“O Agniveer, Why don’t you focus only on good points of your own faith. Why do you spread hatred against other faiths?”

“Agniveer, Don’t spew venom against other religions. Live and let live.”

“Agniveer is *******. They have a hate agenda.”

“Agniveer is anti-Islamic. They hate Muslims.”

“Agniveer has some decent intellectual stuff, but I’m a bit wary of them because of how much proselytism AGAINST other religions they do. I try and be a live and let live person, so I just ignore such things.”

and so on.

These represent a small sampler of a large number of feedback we have been receiving these days through mails, comments, tweets, facebook etc. This seems to be a perception issue that we would prefer to address promptly.

So we thought it would be appropriate to review these allegations rationally once more. Hopefully we would be more effective in explaining our thought process this time.

Q: Agniveer, why do you hate other religions?

A:

1. We believe in only one religion for entire humanity – religion of humanity as guided by Vedas. This is also called Hinduism. Regardless of whether one consciously follows or not, this is the real religion driving all rational/ tolerant/ compassionate human beings. So there actually exists no ‘other religion’ for us. And there exists no specific ‘my religion’ to preach! What is commonly called religion is simply a set of specific assumptions believed as given by a group of people regardless of its actual veracity. Assumptions are necessary for humans to survive and focus on more relevant things. But equally important is the skill to question assumptions in order to have more rational assumptions. We do try to do so at times, but only in the same manner as Galileo questioned the assumption of Gravity being proportional to weight and Kepler questioning the assumption of sun revolving round the earth.

Thus if Agniveer is guilty of this treason, so were the likes of Galileo, Einstein, Kepler and Newton. We know that Galileo was punished for his ‘blasphemous’ views because society had not evolved enough to place rationality ahead of everything else. If Agniveer is also condemned for same reason, then perhaps society needs to evolve further.

2. In the Vedic Dharma of Agniveer, there is no place for hatred. In fact, rising above feelings of hate, frustration, lust and lying is mandatory immediate goal of life so as to be eligible for higher goals. Thus whatever we say or write is devoid of any feeling of hatred. We simply try to be truthful and polite to our family members. (Entire humanity is one single family as per Vedas.)

However if we have inadvertently hurt any sentiments, we humbly apologize to our brothers and sisters. And request them to specify the exact reference so that we can rectify the mistake.

Q: Don’t give an elated speech full of moral hyperboles. Your site is focused on condemning other religions.

A:

1. The bulk of articles on the site are related to better understanding of Vedic concepts and addressing some of the popular myths surrounding them. Then there are articles on History, Freedom Fighters, Health, Sanskrit, Women Issues, Motivation, Inspiration and other secular subjects. These form the overwhelmingly major portion of the site.

2. We know that morality is becoming a hyperbole these days owing to abject materialism or headless superstitions. So while we don’t take such usages adversely, we do focus to put our bit to make morality appear more relevant for today’s world. That brings an additional focus on Vedas which we believe to be one of the best treatise on practical morality.

3. We do not condemn any religion and believe in respect for all view-points even though we may differ at times. We do not consider it wrong in any manner to rationally discuss similarities and differences in a friendly manner as we do in a family. This may at best be called “constructive analysis”.

Why religion, in all fields of knowledge there are multiple viewpoints. Experts of all these fields critically analyze each others’ viewpoint rationally and dispassionately. There are huge number of theories regarding origin of life, origin of consciousness, origin of universe, fundamental properties of matter/ energy etc. Its only through a process of critical analysis and mutual discussions that we arrive at better understanding. This is the core essence of scientific spirit. Only fanatics would associate irrelevant emotions with this process.

Q: Why don’t you respect all faiths, live and let live?

1. Suppose you start a school and teach the students that earth is flat and thunder happens when a person on sky sneezes. Would the government approve or allow your curriculum? Would you not consider it to be in spirit of science and rationality that one logically explains the fallacies of these theories?

Now if I state that these theories of flat earth and sneezing thunder come from a book that I consider to be religious, will that change the reality? Tomorrow I can assert that Harry Potters is my religious book and I be allowed to teach witchcraft in my school. Further all people should be banned from questioning witchcraft. No rational person would sanction such views.

All that Agniveer may have stated is that if any book has content that is blatantly against established science and logic, then it cannot be considered perfect. Does it not sound rational? And should this rationality change only because 80% of people of tribal Africa believe in this book or its ideas? Or because Harry Potters is a bestseller?

2. Further to this, because we consider creation of assumptions to be a natural trait of humans, we don’t condemn anyone or any group merely because of these assumptions. We may at times politely mention the logical fallacies, but would ensure that we do so with respect and sensitivity. We ensure we do not make it personal or associate any adverse emotions with this.

3. However we do and we would continue to very strongly condemn those people or groups of people who believe in any one or more of the following:

– all the people who do not believe in what they believe would be doomed in Hell forever, regardless of howsomuch noble or good they are.

– its their divine goal to coerce people to embrace their beliefs by force, fear or fraud.

– any person who was earlier in their group but has now left the group deserves to be killed under charge of apostasy.

– people who do not believe in what they believe deserve inferior rights in life even though they are peaceful and tolerant.

– women are less intelligent than men and hence deserve unequal social and political rights.

– certain people are born superior and deserve better rights from birth and others are inferior owing to birth in an inferior family.

Regardless of whether such people claim to be Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Communist or whatever, we shall always strive to destroy this blind fanaticism.We believe all rational minds of the world would also do the same in spirit of human rights, tolerance and equality. That is all Agniveer is trying to do.

Q: Don’t lie. You have so many articles against Islam. Agniveer is an anti-Islam site.

A: We do not condemn the original Quran because we have not read it. We believe original Quran is lost but do respect sentiments of those who do not consider so. However we condemn those available Quran and its translations that smell of one of the 6 points raised in previous answer and those people who believe so. We also condemn those non-Quranic texts like Hadiths and Tafseers that denigrate spirit of tolerance. And why we, many Muslim scholars have condemned the same. For example, refer to Dual Islam by Dr Ghulam Jilani Barq, the eminent Islamic scholar of Pakistan.

– Thus all our articles on Islam are targeted ONLY towards that version of Islam which has one of these 6 defects. This being a very prominent group these days, we had to put extra effort to thwart their ideology.

– There is nothing new that we have presented here. All our works are based on works of erstwhile and contemporary Islamic scholars.

– However if we have a Muslim or Quran lover who refuses to believe in the above 6 points, we have highest respect for them and our articles are not applicable to them.

For example, Ashfaqullah Khan, the great freedom fighter and a devout Muslim is a role model for us. We have a detailed article dedicated to him.

We may still have intellectual differences with them, but that is true between every two human beings even in same family and even among twins. It is not called hatred. It is called diversity.

Q: If you indeed respect tolerant Muslims, why do you ask them to embrace Vedic Dharma? Why this effort on proselytism?

A: This sounds of hypocrisy. A Mother Teresa gets a Nobel Prize for her missionary work aimed specifically at promoting Christianity and Agniveer is condemned for promoting Vedas!

1. We refuse to use force, coercion or fraud to convince anyone to believe in Vedas or embrace Vedic Dharma. We simply state the facts and share our views, which is a fundamental right. Every company sells its product. Pepsi asks you to drink its health-hazard and Coke will sell its own because some model smiles after drinking it. This is called unethical marketing in our view because they sell a harmful product on hype devoid of logic. Still that is considered ethical by everyone. We even idolize the cricketers and actors who act in these ads even though we know they are indulging in blatant falsehood.

But when an Agniveer refutes all allegations on Vedas, establishes the noble message of Vedas, proves that Vedas are unchangeable and oldest texts of humankind, and urges people to imbibe Vedic values if they appeal to them, this is called proselytism!

We call it honesty.

2. We do not consider Vedic Dharma to be a separate cult or religion. We consider it to be a natural property of all rational beings. We have stated multiple times that anyone who is rational and honest is Vedic in that perspective. The only prerequisite to be Vedic is to “Accept Truth and Reject Falsehood to best of their abilities and inner voice.”

If this is proselytism, we are only doing what all schools in world do, albeit more emphatically.

Q: Why then do you ask Muslims to convert to Hinduism?

A:

1. We did mention this in a few articles on Women Issues more from a practical and legal standpoint. Due to misdeeds of many Islamic representatives and their false preachings, women rights have been legally curtailed as per Islamic laws of most countries. Women don’t have divorce rights and many countries have completely stopped applications for even request for divorce from Muslim women. Further, believers in Hadiths and false translations of Qurans actually consider women to be inferior and insult women. We have cited purely from available translated texts of Islam as published by major publication houses of Islam and endorsed/ promoted by their prominent leaders.

We thus recommend that a woman should not marry any person who himself believes or supports a group that considers women as inferior and has a history of gender discrimination and torture. Thus a practical option for such couples to allay any future concerns would be to marry as per Hindu Family law that ensures these problems do not arise.

However this is only a recommendation and not a binding, purely from perspective of gender rights.

2. Further, many Muslims are unnecessarily targeted and doubted for their patriotism and tolerance because of bad deeds of terrorists and their mentors aka fanatic preachers of Islam. This problem has reached an alarming situation today. For such people also, it is better to either embrace Hinduism/ Vedic Dharma or announce vocally that they strongly condemn all those books/ translations/ people/ groups that believe in following:

– all the people who do not believe in what they believe would be doomed in Hell forever, regardless of howsomuch noble or good they are.

– its their divine goal to coerce people to embrace their believes by force, fear or fraud.

– any person who was earlier in their group but has now left the group deserves to be killed under charge of apostasy.

– people who do not believe in what they believe deserve inferior rights in life even though they are peaceful and tolerant.

– women are less intelligent than men and hence deserve unequal social and political rights.

– certain people are born superior and deserve better rights from birth and others are inferior owing to birth in an inferior family.

They should demand their religious leaders to clearly state their stand on above and condemn each of these vocally and clearly. Else they should quit that religious group in interest of humanity.

Note that because Vedic Dharma aka Hinduism is oldest religion of all human beings, and all humans are Vedic in some way or other, one should embrace Vedic Dharma proactively. A Muslim, Christian, Jew etc has to be Vedic in some aspect or other, but a Vedic follower need not follow any of these and may simply be a good man. The only prerequisite to be Vedic is to “Accept Truth and Reject Falsehood to best of their abilities and inner voice.”

So all rational ones should accept this universal natural religion.

This alone is the conversion that we seek.

We don’t ask anyone to deliberately quit their religion and adopt our ideology blindly. We instead appeal to all to respect Vedic Dharma. This was the religion of our ancestors, is most rational and tolerant and relevant for all human beings. So regardless of what else we believe in, at least be proud of our glorious heritage.

Nonetheless, even if one still disagrees, we respect his or her right to have his or her own set of assumptions in life. There is no fraud, force or coercion here. Only a very humble appeal to our loved family members.

Q: Why do you write against Zakir Naik so much then?

A:

1. It is the Zakir version of Islam that we vociferously condemn. Instead of cutting the branches, we believe in targeting the root. Zakir Naik being a mentor of terrorist mindset (and a very popular one) ,we are targeting that to offer our bit to destroy terrorism.

2. Zakir Naik as an individual is not our target. He is just one of the faces of a more fanatic mindset and mafia behind, that we intend to destroy through rationality and compassion.

3. Zakir Naik is a terrorist for us because he openly claims that all who quit Islam and propagate any other faith should be killed. He also believes that regardless of their good deeds, all non-Muslims shall burn in Hell forever. He considers that a man can marry again without taking previous wife’s permission unless specifically mentioned in a contract! He believes women should not be allowed bulk of professions except a few ones. Even women doctors (except gynecologists) are haram for him! Thus his fanatic stand coupled with anti-women ideology makes him a threat for society as per our views.

Thus we have a series of articles exposing his fanaticism. But this is only Zakir Islam. Interestingly, the most popular article on the site is “Why Muslims hate Zakir Naik so much” for which we have received accolades from lot many rational Muslims.

Q: Why do you condemn Prophet Muhammad then?

A:

While we personally do not believe in any Prophets or miracles, kindly cite one single article where we have condemned Muhammad.

We have indeed condemned those texts in Hadiths, Tafsirs and dubious translations of Quran that claim many bad things about Muhammad. Why only we, many eminent Muslim scholars have condemned it.

Q: Why are you against Christians then?

A:

1. Its a well-known fact that there is no original Bible. We have questioned only that sect of Christians that consider in fraudulent conversions and believes in only their brand of Christianity to be the way to some curious Heaven. In other words, we condemn only that brand of Christianity which believes in one or more of following:

– all the people who do not believe in what they believe would be doomed in Hell forever, regardless of howsomuch noble or good they are.

– its their divine goal to coerce people to embrace their believes by force, fear or fraud.

– any person who was earlier in their group but has now left the group deserves to be killed under charge of apostasy.

– people who do not believe in what they believe deserve inferior rights in life even though they are peaceful and tolerant.

– women are less intelligent than men and hence deserve unequal social and political rights.

– certain people are born superior and deserve better rights from birth and others are inferior owing to birth in an inferior family.

For others, we have no issues, except intellectual debates. These other tolerant groups may ignore our articles if the above points are not applicable to them.

2. Since most Christian societies take criticism in spirit and have liberalized significantly in this regard, they do not represent a threat like fanatic people in Zakir Islam. So we have only a small number of articles on them. And most of them have been written from works of respected scholars in Christian societies!

3. We are no way against Christians. In fact, on Love Jihad issue, we are working with Christians together in many areas like Kerala.

But yes, if the above criteria of tolerance are flouted, we, as responsible citizens, have right to question that specific group and thwart their malicious designs – be it Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Communist or whosoever.

Q: Why do you condemn Sufis then? They stood for peace and brotherhood.

A:

1. We have no objection to any school of thought based on peace, tolerance and brotherhood. If Sufis categorically state that all non-Muslims are also welcomed in Paradise if they do good deeds otherwise and that apostates have their rights to condemn Islam if they do so rationally, then we have highest respect for their love for human rights.

2. However, we have presented historical facts that role of several so-called Sufi saints like Chisti and Gazi Miyan was detrimental to national interest. We being rational beings, discard all stories of miracles as either cheap publicity stunts concocted by certain followers or cases of petty illusions. Almost all scientists and rationally guided educated people of world would agree with us on this. Cutting out this superstitious and miracle chaff, if we review the stories of Chisti and Gazi Miyan, we find that they supported the invaders. Gazi Miyan was himself an invader! So there is no way we can admire these and patriots like Ashfaqullah at the same time.

3. There have been many other Sufi poets and saints. We have high regard for their efforts towards universal brotherhood and devotion, whenever they acted in national interest. So we do not condemn Sufism in general. But we do question specific persons supposed to be Sufis who acted like agents of invaders or invaders themselves. This is not condemnation but constructive nationalist humanist analysis.

If someone can provide historical facts that they were not so and that they pass our 6 point test of tolerance and equality, we would be keen to change our stand on these individuals also.

4. By the way, Sufis are not under threat from Agniveer. Agniveer would rather enjoy their music and poems! The real threat comes from Jihadi or Wahabi Muslims who have been blowing Sufi shrines for years and more aggressively recently and Zakir Naik who considers Sufis as performing major sins. Agniveer would rather attempt to thwart such fanatic designs to blow up places, kill and hate.

Q: Why do you hate all Muslim rulers of history? What do you justify destruction of Babri Masjid? Is this not spread of hatred and venom?

A:

1. We have mentioned very clearly that none of these Muslim rulers had anything to do with Islam except for political benefit. Almost each and every Muslim ruler was a disgrace to humanity – Hindus and Muslims alike. This is view of even most eminent Muslim historians. Hassan Nisar states that we should not confuse Islam with Islamic history and Muslim masses with Muslim rulers.

2. We have provided evidences from the established books of history that the likes of Babur, Akbar, Shahjahan, Aurangzeb, Khilji, Ghazni, Qasim etc were literally butchers. Thus any monument constructed by them (if at all they constructed! Most such monuments were old monuments captured by them or built by demolishing places of worships of Hindus.) is a disgrace to humanity in general and more of a disgrace to Muslims.

3. We justify destruction of Babri Masjid because Babur was a homosexual and that is haram as per Islam. Further he was a mass murderer, drug addict and most inhuman person of his time. If Osama bin Laden deserves being hated, Babur deserves it even more.

Hence we justify destruction of this symbol of shame which is not a mosque in first place. Its only out of political conspiracy that so much of hue and cry is being raised over this fraud monument. We have many Muslim friends who have volunteered to build Ram temple there as their mark of respect from a national hero like Ram and to dissociate themselves from butchers like Babur and Aurangzebs who had nothing to do with Islam except demeaning it. We respect their sentiments.

Q: Why do you not condemn Gujarat riots of 2002?

A:

Who said so? We condemn every act of violence where innocents are killed. Be it Godhra, or post-Godhra riots, or Kashmir carnages, or bomb blasts in Pakistan, or fights in Somalia or Akbar’s loot of Chittor or Babur killing Afghans. Anyone indulging in or instigating violence over innocents is a psychopath as per our views. We fail to understand that from where did this notion creep up that we do not condemn Gujarat riots!

All we said once perhaps was that we consider media to be one of the biggest culprits in instigating Gujarat riots and sensationalizing it to cause hatred among communities.

Q: Why do you focus so much on religion?

A: Religion is not at all our focus. Our focus is rational tolerant humanity. Since religion forms a basic driving force for most of us and cause of major problems facing the earth, we humbly attempt to address this. Most of us would exhibit relatively high levels of rationality and criticality in other aspects of life like finances, economics, education, job, etc. But when it comes to religion, they would shut their minds and accept even the most bizarre serving on their plate without any questioning. This exceptional treatment of religious issues by masses has led to nurture of a whole big cartel of religious businessmen who would present anything that serves their selfish purpose in a religious packaging.

This, perhaps emanates from the wish of each of us to live beyond the death and our inability to comprehend the fundamental questions – Who we are? Where we came from? Where would we go?

Thus we see that almost all major problems facing the world are primarily caused because they are packaged as ‘religious’ and most people hence do not even question these. Here are a few examples of nuisances due to religious packaging and perhaps hardly any nuisance is left out which is more serious:

– Terrorism to achieve blessings of divine, destroy non-believers and avenge earlier damages

– Population growth as divine order

– Refusal to spread scientific education because that contradicts our religious teachings

– Hatred towards ‘others’ because they do not believe in what ‘we’ believe in

– Birth-based caste discrimination because our religion says ‘we’ were born superior

– Gender discrimination because our religion says that women are inferior and have lesser rights and scope of growth

– Wasteful spendings on pleasing the divine and trying to showcase ‘our religion’ is better

– Damage to environment

Then there are nuisances because many people turn completely atheists and refuse to believe in Law of Consequences of Actions (Law of Karma) out of frustration with existing religious packages. This abject materialism breeds another set of nuisances:

– Lack of accountability and urge to maximize selfish gains because ‘I live for myself and shall die one day’

– Prostitution and Adultery – because I must enjoy whatever way I can

– Erosion of ethical and moral values

– Commoditization of Women

– Tendency to fool people for short term gains – like the corporate-media-political- entertainment-sports mafia

– Feelings of depression, loneliness and emptiness causing huge number of other problems

– Alcoholism, drug abuse

– Damage to environment

In brief, because of either misuse of religion or rejection of spiritualism, 99% of the problems of the world exist. Only 1% issues like Tsunami and Earthquakes would remain to be tackled if we are able to address these problems which have a source in religion.

Thus we attempt to instill a sense of healthy inquisitiveness towards religion – the most dominating force of humankind today – and evolve to a stage where religion no more remains a source of problems but a source of spiritual strength. Hence our focus on religion.

Having said this, religion is still a minor focus for us. Secular topics like Health, Inspiration, Self-help, History, Nationalism, Global Vision and Education leading to Rational Spiritualism is our primary focus to which religion should evolve as end destination.

Q: Why are there so many hate-comments on your site?

A:

1. Kindly cite example of even one hate-comment from admins.

2. We believe in freedom of speech and hence allow everyone to express themselves.

3. We neither believe in comment policing nor have redundant resources to allocate on it. Only rarely do we moderate comments and most of the moderation is automatic based on certain in-built rules. Thus even adverse comments can creep in into the system. But as mature netizens, instead of worrying about them, we should take them in spirit. Truth cannot be scuttled by vague comments. And freedom of expression is the cornerstone of Internet discussions.

4. As a matter of fact, the number of hateful comments AGAINST Agniveer or its ideology overwhelm number of comments spewing hatred on other groups. Our rules are such that bulk of comments that denigrate other groups are automatically banned but comments AGAINST Agniveer are rarely blocked unless having a vulgar word.

5. If you think we should add a few more blacklisted words or rules to block certain obnoxious comments, please write to us. If its technically possible, we shall be keen to improve our existing rule base.

6. If there is a specific comment that is currently on site but deserves being moderated, please send us the hyperlink. We shall review it. (Only if we get only a few such requests. Otherwise it becomes a logistical nightmare)

We are not at all responsible for comments made by visitors.  Often comment sections turn into debate grounds, and in a way we support that. Because that leads to appreciation of truth.

We can only request all to desist from irrelevant comments and maintain respect and dignity while commenting. After all we all are one family!

Q: What if I am able to show excerpts from your articles that spew hatred or demean others?

A: Kindly inform us. If we have erred somewhere, we shall immediately make any corrections proactively. We carried out this appeal several times before also when such allegations were raised. But we have received not one single example of where we have written something that is not factual and is full of hatred instead. Hopefully we shall get these examples this time.

Q: What if I can refute your stand?

A: Please feel free to publish any rebuttals to our stand. There are already several sites that specifically counter the articles on Agniveer. We encourage this because this leads to more critical evaluation and judgment of truth.

Many challenge us to counter their rebuttals to our articles. Please note that it is humanly impossible for us to counter every other challenge. Everyone is requested to discuss them with a very active and extremely intellectual group of visitors on Agniveer and enlighten us all.

However, unfortunately, most of the rebuttals so far were merely emotional outbursts devoid of reasonable logic. We expect to have more rational rebuttals that can impress well-educated and intellectual minds and scientific brains. This would help us improve upon and amend the content to provide a more rational standpoint.

In summary, entire world is one single family for all of us. We love all in same manner as we love our brothers and sisters. Our aim is to promote rational humanity and this sense of ‘one family’ across all.

When someone is not part of your family, you may choose to ignore what they do even if that is harmful for them. But for your family members, you would always seek their benefits even if that causes you some inconvenience personally. This also does not mean that you would meddle with individual personal lives and force your own views on your family members. This simply means that you shall humbly state your views, respect your family members’ right to accept or reject your views but you shall always seek their well-being in heart, regardless of how they take your views. And when need arises, you shall be willing to do worthwhile actions for their well-being.

This is the spirit with which we have taken Agniveer mission. We hope that with everyone’s cooperation and support, this would be a success. And each of us would be an Agniveer in the truest sense of the word.

If you have any other doubts or concerns, please let us know so that we can address that as well.

Om Shantih Shantih Shantih

May Peace, Tolerance and Compassion prevail across all living beings for each other!

Namaste to entire family
Namaste

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

263 COMMENTS

  1. Hindus should unite and stand strong for Dharma and work together. We have to drop the apathy, discard our ego, along with ethnic and class distinctions and join together under one identity and for a primary cause. We must act like Arjuna did after having received the instructions of Lord Krishna to stand and fight for Dharma rather than going off into the forest to get away from everything and meditate, as if that would solve his dislike to do battle against those who had chosen the side of adharma.

    If Hindu Dharmists do not do this, and remain as they are, being apathetic and inactive, it is but a prescription for a slow extinction.
    They may lose it all, certainly the freedom to choose what they want to be.
    0nly we can change the future by being pro-active and united in this way.
    Then Sanatana-dharma will remain on the face of the earth as a path that we have the freedom to follow.
    Do we want to see Vedic Dharma as the tradition of the majority population in India in another 100 years, or will it become a thing of the past, like a museum piece?
    This is what has happened to the Maya, Inca, Egyptian civilizations, and many others.
    The choice of what happens in the future is ours by how we act and work together now.

    Dharma Rakshati Rakshitah. (Dharma protects those who protect it)
    -Stephen Knapp
    http://www.stephen-knapp.com/hindus_must_unite_or_face_extinction.htm

  2. Muslim religious conversion in Malapuram – Kerala.
    As reported, IG S Ananthakrishnan submitted the explosive report to Police Headquarters. No investigation has been conducted on the modus of operandi , reasons behind conversion or financial sources behind this massive conversions. According to report 1250 in 2006, 1458 in 2007, 1439 in 2008, 1134 in 2009 and 790 in 2010 got converted in past years.

  3. @Bagyaraj
    _________What is the effective way to control such conversion_______________
    I believe one & last effective way to stop conversion is “propagation of Veda aka truth” as Agniveer doing. We should all at our ends carry on this mission. Now in era of information & technology it is highly difficult to misguide the people & expect from them they will believe in fairy tales of Quran like 72 virgins, donkey flying, sex with a 9 years old child, fear of Allah’s punishment of eternal hell, creation of Shatan by Allah to misguide the people.

    • @ Ram,
      These are my views.Please add your points on this.

      Lack of Knowledge in our culture, Heritage and religious Books
      • Let us have a daily or weekly discussion in a specific subject regarding our culture and heritage through mails. This will help us to learn and teach a lot.
      • Learn our religious books and teach our children and other family members,friends etc.
      • Learning and teaching should be logically, rationally and scientifically.
      • When somebody arises some doubts if you don’t know tell frankly that you don’t know instead of giving wrong answers.
      • What ever books required is available in the internet now a days or we can arrange it from other medium.
      • This method will help us to remove the lack of knowledge about our culture and heritage.

      Poverty and low living standard
      • Provide a small % of your monthly income to some organization which you trust to help poors.

      Illiteracy
      • Try to arrange some classes in your locality if possible or search for such organizations which do such activities and arrange programs.

      Some negatives (Anachaaraas, Durachaaras) in Hindu religion
      • First we need to find out what is Sadachaaras,Anachaaras and Durachaaras and try to eradicate those first from our family and then from society if possible.

      I welcome all Hindus to be a part of this discussion and give valuable comments.

      • We can also create blogs and other websites to preach others what is greatness of Sanaatan Dharma. We need not worry because our knowledge is accepted by the entire world. We might also have some volunteer who can take responsibility of eradicating illiteracy. Telling more and more people to learn is another method to save Dharma. These days, website development is simple & becoming cheap. We can also spread awareness by whichever method possible. There are various frauds who tell lies about Sanaatan Dharma. If we can refute them and rationally clarify the truth, nothing is better.

        The most important step is: Attack on superstitions. If anybody knows some magazine to eliminate it, that can happen.

        More detailed description is given here: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/hindus_must_unite_or_face_extinction.htm

        Unity is must, else we will die. Whatever can be done, must be done. A Hindu loving government can be a simple beginning. All scholars, must reply…

      • God is Great,
        Yes you are correct . But saying something wrong and try to establishing something different than what they are doing through out their life till now will not work 100%. I think insisting and teaching all to take only good from all religious books will work up to 95%.
        Level of understanding will be different to different persons and each of them had to be given messages in proper wavelength. For an example most of the Aryas here says no body should practice Idol worship as Vedas does not promote it but my opinion is a little different. I will say those who had reach the level of understanding Vedas or devote god with out an image should not need an idol to worship. But all Hindus should learn the great messages of Vedas and thus elevate themselves.

        Please share your opinion………..

      • Wishing a happy 26th January to everyone

        Bagyaraj Sir,

        You are right but how will it do? I mean, what should be medium? There is good in all religious books but Christians & Mohammedans tell to accept their books in totality whether it be good OR bad. So, we cannot rely totally on telling the good in books.

        Logic of idol worship:
        Vedas declare that there is no image of GOD but nowhere they say – GOD is not in image. Are you getting my point?
        Idol worship was popped up to make humans respectful towards everything even stones. After all, nature is nothing but manifestation of GOD.
        इतनी ममता नदियो को भी जहाँ माता कहके बुलाते है। इतना आदर इनसान तो क्या पत्थर भी पूजे जाते है। Ref: Bollywood movie Poorab Aur Pashchhim
        That’s why there is a conflict between meanings of word Namaskaar.
        Namaskaar means: आपमें निहित परमेश्वर को मेरा नमन है।
        As opposed to: आपको मेरा नमन है।
        Similarly, I bow before GOD within that idol. I don’t bow before the idol. If idol worship is considered this way, Not even Vedas will have objection.
        Similarly, Advaita is also misunderstood these days. That was made to indicate: We are not body which is born to decay and die but Souls. The souls are not slaves but independent to do what they want. So, we should focus on soul rather than body. World was called Maayaa to indicate that Reality is inside NOT outside. Non duality was only said to move us from materialism to spirituality.
        So, there are many other misconceptions which must be cleared. What do you say???

      • GIG,
        Wishing you to a happy republic day

        You are correct . But my opinion is if we teach the Hindus about their culture rather than focusing on Muslims and Christians it will be more working. We Indians have more than 2000 basic literature books. Is it a problem for us to keep a Bible and Quran among these books. In the same time we should have to refute their serious claims against out culture and heritage. But aim is not to argue and win but to learn and teach.

        Publishing articles in a blog or website will not work fully. People are having a very busy life and they will not open and read these articles and for such people audio or video messages will be good.It helps them to use them even while driving car. The messages had to be given by audio and video. If possible agniveer help us to publish all their articles in different languages and in audio or video format and upload it in you tube and in this site.

        Secondly what you said on Idol worship is exactly correct and so it is not good to say Idol worship is a sin with some illogical reasons as Quran says. Idol Worship as per Hindus has an entirely different meaning and so let us teach the ideology and science behind Idol worship to the majority of Hindus who practice Idol Worship.

        Misconceptions are to be numbered and to be cleared by defining the correct meaning by video or audio messages and if possible upload in you tube. Let us all forward such messages to thousands……..

      • @ GIG,
        Very Fine – Let us do whatever we can , to bring this channel among public.
        Thanks for the information and let me go through this in detail for further comments.

  4. According to Gospel For Asia-a recent issue of the Texas-based magazine:
    “The Indian sub-continent with one billion people, is a living example of what happens when Satan rules the entire culture… India is one vast purgatory in which millions of people …. are literally living a cosmic lie! Could Satan have devised a more perfect system for causing misery?”

    But such attitudes are nothing new, of course. Christians have waged such ‘spiritual warfare’ against their enemies for centuries, and with the same kind of language.
    There are two important points here. First, we must not assume that the ‘developed’ West is free from wilful ignorance. Indeed, wilful ignorance is often a very useful weapon. We need enemies, and, as religious people, we need demons. The utility of Islamophobia is a case in point.Besides, there’s a useful role for such bigotry within the system: as a foil for the liberal powerful to prove their liberal credentials.
    And ‘spiritual warfare’, for the evangelical Christian movement, is not just a matter of prayers and metaphor: it is also, very decisively, a matter of ‘virtuous’ troops, tanks, and drones.

    • Let’s see the real population of Hindus as per 2011
      India – 67% Hindus
      Kerala – 37% Hindus
      If you go for a census you will not find this figure because most of the lower caste people who converted did not change religion officially for getting the benefits from government.
      Christian Missionaries are doing wide conversion through hooks and crooks. Dr.Gopalakrishnan and a few others are doing a great work in spreading our heritage and culture.

      • What is the effective way to control such conversion?

        I request all to have a healthy discussion on this

        First we need to find out what are the reasons of conversion?
        From my point of view there are mainly 4 reasons
        1) Lack of Knowledge in our culture,Heritage and religious Books
        2) Poverty and low living standard
        3) Illiteracy
        4) Some negatives(Anachaaraas,Durachaaras) in Hindu religion

        How can it be cured and what each of us can do on this?

        If somebody is interested we can have a discussion in this subject.

      • Before we talk, lets try to understand why missionaries do not dare to go to Islamic/communist countries? The answer will get us too the root – pseudo-one-sided-secularism of Hindus, anti-Hindu government, etc…

      • Many Western liberals/leftists do detest the classical Western heritage. They have waged a long-term and concerted attack against the Western literary canon.
        They often portray the West’s great historical thinkers as ‘dead white guys’, ridicule and attack their own Judeo-Christian past (which is then, unfortunately, extended to all other religions, and ‘religion’ itself), etc. Many of the leftist intellectuals who have dominated American academia clearly have an ideologically driven crypto-Marxist agenda.
        What is ‘good’ in their eyes isn’t necessarily what is explicitly Western, but what represents the ‘oppressed’, the ‘disenfranchised’, the ‘lower’ class, race, religion, gender, ethnic group, language, etc., in any given perceived (on their part) antithetical social-cultural coupling.
        Yet, their theories often embed deep and invisible Biblical epistemologies, and, furthermore, they have failed in impacting the West’s own mainstream power structure while having colonized India’s empowered intellectuals because of the latter’s vulnerability to mimic. The Manifest Destiny doctrine of 19th century America expressed white supremacy in terms of ‘freedom’, ‘democracy’, and ‘fitness to self-govern’.
        Ironically, today’s leftist activism has inadvertently played into the hands of the reincarnated Manifest Destiny in the form of the Bush Worldview.
        Meanwhile, positive aspects of Hindu culture are omitted, including: yoga, meditation, vegetarianism, ecological theologies, history of Indian science/technology, history of Indian economy prior to colonial disruption, etc.
        Because these themes would demolish the negative stereotypes, students are discouraged from pursuing them on the basis that they are not the ‘real’ Hinduism, i.e. they are not Hinduphobic.
        Those who persist in pursuing these topics are attacked as ‘chauvinistic’, ‘killers of Muslims’, ‘rapists’ and ‘fascists’, and other demonology that has become standard weaponry.

      • Christianity refutes Islam:
        Islam’s claim that the Koran is the exact words of God, and hence is perfect and final, is simply unsustainable in Christianity.
        For if this were valid, it would make Christianity obsolete and superseded by Islam.
        Why would one need an older version of God’s word if he has sent a new version specifically to replace the older one, as is claimed by Islam? Christian theologians do not accept Koran as the perfect record of the final word of God.
        Furthermore, Islam also demands (without room for negotiations or ambiguity whatsoever) that the Kaaba (located in Mecca) is absolutely unique, cannot be replicated, and is the only direction in which prayer must be offered five times daily.
        Clearly, this would undermine Christian institutions’ authority to collect donations, interpret the canons, provide the ‘true history’, etc.
        Bottom line:
        History-Centric claims that are necessary conditions to be a Muslim are simply impossible for Christianity to accept.

      • Islam refutes Christianity:
        Muslims definitely accept Jesus as a prophet of great importance and respect him as such. But Muslims simply cannot accept the Christian claims that Jesus
        (i) was the Son of God,
        (ii) had a Virgin Birth, or
        (iii) was Resurrected. These Christian claims would make Islam irrelevant and contradict Islam’s essential historical purpose.
        If Jesus made the supreme sacrifice by which humans may get redeemed, then why is there any need for Prophet Mohammed or the Koran?
        The vast majority of Muslim clergy teach that he was a great prophet, as were many dozens of other Abrahamic prophets, but he was no Son of God, nor had a Virgin Birth and, most of all, he was not Resurrected after being crucified.
        Yet, these three claims of Christianity are necessary to the legitimacy of Christianity and are non-negotiable.
        Bottom line:
        Christianity’s History-Centrism cannot be accommodated within Islam’s History-Centrism.

      • Hindus arrogantly assume that other religions want to be the same as Hinduism, and hence they feel that they are doing these other religions a favor. Against this one may point out that the traditional Hindu teachings make a clear distinction between valid and not valid religious claims, by separating them as dharma and adharma, sat (truth) and asat (falsity), devika and asuric, etc.

      • Sameness is making Hinduism irrelevant and redundant. It is sliding Hinduism towards extinction by dilution and assimilation, in the same manner as Christianity’s inculturation strategy made many pagan religions extinct. It positions Hinduism as a takeover target by History-Centric predators, with a friendly takeover of some components and a hostile takeover and/or outright cultural genocide of other components.

      • For instance, Swami Vivekananda successfully popularized Hinduism in 19th century America. But later, many of his important Western disciples and sympathizers genericized Hinduism.
        Several of them eventually did U-Turns back into Western identity and Western thought. Perennialism and the New Age movement were by-products of such movements. Meanwhile, the mainstream History-Centric Christianity did not dissolve itself or melt itself into sameness, but, on the contrary, it strengthened its positioning by appropriating from Hinduism.
        Opportunistic Hindu gurus: The Sameness Myth took a quantum leap in the 1960s when many Hindu gurus arrived in America. They attracted huge followings and piled up vast donations by playing the sameness game to appeal to the pop culture at the expense of authenticity. They lowered the bar for Westerners to enter into pop Hinduism, but this also lowered the bar to their exit once the fad had died and once enough components from Hinduism had been successfully appropriated into Western systems.

      • Hindu leaders simply lump all ‘secularists’ and ‘leftists’ as the ‘same’, because they are untrained in Enlightenment and Post-Enlightenment theories.
        Yet individuals (including Indians) who are grounded in these Western theories drive global culture, human rights, law, business codes, property rights, literature and media.
        This means that Hindu leaders are simply obsolete.

      • As a Hindu, spiritual advancement through yoga was independent of the history of Patanjali who wrote the Yoga-Sutras and of any knowledge about his life history. Furthermore, the effectiveness of the Vedic mantras was independent of the personal history of the Vedic rishis, and the Vedas were considered a-purusheya (authorless); the practices of Tantra were not contingent upon belief in the history of anyone; the effect of bhajans (devotional songs) was not based on any belief in the history of the bhakti saints or the histories of any deities. Finally, deities were not historical persons but were ahistorical forces and intelligences just like the gravitation force; also, that many Hindus had personified these forces through the poetic language of their praises, as they acknowledged their inter-dependency in Nature.

      • Dear X, OM, Bagyaraj, Niraj, Nitha, Kailash, Ravi and others.
        सादर प्रणाम!

        भ्राताओ, कृपया मात्र समस्या न बताइए, यह भी बता दीजिए कि उसका समाधान कैसे करना है? समस्या तो सबको पता ही है – ईसाई तथा मुसलमान दूसरो को शांति से नही जीने देते। बात केवल भारत की नही है –

        मिस्र का ही उदाहरण लीजिए – वहाँ सूमेरिया सभ्यता थी। जब ईसाई आक्रमण करने पहुँचे तब उनके मन्दिर तोड़ दिए। जैसे हम कहते है कि Jesus Christ हमारे आराध्य श्रीकृष्ण का जीवन है, वैसे मिस्र के भी कहते थे कि Jesus Christ हमारे देवता Horus है। उन्होने तो कई सारी समानताए भी बतानी चाही। वह सुनकर ईसाईयो ने आक्रमण कम कर दिया लेकिन आधे मिस्र पर अपना अधिकार जमा लिया। फिर मुसलमान बर्बर प्राणियो ने मिस्र पर आक्रमण किया। न केवल सूमेरिया की सभ्यता को नष्ट किया बल्कि वहाँ प्रतिस्थापित ईसाईयो को भी मार पीट कर भगा दिया। वहाँ की शिक्षा प्रणाली पर भी अपनी क्रूरता का परिणाम दिखाया। आज मिस्र के बच्चो को ये भी नही पता कि प्राचीन सूमेरिया था क्या? आज उस महान सभ्यता का नाम भी लेने वाला कोई नही है। क़ालिफ अल – मामोन ने तो Pyramid तक तोड़ने चाहे पर शिल्पकारो की कला ऐसी थी कि वह तोड़ नही पाया। Pyramid तो बनाए जाते थे मृत नृपो के पार्थिव शरीर की रक्षा के लिए। सदियो पश्चात भी लाश उनमें सड़ती नही थी। उन्हे नष्ट करना इतना आसान नही है। यूनान का उदाहरण ले। बेबिलोनिया में पहले पारसी गए लेकिन लड़ने नही रहने के लिए। जब 700 ईस्वी में वहाँ मुसलमान गए तो वहाँ भी अपनी बर्बरता का उदाहरण दिखा दिया। वहाँ की सभ्यता भी नष्ट कर दी। फिर वहाँ ईसाई आए और अब मुसलमान अल्पसंख्यक है। आज यूनान में रूढिवादी ईसाई परम्परा है। 7 आश्चर्य में से एक Artemis का मन्दिर भी नष्ट कर दिया। आज अधिकांश यूनानीयो को यह नही पता की प्राचीन समय में वह क्या करते थे। फारस (ईरान) को ही ले। वहाँ भी मुसलमान का डंका है। जहाँ मिस्र में सुन्नी मुसलमान है – वही ईरान में शिया मुसलमान है। पारसी धर्म ईरान में ही अल्पसंख्यक बना हुआ है। मीज़ोपोटामिया (ईराक़) भी मुसलमानो के आधीन है।

        अब बात आती है भारत की। न प्राचीन सूमेरिया जीवित है न बेबिलोनिया न यूनान। फारस भी लुप्तता के अति निकट है। सब पर मुसलमान / ईसाईयो का कब्जा है। प्राचीन भारत आज भी जीवित है। हिन्दू धर्म तीसरा सबसे बड़ा धर्म है। अत: भारत को बचाने का कार्य अब हमे ही करना है। मुसलमान और…

      • Om,X,Ram,God is Great,
        Missionaries are getting a big economic support from Christian Countries and our politicians are giving all support to do their activities and is a fact. Missionaries mainly targeting illiterate and tribal people and they can easily convert these people through money or by creating fear.One of the best way to stop this is to educate and full fill their needs.For that we need to get united and had to do something to this society with the help of present trusted organization in our own locality if any. If we cannot work up to that extent we should learn and teach our self and our family about our dharma. The another way is to change the coming generations by giving proper education on our religious scriptures. If somebody try to denigrate our scriptures by wrong messages let them have the capability to counter it by real knowledge.
        Missionaries are getting support from Western Countries to convert people in India by denigrating our culture.All of us know this fact but still most of us never support our spiritual Gurus like Sai Baba,Matha Amrithanadamayi,Sree Sree ravisanker etc .Moreover we are ready to point fingers to them blaming they are Human Gods.In reality these people are doing services with out any hidden agenda of religious conversion.Why can’t we support such great activities?
        We support Mother Teresa.No doubt that her mission is great and it is very difficult to compare his works.But she and her group had also a hidden agenda of Religious conversion and you can see the evidence when you go to Culcutta kali temple still now.

        Please share your opinion .

  5. I also do not believe in idol worship but even then there is a high degree of symbolism in them. For example see the two idols of Shiva and Vishnu (and his incarnations). One symbolizes the path of renunciation, the oter symbolizes the path of yoga. One can co-relate to any of them and reach the final state of yoga(or union). Instead of explaining them the symbolism, people like Agnivesh and Kumar Vishwas attack their faith directly. While they are doing puja etc. these pundits also know that they do not put idols over there. They just prepare the havan kund and do normal havan which purifies the surroundings.

    • Hari (vishnu) means the taker of the offerings. In this mode god lives with us, he takes our offerings and blesses us in the life we live. Hara or Har(Shiva ) means the giver of offerings. He renounces the worldly offerings. He sits in solitude and he is very quick to give you whatever you ask.

  6. I am doing a small write up on our Rishis’ . Mind you Born in india and shutting ones eyes at the real world and sarcastically describingt vedanta as only searching in the dark room for the black cat which is not there as the advocates of materialism are those who have condemned spiritualism.
    Most of the Great Hermits who attained the status of Atma Rama by following the spiritual and cultureal tradition are those who venerated the material levels even while they exceeded them.
    a. Sree Sankara
    b. Sree Chattampi Swamikal
    c. Sree Narayana Gurudeva
    d. Sree Neelakanta Gurupadara
    There are many great hermits like them who had attained the status of atma rama in the modern days. The gods they meidated upon have different names and forms. The places of their incarnation along with their concept deserve to be treated as important.
    Mind you The Atama Rama State is beyond the power of the human eye. They have never cursed any one.. but have only revealed the facts…
    Unto Him..now and forever…

  7. for chp5 and ver 32 .. read my posts you will understand. I hope you are must knowledgeable and sain- minded individual..
    Cause and action performed by your own prophet is contradictory to
    chapter 5 and 32..
    spare 15 to 20 min if you can read my posts.. and i with whole heatedly welcome you to the world of vedas which is the only ultimate truth… Don’t waste your time..do not convert…

  8. I am doing a small write up on our Rishis’ . Mind you Born in india and shutting ones eyes at the real world and sarcastically describingt vedanta as only searching in the dark room for the black cat which is not there as the advocates of materialism are those who have condemned spiritualism.
    Most of the Great Hermits who attained the status of Atma Rama by following the spiritual and cultureal tradition are those who venerated the material levels even while they exceeded them.
    a. Sree Sankara
    b. Sree Chattampi Swamikal
    c. Sree Narayana Gurudeva
    d. Sree Neelakanta Gurupadara
    There are many great hermits like them who had attained the status of atma rama in the modern days. The gods they meidated upon have different names and forms. The places of their incarnation along with their concept deserve to be treated as important.
    Mind you The Atama Rama State is beyond the power of the human eye. They have never cursed any one.. but have only revealed the facts…
    Unto Him..now and forever…

  9. for chp5 and ver 32 .. read my posts you will understand. I hope you are must knowledgeable and sain- minded individual..
    Cause and action performed by your own prophet is contradictory to
    chapter 5 and 32..
    spare 15 to 20 min if you can read my posts.. and i with whole heatedly welcome you to the world of vedas which is the only ultimate truth… Don’t waste your time..do not convert…

  10. I am doing a small write up on our Rishis’ . Mind you Born in india and shutting ones eyes at the real world and sarcastically describingt vedanta as only searching in the dark room for the black cat which is not there as the advocates of materialism are those who have condemned spiritualism.
    Most of the Great Hermits who attained the status of Atma Rama by following the spiritual and cultureal tradition are those who venerated the material levels even while they exceeded them.
    a. Sree Sankara
    b. Sree Chattampi Swamikal
    c. Sree Narayana Gurudeva
    d. Sree Neelakanta Gurupadara
    There are many great hermits like them who had attained the status of atma rama in the modern days. The gods they meidated upon have different names and forms. The places of their incarnation along with their concept deserve to be treated as important.
    Mind you The Atama Rama State is beyond the power of the human eye. They have never cursed any one.. but have only revealed the facts…
    Unto Him..now and forever…

  11. for chp5 and ver 32 .. read my posts you will understand. I hope you are must knowledgeable and sain- minded individual..
    Cause and action performed by your own prophet is contradictory to
    chapter 5 and 32..
    spare 15 to 20 min if you can read my posts.. and i with whole heatedly welcome you to the world of vedas which is the only ultimate truth… Don’t waste your time..do not convert…

  12. You know what Brother.. Ravan is a rishi putra .. and he did not attain hell after Ram annihilating him.. He was elivated by our Avatram purusha Bhagvan Ram.. … However.. my question cannot be answered by your zakir .. Mahendra pal ne jo swal kiya tha aapke zakir ko, who swalal bhi hai mere prashanothri mein.. aapko qayamat ka time deta hoon. Read my post from 1st to last and then start answering one by one.. and pls make sure you answer from your stand point.. Be honest when you perform an action.

  13. sree whats ur question can u ask me in one sentence..
    Now i give u a open challenge that show me atleast on verse from the Quran which is against humanity..
    u talk about war between we Muslim and christian, I think u have a mind of RAVAN (saitaan) which always think about fighting..
    do u know , What Quran says in :-
    Surah Maida ch: 5 —- ver: 32

    “If any one kill a person – unless it be For murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he kills the whole people..”

    and u say war between christian and we Muslim, Quran says:-
    “O muslims people who will b closest to u will b christian, ”

    sree u have gone mad in this controversy of religion..

  14. You know what Brother.. Ravan is a rishi putra .. and he did not attain hell after Ram annihilating him.. He was elivated by our Avatram purusha Bhagvan Ram.. … However.. my question cannot be answered by your zakir .. Mahendra pal ne jo swal kiya tha aapke zakir ko, who swalal bhi hai mere prashanothri mein.. aapko qayamat ka time deta hoon. Read my post from 1st to last and then start answering one by one.. and pls make sure you answer from your stand point.. Be honest when you perform an action.

  15. sree whats ur question can u ask me in one sentence..
    Now i give u a open challenge that show me atleast on verse from the Quran which is against humanity..
    u talk about war between we Muslim and christian, I think u have a mind of RAVAN (saitaan) which always think about fighting..
    do u know , What Quran says in :-
    Surah Maida ch: 5 —- ver: 32

    “If any one kill a person – unless it be For murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he kills the whole people..”

    and u say war between christian and we Muslim, Quran says:-
    “O muslims people who will b closest to u will b christian, ”

    sree u have gone mad in this controversy of religion..

  16. Since the mid-1960s, the evangelical movement has systematically computerised its entire global operation, creating huge databases of information on its non-Christian enemies, centralising administration, and linking some 500 million ‘Christian computers’ worldwide for the purposes of fighting ‘spiritual warfare’ against non-believers in strategic places.

    In their view,” the Indian sub-continent with one billion people, is a living example of what happens when Satan rules the entire culture… India is one vast purgatory in which millions of people …. are literally living a cosmic lie! Could Satan have devised a more perfect system for causing misery?”

    Christians have waged such ‘spiritual warfare’ against their enemies for centuries, and with the same kind of language.
    What is new is the vastly increased facility, offered by the electronic media, for fighting such a war.

    Most of the major evangelical corporations (like World Vision, Campus Crusade, Youth with a Mission, and Samaritan’s Purse) operate in partnership with the US government in its pursuit of foreign policy goals.

    World Vision, which is effectively an arm of the State Department, is perhaps the most notable example of this. There is also the benefit of a custom-built legislation, with the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998 providing necessary sanction to bring errant nations into line.

    And ‘spiritual warfare’, for the evangelical Christian movement, is not just a matter of prayers and metaphor: it is also, very decisively, a matter of ‘virtuous’ troops, tanks, and drones.

  17. Maoists supporting Christian Missionaries in forced conversion
    Archana Bhagat, a 21-year old Vanvasi woman from Jashpur Nagar district of Chhattisgarh, made her way to Delhi to give her testimony before a Tribunal comprising of eminent bureaucrats, retired judges, ambassadors, academicians and journalists on September 5. Her husband was brutally assassinated by missionaries for resisting an onslaught on his Vanvasi culture two years ago, leaving Archana to fend for herself and her ten months baby.

    The proceedings of the Tribunal were conducted under the banner of Forum for Social Justice. The Tribunal comprised of eminent people like former DG of Punjab Police Shri KPS Gill, senior writer Bhavdeep Kang, former IPS Shri PC Dogra, Air Marshal (retd) Shri RS Bedi, Swami Shantatmananda, Justice (retd) Shri Suresh Soni, Justice (retd) Shri BK Gupta, Justice (retd) Shri DS Tewatia, former Ambassador Shri Prabhat Shukla, director of Centre for Policy Studies Dr JK Bajaj, Smt Usha Goel, Shri Vinod Bawari, Shri Shaurya Doval and Col. (retd) Shri PK Panda. The Tribunal, after preparing a detailed report, will present it the Union Minister of Tribal Affairs, different Commissions and authorities with a memorandum within one month.

    Archana Bhagat’s heartbreaking story is not in isolation. More than 100 Vanvasis from different parts of India were in Delhi from September 5 to 6 to appeal to the government authorities to take preventive measures to save their culture, economy and the distinguished way of life.

  18. To Vajra and his gang,
    Try reading the Quran without the hadith explanations or meanings..see if the Quran contradicts itself..forget whether you agree with it because of your likes/dislikes in human behaviour.but see if the book contradicts itself and if the word of Allah contradicts itself on the merit of it’s own words in the Quran then you may gloat..But when i read the Quran on it’s own without any scholar or hadith interpretation and just my own meaning from reading it..the book truly does seem holy and beautiful to me..what do you think?
    Read it as it was meant to be read..as the scripture that it came as…you guys at agniveer up for the challenge?
    remember don’t use hadith or scholars to interpret what you read from the Quran..just use your own will of truth.
    Ghost.

      • Wow,jinn.
        what happened there brother?i asked you and you gang(cus that how you guys come across as like talibans)and before condemning the quran on people that can’t follow it the same way the hindus/vedaist’s who also can’t follow the word of thier scriptures.
        oh and grow up..you guys don’t relaise that you fail on so many accounts by reacting like all of the other extremists out there that if i were agniveer,just like the taliban and the crusader..i would be fearful of death cus of what i put on this earth.
        i haven’t found no difference between you and everyone else..the kalki will not only destroy the muslim’s,christians but judging by your sites joint attitude and i say this cus even tho you guys pretend to practice dharma all i see is you practicing drama.
        seriously grow up..be different than your ancestors and be different to the kaffirs of the vedas..
        i am shocked and appalled and the level of unitellignece on this site..if only you practiced what you preacehd maybe then we wouldn’t even have this site and we’ll have a whole bunch of good brother hindu’s that are here to help the other very few good muslim’s,christian and athiest’s etc…
        i used the term ghost for a reason little brother why did you use “jinn”???

      • @Ghost(akak non-existent)
        “seriously grow up..be different than your ancestors and be different to the kaffirs of the vedas..”
        Buddy, to be different is to be a Hindu. We can be theists, atheist, agnostics; any thing we want to be. Our is not exactly a religion. Religion is dogma, which is exactly what your Islam is all about.
        “if only you practiced what you preacehd maybe then we wouldn’t even have this site and we’ll have a whole bunch of good brother hindu’s that are here to help the other very few good muslim’s,christian and athiest’s etc…”
        I don’t know the exact proportion of Hindus practicisng the Vedas ,but it is beyond doubt the majority of Muslims are indeed practicing their religion correctly to the tee; no wonder the entire entire dar-ul-harb is bearing the brunt of your “peace”! And, it is because of people such as you that sites like Agniveer/Satyagni/FaithFreedom etc. exist. Otherwise, none of us would have neede Agniveer and others.

    • @Ghost (a.k.a non-existent spectre and a figment of someone’s losy imagination)
      Hadith or no Hadith, the Quran is still retartded, illogical and full of contradictions.

      “before condemning the quran on people that can’t follow it the same way the hindus/vedaist’s who also can’t follow the word of thier scriptures”
      Buster, no particular book binds us Hindus. Frankly speaking, no particular belief binds us in the ignorance of dogma, just like your cult Islam. We Hindus are utterly free to transcend our own limits and guess what, the Vedas theselves give us permission, nay implore us to do so in our quest for finding our true place in the scheme of things.

  19. Agniveer,

    Atharva Veda 12:5:62 Kill the people by cutting them by tearing them by burning them into ashes by blowing those who speak ill of the Vedas.

    HOW CAN YOU SAY VEDAS DOES NOT SPREAD HATE

    • @Slave:

      I can say that Vedas dont spread hate because as a Vedic believer:

      (a)I am firstly NOBODY’S SLAVE.
      (b)I dont outsource correct thinking to someone else – oh for instance a 7th century cave dweller, etc.
      (c)I am not arrogant enough to believe that my religious experience ought to be the only correct way to approach the divine.
      (d)I believe God/Karmic law will judge people based on actions more than unprovable beliefs.

      All this anway does NOT take away from the fact that nearly everyone in the world acknowledges that it is Islam that is the most violent ideology ever – it beats Nazism, Communism, Crusades (not by much), etc. by a respectable margin.

      See this and try to come out of the delusion of your religion that is based on a stupid mediocre desert war manual.

    • @slave of allah
      Thanks for giving that quotation about atharvaveda. Uptil now I have only read bhagwadgeeta and misuse verses whch tell to fight kauravas and misuse it to mean muslims.

      havent read the vedas , now thanks for giving me this verse, now it is even easier to misuse vedas to provoke people into fighting muslims.. Aapne mera kaam kum kar diya.

      I am a lunatic, I use every ditry trick in the book to fight you muslims.
      Dhanyawaad.

  20. Top secretes are open now :- ALLAH Say to muhammad only truth, because muhammad was own search and try hardly what is the original truth. He was stops all searches and trails and he got it.but he will be very afraid.and now he say o mercyful allah. But this mercy comes was very hardly. Muhammad was thinking allah was a mercyful but all lazy arabs are sleeping and did not get hard work about truth of allah. He was additional thought join to quran that was FEAR,HELL,HEAVEN,KAYAMAT. All arabs are awaken But some lazy arabs are sleeping, now muhammads saying I AM THE LAST PROPHETS. So all arabs are awaken.But muhammad all knows that arabs are very lazy so he thinking how fears of allah entering his body, he developing khatana.

  21. I ask a few questions of muslims. 1) why allah loves only arab? Why quran revelation only arabian language? 2) why allah did not see others civilizations,indian, chainise,tibetian,srilankans,mayan,mexican,jarman,france,korian,japan,thailand,nepal? 3)why allah say via muhhamad? Supply a little book? Why allah not supply a powerful weapon ? Only fears are activated about allah, present like atom bomb.3)why allah messages not timely?allahs sun where be located?4)why allah not say freashly? Why helps Older prophates? Why examples Older revelation torat,injil?4) why quran say, start namely allah? not say start namely mans?5)allah was a forgiveing and mercyful why killing mans and womans? 6)why allah is selfish? said quran was a best book? 7) muhhammad was not writing and readding,how made quran?

  22. @abu ibrahim
    Most hindus HAVE condemned the hindu terrorist attacks and are still condemning modi, thats why BJP never came back to power. I am a fanatic, I support hindu terrorism, but average hindu doesnt.

    Leaving worldly responsibility and going to himalayas. do you even know hinduism? AFTER you lived yur life and after your grown up children are married then yur responsibilities are over, then go to himalayas according to hinduism, which also avoids the saas, bahu dramas . where does running away from respobsibility come from?
    Dont talk about something you dont know.

    • @ abu ibrahim

      Come on you stone age ape….do u have an answer

      to all apes on earth: Sorry guys, insulted you comparing you with this Muslim.

  23. @ truthseeker??????

    Whenever I listen arbi word I get irritated ——dear first of all this forum is not for knowing about what`s your like & dislike. when u don`t know anything about arabi language then don`t put this type of foolish comments ( there is saying that ” kutte ko ghee hajam nahi hota”)

    dear….. who told you that muslim consider these arab like Babur, Gori, Gajani, other many as a role models. (Gajani is Aamir khan `s movie & i have one frd “sachin babur” )

    how many muslims you know who name there children like babur, gori, Gajani…….?????

    “He is within you & you need to concentrate on God within yourself as Veda mentioned. then why

    your ancestors who used to go in jungle to search of silence where they can meditate properly.

    what an idea sir ji that if you want pray go to “JUNGLE”

    • @ abu ibrahim

      “kutte ko ghee hajam nahi hota” – mind ur damn words…I guess you are down to your basic instincts of uncalled aggression. The same can be said about you, but I dont want to offend dogs by comparing them with you. Actually i cant think of an animal or anything that i would compare you with. Probably i should just call you a muslim.

      the problem is not with you naming your children as babur, ghori, or ghajani. The problem is with you teaching your whole race their principles. I havent seen a Muslim yet condemning Kasab on this website. All that you and your brainless race does is to breed hatred, kill people, support Pak and breed illiterate children.

      Well they used to go to jungles so that the person is cut off from all wordly pleasures. He has no responsibilities and can be at peace. If you were to meditate for long and you have friends visiting your home you tend to end your meditation and go and meet them. This doesnt happen in jungles. hope the point is understood.

      • @ hardcorehindu

        “”I havent seen a Muslim yet condemning Kasab on this website””

        i also haven`t seen any hindu condeming about “Gujarat roits”, ajmer blast , malegaon blast.

        no body condeming the hindu terrorist sadhavi, swami asimanand…..

        they used to go to jungles so that the person is cut off from all wordly pleasures. He has no responsibilities and can be at peace.

        what is this bullshit that when you have to pray god leave your home & throw away all your responsibility throw your wife & children & go to jungle for samadhi…. wow

      • “i also haven`t seen any hindu condeming about “Gujarat roits”, ajmer blast , malegaon blast.”

        I don’t know u muslims so it purposly or ur really so dumb….

        U say no hindu comdem it..?? What about whole Congress comdem Modi…Whole MEDIA….

        BARKHA DUTT for eg….

        And even supreme court has given decision on Gujrat blast that how muslims burned train and danced on tracks…

        what level of stupid are u? Try to be reasonable before posting such points…

        do u know the meaning of not comdeming the crime by Muslims…is like Ajeem Chaudhry who says in media that every non muslim is terrorist and muslims are innocent people after they have bombed a bus in ENGLAND…..

        Not condeming the terrorist who have confessed their crimes in the NAME OF ALLAH…

      • @ sanatana.akki

        On a serious note – Muslims lose the power to use their brains. Like when we work out in gym, our muscles warm up. when we think our brain warms up and our cells grow stronger. Now for thinking you need an open frame of mind and an open society.

        For instance, to really think if 5am mosque prayers are required or not – one needs to think. Instead Muslims are told – just do it. Dont ask. That loses the main intent of thinking.

        So to cut answer in short – Muslims rarely think. The ones who really think arent real Muslims (like APJ who is probably a gem that India produced. He is anyways beyond any religion).

      • @ abu ibrahim aka illogical moron

        >>> i also haven`t seen any hindu condeming about “Gujarat roits”, ajmer blast , malegaon blast.
        no body condeming the hindu terrorist sadhavi, swami asimanand….. <<>> what is this bullshit that when you have to pray god leave your home & throw away all your responsibility throw your wife & children & go to jungle for samadhi…. wow <<<

        No we dont throw our wives, children, etc. This stage is achieved after completing all the previous 3 stages – brahmacharya, grahasthashram, vanaprasthashram. The last stage is sanyaas where people tend to look at themselves, meditate and try to find the ultimate truth,

        This is pretty different from what you have – leave education, marry multiple times, have infinite children and dont educate the children.

        I guess I have replied pretty logically. Whether you will understand it or not is unknown…

        BTW look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself – what has Islam really given you…..

        You were born with a heart – you might have lost it…

        You were born with a brain – which went unused

        You were born with a good tongue – you spoilt it….

        You have lost a lot being in Islam dude….

    • @abu ibrahim s

      There is no need to show your frustration. If I said there is no need shouting Allah-Allah for worship because Allah is not deaf or lives miles away what wrong in it. If you do not believe you can do practically by meditation & you may consult with Veda & no need to go Masjid etc. You will feel more energetic & feel yourself near to God. Give up the fake stories which says he lives on Seventh sky etc & It is also compulsory to remember bloody Arabs who invaded to our country many times & done immoral act like looting, raping with mother & sister so that we can learn lesson from past& we need to be alert from them even today many their successor planning the same as Mohamad Gory, Md. Gajnavi, Babur, Aurngajeb others many did in this great country. But I could not understand why have you shown frustration I have just condemn bloody arabs & their culture, languages which have given birth terrorist. What you have to do with them you are favoring them.

  24. @abu ibrahim

    We have a great sanskriti, literature. We do not need arabs who looted, raped, to our country. Whenever I listen arbi word I get irritated. But I did not understand why do you have great respect for Arabs culture, language, people who looted to your country in which you live (India) raped with mothers, sisters and done a lot of immoral act. But you consider these arab like Babur, Gori, Gajani, other many as a role models. We do not need to learn from arabs worship method which spread noise pollution in atmosphere. We have Veda in which for worship yogik method are mentioned. We had the ancestors who used to go in jungle to search of silence where they can meditate properly. But I could not understand what kind of this prayer of Kuran which spread noise in atmosphere. In Veda nowhere mention such nonsense method of worship. If I rise in morning start shouting like Allah Allah. This is not method of worship. God is not deaf or live miles away from you. He is within you & you need to concentrate on God within yourself as Veda mentioned. By shouting you can not concentrate on God. I also worship God but I prefer silence where I can meditate without any disturbance. But Kuran advise spreading Noise. Noise & worship opposite for true God devotee.

  25. @Mohammed

    “Unfortunately, Indian law could not manage to prosecute Savarkar and thus he was acquitted.”

    “A court case was going on and Muslims agreed that if they lose the case, they will hand over the mosque to Hindus; but vested political groups could not wait for the court to announce the verdict as they wanted the mob frenzy to be converted to Hindu vote bank”

    Now few more contradicting statements !

    You want the peace loving Hindus to follow the court orders although Babri structure was not only against their Religious sentiments but a shame for National Esteem of Bharat (Of which muslims are also a part ) .On the other side you yourself declared Veer Savarkar guilty of murder of Gandhi.
    And you said you don,t believe in Indian law,and you want us to believe ??????

    Savarkar was a Great revolutionary like Neta ji,Bhagat Singh etc.He spent 16 golden years of his life in jail. Unlike Gandhi and Nehru who were given class A prisoner status, Savarkar was given Class C status. Conditions in jail were inhuman: back-breaking job of stone breaking, rope making, and milling. Prisoners had to grind the copra in the mill, tied like oxe.He sacrificed his life for a Nation in which you are living.
    Nehru the PM at the time of Murder of Gandhi,used to consider Savarkar as his biggest rival.He had done his best to prove him guilty.But could not succeed as he was innocent.

    Brother ! This is the problem with you all.You don,t want to know truth.You Just want to believe what you,ve been told.And you are doing this from last 1700 years.And the thing which disquieted me most is that Gifted people like you and that Jakir Naik are using their brilliance in proving that stuff which you yourself know is false.If you will use same effort for finding the truth you will surely succeed.

    OM

    .

  26. @ Vajra,

    Quote “3. Why are you so obsessed with Veer Savarkar? What wrong he said?” Unquote

    Reason:

    Savarkar was the mastermind behind Mahatma Gandhi’s assasination. He was arrested and charged with murder, conspiracy to murder and abetment to murder.

    Bagde, one of the two companions of Godse who became approver, confirmed that on 17 January 1948, Godse went to have a last darshan of Savarkar in Bombay before Mahatma Gandhi’s assassination. That time Badge was outside along with Shankar whereas Nathuram and Apte were inside with Savarkar. After coming out, Apte told Badge that Savarkar blessed them “Yashasvi houn ya” (be successful and return).

    Unfortunately, Indian law could not manage to prosecute Savarkar and thus he was acquitted. However, later a commission named “Kapur Commission” did an independent enquiry and with the help of testimonies of two of Savarkar’s close aides – Appa Ramachandra Kasar, his bodyguard, and Gajanan Vishnu Damle, his secretary established conclusively that conspiracy to Mahatma Gandhi’s murder was planned by Savarkar and his group.

    Though Savarkar was acquitted, but the people know what he did.

    • Mohammed

      1. There were four more questions in my comment which you could not touch. Try those.

      2. Before pointing finger at Savarkar, condemn Muhammad Bin Qasim, Ghori, Ghazni, Taimur, Tuglaks, Babur, Akbar, Aurangzeb and all those Muslim rulers who slaughtered millions of Hindus and converted them to Islam. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus. And dont deny the source because this is what you rely on when it comes to Savarkar.

      3. You did selective quoting while discussing Badge’s testimony because the same page from where you copied this story, writes- “However Badge’s testimony was not accepted as THE APPROVER’S EVIDENCE LACKED INDEPENDENT CORROBORATION.

      Finally court released Veer Savarkar saying- “ VINAYAK D. SAVARKAR- He is not guilty of the offences as specified in the charge, and is acquitted thereunder: he is in custody, and be released forthwith unless required otherwise.”

      I will only agree with your last line- “the people know what he did”

      He was one of the greatest freedom fighters born ever in any country who spent around 25 years of his youth in the jails like Andaman (Kala Pani), the tortures he endured for 3 decades is unparallel. He was million times greater thinker, leader, philosopher, patriot and brave than any Gandhis, Nehrus, Abul Kalam Azads, Muhammads (prophet of Muslims) etc and that is why the traitor Jihadis and pseudo sickulars of India are jealous of him.

      • @Vajra,

        Quote “3. You did selective quoting while discussing Badge’s testimony because the same page from where you copied this story, writes- “However Badge’s testimony was not accepted as THE APPROVER’S EVIDENCE LACKED INDEPENDENT CORROBORATION.” Unquote

        And you easily forgot to tell your readers why the corroborative testimonies which were presented to Kapur Commission (Appa Ramachandra Kasar and Gajanan Vishnu Damle) were not presented to the court? Was not there some insider’s hand?

        Quote “He was one of the greatest freedom fighters born ever in any country who spent around 25 years of his youth in the jails———————“Unquote

        I do not deny that he was a freedom fighter. But only till he was arrested and put into jail. Once he was in jail, he somehow forgot all the freedom fighting ideas and started writing about Hindutva and Hindu Rashtra. Had he been a true freedom fighter, he would not have begged for clemency TWICE. And after the release in 1924, he never did anything which could be considered as near to the Freedom Struggle (he was too much afraid of getting arrested again).

        Your claim that he was in jail for 25 years is wrong. He was arrested in 1910 and got freed in 1924. So, how many years? Count yourself.

        Had India got freedom in 1924, he could have been considered as a great freedom fighter. Or during 1924 to 1947, had he done anything which supported Indian struggle to freedom, he would have been considered at least an average freedom fighter.

        The best description for him could be “a person who was freedom fighter in his early youth but spent most of his life propagating hindutva ideology.”

        As far as his bravery is considered, the real fact is that he was coward. Otherwise he would not have begged for clemency, that too twice. The true freedom fighters laid down their life but never kneeled down against British. I think just to mitigate this very fact, you people use the word ‘Veer’ before his name.

        Quote “2. Before pointing finger at Savarkar, condemn Muhammad Bin Qasim, Ghori, Ghazni, Taimur, Tuglaks, Babur, Akbar, Aurangzeb and all those Muslim rulers who slaughtered millions of Hindus and converted them to Islam. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus. And dont deny the source because this is what you rely on when it comes to Savarkar.” nquote
        In my other post I have condemned Muhammad Bin Qasim, Ghori, Ghazni, Taimur, Tuglaks, Babur, Akbar, Aurangzeb etc.”

        Understand the very fact that these, particularly Ghori, Ghazni, Timurs etc. were blood thirsty warlords who came India only to plunder it. They were muslims only for the namesake. They do not represent Islam in any way. In fact they were not following Islam in any way. Their aim was never to spread Islam but they used the name of Islam for their misdeeds.

        Muslims have no respect for them and they do not have any value to muslims in India. You want the testimony? Have you ever seen any muslim in India naming his / her son as Ghazni, Gori or Timur??

        The very source you referenced also writes:

        “Timur wrote many times in his memoirs of his specific disdain for the ‘idolatrous’ Hindus, although he also waged war against Muslim Indians during his campaign.”

        “Although impressed and momentarily stalled by the valour of Ilyaas Awan, Timur was able to continue his relentless approach to Delhi, arriving in 1398 to combat the armies of Sultan Mehmud. The Sultan’s army was easily defeated on December 17, 1398. Timur entered Delhi and the city was sacked, destroyed, and left in ruins.”

        “During the ransacking of Delhi, almost all inhabitants not killed were captured and enslaved.”

        So this fuc*ing Timur actually came to conquer Sultan Mahmud of Delhi, He came to plunder gold, diamonds and precious stones from the Sultan’s Maal Khana. He killed anybody who came against his target, hindu or muslim.

        Delhi being the power of seat of Sultan, the muslim population was much higher than hindu population. The no. of muslims in the Sultan’s Army was much higher than hindus. Timur’s forces killed anybody they saw in Delhi irrespective of religion. So whom Timur was killing actually, muslims. And hindus got killed as is said “Genhu ke saath ghun bhi pis jaate hain”

        After knowing this, still you want to argue that these guys were spreading Islam? If that was the case, Sultan Mahmud could have easily shook hand of Timur and both could have started killing hindus? Why this did not happen. This simply shows that your interpretation is totally bogus and is aimed at spreading lies among unsuspecting hindus so that they become your vote bank.

        As far as nos. of people killed is considered, in many cases, it is highly exaggerated as the writer was either the perpetrator himself and boasted too much or some other idiot was writing eulogies to get good reward.

        Moghal period was very different as the rulers accepted India as their motherland and did a lot of things to promote peace and harmony. How easily you forget Sher Shah Suri who made the GT road with so many Sarais (inns) at regular intervals and improved law and order so much that traders could travel thousands of miles without any fear. What about Muhammad Khilji who standardized the measuring and weighing system to that there is no dishonesty in the trading and thus consumer’s rights were protected. Was that made only for Muslims?? And then you easily forget Raja Todarmal, Raja Birbal, Raja Mansingh being in the navaratna of Akbar, Jodhabai, the Queen of Akbar.

        Having said that, I have no respect for any Moghal as well because they were not the true followers of Islam. Most of them were drunkard and womanizer. Do you think this is what Islam teaches?? They did everything opposite to what was taught by Islam and see the result. Where are their great-great grand children now?? Most likely pulling rickshaw somewhere in Chandni Chowk or at Charbagh Railway Station (Lucknow).

        Remember, this is how Allah treats people for their bad deeds. So if you are spreading hatred today, may be after a few decades that very hatred devours you and your followers.

        Quote “1. There were four more questions in my comment which you could not touch. Try those.” Unquote

        Have patience!

      • Mohammed

        1. Neither any Kapoor nor you could prove that Veer Savarkar was guilty in the case.

        2. When Quran, Hadith, Muhammad, and 1.4 billion Muslims can think of making the whole world Dar ul Islam, why cant any Hindu think of having India as Hindu Rashtra? Tell me where Savarkar advocated killing and rape of Muslims or Non Hindus to build Hindu Rashtra unlike Muhammad who killed as well as raped and allowed these to make the world Dar Ul Islam?

        3. Savarkar was arrested in 1910 and was unconditionally releaed on 10th May 1937 from internment at Ratnagiri. Between 1921 to 1937, he was not allowed to go outside Ratnagiri. So it makes total of 27 years during which he was imprisoned in Andman and Ratnagiri.

        4. BTW when Savarkar was in prison for the independence of India, Indian Muslims were worried more about the Khilafat which had nothing to do with their country 🙁 So Muslims should hang their heads in shame because they live in independent India because of people like Savarkar whom they label as fanatic.

        5. Before asking about clemency of Savarkar, tell me how many freedom fighters Muslims have produced? Great Ashfaq Ullah Khan has written in his letter to his mother that he feels so proud to be the FIRST Muslim to give his life for his motherland! Now try to imagine how brave and loyal you and the Muslims have been to India!

        6. Ram Prasad Bismil and Ashfaq Ullah Khan also requested for clemency. But question comes did they get it? Did Savarkar get it? So its clear that they wanted to cause as much damage to the enemies as they could, and for this they had to live longer 🙂 But here I will remind readers that your brave and greatest man ever born on earth Muhammad had to run away from his homeland Mecca. (Hazrat ko bhi karni padi Macca se HIZRAT 🙂 ) He showed back to the enemies and begged for the safe escape from Meccans. Now compare Savarkar with Arabian coward prophet 😉 And let me remind you no Muslim other than Ashfaq begged for clemency because no Muslim other than him was sentenced to death for freedom struggle 🙁

        7. When Arab, Turk, Mughals etc who invaded India were bloodthirsty and looters, why not Muslims of today condemn them? Why dont Mullahs issue Fatwa that all of them were non Muslims and they did wrong in converting Hindus to Muslims forcefully? Why should not Muslims give up Islam which was spread by such butchers?

        8. Muslims of Pakistan have named their missiles as Ghazni, Ghauri etc. Indian Muslims fought their Hindu brothers for gay butcher Babur’ Masjid, why? Only because they hail all of these butchers as Ghazis. Do not play Taqiyya my friend 🙂

        9. Read more about great Akbar here http://agniveer.com/3175/akbar-great/

        10. If Mughals were not true Muslims, Taimur, Ghori, Ghazni etc were not Muslims, why the myth of 1000 years of Muslim rule? And when it is proven that all of them were butchers and converted Hindus to Islam forcefully, why should not Muslims give up the symbol of the barbarism and embrace Dharma of their ancestors?

        11. Why Muslims want Masjid of Babur back, call Akbar- the great, Aurangzeb- Alamgir and why hail every butcher as Ghazi if they fail to be called as even Muslims?

        Why dont you come back to Vedic Dharma of your ancestors?

      • @mohammed

        AH savarkar, the pet hate of all muslims in India.
        Savarkar until he was sent for kala pani, was a secularist. his first book on 1857 war of independence was a secular treatise.
        When he went to andaman, he forgot freedom movement and became hindutva proponent.
        ABSOLUTELY. Read his book, “mazi janmathep” My life sentence. he saw the mainly muslim prisoners, the most dangerous criminals, mostly muslim, actively seeking to convert pliable hindus to islam. He tried saving one hindu boy from andhra who was abut to be converted. That is when he developed hatred for islam and became a hindu fanatic.

        Incidentally, RSS or hindu mahasabha was the answer RETALIATION to the muslim league. Check the foundation dates, they were founded AFTER the founadation of league.

        If muslims talking of khilafat is okay, then what is wrong about hindus talking of hindu rashtra or hindu samrajya?
        savarkar and jinnah are two sides of same coin. So if savarkar is wrong so is jinnah, if jinnah is right then so is savarkar, you cannot have doubnle standards
        If kashmiri muslims fight for islam and consider themselves freedom fighters, then how different is savarkar from them?

  27. @Hamza:

    Counter question: If vajra, rebels against his mom, starts slandering his mom in public who actually is a very nice lady with high morals, would vajra be punishable or not?

    If he is not punished, then what is the state of the law in the country?

    (First off, I didnt exactly follow the trail of comments about how we ended up brining in Vajra’s mother into all this.)

    In any case, why do you people insist on justifying death penalty for apostasy as if it were a law and order issue? Cannot you understand that betraying the country/sharing state secrets, etc. are completely different in kind from losing faith in Allah and his messenger? THE TWO ARE NOT EQUIVALENT!

    Now, if I have a dispute with my mom, IT IS BETWEEN ME AND MY MOM. The state or Shariah court has no role to play whatsoever unless one of us causes any physical harm on the other! Do you understand the idea of separation of church and state?

    • @ Kal Bhairav: In Islamic jusrisprudence, even bedrooms are not beyond the reach of shariah. It is a package deal. Fiqh, Islamic jusrisprudence, gives finality to Shariah, which in turn is a combination of contents drawn from the quran and sunah.

      Apostasy, which falls under the “criminal” section of fiqh has 2 parts to it. One is the private apostasy, where an individual, a sane adult Muslim performed daily prayers, professed them to be obligatory, but personally believed them to not be obligatory, then this would constitute private apostasy. Or for example, if a person professed the shahada with knowledge of its meaning, but in their home secretly worshiped idols or denies the existence of Allah, then this would constitute private apostasy.

      Public appstasy is when the above adult talks about these openly in public. In Islam this kind of a public apostasy warrants death.

      This is where Muslims will try to spin words while responding. I can boldly claim that Vedic God is false and walk away. A Xtian can go to his Church, tell the Father that he is leaving the Church and walk away. But if a Muslim does this openly in a Mosque, only his corpse will go reach his home.

      In the Quran 4 of the Sunni schools of Fiqh point to 9:11 (ironical number) as a sanction of death penalty to the apostate. But where the death penalty is invoked in clear terms are in the Hadiths.

      Moder Muslims will point to some incidents in Muhammad’s life where he let apostates walk away. But if a man is in a Muslim country or even in India, and if he openly denies Allah, rest assured, he would uttered the last words of his life. Period.

      P.S: I received these inputs from a close friend that is a private apostate. The irony is that he holds a degree is Islamic Fiqh.

    • @ Hamza

      I have one very genuine question. Since religion involves people, there are bound to be errors, crimes etc. While it is good to have certain norms and regulations to have peace in the society, actual judgement, punishment needs to be given to the individuals by the court of law and order. Having said this court of law and order is always governed by a countries policy. For example a certain behavior may be punishable in a certain country while it may not attract a big time punishment in some other country. So laws are based on the countries policy to restore peace and order.

      How the hell can a religion have strict rules for behavior in a society. For example if 5am mosque prayers affect a community – why the hell shouldnt the law stop such stupid prayers. Why cant the prayers be within a small room with no noise?

      • @hardcorehindu : you know bro: you spoke my heart out.. even thought there are Laws Against noise pollution in i.e from 10 PM to 6 AM any sound should not be made more than 40 dB, but the local mosque near my place takes it to 70dB (with all new loudspeakers) and that agony continues for 5-6 minutes, every single day of the year.Now i am planning to shift my place because of this per historic, pre clock era, desert and ignorance ridden habit/disease of a dumb cult.Don’t know if the god is deaf or what.. why the heck do they need loudspeakers for prayer,as a matter of fact for any prayer,what is the point is shouting.!!!! a prayer.

        link

        http://dpcc.delhigovt.nic.in/act_noise.htm

      • @ आर्यव्रतस्थ

        dear ,it called “aazan” this is the call given for we human being to remind us about our creator god & call the people towards prayers

        what you want to say about the bakvaas bhajanS , the rigging of ghanta & Aarti…….specially the kakad aatrti……. i think your god is music lover or what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!……

        dear there is no place on face of earth where u will not hear the voice of aazan except one place that `s the hell so shift your home to hell where u will not listen the aazan

      • “ear there is no place on face of earth where u will not hear the voice of aazan except one place that `s the hell so shift your home to hell where u will not listen the aazan”

        For us where ever we hear sound of so called azan is hell….so y dont u shift ur azzan out of hel already….

        Go and do azaan in pakistan, and other islamic country waise bhi India is full of kafirs…so y u people bother to live in between kafirs…… go and live in ur so called heaven pakistan or Bangladesh,….

        Try to talk some logic next time abu a monkey from Alladin series…

      • @ sanatana.akki

        i saw how logical you are… if you know about vedas then speak only don`t speak rubbish things here ; this site is not for rubbish things if you want argue then argue properly….. don`t show how chip you are…… don`t waste others time just get lost from this site…..you chip sanatan

      • “called “aazan” this is the call given for we human being to remind us about our creator god & call the people towards prayers”

        We all can see how logical this is.. y u people have to be reminded everyday 5 times are u people all GAJNI…

        “this site is not for rubbish things if you want argue then argue properly”

        plz dont come on this site again…Hope u understand 🙂

      • @ abu ibrahim

        a) Well if my house was ~ 100 metres away from a temple where they say kakad arti or even ring the bell i wouldnt hear it in my house. The bloody mosque loud speakers make u hear the noise even a km away

        b) Kakad arti is never sung on speakers. It is sung by devotees there. People who dont choose to participate in this aarti can sleep at home…PEACEFULLY. The mosque goes are so pervert that they tend to disturb everyone in their sleep.

        c) The synchronous singing of any prayer of any religion is bound to be serene and soothing to ears. When a mullah sings the damn prayer – cant make out if he is crying, singing, praying or farting…. Could there be good singers who can sing? Ofcourse without loud speakers.

        d) How many temples in India sing kakad arti? how many mosques yell in the morning?

        Dude…i guess these are very logical questions. Seems like you are very fond of logic. So get ur act together and argue logically ofcourse.. By the way how come being a Muslim you are fancy of logic? didnt see logic in Islam atleast. Are you converted by any means?

        And yes please dont address me as dear or brother.

      • @ abu ibrahim

        BTW dude…let me make it clear. I am asking why this crap is that way and not what it is. i dont care what it is called and why we need it. I am sure the intent of it may be good, however intent is never the only important thing.

        I have a very good intent of restoring peace in this country … my religion however doesnt allow me to go and kill innocent ones (unlike Islam where kaafir needs to be killed).

      • @abu ibrhim : i guess you did not read my comment fully, i have mentioned “any prayer” does not need loudspeakers.Besides, i am moving… to a place where i hear in the morning the chirps of the birds and the soothing winds, that must be your perception of Hell, but to me or any sane person this kind or environment makes one really appreciate the creator for the beauty of the creation and thus remember him in love and not Fear.
        and i dont know what kakad aarti is,as far as i know ghantas and bhajans in most temples are not sung on loudspeakers.
        and i am not sure whether god loves songs or music or whatever , but its the devotees expression for the prayer for “his own self”
        can you see the difference in the two concepts.
        in azaan’s case ( i know what its called, boy, i was born in Kashmir) people are reminded of god(and his only messenger LOL)by someone else…it nothing more than than a ritual and has no spirituality linked to it. as a matter of fact Islam in its essence ( quran and hadidith) is devoid of spirituality(if you know what spirituality means, now that you are sunni muslim)

      • @ आर्यव्रतस्थ

        as far as i know ghantas and bhajans in most temples are not sung on loudspeakers.

        i think you didn`t came out of kasmir…. then came out & have you home near temple

        then lets see how much People who dont choose to participate in this aarti can sleep at home…PEACEFULLY.

        what you want to say about the “saftha” “parayan” jagran i hope you know this things & whats going on there????

      • @abu ibrahim : I said that i was born there the rest is your assumption.been out for over 2 decds now.
        The mosque i talked about, there is a temple too besides it , arti happens there too but not at times which cause discomfort to public and not on loudspeakers.
        now if you ask me explanation for things that i dont believe in and think are wrong too.. it would not make the phenomenon of azaan right…now would it.
        So defent ( if you can) the acquisation on logical grounds and not comparative grounds and that does not make sense.

  28. Namaste @Human

    Yeh site mature audiences ke liye hai jisme har dharm ko gehrai se tatola jaata hai.
    agar tumhe ye site pasand nahi to yahaan mat aao.

    aur tum to Human hoke Humanism ka pehla haq hi bhool gaye ..wo hai freedom of expression (including the freedom to speak a harsh truth)

    Jab sach ki jaanch ki jayegi to bahut kuch kadwa lagega..iska arth ye nahi ki satya ki jaanch hi chhod di jaye.

    what kind of human are you ..who puts religion above freedom of expression?

    aur ek baat, agar tum maante ho ki doosre ke dharm ke baare mein buyra kehna galat hai to sabse Islam aur Chroistianity ke khilaaf aawaz uthane ki himmat karo jo saaf saaf kehte hain ki unke dharm ke alaalwa saare dharm jhhoote hain aur unhe mitaa dena chhahiye

    mein bhi dekhoon ki tum human ho ya coward

    • @Human

      Bhai ye to bahut hi badhiya site hai. jabse se maine ye site dekhi se tab se maine bahut se superstions chhod diye. Ye site ligic or Vigyan ke aadhar par shabhi article pesh karati hai. Phir bhi bhai agar tumane koi aesa point dekha ho articles me jo illogical or unscientific hai to mujhe bhi batana.

    • @ Human

      Namaskar Mr.Human. If you are really a person in favor of human beings, I would encourage you to give a deep thought to the history and the present. Religion cannot be separated from any human being. It is like his body which he cant separate from himself. In case of super humans this may be possible.

      This website deals with debates between Hinduism and other religions (preliminary Islam). All other religions co-exist peacefully with Hindusim, except for Islam. So if humanity is so important to you, wouldnt you really want to ban the problematic religion than Hinduism?

      Looks like this site must ban sick people like you first.

  29. @mohammed
    You low life scumbag brain dead person who is parroting the oft repeated claims of muslims who are shameless enough to say, that my idolatory is right and yours is wrong. Like kids say, my daddy is stronger than your daddy.

    After all the claims made, and your pathetic counter claims, let me ask you one question moron.

    I worship stone idols, you got a problem? You wanna fight me becuase of it, or wanna destroy them, believe me I am ready for a fight and wanna destroy all your mosques dargah etc. Just a piece of stone.

    You fight a jihad, we fight a dharmayuddha. You kill us, we kill you in return. My community got wiped out from pakistan, bangladesh and kashmi9r, I return the favour to muslim minority in rest of India. You try to convert me, and get extremely upset when I ask any muslim to revert to the religion of his ancestors. What are you hypocrites? Do baap ki aulaad?

    You know what your muslim problem is? You dont have a live and let live ideology. eg:- ” I will not worship idols but let you worship your idols. ” You bloody muslims dont worship idols and actually want to stop me worshipping them when hinduism is older than islam. That is where the problem comes.
    In france you want to have the freedom to wear burkhas, but will not allow french women to go without burkhas in saudi arabia or iran or afghanistan. BLOODY HYPOCRITES. Munafiq. fuel for hellfire.

    Answer me if you have LOGIC.

    • @Identity crisis,

      Well, I can answer all your questions very “LOGICALLY”, but unfortunately all your swearing and abuses does not excite me. It simply proves your frustration.

      Quote “My community got wiped out from pakistan, bangladesh and kashmi9r, I return the favour to muslim minority in rest of India.”

      You declared your “REAL” mission. You proved you terrorist mindset.

      • On two different occasions, you have made contradictory statements: “You declared your “REAL” mission. You proved you terrorist mindset.” Also, “There is nothing called terrorists’ mindset. It is an invention by some vested interests to fulfill their ulterior motives.” Caught with your foot in your mouth.

      • @ Mohammed

        Well there is a famous saying you know – Attack is the best defence. We Hindus know that your religion alwayx encourages you to slaughter people in the name of Islam. We had enough of it. Its been ~ 600 years since Hindustan (land of Hindus) has had this perverted, lootist, rapist community of Muslims. And Godhra was an example where you folks created trouble and then got ur butt kicked badly. So stay away from us. Hindus have undergone a 180 degree shift now. We will raise swords to encounter swords…..Take my word.

      • Quote “We Hindus know that your religion alwayx encourages you to slaughter people in the name of Islam.” Unquote

        Keep on uttering nonsense. No Hindu with his head in right place, forget about Muslims will believe what “you know”. You are parroting what you have been taught by RSS. I think RSS should be renamed to – Rashtriya SarvaSatyanas Sangh.

        Unfortunately, even your dreamland ‘Hindustan’ was named by Arabs. First think of some other name and then dream of a “Hindu Rashtra”.

      • @Mohammed
        My land was named by arabs. hindustan, means land of hindus. So, we make it a hindu rashtra, what is YOUR problem? First go and make pakistan, bangladesh and kashmir secular, then maybe we will think of keeping india secular.
        You muslims are hypocrites. Munafiq.
        When in majority, islamic country, wipe out all hindus, when in minority, secular. Do you worship ONE allah or two allahs? ;))

      • @ Mohammed

        Terrorist mindset? Really? Was Bhagat Singh a terrorist? Was Veer Savarkar a terrorist? Dude in Islam it looks like everyone who is against Islam is a terrorist. In Hinduism we have freedom to apply our brains and choose our path. We can be a theist or an atheist. We can believe in idol worship or not believe. We have the right to choose what we feel is a super power.

        Islam has rules that leave Muslims no margins to apply their brains, and that is why I see all Muslims only quoting from some or the other text. No logic. And you can answer LOGICALLY. If you can answer logically (refer to the dictionary term logic – dont give me the crappy Islam logic) answer these questions: –

        a) If a certain man/woman feels like leaving Islam, doesnt he have a right to do so? Why is he outlawed and banned and killed?
        b) Why are the bloody bhopus of mosques on at 5am, even if the locality has non-Muslim majority?

        Time to get ur logic working dude….

      • @Mohammed
        Thankyou for realising my “terrorist mindset”. You consider it an insult, I take it as a compliment.

        Forget my abuses. Just answer my logic. What happened to MY community I do to YOUR community. What happened to my temples, I do to your mosques. LOGIC? If kashmir becomes islamic country, why shouldnt India become hindu rashtra? Why should you muslims have a problems accepting hindu rashtra and paying jiziya with absolute “submission”?

        Forget RSS , I have a grudge against RSS that they are not as radical as I would like them to be. My mindest is much worse than RSS. If you want a secular India, plzzzz go and first make kashmir secular, then attack pakistan, re-attach it back to India as a secular country, then maybe we hindus will think of becoming secular.

      • @ identity crisis

        People of your mindset, starting with Savarkar have been trying their best to misguide hindus into believing your cock and bull story about Indian History. But you guys could not succeed in your ill intentions because an average hindu has got more brain than fanatics like you and can easily see that all your claims are bogus. You are nothing but a power hungary hate monger who wants to convert average peace loving hindus into blind fanatics. You want them to start killing muslims and in return get killed and on their dead bodies you wish to capture power at Delhi.

        Keep on yelling “sky is falling”, nothing will happen, your hindu brothers and sisters have realized your real designs.

      • Mohammed

        1. Following is the quote from the description of Quran [3:110] from Tafsir e Ibn Kathir, the most recognized Tafsir-

        “You, Muslims, are the best nation of people for the people, YOU BRING THEM TIED IN CHAINS ON THEIR NECKS (CAPTURE THEM IN WAR) and they later embrace Islam.”

        If you possess brain of a human and not of a fanatic, you could well see your ancestors being dragged as captives of war who were forced to convert to Islam as per this description of Kathir.

        2. BTW what is the Indian history taught in Madarsas? It would probably teach the innocent children how to praise the rapist killers of their ancestors and become Jihadi brain dead like Mohammed.

        3. Why are you so obsessed with Veer Savarkar? What wrong he said?

        4. Muhammad was the biggest hate monger ever born on earth. Want proofs? Read Hadith and Quran. He calls the polytheists and unbelievers “worst of creatures”. Now imagine I call him and his followers “worst of creatures”, how do you feel?

        Tell me, why you should not be bashed publicly for supporting death penalty for apostasy and prohibition of Non Muslim faith in Islamic countries?

      • @Mohammed

        HAHAHAHA . You muzzies, caught you with your pants down. You muzzies have an attitude problem. Admit nothihg, deny everything, make counter allegations.
        When I gave yu my logic, and showed my SHAMELESS fanaticism, you dont admit mistakes, no talk of reconciliation, but most average hindus are not like me, they got more brains, and wont believe my claims etc blah blah blah.
        Just answer my logical question, dont bother about average hindu.
        Quote,”You are nothing but a power hungary hate monger who wants to convert average peace loving hindus into blind fanatics” Unquote

        THANKYOU SIR !!! My mission in life is to convert the average hindu into a fanatic like me. If all hindus become fanatics like me….then allah wont be able to help you.

        Anyway it is INTERNAL matter of hindu community, what I convert them to, not your probklem.

  30. @ Vajra

    Reference: His reply to Mohammed, dated 14 April 2011

    Quote “For any idolater, his/her idol has more value to him than his/her own life. Now? Breaking idols will be worse than killing idolaters.” Unquote

    For any drug addict, his daily dose of supply has more value than his own life or others’ life. But if you are a normal person, in all your senses, will you try to stop him from taking drugs or you will turn your eyes the other way round and leave him dying????

    Quote “Do you remember when Babri Masjid was demolished, how many people died? Why? Why not Muslims bear this as just the fall of some stones for which noone should be killed?” Unquote

    A court case was going on and Muslims agreed that if they lose the case, they will hand over the mosque to Hindus; but vested political groups could not wait for the court to announce the verdict as they wanted the mob frenzy to be converted to Hindu vote bank. The Muslim protest was directed towards these political parties who didn’t fulfill their responsibility of upholding the law of the land; rather they kneeled down to Hindu extremists. (They have seen the political fallout of this.)

    I agree 100% that no one should have been killed but when PAC (UP’s Provincial Armed Constabulary) opened fire on unarmed protesting Muslim youths, things got worse; however if you see the statistics, no. of Muslim killed are much higher than Hindus. So, effectively who killed whom for Babri Masjid Vs Ram Janma Bhumi?

    Quote “After an American burned Quran, many Muslims died in Afganistan and several other places in protests. Tell them that Quran is not idol for which they want to die. Just do it.” Unquote

    A very small point to ponder. Why only Afghanis protested against Quran burning by American Pastor? Are Muslims living in other countries are less Muslims? You know the answer- the Afghanis were venting out their frustration of US and NATO forces who are occupying their country and making their life hell. Quran burning was just an igniting point.

    Quote “Vedas nowhere ask me to slit throats of idolaters unlike Quran. Vedas dont prescribe idol
    worship and tell the disadvantages of it, but nowhere they set death penalty or breaking of idols. Why do you think that this terrorist mindset of destroying everything that is not in your book should be followed by us?” Unquote

    Yes, I agree that Vedas are not asking to slit throats of idolaters but your interpretation that Quran is asking for such a punishment is false. Please read Quran and check yourself.

    All the punishment, Quran is talking about is after death, and after the day of the judgment. If one does good deeds in one’s earthly life, he will go to Jannat but if one does bad deeds in one’s earthly life, he will go to hell.

    There is nothing called terrorists’ mindset. It is an invention by some vested interests to fulfill their ulterior motives.

    Quote “Vedas talk of death penalty for invaders, transgressors, rapists and killers. So I am sure if Hindus would have followed Vedas correctly, butchers of Arab and Turk could have never invaded our country and enslaved half the population and land. An idol worshipper can harm himself at the most but transgressors like Ghauri, Ghazni, Babur, Taimur etc butchered thousands of innocents. They deserved the death prescribed in Vedas. You should condemn those first before idolaters.” Unquote

    This one I really like. Islam also asks for death penalty to rapist and killers. We have a lot in common. Why don’t you leave your political compulsions aside and focus on the similarities in Vedic and Islamic teachings. We can make together a much stronger India and I am sure we can rename it to ‘Bharat’ as well.

    Quote “Who will decide that who is right and who is wrong? I say I am right, you say you are right. Now? I kill you or you kill me? Simple Islamic logic ” Unquote

    If you have to choose between two things and you are intelligent enough, then you can decide yourself. In case of doubt, you may consult others. However you cannot live undecided all your life.

    Let me try deciding for you.

    First, you say that your philosophy of religion is based on Vedas. Second, you say that Veda’s are God’s words (and hence must be true) and does not permit any type of idol worship. Third, you say that you believe in Vedas.

    What is the conclusion? You believe that any type of idol worship is wrong.

    I never talked of killing etc. and please do not propagate this idea of killing too much. Mahatma Gandhi managed to get India free from British rule. Did he kill anybody?

    Quote” What are you doing for Muslims who worship Kaba, graves etc by rituals like bowing, kissing, circumambulating? Hope you yourself stop worshipping the Kaba idol and then will convince fellow Muslims ” Unquote

    No Muslim worships Kaba. It’s your interpretation to justify idol worship in Hinduism. Kaba has got its value to the fact that it was originally built by Prophet Ibrahim and was rebuilt by Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).

    Though Muslims visiting dargahs etc. are not doing grave worship essentially, yet they are doing something which lies on the borderline of idolatry. There is no place for such grave worship, dargahs, urs (annual functions at Dargah) etc. in Islam.

    Lakhs and Lakhs of Muslims are trying their best to convince their fellow Muslims to stop this Dargah Business and the success rate is quite good.

    Quote “And until you reject Kaba worship, you should refrain yourself from condemning other idolaters.” Quote

    No Muslim does Kaba worship (please note that I have visited Kaba around ten times. I am not writing this based on – well, read so and so somewhere.)

    Quote “BTW what are you doing for Muslims who are killing/being killed at the hands of Muslims from different sects in places like Pakistan? Do you think idolatry is bigger problem than blowing mosques of the sect which is not yours? ” Unquote

    This terrorism is a political problem, not a religious problem. It’s in the same line as Naxalites in India. Naxalites are also blowing buses full with CRPF jawans.

    Muslims denounce any form of terrorism whether by Muslims or by Hindus. We strongly believe that terrorists are mercenaries and if you don’t believe me, go and check with Ajmal Kasab. Was he praying five times a day, working hard and honestly to earn his livelihood or running from one place to other place to make quick bucks and thus got into the hands of these power brokers?

    These so called terrorists (Muslim, Hindu, Srilankan’s suicide bombers Tamils included) are poor people who are used as pawns in the hands of much bigger powers that are neither religious nor humane. These powers are running for the lust of absolute power.

    Quote “My main cause is to destroy the ideology which says only Muhammad is final rasul and who does not believe in him will go to hell. This is million times greater cause for me than idol worship.” Unquote

    Please refer my first reply (dated 13th April 2011) to your post. I very rightly pointed out what is the root cause of all your problems. You just confirmed that.

    Please read it back there, I have provided two simple solutions.

    Quote “So condemning idol worship is right and condemning Kaba worship wrong? What a hypocrite you are” Unquote

    There is nothing called Kaba worship. Your insistence on using the term ‘Kaba Worship’ is nonsense and branding me as hypocrite is like, if you start telling others that the Earth is not revolving around the Sun but the Moon and I do not agree to that then you will label me as ‘hypocrite’.

    • I am sure that no government would kill a drug addict for not mending his ways. He may be sent to a rehab, but not declared wajibul qatl.

      There is no question of handing over something that did not belong to you in the first place. Remember the Shah Bano case, if the Supreme Court ruling could be overturned to appease a section of the people, muslims, I am sure even if the Supreme Court verdict goes against the hindu community’s wishes, then a politico-religious movement will have to launched to ensure that the hindus get back the land, taking a leaf out of the Shah Bano book.

      Please do provide the statistics for the muslim versus hindu deaths coz I believe you are lying here.

      Also, some food for thought for you. Why when the Muhammad cartoons were published, muslims in India and also all over the globe had to create such a ruckus. BTW, the muslim is in turmoil now, and that is why we do not see a repeat of what happened after the cartoon episode.

      Again, going to jannat and jahannum for eternity, I am still unable to digest such nonsense. Supposing, I commit only petty crimes all my life and someone commits graves crimes all his life, we will both be sharing each other’s companionship in jahannum for eternity. Even, worldly justice systems are better than your allah’s judicial dispensation.

      I still doubt the fact that grave worship is being effectively countered against properly by your brethren (except by those who are blowing up mazaars in Pakistan). Your claim seems as fabricated as the earlier one that more muslims died in police firing in the Ayodhya incident. Please provide details for elucidation.

    • Namaste Mohammed

      ————For any drug addict, his daily dose of supply has more value than his own life————

      1. For me drug addicts are those who bow down to the biggest idol of the world- Kaba 5 times a day, who kiss the Kaba idol, circumambulate it, who worship graves. And most importantly these addicts think normal human beings as addicts and try to convert them to their own community 🙁 How to deal with them?

      2. Tell me one reason why bowing down of Muslims to Kaba is different than that of a Hindu bowing to his idol.

      3. Prove to me here that what Hindus do is idol worship and what Muslims do (with Kaba) is not.

      ———–but when PAC (UP’s Provincial Armed Constabulary) opened fire on unarmed protesting Muslim youths, things got worse;———-

      Why were those Muslims protesting in first place? Babri Masjid was just stones like any other stone of idols which Ghazis used to break. And please be in the context of the discussion which is my below statement –

      “For any idolater, his/her idol has more value to him than his/her own life. Now? Breaking idols will be worse than killing idolaters.”

      So when it is proven that Muslims also got hurt so much that many of them gave their lives, how it is different from idol worshippers?

      ————no. of Muslim killed are much higher than Hindus. So, effectively who killed whom for Babri Masjid Vs Ram Janma Bhumi?————

      Who killed them? Why Muslims claim right over Janmabhumi? Babur was invader whose mosque was built there after desecration of Ram Mandir. So Muslims should have already given the land to Hindus.

      ————You know the answer- the Afghanis were venting out their frustration of US and NATO forces who are occupying their country and making their life hell. Quran burning was just an igniting point.————-

      No. I have seen the vehicles burning in my city when a Denmark cartoonist sketched Muhammad. No occupation only foolishness.

      ————Your interpretation that Quran is asking for such a punishment is false. Please read Quran and check yourself.————

      What is your take on Ayat e Saif [9:5]? What about [9:29] which orders Muslims to fight everyone who does not believe in Allah, Muhammad, judgment day etc until they convert to Islam or pay Jizya tax humbly (you chose not to respond to this earlier)?

      ———–If one does good deeds in one’s earthly life, he will go to Jannat but if one does bad deeds in one’s earthly life, he will go to hell.————

      I do good deeds but dont believe in Muhammad. What will happen to me?

      ————-Islam also asks for death penalty to rapist and killers.————

      Why Muhammad raped Rehana of Bani Qureza? Why he gave permission to his soldiers to rape women?

      —————We have a lot in common. Why don’t you leave your political compulsions aside and focus on the similarities in Vedic and Islamic teachings.————

      Haha! But you believe in agent of Allah- Muhamamd without believing in whom I will not get Jannah. But Vedic Eeshvar is not associated with by any partners/agents. Moreover I pray without bowing to any idol unlike Muslims who bow to Kaba idol. I cant kiss, circumambulate a stone. My belief in Eeshvar remains firm without these meaningless rituals of idol worship. So if you want to follow common and focus on similarities, it is you who will have to leave Muhammad, bowing to Kaba etc. Tell me when you are ready to leave Muhammad and Kaba aside.

      ———We can make together a much stronger India and I am sure we can rename it to ‘Bharat’ as well.——-

      Why? Dont you dream of Islamic rule in India?

      ————What is the conclusion? You believe that any type of idol worship is wrong.————

      Yes, idol worship contains meaningless rituals like bowing, kissing, circumambulating etc. Hindus are found guilty of just one of these but Muslims are guilty for all three 🙁 And above all they try to show the world as if they are different from idol worshippers 🙂

      ————and please do not propagate this idea of killing too much.———–

      Ghazis like Babur, Taimur, Osama, Qasab, Taliban etc need(ed) this more than me I guess!

      ———–No Muslim worships Kaba.———–

      Give logic, otherwise have this- all muslims worship Kaba but Hindus dont worship idols.

      ————It’s your interpretation to justify idol worship in Hinduism.———-

      I can never justify idol worship be it of Hindus or Muslims. Rather its your trick to justify Kaba worship by Muslims.

      ———-Kaba has got its value to the fact that it was originally built by Prophet Ibrahim and was rebuilt by Prophet Mohammad (PBUH).———-

      Idols of Hindus get the values from the books like Purana which were written by their Rishis as per their belief.

      ————There is no place for such grave worship, dargahs, urs (annual functions at Dargah) etc. in Islam.———–

      Similarly there is no place for idol worship in Vedas.

      ————-No Muslim does Kaba worship ———–

      What do you mean by worship? Is that some standard definition? Give logic, dont repeat the same thing. This might help you http://satyagni.com/1685/kaba-or-idol-worship/

      ————This terrorism is a political problem, not a religious problem. It’s in the same line as Naxalites in India. Naxalites are also blowing buses full with CRPF jawans.———–

      Hmm.. Seen any Naxelite holding Vedas in hand and blowing himself off? But Osama, Qasab, Babur, Taimur, Gharui, Ghazni, Taliban etc hold Quran in their hands and recite verses of Jihad from it before waging war against Kafirs. This is the difference.

      ———–Muslims denounce any form of terrorism whether by Muslims or by Hindus.————

      You yourself are a self confessed terrorist for holding the view that apostate propagating his new religion should be killed. So dont lecture on who thought what and who prayed 5 times

      There is nothing like Hindu terrorist unlike Islamic terrorist who has Quran to back his cowardly acts.

      ———–Please refer my first reply (dated 13th April 2011) to your post. I very rightly pointed out what is the root cause of all your problems. You just confirmed that.———-

      Please give that here. I couldn’t find.

      ————There is nothing called Kaba worship.————

      There is. Refer to the link given above.

      ———- I do not agree to that then you will label me as ‘hypocrite’.———–

      I gave logic, try to give the same. Your disagreement carries no weightage for me. And dont bother much about “hypocrite”, you have been given much bigger title “terrorist” here 🙂

      • Vajra, you rock man. Tamaso Maa Jyotirgamaya. Somewhere deep down, every Muslim that comes to this site,argues for weeks together and leaves a bit confused, feels a strange feeling creeping into him, on Islam. In a way, Agniveer initiative has started doing the job of leading those is darkness to light.While their wgos and ages of conditioning will prevent them from accepting the truth, in the Indian context, the deconditioning of a cross section of Indian Muslims using the interner, has been effective through the Agniveer initiative.

        Like I mentioned elsewhere, one of my friends is a personal apostate (he, by the way, holds a degree in fiqh) and he crossed swords with Ali Sina in ’02/03 on that website. But today he is reconciled that Islam is a fake religion promoted by a fake prophet and it is a complete system of governance that enslaves a person in every possible way. He was very appreicative of agniveer’s initiative.

      • @Rushmore:

        Like I mentioned elsewhere, one of my friends is a personal apostate (he, by the way, holds a degree in fiqh) and he crossed swords with Ali Sina in ’02/03 on that website. But today he is reconciled that Islam is a fake religion promoted by a fake prophet and it is a complete system of governance that enslaves a person in every possible way. He was very appreicative of agniveer’s initiative.

        A-freaking-men. That is the exact type of response we should expect for all our (Agniveer’s and other visitors’/posters’) efforts. Looks like we are doing something right.

  31. Agniveer,

    Can you focus on Hinduism and not talk about other faiths
    Two sides here, people will get upset if you talk about other faiths, just focus on Hinduism

    • Namaste ravi

      The only reason for which Agniveer talks about other religions is same as for which you have suggested Agniveer not to do it!

      • what is agniveer’s identity… or credentials… all we here is ‘agniveer comprises of IITians, PhDs, Scholars etc etc’. if you are an association of people, give out your credentials atleast and expertise. Not one scholar or IITian or a professor is officially associated with this website. and people here keep commenting ‘oh great article agniveerji…’ etc. shows the level of ignorance in the administrators and the gullibility of the audience.

      • How is that relevant? If you find something wrong, why not write a refutation and start another anti-Agniveer site. There is no fatwa against opening an anti-Agniveer site.

        Just because you are unable to refute the points, you are raising a red-herring. Say Agniveer team comes with names X, Y, Z. How does that change the reality? Why not focus on the points raised by Agniveer rather than getting personal. Internet is free for all and let us say Agniveer started a site and thousands others support him. How does that affect you? You can choose to ignore the site if you feel everyone here is fool. If you disagree, you can start your own site.

        Agniveer has asked thousand times to state even one single reference in entire site which is defamatory to anyone or demeaning in any manner. Why don’t you provide that reference instead?

        BTW refer http://agniveer.com/3478/who-is-agniveer/

        Raja

      • “How is that relevant? If you find something wrong, why not write a refutation and start another anti-Agniveer site. There is no fatwa against opening an anti-Agniveer site.”

        you missed the point buddy. why do you people believe his words when his identity is unknown?

        i am not arguing here about the articles. although that will be done shortly.

        I wanted a clarification. Thats why i brought this up.

        “Just because you are unable to refute the points, you are raising a red-herring.”

        why do you assume i am unable to refute the points? i was asking a clarification.

        “Say Agniveer team comes with names X, Y, Z. How does that change the reality?”

        what reality you talking about? most articles are biased. i seriously think that the authors on this site lack interpretation skills. proofs shall be provided if required.

        besides, I prefer to be more willing to analyse and even believe words of people who are an authority on the subject rather than an unknown figure.

        “Why not focus on the points raised by Agniveer rather than getting personal. Internet is free for all and let us say Agniveer started a site and thousands others support him. How does that affect you? You can choose to ignore the site if you feel everyone here is fool. If you disagree, you can start your own site.”

        Has agniveer not made any personal remarks agaisnt Zakir Naik?
        All this effects me because i am a responsible citizen of this country and i like to keep my country clean of all these people who try to divide the nation.

        “Agniveer has asked thousand times to state even one single reference in entire site which is defamatory to anyone or demeaning in any manner. Why don’t you provide that reference instead?”

        almost all the articles on other religions contain defamatory references… why dont i ask one of u to name a topic here? and we discuss about that? kinda like a lucky dip 🙂

        “BTW refer http://agniveer.com/3478/who-is-agniveer/

        I have read that article before posting my query. BTW, dont you think Zakir Naik would get a lot more of these death threats than agniveer? it didnt stop him from posting his details?

        see: http://www.irf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=74

        and the video u posted… the same applies to agniveer 🙂

      • Namaste Hamza

        ————you missed the point buddy. why do you people believe his words when his identity is unknown?———-

        1. Believer of Gaib questioning belief in unknown? Hmm.. We are the experts of Ghaib which you have been kept illiterate from 😉

        2. Are identities of Allah, Muhammad, Satan, Gabriel, Adam, heaven, hell etc known to you? If yes, tell us when did you see those! If no, why asking Raja about Agniveer?

        ———–i am not arguing here about the articles. although that will be done shortly.————

        Before you do it, please do one thing, read all the comments posed along with the articles on this site. Come up with only those arguments which you think have not been discussed here.

        ———–what reality you talking about? most articles are biased.————

        Biased towards whom? Yes, Agniveer stands by the truth and thus frauds like Zakir and his followers find him opposite end 🙁

        ————i seriously think that the authors on this site lack interpretation skills. proofs shall be provided if required.————

        As Brother Raja suggested, try to refute his arguments. Yes proofs are required.

        ————–besides, I prefer to be more willing to analyse and even believe words of people who are an authority on the subject rather than an unknown figure.————-

        1. So you mean any unknown figure to you can never be the authority on any subject? Well think again. Allah, Muhammad, Adam, Satan….. etc will pop up every time whenever you will give this argument 🙁

        2. What you used to do in your school/college days BTW? In the exams probably you would have refused to give solutions to the questions asked because the question paper were set by UNKNOWN figures every time 🙂 If not, refute Agniveer.

        ————Has agniveer not made any personal remarks agaisnt Zakir Naik?———–

        Listen Mr/Ms Hamza. My mother was a Muslim. Then she converted to Vedic Dharm and now she is propagating Vedas. But now terrorist Zakir Naik says that my mother deserves death as per Islamic laws. You tell me, what does Shariya say about my mother? I consider Ram Prasad Bismil as my role model. But Zakir Naik says that he failed in one exam i.e. of Eeman and thus he will be in hell irrespective of his sacrifices for the nation.

        Get one thing in your mind. If I criticize Qasab or Osama for their terrorist views and acts, is that unacceptable for you? If no, at the same grounds we criticize Zakir Naik because of his terrorist views on apostasy etc. If yes, it does not matter at all for me 🙂

        ———–All this effects me because i am a responsible citizen of this country and i like to keep my country clean of all these people who try to divide the nation.————

        Tell me what do Shariyat and Zakir Naik say about my mother? I will tell you how to keep our country clean and of whom 🙂

        ————almost all the articles on other religions contain defamatory references———-

        Self defeating argument indeed! References are the quotes taken directly from Quran and Hadith! So you believe that Quran and Hadith contain defamatory stuff?

        —————-… why dont i ask one of u to name a topic here? and we discuss about that?———

        I want to talk about punishment of apostasy in Islam. What should happen to my mother as per Islamic law?

        —————-dont you think Zakir Naik would get a lot more of these death threats than agniveer?——–

        No 🙂 Because he is protected by Wahabi terrorists and Saudi funds. Muslims are most secured people in India if they are worst secured in Islamic countries 🙁 So dont worry

        Hope you come up with something substantial next time

        Thanks

      • @Vajra

        apostasy : a total desertion of or departure from one’s religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

        For apostasy (people leaving Islam) there is absolutely no punishment as per Sharia or the Quran. Many people have tried to explain you all on this site the same thing.
        Apostasy is only punishable when a person deserts Islam, and starts causing mischief towards Islam. Even then, as per Sharia, it is the State’s discretion to decide if the person needs to be be punished/killed. If you start quoting any Hadiths or verse from the Quran, kindly quote me the context of the said incidents. Only then shall I counter your points.

        So assuming you and your mother is in India, you two need not worry about this concept. As it does not concern you.

        Thanks.

      • @Hamza:

        What if Vajra and his mother belong to a country where Islam is official religion? Say Zakir Naik is successful in his designs and tomorrow India becomes a Muslim majority country. Then because Zakir Naik says that Islamic Shariat is best law, suppose India accepts Islamic Shariat as official law.

        Now if Vajra’s mother were to reject Islam, embrace Vedic Dharma, marry a Hindu, propagate that there is no Hell, Heaven, Prophet etc and that Vedic Dharma that states that one need not be Muslim to go to Heaven is true. Is she punishable or not?

        If not, then Zakir deserves criticism for stating that non-Muslims cannot propagate their religion in Muslim country. And that an apostate should be killed if he or she propagates the new faith.

        If she is punishable, then you are also a terrorist.

        Also, you say that this site hurts you because it defames Zakir Naik. Why does it not hurt you when Zakir Naik categorically says that all non-Muslims will go to Hell forever regardless of their good deeds? I am a devotee of Guru Govind Singhji. I am an admirer of Sant Kabir. I worship my mother and father who are saintly persons. Major Unikrishnan died fighting for nation. Netaji Bose gave us freedom. There are many other role models who are my source of inspiration, my father, my mother. But Zakir Naik says that all these will go to Hell simply because they refused to accept Islam.

        How dare he curse all of them? Is he a Prophet of God? And if he can curse all who don’t believe in him, then what stops Agniveer from exposing this pervert like many Muslims have also exposed.

        BTW you failed to reproduce even one single sentence from this site that is derogatory. (There is nothing derogatory about condemning someone who says clearly that my father and mother will go to hell forever simply because they were not Muslims.)

        Raja

      • @Hamza

        My mother is now preaching that the book in which polygamy, sex slavery, plunder, and persecution of non Muslims is allowed is not Allah’s book and thus Quran is not divine. She also preaches that Muhammad Sahib did many wrong things (for example polygamy, pedophilia, abduction, loot etc) and people should not follow him. She preaches that Vedas are truth and she invites people to Vedic Dharm. Is my mother causing mischief towards Islam?

        Now tell, what you and terrorist Naik gonna do to her as per Shariyat? Imagine a case which Raja discussed that suppose India becomes Muslim majority and Hamjas and Zakirs of India have removed the mask of secularism/Islam means peace/no compulsion in religion type crap and have started showing their true Islamic color?

      • @Raja

        If she is part of a country governed by shariah law, its upto that country to decide whether Vajra’s mother should go on trial. About what happens when India becomes a Muslim majority, India has been ruled by Muslims before, for 400 years almost, maybe more. Hindus have prospered even during that time. So, use your imagination.

        “Now if Vajra’s mother were to reject Islam, embrace Vedic Dharma, marry a Hindu, propagate that there is no Hell, Heaven, Prophet etc and that Vedic Dharma that states that one need not be Muslim to go to Heaven is true. Is she punishable or not?”

        Counter question: If vajra, rebels against his mom, starts slandering his mom in public who actually is a very nice lady with high morals, would vajra be punishable or not?

        If he is not punished, then what is the state of the law in the country?

        “Also, you say that this site hurts you because it defames Zakir Naik. Why does it not hurt you when Zakir Naik categorically says that all non-Muslims will go to Hell forever regardless of their good deeds? I am a devotee of Guru Govind Singhji. I am an admirer of Sant Kabir. I worship my mother and father who are saintly persons. Major Unikrishnan died fighting for nation. Netaji Bose gave us freedom. There are many other role models who are my source of inspiration, my father, my mother. But Zakir Naik says that all these will go to Hell simply because they refused to accept Islam.”

        I never said this site hurts me because it defames Zakir Naik. Stop misquoting. Why does it hurt you when Zakir Naik categorically says that all non-muslims will go to Hell forever regardless of their good deeds? Also, please give me the reference where Zakir Naik has said that exact thing you have quoted or even implied. I was not able to find any. Be a devotee or a follower of who ever you like. I have no objections. Please give the reference where Zakir is implying or quoting any of those people going to hell.

        “How dare he curse all of them? Is he a Prophet of God? And if he can curse all who don’t believe in him, then what stops Agniveer from exposing this pervert like many Muslims have also exposed”

        Curse? When did he do that? Provide the link requested above first. Thanks.

        “BTW you failed to reproduce even one single sentence from this site that is derogatory. (There is nothing derogatory about condemning someone who says clearly that my father and mother will go to hell forever simply because they were not Muslims.)”

        I guess you didnt read my first comment here completely. I said I shall be doing that shortly. I do not want to have all possible things to discuss in a single thread. So it would be greatly appreciated if we all just stick to the current point being clarified before bringing anything new. 🙂

        @vajra, i guess this same comment replies your queries also.

      • @Hamza:

        You are trapped here.

        1. Be clear on what Shariat Law based on Quran says. Don’t put it on law of that particular country.

        If you talk about India, forget that India ever had a dominating Muslim rule. The invaders were always in constant war with local warriors and hence ultimately Mughal empire reduced to Red Fort in Delhi. But wherever Muslims dominated, they were worse than butchers. Anyways lets leave history for time being.

        Simply state that do you justify that in a Muslim country, non-Muslim be not allowed to say that Islamic beliefs are wrong? And if they propagate their beliefs, they should be punished.

        2. Refer this video where Zakir Naik clearly states that regardless of other good deeds, unless one is Muslim, he will have to go to Hell. If Zakir can talk this bullshit, why can’t Agniveer condemn Zakir Naik for this?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsPhP4wOPx4

        3. Also review videos on http://agniveer.com/1804/terrorist-naik/ where he clearly says that Islamic Shariat is best law. And as per Islamic Shariat:
        a. Non-muslims cannot be allowed to propagate their religion in Muslim countries while Muslims have right to propagate their Islam in other countries
        b. Apostates should be killed for propagating their new religion.

        As per any sane person of modern era, anyone who holds such views is a fanatic threat to peace of world.

        Further if Quran of Zakir naik itself can condemn idol-worshippers as worst creation of God, what is the problem if Agniveer condemns anyone who wants to impose such a Quran. Or is that Muslims alone have right to condemn all?

        Any sane person would come to know what you stand for.

        Finally if this site is so disgusting to you, why don’t you ignore this site or create an anti-Agniveer site? It means that you are beginning to realize the fallacy of Zakir naik’s crap and are attracted towards Agniveer, but due to ego or fear you don’t want to accept that. I think Agniveer medicine is doing its trick. Ha Ha Ha! Howsomuch you may shout, you are beginning to realize that there is nothing abusive about what Agniveer has written. Everything is based on facts and Zakir Naik is blatantly exposed. But sometimes food takes time to digest.

      • 1. Maybe Muslim rulers were fighting the local rulers. That was to done to keep the unity. But the Muslim rulers have kept India unified for a longer time than any of the Hindu rulers. Before the early invasions by Ghazni and their likes, India was divided into very small states with constant wars between local rulers. Mughal empire on the other hand lasted close to 250-300 years. Your statement that Muslim rulers were worse than butchers, is a new age myth created for the sole purpose to show Muslims in bad light. Kindly tell me with evidence how peaceful the country was or for how long was India united when it was ruled by the local rulers.

        Kindly go through this article : http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article1704204.ece This observation by the Supreme Court of India was made only a few days ago. Reading this article makes me want to say ‘Jai ho Hon’ble Justice Markandey Katju Ji, Great observation. Dhanyavad!’

        “Simply state that do you justify that in a Muslim country, non-Muslim be not allowed to say that Islamic beliefs are wrong? And if they propagate their beliefs, they should be punished.”

        Yes in a country with sharia law, if non-believers propagate their religious beliefs they are to be punished. Guess this is all you want to hear. But you are not concerned about the context again. Shall I provide? Besides why are you so insecure about this topic? Does this imply that you believe Muslims will become a majority in India and kill/convert you? Relax buddy. You will be safe. Stop worrying about things that do not concern you. Besides, how many Muslim apostates do you know?

        2. The video is about the concept of Shirk. The video is not about Mother Teresa being in hell. Its just giving an example. Zakir Naik does not declare that Mother Teresa is in hell. It does not matter even if he does. For God is the Judge. Not Zakir Naik, and humans cannot totally comprehend the ways in which God works. But we do believe God is just and fair. No Muslim believes Zakir Naik is a prophet. His job is to promote and invite people to Islam. We take him as a normal human who can make mistakes. It is your problem if you believe Mother Teresa is in hell if he says so.

        3. Again if he is ‘declaring’ Shariat law is the best law… so what for you? It’s his opinion. This site also mentions Vedic Dharma is the best. And… Have you studied the Shariat? On what authority are you giving an opinion on Shariat? Are you a student of Comparitive religion or even comparative laws? Or a student of jurisprudence?

        3a and b. For arguments sake if I do agree to your points (Which I dont by the way) then tell me what should be done? Ask the Muslim countries to remove this law? Or ask Muslims to not propagate their religion in India? Or prohibit religious freedom in India? Make India a Hindu Rashtra?

        Sane people research from a neutral perspective. Not with a biased mind set.

        Your last paragraph is just based on false assumptions and totally incorrect. Wont bother refuting it.

      • @Hamza
        “Does this imply that you believe Muslims will become a majority in India and kill/convert you? Relax buddy. You will be safe.”

        Safe, earlier like people(minority) were in bangladesh, pakistan or in any muslim majority country? don’t know what’s your definition for ‘safe’?

      • Namaste Hamza

        ———–1. Maybe Muslim rulers were fighting the local rulers. That was to done to keep the unity. ———–

        Why the hell those bastards attacked India in first place? What they were doing in India when they belonged to Arab, Turkey and Persia?

        ———-Yes in a country with sharia law, if non-believers propagate their religious beliefs they are to be punished.———-

        This is why you are a terrorist and deserve bashing in public.

        ————But you are not concerned about the context again. Shall I provide?———-

        Yes, provide.

        ———–Does this imply that you believe Muslims will become a majority in India and kill/convert you?———–

        Yes exactly. This is what happened to the people of today’s Afganistan and Pakistan 1000 years back.

        ———Relax buddy. You will be safe. Stop worrying about things that do not concern you.——–

        Yes, I will be safe because ghazi bastards wet their pants when they hear the names of my great ancestors like Rana Pratap, Shivaji, Guru Govind Singh, Banda Vairagi, Hari Singh Nalwa, Raja Ranjit Singh etc.

        ———-Besides, how many Muslim apostates do you know?———-

        MOST OF THE PROMINENT ANTI ISLAMIC WEBSITES today are run by ex Muslims.

        ———-3. Again if he is ‘declaring’ Shariat law is the best law… so what for you? It’s his opinion.———

        1. So I declare today that Rakshas law is the best law and according to it, all Muslim males will be enslaved and their women (including yours) will be distributed to Non Muslims as Ghanimat ka maal. Now respect this as yet another opinion, right?

        2. And articles of Agniveer are also his opinion, then why crying on those?

        ———-This site also mentions Vedic Dharma is the best.———-

        Does it say anywhere that apostate of it will be killed?

        ————- On what authority are you giving an opinion on Shariat?————

        We have given opinion on Zakir’s view of Shariyat. Let you and Mullahs come forward and condemn terrorist Zakir saying that what he says is anti Islamic and Shariyat does not sanction any killing fo apostasy. But you have confessed just above that you too are a terrorist of his Mafia.

        If terrorist Zakir has authority of saying that I will not be allowed to propagate my religion in India if it becomes Islamic state, I have all authorities to burn this shit called Shariyat. Got it?

        ———— Are you a student of Comparitive religion or even comparative laws? ————

        No, I am not student of comparative religion, I am a master of it. Now talk.

        ————then tell me what should be done? Ask the Muslim countries to remove this law?——–

        Yes.

        ———– Or ask Muslims to not propagate their religion in India?———–

        Not just ask! Stop them forcefully and those violating this rule should be hanged in public if Muslims dont stop supporting the terrorism manual Shariyat.

        ————- Or prohibit religious freedom in India?————-

        Yes, prohibit religious freedom of all those who support prohibiting freedom of others in Islamic rule under Shariyat.

        ———- Make India a Hindu Rashtra?————-

        Why not? When Jihadis can dream of making the whole world Dar al Islam, why cant Hindus dream of making India Hindu Rashtra? Any problems?

        ———-Sane people research from a neutral perspective. Not with a biased mind set.————

        Terrorists are not to be studied but eliminated.

        ————Your last paragraph is just based on false assumptions and totally incorrect. Wont bother refuting it.———

        bahut meharbani aapki 😉

      • Salaam Bro Vajra,

        “Why the hell those bastards attacked India in first place? What they were doing in India when they belonged to Arab, Turkey and Persia?”

        When the Muslims attacked the province beyond the Sindh valley, there was no India. It was all just small kingdoms ruled by local rulers. Before this period, maybe India, as it exists with its boundaries today, existed only during the reign of very few rulers like Chandragupta Maurya and Ashoka. Not long after that, India was back to being the same old squabbling independant states and kingdoms. So stop being so ungrateful and accept the fact that it was because of Muslims that India got its boundaries back. Basic history, been reading it up since primary school. I guess you need to refresh your memory. Now before you start stating that History is rewritten for vote bank politics , blah blah blah… Did you read that article I posted?

        Coming to your second question now. Do you believe in regional restrictions on people too that you put forth a question like ‘they belonged to Arab, Turkey and Persia?’ Tell me, who are the Aryans and Dravidians? Are they both indigenous to Indian sub continent?

        “This is why you are a terrorist and deserve bashing in public.”

        Ok. Who gonna bash me up? You? Sitting behind a computer? Typing angry words? Very … Macho! 😉

        “Yes, provide.”

        There is only one True God and that is the truth. If you believe in Him then you have to believe in His teachings too. You are not the one to decide which part of God’s word applies to you and which one does not. Also, most importantly, you first need to discover who the real God is. Maybe after you understand the basics, you can understand why apostasy is such a big deal. We humans fear shouting back at parents, but then don’t bother talking crap bout God, when He has created the whole universe and everything else. Don’t you see a logical flaw in that kind of behaviour?

        “Yes exactly. This is what happened to the people of today’s Afganistan and Pakistan 1000 years back.”

        1000 years ago, tell me the names of the rulers in the areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan? Did the people there identify themselves as Indians?

        “Yes, I will be safe because ghazi bastards wet their pants when they hear the names of my great ancestors like Rana Pratap, Shivaji, Guru Govind Singh, Banda Vairagi, Hari Singh Nalwa, Raja Ranjit Singh etc.”

        And what territory did they command? Did they fight to form an Indian Nation? Or to get back their own little kingdoms? Did they care about their motherland? What constituted their motherland? And retrospectively, if you apply the definition of terrorists on these individuals, it totally defines them right?

        “MOST OF THE PROMINENT ANTI ISLAMIC WEBSITES today are run by ex Muslims.”

        There are only a handful of ‘PROMINENT ANTI ISLAMIC WEBSITES’. So that’s very good news because there are very few people who leave this faith compared to the rest of the religions of the world. Ali Sina, Agniveer and its team need to BUCK UP. Put in more effort! A lot more! Because you are not having the required impact as you hoped.

        “1. So I declare today that Rakshas law is the best law and according to it, all Muslim males will be enslaved and their women (including yours) will be distributed to Non Muslims as Ghanimat ka maal. Now respect this as yet another opinion, right?”

        Not really. There is this saying in English “Nobody listens to the town idiot”. So most probably if you declare so, and you probably being a nobody, you will just be ignored.

        “2. And articles of Agniveer are also his opinion, then why crying on those?”

        He is free to opine. But it would be appreciated if he is honest in his statements.

        “Does it say anywhere that apostate of it will be killed?”

        In this comment itself you have mentioned ‘prohibit religious freedom in india’ , ‘make india hindu rashtra’, and ‘Terrorists are not to be studied but eliminated’. If that is according to your Vedic Dharma, then you and I are very much alike. We believe in the exact same thing! Woohoo! Universal brotherhood just got realised!

        “We have given opinion on Zakir’s view of Shariyat. Let you and Mullahs come forward and condemn terrorist Zakir saying that what he says is anti Islamic and Shariyat does not sanction any killing fo apostasy. But you have confessed just above that you too are a terrorist of his Mafia.

        If terrorist Zakir has authority of saying that I will not be allowed to propagate my religion in India if it becomes Islamic state, I have all authorities to burn this shit called Shariyat. Got it?”

        And you have confessed that people who are against your faith should be eliminated!

        “No, I am not student of comparative religion, I am a master of it. Now talk.”

        We have been talking all this while Vajra bro. By the way, who says you are a master? Self proclamation? Pride and arrogance blinds people from reality. Learn humility. It’ll help you see things better.

        ————then tell me what should be done? Ask the Muslim countries to remove this law?——–

        ‘Yes.’

        Please go ahead and try. No one is stopping you.

        ———– Or ask Muslims to not propagate their religion in India?———–

        Not just ask! Stop them forcefully and those violating this rule should be hanged in public if Muslims dont stop supporting the terrorism manual Shariyat.

        LOL!

        “Yes, prohibit religious freedom of all those who support prohibiting freedom of others in Islamic rule under Shariyat.”

        More LOL!

        “Why not? When Jihadis can dream of making the whole world Dar al Islam, why cant Hindus dream of making India Hindu Rashtra? Any problems?”

        Yes. Here is the problem: How are you gonna make a ‘Hindu Rastra’? there is no religion called Hinduism according to the agniveer site. The vedic dharma could be the state religion. But then what? How many people actually follow Vedic Dharma? Actually, according to this site, Vedic Dharma is within all Humans right? So, basically everyone is kinda following Vedic Dharma? So that means, Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc are all in some ways followers of Vedic Dharma?……… Voila, Secularism is BACK! Vicious circle, I tell you!

        P.S. Be advised. This is your belief. Not mine.

        ‘Terrorists are not to be studied but eliminated.’

        Bravo! Whats the difference between you and the terrorists now?

        “bahut meharbani aapki ”

        Shukriya

        Peace!

      • Namaste Hamza

        ———–When the Muslims attacked the province beyond the Sindh valley, there was no India.———–

        By India I mean the place where Hindus have been living for thousands of years. That is why Persians used to call Bharat as Hindu-stan (land of Hindus). But if you are not comfortable with this definition of India, just replace India by Hindus/land of Hindus in my previous comment and read again.

        ———–So stop being so ungrateful and accept the fact that it was because of Muslims that India got its boundaries back.———-

        Boundaries of India were well defined within which Hindus used to live. Imagine you were four Brothers living in joint family, had few issues as everyone has in joint families. But suddenly an outsider comes to your home, kill many men, rape the women of your house, makes all of you slaves and then takes over your home. Now you and your Brothers dont fight because you are in no position to even live freely forget about any conflict. And then the stranger starts beating his chest claiming he made all of you live in peace and unity! Should you Brothers be grateful to the invader, killer and rapist of your own family?

        ———–who are the Aryans and Dravidians?———

        Aryans are noble people. Anywhere in the world wherever there is nobility, there are Aryans. You can find hundreds of sources refuting this fake called Aryan Invasion Theory. However even if someone attacked India before Arabs, does it justify attack, killing, rapes, conversions of Hindus by Arabs?

        ————Ok. Who gonna bash me up? You? Sitting behind a computer? Typing angry words? ————-

        You can feel safe as India is known to tolerate even terrorists like Qasab and Afzal. So you dont need to worry about much.

        ————You are not the one to decide which part of God’s word applies to you and which one does not.———–

        1. Is it? Is it you who will decide which part of God’s word applies on me or that Mullah terrorist Zakir Naik gets revelations from Allah regarding same?

        2. You and all brain dead Mullahs are not at all ones to decide for me which book I should consider divine and which I should not. I believe Quran is the word of Satan. And now I claim you are not the one to decide which part of Satan’s word applies to you and which does not! I will make sure that you will not pray to Satan and his Satanic messenger anymore 🙂 Is it OK?

        ———–Also, most importantly, you first need to discover who the real God is.———–

        Someone allowing killing, rape, abduction, pedophilia, loot, and who is associated by Muhammad- the agent as mentioned in Quran can only be Satan, not God. I believe in God of Vedas, no agent to Him, no partner, no angels, just One Eeshvar.

        ———-but then don’t bother talking crap bout God, when He has created the whole universe and everything else. Don’t you see a logical flaw in that kind of behaviour?———-

        I have problems with Quranic version of God who is thirsty of Kafir’s blood, who is enemy of His own creation (non believers), who allows evil practices like rape/sex slavery, killing, abduction, loot, pedophilia, polygamy etc. Moreover Quranic God is incomplete without His agent Muhammad who is additionally required in belief to get the ticket of heaven. So such impotent Allah is nothing comparable to blissful, shapeless, omnipotent, just, merciful, unborn, unending, unaging, beginningless, endless, unparalleled, supporter of all, master of all, omnipresent, all knowing, immortal, fearless, eternal, pure and creator of all- Vedic Eeshvar.

        ————Did the people there identify themselves as Indians?———–

        Replace Indians by Hindus in my previous comment.

        ———-And what territory did they command? Did they fight to form an Indian Nation? Or to get back their own little kingdoms?———–

        Read more about Sikh, Maratha empire. And even if they fought for their kingdoms, they were million times greater than the rapist pedophile worshipper Arabic and Turkish ghazis who invaded others’ land.

        ———–if you apply the definition of terrorists on these individuals, it totally defines them right?———–

        Wrong. Killing in self defense is justified.

        ———- if you declare so, and you probably being a nobody, you will just be ignored.———-

        Haha! I already declared and even you could not ignore 😉

        ———He is free to opine. But it would be appreciated if he is honest in his statements.———–

        Question was why Jihadis like you get haunted on Agniveer’s view when you see nothing wrong in Mullah terrorist Zakir Naik openly threatening apostates of death penalty?

        ———–If that is according to your Vedic Dharma, then you and I are very much alike. We believe in the exact same thing! Woohoo! Universal brotherhood just got realised!———–

        Woohoo 🙂 So you accept that you are a terrorist because according to Vedic Dharma you are so! I dont want to be friends with terrorists, just search for the like minded in NWFP Talibanis and Al Qaida, this is not the right place to search your brothers and establish brotherhood!

        ———And you have confessed that people who are against your faith should be eliminated!———

        No. I have confessed that those threatening me of prohibiting the preaching of my religion, killing of apostates etc are to be eliminated.

        ———–By the way, who says you are a master? Self proclamation?———-

        You asked me the question- are you a student? I gave you the answer, simple 😉

        ————- Pride and arrogance blinds people from reality. Learn humility. It’ll help you see things better.————–

        Muhammad was more arrogant than me. He claimed that he will get the utmost reserved position in Jannah because he is seal of all prophets. So pray to Allah to give Muhammad some Hidayah of not showing such arrogance before He awards him the utmost position in Jannat.

        ————Please go ahead and try. No one is stopping you.————

        You gave the option, I just accepted it 🙂 Now write as many LOLs as you can!

        ———–Yes. Here is the problem: How are you gonna make a ‘Hindu Rastra’?———-

        Did I say I dream of making Hindu Rashtra? I said Hindus! It does not include all Hindus.

        ———–Actually, according to this site, Vedic Dharma is within all Humans right?———-

        Yes, to certain extent depending upon individual. However those who think of suppressing rights of others in their rule have the light of Dharma quite faint and thus they need more guidance. So Agniveer is guiding them to the truth.

        ———–So that means, Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc are all in some ways followers of Vedic Dharma?————–

        Of course upto the extent they follow this http://agniveer.com/1634/vedic-religion/

        ———–Bravo! Whats the difference between you and the terrorists now?———–

        Same difference as Hemant Karkare had with Qasab, Shivaji had with Afzal Khan, Rana Pratap had with Akbar, and of course I have with you 😉

        May peace be upon those who need it the most!

      • Salaam Vajra bro,

        I see a lot of similarities between you and agniveer’s style of writing. It is called “Selective Reading”. You take small portions from my comments, reframe them as individual queries and give answers. Tch tch tch. Very amateurish.

        May Peace be on you… and everyone else.

      • @HAMZA
        YOu arrogant little piece of garbage. Now let me talk.

        First learn some HUMILITY. Yur religion is just one of the many many religions in the world, no claim of it being true will be accepted.

        If you wanna impose your garbage shariah law, (law of satan) we kaffirs have every single right to fight back.

        It was not muslims who united thius country, same islamic garbage. India was united during the maurya empire, the gupta empire, the hindu shshis were ruling over afghanistan, gandhari or mahabharata came from afghanistan (gandhar). Not to forget emperor kanishka.
        This was much much much BEFORE yur cult even came to India or even arabia.

        If you think apostasy is wrong, and apostate who spreads his rekligion needs to be killed, well we also consider people like you as wajib ul katal. Got it?

        If you think people like Vajra are just threathing from behind computer, plzzzz come and meet me in combat, you will know who is what.

        We hindus got every right to convert India into a hindu rashtra, and the hindu rashtra will be the stepping stone to a great hindu empire, from baku in azerbaijan to bali in indonesia. And yes, we will use the Indian muslims to fight pakistani muslims. If you want to stay alive in India, go and fight pakistan, wipe them out re attach it back to India, then we will allow you to stay in India, we know how to manipulate you muzzies.

      • Salaam vajra

        “By India I mean the place where Hindus have been living for thousands of years. That is why Persians used to call Bharat as Hindu-stan (land of Hindus). But if you are not comfortable with this definition of India, just replace India by Hindus/land of Hindus in my previous comment and read again.”

        Funny that the Persians had to name this country as Hindustan. Guess why? Because this WHOLE region was not known by any specific name DURING THAT PERIOD.
        I believe in the Definition of India that was taught to me during the course of my education and I am very comfortable with it.

        “Boundaries of India were well defined within which Hindus used to live. Imagine you were four Brothers living in joint family, had few issues as everyone has in joint families. But suddenly an outsider comes to your home, kill many men, rape the women of your house, makes all of you slaves and then takes over your home. Now you and your Brothers dont fight because you are in no position to even live freely forget about any conflict. And then the stranger starts beating his chest claiming he made all of you live in peace and unity! Should you Brothers be grateful to the invader, killer and rapist of your own family?”

        Bad example dude. If the outsider is doing all those acts and the people still don’t get together, then they are cowards, weaklings, immoral, and pathetic to not fight back. I am not associating this example to the people of those times. Maybe you can give me a better example. I like to play fair.

        “Aryans are noble people. Anywhere in the world wherever there is nobility, there are Aryans. You can find hundreds of sources refuting this fake called Aryan Invasion Theory. However even if someone attacked India before Arabs, does it justify attack, killing, rapes, conversions of Hindus by Arabs?”

        Ok I think you failed to understand the point I was trying to make. I am not talking about the meaning of the term Arya. I am talking about the Aryan race. You can’t deny it does not exist/existed as you still see the resemblances in physical characteristics in people of North India and Europe. It is a scientifically proven fact too. Also, before the so called ‘Arab Invasion’, was there no rape, murder, fighting, crime in this region? You keep stating that the Muslim rulers invaded, plundered, killed, raped blah blah blah all the time. Which historian’s report is it? A Pandit Professor?

        “You can feel safe as India is known to tolerate even terrorists like Qasab and Afzal. So you dont need to worry about much.”

        India tolerates such people to use them for political purposes. Nothing more. Anyway, stop changing your stance. You said I deserved a public bashing. Now you saying I need not worry. Make up your mind man!

        “1. Is it? Is it you who will decide which part of God’s word applies on me or that Mullah terrorist Zakir Naik gets revelations from Allah regarding same?”

        God has sent enough signs time and again. For a person with an open mind, it is not difficult to spot the truth and find God’s signs.

        “2. You and all brain dead Mullahs are not at all ones to decide for me which book I should consider divine and which I should not. I believe Quran is the word of Satan. And now I claim you are not the one to decide which part of Satan’s word applies to you and which does not! I will make sure that you will not pray to Satan and his Satanic messenger anymore Is it OK?”

        Believe what you will. My job was to show you the path.

        “Someone allowing killing, rape, abduction, pedophilia, loot, and who is associated by Muhammad- the agent as mentioned in Quran can only be Satan, not God. I believe in God of Vedas, no agent to Him, no partner, no angels, just One Eeshvar.”

        It is your twisted and malicious mind that interprets God’s word in such ways. Tell me. If Islam really did propagate this, why has it flourished so much in a span of 1400 years? Why is it that Vedic Dharma being the oldest religion, has not spread beyond the boundaries of this region to any other part of the world until very recently? If God wanted the Vedic Dharma for the whole Humankind, why even after 4000 years (Or 8000) of its revelation, did it still not spread to the rest of the world?

        “I have problems with Quranic version of God who is thirsty of Kafir’s blood, who is enemy of His own creation (non believers), who allows evil practices like rape/sex slavery, killing, abduction, loot, pedophilia, polygamy etc. Moreover Quranic God is incomplete without His agent Muhammad who is additionally required in belief to get the ticket of heaven. So such impotent Allah is nothing comparable to blissful, shapeless, omnipotent, just, merciful, unborn, unending, unaging, beginningless, endless, unparalleled, supporter of all, master of all, omnipresent, all knowing, immortal, fearless, eternal, pure and creator of all- Vedic Eeshvar.”

        Misinterpreted, misquoted, garbage.

        ————Did the people there identify themselves as Indians?———–
        “Replace Indians by Hindus in my previous comment.”

        So they were fighting a religious war? Which means, Jihad? Which is what the Muslims are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine? (I am not mentioning India as the terrorists here are more politically motivated than by religion)

        ———-And what territory did they command? Did they fight to form an Indian Nation? Or to get back their own little kingdoms?———–
        “Read more about Sikh, Maratha empire. And even if they fought for their kingdoms, they were million times greater than the rapist pedophile worshipper Arabic and Turkish ghazis who invaded others’ land.”

        Stop using so many adjectives. Your sentences are something like this “The great honourable wise Hamza is debating the weak stupid Vajra.” Let the sentence only be “Hamza is debating Vajra.” Let there be scope for analysis. Show a neutral perspective. Let the readers analyse. Be fair. Be truthful. DONT be Biased.

        Coming back to the point, how were they greater than the Arabs? They didn’t succeed in making rulers leave this land. And also stop saying the rulers were Arabs. Arabs are a different race. Very few of them came to India.

        “Wrong. Killing in self defense is justified.”

        YES! I Agree!

        “Haha! I already declared and even you could not ignore ”

        Least amusing. Very childish.

        “Question was why Jihadis like you get haunted on Agniveer’s view when you see nothing wrong in Mullah terrorist Zakir Naik openly threatening apostates of death penalty?”

        Again… mind the adjectives dude. Anyway, my comments no where even slightly show that I am haunted by Agniveer’s view. In fact, I rather find his views amusing. It is you people who seem to be paranoid about Zakir Naik and his speeches. No wonder you misinterpret things.

        “Woohoo So you accept that you are a terrorist because according to Vedic Dharma you are so! I dont want to be friends with terrorists, just search for the like minded in NWFP Talibanis and Al Qaida, this is not the right place to search your brothers and establish brotherhood!”

        May I ask what your definition is of a terrorist? Anyway, sad that we can’t be friends. Atleast it would have resulted in one less conflict in this world if we were friends. Also, no matter how much you or anyone else denies, the brotherhood is growing, brother.

        “No. I have confessed that those threatening me of prohibiting the preaching of my religion, killing of apostates etc are to be eliminated.”

        Are the Arabs prohibiting you from preaching your religion in India? And are they threatening to kill your mom? So why you worry? Do you want to wage war against Saudi Arabia? Be careful what you answer. Don’t do the same mistakes as your previous comment 😛

        “You asked me the question- are you a student? I gave you the answer, simple ”

        Totally immature again.

        “Muhammad was more arrogant than me. He claimed that he will get the utmost reserved position in Jannah because he is seal of all prophets. So pray to Allah to give Muhammad some Hidayah of not showing such arrogance before He awards him the utmost position in Jannat.”

        Muhammad didn’t claim that. It was the God’s message to Muhammad. Muhammad was doing his job.

        “You gave the option, I just accepted it Now write as many LOLs as you can!”

        I really would like to write more LOLs. You did have the option to not accept the offer? Why you grinning about it now?

        “Did I say I dream of making Hindu Rashtra? I said Hindus! It does not include all Hindus.”

        Ok. Your sentence is grammatically incorrect. I am unable to make much sense. You said all Hindus can dream of making Hindu Rastra but it does not include all Hindus? Please rephrase?

        “Yes, to certain extent depending upon individual. However those who think of suppressing rights of others in their rule have the light of Dharma quite faint and thus they need more guidance. So Agniveer is guiding them to the truth.”

        Yea guidance, how many times are you going to contradict yourself? In some places you say people who suppress your religious freedom should be punished, some places you say guided. And you are a master of comparative law.

        ———–So that means, Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc are all in some ways followers of Vedic Dharma?————–
        “Of course upto the extent they follow this http://agniveer.com/1634/vedic-religion/”

        We follow most of those teachings so we are pretty close to the Vedic Dharma. Just like the general population of India. So now what about forming a Hindu Rastra with Vedic Dharma as state religion?

        ———–Bravo! Whats the difference between you and the terrorists now?———–

        “Same difference as Hemant Karkare had with Qasab, Shivaji had with Afzal Khan, Rana Pratap had with Akbar, and of course I have with you ”

        Hemant Karkare is a national hero and Qasab is to be killed that I don’t deny. Shivaji tricked Afzal Khan while negotiating terms and stabbed him. Not a very warrior attitude. Infact that kind of tactics are now deployed by the so called terrorists. Maharana Pratap wanted HIS land back. And… You and I? I came to debate. You want a conflict. Who is the terrorist?

        “May peace be upon those who need it the most!”

        May peace be on you and everyone else!

      • @dharmayodha, @hamza,@vajra

        I got one doubt, What is the punishment for naming my dog as Ishwar or Allah or Yahweh( Christian god)? Ask this question to all the religious heads and the religion which threatens most is the most violent religion.( physical threatening gets the most points. Threatening of hell gets a bit less points).

      • Mr/Ms Hamza, don’t you have to tell us as to what will we be doing. Writing is the first step towards building a movement. Unless people are made aware of the facts, they won’t join it, and without mass support, the movement will eventually run out of steam. Of course, physical action on the ground in the next logical step towards realization of our goal, but first, we must write and write extensively at that. So, you can keep your advice to yourself. When the appositive time comes, you will definitely see us bending our backs.

      • Namaste Sister Hamza

        ———-Funny that the Persians had to name this country as Hindustan. Guess why?———-

        Perhaps you didn’t notice the word “Bharat”, which Persians used to call Hindustan, just like English call it India. Aryavart/Bharat/Jambudveep are the Sanskrit names whereas Hindustan is Persian name and India is English name of this country.

        So no need to guess why!

        ———–If the outsider is doing all those acts and the people still don’t get together, then they are cowards, weaklings, immoral, and pathetic to not fight back.————

        Yes agree with you completely. Today’s Muslims of Afganistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc were not brave enough to defend their land, men, women and faith. Those who protected are today’s Hindus who survived the barbaric rule of invaders.

        ———-I am talking about the Aryan race.———

        There is no mention of Aryan race (based on birth) in Vedas.

        ————–You keep stating that the Muslim rulers invaded, plundered, killed, raped blah blah blah all the time. Which historian’s report is it? A Pandit Professor?————-

        No, the killers themselves. Try to read Baburnama by Babur himself. Read Aain e Akbari by Abul Fazal, one of Akbar’s Navratn and you would know that the pillars of cut heads of your ancestors used to be made by these Ghazis so that people surrender to Islam without delay and resistance. Read http://satyagni.com/1817/babri-masjid/ and know more about the rapist of your mother and sisters which you are so proud of.

        ———–Anyway, stop changing your stance. You said I deserved a public bashing. Now you saying I need not worry. Make up your mind man!————

        There is difference b/w what you deserve and what you actually get in countries like India where sickulars have all powers in their hands.

        ————God has sent enough signs time and again. For a person with an open mind, it is not difficult to spot the truth and find God’s signs.————

        Your God sent signs for you so be happy, follow what you want. Why forcing your beliefs down my throat? Why I HAVE TO believe in the signs which I have never seen?

        ———–Tell me. If Islam really did propagate this, why has it flourished so much in a span of 1400 years?———–

        Through sword in past and through deception in present. This is for you http://agniveer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Islamic_conversion_india.pdf

        ———–Misinterpreted, misquoted, garbage.————

        Hasn’t Allah allowed you polygamy, sex slavery, pedophilia, loot, killing of Kafirs etc? Did not Muhammad himself keep more than 10 wives and many sex slaves?

        ————–So they were fighting a religious war?————

        So you mean if you have issues with your Brother, it will be a religious war/Jihad because he and you are both Muslims! I think you have just graduated from IRF Madarsa or are all set for the convocation 🙂

        ————Stop using so many adjectives.————

        You can forget rape and killing of your ancestors, not me.

        ———-“Wrong. Killing in self defense is justified.”
        YES! I Agree!———–

        So do agree that Shivaji and Rana Pratap etc were brave warriors not terrorists like whom they were fighting.

        ———May I ask what your definition is of a terrorist?———-

        Who kills or threatens or supports these two of killing/harming anyone for his/her religious personal beliefs or any change in those are terrorists.

        ————-Anyway, sad that we can’t be friends.———–

        How can I be a friend with someone who thinks that my mother needs to be eliminated because she is an apostate of Islam and is spreading her new religion along with giving her views on Islam?

        ———-Also, no matter how much you or anyone else denies, the brotherhood is growing, brother.———–

        My mother’s respect and safety comes at much much higher priority for me than becoming friend with her harm wishers.

        ————Are the Arabs prohibiting you from preaching your religion in India?————

        They are prohibiting me of preaching in Arab whereas themselves are preaching Islam in India. This hypocrisy needs to be stopped.

        ————- And are they threatening to kill your mom? So why you worry?———–

        Terrorist Mullah Zakir and his supporters want it to happen as per Shariyat. I will make sure that this shit called Shariyat can not be imposed in my country India.

        ————Do you want to wage war against Saudi Arabia?————

        Not now. I want ban on preaching of Islam in India until Saudi Arab allows me to preach Vedas there. I want equal treatment of Hindus and Muslims worldwide. If Muslims want to impose Shariyat in India, I have all rights to impose Vedas not only in India but in Saudi Arab also.

        ————-Don’t do the same mistakes as your previous comment————

        what were those?

        ———-Muhammad didn’t claim that. It was the God’s message to Muhammad. Muhammad was doing his job.———–

        So my mastery is also not my claim, it was the message from God 😉

        ————You said all Hindus can dream of making Hindu Rastra but it does not include all Hindus? Please rephrase?————-

        If all Muslims can dream of making world Dar ul Islam, all HINDUS HAVE MORAL RIGHT TO THINK/MAKE INDIA A HINDU RASHTRA. So all hindus have moral right of doing so, now its upto individuals what they actually do/think.

        ————-In some places you say people who suppress your religious freedom should be punished, some places you say guided.———-

        Punishment is also a kind of guidance which makes one understand the truth better and gives him/her the chance to rectify his/her stand in future. Concept of rebirth will help you if you want to question that how death punishment be helpful for the terrorists in future 🙂

        ———-And you are a master of comparative law.———-

        Yes, without doubts! Its God’s message, not my claim 😉

        ———–We follow most of those teachings so we are pretty close to the Vedic Dharma. Just like the general population of India. So now what about forming a Hindu Rastra with Vedic Dharma as state religion?————

        Leave aside the evil Quran and Hadith sanctioning rape, killing, polygamy, pedophilia, and loot etc. You will qualify for calling yourself the follower of Vedic Dharma in true sense. Hindus also have to improve their characters and beliefs to become true Vedic Dharmi but Muslims have even bigger challenges.

        ———–Hemant Karkare is a national hero and Qasab is to be killed that I don’t deny.———-

        Thanks for acknowledging so! May I ask which verse of Quran Qasab violated in his actions BTW?

        ———–Shivaji tricked Afzal Khan while negotiating terms and stabbed him. Not a very warrior attitude.———–

        Afzal Khan tried to stab Shivaji first and then got what he deserved. He wanted to play Taqiya with Shivaji but Shivaji was well aware of the character of Momins.

        ———— Maharana Pratap wanted HIS land back.———–

        Any wrong in this?

        ————I came to debate. You want a conflict. Who is the terrorist?—————

        You supported terrorism here. You supported killing of apostates. So you are a terrorist (intellectual) and I am the defender of noble people because I am opposing a terrorist.

        May peace be upon those who need it the most!

      • @SDC

        Do you know the distinction between propaganda and facts?

        @ Vajra

        Will reply to your comment in sometime. Too tired tonight.

        BTW, Hamza is a male name. And since you dont know that, you dont know who Hamza was in the Prophet’s time. Therefore, your knowledge of the basics of Islam and its history is very disappointingly bad.

      • So, Mr. Hamza, I did not claim to be expert in the basics of Islam or its history but that’s besides the point. Who is going to decide as to what is propaganda and what are facts? You or Zakir Naik or someone from your ilk? It’s like saying heads I win, tails you lose. Quite clever!

      • And, by the way, Mr. Hamza you seem to be appallingly deficient in the knowledge of your own great ancestors. Study more of Shivaji, Maharana Pratap, Chandragupta Maurya, Ashoka, etc. It will help you more than the study of the people who lived in distant arab lands.

      • @Hamza
        We DID what we did and showed you in gujarat. Why are you cowardly muzzies crying? You got no guts? What we can do in gujarat, we can damn well do all over India

      • @Hamza
        —————-“Why not? When Jihadis can dream of making the whole world Dar al Islam, why cant Hindus dream of making India Hindu Rashtra? Any problems?”

        Yes. Here is the problem: How are you gonna make a ‘Hindu Rastra’? there is no religion called Hinduism according to the agniveer site. The vedic dharma could be the state religion.———————————————

        My opinion is totally different. I don t want India to become a hindu rashtra, I just want India to become an anti-islamic republic of India. ALL kaffirs are first class citizens, momins are second class citizens, they are our slves, , for hewers of wood and drawers of water.

        Dhanyawad.

  32. Bangladeshi Muslims Burn Bhagavad Gita after destroying Temple

    by Upananda Brahmachari of hinduexistence blog
    Mohammedan fanatics burned sacred Hindu scripture “Srimad Bhagabad Gita” after destroying 555 yrs old Hindu temple complex in Islamic Republic of Bangladesh.

    Srimad Bhagavad Gita burned, Srivas Angan destructed and partially grabbed by Islamists in Bangladesh.
    In the series attack upon the Hindu Temples in Bangladesh in recent months, aiming to frighten the minority Hindus there and to grab the Hindu temple properties within a so called secular regime of Awami League Govt. headed by Sheikh Hasina, latest feed back came to us about a total resentment of the retaliating Hindus in the nefarious design of burning of “Srimad Bhagabad Gita” in the temple complex of Sribas Angan in the vicinity of Beyani Bazar of Sylhet district. Before this culpable act the Islamist perpetrators destroyed the ancestral deities of this “Sree Sree Lakshmi Narayan”, “Lord Shiva” and “Radha Madhav Jiu” of Achray Sribas Swami, a great Sanskrit scholar ever and the champion companion of Sree Sree Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (1486–1534), a great spiritual leader in India for his Bhakti Movement.
    The ancestral complex Sribas Acharya is considered as a heritage monument and famous Tirtha Khestra (pilgrimage resort) for Hindus comprising with very old “Sree Sree Lakshmi Narayan Mandir”, “Pancha Tattva Mandir”, and “Siva Mandir” was destroyed by the local Mohammedan land grabbers and perpetrators.
    On 02.04.11, morning at about 10.00 am in broad day light, local influential perpetrators and land grabbers backed by ruling parties burned at least ten copies of Sreemad Bhagbad Gita with many religious books in front of local people after rampaging the whole pilgrimage complex to ensure a Islamic capture over a Hindu rights upon a temple property(Devottar sampatti). The fanatic Mohammedans successfully tried to destroy the relics of famous library building of Srivas Swami where a good collection of Hindu classic literatures and scriptures were the main attraction for the erudite students of the Master Srivas, across eastern India. It is believed that Srivas Swami started here an indigenous block print method (printing press) to copy old Sanskrit Texts. For a very unfortunate fate of the Hindus in Bangladesh all these historical and religious monuments have almost been perished into the Islamic aggression and the Government negligence.
    After the traumatic burning of Sreemad Bhagbad Gita and other religious books and the rampant rampage of deities and temple properties, the area of incident of Khasa Pandit Para, Beyani Bazar, Sylhet (the old historic SRIHATTA), tension raised a level of retaliation and the aggrieved Hindu locals lodged a FIR in Biyani Bazar Police Station vide no. 03/02-04-2011, u/s 143/448/294/323/379/380/506. It has come to know that one Janab Dipu Sheikh and his gang have been operating to encroach the entire five bigha (1.65 acre) of this temple property. The Muslim attackers tried to murder Sri Siddha Gaur Das Brahmachari the monk-in-charge of the temple premises and throw away all the broken deties into a nearby pond after rampaging abruptly. The perpetrators also snatched away the donation box of the main temple. Janab Dipu Sheikh maintains his political connection with Awami League and Jamat e Islami – Bangladesh, both hand in hand. Dipu has open criminal connection with Islamist to run his persecution program upon minority Hindu women, Hindu shopkeepers, general Hindu minorities and Hindu land grabbing. One Sabul Ali of Dipu’s gange physically assaulted Siddha Gaur Das Brahmachari and attempted to murder this monk-in-charge. The political affiliation vested in Dipu’s group made them a terror to the Hindu locals.
    In a protest the Math Mandir O Devottar Sampatti Raksha Samity (MMDSRS) of 79 Swamibag Road, Dhaka -1100, held an urgent press conference on 12th April 2011 at 11 am in the Dhaka Reporters’ unit, VIP Lounge, Segun Bagicha, Dhaka to draw the attention of all concerned to protect the growing torture upon Bangladeshi Hindus along with their temples, landed properties, business, women folk and even animals possessed by them.
    In a very anguished PRESS statement by MMDSRS, its convener Satya Ranjan Barai conveyed that the paramount cry of the Bangladeshi Minority Hindus do not touch even any civil society of Bangladesh, which denotes its fake secularist attitude to the damn apathy to a Hindu persecution and ethnic cleansing. Prominent Hindu activists present there demanded immediate arrest and punishments of the Muslim perpetrators caused a hell and burning of Srimad Bhagavad Gita in Srivas Angan.
    In the press note MMDSRS accused the present Enemy Property Act and its Amendments, which fueled all the Muslims to grab all Hindu properties as Muslims consider Hindus as enemies. And this is the stand point of a so called liberal Govt in Bangladesh.
    In the press statement, convener of MMDSRS pointed out in the recent past, the 200 yrs old Radha Govinda Jiu Temple at 222 Lal Mohan Saha Street, Sutrapur, Dhaka is under the Islamic scanner to grab it. Land Mafia Hazi Islam Uddin, Hazi Afjal Hossian and local Awami League President of 77 no ward, Hazi Abul Hossian Abul clubbed together to occupy the temple forcefully. Their men have been threatening the temple authorities as Hindus must close all Muth (resident of monastic orders) and Mandirs (temple) to ease the land grabbing by these Muslim Land mafias in BD. (vide GD no. 1841 dt 28-03-2011 of Ramna Model P.S.).
    In another incident, Abul Hossain Abul threatened the opposition Hindus, ” If you people do not leave your temples and religious institutions, we will not allow any kaffir Hindus to stay here peacefully. Any kind of Hindu protest will be stopped with a severe communal riot” with in very office of Addl. Police Superintendent, City SB, Dhaka. No authority could resist a venomous Abul Hossian for a while. (vide GD no. 1556 de 28-03-2011 of Sutrapur P.S.)
    In Rampura area of Dhaka, where 220-225 Hindu families reside, one Rajauk Ali encroached 75% land of a Hindu crematorium beside the “Sree Sree Gouranga Maha Pravu Mandir”, Now Rajauk is trying to occupy the lone Hindu temple of this area, for which Hindus are determined to fight Land Grabbing Jehad in Bangladesh. It is also reported that the Awami League MP Jajid Malik has destroyed one temple in Urkiya, 2 km away from Manikganj town to vacate a Hindu possession of Golak Mondal and Sarat Mondal for a proposed hospital there. In the name of so called development, hospitals, cattle houses, slaughter houses, multi storied buildings; the Hindus properties are being snatched, even not giving a minimum price.
    Pointing out an overwhelming discrimination to Hindus, it is told that when a Madrasha educated teacher gets his salary in a regular scale, then a Sanskrit scholar gets an honorarium of only Taka 120/- pm. As the Muslims claim their superiority in BD, Hindus there are treated as III class citizen. These Hindus also fought a brave fight and got tremendous torture from Pak platoons at the time of struggle of Free Bangladesh. The Math Mandir O Devottar Sampatti Raksha Samity has a plan to protest and hunger strike all over the Hindu pockets in BD. ISKCON Bangladesh is very much aggrieved as the maximum attacks are held in the Vaisnavite Goudiya Temples.
    On behalf of MMDSRS, Pinaki Das, a Hind activist of BD forwarded a mail demanding justice in favour of BD Hindus as : ”WE DEMAND PROPER PUNISHMENT TO OUR GOVERNMENT. PLEASE HELP US AND CREATE PRESSURE TO THEM FOR INITIATING PROPER STEPS.
    WE NEED FOREIGN ASSISTANCE FOR DEMANDING JUSTICE AND PLEASE SAVE THE HINDU TEMPLE LANDS WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN GRABBED BY THE ISLAMIC PERPETRATORS.”

    http://hindurevolution.blogspot.com/2011/04/bangladeshi-muslims-burn-bhagavad-gita.html

    • Namaste Totagoto

      I think Jihadis can only feel the flames of burning Quran.

      Unfortunately Hindus love flute of Krishna more than his Sudarshan Chakra. This is the only reason they are bashed every time but dont retaliate.

      • (Here’s what I ran into while webbing!)

        Crush Koran-Haters; Expose the “Rapture”

        Concerning the “May 21, 2011 Judgment Day” message on Dubai billboards that offended many Muslims and was removed, here are some facts that Muslim scholars should widely publish:
        Christians have always believed in the Second Coming of Christ. But in the internet literature of the sponsor of the “May 21” date-setting (Family Radio Worldwide of California) is found the promotion of a secret coming of Christ, called the “Rapture,” which reportedly happens not only years BEFORE the well-known Second Coming but even BEFORE the “tribulation” period preceding the final Second Coming!
        This secret (“can happen at any moment”) Rapture concept was totally unknown in all official Christian theology books and organized churches before 1830 – the year some unlearned and unbalanced fanatics in Britain claimed to have found it “hidden” in the Bible! (The appeal of this new endtime view was the “assurance” of being raptured off earth BEFORE the horrible events symbolized throughout the book of Revelation.)
        Journalist/historian David MacPherson’s research of 40 years, resulting in eight books and many articles, has uniquely focused on the early development of the same “fly-away” belief, the astounding origin of which was well-known in certain 19th century British evangelical circles and then covered up for a century.
        This escapist event, known theologically as the “any-moment, pre-tribulation rapture doctrine,” is promoted almost exclusively these days by tens of millions of very conservative American evangelicals often labeled as fundamentalists.
        Note that these are the most strongly pro-Israel and anti-Islam (Koran burning) part of American Christianity – and many among them view Islam as a great “scourge” during the Antichrist’s “tribulation” (see “beheaded” in Rev. 20:4)!
        Even though the same conservatives are seen as “infighting fundies,” their ballyhooed Rapture always seems to be the best “glue” uniting them together in victorious voting blocs during elections, not to mention the fact that Rapture promotion is also a superlative fund raiser for political agendas. If you think there aren’t big bucks in selling the same British fantasy, consider the fact that two of the bestselling books of all time were “Rapture” books written by two conservative American evangelicals, namely, Hal Lindsey (35 million sold) and Tim LaHaye (65 million sold).
        The world of Islam could easily cripple – if not demolish – American evangelicalism if it provided Islamic scholars around the world with MacPherson’s bestselling, nonfiction, 300-page book “The Rapture Plot” (available at Armageddon Books and other online stores).
        MacPherson has stated in articles that “dishonesty” (including massive plagiarism and the devious changing of early documents) best describes the bizarre, 181-year-old, British-invented pre-tribulation rapture view (Google “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” and “Pretrib Rapture Diehards”).

  33. Namaste Sharad ( Arshad ? )

    Dude if this site states facts from the Quran and the sunna …come up with a valid arguement from the Quran which disproves DR keith moore’s suggestions

    1) You are too naive:( ..Look what Keith Moore himself has to say about these so called proofs

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14514.0

    The video in question is quite old and the comments are taken somewhat out of context. Dr. Moore prefers to no longer comment on this subject.

    So my friend , if there’s anyone quoting “out of context” its you guys 🙂 .Further his publisher also clarifies that

    No Dr. Moore is not a Muslim. However he is a very thoughtful and kind hearted man and feels that everyone should be free to believe in the religion of their choice without prejudice or condemnation.”

    Slam dunked!

    2) Many other contriversian Quran attesting western “scientists” were investigated by Washington Post : http://hss.fullerton.edu/comparative/islam.htm#Western%20Scholars%20Play

    “University of Pennsylvania historian S. Nomanul Haq, a leading critic of Bucailleism, says the notion of inheriting traits from ancestors was commonplace in Muhammad’s time. He attributes the rise of Bucailleism to a “deep, deep inferiority complex” among Muslims humiliated by colonialism and bidding to recapture faded glories of Islamic science.

    Now don;t act like a dud my friend and discard all those videos that have these busted scientists fooling you with science in the Quran

    ..rather than doing that you end up putting up another link which is again a response to what the video was. Poor you just type response XYZ video you get a link and finally put up the link here commendable job 🙂

    again you miss the bus ..what i posted was a video response by Professor Kroner himself denying any science in the Quran [ its his videos that many duds post on youtube justifying “science” in the Quran].It was meant as an eye opener for you ..but you care less about truth hence you ignored this vital video proof

    Dude true Iam a dud thats y i target such sites where i have it easy because the “factual” hadith and sunna are just another ordinary discussion a poor non- muslim has anywhere around the world to degrade muslims the same old story:)

    your dudship would be surprised to know that many Islamic “scholars” come here to discuss ..they definitely learn a thing or two ( and i learn a thing or two from them too ) .You can also benefit if you can do something about your allergy to facts ,reason and logic.

    I quote from authentic islamic sources (usc.edu. altafsir.com,al-islaam.org) ..if you find them non-factual ..you must first try to oppose and shut down these sites which even Islamic scholars use as a valid reference.

    had i been a muslim scholar..i would surely have targeted some other webspace…goes to say your website can only attract duds 🙂 im only sorry if i hurt nyones sentiments ..

    The site is not at all against intellectually challenged people .. you are most welcome[just joking 😉 ]. Although the content is for rational mature people .

    What actually hurts is that you dont have a single valid argument 🙁

    dude first of all ..i really was not upto to the religious mark when people said drinking cow mutra is shubh or bring glad tiding 🙂 ..I understand that you brought up that camel piss from some misquoted verse in the hadith ..i dont blame you ..thats what all kuffars tend to do 🙂

    hmm ..so you mean to say such hadits are false?
    Sahih Bukhari
    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:
    Narrated Anas:
    Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).
    source: Namaste Sharad ( Arshad ? )

    So there you have a small hygine byte to follow 🙂

    Alas, rest of your post is a a naive argument of numbers ..rats breed fast ..that doesn’t make them the best creatures on earth.

    as you can’t defend Islam , you start hitting against hinduism..without realizing that the evils of hinduism cannot wash away the evils of Islam

    as for the number of views against the video ..that against is silly ..given the dates when the two videos have been published!

    Dhanyawad

  34. Bhai aaplog ki yahi problem hai naam ek jaisa mila kar shadyantr bata diya.

    yaani ki mujhe vajra bhai ki tarafdari karni hogi chahe jhooth mooth men hi
    apke vicharon se yahee parteet hota hai

    lekin bhai vajra ki tarafdari karne se pahle mujhe apna naam ajvar rakhna hoga.

    vajra & ajvar

    sahi kaha na

    bhai don’t mind
    ye sirf answer hai apke jawab
    haan jawab ka jawab.

    • Namaste Arshad Bhai

      ha ha ..nahi aisa kuch nahi hai ..Vajra bhai ne is ittefaq ko bas bayan kiya ..to yakayak karamchand serial yaad aa gaya 🙂

  35. Bhai Arshad Nawaz
    Namaste!

    maqsad sirf aur sirf Sharad bhai ki thedi daleelon ko unhi ke andaaz mein jhakjorne ka tha.Aakhir mein maine unse ek serious sawaal bhi kiya hai ..aur bas wahi hissa meri daleel hai .

    aapse vinaypoorvak guzarish ki us hisse ke alawa baaki ko nazarandaaz kijiyega

    maza le rahein hain ,na samjha rahe hain
    hamne dekha wo pathar, utha rahe hain
    bas unki gali mein, le jakar unko
    sheeshe ke gharon ko ginwa rahe hain 🙂

    PS: Kripaya Sharad bhai ko diye hue jawab ko anyatha na lein

    Sharad bhai ki baat logic se itni door thi ki

    • Namaste Indian Agnostic and Raja Bhai

      Sharad aur Arshad! Hmm…. Kuchh jyaada farq nahi lagta dono ke naam mein, aur daanish mein bhi 🙂

      Aapne kahawat to suni hogi ki do jism aur ek jaan! Yahan mujhe thoda juda mahaul najar aataa hai. Ek jism aur ek jaan aur do naam 🙂

  36. Bhai Indian agnostic
    Assalam-u-alikum

    ye ap samjha rahe hain
    ya maza le rahen hain

    kum se kum ved se hawala de kar logon ki galat fahmiyan door karo.

    • Sote ko jagaya jaa sakta hai, sone ka naatak karne wale ko nahi. Is site par in saare vishayon par lekh pahle hi maujud hai.

      Ye Allah ka challenge sweekar kar ke dekhiye:

      1. Is site par Vedas, Islam, Today, History, Zakir naik, in 5 categories ke saare articles padh lijiye ek baar.
      2. In saare articles ke neeche jitne comments hai, unko padh lijiye ek baar.

      Thode mehnat to hogi isme. Lekin ye Allah ka challenge hai iske baad koi kaafir bane bina nahi rah sakta. Aur jo fir bhi Kaafir nahi bante wo isliye ki Allah-tala ne Surah Bakr me likh diya hai ki usne bevkoofon ke dil par parda daal diya hai isliye wo samjhane par bhi tark nahi samajh sakte.

      Aur agar is Ilhami Agniveer site par yakeen na ho madarse walon ko, E Nabi, to unko Allah ka yah challenge suna do – Ki koi Agniveer site ke jaisi ya us se behtar ek aayat bhi likh kar dikha de.

      Yahi kaafi hai yah batane ke liye ki Paak-Agniveer-Sharif allah ne bheja hai un jahalat ke logo ko samjhane ke liye jo laasharik allah ke saath Muhammad Sahib ko bhi sharik kar lete hain.

      Yaken nahi hota to ek baar in 5 categories – vedas, islam, zakir naik, today, history – ke lekh padhkar khud hi dekh lo. Lekin jab inko padho to us waqt tak kisi se charcha-sawal-jawab na karna jab tak padhai poori na ho jaye. Haan copy-pencil se notes jaroor bana sakte ho. Tumhari is note book ke aage Sahih Bukhari aur Sahih Muslim feeke pad jayenge.

      Raja Hussain

  37. hello Dude.
    You might have been yet another wannabe trying to degrade islam making this website of yours must say commendable job!.
    These low hits website of yours serves a very weak purpose of degrading islam.I was a former hindu.Now iam a proud muslim.Iam glad i dont have to worship cowdung aur drink gau mutra (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez! that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too 🙂 ),I dont worship sun anymore .I would have stopped doing it even if i was a hindu had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there 🙂 .I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.
    Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear …men of clear intellect are turning to ISLAM and poor website of yours shows a pretty sorry face of faliure.I believe in facts so rather than quoting i would leave you with a few links to ponder with ..iam sure you wouldd scratch your *** reading all of this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx434UE3SYw
    this is part 1 there are several other part you can find them on youtube …i cant work that hard for mislead stubborn souls like yours 🙂
    Dude there are 20k people converting to islam every year just in the united stated .Wonder wat makes ISLAM as the fastest growin religion.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNxkehxS5ps
    Type “convert” on youtube search tab and you immediately get a suggestion “convert to ISLAM”
    Dude people like you really need to work hard to reverse this.I really feel for you .Best of luck 🙂 …………
    for your efforts

    • Indian Agnostic and Kal Bhairav,

      Someone came after long time, finally. Please help him. And ask his views of apostasy.

      Longing to see you in action for long!

    • Namaste brother.

      1. Neither ‘worshipping cow dung’ or ‘drinking gau mutra’ is a part of Sanatana Dharma, please provide proof proof from Vedas.

      2. Vedas clearly state that worship is to be to Ishwar and Ishwar alone, that excludes the sun and rain. Please provide proof from Vedas for your claim.

      3. Vedas do not support the worship of idols of any sort. Vedas clearly state that Ishwar is infinite, formless, shapeless and without image. Please provide proof from Vedas for your claim.

      4. Statistics show that there are much more people leaving islam than there are people being brainwashed into, this includes the USA. There are much more converts to Sanatana Dharma all over the world, you can see this in Bharat, Indonesia, pakistan, Sri Lanka (I live here), USA, UK, Brazil, etc.

      That said, please provide a proper study which backs up the video. I don’t consider NBC to be a valid source.

      5. YouTube suggestions aren’t any sort of reliable statistics.

    • Namaste Sharad Mian

      please read this response as a satire against irrational babble.nothing personal and nothing serious dude 🙂

      You might have been yet another wannabe trying to degrade islam making this website of yours must say commendable job!.

      The site states the facts of Islam from Quran and Hadits. If you find that Quran and Hadit Degrade Islam ..what should you give up? this site OR the Quran and Hadits?

      These low hits website of yours serves a very weak purpose of degrading islam.

      by that logic you are a real dud to register your greivance against such sites

      I was a former hindu.

      so what?

      Now iam a proud muslim.

      why so?

      I am glad i dont have to worship cowdung aur drink gau mutra

      You seem to be a slave of your senses ..just because you prefer camel urine to cow urine you changed your religion!!!? what kind of guy are u ?

      (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez!)

      Not at all ..since you are proud muslim ..you must raher focus on the health benefits of camel urine

      that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too 🙂 ),

      why stop at that ..your entire thought process revolves aaround piss ..you are piss personified i must say 🙂

      I dont worship sun anymore

      when you bow to the kaaba, the sun sometimes is not far away 🙂 ..you may doisown the sun , the sun may not diswon you ..from an idolater you have become an iconolater ..that’s the only difference

      .I would have stopped doing it even if i was a hindu

      the why dint you ?

      had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there 🙂

      and what’s so special going on in the kaaba? something supernatual happening there?

      .I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.

      every time you fart during prayers , Allah does not accept your prayers ..rain gods trouble you less frequently than the natural possibility of a fart 5 times a day, 7 days a week and 365 days a year 🙁

      Also when an ajami like you is invited for the hajj you would be made ganja like the hindus , run in circles 7 times like u used to do as a hindu and you will kiss a stone [ kissed by crores of pan chewing people before you]..what has changed ?

      Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear …men of clear intellect are turning to ISLAM

      you don’t even have common sense ..your conversion itself is a very bad advertisement my friend

      and poor website of yours shows a pretty sorry face of faliure.

      hmm ..is that an argument Mr. Intelligent?

      I believe in facts so rather than quoting i would leave you with a few links to ponder with ..iam sure you wouldd scratch your *** reading all of this.

      if youtube is where your intellect stops then view this and go back to your cow piss drinking ways as before 🙂

      view what do scientists really say about Islam:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClHuG880pqU

      fact is that those scientists who were paid to justify science in Quran did not convert to Islam themselves ..these videos are only meant to cpnvert special “intellectuals” like you only.

      jokes apart

      On a serious note:How smart are you if you converted to Islam by watching these videos , whereas the persons in the videos themselves didn’t convert to islam ?

      now scratch your whatever ..scratch you must

      Dhanyawad

      • Heres a response to what you may call as a factual hadith and sunna discussion
        “The site states the facts of Islam from Quran and Hadits. If you find that Quran and Hadith Degrade Islam ..what should you give up? this site OR the Quran and Hadits?”
        Dude if this site states facts from the Quran and the sunna …come up with a valid arguement from the Quran which disproves DR keith moore’s suggestions..rather than doing that you end up putting up another link which is again a response to what the video was. Poor you just type response XYZ video you get a link and finally put up the link here commendable job 🙂
        2.by that logic you are a real dud to register your greivance against such sites:
        Dude true Iam a dud thats y i target such sites where i have it easy because the “factual” hadith and sunna are just another ordinary discussion a poor non- muslim has anywhere around the world to degrade muslims the same old story:) had i been a muslim scholar..i would surely have targeted some other webspace…goes to say your website can only attract duds :)im only sorry if i hurt nyones sentiments ..
        {You seem to be a slave of your senses ..just because you prefer camel urine to cow urine you changed your religion!!!? what kind of guy are u ?

        (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez!)

        Not at all ..since you are proud muslim ..you must raher focus on the health benefits of camel urine

        that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too 🙂 ),

        why stop at that ..your entire thought process revolves aaround piss ..you are piss personified i must say :)}
        dude first of all ..i really was not upto to the religious mark when people said drinking cow mutra is shubh or bring glad tiding 🙂 ..I understand that you brought up that camel piss from some misquoted verse in the hadith ..i dont blame you ..thats what all kuffars tend to do :)..but even if i take your arguement ..compare drinking camel piss once in history to drinking cow piss as a routine in modern hindu homes 🙂
        “why stop at that ..your entire thought process revolves aaround piss ..you are piss personified i must say :)}”…..
        well i must say hinduism could have made me a completely pissonified one 🙂
        i can atleast take my mind out of animal pisses now 🙂
        “”had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there 🙂

        and what’s so special going on in the kaaba? something supernatual happening there?

        .I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.

        every time you fart during prayers , Allah does not accept your prayers ..rain gods trouble you less frequently than the natural possibility of a fart 5 times a day, 7 days a week and 365 days a year 🙁

        Also when an ajami like you is invited for the hajj you would be made ganja like the hindus , run in circles 7 times like u used to do as a hindu and you will kiss a stone [ kissed by crores of pan chewing people before you]..what has changed ?”””
        Thats y duds like me come to your site …im so glad you brought that up.Poor hindus would try anything to prove that muslims worship stone or they worship the kaaba…damn!…
        And all this while i was thinking that these people atleast know the basic principles of islam..dude you could attract betters duds than me :)..
        Typical hindus have the same problem…-islam derived out of hinuism…dude hinuism is a cult its a pagan religion ….a religion which has a million gods..If you say hinduism is the oldest and perfect way of life how come hinduism has changed due curse of years?? does a perfect religion change with time? If hinuism was god’s religion how come millions of evils crept into hinduism?
        Why are there millons of sects castes and superstitions.
        how o you explain sexual pornography in your scriptures…
        1.”Rama’s description of Sita’s beauty which is lewdly detailed (refer to C.R.

        Srinivasalyengar’s translation of Aryana Kandam, Chapter 46).
        2.”In Kiskind Kandam, Rama explains to Lakshmana of his sexual experience with

        Sita. ”
        3.”The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest but I do

        not feel it appropriate or decent for us to go into details.(Please refer to

        Aranya Kandam, Chapter 45, Verses 122, 123, 124 and 125).

        Dude this is just what they say a drop in the ocean.
        you can tune in for more :)..
        besides..we do not worship kaaba we have a center of faith which gives a direction when we bow down.kissing the stone is a sunnah (something done by the prophet) its not prescribed in the texts like hinduism.so im afraid to tell you that its nowhere close to idol worship.Besides the monopoly of idol worship lies with the hindus :)..and yes atleast i dont have to pray and hope rain gods do not get angry and go spoiling my crops every now and then..and whats with farting during prayers..i dont understand ..of course you dont go with unclean asses after shitting and sit right into the pooja …or do you? well thats just a quetion of how serious you are with your gods :)if thats the case im glad i did not sit besides you during my span of hinduism..ooo wait a minute i was in a mandir and had s shitty smelling guy sit next to me..he wore specs..i really had a tuff time negotiating thru..bro no offense how do you look like ?..
        “if youtube is where your intellect stops then view this and go back to your cow piss drinking ways as before :)”
        its a common sense when you state facts which are in the form of videos you go over to you tube or at te max dailymotion..hope you kno this :)..
        and dude the video you had show is self explanatory..waise commendable job dunno how you found that video ..6k views against some video which has a million plus views..but anyways…the video is self explanatory..the guy has a tuff time making him speak out..and in the end he confirms watever he had said on the video..and i realy dont get the video’s point.. what is it trying to prove/disprove??nver at any point did the guy says anything which disproves anythign which he had said years earlier.. dude you should come up with a clearer video….
        and yeah..and if youre trying to say the scientist did not convert to islam ..then pity on you..the whole point of this video was the relevance of quranic surahs and science..the conference was not a dawa..it was a research conference….and converting a scientist to islam would not pove anything anyways..and secondly..rather that trying to prove the video wrong you can do your own research on the ayas and how relevant they are to human embryology..you would get better answers then and definitely would have a better arguement with me..
        AND ISLAM is the fastest growing religion.major part of the growth is conversion..dont believe nbc if you dont want to ..i have another link for you hope that puts your soul at peace..
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth
        refer to the conversion article below to allay all doubts..
        heres another list of converts to islam
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Islam
        you will find that the majority of the converts are people who were either involed with spirituality or were people who had accomplished everything in life..so you see these people had converted by spiritual choice rather than material choice..
        now heres a link of converts to hinduism..
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Hinduism
        i wont go for numbers of converts as that is no indication of the power of a religion to attract people..
        you can see for yourself that majority of them are peple who either wanted fame marriage or just a position in bolywood..or had a personal love for the region or its music or its people rather than the dharma..half of these would not know there were million gods :)..this is a simple research you can carry out yourself…
        heres another one..
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_Growing_Religion..
        good luck for the sanatan dhama of a million gods 🙂 love you all

      • Hi Sharad,
        The belief of people on earth that earth is flat has not made the earth flat. So stop boasting about numbers and religion which grows because of death threats to apostasy and which makes humans as rabbits.
        If you want to prove science in quran, come up with a new scientific invention from quran. Explaining existing scientifc things is of no use. Till then shut up and stop using scince for a place in heaven.
        I suggest you one thing – go through main pages on this website and try to refute them rather than commenting here.

        Some one with common sense

      • Namaste Sharad ( Arshad ? )

        Dude if this site states facts from the Quran and the sunna …come up with a valid arguement from the Quran which disproves DR keith moore’s suggestions

        1) You are too naive:( ..Look what Keith Moore himself has to say about these so called proofs

        http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14514.0

        “The video in question is quite old and the comments are taken somewhat out of context. Dr. Moore prefers to no longer comment on this subject.”

        No Dr. Moore is not a Muslim. However he is a very thoughtful and kind hearted man and feels that everyone should be free to believe in the religion of their choice without prejudice or condemnation.”

        Slam dunked!

        2) There were many more so called “scientists” who were paid to correct the inferiority complex of Muslims and no other than washington post investigated this ..here’s the archive link : http://hss.fullerton.edu/comparative/islam.htm#Western%20Scholars%20Play

        “University of Pennsylvania historian S. Nomanul Haq, a leading critic of Bucailleism, says the notion of inheriting traits from ancestors was commonplace in Muhammad’s time. He attributes the rise of Bucailleism to a “deep, deep inferiority complex” among Muslims humiliated by colonialism and bidding to recapture faded glories of Islamic science.

        Got it bro? i am never without proofs 🙂 and all your appeals to authority have fallen flat 🙁

        ..rather than doing that you end up putting up another link which is again a response to what the video was. Poor you just type response XYZ video you get a link and finally put up the link here commendable job 🙂

        again you miss the bus ..what i posted was a video response by Professor Kroner himself denying any science in the Quran [ its his videos that many duds post on youtube justifying “science” in the Quran].It was meant as an eye opener for you ..but you care less about truth hence you ignored this vital video proof by the same scientist who is denying any such miracle in Islam.

        Dude true Iam a dud thats y i target such sites where i have it easy because the “factual” hadith and sunna are just another ordinary discussion a poor non- muslim has anywhere around the world to degrade muslims the same old story:)

        your dudship would be surprised to know that many Islamic “scholars” have created anti-agniveer sites and when they come here to discuss ..they definitely learn a thing or two .You can too , if you are not allergic to facts ,reason and logic.

        I quote from authentic islamic sources (usc.edu. altafsir.com,al-islaam.org) ..if you find them non-factual ..you must first try to oppose and shut down these sites which even Islamic scholars use as a valid reference.

        had i been a muslim scholar..i would surely have targeted some other webspace…goes to say your website can only attract duds 🙂 im only sorry if i hurt nyones sentiments ..

        The site is not at all against intellectually challenged people .. you are most welcome.Although the content is for rational mature people ..i hope you’ll adjust yourself somehow 🙂

        what hurts is that you dont have a single valid argument 🙁

        dude first of all ..i really was not upto to the religious mark when people said drinking cow mutra is shubh or bring glad tiding 🙂 ..I understand that you brought up that camel piss from some misquoted verse in the hadith ..i dont blame you ..thats what all kuffars tend to do 🙂

        hmm ..so you mean to say such hadits are false?
        Sahih Bukhari
        Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:
        Narrated Anas:
        Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).
        source: Namaste Sharad ( Arshad ? )

        Dude if this site states facts from the Quran and the sunna …come up with a valid arguement from the Quran which disproves DR keith moore’s suggestions

        1) Look what Keith Moore himself has to say about these so called proofs

        http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14514.0

        “The video in question is quite old and the comments are taken somewhat out of context. Dr. Moore prefers to no longer comment on this subject.”

        No Dr. Moore is not a Muslim. However he is a very thoughtful and kind hearted man and feels that everyone should be free to believe in the religion of their choice without prejudice or condemnation.”

        Slam dunked!

        2) There are many more so called “scientists” who were paid to correct the inferiority complex of Muslims

        Washington post archive : http://hss.fullerton.edu/comparative/islam.htm#Western%20Scholars%20Play

        “University of Pennsylvania historian S. Nomanul Haq, a leading critic of Bucailleism, says the notion of inheriting traits from ancestors was commonplace in Muhammad’s time. He attributes the rise of Bucailleism to a “deep, deep inferiority complex” among Muslims humiliated by colonialism and bidding to recapture faded glories of Islamic science.

        Got it bro? i am never without proofs 🙂

        ..rather than doing that you end up putting up another link which is again a response to what the video was. Poor you just type response XYZ video you get a link and finally put up the link here commendable job 🙂

        again you miss the bus ..what i posted was a video response by Professor Kroner himself denying any science in the Quran [ its his videos that many duds post on youtube justifying “science” in the Quran].It was meant as an eye opener for you ..but you care less about truth

        Dude true Iam a dud thats y i target such sites where i have it easy because the “factual” hadith and sunna are just another ordinary discussion a poor non- muslim has anywhere around the world to degrade muslims the same old story:)

        your dudship would be surprised to many that many Islamic “scholars” have created anti-agniveer sites and when they come here to discuss ..they definitely learn a thing or two .You can too , if you are not allergic to facts ,reason and logic.

        We quote from authentic islamic sources (usc.edu. altafsir.com,al-islaam.org) ..if you find them non-factual ..you must first try to oppose and shut down these sites which even Islamic scholars use as a valid refernce.

        had i been a muslim scholar..i would surely have targeted some other webspace…goes to say your website can only attract duds 🙂 im only sorry if i hurt nyones sentiments ..

        The site is not at all against intellectually challenged people ..you are most welcome.Although the content is for rational mature people ..i hope you’ll adjust yourself somehow 🙂

        who would get offended by a dud’s statement 😉 [just joking ]

        dude first of all ..i really was not upto to the religious mark when people said drinking cow mutra is shubh or bring glad tiding 🙂 ..I understand that you brought up that camel piss from some misquoted verse in the hadith ..i dont blame you ..thats what all kuffars tend to do 🙂

        hmm ..so you mean to say such hadits are false? >

        Sahih Bukhari
        Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:
        Narrated Anas:
        Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).

        Abu Dawud
        Book 1, Number 0066:
        Narrated AbuSa’id al-Khudri:
        The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda’ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

        there you have a small hygine byte to follow 🙂

        Alas, rest of your post is a a naive argument of numbers ..rats breed fast ..that doesn’t make them the best creatures on earth.

        as you can’t defend Islam , you start hitting against hinduism..without realizing that the evils of hinduism cannot wash away the evils of Islam

        as for the number of views against the video ..that against is silly ..given the dates when the two videos have been published!

        Dhanyawad

        http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/abudawud/001.sat.html#001.0066
        Book 1, Number 0066:
        Narrated AbuSa’id al-Khudri:
        The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda’ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

        enjoy your new hygenic ways Mr. Convert :)]

        rest of your post is a a naive argument of numbers ..rats breed fast ..that doesnt make them the best creatures on earth.

        and ypour argument against the hits against the videos is equally unjustified ..look at the dates when these two were published.

    • @sharad:

      Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear…

      Wonder why people in Muslim majority countries are afraid to come out of the closet about their deconversion…never mind.

      Feel free to believe that we Hindus begin and end our day with a glass of hot cow piss. Feel free to believe that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Whatever makes you sleep better at night, I guess. Truth is quite unrelated to your beliefs. 😉

  38. hi Dude.
    You might have been yet another wannabe trying to degrade islam making this website of yours must say commendable job!.
    These low hits website of yours serves a very weak purpose of degrading islam.I was a former hindu.Now iam a proud muslim.Iam glad i dont have to worship cowdung aur drink gau mutra (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez! that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too 🙂 ),I dont worship sun anymore .I would have stopped doing it even if i was a hindu had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there 🙂 .I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.
    Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear …men of clear intellect are turning to ISLAM and poor website of yours shows a pretty sorry face of faliure.I believe in facts so rather than quoting i would leave you with a few links to ponder with ..iam sure you wouldd scratch your *** reading all of this.
    this is part 1 there are several other part you can find them on youtube …i cant work that hard for mislead stubborn souls like yours 🙂
    Dude there are 20k people converting to islam every year just in the united stated .Wonder wat makes ISLAM as the fastest growin religion.
    Type “convert” on youtube search tab and you immediately get a suggestion “convert to ISLAM”
    Dude people like you really need to work hard to reverse this.I really feel for you .Best of luck :)…………
    for your endeaours

    • Hi sharad,
      While you are a Hindu how many times did you eat cow dung and how many time you enjoyed cow urine? I am a Hindu myself and never tasted them. As you have drank cow and camel urine could you let me know which of them tasted good?
      Men of clear intellect …my ass..Muslims are 24% of the world population and number of Nobel prizes in science…..Can we conclude from statistical evidence that Islam makes brain dull and it is only suitable for dim witted human animals

      Regards
      odd number of stones, black dog, pig.

  39. ISLAMIC INVASION OF INDIA THROUGH EASTERN CORRIDOR WITH HELP OF INDIAN MUSLIMS HAVE BEGAN. The Bangladesh are sending their ILLEGAL MUSLIM MIGRANTS to India and with INDIAN MUSLIMS want to change the demography of ASSAM AND WEST BENGAL already 5 districts of West Bengal and Assam near the border have become MUSLIM MAJORITY AREAS.

    The Bangladeshi intellectuals and even leaders like MUJIBUR REHMAN have the said that POPULATION DENSITY OF BANGLADESH IS ONE OF THE GREATEST IN THE WORLD so in order to support their MUSLIM BABY BOOM the need GREATER BANGLADESH AND FOR THIS THEY NEED TERRITORIES OF WEST BENGAL, ASSAM, UP AND BIHAR. The MULLAHS OF BANGLADESH has openly told that they will destroy the TEMPLES OF KALI IN ASSAM AND WEST BENGAL AND MAKE MASJIDS IN ITS PLACE they have started this with DEGANGA EPISODE in BENGAL GODDESS KALI IDOLS WERE DESTROYED in DEGANGA and HINDUS WERE THREATENED WITH ANNIHILATION BY INDIAN MUSLIMS IN LEAGUE WITH ILLEGAL BANGLADESHI MUSLIMS. SEE THIS LINK FOR PROOF.

    http://deganga2010.blogspot.com/

    The Indian Muslims and their LEADERS IN UP, BIHAR, ASSAM AND BENGAL are openly helping Bengali illegal immigrants in India THEY HAVE OPENLY WARNED INDIAN POLITICAL PARTIES THAT WHOEVER RAISES THE ISSUE OF BANGLADESHI ILLEGAL MUSLIM MIGRANTS WILL HAVE TO FACE ANGER OF INDIAN MUSLIMS .

    The ISI ALONG WITH DGFI OF BANGLADESH HAS ORGANIZED A GRANT PLAN TO TURN NORTH AND EAST INDIA TO MUSLIM MAJORITY AREA WITH HELP OF ILLEGAL MUSLIM POPULATION OF BANGLADESH

    They plan to convert ASSAM AND WEST BENGAL IN 20 YEARS in MUSLIM MAJORITY AREA and
    UP AND BIHAR IN 50 YEARS.

    We need RADICAL APPROACHES AGAINST BANGLADESHI ILLEGAL MIGRANTS AND IF INDIAN MUSLIMS COME IN BETWEEN THEY SHOULD ALSO BE CHOPPED OFF OR KICKED TO BANGLADESH Otherwise UP, BIHAR, ASSAM AND BENGAL WILL BECOME PART OF GREATER BANGLADESH.

    MUSLIM WANT HINDUS TO BE SECULAR SO THAT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM IN CUTTING THE HEAD OF HINDUS.

  40. Again news of Hindu persecution in the district of Manikganj has made Bangladeshi Hindus to think if this is a seculer country at all. This time the members of Bangladesh Awami League, the ruling party which declares itself seculer and pro India have burnt down temples to ground. The truth is muslims can never be seculer and they are bound to slaughter the kafirs as long as they follow the great religion Islam.

    http://hindurevolution.blogspot.com/2011/04/brutal-hindu-persecution-and.html

  41. @Ahmad/Faizan/Mushafiq/All other Zakir’s admirers

    Why dont you give the answers to the questions posed here?

    1. If killing of apostates is Anti Islamic, why Zakir Naik is not anti Islamic?

    2. If killing of apostates is not anti Islamic why are not Islamists terrorists?

    3. If killing of apostates is neither Anti Islamic nor Islamic, what is it? Is it neutral?

    4. If many Sahih Hadith sanction this practice, how is it neutral? If those Hadith are wrong/fabricated, where are those Hadith which condemn killing of anyone for changing the religion? Giving the verses of no compulsion in religion or peace with non Muslims has no meaning because they have already been abrogated by other verses like of sword’s which order to fight non Muslims until the Deen of Allah prevails everywhere.

    5. If Zakir Naik has changed his stance on it, why he is not saying it publicly? He is accustomed of giving shit in public so he must apologize for it in public. When did Zakir Naik tell you that he has changed his stance? How do we know that you are telling truth and not playing Taqiyya?

    6. If Zakir Naik can remain Islamic scholar after this established fact that he wrongly presented Islam as killer of apostates, what makes Agniveer anti Islamic? Has he ever preached to kill those, say for example Zakir Naik who has a Hindu surname and thus an apostate of Hinduism?

    7. When you consider Agniveer liar just because they wrote the word “Yunus” as “Yunis” or a verse number which had some difference with the actual number despite that the verse they quoted was there in Quran, why is not Zakir Naik a liar and a terrorist in addition who continued to preach that Islam orders to kill apostates for years? Why any Ahmad or Mushafiq did not refute his false claims about Islam?

    Be brave Brothers! Dont run away. Either call Zakir Naik a liar and terrorist or keep shut about Agniveer.

    • Namaste Brother Vajra

      These admirers of Naik will only give answers if they HAD answers, but the fact of them running away proves that they cannot answer such questions. Moreover, all their articles written are so childish and can be refuted by kids.

      @All, please see this video and see how Naik tries to change his stand, and laugh at his stupidity of beating a wife with a toothbrush!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBvfptEmops&feature=related

      • Namaste Brother Vik

        He is a big time liar. And look at his followers, dont have courage to leave this terrorist cult because they know the reality- PUNISHMENT OF APOSTASY IS DEATH.

      • Dude.
        You might have been yet another wannabe trying to degrade islam making this website of yours must say commendable job!.
        These low hits website of yours serves a very weak purpose of degrading islam.I was a former hindu.Now iam a proud muslim.Iam glad i dont have to worship cowdung aur drink gau mutra (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez! that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too 🙂 ),I dont worship sun anymore .I would have stopped doing it even if i was a hindu had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there 🙂 .I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.
        Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear …men of clear intellect are turning to ISLAM and poor website of yours shows a pretty sorry face of faliure.I believe in facts so rather than quoting i would leave you with a few links to ponder with ..iam sure you wouldd scratch your *** reading all of this.
        this is part 1 there are several other part you can find them on youtube …i cant work that hard for mislead stubborn souls like yours 🙂
        Dude there are 20k people converting to islam every year just in the united stated .Wonder wat makes ISLAM as the fastest growin religion.
        Type “convert” on youtube search tab and you immediately get a suggestion “convert to ISLAM”
        Dude people like you really need to work hard to reverse this.I really feel for you .Best of luck 🙂

  42. Agniveer Sir,
    Pls include one more very important point in the list of your six points mentioned in this article. This is the most important point that perhaps would pave the ways for implementation of six-point demands raised by you. This point is:

    “We will keep severely condemning and strongly protesting against all those individuals or groups who directly or indirectly say that they would recommend killing/jailing/torturing/harassing of anyone who criticizes or questions their belief, god, book, prophet, culture, rules, etc. Logical criticism (without using any derogatory or vulgar remarks, words, sketches, photographs, etc) of anything, person, god, book, ideology, rule, constitution, govt, formula, belief, culture, rituals, etc must be allowed, accepted and tolerated as the fundamental right of freedom of expression. ”

    Pls note that 99% critics of the this site are muslims and non-muslim secularists who are either ignorant or deceptive people. Ignorant ones can be educated, but it is hard to tackle the deceptive ones.

    Once the path of open criticism of kuran. allah, muhammad, sharia, etc is opened, millions of muslims themselves come out and start severely criticizing and questioning kuran, muhammad, sharia, etc. These muslims are forced to shut their mouths at present due to fear of severe punishments.

    Islam is alive only due to strict ban on its open criticism in all the countries of this world and fear of death penalty, imprisonment, dismissal from job, severe torture/harassment, etc. Once, you lift this ban, islam will weaken very fast.

    • Bingo!

      as someone said : freedom of expression has no meaning if it does not include the right to offend

      given ofcourse, that the criticism be rational, factual and necessarily pro-humanity

      if an irrational subhuman liar is offended by the freedom of expression..it would have served its purpose well 🙂

      • @Nikhil Namaste Brother,

        You have made very good point. I agree with you from my bottom of heart. Logical criticism always appreciated. Criticism is like an opportunity to do good and think over again be it regarding in religion or social, political matter. But I could not understand why Muslim have narrow thinking, that means they know they are wrong that is why they have law if someone having different thinking from Kuran he should be killed. This religion based on cruelty but they talk of kindness. In today Era, no one can believe in anything without logic. for example why I should believe Allah made the universe in 6 days not in one year. If I say Allah made universe in 1 year, for proving this I should have logic. But they have no logic proving 6 days funda.

  43. @AHMAD:

    so if you does not agree with this then you should renounce your Vedic Dharma and start living on a Island because every country Punishes the person who breaks the law

    (I dont remember having outsourced the question of what should constitute my Dharma to anyone else, much less to you. So, let us put aside this childish unasked-for advise from you to the side.)

    There you go again. You are equating punishment in civil secular society (with laws based on something that EVERYONE can verify) with punishment in Islam for blaspheming against Allah and his Prophet. My position is that this analogy is invalid unless one can verify the existence of Allah and Mohammed’s prophethood. Can you understand why this is so? The former is provable/falsifiable. The latter is unprovable belief system. Does that key difference compute in your brain?

    I am going to have to ask you to focus like a laser beam and do the following:

    (a)Provide EXAMPLES of what constitutes Hirabah.
    (b)If a Hindu king entered Saudi Arabia and killed Sunnis there and burnt the library, would you agree that that would constitute Hirabah?

    You have avoided answering this question over multiple posts now. My suspicions are coming true – your answer would expose your terrorist outlook. Prove me wrong by answering directly.

    • @kalbhairav,@ahmed

      >>wage war against Allah and His Prophet and strive to spread disorder in the land

      How can some person now wage war against a non existing Allah and dead prophet ?

      Also is the and in the above statement a requirement ( I mean if we just call allah/prophet names without spreading disorder) ?

      If and is a requirement can i name my dog as allah ( rasool ,ishwar or yehwah applicable too)?
      Also why all the fuss and death threats against ali sina, danish cartoons…

      if and not a requirement then i have nothing to add, the statement proves the merciful allah and peaceful religion.

  44. Exactly that’s the meaning, allying with the enemy intent on fighting the Muslims whether openly or covertly to undermine the Islamic government.
    Arabic word used in the Qur’an for corrution/corrupt is Fasad, and the meaning of corruption is EVIL OR IMMORAL OR SOMETHING WHICH HAS ERRORS OR UNRELIABLE, And the arabic word fasad translates into corruption, unlawful warfare, or crimes against law Fasad So its a crime against law

    so if you does not agree with this then you should renounce your Vedic Dharma and start living on a Island because every country Punishes the person who breaks the law and even your most beloved books Vedas call for death of the persons who opposes god, the vedas says to burn the enemy, to pierce rod etc etc and no mercy is shown by Ishwar but mercy is given by Allah.

    Slay each reviler, and destroy him who in secret injures us:
    Do thou, O Indra, give us hope of beauteous horses and of kine
    In thousands, O most wealthy One.

    (Vedas, Rig Veda – Book 1-29-7)

    Athar Veda 13:1:29 May conquering Agni, conqueror of all, destroy mine enemies. Through Agni we smite down in death and burn the foeman who attacketh me.

    What about the Vedic God who rejects those who does not worship him
    Rig Veda 6:47:17 He loves no more the men he loved aforetime: he turns and moves away allied with others. Rejecting those who disregard his worship.

    Rig Veda 6:47:17

  45. simple apostasy means changing the faith but there is apostasy combined with aggression towards Islam, called Hiraaba it is war and will be dealt with as required

    • @AHMAD:

      I looked up Hirabah. It says:

      …wage war against Allah and His Prophet and strive to spread disorder in the land

      Crap…the issue is not yet settled 🙁

      Now you need to explain to me what constitutes “waging war against Allah and His Prophet”. 🙁

      Examples, examples…do you know the word’s meaning?

    • @AHMAD:

      Since you are clearly having trouble articulating your position, let me try to help you out here.

      Read this entry that talks about Mughals sacking the university at Nalanda and killing Buddhist monks and burning books.

      If a Hindu king entered Saudi Arabia and killed Sunnis there and burnt the library, would you agree that that would constitute Hirabah?

    • @ahmed
      I am an apostate combined with aligning with the enemy in destryoing islam, and spreading fasad in the land. You gonna kill me? I am waging war against allah and his prophet, you gonna stop me?

      History is not written by those who are right but those who stay alive.

  46. Our stand is clear based on the Quran and Sunnah. We are middle nation and s we will continue educating Muslims and non Muslims alike that there is no punishment prescribed for simple apostasy. Although Islam is so attractive that no one who truly understands it would leave it. Our website is only few months old and we will deal with all these issues in due course of time. We speak with evidence from the Quran and Sunnah and Muslims are bound to accept them no matter who they are. Our attitude is not of condemning but educating.
    We do not speak truth to please you or anyone else but just because it is the truth
    coming to your points
    1.Not anti Islamic but their interpretation is wrong there. Zakir Naik does not hold this view any more
    2. Not anti Islamic, they are deviating from Islam in that particular point.
    3. I think we already made it clear. You have to understand wht these all ahadith are before saying something .

    • @AHMAD:

      We are middle nation and s we will continue educating Muslims and non Muslims alike that there is no punishment prescribed for simple apostasy.

      Yikes. Why did you have to include the qualifier *simple*. Is there a non-simply type of apostasy for which the punishment is death? So, we are back to square one. I want you to directly address my post here. Reiterating, I want examples of what constitutes *simple* apostasy and what constitutes non-simple apostasy.

      You can settle the issue by saying something like:

      There is no punishment prescribed for apostasy. Period!

    • @AHMAD
      1. Who told you that Zakir Naik does not hold this view anymore? DId he issue a press statement stating that his earlier stand was wrong and he apologizes for that? Has he stated in clear words that if in a Islamic country, someone turns apostate and propagates his new belief (that includes logical/ factual criticism of Islam but not any derogatory representation) , he is not liable for any punishment whatsoever?

      2. If Zakir Naik, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Maududi and host of other scholars/ schools/ groups/ countries are NOT anti-Islam despite they wanting to kill/punish apostates (and you claim Islam is religion of peace), then how can you call Agniveer anti-Islamic?

      Or do you want to say that being honest and logical makes one anti-Islamic but killing of people because they differ in views does not?

      3. You are still not clear on hadiths. If these Hadiths are contradicted by other Hadiths, then it means that these Hadiths are fake. And hence all those publishers, preachers who promote these Hadiths as Sahih (Correct) are acting against Islam.

      Zakir Naik, Deobandis etc claim that all Sahih Hadiths are correct and applicable. They say that these Hadiths are necessary to understand Islam.

      Thus these scholars are demeaning Islam.

      Why do you not then sever relations with people like Zakir Naik? Why don’t you publish rebuttals to Zakir Naik and other Muslim groups/ countries who consider Sahih Hadiths to be perfect and justify punishment for apostates in as many clear words. Why don’t you condemn Saudi Arabia for anti-Islamic laws punishing apostates?

      Why this double standard between treatment of Agniveer and killers of apostates?

      Kindly be clear, or you are exposing your true face despite so much of deceit.

      If you can issue a simple statement, that will solve all problems:

      “In a Islamic country, if someone turns apostate and propagates his new belief (that includes logical/ factual criticism of Islam but not any derogatory representation) , he is not liable for any punishment whatsoever. On contrary he deserves protection from fanatic elements in spirit of freedom of expression. Those who believe otherwise are against the principles of Islam. We severely condemn such views and those who hold such views in same vein as we condemn Agniveer. We will have nothing to do with such people/ groups/ countries and continue to criticize them until they apologize and rectify their stand.”

      I am sure Agniveer or any other rational citizen of the world will have no problem whatsoever in issuing this statement, if you replace Islam with Vedas, Hinduism, Christianity or anything else. Now can you state your affirmation to the above statement?

      Be clear and precise and don’t indulge in evasive arguments.

      Raja

      • Itna Sannata Kyun Hai Bhai? Ahmad Miyan namaz se kab lautenge apni kahani khatm karne ke liye?

        Bus ek baar unke mukh se yah sun lun ki:
        ““In a Islamic country, if someone turns apostate and propagates his new belief (that includes logical/ factual criticism of Islam but not any derogatory representation) , he is not liable for any punishment whatsoever. On contrary he deserves protection from fanatic elements in spirit of freedom of expression. Those who believe otherwise are against the principles of Islam. We severely condemn such views and those who hold such views in same vein as we condemn Agniveer. We will have nothing to do with such people/ groups/ countries and continue to criticize them until they apologize and rectify their stand.”

        Khuda kasam, usi waqt Islam sweekar kar lunga.

        (If Ahmad Miyan can publicly issue the above statement, I shall embrace Islam immediately.)

        Raja

      • Nahin, Wo Ayega. Tum Agni ho to wo bhi Aatish hai. Tum Veer ho to wo bhi Mujahid hai. Tum Kafir ho to wo bhi Ghazi hai.

        @Ahmad Miyan

        Jaldi se aakar in sab ka munh band kar do. Bus ek yah baat kah do taaki main jald islam kabool kar ke zannat ki booking karva sakun.

        Bus aapko yah kahna hai:
        “In a Islamic country, if someone turns apostate and propagates his new belief (that includes logical/ factual criticism of Islam but not any derogatory representation) , he is not liable for any punishment whatsoever. On contrary he deserves protection from fanatic elements in spirit of freedom of expression. Those who believe otherwise are against the principles of Islam. We severely condemn such views and those who hold such views in same vein as we condemn Agniveer. We will have nothing to do with such people/ groups/ countries and continue to criticize them until they apologize and rectify their stand.”

      • Dude.
        You might have been yet another wannabe trying to degrade islam making this website of yours must say commendable job!.
        These low hits website of yours serves a very weak purpose of degrading islam.I was a former hindu.Now iam a proud muslim.Iam glad i dont have to worship cowdung aur drink gau mutra (i know you would be coming up with the shit gau mutra has so many antibodies this that geeez! that’s a piss after all my piss has antibodies too :)),I dont worship sun anymore .I would have stopped doing it even if i was a hindu had i come to know after all its nuclear fusion which is taking place there :).I dont worhsip idols or believe that rain gods may go crazy wen they read this comment of mine.
        Anyways killing for apostasy or no killing for apostasy one thing is crystal clear …men of clear intellect are turning to ISLAM and poor website of yours shows a pretty sorry face of faliure.I believe in facts so rather than quoting i would leave you with a few links to ponder with ..iam sure you wouldd scratch your *** reading all of this.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhmFnfGC9d0 this is part 1 there are several other part you can find them on youtube …i cant work that hard for mislead stubborn souls like yours 🙂
        Dude there are 20k people converting to islam every year just in the united stated .Wonder wat makes ISLAM as the fastest growin religion.
        Type “convert” on youtube search tab and you immediately get a suggestion “convert to ISLAM”
        Dude people like you really need to work hard to reverse this.I really feel for you .Best of luck 🙂

    • To begin with we present some general considerations to demonstrate the above position before examining the ahadiths in question in detail.

      First, when a law is given it is given in a public way so that maximum number of people can know about it and follow it. Even ordinary law-givers promulgate laws to make them known widely. In ancient times a town crier would go around and read the king’s decree in public squares. This point can be illustrated by another example: if a professor wants his students to do some homework for credit, he would not tell it only to one or two students. He would either himself announce it to the whole class or make sure that the students to whom he mentioned the assignment will pass the information about it to the other students. If the knowledge of the assignment remained limited to a very few students for weeks, then the assignment cannot be binding on the class. The same principle would apply to a much greater degree in case of the Islamic law, which is meant to be for all people and for all times, and in the particular case of a law that prescribes the taking of a human life. We can therefore be sure that if the Holy Prophet wanted to give a law prescribing death penalty for apostasy, he would make it known to a large number of Companions who would then make it known to even a larger number of Successors and so on. It is not conceivable that he would prescribe a law by telling it to only one or two Companions. Therefore a hadith prescribing such a death penalty would be reported by many Companions, and then by even a greater number of Successors and so on. It would then be known to every major scholar of later generations. But the fact is that we do not possess any such hadith about the death penalty for apostasy. Whatever ahadith we have in books are gharib, being narrated by a very few Companions and Successors. This is a strong argument to show that these ahadith are among those thousands that were fabricated or subjected to tahrif by some early Muslims.

      • Second, some early Muslim scholars appear to be unaware of any hadith prescribing the death penalty. Thus a leading first-century jurist, Ibrahim al-Nakha‘i (d. 95), a teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah, ruled that an apostate is to be invited back to Islam as long as there is a hope for his repentance and is not to be condemned to death. A similar opinion is held in the second century by the hadith expert Sufyan al-Thawri (d. 161). This opinion is not likely to be held by a leading jurist and a leading hadith expert if there existed generally accepted ahadith in which the Prophet prescribed the death penalty for apostates. Our examination of the asanid of the ahadith in question would also suggest that these ahadith did not exist for most of the first century and might not have been generally known until well into the second century.

        Third, the ahadith about the death penalty are called into serious question by other ahadith that show that the Holy Prophet did not consider such a penalty for apostasy.

        Fourth, and most importantly, and most importantly, the death penalty for apostasy does not fit with the Qur`anic perspective, which rejects fitnah (persecution on religious grounds), rejects compulsion in religion, mentions apostasy many times but never mentions any legal penalty for it, and in fact permits less than the death penalty even when the crime of apostasy is accompanied by other crimes..

      • @AHMAD:

        Your post was verbatim Ctrl C, Ctrl Ved from here. Never mind that for a simple question you had to resort to Google Search to find the “consensus” Islamic position on it. (That alone indicates that you do NOT think for yourself and are a puppet in the hands of the Arabs who decree and you guys (Indian Muslims) blindly follow it.) Since you brought up this analogy, the ball is still in your court. I probed you here regarding the analogy. I will await your reply.

        Also, you need to respond to user Raja’s question which I reproduce below:

        Would you issue a blanket statement that all these publishers, preachers and websites are anti-Islamic? And also announce that you would write articles condemning those preachers and countries – like Zakir Naik, Saudi Arabia – in same manner as you write against Agniveer? Also ensure that you do not directly or indirectly support or promote these believers in punishment for apostasy?

      • Namaste Brother Ahmad

        First, when a law is given it is given in a public way so that maximum number of people can know about it and follow it.

        The source site from where you got this argument is countered by another source :

        “Whoever reverts from Islam, men and women, it is obligatory to kill him due to the Prophet’s saying: “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” The scholars have reached consensus on the obligation to kill apostates. This has been narrated from Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali, Mu`adh, Abu Musa, Ibn `Abbas, and Khalid, and it has not been opposed (by a single companion), therefore it constitutes consensus.”

        Reference: Baha’ al-Din `Abd al-Rahman al-Maqdisi (d. 624) “al-`Udda sharh al-`Umda fi fiqh Imam al-Sunna Ahmad ibn Hanbal al-Shaybani” (The outfit: commentary on Muwaffaq al-Din Ibn Qudama’s [d. 620] “The Reliance” in the jurisprudence of the Imam of the Sunna, Ahmad ibn Hanbal), Book of Punishments, first words of the Chapter on the Ruling Concerning the Apostate (Beirut: Dar al-arqam, n.d.) p. 531.

        Second, some early Muslim scholars appear to be unaware of any hadith prescribing the death penalty. Thus a leading first-century jurist, Ibrahim al-Nakha‘i (d. 95), a teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah, ruled that an apostate is to be invited back to Islam as long as there is a hope for his repentance and is not to be condemned to death

        Nice try! why not read Abu Hanifa intoto on the subject:

        “”In the case of apostasy all these dealings are to be placed under probation. If he returns to Islam, his contracts are to become operative, but if he dies in his apostasy, or is killed, or resides in ‘The House of War,’ they are nullified, because he now (in apostasy) qualifies as a frivolous or crazy (mutahauwir) warrior (harbi) — ‘he who is at war with Muslims.’ His dealings are to be rendered null and void, according to his legal position. Thus, the warring enemy and the apostate are to be treated the same. The apostate deserves the death sentence. There is no reason for him to enjoy the protection of Islam any longer. Consequently, he is incompetent, unlike the adulterer and murderer who, although they deserve death because of a crime, still enjoy the protection of Islam, since the reason for protection still exists: Islam. Thus, the adulterer and murderer do not lose their property. He is also unlike the apostate woman who is not a warring enemy and who is therefore not killed after apostasy. As for the apostate man, he is to lose all his property, as was already mentioned.”

        So Abu Hanifa too suggested that an apostate be kept under probation ..if he reconverts to Islam ..well and good ..if not KIll him .For women the ruling is confinement till death..again he is absolutely clear – KILL THE APOSTATE

        Third, the ahadith about the death penalty are called into serious question by other ahadith that show that the Holy Prophet did not consider such a penalty for apostasy.

        Kindly quote such ahadits please.

        Fourth, and most importantly, and most importantly, the death penalty for apostasy does not fit with the Qur`anic perspective, which rejects fitnah (persecution on religious grounds), rejects compulsion in religion, mentions apostasy many times but never mentions any legal penalty for it, and in fact permits less than the death penalty even when the crime of apostasy is accompanied by other crimes..

        Not once but at many places Quran tells how to deal with apostates.

        Quran 3:56
        As for the disbelievers, I will chastise them with a terrible chastisement in this world, through being killed, taken captive and made to pay the jizya, and the Hereafter, in the Fire; they shall have no helpers, none to protect them from it.

        Quran 88:23:24
        source: http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=24&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
        But he who turns away, [he who] rejects faith, and disbelieves, in the Qur’ān, God will chastise him with the greater chastisement, the chastisement of the Hereafter, the lesser chastisement being that of this world, that of being killed or taken captive.

        [[[[ here’s another one
        Quran 4:89
        They long, they wish, that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, so then you, and they, would be equal, in unbelief; therefore do not take friends from among them, associating with them, even if they should [outwardly] manifest belief, until they emigrate in the way of God, a proper emigration that would confirm their belief; then, if they turn away, and remain upon their ways, take them, as captives, and slay them wherever you find them; and do not take any of them as a patron, to associate with, or as a helper, to assist you against your enemy.]]]

        also a subtle you miss is that while not all kuffars are apostates, all apostates are definitely kuffar..and Quran’s ruling aginst kuffars apply to them on top of the special provoisions shared above

        There’s evidential support of barbaric subhuman practice of killing of apostates as prescribed by Quran and Hadits and as practiced by Islamic Communities since the last 1400 years

        So My friend, if there is any rationality and humanity left in any person he would definitely discard a subhuman doctrine that stifles the freedom of religion and goes to the extent of killing someone who exercises such freedom.

        Dhanyawad

  47. @All:

    Well, after that thorough dissection, I doubt if AHMAD will resurface. If he is intellectually honest, he will begin to question the Quran/Hadiths and reject them as something that has no place in the 21st century. Hopefully, he will then act as a deconverter within his circle of family/relatives/associates. The future is not all that bleak, I guess. 😉

  48. @Ahmad

    Thank you brother for very clearly stating that apostasy is not punishable as per Islam.

    Would you then agree that:
    1. All the scholars of Islam who justify death sentence as punishment to apostasy are anti-Islamic? Fpr example Maududi, Zakir Naik?

    2. All countries that justify death sentence or any punishment for that matter for apostasy are anti-Islamic. For example Saudi Arabia, Algeria?

    3. Would you condemn all those translations of Hadiths published by Islamic publishing houses, those who published them and those who promote them as anti-Islamic that justifies death sentence for apostasy.

    Refer Bukhari:
    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271:
    Narrated Abu Musa:

    A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu’adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu’adh asked, “What is wrong with this (man)?” Abu Musa replied, “He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism.” Mu’adh said, “I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
    Narrated Abu Burda:

    Abu Musa said, “I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash’ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah’s Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, ‘O Abu Musa (O ‘Abdullah bin Qais!).’ I said, ‘By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.’ As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, ‘We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or ‘Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'” The Prophet then sent Mu’adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu’adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, “I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, “Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, ‘I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'”

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

    Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
    Narrated Ikrima:

    Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”

    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
    Narrated ‘Abdullah:

    Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

    This one is from Muhsin Khan promoted by all leading Islamic websites and published by all leading Islamic publishers and recommended by all leading preachers.

    Would you issue a blanket statement that all these publishers, preachers and websites are anti-Islamic? And also announce that you would write articles condemning those preachers and countries – like Zakir Naik, Saudi Arabia – in same manner as you write against Agniveer? Also ensure that you do not directly or indirectly support or promote these believers in punishment for apostasy?

    Lets be totally clear.
    Raja

    Kindly be clear on this.

  49. @AHMAD:

    But if one leaves a religion without causing harm to others or engages in treason, then there is no punishment.

    (I am lying back and enjoying the vigorous mental gymnastics you are engaging in in order to answer a simple question. Why do you feel the need to make analogies which I am going to pick on below? Why dont you simply answer – There is NO PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY IN ISLAM.)

    You chose to make an analogy about someone being treasonous to one’s country. Usually, this involves giving out state secrets, cooperating with the enemy, etc. All of these are provable/falsifiable.

    Please explain in the context of unprovable belief systems what would constitute treason? I want some examples.

  50. Excellent Article.

    I just have to tell everyone one thing, let us look at all religions by the belief component itself:

    As a Vedic follower, I do not have to believe in the Vedas. I can openly stand on the highest peak of a mountain and say I do not believe in Vedas, so what? Now other true Vedic followers will look at me and tell me that as per Vedas, I am far more Vedic by not believing in Vedas as opposed to those who follow them blindly. Hence, I will get appeciation for listening to my inner self.

    Now, if I am a muslim, and I stand up tall and declare that I do not believe in the Quran, I will get curses, I will be condemned, I will be cursed to hell, I will have the word kafir written beside, I will receive life threats, and possibly, if this were an islamic, I may be executed.

    The same is the case if I refuse to believe in the Bible, I will see christians cursing me to hell.

    Now, you people decide, which religion is really rational and from Ishwar???

    Many so called religions are cults in the name of humanity religions, so we support in exposing cults. This is the main reason, we cannot respect every religion.

    For example, based on the islam of Zakir Naik, who openly calls for execution for people who leave islam and propagate other religions, how can any person with rational thinking respect that????

    If we have to respect the fanatic version of islam as per Naik, we should also show respect to terrorists who kill millions of innocent people, I hope all of you get my point here.

    Only morality and humanity deserves to be respected, not evil and terrorism.

  51. @ Ahmed

    Dear Ahamed I woulk like to know why do have so much hate for agniveer although there is no hate against any in Agniveer article. If agniveer does not agree with thought of that Mohamad had ever married with child girl or raped of his daughter in law or married with the woman of his mother. Agniveer can not bear such stupid things against great Mohamad. that is why he is against falls teaching of Kuran, Hadis etc which talk nonsense about Mohamad Sahab. What you have problem in this.Agniveer oppose the bowing head before Kaba building or masjid made of stone because Mohamad sahab always believed god is formless, ominipresent, and omnipotent he need not any prophet , he is not limited to particular place like Kaba, he everywhere equally. Mohamad is roll model for agniveer. He is true follower of his teaching. You & Jakir Naik are kaffir who bow head before stone or consider allah only limited to Kaba not in my office or house. I am sure Kuran also written by kaffirs who order Muslim to do many rituals like Gol Chakar lagana. I am sure Jakir Naik paid worker of kaffirs.

    • Congrats Agniveer for a strong rasponse!
      As you,ve written
      ” So there actually exists no ‘other religion’ for us. And there exists no specific ‘my religion’ to preach! What is commonly called religion is simply a set of specific assumptions believed as given by a group of people regardless of its actual veracity”.
      This is the most confusing concept,The meaning of “Religion” and “Majhab” is “Mat” or “Sampradaya” in Hindi.While the term Dharma has no meaning in any other language.Any man made religious beliefs and coustoms are termed as Sampradaya or Religion but Dharma stands for the way of living on the planet given by God himself.
      I request the Agniveer team to put some light on this concept.

      • Brother, You have rightly pointed out. Often because of English being a very crude language to express such subtle concepts, we are forced to be bit confusing.

        Religion technically comes from Re+Legion meaning joining again. So conceptually the word is ok. But what we see as religion – Hindu, Muslim, Christian etc – are cults or groups or Sampradaya believing in certain assumptions specific to group.

        Dharma means natural property. For example, dharma of fire is to burn, dharma of water is to wet, dharma of solid is to retain shape, dharma of gas is to expand to available shape.

        Similarly Dharma for humans are those basic traits that are natural to us. Often due to social conditioning, misdirected use of intellect and other reasons, humans deviate from their natural properties and turn artificial. This causes miseries and troubles. If you feed lion with grass and cow with meat, they would turn ill because this is not natural for them. Same goes for humans.

        Thus Vedas explain the natural traits and how to go about acquiring them.

        The most fundamental trait is ” Accept truth and reject falsehood”. This can be further broken to “Acquiring knowledge and removing ignorance”, “Putting efforts and performing actions” etc. And Rishis summarize into more practical form of 10 traits of Dharma – Patience, Forgiveness, Self control, Non-stealing, Purity, Control of senses, Enhancing Intellect, Increasing Knowledge, Truthfulness, Non-Anger.

        Based on this entire platform of Dharma can be built. This is timeless, beyond geography and same for all human beings. As you dwell deeper, you can discover more practical applications of these to help us decide our Dharma/ natural traits in more tricky situations and various situations of life. This becomes the Universal Religion or Vedic Dharma.

        It is Vedic because Vedic means derived/ directed towards knowledge. Further, Vedas provide ultimate benchmarks of this elated knowledge. Now even if someone does not understand the second statement – on Vedas due to lack of study of Vedas- no worries. So far as first statement is adhered to, second one is a logical next step and would come naturally.

        So vedic Dharma is the only universal ‘re-legion’ for all human beings regardless of what else they want to believe in. Only this knowledge-driven Dharma aligns them to their natural self.

        Admin

  52. Agniveer Ji

    sorry , in all these digressions forgot to congratulate you on this much required reiteration of what Agniveer stands for

    Thank you!

  53. @ Ahmed

    Ahmed I think you are foolish person wasting his time & others. Clerical error happens always I also write Agneevir instead of Agniveer many times & you have also done many grammatical or clerical error in your comments.So, read all article very carefully think deeply & logically, rationally, consider yourself first of all as a human being not Hindu, Muslim.

  54. @ Agniveer

    Ohk thanx for atlest telling what is exact refrence ….I am here just poiting you your lies you as you claim that there is not a single point in your site which is misquotation or mistranslation ..so i will tell in your all articles where you have misquoted the things…after that i will try to establish what exactly mean by that…
    in your 10 th point you have just said shuraa so i thnk it to be chapter 26 thnx for your clarification…

    @ Amitesh
    I thnk its better to ignore you as your comment compeled me to do so…

    • @ Ahmed

      Agniveer ji has already told you that you have to point out if there is any hate on this website…

      and not the errors.. errors are always made by humans….like ur quran is full of errors…

      so kindly point out things which are asked for and be in context to article…

    • Brother Ahmad

      while your secretarial help is highly appreciated, be cautious not to brand a typographical error as a lie.The more you try to do so , the more you are probed otherwise.

      The fact is that the stated content exists in the Quran and that should be the focus of inquiry.

      PS: How is your rebuttal shaping up ? kindly let me know when you are done ..i have some interesting insights to share 🙂

      • Namaste Ahmad

        Unfortunately the Islamic scientist who wrote this article on moon light is not aware of the simple phenomenon of reflection 🙁

        For the reflection to happen-

        1. something (called reflector) other than the source is required
        2. In the lamp, its not REFLECTED light but TRANSMITTED light which illuminates the surroundings 🙂

        And on Allah to be spiritual reflected light, the question of Brother Indian Agnostic still stands, whose spiritual light, Allah is reflecting ? 🙂 Or who is the source of this spiritual light of which Allah is reflection? Just saying, his own, contradicts with the terminology of reflection as per science.

        Just remember, the source is called emitter, not reflector 😉

      • Brother Ahmad

        Just read your article, you have probably written it in a hurry.

        1.As Brother Vajra pointed out , Dr. Naiks “reflector lamp” analogy is an apology ..and very unscientific to say the least.

        2. You start you response by admitting that many civilizations knew that moon reflects sunlight thousands of years before Quran came into existence.This itself shows that the Quran at best (if at all), repeats but does not reveal a scientific fact.In a way you lose your case of “miraculous scientific revelation” on this point alone

        3. You attempt to discard the ancient civilizations discoveries on the the ground that these were not unanimously accepted everywhere on the earth , The works of these great astronomers were translated into many languages (including arabic) through which the Arabs learned about science.as far as “unanimous acceptance” is concerned, it can never be used as a yardstick ..is the quran unanimously accepted? there is a flat earth society that does not believe that earth is spherical..in 1990s the top most mufti of Islam Ibn Baaz declared the earth is fixed and does not rotate as the Quran does not allow the earth to rotate! … science cannot wait for eternity my friend..your excuse is unscientific and illogical 🙁

        4.then you bring so many scholars opinions 1) first on all those who say Nur= Reflected light and then another set of scholars who say 2)Nur =Metaphor reflected light ..all your work is acting against yourself

        I would request you that when you create a detailed response, please try to address these quick points that come to mind .

        best of luck !

      • 1. something (called reflector) other than the source is required
        2. In the lamp, its not REFLECTED light but TRANSMITTED light which illuminates the surroundings >
        ******
        I think my brother has never seen a halogen lamp with a reflector behind it, If really you have not seen then just go and have a look at a torch which has a reflector behind it. The light rays emerging from the bulb is its own light while because the bulb is at the focus of reflector the rays after reflection from the concave reflector emerge parallel to each other i.e. reflected light or noor or muneer..******

        ****** already explained in the rebuttal*****

        ******1- Refuted above
        2- Yes , we agree that these theories were put forward by astronomers before The revelation of The Noble Qur’an but the point to be noted is that these all things were proved by observations through telescopes and other instruments which were not available in Arabia 1400 years ago. Secondly , it is a fact that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered so there is no point of him getting this knowledge from some external source and it would be an assumption to say that the idea of moon’s light being reflected light was prevalent all over the globe specially in Arabia.
        3- It’s just an assumption that the works of scientists were translated into Arabic and transferred from one place to other before 1400 years ago.
        4- I think you failed to read it properly , The word Noor literally means a reflection of light but when it is used for Allah it’s a metaphor.******

      • Brother Ahmad

        1. Why did you jump to the halogen lamp Brother when we were talking about the lamp of Quran [24:35] which you used in your article? It has nothing to do with halogen lamp or torch but it is something surrounded by glass, just look

        “Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the LAMP IS WITHIN GLASS, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire.”

        Here I would have loved to ask you that actually who is the similitude of Allah of the above- Niche with lamp or lamp surrounded with glass or pearly star lit or olive oil or olive tree..? But it being out of topic can be dealt separately if you like.

        So in the verse, we see lamp surrounded with glass! And you might be knowing that glass has to be TRANSMITTER of the light and not the REFLECTOR if it has to illuminate the surroundings. Glass can be made reflector only by painting it from outside but then the lamp will not give any light outside and all will be in darkness 🙁

        Hope you will go with latter if you want light 😉

        2 and 3. I would love to see Brother Indian Agnostic replying these

        4- If Noor means reflected light, why moon is called Noor? Moon is reflector and not reflection! Reflector is different from what he reflects 😉 Same applies for Allah! If He his reflector, He is different from the light. If He Himself is reflected light, who is the emitter of light?

        I would like to thank you Brother Ahmad for writing me your Brother. Its after long time someone from your team has done that. I look forward for the long lasting brotherhood!

        Best Regards

      • @Vajra

        I told about halogen lamp because you asked about something which gives own light and reflects it too. (Own light from the bulb and reflected from the reflector)
        I think you still need to understand the meaning of spiritual light, you are again and again mistaking it as a physical light. Lets what the famous Scholar Ibn Kathir (May Allah be pleased with him) has to say about this “Spiritual Light” :
        `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said:
        (Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth.) means, the Guide of the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth. Ibn Jurayj said: “Mujahid and Ibn `Abbas said concerning the Ayah:
        (Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth.) He is controlling their affairs and their stars and sun and moon.”
        – Tafsir Ibn Kathir
        Lets see about the parable (It does not say it is Allah’s parable, it is the parable of his LIGHT i.e. guidance) :
        (The parable of His Light) There are two views concerning the meaning of the pronoun (His). The first is that it refers to Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, meaning that the parable of His guidance in the heart of the believer is
        (as a niche) This was the view of Ibn `Abbas. The second view is that the pronoun refers to the believer, which is indicated by the context of the words and implies that the parable of the light in the heart of the believer is as a niche. So the heart of the believer and what he is naturally inclined to of guidance and what he learns of the Qur’an which is in accordance with his natural inclinations are, as Allah says:
        (Can they who rely on a clear proof from their Lord, and whom a witness from Him recites it (can they be equal with the disbelievers)) ﴿11:17﴾. The heart of the believer in its purity and clarity is likened to a lamp in transparent and jewel-like glass, and the Qur’an and Shari`ah by which it is guided are likened to good, pure, shining oil in which there is no impurity or deviation.
        – Tafsir Ibn Kathir

        Allah says in The Noble Qur’an :
        It is He who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light and determined for it phases – that you may know the number of years and account [of time]. Allah has not created this except in truth. He details the signs for a people who know
        [10:5]
        So, is there any problem in this The moon is “a derived light” means that it gives derived light. Regarding the light of Allah I explained above.

        >>I would like to thank you Brother Ahmad for writing me your Brother. Its after long time someone from your team has done that. I look forward for the long lasting brotherhood!>>

        No need of thnx i always consider it to be so its you people who spit venom ans call us terrorist etc…

      • Brother Ahmad

        I am an apostate. I was a Muslim and now have converted to Vedic Dharm. Now in the light of Sharia, what do you, Brother Mushafiq, Brother Faizan, Zakir Naik etc think about me? Do I have right to live anymore or am I wazib ul katl?

        Your reply will settle the debate as well as decide who spews venom on whom. Also your reply will decide whether I will continue to discuss with you on reflection and refraction or call you what you dont like to listen

        thanks

      • @ Vajra
        Well its your people old trick to jump from one point to another anyways here is my rply

        Indeed the Qur’an specifies no worldly punishment for apostasy. Hadith refers to only those cases that involved political treason, not apostasy. Also, these hadiths are not mutawatir and thus do not yield certainty of knowledge. In addition, there is no ijma or consensus on this.

        Suppose one becomes an expatriate and fights against the U.S, (for example). This person would be tried and convicted of treason and usually killed. But if one leaves a religion without causing harm to others or engages in treason, then there is no punishment. The Qur’an is blatant about the fact that there is no compulsion in religion. Some people at the time of the Prophet would convert in the morning and leave Islam at night. The Prophet then announced that those joining in Islam in good faith are welcome, but those who join only to then leave and discredit Islam and then encourage others to fight Islam, that is considered treason and treated as a crime in the same way as U.S. law.

        ———————————
        There is no single verse in the Qur’an which prescribes an earthly punishment for apostasy.
        ———————————

        The silence of the Qur’an on any prescribed mandatory capital for apostasy is quite revealing. More revealing is the fact that there is overwhelming evidence in the Qur’an of freedom of conscious, belief, and worship. The following verses gives an example of this:

        [And say [O Muhammad]: ‘The truth [has now come] you’re your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

        [There shall be no coercion in matters of faith.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

        [And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; your task is only to exhort. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

        ———————————
        It is abundantly clear that there is no conclusive evidence in the Qur’an to sustain the claim that the apostate should be killed.
        ———————————
        Conclusion

        ———————————
        There is no firm ground for the claim that apostasy is in itself a mandatory fixed punishment (hadd), namely capital punishment.
        ———————————

        The preponderance of evidence from both the Qur’an and Sunnah indicates that there is no firm ground for the claim that apostasy is in itself a mandatory fixed punishment (hadd), namely capital punishment.

      • Brother Ahmad

        It’s good that you don”t believe in killing of apostates but the only way you can do it is by rejecting Hadits [ i see you are showing signs of becoming a Quran Alone muslim – a welcome step indeed 🙂 ]

        But the Hadits clearly state that anybody who leaves Islam must be killed ..period

        Source : Sahih Bukhari ( http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/084.sbt.html#009.084.057 )

        Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
        Narrated ‘Ikrima:
        Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

        Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
        Narrated Abu Burda:
        Abu Musa said, “I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash’ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah’s Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, ‘O Abu Musa (O ‘Abdullah bin Qais!).’ I said, ‘By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.’ As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, ‘We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or ‘Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'” The Prophet then sent Mu’adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu’adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, “I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, “Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, ‘I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'”

        Dhanyawad

      • @ Vajra: Ahmad is partly right. When the purpose suits THEM, apostates will not be killed. Please recall the team of French commandos that entered Mecca during the siege of the grand mosque at Mecca during the haj of 1979. While terrorists inside the mosque were slaughtering innocent pilgrims and the Saudi forces were being kept at bay, by sniper fire from the minarets, the French commados were asked to recite the shahabda before being deployed to assist the bleeding Saudi forces. Obviously,after the operations, the French commados gave two hoots about Lahillaha illaha…and they went home. So here is an example of when apostacy is not punished in Islam,provided, it suits THEM
        🙂

      • Namaste Brother Ahmad

        Thank you very much for clarifying your stand on apostasy and accepting that this is anti Islamic. Now I would quickly summarize the main concerns of everyone here (including Agniveer, Indian Agnostic, Rushmore, KalBhairav, Vik, Raja and of course me 🙂 )

        So when you have stated clearly that death penalty for apostates is ANTI ISLAMIC and implementing it or supporting it goes against the spirit of holy Quran which is “there is no compulsion in religion”, what do you have to say about Zakir Naik who wants any apostate preaching his new religion to be killed?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0

        Do you condemn Zakir Naik for such intolerant views which are anti Islamic as you acknowledged just now?

        Do you agree that you will write rebuttals to Zakir Naik’s anti Islamic views just like you write against Agniveer?

        Dont you think that Zakir Naik is a bigger threat to Islam than Agniveer since Zakir’s idea is to take lives whereas Agniveer only encourages people for intellectual discussions, no threats?

        Would you and your team (Mushafiq and others) announce dissociation (both formal and informal) from Zakir Naik on this?

        Do you reject the Sahih Hadith given by Brothers Indian Agnostic and Raja which sanction death penalty for apostasy?

        waiting eagerly for your response

        Your Brother

      • Brother Rushmore

        The incident you shared is really interesting and informative. I wonder when Allah has made one Momin equal to 10 Kafirs or even more in power, why were the 10 times weaker Kafir commandos requested to save house of Allah 🙁

        And more interesting is the fact that the Kafir commandos were requested by Allah’s chosen people- Saudis to save the house of that Allah who is the enemy of Kafirs 🙁

        So the enemies of Allah saved house of Allah! Would like to ask my Muslim friends here, whether those commandos will go to heaven for this deed or they will burn in hell forever for the greatest sin in the world- Shirk?

      • Namaste Brothers Ahmad

        in addition to what brother has replied, here are my two cents:

        1. you say : I think my brother has never seen a halogen lamp with a reflector behind it, If really you have not seen then just go and have a look at a torch which has a reflector behind it.

        As brither Vajra pointed out your anlogy does not hold in the light of the verse..where there’s glass and no reflector 🙁

        [[ In a lighter vein , even if i go by your anology…the “reflector” and the “lamp” are two distinct entities….so you mean to say we can associate a partner:”reflector” with lamp: “Allah” ???

        If your argument is respected, tauheed goes off the window 🙁 ]]

        2. it is a fact that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered

        The prophet was unlettered but not deaf and dumb

        The Greek, Babylonian influence on Arabia was immense during the lifetime of the prophet. But this is besides the point .. as Nur does not mean reflected light as i will show below

        3.Please read how Arabs learned astronomy, algebra and numerals from the Indians and Greeks..It’s so much a fact now that the numeric system is renamed hindu-arabic numerals 🙂

        4. On top of brother Vajra’s logical challenge , add one factual challenge from my side

        Your conclusion that noor literally means “reflected light” will put you in a catch 22 situation ..and Quran will be the definite loser either ways.Let me show you how

        .Lets look at these two verses of Quran where “noor” is used.

        Quran 13:16
        Releveant Transliteration: “qul hal yastawee al-aAAma waalbaseeru am hal tastawee alththulumatu waalnnooru
        Relevant Translation : “Say: Is the blind man equal to the seer, or is darkness equal to light?”

        Quran 14:05
        Releveant Transliteration: “akhrij qawmaka mina alzulumati ila alnnoori
        Relevant Translation : Bring thy people forth from darkness unto light

        Now if i take your word , it proves that Allah guides people towards reflected light!!! the author of the Quran is fooling people 🙁

        To avoid the greater blunder above, it would be wise for you to accept that noor does not literally mean “reflected light” ..in which case the Science in Quran goes for a toss.

        so what would you have ..science in Quran minus guidance or guidance in quran minus science? you decide ! 🙂

        with you always in search of truth

      • @ indian agnostic brother

        I told about halogen lamp because you asked about something which gives own light and reflects it too. (Own light from the bulb and reflected from the reflector)
        Moreover it is perfect in accordance with verse :
        The parable of His light is, as it were, that of a niche containing a lamp; the lamp is [enclosed] in glass, the glass [shining] like a radiant star: [a lamp] lit from a blessed tree – an olive-tree that is neither of the east nor of the west the oil whereof [is so bright that it] would well-nigh give light [of itself] even though fire had not touched it: light upon light! God guides unto His light him that wills [to be guided]; and [to this end] God propounds parables unto men, since God [alone] has full knowledge of all things. [24:35]
        Notice the verse says : [a lamp] lit from a blessed tree and the glass is shining like a radiant star So what is the problem here , Lamp is compared to modern day bulb in the torch and the glass is reflector.
        I say again , It is the parable of the light/guidance of Allah NOT of Allah himself.

        Your assumptions carry no weight you have to show proof that such knowledge was available to Arabs at that time.
        ♥.Please read how Arabs learned astronomy, algebra and numerals from the Indians and Greeks..It’s so much a fact now that the numeric system is renamed hindu-arabic numerals >
        This you are talking long after The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , Read what Wikipedia says about this :
        The Hindu–Arabic numeral system[1] or Hindu numeral system[2] is a positional decimal numeral system developed in the 9th century by Arab mathematicians, adopted by Muslim/Arab (Al-Khwarizmi’s circa 825 book On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals) and Arabic mathematicians (Al-Kindi’s circa 830 volumes On the Use of the Indian Numerals), and spread to the western world by the High Middle Ages.
        Despite the numeral system being described as the “Hindu–Arabic numeral system”, the system was not jointly developed by Hindus (inhabitants of India) and Arabs. It had been developed by Indian mathematicians and in use extensively throughout India, before being adopted by the Persian mathematicians in India and passed on to the Arabs further west. The numeral system was transmitted to Europe in the Middle Ages. The use of Arabic numerals spread around the world through European trade, books and colonialism. Today they are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system
        So it clearly shows that it was done in 9th century.

        Again the Darkness to light here means from darkness to guidance of Allah. If Allah takes people from Darkness(Ignorance) to Light (Knowledge) then its obvious that the knowledge of human being is just a reflection of The knowledge of Allah.
        Alhamdulillah the Noble Qur’an has scientific , mathematical and literary miracles in it as Allah says in the Noble Qur’an:
        We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their ownselves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things? [Al-Qur’an 41:53]
        And say, “Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart.” [Al-Qur’an 17:81]

      • هُوَ الَّذِي جَعَلَالشَّمْسَ ضِيَاءً وَالْقَمَرَنُورًا

        It is He [Allah] who made the sun a shining light and the moon aNoora – derived light (from the Sun)…

        [Yusuf 10:5]
        We find in Tafsir (interpretation of) Ibn Kathir, a prominent and leading Muslim scholar in the 13th century [800 years ago!], the following commentary about the Moon receiving light from the Sun:

        “The sun rises each day and sets at the end of the day, giving one kind of light all the time,but it moves, rising and setting at different points in the summer and winter, thus making the days and nights longer or shorter alternatively according to the season. Its authority is in the daytime, for it is the heavenly body that dominates the day. As for the moon, Allah has decreed that it should pass through different phases.

        At the beginning of the month, the moon appears small when it rises. It gives off little light, then on the second night its light increases and it rises to a higher position, and the higher it rises the more light it gives — even though it is reflected from the sun — until it becomes full on the fourteenth night of the month.”

        (http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=36&tid=43568 – Tafseer surah Yasin)

        “He created the night with its darkness and the day with its light, and they alternate without ceasing. And He created the sun with its shining light, and the moon with its reflected light. and He allotted their stages and gave them separate orbits in the heavens.”

        Definitions’ of the word: Noor:

        1 – نور (noor): بيّن(bayyan) reveal, reflect.

        2 – إستنار به (istanaara bihi): إستمدّ شعاعة (istamadda shu’aaa’uh) was supplied by its light.

        3 -انار المكان (anaara al-makaan): وضعفيهالنور(wada’aa feehi al-noor) Put light into it, or reflected light off of it.

        4 -نوّرتِ الشجرو انارت ايضاً(nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan): اخرجت نورها(akhrajat nooraha)The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it showed the light off of itself. However, plants, as we know, are not a source of light.

        5 – انار النبت (anaara al-nabtu): ظهر و حسن (tha-hara wa hasan) the plant was revealed well from light.

        6 – نور(noor): be revealed, to be lighted, to receive light.

        Definitions of the word ‘Noor’ According to;

        1. Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 3, Pages 805, 808.

        2. Al-Muheet dictionary [2], Page 454.

        3. Al-Muajam Al-Waseet dictionary [3], Page 962.

        4. Al-Mawrid dictionary Arabic-English section [4], Page 1196.

        5. Arabic-English dictionary the Hans Wehr dictionary [6], Page 1008, 1009.

        So clearly, when Allah Almighty Said that the Sun is ضياء(diyaa’a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا(Noora), then clearly the moon:

        1- Is reflecting to light, because it isإستمدّ شعاعة (was supplied by light), as this is the meaning of إستنار, which is derived from the root word نور noor.

        2- Is reflecting to light, because it is ظهر و حسن (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of انار, as in انار النبت.

        3- Is reflecting to light, becauseit receives light from the sun and it is lighted and revealed by it.

        Definition of “Diyaa’a” [ ضياء] according to Classical Dictionaries:

        The Source of Light.

        1 – ضياء(diyaa’a): الضوء,ما اضاء لك (al-dawa’, ma adaa’a laka) the light, and what it originated from light to you.

        2 – The following poem proves that ضياء(diyaa’a) refers to the original light:

        اضاءَتْ لنا النارُ وجهاً اغرَّ,مُلتبِساً,بالفُؤادِ,إلتِباسا The fire has originated (اضاءَتْ is derived from ضياء)for us the light of a mighty glow, that will always be liked by the heart (or something like that).

        Notice here that the fire is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn’t used.

        3 – إستضاء(istadaa’):إستمدّ نورهُ (istamadda noorahu) the original light stretched its NOOR [light] forth.

        4 – تضوَّأ(tadawwa’a): قام فى ظلمةٍ ليرىبِضَوْءِ النار اهلها he got up during the darkness of the night to see from the light of the fire, the people in the place.

        *

        (Notice again how the fire in this sentence is the originator and the source of the light. And notice how NOOR or a derivative of it wasn’t used.)

        5 – ضوء(dawa’): to gleam, radiate, to illumine, illuminate, to shed light, cast light.

        If we see surah Noor 24:35, this word is also used:

        35الله نور السماوات والارض مثل نوره كمشكاة فيها مصباح المصباح في زجاجة الزجاجة كانها كوكب دري يوقد من شجرة مباركة زيتونة لاشرقية ولاغربية يكاد زيتها يضيئ ولو لم تمسسه نار نور على نور يهدي الله لنوره من يشاء ويضرب الله الامثال للناس والله بكل شئ عليم

        Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth. An example of its brilliance: there is a lamp in a luminous niche. The lamp is in a glass which itself gleams like a radiant star. It is lit by the oil of the blessed tree _ neither from the West nor the East. The oil of the lamp is ready to glow by itself[yaDeey’u] even without being kindled.The bright luminous light is atop another brilliant light. Allah guides towards this light whomever He wants and Allah quotes this parable for the people. Allah is knowledgeable of all things!

        Meaning: The oil is about to يضيئ(yudee’o) [GLOW]without being kindled by fire. Notice how the OIL, in the Parable, is the SOURCE OF LIGHT, and the Arabic word yudee’o يضيئis derived from the root words ضياء (diyaa’a) and ضوء (dawa’).

      • Namaste Brother Ahmad

        I told about halogen lamp because you asked about something which gives own light and reflects it too

        And i told you that the reflector and the bulb are two completely different entities with different attributes ..one is the source of light the other does not let any light pass through it ..both have antithetical behaviors

        Lamp is compared to modern day bulb in the torch and the glass is reflector.

        as explained , your example would apply only if you use “lamp shade” and not “transparent glass” for reflection to occur (glass directs light and does not reflect it scientifically speaking ..except in a samll way where total internal reflection happens[but in that case also the light does not reach the subject :(] )

        You quoted the wikipedia article ..which also mentions this fact
        It had been developed by Indian mathematicians and in use extensively throughout India, before being adopted by the Persian mathematicians in India and passed on to the Arabs further west.

        If you study the life of the prophet ..you would know that he was in contact with many Syrians and Persians[who were good at sciences] ..in fact he was seen often talking with a Christian blacksmith and people thought he is learning the Quran from from him.So much so that Allah had to specifically reveal a verse denying this claim.Also, The Christians and Jews used to teach the torah and gospel to the muslims in the prophets lifetime.He himself was inspired by Bahira a syrian

        I mention all these facts in support of my argument that the Prophet was unlettered but he was not deaf and dumb and neither was he immune from alien civilization inputs

        But don’t confuse this argument with the case at hand..the case is to establish if indeed noor = “reflected light” literally

        If Allah takes people from Darkness(Ignorance) to Light (Knowledge) then its obvious that the knowledge of human being is just a reflection of The knowledge of Allah.

        Nice try! You ignored the second verse completely my friend …that is the one you need to to resolve.

        Here it is again ..

        Quran 13:16
        “qul hal yastawee al-aAAma waalbaseeru am hal tastawee alththulumatu waalnnooru
        Relevant Translation : “Say:Is the blind man equal to the seer, or is darkness equal to light?

        There’s no metaphor here my friend..The author of the Quran is establishing clear antonyms here ..not just one but two … he compares a blind man to a seeing man as he compares darkness against light.

        This verse unambiguously establishes the meaning of noor ..which is an antonym of “drankness” ..which the author of the quran states as noor ..which can only mean “light” and not reflected light

        even fifth graders wont make that mistake sir to say that the antonym of darkness is “reflected light” ..then why do you?

        Alhamdulillah the Noble Qur’an has scientific , mathematical and literary miracles in it as Allah says in the Noble Qur’an:

        As our artcile demonstrates..At least Dr. Naiks claims of science in the Quran have been proven wrong and your defense of “noor” = “reflected light” has been proven wrong conclusively by Quran(13:16) itself 🙁

        please let me know your concurrence on the same

        Dhanyawad

      • @ Indian Agnostic

        I really love to read ur responses..

        I really believe that u have complete knowledge of quran and vedas and u never speak without proof…

        Bohot bohot Dhanyawad aapka…

        HARI Om…

      • Namaste Brother Sanatanakki

        I too love his responses because I learn a lot from those.

        I am proud to be Shaagird (pupil) of Ustaads (Gurus) like Indian Agnostic and Agniveer 🙂

        Hope some day could offer my Dakshina to them 🙂

        And I feel glad to see Brothers like KalBhairav, Apolloreach, and Rushmore on the site whose marvelous comments make me feel always that I have more to learn and less to preach 🙂

      • Dear Brother Sanatanaakki

        The only compliment that i can take with folded hands is that i don’t discuss without proofs.

        In the presence of brothers like Kalbhairav, Apolloreach ,Arya Musafir ,Rushmore, Vajra,Vik ,Roger, SDC, Raj.HYD etc. and in the light of truth i must surrender that i don’t deserve the magnanimously generous larger part of that compliment

        At Agniveer i have more to learn than to share ..thanks a ton for appreciating whatever little i share

        Your Brother

    • @AHMAD:

      You and Tree Squirrel ran away from the discussion here. In the spirit of the topic underlying this thread, I will not further critically analyze your posts here. I hope you have the large heart to appreciate the message of Agniveer’s post here and congratulate it.

      I hope to hear back from you on the other thread.

      • We want a healthy discussion and let truth prevail so dnt be biased in your approach there is not a single point in this website or satyartha prakash or anyother other aryasamj books which can be said to be having a strong point all have misquotation ,out of context,lies ……..at least present truth so that ppl can easily judge and have friendly discussion.

        We appreciate the stand of agniveer but we strongly condemn his biasdness,lies

        In that article you were just calling muslims terrorist.was going out the context of the article as well as the comments posted by me instead of that you were jumping from one point to another ,After doing all these tactics you still want that i rply to your musings.

      • @AHMAD:

        It is very simple for Islam to reclaim the label – religion of peace.

        (a)Abolish death penalty for apostasy.
        (b)Allow OTHER religions to flourish in Muslim-majority land with no reprisals.

        All other religions/societies allow this. What makes Islam so special that these basic human ideals cannot be allowed?

        Until then, sorry to state, Islam is NOT a religion of peace. What would you call folks who adhere to a religion that is NOT a religion of peace.

      • @ Ahmed

        Dear Ahamed I would like to know why do have so much hate for agniveer although there is no hate against any in Agniveer article. If agniveer does not agree with thought of that Mohamad had ever married with child girl or raped of his daughter in law or married with the woman of his mother. Agniveer can not bear such stupid things against great Mohamad. that is why he is against false teaching of Kuran, Hadis etc which talk nonsense about Mohamad Sahab. What you have problem in this.Agniveer oppose the bowing head before Kaba building or masjid made of stone because Mohamad sahab always believed god is formless, ominipresent, and omnipotent he need not any prophet , he is not limited to particular place like Kaba, he everywhere equally. Mohamad is roll model for agniveer. He is true follower of his teaching. You & Jakir Naik are kaffir who bow head before stone or consider allah only limited to Kaba not in my office or house. I am sure Kuran also written by kaffirs who order Muslim to do many rituals like Gol Chakar lagana. I am sure Jakir Naik paid worker of kaffirs.

    • What a BIG mistake I did when I revealed the kkkoran to this illiterate son of bastard, mohammed bin abdullah . I should have known better than to reveal anything to an illiterate and his even more illiterate followers.

      Now I need to reveal another holy book to someone more educated. :))

  55. Allah Shapeless Or Limited
    Agniveer states
    10. Surate Shura 51 states that it is impossible for humans except through angels, through curtains and symbols that Allah talks to them.
    Now if Allah is within all humans, there should be a mechanism by which Allah talks to them. Why would omnipresent Allah use curtain, symbol or angels

    Response
    This is the ayah
    إِنَّا نَطْمَعُ أَن يَغْفِرَ لَنَا رَبُّنَا خَطَٰيَٰنَآ أَن كُنَّآ أَوَّلَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ﴿١٥﴾

    [026:051] “Verily! We really hope that our Lord will forgive us our sins, as we are the first of the believers (in Moosa (Moses) and in the Monotheism which he has brought from Allah).”(Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan)

    Abdullah Yusuf Ali
     26:51. ”Only, our desire is that our Lord will forgive us our faults, that we may become foremost among the believers!”[3144]

    Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall
     26:51. Lo! we ardently hope that our Lord will forgive us our sins because we are the first of the believers.

    Shakir
     26:51. Surely we hope that our Lord will forgive us our wrongs because we are the first of the believers.

    Now one can see what the author is saying and what the ayah actually is. Where does this ayah talk about Allah who is with in humans or talks to humans through curtains or angels?? I don’t know from where he is getting this material. This ayah doesn’t say a word about curtain or angels.

    • Dear Brother,

      This is not the right post to point editorial errors, if any, in Agniveer articles. You can use the comment sections in respective articles for this. Or start a new topic in forum. In this post, kindly provide references of those locations in site content that showcase hatred in any manner.

      Regards
      Admin

    • Further, your reference is wrong. Refer Surat Ash-Shuraa 42.51 on http://www.quran.com or any other Islamic publication:

      Sahih International
      And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise.

      Muhsin Khan
      It is not given to any human being that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by Inspiration, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.

      Pickthall
      And it was not (vouchsafed) to any mortal that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by revelation or from behind a veil, or (that) He sendeth a messenger to reveal what He will by His leave. Lo! He is Exalted, Wise.

      Yusuf Ali
      It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah’s permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.

      Dr. Ghali
      And in no way is it feasible for a mortal that Allah should speak to Him, except by revelation or from beyond a curtain, or that He should send a Messenger; then He reveals whatever He decides, by His permission. Surely He is Ever-Exalted, Ever-Wise.

      • Lahaul-vila-quwat …. Mushfiq Sultan a.k.a Ahmad a.k.a Faizan, you are again caught with your Taqiya

  56. Lets us see what you utter here stands for truth or again its another bunch of your lies…….
    In your article Allah shapeless or limited…..your first point
    Agniveer states:
    1. Surate Yunis, Ayat 6 states that Allah created the sky and earth in 6 days and then settled at the top in his throne.

    Response:
    This is utter lie because this is what Allah says in SURAH YUNUS (not Yunis)
    [010:006] Verily, in the alternation of the night and the day and in all that Allah has created in the heavens and the earth are Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for those people who keep their duty to Allah, and fear Him much. (Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan)
    So, it is clearly seen that what the ayah says and what the author claimed about the ayah are two way different things?? I believe he just copied and pasted or he is willingly trying to deceive.

    After leting you people several times no change in it

    • Dear Brother,

      Thanks for pointing that out. It was a typographical error. The actual verse in Surate Yunis, Ayat 3 and not 6. In Hindi, 3 and 6 are mirror images (३, ६ ) causing the error.

      The difference in pronunciation may be because we were referring to a Hindi/ Urdu version which calls it सूरते युनिस.

      However we assume that you take this as an editing error but do not relate it to any feeling of hatred.

      Regards
      Admin

    • Namaste Brother Ahmad

      Thanks for pointing out the typo , but typo isn’t a lie .The Author of the Quran mentions at more places than one that the He created the heavens and earth in 6 days.

      Sample this one

      Quran 7:54
      ◤Inna rabbakumu Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda feesittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi yughshee allayla alnnahara yatlubuhu hatheethan waalshshamsa waalqamara waalnnujooma musakhkharatin bi-amrihi ala lahu alkhalqu waal-amru tabaraka Allahu rabbu alAAalameena◥

      Translation(s):
      Hilali: Indeed your Lord is Allâh, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days , and then He Istawâ (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!

      Yusuf Ali: Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority):…..

      Tafsir Jalalayn: “Surely your Lord is God, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, of the days of this world, that is to say, in the equivalent thereof, since there was no sun then“◥

      So my friend the Agniveer typo isn’t a lie , rather what the Quranic verse claims is indeed a scientific lie.

      re you ready to give up lies ? 😉

      • @Indian Agnostic

        Yes you are right I have checked Kuran 7:54 verse. I am interested to knows views of scholar of Kuran on this. What they think on this. In beginning Allah was standing & sit after completion of Earth & sky, moon, sun etc. That means Allah also stand, sleep, sit, eat. that means he has shape & he was not omnipresent because he was not on throne when he was making Earth, sky etc. After completion of these he sits on throne. Please scholar of Kuran send their views on this I am more interested in this now. & what is secret behind 6 days why not 5 or 7 days or 1 year.

      • Namaste Brother TruthSeeker

        Bingo! you hit it on the head ..lets see how brother Ahmad responds to your points

    • always you muslim point at some silly things, to hide your hate and killing relgion islam down with islam peace on earth

  57. Timely and well-written article. I invite all Agniveer haters (birth=caste Hindus, Jesus/Mohammed is the only messenger worth adoring Christians/Muslims, atheists) to try and live up to the very high standards set by team Agniveer in your thoughts and actions.

    If you are an Agniveer hater, feel free to post your rebuttals on any article. If your rebuttals can withstand my scrutiny I have no problems in refining/changing my stance. In fact, on days when there is no Muslim/Christian/atheist post on Agniveer, I feel incomplete as there has been nothing that has forced me to reevaluate my stance and beliefs.

    May Truth Prevail.

    • @ KalBhairav,

      Well, I am not Agniveer hater, but certainly I hate all those who use falsehood to prove that they are right. You do have a noble aim of eventually destroying all idols and all temples in India (No idol worship should mean this only; need to be seen if you do anything to accomplish that or only use it as a mask to spread hate against muslims so that the Indian society could be divided in the name of religion and you succeed in putting BJP back in power). If you really intend to do so, I will pray to Allah to give you success. At least, you and your hindu brothers and sisters will have a chance be saved from the eternal hellfire (as per my belief, not as per your belief, right)
      You have posted many questions and answers and surely most of your gullible followers will believe in what have been written. All these can be answered to make your readers more clear; however I think that the root of your problems lies in your question No. 3. I would like to give a simple solution to your root problem, it’s up to you to agree or not.
      Quote”3. However we do and we would continue to very strongly condemn those people or groups of people who believe in any one or more of the following:
      – all the people who do not believe in what they believe would be doomed in Hell forever, regardless of howsomuch noble or good they are.” Unquote
      Let me elaborate your sentence. I, as a muslim, firmly believe that anybody, muslim or non-muslim, who does not believe in the singleness of God and does worship idol or any living being will go to hell for eternity regardless of whatever noble or good deeds he/ she might have done in his/her life. I believe in this statement and hence I am a muslim, a believer of Islam.
      Now you have a problem with my belief and hence you will keep on strongly condemning me but don’t need to do that. You have much better options before you rather than keep on condemning me. Those are:
      (i) As a non-muslim, you do not believe in this sentence and hence you keep on worshipping whatever you want and whatever way you want. Since you do not believe this statement, it does not affect your physical or spiritual life in any way. In fact it should not have any value to you unless you believe in it. Don’t lose your sleep for what you do not believe as true.
      (ii) You believe in this sentence. That’s why you are afraid that with all your worldly deeds, you are destined to be in the eternal hell fire. If that’s the case, then convert to Islam and come out of your fear.

      • @Mohammed,

        >> You do have a noble aim of eventually destroying all idols and all temples in India

        What is wrong with idol worship ? Why shall agniveer destroy idols and temples in india? Can agniveer come and destroy kaaba and capture the relics in turkey so that he can declare himself as head of caliphite?

        >> (i) As a non-muslim, you do not believe in this sentence and hence you keep on worshipping whatever you want and whatever way you want. Since you do not believe this statement, it does not affect your physical or spiritual life in any way. In fact it should not have any value to you unless you believe in it. Don’t lose your sleep for what you do not believe as true.

        The same argument applies to you. since you believe in muhammad and allah please dont loose sleep in argument with agniveer. If your belief was strong enough you wouldnt have landed on agniveer site at all.

        Agniveer site I assume is more about the killing and destruction of muslims rather than changing muslims beliefs. Every persons has right to believe what ever he wants to believe, but to kill a persion just because he does not believe in your ideas is loathsome.

      • @Adolf,

        Quote “What is wrong with idol worship ? Why shall agniveer destroy idols and temples in india? Can agniveer come and destroy kaaba and capture the relics in turkey so that he can declare himself as head of caliphite?” Unquote

        Your site clearly says that Agniveer do not believe in idol worship as mandated in Vedas but you are asking me what is wrong with idol worship. Please do not contradict yourself. You can not have two contradictory theories supporting a single phenomenon. Naturally, one of the two has to be wrong. As vedas are much much older than Ramayana and Mahabharata, a natural corollary is that vedas are correct and hence idol worship is wrong. If you are very clear that something is wrong, then what will you do? You will try others to stop doing that; however if it is not possible to stop others, atleast you will not support them by saying nothing is wrong what others are doing.

        Quote “The same argument applies to you. since you believe in muhammad and allah please dont loose sleep in argument with agniveer. If your belief was strong enough you wouldnt have landed on agniveer site at all.” Unquote

        Please see above what kalbhairav wrote ” In fact, on days when there is no Muslim/Christian/atheist post on Agniveer, I feel incomplete as there has been nothing that has forced me to reevaluate my stance and beliefs.””

        I responded to kalbhairav because he invited me to come and discuss in this forum. I believed that kalbhairav is an intellectual who is really ready to discuss the positive crtiticism of his thoughts and ready to re-evaluate his stance and belief.

      • Idol worship may be foolishness, but destruction of idols is ruthlessness. I am guessing that you too are not in favor of idol worship (as you are devout muslim, I think), in that case, would you go about destroying the mazaars that we have in India?

      • @Mohammed
        Declaring something wright or wrong is perception. what is right for you today may be wrong tomorrow,base on the education that you may receive(be sure that education is different from brain washing).
        if someone does idol worship,it does not mean they should be killed and their places desecrated,they should be educated.Anyone who is meant to live by the standards of a book, he/she should gauge that book from the standpoint of logic and critique, and if it fails on even one it should be discarded, there should not be a situation where in one has a defend a scripture, which forms the basis of a civilization by referring to a adhoc situation or circumstance, as a civilization is much bigger than an individual, no matter what.
        the age of a scripture is not a proof of its authority by that standard, then bible is wright and Qur’an is wrong as i said its only logic and critique that proves the authority of any text worthy of imbibed.

        om tat sat brahmanArpanAstu

      • @ Mohmmed

        there is no need to break any Idol like mandir or masjid or spread violence in society. When Veda knowledge will be spread in society People stop all these practice automatically. There is no provision of mandir or Masjid in Veda.Why dont you understand this. Even I was Idol worshiper used to bow down before Mandir, Masjid, Gurudwara. But after reading veda i have stopped all these practices. You just stand with agniveer & try your best to spread Veda teaching. I am sure your dream of stopping ideal worship succeed very soon. Main reason of Idol worship that people did not understand god. They think god contain only in Mandir, Masjid. All Mandir or Masjid should be converted into Shuddhi center & teaching center of Vedic knowledge.

      • @ Mohmmed

        I did not understand why you are taking idol worship very seriously. This is a petty matter. A wise man should fight on this small issue. & If anybody bowing head before stone what harm he had done of society in this. It is totally personal matter & due to ignorance. And when Veda education will be start from school such small things like bowing head before stone will not arise.

      • Why do you idiot muslims go on and on about idol worship? Wht is stopping you from creating an idol or allah and worshipping him?

      • @Mohammed:

        That’s why you are afraid that with all your worldly deeds, you are destined to be in the eternal hell fire. If that’s the case, then convert to Islam and come out of your fear.

        I think knowingly or unknowingly you have hit upon the single greatest reason Islam continues to be practised in the world – fear. To believe in something because a book of doubtful purport says non-belief in it will lead to eternal hellfire is stupid, stupid and stupid. So, when did your parents instill this fear in you? At what age was your childhood innocence raped with such frightful, intellectually terrorizing and dishonest thoughts?

      • Namaste Mohammed

        —————You do have a noble aim of eventually destroying all idols and all temples in India————-

        1. No. Not at all! Where did you get this info from? I have intellectual differences with idol worship, should it be enough for me to break idols and temples? Dont you have any difference of opinion with your mother, father, sister, brother, wife, children on any issue? If yes, do you kill them all? Whats wrong with you Jihadis? Do you possess brain at all?

        2. And I dont believe in any symbol for divine, any ritual of kissing and circumambulating of any stone. So should I hammer down all mosques and Kaba stone?

        ———–No idol worship should mean this only————

        This is the tone of terrorists. For me, no idol worship means I will not do it and will discuss others regarding same in friendly manner and not that I desecrate the idols or Kaba or mosques. Got it?

        ———–If you really intend to do so, I will pray to Allah to give you success.———–

        I have intent to destroy Kaba idol as well as Masjids along with idols of hindus! Now pray to Allah 😉

        ————-Let me elaborate your sentence. I, as a muslim, firmly believe that anybody, muslim or non-muslim, who does not believe in the singleness of God and does worship idol or any living being will go to hell for eternity regardless of whatever noble or good deeds he/ she might have done in his/her life. I believe in this statement and hence I am a muslim, a believer of Islam.————

        This is why you and all firm believers of this fake Quran are called terrorists here 🙁

        ————–As a non-muslim, you do not believe in this sentence and hence you keep on worshipping whatever you want and whatever way you want. Since you do not believe this statement, it does not affect your physical or spiritual life in any way.—————

        It does affect my life because I will be put to death or forced to pay Jajiya for not being Muslim if I am in Islamic state as per this Quranic/Satanic verse.

        “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, [even if they are] of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” [9:29]

        So its my duty to oppose this evil called Islam with best of my abilities so that I and other peaceful people dont witness the cruelty and barbarism which they have witnessed for last 1000 years. I will do that because then no Mohammed will ever praise and defend the cult of killers and rapists of his own ancestors.

        ————- In fact it should not have any value to you unless you believe in it. Don’t lose your sleep for what you do not believe as true.————

        As Brother Adolf has suggested, you too can ignore this site! What say?

        ————-You believe in this sentence. That’s why you are afraid that with all your worldly deeds, you are destined to be in the eternal hell fire. If that’s the case, then convert to Islam and come out of your fear.————-

        Imagine I come to your home with 50 goondas and make your whole family slave and leave you with no option but to leave Islam. Will you leave Islam in that case?If yes, you are a coward, if no, this is what you are suggesting for others 🙁

      • @Vajra,

        Quote “—————You do have a noble aim of eventually destroying all idols and all temples in India————-

        1. No. Not at all! Where did you get this info from? I have intellectual differences with idol worship, should it be enough for me to break idols and temples? Dont you have any difference of opinion with your mother, father, sister, brother, wife, children on any issue? If yes, do you kill them all? Whats wrong with you Jihadis? Do you possess brain at all?”

        Please note that your conclusion that to destroy idol worship, you need to kill others is seriuosly skewed. If you seriously believe in your vedas and are against idol worship, then you will like to see that there are no idols around and all your people stop idol worship.

        Also, I said ‘eventually”, meaning after years and decaded of your hard work, not a quick fix.

        You can certainly have differences of opinion but can you be pro as well as against an idea simultaneously? Take your stand and stick to it. If it’s your family, then what will you do, try everything possible to make them understand your viewpoint and agree to you, if you believe you are right.

        2. And I dont believe in any symbol for divine, any ritual of kissing and circumambulating of any stone. So should I hammer down all mosques and Kaba stone?

        Your understanding is correct. This is what I said. You can not hammer down all the idols and temples. But if you work very hard, and because you are on the path of truth, you will be succesful in making idol worshipping hindus see your reasoning and in start believing in vedas and eventually they themselves will throw these idols in the sea, same way as they throw Ganeshas idols in sea after Ganapati festival.

        Quote “———–No idol worship should mean this only————

        “This is the tone of terrorists. For me, no idol worship means I will not do it and will discuss others regarding same in friendly manner and not that I desecrate the idols or Kaba or mosques. Got it?” Unquote

        I am supporting you in your cause of stopping idol worship and you shower me with such beautification? Terrorists have no religion, they are mercenaries.

        Quote “———–If you really intend to do so, I will pray to Allah to give you success.———–

        I have intent to destroy Kaba idol as well as Masjids along with idols of hindus! Now pray to Allah” Unquote

        I will surely pray to Allah to give you satbuddhi and to guide you to the right path.

        Quote “This is why you and all firm believers of this fake Quran are called terrorists here” Unquote

        You do not believe in Quran and hence you are fee to call it fake. I do not call you terrorist though saffron terrorists in India are exposed but you still love to call me terrorists. Terrorism has nothing to do with any religion. But still you people like to brand all muslims as terorists to justify your falsehood. There is a very good possibility that many of the muslim terrorists are funded by hindus with hidden agenda to defame muslims.

      • @mahmood

        “Terrorism has nothing to do with any religion. ”

        yes it is to do with islam, there are many verses in quran that justifies these activities and person who do all these things always quotes from quran. so how it is not related to your religion?

        whereas do the so called saffron terrorists ever justified there deeds by giving reference from vedas? unlike yours they didn’t contain any such crap.

      • @mahmood

        my dear friend – Terrorism definitely has its root in Islam. The so called Jihad is so loose a term that it has been twisted, twirled to justify terrorism. There is no chance that a Hindu organization will sponsor Islamic organizations. u r day dreaming.

        Regarding saffron terrorism – dont assume that hindus will tolerate Islam jihad silently anymore. you cant fight guns with roses.

      • Namaste Mohammed

        ————Please note that your conclusion that to destroy idol worship, you need to kill others is seriuosly skewed.———-

        1. For any idolater, his/her idol has more value to him than his/her own life. Now? Breaking idols will be worse than killing idolaters.
        2. Do you remember when Babri Masjid was demolished, how many people died? Why? Why not Muslims bear this as just the fall of some stones for which noone should be killed?
        3. After an American burned Quran, many Muslims died in Afganistan and several other places in protests. Tell them that Quran is not idol for which they want to die. Just do it.

        ————If you seriously believe in your vedas and are against idol worship, then you will like to see that there are no idols around and all your people stop idol worship.———–

        1. Vedas nowhere ask me to slit throats of idolaters unlike Quran. Vedas dont prescribe idol worship and tell the disadvantages of it, but nowhere they set death penalty or breaking of idols. Why do you think that this terrorist mindset of destroying everything that is not in your book should be followed by us?

        2. Vedas talk of death penalty for invaders, transgressors, rapists and killers. So I am sure if Hindus would have followed Vedas correctly, butchers of Arab and Turk could have never invaded our country and enslaved half the population and land. An idol worshipper can harm himself at the most but transgressors like Ghauri, Ghazni, Babur, Taimur etc butchered thousands of innocents. They deserved the death prescribed in Vedas. You should condemn those first before idolaters.

        ————–You can certainly have differences of opinion but can you be pro as well as against an idea simultaneously?———-

        No. But disagreement should not lead to destruction of the cause of disagreement. For example I am against Islam, Quran, Muhammad etc. So should I start burning Quran and desecrate Masjids?

        ——————Take your stand and stick to it. If it’s your family, then what will you do, try everything possible to make them understand your viewpoint and agree to you, if you believe you are right.—————-

        Who will decide that who is right and who is wrong? I say I am right, you say you are right. Now? I kill you or you kill me? Simple Islamic logic 🙁

        ————-But if you work very hard, and because you are on the path of truth, you will be succesful in making idol worshipping hindus see your reasoning and in start believing in vedas————-

        I am trying. And what about you? What are you doing for Muslims who worship Kaba, graves etc by rituals like bowing, kissing, circumambulating? Hope you yourself stop worshipping the Kaba idol and then will convince fellow Muslims 🙂

        And until you reject Kaba worship, you should refrain yourself from condemning other idolaters.

        BTW what are you doing for Muslims who are killing/being killed at the hands of Muslims from different sects in places like Pakistan? Do you think idolatry is bigger problem than blowing mosques of the sect which is not yours? 🙁

        ————I am supporting you in your cause of stopping idol worship and you shower me with such beautification? Terrorists have no religion, they are mercenaries.————-

        My cause is not to stop idol worship. My cause is to make people think logically. I want everyone should have logic behind every belief/disbelief. I want Muslims specially to stop their Kaba worship and then argue Hindus on idol worship. I want Muslims to have logic behind One God and One Rasul and One Kaba etc other than Quran says so!

        My main cause is to destroy the ideology which says only Muhammad is final rasul and who does not believe in him will go to hell. This is million times greater cause for me than idol worship.

        ———–I will surely pray to Allah to give you satbuddhi and to guide you to the right path.———-

        So condemning idol worship is right and condemning Kaba worship wrong? What a hypocrite you are

        ————But still you people like to brand all muslims as terorists to justify your falsehood.———

        We never call every Muslim terrorist. But of course those who want to wipe my religion out of the world, who want me to surrender to Islam or make me a humble Jajiya payer, are all terrorists and I want severe punishments for those.

        ———- There is a very good possibility that many of the muslim terrorists are funded by hindus with hidden agenda to defame muslims.———–

        Quite possible! Indian Muslims have this culture. They follow the religion whose followers invaded their motherland, raped their mothers, killed their fathers and forced them to convert into it. They praise the rapists of their ancestors (look Pakistan has named its nukes after invaders Gauri, Ghazni).

        So I am not denying this possibility. Those who could not be loyal to their motherland and mothers, how can I expect them to be loyal to the cult of foreigners?

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