GiveAahuti

UPI - agniveerupi@sbi, agniveer.eazypay@icici
PayPal - [email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

GiveAahuti

UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

PayPal
[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

HomeMyth Busters

In Defense of Idol Worship

Agniveer
By Agniveer
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

This entry is part [part not set] of 2 in the series Idol Worship

Idol Worship

People hate idol-worship for a variety of reasons. Some cults hate idol-worshippers so much that they would refuse to bless even a dead idol-worshipper. They believe that idol-worship is worse than killing and rape.

Let us examine the most dominant ones.

1. God has no idols. Hence idol-worship is a sin

– How are you so sure that God has no idols? Did God come and tell you? When, where? Do you have any video recording of the meeting? Or any other proof?

– I am sure you can’t answer above. Because apart from mental asylums, there are no other places in world where you would find people who have met God.

– Let us assume for a while that you are one of those rare mental cases who met God and verified His “non-idolness”. Did He then make you an Authorized Agent to snatch peace and happiness from lives of those who worship His idols? Can you show the exclusive Authorization Certificate that God gave you?

– Let us now assume further that despite you having never met God nor he sending you the Authorized Agent Certificate by courier, still idol-worship is sin. Then who is forcing you to worship idol? Worship whatever you want. Or don’t worship at all. Who is stopping you? But what right you have to hate others for what they believe?

Hate God if you indeed have to hate. He is to be blamed for not meeting you. Or hate the courier company which did not deliver your Authorization Certificate.

Don’t act like frustrated ’potency doctors’ whose 100% guarantee advertisements add to the filth of dirty walls before railway stations and public toilets of Ghaziabad. And yet fetches them no clients.

Follow whatever you want to. Even advertise whatever you want to. But don’t hate people merely because they don’t hire your potency services.

2. But my Holy Book prohibits idol-worship. It says idol-worshippers are worst of creatures.

This raises many questions that you must answer.

– How do you know the book is indeed Holy? Did God come and tell you? Or it was some ‘potency doctor’ of Ghaziabad? Different parts of world have different popular ‘Holy Books’. How do you know yours alone is the right one?

– Did you read the ‘Holy Book’ yourself? Most ‘Holy Books’ are at least a thousand years old. The language is completely different from modern times. So people rely on translations. Who translated the book for you? Was it the ‘potency doctor’ or someone with a sharper mental aptitude? Is there a way for you to verify whether the translation is authentic? And whether the translation is exactly of the authentic Holy Book alone and not something else? Don’t simply accept it on basis of what the ‘potency doctor’ or his clients say.

If there is no clear foolproof easy way for any layman to verify the authenticity of Holy Book or its translation, it only means that God does not give the Holy Book too much of importance. So use it with a pinch of salt. Accept the fact that this is the way God wanted things to be.

– Your ‘potency doctor’ may fool you by claiming that this confusion is because God is testing your loyalty. If he indeed says so, better find a different doctor than risk your potency on such a quack.

Because, if indeed God is intelligent, He will give same test to all, and also define the syllabus of test before conducting the test. Ask your doctor to give a certified instruction-sheet for the test. I bet He will only try to scare you with divine punishments or entice you with luxuries. That is the tried and tested “carrot and stick” formula to control animals. Beware.

Use you head rather than take seriously unverified ‘potency’ claims of quacks. Follow your Holy Book or any book or their translations only to extent or in manner that it supports your own brain development. Or have fun as story books, moral science books, fantasy tales or insight in historical evolution of human intellect or something else. Don’t take it seriously enough to start hating everyone who is not client of your Ghaziabad doctor.

– If indeed idol-worshippers are worst of creatures, why did God make them in first place? Why did not God send everyone with entire Holy Book already etched in their brains?

– Is your Holy Book against your own progress? Why majority of intellectuals in world are idol-worshippers? They go to either church or temples and do what is idol-worship as per your book. And yet they are the ones who top in almost every field – science, technology, mathematics, management, economics…you name it. If you are reading your Holy Book, probably it was printed using a technology that was developed by a worshipper of Son of God. If you are using a gun to kill innocents, even that was developed by idol-worshipper. If you happen to be in India, know that almost every top-brain of the country has been either an idol-worshipper or someone who loves them.

Now look at contribution of idol-haters from your community? Don’t give names from history. Past is always beautiful because it is an easy escape that cannot be verified. Lets talk of present. How many top scientists hate idols? How many top technology wizards? How many economists, inventors, doctors, mathematicians, chess players?

Just think if you can. Your hatred against idol-worshippers is stopping you from progress and  ruining your future.

3. You Holy Book also prohibits idol-worship. Why do you do that then?

If you are talking of Hindus, let me put very clear. Hinduism is not a religion based on fear of Hell or fondness of Heaven. It is a celebration of freedom. It encourages each individual to explore and choose his own path. Because eventually, each individual is master of his own destiny.

– Yes there are many books and saints that criticize idol-worship. But none asks to kill those who do idol-worship. They simply put forward their own critique on the subject and offer alternatives. It is all an intellectual discussion to discover the ultimate truth. There is no threat or lure. It all falls under the Hindu respect for freedom of expression.

That is why Kabir, Dayanand, Nanak, Shankaracharya, Madhavacharya, Ramanuja, Vivekanand etc are all within the Hindu universe despite their difference in viewpoints.

– More importantly, no Hindu worships idol in the way morons believe them to worship. They merely use idols as means for a higher goal. When they pray even in front of idol, they close their eyes and look inwards. The Hindu God lies within each individual. Ultimate goal is to be completely at bliss with the divinity within. Different people adopt different ways to pull their thoughts inwards. To create idols is one of them.

– Vedas form primary source of Hinduism. They neither prohibit nor recommend specific rituals to please God. They discuss the concepts alone and leave it to individual to discover the truth through his own efforts. There is no force, fear, threat, lure here.

– You are free to either go to temples, pray through idols, or meditate on formless God, or be atheist. You can recommend your own best practices and strongly oppose prevalent ways of society. There is complete freedom. Nothing is mandatory. Everything is a recommendation. That is why Hinduism is most rational and reasonable way of life.

There is no burqa, no restriction on how you dress, how you pray, what you study, whom you marry. You celebrate freedom and be responsible for society.

But there is a big irony. Answer that first:

On one hand you say your book is right and mine is wrong. On other hand you quote my book to prove that your way is right. Why this double standard? Either accept that my books is right. In that case follow it. Else don’t quote it.

If you quote my books to justify why I must be hated and I must go to Hell, it demonstrates that the potency doctor’s medicine has had serious impact on your brain.

4. Idol-worship caused downfall of India. Hence it must be rejected.

– Downfall of India happened because of several reasons. Here are top 3:

No 3. Dominance of caste-system based on birth.

But due to core liberal nature of Hinduism, reformers like Dayanand, Jyotirba Phule etc emerged to weed it out.

No 2. Rise of superstitions

which was again eradicated by spiritual reformers.

But the most important reason was following:

NUMBER 1. Unpreparedness against barbaric tribals of Central and West Asia.

Indians had not imagined that people could be so barbaric as the likes of Ghazni, Ghori, Akbar, Aurangzeb, Qasim and Khilji. In India, even wars had basic rules of ethics. Even today, Indians are unable to imagine that rascals like ISIS, Al Qaeda actually exist. They read in newspapers and see in TV. But cannot feel the same. Hence they remained unprepared.

But the moment a Rana Pratap or a Shivaji or a Guru Gobind felt the extent of their barbarism, they destroyed the roots of iconoclastic fundamentalism with slogans of Har Har Mahadev, Jai Bhawani, Jo Bole So Nihaal. When British came, slogan of Vande Mataram played its role. The might of idol-worshipping heroes ripped apart the idol-breakers so forcefully that the last Mughal emperors were just pensioners of Marathas caged inside Red Fort. Today the descendants of “Great Mughals” are reduced to beggars in slums of Kolkata.

The proud heritage of India was preserved by the very idol-worshippers whom you hate. And even today, look at the community of idol-worshippers and those who consider idol-worshippers as sinner. Find out what percentage of their population is among top brains in each group? Again, avoid looking into history because history is always golden. Come to present.

How many idol-haters among brave soldiers who fight on border willing to sacrifice their heads to protect all of us inside the country? How many idol-haters among scientists, engineers, technocrats, researchers? There is representation from all communities in progress of modern India. But a common trait among all who contributed to this progress is that they have no hatred for idol-worshippers. In fact they encourage and even themselves worship like idol-worshippers. The great Hawaldar Abdul Hamid sent to Hell tanks after tanks of idol-haters. Martyr Ashfaqullah would say Ram Ram even when unconscious.

I shudder to imagine what will happen if idol-worship is eradicated from modern India. We will lose our colors, variety, richness. We will lose centers that preserve spiritualism and direct our emotions to higher cause. We will lose social ways of uniting and canvassing against forces of terror. Temples have served and continue to serve a critical role for the society – right from preservation of Vedic heritage to charitable activities.

Yes, the form must evolve. Given the current threats of terror, our temples must become agents for destruction of hatred. They must become institutions of social equality. We must bring out Hanuman, Durga, Ram and Krishna from temples into our own actions. And fight terror till its complete annihilation. We must use every festival, every social ritual, every puja to remind and prepare ourselves for the call of the time.

An appeal to Indian Muslims

The bonds of culture are stronger than bonds of religion. You are Muslims. But you are Indians first. You are so different from the Muslims of Arab. In fact they hate you for this and refuse to even consider you as true Muslims. They refuse to make you Ulema in any center of importance for entire Muslim world. They will not even make you citizens of their country. They will not marry their daughters to you despite all the hype about equality in Islamic world.

ISIS talks loud about Islamic Caliphate. But an Indian recruit was given task to cleaning toilet. If you even mention that Indian must be Caliphate, they will kill you. Such are the mad ways of those who go to quacks for potency treatment.

But you must be proud of your unique gift of being Indian. Irrespective of your religion, you also carry the heritage of Ram, Krishna, Pratap and Shivaji. So don’t fall in trap of hating Hindus as idol-worshippers. Unite with majority population. Be one with them. Take part in their festivals and worships. Don’t be fooled by what few witchdoctors want you to believe in.

If idol-worship was such a sin, and your way was best, then idol-worshippers would have been in misery and you would have been most affluent in India. But opposite is true. Which means that you made a big blunder by hating idol-worship and idol-worshippers.

Follow whatever you want to. But throw away any book, any witchdoctor, any hint that asks you to hate idol-worship and idol-worshippers. The day you will happily announce that idol-worshippers will sit next to you in Heaven, that day even this life itself will become Heaven for you.

See the world around you. People are killing and giving bad name to Islam. Just condemning them is not enough. You must stand up and openly announce that you refuse to hate idol-worshippers. Stand up and participate in Ganesh Puja and Diwali. Invite Hindus to celebrate Eid with you.

Rise above the form. Follow the essence. The hatred against idol-worship has no basis whatsoever. It only leads you to greater and greater downfall.

We welcome you with open arms. Lets join hands and give a death blow to those who sell terror in name of religion.

– Agniveer (committed to defense of idol-worshippers, Kafirs and disbelievers of world)

[mybooktable book=”great-rulers-india” display=”summary” buybutton_shadowbox=”true”]

Series Navigation
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

Previous article
I Worship Idols
Next article
Why beef-lovers are completely wrong?
Agniveer
Agniveer
Vedic Dharma, honest history, genuine human rights, impactful life hacks, honest social change, fight against terror, and sincere humanism.

235 COMMENTS

  1. “.. Even today, Indians are unable to imagine that rascals like ISIS, Al Qaeda actually exist. They read in newspapers and see in TV. But cannot feel the same. Hence they remained unprepared. …”

    So True! We must jerk-shake our head to try to realize the ground realities, rather than proceeding wishfully all the time .

    • “.. Given the current threats of terror, our temples must become agents for destruction of hatred. They must become institutions of social equality. We must bring out Hanuman, Durga, Ram and Krishna from temples into our own actions. And fight terror till its complete annihilation. ..”

      Great thought! This must be done. Hope this starts asap

    • Sanjeev,

      This is best Article in ln last 5 yrs, Now Arta Samaj will hate you and you are writing against Dayanand and Vedas. Arya Samaj is against idol worship and actually disluke Hindus.

      What will you say now..they will remove you

      • No I don’t think that’s possible…….because what he said is in agreement with Vedas and the rest are just the interpretations of swami Dayanand and the Arya Samaj whereas others have held opposing views !!

      • Hi,

        NO, what he said is against Vedas and arya Samaj concept. He will be debarred from Arya Samaj, you can already see facebook and other websites where he is debarred.

      • Dear Shri Aryaveer ji….
        Namaste…..
        Pahli baat to ye hai ki mai Agniveer ji ka prashanshak hu…
        Cause I believe on him…
        What he says is with his knowledge….
        I don’t care if you are against worshipping Idol….
        But I want to tell you from my senses….
        Pahli baat to ye apki sahi hai ki Vedas nhi kahte hai ki Idol worshipping karna chahiye….
        Lekin Jab ap dhyaan se sochenge to apko Samajh me aayega ki yet Idol worshipping is not bad or sin.
        Kyuki Ham Ishwar ki worship nhi karte hai us samay….
        We basically worship Devi and Devta and Not Ishwar……
        To muje jaha tak lagta hai ya pata hai Wo ye hai ki Ishwar is formless and all…
        Aur ek baat ham jab kabhi bhi mandir me jaate hai…
        To Pahli baat ye hai ki ham apni AANKHE band karke Prayer karte hai na ki Idols ko dekh kar…
        IS tarah ham waha jaa kar b Usi Ishwar ki hi bhakti karte hai….
        To muje nhi lagta ki there is anything bad….
        Because as rigveda says they call him/Her By Various names but the truth is one…
        To koi b manushya use bhale hi kisi b naam se pukaare uski prarthna to Ishwar ki Karta hai Kyuki wo Aankhe khuli nhi rakhta….
        To is tarah se wo prayer Ishwar ki hi karta hai….
        Kripa kar ke mere is tark par apni Pratikriya de…..
        Kyuki mai b Idol worshipper hu…
        Aur mai ise bilkul galat nhi samajhta hu….
        And please, Whatever Agniveer ji Do…
        Let him Do….
        Thanking you. ..Please reply ASAP

  2. Condemnation of hate towards idol-worshipers is welcome.

    But defense of idol-worship is not ok.

    Intellectual power should not be used in this fashion in defending superstitious belief.

    Bhavesh Merja

    • Thats purely your opinion unsupported by the Vedas…infact Vedas support the idea of a god with a body and without a body at the same time

      People tend to project only the “bodyless” concept because of their inadequate knowledge….god being god can exist in a form with body and can also remain transcendent (bodyless)

      People who are foolish tend to degrade me when I chose to present myself as an avatar (BG)

      That statement is so apt here……Now I have said that all philosophical…

    • @Bhavesh Merja

      Someone arguing on God and Her swaroop in the middle of the battlefield is a fool. ISIS, Boko, Al Qaeda, LeT, SIMI, IM have declared an open war against idolaters of India. Either stand in defense of your people or run away from battlefield like cowards. Choice is yours.

      • namaste vajra brother

        m ur big fan… d way u rply others is appreciable… whenevr i go through comment section of any article in dat site… i always read ua cmmnt first… really u r awesome 🙂

      • @Vajra

        You do deserve this love, but yes, Agniveer, through her efforts helped unravel, what otherwise would have taken us atleast several births to realise on our own !

      • @Vajra

        [correction]
        You do deserve this love, but yes, Agniveer, through her efforts is letting* unravel, what otherwise would be taking* us atleast several births to realise on our own.

      • @Vajra

        welcum brother… nd yes agniveer deserves a lot of respect…. it has been a long time to see ua cmmnts in dat site nd as u posted ua cmmnts, i really feel happy… may b this is respect fr u frm my side

        You, indian Agnostic and nd many others also contribute alot in agniveer site.. 🙂

      • I fail to understand how defending idol worship on such fake arguments will help fight terrorism.

        In fact Sri Agniveer has shifted from Vedic path to popular Hinduism – reasons I don’t know.

        Still I know that he is well aware of the realities of the idol worship.

        Bhavesh Merja

      • @Bhavesh

        1. Arguments given in defense dont become fake, just because you dont agree with them, or are not willing to understanding them.

        2. Terrorists before blowing off innocents, dont sit and evaluate which way of worship is more logical. They are all brainwashed into believing that idol worshipers are worst of sinners, and by killing them, door to paradise(with 72 virgins) opens.

      • …..
        3. If you are able to understand this, good.

        But if you’re still not willing enough, to try and understand why innocents must be defended, then I would go to the extent of saying that, you’re no better than the Jihadis, who consider anyone and everyone not believing in their ‘holy’ ideology, as Kafirs(worst of creatures = worthy of death only) !

      • @Bhavesh

        I apologize for the inappropriate tone in previous comment. But dont you see, that there remains little difference between a jihadi fanatic and a Dayanand devotee, if latter treats with indifference, lives of those innocents who dont believe in same ideology ?

      • @ Wannabe

        I appreciate your stand…u r 100% correct.

        And the thing Bhavesh would like to project “idol worship is against Vedas” is also not correct

        I did try to engage in a scripture based dialogue and has produced Verses from Vedas in support of ishwar having a body

        This Bhavesh is probably not equipped to deal with Veda based arguments…..and hence has opted to reply to your logic…..simply by calling it “fake”

      • I am not a “Dayananda devotee”. I am a member of Arya Samaj. Refutation of idol worship is one of the missions Arya Samaj stands for. We criticize idol worship because we consider it one of the grossest superstitions or blind faiths. We criticize idol worship as our duty, not because we have any ill feeling towards any body.
        Bhavesh Merja

    • adarniy shri vijay kumar ji jab ap svayam yah svikar kar rahe hai ki murti ke samne ankh band kar lete hai t ab us murti ke samn e bhi jane ki jarurat hi kya hai yah kary to ap kisi bhi shanti sthal ghar adi me bhi kar sakte hai murti ki jarurat hi kya hai ?

      • @ raj.hyd
        Bro….
        What you are saying is true and no doubt in that…
        I am not arguing with you bro….
        But just think for once….
        If our parents taught us anything we all should follow….
        Because they taught me to hatred any other religion….
        And again vedas never say that this is sin.
        I am just saying, there is nothing bad in this world by that time if you are not following anything blindly.
        As far as my concern….
        From past 3 months I am reading articles of Shri agniveer ji.
        And comments made by you, Vajra and all.
        I am glad to be in touch with you all.
        And if Agniveer ji is saying then we should believe that there is nothing bad.
        And even you know we don’t go in temple to get knowledge for hating any other religion.
        And there is also Krishna, Ram, Shivaji Maharaja and all….
        And yes Bro…
        We can worship him from any place….
        I know.
        Thanks for commenting.

      • adarniy shri vijay ji , bahut si bate aur kary pidhiyo se galat chal rahe hai isliye sudharatmak dishay e chunni hoti hai ! apko hamare vichaar achhe lage uske liye aap ka kotish :dhayvaad

      • Ji Haa ,
        Avashya….
        Shri Raj ji….
        Apne jo kuch b kaha hai wo satya hai kintu dhyaan se aur badi samajhdari se ap logo ko sahi siksha de.
        Mai yahi kahunga apse ki Agniveer ji se muje bahut saari baate sikhane mila…
        Agniveer ji ke lekh vastutah unhi vishayo par hai Jis prashno me mai b sarvda Dusro se sunata tha jo hamare dharm par ungli uthate the.
        Aur Ap logo ka tark karna atyant saraahaniy hai….
        Ap logo ka gyaan na hi apne dharam me hai kintu Dusre dharmo me b hai….
        Muje b ap logo k vicharo se sabhi dharamo k baare me kuchh na kuchh pata chala….
        Maine abhi tak k lagbhag saare vishay padh liye hai Agniveer ji k…
        Saare ati uttam hai…
        Aur Ap logo k vicharo use sada kathorata pradan karte hai….
        Isiliye ap sabhi ko b dhanyawaad….

  3. from BG has a base in the Vedas…..For me BG is enough……for the rest I am posting verses from Vedas:

    Agne TanuH Asi | Vishnve Tva Somasya Tanur’ Asi (Yaj 1..15)
    (That Eternal Purush has a body for nurturing everyone i.e. when God, comes as a guest in this world for some time to explain Tattavgyan to His devotees, He comes by wearing a body of lighter masses of lights over His actual effulgent body

    Reposting another verse
    dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe, mūrtaṃ caivāmūrtaṃ ca [Brh. Up – 2.3…

    • God being Omni-present can not come or go. He cannot and does not move.

      The purport of the Veda mantra is to be understood properly. Kindly see Dayananda’s Yajurveda Bhashya.

      Statement of Brihad-aaranyaka is already clarified in the earlier topic. “Brahma” word used in this is a common noun of 5 Mahaa-bhootas; not for God.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • Why do u keep referring back to Dayanand Saraswati. Not everybody is a fan of DS and he is not the only one that understands Vedic Sanskrit?

        Kindly defer from quoting DS…..he is not a adequte replacement for Vedas

        You can do what u want…..and be against Veda’s too if u want…..not me

        God doesn’t come and go?
        Who are u to DECIDE what GOD can or cannot do….SIMPLE

        And the word used in the verse is “Brahman” not “Brahma:. Brahman is the term used to depict god in a formless…

      • You maybe a Arya samaj member….do what U have to do

        But I am a human being and I believe its my duty not to make the general public (illiterate about our scripture) get the idea that Vedas are against idol worship

        1)Nowhere in Vedas idol worship is even mentioned. The idea that Vedas are agianst idol worship is an INTERPRETATION of Arya Samaj from the Vedas. Most others have had different INTERPRETATIONS

        2)What is NOT an interpretation is that Vedas do take about the body of god

  4. Who says that Muslims don’t worship idols? What’s Kaba or Maqam Ibrahim or Hajje Aswad? Don’t Muslims pray five times facing these icons? Imagine Muslims praying five times a day for their entire life! Don’t their forehead show the brown dot that shows that every Muslim bows against these Islamic icons but unconsciously. What’s Tawaf (circumambulation around Kaba) in Mecca? Each Mosque in itself is an icon in strict sense. Icon simply means a “visible symbol”.

  5. @jyothish
    1. I dont wanna be in dream state while in battle-field, I wanna first ruthlessly destroy the enemy. This is not a debate on Nature of Ishwar, understand this. Wait till the battle is over, and monsters are no more. Or fight alongside if you desire. Victorious, we will enjoy debating and discussing philosophy. Till then, let hone the weapons, condition the mind-body, shouting war cry ‘jaYa agNi veeRA’, destroy enemies, be victorious, and then rest and celebrate(n prepare…

    • ..again).
      I consider Ishwar to be a conscious entity beyond form/formlessness, an enforcer of law of Karma, something within-outside,a wise friend,a mentor,revealing His presence through this creation,and through inherent wealth of all souls around,how all are grouped in together to assist(or disturb)each other while journeying,and how they together win the battles, cross the turbulent rivers..but hey..wait..no philosophy yet.No dreaming yet,except for dream of non-fanatic,strong,loving world !

      • Not against idol worship. Almost everyone does it one way or another. All associate with some symbol to re-enforce some message/purpose/concept while functioning. Soldiers do Shastra Puja. Every one remember, through mental images, there teachers/ parents/ mentors/ loved ones while toiling towards goals, going through discomforts, taking risks, trying to focus on present tasks, people visualize there sources of inspiration, purpose etc. They keep images of such symbols close to them. ..

      • This is what symbols can help achieve.Focusing/visualizing upon a mentor’s way of functioning, while doing Abhyaas/practice is a technique mentioned in YogaDarshan. Idols may help achieve the same for individuals, based on their experiences and intellect.

        And if such a basic level of intellect,as a result of proper life experiences is missing,then any and every form of worship can bring in superstitious mindset in a person, not just idol-worshiping! Proper learning environment is more…

  6. @Bhavesh

    ——-Refutation of idol worship is one of the missions Arya Samaj stands for.——–

    Now that makes you a psychopath if you do so. Why is the refutation of someone’s harmless personal beliefs is on top of your agenda? You mean to say that had Shivaji and Pratap been alive today, you would have been refuting them because they both were staunch idolaters! Can there be a bigger dumbness?

    • Maharana Pratap and Chhatrapati Shivaji – both were truly great sons of India.
      We are proud of them.
      They were great because they did certain great deeds and scarifies.
      But how can one relate their greatness with their being idolators?
      Idolatry is to be judged based on scriptural evidences and reasoning.
      Bhavesh Merja

      • Have you even read the scriptures in entirety? Or you are basing yourself on some translations? What proof you have that your scriptures are authentic? If idol worship is so bad, why Arya Samajis who are against idol-worship and follow so-called Vedic way of living so mediocre in every field and busy fighting court cases against each other? Why God has kept Arya Samaj such a dismal failure like Muslim jihadis – your exclusive partners in opposing idol-worship? Face the truth with humility.

      • Shivaji and Rana Pratap were great despite their idol worship. So why should we not follow them? Name one single warrior like Shivaji or Rana Pratap hailing from Arya Samaj? Among lakhs of Arya Samajis today, why there is not one single example that is even close to Shivaji and Pratap? As for idol-worshippers, almost entire Indian army is filled with them. Read the article again. It is for Arya Samajis also. Realize that if God wanted to be against idol-worship, he would have himself stopped it.

      • Amit,

        Not sure why you are getting so angry. Whether it is Arya Samaj or Ayya Vazhi or Yogi that doesn’t support idol worship, the fact remains, none of them believe in forcing an idol worshiper to stop worshiping idols. We can only convince through words. And also keep in mind we do not believe you will go to hell for it. We don’t think there is even a hell. We do believe you will not achieve Moksha if you divert yourself via of idol worship. It will keep you in Karma based reincarnation.

        We also believe we can learn from each other in other areas. Please don’t get mad…

      • Dear Sri Krishna Rao, I have nothing against those who do not believe in idol-worship. But when some people like Sri Bhavesh start taunting others by announcing that “refutation of idol worship is a mission of Arya Samaj” and asking others to have “sincerity and courage to see truth face to face”, they also deserve taste of their own medicine. They are no different from Jihadis who claim to have exclusive access to truth and pity others. Instead of working for unity of Hindus, they try to demoralize as if serving mission of Dayanand. First reach level of Dayanand and then question others.

  7. @Bhavesh “…We criticize idol worship because we consider it one of the grossest superstitions or blind faiths. We criticize idol worship as our duty, not because we have any ill feeling towards any body…”

    Maybe theres no ill-feeling, but theres definitely a lack of Bhavna/feeling of ‘Sarve-Bhavantu-Sukhinah’. If criticism of benign personal affairs of others is still a priority today, when lives of innocents are at stake, then I think we have found the new existing ‘grossest…

  8. Even if there were no verses which talk about the sakar apsect of Brahman……..even then, it would be wrong to assume that Vedas are against “idol worship”……..because you are simply “inserting” words into the Vedas by doing so

    I for that matter is not saying that Vedas support “idol worship”…….even inspite of verses about body of Brahman.

    My viewpoint is that given the concept behind idols in Hinduism, it seems OK

  9. Finally if u r to pray, the concept of praying to a formless god is foolish and impractical….everything becomes an idol then…..everyone become an idol worshippper

    1)Even if u pray simply (not in front of an idol)…..any image you form in your mind becomes an idol, so does any sound u recitate…..even a vaccuum becomes an idol

    2)Even thinking of the sound “God: is a symbol……because god is just an english word…..and ishwar is just a Sanskrit/Hindi word….that too is an idol

  10. If thats so……its foolish to say a formless omnipotent god would take offense of idol worship

    If anything a devout idol worshipper is far far better than an Arya Samaj memeber who do not even know to pray properly

    You can keep your ideas…..but your foundations are weak……indulge with any true Vedic scholar…….you will get the explanatins

    Once done you will realise…the final endpoint is not the “path”…..not at all ……bit its your effort in whichever path u truthfully…

  11. I plan to state my part as well. And I will. Just been a little busy, but I will. But enjoyed reading everyone’s point of view on here.

  12. Different people may have different opinions about the nature of God. Which way a person worship his god is not so important as becoming a good human. Here Agniveer is not forcing others for idol worship. But nobody has the right to persecute idol worshippers. God has not given anybody the authority to decide how everyone would worship him.

    There is a lot of propaganda by anti Hindus regarding idols worship of Hindus. Fact is that Hindus worship Ishwar and his different aspects and not idols.

    • If idols are not worshipped, why they are made, installed in places known as temple, etc. and decorated?

      Let us have sincerity and courage to see truth face to face.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • Why is that people apply agarbatti, flowers in front of plain paper and its casing……called as a photo…..belonging to someone u care about?

        When u apply flowers……do anybody think that the paper in front of them is actually their father…..NO…..but then why do it?

        Its called a symbolic gesture……similarly idol worship is also something of that sort…….is it so hard to understand????

      • Why do Arya Samajis do Hawan with Hawan Samagri of MDH etc? Where is such Hawan Samagri mentioned in Vedas? Which chapter and verse? Why you hype about Satyarth Prakash despite not having guts to encourage widows and widowers in your family to perform Niyog with ten people? Why don’t you invite Sanyasis of Arya Samaj to have Niyog with widows in your family when you give examples of Ved Vyas and your Satyarth Prakash clearly says that Arya must do Niyog and not remarry?

      • This is called ‘Vishayaantar’ means shifting the point of discussion.

        For Niyog, kindly read the concerned chapter one again with open mind.

        Bhavesh

      • WHy? Only Arya Samajis and Jihadis have right to do Vishayantar and criticize the sentiments of peaceful people? You cling to Swami Dayanand and Satyarth Prakash and Vedas only because of sentiments. There is no logic behind it because you don’t even know the language of Vedas. You don’t practice majority of what is written in Satyarth Prakash. But you value your emotions and assume Dayanand was right. Same way others have their own emotions. Respect them. Don’t be the potency doctor who knows all truth about God. First reach Samadhi level and then tell others what God is and why idol is…

      • As for Niyog, you should go and read that chapter. Don’t teach idol-worshippers like me. Instead cite one single instance of Niyog performed by any Arya Samaji in last 140 years? When Dayanand said Niyog is only right approach for Brahmins, Vaishya and Kshatriyas. He has listed demerits of remarriage. Remarriage is only for Shudras. Now if Arya Samajis are Shudra, they must not even talk about intellectual topics like God, Vedas. They must simply serve the society. And if they have rights to give their fatwa on highly intellectual topics, they should give examples of Niyog in their Samaj.

      • Krishna, You are giving reference to what Agniveer wrote few years ago. I agree with that. Point is that instead of blindly citing scriptures, one should use wisodm and use scriptures to supplement that wisdom. And no person is perfect. While Swami Dayanand was a great person, he was not God. The problem with Arya Samaj is that they blindly follow Dayanand instead of Vedas. They will use distorted logic to justify whatever they think Dayanand believed in based upon their limited study of Dayanand. This is the Jihadi mindset.

      • Amit,

        Arya Samaj nor did Dayanand support Niyoga. Also Dayanand was one of the few of his time to bring back Purva Paksha and Utter Paksha. Something that is needed today, but has gone away. Arya Samaj is one of the few groups, and Rajiv Malhotra are the ones doing it.

      • Why you do not allow your Arya Samaj Pradhan to distribute children of gurukuls to appropriate parents after education as detailed in Satyarth Prakash chapter 4? Why you have photos of Dayanand and Virajanand in all your Arya Samaj temples? Why you sing “Pujniya Prabhu Humare…” after Yajna? From which Ved is the song? Why don’t you marry a single girl of your family with Brahmcharis of 48 years of age? Why you chant Vedic mantras but refuse to have even basic understanding of Vedic Sanskrit

      • Why Arya Samajis talk in language other than Sanskrit of Vedas? Couldn’t you learn even the language that your teacher asked you to learn in 130 years? As per him, you must be able to learn it within 2.5 years upto Mahabhashya level? Why Arya Samajis recite Vedas when they dont even know its language? And yet they claim that one must use logic and analysis to first understand and then adopt?

      • Not one single Arya Samaji today is at top of any field. No Arya Samaji gets into IIT, IIM. Those who get do not take Arya Samaj seriously. Truth is that Arya Samaj of today is a bunch of mediocres whose only trip in life is to abuse and insult faith of others. Jihadis do with sword. Arya Samajis do with ridicule because they are not even brave enough to fight. That is why they are non-existent in Army except as Pujaris.

      • Admission criteria for IIT/IIM are different. It has no connection with the views on idol worship. There would be so many Christians, Muslims, Sikhs students in IIM/IIT. Should we judge religious and philosophical issues on the strength of the students of a particular sect or religion in IIM/IIT? What an absurd logic! There can be some Arya Samaji students or students from Aryasamaj families in IIM/IITs. Has any body surveyed on this?
        Bhavesh Merja

      • You completely missed the point. The point is that any society that goes about ridiculing others on basis of personal faith is bound be a society of dumb people. That is why Muslims and Arya Samajis have hardly any exemplary person in current times. Instead of pointing fingers on others and insulting their religious sentiments, please explain why no Arya Samaji promotes and practices Niyog when Satyarth Prakash clearly says that Niyog should be done by Arya people. Only Shudra should go for remarriage. Also, please explain do you marry your daughters of 24 year age with guy of 48 years?

      • Truth is that Arya Samajis are those closed minds who simply parrot the works of their founder Swami Dayanand. When they don’t even know the language, how can they understand. They are like Chinese who enjoy French radio show because it sounds good.
        Dayanand became a hero not due to Satyarth Prakash but due of his charisma and example. Satyarth Prakash was published after his death. So better set examples than show borrowed intellect

        Let us have sincerity and courage to see truth face to face

      • Amit, arya samaj is not the only Hindu group against idol worship. Look up ayya vazhi. It started in south india. I will write more about this later.

      • There are large number of Hindu groups who do not believe in idol worship. But it is only Arya Samajis who would announce that their mission is to “oppose idol worship”. Swami Dayanand was a Yogi and Vedas expert. He talked at different level. But these modern Arya Samajis know not even basic Sanskrit, practice not a bit of Yoga, have no standards to set but are always the first in criticizing others. All the while their own temples being marriage centers. Look inward and set right examples. Then world will follow you automatically.

      • One should read book of Pt. Yudhishthir Mimansak on History of Maharshi Dayananda’s works and/or Dr Ram Prakash’s book “Satyarth-Vimarsh” to know the reality of publication of 1st and 2nd editions of Satyarth-Prakash — before leveling absurd allegations.
        Bhavesh Merja

      • Which allegation? Please list out what allegations I have put on Satyarth Prakash. I have merely exposed the double-standards of modern Arya Samajis who are a disgrace to greatness of Swami Dayanand. Who believe rebuttal of idol-worship to be their mission. Check the list of all people who were trustees of Paropkarini Sabha nominated by Swami Dayanand and explain why it is full of idol-lovers? Why Dayanand used to stay in temples and accept funds from those kings who were idol-worshippers and even polygamists? Why he accepted Queen Victoria as Srimati Rajrajeshwari?

      • Are you talking about that Ram Prakash who says Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi are his role models? And Rahul Gandhi is a genius! Did he not research what allegations Gandhi put on Satyarth Prakash?

      • When one finds incapable to counter Arya Samaj with the support of scriptural evidences and reasoning, he/she starts writing such irrelevant things.
        Sri Sanjeev ji “Agniveer” should not write such confused things on idol worship on his website. He has been an intelligent person and so we expected his support in propagation of Vedic teachings, but I don’t know what has made him so changed. Man is as such FREE !
        Bhavesh Merja

      • You seem to project it as though u have scriptural backing…..but the fact is that all you have is the writings of swami DS…..whereas the others base their knowledge on more autheintic source…the Bhagavad Gita and the Vedas.

        Your stance against idol worship has no scriptural basis. I had explanied this….and will now explain again:
        1)There is no verse in Vedas against idol worship…NONE…ZILCH…..it fact it doesn’t mention about idol worship at all…..it doesn’t talk of even “how” to worship god !!! Vedas explain god concept….And also mentions that god is “prayer worthy”…

      • Fools give more importance to scriptures than own conscience. When Dayanand showed that Niyog is as per Vedas, and you believe so, why cannot you give even one instance of Niyog in your Arya samaj in 130 years? Dayanand said 24 year girl shud marry 48 year old. He said learn Sanskrit in 2.5 years upto Mahabhashya. He said children must be distributed to parents not by birth but by king. Why you dont follow all this? Truth is that you find more convenient to apply you logic when it concerns you. But for others, you try to claim scriptural authority. All the while not even knowing language!!

  13. Namaste Agriveerji. I appreciate your attempt to bring all people under common platform. Vedic views I understand is anything felt by human senses on earth or universe(means Panchabhuta= air,water,fire,heaven and earth)= are termed as Idol. So also any image,statue, dead bodies burried under earth,etc are also Idols and not GOD. All man-made religions are worshipping Idols only in any form and one cult is not immune from it. Remedy is, have right vedic knowledge first and then find your path.

  14. 2)Vedas do say that god exist in sakar and nirakar forms
    3)BG also confirms it. Seriously Arya Samaj should refrain from putting swami DS’s work to be above BG….because in a way BG is an interpretation of Vedas…..all philosphical teaching in BG has a backing in the Veda.Whatever swami DS has said is his INTERPRETAtion of Veda……and not the Veda per se….Anyone reading the Vedas can themselves see this for a fact

    Bhavesh ji…..here is not quoting Veda……but the interpretation of Veda b swami DS……..people do not need interpretation…they can directly see Vedic verse and…

  15. NowI will once again present scriptural evidence. But plz remember, Vedas do not say anything in support of idol worship per se. It doesn’t even comment about idol worship…….Arya Samaj says Veda is against idol worship because they say god has no form…….and that it…….the part that “Vedas are against idol worship” is their interpretation of the halk baked knowledge that god is formless

    What I will be doing is to post eveidence which shows god has a “sakar” version as well

    But also note…..even IF god was formless, it doesn’t negate worship through the medium of idols.

  16. Interpreting thatVedas are against idol worship just because Vedas say that god is formless is SIMPLY stated “putting your own verses (or ideas) into the Vedas”

    Now here is evidence for sakar god:

    1)dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe, mūrtaṃ caivāmūrtaṃ ca [Brh. Up – 2.3.1]
    – God (Brahman) has two modes, formless (nirakara, asambhuta) as well as form (sakar, sambhuta)

    NB: Here it talks about Brahman….not Brahma….Brahma is the entity which Bhaves ji says is ONLY formless

    2)Agne TanuH Asi | Vishnve Tva Somasya Tanur’ Asi (Yaj 1..15)
    (That Eternal Purush has a body for nurturing…

    • I once again state that the quoted statement of Bri. Upanishad has noting to do with Ishwar’s (God’s) swaroop. It speaks of “Panch-Mahaa-Bhoots” – agni, vayu etc. In the next verse this becomes too clear.

      Yajurveda (1.15) does not indicate any thing about the so-called body of God. The chapter is about Yagna. The word “Tanooh” has many meanings. Pl read Sanskrit bhaashya of Dayananda on this mantra and know the fact.

      Bhavesh Merja

  17. …….. when God, comes as a guest in this world for some time to explain Tattavgyan to His devotees, He comes by wearing a body of lighter masses of lights over His actual effulgent body)

    On top of this there are multiple verses from BG too

    Now there is NO CONTRADICTION in my mind between Vedas and BG……It is only bhavesh ji that thinks so…..in fact if anybody believes in the ideas of Bhavesh ji they are agreeing that BG and Veda are contradictory…….Remember that !

    But the truth is that…there are contradictions

    This is another reason why I say BG summarizes veda…

    • I have not referred so fat any thing about the book Geeta.
      It contains 700 slokas, but many of them have been later additions.
      Geeta contains a mixture of Vedic and anti-Vedic concepts.
      It is a man made book, and cannot be compared with the Divine wisdom of the Vedas.
      Sri Krishna was a great Vedic person, a great devotee of the actual – eternal – formless Ishwar (God).
      Bhavesh Merja

  18. accurately than swami DS……Afterall on a lighter note, Lord Krishna and Ved Vyas can be safely considered to be superior to swami DS…..can’t they?

    • Maharshi Ved Vyas ji says in Mahabharat (Shanti Parva: 269-16,17) that God is FORMLESS – “a-shabda-spars-roopam”.

      Vyas says : “na pratIke na hi sah” (Vedant Darshan or Brahmasootra: 4.1.5).

      We believe what Maharshi Vyas ji has written is correct. This is exactly what Dayananda or Arya Samaj says.

      Bhavesh Merja

  19. Swami DS may have bad some views that were really genuine. because he is not alive now, we can’t interact with him. But the stand of Arya Samaj is laughable. Their stand is not in any way better than the Muslims. muslims have blind belief in Quran and they will believe anything in it as interpreted by their scholars. Arya Samaj on the other hand are blind beilevers of swami DS. They are in fact even worse than Muslims. If the Arya samaj members critically try to analyze the Vedas they could see that Vedas are not against idol worship

    @Bhavesh…..Mr Amit ji has posted some pertinant points

    • If “Vedas are not against idol worship”, as claimed by some of the defenders of idolatry, then we would like to know the alternate workable meanings of those 7 evidences quoted by Swami Dayananda in refutation of the idol worship in the 11th chapter of Satyarth-Prakash.
      The Vedas are very clear on the concept of Godhead.
      Bhavesh Merja

    • Criticism of idol-worship should not be taken as ridiculing or insulting others.
      Truth should be our chief objective.
      “Niyog” is altogether a different topic. It has no connection with idol-worship.
      Yes, Maharshi Dayananda has mentioned Niyog based on the Vedas and its social utility under certain conditions.
      But currently it is not practical because of want of its so many essential supporting & regulatory institutions.
      Here the topic under review is idol-worship, not Niyog.
      Bhavesh Merja

      • So basically Niyog is not practical but criticism of idol worship is. Then why did Swami Dayanand file a petition with government to provide legal status to children borne out of Niyog. Today, such children do have legal status. Why you don’t practice Niyog then? Basically Arya Samajis like to criticize others in name of truth. But when it comes to them, they will say “out of context”. Point is that if you do not perform Niyog, you are Shudra as per Dayanand. And hence you must not give advice on Vedas. You must serve rest of us. And rise above Shudra to comment on Vedas.

      • The subject under discussion is idol worship – not Niyog.
        May I know where it is mentioned that Swami Dayanand filed a petition with government to provide legal status to children borne out of Niyog?
        Arya Samaj stands for the purposes enlisted in its 10 commandments.
        The Vedas are universal.
        It is common heritage and wealth of the entire mankind.
        Arya Samaj doesn’t claim any sp. right on them.
        Indecent words are sign of weakness in a civilzed society.
        Bhavesh Merja

      • Subject of discussion is that to discuss about most complex topics like God, Meditation, Worship, minimum criterion is that one must be Arya. Shudra are not even allowed to study Vedas until they become Arya (Refer Chapter 10 of Satyarth). Also as per Ch 4 of Satyarth, only Shudra perform remarriage. For Arya, only way is Niyog. And remarriage can lead to risks of even murder. So definitely not to be allowed by Arya!! And what if I show the petition of Dayanand. What will be your stand then? I am not using indecent words. You are coming here and insulting everyone who supports idol worship

  20. @ Vavesh Merja

    As I said earlier that different people may have different views about the nature of God. It is very difficult to say whather God takes form or not. We humans have limited knowledge. Worship the God the way you want. Problem arises when a person try to impose his views on others.

    Hindus worship both nirakar and sakaar form of God. They make idol of god. But saying that they worship idols and not Ishwar would be wrong.

    • Right, different people may have different views about the nature of God. But does it mean that God doesn’t have any definite swaroop i.e. characteristics?
      It is our duty to ascertain the true conception of God with the help of Vedas and intellect.
      Yes, we humans have limited knowledge. That is why the revealed knowledge of God i.e. the Vedas should be our guiding book. The Vedas say – “na-tasya-pratimaa-asti”.
      Bhavesh Merja

  22. The comments here show what is wrong with thinking Hindus . Namely the can’t unite against a common threat they will always try to prove “I am right and u (other hindu) is wrong while the real others will wipe u out . MORONS.

    • Should then Hindus stop thinking?
      Thinking is the most needed and the most difficult task.
      God has given us the Vedas and intellect to think – “dhiyo yo nah prachodayaat”.
      Idol-worship is destroyer of social, national and human unity.
      This fact can be well realized only after due thinking on the influence of that practice.
      Common threat can be well met if our people are united and worshippers of true God.
      Unfortunately, these days most of our people are worshipping false gods.
      How can we be strong and capable to defend us, without true kind of worship?
      Bhavesh Merja

      • Prove how idol-worship is destroyer of social, national and human unity. Arya Samaj does not do idol-wroship. It claims to follow vedas in best manner? Why is it the most factionalized Hindu group today? Why innumerable court cases, fights in Arya Samaj? Why Arya Samajis are first to fight and insult others and even internally. Did you ever hear a Shiva devotee and Durga devotee fighting today? But I can show that Arya Samajis have filed highest number of court cases on each other! What a joke to hear about “unity” from Arya samajis. They only unite through love marriages in their temples!

      • Hi Amit,

        I believe idol worship is not good for unity. And since Vedas base is Yoga, and Yoga means unity, idol worship actually goes against Yoga. Here is the basic reason. When you have idols, hence the plural, you have different groups of people worshiping to different idols. You have the Shiva temple, the Ganesh Temple, the Krishna temple, the Ram temple. And you have people who are Shiva devotees, Ram devotees, Ganesh devotees, Krishna devotees. They all create their own rituals and group off into their own thing. You have fracturing among your people.

      • Amit,

        And to further elaborate, that is what caused India to be conquered. There wasn’t unity. I’m not saying idol worship is the only colporate, nor am I saying we should focus on the idol worship as the major issue today, but what I am saying is the bigger issue in India and among our Dharmic people is unity. Honestly that is the number one thing that holds us back. Here are some issues:

        1. Language barriers.
        2. Lighter skinned people have superiority complex over dark skinned people
        3. Caste
        4. South North divide

        We need to unite, and deal with the issues above first…

      • Dear Krishna

        I completely agree with your spirit. Unity is main requirement. And that does not come with having same form of worship. It comes through spirit of acceptance of diversity so far it is peaceful. Otherwise Arya Samaj would have been most united group. When people like Bhavesh blame everything on idol-worship, what they imply is that everything is hopeless because even if you start today, idol-worship cannot stop in 300 years. There will always be differences among people and way they approach God. But you can always respect sentiments and work for unity nstead of mocking others.

      • Amit,

        Yes, there is diversity, and we should accept it, but also we should not accept everything. Are we willing to accept diversity sooooooo much that anything goes. I think this whole idea of diversity is a good phrase, but when you get passed the surface level, you can see the many flaws in it. Why don’t we just accept murder as well because it is diverse?

      • I wrote that we must accept diversity so far it is peaceful. To ridicule people on basis of religious beliefs is most stupid thing, especially when one who condemns has also not witnessed God and is just parroting lines of some other expert. You can at best state your points, point that you differ and leave it to other person to accept or not. But if one starts condemning other people as sinners, insults author by taking names, that shows that the person is a fanatic zombie like Jihadis who also show same traits. I am referring to arrogance of Mr Bhawesh.

      • Hi Amit,

        You did hit a good point about personally experiencing God. That is a big part of Yoga. The personal experience of God on a higher state of consciousness. Since the essence of the Vedas is Yoga, that clearly shows the Vedas encourages everyone to try and personally experience God, the best proof out there. Since none of us personally experinced God on a higher state of consciousness, we have to use another source, and one of the best is the Vedas. The Vedas was put together by people who experienced God. Hence plural.

      • @Amit
        Harsh n bitter replies, but true and spot-on!
        Hope this help fantasy lovers recognize their on-going dream state, otherwise, God forbid, it can get really embarrassing if ‘outside-forces’ cause them to wake-up.
        Hope that they give up their habit of choosing easy/convenient path whenever theres a choice infront, and instead embrace Vidya[actuality] over avidya in thoughts-words-ACTIONS, and go on to achieve wonders and real success before its too late and the show is over.

  23. Ref: Msg of Sri Amit Trivedi ji dtd. 1.2.15:

    Swami Dayananda has proved that the study of the Vedas is open to all mankind, including so-called Shoodras. One should not create confusion on this. Better to carefully read Dayananda’s works.
    I have not read any thing of the so-called petition of Sw. Dayanand so far. If any evidence of the same is given, it will add to my knowledge.
    Bhavesh Merja

    • 1. Have you shaved your head totally as instructed by Dayanand? If not, your intellect is lower. Refer Ch 10 of Satyarth Prakash. Hence all Arya Samajis who cannot follow this simple order of Dayanand must not even talk on intellectual topics. First announce that shaving of head is a mission of Arya Samaj just as you said opposing idol-worship is a mission.
      2. Can you confirm that Arya Samajis do not breast-feed babies for more than 6 days and hire a milk-mother (Dhaai) to feed for one month and then feed only cow’s milk. If not, all Arya Samajis born are likely to be dumb as per SP Ch 2.

      • 3. Ref Ch 3. Shudra must be taught everything except Vedas. So those Arya Samajis who do not practice Niyog or were born dumb because they drank mother’s milk for more than 6 days are Shudra.
        4. You said that even Shudras can read Vedas. Yes, everyone can read like general book. But they cannot be taught in depth unless they become Dwija. And hence they have no right to teach others what they themselves don;t know. Remember that Shudra is defined as dumb person by Dayanand.
        5. On Niyog, tell me whether you will start a movement to promote Niyog if I show the petition? What is your stand?

      • Again the issues raised are not related to idol-worship.

        Vishayaantar (= deviation from the main point of deliberation/discussion) is not to be entertained.

        It would lead us nowhere.

        Bhavesh Merja

      • When you are caught in tight-spot, it is Vishayantar. And when you insult peaceful religious sentiments of majority, that is social work! What I say is completely relevant. As per Satyarth Prakash and Swami Dayanand, unless you practice Niyog, marry 24 year old girls to 48 year old, stop mother’s milk after 6 day, you are bound to be a dumb (Shudra) and hence not even fit to comment on topics relating to God and Vedas.

      • Mr Bhavesh, Dont you even realize what you are doing? You intrude in someone’s site, criticize their religious beliefs, take names and insult the writer. How are you different from Jihadis who encroach others to spread their “truth”? If you disagree, can’t you simply ignore the site? If you have to oppose, why don’t you create another website and write whatever you want? You could have written one one comment on your view. But you keep ridiculing sentiments of others and blaming author of the article. And then you say Vishayantar!

  24. What’s your take on the killing of cow which is a sacred animal of Hindus by the Muslims? I believe that like idol worshipping is not liked by the muslims, the killing of cows is not liked by the Hindus. You have urged the muslims to rise above what their religion teaches them and think logically. What will be your message to the Hindus regarding the killing of the cows by Muslims?

  25. @ Bhavesh

    Agne TanuH Asi | Vishnve Tva Somasya Tanur’ Asi (Yaj 1..15)

    This verse talks about body of ishwar

    Now as you asked to refer to swami DS’s works……but as i told earlier….Swami DS is not the authority here….we ourselves are…..so you could say that the verse means something else if its your own independent interpretation…..but I would not accept from you swami DS’s translations…b/c we simply do not accept his authority in sanskrit or on vedas

    Swami DS’s interpretations is not accpetable for me and many other scholars

    Reg Ved Vyas…..he speaks not only…

    • Sw. Dayananda has mentioned that his interpretation of the Vedas is based on the outlines set by ancient Rishis & scholars like great Yask etc. He has given references of such ancient books in his works. His is not an ‘independent’ bhaashya, in the strict sense of the word. In one of his books, he has mentioned that starting from Rigved up to Poorva-Mimansa, he accepted almost 3000 works as authoritative after due scrutiny. One can imagine his scholarship. KM Munsi has written that Dayananda was learned beyond the measure of man.
      However, one is free not to regard him as authority!…

  26. about nirakar god…..but also about sakar god……and you know it

    You can’t for your convenience say that many verses of BG could have been adulterated….it is your this attitudes makes u imagine a conflict between BG and Vedas

    I will be more than happy to refute any questions u may have……but I cannnot do your work by referring to swami DS’s work…..finding out the 7 points u mentioned and answer them

    You point out the so called refutations….and somebody here will answer

    If my memory serves me correct……many of the arguments given there are totally…

  27. u can’t imagine god being formless and with form at the same time…….many of the arguments put forward in the book follow similar arguments

    In my opinion such arguments mean nothing…..if u can’t imagine , its a limitation of your brain…….don’t put it as a point for debate !!!

    You tried to say “agni” in the verse i quoted mean something else…..but i could say the same with any verse u quote……in the end they mean nothing

    It is basically to avoind these issues I believe BG came to being…..accept it or not….thats your choice….but I will keep replying

    “na…

  28. That verse do not mean “do not do idol worship”….there is no verse in Vedas mentioning idoll worship

    and this verse in Vedas say god has a body:

    Agne TanuH Asi | Vishnve Tva Somasya Tanur’ Asi (Yaj 5.1)
    (That Eternal Purush has a body for nurturing everyone i.e. when God, comes as a guest in this world for some time to explain Tattavgyan to His devotees, He comes by wearing a body of lighter masses of lights over His actual effulgent body

    dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe, mūrtaṃ caivāmūrtaṃ ca [Brh. Up – 2.3.1]
    – God (Brahman) has two modes, formless (nirakara, asambhuta) as well as form

    • God, being Omni-present, cannot move.
      He cannot come or go.
      A thing can move from “where it is” to “where it is not”.
      For God, there is no space where He is not.
      So He cannot move.
      He is eternally Omni-present, pervading the entire cosmos, infinite and endless.
      Arya Samaj stands to propagate such true – Vedic attributes of God.
      Theism can be meaningful only when it stands on true conception of God.
      All are free. We should not and cannot compel any body to accept what we believe.
      We respect everyone’s freedom in such matters.
      Bhavesh Merja

  29. The verse from Bri.Upanishad talks about Brahman…..that is an uncontestable fact. (if u still think so explain yourself rather than asking me to check)

    I don’t understand how u can say anythg against god havig form is incorrect..your statement is antiVedic

    Its only after interaction with you that I find Arya Samj is anto Vedas

    And I find it laughable for u say BG has anti Veda statement…..IIf I ever have that confusion, I would think “maybe my understanding of either BG or Veda is incorrect”..but since nobody has any doubt about BG’s verses, maybe my understanding of Veda’s…

  30. It is quite possible that swami DS gave his own translations to verses from Vedas giving importance to once that spoke of a nirakar god and giving alternate meaning wherever they speak of a sakar god

    For me…….there is no contradiction between BG and Veda

    Its the limited understanding of some people that they are unable to interpret scriptures without having to see contradictions

    And BTW Bhavesh ji……u have proven to be follower of swami DS rather than anything else !!

    With your blind antiVedic stand and all !

    Reiterating: Vedas are not againt idol worship (no verses…

    • Where common sense doesn’t prevail, I think nothing can work.

      In Yajurveda (40.8), God is described as ‘a-kaayam’ = without any body, and “Sa-paryagaat” = Omani-present.

      If some one talks of “His body”, should we believe? No, Vedas are the supreme authority.

      Arya Samaj stands for Vedic teachings.

      Swami Dayananda expected that through Arya Samaj the superstitions like idol worship would be eradicated and true meaning of the Vedas would be understood by the world.

      Bhavesh Merja

    • In the 11th Chapter of Satyarth-Prakash, Swami Dayananda has answered in length the following question, which is frequently raised by the defenders of idol-worship:

      Question:
      “If the Vedas do not permit idol-worship, they do not, at the same time, prohibit. And, if they prohibit it, it shows that the existence of idolatry is implied. Because there is no prohibition possible unless there exists something to be prohibited.”

      Curious minds may read the answer in Swami’s book, if they wish to know the truth.

      Bhavesh Merja

  31. Yes….commonsense is something you also should show….you are just a blind follower of SDS

    As you yourself said Vedas do not prohibit idol worship……this matter is explained better in BG which clarifies worship of god with form and without form and consider both equal….In fact if someone worships the nirakar form without having the ability to do so, his worship will be useless…you guys of Arya Samaj can hold on to your blinded beliefs…..but there are real believers out there……and it is not proper to instil doubts in their minds…..

  32. 1)I reiterate again….idol worship is not prohibited in Veda…..SDS might INFER so…..but its only an inference……and when u so infer, it amounts to adding your own knowledge into Veda…..
    2)Vedas are NOT the supreme authority…..it is one among many,….the saying goes

    “grantham abhyatha medhavi gyana vigyana tatpara palaladi vadanyarthi tyajeth grantham asheshaha”

    Meaning one should not clutch on to a scripture and should extract meaning from it rather than going for literal meanings…..when u do so u r bound to make mistakes

    We have lot other scriptures…..and it is…

  33. essential to derive an interpretation that blends with everything….When u follow literal meanings and do not try to understand whole meaning, you may make yourself able to debate a lot……but of no real benefit.

    1)I have read SDS arguments against idol worship…….none are applicable for idol worship….And as he and you state Veda contains nothing against idol worship…..all thats done in Satyarth Prakash to use Vedic verses to proport meanings more than what they reveal (Eg: One must not worship sambhuti as per veda….hence no idol worship..THATS ADDING your own meanings)

  34. 2)A scripture per se doesn’t mean anything; be it Veda or BG….one has to read it try to interpret the meanings for himself…..he also should read every available scripture and accept them only if they appeal to your commonsense…and then derive a meaning after getting a wholesome idea

    3)Regarding “someone says of a body ”
    In your case SDS is that soomeone who speaks against idol worship…..why should we believe him when the statement has no reference within the Vedas !!!!

    And the person who is talking about a body is Ved Vyas……if u can quote SDS…..why can’t I quote Ved…

  35. 4)PLUS its none other Ved Vyas who has arranged the current day Vedas…..most other scriptures are his work…..why can’t I quote him

    Then again its as I said…..”I don’t go by face value…I read scriptures …..accept them only if its acceptibel for me….and as of today I had seen no contradictions between BG and Veda”

    I realise….i probably am trying to explain the meaning of “color” to someone who is color blind…and hence is not going to succeed….but not everybody is color blind.!!!!!

    5)You are behaving as if you already know the truth……nobody can help u then !

  36. Scriptures are interpreted by scholars differently. For ex., Yajur V 32.3, ‘Na Tasya Pratima’ is interpreted by Tulsi Ram as ‘There is none and nothing like Him’ (God is apratim). Yajur V 40.9 ‘Andham tamah’ is interpreted by Ramanuja as ‘Those who consider God as either unmanifest (asambhuti) only or entire manifested universe only will both suffer darkness, as God is both and hence inconceivable (achintyam brahmano rupam)’. While DS’s evils of idol worship are all still valid, and hence Dhyan is ideal form of worship and needs promotion, sanctioning idol worship is irrational.

  37. God has form and formless as result of our thoughts. What you think that you become.
    Can someone prove he has form or formless? All depend on what you think. Rather than criticizing others’ belief system challenge yourself to experience the GOD by yourselves. GOD accept your love to him. Bring yourselves one step further closer to him from now! I am happy that every religion accepted GOD but with different approach.
    Namaste!

    • Thank u sir…I finally see some very mature voices here….actually I am not a propenderant of either formless or god with form…I believe each person’s true search of god will result in god being experienced in a particular way….and this will vary from people to people

      But I have been forced here to oppose this Sanjeev bhai here because he might unneedingly undermine somone else’s path to god by instilling the notion of formless god worship…….When he quote a few passages from Vedas here and there and names like swami DS , weak minds might get prejudiced

      And I didn’t want that

    • If it be said that – “all depend on what you think”, then why a person moves to a safer side seeing a truck coming towards him/her?

      If he/she THINKS at that time that – “I don’t think any truck is coming, I don’t acknowledge the very existence of any truck coming towards me, shouldn’t the truck hit him/her?

      Same way: When God is Formless (as the Vedas say & proved by reasoning & inference), then even if the entire world thinks that “God has a form”, He would remain Formless as ever.

      God is not bound to change His natural attributes, in accordance with what people…

      • First of all its not “proved” according to Vedas that god is formles..Vedas say god has form…….vverses quoted earlier (and BTW akayam means god is not the body…..meaning he is much more than whats visible to the eye….but yet “tannum svam”….god has form)

        Secondly…..gods true nature is inconcievable…..if thats true…..whether someone worships a god with form or a formless god….it wouldn’t matter……what could matter is whether your devotion is strong enough….whether your deeds are good etc….God cannot be someone scheapskate out to punish people getting wrong…

      • about his form…..which is impossible for us humans to understand anyway !!!

        Well as long as you are not trying to deliberately insult god…..it should be OK !!

        If my concpet of god is correct…..he wouldn’t care even if u deliberately twisted god concept…..he should be above such emotions

        So Bhavesh ji…..you can safely go on with your formless god eventhough its against Vedas……thats between u and god…..just don’t bring it upon us too strongly…..b/c we have not realised our godly selves yet….so we may not be so kind

  38. @Bhavesh Merja
    Sri Agniveer has said that this world is ‘world inc’ and God is CEO of this world inc.So suppose if there is a company and CEO of that company want all his / her employees to contact her/ him only through email and make an order that s/ he will entertain contacts only through email and would not entertain contacts made through letters or telephone. So what s/ he will do to the employees who would contact her/ him through letter or telephone either s/he would not entertain them or if condition worsened then s/he would fire them.Same with the God.

  39. @Bhavesh Merja
    Sri Agniveer ji has said that this world is ‘world inc’ and God is CEO of this world inc.So suppose if there is a company and CEO of that company want all his / her employees to contact her/ him only through email and make an order that s/ he will entertain contacts only through email and would not entertain contacts made through letters or telephone. So what s/ he will do to the employees who would contact her/ him through letter or telephone either s/he would not entertain them or if condition worsened then s/he would fire them.Same with the God.

    • A faithful and sincere employee will always love to obey CEO’s instruction, if CEO is righteous & just.

      God, being all-knowing, Omnipotent, merciful and just, it is always good for us to follow His commandments.

      Worldly CEO is a human being with all sorts of human limitations & weaknesses, but God – the CEO of the world, has infinite power, so He has been always competent to do His job.

      It is the duty of the employees to know true nature of CEO. Same way it is duty of human beings or devotees to know the true nature of GOD – the CEO of the world.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • Look brother even I am also not a idol worshipper.But I don’t see idol worshipping as inferior thing or sin .What is right way of worshipping God and what’ s not who are we to decide this .It should be everyone’s personal choice depending on their capabilities and comfort.Only feeling matters not external path.May God bless us with his/ her divine knowledge. Let there be kingdom of peace , love , prosperity &divine knowledge.
        Jai Hind Jai Bharat

  40. If God wanted all devotees to worship her/ him only in non idol form then s/he wouldn’t have blessed idol worshipper or simply have fired all idol worshippers out of this world.But still idol worshippers are surviving and blessed by God and some of them gaining divine knowledge like Vivekanand ,Ram Krishna Paramhansh, Swami Praphupad etc.So in short, God has no problem either we worship her/ him in idol form or in non idol form.It’s everyone’s personal choice.Don’t hate people on the basis of this stupidity. If there are 10 reasons to hate each other then there are 100 reason to love…

    • Individual soul (aatmaa) is a FREE doer.
      God doesn’t compel or force any soul to act.
      That is why there are even so many atheists who negate the very existence of God !
      There were no doubt so many excellent qualities in great – famous persons who were idol worshippers, but validity of idol worship can not be proved based on that.
      If a person is a good speaker, and also smokes, we can praise his oratory skill, not his habit of smoking.
      Bhavesh Merja

      • Same argument goes for formless god worshippers……evebthough Vedas say god has form……some people wrongly interpret Vedas and say god is some sort of vacuum thereby in a way insulting god……but god is not some cheapskate to punish someone based on their belief pattern

        Its only theor action and their devotion that matters

        B/c god ture nature is not best described as “with form” or as “formless” because either way its concievable…..god’s true nature is best described as inconcievable !!!! Most likely way it can be incoivebale is if god can be with form and formless at…

  41. People are of limited knowledge…hence one should interpret various scriptrues and accept others statements only if they go hand in hand with scriptural knowledge

    We must reject interpretations that is totally in contradictions with divine scriptures

    The Vedas say that “GOD HAS FORM viz: tannum svam,… brahmano rupe,….agne tannuh asi etc” No mention of formless god in Veda!
    But the issue is cleared in BG which says “god has a nirakar and sakar nature at the same time”

    Thus we can see eventhogh vedas say god has form, the true nature of god is inconcievable b/c its both…

    • I would like to know in which chapter and in which shlok of Bhagawat Geeta it is mentioned that – “god has a nirakar and sakar nature at the same time”.

      It should be exactly conveying the same meaning what has been given in the above English statement in inverted commas.

      Bhavesh Merja

  42. My point is we musn’t deride followers of a formless god just because the Vedas say that god has form……always remember other scriptures like Bhagavad Gita speaks off a formless god as well……along with god with form

    ie god is both formless and with form…….agreed its against logic……but god is above logic …..don’t u think?

    And thats exactly why the conncept of god is inconcievable to us!!!

    Further also remeber…..Vedas are not the ultimate scripture……there are other scriptures too…Read all and then interpret

    Our religion is not Islam to follow blindly…

    • To say that – “Vedas are not the ultimate scripture” simply exhibits the total ignorance of the Vedas and the supreme position awarded to the Vedas by our great ancient Vedic sages and seers including Maharshi Manu.
      Bhavesh Merja

      • I knew u would say that…..one scripture does not have any authoity over other scripture…..its only your ignorance which says so

        Did anyone has some divine revealation that said so ? Its only our traditions that told so….but in our traditions, doesn’t Bhagavad Gita have that authoryt…..equal and same ?

        I know your answer is no…..b/c you are just a blind believer of swami DS and prejudiced notions

        But the truth is ….BG has equal authority….I say so…..b/c I find the message of both similar and divinely inspired and non-contradictory !!!

        So Vedas may say god has…

      • God has been described in Vedas and Vedic books as ‘Sarva-vyaapak’ = Omni-present.

        For example: Rig 10.82.5, Yajus 17.29, Rig 10.90.3, Chhandogya Up.3.14.3, Shatpath Br. 10.6.3.2, Yajus 32.8, Mundak Up. 1.1.6, Sweta. Up. 1.6, etc, etc.

        Omni-present means present every where = infinite.

        Now, simple reasoning is to be applied:

        Can a thing/substance/substratum/entity (=Dravya/Padaarth/Vastu, etc) present every-where (means infinite), have any shape, borders, form or dimensions ?

        The simple answer any honest mind would forward – NO.

        Bhavesh Merj

      • @Bhavesh, God has been described as ‘Anupam’ & ‘Avyakt’ in Aarsh Granthas. Which means She can have no names/adjectives. Also She can’t be talked about in words etc. So the very first thing you must do, if you are Vedic, is stop using even a single word on/about God. Forget about arguing on Her swaroop etc. And if a single word comes to your mind when you think of Her, consider yourself as biggest Pakhandi, Ved Ghaatak & Murti Poojak. First break idols of words in your mind/writings that you have built for ‘Avyakt’ & ‘Anupam’ Eeshvar and then go to others. Until then,…

      • Regarding the qn of omniprescence my answer is GOD could……meaning if an entity called GOD does exist……it could exist in the form of a human being…..if it cannot whats the purpose of being all powerful?

        Why do u have a problem with that?
        In BG lord Krishna is mentioned to have shown his vishwaroopa……My point is he could thus expand to have an infinite “roopa” ….Being god, he could then opt to be in a smalle frame yet retaining omnipotency !!!!

        Now a qn for you….you said god is omnipresent…..so technicaly I am also a god-right???

    • It is not correct to say that – God is “inconceivable”.

      Because God is capable of being imagined or grasped mentally and so He is believable.

      The Vedant-Darshan (=Brahma-sootra) starts with this aphorism: “Athaato Brahm-Jigyaasaa” – which shows that Brahman=God can be understood, grasped, conceived, apprehended, realized, inquired in to, etc.

      Even Vedas also maintain so; e.g. Yajurveda (31.18 – “Vedaahametam Purusham Mahaantam…” says God is to be known.

      Bhavesh Merja

  43. but since BG says that god is formless and with form at the same time….I say that god is sakar and nirakar at the same time

    Q:”where in BG does it sakar and nirakar at the same time”?
    Ans:You have got a nerve…..I had asked you multiple times where in Vedas does it say that “idol worship is prohibited”? Did u ever give an “exact” reference? If not, what right u have to ask me this now ? And yet u post replies as if its a given that Vedas prohibit idol worship(where the other way around is much more near the truth)……my replies will therefore follow the standards that u keep !

  44. Hi Anjali, I’m more inclined toward your opinion and logically agree to others’ views as well.
    GOD is beyond the mind of ordinary people and Rama Krishna Paramahamsar has shared his experience of GOD through Bakthi and Advaitha path. He has experienced both form and formless GOD.
    I’m an idol worshipper and would like to experience what has been said about God in Vedas and other literatures.
    Meanwhile I’d like to see my beloved religion, Hinduism be respected and glorified.
    Bhavesh, I’d like to correct’ what you think’ phrase to ‘your belief system’ in that comment.

    Namaste!

    • Superstitions of idol worship and incarnation were supported by Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa ji.

      Result ?

      He (Paramhansa ji) is regarded / respected by his ‘educated’ followers more than God !

      One can visit RK Mission’s institutions and see the way Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa ji is glorified.

      Maharshi Dayananda wanted to preach the true path of Vedic upaasanaa, with no interfere on any mortal body — not even of any idols of any kind.

      Bhavesh Merja

      • @Bhavesh: There is no harm in glorifying any person till it is peaceful and not stopping spiritual advancements. This is our interpretations and inner competing-nature that does not allow to accept it and blaming that person. Can’t you see the number of people progressed spiritually through RKM and are within the most learned people within India.
        If you follow Vedic style of worship as per SDS, what the new thing you will give to the seeker which Quran is not giving (if ignoring the persecution of Kafirs)? To me, Vedic style of worship as per Atri, Angira and Vishvamitra is more advanced.

      • Arunesh,

        Yes there is. That is how you divide us. That is why our people are disunited. We should follow Yoga, the true path of unity. Not these idols which disunite us.

      • Don’t blame idol worship for our own disunity……Troubles will creep in any society….thats just human nature

        One school of thought is that bhakti will help in achieving the concentration and focus required of a person to enable him to achieve moksha ……which implies that if u can do yoga , one can achieve moksha even without bhakti……..in that sense bhakti can be considered as “not so essential”…….but don’t mix idol worship with this……to a person following the path of bhakti it doesn’t really matter whether they resort to use of idols or not (thats what i felel)

      • That been said; I would still like to believe that bhakti or devotion is an end in itself to attaining moksha….as said in Bhagavad Gita

        Yes I know, the BG doesn’t clearly clarify on this part….and it could be interpreted either way…….But still, as I said earlier I believe that the Bhakti path is an end to attaining moksha……!

      • If you think idols disunite us, let it be. I am fine to be disunited and would not join a band of people who rejects others faiths. It is idolators of India with a deep rooted spirituality that is protecting Dharma from all vidharmis. And they will fight to protect it or die respectfully. Indian mind is not intelligent enough towards its cultural and political rights and this is the reason of our disunity. Illusion shows differences. Illusions can’t be removed even by the implementation of harshest of law of conduct (like Shariya), differences cannot be removed. So, be happy and gel well….

      • Arunesh,

        Not true. Idol worship in a big way only started in India bout 2,000 years ago. Even the RSS states that. If you do the historical research, you will see that Idol worship was actually introduced in a big to India by the Greeks. Before vast majority of the people meditated on the One God.

        Just look at the Indus Valley civilization, it was a Yoga based society without idol worship.

      • Arun,

        So you admit it disunites. So if you know that, what do think lead to the take over of India. Come on man. You need to adapt.

        When Alexander came to India, he was pushed back when all the kings of India united to fight him. Back then most of India meditated on the one God. We need to have that kind of unity again.

  45. God has been rightly described as ‘Anupam’ & ‘Avyakt’.
    ‘Anupam’ means unparalleled – which can not be compared with any thing.
    ‘Ayakta’ means: (i) Non-manifested – God is not an effect of combination of elementary parts, He doesn’t transform, and (ii) Invisible – being devoid of any form.
    This however doesn’t mean that He has no names & adjectives.
    ‘Pranav’ (=Aum) is His chief name, as said by seer Patanjali ji.
    Vedas & Upanishads indicate His so many names and adjectives.
    Bhavesh Merja

    • 1.When God cant b compared w/ anything, ban all books describing God as Surya ke saman tejasvi, Raja ke saman nyaykari, Mata ke saman sukhdayak. Stop this Pakhand first. Ready 2 ban Satyarth Prakash?

      2.As per SDS, Eeshvar ka naam Agni ke samaan tejasvi hone se Agni hai. Fight him for giving God an Upma. And hope now you know that names/adjectives are nothing but Upma.

      3.Stop ur Pakhand on Avyakt. Ever heard of Shabdon/Vicharon ki abhiVYAKTi? Avyakt is not confined 2 form alone, it applies on words/thoughts equally. Now stop Pakhand of discussing God in words. Majak bana diya hai Vedon…

    • @Bhavesh: Is Moon (Chandra) Nirakaar to a Blind person? If no, then how can you explain the Features of Moon to that blind man and why he should believe you? If yes, then what is “Saakar” then? Our understanding of Vedas seems to be of very elementary level, we need to rise to levels of Shankar, Tukaram, Naamdev, Jnaaneshvar, etc. and then we should discuss on Form or Formless, till then, respecting diversity of thoughts of peaceful nature is best practice.
      Superstitions: They do not attribute to idol worship, rather they attribute to blindness of mind.

      It is time to love and embrace…

  46. Sorry to say but Agniveer you sold out…………. now this site is another hindu apologist site. Only a dumb person will do idol worship they waste so much money in this idols this is all Brahmanism india will be never be clean if they keep doing this things…i am so disappointed by your recent actions you lost all your fan who support rational thinking and believe in spirituality rather than following some stupid religion and you still didn’t wrote any article on hindu talibans like VHP,RSS,bajrang dal etc.

    • @Arya

      Look at you…..only a medievalistic mindset will talk like you

      India has no place for people like you who say things like these spreading only hatred

      Your attempts at spreading Brahmanism and casteism wont work here

      Doesn’t have anything more to say to people like you who don’t know the basics of Sanatan Dharma

      Regarding your personality….if anybody says anything against your viewpoints….they are all bad???

      Is that something your mother taught u or did u read it in some book??

      Go read the Vedas and cool down…..gain some knowledge first !!!

    • @Fake Arya

      —-Only a dumb person will do idol worship—–

      And only someone belonging to the family of prostitutes would call others dumb for their harmless beliefs. Dont promote your family business- prostitution here. Do it elsewhere.

      • the best part is the debate is going the wrong direction. idol worship should neither be endorsed nor decried.
        All cannot fathom the nirakar brahma and they can related through an idol, it would be self infliction if we call them stupid rather than proving more info/knowledge and let all raise to the ultimate goal.
        in the mean time we must defend the concept of idol worship and not stand against it as there are so called “monotheistic” CULTS who will quote only “US” to decry them and convert them to their fold. so beware of your actions and its unwanted consequence.

      • @Vajra “belonging to the family of prostitutes would call others dumb for their harmless beliefs. Dont promote your family business- prostitution here” wow that shows your cheap mentality who can’t face criticism. a person who calls himself Vajra uses Vishnu as Dp tags others mother as prostitute your making your family very proud. i smell some hindu jihadi here.
        @jyothish..idiot you are the people you keep Brahmanism alive by idol worship and performing stupid rituals ,astrology and promoting superstitions.
        you people are shaming legendary leaders like raja ram mohan roy and swami…

      • @Fake Arya, So you can call my mother, grand mother and thousands of mothers, my heroes- Rana Pratap, ShivaJi etc dumb and I cant call mother of a pig as prostitute?

      • Thats a very childish argument…..I kepp Brahmanism alive by idol worship

        FYI….I am not an isol worship (for some very personal reasons)

        But I will not be one of those fools who blindly try to discredit idol worship.

        It seem u don’t even know what a Brahmin is….a Brahmin is one who has realized god (Brahman)….how is that “kept alive” by idol worship..? or do u mean to say that idol worhippers are the best because they realize Brahman better and thus become brahmins????

        You are totally confused!!!

        Idol or not….its the individual ability that make one a Brahmin….plz…

      • Your attempts at no idols is just an attempt to bring back the rule of the priest class……and it is you who would shame greats like SDS

        Swami DS in his limited knowledge may have been against idol worshipper……but he would never support a casteist like you…..he would have never supported the supremity of the priest class

        Don’t try to bring your medievalistic attitudes here…….well as i said earlier its maybe your parents fault…..he didnt teach your good manners !!!

  47. Idol worship is a wonderful expression of love adorabl effort of a bahtk to the divine supreme. Our love and devotion needs a expression through physical presence in day to day life. Air is inhaled though invisible but nostrils and heart beat proves it’s presence! As we keep memories of our most beloved with us, so keep an emblem of Almigjty has same importance! Why will Almighty be hurt by any emblem as he clearly dictates that everything and anything is his creation. And a bakht out of extreme love chooses any Form to devote and represent all his love; the purpose is Glory of God. AUM

  49. every living creature on this earth is a an idol worshipper yet majority of them deny. we worship a man as an ideal first and then transform it to idol unknowingly. lovers worship their beloved,keep their photos in pockets,phones and in hearts. they love them for their physical beauty.,we love and try to idolize ourselves for others when we spend hours together before mirror, salons etc. sikhs have paintings of sikh gurus whom they bow and respect. what is the diff. between idol or a portrait/. it is only honour respect and love. can anti idolators show disrespect to photos of their elders ?

  50. @Vajra Well you are a big “ga*du” your comments proves that you are right-wing jihaadi and people like you are making this country saudi…i still won’t call your mother a prostitute but you are a low life swine. This was Āryāvarta followers of Vedas nature worshiper …land of legendary historical figure like lord shiva,goddess sati,king ram,mother sita,lord Krishna, not your stupid rss propaganda version of hindu rastra where people give more importance to religion than science and rational thinking… posting this again because my comment is not showing in the reply maybe of the of slang

Newer Comments »

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here

Stay Connected

0FansLike
0FollowersFollow
91,924FollowersFollow
0SubscribersSubscribe
Give Aahuti in Yajnaspot_img

Related Articles

Load more

Categories

Discover HinduismHistoryMyth BustersSelf-HelpSocietyUncensored
GiveAahuti

About Us

In pursuit of Satya.
Serving Dharma since 2008.

Contact Us

agni[DOT]connect[AT]gmail[DOT]com
(Replace [AT] with @ and [DOT] with .)

© Agniveer® - In pursuit of Satya

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

Agniveer is a registered trademark and enjoys protection from infringement under Trademark laws. All rights reserved.