Textual Preservation in Vedas

Once upon a time, cyberspace used to be dominated by fanatics. They included not only hackers and terrorists associations but also witchdoctors and scientists specializing in superstitions. They all had only one mission – to subdue all voices that don’t sing chorus with their own call of divine. Mortal remains of their deeds can still be witnessed in internet archives. In those times, they would proudly assert that only they have passport of heaven, and whosoever disagrees even slightly shall not be forgiven – here and hereafter.

Their impact was spread across the world. But Indians – being the potentially most attractive population segment for their mission – were a special focus for them.  Their witchdoctors thus created a lot of ready-made material which would be copy-pasted by the junior level missionaries across various discussion boards, social networking sites, blog sites, comments section of blog sites to dissuade Indians from their culture and its foundation towards the only way to achieve a virgins-ful heaven. The proof of their claim was visible to entire humanity through the marks on the moon that proved its splitting 14 centuries ago!

They were being very successful in their mission and this success made them proclaim that their dominance would increase with increasing penetration of internet among masses. By 2013, India was estimated to be fully dominated as per claims of their TV Channels. But then Agniveer came. And scenario changed. Now suddenly their copy-paste would get countered by similar copy-pastes from Agniveer site. Google would show up Agniveer site in Top 10 searches on most of the controversial topics that they would like Indians to be confused about.

Agniveer was a very humble small scale attempt without recourse to petro-dollars or millions of bucks. But it struck where it hurt the most. Agniveer did nothing great – it simply showed them the mirror. It proved to them that they have no logical basis to claim that only their belief system is perfect and everything else is a passport for hell. It showed them there is no evidence to prove that the holy scripture of theirs is indeed the same as provided by whom they claim to be their founder. And that blind belief devoid of reason is only a recipe to nurture terrorists. Agniveer also countered silly allegations on Indian culture through authoritative analysis and evidences.

Now suddenly their plans went awry. One celebrated witchdoctor in their team announced recently that he would not argue or debate with certain ‘sects’ ever. Many others attempted to redefine their interpretations of their scriptures. But there are many who followed the deeds of the monkey of Panchatantra. In Panchatantra, there is a story of a monkey who was shivering in rain because he had no home. A sell-intentioned pigeon advised him to build a home so that he does not have to face such troubles again. The monkey got angry on this and destroyed the nest of the pigeon to ensure that even she does not have a home. This is what terrorist mind is all about – foolishness, anger, vindictiveness.

Similar minds have started countering Agniveer by denigrating the Vedas on most frivolous pretexts because they could not explain how they could demand the entire world to follow ONLY their book which was compiled only after 20 years of the murder of the peace-loving saintly founder by a gang which was itself murdered by yet another group. Even that book is not available fully today. But ‘Buffalo belongs only to one who has the stick’ seems to be their mantra.

A recent attempt has been by writing articles based on extremely outdated claims to prove that Vedas are also textually corrupted. We initially chose to ignore this long-rejected frivolous claim. We thought that someone else would counter it along with flat-earth theory while we focus on other prominent tasks. But considering the widespread promotion that is being provided to this viewpoint by petro-dollar power holders, we thought to have at least a short analysis debunking the myth. Because in an era of misinformation, truth is often nothing but a lie shouted thousand times!

We shall only provide brief concepts here that can be used by anyone to deduce the truth. We simply want to ensure that we do not act like pigeons to counter the terrorist monkey. Lets be gorillas instead!

To read the original allegation, you can simply type ‘Textual Corruption in Vedas’ in google and check the variants. We don’t want to provide a link and help popularize new names to replace old fanatics whose demise the world is celebrating today!


We shall provide brief summary of allegation and our analysis.

Here we start:

Prologue

1.

Even if someone conclusively proves that Vedas available today are textually corrupted/ incomplete or that an alien came in space-ship to replace original Vedas with a duplicate inferior variety it does not matter much. This is because:

- Vedas are not supposed to be merely mugged up and followed blindly or narrated like a parrot to invoke its divine powers or split the moon. The very word ‘Veda’ means knowledge. And hence Vedas have to be followed or adopted only to the extent that it is intuitive or reasonable to your own mind. So if you bring even the greatest scholar in the world to prove to me that Rigveda 1.1.5 means that “The one who claim to be a doctor, possesses a goat-beard but wear a suit-tie and tie, and asserts that all non-believers would go to Hell and apostates deserve being killed – should be greeted with footwear”, then I am not going to believe it. Because my own intellect and whatever I understood from Vedas so far tell me that fake should be countered with arguments and intellect, and not with symbolic gestures of frustrations that are insulting.

And by following my conscience in this manner to best of my abilities without bringing ego in picture, I would be following the Vedas.

- Vedas are supposed to be already encoded within our minds. What we read in books is merely a way to decode this knowledge. This is like the Laws of Motion. You don’t have to mug up what Newton wrote in Latin in Principia to understand the laws of motion. You approach the knowledge intuitively. And then to fulfill needs of further understanding, you may also learn Latin or whatever as situation demands. But you do so driven by logic and not guided by blind belief that mugging up will give to Heaven. We still refer to the texts because though technically it is possible for all of us to deduce the Laws of Motion and Theory of Relativity all by ourselves but it would become a very time-consuming process. We don’t take works of Newton or Einstein for mugging up blindly, we use them as check-posts to help us guide to right path in a manner that is intuitive/ logical to us.

So even if few pages of Principia are torn, or there are some misprints, or a few pages mixed up, it does not matter much because all that means is that for some parts, we will have to put a bit more extra effort to understand what exactly they meant. And especially if you are only a Class 1 student, these apparent mistakes would actually mean nothing at all for you.

In same vein, if an advanced scholar of Vedas complains of being stalled due to inaccessibility to certain portions of Vedas, it could still be understood. We are still puzzled on how Fermat’s Theorem could be elegantly solved because some pages of his diary are found missing! But if you asked after reading the last sentence – Who is Fermat? – then you don’t even need to bother about the missing pages!

2.

Those attempting to belittle the Vedas come with malevolent intent and not genuine intention to seek truth. While a Vedic follower would very clearly proclaim that we would reject any translation of Vedas that do not appeal to our conscience or is logically unsound, these fanatics would never ever say that they would follow the same standard for their text. They would never assert that there remains a scope that their text has been tampered with because it was written only 20 years after suspicious death of original founder by a murdering group of fighters.

They cannot do so because their cult has a rule – if someone turns apostate – kill him. So its a one way traffic – they shall never accept the truth and would continue to ridicule and decimate the non-believers. But the rest of us are supposed to accept their way merely because we are not taught to be fanatic!

3.

Proving textual corruption in Vedas will not result in the conclusion that any other text is divine. And even if corruption is proved in Vedas, that does not have much significance for reasons discussed above. So such attempts only showcase that the monkey of Panchatantra lives even today. I say this because the same sites and people that attempt to prove corruption in the Vedas are also the ones who openly promise permanent Hell for non-believers and defend those who justify death for apostates.

The goal of this article is merely to reassure that while we should keep caution of these dangerous monkeys, we should not take their monkey arguments seriously.

There is another story in Panchatantra about monkeys where a king and the minister went for a trip. They saw a lot of monkeys in a place. Every monkey was doing some monkey act – throwing stones, jumping, fighting each other, making noises etc. But there sat a monkey in one remote corner who was sitting in lotus position with eyes closed. The king said to the minister, “Look! This monkey looks like a saint. How peacefully is he sitting in meditation. Let us go and seek his blessings.” The minister replied, “O King! Don’t be duped by these acts of monkeys. Even this pretense of meditation by a monkey is a monkey-act. Lets move ahead.” The king refused, went to the monkey and bowed in front of him. Suddenly the monkey jumped, snatched the crown of the king, and ran away!

We hope the kings of this world would pay heed to this humble minister and protect their crowns.

Let me assure you that all these allegations on Vedas are baseless. There is always a remote possibility that Vedas are corrupted, or that there are 7 skies, or that moon was split into two when someone pointed finger, or that the hobbits of Lord of the Rings actually live in our cities, or that sun is smaller to earth and sets in a mud-pond, or that certain stones can snatch your clothes and run away, or that certain donkeys have face of a woman and can fly you to moon and 7 skies. And when we find reasonable evidences for these, we would be glad to not only accept these but promote them as well.

But for that to happen, more rational and plausible evidences have to be brought in light than these outdated frivolous ones.

Allegation 1: Different texts talk of different number of Vedas. No one is sure whether there is 1 Veda, or 3 or 4 or 5.

Agniveer:

1. Those who allege this should first read our article – http://agniveer.com/5090/fountainhead-philosophies-vedas/ that explains that its all about definitions. Just as I can define you as 1 person, or a group of 1 brain, 2 eyes, 2 nosetrils, 2 ears etc or as 2 different persons due to split personality causing confusion or whatever. But they all point to same thing.

Similarly, scholars have defined Vedas variously. If you consider only knowledge, Vedas is only 1. If you consider Para and Apara knowledge (liberating and mundane knowledge), then Vedas are 2. If you focus on Knowledge, Action and Contemplation, Vedas are 3. If you consider Rik, Yajuh, Sama, Atharva, Vedas are 4. If you consider each mandala of Rigveda as separate, then there are 10 Rigvedas. Similarly we have 40 Yajurvedas. If you take each mantra as a different Veda, you have more than 20,000 Vedas.

So number does not matter. They all point to same set of mantras.

2. Many Upanishads and Manu Smriti talk of Vedas coming from Agni, Vayu, Aditya, Angira. Some view these as Rishis in inception of human civilization. Others term them as innate sources of nature that inspired the Rishis. Whatever be the case, there is no denial that a select few Rishis got the knowledge of Vedas first and then they propagated in a manner that there remains perfect standardization since then.

Now these names Agni, Vayu, Aditya, Angira are nothing more than Unique IDs. These names depict their areas of specialization in same manner as Subhash Chandra Bose is called Netaji and Krishna is called Madhusudan. It is not that they were born with birth-certificates of these names on basis of which they were admitted in some schools or their Voter Cards were made. So just because Aditya is called Surya somewhere does not affect the Vedas in any manner. Atharvaveda is also called Angirasa because they depict characteristics of a particular Veda. Vedas are themselves called by different names depending upon what aspect of their property we want to focus upon.

The beauty of Vedic literature lies in the fact that words are not used with pre-decided arbitrary meanings to force the mind to think in specific directions. Instead words are derived from roots (which again are based on how each pronunciation impacts our minds) and hence verses allow the mind to think originally and discover new essence in a state of deep contemplation. So focus is on liberation and not imprisonment of intellect. And since it is already within you, you don’t simply mug up the meaning or even translate a meaning. You FEEL the meaning within. The very test of whether you understand a mantra or not is that whether you could intuitively FEEL the meaning from within. If not, don’t worry! Keep practicing, keep using your faculty of thinking and keep following your inner voice!

3. Vedas are very commonly classified into 3 because they represent 3 kinds of knowledge – Theory, Actions, Contemplation. Rigveda focuses more on theory, Yajurveda on actions and Samaveda on Contemplation. Note that they are not independent silos. They are merely overall themes. You cannot be expert in one unless you are also master of the other two. And that is why you would find a lot of repetition of verses in the different Vedas. It is just that the FEELING changes with change in context.

Now Atharvaveda is all about Practical Applications – integration of the wisdom of rest of the 3 Vedas. So often it is not referred separately. It is automatically included in the themes of rest of the 3 Vedas in same manner as Practical classes are assumed to be part of the subject of Physics along with Theory. So primarily Rik, Yajuh and Sama are mentioned in literature. Atharvaveda is also called Chhanda and mentioned wherever necessary.

4.

Q: Why Manu Smriti and Swami Dayanand talk of completing study of Vedas in 36 years by devoting 12 years on each Vedas? This means Vedas are only 3.

A: As explained earlier, Atharveveda is already included in the course curriculum. It is impossible to understand any Veda without referring to Atharvaveda for all of us except those who might have mastered all this in their previous birth and are born as Rishis since birth. For lesser mortals, when Rigveda or Yajurveda or Samaveda is to be mastered, the relevant portions of Atharvaveda have to be practiced to understand the applications. After all theory is incomplete without practicals.

This confusion comes in minds of those for whom study of a scripture only means becoming a Haafiz who could mug up and narrate the verses like a parrot. While mugging up is often useful and at times very necessary to preserve the Vedas, it is a very special course for very specific minds. For most of us, spending 12 years reading Physics will not mean spending time mugging the books. Further you don’t need to spend 12 years to mug up each Veda! Something like Yajurveda has less than 2000 mantras that can be completed in less than a year if mugging is all that has to be done.

In reality, even when you are mastering one particular Veda, you must study other Vedas as well and gain a reasonable proficiency in them. This is like Engineering Colleges having courses on Physics, Maths, English, Psychology, Economics etc as well.

So if you put 36 years on Vedas, don’t worry. Atharvaveda would automatically be taken care of.

5.

Q: What about 1131 branches/ shakhas of Vedas? Everyone knows that only a few of them remain today. All the other branches are lost.

A: Oh No. Not again. Branch refers to a particular recension style of Vedas to emphasize certain aspects and making it relevant to existing time and society. Branches or Shakhas are not eternal. But original Vedas have been preserved as they were even till today. Most Shakhas went extinct during a long period of misrule. But nonetheless our forefathers ensured that they did not allow the tradition of memorizing and preserving the original Vedas from generation to generation.

Textual-Preservation-in-Vedas--

Now some fools argue that why are original Vedas are also called by name of Shakhas. The answer is that the name of Shakha is derived from the Rishi who ensured its preservation from generation to generation. Some Rishis chose to promote the variations so as to propagate their meaning among masses and specialized students. Some volunteered to continue preserving the original Vedas so that more Shakhas could be created in future. Why should we not acknowledge these Rishis? Hence Shaakal chose to preserve the Rigveda, Madhyandin chose to preserve Yajurveda, Shaunak chose to preserve Atharveveda and Kauthum chose to protect Samaveda. These refer not only to individuals but entire traditions.

None apart from misled fanatics ever had any disputes over these Shakhas and the originals. Even western indologists and detractors who were otherwise skeptic of Vedas and their meanings had to admit that original Vedas are available to us in same form as the oldest evidence available without any doubt.

Maxmuller announces in Origin of Religion (p 131): The texts of the Veda have been handed down to us with such accuracy that there is hardly a various reading in the proper sense of the word or even an uncertain accent in the whole of the Rig-Veda.

Maxmuller in Rigveda Vol 1, p XXX: As far we are able to judge at present, we can hardly speak of various readings in the Vedic hymns in the usual sense of that word. Various readings to be gathered from a collection of different manuscripts now accessible to us there are NONE.

Macdonell in A History of Sanskrit Literature (p 50): Extraordinary precautions soon began to be taken to guard the canonical text. Thus fixed against the possibility of any change or loss the result has been its preservation with a faithfulness unique in literary history.

Keigi in Rigveda (p 22): Since that time, nearly 3000 years ago, it (the text of the Vedas) has suffered no changes whatsoever, with a care such that the history of other literatures has nothing similar to compare with it.

Abinash Chandra Dass in Rigvedic India (p 5): These hymns, however, were not committed to writing on payrus, palm-leaves or baked clay-bricks, but to human memory carefully cultivated for the purpose and were handed down from generation to generation without the loss of even a single word or syllable.

Should we say more? Except that we don’t know the cure for paranoia.

Allegation 2: Some verses of Rigveda are missing. Nirukta 7.8 talks of a verse offering oblation to Vishnu and Agni in Rigveda but there is no such verse in current Rigveda. So the verse was lost.

Agniveer:

1. Nirukta wasn’t preserved in the way Rigveda was. So Rigveda is much more authoritative, especially after scrutiny by even the skeptics as mentioned above.

2. The Vishnu of Vedas is same as the Agni. Both refer to same Singular Supreme Entity. Only the misled see polytheism in Vedas. So joint oblation to Vishnu and Agni is applicable to any mantra that can be interpreted to imply those characteristics of Supreme that are common in meaning of Agni and Vishnu. This is a research subject for those who have skills to contemplate deeply on mantras. There is nothing conflicting in it. At best one can say that – Since I don’t know anything about Vedas because knowing that would put me in Hell, hence I cannot understand it.

3. Interestingly the very people who are currently raising this childish allegation are the ones who also attempt to prove that Vedas talk of only one Single God. But they use this argument when they want to prove that Vedas and their modern scripture both talk of the same Singular God, but because their scripture is latest, hence that latest version should be followed. Hence everyone should start believing in their religion to escape Hell.

But here, since the purpose is to create doubt, the exactly opposite argument is being propagated. Remember we talked about the monkeys? Now recall the advise of the minister.

Allegation 3: There is corruption in recitation of certain mantras. For example Rigveda 10.29.1 has a word that is pronounced as ‘Va +Yah’ in one Pada Patha and ‘Vayo’ somewhere. Scholars interpret the words differently and come with conflicting meanings. Another example is word ‘Mehanaasti’ which is interpreted as “Ma + Iha + Naasti’ in some Pada Patha.

Agniveer:

Whether we take the word as ‘Va + Yah’ or Vayo, they both are pronounced in exactly the same manner. Same is true for ‘Ma + Iha + Naasti’. However in Vedic mantras, these words come us Vayo and Mehanaasti. Scholars can have disputes over how the word should be interpreted. This is a research topic. Depending on their views, they can have different Pada Paatha or break-up of the words. Perhaps during Yaska’s time, someone broke the word in wrong manner and hence he had to counter it. Similar to the way even we have to counter the most outdated concepts even today despite the availability of thoroughly verified and edited Vedas!

Pada Paatha is NOT original Vedas. It is one way of preserving Vedas. There are 9 more. Refer http://agniveer.com/2697/no-textual-corruption-in-vedas/. If an error comes in Pada Patha, it is corrected by comparing with other methods. And hence today, there is no doubt over what the original Vedic mantras are. (Thanks to efforts of sages like Yaska from time to time.) I recommend looking at editions of Pt Damodar Satvalekar which is accepted widely as the most corrected published version.

Allegation 4: There are different versions of Rigveda available today each having a different number of mantras. Hence Rigveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

So finally they discovered what even Max Muller and Macdonell could not discover. Like the splitting of moon in NASA images and blackholes in universe because their text says that certain starts disappear in daytime! But unfortunately, this one is also a very dated allegation that did not even stand for a few days when it first emerged. The difference in number comes only due to different methods of calculation. If I ask anyone to list those verses of Rigveda which are present in one version but not in another, no one can produce it. At least in last thousands of years of documented history no one could produce it.

This matter has been dealt in great detail in http://agniveer.com/3953/mantras-rigveda/ and final calculations have been provided.

Allegation 5: There are different versions of Yajurveda as well. There is Black and White Yajurveda which have significant differences. Ishopanishad was an Upanishad later inserted in Yajurveda as 40th Chapter.

Agniveer:

1. Black or Krishna Yajurveda is a branch (Shakha) and not original Yajurveda. It contains original mantras modified along with historical and explanatory descriptions to suit research interests of specific kind. Shukla or White Yajurveda refers to those branches of Yajurveda that modify the original mantras if required but do not add additional texts. The Madhyandini Yajurveda of Shukla Branch is the original Yajurveda and rest are its variations.

So in case you do not have access to original Yajurveda, start with a branch. That would be much more easy to approach due to explanations and simplifications. And when you have mastered them, you can have the taste of the original. The keen minds who are less paranoid and more zealous can approach the original directly as well!

2. Ishopanishad is nothing but the 40th Chapter of Yajurveda as it appears in a particular branch of Black Yajurveda with some modifications. Because this is the greatest text on spiritualism and philosophy and mother of all other texts like Geeta, other Upanishads and even Darshans, it has a special place in Vedic literature. Being mother of all Upanishads, it is called Isha Upanishad. Only a paranoid can explain why he or she thinks that Isha Upanishad cannot be part of Yajurveda.

Allegation 6: Swami Dayanand added an additional word “Gamyaat” in Yajurveda 9.20 while explaining the mantra. Hence Yajurveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

1. Did Swami Dayanand add the word in the mantra? No. The word is found only in Hindi translation in some editions. Now Swami Dayanand used to dictate meaning in Sanskrit to his pundits who would then translate it in Hindi as well as transcribe what he said.

But even if he or his pundit added the word in explanation, then you should be thankful to him for attempting to simplify things instead of taking exceptions.

2. Even if Swami Dayanand added the word in the mantra, that does not make Yajurveda corrupted. It only means that Swami Dayanand made an error. When did Vedas or Agniveer or Swami Dayanand claim that humans are fully perfect?

Allegation 7: Arya Samaj translation of Vedas has an additional mantra at the end of Yajurveda Chapter 25. Hence Yajurveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

1. So your anger is towards additional bonus that Arya Samaj translation gives you, if I understand properly. This means that you admit original Vedas to be a subset of existing Vedas with one less mantra. Hence there is no loss of information at least.

2. Now if we review this mantra, is it against rest of the Vedas in its message? If not, then what is the cause of concern. If you get one additional sentence in Einstein’s text on relativity that was written later by an editor but only emphasizes what Einstein says in rest of the paper, how is that a problem?

3. This is an objection only for those who think that if they mug up the book of divine and say a big sorry for all their misdeeds and laziness to Supreme Lord, they would easily get Heaven full of virgins. But for Vedic followers, there are no shortcuts to success. You have to practice what you learn in actions and keep exploring the truth within. And when you have liberated yourself from ignorance significantly, you would well have re-ignited the Vedas within. So one harmless mantra in one edition makes absolutely no difference. The only cause of concern could have been if the verse misled you, which it does not.

4. By the way, the 25th Chapter has only 47 mantras and that is accepted by one and all. Some publishers publish an additional mantra due to relevance of context. Perhaps someone inserted it years ago and then no printer bothered to or rather was not competent enough to scrutinize it. Please send us the name of the publisher and we shall write to him to correct the mistake. Or even you can write so referring to this article.

Allegation 8: Yajurveda 26.26 has a word ‘Ayohate’ which is used as ‘Apohate’ in Arya Samaj version. Hence Yajurveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

1. This is a printing mistake. Real word is Ayohate (अयोहते). Now in Devanagri script, Ya (य) and Pa (प) appear almost similar. Such errors are found in several places in Vedas because the first time they were being printed, they were being typeset from hand-written manuscripts. However Pt Damodar Satvalekar did a great job of scrutinizing all published mantras with manuscripts and manuscripts with various Paatha methods to give to us extremely authentic editions of Rigveda.

2. But thankfully, the meaning does not change because that was based on actual word.

So yes, printed versions may have corruptions. But neither the original Vedas, nor ‘the potential of humans to discover the Vedas from within and compare with those outside’ has been corrupted.

Allegation 9: Yajurveda 39.5 has a word “Vishyandane” which is used as “Vishpandane” in Arya Samaj version. Hence Yajurveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

Refer previous allegation.

Allegation 10: Yajurveda 13.58 has a phrase “Lokam Taa Indram” that is missing in Arya Samaj version. Hence Yajurveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

It does not matter whether this text is there or not. The meaning of the phrase is implied in overall meaning of the mantras continued from Chapter 12 itself up to this last mantra of Chapter 13. So for sake of completion of meaning you can put the phrase, and for sake of brevity you can skip it. A conservative approach would be to keep it. but if focus is to understand meaning alone, it can be skipped. We suggest having the phrase for sake of completeness.

Allegation 11: Samaveda has Kauthum and Jaimini branches having different number of verses as well as songs. Hence Samaveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

We have already mentioned that Kauthum Rishi preserved the original Samaveda. Refer the previous discussion on branches.

Further, Samaveda songs make no sense for the disturbed mind. They represent the melodies that generate from within when one reaches a high level of enlightenment and exalted state. Jaimini branch offers more variety and you can experiment with them to find what melody touches you the most. However keep caution – avoid spicy food, meat, alcohol, anger, frustration, hatred etc, study other Vedas as well and practice meditation. Without foundation of this, you may be simply wasting your time.

Allegation 12: Atharvaveda 20.127.3 is different in different versions. Arya Samaj has word “Rishaye” and Gayatri Pariwar has word “Ishaya”. Hence Atharvaveda is corrupted.

Agniveer:

Again a case of printing mistake due to bad handwriting in Devanagri manuscript or error by typist. The correct word is ‘Ishaya’. Printing mistakes are not attributable to original texts.

Allegation 13: Shatpath Brahman 13.4.3.4-8 states that young men should listen to Atharvaveda and young ladies to Angirasaveda on consecutive days. Before that Rigveda and Yajurveda should be listened. This means that:

- There is no mention of Samaveda and hence Samaveda is not a Veda.

- Atharvaveda and Angirasveda are different. Rishi Angiras was 4th generation from Rishi Atharva.

Agniveer:

I shall not comment on what exactly this reference from Shatpath means. But even if we take it at face value:

1. Samaveda is not mentioned because Samaveda cannot be simply listened like other Vedas. Samaveda is all about emotions and meditation. Further, bulk of mantras in Samaveda are already in Rigveda. So there is no purpose of listening them again. However if the same mantras are meditated upon with emotions and sung, new revelations would come. But this is not in context of the ritual described. You need to separately practice this art.

2. Even if Rishi Angiras was born 4th generation from Rishi Atharva (I shall not comment on authenticity of this history), how does it matter? Names of Rishis depict their deeds and specializations and not the names in their Class X pass certificate. So a specialist in Atharvaveda can name himself Rishi Atharva. Similarly another Rishi can use synonym of Atharva ie Angiras and use as his name. This is similar to we using Agniveer as our name. Now just because we call ourselves Agniveer, it does not mean that we are the author of all the mantras in Vedas that have word ‘Agni’.

3. Refer http://agniveer.com/3937/who-wrote-vedas/ to understand authorship of Vedas as per available evidences and claims.

4. Atharvaveda and Angirasveda refer to same text. They are also called Chhanda in some places. Atharvaveda has the privilege of multiple names because it is an all-rounder. It adopts from Rik, Yajuh and Sama Vedas are brings forth their applied aspects. To there are multiple dimensions to it deserving multiple names.

But if this be the argument for Vedas being corrupted then Quran is perhaps the most corrupted text in the world. Because Quran is referred by a huge number of names in Quran itself. The word Quran was later adopted for the text by fighting followers long after death of the peace-loving founder. The founder never knew that this book would be called Quran. Quran is also referred by names reserved for Jewish and Christian texts in Quran itself! That is why some scholars conclude that original Quran refers to Bible or Old Testament or some unchangeable text which was existing ever prior to Testaments and was much bigger in size. This a matter of scholarly debate and we shall leave it to scholars.

But we believe that such frivolous means should not be adopted to claim corruption in any text. There should be something more substantial, reasonable and rational.

Final countdown

There are various versions of the article floating in cyberspace that allege corruption in Vedas. However all end with one single conclusion which we reproduce below:

“The above analysis proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Vedas have suffered heavy interpolations and changes. Talking strictly, even if one accusation of the above analysis stands, the entire Vedic literature will be unacceptable as a genuine inspired document.”

Agniveer:

1. This exposes the motive of the author(s). They just want to throw 100 arrows blindly in the hope that at least one will hit the bull’s eye.

2. They term their assertions regarding Vedas as ‘accusations‘ that speaks volumes about their terrorism-inspired mindset. Truth-seeking is only a warfare for them. The author inspired by the Panchatantra monkey only wants the crown of the king. This also shows their desperation and insecurity complex arising out of the recent depletion of fanatic dominance over cyberspace and elsewhere as well.

3. Unfortunately none of the arrows came even close to hitting the dart-board. The reason is simple – they were hitting at completely opposite direction. And since earth is perhaps not round as per the scriptures they blindly believe in, there is no chance of the arrows even making a full circle to hit from the back! We hope next time, when they ‘accuse’ someone, they would do a more thorough and unbiased research. But that would demand rejection of company and idol-worship of fanatics.

4. To take this argument to an extreme, let us state something. Even if all the allegations…sorry ‘accusations‘ stand, still that would NO WAY AFFECT the Vedic religion. This is because the very essence of Vedic religion is to not blindly and literally translate any text as recipe for life.

Instead it is all about opening the minds and discovering the Vedas within.

The amount of Vedas we know from available benevolent literature is sufficient for us to make a head-start. And as we progress in practice of accepting truth by rejecting falsehood without bringing ego, laziness, frustration, fear etc in picture, the Law of Karma would automatically ensure that we would get the right tools and texts that we need for further progress.

But until we make ourselves eligible in this manner, the most immaculately preserved Vedas would also be nothing different from tonnes of books in the libraries that no one ever issued.

So instead of raising frivolous paranoia about what we don’t even understand, all we have to do is to promise the following:

‘I promise to accept truth through a continuous process of rejecting falsehood every moment to best of my abilities in the most sincere manner.’

And let Law of Karma manage the rest.

Vedic texts are like Science textbooks for us and not a roadside Mantra-Tantra book that promises to help us getting job, marriage, money, destruction of enemy, mesmerism over lover, invisibility, control of Jinna and ghosts etc by blankly reciting certain mantras on microphone and moving some bones.

Sorry, if you think Vedas are akin to Jhaad Phoonk of Pagla Baba Banarasi, or Ajmer Sharif ka Jaadu, or Shahdara Wale Miyanji ke Totke or something similar, you are at a wrong place. Get these addresses from any Railway Station rather than daring to open the minds to think honestly, if you want easy answers. However your own scripture might be a good replacement for these Babas and Miyans.

For rest of us, please understand what Vedic religion is all about by reviewing http://agniveer.com/series/universal-religion-for-all/ and firmly understand that even if someone proves us that Vedas have vanished in thin air, nothing is going to change. Vedas would still remain a genuine inspired document and Law of Karma would still work!

Don’t worry though! Vedas remain as preserved as they were always.

But yes, be wary of monkeys snatching away your crown! After all you are a king!

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

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Comments

  1. says

    brilliant article !!

    just strengthened my faith on vedas!!

    just i don’t have words!!
    thanks for providing point by point refutation of that allegation!!
    and this article has already come to top of google when searching on textual corruption in vedas! congrats to all agniveer and the protectors of truth!! :)

  2. says

    The fanatic minds will come again here from a copy of the texts from that site and will paste them here.. Monkey will remain monkeys. To come out of monkeys world one needs the analytical skills that differentiates a human from a monkey. Many monkeys came out of the monkeys word and some are counted amongst the noblest persons.

    Wish these fanatic monkeys will come out one day. May God give them the skill to analyse and accept the truth.

  3. Apolloreach says

    Very well written…Given that I do respond to the author of the post that claimed that the Vedas are corrupted (on his website) every now & then, I have a few observations.

    1) That author is not only upset with the way Islam is being analyzed by Agniveer but also by the fact that Zakir Naik has been completely exposed. I have touched upon the names of few other Islamic scholars (less virulent than ZN) in my discussions but the author of the post gets mighty upset about it and retorts that I should convert to Islam and start following that scholar. What an idea Sirji? :-)

    2) Define conditioning…the author in question here personifies what “Abrahamic” conditioning is all about. He is unable to move beyond theisms. It is my personal opinion and I have told that author many times that Vedas are beyond the Abrahamic theisms. Vedas deal with an integrated singular Supreme Being and also deal with the specific attributes of this integrated entity. Those w/ a West Asian mindset can never ever get a handle on this.

    3) The Lebron James effect…this could be a bit esoteric but Lebron is a basketball player that has been spoilt by his coterie. He is called King James while he has failed to prove anything in the big stage when it matters most. Our friendly neighborhood author is the only one, around whom, a set of ZN fans rally around,given, IRF and ZN have not mounted a direct response to Agniveer. So the fan club parks this author on a pedestal to which he nowhere belongs to. The author in many forums claims to be a self appointed analyzer of comparative religion, which, he is absolutely not.

    4) The “I” factor….when I discuss Islam with a Muslim, for starters, I do give the Muslim the benefit of doubt where Quranic expertise is concerned. As the discussion evolves, one can easily know the level of expertise, either way. But the author’s posts,responses and claims border on his belief that Hindus know zilch about their scriptures and that he knows more Vedas than them. And this leads the author into…

  4. Apolloreach says

    The last part of my post was missed out…here we go..

    4) The “I” factor….when I discuss Islam with a Muslim, for starters, I do give the Muslim the benefit of doubt where Quranic expertise is concerned. As the discussion evolves, one can easily know the level of expertise, either way. But the author’s posts,responses and claims border on his belief that Hindus know zilch about their scriptures and that he knows more Vedas than them. And this leads the author into a mindset, where, he refuses acknowledge the fallibility of his viewpoint, when exposed.

    Reverting to this post of Agniveer, like I stated above, a very neat write up.

    • says

      Thanks brother Apolloreach,

      You have made some really relevant points. And we are aware of how you virtually ripped them apart on their sites. That is why we were ignoring this write-up for some time. But now they started a new campaign through emails, scribd, facebook etc. So we thought that it would be safer to shoo away the monkey than run after it once it snatches the crown.

      In your comments you have explored several interesting, true but disappointing traits of these fanatic minds. All this leads us to think that perhaps the two sides are talking on completely different planes altogether. As you rightly pointed out, W/Asian mindset and Eastern knowledge-based philosophies mean completely different things even when we both utter similar words. We seek to know what we don’t know – without any preconditions. They seek to know everything only as per what someone else claimed to know. For us, greatest sin is to limit the mind. For them, greatest sin is to dare to go beyond limits.

      We sometimes wonder how to make our points when the approaches are completely different. What could be a common ground to be able to explain exactly what we intend to mean.

      Anyways, thanks for your truly insightful comments. They give words to our feelings.

      Admin
      PS: Your comment got missed out because we imposed a 2000 word limit for comments in wake of copy-pastes by hit-and-run gang that destroyed the whole discussions. We shall lift it once the pests are away.

  5. says

    @Apolloreach : Brother, I too saw your rebuttals to them. Some of your posts were deleted by them But they are preserved on another site. I read the full discussion, the last three messages are from you, and they dont have any answer for your comments.

    Great work.

  6. says

    great article…..but i didnot understood explanations on 10th allegation…….and also i think there should be articles on governance because now a days war is going on corruption and also i have heard about RTR law which a man Rahul Chimanbhai mehta is promoting and saying this law is same as praja-adheen raja mentioned in ”Satyarth Prakash” and also there in Atharvaveda…..So i request admin to think and make an article on this governance and corruption issues…

    • says

      We also want to write on these topics. But need some respite to create something original. We generally shy from stating the same thing in different words, which is already popular. We often face brickbats for the same but we believe that this is the way for minds to open up. Even if you disagree, you still are forced to think about it and hence stretch your mind. That is the goal of the site.

      As for Allegation 10, ‘Lokam Taa Indram’ is obtained from words of mantras in Chapter 12. Now these words are implied while interpreting verses of Chapter 13. This is called Anuvritti in Panini Grammar. Now in final mantra of Chapter 13, these words exist. But some publications removed the phrase because the meaning was implicit. This is like Gayatri without Om Bhur Buvah Swaha. The strictly correct way would be to have these words in last mantra of Chapter 13. But if you are focusing on knowing broad meaning, its absence does not make a difference. For example, if I say, “God is great because He helps us.” Now if I skip “God is great” and only say “He helps us”, and rest of the chapter already states that “God is great”, will it make a difference?

      Dhanyavad
      Admin

      • says

        but if there is no corruption ,then from start till end there should be neither adding up of mantras nor omitting it,isnt it????……Meaning or interpretation is not concerned here but text is…………
        .
        @The strictly correct way would be to have these words in last mantra of Chapter 13
        ===========
        ok ,sorry….ignored this line earlier …but in my view there should not be any omission of words so that there should be no confusion because meaning or interpretation is not concern here but texts are…i think you should not have written first line ”It does not matter whether this text is there or not.”……..Actually it matters as far as texts are concerned ………..Clearify me if i am wrong..

        • says

          Namaste Krishna

          As soon as text is changed (as done while translating/interpreting/removing/adding words), it is different from the original scripture, simple. Now Vedas after being operated at with omission or adding up of words will never be called as Vedas in first place. Now the only problem remains is that is the text with line “Lokam Taa Indram” is original Vedas or without line? This can easily be checked with any Ved Pathi who is practicing Shukla Yajurved chanting.

          And even if this confusion remains, put it at lowest in your priority list simply because you have whole Vedas to explore other than this Mantra. The line anyway does not give any controversial meaning. So it really does not matter if you include this in YOUR Vedas or not because in both cases you have whole of 20000 other Mantras that are there to be explored in countless ways.

          I personally find it useless to give so much emphasis on corruption in texts. We are anyway going to judge each line/claim in the world rationally and then accept or reject it. So be it with Vedas! And let the brain dead Jihadis fight for Ayats and their preservation. Look at western world. They have gained so much success in exploring materialistic world that is the first step towards understanding Eeshvar and His laws. They dont even know the names of Vedas forget about the corruption in those! But they have explored the Vedas within and are moving ahead. They are ruling the Islamic nations that have plenty of parrots of Quran who claim no corruption in their divine text! So what is the ground reality? It is simply that faith of parrots is bound to become subdued to those who never claim no corruption in external text but always try to remove internal corruption i.e. ignorance by analyzing things rationally and thus accepting truth and rejecting falsehood. This is what Vedas say- Aham anritaat satyam upaimi..

  7. Jayadev says

    thanks agniveerJi for all your articles..i have learned a lot about our religion through ur web site..Thank you very much from the deep of my heart…

  8. KalBhairav says

    @Muhammed Jarir Kanji:

    By exemplary, I mean I should be able to do ALL that the prophet did and be happy. I cannot rape a 9 year old and be happy these days. I will be given the death penalty. Case dismissed.

    • KalBhairav says

      Oops…sorry folks…was trying to deal with a proselytizer on Satyagni and instead posted here…Now that I’m here, Great Article BTW…and great job Apollo :-)

  9. Charvak_pathik says

    Brilliant article, Agniveer Mahashay. Even though I belong to the Charvaka philosophy, I have utmost respect for the Vedas, as they completely respect my choice of life (atheism). The Al-Taqqiya group of companies (CEO Zakir Naik) is finished!! He is history, thanks to Agniveer/Satyagni, Ali Sina, MA Khan and others!!

  10. Apolloreach says

    Thanks Agniveer and friends for your comments & support. We need to keep this momentum going on both reiterating the strong foundations of our Dharma and countering the devious designs of organizations like IRF ( and associated stooges) and SAN (and associated stooges). It is important that the Agni of Vedic Knowledge found here is spread more and more to burn the falsehood of Abrahmic cults.

    • KalBhairav says

      @AR:

      Indeed and I think this has already started to happen and it is gaining even greater force. It would be interesting to know from Agniveer webmaster if the webtraffic to Agniveer has increased over the past few months as this will be a proxy for the momentum that you mention.

      It may be slightly premature but I think we do have mounting evidence on our hands that sites like TOH and IH are beginning to fall by the wayside. TOH doesnt even bother responding to comments nowadays. There are probably more Hindus visiting there than Muslims. Or else the Muslims see the comments but are unable to respond because the posts essentially shut them up. IH is kicking and screaming but they also shut down under the spotlight of some scrutiny.

      Once a Muslim gets decently educated and sees the outside world he may become a terrorist because of the cognitive dissonance in his brain – he has been told since childhood that Islam is the greatest and Jews/Hindus/Buddhists, etc. are Kaffirs. Yet he sees these folks being happy and leading a normal peaceful life in more egalitarian societies and their brain doesnt compute. The other option is that an educated Muslim has no reason to believe in the hateful fairy tales in the Quran. So, he becomes an apostate but because apostasy is punishable by death he just remains silent.

      Also, since the past few days, we have seen a growing number of Hindu patrons visiting Agniveer while the number of Momins has seen a sharp decrease.

      So, I will put my neck out and call it. I think our side has won the battle for the hearts and minds. :-) :-) :-)

      Yet, there is more to be done…but good job to all concerned so far.

      • Apolloreach says

        @ Kal Bhairav: I did not notice the traffic to the websites, be it this or TOH or IH. If what you say is even half true, it is good news.Your observation on two kinds of reactions of Muslims is interesting. You have been asking very probing questions on some of the posts on IH. And the responses you are receiving are for everyone to see. I am very curious how ZN has been strategizing (if at all) his responses to Agniveer. I am sure there are many of his fans that are asking him to push back but given he did not, sites like TOH and IH came up to counter agniveer. That says tons about ZN’s character. ZN’s Abrahamic cousins in the form of SAN have been pursuing him too for his take on JC. I think IRF front office emailers now have a template stating “The Master is busy.” That IRF line has become redundant now.

        • KalBhairav says

          @AR:

          I think we DO have them pinned down on multiple issues:

          (a)Mushafiq couldnt give a list of bad Muslim rulers with reasons.
          (b)Abdul Fatir is currently pinned down on whether Mo had a flat earth in mind or a spherical earth.
          (c)Abd-al Muhsin and Anti Loom are pinned down as to whether had people NOT deviated from the “monotheistic” message delivered to Adam, whether Jesus/Mo would have been sent to earth at all. They refused to answer. If they answer yes – which is the only logical answer, I would then ask them what leads people away from the path of monotheism? If they answer Satan then it would imply Satan is the cause of Jesus/Mo. If they say Free will, then I will ask them to resolve the Omniscience vs Free Will debate. So, Allah is NOT omniscient? If he is, did the deviators from the time of Adam really have free choice?
          (d)Abd-al Mushin and Abdul Fatir are pinned down on the born-Muslim post.
          (e)Mushafiq is pinned down on whether Islamic terrorism finds inspiration from the Vedas.
          (f)On top of this they routinely end up deleting posts from possibly other users here.

          Sux to be them, I would say.

  11. Rashmi says

    Agniveer,

    I find for a normal soul it is difficult to understand vedas. My faith in vedas is solely b’coz of practice of astanga yoga sadhana for more than 9 years.

    For a person who does not think/reflect and practice what is preched in Vedas and granths written by Rishis what will vedas do ” Richah kim karishyasi”.
    Infact practice of astanga yoga with full 8 steps helps in improving intellect, the illusion of nature /spell of materialism also reduces.

    It is false to say you can not become Rishi, My Guru is a living example for me. But you must adhere to all the eight parts of astanga yoga. My Guruji told me that in the quest of knowing truth he met many yogis. Finally he Met his Guru Baba Brahmadas banakhandi nath ji in the the dense jungles of rishikesh. He tested him for months all together, after finding him worthy of sharing this knowledge he started teaching him astang yoga. He asked him what asan you Know, My guru ji said He knows siddhasan, He said what is this you dont know padmasan, he said all your sadhana is waste. He taught him padmaasan. My Guruji said in his entire Life His Guru gave this knowledge to only two persons. He never allowed anybody to come near him, His body was lean n thin but lustrous, due to years of yoga abhyas. Many incidents are worth sharing but better wea ll experience it by self efforts.

    In todays world their are fake Gurus but real yogis (who have achieved samadji) also exist. A stone is diamond or not is only known by jeweller after examination. Infact helps when your desires are true.

    Agniveer i would like to write on astang yoga for general benefit, if you agree

    • Rashmi says

      Akhila Ji, Mukti is not possible witout astanga yoga sadhana and reaching of final 8th stage of samadhi of Astang yoga. At nirbikalpa samadhi only all the deeds of a soul are burned by the fire of yoga agni. Infact all yogis are clear and unanimous. After this stage as per God and vedas soul becomes jivan mukta. He has nothing to face (no karmafal to face). But jivanmukta soul do sometimes come back to Earth to Guide the suffering humanity and tell them real dharma. I quote bhagwaan Nityananda of ganeshpuri, on this”Paramatman is in Jivatman. The real Mukti is to know the subtle in the gross.”
      ” Without the control of breath (Pranayama), a man cannot be a yogi (a perfect man); nor is he a Sanyasi (saint). Without a rudder, it is impossible to steer a boat or ship.”
      ” Mind is the creator of ideas. When the gross ideas are suppressed and the man lives in the subtle, this state is called “Nirvikalpa Samadhi” or Samadhi without ideas. Just as we teach a bird how to talk, keeping it in a cage with its feet bound, we must keep our mind in our Buddhi. A man must learn for himself.”
      ” When SAT unites with CHIT, Ananda (bliss) is the result. This Ananda is Paramananda, Sri Satchitananda. Paramananda is experienced in the head. In the head is in the Brahma-nadi. Brahmananda is Paramananda. Jiva enjoys this bliss when he is one with Paramatman. This bliss is also called Shivananda. Paramananda is experienced in the head. This state is eternal joy. This state is Jivanmukti.”

      Dear akhila do yogaabhayas, do agnihotra two times, search for a Guru and pray to God that He should give you a Guru , becoz it is HE alone who knows who is a rishi and He only knows who truly Knows him.

      God listens in havan, i have experienced this, Meditate and tell Him that you want mukti.

      Infact there is no mukti w/o yoga sadhana.Bhisma pitamaha says in mahabharata who knows shabda brahma knows param brahma (God)

  12. says

    @ AR & KB –

    Now a days I trying yo go to the comment section of IH and TOH, but I cant access them. Dont know its problem at this location or of that site.

    • KalBhairav says

      @Akhila:

      Both sites seem to work most of the time…but sometimes they do play truant. The latest comments are on a frame on the right of the main homepage.

  13. Jayadev says

    Rashmi,

    I want to know about Pranayam means the real pranayam….Can you please share the knowledge that you have ..through the personal mails if subject is not related to this article….

    • Rashmi says

      Certainly , but i feel all the things works when you meet a real yogi, God can not be known w/o a Rishi/a perfect samadhist yogi. My sadhana took definite direction when i met my guru after years of interaction with him. He Gave me and my spouse deeksha. He systamatically taught us real yoga and is guiding us steadily in pranayaam. W/o real prannayaam sadhana you can not succeed. Asanas gives lot bebefits, but prannnayam , naam jaapa, and Dyyaan under the guidance of spiritual acharaya opens slowly many secrets.
      If a computer is password protected to unlock it you should know the password. Similarly the password to unite prann/apaan at mooladhar chakra will a true yogi only can tell. He will tell you what pitfalls you should avoid in sadhana.

      I suggest you read patanjali yoga sutras written by swamiramswarup and yoga a divine vedas philosophy. In patanjali yogasutras he has mentioned the four prannayams which our rishis used to do. You will get lot of insights. You can order these books at http://www.vedmandir.com

  14. aum says

    *Nirukta wasn’t preserved in the way Rigveda was*

    before calling nirukta currupt if you try to read it once rebuttal could be better.

    Nirukta 7.8 says opposite to what orignal author quoted

    it says that agni vishnu do take havi but there is *not* verse/hymn of it in dashtayi.

    Better luck next time :!

    • says

      Namaste aum

      Point here is not whether Nirukt was preserved or not. You leave Nirukta, someone can name another book X that says Vedas underwent textual changes. So Agniveer’s reply applies to any claim of corruption in Vedas based on the fact that any text X says so. In addition, Agniveer’s reply is smarter in a way that it does not even need to see whether X really says this or not.

      BTW I couldn’t understand what made you so enthusiastic while finding loopholes in this article but kept you calm for months together on the original Jihadi article?

    • adolf says

      @aum,
      Guru granth sahib says there are many false books of good, hence quran is false book. Dont you think it is futile to prove validity of vedas based on some other book which is considered as corrupt by the veda believer? better luck next time to prove that vedas are lost……hindusim is not dependent on one book, innumerable are the gitas which portray the same essense as vedas. The missing verses, if any will not prevent you from going to permanent heaven(if you believe in such a thing).

  15. khemchandra9188 says

    Is there only one God in Bible?
    ——————————————————
    Let’s check the Bible if there is only ONE God.

    The Father call His Son God in Hebrew 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    How many Gods now? yes 2.

    Exodo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

    God made Moses god to pharoah. How many gods now? 3!

    Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

    Are there many gods? How does God called His Sons?

    Psalm 82:6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. John 10:34

    Is there only ONE god basde on the verses presented?

    Yes, there are many Gods presented in Bible, and can see polytheism in it.
    Hinduism is the mother of all religion whether the monotheism or polytheism concept, all theological fundamentals are available there

    • Truth Seeker says

      Corruption in Veda Q & A ( IF Veda is corrupt God is corrupt)
      Rohit: Swami ji pranaam I was debating with a Muslim he was trying to prove me that Vedas are corrupt. Please give answer in detail so I can remove his misconception.
      Swami Ramswarup: My blessings to you. Vedas are knowledge which emanate directly from Formless, Almighty God. Now, we have to think that when God is the purest then automatically His knowledge in the shape of four Vedas would be the purest and not corrupt. If we will call it as corrupt then it means it has come out from the corrupt God which even cannot be thought because such ill thinking awards us with several sins.
      http://vedmandir.com/content/questions-answers-november-01-2011

        • says

          @Avinash

          Why cant you refute him now? What you give in return to Agniveer after reading their articles? Are you so intellectually bankrupt that after having this much of information on Vedas you still look for Agniveer to answer everything being written in the name of Vedas? IHI and his Jihadis get funds from Zakir, Saudi and Pakistan to run their organizations in which they can have bunch of fools who keep blabbering about Vedas everytime. Do you support Agniveer even with a single rupee? You can neither support Agniveer financially nor intellectually, what is your use? Why should Agniveer defend you at all?

          Why are you so stupid to not ask him (IHI) who is he to question Vedas? Why are you so clueless to ask him how can he abuse Vedas and Swami Dayanand sitting in India when you or me cant say a word against his Quran and Muhammad in any Islamic country? Why dont you ask him to apologize for his views on death penalty on apostasy, not allowing Non Muslims to preach their religion in ISlamic countries when he can abuse Hindu books and legends sitting in India?

          Am I going to answer any terrorist on his question on Vedas? No. I cant expect any pedophile worshipper understand the Vedic wisdom.

          BTW you look to me an impostor. Clarify if you can..

          • Avinash says

            What nonsense are you writing against me? Do you want me to go there and make a fool of myself by ignoring his article on Vedas? If I ask him who is he to question Vedas, won’t he ask me who am I to question Quran?

            Don’t become mad at me for all the nonsense you write.

            Namaste.

          • says

            @Avinash

            I couldn’t get how does it make you fool if you ignore his article? On contrary it will reflect your wisdom if you remain silent on the issues you have no idea of. If you dont possess even this much of brain then why not keep quite? Why roaming here and there and serve as messenger for Jihadis when you are not getting even the hint what is going on?

            ————-If I ask him who is he to question Vedas, won’t he ask me who am I to question Quran?————

            You again proved that either you are an impostor or someone who should remain quite on serious issues. Are you allowed to open your mouth in Islamic countries to preach Vedas? NO. Are you allowed to open your mouth against Muhammad in Islamic countries? NO. You will be put to death immediately. So why should a Muslim in India be allowed to open mouth against Vedas and great people? Why should he be allowed to preach Quran in India at all?

            If you cant argue even this with him, its futile to teach you further. Even if Agniveer publishes rebuttal to their new article, you will again wait for one from their side and will post here its link like idiots and demand its refutation and it will go on and on..

        • shravak says

          @Avinash

          I am not gone through notorious IHI totally, just overlooked it and what i see is their main objective is to just argue, present false facts to defame Hindus and vedas but not seeking the truth.

          It doesn’t matter for them how many refutations you put forth. Their faith has been shaken and they too know about it but they’re stubborn.

          • adolf says

            @shravak
            IHI censors comments and is a morally corrupt website.
            1. On the article “the-young-man-who-broke-idols-a-message-on-idol-worship”

            a) Question about the morality of Ibrahim in breaking the idols (This is the first terrorist act done by muslims) your comments will be removed and login banned immediately.

            2. On “prophet-muhammads-last-sermon” there is a statement supposed to be made by muhammad “O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. ”

            a) question about the statement that no new faith will come up after him,
            All they answer is “revelations based”. The statement never mentions about revelations or otherwise. The statement never mentions about revelations. They are just doing takiya on this part.
            b) question on many new prophets came up
            Again they answer as “revelations based”.
            Even if we accept it is revelations based prophet, there is ramana maharshi who is a jnani and whatever he uttered must be a revelation. So the statment is wrong.

            I have to keep making a new id every time i questioned and I am fed up with the takiya and censoring of the comments.

    • says

      @Avinash

      Go to his site and post this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOXBkWlFkd0 in which a Sunni scholar is alleging Shias of labeling Quran as corrupt. Shias believe that Sura Ahjab of Quran was even bigger than Sura Baqr. But that was trimmed by Umar and Abu Bakr to suit Arab’s interests and today’s Quran is incomplete :(

      Ask him about the verses that Aisha’s goat ate!

      Ask him where went the Quran of 17000 verses that was originally revealed to Muhammad as claimed by Shias? Today’s Quran contain only around 6000 verses :(

      Ask him where went the verse of Rajm (stoning for adultery/Zina) which was revealed to Muhammad but is not found in today’s Quran?

      Finally ask him to stop believing in a self proclaimed prophet who pulled a 6 year old baby (Aisha) into his bed to satisfy his divine lust, who lied to his wife (Hafsa) to sleep with her beautiful slave (Maria), who could not control his mind that was robbed by the beauty of his own daughter in law (Jainab) that later compelled Allah to intervene and allow this marriage b/w daughter in law and father in law, who raped the women of enemies (Safia, Rehana..) captured during the wars after butchering their father/husband/brothers.

      Once he does this, he will be able to start his journey towards understanding Vedas and their Shakhas.

    • hinduagnostic says

      that guy is a liar half of his article are just nonsense when you go on his website he deletes your comments he is only liar there are few other muslim fantics

  16. Apolloreach says

    Folks,

    Someone posted that IH has re-refuted this post. I have kept aside contextual aspects of the IH post that I was not privy too. But here is what I responded with.

    Mushafiq,

    I am keeping aside the Orkut discussions and Agniveer/Arya Samaj/ Satyrath Prakash specific content of your above post. My comment here is very specific to the samhitas of Vedas & Nirukta. You made a statement above – There are 1131 Veda Samhitas
    which on the basis of the mantra types are divided into 4. Can you clarify what you meant? Your quote from Patanjali is centered around Shakhas and not Samhitas.

    And Rig Veda has ONE Samhita, period. The table you reused from wikipedia (on the original site) does call out samhita names for Rig Veda shakhas,as,like I stated, RV has only one Samhita. But where from did you secure 3 samhita names for RV? And the
    ONE RV samhita has 10 Mandalas, 1028 Suktas and 10,552 mantras. Period. Branches are many but please let me know your sources for listing down 3 differently named samhitas against 3 branches of RV.

    And counting on Yaska’s Nirukt to beat down Vedas is no good. Here is why. Nirukta is a combo of philology and lexicography.

    When Yaska wears a lexicographic hat, the meanings of various words he brings forth & the authority he professes is too darn good. But when he wears the philological hat, the flux between the time of Nirukta and the time of samhitas of RV, make the philology extremely suspect. If I were to pick up an example, when Yaska explains the etymology of dyuh and dyut to explain an episode involving Indra and Agastya, we can see the traceability of the root word. But when a claim is made about a joint oblation with a qualifier like “there is a joint oblation…” a traceability or veracity of that claim cannot be pinned down. This borders on philology and not on etymology & philological methods were hardly evolved at the time of Yaska. This is over and above the reason I gave a
    few months of ago of why Nirukta cannot be used validate RV.
    I will address…

  17. Apolloreach says

    contd..

    I will address a few other later specific questions based on your response.
    P.S: And for those readers that many not have come across philology, it is a branch of study of languages based on history & linguistics.
    —————————
    Mushafiq: This comment is on Sama Veda. Now why do you expect that the mantras across the branches of Sama Vedas ought to be the same?? And yes, w/ the exception of 75 stanzas, all others in SV are borrowed from RV. But here is why / where the
    differences in the counts across branches occur. If you know the framework of Sama Veda, you will realize why the differences in mantras occur, across shakhas. Again, these are only branches but let me deep dive to substantiate my point.
    There are three sections to the Sama Veda samhita – Purvarcika, Mahananamni and Uttararcika. In a given branch of Sama Veda, these sections get appended by Gramagana (songbook of village), Aranyagana (songbook of forest hermits), Uhagana and Uhyagana (the former contains the order of in which samans are rendered for a given ritual in village and forest, respectively). While the core of SV is derived from RV samhitas, based on the family of recension, the sacrifices themselves & the nature of those sacrifices also vary. All these put together, the final count of the number of mantras across SV shakhas vary.
    And yes Sama Veda is a waste of paper and ink, as you said. They need to be enjoyed when recited :-) And when you get a chance, please listen to SV recitations. Momentarily you will think that the hymn is so close to the way Quranic verses are recited in Mosques. I am dead serious.

  18. Apolloreach says

    contd…
    @ Mushafiq: And in general, written down copies of Vedas need to be looked up with a pinch of salt. The great Western indologists & India’s own Brahmimical minds print Vedas with slight twists. I have already gotten in touch with Gayatri parivar about many RV quotes and poor Hindi translations. And over here, let me give you an instance of how some Sanskritized Brits twisted YV on Ashwamedha sacrifice and this was consumed by sexist Wendy Doniger.

    tau ubhau chaturah padah samprasarayava swarga
    lokam prasuvava vrshavaaji raghu rathau dadati

    The rough translation means – we command the intelligent horse to enable us to reach out for heaven,where, the Lord provides us the chariots. In the context of preceding verses, the chariots become blessings.But our friends twisted two words – rathau (charriots) was replaced by retau (semen) and dadati (gives / endows ) by dadhatu
    (insert) and simply twisted the meaning into something sexist.

    So Mushafiq, written sources need to be verified against recessions to be doubly sure. Again you may find this post of mine useless but the truth is printed copies of many Sanskrit/Hindi Vedas do not match for such reasons. So responding to your charge that a few printed versions of AV mantras are different is futile.
    —–

    And on YV, I had posted my responses to the original blog on that site a couple of months ago. Doing a rejig is no use. I have left it at that.

    • says

      Brother Apolloreach

      Agniveer’s and your posts are enlightening as always. But I think we have been giving the Ummi worshippers more weightage than they deserve. I doubt seriously that the believers of the scriptures, whose greater portion is covered by halal and haram conditions for sex slavery, polygamy, anal sex, suckling wife’s milk by Momin husband, fondling the girl at 6, Bismillah before penetration etc, can get even an iota of Vedas in this life at least. How can such a “believer” take out the meaning of “Aditya” in Vedas as a “learned celibate scholar” when concepts of Brahmcharya/celibacy/Sanyam/self control were alien to their masters in 7th century Arabia? They can at best invent a ghost called Mahamad/Muhammad from Puranas and claim there win :(

      • Totagoto says

        Vajra Bro,
        That kashmiri Jehadi is thinking AGNIVEER is afraid of him. He proudly Declares it in his site.

        But Unlikely His demonic allah has sealed the heart of the kafirs.
        Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.(Quran 2.7)

        How can Kafirs will be able to hear the barking of allah and his jehadi bombers?

  19. khemchandra9188 says

    Hinduism A simply Great Religion
    ——————————————————-
    Besides its basic qualities such as open-mindedness, compassion and tolerance; it would be the greatest religion on the basis of its profound mysticism alone. No other faith boasts such a deep and enduring comprehension of the mysteries of existence, or possesses so vast a metaphysical system. The storehouse of religious revelations in Hinduism cannot be reckoned. No one knows of its equal anywhere. It contains the entire system of yoga, meditation, contemplation and Self Realization. Nowhere else is there such insightful revelation of the inner bodies of man, the subtle pranas and the chakras, or psychic centers within the nerve system. Inner states of superconsciousness are explored and mapped fully in Hinduism, from the clear white light to the sights and sounds which flood the awakened inner consciousness of man. In the West it is the mystically awakened soul who is drawn to Hinduism for understanding of inner states of consciousness, discovering after ardent seeking that Hinduism possesses answers which do not exist elsewhere and is capable of guiding awareness into ever-deepening mind strata.

    • says

      Mushfiqs comparison at start itself is illogical
      .
      when agniveer says anything like para and apara it will include whole vedas as hence as per this its 2…but you compared it to vowels of alphabets which doesnot involve whole alphabets to divide like para and apara division which includes whole vedas…So your whole argument dont stand……
      .
      looking to this site it seems you look to vedas more than me but for errors ,as i am not scholar of vedas and just a follower but you dont compare properly…Just refute for sake of refutation as evident for vowels and consonant examples..
      .
      even though i am not scholar of vedas, i could not resist to comment in that website because of this foolish comparison,isnt it????…..i am very inspired by this site..I got in detailed knowledge about vedas here..Please carry on with many many articles

  20. AsHwIn says

    I guess what Brother Vajra wanted to say to Avinash was that there are a lot of people eagerly looking at Agniveer and IH to see who ‘wins’ the battle (I was one such). They just want to see that Vedas are successfully defended by agniveer, breathe a sigh of relief, and move on in life without bothering to contemplate on its meanings. Hordes of musilms are clinging on to mushafiq, and claiming “victory of Allah” in disproving vedas. But of late, Mushafiqs comments have come down from his earlier Insha’allah attitude to one of pure hatred. I suppose he was pretty miffed that agniveer didnt give him due tribute to his research work, lol.
    But the truth is that agniveer is the begining : its not a rebuttal-to-the-rebuttal to this article site. and it is the rest of us who need to follow up on his work. So let this be a chain reaction : let thousands of new agniveer spring up.

    and abt the financial aspect : hw Mr. Vajra do u propose to solve this? For the monthly salary of 20K I earn, I can give 3k per month. Lets say there are 10,000 such people. Will this be enough? I dont think so.

    • KalBhairav says

      @AsHwIn:

      My 2 cents on the issue regarding support to Agniveer…

      As Vajra mentioned support can come in various forms. One obvious factor is financial support. Agniveer/Satyagni are definitely incurring costs in order to run this website. Our contributions, however small, will go some way in helping the admins in this fashion. I hope we dont think this is trivial. I myself have been guilty of this feeling – is my vote going to matter? After all I am 1 in a country of a billion. Whether I vote or not is not going to affect the results of the election.

      Ultimately, education is the best defense of Hinduism. Educated folks are able to look through the nonsense of Abrahamic belief systems (circular logic, final prophet for all of mankind, etc.) An educated person of theistic persuasion usually turns towards Hinduism. Maybe in our own small lives we can support the education of those whom we come in contact with – the children of the maids/gardener, etc. in our homes.

      The other form of support is intellectual support that is visible. By this, I mean that at least on the internet (FB, Orkut, FaithFreedom), we ought to spread our rebuttals on various forums and become more “activist”. On this front, I do think “our side” is doing a great job.

    • shravak says

      Namaste All
      Just a small information required, Is donating to this site comes under any tax exemption like 80G deduction?

      Dhanyavaad

  21. Consummascient says

    Naman Agniveer,
    I am a young Neuroscientist and buffeled and very keen to know my origin. Ved and Sanatan Dharm. Kindly guide me and add me as your friend. For long run.

    Naman.

  22. prakash says

    hii..since there is no caste system in vedas can anyone learn vedas ? what is the procedure to start learning?

    • says

      Namaste Prakash

      Yes anyone who is good at science, maths, and reasoning can learn Vedas. Start improving your analytical skills and do meditate to increase your concentration span. You can read Satyarth Prakash to start with. I am sure it will help you a lot.

      Thanks

      • prakash says

        actually we need to undergo the procedure of upanayanam to start learning right? and we need to wear the yagnyopaveetam the sacred thread..so is it right to start learning vedas without undergoing this ceremony? and who will do this ceremony for non brahmins?

        • KalBhairav says

          @prakash:

          actually we need to undergo the procedure of upanayanam to start learning right? and we need to wear the yagnyopaveetam the sacred thread..so is it right to start learning vedas without undergoing this ceremony? and who will do this ceremony for non brahmins?

          To start learning anything these days all that are needed are a clean mind, concentration and a book/website, etc. and you are off! Ceremonies were there to symbolize a certain lifestyle in ancient days. These symbologies can be adopted by anyone without the explicit ceremony.

          BTW…define a non-Brahmin and a Brahmin for me, if you could.

  23. Islamleaks says

    MAHATMA GANDHI FOOLISHLY TOLD HINDUS TO SUPPORT KHILAFAT MOVEMENT (MUSLIM SEPARATISM) and HINDUS also supported KHILAFAT MOVEMENT without knowing its meaning. Khilafat only means one ummah regardless of nation and that muslims should be loyal to Khilafat and not one’s nation and HINDUS SUPPORTED THIS MOVEMENT FOOLISHLY because foolish gandhi told them to do. KHILAFAT MOVEMENT WAS THE FIRST SEED WHICH LED TO THE PARTITION OF INDIA. See below link for more information.

    http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers48%5Cpaper4756.html

    IT was not the TERRORIST WHICH PARTITIONED THE COUNTRY but the SECULARIST LIKE NEHRU, JINNAH AND MAHATMA GANDHI.

    GOD SAVE INDIA FROM SECULARISM AND SECULARIST.

    • भ्रमित says

      Get up my friend.
      No one is telling you to blindly follow Agniveer. No one said to blindly follow Vedas too. Unfortunately, Quran says to blindly follow it.

      Only follow what is rational and spiritual WITHOUT VIOLENCE. Before making any perception about Agniveer (or anybody) – please read this. http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-peace/. Show this to Sultan too because Agniveer isn’t against Islam but against jokers like Zakir Naik.

      Agniveer has no objection even if they are refuted. They appreciate it as it shows the truth. They only want you to give rational argument without having any judgement biases / religious perceptions. Half the arguments (in comment section at agniveer OR on your mentioned website) come out of emotions. Refuting each other will only promote Hindu Muslim riots. The goal is to follow Peace. Peace without barriers of caste / religions / nationality / judgements etc. THE TRUE PEACE.

      हिन्दु कहे मोहे राम प्यारा – मुस्लिम कहे रहमाना । आपस में दो लड मरे मर्म न कोई जाना ॥ What is the use of such a fight brother? Understand that truth which is originator of Hindus and Muslims. Refuting each other – how will it support peace ? ? ? Refuting Zakir Naik is OK as he has stupid explanation to prove anything. No point in refuting every Muslim.

      • shravak says

        @भ्राता भ्रमित

        Very good posts. Keep writing.

        btw…But you don’t seem to be a confused(भ्रमित) guy. ;-)

        • भ्रमित says

          नमस्कार भ्राता आर्य श्रावक!
          धर्म ने कभी भी संग्राम नही सिखाए – वेदो ने तो कदापि नही । अन्य पुस्तको की बात मैं नही करुंगा । यदि आप बाईबिल की प्रार्थना पढेंगे तो पता चलेगा – वह कह रहे है – मुझे आशीष दो। बाईबिल का भक्त खुद के लिए आशीष माँगता है। ठीक उसी प्रकार क़ुरान का मोमिन अल्लाह ताला से खुद के खानदान के लिए प्रार्थना करता है। वैदिक वाक्य न स्वयं के लिए है न ही अपने परिवार / देश के लिए भी। वह सबके लिए है।
          प्राचीन भारत में ऐसी प्रार्थनाए होती थी – ॐ सर्वे भवंतु सुखिन: सर्वे संतु निरामया । सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यंतु मा कश्चिद्दु:खभागभवेत् ॥ (अब उपरोक्त श्लोक वेदो में है अथवा अन्यत्र – यह मै नही जानता – परंतु जहा भी है अध्यात्मिक आधार पर आवश्यक है क्योकि अध्यात्म में प्रतिस्पर्धा के लिए स्थान नही। ईश्वरभक्ति कोई व्यापार नही है जो केवल स्वयं का सोचा जाए।)

          Commenting on a website where Hindus, Muslims and Christians interact, one needs to know at least 3 books – Vedas, Quran and Bible so that he can give some valid points. But, after reading Bible and Quran – who won’t be confused? You can check it yourself – Christians say – Mohammed not a prophet – Muslim say – Jesus not son of GOD. They both try to convert us – why not convert each other first??? I am confused as to what Abraham and his faith actually wanted ??? May GOD clear out this confusion. Hope you get my point…
          Thanks

          • Slave of Islam says

            @भ्रमित/Sharavak/KB/Vajra/T.S. /Agniveer/Atman
            दुनिया मे जैसे चमत्कार पैगम्बर मोहमद जी ने किये ऐसे अदभूत चमत्कार किसी और पैगम्बर नहीं किये थे ! और केवल मोहमद ही कलयुगी जीवो के लिए मान्य है जैसा की अल्लाह का आदेश है और हमें अल्लाह का कलमा जो की अल्लाह ने स्वयं कुरान के माध्यम से दिया है , हमें उसे ही पढना चाहिए “ला इल्लाह इल अल्लाह मोहमद रसूल उअल्ला “. और जो भी व्यक्ति इस्लाम स्वीकार नहीं करता उसे अल्लाह के आदेश के अनुसार नास्तिक माना जाना चाहिए ! पैगम्बर मोहमद ही हमारे आदर्श होने चाहिए! जब तक पुरे संसार में इस्लाम नहीं फैल जायेगा तब शांति की स्थापना नहीं हो सकती है! इसलिए आप भी जाकिर भाई और मुस्फिक सुल्तान जी का भारत को दारुल इस्लाम बनाने में साथ दे! और साउदी अरब हमारे मुस्लिम भाइयो के लिए मार्गदर्शन का काम कर रहा है हमें उनका शुक्र गुजर होना चाहिए! वे भाग्यवान ही होते है जीने मक्का जाने का अवसर मिलता है! आप इस मोके को क्यों खोना चाहते है ?

          • भ्रमित says

            मैं समझ नही पा रहा हु कि आप चमत्कार को क्यो किसी की महानता मानते है ? चमत्कार सत्य हो भी सकते है नही भी। एक जादुगर भी खेल दिखाता है और तथाकथित चमत्कार करता है। कितने ही ऐसे जादुगर मौत से खेल जाते है पर फिर भी जिवीत होते है तो क्या उन्हे इसीलिए महान माने? यह तो हाथ की सफाई है – वो तो आपको भी पता होगा। चलिए मान लेते है कि मोहम्मद साहब ने कई चमत्कार किए। पर यह भी उतना ही सत्य है – संत ज्ञानेश्वर ने अपनी योगशक्ति के आधार पर भैस के मुख से वेद बोलवा दिए। भैंस कभी मनुष्य समान बोले – यह कौन स्वीकारेगा? लेकिन जब ज्ञानेश्वर ने किया तब किसका सामर्थ्य था कि उनपर शंका करे? ठीक उसी प्रकार स्वामी नारायण सूर्याजीपंत थोसर ने मरे हुए पक्षी को जिवित करके प्रकृति का नियम बदल दिया। उन्हे तबसे स्वामी समर्थ रामदास कहते है। चाहिए तो आज भी किसी मराठा को पूछ लिजिए। ऐसे कई चमत्कार भारत में हुए। पर कभी भारतीय को कहते नही सुना कि यह चमत्कारी देश है।

            और हाँ ! क़ुरान में कलयुग शब्द कहा आता है? यह तो आप हिन्दु मान्यताओ से उधार ले रहे है। मेरे मित्र मैं आपको अवश्य बताना चाहुंगा कि युग तो पुनरावृत्ति सिद्धांत पर चलते है। चार युग है जो कि एक के बाद एक पुन: आऐंगे। यदि हम अपने मन को सुधारेंगे तो अवश्य ही कलयुग सत्ययुग में बदलेगा।

            निस्सन्देह शांती में न विश्वास करने वाला मूर्ख है। मैं शांती को स्वीकारता हु। लेकिन उसके लिए धर्म क्यो बदले? मक्का अर्थात शांती का स्थल। यह परिभाषा कम से कम 100 मुसलमानो ने दी है। महर्षि पातंजलि ने कहा है – योगश्चित्तवृत्ति निरोध:। अर्थात चित्त की वृत्तियो को शांत करना योग है – योग से मन के विचारो को शांत किया जाता है। योग द्वारा शांत तथा शुद्ध किया हुआ मन मक्का ही है। इस मक्के में सबको जाना चाहिए। इस्लाम शांती का धर्म अर्थात जिसका मन शुद्ध / शांत नही वह इस्लाम का नही हो सकता – अत: वह नास्तिक माना जाए। आओ विश्वव्यापी मनुष्यो, इस सच्चे इस्लाम को स्वीकारे। मन को शांत तथा शुद्ध करे – यही आधुनिक समय की माँग है – आखिर क़यामत का दिन टालना है। जयतु भारतं॥

          • Vinay Arya says

            Dear Slaveji
            First you should unslave yourself.
            My words”kaliyug mein dayanand,shraddhanand aur 5000 varsh purva ke rishiyo jaisa vidwan koi bhi nahi ho sakata hai.kyonki unhone apani jee jaaan desh dharm ki raksha ke liye lagai.are paigambar to apani penis par niyantrana bhii nahi rakha pata tha.to usake dharm mein shanti kaise ho sakati hai.jo bhi shanti ho sakati hai vaha sirf aur sirf vedic dharm ki pratishthpana se hi ho sakati hai.aj desh v duniy me jitane bhi gande hai ve saba kuran aur muhmmad ki hi den hai.atah hame yadi vishwa me shanti chahiye to muulao ko satwe asama par chod ke vaidik riti se arya bana jaana chahiye.yadi hama arya nahi bane to vishwa kabhi bhii sukhi nahi raha sakata hai.jitne bhi dharm waaale unase mera anurodh hai ki kuran bible adi pustake padhane me apana samay na gawaayen kyoki aap jaanate hai unase bura aur kuch bhii nahii.aaj hi kharidiye arya samaj ki pustake aur paiye asali tattwa darshan”

            We can also write like you Slave.We do not have any pride on ourselves but in order to give inspiratin for reading true books i have said so.

          • Slave of Islam= Slim Shaikh(Delhi, Near Jama Masjid) says

            @Vinay Arya
            Muslim are proud to be Slave of Islam & Allah & Mohamad. Muslim should not change their names. ARbi names are best. WE proudly claim Mohamad was last prophet. He came on this earth just to teach us. WE proudly claim Arbi is the language of God & Kaba is house of God. We are proud to be descendent of Arabs. Only good people accept Islam. Fool never accept Islam. You are all fool. & It is duty of true Muslim kick them out from the country who does not accept true religion e.i. Islam. Only Hinduism is the source of all problems in India. If all Indian people will accept Islam problems of terrorism, bomb blast, poverty can be eradicated permanently.
            & What your views on this
            http://agniveer.com/2708/vedic-god/#comment-61166

          • Bagyaraj says

            @ Slave of Islam,
            Your comment – “Hinduism is the source of all problems in India. If all Indian people will accept Islam problems of terrorism, bomb blast, poverty can be eradicated permanently.”
            Dear friend in almost all the 68 Muslim countries no other religion is allowed, still the Muslim terrorists kill Muslims in these countries in the name of religion . Muslims fight each other in the name of shia, sunni, ahamadeeya, mujaahideen, and so on, even though you have only one Allah, One khoran, One Mecca, One prophet……. First try to understand the problem in Islamic countries where Quran is following blindly and then comment.India is a great nation.Learn the heritage of India from the proper sources.
            If India had war with Saudi Arabia will you people support Saudi Arabia or your mother land?
            If you don’t praise the heritage of India it is ok but at least don’t disrespect the Indian Heritage and its great books.Many Foreign Invaders,Fake Scholars and politicians had split us as Hindus,Muslims and Christians.Now it is time to join our self by learning the heritage of our great nation.
            Religion should be for a peaceful and happy life and thus to make this world like heaven. Religion is not to develop a hatred and crooked mind set. Ignorance is not a mistake but try to remove that and elevate yourself each and every minute by gaining the knowledge.

  24. Prithvi says

    slave of islam
    apko kisi comedy circus me varti hona chaiye
    islam ne somalia,sudan,iraq,pakistan,afghanistan aur kitne muslim deshon mein shanti chal rahi hai,aur islam ne kahin milestone cross kar chuka hain 18000 killings cross kar chuka hai,
    duniya mein ex-muslims badh rahe hain, ali sina ne islam ki pol khul di hain, aur aap jakey khud saudi barbaria mein settle ho jaye.

  25. raj.hyd says

    kalma kuran ki kaun si ayat me hai ? muhammad ji se jyada chamatkar to isa ji ne kiye jo sat machli ko sat tokri me badal diya tha murdo ko bhi jivit kar diya tha tab unko kyo n mana jaye ?muhammad ji ka chamatkar to yah bhi tha ki 50 sal ki umr me 6-7 varshiy paoti saman aysha se nikah kiyatha kitni” dushit ” mansikta banayi thi! jisko aj tak koi any muslim apnane se bhi darta hai ! muhammad ji ne apne god liye huye dattak putr zaid ki patni se bhi bagair nikah ke sex kiya jab zainab ne thoda etraj kiya to usse yahi kaha ki hamara tumhara nikah to allah minya ne kar diya ab batlaiye jisne nikah kabul bhi nahi kiya jo etraz kar rahi hai fir kaise nikah hua ?muhammad ji ne dasiyo se [laundi] se bhi bagair nikah ke anek bar sex kiya ,aur unse bachha bhi paida kiye , yah alag bat hai ki apna paida kiya hua bachha bhi allah ke itne najdik hokar bhi usko bacha nahi paye ! muhammad ji ki koi santan jivit nahi bachi keval fatima ji ke siva aur vah bhi muhammad ji ke marne ke kuch mah bad hi “bhari javani “me khuda ji ko pyari ho gayi thi ! yani sara khandan samapt ! dekha apne muhammad ji ka chamatkar ?kaun sa muslim apna sara khandan samapt karvana chahega ? manushy ka sabse bada dukh apne samne apni santan ka mar jana hota hai vah bhi muhammad ji ko bhogna pada batlaiye kaun se “kukarmo” ki saja unko mili ? muhammad ji se bhi jyada umr to allah ne bahut se kafiro v sharab pine vale muslimo v any bahut se muslimo ko di hai dekha apne muhammad ji ka chamatkar? jo allah ke itne nikat rahate hai unki umr bahut kam aur unke chele va kafir adi ki umr jyada yah chamatkar kaise hua ?jara sochiye !

  26. GOD IS GREAT says

    Islamic Slave!

    Congratulations! You are awarded as SUPER ULTRA MEGA ULTIMATE JOKER of the millennium. Now, coming to the fact. Your biggest joke is targetting India. The biggest threat to Islam is a Christian NOT HINDU. Why not? Finally Jesus was crucified for faults of others while Mohammed was poisoned by his own wife. Whenever a Muslim is fed up of Islam, he converts to CHRISTIANITY not hindu. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPjVCwec6oQ

    “The Koran is one of the most stubborn enemies of Civilisation, Liberty, and the Truth which the world has yet known.”
    - William Muir

    “The Koran claims for itself that it is “mubeen,” or clear. But if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesnt make sense. Many Muslims and Orientalists will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible.”
    -Gerd-R. Puin

    Islam is Christianity adapted to Arab mentality, has been able to assimilate of the Christian doctrines. Lacking the gift of imagination, the Bedouin copies, and in copying he distorts the original. In the same way Musulman science is nothing but Greek science interpreted by the Arab brain; and again, Musulman architecture is merely a distorted imitation of the Byzantine style.”
    - Andre Servour

    • GOD IS GREAT says

      “The Koran calls for belief and consequent obedience. It is, surely, calculated to inspire fear, indeed abject terror, rather than love”
      - Anthony Flew

      “The early Arabic sources quite plainly and frankly describe the expeditions as military expeditions, and it would never have occurred to anyone at that day to interpret them as anything else…. ”
      - Arthur Jeffery

      “Consider the Koran, for example; this wretched book was sufficient to start a world-religion, to satisfy the metaphysical need of countless millions for twelve hundred years, to become the basis of their morality and of a remarkable contempt for death, and also to inspire them to bloody wars and the most extensive conquests. In this book we find the saddest and poorest form of theism. Much may be lost in translation, but I have not been able to discover in it one single idea of value”
      - Arthur Schopenhauer

      “Islam is very different, being ferociously intolerant. What I may call Manifold Monotheism becomes in the minds of very simple folk an absurdly polytheistic idolatry, just as European peasants not only worship Saints and the Virgin as Gods, but will fight fanatically for their faith in the ugly little black doll who is the Virgin of their own Church against the black doll of the next village. When the Arabs had run this sort of idolatry to such extremes they did this without black dolls and worshipped any stone that looked funny, Mahomet rose up at the risk of his life and insulted the stones shockingly, declaring that there is only one God, Allah, the glorious, the great… And there was to be no nonsense about toleration. You accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell”
      - George Bernard Shaw

      • GOD IS GREAT says

        “Muhammad declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God”
        - John Qunicy Adams

        “That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters.”
        - Mark Twain

        “I have experienced myself that physical and psychological violence is seen as normal in Muslim families. Unfortunately violence belongs to the culture in Islam.”
        - Sibel Kekilli

        “But that a camel-merchant [Muhammad] should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.”
        - Francois Voltaire

        • GOD IS GREAT says

          Before trying to attack on Indian faith – Prove that all above mentioned are wrong. Because Hinduism / India was praised by them all.

          Christians claim that Quran is reproduced from Bible. It is not a book to be studied at all. They are the biggest threat to Islam. They have proved that Slavery (which you is highly proud of) is responsible of all the biggest blunders started by your SO CALLED ROLE MODEL Moha (idiot) mmed. I would again repeat that Jesus accepted Cross for welfare of others while Mohammed was poisoned by Aisha. You Muslims are idiots because you call him great who was poisoned. The guy not liked by his own wife cannot be liked by others. Allah’s own prophet – why did not Allah saved him? Because he made world against Allah. Allah thought – Mohammed should be killed. Come to Christian world to realize that Mohammed deserved death punsihment the same day he was born. Bible is 100000 times better than Quran. (It does not match upto Vedas though…) but still miracles of Christianity are experienced by Muslims too. MUST WATCH —
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d3F7sNGrts

          Debate with a Christian first – talk to Hindu nation later.

  27. Vinay Arya says

    WHat is the use of a debate?

    Ans.The use of a debate is to know what is the truth and what is the untruth.

    Is debate a way to criticise?

    Ans.No.Debate is ot away to criticise.But it is a way to reach to the truth.A debate should be devoid of hateful words.

    WHatever may be our eligion we should be ready to accept the truth and decline the false.I want to ask a question to all of you.The question is a s follows:

    Do you all want to accept the truth and deline the false?

    If you want,then please accept the truth of any kind.Be it bitter or charaka or tasty or sour or apple like sweet or mango like sweet or biiter like certain drugs etc we should always accept he truth and decline the false.Every Muslim,Cristian,Hindu,Jew,Sikh,Pauranic and Aryas should act strictly according to this rule.

  28. KalBhairav says

    @All:

    http://sites.google.com/site/mousawi/EarlyDebatesontheIntegrityoftheQuran.pdf

    I have just merely glanced at this article. But it seems to be a pro-Shia article on Quranic corruption. It details about Uthman burning copies of the Quran, accepting a verse with just one witness agreeing when Abu Bakr had established that two witnesses need to agree, Umar unable to find a verse he thought should be in the Quran, Allah himself saying his words will be abrogated, a goat eating a couple of chapters from under Aisha’s pillow after Mohammed’s death, etc.

    It seems the Shiites and the Sunnis themselves hold different account of the Quran.

  29. says

    Agniveer,
    A great article. I think the word ‘Ashwa Medha Yagna’ is a typical example of how the Sanskrit texts can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. It literally translates to Horse Sacrifice Ritual where on the contrary, the Vedas talk about non-violence and vegetarianism. Can you shed more light on this? I read that Ashwa Medha Yagna simply means Ashwa(World) Medha(Welfare) Yagna(Ritual) OR a ritual done for the welfare of the world?

    Regards,
    Admin – GnanaBoomi

  30. says

    Typo – I think the word ‘Ashwa Medha Yagna’ is a typical example of how the Sanskrit texts can be misinterpreted and misunderstood.

    Corrected – I think the word ‘Ashwa Medha Yagna’ is a typical example of how the Sanskrit texts ARE misinterpreted and misunderstood.

    • Aditya says

      I have a doubt.If Vedas say that you should not kill animals,why does it tells to kill a horse in Ashvameda Yajna?Isn’t Vedas supposed to be peaceful.And will the sacrificer be punished for his karma?Please reply

  31. Vadiyala Ranjith Kumar says

    Allegation 8, Answer 2, Para 2: It is mentioned “HAS BEEN CORREPTED” and I guess it should be “HAS NOT/NEVER BEEN CORRUPTED”. Please correct it.

  32. Vadiyala Ranjith Kumar says

    Yes you are right. I dont know I missed it. May be the content disturbed me lot more than what I thought it is. I mean the conspiracies of the west. Good work Sir. Keep it up. Your site is very helpful in countering the aurguments of those who are busy in blaming Hinduism for every evil.

  33. dogra says

    Again Great Stuff Agniveer.
    We humbel foot soldiers have more ammunition to fire at the anti hindu brigade and inform Hindu faith moreso!!

  34. Jay says

    You need to pick one thread to post the question and stop posting the same thing everywhere. Truth Seeker already provided you a link on Agniveer that answers this question. Go back to that thread and read that link.

  35. Abhishek says

    I have read that vedas were volumes of books and what we have now is merely a very very little part of it.
    Is it true?

    • Narayan says

      Abhishek ji, Namaste!

      With my limited knowledge on vedas, i can say, yajurved says, ‘Na Tasya Pratima Asti’, meaning there is not idol representation of HIM. Does this answer you?

      • Krantisambhav says

        Priya Narayan Ji .. Namo namah. 1) Yah nishedhaagya nahin hai. 2) Pratima ka arth samroop ya sadrish hona chaahiye (amarkosh dvaara). Ise Parallel kaha jaaye to vah shreshthar anuvaad hoga. ThoRa aur margdarshan karne ki kripa karein.

        Is discussion ke liye koi upyukt sthaan ho to vah bataayein. Yah myth busting discussion nahin hai.

  36. Abhishek Bhardwaj says

    TEXT 42-43

    yam imam puspitam vacam
    pravadanty avipascitah
    veda-vada-ratah partha
    nanyad astiti vadinah

    kamatmanah svarga-para
    janma-karma-phala-pradam
    kriya-visesa-bahulam
    bhogaisvarya-gatim prati

    SYNONYMS

    yam imam–all these; puspitam–flowery; vacam–words; pravadanti–say; avipascitah–men with a poor fund of knowledge; veda-vada-ratah–supposed followers of the Vedas; partha–O son of Prtha; na–never; anyat–anything else; asti–there is; iti–thus; vadinah–advocates; kama-atmanah–desirous of sense gratification; svarga-parah–aiming to achieve heavenly planets; janma-karma-phala-pradam–resulting in fruitive actions, good birth, etc.; kriya-visesa–pompous ceremonies; bahulam–various; bhoga–sense enjoyment; aisvarya–opulence; gatim–progress; prati–towards.
    TRANSLATION

    Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

    PURPORT

    People in general are not very intelligent, and due to their ignorance they are most attached to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kanda portions of the Vedas. They do not want anything more than sense gratificatory proposals for enjoying life in heaven, where wine and women are available and material opulence is very common. In the Vedas many sacrifices are recommended for elevation to the heavenly planets, especially the jyotistoma sacrifices. In fact, it is stated that anyone desiring elevation to heavenly planets must perform these sacrifices, and men with a poor fund of knowledge think that this is the whole purpose of Vedic wisdom. It is very difficult for such inexperienced persons to be situated in the determined action of Krsna consciousness. As fools are attached to the flowers of poisonous trees without knowing the results of such—continued

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