to do so and decided to live in over 55 countries.We are too busy being proud Palestinian, Jordanian, Yemeni, Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Chechen, Bosnian, Algerian, Libyan, Egyptian, Moroccan, Lebanese, Bengali, etc. How many more nationalities are we going to see in the UMMAH ? How many more divisions? How many more separations ? The Kaffir are killing us one by one, as seen in the “New World Order” (Chechnya, Bosnia, Kashmir, etc). Divide-and-conquer is really working on the UMMAH. Lets all work together to put an end to this nonsense called Nationalism, a completely alien, and forbidden ideology in Islam. The Hadith Says:Resources From Messenger of Allah (saw)Nationalism is HARAM because the Prophet Mohammad (saw) said in the following Hadeeths:”Leave it. It is Rotten ” [Bukhari & Muslim] refers to all forms of Asabiyah, nationalism, racism, and patriotism. Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. It is narrated by Abu Daud that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyah or who dies for `Asabiyah.”" …People should give up their pride in nations because this is a coal from the coals of hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than a lowly worm which pushes itself through khur (feces).” [abu Dawd and Tirmidhi].In the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father’s genitals” Also, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, narrated by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud, “There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust.” Also, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung).” [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]When the news reached the Messenger of Allah (saw), he (saw) said, “O Muslims, remember Allah, remember Allah. Will you act as pagans while I am present with you after Allah has guided you to Islam, and honored you thereby and made a clean break with paganism; delivered you thereby from disbelief; and made you friends thereby?” When they heard this they wept, and embraced each other. This incident clearly highlights how the Messenger of Allah (saw) rebuked any forms of tribalism. It is narrated by Qatada that Ibnu Abi Hathim said that in the verses quoted above Allah (swt) has ordered the Muslims to hold fast to the book of Allah, His Deen, and to his covenant, and He has forbidden the Muslims to divide amongst themselves and to dispute with each other. In another incident, Jabir ibn `Abd Allah al Ansari, narrated what happened at the watering place of al Muraysi which led to the Munafiqun stirring up the traces of `Asabiyah and seeking to destroy the unity of the Muslims. He said: “We were on a raid when one of the Muhajirun kicked one of the Ansar. The Ansar said, `O Ansar! Help me! (calling his tribe) and the Muhajir said, `O Muhajirun! Help me! (calling his tribe). The Messenger of Allah (saw) heard them and said, “Why are you stirring up something which belongs to Jahilliyah?” The Messenger of Allah (saw) did not deal with the situation only by speaking to his men, but he walked with the men all that day until nightfall, and through the night until morning and during the following day until the sun distressed them. Then he halted them, and as soon as they touched the ground, they fell asleep. He did this to distract their minds from what had transpired. It is transmitted by at-Tabarani and al-Hakim that in one inciden
t some people spoke very lowly about Salman al-Farsi. They spoke of the inferiority of the Persian in relation to the Arabs, and upon hearing this the Messenger of Allah (saw) declared, “Salman is from us, the ahl al-bayt (the Prophet’s family).” This statement of the Messenger of Allah (saw) disassociates all links based on lineage and tribal considerations. It was also transmitted, in two different versions, by Ibn al-Mubarak in his two books, Al-Birr and As-Salah, that some disagreement occurred between Abu Dharr and Bilal and Abu Dharr said to Bilal, “You son of a black woman.” The Messenger of Allah (saw) was extremely upset by Abu Dharr’s comment, so he (saw) rebuked him by saying, “That is too much, Abu Dharr. He who has a white mother has no advantage which makes him better than the son of a black mother.” This rebuke had a profound effect on Abu Dharr, who then put his head on the ground swearing that he would not raise it until Bilal had put his foot over it. These incidents demonstrate that tribal ties have no place in Islam. Muslims are commanded to stick together and not to disassociate themselves from each other just because they come from different tribes. The Messenger of Allah (saw) also said, “The believers, in their love, mutual kindness, and close ties, are like one body; when any part complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever.” [Muslim], “The faithful are like one man: if his eyes suffers, his whole body suffers.” [Muslim], “An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man was not better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam’s children and Adam was created out of clay.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Musa] Meaning that the Muslims, whether they are of Chinese, African, European or Asian origin, are one Ummah and they cannot be separated from each other. No tribalistic ties should ever break their unity. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “The Faithful are to one another like [parts of] a building – each part strengthening the others” and “Every Muslim is a brother to a Muslim, neither wronging him nor allowing him to be wronged. And if anyone helps his brother in need, Allah will help him in his own need; and if anyone removes a calamity from [another] Muslim, Allah will remove from him some of the calamities of the Day of Resurrection; and if anyone shields [another] Muslim from disgrace, Allah will shield him from the disgrace on the Day of Resurrection.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of `Abd Allah ibn `Umar]. Some people claim that the Messenger of Allah (saw) approved of nationalism because during the migration to Madinah, he (saw) said about Makkah with tears in his (saw) eyes, “You are the most beloved land of Allah to me.” However, this saying has nothing to do with nationalism, and this can be seen from the full saying which people often do not quote, “You are the most beloved land of Allah to me because you are the most beloved land of Allah to Allah.” The Messenger of Allah’s (saw) love for Makkah was based on the noble status that Allah (swt) has given to Makkah, and not because he (saw) was born there. All Muslims should have this love and affection for Makkah because it is the most beloved land in the sight of Allah (swt). After all, the Muslims pray towards Makkah and go there to perform Hajj there as it houses the Ka’ba. The above saying of the Messenger of Allah (saw) therefore has nothing to do with nationalism. If Rasoolillah (saw) and the Muhajireen amongst the Sahabah (ra) were tied to the homeland (of Makkah), they would have settled in Makkah after it became part of the Islamic State. Not only does Islam forbid people from grouping on nationalistic ties, but it also prohibits the establishment of more than one state, whether these states are based on nationalism or otherwise. The only state that is allowed for the Muslims is the Islamic State, which is a state that is governed exclusively by Islam. Allah (swt) addressed the Messenger (saw), “And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you” [Surah Al-Madinah (5): ayah 48] and, “And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you and do not follow their whims, and beware (be on the alert) that they may deviate you away from even some part of what Allah revealed to you.” [Surah Al-Maidah (5): ayah 49].
a muslim is muslim not INDIAN OR PAKISTANI.
Thank you for your research on why Muslims should be anti-nationals
If there’s truth to what @IslamisGreat is saying, then it becomes a valid reason for all Nations to ban Islam ASAP
Islam’s myopia needs to be corrected ..one must believe that WHOLE HUMANITY is ONE FAMILY..and NOT THE DISGUSTING IDEA THAT ALL MUSLIMS are ONE FAMILY pitched against all NON-MUSLIMS.
let me see if there’s any moderate Indian Muslim who stands up to condemn the myopic view of @IslamIsGreat_Threat
Fear allah not Indian govt
@Who thinks Islam is great
Fear factor has big role to play in Islam! Either fear Allah or frighten non Believers! Love for Allah and non Believers, however, is too difficult for Believers of Islam.
Please visit http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/ and give your views on the ten points given there. Its necessary to differentiate between good Muslims and fanatic supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik. Make your stand clear there and then we can continue with your discussion.
Thanks
The problem with the Arab sponsored Islam is exactly this ..follows the ahadit and quran to the last literal word.
It can only be fearful of God and spread fear everywhere else ..sounds like religion of peace ..doesn’t it?
Brother @Arya
I think agniveer admin must check the IP of this @IslamisGreat (threat) ..he’s has the potential and intent to be harmful to humanity ..atleast he makes no bones about his disdain for the indian government
the moderatye muslims as usual would again remain a silent spectator …i am sadly getting convinced that ‘moderate islam’ is a sham
I dont fear either.
so according to those muslim indian soldiers fought against pakistan are kafir?
according to some Mullahs of India ..they are
bAN iSLAM IN iNDIA
@ TOTAGOTO :
Quran is a wonderful book and Life of Mohammed is so great…!!!
so according to you those muslim indian soldiers fought against pakistan are kafir?
@Islam is Great Thank you for proving ISLAM IS A RELIGION WHICH SPREADS HATRED with verses from Koran and Hadith. Now what about SSS AND SSHAMA who keep ranting islam is religion of peace and blah blah now their co brother has himself EXPOSED ISLAM with cool verses Koran and Hadith.
@ Kafir786:
SSS is here…I am here to clarify about Islam, Quran and Mohammed…
Whatever you have mentioned deals nothing with it…!!!
SSS so you openly accept that your are supporter of Pakistan or pakistani and you are not afraid of indian goverment cool this is what we want to know.
@ Sameer:
As I said already…A Stupid Brahmin will say these things…
I can surely tell now…you are not a true Indian too..to say this…my dear child…
Got your loyalties Traitor instead of fighting @islam is great pakistani who quoted from Koran and Hadith that Muslim should betray their country you are fighting your own brothers that itself shows you are a big traitor.
@SSS
And a terrorist will always counter argue truth like that…
Roger brother you are right brother
@ roger , @ Kafir786:
You guys deleted my comments intentionally and debating as though you were too honest…!!!
GOD knows Who is a terrorist and who is a traitor…!!!
@SSS
I don’t know about GOD, but yes you are a terrorist!
^^^
according to a person who loves humanity.
@ Islamist’s Nightmare :
I am not a terrorist…!!! as you prove your blood identity now and then…!!!
Anyhow you are followers of Chanakya…right…then how can I expect humanity…!!!
GOD knows everything…!!! Everyone knows a drop and not an ocean…!!!
@SSS
you could have said it better like My name is Triple S and i am not a terrorist! what a joke. follower of a mass murderer is a messenger of humanity. follower of a cult which has almost 1000+ of violent history praying for peace.
I don’t know how you have concluded that i am a follower of chankya. BTW…who is chankya? Is he a follower of yazid?
you think that you are different from other muslims, but you are not. you all are the same. you people have two faces, when you are in minority you act like that you are secular and respect other religions. when you are in majority you start hunting non-muslims until they embrace your cult or till they die.
Thankyou for telling me that islam doesnt believe in nationalism. All muslims are brothers to one another, likewise all kaffirs are brothers to one another.
Jai shri ram
I must thank Zakir Naik for speaking ill about my religion. I found that I didn’t have much knowledge on my own religion, while I read the Quran (Because of Naik, again.) and found a lot of disgusting things in it. So now, before criticizing Islam and its ideology, I have decided to explore my own faith. Thank you, Dr. Zakir Nalayak!
By the way, what has been proposed in this post will never happen. This is the highest level of Shirk! The Mullahs will never hear of it!
That’s a good news……u know there was a time when a Hindu who has no knowledge of his own culture, but due to Muslims wandering around telling what quran says and all shit…Hindu starts reading Quran things or get depressed and no one around to teach that Hindu guy that Muslims are trying to brain wash u…
Now its the time…..any Hindu u find getting Inspired by Muslim just give him..
http://WWW.AGNIVEER.COM
and he will bash muslim with so many things in Quran and Islam…
that he will leave islam…
JAI SHREE RAM…
What is wrong with all the people here?
There is nothing like moderate Muslims and extremists.
Oh sorry there is.
Both of them follow Quran and both of them believe in it.
But if u have to differentiate between these two, then this might help.
Extremists: People who follow quran word by word and cut off the heads of innocent non believers.
Moderate Muslims: People who follow quran word by word and help hold legs of the innocent non believers while extremists are cutting the heads off.
Shame on people who believe in Islam.I mean one has to understand the neurological disorder muslims r suffering with.
They say Mohammad Prophet is the greatest man ever lived on this earth.But his character and his deeds in the past r worse.What is he in front of ppl like Gandhi,Mother Teressa.?
OK maybe he might have done some charity work as per the Islamic texts but all that is gone waste when u ………
Kill other people of other faiths(Muslims might jump in and say no he only killed for defense …but no plz verify he killed thousands of innocent ppl and not for defense.)
He treated women like trash
He had sex slaves, married kids like Aisha.
Stoned people to death for adultry.But he himself laid thousands of married women ( widows of prisoners of war).
Asked for the death of non believers and idolators.
Invented Shariah in which human rights is a disaster.
Said 4 men required as proof to proove rape( wat if gal was raped behind closed doors) , apostates shd be killed.
One cannot build temples or churches in islamic state.(How intolerant yet they want mosques built in all countries.)
Moving On
Now check this verse.
Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”
What the hell in this verse talks about defense?Mohammad Prophet through his holy spiritual peaceful scripture quran says wait till sacred moths r over and then attack the idolators.
Whether u take this verse out of context or with context meaning remains the same.
The next verse 9 : 6 says ” And if any one of the idolators seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
Now clearly it says attack a idolater if he asks for mercy tell him abt allah and if he converts into islam safeguard him.Else do wat was told in previous verse(9:5)
Next time if a muslim tries to act smart saying that Islam is religion of peace and that the verses from quran are taken out of context to proove islam is bad should be nuked.
Its utter shame that a intolerant religion is so popular and we r sharing our country with ppl following it.
B4 islam came into India there were many religions like budhism, jainism and many more but all lived in peace.But the moment Islam came.Glory of India , peace came to an end.But good that Indian heritage and its greatness is still known to ppl bcoz of site like this.I appreciate Agniveer.com.
Its in depth analysis has proven some of the dumb myths of Hinduism as untrue.Hinduism stands 4–
Peace—–check the history India always lived in peace till islam came.
Tolerance– check the history and the present for we r allowing ur mosques and quran which asks for the death of nonbelievers to be printed and propogated.
Respect For Women–U will spend ur entire life counting the number of goddesses in India.(women treated as goddess and often seen as good luck sign)
There is no comparison between islam and hinduism….A vast difference of chalk and cheese.
Hinduism any day wins.I am not talking abt ppl who do lunatic things in the name of hinduism but the religion it self.Hinduism is awesome tats the reason y v r still one of the most leading religions in the world.There is no conversion and advertisement.V have survived all this time and will survive for ever.Dont correct me bcoz I am not wrong
Traitor Muslim League of India (Congress) betrayed the country by allowing Muslim leader Geelani and Arundati Roy to speak on Delhi on disintegrating India. Sonia and Rahul Gandhi are foreigners they nicely showed this through this episode they just here for collecting money at the cost of Indians.
TRAITOR CONGRESS ALSO KEPT QUITE AND BLOCKED THE MEDIA OF SHOWING HOW CHINA SHOT DOWN INDIAN AIR FORCE PLANE OUR SECURITY ARE SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED BY THIS TRAITORS SEE BELOW LINK
http://www.peopleforum.cn/redirect.php?tid=45105&goto=newpost
Agniveer, pranam,
Many consider me a fanatic/lunatic whatever. But your post is the one single thing that gives a fitting reply to anybody who makes a big show of secularism.
jai shri ram
We consider you an asset for society. But you need to understand the dynamics and strike where it rightly deserves. Fight not for venting frustration but to seek solutions. Do not what makes you satisfied but what creates impact.
The energy in you is impressive, but it needs direction. I hope you would seek to look into this advise of your elder brother.
Hi Hindu Militant I also follow u on times of India,U r quiet funny I need to tell u.u keep following debates between muslims and Hindus in times of India and then suddenly bombard muslims with single liners.U r a true fun to watch keep up the good job.ha ha ha bro.
@agniveer, dharma thug,
Pranaam.
Actually, I understand what you are doing, but according to me it is POINTLESS. Everybody looks at the whole world from his own perspective. I know muslims, they are normal people like us, but when it comes to religion and politics they are absolutely different from rest of humanity. They are like programmed robots, parroting what is in the koran. No independent thought. YOu point out their fallacies, they say, ” it is written in koran, that kaffirs will have closed hearts, etc” so, basically person with closed heart will think others to be same. So, I gave up on intellectual debate. POINTLESS. eg:- hardly any muslim knows how prophet mohammed died a slow and painful death. they think it was a natural death.
second is beating about the bush. muslims are past masters at deception. taqiyya they call it.
Third and most importantly, they actually think they can fight 10 (ten) kaffirs at a time, and win. It IS written in the koran. and our history confirms it. They ruled us for 666 years. at the point of the sword.
So, it infuriates the rajput blood in me. I dont ever argue, but just give my one liners, which (atleast for a muslim ) are devastating. basically reverse their logic. Dharma thug may find it amusing, but it is designed to INFURIATE muslims. eg:- I got nothing to do with israel-palestine conflict. But i blindly support israel (kaffir unity) just to infuriate muslims.
This is the ONLY way to go. Logic never createsimpact, reverse their point of view does. I create impact. my statement, if kashmir secedes from India, I will do to muslim minority,in my honetown, exactly what happened to hindu minority in kashmir. Lotssss of pakis got upset and asked me…”human rights nahi hai kya?” my shameless reply, nahi hai. See, how these people are? When they fight and committ genocide, they dont care for human rights, but when we retaliate, they suddenly talk of humanity and human rights, blah blah.
It is this hypocrisy that makes me mad, and keeps me going. show your aggression, your martial race, your fighting skills, not your intellect. They are pre-programmed robots.
JAI SHRI RAM.
hindu militant
Namaste.
I respect your emotions. I know you are infuriated because of history and even present. I accept that most of the Muslim brothers and sisters act like programmed robots. But I have few comments/suggestions for you, please take them positively
1. Muslims ruled here not because they are born 10 times stronger than Kafirs. It was because Hindus were not united. Prithviraj Chauhan was defeated by Muhammad Ghauri, not because of his superior martial art but because of the traitors. When great Rana Pratap was fighting Akbar, most of the Rajputs (I feel shame in calling those cowards as Rajputs) were busy offering their sisters, wives and daughters to Shahi Harem of Akbar, the famous butcher.
2. Muslims never ruled whole of India even for 100 years. And wherever they ruled, it was because of the treaties with Hindu Kings. Majority of Hindus in India is the biggest proof of the same.
3. It were Hindus, who were actually responsible for their downfall. We were practicing anti Vedic system of castes. A so called Shudra was untouchable but a Muslim could be the ruler! No so called Panda refused to live under Muslim’s rule just like they refused to live with lower castes. Veer Savarkar has given many examples that how a so called untouchable Dalit, when converted to Islam was no more untouchable for fool Pandaas. So called Brahmins of Banaras who used to get impure by the contact of any HINDU Shudra pulled the chariot of CHRISTIAN Viceroy to show him their loyalty to the British Raj! So that time, being a Muslim or Christian was far better option than being a so called lower class Hindu. So many of our Brothers and sisters converted for this reason too.
4. Do you know that Hindus were not ready to accept those Brothers and Sisters who had to leave Hinduism for any reason? Even those converted forcefully to Islam had no option of coming back to Hinduism because again Pandaas refused to do so. Even 100 years ago, when Swami Dayanand launched Shuddhi movement to bring back home Muslims and Christians, who were lost during onslaught and forceful conversions of their ancestors, he was opposed like anything and was poisoned! Swami Shraddhanand, Pandit Lekhram are few names who were disciple of Swami Dayanand and were shot and stabbed by fanatic Muslims for Shuddhi movement. They were also opposed by Hindus. Swami Shraddhanand alone converted few Lakhs Malkana Muslims in Rajasthan. But they converted back to Islam because Hindu Pandits and even people refuse to accept their daughters for marriage.
So tell me
Muslims are growing in India and so as their fanaticism, who is responsible? Aren’t we, who refused to help them when they asked for it?
They are running conversion centers in India and converting thousands of Hindus every year, who is responsible? Aren’t we, who told them that Hinduism is not for Malechchhas, who poisoned the hero of Shuddhi movement, who did not accept their daughters and sons for marriages?
How many Vedic centers do you have where you try to spread Vedic teachings of equality?
How many times you have tried to help organizing Shuddhi for Muslims, who once wanted to come back to us?
Have you tried to fight those Hindus who even today oppose Shuddhi, who believe in caste system?
If no, why do you blindly hate Muslims? Should not we hate those Hindus more who even today defend the evil caste system? Muslims of today are just fruits, the actual roots lie in the past, which were nurtured by anti Vedic practices of Hindus alone. We got defeated because Hinduism of that time was worse than Islam. So instead of blaming Muslims every time, we should focus on our weaknesses and try to get them rectified.
I believe we should be powerful enough to burn any invader to ashes before he eyes at our mothers and motherland. So lets improve ourselves physically, intellectually, and socially so that no Mahmud, Ghauri, Taimur, Babur can ever go back to their Ghazni, Ghaur, Fargana in single piece. And also that no Raichand can ever become Kala Pahaad in the absence of any Dayanand.
May Eeshvar fill our hearts with love for innocents and with anger for culprits.
best regards
@Vajra
namaste brother,
this is a touching reply. Well done!
Namaste Brother Vik
Thanks for the appreciation. Brother, I believe that Brother Hindu is far better than Indian secularists who have surrendered to Jihadi mindsets totally. He is better than Manmohan Singh, who said that Muslims have first right over resources in India, Rahul Gandhi who thinks RSS a bigger threat than Lashkar e Taiyaba, Digvijay Singh who sheds tears for terrorists but not for policeman who was killed by them, and all those Jihadi lovers who want to settle Kashmir issue but not 5 Lakhs Kashmiri Hindus who were thrown out of the valley in 1989.
So Brother Hindu’s anger is not without the reason. But it needs to be channelized in proper direction. Anger is a fire which can burn ourselves (like wild fire) if not controlled but can make us be on top (like fire in the engine of aircraft) if controlled.
@Vajra
Namaste Brother,
yes, all indians should be directed towards morality and hopefully our efforts will portray the true Vedic Dharma to all these people in order to restore all those noble values.
Sorry but all this moral code of conduct u r suggesting for Hindus to follow wud be only useful if the opposite party is deserving.Tell me ,do the muslims who follow conversions through force and subjugation like how it was suggested in Surah Al tawba( chapter 9) in quran deserve any treatment other than a brutal retaliation from us?(no need to question my knowledge on this chapter from quran I read it with tasfeer)
Hindus shd unite ,they shd bcome extreme.Extreme in the sense mentally.They shd understand the fact that for survival of Hinduism they shd work hard, be strong in belief and shd leave behind some stupid superstitious beliefs followed earlier in our Indian dark ages like caste system,dowry, female infantiscide, sati(ofcourse already gone) .They shd get good education and shd work in India and make this country wealthy.They shd also strive to get rid of poverty thus avoiding Christian conversions.
A day shd come in India when the poorest of the poor shd think atleast in ignorance that Hinduism meals wealth and prosperity and well being and shd revert back to Hinduism which was their religion which was followed by their forefathers.(I am talking abt converted poor muslims and christians).I dream of this India.There is nothing v can do by physically fighting.The gap will only increase .
@Dharma Thug, I agree with you Dharma Thug mentally we should be extremist. Shivaji Maharaj did not crush Mughal empire using sweet words and IRF Zakir Naik’s Guru was silenced by Fiery Arya Samaji Pandit Mahendra Pal and not by soft spoken Shri Shri Ravi Shankar.
Pandit Mahendra Pal himself said that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna did not protect their Dharma by doing YOGA or using sweet words and we should be good with good people and bad with bad people.
Honest Answer. And very true. I am a Rajput, but I certainly denounce the Cowardice of the Majority of Rajputs like Man Singh et al. who BARTERED their Sisters for the patronage of Akbar. BUT Maharana Pratap preferred to eat rotis made of grass than to sell his honor. Even in those worst days when -once- his daughter-princess complained that the only chappati of grass has been stolen by a Dog, he was heart-broken and THOUGHT of going the way of other Rajputs and wrote a letter to Akbar. BUT it was the poet Prithviraj -in Akbar’s court- who EXHORTED Maharana to WITHSTAND the Mogul onslaught. He penned down “Now-famous” Couplet. Just to Share those legendary lines with our brothern:
” The hopes of the Hindu rest on the Hindu surya yet the Rana forsakes them. But for Pratap, all would be placed on the same level by Akbar; for our chiefs have lost their valour and our females their honour. Akbar is the broker in the market of our race; he has purchased all but the son of Udai (Singh II of Mewar); he is beyond his price. What true Rajput would part with honour for nauroza [the Persian new year's festival, where Akbar selected women for his pleasure]; yet how many have bartered it away? Will Chittor come to this market …? Though Patta (an affectionate name for Pratap Singh) has squandered away wealth (on warfare), yet he has preserved this treasure. Despair has driven man to this market, to witness their dishonour: from such infamy the descendant of Hammir (Maharana Hammir) alone has been preserved. The world asks, from where does the concealed aid of Pratap emanate? None but the soul of manliness and his sword.. The broker in the market of men (Akbar) will one day be surpassed; he cannot live forever. Then will our race come to Pratap, for the seed of the Rajput to sow in our desolate lands. To him all look for its preservation, that its purity may again become resplendent. It is as much impossible for me to believe that Pratap has called Akbar his emperor as to see the sun rising in the west. Tell me where do I stand? Shall I use my sword on my neck or shall I continue my proud bearing? ”
There are so many examples of true Indian kings suffering because of backstabbing of fellow Hindus: Rani Lakshmi Bai is one of them, who could have single handedly turned the tide against the britishers BUT she was ditched by the Royals of Gwalior and others who shifted their loyalties to Britishers!! The gutsy lady preferred to jump into a bonfire.
Hitler once said: “If 30,000 Britishers can rule over 30 crore Indians, then imagine who is superior?” Frankly Britishers had to do nothing much to rule, they just followed divide and rule policy, rest is history.
LIE OF INDIA’S SECULARISM: Hindus are always lied that India is secular country, secularism means that where people can buy land without being asked about their religion, where jobs will be given on merit not on basis of religious quota this is not the case in India so India is not a secular Country. HINDUS CANNOT BUY LAND IN MUSLIM MAJORITY AREAS AND CHRISTIAN MAJORITY AREA LIKE KASHMIR, NAGALAND MIZORAM ETC. Muslim can have Sharia in Kashmir and Christians can have LAND OF CHRIST IN NAGALAND AND MIZORAM but pseudosecularist tell that Hindus should not ask for their rights even in Hindu majority area otherwise you will termed Communal, and Hindus should not dream about HINDU RASHTRA even in Hindu Majority areas. Christian and Muslims does not allow even an inch to Hindus in their territory Kashmir, Nagaland and Mizoram but they want us to allow them to breed in HINDU MAJORITY. CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED TO ABUSE HINDUS BUT HINDUS SHOULD NOT RETALIATE! HELL WITH THIS SECULARISM. TOMORROW THEY WILL STEAL OUR JOBS ALSO.
SO ANY JERK OR BASTARD WHO SAYS THAT INDIA IS SECULAR COUNTRY THEN HE IS LYING TO FOOL HINDUS SO THAT HINDUS TURN MIGRANTS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY LIKE KASHMIRI PANDITS IN KASHMIR AND PARSIS IN IRAN.
@ satya
Very Right brother, the condition of Hindus is Bad in it’s own land. But more than people of other religions, it is the individuals amongst ourselves who are RESPONSIBLE for this state of affairs.
NOW the question is where do you find them? : 1. Our “(Pseudo) Secular” MEDIA. Most English Media houses are nothing but Corporate giants that control the flow of News to us. These perverts are funded by “Suspect” sources and have an agenda of their masters. Most are pro-Congress, some have a Communist slant, others follow a Middle approach of being a “quiet-spectator” (of the sort: “We know the truth, but shall not reveal it in the name of secularism!). Then there is the dirty job of PAID-News. Also Notice debates on certain English Channels, wherein one odd BJP leader is pitted against three or more “Secular” babblers, Even the anchor is highly biased. This is what they call “DEBATE”. When Christians convert Tribals, it is but a “Constitutional Right” according to these biased Media houses aka Corporates. But if Hindu organizations make an effort for their return, they are branded “goons”, “bigots”, “dangers to secularism”!! (Though I abhor the violence of any kind)
2. Our Politicians: Filthy, Cheap, Vote-bank creeps. Just Today, I read about what Digvijay Singh (Imagine, this fellow is a Rajput!!), the Congress leader said: “Jinnah was not responsible for partition, it was the Hindus and Savarkar!!!” As usual Congress is Quite. And the Leftist (Communists) are openly -supporting- him!! There is NO law for restraining him; damn law is for the commoners like you and me, NOT for these foul-mouthed leaders. Where are the $400 billion of Indian money stashed by these people?? Here we are paying 58 rupees for a litre of petrol and our govt says they cannot Name the Black-money holders!!! A report says that part of this money is knowingly or unknowingly being channeled to the terrorist organizations via the share marktet!!
3. Our Humanists: It is rather shameful to call them humanists, they are a blot on the name of humanity. These “liberals” feel a gush of energy when bashing anything Hindu or their culture, they are HYPER-ALLERGIC to words like Hindu, Vedas, Cow-worship, Temple et al. These people -like Arundhati- deliver sermons standing in New-Delhi openly supporting the “HUMAN-RIGHTS” of terrorists. Bhai, what about the bereaved families of the Soldiers who die fighting for the Nation? I personally saw the coffin of a young soldier who was shot by terrorists in Kashmir. Binayak Sen gets European Human Rights Organizations for witnessing his “fair” trial, his communist associates are spewing venom against our judicial system for being HARSH TO A TRAITOR who sympathizes with Maoists!! What about those whose limbs have been severed by Maoists, those who have been tortured to death: They have NO human rights??
4. Historians: I reserve this special category for our Communist Historians, who are unfortunately the AUTHORS of NCERT books. Though, most of these are Hindus, they rejoice on poking fun at Vedas, demeaning Hindu scriptures, calling us semi-nomads, treating Hindu resistance to Muslim invasions as “personal” and glorifying Sultanates. One of them (D.N. Jha) claims that Hindus were “beef-eaters” till 19th century, it was only after Dayanand Saraswati that Beef was forbidden!!!
SO My friend, why should we blame other people or our Enemy Nations, when we have sufficient “Sickular- enemies within.
(Please Note: I support the Concept of Secularism to it’s core, every religion should have freedom to show-case it’s treasures on “equal” platform, BUT not at the cost of demeaning Hinduism or Vedas which most among the above categories are indulging in)
Namaste brothers,
I agree with hitler’s hypothesis,” “If 30,000 Britishers can rule over 30 crore Indians, then imagine who is superior?” This is EXACTLY the reason why muslims consider themselves as superior, atleast in martial skills. ALL muslims I met think exactly the same. Well, they did rule us for 666 years, cant re-write history. That is why I like to flaunt my rajput identity, in front of muslims (although I dont believe in casteism). According to THEM, except for sikhs, rajputs and marathas all hindus are banias. (even these 3 are not as great fighters as muslims)Again because of history. The north Indian hindu is a “lala” who wears a dhoti and south Indian hindu is “anna” who wears a lungi, and once we brave muslims just puff up our chests, they will lift their dhoti/lungi and run away, leaving their wealth and wives to us. That is the garbage in every muslims mind. Hell, they want to make britain (2%muslim) into islamic country, and force queen elizabeth to wear burkha. And USA will become islamic (less than 2% muslim) . Just ONE terrorist attack on 9/11 and america became muslim country, and president bush became a mullah. I have seen the morphed pics. These are the kind of dreams they see. You and me know this is not possible, but what kind of malicious dreams? Kaise behuda sapne dekhte hai yeh log? You think they dont dream of making india islamic?
Secondly as vajra rightly said, that we have our caste systems and we dont welcome back re-converts from islam. They are not accepted back in hindu society. This has to change. We can re-run the shuddhi movement. I can and will.Travelling outside India the first thing one realises is that the density of population in India is highest, thats why we are not progressing fast enough. If I was alive in 1947, I would have definetly STARTED a civl war instead of going for partition. I dont want muslims in my country, and I dont want these sickular/ narrow minded casteist hindus either. The whirlwind of civil war, would have created a master race of casteless hindu warriors from the fire. Imagine, undivided India, not one single muslim and only about 30-40 crore castless hindus. Where would we be today? Didnt america go for civil war? Whyere is usa today? And if I go spewing venon (jahar ugalna) on muslims, I will get in trouble with the law. But what is going to stop me spewing venom against my own hindu community? To provoke them into action. And UNITY. Murli manohar joshi of BJP gave a lecture in gauhati. “There should be across the board unity amongst all hindus regardless of whether they speak, assamese, bengali or hindi.” Guess what the muslims were extremely worried over this seemingly innocent statement. I KNOW where the weak point of muslims is.
Their weakest point. . We cannot do anything to muslims, or they will get help from “outside” Wel,, plzzz do, I will also get help from outside, the entire south east is hindu- buddhist. How come no hindu ever thought of this before?
@ Hindu militant
Brother, Calm down. Our weapon is PEN and Keyboard. You see, you should fight the IDEOLOGY and not the people. Most of these people of other religions had their ancestors as Victims to the onslaught of religious fanaticism, Please keep History in your mind. So we ought to understand the Comprehensive picture: It is NOT that Muslims or Christians are per se Bad, it is the fanaticism that has to be routed out. We have to fight fanaticism in their religion as well as “orthodoxy” in our religion. At the same time we have to insure that sinister elements within our system: “The pseudo-seculars”, do not insult or demean our religion; we have to “thoroughly” expose their evil agendas.
To be fair, Muslims have also provided great sons to India: Abdul Hamid– Param Vir Chakra, a brave soldier who died for the nation. APJ Adbul Kalam– Honest former President, who lived pious life and did justice to his job as president.
There is one organization in where you will find the true secular Bharat– Indian Army.
Our weapons are pen and keyboard. Exactly, speak softly but carry and large stick. I want to put the fear of god into the hearts of muslims. That we too can mirror what they do. For eg:- my idea of getting help from the hindu-buddhist countries of south east asia and far east. This usually shuts them up. (puts fear into their hearts)
Dr. Subramanian Swamy who has exposed 2G Spectrum also has exposed SONIA GANDHI in his website but no Media channel had guts to show his exposure that how Sonia Gandhi is selling India. This is the ugly face of secularism.
http://janataparty.org/sonia.html