Brahmin, Shudra….I don’t care

Brahmin,-Shudra....I-don't-care

 

 

 

If I were to pinpoint the most foolish innovation of evolved human mind, it would be caste system.

Don’t take me wrong. I don’t imply caste system is the worst evil. I consider slavery, racism, kafir to be even more despicable notions. To enslave someone as property because he or she is of a darker color is sign of savagery. It doesn’t qualify to be even termed ‘human’.

Similarly to believe that people who refuse to believe in my book, my concepts, my prophet are kafirs or worst of creatures or will go to hell, again is brutal tribal mindset. It does not represent evolved thinking. Thus what USA was doing before 1865 or what Al Qaeda and Taliban mindset is doing even today, does not even come under purview of “evolved human mind”. These are just animal behavior.

So if I were to restrict myself to more “refined” set of innovations, caste system stands miles above all. A mathematically flawed, unverifiable, prejudiced concept that has no logical basis whatsoever as well as is against Vedas – the source of Hinduism. Yet, this foolish innovation has contributed the most to damage of the otherwise glorious culture of this great land. Instead of being a wolf that brutally attacks, it has been like a vampire that sucks away the blood while we remain asleep.

I have already written in length on how this foolish innovation is against the very tenets of Vedas – the source-book of Hinduism. I have also discussed how this has been the prime culprit for our slavery and all atrocities we have faced as a society or country. And how this is the greatest stigma on the brilliant face of our civilization. (refer http://agniveer.com/the-reality-of-caste-system/ )

In this article, we would look at a few inherent flaws in the basic premise of caste system.

1. Caste system necessarily segregates each human into one of the 4 buckets – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra. This is like a multiple choice question set by a naive.

It does not have an option to choose anything beyond the 4 irrelevant choices. Further there is penalty of becoming outcaste if you dare to do so. Hence, an irrational answer is chosen as per whims of the decision maker.

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

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Reality:

In reality, the 4 castes are actually called Varnas (which means choice) in Vedas. They are part of a model to explain human behavior so that necessary steps for structuring of society in sensible manner can be taken. All scientific innovations begin from certain models which are further analyzed, enhanced and utilized to generate worthwhile outputs. For example, concept of mass, weight, speed, acceleration are basis to model complex mechanics and derive benefits. Vedas also suggest several such modeling elements, and Varna system is one of the many.

As per Vedas, these 4 Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra represent 4 basic properties.Various human behaviors can be explained in form of different combinations of these basic properties. These vary at every point in time in same individual as well as vary as per the field of investigation being chosen.

The concept is similar to the CMYK model used in printing to generate different colors. The Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black colors defined at each point on the paper generate all kinds of images we see in magazines and photographs. Just imagine how foolish you would consider me if I show you a random photograph of some person, and demand you to answer whether the picture is Cyan, Magenta, Yellow or Black! If I do it with everyone in my colony, perhaps they would together lodge complaint to have me treated in mental hospital in public interest! In case of caste system, this insanity has been tolerated in our colony for ages leading to havoc.

2. Going a step ahead on previous point, the harsh reality is that caste system has never been restricted to these 4 Varnas alone. As explained earlier, because of restrictions in freely looking at sensible options beyond the 4 castes model and combinations of these castes, people were forced to create a complex web of castes, sub-castes, sub-sub-castes and so on. So even among Brahmins, there are high caste Brahmins and low caste Brahmins. If you go to Varanasi to learn Vedas, the high caste Brahmins will refuse unless you belong to a high caste Brahmin family.

Even among so-called low caste Dalits and Shudras, there are high caste Dalits and low caste Dalits. A Yadav will claim to be higher than Bishnoi and Bishnoi will claim to be higher than Yadav. Yet each will fight to be included in OBC or SC/ST list. There is a Dassa Agarwal and Bissa Agarwal and each claim to be superior. There is a Prajapati which will sometimes call itself Vaishya and sometimes a Shudra.Even Muslims and Christians have hundreds of castes, sub-castes, high castes and low castes. So currently we have thousands of such frivolous classifications and we all take pride in belonging to our own classification by birth. We fight for special rights for our own sub-sub-sub-….sub-castes.

One foolish concept has led to such a complex ecosystem of even more foolish caste-network that keeps building up. That is why I call it a foolish innovation.

If we go back to the scriptures that are blamed for starting this mess, there is not even a remote reference to such complex classifications. And hence there is total chaos in matters of social rights and status of these thousand innovatively foolish sub-sub-sub…sub-castes.

In case we are humble enough to go back to original source – the Vedas – they clearly assert – There is only ONE caste – Humanity. All humans have same rights irrespective of their birth. What status a human achieves must solely be based on his or her merit and NOTHING else. 

3. Some wisest fools give reference from scriptures that Brahmins came from mouth of God, Kshatriya from hands, Vaishya from tummy and Shudra from legs. And hence caste system is birth-based. We have already analyzed this reference in great details.

But let us now evaluate how flawed this entire hallucination is.

Did God also give a certificate while throwing a Brahmin out of the mouth and Shudra out of the feet? Or did he put a tag for verification to prevent piracy? The most basic documents have this feature. Why was God unintelligent enough to miss this?

If he was not, what method do we have in place to verify whether a person who is claiming to be a Brahmin is indeed a Brahmin? Does he have a DNA test certificate that he or she is biological progeny of the first Brahmin who were spitted out of the mouth of God at inception of civilization millions of years ago?

If not, why do we believe so? Being a Brahmin gives you superior rights. So obviously there is a natural incentive for a dishonest person to claim being a Brahmin. Don’t we see the number of fake certificates and fake currency being printed from corrupt places in country?

The hard fact is that there is no way to verify whether a Brahmin of today is indeed a progeny of someone who was Brahmin even 200 years ago, forget about millions of years. The very concept of ID proofs has come today, and even that is being faked. The probability of a Brahmin of today being actually a progeny of Brahmin at inception of civilization is extremely minimal. In same vein, probability of a ‘Dalit’ being progeny of a ‘Dalit’ at inception of civilization is even more minimal.

The same argument goes for every caste.

Hence the caste system has nothing divine in it. If it were divine, there would have been obvious ways to conclusively verify the same. For example, it is easy to verify whether someone is human or an animal (I am excluding those cases where humans conduct beastly deeds). It is easy to verify whether someone is dog or pigeon.

That being not the case, caste system is at best a human innovation. Very primitive minds divide everything in binary – good, bad; black, white etc. More evolved minds add more choices. However a fertile mind would embrace the fact that there is a continuum and any classification is merely an approximation. As mind power increases, you start using more complex models to explain the world.

So as babies we learn addition and subtraction by drawing lines and counting them, then we learn arithmetic, then algebra. And really smart ones understand calculus. To find area of square and rectangle, algebra would do. But to find volume of sphere, you need to learn calculus. To try to use formula of cube to find volume of sphere, because as per your book formula of cube is divine, will at best be called foolish dogmatism.

Let us be more honest. Caste System is a baseless, unverifiable, whimsical innovation. All we can say about a person is that he or she is a person. Any claim on his caste will only be a blind assertion. 

4. No one knows in which caste to put 6 billion non-Hindu population of the world. When someone embraces Hinduism, fools debate on whether the person should be considered a Brahmin or Shudra. People like Stephen Knapp – who have contributed more to Hinduism than bigoted casteist pundits was denied entry in Puri temple because he was not born as a Hindu.

Some call such people Mleccha.

The reality however is that these Mlecchas have demonstrated more intelligence and vision than all the caste-loving pundits of Kashi put together. They have brought more researches, innovations, inventions and discoveries and even the books of casteists need to use printing technology or internet invented by these outcastes!

So either these Mlecchas are the real Brahmins or God better make entire world Mleccha or outcaste. 

India became enslaved because of this foolish birth-based casteism that ensured that a person can become outcaste for most frivolous reason, but there is no mechanism for such person to become a respectable Hindu again. Hence we see Kashmir, Pakistan and Bangladesh becoming our headache.

5. Some modern thinkers claim that caste is based on actions and nature but not on birth. Others say that in special situations, one can change the caste. Both these arguments are flawed. Because both of them demand existence of a third-party certification agency that allocates caste. But since spiritualism is directly between me and my God, who are these third-party agents to certify how I should follow my God’s voice? And who will decide caste of these certifying agents?

Further, in primitive society, may be it was easy to bucket each individual into one of the 4 castes. Because professions were simple. However it is impossible to do so today due to complexities. A 4 part classification is too crude and elementary. For example, what is caste of software engineer? What is caste of computer technician? What is caste of anti-virus maker who fights against cyber attacks? What is caste of ecommerce platform developer? What is caste of a paid project manager?

Only a person who did not study mathematics seriously would try to fit in an approximate classification just because it is written in some obscure book, as narrated by some apologetics. An honest person would simply say, they are all humans. And each moment, they take one or more roles of being a brahmin (knowledge-oriented), kshatriya (defence oriented), vaishya (economy oriented) or shudra (task oriented).

6. Some defend it by saying this is foundation of Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma. They refer to history and Purush Sukta. As for history, that does not hold water. There are many things we do that we never did in history. And there are many things we did in history that we ourselves gladly rejected as evil. For example, polygamy and dynastic rule.

As for Purush Sukta, we have already analyzed its real meaning in http://agniveer.com/vedas-caste-discrimination/ . Also, we forget that Vedas provide hundreds of models, and if we are not able to understand one model properly, we better adopt some other model.

If you don’t know how to fly a supersonic, you would reach faster on a horse. And if you know how you fly a supersonic, you don’t insist on donkey for historical or “scriptural” reasons. You need not even learn to ride a horse to fly a supersonic.

So let us get rid of this foolish dogmatism. Let us eradicate this caste system from very root. Let us stop trying to defend a primitive model of caste-classification in any way. Let us be honest to Vedas – the root of Hinduism. Let us realize that there is nothing Hindu or Vedic about caste system. In fact, caste system is the most anti-Vedic or anti-Hindu concept.

The West was worse than animals till 1865 when slavery was banned. They then decided to look afresh. They did not try to glorify their ignominious past. In fact they repented for it. And hence today, they are the world-leaders.

If we want to be world-leaders as well, let us also humbly accept this blunder of ours. Let destruction of caste system be the number 1 priority.

Let we become One India, One Society, One Caste and let merit alone decide who achieves what.

If we do not do so, we would continue to remain the most queer society of world – that is so intelligent and yet so tormented. And if we are able to destroy this foolish innovation from roots, we would be unstoppable.

Say No to Caste System and Unleash the Legend Within.

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

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Comments

  1. says

    This is my understanding of the caste – hope the author of this article will agree with mehttp://memanya.blogspot.in/2012/09/what-actually-our-caste-system-was-and.html

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

        • says

          UPPER CASTE CAN SELL THE BELOW n BECOME RICHEST IN THE WORLD but did not do so…bcos for us welfare of the people comes first.
          ==================================================
          Keep in mind People WOLRD_WIDE use these FREE OF COST….
          1.ZERO(the concept of nothingness) – was invented by UPPER CASTE
          2.NUMBER SYSTEM(proven better than Roman’s) – by UPPER CASTE
          3.ASTROLOGY(which NASA refers today also) – by UPPER CASTE
          4.AYURVEDA(science of medicine) – by UPPER CASTE
          5.YOGA(science of health) – by UPPER CASTE
          6.METALLURGY(science of metals) – by UPPER CASTE
          7.PLASTIC SURGERY(science of operation) – by UPPER CASTE
          8.ARITHEMATIC(pure mathematics) – by UPPER CASTE
          9.ECONOMICS(artha-shashtra) – by UPPER CASTE
          10. VIMAN Shashtra(aeroplane science) – by UPPER CASTE
          11. SANSKRIT(Language/ script) – by UPPER CASTE
          to name a few and so many other which even I am not aware of.
          —– all done by HALF-NAKED(bcos of Indian climate that is considered best costume).

          • vinod says

            there is nothing surprising in it. In those days no other cast was allowed to do such academic work. What is the cast of Einstein, Schrodinger, Mullikan, Hargovind Khurana, Vikram Sarabhai, Homi Bhabha ,Sam Pitroda and other n number of sciientists , engineers and technologist ?
            In my openion they do not claim to belong to any caste. They are simply noble kind of humans.
            Let us learn some thing from such people. I do regard the people related to the list given by you.

  2. says

    This is my understanding of the caste system hope the author of this article will agree with mehttp://memanya.blogspot.in/2012/09/what-actually-our-caste-system-was-and.html

  3. says

    Story from mahabharata which tells us that our Gods never supported untouchabilityhttp://memanya.blogspot.in/2012/07/example-from-epic-story-mahabharata.html

    • Amit says

      But there is Eklavya incident in Mahabharta that tells a different story. Eklavya was frm bheel jaati and was refused from learning from Guru Dronacharya.

      • Ankur says

        @Amit and look what happend to dronacharya in mahabharata , slaughtered !!!! what he did was wrong and he got what he deserved. he thought that he was better than Arjun, he had no other pretext to refuse he for which he has been criticized in history. besides is what dronacharya did a stardard by any chance?

        • Amit says

          @Ankur, ok I agree Dronacharya was slaughtered but my point is discrimination was always there. And we have a reputed award on the name of Guru Dronacharya.

          • Puneet says

            Brother Amit Dronacharya refuses Eklavya because he says he taught to person Who are from Aristocrats family means only sons of king …

          • Praveen says

            @Amit, Ekalavya, as everyone believes was not born in the lowest caste. He was Krishna’s younger brother. Krishna’s biological father Vasudeva had a borther and Ekalavya was his son. So Krishna and Ekalavya were brothers.
            But Ekalavya acquired all cruel characteristics as he grew and Krishna very well knew of his bad deeds. In one instance Krishna tells Arjuna that it was he (Krishna) who made Dronacharya ask for Ekalavya’s thumb as guru dakshina. That’s the reason why Krishna asks Arjuna to kill Ekalavya in the battlefield despite the latter being his brother.
            Next, Dronacharya did not do discrimination based on caste but on social status. He was a very well-versed brahmin (must have had ego) and had decided to train only Raajaputras (royal family members). That was his ethics. Also, Dronacharya must have had some fear that one day Ekalavya might become better in archery than his pet student Arjuna. That’s the reason why he rejected him.

        • Amit says

          @Puneet-
          Brother but it is mentioned that he refused because Eklavya was from bheel jaati.
          Also bheel jati is mentioned in Ramayana where Shri Ram ate BER from a bhilini. This event is glorified because bheel jati was considered as low cast.

          • Ankur says

            @Amit : so what is your point ? Dronacharya is not some great person or authority on Vedas or any other thing, Krishna was who ? he was a guwala, and he uttered the bhagwat Geeta, and is known as the authority on yoga and sankya shastras, so stop your idiosyncrasies.

          • Ankur says

            @Amit : what matters, is what you are capable of and what is ones worth, there are thousands of examples where people have moved across varnas due to their worth, don’t know why you are stuck with one.

          • Amit says

            @Ankur
            First of all read my comments, I have not mentioned Krishna anywhere, I dont know why r u falling far from the topic. I was replying to Manya’s comment “Story from mahabharata which tells us that our Gods never supported untouchability “. There are examples in Mahabharta and Ramayana. So please stick to the topic.

          • Ankur says

            @Amit : i think you are not able to understand the Analogy.
            krishn vs eklayva and krishn vs Dronacharya
            besides Krishn is a part of mahabharat.! i am on the topic just not the way that affirms your view point.

      • himanshu says

        Guru Drona refused to teach Eklavya as he was visionary enough to see that Eklavya’s loyalty was to the King Of Magadh which was a opponent of Hastinapura and thus he did not want to impart skills which in future would counter to the freedom and integrity of the empire to whom his loyalty belonged and committed.

        His refusal was distorted under the light of ‘Jaati Bhedbhaav’ as average humans cannot interpret visionary rationals so easily.

        Several versions of Mahabharat have been prodcued by far, so just to trust one and applying our present day capability of intellect to judge situations and decisions in that epoch is absolutely unjustified and unacceptable.

  4. Malhar says

    I liked this article. Just one small correction- Anti-Racist laws were passed in US only in 1965 not in 1865. The first president had over 300 slaves.

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

  5. Malhar says

    A few more ‘Mlecchas’ who have contributed more than the ‘Benarasi Brahmins’ to Hindu Cause- Francois Gautier, Koenrad Elst, A.C. Srila Prabhupada, David Frawley.

  6. Malhar says

    A few more ‘mlecchas’ who have contributed more than all Brahmins of Benares to the Hindu Cause- Francois Gautier, Koenrad Elst, Swami Prabhuda, Sister Nivedita and David Frawley. As a Hindu, I am grateful to these people.

    • says

      UPPER CASTE CAN SELL THE BELOW n BECOME RICHEST IN THE WORLD but did not do so…bcos for us welfare of the people comes first.
      ==================================================
      Keep in mind People WOLRD_WIDE use these FREE OF COST….
      1.ZERO(the concept of nothingness) – was invented by UPPER CASTE
      2.NUMBER SYSTEM(proven better than Roman’s) – by UPPER CASTE
      3.ASTROLOGY(which NASA refers today also) – by UPPER CASTE
      4.AYURVEDA(science of medicine) – by UPPER CASTE
      5.YOGA(science of health) – by UPPER CASTE
      6.METALLURGY(science of metals) – by UPPER CASTE
      7.PLASTIC SURGERY(science of operation) – by UPPER CASTE
      8.ARITHEMATIC(pure mathematics) – by UPPER CASTE
      9.ECONOMICS(artha-shashtra) – by UPPER CASTE
      10. VIMAN Shashtra(aeroplane science) – by UPPER CASTE
      11. SANSKRIT(Language/ script) – by UPPER CASTE
      to name a few and so many other which even I am not aware of.
      —– all done by HALF-NAKED(bcos of Indian climate that is considered best costume).

      • gopal says

        Dear Praveen, All the personalities you have mentioned here were great not because they belonged to Upper castes. Actually It is other way round, they are respected & called Pandits bcoz they contributed to the society through their inventions.

  7. Satyaveer says

    Sadhu Agniveer Sir, Sadhu!
    These articles are constant slaps to the perverted minds, who justify slavery, death for apostasy, caste system, polygamy and other miserable items as divine based on few dogmas and books. We beg of you, never to stop writing these.
    Every human has ‘right’ to be whatever he likes to be and whomsoever he wants to follow. We certainly cannot change the past but can better the future and I hope we will be able to prevent this disease from touching the forthcoming generations. I convinced many of my friends with the help of your articles that caste-system is utterly wrong and we all [humans] are equals. A friend of mine who thought he belonged to SC, hugged me tightly after this and thanked me.
    Noble, evolved and rational minds will always be with you as your Iron, Agniveer Sir.
    Namaste

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

  8. Umakant Dubey says

    The way to do away with the caste system is not via discussing about it..or via reservation….Go try and progate Hinduisim….I promise you caste system will vanish…..Each member of a caste is self accalaimed ….that acclaim will vanish once try propagating Faith…….
    DHARM KI JAI HO……ADHARM KA NAASH HO…..PANTH KA PRASAAR HO…….JAI SHREE RAM
    MAIN BRAHMIN ISLIYE HOON KYUNKI MAIN YEH KARMA KARTA HOON……OUR MERA YAKIIN MANIYEE AAAP SAB MUJHSE SHRESTH HAIN …KYUN KI ABHI AAP APANI JIMMEDARI SE ANABHIGYA HAIN TO AAP USKA PALAN NAHI KAR PATE TOH ISMEIN AAP KA DOSH NAHI HAI….LEKIN MAIN APANI IS JIMMEDAARI KO JANTAA HOON….PHIR BHI ABHI UTNA NAHI KAR PAA RAHAA JITNA AAVASHYAK HAI……
    PHIR BHI MERA PRAYAAS JAARI HAI…….
    DHARM KI JAI HO……ADHARM KA NAASH HO…..PANTH KA PRASAAR HO…….JAI SHREE RAM

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

  9. says

    I totally agree the Varna categorisation is a mere work of people tendency science, and should no way be used in order to gain any undue advantage in education/employment or any opportunity. Every man should have equal opportunity to participate in any social, economic or academic activity.

    Yet in the matters like marriage, family, running of household, or to follow ones own variation of worship method (remember, any and all kinds of worship methods are acceptable to god as long as they are from the devotee’s heart), it is indeed useful/advantageous if we keep ourselves to the community/sampradaya that we feel is ‘ours’. This, again, is only a matter of convenience and to avoid conflict of interests (e.g. if I’m devoted to Sai Baba, there will be less conflicts if my wife is a Sai Baba devotee as well). This is no way a discrimination nor a strict mandate to follow.

    • Slave of prophat and Allah says

      @Agniveer
      You can not make the fool people by writing such articles. A Brahmin can not marry his daughter with a Shudra. Your Moolashankar also discriminating with the people on caste basis and advising the upper-cast people not to take food with Muslims & shudra. Only islam is the solution of caste system.

      • says

        If I go to a fruit shop, buy apples and not bananas, it doesn’t mean i’m discriminating against banana. It just means apple is my choice. Brahmin, Shudra, Muslim, all are only categories of people who follow certain pattern in their life styles. While in a society at large all of them are necessary, in micro levels like family, marriage and conduct of regular households, everyone is free to make choices. The decision to not have food in Shudras’ or Muslims’ home is to avoid tamasik food such as meat. I have attended muslim and shudra weddings where my food choice was respected and I was not provided with food :-) I don’t think there is only one solution for all problems. Since you mentioned Islam as a solution, I have a question, which Islam? There are so many varieties (Ashrafi, Ajlafi, Shia, Sunni,…), each claiming theirs is the only correct version, and in some rare extreme cases, each trying to destroy everything else! So I’m not convinced Islam is a solution for any kind of discrimination.

      • sharma says

        These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
        or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

  10. Slave of prophat and Allah says

    @K. V.
    Hinduism is source of all terrorism in India not Muslims it is revealed by Indian home ministry also. RSS and BJP have Hindu terrorists training camps. Many upper caste Hindu and brahimns have made a propaganda all around the world that meat eating is not good and call it “tamsik” food. By this you are people hurting and insulting all the muslims all around the world and our prophet Mohammad (PBUH). This is also a kind of terrorism. Islamic scripture always advocate the people to take meat to keep the body fit and healthy. Islam is a natural way of life.

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

    • vinsin says

      Why Hinduism not source of terror around the world? Why Hindus then eat meat if they are propagating it is bad? Islam doesnt say that you have to eat meat to be a Muslims. If Islam is natural way of life then why Muslims depend on kafir for survival. Why contribution of Muslims is zero in the world we live in?

      Have you filed a case against terrorist camps of BJP/RSS? What is the purpose of those training camps?
      What Muslims are doing in India after partition? are Muslims immoral? Why Muslims beg for reservation from non-muslisms?

  11. Malhar says

    @slave of sex pervert/ rapist/ murderer/ …… Several members of my family have married so called ‘shudras’. My cousin is going to marry an ST. Keep this shit to yourself.

    • sharma says

      These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
      or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

  12. Malhar says

    Once a Pakistani told an Arab ” Remember the glorius days when we ruled spain?”. The Arab started laughing and said ” When did you Hindus ruled spain?”.

  13. Malhar says

    As far as Hindu Terrorism is concerned, let the charges be proven in a court. Till date no charge has been proven against Sadhvi Pragya and Swami Assemanand. NIA arrested an RSS worker before Bihar elections another before UP elections another before Gujarat elections(during R. Malik’s visit). Remember “a person is innocent till proven guilty”.

      • says

        Mr. Allah,
        Why not read Quran in HINDI and try to understand yourself? You will be surprised
        In Quran its clearly mentioned that prophet does not know who is god and asks to refer to other powers existing.
        => In Mecca(earlier MECCESHWARA) you worshiped idols(360 idols). Where are they? Check back
        => Mecca had Lord SHIVA LINGA,,,why it is broken ? ask your people in Saudi

    • says

      UPPER CASTE CAN SELL THE BELOW n BECOME RICHEST IN THE WORLD but did not do so…bcos for us welfare of the people comes first.
      ==================================================
      Keep in mind People WOLRD_WIDE use these FREE OF COST….
      1.ZERO(the concept of nothingness) – was invented by UPPER CASTE
      2.NUMBER SYSTEM(proven better than Roman’s) – by UPPER CASTE
      3.ASTROLOGY(which NASA refers today also) – by UPPER CASTE
      4.AYURVEDA(science of medicine) – by UPPER CASTE
      5.YOGA(science of health) – by UPPER CASTE
      6.METALLURGY(science of metals) – by UPPER CASTE
      7.PLASTIC SURGERY(science of operation) – by UPPER CASTE
      8.ARITHEMATIC(pure mathematics) – by UPPER CASTE
      9.ECONOMICS(artha-shashtra) – by UPPER CASTE
      10. VIMAN Shashtra(aeroplane science) – by UPPER CASTE
      11. SANSKRIT(Language/ script) – by UPPER CASTE
      to name a few and so many other which even I am not aware of.
      —– all done by HALF-NAKED(bcos of Indian climate that is considered best costume).

  14. Malhar says

    @slave Perhaps you did not undestand what I said earlier. A Person is innocent until proven guilty. It has become a habit of Congress to keep on muttering against Hindu Organisations. After Independence, they had undertaken a vicious propaganda against ABHMS and Savarkar was publically humiliated. RSS was banned. Later on the court aquitted Savarkar. Savarkar became the only freedom fighter who went to jail both before and after independence. Ban on RSS was also lifted.

  15. Malhar says

    Last time they arrested a ‘Hindu Terrorist’ was before UP elections. After the elections were over, the court questioned the NIA about the basis of their arrest and why were they unable to file a charge-sheet even after 6 months of arrest (acc’ng 2 Cr.P.C. a Charge sheet has to be filed within 3 months).

  16. Malhar says

    NIA had to let the ‘Hindu Terrorist’ go. INC has become a Circus and is the sewer of Indian Politics. A stupid politician who kept the whole state of MP im the most desolate state and was thrown out by the people ten years ago has found a permanent job to vilify RSS. A Home Minister who is a disgrace to the office once held by Patelji said,”We have reports that RSS, BJP run Terror camps” it sound that he had some intelligence from NIA, ATS, etc. But then he said that what he had said was acc’ng to MEDIA ‘reports’. A person can be called a terrorist ONLY when he has been proved guilty.

  17. Malhar says

    If you want to get RSS Banned, then go to a court, prove that RSS is a terrorist organisation, and get it banned. Simple. Don’t waste your time here.

    • Slave of prophat and Allah says

      @Malhar
      Banning Agniveer and RSS is not the solution of problem. Because til Hindu exist such organisation will remained that is why prophet made a law non-muslim should not be allowed to live because they are followers of wrong religion and they will stand against prophet and Islamic ideology.

      • Malhar says

        @slave I think that we shall stop our discussion here itself. There is nothing that is debatable with you people.
        I will just quote the Jewish Nobel Laureate, Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel- “If anuone says that he wants to kill you, believe him.”

      • amna sheikh says

        @slave: now you have proved that your religions tells to spread terrorism and hence you all are terrorists. it is proved now and world can take a clean-up action without any problem. Ladies are just wanting to move out of this cult and get a free life. But, these bearded people are alike and will never understand a woman’s aspirations.

        • Slave of Prophet says

          @amna sheikh
          Islam gives highest respect to woman. At the time of Nikah/marriage permission of bride compulsory. And woman get all rights over property after death of husband.

  18. Slave of prophat and Allah says

    Quran is only true book of world. It is free from any adulteration and error. Quran is most scientific book of the world.

    • says

      Hey Sopaa… you there? I hoped you would reply me. If you are unable to answer, I am free to conclude you are just an ignorant mis-guided person who has run away from even a friendly debate.

      • Truth teller says

        @Slave of prophat and Allah
        Quran is the rubbish book i ever read in life.
        It sucks.

        Dont blame anyone’s religion without analysing ur own religion, you bonehead.
        They are trying to minimise Caste system so why are you creating obstacles ?Peoples tells right Islam is a destructive religion,(You peoples are good for nothing).

  19. Karthikeyan V says

    @sopaas You have not answered me and strayed away. I never told Hinduism is the only solution to all problems. There are problems in Hinduism that are topic of hindu internal debate and will be so forever. You suggested Islam id’s the solution. Now provide proof for it by answering my objections. You are giving me a product that you claim will be good for me. Then it is your responsibility to prove its appropriateness to me.

  20. sharma says

    These all books Geeta, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib are written by someone and shows that writers mental position, no book comes from heaven or any where because nobody can prove that there was a printing press or this book comes by any transport or with someone. Main thing is that International powers have destroyed Pakistan and many other Muslim countries and now like to finish India through our political system. These present Leaders in India are controlled by UK and USA. and no body have power to stop them,
    or they dont want to stop them for their own benift.

    • Karthikeyan V says

      With all respect I request you to give your original relevant thoughts. Please don’t paste the same content over and over again. Your point is heard, understood and agreed.

  21. Karthikeyan V says

    And by promoting vegetarianism, I’m promoting well being of all lives, ecosystem and environment. This you may call a conflict of interest, not an insult to those who eat meat. If I can’t even suggest environmental well being too a Muslim, then it is arrogance, not basic right. How can anyone afford such arrogance?

  22. Karthikeyan V says

    Tamasik diet is no way wrong or inferior. We need all 3 gunas in a society. Tamasik food is only not ‘the best’ choice for those people who wish to advance in spiritual path. Note that meat is not the only tamasik food, there are veggie tamasik food as well. If a person has uncontrollable rajas, tamasik food may still be a prescription for him, but meat is still not recommended due to various environmental and humanitarian reasons.

  23. Malhar says

    @Sharma, stop mumbling conspiracy theories. Muslim countries are failed states bcoz of their own reasons. The successes or failures of a country are because of the leadership of the country. You yourself think that why is Gujarat so developed whereas other states are in such a desolate state. Lastly – Please stop spamming.

  24. Mani says

    I don’t agree with this editor regarding the evil of Hindu Caste System. If anyone think logically, till 100 years back, this caste system in Hindu Religion was one the best system that ever God had created, which were helping the Hindus economically, socially and politically to remain stable. I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT TIME HAS COME TO DEMOLISH THIS CASTE SYSTEM AS IT HAS FINISHED SERVING ITS TIME PERIOD.

    I am Hindu, OBC caste from Maharashtra and I also used to blame the caste system before because of lack of knowledge about it, but not now. But definitely yes time has come to demolish this caste system as it has finished serving its time period. I believe that this Caste system is the one of the best system politically, economically as well as socially in world as compared to dictatorship, communist, Sharia or liberal democracy. Caste system is actually the ABSOLUTE POWER distributed into four classes of human being, but also it was made sure that no one class of people will have all these above 4 powers because they will become corrupt and that is what had happened now since from last 1000 years. First power is education given to Brahmins, Second power Weapon given to Kshatriyas, Third power Wealth/Money given to Vaishas and 4th power Land given to Shudras. Brahamins are not allowed to have weapon, wealth or land and vice versa for other category too. The caste system used to forced Brahmin the true intellectual to spread knowledge and wisdom to others in return of “Biksha”. Brahmins were not allowed to own any money or property, but were given biggest status, Kshatriyas used to save the citizens, Vaishas used to run the economy by manufacturing/producing all the goods needed for human being from birth to death and Sudras were mostly employed in irrigation. The system was made such that Kshatriya Kings used to listen to Brahmin for making any policy for welfare of people with more transparency and accountability. Also due to caste system, maximum of the citizens were guaranteed employment as people used to get skilled in their hereditary work and were getting some skill to employ themselves. But as the time passed, the caste system got corrupt and today it is out of context so it now better to demolish as it had finished its purpose of serving humanity till now.

    • Arun says

      We must understand that Caste is not a word from Hinduism or India. It is from the Portuguese Casta. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta Part of the problem is that Indians themselves mix the European concept of caste with Varna and Jati. Varna is not hereditary and it only categorizes certain job functions together – like blue collar versus white collar jobs. Jati is good, it is community which gives strength to individuals and upholds cultural diversity in the land. What is a problem is inherited class status, Caste. That should go without replacing it with reverse discrimination. When we tackle caste we should understand how each word (casta/inherited class status, varna, jatii) is different and hold different concepts. We should also be clear that caste is neither Indian nor Hindu. That is not to say we have done right by our fellow Indians. Indians have been discriminated against end based on class status and this is wrong and must change. We need to be more caring and loving to one another. But too often this necessary reform of class discrimination has been used by outsiders to destroy and discredit Hinduism and by extension India, and that also is also wrong. Class discrimination and inherited class status was never only in India. It exists and existed everywhere, but has been falsely portrayed as only India’s problem.

      • Ankur says

        @Arun : to start with we should start using the actual words rather than their loosely and vaguely related English counterparts e.g souls is not the same as Atma, Murti is not the same as idol, as of course varna is not the same as Caste. so as long as we as Bharatiyas don’t take the initiative of using the correct vocabulary, the rest of the world would understand what they understand of the word(s), that we as Bharatiyas are misusing and misplacing.

        • Arun says

          Exactly. But I would say the misuse of words came from Europeans, that we Indians continues without question or correction. The Portuguese projected their concept of Casta to India. It is not me who said this, I have read it in Western books. There is no Hindu caste system. There is only non hereditary Varna in the religion. That is not to say Indians have not in general society discriminated against other Indians on class status. That was there but that is not due to the religion itself having a inherited class system. That distinction has not been clear to either Hindus or others resulting in Hinduism being blamed for inherited class status when where it occured in India is due to the people not the faith. In addition inherited class status existed and still exists all around the world. The most blatant example of inherited class status is monarchy which many countries in Europe still have. Even the idea that professional groups restricted entrance into the field was never unique to India. It occurred every where prior to universal education.

          There are countless jatis which are communities. It is these unique communities that people are born into, not Varna. There is nothing wrong with community. The only issue is if these communities are placed in a hierarchy. But the problem is not the community but the hierarchy. It is placing the communities in a hierarchy that must go not the communities which are good and supportive to individual and adds to the richness of diversity.

          So it is important to have a clear understanding of these words and where they come from.

        • Arun says

          This is an interesting article on the impact of Britain attempts to classify different jatis into a class status, and how Indians petitioned to change their ranking in the British stats. “…Thus, it appears that the [British] census system had become self reinforcing….” It acknowledges both that caste is a foreign Portuguese word. It is wrong in stating that Casts only had racial connotations starting from the 19th century when in fact the whole purpose of Portuguese Casta was to classify groups of people in a permanent hierarchy based on the racial composition of how much European, or Native American or African blood they had. Also problematic but not surprising is that though the article acknowledges both the foreign word caste and that there was an impact of the British census on determining class status of a Jati it still talks about caste as if it is an Indian thing. What they should write instead of the word caste is either Jati or Varna or use the generic term class status when writing about India and Hinduism.

          • Arun says

            The complete sentence should have been “…It acknowledges both that caste is a foreign Portuguese word and that the British census had an impact on determining class status of Jatis which could be petitioned to be changed….”

          • Ankur says

            @Arun: we cannot hold an individual of non-bharatiya origin accountable for the incorrect usage of the vocabulary,its us who have to correct it within us and and around us, and believe me, it just a matte of One Generation, if reforms and enrichment is carried out within ourself w.r.t to knowing the right/true history/scripture(veda) and passing on the same to the next generation, we will see a nation whose glory cannot be left unseen or unsung within our lifetime, It has to be a chain propagation at peer level
            Aum

          • Arun says

            I agree it is we who have to educate ourselves. that Europeans first incorrctly projected the Portuguese derived word of Caste and its concept on to India and Hinduism muddling the true meaning of Varna and understanding of Jati should not stop us from now knowing better. But part of that better understanding and education is knowing how it began to be distorted and part though not all of that history involves European actions.

  25. Rishika says

    A smritis, or code of conduct composed by sage Atri defines brahmin:

    “By birth, every man is a Shudra (an ignorant person). Through various types of disciplines (samskaras), he becomes a dwija (twice born). Through the studies of scriptures, he becomes a vipra (or a scholar). Through realization of supreme spirit (brahmajnana), he becomes a brahmin.

    Brahmin was a person who had attained highest spiritual knowledge (brahmavidya). This was an extremely difficult path of discipline of body, mind , and intellect, and people irrespective of their birth or class, who dedicated to such an austere life were recognized as brahmins.

    A great example of this tradition (that a person becoming a brahmin, rather than born as one) is the case of Vishwamitra, a warrior (kshatriya), who became a brahmin after attaining brahmavidya, and composed the Gayatri mantra, the most sacred hymn of the Hindus.

  26. Rishika says

    If you still believe in old Indian caste system, here is very good video that describes “Worth, not birth, decides your position on this earth” from ‘Upanishad Ganga’ – Episode 18.
    Enjoy it on this link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hehPjAJynr4

    When your mind is elevated, even you have attained a very simple spiritual knowledge, you will see HIS presence everywhere in every living beings.

    • Arun says

      Then real old Indian system was as many have been saying here never “caste” but what is described in the video.

  27. Arun says

    “To enslave someone as property because he or she is of a darker color is sign of savagery”

    Just to inform you slavery is not only of darker skinned people by the lighter skinned. For centuries Europeans were enslaved by darker skinned Middle Easterners. It is not as well known as the slave trade of Africans is but it was significant. http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves07.htm

    And what is also little known about is the enslavement of our own people by Islamic invaders who were then sent off to Middle Eastern slave markets. The Hindu Kush got its name by the number of enslaved Hindus who died on route to the Middle East. Google Hindu Slaves or enslavement.

  28. mahesh says

    Comments in the posts have degraded to only bashing and irrelevant. its high time you moderate and allow only technically relevant posts.

    thanks
    a fan

  29. krishnarao says

    look at the name you gave yourself dumbass. your name slave of prophet states you are a slave of a prophet not a slave of a god. LOL. Go be a slave of a man you retard. That is the problem thinking you are a slave. You start considering yourself a slave of a person also dumbshit.

  30. Slave of Prophet says

    @Krishnarao

    Dear we Muslim are slave of prophet (PBUH) not Allah. We are devotee/worshiper of Allah. Allah is our God while prophet is master. Prophet was not a ordinary man. He was messenger of Allah. He set right examples before the society.

    • Atheist_Hindu says

      @Slave of Prophet

      So, if you’re slave of the Prophet and NOT Allah, then are you trying to say that Prophet himself is no slave of Allah, but an equal (or a superior) of Allah? If I don’t know any better Muhammad himself confessed that he was the salve of Allah and that Allah would have his will carried out through him. So, if you are slave of Prophet, then you should be a slave of Allah, too! In fact, if I don’t know any better, all Muslims are slaves to the formless, genderless and immortal Allah and not a mortal Arab man named Muhammad. Now that the Prophet is dead and is never gonna come back, why are you Muslims still shackled to him? Shouldn’t you be directly praying to Allah without bringing your Prophet in between? Your prophet was a mere means for Allah for spreading the (allegedly) true word and religion, not the end itself, right? If Allah wanted, he could have sent another man (or even a woman) from another region of Arabia or the rest of the world to spread his true word!

      • Slave of prophet says

        @Atheist_Hindu
        Firstly you are atheist and we do not consider to talk with atheist. Anyway, I would like to clear you prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was greatest worshiper of Allah that is why Allah provided him status of prophet. As far as you talking we Muslim give highest respect to prophet you are true. And before discussion and finding faults in Islam look at your own Hindu who claim Guru is above the God. Your Hindu sant also claim this
        Kabirdas:-
        गुरु गोबिन्द दोउ खडे काके लागूँ पाँय
        बलिहारी गुरु आपने गोबिन्द दियो बताय
        Guru and God both are here
        to whom should I first bow
        All glory be unto the guru
        path to God who did bestow

        • Atheist_Hindu says

          “Anyway, I would like to clear you prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was greatest worshiper of Allah that is why Allah provided him status of prophet. As far as you talking we Muslim give highest respect to prophet you are true.”

          SO, if it is true that you Muslims give highest respect to the Prophet, then the respect given to Allah himself will obviously be lesser than that given to the Prophet! Strange that the servant of Allah should receive more respect then Allah himself. Frankly speaking, it is Allah who should get the most respect because it was Allah who bestowed Prophet-hood upon his servant Muhammad, and not his servant Muhammad bestowing Godliness upon Allah, right?

          And before discussion and finding faults in Islam look at your own Hindu who…….BLABBITY BLAB”

          Kabir was a theistic Hindu, I am an atheistic Hindu! We Hindus are not a single block of set dogmas and rituals., unlike your Abrahamic cult! Hinduism grants absolute and complete freedom of belief and worship. Hence, Hinduism is devoid of the concepts of apostasy, heresy and blasphemy. Hinduism also gives total autonomy of philosophy/conviction to an individual, as it perceives a single human entity (like you or me) as a legitimate hub of philosophy (when I say philosophy, I don’t just mean your beliefs vis a vis God, but the complete life philosophy, incl. social, financial, marital etc.).

          Thus, in Hinduism, a single person is a sect or a religion (or even a cult) in his/her own right. Yatha Mat, Tatha Path (as many minds, that many paths), as is often said in the Vedic context. Hinduism has no central core or command of full, final, irrevocable and infallible authority! NO Brahmin, Vedic seer, holy mendicant or Yogi etc. has any business telling me what to do/not to do. You must have noticed already that Hinduism has no Prophet; it has priests, sages, saints, holy seers, cult leaders, holy mendicants, celibates and ascetics, but NO PROPHET! No one from the Hindu fold has ever risen and stated that he/she alone knows the true path to God, that all others are fake and thus following their paths will lead one towards eternal Hell!

          Hinduism considers me intelligent and capable enough of distinguishing between truth and untruth and subsequently finding my own true calling in life. This can’t be said, unfortunately, about Islam; it calumniates every member of humanity by saying that he/she is incapable of finding their own path or even distinguishing between truth and untruth without the intervention of a mortal: an uneducated Arab shepherd-turned-wagon robber!

          So, what Kabirdas has said or not said (with due respect for his individual philosophy) makes no difference to me whatsoever. It might make a difference to his followers (the Kabirpanthis) though. Anyway, I believe Ankur above has already pointed out the flaw in your argument. Nevertheless, even if Kabirdas were to say something ridiculous (eg: slaughtering animals on certain designated periods in the name of God makes you a pious person) or something disgusting (eg: having incestuous marriages with you cousin is not wrong in the eyes of God), would have given a damn!! But, of course, knowing the philosophical robustness of Kabirdas, I do realize that he has said none of this EVER!

        • Slave of Prophet says

          @Atheist_Hindu
          I dont want to talk about Quran now,…………..because religion doesnot give me bread to eat………….. I am concentrating at my work.
          Because I am not dumbass to talk about religion all the time ,
          Yes Allah is great. But Bread is first then Theism.
          Because first i am Human (by food and work i shall survive not religion). After completing my household task then i will talk about Islam and PBUH.

          So, dont eat my brain now, i am not mentally retard .
          Help Human beings and Allah will be happy……………I am rational man.

          May Allah bless us !

          • Atheist_Hindu says

            Slave(why?) of Prophet

            That’s a good one, buddy boy! Now, that you have capitulated and are unable to answer my points, you have started spouting this “rationality” stuff and that “by food and work i shall survive not religion” (BTW, this statement is a direct lift off from the Vedic message Karmeva Vandana, or Work is Worship, the motto of the DAV Public Schools run on the principles of Arya Samaj).

          • Slave of prophet says

            @False Slave of Prophet
            Many people have come after Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) to claim themselves prophet. But people know they were false prophet as you are false slave of prophet who posting comment from my User name.
            For a true Muslim religion is above all but you are a materialistic person for whom money and job everything. You are not true slave of prophet. I am sure, You are a non-believer. Today internet has become source of wrong information served by non-believers regarding Islam. I am not sure internet halal or haram?

          • Atheist_Hindu says

            @ Slave (why?) of Prophet

            “Many people have come after Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) to claim themselves prophet. But people know they were false prophet as you are false slave of prophet who posting comment from my User name……..For a true Muslim religion is above all but you are a materialistic person for whom money and job everything. You are not true slave of prophet. I am sure, You are a non-believer.”

            Buddy, I never even claimed to be a Slave of the Prophet, let alone a true slave of the Prophet, as I have my own intelligence to guide me towards truth and away from untruth.

            The world holds two classes of men — intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.
            ― Abu’l-Ala-Al-Ma’arri

            I am proud to belong to the former, while you are happy belonging to the latter! That’s the difference between you and me. You have been making claims of being True Slave of Prophet, while I made none! I had stated at the very outset that I’m an atheistic Hindu. I had clearly spoken the entire truth about my convictions. I had not lied (Al-Taqqiya is not part of our traditions, you know!) at all about myself.

            I had used “@” symbol in front of your name just to let you know that I was referring to you in my replies! That’s what the symbol is meant for in online conservations, O naive one!

            ” Today internet has become source of wrong information served by non-believers regarding Islam. I am not sure internet halal or haram?”

            Well, if you weren’t sure about it, then why did you use internet in the first place? Should’ve consulted your trusty neighborhood Moulvi before embarking online! You don’t eat an animal’s flesh first and then make sure whether the animal’s flesh was halal or haram, now do you?

          • Atheist_Hindu says

            @ Slave(why?) of Prophet

            WHy don’t you answer each of the queries I’ve put so far before you (after reading them thoroughly) instead of avoiding or trying to character-assassinate me?

            If I’m spreading misinformation abt. Islam, then answer each of my queries objectively and shame me beyond repair!!

        • Atheist_Hindu says

          @Slave(why?) of Prophet

          So, to say the truth in Muslim nations (dar us salam) is a crime! I wouldn’t be surprised, considering the fact that lying in God’s name is permitted and is even considered a virtue in your religion! Anyway, the fact is, the prophet, being a mortal, had to die anyway. And he did, hence his grave in Al-Masjid an-Nabawi, Medina! Alive people don’t live inside graves, they do so in HOUSES!

          Secondly, I have made this statement on the world wide web, which is nobody’s property (Muslim nati0ons can censor it, but not own it)! So, balls to you and your band of merry goat-bearded nutjobs!

          Finally, the very fact that you Muslims can kill me for speaking inconvenient truths in your nations is proof of the fact that you folks HATE THE TRUTH! You are enemies of truth and rationality, because you know that they will unravel and utterly decimate your charade of a religion called Islam.

  31. satyavan tripathi says

    @slave

    Yes u are right he was great man as shown in movie “innocence of muslims” (bhuun).
    he was not ordinary man as he was not man but …..

    satyavan

  32. Atheist_Hindu says

    Agniveer Mahoday

    WHy was my 1st reply to Slave of Prophet removed? Was it too offensive or is it still subject to moderation? I tried not to be offensive, but don’t know what exactly peeved you about it?

    • says

      All comments above 2000 characters are automatically sent to moderation to avoid spam attacks. The moderators however review the comments from time to time and may approve these.

  33. srikanth says

    caste system is based on tendencies/traits in you ..

    they are four personality types ..

    thinker/knowledgeable person, who thinks for the welfare of the entire society and guides necessarily
    protector/defense/concerned for others
    businessman/economic upholder
    physical worker (one who cant think on his own) who takes instructions/ (like a labourer takes engineers instructions)

    these are 4 types of personalities/traits which we can never erase as long as humans exists…

    and vedas never said brahmins were superior or shudras inferior ..all these 4 compnents are equally important for the smooth functioning of any society …

    try replacing thinker doing defense and physical worker deciding on nations tax policies , obviously thats how our society is today… brahmins (knowledgeable ppl )are not heard for policy making/law making etc and those decisions are taken by ppl who can think only for themselves. Thus they had some duties which they could only do themselves .. if they failed to do so then soceity would suffer for it…

    when brahmins(thinking class) forgot to do their duties and enjoy selfishly, forgetting that they had to guide the whole society on values and knowledge of god and divinity (moving away from prescribed duties) society lost track and doom began…

    • Arun says

      Caste is derived from Portuguese and it embodies the Poruguese concept of race based permanent hierarchy. this is not Hinduism. Only Varna is spoken about in Hinduism and it is not hereditary. We should stop using the word Portuguese derived word caste and refer only to Varna or the Indian word Jati (community).

    • Arun says

      In other words there is the Varna system in Hinduism or Jati system in general Indian society but there is no “caste” system in Hinduism.

  34. Asfaq says

    @Agniveer,
    Why do Allah make ur religion immortal as you never loved God ?
    If you do a survey , u will find out that 90% of Hindus are Atheists.
    I was a Hindu before ….. but i never get religious satisfaction there……When i want to practice theism , people make comments like as “do u wana be babaji ?”, “People get mad by involving in religion” . My parents scolded me whenever i trying to worship God….whenever i want to tell any verse of Gita to my relative ,noone encouraged me but i get only critisism. One day my aunty’s son and she came to my house ….. i eagerly recite a verse of Gita to them. She tell my mom that,” Your Son will go mad, he will be a sannyasin …..try to correct him…..look at my son , he never do such things” ………….Did i done any crime ?. No, i was doing what is just.
    Thats why ,One day My parents slapped me as i was reading Gita….They says that i just wasting my time. The great saint of Hinduism,Vivekananda says that “be a rank Atheist”, only he is referred as a icon in Hinduism.
    Alaways Hindu Brahmins and Rishis are critisised in Televisions….people make fun of them…..Why ? Do Theist have no respect ? I thought in what crap religion i was born ,noone respect their Saints…Even when the TV Channels make Fun of their Rishis , the peoples never get angry but laughed as they got no Shame. I forced to be an Atheist which i never was.
    On the other hand, Mohemmedans die for God. The parents teach the way to worship God to their Children. If the Son or daughter wear their religious dress they get appreciated.
    I thought in which drain i was drowning …..I have no problem with God because God is one and religions just the ways to him ,but with the followers…….I never get spiritual satisfaction in this religion . Never !
    That’s why i embrace Islam.
    Do you know why God created Islam? because you guys killed Theism.
    Now, i proud to be in Islam.

    may Allah guide us!

    • dogra says

      That is yiur free choice Asfaq, but fact you decided based on what people making fun of rishis etc, is imo a very shallow reason.
      Why i am Hindu faith:
      1) Lord Krishna says gid resides in hearts of all beings, so accept all beings
      2) Karma Yoga-selfless service without expectation of rewards, beautiful,
      3) Dignity of labour to all functions
      4) Gender equality e.g. martial female forms of God ie Kali Ma, Durga Mata etc

      Now asfaq make fun of that
      Sanatan Dharma-hinduis, is a beautiful faith, bur each indiviudual is free to choose whichever pathway suits them, as we are not all robots, but an indivudual humane beings, and Hinduism is a pluralistic faith!

    • Arun says

      Asfaq
      You in the end turned out worse than those people who discouraged you from reading the Gita or showing any interest in Hinduism. At least they remained Hindu however lax. You instead decided to convert to the faith of Arab foreigners who slaughtered and enslaved our people, raped Hindu women, destroyed Hindu temples, and have been trying to wipe out all other religions off the face of the earth. You could have instead chosen to speak up for Hinduism, for the Gita. These people of the faith you joined far more than your relatives disrespected the Gita and disrespected your faith Hinduism. And you joined them in insulting Hinduism and its scriptures such as the Gita. You could have been the Hindu you would have liked to have had in your life. You could have been the Hindu among your relatives who proudly read the Gita and was religious. You could have been that religious Hindu that you wanted in your life not only for your self but for others who like you were discouraged.

    • Ankur says

      @Ashfaq : Brother.. to a big extent you are right that today’s hindu society is driven by the influence of “stupid and ignorant” peer and family pressure.its really unfortunate that your parents had no respect if not understanding for your choices, I understand it must have been a battle that you fought with your own self and hence made the choice, but what one must understand is that GOD is YOUR’s and his bond with you is stronger that any other bond that you will ever make, so you must focus on this bond and figure out ways to enhance this bond rather than looking for an environment that makes you believe that you have the bond with GOD, because it has to be built by continuous effort and Islam does not have method to strengthen that bond.(what ever you have you had it before you accepted islam so its YOU and not islam)
      Dont let people around you dictate your life. if you love God you need nothing more that that and he will take care of you “in this life” given you have a pure heart and a longing for that one almighty

      • Arun says

        You know Ankur and Asfaq, I did not have too many people in my life encouraging Hinduism either. I know what you are talking about Asfaq. But I recognized that this was not the religion of Hinduism fault. It was the destructive Nehru anti-Hindu secularism that too many of our people lived through on top of the remnants of Arab Muslims and European Christian barbaric imperialism. They were idiotically taught that to be Western and modern is to be not religious. But in truth faith love for Hinduism, love for Iswara is compatible with modernity. I knew that even if others did not get it. My faith Hindu faith needed my love and needed my support, and needed my championship after so many centuries of vicious foreign invaders be they Arab Muslims or European Christians and Communists/Socialists. There is absolutely no reason why I could not express my love and interest for God in the Hindu faith just like those Muslims you like would, regardless of what anyone else said, regardless if anyone encouraged me or not. And You know what I’ve been a positive influence to all those who in my life were not encouraging Hinduism or faith. Through my example they saw it is possible to be modern, successful, and a person of faith, proudly and openly Hindu. I am a great example to the younger generation. They now have the encouraging Hindu in their life that I did not have, a supporting and encouraging role model. You could have chosen that too Asfaq. I do this without anger or frustration to the people who were discouraging, but with forgiveness to them and joy in being Hindu in myself. As Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. You see people in Hinduism Today magazine – many of them are not Indians. What encouragement did they have to be a part of Hinduism in Western countries? Far less than you or I had I guarantee you. Yet other people’s negative attitude and discouragement against Hinduism did not stop them from becoming a part of not only Hinduism but Hinduism’s renaissance. Think about that about all this, and rethink your choice to become yet another disparager of Hinduism much worse than those who discouraged you.

        • krishnarao says

          Hi Guys,

          This guy is really taking us for a ride. He did not leave Hinduism nor was he ever Hindu. He is clearly making stuff up. It’s really easy to make such claims when you are hiding behind a computer with no proof. I’m sorry, but that guy is just making shit up. There are many people like that and come on here or other Hindu sites to try and make a stink. I could have easily just made a claim that I left some other religion and am now a Hindu or better way to put it a Vedic follower. Or Dharmic follower. Instead we should ask that guy why is he still following a religion that:

          1. forces you to accept a man as a prophet plus believe in the one God. It is a form of idol worship. Instead, you should JUST believe in the one God only. No need for prophet. That is a form of attachment and God is beyond the need for some individual.

          2. The idea of a prophethood is a total joke. Anyone should able to reproduce what a so-called prophet does. Or it is a form of hate. God is suppose to be the great equalizer. Which means that Omkar would not discriminate and allow anyone to reproduce what a so-called prophet did. Like get an angel to come to him. And we know that if we can’t reproduce it is a fake. While with the Vedic way, we are able to reproduce what Buddha, Rama, or Krishna did. And that technique that was taught to us was YOGA (ANd this is not the bullshit form taught at the west. I’m talking about meditation and everything else that is included in YOGA). And we can become Yogis.

          3. And directional prayer. That is a form of idol worship. Very simple. Very Simple. GOD does not need an object or direction because God is infinite and everywhere. So any fool that thinks they need to pray to a certain direction or pray towards a certain object is a moron. We just need to meditate on the ONE GOD. Very simple. Also keep in mind unity is not an excuse for praying towards some object. Unity is how one treats others not what direction someone prays. It is the dumbest explanation ever.

          Krishna, Buddha, or Rama or any Dharmic person was not an incarnation, prophet, God, son of god, superman, or even x-man. They were just people that did great things. Instead they were Rishis/Yogis. Infact we don’t believe one is an incarnation, prophet, God, son of god, superman, or x-man. We believe what they did was download/experienced God and enlightenment. And they showed us a technique of how we can all do it ourselves. And that technique is called YOGA. So we can become a Rishi ourselves.

        • krishnarao says

          Hi Guys,

          This guy is really taking us for a ride. He did not leave Hinduism nor was he ever Hindu. He is clearly making stuff up. It’s really easy to make such claims when you are hiding behind a computer with no proof. I’m sorry, but that guy is just making shit up. There are many people like that and come on here or other Hindu sites to try and make a stink. I could have easily just made a claim that I left some other religion and am now a Hindu or better way to put it a Vedic follower. Or Dharmic follower. Instead we should ask that guy why is he still following a religion that:

          1. forces you to accept a man as a prophet plus believe in the one God. It is a form of idol worship. Instead, you should JUST believe in the one God only. No need for prophet. That is a form of attachment and God is beyond the need for some individual.

          2. The idea of a prophethood is a total joke. Anyone should able to reproduce what a so-called prophet does. Or it is a form of hate. God is suppose to be the great equalizer. Which means that Omkar would not discriminate and allow anyone to reproduce what a so-called prophet did. Like get an angel to come to him. And we know that if we can’t reproduce it is a fake. While with the Vedic way, we are able to reproduce what Buddha, Rama, or Krishna did. And that technique that was taught to us was YOGA (ANd this is not the bullshit form taught at the west. I’m talking about meditation and everything else that is included in YOGA). And we can become Yogis.
          continued

          • krishnarao says

            ANd:
            3. And directional prayer. That is a form of idol worship. Very simple. Very Simple. GOD does not need an object or direction because God is infinite and everywhere. So any fool that thinks they need to pray to a certain direction or pray towards a certain object is a moron. We just need to meditate on the ONE GOD. Very simple. Also keep in mind unity is not an excuse for praying towards some object. Unity is how one treats others not what direction someone prays. It is the dumbest explanation ever.

            Krishna, Buddha, or Rama or any Dharmic person was not an incarnation, prophet, God, son of god, superman, or even x-man. They were just people that did great things. Instead they were Rishis/Yogis. Infact we don’t believe one is an incarnation, prophet, God, son of god, superman, or x-man. We believe what they did was download/experienced God and enlightenment. And they showed us a technique of how we can all do it ourselves. And that technique is called YOGA. So we can become a Rishi ourselves.

        • Krishnarao says

          Dear Friends,

          This is a Purva Paksha of islam by a Western scholar:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9sYgqRtZGg

          I ask everyone to watch this video. One of the best online.

          So basically you have three major text of islam:

          1. Sira (Biography of momo aka mohammed) 26% of all three writings
          2. Hadiths (traditions) 60% of all three writings
          3. quran (so called word of their god) 14%

          So basically 14% of all the muslim text was the word of their god, but vast majority 86% (sira(26%) and hadiths(60%)) is what momo did or said. So by the amount of text dedicated to momo, it shows he is more important than their god. Isn’t that interesting. The word of their god is valued with only 14%. Something to think about guys and gals. I always said islam spends way to much time obsessing about momo instead of their god. It really shows where their priorities are. It also shows that the religion was built specifically for momos gains not really for god.

          Other facts:
          continued.

          • Krishnarao says

            Continued:

            Facts from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9sYgqRtZGg

            Verses dedicated to war or jihad:
            1. Mecca quran (The verses that mohammed made there) dedicated to jihad: 0%
            2. Median quran (The verses he got there) dedicated to jihad: 24%
            3. Sira verses dedicated to jihad: 60%
            4. Hadith verses dedicated to jihad: 21%

            Total average verses that are dedicated to holy war, jihad: 31%

            More facts:

            Amount of verses that are focused on the kafir (non-muslim or infidels):
            1. koran has 60% of its verses focused on non-muslims
            2. Sira has 80% of its verses focused on non-muslims
            3. hadiths 37%

            In all three books it is 60%. That means vast majority of the muslim texts is about the infidel. Why a religion have majority of its text focus on people who don’t follow islam at all. Isn’t that interesting. These are facts with lots of power and as Dharmic people, if we did our own Perva Paksha, we would have gotten these facts and a lot lot more. Please watch the video to see more details and great jobs this guys did. I was very impressed with the statistics he used. They were very powerful and put it down.

      • Arun says

        Ankur and Asfaq,
        I did not have too many people in my life encouraging Hinduism either. I know what you are talking about Asfaq. But I recognized that this was not the religion of Hinduism fault. It was the destructive Nehru anti-Hindu secularism that too many of our people lived through on top of the remnants of Arab Muslims and European Christian barbaric imperialism. They were idiotically taught that to be Western and modern is to be not religious. But in truth, faith and love for Hinduism, love for Iswara is compatible with modernity. I knew that even if others did not get it. My faith Hindu faith needed my love and needed my support, and needed my championship after so many centuries of vicious foreign invaders be they Arab Muslims or European Christians and Communists/Socialists. There is absolutely no reason why I could not express my love and interest for God in the Hindu faith just like those Muslims you like would, regardless of what anyone else said, regardless if anyone encouraged me or not.

        • Arun says

          And you know what Ankur and Asfaq I’ve been a positive influence to all those who in my life were not encouraging Hinduism or faith. Through my example they saw it is possible to be modern, successful, and a person of faith, proudly and openly Hindu. I am a great example to the younger generation. They now have the encouraging Hindu in their life that I did not have, a supporting and encouraging role model. You could have chosen that too Asfaq. I do this without anger or frustration to the people who were discouraging, but with forgiveness to them and joy in being Hindu in myself. As Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. You see people in Hinduism Today magazine – many of them are not Indians. What encouragement did they have to be a part of Hinduism in Western countries? Far less than you or I had I guarantee you. Yet other people’s negative attitude and discouragement against Hinduism did not stop them from becoming a part of not only Hinduism but Hinduism’s renaissance. Think about that about all this, and rethink your choice to become yet another disparager of Hinduism much worse than those who discouraged you.

  35. Arun says

    Asfaq
    you initially showed pride and interest in original faith Hinduism, in its scriptures such as the Gita. You were not encouraged but discouraged unfortately. That is the influence not of Hinduism but of anti-Hindu communism, socialism and anti-Hindu fake secularism. It is unfortunate that you blamed Hinduism for this. You were not born into a crap religion that teaches its followers to disrespect it. You were born into a noble religion whose people, yours and mine, have been under attack for centuries. Part of that result is the behavior you saw in some of the people in your life. Three groups of people viciously attacked and killed many of our Hindu people and did everything possible to destroy Hinduism and one key to destroying Hinduism is to get Hindus to destroy it themselves by just the behavior the people in your life displayed. These Hindus were taught false things, to be ashamed of religion in general and their own faith in particular. It is a shame you blamed the faith for the behavior of the people in your life.

    • Arun says

      And finally Asfaq
      As for all religions being interchangeable ways to him so it does not matter if you convert from Hinduism to Islam, that is false. They do not teach the same things. I want you to read this article by Hinduism Today Magazine “All Religions are Not the Same
      The problem with Hindu Universalism, A critique of radical universalism”
      by Frank Gaetano Morales, Ph.D. (Dharma Pravartaka) the article is found at this link http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1424

      There are many Hindus involved in the Hindu renaissance including the people in Hinduism Today magazine, who are proud to be Hindus to read its religious scriptures and to be a person of faith. And they did this even if no one else among them were. They did not let other people’s negativity about religion and Hinduism discourage them or make them leave Hinduism out of anger and spite. They channeled their energies into being part of the Hindu renaissance and part of the solution and brighter future and not another person part of its destruction, part of the problem.

      • Asfaq says

        @Arun
        Then why the sannyasins and the Rishis are teased as”Pakhandis, mad men etc”…… Why not they get punished who insult Hindu saints and Hindu theists?
        I was in fear that the same thing would happen to me.
        Forgot society, I insulted by my family , my relatives teased me in those times. And its not the fault. That time i was not intended to be just a nominal Hindu from outside and insult saints like them. I wanted to be a true Hindu by heart but the only reward i get was insult. Because you Hindu peoples are excess mordern……………..If you get a slight educational degree ,you forgot all the religious duties and become Atheist, not only that you make fun of rituals.
        Ok , those who are replying me , do a task honestly
        Ask any Hindu man,” I want to tell something about Gita, are you interrested ?”
        He may try to avoid the topic or he will say,”I dont want to involve these superstitions. ” or “No! I am very busy.” But honestly speaking ,if you start any other topic either of money or Vulgar one. Definitely , he pay attention to you even if that topic is useless.

        One day , my brother asked me,” Do you all the time engage in these Crap religions ?”.
        To get my respect back i said,” No ! at the leisure time, i read Gita.”
        He said as he has any trouble of religion,” Why don’t you do any other other things at that time?”
        I bet 90% of Hindus are like these. That means, you can even do smoking at free time, but cant read scriptures . If you do that, either people make fun of you from behind or insult you directly.

        Now tell me , Why i remain in that religion in which only the theists are insulted ?

        May Allah give manners to you !

        • Madhu says

          Reading scriptures is not mandatory in Hindu/Sanatana Dharma way of life.If someone or from your family criticises you then at best you should have taken them as questions that need to be answered. If one doesn’t question/criticise Hindu/Sanatana Dharma way of life then for me it’s better cease to exist. I want theists,atheists,agnostics,etc. to question/criticise(of course valid ones and not deliberate vilification as the present Govt. and Media doing) the Hindu way of life.That’s the beauty of Sanatana Dharma.You can question anything under the sun.If the Sanatana Dharma answers your questions great, if not may be you can find in other religions/sects/modes of life.

        • Arun says

          @Asfaq You are repeating yourself. Have you read my comments I answered you.

          Now let me ask you some questions.

          1. Why do you take it out on Hinduism, blame Hinduism, for the behavior of your un-supportive relatives?

          2. You saw sannyasis and rishis teased and said you were in fear of being teased yourself – my question to you is why are you such a coward? You say you wanted to be a good Hindu but look how quickly you buckled and abandoned your faith when faced with some difficulty. You are a fair weather Hindu. You complain about how poorly others treated the Hindu faith and those devoted to it but look at you. Because you were afraid of being teased you turned and ran from your faith. Really mean words make you run? Do you know what our ancestors had to go through for us to be able to inherit our faith? They survived brutal invasions where they would be counting their blessings if all they had to deal with is being verbally teased by the invaders. NO they had to survive slaughter of their fellow worshipers, destruction of our beautiful temples, economic hardship due to plunder, enslavement of our people – and most of it by the followers of the religion you proclaim to follow now. All much worse that you being teased today. So I ask you why are you such a coward that you did not defend the dharma against insults and teasing which are hardly major hardships but instead turned and ran.

          • krishnarao says

            Hi Arun,

            I don’t think that guy used to be Hindu. He is a total and utter fake.

          • Asfaq says

            @ Arun
            “May Allah give manners to you” , I dont used the word”you” for Arun because you are good guys,or those who have answered me but for them who done this to me…….. By the way , i have no wrath for them now because my path is already changed.

            But before entering to the new religion , i just heard the last sweet words who i have saw
            ” Ekam sad vipra bahuda Vadanti” or “God is one but religions are many”

            Sorry brother if i hurt ur feelings

            May Allah bless you and all the Humans!

          • Arun says

            “Asfaq” you have not answered my two questions. You should be able to explain yourself. You did not hurt my feelings. You wrongly confused my disgust in your cowardice for hurt feelings.

            I have one more question for you to answer – what is your purpose in coming to this site which is filled with the type of supportive devoted Hindus you wished you had in your life? You now found Hindus who would support you in your readings of Hindu scriptures and your love for Hinduism. Yet you come here bragging about Muslims. What do you want from us? Sympathy? I feel sorry for you that you did not get support from your immediate surrounding, but disgust towards you for your cowardice about being teased so deep that you ran away and converted to a group of people who are even worse than your relatives towards Hinduism.

            So now you have 3 questions to answer.

          • krishnarao says

            Thanks for your message on here Arun,

            I have heard of the quote from the Vedas that says there are many paths to God. No one ever said where in the Vedas it is. I never found it. Maybe I just have not done enough research. But I have heard someone explain it to me. They said the key about the quote is it says there are many paths to God, but no where does it say all paths lead to God. The problem is people in India have been brainwashed so much that they don’t even understand the very quote they are being told.

            Just because something says there are many paths to God, no where does it mean all paths lead to the truth or God. From my understanding of that quote, I also deduced that the only paths that can be considered a part to God is a path that believes in mutual respect.

            So what does mutual respect mean is the key thing here. Mutual respect means you respect the other religion as a path to God/truth, but just as equally important is that other religion or path also makes the clear statement and believes your path or religion leads to God/truth. So when we say there are many paths lead to God, we in no way state all paths lead to God. But what we do say is any path that sees and states our path also leads to God/truth. If that path does not see that, than that path is no one of those many paths that lead to God/truth of the Vedas.

            I hope that helps out.

            Omkar,
            Krishnarao

          • Arun says

            Your path has changed for the worse. All religions are not the same. Religions are not interchangeable. Islam is no substitute for Hinduism. Islam is not merely another version of Hinduism with the type of followers you wanted to have. That is not what Ekam sad vipra bahuda vadanti means.

            The full quote is this (Rig Veda)
            “46. They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutman.
            To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.”

            You misunderstood what is a declaration in Hinduism long before any other faith including Judaism of there being only one God, of monotheism, for a statement that all religions being interchangeable.

            You should have read the article I gave the link to above about all religions are not the same. Here is another you should read http://www.stephen-knapp.com/why_all_religions_are_not_the_same.htm

          • Arun says

            If you ever truly desired to read the Gita and be a good Hindu you would have never converted no matter how many people teased you. You would have found a way to read the Hindu scriptures and found other Hindus who share your interest like here in this site. You would have stood up for the sannyasins and rishis who were being teased instead of running away like a coward in fear of being teased yourself.

            @Krishna Rao – you may be right about him being a fake. That he may be a Muslims trying to dishearten Hindus and get them to convert to Islam that he promotes as better and cynically using the Ekam Sat quote to convince gullible Hindus that changing religions is no big deal, that Islam and Hinduism are interchangeable except he thinks Muslims are better company.

  36. says

    dear asfak,

    you have been terribly misled by your family members I guess. Have you read life of sankaracharya? his mother stopped him from being a sanyasi. do you know that vivekananda was an atheist initially and he was ridiculed in india as well as in Us. but who is vivekanand now?
    swami chinmayanand was atheist initially. who later become renowned saint.

    brother, true search of god begin from àn atheist.

    and finally, no parents wants their children go the sanyasi way. that’s the truth.
    but once they realize that you are true, I’m sure they will feel proud of you

    mahesh

  37. KrishnaIsTruth says

    @Asfaq, I dont think that you are a converted hindu. You are just making fool to people. Because the person who dont have such strength to face people comments or laughing when practicing hinduism then how that coward person can convert in muslim while people around him will make hard him to survive. And if for a moment i belive that you are a converted hindu then how it can be belive then you will always remain in ISLAM. 1st you should know that relegion is not materialistics thing that change one. Its a a way or path to reach to GOD. You dont have any desire to reach to GOD. You just changed a religion only cause of a DARR or FEAR. And again you will change ISLAM when you will get any fear there. So correct your mind, change your mind not religion.

  38. Malhar says

    @all, a very sad and embarassing incident apart from Stephen Knapp is of Dr. Koenraad Elst who is the biggest sympathiser of Hindus. When he went to interview Puri Shankaracharya, he was told not to come no closer than 5 metres to the Acharya and the Acharya did not even have the courtesy to reply to Dr. Elst directly. He gave answers to a Brahmin sitting next to him.

  39. Malhar says

    @Agniveer Agni, HaHa! Well he is a critic of Sangh Parivar also. He says that Hindus will not benefit by sugar-coating Indian Nationalism with Hinduism, but by initiating political Hinduism. He is against Agniveer for it’s soft stand on Islam. But, he has single-handedly slapped all the JNU historians who keep on trying to “bust the myth of Hindu Tolerance”. All the testimonies of ‘Persecution of Buddhists’ have been refuted by him. He is the only academic defender of Hindus after Sita Ram Goel. When there are so many hostile forces, all people supporting Hindu cause are partners, there may be differences. First let us work towards eradication of Casteist mentality among Hindus and then we all will discuss whose brand of Hindutva has to be taken forward :)

    • says

      That is his personal choice. In case of Agniveer, his primary issue is with our commitment to Vedas and rejection of everything that smells of casteism, gender discrimination and insult to our role models. At one time, he countered Agniveer for our stand against MF Hussain’s paintings. We have tried to bring unity several times, but it seems there are some fundamental ideological differences. And the most important being that he has a purely academic view based on his personal perceptions and we have a real-world accountability. He is a historian and we are engineers and doctors. So we have to get involved in a variety of more visible and less visible activities. And unless they result in a Shahbagh in Dhaka, or notice against Peace TV in UK, or reduction in Love Jihad, or wave of interest among even non-Hindus for Hinduism etc, we find our efforts waste. Nonetheless, we work without egos and if in future we find common themes, we would be always glad to collaborate with anyone.

      • Malhar says

        Well, maybe you are right, but we should also try to gain from other scriptures (and reject whatever anti-feminist and casteist we find there). I have always admired Arya Samaj but do have a few differences with you people with regards to your stand on other hindu sects and icon worshipping.
        M.F. Hussain’s case was very sad. We should not have asked for a ban on his paintings. It is a very uncreative job, instead we should have made paintings of Mohommed with Ayesha and co. as a creative retaliation.
        Arya Samaj already is working in collaboration with some organisations like wth VHP in Orissa and I support those causes.
        I wish Arya Samaj and Agniveer goodluck in your mission.
        Regards

        • Het says

          @Malhar – Ban is the only thing we can do. If anyone draws pic on their religious person, the poor indian people will be killed without a reason. Remember that youtube video on prophet ? So many people died around the world just because an anti-muslim created a stupid video. The youtube video was even banned by Indian government and still many got injured during oppose in india. If I am not wrong, two were died in India too. I bet some of the people who were injured or died, would have no clue about internet or have never opened youtube, but still these fanatic attacked them.

          Now Read this : ( copied from w w w.thoughters.com/2010/05/the-many-contradictions-of-mf-hussain-2)
          Hussain is seen to be dressed in Emirati gear, wearing socks (as described by the interviewer). As Shobha De herself notes, Hussain has been extremely fond of walking barefeet, and he has taken to wearing socks in deference to local customs, which bare feet do not confirm to!! I will quote directly from the article itself:

          “Dressed in traditional Emirati gear, the painter is wearing socks, but no shoes. Mustafa, his handsome third son, explains that this is in deference to local sensibilities with regard to bare feet. ”

          Does requiring Hussain to wear socks (which he has not been doing for the last few decades) not constitute a violation of his freedom? Yet, he chooses to defer to local sensibilities, in a different time and in a different place. – copy over.

          So MF hussain can show respect to the local sensibilities at his new home, but can’t give a respect to the people’s sentiments in india where he has lived his entire life.

        • says

          Brother,

          1. Agniveer is not Arya Samaj. Agniveer is an enlightened movement for strengthening the cause of enlightened spiritualism with focus on unity and tolerance. We have members and support from all major sects and religions of the world. We respect our differences and yet are united for joint common actions for betterment of society and world.
          2. Agniveer is completely against pictorial representation of any religious entity in vulgar manner. Just think of it – how cheap would be mentality of the person who is actually drawing vulgar things. To denigrate any society or religion in name of creative freedom just because a person belonging to that society abused my religion is blinded fanaticism. If there are differences, they better be dealt at intellectual manner. What is called creative retaliation is actually vulgar revenge. Agniveer believes in dealing with differences in same manner as you deal in a family. Entire humanity is our own family. We must respect everyone without generalization deeds of few on entire community.
          3. Agniveer is always willing to work on common objectives with any group of person casting petty differences aside. There is no scope of ego in this realm.

          • Ashish B says

            @Agniveer Agni

            MF Hussain was a bigot.
            But whatever the reason may be, asking ban on his paintings was rediculous. Its against freedom of expression. You also aware that Islamists also use the same excuse to persecute non-muslims. Instead of that, we(not only Agniveer) should have concentarted more on exposing his actual intentions of drawing nude paintings, similarly the way you exposed Zakir Naik. It was more easy & impactful, as he himself said in one interview that he paint nude those figures whom he hate most. Got him pants down.

        • cutie says

          All stupid people living in India that’s why this country cant be develop anymore as the other countries are well developed. Bcoz indian people live in caste-ism and egoist by nature especially who belong to upper class which is created by themselves not created by God.God only created human being..He didnt put any human in high and low category..This cheap things only created by some bastard itself who live in India..and they be proud by called themselves hindu..I am also hindu but i wanna spit on that every person who proudly said they are hindu but their thinking is so narrow minded..now its depend on human what they want to become Devil or Angel..Nobody is lower and higher by caste or religion..they become high and low by their behavior..Reservation should be stop itself when you all leave this stupid casteism..Say no caste and no community..All are hindu who live in hindustaan understood idiot people..

  40. Mohit says

    Appreciate this effort of Arya Samaj and Agniveer.. I was born in India who spent his teens in India, and then immigrated to West for my education and job, but still would like to see my country of birth progress and get rid of all prejudices, terrorism and evils that are trying to subdue India’s forward march.. And, Untouchability, caste system in Hinduism is one such blot.. It pains me when I hear or read anything that shows prevalence of this shameful practice, which prevents Hindus to be one unified entity in face of grave dangers to our country from neighbouring countries and Ebrahimic religious zealots (esp. Islamic jehadis).

    If any one from Arya Samaj or Agniveer or Kendriya Arya Yuvak Parishad is reading my comments, please do something about the untouchable Hindus in Odisha..
    watch this video about their plight

    http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-classics/india-matters-children-of-a-lesser-god-aired-june-2011/276381?ndtv_rhs

    Don’t wait till the missionaries descend on their villages and convert them or they fall pray to Jehadi mullas brainwashing and convert to Islam to escape the humiliation the upper caste hindus (I was born to upper caste hindu household but hate Casteism as it is horrible and worse than Racism) have heaped on them.

    The so-called creamy layer champions of OBCs/Yadavs like Mayawati/Lalu won’t do anything for them.. Please please help your Dalit brothers and sisters from clutches of rotten Caste system.. It divides Hindu society and prevents us from standing united and fighting against invaders.

    If you guys really can do something tangible for these suppressed Hindus, and want any monetary support from my side, please let me know.

    • Jay Arya says

      Yes I agree with you but I also feel more work is needed by hindus in West Bengal and Kerela and I feel that is only possible if hindus work together and organisation like Arya samaj grow

  41. says

    UPPER CASTE CAN SELL THE BELOW n BECOME WORLD’s RICHEST but did not do so…bcos for them welfare of the people came first.
    ==================================================
    Keep in mind —> WOLRD_WIDE and YOU use these FREE OF COST….
    1.ZERO(the concept of nothingness) – was invented by UPPER CASTE
    2.NUMBER SYSTEM(proven better than Roman’s) – by UPPER CASTE
    3.ASTROLOGY(which NASA refers today also) – by UPPER CASTE
    4.AYURVEDA(science of medicine) – by UPPER CASTE
    5.YOGA(science of health) – by UPPER CASTE
    6.METALLURGY(science of metals) – by UPPER CASTE
    7.PLASTIC SURGERY(science of operation) – by UPPER CASTE
    8.ARITHEMATIC(pure mathematics) – by UPPER CASTE
    9.ECONOMICS(artha-shashtra) – by UPPER CASTE
    10. VIMAN Shashtra(aeroplane science) – by UPPER CASTE
    11. SANSKRIT(Language/ script) – by UPPER CASTE
    to name a few and so many other which even I am not aware of.
    —– all done by UPPER CASTE for the people of INDIA.

  42. Diwakaran K.A. says

    Casteism is a distorted state of Varna Vyavastha. I am Brahmin born from Kerala. Here, the so-called Brahmins constitute a mere 0.25% of the total population. Almost 95-100% people are non vegetarians and addicted to alcohol. Brahmins by and large still stick to vegetarianism and non-alcoholism. Very difficult to accept marrying son/daughter to members of other castes because of their unacceptable lifestyle. And, this is not casteism but sticking to vegetarianism and good practices as per vedas. Please enlighten ways and means to accept marrying into other castes when such a dividing deadline exists.

  43. Arun pregash says

    Dear Agniveer,

    Different people have different opinions. I am firmly of the opinion that Hinduism is not a faith, but a way of life. The Vedas do not speak of the ways to worship the ultimate truth ( God ), it describes ways and methods to realize the ultimate truth.

    The Vedas in my opinion contain only the scientific findings and thesis work done by different greats scholars ( rishis, Saints). So my humble request to you is to also focus on a topic which targets Vedas as source of only scientific information.

    I just cannot imagine Hinduism as a religion, it is pure science.

    Thanks a lot, and My best wishes to you and your team for all success in all future endeavors.
    Ofcourse I will be one of the ardent fans continuously following you.

    Thanks and regards,
    Arun

  44. cutie says

    Hindu (body) four community: brahmin (head) kshatriya (arm) vaishya (belly) shudra (feet) All these four communit called as hindu. We all are parts of one body. Without each part our body is not complete. If we lost one part of our body then we become handicap. The human body is the entire structure of a human being. Human Body is considered so loving that God even wants to have it. Spiritual Yogis have found that after going through the 84 millions species this souls get the most dignified human body. So it is the last step to explore the God or to get the view of almighty father god. We know that the soul never dies it takes birth again and again just like as we take new clothes to wear the soul as it takes new body and it is an infinite process. But the body what we get in next birth depend on our karma that thas been cited in Gita by Lord Krishna to Arjuna. We all here to perform our duties. Our action makes our destiny and nothing else. The result is in the hand of supreme power. Karma is the seed of plant and if the seed is genuine it must be fruitful.

  45. cutie says

    Many a time, man has taken birth in high caste and low caste; but this does not make him great or low

    Having been born in high caste man thinks himself to be great and being born in low caste thinks himself to be low and pitiable; both of these states of mind are wrong because many times man has been born in high and low castes. Hence, one should not be proud of having been born in high caste and not feel low if born in low caste family.

    Greatness has nothing to do with high caste. Man becomes great because of his noble work, exemplary character and becomes loathsome because of his immorality and evil conduct. Thus, it is his conduct only that decides his greatness or lowliness. Who does not know that high family born Ravana, Kansa, Duryodhana and others are censurable; whereas Metarya muni, Harikeshi muni and others, though born in low family, are venerable.

    Then, what is the importance of high or low caste?

  46. cutie says

    Hindu religion devided into four community….but again I m saying to all stupid people who living in india..caste and community only created by mentally sick people and who follow them they have something problem in their mind..four community name are Brahmin,kshatriya,vaishya,shurda…and its surprising we all India dnt know the exactly meaning of these four words..let me explain to you..brahmin means not that who born in high class..koi janam se uncha or nicha nhi hota hai.brahmin mean jo god ko janta hai usko apne samne dekha ho jisse brahma ka pata ho or apne acche karam se jana jaye na ki apni jaat se..agr Brahmin hone pr insaan ke karam gandhe hai toh who insaan ashudh mana jata hai who pavitr aatma nhi hoti hai…Kshatriya ka matlb hota hai weh yodha jo mantvta ki raksha hetu apne angg angg ko katva de..samks praniyon ki raksha ke liye apni jaan kurbaan kr de or apne karam pr ghamand na dikhaye..Vaishya who hote hai jo apne kaam mein emaan dikhaye koi chori chakari na kre..apne kaam ko galat tareeqe se na kre..emaan ki kamai ko khaye haraam ki kamai ko haath na lagaye..Shudra ka matlb hota hai shudh or pavitr aatma….jis bande ke ander koi moh, maya, krodh or ahnkaar tak nhi hai jiska aacharn shudh ho or karam shudh ho wohi sacha shudra hai..jo apne karam par purn vishwaas rake…jiske karam ache nhi man mein ahnkaar hai who shudra nhi mana ja sakta hai..agr tum log shudra ko pero ka sathaan dete ko toh or unhe neecha mante ho toh kanjke pujna bandh kr do unke peron (feet) ko dohna unki puja krna bandh kr do..kisi devi devta ke mandir ja kr natmastak na ho or apne mata pita ke peron ko choo ke ashiwadh lena bandh kr do

  47. cutie says

    insaan apne guno se upar uthta hai unche staan pr baith jane se nhi..caste n community created by NUT people jin logo ko khud ko dusro se shreshth batane ke liye apne aapko ek high community mein rakh liya or dusro ko niche dikhane ke liye lower community mein rakh diya gaya bina unki marzi jane…i want to tell to all bloody hindu people community ye decide nhi kregi bastard ki tum kitne high or low ho…tumhare karam tumhe upar or niche girane wale hai…arre gadho god ne insaan banaye hai caste nhi…gadho aisa hota toh christan or muslim mein bhi aise hi char community hoti bt tum log unko as all christan n as all muslim hi bolte ho…tum bloody hindu logo ne khudh hi apne bando ko khudh se alag kr diya…char community hai hindu mein let me explain it to very well suno gadho…hindu ko as a body lo us body ke char hisse tum gadho ne kiye 1st brahmin jisko sir ka staan diya or kshatriye ko bhuja or vaishya ko pait ka or tum sabki favorite community shudr jisko per ka staan diya….ab gadho batao agr per kat doge toh kya apni manzil ki taraf tunde ho ke jayoge tum sb apahiz ho yaad rkhna..agr hmari body ka ek part bhi kat jaye toh hum apahiz kehlate hai toh tum bloody hindu khudh apahiz ban chuke ho..ek bade se bada brahmin or devta bhi jb apne maa baap ntmastak hone ke liye sir jhukata hai toh woh uske charno ko choone ke liye toh akal ke andho sabse uncha staan toh shudr log prapt kr chuke hai…tum nhi tum gire huye ghatiya egoist bande ho jisko god bhi narak mein dalega….i m also brahmin bt i hate castsim okh….say no to community n caste den reservation should be stop itself…abroad isliye develop kr raha hai bcs unka mind indian ghatiya logo ki tarah nhi hai especially katar hindu..1000 saal baadh bhi india mein koi development nhi hogi yeh aise hi high low ke liye hi mrte rahenge…we all r hindu idiot we all r same koi lower or high caste nhi hai..

  48. jalwan says

    jahan bhedbhav vahan nash jarur hoga aaj n to kal . jambudvip tatha hinduon ka . kele ka bhe koi ped hai jahan pat pat me pat hindu ki bhe koi jat hai jahan jat jat me jat . brahman could marry in his own varna/color/caste/ jat brahman low varna/color/caste/jat akshtriya lower varna/color/caste/jat vaishya n lowest varna/color/color /jat shudra n akshtriya in 3 vaishya in 2 while shudra in 1 only. in case if a shudra marries a brahman female the child shall be chandal (though every born child is shudra till upanayan to be called dwij) to stay/live outside the village(though chandal is half brahmaan n half shudra). property of brahman having 4 wives n 1 son from each wife to be made 10 shares out of which 4 shares to son from brahman wife 3 shares to son from akshtriya wife 2 shares to son from vaishya wife n 1 share to shudra wife . parsuram known after parsa he carried was son of jamadagni rishi n akshtriya wife. parasram in protection brahmans killed akshtriyas 21times n declared that he finished akshtriya seed . however akshtriya woman remained untouchedwere taken care by shudra threby khatris n accordingly by permutation combination of 4 varna/color/caste/ jat diffrerent couple children n further more combinations more children who grow youths to work different proffessions thus given caste which could be interchanged but later on castes became watertight compartments n were assigned levels as high n low thereby hate n conversions to budhism, jainism, christiniaty, islam, shikhism n so on also jambudvip spilt into various countries as mayamar , bangladesh , pakiastan ,afganistan , nepal ,bhutan n so on . every body knows gotra pandu/vyash / parasar /shakti/ vashisth is one n same but making fuss n to make people to fight in the name of caste by shirkers /greeder/cheats who forced people not get educated even gandhi was permitted to go to uk on certain conditions for higher education after he passed his matriculation around 100 years back only .

  49. Kaal says

    >>>> being a brahmin (knowledge-oriented), kshatriya (defence oriented), vaishya (economy oriented) or shudra (task oriented).<<<<

    On the basis of my own thinking, I would like to give some suggestion for correction here. I think Knowledge orientation of Brahmin is okay, but Kshatriya should be characterised by People oriented(betterment), Vaishya should be characterised by Earning and accumulating wealth orientation, and after all, the most importanty Shudra should be characterised as crime oriented or the people who are doing bad of society.

    I think this because, for kshatriya, I don't think that defence orientation reality coincide with any kind of innate nature of any individual, but thinking of people, for their betterment, saving plants and animals, social work, proper administration and governance, defence all are the properties that can characterize some individuals innate nature. Saying Kshatriya to be Defence oriented does not summarize all these properties, which includes betterment of people.

    In the same way, for Shudra, I feel Task orientation does not depicts any innate nature of human being, or innate nature, thus cannot fit into the criteria of Krishna being said that caste are formed according to the innate nature of human beings. While criminal instinct seems like to have form of innate nature of an individual. So I think Criminals or anti-social or people who tries to yield bad of people should be classified or characterized as Shudra, I think So.

    Do Agniveerji have any reference that suggest, NO, it is as he had said? Can he/she give us some reference that describes the characteristics of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya & Shudra as innate nature of individuals?

    It's all my own thinking, I have not read any religious books, but have heard and remembered some verses from Krishna.

    I would Like, if somebody analyze my proposal. I hope my english is not very bad.

    Thank You.

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