Sikh Gurus, Vedas and Hinduism

Sikhism represents a tradition that every Indian is proud of. The Sikh Gurus have inspired us in an era that was perhaps the most challenging phase of our history. One cannot forget the contributions of Sikh Gurus and their selfless sacrifices to consolidate the society, provide them direction and overthrow the rule of invaders. That is why the Sikh Gurus are revered not only by Sikhs but all nationalists in general as role models.

The medieval era represents the darkest phase of our society. Internally we were being eroded by termites of casteism, gender discrimination and overt ritualism dissociated from Vedas. And externally, we were being butchered by a tribe of most uncivilized society of west Asia – read the Ghaznis, Khiljis, Mughals, Slaves, Tughlaqs etc.

The Sikh gurus, in these turbulent times, lit the lamp of Vedic wisdom and steered the society towards the fundamental tenets of our culture – rationalism, actions and compassion.

Often their is dispute over whether Sikhism is part of Hinduism or a separate religion. In our view, this is a meaningless debate. Because the word Hinduism has different connotations. From a western mindset, Hinduism represents a mix of very specific rituals associated with casteism, gender discrimination and idol worship. If this be Hinduism, then Sikhs are definitely not Hindus.

However, if Hinduism is considered to mean the culture that is inspired from the philosophy of Vedas, then perhaps not many sects are more Hindu than Sikhs. Sikhism represents the message of Vedas in simple language of layman.

Let us see what makes Sikhism an extremely pure representation of Vedic wisdom (We shall ignore later day aberrations and focus on the key message of the noble Gurus):

– Sikhism rejects birth-based casteism and believes in equality of all

– Sikhism believes in gender equality

– Sikhism believes in protection of cows because it is one of the most useful gifts of God to humans

– Sikhism believes in actions as means to achieve God. Thus they reject withdrawal from life.

– Sikhism believes in one single timeless shapeless omnipresent God whose best name is Onkaar (Om + Kaar). This is almost verbatim translation of Yajurveda 40.8.

– Sikhism believes in theory of Karma and rebirth

– Sikhism refuses the concept of Heaven/ Hell and believe in salvation as ultimate goal

– Sikhism believes in Nama Smaran or understanding the names and properties of God as way to achieve Him

– Sikhism considers Maya or ignorance as obstacle to salvation and urges to eradicate it through devotion, noble actions and knowledge

– Sikhism takes it as our utmost duty to fight against injustice of any kind. The lives of Sikh gurus exemplify this.

– Sikhism considers entire humanity as one family and refuses to have different treatments for people of different beliefs and religions.

The list can continue further. Note that if you replace Sikhism in above lines with ‘Vedic Dharma’ you would realize that the points still hold valid.
1. God created Vedas (Onkaar ved nirmaye- Rag Ramkali Mahla 1 Onkar Shabd 1)Further, the Guru Granth Sahib very clearly elucidates on the glory of Vedas:

2. With order of God Vedas were created so that humans can decide what is virtue and sin (Hari aagya hoye Ved paap punya vichaariya- Maru Dakhne Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

3. No one can value the importance of Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda (Sam Ved, Rig, Yajur, Atharvan brahme mukh maaiya hai traigun, taakee keemat kah na sakai ko….- Marusolahe Mahla 1 Shabd 17)

4. God created day, night, forests, greenery, water and 4 Vedas that are like 4 treasures (Chaar Ved chaare khaani- Rag Maru Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

5. How can glory of Vedas be stated whose knowledge is without end (Ved vakhaan kahahi ik kahiye, oh ve ant ant kin lahiye- Vasant Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.3)

6. Of the infinite texts, Vedas are the best (Asankh granth mukhi Ved paath- Japuji 17)

7. All the Shastras, Vedas and ancient texts describe the Supreme Lord (Smriti sastra Ved puraan paar brahm ka karahi vakhiyaan- Gaund Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

8. Noble persons elucidate the glory of Vedas but unfortunate people do not understand (Ved bakhiyaan karat saadhujan bhaagheen samjhat nahi khalu- Todi Mahla 5 Shabd 26)

9. Study of Vedas enhances knowledge by blessings of God (Kahant Veda gunant guniya…- Sahaskriti Mahla 5.14)

10. Analysis of Vedas, Shastras and ancient texts enriches the entire family and makes them lucky (Ved puran saasatr vichaaram…. badbhaagi Naanak ko taaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20)

11. Vedas describe the glory of one God (Kal mein ek naam kripaanidhi … ih vidhi Ved bataavai- Rag Sortha Mahla 9 Shabd 5)

12. Do not say that Vedas are false. False are those people who do not analyze (Ved katev kahahu mat jhoothe jhootha jo na vichaare- Rag Prabhati Kabirji Shabd 3)

13. Those who studied Vedas were called Vedis. They initiated noble virtuous acts. Listening to Rigveda, Samveda, Yajurveda and Atharveda destroyed all sins. (Jinai Ved padhyo suvedi kahaaye… Padhe Sam Vedam Yajur Ved Kattham Rigam Ved paathayam kare bhaav hattham… Atharav Ved pathayam suniyo paap nathiyam…- Dasham Guru Granth Sahib Vichitra Natak Adhyaya 4)

Sikh-Gurus,-Vedas-and-Hinduism--

To check more examples of glory of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib refer the following:

14. Chauth upaaye chaare Veda- Rag Bilawal Mahla 1 Thiti

15. Chache chaar Ved jin saaje chaare khani chaar juga- Rag Asa Mahla 1 Pati Likhi Shabd 9

16. Oordh mool jis saakh talaaha chaar Ved jit laage- Gujri Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.1

17. Chare Ved hoye sachiyaar- Asadi Var Mahla 1 Var 13

18. Chaturved mukh vachni uchre- Rag Gaudi Mahla 5 Shabd 164

19. Chaturved pooran hari naai Ramkali Mahla 5  Shabd 17

20. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maane Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 12

21. Chaar Ved jihwa bhane- Rag Sarang Mahla 5 Shabd 131

22. Brahme ditte Ved Rag Malar Var Mahla 2 Var 3

23. Chaare Ved Brahme kau diye padh padh kare vichari- Rag Asa Mahla 3 Shabd 22

24. Chaare Ved Brahme np furmaayia- Maaru Solahe 3.22

25. Chaare deeve chahu hath diye eka eki vaari- Vasant Hindol 1.1

26. Vedu pukaare vaachiye vaani brahm biaas- Shreeraag Ashtpadiyan 1.7

27. Vedan ganh bole sach koi- Maajh Vaar Mahla 1 Vaar 12

28. Deeva jale andhera jaai Ved paath mati paapan khaai- Raag Suhi

29. Ved pukaarai punn paap surag narak ka veeu- Raag Saarang Vaar 1.16

30. Gurumukhi parche Ved vichari- Raag Ramkali Sidh Gosht Shabd 28

31. Puchhahu Ved pandatiyaan muthi vin maane- Rag Maaru Ashtpadiyan 1.6

32. Man hath kine na paaiyo puchhahu Vedaam jaai- Shri Raag Vaar 3.10

33. Smriti saasat Ved vakhaanai bharmai bhoola tat na jaanai- Rag Maajh Ashtpadiyan 3.18

34. Veda mahi naam uttam so- Rag Ramkali Mahla 3 Aanand 19

35. Hari jeeu ahankaar n bhaavai Ved kook sunaavahi- Rag Maaru 3.9

36. Jugi jugi aapo aapna dharm hai sodh dekhahu Ved puraan- Rag Vilaaval 3.4

37. Saasat Ved puraan pukaarahi dharam karahu shat karam dradaiya- Vilaaval Mahla 4.2

38. Naanak vichaarahi sant jan chaar Ved kahande- Rag Gaudi Vaar 4.12

39. Vaani brahm Ved dharam dradahu paap tajaaiya bal raam jeeu- Suhi Chhant 4.2

40. Das ath chaar Ved sabh poochhahu jan naanak naam chhudaai jeeu- Maaru 4.8

41. Smrat saasat Ved vakhaane jog gyaansidh sukh jaane- Rag Gaudi 5.111

42. Ved puraan smrat bhane- Gaudi 5.144

43. Saasat smrat Ved vichaare mahaapurushan iu kahiya- Rag Gaudi 5.162

44. Ved saasat jan pukaarahi sunai nahi dora- Rag Aasa 5.152

45. Saasat Ved smriti sabhi….- Gujri 5.2

46. Chaar pukaarahi na tu maanahi- Ramkali 5.12

47. Kahant Veda gunant guniya- Salok sahaskriti Mahla 5.14

48. Ved puraan saasatr vichaaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20

49. Ved puraan saadh sang- Rag Gaudi 9.6

50. Ved puraan padhai ko ih gun simre hari ko naama- Rag Gaudi 9.7

51. Ved puraan jaas gun gaavat taako naam hiye mein dhar re- Gaudi 9.9

52. Ved puraan smriti ke mat sun nimash na hiye vasaavai- Rag Sorath 9.7

Now Guru Granth Sahib also consists of several verses that appear to be condemnation of Vedas. These are often cited to prove that Sikhism is a separate cult.

However, this is a very childish argument. How can Guru Granth Sahib condemn Vedas when it also praises it to an extent that it calls Vedas divine and that those who do not appreciate Vedas as foolish?

In reality, the condemnation of Vedas relate to those people who only mug up Vedas but do not live their lives accordingly. Or those people who distort the message of Vedas by claiming to have expertise. The likes of western indologists and communist historians who see beef and wine in Vedas perfectly exemplify the target of this condemnation.

And why Guru Granth Sahib, Vedas themselves condemn such hypocrites. Rigveda 1.164.39 very clearly announces – “What can the Richas of Vedas do for a person who does not possess intellect”.

Upanishads and Geeta also condemn a person who claims expertise in Vedas but do not preach.

If one reviews the Guru Granth Sahib dictionary by renowned Sikh scholar Tara Singhji, you would find a striking similarity between what he wrote on Vedas and what was written by Swami Dayanand.

Thus we see that Sikhism represents the essence of Vedic wisdom in simple language of common man and rejects all those external features that are wrongly associated with Hinduism.

Our humble reverence to the great Sikh Gurus who saved the society by lighting the lamp of Vedic wisdom when there was utter darkness. Lets now work to carry forward their noble legacy by living by this wisdom and bringing transformation in self, society and world through service, devotion and actions.

(For a thorough treatment of this subject, we strongly recommend the book “Arya Siddhant aur Sikh Guru” by Swami Swatantranand, a legendary freedom fighter, leader of Hyderabad Satyagrah movement and established Vedic scholar.)

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

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Comments

    • Truth Seeker says

      वेद कतेव नहीं झूठे, झूठे है जो न विचारे : गुरु नानक देव जी

      • Repugniveer says

        Guru Granth Sahib also praises the Kateb: Torah, Gospel, Psalm and Quran. So how then Sikhs become Hindus?

        • Ramesh says

          Truth in any Holy book should be accepted by Vedic thinker.So Hindus should widen their acceptance spectrum.Anything which meets truthfulness according to Vedas should be accepted gracefully by HINDUS.

          • Krishnarao says

            And anything that is false according to the Vedas should be rejected. Please complete your statement instead of just giving half statements. This is how we get confused Hindus and you are propagating it.

  1. aryaveer1vedic says

    The word “Sikh” means ‘the disciple’ .They had taken a pledge to protect Dharma or Hinduism from voilent attecks of Islam.They opposed the anti-vedic activities in Hinduism and thus were boycotted by them.

    • himat says

      u can’t say sikhs fought against islam. we never had any problem with muslims. just injustice. the message has always been about the love for God.

      • says

        sikhs fought against the conversion of religion which was being done forcibly by muslims!!!

        so guru sahiban fought against the conversion of people to islam , hence in that sense they fought against islam !!!

        now you can’t escape this fact that they fought against this conversion of religion!!

        • satnam singh says

          Guru teg bahadur told Aurenzeb that if ur religion is in truble instead of Hindus, then I will sacrifice my life for your religion.

          • jay says

            hmmmmm……means he was really following vedas…..bcoz agar kisi k upar atyachaar ho rha hai to usse bachana chaiye…..yahi ved kehte hain….yahi gita bhi kaehti hai….agar tumhara khud ka bhai bhi kuch galat kar rha ho to apne bhai k khilaaf ho jaana chahiye…. us tym relations nahi deakhne chahiye…..bilkul jaise gita main krisha ne arjun ko bataya tha…..but atyachaar to hindus k upar he hua tha…..so he did ryt thing and saved hindu brother….bcoz no one is hindu sikh or muslim by his birth ….every1 is human….and we must show humanity ….so we must destroy the evil one :)

      • Vinu says

        You can not deny history. It is true that Sikhs were against Muslims and Islam and the greatest threat faced by the Sikhs were at the hands of the Mughals.

        For eg; Sikhs are forbidden to eat halal meat.

      • sunil says

        You are right himmat. Sikhs never fought against muslims or they never acted in favour of Hindus. Read the history of Guru Gobind singh. He was fighting with Rajputs for small territorial disputes. It was the rajput raja who could get the help of Mughals and got the Guru and his family wiped out. As regards Guru Arjan Dev he had favoured a rebel of Mughal Sultanate and was given punishment for that, NOT to save Hinduism. From 6th Guru Guru HarGobind they started living a life of Rajas more than Gurus, HarGobind had a big army. I doubt if the Gurus did anything to help Hindus. they were as worldly as the Mughals or any contemporary king could have been. Reference http://www.wikipedia.org

    • puneet verma says

      This is nonsense. Hindu protected themselves. Don’t forget Rajputs, Jats and Marathas. Read the book “Heroic Hindu Resistance” by Sita Ram Goel.

      • Vinay Arya says

        If Hindus had protected themselves from the Muslims then there would have been no Muslim in this country.Hence no danga fasad no terrorist.

        • Islam stands for Truth, Courage, Compassion and Character. Claim your success says

          @Vinay Arya
          You have wrong notions. You can not convert to Slim Shaikh. I will be always Muslim.

          • Repugniveer says

            Yes Islam stands for

            Islam stands for Truth: Because it claims to be religion of truth (3:19)

            Courage: Because it encourages it people to kill and get killed fighting non-Muslims in the cause of Allah (9:111)

            Compassion: Because it tells Muslims not to kill a fellow Muslim (4:92)

            Character: Because it disallows Muslims to rape Muslim women whereas non-Muslim women are fair game (4:24, 8:41)

        • Repugniveer says

          What non-sense?
          The fact that they protected themselves is the reason that at the time of India’s partition they were 75% of the population.

  2. Aryavratta says

    Agniveer ji namaste

    May I be permitted to ask you a question. What are you and who do you represent? With what you have written in this article it clearly looks like you have taken the RSS’s pseudo nationalistic line hook, line and sinker. To say the very least, anyone who denies the Vedas is not and can’t be a Vedic.
    The Vedas are Vedas and the sikh book is the sikh book, there is no similarity between the two. Either you are thoroughly confused as to who and what you represent or you have an ulterior motive behind writing such an article.

    Sikhs are not, were not and never will be Vedics, just like Pauranics are Pauranics and not Vedics. Instead of preaching the truth, you seem to have taken the line of false nationalism and seem to have become an RSS ideologue.

    While if any Sikh or Muslim or Xtian or Pauranic wishes to be a Vedic and follow the Vedas, he or she is most welcome to the family of Aryas and welcome into the nation of Aryavratta. However by mixing up nationalism with vedic theology you have gone astray from your mission of Ved Prachar, if that was your mission in the first place.

    Needless to say Vedas and their knowledge is not limited to the geographical boundaries of this any nation, nor do the holy Vedas teach us the notion of false Nationalism. Thus someone who is a Vedic he is always a Vedic first and foremost and then anything else.

    By writing this article you have not just hurt me, but many other fans of yours, on who’s insistence I am writing this comment.

    Today you are saying that Sikhs, who’s gurus quite vehemently rejected the Vedas, are Vedics. Tomorrow you will write an article saying that jainas, Buddhists and Shintos are also Vedics irrespective of whether believe in Eshwar or not, whether they know the Holy Vedas as the first and last revelations or Eshwar or not. This will only create confusion, and confusion is not the hallmark of a Vedic.

    By quoting a few verses from the book of Sikhs you have somehow tried to prove that they are Vedics. This is a fallacy, as at many places the Sikh book also criticizes the Vedas and writes all things that are not really appreciative of the Vedas. If the same book praises (as per the verses you have presented which will have to be authenticated), and then at other places criticizes the same book, then there is a huge problem as the message of the same book is not consistent.

    While I know that is understandable as all man made books have this deficiency, but let us be very sure about some things, Sikhs are not Vedics. Sikhs don’t perform the Yagjna, nor do they even believe in its significance. Sikhs decry wearing of Yajnopavit, which is a necessity for a Vedic, Sikhs don’t consider the Vedas as a message from Eshwar. Moreover we don’t even believe in the same God, as the description of Eshwar as given in the holy Vedas is vastly different from what is mentioned in the book of the Sikhs.

    Kindly don’t try working out compromise formulas like the RSS, as in the future it will only lead to the doom of this website and the wonderful mission that you had started. Should you take this piece of request in vain, it would be entirely your decision as this website belongs to you and you have the right to publish what you like. However rest assured you will loose at least one dedicated follower.

    Dhanyavad

    • Vik says

      @Aryavratta

      Namaste brother,

      brother, if you had read this article carefully, some of your raised questions have already been answered. You said if SGGS praises Vedas on one side, but criticizes on the other, how can it be possible. Brother, this means, Vedas are praised, but people people who mug up Vedic verses and do NOT live their lives as per Vedas should be condemned. For example, there are Arya Samajis even today who say that they are Vedic and Dayanad followers, but at times they do anti Vedic deeds. So these people should be condemned.

      I am also a dedicated follower of Agniveer site, and I find nothing wrong with this article. This article basically lists the similarities between Sikhism and Vedic Dharma. Yes, I agree, there could be some number of differences, but we are worried about similarities here only. I must say today, sikhs are more closer to the Vedas, than those millions of hindus themselves.

      But at the same time, I do confess there is a huge difference between Sikh gurus, and modern day sikhs. For example, sikhism rejects caste systems, but today, many sikhs brag about their castes like some being jatts and some being others. On contrary, in countries like Canada and USA, sikhs have made separate gurudwaras for jatts, separate for tharkhans and separate for other tribal sikhs. And most importantly Sikhs do consume beef in countries like Canada and USA. Now, I know all these actions that modern day sikhs perform are both Anti Sikhism and Anti Vedic, but I am trying to say that almost everybody has deviated from the true teachings of their religion.

      • satnam singh says

        I don’t know much about Vedas, I just learned that,” According to Vedas, a Hindu is not allowed to cut his body hairs, if it is so, then 68% population of India is non-religious”. And they r living in a confusion, assuming themselves to b a Hindu.

        • Ankur says

          @Satnam Singh
          Dont know about the claim of body hairs, but you are right that majority of indian hindus are living in confusion as they are not guided by the veda.

    • says

      Namaste Brother Aryavratta

      What Agniveer stands for is hyperlinked in beginning of every article. We would try to address some of your thoughts in best possible manner in following points:

      a. We disagree that anyone who denies Vedas is not Vedic. While SGGS does not deny Vedas, as given in examples in the article, if any other text even if it does not specifically accept Vedas as divine, is still not anti-vedic so far there is a genuine attempt towards truth, welfare and rationality. This is because the touchstone of being in line with Vedas is “Anritaat Satyam Upaimi” (Yajurveda 1.5). Nowhere in 4 Vedas it is mentioned that one has to believe in these books to be termed Vedic.

      b. In fact those, who believe firmly in Vedas as ultimate without knowing properly “why”, are no different from those who believe in Bible or Quran. This is recipe of downfall as per Vedas.

      c. Vedas for us are books of best practices. They help you correct your course as you progress ahead heeding to your inner voice. They are like the ISO standards or perfect encyclopedia for reference. The starting point is not to believe in Vedas blindly but to follow inner voice honestly and stick to basic ideology of Yam and Niyam that are so scientific. And then as you progress, Vedas start making sense, you add to knowledge through study and practice and gradually become masters of Vedas.

      d. We believe that all books except Vedas are human creation and hence bound to have errors and omissions. Thus the touchstone of assessing these books should be the overall direction and intent, along with broad content. So far these comply with Vedas, we term the book as Vedic.

      e. RSS and Agniveer have different objectives, though there is a common ground as well. Our goal is to unite together all like-minded noble forces for greater welfare of world and reach Mukti for self and everyone. We have Vedas as foundation but not as a mugging of certain pronunciations that rarely anyone understands, but though imbibing the essence in actual lives.

      f. There is no specific cult or group called Vedic. Everyone is Vedic when he or she follow the rational way and anti-Vedic when they do not. Thus Pauranics or Sikhs or even Muslims or Christians are Vedics in specific areas if they follow noble ways of character, humility, social welfare, morality, respect for women, surrender to Supreme etc. The Americans are miles ahead of us to be termed as Vedics when it comes to social and political discipline. That is why, as per Vedas, they are the most powerful nation of world from economic and political standpoint.

      I don’t know of a single group that can by and large be called Vedic today.

      g. You talk of a family of Aryas which alone is Vedic and rest is not. This seems like a Utopian concept. If any water-tight silo be the notion of being Arya, all I can say is that this notion has no backing of Vedas at least.

      h. Yes, Jains are Vedic as far as basic principles of morality are concerned. Same goes for Buddhists. To believe in Eeshwar or to believe in vedas as divine are NOT necessary to be Vedic. This approach is good for Bible and Quran lovers but not for Vedic Dharmis.

      In fact the whole notion of someone either being Vedic or Non-Vedic only if he or she believes in:
      – Vedas as divine
      – Eeshwar as Supreme
      – Three eternal entities
      – Present earth being some 1.960853112 billion years old.
      – etc etc
      is not different from 5 pillars of Islam to be Muslim or similar belief in Jesus to be christian.
      Neither do the 4 Vedas anywhere mention these as prerequisites nor can they actually make any sense for a rational being.

      To accept truth and reject falsehood eagerly to best of intent is only criterion to be Vedic. Whatever you consider as necessary prerequisite is merely next step that comes automatically in journey of truth.

      How many people you think actually understand concept of God or trinity even at basic level? I can challenge that today there is hardly a single person alive in any Arya family who understands these fundamentally. When even Gautam and Jaimini had differences in these deep subjects, what makes anyone claim that x, y and z beliefs make one Vedic dharmi, else one is not?

      i. We never claimed Sikhs are Vedics or that SGGS is divine. We only said that Sikh Gurus established the essence of Vedic dharma during a most turbulent and dark phase of history. If I send you to a tribal village in Africa, how will you teach them Vedic dharma? Will you open a gurukul for them and have them mug verses? Or will you guide them to adopt rational civilized ways as per Vedas to best of your intellect. Agniveer would certainly follow the later. And given the state of society in middle ages, Sikh gurus tried the same.

      j. Today you talk of vedic/non-vedic because one Swami Dayanand gave you, in a capsule, essence of Vedic dharma and established uselessness of casteism etc. But before that era, how was one supposed to teach these concepts when even access to Vedas was impossible to common masses? Under such situations, it would be welcome to reject a birth-based caste system, and other false external symbols of religion that have no sanction in Vedas. That is what Sikh gurus tried to do with whatever knowledge they had.

      k. What Sikhs do is not focus of this article. What Sikh Gurus preached is the focus. Havan etc are rituals, best practices but not MUST HAVES for Vedic dharma. Cite me one verse from any vedic text that says that doing Havan is essential trait of Dharma. In fact cite me one reference that Yajna in fact means Havan. Yajna only means Daana, Devapuja and Sangatikaran (doing relevant things).

      l. Having said all this, would state that bulk of your claims on concepts in SGGS are myths and not facts. And we are guided by none other than the great Swami Swatantranand whose book “Arya Siddhant aur Sikh Guru” forms the foundation of this article. If likes of Swami Swatantranand, Pt Lekhram, Swami Shradhanand and Prof rajendra Jigyasu are anti-Vedics, then we also are indeed.

      Bulk of the examples brought by you are merely social/ timebound customs and not essence of Vedic dharma. These have nowhere been defined as essential parts of Vedic dharma. We never claimed that Sikhism is Vedic Dharma itself. We however state that Sikhism simplified the basic essence of Vedic Dharma and presented to masses. We stand by it. During the era when Sikhism emerged, casteism was the prominent trait of society. Thus these things like Gayatri, Yajna, Varnashrama were birth-based rights and hence it would not have been possible for any Sikh guru to recommend these. Further, if Gayatri, Yajna, Sanskaars, Varnashrama etc form core basis of Vedic dharma, then perhaps there are hardly few people who are Vedic dharmis. Most others, include almost entire Arya Samaj just blindly believes in these without even understanding what they actually mean. Further, the method of marriage etc varies even in various Hindu sects. In fact Sikh method was divided only few decades ago. We believe that Sikh gurus made a genuine attempt to strengthen the society and defend the nation. And that suffices to call them followers of Vedic dharma to best of their abilities and intent. Would not hesitate to add that those who claim to believe in Vedas and do not even know what Vedas actually contain are in fact against Vedas. And one who does not acknowledge Vedas as even divine because he or she honestly does not believe in it is more Vedic as per Vedas. This attempt to be honest defines Vedic dharma, more than anything else. Everything else is mere a best practice that automatically comes with the process of knowledge enhancement. Thus, if you talk of era before Swami Dayanand summarized the essence of Vedas in late 19th century, Sikh gurus were the best examples of Vedic spirit given the time and situation, as well as the fact that Vedic education/ society was completely broken down..

      Further, our goal is not to prove how we are different and live in our own silo with inflated ego that we alone are best. Our goal on contrary is to unite all well-intentioned minds for fulfilling the ultimate mission of Vedas – Truth, Compassion, Rationality, Character, Selflessness, Self-Control and overall Global Vision. This is summarized in last Sukta of Rigveda. And we have been inspired towards this vision not only by our great Rishis and role models, but also specifically by Swami Swatantranand who wrote “Arya Siddhant aur Sikh Guru”. Read this book and most of your myths would be busted. To know who Swami Swatantranand was, please read about Hyderabad Satyagrah or contact Prof Rajendra Jigyasu who incidentally also is editor of this marvelous book. He has dedicated this book to Baba Arjun Singh, a great Sikh scholar and grandfather of Bhagat Singh – who was also a dedicated Arya Samaj missionary in his era.

      Now we give here the excerpt from Editorial Preface of “Arya Siddhant aur Sikh Guru” by Swami Swatantranand written by noted historian Prof Rajendra Jigyasu –

      “Several Arya scholars have written about Sikh Gurus and their sacrifices with pride. A few names are- Pt Lekhram, Swami Shradhanand, Baba Arjunsingh, Acharya Chamupati, Pt Jagatsingh, Pt Munshiram Lasani, Pt Kriparam, Mahashay Chiranjilal, Sardar Kishan Singh, Mahashay Tarachand, Prof Tilokchand etc. Debate and discussions is not new. Are there less debates even within Sikhs? But what is needed is not to instigate differences and animosity, but to find threads of unity, affection and togetherness. Have people thought that Maharaja Ranjit Singh forced English to ban cow slaughter? He had performed Yajna in Jwala Devi temple. He wanted to donate Kohinoor diamond to Jagannath or Golden temple. After his death, the new king swore by Geeta. Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s ashes were immersed in Ganga. The message of Sri Guru Gonind Singh in “Teerth Koti Kiye Insan” was repeated by Swami Dayanand….”

      Dhanyawad

      • Gurmeet Singh says

        Dear Arya Musafir,

        You are promoting a book by Swami Swatantranand which is a ordinary man against the teaching of SGGS. I am sorry but it is not fair.

        If you know the basics of Sikh Religion then you must be aware that for every Sikh SGGS is not a book but a living Guru which teaches all humanity (Not only to Hindus/Sikhs as Vedas does or any respective Granths of respective religions) art of living in Kalyug.

        Also you said everybody is Vedic whether they believes in these books (Vedas) or not then how you can differentiate it with birth caste system?

        I think you along with Agniveer didn’t know anything about sikh religions but just follows a book. All translation and explanation of tuks mentioned by Agniveer and acknowledged by yourself is wrong. If you have to understand Gurbani or any shabad then you must read completely and not by the lines or part which suits you.

        Since you are talking about Vedas, Swami Dayanand and Arya Samaj so I am hopeful if you could reply below questions:

        What was before Swami Dayanand?
        Is Arya Samaj a organisation invented by Swami Dayanand?
        How much old Vedas are?
        Who is a writer of Vedas?
        What was there before Vedas?
        Who you are worshiping in Vedas?
        What is your comments on Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh and Krishna? Since all these are worshiped by Puratin Hindus and Arya Samajis are not worshiping them.

        Since Arya Samajis are performing Sandhya by Chanting Indra. Does it mean they consider Indra as supreme God?

        As per you Sikh Gurus teachings simplified Vedic teaching then why don’t you all get baptized and become Sikhs?

        Let we start with it then I will get back to you with more questions.

        Thanks,

        Gurmeet Singh

        • RamNarayan says

          Dear Gurumeet Singh, Namaste!

          Instead of answering KrishnaRao’s question you are putting similar questions on Aryasmaj. You have no guts to answer the question. We take pride in saying that all of the aryasamaj principles and methods of worship are in line with vedas. What about you?? The answers to yours are here:

          What was before Swami Dayanand? – Everything was there but social and political values were falling down as we were not following vedas. So he asked everybody to follow vedic teachings and spread them as vedas carry all satya vidya. He didn’t edit any vedic hymns or manthras. He simply emphasised the need and necessity of following vedas. He wrote a book satyartha prakash which serves as an introduction to vedic truths. All the manthras and quotes used there are from vedas, upanishads.

          Is Arya Samaj a organisation invented by Swami Dayanand? – correct your grammar. Organizations are started or founded and not invented. Yes he started Aryasamaj.

          How much old Vedas are? – Vedas are as old as the creation.

          What was there before Vedas? – Knowledge was given to risis at the beginging of the creation so veas are the first book of knowledge. Upanishads, Bhagwadgita, Koran, Bible, SGSS and all other books have come later. Again the basic essence of all these later books are vedas and if not they cannot be considered as satya vidya.

          Who you are worshiping in Vedas? – Vedas strictly ask to worship only Paramaatma and none else. There is only one GOD wtihout form. Indra, Vishnu, Shankar, Brahma, Rudra and all other such names are his attributes are names given as per his function.

          What is your comments on Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh and Krishna? – Part of your question is alredy answered above. Sri Rama, Sri Krishna and other historical dignitaries were all great human beings who had set some ideals for future generations to follow and cherish.

          We have repeatedly said these things to you and you still don’t have guts to accept the truth that all the later period books must have been come out of vedic knowledge if they are promoting universal brotherhood, universal love, vasudhaika kutumbakam, importance to all sections of life etc etc….

          Iam sure you still cannot convinced with the answers because you are not open minded and vilfully putting unnecessary questions which are already taught to you.

          Dhanyawad! May param pita parameshwar give strength and courage to accept the truths and reject the falsehood.

        • Jay Arya says

          ill answer before swami dayanand like today there was corruption and falsehood spread by evil Brahmins and hindus that are ignorant and yes arya samaj was created by swami dayanand but he was not say he was leader or the guru of arya samaj and vedas are very old one of the oldest religious texts and before vedas there were many things but no true religious text from god and we are taught to worship one god and brahma,vishnu,shiva are different names of god and one difference is that we believe Krishna was only enlighten human being and we don’t need to become Sikhs but I do admire Sikhism im just against some like islam and Christianity because they do what you just said to try convert others by fooling people arya samaj allows conversion many muslims and Christian became hindus and few Sikhs also became arya samaji like ajit singh and bhagat singh I feel all eastern should unite with zorostrianism and baha faith against those that want to fool people and make religious conflict

        • RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

          Gurmeet, I agree with all sayings of Guru Nanak Dev ji and accept His advise about true religion.Further I respect Guru Granth Sahib whole heartedly and also recite Sukhmani sahib.Also I also have full faith in Adi Granth Ved as true knowledge about God. Is it necessary for me to become Sikh !

    • LeopardBoy says

      Brother First thing u need to know what Sikh means , what Guru means .
      2nd There is no religion known as hinduism , aryan , sanatan dharam etc. Vedas Purans Geeta Upanishads no one talk of any religion , or of being superior than other religion or other community but if u see Quran , its full of there kind of things like Allah is only right god all other are fake . I mean to say u will find tons of things like this thats why from centuries and even today muslims are more hatred due to their terrorism activities .
      but ancient Indian texts , culture doesn’t talk about being superior to others , even if u try to understand the teachings of our 10 Guru , they never said that we have started a new religion which is better than the others , or they never said that there is any religion known as sikhism .
      SIKH purely and simply means disciple / shishya . what it simply implies is shishya of Guru. thats why all 10 gurus were GURUS , because they wanted to teach the society to fight against Mughal terror and to distinguish between ritcheous and unritcheous deeds . to select the right path reject the meaningless rituals believe in Karma , I mean there are tons of good things to learn from our Gurus. Thats what they taught us , but if today we people start a new religion sikhism which has no reference in Guru Granth Sahib ji , then rather than following Guru , we are against their teachings , which always teaches us to consider all as equal soul , every one is son of this nature , earth . we are made of 5 elements respect urself and respect the elements . respect the nature , humanity. respect everything we have around .
      but if we don’t follow a single thing they teaches us then those who use their name to start a new religion , is simply means that they try to gain Fame by using Gurus’ sacrifices in todays society then those people would be the biggest traitors of the society and specially for the GURUS .
      I guess I made my point clear .

    • puneet verma says

      Absolutely right. Sikhs Gurus say that other four books Torah, Gospel, Psalms and Quran were also divine!
      Sikh guru were politically correct. By no means they represented Vedas and infact they even included Quran.

    • says

      It’s 100% false dear…
      Sikhs are only Hindus (Sanatan Dharmis) I believe.
      Sikhism, Jainism or Buddhism are only branches of Sanatan.
      So differentiating them is a sin and I can bet even these leaders like Guro Gobind Singh wanted to strengthen the Sanatan.
      And when you talk of Vedas …they are the most authentic and oldest of all ages.
      So Every religious book has taken or adapted more or less from it .

    • baba ji says

      sorry to whole argumentative friends, land of law,philosophy is always respected because it is only source to improve, feel proud and get inspiration, whole circle of history is very complex ,it is no question of who is right or wrong but every land passed thorough game of power,politics and decandence of morality which is entirely associated with power,army police controled by king, we are living in modern age when we have developed mind with one question with 1000 answer with 10000 more question, life is no question ,answer, it is exploration of divinity and upgrading consciousness towards fullfillment of ego of mind with humility and peaceful way,as per human ethics, but few people manipulated whole philosophy for their kindgom,greed and superiority complex way, islam might be interpreted in positive way but it has heaps of different negative point,whole faith have but enlightenment mind always look for peace,respect dignity to life,poor, weak gender,,we need to upgrade our consciousness level to superconsiciousness to zero consicious when we merge with cosmosic energy and feel always starlike energy,,,religion is always full of dogma,ethics,,now world is changed we are also facing lot of challangefrom wahabi,salafi dogmatic interpretation funded by billion dollars support,lot of religion is like coca cola ,lies told 100 time become truth like paid media tarnishing some one image take minute to implicate in rape case,,vadas has lot of good scientific revelation according to that dark ages when majority of world in stone age, we have come to modern age when whole life is simple energy and positive energy play vital role in life, whole tradition is full of upgrading energy to higher level,,,,

  3. Apolloreach says

    @ Aryavratta: If you have skimmed through Guru Granth Sahib, I am sure you would come across certain sections that seem to criticise or express the limitations of Vedas. But here is what it actually means…

    The usual stick used to beat the Vedas, by using Guru Granth Sahib, is to keep repeating that GGS states that the vedas do not know the mystery and the limits of HIM. Well Vedas themselves state in no uncertain terms the same, in atleast 4 different places in the Rig Veda on the futility of someone trying to comprehend HIM fully. Vedas clearly state this – THAT which is in Time and Space CANNOT comprehend the ONE that is BEYOND time and space. So Gurugranth Sahib does not really contradict the Vedas here.

    GGS also states the same about Torah and Injeel NOT being encompassing enough to know HIM. While I am not here to talk about Abrahamic scriptures, GGS is stating the obvious.
    GGS then says that the humans are bound by the 3 modeas of material nature (please recall Rajas,Tamas and Satva) and the Vedic follower keeps doing his deeds blindly. Well, the abstractness of Vedas is a limitation to the one that is blindly ritualistic. The Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita cut through the ritualistic streak and unearth the true meaning of the Vedas. So, no contradiction there, either.

    There are 5 other criticisms of Vedas (so called) found in GGS. But they repeat the above theme. And GGS also condemns idol worship. Vedas do not condemn idol worship but idol worship is symbolic based on later day schools of Hindu philosophy, espacially the Bhakti Yoga. My piint is that if you eads GGS or for that matter Buddhist scriptures, they probe the Vedas in different angles.

    Buddha left GOD unsaid. He was dead against casteism and mindless rituals. The core of what Buddha taught can be connected back to the Vedas. Given Buddha stopped short of calling out a GOD, his later day followers made that to be VOID or Nothingness. But even this Nothingness can be linked back to the Nasadiya Sukta of Rig Veda.

  4. ashwani says

    there is one simple conclusion any in any religion if ignorance,superstion and evil practices are removed it will be purely vedic and scientific……om shant…jo bole sonihal sat siri akal

    • says

      This is what Swami Dayanand wrote. That if we call all religions’ heads together and ask them to list their common good points – truth, compassion, morality etc – and leave the rest, then what we will get is the Vedic dharma because that is the natural dharma of humans.

      Dharma actually means ‘natural trait’. Thus all that is natural and not based on blind beliefs is Dharma. It is same for all humans.

      Sikhism today is different from core teachings of Sikh gurus. What Sikh gurus taught and did was necessary to support the society during a very pathetic phase of India.

    • Jasvinder says

      Ashwani,
      Aim to reach the One Supreme Lord, which gave us Vedas, SGGS, Bible and other scriptures, not what is vedic or not.
      Everybody is fighting who came from whom and so. All human beings, knowledge came from One Supreme Lord, messages in different time given by different prophets does not mean one came into existence from other. They were revealed when it was necessary.

  5. truthseeker says

    Namaste

    Very well article. We are all thankful of Sikh gurus. All Guru fought for truth. Sikh Guru are role model for us & man of good character.

  6. aryaveer1vedic says

    @Aryavratta
    Sikhism is not what is been practiced by Sikhs these days.Most of the teachings of the ten Gurus are in accordance with Vedas.There are few contradictions but thinking positively Sikhism is very close to its Vedic origin.
    Om

    • satnam singh says

      thisi s ur Misunderstanding, I am saying that I am living how, my Guru’s told me to. Know what ???

    • KalBhairav says

      @umesh:

      ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti agnim yamam matariswanam ahuh.

      Go look it up. Even then the meaning may not be clear to you. You need to possibly meditate on this and *then*, only *then* can you understand the Dharmic mindset and world-view.

      Best of luck.

    • says

      @umesh

      Is not Agniveer defending the culture and dharma bravely like the Sikhs? The essence of Dharma is the values that one lives by and not external symbols. Sikh gurus set benchmarks for their times. We should extend that to our times.

      Agniveer does not say that only Sikhs are Vedics. It says that Sikh gurus helped establish essence of Vedas in their times. That is what Agniveer is doing today. What is the problem in this?

    • says

      Namaste Umesh

      Couldn’t understand your logic BTW! If H acknowledges V and so as S, why should H become S? Could you just explain?

  7. sudha says

    “यस्तन्न वेद किमृचा करिष्यति ” इसका अर्थ अग्निवीर द्वारा किया गया “What can the Richas of Vedas do for a person who does not possess intellect”, ठीक नहीं |

    यहाँ “तम्” ईश्वर के लिये प्रयुक्त है न कि वेदाध्ययन में रत मनुष्य की intellect के लिये |
    और उद्धृत मंत्राश का तात्पर्य यही है कि वेदाध्ययन का प्रमुख लक्ष्य ईश्वर को जानना है, जो उसको भूल कर वेदाध्ययन में रत है उनका ऋचा कल्याण नहीं कर सकती |

    • says

      नमस्ते सुधा जी

      अग्निवीर ने तम का अर्थ intellect नहीं किया बल्कि एक वाक्य का सार दिया है. जो ईश्वर को जानने योग्य आचरण नहीं करता, वह उसे जान नहीं पाता क्योंकि कर्मानुसार उसकी बुद्धि ईश्वर विषय को समझने के लिए परिपक्व और शुद्ध नहीं होती. और जो उसे जान नहीं पाता उसका वेद कुछ नहीं कर सकते.

  8. sudha says

    वज्र जी मुझे आपके आशय से कोई विरोध नहीं है, किंतु जिस मंत्र को उद्धृत किया गया है उसके ठीक ठीक अर्थ से ही प्रयोजन था |

    अब आपने intellect का अर्थ ईश्वर से सम्बन्धित बुद्धि किया है, जबकि सामान्य रूप से intellectual से विद्वान का ही ग्रहण होता है | और भी, बहुत सी जगह स्वामी दयानन्द ने विद्वान का विशेषण धार्मिक लिखा है जिससे यही अभिप्रेत होता है कि ज्ञान का आचरण ही धर्म है | मेरी आपत्ति सिर्फ इसलिये ही थी | यदि intellect में आप ज्ञान और आचरण दोनो को ही सम्मिलित करते हो तो मेरी आपत्ति स्वत: निरस्त समझी जावे|

    और फिर इस मंत्र के अर्थ के लिये सत्यार्थ प्रकाश का तीसरा समुल्लास देखा जा सकता है | यदि अग्निवीर अपने भावार्थ न देकर स्वामी जी का ही अर्थ दे देते तो मेरे जैसो को प्रश्न करने का कोई अवसर ही न रहे |

    • says

      नमस्ते सुधा जी

      मुझे लगता है कि आप जैसी विदुषी को अग्निवीर पर सवाल नहीं लेकिन विधर्मियों को जवाब देने चाहियें जो दिन रात वेद पर कुछ का कुछ लिख कर लोगों को उनके धर्म से दूर कर रहे हैं. आपस में एक दूसरों के विचारों और वेदार्थ सम्बन्धी ज्ञान को अधिक शुद्ध बनाना सबका कर्त्तव्य है परन्तु कर्त्तव्य की इतिश्री केवल कोई त्रुटि दिखा कर नहीं समझ लेनी चाहिए. मैं आपसे अनुरोध करूँगा कि आज जो वेद विरुद्ध प्रचार सब वेद प्रेमियों के हृदय बींध रहा है उस प्रचार का आमूलचूल विनाश करने को आप कृतसंकल्प हों जिस प्रकार अग्निवीर कर रहे हैं.

      धन्यवाद्

      • sudha says

        मैनें केवल त्रुटि ही नहीं दिखायी किन्तु ठीक ठीक समाधान भी दर्शाया है | और, आपका अनुरोध सर माथे पर !

  9. Harshavardhan says

    Nmaskaar ,

    Every true Sikh , Budhh , Jain ,etc. , who had read their literature knows that they are HINDU .
    Let , Here for sikh , who had read SHRI GURUGRANTH SAHIB by heart knows that they are the part of HInduism , Sikh is just a KSHATRIYA panth of Hinduism .

    Budhh (Not Nav-Budhh ) is just a non-vaidic panth of hinduism.

    If any one reads GITA , by heart , he/ she will get to know that all persons in world are HINDU . Just some of them are gone far away from truth and true knowledge .
    Its our job to take them to right path and also to lead our own life on that path.

    remember RSS’s slogan is “Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam”

    Also remember the words of Swatyantraveer Sawarkar “Hinduism and Hindutv are diffrent things.” (i given this preference only because lot of people jumbles between HInduism and Hindutv .)

    thats it…

    Dhanyavaad .

    • satnam singh says

      Kasam Guru Gobind Singh G ki, mera bass chaley to mai RSS ki dhanjean uda du, . Look around what RSS has done to this country, killed and raped 100’s of thousands of muslims, christians nd sikhs. Gujrat key Dangey, Babari mazjid, 1984- Operration BLue star, killing innovent christians in south India. well done RSS,…..if still people follow this freakNN RSS terrorist camps they prove to b a blind fool,…. m sorry to say this, but this is TURE.

      • arya says

        jo sikhon ne 25000 hindu maare unka hisaab kaun dega
        godhra kaand mein 58 hindus were burnt vo nahi yaad tujhe
        rajoana jaise aatankwadi ko zinda shaheed ka khitaab dete ho
        aatankwadi phinbdrawale ko sant kehte ho
        dhikkar hai tum pseudo sikhs par

    • Jasvinder says

      Sikhs are not KSHATRIYA PANTH Of Hinduism. Hinduism has divided people into different caste, but the Gurus told everybody is equal.
      There are not different people to do a work like Brahmin only doing pooja or Khastriya fighting in war. They said a SIKH is a Saint Soldier, he/she has to life life following basic principles and also fought against injustice.
      Regarding all are Hindus, God created everybody, when there was first human in universe, he/she was not HINDU or MUSLIM or any religion, he/she was a human.

      • dogra says

        my caste is human as per hindu scriptures.
        End game is Moksha.

        Now can you explain why the tenth master employed 50 people to translate Ramayana, Mabharata to inspire his followers why?
        Note: not saying Sikhism is part of Hinduism, as Sikhism has its own Holy Book.

        • Jasvinder says

          There are lot of stories made around these kind of topics just to make sure this creates confusion in people and make people believe in them.
          Sikhs were given the message from Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the living soul of Guru Granth Sahib Ji not any human.

          • dogra says

            Jasvinder why did the Tenth Master employ 50 people to translate the Ramayana, Mahabhrata to inspire his followers?

      • sant says

        sikh sahib their is great difference between practical reality and preaching human mind is full of conflict,idea,dnot and do’s one should think about reality of life and practical problems faced by ego, money greed,power greed,,,life is so complex hard to fathom

  10. woodrose says

    After a perusal of ancient scriptures – Vedas, Simratis, Mahabharata, Tantras,
    Puranas and Smarat Sutras one can come to the realisation that they contained an admixture of ingredients which are intrinsically anti-religious; …sikhism and budhism are only religions whose teachings are in proximity with science and modernity and these two religions show some ray of hope ,otherwise future of all others is bleak….!!!!!!!

    1.It had been shown by the authority of “”Indra Vyaj Kauya “”that Indra god was a beef eater and a
    wine lover.If such like fakes made for Veda-models, what shall be missed if these did
    not exist at all?”

    2.As per Simritis the way in which Brahmin fraternity had been allowed libertinism to the extent of allowing as many wives as he may desire from any section of society, etc.,

    “What else was it except gross iniquity, which was contained in these scriptures ?”

    3.The ways permissible to Brahmins to exploit the Shudras and the woman-kind —

    “Are the authors of these Shlokas the Soul Sovereigns and are they worthy of being called Rishis ?”

    4 .the (gods of) Shiva an e. d Shakti cannot be pleased without meat and wine…
    Hindu holy places, particularly that of Jagan Nath at Bhubneshwar (Orissa) where young dames
    have been depicted to be indulging in sexual extravaganza in the style of Kok-Shastra,..

    “What kind of enlightenment would such holy places provide? Can gods dwell in such devilish
    abodes ? If the reply is in the affirmative, are they, then, deserving of the title of ‘gods’?”

    5. the Puranas had portrayed Shiva as an SEX addict and Brahma as sex obsessed, indulging in indepictable orgies.Brahma stole calves of krishna !!!Brahma eulogised Ram ! Was this cheap sycophancy to fall to the lot of Brahma ?????? The mode in which Shivji had been depicted being stark-naked on a sex-hunt, can inch themes be the stuff of a scripture ?”

    6.The ways in which Shiv had been portrayed to be indulging in unmentionable erotic gestures to
    arouse sexual desires in wives of Rishis…thus SHIV deserves to be called a god???

    7.“Gulping the meat of half-a million cows, chewing, licking and sucking sumptuous food by
    Brahmins have been shown in “”Yagyas””, thereby appropriating everything for themselves, have all been projected as pious, …do they deserve???

    • says

      Dear Woodrose,

      I am sorry to know that you have been unfortunate to have perused Vedic texts from bogus sources, if these be your views. If I assume your name to mean “Wood is Rose” and become a laughing stock because I presented a bouquet of wood pieces to someone, can the blame come on you? Or you would say that “Agniveer, you were dumb enough to imply that my name means Wood is Rose. I never claimed so and you should have a minimum commonsense!” Same applies to Vedas.

      Here are pointwise replies to your comment:

      1. There is not one single verse in 4 Vedas that justify killing of animals or beef eating. There are many that condemn these strongly. Refer http://agniveer.com/series/vedas-myths-and-reality/

      2. If Brahmins were allowed many wives, how come Brahmins have historically remained the most monogamous society of the world? Kindly cite which Vedic verse states so. We can cite several that list demerits of polygamy.

      3. Which mantra of Vedas say so? In fact, Brahmins, shudras etc are NOT birth-based but based on education. You seem to not have read even this very article before commenting. We mentioned that Sikh gurus promoted the Vedic message of rejection of birth-based caste system. For more, refer http://agniveer.com/series/caste-system-3/

      4. Which mantra in Vedas say so. Refer http://agniveer.com/3965/soma-alcohol-and-vedas/ that shows that Vedas prohibit consumption of addictive and alcohol. What happens at Jagannath or anywhere else has nothing to do with Vedas.

      5. Stories of Puranas have nothing to do with Vedas. For Dharma, only Vedas are benchmarks. The Shiva of Vedas mean the provider of bliss. Shakti is strength. Brahma is creator. These all are different names of same One single Supreme Lord whom Sikhs also call Onkaar

      6. Same as previous point. You are mixing stories of Puranas with Vedas. Which means that you do not even know what vedas are. Thus all your allegations are devoid of any homework whatsoever.

      7. Again an empty allegation. Seems like coming from works of perverts like Wendy. Kindly cite exact references.

      Admin

      • Singh says

        You should Give the complete information.

        Aad Guru Granth Sahib – page 637
        — “ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਗਉ ਕਿਆ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪਾਹਣੁ ਨੀਰਿ ਪਖਾਲੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਬੂਡਹਿ ਤੇਹਿ ॥
        O brother, you worship gods and goddesses. What can you ask of them and what can they give to you? O brother, the stones/idols you wash with water sink in water (in other words how could these stones help you cross the ocean of worldly temptations)”

        SGGS Page 747, Line 18 – One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they alone will not bring liberation.

        Page 148 – ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥ – The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.

        Page 355 – ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ – The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.

        Page 1237 – ਨਵ ਛਿਅ ਖਟ ਕਾ ਕਰੇ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ ਉਚਰੈ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੋਹਿ ॥ – You may study the nine grammars, the six Shaastras and the six divisions of the Vedas. You may recite the Mahaabhaarata. Even these cannot find the limits of the Lord.

        • Ankur says

          @Singh
          The Veda themselve assert that the Almight Ishwar is beyond anything and everyting and may not be known and this is ascribed by “Neti Neti” (na iti na iti, not this not this) in Yajur-Veda, The same is corroborated again in the Avadhuta Gita w.r.t the nature of the self and conciousness

          तत्त्वमस्यादिवाक्येन स्वात्मा हि प्रतिपादितः ।
          नेति नेति श्रुतिर्ब्रूयादनृतं पाञ्चभौतिकम्

          By such sentences as “That thou art,” our own Self is affirmed. Of that which is untrue and composed of the five elements – the Sruti (veda) says, “Not this, not this.”

          So veda and the GuruGranth Sahib say the same thing.

        • Krishnarao says

          Singh I think you missed the point of the quotes you quoted. Ankur is right here. Vedas themselves say God is beyond the Vedas. God is so amazing God is beyond everything. Not just the Vedas, but the SGGS and everything else. God is so great no book can completely state what God is. That is the true greatness of God. And no Follower of the Vedas will ever demean God by saying any book can explain God. Because God is ineffable.

    • woodrose says

      Varikha kapayee ravete saputre ad susnukhe ghast inder.
      Ukhan: Priyan kachirkran havi i vish vasmandinder utar. (13)

      Ukhno hi me panch dashan sakan pachant vishant utahan
      adimepeev idubhai kukhiprint me vishusmat indar utar. (14)
      (Rigveda, Mandal 10, Sukat 86, Mantra 13, 14)

      BrikhYA Kapai said, “O ! Resourceful Indirani ! having handsome son your worthy husband eat the meat of he-buffalo which is delicious and is relished by him and
      you cook that meat.”

      Indirani’s reply was, “That is why my worthy husband Dev Raj Inder is superior to other men in
      prowess, intelligence and looks.” (13)

      Inder said, “My wife cooks the meat of 15-20 he-buffalos for me which I consume. That is why I
      am like the he-buffalo, sturdy, healthy and impressive. Both the flanks of my abdomen remain
      full with meat and wine.”

      Again, Indirani’s reply was, “That is why my worthy husband Dev Raj Inder is superior to other
      men in prowess intelligence and looks.” (14)

      In the light of the above cited shlokas held that dev raj inder was a MEAT EATER and wine addict.

      Meat eating and wine taking could never even be dreamed of by them since nothing can be farther from godlike ways than such like indulgences. … But 1 wonder, why at all such mantras be there in so called vedas???
      How do such like mantras benefit humans? Of course these can inculcate beast-like proclivities.

      • says

        Kindly perform the readings suggested. You seem to be simply quoting from some unknown source without even bothering to check if it makes any sense.

        It seems that your study of Hinduism and Vedas is extremely sketchy and based on views of people who were equally unread.

        Whatever excerpts you have provided from Gurbani only assert the theme of the article – that sikh gurus were trying to establish essence of Vedas and reject later-era distortions.

        We agree that many Sikh scholars have tried hard to showcase Sikhism as distinct. But when we come to writings of Sikh Gurus (and not Sikh scholars in general), we see that they were trying to establish essence of Vedic dharma.

    • Vik says

      @Woodrose

      brother, from your posts it seems like you never even read one single article of this site. Articles are far, you have not even read the title of this site. This site is called “Agniveer – Vision of the Vedas”. This means this site only focuses on Vedas. All your allegations come from Puranas whom we do not even consider divine. On top of that, we only respect some hindu scriptures like Upanishads and Geetha if and ONLY IF they drive on the railway of Vedas. As soon as they diverge from Vedic teachings, we simply reject and condemn them. On top of that, we only consider Vedic translations by Swami Dayanand to be good, not perverts like Wendy or frauds like Naik, Griffith etc.

      Now, after reading my comments above, more than half of your questions must have disappeard because they were so stupid and did not deserve any responses from this site. Only bring Vedas related questions that too based on authentic interpretations of Vedas, not the ones by perverts.

      From the hatred of your comments, you seem to be a sikh. Now tell me brother, I have seen many sikhs getting drunk, and fighting others for petty matters, so can I go ahead and conclude that SGGS sanctions such nonsense?

      I have seen Sikh priests in Gurudwaras getting involved in fights with other priests, now can I say this is all part of sikhism???

      Just because a large number of hindus do stupid and anti Vedic things does not imply that their doings are sanctioned in Vedas. Hinduism is probabably the biggest target which has gone against its own foundation by following stupidities such as caste systems and gender discrimination.

      We equally condemn those hindus as much as terrrorists.

    • SDC says

      So, as you said “sikhism and budhism are only religions whose teachings are in proximity with science and modernity and these two religions show some ray of hope ,otherwise future of all others is bleak.”

      Let us put this to a litmus test right now.

      No casteism in sikhism and buddhism, right!

      Okay, here goes my brief study on these two religions.

      Don’t the Sikhs refer to themselves as Jat Sikhs, Mazabhi Sikhs, Ramgarhia Sikhs. Jat Sikhs and profess surnames like Chauhan (Jagjit Singh Chauhan), Dhillon (Ganga Singh Dhillon), Arora (Jagjit Singh Arora), Oberoi, Saini, etc., that display caste backgrounds. Ramgarhias and Mazhabis have generally no surnames as Sikh tradition recommends. And how old is sikhism, 400 years old literally. So, a religion, which is relatively in its infancy so to say has already been infected by this virus, and imagine hinduism being over at least if not more 5000 years old. Now, let me cite you an example of this to makes things crystal clear to you. You might have heard of the Austria Gurudwara firing incident. If not, then let me give you a link to enlighten you in this regard. BTW, there is not much to be written as this is a miniscule community, and generally in such cases, aberrations are hard to come by. Even then, we get to witness such cases.

      http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/30_injured_as_groups_clash_in_vienna_gurudwara.php

      Coming to Buddhism, I am amazed that you have not heard of the various sects of buddhism. Your knowledge seems to be deficient in this regard. Please see the link below and get enlightened. By the way, have you heard of the vajrayana sect of buddhism, also known as tantric buddhism. They indulge in idol worship of tibetan gods and goddesses. What is your take on this?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Buddhism

      • Jasvinder says

        SDC,
        These caste came into picture when hindus started to penetrate the religion for their benefits. One example to this is, Hindus have there elder boy as sikh and rest of there child as Hindus to save their family (wives/sister) from Muslims who used to take with them, to create fear against Muslims. Because of sikh they were able to control these kind of happenings.
        Over a period of time, this become less and future generations did not know the real purpose why elder son was a sikh.
        There were other hidden agendas of RSS due to which lot of people due to ignorance still think Sikhs are Hindus, which is not.

        • Krishnarao says

          “These caste came into picture when hindus started to penetrate the religion for their benefits.”

          – Please don’t blame Hindus for caste system either. many Hindus claim it was the British that propagate caste system in India among Hindus. And yes, they did their part, but everyone needs to take ownership for their wrong doing. Caste system would have never got into any of these religions if the followers of those religions stood up against it. Caste is against the Vedas. Vedas does not even speak of caste. it is an Portuguese word. Don’t blame Hindus or anyone else. It are the follower of the religion that accepted it.

          • Jasvinder says

            This question was answered by yourself.Guru Nanak Dev Ji was the first Sikh.
            You did not understand the message given by Sikh Gurus.
            The message is same given by all the prophets at different times which came from One Supreme Lord. Vedas, Bible or any other scripture, not contained in only Vedas.

          • krishnarao says

            Jasvinder,

            Vedas does not support prophet or prophethood. Vedas even consider that a form of prejudice. Vedas are clear that anyone can be enlightened by God by just meditating on God. No one person is more special than anyone else. Everyone has the potential to achieve this. They just have to give themselves to God and meditate on him. That is all. Even having prophets, godmen, son of god, holy ghosts, superman, x-men, or any other nonsense will not get you to God. Using them are all forms of idol worship. Vedas support the individual human to become incredible. They don’t need some superhuman, prophet, godman, superman, x-man, or any of that garbage. JUST NEED GOD ONLY.

    • says

      What a shame wood rose,your copied from somehwere who is not considered and authoriyy and pasting anything here.Totally worng and baseless stuff.

  11. woodrose says

    GURBANI CONCERNING HINDUISM

    “Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God’s invaluable Name.” (Ang 265)

    “You worship gods and goddesses, but you do not know the Supreme Lord God. Says Kabeer, you have not remembered the Lord who has no ancestors; you are clinging to your corrupt ways.” (Ang 332)

    “The Pandits, the religious scholars, the teachers and astrologers, and those who endlessly read the Puraanas, do not know what is within; God is hidden deep within them. || 4 ||” (Ang 419)

    “The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||2||” Ang 556

    “Why worship gods and goddesses, O Siblings of Destiny? What can we ask of them? What can they give us? The stone gods are washed with water, O Siblings of Destiny, but they just sink in the water.” (Ang 637)

    “The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them.” (Ang 875)

    “I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other.” (Ang 1136)

    “I do not perform HINDU worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.” (Ang 1136)

    “I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.” (Ang 1136)

    “I have abandoned both the Pandits, the Hindu religious scholars, and the Mullahs, the Muslim priests. ||1||Pause|| I weave and weave, and wear what I weave. Where egotism does not exist, there I sing God’s Praises. ||2|| Whatever the Pandits and Mullahs have written, I reject; I do not accept any of it. ||3||” (Ang 1158)

    “They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labor. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service.” (Ang 1160)

    “The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain.” (Ang 1264)

    If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? According to the Hindus, the Lord’s Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1|| (Ang 1349)

    “I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet.” (Guru Gobind Singh)

    “Mahadev called himself eternal; Vishnu called himself Supreme, Brahma called himself lord; none of them realized the Transcendent Lord. All those sages created by Hari, They propagated their own Simritis, the way by which one can enshrine the Lotus feet of Hari in mind, they did not adopt that way of meditation. Brahma produced the four Vedas but those who love the Lotus-feet of Hari rest outside the attachment of the Vedas. Prophet Mohammad was created by the Lord. He was made sovereign of Arabia. He also created a new Dharma and the circumcised (Muslims) became supreme. All were forced to meditate on his name (Mohammad Rasul). Nobody remembered the Name of the True Lord. Then I (Hari) adopted you as my Son so that you may start the Khalsa Panth. Everywhere you spread the Dharma and instruct the public not to practice chicanery. What the Hari says I (Gobind Singh) utter that, and do not subject myself to anybody’s influence. We do not worship stones, neither adopt various garbs. We do not keep matted hair nor wear ear rings. We do not subject ourselves to anyone’s influence. We perform whatever God ordains. I have come for this in the world. The Lord sent (me) to uphold Dharma. All the Avtars (Prophets) that have been before proclaimed themselves only.” ( Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

    “Some say the Muslim rosary, others meditate by Hindu Mala. Some read Puranas, others read Quran. Both waste themselves in the love of arguments. Lord is distinct from both.” ( Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

    “Ever since I have grasped Your feet, I have not thought of anybody else.
    I do not accept the doctrines enunciated by various faiths, believing in RAM, Rahim, PURANAS and Qoran.
    The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas mention different concepts but I do not subscribe to any of them.
    O God, the Sword-bearer (of justice)! With Your Grace, all that has been uttered by me has been done under Your command.

    Dohra!
    I have shunned every door and have entered Your door
    Please hold my arm and keep my honour, Gobind is ever Your slave.” ( Guru Gobind Singh)

    AND KHALSA THE PUREST AMONG ALL

    Day and night they meditate on the Light manifest. Accept the One, and they do not contemplate anyone else. In complete love they keep the form. They never keep faith in fasts, graves, Mausoleums, pilgrimages, ritual charity, false compassion, austerity, false constraints. Except the one, the Lord, they do not recognize anyone. When the Light illuminates the Mind, only then Khalsa is known, distinct and pure. (33 Swaiyas GURU GOBIND SINGH)

  12. woodrose says

    UNIQUENESS OF SIKHISM !!!!!!!

    There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world.
    The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent.
    The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca.
    Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus.
    The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God.
    Since they have forgotten the Vedas and the Katebas, worldly greed and devil have led them astray.
    Truth hidden from both; the brahmins and maulvis kill one another by their animosities.
    Neither sect shall find liberation from transmigration. (Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1)

    Hindus and Moslems have their two ways. Moslems call it Mazhab and Hindus call it Varna. Hindus call themselves Gurus and Moslems Pirs. Hindus call their followers Shishya and Moslems theirs Murid (But both trap themselves with falsehood). Hindus worship (God) as Rama and Moslems call Him Rahim, and they indulge in ego. Moslems call pilgrimage to Mecca Ziarat and Hindus adore the Ganges and Varanasi. Moslems fast and call it Rozas, Hindus call it Vart. They pray by prostrating on the ground. But nothing is equal to the Gursikh who abandons his ego, ‘I am ness’. (Bhai Gurdas Var 38 Pauri 9)

    Sunni, Shia, Rafzi sects of the Moslems pleases many. Mulhids (Atheists) do not believe in God and are lost in doubt. Christians and followers of Moses are lost in doubt and ego. Europeans, Armenians and Egyptians are too proud. Kalandars who wear black are not worth two shells. None is equal the Gursikh who has sold himself to the Guru. (Bhai Gurdas Var 38 Pauri 11)

    Hindus read and explain the Vedas; the Moslems recite their books. Moslems like the name Khuda and Hindus call Him Parmeshwar. Moslems read their Kalma (Quran) and practice circumcision, while Hindus wear Janeau (sacred thread) and apply Tilak.
    Mecca is sacred to Moslems and Varanasi to Hindus. Moslems practice Rozas (and say the prayer); Hindus call the fast Vart and adore Hari. The four religions (sects) of the Moslems, four Varnas, and six systems give different education. Moslems Pirs covet their Murids (disciples) and the Hindus also covet their followers. Hindus believe in Ten Avatars but the Moslems believe in one Rehman. In fact they are pushing and pulling (fighting) for no profit. (Bhai Gurdas Var 39, Pauri 10)

    Those who are addicted to the congregation serve themselves of the cup of His love and describe the indescribable. They break the rosary and do not meditate any more by counting, because for them Ram and Rahim are the same. They consider the world a game of chess. They cross the barrier of Maya; they take the cup of His love and enter in themselves. They pass the three stages and enter the fourth (sublime) state. For them Waheguru and Khuda are the same and do not fight over words. They merge in the word and make manifest the true word. They recognize the Eternal as the True King and love the Truth. (Bhai Gurdas Var 39, Pauri II)

    We do not accept the authority of. The Vedas, neither that of Simritis and Puranas. We worship neither Bhairva, nor Ganesha. We recognize neither Tithis nor Omens, nor days. Neither Rahu, Ketu, Shani, Shukar, Sun nor Moon. We do not believe a bit in Sandhya, Sutak, Caste, Varna, Jantar, Mantar, Fasting, Homa or Shradh. Disciples of the Tenth Master, Khalsa Panth is distinct. Really ignorant is he who calls Khalsa as Hindu. (Kabit Bhai Gurdas Ji)

    We acknowledge One, Eternal, Primal Lord. The whole expanse has originated from Him. Forgetting the Creator we do not worship any mortal (created one). Guru Granth is our faith, our support. We have abandoned all distinction of caste. We are friends of all and love all. Love of all is like that of Lotus in water. Distinct is the Khalsa of Guru Nanak. (Kabit Bhai Gurdas Ji)

  13. truthseeker says

    @woodrose

    thanks brother great comments
    No problem if you do not accept even Veda. Because Veda already in your heart in seems from your good comments. As you have mention in your comments this is Vedic Gyan.

  14. sandy says

    A book “A History of World Socieities–5th Edition, Volume 1″ from world’s history class ,by McKay, Hill, Buckler, Ebrey.
    In it, there is an interesting piece on the Islamic conquest of India, and how the Hindu rulers/high castes responed to the Muslims.

    “Most Indians looked on the Muslim conquerers as a new ruling caste, capable of governing and taxing them but otherwise peripheral to their lives.” -Chapter 11, p.205

    My point in bringing this up is that the HINDUS have an age-old habit of telling everyone (SIKHS, JAINs) they are Hindu, even to MUSLIMS . This way it becomes easier for them to rule the people.
    Can you imagine the response when the Muslims were told that they are actually Hindus? Yeah, they massacared many Hindus. Their response was very heavy-handed and bloody for being called Hindu. The book goes on the tell of how the invaders destroyed the Idol-worshippers.

    So, RSS is basically those same people, but under a new name. They have been doing this for thousands of years to many religions, and they will continue to to this long after we are gone. Inside India, many “scholars” and textbooks consider Buddhism,Sikhism and Jainism to be a sect of Hinduism. However, in addition to their unique enlightenments/revelations, Jainism ,sikhismand Buddhism were created as an outright rejection of Hinduism. Always remember that! Other faiths deserve autonomous respect, Remember that they are not Hindus, or a Hindu sect, but are a distinct faith,

    stop blasphemy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

    We can fight the RSS weapon by realising that we are not alone, and that this assimilation has been tried before for thousands of years. Look at the examples.

    • says

      Namaste Sandy

      Should I believe in SGGS or Volume 1 of fifth edition of A History of World Societies written by Christians about India and Indians?

      Have you something substantial to present here and refute the quotes from SGGS itself regarding Vedas given in the article?

      Have you read the article in first place?

      Blasphemy? Where?

      Stop copying Jihadis my friend. Why so much hatred for Hindus?

      Dont be puppets of Pakistan sponsored Babbar Khalsa. They are filling your minds with venom which their Pakistani masters dictate them to do. Love our Gurus, and the Vedas which were loved by Gurus.

      Sat Shri Akaal

    • SDC says

      I at least do not seek assimilation if there are such hardened stances out there. If I had my say, I would outright reject any such half measures. Hinduism (Sanatan Dharma) stands on its own legs and needs no crutches. The premise that you present holds no water. Or else, how do you explain the dogged resistance to the muslim rulers. And, the allegation that you thrust on the hindu community to trying to label others as hindu for facilitation of their rule again is baseless. Nothing concrete to suggest or uncover such underhand motives. It is a figment of imagination to say the least of some hindu-hater.

      Well, talking of assimilation, do take note of the attempts made by jehadis in pakistan (of whom you seem to be very conspicuously silent). Providing you a link to help you understand better.

      http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-02-22/news/28419930_1_aurakzai-agency-taliban-jiziya-or-religious-tax

      BTW, RSS is no pushover that needs to even take notice of such trivialities. Here is a link that might give you some heartburn (on not being able to portray in the RSS in bad light).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh#Protection_of_Sikhs_during_the_1984_anti-Sikh_riots

  15. woodrose says

    Guru Nanak has referred to mythological stories allegorically, metaphorically, and symbolically to
    explain his philosophy. Whenever, Guru Nanak used the mythological work or ancient philosophy in his Bani, he never meant that he believes in that philosophy.It appears that many theologians have not
    understood Nanakian philosophy in its real perspective that is why there is misinterpretation of
    Gurbani and misrepresentation of Sikhism. By doing so the theologians have encouraged
    some Sikh and non-Sikh scholars to portray Sikhism either as syncretism (Islam & Hinduism) or a sect of
    Hinduism.

    The word ‘Ved’ (Veda) has been commonly used in the Gurbani. There are four Vedas in Hinduism and these have also been referred to a number of times in Gurbani. The word ‘Ved’ in Gurbani is interpreted as one of the four sacred books in Hinduism by many theologians. However one has to be careful to interpret this word keeping in view in which context it has been used. In some cases it means
    Vedas (Sacred Texts of Hindus) while in other cases it means as ‘wisdom’ or ‘knowledge’. This meaning is also accepted by many Hindu scholars. Guru Nanak has used ‘Veda’ meaning ‘wisdom’ and/or ‘knowledge’ in his Bani to symbolize only not to follow.

    aaharan matt ved hathiyar !!!
    Wisdom should be anvil, and knowledge should bethe tools.
    AGGS, Jap 38, p 8.

    Many theologians quote, “charrey ved hoye sacheyar”, to show that Guru Nanak has accepted that the four Vedas are true by ignoring the next sentence, “parhe gunney tinn chaar vichaar”, but after reading them critically one finds four different doctrines. It means the philosophy in one Veda is not in agreement with that of the other three Vedas.Therefore, Guru Nanak is not preaching that Vedas are true. He explains that the Vedas are considered to contain the truth but critical analysis indicates that the Vedas contain different doctrines full of various types of mantras, sacrifices, life styles of
    various deities and different philosophies. Different dummy gods with different names appeared in different times of the four Vedas. It means consistency in philosophy is lacking. Guru Nanak says that it is not by repeating the names of these gods but by developing humility (neech sadaae) and serving the humanity one can get salvation*
    According to Guru Nanak’s philosophy it is only the development of humility and service to the
    humanity, which would lead towards the path of attaining salvation and not by chanting these age old books that have lost their meaning !!!!!

    You may stand and recite the Shaastras and the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny, but these are just worldly actions. Filth cannot be washed away by such hypocrisy, O Siblings of Destiny; the filth of corruption and sin is within you. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 635)

    O Pandit, O religious scholar, your filth shall not be erased, even if you read the Vedas for four ages. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 647)

    One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)

    The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329)

    The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920)

    Vedas, Shastras, Simritis all say many things but I do not accept anyone of those. (, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

    • says

      1. Any reasons why Guru Nanak did not believe in Vedas? If one states that those reasons no more hold because Vedas were then misrepresented and in reality Vedas do not contain such objectionable things, would your argument still hold? If yes, this means Sikh Gurus were irrational and dogmatic as per you.

      2. When more than 50 examples of Gurus praising Vedas has been given and they include specific reference to Rig, Sama, Yajur, Atharva Veda, then your views only show that you are trying to act separatist without knowing why, only for selfish reasons.

      3. Do you think Master Tara Singh was not a Sikh that he started the Vishwa Hindu Parishad? Or you are a bigger scholar than Master Tara Singh?

      4. Have you read Tara Singh’s books. He has specifically acknowledged Vedas as divine texts and as foundation of Sikhism.

      5. Do you know about Sardar Arjun Singh, grandfather of Bhagat Singh? He was head of both Sikh community and Arya Samaj in his locality and used to do daily havan as well. Do you mean to say he was not Sikh?

      Your views show that you are not a Sikh at all. You seem to be an outsider trying to create differences. Agniveer is a true Sikh trying to honor and shower his commitment to cause of great Sikh gurus.

      Raja

      • Indian Agnostic says

        Namaste Brother Raja

        The separatists are still operational outside India.They have created such fake fault-lines between sikhs and other dharmic communities to garner moral support and funds from ignorant NRIs.

        Unfortunately . many of these misguided idiots have no qualms in aligning even with the Jihadis.hat an insult to the sacrifice of the Revered Gurus !

      • woodrose says

        let me tell you the reality of Master Tara Singh alias Nanak Chand Malhotra
        The facts prove he was an under cover agent just go ask the VHP Vishwa Hindu Parishad who he helped form as a founder,alongside other quotes of him calling Sikhs Hindus,this man was a traitor and a very sly individual who desrves nothing .

        The Betrayal of the Sikh Nation, in the late 19th Century, begins with the betrayal of a person named Nanak Chand, the son of Gopichand, born in 1885 in the west Punjab, who later became known in the Sikh circles as ‘Master Tara Singh’. Master Tara Singh went against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib, relating to the definition of the Hindus in Asa di // (Mathe Tikka Terrh Dhotti Kakhai Hath Chhurri Jagat Kasai, -Guru Granth Sahib) and elsewhere that the ‘Sikhs are Sikhs, none else but the Sikhs’ (Guru Granth Sahib, the Holy Scripture of Sikhs). However, Master Tara Singh, at the age of 68-year-old, a Panth Ratan of Khalsa Panth, said all against the teachings of the Sikh’ faith’s founder, Baba Guru Nanak Sahib, and the Sikhs’ Holy scripture Guru Granth Sahib. Was it not the autocracy and dictatorship of Master Tara Singh, a panth rattan, and traitor of the Sikh Nation. He said that “Hindus are a tree and the Sikhs are a branch of it.” What a false and misleading statement and against the very principles of the Guru Khalsa PANTH.
        .
        Gandhi, Nehru and Patel planted their agent Nanak Chand Malhotra disguised as Master Tara Singh amongst the sikhs, Master Tara Singh who on divide of the country in 1947 defied Guru Gobind Singh’s command of Sikh sovereignty -”Suno Nand Lal Eh Saaj, Pargat Karon Apna Raaj”- Guru Gobind Singh-bestowed upon Sikhs in 1708 in Nanded, and cast his lot with India and doomed the fate of the Sikh nation. In his speeches and interactions amongst Hindu gatherings he maliciously asserted Sikhs to be part of Hindu religion. Record reveals that he was a close confidant of Golwalkar, a radical hindu leader. It was the same Nanak Chand Malhotra alias Master Tara Singh who in 1956 became one of the founders of the most radical Hindu organizations called Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP). despicable and dishonest psyche.

        • says

          Now you come out clear. You hate even Master Tara Singh, who organized the SGPC, because of one single reason – that you want to be a separatist. You have not ever read the Vedas but you want to demean them. Even if it is proven to you that Vedas do not have caste system, superstition, beef eating and other nuisances, still you will refuse to listen. The reason is that you just want to be a separatist.

          You would ignore those verses of SGGS that hail Vedas as allegory. And cite those verses that condemn Vedas. When you would be explained that condemnation was not for Vedas but for wrong notions regarding Vedas that were prevalent, you would turn blind. When proofs would be shown that Vedas contain none of those reasons that would make anyone hate Vedas, you would turn even blinder. Only because you want to be separatist.

          You can give not even one single evidence of why Sikhism is distinct from Vedic Dharma. You would not read any verse from SGGS that talks of ancient Hindu lores. You would abuse Master Tara Singh – all because you simply want to be a separatist, even though you have no logic, no reason, no study, no homework to support this, except a vague hatred breeding out of your own lack of study and misconceptions.

          Now, regardless of what you think, we also have right to express our own views and share our respect for the great Sikh Gurus. And also for Master Tara Singh. We are not interested in what would have been his political motivation. But instead we would focus on content of his views and actions that are extremely logical. If not, kindly refute his views with logic.

          Not that I am great fan of Gandhi and Nehru. But you could provide not a single logic or sensible reason why Sikh gurus should be considered against Vedas. I don’t give a damn to current breed of Sikhs who believe in caste system and indulge in vices or would rather support Pakistan.

          Also, by your logic, perhaps even Maharaja Ranjit Singh was a fake Sikh? After all he had great faith in Hindu ways. For me, he is a great role model.

          Agniveer, this is a wonderful article. And woodrose is just a separatist brimming with hatred against everyone else. Better we ignore such hatred minds.

          Raja

        • roger says

          @woodrose

          and do you know so called most radical groups saved many sikh lives in 84 riots?

          Khuswant Singh a known RSS hater said that Vajpayee had even risked his own life trying to save Sikhs during the 1984 anti-Sikh violence in Delhi. Another Sikh intellectual Ranbir Singh Sekhon said that RSS saved many Sikhs from massacre in Delhi by mobs led by Congress(I) politicians in November 1984.

          get a life…

    • says

      Namaste woodrose

      Do you know Gurus better than me? Prove it. I state that our Gurus were followers of Vedas and they have written so in SGGS as listed in this article clearly. Tell me what different teachings our Gurus spread which were not there in Vedas? Tell me one single thing for which you think Vedas are not worth following.

      You seem to have copyright over our Gurus. Leave this idiocy aside. Dont teach us what Gurus meant by Vedas when they say Vedas are four. I know they all meant the same Vedas with names Rig, Yaju, Sam, Atahrva. I love all those Gurus who taught the lesson of humanity in the difficult times and filled courage in the ruined hearts of Hindus who were facing the onslaught of Arab tribals for centuries. Dont divide the people just because your Babbar Khalsa chief wants it. Babbar Khalsa and other separatists enjoy sitting in the lap of Pakistan which caused millions of Hindu Sikhs to kill and migrate away from their ancestral land. How many Sikh girls were raped by the fanatics by Jihadis of Pakistan, do you know that? Condemn the separatists first who stand by those today who are the descendants of the same ghazis who brutally killed our Gurus Arjan and Teg Bahadur.

      I ask you, was Guru Nanak a Sikh? What is the definition of Sikh? How do you know that you are a Sikh but I am not?

  16. Totagoto says

    Brutal Hindu Persecution and destruction of Temples in Manikganj,BANGLADESH
    Again news of Hindu persecution in the district of Manikganj has made Bangladeshi Hindus to think if this is a seculer country at all. This time the members of Bangladesh Awami League, the ruling party which dweclares itself seculer and pro India have burnt down temples to ground. The truth is muslims can never be seculer and they are bound to slaughter the kafirs as long as they follow the great religion Islam.

    MARCH 18,2011: Miscreants vandalised idols of a Hindu temple located at Rishipara of Uttar Sreebari village in Ghior pazila in Manikganjdistrict on Thursday evening. The criminals also clubbed a youth. Hewas admitted to local Uthuli Health Complex. Md. Azizur Rahman,Officer-in-Charge (OC) of Ghior Police Station said, some youths fromneighbouring Karzana village went to the temple to attend the Kali Pujaand Namsangkirton function on Saturday. ‘The youths become angry as theorganisers did not give them food and they returned from the temple,the OC said.Later the youths led by Sentu, Akter, Rezaul, Selim, Joni, Labu,Saikat, Arif and Kalu beat up Binod Monirishi, son of Bimal Monirishi,resident of Rishipara during a cricket match on the temple premises onThursday evening. They also damaged the idols of the temple, theInspector said.
    Map of Manikganj District
    A case has been filed in this connection and police will take necessary action immediately, he added.
    Manikganj in map of Bangladesh

    APRIL 7,2011:
    Activistsof Jubo League and Shwechchhasebak League allegedly burnt down a templeand vandalised some houses of the Hindu community in Ukiara village ofManikganj on Tuesday.
    The attackers also beat up a reporter of anational daily when he went to cover the incident, our correspondent inManikganj reported.
    Biplob Chakrabarty, Manikganj correspondent of the Daily Shamokal, has taken first aid at Manikganj Sadar Hospital.
    “Iwas under attack at around 10:45am. The attackers confined me for anhour and snatched away my mobile handset and camera,” Biplob said.
    The Shamokal correspondent claimed that the destruction was caused by the men loyal to Jubo League and Shwechchhasebak League.
    “Mysource told me that the AL men wanted to took possession of a vestedproperty, owned by some late Shyamacharan Mandal in the area,” Biplobsaid.
    Gosai Chandra Mandal, a relative of Shyamacharan, and hisbrother Sharat Mandal have been living in the house for the last 80years. The temple was also constructed within the property, Gosai toldour correspondent.
    “After the death of Shyamacharan, the housewas recorded as vested property. So, Sharat and me submitted anapplication to the deputy commissioner of Manikganj seeking ownershipof the land,” Gosai said.
    Being rejected by the deputycommissioner’s office, the duo filed a writ on January 20 with theManikganj District and Sessions Judges’ Court demanding temporary stayorder.
    Following the writ, the court passed an order asking thedeputy commissioner, assistant deputy commissioner (revenue), upazilanirbahi officer, assistant commissioner (land) and union land officerto explain why the brothers should be evicted from the place.
    “DistrictJubo League member Jafar and Firoj with 12 to14 others came to thehouse at around 11:00am Tuesday and threatened us to leave the houseimmediately,” Gosai said.
    As soon as the brothers refused to do so, the AL wings’ men launched the attack on them, he added.

    http://hindurevolution.blogspot.com/2011/04/brutal-hindu-persecution-and.html

  17. Vinay says

    whoever claims him/herself to be the sole representative of SIkhism and claims that it’s far too different from Hinduism…. please go to gurudwara today and try to listen to the words of ardaas…

    Prithame Bhagauti simar ke Guru naanal liye dhyaay…..

    While praying to the Almighty, we state… First of all, i remind myself of Bhagwati and then i bow to Sri Guru nanak ji..

    isn’t it ????

    I’ve been going to gurudwaras even before learning to speak.. and is there any such person who claims it to be wrong? i still visit Gurudwaras and believe that Sri Guru granth Sahib ji is the illuminary to me showing the path to live my life. And it has never made a single clash to my thinkings and i am still proud of having guidance of Gurus as i feel Vedas are too tough for a layman like me to understand in one go.

    Those who feel its the SOLE OBJECTIVE OF THEIR LIFE to create differences amongst Hindus and sikhs should understand that they’ll have to edit the writings of SGGS for that… AND THEY BETTER DON’T DARE TRY IT!!!! coz if they do so, i don’t find myself able to express in words, what would happen to them. SO better for them. cook their political ambitions in some other matters. It’s a sensitive matter, dont try to play or you’ll burn your hands coz it would not be only a single part who’ll be after you, but it would be all Hindus and all Sikhs after you!

    • Sikh says

      Mr Vinay,
      Just to clarify,
      According to Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji “Bhagauti” means talwaar, Kirpaan, Siri sahib….
      Pritham Bhagauti Simar kae.,… Means firstly remembering the Shastar which has supported me in fighting against evil….
      Not some bhagwati….

  18. learner to faith says

    brilliant article !!

    since the time i came in contact of agniveer site and the vedic wisom , i had already started to feel that sikhism best represents the essence of vedas. i being a resident of punjab have many sikh friends, and we often talk over the topic of similarities in ancient vedic hinduism and sikhism. thanks to this article that now i woul be able to even converse better with them.

    such articles promote friendliness and must be promoted so as to debunk the seperatists.

  19. Dogra says

    Good Article.
    Agniveer has not said Sikhism is Hinduism, they are different religions, but there commonalities as stated, as Sanatan Dharma teaches to practice humanity, ie only grouping is human, as divine light resides in all, but of course we each carry oput different functions and there is dignity of labour for all functions
    Prime directive of gita is Karma yoga or selfless service or sewa.
    Of course there will be disimilarities as well

  20. ABSingh says

    Sikhs suffer the worst kind of Identity crisis as they cannot co-relate to the muslims against whom they actually formed the defence, nor they can co-relate to the most filthy idolaters alive on earth – Hindus.

    British distinguished the sikhs from the Coward, ugly race of Hindus and provided the much deserved Identity to sikhism. Actual credit of giving a Identity to Sikhs goes to their Last Guru .Paradoxically enough he was himself a Hindu convert and thus he tried to mix some Hindu folklore into Sikhism, which is un-acceptable to the original Sikhs. And in fact, Sikhs had been the best and the bravest of British troops and no doubt the credit of India’s present existence goes to Sikh soldiers earlier against Mughal invaders and right now against Pakistan.

    If you see in truth, without Sikh culture (or punjabi culture) there is nothing attractive to India itself. Sikhs control the best of well deserved ranks in Army, the most productive state of India and Punjabi culture is the USP of Bollywood (Other than the ridiculous tamil movies off course). Punjabis (Sikh and Muslims) own the Indian film Industry – and this is an un-deniable fact.

    Lions and sheep cannot drink the water from same pond peacefully forever because its humiliating to the Identity of Lions. Only, separate state of Khalistan can give Sikhs the unique Identity, and much deserved credit which they own.

    • R.B. Singh says

      A B Singh

      To align with Islam you are insulting the last Sikh Guru? Shame on you!

      Where do you want to have the Sikh-Muslim get together? Gurudwara Sheesh Ganj ?

    • says

      Terrorist ABSingh

      1. This coward ugly race of Hindus produced all Gurus starting from Guru Nanak to Guru Govind Singh. Got it moron?

      2. ————Actual credit of giving a Identity to Sikhs goes to their Last Guru .Paradoxically enough he was himself a Hindu convert and thus he tried to mix some Hindu folklore into Sikhism———–

      So whats the conclusion ? Was Guru Govind good for Sikhism or bad? Ask this question in front of any Guru loving Hindu or Sikh, he will tell you what it means to defame Guru like this. And BTW who is called Sikh? Was Guru Nanak a Sikh?

      ———–If you see in truth, without Sikh culture (or punjabi culture)———–

      Sikh is not synonym of Punjabi.

      ————-Punjabis (Sikh and Muslims) own the Indian film Industry – and this is an un-deniable fact.————-

      1. Now your Jihadi face is exposed which you tried to hide behind Sikh disguise. You count Sikhs as well as Muslims as Punjabi but not Hindus!

      2. Though I believe acting in filth like bollywood is a matter of shame rather than pride for anyone. But if this is your criterion of being best, name me one Sikh actor and then I will name 10 Hindu Punjabi actors.

      ————Lions and sheep cannot drink the water from same pond peacefully forever because its humiliating to the Identity of Lions.————

      That is why you and your Jihadi masterminds are warned to stay away from India. Roaring of Indian lions wet the pants of your Jihadi fathers many times, in 1948, 1965, 1971, and 1999.

      ————- Only, separate state of Khalistan can give Sikhs the unique Identity, and much deserved credit which they own.————

      Now Pakistani Jihadi! Get lost from here..

    • Khalsa says

      oye teri himmat kiddan hoyi guru gobind singh ji de baare edan kehn di. Musalmaan na tan kadi sikhan naal sigge na kadi hon ge. oo katil ne sadde guruan de. Punjab hindu ate sikh dova da hai kise teesre da nhi

      hun bhaag ja athon.

      • hardcorehindu says

        @ Khalsa

        Namaste. aapne bahut sahi farmaaya – punjaab sikho aur hinduo ka hain..kissi dusre ka nahin. hindu au sikho ki community bahut peaceful hai…jab tak yeh musalman beech main nahin aate. yeh musalman sar ki taklif hain.

    • hardcorehindu says

      ABSingh

      Son of a gun….which cowards are you talking about? and dont claim that Punjab is Sikh dominated. Punjab has many Hindus also. And you want to take sides with muslims? Please do so. I guess you deserve the treatment that Muslims have been giving u for the past several decades,

      And how different are you from Muslims anyways…Terrorist…

    • identity crisis says

      @AB singh
      Kabhi dilli gaye ho? go to gurudwara sheeshganj in chandni chowk or gurudwara rakabganj. Then please tell me history of the 9th guru of sikhism.

      Bloody idiot, when did you become muslim lover? Go learn sikh history first.
      Removed your turban? As long as there is one single muslim alive in this world a sikh will never cut his hair. You shame your religion and ancestors.

    • SDC says

      Just a query, will the Khalistan that you propose also include the Pakistani Punjab, where there are no sikhs now?

      Well, the britishers also did not consider the bengalis as a martial race, and let me remind you that a large number of revolutionaries were bengalis who fought the british tooth and nail. Again, bravery is not the fiefdom of any particular community, sex, or religion.

      India is too vast to be confined to Punjab itself. It is a subcontinent, my dear friend.

      Coming to point of who will be living in Punjab (or for that matter, India), I feel anybody who works for its development should be allowed to live and prosper. No discrimination is to be made on grounds of region, religion, caste, color, sex, etc.

  21. KalBhairav says

    @ABSingh:

    Great job there doing adhominems on just about everyone non-Sikh. Let’s see, you didnt leave out Muslims, filthy idolators – Hindus, non-Sikh Armymen and just for extra serving you also dished out hatred against Tamilians. Well done lion!

    To top it all off you want Khalistan. OK. So here goes buddy: I will support Khalistan only if you lend your support for a separate homeland for Sikhs in Afghanistan and Pakistan, for Coptic Christians in Egypt, for Shias in Saudi Arabia and Sunnis in Iraq…Game buddy?

  22. says

    What are you hijdus proud of? Selling jodhabais and your mothers and sisters to Mughals. Or ridiculus worshiping everything you see animals, bricks, shiit, everything. Or are you proud of ugly black biharis and bhaiyaas of UP chewing tobacco and spitting here and there. Or are you proud of filthy caste system of hinduism. Even in modern world hindus cannot rid themselves of racist hindu ideology of castism and oppression of lower casts.

    Sikh gurus were not Hindu. Whosoever baptized into Khalsa is now a part of Sikhsim. The ideology of Muslims and Hinduism – both are not accepted in Sikhism and discarded by it’s founder Guru Nanak dev ji. He clearly declared that ‘ neither he is a Hindu nor a Muslim. So what do you want to prove?

    And by the way who is responsible to make us separatists? Is it not your this govt itself? When we met with injustice, discrimination, unsafe, exploited and attack on religious places compelled us to demand for a Sikh homeland. This govt has lost it’s trust and we can not rely on govt of India.

    I can understand your fear being exposed your lies of RSS. Chaddies working for the RSS only make comments like this, get your facts right. Remember 1984 ? Go and give an account of how many Sikhs as hijdus Killed. Get your facts straight. Read an unbiased report on the attack by Jouyce Pettigrew on 1984. Dont listen to hearsay. Jokers

    The BSturd Indian governmet is run by the stupid RSS. What did you expect after all that Sikhs have put into the community Sikhs were promised time and time again yet they all got treated like second class citizenz by the RSS Hindu fudus. You expect Sikhs to take this BS lying down, dont be sillly. Look at your Stuupid Indian government history its a fact that they dont care about their own people

    The high court, run by extreme RSS. The whole media around the world is run by the Illuminati etc. Watch Hindu terrorist L.K. Advani .And see these hindu terrorists in UK.

    Singh as surname is only for the Khalsa, you are not, you seem to be confused. There is a difference between Hindu and Sikhs. You must be blind not to notice. I have read the Guru Granth Sahib Ji so I know what I am talking about in regards to the Sikh religion. Hindus believe in Raksha Bhandan Sikhs do not, Hindus worship idol statues, Sikhs do not, Hindus beloieve in the caste system, True Sikhs do not there are many fake Sikhs, on being yourself. Hindus believe in drinking the urine of a cow, Sikhs do not the list goes on……………. I am NOT disrepecting Hindus, but you for sure disrespecting Sikhism

    The cow sacred in Hinduism for two reasons and it is not considered sacred but is mentioned in the Sikh scriptures as ‘Dharam Bel’, to show that if hindus believe that a bull is holding up the weight of the earth then God is holding up the weight of the bull.

    Perhaps not the supremacy of the Vedas, Gita and other Hindu scriptures but their mention is as such that all these scriptures sing God’s praises.“Even the Vedas say that the created Universe is boundless. The eighteen Purans and the four books (the Torah, Zend-Avesta, the Bible and the Quran) declare with one voice, that there is but One Ever lasting Reality, the Divine Essence and the whole Universe is His manifestation.”

    It is obvious that Sikhism has the same amount of commanality with Hinduism and Islam, and was actually a movement against both :

    Dev bhev na jaan-hoo jih bed aur kateb||
    The gods and the Scriptures of Hindus and Muslims do not know Thy secret.

    Hindav koina Turkaa rah(i) bai|| Bhinn bhinn ghar ghar mat(i) gaih hoi|| Ek ek ke panth na chal bai|| Ek ek kibaat uthal bai||7||
    There will neither be a true Hindu nor a true Muslim; there will be diverse in every home;

    Alah abhekh sooo Puraan au Kuraan ooo, ek hoo saroop sabhai ek hoo banaao hai||16||86||

    ‘Allah of Muslims and Abhekh (Guiseless) of Hindus are the same, the Puranas of Hindus and the holy Quran of the Muslims depict the same reality; all have been created in the image of the same Lord and have the same formation.’

    Jo kooo jaae turakkan mai maih deen ke deen tise gaih lyaavai|| aapach(i) beech ganai kartaa kartaar ko bhed(u) na kooo bataavai||27||

    ‘Who going amongst the Muslims, speaks about their religious faith, consider him only showing off the greatness of his learning and does not talk about the Mystery of that Creator Lord’

    char varan char majhehaban jag vich hindhoo musalamanae||

    ‘There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world.’

    To the above quote a part of a shabad comes to mind ‘…Char varan ik varan karaya, Guru Nanak Jag maha pataya’- All the four castes have become one through the coming of Guru Nanak into this world.

    eikana vakhath khuaeeahi eikanha pooja jae ||

    ‘The Muslims have lost their five times of daily prayer, and the Hindus have lost their worship as well.’

    vaedh kathaeb kuraan n akhar jaaniaa||

    ‘The Vedas, katebas and the ‘Qur’an (i.e. all the scriptures of world) also know not even a single word about Him.’

    • SDC says

      Who are we proud of? Well, we are proud of Maharana Pratap, Rana Sanga, Lachit Borphukan, Maharani Laxmi Bai, Shivaji, etc. to name a few.

      You must be one bloody racist pig, and hence you use the terms such as “black biharis” and “UP bhaiyaas” How about your brethren who are sharabis and kababis, you have nothing to say about them.

      You talk of discrimination in a state where the head of the state is a Sikh himself, the planning commission is headed by a sikh, and many important government offices are headed by sikhs. So, you enjoy a first-class status in Pakistan, I guess.

      Well, if talk of caste system, let me tell it has already percolated the sikh fold. Refer to the links I posted in my replies to sandy and woodrose.

      Present government being run by the RSS!!! This is the biggest joke I came across in this portal. RSS is communal and what about Khalistan Commando Force, Khalistan Liberation Force, etc. And who was Bhindranwale, a freedom fighter?

      “The Vedas, katebas and the ‘Qur’an (i.e. all the scriptures of world) also know not even a single word about Him.” So, who knows? And please elaborate on this subject so that I get a whiff of what your standing is in this regard?

    • ident6ity crisis says

      @Ajmer khalsa
      Please tell me the history of Guru Tegh bahadur the 9th guru of sikhism and then come and spew hatred on hindus and Indian govt, incidentally a secular congress govt not hindu govt. The schism between hinduism and sikhism is a political ploy by pseudo seculars and congress and not by the hindu right wing which incidentally considers sikhs, buddhists and jains as part of hindu/Indian/Indic diaspora.
      Blame congress dont blame the average hindu.

  23. Agnostic says

    Did you said “evangelized to sikhism”? Who created evangelism? Answer me one thing:- How can I convert to the original “Sikhism” created by “Guru Nanak Dev Ji” itself? He criticized baseless rituals of Hinduism but did he said I’m hereby creating a new religion called “Sikkhism” and I’m the first Sikh like prophet MOMO? Why is he called a Guru? Guru is a sanskrit word, stop using it. What is the evangelical procedure? Don’t tell me your latest inventions I want the original procedure of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Also tell me what’s the percentage of Muslim Converts to Sikhism?

    Even Arya samaj rejects the baseless rituals and birth based racist caste system, does this make them anti-Hindu? Against both(Islam & Hinduism) is understood, but right now you are trying to make it against Hinduism specifically which is paradoxical. A hindu never considers a Sikh a separate creed but rather a pure and brave sect of Hinduism – Its okay you can deny it. I still don’t know what you will achieve by taking out a small country establishing a taliban style regime over there.

    Do you think imaginary heaven & hell of Islam is the purpose of life in Sikhism? According to Sikhism, when a Human dies, yamdoot or minions of death come and take the soul to the court of Dharam Rai. This is a very painful journey in which the soul of the manmukh (one without the Satguru) encounters much pain and hardship. Once in the court of Dharam Rai, his account of deeds is read to him and he cannot deny anything. He cries that he did not take advantage of human life and become one with Akaal(God). He is then given his sentence. This can be a certain amount of time in heaven or hell to receive the fruits of his deeds and then after that time, he is sent back into the cycle of births and deaths. Heaven and Hell are not permanent places. They are not where a Sikh wishes to go. They are simply transitory places where one receives either pleasure or pain.

    —-Dont listen to hearsay. Jokers—
    Why don’t you come out in public against Hindus and file a case against the coward f00ls. Hindus are easy kickbags, go ahead and produce your part of “ACTUAL TRUTH” in front of the world. Better at UN itself with the help of your Paki & Arab brothers.

    RSS has played an honorable role in maintaining Hindu-Sikh unity before and after the murder of Indira Gandhi in Delhi and in other places” “It was the Congress (I) leaders who instigated mobs in 1984 and got more than 3000 people killed. I must give due credit to RSS and the BJP for showing courage and protecting helpless Sikhs during those difficult days. No less a person than Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself intervened at a couple of places to help poor taxi drivers.
    Sikh intellectual and author of ‘A History of the Sikhs’, Khushwant Singh, credits members of the RSS with helping and protecting Sikhs who were being targeted by members of the Congress(I) political party during the 1984 Anti-Sikh Riots.

    LOL but get some breath of logic and sanity about that illuminati hypothesis created by canadian athiests. LMAO.

    “In their hatred towards Hinduism, there is a new propaganda going on in the West. Anything related to spiritual sciences is marked as a product of “Illuminati” who is virtually supposed to control “everything” around the world. The problem is- everything related to constructive psychology/spirituality indirectly ends up as a product of Hinduism.Branding it as “Illuminati” they see spirituality as a threat & controlling force behind every big organization.”

    Congress is an outright Anti-India, Anti-Hindu, Minority appeasing gang of traitors and what they did in 1984 was abhorrent and has been regretted by entire Hindu community till now. But this still doesn’t justify khalistani separatism with support of pakistan.

    And just for the heck of it, if you so insist, I will in-fact support separate lands for Khalistani and Kashmiri separatists. Both are all the same tribal separatists and deserve to be separated from all civilized masses to prevent further propagation of their lethal sick, narrow-minded, criminal ideology….. And before doing that, all the women and children who believe in democratic and secular living must be saved from their clutches. Cancerous cells must be kicked out from the body at once.

    Stop plagiarizing Hinduism like Islamic negative logic against Judaism & Christianity. We respect Gurus and their pure teachings leading to enlightenment rather than bondage to filthy pleasures and filthy Heavens. But if you gonna abuse our faith, we’ll stand up for our pride. And rituals are there in Puraans and not in Vedas. That’s why all the gurus criticized them like Arya Samaj also criticizes them. You cannot abuse the entire philosophy on the basis of few fake purans. Even Sikhism believe that carrot & stick ideology of heavens & hells is transient and purpose of life for soul is union to the God/WaheGuru/Prime Consciousness.

  24. Ohm Tat Sat. Sat Sri Akal. says

    * Taha hum adhik tapasya sadhi
    Mahakal kalika aradhi
    ~ Guru Govind Singh
    (There I worshipped and did penance to seek Kali.)
    * Ram katha jug jug atal
    Sab koi bhakhat net Suragbas Raghuver kara
    Sagri puri samet Jo en Katha sune aur gaave
    Dukh pap tah nikat na aave
    ~ Guru Govind Singh
    (The story of Ram is immortal and everyone should read it. Ram went to heaven along with the whole city. Whoever listens to or sings His story, will be free of sin and sorrow.)
    * Kahaiya Hinduan daro na ab tum
    Im likho pathon dil sain Guru Nanak ki gadi par
    Ab hain Tegh Bahadur Unko jo Muhummadi kar lihoon
    To ham hain sab sadar Arya Dharma rakhak pragatiyo hain
    ~ Guru Tegh Bahadur
    (Hindus, do not fear, Guru Tegh Bahadur is Guru Nanak’s successor. If Muslims bother you, I’ll take care of them. For I am the protector of Hinduism.)
    – Show quoted text –
    * Tin te sun Siri Tegh Bahadur
    Dharam nibaahan bikhe Bahadur Uttar bhaniyo, dharam hum Hindu
    Atipriya ko kin karen nikandu Lok parlok ubhaya sukhani
    Aan napahant yahi samani Mat mileen murakh mat loi
    Ise tayage pramar soi Hindu dharam rakhe jag mahin
    Tumre kare bin se it nahin
    ~ Guru Tegh Bahadur’s reply to Aurangzeb’s ordering him to embrace Islam.
    (In response, Shri Tegh Bahadur says, My religion is Hindu and how can I abandon what is so dear to me? This religion helps you in this world and that, and only a fool would abandon it. God himself is the protector of this religion and no one can destroy it.)

    * Sakal jagat main Khalsa Panth gaje
    Jage dharam Hindu sakal bhand bhaje
    ~ Guru Govind Singh
    (The Khalsa sect will roar around the world. Hinduism will awaken, its enemies will flee.)

    • dogra says

      On August 17, 1983, Bhindranwale asked Sikh youth to buy a motorcycle and a revolver and threatened to kill 5,000 Hindus in an hour if the police delayed the minibus he had sent to fetch Amrik Singh who had just been released from police custody.59

      During a speech on September 20, 1983, Bhindranwale stated clearly that he would ‘embrace’ Sikhs who exacted revenge upon those who were guilty of torturing, killing, or humiliating Sikhs. He said, ‘Getting away from there is your job, protecting you here [in the Darbar Sahib complex] is mine.’60

      On November 17, 1983, Bhindranwale bluntly demanded ‘that all Hindus should leave Punjab.’61

      During a public speech delivered on May 24, 1984 at the Darbar Sahib complex, Bhindranwale openly admitted his complicity in the gruesome beheading of Surinder Singh Chinda for his role in the elimination of Bhindranwale’s leading hit man, Surinder Singh Sodhi.62

  25. dogra says

    Well Mr AK, hinduism sanatan dharma teaches to practice humanity and the racist caste system has no sanctification in vdeas as is clear since divinde resides in all as stated by Lord Krishna:
    In Bhagawad Gita, sloka 20, Chapter 10, Lord Krishna says,
    In sloka (X.20)
    I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings. All beings have, therefore to be treated alike
    well???
    Then we have Karma Yoga-selfless service

    Now there is social evil of caste, this is not in vedas, there is no higher nor lower, or how can people gain moksha tell me MR AK

  26. Dipankar says

    All sikh guru are enlightened. He knows truth , and saying clearly. No name of god,god was omnipresent, gods no define in words. Ek onkar satnam, guru nanak pure philosophy of vedanta. All sikh gurus avatara of janak kings.

  27. Vinay says

    AB SINGH ( SINGH should not be a part of your name thought)

    Read my earlier post and then go through the responses to your post..

    DIDN’T I WARN ALL YOU BLOODY FANATICS?? NOW SUFFER!!!

  28. says

    गुरु नानक और गुरुओं दी बानी

    गुरु नानक के प्रकाश उत्सव पर प्रकाशित

    डॉ विवेक आर्य

    आज गुरु नानक जी का प्रकाश उत्सव हैं. हर साल की भांति सिख समाज गुरु नानक के प्रकाश उत्सव पर गुरुद्वारा जाते हैं, शब्द कीर्तन करते हैं, लंगर छकते हैं, नगर कीर्तन निकालते हैं. चारों तरफ हर्ष और उल्लास का माहौल होता हैं.

    एक जिज्ञासु के मन में प्रश्न आया की हम सिख गुरु नानक जी का प्रकाश उत्सव क्यूँ बनाते हैं?

    एक विद्वान ने उत्तर दिया की गुरु नानक और अन्य गुरु साहिबान ने अपने उपदेशों के द्वारा हमारा जो उपकार किया हैं हम उनके सम्मान के प्रतीक रूप में उन्हें स्मरण करने के लिए उनका प्रकाश उत्सव बनाते हैं.

    जिज्ञासु ने पुछा इसका अर्थ यह हुआ की क्या हम गुरु नानक के प्रकाश उत्सव पर उनके उपदेशों को स्मरण कर उन्हें अपने जीवन में उतारे तभी उनका प्रकाश उत्सव बनाना हमारे लिए यथार्थ होगा.

    विद्वान ने उत्तर दिया आपका आशय बिलकुल सही हैं , किसी भी महापुरुष के जीवन से, उनके उपदेशों से प्रेरणा लेना ही उसके प्रति सही सम्मान दिखाना हैं.

    जिज्ञासु ने कहा गुरु नानक जी महाराज के उपदेशों से हमें क्या शिक्षा मिलती हैं.

    विद्वान ने कुछ गंभीर होते हुए कहाँ की मुख्य रूप से तो गुरु नानक जी महाराज एवं अन्य सिख गुरुओं का उद्दश्य हिन्दू समाज में समय के साथ जो बुराइयाँ आ गयी थी उन उनको दूर करना था और हिन्दू समाज के सामने मतान्ध इस्लामिक आक्रमण का सामना करने के लिए तैयार करना था. गुरु नानक ने इसे अपने उपदेशों से सामाजिक बुराइयों के विरुद्ध जन चेतना का प्रचार कर इस कार्य को अपने हाथ में लिया जबकि गुरु गोविन्द सिंह ने क्षात्र धर्म का पालन करते हुए सबसे पहले मनोवैज्ञानिक रूप से क्षीण हुई हिन्दू जाति में शक्ति का प्रचार किया फिर अपनी तलवार के जौहर दिखा कर उसे जिहादी पागलपन के खिलाफ संगठित कर उसका सामना करना सिखाया.

    गुरु साहिबान के मुख्य मुख्य उपदेश इस प्रकार हैं

    १. हिन्दू समाज से छुआछुत अर्थात जातिवाद का नाश होना चाहिए

    २. मूर्ति पूजा आदि अन्धविश्वास और पाखंड का नाश होना चाहिए

    ३. धुम्रपान, मासांहार आदि नशों से सभी दूर रहे

    ४. देश, जाति और धर्म पर आने वाले संकटों का सभी संगठित होकर मुकाबला करे

    गुरु नानक के काल में हिन्दू समाज की शक्ति छुआछुत की वीभत्स प्रथा से टुकड़े टुकड़े होकर अत्यंत क्षीण हो गयी थी…

    • says

      जिसके कारण कोई भी विदेशी आक्रमंता हम पर आसानी से आक्रमण कर विजय प्राप्त कर लेता था. सिख गुरुओं ने इस बीमारी को मिटाने के लिए हरसक प्रयास किया. गुरु गोविन्द सिंह के पञ्च प्यारों में तो सवर्णों के साथ साथ शुद्र वर्ण के भी लोग शामिल थे. हिन्दू समाज की इस बुराई पर विजय पाकर ही गुरु साहिबान ने समाज को संगठित रूप देकर उसे सिख अर्थात शिष्य का नाम दिया था. आज सिख समाज फिर उसी बुराई से लिप्त हो गया हैं. हिन्दू समाज तो अपनी उसी सड़ी गली छुआछुत की मानसिकता को मान ही रहा हैं की सिख समाज में भी स्वर्ण और मजहबी अर्थात दलित सिख , रविदासिया सिख आदि जैसे अनेक मत उत्पन्न हो गए जिनके गुरुद्वारा, जिनके ग्रंथी, जिनके शमशान घाट अलग अलग हैं. उनमें सिख होते हुए भी रोटी बेटी का सम्बन्ध नहीं हैं. मेरा उनसे एक प्रश्न यही हैं जब सभी सिख एक ओमकार ईश्वर को मानते हैं, दस गुरु साहिबान के उपदेश और एक ही गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब को मानते हैं तो फिर जातिवाद के लिए उनमें भेदभाव होना अत्यंत शर्मनाक बात हैं. इसी जातिवाद के चलते पंजाब में अनेक स्थानों पर मजहबी सिख ईसाई बनकर चर्च की शोभा बड़ा रहे हैं. वे हमारे ही भाई थे जोकि हमसे बिछुड़ कर हमसे दूर चले गए. आज उन्हें वापस अपने साथ मिलाने की आवश्यकता हैं और यह तभी हो सकता हैं जब हम गुरु साहिबान की बात माने अर्थात छुआछुत नाम की इस बीमारी को सदा सदा के लिए ख़त्म कर दे.

      अन्धविश्वास, मूर्ति पूजा आदि व्यर्थ के प्रलापों में पड़कर हिन्दू समाज न केवल अध्यात्मिक उन्नति को खो चूका था बल्कि उसके कारण उसका सारा सामर्थ्य, उसके सारे संसाधन इन्ही में ही ख़त्म हो जाते थे. अगर सोमनाथ के मंदिर में टनों सोने को इकठ्ठा करने के स्थान पर उस धन को क्षात्र शक्ति को बढ़ाने में व्यय करते तो न केवल उससे शत्रुयों का विनाश कर देते बल्कि हिन्दू जाति का इतिहास भी कलंकित होने से बच जाता.अगर वीर शिवाजी को क्षत्रिय घोषित करने में उन्हें उस समय के पञ्च करोड़ के लगभग न खर्चना पड़ता तो उस धन से मुगलों का भारत से अस्तित्व ही ख़त्म हो सकता था.

      सिख गुरु साहिबान ने हिंदुयों की इस कमजोरी को पहचान लिया था इसलिए उन्होंने व्यर्थ के अंधविश्वास पाखंड से मुक्ति दिलाकर देश जाति और धर्म के लिया कार्य करने का उपदेश दिया था. परन्तु आज सिख संगत फिर से उसी राह पर चल पड़ी हैं.

      सिख लेखक डॉ महीप सिंह के अनुसार गुरुद्वारा में जाकर केवल गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब…

      • says

        सिख लेखक डॉ महीप सिंह के अनुसार गुरुद्वारा में जाकर केवल गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब के आगे शीश नवाने से कुछ भी नहीं होगा.जब तक गुरु साहिबान की शिक्षा को जीवन में नहीं उतारा जायेगा तब तक शीश नवाना केवल मूर्ति पूजा के सामान अन्धविश्वास हैं. आज सिख समाज हिंदुयों की भांति गुरुद्वारों पर सोने की परत चढाने , हर वर्ष मार्बल लगाने रुपी अंधविश्वास में ही सबसे ज्यादा धन का व्यय कर रहा हैं. देश, धर्म और जाति के लिए सिख नौजवानों को सिख गुरुयों की भांति तैयार करना उसका मुख्य उद्देश्य होना चाहिए.

        आज नशे ने सिख समाज के नौजवानों को अन्दर से खोखला कर दिया हैं. गुरु साहिबान ने स्पष्ट रूप से धुम्रपान, मांसाहार आदि के लिए मना किया हैं जिसका अर्थ हैं की शराब, अफीम, चरस, सुल्फा, बुखी आदि तमाम नशे का निषेध हैं क्यूंकि नशे से न केवल शरीर खोखला हो जाता हैं बल्कि उसके साथ साथ मनुष्य की बुद्धि भी भ्रष्ट हो जाती हैं और ऐसा व्यक्ति समाज के लिए कल्याणकारी नहीं अपितु विनाशकारी बन जाता हैं. उस काल में कहीं गयी यह बात आज भी कितनी सार्थक और प्रभावशाली हैं. आज सिख समाज के लिए यह सबसे बड़े चिंता का विषय भी बन चूका हैं की उसके नौजवान पतन के मार्ग पर जा रहे हैं. ऐसी शारीरिक और मानसिक रूप से बीमार कौम धर्म, देश और जाति का भला क्या ही भला करेगी?

        गुरु साहिबान के काल में इस्लामिक जिहाद का नारा बुलंद करके हमारे देश पर अनेक आक्रमण हुए. गुरु नानक ने तो खुले शब्दों में बाबर द्वारा ढाए गए कहर की आलोचना करी हैं. गुरुओं ने तो अपने प्राण हँसते हँसते हिन्दू जाति की रक्षा में बलिदान तक कर दिए थे. गुरु गोविन्द सिंह के दो पुत्रों को तो इस्लाम न कबूल करने पर जिन्दा चिनवा दिया गया था. हजारों सिखों ने गुरु साहिबान से प्रेरणा पाकर अपना शीश इस भारत माँ के बलिवेदी पर भेंट कर दिया पर इस्लाम कबूल करने से अथवा झुकने से मना कर दिया. उनकी शहादत से प्रेरणा पाकर अनेक हिंदुयों ने मुसलमानों के अत्याचार के विरुद्ध संघर्ष कर अपनी हिन्दू जाति के अस्तित्व की रक्षा करी. आज फिर से वही जिहादी मानसिकता ने हमारे देश और जाति पर हमला बोल दिया हैं. वे न केवल हमारी लड़कियों को लव जिहाद के नाम पर फुसला कर ले जाते हैं बल्कि लड़कों को भी इस्लाम की शिक्षाओं से प्रभावित कर अपने म़त में शामिल करने का प्रयास करते हैं. आतंकवाद रुपी काल राक्षस किसी से छुपा नहीं हैं. उसको संरक्षण देने वाले भी यहीं पर ही…

        • says

          गो रक्षा का नारा गुरु साहिबान ने बुलंद किया था. गो रक्षा के लिए गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में अनेक उपदेश मिलते हैं.आज फिर से गो माता बूचड़खानों में हिंदुयों की नाक के नीचे से लेकर जाई जा रही हैं पर सब सो रहे हैं. सभी को अपने मतलब की ही पड़ी हैं.जब माता का ही अस्तित्व नहीं रहेगा तो फिर हमारा अस्तित्व क्या ही बचेगा.आज गुरु साहिबान की शिक्षा को तन, मन, धन से मानने की आवश्यकता हैं. दिखावे मात्र से कुछ नहीं होगा.

          जिज्ञासु -आज गुरु नानक देव के प्रकाश उत्सव पर आपने गुरु साहिबान के उपदेशों को अत्यंत सरल रूप प्रस्तुत किया जिनकी आज के दूषित वातावरण में कितनी आवश्यकता हैं यह बताकर आपने सबका भला किया हैं. आपका अत्यंत धन्यवाद.

          आशा हैं पाठक इन्हें पढ़कर उनका अनुसरण करेगे तभी हिन्दू जाति का कल्याण होगा.

  29. Vinay Arya says

    Dear Agniveerji
    Swami Dayanand in his book Satyarth Prakash has written that Guru Nanak did not know Sanskrit.Because he has made such verses in which Guru nanak’s and sanskrit languages are both mixed.It is so because he tried to make fool the other people who did not know Sanskrit.Even by hearing one word of Sanskrit the people thought that this is a man of character.

    If Sikhs are according to the Vedas or the guru nanak dev is according to the Vedas then why did he not talk of Aryas,why did he not tried to propagate the Sanskrit,why did he write his books in his own new language,why did he not think that Vedas emanated from the God so they should make their bhashyas in Sanskrit only,.

    So,Guru Nanak instead of propagating the old religion became a new prphet.If he was good then why did he not propagate the Vedas why did he wrote Guru granth Sahib why not the bhshyas of Vedic Shastras in Sanskrit only.

    It is required to answer these questions before making any decision.I am not to criticise anyone.So,please don’t feel bad and just answer the questions.If you would start doing the same things then I won’t reply.Because that is never going to stop.

    • says

      Namaste

      It is extremely unfortunate that views of Satyarth Prakash are interpreted in extremely distorted form by many. First of all Swami Dayanand makes it very clear that intentions of Guru Nanak was very noble. Second, Swami Dayanand’s criticism is at an intellectual level and not personal. This is just like refutations and evaluations that happen in scientific journals. Einstein debunked Bohr’s theory and gave valid reasons. Bohr debunked Einstein’s and gave valid reasons. This is way of the scientists. It is less competent people who take all this as a condemnation.

      Whatever Swami Dayanand wrote about Guru Nanak is right from perspective of an unmatched Vedic scholar. Problem happens when we start assuming these views as absolute truths regardless of our own level. Thus I may be weak in English and a Dickens has every reason to question my language. But if a 3 year old toddler who barely can remember the alphabets states the same view because he heard Dickens questioning my English, that would at best be a joke to publish on Facebook.

      Now coming to some of the questions of why did Guru Nanak not promote Sanskrit or Vedas, answer is simple. Vedas were not at all available for common masses to even glance at in that era, forget about studying the same. Unless you belong to some very specific sub-castes of Brahmins, you would be kicked out of any gurukul teaching even mugging of Vedas. Go to Varanasi even today, and rarely can even an ordinary Brahmin get admission in such Vedic gurukuls. They have even high caste and low caste Brahmins!

      And yes, it is a bitter but true fact that whatever was being propagated in Sanskrit in those eras was either casteist anti-woman superstitious literature or porn works of likes of Kalidas et al. So what Guru Nanak did in that era was to best of his capabilities and constraints in that era.

      Swami Dayanand is also right that had Guru Nanak got an opportunity to study Vedas, he would have strengthened Vedic Dharma directly. But this is also true that it took several more centuries of butcherings and rapes, then British Rule, then influx of slightly more liberal social norms, better technology to provide opportunity to Swami Dayanand to study Vedas and present them in the form we know today. Even Swami Dayanand had to put unusual hardships to procure Vedas as foolish casteists would prefer to keep them hidden from world or even their own intellect. So tough was it for Swami Dayanand to get access to Vedic wisdom that he had once even contemplated suicide. Thankfully that was the last time he ever thought negative, and hence you and me are in a position to enlighten the world with Vedic wisdom.

      I ask a simple question. Why don’t you write your posts, comments and articles in Vedic Sanskrit? Why don’t even Sanskrit scholars of today write in Sanskrit of Vedas. Even their Sanskrit starts only from Ashtadhyayi era which is hardly 2000 years old. Reason is simple – there is no easy access to mastery of Vedic Sanskrit today, even in this era of digitization. And to expect someone to master it 600 years ago would only be naive. Further to condemn a great personality for doing whatever he could best do given the times, situations and constraints, would be even more criminal.

      On contrary, people like me are amazed at views of Sikh Gurus, who followed their conscience – inner voice – and worked for implementation of Vedas in practice. By studying their lives, one realizes why Yajurveda says that Vedas lie within each of us.

      This does not mean that we should not study Vedas. Indeed we should do to speed up the process. We should surely study works of ex-scientists to be masters of Physics even though we can ourselves deduce everything. But to condemn a Galileo because he did not use Einstein’s relativistic adjustments in his calculations would be heights of immaturity.

      I don’t know what decision you want to make. But if you really want to understand what you intend to condemn, do a small experiment. Throw away all books you have. Simply get Kaumudi grammar book and show how much Vedas you can master. You are not allowed to purchase any printed text, discuss on internet, search online, or take help of any non-casteist Vedic scholar etc. These conditions would still be hundred times easier than in era of Nanak. And you have already studied Satyarth Prakash, I presume. But let us see where you progress in 6 months, and we can discuss it at that point.

      Dhanyavad

      • Vinay Arya says

        Dear Agniveerji
        You say that situations at the time of Nanak were different from that of today.There were no real meaning of the Vedas.So it also means that Guru Nanak Dev said that false Vedas are right.Does it not mean this?Because he did not know real meaning.So he knew false meaning.So he said false meaning to be the right.So he sad false knowledge to be the right.So how can he be a vaidik?The vaidiks are those who know the absolute truth.
        Shri Agniveerji
        I am not making any decision.But I am saying that before we consider Nanak to be a vaidik we should try to think somewhat on those questions.

        If I do not get the proper material then is it your mistake?No.It is my mistake.Because I did not try to get the proper material.So it means that Guru Nanak Dev did not try hard to get the proper material.

        Without Guru there cannot be knowledge in any one.Try it.Leave a child in a jungle away from enything.He would be as simple as an animal.So it is Guru who enlightens us.Nobody has got any enlightenment from themselves.So if we consider that Guru Nanak had no real Guru then it means that he was not really enlightened.He got false education.I am not saying this.You say that Nanak did not have proper material.It clearly indicates that the knowledge of Guru Nanak was false.So it means that Guru Nanak is false Guru.

        Why does one become a false Guru?Why does a man become a bad one?It is due to their ignorance.It is due to lack of the Vedic knowledge.Nobody wants to do sins if he knows that it is a sin.So if Nanak did not have the proper knowledge then it means that he was one of those pakhandis.I am emphasising this point.A man become a false Guru if he lacks knowledge.If one does not lack knowledge he cannot become a false Guru.
        Also “a false Guru is always a false one whatever may be the condition”.
        Guru Nanak did not have the proper raw material.It means that he couldn’t become great.Great are those who speak the “sacrd truth which is universal”.

        • says

          @Vinay Arya

          ——–There were no real meaning of the Vedas.——-

          No. People did not have access to Vedas.

          ——-it also means that Guru Nanak Dev said that false Vedas are right.——

          If I have not met Vinay Arya or am not a friend of Vinay Arya, that does not mean I beat Vinay Arya :)

          ——-Does it not mean this?——

          No, see above.

          ——-Because he did not know real meaning. So he knew false meaning.——

          If you dont have matter, it does not mean you have anti matter! BTW you can understand this only if you know Physics. In simple words, if you dont have water to drink, it does not mean that you drink the piss.

          ——– how can he be a vaidik?——

          He was Vaidik because he reformed the society in difficult situations where foreign invaders could attack anytime anywhere and people did not have time to read Vedas Sangopaang as prescribed by Swami Dayanand.

          ——–The vaidiks are those who know the absolute truth.——-

          By this Logic even Swami Dayanand was ANTI Vaidik because he himself accepted that only Eeshvar knows the ultimate truth. Read first edition of Satyarth Prakash and then second (I know you have read none yet). Then talk of absolute truth. Find how many places Swami Ji rectified his stand and asked his disciples to make necessary changes in his writings if necessary.

          ———But I am saying that before we consider Nanak to be a vaidik we should try to think somewhat on those questions.——-

          Who are you to give certificates of Vaidik and anti Vaidiks to others? Which questions? Do you know all four Vedas absolutely? Are you a Vaidik? Let me see..

          ——–If I do not get the proper material then is it your mistake?No.It is my mistake.——

          So by your logic, Dayanand was a fool who strove against the evil practice of restriction of Vedas for Shudras and women. Afterall Shudras and women could not read vedas because of their problems, right? Dayanand should have beaten Shudras and women instead of KAshi scholars in Shastrarth, right?…

          • Vinay Arya says

            Dear Vajraji
            I say that there were no real meaning of Vedas.But you say that they were not having access to the Vedas.Isay so because Agniveerji has said that Nanak was not a scholar of Sanskrit.If he was not a scholar of Sanskrit then it means that he couldn’t translate the Vedas correctly.Nanak has said something about Vedas.It means that Veda were translated by Nanakji.But as he was not a scholar of Sanskrit he did not have the right meaning of Vedas.
            Vajra:If I have not met Vinay Arya or am not a friend of Vinay Arya, that does not mean I beat Vinay Arya
            I:If you have not meet me,or if you are not my friend then how will you beat me.You are chating with me.You have meet me.So you can beat me mentally.But if you and me were not knowing each other and not meet then you can’t beat mea.
            I said that if Guru Nanak did not know the real meaning then it means that he knew false meaning.Because it is said in his books that Nanak had translated the Vedas.So if he had no real meaning then it means that he did not know the real one.Because he knew something about the Vedas.
            It is a good thing that he transformed the society.I never said that he did not transformed the society.But many of his teachings are against the Vedas.Because he did not knew the real meaning.It is because of this reason that he was not a vaidik.
            The absolute truth is known by Eshwar only but it does not mean that we cannot know the absolute truth.It is the absolute truth that rain occur because of clouds.If we meditate on the Vedic mantras then we can know the absolute truth.Swami Dayanand said that if I am wrong somewhere then you can discard it.Because it is not necessary that he was always right.He was not an ahankari.But it does not mean that Swami Dayanand was really wrong at any place.I have found all of his teachings to be the right.
            I am not giving any certificate to the Vaidiks and anti vaidiks.I am just saying that before we make any decision we should make our concepts clear.Don’t I have this right to say?
            I said that if I…

          • Vinay Arya says

            I said that if I do not get the proper material then it is my mistake not yours because I am working not you.Dayanand was helping others.So how could he be wrong?Helping others is too good.If Shudras due to their own mistakes are low then it does not mean that we should not work for their uplifting. You are wrong due to your mistakes but it does not mean that I should not help you.It is just an example.

            Dear Vajraji
            It is not necessary that I am right.If I am wrong then please just put the proof.But we shouldn’t start fighting.

        • says

          @Vinay

          Don’t you observe the blatant inherent contradictions in your views. Needless to say, they are anti-vedic. We shall point a few and leave the rest for discussions among visitors and introspection:
          1. Truth is never absolute from perspective of ignorant souls. Only Ishwar knows absolute truth.
          2. There is never a a volcano that would erupt or devatas would start throwing flowers from sky so that you realize that now you have understood truth and are certified to propagate. You have to simply keep improving and help improve others every moment to best of your intentions. That is how you grow from a toddler to legend.
          3. What is your own qualification to judge whether someone is Vedic or not? Have you mastered all the Vedas? Do you possess the intellect to master all the 4 Vedas? Do you even know Vedic sanskrit? By your own logic, first of all, unless you have mastered all the 20000 mantras of Vedas and know their true meanings, are a yogi who have reached ultimate Samadhi, know Vedic Sanksrit, you have no locus standi to comment on this subject. Same is true for any human being as per your logic.
          4. And by your logic, no one should do anything fr society or nation until he gets all material to master Vedas. Because they would be wrong then!
          5. We don’t see any wonder happening in world due to such a knowledge of Vedas by a single person today. This means your model is infeasible. But our model of learning and teaching the best as per your inner voice has transformed the world and makes it a sensible place.
          6. It seems that certain mathematical concepts like mathematical induction, limits, continuity, continuous functions, numerical methods are necessary to understand Vedic framework. That is why Jyotish is so much emphasized as necessary to understand Vedas.

          We replied because we find many people getting fanatic about Vedas and hence missing the very essence of Vedas. They say that Ghee is very good for health. But only when each spoon is accompanied by hard work to digest it.

          We leave it upon visitors to deliberate upon it further as our points have been made and also elaborated in series on “What is Vedic Religion”

          • Vinay Arya says

            Dear Agniveerji
            Vedas say that only jitendriya purush should rule over the earth.It means that the workers of the society should be educated.They should not be illietrated.If they are illiterated then they wil certainly do wrong of the sociery ignorantly.If you want to help the poors,scoiety then you first make your seflf educated then others should be made by you.(This example does not mean that you are illiterated.It is just an example).
            You say that there is no wonder happening in the world due to knowledge of Vedas.Well!Nobody is working according to the Vedas then how will some wonder happening.
            I have not learned the four Vedas,I do not know all of 20000 mantras.I have learned a very few ones.But those Vedic mantras show that only scholars should help the society.The very starting mantraa of Rigveda say that one should believe only in scholars not in illiterated people.And so,the other Vedic mantras cannot be against of this mantra.It means that I can say who is vaidik and who is not even if I don’t know the complete Vedas.But some necessary part of Vedas is to be known.If I do not know even the single mantra,then it means that I cannot judge who is true and who is false.
            But as I found Guru Nanak againsts some mantras I said so.Now if you change the concept the Yog then it does not mean that the concept of Yog has certainly changed.If I cannot become the true Yogi it does not mean that I can’t identify who is true yogi and who is false.

          • says

            This is the problem Vinay. You do not seem to get out of binary world – true and false. Progression is a path of continuity. To say that someone is Vedic and someone is not is foolish. At best one can – even if he is a great calculator – assert that one is 20% Vedic or 34.2525% Vedic in one particular aspect. And there are virtually infinite such aspects. As humans, Vedas guide us to propagate whatever best we know to best of our intentions. Guru Nanak also did that and so did all other great people. So do you in your life. It is problem of those who take anything blindly as ultimate gospel or reject something outright through a binary classification.

            And yes, unless you master Vedas completely, you cannot assess who is Vedic and who is not. You can at best say that given by current state of knowledge and mental capabilities, I consider this person to be classified as Vedic and this person as non-Vedic. But your classification system, your factors, your knowledge – everything is proe to errors affected by bounded rationality.

            Otherwise if you also know Vedic mantras, Swami Swatantranand also knew mantras – more than you, Pt Lekhram knew these mantras, Prof Rajendra Jigyasu also knows many more mantras. Why you all differ then? Swami Swatantranand, Pt Lekhram, Swami Shradhanand, Prof Jigyasu considered Sikh Gurus to be Vedic role models. You do not. So either they did not understand Vedas or you do not understand, as per your logic. We, at Agniveer, are following their noble ideals as we find that scientific, rational and perfectly in sync with Vedas and Swami Dayanand. If you differ, you should rather ask yourself why this difference exists. You can use your own blog or page to promote your viewpoint and we shall be happy to change our viewpoint if we find ourselves unjustified.
            Admin

  30. Truth Seeker says

    Guru Nanak Dev was not a scholar of Sanskrit. But he followed the Asthang Yog philosophy of Veda through which he realized truth & he propagated it own language as much as he could know the truth. Guru Nanak Dev nowhere declare himself prophet. Sikh religion was formed to save Hindu Dharma. As guru Nanak Dev was not scholar of Sanskrit, so he wrote Guru Granth Sahib in Gurmukhi script the languages in which he was proficient. But he many places mentioned Veda as supreme & declare (Omkaar Ved Nirmaya) Veda are given by supreme sprite(Omkaar/God).
    http://agniveer.com/3985/sikh-gurus-and-vedas

  31. Vinay Arya says

    Dear Truth eeker ji
    You say that Guru Nanak Dev did not have proper educaton of Sanskrit language.So it means that he couldn’t understand whateve was written in Sanskrit.The Yogis were false at that time.Becuase nobody knew the Sanskrit.Pakhandis had illustrated wrongly the Yog Darshan of Maharshi Patanjali.So it means that Nanak Dev got false knolwedge of Yog.So how can he be a Yogi?
    You say that Guru Nanak Dev did not have knowledge of Sanskrit so he wrote Guru Granth Sahib.So it clearly indicates the ignorance of Guru Nanak Dev.He did not have the education of his mother tongue.If you say that he was a Yogi then it means that he should be having higher responsibilities.But Guru Nanak couldn’t think to save his mother tongue.

    Thank you!

  32. says

    @Vinay

    Cont.. from previous

    ——-He got false education.I am not saying this.You say that Nanak did not have proper material.It clearly indicates that the knowledge of Guru Nanak was false.So it means that Guru Nanak is false Guru.——–

    Dayanand says that your Mata is your first Guru! Now tell me have your mother read all Vedas and understood them correctly? If no then she had false knowledge and she taught you false knowledge. And thus your knowledge that “Nanak was pakhandi” is false and by your logic, the true knowledge has to be opposite to false knowledge which is “Nanak was great”! Now apologise for what you have uttered about Guru Nanak.

    —— if Nanak did not have the proper knowledge then it means that he was one of those pakhandis.——-

    Replace Nanak by your mother and read it thrice. Let me know your experience when you call your mom as Pakhandi :)

    ———Guru Nanak did not have the proper raw material.——-

    Never ever try to win debates by parroting the same stuff repeatedly. Respect all the great souls who enlightened the world in the times of darkness.

    —–It means that he couldn’t become great.Great are those who speak the “sacrd truth which is universal”.——

    Do you know the universal truth? Tell me what is the latitude of the place you live? What is the exact distance b/w your feet and center of earth. If you cant tell me these smaller truths, stop calling others as pakhandi or worse. You are yet to grow to the level that you can talk on even Physics and Mathematical laws, forget about eternal Vedic laws.

    HAPPY GURU NANAK JAYANTI

  33. Vinay Arya says

    I have not said that my mother’s knowledge is absolutely true.Dayanand has said that the mother is the first guru.But he has later indicated that mother should be well educated earlier.Dayanand has said that if mother is wrong then it is not necessary to obey her.And please,dont’ just put the words of Dayanand.Try to put logics with it.

  34. Vinay Arya says

    According to you,a soul can never know the absolute truth.So it means that whatever you are saying about me is false.I have said earlier,don’t start fighting,just concentrate on the principles.

  35. says

    Please do not mind Vinay, but could you share your educational qualifications? From your posts, it looks that you have not studied mathematics beyond school level. That is why you are unable to understand a non-discrete multi-dimensional model of the world. You simply want to categorize everything as true or false.
    Please correct me if I am wrong.

    • says

      Dear Vajra,
      Let us not get personal during discussions. We understand your viewpoint but instead of getting personal, we should put our stand and allow other persons to extract whatever best they can. And we should do that with politeness even if others differ.
      Admin

    • Vinay Arya says

      Dear Vajraji
      Somebody said to me,I saw horns on the head of a donkey”.
      So should I believe in him?No.I would simply say that there can be no horns on a donkey.You might have seen a different animal.

      1+1=2 is the truth
      1+1=3 is the untruth.
      So it is necessary to classify everything into the truth and the untruth.

      • Truth Seeker says

        @Vinay
        You said above Guru Nanak was Pakhandi. Why? Assume there are so many superstitions & rituals & blind belief have taken place in society. People hate with each-other due to caste deference, worshiping idols & expecting idols will give them fruits as they want by worshiping them, treating woman as sex object, killing innocent people & animals on the name of God & following other many superstitions etc. If someone like you look the things in right perspective & analyzing logically all things & raise voice against all these nonsense prevalent in society. You are not a scholar of Sanskrit so you write against all these nonsense in your own language to teach the people. So, should I call you pakhandi for your this great contribution to the society?
        गुरु नानक और गुरुओं दी बानी
        http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/sikh-2/

        • Vinay Arya says

          Dear Truth Seeker
          I have not said that Guru Nanak did not do anything to remove the superstitions.Actually,can Hawkins think of keeping quiet if these superstitions are in his country.No.He will certainly raise his voice against them.But does the hawkins become Vedic.No.Because he considers that there is no God.Similar thing is there is with Guru Nanak.
          Please try to understand this analogy.I am not saying this with any bad intentions.If you can prove I will accept it.
          Thank you!

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Vinay
            ________No.Because he considers that there is no God.Similar thing is there is with Guru Nanak__________
            Where you find any preaching against Veda by Nanak, rather he said Only Veda are given by God (Omkar Ved Nirmaya), some other places he said
            वेद कतेव नहीं झूठे, झूठे है जो न विचारे (Veda are never false) .
            & Who said you that you should have belief in Veda to be Vedic. Everyone is Vedic or Veda follower if one follows trait of Dharma (religion) Non-violence, Patience, Forgiving, Self-control, Non-Stealing, Purity, Control of Sense and Work organs, Intellect, Knowledge seeking, Truthfulness, Non-Anger. No matter one have belief in veda or not.
            Read this article to know more:-
            (Common questions on Vedic religion)
            http://agniveer.com/5132/common-questions-vedic-religion/

          • Vinay Arya says

            Dear Truth Seeker
            Guru Nanak at some places criticises Vedas and at some places praises Vedas.Meaning when required he praises and when required he criticises.It is only this point and the none.If you would clear me on this then it is ok.I will accept your views.Please do not consider me of some other caste.(I do not think you believe in caste system).Only this point does not sute me.

          • Vinay Arya says

            Dear Truth Seeker
            Please receive the following proof:
            ved padhat brahma mare charo ved kahani
            sant ki mahima ved na jani(Uhya. ….sukhmani ashtpadi 7,pad 8)

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Vinay Arya
            _________Guru Nanak at some places criticises Vedas and at some places praises Vedas_________
            Brother, you are correct. It should be treated as human error. Guru Nanak Dev already declared Only Veda are God’s Given not Guru Granth Sahib. Why did he said this? Think on this. In Manu Smiriti also sage manu declared if there is any difference on any matter between Smiriti & Shruti, only Shruti (Veda) is ultimate. Both sage Nanak & Manu was aware their scriptures are human creation, there may be contradictions & discrepancies. So, any teaching of these scripture which is not in line of Veda should be treated as human error. We should focus on Veda only, treat others as secondary scripture.

          • Vinay Arya says

            Thank you!
            But we will have to accept that present sikh Gurus,Sikhs are quite bad.They drink wine eat meat Gurus have become bad.They are worshipping dead matter.They are acting against Guru Granth Sahib.
            But I have read his biography and of many others.They are quite brave.Out of them Guru Govind Singh was the most brave.But he did not have the complete weapons.Otherwise India had become free of Muslims at present.
            So we can consider them soemwhat Vedics.

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Vinay Arya
            All guru had done their best to save our country & Dharma on this earth. Their intention was noble. We should have to be grateful to them if they would not come to fight against butchers like Babar, Aurangjeb etc. Our country may second Pakistan or Afganistan, center of Islamic Jehadis.

          • says

            Brother Vinay

            ———-But we will have to accept that present sikh Gurus,Sikhs are quite bad.———

            Yes, but this is applicable to Arya Samajis too. But that does not mean we start abusing Swami Dayanand, the founder of Arya Samaj.

            ——– They drink wine eat meat Gurus have become bad.——-

            Gurus have not become bad, its their followers those have gone astray.

            ———But I have read his biography and of many others.They are quite brave.Out of them Guru Govind Singh was the most brave.But he did not have the complete weapons.Otherwise India had become free of Muslims at present.———-

            Yes, this is the way to remember our great ancestors.

            ———So we can consider them soemwhat Vedics.———-

            Why somewhat? They were thousand times more Vaidiks than those who were chanting and parroting Vedas at that time when invaders were raping our mothers and motherland. Gurus were real role models of Hindus at that time.

            We must not use adjectives like “somewhat Vaidiks” for them. If for some reasons our parents could not study but they made us masters by protecting, nurturing, loving and creating environment for our studies by sacrificing their comfort then they are more Vaidiks than we can ever become.

  36. Vinay Arya says

    Yes,I have not studied mathematics beyond school level.And I am not a college student even.I have not even cracked any entrance exam.But I am preparing to crack Aieee in this year.If I can’t crack I would go for AIPMT AIIMS in the next year.
    There are two types of things in the world.
    Truth=reality or jaisaa hai vaisa hii mananaa
    Untruth=non-reality

  37. Vinay Arya says

    I have pasees 12th board with mathematics.I had prepared for IITJEE.I used to crack many lengthy tough problems of IITJEE.I loved mainly the problesms of Differential calculus,Integral calculus,Mechanics,Physical chemistry etc.I used to give at least 14 hours a day to study.But in the last year,due to many reasons I couldn’t give the required time,I had become lazy,I showed no interest in study so I failed in IITJEE but was passed with 72% in 12th.These are low because I did not give the sufficient time.But I used to get more than 85% before 12th.

    Now I am giving again 12th but now with biology and aim is to crack AIIMS.

    I know my educational bcakground is very lower one.

  38. Vinay Arya says

    Dear all
    Actually,it was my mistake.Swami Dayanand has clrearly stated the greatness of Nanak and Govindji.But as Nanakaji were not great in Sanskrit he has said that he was not knowing Sanskrit.But later he has stated that Punjab at that time was devoid of Sanskrit.He has also stated that Nanak saved some people in his country.Swami Dayanand has praised Govindji for his intellect and courage at that time.

  39. dogra says

    Taranjeet,
    1) There is no idol worship in Hindu scriptures check verses in other sections
    2) There is only one God in Vedas:Ishwar
    So get it right about Hinduism, just as you are complaining about parts of Article as it talks about Sikhism
    Understand Sikhism is its own faith, we have our own, but great respect and regard for the Gurujis

  40. dogra says

    Posters be alert as there are a number of individuals of Sikh faith who actually think Hindus want to destroySikhism, ignoring blatant facts that the Hindu faith Joined 10th Master, A number of Hindu families in Punjab raising their first son to be Sikh.
    Such poo poo is endemic in such individuals, their aim to spread poison about Hindus, and malign Hinduism.
    Shocking that such individuals belive such garbagre but thats life and thats bigotry

  41. GOD IS GREAT says

    OK. To clear out the confusions, Hindus & Sikhs are followers of same reality. Only thing is: They have different approaches. Hindus believed in Ahimsa and that’s why they produced someone like Mr. Mohandaas Karamchand Gandhi. Sikhs have believed in fighting with cruelty & injustice, and hence they bred many warriors. Just posting here a true incident.

    4 centuries before today, A boy from Maharashtra named as Naaraayan Suryaji Pant Thosar left his home in search for truth. He went to many places to examine the reality. When he went to Srinagar, he saw 6th Sikh Guru – Hargobind Singh sitting near a mountain.

    Narayan: You are on the throne of Guru Nanak. Aren’t you?
    Guru: Yes, I am successor of his spiritual throne.

    Narayan: You are wearing arms and maintain troops and horses. You allow yourself to be addressed as the True King. What sort of saint are you?
    Guru: Guru Nanak has never told us to quit world. He only told us to renounce illusions. I am a prince externally but a hermit internally. Arms are there to protect the poor and destroy the tyrant. Don’t you see that India is under custody of invaders now? Being a saint won’t help.

    Narayan was moved and he decided to do the same. He established many exercise centers to increase physical strength. He also requested many saints to build temples of Hanuman, Hindu symbol for devotion and strength. Narayan was himself a devotee of Ram. He told people to worship these 2 in order to get energy and fight with evil. He focussed on physical fitness in addition to mental stability.

    A Maratha ruler wanted to renounce and went to Saint Tukaraam, a spiritual preacher. Tukaram refused to admit him and sent him to Narayan, who was more experienced. Narayan happily accepted that ruler as his disciple and said, “O king! don’t renounce this world. That won’t help. One owes a lot to his mother. This India is your mother only so, wipe her tears by making her free from invaders.” The ruler agreed. He was one of the great…

    • GOD IS GREAT says

      A Maratha ruler wanted to renounce and went to Saint Tukaraam, a spiritual preacher. Tukaram refused to admit him and sent him to Narayan, who was more experienced. Narayan happily accepted that ruler as his disciple and said, “O king! don’t renounce this world. That won’t help. One owes a lot to his mother. This India is your mother only so, wipe her tears by making her free from invaders.” The ruler agreed. He was one of the great rulers of Indian history.

      TODAY, NARAYAN SURYAJIPANT THOSAR IS KNOWN AS SWAMY SAMARTHA RAMDAAS. THAT MARATHA RULER WHOM HE PREACHED, WAS NONE OTHER THAN CHHATRAPATI SHIVAJI MAHARAJ HIMSELF. A SMALL INCIDENT BUT THAT REDEFINED INDIAN HISTORY. HAD THE MEETING NOT HAPPENED BETWEEN SIKH GURU AND SAMARTHA SWAMY, HISTORY WOULD HAD BEEN MUCH MORE PATHETIC.

      This proves that Sikhs were violent but that violence was to support Dharma only. Guru Gobind Singh’s sons were martyred and they accepted martyrdom to protect Dharma. I would just conclude that Sikhs are very much tolerant. Sikhs aren’t Muslims. The true message of the Sikh tradition is to have warfare against evil forces. This is what Hindus have to learn from Sikhs.

      ॐ शांति: शांति: शांति:।
      सर्वे भवंतु सुखिन: सर्वे संतु निरामया।

      सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यंतु मा कश्चिद्दुखभाग्भवेत् ॥

  42. dogra says

    End of the day have great regards for the Sikh faith, there is no doubt if it was not for the Brave Sikh people in North India we would not be Hindus today!
    If Agniveer can respond to Taranjeet questions

  43. dogra says

    Agniveer can you explain following meaning, as article may have error:

    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart34.htm

    “Asankh pooja asankh tap taayu. Asankh granth mukhi ved paath. Asankh Yog manni rahahi udaas: Countless are meditations, countless are loves. Countless are worship services, countless are austere disciplines. Countless are scriptures and recitations of the Vedas. Countless are Yogis, whose minds remain detached from the world (sggs 3).

  44. Vijay Rangan says

    Well There are 2 Sikhs. Tat Khalsa (Mlechcha Sikhs) inspired by British and Sanatan Singh Khalsa (Namdhari, Radosaomi, Ravidassia, etc.). The mainstream sikh (Tat Khalsa), lol, fans a book just like a Puranic fanning an idol. Man it is a as same as idolatry. To know more about Singh Sabhas, read the link http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/introduction.html.

    Here I post a few points.

    START OF EXCERPT

    The Sanatan Sikhs regard Classical Sikhism – which arose from the Sanatan Dharma and Vedic culture – to be a denomination of Sanatan Dharma. In the early days of Sikh history, the Gurudwaras were managed by Mahants (caretakers). Frescos of Hindu deities, murtis of Hindu deities as well as images of Sikh gurus formed part of the sanctum. When Punjab fell under the British rule, hordes of missionaries moved in to harvest the lost souls in the name of Jesus. A Sikh religious administrative body, Sanatan Sikh Sabha was established in 1873 by Sikhs in Amritsar to counter the rising influence of, and conversion to Christianity.

    A murti or a book is an inanimate object. Even an illiterate can bow before a mere book. It doesn’t give him any knowledge. I do not know Punjabi. If I bow before a book written in Gurmukhi (the Adi Granth, Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth), I will never get the knowledge. So don’t be stupid. The whole world knows, that Sikhism is ridden with caste inequalities. The Khatris, Aroras, Kuhrains, form the high caste Sikhs. They will never mingle with other Sikhs. Then comes Jatt Sikhs. They ask for Khalistan, but they were wipped in their butt. So in India, the fools keep mum. Then comes thee Mazhabhis (Dalit Sikhs). Just like Hindu dalits (having own Temples and gods), they have their own Gurudwaras and are shunned by the above mentioned two Sikhs.

    END OF EXCERPT

    If caste system or Varna system is No No in Sikhism then why did Guru Gobind Sing in Dasam Granth mentioned the following lines (Page 1137).

    चली पाप की जगत कहानी ॥ भाजा धरम छाड रजधानी ॥ भिंन भिंन घर घर मत चला ॥ या ते धरम…

    • RamSinagh says

      Brother RSS was not involved in operation blue star it was Congress government,please do not involve RSS in that.We are follower of Guru Gobind Singh and not sure why you have so much hatrate for RSS.Sikhs are our brother only.Blame GANDHI family and not RSS.

  45. Singh says

    SGGS Page 747, Line 18 – One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they alone will not bring liberation.

    Page 148 – ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥ – The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.

    Page 355 – ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ – The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.

    Page 1237 – ਨਵ ਛਿਅ ਖਟ ਕਾ ਕਰੇ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ ਉਚਰੈ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੋਹਿ ॥ – You may study the nine grammars, the six Shaastras and the six divisions of the Vedas. You may recite the Mahaabhaarata. Even these cannot find the limits of the Lord.

    • Singh says

      Aad Guru Granth Sahib – page 637
      — “ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਗਉ ਕਿਆ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪਾਹਣੁ ਨੀਰਿ ਪਖਾਲੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਬੂਡਹਿ ਤੇਹਿ ॥
      O brother, you worship gods and goddesses. What can you ask of them and what can they give to you? O brother, the stones/idols you wash with water sink in water (in other words how could these stones help you cross the ocean of worldly temptations)”

      • Krishnarao says

        If you think Vedic people or the Vedas support idol worship, you know nothing about the Vedas. Many here are Vedic people and we do not worship idols or support idol worship. So you are preaching to the choir here.

    • Krishnarao says

      As mentioned before Vedic people agree with the verses you mentioned above. Believe God is beyond the Vedas, SGGS, and any other book. No book and we mean no book can fully explain God, because God is beyond all that texts. Those text can only lead us to God. Those text can only point us in the right direction, but we as people can only know God through meditation. A book is just a book my friend. Doesn’t matter if it is the Vedas or SGGS. Those books can only point us to God, but they don’t know God. God is so beyond any book.

  46. Jasvinder says

    Agniveer,

    Sikhs can refer to God by any name, Ram, Krishna, Vasudev, Hari, Guru Nanak Dev ji gave Waheguru/Vaheguru word to humanity. The word waheguru represents different yugs, 4 words representing different words.
    Regarding OnKar you can call it but word best name/word is “Waheguru” not OnKar. You can meditate on any name. There are different names used in Gurbani to refer God, RAM, ALLAH, HAR and others.
    Guru Nanak Dev ji added Ek(One) before work On Kar that God is one as there were many pandits and muslims who wanted people to pray to their GOD(s). God is one you can meditate on any name.
    All came and comes from GOD, every creature and knowledge. So Ved and other scriptures came from GOD. Yes Ved’s are referred in different places in SGGS, but all (Veds, SGGS, Bible, Quran) came from One Supreme Lord. You can say different shades/colors of same God, no distinction, you can see different religions, different views and flavours. Even waters of two rivers who merge to same sea/ocean do not have same taste before merging but they become one with ocean after merging, same goes to human.

    @KRISHNARAO
    Prophets came in different times in different places to server the humanity and take them out of sinking well of MAYA. They are sent by God to direct the human being.
    You or others can argue with me that there prophets or Godman are not required, but there were different prophets who came to save the humanity. Veds came from prophets, you can call them GOD but this I add a code from above “Sikhism believes in one single timeless shapeless omnipresent God”. Everybody who came to life is bound to die, but GOD is not. Adding to quote above “Truth, Without Fear, Beyond Birth and Death”.
    Yes, I agree with you that you need to devote your self to GOD but that does not mean you leave your work. Everybody has the potential but they need to eliminate Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger. How can one meditate peacefully, thinking about GOD when he/she is not attached to Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger.

    I do not have any bad thoughts/anger about you or any person trying to defame or trying to make one superior to other, but understand all came from ONE, the process can be anything that only GOD knows.
    Lets focus our mind on GOD and not on who is best, it is not going to take us anywhere.

    • krishnarao says

      Namaste Jasvinder,

      You made a couple of accusations that I did not state:

      “You or others can argue with me that there prophets or Godman are not required, but there were different prophets who came to save the humanity.”
      – Can you quote to me where I made this comment. Or even insinuated it. Please copy the quote and paste it because I don’t see where I wrote anything like this on here. If you look at my writings you see I said,

      “Vedas does not support prophet or prophethood. Vedas even consider that a form of prejudice. Vedas are clear that anyone can be enlightened by God by just meditating on God. No one person is more special than anyone else. Everyone has the potential to achieve this. They just have to give themselves to God and meditate on him. That is all. Even having prophets, godmen, son of god, holy ghosts, superman, x-men, or any other nonsense will not get you to God. Using them are all forms of idol worship. Vedas support the individual human to become incredible. They don’t need some superhuman, prophet, godman, superman, x-man, or any of that garbage. JUST NEED GOD ONLY.”
      – When you read through this it clearly states VEDAS DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY PROPHET ANYWHERE. Not just some other person’s prophets, but all prophets anywhere. Vedas consider all of it nonsense. Vedas do not support the concept of prophets. Vedas do not put one person over another including some so called prophet. Because that is a form of idol worship as well. Vedas believe in the individual from anywhere and we all have the ability to connect with God on our own. We don’t need a prophet or a prophet’s help for it. We can do it ourselves.

      You also said this: “Everybody who came to life is bound to die, but GOD is not.”
      – I never said otherwise. Accusations again.

      You also said this: “that does not mean you leave your work.”
      – I never said you leave work either. Accusation again.

      “Everybody has the potential but they need to eliminate Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger.”
      – I never even addressed this, so not sure where you are coming from on this. I heard a Vedic scholar say to eliminate Ego is impossible because that is the nature of humanity, but you can manage Ego. And the Veda make it clear to manage your ego so you can connect directly with God.

  47. dogra says

    Jasvinder, Lord Krishna, advises to work without attachements:
    http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter3.html

    “Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently
    and without attachment to the results,
    because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.

    King Janaka and others attained perfection
    by Karma-yoga alone.
    You should perform your duty with a view to guide people
    and for the universal welfare (of the society).


    Lord Krishna also says God resides in hearts of ALL beings, so we accept all human beings, our functions in life are different dependent on our education and training, but each functin has dignity of labour, as show in Agniveers other articles.
    So e..g. we respect function of lowest paid-cleaner, as that is what Sanatan dharma treaches us.
    Sanatan Dharma is a pluralistic faith in that it accepts different paths to the one supreme God.

  48. Sikh says

    As a Sikh I want to clear up a misunderstanding many, many Indians have about Dharma. Dharma is any method devised and used to rid onself of Maya/illusion for the purposes of observing true reality.

    Sikhism is a Dharma

    Jainism is a Dharma

    Buddhism is a Dharma

    All Yoga/tantra systems are Dharmas

    All Upanishads are Dharmas

    Veda is not a Dharma.

    Veda means knowledge. The Vedas are a collection of observations that the Rishi made after they had gotten rid of Maya. We don’t know what Dharma they used that is why as Arya we keep trying to reach that stage so that the Vedas can be understandable. When that happens it will be the Satya Yuga, the age of Truth. The Sikh Gurus disliked people who could recite the Vedas but not have any understanding or inclination in practicing a Dharma to percieve what the Vedas mean. They similarly disliked Siddis/yogis/tantrists who practiced body control alone without contemplation or inclination to practice Dharma.

    To practice and live a truthful life is seen as the highest ideal in Sikhism because that is what Dharma is–Truth, the practice of Truth and only truth, the intent and desire to observe and practice only truth. People should not mix this up with the Vedas. The Vedas are only going to be inteligable to those who have mastered Dharma.

    Sikhs are not against Hindus, all true Indians are Sikhs(students of Dharma) its just that a large group of people have become obsessed with simply reciting Knowledge that they cannot understand or wish to understand. Similarly alot of people practice Yoga/Siddis/Tantra with the aim of merely mastering bodily functions. We have to wake up and practice real Dharma or we will be stuck in the Kali yuga for a long time.

    Concerning the difference between Dharma and religion.

    God = Truth Truth = God, that is the basic concept of God in all Indian Dharmas. Indians don’t have Rreligions, to really understand Indian Dharmas let me offer a relative example–Quantum physics is a Dharma.

    Non Indian people have religions, a religion is when one or more entities enforce laws on people and enforce them by some form of punishment if not followed. As an example–the united states constitution is a religion.

    • krishnarao says

      Mr. Sikh,

      Thank you for your message. I will also add it isn’t Dharma just to memorize any book, and that includes the SGGS. Or anyone who must memorizes the words of the Sikh Gurus. Or anyone who just memorizes the Jain text or the buddhist text. I will actually disagree with you when you say All Upanishads are Dharmas. Upanishads are also just books or words. They are also experience of individuals. As is SGGS the recording of the experience of individuals. No book anywhere is Dharma by itself. Those text can only point you towards Dharma. But the books themselves are just that, books.

    • says

      Namaste

      It is extremely unfortunate that views of Satyarth Prakash are interpreted in extremely distorted form by many. First of all Swami Dayanand makes it very clear that intentions of Guru Nanak was very noble. Second, Swami Dayanand’s criticism is at an intellectual level and not personal. This is just like refutations and evaluations that happen in scientific journals. Einstein debunked Bohr’s theory and gave valid reasons. Bohr debunked Einstein’s and gave valid reasons. This is way of the scientists. It is less competent people who take all this as a condemnation.

      Whatever Swami Dayanand wrote about Guru Nanak is right from perspective of an unmatched Vedic scholar. Problem happens when we start assuming these views as absolute truths regardless of our own level. Thus I may be weak in English and a Dickens has every reason to question my language. But if a 3 year old toddler who barely can remember the alphabets states the same view because he heard Dickens questioning my English, that would at best be a joke to publish on Facebook.

      Now coming to some of the questions of why did Guru Nanak not promote Sanskrit or Vedas, answer is simple. Vedas were not at all available for common masses to even glance at in that era, forget about studying the same. Unless you belong to some very specific sub-castes of Brahmins, you would be kicked out of any gurukul teaching even mugging of Vedas. Go to Varanasi even today, and rarely can even an ordinary Brahmin get admission in such Vedic gurukuls. They have even high caste and low caste Brahmins!

      And yes, it is a bitter but true fact that whatever was being propagated in Sanskrit in those eras was either casteist anti-woman superstitious literature or porn works of likes of Kalidas et al. So what Guru Nanak did in that era was to best of his capabilities and constraints in that era.

      Swami Dayanand is also right that had Guru Nanak got an opportunity to study Vedas, he would have strengthened Vedic Dharma directly. But this is also true that it took several more centuries of butcherings and rapes, then British Rule, then influx of slightly more liberal social norms, better technology to provide opportunity to Swami Dayanand to study Vedas and present them in the form we know today. Even Swami Dayanand had to put unusual hardships to procure Vedas as foolish casteists would prefer to keep them hidden from world or even their own intellect. So tough was it for Swami Dayanand to get access to Vedic wisdom that he had once even contemplated suicide. Thankfully that was the last time he ever thought negative, and hence you and me are in a position to enlighten the world with Vedic wisdom.

      I ask a simple question. Why don’t you write your posts, comments and articles in Vedic Sanskrit? Why don’t even Sanskrit scholars of today write in Sanskrit of Vedas. Even their Sanskrit starts only from Ashtadhyayi era which is hardly 2000 years old. Reason is simple – there is no easy access to mastery of Vedic Sanskrit today, even in this era of digitization. And to expect someone to master it 600 years ago would only be naive. Further to condemn a great personality for doing whatever he could best do given the times, situations and constraints, would be even more criminal.

      On contrary, people like me are amazed at views of Sikh Gurus, who followed their conscience – inner voice – and worked for implementation of Vedas in practice. By studying their lives, one realizes why Yajurveda says that Vedas lie within each of us.

      This does not mean that we should not study Vedas. Indeed we should do to speed up the process. We should surely study works of ex-scientists to be masters of Physics even though we can ourselves deduce everything. But to condemn a Galileo because he did not use Einstein’s relativistic adjustments in his calculations would be heights of immaturity.

      I don’t know what decision you want to make. But if you really want to understand what you intend to condemn, do a small experiment. Throw away all books you have. Simply get Kaumudi grammar book and show how much Vedas you can master. You are not allowed to purchase any printed text, discuss on internet, search online, or take help of any non-casteist Vedic scholar etc. These conditions would still be hundred times easier than in era of Nanak. And you have already studied Satyarth Prakash, I presume. But let us see where you progress in 6 months, and we can discuss it at that point.

      Dhanyavad

      • hinduagnostic says

        i know what he meant but some arya samaji seems to have some hatred for sikhs and they try propgate it through teachings of swami dayanand saraswati this is made many sikhs leaving arya samaj activities which they were following proudly as i know swami dayanand saraswati went to punjab and studied more deeply of the sikh religion and even told sikhs he would change his second edition of sathyarth parkash after getting a deeper understanding of sikhism and seeing the similarity it had with arya samaj views

        • Vinay Arya says

          Those who have hates are not Arya Samajists.They may call themselves Arya as a crow sitting on a tree thinks he is higher than anyone.Arya Samaj can criticise anyone for their bad deeds.Nanak was not any God who can’t be wrong at any place.Sikhism is not any God made religion which can’t be wrong at any place.Those who think that they can’t be wrong and considers themselves to be the best are not religious.But those who say that they can be wrong at many places or they may be completely wrong are religious.Because the following is thew rule for religious persons:

          “For accepting the truth and declining the false,one must be ever ready”.

          • Vinay Arya says

            Arya Samaj has always respected the Good deeds of Sikha.And it has also said that Sikhs converted muslims into Hindus in the old time.But bowing to some scripture is a from of idolatory.At least the real Arya samajists do not bow down to any book.But yes it considers Vedas as the book of God but do not bow down in front of it.Arya Samaj can also have mistakes at many places.That’s why it failed in its mission.Every human has his inbuilt mistakes.

          • Vinay Arya says

            Arya Samaj has always respected the Good deeds of Sikha.And it has also said that Sikhs converted muslims into Hindus in the old time.But bowing to some scripture is a from of idolatory.At least the real Arya samajists do not bow down to any book.But yes it considers Vedas as the book of God but do not bow down in front of it.Arya Samaj can also have mistakes at many places.That’s why it failed in its mission.Every human has his inbuilt mistakes.Swami Dayanand has said if Sikhs had followed Guru Granth Sahib from words to actions then they would have been salvated.

    • Vinay Arya says

      Swami Dayanand criticised sikhs because they were the supporters of woman disrespect.Swami Dayanand criticised sikhs because they used to criticise Vedas.But at some places they used to sing the Vedas.Similarly like dogs bark at strangers with no reason and lusts with the bitches.Swami Dayanand criticed each and every cult of the world.His motive was to destroy the cultism and establish the unity.

        • Vinay Arya says

          ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HINDUS,SIKHS,MUSLIMS,BUDDHISTS AND SIKHS.RATHER IT WAS THE FIRST ORGANISATION WHO TALKED ABOUT RELIGIOUS UNITY.ARYA SAMAJ CONSIDERS ALL OF THE HUMAN BEINGS WHETHER THEISTS I.E.SIKHS,HINDUS ETC. AND ATHEISTS BOTH TO BE THE SONS OF THE GOD.ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT BELIEVE IN CULTISM.IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE UNAWARE OF ARYA SAMAJ AND ITS ROLE IN INDIA’S FREEDOM MOVEMENT.I THINK YOU ARE FORGETTING THAT WOMAN TADYA CAN TALK TO MAN BECAUSE OF ARYA SAMAJ ONLY.ARYA SAMAJ IS AN ORGANISATION WHO SAYS BRAHMIN IS FROM DEEDS NOT BIRTH.

          ARYA SAMAJ CONVERTED LAKHS OF MUSLIMS INTO HINDUS AND ITS STILL CONVERTING.SIKHS NEAR 1900 COULDN’T ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS OF CHRISTIANS ON INDIA’S FAITH BUT IT WAS ARYA SAMAJ WHO ANSWERED THEM VERY BRAVELY.THERE WERE MANY SIKHS WHO WERE CONVERTED TO MUSLIMS.SIKH SAMAJ WAS NOT INTERESTED IN IT.BUT ARYA SAMAJ CONVERTED BACK THEM TO THEIR ORIGINAL VEDIC DHARM.

          ARYA SAMAJISTS LIKE SWAMI SHRADDHANAND,PANDIT LEKHRAM,GURUDATT VIDYARTHI,SWAMI DARSHANANAD,SWAMI SWATANTRATAANAND,SWAMI SARVADAANAND,MAHATMA HANSRAJ ETC. WERE KILLED DURING THE WAR AGAINST BLIND FAITHS,TERRORISM,BRITISH RULES,SUPERSTITIONS AND IRRATIONALITY.ARYA SAMAJ COULD DO THAT FOR INDIA IN JUST 30 YEARS WHICH ANY OTHER CULT ORGANISATION PRESENT AT THAT TIME COULDN’T DO.

          FREIND “HINDU AGNOSTIC”,IT TAKES TIME TO SEARCH TRUTH ABOUT ARYA SAMAJ.ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT SAY THAT SOME IS HINDU SOME IS SIKH SOME IS MUSLIM ETC.RATHER IT SAYS WE ALL ARE HUMANS AND WE HAVE EUAL RIGHTS OVER ANYTHING.

          • Vinay Arya says

            The most Authentic Biographies of Maharshi Dayanand are as follows:
            (1)By Pandit Lekhram
            (2)By Bhavani Lal Bhartiya
            (3)By Pandit Ganaga Prasad Upadhyay
            And many others.

            But please,reframe your sentence as :
            According to you,which is the most authentic biography of Swami Dayanand Saraswati?

            Please don’t neglect grammer rules as it would be very difficult to understand what you say if you say a wrong sentence.

          • hinduagnostic says

            okay thanks because i heard dayanand saraswati did canibis and did miracles but i think this is from unauthentic biographies and would you say a possible biography by vishwa prakash is authentic?

          • Vinay Arya says

            I have not read biographies from vishwa prakash but some Arya Samajists say that it is unauthentic.I read Biographies written by Arya Samajists only.Because in other biographies it is said that Dayanand lost in Kashi Debate.But it is known all over the world that Hindu Pandits lost the debate while dayanand won it.You should read the commentary of Mahatma Gandhi on Swami Dayanand.The Gandhi has said that Dayanand like human beings are borne on the earth very rarely and his character is a subject of jealousy for me.The Gandhi has said Dayanand to be the greatest of all social reformers at that time.

          • Vinay Arya says

            Actually,biographies are not important for me just the teachings are important.Because biographies are made by ill minded people to defame the hero.The places at which the Nanak criticised the Vedas may be false too.Nanak may have been a great person.But we cannot go into the past and can’t say what he did.Nanak was 500 years before.So,we can’t say the present books about Nanak are completely true.

            I just quote the following from Dayanand’s teachings:
            Take good from everyone and avoid false from everyone.And love everyone.

          • Vinay Arya says

            I just read the literature of Swami Dayanand and found that he was right by logic and discovering the truth.This is how I can say Swami Dayanand was great.I criticise Hindus,Jains etc. by reading their books critically.I read Swami Dayanand’s books critically too.If teachings of Jains are bad I say jains are bad.But no one say what the people at that time were.It requires sicnece to peep into the past.We can say anything on the basis of just the present books.But according to Swami Dayanand,we should leave every superstition and blind faith.So, I am leaving those superstitions

          • hinduagnostic says

            i see i think canibis and miracles are found in unauthentic biographies i respect swami dayanand saraswati and so did so many other figures but gandhi respect arya samaj but felt arya samaj were making the most tolerant religion on earth into intolerant by criticising other beliefs

          • Vinay Arya says

            Gandhi at many places criticised Swami Dayanand and Swami Shraddhanand both.I don’t know what was his intention.And what does he mean by “tolerant religion” and “intolerant religion”,is not known by me.Should we tolerate if some man is cut in front of our eyes?Should we tolerate if your parents are buried alive in front of our eyes?Should we tolerate your wife/husband is is being raped/killed in front of our eyes?

          • hinduagnostic says

            i think he is trying to say what most hindus would say that is to respect all beliefs as they are different paths to god gandhi only tried to make peace even if there is something bad in other beliefs he ignored and only looked at the good things in them if there are any hindus throughout history were tolerant to other beliefs which is why india has so many different beliefs today.

          • Vinay Arya says

            India has many beliefs,which is the only reason for India’s destruction.Muslims hate Hindus.Hindus Hate Muslims.christians hate Hindus.Muslims hate Christians.And on and on…….
            If India had one religion,one belief,one flag,one way,one food,one God then there would have been a strong unity.But other countries like America,China,Japan are having such type of unity.Either those countries have given up the religion or they have one faith.

            If you want to know how the different beliefs spread in our country then you must read the following book :
            http://agniveer.com/light-of-truth/

            All faiths are not old more than 2500 years.Jains evovled aound 2500 years before.Buddhists evolved aroung 2300 years.Christians evolved around 2000 years.Muslims evolved around 1400 years.Sikhism evolved around 500 years before.And the others faiths are quite young.Was there no faith before 2500 years?Were there not human beings before?There were human beings before 2500 years too.And Vedas are the oldest books found according to the scientists.Hence,before we had only Vedic one religion.Hence,we had a great unity.If want to know what is in the Vedas,just click the following link:
            aryasamajjamnagar.org

            After reading them you will find that Aryas were great in knowledge,science,techniques,prosperity.And long long long……..
            There is too much to be said.

          • hinduagnostic says

            your right i have great respect for arya samaj they brought back millions back to hinduism and destroyed manyfrom other beliefs in debates and had a hand in the freedom movement of india

  49. says

    अज्ञानी सिखों द्वारा गुरु गोविन्द सिंह जी के उपदेशों का अपमान

    अभिनेता अजय देवगन की आने वाली फिल्म सन ऑफ़ सरदार (son of sardar) में अजय देवगन को अनेक दृष्यों में अपनी छाती पर भगवान् शिव जी टेटू बना हुआ दिखाया गया हैं जिस पर कुछ अज्ञानी सिखों ने जोकि हिन्दू समाज के विरोधियों के बहकावे में आकर अपने आपको हिंदुयों से अलग दिखाने की कोशिश में लगे रहते हैं नया विवाद खड़ा करने का असफल प्रयास किया हैं। सिखों में 1920 से पहले तो विवाह,दाह संस्कार आदि क्रियाएँ भी हिन्दू समाज की वर्तमान प्रचलित विधियों से ही होती थी। अंग्रेजों ने फुट डालो और राज करो की नीति का पालन करते हुए मैकालिफ़ नामक अंग्रेज ने सिखों का इतिहास लिखा जिसमे उसने सिखों को हिन्दू समाज से पृथक लिखा। 1947 के समय भी सरदार तारा सिंह का भारत और पाकिस्तान से पृथक खालिस्तान नामक अलग देश बनाने का ख़वाब देखा था जिसे जिन्ना के मना करने से उसका यह प्रयास भी असफल हो गया। बाद में सिखों को मुसलमानों ने मार मार कर पाकिस्तान से भगा दिया। हिन्दू समाज गर्व से सिख गुरु और बहादुरों द्वारा हिन्दू समाज की रक्षा के लिए दिए गए अप्रतिम बलिदानों की प्रशंसा करता रहता हैं जबकि कुछ अलगाववादी और शत्रुओं के इन मंसूबो को न समझ कर उनके हाथ में खिलौना बन रहे हैं। इस बार सिखों का कहना हैं की भगवन शिव से सिखों का कुछ भी लेना देना नहीं हैं और यह सिखों को हिन्दू बनाने का प्रयास हैं। गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब सिखों का धर्मग्रन्थ हैं। उसकी एक एक पंक्ति सभी सिखों के लिए ईश वचन के समान हैं। अज्ञानी सिखों को हम बता दे की इसी पवित्र गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में हिन्दू भगवान् ब्रह्मा, विष्णु , शिव का सैकड़ों बार नाम आया हैं।इस लेख में हम भगवान् शिव के गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में प्रमाण देखेगे –

    ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
    ਨ ਡਰੋਂ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋਂ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋਂ ॥
    ਅਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਂ ਆਪਨੇ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਕੌ ਇਹ ਲਾਲਚ ਹਉ ਗੁਨ ਤਉ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥
    ਜਬ ਆਵ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋਂ ॥੨੩੧॥

    देह शिवा बर मोहे ईहे, शुभ कर्मन ते कभुं न टरूं
    न डरौं अरि सौं जब जाय लड़ौं, निश्चय कर अपनी जीत करौं,
    अरु सिख हों आपने ही मन कौ इह लालच हउ गुन तउ उचरों,
    जब आव की अउध निदान बनै अति ही रन मै तब जूझ मरों ॥२३१॥

    Translation: O Lord Shiva grant me the boon, that I may never deviate from doing a good deed.
    That I shall not fear when I go into combat. And with determination I will be victorious.
    That I may teach myself this greed alone, to learn only Thy praises.
    And when the last days of my life come, I may die in the might of the battlefield.
    — Guru Gobind Singh

    Guru Gobind Singh ji says in Chaupai Sahib :
    Kaal pae brahma bap dhara,kal pae shiv ju avtara,kal pae kar bisan prakasa,sakal kal ka kia tamasha
    javan kal jogee shiv keo ,bed raaj brahma jee theo,javan kaal sab lok savara,namaskaar hai tahe hamara
    which means :”Time came when Brahma was created,Time came when Shiva was created,Time came when vishnu was formed,all is play of time
    the lord who created shiva,the lord who created brahma , the source of veda,the lord who created all
    I BOW TO THAT ONE LORD ALONE ”

    God is the creator of all. “He created air, water, fire, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva” (Guru Granth Sahib, 504).
    “He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, who act according to His Will” (Guru Granth Sahib, 948).
    “The performance of countless millions of other devotions is not even equal to one devotion to the Name of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1163).
    “Those who serve Shiva and Brahma cannot find the limits of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 516).
    The ones who serve any other instead of God cannot attain salvation. Salvation is granted only by God.

    “Everyone must serve the One Lord, who created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. O Nanak, the One True Lord is permanent and stable. He does not die, and He is not born” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1130).

    ਆਖਹਿ ਈਸਰ ਆਖਹਿ ਸਿਧ ॥ आखहि ईसर आखहि सिध ॥ Ākẖahi īsar ākẖahi siḏẖ.Shiva speaks, the Siddhas speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਬੁਧ ॥आखहि केते कीते बुध ॥Ākẖahi keṯe kīṯe buḏẖ.The many created Buddhas speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਦਾਨਵ ਆਖਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ आखहि दानव आखहि देव ॥Ākẖahi ḏānav ākẖahi ḏev.The demons speak, the demi-gods speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸੇਵ ॥आखहि सुरि नर मुनि जन सेव ॥Ākẖahi sur nar mun jan sev.The spiritual warriors, the heavenly beings, the silent sages, the humble and serviceful speak.
    ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ केते आखहि आखणि पाहि ॥ Keṯe ākẖahi ākẖaṇ pāhi.Many speak and try to describe Him.
    ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ केते कहि कहि उठि उठि जाहि ॥ Keṯe kahi kahi uṯẖ uṯẖ jāhi.Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.
    ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥ एते कीते होरि करेहि ॥ Ėṯe kīṯe hor karehi.If He were to create as many again as there already are,
    ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥ ता आखि न सकहि केई केइ ॥Ŧā ākẖ na sakahi ke▫ī ke▫e.even then, they could not describe Him.
    ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ जेवडु भावै तेवडु होइ ॥Jevad bẖāvai ṯevad ho▫e.He is as Great as He wishes to be.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ नानक जाणै साचा सोइ ॥ Nānak jāṇai sācẖā so▫e.O Nanak, the True Lord knows.
    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥ जे को आखै बोलुविगाड़ु ॥ Je ko ākẖai boluvigāṛ.If anyone presumes to describe God,
    ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥ ता लिखीऐ सिरि गावारा गावारु ॥२६॥ Ŧā likī▫ai sir gāvārā gāvār. ||26||he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||

    इस प्रकार अनेक उदहारण गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में मिलते हैं जिनसे हमे गुरु साहिबान द्वारा ब्रह्मा,विष्णु और शिव भगवानों की स्तुति का वर्णन मिल सकता हैं। कुछ अज्ञानी सिख पाकिस्तानियों के बहकावे में आकार अलगाववाद की बात करते हैं तो वे यह भी भूल जाते हैं की उत्तर भारत कें सभी हिन्दू परिवारों में सबसे बड़े लड़के को परिवार में सिख अर्थात गुरुओं का शिष्य बनयाया जाता था जिससे की वो देश,जाती और धर्म के लिए अपने प्राणों की बाजी लगा सके। इतिहास को भले ही सिख जूठा सिद्ध करने की कोशिश कर सकते हैं पर क्या गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब को भी जुठ्ला सकते हैं।

  50. anti-agni says

    @vinay, if Saudi government not allow other religious places at their country then you peoples have problem but now supporting the same thing…..what a double standard!

    first pair of this world was Muslim and their religion was islam. Allah has sended hidayat for every society .

    if i ask simple questions on veda then you’ll start twisting the answer . If you read veda then it seems that veda came at later stages of humanity . dayananda already told that there were some languages before Sanskrit .

    without giving these answers you’ll start that it is not veda that is not veda. those four books are veda or not.

    • hinduagnostic says

      adam and eve never existed the whole world population did not come from pairs and sanskrit is defintley one of oldest languages all agree but we cant trace it back more than 2000bc as many of india’s history has been destroyed and defintley vedas is oldest living religious scripture and if saudi government do that then we should also why should we give this freedom of religion but when we go to muslim countries they dont give us?

      • anti-agni says

        @agnostic, my comment was directed to vinay BTW how could you say that humanity not evolved.from one pair? You believe science according to your choice. Science also said that their is no soul and no reincarnation.

        if primary researchees indicating that humanity did not came from one pair then you believe it,do you believe it is final research? No scientigic fact can contradict islam.

        you must always remember that in india more than 30% are non hindu and they have their role in law making. you first unite your hindus on one believe then talk to others.

        • hinduagnostic says

          science does not say soul and reincarnation do not exist they say we have no evidence to believe in them but the truth is science cant go into the spirtual world but they can go into history and the abrahamic beliefs are based on history and islam is full of errors and the different beliefs in hinduism is the greatnesss of hinduism which is how you can find all world beliefs in india in large numbers

    • Vinay Arya says

      @anti-agni
      Change your behaviour.Talk with good manner.

      “first pair of this world was Muslim and their religion was islam”.

      ahahahaha.Pair of world?????Where did you see a pair of world??????/

      “If you read veda then it seems that veda came at later stages of humanity ”

      I read Vedas not you.So I can say something about them not you.Did I say Vedas came after some time?And which are the stages of humanity?Let me see what a Quran-minded man can tell to me.

      “dayananda already told that there were some languages before Sanskrit .”

      Please don’t remain in your dreams Mr.Sanskrit is the first,oldest and the mother of all languages.And where did you see that Dayanand’s sentence?May be in your sweat dreams?

      First sentence “Science also said that their (he meant there)is no soul and no reincarnation”

      Second sentence “do you believe it is final research”.

      So,it is not a final research which says there is no soul,no rebirth.

      • anti-agni says

        @vinay, first read satyathprakash to learn manners. you can see how arrogantly he has written about quran and all the religions.

        you believe in soul even science is denying it but you can’t believe that humanity evolved from one pair because of course science denying it? What a double standard.
        Your moolshankar told you that quran can’t be from God because it is in Arabic so it’ll be unfair and unjust to other language peoples but veda has been given in a new language to make it fair for everyone.

        were those rishi first human on this earth? Actually nothing is clear about veda and first and foremost thing what is veda but as told by aryasamajis that those rishis prayed hard and goes to such higher level that iswara gave them vedas. if those were not first persons thwn they must have some languages and you know as moolshankar told that veda has been given in a new language so Sanskrit is not oldest and not mother for all languages.

        • Vinay Arya says

          @anti-agni

          You said “first read satyathprakash to learn manners”.
          So,you accpeted that Satyarth Prakash can teach manners and is a great book.

          You said “you can see how arrogantly he has written about quran and all the religions.”

          If Satyarth Praksh teaches manners then why do you say him arrogant.Or if he is arrogant why do you tell me to learn manners from that book.Do you want to destroy my character?

          “you believe in soul even science is denying ”

          Science believes what is logical.Arya Samajists prove the existence of a soul.Your body is made up of C,H,N,P etc.Those molecules do not know anything.So,a body formed from such elements should also know nothing.But all of the movements made by an organism are by knowledge.It means that there must be some entity governing the body.The entity is called soul.The soul is you.When you move to right the body moves to right not to left.So,it is you which is called as soul.The sould should not be made up of funadamental elements.Because if it is made up of fundamental elements then it will also be ignorant.So,the soul is considered to be invisible and non-materialistic.

          “Your moolshankar told you that quran can’t be from God because it is in Arabic so it’ll be unfair and unjust to other language peoples but veda has been given in a new language to make it fair for everyone.”

          Swami Dayanand did not refute Quran just because it was in Arabic but for its bad teachings.You are a liar and a cheater.

          “were those rishi first human on this earth?”

          Those four persons were the first persons over this earth.

          • anti-agni says

            @vinay, i think you are another real aryasamaji who never use his brain. my point was your book is satyarthprakash and it is full of arrogant language and false logic and you are telling me about manners? You xan srarch comments by your fellow aryasamjis…word manner not suit you.

            i have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis also. i can’t write all the points here and those would be out of subject. if i have given one point it doesn’t mean that it is only point? Do you not understand common way of writing ?

            Every hindu is unique in his faith and religion. now you are new who is saying that those rishis were first persons? It means veda was not given in new language and those rishis were speaking Sanskrit from childhood, so moolshankar was wrong that veda were given in a new language.

            who were those anarya and kikat about which veda speaking if rishis were first persons? Those prayers of veda in which rishis requesting iswara that give us wealth of anarya and give Victory on anaryan country?

            you peoples give so much contradictory statements?!!!

        • hinduagnostic says

          he criticised all beliefs fairly with questions for the beliefs to answer if their religion is true theres nothing wrong in establising the truth for so many years those questions were left unanswered and you dont understand hinduism or any other beliefs and the muslims and christians were the ones who started criticising and attacking other beliefs and spreading lies about them and like many hindus did not take too much notice until groups like arya samaj came to expose the lies made by muslims and christians and arya samaj were feared throughout india for it and millions of muslims and christians came back to hinduism through them

          • anti-agni says

            @agnostic, satyarthprakash already thoroughly refuted and all the points raised by moolshankr were answered by maulana sanaullah amratsari in haq prakash. you can. download fronn islamhinduism site. if you don’t know about dammam it doesn’t mean dammam doesn’t exists in this world.

            if you ask any question with manners then it is noo problem but read satyarthprakash, it is like i want to know your father’s name and i say that if you’ll not tell me your father’s name within 10 seconds then it means you are bastard.what will you do after listening such question ? And your propaganda that answer has not been given can’t be justified.

            he. has used wrongfully translation of quran and said that my pupils gave it to me and it has been checked by many maulanas. but.in reality translation is wrong and either he has been fooled by his chelaas or he has done it willingly.

            you peoples have double standards for science and Hinduism. sanaullah sb proved that samme you believe from veda but object on Quran.

            researches are going on amd one day it’ll be proved that humanity has been evolved from one pair.

            i think you don’t know the meaning of millions or you are living in fools paradise. even it is impossible that one million Muslim change to Hinduism. just think what you’re writing .

          • Vinay Arya says

            @ant-agni
            “i think you are another real aryasamaji who never use his brain”
            You are citicising other beliefs with no basis.What stupidity did I show?

            “word manner not suit you.”
            so according to allah word manner does not suit us.So,allah is a an orthodox god.

            “have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis also.”
            Detail??I can’t see any detail.He never denied quran on language basis.Can you shw us the proof?

            “now you are new who is saying that those rishis were first persons”
            We are not new.Maharshi Vyasji has said the same.Maharshi valimiki also the same.Maharshi Manu,the most old Rishi also said the same.Brahma,Vishnu,Mahesh(not gods but great humans) also said the same.We are just re-writing the same thing.For proof,you can check their books.Manu smiriti states clearly that those four rishis were agni,angira,aditya and vayu.

            “It means veda was not given in new language ”
            How do you conclude it?Even if it is new it does not mean that is wrong.But this faith is not new but very old as stated above.

            “Those prayers of veda in which rishis requesting iswara that give us wealth of anarya and give Victory on anaryan country?”

            Without knowing about Aryas do not speculate bad.

            “satyarthprakash already thoroughly refuted and all the points raised by moolshankr were answered by maulana sanaullah amratsari in haq prakash”

            The above book has been refuted by many scholars of Arya Samaj like Rajendra Jijyasu,Mahendra Pal Arya,etc.Check Arya Samaj vs Islam on you tube.

            “he. has used wrongfully translation of quran and said that my pupils gave it to me ”

            He has not used wrong translation,said so many mullas.

            “it is impossible that one million Muslim change to Hinduism. just think what you’re writing ”
            yes,millions of Muslims were converted into Hinduism by Swami Shraddhanand.This is the reason he had to die by a muslim with a gun.You are very violent.

            “researches are going on amd one day it’ll be proved that humanity has been evolved from one pair.”Will it take many years?I may die.Why don’t you prove it on the basis of Quran’s science?Why are you waiting for other sicentists?Has Zakir Naik not worked on science in Quran?

        • hinduagnostic says

          who told you maulana amritsari refuted anything he tried is hand to become famous but he was beaten and refuted many times in debates by arya samaj he and his team of muslim were scared of arya samaj that he used ahmadi abdul haq vidthyathi to support him the heretic sect of islam who’s promised mahdi mirza gulam ahmed amritsari tried to attack and swami dayanand saraswati’s translation was not incorrect i checked the translations all of them are correct only the reference for some verses have to be checked for as printing gave wrong reference but verses do exist and the true arya samaj were so feared by muslims in india because through them millions left islam why do you find it hard to believe when you believe islam is fastest growing religion in the world? and now i know why you hate agniveer your a supporter from the fantic islamhinduism website which was refuted when they tried to come on this website tell them if they can to come on this site again we willl refute them again also im sure just like islamhinduism website you want to keep bring up dharam pal arya an ex muslim? and its proven fact gentically all humans did come from a pair we came from a group of people just like how swami dayanand saraswati said

          • anti-agni says

            @vinay, you are behaving like a kid. I was thinking that you know the preface of my points but either you are new to agniveer and aryasamaj or you are following moolshankar. Moolshankar in his book satyarthprakash objected on quran and what he did he just taken any ayat out of context and explained according to his ill will, same think you are doing here. I have asked that if veda contain prayers that give us wealth of these kikta or anaryan countries that it means at the time when veda was landing on rishis mind there were other countries and if tere are countries then there must be language….but what you did ? you just taken a line and said to me that without understand arya why are you objecting onthose (selfish ) prayers. Any kid can understand that my objection was not prayers but I want to prove that at veda’s time there were other civilizations too so veda was not revealed at starting time of humanity.

            Regarding language of quran your answer shows you have not studied satyarthprakash because in 14th samhullas point no 4 moolshankar has written that”iss se aisa samajhna chahiyye ki jis pustak mein pakshpat ki batein payi jayein who poustak ishwar krit nahi ho sakti jaisa ki arabi bhasha main utarne se arab walon ko iska parhna sugam aur anya bhasha walon ko kathin hota hai. Isi se khuda mein pakshpat ata hai aur jaise parameishwar ne SRASHTISTH SAB DESHASTH MANUSHYON PAR NIYAYE DRASHTI SE SAB DESH BHASHAON SE VILAXAN SANSKRIT BHASHA KI JO SAB DESHWASIYON K LIYE EIK SE PARISHRAM SE VISIT HOTI HAI USI MEIN VEDON KA PRAKASH KIYAH. YEH KARTA TO KARTA TO KUCH BHI DOSH NAHI HOTA.????
            DO YOU understand now?? If wanted to say that at that there were only one country or language than his words must be different but here sab desh bhashaon se vilaxan word is showing that there were other languages and civilization at that time.

          • Vinay Arya says

            @anti-agni
            DON’T GO OUT OF YOUR HEAD.sPEAK POLITELY AND STOP SAYING ME A KID.oTHERWISE I HAVE MORE GOOD WORDS FOR YOU..

            Your logics are like a dumb illiterate.Arabi,english,hindi,chinese,japanese,french etc. are man made languages.So,if Vedas were revealed in a language like English or Arabi then it would mean that the God is Pakshpati.Because if the God reveals Vedas in English then it would be a determination to Indians.If it would have been revealed in Sanskrit then it would have mean that the God is not pakshpati.Because Sanskrit is not the language of one country but the language of of the whole world.But he revealed in Sanskrit does not mean that there were other civilisations too.

            If you have an aldol already it does not mean that this aldol which you have was derived from ketone and aldehydes.Already made aldols are found in nature.

  51. dogra7 says

    India has different religions as India has accepted different people who are free to worship.
    Saudi allows only Islam, there you go, and why beacoz as Dr Zakir said 2+2=4, dear god, what utter ruibbish from dr zakir.

    Tjis dr zakir should emigrate to saudi if he belives 2+2=4

  52. anti-agni says

    @vinay, Regarding haque prakash, I have read both the books satyarth and haque and it seems that you have read none. Mr. arya musafir tried to answer some points but his answers were also included in second addition of haque prakash. I have read satyarth prakash and even I can refute all the objections of 14th samhullas.

    First point is that it seems that moolshankar never read whole quran because he used such translation which has not been done by any muslim. So, from many available translations of quran you cant identify which one he used. He was unknown to Arabic and he used translation done by his chelas. I don’t who are those mullas who approved his translation but iam telling you with full confidence that he has used wrong translation at many places. He said that satan(iblis) was farishta (angel) and it is crystal clear from quran that iblis was jinn. It means he has not read full quran and objected wrongly to show his intellectual fallacy.
    Mr. rampal arya also said on you tube in his debates and speeches that allah ordered AJAJEEL to bring dust and then Allah made adam from that dust so why Ajajeel denied to bow down infront of adam that I have brought the dust which you have used. There is no word AjAJEEL iin quranand no where quran says that Allah ordered satan or ajajeel to bring dust??? It means pandit g also not studied whole quran.. now you can review your faith on both of them. If you have simple brain then you can use it to find your way without relying on wrong persons.

    • hinduagnostic says

      anti agni vinay is talkig about when you said ” i have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis ” vinay told you mool shankar didnt deny the quran for only for language basis but denied the quran for many reasons and first you said the translations are wrong and not accepted by scholors but now your are saying they are out of context? as for arabic it is very new language as for sanskrit it is very old and is one of the oldest languages all agree and there was no country in the beginning there was only land the land we now call as indian subcontient is refered to as aryavarta by swami dayanand saraswatias as i know sanskrit is a language the rishis developed through the knowledge(vedas) so that mankind can get some understand of knowledge but its believed that just like now the true knowledge of vedas and sanskrit was lost but then revived and then lost again like it is now by most indians and can you tell me where this rampal arya made these claims about ajajeel im not aware of this? and just because some muslim fantic who needs help from hertic sects of islam like the ahmadi to debate with arya sama jafter he and his team lost debates manytimes before answered them doesnt mean he refuted sathyarth prakash as for iblis many sources say iblis was a disobediant angel but most muslims say he was jin and was made to prostrate adam just like the angels were because the angels and jins were similar rank if you think the translation is wrong which it isnt i will give you translation by islamic scholor yusuf ali ” It is We Who created you And gave you shape;Then We bade the angels Bow down to Adam, and they Bowed down; not so Iblīs;He refused to be of those Who bow down” nowhere does it say the angels and jins were made to prostrate it says only angels where iblis didnt agree to as for swami dayanand saraswati translation it is very similar but the reference is wrong probably because of print the swami dayand saswati full translation says 10:10-17 and while for yusuf ali it is 7:11-18 and you may think im supporting arya samaj im not im looking for truth and i have looked at different beliefs so im thinking of joing arya samaj or sikhism and i recommend you should to and if you think you and your muslims can refuture sathyarth parkash lets see?

      • anti-agni says

        @agnostic, ayat you are referring is of surah baqarah which is surah no 2 in mushaff/book but revealed later ie in madina but in surah kahf surah no 18 which is makki surah and revealed earlier than baqarah it was clear that iblis was jin. You can read in surah kahf
        “Behold! We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam”: They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!”
        It is quranic way that it never emphasize on unnecessary things, if it is already told that iblis was from jin then there is no necessity to repeat it. You can read in surah baqarah which you are referring Allah says
        “And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith”.2:34
        Any person who has not studied whole quran only he can say that iblis is angel and we read quran daily, every one listen complete quran in ramadhan so there is no confusion. My point is valid that pandit rampal and moolshankar both never studied complete quran, they were fooled by their pupils.
        Regarding your objection that why iblis was punished when Allah ordered angels to bow down then if you read quran then it will also clear. When Allah asked iblis why you haven’t bowed down then he must say that you have ordered to angels no me but what he replied? He said that I am superior than adam and I am created from fire and Adam from dust. If he was confused then after hearing Allah’s order he must bow down.
        I hope that you can understand it and now it is clear that moolshankar has fooled everyone. As my past experience aryasamajis now turn the topic to why Allah wanted iblis to bow down…he is most monotheistic person…etc etc, even it is not the topic.
        If you are nice ,man than you should accept it.

  53. anti-agni says

    @hindu agnostic, you are answering just for tge sake of answering. you peoples are very irritating, i have written whole para from satyarth prakash and vinay supposed to answer not you. that para contains words like sabdeshasth, vilaxan which logically proves that there were some countries at the time of veda’s revelation. i have not said that arabic is only point of moolsankr but it was 4th and i have given whole para.

    iblis was from jinn is clearly given in quran and if you read whole quran it will become clear. In that ayat nowhere it is said that iblis was Angel? only a person who is new to Quran can claim that and it is the point that moolshankar never read whole quran he even don’t know that iblis was jin.
    no Muslim believe that iblis was angel because it is clear from Quran . surah baqarah was revealed later but it is in starting in Quran and that ayat in which iblis is jin revealed was earlier. so it is not explained in surah baqarah.

    • hinduagnostic says

      it doesnt matter who it is was for you tried to attack hinduism as a whole and im hindu/future arya samaji and if iblis was not an angel then why does allah from his own words say he made the angels bow down to adam and iblis didnt do it doesnt say angel and jins were made to bow down it shows allah considered iblis to be like an angel and in same rank and i gave you your own quote where you said mool shankar tried to attack quran by basing it on language maybe you changed it when you realised your mistake and i told you that wasnt his reason and mool shankar gives complete verse when iblis say he was made of fire but still if allah wanted only the angels to bow then why did he get angry wheen iblis refused? and it doesnt matter what few tamils think all agree sanskrit is older than tamil it is older than all languages in indian subcontient and many other languages outside as for sathyarth parkash english translation as i know it is done by arya samajis and only few english translations are accepted as i know like dr. chiranjiva bharadwaja,durga prasad etc

    • Vinay Arya says

      I said why don’t you put the right trasnlations here.you have not given the right translations in these 3-4 days and you are saying things out of context.It looks like either translations which Dayanand had were right or quran has not right translation so this kind of book is useless.
      I again say to you put the right ranslations here.

      • anti-agni says

        @vinay, why you want to change the topic? i am not talking about right or wrong translations..

        iblis can’t be translated as angel if yes then show .

        you can search right translation at quranhindi.com/ http://www.quran.com

        • Iblees was an angel as per Quran 2.34 & 20.116 says

          @Anti-Agni
          If you do not have any knowledge of Quran, do not put your garbage . Quran is the highest authority to decide the truth for muslim. And as per Quran verses Iblish was an angel.

          And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)

          And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
          http://www.quran.com

  54. Sanatan Dharma says

    __________that para contains words like sabdeshasth, vilaxan which logically proves that there were some countries at the time of veda’s revelation_____
    Dayanand here wanted to say that Vedic language is the mother of all languages which does not belong to any country, people etc. If God gives knowledge in the language of particular country, God will be partial.
    Here is English translation
    “The Qoran would have been free from this defect, had it been revealed like the Veda in a language which is altogether distinct from all other languages and is not the mother-tongue of any people, just as God, through His justice vouchsafed into us all His Word”

    • anti-agni says

      @sanatani, original satyarthprakash is in Hindi and we know hindi so talk about hindi. What you have given is a wrong translation, no one can translate those lines as you have given. Hindi is showing another meaning and English another.
      vinay, your aldol analogy is not right. i am not saying that Sanskrit is derived from any other language as Tamil peoples claim that Sanskrit is derived from tamil but i am saying satyarthprakash samhullash 14 point 4 in Hindi. showing that at the time when rishi were receiving veda then therr were other civilizations and countries and languages were present . so Sanskrit can’t be oldest.

      if you can say anything about those words of point four then ok otherwise you are wasting my and your time . you peoples don’t understand simple Hindi, always strech the topic,never come on points and claim that you understand philosophies??

      you show that para to any third person and he will support my point.

      • Vinay Arya says

        Why is my aldol analogy not correct?And who said that we are not replying.At least 4 cooments have been given from our side.Instead of refuting my questions and logics you are saying that we are not replying.Please tell me,why is aldol analogy not right?

  55. anti-agni says

    @vinaay,you are not. takng on samhullash 14 point 4, sanatani shows English translation which is not translation. what do you want to say by aldol analogy? it seems that you want to prove that if there were languages present already before Sanskrit origin still it doesn’t mean that those languages are mother of Sanskrit but my was not that. i have explained point 4 and you can show anyone who is neutral and he will support,me. you peoples never come on points .

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @anti-agni
      Can I know which language you assume world oldest language if it is not Vedic language? Which scripture do you think divine / free from all errors. Please suggest me.

      • Sanatan Dharma says

        @Anti-Agni
        As per scientific point of view
        Sanskrit suggested as the best language for use in Computational Linguistics and Artificial Intelligence by NASA. It is the only language in the world which is scientifically precise as was discovered by the NASA scientist Rick Briggs as published in the Artificial Intelligence Magazine
        Rick Briggs:
        “As we shall see, there was a language spoken among an ancient scientific community that has a deviation of zero. This language is Sanskrit.”

    • Vinay Arya says

      I say a bowl you say a toilet !
      Wow!
      I want to say by aldol analogy that Sanskrit is not derived from any other language.Aldol is already present in the earth.And it does not require the presence of any other compound to get formed.Similarly,Sanskrit was present without any presence of other language.You couldn’t understand what I wrote.Aldol is quite hard for you.Just take the example of h2o.Isn’t it already present?If God had just revealed H2 no O2 then life wouldn’t have been possible.Similarly,if God had given Vedas in Urdu then human development wouldn’t have occured.Swami Dayanand clearly says “if God has revealed in other language”.Please lokk at the word “if”.The word “if” does not signify the sure presence of other languages.Swami Dayanand wants to say if God had revealed Vedas in Urdu then it would have been difficulty for Hindus(Indians).So,he revealed in Sanskrit which is the mother of all the languages.

      This I have already explained to you with great detail.

    • hinduagnostic says

      i just told you as i know sathyarth prakash english translation is done by arya samaji and i gave you names that are accepted just like english translation by popular islamic scholors yusuf ali and pickthall is accepted by muslims and no muslim i have come across goes against these translations and i gave you a good explanation but it seems like you being a muslim dont understand what im trying to say?

  56. anti-agni says

    @vinay, your h2o analogy is wrong. can you. not write language name or alphabet which signifies h or o? If h2 was tamil and 02 was arabic and h2o is Sanskrit then Sanskrit can’t be oldest. .

    do you understand Hindi? if yes then explain point no 4 of satyarthprakah because English translation is not correct specially for that para. English translation is saying that there were no languages or countries before Sanskrit but hindi satyarthprash is opposite.

  57. Sanatan Dharma says

    @anti-agni
    _____________-English translation is saying that there were no languages or countries before Sanskrit but hindi satyarthprash is opposite________
    Hindi language also not proving other languages are exist when Veda were revealed. “DESH BHASHAON SE VILAXAN SANSKRIT BHASHA KI JO SAB DESHWASIYON K LIYE EIK SE PARISHRAM ” Here it is clearly said Veda are given in the language(VILAXAN/Divine) which is language above all the
    languages of the world. Explanation is written in today context, in the era in which a lot of languages exist but as per Dayayand Ji Vedic langauge is above all these language..

  58. Vinay Arya says

    Don’t take H2 as tamil and o2 as arabic.It is not a physics equation in which you can put the values and get your desired answer.What I have explained is “If God had just revealed H2 no O2 then life wouldn’t have been possible.Similarly,if God had given Vedas in Urdu then human development wouldn’t have occured because it is not the language of all human beings.”.Do you want that I should solve my words by primary mathematics to make you understand?Even an 8th class student can do it.And can’t you see what others are writing.Can you see what “Sanatan Dharam” has written.

  59. anti-agni says

    @vinay & sanatani, vinay tumhari baat to samajh se pare h kiya tum simple words mein nahi samjha sakte?

    Sanatan mein samajh gaya ki aaplog kiya kehna chahte ho lekin use logically sabit to karo. satyarth prakash likhne wala bhi yahi samajhta tha par jab usne likha to phans gaya kiyunki jaise bhi likho samjha nahi sakte.

    jab likha h ki sab deshon se vilaxan Sanskrit bhasha se kiya jo ki sabdesh walon k liye eik se parishram se prapt hoti h. to agar aaj k liye bhi h to ghalat h kiyunki aryasamaji to musalman aur government ko koste rehte hn Sanskrit ko deshbhasha ban ne par. agar unki tamanna poori hojati to yahan paida hone wala aasani se hasil karleta phir bhi hindi aur Tamil wale k liye hasil karna aasan h.

    aur agar yeh kaho ki woh rishi first log the to kiya yeh unki paidaish ki language thi? Agar han to phir nai kahan hui? Aur phir koi aur option bhi nahi tha iswara k paas kiyunki woh hi akeli language thi.

    agar yeh kaho ki rishiyon ko ved hi Sanskrit mein mile to unki language kiya thi? Unki jo bhi language thi wahi first language aur oldest hui.

    aur sab deshon se vilaxan mein sab deshon ka kiya meaning h? Agar yeh aaj k context mrin to japani bhi sab desho se vilaxan h, Chinese bhi aur Russian bhi to Sanskrit mein kiya khas h?

    Aur phir vedon mein jo prayers hn ki in anaryon aur kikta countries ke pas wealth aur gayen kiya kar rahi hain? Hei iswara ise humein aryano ko do? to yeh countries ya bure logon ka group kaise paida ho gaya agar charon tishi pehla batch the? Burein logon k hone mein to time lagta h aur unki language kita thi?

    Jab tak aap log in points par bat nahi karoge to kiya fayeda? Jalebi tarah ghimana choro aur chemistry ka synthesis side rakho aur logical baat mane wale ho yeh sabit karo….ya moolshankar ka andhanukaran karte ho?

  60. Vinay Arya says

    @anti-agni
    If you knew somewhat Hindi then you wouldn’t have come at wrong meaning.Muslims do not try to know Hindi.I am saying what Swami Dayanand has said in that sentence third and last time.Swami Dayanand wants to say that if Vedas were revealed in Urdu then Indians would have found difficulty in studying Vedas.Similarly,China,Japan,France would have also found it difficult.So,Vedas were revealed in Sanskrit which is the mother of all the languages.Now,by this meaning you think that Sanskrit is not the oldest language.Rather you think,the languages which the four Rishis were having was the oldest not Sanskrit.Where did you find that Rishi knew some language?Vedic scriptures clearly state that Rishi did not knew any language and they were the first persons of the creation.The God revealed the Vedas in the heart of four Rishis in Sanskrit.And Sanskirt language was told to the Sages by the God himself.The Rishi did not knew the language because they were the first generation human beings.

    Now,you are taking the wrong meaning of Dayanand’s words.If Vedas were revealed in Urdu i.e. the language of only Arabs then it would have been discrimination by the God to the others.It means that the God did not reveal the Vedas in a language which was going to be language of one country only.The language of country means a language which is spoken in that country only.So,if God had revealed the Vedas in Urdu then the God had to tell them Urdu.But that language was going to be taught in Arabs only so other countries would have remained untouched from Vedas.Can’t you understand this point?I have already said it.Can’t you refute it?You are leaving most of the line and replying your garbage.

    So,Vedas were revealed in Sanskrit because it was easier to understand by all by equal work.But this logic does not mean that there were other languages too.Because it is a logic and a synergy.And does not at all mean there were other languages.Now,you are taking this logic in a very bad way.Swami Dayanaand has used this logic to make you understand some phenomena.By this logic he has tried to make you understand that the Quran is having teaching which support discrimination.And what kind of this discrimination is this?He has told by this example that a man can’t learn Vedas in Urdu but can learn in Sanskrit because Sanskrit is his mother tongue.And when someone says to him to learn Vedas in Urdu only then it would be a discrimination to that person.This is the example which Dayanaand has used.But you are misinterpretating Hindi language too.

    Before the words of Dayanand you have used Dayanand writes “isase aisa samajhana chahiye ki jis pustak me pakshpat ki baate paayi jaaye,vaha pustak ishwarakrit nahi ho sakata.”And after this he uses the word “jaise ki arabi bhasha me utarane se…”.Now,it is clearly proved that the sentence which you are quoting is an example similarly like I have used the aldol example.The Dayanand’s example has nothing to do with any history of languages before.

    • Vinay Arya says

      If one tries to say what Swami Dayanand has said in some other manner then the meaning of the whole paragraph would be “The book in which teachings of discrimination are found that book can’t be God-made.If one tries to understand what kind of the discrimination is the book showing then it is similar to that discrimination in which an American is forced to learn Quran in Urdu only.But the book of God can’t be of discrimination type.Vedas were revealed in a language i.e. Sanskrit which is not language of one country only.”

      Sentences like “there were other languages before Sanskrit too” are not found in that Paragraph,and hence,what anti-agni is writing is completely false.

    • hinduagnostic says

      i dont think vedic scriptures say when the vedas was put into the hearts and minds of rishis instead i think swami dayanand saraswati said it was beginning because he rejected evoultion as it was a new idea instead i think it was to the first group of humans

      • Vinay Arya says

        Swami Dayanand did not reject evolution just because it was a new hypothesis.Rather he provided evidence of rejection of evolution.Arya Samaj’s great Vedic scholar Swami Vidyanand Saraswati has provided very detailed proof of rejection of evolution hypothesis.Modern new scientists have completely changed evolution.If one species evolved from other then why does not today a monkey transforms into a human being.Why are the Arthropods today not converting into chordates?If you want to read full refutation of nearly 30-40 pages then you can by “Satyarth Bhaskar” by Swami Vidyanandji.Satyarth Bhaskar is an explanation of Satyarth Prakash in details.But you will find too many new things.
        Some mutations can occur in one’s body but a new organism can’t be evolved from earlier one.Like your ears are pierced and it is a change in one’s body.But when that man reproduces his child those child are not having pierced ears.Ifevolution hypothesis is correct which says simple organisms evolve into complex organisms then why is there not any organism greater than human beings.Protozoa=>metazoa>chordate=>homosapiens=>?
        What is the question mark here?Why is this question mark not filled from these thousands and lakhs of years?Why is there no organism greater than human beings after evolution of Homo sapiens before lakhs of years.

        • hinduagnostic says

          yes i know he gave his reasons for it we all know evoultion has its flaws but evoultion does not say we came from monkeys instead we came from a common ancestor who was ape like and monkeys are our cousins and it took millions of years even if it is true it doesnt conflict with hinduism and sikhism

  61. Vinay Arya says

    @anti-agni
    “Sanskrit mein kiya khas h?”
    Learn Sanskrit and then say what is special in Sanskrit.Only those persons can say like you who never read Sanskrit.If you had read Sanskrit then you would have not said so.Sanskrit is the most special and systemetic language of the whole world.But this fact can’t enter into your pungent smelling head.

    ” aryasamaji to musalman aur government ko koste rehte hn Sanskrit ko deshbhasha ban ne par”
    Do you want to stop us from our mission?Who are you to say to us that?anti-agni,don’t go outside your boundary.

    “Aur phir vedon mein jo prayers hn ki in anaryon aur kikta countries ke pas wealth aur gayen kiya kar rahi hain?”
    Do you know Hindi?Do you know how to frame a sentence?Wat do you want to say by this sentence?You are very weak in Hindi.Look at his sentence.You just want to say by such toota phoota sentence that western countries are having wealth but Vedas are having prayers.ullu ke pathe.If there are prayers then what?Can’t one pray to God?Do you know how the Vedas were written?Can’t atheists have wealth?First your sentence is showing your stupidity second your argument is in vaccum.

    “Jalebi tarah ghimana choro ”
    tatti ki tarah babakana band karo musalmano.

    “moolshankar ka andhanukaran karte ho?
    muhammad ka andhanukaran chodo aur mool shanakar ki sacchi rah par chalo musalmaano.

  62. Vinay Arya says

    anti-agni

    You have shown your face.We have replied to your questions again and again now its your time to reply

    (1)How can you prove the Quran to be the book of God?
    (2)How can you prove the existence of Muhammad?
    (3)How can you prove Quran was given to Muhammad?
    (4)Why did God revealed Bible before your Quran?

    Give me answers to this questions and then use your pungent mouth due to meat eating at other places.

  63. anti-agni says

    @vinay, you have shown that you are real aryasamaji. aryasamaji zyadader galiyon se door nahi reh sakta. tum log hindi nahi jante isliye aisa likhte ho warna tumhein maloom hona chahiyye ki shudh hindi koi nahi bolta india mein. mein apni language par comnand show karna nahi chahta bas apni baat pahuchana chahta hun. jab satyarthprakash hindi mein h to english mein kaise poore tarique se samajh ayegi?

    Agar tum logon ki aqal par tale na parein ho to tum samajh sakte the mein kiya kehna chahta tha…koi six grade ka chatra bhi samajh sakta h itni. baar samjhane par. eik baar aur try karta hun …
    west par wealth h ya nahi yeh point nahi h point yeh h ki agar ved jin rishiyon ko diye gaye woh first group the to vedon jin anarya aur kikta deshon ka maal aryon ko dene ki bat h woh anarya country kahan se agayin? Kiya unki language nahi thi? Kiya koi group aate hi anarya ban gaya? Ya ishwara ne doosre desh mein bina language k anarya banakar kuch logon k bheja aur hand in hand vedon mein prayers utardin ki unka maal unke paas kiya kar raha h humein do?

    Jab tm jawab dete ho to adhi baat likhte ho aur phir hero bante ho.

    • hinduagnostic says

      anti agni be a good muslim, resprct other beliefs instead of spreading lies about other beliefs and we hindus have no problem with any muslim most hindus wuld tell you there are many paths to god so they respect all beliefs

  64. Vinay Arya says

    God does not form Anaryas.It is not your Quran book in which Shaitan forms bad persons.Anaryas are formed due to lack of intellect,Vedic knowledge and sympathy like you.But Anaryas can also have wealth due to hard work.Anaryas can also become Aryas.It is not like Musalamanas.Write Hindi in Devnagari or write in roman so that I can get more understanding.You are a real Musalaman who wants to make us Muslims.Take your ass out of here and go back to Arab.

    • Vinay Arya says

      Blind and dumb anti-agni
      I have also asked you questions.But you are not replying to them from last 7 days.It means that you do not have any answer.You have lost in the war.If you think you won give answer to those four questions and other questions asked to you.You think that you will ask a question to me about my religion and I will have no answer and you can make me easily a Musalamaan.ahahaahah.I am not that person.I sad go away from this forum.If we talk stupidity then go to your Pakistan and spread Islam in those countries very bravely.

  65. Vinay Arya says

    “tumhein maloom hona chahiyye ki shudh hindi koi nahi bolta india mein”
    sapano me rahane waale musalaman,tumhe hindi ki kya samajh.yadi hoti to itni kharaba na likhatata.aur is desha me karodo log shuddh hindi bolate hai.tujhe to desh ka bhi nahi pata.ishwar,ved aur jyaan ke baare me mujhe kya batayega.tere desh pakistan me logo ko urdu tak nahi aati hai.ve bhi hindi ka sahara lekara kaam karate hai.

  66. anti-agni says

    @vinay, tum apna aapa kho chuke ho, mein devnagri mein type nahi kar sakta kiyunki mein mobile se type kar raha hun aur mein type karta bhi nahi hindi mein. jab tum samajh sakte ho to jawab kiyun nahi sakte? Kiya aqal pair par latka aye ho? English mein nahi samajhte. hindi mein nahi to answer kaise doge?

    Tum eik mansik beemar ho par logically fail ho.

    • Vinay Arya says

      anti-agni
      Your name denotes against fire.But you can’t even stand before fire.
      hahahaha

      Give answers to my questions and the answers to the question which were asked to us have been provided.Now what are you waiting for.You will defame Vedas and Maharshi Dayanand once again along with me with no basis.And you will again be answered by one of us.Your all allegations are based on your ignorance.Now on the basis of that ignorance you will again say many allegations.There is no end.But better it would be if you give up your tendency understanding that as my earlier allegations are false so my furture allegatios would be false.
      Why can’t you refute my logics except saying “tum apna aapa kho chuke ho,Kiya aqal pair par latka aye ho,English mein nahi samajhte,you have shown that you are real aryasamaji. aryasamaji zyadader galiyon se door nahi reh sakta,vinay tumhari baat to samajh se pare h kiya tum simple words mein nahi samjha sakte? etc. etc.You are unable to refute anything and it is natural.Because Quran minded man can do this much only.You coudn’t prove there used to exist some other civilisations too.

      A again ask “If you have power and logic then answer the following questions :
      (1)How can you prove the Quran to be the book of God?
      (2)How can you prove the existence of Muhammad?
      (3)How can you prove Quran was given to Muhammad?
      (4)Why did God revealed Bible before your Quran?”
      But do not forget to answer the other questions made by us.

      “Tum eik mansik beemar ho par logically fail ho.”
      logically fail ho logically fail ho logically fail ho?are!pahle tum fail to kare fir kahana.
      But i have now more new questions:
      (1)Why does Quran say a donkey can fly?
      (2)Why do you cut a cow in the name of allah?
      (3)Why do you kill non-muslims?
      (4)Why do you not let other temples to be built in your country?
      (5)Why Quran says to bath only on the day of Jumma?
      (6)Why are all terrorists Muslims?
      (7)Why is it well known that Osama was a true follower of Quran?
      (8)Why riots only happen between Hindus and Muslims?
      (9)Why Muhammad married to 14 women?
      (10)Why Muhammad did sex with a 6 year old girl named “Ayesha”?
      Answer the above questions then open your pungent smelling mouth on Vedas.

      • Vinay Arya says

        जब कि सूर्य लपेटा जावे॥और जब कि तारे गदले जावें॥और जब कि पहाड चलाये जावें।और जब आसमान की खाल उतारी जावे॥(मं।७।सि।३०।सू।८१।आ।१।२।३।११॥)

        ये हैं कुरान की बातें।भला सूर्य लपेटा जाता है?यदि लपेट दे तो आईंस्टीन भी फैल है।पहाड चलाये जावें?हाहाहाहा!मुसलमानों का अल्लाह इतना भी नहीं जानता कि प्न तो सूर्य लपेटा जाता है और न ही पहाड चलता है।इससे मुसलमानों का अल्लाह मूर्ख और मुहम्मद ढोंगी सिद्ध होता है।कुरान में सब तर्कविरुद्ध है।आसमान की खाल????तो इससे सिद्ध होता है कि कुरान किसी मूर्ख ने बनाया था और उसको मानने वाले भी मूर्ख हैं।

        • anti-agni says

          @vinay, kiya bhainse ka dimagh h tere paas? Tameez se baat nahi kar sakta? Apne aap ko arya kehta h kiya yeh apni tareef nahi h? NOBLE VINAY? Satyathprakash parh parh kar aqal par andhkar cha gaya h. tu apne jawab dobara oarh tune jawab hi kahan diya h poora? Jab poocha jata h ki anarya log kahan se aa gaye to kabhi kehta h ki anarya satan ki tarah paida nahi hote balki bure karmon se hote hn aur kabhi kehta h ki anaryon k paas maal ho to kiya aaryon par na hon?

          Sanatani ne kuch answer dene ki koshish ki par satyarthprakash ko jhutla kar aur arabi ko accept karke. tujhse yeh poocha h ki anaryon k desh ban gaye to kiya eik pal mein ho gaya? Jab ved receive karne wale rishi pehle the to anarya kahan se agaye aur unki language kiya thi? Kiya anarya first batch mein the? Tu kisi aur se parhwa kar sanajh ki mein kiya keh raha hun.

          jab ved pehle group k logon ko mile aur jab tak koi language bhi develop nahi hui thi to bure logon k group k group kaise paida ho gaye? Aur vedon mein prayer bhi aa gayi . iska matlab ved civilization mein baad mein aaye hain .

          yeh site ved k liye h Quran par puche gaye sawal entertain nahi kiye. jayenge. aur iblis jinn h par satyarthprakash mein Angel likha h yeh to mante ho? Satyarthprakash ghalat sabit hui na!

          • Vinay Arya says

            @anti-agni
            tu kuch bhi kar le mai satya dharma ka rakshak tha aur rahunga.tu chahe mujhe pagala kahe va koi aur gali de.mai to itane samajhata hu ki dharm ki raksha karana mera farja hai aur use mai nibha raha hu.tu kaun hota hai mujhe bahakaane waala.
            maine pratyeka prashna ka puri detail jaba diya.tumhari taraha maine koi gali bhi nahi di.tumhe pata hai tumhari aur tumhare paigamber ki arya samaj me nahi chalane waali hai.haahahah
            tum kara bhi kya sakate ho.maine kaha ki anarya apane avidya se paida hote hai.kya isme ved ka dosh hai.kya maali ke baag me fal ke alawa ghasa paida nahi hoti hai.yaha tark mai tumhe de chuka hu.fir bhi tumhari buddhi me kuch nahi baithata hai.kyonki quran jo padh liya hai.

            tum mere prashno ka uutar do.aur kuch mai nahi chahataa hu.
            yadi is baar uttar nahi mile to yaha samajhana tu haar gaya.

          • Sanatan Dharma says

            @Anti-Agni
            ______Sanatani ne kuch answer dene ki koshish ki par satyarthprakash ko jhutla kar aur arabi ko accept karke____
            I also believe Quran is collection of wrong teachings in its entirety. Although some verses in Quran true but most of its teachings false and wrong.
            You are talking Iblees was Jinn. But Quran clearly says Iblees was an Angle. Are these verse of Quran wrong?

            And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)

            And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
            http://www.quran.com

          • Sanatan Dharma says

            Secret of DR Ali Sina win and challenge to Muslim in “Ali Sina words”
            “Anyone can win when debating against Islam. The reason I win my debates with Muslims is not because I am smarter than them. It is because they are defending a indefensible argument. Muslims are in a no-win position.

            Let us say person A puts himself inside a well and person B is standing on the ground. Then person A challenged person B to throw stones at each other. Who do you think will win? Strength does not matter here. It is the position that matters.

            Muslims have placed themselves inside a deep well. Any child can stone them to defeat,”

  67. Sanatan Dharma says

    @Anti-Agni
    Veda are not subject of language but Veda are universal, eternal, everlasting truths. Truth which do not relate only to some place, people etc.
    When we sayn “rabbi alAAalameen” (God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds), “Ayam Gauhu Swaha (this earth revolves around the Sun in the space) etc. etc. are Veda. Whatever “universal, eternal, everlasting truths” in Quran, Puran, Ramayan, Bibal are Veda. Knowledge whichever is not eternal, everlasting and universal in these books are not Veda.

    • anti-agni says

      @sanatani, you peoples are confused . uf veda is true knowledge then what about point number 4 of samhullash 14? “Ved ka prakah Sanskrit mein kiya” and you know Quran is in Arabic and rabbul alameen is arabc then how could be veda?

      Ya to tum ghalat ho ya satyarthprakash …aur satyarthprakash to h hi ghalat. iblis ko farishta bataya h jabki woh jinn h..

      • Sanatan Dharma says

        @anti-agni
        I have nothing to do with Sayarth parkash and Moolashankar. I believe God is eternal, everlasting, universally one. So, God knowledge also should be eternal ,everlasting and universal. This knowledge is called “Veda” in one word. If any book does not have such knowledge which is eternal, everlasting and universal that is not from God. Although some people claims only rig, yaju, Sam, and Athar ( Four books) are collection of universal truths. Until now I also found it to be true. But if I found story of any person, place in these books I will reject this idea that these four books have Veda in complete form.

      • Sanatan Dharma says

        @Anti-Agni
        __________uf veda is true knowledge then____
        Not only true but this knowledge should be universal, eternal, everlasting to be called Veda. Such as “rabbi alAAalameen” (God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds), “Ayam Gauhu Swaha (this earth revolves around the Sun in the space)

  68. anti-agni says

    @vinay, jab tum satyarthprakash ki eik baat ko nahi prove kar sakte to samajh lo ki kaise bewaqoof banaya gaya h satyarthprakash mein. moolshankar k jo man mein aya likhta raha aur tum log aqal ko kahin chor kar ya tala laga kar parhte ho.

    tum sabit hi nahi kar sakte ki Sanskrit first language thi. bahut questions hain jo bata nahi sakte.

    • ganesh says

      Truth is unchangeable and hence cannot be corrupted…Truth never ceases and hence always exist…Thats why God gives first true knowledge ie Vedas to humans at inception of civilization since God also always exist….Since God is reality, his knowledge is also real ie truth & so unchangeable……So Vedas are also unchangeable and cannot be corrupted……Hence truth = vedas proved…. ;)…In this way without any scripture ,a human can understand what is truth by understanding nature of truth ..:)

    • Vinay Arya says

      anti-agni
      I have porved what Dayanand wrote but your Quran minded brain can’t understand it.to samajh le teri aqal me tere mullo ka tatti bhara pada hai.and anti agni i am saying last time.stop saying baaad words …

      otherwise iwill think you are a dog who just barks at others.
      Answer my questions anti-agni answer.

      ahahahah

    • Vinay Arya says

      @anti-agni
      abe!tu muhammad ka stitva to siddha karke dikha.tu to wo bhi na kar saka.to samajh le tere mullao ne tujhe kitna bewkuf banaya aur tum aqal ke gobar us ko maanate chale aaye.
      ahahahah

    • Vinay Arya says

      @anti-agni
      abe!tu muhammad ka astitva to siddha karke dikha.tu to wo bhi na kar saka.to samajh le tere mullao ne tujhe kitna bewkuf banaya aur tum aqal ke gobar us ko maanate chale aaye.
      ahahahah

  69. Sanatan Dharma says

    @anti-agni
    We should not stick to any book which divides the people on name of religion, worship etc. It can not be book revealed by God. Moolashanker may be wrong somewhere but his intention was pure. He was against the book which promotes hatred, violence. So he written in Satyarhtparkas about Quran. According to him Quran is not the book given by Allah /God. Quran verses invoke the people to fight against Idol worshipers and non-believers. Idol worship or non-worship does not do any harm to anyone including Allah. Then for what Allah punishes Idol worshiper and non-worshiper eternally. If no victim exist.

  70. anti-agni says

    @sanatani, if you yourself claiming that i have won the debate then yes you are winner a self approved winner. i have never seen ali sina’s debate then how can he win? I have given you ayat http://www.quran.com/18:50. Surah kahf ayat 50 which directly telling you that iblis is from jinn then . still you want to believe that iblis was Angel then it is your problem . it is our faith thay Angels have no free will but jinn and human have free will so if iblis is angel then he can’t deny Allah’s order. if aruasamaj have satanic angels then it is your problem .

    vinay tumhare dimagh mein bhunsa h kiya? Mein poonch kiya raha hun aur jawab kiya de rahe ho?

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @anti-agn
      __________-Surah kahf ayat 50 which directly telling you that iblis is from jinn then ___________
      But these Aayat clearly telling Iblees was an angle, why not you read them
      And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)

      And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
      http://www.quran.com
      ________vinay tumhare dimagh mein bhunsa h kiya____
      I am giving you proof from Quran where Allah says iblees was an Angle. Are these verses wrong.

      • anti-agni says

        @sanatani, i am also giving you proof from quran but you are not trying to understand. you show from quran where it is saying that iblis is from angel?
        in sutrah kahf it is mentioned earlier that “And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.” 18:50
        those ayat which you are showing are of later revealations so there was no need to tell it again. if you can add anything then its ok but you are streching it without any meaning.

        your fellow aryasamaji claim in this website(you can search previous arguments at agniveer) that iblis was jinn so he was not supposed to prostrate because that order was directed to angels so his punishment is wrong? first you peoples decide what you want tyo say?

        your both arguments are negating by just simply reading and understanding the quran. you are saying from quran that iblis was angel and same quran is saying that when Allah asked why you have not prostrated then he repplied
        “And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
        [ Allah ] said, “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?” [Satan] said, “I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay.”” surah araaf ayat 11-12

        if he was angel then he must say that you have created me from light(noor) because malaika/angels have been created from noor.
        @vinay, tere to samajh hi nahi aaya ki maine kiya poocha aisa kar kisi se mera comment parhwa le aur samajh ki mein kiya kahna chahta hun. kabhi kisi ko dekha hai apne aap ko noble claim karte hue? eik taraf to tum kehte ho ki arya and anarya karam k adhar par nahi aur khud hi claim kar rahe ho ki mein arya hun ya mein noble hun? tum konhote ho decide karne wale?

        • Ex-Muslim says

          There are several questions that I have which to my knowledge have not yet been answered by Islam:
          1- If the whole universe (all the stars and planets) were created for the earth then it should surround the earth, but here the earth is surrounding the sun and that surrounds the galaxy. The Quran failed to mention this.
          2- The whole universe was created for humans, the stars at night are used to find your path, etc., but there are billions of planets in the universe. Are they too created for us? What is the use for humans in this?
          3- Allah created all humans from two humans (Adam and Hawwa). Their sons and daughters were sisters and brothers, how could they marry and reproduce among themselves?
          4- Prophet Nooh collected a pair of all the animals on the earth in his Ark. How would it be possible to collect them all? There are still unnamed and unidentified animals on earth. There are also many variety of animals in its own genus, for example; there are more than 200 types of frogs, 300 types of snakes and etc.,
          5- Human and chimpanzee DNA match over 99%, why is it so?
          6- Science has proved that millions of animals lived before the human, why?

          I have left islam for my self respect and for future of my kids as I dont want them to be called terrorists….I feel islam is not for current age and shud be voided.I considering following Buddhism and Hinduism..

          Let me know if any muslim can answer me…

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @anti-agni
      Brother, it is very tough task for Muslim to read Ali Sina. But if you have guts I advise to read him.
      alisina.org

      • anti-agni says

        @sanatani, bro i have read alisina many times and i found him wrong. i can refute his arguments but it depends upon perception. i have not seen any debate of ali sina with any renowned muslim and previously you were saying that ali sina have won all the debates with muslims?

        why you peoples contradict everytime.

        • Sanatan Dharma says

          @anti-agni
          _________i can refute his arguments_____
          Why not you refute and win 100000 USD? I am searching such a great person.
          What you think about Mubahila. I liked this great Islamic practice, one of the greatest Islamic way to judge the truth. All visitors please read Mubahila.
          http://alisina.org/blog/2012/02/17/mubahila-the-islamic-cursing-tournament/
          Mubahila: The Islamic Cursing Tournament

          _________ peoples contradict everytime________
          What is my fault. Allah is not omniscient. Allah was not aware about Iblees would deny to bow down before aadam. Why not Allah gives us order directly to worship him as he given to angles to bow down before aadam.

  71. anti-agni says

    @vinay, i am repeating my question “tujhse yeh poocha h ki anaryon k desh ban gaye to kiya eik pal mein ho gaya? Jab ved receive karne wale rishi pehle the to anarya kahan se agaye aur unki language kiya thi? Kiya anarya first batch mein the? Tu kisi aur se parhwa kar sanajh ki mein kiya keh raha hun.

    jab ved pehle group k logon ko mile aur jab tak koi language bhi develop nahi hui thi to bure logon k group k group kaise paida ho gaye? Aur vedon mein prayer bhi aa gayi . iska matlab ved civilization mein baad mein aaye hain .”

  72. anti-agni says

    @vinay, “हे इन्द्र, अनार्य देशों के कीकट वासियों की गौओं का तुम्हे क्या लाभ है? उनका दूध सोम में मिला कर तुम पी नहीं सकते. उन गौओं को यहाँ लाओ. परमगन्द (उनके राजा), की संपत्ति हमारे पास आजाए. नीच वंश वालों का धन हमें दो. [ऋग्वेद ३/५३/१४]
    ये अनार्यों के धन और संपत्ति को लूटने की कैसी प्राथना वेदों में की गई है?
    ‘कीकट’ शब्द की व्याख्या करते हुए यास्क आचार्य ने अपनी पुस्तक ‘निरुक्त’ में लिखा है,
    कीकटा नाम देशो अनार्यनिवासः [निरुक्त ६/३२]
    अर्थात कीकट वह देश है जहां अनार्यों का निवास है. इस पर टिप्पणी करते हुए प्रसिद्ध आर्यसमाजी विद्वान पं. राजाराम शास्त्री ने लिखा है- “कीकट अनार्य जाती थी, जो बिहार में कभी रहती थी, जिस के नाम पर बिहार का नाम कीकट है.” (निरुक्त, पृ. ३२१, १९१४ ई.). स्वामी दयानंद ने ‘कीकटाः’ का अर्थ करते हुए लिखा है-
    “अनार्य के देश में रहने वाले मलेच्छ “
    तो पंडित जी अब आप ही फेसला कीजिये कि ये दूसरों का धन लूटने की स्वार्थी प्रार्थना है या नहीं. मैंने केवल एक उदाहरण दिया अन्यथा ऐसी स्वार्थी प्रार्थनाओं के अतिरिक्त वेदों में कुछ और है भी नहीं.
    Reality:
    1. Another shameless act of fraud. Am getting tired and bored countering such stupid allegations now. Perhaps we deserve more intellectual haters.
    2. When it has been clearly established that Anarya means terrorist and the ‘allegators’ have themselves given reference from Nirukta and Swami Dayanand (I am not sure of later source), where is the confusion? you can read here http://agniveer.com/vedas-hatred-2/

    veda saying about terrorist states?

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @Anti-Agni
      The translation you have given Not Vedic. Whatever teaching as I said not true, universal, eternal not Veda.
      In the Mantra 3/53/14 tells about Amongst the ignorants (Anarya), the cows are not taken care of/nursed, hence, the number of cows does not increase there. Similarly, the good qualities and righteousness does not progress amongst the Anarya. Always refrain from anarya’s act like theft, cowardliness, looting, raping, killing of cow etc., making slave to man/woman, incest, pedophile. Such wrong doer never get to God. (This is a guideline from God)
      Kikat are the countries/towns/ villages like Pakistan, Afganistan etc.. where Anarya resides, Terrorism camp flourished, Animals are killed for tong test. In India also many kikat village exist. USA attacked on Afganistan & Iran to destroy the Anarya like Osama Bin Laden & Saddam Hussain etc. India also follow the same by destroying Anaryas living in pakistan & India.

    • Vinay Arya says

      Obtain true translation of Vedas from aryasamajjamnagr.org.And show us where we are wrong.I told it earlier too.But your Quranic brain can’t know it.Your translations are false.

  73. anti-agni says

    if veda is saying about kikta or anarya then it means there were terrorist satates at the time of veda then from where they have come into existance in no time?

  74. anti-agni says

    You are group of fool peoples you never try to understand what i am asking. my question is about how could be veda came through first group of peoples if it contains details regarding kikta or anaryan or iran or Afghanistan like countries? how could anaryan peoples grow so much that they have made anaryan countries even vefa are coming and first batch is present ?

      • Sanatan Dharma says

        @Amul Arya(Abu Masood)
        Veda do not contain name of any country, people etc. Veda are for whole mankind. Veda have no history of people. Veda are eternal, everlasting truths.

  75. Vinay Arya says

    God know everything hence he has knowledge of every person.So,he wrote about terrorists in Vedas does not mean that terrorists existed.Ishwar is “Sarvajya”.He is not like allah who is “alpajya”.

  76. Sanatan Dharma says

    @anti-agni
    As per Veda in the inception of universe God creates thousands/lacs of people (Man & Woman). God never supports incest. Incest is unforgivable sin. When this universe get to destruction, God creates the universe again and souls take birth according to their past Karma (Deeds) they did in previous universe. Here Veda Mantra guiding us not to become terrorist/sinner state by doing bad deeds like theft, cowardliness, looting, raping, killing of cow etc., making slave to man/woman, incest, pedophile. Such wrong doer never get to God.

    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/02/17/mubahila-the-islamic-cursing-tournament/
    Mubahila: The Islamic Cursing Tournament

  77. Vinay Arya says

    Actually there were very less or no terrorist in Vedic times.People at that time knew terrorist like persons can exist due to their higher level of intellect.And God has the highest intellect.So,why to wonder if he has said so. But after time the human beings showed laziness in the study of Vedas and hard work which lead to the destruction of the Vedic era.Now,many persons like muslims due to lack of knowledge of Vedas bombs in Mumbai and are hanged today.Ex.Kasab.

    anti-agni
    Why are all of the terrorists Muslims?

  78. Vinay Arya says

    Muhammad did sex with a six year old girl and married to 14 women.
    So,Muhammad was a prosecutor and a demon who killed many persons.

  79. Sanatan Dharma says

    @Vinay Arya
    Yes Instruction can be given. Let us say, Agniveer gives instruction not to write abusive words for woman that does not mean visitors are writing abusive words. This is just instruction from the beginning.

  80. anti-agni says

    @vinay, niyog k zariye paida hue kamine insaan tu kiya sahi nahi bol sakta..tum logon ke paas jab koi jawab nahi rehta to aisi batein bolne lagte ho ki koi musalman yahan na ruke. par hazrat Muhammad sallalahu alaihi wasallam ko agar abuse karoge to humein ya to tumhein rokna hoga ya yahan se jana hoga.

    Agar himmat h to humare saamne bol. par jaisa moolshankar ne likha h aur tum yahan bolte ho yeh aryasamajiyon k liye musalmano k dil mein dushmanayegi paida karega.

    hazrat Muhammad k bare mein bolte waqt ahtiyat kara karo.

    • Vinay Arya says

      @anti-agni
      vyabhichar ke zariye paida hue ve tu kya sahi nahi bol sakataa hai.tum log jab mere dash yaksh prashno ka uttar na de sake to yaha se bhagate phire.
      za be chavanne za!arya samaji bhagvan ki santane hai.hum tujh jaIse cockrocho se kya darenge.aur tum Maharshi Dev Dayanand Saraswati par apani sadi gali juban band karo to hi thik rahega.aur tera muhammad to that bhi nahi.aur muhammad 6 varsh ki ladaki ke sath kukarm kiya karata thaa.aur usake path par chalane waale tere jaise deshdrohi hi ho sakate hai.yadi hiimat hai to mere prashno ka javab de anyatha yaha se tu dafa ho ja.

  81. anti-agni says

    Garbhwati MAA ne beti se pucha kya chahiye tujhe,?
    Bahan ya bhai….!!
    Beti boli ‘Bhai’.
    Maa; Kis k jaisa?
    Beti: Ravan sa.
    Pita ne dhamkaya, Maa ne ghura, gaali deti hai….?
    Beti boli ‘Q Maa’
    Behan ke apmaan par rajya vansh aur pran luta dene wala…Shatru estri ko harne ke baad bhi sparsh na karne wala…Ravan jaisa bhai hi to har ladki ko chahiye aaj.
    Chaya jaisi sath nibhane wali garbhwati, nirdosh patni ko tyagne wale Maryada Purushottam sa bhai lekar kya karungi main,
    Aur
    Maa, Agni parekcha, 14 baras vanvaas aur Apharan se laanchit bahu ki aahein tum kab tak sunogi aur kab tak Ram ko hi janoge……!!!
    MAA SISAK RAHI THI
    PITA AWAAK THA……..

    • Has Rama banished Sita Ji? says

      It is a false charge that a great dignitary like Sri Ram, who was a great philosopher of Vedas, listen and agree with dhobis charges. Secondly, Sri Ram never sent Sita to exile. Luv and Kush were born at his palace in Ayodhya.
      During the medieval period India faced many attacks. So, Scripture were corrupted to destroy the culture by foreigners and traitors.

      Valmiki Ramayana (commented by Paramhansa Sh. Jagdishwaranandji Saraswati) Valmikiji states about Sri Ram that Sri Ram was “ved vedang tatvajyenha’ i.e., he was learned of Vedas and in Vedas, maths and science subjects are given in detail.

      As regards Vedas, Vedas describe only knowledge especially three education- i.e., Gyan kand, Karma Kand and Upasana kand. So, there is no story or event in Vedas. Vedas are eternal knowledge.

  82. Vinay Arya says

    @anti-agni
    arab me kuch jangali baithe the.
    ek lakkadbagghe jaise dikhne waale aadami ne socha ki vo paigambar banunga aur duniya ko tabah karunga.
    jab muhammad se pucha gaya ki tum shresth dharm kise maanate ho.
    tab vaha lakkadbaggha(muhammad) bola “choti ladkiyo ke sath balatkar karana va kaafiro ki nirdayata purna hatya karana”
    tum log ne lakkadbagghe se kaha “tum to rakshas ho”
    tab muhammad ne kaha “meri iijat karane ke liye dhanyavad.

    isase siddh hota hai ki muhammad ek chor,daku,pakhandi,vyabhichari,atankavadi tha.aisa logo ko hindu bahine kabhi apana bhai nahi banayenge.hindu bahine hamesha Bhagvan Shri Ram jaisa hi bhai banana chahengi.

    “Give answers to my ten question”.

  83. anti-agni says

    @vinay. tu to arya h “noble” apne munh miyan mithoo….tu itna ganda kaise bol sakta h? Hum to malecha anarya hn humein to ganda bolna h shobha deta h.

    • Jay Arya(hinduagnostic) says

      anti agni you have lost you havent answere anything me,santana dharma,vinay arya refuted you in everything you said

    • Vinay Arya says

      anti-agni
      where are the answers except “vinay is stupid”,”Dayanand is stupid”.”Satyarth Prakash is nothing”,”Hinduism is nothing”.I am waiting for the answers.

      “Hum to malecha anarya hn humein to ganda bolna h shobha deta h.”

      to isme galat kya hai bhaiyaji.aapko ganda bolna shobha deta hai.aap mlech hain.to kripaya Vaidik dharm ko apanakar apana charita noble kyo nahi karate?

  84. Sanatan Dharma says

    @anti-agni
    Is it wrong to tell the truth? Either you deny charges that Mohammed was engaged in sex with 6 years old girl, marriage with daughter in law, looting the non-believers, etc. or be ready to listen abusive word for him. Because such terrorist, looter, pedophilia deserve hate of people.

    greatest Islamic way to judge the truth.
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/02/17/mubahila-the-islamic-cursing-tournament/
    Mubahila: The Islamic Cursing Tournament

  85. anti-agni says

    Sanatani i am saying you are worst person on the earth,can you deny the charges? Can you debate me on this topic? If you will win then ill give you 1000000USD. but i will be judge of the debate like ali sina is judge of his debates.

    if you abuse prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam then we will take revange…it is obligatory on us.

    we don’t want to debate on thoae topics because you are liars and fool hate mongers. i myself have answered on those points many time here at agniveer but still you keep on repeating the same like fool parrots.
    Can you tell me who was six years old? or who was daughter in law? Do you understand the meaning of law? If you can’t prove or explain who is six year old child then my all allegations on aryasamajis will be proved.

    you can’t control your tongue because you are real follower of moolshankar.

    • Jay Arya(hinduagnostic) says

      you call what you said answering? you havent answered anything that is why we keep repeating stop being like fake zakir naik/IRF and islamhinduism ask me ill answer all your allegations and will teach you islam aswell?

  86. anti-agni says

    @sanatani. pehle vinay ne mujhe galiya deni start karin tab mein bad tameezi par aaya. gaali mein phir bhi nahi dunga…islam mein kisi k devi devtaon ko bura bhala kehna mana h. apni baat ache tareeqe se b rakhi ja sakti h.

    ved k barein mere questions valid hn aur tm log answer halaat k hisab se badalte rehte ho….agar koi eik baat kahoge to phans jaoge. itna baar baar poochne k bad yeh bataya ki shuruaat mein lakho log aaye jo foran arya aur anarya mein bat gaye ya phir vinay k according aage aane wale halaat k liye ved mein aisa likha. par agar agniveer par ved section mein parhoge to likha h some says this and some says that you can believe anything . kuch clear nahi h.

    kai maheeno s raj.hyd yeh keh raha tha ki sages ne bahut samay tak tapasya ki tab unhein ved diye gaye. aur search karlo har jagah alag baat h.

    Tumhari beti ki shadi hogi to kiya tum yeh likhoge ki meri beti xyz larke se sex karne ja rahi h to please aap zaroor ayein? kiya baat shalinta se nahi rakhi ja sakti? shadi ko sex hi kehte ho tum log ya apni kunthit mansikta ko santusht karte ho aisa likh likh kar? Kiya aise pooche gaye sawal ka koi jaab dega?

    Tum fb par search karo ayniveer k fans har arya sirf aur sirf musalmano k khilaaf nafrat phaila raha hoga.

  87. anti-agni says

    @sanatani. yeh to mujhe maloom h ki tu pehle truth seeker aur pata nahi kitne namon se comment kar chuka h. Tera last comment jab bhi parhta gun dimagh ghumjata h.

  88. anti-agni says

    @sanatani, read my previous comments you haven’t answered anything… who was six year old child….what is law? Do you call sex to the marriage? And all those arguments .

    • Vinay Arya says

      @anti-agni
      jhooth bolane ki bhi seema rakh.
      Vedic scriptures says to serve Brahmacharya even in married life.Only donkeys like you can say that we say marriage to be sex.
      “sharab ki nadiya aur usme khub sari aurate.yaha hai kuran ke swarg ka swarup.
      He murkha!tu apani dushtata tyag de.ishwar tera bhala karega.

  89. says

    @anti-agni ….
    plz enlighten me on this , that When Muhammad was killed / died, Quran was not in book form. Shia’s say that Imam Ali collected verses & gave it name of “Quran”. Sunni’s say that Abu Bakr gave the name Quran. Shia say that 3rd Khalifa Usman burned ORIGINAL QURAN & origianl Quran in not AVAILABLE. Muhammad never made verses in book. Who compiled & named it Quran ?
    Bukhari Hadees :- Book 60, Vol 6, Hadees 201
    Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al?Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra’ were killed). `Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, `Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra’ (those who know the Qur’an by heart) at other battle?fields, whereby a large part of the Qur’an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur’an.” Abu Bakr added, “I said to `Umar, ‘How can I do something which Allah’s Apostle has not done?’…….”

  90. anti-agni says

    @aryasamaji, what you peoples write in invitation card? My daughter is going to sex with anu arya sp all aryas are invited……yours vinay noble.???????

    Will you accept my answer? You can have your answer at answering-islam.com.

    If you are interrested to understan then study Arabic for 10-15 days. there were different ascent or pronunciation in arabic. that time peoples writing according to their pronunciation. like if you read surah fatiha surah one ayat one then you can read alhamdulillahi. but sone read it as alhamdolillahay and for their convenience they were writing in that way. so confusion may arise in future for non arab also which pronunciation is right

  91. anti-agni says

    Quran can never be corrupted/quean is protected, Muslims always tell it and it is documented by them that hazrat usman burned those papers which were written according to different pronunciation, if there was anything wrong then they should hide that. suppose if thosee papers were not burnt then you peoples start shouting that i have oldest paper. and it has o instead of u so Allah protected it from your sharr.

    sahaba devoted their lives for Quran how could they tolerate anything wrong with Quran?

    you can see it was case of later stages after abubakr and umar when islam sprd in non arab countries .

  92. Vinay Arya says

    @anti-agni
    “what you peoples write in invitation card”
    Can you show us any invitation card in which you find so?

    What is the scientific evidence that Muhammad existed?

    • anti-agni says

      @vinay, i think you have short term memory loss or you are not mature enough to understand comments. i was not talking about alll comments but only previous comment in which i have asked who was six yyear old.

      Have you evrr used word marriage for hazrat aisha and hazrat Muhammad ? She was not six year old.

      tu jhooton ka sardar h kiya har baar conplete context likhna parega? Simple si baat baar baar batani parti h. hosakta h tune iit qualify karliya ho par common sense nahi h. pehle tune. mujhe ullu ka patha likha maine nahi. Ved k barein mein tumhare jawab contradictory hote hn even agniveer k ved section se bhi. usmein likha h 4 rishi ko mile yeh bhi sahi aur 144 ko yeh bhi sahi.

      prhle brahma ne sikha yeh bhi sahi aur pehle rishiyon ne sikha yeh bhi sahi.

      himmat h to kisi musalman k samne hazrat Muhammad ko gali bak. tum nafrat phailate ho internet par. facebook par maine search kiya har aryaver bas Muslims k khilaaf nafrat phaila raha h. ved to mein to kuch h nahi phailane. ko.

  93. Amul Arya(Abu Masood) says

    sikhism was one of the beliefs i was thinking of converting to from islam i still have great respect for it and see the similarties between the views of the learned arya samaj and sikhism

  94. Satyen says

    @ Ex-Muslim and Amul Arya,

    So nice to see two of my brothers coming home after ao many centuries/decades/years. Welcome home of divinity and rationality. Here, you can always reject the false and accept the truth without fearing the hell and heaven. Ishwar is always with you and your deeds will decide your fate, not any prophet or somebody on the seventh heaven. Enjoy your life here and hereafter without undergoing any test and cravings for the hoors. Also save your progeny from from being misguided to fight for some dead Muhammad in the name of Allah. Your progeny will always be thankful to you for bringin them to light from darkness.

    OM Tat Sat

      • RAMESH says

        As per Veda , God has given us budhi(only to us human being) for proper logics and analysis of situations/beliefs.Please accept the truth as ‘ truth always prevails’.

    • anti-agni says

      @satyen. enjoy like every one enjoing in india without any fear of hell fire taking bribe with utmost effort. so cheers

  95. anti-agni says

    @@krisna. how many times you want to be mentioned for existence? Quran was revealed on hazrat Muhammad s.a.w then why should address with name every time.

    i am writing this comment for you then why should i write krisna rao every time. i don’t know where you left your reasoning skill when you talk on islam.

    • Jay Arya(hinduagnostic) says

      i think krishna is trying to say why is muhammed only mentioned 4 times when he is last prophet for all humanity?

  96. Albert says

    Chinese are desperately searching the following address as mentioned in wiki because they want to establish their colony there:
    “Seven Heavens in the Qur’anThe Qur’an mentions the existence of seven heavens:

    See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the Sun a Lamp?(71:15-16)
    Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion; and He is able to do all things. Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the Almighty, the Oft-Forgiving; Who has created the seven heavens one above another; you can see no fault in the creation of the Most Gracious.(67:1-3)

  97. VBS says

    Seven heaven address
    Moon as a light and Sun as the lamp. Chinese need to have some IQ. This address must be part of solar system.

    Only problem is moon does not have its own light, it shines due to Sun’s light only. So some wrong selection of seventh heaven’s lighting system! A solar power plant will be required there.

    Any way, Chinese should not take more time in finding the seventh heaven because it is in our solar system only.

    One doubt, will the Chinese not make it Xinjiang province?

  98. Albert says

    THE EARTH IS FLAT

    Title of the Book: “Evidence that the Earth is Standing Still.”
    Author: Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ben Baz.
    Editor: Islamic University of Medina.
    Year: 1395 AH [1974 CE]
    City: Medina, Saudi Arabia.
    Page: 23.

    He said in his book: “If the earth is rotating as they claim, the countries, the mountains, the trees, the rivers, and the oceans will have no bottom and the people will see the eastern countries move to the west and the western countries move to the east.”

    __________________________________________________ _________

    More Proof of Flat Earth Fatawas:

    From “Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality” by Parvez Hoodbhoy: **** (Page 49)

    “.. The Sheikh (Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz) authored … a book in Arabic entitled Jiryan Al-Shams Wa Al-Qammar Wa-Sukoon Al-Arz. This translates into Motion of the Sun and Moon, and Stationarity of the Earth… In an earlier book, he had threatened dissenters with the dire fatwa or takfir (disbelief), but did not repeat the threat in the newer version.”

    __________________________________________________ ________

    “The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.” Yousef M. Ibrahim, “Muslim Edicts take on New Force”, The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.

    Zakir Naik to read this before misleading the people Kuran says the earth is round!

  99. VBS says

    EARTH
    Zakir Naik has quoted the following verse:
    “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse” “And the mountains as pegs?”

    So there are debates going on among muslim scholars whether the earth is flat or spherical, BUT ONE THING IS CLEAR, MOUNTAINS ARE PEGS SUCH THAT THE CARPET DOESN’T FLY IN STRONG WINDS!
    Chinese wouln’t find mountains in the heaven. How their carpet will get fixed. It will fly and they will fall to hell!

  100. quran-is-protected says

    @albert, vedic rishis believe that earth is situated on horns of the cow? you can accept anything from veda but can’t analyse if anything posted against Quran. quran says that moon has reflected light so it is in total conformity with science.

    • Ankur says

      @quran-is-protected : its hilarious ; earth on cow horns, are they the thoughts of Qur’an coz veda dont say so. besides we have similar scientific event in Qur’an where Moon was broken into two and the rejoined by MMD.

    • Amul Arya(Abu Masood) says

      one of the reason me leaving islam is because islam goes against science and muslim preachers have lied to you and worse they think they can use science to get converts

      • Praveen says

        @ Amul

        Agreed!

        We need to understand that we have to move with time and get out out of fixed thoughts/beliefs etc.

        We believe God is one and universal but the religious scriptures could be man made to suit the needs of public of the relevant time!

          • RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

            We should accept following principles of religion/Dharama as universal——–
            1)God is one and He is same in all religions.
            2)God is jyotiswaroop and having no shape.Moortipuja should not be allowed.All temples/Church/Gurudwara/Masjid should be used for prayers as well sadhana/meditation so that believers can establish direct connection with GOD for benefit of human beings.All prevailing pakhand should be eliminated with help of true science.
            3)We are all souls having same characteristics .We always search for true love/Anand wich can achieved by taking inner path with help of meditation.

      • RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

        I don’t find any difference between teachings of Ved and Guru Granth Sahib.Guru Granth Sahib provides teachings of Saints in simple language .Time has come to accept Guru Granth Sahib as true Granth of Hindus.In the mean times,can we have meaning of all vedic mantras particularly Vedic Prathana.

    • krishnarao says

      “vedic rishis believe that earth is situated on horns of the cow?”

      wow the ignorance of quran-is-protected is boundless. He doesn’t even give the quote from the Vedas that state this. He doesn’t tell us who translated the Vedas. He doesn’t give the group of Hindus body that supports that translations. He just made a fake statement with ZERO proof. What a total and utter idiot. I have read the Vedas and I never saw that quote. I never ever saw that quote. He is such an idiot.

      Since quran-is-portected seems like we should not give any proof when make allegations I can play the same game. It is the quran that says and feels it is the best way to be good by licking dogs balls every other day. lmaf.

  101. Albert says

    @ quran is protected

    THE EARTH IS FLAT

    Title of the Book: “Evidence that the Earth is Standing Still.”
    Author: Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ben Baz.
    Editor: Islamic University of Medina.
    Year: 1395 AH [1974 CE]
    City: Medina, Saudi Arabia.
    Page: 23.

    He said in his book: “If the earth is rotating as they claim, the countries, the mountains, the trees, the rivers, and the oceans will have no bottom and the people will see the eastern countries move to the west and the western countries move to the east.”

    __________________________________________________ _________

    More Proof of Flat Earth Fatawas:

    From “Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality” by Parvez Hoodbhoy: **** (Page 49)

    “.. The Sheikh (Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz) authored … a book in Arabic entitled Jiryan Al-Shams Wa Al-Qammar Wa-Sukoon Al-Arz. This translates into Motion of the Sun and Moon, and Stationarity of the Earth… In an earlier book, he had threatened dissenters with the dire fatwa or takfir (disbelief), but did not repeat the threat in the newer version.”

    __________________________________________________ ________

    “The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.” Yousef M. Ibrahim, “Muslim Edicts take on New Force”, The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.

    Zakir Naik to read this before misleading the people Kuran says the earth is round! He is speaking against the fatwa as mentioned above.

    Do not read science otherwise you will get doomed because you will get logical power!

  102. Albert says

    Earth was made out of water in 6 days!

    Chinese scientists are puzzled. Earth consists of 118 elements as listed in periodic table. While water consists of only two elements, water and hydrogen.

    It seems God borrowed the balance 116 elements from the non believers to make the earth.

    Chinese want to make some own colony out of sea water. They are working on the chemical formula to get balance 116 elements out of water only.

  103. Albert says

    BIG BANG THEORY

    The earth and heaven were initially joined together. God separated these while the non believers watched this great deed! This event is known as BIG BANG.Every living thing was created by water then?

    Conclusion:
    1. Nonbelievers pre dated creation of other living things
    2. While Big bang was happening, non believers witnessed the scene from somewhere,—-from Heavens perhaps!
    3. After the big bang, earth must have been red hot, it was cooled by water which was supplied from where—from heavens!!!!!
    4. And the earth was created from water, other elements of the earth then fell from the heaven!!!
    5. Living beings were made from water (hydrogen and water). The other elements of the body like calcium, phosphorous etc were perhaps borrowed from non believers!!
    6. This means God and believers must be obliged to the non believers!!!!!!

  104. Albert says

    BIG BANG THEORY

    The earth and heaven were initially joined together. God separated these while the non believers watched this great deed! This event is known as BIG BANG.Every living thing was created by water then?

    Conclusion:
    1. Nonbelievers pre dated creation of other living things
    2. While Big bang was happening, non believers witnessed the scene from somewhere,—-from Heavens perhaps!
    3. After the big bang, earth must have been red hot, it was cooled by water which was supplied from where—from heavens!!!!!
    4. And the earth was created from water, other elements of the earth then fell from the heaven!!!
    5. Living beings were made from water (hydrogen and water). The other elements of the body like calcium, phosphorous etc were perhaps borrowed from non believers!!
    6. God creater men with water only. However their body now contains carbon, nitrogen, calcium and many more elements. Oh, the belivers have got corrupted.!!!!!!
    7. No more beliver can go to Jannat, only hell is the way!!!!!!

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @Albert
      He albert, how can you dare to reject the prophet claims?
      Muhammad told Muslim that stars are in the lower sky and are lamps that God throws at jins and demons.

      Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…
      Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.
      It is logical and scientific as per Quran.

  105. Albert says

    @ Sanatan Dharma
    The modern physists do not desrve noble prize. God made the earth only by water while these scientists claim it has more than 100 elements!!!
    Similarly, he made man with water only, God knows how there are much more elements in human body now! It seems the non believers corrupted the believers with the extra elements in their bodies.
    I am afraid, the believers are corrupted now, don’t you fill they will find place in hell now.
    In place of 72 hoors, they will get 72 pigs, how is that?

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @Albert
      Who are you to claim earth is made more than 100 elements.You scientist do not now anything. Muslim will believe what prophet has said. Prophet said earth is made of water only. .Prophet words are final. If prophet said earth is flat that means flat there is no arguments. Whoever will believe earth is made more than 100 elements allah will punish them eternally because they did doubt in prophet words.

  106. says

    this is bullshit there is not a single word of hindu in whole vedas :D so how can hindu claim there authority over vedas :D and there is also nothing like hinduism too .People who live near river sindhu are called hindu and i am original hindu :D

    • RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

      Vedas are meant for all Human being and it is true that there is no mention of word HINDU as God consider all human being as soul and they are same irrespective of colour/places/languages etc. Vedic prayer given below pray for human being;
      Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina,Sarve Bhavantu Niramaya——All human being should be happy and always in good health.
      Even Shanti path is talking in the same term.

  107. Sanatan Dharma says

    @sudir
    Veda have nothing to do with Hindu. Hindu word nowhere mentioned in Veda. Veda are for all humanity. Veda are universal & eternal truths.

    • RAMESH says

      Veda are meant for all human being. Prayer like Sarve bhavantu sukhina,sarve santu niramaya and shanti mantra Aum dhau shanti antriksham shanti prithavi——-ved mantra proves the point.veda does not belong to any religion but human being.

  108. SachaBanda says

    Is this what the ‘Gianis’ have been teaching you or are you just merely speculating on here? For years Brahmins have been targeted for hatred through a conspiracy which was sowed by the British Raj Christian missionaries – they realised Brahmins were the strength of India & its rich heritage which is Sanatan Dharmic Sikhi.

    1. Guru Nanak Devji was born a Brahmin himself – the stories of him discarding the Janeu is utter non-sense & have found themselves into the JanamSakhis which are re-written over & over by the traitor Tat Khalsa who have done a great job in brainwashing Sikhs like yourselves.

    2. If you are in India please pay a visit to Baba Atal Gurdvara – You will find ancient murals of GuruNanakDev ji how he explained the importance of Shraadh to his father, how he married according to the Vedic customs of fire & seven pheres, and he wore the vaishnava red Tilak – most of this the Neo-Sikhs are hell bent upon playing down;

    3. Caste system – this is what you have mentioned & yet again the same old myths being propagated by Neo-Sikhs who have talibanised Sanatan Sikhi & hijacked our great & beautiful heritage which the Gurus have given to us – Are you telling me that Caste is no more an important factor in a Sikh’s life? I’m a Ramgharia Sikh & most of our lot won’t even marry Jatts, Chamars etc..what does this imply? Our Gurus too married into their own ‘Castes’ if you dare to do some research yourself. So all this hogwash about Nanak Devji came to start up some new religion free of Caste practises is totally myth which has its root with the British & Tat Khalsa.

    4. According to you ‘Brahmins encroach upon Sikh faith’ – since when? And why would they feel the urge to do so? This is typical Akal Takht run by SGPC nonsense. Brahmins today in India are the most downtrodden – the least of their worries is to ‘encroach upon Sikhi’.

    5. Brother, I am not Hindu bashing nor Sikh bashing – I am only exposing the trie beautiful Sanatan Sikhism which ALL of us Sikhs have been cheated out of thanks to the Tat Khalsa & SGPC.

    • RAMESH says

      Sacha Banda ji, I agree with your views about our great/respected Gurus.Guru Nanak Dev ji had clearly/directly propogate the concept of God, Atama and Maya(prakriti).God is jyotiswaroop.He had condemned all evils spread in our samaj at that time even now.Guru Nanak Dev ji ‘s views are all accordingly confirming Vedas teachings.

      • RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

        Guru Nanak Dev ji a great saint was born in Khatri Family(Mehta) but does not believe unnecessary rituals .He has played very important role in eliminating Pakhand spread in our HINDU samaj as well in other religion.
        He has also condemned Moorti pooja as same is not needed to do Bhakati.It is necessary to take inner path with help of meditation/jap to have direct connection with GOD which can be achieved with HIS blessing/rahmat.

  109. says

    Any doubts please check how Jahangir refered Gure Arjun Dev in his book (Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri (Memoirs of Jahangir) )..
    In Gobindwal, which is on the river Beas, a Hindu named Arjan used to live in the garb of a spiritual master and mystic guide, under the influence of which he had induced a large number of simple-minded Hindus and some ignorant and silly Muslims, to become attached to his ways and customs. He had the drum of his spiritual leadership and sainthood loudly beaten. They called him Guru. From all sides and directions ignorant ones and dervish-grab worshippers inclined towards him and reposed full faith in him. For three or four generations they (he and his precursors) had kept his business brisk. For a long time the thought kept coming to me of either putting an end to that shop of falsehood or to bring him into the fold of Islam. (6)

  110. says

    Wonderful blog! I found it while browsing
    on Yahoo News. Do you have any suggestions on how
    to get listed in Yahoo News? I’ve been trying for a while but I never seem to get there! Thank you

  111. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear All,

    If any body want to understand Sikhism and Gurbani then somebody must read and understand full Pauri or Shabad not by taking some Tuks from the Bani and making translation which suits himself.

    IT IS A VERY CLEAR FACT WHICH WAS MENTIONED ABOVE BY Aryavratta ON April 3, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Neither our masters are followers of Vadas nor we. The authenticity of the Vedas is still questionable because nobody who wrote it and when.

    Thanks,

    • Krishnarao says

      Brother, Sikhi is indeed a great religion. I have read many parts of the SGGS is and am very impressed with it. I know there are many many similarities in some of the most important areas with Vedic Dharam. In a later post, I will point to those.

      Best,
      Krishnarao

    • Krishnarao says

      Hi Gurmeet Singh,

      Vedic Dharam and Sikhs do have many similarities:

      1. Both believe in reincarnation. And not just reincarnation, but Karma based reincarnation. Both believe how you are in this life will affect your next life. And it is measurable response to what kind of person you are in this life.

      2. Both believe in Moksha. A state of being. Or the connecting with the highest state of consciousness, God.

      3. Both believe in Atman. Commonly mistaken for a soul. But the difference is Atman is not something created by God, it is always in existence and part of the highest state of consciousness, God.

      4. Both believe God exists everywhere. Meaning God isn’t just hidden in some place in heaven, but God is infinite and is everywhere.

      5. Both believe God is One. And we should meditate on that one God to reach a higher state of consciousness.

      6. Both believe being a Good person is key to the success of your soul.

      7. Both believe in the importance of Meditation.

      8. Both believe in Dharam and the defense of Dharam.

      9. Both believe in the four main categories of Yoga: Karma, Bhakti, Jnana, and Raja

      10. Both believe in experiencing the divine, not hearing it from someone, that is why we meditate.

      11. Both Believe in getting the individual to achieve enlightenment.

      12. Both believe in the monotheism. Vedic Dharam and Sikhs object to idol worship and believe in the worship of only the one God.

      I would like to hear your thoughts.

      Best,
      Krishnarao

      • Gurmeet Singh says

        Dear Krishnarao,
        There are similarities in all religions one or another way. By pointing out some similarities does not prove your point. Muslims, Christians and Jews etc all buried their bodies so are they same?
        If Guru Nanak has to follow Vedas then why guru Grant Sahib was written and for whom?
        Why there was no quotes from Vedas in Guru Grant Sahib?
        Why it has Shabads from all kind of religious people like Bhagat Kabir, Shek Farid etc.?
        Vedas advised and used Fire as a source to reach/meet God. (By doing Havans, Yag etc.) However Guru Nanak used Air as source to reach /meet God which we called Shabad.
        Please let me know if you understand this then i will give you more examples.
        Thanks,
        Gurmeet

    • dogra says

      Gurmeet whether u believ in Vedas or not is of not concern to us, it is your free choice as RV 1.164.46 says:The Rigveda itself indicates that Truth is one – “ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti agnim yamam matariswanam ahuh”[1] (meaning Truth is one, but the learned refer to it in different names

      RV 10.161–

      The last Sukta of Rigveda (10.161) summarizes the whole essence of what humans should do to imbibe the Vedas. The entire Vedas have to be understood in context of this Sukta which emphasizes on the most differentiating trait of human beings – unity – in purpose, method and approach. Here is a summary list of the dictates of Vedic religion in this Sukta:

      Rigveda 10.161.2
      – walk together in the path of truth without bias, injustice and intolerance
      – talk to each other to enhance knowledge, wisdom and affection without malice and hatred
      – keep working together to enhance knowledge and bliss
      – follow the path of truth and selflessness as exemplified by noble people

      Rigveda 10.161.3
      – Your analysis of right and wrong should be unbiased and not specific to particular set of people
      – You should organize together to help everyone enhance their health, knowledge and prosperity
      – Your minds should be devoid of hatred and should see progress and happiness of all as one’s own progress and happiness and you should only act for enhancement of happiness of all based on truth
      – Work together to eradicate falsehood and discover truth
      – Never ever deviate from path of truth and unity

      feel free to disagree

    • dogra says

      Authenticity is questionable is usual rubbish that explodes from individuals who have nothing better to say about sanatan dhaRMA
      Vedas were written on banks of ancient river sarawasti in Punjab, and thats a fact, as river proven by scientific evidence, geographical location in vedas itself proves this.
      So stop babbling and come out with facts on essence of vedas as shown

      • Gurmeet Singh says

        Thanks for letting me know the location but you also didn’t mentioned :

        When it was written and by whom?

        • dogra says

          Gurmeet,

          U ask when and who wrote the vedas, there is not a clear refernce point for this, but when is during time when river saraswati was flowing it died during:
          “http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2073159.stm
          Through satellite photography, scientists have mapped the course of an enormous river that once flowed through the north western region of India. The images show that it was 8 km wide in places and that it dried up 4,000 years ago. ”
          Revelation to the Rishis.

          Now can you comment on verses posted and whether u agree or disagree, and can you show where caste is mentioned?

        • Gurmeet Singh says

          I am sorry for delay in reply.
          I just gone through the text and want your comments on the below:

          “Highly sophisticated seals on which there is evidence of writing have also been found, indicating that these people were literate, but unfortunately the seals have never been deciphered.”

          Since you have showed/mentioned it as a evidence why the writing of that time cannot be decoded. I am sure it should be in Sanskrit if Vedas are written at that time or before.

          • dogra says

            Gurmeet as river saraswati is mentioned in Vedas then evidence as to where and roughly when becomes clearer, and fact Vedas is in India and not elsewhere provides indirect evidence.

            Now can you comment on the verses shown previously and where is caste mentioned in Vedas

          • Ankur says

            @Gurumeet : we must understand that what can be spoken can be written in any script. if you assume that “devnagri” in which Sanskrit is written today is as old as the language itself,then you are mistaken.
            Just like Punjabi was spoken even before Gurumukhi was derived from Sharda lipi.
            illustration

            देह शिवा बर मोहे ईहे, शुभ कर्मन ते कभुं न टरूं
            न डरौं अरि सौं जब जाय लड़ौं, निश्चय कर अपनी जीत करौं,
            अरु सिख हों आपने ही मन कौ इह लालच हउ गुन तउ उचरों,
            जब आव की अउध निदान बनै अति ही रन मै तब जूझ मरों ॥२३१॥

            ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
            ਨ ਡਰੋਂ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋਂ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋਂ ॥
            ਅਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਂ ਆਪਨੇ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਕੌ ਇਹ ਲਾਲਚ ਹਉ ਗੁਨ ਤਉ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥
            ਜਬ ਆਵ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋਂ ॥੨੩੧॥

          • Gurmeet Singh says

            Why there was no reply button in your last comments?

            Do you want to close it by your own?

          • Gurmeet Singh says

            Before stepping in this blog I read some of the text and found out that people who are disagree with your opinion you projected them as separatist. I was expecting the same thing for myself as well but you people just ran away. It was the only reason to participate in this so called BLOG.

            By keeping yourself mum will not hide the truth which is that Guru Nanak does not followed or asked us to follow the Vedic guidelines. if they (“Guru Nanak”) agreed with Vedic guidelines then why “they” simply didn’t asked everybody to do this and become a Pujari of any Temple instead of moving around the world and taught peoples precious teachings of living happy life. This is what God wants that their sons/daughters lives happily.

            I have a doubt if you have read Sri Guru Granth Sahib or our master’s teachings in full. if so, you never relate Guru Nanak with Vedic some or other way because he himself said neither he is hindu nor he musalmaan. I am not sure if Vedic has a guidelines for people of other religions.

            Please read “Sidh Goght” mentioned in “Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Page 938 line 5 to page 946 line 19″. It will give you much more clarity on the subject.

            ALSO GURU GRANTH SAHIB IS NOT FOR SIKHS BUT FOR EVERYBODY WHO WANT TO TALK WITH ALMIGHTY “AKAL PURKH”.

            WE DON’T CARE IF YOU PEOPLE DIDN’T AGREE WITH IT.

            AT THE END ONLY TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.

            Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh.

          • Ankur says

            @Gurmeet : Brother, i never said that Guru Nanak dev asked people to follow vedic teaching ? did i ?
            The point that is being made is that Guru Nanak Understood the Vedic Dharma in its true sense , above the prevailing dogma & confusion of the convoluted form of contemporary Hinduism, He gave the saar as he understood Dharma as the Guru Granth Sabhi.
            so i don’t know y you are feeling offended?
            y do you want to disconnect from the roots ? y are you fanatically searching for a separate identity when essentially you are worshiping the same “Akal Purush” ( the being beyond time)

            ek onkar satnam kartapurakh
            nirmoh nirvair akaal murat
            ajuni sabham
            guru parsad jap aad sach jugaad sach
            hai bhi sach nanak hose bhi sach
            soche soch na ho wai
            jo sochi lakh waar
            chhupe chhup na howai
            je laai har lakhtaar

            ukhiya pukh na utari
            je banna puriya paar
            sahasyanpa lakh woh hai

            ta ek na chale naal
            ke ve sach yaara hoi ae
            ke ve kude tutte paal
            hukum rajai chalna nanak likheya naal

            The prayer above is different in no sense from the elixir of the veda.

            and I agree with you but i disagree with you that you are different from me, coz you say that without know me & the Veda which talk of one Talk of One Timeless and formless God and his best name being the Omkar

  112. Amit says

    I am new to this blog and website; however i ardently read the comments from all, (including Gurmeet); after reading many teachings, seriously following religions myself like hinduism and sikhism; I would like to share my opinion on doubts from Gurmeet.
    Think of a road (Road A) that leads you to home and now imagine it has been walked over and over by many people everyday for many many years. Some of the travellers planted a tree alongside this road and mostly left litter and rubbish on the road. Over the years that road is now not clean although it (Road A) still leads you to home. Now one fine day an enlighted soul travelled a different path and found another parallel route (developed Road B) to that home. Now this relatively new road (Road B) also leads you to home (you may call God or Ishwar or EkOnkar).
    Road A is Sanatan Dharam and Road B is Sikhism. Both of these will lead you to same place. Depends what you choose. There will be similarities on these road but you will find differences as well.
    That’s how i personally feel about Sanatan Dharam and Sikhism after following both. Now keenly waiting to reach home.
    May us all reach home.

  113. Krishnarao says

    “I heard also that Shudras have no right to enter into temples also.”

    -This might be the case with some puranic Hindu temples. But that is a very small percentage among even puranic Hindus. Vedic Hindus do not in any way discriminate against anyone from any part of society or even religion from entering their place of worship. Anyone can, they just need to respect the rules of that temple, like take off your shoes and respect those who are meditating or respect the person lecturing. And to not harass or disrespect anyone in there.

    Since you brought up the idea of sect, Which branch of the Sikh sect do you belong to, Nirankari or Namdhari or SHO or Akhand Kirtani Jatha or Piara Singh Bhaniara or Damdami Taksal (It’s an educational organization and a sect) or Mazhabi (They are also a tribe) or Nihang or Ramraiyas or Ravidasia Sikhs or Sanatan Singh Sabha or Udasi? Or is it one I did not mention?

  114. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I have read through those verses and No where do I find Krishna saying he is God or worship him. Go buy yourself a copy of the Srimad Bhagvad Gita translated by Ravi Prakash Arya. The link is below:

    http://www.amazon.com/Srimad-Bhagvad-Gita-Scientific-Commentary/dp/3846595888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383869249&sr=1-1&keywords=Bhagvad+Gita+Ravi+prakash+Arya

    Krishna is talking about the Atman that is in all of us. He is talking about aham “beginning, the middle, and end of all beings” 10.20. So I’m not sure what you are talking about.

    And yes, it is important you get a copy translated by a Vedic person. Otherwise you are just putting up a false narrative.

    You want us to believe in YOUR VERSION of Hinduism and what you have made up in your own head with pieces taken from some puranic Hindu practices. You had a plan. You wanted to come on here with your false assumptions and say to Hindus, look at all the disgusting and horrible things you follow. When you met us Vedic Hindus, and found out that we also find those things horrible and do not follow them, you got pissed off and tried to forceful tell us we follow those things.

    Since we did not fall into your impress of what we were supposed to be, you went crazy. Sorry buddy, but you need to do a Purva Paksha (Full detailed study) of Vedic people before you debate them. Go read the Vedas and Gita translated by Vedic people. Next time ask us what we believe in, instead of telling us what we are supposed to believe in.

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  115. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I am not responsible for some else’s post. Please ask them about that post.

    I never heard of Dayanand Saraswati (born in 1824) ever trying to commit suicide. Please provide your source.

    And Arya Samaj is a reform movement. Not a religion. Prior to Arya Samaj people followed the Vedic principles and the evidence is Dayanand Saraswati’s teach taught him these Vedic values. ANd his teacher’s name is Swami Virajananda Dandi. Vedic people were always there.

    The real question you need to ask yourself, what existed before Sikhi. Was there anything pure as your Sikhi before Sikhi, or did God abandon humanity for the vast majority of human history and only decided to help humanity in the last 500 or 300 years?

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  116. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    The main question I would like you to answer is:

    According to your Sikh belief, what was before Sikhi? Was there anything as pure and true as Sikhi prior to Sikhi, or did God abandon humanity for most of humanity’s existence and decide to help humanity only in the last 500 or 300 years?

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  117. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    The essence of the Vedas is Love, and that love is expressed through Yoga:

    the four main components of Yoga: Meditation on One God, Service to mankind and environment, devotional music and artistic expression, and Study of spirituality and science. All of this done WITHOUT idol worship or use of prophet, son of god, godman, superman or xman (no one inbetween, just you and God). Or WITHOUT bowing to required directions, required pilgrimage, placing some geographic place higher in status, and etc.

    And any group of people can do this with or without the Vedas. The Native Americans did this before the Europeans invaded and killed them all off. They used to meditate on the One God, they call the One God the Great spirit. And they did devotional songs and dances, it is called a POW WOW. They would make sure to do service for mankind and their environment, and they learned what they can with the tools they had of their surroundings. They might not have been as advanced as everyone, but they practice the primary components of Yoga. So this practice was everywhere.

  118. RamNarayan says

    Dear Adam, Namaste!
    Now Gurumeet will say, KrishnaRao, Me and you are all living together. He probably doesn’t know that ppl could be living apart and think alike.

    Dhanyawad

  119. Jesus is Your Savior says

    Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus IS YOUR SAVIOR!!!!!!!!!

    Hindus, your are mislead by your gods, they are only the devil’s demons.
    Sikhs, your gurus are the work of the devil.
    Muslims, mohammed is the the son of satin.

    Accept JESUS as you savior and you will enter the KINGDOM OF GOD. JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS SO YOU CAN BE SAVED. Jesus loves you!!!!!!!!

    • salman says

      jesus=david=solomen=abraham and all the prophets peace and mercy of GOD be upon him,were the messenger from GOD and all are equal even according to the bible also.it has been proooved.

      • Mr. Khan says

        Hi,

        First I want to say, I think religion is bullshit. Having said that, here is what I learned about different religions growing up in a muslim family.

        Jesus and many before Mohammed were prophets. But after him, there are no more prophets. So I asked our Imam what about the Sikh Gurus. He said Guru Nanak was a muslim (Sufi), he went to mecca. And the 9 other Gurus that followed Guru Nanak corrupted Guru Nanak’s message. The other nine were false prophets, all the way to Guru Gobind Singh.

        Mr. Khan

        • salman says

          who are you mr.khan?probably tou are just a fake identity.which imam says you this statement?if guru nanak was believed in only one GOD,having good deeds with full of their understandings and submits their will to the allah almighty with beleive in the day of judgment,obviously he was a muslim otherwise not.

        • Jay Arya says

          your imam was wrong it seems todays islam is controlled by imams, maulana and muftis and preachers who fool muslims and non muslims with their lies

  120. RamNarayan says

    Krishna Rao ji, Namaste!
    Do not waste time to expect any answer from Gurumeet. We will find many of this kind who seem to be showing interest in knowing the real facts but cannot come out of their obsessions or preoccupied ideas. Their interest is not truthful because they don’t think out of their existing ideology. A true vedic intrspects/questions himself every moment to improvise himself. Sensibily, ppl like Adam are far better, who accept the commonality among various religtions/sects and don’t boast about their own paths. When put simple questions about their path, they try to counter attack with same questions repeatedly that are answered by several of us already.

    Forums work out well only with like minded, truly intuitive, open minded persons. Otherwise, literally it will be waste of time to hold these discussions back and forth.

    Am sure, Gurumeet would try to use my statements to demean us and we shouldn’t be taking them seriously and keep moving on.

    • Krishnarao says

      Hi RamNarayan,

      I think you are right. But I think it’s deeper than that. I don’t think he actually knows the answer to the question of what religion was there before Sikhi that was like Sikhi. Vast majority of his quotes just say the conditions were really bad before Sikhi, and I think most people can agree to that. But the problem is he never told us what was like Sikhi before Sikhi was around. Was it Bakhti Yoga or Vedic Hinduism. Anything.

      And yes, Adam is a much better person. He is clear and straight with his answer. Very practical person. Wish to hear more from him.

      Krishnarao

  121. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear KrishnaRao/RamNarayan,

    I know according to belief of Hindus ‘Vedas’ are eternal and Simritis, Puranas are basic of Hinduism.

    Why don’t you come up with something? However it is not authentic but I want to see if you have anything to prove.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  122. Gurmeet Singh says

    Please read the truth about your VEDAS.

    http://asimiqbal2nd.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/women-in-hinduism.pdf

    This is small introduction to what was before birth of Guru Nanak. Now I will share lot of other material as well.

    The almighty cannot abandoned humanity. You must read it and see what was his child doing before Guru Nanak’s birth. This was the reason that Guru Nanak came and they gave us God’s message in the shape of SGGS but people like you are still want to live in the dark. So enjoy your life in DARK. I don’t mind.

    I am sorry for all this but I think it is my turn to laugh, poor chap.

  123. Dogra says

    Gourmet can u respond to the 6 main points in Hinduism in few posts and kindly let me know if u disagree with them and why
    Also gender equality is enshrined in sanatan dharma as evidently shown by female and male aspects of god . U can choose ignorance as in Sita aggarwal or questioning as in why ardhnarishvar , why Kali ma, why strength is in shakti ma ???? . Reconciliation , no reconciliation to aggarwal book, so why u mention book but not shakti ja , why ?

  124. RamNarayan says

    Dear Gurumeet,

    Your Dec 12: 8:29 AM post has the following:

    All those points are already mentioned by Mr. Krishnarao and was duly replied just go back and read it.

    Do you consider this as your response to Dogra ji’s questions. What a laughable stock you are.

  125. Sandeep Bansal says

    ਦੀਵਾ ਬਲੈ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
    दीवा बलै अंधेरा जाइ ॥
    Ḏīvā balai anḏẖerā jā▫e.
    When the lamp is lit, the darkness is dispelled;

    ਬੇਦ ਪਾਠ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਪਾ ਖਾਇ ॥
    बेद पाठ मति पापा खाइ ॥
    Beḏ pāṯẖ maṯ pāpā kẖā▫e.
    reading the Vedas, sinful intellect is destroyed.

    ਉਗਵੈ ਸੂਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਪੈ ਚੰਦੁ ॥
    उगवै सूरु न जापै चंदु ॥
    Ugvai sūr na jāpai cẖanḏ.
    When the sun rises, the moon is not visible.

    ਜਹ ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ਅਗਿਆਨੁ ਮਿਟੰਤੁ ॥
    जह गिआन प्रगासु अगिआनु मिटंतु ॥

    Jah gi▫ān pargās agi▫ān mitanṯ.
    Wherever spiritual wisdom appears, ignorance is dispelled. Page 791

  126. Sandeep Bansal says

    दीवा बलै अंधेरा जाइ ॥
    When the lamp is lit, the darkness is dispelled;

    बेद पाठ मति पापा खाइ ॥

    reading the Vedas, sinful intellect is destroyed.

    उगवै सूरु न जापै चंदु ॥

    When the sun rises, the moon is not visible.

    जह गिआन प्रगासु अगिआनु मिटंतु ॥

    Wherever spiritual wisdom appears, ignorance is dispelled. Page 791

    • Krishnarao says

      Hi Sandeep,

      Thanks for posting those verses from the SGGS. Specifically post:

      “reading the Vedas, sinful intellect is destroyed.” p. 791-3 from the SGGS. Translated by Dr. Kulbir Singh Thind, MD
      from website: http://www.srigurugranth.org/0791.html

      So my question to Gurmeet is, is Dr. Kulbir Singh Thind, MD someone you consider an authority on Sikh scriptures? In the quote above, it looks like the SGGS is promoting the Vedas.

      And what came before Sikhi that was like Sikhi? Sounds like it was the Vedas that came before.

      Krishnarao

  127. Dogra says

    Gurmeet see u have resorted to lying to avoid answering my questions to you on Hinduism
    Let me categorically state agniveer should just focus on sanatan dharma based on Vedas . Sikhism is based on guru Granth sahib ji , so do not validate agniveer on this specific article as it is not about Vedas , let me also be clear we have respect for Sikhism and guru jis .
    You on the other hand have come out with nonsense on Hinduism mentioning Sita aggarwal and not bothering to answer questions on Hinduism nor agniveer .
    You gave no case on Hinduism, as u can’t even answer the fundamental points shame on you for your bigotry towards Hinduism

  128. Krishnarao says

    Gurmeet,

    I saw a post by Adam about why you are on here. In so many words you think we are misrepresenting The Gurus and SGGS. Well you have your right to your opinion and we have our right to our opinion. You DO NOT OWN THE GURUS nor do the GURUS needs rescuing from you.

    Even among Hindus we have disagreements about Krishna and Rama. Some Hindus Call Krishna and Rama God, and us Vedic Hindus just consider them men who did great things and anyone can do what they did. Neither of us claim to own them or rescue them. We state our opinions and have our discussion but do not force our ideas on each other.

    Next Christians say Jesus is the son of God, Jews just consider Jesus a man, and muslims consider him a prophet. Each of them having massive differences as to who he was, but the point at the end is they all have different opinions of who he is. Muslims even make claims about Guru Nanak. Some claim he was a muslim other claim he was just a man, but not a prophet or guru or anything. Everyone is going to have their own opinions of who he is. Gurmeet, all you can do is understand we have a different stance on who the Gurus are from you. You stated your opinion, but we do not agree with you. Let us look at the evidence and come up with our on conclusion. And from our own conclusion we come up with something different from you.

    Now can you handle people with different views from you on the Gurus or SGGS, or will you know declare a Jihad and kill everyone who has a different view from you?

  129. Krishnarao says

    And to add to my point, even Sikhs make statements about Krishna, Rama, Vedas, and Gita. And many times it is statements that Hindus completely disagree with. But we recognize you have the right to your opinion and we have the right to our opinion. Sikhs are not the only ones who have the right to make statements about other people’s religions, practices, religious figures, or lifestyle. The freedom goes both ways. We don’t have to agree with each other, but we do have the right to make statements about each other and have our own opinions. And we have the freedom and right to express those views publicly. You sound like you want to start initiating blasphemy laws. What makes you any different from extremists in Pakistan that use those kinds of laws to arrest thousands of Christians, Sikhs, and Hindus because for some wimpy reason or another because they felt those Christians, Sikhs, and Hindus offended their prophet. It sounds like that is the kind of person you are or becoming.

  130. says

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥

    ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ 19॥

    ਜਿਨ ਮਤ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥

    (ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਾਟਕ – ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ) krishan ne arjun se kaha ke tu vedo ko chod aur parmeshvar ki sharan le ,,kyoki ved teen gun ke ander hai ,,,jab ke turiya avashtha chothi hai,,,teen gun maya ke beech me hai aur vedo me bram gian kam hai teen guno ki bat jyada hai ,,,sikh guru mante hai ki veda me bhi bram gian hai par chothe padarath jani turiya vastha ka nahi,,,teen guno ke ander hi ved hai ,,,,,,,jo us isvar ke bhagti ke marag par chala us ne vedo aur ketabo ka rah chod diya ,,,,,,

  131. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    Why are you not going through the answers I gave long ago with reference?

    May be you don’t want to understand or didn’t understand?

    Once again I am giving you another quotes from “Gurbani”. If you are not agree with the Gurbaani then how can u agree with me.

    Please refer

    SORAT’H, FIFTH MEHL, SECOND HOUSE, ASHTAPADEES:
    ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
    They read scriptures, and contemplate the Vedas; they practice the inner cleansing techniques of Yoga, and control of the
    breath. But they cannot escape from the company of the five passions; they are increasingly bound to egotism. || 1 || O Beloved, this is not the way to meet the Lord; I have performed these rituals so many times. I have collapsed, exhausted, at the Door of my Lord Master; I pray that He may grant me a discerning intellect. || Pause || One may remain silent and use his hands as begging bowls, and wander naked in the forest. He may make pilgrimages to river banks and sacred shrines all over the world, but his sense of duality will not leave him. || 2 || His mind’s desires may lead him to go and dwell at sacred places of pilgrimage, and offer his head to be sawn off; but this will not cause the filth of his mind to depart, even though he may make thousands of efforts. || 3 || He may give gifts of all sorts — gold, women, horses and
    elephants. He may make offerings of corn, clothes and land in abundance, but this will not lead him to the Lord’s Door. || 4 || He may remain devoted to worship and adoration, bowing his forehead to the floor, practicing the six religious rituals. He indulges in egotism and pride, and falls into entanglements, but he does not meet the Lord by these devices. || 5 ||

  132. Gurmeet Singh says

    He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord. || 6 || He may enjoy princely pleasures, and regal pomp and ceremony, and issue unchallenged commands. He may lie on beautiful beds, perfumed with sandalwood oil, but this will led him only to the gates of the most horrible hell. || 7 || Singing the Kirtan of the Lord’s Praises in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is the highest of all actions. Says Nanak, he alone obtains it, who is pre-destined to receive it. || 8 || Your slave is intoxicated with this Love of Yours. The Destroyer of the pains of the poor has become merciful to me, and this mind is imbued with the Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||
    Second Pause || 1 || 3 ||

    Page (Ang): 641

  133. Gurmeet Singh says

    What will you say to the below quote which was mentioned above?

    He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these. He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord. || 6 ||

  134. RAMESH KUMAR ANAND says

    Guru Nanak Dev ji started a different thought process to eliminate social evils prevailing in Hindu Samaj.Even though,he was speaking in local language but all was based on Vedas.He was great saint and traveled abroad to convey his message——–God is one.Idol worshiping does not help you to connect you with God.Most of his saying is based on Vedas.He does not believe in blind faith/pakhand rtc.Sikhism is real modern religion meeting all aspects of real Vedas.

  135. Gurmeet Singh says

    However there is no reply buttons appears in Mr. Ankur’s comments so i have to give a reply him here :

    You must be very clear about what are you saying. Please be specific and should not generalized it.

    First, you are defending yourself by saying that you never said that “Guru Nanak Dev asked people to follow vedic teaching” on other way you are saying that “Guru Nanak Understood the Vedic Dharma in its true sense , above the prevailing dogma & confusion of the convoluted form of contemporary Hinduism, He gave the saar as he understood Dharma as the Guru Granth Sahib”. One of your statement is wrong you decide which one it is let me know so that i can reply.

    Please clarify and reply in Yes or No. I need your reply to this question in Yes or No only so that I can understand your state of mind.

    Does it means that Guru Nanak summarize Vedic Dharma in Guru Granth Sahib? if it does as per yourself then your first statement went wrong. I mentioned it just to remind you.

    However one of your blogger said that Guru Nanak doesn’t know Sanskrit so how he can understand Vedic Dharma without reading veds? How he can gave the saar as he understood Dharma? Please explain it little more. How?

    There are some more questions in my comments which you didn’t reply. Please go through it again.

    I didn’t understand why did you mentioned first pauri of Japji Sahib ?

    Please elaborate you last para i didn’t understand what you want to say. Please be specific.

    I am still waiting for reply of my first questions when vedas are written and by whom?

  136. Gurmeet Singh says

    might be you have answer to my questions?

    When these vedas were written and by whom? Does anybody knows it?

    You want to compare Vedas guidelines with Guru Granth Sahib’s teaching without knowing who and when these are written? Doesn’t make any sense to me but would like to continue this to understand your state of mind?

    Also I forget to mentioned to Mr. Ankur that I never feels offended and what for?

  137. Ankur says

    @Gurmeet : OK the reply button thing, request you not to get jumpy , after s series of responses the button goes off, you can respond by clicking the latest reply button in the conversation. its how the site is built. Hope you are not contented now.
    a) If you say the the Sun Shines and gives us warmth, would you ask who said this or where/when & by who was it written or you will check and experience it for yourself?
    Truth is not gauged by who or when where , the truth is just truth, whether its written in the veda or Guru Granth Sahib, truth does not change with the book or the author, and one does not need to know a particular language to ascertain the truth, two people can reach to the same conclusion without having ever met or understood each other, that is the beauty of the truth

    if you understood the meaning of first pauri of Japji Sahib you would not have asked the question.

    lastly, i am proud of the sikh Legacy and the 10 Gurus of what they did for Dharma. Nothing can change that. as far as you are concerned you have not understood the Sikhi itself, you are here to pamper your ego and nothing else.
    Jo bole so nihal sat sri Akaal
    Om tat sat.

  138. Gurmeet Singh says

    I give you a detailed reply yesterday on this and somehow it is not appearing now.

    Thanks for letting me know the function of website.

    I am also in the search of truth. That’s why I want to know the truth about Vedas but everyone of you are feeling offended when I am repeatedly asking the writer, origin and source of Vedas. There is only one possibility and that is blind faith. It is practice in Hindu religion/smaaj that they didn’t question or needed evidence of the myths they are listening and followings from the centuries.

    If you really know the Japji Sahib then you never write it down wrongly. Please read it again and find out your mistakes.

    If you really proud of Sikh legacy you never supported the author of this blog. For me you people are not knowing anything about Sikhs and Sikhism.

    Please read book “Hum Hindu Nahin” by Kahn Singh. if you didn’t find it let me know I will send it to you.

    I am not here to pamper my ego but to show you people a mirror.

  139. Ankur says

    For ur information this website under the section vedas has answers to the questions that you ask, regarding origin why and whats.

  140. Gurmeet Singh says

    Please let me know the name of the person ,date and time so that i can read it.

    What about other points I have mentioned? Why you people are ignoring it?

  141. Krishnrao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I’ve had trouble replying and I hope this works. The key thing about the Vedic Dharmic system is simple:

    The Rishi system. Someone who has reached enlightenment which is open to anyone. That means Krishna, Buddha, Rama, and event he Sikh gurus all reached enlightenment. And what they did is not specific to them. Anyone of us can experience what they have experience by doing what they did, practice meditation/Yoga. So it is a living practice, so the source is not what they left, it is they practice, meditation/Yoga.

    Man can reach God directly. No need for prophets or inbetween people.

  142. Amit says

    Hi Gurmeet:
    I am not sure if you have read my earlier comment or not; but I would like to ask you.
    Do u think or believe that Sikhism is the only way to reach Ek Onkar?
    You correctly mentioned that Sikhism follows “Shabad” (Air) as medium to reach God, do you think other tatvas (Water, Fire, Earth & Sky) cannot be used as shown in Hinduism?
    My friend, I still believe, that members of one family work at different places in the city but all reach same home in the evening taking different routes.
    Dont you think so?

  143. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    Does it mean that people should not worship Krishna, Rama, Budha or Sikh Gurus because they are in between people?

    In fact in Sikh religion we didn’t worship in between people because our Gurus instructed us to follow Guru Granth Sahib only and not individuals.

    Please clarify.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  144. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Amit,

    Could you please explain to me what you think “Ek Onkaar” is?

    I agree with you and that is the basic difference between us. I don’t know about other tatavs but if it works then why there is a need to introduce another one.

    Also our Gurus didn’t believes in between people that’s why they gave this world the Guru Grant Sahib. So that if somebody want to speak to God he can just read and understand it.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  145. RamNarayan says

    Dear Gurumeet brother, Namaste!
    Gurus, Rishis, Learned and enlightened human beings are worth respect and worship. We should know what a true worship is. If i don’t listen to the good lessons of my parents, don’t look after them with love, don’t give them what they need when they are alive and erect their idols after their departure and put agarbathi everyday and call it a worship, is not worship but insult. Similarly, Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, Sri Guru Nanak ji’s ideals are to be followed and spread as they stood for dharma. This is their true worship. Coming to their pictures, idols, they are ok as long as they are used to remember their great characters, ideals, teachings.

    Dhanyawaad!

  146. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Ramnarayan,

    I am not able to understand why all of you are generalizing things instead of to be specific on what i asked for?

    it is a common practice by all of you and i think it appears only when you people doesn’t have specific replies to my queries.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  147. RamNarayan says

    Dear Gurumeet ji, Namaste!
    Iam sorry that you didn’t get the answer for
    “Does it mean that people should not worship Krishna, Rama, Budha or Sikh Gurus because they are in between people?” from my earlier response.
    Response to this question in short is:
    They do deserve true respect and worship. I explained you the meaning of worship because many ppl don’t understand what a true worship is
    Dhanyawaad!.

  148. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    No, Vedic people should NOT worship, ie pray, to Krishna, Rama, Buddha, prophet, son of god, godman, guru, or anything else, but pray only to GOD, Omkar.

    We should NOT use idols, statues, people, pictures, black stones or stones, cubes, required directions, or any of that nonsense in pray. Meditation on the One true God is the purest way to pray.

    There is no such thing as prophets, godman, son of god, incarnation of god, superman, xmen, spiderman, or any of that nonsense. There is just people who reached enlightenment and they share that experience with everyone.

    Anyone can reach enlightenment, by using the techniques taught by those who reached enlightenment. Those techniques are the full practice of Yoga which includes meditation.

    Please know, you mix us Vedic people with puranic Hindus. Puranic Hindus believe in idol worship, Vedic Hindus DO NOT.

    Dhanyavad,
    Krishnarao

  149. Krishnarao says

    How should we view Krishna, Rama, 10 Gurus of Sikhi, or Buddha.

    As people we admire, NOT worship or pray to. But historical characters we can admire. Simple as that. What they taught was always there, Yoga, and will always be there. We just need to use it. To use it, we don’t need to know them, but for some of us, it can help us by seeing Yoga being practiced in a real world application.

    Take Einstein for example. For humans to use the discoveries made by him does not require us to know his life story or even know him. It is the tools that is more important. But knowing him might help some people. The same goes for Krishna, Rama, Buddha, or the 10 Gurus of Sikhi.

    I hope this helps.

    Krishnarao

  150. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    Who are Vedic peoples other than Hindus? How you differentiate it? Tell me any of Vedic Hindu from history.

    I am sorry to say but I never met a Hindu who has the same characteristics as you mentioned above. Where are they? What sects they are following? What are their prayers? Please elaborate little more.

    However in Bhagwat Gita Krishna, himself, claims that he is a God. Please correct me if I am wrong. Being a Vedic Hindu I want to know your comments on this to fully understand Vedic Hindu. Please don’t ignore it
    .
    You mentioned that “There is just people who reached enlightenment and they share that experience with everyone. Anyone can reach enlightenment, by using the techniques taught by those who reached enlightenment. Those techniques are the full practice of Yoga which includes meditation.”

    Did you smell Rose? Please explain me how it smells. Just few lines or even a word will be sufficient.

    I am sorry but there are no such techniques or technology or yoga which can take to you to that almighty.
    If you know any technology please let me know.

    If you are not following any Hindu God then why don’t you people follows Sri Guru Granth Sahib and get baptized and become Sikh.

    Actually people thinks that SGGS is only for Sikhs but it is for whole mankind on this earth. It is modern and scientific religion. When you are reading it you are talking to that almighty what else you need and even you don’t need any technology or yoga to do that. You can talk to him any time anywhere. In spite of all this no Gurus claims that they are God himself but used word like “Bechara”, “Bhootna”, “Betaala” for them. in fact there is no place of “I” in Sikh religions it is always “you”.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet Singh

  151. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Ramnarayan,

    You missed reply to some of my questions. Please have a look and reply it, if possible.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  152. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet Singh,

    First I want to say, I have the greatest respect for Sikhs and I agree with a lot of things in the Sikh religion. Most of those things are almost identical to what is in the Vedas and Yogic practices. And I have read large parts of the SGGS and am aware of many teachings of Sikhi. I think if you are sincere and want to really understand Vedic people’s views, you should refrain from trying to evangelize in every other post. If you have questions, yes let us discuss those.

    If you want to evangelize, I would recommend coming to America, North or South, or Africa and evangelizing there. I say this because all three of those areas desperately want to learn about practices that are Vedic or similar like Sikhi. You will get many converts that are black, hispanic, and white. The fruit is here, just waiting for the picking. The problem is Sikhs have done a horrible making their religion aware to people in the Americas or Africa. You guys can get millions of converts there.

    I will address your questions in another post.

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  153. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    I just elaborate what you said yourself and just want to reconfirm it.

    First you said “No, Vedic people should NOT worship, ie pray, to Krishna, Rama, Buddha, prophet, son of god, godman, guru, or anything else, but pray only to GOD, Omkar”

    So i just want to know if Vedic people should NOT worship Krishna then what is your thought when Krishna says in Geeta that he is a God himself. If he said so then why don’t you worship Krishna. What kind of Vedic Hindu you are? You are not worshiping your God. You are contradicting yourself and get annoyed with me.

    If you are a Hindu why it is called Vedic or Puranic? Why you ashamed of being called just a Hindu? why don’t you stand by with all practices now a days followed by pandits and pujaris?

    If i am saying i am Sikh yes i am a Sikh not old sikh, new sikh or puranic sikh.

    I am sorry to say but Hindu religion divided society in different segments called Varnas like Brahmins would be priests and scholars, Kshatriya would be kings, governors and soldiers , the Vaishyas would be cattle herders, agriculturists, merchants and the last the Shudras would be labourers and service providers. How it can be? I heard also that Shudras have no right to enter into temples also. I don’t want to comment on it. it is ……………..

    Waiting for your another post.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet Singh

  154. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    To answer the question about Krishna, which I already answered, no, Vedic people should not pray or worship him. Go back to my previous posts, and you will see I had already answered that. I made it very clear when I said,

    “How should we view Krishna, Rama, 10 Gurus of Sikhi, or Buddha.

    As people we admire, NOT worship or pray to.”

    Can you quote the line in the Geeta where, “Krishna says in Geeta that he is a God himself.” And name the Vedic person who translated that. Give me the name of a non-puranic person, a Vedic person who translated a copy of the Geeta and says, “Krishna says in Geeta that he is a God himself.”

    I have a copy of the Geeta translated by Ravi Prakash Arya, a Vedic Hindu, and no where does Krishna say he is God himself. Please provide your proof. And give me the name of the author who is non-puranic. Give me the name of the author who is Vedic. Many of the Vedic people belong to Arya Samaj.

    And you asked who are these people who follow Vedic Hinduism. Most are Arya Samaj. Many don’t put themselves in any “sect” as you said. They just follow and try not to divide by “sect” or other barriers.

    And I’m not ashamed of being called Hindu. It is you who stated that not me. Do you even know what a puranic Hindu is. It is a Hindu to follows the puranas. Those are the stories about so called gods and goddesses. It is a separate book from the Vedas, and it contradicts the Vedas. That is why Vedic Hindus do not follow the puranas.

    I also noticed you said “I heard”. So you are making assumptions, based on what you hear. Meaning hearsay. I’m sorry buddy, but that is not proof. If you are going to make allegations, you need to get me quotes, sources, and real proof. Not by what you “heard”. Prove me the source.

    I would recommend you read a copy of the Geeta before you comment on it. Go get a copy translated by Ravi Prakash Arya. Also get a copy of the Vedas translated by Dr. Tulsi Ram.

  155. Krishnarao says

    “I am sorry to say but Hindu religion divided society in different segments called Varnas like Brahmins would be priests and scholars, Kshatriya would be kings, governors and soldiers , the Vaishyas would be cattle herders, agriculturists, merchants and the last the Shudras would be labourers and service providers. How it can be? I heard also that Shudras have no right to enter into temples also.”

    – Actually, what your talking about dividing society is caste, not Varna. And Caste is a European word. And caste is practiced by Sikhs too. You have the low caste Sikhs that tie their turbans differently than high caste Sikhs. Now the question about is Caste allowed in the Vedas, NO. You think it is, please provide me the quote from Dr. Tulsi Ram’s translation.

    And now to the word Varna. Do you even know what Varna means. Profession by choice. And the Vedas say we have all four of those traits in us. And based on our own interests and abilities we can pick and choose anyone or combination of them. It is very straight forward. But the word Varna is nothing close to caste.

    Hope that helps.

    Krishnarao

  156. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    When you said Vedics are Arya Smajis then no introduction is required.

    We are well known of the facts that Arya Samajis are the peoples who at the time of division of Punjab written their Language Hindi while speaking in Punjabi. Well Done.

    Also you must be aware of Swami Dayanand who lost direct three debates with Giani Ditt Singh.

    Thanks,

  157. Jay Arya says

    im arya samaji and in bhagvad geeta Krishna does say he is god but maybe dr ravi prakash arya removed verses and things said in geeta which are against the vedas but geeta does say Krishna is god many arya samaji respect geeta but don’t believe in all the verses which are against vedas

  158. Krishnarao says

    Every side will claim they won the debate. LOL. come on man. LOL. Anyways, you seem to go hide when I asked you for quotes, sources, and proof from a Vedic source. If you don’t have the proof for your allegations, no worries. May Love be with you brother. Still have much respect of Sikhi as I mentioned before. Many things it are identical to the Vedic fold.

  159. Krishnarao says

    “Also their is lot of similarities between Arya Smajis and RSS.”

    -If that is the case, there are many similarities between RSS and Sikhi.

    By the way, since you brought up sect, what sect of Sikhi are you:

    Akhand Kirtani Jatha
    Piara Singh Bhaniara
    Contemporary Sant Mat movements
    3HO
    Damdami Taksal
    Mazhabi
    Namdhari
    Nihang
    Nirankari
    Ramraiyas
    Ravidassia Sikhs
    Sanatan Singh Sabha
    Udasi

    Which one are you. Or are you another sect?

  160. Jay Arya says

    yes arya samaj and other hindu group may be linked but they have many differences I don’t know about any arya samaji that is in any of these hindu groups and many of todays practices like sati, modern day caste system, female foeticide, form of slavery,making the widow wear white clothes and not to smile are not practices of Hinduism they are social problems and not hindu problem but they have shown as hindu but ignorant illiterate people and most hindus don’t know anything but im not sure about animal sacrifice and dowry but I know many follow dowry and in west Bengal and Bihar follow animal sacrifice but many of these more common practices only developed in the last 1000 or 2000 years

  161. Gurmeet Singh says

    A true Sikhs follows only Guru Grant Sahib and that’s what I Do.

    I don’t have 33 crores Devi Devtas from which i have to choose.

  162. Gurmeet Singh says

    It is not a similarities but they are working together and it is been revealed by one your RSS member which is our very good friend.

  163. Gurmeet Singh says

    In fact you can go up to Chapter 10 Verse 20 to 42. In which Krishna claiming they he himself is everything either it is Vishnu, Indra, Fire or Sun and lot more things.

    What does it means?

  164. Krishnarao says

    I looked at the site, and I didn’t find who translated those verses. It is most likely a puranic or Hare Krishna site.

    What you are trying to do here is take some random Hindu website and claim it is the representation for ALL HINDUS.

    Well if that is the case, let’s reverse the table. How about we get to pick a random Sikh group and claim it is the representation of Sikhs including you, as you tried with us. How would you like it if someone claimed “Piara Singh Bhaniara” branch of Sikhi is the complete and total representation of all Sikhs everywhere. And the book Baba Bhaniara wrote “Bhavsagar Granth” is the what you guys believe and it is the equivalent to the SGGS and Baba Bhaniara is actually equivalent to the 10 Sikh Gurus and all Sikhs believe this practice that was started by Baba Bhaniara. Go research it, Piara Singh Bhaniara is Sikh group, and there are many followers and they make a sizable percentage of Sikhs. Unlike you I won’t make that claim that one Sikh sect represents all Sikhs because I know there many different branches with vastly different views. And each Sikh branch I encounter, I let them tell me what they follow. I don’t tell them what they follow.

    Homie, you gotta stop being so hostile, I didn’t do anything to you. If you are pissed of about something an RSS guy did or some Arya Samaj guy did, go take it out on them. Don’t try and blow your load on everyone indiscriminately. You end out looking like a jackass.

  165. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I have read through those verses and No where do I find Krishna saying he is God or worship him. Go buy yourself a copy of the Srimad Bhagvad Gita translated by Ravi Prakash Arya. The link is below:

    http://www.amazon.com/Srimad-Bhagvad-Gita-Scientific-Commentary/dp/3846595888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383869249&sr=1-1&keywords=Bhagvad+Gita+Ravi+prakash+Arya

    Krishna is talking about the Atman that is in all of us. He is talking about aham “beginning, the middle, and end of all beings” 10.20. So I’m not sure what you are talking about. The only thing that can remotely be close to your claims is Krishna says follow my message. But that is pretty clear, follow my message, no where does he say I’m God and pray to me. I didn’t find it.

    And yes, it is important you get a copy translated by a Vedic person. Otherwise you are just putting up a false narrative.

    You want us to believe in YOUR VERSION of Hinduism and what you have made up in your own head with pieces taken from some puranic Hindu practices. You had a plan. You wanted to come on here with your false assumptions and say to Hindus, look at all the disgusting and horrible things you follow. When you met us Vedic Hindus, and found out that we also find those things horrible and do not follow them, you got pissed off and tried to forceful tell us we follow those things.

    Since we did not fall into your impress of what we were supposed to be, you went crazy. Sorry buddy, but you need to do a Purva Paksha (Full detailed study) of Vedic people before you debate them. Go read the Vedas and Gita translated by Vedic people. Next time ask us what we believe in, instead of telling us what we are supposed to believe in.

  166. Krishnarao says

    *No Vedic person believes in 330 million gods and goddess. That is one more thing we have in common. And the word devas has many meanings, one of those meanings is referenced to the different forces of nature. It has nothing to do with god or goddess or other nonsense like that.

  167. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    For me there is no difference between you and Piara Singh. He is doing the same as you people are doing.

    You want me to read a Geeta trabslation which is done by a Arya Smajist.

    Let we talk little more about it. Your so called Arya Smaji inventor Mr. Dayanand was born in 1875 and he started so called reforms in Hindu religion. All your Vedic type of things came after that. What about Arya Smaj before his reforms?

    It is not me who pissed of it is you who looks frustrated because you don’t have any replies to straight questions.

    At the end you looks like a helpless human being.

  168. Jay Arya says

    brother Hinduism is not religion like Sikhism or any of the abrhamic beliefs or zorostrianism or baha faith it is diverse and a way of life we have different scholors for different books and views and that website given gurmeet singh is good it corrects some of the errrors in the words used by some translators and I feel for vedas arya samaj is the best but for others it is not arya samaj and baba bhaniara sect is not big at all neither do they influence most Sikhs but the influencial ones which have caused conflict are Namdhari,Nirankari,Santan Sikhi which make major differences than the majority

  169. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    I know it is getting difficult for anybody to take direct questions. Don’t get upset. I am sorry if I make you so. Please be cool.

    The point is that you people are trying to misguide and misleading people by translating Gurbani’s line, instead of whole shabad, in a wrong way. If you want to understand Gurbani then don’t go by lines read complete shabad to know the true meaning.

    Actually it is a similar lesson which we learnt from our teachers and parents whiles studying our schools books in a lower grades but sometime we have to keep reminding some people in their whole life. Don’t read lines read complete para. If in your education you need to read in complete to understand it how you can understand Gurbaani by reading just one line? Makes no sense. I hope you and admin of this site will keep in mind a very small lesson of our childhood. I am sorry but I learnt it and assuming you also got it.

    When you people are claiming Guru Nanak actually promoted Vedic guideline or teaching then you are undermining our Guru. If he has to do that then why he didn’t become reformer of Vedic at that time when Vedas, Puranas, and Upnishads were also exists at that point of time?

    Why there is a need of new Granth/Guru? Why almighty send him? Why he recite Gurbaani when lot of texts are already available in other forms? I am repeating these questions because I didn’t get a reply earlier. I hope you or admin of this will not disappoint me this time.

    I am very much confident in saying that in a Kalyug if you have to reach that almighty only SGGS can help you. TRUST ME. But instead of getting a benefit from SGGS by following its teaching you people are creating a shameless debate here. I am not here to defame or disrespect anybody but to show you people a mirror.

  170. Gurmeet Singh says

    Continue reading …………

    I am following this blog from so long and when other people are not agree with your point of view then you people start discriminating them with low level of language and your admin I don’t know who he is also don’t care to remove those. I read a language used against Muslims, Sikh Gurus and other religious heads it is pathetic. This is what you called followers of Vedic Hindus. I am sorry but I cannot compete with you people on this. You WON.

    Also when I tried the same thing in a different way you started crying and forget to use decent language.
    As one your blogger claimed that Guru Nanak was a born brahimin ((by sacha banda on Dec 26, 2012 at 10:36 pm). Can’t he be a Pujari or Vedic reformer? Can’t he? Why didn’t he?

    One of your another blogger Dr Vivek Arya says on November 10, 2012 at 11:03 am that Swami Dayanand is also right that had Guru Nanak got an opportunity to study Vedas, he would have strengthened Vedic Dharma directly. But this is also true that it took several more centuries of butcherings and rapes, then British Rule, then influx of slightly more liberal social norms, better technology to provide opportunity to Swami Dayanand to study Vedas and present them in the form we know today. Even Swami Dayanand had to put unusual hardships to procure Vedas as foolish casteists would prefer to keep them hidden from world or even their own intellect. So tough was it for Swami Dayanand to get access to Vedic wisdom that he had once even contemplated suicide. Thankfully that was the last time he ever thought negative, and hence you and me are in a position to enlighten the world with Vedic wisdom.

    Have you read it before? What does it implies? (Since there is no clarification by the Admin so it is assumed that he is also agree with this)

    Continue reading………………….

  171. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I know you are getting frustrated, but go back to my previous posts, and you will see, I only had positive things to say, or real questions.

    You made a statement, “The point is that you people are trying to misguide and misleading people by translating Gurbani’s line, instead of whole shabad, in a wrong way. If you want to understand Gurbani then don’t go by lines read complete shabad to know the true meaning.”
    – I’m sorry, but I never participated in any of this, and you are accusing an entire community of people for the actions of a few. Why don’t you point out the people who you are dissatisfied with and blame them. Instead of saying all Hindus are responsible for that action. It’s like me accusing you of murder because of the actions of one Sikh who committed murder. You need to stop making generalizations. A sign of an educated person is someone who can point to the specifics instead of making generalized accusations.

  172. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    “Why there is a need of new Granth/Guru? Why almighty send him? Why he recite Gurbaani when lot of texts are already available in other forms? I am repeating these questions because I didn’t get a reply earlier. I hope you or admin of this will not disappoint me this time.”

    – By this statement, you are assuming there can only be ONE book or one group of books out there and none else. This is where I disagree with you 100%. The Vedas do say there are many paths to the One God. So when a Vedic person say the Sikh Gurus are just reiterating the same message as the Vedas, we are not taking away from the Sikhs but complementing them that the Sikhs and Hindus share a great deal and we are brothers and sisters. Yes, we have some cosmetic differences, but the essence is the same.

    And those same things are the ones I listed earlier, go back to those points I made. Most are very very deep similarities. In actuality, the similarities between Vedic Hindus and Sikhs than any other group in the world. The essence of the Vedas is Love and that Love is expressed through the four main components of Yoga: Meditation on One God, Service to mankind and environment, devotional music, and Study of spirituality and science. All of this done without idol worship or use of prophet, son of god, godman, superman or xman (no one inbetween, just you and God) Same thing as in Sikhi.

    Question you need to ask yourself, if someone follows Yoga as mentioned above, as I do, does that person have the ability to reach the highest state of consciousness and reach Moksha, or do they have to be Sikh to reach Moksha?

  173. Gurmeet Singh says

    He is saying Guru Nanak read Vedas (however one of your blogger said Guru Nanak didn’t know Sanskrit that’s why his Gurbaani is in Gurmukhi) but actually it is Swami Dayanand who actually presented it in a form which it has today.

    What does it mean? Please explain.

    Please correct me if I am wrong. Swami Dayanand who is born in 1875 and created his new sect called Arya Smaaj by making some adjustments in old system which nowadays is called reforms.

    Please prove me with the facts (you are very good in this) if you have that he was not an inventor of Arya
    Smaaj and Arya Smaaj exists before his birth.

    I am sorry but I didn’t know he tried SUICIDE too. This is what you are a proud of. Come on.

  174. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    I am not responsible for some else’s post. Please ask them about that post.

    I never heard of Dayanand Saraswati (born in 1824) ever trying to commit suicide. Please provide your source.

    And Arya Samaj is a reform movement. Not a religion. Prior to Arya Samaj people followed the Vedic principles and the evidence is Dayanand Saraswati’s teach taught him these Vedic values. ANd his teacher’s name is Swami Virajananda Dandi. Vedic people were always there.

    The real question you need to ask yourself, what existed before Sikhi. Was there anything pure as your Sikhi before Sikhi, or did God abandon humanity for the vast majority of human history and only decided to help humanity in the last 500 or 300 years?

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  175. Krishnarao says

    And Gurmeet,

    And I have read large parts of the SGGS. And even parts of the Dassam Granth (ANd I know it is highly debated among the Sikh community if that book should be part of the Sikh religion or not). And I said before, I do believe the SGGS is a beautiful book. It has some very real and good information for humanity. But I see no use of growing your hair long or wear a bangle around your hand. I understand why the 5Ks came about, because of the environment and oppression by the muslim rulers of the time. But keeping your hair long, especially in some parts of America, it can actually get you killed. There are certain bugs that stick to your hair and can infect you with a disease, so most people keep short hair and wash it frequently in order to avoid such diseases in certain parts of America. I understand the discipline part and etc. about the five ks, but there is some health conflict with the 5k.

    My friend’s mother is a nurse here in America (And she is white), and there was a Sikh man with a fully tied turban who had come to the hospital with blood coming from his head. When they opened up his turban, they found a group of spiders, black widows, trapped in his turban. Unfortunately the man died because they got to him way to late. This is not isolated to Sikhs. I have heard of these cases with many people who wear a turban. Sometimes it is spiders and other times it other bugs. All kinds of things end out hiding in there. My dispute is the health issues we face with some parts of the 5k.

  176. Gurmeet Singh says

    Since you are same side of the table you can’t say that.

    Also could you please let me know how Swami Dayanand was died? I means to say is it natural death? If so please provide evidence.

    I am glad that you also starting “heard”. The source was your own pal who is in your side and the fact was that he denied the access to Vedas which is acceptable because it happens in some other areas. It is a common practice in Hindu religions to not sharing Vedas with all Hindus but selected (upper casts Hindus only) and it can be proved by giving lot of examples. One of those is; in some temples Shudras and NON-HINDUS are still not allowed even nowadays.

    What about your say about it? I know one would be you are not in favour of it since you are Arya Smaji.
    Then what Arya Smaj did it to correct it? What they are doing even before 300 or 500 years ago? When all this was happening? Where were your Arya Smajis?

    In fact, at that time only Brahmins are allowed to be teacher or scholar. Where were Vedics at that time? Please give any name or reference.

    What was method before Hinduism? How old Hinduism is? In fact do you know how Hindu word derived?

  177. Krishnarao says

    Just to add to my point, Rig Veda does say there are many paths to the ONe God, but it doesn’t say All paths lead to the One God. As long as those paths fall in the principles of Yoga like:

    the four main components of Yoga: Meditation on One God, Service to mankind and environment, devotional music, and Study of spirituality and science. All of this done without idol worship or use of prophet, son of god, godman, superman or xman (no one inbetween, just you and God), bowing to required directions, required pilgrimage, placing some geographic place higher in status, and etc.

  178. Gurmeet Singh says

    You are claiming that you know teaching, basic of Sikh religion and read SGGS also. I am sure you didn’t. I have also doubt if you have read your own BOOKS as well. In Hindu religion the Geeta, Veds or all other religious texts could be book for you but for us SGGS is a Guru.

    “Sab sikhan kō hukam hai gurū mānyō granth”
    “All Sikhs are commanded to take the Granth as Guru.”
    by Guru Gobind Singh, October 1708, Nanded

    I am not sure if you are capable to talk about Sikhism.

    Anyway if a person who claims that he knows Sikh religion and didn’t respect SGGS and mentioned them a “BOOK” then for us he is LIAR. I thought you are a religious person but I am sorry to say but you didn’t know how to respects other people’s faith. In fact it is in our culture (Indians) and our etiquettes (if someone has) also in all religions to respect faith of other religions.

    I AM SURE YOU DIDN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SIKHISM.

    Your problem is that you didn’t read my replies with normal state of mind but with negativity. My point was methods; techniques mentioned in Vedas or by yogas or any other way are not working the way it should be. “When you are saying the Sikh Gurus are just reiterating the same message as the Vedas,” my question is same as asked before why there is need of new religion if Vedas are working fine as per you. Does it means Sikh Gurus made a mistake by giving is a living guru in the shape of SGGS because some super intelligent people like you are thinking that it was already in the Vedas? I NEED your reply to this question before you move left or right.

    First you reply to above mentioned question then we discuss “Moksha” as well.

  179. Gurmeet Singh says

    Come on. I am not frustrated but you are. You are avoiding reply to most of the questions but starting new subject. I will keep asking you unanswered questions.

    Since you people are participating in favour of this blog so all of you are sitting on the other side of the table. If you are not satisfied with anybody’s reply why don’t you stand up and say so. Most of the time silent consider as approval. However some time it was pointed out to your own reformer Swami Dayanand but you people are so desperate to undermine Sikh religion forget to correct that or even contradict that.

    It shows your actual state of mind which has only one point agenda i.e. criticise Sikh Gurus and their teachings without knowing the facts.

  180. Gurmeet Singh says

    This is entirely a different subject will discuss you later definitely after you reply to all my questions mentioned above. However you don’t know the basics of Sikhism but i will teach you those.

    Please do not try to provoke me and run away from my direct questions.

    I will not allow you to do so.

  181. Gurmeet Singh says

    Did you know anything about Bhai Taru Singh and Bhai Mani Singh?

    You can take a help of Google and share with me.

  182. Krishnarama says

    You still haven’t answered my question:

    What was there before Sikhi? Was there anything as pure as Sikhi before Sikhi, or did God abandon humanity until the last 500 or 300 years?

  183. Gurmeet Singh says

    If you go my myths there are lot of Devis, Devtas and their teachings and beliefs which Arya Smajis didn’t believed. So i am confused now.

    Since all of these are not working so I don’t know which one should i mention? Could you please help me if you know which one is working?

    If i go by History then you know my answer.

    Don’t get confused or irritate? You also left some questions unanswered.

  184. RamNarayan says

    Dear Gurumeet, Namaste!
    We are not favoring any site in particular. We are just readers of this site that is standing by vedic values and true dharma. We didn’t want to interrupt the discussion going and cause any additional confusion.
    Aryasamaj is not anything new or special that can be called invented. It is just a social organization with 10 vedic principles, where anybody can join irrespective of any caste/creed/religion. One can be vedic and a non-aryasamaji.
    You are either misunderstanding or misquoting the values. Vedic principles did exist before swami dayanand and only those values are to be respected not aryasamaj or swami Dayananad. We only appreciate his guts to stand against the evil practices of the presend day hinduism. He tried to bring everybody to the vedic fold.
    We are requesting you to speak your stand about Sikhism. Does the things mentioned in Guru Granth existed before Sikhism or not?

  185. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    You asked many many questions. I am just asking on general question.

    What was there before Sikhi that was as pure and as good as Sikhi; or did God abandon humanity for most of human history until the last 300 or 500 years?

  186. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear RamNarayan, Sat Sri Akal,

    Please let me know if you and Krishnarao are living together. If not then I am right when i consider you people on other side of the table.

    You people must make clear what you are. In the beginning Krishnarao said he is not Hindu but Vedic hindu. Since there is two types of Hindus one is called Vedic and other are Puranic or Puratans. Then after he said Vedic Hindus are Arya Samjis. Now you are saying something different.

    You are saying Vedics are not believed in caste/creed/religion then why are so much definitions of yours. In fact you are disowning now Swami Dayanand also.

    Krishnarao:

    Since you are dodging my questions so i have to ask again and again. Since you and RamNaryan asking the similar questions so my replies is mentioned below from SGGS: In this shabad it is clearly mentioned about the situation before his or Sikhi’s birth. Please let me know if you agree otherwise i can quote you lot more.

    sathigur naanak pragattiaa mittee dhundh jag chaanan hoaa|
    With the emergence of the True Guru Nanak, the mist cleared and the light scattered all around.

    jio kar sooraj nikaliaa thaarae shap andhaer paloaa|
    As if at the sun rise the stars disappeared and the darkness dispelled.

    singh bukae miragaavalee bhannee jaae n dheer dharoaa|
    With the roar of the lion in the forest the flocks of escaping deer now cannot have endurance.

    jithai baabaa pair dhar poojaa aasan thaapan soaa|
    Wherever Baba put his feet, a religious place was erected and established.

    sidh aasan sabh jagath dhae naanak aadh mathae jae koaa|
    All the siddh-places now have been renamed on the name of Nanak.

    ghar ghar andhar dharamasaal hovai keerathan sadhaa visoaa|
    Every home has become a place of dharma where singing.

    baabae thaarae chaar chak noukhandd prithamee sachaa toaa|
    Baba liberated all four directions and

  187. Gurmeet Singh says

    One more quote:

    garr bagadhaadh nivaaeikai makaa madheenaa sabhae nivaaeiaa|
    After making Baghdad, the citadel (of Pirs) bow, Mecca, Medina, and, all were humbled.

    sidh chouraaseeh manddalee khatt dharasan paakhandd janaaeiaa|
    He (Baba Nanak) subjugated and eighty four Siddhs and the hypocrisies of the six schools of Indian philosophy.

    paathaalaa aakaas lakh jeethee dharathee jagath sabaaeiaa|
    Lacs of underworlds, the skies, earths and the whole world were conquered.

    jeethee noukhandd maedhanee sathinaam dhaa chakr firaaeiaa|
    Subjugating all the nine divisions of earth he established the cycle of Satnam, the True name.

    dhaev dhaano raakas dhaith sabh chith gupath sabh charanee laaeiaa|
    All the Gods, Demons, Raksasa, Deities, Chitragupt et al. bowed at his feet.

    eindhraasan apasharaa raag raaganee mangal gaaeiaa|
    Indra and his nymphs sang auspicious songs.

    bhaeiaa anandh jagath vich kalithaaran gur naanak aaeiaa |
    The world filled with joy because Guru Nanak came to give deliverance to the Kalyug.

    hindhoo musalamaan nivaaeiaa |37|
    He made Hindu-Muslim humble and suppliant.(37)

  188. Gurmeet Singh says

    All these are line to line explanation if you need more then it can be added on request. If you really ant to understand Gurbani then you must read and understand complete shabad and not just some words and use and explained it the way which suits you.

    Gurmat does not permit this type of practices. We consider it as a disrespect to Gurbani and Gurus.

    I hope the Admin of this site will also read it.

  189. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    Thanks for the quotes, but the quotes still do not answer my question. All it says is what happened after the Sikh Gurus came. It doesn’t say if there was anything as pure and good as Sikhi before Sikhi.

    Here is what I asked:
    “What was there BEFORE Sikhi that was as pure and as good as Sikhi; or did God abandon humanity for most of human history until the last 300 or 500 years?”

    Krishnarao

  190. Krishnarao says

    Hi Gurmeet,

    Thanks for the quotes, but the quotes still do not answer my question. All it says is what happened after the Sikh Gurus came. It doesn’t say if there was anything as pure and good as Sikhi before Sikhi.

    Here is what I asked:
    “What was there BEFORE Sikhi that was as pure and as good as Sikhi; or did God abandon humanity for most of human history until the last 300 or 500 years?”

    Did God choose not to provide anything as pure as Sikhi prior to 500 years ago?

    Krishnarao

  191. Adam says

    Dear Gurmeet and Krishnarao,

    I come from a Jewish background, but am not very religious. I do practice Yoga, believe in science, and evolution. Yoga has brought me a great deal of peace, and science has given be a great deal of understanding of this universe. I came across this webpage looking for things that relate to Yoga and saw your debate. I have read about Hinduism, but just started reading about Sikhism. I find both religions to have a lot of great information, and I would like to learn more about both.

    I ask both of you to keep the peace. Both religions have lots of great information and both are helping humankind all over the world.

    Adam the evolutionist

  192. Adam says

    Gurmeet, Sat Sri Akal,

    I’m also curious, after reading your debate with Krishnarao, was there anything like Sikhism before the Sikh religion?

    Adam the evolutionist

  193. Krishnarao says

    Hi Adam,

    Thank you for your post. And glad to hear someone is also is wondering if there was something like Sikhi before Sikhi.

    Best,
    Krishnarao

  194. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Krishnarao,

    I am sorry to say but your reply exposed your lies. You are claiming from the beginning that your read SGGS and knows it very well. But you disappoint me, man. You are not able to understand a simple Shabad which explained very well that what was before Guru Nanak.

    I can send you more reference from Gurbani but it will be like speaking something to Deaf.

    I request you to read once again and try to find your answer.

    I am replying to your query since you are looking very much excited to your simple question and still avoiding reply to my questions.

    Since this debate was to provide evidence and authenticity of Vedas. Which is still not provided?

    Adam, I have lot of Jewsh friends in Israel and we also keep discussing some similar topics. It will be great to discussing it with you as well. I am sorry but where are you residing in Israel and which part may be you know any of my friends.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  195. Gurmeet Singh says

    Please find below more details;

    brehamaadhik vaedhaa sanai naeth naeth kar bhaedh n paaeiaa|
    mehaadhaev avadhooth hoe namo namo kar dhiaan n aaeiaa|
    dhas avathaar akaar kar eaekankaar n alakh lakhaaeiaa|
    ridh sidh nidh naath no aadh purakh aadhaes karaaeiaa|
    sehas naav lai sehas mukh simaran sankh n naao dhiaaeiaa|
    lomas thap kar saadhanaa houmai saadh n saadh sadhaaeiaa|
    chir jeevan bahu hantanaa guramukh sukh fal pal n chakhaaeiaa|
    kudharath andhar bharam bhulaaeiaa|14|

    Brahmas along with the Vedas have declared Him this is not, this is not (neti neti) and these all could not known His mystery.
    By becoming avadhut (a kind of superior Yogi), Madadev also recited his name but his meditation could not attain him.
    Ten incarnations also flourished but none could perceive Ekankar, the supreme Lord.
    Nine naths, the treasures of miraculous powers, also bowed before that Lord.
    Sesang (mythical snake) with its thousand mouths remembered Him by thousands of names, but its recitation could not be accomplished.
    Sage Lomas rigorously undertook ascetic discipline but could not overcome his ego and could not be called a True ascetic.
    Ever-living Markandey spent a long life but could not taste the pleasure fruit of the Gurmukhs.
    All mentioned above remained deluded while living on earth.(14)

  196. Adam says

    Dear Gurmeet,

    I don’t live in Israel. I live in the US. I’m a college student. The last time I been to Israel I was 10 years old. I consider myself to be culturally Jewish, but I’m not a religious Jew. Honestly I eat pork. I would say my religion is science. But I am very spiritual. I do believe in a God, but I don’t believe in any of the religions that associate themselves with God. I follow my own path. And my own path lead me to Yoga. I find Yoga to be amazing and remarkable. I hope to learn Sanskrit one day and read Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras.

    I was actually introduced to Yoga from a Hindu roommate (Jay). He was doing Yoga in our apartment, and I asked if I can join him. Jay was very nice and more than eager to share what he knew. Before I knew it, I would be joining him in morning asanas and ending with meditation (sometimes saying AUM). I really liked the meditation part, it was soothing and peaceful. After Jay moved out, I continued to practice Yoga, and I found myself wanting to learn more about the practice. I read the Bhagavad Gita and found it to be inspiring. I’m not saying I agreed with every single line or verse, but overall, I like the message. I liked the focus on Yoga and meditation, and our responsibility to do our duty.

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to bore you with my life story. I get a little excited when I talk about Yoga and spirituality.

    And Gurmeet, please take it easy on Krishnarao. I’m not sure where your aggression is coming from. I read his posts, and he seems like he means well.

    And Krishnarao, try to express the love you talked about to Gurmeet. There is no reason to respond to aggression with aggression.

    With peace and love,
    Adam

  197. Gurmeet Singh says

    Dear Adam,

    Thanks for all your theory of life and everyone has a right to live his own way. I was expecting the same answer as you replied. I am very well aware of how this blog thing works and how a team of people replies as different person from different locations. Also you are being a Jewish and not religious, living in US with Hindu roommate and have faith in Hinduism. What a coincidence?

    I don’t care. But if somebody misrepresent the Gurbani to suits his own way then I (we) got aggressive much more than what I am now.

    Mr. Jan Arya, I am sure you are also belongs to the same category as Mr. Krishna is. I have already give him a reference from SGGS which you people don’t understand. I have no better words than that.

    So what you can do is there is lot of question unanswered by Mr. Krishnarao. Do you have any reply on those or just want to stick to your already answered question as he is doing?

    I am sure you peoples are not out replies.

    Thanks,

    Gurmeet

  198. Gurmeet Singh says

    However you people didn’t understand what was before Sikhism as per Gurbaani but giving a chance again if you can understand this:

    bhee gilaan jagath vich chaar varan aasram ouaepaaeae|
    dhas naam sanniaaseeaa jogee baareh panth chalaaeae|
    jangam athae saraevarrae dhagae dhiganbar vaadh karaaeae|
    brehaman bahu parakaar kar saasathr vaedh puraan larraaeae|
    khatt dharasan behoo vair kar naal shathees pakhandd ralaaeae|
    thanth manth raasaaeinaa karaamaath kaalakh lapattaaeae|
    eikas thae bahu roop kar roop kuroopee ghanae dhikhaaeae|
    kalijug andhar bharam bhulaaeae |19|

    In view of the prevailing lassitude in the world, four varnas and four Ashrams were established.
    Then ten orders of ascetics and twelve orders of Yogis came into being.
    Further jangams, the wanderers, sramans and digambrs, naked jain ascetics also started their disputations.
    Many Categories of Brahmins came into being who propounded Shastras, Vedas and Purans contradicting one another.
    The mutual incompatibility of the six Indian philosophies further added many hypocrisies.
    Alchemy, tantra, mantra and miracles became everything for people.
    By getting divided into myriad sects (and castes) they produced a horrible look.
    They all were deluded by Kalyug.(19)

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