Note: By Quran we imply the modern Quran and its translations as patronized by dominant representatives of Islam like Zakir Naik et al. There are alternate interpretations by minority scholars who are considered apostates by these dominant representatives and are victimized. These minority views do not form focus of the article. Similarly by Islam and Muslims we mean dominant version of Islam and their representatives/ rulers.
Islam is claimed to be the fastest growing religion by the new prophet of Islam Dr Zakir Naik and his followers. Large section of people inspired by the new messenger can be seen indulged in debating others over the issue of fastest rate of growth of Islam. Interestingly, on one hand, Mullahs in countries like India are assuring the people of other faiths about trueness of Islam through their own census, on the other hand, in Muslim countries like Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq, etc, holy warriors are killing their fellow Muslims for not being true Muslims! But, one thing, which makes Islam different from others, is the spectrum of its preachers starting from Mullahs proving Islam through peaceful speeches to Osamas and Kasabs, who implement the peaceful teachings of Islam through their peaceful actions! That’s apart, today, we shall analyze the claims of muslims about Islam to be the fastest growing religion.
We will pick one by one the claims of Muslims on why Islam is from God, which we have come across quite often, and will scrutinize those in two ways. Comment “a” below every claim will examine it by assuming the claim to be true. Comment “b” will contain the reality of the claim, whether it is right or wrong.
Islam is best and the only religion from God because
Claim 1: it has the following of over 1.5 billion and in few years, Islam will become no. 1 surpassing Christianity.
(a).
(i) Still the majority is with Christians! If number is the criterion of being best, Christianity is better than Islam. Moreover, we can generalize this logic and say that, since non muslims are 5.5 billions (almost 4 times the muslims), non muslims are better and hence Islam is not from God!
(ii) According to Zakir Naik, sinners in the world are increasing. Readers can watch one of his videos answering a question about reincarnation. This is evident from the deeds of people as well. Everyone can see the moral values going down. People have become more selfish and they are no longer ardent devotees of God, as they happened to be in the past. People are not as truthful as the people of past era used to be. So, the number logic says that lies, selfishness, immorality, and atheism are from God as they are practiced the most! Also, sins and Islam both are increasing simultaneously as per Zakir Naik. So, if one is from God because it is increasing, other would also be from God by the same logic. Wise will conclude the rest!
(iii) What about the time when Muhammad started preaching his philosophy? His religion was neither in majority nor was its rate higher. Should not then Islam automatically fails to qualify the majority/highest rate test at least in past?
(iv) Just like Islam today is claimed to have high growth rate, idolatry was at boom some few thousand years ago. Isn’t then idolatry from God? And everything, which either was/is in majority or had/has highest growth rate should be from God by this logic!
(v) Since number is so important for Muslims, then, is it not strange that they believe in just One God and one prophet? Why are not polytheists better than Muslims since they believe in more Gods? Or is it that number logic works opposite here? Can anyone enlighten us, in which case this number logic works, in which, it gets reversed, and in which it does not work at all?
(b). Islam will become number one for sure in terms of population. But the reason behind this is not the people converting to Islam but higher number of babies muslims produce. It is evident from the fact that muslim countries have highest growth rates, which is the result of high birth rates rather than any conversion, since all are already muslims there with nobody to convert.
Claim 2: more and more people are coming to Islam
(a).
(i) Logic of majority/high growth rate has been examined above.
(ii) Islam is the comfort zone for the people fond of lust. Thus people with lower character accept this opportunity to enjoy 72 virgins forever. This is the main reason behind most of the conversions to Islam. Moreover, Islam provides complete package of 4 wives and innumerable concubines to the males in this world itself. This makes Islam favorite for many, who are in search of moral justification to have extra marital relationships!
(iii) It’s true that more and more people are accepting Islam but at the same time, many are leaving it too. If accepting Islam by people is seen as truthfulness of it, why not leaving Islam by many people is a proof of its falsehood?
(b). Zakir Naik says that don’t judge a car by its driver. Thus we should look down to Islamic scriptures to know Islam and not see what the people say or do. One will be called as a muslim only when he does Fard (duty) as per Quran and Hadith.
(i) Today, most of the muslims of Indian sub continent (I am not sure about other muslim countries) worship graves. Nijamuddin Auliya in Delhi, Moinuddin Chishti in Ajmer, Haji Ali in Mumbai, and many others like these are visited by muslims in huge numbers, making these the largest gatherings of muslims anywhere in the world after Hajj. But according to Quran, grave worship is Shirk and Shirk is the only sin, which will not be forgiven! Thus most of the people, who think they are muslims but actually they are not, will go to hell!
(ii) Praying 5 times a day and fasting in the month of Ramdan is also the duty of a muslim. Can Zakir Bhai tell us how many of so called muslims are actual muslims as per the above condition?
(iii) Many hadith say that a muslims should not dress like Kafirs. Many places, it is written that a man’s dress should not hang beneath the ankle. If it is, the man will not be entertained by Allah on the day of resurrection! And interestingly, modern day prophet of many muslims, Zakir himself dresses like Kafirs (wears suit and tie), which has been called Haram by Muhammad!
(iv) Muhammad ordered muslims to grow beard. But today, we see hardly any muslim except Madarsa bred Mullahs having beard.
In short, it can be concluded from the above points that a muslim is the one, who does not do grave worship, does offer prayers five times a day, fasts for whole month of Ramdan, does not wear cloths like Kafirs i.e. pants, shirts, suit, tie etc, does not wear garment which hangs beneath the ankle, has beard as per Islamic norms etc etc. And the one, fails to do any one of the above, will burn in hell forever!
There would hardly be few million people, who actually follow the above norms. If this is the case, Islam is actually the fastest declining religion today and has least number of followers among all religions!
Claim 3: Quran is the most read book of its time
(a). This is yet another logic which many muslims used to give. Again, by this logic, Quran cannot be said as word of God because it was not read as much as other books like Vedas used to be in the past. And today, books like Harry Potter, five point someone etc are read by crores of people, which by number logic, should be from God! One can ask that we are discussing religious scriptures and not the fantasy books or novels and hence Quran cannot be compared with these books. But, we should remember that Quran too is full of the stories of angels, Jinns, Satan, flying donkey, splitting of moon, birth of a baby without father, weeping of trees, stones talking to man, sky as roof supported by invisible pillars, seven skies, heaven, hell, pre decided fates etc. So, for a sensible person, there is hardly any difference between Quran and the stories of Ali Baba Chalis Chor! We have categorically analyzed Quran in our previous articles and we have shown that why cannot Quran be from God. Readers are requested to go through the articles listed under the section “analysis of Islam” in our site.
(b). Indeed, Quran is the most read book in the name of religion, but it is the most hated book of its time as well! So, it cannot be from God since its haters are more than its lovers.
Claim 4: Quran is the only text on the face of the earth, which is free from any tampering
(a). By this logic, every article on this site is from God, since no tampering whatsoever has been done in those!
(b). Actually, this claim of muslims regarding perfectness of Quran is a hoax. There is a dispute among muslim scholars regarding the exact number of verses in Quran. Everyone knows that Shia muslims consider this current Quran to be incomplete and they believe in a Quran, which they say original, which is comprised of 17000 verses, but is not available today. In other sects of Islam, some people estimate about 6236 verses, some say 6349, some even claim 6666! Many even say that some verses were from Satan instead of Allah! After this much of contravention, how can one claim Quran to be free from any interpolation? Moreover, current Quran was compiled much later after the death of Muhammad by his followers, who were fighting each other to spread the message of religion of peace!. In these circumstances, who can believe in the claims of Quran to be unchanged from its beginning?
Claim 5: many hindu Shankaracharyas like Shankaracharya of Banaras has openly announced Muhammad to be the last prophet and Quran to be the final word for whole humanity.
(a).
(i) First of all, we would like to know, can a hindu Shankaracharya, who is a Kafir and believes in idol worship, become source of inspiration for muslims to believe in Islam? If that be so, why not idol worship be accepted by muslims as holy work since Shankaracharya does it?
(ii) Bringing a hindu preacher in an Islamic gathering is itself against the doctrines of Islam. So, the muslims including Zakir Naik should do Tauba for committing this sin. Since muslims are not to believe in the words of Kafir, Shankaracharya should not be taken seriously in the matters of Deen! Hence Islam is not from God.
(b). There is no Shankar Math and hence no Shankaracharya in Banaras by the way!
Claim 6: many famous scientists have embraced Islam.
(a). All the scientists were/are non muslims. Thus, if scientists are to be followed, Islam is not from God!
(b). The fame of those famous scientists is yet to reach non muslims and intellectuals! We are trying to contact IRF regarding these famous (?) scientists but have got no response.
Claim 7: Islam is being accepted by many people in west. Number of women converting to Islam is higher than men. This is the biggest proof that Islam gives highest respect to women.
(a). People of west do many more things like drinking, open sex, multiple partners for both man and woman etc. Do muslims accept these deeds also right? If not, how can the decision of such people accepting Islam be said right? Hence Islam is not from God!
(b). People of west are really coming to Islamic ideology! That is why Zakir Naik has been banned from even entering in Canada and UK. May be, westerns have become so much Islamic that they don’t require outside preachers preach Islam anymore!
Claim 8: Miracle of Kaba being center of the earth has been proven scientifically.
(a). If Kaba is at the center, how does it prove trueness of Islam? Kaba was built by Ibrahim, who was the father of Jewish people. Should not then this miracle of Kaba being the center of earth proves trueness of Judaism instead of Islam?
(b).
(i)Anyway, this is the most foolish thing one can claim! Earth is almost spherical and its center lies inside it. How can Kaba be at the center? Can the center of a sphere lie on its surface? Even if one talks about the surface, every point on the surface of a sphere is geometrically same. Then what is so special about Kaba?
(ii) The scientists, who claimed it, must be Madarsa alumni because science has not become advanced enough to shift the center of gravity of earth from its center to its surface! Of course, Madarsas have the technology of “Kun Fayakun”, which is unique solution to every problem and above all, Allah knows the best!
Claim 9: Miracles of Allah are seen even in animals and birds. For example many goats, cows have been found to have name of Allah and Muhammad written on their backs. Many crows, dogs, and donkeys have been seen to call “Allah Allah”. One can type “miracles of Islam” in youtube and find hundreds of such videos.
(a). It seems that the testimonies of famous (?) scientists, Moulvis, and Shankaracharya were not enough to prove Islam best. Hence people have started giving testimonies of animals in order to show superiority of Islam. Wise choose the path, which other wiser people have chosen. But in Islam, it is other way round. Muslims argue that we should accept Islam because animals say “Allah Allah”! Again the question arises, can deeds of animals be the bench mark for humans? If that be so, why do muslims wear cloths, go to schools/Madarsas, accept the marriage bond, work in offices, wash hands, take bath….? Moreover not all animals say Allah! So again, by number logic, Islam is not from God! Anyway, we give advice to Zakir and his followers, not to follow animals, but follow intelligent.
(b). In reality, the videos of such miracles of Allah are nothing more than the laughter shows! Readers can themselves see those videos and get a heavy dose of laughter. Those videos are even more entertaining than those of stage performer Zakir Naik. All I can say, it is the biggest mockery of Islam and Allah by muslims themselves in the name of miracles.
Claim 10: People are leaving other religions to accept Islam but no muslim leaves Islam.
(a). This is obvious as Islam orders to kill the one, who leaves it. This is the reason why is Islam a one way trap, in which one can enter but cannot come out. Biggest reason behind this is the coward mentality of muslims of not allowing non muslims to preach in their countries. One can see heights of fanaticism of Muslims that they want freedom of speech in every country and they enjoy converting others. But they don’t have guts to let others preach their religion among muslims.
(b). This claim is false though! There have been great scholars within Islam, who openly criticized many doctrines of it. For example, Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, the biggest Islamic educationist of India, founder of Aligarh Muslim University, openly denied the existence of Satan. He criticized many other beliefs as well and as a result, fatwa was issued that he is a Kafir! Anwar Shaikh, another eminent scholar of Islam from Pakistan, calls Islam, “The Arab Imperialism”! He was cremated instead of burying as per his wish to die as Vedic follower. He was very proud of his Vedic culture and ancestors. Another notable scholar from Pakistan is Ghulam Jelani Barq, who completely rejected the hadith! He was also listed as Kafir by the mullahs. Today, Ali Sina, Parvin Darabi, Wafa Sultan, Parvez Hoodbhoy, Tariq Ali, Imam Mehboob Ali, and many more are criticizing Islam greater than any non muslim. They all were born in Islamic families. So according to this logic, Islam is false because many scholars have left it!
After analyzing these claims, we can conclude that fanatics like Zakir Naik are spreading the hoax of Islamic superiority based on their own false census of highest conversion rate. People are being fooled by the so called experts of comparative religion in the name of childish logic, self created census, and science. We have seen that how mocking was it to claim Islam best because some animals said “Allah Allah”. In the end, we request everyone to think rationally and then take a decision. Crowded place should not be the destination of intellectuals. Rather, it should be based on logic and morality.
“Follow the right path, irrespective of how many people are with you. Don’t reject the truth even if you are alone and whole world is against you, because in the end, it is only truth, which will prevail” -Rigved
Fabulous Article, it will be useful to refute claims of fanatic muslims, that claim islam to be the best
I will pray to Allah to give you hidayat and make you understand the holy Quran. I can judge your knowledge when you address Zakir Naik as a prophet. Have you understood your own religion? It’s not new for Muslims to come across false propaganda. All your claims are based on weak knowledge. It seems from your article that you are petrified by the growing influence of Muslims. Calm down. Allah says in the Quran chapter no.2 verse no.53 Innallaha Ma Sabreen meaning “Allah is with the patient ones”. I will try to answer few of your hallucinating questions. Few, because I have to answer many like you.
Answer to Claim no.1- Can you produce any proof that any Islamic country is on the verge of population explosion? Just brush up your knowledge and let me know which country has the largest and the second largest population in the world? Are they Islamic countries? There you are. I think you got the answer.
Answer to claim no.2- A person enjoys the most when he can have sex and yet not being answerable to anyone. If you give option to any men, enjoy sex without marrying and without anybody knowing it or enjoy sex by marrying and giving her due. Most of the people will prefer the first option. It is this tendency that Islam wants to put an end to. By marrying he is actually taking the responsibility of the girl and the child resulting out of such wedlock. Allah says in the holy Quran chapter no. 4 verse no.3 “If you fear that you might not treat the orphans justly, then marry the women that seem good to you: two, or three, or four. If you fear that you will not be able to treat them justly, then marry only one”. Verse no.4 “Give women their bridal due in good cheer but if they willingly remit any part of it, consume it with good pleasure”. Verse no.7 “Just as there is a share for men in what their parents and kinsfolk leave behind, so there is a share for women in what their parents and kinsfolk leave behind-be it little or much- a share ordained by Allah”. Which religion gives share to women in the property? Verse no.19 “Believers! It is not lawful for you to become heirs to women against their will.” Verse no.25 Marry with the leave of their guardians, and give them their bridal due in a fair manner that they may live in the protection of wedlock rather than be either mere objects of lust or given to secret love affairs”. As for marrying 4 times, it is not compulsory. In other religion people could marry even hundred times as ther was no upper limit. It was only after certain marriage act was passed that people were prohibited to marry more than once. So you see it is as per the law and not as per religion.
Regarding visiting graves, yes I do say if one prostrates before the grave then it is Haraam and should not be done but if one goes and recites surah fatiha (reciting dua) then it’s ok.
Coming to the dress code in Islam as per your knowledge. Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) never said don’t wear shirt or a pant. Growing beared is sunnat and not compulsory.
Your claim that there are hardly few million people who are following the norms set by Islam is really very baffling because I didn’t know that you spent your entire life knocking at the doors of Muslims and finding out how many of them follow Islamic principles. Keep it up champ good work.
Answer to claim no.3 Muslims never say that since the holy Quran is the most read book so it is the word of God. To know that the holy Quran is the world of Allah, you will have to read the entire Quran with open mind of course and you should think above Ali baba and chalees chor or harry potter.
Answer to claim no.4 Islam doesn’t depend on what people are saying or not saying. People might say there are 1 lakh verses or only one verse. For every allegation there has to be proof. Produce the proof and paste it on your website regarding difference in verses.
Answer to claim no.5 It is not the question of shankaracharya being a source of inspiration. It’s only that people of other communities have acknowledged the holy Quran and the last prophet (p.b.u.h). If bringing a Hindu preacher in Islamic gathering had been against Islamic doctrine then today there would have been no Muslims. The message of Islam was preached to non Muslims then they became Muslims.
Answer to claim no.6 If any scientists or actors or cricketers convert or not convert is not an issue.
The point is weather people are accepting Islam or not.
Answer to claim no.7 You rightly said that people in west do many thing like open sex multiple partners, drinking wine etc and how can the decision of such people to accept Islam be right? Here I would like to point out that once such people accept Islam they leave all these sinful acts at once. This shows that the holy Quran is the word of Allah. Your claim no.7.b. itself is the answer. People of west are really coming to Islamic ideology! That is why Zakir Naik has been banned from even entering in Canada and UK. Got it what I m trying to say.
Answer to claim no.8 Islam is not 1400 years old as you people think. Islam is in existence since Adam and eve. All the prophets and the messengers taught the same thing that is obey one god and believe in the prophets. Since all the holy books were tampered, the holy Quran was sent as the last and final guidance. So weather it is Judaism or Christianity it was all the same. The Kaba was made by prophet Ibrahim (p.b.u.h) and we believe in him.
Answer to claim no.9 I don’t know which sects of Muslim are you following who argue that since animals say Allah Allah so you should convert to Islam. By the way in olden days there were no animals that used to say Allah Allah and yet people converted to Islam in large numbers.
Answer to claim no.10 Go to any Islamic country your will find church, gurudwara or temples. The number of people accepting Islam is very high but leaving Islam is very mininmal. Regarding criticizing Islam by scholars, there will always people who will criticize the one who is the most noble on this earth. If the scholars criticize Islam that doesn’t mean Islam is bad. After all there were people who criticized Gandhiji, Bhagat Singh was criticized by people who were with the britishers, Nelson Mandela was put behind the bars. Do you think these people were bad.
In the end I will quote your own quote from rigved “Follow the right path, irrespective of how many people are with you. Don’t reject the truth even if you are alone and whole world is against you, because in the end, it is only truth, which will prevail”
so my dear friend follow the truth which u cannot see.
Dear Tanveer, Very well said, you have definitely answered all points that this forum is accusing on Islam. May Allah reward you for your efforts in clearing misconception or rather criticism of this forum. May Allah give hidaya to the representatives of this forum too, to turn to the right path. Ameen. Pls keep up good work. If i were in place (Allah na karey) of Satyagni, I would have definitely got convinced to the replies of the muslim posting on this forum and would have accepted the truth. What a honor in Islam it is to accept the truth as Allah will erase all our past sins however big it may be, once we have accepted the truth and our account will be like a clean slate. I see many non-muslims who have accepted Islam, have changed their life in the true cause, as per shariah, and they have been better examples then we muslim ourselves. May Allah give nek taufiq to muslims also. Ameen.
Try giving taufeeq to meeeee.
Let the christain west declare crusades, islam will be the fastest decimated religion.
ALHAMDULILLAH
@Tanveer
Brother I will analyze your claims one by one.
Claim 1. Where did author claim that any islamic country is on verge of population explosion or Islamic countries have highest population? Satyagni is talking about growth rate and not population. There is a difference between population growth rate and population. Think you have got it!
2. Why did not you write even a word for verses of Quran which allow Muslims to keep women as sex slaves? Muhammad himself kept Rehana (a girl from Bani Qureza, a Jewish tribe) forcefully as his slave after she refused to marry him. What is the justification for doing so? Muhammad allowed his warriors to rape the women of enemies during war. Now you can say like other muslim brothers that Muhammad was given special status because he was Nabi!
And you are smart enough to quote incomplete verse of Quran [4:3], remaining part of which, I am giving for the readers- “or [a captive] that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” . It clearly mentions keeping sex slaves as option for polygamy.
Can you please tell us that why did Muhammad marry more than four if it was against Allah’s orders?
Regarding beard, lets look at two quotes one from Sahih Bukhari and another from Quran-
“Narrated Nafi’: “Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, ‘Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short” [Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 780]
O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. [Quran, 4:59]
Above two are sufficient to prove that growing beard is necessary for Muslims. And the reason behind this is said to maintain difference between the idolaters and Muslims and thus wearing shirts and pants is again prohibited as non muslim idolaters wear pants etc.
Regarding graves, question was not of right or wrong! Fact remains that most of the muslims go to graves for “Mannat”.
3. The article covers the different claims given by different groups. So comment on those which you believe in and leave the rest.
4. Now you say that Islam does not depend on what people say or do. And Zakir Naik says that Islam is the fastest growing religion and thus it is best! Whom should I believe? Anyway, can you tell me how many verses are there in your Quran?
5. If allowing Non Muslims preachers among Muslims gathering is not prohibited then why cant a Non Muslim preach his/her religion in Islamic countries?
6. Your points 4 and 6 contradict each other!
7. Decision of accepting Islam by perverts and drinkers carries no weight for wise. And they are assured of getting 72 houris and many boys and of course rivers of wine forever in heaven! So they sacrifice the joy of few days for endless brothel called Jannat. 7 b was for those who consider Zakir as their prophet!
8. So Islam has nothing to do with Muhammad and Quran, right? OK. I want to accept Islam provided I dont need to believe in Muhammad and Quran and I will not include Muhammad’s name in Kalima. In that case, I am already a Muslim!
9. We are saying the same thing. Please see hundreds of Videos on youtube and you will find thousands of comments on such videos!
10. Gandhiji was criticized by Muhammad Ali, a Muslim leader and he claimed that though Gandhi is a noble man but he will burn in hell because he is a kafir. So he should accept Islam!
And this is what we want to say! Brother, accepting Islam by many people is not a proof of it being best. Article just countered the claims of Muslims and in your reply, you also did the same thing! Brother, please read the article again. The analysis has been done in two ways. One by accepting the claim and other by examining the claim whether it is true or false. All the analysis under first way has been done in a way that if the claim is accepted, the reverse should also be accepted by the same logic.
In the end, I would say that Quote from Rigved should be followed by those who claim the superiority of their religion based on its fastest growth and miracles.
May Eeshvar show us right path.
1.If you want the level of discussion to stoop very low then it’s your problem. Even I can make wild allegations. As I said earlier every allegation has to be backed by proper proof. Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) allowed soldiers to rape women? Can you give me one authentic proof of the same or the proof of forcibly detaining Rehana? My dear friend Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) was such a powerful person, he could have built castles and women would have come willingly without any force. Then to he choose to live a very simple life and ordered Muslims to live like a traveller.
2.Regarding the omission of the verse in which marrying the captives are allowed. So what is the harm in doing that? If women are left alone there are definitely people who will try to take advantage of their loneliness. So it’s better to marry and protect her. In fact you are omitting the verse in which the holy Quran says Chapter no.4 “Verse no.19 “Believers! It is not lawful for you to become heirs to women against their will.” It’s very clear that you don’t have to marry her forcibly.
3.Prophet married more than 4 times because at that time it was not prohibited to marry more than 4 times. In that case not only Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) but any other person could marry more than 4 times. The moment Quranic verse prohibiting more than 4 wives was revealed; he immediately divorced the rest and kept only 4. He could have said that since I am a Prophet Allah has allowed me to keep more than 4 wives, but he was a man of truthfulness and principles and did what Allah ordained him to do.
4.Your quotation of Sahih Bukhari, volume 7 Book 72 is true but you yourself have not understood. In those times some Muslims used to keep moustache and beard like others. That is why they were told to trim their moustache and grow their beards so that they can be differentiated. As I mentioned earlier it is sunnat and not compulsory to keep beard.
5. Islam is the best that it why it is the fatest growing religion and not the other way round. Even if Dr.Zakir Naik said the other way round I don’t find anything wrong.
6.Any Muslim however illiterate he or she might be, will never say Zakir Naik is a prophet. It is just your hallucination or may be a wild dream.
7.Regarding preaching by non Muslims in Islamic countries, well if in Saudi or many Islamic countries if they found you carrying a photo of any mazaar like that of khwaja gharib nawaz then they will tear it there itself. Now tell me was khawaja gharib nawaz a Muslim or a hindu. So my dear in Islamic countries if they don’t allow you to preach then it is not because of your religion but because what you do. In hindu religion there is no idol worship but yet people do it. Go and find out the definition of God in Rigved.
8.Only those who understand Islam will convert to Islam. If you tell a drug addict don’t take drugs you will get 72 hoors in paradise. Do you think he will stop taking drugs? No, but if he is convinced that he will have face God for all his actions and will be punished for his wrong deeds, then he will convert to Islam and not just because of hoors. Regarding hoors in paradise, well you must have heard of apsara’s in your religion as well. A person who never drinks, never steals, does all righteous things for the fear of Allah, is bound to get his reward so what is wrong if he gets 7 hoors or 72 hoors for the good deeds he has done. Do you mean to say that after all the struggle of this life the man should struggle in paradise also? So what’s the point?
9. You say there are hundreds of videos on youtube. I say there are thousands of videos on youtube and hundreds of books published every day against Islam. Allahamdullilah Islam and Muslims have been least affected by this propaganda.
10. I don’t know whether Mohammed Ali criticized Gandhiji or not but I surely know who killed Gandhiji.
Now I came to know why you are not getting any response from IRF. The problem with you people is not the lack of knowledge but the mind set. Even you people know whatever you say doesn’t have any value since it is not backed by any authentic proof. Hope to continue this debate.
Tanveer
Don’t have enough time to reply you in detail. However, here are some proofs where muhammad allowed rape of women by his soldiers:
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717-718:
Narrated Ibn Aun:
I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn ‘Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn ‘Umar was in that army.
I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, “We went with Allah’s Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the ‘Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah’s Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, “It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence.”
Some more traits of “Powerful Muhammad”
The History of Tabari, vol. 8, p. 29-30:
From his share of captive women, prophet gave his son-in-law, Ali a slave girl, Raytah bt Hilal to enjoy her at his will. He also presented Uthman b. Affan, his son-in-law, another slave girl Zainab b. Hayan, and bestowed another girl (name unknown) to his father in-law Omar Ibn Khattab. Omar gave that girl to his son Abdullah. Most of Prophet’s other elite companions received slave girls as gifts…
Regarding Point 2. refer 4:24
And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle]; this is what God has prescribed for you.
And this is what Ibn Kathir has to say about this verse:
The Ayah (verses) means Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.), you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married, except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, “We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah (verse) was revealed, Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Accordingly, we had sexual relations with these women.” (Alternate translation can be: as a result of these verses, their (Infidels) wives have become lawful for us) This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa’i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih.
Hope this would suffice for you to understand that why is IRF running from Satyagni.
Also I hope you would continue this debate and not run away like Zakir Bhai MBBS
You have just mentioned volume3 book no.46, no.717. Please let me know the name of the book.
Firstly, it should be borne in mind that slavery was not something that was introduced by Islam; on the contrary, it was something that had its roots planted long before the advent of Islam. Before Islam the prisoners of war were raped and brutally killed.
When Islam came and prospered, its power was challenged by the enemies of Islam and the need to go to war arose. By that time, slavery had virtually become an international custom. It was also rife among the Arabs from the days of darkness and ignorance. Thus, abolishing it instantaneously would have caused chaos among the Arab people. Hence, a process of gradual extirpation had to be implemented. Moreover, if the Muslims would set all their enemy-prisoners free and tolerate their fellow Muslims being captured and enslaved by the enemies, it would have lead to a sharp decrease in the Muslim military force and given a great advantage to the enemy forces.
Prophet Mohmammed (p.b.u.h) enjoined his followers to treat the slaves kindly, gently, and, above all, to regard them as members of the family. In this way, they were made to feel wanted; which was far better than treating them as outcasts and leaving them to wander the streets of a strange society in a peniless, destitute condition. Such treatment would have ultimately forced them to take up evil occupations such as prostitution in the case of slave woman in order to fill their hungry stomachs. The First World War in 1914 was a clear reflection of the evils involved in setting captive women left in a strange society with strange surroundings. During that war, German and English women prisoners on either side were set free to roam the streets with no-one to feed them. The result was obvious that they resorted to other unrefined and uncivilised methods of income on the streets. Thus, it is evident that the Islamic treatment of women prisoners of war was conducive towards better social relations and led to the refinement of their overall social lives.
Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam also taught that whosoever teaches good manners to his slave girl, adorns her with politeness and good education, then frees her and gets married to her, for him there is double recompense and reward. These encouraging teachings served as incentives towards the emancipation of slaves and slaves were liberated by the thousands. Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam himself freed many slaves, Hazrat Abu Bakr Radhiallahu Anhu freed 63, Hazrat Abdur-Rahman bin Auf Radhiallahu Anhu 30,000; Hazrat Hakim bin Huzam Radhiallahu Anhu 100; Hazrat Abbas Radhiallahu Anhu 70; Hazrat Ayesha Radhiallahu Anha 69; Hazrat Abdullah bin Umar Radhiallahu Anhu 100; Hazrat Uthman Radhiallahu Anhu used to free one slave every Friday and he would say that he would tree any slave who performed his prayers with humility. Hazrat Zul-Kilah Radhiallahu Anhu freed 8,000 slaves in a single day.
There are many similarities between marriage and possession of a slave woman. That just as the wife becomes a dependant of the husband and he has to provide a home, food and clothing for her, a slave woman also becomes a dependant of her owner and he has to provide a home, food and clothing for her. Yet another similarity is this that just as marriage makes the close relatives of the wife Haraam upon the husband; i.e. he cannot get married to his wife’s mother, grandmother, sister, etc., similarly if a man has copulated with a slave woman the slave woman’s close relatives also become Haraam upon the owner. With all these similarities it does not make sense to regard copulation with a slave woman distasteful whilst copulation with one’s wife is not regarded as distasteful.
The prophet always told his soldiers to behave well with their captives. Special instructions were given not to attack unarmed people, women, old, and children. Hazrat Bilal was a slave and one of the earliest to convert to Islam. Why? It was because of the good attitude of Islam towards the slaves.
Coming to your question of practising coitus interruptus. This itself shows that the women slaves were not raped. If the soldiers wanted they would have raped the women prisoners of war and thrown them on the streets.Why go all the way to ask the prophet about the way to have sex? It was just to know whether it was the halal way or not. It was something like asking if abortion is permissible or not. Further, the child born out of such relations were given full rights of a father.
Throughout your article you have just given importance on sex with slave girls and the good treatment meated out to them. This shows that you don’t want to accept the facts with open mind.
Regarding the history of Tabari, Imam Tabari himself clearly says in the introduction of his book that the narrations found in his book are only as good as the people who narrate them. The compiler of the book himself does not view all of the narrations as authentic.
I would like to end with Quranic verse “As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur – A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance. They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day whose evil flies far and wide. And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive- (Saying),”We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.” (Surah Al Insan 76:5-9)
@Tanveer
Sahih Bukhari
what god do u believe in?
i believe that I am some kind of super god.
1st para I referred to is Sahih Bukhari – Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717-718:
@Tanveer
Namaste brother,
1,2. Here is the proof of Muhammad allowing his Mujahideen to rape women
Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3371:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-’azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
Book 008, Number 3373:
Abu Sa’id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl (coitus interruptus) with them. We then asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born.
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s Apostle about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.”
And Rehana story can be read in Seerat ul Rasoolallah by Ibn Ishaq.
3. Marrying one two or three is more related to common sense and one’s character rather than any revelation. God has created males and females equal in numbers, which is the proof that polygamy/polyandry are wrong. And anyone who is claimed to be a prophet is supposed to possess a minimum level of common sense and character.
Now it is proven that you have not read Quran and Ahadith! I challenge you to show me the proof from authentic Hadith that Muhammad divorced his rest of the wives after he got revelation of maximum 4 wives. You are lying. Brother Tanveer! This is not the right place to do Taqiya. Now catch the verse of Quran which expose your lies further-
Quran [33:50]- “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated [from Makka] with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers [at large]; We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
4. And I proved from Quran+Hadith that growing beard is necessary!
5. Your statement contradicts itself!
6. This is what Muslims used to say before Qadiyani sect came into being!
7. Brother, this is not what I asked! I wrote about preaching and not carrying any photo! Tell me, I follow Vedas and dont believe in/keep idols. I believe in one God. Can I preach in Saudi? In the article, it was asked that can a Hindu Shankaracharya, who believes in idol worship, who does not offer prayers 5 times, be invited in Islamic gathering to deliver lecture over Deen? If a Kafir’s words have weight for you in the matters of religion, why dont you listen to millions of other Kafirs, who criticize Islam for many of its inhumane teachings?
By the way, dont forget to go through the articles on Vedas on this site, you would get more from Vedas about God and us!
8. Who told you that a muslim will be punished for his wrong deeds? Quran at many places says that Allah forgives the sins of believer! Quran [33:71, 35:7, 39:5, 53, 40:3, 7,42, 42:5, 25……]
Now look it from different perspective! Whatever sin I have committed, I am assured by Allah to be forgiven if I accept Islam! And then I will get Hoors and Ghilmaan hereafter for eternity! And point is that one can never meet/experience Allah as he will be surrounded by wine, hoors and ghilmaans every time! Its very interesting that the result of noble deeds of Muslim friends like Namaaz end at rivers of wine and virgins of transparent clothes and bodies!
But what is the provision for those who want to be in the state of bliss with God and dont want wine and virgins? Why does not Islam has any concept of Moksha, state of ultimate bliss, which is beyond every materialistic desire, as described in Vedas?
9. Miracles are claimed by Muslims themselves, its not me who is claiming such things my friend!
10. And first 3 of 4 Muslim Caliphs were killed by Muslims themselves. Guru Arjan Dev, Haqiqat Rai, Guru Teg Bahadur, Pandit Lekhram, Swami Shraddhanand, Mahashay Raajpaal etc, who were the leaders of Hindu community were killed by Muslim Ghazis. What is your point my friend?
May Eeshvar give us strength to accept truth and reject falsehood.
Regarding your first point of having sex with slaves. Please refer to my reply given in this forum earlier. (Just above your post)
First of all it is not compulsory to marry 4 times but it is an option. Quran deals with problems related to the entire world and not just a specific one. Do you know so many women are thrown out from their homes just because they cannot bear a child? Even if the husband is good, there is always a pressure from the family. Here Islam has given an option to keep the first wife and marry the second one and to treat them equally. Will another man marry a women that has been divorced and that to for not bearing a child? Now don’t say that doesn’t happen. During war mostly male members of the family are killed and the widows are left vulnerable at the hands of the society. One can marry such widows and give them protection. Now you can say how clever, why the Muslims can’t treat these widows as sisters. My dear friend if one takes these women as sisters then there is no contract between the two and as such there is no legal binding. If the person suffers any financial problem then he might think twice to keep on supporting such women and might ultimately leave her. Secondly, what if the women herself develops a different feeling for the man supporting her or vice versa. Thirdly, what about her physical needs? Who will fulfil them? She might go out of the way to curb her physical needs. All these things can be tackled by marrying such women. After marriage if the man suffers from any difficulty then too he will have to support her the children resulting out of such wedlock. Even if he divorces then also he will have to give her money.
Yes I m bang on target. It was just to test people like you. It means that you have studied the Quran and the hadeeth that is why you know that prophet didn’t divorce his wife. The only thing is that you take out specific verses out of context and post them on your forum.
The reason for marrying eleven wives was for social reasons and to spread the message of Islam. If he had the liking for women then why would he marry women 15 years older to him. At the time of his first marriage Khadija was 40 years of age. At the age of twenty-five, then, and in the prime of life, Muhammad (p.b.u.h) married Khadijah, a woman much his senior in years. For twenty-three years, his life with Khadijah was a period of uninterrupted contentment in perfect fidelity.
In the eighth year of prophet hood, however, Khadijah passed away and the Prophet was once again single, as he had been until the age of twenty-five, though now with children. His enemies cannot deny, but are forced to admit that, during all these long years, they cannot find a single flaw in his moral character. During the lifetime of Khadijah, the Prophet took no other wife, although public opinion among his people would have allowed him to do so had he wished to. After Khadijah’s death, he lived a single life for four or five years.
All his other marriages began after he reached the age of fifty-five, an age by which very little real interest and desire for marriage remains. People like you mean to say that till the age of 55 he was not lustful and all of a sudden he began liking women. So the allegation that his marriages after this age were an expression of self-indulgence is totally baseless. If you want more details then I can dedicate 100s of pages on the reasons for prophet’s marriage.
You are talking about the qadiyani sects. Why should I worry about the different sects? Did Quran say so?
If you say you believe in one God then what is the harm in accepting Islam? If you follow any religion then you have to follow it in totality. If you say I am a hard worker but I will work only for 4 hours. Will your boss accept it? Definitely he will fire you from the job. In order to work properly you will have to dedicate a fixed number of hours as per the company in which you are working then only you will achieve success and get promotion. Not only in religion, in any field, have you had to dedicate yourself completely in order to achieve success.
You say Muslims won’t be punished for their wrong deeds. This is the height of foolishness. I will answer your quotes [69-71] “O you who have believe, do not be like those who had realigned Moses; then Allah cleared him of what they said of him, and he was honorable in the sight of Allah. O believers fear Allah and say the right thing: Allah will adorn your deeds and will overlook your errors whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, has indeed attained a great success”.
Just by keeping your names as Yusuf or Imran one doesn’t become a Muslim. A person becomes Muslim by his deeds. Prophet Moses was ridiculed for his preaching so Allah says do not be like those who realigned Moses.
[5-7] O people, the promise of Allah is surely true. Therefore, let not the worldly life deceive you, nor let that great deceiver deceive you concerning Allah. Indeed, Satan is your enemy; therefore, you also should treat kiln as your enemy. He is inviting his followers towards his way so that they may join the dwellers of Hell. Those who disbelieve shall have a severe punishment, and those who believe and do good works shall have forgiveness and a rich reward.
In the above verse the disbelievers applies to Muslims as well. If you believe but does not do good work will also be punished. There are so many verses which I can show you which indicates that even Muslims will be punished.
Do I need to explain something more? It means you have to fear Allah and say the right thing then Allah will forgive you. If Muslims won’t be punished then why to pray 5 times, give Zakat, fast for the entire month, go for pilgrimage follow the hadeeth and the Quran?
Why don’t you be the first one to go and achieve moksha. You mean to say a man or women should shun all his responsibilities, go to a Jungle and attain moksha. If there had not been any desire you and me would not been here. Islam also teaches to control desire but in practical way and not by running away from the responsibilities.
Please review your point no. 10 because I didn’t get your point of “Muslim caliphs being killed by Muslims’ think you have made a mistake while typing.
@Tanveer
Namaste brother,
1. My first point was that “Muhammad allowed his men to rape women” and not any “sex with slaves”! Brother Tanveer, dont try to create question yourself and then answer it. You wrote in your second last comment-
“Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) allowed soldiers to rape women? Can you give me one authentic proof of the same”
I gave you proof. what is left now? You wrote hundreds of words on justifying sex slavery, which I have not even touched as yet and not even a word about what I asked!
2. So you were testing my Islamic knowledge and I cleared the test! But I feel sorry to say that you have failed in the test! Can anyone, who continued with an act which is against Allah’s will, be said as prophet even if it was done for social reasons?
3. If concept of forgiveness for Muslims is foolishness, Quran is full of such ….. and its makers too. And yes, you can give many verses which say that even Muslims will be punished! But it will merely prove Quran to be the biggest self contradictory text and nothing else. Anyone can read the verses which I referred in my last comment regarding forgiveness for Muslims. And you say that if one prays 5 times, gives Zakat, fasts for the entire month, goes for pilgrimage follows the hadeeth and the Quran then he will be forgiven! I am saying the same thing. This is what a Muslim is! I also said that Muslims will be forgiven! What is your point?
4. You say that Muhammad married 11 wives, and this is the age by when very little interest and desire for women remains. But Ahadith are full of Muhammad’s incidents, which prove him to be lustful. One of which is that once he saw a woman somewhere. He came back to his home and did sex with one of his wives and ordered his followers to do the same with their wives when they see any woman. Another fact is that he used to go to all of his wives every night! Dont want to comment on these. You can yourself conclude.
5. Talking about monogamy is shunning from the responsibility in your eyes and its just a necessary condition to be called as human in our Dharm. For you, marrying 4 times in general and 11 times in particular is not only justified but even glorified! But for us, its just the sign of animals. Please dont get offended. Whoever married more than one, be it Dashrath of Ramayan or Muhammad of Quran, can not be said as noble.
6. I gave reasons that why should not one believe in Islam! In my Dharm, believing in One Eeshvar is sufficient and there is nothing like an agent in between, whom I need to remember 5 times a day with Eeshvar. I cant be Muslim without believing in Muhammad. But you can be Vedic without believing in any person! Choice is yours.
I invite you to Vedic Dharm of actual Tauheed!
@Tanveer
And point 10 was perfectly OK.
@Tanveer
brother, I am already given hidayat by Allah/Ishwar, that is why I am commenting on this site and answering your questions, had you had hidayat, you wouldnt be asking such stupid questions even after reading a nice detailed article.
1) The article talks about islam growing not by country, but growing in general, so get that straight!!
2)See, it is sad how you shamelessly defend sex as an enjoyment. So, Islam is a religion to solve the problem of having multiple sex, now tell me, how can a noble enlightened man follow such religion? How can a man be disgusting enough to have more than one wife and on top of that keep sex slaves? I strongly pity people like you, and even more for your sisters and mothers. If you want to help a woman who is divorced, what is the need to get intimate with her, can you not help her as a sister??? Suppose every muslim marries four women, what will their kids tell everyone, that they all have one father in common, will that not hurt and disgrace the child henceforth?
As far as graves go, go and see today, still muslims bow before graves. Muslims are all hypocrites, they condemn hindus for being idolators but they are greatest idolators when they bow before graves and blackstones.
3)Can you tell me which Quran is the word of God??? Some Qurans have 6666 verses, some have 17 000 verses, so let me know. Besides, its better to read Harry Potter over Quran since Harry Potter does not contain verses or orders of having sex slaves.
4)Did you know the new prophet in town named Zakir Naik, who openly declares that every muslim should be a terrorist and also says that apostates should be killed as per Sharia and no other religions should be followed in islamic countries?? What have you got to say about him?
5)Now, this shows double standards of muslims like you, for example, if a woman is raped, islam orders four muslim men to testify, but not kafirs. Now, in the case of religion, muslims accept kafirs praising and testifying about islam, why this double standard??? I thought religion is considered far more important than any incident on earth.
6)Many muslims dance up and down if a star even praises islam, have you forgotten about the Neil Armstrong incident??? Some muslim cunningly spread the news that Neil Armstrong converted to islam, but later on, Neil himself declared that he never converted, then all of you muslims fell flat. So, as you can see, it is a big issue, but you people enjoy deceiving.
7)You have just proven islam to be a lustful cult. Drinkers, Sex workers, and other low life people accepted islam because your mullahs promote islam by telling them that they will get all this stuff in heaven for eternity and in countless quantities, so all they have to do is give it up here on earth. Have u ever noticed only low charactered people accepted islam???? Have you ever seen good charactered or enlightened personalities accepting islam??? America or western countries are dominant of this low level life style so its obvious that only people in these countries will be interested in such religion>>>>>>rivers of alcohol, virgins for sex, little boys for pedophiles, wow, what more can these people want?? Did you know, many criminals accept islam too, and the reasons are obvious.
8)This is one real good joke that I am always eager to laugh on. Islam existed since inception??? Do you have any proofs for this??? Quran is the only scripture that authenticates islam, so do you mean to say Quran is not 1400 years old but has been there since inception?? What proofs do you have to claim Adam was muslim??? Do you have any proof that he prayed five times a day? Do you have any proof that he bowed down before the kaaba?? Do you have any proof that he said Allahu Akbar??? Do you have any proof that be believed in prophet Mohammad as the last messenger? If he believed in mohammad as the last messenger, then how is that possible since mohammad did not exist that time? If Adam did not believe in mohammad as the last messenger, then he cant be muslim because today in order to be muslim, one must believe in allah alone and muhummad as the last prophet and other sects vary on this concept.
So Allah sent revelations right?? Why did He not give the first one at the start, without sending updated versions? This means Allah’s knowledge is imperfect and imcomplete.
9)We are just saying what you people praise about, just because clouds or rocks or even fruits may have a design that looks like Allah’s name, all of you gear up claiming islam to be the religion of truth. According to that logic, I have seen my name on clouds, does it imply I am a prophet or something??
10) Here is what you said “Go to any Islamic country your will find church, gurudwara or temples”
now brother tell me, will i find a mandir, a church, or a gurudwara in Saudi Arabia??????????/
Brother i am ready to accept islam right now, if you show me a single mandir or church in Saudi Arabia.
Why dont you go visit http://www.faithfreedom.org, and see how many people left islam???/
The reason leaving islam is minimial compared to people coming into it is because muslims are threatened to be killed if they choose to abandon islam, did you not read the sharia law???? Islam is only a one way street of entrance only. Otherwise, I bet many people in countries like pakistan and saudi want to free themselves from the clutches of islam.
Islam and Noble can never go together, I agree there are some good things in islam like zakat but there are many nasty things like sex slaves, virgins in paradise, apostate killing, etc.
I hope after going through the answers of me and my brother Arya, you read the same passage from RigVeda which you quoted at the end of you talk, and reject the falsehood of islam.
Brother from now onwards I won’t enjoy sex but instead I will cry while having sex. Only insane people can say not to enjoy sex. Sex is permissible while done in a legal way. No religion prohibits sex. Psychiatrist will be able to help you.You are talking as if sex slaves are available in the market and can be purchased as and when you want. Please give me the address of those who are keeping sex slaves. I have answered about the treatment given to so called sex slaves in Islam in the previous forum.
You are talking about keeping women who need help to be kept as sisters. My dear friend if one takes these women as sisters then there is no contract between the two and as such there is no legal binding. If the person suffers any financial problem then he might think twice to keep on supporting such women and might ultimately leave her. Secondly, what if the women herself develops a different feeling for the man supporting her or vice versa. Thirdly, what about her physical needs? Who will fulfil them? She might go out of the way to curb her physical needs. All these things can be tackled by marrying such women. After marriage if the man suffers from any difficulty then too he will have to support her and the children resulting out of such wedlock. Even if he divorces then also he will have to give her money. This point I have clearly mentioned in the above forum.
You are talking about our sisters and mothers. Don’t worry brother we are more bothered about them then you. That is why we give them equal rights in our property. After the death of her husband we allow them to marry if they want to and not throw them in funeral pyre of her husband or shave off her head and keep them in separate room. We encourage them to cover themselves up. We give them their bridal due at the time of marriage. We don’t kill our girl child. Please let me know if you want details of “Women’s rights in Islam”
Show me how many Muslims have married 4 times. It is not compulsory to marry 4 times. There are many conditions attached for marrying 4 times and you have to treat all the them equally.People like u use this tool very often to malign Muslims but Alhamdulillah Muslims are least affected.
Regarding graves I myself agree there are many Muslims who go to Dargahs. What are you trying to prove? There are many Muslims who drink. You cannot blame the entire community.
Quran is only one. The one with 17,000 verses is news to me. There are few people in our community like you. These people might have come up with a different Quran to gain some publicity.
Yes I know Zakir Naik and also know that he is not a prophet. You people have done Ph.D in “quoting out of context.” Zakir naik said every Muslim should be terrorists for anti social elements and not for common people. This shows that your standard of discussion has really fallen down and you just want to criticize Muslims by hook or by crook.
Are you a detective agent in some Muslim area because you know everything about Muslims like they dance up and down on any miracle, if they convert and then try to revert they will be killed etc etc.We never needed Neil Armstrong to spread the message of Islam.
If Islam is for low profile and low character people then you should also convert to Islam right away because to me you seem to be from the same category. By the way was Michael Jackson’s brother a low profile man? Cassias Clay, the world boxing champion now Mohammed Ali was a low profile man? Even thousand years ago high profile people converted to Islam. Anyways even if you say that Islam is for a low profile people then yes it is. It’s not like others where low caste people are not allowed to enter the places of worship, they are not allowed to drink water from the same well as others, in some places they are not treated even as human beings.
Islam has been since inception is joke for all those who don’t have knowledge. There are chapters in Quran dedicated to Prophet Noah, Abraham, Jesus peace be on all of them and many other prophets. Why would the chapters of other religions be included in Quran if Islam is not since inception? That is because they are not other religion but all are same. The religious books were tampered so the Quran was revealed as the final revelation.
Yes Adam (p.b.u.h) was the first person and he was a Muslim and he believed in one God.
No he didn’t pray 5 times nor the Muslims prayed 5 times even after Quran was revealed. It was only after few years of Islam came, were the Muslims enjoined to pray 5 times. To be a Muslim one has to believe in all the prophets and not only Mohammed (p.b.u.h). Don’t ask foolish questions like did Adam (p.b.u.h) regarded Prophet Mohammed as a messenger. At that time he was the only person on this earth and he himself was a prophet. Muslims regard him as the first prophet.
Regarding sending revelation all at one go, why don’t you sit at home for 20 years and directly did your graduation at one go in the 21st year? Or why didn’t you learn all the things till graduation in Junior KG itself. Got it? This means your knowledge is imperfect and incomplete. Verses were revealed according to the time and the ability of human beings to grasp them.
When you have done so much research then you must know that clouds, fruits having designs are more prevalent in other religions.But still I don’t criticize other religions.
You won’t find even a Mazaar in Saudi Arabia. This I have already answered in the previous forumMazaars belong to Muslims then how can you blame that only mandirs are not allowed? It is because at some Mazaars there are many things done which is against Islam. If people in Saudi wanted they would have allowed Mazaars but they didn’t do it.
Now my answer for those who have converted to Islam. You mean to say that Muslims keep a watch for the entire day, maybe week or maybe years and see when the person who has converted will reconvert to his previous religion.
I can answer each and every allegation on this website but I m not a full time agent who keeps on picking quotes that are out of context and post on this website. Insha’Allah I will answer each and every point. May Allah guide you to the right path.
◖Tanveer: Brother from now onwards I won’t enjoy sex but instead I will cry while having sex◗
CRY when you hear about a devout muslim kill a 12 year old child by having rough street dog sex with herhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOKWwZEhl8Y
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-09/world/yemen.child.bride.death_1_yemeni-marriage-child-brides?_s=PM:WORLD
CRY when you hear a devout muslim sex-maniac of 54 years being married to a 8 years old child and your Saudi Master’s Sharia court upholding the decision because your ‘prophet’ did the samehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms8tnn8klF8
CRY when you hear an Imam marry a 4 year old kid for one night to have sex with herhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyHM7aZ1Ws&feature=player_embedded
Bro, If you are indeed a human being and not a crazy sex-maniac..you would understand the difference between sex and love making.
I hope as many progressive muslims read your response to decide if they would STILL like to stick to this sexclub in which their own little daughters can become legal objects of beastly lust that could permanently damage them mentally and physically?
◖Tanveer:You are talking as if sex slaves are available in the market and can be purchased as and when you want. Please give me the address of those who are keeping sex slaves◗
looking at your defense of sex slavery i am sure if you could afford one ..you’d indeed keep one.
You need the address? ..go to UP,hyderabad or any god damn state in india or indonesia or pakistan or afghanistan ..you can buy these slaves (right hand possessions) as Allah your divine merciful god has made legal.
Read this horrid(It isn’t horrid for a devout muslim..it’s his birth right to sexually assault slaves) story
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/17/indonesia.sex.slave/index.html
◖Tanver:My dear friend if one takes these women as sisters then there is no contract between the two and as such there is no legal binding◗
My dear friend, have you signed a contract with your dad before taking birth? any contract with your brothers and sisters and mother?Do you sign contracts before making friends?
If all these don’t require a contract..why would you need a contract to help some woman.
You have become so insensitive and inhuman under the influence of Islam that you find it beautiful that your prophet killed the husband,father and brothers of juwahria and slept with her same day…you call that a contract?
what will you say if i kill you and then try to satisfy your wifes sexual needs..would you call me a prophet then? would you call it a legal contract?
Man! ..what has happened to your sense of righteousness and morality..rather than feeling ashamed you are gloating on such a disgusting thing.
DEAR PROGRESSIVE MUSLIMS …IS THIS HOW YOU THINK TOO? IS THIS WHAT YOU CALL RELIGION? IS THIS WHAT YOU CALL DIVINE?
DON”T ANSWER ME …ANSWER YOURSELF !
◖Tanveer:Don’t worry brother we are more bothered about them then you. That is why we give them equal rights in our property. After the death of her husband we allow them to marry if they want to and not throw them in funeral pyre of her husband or shave off her head and keep them in separate room◗
You might not know that in OUR historical accounts of mahabharat and ramayana , neither kunti or kaushalya committed sati after their husband’s death.
This practice became rampant in medieval period when Islamic ghazis like yourself who were sex maniacal cultists attacked india , that women started performing what came to be known as Jauhar…rather than become concubines or slaves of devout muslims.
As far as rights are concerned ..Islam doesn’t even give a woman right to have a FACE ..forget about equality.
What Islam has does to women is evident from the Islamic world ..they are 1/2 witnesses, unequal inheritors, 1/4th of a wife and declared as dumb by your prophet himself.
Not only that ..Islam does not leave women in afterlife too ..the prophet gladly informed that most inhabitants of hell would be women.so spare us the equality taqqiya
see what happens when PURE muslims have their say ( watch with discretion..not for kids)http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FsaluteKAFIRS%23p%2Fu%2F10%2FIAaXKZ1OQ9M
◖Tanveer:Show me how many Muslims have married 4 times.◗
In India, thanks to education and a strong womens rights commission..you don’t find the metro muslim guy to practice polygamy.
But as you move towards the villages , the story begins to change and you’d even find 50 year old guys marrying kids as young as 15 or 16.
Allah didn’t know (and zakir still doesn’t know) that in the whole world,and even in Islamic countries..the the number of women is less than the number of men…polygamy is even logically deplorable.
The impact of polygamy on the rest of the family(the wives and children) of the sex maniac is disastrous. read this study http://www.leadershiponline.co.za/articles/politics/386-spotlight-on-polygamy
◖Tanveer:Anyways even if you say that Islam is for a low profile people then yes it is. It’s not like others where low caste people are not allowed to enter the places of worship, they are
not allowed to drink water from the same well as others, in some places they are not treated even as human beings◗
Islam was for the people of 7th century arabia ..It does not belong to our times.
and you seem to be unaware of the caste system that is prevalent in Muslims, Christians along with Hindus in India.
Christians are divided into dalit,adivasi and brahmin christians
Muslims are divided into Afzals, Arzals,ansars and what not
Hindus are divided into the 4 caste systems
So you see it is a cultural mess ..that is why ..we have to get out of ALL RELIGIONS and seek the path of Humanity, Human Values and Spirituality.
as far as Islam is concerned ..please leave it now ..It does not belong to us ..we are no dumb arabs of 7th century ..We had a great civilization and philosophy ..that was brutalized by these ghazis ..come back to your roots..wake up (you seem to be a gone case by the way)
◖Tanveer:Islam has been since inception is joke for all those who don’t have knowledge. There are chapters in Quran dedicated to Prophet Noah, Abraham, Jesus peace be on all of them and many other prophets◗
Neither Abraham nor Noah or Jesus preached islam.
Jesus said that even Adults should keep the child inside them alive …while Muhammad said that a girl child is game for sex.
do they sound like preaching the same religion? …Jesus was the recipient of violence..Muhammad was a perpetrator
So only to semi-literate and illiterate muslims can you sell the idea that the first religion was Islam..because they don’t how different Islam is from those other religions.
BTW ..all religions suck and have these fancy illogical and irrational claims.
◖Tanveer:Yes Adam (p.b.u.h) was the first person and he was a Muslim and he believed in one God◗
Now this is what i was talking about. Do you know that Adam was born in 4004 BCE…and the details about his lineage are in the genesis (not in the Quran that has copied the stories incorrectly from the bible) .
So, even if you believe that Adam is the first Muslim, then again there were human beings living lakhs of years before Allah created Adam ..
the question is: who created those Human beings that lived lakhs of years before Adam?
Allah doesn’t have an answer and neither do you..got it?
◖Tanveer:No he didn’t pray 5 times nor the Muslims prayed 5 times even after Quran was revealed. It was only after few years of Islam came, were the Muslims enjoined to pray 5 times◗
Now look at this foolish foot in the mouth statement of yours…you have admitted now that islam is not from the beginning..while above you said otherwise.
you say that 5 times prayers were enjoined ONLY A FEW YEARS AFTER ISLAM CAME INTO BEING…i.e after Muhammad..case closed
◖Tanveer:Regarding sending revelation all at one go, why don’t you sit at home for 20 years and directly did your graduation at one go in the 21st year?Verses were revealed according to the time and the ability of human beings to grasp them◗
Do you think that a rational mind will believe that there would be a god who would choose the most uneducated and violent lot to deliver his message?..he would choose an illiterate man to deliver his message ? he would let his message be written on camel bones and then lost ?
Hello! ..this is 21st century ..wake up!
◖Tanver:I can answer each and every allegation on this website but I m not a full time agent who keeps on picking quotes that are out of context and post on this website. Insha’Allah I will answer each and every point. May Allah guide you to the right path◗
Please answer as many as you can..You are helping the cause of mother India ..the more educated muslims read your responses the more they will be able to make the right decision : whether to chose humanity and morality ..or to choose a sensual,illogical, violent embarrassment
Best regards
Admin note: This comment got automatically rejected because it contains more than 2 hyperlinks. In future, please limit the number of hyperlinks to 1 in one post to prevent spamming. This comment is being specially approved from backend. Please refer http://Satyagni.com/1979/Satyagni-back-in-action/ for further details. Dhanyavad.
I will cry when a person will dance with thousands of gopis.
I will cry when women will have 5 husbands.
I will cry when a person will have 100 putras.
I will cry when a person will marry 3 times when his religion doesn’t permit him to do so.
I will cry when a woman will be paraded naked just because she belongs to a lower caste.
I will cry when a woman will be gang raped and killed just because she belongs to a lower caste.
I will cry when influential people won’t allow the lower caste people to read their own holy book.
I will cry when a good and clean lady has to give Agni pariksha.
I will cry when a woman will be thrown in the funeral pyre of her husband. (though it was the greatest joke of the century when you said it was because of the Muslims)
I will cry when one’s own wives are treated as second class citizens.
I will cry when women will be burned for dowry.
I will cry when women will be lost in the game of gambling and her modesty would be outraged in front of everyone and her husbands would be mute spectators.
I will cry when women will be sold for a bottle of liquor.
I will cry when there will an honour killing not because she marries a Muslims but outside her own sub caste.
I will cry whenever a young girl becomes a Devdasi.
Devadasi is a religious practice whereby parents marry a daughter to a deity or a temple. The marriage usually occurs before the girl reaches puberty and requires the girl to become a prostitute for upper-caste community members. They are forbidden to enter into a real marriage.
I have given you the definition of devdasi because your knowledge of Islam is very good but you lack knowledge about other religions.
You mean to say women used to commit suicide to escape the Muslims then that mean Muslims were so powerful that immediately after the death of her husband they would take her away in front of their relatives and friends. If they were so powerful then why wait for husbands death? That does also mean relatives and friends of that women were just spectators that they cannot defend their daughters or sisters? Or that does mean that one’s your women are married you cut off all the ties and think that it is the responsibility of her husband to take care whether she lives or dies you people are not concerned? Please… explain to me I m confused.
Yes my father didn’t sign a contract with me but he did sign a contract with my mother. I really pity that you people are really working soooo hard to defame Islam. Please don’t do it. You are wasting your time but if you still want to try then try and try till you succeed. Whatever you have mentioned about Islam and prophet, you yourself know is untrue.
We have sex regularly with our wives so they are fully satisfied in your case it doesn’t seem so because you always speak against sex.
Quran is one. Some Muslims have created fragments among themselves, so it is because of the people and not because of the teachings of Quran. There is no caste system. Even a person who cleans the mess is allowed to enter the Masjid and prayer side by side. We sit with them in their homes and have food together.
I challenge you to prove the points that you have mentioned, that only Muslims are doing it. Out of millions and billions of Muslim if few indulge in nasty things you cry on the top of your voice. In your language you dance up and down. I challenge you whoever you are, prove it to me that your people don’t indulge in such things. Just relax. Don’t panic because Islam is the fastest growing religion. From your answer I can remember one proverb “Khisiyani billi khamba nooche” You think you have done a great job by pasting links in your website. My dear friend the links you have posted deals with human trafficking. Just because few Muslims are involved, you want to say the entire community is wrong. If that is the case then please go through the links below. Come on grow up.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?
next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dswv17VvCo68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl11vK5qtm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0xay6izfLs
http://www.legaldrift.com/the-sadhu-saint-who-robbed-me-while-i-was-praying/
http://www.expressindia.com/news/messages.php?newsid=42044
I will definitely consider your peaceful religion but I don’t know which religion you are preaching? How peaceful are you people, your entire site is full of hatred towards another community. The entire site is based on false and malicious campaign whereby there is bound to be enmity between two communities. It is you who have made anti Islamic sites so that you can whip up the passions of innocent people and create trouble. We Indians don’t need enemies from outside when you people are sitting here inside. I believe in one India one people.
I would like to end with the proverb “You can fool some people some time but you cannot fool all the people all them time”
Yes i do accept the fact that in many indian tribes such practices of ill treatment of women were rampant in earlier times.But there is no proof that such practices were inspired by or endorsed by the hindu scriptures.People later introspected such malpractices and now such practices are deplored and virtually invisible in indian society.
Even islam has seen the people like saddam,aurganzeb and laden who troubled the mankind with their misdeeds.Important is what your religion inspires and ask you to do.
And when religion itself teaches and spread hatred among the people,such acts are irresistable since people look upto their religion to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong.There are many instances in the quran which preaches to not to consider the non muslims as equals even if it is about basic human rights.
Best example is the muslims who first taxes the non muslim with jizya and then say it is the way to subjugate and dishonor them.Many well known scholars around the world have studied quran in depth and concluded that it is nothing but a hate speech against non muslims.
As for your comments regarding lord Krishna .He is regarded as the supreme god in the hindu religion who has created nature ,all men and women (Unlike prophet who was a human assigned a task of a messenger and the recipient of many conjugal concessions by allah). So there is no way he can be taken as one desiring physical pleasure although the acts you are talking about was actually Kirtan(Prayer) mentioned in hindu scriptures and by no means a sexual act .
But it is hard to understand for those who believe that only sexual act can be performed with a woman.
As for your comments on draupadi and dashrath,these are just the characters in the hindu mythology and not the ones idolized and followed by hindu people.
But wait ,why i am explaining this to you ,I am not the one who says hinduism is the best religion in the world.We deem every religion as equals.Your sudden allegations on hinduism while backing your own religion reflects that you are run out of your improvised excuses of defending your holy book Quran.When at its very first step your holy books fail to convince the people that it is not a hate speech thanks to the hundreds of wicked suras in your holy book,how can this religion be the acceptable religion to your so called “The People of the Book”.
now everyone thinks draupadi practiced polyandry.they still do not know the truth about her.draupadi was indrani devi herself.lets see the full history about her.hers husband held a long time rivalry with the rishi,tvashda.so,the rishi held a yajna to get his desired valiant son.but however the son was killed slyly by indra.but dont think yajna is useless just because of this incident.this incident is a result of chanting the mantras in a wrong way.lets get back to the history.since indra killed the son of a rishi a great sin conquered him.his justice,power,wisdom and his handsome look all went to yama,vayu,and asvini twins respectively.strengthness stayed with him. since lord vishnu is going to take another avatar(krishna avatar)to guide goodness to win against evilness,he instructed indra to be born as five men.so his characteristics were born to kunthi through this devas.since indra has left for bhooloka (earth),indrani,being a chaste wife was born as draupadi from the yajna to draupada,the king of panchala.thus she just married one man,indra.so her marriage was justified.she did not practice polyandry.
It is not enjoying of sex that is the moot point, the point is the mode of enjoyment. Now, how on earth can u even think of justifying nonconsensual sex (rape) and defend it? How come a prophet allow his followers to indulge in rape? It seems that islam is making u numb to human sensitivities. Talking of a psychiatrist, I think it is you and your ilk that needs it the most.
Again, the logic of marrying women who u want to help does not hold any water. Your comments are self-contradictory in nature. “If the person suffers any financial problem then he might think twice to keep on supporting such women and might ultimately leave her.” So, you mean to say muslim brothers leave their sisters and mothers in the lurch in times of need since they are not physically intimate with them.
Talking of Michael Jackson and Cassius Clay, you forget one thing that a lot of African American rejected Christianity because of the illtreatment meted out to the blacks in the West as a mark of protest.
Regarding your mindless talk about the message being upgraded for people of different ages, even if we accept that argument, then why is it that u muslims cling on the quran as the last and final revelation. We could have much better message for the people of this computer age. Think.
“If people in Saudi wanted they would have allowed Mazaars but they didn’t do it.” Going by the same logic, the mosque near Ground Zero in America should not be built, the majority of Americans do not want it, then is it that the muslims are insisting on building that mosque? There are religious structures in India that have been destroyed by muslim rulers, and the hindu populace wants the old temples be rebuilt on those sites. Then going by your logic, we should raze those mosques and instead have the temples built as before.
My dear friend first let me know from where you got this information that our prophet (p.b.u.h) allowed to rape. Now don’t tell me you have read books which is full of such information. The information has to be authentic. Even I can produce 100s of books which talk about rape in different religion. So be specific and try to face the truth.
It is but natural for any human being to give preference to his own family. If your son is walking along the road with his friend and if a vehicle comes in front of them. You have option to save anyone of them. Who would save? Similarly, if I marry a women she gets rights in the property, she will get all the benefits of a married women. Again if the women have her own physical needs, who will satisfy her wants? In our religion women are treated equally. We believe that women also has sexual desires and don’t treat them as second class citizens.
If Michael Jackson and Cassius Clay converted to protest then why did they choose Islam and not any other religion?
When you are not able to understand the Quran, why are you talking about upgrading it? First upgrade yourself and read it with open mind. Religion is not a computer system that you can upgrade every few months. Quran is already a complete and upgraded revelation.
Did Muslim tell to build a Mosque near ground zero? It was the view point of the president of America. Again you are saying Muslims. If there are few who are in favour of building a mosque then don’t blame the entire community as usual.
“People of west are really coming to Islamic ideology! ”
Tanvir, good that u accept and admit that Islam is “ideology”. That is the whole point. It is an ideology and not a religion. It has only the facade of a religion.
Long live Dr.Zakir Naik . Much more TRUTH to be exposed about oneness of the god.
ALL have to accept this. NO SUBSTITUTES,NO IMAGES,NO PATNERS,NO MOTHER,NO FATHER,NO SONS or DAUGHTERS. go through your original religous scritpoures.
correct your vision and knowledge
@Muhammad Arif
you should have forst landed here http://Satyagni.com/1724/how-to-debate-infidels-and-kafirs-and-win/
havent you won the debate ..even without making a single argument …you rock ( read: you a rock?) 🙂
@mohammed arif, you forgot tot mention that allah is neither male nor female.
That means allah is eunuch? A hijada? or is he gay or faggot?
Bhai tanveer why r u wasting ur time here as we dont need any clerification on our religon as we are clear with our religon, it these guy who dont know any thing abt their religion. It was zakir nayak who tought them to follow vedas and today they r teaching us abt islam……pls let them do any thing but it will be of no use as islam is only true………….so dont waste time and go and pray to allah insallah that will help us in qayamat.
Bhaai Salman, Please don’t say like that. Brother Tanveer is doing an excellent job here. Who knows, Insha’allah, per chance, someone could receive guidance through his writings & realize ‘The Truth’. Let’s all pray for truth to prevail & falsehood to perish.
True Indian and all others who want peace just ask Satyagni about the translation of the vedas. Don’t discuss any further till you get the translation. Satyagni and party are hell bent on creating trouble between different communities. They dont have to do anything either with Islam or hinduism. They just want to divide and rule. SO ASK FOR THE TRANSLATION OF VEDAS.
Taqiya Master Tanveer,
Have you finally rejected quran, for the violence and illegitimate sex with child, daughter in law etc that it propagates. When you are done with the elimination round, let us know we will guide you to vedas !
TRANSLATION OF VEDAS PLEASE. I can see the fear in your writing. Fear of not being able to debate, fear of your online shop called Satyagni being shut. I didnt know the rule that one has to finally reject the Quran and then he or she will be given the translation. In that case whoever reads the Quran wil definately revert to Islam. PLEASE QUOTE THE QURANIC VERSES ABOUT THE VOILENCE AND ILLEGITIMATE SEX WITH CHILD AND DAUGHTER IN LAW.
By the way what is a shivling??? PLEASE GIVE THE TRANSLATION OF ALL THE FOUR VEDAS.
You have done a good work brother……
Tanveer bhai,
I request you to kindly go thru quran and hadiths 1st, before asking for vedic translation. Otherwise you wud never have asked for verses of violence and illegitimate sex with child in quran and hadiths.
@other readers
Look at his hypocracy, he is debating here for Islam but is refusing to acknowledge the mother of all believers (as per Islam) i.e. Aisha and also about zainab !!!
BTW, tanveer bhai taqiya waale was exposed doing taqiya by Arya on this same subject of illegitimate sex with child.
Translation available online. Also bhagwadgeeta is the only true uncorrupted holy book, which was revealed by Lord Krishna to arjuna on the battlefield of kurukshetra, whihc is the same world oever. No corruption, interpolation etc. Tell zakir naik liar to prove this fact.
Zakir Naik liar, in the ONE lecture I attended, actually said, prophet mohammed died a natural death. Tell that idiotic islamic scholar, to re read all hadiths. Your false prophet died a very very slow and very painful death after suffering for 2 years. Check the internet. I am a bigger islamic scholar than zakir naik. Tell that Idiot to debate with me, not illiterate muslims who dont understand english
If hindu militant attended Zakir Naik’s lecture and wanted to debate wid him, y didnt he do it as IRF gives a chance to every non muslim to debate in his lectures. Lolzz he was afraid of Zakir Naik.
Shaikh Mian,
Zakir Naik’s “Lectures” are for semi-literates where answers are given in One-Liners, to which madarsaa alumniis clap to their heart’s content. There is nothing like debate !
But it PROVES that zakir naik is a LIAR.
@Tanveer
The debate is about islam, the religion that allows raping children, temporary marriage etc.
In which way did you see fear in his writing? Prove this claim and explain instead of acting like a psychologist.
If you want to talk about fear, we can talk about you. What I’m seeing is a muslim trying to defend islam. As a consequence, you tried to defend the raping mentionned earlier by the others in islam and was unsuccessful doing so, because no matter what you say, even if you say “Allah allows this”, raping a child is inexcusable, and thus undefendable.
You saw that your arguments had no values, defending an indefendable case.
So instead of defending it more, because no argument can excuse the horrible thing mentionned about islam, you just try to attack hinduism. You want to attack the Vedas. You’re being aggressive. That’s manifestation of fear. You are scared because the true facet of your religion is being exposed and you can’t defend it. So you run away and change the direction of the debate into Quran vs Vedas, and the one finding most “mistakes” in the other book win. Well you’re stupid if that is really your strategy.
Tanveer: “PLEASE QUOTE THE QURANIC VERSES ABOUT THE VOILENCE AND ILLEGITIMATE SEX WITH CHILD AND DAUGHTER IN LAW.
By the way what is a shivling??? PLEASE GIVE THE TRANSLATION OF ALL THE FOUR VEDAS.”
You ask for quranic verses about illegitimate sex with child etc, well, you won’t find that, because the Quran makes it illegitimate, and thus, making the Quran a demonic and inhuman book.
But still, here are some verses for you (if you really have some humanity left in you, don’t even try to defend them, but I won’t go as far as to forbit it lol)
Quran 33:4 :”Allah has not made for any man two hearts within him; nor has He made your wives whose backs you liken to the backs of your mothers as your mothers, nor has He made those whom you assert to be your sons your real sons; these are the words of your mouths; and Allah speaks the truth and He guides to the way.”
This verse was created as an excuse for Muhammed to marry the wife of his adopted son. And later, invented another verse that would cancel the fact that he is his adoptive son.
Quran 65:4 “Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.”
This is the verse used to defend pedophilia in Quran.
In one of the videos of Indian Agnostic, the one with Komeini raping a little girl, you have an example.
Hoping you get rid of Quran and islamic ideology.
I don’t ask you to join and learn vedic teachings. I don’t care about that.
I care about humanity.
And thus I ask you to get rid of a book that allows and even orders to do inhuman things (fight non-muslims, beat wife if desobedient (Quran: 4:34) etc)
I meant: “the Quran makes it LEGITIMATE, and thus, making the Quran a demonic and inhuman book”
Brother Tanveer has been repeatedly asking for Translation of all four Vedas in English. Why is a proper reply not forthcoming from Team Satyagni?
Regards
abe shaane, YOU are creating problems between communities by saying islam is truth and everything else is false. Got it moron?
I DONT need your hidaya, I am happy to follow hinduism, what you gonna do? Force me?
WE MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO FORCE ANYONE TO ACCEPT OUR FAITH. AS BEING A MUSLIM I MUST TELL YOU THAT PLEASE WATCH SIMILARITIES BETWEEN ISLAM AND HINDUISM. YOU SEEK THE TRUTH AND TRUTH SHALL FREE YOU INSHA ALLAH
WE MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO FORCE ANYONE TO ACCEPT OUR FAITH. AS BEING A MUSLIM I MUST TELL YOU THAT PLEASE WATCH SIMILARITIES BETWEEN ISLAM AND HINDUISM. YOU SEEK THE TRUTH AND TRUTH SHALL FREE YOU INSHA ALLAH………..
Absolutely ridiculous. The guy who’s “refuting” the so-called claims has no knowledge of islam at all but I guess I must thank him because it is such stupid arrogance of people like him which convinces the “kafirs” (i.e. people of his kind) to embrace islam. Good work mate. Keep it up.
Dr. Zakir is not a prophet of and no one can become a prophet of Islam after Muhammad (sal) and he is the seal of prophet. But any one can do the duty of Prophet Muhammad (sal) the way how he has done,guided and how his shahaba’s did. We muslims agree if Dr. Zakir does or if he deviates we also disagree only if he is away from guideliness of Muhammad (sal)
It is not Dr. Zakir’s claim that Islam is growing religion. It is Allah’s promise in quran and Muhammad (sal) assurance to the umma that islam will dominate the world how much may be disbelivers hate it or how much they will plan to suppress it. Deep analysis of this fact will be understood by the people of wisdom. Pl note muslims may not dominate , they may be suppressed but islam, deen of Allah will raise. May be even Dr. Zakir do not know how to explain this fact or disbeleivers lost the sense grasp this fact
@shaikh,
You have nailed it hard on yoursefl. The idea of abrahamic faiths is always to “dominate the world ” through more conversion or breeding like rabits.
Allah asks Such people who criticize Quran than “And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad ), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow…. (Quran, 2:23-25)
Another ZN zombie. Shaikh, spare me this gyan, yaar. If you are so bloody convinced that you will go to islamic heaven and enjoy multiple houris and enjoy all the other forms of carnal pleasures that you so desire, my simple question is why delay your last flight to your heaven, hasten it, and leave us for good. We are better off in our swarga, our mathrubhoomi.
Dear Brother, Do not ridicule me, Do you not have Ramba, Urvasi, lovely girls even your God’s enjoying in your swarga.If I beleive I will have a enjoyful life with my Hoorul ein in paradise and obstain from bad girls or lust in this world, is it positive or negative? Why you are envy we muslims will have hoors in paradise, it is promise of Allah, Insha Allah we will wait with patience, by doing good deeds here..but your God’s enjoy all the girls in your heaven making all of you envy. But Allah is perfect from all of this, but he knows what a human desires, you ask your heart , attend with a psychologist, if you are true, pl study the works of Sigmond Freud, about human desires and it is facts..Pl do not hide unnaturally..You riducule your self
“If I beleive I will have a enjoyful life with my Hoorul ein in paradise and obstain from bad girls or lust in this world”
So, lust in heaven is not sinful. Good logic to begin with. And girls in earth are bad, so you have to keep them as sex slaves, hit them when you need to, keep them in burqas, deny them the basic human rights and interestingly enough, some of those half-intelligent morons buy that argument. Now, your comments are making sense to me.
So, here comes the intellectual part, taking of human psychology. I agree that human desires need to discussed openly with no bias as such, but then why only talk of polygamy and not polyandry, why this lopsided approach, or women are not humans at all? Please clarify.
I ridicule myself. How? Please explain.
@shaikh
Brother you think in heaven there would be 72 Hoor for yourself & what about your mother & sister they also want enjoyment & for their enjoyment there also should 72 bachelor in heaven with whom your mother & sister can enjoy full. Please think the same for your sister & mother as you think for yourself if you think it not immoral.
@shaikh Namaste Brother
Brother, I think you totally misunderstood here, Veda followers never criticize anybody rather than we consider criticizing is a sin. If you think opposing of immoral/nonsense act is criticism you are totally wrong. It is a fundamental duty of truth follower to oppose rituals/superstitions/immorality. If we oppose rituals /superstations like kissing of black stone, bowing head before Kaba stone, Marriage between fifty year old & 6 years old child, custom of making woman sex slaves, Allah is too cruel that he send his children in eternal hell for the finite bad deed as Kuran says, If Allah is omnipresent than why he does not live in hell with his children, Allah sits on 7th sky if he is omnipresent, Allah is moody person & can change his laws any time like breaking moon etc, Allah was sitting lazily on his throne before universe creation, Idea of universe creation came in Allah mind after a long period of resting on his throne, One should not be faithful to his country but to Kaba & Arabs, if there is fight between Arabs & India.
Brother we cannot support these nonsense & immoral ideology of any Book like Kuran. If you have any objection put here logically.
@ Truth seeker,
Dear , Pl read quran with open mind, u will find all your imagiantion you have written are false..it is your misconception only. Trust me. Why you try to say one is bad before you know him fully. You will do injustice only. We worship Allah purely.We differ from Hindus for the simple reason making our God idols, stones, make wives, childrens to God. Pl show me evidence from quran where God is attiributed as imperfect. God will defintely Judge he will reward and punish. It is true to all the religion. not specific to Islam. Love does not need age. Pl get into medical fact. All such customs are your restriction made on true love. also you like to brand that as we are not loyal to our country since we follow islam. Insha Allah India will be liberated by islam. We do not need any other muslims support. Allah is with us. Only you need to study Islam to know how it is against God, soceity or nation. Why hinduism was the reason for producing buddism and so many isms..sikishm, saivism..do you have clarity of religion.Pl think dear. first define yourself then we can discuss better
@shaikh
As you said me read Kuran with open mind, As I think with open mind that is why I am asking you just simple question Why Allah punish his children for indefinite/eternal hell for finite bad deed. Why Allah does not live hell with his children if he omnipresent. What is the benefit of children to send them in eternal hell. I think parents punish the children just for their betterment. Please you think it rationally and answer me.
@Shaik
_________Insha Allah India will be liberated by islam___________
Brother Why Arab want to destroy this country by establishing Islam here as they had done with pakistan, Afganistan, Somaliya, Irak etc.
@Shaik Namaste
__________We differ from Hindus for the simple reason making our God idols, stones, make wives, childrens to God________________
You are right & to know more you must read this excellent article of Vik & having same idea.
http://satyagni.com/5062/islam-and-idol-worship/
@shaikh
————Why you try to say one is bad before you know him fully. You will do injustice only. —————
And what you are doing now by refuting Hindus? Do you know Hinduism fully? If not, you are doing injustice.
————-We worship Allah purely.————
No. Your worship is nothing without agent aka messenger of Allah- Muhammad’s inclusion.
———— We differ from Hindus for the simple reason making our God idols, stones, make wives, childrens to God.——–
Yes you differ with Hindus because you worship agent Muhammad along with Allah. Also you are Kaba worshippers as proven in the articles on this site itself. Read those once. Muslims worship graves.
———– Pl show me evidence from quran where God is attiributed as imperfect.———
1. Show me from Vedas where God has wives.
2. Allah keeps changing His nature and thus He is imperfect. Tell me why did He create us if He was perfect? He spent infinite time sitting alone then why suddenly He created and showed the sign of imperfection?
———–God will defintely Judge he will reward and punish.———–
Can Allah reverse the trend if He is omnipotent? Can he punish Muslims with hell and reward Kafirs with heaven?
————-It is true to all the religion. not specific to Islam.————
But Islam says it is the only religion? 🙁 Then how come ALL religions?
————Love does not need age. Pl get into medical fact. All such customs are your restriction made on true love.———–
Just try to show the love to a 6 year old baby and see what happens. Idiot Arabs could count it as divine relation but our civilized society will kick your ass and call you pedophile
————- also you like to brand that as we are not loyal to our country since we follow islam.————
Imagine some day Saudi launches missile on India and India does same in return. In this if Indian Missile destroys Kaba idol, will you support India or oppose?
————- Insha Allah India will be liberated by islam.————
This is why most of Jihadis are called terrorists here. Anyway try it. Its just the matter of time when the “by” in your sentence is replaced by “from”. And BTW why I am wrong if I demand Hindu rule in Saudi, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc? Why do Jihadis piss when they hear the concept of Hindu Rashtra?
————We do not need any other muslims support. Allah is with us. .————-
You can try that too. Allah was with Mughals too who were crushed by Hindus and rooted out of here after Aurangzeb. Actually Allah has started taking side of Kafirs now. All Muslim countries today are beggars in front of west. Saudis are puppets of US. Pakistan and Afghanistan are controlled by US. Seems Allah changed His side after seeing might of Kafirs 🙂
————–Only you need to study Islam to know how it is against God, soceity or nation. ————-
We have read enough. Now its your turn to read the articles here and get yourself educated now.
————-Why hinduism was the reason for producing buddism and so many isms..sikishm, saivism…————-
Because Hinduism has no tribal laws like death for apostasy unlike Islam. BTW can you explain me the science behind Shiaism, Sunnism, Barelvism, Deobandism, Wahabism, Sufism, Qadiyanism, Khojaism, Bohraism, Ismailism, Tanasukhiyaism, … upto more than 100 isms that constitute ONE TRUE ISLAM 🙂
———-do you have clarity of religion———–
Oh no, we dont. But you have. Everyone has so much of clarity that every other Momin belongs to his own sect and hates rest others. So Momins are very clear about CLARITY OF SECT, they know which is theirs’ and which are to be blown in bomb blasts because they differ with your views/sects 🙂
—————first define yourself then we can discuss better—————
But even if you define yourself we still cant discuss better because of this http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/
@ Dear All my brothers of my motherland, Indian Nation and Humanity,
I thank Allah for giving me opportunity to invite you Islam, religion of truth.
Pl acknowledge the truth and say ” There is no god except Allah and Muhammad (sal) is the final prophet and the messenger of Allah ” – In arabic ” Laa- ilaaha – il – Allah Muhammad -ur- rasoolilah”
People who acknowledge this truth will be saved from Hellfire. Pl read quran fully, words of Allah, to understand to grasp this fact. Allah explains everything to you all your queries in plain words. Word of Allah (quran) and life example of Muhammad (sal) is the only reference for you to understand why we follow Islam among all such ignorant criticisms posted by you. The same is the answer for all the muslims who go deviant , ignorant , divisive and extreme paths in the name of Islam.
Pl note we muslims India can not be hindus, because of many reasons we will discuss if you are ready.
We do not want to be in the path of idolatory, casteism, supertitions which hindusim support.
But Islam (Quran or Sunnah) does not support the deviations , seccession, injustice among even its followers. Allah will judge with truth for all humanity. But we will be telling the truth of islam with patience with you. This is the test of Allah to us until we meet Him in the next life. Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad Nabi & his Shahaba are the only answer for you to understand the truth of Religion. Political issues specific to India can not be mixed with this. India is already a muslim nation if not divided. It is a clear conspiracy to divide India by British, Md Ali Jinnah , congress, and other Hindu brains to make present India as Hindu Majority. This is the root cause of the fundamental conflict we engage.
We like to unite India and give equal justice / freedom / liberty to all, each one will decide what to follow. Pl respect we follow Islam in India for a lot of good reasons. Pl define Hiduism and consolidate within Hindu brothers and tell why we have to follow Hinduism. I accepted Hoorul – Ein are there for my pleasure in Islamic heaven, but you have never accepted there are girls for pleasure exists in Hindu heaven also as per Hindu Mythologies. Even God’s explained in Hinduism with sexual nature, with family, children, conflicts and competition with Gods, and so many. So We Muslims said as
first ” There is no such Gods”. Then we acknowledged that ” Allah is the only true God” .
At least as a first step are you prepared to say There is not such Gods explained as per Hindu traditions.
There is no meaning of discussing other topics if we do not discuss this subject of “Oneness of God for all” and ” Purity of God”. We discuss with good sprit and we muslims acknowledge Hindu brothers as our brothers of same culture, land , as friends, We acknowledge all your good things, greatness all.We are in the same boat share all gain or loss, we understand your feelings, but Quran or Sunnah of the prophet of Islam is not the reason of our divide. It remains , will remain the reason of our unity, prosperous and salvation. We Indian muslim will not allow you to attack kaaba , kiblaa of muslims , also pl note we Indian muslims live with shouldering your security against any attack by any muslims around you. Because When Muhammad (Nabi) was tortured in Taif when he took the mission of peace Islam, He said even if these people did not follow, there generation will follow Islam. May Allah give all of us His mercy to follow for us or our generations to come. or If you know one best religion better than Islam with sound reason pl discuss, but Hinduism already we muslims disagreed.
@ SDC / Truth Seeker, Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
TRUTH NO. 1 : Islam protects the honour, dignity of mother or sister of anyone of us. Islam do not allow a woman marrying more men, this nothing to do with islam, this is common sense, accepted truth (only Mahabatha refer such incident in History)
– Sub Truth 1a : No child will be happy to see or hear their mother to have more than one father.
– Sub Truth 1b : No woman will desire to share her chastity with more men
– Sub Truth 1c : No men will like to share same woman
-Sub Truth 1d: No legal expert will be clever enough to decide all relevant legal issues of the soceity
TRUTH NO. 2 : Islam already prefers man to marry single woman considering Justice to woman. There is no harm if a man lives with one wife and does justice to her. Islam sets the limit of wives allows in a culture where polygamy was practices and recommends only one, but allows polygamy to avoid / to resolve very reasonable practical situations of life also to ensure prohibiting adultery.
– Islam sets Limit to four wives when people were proud of marrying hundreds of wives (practice in any nation of past including india, have references in history and in hindu mythologies , even God’s dignified having more wives)
– Islam makes condition when a condition of polygamy prevails to one. Justice , equality and acceptance through marriage. Girls acknowledgement is important . No one can force a girl to marry without her consent, her father consent as a wakil and before judge and before soceity.
– Islam totally prohibits adultery in any form only encourages marriage.
– Polygamy avoids adultery.
BUT WHICHEVER RELIGION / SOCEITY PROHIBITS POLYGAMY ALLOWS ADULTERY. (common girls for rejected boys)
Hoorul Ein in next life in paradise is reward by God, Islam never says more men for one woman even in Paradise, God will fulfil desire of woman with her husband only. This is how God created Man and woman.
Human rights of woman are very well ensured in Islamic law.
If you say one woman goes in the street half naked is having more freedom than one who have covered, it is matter of understanding / perception. We can say a woman have equal right to roam naked or fully covered. It is her right. How one can not comment one who goes naked or half naked similar logic applicable for one who goes covered. You need to assess positive or negative influence on personal or social angle. A muslim woman little sacrifce on her personal side but avoids social cultural degradations due to burga. But How to set limit for social cultural degradation due to woman influence in society. Do you have any way out? Think with your logic. study fully all the issues. Give solution. Better go to a police station , legal court or club or study some practical news.
As per logic 1+1 =2 but as per wisdom of God 1 + 1 need not to be equal to 2. Logic will not give you good idea of truth, you need to do extensive study to understand facts and truth (medical, psychological, legal, social issues to be understood)
I thank Allah for giving me opportunity to invite you Islam, religion of truth.Pl acknowledge the truth and say ” There is no god except Allah and Muhammad (sal) is the final prophet and the messenger of Allah ” – In arabic ” Laa- ilaaha – il – Allah Muhammad -ur- rasoolilah” People who acknowledge this truth will be saved from Hellfire
@Shaik Namsate Brother
Brother you seems to be foolish, As there is a saying in India “one listen the Rayaman in whole night but ask in morning who was sita”. Jakir Naik get tired to make you understand do not judge the Car by driver. Agniveer also has declared in many article every man made book like Kuran, Puran, Ramayan is not divine like Veda. Is story of Mahabharata or five husband appears anywhere in Veda. No. Please do not comment outside of Veda. And if you said yourself follower of truth, please give answer of this asked to you.
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14019
@ , Truth Seeker
Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——Why Allah punish his children for indefinite/eternal hell for finite bad deed. Why Allah does not live hell with his children if he omnipresent. What is the benefit of children to send them in eternal hell—
To answer you pl read Quran Surat Al-‘Ikhlāş chapter
112:1 Say, “He is Allah , [who is] One (Unique) – Ahad
112:2 Allah , the Eternal Refuge.- Who is in need of none and of Whom all are in need (As-samd)
112:3 He neither begets nor is born,
112 :4 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
Islam do not say Allah is Omni-present but says Allah is Omni- Potent. God is Omni-present is Hindu or philosophies of Shirk (sharing partner with God). As per Islam God is the creator and other things are creation. God created everything out of nothing. It means Allah has given meaning to all nothings – Zero , it is his power. All creations in need of Allah to exist, but Allah can exist without any of his creation. Pl know your creator how Allah tells in Quran. This is the fundemental reason Hindu philosophy says God is everywhere and everything becomes God. Islam disagrees with such philosophies. Also Allah neither begets or nor born to anyone. He is pure from all. Only human reproduces needs sex and sexual energy given for regeneration of his next generation. Human sex has meaning if regulated correctly or that energy can destroy a society very silently. Pl note your words Allah does not have children only creations he knows well why he created us? God need not to be in hell or in heaven. Allah is beyond the space away from the creations. But Allah can control can his creation very closer. Wrong does must be punisherd. Hell exists for that. Allah knows better why he intended to punish his creations or reward them. But everyone will understand why his Lord Punishes him or Reward Him. You may ask this question to Allah when you meet Him during the judgment day. But I can say now that you are ignorant of Allah , your creator or tend to deny him. When you know fully about Allah all your misconception will go.
To answer you simply
If you call some one as father instead of your true father, what your true father will do for you?
If you call some one as mother instead of your true mother, what your true mother will do for you?
If your son call some one as father what you will do for him?
If you employ some worker for you in your business if they work for in favour of some one’s business what you will do?
If some one’s wife become loyal to some one what her husband will do?
It is a question of relationship betrayal. You need to understand first who is your creator? then you will get answer for your queries
Shaikh, will any woman want to share her husband with other women (wives or sex slaves).
@ , SDC, Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
—-will any woman want to share her husband with other women (wives or sex slaves)—-
yes you are correct, No woman will share. Islam acknowledges this fact, also quran already recommends to do justice for only women.
Allah states in Quran :
“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that which your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.” (Chapter an-Nisa / 3)
Allah states the following:
“Ye are never able to do justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding and practice self-restraint, Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.” (Chapter an-Nisa/ 129)
Prophet Muhammad (sal) told that “A man who has two wives and who is completely inclined to one and who ignores the other emerges with one side of his body paralyzed in the Day of Judgment.” (Hadith; Ibn Majah, Nikah, 47; Mishqatl’l-masabih, 2/196)
1. A woman does not consent to share his husband with another woman under normal circumstances, and no woman would like to marry a married man unless she has to.
2. Pl note these verse from Allah comes when people are indulged in polygamy (It was an accepted culture, no one found fault as you do today). Even enemies of Muhammad (sal) criticised him for many thing but they never criticised him for polygamy. It was an accepted culture in Arabia, among jews, among indians also (study Hindu mythology references)
3. Allah restricts marriages to level of four from uncountable.
4. Even four was accepted with condition of doing justice to all.
5. Again the verse says doing justice among woman difficult so recommend ONLY ONE (can you tell me which Veda says to marry only one)
6. But what is the solution for many situation where a man will go for a polygamy?
7. Pl tell me your religion accepts adultery than accepting responsibility of doing justice to an another woman also in case of a practical compulsion of a man?
8. As per Islamic no one can force a woman for atleast first marriage, even her father.
Pl study the divine law with correct sprit and right angle. You think what is the solution for adultry? Are you permitting adultery in the soceity than people accept responsibility and keep honour of a woman.
Weak arguments, my dear friend. You start out with the premise that only men go astray and that women do not commit adultery. Then, why is it that in islam a woman is stoned to death for adultery. Why not find a suitable system for them not to go astray as you very intelligently put forth the idea of multiple wives and sex slaves for men not to become promiscuous. Why not provide for male sex slaves for women and allow polyandry on similar lines, why this discrimination then?
@SDC,
You keep on insisting woman to go with more men. Pl study this aspect with woman, woman psychologists, medical experts’ sociologists and lawmaker and give us best idea or system. Islam already given all clear defined rules. You may dispute or critcise but rules are clear even you think biased. What is the rules of Hinduism can you declare? can a woman can have more man legally in Hindu system? Is it prostitution legally accepted in Hindu system? Pl give clarity first. If Devadasi system / Redlight brother system accepted as per Hindu rule or tradition then again it is illegal polygamy or polygyny? why do you criticise Islam then pl think
You are trying to obfuscate the issue, my dear friend. Are you referring to islamic doctors, psychiatrists, etc. They will bend over backwards to prove that just about anything is islamic and even come up with ludicrous theories as allah being a giant amoeba. So lets not get engaged in semantics, just asking my simple and plain question again if in case you still have not been able to grasp it, why different yardsticks while dealing with adultery for man and woman, lollipops for 1 and stick for the other. In as far as prostitution is concerned, I think it is a far lesser cruel system then sexual slavery. Then, why are you even opposed to it? Concerning the devdasi pratha that you people keep harping on from time to time, it is nonexistent today.And also there is no vedic sanction for it, it was the mischief of a corrupt few and has been done away with.
@SDC,
Answer is simple, I feel sympathy if you have not yet grasped even logically
– A man takes responsibility for his children and wife even if he goes for another marriage.
may be some can do justice with two, some one with three, some one four.
You need little crack your mind how a woman will take responsibility and do justice in such case.
You can ask them whether they do prefer this? why do you insist when they do not prefer as if you have a great logic..? you keep on read repeated what I have written you will understand.ask a man how many wife he want he will answer you, answer a woman how many husband she want she will answer you? pl do a survey..a woman may leave a man and prefer another man. This freedom is given for genuine reason.. Why do you think out of nature?
OMG , shaikh dude, you need some mental treatment. Despite the fact that reason is being blared into your ears @ 180 decibels, you still dont hear anything.
congrats on your utter stubborness.
and,
May God’s blessings be with Allah.
Shaikh, probably you are still living in the medieval arabic times. These days even women work and of course there are female billionaires, not to speak of millionaires. Now, don’t tell me that they cannot support 1, 2, 3, or even 4 men ordinary men who do not even earn a 5-figure salary. My questions still remains unanswered as you seem to be fetishistic about beating about the bush.
@SDC,
Khadija wife of Muhammad Nabi was a rich business woman in arabic medivel time (as you say woman billionars in this time). She supported Md Nabi in his tough times. She is the first muslim woman who accepted islam…Your argument does not hold good, a billionare woman can have more men as husband. You ask such woman what they prefer really, whether they are prepared to live with more husband. You will get answer. Why do you want answer for this childish question from me? Pl read all my posting here everything I have answered logically & scientifically with social wisdom. My aim is to clarify the misunderstanding, not to create misunderstanding again and again in the society as this whole website created for creating misunderstanding and misconception purposely. Islam already accepts doing justice for one wife, I also accept, many muslims practice. But exceptional situations either will lead to adultery or polygamy..Islam recommends option of polygamy if the concerned women are ready to share, If your system allows husbands are ready to share their wives, Pl go ahead. Islam will never permit this..
Allah knows everything what we want, He will judge between you and me on what we argue during judgement day…
@SDC,
@Ashwin
What do you justify ?
1. Concepts of God as per Hindu Mythologies and custom, traditions, supertitions of Hindu trdiations?
2. Creating a divided soceity based on birth and constantly suppressing lower castes , not doing anything to uplift them
3. Accepting social degradation of the soceity displaying woman as sexual objects in advertisement, cinema, net , public places, parties, creation of redlight areas, accepting adultery as part of soceity, alchoholisms, corruption etc,
4. Creating misunderstanding / misconception among peace loving people of Hindus and muslims as brothers
I am really against all these, if you advise me mental treatment. I clarified my point what I am against, you have not told any of your agenda clearly.. How can I support you, if feel you support Hindu concept of God, idol worshipping , stories and mythologies, divide people on case, encourage adultery in the soceity, create misconceptions among peace loving people. This is the reason I left your religion called Hinduism still not able to define even in this modern world..give correct idea on who is God? What is God?
Allah already helped me to go in right path. Pl help me to follow my Islam. Pl do not trouble us.
Islam has answer for all your misconceptions whatever confusion you create to misguide us.
SHAIKH DUDE, you seem to be under the impression that this is a Hindu site supporting caste system devdasi etc. Kindly go through the objectives section of satyagni and agniveer and then open your mouth. Here is for starters :
http://agniveer.com/category/objectives/caste-system/
You will find a section for women too.
and you can dream on that muslims doesnt involve in caste system. Apart from 72 sects, there are many castes within the sects too. There are untouchables. Kindly google for a documentary on untouchability in India: the last section is on islam, where the ‘lower caste’ muslims speak of the unfair treatement meted out to them at the hands of upper castes. And now that you are going to say that these are all man made and they are not following true Islam, why not apply the same to hinduism too? Vedas prohibit such discrimination, and you will find detailed articles in the above mentioned link.
Now for your Degradation of women. Please give me your mail ID. I will give you hundreds, nay,thousands of vidoes :hidden cam, prostitution, and other ‘varieties’ , country specific, of muslims engaged in immoral sex. Right from college videos to ones within the four walls, you will gasp at the levels of immorality shown here, and wearing the holy “burqa” in it
“Allah already helped me to go in right path. Pl help me to follow my Islam. Pl do not trouble us.”
Allah helped Muhhamad to have sex with a child. Do you want me to help you in this regard?
and before you start blabbering that she was just married and screwing happened later on at the age of 9, when she had attained maturity, would you marry off your own mature 9 year old kid to a 50+ man? If yes, my above comment on mental treatment applies,coz you would be termed a paedo in any sane society of today. If no, well, quit the path you think is correct pronto : check out here what is true hinduism and then decide.
@Ashwin, Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
Medically it is accepted a girl to go for a marriage or sexual life with her husband immediately after her puberty. Age need not to be a stopping factor for love. This is each one’s individual choice to decide what should be the age of husband or wife. Pl check with some sexologists and tell me what should be age restriction. Pl note islam do not force anyone of us to go for Balya Vivag or child marriage. Pl do not generate misunderstanding unless you know completely islam
l do not bring other factors like mental maturity and all such factors. Since you find this is the great reason to recommend leave islam, pl note Muhammad nabi is not our God, he is human only, but what about sexual stories of hindu Gods..That is the reason I have already left Hinduism. I do not what you are telling as true hinduism, are you the founder of true hinduism. Tell me your theory on God, first I will convey that to Hindus..to protect their children from God..Muhammad Nabi already died..your God is still living in your image..stories like Gopis..How I will accept Hinduism. Pl tell me geneuine reason to sell Hinduism to me.pl, pl give me good reason, not illogical things..
My argument does not hold good, and yours does. You propose polygamy so that men do not become adulterous and stoning to death so that women do not commit adultery. And this reasoning is fair, according to you. I rest my case. No more comments from me as I now know that you are a male chauvinist. And also, I did not only mean husbands, I also meant male slaves like the one Razia Sultan had for herself. Allah knows that men like Shaikh want multiple wives and sex slaves and they would also crave for 72 houris and he has fulfilled their wishes by giving them a quranic sanction. Good on you, mate.
That is the beauty of this religion. There is something for everyone. Whereas in Islam or for that matter Christianity, you have to be mold yourself to fit into it and hence not inclusive. Have you heard of the story of 5 hindustani who were blind and went to the zoo to see/feel an elephant. You cannot confine the limitless and this what Hinduism believes in. When you give a definition to God you have set its limits and thus your god is no longer limitless because it then gets confined to your definition. In Hinduism, different scholars have given their own version of the Ultimate. It might seem a bit confusing to some, but in plain terms understand this, you cannot set limits for the limitless and once you have done so, then you have yourself downgraded limitlessness to limited entity. The god of islam is definitely not limitless because you have set boundaries for it, and you have also created a satan that is outside of the specified circle of god. If in case you have not been able to grasp it, I won’t be amazed. It needs some deeper insight. Therefore, in Hinduism, there is no such thing as permanent good or evil. There is a devata in every asura and an asura in every devata. There are actions and equal and opposite reactions to those actions (theory of karma akin to laws of motion).
@SDC Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
Thanks for your query .
—–you have also created a satan that is outside of the specified circle of god. If in case you have not been able to grasp it, I won’t be amazed—–Therefore, in Hinduism, there is no such thing as permanent good or evil—–There is a devata in every asura and an asura in every devata. There are actions and equal and opposite reactions to those actions (theory of karma akin to laws of motion)——
THIS IS A NICE AND GENUINE THOUGHTS BY YOU ABOUT YOUR CREATOR ( GOD) . I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS VERY NICE, WE CAN DISCUSS ON SUCH TOPICS OF RELIGIOUS UNDERSTANDING OR SCHOOL OF THOUGHTS ON NATURE GOD THAN TO DISCUSS (than sexual or personal allegations on each other)
Allah says
O people of the Book! Go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not anything but the truth concerning God, up to God is but one God; Transcendent is He, above having a son. [4:171]
They have taken their rabbis and monks as lords up to Transcendent is God above what they empartner. [9:31]
Is it not of their own calumny that they say: God has begotten? They are truly liars up to Transcendent is God above what they describe. [37: 15 1-9 ]
lâ hawla wa lâ quwwata illâ bi Allâh- There is neither change nor power except by means of Allâh. (No Good or bad happens except by the the permission of Allah
lâ = no, not, none, neither
hawla = change, alteration, transformation, movement, motion
wa = and
lâ = no, not, none, neither
quwwata = strength, power, potency, force, might, vigor
illâ = but, except, if not
bi = with, to, for, in, through, by means of
Allâh = Arabic name for the Supreme Being
“Do you worship what you have carved yourself?” (37:95)
“Or have you taken unto you others beside Him to be your protectors, even such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?” (13:16)
When night outspread over him he saw a star and said, ‘This is my Lord.’ But when it set he said, ‘I love not the setters.’ When he saw the moon rising, he said, ‘This is my Lord.’ But when it set he said, ‘If my Lord does not guide me I shall surely be of the people gone astray.’ When he saw the sun rising, he said, ‘This is my Lord; this is greater.’ But when it set he said, ‘O my people, surely I quit that which you associate, I have turned my face to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth; a man of pure faith, I am not of the idolaters.'” (6:76-79)
“He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.” (59:22-24)
—-You propose polygamy so that men do not become adulterous and stoning to death so that women do not commit adulteryNo more comments from me as I now know that you are a male chauvinist—-
THERE IS A SOLUTION NEEDED TO CARE THE CHILDREN MAY ARISE OUT OF ADULTERY, SUPPORT NEEDED FOR SURPLUS WOMAN, WIDOWER, CONFLICT SITUATIONS OF LOVE etc.,FOR FEW PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE. EITHER WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM SINNERS , HELPLESS OR TO SUPPORT THEM LEGALLY. THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL WISH. ONE MAN CAN EAT MORE SWEETS, BUT A SWEET CAN NOT EAT MORE MEN. if you think you will say me I am a sweety person. Only think while eating sweet it has to be yours not someone’s, also there is limit to eat the sweet.
——Allah knows that men like Shaikh want multiple wives and sex slaves and they would also crave for 72 houris and he has fulfilled their wishes by giving them a quranic sanction. Good on you, mate—-
FATHER OF PSYCOLOGY , SIGMOND FREUD, AFTER SAYS DEEP SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH TOLD THAT EVERY ACTION HAS SEXUAL MOTIVE. SOME ONE HIDES AND TELL LIES AS IF HE IS A PURE PERSON. MY PROFESSOR IN MY PSYCHOLOGY CLASS PROVED THAT EVEN COMMON PEOPLE WORSHIP GOD FOR THE MOTIVE OF SEX. PL DO NOT HIDE YOURSELF IF YOU THINK IF YOU ARE A BETTER SCIENTIST,PSYCHOLOGISTS OR LOGICAL PERSON. YOU ASK YOUR INNER DESIRES. SEX IS A GREAT ENERGY GIVEN TO HUMAN BY GOD. MAN IS IMPERFECT AND DEPENDENT. GOD ONLY PERFECT & INDEPENDENT. GOD KNOWS WHAT TO GIVE A MAN IN THE PARADISE.
BUT I AM THINKING TO MEET MY GOD..TO SEE HIM IN PARADISE..MY PLEASURE IS IN SEEING MY LORD..
EVERY OTHER THING IS LITTLE SATISFIES ME.
thanks for your nice interaction
Quran remains living book from the day revealed until today will remain until end of the world unchanged . Books like Harry Potter will live for some duration and will get altered. Quran remains challenge to any field human come across. Quran already protected from God. Quran itself answers for all such controversial , logical questions raised by suspicious people.. Best Question God asks than ” Can you produce one chapter like quran?” Pl take help of all the humans ever came and Jinns except Allah. Are you ready for competition if you really disbeleive?!
Claim No 5 / 6 / 7: It is true that most of the disbeleivers accept Quran and Islam is true after getting into analysis. But many factors do not allow them to accept Islam against it is only Allah can provide Hidhayat , guidance to enter Islam. Pl note Allah has shown Mercy and given guidance to even worst enemies of Islam in history. All the hearts are within Allah’s two finger he may turn as He likes.Is there any scientist who claimed as who created the universe? Who claims as who created universe , pl mention in which book or Veda? What is His / Her name ? Allah is claiming as created whole universe in the book Quran. Pl answer to disprove Allah’s claim . This means already many scientists silently approving this fact. Give the quran to them. Give the quran to any sincere religious scholars, study with them and get answer.Claim 7 is based on data that women is west started realising that they have been used as sexual object. They can clearly understand that islam protects them.
Claim 8 : Quran is the first book which educates human as sphere, all the scholars of islam telling the world, Pl note Kaaba is the center of the world. Kaaba is from deep inside ground and above heaven. If any one try getting into earth from kabaa insha Allah he will reach center of sphere. If you try entering from delhi or bangalore or some other place you may reach hell ! Pl note kabaa is the center in the sense of surface of earth as well as deep inside. It is not a claim it is a observation that God chosen a center for assembly of beleivers which is kaaba
Claim 9 : It is better muslim to obstain from such claims as Allah’s miracle, because some one can also claim as Shiva’s , Vishnu’s, Jesus, Budhdha miracle. Prophet Muhammad (sal) told us quran is the miracle given to us, let others see miracle of Islam through quran.
Claim 10: Already quan and Allah accept that people may enter islam or exit. It is God’s will. But comparatively if you analyse the fact that more people entering islam compared to exit. But in case of other religions more on in exit than entry
And yes, I agree that islam does protect them (women) by using them as sex slaves or as one of their multiple wives.
May be you need to study your inner psychology with best psychologist. Pl note
1. Islam do not allow our mother’s and sister to dance half naked or display full naked. Pl check a hidden websites, cinema, or public parties or drama or cine field, still it is artistic in the name of your religions. Pl get into fact. I request you to understand and stop such non senses
2. Pl look into you mythologies study the affair of your God’s, how openly you worship penis (sorry if you have different answer)..what is the logic..Pl tell me if you are truthful. God and angels are pure from all such things.
3. Pl study the system of Devadasi, opening of modern redlight area..why you are not so sincere in closing all such non-sense.
We have to protect girls from all such non sense..How you understand is you mind, God know’s. No one will show mercy to words of wolves. We need to protect us from many cultural degarades, Islam will never accept all such cultural degrades. Even Hindu and Christian scholars will accept this intention
Now, this is self-contradictory. You talk of Freud and then go on to defend the pleasures of jannat in the previous post and then you make a contrasting statement here. Islam does not allow women to indulge in sexual overtures, but has given the men a free hand in this regard, allowing them 4 marriages and in fact more marriages by making the process of divorce easy and also allowing for sex slaves. Furthermore, there are enticements of 72 houris in heaven. You do not see any vulgarity in that, but you have problems with “hidden websites, cinema, or public parties or drama or cine field”.
@shaikh
bhagawad gita is better than quran, kambar ramayanam is better than quran,The Art of War is better than quran, what more proofs do you want?
@adolf:
The Art of War is better than quran
Quran IS the best War Manual for all times to come. A Quran Momin has to slay the disbeliever wherever he finds them. If not, he falls short in the eyes of Allah 🙁
Just one of the many peaceful verses from the Holy Quran 9:5.
PLEASE WRITE THE QURANIC VERSES IN FULL AND TRY NOT TO QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT
THE VERSE NO. 5 CONTINUES
—-BUT IF THEY REPENT,AND TAKE TO PRAYER REGULARLY AND PAY THE ALMS, THEN LET THEM GO THEIR WAY.ALLAH IS FORGIVING AND MERCIFUL.
VERSE 6 CONTINUES THE PEACE COMMAND COMMANDED TO THE BELIEVERS AS FOLLOWS
IF ANY ONE OF THE MUSHRIKS SEEKS ASYLUM WITH U, GRANT IT TO HIM SO THAT HE MAY HEAR THE WORD OF ALLAH;THEN CONVEY HIM TO A PLACE OF SAFETY. THIS IS BECOZ THEY R PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE
@M HASEEB GANAIE
The continuation verses indicate the military ideology of quran, a non believer either has to convert or to pay tax? What sort of a religious books is that which says to fight non believers and get taxes from them?
If you accept the instructions are for 7th century tribes and way robber i am ok with the instructions, but Muslims don’t even accept that some of the instructions are to a specific period.
@ Brother Adolf,
@ Brother Haseeb G.
Namaste,
Brother adolf the Verse doesnt say convert or pay tax. it says Convert AND pay Tax…. it was in the continuation of the previous Verse… that when the Peaceful treaty is over u are not obliged to Maintain peace with them.. WAIT for them.. to kill them… and if they Repent…repent for what?? Repent for not believing in Allah(Subah ana abhi Taala) and Muhammad(Sala Ullu Alihi Wassallam).. and then Take to Prayers and Pay Alms… leave them…. in short.. it says… break all the peaceful treaties with them and kill them if they dont convert to Islam… thats it!!…
Read Carefully from 9:1 to 9:6,… Quran.com translated by Yusuf Ali and Pickthall..
9:1 Pickthall
Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.
Yusuf Ali
A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-
9:2 Pickthall
Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance).
Yusuf Ali
Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
9:3 Pickthall
And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,
Yusuf Ali
And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
9:4 Pickthall
Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Yusuf Ali
(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
9:5 Pickthall:
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali:
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
9:6 Pickthall:
And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.
Yusuf Ali:
If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
So Zakir’s Claim of 9:6 being a peaceful verse goes Kaput by Allah’s Previous and Following Verse.. and as such 9:6 isn’t peaceful at all.. after all Idolaters are Men without Knowledge cause they dont believe in a Schizophrenic Pedophile 🙁
@adolf
War , Treaty, War ethics, principles, Peace, agreements, whom to war or whom not to war is very well thought in quran..you need to read full verses before and after 9:5 verse , also what happened in the history.
If a government announces SHOOT AT SIGHT order in a tough situation hope you will imagine everyone will be killed. need not to be..Pl read the background history of this verse. Why our goverment kills enemies who attack our Parliment. Similarly this situation is clearly explained when pagan tried to prepare was in kaaba a holy place, again God explains the place of war, importance, gives time for retreat of enemies during the sacred month, whom should war, whom should not war, whom should support even during the war! Pl read completely Yes it is the best war manual to bring peace.
009.003 And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
009.004 (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
009.006 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
009.007 How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.
009.008 How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
009.009 The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.
009.010 In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds
@shaikh,
>>Similarly this situation is clearly explained when pagan tried to prepare war in kaaba a holy place, .
Actually kaba is place of worship of pagans, It is muhammad who started terror attack on pagans palces of worship by destroying the godesses al-lut…. If you destroy others place of worship and declare war on them it is called agression, not peace.
>>009.003
You destroy their place of worship and impose taxes on people who fighted for their right. If indian govt does this then muslims will wage a jihad, but muslims expect pagans not to wage a war! hypocrites.
>>009.004
Is it righteousness or just a strategy that it is better to do a war with small enemies before going to war with the previous pagan friends?
>>009.005
What a merciful allah, raping pagan religion and imposing a tax on them. What use is it to kill a weak enemy when they can give money in the form of taxes and be a second class citizen. Oh muhammad is one of the best strategist!!.
>>009.006
All kafirs are fools!!
>>009.007 && 009.008
How can pakistanis be friends of india, as long as they dont attack india , dont attack them, but you know their hearts are filled with hatered against india , so be prepared for war.
All these instructions boil down to , “we muslims cannot be at peace with kafirs unless we dominate them or kill them in war” nice way to peace.
yes @kalbhairav i have to agree quran is the best medival war manual. It has conveyed in just a page of verses all the teachings of art of war
@adolf Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
Your arguments are nice but forgotten basics of the conflict. Kaaba belonged and under the control of clan Quraish. Family of Muhammad Nabi administered the Kabaa, idols was inside Al-lut and many were good people. Arabs worshipper their ancestors by placing them as idols / statues inside and outside kaaba.Muhammad Nabi (sal) and his followers preached not to worship their ancestors in the name of idols. He was the grandson of custodian of kaaba that time, conflict was within their relatives, 10 years he patiently telling the truth to worship one God purely receiving all the torture of their relatives , then followers of the truth migrated to Madina , when people of Madina accepted the truth. Still disbeleivers from his family only attacked muslims in their offence. All were relatives brothers, uncles, cousins .
But one was on the side of Truth, telling to worship one God purely – not to worship idols another was on false beleiving false gods and dividing the people..Kabaa was captured peacefully without any bloodshed, when most of the people accepted the truth of islam later after 23 years, few disbelivers were forgiven for their criminal acts.. Muhammad (sal) destroyed all the idols including idol of prophet Ibrahim, we consider him as a great people..We muslim will break even if some one makes idol or photo or picture of Muhammad Nabi….Pl understand the basics…
Even if I consider your logical argument is okay you need to preach hinduism to arabs then if everybody accepts idol worship again then if they place idol..(may be possibility)..similarly if every converts to Islam here and remove the idol , no one can ask such questions.
Do not compare this with India- Pakistan conflict. You can always fight with Pakistan. No problem for us. It is a problem of land , not a concept.Pakistanis do not fight for Islam, they fight for their share of land in Kashmir.They say India helped another muslim nation Bangaladesh to seperate from them. It is linked with history of british, there are many muslim countries peaceful relation with India as for as politics is concerned. Pl understand if India was not divided it is a muslim majority country..These are conspiracy by British, Jinnah (a shia) , congress and Hindu intellectuals. We do not bother if you go and fight with Pakistan. We will fight with you also..We do not know the logic why you keep blaming Indian muslims? or Islam? Even many hindu brothers getting aware of this, truth will be always victorious.
Even if you produce evidence that a muslim destroyed a temple then we need to give it back..but you do not give any evidence even in the court of law..but there are many evidences came muslims built temples for hindus in the history. Pl tell me what is a temple? Is there unique definition….
A muslim can not make a war if a warring disbeliever of islam returns to peace at any time. A muslim can make a war only when a warring disbeliver of islam makes the war. Not with a disbeliver who is loving peace or lives with agreement even he declares his enmity. Warring disbeliver of islam have always option to avoid war at any point of time as per law of quran.
Pl do not compare recent political matters or even muslims go against islamic law due to their extremism. When there is a lot of scope is there to make understanding why do you love misunderstanding? THIS IS SIMPLE YOUR FEAR COMPLEX THAT ISLAM OR MUSLIM WILL DOMINATE YOU. WE CAN NOT HELP YOU FOR YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL FEAR COMPLEX. ALLAH KNOWS BETTER.
@adolf Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
Thanks for your query .
Your arguments are nice but forgotten basics of the conflict.
Kaaba belonged to arabs and was under the control of clan Quraish. Family of Muhammad Nabi administered the Kabaa, idols was inside Al-lut and idols of many were good people. Arabs worshipped their idols / statues of their ancestors like Al-Lut inside and outside kaaba.Muhammad Nabi (sal) and his followers preached not to worship their ancestors as idols . He was the grandson of custodian of kaaba of that time, all the ideological conflict s were within their relatives, He patiently telling the truth to worship one God purely for 10 years while receiving all the torture of their relatives . When torture , cruelty and suppression by pagans increased followers of the truth migrated to Madina peacefully , when people of Madina accepted the truth. Still disbeleivers from Muhammad Nabi’s own family and relatives attacked muslims in offence. All were relatives brothers, uncles, cousins .
But one team was on the side of Truth, telling to worship one God purely – not to worship idols another was on beleiving false gods and dividing the people..Kabaa was captured peacefully without any bloodshed, when most of the people accepted the truth of islam later after 23 years, few disbelivers were forgiven for their criminal acts with grace.. Muhammad (sal) destroyed all the idols including idol of prophet Ibrahim, we consider him as a great people..We muslim will break even if some one makes idol or photo or picture of Muhammad Nabi….Pl understand the basics…
Even if I consider your logical argument is okay you need to preach hinduism to arabs then if everybody accepts idol worship again then if they place idol..(may be possibility)..similarly if every converts to Islam here and remove the idol , no one can ask such questions.
Do not compare this with India- Pakistan political conflict. You can always fight with Pakistan. No problem for us. It is a problem of land , not an ideological conflict .Pakistanis do not fight for Islam, they fight for their share of land in Kashmir.They say India helped another muslim nation Bangaladesh to seperate from them. It is linked with history of british, there are many muslim countries peaceful relation with India as for as politics is concerned. Pl understand if India was not divided it is a muslim majority country..These are conspiracy by British, Jinnah (a shia) , congress and Hindu intellectuals. We do not bother if you go and fight with Pakistan. We will fight with you also..We do not know the logic why you keep blaming Indian muslims? or Islam? Even many hindu brothers getting aware of this, truth will be always victorious.
Even if you produce evidence that a muslim destroyed a temple then we need to give it back..but you do not give any evidence even in the court of law..but there are many evidences came muslims built temples for hindus in the history. Pl tell me what is a temple? Is there unique definition….
A muslim can not make a war if a warring disbeliever of islam returns to peace at any time. A muslim can make a war only when a warring disbeliver of islam makes the war. Not with a disbeliver who is loving peace or lives with agreement even he declares his enmity. Warring disbeliver of islam have always option to avoid war at any point of time as per law of quran.
Pl do not compare recent political matters or even muslims go against islamic law due to their extremism. When there is a lot of scope is there to make understanding why do you love misunderstanding? THIS IS SIMPLE YOUR FEAR COMPLEX THAT ISLAM OR MUSLIM WILL DOMINATE YOU. WE CAN NOT HELP YOU FOR YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL FEAR COMPLEX. ALLAH KNOWS BETTER.
@shaik
>> Kabaa was captured peacefully without any bloodshed, when most of the people accepted the truth of islam later after 23 years, few disbelivers were forgiven for their criminal acts.. Muhammad (sal) destroyed all the idols including idol of prophet Ibrahim
capturing peacfully what does not belong to you is not a moral act my friend. Once muhammad started non believing in the idols he is no legal hire of the kaba and he will loose his rights a caretaker.
>> Even if I consider your logical argument is okay you need to preach hinduism to arabs then if everybody accepts idol worship again then if they place idol..(may be possibility)..similarly if every converts to Islam here and remove the idol , no one can ask such questions.
It is the other way round, as long as a single believer of islam i.e non idol worshipper is their , i cannot force placing idols in kaba.
The place of worship belongs to the believer, and no caretaker who converted his religion(beliefs) can destroy the palce of worship.
It is obvious from the pagan reaction that muhammad did not have majority in numbers when he destroyed the idols in kaba.
>> Do not compare this with India- Pakistan conflict.
i just gave that example to indicate that thoug muhammads words not to attack, all they indicate is wait for an opportunity to attack
>> Pl understand if India was not divided it is a muslim majority country..These are conspiracy by British, Jinnah (a shia) , congress and Hindu intellectuals.
No the percentage of populations is 20% muslims and 80% hindus(other religions) thats why india is divided in 20%:80% ratio.
>>A muslim can not make a war if a warring disbeliever of islam returns to peace at any time. A muslim can make a war only when a warring disbeliver of islam makes the war. Not with a disbeliver who is loving peace or lives with agreement even he declares his enmity. Warring disbeliver of islam have always option to avoid war at any point of time as per law of quran.
history proves otherwise. if you dont want to accept indian proofs , you can search for turks ethnic cleansing of cyprus
>>Pl do not compare recent political matters or even muslims go against islamic law due to their extremism. When there is a lot of scope is there to make understanding why do you love misunderstanding
The rooting of islam lies in misconception about idol worship and shirk.
When a person worships idol all he has in mind is the idea of god and not the least idea that idol which is made by blacksmith is god.
When a person says he is the son of god, he is stating the eternal truth that we are created by god , the life in us is the creation of god and bilogical father is just an instrument in the hand of god.
Islam took these two ideas from previous religions, made them a great sin and used violence to expand.
@adolf,
You may have nice theory on God. But God will settle our disputes during the judgement who were on the right path..I prefer worshipping God purely without making any partner to him , glorifing his through idols, or making son and daughter to him. Why don’t you understand my position and respect that. We need not to dispute. You have every right to disagree your God, dispute with God directly. It is never said a muslim has to break some one’s idol..He has to break his idols..Arabs broken their idols in Kabaa by understanding the truth on God. Glory of God can not be shared by anyone, any idols, any son or daugter. This is how we muslims need to understand God. This is nothing against basics of any Vedas
@shaikh
>> But God will settle our disputes during the judgement who were on the right path.
Your prophet forgot to give us the date of judgement day. Will it happen in next 100 years? or i have to rot in grave for 1000 years?
>> I prefer worshipping God purely without making any partner to him
You always assosciate muhammad to allah. You deny to even accept ahmediyas who accept the same kalma as yours.
>>glorifing his through idols, or making son and daughter to him
you are assosciating human nature called envy/jealousy to god. why will god hate any idol if it is used for remembering him? and why will god punish me if i call myself as son of god?
>> Why don’t you understand my position and respect that.
As your position is founded on misconceptions i dont need to give any repsect to your position.
>>We need not to dispute.
Ofcourse i have no idea of converting you or giving hidaya to you, I believe god as the guide of all and hence no possibility of any dispute arises.
@adolf, if you are comfortable with Bagwat Gita, Kamba Ramayana you may follow that , I am not stopping you
@shaikh,
It is not what i follow which is important. It is the challenge(or assumed challenge) which muslims are throwing at non believers. When non believers bring some literary works which are better than quran(subjective to the person) then muslims will be the judge and we know the outcome. If you are simultaneously the challenger and a judge how will non believers accept the challenge?
The same is case with last prophethood of muhammad. It is a proven fact that many sects,religions, prophets came after muhammad in contrast with words of muhammad (i dont believe he uttered them) . Once again muslims tries to be the judge and the litigant here. This one clause has resulted in violence be it either killing of Mansur Al-Hallaj, sikh gurus or the present day ahmadiyas.
@adolf, In my case Kamba Ramayana looks like a comic book, Bagavat Gita, a unnatural happened for a meaningless subject, destruction of entire Indian nations. When Budhdha created a reformed Hinduism why you have rejected? When Duryodhana king of Srilanka, guarded chastity of Sita, why Rama suspected? Many things are hidden in Kamba Ramayana, pl read Valmiki Ramayana in Sanskrit.
@shaik
____________In my case Kamba Ramayana looks like a comic book_________
By the way What comic you look in Ramayan.
One query- Why Allah denied to noble people like Gandhi Ji, Dalia Lama, Mother Taresha, Sokarat, Newton, Ainstine all other many great legends to enter in Kaba although rapist, criminal, terrorist are allowed to enter in kaba.
@shaik
>>destruction of entire Indian nations.
who are we then some arabs? when kings dies new kings come up nothing lost except some warring groups of people.
>>When Budhdha created a reformed Hinduism why you have rejected?
Whos said he was rejected? He was given a prominent status as avtar of vishnu, his path is accepted as one path among many, what more do you want indians to do?
On the other budhism is the cause of downfall of india. It has internally weakened our defences and made india vulnerable for invading forces from arabia.
Can i ask the same question to you and your brothers in pakistan – when ghulam ahmad tried to reform islam why do you presecute them?
>> When Duryodhana king of Srilanka, guarded chastity of Sita, why Rama suspected?
Duryodhana and sita? are you ok? I dont know ramayana that much.
May be at that time rama thought the respect of his family name is more import than respect of his wife.
>>Many things are hidden in Kamba Ramayana,
We are discussing the literary work and morals taught.There are many ramyans and the validity/invalidity of ramas existance is not what we are discussing.
>>In my case Kamba Ramayana looks like a comic book,
Even when i read quran and shahi hadiths all i find is dividing people in the name of believers, non believers, justifying sex slaves(right hand posessions), promising brothels and liquor in heaven,preaching morals which the preacher himself doesnot follow. for ex- muhammad slept with sex slaves commiting adultery when his wife visited her father, but he preaches punishment for adultery, muhammad preaches that normal people should not be harmed, but he invades a caravan and ask his followers to slit their necks in darknes, muhammad preaches maximum of four wives but cooked up allahs speacial permission to satisfy his lust….
what sort of hypocrite he is? dont you feel shame to emulate such a person and call him greatest..
@Shaik
There is polytheist/idolater in my neighbor if I kill him, loots his property & make his wife sex slaves. What treatment I would deserve according to Kuran/Allah? Will it be heaven or hell for me?& Why heaven/hell?
@adolf,
This is not acceptable in islam, killing innocent, if they war with you you can do war to protect you. You can not kill anyone in the name of islam
@Shaik Namaste Brother
____________This is not acceptable in islam, killing innocent, if they war with you you can do war to protect you. You can not kill anyone in the name of islam_________
Brother I want to kill idolater/polytheist not innocent, want loot their property, make sex slaves their women. I am on path of great Mohmamd. What treatment would be given to me for this as per Kuran. Is it will be heaven/hell. After all it is matter of 72virgins. I do want to miss the chance of getting heaven & enjoy with virgins.
A group of radicals attacking a poor choir group for singing a song starting with the word ‘GURUVAYOORAPA’ infront of BEEMAPALLI MASJID.
This choir group was collecting money to treat a 7 yr old kid who was suffering with cancer. witnessing it was so pathetic.
I personally heard a man who is between age of 45 to 55 threatening them by telling they wont allow any kafir songs in their place.
Later these radicals made them to sing a muslim movie song purposefully and made them cry for help.
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=14259&SKIN=C
@ , Adolf
Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
—–Even when i read quran and shahi hadiths all
i find is dividing people in the name of believers, non believers,——-
Yes it is true, if one agrees the truth of quran he is beleiver, if some one does not accept he is a disbeleiver. If you are a disbeliver of Islam then I am a disbeleiver of Hinduism. But we have a choice to change from beleif to disbeleif. It is only state of mind for conviction of a certain truth. But pl tell me Hinduism divides people based on birth. Brahmin, Kshathriya, Vaishya, Shutra..(funny)..can you tell me a Japanese or chinese or british is a brahmin or Shutra? Ok if I become a Hindu I will become a brahmin or Sutra…When you people dividing us we have left your faith..we are non beleiver of Hinduism
————- justifying sex slaves (right hand posessions),—————-
Slaves are accepted system in olden days during the time of Islam also. A slave can be a male or female also. It was a accepted system in India also. Islam gave ways to eradicate slavery system and uplifted them. If a master lives with a female slave then he becomes his wife and their children gets legal son status. This liberates her from slavery. But to live with a woman slave or non-slave one needs their acceptance. No one can force them. Can you give me evidence of forcing? As per old system in any culture slaves are supposed to obey their masters? But islam makes a condition not to force them for adultery. Do you want to dig into hindu Vedas or histories of similar kind
——- promising brothels and liquor in heaven——–
Your words are highly exaggerated and cheaper. What is the definition of brothel-one who sells her body for money. no one in need of money in heaven. Good drinks are there in heaven but nothing like you imagine in your life ( You have shown your inner mind only). This is mental sickness
——–,preaching morals which the preacher himself doesnot follow. for ex- muhammad slept with sex slaves commiting adultery when his wife visited her father, but he preaches punishment for adultery, muhammad preaches that normal people should not be harmed, but he invades a caravan and ask his followers to slit their necks in darknes, muhammad preaches maximum of four wives but cooked up allahs speacial permission to satisfy his lust———-
Do you think slaves can not be wives? Md. Nabi had wives from slaves also. But a Brahmin can not marry a shutra. adultery is illegal relationship, which means a relationship beyond marriage. Marriage has certain conditions in Islam , giving dower to a girl, acceptance of her as wakil, also declaration to soceity as they are spouses. In case of a slave girl master need not to give a dower because already she is right hand possessed, only condition is acceptance of both to live each other as husband and wife. Also you need to study status of wives of Muhammad Nabi, mother of beleiver, so they could not be divorced when Allah limited the no of wives to all. Then another misconception about a particular war you need to study complete history of war. Who was on truth when a war happens, you may study Bhagwat Gita also.
How many Buddhist / Buddha Vihar’s was destoyed? You try to pose Duryodhana and Tamils as evils in Ramayana? Hinduism and Veda’s are only about greatness of Arya philosophies or Arya Kings and people. After complete study some section of Indians decided to follow islam, some decided to follow christianity or some Budhdha, If Hindusim is complete truth why we need to leave Hinduism?
@shaik
>>>Brahmin, Kshathriya, Vaishya, Shutra..(funny)..
They are professions and level of intelligence of people and has nothing to do with division.
In vedas killing a person just because hs is a shudra is not allowed,but killing an infidel if he doesnt pay ziziya is your responisibility.
>>>A slave can be a male or female also.
Can muslim ladies have sex with their male slaves? I know it happens even now but is it legal?
>>>It was a accepted system in India also.
India prefer to convey the message of rama aka one woman as wife and no right hand posessions allowed.
>>>Islam gave ways to eradicate slavery system and uplifted them. If a master lives with a female slave then he becomes his wife and their children gets legal son status. This liberates her from slavery.
Great way of uplifitng, I never thought of uplifiting dalits by keeping them as slaves and giving my family name to the offsprings, yuk i get a bad feeling even at that thought.
>>>But to live with a woman slave or non-slave one needs their acceptance. No one can force them. Can you give me evidence of forcing?
As per old system in any culture slaves are supposed to obey their masters? But islam makes a condition not to force them for adultery. Do you want to dig into hindu Vedas or histories of similar kind
Yes you can give me references from vedas, but not history.
Good justification given, as if slaves can say no and still get good treatment!! Freedom with limitations is no freedom at all.
@shaik
>>>Your words are highly exaggerated and cheaper. What is the definition of brothel-one who sells her body for money. no one in need of money in heaven.
If not money then something else, may be fear of god…
Then why do 72 houris stay with the same man, dont some of them feel bored when you go for rounds with other houris?
>>>Good drinks are there in heaven but nothing like you imagine in your life ( You have shown your inner mind only). This is mental sickness
I see expecting 72 sex slaves is not sickness, but to consider that physical pleasures cannot give happiness is mental sickness
>>>Do you think slaves can not be wives? Md. Nabi had wives from slaves also.
Diverting the topic, stick to the topic of muhmmad adhering to the moral codes of conduct he prescribed to others.
>>> But a Brahmin can not marry a shutra.
Nowhere is such a rule given
>>>adultery is illegal relationship…..
read some hadits where muhammad is accused by his wife
>>> Then another misconception about a particular war you need to study complete history of war. Who was on truth when a war happens,
He gave instructions like “not to kill innocent people and cattle of enemies….”. I dont remember the correct reference.
But he himself plundered and butchered the so called non believers caravans!!
>>>you may study Bhagwat Gita also.
Gita never says go and kill people in the darkness. Gita asked arjuna to fight when challenged by kauravas.
>>> How many Buddhist / Buddha Vihar’s was destoyed?
Two wrongs never make a right. Yes hindus may have done some violent acts, Could you now declare muhammad has commited crime by taking rehana as slave?
>>>You try to pose Duryodhana and Tamils as evils in Ramayana? Hinduism and Veda’s are only about greatness of Arya philosophies or Arya Kings and people. After complete study some section of Indians decided to follow islam, some decided to follow christianity or some Budhdha, If Hindusim is complete truth why we need to leave Hinduism?
Lord shiva who tamils and ravana worship is a hindu god. try your taqiya some where else.
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——-Brahmin, Kshathriya, Vaishya, Shutra..(funny)..They are professions and level of intelligence of people and has nothing to do with division—–
I am very happy to hear this from all Hindu brother. It will be great if a brahmin cleans a toilet when a Sutra told him. If such professionalism comes in India all the reservation nuisance policies Govt can throw away. Insha Allah Isalm will make you to do all this . Nowadays a lot of professions came like Doctors, engineers, scientist..which also can be included in Hinduism.
——Can muslim ladies have sex with their male slaves? I know it happens even now but is it legal?—
Many noble muslim woman married slaves and liberated them from slavey, even they became great rulers and scholars of Islam. Will this come to a forward caste Hindu woman for marrying a sutra. Legally a woman can marry only one man either free person or a slave. (Why you imagine a girl having more slave men?. It is all you crooked mind says how to find fault with islam through your childish logics)
—-India prefer to convey the message of rama aka one woman as wife and no right hand posessions allowed—–
Pl study history of slavery in India. Get to know from good historian
SLAVERY IS A VAST SUBJECT IN HUMAN HISTORY. PEOPLE READ UNBIASED WAY. EVEN POLISHED AND MODERN FORM OF SLAVERY STILL EXISTS. HINDUISM ALREADY ACCEPTED SLAVERY BY MAKING CONCEPT OF SUTRAS. Islam says one has to obey only to his creator Allah. This only can liberate entire society to freedom. Hinduism is all about making human into God and obeying / worshiping humans to humans. Yes agree there are truth hidden in Veda but you still buried all these truths. When you explore you will see Islam there. Pl do not waste your time, read Quran for the path of salvation given to all humankind. (Do not give logics like it is from Arab….etc., then why do you use petrol? still you can go in cart if you are genuine hindus, why you need technologies from christians ? Pl take positive from everywhere..if you have positive definitely we will take brother)
@shaik
>>I am very happy to hear this from all Hindu brother. It will be great if a brahmin cleans a toilet when a Sutra told him.
There are rikshaw pullers in birth based brahmin caste and if the situation continues they may do toilet cleaning business too.
The sulabh souchalay is started by a brahmin(caste based) and many of the branches are maintained by brahmins(caste based).
>>If such professionalism comes in India all the reservation nuisance policies Govt can throw away. Insha Allah Isalm will make you to do all this .
Nowadays a lot of professions came like Doctors, engineers, scientist..which also can be included in Hinduism.
The four basic categories still persist, brahmin – knower of brahman, kshatriya – warriors , vaisya- investors, shudra – workers
you can class all professions you mentioned in any one of the above categories, no further classification is needed.
>>Many noble muslim woman married slaves and liberated them from slavey, even they became great rulers and scholars of Islam.
Will this come to a forward caste Hindu woman for marrying a shudra.
The original classification of brahmin… is based on gunas of a person rather than birth based caste.
There are many instances of brahmin(caste based) girls marrying shudras.
But do arab ladies marry pakistani muslims that frequently?
>>Legally a woman can marry only one man either free person or a slave. (Why you imagine a girl having more slave men?. It is all you crooked mind says how to find fault with islam through your childish logics)
Why is it legally constrained? Why cannot a women have multiple slaves?
Isnt it a crooked mind to do rounds with wives and right hand posessions while denying the same righ to women?
>>Pl study history of slavery in India. Get to know from good historian
The existence of slavery is not the point, the emphasis of indians is always on dharma, though there are many instances where people deviated from dharma.
>>Islam says one has to obey only to his creator Allah. This only can liberate entire society to freedom.
It has liberated(wiped) the cultures of persia and religions of parsi,zoroastrianism and is in the process of liberating ahmediyas.
>>Hinduism is all about making human into God and obeying / worshiping humans to humans.
Remembering good qualities of a human being is not a bad thing in the idea of hindus.Hindu god is epitome of patience and teaching,
he patiently waits for the jiva to gain knowledge and reveals the knowledge of god by sending a guru at the right time.
How come remembrance/emulation of muhammad is good thing, but remembrance/emultion of rama a bad thing?
>> Yes agree there are truth hidden in Veda but you still buried all these truths. When you explore you will see Islam there.
The truth hidden in vedas is eternal because it desires peace of all jivas, and all lokas.
Not like islam where killing of an infidel is allowed just because he insulted muhammad.
>>Pl do not waste your time, read Quran for the path of salvation given to all humankind.
Please do not waste your time with a religion which wants to dominate the world and kill all infidels. Please read vedas and upanishads and see that god is reflected in all living beings equally and gain permanent peace.
@Shaik
Namaste Brother
I want to sex with 8 years old child although I will give her right of my wife. What treatment would I deserve in Islam as per Kuran/Shariya?
@Shaik Namsate Brother
If you want to make people understand something, you can do this only by putting the things scientifically or logically. You just say you are correct, but not make understand others why are you are correct. Just belief blindly in something only leads to darkness. When something ask to you to prove logically, you just run away. Brother Allah has given you intellect do not believe blindly & if you get understand start to think logically/impartially/scientifically from this moment. & Please give me your response on this question asked to you before putting another irrelevant comment here-
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14019
@ , Truth Seeker,
Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——Why Allah punish his children for indefinite/eternal hell for finite bad deed. Why Allah does not live hell with his children if he omnipresent. What is the benefit of children to send them in eternal hell—
To answer you pl read Quran Surat Al-‘Ikhlāş chapter
112:1 Say, “He is Allah , [who is] One (Unique) – Ahad
112:2 Allah , the Eternal Refuge.- Who is in need of none and of Whom all are in need (As-samd)
112:3 He neither begets nor is born,
112 :4 Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
Islam do not say Allah is Omni-present but says Allah is Omni- Potent. God is Omni-present is Hindu or philosophies of Shirk (sharing partner with God). As per Islam God is the creator and other things are creation. God created everything out of nothing. It means Allah has given meaning to all nothings – Zero , it is his power. All creations in need of Allah to exist, but Allah can exist without any of his creation. Pl know your creator how Allah tells in Quran. This is the fundemental reason Hindu philosophy says God is everywhere and everything becomes God. Islam disagrees with such philosophies. Also Allah neither begets or nor born to anyone. He is pure from all. Only human reproduces needs sex and sexual energy given for regeneration of his next generation. Human sex has meaning if regulated correctly or that energy can destroy a society very silently. Pl note your words Allah does not have children only creations he knows well why he created us? God need not to be in hell or in heaven. Allah is beyond the space away from the creations. But Allah can control can his creation very closer. Wrong does must be punisherd. Hell exists for that. Allah knows better why he intended to punish his creations or reward them. But everyone will understand why his Lord Punishes him or Reward Him. You may ask this question to Allah when you meet Him during the judgment day. But I can say now that you are ignorant of Allah , your creator or tend to deny him. When you know fully about Allah all your misconception will go.
To answer you simply
If you call some one as father instead of your true father, what your true father will do for you?
If you call some one as mother instead of your true mother, what your true mother will do for you?
If your son call some one as father what you will do for him?
If you employ some worker for you in your business if they work for in favour of some one’s business what you will do?
If some one’s wife become loyal to some one what her husband will do?
It is a question of relationship betrayal. You need to understand first who is your creator? then you will get answer for your queries
@Shaik Namaste Brother,
_________Islam do not say Allah is Omni-present, Hindu philosophy says God is everywhere__________.
That is why Mohammad had to go on 7th Sky in search of Allah. Can u explain how Allah looks sitting on his comfortable throne.
___________-Why Allah punish his children for indefinite/eternal hell for finite bad deed_______
What is the benefit of eternal punishment. If soul created by Allah that means it will be destroyed one day than how eternal hell/heaven one may get. Again contradiction in Kuran.
__________Allah is Omni- Potent____________
Why Allah can not make me Allah?
________Wrong does must be punisherd_________
How wrong is judged by deed or worship? Why noble people are not allowed to enter in Kaba?
________Allah is beyond the space away ______________
What about Allah throne on 7th sky, is not space.
_________You may ask this question to Allah when you meet Him during the judgment day______________
When is judgment day? Why Allah forgot this most important thing to mention date of judgment day in his book Kuran.
_________God created everything out of nothing_________
Contradict statement/unscientific/illogical
And one more query—–What suddenly happened to Allah he got the idea of universe creation after sitting lazily billion of years on his comfortable throne. That is show Allah imperfectness.
@Truth seeker
—When is judgment day? Why Allah forgot this most important thing to mention date of judgment day in his book Kuran—
This is the example of your ignorance or knowledge of quran or Islam. I feel one degree graduate talking to a LKG student. Pl study Islam correct. Definitely I am interested for a a genuine questions from you..not a childish questions like all these..THIS WILL GIVE A BAD IMAGE TO YOUR WISDOM OF THIS WEBSITE.
JUDGEMENT DAY IS THE BASIS OF QURAN / ISLAM
@Shaik my dear Hindu converted to Muslim brother Namaste
Brother I have read Kuran but I nowhere found date of judgment day, If you know please let me know also & You have just pick this answered question and left rest most important part, Please go through link once again, You says yourself graduate but you do not have even a common sense & you are supporting my claim that Kuran Allah sitting lazily on his throne since billion of years & what happened to Allah he suddenly got the idea of universe creation, That shows Allah’s imperfectness & Allah forced the Aadam & Eve Children to do incest, Kuran theory of creating everything out of nothing is unscientific/illogical. You have not address my claims on Kuran & on Cruel Allah of Kuran that means you are agree with me. If you differ Please go through the link & response the all queries one by one.
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14051
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
I will give answer to all your queries
——I have read Kuran but I nowhere found date of judgment day, If you know please let me know——–
———-When is judgment day? Why Allah forgot this most important thing to mention date of judgment day in his book Kuran.________
He questions: “When is the Day of Resurrection?” At length, when the sight is dazed and the moon is buried in darkness, and the sun and moon are joined together that Day will Man say; “Where is the refuge?”
Qur’an 75.6-10
In that is a Sign for those who fear the penalty of the Hereafter: that is a Day for which mankind will be gathered together: that will be a Day of Testimony. Nor shall We delay it but for a term appointed.
Qur’an 11.102-7
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment: therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
Qur’an 43.61
And on the day when the Hour riseth the guilty will vow that they did tarry, but an hour – Thus were they ever deceived. But those to whom knowledge and faith are given will say: “The truth is, ye have tarried, by Allah’s decree, until the Day of Resurrection. This is the Day of Resurrection, but ye used not to know.”
Qur’an 30.55-57
Do they really believe that an all-encompassing punishment by God will not come upon them, or the Hour overtake them suddenly while they remain unaware of it?
Qur’an 12.107
And on The Day when the Hour arrives the guilty will swear that they remained (dead) but for an hour, thus they were ever deceived but to those to whom knowledge and faith are given will say: ”The truth is that you have remained (dead) until the Day of Resurrection by God’s decree. This is the Day of Resurrection, but you used not to know.” Qur’an CHapter 30 Verse 55-56
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——-Allah sitting lazily on his throne since billion of years & what happened to Allah he suddenly got the idea of universe creation——- What suddenly happened to Allah he got the idea of universe creation after sitting lazily billion of years on his comfortable throne. That is show Allah imperfectness—–
——-Kuran theory of creating everything out of nothing is unscientific/illogical.——- _God created everything out of nothing_________Contradict statement/unscientific/illogicalAnd one more query—
___Islam do not say Allah is Omni-present, Hindu philosophy says God is everywhere_________
That is why Mohammad had to go on 7th Sky in search of Allah. Can u explain how Allah looks sitting on his comfortable throne_Allah is beyond the space away ______________What about Allah throne on 7th sky, is not space._________
Allahu la ilaha illa Huwa, Al-Haiyul-Qaiyum La ta’khudhuhu sinatun wa la nawm, lahu ma fis-samawati wa ma fil-‘ard Man dhal-ladhi yashfa’u ‘indahu illa bi-idhnihi Ya’lamu ma baina aidihim wa ma khalfahum, wa la yuhituna bi shai’im-min ‘ilmihi illa bima sha’a Wasi’a kursiyuhus-samawati wal ard, wa la ya’uduhu hifdhuhuma Wa Huwal ‘Aliyul-Adheem
“Allah! There is no god but He – the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory).”
[Surah al-Baqarah 2: 255]
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
———–You have not address my claims on Kuran & on Cruel Allah of Kuran that means you are agree with me——–______Why Allah punish his children for indefinite/eternal hell for finite bad deed_______——-That shows Allah’s imperfectness & Allah forced the Aadam & Eve Children to do incest—————–What is the benefit of eternal punishment. If soul created by Allah that means it will be d_______Wrong does must be punisherd_________How wrong is judged by deed or worship?destroyed one day than how eternal hell/heaven one may get. Again contradiction in Kuran
(Quran 004.147 )
What can Allah gain by your punishment, if ye are grateful and ye believe?
Nay, it is Allah that recogniseth (all good), and knoweth all things.
@Shaik Namaste Brother
Just conversion into Arbi of this Veda Mantra & do editing in Arbi in the Mantra will not work
ॐ भूर्भुवः स्वः तत् सवितुर्वरेण्यं । भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि । धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ॥
Aum tát savitúr váreṇyaṃ bhárgo devásya dhīmahi dhíyo yó naḥ pracodáyāt
O One and Only One Ultimate Omnipotent Omniscient Ishwar!
You are Bhoo – the foundation of life in entire universe and unborn! You are dearer than life because life is sustained by you!
You are Buvah – completely devoid of sorrow. When we achieve you, all our sorrows vanish away.
You are Swah – the sustainer and maintainer of entire world and provider of all the bliss.
You are Savituh – the creator of entire world and provide us all the prosperities
You are Devah – who only gives and gives and never takes anything. Who is desired by all. Who is Brilliant, Who is enlightening!
Varenyam – You alone are worth being accepted. There is nothing except you that is worthwhile. When you are achieved, everything is achieved. And when you are not achieved, nothing is achieved. Because you are the source of everything.
Bhargah – You are pure and without any imperfections. You are the ultimate cleanser. Nothing unclean remains when one achieves you. You represent the most perfect state of purity!
Tat – Such are your characteristics that nothing else apart from you is worthwhile.
Dheemahi – We only accept you through our intellect. We utilize our power of thinking to think of you alone.
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat – Because it is you who has and who will enlighten our intellect. It is only you who will lead us from wrong towards right, from miseries towards bliss, from impurity towards purity, from Adharma towards Dharma, from hatred towards love, from evil deeds towards noble efforts.
Please clarify your stand on these linked below, do not digress the point
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14051
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
__________Allah is Omni- Potent____________Why Allah can not make me Allah?_
“Do you not know that Allah is capable of all things?” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 106]
INDIAN GOVT HAS ATOMIC BOMB, CAPABLE OF DROPPING ATOMIC BOMB, WHY IT HAS NOT DONE.
GLORY OF ALLAH CAN NOT BE ADDED OR DELETED EVEN A MICRON BY SUCH CHILDISH, SATANIC QUESTIONS
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
————- Why noble people are not allowed to enter in Kaba?_______
NOBLEST PEOPLE CAN SAY SINCERELY AS “THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH” AND THEN THEY CAN ENTER KAABAA…WHAT IS WRONG FOR THEM TO ACCEPT KALIMA “LAA ILAAHA ILLAAH-MUHAMMADUR RASULULAAH” IF THEY ARE NOBLE
@Shaik Namaste Brother,
@Do you not know that Allah is capable of all things?” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 106
If Allah can make created things like soul (Aatma) eternal, than what problem making me Allah. & Which science you have read in which it is mention created thing can be eternal. Is Kuran book of unscientific/illogical theories? I think you just have been Madarsha student.
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——-Kuran theory of creating everything out of nothing is unscientific/illogical.——- _God created everything out of nothing_________Contradict statement/unscientific/illogicalAnd one more query—
Allah says:
“The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not.” [Surah Ghafir, verse 57]
“Allah created all things, and he is the agent, upon which, all things depend.” [Surah 39, verse 62]
“The originator of heavens and the earth! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only; ‘Be! And it is!” (Baqara :117)
ONLY SCIENCE HAS TO EXPLAIN HOW EVERY THING CAME. DO YOU KNOW HOW YOU WERE BEFORE YOUR BIRTH? HOW YOU CAME? WHAT IS THE MEANING OF YOUR ARGUMENTS EVEN IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOURSELF WHERE?
@Shaik Namaste Brother
_____________NOBLEST PEOPLE CAN SAY SINCERELY AS “THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH, MUHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH WHAT IS WRONG FOR THEM TO ACCEPT KALIMA “LAA ILAAHA ILLAAH-MUHAMMADUR RASULULAAH” IF THEY ARE NOBLE________
If I say there is no God except “AUM” & he is omnipotent can do all without anybody help. There is no one worthy including in his prayers. then What problem in entering in Kaba. My focus just on God .. God..God…. & I reciite his Kalama
ॐ भूर्भुवः स्वः तत् सवितुर्वरेण्यं । भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि । धियो यो नः प्रचोदयात् ॥
“Aum Bhoor Bhuwa Sawah tát savitúr váreṇyaṃ bhárgo devásya dhīmahi dhíyo yó naḥ pracodáyāt” For meaning go through the link
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14101
@ Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
——-Kuran theory of creating everything out of nothing is unscientific/illogical.——- _God created everything out of nothing_________Contradict statement/unscientific/illogicalAnd one more query—
Allah says:
“The creation of the Heavens and the Earth is indeed greater then the creation of mankind; yet, most of mankind know not.” [Surah Ghafir, verse 57]
“Allah created all things, and he is the agent, upon which, all things depend.” [Surah 39, verse 62]
“The originator of heavens and the earth! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only; ‘Be! And it is!” (Baqara :117)
ONLY SCIENCE HAS TO EXPLAIN HOW EVERY THING CAME. DO YOU KNOW HOW YOU WERE BEFORE YOUR BIRTH? HOW YOU CAME? WHAT IS THE MEANING OF YOUR ARGUMENTS EVEN IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOURSELF WHERE before your birth?
How much you know science bluffs and all your logics are not valid !
Logics will not help you to know the truths of life. Logic may help you to connect some thoughts…can you tell me why an object falls? why it can not go up? why top is bottom , bottom is not top?
I can show my sympathy on you as you beleive logic for a solution
@Truth Seeker,
This is what we say you translate you veda verses quoted into arabic…you tell me now who is your God in arabic language..then you will coincide with Islam…Then you need to kick ass of the people who preach idol worshipping, are you agree with me?
@Shaik Namaste Brother
If Allah is eternal & Perfect, why does his creation is not eternal ? He had been sited on his throne comfortably till billion of years & he never gets the idea of universe creation. & Where was Allah sited before throne creation?
@Shaik Namaste Brother
__________Then you need to kick ass of the people who preach idol worshipping, are you agree with me_________
This is the basic difference between Veda & Kuran. Veda never prescribe to harm anybody who are not doing harm of any person in society . If there is any superstitions/rituals have taken place in society it need to be eradicated through the spreading of Veda knowledge, not doing violence like killing of polytheist or idolater, looting their property, making sax salves their women. Such kind of acts are immoral & against Veda but Kuran preaches such acts.
@VIK,
This article only expose you little knowldge or ignorance of islam, you may have to learn more from muslims
excellant
Masterpiece.
Satyameva Jayathe, except the truth nothing else is their in this article.
funny article…………indeed………..will provide you a rebuttal soon…….after getting free from my job…….. for now you can read articles exposing hinduism…………… http://www.truthofhinduism.com
funny ? yeah.
but does it sounds funnier that your arab muslim master stole a shiva temple from pagans? that kaaba still holds the shivlingam ? that this is the reason kaaba is shrouded in the black cloth ?
that they require 4 witnesses from a woman to prove the rape and non production results in the canning /stoning of woman.
@3C:
Don’t talk as though you have seen the things with your naked eye…first analyze and tell…
Have you seen the stone atleast once…??? first see that and confirm if its a lingam or not…then talk about that…
@3C,
Pl say “There is no God Except Allah, Muhammad is the messanger of Allah” sincerely in your heart then visit kaaba go & see what is inside…it is only a building with four walls and top roof..any symbols, statues of any kind will be destroyed if enters kabaa
@shaikh
Why is the part “ Muhammad is the messanger of Allah” required? Are ahmediyas who recite the same thing muslims? Or is the final prophethood of muhammad also required to be stated in kalma?
please modify the statment as
“There is no God Except Allah, Muhammad is the messanger of Allah, Muhammad is the last messenger of allah, all muhammads wivies, right hand posessions are mothers of muslims”
@adolf,
Ahmediyya’s are corrupted tricky agents of US ., europe
@shaikh,
>>Ahmediyya’s are corrupted tricky agents of US ., europe
They believe in the same kalma as you believe, but still they are targeted.
Labeling some one as kafir or a person fit to be killed is not new to islam, read how mansoor al hallaj is killed, just because he uttere the words that he is the truth.
@adolf,
Ahmedia’s differ in many issues of aqidas on prophethood, status of Jesus, and their likeness towards british which exposed them through their books and speeches. They did not produce proper evidence through quran or sunnah. So almost most of the mulims , islamic scholars consider them they belong to different religion. But they are in very good positions in Pakistan well supported by british. Why they try to call them as muslims when they can not understand key aqidas of islam
So, you mean to say having differences is good enough a reason to kill anybody which is actually what the quran preaches.
@ WSP
Stupid…you dont know…how to behave…!!!
Insisting on other religions is what Islam taught you…???
Don’t bring a bad name to your own religion…!!! first follow your religion and make comment on others…!!!
Arya,
Great article and excellent justifications.
Hai Satyagni, want to share life of a hindu girl after marrying a muslim, i hope it serves our purpose:-
I am a Hindu now: A former Muslim’s life story
30/06/2010 13:27:18 Courtesy :http://www.interfaithshaadi.org/
I was born into a very staunch Muslim family in the US. Learning to read the Quran the moment I could read. I was under the misconception that if I did not do as Allah told me to do, I would be punished severely. I was also told that if I didn’t wear modest clothes I was being immoral. Right from a little girl I wore the head scarf. My friends would ask me why, and I would tell them “because God said so’.
Around the age of 14, I realized how much of life I was missing out on. How my father commanded that I do my prayers 5 times a day and never play any sports because they would only lead me to the devil. One night I was talking to my parents about college and my father said that I would never go to college because he had chosen a boy for me and I was about to get married to him as soon as I turned 18. I was shocked….my mother ran out of the room crying. I began to plead with my father to let me go to college. But he said no. When I asked him why, he told me that Muslim women are not supposed to be educated or go to work. They are supposed to be good wives, who never disagree with their husbands and be good honorable women. I couldn’t belive my ears. This man was still living in the dark-ages.
The next day after school I went to the mosque to talk with our Maulvi Sahab. When I told him about my father’s irrational behavior—he agreed with him. He told me that if all the Muslim men in our community thought like your father, we would be in a really good place right now.
I was stuck and didn’t know what to do. I kept thinking about it till late that night. At around 2am my mom came to check up on me and found me crying. That night I came to know what a sick religion Islam was. She told me that she had been a well educated (Doctor) Hindu woman who had fallen in love with my father in India. During their courtship my father had told her that he was very broad-minded and did not want her to convert when they got married. Against my grand-parent’s wishes she married him and did the Nikaah just so her mother-in-law would like her. Thats where her nightmare began. Her In-laws would not let her go out of the house. No one could come and visit her. She was confined in a home where everyone would spit on her for being a ‘Kafir’. They made her read the Quran and do Namaz. If she didn’t they would beat her. My father would come home and force himself on her. When she would ask him not to, he would tell her that it was written in the Quran, and she was nothing more than a slave to him. After about a year of their marriage, they left for the US. My mom was already pregnant with me.
When I was born he was not too happy with my Mom. He said that if he had married someone of his own faith he would have had a boy for sure. Giving him a girl was the way Allah was punishing him for marrying a Hindu.
When I heard all this I began to hate my father and Islam. I promised to get my mom out of this situation and also never ever end up like her. When I turned 18, along with the help of a lawyer, I managed to get my mom and dad divorced. My mom actually went back to school and has a flourishing practice now.
As for me, you might say that I reverted. I am a practising and loving Hindu now. I have changed my name (new name is not given with the fear of punishment of death for apostasy). I live a life full of love and adoration for a God who does not preach hate, who encourages me to think and gain knowledge, who shows me the way without fear and who loves everyone no matter who they are.
I got married to a Hindu guy and having one beautiful daughter.
Reading your post has brought tears to my eyes…
Just like your mom,
I too was dating a muslim man who blinded me with love. He had promised that he would never force me to convert or part ways from my family.
It wasn't until my graduation that he started to change into his true colors. He started to ask me to read the quran, stop wearing make-up and long, dangly-earrings (as it attracts attention); then he would tell me to cover my shoulders, (even though I never exposed my arms.)
Because of my unconditional love for him, I did whatever he asked me to do. Thanks to him, I was not ignorant about Islam anymore. Thanks to him for forcing the Quran down my throat, I was able to find out the truth about Islam and how they treat their women and Kaffirs.
Right after I had finished reading and analyzing the Quran and Hadiths, I called him and ended our relationship.Thanx to him and his patriarchal-Islamic mindset, I took the time to learn about my own faith, culture, and God. I am a very proud Sanatan Dharmi, and will never leave my faith even if a muslim puts his sword against my throat.
SISTER ANALYSE THE SANATAN DHARAM CAREFULLY. INSHA ALLAH YOU WILL FIND THE TRUTH OF ISLAM THERE IN THE VEDAS AND OTHER HINDU SCRIPTURES
all sentimental attacks created in this website..with plan of other illogical / ignorant queries
RASHMI ,,, good flick from a bollywood movie ,we used to see this when we were 8 yeras old in india .
@danny
And all the vulgar scenes of hollywood movies and western culture was probably inspired by the Quran and the deeds of your prophet.
The quran was written long before hollywood movies…;)
@Life says, You may also start writing similar to quran and make it succesful like quran if you are truthful!
dude don`t tell everybody ur pitiful story quote "my father never let me play any sports because they would only lead me to the devil" screw ur father dude cuz no religion is against sports.last time i checked there is no muslim country without a sports team so screw u .don`t blind these people
look if u wanna complain about islam sure do but don`t make up stories that have nothing to do with religion
Ali@ Even i was of your opinion until i saw this video from Dr Zakir Naik in youtube.
Just google Sania Mirza + Dr Zakir
Rashami!!!
Ever think for a second that your family was the one that was screwed up and not the religion! I am a Muslim born and raised here in the USA!! My parents don’t command me to wear the hijab or pray 5 times a day! It is my choice! I started wearing the Hijab a year ago… just b/c I wanted to experience it. And guess what I never took it off after I wore it! I had more respect for myself than I did before! My parents were shocked when I told them I wanted to wear it, even till this day my father tells me if I ever want to stop wearing it I can, but I tell him it’s a part of me and I love wearing it, I can’t imagine myself without it! My father prays 5 times a day and my siblings and I try to, but no one forces us to pray. I really wish I could make it a habit! My dad always tells us “pray if you want to, no one can force you to, it has to come from your heart”. I am 18 years old, and I graduated high school when I was 16. I went to college a semester after I graduated! My parents want us to get an education! Education is extremely imperative to them! My sister is going to law school, to become a lawyer, and my parents paid all of her college expenses and believe me college is not cheap! I am going to community college now, but transferring to a university to become a pharmacist, and my parents are totally encouraging us to, if it was not for them we would not be where we are today! Moreover, there are so many educated Muslim women in the world… did you forget about them??? Their parents never stopped them from pursuing an education! You and your family have a problem; most likely, it’s your culture that your dad is following, and not the religion! Do us all a favor, and do some research and read a little about the educated, intelligent, and beautiful Muslim women in Islam! Believe me you will be intrigued.
However, you probably do not care anymore, since you are happy with your hindu family!
By the way, nice well-thought out story!
The very fact that u were born and brought up in a modern, democratic country is what makes all the difference. I wish u were born in an islamic country like Yemen, Sudan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc., where the women folk are compulsorily made to put on the hijab failing which they have to face dire consequences. They are not allowed access to quality education, forget about working. So, u can rejoice at the fact that u did not take birth or live in an oppressing islamic society.
@SDC,
If I say in US, Canada, Europe, china, India girls are compulsorily made to roam half naked or naked, how you will answer.It is someones choice. Pl agree
Now, this is wishful thinking at best. Nowhere in the world does that happen, and if it does, it is a gross violation one’s basic rights. Nothing can be shoved down the throats of people. Even in case of nudity, there are stringent laws in place to check public nudity, though in some countries, the laws are bit relaxed, agreed, but still you seem to be digressing from the point that I raised. Polygamy for men and stoning for women, how do you explain that, and you would maintain that islam does not discriminate.
@SDC,
I explained everything, while you support half nakedness or full nakedness, you have aversion to covering of indecency or display of sexuality in public. Somewhere we have to draw a line to understand where is the truth…Why you do not make males to dance with underwear and waist displayed and enjoy..Why do you allow the same? also keep nodding your head for this. you are in discrimination in your thoughts. No males display their waist to attract another woman. Stoning is equal for man and woman if they are engaged in adultery (that too if they both are married to someother as well as they dare to do this act in public). Islam do not have any problem if some one sticks to one wife. It is only recommended. Polygamy is the rule of exception to avoid adultery, or some other practical situations of life. When you will face such situations you will also opt for Polygamy
@shaikh
If man wants to sex with other woman he can practice polygamy & can keep four woman But what about woman if she wants to enjoy with other man also, why there are not equal rights for both. That is why monogamy recommended in Veda for both Husband & wife. One should control his sense & should look towards the other woman as a mother’s feeling. If I expect faithfulness from my wife, first, I should have been faithful towards her. But In Islam there no equality. That is why there is much focus on Brahmcharya in Vedic religion.
And did you not just say that polygamy is practices only to ensure that males do not commit adultery and is it also not that adulterous women are stoned to death. Now, the questions arises why will the men commit adultery when they can take recourse to having multiple wives and also availing sex slaves for themselves, why not provide something for the poor womenfolk too. While are you going around in circles on this.
You can do well to cut out the histrionics and give logical answers.
@Nadia
Sister do you know that you are half intelligent than man and as impure as dog, ass, and pig as per Allah and Muhammad?
Well said Nadia , all this persuations and falsehood against ISLAM made me to study ISLAM from its roots which is the QURAN AND ITS HADEES , its the purest form of religion and now the problem is that 2 great religions on this planet ie ISLAM AND CHRISTIANS are over debating on the subject ,but in the end of the day ,these are the same religions except for some misunderstanding ,with even the jews ,,they are the brotherhood fighting aginst each other ,,it leaves the less valued or less sacred stories of HINDUS who are very very far from religion and the truth . They are baffled and know kn ow what to do ,,this is creating a hysteria among the HINDUS as to what to be done ,unfortunately they are conspiring well in the INDIAN corrupt politica l system to defame ISLAM ,,but its always been happening from the time of the prophet (peace @ blessing be upon him ) so its not a big deal .
Can you imagine half a meter of cloth ( veil ) is shaterring the european unoin constitution which is based on freedom . You can walk naked and make it out in the streets like dogs and pigs but you cannot dress up modest ,,this is the new world order my friend ,,,but the more you compree ,,the more it emerges ,,This is ISLAM ,,THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION .
@danny panther
there are some things in islam that we appreciate, for example not posing women on posters as commodities or objects and asking women to dress up fully. But islam takes all this further, by completely covering up the woman that can give her vitamin D deficiency. The dress should be reasonable, not like a ninja where u only see two eyes of a woman. Although I respect the reason why islam wants to cover up the women but the problem is that they take it too far.
As far as religions go, islam is basically an adaptation of christianity which in turn was an adaptation of judaism. The proof for this is that they believe in all the previous messengers or sons, the only difference is that they made their own holy books and attached their prophet or saviour as the last and declared all earlier ones were wrong as if these misunderstandings all become computer viruses and Allah or God sends down updated versions of anti virus softwares to solve the problem.
Hinduism, on the other hand, is completely different from the abrahamic religions. Unlike abrahamic religions, they dont believe in heaven hell or one life only.
Tell me one thing, if hinduism is false, then why is it reffered to as the most scientific religion??? Why did supreme scientists like Einstein Dalton and Newton praised hinduism? Hinduism originated from Vedas so this proves Vedas are the only applicable scriptures to life today.
And the islamic order is u can stone to death a women when accused of immodesty, and she has to produce 2 male witnesses to prove her innocence, u will marry four times and can divorce them at will (now I understand ur interest in islam, unlimited sex in the garb of being modest because islamic promiscuity allows u such freedom), and of course, not to forget the 72 houries in heaven. Mouth watering concepts aren’t they? The West proclaims freedom for both the sexes and does not differentiate between the sexes. I think that is what irks you. Can understand such male chauvinism.
@dannypanther,
The quran and hadees do have a devastating impact on a person faculties of reason and logic.and morality sure goes for a toss.
let’s see what are you end up saying
1. You say that there are minor difference between islam and judaism …
Is it? …so much so that if a poor afraid jew hides behind a stone on account of that MINOR difference , your prophet in the hadees reminds you that “THE STONE WOULD SAY..O MUSLIM! THERE”S A JEW HIDING BEHIND ME ! KILL HIM!”
2.You say the hindus are misguided and irritated…..For you a guided lot is the one that true barbarously decimated the byzantine and persian civilization.
Rather than the Hindus , its the Islamic ghazis who were irritated at the fact that they could not destroy the indian civilization or it’s religions…those 80 million non-muslims have not died at the hands of Islamic zombies out of irritation …but for a firm resolve that IT IS BETTER TO DIE THAN TO ADOPT A DEVILS RELIGION AND FORSAKE HUMANITY.
3.Ya ..the world has changed for the worse..isn’t it ? ..half a meter of cloth is so good that from tomorrow onwards DANNYPANTHER is going hide his face inside such a cloth to show how beautiful it is to live WITHOUT A FACE…that’s how 21st century pilots,newsreaders must look like! ..isn’t it danny boy?
4.And isn’t it is sad that the times of the prophet have passed?…Now we have secular nations who don;t allow poor ghazis to behead anybody who speaks against or criticizes the prophet or Islam.. Why, the prophet himself peacefully beheaded so many poets who used to criticize his doctrine that made captive women and war booty HALAAL…WAKE UP!
5.The Hindus are wretched lot..they believe all paths lead to God and they never attacked any other nation in the name of religion ..what match they could be to the glorious peaceful GHAZIS who wiped off 80 million non-muslims from the face of this subcontinent just because they were kuffars.
tell you what danny, people like you MUST remain in Islam ..you represent everything that is against humanity
islam the misunderstood religion …indeed!
..and this site is removing all the misunderstandings
say thank you
Regards
The “IDOL” you worship, can’t punish anyone for doing bad because for goodness sakes he is a IDOL! How can he possibly do anything to punish or reward you? I really wonder how God can preach hate?
“who encourages me to think and gain knowledge, who shows me the way without fear and who loves everyone no matter who they are.”
-GLAD THAT’S WORKING OUT FOR YA!!! :))))))
HAHAHAH
And the kaaba that you bow to also cannot do the same, so what is point that u are trying to make? And how can God preach hate? That u ask ur Allah and mohammed if u can.
@SDC.your words are as cheap as your brain.we dont bow for kaaba but we bow in that direction to symbolise unity of islam. If someone has a problem in his family why dont they solve there own problems and stop blaming religion(islam cant be a scapegoat to your problems) Am a guy who is a practising muslim and i have taken all my sisters to school and one is in university. if once family culture prohibits you from doing what the world is doing then that is personal problem and generalising issues on islam is not good. Islam teaches us that paradise lies under the feet of our mothers, meaning that we wont go to paradise if we dont respect and obey our mothers(who is a woman) lets try and have broad mind.
I can give u a simple logic. Like hindus bow down or worship with different idols in front of them & when they worship, they have in their mind the image of god they worship, like if you worship Rama you will cunj up a mental picture of Rama or bcoz Arun govil acted in Ramayana you will have his picture in ur mind (many had started to worship him and the one acted as sita) in the real life too. I heard there are temples of many film actors/actress also who are worshiped in hindus. This is called shirk. No muslim ever imagine while he/she is praying, that he/she is bowing before or worshiping any idols including Kaaba. We would never have Kaaba in our mind or imaginations while performing salah. We always imagine like we stand before Allah subhana wa tala or if we cannot imagine him bcoz he has no image, we at least imagine that Allah is watching us praying. This is not shirk, we worship only one God that is Allah. U dont understand that bcoz you don’t perform namaaz but u only claim falsely that we bow down to kaaba and we are the idolators, just to put the blame on us for what mistakes you do. If we were to bow down to kaaba, we would have a model of kaaba in every masjid we pray and at homes where our women folks pray or at least we should keep pictures in front of us but this is not the case. Go see any masjid, you will not find even a picture of Kaaba in any masjid. Now have some sense to understand this and do not simply and blindly accuse for what we don’t even imagine.
@UNPOPULAR
Dont you do shirk while worshipping graves? Dont you do Shirk while remembering Muhammad along with Allah during your prayers five times a day? Dont you do Shirk when you say that a person needs to believe in Muhammad in addition to Allah in order to get heaven?
I have seen pictures of Kaaba in most of the Muslim shops, hotels, and houses. What do you say about that?
I invite you to the Vedic Dharm in which you dont need to believe in any mediator or idols. Believing in One Eeshvar will be enough!
@UNPOPULAR
ponder over these, once again
❶ two wrongs don’t make a right, so the shortcoming of another religion does NOT help in proving yours right.
❷Islam cannot exist on the basis of Allah alone.No one can become a muslim unless Muhammad is included in the package.If Allah is everything what has Muhammad the man got to do with Unique and SINGLE entity?
❸Poets write couplets against Allah and are thankfully safe and sound..but the moment someone writes a poetry against muhammad(right from the times when he was alive) is Killed without ado.This shows that the entity dearer to most muslims is a man (Muhammad) than Allah.
❹Do you know that this unity in direction of prayers that you are boasting about CHANGED during the lifetime of the prophet? Earlier Muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem!!! ..so much so about the unity of direction.
❺You missed the argument of Satyagni.A hindu drowns his idols in the river..why don’t you stand on the kaaba stone or drown it in some well there.let’s see how the arab royalty treats you
❻Just the way you would not like somebody to tear your quran..the hindu would not like his idol to be desecrated..it’s as simple as that.worship and veneration are two different things
hope you got some answers
@Ali
rather than blaming @SDC, i guess you have an immediate job at hand.
and that is to register your anger against the Mullahs of Dar-ul-uloom who recently passed a fatwa against working women .
come on bro .you know the truth
the truth is that you live in a democracy and that’s why your secular values have ensured the education of your sisters..If it were for the quran and hadees you’d have belived like the prophet that women are deficient of intelligence
QUOTE:
The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. UNQUOTE
source: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301
look at any islamic nation ..they veil the women, prohibit them from working, and beat them ..and as a punishment stone them to death even today..all by the blessings of Allah
Well, Mr. Ali I was referring to the general practices of islamic countries who supposedly follow the sharia or the islamic way of life. And I was commenting on Ms. Nadia’s assertion that she was not forced to wear the hijab, and I pointed out to her that in islamic countries she would be forced to wear the hijab whether she liked it or not. Try and take things in the proper context. BTW, I am indeed glad to know that at least u have let ur sisters study.
Pl say “There is no God Except Allah, Muhammad is the messanger of Allah” sincerely and visit Kaaba, it is only a building with four walls and top roof..symbol as geographical center of islam
similar stories must be available Hindu girls becoming muslims? this is nothing to do with truth of Quran or sunnah of Nabi..It is only some one’s choice. This is irrelvant as saying a brahmin eat briyani a muslim eats vegetarian kind of stories….Marrying Hindu boy does not claim Hindu God’s conceppts are genuine.
Bravo Rashmi. Welcome to Net age from Stone age.
@two unknown sisters
I pray Eeshvar that all the muslim women and others, who have been trapped in the evil clutches of Islam be freed from this inhumane cult. I admire your courage sisters!
Hope, your brave life will act as light house for other sisters too.
Mr Satyagni , people like you have made ISLAM more powerful cos when people come to know the thruth and how you have distracted the people from waht Dr zakir is and waht ur commenting on him ,,leaves a very bad impression about you whole blog as well as it get more interest to ISLAM ,,thanks very much for your lies which made me look and study more about this religion ISLAM .
Mr Danny Panther:
It pleases me to tell you that no one here is under the illusion that you are not a moslem to begin with. You make it sound as thought you’re a non-moslem who came across this article and is now very much interested in islam after reading mr Satyagni’s ‘lies’.
lol..you are joking rite?
Seriously, why are you angry with mr Satyagni? He is merely using his freedom of speech to refute the preposterous claims made by Dr zakir naik. Please bear in mind that it’s a big deal that Dr.Zakir Naik is allowed to preach his words in India. If indeed your religion is so great as you obviously think it is, give me one simple answer as to why non-moslems are not allowed to preach our religions to moslems, and why apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. WHY?
As for the two wonderful ladies above who escaped the cluthes of misery, i admire your courage. May God bless you and give you peaceful lives.
I hope more people open their eyes and realise the truth before it’s too late.
look man i like ur attitude but we need to make certain adjustments
1.there is no such thing as non muslims can`t preach to muslims chances are u ran in to some conservative insecure muslims.it`s only natural for a preacher to not let anyone be converted to some other religion either then his own.look i totally get ur point and i too don`t like that attitude in a preacher,u gotta understand this isn`t a religious thing it is the preachers fault not the other way around.
2.about autopsy well as u do know muslims tend to be more conservative with the hijab and more protective of the women this also varies around the world that is why they are hesitant on the AUTOPSY issue.THERE IS NO DEATH PUNISHMENT for autopsy as muslims by the tousands allow this procedure when absolutely required.
look as u know islam is the worlds 2nd biggest religion in addition of being only 1400+years old as apposed to Christianity ,Judaism,Hinduism etc.ISLAM accepts THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF JESUS ,MOSES AND ABRAHAM just the problem is that they say that their scriptures have been altered as bible keeps changing and was not originally in english,but quran was revealed in ARABIC which is still understood in great numbers.look man i am totally with u that muslims are too conservatives and with the recent terrorist probe people tend to be a bit too harsh.
LOL…. Islam , OMG IZLAm …. Any random guy who went to a cave got scared of his own shadow , Called it as a Message of God And became a Prophet … and LOL people Be-lived HIM… It is the story of ISLAM!
Pl ready quran what he brought from Cave Hira and its messages. You are something funny like saying an apple fallen on Newton’s head and told gravity theory. Pl read his works on gravity..Nothing you will gain out of your funny nature.
@shaik
Brother Kuran says do the sex with mother & sister as Aadam & Eve children had sex with each other. Do you follow the path of Kuran by sex with your mother & sister.
Brother Kuran is against scientific theory that Allah created everything out of nothing.
@Truth Seeker
I understood by discussing with you that you are not a Truth seeker, you are a confuser of an issue going superficiously about an issue, ignorant of an subject. If you are an truth seeker try to bring more claity for all the parties concerned with genuine evidence of the subject. You will get truth definitely in this process. You think by criticising, using irrelevant logics against someone you may reach the truth..
Pl give more clear picture of your subject of discussion or criticism with aunthetic evidence which supports your thoughts (pl never imagine yourself as it shows your mind)…..also how you derive your imagination based on the evidence support you have….
Shafi(one of the sect of Islam) allows a Muslim man to marry his biological daughter and have sex with her if the daughter has been born illegitimate. explore it.
@shaikh Namaste my dear Brother
Brother time has not passed you can do Tauba even now for your mis-conception regarding Allah forces for doing incest to humans. Allah is most merciful, most intelligent, most blessing. He will forgive your sins if you do tauba. Brother Allah wrote in his original Quran – the Vedas – that He created many people at inception of society. All scholars agree on this. Israr Ahmad admitted this few years ago that nowhere in Quran is mentioned that 1 male and 1 female were born initially. Instead lots of people were born. Prophet Rahman (PBUH) details this in his Noor-e-Haq Chapter 8. And Allah is most pure and never commits a sin! Those who abuse Allah of doing such great sin as incest and indeed guided by Satan. They should do Tauba or Allah shall put them in Hell! And for those who do Tauba, Allah is most blessing and loving! Ameen! ”
Do the Tauba & Secure Heaven immediately for youself.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/tauba/#
Ha, if funny how you guy are not afraids to say these tings in the satefy of your home. Fabrication and lies in this article. Idiots.
A person named Mo ate the Ham and got Mad. thats MoHamMad and his murderous cult islam for you.
End of story.
Why Md has a lot of followers? You can not throw them out of his followership due to novice or barbaric aomments. It only displays your mind. Md will gain more followers only because of your funny actions
@shaik Namaste Brother
Why All MD follower & their country are follower of Kaffir USA. I think Allah is with USA & Allah has changed his mind again to protect the momin that why Kaffir USA is killing openly Jehadi of Islam like Osama who have dreamt of making USA a country of Momin. I think momin are not doing Namaj five times that why Allah is angry on them & send the shaiten behind them, so they are fighting with each other and killing their fellow brother Shiya, Ahamdiya etc.
http://richleebruce.com/b/islam.html
Real data from the world bank to disprove this guys article, written by a non-muslim. I have hindu friends, thank god there not dicks like you.
Pure envious article….. in today's world, its has become very clear that it is very easy to become famous, and to do that you only need to write an article against ISLAM!
No people of God, ISLAM is the God's only acceptable religion in the face of earth. It is a faith of all God's prophets, starting from Adam (peace be upon him) to Muhammad (peace be upon him).
ISLAM flourishes in countries where there is a freedom and democracy, which is why it is proven to be the fastest-growing religion in USA, Europe and the World. Elhamdulilah. Allah promised he will take care about it.
Cheers
"ISLAM flourishes in countries where there is a freedom and democracy". This statement of yours says it all my dear friend. Whereas other religions cannot flourish or prosper in islamic countries bcoz islamic countries and societies are intolerant of other faiths and oppress them to the point of extinction. The plight of minorities in neighbouring Pakistan and Bangladesh says the whole story. So, what are you cheering about! The intolerant nature of your faith! Kudos to you and your intolerant brethren!
in today’s world, its has become very clear that it is very easy to become famous, and to do that you only need to write an article against ISLAM!
ABSOLUTELY. Now I will also write an entire treatise against islam and become WORLD FAMOUS.
FYI zakir naik is not a prophet
RIGHT!!!! Zakir naik is not a prophet. I am. Latest 21st century version.
@hm
😀
Don’t be a deaf, dump & blind. Don’t let me describe you as an animal, infact even beyond. Don’t be silly. Don’t base your rebuttal on Zakir & other Muslim personalities. The Holy Qoran is our source of divine information & quotations, So if you can’t refer to it you are only stumbling in the dark. Although I don’t ‘ve time to reply all your illogical arguments, I can only advise that you seek to know more about Islam. I’m sure you are programmed & influenced. Stop your ignorance & preconditiong. Islam is the way.
Its Allah who has programmed us so and stored everything in his Lohe Mehfooz. We are nowhere to blame !
lol there is just th future written in lohe mehfooz u says only what your swamiji has told u and what about the fate in hinduism where the ishwar has already destined the man’s fate. and your brahmin can do everything like he has got a golden ticket from god to do everything its because your scriptures were written by thives not some great people.
these people cannot refute anything and just see how they are exposed in truthofhinduism.com
@agnostic pre
This site is for Muslim friends and not for the Qadiyanis who worship Ghulam Ahmad. Better stay away from this discussion of Islam. And your Qadiyani Massiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has been exposed by none other than Muslims! Go and first save your Qadiyani brothers who are being blown in the Islamic countries!
lol you hindu qadiyani just shut up man, all the muslims here have defeated you and u have deleted their comments why dont you debate team of truthofhinduism.com are you scared to loose, why didn’t you people post mr. tariq’s full video is it because he has answered all of mp arya’s question that was the luck day of mp arya coz mr. tariq just defended islam he did not exposed hinduism otherwise that would have been caused riots and mp arya would have just run away
you people hardly makes 3 millions, mp arya can only fool his illiterate audience like you are fooling your semi illiterate viewers like indian agnostic and proud to be son of all kafirs
@yeah me
First get a recommendation letter from Darul uloom Deoband that you, a Qadiyani, can represent Islam in the discussions. BTW, do you know, what do Muslims say about you and your prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani?
And forget about Indian Agnostic and Proud to be a Kafir. Your second last prophet (I know your final prophet is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani) Muhammad was an illiterate and that is why he was called as “Ummi”, and interestingly, Muslims call themselves as Ummat which means followers of an illiterate! And truly you always prove this quality of your Master through your idiotic arguments!
Do you now that I convinced your second last prophet Muhammad about truness of Vedas in my previous birth and he converted to Vedic Dharm? But his Sahaba deleted all those Ahadith which were the proof of his conversion!
hey TOH moderator @agnostic pretender…
Please post my message too on your site ..here:
Dear Indian Muslims (and for that matter any muslim whose mother tongue is not Arabic)
Please reclaim your faculties of reason and logic and think carefully about the following verses of the Quran. I am sure by the end of this exercise, you’d have more than one reason to leave this cult (all religions are cults by the way)
1⟴) Surah Ibrahim (Quran 14:4)
——————————————–
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ بِلِسَانِ قَوْمِهِ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَهُمْ فَيُضِلُّ اللّهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ
“We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom”
Just read the above verse. It undoubtedly tells us :
a. Muhammad was a messenger only to the arabs (the language of quran is arabic)
b. Allah has no sense of pure justice.He is like a naughty child who whimsically leads some people in his direction while he misleads other people to go astray.
now ask yourselves,
i) If your mother tongue is not arabic, is muhammad your messenger?
ii) would you believe in a god who himself misguides his own creation? doesn’t he sound more like satan??
2⟴) Listen to this tall claim of the Quran
———————————————–
إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ
“Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).”
Many muslims don’t even know that the earliest versions of quran available with us today are in the kuftic script and the one available in the the arabic maail script dates back to late 8th century ..this is even long after uthmaan died!!!!
Now tell me dear muslims ..
1. what happened to the tall claim of Allah that he would preserve his words? the only extant version of the quran is 300 years after the death of muhammad and that too the one compiled by uthman. and isn’t Allah ashamed to know that in babylonia and egypt three thosand years old text has been excavated in good condition.
what He could not take care of for 300 years , the egyptians took care of for three thousand years!!! ..all powerful Allah??
2. Many people make tall claims about science in the quran.Forget about futuristic knowledge, allah didn’t know anything about 7th century science.The Chinese had invented paper in 150 ad and where did Allah arrange to write his holy words ..on CAMEL BONES !!! ..miracle of quran ? science in Quran ? give me a break!!!
Dear brothers, open your eyes.It’s disheartening that i have to explain all this to you.You belong to India..the cradle of civilization..the place where language took birth and pursuit of spiritual excellence evolved.And you are clinging on to this foreign cult that doesn’t even stand it’s own test.
Do whatever ..but use your brains ..please !
first of all do you have any proof that quran is corrupted, LOL MINDLESS NUT secondly do you have anything yours to argue rather than copy pasting and coming with silly arguments. yeah man its good if you copy from christians coz even amatuer christians are far better than your scholars. if you wanna debate give me your email address coz i dont want my comments to be deleted when i defeat you I HAVE SEEN YOUR PEOPLE’S SO CALLED ATTACK AND AS WELL AS SO CALLED REFUTE
@yeah me
seems like i have shaken your foundation too hard..anyways
❶The very fact that not a single copy of quran can be dated back to Muhammad and that the quran was compiled long after his death itself is a proof that quran was corrupted.
❷I am not quoting from christian sources..i am quoting from your very own islamic sites and scriptures – the holy quran and the hadeet..what more do you need.What’s more i even provide you with exact arabic verses so that there’s no doubt about it’s authenticity
❸ The compilation of the quran is documented in the Sahih Hadits..where it’s clearly evident that many verses were canceled.One verses was modified by hadrat aisha
❹Muhammad was the only prophet who canceled his own revelations with time .It’s called nasikh-wa-mansukh in Islam
Now what’s left to debate about my friend? ..it’s just that you can’t digest these hard facts
Peace on All the World
Brother, your statements are illogical, funny and have no proof. Why you people are accepting that Islam is the empire of Faith.
Your people praise Islam very much and are embracing it fastly.
Revert to Islam in order to save yourself from Hell.
BTW Zakir is only a preacher and a good man.
Brother Shahid
❶One has to logically prove others arguments as illogical.Just stating that my argument is illogical is not enough.
❷If google is not ‘haraam’ in the place where you live ..you will find out yourself that the earliest incomplete manuscript of the quran available today is not earlier than 100 years after the death of prophet Muhammad.So you see Allah has been unsuccessful in protecting the quran as he promised.
❸Shahid bro , as far as i am concerned i would just ask you to apply your mind and seek the truth.Then if you find Islam to stand the test ..accept it.
Don’t blindly follow a book just because it says that you have to blindly follow it.It’s an insult to accept anything without verifying it through your brains.
God has given your brains to use ..not to ‘surrender’
Sarveshaam Shantir Bhavatu
May all be peaceful
Mr Sarveshaam..
Quran was protected caused it was memorized by the muslims.. Even if you burn all the manuscript, Then you gather 100 of Tahfeez.. They will read to you all verses exactly the same.. May god bless you with light of hopes..
Dear @Me,
❶ Common sense suggests that if 100 people memorize errant versions of a book, you would never arrive at ‘correct’ version.It will be a human endeavor to ‘decide’ which verses to choose and which ones to drop..and as a result your book will cease to remain a book of God!
❷ The very fact that the Sana mosque manuscript is very different from the Quran of today indicates that even in the early days of Islam, people were ‘memorizing’ the wrong versions of the Quran.Then how can you convince your mind that the version(s) of today are not corrupt? …it’s logically impossible to believe that
Regards
“EVERY DOUBT/CONFUSION HAS ITS SOLUTION/ANSWER, IF RIGHT PEOPLE COME TOGETHER” ……..ALWAYS think about this……………………………………..
dont be idiotic brother,
Yes everything is written in louhe mahfuz about u and whole world. dont be so confused, see brother u r guruvu’s/Proffessor’s are given half of the knowledge about islam and your religion whatever so ur following it ….dont be angry once u ask the questions of zakir bhai or ur owned doubts/queries to u r Gruruvu’s with the references of VEDAS……………………………………..
i am not telling you to measure them in knowledge just seek the truth what they speak. does it satisfy or give the answer to all the religions of the worlds…?
but they didn’t bcz they feared about u that u may also convert to islam. READ then UNDERSTAND check it out what they speak, is it there in vedas? or knowingly ignoring?
“EVERY DOUBT/CONFUSION HAS ITS SOLUTION/ANSWER, IF RIGHT PEOPLE COME TOGETHER
@Tango Bro…
Rather than trumpeting Islam’s copyright on the truth..why don’t you answer all the objections raised on this site.
if you find that the claims of Satyagni are false..your job becomes all the much easier!
just show them the correct Surah or Sahih Hadit accounts ..it’s as simple as that.
so get started bro !
Yes brother i can understand u r feelings about it.
But already i mentioned in my earlier comment “Every confusion/doubt has its solution when right people come together”. why r u trying to escape, to come across such people.
1). Why are u using this means of preaching by making such web-links.? don’t u have DARE TO CHALLENGE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT the TRUTH………………….?
BUT natural it only indicates that U Dont Want .bcz its not truth what u blaming ur self
2). What u did till now ……?means now u understood u r vedas after ZAKIR BHAI explanation….?
3). Even ur Truth need such a period to understand …………..?
4) Does ur religion need to explain about ISLAM first INSTEAD of ur’s………..?
5). Dont u have the TRUTH knowledge to explain instead of using ISLAMIC knowledge ……….?
see baby ……….i have one total 500 pages book, which contains thousands of questions even u cant imagine it so. ok leave it about that just think about these. ok Pray to EKESHWAR. and ask him to show the right path and i also pray to ekeshwar to show us the righteous path which leads to PARADISE.
@Tango bro
you say: ““Every confusion/doubt has its solution when right people come together”. why r u trying to escape, to come across such people.”
that sounds like a dumb question! ..aren’t we discussing here? ..where else do you want to come together? ..don’t you find this platform good enough to find solutions together?
❶you ask: “Why are u using this means of preaching by making such web-links.? don’t u have DARE TO CHALLENGE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT the TRUTH………………….?”
Reply:
Man! …do you know that your question is the answer itself!!!
Satyagni has done exactky what you are asking for !..by created a website it becomes EASIER to reach the whole world ..so what are you complaining about?
❷you ask:What u did till now ……?means now u understood u r vedas after ZAKIR BHAI explanation….?
Reply:
Zakir Bhai did a foolish thing by degrading the vedas and hinduism using the qaddiyyani literature of vidhyarthi.
But there are lot many zakirs corrupting the message the vedas..and Satyagni has done a great job in dispelling the doubts of the honest seeker.
❸yous ask :Even ur Truth need such a period to understand …………..?
reply:can you ask this question again..elaborate
(if you meant the time taken for this site to come up ..then compare this with the 23 years that allah took to teach his message to the prophet)
❹you ask :”Does ur religion need to explain about ISLAM first INSTEAD of ur’s………..?”
Reply:
As far as i understand Satyagni stands for humanity and peace. Islam is a clear and present danger to both ..hence the priority focus on Islam
❺you ask: Dont u have the TRUTH knowledge to explain instead of using ISLAMIC knowledge
Reply:
No body has the copyright on TRUTH ..it’s been a journey of every human soul since ages….
BUT if a religion kills or harms humanity claiming that only it has the Truth and all others are false …then entire humanity must stand up against such cults.
There’s no harm in believing in a stone or an invisible god ..ONLY IF that god does not demand you to hate,harm or kill others who don;t believe in your god
Islam’s god does exactly that..and hence i am happy that Satyagni has shared with us the reality of Islamic theology so that we shun all hardline hateful thoughts and come together as one human family
you are welcome too bro..it;’s fun to be a human than a puppet
FACT OF AGNIVEER
May peace and blessing of Allah be on all of u,
“Satyagni”, its management, commenter’s (many of them are belongs to Satyagni itself ), followers are thinking that they are deviating or cheating the muslims but natural its working in favour of muslims bcz themselves only explained and interpreted All the misconception about islam.
ALHAMDULILLAH due to this Satyagni and many more anti-islamic websites, who preaching about islam. where we cant reach in our total life they are reaching and explained in detail about islam in better way of explanation.
summa Alhamdulillah many of them opened vedas as well The Holy Quran understanding it and approached us. CONVERTING TO ISLAM DUE TO THIS AGNIVEER PROPAGANDA. Once again we thanks u to this effort. “U PLANNED, ALLAH HATH TOO PLANNED AND ALLAH IS THE BEST OF PLANNER”………….. see the result ………..everyone knows about your false data and stories, these are n’t effective.
Unfortunately few of them are deaf, dumb and blind. but they think all are deaf ,dumb and blind.
May Allah Show the Righteous path to whole Satyagni management.
with warm regards,
your’s lovely Tango
Dear @Tango
It’s said that it takes TWO to tango…but it was fun to read your tango-ing alone 😉
The people (if any), despite understanding the FACT from here that Islam and Humanity don’t go hand in hand ..are still joining you ..they have indeed done the right thing.
At least the creed of humans who respect humanity above violent irrational doctrines is getting purer 🙂
All the best to you
may you become the ONE of the 73 sects that is going to enjoy the rivers of wine, the houris and what not..mauja hi majua :))
@Tango bro..
one more thing…unfortunately you have naively quoted yet another verse of the quran that shows that Allah is not at all an all knowing and all powerful god!!
You have quoted Quote Quran Sura 3 (Aal E-Imran) Verse:54
وَمَكَرُواْ وَمَكَرَ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
“And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners”
❶ First of all , The actual word in arabic used of this quality of Allah is Khair Al-Makri’nu .Makr means a deceit,scheme or plot. But the translator has been kind to Allah by giving him the least offensive attribute ..planner ..instead of best of deceivers ..or ..best of schemers. But anyways this was for academic purpose only.BUT THE BIGGER DEBACLE IS IN POINT NUMBER 2 ..read carefully
❷ Isn’t Allah supposed be All-Knowing? …and does anybody who’s all-knowing NEED TO PLAN AT ALL !!!!! ???..This Allah seems no different than us poor mortals who have ‘plan’ for their bread and butter,education,safety and wins !
❸If this Allah needs to PLAN to defeat a group of Human Beings …Can he be called ALL-POWERFUL !!! ..NO!
I hope after reading this, more people will join you in praising this not so powerful , not so knowledgeable Gid of the book…what say?
Man ..i have made your day ..say thank you 😉
“HAVE the DARE to OPEN CHALLENGE”
Plz verify for what u stands for and what are u doing.
Even if u don’t know simple understanding of simply words how can u understand the holy words. bcz whatever u said thats only indicate the LACK of knowledge.
see brother ………The holy Book revealed onto prophet (PBUH) accord to that scenario like u people were there and also it s for whole time of world until the judgement day come and u will see. so every time like u people used do such things like u made this and in future also others may do such silly ignorant deeds so Allah says that dont be feel that we did a great job. for this allah ST settled a plan.
“TO CUT YOUR FEATHER”
at all the time of world many ignorant people came, u r also one of them but dont be cautious, fearful, frightened, meek, reticent, retiring,afraid and shy. finally u r stands for Stupidicy, ignorance. nothing other than that.
EVERY DOUBT/CONFUSION HAS ITS SOLUTION/ANSWER, IF RIGHT PEOPLE COME TOGETHER
@Tango,
I stand for HUMANITY , reason. logic, facts
i stand against RELIGION, VIOLENCE, INTOLERANCE
with the kind of doctrine you follow..we stand on opposite sides 🙁
Yes all the world have seen about your doctrine. what ever u did and still doing……..ok
tell me from where u find Humanity its not there in u r standards know brother
EVERY TIME U HAVE TO CHANGE U R STANDARDS/NORMS BCZ THESE ARE MAN MADE
OK
tell me brother ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what is the REASON behind BIG BANG?
what is the logic behind ur birth ?
do u know the facts of life ……..? after death u come to know for what u stands for untill then we wont taste the death we cant come to know the LOGIC,FACTS,REASON of u r life
Brother @Tango,
❰you say: Yes all the world have seen about your doctrine. what ever u did and still doing……..ok❱
Yes indeed…the whole world has seen the benefits of logic,reason and humanity.
with humanity in mind the professions of medicine and sciences and philosophy has done a great service to mankind. The internet on which you and I are able to communicate with each other is not created by Allah ..it has been created by humans….and it is for the sake humanity itself that i am asking you to use your mind openly and not submit your brains to ANY God that divides humanity
❰you say: tell me from where u find Humanity its not there in u r standards know brother❱
Humanity is not about cowardly tolerating intolerance and anti-humanity religions.
Humanity is about one simple principle principle : ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’
Islam, unfortunately…does NOT believe in this fundamental principle and hence it;s a direct threat to all humanity
❰you say :EVERY TIME U HAVE TO CHANGE U R STANDARDS/NORMS BCZ THESE ARE MAN MADE❱
First, understand one thing. EVEN YOUR GODS BOOKS CHANGE EVERY TIME>YOUR GOD WAS NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THE TORAH .. SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE MORE POWERFUL THAN ALLAH EASILY CORRUPTED IT…
ALLAH TRIED ONCE AGAIN WITH BRINGING A NEW EDITION, INJEEL…BUT AGAIN THE MORE POWERFUL HUMAN BEINGS CORRUPTED HIS BOOK ONCE AGAIN.
THEN ALLAH CHOSE AN ILLITERATE MAN TO WRITE HIS PERFECT BOOK..AND AGAIN HE COULD NOT SAVE HIS BOOK..HIS LAST EDITION QURAN, WHICH HE CLAIMED TO BE PERFECT WAS SO CONFUSING THAT 72 SECTS CAME OUT OF THAT ONE SINGLE BOOK..THE BOOK GOT CORRUPTED IN THE BEGINNING ITSELF AS NO COPY OF THE BOOK WAS SAVED IN THE LIFETIME OF HIS PROPHET.
Now that said, let’s talk about humanity and why it changes
If you look around any thing in this world ..it is changing …CHANGE IS THE ONLY CONSTANT in this world.
so it’s logical and rational to change with the changing world..for those who do not change with times are bound to perish..
Why do you think Islamic nations are backward ? ..it’s because of the fact that they REFUSE to change with changing times..they are stuck up in the desert customs of 7th century arabia.
❰you say: tell me brother ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what is the REASON behind BIG BANG?❱
I have a brilliant answer for this question..BUT first you have to tell me whether you believe that that BIG BANG happened?
because if your answer is going to be yes ..then the whole 6 days creation theory of the quran and injeel becomes wrong by default 🙂
❰you say:what is the logic behind ur birth ?❱
as per humanity, the LOGIC behind every birth is the continuity & growth of humanity.Every birth mine and yours is to ensure our group survival
If we look for a spiritual answer , there are many depending on the level of understanding:
1. IF one follows Islam ..the logic of his birth is illogical.He has been created like a useless doll of allah.Allaah loves those dolls who sing his praises and burns those dolls who dont sing his praises…in short , there is NO LOGIC behind my or youyr birth according to islamic theology.
2.If one goes by Eastern Religious thought..your birth itself is your own doing! ..an effort which continues for as many births till you merge with one supreme consciousness…now that sounds logical ..doesn’t it?
❰you say: do u know the facts of life ……..? after death u come to know for what u stands for untill then we wont taste the death we cant come to know the LOGIC,FACTS,REASON of u r life❱
i may not know all facts of life , BUT i do know one for sure that
LIFE IS ABOUT LIVING AND NOT ABOUT FEARING DEATH OR AFTER-DEATH SCENARIOS
a person is AS GOOD AS DEAD who spends his entire life in blindly believing in heaven and hell..who’s afraid of a cruel unjust god who punishes infinitely for finite mistakes ..who does not even understand the basic logic that IF there would be a god who created this universe, He would not bee foolish to concentrate so deeply on us humans alone which form not even a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of this universe!
WAKE UP!
Brother don’t mind on my talk.
our’s duty is to tell, instruct to the people about the truth after we dont have means i dont have the authority to give guidance, astaghfirullah but allah ‘s will to whom he wants to show the clear guidance.
WE pray to SUSTAINER to show us the way which u selected,
thanking you brother ,
yours lovely, little tango
lovely little Tango!
please keep sharing your thoughts ..it’s a GOOD thing to discuss…for it’s through dialogue that we reach towards truth.
Truth is never written on camel bones ..one has to search for the Truth ..and no body can claim copyright on the truth.
also i want you to think about this in your heart:
as you move closer to the Truth …would things start getting UNITED or would things start getting DIVIDED?
your brother
Indian Agnostic
@Indian Agnostic
hahaha..
How can u be pointing fingers on others when u do not any things abt ur own religion.
Guys like u are being fooled by ur own people BRAHMINS.
They ruled,killed,exploited pple by writing a hell lot of books.
Important thing is they are not aware of what is written in there holy books(gita,vedas etc)
Instead of creating anti islamic proganda website, spending a lot of money on degrading ISLAM.
You should know what ur religion asks u to do.
Clearly written in Gita,
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD,
DO NOT WORSHIP IDOL ITS A BIG SIN.
NOT ONLY THIS ITS CLAERLY WRITTEN IN ONE THERE HOLY BOOK DASHA AVATAR THAT LAST MESSENGER WILL COME AND HIS NAME WILL BE MUHAMMAD(SAW)
DO NOT WORSHIP ANIMALS (what hindus are doing..hahaha…dringing piss of cow)
how can u even point fingers on other.
YOU HAVE RAISED ONLY FEW QUERIES ABT ISLAM. AND DEFINATELY I CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR QUERIES.
BUT IF I START POINTING OUT PROBLEMS IN HINDUS… U WILL BE BLOWN AWAY LIKE ASH.
BROTHER MY HONEST ADVICE TO YOU IS INSTEAD OF WASTING YOUR ENERGY IN SPREADING HATRED TRY WORKING ON SUMTHING CONSTRUCTIVE.
U HINDUS HAVE LOST UR IDENTITY,UR CULTURE, LOOK AT UR WOMEN,THEY HAVE MERELY BECOME A TOY OF SEX IN THE HANDS OF SO CALLED LIBERAL MEN.
PUPPETS IN THE HANDS OF U.S AND U.K
ZAKIR NAIK IS MUCH MUCH BETER THAN UR SRI SRI RAVI SHANKAR..JUST GO THRU THE VIDEO OF ZAKIR NAIK AND UR HIGHEST PRIEST..
LOOK WHERE UR RELIGION STANDS. AND WHAT U R FOLLOWING.. !!!!
ISLAM IS THE BEST RELIGION ON THE FACE OF THIS PLANET.
@Yasir,
you prophet is mentioned in the bhavishya purana as a reincarnation of the demon Tripurasura.
The demon tells Raja Bhoj that he would create a “demoniac religion” ..
Since you insist so much on believing the hindu texts..i would not deny your request.
so what do have now? ..that it’s written in hindu texts that Muhammad would create a demoniac cult called Islam
Happy?…now do we an agreement?
Peace
@Yasir,
in case you are searching for the source (Bhavishya Purana , Pratisarga Parva, part 3 ) as often quoted by zakir bhai mbbs , here it is in it’s most pristine form (sanskrit , with relevant english words)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3724/bhavishyapuranmo0.gif
so when are you leaving the pishach dharma my bro?
@Yasir
1. Thanks for accepting that Islam believes in incarnation of God (Avtaar).
2. Who has lost identity? Are they Hindus or those Muslims who have accepted the rapists and looters (Arab invaders) as their masters and their religion as theirs and feel proud to praise the rapists of their own mothers and sisters?
WHICH IS MORE EVIL TO BURN A RELIGIOUS BOOK OR TO COMMAND THE BURNING AND SLAUGHTER OF THE FOLLOWERS OF OTHER RELIGIONS?
The prophet Muhammad is known for his hatred towards Christians and Jews. He called them apes and pigs and ordered their slaughter and in one case he commaded his Mujahideen fighters to burn them with fire.
While Osama bin Zayd, preparing his troops to invade the Christian lands, the prophet Muhammad commanded him saying, “attack them in the darkness of the dawn and fall on them killing and burn them with fire and invade them and return with the booty.” Those words of the prophet Muhammad could be found in the most authentic Islamic books which are known as the Mothers of the Islamic Books and approved by Al-Azhar Al-Sharif University. Just to mention few of them (Ibn Habib in al-Mahabir p 117, Ibn Kathir in al-Bedaiah wa al-Nihaiah p 139, 143, Ibn Said al-Nas in ‘Auion al-Atharig p 145, al-Suhili in Rawd Alanif p 24, Ibn Hisham p 245, and al-Tabari in Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Milook p 156).
Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.”
Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jiziyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low” [Another translation says] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.”
Bukhari: V5 hadith no. 727 “When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘that is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians.’”
The Slaughter of the Jewish tribe of Bani Qurizah,
Muhammad: Oh brothers of monkeys and pigs
The trembling Jews replied: Oh Abu al-Qasim, you have not been a bad man!! (Ibid; 392, quoting from Ibn Kathir, al-Bedayia p. 120).
The prophet called out to them: Oh brothers of monkeys. Does Allah disappointed you and send on you his curse?
The Qurizah understood the message and replied in fear: Oh Abi al-Qasim, you have not been an ignorant man (Ibid, quoting from al-Bihaqi, al-Tarikh p. 582).
The Jews of Qurizah continued to plead with Muhammad `and beg him to send to them one of their allies, a man by the name of Abi Libabah bin Abd al-Nuziar al-Awasi.
When Abi Libabah entered their garrison, the men rose, the women wept, and the children cried to him. When he saw them he had pity on them.
They said to him: oh Abi Libabah, do you think we should go out for the judgment of Muhammad?
He said, yes, and then he passed his finger across his neck, which means, the slaughter.
Then their leader, Ka’ab bin Asaad said to his people: Let us follow Muhammad and believe in him.
They replied: We will not leave the judgment of the Torah forever.
He said to them: Then let us kill our children and women and go out to Muhammad.
They said: Shall we kill these harmless children and women? What is the good of life after them? (Al-Qimni 2004: 393-394, quoting from al-Tabari p. 583).
Finally the men of Bani Qurizah decided to go out and meet Muhammad hoping that the other Medinian tribes would intercede with the Prophet and request him to send them with their women and children out of Yathrib as he did before with the other two Jewish tribes. As soon as the Jewish men emerged out of their garrison, the prophet ordered his men to bind them with ropes and march them in a long queue (Ibid: 394, quoting from al-Tabari, al-Tarikh p. 583). Then the prophet asked his men to dig many ditches inside the city (Ibid). After so many pleadings from the leaders of the Medinian tribes of al-Khaziriq and al-Awas, Muhammad agreed that Sa’ad bin Mu’aaz should decide the fate of the Jews (Ibid, quoting from al-Tabari p. 586).
Al-Tabari narrated that Sa’ad bin Mu’aaz was dying. During the siege of the city, an arrow hit his hand and caused a cut on one of his nerves. The prophet tried to heal him by heating a nail and burning the nerve. In doing that Muhammad thought the bleeding would stop. However, the burning nail worsened the cut and caused the nerve to swell. When the Prophet repeated the same treatment the nerve exploded (Ibid: 395). In his dying state Sa’ad was carried to the Prophet. When Muhammad saw him he ordered the Jews to stand to their Master. “When Sa’ad was put down by his carriers the prophet asked him to judge on them. He said, I judge on them that the men should be put to death, their wealth divided, and their women distributed as jawari among the Muslims. The prophet said to him, you have judged on them with the judgment of Allah that has been given to you from seven heavens” (Ibid: 395, quoting al-Tabari, al-Tarikh p. 586).
The horrifying slaughter was described by al-Tabari as follows:
They brought first the enemy of Allah, Huaya bin Akhatab, while his hands were bound to his neck by a rope. (Huaya was the father of Safiya bint Huaya whom the Prophet killed her husband and brother and took her as his wife). When Huaya saw the Messenger of Allah, he said to him, I swear by God, I have never blamed myself for your enmity. Then, Huaya turned to the people and said, oh people there is no fear from the judgment and the Book of God, it is an honor written by God to the children of Israel to die as martyrs. Then, he sat down and his neck was beheaded… Ali bin Talib and al-Zibiar continued to strike their necks… It is assumed that their blood reached the oilstones that are at the market (Ibid: 396, quoting from al-Tabari, al-Tarikh pp. 588-589).
The narrators of the sira differed in the number of the Jewish men who were killed on that fateful day. Some said six hundred, some seven hundred, some eight hundred, and some nine hundred (Ibid: 396). Al-Qimni states, “And we learn from our heritage a new thing happened in that slaughter. The slaughter was not restricted to men only, but included little boys too” (Ibid: 398 referring to al-Tabari p. 591). Then the victims were buried in those big holes or ditches that the Muslims dug.
To all muslims,
Abe shaane log, you morons have been brainwashed to believe some things, which you believe without logic or reasoning.
1)Koran is the only true word of god, all other so-called holy books, are interpolations. WRONG. There were 200 versions of the koran, one of the 4 rightly guided caliphs, ordered all books collected, took one, said this is true, and all others false, and BURNED all other versions. And you idiots think koran is the same world over? Check bhagwadgeeta, written in sanskrit,in antiquity, same version all over the world, now which is true word of god.
2)Secondly, if you dont give me the right to choose the polytheist idol worshipping religion, which you consider false, I reserve the right to retaliate against your violent murderous cult, whihc I consider as false, killing innocents, to follow one religion cannot be from god, has to be from satan.
3)You fight a jihad against non-muslims, how can you stop me from retaliating against you in a dharmayuddha?
Learn to respect ohters religions/culture and way of life. I do the same. Find faults, I do the same. Fight a jihad, I do the same . Logic?
@INDIAN AGNOSTIC
I CANT STOP MY SELF FROM LAUGHING..HAHAHA
IDIOT…FOOL…
CLAIM 10
YOU HAVE QUOTED ONLY FEW PPLE WHO HAVE RAISED VOICE AGAINST ISLAM.
IDIOT MAN GO AND SEE MILLIONS OF PPLE WHO HAVE CONVERTED TO ISLAM.
WHOLE OF INDIA WAS NON MUSLIM UNTIL MUSLIM CAME TO INDIA.
50 CRORE PPLE HAVE CONVERTED TO ISLAM.
AND THAT TOO WITHOUT FORCE..
I AM SAYING THIS BCOZ..U WILL RAISE NEXT QUESTION ABT FORCEFULL CONVERSION INTO ISLAM.
ITS HARAM IN ISLAM ANY FORCEFULL CONVERSION.
ITS A MYTH THAT FUNDAMENTALIST LIKE U ARE SPREADING.
U GUYS ARE SATAN IN HUMAN SHAPE..CANT GIVE ANYTHING GUD TO HUMAN BEING..
HAVE EXPERTISE IN SPREADING HATRED.
U R A MISANTHROPE.
I KNOW WHY U ARE SO MUCH SCARED OF MUSLIMS..
U SAY ZAKIR NAIK IS FAKE..WHT ABT UR DHONGI BABAS RAPIST..
CENTRES WHERE WOMEN ARE RAPED AND FILMED..
PLAYING WITH THE HEARTS OF MILLIONS OF PPLE.
I CAN QUOTE U HELL LOT OF BABAS WHO CANT GIVE ANYHTING GUD TO HUMAN BEING AND ONLY GIVE SUFFERING.
SEE WHAT MSG DOES ZAKIR NAIK GIVE..
SEE WHT UR RELIGION IS..
PATHETIC..
U GUYS HAVE EXPERITSE IN PROPAGANDA AND HIDING OF THE TRUTH..
ONE SUCH EXAMPLE IS BROADCASTING OF ALL THE RELIGIOUS CHANNELS ON DTH AND CABLE EXCEPT FOR ANY ISLAMIC CHANNELS.BECOSZ THEY KNOW THERE FALSE PROPAGANDA AGAINST HUMANTIY WILL FAIL AGAINST ISLAM.AND BY WATCHING ISLAMIC CHANNELS MORE ANT MORE PPLE WILL FOLLOW ISLAM.
ITS NOT MUSLIMS WHO ARE AFRAID OF TRUTH ITS PPLE LIKE U…MISANTHROPE..
DO U AND UR ANY OF THE SAINT HAVE THE AUDACITY OR ABILITY TO PUBLICLY CHALLENGE EVERYONE ON THIS EARTH.
Mr.Fool do everything to degrade islam but u will never succeed.
BUT AS YOU KNOW TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS..AND IT WILL DEFINATELY PREVAIL…
@Yasir,
Shouting at the top of your voice does not change the FACT that not only India but Islam has SPREAD BY THE SWORD of uncouth barbaric ghazis..
Read this article with authentic references on how Islam spread in India
http://kalkiagnostic.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/peaceful-islamic-and-mughal-invasion-of-india/
it’s a joke that you say quran prohibits conversion ..you seem to be a neo-convert
The whole idea of Islam is to convert humanity into violent zombies across the worlld..ever heard od dar-ul-Islam?
Bangladesh: The Demolition Of Ramana Kali Temple In March 1971
The birth of Bangladesh in 1971 was a unique phenomenon- it was the first nation state to emerge after waging a successful liberation war against a postcolonial state.
The nine-month-long liberation war in Bangladesh drew world attention because of the genocide committed by Pakistan, which resulted in the killings of approximately three million people, and raping of nearly a quarter million girls and women mostly over 70 percent were Hindus. Ten million Bengalis, of whom 80% were Hindus, reportedly took refuge in India to avoid the massacre of the Pakistan army, and thirty million people were displaced within the country were poor Muslims and Hindus.
In Bangladesh there are more than 30,000 temples and religious citadels in Bangladesh, and most of those were ransacked, demolished and desecrated.. Thousands of people-men, women and children-were killed and women raped by Pakistani army and their local stooges and collaborators of the so-called peace committees looted Hindu properties. When the burden of the killing became too much for the army, the Pakistanis enlisted and trained paramilitary units made up of non-Bengali Muslims and Bengali collaborators from right-wing religious parties.
Shri Shri Ramna Kali Temple: The 500 year old famed spiral temple was considered a symbol of Hinduism and its heritage in Bangladesh*
Massacre At Ramana Kali Bari: An American Eye Witness
On that night of 25-26 March on the orders of General Yahya and the Pakistani ruling clique the Pak forces armed with mortars, cannons and recoilless guns attacked the citizen in their sleep. In an attempt to drown in blood and silence in terror the upsurge of Bengali Nationalism, the military junta of Yahya Khan unleashed the most barbaric war of extermination against the entire people of Bangladesh. In the wake of this war the occupation Pakistani Army have been indulging in an unparalleled orgy of wanton loot, rape, murder and destruction. It is these gruesome happenings which have been characterized by U Thant the then Secretary General of the United Nations, as “one of the most tragic episodes in human history” and as “ a very terrible blot in the page of human history.”
“On the night on 27 March 1971 all the 250 Hindu men, women and children, who lived in and around the 700-year old Ramna Kali Bari in the heart of Dacca, were massacred. The priest of the Temple Swami Paramananda Giriji held the deity and prayed to Goddess Kali and he remained like that until incendiarism of the Pak army ‘cremated’ him alive along with all others.
An American eyewitness said: “There are no more Hindus in Ramna Kali Bari… I went to see it. Houses were still aflame and bodies were stacked at grotesque angles.” This American added, “The sight staggered foreigners allowed to see it — among them Mr. David Gordon, head of the World Bank in Pakistan”. About 100 corpses were put on display in the village on 29 March 1971.
Dr John E. Rohde of USAID noted that “on the 29th we stood at Ramna KaliBari, an ancient Hindu village of about 250 people in the center of Dacca Ramna Race Course, and witnessed the stacks of machine-gunned, burning remains of men, women and children butchered in the early morning hours of March 29,1971. I photographed the hours later.”
Mr. Gordon Allott’s speech in the Senate on July 14, 1971 mentioned that the ‘Ramna Kali Bari is an ancient small Hindu settlement situated in the middle of the Dacca racecourse. Even during the most violent Hindu-Muslim riots of partition, the village was able to avoid participation in communal strife …on March 29, a pile of bodies charred and machine-gunned, was on visible display in Kali Bari. The entire village was burned to the ground.’
There was something of a joker in Yahya Khan. Perhaps because of the World Bank officials’ disapproval of the destruction of the Ramna Kali Temple, the military President of Pakistan or his trusted Governor, General Tikka Khan, sanctioned Rs.20, 000 for rebuilding, the temple which had been not only razed to the ground but after the rolling of bulldozers over it not a single brick remained there.
The Ramna Kali Bari and the two villages are now an extension of the grassy racetrack of Dhaka.
When a World Bank official was shown a temple, a foolish stage show was arranged to convince him that the Hindus were freely pursuing their religious duties. A non-Bengali police constable was made to shave off his head leaving a tuft on it. He put on a dhoti and was made to sit and offer flowers as if he was doing the usual puja. When the Inspector- General of Police and others brought the World Bank official there, the fake Hindu priest seeing his boss, jumped up to stand to attention and gave a smart salute, said Mr. A B M Musa of Times, London and BBC correspondent at Dhaka.
A new report, that Pakistani invaders raided the Temple and the Ashram again around end of April or early May in 1971, was published in January 31, 1972 issue of ‘Daily Purbadesh’ on the destruction of Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram.
Loren Jenkins of Newsweek, U. S. A. was in Dhaka on March 25-26 and here is what he reported:
“ When the army decided to strike, it attacked without warning. Houses were machine-gunned at random. It was a blatant exercise in terror and vengeance, there can never be any excess for the sort of fire-power we saw and directed against unarmed civilians. There can be no excuse for the mescals burning of the shanty homes of some of the most impoverished people.” (April12, 1971)
Don Coggin, correspondent of Time, U. S. A. reporting from Dacca wrote:
“Before long, howitzer, tank, artillery and rocket blasts rocked half a dozen scattered sections of Dacca. Tracers arched over the darkened city. The staccato clatter of automatic weapons were punctuated with grenade explosions and tall columns of black smoke towered over the city. In the night came the occasional cry of Joi Bangla “(victory to Bengal) followed by a burst of machine gun fire” (Time, April5).
Saturday Review, edited by Norman Cousins, reported:
“A machine gun was installed on the roof of the terminal building at Sadarghat, the dock area of old Dacca. On March 26, all civilians within range were fired upon. After the massacre, the bodies were dragged into buses, some were burned. Some were dumped into the Buriganga river, adjacent to the terminal,” (Saturday Review, May 22).
Quoting reports from British citizens who were evacuated from Dacca few days after the start of the military operations, Guardian, United Kingdom, April 5 wrote
Another British eyewitness account described how troops in Dacca shot nine professors, their families, and 21 students in one of the University resident buildings, Similar attacks were alleged to have taken place in three halls.
At TantiBazar, troops surrounded the area and set fire to the bamboo and thatch houses in an area of a quarter of square mile where thousands lived. Women and children who attempted to flee were machine-gunned and bayoneted.
“Two small Hindu villages ( Ramna Kali Mandir) on the infield of the Dhaka horse-racing tract (near the central district) were surrounded by the army and every man, woman and child was massacred. Three days later, a heap of bodies three feet high, remained where they fell when they were machine-gunned.”
Not only in Dhaka, But also in Chittagong, Mymensingh, Sylhet, Jessore, Khulna, Dinajpur, Pabna and Kushtia as well as in scores of villages, Yahya Khan’s west Pakistani army committed such atrocities on hundreds and thousands of Bangali women. Even old women and literally kids of twelve years were not spared. All foreign Correspondents have testified to this horrible rape of Bangali womanhood. Robert Payne describes scenes of systematic mass slaughter around Dacca (Dhaka) that, while not explicitly “gendered” in his account, bear every hallmark of classic gender-selective roundups and gendercidal slaughters of non-combatant men:
In the dead region surrounding Dacca, the military authorities conducted experiments in mass extermination in places unlikely to be seen by journalists. At Hariharpara, a once thriving village on the banks of the Buriganga River near Dacca, they found the three elements necessary for killing people in large numbers: a prison in which to hold the victims, a place for executing the prisoners, and a method for disposing of the bodies. The prison was a large riverside warehouse, or go down, belonging to the Pakistan National Oil Company, the place of execution was the river edge, or the shallows near the shore, and the bodies were disposed of by the simple means of permitting them to float downstream. The killing took place night after night. Usually the prisoners were roped together and made to wade out into the river.
They were in batches of six or eight, and in the light of a powerful electric arc lamp, they were easy targets, black against the silvery water. The executioners stood on the pier, shooting down at the compact bunches of prisoners wading in the water. There were screams in the hot night air, and then silence. The prisoners fell on their sides and their bodies lapped against the shore. Then a new bunch of prisoners was brought out, and the process was repeated. In the morning the village boatmen hauled the bodies into midstream and the ropes binding the bodies were cut so that each body drifted separately downstream. (Payne, Massacre [Macmillan, 1973], p. 55.)
It may be mentioned here that Shri Shri Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram were built on 2.22 acre land in Dhaka. This land is situated on the southern side of the then Race Course Ground (Presently Surawardi Garden) and on the opposite side of Bangla Academy. The Kali Temple was built by “Dasanagthi” group of people who were followers of Sankaracharyay. Swami Gopal Giri of Badri Narayan Joshi Math came to Dhaka about 500 years ago and first founded a monastery at Ramna says the historian Muntashir Mamun. At that time the monastery was known as ” Kaatghar “. Subsequently, the main Temple was built here by Haricharan Giri.
This very Temple, built about 500 years ago, was destroyed on March 27, 1971 by the Pakistani invading army. Sreemath Swami Paramananda Giri was the temple priest when the Temple was destroyed. Although the Temple was built in the architectural style of Bengali Hindus, Islamic style was also noticed on the structure. 120 feet high peak extending over the second floor of the main Temple could be observed from far distant places. The peak of the Temple could be noticed as a landmark structure of Ramna in the well publicized photograph showing Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahaman lecturing at vast public gathering on Race Course Ground on March 7, 1971.
Beautiful image of Goddess Bhadrakali was seated on a wooden throne in the Temple and the Temple was surrounded by the wall of the Race Course Ground. To the right side of this image was the deity Kali of the Bhawals. The priests, worshipers, and other devotees lived in the rooms on north-east and western sides of the Temple. There was also a Shiva Temple on the side.
Regarding the efforts for rebuilding the destroyed Temple and Ashram, the Justice K. M. Sobhan Commission noted that such demands came not only from the Hindus, demands also came from the respectable representatives of the society to rebuild the famous Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram in independent Bangladesh. Even the religious minded Khadem of the Mosque expressed his desire to rebuild the Temple. The respected representatives of the society, who gave testimony to the inquiry Commission, realized the necessity to rebuild the historic Kali Temple and Ashram at Ramna and construct a memorial with the names of the martyrs carved on it. This will establish correct historical perspectives and bring consciousness in the minds of the people about the freedom struggle. The memorial will appear to the freedom complex now under construction.
So far the public Inquiry Commission could collect names of about 50 people among those who died in the hands of Pakistani invading army on March 27, 1971 at Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram. Names of all the martyrs could not be found because most of the survivors of the diabolical massacre, perpetrated by Pakistani invading army at Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram, left the country at different times. Their whereabouts could not be collected at the initial stage of inquiry. The Public Inquiry Commission will make every effort in future to collect testimony from those survivors and print a complete list of names of all the martyrs. While the Commission was investigating the destruction of Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram and mass murder committed there, specific sections of a confidential report prepared by a Commission formed under the leadership of Hamudur Rahaman, retired Chief Justice of Pakistan, were published. A very small part of the incidents of destruction and gruesome murder perpetrated by the Pakistani occupying forces in 1971 in Bangladesh was included in this report.
However, the conscientious people of the society were shocked and hurt to know from whatever little was published. The amiable citizens of Pakistan were also vocal and demanded trial for the war crimes. For the information of the people of Pakistan and the world, the report was also published in English. In order to investigate these incidents, a “Public Inquiry Commission for Destruction of Ramna Kali Temple and Ma Anandamoyee Ashram and Mass Murder” was formed on March 27, 2000. The Commission included six members and they are 1) Justice K. M. Sobhan, Chairman; 2) Prof. Muntashir Mamun, Member; 3) Writer Sahariar Kabir, Member; 4) Journalist Basudeb Dhar, Member-Secretary; 5) Dwipen Chatterjee, Member; and 6) Chandra Nath Poddar, Member.
On the occasion of Durga Puja 2000, the Awami League government of Sheikh Hasina finally conceded the demand of Bangladeshi Hindus that had been made perennially, to allow worship again on the site of the original temple. Since then, every year, a delegation of Bangladeshi Hindus has had to formally request permission from the government, and if this is granted, a temporary pandal (stage) is constructed at the site of the original temple, enabling Hindus to worship, and this structure is called “Ramna Kalibari”.
However, as soon as the festival ends, the pandal has to be dismantled as per the regulations of the city authorities. In 2004, a semi-permanent makeshift place of worship was built, and an image of the Goddess Kali was installed. It has been repeatedly alleged that visitors to the reinstated image of the Goddess Kali at the site of the original temple are harassed by the police. It is alleged that this is done with the full knowledge of local authorities to prevent the site becoming seen as a formal place of worship. Up until this point, there was nothing on the site to indicate either the history of the temple or recognition of the massacre that had taken place there in 1971.
In June 2006, the BNP government of Khaleda Zia finally announced that it would grant permission to rebuild the Ramna Kali Temple, 35 years after it was demolished, and 34 years after its remains were cleared and replaced with grass. However, the news was not universally welcomed by Bangladeshi Hindus; the Government is insisting on a relocation away from the original site on a less prominent site within the Suhrwardy Udyan; the proposed structure will also be considerably more modest than the original grand building that was truly an icon of the city.
With the framing of the Constitution of the Shri Shri Ramna KaliMandir and Ma Anandamoyee Puja Uddjapan Parishad in June 2009 and The Parishad has been working on constituting a new elected committee to march on in fulfilling the long cherished dream to rebuild the Shri Shri Ramna Kali Temple: The 500 year old famed spiral temple was considered a symbol of Hinduism and its heritage in Bangladesh*
@ARYA
I think u dont understand english..
I never said islam believes in incarnation.It is u hindus who have around 3 crore god and goddesses.
hahaha
It is what RSS and BAGRANG DAL spreading…
Spreading only hatred.
@Yasir
You wrote- “NOT ONLY THIS ITS CLAERLY WRITTEN IN ONE THERE HOLY BOOK DASHA AVATAR THAT LAST MESSENGER WILL COME AND HIS NAME WILL BE MUHAMMAD(SAW)”
Avataar means incarnation and not messenger in Sanskrit! You accept that Muhammad is Dasha Avataar then what does it imply? Either you are not Muslim or Islam believes in Avataar!
hindus believe one supreme soul and 33 devas…its your shallow knowledge on vedic religion that made your speak like that…just look at this example and see who spread violence and hatred..
just look at middle eastern countries,every day bomb blasts and many people dead…the sunnis attack the shiite and vice versa…in afghanistan,sunni rebels destroyed a shiite mosque and in return the shiites destroyed and burnt 14 sunni mosques and killed 200 sunnis..and the best part is,a ulama ,who knew A-Z about the kuran, was the head of this revenge..while in the vedic religion,there are many sections like vaishnava,shaiva,saktha,kaumara,ganapathya,saura ; but none killed themselves like you mozzies….and none of your islamic countires are peaceful or advanced in technology although you believed strictly in kuran..islam is only spreading fast because islam teaches the 5 duties ,which are very simple duties…
soon islam will collapse ,it cannot survive for more than 2000 years…..
KHADIJA IS VATICAN SPY AND PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS VATICAN FRANKENSTEIN this was exposed by a Ex Catholic Priest Alberto Rivera in his book “THE PROPHET” this exposure caused a stir in islamic and catholic countries and many of the islamic and catholic countries banned this book in their country and the writer of this book Alberto Rivera was finally MURDERED after many unsuccessful attempts. The author exposes that Vatican wanted holy city of Jerusalem from Jews very badly for that it needed the help of Arabs so Vatican used Khadija, who also was an ex-nun to trap an Arab and use him for their dirty works. Mohammad was chosen for this Khadija convinced Mohammad that AllahNimrodOisirisGod of New Testament are one god and they should unite and fight and eliminate Jews, but later on like Frankenstein Mohammad turned against his Masters the Vatican and Pope. VATICAN IS THE CREATOR OF ISLAM read this website for reference:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1157986/pg1
Despite of all ur hatred islam will win against all odds.
Its just a bad time for muslims coz muslims have gone far from the teachings of ISLAM.
Everything that is happening in the muslim world is according to Quran.
Muslims will be defeated everywhere in the world coz they are not following islam correctly.
Quran also says ISLAM will win the whole world and ISLAM will prevail.
Dont worry Agnostic,Arya ur turn will also come.
Stay back and watch.
@Yasir
I think its our turn already!
Dear @Yasir
did it ever shine in your intellect that HATING HATRED is NOT HATRED !
do you get what i mean?..if you do, drop your illogical hatred charge..
hating a doctrine that divides humanity – is legit
hating a doctrine that professes gender inequality – is legit
hating a doctrine that refuses to evolve – is legit
@ARYA
hahaha
GR8
My lil brother i have just quoted ur books name..DASHA AVATAR..
This is not a ISLAMIC book…a HINDU BOOK…
@Yasir
So you believe in Hindu books! BTW, who is the author, I mean which Rishi wrote it?
Why Mohammad is not the Kalki Avatar
We are all accustomed to the little Jakir Naiks copying and pasting utter nonsense about Mohammad being the Kalki Avatar. They are unfortunately taking some verses out of Bhavisya Purana that prophesies birth of a demon as proofs of Hindu scriptures claiming Mohammad as being the long waited avatar of Vishnu. Without even understanding they are repeatedly portraying him as the worst demon of Hinduism. That’s why people need to read the Hindu scriptures before they copy and paste.
Here are some specific examples from the life of Kalki Avatar that obviously show Mohammad cannot be possibly the long awaited avatar. Thanks to Rabindro Nath Roy for presenting this in a fluent manner.
1) kalki’s birthplace:
village: shamval
dist: moradabad
location: on the narmada river
state: orissa
2) parents:
father’s name: vishnuyasha
mother’s name: sumati
caste: brahamana
3) remarkable:
at birth parasuram, kup, vyas, ashthvama and others meet him in the guise of young sanyasins.
4) brothers and sisters:
a) brothers:
1) kavi
2) prajna (pragya)
3) sumantak
b) sisters:
none
5) order among the brothers:
fourth
6) the then king:
king vishakhayup
7) education:
from: gurukula
place: the mountain of mahendra (orissa)
subjects: vedas, archery and armor
teacher: parasuram
8. meditation and blessings of lord shiva:
meditates on lord shiva and he blesses him with a fast-riding horse, which can understand his intention and take him there.
shiva also gives him a ‘shuka’ bird who is a ‘pundit’ and will help him.
he gives kalki a sword which will be so powerful nothing can withstand.
9) friends:
garga, varga, bishal
10) marriage:
with princess padmavati of sinhala
now the question arise:
did mohammed marry a princess?
were mohammed’s parents brahamanas?
did mahammed have 3 elder brothers?
did mohammed learn the vedas from parasurama?
did mohammed come to preach and establish the vedas?
did he have those friends and brothers?
did he worship lord shiva?
did those sanyasins meet him at birth?
11) and why did kalki avatara come?
to establish the vedas which existed before him. mohammed came to cancel all the books that came before him and to establish the koran. i wonder what are some people getting at!
Rabindra da continues vibrating what I mentioned, “i shall not make any comment on the bhavishya purana as mohammed fits to be a demon there and islam a demonic faith. it is really sad that muslims themselves are degrading and defaming their faith. it is only god who knows what he has set these preachers of islam to.”
Some helpful resources: http://bhavishyapuran.blogspot.com/
Did you ever here…an Emperor staying in a small house (a length of 10×6) ???
Did you ever hear an Emperor saying…don’t praise me…????
Did you ever hear a religion preacher saying “I am a slave to God…”…
Did you ever hear…that a person who totally changed the lives of ppl and eradicated poverty for ever…???
Did you ever hear an emperor saying….Don’t bow before me…???
Did you ever hear….ppl scolding an emperor before him and was allowed to live in the same empire….???
Did you ever hear a King lending money from others (Jews) and getting scoldings from them….while as an emperor…..???
Just because u have stated the hadith….u cannot say truth is in hell…his life was really beautiful…???
Truth always wins…Mohammed was a great emperor as well as a religious preacher, a great warrior, a great ruler, a great thinker, a great lover of the human society, a person who is known for his qualities, a person who makes the change in the world, a person…
Please analyze Sir…I really love Mohammed because of his great qualities…
His way of life is practical and he changed the lives of so many ppl…even now as a slave of God…
SSS
Did you ever hear an emperor …..going to his eleven wives one after another in the same small house of (10×6)???
Did you ever hear an emperor saying….. even God praises me just like common people do???
[Quran 33:56 ]
Did you ever hear an emperor saying……. believing in me is equally important than believing in God???
Did you ever hear an emperor whose name is the source of inspiration for most of the suicide bombers and mass murderers even today???
Did you ever hear an emperor who beheaded 900 unarmed Jews (Bani Qureza) and took their women as slaves, one of whom (Rehana) was raped by him the very night her husband was butchered??? [Ibn Ishak]
Did you even hear an emperor who married a child of 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9?
Did you even hear an emperor who married his daughter in law???
His life was really beautiful???
Please analyze sir…..If you still love him then you yourself are a threat to humanity! Leave Islam and come to Vedic Dharm.
@Shourya:
Adey…..Punnakku mandaiyaa…..Puththiya vachchi nallapadiyaaa use pannu…..ippadi kutharkkama ninaikkathae…..ippadi iruntha…nee un pondattiyavae…santhekappaduva da mollamaari….karumam pudichchavanae….
If his character happens to be like that….think if anybody would have followed him….think logically…any ladies would have liked him…
I am ready to answer your one question….”Did you ever hear an emperor whose name is the source of inspiration for most of the suicide bombers and mass murderers even today???”…
Ans: Since bcoz of some stupid is doing that…it is not what he said…it is not what he asked to do to others…??? I think you need to learn much…..
Rest other questions, you use your brain to understand…imagine the life of ppl at that time and how he would have changed it…
His life was really beautiful and I also love Mohammed…since it has meaning….he changed the lives of ppl…Go and read the full life history of him and then quote Sir…..
I dont want ppl to quote…Don’t do wrong things…try to prove as Mohammed has proved over his lifetime…in making the change over the life of the ppl…
People at his time are not mad to blindly accept a concept, loved him and followed him…which he proposed at that time…since bcoz his personal and official life was beautiful…ppl loved him that much…
Just think Sir….Don’t say what other say….God has given brain to think…just use it for sometime…
Truth will not fail…It will succeed definitely…I consider his life is full of faith and truth….as his enemies called him…he is a trustable person but gone mad…even enemies praised him as trustable person…
His two friends ‘Abubakr’ and ‘Omar’…they were the remarkable persons in the world history…Their ruling is too good as it was appreciated by Jews and Christians at that time…
They hate Mohammed not bcoz of his character….but bcoz of his principles…just read some more…Sir…
I really admired by his preachings and his way of life which he left it as an example of everyone to follow…Really he was too good, beautiful….interesting guy…he touched my heart by his character…
SSS
Laa Haul Valaa Kuvvat Illah Billah!
So you mean Quran and Sahih Hadith are wrong! Every point that I made is either taken from Quran or Sahih Ahadith and Seerat. Now after denying divinity of Quran and Ahadith you are no more a Muslim my friend.
I invite you to Vedic Dharm of your ancestors.
hehehe, religious hatred all over the place!!! Thinking logically when disproving others religion, yet failing to use the same logic to examine your religion. This is what religion does to humanity.
@sho
Exactly ! ..STOP FOLLOWING ANY RELIGION TODAY
Just follow humanity and seek truth if you have the time 🙂
[…] http://Satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/ […]
cant u see d world around. do u have eyes??? hw much ever d critics criticise islam it is spreading like anythin!!!!!!!!! u r proud to b a kafir but u will understand its meaning only in d hereafter when u die!!! that time u wont get time to repent. so repent now and understand dat God is only 1. there is no equivalent to Him.even hinduism says no to idol worship. then y do u follow it? understand ur religion first then criticise others.
To the cave dweller and terrorist wannabe T Shaikh:
Here are some errors in your sacred Quran. I agree that idol worshipping is not ADVOCATED but still, to believe that the people who do so are condemned in the afterlife is a bit aggressive. I am currently reading the Quran – no wonder you people are scared to leave Islam. Allah threathens and scares me more than he enlightens. Judging from your knowledge of Islam and Sanatana Dharma, you seem like an another brainwashed nut who relies on Zakir Naik for his Quranic injection. Read the Quran, I take it you don’t know Arabic so saying my interpretation is wrong would be stupid from your part as I am reading the Quran which has been translated by a devout and educated Muslim who knew Arabic and could recite the Quran by heart. However, the current translation is not from him but from another devout and educated Arab Muslim who had a PhD in biochemistry…
Islamic cosmology/scientific errors and view of the universe:
– Let’s make on thing clear. Don’t try to be smart…Egg shaped DOES NOT equal to Spherical shaped. If Allah wanted it to be Spherical, he would have said so. But various translation have given 79:30 to be Earth is flat. But even if it was egg shaped it is wrong:
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/95f/5a3/95f5a3ee-cc20-424d-9abc-6e96ec8c343b
– The Qur’an author was ignorant of the actual scientific knowledge except rehashing the prevalent scientific error of his contemporary. Today we know sperm comes from the testicles, not from between the spine and ribs. Also, the Qur’an author did not mention the role of the ovum due to his sole observation of the sperm during intercourse. This verse fails to mention the important role of the female egg in the reproduction of humankind.
[86:5] Let the human reflect on his creation.
[86:6] He was created from ejected liquid.
[86:7] From between the spine and the viscera.
[15:26] We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter’s clay.
– Describing shooting stars as missiles of the Devil when we know that stars just as the sun, universe etc has a life cycle of their own:
[67:5] We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and guarded its borders with projectiles against the devils; we prepared for them a retribution in Hell.
– Adam and Eve which just highlights Islam is just a “refinement” of Jewish and Christian beliefs. How are these beliefs indeginous and related to India? Furthermore, you beleive humanity started from one couple? Where they white, black, brown? There is no evidence that we started and its not even possible if you think logically. The same way there are different animals and plants depending on the environment and source, we have different humans. Yes, we originated from one geographical location while earth was still in pangeatic state. However, to say we are from one couple is ludacris and lacking proof.
[2:35] We said, “O Adam, live with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom generously, as you please, but do not approach this tree, lest you sin.”
[2:36] But the devil duped them, and caused their eviction therefrom. We said, “Go down as enemies of one another. On Earth shall be your habitation and provision for awhile.”
– According to Islam, the Sun and stars are two completely different things. Modern science tells differently:
[7:54] Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe.
– The earth was created prior to the heaven. How does this make sense?
[2:29] He is the One who created for you everything on earth, then turned to the sky and perfected seven universes therein,* and He is fully aware of all things.
[41:9] Say, “You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe.”*
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.
Placed on stabilzers (mountains). Contradiction here? Earth might be flat?
– Places like Hawaii and LA are on the opposite side of earth to Mecca. Since the Earth is spherical, it’s not possible to bow down towards the direction of Mecca when you are in these places, unless Muhammad and his companions thought that the earth was flat.
[2:149] Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do.
– The evidence of Black Hole indicates certain degree of instability in the galaxy. Black holes absorb stars and even galaxies in regions of space where from which no entity, including light, can escape.
[67:3] He created seven universes in layers. You do not see any imperfection in the creation by the Most Gracious. Keep looking; do you see any flaw?
– Current technology, such as sonography, has enabled observation of baby’s gender through ultrasonic imaging. There are also sex selection clinics that allow gender determination. Plus, today’s technology has even allowed us to stop child birth through abortion. However, I am in no way glorifying this…
[31:34] With GOD is the knowledge about the Hour (end of the world). He is the One who sends down the rain, and He knows the CONTENTS of the WOMB. No soul knows what will happen to it tomorrow, and no one knows in which land he or she will die. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
– Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship. These creatues are known as ASEXUAL. The whiptail lizard in the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, and South America, which consists only of females who reproduce by parthenogenesis. Allah does not know anything about the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced. Today we know you can find an organism which creates a genetically-similar or identical copy of itself without a contribution of genetic material from another individual. There’s also hermaphrodites.
[51:49] We created a pair (male and female) of everything, that you may take heed.
Let me assure you all these verses are translted with appropirate authorization by Dr. Rashad Khalifa PhD.
Hope the truth enlightens you.
Salkia
To the cave dweller and terrorist wannabe T Shaikh:
T Shaikh
You wrote- ” hw much ever d critics criticise islam it is spreading like anythin!!!!!!!!!”
Religion for a person like you and your Jihadi mentors is nothing more than poultry farms whose only criterion for being best is the number of chickens it produces and their quality to spread like anything! But try to differentiate between chickens and humans. For that you need to read something substantial based on logic and facts. And if you could refrain yourself from reading illogical scriptures (whose only aim is to establish a mass murderer, rapist and a pedophile as a prophet) for that time, it will really help you understand the truth.
Regarding your Hidayat of believing in one God, you should have read the very first line written on this site right on top of the front page which I give here again-
He is One and only One, Sustains entire universe, Omnipresent, Formless, All-Powerful, Perfect, Omniscient, Unborn, Eternal and supports us always. He alone should be worshipped. (Yajurveda 40.8)
Now I ask you, do you believe in One God whom you dont associate any partner with? If so, why do you include Muhammad in your prayers along with Allah? What if I believe in One God but not in Muhammad? If Muhammad is not equivalent to Allah, why is it equally important to believe in Muhammad to get heaven? Why your Kalma contains “Muhammad ur Rasul Allah” in addition to “Lailaah illallaah”? Moreover, why do you bow down to Kaba idol when you dont bow to anyone accept Allah? You allege Hindus to be idolaters but you yourself are biggest idolaters as you bow down to biggest idol Kaba.
Finally, you have admitted that Hinduism does not teach idolatry but sorry to say that Islam teaches you to bow to Kaba idol. So now its your turn to repent by leaving Islam and embrace Vedic Dharm which your ancestors were proud of.
@T sheikh
I worship stone idols, tere allah ke baap ka kya jaata?
@Shaik Namaste Dear Brother
Brother, What is the size of Allah’s throne. Please tell me exact size of throne in width & height? How many pages contain in Allah’s book “Loha Mahfooj”? & What are materials & in which proportion (Iron, Plastic, Brass, Gold, Silver) used in making Allah’s Throne. Is Allah’s throne eternal or perishable?. Please put some light on this.
@ Kalbhaira / Truth Seeker , Dear my brother in my motherland and Humanity,
All your questions belong to ilme khaib (knowledge of unseen). I do not have knowledge of unseen.Quran says Allah is not empty or formless , he is with form, This is to beleive, How it is ? Allah only Knows. It is good that you asked about your creator , his nature and how he creates..Pl keep asking your inner mind, pl conduct a lot of experiements, analyse, debate various hypothesis & theories, but it will be difficult to convince in this world with our limited intellectuality. Allah gifts righteous people to see him in paradise. This will be the ultimate satisfaction for any heart.
Meanwhile Satan will show some pictures and idols to innocent people as God..God is much beautiful than whatever any conceive in mind…(But the pity is how bad pictures of God is conceived in the name of idol…You may propose some beautiful ..only a suggestion for alternative..) Any how you can conceive God within level of God’s creations only..If you go to a studio and take your own picture if the studio person gives you some different picture, what will be your reactions? anyhow all these assumptions on God leads to lie..false
YOU ALL START BOUNCING ON ME WHEN I SAID THE TRUTH THAT I DO NOT HAVE SUCH DETAILED IDEA ON GOD..alternatively you are happy that Jews support idol worship…christians may also support..some muslims may also support..but not islam…
shaik – alla is unseen so how come you believe in alla, to start with? and please spare this discourse on idol worship. if anything it is u guys who practice idol worship and attach partners to God.
@Raghuveer,
BELEIF means beleiving unseen, what we can not grasp or possible imagine manything..I beleive in Allah because I have not seen Him…Angels also I have not seen , but beleive…what you want to discuss, if not the basic religious difference on understanding of God ..some politics….
Dear Shaikh,
Now that you admit that belief means believing in unseen, a wise man can see the inherent contradiction in an exclusive philosophy. While you consider that you have right to believe in unseen and unverified, you refuse to accept that others also have the same right – to believe in what they see or not see.
And hence a philosophy that claims that those who believe in unseen X,Y and Z will alone to go Heaven, and those who refuse to believe in unseen X, Y,Z but believe in A, B, C instead will go to Hell – is a fraud philosophy.
So if as a Muslim (meaning lover of humility), you acknowledge that Heaven and Hell are not dependent on one’s beliefs and that a person need not go to Heaven even if He refuses to believe in any Prophet or even Allah, so far He is otherwise peaceful and helpful, then there remains no reason for dispute. If you acknowledge that just as so-called Muslims can preach in Varanasi as per Freedom of Expression, even Hindus and Christians can preach and build temples and churches in Mecca and freely promote their ideology and yet deserve no punishment either by Allah or humans, then we all are speaking the same language.
But moment you say that only who believe in 5-6-7 unseens of medieval Arabs – Judgment Day, Prophets, Last Prophet, Quran, Heaven, Angels Hell blah blah – will be loved by Allah and rest will be punished to Hell regardless of their deeds, then this is nothing but philosophy of hatred.
We are not against Islam but this fanatic philosophy of hatred. The day fanatics like Zakir Naik announce that apostates deserve no punishment for propagating their beliefs in a Muslim Sharia compliant country and that non-Muslims can also freely preach in locations ruled as per modern Quran, then we shall also embrace him with compassion in same manner as Allah gives chance to the worst of offender if he repents.
We pray Allah inspires these fanatics to give us this chance to hug such people very soon.
Entire humanity is one family and those who recommend Hell and Heaven on basis of personal non-violent beliefs of individual are the real Kafirs. Rest of all of us shall go to Heaven.
@ Satyagni / all , Dear my brother or sister in my motherland and Humanity,
Thanks for your lecture given without reading my words.
I said very clearly I beleive in Allah or God, also I have not seen him through my vision or my physical eyes yet, so I can not accept any pictures / symbols / sculptures or idols as God or Allah. Giving idols does not support my beleif system which look a lie someone showing me or someone or something as God. Again pl do not give me a lecture saying that your Vedas already says the samething about God.
YOU SAY IN PLAIN WORDS AS YOU SUPPORT IDOL WORSHIPPING..IT IS YOUR FREEDOM OF FAITH.NO PROBLEM FOR ME..HOW I AM SHOUTING HERE AS I AM NOT AGREEING IDOL WORSHIPPING, MAKING MY POINT VERY CLEAR, YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE BELEIVING IDOLS AS YOUR GODS…
I CAN NOT SEE AND SAY ANY SCULPTURE IS ALLAH BECAUSE I HAVE NOT SEEN ALLAH BY VISION. I understand greatness of Allah’s creation and UNDERSTAND THE EXISTENCE OF THE CREATOR ALLAH(SWT).
A muslim can not make war with anyone unless it is enforced on them by disbelivers. If disbelivers steps back from war to peace no muslim can do war..(Pl read Quran0 You all confused with verses related to war. YOU HAVE SIMPLE UNWANTED FEAR IT DRIVES YOU NOT TO THINK BUT TO CREATE ALLEGATIONS..
Pl do not mix and misinterpret political issues / what happened in Indian politics / world politics with Islam. Then you need to discuss equally with fanatic Hindus, fanatic Christians, fanatic Budhdhists, fanatic Jews equally. (Do not try to bluff as they are not fighting for their religion or race or never fought for their religion or races)…Quran already says as we are part of single human family..We are brothers,
What factors disunited us ? Can you give me list for this? We will study with unbaised manner
Islam cries all are brothers..
EVERYBODY HAVE FREEDOM TO PURSUE THEIR FAITH. QURAN SAYS IT IS GOD’S WILL
ALLAH KNOWS WELL WHOSE FAITH IS CORRECT., I DO NOT DISPUTE THIS FACT…
MISCONCEPTIONS YOU CREATE IN LONG RUN WILL ENSURE GROWTH OF ISLAM..ALL OUR BROTHERS WILL HAVE BETTER REASONS WHY ISLAM IS CORRECT..
Satayagni, BUT YOUR INTENTION IS GOOD..BUT METHOD IS NOT CORRECT to get unity and peace for all….
@shaikh
Good jumper/dumper you’re. From incest to pedophilia to jihad….
“A muslim can not make war with anyone unless it is enforced on them by disbelivers. If disbelivers steps back from war to peace no muslim can do war..(Pl read Quran0 You all confused with verses related to war. YOU HAVE SIMPLE UNWANTED FEAR IT DRIVES YOU NOT TO THINK BUT TO CREATE ALLEGATIONS..”
We have done enough reading, its your time now.
Start reading the chapter on Jihad (Vol.IV, pp. 34-199) in Bukhari. Talk of self defence is rubbish.
muslims bow in front of wall of masjid..Do Allah is present in front of you to bow??,,,If yes then it means he is not omnipresent and if no,then you are bowing to wall only because Allah is somewhere on 7th sky/heaven..:D…
.
Now you will say ” we think of Allah and use kaaba as direction” ..So in the same way hindus use idols as direction for mind and nobody will say that idols made of soil is God..Its just a SYMBOLIC thing..:) and dont forget muslims worship grave also and also include mohamad in prayers ..Inclusion in prayer is worshipping …Also Allah who is a limited thing (because he is in 7th heaven or throne or surrounds it or whatever but not omnipresent) is also an IDOL…IDOL means a limited thing either seen or unseen because something unseen doesnot always become omnipresent just like a ghost or many things in universe are unseen..:D
“EVERYBODY HAVE FREEDOM TO PURSUE THEIR FAITH. QURAN SAYS IT IS GOD’S WILL
ALLAH KNOWS WELL WHOSE FAITH IS CORRECT., I DO NOT DISPUTE THIS FACT…
MISCONCEPTIONS YOU CREATE IN LONG RUN WILL ENSURE GROWTH OF ISLAM..ALL OUR BROTHERS WILL HAVE BETTER REASONS WHY ISLAM IS CORRECT..”
If this be your belief, we have no objection whatsoever. In fact we assert that those who believe in freedom of expression for peaceful “non-believers” and apostates are indeed Muslims. We also believe in this and hence we are also Muslims.
Our Jihad is against those Kafirs who say that apostates should be punished if they propagate their belief or that non-believers cannot promote their faith in Mecca, Medina. In other words, while we ourselves bow to great liberal Muslims like Ashfaq and APJ, we are only against Kafirs like Zakir Naik/ osama/ their sympathizers etc who clearly say that non-believers will go to Hell regardless of their good deeds and that apostates should be killed as per Quran.
We hope we are together in fighting such fanatics and their ideology. We have made amply clear that we have never ever uttered anything insulting against nor will do so in future regarding the actual Quran because only Allah can understand it. Our Jihad is simply against those Kafirs who who act as middle men and issue fatwa on who shall go to Hell and who shall not. And Kafirs like Saudis who disallow non-believers from building temples/ churches or propagating their beliefs peacefully, and have different kinds of punishments for so-called Muslims, People of Books and others.
In other words, we have nothing against original Quran and its teaching. We are against what Kafirs like Zakir Naik and many Arabs etc have represented it to be over last 1400 years.
We sincerely appreciate that you are one with us in our intent. Methods of course can vary among humans. Allah will guide us to better methods if we are honest in our intent. May we always show this unity and pray that each of us achieve Hell not because what they unseens they believe in, but on basis of our honesty alone.
Ameen
Admin
I second the author of this website. The sick Arab mentality needs to be destroyed.
Latest example- A NSW (Australia)resident Christian Martinez, 31, recently converted to Islam. He went out drinking with his friends on Saturday night, but was woken up on the early hours of Sunday morning, by four Muslims who had broken into his home. Three of them hold Martinez down while the fourth, Tolga Cifci, 20, lashed him 40 times with an electric cable. The four Muslims were caught and charged by the police for break and entry and aggravated assault.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/islam-convert-christian-martinez-allegedly-lashed-40-times-with-an-electrical-cord-as-punishment-for-going-to-the-pub/story-e6freuy9-1226097842298
Now this guy Martinez has committed shirk and his brethern have been arrested by NSW police. So this convert will be harassed more by his own brethern. If he wishes to revert to Xtianity, he may even be killed by the followers of the sharia. Martinex forgot the dictum – look before you leap and is in a catch 22 situation.
@ Satyagani Agni / Admin , Dear my brother / Sister in my motherland and Humanity,
We can understand each other’s perceptions , feelings, observations, intentions, notions, opinions, criticisms, finer views of each other. There is no meaning of debating such issue / issues in order to get an solution.
Really my words are highly limited to answer all your perceptions and intentions , because everything is relative, somewhere each one will assume a reference place for discussion . I sincerely try my best to look into the importance of perceptions and notions of everyone including you , This helps me to understand the side of the truth and where I have to stand in each issue.
Basic subject of any religion is God, creator of everything . Islam declared very clearly, simply, openly that
” There is no god, except Allah” – This simple declaration is all about Islam, all other Islamic sub faiths, pillars, systems, rules and regulations, customs explains or supports or may enhance this basic faith which needs to be discussed after understanding of the Hard fact that…”Allah is the only God”
“ Or have you taken unto yourself others beside Him to be your protectors,even such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves”( Quran 13:16)
This means Islam rejects all other Gods, religions, ideologies and isms derived out of those gods(?)..
But in case of other religions God or Gods revolves around circles, shares the divinity with each other, but if we look deeply,
– Jewish religion never accepts Christianity (denies Jesus even as prophet) or Hindusim or others (highly against idol worship or against polytheism)
– Christianity does not accept Jewism (when christian accepts Jesus as God ) or Hinduism (when christians say Jesus only God)
– Hinduism can not accept Jewish beleif or Christianity or Buddhism (when polytheism is part of Hindusim)
– Buddism can not accept Hindusim theologically (When Budhdhism rejects the customs of Hindu traditions)
Also each of these religions divided into more denominations which are all again not acceptable to each other sub denominations.
But all of them join when they decide to fight islam.
Also It looks interesting that all of these do not accept islam when Islam rejects all these religions.
Each one claim that their sect only will go to heaven. But Allah will decide who will go to heaven ? and who will enter Hell?
As per Islam all other Gods & religions are false, have no evidence to support their divinity even in their Vedas.
This is the fact.
But whenever they translate their God into arabic language, they claim that Allah is their God.
Bible is in arabic it says God is Allah, same may be true for Bagawat Gita when it will be translated into arabic..
There is No god, EXCEPT ALLAH is the basic truth…Allah do not share His Glory or Perfectness or Kingdom or His Divinity with anyone or anything or any of His creations.
Glory of Allah cannot be ADDED even a micron or whatever lesser level if whole creations get united and works, does whatever they can do to achieve that goal. Glory of Allah is so perfect (our words are limited to explain that)..
Glory of Allah cannot be DEDUCTED even a micron or whatever lesser level if whole creation get united and works to oppose Allah. Glory of Allah is so perfect (our words are limited to explain that).
There is no meaning to worship Allah (SWT) in order to add His Glory
There is no meaning to reject Allah (SWT) in order to deduct His Glory.
But creations like Humans and Jinns will undergo this test of rebelling against divinity of Allah which no one can stop except Allah wills , until this world ends.
Definitely more than 90% of creations (large majority) rebelled to deduct the glory of Allah by creating more Gods, but they failed or still failing…I need to search my God in Jewism, Christianity, Budhdhism
I am totally confused, wasted my time by searching my God in Hinduism.
Meanwhile some says me There is no God, everything came on its own, which surprises me.
How can I reject my creator when I see myself was created out of nothing !
Allah is Rahman , most merciful, he feeds , shows mercy and supports all those people who even reject Him. He gives freedom and opportunity to fight against Him. He gives more and more support to all those who reject and fight against Him. Allah forgives those who acknowledge their failure ultimately.
Allah is Raheem, most Loving those who already accepted their failure to fight against Him
Satyagni, You have mentioned that you are doing Jihad against those who do jihad with you.
Even logically if there is conflict both parties have to agree / acknowledge that they are part of problems , there is no conflict if there is a single party involved.
Highlighting you about the basic conflict of Satans with Allah (SWT)
Shaitans also know that they can never win Allah, but they want you or we humans should not succeed.
I know little about APJ, Zakir , Osama or Asfaq or anyone who are which side of the truth. God knows well and He will judge and reward.
But they had their own individual goals,
APJ had his career goals, Allah already reward him with high reputation in this world. His personal contribution to nation is great and he had appreciated very good basics of Islam and showed respect , tolerance to other’s faith
Osama had his military goals like any of the kings of world which he has achieved or failed. In modern history he challenged Imperial powers like Russia (supported by US) and US . But I do not personally agree with his methodology or methodology of similar minded people which is not in accordance with methodology of Prophet Muhammad (sal).
People like Zakir try their best to add glory of Allah, I do not know whether they have achieved that? But I do not agree with his methodology of getting into Veda’s of others and trying to prove his knowledge or try to impress others. This is not a methodology of prophet. Allah will reward as per Zakir’s intentions.
But as per me I want to be on the side of the basic fact or truth that,
“THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH”
Also I have nothing with me to add glory to Allah or Reject Allah, only hoping the mercy of Allah which will only give meaning to me.
I believe in all meaningful noble actions which enables me keep near to Allah (SWT) and which are actions helps the humanity, which my God Allah loves me whenever I do / involve.
Also noble actions gives meaning to our human relations and existence.
Allah shows mercy on those who shows mercy on humanbeings
I believe Prophet Muhammad best role model explained us the basic truth “There is no God except Allah”,
I beleive whatever he did & left to the world are noble actions and whatever allegations against prophet Muhammad (sal) are lies, forged, does not have any supportive evidence.
– Muhammad (sal) conveyed truth of ” There is no God except Allah” with showing much more patience.
– He was prepared for migration and sacrifice amid torture whenever he convey the truth with patience
– As a ruler of muslims he entered into agreement (even which is not favourable for them ) maily to estabilish peace and to create peaceful environment for the people to understand the basic truth ” There is no god except Allah”
– As a ruler he was forced into self defence to safeguard his weak followers. He has every right for this whenever his subject were humiliated.
– As a leader of a sovereign muslim state Muhammad (sal) entered into strategic offence. He has every right considering threat posed on to the peaceful people of Islam.
Muhammad Nabi (sal) shown best methodology of war or agreement or peace. (No hypocrisy like concepts of secularisms practiced today)
– More & More people of this website criticize and challenge his character.
Prophet is a best example to see how to practice monogamy when he lived with widower Kadija. This is a beautiful love for ideals.
Prophet has a obligation to show examples on how to provide justice in a polygamy and show the rules of marriage to beleivers.
Whoever criticises him only encouraged monasticism which again created hidden sexual cheatings or free sex or adultery appreciated in the society. There was children no one supported them, had legal fathers.
In each angle Muhammad Nabi is the best role model, still he is a human to muslims. (because of his polygamy)..But many humans become God due to their practice of Monaticism.
But if you see their God they involved in complete family life, much worst than the criticiser’s say.
I told my view, pl never get into my words selectively and try to criticise.
Please have a wholistic view.. I do feel you need freedom to practice whatever you beleive, Islam gives that freedom, but I can not accept your views are truth. I do not want to be the side of losers
But definitely I acknowledge that present muslims are away from correct methodology of Islam which is the reason for all the chaos. I definitely do not support all the actions of muslims…
@shaikh Namaste my dear brother
For my beloved prophet
http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/#comment-14344
@shaikh Namaste my dear brother
& what is your response on this
http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/#comment-14423
@Truth Seeker
—–what is your response on this
http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/#comment-14423
Any view must be supported with authentic information with correct interpretation.
In general Hindu religion promotes concept of monasticism ( refraining from sexual relation ) and this requirement becomes basis for attachment with God. Some one who controls his desires is Rishi, also debates goes whether one can control ?
Polygamy is not a criticism in case of Semitic religion (until St. Paul proposed monasticism in christianity). Polygamy is not wrong until justice is done to the concerned wives. Polygamy is a solution for many situation, if not practice will lead to suffering or adultery. Sexuality alone not a reason for polygamy but there were a lot social issues concerned. Have your able to abolish polygamy legally?
Again illegal relationship not get stopped. Still there are many love affair among people, interchange their mates as they wish, illegally..when it will be legalized morality and responsibility will increase.
@ Shaikh, please point me to instances where Vedic scriptures espouse monasticism, as you claim. Only those that wish to adopt the lifestyle of a forest hermit or sanyasis / sadhus are expected to practice monasticism. On top of it, you have boxed monasticism into something about sexual relationship. Monasticism is much more broader than sexual instinct. And even in the case of someone that is striving to practice monasticism (again this word and meaning are too narrow for what is the Vedic way of monasticism), it is not about merely renouncing worldly pursuits and contemplating God but at an individual level, it means cessation of expecting results from the duties that one performs, amongst other things.
There are 20+ verses in Rig Veda that describe the wedding ceremony by using the Sun and Moon as groom and bride (as an allegory). There are hymns that seek the vitality for forming, germinating and blossoming of an embryo into a child in Rig Veda. There are many verses in Atharvana Veda on a husband and wife. Here is a sample…I am He, you are She, I am Song, you are Verse, We two shall together dwell, becoming parents of children….Nothing in the Vedic scriptures encourages anybody to seek monasticism as the only way to the Almighty. Living in the forest or becoming a sadhu / sanyasi is one of the ways and this in an individual’s call.
If you do not know all this, please refrain from posting your own opinions as a generic opinion. You seem to know zilch about the basis of salvation in Vedic scriptures.
@Apolloreach
Great ! Excellent. We will always thankful of God great scholar like you is among us.
@Apolloreach
We will be happy if your words are followed by everyone here
—If you do not know all this, please refrain from posting your own opinions as a generic opinion. You seem to know zilch about the basis of salvation in Vedic scriptures—
This is a good example of double standard used by people like you..Here a lot of lies are pasted on Islam without any aunthetic evidences or selective hiding truth techniques, confusing techniques are used….
IF EVERYONE AGREES THIS LOGIC OF APPOLLO WE PROPSE TO STOP THIS WHOLE WEBSITE…OR WEBSITE AGREES MANY CLAIMS ARE LIES , OR CREATED LIES ON ISLAM
@shaikh
what lies? enlighten us.
@shaikh:
IF EVERYONE AGREES THIS LOGIC OF APPOLLO WE PROPSE TO STOP THIS WHOLE WEBSITE…OR WEBSITE AGREES MANY CLAIMS ARE LIES , OR CREATED LIES ON ISLAM
Here’s the deal shaikh. I’ll throw you a bone. How about you working towards:
(a)secularizing every Islamic country on earth. There ought to be complete separation of “church/mosque/temple/synagogue” and state.
(b)working towards a Uniform civil code in India. The government should not care which idol you bow towards. Same rules for 1.2 Billion Indian, Momins or Kufrs.
(c)Complete freedom of speech. Let commies write about AIT, let MF Hussain paint Hindu goddesses in the nude, let Meera Nair make a movie about widows and lesbians in Varanasi…but if all of them are to be allowed, let us also allow Taslima Nasreen and Salman Rushdie’s books to be freely available in India. Nobody is Wajib-ul-Qatal including apostates.
(d)Let neither Gita nor Bible lessons or Quran lessons be taught in schools. Let science and math be taught in schools.
(e)For Allah’s sake, let not the government of India subsidize the trip of a Momin on Hajj using MY TAXPAYER MONEY. I pay taxes so that India improves, not so that Saudi Arabian tourism can improve!
If you agree with these and work towards these, you will be a force of immense good for India and the world.
If you disagree, Islam is fair game and I will continue to trash and expose it. K?
Shaikh, what double standard? You claimed Hinduism encourages monasticism and used sex as a cornet stone. I showed from Vedas that it is not so but on the contrary there are verses in Vedas that deal with marriage, progeny etc. If you have proof to back your opinion, please do bring them to the table. I can even bring evidences from Vedas on some aspects of marital life. And this once again proves your view point of monasticism to be wrong – Devoted to yajna, gathering wealth, they (husband and wife)serve the Immortal , united in mutual love (RV 8/31/9).
On Islam & what is seen on this website, did anybody stop you from coming up with specific rebuttals to the posts here. For starters, why don’t you prove this website wrong on apostasy in Islam and the penalty for the same. I am no expert on Islam but you are. So why don’t you give it a shot?
Appollo ji, shaikh (as for the matter the majority of visitors here, including me) are below the level at which you are speaking. He is speaking generally on many isues like I do over @ IH site. So let us handle it while you devote your time elsewhere. 😛
@Apolloreach,
Punishment of apostasy is applicable for only those who want to create mischief within muslim soceity by entering as muslim whenever they wish and whenever they can leave. This is linked with creating mischeif in the society. Anyone has the right to reject beleif in Islam if they do not want. Quran gives a lot of guidelines , derived rules are from this basic guidelines supported with Hadees. If I show you evidence quran and Hadees says one can Islam if he does not agree what you will do? Punishment will be prescribed by the leader of the soceity (not by any individual) or Islamic court in case of apostacy.Pl do not look islam with narrow mind. Punishment for rejecting Allah will be in next life only which Allah will give, no one can take this authority. But in a case of mischeif created in soceity leader or court can decide this…Pl think when Islam has such a tough law people are compelled to think manytimes they enter Islam…because they can not leave as per you..This again proves Islam can not be forced..Islam asks you to think manytimes before you enter and join willingly, do not take it granted
@ Shaikh, here are evidences from Hadiths (Sahih Sunni ones) that tie death and apostasy. I can also show you the ones in Shia traditions too. So it is not about somebody creating mischief, as you claim. Do you reject these hadiths? If so, please state so.
“Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him” Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57
“Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17
@Appolloreach / KalBairav
——–“Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him” Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57——
If a person says he is a muslim and tries to change the basics and tenants of Islam (considered as who changed the religion and left religion) , also this leads to mischeif & division within society will be legally prosecuted to death sentence
If one do not agree with Islam and says he is Hindu, he has freedom to choose his faith in this life for many reasons.There is no compulsion in religion.
Pl understand with all relevant quranic verses and other Hadees based on context / background which prescribes this punishment. Pl do not take a generalised understanding…
—-This is why Islam will fail. Once you remove this “punishment for mischief is death” people in Arabian desert land will quit Islam faster than sh*t through a goose. Open your eyes, there are so many ex-Muslim apostate websites on the internet——
KalBairav, you need to say in year how may sh*t a goose gives….Although you have used foul languages (as per your standard!) to emphasize your views…
1. Do you know how many people enter islam every year ?
Though people will from islam , many will enter islam..This is not the scale to estimate or underestimate truth of any religion…This looks like if India does not have border security force every one will escape India and will go somewhere. all your logics are interesting and childish do not explain the truth
@shaikh:
I am aware of this fantasy that Momins have about how their religion is the fastest spreading…How fast a religion is spreading is meaningless if on announcing apostasy, one is punishable by death!!! Do you get this? If Momins are so secure about their religion, why are there so many Islamic countries in the world where non-Islamic religions arent allowed to be preached and propagated? Zakir Naik gave a 2+2 = 4 logic to justify this. I hope you are more intelligent than him and dont parrot such idiocy.
@shaikh:
Brother I want to follow path of Great Mohamad by doing sex with 9 years old girl, Although I will give right of my wife to her as Mohamad did. How islam will treat me for this. I think my act is very pious & what u think? I want to do this only to protect the child.
@Truth Seeker
Dont you want to kill some kafirs(easy label some one that he insulted prophet) and give respected life to the captured wives and daughters by keeping them as sex slaves(right hand posessions)?
@adolf
Brother I get very frustrate when I read corrupted Kuran & Hadith which are denigrating my Great prophet Mohamad by putting blames on him that He had sex with little child girl, made women sex slaves & i have written on this, you please must read
http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/#comment-14344
But we are still not able to stop Kaffirs & traitor of Islam Like Shaik & Jakir Naik. & in frustration & to make them understand I write critically sometimes. Although I think great Mohamad was a man of morals. Mohamad was the true follower of religion because he had adopted characteristic of true religion Non-violence, Patience, Forgiving, Self-control, Non-Stealing, Purity, Brahmacharya (Self-control and NON-obscenity), Intellect, Knowledge seeking, Truthfulness, Non-Anger, Putting strong efforts, Self-study or self-evaluation.
@ Gentlemen
Most of your criticisms are already answered by various scholars of Islam, detailed literatures are available with enough facts, data, background ..etc., nothing to add new by me.
Only your way of raising criticism and method of criticizing changed.
Our discussions will be always meaningless or will go only personal nature if you do not support your criticism/ arguments related to islam or Md. Nabi through aunthetic texts (quran and aunthetic Hadith) with correct interpretation.
You prove if there is some Gods in the universe other than our creator, we call Him as Allah (SWT)
Pl get in depth understanding of Quran – Hadith literature which is the source of Islam.(Pl avoid your giving criticism / arguments without authentic texts, facts, proven data, background and context of an issue) PL check / ESTABLISH YOUR CRITICISIM FIRST WITHIN YOU because each criticism can be disqualified.
Have a wholistic unerstanding on what quran says?
We muslims have to follow all clear guidelines of Quran which is explained to us by Md. Nabi, lived as per quran and shahabas followed him. They remain our role models. All muslims have to follow islam with correct understanding. Reports on Md Nabi have to be analysed critically with reference to authenticity of the report and conformance to quran. Also understanding the meanings of the report is very important. Correct understanding of Hadith to be commented by very good scholars of Hadith only.
Simply dragging some readers and asking opinions about your opinions will not help any one. Even some historians deny Jesus existed in the history (!) , there is no proof in History whether Rama lived. Then I can claim you all following some stories. This will not lead to correct understanding or interpretations.
Also your non-standard way of approach will not lead to any worthy, intellectual discussion on any subject.
I am not interested to give my own created views or interested to accept, endorse some one’s opinion. (vested interest)
@shaikh:
Punishment of apostasy is applicable for only those who want to create mischief within muslim soceity by entering as muslim whenever they wish and whenever they can leave.
This is why Islam will fail. Once you remove this “punishment for mischief is death” people in Arabian desert land will quit Islam faster than sh*t through a goose. Open your eyes, there are so many ex-Muslim apostate websites on the internet. Whenever people have freedom they quit dogmatic belief systems.
You are so drunk in blindly believing what the Quran says that you have given up your sense of rationality. Had the Quran said that Saturday is the day of Satan and all children born on Saturdays ought to be immediately put to death, you will continue to rationalize even such stupidities. Thats because your entire existence as a human being revolves around Islam. The first and last identify you hold for yourself is that you are a Muslim. Islam, Mo, Quran, Allah is all that works within your brain cells 24X7. Your Arabian masters have indeed made a mockery of a human being that you are that you cannot look nor do you care to look outside the deepest depths of the well you find yourself in.
In any case here is a discussion some of us had with a user named AHMAD who like you tried to defend the indefensible – death sentence for apostasy. Go through that…none of your reasons for killing an apostate stand the test of logic. I should have known…to be a Muslim the first step is to leave your mental faculties at the doorstep.
Kal Bhairav: I read the thread you pointed above. Very interesting and troublesome too.I am sure Shaik’s own immediate female family members will find polygamy hard to accept. And death for apostasy, in fiqh, only reiterates the idea that ZN espouses that Islam is like a war machine and when one leaves Islam, it is treason and the guy that switched sides needs to be executed. We cannot locate another instance where a religious system categorizes the kind of apostates, as private, major blasphemy, minor blasphemy etc.
Unless a set of people really spent a huge time with a twisted mind to hand over punishment for apostasy, this level of sophistication of punishment for apostasy could not have come up. There is a separate section called Hudood in fiqh, under which comes apostasy. Apostasy is a criminal offense.The hudood laws are supposed to be sent down by none other than God while other sections are said to be formed by mortal men & hudood laws are only for extremely serious offenses.
People like Shaikh have no choice but to defend polygamy and apostasy. After all, they cannot reject the hadiths that point to Muhammad himself having uttered those things (sahih ones).
@shaikh,
>>Polygamy is not wrong until justice is done to the concerned wives
As the population of india is skewed and has more males, will you support polyandry, as women can do justice to many men?
adolf, Bingo. I am curious if these madrasa mindsets will be fine with their mothers or sisters or wives having multiple husbands and the wife going around to multiple husbands every night like what mohammed did.
@adolf
Good logical question.
—–As the population of india is skewed and has more males, will you support polyandry, as women can do justice to many men?——
You know very well core reason of conflict Mahabarath war..You like men fight..Think you imagine both cases of Polygamy & accepting more husbands for one woman. Better you study with woman thinkers, sociologists, legal experts…You build logical cases…
Then you may question Allah’s wisdom ..My question is simple…
Have you stopped some sections of humanbeings interchanging their mates due to many reasons?
Monogamy is not practical in such cases although it is highly recommended in Islam.
Islam recommends monogamy also agrees a situation of polygamy which has no harm if legalised..
I see people proposing ONLY monogamy always permits illegal free sex also..
@shaikh Namaste brother
No woman wants to share his husband with another woman as no husband wants to share his wife. You can ask to your mother & sisters. That the reason Veda always support monogamy. But in cases of when woman is not able to give successor to her husband then with permission wife & society second marriage can be arranged. But there one must need permission of society & existing wife. Veda always impartial for both husband & wife. I have not seen any woman in my around who wants to share his husband. If you expect faithfulness from your wife then it is your moral duty to be faithful only to your wife. What problem do you have to understand this. As far Mahabharata story concerned Mahabharata today available is not authenticated, there were only ten thousand verse written by sage Ved Vyas in original Mahabharata as per expert & ancient text like Sanjivani of Raja Bhoj etc but today more than 1 Lacs verse found in Mahabharata that means more than ninety thousand verse had been added later by corrupt people. & Dropadi married only to Yudhister.
@Truth Seeker,
Islam also recommends Monogamy as a core principle for doing justice to a woman..But one can choose option of polygamy if there is situation he has to do justice for more woman
@ Shaik
Have u asked to your mother & sisters if they would prefer another wife of their husband? I am sure they will give you a slap even think of this. Go & do practically.
@shaikh,
>>You know very well core reason of conflict Mahabarath war
The core reason fro mahabaratha is becuase not even 5 cities are given to pandavas who are the rightful owners.
If the core reason was polyandry, fight should have been between pandavas, which is not the case.
>>. Better you study with woman thinkers,legal experts
The though process changes as environment changes, morality(legal issues) changes with time and place. For e.g you cant even think of your wife saying “Honey your kids and my kids are fighting with our kids”
>>Islam recommends monogamy also agrees a situation of polygamy which has no harm if legalised..
Ploygamy is only useful at times of wars, so is polyandry. If you legalise one legalize the other.
also, there is a novel Randaam Oozham in malayalam by writer ( M.T Vasudevan Nair). Mahabhartha in Bhim’s point of view. He clearly shows Kunthi’s tactics of preventing infight between brothers by telling them to share her, because one guy married would spark jealousy and envy among others for a damsel like her. It is no justification of polyandry and not even close to the idea that this was what caused the great war.
Mahabharata is a saga of human emotions and characters. M.T Vasudevan Nair in his award winning novel Randaam Oozham ( Second Chance) depicts the case of polyandry as Kunthi purposefully telling all the brothers to marry her(conditions included) as she was afraid that infghting among the brothers would start for the beautiful damsel out of jealousy and lust. This would put an end to the fight for justice for what was rightfully their’s. This is not a justification of polyandry,and how on earth did you land up wth the idea that this was what caused the war?
@adolf
——Ploygamy is only useful at times of wars, so is polyandry. If you legalise one legalize the other—-
May be your religion accepts polyandry. But in case of Islam “NO”
—-you cant even think of your wife saying “Honey your kids and my kids are fighting with our kids”—-
You interpret the above your own statement for the case of polyandry.
Whoever talks all these logical inferences always legalize adultery. Christian faith in Europe talks much about monogamy and encourages monasticism in theory, but in practice many tend to go for adultery fear of marriage.
Even Hindusim did not completely abolish polygamy or adultery in practice (data need to be analysed)
Polygamy was widely accepted culture in soceity before Muhammad Nabi for many reasons, even adultery. Islam limited polygamy with reason of doing justice and recommends monogamy only.
Polygamy is the rule of exception for anyone to meet many situations of life.
Example : –
– Situations of Supporting of widowers
– Situations of supporting surplus woman
– Situations of resolving love preferences and conflicts
– Situations of more sexual need of any individual who should not go for adultery which will create illegal children
– Leaders go for more marriage to strengthen the bond between states
– Medical, child birth reasons many
The above are part of natuaral social demands which can be legalized ,nothing do with Islam, even if you think logically. Islam mainly talks conditions of doing justice in such cases and ensuring legal rights of children and legal , social support for woman who accepts polygamy in a situation. Even modern thinkers like you do not have answer for such practical situations. If you agree this reason of Polygamy in principle we will talk about polyandary. I told islam recommends only monogamy but do not stop polygamy as a special situation..Even if we agree a population of 1100 woman per 1000 man..There is a 10% max possibility only. But if you study the data polygamy is 2% in all soceity in practice, Islam legalized this. You all guys still thinking this subject because still your mind desire it.
You think of a sitaution, I make a statement about me and I am truthful that statement.
But you make a statement about you or your religion, you are not truthful in practice..
Islam legalizes the conflict for this marginal percentage of people, liberalizes the marriage with agreements and strict divine conditions, adultery , illegal relations strictly discouragaed.
@adolf
——Ploygamy is only useful at times of wars, so is polyandry. If you legalise one legalize the other—-
May be your religion accepts polyandry. But in case of Islam “NO”
—-you cant even think of your wife saying “Honey your kids and my kids are fighting with our kids”—-
You interpret the above your own statement for the case of polyandry.
Whoever talks all these logical inferences always legalize adultery. Christian faith in Europe talks much about monogamy and encourages monasticism in theory, but in practice many tend to go for adultery fear of marriage.
Even Hindusim did not completely abolish polygamy or adultery in practice (data need to be analysed)
Polygamy was widely accepted culture in soceity before Muhammad Nabi for many reasons, even adultery. Islam limited polygamy with reason of doing justice and recommends monogamy only.
Polygamy is the rule of exception for anyone to meet many situations of life.
Example : –
– Situations of Supporting of widowers
– Situations of supporting surplus woman
– Situations of resolving love preferences and conflicts
– Situations of more sexual need of any individual who should not go for adultery which will create illegal children
– Leaders go for more marriage to strengthen the bond between states
– Medical, child birth reasons many
The above are part of natuaral social demands which can be legalized ,nothing do with Islam, even if you think logically. Islam mainly talks conditions of doing justice in such cases and ensuring legal rights of children and legal , social support for woman who accepts polygamy in a situation. Even modern thinkers like you do not have answer for such practical situations. If you agree this reason of Polygamy in principle we will talk about polyandary. I told islam recommends only monogamy but do not stop polygamy as a special situation..Even if we agree a population of 1100 woman per 1000 man..There is a 10% max possibility only. But if you study the data polygamy is 2% in all soceity in practice, Islam legalized this. You all guys still thinking this subject because still your mind desire it.
You think of a sitaution, I make a statement about me and I am truthful that statement.
But you make a statement about you or your religion, you are not truthful in practice..
Islam legalizes the conflict for this marginal percentage of people, liberalizes the marriage with agreements and strict divine conditions, adultery , illegal relations strictly discourgaed.
@shaikh,
>> May be your religion accepts polyandry. But in case of Islam “NO”
Thats why we reject the hypocrite religion.
>>You interpret the above your own statement for the case of polyandry.
I gave those statements to indicate morality is not same in every country and it changes with time.
>> Even Hindusim did not completely abolish polygamy or adultery in practice
Thats why we are still following hinduism. Hindu code of conducts is just a best practices guide, if you break you may suffer( not in eternal hell for ever).
>>But if you study the data polygamy is 2% in all soceity in practice, Islam legalized this.
It is 2% because of law of demand and supply.
If practice is really the criteria then legalize adultery and homosexual.
>>You all guys still thinking this subject because still your mind desire it.
Not at all, It came to discussion becuase you raised it and refused to accept the hypocracy of islamic code of conducts(supporting polygamy but not supporting polyandry).
>>But you make a statement about you or your religion, you are not truthful in practice..
Morality, cleanliness and code of conducts are secondary in hinduism. The main aim of hinduism is to show the imperishable nature of atma and to point to the natural state of samadhi which is sat-chit-ananda.
religion is personal and to be followed at the individual level. At the social level hindus still follow monogamy, though deviants are not punished by putting the persons to death.
Arre baba, I understand that you propose polygamy as a cure for cases of wife swapping and adultery, understood. Polygamy cures the problem as far as males are concerned, but what happens to the females? You should know that some women may also be promiscuous in nature, what do you have in store for them, stoning to death? How logical is this? And do woman thinkers, sociologists, legal experts, etc approve of this for the women folk?
@SDC
How suddenly you have come? many of your friends boring with same question of polygamy to blame islam. But Still I have reserved my question on you on what Veda says, which you have not yet answered. This means Veda do not have any clarity on this subject whether good or bad or You do not have knowledge on Veda about this subject.
There is a famous comedy in cinema about two friends who will go to bar. Both will be friendly before game starts, both will decide to mix their wines. They will mix also, but when play goes both will get conflict and one will demand to give the part of wine he mixed in a single glass…Even scientists or chemists or legal experts can not provide justice to both of them how to separate their wines.
Even two people do not bother this situation children will bother , will have problem of sharing of fathers
Even if a woman agrees to bear child for many in sometime, still it is a trouble and will lead of medical diseases..
In case of conflict it is good for a woman to divorce and go for a new marriage which suits her.Islam do not agree Polyandary. Also punishment for adultery same for man and woman, equal for all when it is proved
You seemed to miss the point. Why will men commit adultery when they can marry more than once and also avail of sex slaves?
Women can go for divorce, you mean to say khula. Well, that is a divorce on the terms of the husband and definitely not of the wife.
Vedas only propose monogamy.
“Polygamy is the rule of exception for anyone to meet many situations of life.
Example : –
– Situations of Supporting of widowers
– Situations of supporting surplus woman
– Situations of resolving love preferences and conflicts
– Situations of more sexual need of any individual who should not go for adultery which will create illegal children
– Leaders go for more marriage to strengthen the bond between states
– Medical, child birth reasons many”
What happens in case of surplus men, surplus widowers (I think you actually meant widows and not widowers in your comment), in cases of sexual needs of promiscuous women who do not wish to commit adultery and hence not create illegal children, powerful women who can support more than 1 man, and also for medical, child birth reasons (because men can be impotent, or not sterile), etc.
Shaikh, I do not blame you for the viewpoints you have expressed on polygamy. This is called conditioning. Let us forget religion and scriptures and wars and geographies and societies. Let us deal with human emotions. Would you, hypothetically, as an individual, be comfortable if your wife had multiple husbands, chose when / whom to have sex with and how many babies she may have with which husband? If you find this idea to be appealing, I’d say, you are at the point of no return, where conditioning is concerned. But if you, even for a moment, find the above idea hard to accept, why do you expect any woman to live the scum called polygamy.
Even if one were the richest man on earth, he can never keep the emotional side of things on an even keel, across say 2 wives (forget the multiples of 2). So one of the women is always going to be emotionally cheated. Is it her fault that the woman that feels let down is less beautiful or that her hubby does not get turned on enough by her or that her hubby spends more time with the other women in the house? Women are living beings and they are not some booty that men can flaunt by showing how many he possesses. Unlock your conditioned mentality, please.
By the way when Ghengiz khan unleashed his war machine on Islamic world, the number of men in Persia and central Asia reduced. If you were asked to pass an opinion on women’s sexual desires in the above situation, will you suggest women can be lesbian, as not many men are around to satisfying the women sexually & playing with one’s own clitoris can be boring? If you oppose lesbianism in the above situation, your argument for polygamy falls flat too.
@Appolloreach / KalBairav / SDC / Adolf / Truth Seeker / All
Whoever blames Islam due to the reason of legalizing polygamy and supports Hindusim do not answer the following
1. Why Gods and sub God’s worshiped by Hindu friends are polygamous ? also sexual nature and need is linked to God?
2. Is there any clear instruction Hindu religion support only this kind of sexual behaviour? (Clear defintion needed). Do Hindusim agrees Adultery?
3. Do you all removed polygamy in Hindu soceity in practical ?
Pl give straightforward answer Yes or No..No logical..some kind of bluffs pl
@shaikh:
Heres my take on these.
1. Why Gods and sub God’s worshiped by Hindu friends are polygamous ? also sexual nature and need is linked to God?
Not all Hindu Gods are polygamous. There are some like Ganesh who are bachelors. Note that the ultimate supreme God, Brahman, is completely unattached. The other Gods in the Hindu pantheon are Ishta-Daivatas and why cannot they assume a form in which their devotees wish to see them?
2. Is there any clear instruction Hindu religion support only this kind of sexual behaviour? (Clear defintion needed). Do Hindusim agrees Adultery?
There is no direct straightforward answer to this in Hinduism like in Islam where an adulterer and adultress both receive 100 lashes surrounded by a party of believers. IMO, there is no single objective morality in Hinduism. The Vedas are supreme. From time to time, we have Smriti texts and Puranas and Itihasas that use the Vedic foundations to guide people about right and wrong.
3. Do you all removed polygamy in Hindu soceity in practical ?
I cannot understand your question. But let me venture an answer based on the words that you have used in the question. From (2) there is no single objective morality in Hinduism. As a result, whenever society, after due deliberation decides that incest or paedophilia or polygamy or polyandry is bad, Hindus have no problem reconciling their beliefs with the laws of society.
Others may wish to provide their take on this as well.
Heres a question for you (assuming I answered all of your questions): if I did exactly what old Mo did in 7th century, I would be in jail now. Yes or no?
Shaikh, you are waffling now. During my last response to you, I requested that we look at human emotions instead of scriptures. You have glossed over it. Would you be cosy if your wife stayed with multiple husbands and does a roll call on whom / when she would meet and cuddle up? If you are uncomfortable, why do you expect a woman to accept polygamy, based, on a bunch of reasons derived from male chauvinism?
@Apolloreach,
When you criticise Islam, Quran, Md. Nabi , or muslim using indecent/ inappropriate way of discussing a subject without having any basis or evidence or strong disagreeable logicts,
1. you feel arrogantly you are on high morale
2. You feel whatever your faith which you support is have 100% clarity and way of life.
Why you do not allow us to criticize equally? Then will you answer?
Your way is very simple, you will say I am a beggar, then I need to come and show you my richness.
Do not foul play, which will lead to expose yourself.
I made all the jokers here that by understanding the level of corruptness and non-clarity of Hinduism only we left this faith of our forefathers..in terms of lack of clarity or definition of God, In equality, no vision for human unity, various superstitious belief, many…many….
Here everyone is joking..Hinduism can improve? If Hinduism can improve you better join together and produce a reformed religion..You tell me what are all you have eliminated or added? If you are truthful you need to do this… You publish that religion in your website and get acceptance of all hindu brothers..
If you want to sell your product..then
..you define your product much competitive to customer
…convince that how your product is better than your competitor
..even you tell within you , your product is much better , you claim….nothing wrong…
You keep on arguing a simple concept…
I told 98% of muslims are monogamous as like Hindu brothers…Islam supports monogamy suggests to give justice to woman…in any soceity as naturally min around 2% people will be compelled for polygamy naturally for many reason..which islam legalises….Same amount is common in any soceity which you have not legalized or your legal experts debate…
Polygeny, relation out of marriage agreement free relations, adultery, homosexuality, lesbians are not acceptable to Islam.
If your son sees you with your wife and asks him a wife with childish manner , will you give him?
Your logical arguments are childish nature? A woman will not go for polygamy unless she agrees for some reason, he already accepted..Islam does not force her to go for polygamy…If she prefers no harm for her in polygamy when it will be legalised..This is nothing to do with emotions all you imagine….
– Will you all agree if I use same approach or logic or method or language you try to use on Islam?
(Islam does not allow to use foul languages , hurting languages when a religion is discussed. This basic ethics of Islam will not allow us to answer you)
– What is the basics, defnition of your religion? This is very important for discussion.In case of Islam any position of Islam you need to understand with following steps
a. What quran verse says ?
b. In which context that verse applied by Md. Nabi?
c. How other verses explains the subject verse, what is the limit for understanding?
d. What is acceptable meaning out of all possible meanings of quran?
e. How Md. Nabi and his companions understood quran and in which context?
f. How legal laws are derived by scholars under wholistic view of quran and hadees and how different opinions arrived in different circumstances?
Without considering all these you try to say all the muslims are polygamous (How it is possible even statistically?), all the muslims are killers….You try to push your lies cruelly…
You send me one unequivocal verse from Veda which says “Marry only one”…Do not send indirect meaning ask me to understand..(I can show this in bible or quran)..nothing wrong in Islam if everyone is monogamous? He will be still muslim.. Islam has that legal provision already…
Islam has all the provisions for better, peaceful , co-existence…It is like rose which has in built with thorns..You see the beauty of rose than cursing the thorns which only protects it..
It is easy to prove that this whole website is a lie if you are prepared to accept honestly when you will be defeated..
@shaikh:
If Hinduism can improve you better join together and produce a reformed religion..You tell me what are all you have eliminated or added? If you are truthful you need to do this… You publish that religion in your website and get acceptance of all hindu brothers..If you want to sell your product..then
..you define your product much competitive to cusomer…convince that how your product is better than your competitor..even you tell within you , your product is much better , you claim….nothing wrong…
Only a Momin can come up with stupidity like this. Hey Shaikh, it is not our fault that you think all religions are out to compete with one another. Religion is not a product that you go buy.
Hinduism is pretty well defined. There are numerous articles on agniveer that talk of Hindu philosophy. There are numerous other philosophies that comprise Hinduism out there. Educate yourself and dont expect us to answer all your questions in a Q&A fashion.
It is not really our fault that people are in different stages of the reincarnation cycle and hence are entitled to their own perception of the divine. Although Hinduism is well defined, it is indeed much much MUCH vaster than Abrahamic coutnerparts.
It is not really our fault that 7th century Arabs embarked on a massacring spree world wide so that everybody held the same belief about Allah. Without understanding this, you are simply trying to defend and rationalize all that is in the Quran and all that your prophet did. Let me ask you again: if I did exactly what old Mo did in 7th century, I would be in jail now. Yes or no?
If you find it difficult to criticize Hinduism, we are not to blame. 😉
Now, there are very effective means of reasoning WITHIN Hinduism why one shouldnt engage in adultery or incest or polygamy or polyandry. As I mentioned earlier, it is NOT cut and dried like lashing adulterers 100 times. It has something to do with desire and how as long as there is desire there is duality and attachment to worldly objects. Once one is able to see beyond this duality, once one is able to feel a sense of unity amongst all human beings, at the highest levels of meditation, in the Turiya stage and beyond, one attains unity with Brahman. Incest, polygamy, wanton sex, sex with 9 year old, desire for this, hatred for that, saying “La Ilaha Il Allah” ALL LEAD ONE AWAY FROM BRAHMAN. Unless you, as a Muslim, give up notions of dar al harb and dar al Islam, unless you see beyond the duality of Momin and Kufr, you cannot appreciate the supremely beautiful aspects of Hinduism, however much you keep questioning us.
@KalBhairav/ Appolloreach / Anyone
We debated or discussed a lot, will be debating or someone will be debating with you or some other’s will be debating on the same subject. But everyone will note the following about such people I debate here
Observation 1. In the name of criticisms or emphasizing perception one’s view using foul languages with personal nature will not acceptable to anyone of us . Rules of the game must be agreed….(This website freely allows foul languages, criticism with personal nature than a conceptual nature). Even participants involves in debate not spared. This will expose standard or mental attitude of people here who think they can annihilate the truth of Islam by this mean. Such psychology mainly aimed to disturb a readers psychologically than helping them to review the truth of life positively. This is notorious method of creating confusion in a calm mind by creating suspicion without having any base.
Observation 2. Logical arguments raised here is childish nature . Such logical arguments can be easily invalidated by another logical argument but this will not help to understand the truth in the end. You send list of logical arguments with subject which can be given an alternate logics, which will lead to never ending discussion. Also many logics are used without meaning. Logics may dissect a truth but you have to try to understand truth with valid logics. you assess each logics applied by you. YOUR OWN LOGICS WILL INVALIDATE YOUR OWN STANDARDS WHEN IT WILL BE EQUALLY PREPARED TO APPY ON YOUR STANDARDS (WHATEVER MAY BE)
Observation 3. Many claims or perception not supported with evidence, facts and truth
Observation 4. I am not a scholar of islam to give you verdict on any subject, views , perception here. But I bring to your notice that any islamic verdict must be supported with quranic verses and Hadith in total. Quranic verses and Hadith always have some historic context, background and intention which must be thoroughly understood. You must know language of quran and Hadith before deriving its meaning. there are verses with clear explicit meaning and verses with many implicit multiple meanings. Quran and Hadith always to be understood with people of this knowledge. If you produce a verse or Hadith which says to kill a person, I can show you many verses or Hadiths which says not kill. Killing of anyone not at all permitted as general guidelines, only exceptions has to be understood cautiously with situations.
THERE IS NO SCOPE FOR ANALYSING YOUR CLAIMS / PERCEPTIONS WITH SUCH FACTS OF QURAN / HADITHS / HISTORY OF ISLAM WITH AUNTHETIC PROOF IN THIS WEB.
Observation 5. Quran and Hadith is prescription for life. It is based on truth of life wholistic in nature.
One can get maximum benefit by following the prescriptions and instruction correctly or he can choose his own prescriptions or logics to lead his life for which he is responsible. POINT IS HERE NOTHING TO DEBATE IN ISLAM, IF ONE CHOOSES HE CAN FOLLOW . IT IS WAY OF LIFE OR MATTER OF UNDERSTATNDING. We can only analyze is it prescribed in Islam or not. There is no use in arguing “why it can not be like this?” “What if?” Truth of life is much simpler than how you try to complicate .
Simply I can accept I may not win with silly arguments..Islam gives certain standards, prescriptions, guidelines which needs to be followed correctly. Practice of any muslim or follower can be validated with this standards.
Observation 6. Critics of Islam always hide their standards , guideliness or do not have clarity of their standards. They need to criticize Islam with reference to certain clear standards.
Hinduism Promotes Monasticism ? – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
Hinduism Promotes only Monogamy ? – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
Hindus Practice Polygamy ? – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
Adultery is legal is Hinduism – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
God is one in Hinduism – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
God is many in Hinduism – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
Hindu Dharma advices killing in war – Some Yes / Some No / No comments
Always so many possible standards…
First you all come out and say this is our standard then let us validate islam with the truth you follow. But you float on air always. (this is not ethical)
or When Polygamy is the accepted standard of Islam, it is not ethical to find fault our prophet or any muslims when we say that is our acceptable standard. If it is not acceptable to you, better you do not follow it or ensure your society free from polygamy. When our standard is writing from Right Hand side to Left , You try to argue that writing Left Hand Side to Right is only correct…What is the use involving such arguments
Observation 7 : You always generalize some exception permitted to a permitted level.
Okay.Islam agrees Polygamy. Even statistically more than 97% can be only with single wife considering population of male and female..It means vast majority of muslims already practice monogamy even with simple logic. But this is one of your main cry of your website. Also you try to prove illogically that everyone is muslim because they are compelled..great ideas…you try to brainwash…all the claims are such nature by just visualisation can be rejected. All are lies created with intention which has no supporting evidence..Everyone has the choice of faith and they are very clear…
Observation 8: There are deviations , problems created by some those who say they are muslims.
This was never supported by Quran or Hadith. This can not be example for proving islam is wrong.
Suppose if you say some Mughal kings demolished temple, then you produce evidence, if it is proved it is wrong even as per Islam. Islamic punishments are for muslims only which shows islam do not support activities against truth….
See your words below….
——-Hinduism is pretty well defined. There are numerous articles on agniveer that talk of Hindu philosophy. There are numerous other philosophies that comprise Hinduism out there. Educate yourself and dont expect us to answer all your questions in a Q&A fashion——-
SAME APPLICABLE FOR YOU..DO NOT EXPECT ME TO ANSWER ABOUT ISLAM..YOU REFER AUNTHETIC WEBSITES ALL YOUR QUERIES ARE ALREADY ADDRESSED…DO NOT EXPECT US TO REPEAT IF YOU ARE REALLY SEEKING TRUTH…WE WILL IGNORE IF YOU ARE ONLY WANT TO CREATE CONFUSIONS
—–It is not really our fault that 7th century Arabs embarked on a massacring spree world wide so that everybody held the same belief about Allah. Without understanding this, you are simply trying to defend and rationalize all that is in the Quran and all that your prophet did—–
DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OR SUPPORTING EVIDENCE.?.NO GUESS WORK PL
—-Let me ask you again: if I did exactly what old Mo did in 7th century, I would be in jail now. Yes or no?—– If you find it difficult to criticize Hinduism, we are not to blame—–
YOU ALWAYS MAKE SUCH GENERAL THING/ GUESSES ..NOTHING SPECIFIC..WHAT LEADS TO JAIL..?
READ LIFE OF MUHAMMAD NABI FULLY…WHY UR CORRUPT POLICE OF TODAY HAS TO GO & CATCH HIM..I AM INTRESTED IN SUCH SILLY ARGUMENT..WE SHOULD NOT ENJOY INVOLVING IN SILLY ARGUMENTS THAN FINDING TRUTH
— one attains unity with Brahman—-
AS PER ISLAM NO ONE CAN ATTAIN UNITY WITH BRAHMAN. NO ONE CAN BECOME GOD. CREATOR IS SEPERATE FROM CREATIONS. CREATIONS HAS TO PRODUCE THEMSELVES FOR THEIR EXISTENCE..NOT NEED NOT PRODUCE GODS FOR ITS EXISTENCE…THIS IS THE ONLY FUNDEMENTAL WE NEED TO DISCUSS.
—-you cannot appreciate the supremely beautiful aspects of Hinduism, however much you keep questioning us.——
THIS LOGIC OR EMOTIONS APPLICABLE TO U ALSO..CORE TRUTH IS SAME FOR ALL..REALISING OUR CREATOR.
— I am aware of this fantasy that Momins have about how their religion is the fastest spreading—–
IT IS DATA..HINDUISM IS OLDER IN 1000s OF YEARS, ISLAM IS LATEST..STILL ADHERENTS EXCEEDED..EXCEEDING..IT IS SIMPLE DATA…ISLAM WILL BE LATEST RELIGION BUT WILL BE BIGGER THAN ANY OLD RELIGION THAN IT
—–How fast a religion is spreading is meaningless if on announcing apostasy, one is punishable by death!!!—
YOU DO NOT COMPEL…YOUR PEOPLE IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL..THEY WILL ENTER ISLAM…
—– Brother I want to follow path of Great Mohamad by doing sex with 9 years old girl, Although I will give right of my wife to her as Mohamad did——-
BETTER AVOID PERSONAL..WHEN WE DISCUSS WHY DO YOU BRING YOUR WIFE INTO THE DISCUSSION.EVERY ONE OF YOU DO NOT HAVE SUCH BASIC ETHICS..I CAN NOT REPEAT SUCH LEVEL OF ARGUMENTS..PL NOTE IF A GIRL WHEN SHE HAS ATTAINED “PUBERTY” SHE CAN MARRY ANY ONE WHO LOVES..GIRLS ACHIEVE PUBERTY EVEN IN AGE 9..(ALSO THERE IS A DISCUSSION THAT AGE IS NOT 9 WHEN DIFFERENT HADITHS ARE DERIVED..AGE 9 IS NOT CONFIRMED..BUT MARRIAGE CONTINUED AFTER PUBERTY CONFIRMED..Polygamy is our accepted standard..Questioning wisdom of standard is altogether different. Do not send arguments or logics like Cow eats grass, why not man?
ALREADY SENT EVIDENCE..IN A PRIOR SAME QUESTION. SAME SUBJECT YOU ALL REPEAT LIKE PARROTS WELL TRAINED FOR PARTICULAR INTENTION. pl think to create better understanding with our community not confusions..Never think I will be answering you again, I have given my complete observation and feedback about your website or way of discussions…You think seriouly my words raise only when you have genuine criticism after your validated your queries within you as clearing my observations.. You are well matured..You can find the truth..also it is your duty to search the truth for your goodness. I may answer for only genuine query of yours, will be reading and ignoring all others…Best wishes all to search the truth…I sincerely apologies if have hurt you during our discussion..(definitely I have courage to ask sorry if u r hurt personally). I have not found any valid arguments against quran or Hadith in your website.
@shaikh:
Boy…thats a lot of stuff there…one reason why there probably ought to be a limit on # of words in comments section here. I will not comment on all of it except this:
YOUR PEOPLE IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL..THEY WILL ENTER ISLAM
This is nonsense. I feel really sorry for you that you walk around with this level of delusion, narcissism and conceit in your head. It is precisely BECAUSE of such warped thinking that Islam is the #1 problem in the world today. If you cannot realize this no one can help you. 🙁
@ KalBhairav: Shaikh is a Tamil Muslim that has lost his bearings. Despite the rich Tamil literary works of 4000 Divya Prabandam, Thevaram, Tirupughazh, Tirukural etc, Shaikh, whose ancestors were Tamil Hindus is vomiting stale non-digestible Arabic camel meat here. And he seems to have sold his common sense for a few riyals or dirhams.
@Rushmore
You exposed your team again involving personal research than conceptual reasearch
—-he seems to have sold his common sense for a few riyals or dirhams.—
why you have not assumed me as malayali or bihari, i am happy you have not said me I am a pakistani or bangaladesi..ur mind goes all this fundemental truth…
note..I am grandson of Adam or Hawwa…I do not know what u bluff about tamil…
@shaikh
Why do not u expose me? Why do you think Aadam sex with his daughter Eve? Why do think your ancestor were result of incest & they also practiced incest. Why do you have dirty thinking regarding your ancestors?
@Truthseeker
incest–???
Recent Genetic studies proves we are from same common forefather. I do not want confuse myself to understand how they are interrelated in this age. Do you propose different ancestor theory again how that root came..You think intellectually to remove your paradigm. Do not think much meaner way. This definitely exposes your thinking level. But you have ability think beyond the level of your suspicions
@shaikh
You are fool, you have doubts in Allah’s powers, if Allah can create one pair of Humans in inception why do think he can not create thousand of pair of Man & Woman in the inception of universe. Allah never force anybody to do sex with his mother & sisters. You are Kaffir if you doubts in Allah’s Power.
@Truthseeker,
Your questions or concerns in your mind looks interesting..My simple question is
where is the supporting evidence for your claims in quran or authentic Hadith.
better urself support with that evidence, then I will answer..
This exposes my another observation of claiming some lies without providing any textual evidence
from aunthetic sources. Muslims do not beleive what the way you have raised ? Your famous way is to cry at the end like a baby. Nice boy..enjoying fun with others…
@Shaik
I have full belief in Allah’s justice but not in any book. I do not give much importance to any Book like Kuran & Hadisth. Books can be destroyed but Allah’s knowledge eternal/unchangeable/perfect. Printing books can not be taken seriously & can be corrupted by anyone. Allah is most intelligent, most powerful, most kind & never depends on books. Allah never force anybody to do sex with his mother & sisters. This is most logical.
@shaik
isin’t having sex with his daughter-in-law, Zainab, an incest?
@ Gentlemen
Some few Verses finally will quote for you..(quran answers like this , not indicating on an any specific person but whoever on falsehood(if you are on falsehood) will definitely will understand the message and will think)
But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants (Quran 003.020)
Then how will it be when We shall gather them together on a day about which there is no doubt, and every soul shall be fully paid what it has earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly? (Quran 003.025)
Say: “O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.” If then they turn back, say ye: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will). (Quran 003.064)
O followers of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the falsehood and hide the truth while you know? (Quran 003.071)
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (Quran 003.085)
And be not like those who became divided and disagreed after clear arguments had come to them, and these it is that shall have a grievous chastisement.(Quran 003.105)
Say: “Travel through the earth and see what was the end of those who rejected Truth.” (Quran 006.011)
And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek an opening (to go down) into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up) to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant. (Quran 006.035)
Say: Can ye see yourselves, if the punishment of Allah come upon you or the Hour come upon you, (calling upon other than Allah)? Do ye then call (for help) to any other than Allah? (Answer that) if ye are truthful (Quran 006.040)
Say: O my people! act according to your ability; I too am acting; so you will soon come to know, for whom (of us) will be the (good) end of the abode; surely the unjust shall not be successful. (Quran 006.135)
Thanks for the admin for given chance for “Speak Your Mind” for this casual web browser. Hope my suggestions will be considered with good spirit. Human contradiction and conflicts will go unending each one will assume their relative position in a conflict, in the end what he may achieve will be a question? We may work together only when an environment is created to explore the truth of life.
Almighty God knows.
@ Shaikh, thanks for taking the bait. Why are you guys programmed to fall back on Adam for everything? This was precisely the response I was expecting from you (like many other friends of yours, when the question of their creed or lineage goes). Belief in Adam and common sense cannot go hand in hand. You know why? Before Adam was created by the Biblical God (based on the same chronology), humans were walking all over the earth. So get a life dude.
And if you believe in Adam, was he Caucasian, Indic, black, brown??? And given Adam was a hermaphrodite, why did you God stop creating hermaphrodites in humans?
@Kalbhairav
—–level of delusion , narcissism and conceit in your head. It is precisely BECAUSE of such warped thinking that Islam is the #1 problem in the world today. If you cannot realize this no one can help you–
Even the whole world do not want to be muslim, I personally adhere to Islam , want to be a muslim (submission to my creator). This is what I have convinced within me. It is my right also. You have to learn to respect that before discussing islam with me. Similarly I respect the right of a hindu whatever may be his conviction. Everyone will say whatever he has beautiful, it is in the eyes of beholder, but which is beautiful is relative. Relativeness is always measured with some scales which all we agree. That scale still we need to find or finalise. Until then wait with patience until God judges us and let God say why I was in Islam..I listen to all like who walk in street but do not follow until my intellect decides.
Our creator and our forefathers are same only however we interpret differently. You are also my brother in some clan of some of our forefathers some ages ago. Let us wait until God judges between us, meanwhile pl search our creator who is one to me and you.
When we can understand this we both will not have ——–level of delusion , narcissism and conceit in your head–warped thoughts—I agree with you I have all these..but you have not agreed you also have the same within your head…You think the day we will be before God for judgement
@shaikh
Brother I would like to know, Is it compulsory for Muslime :
1.To believe in incest?
2. To believe Allah was sitting idly on his throne before this creation.
3. To believe Allah is limited to just his throne on 7th sky.
4. To believe Allah has form because he sits on his throne & he had made Aadam with his both hands.
5. To bow head before stone Kaba,.
6. To do sex with 9 years old girl.
7. To follow rituals like go around Kaba & kissing Kaba.
8. To believe Allah needs to speak to create the universe.
9. To believe Allah is thankful of Mohmad.
10. To believe in foreigners.
“You have to learn to respect that before discussing islam with me. Similarly I respect the right of a hindu whatever may be his conviction.”
That is where the crux of the problem is. When I say I am a hindu and will follow the hindu rituals, then I am told by some idiot that what I do is wrong and that I will land up in hell and burn in its fire for eternity. I am also threatened by being declared a kafir and therefore fit to be killed.
“Until then wait with patience until God judges us and let God say why I was in Islam”
Which God are you talking of? The “limited” allah of islam or the unlimited “Paramatma” of SD. Well, in our case, our actions will judge our destiny. We reap the fruits of our labor, good or bad. The concept of God in SD is not limited by any 1 book. Different scholars have interpreted it in different ways.
@ Gentlemen
If you want to improve your website
1. Avoid foul languages , criticism with personal nature, meaningless logics, illogical , silly, childish arguments, improve the standard and way of writings ( A Muslim has to discuss the religion only in a correct and beautiful way, such an environment needed)
2. (you can always criticize anything) but Know better on what you criticize, provide criticism with defined manner supported with authentic texts with correct understanding with wholistic manner with right context and background.( There is no meaning about discussing islam with lies and false/ unauthentic in formations). THIS IS THE HONEST REASON I AVOID ANSWERING ANY SPECIFIC CRITICISM WHICH IS OBSERVED BUILT ON LIES. ALSO CRITICS DO NOT HAVE INCLINATION TO PROVIDE AUNTHETIC DATA OR READY TO ACCEPT AUNTHETIC DATA OR NOT SURE WILL ACCEPT EVEN AFTER AUNTHETIC DATA GIVEN TO THEM) When the authentic information related to religion is analyzed most of the misconception will be solved. How can you discuss Physics without knowing Physics?
3. Provide sufficient facts , correct historical information and proven data from correct source than assumptions / guesses / suspicion / prejudices/ false inferences ( a doctor may kill a patient if wrong data , facts on patient given to him)
4. You explain very clearly what is the standard you have and against which you are criticizing Islam (where you stand before you shoot also very important otherwise you will be in error). Have a scale before you measure anything.
5. Each religion or theory has certain assumptions (belief) based on which other pillars are found.
Even science has certain hypothesis over above theories are built. No one can produce evidence or answer for such assumptions / beleif. we can only understand beleif correctly or understand basic beleif system is weak or strong, agreeable to one or disagrreeable, good for humanity or not, system of justice or system of unjustice….etc.,
6.. You always propose a best way other than islam prescribes (This will help muslims like me to understand what best you have)..Suppose we call you to Islam, it is inviting towards us, but you say leave always (Is it mean one has to come out of his home and stay in street)..We say come to us we will provide briyani atleast you must be able to say come to us we will provide you Veg Pulav or Curd rice.What you sell or what you support is never clear to us. (Even if you prove you are correct one may not know where to go? what to adhere?)
7.. You never produce right arguments in right way but expect muslims to change. You try to say some one is prostitute with your inner guesses and expect her to come out to prove her that she is chaste.( we do not know where you have learned such tricks)
8. Message of Quran or Hadith are for for your wellbeing only . It is all you criticize quran or Hadith..( I do not have any personal views unless it is again supported or inline with Quran- Hadith)..billions of muslims will say this only when you approach..
9, Pl read quran and Aunthetic Hadith and authentic studies of scholars of islam which is only answer for whatever your criticisms and however way pointed out. Quran will make its followers to meet you in peace, in agreement or in defense depends on the background and situation around the world. Quran already challenges you conceptually or in confrontation. (Answer is with time only) Even big empires in different centuries challenged Quran and history recorded their failure. This is my observation after keen study with facts . (But note even muslims ,followers, as human will fail due to their ignorance or mitakes or errors , quran still challanges , will be challenging,its followers ever widening )
10. I sincerely recommend you to challenge with Allah and His words (Quran)..(spare me pl, I have given improvement feedback for you for betterment of your web asa just a casual web browser). It is not my nature to criticize someone without any base for what he has chosen for himself..each one knows what he is,His God also knows him..Thanks for all gentlemen for your nice time, we have a lot of good things to do.
11. It is not advisable for any muslim participants here to involve or participate in similar dialogues to ignore if the above few guidelines are not followed by critics. (they will do injustice to do something). Answering any critics will be meaningless if firm ground on truth is not established before debate.
12. Always counter arguments / counter attacks / counter logics will not help unless each one will be prepared to correct themselves.
It is upto you to introspect yourself
@ Shaikh: More waffling and a lengthy post? I am repeating my question. Would you be cosy if your wife stayed with multiple husbands and does a roll call on whom / when she would meet and cuddle up? If you are uncomfortable, why do you expect a woman to accept polygamy, based, on a bunch of reasons derived from male chauvinism?
You made a claim about monasticism in Hinduism and I asked you for evidence. I am still waiting. You lied about apostasy in Islam and I provided you with evidences from sahih Hadiths that support death penalty for leaving Islam. You went cold. Why don’t you deal with specifics instead of wasting keystrokes?
hey Mr. Apollo. What happened? I was waiting for you on IHI website? U ran away. Everything ok?I was thinking that you are busy but i m constantly seeing your comments here …
http://islamhinduism.com/hinduism/analysis/76-vedas-and-peace#pc_1178
@Anti Apollo
this site is banned here because it is anti-indian site which is denigrating Indian Legends, culture, languages & Veda. If you are Indian I request you, please dont visit anti-Indian site. I also would like to join your website if Admin. of this site will declare publicly that My Great beloved prophet Mohmad never did sex with any child of 9 years nor he made any woman sex slaves. & Mohamad was man of high morals.
Please ask to Write this headline on the above on website.
& Give me answer of them link given below before I also come on the website to debate with you
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-14662
Dhanyawad.
@Anti Apollo
Someone is there waiting for you. http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
Got guts???
Buddy AA, you can continue to wait at IHI, if you have nothing better to do. I don’t recall asking you to wait there, for me, in the first place.
@Anti Apollo
Just splash the news on your blog that you defeated AR just like you defeated Agniveer, Satyagni, Ali Sina, Anwar Shaikh and thousands of apostates of Islam who are tearing Jihadism apart like anything nowadays…. Your visitors will feel like heaven.
Once you roll the ticker of your victory over AR on your site, you will start getting greetings from fellow Madarsa alumni who will join you in celebrations of defeating AR without getting even hint what he wrote about Vedas there 🙂
Brother Aatish- Ali Sina, Wafa Sultan etc bring out a paradox in the mindset of many of Zakir Naik’s fans. For everything else that is being said against non-Islamic faiths , their standard line is ” Look at what is being said and not who is saying it” but the moment the someone is critiquing Islam, the what and who above becomes useless. They will come up with a standard set of responses – do you know if Ali Sina was ever a Muslim (he is just a user id), Wafa Sultan is a paid Jewish agent or that someone has been planted by CIA, Mossad and RAW to say these things etc etc . The truth is unlike in the case of Hinduism or even in the case of Xtianity, friends of Zakir Naik never look themselves in the mirror. Muslims, especially the fans of ZN, will never critique their own beliefs and teachings because they believe that everything in the book is beyond critical analysis.
They can’t brother, their version of Quran is final word of god.
They got only two options:
1) Accept it.
OR
2) Reject it.
They can’t reform it.
@shaikh
>>Observation 1.
Foul language should be avoided, but we must not hesitate to call a person who robbed as robber, a paedophile as peadophile, a warlord who sold and bought slaves as slave trader.
>>Observation 2.
May be your arguments are childish as well.
>>Observation 3.
Counter such arguments at the place where they ar raised, no need to label every one.
>>Observation 4.Quranic verses and Hadith always have some historic context,background and intention which must be thoroughly understood.
Thanks for accepting that, your brothers claim that quran should always be followed.
>> I can show you many verses or Hadiths which says not kill.Killing of anyone not at all permitted as general guidelines, only exceptions has to be understood cautiously with situations.
Ofcourse there are innumerable verses in quran both justifying and opposing quran.
But the emphasis should be more on what is followed by general masses while destroying temples and attacking kafirs in bangladesh and pakistan.
>>Observation 5. Quran and Hadith is prescription for life. It is based on truth of life wholistic in nature.
No it is a prescription toi hell on earth. It bans music
A tax paying law abiding atheist can live a better life than all religions. I dont understand what truth you are talking about.
>>Truth of life is much simpler than how you try to complicate .
Could you please tell us what is “truth” you are talking about.
Truth is simple god loves all who dont harm other creatures, he doesnt hate someone just because that person did not believe in god.
>>Simply I can accept I may not win with silly arguments..
Tell that you do not have sufficient arguments to win.
>>Islam gives certain standards, prescriptions, guidelines which needs to be followed correctly. Practice of any muslim or follower can be validated with this standards.
Not clear standards. Please let me know whether i can do a temporary marriage i.e marriage for an hour when i visit a prostitute according to islam
>>Observation 6. Critics of Islam always hide their standards , guideliness or do not have clarity of their standards. They need to criticize Islam with reference to certain clear standards.
Enumerating standards is useles. If we give standards for evertything we will loose the basic freedom.
For ex music in islam – http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/5000
>> First you all come out and say this is our standard then let us validate islam with the truth you follow. But you float on air always. (this is not ethical)
There is nothing called truth. truth or false is only valid in axiomatic framework.
Standards vary with country nor is it logical to enumerate all rules.
The rule of hinduism is ahimsa.
Exceptions are for others who cannot adhere to the rule, afterall god is forgiving and gives multiple chances.
>>When our standard is writing from Right Hand side to Left , You try to argue that writing Left Hand Side to Right is only correct.
The attack is on the unequal treatment and discrimination against some, not on polygamy.
please dont argue with illogical arguments(as stated by yourself)
>>Observation 7 : You always generalize some exception permitted to a permitted level.
Why is exception of homosexuality not permitted while permitting polygamy?
When islam finds fault with christians just becuase they called jesus as son of god, why cant we do criticize islam in the same way?
>>Also you try to prove illogically that everyone is muslim because they are compelled..great ideas you try to brainwash all the claims are such nature by just visualisation can be rejected. All are lies created with intention which has no supporting evidence..Everyone has the choice of faith and they are very clear.
Remove apostacy and allow propogation of religion in islamic countries, then put forward this argument.
>>Observation 8: There are deviations , problems created by some those who say they are muslims.This was never supported by Quran or Hadith. This can not be example for proving islam is wrong.
When majority are like that we have every right to believe. Actions(Stats) speak louder than words.
Can you explain how hindu/budhist population is decreasing in bangladesh?
>>Best wishes all to search the truth
Truth is not apart from you, better not say that you found truth in any islamic country, you will meet the same end as mansoor al-hallaj.
>> I have not found any valid arguments against quran or Hadith in your website.
Let me know why music is not permitted in islam and how angels do not come to houses with black dogs.
Gentlemen, Really I am sorry to say that in this whole website, you have complete misconceptions , thoughts with error, baseless imaginations, evidence less suspicions , your whims and desires, mixed feelings, Inappropriate approaches…(at the end you will do injustice to yourself mainly)
This is all mainly related to your mind set, perceptions , prejudices and ignorance, needs keen introspection within you.
You will understand always that you can never win Allah (Your creator) and You cannot stop dheen of Allah prevailing .
@shaikh
Welcome, now I think you will response of my query:-
1. Why should I believe in a book like Kuran which proves Allah was sitting idly before this creation?
2. Why should I believe Allah has a form as per Kuran he had made Aadam & Eve with his/her both hands?
3. Why should I believe Allah can not send his Kalma in the inception of universe?
4. Why should I believe in a books which says Allah can not create thousand of Men & Women in the inception of universe & force for incest?
5. Why Should I believe Allah is a limited entity-limited to his throne?
6. Why Should I believe great Mohamad was pedopholia- had sex with a child?
7. Why should I believe Great Mohamad would have made woman sex slaves?
@TS
brother, he will not going to respond you.
Instead, he will charge you for spreading lies, misinterpreting the verse, quoting out-of-context, using foul language blah blah and crap like that.
And don’t bother to back your claim with quarnic verses coz he will not going to refer it anyway. It will be a waste of your time.
BENGAL AND ASSAM STUDENTS UNION should AGGRESSIVELY start movement to kick out bangladeshi muslims from assam and bengal and INDIAN MUSLIMS IF THEY COME IN BETWEEN FOR THE SUPPORT OF BANGLADESHI ILLEGAL MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS AND THREATEN US WE SHOULD ALSO KICK THEM OUT OF ASSAM AND BENGAL TO BANGLADESH or use GODHRA OR NELLIE MASSACRE TO TEACH THEM A LESSON.
IF WE SIT QUIETLY NOBODY CAN SAVE US FROM CLEAR EXTINCTION AND OUR FATE WILL LIKE KASHMIRI PANDITS WITH NO LAND OR STATE.
@shravak
—he will charge you for spreading lies, misinterpreting the verse, quoting out-of-context, using foul language blah blah and crap like that—-
What else you are doing dears, all are lies, half truths, misunderstandings,misinterpreting the verse, quoting out-of-context, using foul language blah blah and crap ….?
You need more and more understanding of quran, islam, Hadith, Pl take more effort in this direction..
I will definitely if you have genuine doubts..otherwise it is waste of time to reply you..
TS raised 7 points which are all from Hinduism or with Hindusitic mind , not supported with islamic understanding..Pl start giving supporting evidence with aunthenticity for each criticism then easily you will get answer..also provide alternative best method against islamic stand with evidence of Hindu Vedas or mythologies..Why you never agree this methodology?
for example TS says
.—Why should I believe in a book like Kuran which proves Allah was sitting idly before this creation?
but he never supported this with quran or aunthetic Hadith…
also he never suppoted with what Veda says on this…
why you all waste your own time and others time by simply using confusing Hattori ninja techniques
Hence proved….
sry..shud b here
why you all waste your own time and others time by simply using confusing Hattori ninja techniques”
hey… there is only one ninja here and thats me.. :-p
:for example TS says
.—Why should I believe in a book like Kuran which proves Allah was sitting idly before this creation?”
Could you tell me shaikh what Allah was doing before creation? After all he decided one day to create the world and living beings to worship him. So we have: infinty…>….>…time…>….>…. !!! “Allah decides creation” . Doesnt this point out that God was doing nothing for an INFINITE period of time before creation? Note that I am pointing out to the WHIMSICAL nature of Allah..something not characteristic to Supreme being that we can intrinsically feel.
Hindu concept is different: creation..maintenance..dissolution. This cycle repeats endlessly & God manages it perfectly.
How do you all take reference from Quran or Hadith for your claim that Allah did not do any thing before our creation? This is my simple question. Why do you imagine on your own? If you imagine you need to answer? If you show some texts from quran or Hadith we can answer?..Don’t you understand this basic before you ask on Islam…Why muslims have to answer for your baseless imaginations because of your corrupted minds.
You show texts from Quran or Hadith then we will answer. Do not imagine or lie about Allah becoz of your imaginations..Muslims are not supposed to imagine about Allah (GOd) unless it is supported by quran or Hadith?
Pl understand this beleif structure
@shaikh
If we are wrong you can correct us. What was Allah doing before this universe creation?
@TS,
Pleassee, do not play again
the following is your word or claim or imagination…”Allah sitting idle before creation”
—What was Allah doing before this universe creation?—-
Why do you raise a doubt if you can not find references in quran (words of Allah) or Hadees , auntheticated prophetic tradition?
Even if I give answer you I need to produce it from Quran or Hadith only…
Better you turn the pages of quran or Hadith and give me some reference then we will discuss on this matter..Same is applicable for any other imagination you have…
If you find answer in quran or Hadith pl tell me what Vedas or your own standards tells about the same subject.. This will help me to analyse..I am in listening mode..want supporting evidence from you ..for all the imaginations of this great website….If you are truthful pl have this approach
first we will take this imagination on top priority
@Shaik/Other Scholar/ & All Must Read to know
What was Allah doing before universe creation?
Vedic Response:-
The creation is eternal and automatic. There is no date of creation of the following: (A) Almighty Allah who is alive, immortal, formless, creates, nurses and destroys the universe. He never indulges in any maya, mahamaya, illusion and deeds (good or bad. Yajurveda Mantra 40/8 and Yog shastra Sutra 1/26 also refer)
(B) Soul: Soul is alive, the purest, away from sins etc. but illusion covers the soul due to which soul forgets his original form and hence remains in sorrows, problems etc.
C) Prakriti: Non-alive and has three qualities. i.e., Raj, tam, Satva. At a proper time, the power of God acts in prakriti and the universe is created. So the creation is eternal and automatic.
Raj, Tam and Satva are the three qualities of prakriti. When the said gunnas remain idle dormant i.e., do not work, then combination of these three gunnas(qualities) in dormant stage is called prakriti and this time is called “final destruction” of the universe. When an appropriate time comes, the creation is to be started again. Then the power of Allah works in the above three gunnas i.e., in the prakriti and immediately the creation starts. Rajo gunn is a sign of sensuousness etc., Tamo gunn signifies laziness and sato gunn signifies ego, pride. Our human body is also made of the said three gunnas.
Vedas tell that there are three eternal/immortal matters- first: Almighty Allah, second: souls, third: prakriti. Almighty God creates, nurses and destroys the universe and again creates it. The said process of creation is eternal/immortal/everlasting. Almighty God creates the universe from prakriti. When the raj, tam and satva gunnas of prakriti remain idle (dormant condition/inactive) then creation does not take place. At an appropriate time, a power of Almighty God acts in prakriti (i.e., in Raj, tam and satva gunnas). Immediately the process of creation starts and the first matter of prakriti is made which is called –Mahat i.e., mind; from Mahat- ahankar is made, from ahankar panch (5) tan matrayein, from panch (5) tanmatrayein, panch (5) mahabhoot are created. From panch mahabhoot, the entire matter of universe i.e., Sun, Moon air, water , our bodies, bodies of other living beings etc., are created. The whole creation is thus created from prakriti and remains still (in active) like a statue. This creation is called non-sexual creation. In the said creation, the young human bodies are created which are neither old nor babies. Then by the power of Allah, in the said bodies, breathing system (prann vaayu) starts operating. At last, God enters into the universe and immediately all the humans and other living beings become alive and start functioning. Similarly, the non-alive matters like Sun, moon, earth, air, water etc., start their respective functions.
Creation, Science, worldly matters etc., is not possible until the same is created by someone.
Rigveda mantra 10/129/ 1-6 throw light about creation that at that time, there was nothing and no living beings did exist. So there was no learned acharya who could give the knowledge to the newly created living beings like parents who educate the children to make them able to speak language and to know about the matters like crow, animals, chapati, ghee, sun, moon i.e., all matters of the world. See, if a newly born baby is managed to live in dense jungle and nursed well but he is not given education about the worldly matters etc. i.e., mathematics, science, animals, sun, moon etc., then even at the young age of 20-25, 30 years, he will not be able to speak any language and when he will be brought out of the cave of dense jungle and will be asked about the sun, moon, animals, birds before him, then he will not be able to reply because he was not given the said knowledge.
When we see towards sun, moon, air, space, human body etc. It is clearly understood that the said creation has not been made by any human being but Almighty God, from whom the knowledge of four Vedas emanates. In Vedas, the knowledge right from straw to Brahma has been mentioned. So in the beginning of non-sexual earth, the Vedas originated in the heart of four rishis: Agni, Vaayu, Aditya and Angira, and from the rishis the knowledge of science, deeds and worship along with every matter is being given to the public by which the public became educated scientist and wrote books, etc.
In Vedas as well as in fourth chapter of Yog Shastras of Rishi Patanjali, it is mentioned that those who do not believe in God are provided more and more facilities by nature and such people get spoiled, etc.
On the contrary those who worship God, they naturally try to kill their desires and accordingly under the law, nature, help them to follow the true path to realize the God.
It is also pertinent to mention here that in Vedas, there is no mention of avtarwad or any proper noun, please. Vedas do not even contain any story or past, present or future life of anyone. Vedas contain knowledge i.e., entire science, form of deeds/duties and worship of God. Actually Vedas give knowledge right from straw to Brahma (God) of entire universe.
All four Vedas tell to worship a formless, Almighty, omnipresent, omniscient God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe. God was one, is one and shall ever remain one. He is unchangeable, unchallengeable and beyond description. He has unlimited qualities and thus unlimited names but is one. Because He is Almighty and needs no help of anyone to create, nurse and destroy the universe therefore no need to take avtar.
@TS
Nice Vedic explanation about creator and creation.
Contradition 1 : My humble question is where is the word “Allah” in Vedas? Reference pl
— Vedas tell to worship a formless, Almighty, omnipresent, omniscient God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe. God was one, is one and shall ever remain one–
Contradiction 2 : formless God – then how did you discover various forms for the worship of God ?
Contradiction 3 : Almighty – then why God did not create soul and prakriti?
— He is Almighty and needs no help of anyone to create, nurse and destroy the universe therefore no need to take avtar—-
Contradiction 4 : Then how did you discover the concept of “Avatar” like Rama, Krishna?
—-The creation is eternal and automatic—–
Contradiction 5 : If creation is eternal and automatic, then what is the work of God? creations existed before God or God before creations? or simultaneous existence ?
—-Vedas tell that there are three eternal/immortal matters- first: Almighty Allah, second: souls, third: prakriti—–
Contraction 6 : Three existence…? Almighty Allah (where is quoted like thus in vedas? also one existence does not have power over other..what is the interaction between these three existence?
—-and this time is called “final destruction” of the universe. When an appropriate time comes, the creation is to be started again—-
Contradiction 7 : How suddenly God destroys eternal matters like soul and Prakriti?
—-At last, God enters into the universe and immediately all the humans and other living beings become alive and start functioning—–
Contradiction 8: Where from God enters? How God enters into human?
—Similarly, the non-alive matters like Sun, moon, earth, air, water etc., start their respective functions—
Contradiction 9 : What is alive and not alive means as per Veda? because God entered into all his creations as per Vedas then these creations are not alive?
finally What Vedic God was doing before creation?
Also you have not produced any single proof from quran that God was “sitting idle” from quran..(which is now proved as your imagination or misconception or lie)
@Shaik
Contradition 1 : My humble question is where is the word “Allah” in Vedas? Reference pl______
Allah/God/Almighty/Khuda/Rahamn are names given by Human to God who is Almighty, formless, hole less and can not be converted into any part, sinless, absolute, perfect, omnipresent, omniscient, knows thoughts of every soul, who is eternal/beyond death and birth/has no father, mother etc.,
______Contradiction 2 : formless God – then how did you discover various forms for the worship of God –
They are all man made. Like bowing head before stones, go around Kaba & Mandir /Masjid etc, kissing the stones, grave worship etc. Reason :- ignorance of Veda, They are not aware with vedic philosophy. By spreading Vedic knowledge we can eradicate worship of stone like bowing head before stone & following rituals & superstitions etc.
Now if got understand I come to next…..
@TS,
Pl try to be legal, where you got words Allah, Rahman in YOUR VEDAS? Pl understand my basic question, you have right to use the word Allah (not without knowing defnition of Allah)..do you think brhman and Allah is same…? Where you found word Allah in your Veda, Pl ask Veda experts..if you do not know my question…If I say Aishwarya Rai is a male , how will you check ? Have some common sense on my question?
If you understand this we will move forward…say who is your God as per Veda, my God is Allah..like this you give a clear answer
@shaikh
I have already said in Veda nowhere word Allah & Rahman found.The name like Ram, Allah, Khuda, Waheguru, Krishna, God are given by human as per attributes of supreme entity. I do not meaning of all. But I know Few:
Rahaman: Who is merciful
Ram : Who is everywhere, unlimited
Krishna : Who is most attractive
& Name is just a way to concentrate on God. As we need a boat to cross the river but boat is not our destination. Same as the name. Name assist us to realize the God. I said here roughly & may be corrected. Further I advise if you are true seeker of truth, you can visit here to know & understand vedic philosophy & go though Q &A asked by different people. Send me your response.
http://vedmandir.com/
———-My humble question is where is the word “Allah” in Vedas?——–
why would allah come in vedas? just to make you understand TS used allah to mean same as the only god of universe! allah is nowhere written in vedas!! allah term coined by mohammad..
———- formless God – then how did you discover various forms for the worship of God ?—–
who discovered? vedas say to worship only formless god and none else!
some people created idols and worshipped them out of ignorance of vedas in a similar manner as the muslims started worshiping graves now!!
tell me how did muslims started worshiping graves??
———-Almighty – then why God did not create soul and prakriti?———
god is almighty but that does not means he can do anything! god cannot kill himself, create another god,he cannot make a stone which is so heay that he himself may not lift !
so almighty means to do his jobs He does not require help of anyone!
souls , prakriti and god are three immortals present fromever and will be there forever!
————-Then how did you discover the concept of “Avatar” like Rama, Krishna?———
again, people out of their ignorance of vedas or because of the high respect to great people as shri rama or shri krishna termed them as god.. and slowly out of ignorance call them god or avatar!
vedas deny any avatar possibility!
———– If creation is eternal and automatic, then what is the work of God? creations existed before God or God before creations? or simultaneous existence ?————
no who said creation is automatic? it is eternal .
god is the doer.
he is the creator, manager and destructor! he creates the world manages it then ends it then creates it again!
there is no point of before creation or before god in vedic ideology for you must know the concept of infinity…the cycle of creation, managing , then destruction again creation is from infinity till infinity…. there was never a time when god was not there or when the souls and prakriti was not there!
god is the controller of souls and prakriti , but he is not the creator of soul and prakriti.
but according to quran this is first and last creation…. but god is present from infinity… then what was god doing before creation?
—————-also one existence does not have power over other..what is the interaction between these three existence?——
god has power over the both prakriti and souls. god is manager of both of these. but remember neither god is creator of these and nor can god destroy these! the trio of god,prakriti and souls iss from ever …and interaction is that god presides over souls and prakriti …
——————- How suddenly God destroys eternal matters like soul and Prakriti?———–
god cannot destroy any of them. neither soul nor prakriti.
god will just end this world but matter(prakriti ) will remain as it is but will go in its core form… as you know “matter cannot be created nor destroyed”…
—————— Where from God enters? How God enters into human?———
god is present in every atom of universe and so he is present in every body … there is no point that god has to enter from one end and come out of other! this question is baseless!
—————–What is alive and not alive means as per Veda? —————–
god is alive ….. souls are alie…… prakriti is non-alive.
——————because God entered into all his creations as per Vedas then these creations are not alive?————
if you site in a wooden box … then since you are alive does that wood also becomes alive??
strange questions you pose!
————–Also you have not produced any single proof from quran that God was “sitting idle” from quran..(which is now proved as your imagination or misconception or lie)———–
we are asking you that since god is from infinity.. agree?
while earth has been created only a few period back(as compared to presence of allah since infinity)… agree?
so what was allah doing before that??
you are to answer that …
@Krishna Arya,
Nice, as per your words there are a lot of scope to define correct present form of Hinduism practiced in India. First pl do that then we will discuss on Islam and how your defined Hinduism is better than Islam.But you must agree why atleast we prefer to move towards islam from Hinduism. Thanks.Somewhere we will converge..Where that almighty God will decide..I have a lot to ask you, but reserve this comment now..We have to discuss a lot on Almighty, Omnipresence, eternity of soul, eternity of Prakriti, limits of how..and so many loopholes about God you have generated in your words..Hope you will agree why we disagree idols, avatar..also Islam disagrees grave worship which is only ignorant muslims practices in india , they have not yet completed moved from Hinduism
this is just stupidity and your taqiya…
———– Islam disagrees grave worship which is only ignorant muslims practices———
similarly vedas disagrees idol worship which only ignorant indians practice!
also ,
just in 1400 years islam developed a grave worship… so why the same thing is not possible in hinduism which is there since inception of civilization??
————–First pl do that then we will discuss on Islam———–
so why doesn’t all islamic schools also stop promoting islam unless they may stop every muslim from practicing grave worship, and they may join the sects of islam as wahabi, sunni,shia ,… and other 70++ sects……….. ????????
————- so many loopholes about God you have generated in your words.———
why not ask them??? dont keep doubts to yourself…. in vedic philosophy ask questions to prosper ahead on way of realization!! 🙂
it is not like islam where you told to dumb up your minds and blindly believe in things as moon split in two parts!! lol! 😀
Even before Mohamed Nabi (PBUH) arabs used the word “Allah” to denote creator of everything. Allah was never conceived by arabs prior to islam in any idol or any symbol form. Arabs already had known the word “Allah”, Jews had known the word “Allah” (Isarel -“isra” “el” – help of el or Allah) – Christian speaking arabs also call their supreme God as Allah only, but they add that Jesus is “special” son of Allah (without having a wife). Mohamed Nabi told his people to abandon worshipping of various idols, great, noble people and told people to unite worship “Allah ONLY” , Allah is the God already everyone agreed as the supreme God even before Mohamed Nabi
2. Common arabs beleived idols, preists, great people are mediators between common people and God. Md Nabi denied this method or process of mediation only which enabled to denote idols, preists and great as the son or daughter or closest people of God. (Making Shirk)
3. So in general everyone muslims, jews , christians, idol worshippers of arabs agree that Allah is the creator and others are creations of Allah..Muslims and Jews denies Allah sharing divinity to his creations, christians given special sanction to Jesus which is tottaly denied by Jews, even they disagreed Jesus as a prophet..Idol worshipping arabs considered everything shares divinity of Allah at a different level which Mohamed Nabi disbeleived. This is the basic triangle of conflict.
4. But God in Hindu Vedas seems different in name and description as per the description of brother TS and Arya. I do not consider justification using name Allah in such case which will confuse basic divinity concept of Semitic and Hindu religion. We may analyse where all both Gods coincides.
5. Formless God – Jewism, Christianity, Islam never says God is formless – God is with much beautiful form. Islam says the form of God never can be compared with any of his creations, we can not see in this world but we can see in next world as per God’s will.But Vedic God is formless, it is something similar to energy theory in science. As per Islam energy also created by Allah
6. Almighty – I do not see the word almighty in Quran as per my knowledge. Allah knows best (if anyone show I will change my opinion”) I often refer as “Alaa Kulli sayyin Katheer” – Allah has power over everything- but I do not know whether it is same as almighty which we need to research. (Omnipontent, Almighty, Having power over everything has fine differences).
7. Omnipresence – Quran does not say Allah present everywhere- Allah is distinct from creations. But Allah enters through his creations universe and can approach near to us. He is very close to us in his all capacity, watching and seeing us.
8. Allah never change even or before his creation. His action nothing connected to his creation. God being idle before or after creation is meaningless as per islam , no such reference is quran. Allah knows best. If anyone of you show it will be helpful to me.
9. As per islam God created soul and this nature. soul he made to destined to live long also he created, creats, will create, destroy and recreate a nature again as per his will
10. Allah says do not blame time and he says he remains as time. God only makes time, keeps in his control, Good or bad is in Allah’s control only. So in case of Allah Time or Good / bad is meaningless. Time , Good or bad is applicable to creations only..Even finite or infinite never applicable to Allah..Allah is Awwal (first) ahir (last) it means if you travel towards first or last it will not end..Allah remain ever.
11. As per Islam Allah only exist. Every other thing created out of nothing. There is a true existence it is Allah and Allah gave existence to non-existence which is creation but Allah never shares his divinity to any of his creations.
12. But in vedic you say three existence God, Soul, Prakriti which has just mutual interactions or fun play with each other. Even Arya differs with TS whether one can kill other or not or creation of soul and prakriti is automatic or not , eternal or not
13. We both agree no one can become Avatar so which will deny Ramayana, Mahabaratha or Jesus – same as muslim faith
14. We both agree idol worshipping or grave worshipping is meaningless and not a true form worshipping true God.
15. Kudha is a urdu word or Persian word to denote God, not exactly Allah, Allah has many attribute like merciful, loving , kind , So he is also called by such attributes Rahman (One who is merciful)- Allah has many such attributes, but 99 names are revealed in quran or in sunna, which is to be understood with complete perfection and with corrrect way how it will fit Allah
16. Grave worshipping is never agreed or acknowledged in quran or sunna..(if any muslim bring evidence to me , then i will ready to debate with them)..but hindusim already acknowledged the idol worship…There is no division among religion or people accepted in islam..But there is an acknowledgement in Hinduism…We have to acknowledge this..I am ready to die for eliminating grave worship or idol worship or divisions among muslims..Are you ready to die to eliminate idol or sects or castes among Hindus..I like to break an idol in public..are you ready to support me..If you are ready to break an grave, i am ready..(Pl note not any people or their beleif..I will make a Ganesh idol with my own rupee and will break in public as a symbol..do not want to hurt anyone)
17. As per Veda God is alive, soul is alive and Prakriti is dead (not alive-like wooden box)..but as per islam Allah is ever alive and he can make alive or dead anything as per his will. Concept of soul is different from Vedic in case of islam or semitic religions
18. So let us not confuse each other with words like Allah, soul, alive dead exactly for each other, but let us take more effort to understand.
Ultimately you never gave me any verse from quran which says “Allah was idle before creation” ..it is all your imagination..
This looks like you you will imagine Aishwarya Rai as male and ask from me some evidence. If I meet Aishwarya I will ask your doubt and let you know (I exaggerated this example so atleast you may understand your basic question which lead to all such discussions)
You debate a lot but least grasp the facts. I joined here to discuss islam is the fastest growing religion. Proving is very simple. Take adherents statistics of different religion in different part of world over year and make a curve it will definitely, simply prove islam is fastest growing. But you keep on discussing everything other than what is islam, but honest people read quran and sunnah and keep on accepting islam due to your such support of criticising islam,,welcome for all of your criticisms !
@shaikh
You believe this is first & last creation. If we ask you what was allah doing before this universe creation. You do not reply. If this is first & Last creation, That means Allah was sitting idly before this creation. Because there was no creation before this creation. There was nothing except Allah. Then What was allah doing & for what & for whom if there was no one exist except Allah . That means allah was sitting idly alone. Suddenly idea of universe creation came in Allah mind after sitting alone billion of years. How are we wrong? Everyone can excuse of Allah knows the best. suppose, One will rape of girl when judge will ask him, if he would say he did not done wrong. When judge asked him why he can say Allah knows the best.
But this cowardliness. If you do know what was Allah doing before this universe creation. How can you be follower of Islam. I will say you are a blind believer not islam follower.
But As per Veda process of universe creation & destruction eternal & everlasting. Allah is king and we are all his subjects (Praja). King is powerful & award the result to his subjects.
@TS
As per Islam Allah is the creation of everything (means all you describe as soul, prakriti, nature, good or bad, evil, or changes with time).
He gives life to creation also make it dead as per His will. Nothing exist independent of him. But Allah exists independent of any of his creations. He do not need creations, but creations need him for their existence. Allah is the absolute creator of everything as per islam.
But as per Veda soul and Prakriti exists independent of God (also You did not tell me Vedic name of God?- so using common english word).
So still a question remains that who created souls and Prakriti, time (before and after theories) etc., Even atheists said that no one created whatever existed today. But we told them as atheist (non believer of God’s existence).
As per Veda God is a masala which enters into Mutton or Chicken to give taste after cooked..so common people could not understand this logic and made God with a lot of Mid night masala theories.
formless God is inactive , get filled in all spaces or container (also sits inside a container as per Krishna Araya, not able to fill inside a wooden box as per his explanation)
Omni presence of God will also justify idol worshipping and Avatar even though you try your best to deny such concepts that from Vedas (People entered into Advaida, Dwaida, Visitathvaida debates, no one concluded)
This is because simple fact that Pl read the verses from quran
22:3] Among the people, there are those who argue about Allah without knowledge, and follow every rebellious devil (satan)
22:8] Among the people there is the one who argues about Allah without knowledge, and without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture (book)
I have clearly explained you that theory of time before or after creation is does not mean sense to Allah. How many creations known to Allah only, we do not have any such reference in quran, it is beyond our scope.
Your doubt is due to human mental constraint trying to grasp Allah’s activity along with creations. Islam does not speak all such things, islam mainly prevents all such debates which will not give any help to human beings
Quran 22:8] Among the people there is the one who argues about Allah without knowledge, and without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture (book)
If you produce evidence from quran only I will be able even to look this subject, Allah sitting idle, other wise I reject this as your own imaginations or lies.
But I appreciate your doubt, Pl read quranic verses that what it tells about Allah instead of imaginations or logical derivations.
As per my knowledge, mainly quran says that
1. No creations whatever we humans perceives are not the creator or not have any part of creator or does not share divinity of God
2. Creator is beyond our imagination
3. Creations only help to understand the power and excellence of the creator and proves existence of the creator.
4. Creations are made useful to human or human purposes. By doing research with creations human realizes the existence of creator, accepts his inability or meanness before creator also derive benefit of creations (which is sceintific development)
But Vedas or Hinduism gives idea that
1. Everything exists on its own..some of the unknown existence (as per you it is God) manages other existences (soul, nature-Prakriti)
2. Everything is God as per Hinduism, so people feared to do research the benefit either sun, moon, chicken, sheep or cow. So you have come out with a theories like cow is God, so it should not eaten, and many many rituals, supertitions .(But study of creations – science only disproving all such things).
Your question is similar to asking a british how do you eat a bread without sambar or dhall ! Request you to deeply study quranic explanation of God, I do interested to know to understand vedic explanation of God. Let us not compare simply. This is my message, pl take it correctly. We need to compare Verse by Verse Quran and Veda and analyse with knowledge and guidance.
This is mainly because Allah says in quran
Quran 22:8] Among the people there is the one who argues about Allah without knowledge, and without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture (book)
Also God, Allah is a very big subject we humans will not be able to comprehend and conculde. We muslims follow certain guidance from quran or sunnah for how to understand our creator- (not to mislead ourself)
@Shaik
You have write a lengthy & irrelevant, because you have nowhere mentioned What was Allah doing before this universe creation? If I said Allah was not sitting idly, There was also a universe before this universe creation. You said I am wrong because you says this is first & last creation. That means this creation is new for allah? Allah got the idea of making a universe creation after sitting idly billion of years. That means Allah is not perfect. Because if he would have perfect why not he got the idea of universe creation from eternal period. If Allah is eternal his creation also must be eternal. Can u say perfect to an entity who discovered or invent something. Allah is not perfect because he discovered/created/invented universe recently, say 4 billion year before. He could do this earlier. & If there was not a universe before this universe what was Allah doing & for what & for whom if no one exist except Allah. Kuran clearly give sing That Allah was sitting idly before this universe creation. If you are not agree, reply me What was Allah doing before this universe creation? Please write specifically related to the Question What was Allah doing before this universe creation?
@TS
Your quesion is irrelevant, first you check the relevancy of your question.
You first produce a verse from quran saying “Allah sitting idle”, you turn the pages of quran..
You do not have anything in your pocket and make FIR to police that you have lost something! Is it relevance..I asked a similar question if there were three immortals like God, soul, Prakriti- who created the soul and prakriti? You answer this. then it is not created by God then your God is imperfect much comparatively what you argue…
Your theory is some thing like there was a woman (god) used Roti (this universe) by using her hand techniques (creation process) also used water (soul) to give the softness..Nothing created by your God..You may claim your God made Roti like this woman…I have given full answer..
Your God as per your theory simply making Roti, Poori, Samosa, Sweety in same ingerident..notthing created….as per Veda..Pl produce Vedic verses..compare with quranic verses…I am not interested to listen to your imaginations
@Shaik
1.What is eternity of Allah’s throne? Is it eternal or temporary?
2. suppose, I go in company at the age of 70 to get a Job & says to employer this will be my first Job & first earning. What will be conclusion of employer & your about me?
& please do not run away. You can write short as much you know. We are not fighting here but seeking truth. & We are all brother having same father Allah/Aum/Agni/Parmatama. I want to understand islam these are very basic question which I would like to know. Please you help me & do not run away.
@TS
TS written as —-You can write short as much you know—-
My answer is : Allah says as in Quran 22:8] Among the people there is the one who argues about Allah without knowledge, and without guidance, and without an enlightening scripture (book)
TS written as:— —- please do not run away—– We are not fighting here but seeking truth—. I want to understand islam these are very basic question which I would like to know. Please you help me & do not run away—-
“Everything in the heavens and Earth glorifies Allah. He is the Almighty, the All-Wise. The kingdom of the heavens and Earth belongs to Him. He gives life and causes to die. He has power over all things. He is the First and the Last, the Outward and the Inward. He has knowledge of all things. It is He Who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then established Himself firmly on the Throne. He knows what goes into the ground and what comes out of it, what comes down from heaven and what goes up into it. He is with you wherever you are–Allah sees what you do. (Surat al-Hadid, 1-4)
His command when He desires a thing is just to say to it, “Be!” and it is. (Surah Ya Sin: 82)
[Allah is] the Originator of the heavens and Earth. When He decides on something, He just says to it, “Be!” and it is. (Surat al-Baqara: 117)
• -To comprehend or understand Almighty Allah’s Being (Zaat) by means of reason is absolutely impossible. That which can be understood by means of reason, can be comprehended and encircled by the mind, and there is nothing that can encircle or comprehend Allah’s Being. However, through Almighty Allah’s Works (Af’aal), His Attributes can be identified and through His Attributes, one is able to attain knowledge about the Being of Almighty Allah.
-With the exception of Almighty Allah’s Being and Attributes (such as Allah being Most Merciful, The Sustainer etc.) everything else is “Haadis” meaning that it did not exist, and only came into existence after Almighty Allah created them
-Any person who believes any of the Attributes of Allah to be a creation is a misled and corrupt person
Any person who says anything in the universe to be Qadeem (uncreated) or has a doubt in it being Haadis (created) is an unbeliever (Kaafir). None has the right to say anything in the universe to be uncreated or self existent. As it has been mentioned before, with the exception of Allah’s Being and Attributes, everything else has been created
Dear Brother TS, Thanks for your interest to understand islam
Your basic question which lead to the discussion is “Allah sitting idle before creation?”
Good, As per my knowledge there is no such reference is available in quran or Aunthetic Hadith. Also this is not at all part of belief of any muslims. If you produce evidence you are truthful on your question. Pl answer this Yes or No
If this is your imagination, then let us analyse your imagination
Suppose if I say “YES” to your argument ” Allah sitting idle before creation?” then you will ask me following questions
– Where Allah was sitting? In Juhu beach or Sahara desert or in Washington- again it is illogical because Allah did not create anything that time ” before creation” answer again becomes invalid
I can again ask you that your imagination may have innumerable possibilities
– Allah sitting idle before creation
– Allah is running alone without anyone
– Allah is crying or laughing. without creation..so list of your imagination will lengthen.. So all are illogical (not proving our human reasons again)..
You will whether Allah can kill himself in Allah is almighty,
Good , for the sake of your argument, if Allah kills or dies , then you will say how a dead person can become “Allah or God”.. Again making unsolvable human reasoning..This talk will go but will not produce any result..This is the reason this is satanic or devilish…
Ultimately everyone will produce different theories on God which islam stops. This is sufficient for all of you to understand how God is conceived in Islam.
– Allah’s glory never get added or deducted even a atom or whatever lesser atom level because of creations or actions of creations
– Compared to Arsh which is the creation of Allah this entire universe what we may conceive is like a small ring in a big desert..There is no meaning that creations are giving meaning to creator (Allah) if you can imagine such a difference of magnitude.
– Allah never change because of creations also Allah is not bound by time or good or bad..Time or good or bad are by Allah..So your question of sense of time like before or after creation is meaningless as per islam
Subhanallah (My Lord Allah is most Perferct). I take this opportunity to glorify my Lord, Allah (SWT).. We beleive in this way.
Whateverway you comprehend your creator is your right but you will be get mislead, until it takes anyone to Hellfire, because he will generates lies and false theories on God and human conflicts due to various God theories. This is the reason such people generate ” Atheists” too..
I am proud to say you that ” I DO NOT KNOW” in such cases, which is better than lies and imaginations..If you support with a verse from quran, I will think, until then this my answer “” I DO NOT KNOW”..explanation may be lengthy but written due to the importance of this subject.
Simply also I have said “I do not know” but you will drag me again as if you know all the God’s secret
Apparently Shaikh you are not the simple guy I thought you to be. You seem to have a lot of genjutsu up your sleeve.. 🙂
Anyways,
1. Allah decided one day that humans be created to worship him. I hope you agree to this. So what was Allah doing before he came to this decision? You have three options:
a. Allah’s previous cycle of creation-sustenance-dissolution came to an end and this is the next one. This is what hinduism says.
b. Allah was doing nothing. You could say idle.
c. You don’t know.
with option c you have two sub branches:
i) Either your own knowledge of quran is incomplete. I don’t think this to be the case.
ii) We cant find answers to questions like these in quran. This book doesnt have the solutions/path to solutions to the ULTIMATE questions of life and universe. It is a mere textual document that needs to be just followed,no questions asked.
“Ultimately you never gave me any verse from quran which says “Allah was idle before creation” ..it is all your imagination..
This looks like you you will imagine Aishwarya Rai as male and ask from me some evidence. If I meet Aishwarya I will ask your doubt and let you know” …. lol, but shaikh you are implicitly admitting that by true hard work, determination and dedication ( get to juhu..dodge the cameras and the bodyguards..surprise her from behind a pillar !) you will have your answer. This is what vedas preach: question,seek sincerely and your concience will realize the truth ultimately). but with quran, we not only donot get the answer to a question like this but are prohibited from asking questions like this about allah.Pretty irritable God this is .
and lastly, this is a comparitive religion site bro. We are here to discuss and contemplate, which is the essence of our religion. If you have a problem in us asking questions like this,feel free to navigate away.
@NaRuTo
You have explained me well “logically” the same ” imagination / assumption / perfection” of “Vedic Team” friends . So I convey my same arguments as belpw
1. I have very clearly admitted my view as “option C” which is ” I do not know ” about the nature of our creator or how he is (was or will be?). This is based on teachings of quran to accept our ignorance of God to comprehend him fully through our limited minds and beleive in Allah as per wrds of Allah (quran) and words of prophet “without making any assumption, twisting interpretations, comparing with creations or negations of any quranic words.
2. Quran asks us to seek evidence or proof if someone disputes in the matter of Allah for his assumptions or lies on Allah…
– Since the “Vedic” team claims that (may be after a very deep study of words of quran!)-Allah was sitting idle before creation or single creation or multiple creation of Allah, creations must exist along with Allah eternally (?) ….I asked direct reference from quran..Which no one of you have produced…(So I concluded your claims are based on your imaginations only do not have any direct reference from quran)
3. I concluded with you strongly that nature of Allah cannot be discovered by your simple logics or simple reasons.
– Science is a systematic observational human reasoning process which itself have still open questions on creations or creator. So science is a “impartial” with “partially discovered evidence’ on this universe.
– All other school of thoughts remains as a assumptions or hypothesis, which is being tested
– That is the reason we believe in creator “Allah” also do not imagine or go for “conclusion” with logical reasoning or create false concepts like idol worshipping, Advitha, Dvida or Visistathviada, all such theories even exists within Hindusim each theory dispute with other theory, finally you tend compromise for the sake of unity of beleivers / faith (?)
4. Can you say a single non -contracting theory and practice on God which is correct and accepted by all hindus? then we will compare that theory on God with Islamic theology of Allah?
Why you do not look into all the versions within you and eliminate by using your simple logics and come out with single theology. Billions of years you were confusing our forefathers so we have accepted Islam…Why you do not agree this first…all our conflict on God will end…
5.—–This book doesnt have the solutions/path to solutions to the ULTIMATE questions of life and universe. It is a mere textual document that needs to be just followed,no questions asked.—-
Ok- Let us accept for an argument Your Veda have ultimate answer that “Everything is eternal”
But atheists said there is no God in this universe , when everything was claimed by you as eternal and they have eliminated the God from your religion,
– Even if you accept that there is portion of eternal is God, then that God is imperfect…? (you disagree God is perfect)
—-Allah’s previous cycle of creation-sustenance-dissolution came to an end and this is the next one.——If your Veda tells like this as per your words was your God was idle before that “first No. 1” creation…Multiple creation theory also will not answer your own question–again there will be a period of God without creations, still God’s powers remains same “Glory of Allah never change can not be added or deleted” due to creations whatever they may influnce.
Pl answer “Time” created with creations or is it already Eternal?
Then if creations are eternal with time
a. What is the counted time of this world as per your Veda?
b. What is the age of God as per Veda? (Why do you limit God with time or with sense of time or need of creation?) Islam never does this? There is no such reference in quran…You just imagine..
What is wrong if we Muslims say that we do not know (not in our scope) or we do not have any Vedic evidences for all your imaginations or lie about the creator ?
” We do not know about God” is the best answer.
We believe that there is God and we do not know” how he is”? But God knows well how he is (was/ will be ?) Answer is Very Simple.
If you say your “Vedas” can give me “ultimate answer about creator” or “ultimate solution”, All such logical answer I can also pose on your God’s theories?
Concept of Idol Worshipping? – Have anyone of you seen God how he looks ? Do you have approval document for shape of God’s you show ? Do God has form when you claim formless as per your Veda?
Concept of Avatar – already you are in conflict whether to accept this or not?
Omnipresence of God – If God is present everywhere is it everything is God? In case if woman are Gods can we marry for reproduction purpose? Why not a Dalit is a God? Why he can not become priests in your highest temples? Still God is excluded in some places or for someone?
What is the answer for non-existence as per your Vedas? whether can non-existence can become existence or not ?
Why your Gods have family, children? What is the address of God’s family in this universe?
Pl answer all my counter logics because you strongly claime that your veda gives ultimate answer,
….. it is your turn to give answer to us…..
……because already you have assumed as if you have disproved quran or word of God…So Veda’s have ultimate answer for the universe, if you can properly convey Veda entire research going on existence or non existence of this universe can be closed..
I mainly helping you to redefine your question raised by your (limited!) minds..or Vedic Minds (pvt) Limited’s!
Pl allow me ask my logics on you unless you will say we do not know if you are truthful?
But you people are very clever that you assume something on quran or islam and ask us proof for your own imaginations…(this is how you were successful for cheating in the name of God(?)s
But Quran teaches basic two things
1. Aamanu..(amanthubillah) – “beleive or have faith” in Allah ..(This is internal conviction on God exists)
2. Amilus saalihaa- Do good deeds based on the faith…(This is the demonstration of the faith)
I request this website to produce only evidences or proof from quran , not generating assumptions. How one can answer for your own assumptions?
@TS,
already anwered pl read this
http://satyagni.com/1624/islam-the-fastest-growing-religion/#comment-15562
Pl give only your conclusion
@shaikh:
If your Veda tells like this as per your words was your God was idle before that “first No. 1” creation
I corrected this misconception of “True Indian” on Agniveer. In an eternal chain, there is no “first No. 1” creation. Every creation had a predecessor and will have a successor.
@shaikh
Brother can u explain me what do understand by word
1. Eternal 2. Perfect 3 Absolute
4. Do u believe Allah is unchangeable? If yes, what means of unchangeable as per your thinking? & If no, Why?
5. What do u mean by “This is first creation of Allah?”
6. Can u explain me as per Kuran “Allah is last? What means last here?
Please write in short & specific related to queries:-
Hello Sheikh.
Brother , I have no objection when you feel the need to write at great length to validate your viewpoint, but I do insist that they must be relevant to the topic being discussed. Your points 1,2 are relevant. We will discuss all your other points subsequently : your question on vedas : AFTER we reach a positive conclusion on the said topic.
Point 1&2: I said that if you are going with option C, we have two sub branches, either your knowledge of quran is incomplete, or the quran doesn’t have the answers. As the former can’t be the case, it must be the latter. You yourself agree to it, but offer an explaination : “This is based on teachings of quran to accept our ignorance of God to comprehend him fully through our limited minds and beleive in Allah as per wrds of Allah (quran) and words of prophet “without making any assumption, twisting interpretations, comparing with creations or negations of any quranic words.” ….For a person who is already a muslim, he will have no qualms about this. But how do you explain this to a non-beleiver when you introduce quran to him? “Accept the quran at face value:don’t ask anything about Allah,’coz Allah doesnt like his slaves asking questions:You were created to worship him and not to ask questions!!”
I would not have minded if the quran didnt contain an answer. The problem is it PROHIBITS contemplation. And if it weren’t for ‘twisting’ interpretations by some ‘knowledgable’ muslim scholars, the quran will have such blatant unscientific errors that will put you to shame shaikh. Also,You keep on asking me to give reference from quran, reference from hadiths. You perfectly know of flying donkeys and talking ants in both.Is this not blind belief/ superstition?
points 3,4, and last portion of your comment, we will discuss seperately after we come to a conclusion here.
If it is relevant, could you repost what you wrote in point 5 1st para? The meaning you want to convey is not clear.
So back to sqaure one. This is my summary: quran doesnt have the answer to what happened before this creation.Also, it explicitly prohibits us from seeking such knowledge. Allah/Muhammad doesnt want us to contemplate. Accept at face value what the quran has to offer. Is this conclusion alright? If yes, we can move to the other points.If not, lets lcontinue. But please note we will not discuss anything else until we conclude here.
A few points more:
Understand what we are implying when we ask ” was allah idle before creation” ? When we hindus say GOD is PERFECT, we imply certain attributes: UNCHANGEABLE, doesnot act RANDOMLY. We are pointing out to the WHIMSICAL nature of God in deciding to suddenly create this world one fine day. Your explaination of quran telling us to do as quran says is not an explaination : at least to me: in the first place.
“accept our ignorance of God to comprehend him fully through our limited minds” .. who said we will be able to comprehend God fully once we get to know an answer to this question? Even if I ask a thousand questions like this, my ‘knowledge’ of God will not be ‘full’. Which is why, by completely striving to shed ignorance, we seek to REALIZE him, within our mind.If I knew EVERYTHING about God and what he does and how he does , what is the difference between me and God? Please read Agniveer’s Vedic concept of salvation to have a clearer understanding on this.
@NaRuTo,
Pl read all my posts, pl do not try to degrade my views due to your ignorance. I say simply if you have any evidence from Quranic verses or Aunthetic, Agreed Hadith pl discuss about islam..or stop your imaginations , assumptions , perceptions or lies…I do not want to comment on Veda, even do not want to read your Veda, which even you have banned for your untouchable peoples belongs to your community…Since you comment on islam I was answering that everything from you is bluff or imaginations..this whole website..Even muslims can settle through knowledgeable hindu scholars or unbaised people of your community..I think you are some software people trying to confuse common people like me…I read your website completely..so I registed my views here..I have every right to do this..becausing you are dealing with my faith wrongly…in the name of freedom of speech..but you think…islam will be growing only..whatever you do..pl think….you work until how much can…you join toghther and work still better..but you will see islam is growing and winning only..Have this experiences..best wishes…manything already registed my views..no need for me to repeat to childs like you….Pl go back i have registed hundreds of posts..pl read again and again..everything will give my views..anything new i will register my views..If you are irritated because of my views about truth, I can not help you
For a moment there, Shaikh, I thought you were a reasonable man. I pity your highly emotional rant : when you have ran out of any way to defend quran, you have started calling me ‘ignorant’ , ‘child’ etc. For your information, I have gone through each and every one of your hundreds of posts, and mark my words, your posts are nothing more than an outpouring of woes from a guy who feels offended when someone asks questions on a subject he thinks he knows deeply but find unable to answer. I have not learned a single worthwhile thing about quran from you till now. Sad.
So since you have kept silent on the issue, I will iterate that my conclusion is agreed upon by both of us : “: quran doesnt have the answer to what happened before this creation.Also, it explicitly prohibits us from seeking such knowledge. Allah/Muhammad doesnt want us to contemplate. Accept at face value what the quran has to offer. ” .
We shall go to subsequent topics now, shall we? Please note: One point at a time shall we move ahead. You take your time in replying. But dont pull of that stunt of confusing the other reader with lengthy 8-9 paras having no relation whatsoever to the topic being discussed.
“I do not want to comment on Veda, even do not want to read your Veda, which even you have banned for your untouchable peoples belongs to your community” … This is why I say you dont read the articles here brother. TIme and again it has been underlined that vedas are meant for truth seekers and not exclusively for some birth based brahmins. So you lie and lie again when you put in these remarks cunningly in between.
What makes you think satyagni has not read quran and hadiths? What if I myself show “verses from quran” “verse from hadiths” that are blatantly in contradiction with science as of today?
and lastly, from what I have understood from your ramblings, your main consideration when rejecting hinduism and accepting islam was the utter confusion in the previous one and supposed clarity in the latter. Now that agniveer has cleared away all the confusion, it seems only rational that now you come back to hinduism. Agreed brother?
@Kalbhairav / NaRtou, Shravak,
The whole website contents , discussions, criticism raised based on only assumptions, imaginations, prejudice, perceptions, logical human reasons, mixed feelings, mixed political conflicts, hatred feelings, distrust on Islam and muslims..
The website never supports with quranic verses (Words of Allah) or Hadith (authentic word of messenger of Allah) or Sunnah (ways of messenger of Allah) with right context. Highlighting this point is sufficient for me. If you want to criticize Islam then you need to criticise quran or Hadith and you have to understand how immediate followers of Md. Nabi understood Islam and how correctly others followed them….
Islam is the follow
1. Instructions of Allah which is preserved in quran
2. Instructions of Mohamed Nabi which is compiled in Hadith
Various Imams of islam or scholars interpreted both, followers go by these scholars direction and best method is to follow them but not blindly…
Human reasons or logics are not the basis of Islam, we only follow divine reasons…first you need to understand this fact and come and discuss in this platform…..
Always I quoted that if you take human reasons or logics “Atheists” – No God theory always will win…
As a third or fourth level if we apply human reasons on Islamic guidelines it is again always correct.Human reasons are in a primitive stage,,it will take its own time to understand divine guideliness
KB, You talked on Ex-Nihilio theory is scientifically wrong..can you tell me science completely disproves the Ex-Nihilio theory? If you are truthful ask world science forum to declare it is an disproved theory..
Again you mix politics with this…If you have allowed common people to eat beef , if you were tolerant why the nations get carved? Pl learn to take equal responsibility..why you force people to worship monkeys and snakes..why you divide people based on castes.? Why do you accumulate wealth with idols in the temples? even Indian Government could not use it for constructive purpose..Is it peoples money or divine money? Pl acknowledge basics of many such reasons we your brothers follow Islam, ok even if you make India as a nation what will your religious code of rule?
You must learn to acknowledge some truths I have explained to you till now…
We follow only quran or Hadith or Sunnah of Prophet..not simple human reasons….If Quran says we can not assume we can from God and we came from Nothing we follow we came from nothing only….Pl acknowledge this guideliness..Do not try to cry again my reasons, logics, all such things..All such logics can definitely used against to disprove you…If everything is part of God, why an Idol is not a part of God? How you will disprove idol worshipping? If you show one two choices either idol worshipping or Islam, he may take one but not your theories..You are trying to compromise or cheat in the name of Vedas….People will naturally choose idol worshipping or atheism or Islam ..not yours..Pl try your best than feeling bouncing on me….I have read very deeply on the philosophies of various religions with many practical reasons..You are simply confusing not only muslims but also Hindus as well as Atheists, when you will move ahead…everyone will kick you for some reasons…Pl take my words…Then think…why I have accepted Islam? I am much cleverer than your emotions with me…
Better you read quran and Hadith deeply with “wholistic view” if you agree you follow it…if you disagree wait for God’s justice..Whatever misunderstanding you will create to whatever extent we will provide quran or Hadith only to people those will approach us..If they agree..good…if they disagree God is the judge….”I, Shaikh, do not have any specific answer to you” Only Quran and Hadith is the answer to you., you like it or hate it…which is already available..If possible if you are handicapped to take answer from quran or Hadith I may help you….very simple…
@shaikh:
Still no analogy of creatio ex-nihilo. LOL.
can you tell me science completely disproves the Ex-Nihilio theory?
Sure, it is called law of conservation of energy. Energy/matter can neither be created nor destroyed. When scientists talk of the Big Bang, they do not say it just arose out of nothing. They say that they do not know what was there before. There is a BIG difference.
Always I quoted that if you take human reasons or logics “Atheists” – No God theory always will win…
Dont try to educate us on how to argue with atheists, kiddo. I would worry more about the following stupid statements:
Human reasons or logics are not the basis of Islam, we only follow divine reasons
Here you are saying that divine reasons are illogical?
As a third or fourth level if we apply human reasons on Islamic guidelines it is again always correct.Human reasons are in a primitive stage,,it will take its own time to understand divine guideliness
Here you are saying human reason is correct?
Which is it? And how do you know?
This is only answer for you whatever logic or Human reason you bring, you think, think and think until you understand this
“But does man not bear in mind that We have created him aforetime out of nothing?” Quran 19:67:
“The Originator of the heavens and Earth. When He decides on something, He just says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is” (Qur’an, 2:117)
He created the heavens and Earth with truth. The day He says “Be!” it is. His speech is Truth. The Kingdom will be His on the Day the Trumpet is blown, the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible. He is the All-Wise, the All-Aware. (Qur’an, 6:73)
“Or were they created out of nothing, or are they the creators?” (Qur’an, 52:35).
@shaikh:
I have thought long and hard about it before and the only conclusion I reach is that it makes no sense.
Do you agree that God creating the universe out of Prakriti makes more sense than out of nothing? Yes or no?
If the Quran had said that Saturday is the day of Satan and all children born on Saturday should be killed, would you kill them? If not, why not?
@KB
If the Quran had said that Saturday is the day of Satan and all children born on Saturday should be killed, would you kill them? If not, why not?–
KB where this is in quran? I have read no where in quran? Pl read and show me, I do not know how much misunderstanding like this about quran?
@shaikh:
Let me repeat and note the emphasis on my words.
If the Quran had said that Saturday is the day of Satan and all children born on Saturday should be killed, would you kill them? If not, why not?
The idea here is to see how far you are a blind believer and how far you are willing to use your own head.
This is said by KB only not quran..no sense in making my brain in this…you turn the pages of quran and show me where it is said instead of advicing me to use my brain!
Srisri Ravishankar said Islam is the only true religion? do you know this? answer me…Do you know Swami Vivekananda accepted islam..answer me know..i will see how you will use your brain?
@Shaik
_______He just says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is”________
To whom Allah said this?
_______were they created out of nothing,________
When they were created? Is they old as much as this present earth or something else?
“As per Veda God is a masala which enters into Mutton or Chicken to give taste after cooked..so common people could not understand this logic and made God with a lot of Mid night masala theories.
formless God is inactive , get filled in all spaces or container (also sits inside a container as per Krishna Araya, not able to fill inside a wooden box as per his explanation)
Omni presence of God will also justify idol worshipping and Avatar even though you try your best to deny such concepts that from Vedas (People entered into Advaida, Dwaida, Visitathvaida debates, no one concluded)”
Could you provide “reference from Vedas” for these “imaginations” shaikh? I insist you provide the verse from veda which states “omnipresence of God justifies idol worship” , This is your imagination at work when you say that “omnipresence justifies idol worship” : you were asking for exact reference from quran about idleness of Allah before creation. you keep shouting that we need to compare vedas and quran verse by verse with knowledge and divine guidance.There is a comment from you saying explicitly so. So unless you do so, you prove yourself to be a cunning two timer who will try to justify quran by hook or by crook.
Btw, what do you know about advaita / dwaita ? I know for a fact that you havent read a single verse from veda till now. Accepted. But it pains to know that you dont even read the articles here properly. I saw elsewhere you harping about “aryan race being different from arab race” et al when a thousand times it has been confirmed here that arya is not a race. ( this was wen you were trying to justify Allah allowing incest to happen through adam eve theory). So kindly understand the article,and pose relevant comments/questions to the article instead of bogging the other reader down with a 10 page essay which has NOTHING to tell except confuse the other guy. Cheerios.
@shaikh
>> 1. you feel arrogantly you are on high morale
2. You feel whatever your faith which you support is have 100% clarity and way of life.
Why you do not allow us to criticize equally? Then will you answer?
Are you not cricizing hindusim eqaully? how many time does your momin brothers ridicule sri krishna. As hinduism can go beyond srikrishna we dont defend him much( though the accusation of 16k gopikas is just a misinformed one)
>> made all the jokers here that by understanding the level of corruptness and non-clarity of Hinduism only we left this faith of our forefathers..in terms of lack of clarity or definition of God, In equality, no vision for human unity, various superstitious belief, many…many
What is the definition of god in islam?
How is he likened to a lamp tied to a date tree?
Why is he giving us tests , while he himself never took any tests?
What is the basic kalma of islam, why are not ahmediyas who believe the same kalma not muslims?
I can keep on going, the emptiness of islam and lack of understandind capacity of momins is not hinduisms fault.
>> Will you all agree if I use same approach or logic or method or language you try to use on Islam?
Yes you can blame all hindu gods. Hindu god is impersonal. But hey who are the one who brand us as penis worshippers?
>>You send me one unequivocal verse from Veda
http://agniveer.com/621/polygamy-hinduism/
>>Islam has that legal provision already…
Islam has all the provisions for better, peaceful , co-existence
Coexistance of mulsims only. Others religions and idolators are to be taxed heavily and have to be considered ignorant .
If you truly want to prove islam is peacful then do it in action by abolishing apostasy( as state is different from religion) , blashphemy laws and allowing others to propogate their religions in muslim countries.
Let me give my views on the questions posed.
Let me at the outset correct KB’s refering to Ganesh as a bachelor, I think he probably meant Karthikeya and not Ganesh.
One of the of the pillars of SD is the law of karma which states that what one does is done to him. So, if any of your acts causes someone pain, you are liable the undergo the same degree of pain that you have inflicted on others. The Brahman is absolute and is therefore free from wants. No question of the absolute longing for multiple spouses (wives or husbands), but coming to Gods (devis and devatas), as I have already said they are elementals of a different domain, they are not above the universal laws of karma. If they do something wrong, they will also have to pay for it. Understand this, if somebody is appointed the judge of the Supreme Court, it does not mean that he/she is above blame or blemish. Indra had to suffer a lot for his misdeeds. The hallmark of SD is once one has undergone punishment for his wrong deeds, he is absolved of the crime committed, unlike in Islam where one will either perpetually enjoy the lavishes of heaven perpetually or will suffer the pangs of hell for eternity no matter the degree of crime/good deeds one does,
In Hinduism, unlike Islam, we are always open to new, better ideas and hence more likely to change with times and accept the trends of the fast changing society and its needs. “Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah. Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions.” So, we will continue to adapt to the changing times and circumstances, adapt newer laws and policies for the betterment of the society as a whole, but Islam sorely lacks this flexibility. Polygamy was an accepted norm in earlier days (and in fact polyandry was also practiced though it was not popular), but with time, the hindus have accepted monogamy as a way of life.
@SDC:
Yep…Karma does apply to devis and devatas…Karma doesnt attach to Brahman according to all branches of vedanta…
I think Karthikeya does have two consorts according to Tamil lore…Valli and Deivayani…I thought Ganesha’s consorts were more philosophical like Buddhi, etc.
It must be very gratifying to dismiss the majority of hindus as “Idol” worshippers. Let me give a vedantin’s answer on this.
First, Hindus worship “murti’s” .A Murti is a “manifestation”. Since hindus believe god is everywhere, it is much easier to focus the mind on one place if you have a murti. THerefore, that stone becomes sacred, because of the intention of the worshipper. No stone is sacred by itself( or you can also say ALL stone is sacred and no stone is more sacred than others). IF you have progressed far enough on the path, then you do not need any particular murti to use during prayer..
Since God has no particular form, for the worshipper, the murti in a particular form serves to focus the mind and stop it from flitting about..since it is the nature of the mind to jump about from one topic to another. Anyone who has tried to meditate for even 5 minutes knows this.
Every name of God in hinduism is ADJECTIVAL..they are all descriptive. Like in ” A big,red,shining rose” where the words”big,red and shining” are adjectives to the entity Rose… the names brahma(meaning infinite) shiva(meaning auspicious) vishnu(meaning all pervading) , raama(meaning the one who gives Joy) etc are all adjectival to an entity beyond the reach of words(or even a subject object relationship).
Before one assumes the inherent superiority in worshipping a “formless ” god without resorting to this “silly” use of “murtis”, let one answer this…
1) A shape is a “form” is something that is perceived by the “Eye”. A sound is a “Form” that is perceived by the ear.
A smell is a “form” that is perceived by the nose. A touch(hard/smooth/soft etc..) is a “form” that is perceived by the skin.
A taste (spicy/sweet/salty) is a “form” that is perceived by the tongue. We experience this world through these 5 kinds of forms
Is a “formless” god one who is not having ANY of the above 5 kinds of forms? or does ISlam refer only to the “VISUAL” form?
If the latter, why choose only the “forms” of the eye??? Why not all the other kinds of forms? why “eye” discrimination here?
If the former, then how can God have the name” Allah” which is a “sound” form? If you say that there is really no word for God, but that Allah means a pointer to that nameless reality who is really beyond words, then that is a great thing. But Some people say that there is no other name for Allah but Allah and that is his real true name and that his divine language is Arabic…then he Allah becomes a God with the sound form”Allah” and even he words like “god/ishwar” etc cannot be used.What does the devout muslim have in ind when praying? the “word” allah?meaning the sound “form” Allah?
THe answer to this question gives a clue to why there are so called 33 million gods in hinduism. Every one of these names and forms is the name/form of that one eternal entity. Why only 33 million? there are infinite names and forms… and all of these only point to that eternal one..none are intrinsic to Ishwara.
I have a few more questions for the budding enthusiast of religion(whatever that religion is). A person who truly ponders these questions for his/her own sake..rather than just trying to score a point against others on a website/public forum ..can be said to be a true seeker..in my humble opinion.
1) If god existed before the creation of the world, what did he create the world out of?
2) If he created it out of some material, who created the material?( I am ruling out the creation out of nothing argument since nothing comes out of nothing .I am also assuming there must be a creator for ANY and EVERYTHING…only such a being is worthy of the title “creator”)
3) If there was/is material other than god, wouldnt he be limited by that material and hence where that material is, he would not be, hence he would not be omnipresent? (I have heard some muslims publicly declare that god is not omnipresent)
4) If the earth/stone/metals is insentient, what is the definition of sentience? A sentient being is defined by the use of energy.
Every particle of the univers has/IS energy. Essentially ever element can be traced to the hydrogen atom. Combinations of hydrogen under high pressure gives rise to helium, lithium..etc. So, everybody is made of the same stuff of the universe, which in turn is nothing but energy..e=mc2. So, If go is separate from us, he is not matter or energy….How can such a god affect matter or energy without being matter or energy? How can such a god be omnipotent if he is not matter/energy?
5) What is consciousness? How is it linked to god..? How can it be proved that a stone is not conscious?that an atom is not conscious?. If God is a conscious being , and a human is a conscious being(or even a dog or a pig) then dont we share this characteristic of consciousness? Doesnt that mean God and the puny living beings on earth run on the same “consciousness” juice? SO we are all at least semi-divine???
6) why should god be addressed with male epithets exclusively? why is there no feminine conception of god? Isnt he above gender? then why not address god as female ? why only male?
7)Why does an omnipotent god need followers to praise him? WHat does he gain by it that he does not have? why does such a mighty being have to bully the limited puny humans with threats of hell? If the puny humans are separate from him, doesnt that mean that he is not omnipotent?
8) If God is omniscient, and is the creator of all, then why does she create sinners? why do babies die in the mothers womb itself sometimes, without doing any sin? why does she have to create some people as lame/blind/deaf from birth? some are born deaf,blind and dumb, and die within a few months. there was absolutely no chance of such a baby even doing an action of of self aware free will. what is the point of creating such lives?
9) Why does heaven have to be a place of physical delights like virgins etc? what the hell is the point of sexual pleasures in heaven???? Or even any kind of pleasures like heavenly food/drink etc…arent these pleasures of the senses that reside in a body? So is Heaven a place where god is in one corner and there are other beings like angels/pure souls in other places in heaven all enjoying sensual pleasures?
THat means even in heaven God is in one place only, and there are places where he is not( the places occupied by angels etc)
THat means there should be a boundary between the place where he is and the place where he is not. Like water, which though intrinsically having no form, can be bounded by the container in which it is, Such a god will end up having a form , while Islam says he/she is formless.
10) If god breathed life into insentient material to make living beings like humans, what is life? is it just energy? but all insentient matter is also energy, which can be converted from one form to another.. like heat into light etc. So , if matter is deemed insentient, then energy should also be insentient. THat means a human is also therefore insentient.
If “life” is not just “energy” then what is it? is it a part of God? If it is a part of god, then all living beings are a combination of this part of god with the insentient matter..making all living beings semidivine??
If it is a power of god..like electricity in a bulb then does that mean that the “conscious/alive” part of a human being is this power..and that means free will is an illusion and hence there is no point in doing good vs bad deeds. What is this mysterious life then ?
thanks for reading..
Here is an extract from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murti
Murti-Worship as Distinct from Idol-Worship
The notion that the term murti is equivalent to the English word “idol” is a misconception. The scholar Steven Rosen notes that early European missionaries were largely responsible for conflating the two terms by informing local Hindus that “idol” was the correct translation for “murti”.[5] Furthermore, scholar Diana Eck explains that the term murti is defined in Sanskrit as “anything which has definite shape and limits; a form, body, figure; an embodiment, incarnation, or manifestation.” Thus, the murti is more than a likeness; it is the deity itself taken “form”.The uses of the word murti in the Upanishads and the Bhagavad-Gita suggest that the form is its essence.”[6] Thus, a murti is considered to be more than a mere likeness of a deity, but rather a manifestation of the deity itself.The Murti is like a way to communicate with the abstract one god (Brahman) which creates,sustains and dissolves creation.
How contradictory of you shaik. You claimed- I do not have knowledge of unseen. what u are alluding in plain english is that you have no clue about what you have not seen. you then say that you believe in what u have no knowledge about – alla and angels. so finally u believe in something that u have no clue about. this is what a book like quran can do to the human mind. numb it with circular logic and stop logical reasoning. leave islam and get a life. u do not have to keep probing ur self all the time about the role model you are following. even a seventh century infidel forefather of yours is more noble than muhammed. Somewhere someone in your family converted to islam. u are disrespecting ur own seventh century fore father by making muhhamed youor role model. your own infidel forefathers would have never raped women, unleashed mass slaughters, maimed people for believing in a different God, trade slaves, have multiple wives and marry kids. leave islam and get a life
@shaikh,
>>Meanwhile Satan will show some pictures and idols to innocent people as God
If Satan is the one who is showing gods pictures and making us to commit shirk then why is allah punishing us? Cant allah just go and kill satan?
>>..If you go to a studio and take your own picture if the studio person gives you some different picture, what will be your reactions
Definitley i wont burn him in hell forever(i am lot better than allah).
I will simply show him that mistake is done and ask to retake the photo. If he dont accept that i will not pay him and go to some other studio.
Wo w,u r just a waste of time.u should see the video of Dr zakir and your sri sai(ur religion expert)…Just ask ur expert how he was embarrased.he makes me throw up.He is nothing.Long live Dr.Zakir who is teaching you about your religion(ur scriptures)Please please dont say hindu is a religion.U guys smell like hell atleast islam tells us to keep ourselves clean, thats science.and whats more we dont make statues and worship them,this is silly.So please shut up (dont waste others time) and beg ur statues or fire,…..whatever ur godsich u built by your hands.F.Y.I Prophet Muhammed pbuh weighs too much for u even to mention hei name.u r nothing,foolish
@ferdi
We have seen how good zakir “terrorist and plagiarist” naik is in hindu scriptures. Search on this site and you shall see so many rebuttals to Naik’s stupidity, after these rebuttals, you will be ashamed to even calling urself proud by once attending his lectures.
hindu is not a religion and islam is? If hindusim was not a religion it would not have survived an onslaught of 1000 years and flourished.
Yeah and we build statutes by our hand. Want me to build statues of mohammed? There is one in usa, outside their supreme court.
Your false god allah couldnt defend his mosque when we false idol worshippers destroyed it. Allah is false, come to true religion.
jai shri ram
Reading your comments I find you aggressive. It goes well with “militant” in your name, but it’s not the best method on a website.
First: hinduism can’t be a false religion as it is not a religion. Hinduism is an English invention in order to make sanathan dharma look like a primitive religion when it is a way and view of life.
I consider Islam (after reading the Quran and making lots of research) to be an anti-dharmic religion. Moreover, it is said that it is in the Bhavishya puranas.
It’s just very clear, I just want you to stop being that aggressive towards the others (even if they (the islam defenders as they are your targets) are being.
@Sharek:
It’s just very clear, I just want you to stop being that aggressive towards the others (even if they (the islam defenders as they are your targets) are being.
Seems a bit of a pacifist POV. This DOES have its place. But against the virulence of Islam, this can get us nowhere…another partition maybe. There is a place for Mahatma Gandhi…But against Islam, I would take Sardar Vallabhai Patel first.
Although “hindu militant”‘s posts may be bit over the top (in my opinion), there is a valid place for such views. We cannot reason and win against a militant ideology like Islam whose ONLY modus operandi since 700 AD has been killing or converting the Kufr.
No I know that against islam you will have to use violence. It is inevitable, and predicted by many that a world war will occur against islam. Even Krishna says that you must use violence if it is inevitable if dharma is in danger.
But on this website, you can be aggressive with the arguments (I do that a lot of time on youtube for example), but you can’t be aggressive and just aggressive.
But in the world, there are still “moderate” muslims sensible to speech. It depends on the country, family etc. I’m actually in France, there is a lot of muslims here converting by fear of Satan or by ignorance. I have talked to many, and in many ways. Here, speech is the best way.
But that’s not the case in India, because the muslims are less moderate, and more Quran-shaped. And that’s why it is legitimate to be violent against Indian muslims.
It’s quite interresting to observe these difference.
Kaal bhariav, dhanyawaad. Thankyou for the compliments.
yes people do consider my posts as over the top, aggressive etc. But honestly, there is NO way you can win a logical arguement with any muslims. There are lots of scholars like Satyagni, indian agnostic, etc who can argue logically, but muslims have a closed mind. What is written in the koran is correct and everything else is wrong. I have read koran, (though not hadith). We have changed our religion, eg:- polygamy, or sati practice is outlawed, in accordance with modern times. They havent. They cant even give up/modify simple things like jihad. They dont even give me the freedom of choice, even if hinduism is false, I still want to practise it, my choice. They dont give me the choice, hence my hatred. If we would have kicked out all muslims to pakistan in 1947, believe me, I wouldnt even bother with this website.
Yes they are aggressive, and do belive in violence, and looking at their attitude even today, I do believe that they would still convert us today FORCIBLY if they had half a chance. Thats why I fight them with equal aggression. They DO consider our tolerance (sahishnuta) as cowardice. Well, they do consider ALL non-muslims as cowards. So I want to prove them wrong.
dedicated to hindu militant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTM9AuFzpsI
@ hindu militant
Yes u had to change your religion because there were so many wrong things in it. y wud a true religion need to be changed?? on the other hand Islam does not need any changes coz its the perfect religion. u talk about jihad but you urself dont knw its meaning. jihad cums from d root word “jahada” which means to strive and struggle. And for ur kind consideration Hinduism too talks about jihad. Do u knw how many verses of fighting are mentioned in Mahabharata??
U say that Indian Muslims shud have gone to Pakistan. Seems like u cum from an RSS or BJP or Shiv Sene or VHP led group. People like u are creating most problems in India. Have shame on ur words.
One last thing, how much ever people like u critice Islam it will keep spreading bcoz it is meant to be.
and u r free to practice any religion. There is no compulsion in Islam as the Quran says.Truth stands out clear and falsehood is bound to perish.
And here i wud also like to praise Sharik for his words. May Allah bless u. Ameen!!!
May Allah help all d non-muslims to follow d true path!!!
hey u @ Hindu militant.
Yes you had to change your religion because there were so many wrong things in it. On the other hand there is no need to change Islam at all. because it is the perfect religion. You talk about jihad but you urself dont know its correct meaning. Jihad comes from the root word jahada which means striving and struggling. And u too arent aware that hinduism itself talks about striving. Do u knw how many verses of fighting are there in Mahabharata?? u r an ignorant person.
u say that Indian muslims shud have gone to Pakistan. Seems like u cum from d RSS or BJP or VHP led group. Or maybe Shiv Sena. People like u are creating more problems in India than any other terrorist group.Have shame on ur words.
u can accept and practice any religion. there is no compulsion in Islam as the Quran says.Truth stands out clear.
One last thing, how much ever people like u criticise Islam, it is bound to spread because it is the religion of TRUTH.
And here i wud also like to praise Sharik for his words. May Allah bless you….Ameen!!
If there is no compulsion in religion, then why declare apostates as wajibul qatl.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm
@T Sheikh
abe shaane, (sorry I cant use fould words here.)
Our religion is modern, we stopped polygamy, why cant you muslims? Islam is perfect religion, my ass. Islam is the most brutal violent and intolerant religion. You dont respect my religion, and yu expect me to respect yur terorist cult ? islam is the only FALSE religion. It was wiped out from spain (al andalusia) and in east punjab during partition. What we can do in punjab, we can do all over India.
Your islam wiped out my hinduism from Afghanistan, Pakistan, bangladesh and now kashmir. I seen what heppened to kashmiri hindus and seen desecrated temples in kashmir. Why shouldnt I hate islam? Tell me? Why shouldnt I want to wipe out islam from hindu majority India, EXACTLY like hinduism was wiped out from kashmir. Tell me, logically why? Yes I am shameless person, and I am more fanatic than sangh parivar. Go and save hindus in kashmir, then maybe I will think of keeping you in India.
If yu cant change jihad and want to fight a religious war, what is going to stop me from fighting a dharmatyuddha? I know passages from Mahabharata. It does teach me to fight. So, let us fight a final battle, lets see who wins. Hinduism is the most violent religion on earth, we are deadliest warriors, thats why we kept our faith sine 1000 years.
HAR HAR MAHADEV
@ hindu militant
first of all i wont use any bad word for u coz islam does not permit it. secondly u too shud not use any bad word 4 any 1 if u truly believe in ur religion. Now u dont have to think of keeping me in India. coz u have no right whatsoever to decide as to who wud stay in India. Indian Muslims are not tenants in India. They are the landlords. Who r u to decide as to who wud stay in India?
If u wanna fight to see who wins u shud wait n watch. Truth will prevail all over the world.
U say u kept ur religion 4 1000 years but am sorry to say Hinduism is not a religion at all. This word Hinduism was first used by the British And the word Hindu was first used by the Arabs when they came here for trade. And this is a fact which cannot be denied. if u really have kept ur religion then y r there sooooooooooooo many differences in Hinduism? If u ask any Hindu person what is the concept of God in Hinduism there wont be a uniform response whatsoever. And for ur kind info Islam has thrived for more than 100 years as it prevailed even before the universe was created. so u r any day wronggggggg.
And i m a girl not a guy. And i love islam from the bottom of my heart!!!
@T Shaikh:
Real good job addressing this to HM after knowing his banned status.
And for ur kind info Islam has thrived for more than 100 years as it prevailed even before the universe was created.
Circa 600 AD nobody bowed down towards Mecca 5 times a day. So, sorry, Islam came into being after the prophet had some dreams while dozing off inside a cave while he was trying to escape desert heat.
Please clarify whether you are Sunni/Shia/Sufi/Qadiyani. If you are Sunni, also comment on the hell-bound status of the Shia or vice-versa. Also, comment on this “Truth” you keep referring to. What is that?
@TShaikh see the fraud statement of this Katwa on one hand he is telling he will not abuse anybody on other hand HE IS THREATENING HINDUS THAT HE WILL WIPE THEM OUT. THIS IS MENTALITY OF PAKISTANI MIGRANTS AKA INDIAN MUSLIMS WHO THINK THEY ARE THE LANDLORDS OF THIS COUNTRY AND HINDUS ARE BONDED LABOR OF THEIRS.
Dear T Shaikh Katwa we had break the back of Pakistani Muslim Army in all wars poor allah was not able to do anything Muslims have been given separate country why are they (Pakistani migrants aka Indian Muslims) breeding here they should go their.
@TShaikh if goverment does not interfere for one month Hindus will create Godhra in every part of India and kick out all Pakistani Migrants aka Indian Muslims to Pakistan and see who will win.
I never said that Hindus are bonded labourers of Muslims and that they shud be wiped off India. This is ur mentality that muslims are after every1. u people jus create false statements to divert the topic. Will u ever make an attempt to find out the reality and speak the truth. Muslims have not been given a separate country in the form of Pakistan. Its just a muslim majority State. There are Hindus in Pakistan just as there are muslims in India. Y cant u people live with harmony. Is that what ur religion teaches u????
U wanna create a Godhra in every part of India then mind u , India will be nowhere coz Muslims are the backbone of India. So u agree that u created Godhra……..its disgusting to knw that u like to make such statements.
If u read the top of this page it says that God is Formless and Unborn. Then y do u give Him the shape of an idol?? How can God be a human as u believe it to be , if God is Unborn. Answer these questions if u have the guts!!!!
Namaste T Shaikh
—————I never said that Hindus are bonded labourers of Muslims and that they shud be wiped off India.———-
This was thew dream of the Ghazi bastards of Arabs and Turks like Muhammad Bin Qasim, Muhammad Ghauri and gay Babur who you hail as your heroes.
————–This is ur mentality that muslims are after every1.————–
What were Arabs doing here in India? Why did not Hindus attack Arabs but Arabs attacked India?
—————— Muslims have not been given a separate country in the form of Pakistan. Its just a muslim majority State. There are Hindus in Pakistan just as there are muslims in India. Y cant u people live with harmony. Is that what ur religion teaches u????—————–
1. What made the MAJORITY Muslims so infuriated at innocent Hindus that they started killing and raping them in 1947 under the name of “Direct action plan”? Why no Ulema issued Fatwa against this massacre? Why are Muslims around 20% in India but Hindus in Pakistan less than 1%? Why are the Hindus fleeing out of the Pakistan?
2. Rather you should give the harmonious lectures to Muslims who demanded the separate land in the name of Islam?
—————-U wanna create a Godhra in every part of India then mind u —————-
Godhra was done by Muslims, get your facts straight. Muslims burnt alive 56 people there.
—————— India will be nowhere coz Muslims are the backbone of India. So u agree that u created Godhra—————-
Muslims are backbones of pakistan too, look what is happening there. Backbones are fracturing each other 🙂 We certainly dont need such backbones in our country
————–If u read the top of this page it says that God is Formless and Unborn. Then y do u give Him the shape of an idol?? How can God be a human as u believe it to be , if God is Unborn.————
When the site says that God is without form and unborn it means that the site owners dont believe in idol worship or human worship unlike Muslims who worship Kaba and Muhammad along with Allah.
————– Answer these questions if u have the guts!!!!————–
Islam is the most coward cult of all times which does not allow non Muslims to preach their religion in Islamic countries but beg for the freedom of speech in non Muslim countries. So the world knows who have guts and who wets the pant 🙂
@T. Shaikh do not give the communal harmony shit to us give it to your Kashmiri Muslims and Pakistan Muslims brother who are busy killing Hindus and terrorizing Hindus. We should give the same medicine to Pakistani Migrants who cannot sing national song, who have qualms raising Indian flag but no qualms in raising pakistani flags in the mini pakistani which they created in India.
As CHANAKYA said old woman will always be loyal to her husband because she has no other option likewise muslims today are in minority so will show off as patriotic but when they reach 30% or 40% then they will show their true colors. It was the Muslims who did the Godhra carnage burnt Hindus woman and children and Hindus retaliated and Hindus will retaliate 1000 times if this happens again, and this gave result because Muslim did not dare to attack Hindus in Babri Masjid Verdict because they nicely know what will happen to them. If MUSLIMS CANNOT FOLLOW UNIFORM CIVIL CODE THEN WHY SHOULD HINDUS FOLLOW SECULARISM.
@T Shaikh LOL Muslim themselves worship STONES(KABA, SAFA, MARWAH) DEAD BODIES (DARGAH) and call Hindus idol worshipers. Hindus consider idols as symbol of God as your allah told in Koran Safa and Marwah are his symbols aka idols and only his symbols should be circumambulated so Kaba or Hajre Aswad is also a symbol or idol of allah, Muslims themselves worship stones then call Hindus idol worshippers LOL it is the biggest joke.
@T sheikh
Your Quote,”Who r u to decide as to who wud stay in India?” Un wuote. We hindus are in overwhelming majority, we decide, you dont.
You wiped out all hindus from pakistan, bangladesh and kashmir. Ofcourse we got a right to decide who stays in India, and we can enforce our right .
Your Quote,”India will be nowhere coz Muslims are the backbone of India. ” Unquote
Plzzz gimme a break. India will progress and prosper WITHOUT these scum , we are an overpopulated country anyway.
We hindus decide, you dont. majority rules, SIMPLE.
@ deepak
Hope u have understood that v dont worship idols. Quran does not say that Safa & Marwa are symbols of God.So stoooooooooooooooooooop making wrong statements.
u talk about following a uniform civil code. dear, v muslims dont have to worry about following a uniform code. It is the Hindus who have to worry. Coz Hindus themselves cant follow it. there are so many sects in Hinduism and if u go to any part of India, there will be a different rule of a different thing in hindu community. So dis is d biggggggest joke!!!
@ identity crisis
first of all it is not ur right to wipe us out of India.If u think u can enforce ur right to wipe out muslims from India that show it. I challenge u.
Dont make a fun of urself. Muslims are a major part of India and if it was so easy to wipe us out, y didnt u do it in so many years. lolzzzzz
@ Kalbhairav
u said u wudnt reply me. so y r u replying me dude. do ur work. get lost!!!
@Shakih:
I probably changed my mind. Got a problem with that?
In any case, your post provided me with a chance to point out another set of Islamic atrocities. Are you proud of those? Let us hear you condemn invading Mughals for what they did.
Hopefully, if not you, some other Muslim going through these messages will be ashamed of his legacy and junk the original Mein Kampf – the Quran.
Namaste T Shaikh
Your aggressive disrespect proves two points : 1) you need to grow up 2) whatever Kalbhairav said is is indeed correct.
@ kalbhairav
No no i do not have any problem. In fact i believe in reasoning and logical argument unlike u people.
And i dont condemn Mughals at all. But do u condemn the praises India gets because of its rich Mughal history??
@ Indian Agnostic
Seems like u do not have any point to make silly billy. Grow up, grow up.
@Shaikh:
Please indulge me, if you will, and write *explicitly* that despite the sacking of Nalanda and burning the libraries (another link) by Bakhtiyar Khilji, you do NOT condemn the Mughals for this. Yes?
T Shaikh
———–Hope u have understood that v dont worship idols. Quran does not say that Safa & Marwa are symbols of God.So stoooooooooooooooooooop making wrong statements.———
1. Dont know about him but I didn’t understand that. You worship Kaba idol and graves. You cant pray without bowing to a stone, can you? This is idol worship.
2. What is your problem if Hindus do idol worship?
———–v muslims dont have to worry about following a uniform code.———–
Really? Who begs for different laws in the matters of marriage and divorce?
————-It is the Hindus who have to worry. Coz Hindus themselves cant follow it.———-
All hindus follow same laws for your information. Its Muslims who want different laws in same country.
———-there are so many sects in Hinduism and if u go to any part of India, there will be a different rule of a different thing in hindu community.———–
Seen any Hindu sect blowing the shrine of other’s calling them as Kafir like Sunnis do to Shia, Wahabi do to Sunni and Sufi, everyone does to Qadiyanis, Deobandis do to Barelvi and vice versa…? Now this is not a joke 🙁
———-first of all it is not ur right to wipe us out of India.If u think u can enforce ur right to wipe out muslims from India that show it. I challenge u.——–
Yes! It was the right of Ghazi bastards of Arabs only to wipe out Hindus from their own land. Majority can always wipe out the minority in any country. But for that majority needs to be the follower of Satan and rapist pedophile. So hindus wont do it. Dont worry
———-Dont make a fun of urself. Muslims are a major part of India———
in which field? Go to any police station and see the list of most wanted, you will get which part of the country you have majority in. 🙂
———–For ur kind information, India has prospered the most under the Muslim rule i.e Mughals. They never exploited India and in their reign v had been prospering.———
India witnessed the pillars of cut heads and massacre of whole cities like Delhi many times in the rule of Taimur and gay Babur. These bastards who raped your ancestors and made them forcefully Muslims are the hero of Muslims now. Dont you feel shame when you praise the rapists of your mothers and sisters?
———-Hindus are quite happy in Pakistan.———
Yes, those happy Hindus are now 1% of the total Pakistani population but suppressed Muslims in India are growing at the faster rate than Hindus of India! O fool! Get some Madarsa forum to show your non sense where it can be welcomed.
————But I feel people like u want muslims to flee from India.———–
Of course, those who want gay Babur’s mosque back and hail ghazi bastards their heroes have no right to live in India. Muslims like Ashfaq Ullah Khan are the only Muslims we love, who are patriots. They have same right over our beloved country as Hindus.
———But it was our ancestors who wanted to die along with their Hindu brothers here in India and hence they stayed here.——–
Is it? If majority of Muslims wanted to live with their Hindu Brothers (enjoy Taqiyya 🙂 we know you consider Hindus worst of creatures and not brothers) then who demanded separate Pakistan? Why did not majority of Muslims oppose it?
————-But instead of praising them u people create confusions and riots.———–
All the riots in the Indian history have been started by Muslims.
———–Godhra was done by Hindus and to be frank and straight forward, the State itself sponsored the riots.———-
1. Who burned the train?
2. What Arabs and Turks had been doing here in India for almost 1000 years? Why dont Indians have half of their land (Afganistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh) and half of their people (residents of the earlier mentioned countries who had to leave Hindu Dharm forcefully) today?
——–Muslims never worship Kaba or Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). And I have said this before. So get ur facts staight. ——–
You worship Kaba and Muhammad, without any of these, your prayers are of no use 🙁 Parroting that “we dont worship Kaba and muhammad” wont make it correct.
————If u dont understand Islam it is ur problem, not ours…..————–
Did any of us say we dont understand islam? Did any of us say we have problem? Has someone invited you to give your shit here? If no, just collect it from here and get lost
@Vajra: “Go to any police station and see the list of most wanted, you will get which part of the country you have majority in”.
For your information:
From http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-05-17/hyderabad/28293030_1_mecca-masjid-blasts-malegaon-blast-ajmer-blasts
“HYDERABAD: With the authorities now stating that a HINDU MILITANT ORGANIZATION was behind the Ajmer and Mecca Masjid blasts, some police officials are of the view that a SOUL SEARCHING should begin in the state force as to WHY the leads to this effect given way back were not investigated by the local authorities.
Some are also wondering as to why MUSLIM BOYS ARE STILL BEING HOUNDED by the police despite the fact that the courts acquitted them on all counts of their involvements in the Mecca Masjid and twin blasts in the city long ago. “Such behaviour raises serious questions as to whether the state police force is communally biased,” said a police officer.
The Mecca Masjid blast took place in the city on May 18, 2007. As early as November 2007, the investigations established that the SIM cards that were found in the timers (Nokia 6030) of the two unexploded bombs found at Mecca Masjid and Ajmer dargah respectively were purchased in Jharkhand and the same fake ID card had been used in both instances.
The fake name on the ID card was traced to Babulal Yadav of Jharkhand while the photo on the ID was that of Tarak Nath Pramanik, a Noida-based Yoga instructor. However, the investigations revealed that both of them were innocent and the authorities could not pursue the matter any further.
But in 2008, after the Malegaon blast in Maharashtra, the ATS rounded up Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and Lt Colonel Srikant Prasad Purhoit, said to be activists of Hindu fundamentalist groups. “During interrogation, Purohit confessed that apart from triggering the Malegaon blast, they were responsible for the Mecca Masjid and Ajmer blasts. This information was passed on to various agencies including the AP Police but nobody showed any specific interest in following it up,” said an ATS official.
Now, Rajasthan home minister Shanti Kumar Dhariwal has said that Abhinav Bharat was behind the Ajmer and Mecca Masjid blasts. Further, the prime suspect, Sunil Joshi, was a close associate of Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya, the prime suspects in the Malegoan blast. Also, Devender Gupta and Chandrasekhar Patidar, the two arrested suspects, were members of a right wing Hindu organisation, it has been claimed.
In fact, since the beginning, neither the Special Investigation Cell (SIC) nor Hyderabad Police or the CBI thought of investigating the possible role of Hindu militant groups in the blasts.”
The following is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Masjid_bombing
On November 19, 2010, the Central Bureau of Investigation produced the preacher Swami Asimanand before the court in connection with the Makkah Masjid blast in Hyderabad in May 2007. The court remanded Swami Asimanand to CBI custody till 30th of November and was taken to Chanchalguda Jail. He was nabbed in Haridwar on Friday and was brought to Hyderabad today. The Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate in Delhi had granted CBI the transit remand of Swami for two days. Other cases that he has been linked with include 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings, 2008 Malegoan & Modasa bombing and Ajmer Sharif Dargah blast.
On January 15, the confession of Swami Aseemanand was published by Tehelka and CNN-IBN implicating various members of Saffron terror outfits in other cases such as Ajmer Sharif Dargah blast, 2006 Malegaon blasts, 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings, 2008 Malegoan & Modasa bombing[29]. The confession was done in front of a magistrate citing the guilt he felt after seeing INNOCENT MUSLIM BOYS arrested in the case by the police. In the confession he states:
“Sir, when I was lodged in Chanchalguda district jail in Hyderabad, one of my co-inmates was Kaleem. During my interaction with Kaleem I learnt that he was previously arrested in the Makkah Masjid bomb blast case and he had to spend about oneand- a-half years in prison. During my stay in jail, Kaleem helped me a lot and used to serve me by bringing water, food, etc for me. I was very moved by Kaleem’s good conduct and my conscience asked me to do prayschit (penance) by making a confessional statement so that real culprits can be punished and no innocent has to suffer.”
Exclusively to Vajra: I hope now you got the reason for your above claim. I would advise you to use discretion while spewing your hatred. Only a hollow mind and a shallow heart give room to hatred.
Also stop claiming your religion doesn’t advocate terrorism. There’s more evidence available on the net to substantiate this. And do not say the act of a few individuals doesn’t constitute the preaching of a religion. Because you do not want to believe that for Islam.
To general readers of Satyagni: I honestly believe Hinduism or any other religion does not preach hatred as such. Though I am a muslim, I have some very good friends from amongst the Hindu & Christian communities. I sometimes wonder how come they are so different from people on board here.
Namaste true Indian
The following is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#During_Islamic_rule_of_the_Indian_sub-continent
—————The Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent led to widespread carnage because Muslims regarded the Hindus as infidels and therefore slaughtered and converted millions of Hindus. Will Durant argued in his 1935 book “The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage” (page 459):
“ The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period. ”
There is no official estimate of the total death toll of Hindus at the hands of Muslims.
Prof. K.S. Lal, suggests a calculation in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India which estimates that between the years 1000 AD and 1500 AD the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million. Even those Hindus who converted to Islam were not immune from persecution, which was illustrated by the Muslim Caste System in India as established by Ziauddin al-Barani in the Fatawa-i Jahandari. where they were regarded as “Ajlaf” caste and subjected to severe discrimination by the “Ashraf” castes.———————-
I dont think this bloody conquest of India by your Arab masters including millions of killing and rape (the victims unfortunately were your own ancestors whom you have forgotten completely) can ever be outnumbered even by thousands of Mecca or Malegaon blasts put together. I strongly condemn those who did it and feel they have damaged our country a lot. But if I compare these with Islamic onslaught of Hindus for over thousand years, its nothing. And you dont have the guts to condemn your Arab masters who were the rapists of your own ancestors.
———–I hope now you got the reason for your above claim.———–
I already had the reason for my claim 🙂 Did I ask anyone to help find it for me?
———-I would advise you to use discretion while spewing your hatred. Only a hollow mind and a shallow heart give room to hatred.———–
Quran calls non Muslims worst of creatures, Is this love? If so, I love you and Jihadis like you the most 🙂
————Also stop claiming your religion doesn’t advocate terrorism.———–
I never claimed so, did I? It is rather you who accepted that 😉 Read your words- “I honestly believe Hinduism or any other religion does not preach hatred”
———— There’s more evidence available on the net to substantiate this.———–
Is it? How many people have died in the attacks by Muslims in the world and how many by Hindus, world knows that! Some 53 people were killed in Mecca masjid and Malegaon against 160+ alone killed by Jihadi attack in Mumbai. So collect your evidence from everywhere, it will be you who will be loosing everytime 🙁
———And do not say the act of a few individuals doesn’t constitute the preaching of a religion. Because you do not want to believe that for Islam.———-
1. It is not proven in court yet who is the perpetrator of these two blasts. So no question of me accepting this act by any hindu. The day it is proven, I will ask for the punishment for whoever did it.
2. When we say Islam is the religion of terrorism, it means Quran and Hadith contain these teachings. We have never talked about what Muslims do. But we know that Osama, Qasab, Mullah Umar, Masood Azhar are all going to enjoy houris of heaven as per Quran.
————-I have some very good friends from amongst the Hindu & Christian communities.————
Because you dont follow Quran 🙁
———– I sometimes wonder how come they are so different from people on board here.———–
Because they also have not read Quran 🙂 and most importantly they AND FORTUNATELY YOU dont know the following
Quran 3:28- “LET NOT THE BELIEVERS TAKE FOR FRIENDS OR HELPERS UNBELIEVERS RATHER THAN BELIEVERS: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that YE MAY GUARD YOURSELF FROM THEM. But Allah cautions you [To remember] Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.”
best regards FRIEND 😉
@ Vajra
Just like Deepak u too are unable to understand Quran & Islam. The verse u quoted does not say dont make Non muslim frnds. It means that if u rely totally on non muslim frnds u will start following what they do, meaning idol worship or believing in more than 1 God, etc…
It means that if u have non muslim frnds u shud strictly follow and adhere to ur religion. It does not say dont be good to them.
And i have a hindu frnd who herself asked me to give her a copy of Quran. And she really liked reading it and made her mother too read it. And her mother too has read the whole Quran and she too liked it. May be she has more understanding than u, Vajra. And the Quran too says that it is a book for people of understanding.
Now u talk about muslims killing people of other community. I feel pity on u for ur limited knowledge.
Can u tell me who has killed the majority of people in the name of God???
Ok i shud tell u dat as ur knowledge is toooo limited. It is Hitler who killed 6 million Jews. And 4 ur info, Hitler was a Christian. Nw can u tell me who is the second in the list???
Haha, he is Ashoka, who killed more than 10 lac people. And he was a hindu at that time. Nw u tell me which muslim has killed the majority of people?? KKKKKKKKKK i will answer this too yaar cz i knw u do not have any answer. It is Osama Bin laden who is supposed to have killed 184 people in September 11 plane crash. And for ur info it is still not proved whether he really was behind the attacks. He still remains a Prime Suspect only.
And I can give u a thousand examples where muslims have been killed and muslims are at attack by non muslims in the world. But u shud be interested in reading it. And i feel u read only what u feel like readine viz the matter which goes Against Islam and which is For Hinduism.
So braoden ur mind, dear…
T Shaikh
———–The verse u quoted does not say dont make Non muslim frnds. It means that if u rely totally on non muslim frnds u will start following what they do, meaning idol worship or believing in more than 1 God, etc…———–
I leave it to the readers to decide what this verse says. It unequivocally says- “LET NOT THE BELIEVERS TAKE FOR FRIENDS UNBELIEVERS”. I couldn’t find any concept of even “partially relying’ forget about totally relying as you wrote 🙂
——–It means that if u have non muslim frnds u shud strictly follow and adhere to ur religion. It does not say dont be good to them.———-
It only means that dont make non Muslims your friends, simple.
———And i have a hindu frnd who herself asked me to give her a copy of Quran. And she really liked reading it and made her mother too read it. And her mother too has read the whole Quran and she too liked it. May be she has more understanding than u, Vajra. And the Quran too says that it is a book for people of understanding.———
I have a friend who has left Islam along with his wives and kids. He and his wife are wiser than your friend for sure 🙂
———-It is Hitler who killed 6 million Jews. And 4 ur info, Hitler was a Christian. Nw can u tell me who is the second in the list???
Haha, he is Ashoka, who killed more than 10 lac people. And he was a hindu at that time.———-
Let anyone from Christians and Hindus declare Hitler and Ashoka the greatest man ever walked on earth or the last prophet or Ghazi or Dharm Yoddha and then see what we do. We would be doing same to them what we are doing to Muhammad and his terrorist ghazis now, i.e. exposing their reality to the world.
———–It is Osama Bin laden who is supposed to have killed 184 people in September 11 plane crash. And for ur info it is still not proved whether he really was behind the attacks. He still remains a Prime Suspect only.————-
He is a self confessed terrorist who has released the threatening tapes many times against Jew Israel, Christian US, UK and European countries, and Hindu India. So even if he is not behind 9/11, he cant be innocent and he remains a terrorist and unfortunately your soft stand towards him is something which should be noted carefully by sickular people of the world for whom every religion teaches same things.
———And I can give u a thousand examples where muslims have been killed and muslims are at attack by non muslims in the world.———-
Why Muslims started conquering others’ land ? Why they attacked Persia, India, Europe etc? And why weeping on the retaliation from others now?
———-So braoden ur mind, dear…———–
Its your turn to think through your narrow mind whether broadening of mind lies in calling others worst of creatures (Quran calls non Muslims with this name) or in opposing this hate ideology.
@ Vajra
U say ur frnd left Islam along with kids and wives. So was he inspired by Budhha cz Budhha did d same. So he accepted Buddism huh??
Whichever religion he must have then accepted did not teach him about his family responsibility. His new religion did not teach him the responsibilities of life.Islam is the religion of life and does not preach celibacy like Hinduism, Christianity, Jainism or Buddism. So i can only feel pity for him.
Will u plz elaborate on ur words of exposing our reality. Really, u wanna expose us. Oh thank u, thank u. If u expose our reality i.e how good and loving v are, u will really save our time of doing Da’wah. Though da’wah is a job every muslim shud do. I really appreciate u yaar. cz i am a very busy person. So expose our awsumm teachings and the beautiful preachings of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
Muslims never attacked any country. It was the West which did that. And u dont criticize them. But u wanna criticize Muslims. Gandhiji said that Hindus & Muslims are the two eyes of India. V agree to it but seems like u dont agree with Gandhiji.
And Quran never says that non muslims are the worst creatures. So will u stoooopppp speaking Rubbish !!!!!!!
Vajra,
And if u really talk about converting, then let me tell u there are more people reverting to Islam than converting to Hinduism. So i can too consider all of them wiser than ur frnd!! And i use the word reverting to Islam coz every child is born as a muslim As our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said.But due to Family or regional influence starts following a different religion. So who is running after them with a sword. Tell me???
Again i say stooppp speaking RUBBISH!!!
T Shaikh
———–And if u really talk about converting,———-
I never talk about converting from my side 🙂 Because they are fools who believe in the criterion of majority or fastest growing to be the best. They forget chickens in poultry farms or rats are well ahead in numbers than humans. But that alone does not make people believe chickens or rats better than humans 🙂
I told you my friend’s story just to educate you that I can also give the stories, or even create the fake ones 🙂 So better talk logic not people
————And i use the word reverting to Islam coz every child is born as a muslim As our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said.————
So every child is born circumcised, right?
———– But due to Family or regional influence starts following a different religion.———
When someone remains Kafir due to family or regional influences, why give them hellfire as punishment? After all it is Allah who destined him/her for hell, who is the culprit of spreading Kufra then?
T Shaikh
———–U say ur frnd left Islam along with kids and wives. So was he inspired by Budhha cz Budhha did d same. So he accepted Buddism huh??————
He left Islam and his wife and kids too 🙂
———–Will u plz elaborate on ur words of exposing our reality. ————
Thanks for accepting that you are proud to be the part of the gang (that is why you used “we”) of rapists of your own mothers and sisters- The Arab invaders, whom I wrote we expose 🙂
———–Muslims never attacked any country. It was the West which did that.———–
Madarsa historian at work 🙂 What the hell Arabs were doing here in India with their armies? Why they attacked India? Did we attack Arab? No, then why those bastards killed, raped and enslaved innumerable people here?
———Gandhiji said that Hindus & Muslims are the two eyes of India. V agree to it but seems like u dont agree with Gandhiji.———
I dont agree with him. Now?
———And Quran never says that non muslims are the worst creatures. So will u stoooopppp speaking Rubbish !!!!!!!———
What will you do if I give you the verse?
@True Indian for Muslims even Osama Bin Laden is innocent. If Muslims feel Indian government and indian police is biased against them then why don’t Pakistani Migrants aka Indian Muslims not going and settling in pakistan. DURING PARTITION THERE WAS A TREATY BETWEEN NEHRU AND JINNAH THAT HINDUS WILL BE NOT HARASSED WHO WANT TO LIVE IN PAKISTAN AND IN RETURN MUSLIMS WILL NOT HARASSED IN INDIA but as the treaty is broken by pakistan by butchering Hindus in pakistan so we have no need to tolerate Muslim scums in our region.
EVEN SUPREME COURT HAS ACCEPTED THAT GOVERNMENT IS IMPOSING SECULARISM ONLY ON HINDUS BUT NOT ON MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS.
@Deepak
You are absolutely right. There was something called nehru liaqat pact, which says the same thing, about protecting minorities in each others countries. I am trying to find a copy of that pact. Where can I get it?
JInnah also gave another theory that “theory of mutual hostages.” How come the muslims conveniently remember “two nation theory” and equally conveniently forget, theory of mutual hostages.
Incidentally you and hindu militant are the only two people who these muslims understand.
That T sheikh has not bothered replying to my quiestions.
@ Vajra
1.Had prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) been a pedophile, he surely would have not waited for 3 years for consummation of Aishah in marriage and on the other hand, Aishah to whom such an act happened, she rather than hating the prophet, loves him dearly and becomes his greatest female follower and the greatest female scholar of Islam, which surely represents that she strongly followed his teachings and dearly loved him. Further, the hadith quoted in (S.Bukhari 5:58:234) also shows that the women of Ansar around Aishah were also happy at the marriage of Aishah and gave her best wishes on her marriage and in no way were concerned for the age of Aishah..
2. When the Hijrah took place in 622, Aishah did not travel with the Prophet but in a group led by her half-brother Abdullah and Talhah ibn Ubaidullah, a group that included her mother Umm Ruman and her sister Asma. (They left / migrated after Prophet Muhammad and Abu Bakr already reached Medina)
Meanwhile, the Prophet’s other new wife Sawdah lodged in Medina with the Prophet and his daughters. Aishah stayed with her parents, first in a house, then in the suburb of Sunh. The mosque was soon constructed in Medina (Called Masjid Nabvi now – The mosque of the Prophet), and alongside it the small private apartments for the Prophet’s family. Sawdah was installed in one of them, but the Prophet said nothing about settling Aishah in one. This began to worry Abu Bakr, and he inquired the reason for the delay. The Prophet replied that it was because he could not afford his marriage portion to Aishah. Abu Bakr, eager to see his daughter married, paid it for the Prophet himself. (Ibn Sa’d, volume VIII, page 43.)
Why should Abu Bakr have been so concerned about the slowness of the Prophet moving his daughter into his household as a wife ? The parents of Aisha (Hazrat Abu Bakr and Umm Ruman bint Amr) would have surely not given Aisha to Muhammad if she was of such young age. If she was not nine but a good deal older, the gentle chiding of his friend would make far more sense. Neither the Prophet nor Abu Bakr nor Khawlah (one who proposed Aishah for marriage to Prophet Muhammad) or others raised the issue of Aishah’s minor age. Had she been only six, Abu Bakr or at least her mother or Khawlah (being woman) might have raised this as an objection, even though they would have obviously been pleased to consider the match. The one objection he (Abu Bakr) did raise was that of his own relationship of brotherhood with the Prophet; he had thought that Aishah could not be married to the Prophet as she was regarded as his niece. In reply to this, the Prophet made it crystal clear that a person who was not an actual blood relative could never count in law as if he was one, no matter how close they were. He sent a message to the effect that Abu Bakr was his brother-in-Islam not a brother by blood, and this could never be a hurdle to settling a marriage.
(Refer Sahih Bukhari, vol 7, book 62, hadith 18 for the objection by Hazrat Abu Bakr.)
Vajra, So this is enough evidence to prove that Aisha was much older at the time of her marriage and Prophet Muhammed was not a pedophile. And it was Khawlah who proposed for this marriage. Also u r ignoring that Khadija(r.a) herself gave her hand to the Prophet. At that time He was some 23 years old and Khadija was 45 years old. Y wud a young man like Muhammed marry n old lady like Khadija if He was taken so much by lust (nausbillah). It was bcz of his unique personality that he agreed to marry her and this was also the reason which impressed Khadija( may peace be on her).
Now regarding u not being a human being. U knw i truly feel that u have received training from Arun shuri. U quote Quranic verses out of context just like he does, in order to misguide people. I told u dat d Quran says human beings are the best of creation. Now if d verse u quoted talks about the worst of creatures dat is bcz they lie and blaspheme. Remember hw u lied to me about dat story!! So u shud consider the whole of Quran rather than quoting verses out of context.
Regarding cuming back to d original home, I said I did not understand ur statement bcz I was already in my original home. If I had to cum back to my original home of ancestor’s, I wud prefer cuming back to d home of my 1st ancestor i.e Prophet Adam (pbuh). Y wud I follow my ancestor’s who came much later and followed a wrong path????? And if i really had to follow Hinduism, can u tell me which God I shud beleive 4rm d crores of Hindu Gods. I find it wayyyyyyy tooooooo confusing. So dats d reason I follow Islam. It was the religion of Adam, all the prophets who came later and of the last Prophet i.e Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).Islam was present since time immemorable. And it spread in its complete form with Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
Now again, if Islam was spread forcefully, y wud i and millions of muslims in India love it. Similarly, if Aisha wud not have been liking Prophet muhammed, y wud she be loving him so much. And here i wud also point out dat women at dat time were more physically & mentally developed then today.
So ur earlier claim regarding choosing between the killers of Gandhiji and the killers of ancestor’s has no foundation at all. Now, it is u who shud accept defeat and not me!!!!! Alhamdulillah.
As to whether i m cuming closer to Satyagni, I hope u hv read my article 4rm d beginning. By no means it seems i m cuming closer to Satyagni. But i m well assured dat u have not yet read ur vedas & u r reading Quran. If u wud hv read ur vedas u wudnt be asking me silly question like this.
Its amusing to see hw all of u r trying to convince me about Hinduism viz wid so much of struggle and efforts. But on d other hand Islam is spreading on its own. Alhamdullah. So u r petrified just like the US with d growing power of ISLAM.
@ identity crisis
dear, whoever u are. Truly speaking i read ur comment dated March 22, only today. I was busy answering Vajra. Now i m not a coward.Praise be to Allah. if i had been a coward i wudnt hav cum back on dis site again and again.
U question me about Hindus being wiped out of Pakistan. What if I ask u about Veer Savarkar who was the true culprit behind the partition of India or about d gujarat riots or about hundreds of innocent muslims languishing in d jails?? So u shud ask d correct ques to d correct person. But still I will try to answer all of u insha Allah. First of all it was not the muslims who broke the treaty. To be true, Veer Savarkar sowd the seeds of Hindutva wayyy back before partition. And it was this reason y Jinnah wanted a separate nation for Muslims. Now all the muslims in India believe dat dis decision of Jinnah was incorrect as muslims are not weak as to be suppressed by dis Sangh Parivar. And Gandhiji too was against partition. Infact he was too upset to hear dis. He beleived in harmony and v muslims too beleive dat Hindus , Muslims, Sikhs , Christians, etc shud stay peacefully. And i pray 4 d same. If its d will of any Hindu to accept Islam, then be it by his own will.
Now i will tell u what i have seen myself. During ramzaan, thousands of Kashmiris cum to Mumbai or flee to other parts of India. They are harrassed by the military, they dont have employment, they have no electricity, no money, no security, nothing. Pointing out to each other is not d solution. Its both way round. Not only dis, if there is an attack on a mosque, police will first catch a muslims. Here, in kashmir, again there is muslim majority, but u can see wats happening to muslims in kashmir. So stop thinking that its only muslims who kill and create chaos in muslim majority areas
Now u say dat u created Gujarat and Mumbai chaos. So u agree dat u did it?? so u r from dat group and u r saying dis on the net. In front of everyone????? So police is after u huh???
And I wud like to knw wht HM said to me. And i wudnt be upset reading it. And u knw y?
Bcz of dis Hadis:
There was a Jewish lady who threw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day, she didn‘t do it. Some people informed that she was sick. The prophet went to inquire about her health.This lady surprised by this gesture of the Prophet, ended up accepting Islam. So, that‘s how you respond to people who attack you, with forgiveness and with kindness.
@ T sheikh
I am sure you are tamanna sheikh of indiatimes. Believe me, HM is the only person, suitable for yu. he talked of gang raping muslim women. Like happened in some village in kashmir by Indian army. And dont give me that jewish lady garbage stuff, I know how many ppl your false prophet killed.
Before 1989, there was no problem in kashmir, in 1989, they wiped out the hindu minority, and they expact the Indian army NOT to harass them? Go and teach yuor secularism to them tell them to resettle hindus in kashmir, then maybe army will stop harssing them. Or what happened to hindu minority in kashmir, we can replay in other parts of India. I am from THAT group, shivsena, and I am saying in front of everybody on net. And no, neither the police nor you can do anything about it. And your ARROGANT attitude is spreading hatred in my heart, because you dont have any sympathy for hindus only kashmiri muslims.
Go and destroy pakistan, make it into a secular country like before 1947, otherwise we reserve the right to retaliate (qisas) in other parts of India. What happens to my kaum I do to your kaum. Like narendra modi said, every action has a opposite reaction. Can you save yourself?
Namaste Brother T Shaikh
1. Sahih Bukhari vol 7 book 62 hadith 64
Narrated `Aisha: that the PROPHET MARRIED HER WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
So there is no dispute over Aisha’s age. She was 6 when Muhammad married her. Now tell me why should not one call such person pedophile?
2. Sahih Bukhari is more authentic than Ibn Sad. So no reason why its interpretation should be given weightage over bukhari. See 1.
————-Vajra, So this is enough evidence to prove that Aisha was much older at the time of her marriage and Prophet Muhammed was not a pedophile.————
And I have given you more than enough counter evidences that Aisha was 6 at her marriage and thus Muhammad was….
———-Y wud a young man like Muhammed marry n old lady like Khadija if He was taken so much by lust (nausbillah).———-
I dont have any problems with his marriage with mother Khadija. It happens that people start with noble character and get changed to evil ones.
————I told u dat d Quran says human beings are the best of creation. Now if d verse u quoted talks about the worst of creatures dat is bcz they lie and blaspheme. —————
Quran says that humans are best of creation and then says non believers are worst of creatures. This only means Quran considers only Muslims as humans and rest as worst of creatures. Where is the context coming? Does every non believer lies and blasphemes?
———-Y wud I follow my ancestor’s who came much later and followed a wrong path?????————
Now its proven that Vedas are purely monotheistic and no idol worship is required in Vedic Dharma, how it is a wrong path? And Islam is proven to be wrong in many aspects- it has its own idol worship, human worship, grave worship etc. So why not coming back to Vedas which do not ask you to believe in any human (like Muhammad in Islam) in addition to Eeshvar, to bow down to any stone or direction (kaba in Islam)?
———-And if i really had to follow Hinduism, can u tell me which God I shud beleive 4rm d crores of Hindu Gods.———-
Those are fools who say Vedas believe in crores of Gods. To know the actual concept of God in Vedas, please visit http://Satyagni.com/2708/understanding-vedic-god/
———- I find it wayyyyyyy tooooooo confusing.———–
Please let me know your confusions, will try to address them.
————–Now again, if Islam was spread forcefully, y wud i and millions of muslims in India love it. ————-
Because you have deliberately been kept ignorant of your history. This is a kind of mental slavery in which one looses the power of analysis. Do you know the “great” Babur whom Indian Muslims unfortunately hail as Ghazi used to make pillars of cut heads of natives (Hindus obviously) of Afganistan and today’s Pakistan to fill terror in the hearts of the people. And it was something which was more than sufficient to force them to convert to Islam. He proudly writes many places in his autobiography Baburnama that he made the land of Kafirs- the land of Eeman by terrorizing the hearts of Kafirs. 4000 heads were alone cut in Bajaur (in West Pakistan now) and as result whole natives were converted to Islam as soon as the show of pillars of these cut heads used to end. Now think, how many of your ancestors had to have their heads cut and as result their family became Muslim. And now the victims are praising the perpetrators 🙁
————So ur earlier claim regarding choosing between the killers of Gandhiji and the killers of ancestor’s has no foundation at all. ———-
Please think again after my previous point.
@ Vajra
Brother T Shaikh????Lolzzz m not a male. I m a female. And i have said dis b4 in dis forum. Dis shows hw close u r with Satyagni. And if u dont mind can i ask u sumthing. Are u amale or a female? well u can jus ignore dis ques but i was just wondering about d name Vajra. And i find no reason u not answerin dis ques.
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
U have no strenght left to answer me…u dont have prob wid Khadija but u have prob wid Aisha who loved Prophet Muhammad, who bcame one of d biggest female scholars of Islam, who herself taught thousands of male scholars about Islam. This is crazzzzy. And I have given u enough evidence on dis topic. If u want more. I will give u.
Thats wat m saying dear, vedas dont speak of idol worship but Hindus do follow it.And even if I didnt have confusion, i wudnt follow it. cz Quran is the last, Perfect, Complete book sent for all human beings.
And regarding dat verse, yes nonmuslims lie. And u wanna knw hw? jus like u lied to me. just hw they say dat vedas dont talk of idol worship and do idol worship.
So i still stand by what I said before.
Namaste T Shaikh
u dont have prob wid Khadija but u have prob wid Aisha who loved Prophet Muhammad, who bcame one of d biggest female scholars of Islam
Muhammad did not marry khadija — Khadija married him when he was her employee- so stop thinking of this as some great deed of Muhammad.
when gabriel choked Muhammad in the cave, he thought he was demon possessed.It’s Khadija who comforted the fearful ‘prophet’.
She was his boss and an independent pre-islamc business woman.That’s why Muhammad could not marry anyone while khadija was alive.She was no Muslim woman who would take any misogynist non-sense from anybody.
Now about Aisha..rather than embarrassed and apologetic about lying through your teeth about aisha’s marriage to Muhammad..you are blaming others of lying ..typical of islamist apologists.
wasn’t it you who said abu bakr asked muhammad to marry aisha ..slam dunked by a sahih hadit. reference which shows that it was muhammad who asked for baby aisha’s hand in marriage and abu bakr was taken aback by this request
hope this clears your delirious laughter 🙂
Sister T Shaikh
I did not read your post where you wrote you are female, so sorry for that. I am male. But I couldn’t understand how does writing you as brother make me close to Satyagni
————U have no strenght left to answer me…———
Please let me know about those questions which I couldn’t answer.
————u dont have prob wid Khadija but u have prob wid Aisha————–
I neither have problem with mother Khadija nor with Aisha. I have problem with Muhammad who chose a 6 year old kid for the marriage.
————who bcame one of d biggest female scholars of Islam, who herself taught thousands of male scholars about Islam.————
Surprised to hear a half intelligent creature (women as per Islam are deficient in religion and lack common sense, its not my belief) taught creatures of more intelligence, that too something which they are deficient in ! Do you think someone who could not pray or even touch Quran in her menses would have taught Islam to others?
————And I have given u enough evidence on dis topic. If u want more. I will give u.————-
Evidence of what? Do you remember what was the topic? Topic was that why Muhammad married 6 year old kid, why Quran talks non believers as worst of creatures, why cant non Muslims become friends of Muslims etc. And you have been proven wrong in all these.
————–Thats wat m saying dear, vedas dont speak of idol worship but Hindus do follow it.————
So is this fault of Vedas or Hindus? By the same logic you should give up Quran also! Dont Muslims worship graves? Is it mentioned in Quran? Why many Muslims kill each other? Why they fight others? Why they attacked others? Is this what Quran teaches?
————–And even if I didnt have confusion, i wudnt follow it. cz Quran is the last, Perfect, Complete book sent for all human beings.————
1. What wrong did you see in the first book (Vedas) that you needed last? Have you read Vedas or related literature? Please let me know what wrong you saw in Vedas.
2. Any logic behind Quran being last, perfect and complete other than blind belief?
————And regarding dat verse, yes nonmuslims lie.————
So you accept that all non Muslims lie and thus all of them are worst of creatures as per that verse? But few comments ago you even refused to accept that Quran has any such verse 🙁
———–And u wanna knw hw? jus like u lied to me.————
Where?
———– just hw they say dat vedas dont talk of idol worship and do idol worship.————
I dont do idol worship. I have never bowed down to any idol be it of Ram or Krishna or Kaba of Mecca. I believe in Eeshvar who is One and who alone will provide me bliss with whom I dont need to associate any partner like Muhammad, who is associated in Muslims’ prayers with Allah. What about Muslims who fight the idolaters and condemn their idol worship but themselves bow down to Kaba idol, kiss it, circumambulate it? So Muslims are bigger liars as well as hypocrites.
So Quran teaches you to associate partner (Muhammad) with Allah as well as idol worship. So the only way out of this Shirk is to believe in Vedas.
And you remained silent on the forced conversions by Islamic Heroes like Babur. Why?
Satyagni’s Claim . There is not even one single verse in Vedas that demeans women.
Satyagni is clearly lying here or he is simply unaware of the many verses in the Vedas and other hindu scriptures, which speak negatively of women to such an extent that they are considered as breakfast plate, objects of lust, personal property, sex machine, deficient in intellect and much more.
Satyagni has issued a challenge that he will quit Vedic Dharma if someone points out to him a single verse in Vedas which demeans women. I am here providing just one verse which is sufficient for him to quit Vedic Dharma.
Crooked, extremely Crooked and Foul mouthed are the three forms of a woman. Experienced people know how to purify them. [Rigved 10-85-35]
http://www.islamhinduism.com/images/stories/demean.bmp
This is how modern-fabricated Vedas look at women. According to this verse its the nature of women to speak ill and crooked words. The translation is from Mr. Satyagni’s own home, i.e. Arya Samaj.
Namaste
I believe you are misled to think that Hadiths and false verses of Quran form part of Vedic scriptures, or you would not have issued such a statement. It is the Hadiths which claim that Hell is full of women. What Vedas have to say is described in detail in a series of articles on this site. Refer Woman section.
Now you have quoted from Rigveda 10.85.35 with a translation whose source is best known to you.
Had you quoted from some other Sukta, perhaps one could have given some significance to your intellect. But unfortunately you chose a wrong Sukta. Because this whole Sukta talks about greatness of an illuminating woman.
Actually the verses here have very deep meanings. They talk of physical phenomena, they talk of impact and duties of a rising star (intellectually sharp and growing entity) and they can be considered to also talk about a glorious woman.
Now let us see what the verse has to say if we take it to imply a woman.
To understand that let us also look at mantras before and after this mantra:
10.85.33: Sumangaleeh Iyam Vadhooh: This bride/ woman is prosperity and happiness incarnate. May we invite her to our home and give her utmost blessings and respect.
10.85.34:
Etat Trishtam- This causes burning
Etat Katukam – This causes hatred/ troubles
Apaashthavat – Worth keeping away
Vishwat – Like poison
Etat Attave Na Bhavati – Cannot be utilized for benefit
Suryah – This brilliant woman
Yah Brahma Vidyat – unless intelligent people understand her potential and act accordingly
Sah It Vaadhuyam – He alone benefits
In other words, unless the brilliant woman is given her due respect, liberty and opportunities by sensible people, this will cause hatred, destruction in society and act like a poison. She will then not bring her benefits. So one should stay away from demeaning or denigrating the brilliant woman.
10.85.35: Ashasanam – Strong resolve
Vishasanam – Unflinching dedication
Adhivikartanam – Fluency in communication skills
Sooryayah – Of woman
Pashyah Roopani – Natural traits
Taani Brahma Tu Shudhyanti – Intelligent person nurtures these traits for benefit of society.
It is obvious from these mantras that Vedas command all sensible people to respect women and give them opportunities to hone their natural skills through education and liberty. In a society where they are not given respect and nurture, violence, hatred persist. And the very strengths of women – resolve, dedication, fluency – become source of problems. Uncontrolled resolve turns into arrogance, Dedication turns into obstinacy, Fluency turns into uncontrolled speech, unless directed by education and nurture. This weakens the society.
We see this happening in all those societies of world where women are not given respect and opportunities. For example look at the Muslim world. Because of denigration of women and lack of women education, they are most violent, dangerous, undeveloped places in world. Look at Hindu society. because they sidelined women education and women rights, a lighthouse of world has gone down to such hapless situation as today. Look at western society. Because they commoditized women, there is gross dissatisfaction and breakdown of family values to extent that psychotic disorders exceed physical disorders.
Now next mantra, concludes the discussion:
10.85.36:
Gribhnami Te Saubhagatvaya Hastam – I accept your hand because you are source of prosperity
Yatha Maya Sah Jarad Ashti Asah – so that you provide me enlightenment till my old age
Bhagah Aryama Savita Purandhi Devaah – for brilliance, justice, enlightenment, nurture, nobleness
Garhapatyaya Tva Mahyam Aduh – I seek you with me in Grihastha
In other words, I promise to respect and regard you for your potentials. And with that commitment, I accept you as my one single wife for entire life. You are foundation of brilliance, justice, enlightenment, etc etc.
The next mantras of the sukta then glorify the noble woman.
I understand that those who consider women to have forgetful memory and half-intelligent as per their so-called religious injunctions may find this demeaning. But for Vedic dharmis, these very verses form the foundation of our monogamy, rejection of sex-slavery, encouragement of women education, providing opportunities for women in all fields and the highest respect we accord to them in general.
The very word – Suryaah (as brilliant as the rising sun or Usha) speaks for itself on Woman in Vedas.
As far as the source of the translation provided by Faizan is considered, we dont care about that. We have provided word by word translation. The whole concept of Vedic Dharma is based on accepting truth and not just any letter as final proof regardless of its implication. Probably the translator of this mantra in the attached bmp thought that the reader would be intelligent enough to gauge this context from previous and next mantras in the sukta and interpret accordingly. But he failed to realize that in future there would be lots of readers who have come from a cult that demands blind acceptance without using brains or face hell. For them perhaps a little more hand-holding is required. We hope this explanation of ours would serve that purpose. With that we welcome you to your original and natural Vedic dharma.
Admin
@ Satyagni,
Muhammad Nabi warned women not to be misled by men or not to mislead in this world so they will get filled by Hellfire. He ordered them to lead a pious life and take responsibility to avoid social degradation. Nothing if they have been warned with such seriousness considering social damages due to woman. Pl note why Mahabaratha war & Ramayana war centered around woman? why even many empires fallen due to woman, Pl get into the seriousness of the subject. Women freedom needs to be thought with consideration of woman dignity, social degrations centered around woman, conflicts centered around woman. AS PER ME ISLAM IS CORRECT. PEOPLE OF WISDOM WILL UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER THAN SIMPLE LOGICS LIKE 1+1=1 YOU POSE
@shaikh,
Muhammad nabi is the one who must go to hell first as he is responsible for the killing of banu quarez tribe and raping of rayhana.
What do you mean by social degradation? killing of kafirs, stoning of innocent women based on a foolish husbands complaint? banning of music and dance? allowing women as sexual object and accepting right hand posessions? My dear shaikh you have a distorted view of social degradation.
Let the women of world castrate all male animals so that so called social degradation will not happen!!
>>AS PER ME ISLAM IS CORRECT. PEOPLE OF WISDOM WILL UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER THAN SIMPLE LOGICS LIKE 1+1=1 YOU POSE
The distorted logic of islam can only be understood by a conditioned islamic mind, otherwise no wise man will accept a law which prohibts equal treatment of species(polygamy)
@adolf
Rayhana: Was a captive from the Banu Qurayza. She was later freed and married by Prophet Muhammad. [4]
So Prophet Muhammad freed and married his women slaves, they immediately became his wives. Prophet Muhamamd died a poor man and died without any men or women slaves. This can be proven by the following hadith:
Narrated ‘Amir bin Al-Harith: Allah’s Apostle (Prophet Muhammad) did not leave a Dinar or a Dirham (Arab form of currency or money) or a male or a female slave. He left only his white mule on which he used to ride, and his weapons, and a piece of land which he gave in charity for the needy travelers. (Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 738)
Narrated Amr bin Al-Harith: (The brother of the wife of Allah’s Apostle. Juwaira bint Al-Harith) When Allah’s Apostle (Prophet Muhammad) died, he did not leave any Dirham or Dinar (i.e. money), a slave or a slave woman or anything else except his white mule, his arms and a piece of land which he had given in charity .(Bukhari Volume 4, Book 51, Number 2)
So Prophet Muhammad didn’t have any female slaves or slave women when he died. Prophet Muhammad only had WIVES [5] not Woman slaves or captives as the above hadith demonstrate. He lived a simple and modest life and died as a poor man without any slaves
@adolf , Dear my brother or sister in my motherland and Humanity,
PUNISHMENT FOR JEWS OF BANU QURAYZA WAS AS PER THEIR TORAH’S LAW JUDGED BY THEIR FOEMER JEWS LAW EXPERT Sa’d b. Mu’adh AS A PUNISHMENT FOR THEIR WAR CRIMES
-The Muslims were in a treaty with the Banu Qurayza
-The Pagans launched an offensive against the Muslims
-The Banu Qurayza broke the treaty and joined the pagan offensive
-The Banu Qurayza were simply waiting for the pagans to launch their complete offensive against the Muslims so they too could launch their offensive against the Muslims from the south
-The Banu Qurayza had every intention of killing the prophet Muhammad and the entire Muslim community
So with all of that said, the Banu Quryaza are far from innocent
Let us now continue with the incident, the battle has now ended, but Banu Qurayza’s punishment is yet to come, we continue to read:
The prophet ordered it to be announced that none should perform the afternoon prayer until after he reached B. Qurayza. The apostle sent Ali forward with his banner and the men hastened to it. Ali advanced until he came near the forts he heard insulting language used of the apostle. (Ibid., pp.461)
So notice even after their treacherous act, the Jewish tribe are still asking for a fight, Ali went to their fort and they started insulting the prophet Muhammad, they do this instead of asking for forgiveness and apologising for their crime.
Now so far we have seen that the Quryaza tribe broke the treaty, and on top of that they aren’t repentant and persist in their crimes, so therefore it is without a doubt that they do deserve a punishment, now this is one of the main arguments that is thrown on this case, which is that the Qurazya tribe were killed in a brutal fashion, well let us read about how this punishment came about:
In the Morning they submitted to the apostles judgement and al-Aus leapt up and said, O apostle, they are our allies, not allies of Khazraj, and you know how you recently treated the allies of our brethren. Now the apostle had besieged B. Qaynuqa who were allies of al-Khazraj and when they submitted to his judgement Abdullah B. Ubayy b. Salul had asked him for them and he gave them to him; so when al-Aus spoke thus the apostle said: Will you be satisfied, o Aus, if one of your own number pronounces judgement on them? When they agreed he said that Sa’d b. Mu’adh was the man…Sa’d said, Then I give judgement that the men should be killed, the property divide, and the women and children taken as captives. (Ibid,. pp. 464)
So the prophet allowed Sa’d to judge over the Banu Qurayza tribe, and the prophet did this at a request of the Aus tribe who were allies with the Qurayza tribe, furthermore Sa’d himself was a former Jew. Now Christians claim that this ruling is so wrong and barbaric, but here is the icing on the cake, Sa’d a former Jew judged these Jews by THEIR OWN LAW! Here is the law from the Jewish Bible:
When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
So notice the double standards and hypocrisy of these Christians, they are attacking the prophet Muhammad for what happened to the Jews of Banu Qurayza, yet when this is in their own Bible they have no problem with it! The Jewish tribe of Qurayza were judged by their own book, their own law, and if Christians feel this is something detestable then they should go burn their Bible and rip this ruling out of their book
@Rayhana
>> Was a captive from the Banu Qurayza. She was later freed and married by Prophet Muhammad.
Why to capture and later free? This is similar to raping and marrying the victim inorder to avoid jail, a great way of doing justice.
>>So Prophet Muhammad freed and married his women slaves
With gods power in hand he should have abolished it altogether. A person who can split the moon didnt care to abolish right hand posessions
Faizan Bhai
———they are considered as breakfast plate, objects of lust, personal property, sex machine, deficient in intellect and much more———-
You failed to give any Mantra which qualifies for the above mentioned conditions. But as Satyagni stated, these are perhaps found in Islamic literature abundantly
1. Woman as breakfast plate, not in metaphoric sense but LITERALLY:
# “Suckling, however little or much when it is in the first two years, makes haram. As for what is after the first two years, little or much, it does not make anything haram. IT IS LIKE FOOD. [Malik’s Muwatta 30.1.11]
# “Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that a man said to Abu Musa al−Ashari, “I DRANK SOME MILK FROM MY WIFE’S BREASTS AND IT WENT INTO MY STOMACH.” Abu Musa said, “I can only but think that she is haram for you.” Abdullah ibn Masud said, “Look at what opinion you are giving the man.” Abu Musa said, “Then what do you say?” Abdullah ibn Masud said, “THERE IS ONLY KINSHIP BY SUCKLING IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS” Abu Musa said, “Do not ask me about anything while this learned man is among you.”” [Malik’s Muwatta Book 30, Number 30.2.14]
So anything left for breakfast plate?
2. Women as objects of lust and sex machine:
Once, Muhammad saw a woman, and so he came to his wife, Zainab, as she was tanning leather and had sexual intercourse with her. He then went to his Companions and told them: The woman advances and retires in the shape of a devil, so when one of you sees a woman, he should come to his wife, for that will repel what he feels in his heart. [Muslim, Book #008, Hadith #3240]
The Prophet said: “The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women’s) private parts. [Bukhari (7.62:81)]
“Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.” [Qur’an (2:223)]
3. Woman as personal property:
All the verses of Quran and Hadith dealing with sex slaves (right hand possessions) clearly show the status of women not more than property which could be gifted to others or kept for self.
4. Women- deficient in intellect and religion:
# “…..And mind you, when a woman has her periods she is not allowed to pray or to fast. This is the measure of your DEFICIENCY IN RELIGION.” [Bukhari vol 1, hadith 301]
# “Muhammad said: woman is like a rib. When you attempt to straighten it, you would break it. And if you leave her alone you would benefit by her, and crookedness will remain in her.” (Muslim, Book #008, Hadith #3466)
# “A woman may be married for four reasons: for her property, her status, her beauty and her religion. (Muslim, Book #008, Hadith #3457)”
# “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favours done for them by their husbands.’”(Bukhari:V1B2N28)
# “…‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. YOU LACK COMMON SENSE, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’ (Muslim:B1N142)
# “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is BECAUSE OF THE DEFICIENCY OF A WOMAN’S MIND’ ” (Bukhari:V3B48N826)
What do you have to say about this status of women in Islam?
@ Vajra,
Whatever you have mentioned are any basics of a woman ? do you want to write a law as a woman should not be used for breast feeding as a mother to a child, sexual partner as a wife to a husband, best cook for a family, heritage of home. These are all accepted norms of world or any culture. nothing specific to Islam.
You see all the advertisements where a mother is displayed as a cook or feeding child,
all indian cinemas & cinema songs you run around longing for sexual desire with women ! (Hi, funny why do you criticise this with Islam)
WHAT IS SO GREAT YOU HAVE FOUND OUT? IT SEEMS YOU ARE FUNDEMENTALLY WRONG.
@Shaikh
———–do you want to write a law as a woman should not be used for breast feeding as a mother to a child, sexual partner as a wife to a husband———–
1. It is suckling by husband and not baby that your scripture talked about i referred
2. Sexual relations b/w husband and wife are accepted norms but inclusion of stories of fondling and love making of prophet with his child wife Aisha in a RELIGIOUS BOOK is something that surprises sane people. And on top of it, it is only the accepted norm in Islam that whoever does not believe such vulgar stories as divine, will be burnt in hell forever 🙁
———–all indian cinemas & cinema songs you run around longing for sexual desire with women ! (Hi, funny why do you criticise this with Islam)———
All cinema songs running around are not to be believed as final word of Allah or a prophet. Cinemas never claimed themselves to be the passport offices to heaven unlike Islam, did they. Funny?
————WHAT IS SO GREAT YOU HAVE FOUND OUT?————-
Nothing after reading Quran and Hadith 🙁
———–IT SEEMS YOU ARE FUNDEMENTALLY WRONG.————
I may be fundamentally wrong at philosophy but Islam is fundamentally wrong at actions that you should be concerned more about.
@ Vajra , Dear my brother or sister in my motherland and Humanity,
Before you make allegation or getting into confusion or misconceptions Pl read completely what quran or Muhammad Nabi Message conveys on any subject. Similar doubts I can raise on Hindu God’s having love affairs with female God’s, heavenly girls, human girl, making their generations a family of Gods ,also their generation of sacred people in the earth, all the greeted love affairs, Lord Rama suspecting his chaste wife by a cruel way, great war and great destructions of brothers and relatives due to a woman in Mahabhratha, Lord krishma’s greeted loves with Gopi’s , Great sages like Viswamitra falling in the feet of a girls , many stories of sages who can not control their sexual desires, even God could not control their desires…(Pl note this why I left Hindusim)..If there is no basis in Hindusim for Kamasutra, Rajnish principles , if not supported by Hindu brothers why all the cultural degrations displayed in cinemas..You will again say me to read in right sprit..
PL NOTE AS PER ISLAM POLYGAMY (A MAN LIVING WITH MORE WIVES – LIMIT OF FOUR) LEGALLY ALLOWED. ALSO MARRYING SLAVES IS ALSO LEGALLY ALLOWED ( we do not have slaves today..it was an accepted norms in olden culture..) SLAVES WERE INDULGED IN PROSTITUTION IN OLDEN SOCEITY, BUT ISLAM GRANTED MARRIAGE AND LEGAL WIFE STATUS TO SLAVES. Islam did everything to eliminate slaves from the soceity, uplifted human dignity.
As per arab culture if some one get breast fed by some women then he will become his son. There are laws and other rules are defined for breast feeding in this scope. You study fully Hadith or quranic law on breast feeding. If you & me by chance breast feed by one woman, she will become our mother due to feeding and we will become brothers and sister.
Aisha was the young and virgin wife of prophet, not the child wife. But she was married in childhood at the age of 6 due to family understanding. Such Balya Vivaga was common in Indian culture also. When our father of Nation, Gandhiji , Married his wife? This was an accepted custom before Islam abrogates any such customs. Polygamy was an accepted custom, people were marrying hundreds of wives before Allah given law and limited it to four with justice to all woman and strongly recommended only one.
A muslim can live with woman still he is a muslim . But polygamy was the extra legal option to avoid adultery in the soceity as a human faces so many situations in his life. What hindu law says? Is it accepting adultery , Redlight brothel systems, devadhasi system, a system in which a cinema actress will dance naked or half naked before many…Is it accepted in Hindu system ? what is the stand of Hindu law? Pl make it clear..
Islam encourages a man to live a lovely life with his legally married wives or wife. You feel like Hindu system prophet or sage means he should control his desire. This is not the case of Islam controlling desires and longing inside secretly. Why do you find fault when Prophet Muhammad (sal) lived lovely life with his legal wives.
ALL YOU CRITICISE CAN ONLY SAY MUHAMMAD NABI LIVED WITH HIS LIFE. WHAT WE SEE THAT MUHAMMAD NABI’S PERSONAL LIFE ALSO EXAMPLE FOR US TO UNDERSTAND PERMITTED SEXUAL RULES, EVEN WHICH IS NOT HIDDEN TO THE SOCEITY TILL TODAY, MUHAMMAD NABI’S LIFE IS THE OPEN BOOK (TRUE TEST FOR SATHYA), HIS PERSONAL LIFE IS HIGHLY IMPORTANT TO DERIVE LEGAL RULES RELATED TO PERSONAL LIFE FOR ANY ONE OF US. Why don’t you appreciate Muhammad (sal) for his life lived with only one woman , a widower Khadija, from age 25 to 50..Why you do not appreciate he married widowers and shown to the world…You will be keep getting all such confusions in your mind because you think marriage is limited to one woman, similar age, similar status, similar family and caste..all such restriction only complicate any one’s life before a love.
all you do is post crap, crap crap! Do yourself a favour, go through the articles on women in vedas of this website.
————Aisha was the young and virgin wife of prophet, not the child wife. But she was married in childhood at the age of 6 due to “family understanding”.———
All your lies are caught here, http://alisina.org/ali-sina-vs-mustafa-hoseini-tabatabaie/
@T sheikh
you are female? Doesnt matter to me you are “ghanimat ka maal”
@ Vajra,
BIGGEST CHALLENGE FOR US TO ANSWER YOU WHEN YOU SEE A CAT AND SAY AS RAT, U WILL SEE A RAT AND WILL DISCUSS WITH US AS IT IS CAT…
——I neither have problem with mother Khadija nor with Aisha. I have problem with Muhammad who chose a 6 year old kid for the marriage————
Proposing marriage during childhood was common practice / accepted custom in those days even india. Do you know when Gandhiji , father of India married her wife and many intellectuals of india, Pl study on Balya Vivag history. Md Nabi married Aisha when she was child 6 but started marriage life after when reached maturity. As per medical rule a girl can go for marriage after maturity. Pl prove this is medically wrong..She was already intelligent she accepted marriage with prophet..for a marriage physical and mental maturity to live with a husband is more than enough medically. I do not know what is your rules says.
——Surprised to hear a half intelligent creature (women as per Islam are deficient in religion and lack common sense, its not my belief) taught creatures of more intelligence——-
Islam never says women are half intelligent. It is only a law in a case of evidence two woman will be needed in case of one man needed. one woman supposed to support another woman. This is nothing to do with intellignce..
—-So Quran teaches you to associate partner (Muhammad) with Allah as well as idol worship. So the only way out of this Shirk is to believe in Vedas—–
WE WILL BE HAPPY IF YOU TAKE THIS TO HINDUS..REMOVE THEM FROM IDOL WORSHIP.
@T sheikh.
You did not answer my question. my hindu community got WIPED OUT from pakistan, (28% of population) bangladesh (33% of population) and kashmir (10% of population). Now what do you have to say about it? You are not apologetic about it? This what your islam teaches? If you muslims got a right to wipe out hindus and desecrate temples where you are in majority, honestly tell me, why shoudnt we have the SAME right in rest of India where we hindus are majority. If you say we dont have right, that means you are hypocrite, you got double standrds, you are munafiq.
Punjab was one big state in british India, lahore was the capital. Lahore and west punjab went to pakistan, east punjab cam to Inia. What happened to hindu-sikh minority in west punjab we did to muslims in east punjab. The present day states of punjab haryana and himachal pradesh, go and have a look, muslims are only 0.5% of the population. 3000 mosques are lying vacant. The small mosques are used as cowsheds for cattle. What we can do in east punjab we can damn well do in rest of India. If kashmir becomes pakistan, whole of India becomes east punjab. Next time, dont tell me we hindus cannot do it. Like you rightly said, mahabharta teaches us violence , the bhagwadgeeta teaches us “yuddha kar” In 1947 there was Mahatma gandhi who took 3 bullets to save muslims, he was killed by godse becuase he was saving muslims, otherwise we would have wiped you out in 1947 itself. As long as muslim majority kashmir is in India, India is secular, so, first go and save hindus in kashmir, teach some secularism to your muslim brothers in kashmir, or there will be a holocaust in india against muslim minority. Dont challenge me, what we can do in mumbai and gujarat, and east punjab we can do in rest of India. Jinnahs’ theory of tit for tat.
We hindus have too many cults, etc, we worship idols, etc , not your problem. If you wipe us out for that, we can return favour.
Like deepak said, rightly , that you actually want to wipe us out of existence , tell me why shouldnt we hindus get violent, you are spreading hate against muslims
Hindu militant was banned on this site because he abused you and talked of rape and violence.
But I honestly believe, these two are the only answer to arrogants like you.
@ T Sheikh
My ancestors come from Lahore. There is a chowk in lahore named after me. Why cant I go to lahore?
We hindu -sikhs were 28% of the population, WIPED OUT.
Your quote,”Now u dont have to think of keeping me in India. coz u have no right whatsoever to decide as to who wud stay in India. Indian Muslims are not tenants in India. They are the landlords. ” Unquote
Plzzzz I decide as a hindu whether of not muslims stay in India, I got every right to decide. YOu are landlods? Really? Try me. We hindus are majority, WE decide, not you. You dont have any sympathy for my community wiped out from pakis6tan, why do you expect me not to retaliate against you?
Hinduism is not a religion, and your false cult is? Really? The constitution of India grants me full rights to worship idols, you gonna stop me?
Anser me.
@Rajput Warrior,
This forum is talk on truth of a religion, not politics. There may be politics in your family also. If you are true saying wiped from your motherland Pakistan , you have every right to defend or fight with Pakistan, why do you fight with Indian Muslims, srilankan muslim or Indoneisan muslims or US muslims. If you produce if you are correct then we will support you. We will fight with Pakistan for you.
WHO ARE YOU TO SEND US FROM OUR MOTHER LAND? WE MAY BE MUSLIM BUT WE ARE PART OF THIS LAND..PL UNDERSTAND..
First of all I want Hindu Militant to reply. Y r u hiding dude. Are u afraid or u dont have answers to my questions???????
@ Vajra
For ur kind information, India has prospered the most under the Muslim rule i.e Mughals. They never exploited India and in their reign v had been prospering.
Hindus are quite happy in Pakistan. But I feel people like u want muslims to flee from India. But it was our ancestors who wanted to die along with their Hindu brothers here in India and hence they stayed here. But instead of praising them u people create confusions and riots.
Godhra was done by Hindus and to be frank and straight forward, the State itself sponsored the riots. And it was the Muslims who were burnt alive in Gujarat riots. And a pregnant muslim lady was assaulted with a trishool. Not only this the condition of innocent muslims in the jail is miserable. If a muslim progresses u people cant see it and throw them in jails. this is injustice which we are facing specially a case in jammu & kashmir.
Muslims never worship Kaba or Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). And I have said this before. So get ur facts staight. If u dont understand Islam it is ur problem, not ours…..
@Shaikh:
First of all I want Hindu Militant to reply. Y r u hiding dude. Are u afraid or u dont have answers to my questions???????
HM was banned because he used some type of violent language. If you want to know the exact words he used, you can search the different topics. Else, if you want only an approximate idea of what he did, you could read the Quran.
Umm…Godhra happened because Babur destroyed the Ram Temple in Ayodhya. Forgot that? Muslims also destroyed temples at Somnath, Mathura and Kashi.
Destroyed temples can be rebuilt. But sacking of the ancient university in Nalanda by invading hordes of Arabs is unpardonable. The burning of the library there alone is enough reason for Muslims today to hang their head in shame.
@Shaikh:
First of all I want Hindu Militant to reply. Y r u hiding dude. Are u afraid or u dont have answers to my questions???????
HM was banned because he used some type of violent language. If you want to know the exact words he used, you can search the different topics. Else, if you want only an approximate idea of what he wrote, you could read the Quran.
Umm…Godhra happened because Babur destroyed the Ram Temple in Ayodhya. Forgot that? Muslims also destroyed temples at Somnath, Mathura and Kashi.
Destroyed temples can be rebuilt. But sacking of the ancient university in Nalanda by invading hordes of Arabs is unpardonable. The burning of the library there alone is enough reason for Muslims today to hang their head in shame.
@Tshaikh aka Proud Indian Muslim
you’re proud of those mughals because in their reign v had been prospering? i tell you what you’re proud of…
1) You’re proud of them because they tortured, raped, sold and killed your ancestors.
2) You’re proud of them because they done biggest holocaust(by killing almost 100 million hindus) in the whole world history.
come out of madarsa fantasies, go and try to revisit the Indian history instead of watching bollywood movies.
You’re not even qualify to be a human beacuse only a human can understand and feel their pain. Shame on you, disgraceful creature. Get lost.
@Tshaikh aka Proud Indian Muslim
you’re proud of those mughals because in their reign v had been prospering? i tell you what you’re proud of…
1) You’re proud of them because they tortured, raped, sold and killed your ancestors.
2) You’re proud of them because they done biggest holocaust(by killing almost 100 million hindus) in the whole world history.
come out of madarsa fantasies, go and try to revisit the Indian history instead of watching bollywood movies.
You’re not even qualify to be a human beacuse only a human can understand and feel their pain. Shame on you, disgraceful creature. Get lost.
@T sheikh
Godhra was done by hindus? hindus killing hindus that too in gujarat? You got half a brain? First APOLOGISE for godhra, beg forgiveness, tauba karo, maafi mango, pair choo lo, then maybe I will be apologetic about the retaliation in rest of gujarat.
If a pregnant muslim lady was assaulted in gujarat , the same happened to hindu ladies in kashmir. YOu dont have any sympathy for hindus in kashmir? 3.5 LAKH hindus were wiped out from kashmir 10% of the population, then why are you screaming about injustice in kashmir? Go and save kashmir, settle the hindus in kashmir, or we can repeat gujarat in whole of India.
Kashmir ka jawaab gujarat.
@ Vajra
And if u really talk about converting, then let me tell u there are more people reverting to Islam than converting to Hinduism. So i can too consider all of them wiser than ur frnd!! And i use the word reverting to Islam coz every child is born as a muslim As our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said.But due to Family or regional influence starts following a different religion. So who is running after them with a sword. Tell me???
Again i say stooppp speaking RUBBISH!!!!
@Shaikh:
coz every child is born as a muslim As our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said
This is just stupid. Your prophet lied. No newborn baby has a clue about Mohammad rasool allah leave alone La Ilaha Il Allah. Grow up already.
Waiting for your response to my query here.
@ kalbhairav
Yes, every child is born as a muslim. Coz he is sinless and pure at that time. Not that a muslim does not sin. A muslim can sin just like any other person from any other religion. But at that time he is free of any indecent act. And our beloved Prophet also said that a person who reverts to Islam is as though is born all over again. And his status at that time is higher than the people who are already Muslims. So v speak the truth and not give money to others for converting to their religion.
And I am not a Shia or a Sunni. I m only a muslim. Shia and Sunni is a creation of people and not of Islam. U shud see what Islam teaches u.
@ Vajra
So what if ur frnd diverted to a wrong path? I hav already said dat there are many cuming towards the True path.
You talk as though a Hindu has never raped or indulged in a criminal activity. May i know why??
Yes, people like u can not agree with Gandhjii coz u belong to the group of those who killed Him.And people like u were responsible for the division India. And u create most problems in India. Indian gvt shud worry about people like u, naxalites, BJP, VHP, Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang Dal, etc more than Pakistan becoz u r d ones who are India’s internal enemies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a verse in the Quran which says that muslims are the best creatures bcoz they forbid wrong & invite people to d Truth. It does not say Non muslims are the worst of creatures. And for ur info Quran also says that out of all the creations of God, Human beings are the best creation. So y are u denying this verse? Are u not a human being?
I too leave it to the readers to decide what that verse means. u caught my word “rely” just like u caught dis verse. And u ignored d whole of Quran Its ur problem if u cant understand Islam, not ours.
@ Vajra
Circumcision is not d criterion of being a Muslim. It is recommended in Islam. And its benefits are scientifically proven.
Its the duty of every person to find out the Truth in life. So Allah did not destine them to Hell. It is their ownself. Jus like u. U are struggling sooooooooooooooo hard to malign Islam. u hav cum across the Truth but u dont wanna accept it. So u urself wud be responsible for ur destiny in d hereafter.
I can only pray 4 u…………..
Circumcision is not d criterion of being a Muslim
tell this to the sunnis
It is recommended in Islam. And its benefits are scientifically proven.
Only semi-literate and illiterate people belive in this myth . Take this quick scientific quiz http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/circumcision_quiz.htm to know the truth
Its the duty of every person to find out the Truth in life
all your so called truth comes from a book written in 7th century desert arabia dictated by an illiterate an..is that how you suggest everyone should “find” truth?
Truth is not written on camel bones and nor is it spread by the sword.Slaves can only create slaves and slave mindsets.
those who insist that you must become a slave , can never give you freedom..including Allah of Quran
@T sheikh
Where are you hiding? Why no reply to my above posts?
I know islam is true religion, and hinduism is false religion, but plzzzz answer to my above question, on what you say about hindu minority in pakistan, bangladesh and kashmir. And what should I do to muslim minority in rest of India?
Plzzz dont avoid the topic.
T Shaikh
——–So what if ur frnd diverted to a wrong path?———-
That any act/belief (of conversion to Islam by anyone for instance) of some people can never be the criterion of truth for the other because people can get diverted to the wrong path as you accepted 😉 But few comments back, you presented the act of a lady as a proof of truthfulness !
———You talk as though a Hindu has never raped or indulged in a criminal activity. May i know why??———
Hindus never glorify the rapists by hailing them as prophet or Ghazi. Neither they force others to believe in those rapists as Ghazi or prophet unlike Muslims. This act of foolishness is only done by Muslim friends who praise the rapists of their own ancestors.
———–Yes, people like u can not agree with Gandhjii coz u belong to the group of those who killed Him. And people like u were responsible for the division India. And u create most problems in India. Indian gvt shud worry about people like u, naxalites, BJP, VHP, Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang Dal, etc more than Pakistan becoz u r d ones who are India’s internal enemies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!———-
You belong to those who killed millions of people in the barbaric onslaught and killed your own ancestors and forced them to convert. If I were to choose between the above mentioned groups and the group of the killers of my own ancestors, I will choose the former every time I am asked to choose. But unfortunately you enjoy the company of the killers of your own mothers and fathers 🙁
———– It does not say Non muslims are the worst of creatures.———-
Quran [98:6]- Those who reject [Truth], among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein [for aye]. THEY ARE WORST OF CREATURES.
Now?
———–So y are u denying this verse? Are u not a human being?———-
In Quranic terminology, obviously not
———-Its the duty of every person to find out the Truth in life. So Allah did not destine them to Hell.———–
What will happen to those who could not get the chance to read quran, who are mentally challenged, who couldn’t get convinced by reading it, who denied to accept sex slavery, polygamy, beating wife, fighting non believers, killing them, etc as the part of God’s revelation?
———-I can only pray 4 u…………..———-
Thanks for praying for me, I hope you pray for those unfortunate ancestors of yours also who had no option but to loose their lives, faith, dignity and everything because of the Islamic sword.
@T Shaikh:
So, now, the definition of Muslim is someone who is sinless and pure? OK. Can one be sinless and pure without believe in La Ilaha Il Allah Mohammed Rasool Allah. Begin your mental gymnastics now.
Also, what is sinless and pure about sacking of Nalanda and burning of its libraries carried out by Mughals? Were they Muslims?
T. Shaikh loves for pakistan is coming out he says Hindus and Hindu organization are internal enemies of India. Hindus are bigger enemy of india than pakistan LOL.
@T.Shaikh Islam is growing LOL really for your kind information the most famous muslim channel AL-JAZEERA has itself exposed that 6 million muslims are converting to Islam in Africa alone and millions in France and other european country.
See the reality of your Islam’s in this link quoted from major news papers of the world with video.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98893
Sorry correction AL-JAZEERA has itself exposed that 6 million muslims are converting to christanity in africa alone and millions in France and other countries
@ identity crises
Hindu population in Pakistan is not increasing as there are hardly people accepting Hinduism in Pakistan. And muslim population is increasing in India cz Many Hindus are accepting Islam here.
@ Vajra
U urself hav hinted that ur story was a fake. U lie but i dont. Mine was a true one and to be exact, it was my frnd’s mother who askd 4 d Quran.
If Prophet Muhammed was a rappist (nausbillah), then his wife Khadija(r.a) wud not hav offered him her own hand in marriage, nor wud Aisha’s(r.a) father hav offered Him his daughter’s hand in marriage at a young age. I urge you to read the life of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), as I dont want u to make a fun of urself.
@ Indian Agnostic
Lolzzzzz u wanna prove that u are the biggest illiterate. If u see the benefits of Circumcision on Google, ur article will stand a witness against its ownself.
Quran was not written in d 7th century. It was revealed to a Prophet who inspite of being an illiterate is the Most Knowledged Person ever on Earth coz his knowledge came 4rm a Divine source.
Now v know when d Quran was revealed, on which prophet it was revealed, v knw d exact no. of verses of Quran, V knw d exact no. of chapters in d Quran, not only this, v knw when n where every verse was revealed.
But u dont knw when d Vedas were revealed, on whom were they revealed, d exact no. of verses and chapters in Vedas.
@ Indian Agnostic
And Prophet Muhammed was made an illiterate so that when the facts in d Quran match with today’s established science, people like wud not get a chance to open ur bloody mouth saying the Prophet wud have copied it 4rm here or 4rm there.
The foll is just a glimpse of the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
1)Statement of the universal brotherhood in the last Sermon:
O people, Remember that your Lord is One. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a black has no superiority over white, nor a white has any superiority over black, except by piety and good action (Taqwa). Indeed the best among you is the one with the best character (Taqwa). Listen to me. Did I convey this to you properly? People responded, Yes. O messenger of God, The Prophet then said, then each one of you who is there must convey this to everyone not present. (Excerpt from the Prophet’s Last Sermon as in Baihiqi)
2) Don’t take pride in ancestry:
The Prophet said: Let people stop boasting about their ancestors. One is only a pious believer or a miserable sinner. All men are sons of Adam, and Adam came from dust (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi).
3) Looking down upon other people will stop you from entering the Jannah:
The Prophet said: Whoever has pride in his heart equal to the weight of an atom shall not enter Paradise. A man inquired about a person who likes to wear beautiful clothes and fine shoes, and he answered: God is beautiful and likes beauty. Then he explained pride means rejecting the truth because of self-esteem and looking down on other people (Muslim).
@T Shaik can I a converted muslim become a caliph? Can i marry an arab girl and have 2 more pakis as keep and one iraqi as slave? Can i have sex with a boy? I heard many of our arab friends are gays.
If arabs are not different from pakistanis why are sub continent muslims not accpeted into the royal lineage of saudis?
@ Adolf
Which country do u belong ??
When did u accept Islam??
T Shaikh
————-Hindu population in Pakistan is not increasing as there are hardly people accepting Hinduism in Pakistan. ———–
And why can not people of Pakistan accept Hinduism because they will be killed as per Shariyat. Look what your beloved Zakir Naik, whose religion has no compulsion, says about Murtid (apostates)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0
————-If Prophet Muhammed was a rappist (nausbillah), then his wife Khadija(r.a) wud not hav offered him her own hand in marriage, nor wud Aisha’s(r.a) father hav offered Him his daughter’s hand in marriage at a young age. I urge you to read the life of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), as I dont want u to make a fun of urself.————–
1. He became rapist after mother Khadija died. In fact he was so disciplined during the lifetime of mother Khadija that he even did not think of marrying with any other woman. In my opinion, Mother Khadija was more capable of being prophet than Muhammad.
2. It was not Aisha’s father who offered his daughter to Muhammad but it was Muhammad who wanted Aisha at the age of 6, what a third class man he was 🙁
————-If u see the benefits of Circumcision on Google, ur article will stand a witness against its ownself.————
Circumcision is definitely helpful for those who are habitual of taking bath Friday to Friday 🙂 However for those taking bath daily and keeping their organs clean, its not even worth thinking
Dont you think sometime you should come back to the religion of your ancestors, your original home?
@ Vajra
So again u wanna show ur arrogance or i shud say ur ignorance. It was not Muhammed who wanted Aisha, it was Aisha’s(r.a) father who offered Him her hand. I dont understand from where u get such info. Must be some stupid anti-islamic site, Just like Satyagni.
Its good to see that u r reading Quran even b4 readin ur Vedas. So u r cuming closer to Islam.And u agree dat u r not a human being. And ur comments show that u have many misconceptions about Islam. U require a special trainee 4 urself. If i had enough time, i wud answer u much more in detail.
V all pray 4 our ancestor’s, though there is no need to pray 4 them as they hav already attained high Ranks in d Hereafter. But i worry about u, indian agnostic, deepak, identity crisis and some others in this forum…
And I didnt understand ur last statement. Come back to ur original home??????????????????
@T Shaikh
I am not a muslim. I am asking those question to indicate that there is no chance for convert to beomce a caliph or to marry the particular tribe which holds power in islamic world.
Even if aisha was offered by her father , pbuh must have rejected saying that he has already crossed the allowed number by allah. So much for the greatest man that allah has to make exceptions for him.
When you compare jesus who forgave his killers and rasool who killed surrendered tribe, we can know how good is the greatest man on earth.
T Shaikh
————– It was not Muhammed who wanted Aisha, it was Aisha’s(r.a) father who offered Him her hand.———
Sahih Bukhari vol 7 book 62 hadith 18
“”””””””Narrated ‘Ursa: THE PROPHET ASKED ABU BAKR FOR AISHA’S HAND IN MARRIAGE. Abu Bakr said “BUT I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.”””””””””””
so you see its not just Muhammad asked Abu Bakr for Aisha and not vice versa, but also that Abu Bakr got shocked when he heard the proposal from Muhammad and he reminded him that he is his brother 🙁
———— I dont understand from where u get such info. Must be some stupid anti-islamic site, Just like Satyagni.———-
From Quran and Sahih Hadith like Satyagni 😉
Now accept first your ignorance or Taqiyya about Muhammad’s life
———-Its good to see that u r reading Quran even b4 readin ur Vedas. So u r cuming closer to Islam.———-
And its proven that you read Satyagni more than your prophet’s deeds 🙂 and thus you are coming closer to Satyagni!
———-And u agree dat u r not a human being.———–
Go back to your above comment in which you claimed that nowhere Quran says that non believers are worst of creatures. Now I gave you the verse. Accept your defeat.
———-And ur comments show that u have many misconceptions about Islam. U require a special trainee 4 urself. If i had enough time, i wud answer u much more in detail.———–
There seems to be some problem in the training program itself which makes trainers run away from giving training or rather they themselves become trainees of their trainees 😉
———–V all pray 4 our ancestor’s, though there is no need to pray 4 them as they hav already attained high Ranks in d Hereafter.————
I talked about your own ancestors who were Hindus (probably) and not Arabs, who were killed, raped and forced to convert to Islam during the rule of tyrant Jihadi arab and Mughal invaders.
———-And I didnt understand ur last statement. Come back to ur original home??????????????????——–
Vedic Dharma which your Hindu ancestors used to follow.
@T sheikh
YOu are COWARD. YOu did not answer my question.
The hindu minority was wiped out from pakistan in 1947 who are living in refugee camps in India, eg:- Ulhasnagar outside mumbai.
The hindu community got wiped out of kashmir in secular India. What are you doing to save them? Now please dont tell me they are not following true islam, they are following TRUE islam, they are fanatics in kashmir. They desecrated my temples in kashmir, I seen myself.
Now what should I do to you muslim minority in rest of India? And pray why shouldnt I desecrate all your mosques?
Plaease anser my question, and dont bother about me going to hellfire. JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION.
Namaste T Shaikh
1)Statement of the universal brotherhood in the last Sermon:
a) The last sermon is nothing but an exact copy of St. Pauls message :
St. Paul Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
b) Brother Vajra is working on a detailed analysis of the racism that exists in Islam.as Adolf bro pointede out ..no non-arab ajami can marry an arab woman but an arab man can marry all non-arab muslims. So no matter whether the sermon is authentic or concocted, Islam in practice is racist
2) Don’t take pride in ancestry:
a) Muhammad himself took pride in ancestry.He boasted that the Quraish are the best of the arabs and amongs the arabs his house was the best.That’s why he was chosen as the prophet
b) look at this link, Muhammad attests that all non-qurash muslims can only be the governed and not the rulers in an Islamic nation. (
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 89, Number 329:
Narrated Jabir bin Samura:
I heard the Prophet saying, “There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world).” He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, “All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish.”
source: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/089.sbt.html#009.089.329
3) Looking down upon other people will stop you from entering the Jannah:
from the God of Quran to Muhammad to Muslims , they all look down upon nomuslims..they are called worst of creatures.If you are to be believed no muslim will enter jannah – neither Allah , nor Muhammad nor any muslim who looks down upon non-muslims
@ Indian Agnostic
See how people can fall pray to their own words. U said that Prophet Muhammed was illiterate. I gave u d ans y he was made an illiterate. And again u say dat his last sermon was a copy of sumbody.
lolllzzzzz u not only wanna prove that u r d biggest illiterate but u also wanna prove that u have a bloody mouth which says that inspite of the Prophet (pbuh) being an illiterate, he copied stuff.
WHAT A SHAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@T Shaikh
you seem to be as qualified as the prophet.
the prophet was illiterate , but he was not deaf LOLZZZZZZZ
The Jews and Christians used to preach the gospel and torah in arabic to people.This is mentioned in various hadits.
apart from using filthy epithets , the “deficient of intelligence” muslimah has nothing to offer.
PS: Think twice before you post..having your foot in the mouth all the time aint good for ya
Namaste T Shaikh
Lolzzzzz u wanna prove that u are the biggest illiterate. If u see the benefits of Circumcision on Google, ur article will stand a witness against its ownself.
1) I gave you the link of doctors against circumcision ..here it is again http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/circumcision_quiz.htm ..only a semi-literate or illiterate will call doctors illiterate.
Quran was not written in d 7th century. It was revealed to a Prophet who inspite of being an illiterate is the Most Knowledged Person ever on Earth coz his knowledge came 4rm a Divine source.
I have debunked this myth in detail on Satyagni itsef.read Satyagni-/3118/miracle-islam/
Now v know when d Quran was revealed, on which prophet it was revealed, v knw d exact no. of verses of Quran, V knw d exact no. of chapters in d Quran, not only this, v knw when n where every verse was revealed.
But u dont knw when d Vedas were revealed, on whom were they revealed, d exact no. of verses and chapters in Vedas.
The very fact that you know exactly which man created the quran and in what century proves that Quran is not the eternal unchanging word of God and by the same logic, since the Vedas cannot be traced back to anytime in history , it becomes more probable that they are the word of God (if god exists that is ) 🙂
Please Dont Call Any Of A person Like Dr Zakir Naik as Prophet he is not even Muslim How can U Call Him like that
Other Things we All ( Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Punjabis, ) and any other religion Belongs to One God and we are Brothers and sisters by Birth as we are From the First Man on Earth who was Adam
We Should respect all religion
Muslim Population
Sno. Country Total Population Percentage Muslim Population
1 Afghanistan 22,664,136 100% 22,664,136
2 Albania 3,249,136 75% 2,436,852
3 Algeria 29,183,032 99% 28,891,202
4 Angola 10,342,899 25% 2,585,725
5 Antigua and Barbuda 65,647 n/a
6 Argentina 34,672,997 2 693,460
7 Aruba 67,794 5 3,390
8 Australia 18,260,863 2.09 382,000
9 Azerbaijan 7,676,953 93.4 7,170,274
10 Bahrain 590,042 100 590,042
11 Benin 5,709,529 15 856,429
12 Bangladesh 123,062,800 85 104,603,380
13 Bhutan 1,822,625 5 91,131
14 Bosnia and Herzegovina 2,656,240 40 1,062,496
15 Botswana 1,477,630 5 73,882
16 Brazil 162,661,214 0.6 1,000,000
17 Brunei 299,939 63 188,962
18 Bulgaria 8,612,757 14 1,205,786
19 Burkina Faso 10,623,323 50 5,311,662
20 Burma 45,975,625 10 4,597,563
21 Burundi 5,943,057 20 1,188,611
22 Cambodia 10,861,218 1 108,612
23 Cameroon 14,261,557 55 7,843,856
24 Canada 28,820,671 1.48 400,000
25 Central African Republic 3,274,426 55 1,800,934
26 Chad 6,976,845 85 5,930,318
27 China 1,210,004,956 11 133,100,545
28 Christmas Island 813 10 81
29 Cocos (Keeling) Island 609 57 347
30 Comoros 569,237 86 489,544
31 Congo 2,527,841 15 379,176
32 Cote d’Ivoire 14,762,445 60 8,857,467
33 Croatia 5,004,112 1.2 60,049
34 Cyprus 744,609 33 245,721
35 Djibouti 427,642 94 401,983
36 Egypt 63,575,107 94 59,760,601
37 Equatorial Guinea 431,282 25 107,821
38 Eritrea 3,427,883 80 2,742,306
39 Ethiopia 57,171,662 65 37,161,580
40 Fiji 782,381 11 86,062
41 France 58,317,450 7 4,082,222
42 Gabon 1,172,798 1 11,728
43 Gambia 1,204,984 90 1,084,486
44 Gaza Strip 923,940 98.7 911,929
45 Georgia 5,219,810 11 574,179
46 Germany 83,536,115 3.4 2,840,228
47 Ghana 17,698,271 30 5,309,481
48 Gibraltar 28,765 8 2,301
49 Greece 10,538,594 1.5 158,079
50 Guinea 7,411,981 95 7,041,382
51 Guinea-Bissau 1,151,330 70 805,931
52 Guyana 712,091 15 106,814
53 Hong Kong 6,305,413 1 63,054
54 India 952,107,694 14 133,295,077
55 Indonesia 206,611,600 95 196,281,020
56 Iran 66,094,264 99 65,433,321
57 Iraq 21,422,292 97 20,779,623
58 Israel 5,421,995 14 759,079
59 Italy 57,460,274 1 574,603
60 Japan 125,449,703 1 1,254,497
61 Jordan 4,212,152 95 4,001,544
62 Kazakstan 16,916,463 51.2 8,661,229
63 Kenya 28,176,686 29.5 8,312,122
64 Kuwait 1,950,047 89 1,735,542
65 Kyrgyzstan 4,529,648 76.1 3,447,062
66 Lebanon 3,776,317 70 2,643,422
67 Liberia 2,109,789 30 632,937
68 Libya 5,445,436 100 5,445,436
69 Lesotho 1,970,781 10 197,078
70 Macedonia 2,104,035 30 631,211
71 Madagascar 13,670,507 20 2,734,101
72 Malawi 9,452,844 35 3,308,495
73 Malaysia 19,962,893 52 10,380,704
74 Maldives 270,758 100 270,758
75 Mali 9,653,261 90 8,687,935
76 Malta 375,576 14 52,581
77 Mauritania 2,336,048 100 2,336,048
78 Mauritius 1,140,256 19.5 222,350
79 Mayotte 100,838 99 99,830
80 Mongolia 2,496,617 4 99,865
81 Morocco 29,779,156 98.7 29,392,027
82 Mozambique 17,877,927 29 5,184,599
83 Namibia 1,677,243 5 83,862
84 Nepal 22,094,033 4 883,761
85 Netherlands 15,568,034 3 467,041
86 Niger 9,113,001 91 8,292,831
87 Nigeria 103,912,489 75 77,934,367
88 Norway 4,438,547 1.5 66,578
89 Oman 2,186,548 100 2,186,548
90 Pakistan 129,275,660 97 125,397,390
91 Panama 2,655,094 4 106,204
92 Philippines 74,480,848 14 10,427,319
93 Qatar 547,761 100 547,761
94 Reunion 679,198 20 135,840
95 Romania 21,657,162 20 4,331,432
96 Russia 148,178,487 18 26,672,127
97 Rwanda 6,853,359 1 68,534
98 Saudi Arabia 19,409,058 100 19,409,058
99 Senegal 9,092,749 95 8,638,112
100 Serbia and Montenegro 10,614,558 19 2,016,766
101 Sierra Leone 4,793,121 65 3,115,529
102 Singapore 3,396,924 17 577,477
103 Slovenia 1,951,443 1 19,514
104 Somalia 9,639,151 100 9,639,151
105 South Africa 41,743,459 2 834,869
106 Sri Lanka 18,553,074 9 1,669,777
107 Sudan 31,547,543 85 26,815,412
108 Suriname 436,418 25 109,105
109 Swaziland 998,730 10 99,873
110 Sweden 9,800,000 3.6 320,000
111 Syria 15,608,648 90 14,047,783
112 Tajikistan 5,916,373 85 5,028,917
113 Tanzania 29,058,470 65 18,888,006
114 Thailand 58,851,357 14 8,239,190
115 Togo 4,570,530 55 2,513,792
116 Trinidad and Tobago 1,272,385 12 152,686
117 Tunisia 9,019,687 98 8,839,293
118 Turkey 62,484,478 99.8 62,359,509
119 Turkmenistan 4,149,283 87 3,609,876
120 Uganda 20,158,176 36 7,256,943
121 United Arab Emirates 3,057,337 96 2,935,044
122 United Kingdom 58,489,975 2.7 1,579,229
123 United States 266,476,278 3.75 9,992,860
124 Uzbekistan 23,418,381 88 20,608,175
125 West Bank 1,427,741 75 1,070,806
126 Western Sahara 222,631 100 222,631
127 Yemen 13,483,178 99 13,348,346
128 Zaire 46,498,539 10 4,649,854
129 Zambia 9,159,072 15 1,373,861
130 Zimbabwe 11,271,314 15 1,690,697
5,076,228,458 1,447,615,717 22%
Muslim Population
Sno. Country Total Population Percentage Muslim Population
1 Afghanistan 22,664,136 100% 22,664,136
2 Albania 3,249,136 75% 2,436,852
3 Algeria 29,183,032 99% 28,891,202
4 Angola 10,342,899 25% 2,585,725
5 Antigua and Barbuda 65,647 n/a
6 Argentina 34,672,997 2 693,460
7 Aruba 67,794 5 3,390
8 Australia 18,260,863 2.09 382,000
9 Azerbaijan 7,676,953 93.4 7,170,274
10 Bahrain 590,042 100 590,042
11 Benin 5,709,529 15 856,429
12 Bangladesh 123,062,800 85 104,603,380
13 Bhutan 1,822,625 5 91,131
14 Bosnia and Herzegovina 2,656,240 40 1,062,496
15 Botswana 1,477,630 5 73,882
16 Brazil 162,661,214 0.6 1,000,000
17 Brunei 299,939 63 188,962
18 Bulgaria 8,612,757 14 1,205,786
19 Burkina Faso 10,623,323 50 5,311,662
20 Burma 45,975,625 10 4,597,563
21 Burundi 5,943,057 20 1,188,611
22 Cambodia 10,861,218 1 108,612
23 Cameroon 14,261,557 55 7,843,856
24 Canada 28,820,671 1.48 400,000
25 Central African Republic 3,274,426 55 1,800,934
26 Chad 6,976,845 85 5,930,318
27 China 1,210,004,956 11 133,100,545
28 Christmas Island 813 10 81
29 Cocos (Keeling) Island 609 57 347
30 Comoros 569,237 86 489,544
31 Congo 2,527,841 15 379,176
32 Cote d’Ivoire 14,762,445 60 8,857,467
33 Croatia 5,004,112 1.2 60,049
34 Cyprus 744,609 33 245,721
35 Djibouti 427,642 94 401,983
36 Egypt 63,575,107 94 59,760,601
37 Equatorial Guinea 431,282 25 107,821
38 Eritrea 3,427,883 80 2,742,306
39 Ethiopia 57,171,662 65 37,161,580
40 Fiji 782,381 11 86,062
41 France 58,317,450 7 4,082,222
42 Gabon 1,172,798 1 11,728
43 Gambia 1,204,984 90 1,084,486
44 Gaza Strip 923,940 98.7 911,929
45 Georgia 5,219,810 11 574,179
46 Germany 83,536,115 3.4 2,840,228
47 Ghana 17,698,271 30 5,309,481
48 Gibraltar 28,765 8 2,301
49 Greece 10,538,594 1.5 158,079
50 Guinea 7,411,981 95 7,041,382
51 Guinea-Bissau 1,151,330 70 805,931
52 Guyana 712,091 15 106,814
53 Hong Kong 6,305,413 1 63,054
54 India 952,107,694 14 133,295,077
55 Indonesia 206,611,600 95 196,281,020
56 Iran 66,094,264 99 65,433,321
57 Iraq 21,422,292 97 20,779,623
58 Israel 5,421,995 14 759,079
59 Italy 57,460,274 1 574,603
60 Japan 125,449,703 1 1,254,497
61 Jordan 4,212,152 95 4,001,544
62 Kazakstan 16,916,463 51.2 8,661,229
63 Kenya 28,176,686 29.5 8,312,122
64 Kuwait 1,950,047 89 1,735,542
65 Kyrgyzstan 4,529,648 76.1 3,447,062
66 Lebanon 3,776,317 70 2,643,422
67 Liberia 2,109,789 30 632,937
68 Libya 5,445,436 100 5,445,436
69 Lesotho 1,970,781 10 197,078
70 Macedonia 2,104,035 30 631,211
71 Madagascar 13,670,507 20 2,734,101
72 Malawi 9,452,844 35 3,308,495
73 Malaysia 19,962,893 52 10,380,704
74 Maldives 270,758 100 270,758
75 Mali 9,653,261 90 8,687,935
76 Malta 375,576 14 52,581
77 Mauritania 2,336,048 100 2,336,048
78 Mauritius 1,140,256 19.5 222,350
79 Mayotte 100,838 99 99,830
80 Mongolia 2,496,617 4 99,865
81 Morocco 29,779,156 98.7 29,392,027
82 Mozambique 17,877,927 29 5,184,599
83 Namibia 1,677,243 5 83,862
84 Nepal 22,094,033 4 883,761
85 Netherlands 15,568,034 3 467,041
86 Niger 9,113,001 91 8,292,831
87 Nigeria 103,912,489 75 77,934,367
88 Norway 4,438,547 1.5 66,578
89 Oman 2,186,548 100 2,186,548
90 Pakistan 129,275,660 97 125,397,390
91 Panama 2,655,094 4 106,204
92 Philippines 74,480,848 14 10,427,319
93 Qatar 547,761 100 547,761
94 Reunion 679,198 20 135,840
95 Romania 21,657,162 20 4,331,432
96 Russia 148,178,487 18 26,672,127
97 Rwanda 6,853,359 1 68,534
98 Saudi Arabia 19,409,058 100 19,409,058
99 Senegal 9,092,749 95 8,638,112
100 Serbia and Montenegro 10,614,558 19 2,016,766
101 Sierra Leone 4,793,121 65 3,115,529
102 Singapore 3,396,924 17 577,477
103 Slovenia 1,951,443 1 19,514
104 Somalia 9,639,151 100 9,639,151
105 South Africa 41,743,459 2 834,869
106 Sri Lanka 18,553,074 9 1,669,777
107 Sudan 31,547,543 85 26,815,412
108 Suriname 436,418 25 109,105
109 Swaziland 998,730 10 99,873
110 Sweden 9,800,000 3.6 320,000
111 Syria 15,608,648 90 14,047,783
112 Tajikistan 5,916,373 85 5,028,917
113 Tanzania 29,058,470 65 18,888,006
114 Thailand 58,851,357 14 8,239,190
115 Togo 4,570,530 55 2,513,792
116 Trinidad and Tobago 1,272,385 12 152,686
117 Tunisia 9,019,687 98 8,839,293
118 Turkey 62,484,478 99.8 62,359,509
119 Turkmenistan 4,149,283 87 3,609,876
120 Uganda 20,158,176 36 7,256,943
121 United Arab Emirates 3,057,337 96 2,935,044
122 United Kingdom 58,489,975 2.7 1,579,229
123 United States 266,476,278 3.75 9,992,860
124 Uzbekistan 23,418,381 88 20,608,175
125 West Bank 1,427,741 75 1,070,806
126 Western Sahara 222,631 100 222,631
127 Yemen 13,483,178 99 13,348,346
128 Zaire 46,498,539 10 4,649,854
129 Zambia 9,159,072 15 1,373,861
130 Zimbabwe 11,271,314 15 1,690,697
Total 5,076,228,458 1,447,615,717 22%
Reply
Mughalistan (or Mughalstan) is the name of an independent homeland proposed for the Muslims of India. This Mughal-Muslim state in the Indian subcontinent will include all of North India and Eastern India, and will be formed by merging Pakistan and Bangladesh through a large corridor of land running across the Indo-Gangetic plain, the heartland of India. This Mughalistan corridor will comprise Muslim-majority areas of Northern India and eastern India that will be partitioned for the second time in history.
The comprehensive plan for a second partition of India was first developed by the Mughalstan Research Institute (MRI) of Jahangir Nagar University (Bangladesh) under the patronage of the two intelligence agencies, Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and Bangladesh’s Director General of Forces Intelligence, DGFI. The “Mughalistan Reaserch Institute of Bangladesh” has released a map where a Muslim corridor named “Mughalistan” connects Pakistan and Bangladesh via India.
The Pakistani Punjabi-dominated ISI’s influence on MRI is evident even in the Punjabi-centric pronunciation of the word ‘Mughalstan’ (without the “i”), instead of the typical Urdu pronunciation (Mughalistan). Islamic Jihadis in India have been well-armed and well-funded by the neighbouring Islamic regimes, as part of Operation Topac – the late Pakistani President Zia-ul-Haq’s grandiose plot to balkanize India.
Not surprisingly, Osama Bin Laden has thrown his support behind the concept and creation of this Greater Pakistan to “liberate” the Muslims of India from the Hindus. The Mumbai underworld (led by Karachi-based don Dawood Ibrahim who executed the gruesome 1993 Mumbai bombings), Jamaat-e-Islami, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen have declared their unified support for creating this undivided Islamic nation in the Indian subcontinent. The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) and Indian Mujahideen are working in tandem with the aforementioned organizations to waged Jihad against the Hindus of India.
It is important to note that in its “holy war” against India, the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba has openly declared Hindus to be the “enemies of Islam” who should all be converted or killed. The Lashkar-e-Tayyaba group has repeatedly claimed through its journals and websites that its main aim is to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism. Jaish-e-Mohammed has vowed to “liberate” not just Kashmir, but also to hoist the Islamic flag atop the historic Red Fort after capturing New Delhi and the rest of India.
SIMI has championed the “liberation of India through Islam” and aim to restore the supremacy of Islam through the resurrection of the Khilafat (Islamic Caliphate), emphasis on the Muslim Ummah (Islamic) and the waging of Jihad on the Indian state, secularism, democracy and nationalism – the basic keystones of the Indian Constitution – as these concepts are antithetical to Islam. The Indian Mujahideen have sent several emails claiming responsibility for several bombings in Lucknow, Varanasi and Faizabad (in Uttar Pradesh), Bangalore, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and New Delhi in 2007 and 2008. The emails refer to notorious Islamic conquerors of India (Mohammed bin Qasim, Mohammad Ghauri and Mahmud Ghaznawi) as their role-models, refer to Hindu blood as “blood to be the cheapest of all mankind” and taunt Hindus that their “[Hindu] history is full of subjugation, humiliation, and insult [at the hands of Islamic conquerors]“.
The Indian Mujahideen’s emails warn the Hindus to “Accept Islam and save yourselves” and or else face a horrible fate: – “Hindus! O disbelieving faithless Indians! Haven’t you still realized that the falsehood of your 33 crore dirty mud idols and the blasphemy of your deaf, dumb, mute and naked idols of ram, krishna and hanuman are not at all going to save your necks, Insha-Allah, from being slaughtered by our [Muslim] hands?”
@ Satyagni…… Dude your a douche!!! jealousy is not good for you man !!! seriously you dont have anyother work
@kukku
Yes indeed! Satyagni should do another work and leave Zakir Mian to search for Muhammad in other scriptures and convert innocents tho his demonic cult !
For all who take objections on 4 wives and sex slavery
Concept of 4 wives is not compulsion but permission, inorder to support widows , divorcees , orphans , destitutes , prostitutes etc so that vices in the society can be prevented and status of women can be upgraded. peroid!!!!!
Concept of sex slavery was encouraged to abolish slavery and assimilate the slaves in the islamic society by giving them rights and security. period!!!!
This again goes to the hall of fame :”Concept of sex slavery was encouraged to abolish slavery” .ROFL..but in hindsight… no ROFL ..it’s disgusting!
Imagine a religion called Malsi and it’s follower called Milsum and it’s gid called Halla
The religion is so great that
1) A Milsum can marry four wives and can keep as many muslim women as sex slaves and captives
2) A Milsum has the pious duty of marrying the orphans and widows of the Muslims he kills in an attack
3) He provides his muslim slaves with rights and security
sshama is willing(or maybe forced) to join this religion ASAP.period!
Brother Indian Agnostic
What can be the biggest slavery than considering self as half intelligent than man and justifying such disgusting practices like polygamy and sex slavery in the name of religion? Seems slavery in Islam is severest since ever as slaves in past at least used to realize that they were slaves, but slaves of now aka Muslim women dont have even this realization.
May Eeshvar give courage to our Muslim sisters to realize that they are symbol of motherhood and not any commodity which can be sold and purchased in the slave markets.
@sshama
Sister, you are compelling us to think seriously that Muhammad was partially right for some cases regarding lower inteligence
Lets analyze polyandry in the similar way, you analyzed polygamy
Concept of 4 husbands can be accepted in order to support widowers, those who have divorced their wives (this is another plight of women in Islam that divorcees are always women), orphans, destitutes, and gigolos etc so that vices in the society can be prevented and status of men can be upgraded.
So thats great sister! Concept of slavery was encouraged to abolish slavery! I think deficiency of Vitamin D affects the intelligence and Muhammad knew this fact.
Arya and Indian Agnostic Brothers I think sshama is SSS sister both never want to acknowledge anything.
Kafir786 Bro
She’s a typical case of the one’s who have lost all self pride ….once you put a woman inside a head rag for 10-15 years this is what happens…the fuse goes off!
Thankfully educated Indian Muslim women are becoming proud partners in India’s growth story ..the @sshama s that come from orthodox male dominated ghettos are declining by the day
The muslim women is not what bothers me much ..Islam is so much against them that they need no advocate for the same..they have started making their voice heard ..we just need to stand along with them
what bothers me is my Indian muslim brothers who need to wake up and give up their religion sanctioned anti-women licenses like beating of wives, putting them inside head rags and considering them 1/4th worthy of a conjugal relationship and assuming it explicitly that they are half intelligent ( @sshama is an exception not the rule)
@sshama is a male muslim bro ..there i said it
You are right Indian Agnostic brother
@aginiveer: claim1
Vices increase coz ppl r unaware of the true religion. once nyone comes to God with a true heart he is blessed with the virtue of Islam and thats how Islam is spreading. Vices will always remain but to balance them even Islam is spreading.
claim2
More and more ppl are coming to Islam coz of its truth and not otherwise. If you have that opinion we have a diametrically opposite opinion. Who is right the time will show. As far as the question of visiting graves are concerned ppl visit graves to pray for the saints and due respect for those noble souls, it is perfectly alright to visit graves as per islam but not to worship them. And there are blacksheeps in every community, if somebody is practicing vices doesnt mean the number of muslims are decreasing, coz the ones who are embracing Islam steadily are coming to Islam through Quran and hence very rare chance for them to divert in cultural practices.
claim3
Quran is the most read religious book is a fact, indicating the sincerety of muslims as compared to other communities, and as far as comparing with harry porter book is concrened, I dont think harry porter can even touch surface level as compared to Quran, coz Quran is read by ppl of all ages and not only by children.
claim 4
There is no analogy between website writings and Quranic writings.
Your website is not the only site to maintain purity, but Quran is the only religious book to maintain purity. And whether your website maintains purity or not is not a matter of concerne, but Gods word maintaining purity is a matter of great concern. The belief something is from God and maintained pure itself increases its value. Quran is not the Gods book cos it has maintained its purity but the vice-versa.
As far change in Quran is concerned, your ‘change of verses’ concept is a big hoax invented by the recent anti-islamic websites. If that is the case kindly do your theisis and get a noble prize, coz many tried but failed maybe you can become the new-age einstein.
claim 5
Who cares what shankaracharyas say, if any person (not necessarily shankaracharya) comes with true heart towards Quran he will embrace Quran to be the word of God.
claim 6
Quran is the book of science too. You dont need to contact IRF for getting the list of sceintists, you can very well get it from internet youtube.
claim 7
Ppl of west is not the criteira. Women are accepting Islam and shunning vices and not the vice-versa, and thats what make it a special point. Coz you can see hordes of women accepting Islam, but I wonder why not hordes of anyone leaving Islam or left Islam at any point of time since the advent of Islam. . When Islam is so bad, so immoral , so imaginitive , so violent, so false the question always rises that then why ppl are only swelling the ranks of Islam throughout all times and ages. Whats so special in Islam that regardless age , time , place , sex , class Islam is just increasing.Tough point for you!!!
claim 8
Kaaba is at the centre and the black stone is not from milky way. Scientists should do research on it. But if at all they find the truth who will reveal it? Islam has only the support of God and the world stands as an enemy.
claim 9
Miracles in animals?? Non sense. Islam discourages miracles and enforces reason. Thats why when the haughty masses demanded miracle, God said the greatest miracle is Quran. Islam shuns miracles (except a few) but stresses on reason and logic. Miracles are the bench mark of hinduism, that their books contain fairy tales and their masses are crazy over miracles and blind faith. Spare Islam the horror!!!
claim 10
No one believes a muslim can leave Islam. If at all we agree that some may be leaving Islam but it is surely negligible compared to the ones accepitng. As far Ali-sina etall are concrened, cut the crap, who knows who is sitting behind the internet and BTW who is Ali sina, just an internet blogger. There are many such ppl who makes such false claims posing to be muslims. Who cares!!!!!!!
@sshama
Sister, Can you please give me one reason that why should we take you seriously when you accept that you are half intelligent than us? Why are you contradicting yourself by replying a male when you believe that your intelligence is lesser? Anyway, since I dont believe your half intelligent theory in general, I give my views on your each point.
1. Thing here is that Islam and sins cant increase simultaneously. If one is at boom, other has to come down because total population is after all divided into believers and non believers only!
2. If righteousness will be revealed later, why are Zakir and others keep on shouting Islam is best and other religions are inferior and they should not be preached in Islamic countries? And dont try to fool people. Muslims do everything with the grave what hindus do with idols, i.e. bowing, presenting flowers and chaddar. They believe that the person in the grave will help them get Allah’s blessings or solve the problems.
3. Its not about what you think, its about facts and the same logic, which Zakir and co use, logic of majority!
4. Can you point out any Vedic verse which is corrupted?
And you wrote-“Quran is not the Gods book cos it has maintained its purity but the vice-versa.” So you mean that Quran is pure because it is from Allah.
If so, why were previous revelations got corrupted, which were from same Allah? And please dont give foolish logic that God did not want them to be pure. Because if you say so, there will not be cause effect relationship between God’s book and its purity, which is the basis of your current logic. Please answer it based on the same logic.
And dont expect people like Einstein to put their head into Quran just to get noble prize on it! They know the importance of common sense and logic, which leaves you as soon as you read Quran!
5. Zakir Naik and millions of his followers care!
6. Can you name few?
7. Visit http://Satyagni.com/1184/muslim-wife-concubine/ and http://Satyagni.com/1174/islam-and-women-rights/ and all other articles on Women in Islam.
8. Where are those renowned scientists who have embraced Islam? Others are wise enough, not to work on Kaba, the centre of earth!
9. Islam discourages miracles! Sorry to say then that Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and above all, Allah are anti Islamic!
10. “No one believes a Muslim can leave Islam”
This is the only point which I agree with you completely. And here is the reason
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRl5c-xPVA0
@Arya: What can be the biggest slavery than considering self as half intelligent than man
Alas you could change the facts. Slavery??…in what sense….Slavery was something which the upper caste forced on lower caste in the vedic society. Women has good sense of smell compared to men so does acknowledgement of this fact makes men slaves? I notice you guys lack the guidance and insight in subtle realities, and philosophies of life.
@Arya: Seems slavery in Islam is severest since ever as slaves in past at least used to realize that they were slaves, but slaves of now aka Muslim women dont have even this realization.
Ya ders no realization coz thers no existence.
@Arya: May Eeshvar give courage to our Muslim sisters to realize that they are symbol of motherhood and not any commodity which can be sold and purchased in the slave markets.
Who will acknowledge this fact more than a muslima. When women of other communities of good families are busy glamourising themselves for the next beauty contest or walking semi-nudes on fashion ramps, muslimas gain teachings on motherhood ,hijab and her duties for the society.
@Arya: Lets analyze polyandry in the similar way, you analyzed polygamy
Spare the horror!! Thats why I told you guys need to understand life and philosophy of Islam. Comparing men and women ?? Big joke !! If men and women are equal, why cant women enter gents wash rooms or vice versa, or why is there discrimination on the levels of sports in olympics. Come on grow up!!. Come up with something interesting.
@sshama
1. Slavery in the sense that Muhammad and his Mujahideen could rape the women of enemies after beheading their husbands and fathers. In the sense that slaves could be sold and purchased in the market after using. In the sense that an already married woman can be used to satisfy the lust of his master.
2. Point out a single verse from Vedas which talks of caste system.
3. Not realization does not mean non existence, rather its the utter ignorance due to Vitamin D deficiency which has dragged you down to such a lower level of intellect.
4. Many Muslimas are seen almost full nude in movies, ramps, and beauty contests. Most of the Bollywood stars both males and females are Muslims and Muslimas! Dont you know that?
5. Its really big joke to expect any intellectual response from a sister like sshama who is suffering from Vitamin D deficiency. And your demand of getting something interesting was really interesting! It confirms that you prefer “interesting” things over truth and that is why you have preferred Islam over humanity!
BHAGAVAD GITA
The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita.
Consider the following verse from the Gita:
“Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.”
[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]
The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.
UPANISHADS:
The Upanishads are considered sacred scriptures by the Hindus.
The following verses from the Upanishads refer to the Concept of God:
1.
“Ekam evadvitiyam”
“He is One only without a second.”
[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1
2.
“Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah.”
“Of Him there are neither parents nor lord.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2
3.
“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3
4.
The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:
“Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam.”
“His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4
1[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 447 and 448]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 1 ‘The Upanishads part I’ page 93]
2[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page 263.]
3[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 736 & 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]
4[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]
THE VEDAS
Vedas are considered the most sacred of all the Hindu scriptures. There are four principal Vedas: Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda.
1. Yajurveda
The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:
1.
“na tasya pratima asti
“There is no image of Him.”
[Yajurveda 32:3]5
2.
“shudhama poapvidham”
“He is bodyless and pure.”
[Yajurveda 40:8]6
3.
“Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste”
“They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements” (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). “They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti.”
[Yajurveda 40:9]7
Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.
4.
The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:
“Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander.”
[Yajurveda 40:16]8
5[Yajurveda by Devi Chand M.A. page 377]
6[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]
7[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]
8[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Griffith page 541]
2. Atharvaveda
The Atharvaveda praises God in Book 20, hymn 58 and verse 3:
1. “Dev maha osi”
“God is verily great”
[Atharvaveda 20:58:3]9
3. Rigveda
1.
The oldest of all the vedas is Rigveda. It is also the one considered most sacred by the Hindus. The Rigveda states in Book 1, hymn 164 and verse 46:
“Sages (learned Priests) call one God by many names.”
[Rigveda 1:164:46]
2.
The Rigveda gives several different attributes to Almighty God. Many of these are mentioned in Rigveda Book 2 hymn 1.
Among the various attributes of God, one of the beautiful attributes mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3, is Brahma. Brahma means ‘The Creator’. Translated into Arabic it means Khaaliq. Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Khaaliq or ‘Creator’ or Brahma. However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it.
Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda:
“Na tasya Pratima asti”
“There is no image of Him.”
[Yajurveda 32:3]
Another beautiful attribute of God mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3 is Vishnu. Vishnu means ‘The Sustainer’. Translated into Arabic it means Rabb. Again, Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Rabb or ‘Sustainer’ or Vishnu. But the popular image of
9[Atharveda Samhita vol 2 William Dwight Whitney page 910]
Vishnu among Hindus, is that of a God who has four arms, with one of the right arms holding the Chakra, i.e. a discus and one of the left arms holding a ‘conch shell’, or riding a bird or reclining on a snake couch. Muslims can never accept any image of God. As mentioned earlier this also goes against Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter 4 verse 19.
“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him”
The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being:
3.
“Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata”
“O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone.”
[Rigveda 8:1:1]10
4.
“Devasya samituk parishtutih”
“Verily, great is the glory of the Divine Creator.”
[Rigveda 5:1:81]11
Brahma Sutra of Hinduism:
The Brahma Sutra of Hinduism is:
“Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan”
“There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit.”
Thus only a dispassionate study of the Hindu scriptures can help one understand the concept of God in Hinduism.
0[Rigveda Samhita vol. 9, pages 2810 and 2811 by Swami Satya Prakash Sarasvati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]
11[Rigveda Samhita vol. 6, pages 1802 and 1803 by Swami Satya Prakash Saraswati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]
first speak abut this……….
@Bro saa,
So you do accept the authenticity of Bhagavat Gita, Upanishad and the Vedas? Does that mean you also believe in law of Karma, Rebirth, no meat eating etc which is also elaborated in the above text?
@SAA
this foolish argument by Dr. Naik has been debunked way back in 2008 by Dr. Radhasyam Brahmchari
Islam is a creed that cannot survive without lies. Any so called Islamic scholar, whenever presents a discourse on Islam before a non-Muslim civilized audience, begins with a blatant lie that Islam means piece. While, in fact, Islam is just the opposite of that called peace. Though it is well-known that Islam treats women no better than domestic animals- simply as objects for satiation of lust and a machine for procreation of children, these scholars say that the Koran has given dignity to women and Islam provides equal rights for men and women. While the Koran clearly states that each and every non-Muslim is a kafir, but these scholars, solely to confuse the entire non-Muslim population in the world, tell lies and say the word kafir stands for an atheist. The Koran clearly states that, jihad is the all-out war, which is to be waged against the non-Muslim kakirs to slaughter them en-masse by bloody massacre and bring the entire world under the banner of Islam, these scholars tells lies and say that jihad is a mental war between good and bad in a man.
As a matter of fact, Islam considers telling lies to infidels or to give false testimony against them in the court of law for the benefit of Islam and for the benefit of jihad, a religious duty for every Muslim. Furthermore, the practice is called taqiyya or holy deception. Allah admires attaches merit to such a liar and rewards him profusely on the the day of last judgment (Qiyamah). Recently, a Muslim commentator has clarified that on three occasions, like (i) in war, (ii) or to win over a women’s heart and (iii) or for deceiving the infidels, lying is not a sin for the Muslims. So it is evident that Dr Zakir Naik will also be profusely rewarded by Allah for deceiving the infidels with his lies.
It has been said earlier that this author has several video CDs containing lecture sessions of Dr Zakir Naik and in two of them Dr Naik tries to establish similarities between Hinduism and Islam. As usual, the lecture begins with condemnation of Hinduism and he says that name Hindu has only geographical significance and the term has been imported by outsiders or foreign invaders to identify the people of India and their culture. But the holy book of Islam, or Koran mentions Islam as a religion in several places such as verses 19, 85, 119 and 185 of the Sura Al Imran (the 3rd Sura). Moreover, Koran mentions Musalman in the verse 64 of the same Sura. Hearing his words the audience, mostly Muslim blockheads, is seen to be jubilant. But no one audience pointed out that a religion should be judged not by the name, but by the message it carries. However, Dr Naik , later on, clarifies and says that the real name of Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma, or Eternal Religion. Though there is no English word equivalent to the Sanskrit word Dharma, the word religion is usually taken as the English equivalent of Dharma.
Dr Naik then clarifies that Islam is not a new religion originated by Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago, and it came into being as soon as Allah created the first human being Adam in heaven. In my previous article “A Few Questions to Dr Zakir Naik on Islam”, I have shown that Allah created Adam not earlier than 4,127 years ago, and hence Islam, according to Dr Naik’s claim, cannot be older than the same number of years. But how old are the Vedas? Dr Naik admits that, according to Western scholars, the Vedas are the oldest literature of the mankind. But then ridicules the Hindus and says that they are polytheists and worship many Gods, while Muslims worship only one God Allah.
But it seems that Dr Naik is not aware that Hinduism is the oldest monotheist religion in the world. Apparently it appears to a commoner that Hinduism is polytheistic as Hindus worship idols of many deities. But whosoever has tried to delve into it has found that Hinduism is absolutely monotheistic. In Hinduism, God (or Îúvara) is one, but deities are many. Even a Hindu child knows that, all these deities are the manifestations of one God (Iúvara or Brahman). So the seers of the Vedas say,
Ekṃ sadviprâ bahudhâ vadanti Agniṃ Yamaṃ Mâtariúvânam âhuḥ -RV (1/164/46). (God is one but people call Him by many names like Agni, yama, Mâtariúvâ etc.) or
Suparṇ Viprâḥ kavayo bacobhirekaṃ santaṃ vahudhâ
kalpayanti- RV (10/114/5). (Him
(With fair wings though there is only One (bird), sages imagin
many).
So, when Dr Naik designates Hinduism a polytheistic religion and ridicules Hindus for worshiping many Gods, he exposes his ignorance of even a b c of Hinduism.
According to Dr Naik, Islam is the only religion that is strictly monotheistic, as its followers worship only one God Allah. But it seems, from Koran and other Islamic scriptures, that Allah is not confident that he is the only God in the world (not in the universe as Allah is aware only about heaven and earth).
Had Allah been the only God, it would not have been possible for man to find another God to worship. And had Allah been confident that there is no other God except him, he should not have been jealous of another God. For example, let us imagine a village where there is only one well as the source of fresh water. Hence there would not have been any difference whether the villagers drink water from a glass or from a pitcher, or from a jug. And as there is not an alternative source, it must have been derived from that lone well. In a similar manner, if Allah knew that there is no other God, he would have been confident that people will not find another God to worship.
But the behavioral pathern of Allah suggests that he is not confident that he is the only God. He seems always to be suspicious that there may be another God and people may worship that God instead of him and thus they may create a partner to him. So the scared Allah warns man not to worship another God or create a partner to him and says, “Say, ‘people of the Book, let us come to an agreement: that we will worship none but Allah, that we will associate none with Him, and that none of us shall set up mortals as deities besides Allah” (3: 64) [tr: N J Dawood (only the word God replaced by Allah].
In this context, it should be mentioned here that, as the Hindu God is confident that He is the only God in this universe, He does not become jealous of another God and says,
Ye api anya devatâ bhaktâ yajante úraddhayânvitaḥ z
Te api mameva kaunteya yajantyabidhipûrbakam zz Bhagavadgitâ (9: 23)
“O Kaunteya (Arjuna), even those who worship other gods with devotion (bhakti), they do really worship Me, though the rite differ from the norm” (tr: R C Zaehner). The Hindu God does not become angry and say, “you have committed the foulest sin by worshiping other gods or associating partner (shirk) with Me and I shall throw you in hell fire as a punishment for this sin, because He is confident that He is the only God, and no one could find another God to worship.
To speak the truth, Allah is not a god at all. Allah is a cruel tyrant, a barbaric killer and a violent despot. In fact, the Islamic Umma is the biggest criminal gang on earth and Allah is leader and guide of that criminal gang and is trying to establish himself as the God of the world (not of the universe) with the help of the mujahidin through terror and bloodshed. He is therefore always scared that a member of his gang may slip out of his grip and start to worship that real God, the real ruler of the universe. So he has enforced strict law that if any one of his gang tries to desert the gang, he should immediately be declared an apostate and put to death. One should also notice that, this is the standing rule of every other underworld criminal gang. If any member of the gang leaves the gang, even with the intention of leading a decent life, the other members of the gang murder him instantly due to the reason that he may disclose the secrets of the gang.
Allah in the Ṛgveda:
It has been mentioned earlier that the lectures of Dr Zakir Naik are full of naked lies. The reader should also recall that, the most merciful and all knowing and all observing Allah has given clean chit to these people like Zakir Naik to tell any lie, to do any mischief and play any deception with the kafirs, if it helps to influence them and bring them under Allah’s fold or for propagation of Islam. And Dr Zakir Naik makes unrelenting use of that command of Allah in all his lectures. So, his claim that Allah is mentioned in the Ṛgveda is also a pure lie. Dr Naik says that the verses (2/1/11), (3/30/10), (9/67/30) and (1/13/9) of the Ṛgveda contain mentioning of Allah. When I opened the Ṛgveda, I was really dumbfounded that a man like Dr Zakir Naik, the president of a recognized institute like the Islamic Research Foundation (IRF) in Mumbai, could propagate such blatant lies and that too in open gatherings.
The reader should recall that the word Âllâh has been derived from two Arabic words âl (the) and ilâh (anobject of worship). In Ṛgveda, there is a word iḷâ, with a completely different meaning. But Dr Naik, whenever could find the Sanskrit word iḷâ in the Ṛgveda, he, as his sacred duty of holy deceiption (taqyya), has declared it as mentioning of Allah, without a second thought.
For example, the verse (2/1/11) of Ṛgveda says,
Tvamagne aditirdeva dâúuṣe tvaṃ hotrâ bhâratî
bardhase girâz
Tvamiḷâ úatahimasi dakṣase tvaṃ bṛtrahâ vasupate
sarasvatî zz
“Thou, God (Agni), art Aditi to him who offers gifts: thou Hotrâ, Bhâratî, art strengthed by the song. Tthou art the hundred-wintered Iḷâ to give strength, O Lord of wealth! Vṛtra-slayer and sarasvatî” [tr: ibid]. According to Sâyana, the most celebrated commentator on the Vedas, iḷâ is the other name of Agni (the deity of fire). Furthermore, the entire Hymn (2/1) has been dedicated to God Agni and hence there is no doubt that the word iḷâ in the verse stands for Agni.
The word iḷâ also occurs in the verse (1/13/9) of the Ṛgveda, that reads,
Iḷâ, sarasvatî mahî tisro devîrmayobhuvaḥ z
Varhiḥ sîdantasridhaḥ zz
“Iḷâ, Sarasvatî and Mahî, three godesses who bring delight, be seated, peaceful, on the grass”. In this verse, Iḷâ is a godess and, according to Sâyana, Iḷâ in this verse may stand for earth, or cow, or vâc (speech).
In a similar manner, there is another word Alâ in the Ṛgveda that refers to various deities. The verse (3/30/10) contains the word and says,
Alâtṛṇo vala Indra vrajo goḥ pura hantorbhayamano byâra z
Sugatpatho akṛṇonniraje gaḥ prâvanvâṇîḥ purahûtaṃ
dhamantîḥ zz
“He who withheld the kine, in silence yielded in fear before thy blow, O Indra. He made paths easy to drive forth the cattle. Loud-breathing praises helped the much-invoked One” [tr: ibid]. Here, Alâ is the other name of Indra. The entire Hymn (3/30) has been dedicated to Indra and this confirms that the word Alâ in the verse refers to Indra. But, as the word Alâ sounds like Allah, Dr Zakir Naik, like a fool, has taken it to be a mentioning of Allah.
The word Alâ also occurs in the verse (9/67/30) of the Ṛgveda that says,
Alâyasya paraúurṇâúa tamâ pavasva deva soma z
Âkhuṃ cideva deva soma zz
– “O, deva Soma, we pray to you so that the battle-axe of our enemy gets broken- Alâ, you descend and kill our irretating enemy”. Though the Hymn (9/67) has been dedicated to both Soma and Agni, scholars believe that the word Alâ in this verse refers to Soma or the Moon (or Soma) .
According to Dr Zakir Naik, every Sanskrit dictionary contains the word Allah and says that Allah is the God. In the most authentic Sanskrit-English Dictionary by Monier Williams (A Sanskrit-English Dictionary, Motilal Benarasidass, Delhi,1981), the present author could not find the word Âllah. The words, this author could find that sound like Allah are; Al (to be competent or able), Ala (the sting in the tail of a scorpion), Alât (a firebrand or coal) and Âla (spawn, any discharge of poisonous matter from a venomous animal). Another authentic Sanskrit-English Dictionary (The Student’s Sanskrit-English Dictionary by Vaman Shivaram Apte, Motilal Benarasidass, Delhi, 2005), there is a word Allâ and says that it stands for mother.
Conclusion:
From the discussions presented above, it becomes evident that, all the utterences of Dr Zakir Naik regarding mentioning of Allah in the Ṛgveda and in the Sanskrit dictionaries are pure lies. But the question remains: Why Dr Naik is hell bent on to discover mentioning of Allah in Sanskrit literature? It has been mentioned earlier that Allah is most merciful and kind (Rahmanir Rahim) only to the Muslims. But for the non-Muslim kafirs, Allah is cruel beast and a barbaric killer. And most importantly, Allah is not at all the God or Lord of this creation and Dr Naik is striving hard to dignify Allah and to establish him as the God by discovering his name in the Vedas. His efforts are nothing but finding a pedigree for Allah.
WAKE UP!
@Arya:
1. That was hilarious bro…..that means you guys will never understand nor will try to understand ‘slaves assimilation; concept of Islam. Reducing a noble concept to ‘sex and rape’ only reflects you guys religious background. What more one can expect from the followers of some religion where even the ‘gods’ are busy in consuming drugs , pornography , fornication , alcohol consumptions , dancing and enjoying etc. Do you really know what is rape? It is illegal under any constitution or govt. But what when Govt. tries to help the homeless and destitute by making one family responsible for each slave , that the family takes the responsibility of housing , boarding and lodging of he slave in return for the household service he/she makes. This is called ‘best human resource management’ for me and maybe ‘rape’ for you. Try to read and understand the whole picture and a broader point of view and in context rather than trying to ‘copy paste’ with wrong intentions. If that would had been the case Islam would not had spread on international level. Ppl who embraced Islam even strived for it till their last breath.
2. What about the rig veda verse, God has created brahmins from head , khstriyas from chest , vasihnavas from thighs and shudras from feet ?
3. Non relaisation even does not necessarily mean existence.
4.Many non muslimas can be also be seen. For one muslima I can show you a thousand non-muslimas. Most of the bollywood stars? You are wrong in fact most of the non-muslimas can be seen.
5. It confirms that you prefer “interesting” things over truth and that is why you have preferred Islam over humanity!
Truth …my foot!!!!….What you guys had been saying were just hoaxes , myths and wishful thinkings. So next time pls come up with some interesting story. That is what I meant.
Yes…Muslims definitely prefer Islam over humanity. Coz Islam is even more than humanity and humanity is a subset of Islam.
Thnx Bro.
@Sshama
namaste sister,
1)There is no such thing as gods and goddesses, you are confusing this site with modern hinduism. This is a Vedic site where we follow Vedic terminology of believing in One formless Ishwar, not gods with forms.
Vedas strongly condemn the consumption of alcohol and drugs so how can you say all this nonsense??? Many so called gods you seen were made by fake adulterated books. This site only considers Vedas so please limit your speech to Vedas. As per Vedas there are no gods, BUT ONE FORMLESS ISHWAR. As I said before, helping helpless women is a great virtuous deed, but when Quran allows one to use them as a commodity, this is where the Quranic teachings get nasty. I am shocked you being a woman can support such religion. All I have to say that your lucky not to be born in the old days, so now a days you can open your mouth as much as you want in the favour of islam. Do you think muslim women are happy in islamic states??? How about killing apostates, why does islam permit such stupidity and terrorism???
2)
Often mantras of Purush Sukta are cited to prove that Brahmins originated from Mouth, Kshatriya from hands, Vaishya from thighs and Shudras from legs of God. Thus these varnas are birth-based. However nothing could be more deceptive. Let us see why:
a. Vedas describe God to be shapeless and unchangeable. How can such a God take shape of a gigantic person if He is shapeless. Refer Yajurved 40.8.
b. If indeed this were true, this would defy the theory of Karma of Vedas. Because as per Theory of Karma, one’s family of birth can change as per his or her deeds. So one born in Shudra family can take birth as king’s son in next birth. But if Shudras are born from feet of God, how can same Shudra again take birth from hands of God?
c. Soul is timeless and never born. So soul can have no Varna. It is only when it takes birth as human that it has a chance to opt a Varna. Then what is meant by a Varna coming from one part of God’s body? If Soul did not take birth from God’s body, then does it mean body of soul is prepared from God’s body parts? But as per Vedas, even nature is eternal. And same atoms recycle among various humans. So it is technically impossible for any one taking birth from God’s body, even if we assume God to be having a body.
d. The said Purush Sukta is in 31st Chapter of Yajurved, apart from Rigved and Atharvaved with some variations. In Yajurved it is 31.11. To see what it actually means, let us look at the previous mantra 31.10.
It asks a question – Who is mouth? Who is hand? Who is thigh and who is leg?
The next mantra gives the answer – Brahmin is mouth. Kshatriya is hand. Vaishya is thigh and Shudra becomes the legs.
Note that the mantra does not say that Brahmin “takes birth” from mouth…It says Brahmin “is” mouth. Because if the mantra would mean “takes birth” it would not answer the question in previous mantra “Who is mouth?”
For example, if I ask “Who is Dashrath?”, an answer like “Rama is born from Dashrath” would be meaningless!
The actual meaning is:
In society, Brahmins or intellectuals form the brain or head or mouth that think and speak. Kshatriya or defense personnel form the hands that protect. Vaishya or producers and businessmen form the thigh that support and nurture (note that thigh bone or femur produces blood and is strongest bone). In Atharvaveda, instead of Uru or Thigh, the word “Madhya” is used meaning that it denotes also the stomach and central part of body.
Shudra or Labor force form the legs that lay the foundation and make the body run.
3)
when will you realize islam to be a fairy tale and not a religion???
4)
I suggest we criticize scriptures instead of people because scriptures are the guidelines for our present and future guidance. Good and bad people exist everywhere.
5)Covering up yourself is a good thing, I respect that, but not to an extent like islam where a woman is subjected to a vitamin D loss. Moreover, even in terms of hygene, its not worth it.
@sshama
1. Sister, our Indian culture is yet to grow up to the level of Arabs where Brother and Sister can teach each other what is rape. But here I give some hadith in which Muhammad allowed his men to rape women.
Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3371:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-’azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
Book 008, Number 3373:
Abu Sa’id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl (coitus interruptus) with them. We then asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born.
Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s Apostle about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.”
And do you know sister, who was Rehana?
And I hope you wont be the part of this “best human resource management” ever, in which you will have to go to your master whenever he calls you for sex, even if you are married.
2. There is no such Mantra. Visit http://Satyagni.com/888/caste-vedas/ and read the actual Mantra.
3. Would you like to allow any man, who is your master and you are his slave, to even touch you if you are already married? Can you imagine, if someone abduct you and keep you as slave, would you be happy? If yes then indeed you are unable to realize anything! And if no, Islam is wrong for allowing such ill practices.
4. Total Muslim males and females working in Bollywood have higher fraction than the total fraction of Muslims in India. What does it show?
5. Could you prove any of our claim wrong?
And ask those women in jails in Islamic countries like Pakistan, most of whom are tortured and put to death because of their crime that they were raped and they could not bring forth 4 witnesses of the same. Ask them about humanity and Islam and then you will know that Islam and humanity are two mutually exclusive sets, whose intersection (common portion) is a null set!
@Arya:
1. Sins are increasing coz non-muslims are still more in numbers than muslims and they going towards sins faster than they are going towards Islam.
2. Zakir naik is shouting just to bring non-muslims to the true path and bring grave visiting muslims to the mainstream Islam. I think you yourself replied you question. As far as truth to be revealed is concerend, truth had always spread and been spreading since past 1400 yrs. Islam has been increasing since the advent of Islam and still going strong. Just for your info check the statistics for just one age between 1934-1984. In that span of 50 yrs Islam was found to be the fastest growing religion with 235% rate of growth. There was no zakir naik that time shouting and no sword.
3. If that is the logic….then TOI or any famous news paper would had been from God. What say? Never did Zakir told and never any muslim believe that Quran is from God since it is widely read. Widely reading only shows the sincerety of muslims towards Quran, and morever arabic is not a dead langauge like sanskrit whihc is spoken widely in the world and not only in saudi arabia, and not like sanskrit which is not even spoken in india leave about in the world. And arabic cant die, coz its the language of Quran the last book. If after Quran some book had to come then even arabic would had been dead long back. But today only Quran is the religious book whose original manuscript is present in the language widely spoken in the world. Rest all the books contain their original language which no one understands today.
4. What a joke. Vedas and uncorrupted??? How you will compare with the original script. Where is the original script . When was vedas revealed, who brough vedas, which community received vedas, what was the original langauge. What is the criteria to judge whether vedas corrupted or not. No one knows this. So no question of judging or checking. It doesnt not fall even in the category to be taken seriously. And for millions of years it was just passed on by father to son in brahmin family. You might be very intelligent to think vedas is from God or uncorrupted, but I am sorry, I am not so clever to trust the millions of generations of brahmins who passed the so called revealations by mouth to ear. But how can I forget, that brahmins are infallible and afterall created from the head of God. To err is human but who told brahmins were humans, they were Gods afterall. So you stay content with vedas abd let me stay content with Quran. Vedas will the last option for any sane mind, as far as the criteria is ‘Book from God’.
And previous revealations got corrupted same as vedas or puranas got corrupted. What do you mean how they got corrupted. Ask the corrupt ppl who changed it?? Now if you wanna say since it is revealed from God how can it be changed?? Who told you if something is revealed from God it cant change unless God takes the guarantee??
‘And please dont give foolish logic that God did not want them to be pure.’
Whats foolishness in this. Atleast it is not so foolish than to believe that Vedas are pure coz the brahmins want it to remain pure by some fairy tale mechanism. If your logic says that humans are infallible why cant our logic say God is infallible. And God has power over all things, if he wants he will allow corruption and if he wants he will protect the book. Quran will never change, I am saying so confidently coz the Quran says so. And you will see it till you live that this book will not change. Its an open challenge. And pls dont repeat the nonsensical ‘number verses theory’.
No eisntein will ever get a noble prize for finding changes in Quran coz no one will be able to do so.
5. Shanakaracharya s are invited for the followers of shankaracharya, not muslims, coz for muslims Quran is sufficient.
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzdePKItsFk&p=9D63B8FF84668E6A&playnext=1&index=20
check this out….u can find 100s videos…but this link is for famous scientists.
type in youtube “Islam Is the future religion of the world”. This video is about seven to eight minute long.
7. I dont believe in Satyagni links. They are not worth reading coz too immature.
8. Many scientists embraced Islam after studying on Kaaba. But it wont come on headlines.
9.I told you Islam discourages miracles. I am talking about Quran and prophet muhammad. All other prophets showed miracles coz the ages was of miracles. But todays age is of reason and logic. Thats why Quran stresses on reason and logic. Every prophet had a different background.
10. I cannot see your reason. It is not visible and I cant see what you sent. I guess u might had shown some apsotasy punishment from saudi arabia.
@sshama
Sister, you did not tell us, why should we take you seriously when your intelligence is doubtful as per Muhammad and yourself?
1. So Islam is not fastest growing! It is Kufr which is fastest growing and thus the claim of Zakir and his followers is wrong.
2. But previously you wrote that “Who is right the time will show”, and you did not give any logic except it, then why is Zakir trying to be time?
3. How does sincerity matter if book is immoral, unscientific, and barbaric? Does it not show the foolishness of its followers than anything else?
4. No one knows about Vedas? Have you ever read any article on Vedas in this site? Read some and then try writing something.
5. So you agree that Shankaracharya’s views are worth preaching!
6. I asked about renowned scientists and not university professors!
7. ?????? BTW, what are you doing now except visiting one of Satyagni’s link?
8. And most of them remained non Muslims! What does it show?
9. Yes, so you are on right path now sister. This is what we are trying to convey! All Abrahmic books, which contain any miracles etc are not worth today and thus should be discarded. And Quran is no exception. Are not miracles mentioned in Quran???
10. Its not your fault sister, these are symptoms of severe Vitamin D deficiency. Please consult a doctor and get your treatment, get well soon.
i m so proud of u sshama!!!!!!!!!
@shama
Who the hell are you bitch to say that vedas are uncorrupted? This is parroting same islamic line, that all previous scriptures are corrupted.
The bhagwadgeeta is uncorrupted since times immemorial. Show me different versions on geeta, I will convert in front of yu to islam.
Your islamic book koran had hundred versions. The third caliph uthman, had some foresight, he took one version in his hand, said this is authentic, and BURNED all other versions. hence you idiots say koran is uncorrupted and there are no differenct versions of koran.
Learn your false religion first before commenting on others bitch !!!!!
You know what we did to bitches like you in konan poshpora in kashmir? Gang raped all of them. Rajputana rifles, my caste I am proud of it.
Namaste hindu militant
You have again disappointed me and proven that you are inspired by the impotent rapist Muhammad instead of great Maharana Pratap and Shivaji. Raping someone at the gun point is the legacy of the bastards of Ghauri, Ghaznavi and Babur etc and not of our Indian legends.
You dont need to be too proud of your caste because it were Rajputs who used to offer their daughters to the bastards Mughals in order to avoid conflicts. I really admire the true warriors be it Rajputs, Maratha, Sikhs, Gurkha, Jat, Gujjar or anyone who defended their faith but I spit on those including Rajputs who sent their women to the brothels of ghazis. So I request you not to bring this stupid caste/race concept into the discussions.
Calling anyone bitch here can never serve any purpose. Vent your anger on the real culprits, dont abuse unnecessarily on someone who even does not know why you are so angry at him/her.
Thanks
We are banning Hindu Militant for his hatred filled vulgar comments. Satyagni is strongly against casteism of any sort. Purely from family perspective, there are many so-called Rajputs in Satyagni team as well. However, if that be the parameter for identity, then if any Rajput ever raped any woman, that would be the most shameful slur in name of Rajput. Rapists should be hanged to death rather than admired shamelessly. We are proud of Rajputs like Rana Pratap who safeguarded the chastity of women of even enemies and equal noble examples set by legendary Shivaji.
Regardless of differences in viewpoints or ideology, a society or a mind that does not rise up to accord motherly respect to women and can stoop to level of justifying the most heinous concept of rape is bound to be destroyed. And Satyagni would work its utmost for being instrument of destruction of such mindsets.
One final piece of advice to Hindu militant – if indeed you feel so militant and truly proud to be Hindu, study the essence of Vedas and show the valor in destroying the animal instincts of hatred and lust. Only cowards try to run away from this real battle and justify being animals.
To other visitors of Satyagni – we apologize for these stupid comments and severely condemn any attempt to denigrate the Motherly force aka women regardless of religion, geography or whatever. We also condemn any attempt to justify hatred against an entire community or population. The essence of vedas is – Be Manushya/ Human.
Admin
@ HM
Mellow down, mate. It might be that some incident has caused you some pain, and that is why you give vent to your pent-up frustration in this platform, but that does not in anyway justify this over-the-top reaction to individuals who might not be distantly related to it. I am also taking a contrarian view here: There have been muslim posters who have been very abusive in their tone and tenor, and that is where I also feel (like KalBhairav) that there is a need for people like hindu militant (who should be directing their salvos at them). You may as well strike down my IP coz I retorted in very same manner I was attacked on more than one occasion, and I strongly believe that you cannot deal with maniacs in a decent, gentle manner; although, at the same time, I also feel that HM’s artillery was misdirected.
After a certain point, we cannot win over Muslim terrorists with logic. HM’s posts sometimes used the only language that the Islamic mind knows – violence and killing the opposing camp. It is worth pondering whether this will eventually be the only way in which we will have to deal with “radical Islam” (that is a tautology – Islam is the very definition of radicalism). 🙁
I would like to believe that Hinduism and India do not ever need to kill/rape/loot/plunder non-Hindus and non-Indians. The meaning of India will be lost.
@SDC
Namaste Brother,
There is nothing wrong with debating. But Hindu Militant was praising the caste system and depicted vulgar comments regarding women, which we strictly oppose as Vedic followers. Such comments should not be tolerated. Otherwise Hindu Militant was doing a great job by arguing with fanatic muslims. It is true if these fanatic muslims stoop so low that they start abusing us or our dharma, it will be difficult for us to be nice to them, but there are limits, such as we should never abuse womenhood or praise some silly caste system. Remember woman, be it hindu, muslim, sikh, or christian, in all perspective we should see her as an akin to our mother. Had everyone followed this methodology, the world would have been a better place today.
Instead we should shower our rage and anger on criminals and sinners.
@Arya:
Arguments has to be taken seriously/non-seriously depending on the reason and rationale it carries and not on who is saying.
Sometimes even a graduate student can defeat a post-graduate student in a debate. That doesnt mean the undergraduate student is not rewarded just based on the fact that he is less qualified. Before you giving some meaning to the above sentence, I can predict what you will say and I will only say you need some guidance in understanding the philosophy of human life. Try to read some internationaly acclaimed writers like…’Wilky collins’
1.Oh I thot u r talking about religions, thats why I told Islam is the fastest growing religion. Sinners in non-Islamic faiths are also growing towards vices and thats why sins too are increasing.
2. Zakir is trying to be time coz Zakir has Quran which is ahead of time.
3. The first part of the question is for you to answer. Regarding the second part if this is foolishness then why the ranks of fools has always been increasing unlike arya samaj / brahmo samaj / ram krishna mission etall, which has been established since more than a century but seems cannot gather enough followers, and just gathering dust, not able to impress the masses properly even in the country of their birth.
4. I have read the articles.
5. Those who agree with Quran, be he shankaracharya or anyone…is worth preaching. Funda is very simple!! One God…one book…one prophet….one humanity…one nation….one life….one death…..one day of judgement……thats it. You wanna achieve salvation follow the book of God otherwise enter your death at your own risk. No need to follow shankaracharya or anyone coz you have to follow Quran. As long as somebodys opinion match with Quran follow it otherwise reject it. Simple!! Not like the complex theories of aatma , parmatma , karma , aum , punarjanm , trinity etall. Its all baseless and the more you try to understand them the more you get entangled. God will never reveal such complicate theories to achieve salvation when salvation is the basic right of all men be it an intellectual or be he a layman. I cant say complex theory but illogical theories.
6. Ok will check and let you know.
7. OK got it. I just got engaged in the war of words on this link, otherwise I find Satyagnis writings entirely biased , prejudiced and hate revealing against non-vedic religions and his way of over glorifying vedas can be easily noticed in his writings.
8. Whats the proof that they remained non-muslims?
9. Ofcourse I too agree that all abrahamic and vedic religions are discarded in todays age coz they are not only outdated but also corrupted. Today we have to follow the final book which stresses on logic , knowledge and science. Miracles are found in Quran but related to pre-islamic religions. Presence of miracles doesnt prove Quran to be impractical but it only narrates past happenings of the world and at the same time ascertains about the change of age and the importance of education and reason, thats why Prophet pbuh did not show miracles to convince non-muslims but read them Quranic verses and many just embraced Islam by listening those verses, and also the first word of Quranic revealation was ‘READ’ .
10. I wasnt lying. Anyways.
@sshama
Sister, Reason and rationale are directly related to intelligence and not much with the degrees, I guess!
1. Is not disbelief itself a sin as per Islam? Again think what I wrote, belief and disbelief make the whole set of humans complete. So if belief is increasing, disbelief has to come down or vice versa.
2. Dont you have Quran? If yes, why did not you say previously that “Only I will tell, who is right” instead of “Only time will tell, who is right”? You also are time like Zakir Naik then why could you not answer me that time and left it to time?
So you believe that Zakir can judge right and wrong like Allah? People like Anwar Shaikh, Ghulam Jelani Barq etc also had Quran, why dont you follow them. I have also Quran, why dont you believe me?
3. Truth is followed and practiced the least, should we start practicing lies then?
4. Sorry to say sister, If you have read then you were lying in your comment- “When was vedas revealed, who brough vedas, which community received vedas, what was the original langauge. What is the criteria to judge whether vedas corrupted or not. No one knows this.”
Anyone who has read the articles on Vedas on this site has the answers to your questions. Please read them again or accept that you lied.
5. Shankaracharya believes that everything is God! Is he worth preaching? Even if he glorified Islam, he lied because he does not actually believe in One God as mentioned in Quran! Your funda is simple, sister. Anyone who glorifies Islam for whatever reasons, invite him, and those who speaks against Islam, kill him!
There is nothing complex in Aatma, Parmaatma etc, if you want to know it, please let me know, I will cover it up for you in ten lines! Do you know that in Vedic theory, salvation will be achieved by everyone earlier or later as per his/her deeds, but in yours, its all over in one life and this very right of getting salvation for most of the people is snatched away by throwing them in eternal hellfire. Sorry to say that some hadith say that most of the hell dwellers are women. What a tragedy, less intelligence here and hell for hereafter for most of them.
6. OK.
7. Dear sister, this is not the case. If you would have read Quran and hadith, you would know, what does hatred and prejudice means. We hate those ideologies which teach its followers to hate others. Thats it.
8. I meant whole scientific community, who witnessed this miracle.
9. Sister, what will you do if I show that Muhammad also performed miracles? Will you accept Quran also outdated then?
10. Sorry for harsh comment sister. I apologize if I hurt you.
@Sshama
namaste sister,
1)
I am sorry to say sister, but the greatest number of growing sinners are in islam. Why are the majority of terrorists muslims??? Osama, Al Qaeda, Lashkar??? Why did the Moghals conquer India, is it nice that you walk into someone’s property and take over, what kind of pious deed is that??? Perhaps its pious in islam.
2)
Yes, Zakir is ahead of the time because he wants to give birth to a breed of terrorists, besides many terrorists claim zakir to be their master/mentor. A terrorist like Naik who openly admits that apostates should be killed, what more can be expected from him??? Have you forget the maldivian case, where a muslim by the name of mohammad bashed Naik and renounced islam, then all of Naik’s fanatic fans claimed to kill the malvidian person.
3)
Sister, did you know that a great number of your religious heads (maulanas) reverted to Vedic Dharma after debating Arya Samaj scholars????? Can you name even a few Arya Samaj Pandits that converted to islam???
4)
Sister, please read all the articles on Vedas.
Sister, can you provide any proof that the earlier revelations have been corrupted??? In order to arrive to the conclusion that something is corrupted, we must see the original and the present version and note the changes. So Quran states, it was sent because all earlier revelations were corrupted. Wow, thats like saying the cell phone manufacturer sends you an updated copy of the owner’s manual every month since they are bound to get corrupted. Will you not be upset at the manufacturer? Will you not tell him to directly give you the full and final version of the booklet rather than waiting month by month for a new upgrade? Sorry to say but islam’s concept of revelations make me laugh. By the way, even Quran has been corrupted did you know that??? Shia muslims have their own version of the Quran, why dont you read that??
5)
Vedic theory is the only theory that has answers for everything. What does islam say about animals, why are they animals and not humans??? was it Allah’s wish??? Attaining salvation is simple for anyone,which is to do good deeds, how is that complicated???
6)Please do so.
7)
Satyagni’s articles are not biased. He has simply done what Swami Dayanand has done. Which was to disect every religious scripture and see which one is the most logical one and hence its divine. We would love to even accept islam if it wasnt defective or illogical. But stupid things like sex slaves virgins in paradise, killing apostacy easily made us reject a cult like islam. I suggest you to reject this cult to, the sooner you do, the sooner you will achieve happiness.
8)
Famous Scientists???? Sir Isaac Newton was not muslim. Einstein was not muslim. Galileo was not muslim in fact he was against biblical ideas which are no different from Quran. Bohr did not even convert to islam. Nor did Leibniz or Descarte? Even Kepler did not convert to islam, so which “famous” scientist are you talking about??? On contrary Newton followed the Vedic lifestyle. Newton was never married he remained a bachelor, “brahmacharya”, and donated all his time in attaining wisdom that can help all upcoming students to educate. Even though Newton may not have seen Vedas or read Vedas, but he definitely followed their principles.
9)
Sister, I can even perform miracles, does that mean I am also a prophet? Sister why are you so anxious to go to islamic paradise. If you were a man, then I can understand how disgusting and lustic the man would be, but your a woman?? How will you co exist with 72 virgins, and how would you feel when your husband will be spending time with all those virgins, I suspect you would be standing in a corner weeping as your husband enjoys and Mohammad, Moses, Abraham, and Adam will all be popping up champagne bottles and celebrating.
10)
Sister, the sooner you get out of this illusion, the better. If you really thing islam is the truthful religion, then answer two of my questions:
First, why does islam order you to kill apostates for such a stupid reason of leaving islam.?
Secondly, why is islam contradictory??????
that’s a hilariously brilliant response that would unfortunately be wasted on a half-intelligent creature inside a head rag 😉
@Indian Agnostic
namaste brother,
the funny thing is that she is proud of a religion that considers her intelligence half of that of a man, and where she will get 72 virgins in paradise. If muslim women feel no sympathy for womenhood being used as commodities, what can be expected of men????
It is just sad women defend such disgusting acts.
Arya, Vik and Indian Agnostic Brothers sshama does not know even the spelling of Islam in spite of that she wants to debate with us that only means that she does not believe in Koran’s statement that woman’s are half intelligent just she does not want to accept it in front of we Kafirs this is good sign that woman want to get out of mullahchaap religion.
@kafir786
namaste brother,
well said, its sad she defends a religion that calls her, her mother, and ever female in family half as intellegent. Looks like she wants to join those 72 virgins that is why she doesnt want to go against islam
Vik brother you are very right
@SShama,
Well debated from starting till end sister. I had been keenly following your half intelligence replies better than 3-4 full intelligence male attackers. At the end of the day, I knew this forum comes out with their verdict that “chit bhi meri, pat bhi meri” or rather “Head I win, Tail you loose”……… These people are practising this tactics. Let them congratulate and wish each other (from Satyagni team) for yet another loose.
self defeating post 🙁
he hates praising and ends up praising !
Islamo-logically he is right ..praise the muslim hate the kafir ..apart from that no logic at all ..bummer
When all the Muslim follow one and the same Qur’an then why are there so many sects and different schools of thoughts among Muslims?
WHY ARE MUSLIMS DIVIDED INTO SECTS (DIFFERENT SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT)
1. Muslims should be united
It is a fact that Muslims today, are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers.
The Glorious Qur’an says:
“And hold fast,
All together, by the rope
Which Allah (stretches out for you),
and be not divided among yourselves;”
[Al-Qur’an 3:103]
Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Besides saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’.
Qur’an further says,
“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger”
[Al-Qur’an 4:59]
All the Muslim should follow the Qur’an and authentic Ahadith and be not divided among themselves.
2. It is prohibited to make sects and divisions in Islam
The Glorious Qur’an says:
“As for those who divide
Their religion and break up
Into sects, thou hast
No part in them in the least:
Their affair is with Allah:
He will in the end
Tell them the truth
Of all that they did.”
[Al-Qur’an 6:159]
In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects.
But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?”, the common answer is either ‘I am a Sunni, or ‘I am a Shia’. Some call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki or Humbali. Some say ‘I am a Deobandi’, while some others say ‘I am a Barelvi’.
3. Our Prophet was a Muslim
One may ask such Muslims, “Who was our beloved prophet (pbuh)? Was he a Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Humbali or a Maliki?” No! He was a Muslim, like all the other prophets and messengers of Allah before him.
It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim.
Further, in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (pbuh) was not a Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim.
4. Qur’an says call yourselves Muslim
a. If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say “I am a MUSLIM, not a Hanafi or a Shafi”. Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33 says:
“Who is better in speech
Than one who calls (men)
To Allah, works righteousness,
And says, ‘I am of those
Who bow in Islam (Muslim)?’ ”
[Al-Qur’an 41:33]
The Qur’an says “Say I am of those who bow in Islam”. In other words, say, “I am a Muslim”.
b. The Prophet (pbuh) dictated letters to non-Muslim kings and rulers inviting them to accept Islam. In these letters he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an from Surah Ali Imran chapter 3 verse 64:
Say ye: “Bear witness
That we (at least)
Are Muslims (bowing
To Allah’s Will).”
[Al-Qur’an 3:64]
5. Respect all the Great Scholars of Islam
We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Humbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hardwork. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the views and research of Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi, etc. But when posed a question, ‘who are you?’, the reply should only be ‘I am a Muslim’.
Some may argue by quoting the hadith of our beloved Prophet from Sunan Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579. In this hadith the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My community will be split up into seventy-three sects.”
This hadith reports that the prophet predicted the emergence of seventy-three sects. He did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. The Glorious Qur’an commands us not to create sects. Those who follow the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith, and do not create sects are the people who are on the true path.
According to Tirmidhi Hadith No. 171, the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in Hell fire except one sect.” The companions asked Allah’s messenger which group that would be. Where upon he replied, “It is the one to which I and my companions belong.”
The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, “Obey Allah and obey His Messenger”. A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be.
If only all Muslims read the Qur’an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith, Inshallah most of these differences would be solved and we could be one united Muslim Ummah.
@Abdul
A religion at violence & greed at it’s core cannot bring unity and peace..even if it becomes the dominant religion at any place.
it’s history is mired by killing of muslims by muslims including the prophet himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_BTRdxEJaE
violence only begets violence…bloodshed only invites bloodshed
THINK LOGICAL , RATIONAL AND HUMAN ..leave this mire of killing and greed today
IN INDIA NOBODY CAN FORCE TO CHOSE REGION. THE INDIAN SUPREME COURT GIVEN THIS RIGHT TO PEOPLES OF INDIA . I ACCEPT ISLAM RELIGION IT IS MY CHOICE. I WILL NEVER LEAVE MY RELIGION ISLAM IN MY WHOLE LIFE AND AFTER LIFE. I AM HAPPY BEING A MUSLIM THAN NON-MUSLIM. FIRSTLY AND LASTLY MR AGNOSTIC U R MAD. TOTALLY MAD.
FIRST I READ RAMAYAN AND MAHABHARATA AFTER THAT I READ QURAN WITH TRANSLATION AND I FIND TRUE GOD. NOT LIKE U R FAKE GODS OR HUMAN GOD.
@Abdul
nobody is forcing you to convert..if you are happy with a violent ideology it’s your choice ..this is India ..and you have every right to remain a muslim unlike Islamic ghetto countries where one is killed for leaving islam
and this so so because of the very hindus who form a majority of this country ..whereever their population declines that region becomes a hub of violence and poverty and crime ..so don;t be thankless to the majority ofnthis country that keeps it a secular nation ..because secularism and democracy is inbuilt in hinduism and excluded in Islam
the hindus may have some ignorant practices of worship but they are a beautiful people((or any dharmic followers like Sikhs, Jains, Budhists) ..they are the ones which keep India a tolerant peaceful and accomodating nation
the moment you take dharmic people out of sate ..it bites back at India and tries to cut-off from it’s mother land..kashmir, north east ,kerala , bengal..name any state where dharmic people have reduced and you’d find that it has become a violent insurgent hub.
I can understand your predic ament that you did not read the vedas and you have converted in a hurry ..in your heart you have come to know that you have been fooled by the lies that made you convert.
you can call me mad ..because that is how a violence supporter would call me ..but i wont stop sharing the truth ..you have been told the truth and that too from authentic sources
I pity you that you did not read this stuff yourself ..anyways , you are a fellow human being ..as as long you keep that humanity alive i am always your friend and well wisher…but if your god ordered hatred shines anywhere near other human beings ..you’ll always find me on the other side of the fence ..and probably mad too
peace
@Abdul
Who is forcing you? Forceful religious conversions are gems of your cult, not ours. Read history, especially of India.
hw can u say dat islam has a violent ideology. do u know hw many verses of fighting are there in Mahabharata??????? read about ur scriptures then talk about others.
Brother T Shaikh
Did any of us ever claim that Mahabharat is the final word of God? Anyway can you give even a single Shloka of Mahabharat which gives you instructions to kill, invade, and enslave others just because they dont believe in the ideology you believe? Forget about the holy people, can you show even a single line from Duryodhan, the worst character in Mahabharat, when he says that I will fight Pandavas because they dont believe in my Deen?! Interestingly you will find that Duryodhan was many time better than your holiest man ever born on earth, Muhammad in every sense.
I invite you to the true religion, Vedas.
mr vajra..very good reply..keep it up..
god bless
ABSOLUTELY. I am going to misuse the verses on fighting and killing written in bhagwadgeeta and use it as justification for spreading hindu terror and forcing muslims to accept hinduism. Same like you do to non-muslims. Koran in one hand and sword in another. I fight back, geeta in one hand and trishul in another. Pay you bak in same currency.
absolutely right.hindu militant
.we sud do that geeta in one hand n trishul in other..
Brother you are article is showing which kind of knowledge you have about islam.please read Quran and Hadith to really understand islam
Dear Hameed Bro from IRF
kindly helpo me understand thse divine hadits , once i get the spirituality for the first ten ..i would love to understand the next 10 ..thanks in advance
❶Sahih Bukhari : Wisdom of Islam : Women are Dogs says Aisha
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs
❷Sahih Bukhari : Wisdom of Islam : Cocks are Divine, Donkeys are Devils
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 522:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “When you hear the crowing of cocks, ask for Allah’s Blessings for (their crowing indicates that) they have seen an angel. And when you hear the braying of donkeys, seek Refuge with Allah from Satan for (their braying indicates) that they have seen a Satan.”
❸Sahih Bukhari:Wisdom of Islam: Men are Like Camels and 1 out of 100 is good
Volume 8, Book 76, Number 505:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “People are just like camels, out of one hundred, one can hardly find a single camel suitable to ride.”
❹Sahih Bukhari: Wisdom of Islam: In-Laws are Death itself
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 159:
Narrated ‘Uqba bin ‘Amir:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Beware of entering upon the ladies.” A man from the Ansar said, “Allah’s Apostle! What about Al-Hamu the in-laws of the wife (the brothers of her husband or his nephews etc.)?” The Prophet replied: The in-laws of the wife are death itself.
❺Sahih Bukhari:Wisdom of Islam:Sunnah is nothing but opposite of what jews and christians do
Volume 7, Book 72, Number 786:
Narrated Abu Huraira :
The Prophet said, “Jews and Christians do not dye their hair so you should do the opposite of what they do.
❻Sahih Bukhari:Wisdom of Islam: lick your hands before washing !
Volume 7, Book 65, Number 366:
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
The Prophet said, ‘When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else.”
❼Sahih Bukhari: Wisdom of Islam: Judgment Day counter- women’s buttocks!
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 232:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established till the buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daus move while going round Dhi-al-Khalasa.” Dhi-al-Khalasa was the idol of the Daus tribe which they used to worship in the Pre Islamic Period of ignorance.
❽Sahih Muslim: Wisdom of Islam: Shayari is worse than pus
Book 028, Number 5609:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be opon him) as saying: It is better for a man’s belly to be stuffld with pus which corrodes it than to stuff) one’s mind with frivolous poetry. Abd Bakr has reported it with a slight variation Of wording.
❾Sahih Muslim: Wisdom of Islam: Grow beard to act against polytheists
Book 002, Number 0500:
Ibn Umar said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be opon him) said: Act against the polytheists, trim closely the moustache and grow beard.
❿Sahih Bukhari: Wisdom of Islam: Allah loves sneezing , abhor’s yawning
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 242:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning
please guide me to the only true path of sneezing and that that of yawning 🙂
*correction : please guide me to the true path of sneezing and not that of yawning 🙂
( i hope you don;t have allergy to satire brother)
hamid, its the other way around. we have read all your stuff, its you who didn’t read it yet. Please read it properly.
I will give a challenge.
You prove existence of one God, I will prove existence of a million Gods.
In fact, every human is capable of God like attributes.
No one did.
So there was no God; The only villain is prophet Mohammad.
u say every1 has attributes of God. then can u build a universe of ur own. can u make d sun rise from d opposite side. no u cant. hav shame on ur words. only Allah, d absolute, can do Godly thing.
n u are the biggest villain talking ignorantly. hav u some common sense????????
Hv u read about d beautiful preaching of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him)
u dont have any idea whatsoever about ur future dear.
there is still time. wake up!!
@T sheikh
Ony allah got the power to make sun rise from opposite side?
Well….. I abused allah and prophet mohammed many many times, yur false god, allah couldnt do zilch to me.
@hameed , abe shaane,
We HAVE read the koran and hadith, thats why we are so pissed off on islam. It is a violent cult that preaches to convert the whole world to islam at point of sword. And muslims like fighting and killing.
Secondly, your zakir naik himself is a liar, saying that prophet mohammed died a natural death. ( I was attending the only lecture and he said this)I wanted to object right in that ground where he gave speech. tell that idiotic scholar that mohammed bin abdullah died a very slow and very very painful death, because he was poisoned by a jewess after the battle of khaibar. There is one video on this very page. If he was really a prophet he would have known the meat is poisoned. FALSE prophet and false zakir naik, preaching a false religion.
IS AGNIVEER IS A HINDU SCHOOLAR OR JUST MAD MAN DOESN’T KNOW ABOUT ANY RELIGION JUST CRITICISING OTHER RELIGIONS.
ALL RELIGION SAYS ONE GOD.
SO DONT CRITICISE ANY RELIGION.
RESPECT EVERY RELIGON MAN.
EVERY RELIGION TALK ABOUT PEACE.
@JOHN
who told you that every religion talks about peace?
watch this
http://www.youtube.com/v/Ib9rofXQl6w
are you one of those whom the video talks about?
I AGREE WITH U SAA WHT U SAID
THAT GOD IS ONE.
But what type of God, dear?
That is the issue.
@abdul
Who said god is one? I consider myself as supergod. What you gonna do?
Quran contains Foreign language words… i.e . Non Arabic words.. Is allah deficient in vocubalary
check the video from 11.44 onwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3GS5mR-lMU&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-1-HM
pathetic response here at 13:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbTrZlCxu5g
Salam to my brothers,
Bros I will request u not waste ur time in such use less sites as these guys have opened the site not to explain their religion but to earn money by these site for example if u go through the joining process u will find that these guy are beging for money in the name of fund so bro pls waste ur and money.
so y ur wasting ur time
just get loss from here
mind ur tongue. is dat what ur religion teaches u????????
Dear brother Aditya Jaiswal,
I request you not to get angry becoz it takes away vivek (capacity to differentiate between right and wrong). In the absence of vivek, we may astray from the right path. Moreover, even a logical and well wishing suggestion may not have the desired impact on the listeners and it may create a vicious chain reaction of angers. I request everybody to abstain from the words such as stupid, illogical and similar harsh words. We can debate without these words with the strength of wisdom, understanding and knowledge.
OM Shantih.
Sumum,Bukmun Umyun fahum laa yarji’oon
They are deaf,dumb,blind who don’t return to right path. Surah Bakarah Ch.2 V.18
Why the Child is Black
Bukhari:Volume 8, Book 82, Number 830:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A bedouin came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “My wife has delivered a black child.” The Prophet said to him, “Have you camels?” He replied, “Yes.” The Prophet said, “What color are they?” He replied, “They are red.” The Prophet further asked, “Are any of them gray in color?” He replied, “Yes.” The Prophet asked him, “Whence did that grayness come?” He said, “I thing it descended from the camel’s ancestors.” Then the Prophet said (to him), “Therefore, this child of yours has most probably inherited the color from his ancestors.”
ASSALAMO ALAIKUM………… may Allah’s peace b upon u alll