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GiveAahuti

UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

PayPal
[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

HomeMyth Busters

I Worship Idols

Agniveer
By Agniveer
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

This entry is part [part not set] of 2 in the series Idol Worship

Idol Worship

I will burn in Hell forever. I will be punished forever. I am the worst creature on planet. Even if I die, no one must wish that God have mercy on me.

No, I did not kill any child. I did not rape anyone. I did not bomb, shoot, loot or cheat anybody. In fact I always followed the law. I never committed a crime of hate, passion or greed. I took care that no one is harmed by me. I paid my taxes. I did my job honestly. Sometimes in name of God, sometimes in name of my ancestors, I made charity to poor and orphans. When Taliban shot 133 children in Pakistan, I mourned as if I lost my own family.

My deadly crime

But all this does not make me a nice person. My crime is far worse than anything else you can . That is why, God will still forgive a rapist or murderer but will never forgive me.

Do you know what my heinous crime is? It is IDOL WORSHIP.

My crime is that I see God in idols. My crime is that I go to temples. My crime is that I worship Rama, Krishna, Hanuman, Shiva, Durga, Lakshmi. My crime is that I sing Bhajans.

No I am not joking. In eyes of a very dominant chunk of world population, my crime is the worst crime of humanity. They believe that I am the most disgusting creature on earth.

Hate in name of religion

I am called a Kafir which is an abuse that means ‘a disgusting person who commits most wicked crime’.

They say that their Holy Book tells that idols-worshipper is worst of creatures.

Now I don’t care what their Holy Book actually says. I don’t even know the language of their Holy Book. I assume that any religion teaches only peace and tolerance. And hence their religion must also be no exception.

But what worries me is that the entire community leadership is unanimous on this hatred. They may differ on how to deal with a wretched person like me on earth. But the moment I die, all agree that I must not be called “Marhoom” – one who gets mercy of God.

They will not participate in my festivals. They will not pray for me when I die. They will always consider me most disgusting.

Come what may happen, whatever be my good deeds, no one will say that I can also be blessed with Paradise by God. Even if I die saving life of an idol-hater, even if I selflessly dedicate my life to humanity, I will still burn in fire of Hell.

Terror continues

And that is why since beginning of Caliphate in Arab, there have been attacks on my country by invaders. In name of spreading religion, they plundered me without provocation. Sometimes in form of Muhammad Bin Qasim, sometimes as Ghori, Ghazni, Akbar, Aurangzeb, Babur, partition of India – they shamelessly invaded my home, killed my family, raped women and kidnapped many more to be sold as slaves in Arab.

And this continues till today in form of not just ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban but through hatred in hearts of millions of Muslims of world who are brainwashed by their leaders.

Translations breed terror

Read any available translation of Quran – idol-worshippers are depicted as worse than worst criminals and believers are ordered to hate them. I have read all major translations in English, Urdu and Hindi and that explains to large extent the emergence of Islamic terrorism. One liberal translation of Quran that did not interpret hatred for idol-worshippers was criticized as anti-islamic by all major religious leaders and hence flopped.

Thus, what we see is that any Muslim who takes existing translations of Quran seriously becomes a hater of Hindus. And this breeds terrorism.

Now I fail to understand, why should my personal faith be a reason to love or hate me! Neither me nor any Muslim of the world has ever seen God himself. Religion is based on assumptions which can be verified by none other than their founders. Is it, hence not perversion, to hate someone on basis of blind assumptions?

Who is not idol-worshipper?

I don’t want to either defend idol worship or condemn their critics. But it is an undeniable truth that irrespective of whatever label you give, everyone is worshipping idols.

– Muslims putting decorated sheets on graves, celebrating birthday of Prophet and promoting photo of Mecca is idol-worship.

– Majority of non-Arabic Muslims have no understanding of Arabic, but they still keep Arabic names, have Arabic slogans to remember God, and even put gothic pictures of their religious slogans. This is idol-worship.

– They try to mimic even clothing and grooming habits of Prophet despite knowing that he lived in a completely different era. The typical beard style without mustache that Muslims keep is because they believe this is how Prophet used to keep himself. If idol worship is a sin, Muslims are greatest idol worshippers.

Hindus don’t worship idols

As for Hindus are concerned, they do not worship idols. They worship God through idols. Idol is just a  medium for them. That is why after completion of festive period, they throw away the same idols without any emotional attachment. Only those complete devoid of intellect would attempt to hate Hindus as idol-worshippers.

Why hate for idol-worship?

But the real point is even deeper. Even if a Hindu, or a Muslim, or any other person worships idols, who is anybody to hate him for that? You may differ, but why hate? And why encourage others to hate? Only a cult of completely mentally bankrupt people would choose this path.

Why idol-worship is sin?

How can anyone in world prove that idol-worship is sin? What is wrong with idol-worship? If I worship idols, if I keep making new and new idols and worship them in new and new ways, what is anybody’s problem? Does it cause loose motion in someone? Does it kill someone? Does it rob anyone’s property? Does it rape someone?

Don’t give me this crap that idol-worship is insult of God because God is only One.

First, if God has real problem with my idol-worship, he would come directly and deal with me directly. Its between me and Him. Is he on sick-leave to delegate that to an incompetent person like you?

Second, how do you know God is One or Many or Here or beyond Seven Skies? Did you meet Him? Can you give some evidence? If not, then what right you have to enforce your unverifiable notions on me? You are free to follow whatever you feel like. But how dare you insult me for my benign personal beliefs?

Third, Sensible people respect sentiments and do not hate form of expression. What more, true Muslims like APJ Abdul Kalam openly claim that they read Gita, go to temples for spiritual awakening, sing Bhajans and love Ram-Krishna. Real Islam must be what the most intelligent practice and believe in, and not the hatred that a bunch of dogmatic idiots spit out.

Root of all terrorism

Root of all terrorism is not Islam or Christianity or Hinduism or Idol-Worship. Root of all terrorism is the lunatic tendency to impose one’s personal notions on others by force or deceit.

I will not comment on original texts of any religion. Because I neither know Hebrew of Christians or Quranic Arabic of Islam. But it is a fact that available translations of texts of all major religions have a lot of stuff that is superstitious and inhuman.

But intelligent societies don’t take these translations by humans so literally. They use their own brains and encourage free choice of personal belief. These are called civilized societies.

The savage societies take these translations literally and force their ideas on others through threat. They continue to remain dumb because use of brain is considered a crime.

Warning to all haters of idol-worshippers

We have had enough of nonsense since a millennium.  We continued to blame our misfortune – the rapes and killings and hatred – on miscellaneous petty factors. We continued to hope that with time and experience, you would mature. We ignored your hatred in name of religion.

But this fire of madness continues to grow. Each day a new news comes of killing, shooting, raping, beheading, bomb blast, siege, carnage and threat. It must be matched with fire. If Fire of Barbarism emerges, Agniveer (Fire of Courage) will also rise to destroy the barbarism.

We warn all haters of idol-worshippers to mend their ways. Follow whatever path you may choose. We will respect your right to choose your path. You have full rights to differ from us and even express your difference openly.

But stop this business of hatred. Stop killing, raping, abusing idol-worship and idol-worshippers.

We will not tolerate anymore.

It doesn’t matter if I am a Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Atheist. But if you spit out even slightest hatred against idol-worship, consider me the greatest idol-worshipper who would fight your fire with such a fire that would make you extinct.

Learn to give respect and get respect. Dare you discriminate against me or anyone else on basis of personal faith. In our dictionary, such haters are called demons. And we, the progeny of brave idol-worshippers like Shivaji and Maharana Pratap know how to deal with demons. 

Agniveer is greatest champion of idol-worship till the mindset that says “Idols-worshippers are worst of creatures” is made extinct.

Jai Shri Ram

(Victory of Lord Rama who destroyed the demon Ravan)


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Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

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307 COMMENTS

  1. The place I live there is no “exploitation” by anyone in the name of idols or temples. People however do donate money for temples. I see nothing wrong in that. If it gives them happiness let it. Temples are something which gives people happy, gives them hope….let it !

    A bodyless god may appear scientific to preach…….but will not give people any happiness. People need something tangible to connect with.

    I know u won’t agree….just one question though

    “would u consider Ved…

    • Here I have to disagree–people donate money to temples for a different reason–they commit sins and then they try to bribe God–people go to Ganges to get rid of sins. Rishi says that you have to suffer if you do something wrong–Karma theory. If I drive on road and do not follow traffic rules then there is a good possibility that I will die–this is the definition of SIN. People do feel peaceful–Pundits convinces them that they could be saved through donations.

    • Now this Raju ( NRI) donates 13 Cr for 34 kg sahastra nam mala to Triputi–what kind of religion is this. He could have built a hospital or an educational institute with that much money. Do you see any logic here? Once I went to Kedarnath temple with a hiking group. I do not go to temple but I was shocked–there was a small queue for people making big donations & a longer queue for poor people–How can god be so unfair? People convert because of suffocation.

    • I refuse to criticize islam because my home is very very dirty–how can I criticize Islam? I have seen Nirmal Baba several times in TV–Someone with even below average IQ would not follow him–Most of his followers are Hindus–There is so much ignorance in the society that they are ready to even accept someone like Nirmal Baba. Switch On Astha–you will see ads of Lal Kitab, Rudrax Mala, Hanuman Locket. What is this? Our country will become strong only if we can remove darkness from our society.

  2. someone who would match swami Dayanand Saraswati’s” knowledge”……if yes why do u reject Bhagavad Gita?

    I for my part still think idol worship is not against Vedas….and that is why I don’t accept swami DS’s words to be the one and only aspect of truth

    Swami DS was talking about the nirakar apsect of Ishwar simple !!!!

    • Please read Chapter 7 & 11 of Satyarath Prakash.–it is written in Q&A form–you can read either Hindi or English Version of the book. Book has answers to all questions that you are asking me. The book is available at Agniveer website. You will get your answer in these two chapters.

    • First Vedas are the foundations of Vedic Dharam–fundamentals. You do not need to read any other book. This was the main argument of Rishi. Also, different people have interpreted Gita differently. Hare Krishna people interpret the meaning in different manner, Swami Chinmayanand has done differently and Shivanand has done differently. I have to be honest with you–I do not claim to be a Sanskrit scholar. I have read Manu Smriti, Gita, & KathoUpanishads–commentary by schiolars.

  3. andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti ye ‘vidyām upāsate
    tato bhūya iva te tamo ya u vidyāyām ratāḥ [Isha Up. – 9]
    Now tell me, what kind of logic is this! It is understandable if we say one will enter darkness if he worships or follows ignorance, but why would any one enter darkness if he follows knowledge?

    So these verses only encourage to have a complete knowledge of the both the aspects instead of following or knowing only one.
    It is because both knowledge and ignorance are part of…

    • In the quoted Ish-Upanishad verse, the word “Avidyaa” is used for ignorance or nescience. In Patanjal Yog-sutra, (Saadhan-Paad” 5) one can read about the nature of Avidyaa.

      The word “Vidyaa” is used for mere scholarship or learning, without putting virtues in the real life.

      Lesson is simple.

      Bhavesh Merja

  4. …God:

    vidyāvidye mama tanū [SB – 11.11.3]
    – Both knowledge and ignorance are my body (energy potencies)
    And God is both with and without forms:

    dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe, mūrtaṃ caivāmūrtaṃ ca [Brh. Up – 2.3.1]
    – God (Brahman) has two modes, formless (nirakara, asambhuta) as well as form (sakar, sambhuta).

    The Vedas and scriptures are full of contradicting statements for a certain reason. If one takes up only one statement and tries to define everything else as per it, then he will…

    • If you talk to 10 people to interpret these verses then you will get 10 different interpretations–you have to be a real scholar of Sanskrit to interpret them correctly. I am not. Also, Vedas are the basic books–similar to basic books of science. According to Rishi, there can not be contradictions-Santan books.. In fact, you are supporting Zakir Naik –he also says that there were contradictions in Vedas–leading to the creation of Quran. Gita tries to summarize Vedas.

    • In the quoted verse of Brihad-aaranyak Upanishad (2.3.1), the word “Brahma” is used as a group name of 5 Mahaa-bhootas, & not for God. The word “Brahma” has so many meanings viz. truth, diet, wealth, celibacy, matter, emancipation, brahmin, Aum, penance, element or substance, Veda, etc, It is said in this verse that out of the 5 mahaa-bhootas, some (Prithivi, Jal & Agni) have GROSS form; and others (aakaash & Vaayu) have SUBTLE form. This is further clarified in the next…

  5. ….only reach biased and wrong conclusions.

    So my sincere request to you is to keep aside your belief in swami DS for a minute and read the verses I have sent u. Research on them if u want.

    Vedas do convey apparently contradictory meanings……and that is explicitly why Bhagavad Gita came about. Every philosophy in BG has a base in Vedas…….!

    If u still refuse to accept verses like this…iyou are shutting off the windows of your mind

    • Rishi says that Vedas are the true book of knowledge–anything that contradicts should be disowned. My understanding is that Krishna tried to summarize Vedas through Gita. Also, there has been corruption of our scriptures by Pundits–introduced certain verses to justify Murti Puja. Rishi says that if you find anything that contradict Vedas then it is not acceptable. For instance, physics is based on certain basic principles-you can not develop a new theory that contradicts fundamentals.

  6. God has sent with intellect–we can interpret lots of things without referring to any book. It will several years to just count stars in this universe and there are several such galaxies. If you place our beloved planet earth in the right perspective then you will realize that our earth is very tiny. Now, you can take some clay and give it a certain shape–you place it in a temple and say that it is God that created the whole universe–do u see any logic here?

  7. Again everything is made of five elements. The clay shape structure is also made of 5 elements–flowers that you offer is also made of same five elements, your offering is also made of the same 5 elements. You do need any structure to remember God–everything in this wonderful creation reminds us of God every single moment. You offer milk to God-forget for a moment that you are a Hindu-just think with logic.. Not many years back Lord Ganesha was drinking milk–big queue everywhere-logical?

  8. It is not about hurting someone’s feeling. Just Look at Bill Gates–he is spending all his wealth to help others–treating children with Polio–not like Raju, who donated 13 cr for 34 kg necklace to a stone structure. One such religious person was saying that we also serve poor people–what % of Triputi Temple money is used for welfare. Hindus are bunch of ignorant ppl–it hurts but it is True. We are not afraid to commit sin since we can get rid of sins through donations to these toys.

    • I gave you several verses from the Vedas in support of a sakar ishwar…….When I said o contradictions, I meant Vedic verses may seem to be apparently in contradiction to each other…….but the fact is that there is no contradiction within for me.

      But if YOU READ the Vedic verses i posted…..you will have to say those verses contradict your idea of ONLY a nrakar iswar

      BG is in contradiction to Veda only for YOU…..not for me…..so “anything in contradiction to Vedas are to be…

      • If God is ‘Saakaar” means with form, shape etc., kindly inform the basic elements – ingredients of which this God is made.
        Bhavesh Merja

      • God is sakkar,i.e. with forms means he can be worshipped in any form.
        aslo God comes down as incarnations,where he takes material body.
        now wen we say he takes material body,it doesnt mean he becomes limited to the limitations of the material body,rather he can do contradictory things at the same time.

  9. …do not apply to BG. Every philosophy in BG has a base in Veda…no contradiction.

    And don’t forget to comment upon the vedic verses I sent you…….they clearly indicate that there is a sakar iand nirakar form for ishwar!!! (Vedic verse contradicting YOUR IDEAS)

    Expand your knowledge……when knew verses are presented to you….annalyse it and see how it can fit into your established knowledge……if u have doubt…ASK !!!!!

    I promise u……the contradictions will go away

    • One must know the simple philosophical truth that – a thing at a time cannot and does not have two opposite qualities.

      A thing which is formless cannot be at the same time with form.

      God being eternally formless can not be imagined to have any form.

      Scriptural statements should be properly understood before applying them to prove or disapprove any thing.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • Maybe you cannot imagine that god can have at the same time have a form and be formless. That is why you are taking a non-Vedic stand and is going against what is said in Vedas.
        Just like energy exist in its sakar forms like heat, light, electrcity etc, it is also true that energy exists in totally nirakar forms like gravitational energy, nuclear energy and even within a vaccum, similarly god too can.

        That is what is said in Vedas.

        Believe what u want…..but don’t go around thinking…

      • “ENERGY” used in science is inert, not conscious. It is part & parcel of “MASS”. According to Vedic philosophy, “ENERGY” & “MASS” can be considered as effects of the basic – primordial matter named as “Mool-Prakriti”. So, they are inert as their cause is inert. Since the “Mool-Prakriti” has form – though a very very subtle form which cannot be seen, the effects thereof (ENERGY & MASS, etc.) are also with very subtle form and cannot be seen.
        Bhavesh Merja

      • I mean to say that MASS like sub-atomic particles etc. are also with very subtle form and cannot be seen with our eyes.

        Gross matter or mass is easily seen with our eyes.

        Bhavesh Merja

      • Energy and mass is inert and is not conscious

        I quoted the example only to direct your attention to the fact that though electricity, light , heat, mass, vaccum etc are outwardly different, all consist of the same thing…ultimately the same energy…albeit in sakar and nirakar form (ie manifest and unmanifest forms).

        That para was meant to show u that something can exist in dual forms….sakar and nirakar forms…..hence u cannot say that god cannot both be sakar and nirakar as if u r in

      • …a position to define what god can or cannot be !

        PS: I myself is somewhat defining what god can be…..but I have supporting Vedic verses to quote….whereas u r putting “restrictions” on what god can be IGNORING Vedic verses !!!

  10. ….thinking that your version is the whole truth.

    Moreover what i gave were vedic verses…..and not just some statements…….what u did to yourself is that u accepted only those verses which is in line with your already existing ideas and rejected everything else……..your version of god is just a reflection of your own ideas……and you have shut your eyes on Vedas
    and Upanishads !!!!

    Maybe its your mind that is keeping you jailed and u don’t want to take in knowledge!

  11. I also realise that I may not be able to correct you. You are not ready to accept verses from Vedas simply because they go against your ideas and b/c u prefer to maintain your non-Vedic stand. I am sorry for being blunt here, but that is what it is. I am ready to discuss any sciptural evidence with u or anyone if they can explain the lternate verses. But u simply are trying to expel the “contradictory” VEDIC verses b/c they r not in line with your thinking. What u must have done is to think…

  12. ……to accept both verses…..u could have thought maybe Vedas are more complex than u think….and maybe god is much more than the limited definition u gave

    My point in replying here again and again is not primarily you…..the average Hindu is illiterate regarding his scriptures and I don’t want anybody like that to falsely believe that Vedas are against using idols

    There are no verses in Vedas against idol worship

    On the other hand….there are verses which say god can have a…

    • I have not written that any thing, whether it is Energy or Mass, at any time can or does have two opposite qualities or properties.

      Idol-worship is deep routed in our people. So it is always embarrassing to most of them when it is questioned or criticized.

      But truth should be honored. It gives value to human life.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • ….and the truth is that

        1)No verse in Vedas directly or indirectly go against idol worship
        2)There are even verses in Vedas which says ishwar exists in both a formless state and in a state with form (ie sakar and nirakar states). This verse per se do not advicate idol worship….but it does confirm that god is not confined to being formless as some people want to preach and believe.
        3)The absolute fact is no verse exist in Vedas which speak about (for or against) idol worship

  13. 4)Because there are verses in vedas against idol worship…..it is incorrect to state that idol worship is against Vedas
    5)Idols used in worship by Hindu’s are not really god. It is just a medium.. Trough this medium the same one god is worshipped whose form is imcomprehensible for us
    6)Someone may close their eyes and pray to a formless god…..the very act is idol worship in one sense. So all “non-idol worshipper” who are really idol worshipers. The only true non idol worshippers are…

    • In 11th chapter of Satyarth-Prakash, total 7 scriptural evidences of Vedas & Upanishads are quoted, showing hollowness of idolatry.

      The Vedas nowhere say that God has a body or form.

      Even books like Manu-smriti and 6 Darshan-shastras don’t recommend idol-worship any where.

      The stand of Aryasamaj and Swami Dayananda on idol-worship is to be understood properly.

      Bhavesh Merja

  14. Jaha tak andhvishvash ki baat hai to wo har mazhab me hai. Musalman Muhammad ko haad-mans ka bana hua aam insaan nahi maante hain. Wo alag tatwa ka bana hua tha. Unke liye wo Allah ke “noor” se bana hua tha jise Allah ne sabse pahle banaya tha. Wo ye bhi kahte hain ki Muhammad ” hazir” hai. Wo har waqt maujud hai aur wo har jagah jagah ja sakta hai. Wo “nazir” bhi hai. Yaani wo Allah ke saamne sabki gawahi deta hai. Mhammad hi tay karta hai ki kaun jannat jaayega aur kaun jahannum.

  15. Ved kahta hai ki Ishwar narakaar hai. Lekin agar kuchh log murti me Ishwar ki parikalpana kar Ishwar ki aradhana karte hai to ye koi apradh bhi nahi hai jabtak ki wo murti ko hi Ishwar na manne lage. Bahut Hindu aise bhi hai jo Ishwar ki murti nahi banate hai. Ishwar ki aradhana ke kai tarike ho sakte hai.

    Murti puja chahe jitna bhi kharab ho wo Islam ke zihad ki tarah khatarnak nahi hai. Islam me Muhammad ki andhbhakti hai. Muhammad ki maar kaat karne wali bate Islam me Allah ke shabd hain.

  16. Ab jara Islam ke andhvishwash ko dekhe : 1) Allah satve aasman me apne takht par baitha hai. 2) Qayamat ke din 8 fariste uske takht ko pakde hue honge 3) Kabah Allah ka ghar hai 4) Allah Musalmano ko jannat me 72 huri deta hai. 5) Muhammad ko Allah ne apne noor se banaya tha. 6) Faristo ne Muhammad ka dil nikalkar use pavitr pani se saaf kiya 7) Muhammad ne chand ke do tukde kar diye 8) Muhammad udne wale gadhe par chadh ke jannat ki sair karne gaya. 9) bhed ka mans ne Muhammad se baat kiya….

  17. The question here is not whether idol worship is the right way of worshipping god or not. Everyone can have his or her opinion on this and everyone is free to give his or her opinion. Problem arises when some people try to impose their views on others and forces others to accept their ideology.

    Saying that idol worshppers are worst creatures and they will burn in hell is wrong. A noble idol worshpper is far better than a worshipper of formless god who is a criminal.

  18. @Sanjeev

    I had alreadyposted multiple evidence ie verses showing god has form…..here is one more:

    Agne TanuH Asi | Vishnve Tva Somasya Tanur’ Asi (Yaj 1..15)
    (That Eternal Purush has a body for nurturing everyone i.e. when God, comes as a guest in this world for some time to explain Tattavgyan to His devotees, He comes by wearing a body of lighter masses of lights over His actual effulgent body

    Reposting another verse
    dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe, … [Brh. Up – 2.3.1]
    (talks about…

  19. hey jesus when missing in europe that time he was in BHAARATHA(INDIA) & he became student of HIMALAYA BABA(AVATAR BABA) & then jesus was became peace kind man but jesus was not told i am became peace man from SANATHANA DHARMA,, GURUDEV(TEACHER) FROM HIMALAYA BABA(AVATAR BABA) & when jesus death he again became alive after 3 days but after he alive he did not stay in europe he stayed in BHAARATHA & again he became student of 2nd GURU(TEACHER) called MANIKYA the great MANIKYA MUNI(SAINT) teached to him what is SANATHANA DHARMA & MANIKYA gaven RUDRAKHI to jesus & jesus…

  20. मैने सत्यार्थ प्रकाश तथा स्वामी दयानंद के वेंद भाष्य पढे है!!

    i consider swami dayanand saraswti as a person who enlightend all of india /aryavart by providing the brightest light towards understanding vedas and oneness of god mentioned there.

    but when i look upon the sages and various saints who had been here and they had no selfish behaviours or want of something . when such people too acknowledge vedas and idol worship …it mst be understood that there are things we must analyze leaving aside only reading and quoting scriptures…..VEDAS contain more than their wordy meanings .

    • Like Swami Dayananda, all those sages and saints had been human beings, having limited knowledge.

      The individual soul (aatmaa = Jeevaatmaa) is not All-knowing. He is ‘alpajya’ = who knows something, not every thing.

      Only God is All-knowing. So we humans should follow what has been said in the Divine – Revealed book of God i.e. the Vedas.

      The Vedas are books of knowledge. Let us follow the Vedas.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • I agree that people should accept vedas, but why the people should deny the birth of GOD as krishna and Ram. vedas are written by 2180 saints in different time, people have the choice to choose the teacher they want. many believe Krishna is the GOD and teacher, what wrong in following the Lord Krishna.

      • Nothing is wrong…..the problem these people have is that if its a human. then it vecomes that god has become concievable or finite…….

        But I velieve appearing in human form does not make “god” limited to what is seen……..as mentioned in BG Lord Krishna does say that noone inderstands his true nature and that he has transcendent nature…..the body of Krishna that people saw is just a “maya” an illusion !!

      • GOD can take a human form to teach the humans, and he proved. I dont understand why the people are not ready to accept the powerful GOD can take human form.

      • Krishna was a great devotee of God. Even during journey & war, he used to have his regular ‘dhyaan’ (meditation) of God. It is our ignorance that we took him as God.

        One should refer Geeta 18.61 and 62, wherein it is said –

        The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone’s heart means He is all-pervading – Omni-present…O scion of Bharata, surrender unto HIM (= that eternal God, not to great person named Krishna) utterly. By HIS grace you will attain transcendental peace and the supreme and eternal abode.

        Let us follow what has been said by Sri Krishna in these shlokas.

        Bhavesh…

  21. @Bhavesh Merja

    WHy take selective teachings from Lord Krishna?Why can’t u accept other teachings of Krishna?
    If u r capable of just ignoring swami DS you would be in a position to interpret the Vedas and BG WITHOUT contradictions, .I fail to understand why u can’t do that?

    God can be both formless and with form at the same time, a being with form could opt to be without form and vice versa if he is all powrful, whats the problem?

    Having form does not make anything finite !! If u can’t imagine that, its a problem with your brain !

    So eventhough Vedas say god has form, he can be…

    • God can not be both – with form and without form, both being opposite attributes.

      Adi Shankaracharya has also written this in his explanation on Brahma-sootra: 3.1.11:

      “na taavat svat ev parasya brahman ubhay lingam upapadyate. N hyekam vastu svat evam roopaadivisheshopetam tad vipareepam shakyam virodhaat…”

      Wish this view of Shankacharya will be honored.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • No….they are not oppsoing attributes….because .I can imagine it…..many other people can….Its just that you CANNOT…..if for a change u could ignore what all u have learnd and start afresh, then maybe u also could see…but thats not possible !

        I could even give u a very close analogy……
        1)Different “forms” of energy…..electricity, light, heat, sound……but basically they could all be considered as sakar form of the nirakar energy

        2)Energy and Matter……they are interconvertible…..one is sakar (matter)…..and the other can remain nirakar

  22. Reg BG verse ….read not just 18.61 and 18.62

    Also read….18.65

    Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

  23. ‘God’/’Iswar’/Bhagavan/Allah is the subtle food that every one takes. Without food there is no life.
    At home, in member of 5, all the 5 varies in the food stuffs they eat. Because they have different tastes/likings. its not the father or mother or the children to be blamed for this, its the nature of MAN that God has created. Why shud one look into others plate? Look into ur plate enjoy and live happily. Please dont make religion a means for fighting with each other. Lets be one & fight against poverty of FOOD and LOVE.
    Religion is only means to reach GOD. GOD is not religion. GOD…

    • May I ask – why for each member of a family, mathematics, chemistry, geography etc are not different ?

      Let us have first true understanding of God, true conception of God, based on the evidences and reasoning.

      Swami Dayananda in fact aimed to build unity based on truth.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • I could give you the correct analogy

        Say: MATHEMATICS=God

        Trigonometry, Arithematics, Geometry, Matrix etc are the religions !!!

        Its just that you are holding onto Arthematics saying that your so called “basic” maths textbooks talk about only arithematics…..and u r trying to disrepute others !!!!

      • Trigonometry, Arithematics, Geometry, Matrix etc are all the branches of knowledge.

        They are not contradicting each other.

        But here in the current discussion on idol worship, A says – God has a form. B says – God is formless.

        This is to be understood.

        Two opposite or contradicrory statements about a thing at a same time can not be held true.

        Bhavesh Merja

      • Contradictions….ehhh?

        In smaller classes we are taught that a negative number cannot have a square root…..and in class XI we are taught about the number or concept called “i”. If u want to keep on arguing u could reject the concept of “i”(where i =√ −1)…..stating “No I can’t accept “i”….it is contradictory to the number system to even consider “i” ”

        Similarly one religion may talk about a formless god, another about god with a form…….apparently contradictory…..then comes the third explanation “god can be both formless and with form”…….which explains…

      • Now u can keep your so called contradictions….but we dont have any contradictions in our mind……….just as the concpet of “i”

        Only if u willing to accept the concept of “i”, can u be at piece !!!!

      • And finally….you know trigonometry, arithematics are all branches of mathematics…..but as I explained to concept of “i” in the previous reply…….u e still stuck up with basic level arithematics and keep on saying “basic maths TB talk about arithematics only…..so others should be rejected”

        Similarly with higher levels of knowledge u learn to appreciate something which may not be mentioned in higher TB

        Your so called confusion in formless and form god is that they r contradictory….That also is not correct…Haven’t u seen energy(formless) and light (form)?

      • See dear it is simple to understand, no need to think much-
        If god would be formless then how could a universe with very beautiful and appealing form could be created ??
        Every thing is having a definite form, without form it is useless.
        Let me clear you, –
        how would you see a text as a means of achieving or worshiping god ?? like Gita, vedas, quran, bible etc……
        now you will be saying that – yes holy text are an appropriate way to worship god . Right ??
        so my question is that – you are accepting words printed on any media which is having form, ( letters – A to Z and numbers- 1 to 9 have a definite form !! ) to be a medium to god but not pictures or idols ?? why why ??
        When we are reading any text written in any language, we are creating and at the same time remembering the images of the letters, symbols and numbers in our occipital lobe of our brain, when we are reading with pure and full devotion we are actually worshiping those images and the book.
        Thats why holy books like Gita, Quran and Bible are regarded not only as books but as divine matter and are treated with respect in all religions.
        Idols are 3 dimensional and pictures of god and words of holy text are 2 dimensional.
        formless worshiping of the creator ( god ) is not at all possible.
        After all swami dayanand saraswati is also a human, and all humans including great personalities are susceptible to mistakes.
        Think out of flow, think logical in a true sense.
        God bless you

      • Yes I agree with u bhai, Maths…everything is intellectually same; but still all cant grasp them in the same level. I am good at Maths and poor in Eng, but my husband is very good at Physics me not. But the mutual LOVE which we share in the family cant be expressed intellectually.
        UNDERSTAND GOD BUT DONT ARGUE UPON GOD. God is irrespective of religion.
        To understand GOD u need intellect but to REALISE and LOVE GOD u just need a PURE HEART.

  24. Why arguing about Idols her?
    There are no Idols, they are MURTIS!
    The rishis gave different murtis for different mindset of people!
    The rishis knew that there is only one God who is the source of everything BRAHMAHN and this formless absolute fullness is very difficult to understand.
    A murti that shows an aspect of God always represents also the fullness.
    Om Purnamadah Purnamidam, this Upanishad mantra when understood, makes clear that murtis are not idols and that a part or Aspect of God (fullness) is always also fullness and even fullness minus fullness is still fullness. You…

  25. …may not understand emiedadly who fullness when cut in pices (murtis) can remain full and also the “pieces”, but contemplaiting about the mntra can help. Another explanation of this (Brahman) is called INDRAS NET!
    Hope I could stop the fruitless argumentation “idol” pro & contra. let me know!

    Om Namah Shivaya

  26. what else to expect from a arya samaji. The topic is about his own religion but he can’t control the nature of aryas which is attacking other religions. If you support idol worship will you tear these pages from satyarth and throw it away?
    “Idol worship is a fraud. The Jaiinees were the authors of this mode of worship.” Satyarth Prakash Page 240
    have some courage and approve this comment

  27. Yes Islam calls a non Muslim as Kafir. The root meaning is one who covers. Like farmers cover the seed in soil. every religion has a believer and a disbeliever. The term kafir is a much more honored word compared to what Vedic scriptures uses, mleccha barbarians, rakshas dasya demons for disbelievers, it doesn’t even consider shudras to be aryans, dayanand writer that shudras are anaryas. and I read in one of your article that anaryas are terrorists. Man it’s over its of no use in mocking other religions and using Mayavi Vedic fraud to display ones relgn as superior evrne knws d truth abt…

    • Yes, Every religion has believer and disbelieve, but vedas did not preach to kill or pay tax to the disbeliever. this applicable only to islam.
      malecha means barbarism its right, but it is a character of a person. Barbaric person will have the character of war crimes, thighing a small girl, etc.
      For your information RAVAN who is the greatest devotee of GOD belongs to rakash tribe.
      you should know what is difference between shruds and aryans.. shruds is a Varna and aryan is tribe… Even RAVAN is called Arya putra in ramayan.

  28. It depends on whom we accept as authorities.

    If Sripad Adi ShakaraArachrya, Sripad RamanujaAcharya, Sripad MadhvaAcharya, Sripad VallabhAcharya, Sripad Vishnu Swami, Sripad NimbarkaAcharya, Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Jiva Goswami, Sant Tukaram ji Maharaj, all of them accepct the 700 verses of Bhagavad Gita aas authority, all of them accept Deity Worship as authentic, then who are we(born in a age of rampant cow killing), to say no ?

    Please do note, the above perons are spotless in character and their behavior and also are widely respected by the Dhiras(sober) and the Adhiras(wild) alike. We all accept that they were not on this planet to cheat us, to misguide us.

    Even a small photo of our father, mother, or child evokes such nice feelings of love and respect, what to speak of the authentic Deity of the Lord.

    Bg 7.24
    avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ
    manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
    paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
    mamāvyayam anuttamam
    Word for word:
    avyaktam — nonmanifested; vyaktim — personality; āpannam — achieved; manyante — think; mām — Me; abuddhayaḥ — less intelligent persons; param — supreme; bhāvam — existence; ajānantaḥ — without knowing; mama — My; avyayam — imperishable; anuttamam — the finest.
    Translation:
    Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.

  29. Amazing to see so much pointless debate . The last sentences tell in bold ” I am the greatest champion of Idol-Worship till …..” It implies Agniveer does not support idol worship but will defend the right to worship of idolators. Reminds me of the famous ” I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it” attributed to Voltaire. People who want to reduce Swami Dayananda Saraswati’s contributions to “just an interpretation” should better look into Aurobindo’s explanation of his importance.

    • @Mitra, I swear you haven’t read the whole article. First analyse to whom it has been written for, and then comment.

    • @Mitra,

      Seeing your comments I am reminded of this principle laid out by Bhagvan Bhashyakara:

      Sarvatra ihya adhyatma shastreshu, gyani krithartha lakshanani,
      Tani sadhanani uchyanthe, yatna saadhyatvad

      The qualities of a kritthartha (one who has achieved success) in aadhyatma shashtra are all things that a saadhaka (learner) should try to acquire, because all those are pathto success.

      Meaning if you see Swami DS as a “mahat vyakti”……u must strive to imbibe those qualities that u think your role model was great about.

      Sad to note that in your case (and many of other Arya Samaji’s)……you think the most imp teaching of swami DS was “no idol worship”.

      I am not going to explain “WHY” again…..but I am telling you …..you are most liekly in a misguided path……..this “no idolworship” thing and everything will come, they have a place…….but your total antagonist attitude towards idol worship will not get you anywhere

      You only think u know…..of Swami DS real teachings…..or what is idol worship

      Your methhod of blindly following one preacher and intolerance towards his teachings should be modified …….I invite u to go through the teachings of swami Sivanda……..a great proponent of Vedanta…..teacher of many current generation advaita saints !!!!!

      http://cincinnatitemple.com/articles/idolworship.pdf

      Keep your eyes closed if u wish…….but I am giving u an oppurtunity

  30. Hi Agniveer !

    Don’t you think that Idol worship is the grosser part and DIETY WORSHIP is the subtler part, the fact that an Idol represents all/selective attributes of that particular DIETY which it represents ..

    Anyways.. Great work by you Sanjeev ji .

  31. -Agniveer
    Your post is VERY POOR, I am sorry to say. Not only are you going against your vedas(which condemn’s idol worship) but you are going against the one who you consider to be your mentor, SWAMI DAYANAND SAWASWATI.

    Anyway your main points were:

    How can anyone in world prove that idol-worship is sin? What is wrong with idol-worship?

    Response : Can a 50 rupees image replace GOD?
    Does that small idol show any IMAGE of GOD?
    Should we pray to a CREATOR or to a MERE CREATED THING, created by humans.

    Qur’an 16:20
    As for the idols they set up beside GOD, they do not create anything; they THEMSELVES WERE CREATED .

    If I worship idols, if I keep making new and new idols and worship them in new and new ways, what is anybody’s problem?

    Response :We don’t bother what you worship. Our duty was just to tell you the truth.

    Quran 36:17
    “And our duty is only to proclaim the clear Message.”

    Quran 16:82
    “But if they turn away, thy duty is only to preach the clear Message. ”

    Quran 29:18
    “But if ye deny, then nations have denied before you. The messenger is only to convey (the message) plainly. ”

    Does it cause loose motion in someone? Does it kill someone?

    Response : Absolutely not. Your life, you’re choice. You want to go astray you can go. We don’t want to be like you

    Qur’an 1:6-7
    6 Show us the Straight way
    7 The way of those who you have favoured NOR OF THIS WHO INCURRED YOUR DISPLEASURE OR OF THIS WHO WONT ASTRAY

    This is what we pray 5 times everyday in BEGINING of every prayer.

    Does it rob anyone’s property? Does it rape someone?

    Response : RAPE??
    Poor mentality
    May Allah(Swt) bless you and show you light.

    • the rig veda says “to him is called as agni, vayu,etc…indra, and noble winged garuta”10/164/48
      agni is fire,indra has the attributes of thunderbolt,wtc. and noble wingd garutha is the eagle carrier of lord visnu.
      thus God is ONE but worshipped in many forms.that is what the verse says.
      the idol is only a projection of the form in which we worship God.

      • @jazib.

        and firther.your question”can a 50 rupee buy a god”?
        my question is “can yu buy God’s word with the same 50 rupee(the quran”)”?

        we r only mpressing a form to meditate on.

      • -Saroj
        What kind of response is this. Instead of Answering you posed a Counter Question. But the flaw was Clear in your Question.

        1. No Muslim worships Qur’an

        2. God’s word is not God himself

        3. God spoke many thing’s

        4. God’s word is free for you guy’s if you want to hear as HE loves those who perform righteousness

        Qur’an 9:6
        And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of God; then convey him to his place of security. That is because THEY ARE A PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE.

      • there isnt any flaw in the question,either you didnt understand it,or your wbke to answer it.

        , the pictur is only a form to meditate on,a representation of Godhead ,representing one or few aspects of God head.each form is thus a representation of an aspect of Godhead.
        if hat repreentation cannt be bought by 50 rupees,then God’s word imprinted on paper cannot be equally bought by fifty rupee,

        even if God is his words or not,the question is can his words be bought by 50 rupees.

        you idiot presume only your wods are rights,so you put these astatement”wht kind of reprense os that”,well f you had some brains,you would have understood that these questions were spot on.

      • @Jazib
        “Jews, Muslims – we never require idols for concentration.
        Visit any Masjid.
        So this is a mere excuse. ”

        True……but what we are trying to say is that, you are much poor a concentrating than us…..sorry to sound obnoxious……but that is something many people here wanted to say for long……we personally feel that using an idol makes us pray better to the one and only creator indescribabale/incomprehensible god eventhough the idol per se is not god (there is onlyone god…..hence theidol is not god) and eventhough the idol is not in the shape of god

        It seems that the Hindu wy of using idols is not something u don’t understand at all……BY DEFINITION, an idol used by Hindu’s is that which aids in prayer to the one and only one god and at the same time is not a (true) representation of god nor is it associating partners with god !!!!!

        Its like your word ALLAH…..ALLAH is not really the god…..not even the english word “god” is god (if u know what i mean)……ALLAH is just an Arabic word which u use to connect with god……for us HINDU’s its the word “ishwar”, “paramaatma”, vishnu , shiva or an idol

        If i am not mistaken……Allah has allowed muslims some 99 or 100 words(names) to use while referring about god-right? similarly when it comes to hinduism we have been given permission to use a method with which one is comfortable……you can referto allah in any of those names and same is the case with Hinduism

        In addition god has also clarified that use of “forms” (saakar ishwar) is easier and is better…..but certain people connect better with nirakar ishwar-they can do so……the path although difficult is the same !

  32. Sorry!
    7th verse is
    The way of those who you have favoured nor of those who incurred your displeasure or of those who went astray.

    Spell problem.

    • @Jazid

      Your posts shwo your stubborness in not trying to think out of the box
      “Can a 50 rupees image replace GOD?”

      To answer that…..think whether: don’t people use large portraits or photographs of their loved ones(esp ones who have passed away…say for eg-of your mother)

      Is that 100 rupee portrait or picture your mother……? Is the shape of the woman in the picture your mother?
      No….yet people use them….similarly….the idols and photos that u see Hindu’s use are not gods….they are only their to improve our devotion to god

      Understand this carefully” Muslims take more importance in how they worship…….and to worship and do deeds as outlined in quran……whereas for Hindu’s…….it is how DEEPLY they worship that is important……for achieving this depth they use suitable means that increases their devotion”

      Can u understand……..we have one ishwar (paramatma)…who form cannot be understood by us…….and multiple manifestations of that one ishwar….we acknowledge that there is only one ishwar but with multiple means to worship that one ishwar….the means that each individual take depends on his capability and aptitude

      It is that same one god and not multiple gods…..we are not worshipping the idols…….

      Coming back to the analogy of your mother…..lets suppose she is alive……but the fact is that even when alive its not really the body we worship…..its the soul within……..if for eg…your mother has an accident and her body gets disfigured…i am sure u will feel the same love and respect to your mother despite her body getting changed (scarred)….so the reality the physical body and the idols and the pictures/portraits all mean nothing more than a means to connect to the concept of mother/god…..you may two pictures of your mother-do u then have two mothers…….?

      no…its the same one mother

      look! in our minds this concept of single god is very clear……we fail to understand why u guys…

    • NOW does your quran really say that idol worship is not be done? I doubt it..!

      BUT before that …a point is to be noted here: There are several places in Quran where it is implied that people at that time used the consider the idol or an image to be their god….which has been stated as wrong by several others

      But this is not what other religions practice now…they don’t consider the idol (the stone or the image) to be their god…….they only use the idol to worship the one god…..they don’t worship the idol……..thats a vast difference……and quran refers to the first group(idol worshipers)…..whereas hindu’s are users of idols to worship the same one god

      so why do we need idol at all……can we avoid it altogether?
      ans: as explained by me earlier……for us ……the DEPTH OF OUR WORSHIP is whats more important……because god anyhow has an incomprehensible shape…..so however we worship….its always going to be wrong…..so if god is all knowing and all that…….he would be worried about “did these poorly equipped insignificant humans get my incomprehensible shape right”…..if he is gonna be bothered…..”it willbe about how deeply we worship him?”

      so the idol worshippers in the time of quran was whole lot different…..they considered the idol itself to be god

      anyways ….i have not come across a verse in quran that DIRECTLY prohibits idol worship

      Many verses i came across earlier were at best only indirect (hence inconclusive)
      For eg: verse 29:25, 29:17, and 14:35 -all were sort of discussions betweeen two people
      Verse 4.116, 4.48-all say similar things-no partners for ALLAH …..and people “interpreted” the “no partners for Allah” to be about idols

      lets look at the verse u posted
      16.20: Waqala innama ……..wama lakum min nasireena

      which amongst these words is the arabic for “idol”

      wa alladhina….means “and those of whom”…..while the verse really means “And those they invoke other than…

    • -Saroj
      So a 50 rupees Idol is a representation of God
      Hmm
      “REPRESENTATION OF GOD”
      As you said :

      -the pictur is only a form to meditate on,a representation of Godhead ,representing one or few aspects of God head.each

      Response : It’s Ishwar maybe who can be represented by Little dirty idol created by a mere human being. It can’t represent infinite God NOTHING CAN.

      – form is thus a representation of an aspect of Godhead.

      Response : Ohh I see. That’s why you have 33 crore idols. So poor. You don’t need any idol between you and God.

      -if hat repreentation cannt be bought by 50 rupees,then God’s word imprinted on paper cannot be equally bought by fifty rupee,

      Response :50 rupees?
      God’s word is free. Wasn’t it revealed free. Did God take any money from People?
      God’s word is not God is sufficient to answer this. Guidance costs nothing.
      An idol has to be poured milk everyday and if that milk is given to needy that would be better as Qur’an makes it Clear.

      -even if God is his words or not,the question is can his words be bought by 50 rupees.

      Response : I said it’s free. Guidance Costs nothing. This foolishness reminds me of a verse of Holy book

      Qur’an 2:16-17
      16. These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.
      17. Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindled a fire; then, when it lighted all around him, God took away their light and left them in darkness. (So) they could not see.

      -you idiot presume only your wods are rights,so you put these astatement”wht kind of reprense os that”,well f you had some brains,you would have understood that these questions were spot on.

      Response : It’s you who are a Fool and want’s not to accept reality.

      Qur’an 2:11-12
      11. And when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “We are only peacemakers.”
      12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they…

      • first, God is infinite and is all encpmpassing,thus all the forms are enompassed by him.thus the whole God is not represented by the form,but only perceivable aspect(perceivable to us) is represented by the idol.ishwar/allah has aspects beyond our comprehension,but only those aspects of Godhead tht we can perceive are represented by the form.this enables us to fix our mind on a form and a visual representation of the apects of Godhead.

        thus the whole infinitude,with aspects beyond comprehension is not represented by the form.

        God’s words are free,as you said to me ji, so you dont need to give fifty rupees for the qur’an.right. then the form representing God,in aspects of Godhead is also free,so we dont need to buy a picture by paying 50 rupees,we can still fix the form in heart.hence your first question,”can you buy God for fifty rupees” is answered here.

        next, it is not that i dont want to accept reality or not,i am sure in my oncept of God as an all encompassing and all pervasive being.

      • -Saroj
        Again you did confusion between God’s word and God himself.

        You said form representing Godhead is free.

        1. That’s not God’s form and can never representing Godhead.

        2. Jews, Muslims – we never require idols for concentration.
        Visit any Masjid.
        So this is a mere excuse.

        3. God is infinite doesn’t mean he is everywhere AS IT MEANS HE IS SPACE BOUND.

        A person’s picture is not the person itself.

        So The God whose picture can’t be created is first of all impossible to make and no thing can replace Godhead.

        This verse concept of worshipping through idols came from Greek and Babylonian Pagan’s. Satan was able to DECIEVE them and today you see 1000s of idols are present in world.

        While worshiping throw idol it’s impossible that a person has no attention on the idol. At that time he makes concentration such that he believes idol as GOD (idolatry)

        Now if you will claim otherwise that you don’t feel any such situation then you should not need idol.

        IN SHORT IDOL IS LINKED BRTWEEN and that’s clear paganism.

        Concentration even through the idol includes the idol and that’s where you guy’s associate partners with God.

      • i did not confuse anything.i only said that if a picture representing perceivable aspects of Godhead can not be bought,then equally God’s words can’t be brought by the same amount of money.

        i told, only those perceivable aspects of Godhead is represeted by the form. id is impossible to represent God fully since Godhead has aspects beyond our comprehention.but,only those aspects of Godhead that is conceivable to us is represented by the form.thus, i did not say Godhead is compley=teley represented and this i tod in the previous comment itself.

        only perceivable aspects of Godhead is represented by the form.

        also God is all encompassing,thus he encompasses our minds too.thus all the forms that we can think of as representing perceivable aspects of Godhead are also encpompassed by him,as he pervads our minds.thus,we can meditate on a form that represents a perceivable aspect of Godhead since God encompasses that Form too as an aspect of Himself.that is because ,God in hinduism is allencppassing and all pervasive,

        coming to concentration ,we meditate/comcentrate on the form represented by the idoleven if the idol is thrown away,we still can meditate o the form.

        jazib,you missed the most important point in the above comment of mine:
        “thus the whole God is not represented by the form,but only perceivable aspect(perceivable to us) is represented by the idol.ishwar/allah has aspects beyond our comprehension,but only those aspects of Godhead tht we can perceive are represented by the form.”

        i clearly stated that the whole Godhead is not represented in the form, but only perceivable aspects.those were revealed to our sages.and some can be understood by commen ssense.
        “

  33. @ Jazib

    same goes for verses: 12:106, 31:13, 4:48 etc etc……in all thise verses the verse really don’t talk about “idols”…..its just that “idol” has been interpreted into the verse

    Same is the case with the VEDAS……the Vedas do not prohibit idol worship……it doesn’t even consider the topic of usage of “idols”

    its only wishful re-interpretaation by certain vested interests that interpret verses like “na tasya pratima asti…” in a wrong manner to state that vedas are against idol worship…….in fact vedas at few places even touch upon the concpet of form of god (saakar ishwar)

    I had already posted those verses here months back……

    FINALLY there is one religious scripture that clears the confusion unambiguously…..u hear it…unambigously…..read these verses and see how clearly….unamnibously it takes about this issue…….unlike quran which can have multiple interpretations(to clarify….i don’t think its the qurans fault…its the readers fault….but bhagavad gita is way too clear)…see this

    BHAGAVAD GITA chapter 12 verses 1 to 4

    Arjuna inquired: Which is considered to be more perfect: those who are properly engaged in Your devotional service, or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?
    KRISHNA said: He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by MeTO BE MOST PERFECT.
    But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, fixed, and immovable-the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth (ALLAH for u)-by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all,AT LAST ACHIEVE ME.
    For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progrese in that discipline is always difficult for those who…

    • -Saroj
      Alain Fallacy has been committed
      God’s word is not God itself
      God’s word is GOD’S CREATION. THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE TWO.

      YOU again repeated “those aspects of God head” which I answered no aspect of God head can be represented by his creation.

      Moreover, the Creation designee by Human being.
      When human being can’t comprehend aspects of God head but still in your case you represent an infinite God head’s aspect by an finite thing.

      You said we can concentrate without idols which is not true. If it was so then why do you need Idols at first place to Concentrate.

      Atlast you said that I never said God is everywhere. I wish to give you a screen shot of your Google + account where you said God is everywhere and when the other Guy told you is then he in toilet, you said IN THAT WAY NO!

      All this you need to deal with.

      • @jazib
        my point was that God’s word can be bought is the representation of an aspect of Godhead(perceivable aspect) is bought .

        i told you God is all encompassing and all pervasive thus Godhead has aspects that are at a perceivable level to us.
        you said:”When human being can’t comprehend aspects of God head but still in your case you represent an infinite God head’s aspect by an finite thing.”
        yes we cant comprehend GOD COMPLETERLY, but there are aspects of Godhead that are perceivable to us.what is represented is NOT AN INFINITE GOD COMEPLETELY, but only those aspects that are perceivable to us.
        since God is all encmpassing and all pervasive as per hinduism ,God is infinite, but he has aspects of Godhead that are perceivable to us.only those aspects are represented by forms.I AM NOT REPRESENTING THE WHOLE INFINITUDE OF GODHEAD BY A MERE FORM, BUT ONLY A PERCEIVABLE ASPECT OF GODHEAD BY FORMS.

        we dont need an idol,that i said in the beginning itself, an idol is only a form to fix our mind onto.THE IDOL IS A PHYSCAL PROJECTION OF THE FORM on which we meditate, by decorating the idol and beautifying it with sandalwood paste,agarbathi, lawps,etc,the form gets even more fixed onto our mind,since we directly perceive it.
        if you dont need an idol for fixing the form at all,then you can fix the form in your mind without beautifying an idol representing the same.

  34. -Jyotish Vijay
    Your arguments doesn’t justify anything. Do you claim you understood VEDAS BROTHER THAT DAYANAND. Anyway if you do I will just address your Questions.

    Your posts shwo your stubborness in not trying to think out of the box
    “Can a 50 rupees image replace GOD?”

    To answer that…..think whether: don’t people use large portraits or photographs of their loved ones(esp ones who have passed away…say for eg-of your mother)

    Response: But that MOTHERS PICTURE IS NOT THE MOTHER ITSELF(this is enough to refute you) but I will tell you. Do you know how GOD LOOK LIKE??
    God’s image can’t be replaced by anything.

    AFTER THAT YOU ELABORATED YOUR POINT with which I have no concern as it’s still wrong. Then you said about some MOTHER story. Anyway we don’t worship it and it’s not the mother still.

    NOW does your quran really say that idol worship is not be done? I doubt it..!

    Response : Absolutely. The best person who understood Qur’an was Prophet Muhammad pbuh, he said the same.

    BUT before that …a point is to be noted here: There are several places in Quran where it is implied that people at that time used the consider the idol or an image to be their god….which has been stated as wrong by several others

    Response: Really! Qur’an says keep away from AR-RUJZ(Idols) but I am desperate to see what you wanna tell.

    Many verses i came across earlier were at best only indirect (hence inconclusive)
    For eg: verse 29:25, 29:17, and 14:35 -all were sort of discussions betweeen two people

    Response:This is what prophet was told to tell. You should have read from 1st verse.
    Consider verse 10 of sura 29 you will analyse what you failed to analyse and then read from that.

  35. Continued from previous…

    -Verse 4.116, 4.48-all say similar things-no partners for ALLAH …..and people “interpreted” the “no partners for Allah” to be about idols

    Response: you basic knowledge of Islam is weak rather I would say very weak

    Qur’an 74:5
    And keep away from Ar-Rujz (the idols)

    There are 2 interpretations of it
    1. Worship anyone besides One true God
    2. Using idols
    Both ways we are associating something with God.
    Quranic verses say in many places against idols, I don’t know on what basis are you saying this.

    At last you Quoted verses regarding don’t worship anyone besides me BUT THERE ARE VERSES AGAINST IDOLS ALSO LIKE THE ONE I QUOTED.

    And Bhagwat gita contradicts vedas which even agniveer admits. Thus we should look at top source and interpret other scriptures with that perspective.

    • shri jazib ji kuran 4-116 aur 4-48 me to ek hi baat hai fir usi adhyaya me vah baat doaharane ki jarurat kya pad gayi thi kya isse kalpit kurani allah ki gambhirta kam nahi ho jati hai ?
      fir yah “kalma” kya hai?
      kalpit allah ke saath kalpit rasul kyo jode jaye ?
      sirf allah” hi ” ko adar kyo n diya jaye ?
      jaise any khalifa the vaise kalpit rasul-nabi bhi rahete
      jo kuran 5 baar namaj padhane ka jikar nahi kar pati
      jo kuran kalama ki ayat nahi batala pati
      jo kuran “khatana ” ka jikar nahi kar pati
      itne mahatv purn baat shayad vah bhul gaya hoga
      lekin vahi kuran bhut se masle anek baar pesh karke kuran ki ayato ki sankhya jarur badha deti hai !

    • 1)swami daayanand saraswati (DS fr short) is not the ultimate authorit. He will not even be considered as ultimate to interpret the VEDAS. (more on that later)
      2)My points about Hinduism is based on scriptural knowledge. You are welcome to ask qn if u have any; but quoting swami DS as authority-will not work! You can quote either the VEDAS OR UPANISHADS OR BHAGAVAD GITA. If I know the answer I will answer. I am not an expert though. Else you may opt not to discuss Hinduism (whichever uits u)
      3)The simple truth is that idol worship is not at all there in VEDAS. Swami DS advocates not to use idols based on “lack of mentioning of idols in VEDAS.”. But, if idol worship is not to be done-it should be there within the scripture. That argument by DS is fallacious–clarified by lot many other experts elsewhere !
      4)Your statement:”But that MOTHERS PICTURE IS NOT THE MOTHER ITSELF(this is enough to refute you)”
      My Response: Sorry to say….rather than refuting me….u said the exact same point supporting me……the picture of your mother is not the mother itslef……I AM ALSO SAYING THE SAME THING…..Similarly the idol of the god IS NOT GOD……yet we use portraits of our elders and it is in a similar fashion that HIndu’s use idols

      5)Your statement: “Do you know how GOD LOOK LIKE?? God’s image can’t be replaced by anything”
      My Response: When did I say otherwise…..Hindu’s do not think that the idol is the god nor that god looks like the idol

      6)Now regarding quran and idol. I had given multiple verses from quran that people quotes to be verses against quran-which are anti-idols only via interpretations.. You quoted two verses to condemn idol worship Q16.20 has already been shown by me to be anti-idols only by interpretation…then u quoted al-rujza (quran 74.5). Here again it becomes anti-idol only via interpretaion. Al-rujza means “and uncleanliness”

      7)You say there are multiple verses-where r they? IS there even an ARABIC WORD FOR IDOL?

    • @ Jazid

      I think when u were introduced to ISLAM….you were told first off not to use idols and then when u see these verses, you may not feel the need to question

      I am still open to an answer….if u r knowledgable enough, explain your stand

      and is there even an arabic for idols?

      do u know what this means ?المعبود

      I know that preISLAM did practice actual idol worship…considering idols as god……but thats very different from HINDUISM

      8)Regarding swami DS and Bhagawad Gita (BG for short)
      There are no contradictions between VEDAS and BG because Vedas do not even talk about idols, let alone prohibit it. And if u didn’t know it before:plz know that BG is considered as the essence of Vedas. It is considered so because all messages within BG has a basis from the Vedas.

      9)IF you must who is the authority over scriptures in HINDUISM-the answer is god himsef/in other words lord krishna(because krishna is the concept in which i like to percieve god)…….and next in Ved Vyasa himself……it is Ved Vyasa who wrote the BG and it is he himslef who had “arranged” the Vedas. Surely Ved Vyasa must be considered as a more comPetent authority over Vedas than any swami DS

  36. -Vijay made my work easier by accepting that IDOL IS NOT THE GOD ITSELF neither is it image of God.

    Therefore we don’t worship it simple.
    We Muslims never needed any idol to concentrate. Visit any Masjid and see yourself.

    You said RUJZ means unclealiness.
    It has two meanings both pollution and IDOLS.
    So here I am also justified.

    You said we don’t worship idols like pre-islamic Arabs but YOU CONSIDER IDOL to be a medium still. That’s what’s called ” associating partners MABOOD”
    Idol المعبود

    7)You say there are multiple verses-where r they? IS there even an ARABIC WORD FOR IDOL?

    Response: MABOOD refers to both ” idol” or setting partners.
    I always laugh at these arguments when HINDUS pretend to know Arabic.
    Anyway ISLAM debunks every type of idol worship whether it be WORSHIPPING IDOL OR WORSHIPPING THROUGH IDOL.

    Do you know CHRISTIANS BELIEVED IN 1 GOD BUT MADE IDOL OF IT. Still they were called idolators. So was the case with some Jews.

    • @ Jazib

      “Vijay made my work easier by accepting that IDOL IS NOT THE GOD ITSELF neither is it image of God. ”

      Where did anybody tell that Hindu’s think that the idol is god in the first place?
      In the example of the “mother’s portrait” also I tried to say the same thing
      So who was it that ever said that Hindu’s consider the idol as god?
      Ans: It was you who said that…..you put forward the argument…..and when pointed out the truth, you just backtracked

      NOW HAVINGESTABLISHED that Hindu’s do not consider the idol as god….and that the “mothers portrait” is not really the mother…the question arises…..inspite of mother’s portrait not being the mother, WE STILL USE A PORTRAIT -don’t we?

      Its the same analogy with the idols…we knows its not god…..we even know….its not how god looks like……yet we use it as a medium….thats all

      Is it that the shape doesn’t match god is what causing you problem?
      Our view: We don’t think that the shape is matching god to begin with. The four arms of VISHNU that u may have seen is nothing but symbolism….to express the view that god controls multiple activities(creation, nurtuturing etc etc)…..Hindu’s don’t believe that there is a four armed god looking like a man lying in a actual ocean of milk

      Also to remeber that two idols need not even look alike

      “Anyway ISLAM debunks every type of idol worship whether it be WORSHIPPING IDOL OR WORSHIPPING THROUGH IDOL. ”

      Islam maybe…..but quran does not debunk worshipping Allah through idols……your usage of the word “Allah” itself is an idol to begin with……

      As for quran being against idol worship….I am not all that sure

      You see ….you say that the word rujza and Maboob means idol (as one amongst the meanings)…..yet when i look at translated verses, i see people interpreting it differently…..which suggests that “uncleanliness/pollution” is the original Arabic meaning….ands “idol” is at most an additional meaning…

  37. -rajk.hyd

    -shri jazib ji kuran 4-116 aur 4-48 me to ek hi baat hai fir usi adhyaya me vah baat doaharane ki jarurat kya pad gayi thi kya isse kalpit kurani allah ki gambhirta kam nahi ho jati hai ?

    Response: Tum jaise gadho ko samjane ke liye.

    Qur’an 15:87
    اور بیشک ہم نے آپ کو بار بار دہرائی جانے والی سات آیتیں (یعنی سورۂ فاتحہ) اور بڑی عظمت والا قرآن عطا فرمایا ہے،

    Farzi to VED ka ISHWAR hai.
    Jo na kuch banasakta hai
    Jis ne humhe Nahi banaya
    Jo SAB kuch nai kar sakta
    Jo SAB kuch Nahi janta
    YE SAB BATE aaphi ke dharam shastra k guruwon ne kahi hai.

    fir yah “kalma” kya hai?
    kalpit allah ke saath kalpit rasul kyo jode jaye ?

    Response : Sirf ” bhonkne”se kuch nhi hota.
    Hum RASOOLUN ki ibadat Nahi karti.
    Par Haan aap GAI MATA(cow), bandar(hanuman) , SAANP(snake), kutta(dog-bhairava), aur galat chizhen jaise LINGA ki KALPIT ISHWAR ke saath jodte ho.

    sirf allah” hi ” ko adar kyo n diya jaye ?
    Response :Hum sirf ussi ki ibadat karta hai aap apne raaste Lago.

    jaise any khalifa the vaise kalpit rasul-nabi bhi rahete

    Response: KALPIT to aapke dharma ji ka Matlab hi daako hai.
    Hindu – dacoit robber.
    Ye Hindu lafz bhi Hindu kitabun mei nhi.

    jo kuran 5 baar namaj padhane ka jikar nahi kar pati

    Response :aandho ko Aayatein NAZAR nhi aati.

    Qur’an 30:17
    پس تم اﷲ کی تسبیح کیا کرو جب تم شام کرو (یعنی مغرب اور عشاء کے وقت) اور جب تم صبح کرو (یعنی فجر کے وقت)،
    Prophet’s companion on it.
    So glorify Allaah when you come up to the evening’ is maghrib and ‘isha’; ‘and when you enter the morning’ is fajr; ‘in the afternoon’ is ‘asr; and ‘the time when the day begins to decline’ is zuhr.”

    jo kuran kalama ki ayat nahi batala pati
    Response: Door ke Mar Jao.
    Kalima k DO hishe hai
    1. Koi MABOOD nhi hai Allah k siwa
    2. Aur Muhammad saw us ke rasool hai.

    Qur’an 3:18
    اﷲ نے اس بات پر گواہی دی کہ اس کے سوا کوئی لائقِ عبادت نہیں
    Qur’an 48:29
    محمد (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) اﷲ کے رسول…

  38. jo kuran “khatana ” ka jikar nahi kar pati

    Response: khatna SUNNAT nhi hai.
    Pehle jo bol rahe ho soncha Karo.

    itne mahatv purn baat shayad vah bhul gaya hoga
    lekin vahi kuran bhut se masle anek baar pesh karke kuran ki ayato ki sankhya jarur badha deti hai !

    Response: Tumhara ISHWAR bolta hai baat. Apne bethe ki GRADAN KAATHTA HAI.
    Auraton ko nahate hue dekha hai.

    Vedic ISHWAR par to ved k likhne valun ko bhi shak tha k SAB janta hai ki nahi(Rig veda 10:129:7)

  39. @Jazid

    But thats fine by me….you can believe whatever u want to believe….but if u can just think…….would u be so confident, had u read quran with no pre-conditioning, and no priming and no prejudices of any kind

    Anyways…its ok by me (Hindu’s in general)…afterall many Hindu’s perform god worship without idols of any kind

    But one thing I am sure…..its that quran doesn’t negate usage of idols as just a medium….it doesn’t touch this speciffic concept……no population in Arabia or pagans were known to practice this form of worship…..and neither does the quran mentions this specific form…….and if u include, it in the umbrella term….of “uncleanliness” and ” associating partners with Allah”…..it amounts to adding your own interpretations !!!!

    “We Muslims never needed any idol to concentrate. Visit any Masjid and see yourself. ”

    I know….many Hindu’s too do not use idols…..but as told to u earlier (i don’ t think u caught this earlier)…….for a Hindu….its not about using idols or not using an idol……even the ones using idols at many times worship without idols…….its just that for us WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT is how deep our worship IS !

    And I know the following statement may look like self admiration or boasting however i out this(but believe there is none intended): we idol using Hindu’s believe we do a much better deeper praying than ones who do not use idols ……Afterall the aim of praying is to attach to god (and its not a false god..i mean the creator god, the actual god) and being able to be less attached to material comforts….

    (And this is exactly what was mentioned in that BG verse I posted earlier)

  40. -Saroj
    See when you try to give your own interpretation you will find such things.

    You said :
    Where did anybody tell that Hindu’s think that the idol is god in the first place?
    In the example of the “mother’s portrait” also I tried to say the same thing
    So who was it that ever said that Hindu’s consider the idol as god?

    Response: Did you read my answer. I said still they believe THAT GOD CAN BE WORSHIPPED through idol.

    Now this medium is also included in MABOOD. MABOOD refers to IDOL or any other medium or associating any other thing.
    This is what Qur’an say. What Prophet Muhammad pbuh demonstrated. What Sahabas Recorded. What Tabeens learned. What Tibet Tabeens preached and we are witness to it.

    None of them worshipped Allah through any medium/idol. Did they???

    Because it’s clear from Qur’an.
    Now you can’t claim you understood better than them especially when Qur’an debunks it.

    In Arabic there were 2 types of idolators.
    1. Who believed God hasn’t time for us, so he had made other IDOLS for us so that they may hear what we want.
    2. Who Worshipped God through Idol.

    Qur’an debunks both.
    Weren’t all the idols broken of those who worshipped it and who worshipped through it.

    And it is clear from passages even.

  41. -Saroj

    Islam maybe…..but quran does not debunk worshipping Allah through idols……your usage of the word “Allah” itself is an idol to begin with……

    Response: It does clearly. You just need to look at it.
    L-rd doesn’t like any thing should come between his servant and him.
    I tell you to do more research.

    As for quran being against idol worship….I am not all that sure

    Response: It is. MABOOD and RUJZ both answers this Question.

    You see ….you say that the word rujza and Maboob means idol (as one amongst the meanings)…..yet when i look at translated verses, i see people interpreting it differently…..which suggests that “uncleanliness/pollution” is the original Arabic meaning….ands “idol” is at most an additional meaning…

    Response : That’s because Qur’an has verses which has more than one meaning.
    Qur’an has two types of verses
    1. Entirely clear
    2. Having multiple interpretation
    I will SHOW THAT LATER.

    As far as RUJZ

    Qur’an 74:5

    Muhsin Khan:
    And keep away from Ar-Rujz (the IDOLS )!

    Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri:
    And keep away from the IDOLS (and sins as usual).

    Bijan Moeinian:
    And avoid IDOL worshipping.

    Faridul Haque:
    And stay away from IDOLS.

    Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah:
    and flee from the STATUES!

    Muhammad Ahmed – Samira:
    And the paganism/IDOLworship/sin , so abandon.

    It is clear from the passage.

    Now multiple interpretation.

    Qur’an 3:7
    He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses – which constitute the essence of the scripture – as well as MULTIPLE-MEANING or ALLEGORICAL VERSES.

    Even PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH told about this

    Narrated Abu Huraira: “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e., the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings),and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand…

  42. -Saroj

    Narrated Abu Huraira: “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e., the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings),and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand.” Muhammad said, Jawami’-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Interpretation of Dreams, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 141)”

    So QURANIC VERSES CAN HAVE MULTIPLE INTERPRETATION.

  43. @ Jazid

    “In Arabic there were 2 types of idolators.
    1. ..
    2. …… God through Idol. ”

    God through the idol….i don’t think so……People of that time (pre-Islamic; ie prior to Muhammed, like Egyptians, pre-islamic Arabs etc) used idols and they all thought the idols they used had special powers……thats my knowledge

    But does quran actually prohibit worshipping the creator god through idols, thinking about god alone, ascribing no special power to god?

    Does quran make the distinction between these two groups at all?

    My take: Quran only uses the umbrella term “associating partners with Allah”…or “idolatory” (including your definition too) …..the rest is your interpretation

    One question then……as you yourself has agreed…there are multiple meaning for both the words…RUJZA and MABOOD….you say idol is the second meaning for both(and I think its a post-quran meaning; not original Arabic)…..and the verses using these words have been interpreted by Muslim scholars differently

    So eventhough all Muslim scholars may say that Islam is against idolatory…..not all Muslim scholars would TRANSLATE the concerned verses as being about idols

    Now shirk is the biggest sin in Islam……therefore associating partners with Allah or in your words idolatory would be the biggest sin……why is then that, quran is not overtly explicit about using idols? Why did those parts concerning idolatory somewhat “less explicit”?

    One more qn…and i will be surprised if u can answer this with clarity

    “The quran mentions about Jesus in detail and how people (wrongly) took him to be a god and all that…..NOW AT THE TIME of Muhammed, Hinduism would have been the biggest religion on the surface of the earth(if but nothing…..it should have a very sizeable population)…why is quran silent about gods in Hinduism(polytheists is a general term)?It could have said people of sanatan dharma wrongly considers krishna as god-but he is a myth!!!!…

  44. -Saroj
    1. The interpretation of word is totally correct in both senses. You can also check world’s best Arabic dictionaries to like Lisan AL Arab and it is what Qur’an tells and we believe. Scholars don’t interpret is how it like.
    2. To Check what type of idolators exist In Arabia that time you can check IBN SAD, MUSNAD IBN HANBAL, ISAAC recordings and of other’s of that time with regard to the latter.
    3. You said with regards to Jesus. And I agree that Hinduism must have atleast a great population at that time.
    First Jesus (peace be upon him) was being talked because HE WAS THE PROPHET OF GOD WHOSE FOLLOWERS MISTOOK HIM THAT HE CLAIMED DIVINITY.
    And that’s why he will come again to this earth.
    But that’s a different story.

    Regarding Hinduism :
    There are scholars of Hinduism who sat that early followers of Hinduism believed in one God and didn’t worshipped idols.
    But TO BE HONEST THESE SCHOLARS ARE IN MINORITY as most scholars claim otherwise.

    But still then there are 600+ religion’s in world who believe in idolatry. I guess number is even bigger as some worship water, fire etc also.

    So now L-rd will not mention each one of them one by one. Especially at that time there were some additional religion like BABYLONIANS.

    SO L-rd just said it is wrong and mentioned important one’s of them like
    PEOPLE OF AD, THAMUD, LUT, PEOPLE OF PHARAONS TIME whi have will teach us lessons regarding this.

    So L-rd knows what to mention and what not to.
    That’s why only main part are given.

    Like for instance, read the story of PROPHET ABHRAHAM (peace be upon him).
    You see how he made people of his time believe that idolatry is wrong.
    You can read his story in Qur’an. I request you it’s very beautiful.

  45. @Jazib:

    I knew u would use the arguemnt that the lord would not mention each religion in detail…..that is why I said Hinduism would have had a very sizeable population at that time…..Considering that Islam and Christianity spread all over the world much later……I would think that it is possible that it was even the biggest religion by sheer number at that time

    Even today….its third in size in the world….and at that time it would have to be even better placed….second or even first…..considering that other religion were pretty localised ones

    Seriously are you trying to say that people of thamud, ad or lut were larger in number than the total no:of Hindus’ at that time?

    • @jazib.
      i hv responded to your arguments on atharva veda6/77/1 issue(rishi talks of earth/heaven and then on horses) i hv seen your comments are logically flawed n have discussed that also. go read that. also i hv responded on “earth supported by bull ” issue and “earth/heaven supported by pilla acc. to Veda” issue also.
      i hv seen your claims groundless and have responed to that.

  47. I have checked. In most of the religious scriptures it is definitely written that “इश्‍वर एक है और न कोई उसका रूप है और न ही रंग वो सिर्फ प्रकाश या नूर हैा ” But it is not writtent that ” मूर्ती पूजा नहीं करनी चाहिये ” or it is crime to do idol worship.
    In Sanatan Dharma, No where it is written that you should not worship idol or symbolic worship is prohibited. It is a belief that idols or symbols are just to connect with the GOD ” ईश्‍वर तक सम्‍पर्क का जरिया है”
    Actually, most religions believe to link supreme GOD with “some kind of symbols, signs, pictures, place, direction or materialistik things” Including Muslims !!
    In fact Muslims link most strongly the symbols/signs/materials to GOD and this belief is evident in their reactions.
    Just eaxample
    > When someone made a cartoon calling it prof Mohammad, — basically it was a piece of paper and some ink, just like any other ordinary cartoon/picture. Why did all the muslims link it to true picture of prof.Mohammad. If muslims truely believe in no picture/no symbol of GOD/or prof Mohammad. The whole community of muslims should have ignored it, terming it as just some other picture or ordinary cartoon.
    > Just because some stupid fellow called a cartoon as prof Mohammad, everyone believed it and jumped on reacting as if it was true picture of prof Mohammad !!
    > If Muslims don’t believe in symbolic worship, then why were they so religiously offended? They should infact say that no one can make true picture of Prof Mohammad, So there is no need to get offended.
    Therefore Muslims are strong believer of symbolic worship and they link it to religious feeling immediately.

  48. -Saroj
    I already debunked You’r argument, go and see.

    And do you have any Google+ account.
    If you have please tell me.

    -Jyotish Vijay

    How do you know Hinduism was 2nd or 1st at that time.

    India population 2011 census (121 crore)
    AND all 121 crore people are not Hindus.

    Let’s see previous
    100 crore (2001 census)
    81 crore (1991 census)
    64 crore (1981 census)
    49 crore (1971 census)

    See we roughly became 1/3 of current population by just moving 45 year’s back.

    If we took same average(keeping in mind all Indians are not hindus)
    We reach Indian population before 1400 year’s to be
    1-2 LAKH PEOPLE
    Maybe 1 LAKH OF THEM WOULD BE HINDUS

    And I don’t understand why L-rd should mention people by seeing number of adherents first.
    Although it’s quite possible that there number would have been greater than Hindus.
    But it doesn’t matter.

    And story of Thamud , Ad and Lut could have also been mentioned because L-rd destroyed their entire nation.

    Even archaeological evidences agree that there existed some people Like Ad and Thamud.
    They even found Noah’s arc and they completely agree that there was a Universal flood which has came a long ago.

    Pharoun, Now this guy claimed to be God and was of King of Egypt of time.

    When he died he was buried but the LAND THROW HIM OUT OF IT.
    HE was burnt but fire THROW HIM OUT.
    He was thrown in WATER BUT WATER RETURNED HIM BACK.

    And his body thereafter was lost.

    Allah (swt) mentioned that his body will be found and today we have his body. It’s in a museum, I guess I Egypt and if you see video’s on you tube.
    You will see even today his nails grow etc etc( punishment from the L-rd)

    AND L-rd made him a sign till the day of judgement for those who rejects the signs of Most Merciful, Exalted in Might, The All Powerful.

    So as I already said L-rd knows what to mention and what not to.

    Story of Pharoun is also mentioned in Bible but Bible doesn’t…

      • i think i have you:
        [email protected]

        “In India, we see the beginning of theoretical speculation of the size and nature of the earth. Some one thousand years before Aristotle, the Vedic Aryans asserted that the earth was round and circled the sun. A translation of the Rig Veda goes: ” In the prescribed daily prayers to the Sun we find..the Sun is at the center of the solar system. ..The student ask, “What is the nature of the entity that holds the Earth? The teacher answers, “Rishi Vatsa holds the view that the Earth is held in space by the Sun.” – Dick Teresi in Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science–from the Babylonians to the Maya pages 238-239

        “The Sun does never set nor rise. When people think the Sun is setting (it is not so). For after having arrived at the end of the day it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making night to what is below and day to what is on the other side…Having reached the end of the night, it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making day to what is below and night to what is on the other side. In fact, the Sun never sets….”- Aitareya Brahmana (3.44). This shows that the earth is spherical. Source: Hindu Wisdom – Advanced_Concepts

        Carl Sagan on Hindu Cosmology:

        “The Hindu religion is the only one of the world’s great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths… It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, no doubt by accident, to those of modern scientific cosmology

    • @Jazib
      regarding number of Hindu’s at the time of quran
      Response: as of today the number of Hindu’s in the world is about 16% of world population…the ones in front are islam and christianity

      Christinaity spread throughout the world in two stages….first was within Europe (roughly from 5th century to 15 th century)….and to the rest of the world after that

      So, it would not take too much maths to deduce that the proprtion of Hindu’s at the time of quran had to be even higher than 16% and with islam being out of the picture, and people following multiple small small religions , hinduism or sanatan dharma should have occupied the second place…..if we consider the fact that christianity spread throughout the world much later…..i would not be surprised if hinduism was indeed the biggest religion at that time

      Its not only quran….but previous abrahamic scriptures like Torah,Zabur , BIBLE etc too are mum about Hinduism or other eastern religions !!!

      Quran too like these other books speaks about the same prophets, same incidents and same people albeit in a different angle……Anyone who puts a thought into these things can understand the implications……i don’t want to state it explicitly……because those statements will be subjected to my prejudices…..so let others draw implications from these facts…i just want to point out one important implication though:

      “Given that the quran and bible being totally silent about hinduism and their gods(whereas quran is not silent about most incidents in other abrahamic religions), and then to then infer that the lord made a book for us revealed in a faraway country in which there is absolutely nothing about us (or any of the eastern religions for that matter) is totally nonsense”

      Hindu’s philosophy on the other hand offers methods to reoncile with other religions though….so we don’t need to be confused…..but to think that lords wants us to change despite our reconciliating philosphies…

  49. -bbc

    I honestly don’t know what basically Hinduism say about idols because when I saw Purana, there th permission is given.
    But I based my arguments on DAYANANDs view. Maybe he made mistake.

    But as far as Qur’an is concerned it’s against idol worshiping.

    Same case is with Torah and Bible.
    I know these books, they even go onto extent of saying that broke their idols and don’t eat from the hand’s of those who practice it.

    As far as you’re Question regarding Charlie Hebdo and why Muslims became angry.

    Look first of all he tried to insult our beloved prophet and he wrote in captions below as I have heard THE FUN HAD JUST STARTED.

    Now we will not negotiate this.
    You know there was a guy, I am ashamed to say, he made nude picture of LAKSHMI, now it’s totally disgusting.
    Why should anyone interfere in our religion, why insult?

    If we leave him like that tomorrow many multiple people will do same and perhaps more than this.

    Now we know that cartoon was not the picture of PROPHET Muhammad peace be upon him.
    No one has his picture.

    We only know from different people’s, narrator’s, even pagans of that time via record’s how he looked.

    And go and check there was no one whose physical beauty could be compared with the beauty of the Noble Messenger. No one!

    Anyway that’s not the topic here.

    He went against our religion and that’s something regarding which was won’t remain silent.

  50. -rajk.hyd

    Pehle to mujhe ye Brae ki mujhe unka Naam kyu pta hona ZAROORI HAI.

    Kya mera unse koi lena Dena hai.

    Unko unki ummat Jane.

    Tum apne 33 crore Devon mei sirf 0.01% ke Naam yane 33000 ke Naam bataw.
    Tumhe pta hona to ZAROORI hai.

    Dekho
    Lakshmi
    Paise ke liye

    Kali mata
    Reham k liye

    Ganpati
    Luxory k liye

    Aise 33000 tum ko pta hona ZAROORI hai.

    Mujhe SAB nabiyyon ke nhi tumhe apne Devon k Naam pta hona chahiye.

    Farzi ISHWAR NE AGAR SIRF VED bhejhi to iska maloom hona aur Duniya k Har kisi java SHRUWAT SE HO NA ZAROORI THA.

    Magar aisa nhi. Baat to itni gambir hai ki ved HINDUSTAN se bhar bhi nhi Nikla.

    Aur 99% hinduwon ko hi ilm nhi. Qur’an muqadas ki baat to door hai. Muhammad Har di nimaaz mei 5 baar padhte hai.

    Isse pta chalta hai ki ISHWAR ki taraf se hai na ki KHUDA KI TARAF SE, warna ye Har khi hona chahiye tha.

    Chalo aek aur baat
    KHUda to 7th asman pe hai( pakeeza jagah par, apne layak)

    Kya Farzi ISHWAR Har kisi jagah hai.
    Agar aisa hai to
    Kya wo
    SHOCHALE
    BALATKARI
    Kuda karkat
    Choor mei bi hai.

    Aur agar nhi to kya ved ki Tarah hindustan mei kahi hcupa huwa hai kya.

    Ye SAB hindu delta hindustan mei hi sirf aaye.
    Lagta hai unke pass visa nhi tha.

    Aur Ab kahan hai wo
    Kya chutiya manane gaye hai???

    Lyhaza tameez se baat kare

    • 1. God in islam lives in jannat ;sits in a throne above 7 heavens. while Hindus believe God is present everywhere omnipresent both microcosm and macrocosm. God is beyond space time

      Having said this, Vedanta also says universe is illusion. soul of humans (jiva) =soul of paramatma (soul of Vishnu,Durga or shiva) = ParaBrahmam(GOD). it is similar to holy spirit concept in X’tianity

      so idols have Dugra,Vishnu,Shiva not Brahmam…Brahmam is everywhere ; not just in idols.

      Using maya(illusion) or prakriti (nature) God assumes many forms.

      Now you cannot see Allah per islam,but you can talk to him. Allah spake with Moses (Musanabi) LOL

      Mere lip service is enough in islam..just says Allah I thank you for giving me life… Say Allah I worship thee creater of worlds. No need to concentrate on GOD. you can’t concentrate on Brahmam. I mean unrealized souls like us …So you need to worship Shiva, Vishnu, Durga

      Now islam says soul is born when you are born (say april 3 2001) but soul will not die and stays in hell forever (for hindus only LOL)

      my question is if there is birth then there is death….think through….. our soul has no death or birth.

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