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UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

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[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

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Sikhism and Vedas

Sanjeev Newar
By Sanjeev Newar
Sikhism and Vedas
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

Sikhism represents a tradition that every Indian is proud of. The Sikh Gurus have inspired us in an era that was perhaps the most challenging phase of our history. One cannot forget the contributions of Sikh Gurus and their selfless sacrifices to consolidate the society, to provide them direction and overthrow the rule of invaders. That is why the Sikh Gurus are revered not only by Sikhs but all nationalists in general as role models.

The medieval era represents the darkest phase of our society. Internally, we were being eroded by termites of casteism, gender discrimination and overt ritualism dissociated from Vedas, and externally, we were being butchered by a tribe of the most uncivilized society of West Asia – read the Ghaznis, Khiljis, Mughals, Slaves, Tughlaqs, etc.

The Sikh gurus, in these turbulent times, lit the lamp of Vedic wisdom and steered the society towards the fundamental tenets of our culture – rationalism, actions, and compassion.

Often there is a dispute over whether Sikhism is part of Hinduism or a separate religion. In our view, this is a meaningless debate because the word Hinduism has different connotations. From a western mindset, Hinduism represents a mix of very specific rituals associated with casteism, gender discrimination, and idol worship. If this is Hinduism, then Sikhs are definitely not Hindus.

However, if Hinduism is considered to mean the culture that is inspired by the philosophy of Vedas, then perhaps not many sects are more Hindu than Sikhs. Sikhism represents the message of Vedas in simple language of a layman.

Sikhism – Representation of Vedic wisdom

Let us see what makes Sikhism an extremely pure representation of Vedic wisdom (We shall ignore later day aberrations and focus on the key message of the great Gurus):

• Sikhism rejects birth-based casteism and believes in equality of all.

• Sikhism believes in gender equality.

• Sikhism believes in the protection of cows because it is one of the most useful gifts of God to humans.

• Sikhism believes in actions as means to achieve God. They reject a withdrawal from life.

• Sikhism believes in one single timeless shapeless omnipresent God whose best name is Onkaar (Om + Kaar). This is almost verbatim translation of Yajurveda 40.8.

• Sikhism believes in the theory of Karma and rebirth.

• Sikhism refuses the concept of Heaven/ Hell and believes in salvation as the ultimate goal.

• Sikhism believes in Nama Smaran or understanding the names and properties of God as a way to achieve Him.

• Sikhism considers Maya or ignorance as an obstacle to salvation and urges to eradicate it through devotion, noble actions, and knowledge.

• Sikhism takes it as our utmost duty to fight against the injustice of any kind. The lives of Sikh gurus exemplify this.

• Sikhism considers entire humanity as one family and refuses to have different treatments for people of different beliefs and religions.

The list can continue further. Note that if we replace Sikhism in above lines with ‘Vedic Dharma,’ we would realize that the points still hold valid.

Vedas in Sikh texts

Let’s know what Sikh texts say about Vedas.

• God created Vedas. (Onkaar ved nirmaye- Rag Ramkali Mahla 1 Onkar Shabd 1) Further, the Guru Granth Sahib very clearly elucidates on the glory of Vedas.

• With an order of God, Vedas were created so that humans can decide what is a virtue and what is a sin. (Hari aagya hoye Ved paap punya vichaariya- Maru Dakhne Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

• No one can value the importance of Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda. (Sam Ved, Rig, Yajur, Atharvan brahme mukh maaiya hai traigun, taakee keemat kah na sakai ko….- Marusolahe Mahla 1 Shabd 17)

• God created a day, night, forests, greenery, water and four Vedas that are like four treasures. (Chaar Ved chaare khaani- Rag Maru Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

• How can glory of Vedas be stated whose knowledge is without end? (Ved vakhaan kahahi ik kahiye, oh ve ant ant kin lahiye- Vasant Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.3)

• Of the infinite texts, Vedas are the best. (Asankh granth mukhi Ved paath- Japuji 17)

• All the Shastras, Vedas, and ancient texts describe the Supreme Lord. (Smriti sastra Ved puraan paar brahm ka karahi vakhiyaan- Gaund Mahla 5 Shabd 17)

• Noble persons elucidate the glory of Vedas, but unfortunate people do not understand. (Ved bakhiyaan karat saadhujan bhaagheen samjhat nahi khalu- Todi Mahla 5 Shabd 26)

• Study of Vedas enhances knowledge by blessings of God. (Kahant Veda gunant guniya…- Sahaskriti Mahla 5.14)

• Analysis of Vedas, Shastras, and ancient texts enriches the entire family and makes them lucky. (Ved puran saasatr vichaaram…. badbhaagi Naanak ko taaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20)

• Vedas describe the glory of one God. (Kal mein ek naam kripaanidhi … ih vidhi Ved bataavai- Rag Sortha Mahla 9 Shabd 5)

• Do not say that Vedas are false. False are those people who do not analyze. (Ved katev kahahu mat jhoothe jhootha jo na vichaare- Rag Prabhati Kabirji Shabd 3)

• Those who studied Vedas were called Vedis. They initiated noble virtuous acts. Listening to Rigveda, Samveda, Yajurveda and Atharveda destroyed all sins. (Jinai Ved padhyo suvedi kahaaye… Padhe Sam Vedam Yajur Ved Kattham Rigam Ved paathayam kare bhaav hattham… Atharav Ved pathayam suniyo paap nathiyam…- Dasham Guru Granth Sahib Vichitra Natak Adhyaya 4)

Glory of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib

To check more examples of glory of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib readers can refer following:

• Chauth upaaye chaare Veda- Rag Bilawal Mahla 1 Thiti

• Chache chaar Ved jin saaje chaare khani chaar juga- Rag Asa Mahla 1 Pati Likhi Shabd 9

• Oordh mool jis saakh talaaha chaar Ved jit laage- Gujri Ashtapadiyan Mahla 1.1

• Chare Ved hoye sachiyaar- Asadi Var Mahla 1 Var 13

• Chaturved mukh vachni uchre- Rag Gaudi Mahla 5 Shabd 164

• Chaturved pooran hari naai Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 17

• Chaar pukaarahi na tu maane Ramkali Mahla 5 Shabd 12

• Chaar Ved jihwa bhane- Rag Sarang Mahla 5 Shabd 131

• Brahme ditte Ved Rag Malar Var Mahla 2 Var 3

• Chaare Ved Brahme kau diye padh padh kare vichari- Rag Asa Mahla 3 Shabd 22

• Chaare Ved Brahme np furmaayia- Maaru Solahe 3.22

• Chaare deeve chahu hath diye eka eki vaari- Vasant Hindol 1.1

• Vedu pukaare vaachiye vaani brahm biaas- Shreeraag Ashtpadiyan 1.7

• Vedan ganh bole sach koi- Maajh Vaar Mahla 1 Vaar 12

• Deeva jale andhera jaai Ved paath mati paapan khaai- Raag Suhi

• Ved pukaarai punn paap surag narak ka veeu- Raag Saarang Vaar 1.16

• Gurumukhi parche Ved vichari- Raag Ramkali Sidh Gosht Shabd 28

• Puchhahu Ved pandatiyaan muthi vin maane- Rag Maaru Ashtpadiyan 1.6

• Man hath kine na paaiyo puchhahu Vedaam jaai- Shri Raag Vaar 3.10

• Smriti saasat Ved vakhaanai bharmai bhoola tat na jaanai- Rag Maajh Ashtpadiyan 3.18

• Veda mahi naam uttam so- Rag Ramkali Mahla 3 Aanand 19

• Hari jeeu ahankaar n bhaavai Ved kook sunaavahi- Rag Maaru 3.9

• Jugi jugi aapo aapna dharm hai sodh dekhahu Ved puraan- Rag Vilaaval 3.4

• Saasat Ved puraan pukaarahi dharam karahu shat karam dradaiya- Vilaaval Mahla 4.2

• Naanak vichaarahi sant jan chaar Ved kahande- Rag Gaudi Vaar 4.12

• Vaani brahm Ved dharam dradahu paap tajaaiya bal raam jeeu- Suhi Chhant 4.2

• Das ath chaar Ved sabh poochhahu jan naanak naam chhudaai jeeu- Maaru 4.8

• Smrat saasat Ved vakhaane jog gyaansidh sukh jaane- Rag Gaudi 5.111

• Ved puraan smrat bhane- Gaudi 5.144

• Saasat smrat Ved vichaare mahaapurushan iu kahiya- Rag Gaudi 5.162

• Ved saasat jan pukaarahi sunai nahi dora- Rag Aasa 5.152

• Saasat Ved smriti sabhi….- Gujri 5.2

• Chaar pukaarahi na tu maanahi- Ramkali 5.12

• Kahant Veda gunant guniya- Salok sahaskriti Mahla 5.14

• Ved puraan saasatr vichaaram- Gatha Mahla 5.20

• Ved puraan saadh sang- Rag Gaudi 9.6

• Ved puraan padhai ko ih gun simre hari ko naama- Rag Gaudi 9.7

• Ved puraan jaas gun gaavat taako naam hiye mein dhar re- Gaudi 9.9

• Ved puraan smriti ke mat sun nimash na hiye vasaavai- Rag Sorath 9.7

Condemnation of Vedas in Guru Granth Sahib

Guru Granth Sahib also consists of several verses that appear to be a condemnation of Vedas. These are often cited to prove that Sikhism is a separate cult.

However, this is a very childish argument. How can Guru Granth Sahib condemn Vedas when it also praises it to an extent that it calls Vedas divine and that those who do not appreciate Vedas as foolish?

In reality, the condemnation of Vedas relates to those people who only mug up Vedas but do not live their lives accordingly. Alternatively, those people who distort the message of Vedas by claiming to have expertise. The likes of Western Indologists and communist historians who see beef and wine in Vedas perfectly exemplify the target of this condemnation.

Moreover, why Guru Granth Sahib, Vedas themselves condemn such hypocrites.

Rigveda 1.164.39 very clearly announces –

“What can the Richas of Vedas do for a person who does not possess intellect.”

Upanishads and Geeta also condemn a person who claims expertise in Vedas but does not preach.

If one reviews the Guru Granth Sahib dictionary by renowned Sikh scholar Tara Singhji, he will find a striking similarity between what he wrote on Vedas and what was written by Swami Dayanand. Not many know that Tara Singhji, considered to be father figure of modern Sikh movement, was a founder of Vishwa Hindu Parishad!

Conclusion

We see that Sikhism represents the essence of Vedic wisdom in simple language of common man and rejects all those external features that are wrongly associated with Hinduism.

Our humble reverence to the great Sikh Gurus, who saved the society by lighting the lamp of Vedic wisdom when there was utter darkness.

Let’s now work to carry forward their noble legacy by living by this wisdom and bringing transformation in self, society and world through service, devotion, and actions.

(For a thorough treatment of this subject, we strongly recommend the book “Arya Siddhant aur Sikh Guru” by Swami Swatantranand, a legendary freedom fighter, leader of Hyderabad Satyagrah movement and established Vedic scholar.)

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Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

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Sanjeev Newar
Sanjeev Newarhttps://sanjeevnewar.com
Sanjeev Newar is an eminent data scientist, entrepreneur, best-selling author, and speaker with expertise in Vedas and Sanskrit. He is an alumnus of IIT Guwahati and IIM Calcutta. He quit the corporate world to work for social inclusion and the protection of the vulnerable. For his work on Dalit inclusion and empowerment, he received the Neelkantha Award in 2019. He founded the Sewa Nyaya Utthan Foundation to make quality education accessible to vulnerable groups and marginalised communities.

592 COMMENTS

  1. Agniveer can you explain following meaning, as article may have error:
    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart34.htm
    “Asankh pooja asankh tap taayu. Asankh granth mukhi ved paath. Asankh Yog manni rahahi udaas: Countless are meditations, countless are loves. Countless are worship services, countless are austere disciplines. Countless are scriptures and recitations of the Vedas. Countless are Yogis, whose minds remain detached from the world (sggs 3).
    “

  4. Well There are 2 Sikhs. Tat Khalsa (Mlechcha Sikhs) inspired by British and Sanatan Singh Khalsa (Namdhari, Radosaomi, Ravidassia, etc.). The mainstream sikh (Tat Khalsa), lol, fans a book just like a Puranic fanning an idol. Man it is a as same as idolatry. To know more about Singh Sabhas, read the link http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/introduction.html.
    Here I post a few points.
    START OF EXCERPT
    The Sanatan Sikhs regard Classical Sikhism – which arose from the Sanatan Dharma and Vedic culture – to be a denomination of Sanatan Dharma. In the early days of Sikh history, the Gurudwaras were managed by Mahants (caretakers). Frescos of Hindu deities, murtis of Hindu deities as well as images of Sikh gurus formed part of the sanctum. When Punjab fell under the British rule, hordes of missionaries moved in to harvest the lost souls in the name of Jesus. A Sikh religious administrative body, Sanatan Sikh Sabha was established in 1873 by Sikhs in Amritsar to counter the rising influence of, and conversion to Christianity.
    A murti or a book is an inanimate object. Even an illiterate can bow before a mere book. It doesn’t give him any knowledge. I do not know Punjabi. If I bow before a book written in Gurmukhi (the Adi Granth, Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth), I will never get the knowledge. So don’t be stupid. The whole world knows, that Sikhism is ridden with caste inequalities. The Khatris, Aroras, Kuhrains, form the high caste Sikhs. They will never mingle with other Sikhs. Then comes Jatt Sikhs. They ask for Khalistan, but they were wipped in their butt. So in India, the fools keep mum. Then comes thee Mazhabhis (Dalit Sikhs). Just like Hindu dalits (having own Temples and gods), they have their own Gurudwaras and are shunned by the above mentioned two Sikhs.
    END OF EXCERPT
    If caste system or Varna system is No No in Sikhism then why did Guru Gobind Sing in Dasam Granth mentioned the following lines (Page 1137).
    चली पाप की जगत कहानी ॥ भाजा धरम छाड रजधानी ॥ भिंन भिंन घर घर मत चला ॥ या ते धरम…

    • Brother RSS was not involved in operation blue star it was Congress government,please do not involve RSS in that.We are follower of Guru Gobind Singh and not sure why you have so much hatrate for RSS.Sikhs are our brother only.Blame GANDHI family and not RSS.

  6. SGGS Page 747, Line 18 – One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they alone will not bring liberation.
    Page 148 – ਵੇਦ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥ – The Vedas speak and expound on the Lord, but they do not know His limits.
    Page 355 – ਅਸਟ ਦਸੀ ਚਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ – The eighteen Puraanas and the four Vedas do not know His mystery.
    Page 1237 – ਨਵ ਛਿਅ ਖਟ ਕਾ ਕਰੇ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਿਸਿ ਦਿਨ ਉਚਰੈ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤੋਹਿ ॥ – You may study the nine grammars, the six Shaastras and the six divisions of the Vedas. You may recite the Mahaabhaarata. Even these cannot find the limits of the Lord.

    • Aad Guru Granth Sahib – page 637
      — “ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਗਉ ਕਿਆ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪਾਹਣੁ ਨੀਰਿ ਪਖਾਲੀਐ ਭਾਈ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਬੂਡਹਿ ਤੇਹਿ ॥
      O brother, you worship gods and goddesses. What can you ask of them and what can they give to you? O brother, the stones/idols you wash with water sink in water (in other words how could these stones help you cross the ocean of worldly temptations)”

      • If you think Vedic people or the Vedas support idol worship, you know nothing about the Vedas. Many here are Vedic people and we do not worship idols or support idol worship. So you are preaching to the choir here.

    • As mentioned before Vedic people agree with the verses you mentioned above. Believe God is beyond the Vedas, SGGS, and any other book. No book and we mean no book can fully explain God, because God is beyond all that texts. Those text can only lead us to God. Those text can only point us in the right direction, but we as people can only know God through meditation. A book is just a book my friend. Doesn’t matter if it is the Vedas or SGGS. Those books can only point us to God, but they don’t know God. God is so beyond any book.

  7. Agniveer,
    Sikhs can refer to God by any name, Ram, Krishna, Vasudev, Hari, Guru Nanak Dev ji gave Waheguru/Vaheguru word to humanity. The word waheguru represents different yugs, 4 words representing different words.
    Regarding OnKar you can call it but word best name/word is “Waheguru” not OnKar. You can meditate on any name. There are different names used in Gurbani to refer God, RAM, ALLAH, HAR and others.
    Guru Nanak Dev ji added Ek(One) before work On Kar that God is one as there were many pandits and muslims who wanted people to pray to their GOD(s). God is one you can meditate on any name.
    All came and comes from GOD, every creature and knowledge. So Ved and other scriptures came from GOD. Yes Ved’s are referred in different places in SGGS, but all (Veds, SGGS, Bible, Quran) came from One Supreme Lord. You can say different shades/colors of same God, no distinction, you can see different religions, different views and flavours. Even waters of two rivers who merge to same sea/ocean do not have same taste before merging but they become one with ocean after merging, same goes to human.
    @KRISHNARAO
    Prophets came in different times in different places to server the humanity and take them out of sinking well of MAYA. They are sent by God to direct the human being.
    You or others can argue with me that there prophets or Godman are not required, but there were different prophets who came to save the humanity. Veds came from prophets, you can call them GOD but this I add a code from above “Sikhism believes in one single timeless shapeless omnipresent God”. Everybody who came to life is bound to die, but GOD is not. Adding to quote above “Truth, Without Fear, Beyond Birth and Death”.
    Yes, I agree with you that you need to devote your self to GOD but that does not mean you leave your work. Everybody has the potential but they need to eliminate Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger. How can one meditate peacefully, thinking about GOD when he/she is not attached to Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger.
    I do not have any bad thoughts/anger about you or any person trying to defame or trying to make one superior to other, but understand all came from ONE, the process can be anything that only GOD knows.
    Lets focus our mind on GOD and not on who is best, it is not going to take us anywhere.

    • Namaste Jasvinder,
      You made a couple of accusations that I did not state:
      “You or others can argue with me that there prophets or Godman are not required, but there were different prophets who came to save the humanity.”
      – Can you quote to me where I made this comment. Or even insinuated it. Please copy the quote and paste it because I don’t see where I wrote anything like this on here. If you look at my writings you see I said,
      “Vedas does not support prophet or prophethood. Vedas even consider that a form of prejudice. Vedas are clear that anyone can be enlightened by God by just meditating on God. No one person is more special than anyone else. Everyone has the potential to achieve this. They just have to give themselves to God and meditate on him. That is all. Even having prophets, godmen, son of god, holy ghosts, superman, x-men, or any other nonsense will not get you to God. Using them are all forms of idol worship. Vedas support the individual human to become incredible. They don’t need some superhuman, prophet, godman, superman, x-man, or any of that garbage. JUST NEED GOD ONLY.”
      – When you read through this it clearly states VEDAS DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY PROPHET ANYWHERE. Not just some other person’s prophets, but all prophets anywhere. Vedas consider all of it nonsense. Vedas do not support the concept of prophets. Vedas do not put one person over another including some so called prophet. Because that is a form of idol worship as well. Vedas believe in the individual from anywhere and we all have the ability to connect with God on our own. We don’t need a prophet or a prophet’s help for it. We can do it ourselves.
      You also said this: “Everybody who came to life is bound to die, but GOD is not.”
      – I never said otherwise. Accusations again.
      You also said this: “that does not mean you leave your work.”
      – I never said you leave work either. Accusation again.
      “Everybody has the potential but they need to eliminate Ego, Attachment, Lust, Greed and Anger.”
      – I never even addressed this, so not sure where you are coming from on this. I heard a Vedic scholar say to eliminate Ego is impossible because that is the nature of humanity, but you can manage Ego. And the Veda make it clear to manage your ego so you can connect directly with God.

  8. Jasvinder, Lord Krishna, advises to work without attachements:
    http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter3.html
    “Therefore, always perform your duty efficiently
    and without attachment to the results,
    because by doing work without attachment one attains the Supreme.
    King Janaka and others attained perfection
    by Karma-yoga alone.
    You should perform your duty with a view to guide people
    and for the universal welfare (of the society).
    ”
    Lord Krishna also says God resides in hearts of ALL beings, so we accept all human beings, our functions in life are different dependent on our education and training, but each functin has dignity of labour, as show in Agniveers other articles.
    So e..g. we respect function of lowest paid-cleaner, as that is what Sanatan dharma treaches us.
    Sanatan Dharma is a pluralistic faith in that it accepts different paths to the one supreme God.

  9. As a Sikh I want to clear up a misunderstanding many, many Indians have about Dharma. Dharma is any method devised and used to rid onself of Maya/illusion for the purposes of observing true reality.
    Sikhism is a Dharma
    Jainism is a Dharma
    Buddhism is a Dharma
    All Yoga/tantra systems are Dharmas
    All Upanishads are Dharmas
    Veda is not a Dharma.
    Veda means knowledge. The Vedas are a collection of observations that the Rishi made after they had gotten rid of Maya. We don’t know what Dharma they used that is why as Arya we keep trying to reach that stage so that the Vedas can be understandable. When that happens it will be the Satya Yuga, the age of Truth. The Sikh Gurus disliked people who could recite the Vedas but not have any understanding or inclination in practicing a Dharma to percieve what the Vedas mean. They similarly disliked Siddis/yogis/tantrists who practiced body control alone without contemplation or inclination to practice Dharma.
    To practice and live a truthful life is seen as the highest ideal in Sikhism because that is what Dharma is–Truth, the practice of Truth and only truth, the intent and desire to observe and practice only truth. People should not mix this up with the Vedas. The Vedas are only going to be inteligable to those who have mastered Dharma.
    Sikhs are not against Hindus, all true Indians are Sikhs(students of Dharma) its just that a large group of people have become obsessed with simply reciting Knowledge that they cannot understand or wish to understand. Similarly alot of people practice Yoga/Siddis/Tantra with the aim of merely mastering bodily functions. We have to wake up and practice real Dharma or we will be stuck in the Kali yuga for a long time.
    Concerning the difference between Dharma and religion.
    God = Truth Truth = God, that is the basic concept of God in all Indian Dharmas. Indians don’t have Rreligions, to really understand Indian Dharmas let me offer a relative example–Quantum physics is a Dharma.
    Non Indian people have religions, a religion is when one or more entities enforce laws on people and enforce them by some form of punishment if not followed. As an example–the united states constitution is a religion.

    • Mr. Sikh,
      Thank you for your message. I will also add it isn’t Dharma just to memorize any book, and that includes the SGGS. Or anyone who must memorizes the words of the Sikh Gurus. Or anyone who just memorizes the Jain text or the buddhist text. I will actually disagree with you when you say All Upanishads are Dharmas. Upanishads are also just books or words. They are also experience of individuals. As is SGGS the recording of the experience of individuals. No book anywhere is Dharma by itself. Those text can only point you towards Dharma. But the books themselves are just that, books.

    • Namaste
      It is extremely unfortunate that views of Satyarth Prakash are interpreted in extremely distorted form by many. First of all Swami Dayanand makes it very clear that intentions of Guru Nanak was very noble. Second, Swami Dayanand’s criticism is at an intellectual level and not personal. This is just like refutations and evaluations that happen in scientific journals. Einstein debunked Bohr’s theory and gave valid reasons. Bohr debunked Einstein’s and gave valid reasons. This is way of the scientists. It is less competent people who take all this as a condemnation.
      Whatever Swami Dayanand wrote about Guru Nanak is right from perspective of an unmatched Vedic scholar. Problem happens when we start assuming these views as absolute truths regardless of our own level. Thus I may be weak in English and a Dickens has every reason to question my language. But if a 3 year old toddler who barely can remember the alphabets states the same view because he heard Dickens questioning my English, that would at best be a joke to publish on Facebook.
      Now coming to some of the questions of why did Guru Nanak not promote Sanskrit or Vedas, answer is simple. Vedas were not at all available for common masses to even glance at in that era, forget about studying the same. Unless you belong to some very specific sub-castes of Brahmins, you would be kicked out of any gurukul teaching even mugging of Vedas. Go to Varanasi even today, and rarely can even an ordinary Brahmin get admission in such Vedic gurukuls. They have even high caste and low caste Brahmins!
      And yes, it is a bitter but true fact that whatever was being propagated in Sanskrit in those eras was either casteist anti-woman superstitious literature or porn works of likes of Kalidas et al. So what Guru Nanak did in that era was to best of his capabilities and constraints in that era.
      Swami Dayanand is also right that had Guru Nanak got an opportunity to study Vedas, he would have strengthened Vedic Dharma directly. But this is also true that it took several more centuries of butcherings and rapes, then British Rule, then influx of slightly more liberal social norms, better technology to provide opportunity to Swami Dayanand to study Vedas and present them in the form we know today. Even Swami Dayanand had to put unusual hardships to procure Vedas as foolish casteists would prefer to keep them hidden from world or even their own intellect. So tough was it for Swami Dayanand to get access to Vedic wisdom that he had once even contemplated suicide. Thankfully that was the last time he ever thought negative, and hence you and me are in a position to enlighten the world with Vedic wisdom.
      I ask a simple question. Why don’t you write your posts, comments and articles in Vedic Sanskrit? Why don’t even Sanskrit scholars of today write in Sanskrit of Vedas. Even their Sanskrit starts only from Ashtadhyayi era which is hardly 2000 years old. Reason is simple – there is no easy access to mastery of Vedic Sanskrit today, even in this era of digitization. And to expect someone to master it 600 years ago would only be naive. Further to condemn a great personality for doing whatever he could best do given the times, situations and constraints, would be even more criminal.
      On contrary, people like me are amazed at views of Sikh Gurus, who followed their conscience – inner voice – and worked for implementation of Vedas in practice. By studying their lives, one realizes why Yajurveda says that Vedas lie within each of us.
      This does not mean that we should not study Vedas. Indeed we should do to speed up the process. We should surely study works of ex-scientists to be masters of Physics even though we can ourselves deduce everything. But to condemn a Galileo because he did not use Einstein’s relativistic adjustments in his calculations would be heights of immaturity.
      I don’t know what decision you want to make. But if you really want to understand what you intend to condemn, do a small experiment. Throw away all books you have. Simply get Kaumudi grammar book and show how much Vedas you can master. You are not allowed to purchase any printed text, discuss on internet, search online, or take help of any non-casteist Vedic scholar etc. These conditions would still be hundred times easier than in era of Nanak. And you have already studied Satyarth Prakash, I presume. But let us see where you progress in 6 months, and we can discuss it at that point.
      Dhanyavad

      • i know what he meant but some arya samaji seems to have some hatred for sikhs and they try propgate it through teachings of swami dayanand saraswati this is made many sikhs leaving arya samaj activities which they were following proudly as i know swami dayanand saraswati went to punjab and studied more deeply of the sikh religion and even told sikhs he would change his second edition of sathyarth parkash after getting a deeper understanding of sikhism and seeing the similarity it had with arya samaj views

      • Those who have hates are not Arya Samajists.They may call themselves Arya as a crow sitting on a tree thinks he is higher than anyone.Arya Samaj can criticise anyone for their bad deeds.Nanak was not any God who can’t be wrong at any place.Sikhism is not any God made religion which can’t be wrong at any place.Those who think that they can’t be wrong and considers themselves to be the best are not religious.But those who say that they can be wrong at many places or they may be completely wrong are religious.Because the following is thew rule for religious persons:
        “For accepting the truth and declining the false,one must be ever ready”.

      • Arya Samaj has always respected the Good deeds of Sikha.And it has also said that Sikhs converted muslims into Hindus in the old time.But bowing to some scripture is a from of idolatory.At least the real Arya samajists do not bow down to any book.But yes it considers Vedas as the book of God but do not bow down in front of it.Arya Samaj can also have mistakes at many places.That’s why it failed in its mission.Every human has his inbuilt mistakes.

      • Arya Samaj has always respected the Good deeds of Sikha.And it has also said that Sikhs converted muslims into Hindus in the old time.But bowing to some scripture is a from of idolatory.At least the real Arya samajists do not bow down to any book.But yes it considers Vedas as the book of God but do not bow down in front of it.Arya Samaj can also have mistakes at many places.That’s why it failed in its mission.Every human has his inbuilt mistakes.Swami Dayanand has said if Sikhs had followed Guru Granth Sahib from words to actions then they would have been salvated.

    • Swami Dayanand criticised sikhs because they were the supporters of woman disrespect.Swami Dayanand criticised sikhs because they used to criticise Vedas.But at some places they used to sing the Vedas.Similarly like dogs bark at strangers with no reason and lusts with the bitches.Swami Dayanand criticed each and every cult of the world.His motive was to destroy the cultism and establish the unity.

      • ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HINDUS,SIKHS,MUSLIMS,BUDDHISTS AND SIKHS.RATHER IT WAS THE FIRST ORGANISATION WHO TALKED ABOUT RELIGIOUS UNITY.ARYA SAMAJ CONSIDERS ALL OF THE HUMAN BEINGS WHETHER THEISTS I.E.SIKHS,HINDUS ETC. AND ATHEISTS BOTH TO BE THE SONS OF THE GOD.ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT BELIEVE IN CULTISM.IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE UNAWARE OF ARYA SAMAJ AND ITS ROLE IN INDIA’S FREEDOM MOVEMENT.I THINK YOU ARE FORGETTING THAT WOMAN TADYA CAN TALK TO MAN BECAUSE OF ARYA SAMAJ ONLY.ARYA SAMAJ IS AN ORGANISATION WHO SAYS BRAHMIN IS FROM DEEDS NOT BIRTH.
        ARYA SAMAJ CONVERTED LAKHS OF MUSLIMS INTO HINDUS AND ITS STILL CONVERTING.SIKHS NEAR 1900 COULDN’T ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS OF CHRISTIANS ON INDIA’S FAITH BUT IT WAS ARYA SAMAJ WHO ANSWERED THEM VERY BRAVELY.THERE WERE MANY SIKHS WHO WERE CONVERTED TO MUSLIMS.SIKH SAMAJ WAS NOT INTERESTED IN IT.BUT ARYA SAMAJ CONVERTED BACK THEM TO THEIR ORIGINAL VEDIC DHARM.
        ARYA SAMAJISTS LIKE SWAMI SHRADDHANAND,PANDIT LEKHRAM,GURUDATT VIDYARTHI,SWAMI DARSHANANAD,SWAMI SWATANTRATAANAND,SWAMI SARVADAANAND,MAHATMA HANSRAJ ETC. WERE KILLED DURING THE WAR AGAINST BLIND FAITHS,TERRORISM,BRITISH RULES,SUPERSTITIONS AND IRRATIONALITY.ARYA SAMAJ COULD DO THAT FOR INDIA IN JUST 30 YEARS WHICH ANY OTHER CULT ORGANISATION PRESENT AT THAT TIME COULDN’T DO.
        FREIND “HINDU AGNOSTIC”,IT TAKES TIME TO SEARCH TRUTH ABOUT ARYA SAMAJ.ARYA SAMAJ DOES NOT SAY THAT SOME IS HINDU SOME IS SIKH SOME IS MUSLIM ETC.RATHER IT SAYS WE ALL ARE HUMANS AND WE HAVE EUAL RIGHTS OVER ANYTHING.

      • The most Authentic Biographies of Maharshi Dayanand are as follows:
        (1)By Pandit Lekhram
        (2)By Bhavani Lal Bhartiya
        (3)By Pandit Ganaga Prasad Upadhyay
        And many others.
        But please,reframe your sentence as :
        According to you,which is the most authentic biography of Swami Dayanand Saraswati?
        Please don’t neglect grammer rules as it would be very difficult to understand what you say if you say a wrong sentence.

      • okay thanks because i heard dayanand saraswati did canibis and did miracles but i think this is from unauthentic biographies and would you say a possible biography by vishwa prakash is authentic?

      • I have not read biographies from vishwa prakash but some Arya Samajists say that it is unauthentic.I read Biographies written by Arya Samajists only.Because in other biographies it is said that Dayanand lost in Kashi Debate.But it is known all over the world that Hindu Pandits lost the debate while dayanand won it.You should read the commentary of Mahatma Gandhi on Swami Dayanand.The Gandhi has said that Dayanand like human beings are borne on the earth very rarely and his character is a subject of jealousy for me.The Gandhi has said Dayanand to be the greatest of all social reformers at that time.

      • Actually,biographies are not important for me just the teachings are important.Because biographies are made by ill minded people to defame the hero.The places at which the Nanak criticised the Vedas may be false too.Nanak may have been a great person.But we cannot go into the past and can’t say what he did.Nanak was 500 years before.So,we can’t say the present books about Nanak are completely true.
        I just quote the following from Dayanand’s teachings:
        Take good from everyone and avoid false from everyone.And love everyone.

      • I just read the literature of Swami Dayanand and found that he was right by logic and discovering the truth.This is how I can say Swami Dayanand was great.I criticise Hindus,Jains etc. by reading their books critically.I read Swami Dayanand’s books critically too.If teachings of Jains are bad I say jains are bad.But no one say what the people at that time were.It requires sicnece to peep into the past.We can say anything on the basis of just the present books.But according to Swami Dayanand,we should leave every superstition and blind faith.So, I am leaving those superstitions

      • i see i think canibis and miracles are found in unauthentic biographies i respect swami dayanand saraswati and so did so many other figures but gandhi respect arya samaj but felt arya samaj were making the most tolerant religion on earth into intolerant by criticising other beliefs

      • Gandhi at many places criticised Swami Dayanand and Swami Shraddhanand both.I don’t know what was his intention.And what does he mean by “tolerant religion” and “intolerant religion”,is not known by me.Should we tolerate if some man is cut in front of our eyes?Should we tolerate if your parents are buried alive in front of our eyes?Should we tolerate your wife/husband is is being raped/killed in front of our eyes?

      • i think he is trying to say what most hindus would say that is to respect all beliefs as they are different paths to god gandhi only tried to make peace even if there is something bad in other beliefs he ignored and only looked at the good things in them if there are any hindus throughout history were tolerant to other beliefs which is why india has so many different beliefs today.

      • India has many beliefs,which is the only reason for India’s destruction.Muslims hate Hindus.Hindus Hate Muslims.christians hate Hindus.Muslims hate Christians.And on and on…….
        If India had one religion,one belief,one flag,one way,one food,one God then there would have been a strong unity.But other countries like America,China,Japan are having such type of unity.Either those countries have given up the religion or they have one faith.
        If you want to know how the different beliefs spread in our country then you must read the following book :
        http://agniveer.com/light-of-truth/
        All faiths are not old more than 2500 years.Jains evovled aound 2500 years before.Buddhists evolved aroung 2300 years.Christians evolved around 2000 years.Muslims evolved around 1400 years.Sikhism evolved around 500 years before.And the others faiths are quite young.Was there no faith before 2500 years?Were there not human beings before?There were human beings before 2500 years too.And Vedas are the oldest books found according to the scientists.Hence,before we had only Vedic one religion.Hence,we had a great unity.If want to know what is in the Vedas,just click the following link:
        aryasamajjamnagar.org
        After reading them you will find that Aryas were great in knowledge,science,techniques,prosperity.And long long long……..
        There is too much to be said.

      • your right i have great respect for arya samaj they brought back millions back to hinduism and destroyed manyfrom other beliefs in debates and had a hand in the freedom movement of india

  11. अज्ञानी सिखों द्वारा गुरु गोविन्द सिंह जी के उपदेशों का अपमान
    अभिनेता अजय देवगन की आने वाली फिल्म सन ऑफ़ सरदार (son of sardar) में अजय देवगन को अनेक दृष्यों में अपनी छाती पर भगवान् शिव जी टेटू बना हुआ दिखाया गया हैं जिस पर कुछ अज्ञानी सिखों ने जोकि हिन्दू समाज के विरोधियों के बहकावे में आकर अपने आपको हिंदुयों से अलग दिखाने की कोशिश में लगे रहते हैं नया विवाद खड़ा करने का असफल प्रयास किया हैं। सिखों में 1920 से पहले तो विवाह,दाह संस्कार आदि क्रियाएँ भी हिन्दू समाज की वर्तमान प्रचलित विधियों से ही होती थी। अंग्रेजों ने फुट डालो और राज करो की नीति का पालन करते हुए मैकालिफ़ नामक अंग्रेज ने सिखों का इतिहास लिखा जिसमे उसने सिखों को हिन्दू समाज से पृथक लिखा। 1947 के समय भी सरदार तारा सिंह का भारत और पाकिस्तान से पृथक खालिस्तान नामक अलग देश बनाने का ख़वाब देखा था जिसे जिन्ना के मना करने से उसका यह प्रयास भी असफल हो गया। बाद में सिखों को मुसलमानों ने मार मार कर पाकिस्तान से भगा दिया। हिन्दू समाज गर्व से सिख गुरु और बहादुरों द्वारा हिन्दू समाज की रक्षा के लिए दिए गए अप्रतिम बलिदानों की प्रशंसा करता रहता हैं जबकि कुछ अलगाववादी और शत्रुओं के इन मंसूबो को न समझ कर उनके हाथ में खिलौना बन रहे हैं। इस बार सिखों का कहना हैं की भगवन शिव से सिखों का कुछ भी लेना देना नहीं हैं और यह सिखों को हिन्दू बनाने का प्रयास हैं। गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब सिखों का धर्मग्रन्थ हैं। उसकी एक एक पंक्ति सभी सिखों के लिए ईश वचन के समान हैं। अज्ञानी सिखों को हम बता दे की इसी पवित्र गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में हिन्दू भगवान् ब्रह्मा, विष्णु , शिव का सैकड़ों बार नाम आया हैं।इस लेख में हम भगवान् शिव के गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में प्रमाण देखेगे –
    ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
    ਨ ਡਰੋਂ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋਂ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋਂ ॥
    ਅਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਂ ਆਪਨੇ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਕੌ ਇਹ ਲਾਲਚ ਹਉ ਗੁਨ ਤਉ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥
    ਜਬ ਆਵ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋਂ ॥੨੩੧॥
    देह शिवा बर मोहे ईहे, शुभ कर्मन ते कभुं न टरूं
    न डरौं अरि सौं जब जाय लड़ौं, निश्चय कर अपनी जीत करौं,
    अरु सिख हों आपने ही मन कौ इह लालच हउ गुन तउ उचरों,
    जब आव की अउध निदान बनै अति ही रन मै तब जूझ मरों ॥२३१॥
    Translation: O Lord Shiva grant me the boon, that I may never deviate from doing a good deed.
    That I shall not fear when I go into combat. And with determination I will be victorious.
    That I may teach myself this greed alone, to learn only Thy praises.
    And when the last days of my life come, I may die in the might of the battlefield.
    — Guru Gobind Singh
    Guru Gobind Singh ji says in Chaupai Sahib :
    Kaal pae brahma bap dhara,kal pae shiv ju avtara,kal pae kar bisan prakasa,sakal kal ka kia tamasha
    javan kal jogee shiv keo ,bed raaj brahma jee theo,javan kaal sab lok savara,namaskaar hai tahe hamara
    which means :”Time came when Brahma was created,Time came when Shiva was created,Time came when vishnu was formed,all is play of time
    the lord who created shiva,the lord who created brahma , the source of veda,the lord who created all
    I BOW TO THAT ONE LORD ALONE ”
    God is the creator of all. “He created air, water, fire, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva” (Guru Granth Sahib, 504).
    “He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, who act according to His Will” (Guru Granth Sahib, 948).
    “The performance of countless millions of other devotions is not even equal to one devotion to the Name of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1163).
    “Those who serve Shiva and Brahma cannot find the limits of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 516).
    The ones who serve any other instead of God cannot attain salvation. Salvation is granted only by God.
    “Everyone must serve the One Lord, who created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. O Nanak, the One True Lord is permanent and stable. He does not die, and He is not born” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1130).
    ਆਖਹਿ ਈਸਰ ਆਖਹਿ ਸਿਧ ॥ आखहि ईसर आखहि सिध ॥ Ākẖahi īsar ākẖahi siḏẖ.Shiva speaks, the Siddhas speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਬੁਧ ॥आखहि केते कीते बुध ॥Ākẖahi keṯe kīṯe buḏẖ.The many created Buddhas speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਦਾਨਵ ਆਖਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ आखहि दानव आखहि देव ॥Ākẖahi ḏānav ākẖahi ḏev.The demons speak, the demi-gods speak.
    ਆਖਹਿ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸੇਵ ॥आखहि सुरि नर मुनि जन सेव ॥Ākẖahi sur nar mun jan sev.The spiritual warriors, the heavenly beings, the silent sages, the humble and serviceful speak.
    ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ केते आखहि आखणि पाहि ॥ Keṯe ākẖahi ākẖaṇ pāhi.Many speak and try to describe Him.
    ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ केते कहि कहि उठि उठि जाहि ॥ Keṯe kahi kahi uṯẖ uṯẖ jāhi.Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.
    ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥ एते कीते होरि करेहि ॥ Ėṯe kīṯe hor karehi.If He were to create as many again as there already are,
    ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥ ता आखि न सकहि केई केइ ॥Ŧā ākẖ na sakahi ke▫ī ke▫e.even then, they could not describe Him.
    ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ जेवडु भावै तेवडु होइ ॥Jevad bẖāvai ṯevad ho▫e.He is as Great as He wishes to be.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ नानक जाणै साचा सोइ ॥ Nānak jāṇai sācẖā so▫e.O Nanak, the True Lord knows.
    ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥ जे को आखै बोलुविगाड़ु ॥ Je ko ākẖai boluvigāṛ.If anyone presumes to describe God,
    ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥ ता लिखीऐ सिरि गावारा गावारु ॥२६॥ Ŧā likī▫ai sir gāvārā gāvār. ||26||he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||
    इस प्रकार अनेक उदहारण गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब में मिलते हैं जिनसे हमे गुरु साहिबान द्वारा ब्रह्मा,विष्णु और शिव भगवानों की स्तुति का वर्णन मिल सकता हैं। कुछ अज्ञानी सिख पाकिस्तानियों के बहकावे में आकार अलगाववाद की बात करते हैं तो वे यह भी भूल जाते हैं की उत्तर भारत कें सभी हिन्दू परिवारों में सबसे बड़े लड़के को परिवार में सिख अर्थात गुरुओं का शिष्य बनयाया जाता था जिससे की वो देश,जाती और धर्म के लिए अपने प्राणों की बाजी लगा सके। इतिहास को भले ही सिख जूठा सिद्ध करने की कोशिश कर सकते हैं पर क्या गुरु ग्रन्थ साहिब को भी जुठ्ला सकते हैं।

  12. @vinay, if Saudi government not allow other religious places at their country then you peoples have problem but now supporting the same thing…..what a double standard!
    first pair of this world was Muslim and their religion was islam. Allah has sended hidayat for every society .
    if i ask simple questions on veda then you’ll start twisting the answer . If you read veda then it seems that veda came at later stages of humanity . dayananda already told that there were some languages before Sanskrit .
    without giving these answers you’ll start that it is not veda that is not veda. those four books are veda or not.

    • adam and eve never existed the whole world population did not come from pairs and sanskrit is defintley one of oldest languages all agree but we cant trace it back more than 2000bc as many of india’s history has been destroyed and defintley vedas is oldest living religious scripture and if saudi government do that then we should also why should we give this freedom of religion but when we go to muslim countries they dont give us?

      • @agnostic, my comment was directed to vinay BTW how could you say that humanity not evolved.from one pair? You believe science according to your choice. Science also said that their is no soul and no reincarnation.
        if primary researchees indicating that humanity did not came from one pair then you believe it,do you believe it is final research? No scientigic fact can contradict islam.
        you must always remember that in india more than 30% are non hindu and they have their role in law making. you first unite your hindus on one believe then talk to others.

      • science does not say soul and reincarnation do not exist they say we have no evidence to believe in them but the truth is science cant go into the spirtual world but they can go into history and the abrahamic beliefs are based on history and islam is full of errors and the different beliefs in hinduism is the greatnesss of hinduism which is how you can find all world beliefs in india in large numbers

    • @anti-agni
      Change your behaviour.Talk with good manner.
      “first pair of this world was Muslim and their religion was islam”.
      ahahahaha.Pair of world?????Where did you see a pair of world??????/
      “If you read veda then it seems that veda came at later stages of humanity ”
      I read Vedas not you.So I can say something about them not you.Did I say Vedas came after some time?And which are the stages of humanity?Let me see what a Quran-minded man can tell to me.
      “dayananda already told that there were some languages before Sanskrit .”
      Please don’t remain in your dreams Mr.Sanskrit is the first,oldest and the mother of all languages.And where did you see that Dayanand’s sentence?May be in your sweat dreams?
      First sentence “Science also said that their (he meant there)is no soul and no reincarnation”
      Second sentence “do you believe it is final research”.
      So,it is not a final research which says there is no soul,no rebirth.

      • @vinay, first read satyathprakash to learn manners. you can see how arrogantly he has written about quran and all the religions.
        you believe in soul even science is denying it but you can’t believe that humanity evolved from one pair because of course science denying it? What a double standard.
        Your moolshankar told you that quran can’t be from God because it is in Arabic so it’ll be unfair and unjust to other language peoples but veda has been given in a new language to make it fair for everyone.
        were those rishi first human on this earth? Actually nothing is clear about veda and first and foremost thing what is veda but as told by aryasamajis that those rishis prayed hard and goes to such higher level that iswara gave them vedas. if those were not first persons thwn they must have some languages and you know as moolshankar told that veda has been given in a new language so Sanskrit is not oldest and not mother for all languages.

      • @anti-agni
        You said “first read satyathprakash to learn manners”.
        So,you accpeted that Satyarth Prakash can teach manners and is a great book.
        You said “you can see how arrogantly he has written about quran and all the religions.”
        If Satyarth Praksh teaches manners then why do you say him arrogant.Or if he is arrogant why do you tell me to learn manners from that book.Do you want to destroy my character?
        “you believe in soul even science is denying ”
        Science believes what is logical.Arya Samajists prove the existence of a soul.Your body is made up of C,H,N,P etc.Those molecules do not know anything.So,a body formed from such elements should also know nothing.But all of the movements made by an organism are by knowledge.It means that there must be some entity governing the body.The entity is called soul.The soul is you.When you move to right the body moves to right not to left.So,it is you which is called as soul.The sould should not be made up of funadamental elements.Because if it is made up of fundamental elements then it will also be ignorant.So,the soul is considered to be invisible and non-materialistic.
        “Your moolshankar told you that quran can’t be from God because it is in Arabic so it’ll be unfair and unjust to other language peoples but veda has been given in a new language to make it fair for everyone.”
        Swami Dayanand did not refute Quran just because it was in Arabic but for its bad teachings.You are a liar and a cheater.
        “were those rishi first human on this earth?”
        Those four persons were the first persons over this earth.

      • @vinay, i think you are another real aryasamaji who never use his brain. my point was your book is satyarthprakash and it is full of arrogant language and false logic and you are telling me about manners? You xan srarch comments by your fellow aryasamjis…word manner not suit you.
        i have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis also. i can’t write all the points here and those would be out of subject. if i have given one point it doesn’t mean that it is only point? Do you not understand common way of writing ?
        Every hindu is unique in his faith and religion. now you are new who is saying that those rishis were first persons? It means veda was not given in new language and those rishis were speaking Sanskrit from childhood, so moolshankar was wrong that veda were given in a new language.
        who were those anarya and kikat about which veda speaking if rishis were first persons? Those prayers of veda in which rishis requesting iswara that give us wealth of anarya and give Victory on anaryan country?
        you peoples give so much contradictory statements?!!!

      • he criticised all beliefs fairly with questions for the beliefs to answer if their religion is true theres nothing wrong in establising the truth for so many years those questions were left unanswered and you dont understand hinduism or any other beliefs and the muslims and christians were the ones who started criticising and attacking other beliefs and spreading lies about them and like many hindus did not take too much notice until groups like arya samaj came to expose the lies made by muslims and christians and arya samaj were feared throughout india for it and millions of muslims and christians came back to hinduism through them

      • @agnostic, satyarthprakash already thoroughly refuted and all the points raised by moolshankr were answered by maulana sanaullah amratsari in haq prakash. you can. download fronn islamhinduism site. if you don’t know about dammam it doesn’t mean dammam doesn’t exists in this world.
        if you ask any question with manners then it is noo problem but read satyarthprakash, it is like i want to know your father’s name and i say that if you’ll not tell me your father’s name within 10 seconds then it means you are bastard.what will you do after listening such question ? And your propaganda that answer has not been given can’t be justified.
        he. has used wrongfully translation of quran and said that my pupils gave it to me and it has been checked by many maulanas. but.in reality translation is wrong and either he has been fooled by his chelaas or he has done it willingly.
        you peoples have double standards for science and Hinduism. sanaullah sb proved that samme you believe from veda but object on Quran.
        researches are going on amd one day it’ll be proved that humanity has been evolved from one pair.
        i think you don’t know the meaning of millions or you are living in fools paradise. even it is impossible that one million Muslim change to Hinduism. just think what you’re writing .

      • @ant-agni
        “i think you are another real aryasamaji who never use his brain”
        You are citicising other beliefs with no basis.What stupidity did I show?
        “word manner not suit you.”
        so according to allah word manner does not suit us.So,allah is a an orthodox god.
        “have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis also.”
        Detail??I can’t see any detail.He never denied quran on language basis.Can you shw us the proof?
        “now you are new who is saying that those rishis were first persons”
        We are not new.Maharshi Vyasji has said the same.Maharshi valimiki also the same.Maharshi Manu,the most old Rishi also said the same.Brahma,Vishnu,Mahesh(not gods but great humans) also said the same.We are just re-writing the same thing.For proof,you can check their books.Manu smiriti states clearly that those four rishis were agni,angira,aditya and vayu.
        “It means veda was not given in new language ”
        How do you conclude it?Even if it is new it does not mean that is wrong.But this faith is not new but very old as stated above.
        “Those prayers of veda in which rishis requesting iswara that give us wealth of anarya and give Victory on anaryan country?”
        Without knowing about Aryas do not speculate bad.
        “satyarthprakash already thoroughly refuted and all the points raised by moolshankr were answered by maulana sanaullah amratsari in haq prakash”
        The above book has been refuted by many scholars of Arya Samaj like Rajendra Jijyasu,Mahendra Pal Arya,etc.Check Arya Samaj vs Islam on you tube.
        “he. has used wrongfully translation of quran and said that my pupils gave it to me ”
        He has not used wrong translation,said so many mullas.
        “it is impossible that one million Muslim change to Hinduism. just think what you’re writing ”
        yes,millions of Muslims were converted into Hinduism by Swami Shraddhanand.This is the reason he had to die by a muslim with a gun.You are very violent.
        “researches are going on amd one day it’ll be proved that humanity has been evolved from one pair.”Will it take many years?I may die.Why don’t you prove it on the basis of Quran’s science?Why are you waiting for other sicentists?Has Zakir Naik not worked on science in Quran?

      • who told you maulana amritsari refuted anything he tried is hand to become famous but he was beaten and refuted many times in debates by arya samaj he and his team of muslim were scared of arya samaj that he used ahmadi abdul haq vidthyathi to support him the heretic sect of islam who’s promised mahdi mirza gulam ahmed amritsari tried to attack and swami dayanand saraswati’s translation was not incorrect i checked the translations all of them are correct only the reference for some verses have to be checked for as printing gave wrong reference but verses do exist and the true arya samaj were so feared by muslims in india because through them millions left islam why do you find it hard to believe when you believe islam is fastest growing religion in the world? and now i know why you hate agniveer your a supporter from the fantic islamhinduism website which was refuted when they tried to come on this website tell them if they can to come on this site again we willl refute them again also im sure just like islamhinduism website you want to keep bring up dharam pal arya an ex muslim? and its proven fact gentically all humans did come from a pair we came from a group of people just like how swami dayanand saraswati said

      • @vinay, you are behaving like a kid. I was thinking that you know the preface of my points but either you are new to agniveer and aryasamaj or you are following moolshankar. Moolshankar in his book satyarthprakash objected on quran and what he did he just taken any ayat out of context and explained according to his ill will, same think you are doing here. I have asked that if veda contain prayers that give us wealth of these kikta or anaryan countries that it means at the time when veda was landing on rishis mind there were other countries and if tere are countries then there must be language….but what you did ? you just taken a line and said to me that without understand arya why are you objecting onthose (selfish ) prayers. Any kid can understand that my objection was not prayers but I want to prove that at veda’s time there were other civilizations too so veda was not revealed at starting time of humanity.
        Regarding language of quran your answer shows you have not studied satyarthprakash because in 14th samhullas point no 4 moolshankar has written that”iss se aisa samajhna chahiyye ki jis pustak mein pakshpat ki batein payi jayein who poustak ishwar krit nahi ho sakti jaisa ki arabi bhasha main utarne se arab walon ko iska parhna sugam aur anya bhasha walon ko kathin hota hai. Isi se khuda mein pakshpat ata hai aur jaise parameishwar ne SRASHTISTH SAB DESHASTH MANUSHYON PAR NIYAYE DRASHTI SE SAB DESH BHASHAON SE VILAXAN SANSKRIT BHASHA KI JO SAB DESHWASIYON K LIYE EIK SE PARISHRAM SE VISIT HOTI HAI USI MEIN VEDON KA PRAKASH KIYAH. YEH KARTA TO KARTA TO KUCH BHI DOSH NAHI HOTA.????
        DO YOU understand now?? If wanted to say that at that there were only one country or language than his words must be different but here sab desh bhashaon se vilaxan word is showing that there were other languages and civilization at that time.

      • @anti-agni
        DON’T GO OUT OF YOUR HEAD.sPEAK POLITELY AND STOP SAYING ME A KID.oTHERWISE I HAVE MORE GOOD WORDS FOR YOU..
        Your logics are like a dumb illiterate.Arabi,english,hindi,chinese,japanese,french etc. are man made languages.So,if Vedas were revealed in a language like English or Arabi then it would mean that the God is Pakshpati.Because if the God reveals Vedas in English then it would be a determination to Indians.If it would have been revealed in Sanskrit then it would have mean that the God is not pakshpati.Because Sanskrit is not the language of one country but the language of of the whole world.But he revealed in Sanskrit does not mean that there were other civilisations too.
        If you have an aldol already it does not mean that this aldol which you have was derived from ketone and aldehydes.Already made aldols are found in nature.

  13. India has different religions as India has accepted different people who are free to worship.
    Saudi allows only Islam, there you go, and why beacoz as Dr Zakir said 2+2=4, dear god, what utter ruibbish from dr zakir.
    Tjis dr zakir should emigrate to saudi if he belives 2+2=4

  15. @vinay, Regarding haque prakash, I have read both the books satyarth and haque and it seems that you have read none. Mr. arya musafir tried to answer some points but his answers were also included in second addition of haque prakash. I have read satyarth prakash and even I can refute all the objections of 14th samhullas.
    First point is that it seems that moolshankar never read whole quran because he used such translation which has not been done by any muslim. So, from many available translations of quran you cant identify which one he used. He was unknown to Arabic and he used translation done by his chelas. I don’t who are those mullas who approved his translation but iam telling you with full confidence that he has used wrong translation at many places. He said that satan(iblis) was farishta (angel) and it is crystal clear from quran that iblis was jinn. It means he has not read full quran and objected wrongly to show his intellectual fallacy.
    Mr. rampal arya also said on you tube in his debates and speeches that allah ordered AJAJEEL to bring dust and then Allah made adam from that dust so why Ajajeel denied to bow down infront of adam that I have brought the dust which you have used. There is no word AjAJEEL iin quranand no where quran says that Allah ordered satan or ajajeel to bring dust??? It means pandit g also not studied whole quran.. now you can review your faith on both of them. If you have simple brain then you can use it to find your way without relying on wrong persons.

    • anti agni vinay is talkig about when you said ” i have already told you in detail that moolshankar denied quran on language basis ” vinay told you mool shankar didnt deny the quran for only for language basis but denied the quran for many reasons and first you said the translations are wrong and not accepted by scholors but now your are saying they are out of context? as for arabic it is very new language as for sanskrit it is very old and is one of the oldest languages all agree and there was no country in the beginning there was only land the land we now call as indian subcontient is refered to as aryavarta by swami dayanand saraswatias as i know sanskrit is a language the rishis developed through the knowledge(vedas) so that mankind can get some understand of knowledge but its believed that just like now the true knowledge of vedas and sanskrit was lost but then revived and then lost again like it is now by most indians and can you tell me where this rampal arya made these claims about ajajeel im not aware of this? and just because some muslim fantic who needs help from hertic sects of islam like the ahmadi to debate with arya sama jafter he and his team lost debates manytimes before answered them doesnt mean he refuted sathyarth prakash as for iblis many sources say iblis was a disobediant angel but most muslims say he was jin and was made to prostrate adam just like the angels were because the angels and jins were similar rank if you think the translation is wrong which it isnt i will give you translation by islamic scholor yusuf ali ” It is We Who created you And gave you shape;Then We bade the angels Bow down to Adam, and they Bowed down; not so Iblīs;He refused to be of those Who bow down” nowhere does it say the angels and jins were made to prostrate it says only angels where iblis didnt agree to as for swami dayanand saraswati translation it is very similar but the reference is wrong probably because of print the swami dayand saswati full translation says 10:10-17 and while for yusuf ali it is 7:11-18 and you may think im supporting arya samaj im not im looking for truth and i have looked at different beliefs so im thinking of joing arya samaj or sikhism and i recommend you should to and if you think you and your muslims can refuture sathyarth parkash lets see?

      • @agnostic, ayat you are referring is of surah baqarah which is surah no 2 in mushaff/book but revealed later ie in madina but in surah kahf surah no 18 which is makki surah and revealed earlier than baqarah it was clear that iblis was jin. You can read in surah kahf
        “Behold! We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam”: They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!”
        It is quranic way that it never emphasize on unnecessary things, if it is already told that iblis was from jin then there is no necessity to repeat it. You can read in surah baqarah which you are referring Allah says
        “And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith”.2:34
        Any person who has not studied whole quran only he can say that iblis is angel and we read quran daily, every one listen complete quran in ramadhan so there is no confusion. My point is valid that pandit rampal and moolshankar both never studied complete quran, they were fooled by their pupils.
        Regarding your objection that why iblis was punished when Allah ordered angels to bow down then if you read quran then it will also clear. When Allah asked iblis why you haven’t bowed down then he must say that you have ordered to angels no me but what he replied? He said that I am superior than adam and I am created from fire and Adam from dust. If he was confused then after hearing Allah’s order he must bow down.
        I hope that you can understand it and now it is clear that moolshankar has fooled everyone. As my past experience aryasamajis now turn the topic to why Allah wanted iblis to bow down…he is most monotheistic person…etc etc, even it is not the topic.
        If you are nice ,man than you should accept it.

  17. @hindu agnostic, you are answering just for tge sake of answering. you peoples are very irritating, i have written whole para from satyarth prakash and vinay supposed to answer not you. that para contains words like sabdeshasth, vilaxan which logically proves that there were some countries at the time of veda’s revelation. i have not said that arabic is only point of moolsankr but it was 4th and i have given whole para.
    iblis was from jinn is clearly given in quran and if you read whole quran it will become clear. In that ayat nowhere it is said that iblis was Angel? only a person who is new to Quran can claim that and it is the point that moolshankar never read whole quran he even don’t know that iblis was jin.
    no Muslim believe that iblis was angel because it is clear from Quran . surah baqarah was revealed later but it is in starting in Quran and that ayat in which iblis is jin revealed was earlier. so it is not explained in surah baqarah.

    • it doesnt matter who it is was for you tried to attack hinduism as a whole and im hindu/future arya samaji and if iblis was not an angel then why does allah from his own words say he made the angels bow down to adam and iblis didnt do it doesnt say angel and jins were made to bow down it shows allah considered iblis to be like an angel and in same rank and i gave you your own quote where you said mool shankar tried to attack quran by basing it on language maybe you changed it when you realised your mistake and i told you that wasnt his reason and mool shankar gives complete verse when iblis say he was made of fire but still if allah wanted only the angels to bow then why did he get angry wheen iblis refused? and it doesnt matter what few tamils think all agree sanskrit is older than tamil it is older than all languages in indian subcontient and many other languages outside as for sathyarth parkash english translation as i know it is done by arya samajis and only few english translations are accepted as i know like dr. chiranjiva bharadwaja,durga prasad etc

    • I said why don’t you put the right trasnlations here.you have not given the right translations in these 3-4 days and you are saying things out of context.It looks like either translations which Dayanand had were right or quran has not right translation so this kind of book is useless.
      I again say to you put the right ranslations here.

      • @vinay, why you want to change the topic? i am not talking about right or wrong translations..
        iblis can’t be translated as angel if yes then show .
        you can search right translation at quranhindi.com/ http://www.quran.com

      • @Anti-Agni
        If you do not have any knowledge of Quran, do not put your garbage . Quran is the highest authority to decide the truth for muslim. And as per Quran verses Iblish was an angel.
        And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)
        And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
        http://www.quran.com

  18. __________that para contains words like sabdeshasth, vilaxan which logically proves that there were some countries at the time of veda’s revelation_____
    Dayanand here wanted to say that Vedic language is the mother of all languages which does not belong to any country, people etc. If God gives knowledge in the language of particular country, God will be partial.
    Here is English translation
    “The Qoran would have been free from this defect, had it been revealed like the Veda in a language which is altogether distinct from all other languages and is not the mother-tongue of any people, just as God, through His justice vouchsafed into us all His Word”

    • @sanatani, original satyarthprakash is in Hindi and we know hindi so talk about hindi. What you have given is a wrong translation, no one can translate those lines as you have given. Hindi is showing another meaning and English another.
      vinay, your aldol analogy is not right. i am not saying that Sanskrit is derived from any other language as Tamil peoples claim that Sanskrit is derived from tamil but i am saying satyarthprakash samhullash 14 point 4 in Hindi. showing that at the time when rishi were receiving veda then therr were other civilizations and countries and languages were present . so Sanskrit can’t be oldest.
      if you can say anything about those words of point four then ok otherwise you are wasting my and your time . you peoples don’t understand simple Hindi, always strech the topic,never come on points and claim that you understand philosophies??
      you show that para to any third person and he will support my point.

      • Why is my aldol analogy not correct?And who said that we are not replying.At least 4 cooments have been given from our side.Instead of refuting my questions and logics you are saying that we are not replying.Please tell me,why is aldol analogy not right?

  20. @vinaay,you are not. takng on samhullash 14 point 4, sanatani shows English translation which is not translation. what do you want to say by aldol analogy? it seems that you want to prove that if there were languages present already before Sanskrit origin still it doesn’t mean that those languages are mother of Sanskrit but my was not that. i have explained point 4 and you can show anyone who is neutral and he will support,me. you peoples never come on points .

    • @anti-agni
      Can I know which language you assume world oldest language if it is not Vedic language? Which scripture do you think divine / free from all errors. Please suggest me.

      • @Anti-Agni
        As per scientific point of view
        Sanskrit suggested as the best language for use in Computational Linguistics and Artificial Intelligence by NASA. It is the only language in the world which is scientifically precise as was discovered by the NASA scientist Rick Briggs as published in the Artificial Intelligence Magazine
        Rick Briggs:
        “As we shall see, there was a language spoken among an ancient scientific community that has a deviation of zero. This language is Sanskrit.”

    • I say a bowl you say a toilet !
      Wow!
      I want to say by aldol analogy that Sanskrit is not derived from any other language.Aldol is already present in the earth.And it does not require the presence of any other compound to get formed.Similarly,Sanskrit was present without any presence of other language.You couldn’t understand what I wrote.Aldol is quite hard for you.Just take the example of h2o.Isn’t it already present?If God had just revealed H2 no O2 then life wouldn’t have been possible.Similarly,if God had given Vedas in Urdu then human development wouldn’t have occured.Swami Dayanand clearly says “if God has revealed in other language”.Please lokk at the word “if”.The word “if” does not signify the sure presence of other languages.Swami Dayanand wants to say if God had revealed Vedas in Urdu then it would have been difficulty for Hindus(Indians).So,he revealed in Sanskrit which is the mother of all the languages.
      This I have already explained to you with great detail.

    • i just told you as i know sathyarth prakash english translation is done by arya samaji and i gave you names that are accepted just like english translation by popular islamic scholors yusuf ali and pickthall is accepted by muslims and no muslim i have come across goes against these translations and i gave you a good explanation but it seems like you being a muslim dont understand what im trying to say?

  21. @vinay, your h2o analogy is wrong. can you. not write language name or alphabet which signifies h or o? If h2 was tamil and 02 was arabic and h2o is Sanskrit then Sanskrit can’t be oldest. .
    do you understand Hindi? if yes then explain point no 4 of satyarthprakah because English translation is not correct specially for that para. English translation is saying that there were no languages or countries before Sanskrit but hindi satyarthprash is opposite.

  22. @anti-agni
    _____________-English translation is saying that there were no languages or countries before Sanskrit but hindi satyarthprash is opposite________
    Hindi language also not proving other languages are exist when Veda were revealed. “DESH BHASHAON SE VILAXAN SANSKRIT BHASHA KI JO SAB DESHWASIYON K LIYE EIK SE PARISHRAM ” Here it is clearly said Veda are given in the language(VILAXAN/Divine) which is language above all the
    languages of the world. Explanation is written in today context, in the era in which a lot of languages exist but as per Dayayand Ji Vedic langauge is above all these language..

  23. Don’t take H2 as tamil and o2 as arabic.It is not a physics equation in which you can put the values and get your desired answer.What I have explained is “If God had just revealed H2 no O2 then life wouldn’t have been possible.Similarly,if God had given Vedas in Urdu then human development wouldn’t have occured because it is not the language of all human beings.”.Do you want that I should solve my words by primary mathematics to make you understand?Even an 8th class student can do it.And can’t you see what others are writing.Can you see what “Sanatan Dharam” has written.

  24. @vinay & sanatani, vinay tumhari baat to samajh se pare h kiya tum simple words mein nahi samjha sakte?
    Sanatan mein samajh gaya ki aaplog kiya kehna chahte ho lekin use logically sabit to karo. satyarth prakash likhne wala bhi yahi samajhta tha par jab usne likha to phans gaya kiyunki jaise bhi likho samjha nahi sakte.
    jab likha h ki sab deshon se vilaxan Sanskrit bhasha se kiya jo ki sabdesh walon k liye eik se parishram se prapt hoti h. to agar aaj k liye bhi h to ghalat h kiyunki aryasamaji to musalman aur government ko koste rehte hn Sanskrit ko deshbhasha ban ne par. agar unki tamanna poori hojati to yahan paida hone wala aasani se hasil karleta phir bhi hindi aur Tamil wale k liye hasil karna aasan h.
    aur agar yeh kaho ki woh rishi first log the to kiya yeh unki paidaish ki language thi? Agar han to phir nai kahan hui? Aur phir koi aur option bhi nahi tha iswara k paas kiyunki woh hi akeli language thi.
    agar yeh kaho ki rishiyon ko ved hi Sanskrit mein mile to unki language kiya thi? Unki jo bhi language thi wahi first language aur oldest hui.
    aur sab deshon se vilaxan mein sab deshon ka kiya meaning h? Agar yeh aaj k context mrin to japani bhi sab desho se vilaxan h, Chinese bhi aur Russian bhi to Sanskrit mein kiya khas h?
    Aur phir vedon mein jo prayers hn ki in anaryon aur kikta countries ke pas wealth aur gayen kiya kar rahi hain? Hei iswara ise humein aryano ko do? to yeh countries ya bure logon ka group kaise paida ho gaya agar charon tishi pehla batch the? Burein logon k hone mein to time lagta h aur unki language kita thi?
    Jab tak aap log in points par bat nahi karoge to kiya fayeda? Jalebi tarah ghimana choro aur chemistry ka synthesis side rakho aur logical baat mane wale ho yeh sabit karo….ya moolshankar ka andhanukaran karte ho?

  25. @anti-agni
    If you knew somewhat Hindi then you wouldn’t have come at wrong meaning.Muslims do not try to know Hindi.I am saying what Swami Dayanand has said in that sentence third and last time.Swami Dayanand wants to say that if Vedas were revealed in Urdu then Indians would have found difficulty in studying Vedas.Similarly,China,Japan,France would have also found it difficult.So,Vedas were revealed in Sanskrit which is the mother of all the languages.Now,by this meaning you think that Sanskrit is not the oldest language.Rather you think,the languages which the four Rishis were having was the oldest not Sanskrit.Where did you find that Rishi knew some language?Vedic scriptures clearly state that Rishi did not knew any language and they were the first persons of the creation.The God revealed the Vedas in the heart of four Rishis in Sanskrit.And Sanskirt language was told to the Sages by the God himself.The Rishi did not knew the language because they were the first generation human beings.
    Now,you are taking the wrong meaning of Dayanand’s words.If Vedas were revealed in Urdu i.e. the language of only Arabs then it would have been discrimination by the God to the others.It means that the God did not reveal the Vedas in a language which was going to be language of one country only.The language of country means a language which is spoken in that country only.So,if God had revealed the Vedas in Urdu then the God had to tell them Urdu.But that language was going to be taught in Arabs only so other countries would have remained untouched from Vedas.Can’t you understand this point?I have already said it.Can’t you refute it?You are leaving most of the line and replying your garbage.
    So,Vedas were revealed in Sanskrit because it was easier to understand by all by equal work.But this logic does not mean that there were other languages too.Because it is a logic and a synergy.And does not at all mean there were other languages.Now,you are taking this logic in a very bad way.Swami Dayanaand has used this logic to make you understand some phenomena.By this logic he has tried to make you understand that the Quran is having teaching which support discrimination.And what kind of this discrimination is this?He has told by this example that a man can’t learn Vedas in Urdu but can learn in Sanskrit because Sanskrit is his mother tongue.And when someone says to him to learn Vedas in Urdu only then it would be a discrimination to that person.This is the example which Dayanaand has used.But you are misinterpretating Hindi language too.
    Before the words of Dayanand you have used Dayanand writes “isase aisa samajhana chahiye ki jis pustak me pakshpat ki baate paayi jaaye,vaha pustak ishwarakrit nahi ho sakata.”And after this he uses the word “jaise ki arabi bhasha me utarane se…”.Now,it is clearly proved that the sentence which you are quoting is an example similarly like I have used the aldol example.The Dayanand’s example has nothing to do with any history of languages before.

    • If one tries to say what Swami Dayanand has said in some other manner then the meaning of the whole paragraph would be “The book in which teachings of discrimination are found that book can’t be God-made.If one tries to understand what kind of the discrimination is the book showing then it is similar to that discrimination in which an American is forced to learn Quran in Urdu only.But the book of God can’t be of discrimination type.Vedas were revealed in a language i.e. Sanskrit which is not language of one country only.”
      Sentences like “there were other languages before Sanskrit too” are not found in that Paragraph,and hence,what anti-agni is writing is completely false.

    • i dont think vedic scriptures say when the vedas was put into the hearts and minds of rishis instead i think swami dayanand saraswati said it was beginning because he rejected evoultion as it was a new idea instead i think it was to the first group of humans

      • Swami Dayanand did not reject evolution just because it was a new hypothesis.Rather he provided evidence of rejection of evolution.Arya Samaj’s great Vedic scholar Swami Vidyanand Saraswati has provided very detailed proof of rejection of evolution hypothesis.Modern new scientists have completely changed evolution.If one species evolved from other then why does not today a monkey transforms into a human being.Why are the Arthropods today not converting into chordates?If you want to read full refutation of nearly 30-40 pages then you can by “Satyarth Bhaskar” by Swami Vidyanandji.Satyarth Bhaskar is an explanation of Satyarth Prakash in details.But you will find too many new things.
        Some mutations can occur in one’s body but a new organism can’t be evolved from earlier one.Like your ears are pierced and it is a change in one’s body.But when that man reproduces his child those child are not having pierced ears.Ifevolution hypothesis is correct which says simple organisms evolve into complex organisms then why is there not any organism greater than human beings.Protozoa=>metazoa>chordate=>homosapiens=>?
        What is the question mark here?Why is this question mark not filled from these thousands and lakhs of years?Why is there no organism greater than human beings after evolution of Homo sapiens before lakhs of years.

      • yes i know he gave his reasons for it we all know evoultion has its flaws but evoultion does not say we came from monkeys instead we came from a common ancestor who was ape like and monkeys are our cousins and it took millions of years even if it is true it doesnt conflict with hinduism and sikhism

      • It totally conflicts with these.There is no Hindu scripture talking about such kind of evolution.There may have been some other way of evolution which the scientists are still researching.But why is there no organsim greater than human beings evolved till now?There are not even signs of it.

  26. @anti-agni
    “Sanskrit mein kiya khas h?”
    Learn Sanskrit and then say what is special in Sanskrit.Only those persons can say like you who never read Sanskrit.If you had read Sanskrit then you would have not said so.Sanskrit is the most special and systemetic language of the whole world.But this fact can’t enter into your pungent smelling head.
    ” aryasamaji to musalman aur government ko koste rehte hn Sanskrit ko deshbhasha ban ne par”
    Do you want to stop us from our mission?Who are you to say to us that?anti-agni,don’t go outside your boundary.
    “Aur phir vedon mein jo prayers hn ki in anaryon aur kikta countries ke pas wealth aur gayen kiya kar rahi hain?”
    Do you know Hindi?Do you know how to frame a sentence?Wat do you want to say by this sentence?You are very weak in Hindi.Look at his sentence.You just want to say by such toota phoota sentence that western countries are having wealth but Vedas are having prayers.ullu ke pathe.If there are prayers then what?Can’t one pray to God?Do you know how the Vedas were written?Can’t atheists have wealth?First your sentence is showing your stupidity second your argument is in vaccum.
    “Jalebi tarah ghimana choro ”
    tatti ki tarah babakana band karo musalmano.
    “moolshankar ka andhanukaran karte ho?
    muhammad ka andhanukaran chodo aur mool shanakar ki sacchi rah par chalo musalmaano.

  27. anti-agni
    You have shown your face.We have replied to your questions again and again now its your time to reply
    (1)How can you prove the Quran to be the book of God?
    (2)How can you prove the existence of Muhammad?
    (3)How can you prove Quran was given to Muhammad?
    (4)Why did God revealed Bible before your Quran?
    Give me answers to this questions and then use your pungent mouth due to meat eating at other places.

  28. @vinay, you have shown that you are real aryasamaji. aryasamaji zyadader galiyon se door nahi reh sakta. tum log hindi nahi jante isliye aisa likhte ho warna tumhein maloom hona chahiyye ki shudh hindi koi nahi bolta india mein. mein apni language par comnand show karna nahi chahta bas apni baat pahuchana chahta hun. jab satyarthprakash hindi mein h to english mein kaise poore tarique se samajh ayegi?
    Agar tum logon ki aqal par tale na parein ho to tum samajh sakte the mein kiya kehna chahta tha…koi six grade ka chatra bhi samajh sakta h itni. baar samjhane par. eik baar aur try karta hun …
    west par wealth h ya nahi yeh point nahi h point yeh h ki agar ved jin rishiyon ko diye gaye woh first group the to vedon jin anarya aur kikta deshon ka maal aryon ko dene ki bat h woh anarya country kahan se agayin? Kiya unki language nahi thi? Kiya koi group aate hi anarya ban gaya? Ya ishwara ne doosre desh mein bina language k anarya banakar kuch logon k bheja aur hand in hand vedon mein prayers utardin ki unka maal unke paas kiya kar raha h humein do?
    Jab tm jawab dete ho to adhi baat likhte ho aur phir hero bante ho.

    • anti agni be a good muslim, resprct other beliefs instead of spreading lies about other beliefs and we hindus have no problem with any muslim most hindus wuld tell you there are many paths to god so they respect all beliefs

  29. God does not form Anaryas.It is not your Quran book in which Shaitan forms bad persons.Anaryas are formed due to lack of intellect,Vedic knowledge and sympathy like you.But Anaryas can also have wealth due to hard work.Anaryas can also become Aryas.It is not like Musalamanas.Write Hindi in Devnagari or write in roman so that I can get more understanding.You are a real Musalaman who wants to make us Muslims.Take your ass out of here and go back to Arab.

    • Blind and dumb anti-agni
      I have also asked you questions.But you are not replying to them from last 7 days.It means that you do not have any answer.You have lost in the war.If you think you won give answer to those four questions and other questions asked to you.You think that you will ask a question to me about my religion and I will have no answer and you can make me easily a Musalamaan.ahahaahah.I am not that person.I sad go away from this forum.If we talk stupidity then go to your Pakistan and spread Islam in those countries very bravely.

  30. “tumhein maloom hona chahiyye ki shudh hindi koi nahi bolta india mein”
    sapano me rahane waale musalaman,tumhe hindi ki kya samajh.yadi hoti to itni kharaba na likhatata.aur is desha me karodo log shuddh hindi bolate hai.tujhe to desh ka bhi nahi pata.ishwar,ved aur jyaan ke baare me mujhe kya batayega.tere desh pakistan me logo ko urdu tak nahi aati hai.ve bhi hindi ka sahara lekara kaam karate hai.

  31. @vinay, tum apna aapa kho chuke ho, mein devnagri mein type nahi kar sakta kiyunki mein mobile se type kar raha hun aur mein type karta bhi nahi hindi mein. jab tum samajh sakte ho to jawab kiyun nahi sakte? Kiya aqal pair par latka aye ho? English mein nahi samajhte. hindi mein nahi to answer kaise doge?
    Tum eik mansik beemar ho par logically fail ho.

    • anti-agni
      Your name denotes against fire.But you can’t even stand before fire.
      hahahaha
      Give answers to my questions and the answers to the question which were asked to us have been provided.Now what are you waiting for.You will defame Vedas and Maharshi Dayanand once again along with me with no basis.And you will again be answered by one of us.Your all allegations are based on your ignorance.Now on the basis of that ignorance you will again say many allegations.There is no end.But better it would be if you give up your tendency understanding that as my earlier allegations are false so my furture allegatios would be false.
      Why can’t you refute my logics except saying “tum apna aapa kho chuke ho,Kiya aqal pair par latka aye ho,English mein nahi samajhte,you have shown that you are real aryasamaji. aryasamaji zyadader galiyon se door nahi reh sakta,vinay tumhari baat to samajh se pare h kiya tum simple words mein nahi samjha sakte? etc. etc.You are unable to refute anything and it is natural.Because Quran minded man can do this much only.You coudn’t prove there used to exist some other civilisations too.
      A again ask “If you have power and logic then answer the following questions :
      (1)How can you prove the Quran to be the book of God?
      (2)How can you prove the existence of Muhammad?
      (3)How can you prove Quran was given to Muhammad?
      (4)Why did God revealed Bible before your Quran?”
      But do not forget to answer the other questions made by us.
      “Tum eik mansik beemar ho par logically fail ho.”
      logically fail ho logically fail ho logically fail ho?are!pahle tum fail to kare fir kahana.
      But i have now more new questions:
      (1)Why does Quran say a donkey can fly?
      (2)Why do you cut a cow in the name of allah?
      (3)Why do you kill non-muslims?
      (4)Why do you not let other temples to be built in your country?
      (5)Why Quran says to bath only on the day of Jumma?
      (6)Why are all terrorists Muslims?
      (7)Why is it well known that Osama was a true follower of Quran?
      (8)Why riots only happen between Hindus and Muslims?
      (9)Why Muhammad married to 14 women?
      (10)Why Muhammad did sex with a 6 year old girl named “Ayesha”?
      Answer the above questions then open your pungent smelling mouth on Vedas.

      • जब कि सूर्य लपेटा जावे॥और जब कि तारे गदले जावें॥और जब कि पहाड चलाये जावें।और जब आसमान की खाल उतारी जावे॥(मं।७।सि।३०।सू।८१।आ।१।२।३।११॥)
        ये हैं कुरान की बातें।भला सूर्य लपेटा जाता है?यदि लपेट दे तो आईंस्टीन भी फैल है।पहाड चलाये जावें?हाहाहाहा!मुसलमानों का अल्लाह इतना भी नहीं जानता कि प्न तो सूर्य लपेटा जाता है और न ही पहाड चलता है।इससे मुसलमानों का अल्लाह मूर्ख और मुहम्मद ढोंगी सिद्ध होता है।कुरान में सब तर्कविरुद्ध है।आसमान की खाल????तो इससे सिद्ध होता है कि कुरान किसी मूर्ख ने बनाया था और उसको मानने वाले भी मूर्ख हैं।

      • @vinay, kiya bhainse ka dimagh h tere paas? Tameez se baat nahi kar sakta? Apne aap ko arya kehta h kiya yeh apni tareef nahi h? NOBLE VINAY? Satyathprakash parh parh kar aqal par andhkar cha gaya h. tu apne jawab dobara oarh tune jawab hi kahan diya h poora? Jab poocha jata h ki anarya log kahan se aa gaye to kabhi kehta h ki anarya satan ki tarah paida nahi hote balki bure karmon se hote hn aur kabhi kehta h ki anaryon k paas maal ho to kiya aaryon par na hon?
        Sanatani ne kuch answer dene ki koshish ki par satyarthprakash ko jhutla kar aur arabi ko accept karke. tujhse yeh poocha h ki anaryon k desh ban gaye to kiya eik pal mein ho gaya? Jab ved receive karne wale rishi pehle the to anarya kahan se agaye aur unki language kiya thi? Kiya anarya first batch mein the? Tu kisi aur se parhwa kar sanajh ki mein kiya keh raha hun.
        jab ved pehle group k logon ko mile aur jab tak koi language bhi develop nahi hui thi to bure logon k group k group kaise paida ho gaye? Aur vedon mein prayer bhi aa gayi . iska matlab ved civilization mein baad mein aaye hain .
        yeh site ved k liye h Quran par puche gaye sawal entertain nahi kiye. jayenge. aur iblis jinn h par satyarthprakash mein Angel likha h yeh to mante ho? Satyarthprakash ghalat sabit hui na!

      • @anti-agni
        tu kuch bhi kar le mai satya dharma ka rakshak tha aur rahunga.tu chahe mujhe pagala kahe va koi aur gali de.mai to itane samajhata hu ki dharm ki raksha karana mera farja hai aur use mai nibha raha hu.tu kaun hota hai mujhe bahakaane waala.
        maine pratyeka prashna ka puri detail jaba diya.tumhari taraha maine koi gali bhi nahi di.tumhe pata hai tumhari aur tumhare paigamber ki arya samaj me nahi chalane waali hai.haahahah
        tum kara bhi kya sakate ho.maine kaha ki anarya apane avidya se paida hote hai.kya isme ved ka dosh hai.kya maali ke baag me fal ke alawa ghasa paida nahi hoti hai.yaha tark mai tumhe de chuka hu.fir bhi tumhari buddhi me kuch nahi baithata hai.kyonki quran jo padh liya hai.
        tum mere prashno ka uutar do.aur kuch mai nahi chahataa hu.
        yadi is baar uttar nahi mile to yaha samajhana tu haar gaya.

      • @Anti-Agni
        ______Sanatani ne kuch answer dene ki koshish ki par satyarthprakash ko jhutla kar aur arabi ko accept karke____
        I also believe Quran is collection of wrong teachings in its entirety. Although some verses in Quran true but most of its teachings false and wrong.
        You are talking Iblees was Jinn. But Quran clearly says Iblees was an Angle. Are these verse of Quran wrong?
        And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)
        And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
        http://www.quran.com

      • Secret of DR Ali Sina win and challenge to Muslim in “Ali Sina words”
        “Anyone can win when debating against Islam. The reason I win my debates with Muslims is not because I am smarter than them. It is because they are defending a indefensible argument. Muslims are in a no-win position.
        Let us say person A puts himself inside a well and person B is standing on the ground. Then person A challenged person B to throw stones at each other. Who do you think will win? Strength does not matter here. It is the position that matters.
        Muslims have placed themselves inside a deep well. Any child can stone them to defeat,”

  32. @Anti-Agni
    Veda are not subject of language but Veda are universal, eternal, everlasting truths. Truth which do not relate only to some place, people etc.
    When we sayn “rabbi alAAalameen” (God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds), “Ayam Gauhu Swaha (this earth revolves around the Sun in the space) etc. etc. are Veda. Whatever “universal, eternal, everlasting truths” in Quran, Puran, Ramayan, Bibal are Veda. Knowledge whichever is not eternal, everlasting and universal in these books are not Veda.

    • @sanatani, you peoples are confused . uf veda is true knowledge then what about point number 4 of samhullash 14? “Ved ka prakah Sanskrit mein kiya” and you know Quran is in Arabic and rabbul alameen is arabc then how could be veda?
      Ya to tum ghalat ho ya satyarthprakash …aur satyarthprakash to h hi ghalat. iblis ko farishta bataya h jabki woh jinn h..

      • @anti-agni
        I have nothing to do with Sayarth parkash and Moolashankar. I believe God is eternal, everlasting, universally one. So, God knowledge also should be eternal ,everlasting and universal. This knowledge is called “Veda” in one word. If any book does not have such knowledge which is eternal, everlasting and universal that is not from God. Although some people claims only rig, yaju, Sam, and Athar ( Four books) are collection of universal truths. Until now I also found it to be true. But if I found story of any person, place in these books I will reject this idea that these four books have Veda in complete form.

      • @Anti-Agni
        __________uf veda is true knowledge then____
        Not only true but this knowledge should be universal, eternal, everlasting to be called Veda. Such as “rabbi alAAalameen” (God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds), “Ayam Gauhu Swaha (this earth revolves around the Sun in the space)

  33. @vinay, jab tum satyarthprakash ki eik baat ko nahi prove kar sakte to samajh lo ki kaise bewaqoof banaya gaya h satyarthprakash mein. moolshankar k jo man mein aya likhta raha aur tum log aqal ko kahin chor kar ya tala laga kar parhte ho.
    tum sabit hi nahi kar sakte ki Sanskrit first language thi. bahut questions hain jo bata nahi sakte.

    • Truth is unchangeable and hence cannot be corrupted…Truth never ceases and hence always exist…Thats why God gives first true knowledge ie Vedas to humans at inception of civilization since God also always exist….Since God is reality, his knowledge is also real ie truth & so unchangeable……So Vedas are also unchangeable and cannot be corrupted……Hence truth = vedas proved…. ;)…In this way without any scripture ,a human can understand what is truth by understanding nature of truth ..:)

    • anti-agni
      I have porved what Dayanand wrote but your Quran minded brain can’t understand it.to samajh le teri aqal me tere mullo ka tatti bhara pada hai.and anti agni i am saying last time.stop saying baaad words …
      otherwise iwill think you are a dog who just barks at others.
      Answer my questions anti-agni answer.
      ahahahah

    • @anti-agni
      abe!tu muhammad ka stitva to siddha karke dikha.tu to wo bhi na kar saka.to samajh le tere mullao ne tujhe kitna bewkuf banaya aur tum aqal ke gobar us ko maanate chale aaye.
      ahahahah

    • @anti-agni
      abe!tu muhammad ka astitva to siddha karke dikha.tu to wo bhi na kar saka.to samajh le tere mullao ne tujhe kitna bewkuf banaya aur tum aqal ke gobar us ko maanate chale aaye.
      ahahahah

  34. @anti-agni
    We should not stick to any book which divides the people on name of religion, worship etc. It can not be book revealed by God. Moolashanker may be wrong somewhere but his intention was pure. He was against the book which promotes hatred, violence. So he written in Satyarhtparkas about Quran. According to him Quran is not the book given by Allah /God. Quran verses invoke the people to fight against Idol worshipers and non-believers. Idol worship or non-worship does not do any harm to anyone including Allah. Then for what Allah punishes Idol worshiper and non-worshiper eternally. If no victim exist.

  35. @sanatani, if you yourself claiming that i have won the debate then yes you are winner a self approved winner. i have never seen ali sina’s debate then how can he win? I have given you ayat http://www.quran.com/18:50. Surah kahf ayat 50 which directly telling you that iblis is from jinn then . still you want to believe that iblis was Angel then it is your problem . it is our faith thay Angels have no free will but jinn and human have free will so if iblis is angel then he can’t deny Allah’s order. if aruasamaj have satanic angels then it is your problem .
    vinay tumhare dimagh mein bhunsa h kiya? Mein poonch kiya raha hun aur jawab kiya de rahe ho?

    • @anti-agn
      __________-Surah kahf ayat 50 which directly telling you that iblis is from jinn then ___________
      But these Aayat clearly telling Iblees was an angle, why not you read them
      And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. (2.34)
      And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused. (20.116)
      http://www.quran.com
      ________vinay tumhare dimagh mein bhunsa h kiya____
      I am giving you proof from Quran where Allah says iblees was an Angle. Are these verses wrong.

      • @sanatani, i am also giving you proof from quran but you are not trying to understand. you show from quran where it is saying that iblis is from angel?
        in sutrah kahf it is mentioned earlier that “And [mention] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam,” and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.” 18:50
        those ayat which you are showing are of later revealations so there was no need to tell it again. if you can add anything then its ok but you are streching it without any meaning.
        your fellow aryasamaji claim in this website(you can search previous arguments at agniveer) that iblis was jinn so he was not supposed to prostrate because that order was directed to angels so his punishment is wrong? first you peoples decide what you want tyo say?
        your both arguments are negating by just simply reading and understanding the quran. you are saying from quran that iblis was angel and same quran is saying that when Allah asked why you have not prostrated then he repplied
        “And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, “Prostrate to Adam”; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
        [ Allah ] said, “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?” [Satan] said, “I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay.”” surah araaf ayat 11-12
        if he was angel then he must say that you have created me from light(noor) because malaika/angels have been created from noor.
        @vinay, tere to samajh hi nahi aaya ki maine kiya poocha aisa kar kisi se mera comment parhwa le aur samajh ki mein kiya kahna chahta hun. kabhi kisi ko dekha hai apne aap ko noble claim karte hue? eik taraf to tum kehte ho ki arya and anarya karam k adhar par nahi aur khud hi claim kar rahe ho ki mein arya hun ya mein noble hun? tum konhote ho decide karne wale?

      • There are several questions that I have which to my knowledge have not yet been answered by Islam:
        1- If the whole universe (all the stars and planets) were created for the earth then it should surround the earth, but here the earth is surrounding the sun and that surrounds the galaxy. The Quran failed to mention this.
        2- The whole universe was created for humans, the stars at night are used to find your path, etc., but there are billions of planets in the universe. Are they too created for us? What is the use for humans in this?
        3- Allah created all humans from two humans (Adam and Hawwa). Their sons and daughters were sisters and brothers, how could they marry and reproduce among themselves?
        4- Prophet Nooh collected a pair of all the animals on the earth in his Ark. How would it be possible to collect them all? There are still unnamed and unidentified animals on earth. There are also many variety of animals in its own genus, for example; there are more than 200 types of frogs, 300 types of snakes and etc.,
        5- Human and chimpanzee DNA match over 99%, why is it so?
        6- Science has proved that millions of animals lived before the human, why?
        I have left islam for my self respect and for future of my kids as I dont want them to be called terrorists….I feel islam is not for current age and shud be voided.I considering following Buddhism and Hinduism..
        Let me know if any muslim can answer me…

    • @anti-agni
      Brother, it is very tough task for Muslim to read Ali Sina. But if you have guts I advise to read him.
      alisina.org

      • @sanatani, bro i have read alisina many times and i found him wrong. i can refute his arguments but it depends upon perception. i have not seen any debate of ali sina with any renowned muslim and previously you were saying that ali sina have won all the debates with muslims?
        why you peoples contradict everytime.

      • @anti-agni
        _________i can refute his arguments_____
        Why not you refute and win 100000 USD? I am searching such a great person.
        What you think about Mubahila. I liked this great Islamic practice, one of the greatest Islamic way to judge the truth. All visitors please read Mubahila.
        http://alisina.org/blog/2012/02/17/mubahila-the-islamic-cursing-tournament/
        Mubahila: The Islamic Cursing Tournament
        _________ peoples contradict everytime________
        What is my fault. Allah is not omniscient. Allah was not aware about Iblees would deny to bow down before aadam. Why not Allah gives us order directly to worship him as he given to angles to bow down before aadam.

  36. @vinay, i am repeating my question “tujhse yeh poocha h ki anaryon k desh ban gaye to kiya eik pal mein ho gaya? Jab ved receive karne wale rishi pehle the to anarya kahan se agaye aur unki language kiya thi? Kiya anarya first batch mein the? Tu kisi aur se parhwa kar sanajh ki mein kiya keh raha hun.
    jab ved pehle group k logon ko mile aur jab tak koi language bhi develop nahi hui thi to bure logon k group k group kaise paida ho gaye? Aur vedon mein prayer bhi aa gayi . iska matlab ved civilization mein baad mein aaye hain .”

  37. @vinay, “हे इन्द्र, अनार्य देशों के कीकट वासियों की गौओं का तुम्हे क्या लाभ है? उनका दूध सोम में मिला कर तुम पी नहीं सकते. उन गौओं को यहाँ लाओ. परमगन्द (उनके राजा), की संपत्ति हमारे पास आजाए. नीच वंश वालों का धन हमें दो. [ऋग्वेद ३/५३/१४]
    ये अनार्यों के धन और संपत्ति को लूटने की कैसी प्राथना वेदों में की गई है?
    ‘कीकट’ शब्द की व्याख्या करते हुए यास्क आचार्य ने अपनी पुस्तक ‘निरुक्त’ में लिखा है,
    कीकटा नाम देशो अनार्यनिवासः [निरुक्त ६/३२]
    अर्थात कीकट वह देश है जहां अनार्यों का निवास है. इस पर टिप्पणी करते हुए प्रसिद्ध आर्यसमाजी विद्वान पं. राजाराम शास्त्री ने लिखा है- “कीकट अनार्य जाती थी, जो बिहार में कभी रहती थी, जिस के नाम पर बिहार का नाम कीकट है.” (निरुक्त, पृ. ३२१, १९१४ ई.). स्वामी दयानंद ने ‘कीकटाः’ का अर्थ करते हुए लिखा है-
    “अनार्य के देश में रहने वाले मलेच्छ “
    तो पंडित जी अब आप ही फेसला कीजिये कि ये दूसरों का धन लूटने की स्वार्थी प्रार्थना है या नहीं. मैंने केवल एक उदाहरण दिया अन्यथा ऐसी स्वार्थी प्रार्थनाओं के अतिरिक्त वेदों में कुछ और है भी नहीं.
    Reality:
    1. Another shameless act of fraud. Am getting tired and bored countering such stupid allegations now. Perhaps we deserve more intellectual haters.
    2. When it has been clearly established that Anarya means terrorist and the ‘allegators’ have themselves given reference from Nirukta and Swami Dayanand (I am not sure of later source), where is the confusion? you can read here http://agniveer.com/vedas-hatred-2/
    veda saying about terrorist states?

    • @Anti-Agni
      The translation you have given Not Vedic. Whatever teaching as I said not true, universal, eternal not Veda.
      In the Mantra 3/53/14 tells about Amongst the ignorants (Anarya), the cows are not taken care of/nursed, hence, the number of cows does not increase there. Similarly, the good qualities and righteousness does not progress amongst the Anarya. Always refrain from anarya’s act like theft, cowardliness, looting, raping, killing of cow etc., making slave to man/woman, incest, pedophile. Such wrong doer never get to God. (This is a guideline from God)
      Kikat are the countries/towns/ villages like Pakistan, Afganistan etc.. where Anarya resides, Terrorism camp flourished, Animals are killed for tong test. In India also many kikat village exist. USA attacked on Afganistan & Iran to destroy the Anarya like Osama Bin Laden & Saddam Hussain etc. India also follow the same by destroying Anaryas living in pakistan & India.

    • Obtain true translation of Vedas from aryasamajjamnagr.org.And show us where we are wrong.I told it earlier too.But your Quranic brain can’t know it.Your translations are false.

  38. if veda is saying about kikta or anarya then it means there were terrorist satates at the time of veda then from where they have come into existance in no time?

  39. You are group of fool peoples you never try to understand what i am asking. my question is about how could be veda came through first group of peoples if it contains details regarding kikta or anaryan or iran or Afghanistan like countries? how could anaryan peoples grow so much that they have made anaryan countries even vefa are coming and first batch is present ?

  40. God know everything hence he has knowledge of every person.So,he wrote about terrorists in Vedas does not mean that terrorists existed.Ishwar is “Sarvajya”.He is not like allah who is “alpajya”.

  41. @anti-agni
    As per Veda in the inception of universe God creates thousands/lacs of people (Man & Woman). God never supports incest. Incest is unforgivable sin. When this universe get to destruction, God creates the universe again and souls take birth according to their past Karma (Deeds) they did in previous universe. Here Veda Mantra guiding us not to become terrorist/sinner state by doing bad deeds like theft, cowardliness, looting, raping, killing of cow etc., making slave to man/woman, incest, pedophile. Such wrong doer never get to God.
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/02/17/mubahila-the-islamic-cursing-tournament/
    Mubahila: The Islamic Cursing Tournament

  42. Actually there were very less or no terrorist in Vedic times.People at that time knew terrorist like persons can exist due to their higher level of intellect.And God has the highest intellect.So,why to wonder if he has said so. But after time the human beings showed laziness in the study of Vedas and hard work which lead to the destruction of the Vedic era.Now,many persons like muslims due to lack of knowledge of Vedas bombs in Mumbai and are hanged today.Ex.Kasab.
    anti-agni
    Why are all of the terrorists Muslims?

  43. Muhammad did sex with a six year old girl and married to 14 women.
    So,Muhammad was a prosecutor and a demon who killed many persons.

  46. @Vinay Arya
    Yes Instruction can be given. Let us say, Agniveer gives instruction not to write abusive words for woman that does not mean visitors are writing abusive words. This is just instruction from the beginning.

  48. @vinay, niyog k zariye paida hue kamine insaan tu kiya sahi nahi bol sakta..tum logon ke paas jab koi jawab nahi rehta to aisi batein bolne lagte ho ki koi musalman yahan na ruke. par hazrat Muhammad sallalahu alaihi wasallam ko agar abuse karoge to humein ya to tumhein rokna hoga ya yahan se jana hoga.
    Agar himmat h to humare saamne bol. par jaisa moolshankar ne likha h aur tum yahan bolte ho yeh aryasamajiyon k liye musalmano k dil mein dushmanayegi paida karega.
    hazrat Muhammad k bare mein bolte waqt ahtiyat kara karo.

    • @anti-agni
      vyabhichar ke zariye paida hue ve tu kya sahi nahi bol sakataa hai.tum log jab mere dash yaksh prashno ka uttar na de sake to yaha se bhagate phire.
      za be chavanne za!arya samaji bhagvan ki santane hai.hum tujh jaIse cockrocho se kya darenge.aur tum Maharshi Dev Dayanand Saraswati par apani sadi gali juban band karo to hi thik rahega.aur tera muhammad to that bhi nahi.aur muhammad 6 varsh ki ladaki ke sath kukarm kiya karata thaa.aur usake path par chalane waale tere jaise deshdrohi hi ho sakate hai.yadi hiimat hai to mere prashno ka javab de anyatha yaha se tu dafa ho ja.

  49. Garbhwati MAA ne beti se pucha kya chahiye tujhe,?
    Bahan ya bhai….!!
    Beti boli ‘Bhai’.
    Maa; Kis k jaisa?
    Beti: Ravan sa.
    Pita ne dhamkaya, Maa ne ghura, gaali deti hai….?
    Beti boli ‘Q Maa’
    Behan ke apmaan par rajya vansh aur pran luta dene wala…Shatru estri ko harne ke baad bhi sparsh na karne wala…Ravan jaisa bhai hi to har ladki ko chahiye aaj.
    Chaya jaisi sath nibhane wali garbhwati, nirdosh patni ko tyagne wale Maryada Purushottam sa bhai lekar kya karungi main,
    Aur
    Maa, Agni parekcha, 14 baras vanvaas aur Apharan se laanchit bahu ki aahein tum kab tak sunogi aur kab tak Ram ko hi janoge……!!!
    MAA SISAK RAHI THI
    PITA AWAAK THA……..

    • It is a false charge that a great dignitary like Sri Ram, who was a great philosopher of Vedas, listen and agree with dhobis charges. Secondly, Sri Ram never sent Sita to exile. Luv and Kush were born at his palace in Ayodhya.
      During the medieval period India faced many attacks. So, Scripture were corrupted to destroy the culture by foreigners and traitors.
      Valmiki Ramayana (commented by Paramhansa Sh. Jagdishwaranandji Saraswati) Valmikiji states about Sri Ram that Sri Ram was “ved vedang tatvajyenha’ i.e., he was learned of Vedas and in Vedas, maths and science subjects are given in detail.
      As regards Vedas, Vedas describe only knowledge especially three education- i.e., Gyan kand, Karma Kand and Upasana kand. So, there is no story or event in Vedas. Vedas are eternal knowledge.

  50. @anti-agni
    arab me kuch jangali baithe the.
    ek lakkadbagghe jaise dikhne waale aadami ne socha ki vo paigambar banunga aur duniya ko tabah karunga.
    jab muhammad se pucha gaya ki tum shresth dharm kise maanate ho.
    tab vaha lakkadbaggha(muhammad) bola “choti ladkiyo ke sath balatkar karana va kaafiro ki nirdayata purna hatya karana”
    tum log ne lakkadbagghe se kaha “tum to rakshas ho”
    tab muhammad ne kaha “meri iijat karane ke liye dhanyavad.
    isase siddh hota hai ki muhammad ek chor,daku,pakhandi,vyabhichari,atankavadi tha.aisa logo ko hindu bahine kabhi apana bhai nahi banayenge.hindu bahine hamesha Bhagvan Shri Ram jaisa hi bhai banana chahengi.
    “Give answers to my ten question”.

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