Purpose of creation in Hinduism

Purpose-of-creation-in-HinduismThis article is also available in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/creation-hinduism-gu/

After having a glimpse of Ishwar, soul and our relationship, we shall now review how the world or universe is created and destroyed. This would be essential to understand our role and purpose better. We start with some mantras from Vedas:

Rigveda 10.129.7

O Humans! Ishwar creates, maintains and destroys the universe again and again. He is the master of the universe, He is present everywhere and He controls the world. Consider Him alone as worth being worshipped and none else.

Rigveda 10.129.3

Before this creation, everything was in dark like night and nothing was perceivable. Matter/ Energy or Nature was in its primordial or elementary form and restricted to a point compared to the infinite expanse of Ishwar. Then Ishwar created the impulse that transformed the Nature into the spatial world that we observe through His omnipotence.

Rigveda 10.121.1

The foundation of all the cosmic bodies that glow and all heavenly bodies that we observe is One and only One master of All, the beloved Ishwar. He existed even before the world existed and He then created the Sun, the earth and everything else. May we surrender and worship only that kind Ishwar alone and none else.

Yajurevda 31.2

He alone is the perfect and complete Purush (living entity), He is immortal and guardian of all souls and Nature. He is different from the inert (lifeless) Nature as well as the souls. He alone has created as well as will create the world in past, present and future. Thank you very much, Ishwar!

Q: Who created the world? Ishwar or someone else?

A: Ishwar created the world in same manner as an engineer creates a machine. He is thus the ‘engineer’ of the world. But like engineer, He used existing ‘raw material’ or Nature (matter/ energy approximately) to create the world.

Q: Did Ishwar not create Nature as well?

A: No, Nature or ‘raw material’ is eternal (beginningless and endless) like Ishwar. Being eternal, there is no cause for origin or destruction of Ishwar or Nature.

Q: What else is eternal apart from Ishwar and Nature?

A: Guess yourself! You know that very well. Because that is what stays with you all the time.

Its ‘you’ yourself!

The third eternal entity is the Soul or Atma or Jeeva.

Q: What is the evidence from Vedas on the three eternal entities?

A: This is most intuitive and logical. You know yourself that you exist (The Soul). You know the inanimate world that exists all around you but is not you. This includes matter and energy – both of which remain conserved and only change form (Nature). And you know that everything is being controlled by an entity different from you (Ishwar). So this concept of three eternal entities (lets call it Trinity) is most basic and known by all of us intrinsically. Other theories demand us to make deliberate assumptions and extrapolations.

In Vedas, there are huge number of mantras that discuss this Trinity. In fact, almost ALL mantras assume trinity as obvious fact – They worship Ishwar, address Souls and guide or pray for effective use of Nature.

But we present here two mantras that focus on this more specifically:

Rigveda 1.164.20

Two living entities – Ishwar and Soul – remain together like friends always. Similarly another entity (Nature) exists like a tree with branches. One of the living entities – the soul – tastes the fruits on the branches. The other entity – Ishwar – is completely away from this and hence never gets into worldly things.

This clearly shows that these are three eternal entities. It also shows that Ishwar never takes birth as humans or incarnations because that would trap it into nature.

Yajurveda 40.8

Ishwar gave his knowledge to its eternal subjects – souls – to utilize world (Nature) in best possible manner.

Similarly Shwetashwatar Upanishad 4.5 states that Nature, Soul and Ishwar are Eternal. These are the ultimate source or cause of world and there is no cause of these three causes. Soul gets entrapped by indulging in Nature. But Ishwar neither gets trapped nor ever indulges.

 

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Q: What are the characteristics of Nature or Prakriti?

A: We have already discussed characteristics of Ishwar and Soul in earlier lessons. Let us briefly understand Nature here. We shall not get into complexities because this is a very deep subject. Putting broadly, the basic Nature is same and one. It remains so before creation begins. Then Ishwar segregates it into following:

Sattva – denoting purity or knowledge

Raja – denoting actions

Tama – denoting inactivity

The Sattva, Raja and Tama refer to impact it has on soul. These three, thus form the minutest components of the existing world. All objects, emotions, information etc have varying mixtures of these three. When we are in sleep, Tama is more prominent. When we seek actions, get angry etc, Raja is prominent. And when we are in peace, spiritual knowledge seeking mode, we are dominated by Sattva.

These components create Intellect, Ego, Mind, Sense Organs, Work Organs, 5 elements – Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Sky. All these then integrate perfectly with soul to create the world that we see, hear, feel, think, assess, evaluate and act upon.

Ishwar remains separate from this as an engineer – benevolent and detached.

Q: What are the requirements for creation?

A: Three.

1. The efficient cause (Nimitta Kaaran) whose activity makes something and whose inactivity does not make anything.

2. The material cause (Sadharan Kaaran) or the ‘raw material’ without which nothing can be made – Prakriti or Nature

3. The common cause (Upadan Kaaran) or the accessories helping in creation.

Efficient cause can be divided into two:

a. Major efficient cause or the engineer or the master architect who creates, manages and destroys – Ishwar

b. Minor efficient cause or the user of the creation – Souls. Without it, the creation is purposeless.

Material cause or Nature is inert non-living and hence incapable of being organized or disorganized itself in a planned manner. It needs an organizer or efficient cause for that.

Common cause includes the time and space.

This is true for any creation that happens in world – by Ishwar or by us.

Q: The way a spider creates a web from within itself, can’t Ishwar make the world from itself?

A: The example given is exactly what Ishwar does.But the conclusion is wrong.

Spider uses its body to create the web. The material for web creation is already present in its body. If its body was damaged, it would not have been able to make the web. Similarly, Ishwar creates world from Nature that already exists within Ishwar.

Q: But when Ishwar is all-powerful, can’t He make world from Himself? This world maybe illusionary form of Ishwar Himself.

A:

1. All-powerful does not mean Ishwar will do anything. He will do only what He should do and He can do it without anyone’s support. Even you can do anything, but would you tear your clothes and eat mud only to prove that you are all-powerful? Such persons are termed lunatics and put in asylums.

Similarly, Ishwar being most intelligent does only what is the BEST.

2. Ishwar helps get rid of illusions. So Ishwar will not create illusions. That is against His nature.

3. If world is created from Ishwar, it should also show properties of Ishwar. For example, if I  create a statue of clay, the statue exhibits properties of the clay. But world is inert and Ishwar is living. World is dumb and Ishwar is supremely intelligent. Ishwar is all-pervading, objects in world are limited in space. Ishwar is unchangeable, worldly objects keep changing.

4. Thus Ishwar decides to create the world for benefit of souls and uses eternal Nature for it.

Q: What was the purpose of Ishwar in creating the world?

Counter-question : What could have been His purpose in NOT creating the world?

Answer: Had He not created the world, He would have remained in bliss. And even the souls would have stayed away from jhamela (complexities) of pain and pleasure.

Counter Answer:

1. Such views are held only by the lazy or those who do not want to take responsibilities of their actions. Not by those who enjoy putting efforts and possess guts. The sensible and responsible ones enjoy life through best efforts.

2. The bliss in world is many times more than pains. Had that not been so, everyone would have been keen to commit suicide. But only the mentally disturbed commit suicide and rest would go to farthest extent to safeguard their lives. This proves that life is dearest to them and they enjoy life the most.

3. Ishwar is not lazy but the most active. Further His qualities like compassion, care, knowledge, omnipotence etc would have been useless if the world was not created. Thus Ishwar justifies His existence through creation, management and destruction of world or universe. We should also justify our existence by doing deeds that justify our role in the creation – to achieve salvation or ultimate bliss.

4. Just as eyes fulfill the purpose of seeing and are useless without anything to see in world, in same manner, all properties of Ishwar, Soul as well as Nature would be useless without creation, maintenance and destruction of universe in a cyclical manner as managed by Ishwar.

5. Thus creation is natural trait of Ishwar. And we should follow our own natural traits!

Q: Why does He not stop further creation and provide bliss directly to all souls forever?

A: This question is already answered by the discussions in previous points. However following additional points can also be made:

If Ishwar were to stop the process of creation now, how would he be able to justly provide for right fruits of actions of souls that they conducted in previous creations and till now? Thus, if Ishwar stops the process of creation, it would make Him unjust. Some souls would achieve salvation without due efforts compared to others.

Thus there is no permanent Hell or Heaven in Vedic system after one-off creation that makes a mockery of the unchangeable trait of justice inherent in Ishwar. Ishwar’s rule is based on complete meritocracy and there are no subsidies or concessions or shortcuts. All such cults who try to show incentives of such concessions are basically misled and should be immediately rejected by the wise.

Q: When Ishwar is omnipotent, why can’t He create the other root causes – Soul and Nature also?

A:

1. We have already discussed several times that omnipotence does not mean Ishwar would act like a lunatic.  Also it does not mean Ishwar can kill itself and create another Ishwar, become inert itself, become idiot, cry, weep, fight, criminal etc. Ishwar being most intelligent does only what is His natural Dharma or property and He does so in BEST possible manner because perfection is another Dharma or property of Ishwar. And He can conduct His acts WITHOUT support from any other entity. This is His omnipotence.

2. So Ishwar does not create Soul or Nature. They already exist. He manages them together so that the best interests of Soul be served. Further since Ishwar is already completely perfect, He can never bring a new thought or a new idea to create something new. Because there is nothing new for the all-intelligent. In other words, Ishwar does not evolve but stays perfect all the time. Some cults believe that suddenly Allah had a fit of inspiration and thought of a new creation implying that He has evolved suddenly from blankness. Such concepts are greatest insult to Ishwar who is always perfect. In other words, if Ishwar does something, it means He would do that always and has done that always.

3. Also, those who think that Souls are created by Ishwar actually transform Ishwar into a psychopathic drama lover who does useless things to entertain Himself. Further, if this happens, then whole creation becomes completely purposeless. Because He may tomorrow choose to destroy the souls as well.

4. Creation and other properties of Ishwar ONLY MAKE SENSE when Soul and Nature co-exist with Him always and then He helps the soul.

5. Just think of it. To be kind is a good virtue. But if there are no people in the world, on whom would you be kind? Now say you are being forced to live in isolation for a day. To show your kindness, would you create a doll and then show kindness to it? Indeed children do so. But if you do so as a mature person, people would suggest mental treatment for you. So just consider if the most intelligent person – Ishwar – can get into such psychiatric problem?

This is one of the greatest loopholes of superstitious cults like Islam and Christianity.

Q: Children of people with form also have form. If they were formless, even their children would have been formless. Since we have form, hence Ishwar must also have form.

A: He is ‘engineer’ of world and not ‘raw material’ of world. Alfred Nobel made Dynamite, that does not mean He looked like Dynamite!

‘Raw Material’ for world is Nature and that has property of form. Hence world has form.

Q: Can’t Ishwar act without a cause?

A: No. Because one that cannot exist cannot suddenly exist. For example, if someone says that I saw the marriage of child of a barren woman, you would say I am mad. Because if she has a child, she cannot be barren and if she is barren, she cannot have child. Similarly without a cause, no action or effect can happen. Every effect has to have a cause.

If someone says that I don’t exist but I came to meet you! There was no flower in the garden but the flower-garland was beautiful! I cannot speak, but I give spell-binding lectures! Such talks are meaningless!

Q: If everything has to have a cause, what is the cause of the cause?

A: The root cause can have no further cause. (Sankhya Darshan 1.67)

That is why it is called eternal cause.

Thus, three entities – Creator, Raw Material, Accessories and Purpose are essential for any sensible creation. Same is true for Creation of world and hence Ishwar, Soul and Nature are the three eternal root causes of this.

Q: It all started with Shunya or void (zero) and ultimately end in void (zero). Whatever exists was zero initially and become zero ultimately.

A: Shunya also refers to a point. If this meaning be taken, its correct. Because when entire world disintegrates and comes to elementary form, it is a point.

But if Shunya is to mean zero, this meaning is wrong. Because Shunya is inert and non-living. How can consciousness come in Shunya or zero.

Further, One who knows Shunya CANNOT be Shunya.

Thus those who give such void-logic are basically trying to run away from the realities of present that cannot be denied. Even extrapolation can happen only for events that exist. But such void-lovers deny whatever clearly exists and then extrapolate purely from their imaginations.

Such ostrich behavior of hiding the face from reality has caused severe damage to our society and world, if we glance in history. This has led to irresponsibility towards society. When invaders were attacking, believers of such ideologies refused to defend the nation by deluding themselves into thinking that it is all Shunya and hence they have no duties. ‘Shunyavaad’ is sure recipe for escapists and lazy ones. The dedicated ones would put their best efforts in any situation that they face.

Q: Something can come from nothingness also. For example, there is no tree in the seed. But after watering, tree comes from the seed.

A: Whatever comes out of seed was already in seed. Only it changed form after interacting with water etc. It does not come out from nothingness. People who have studied science will know that matter-energy is conserved and nothing can come out from nothingness. So this argument is wrong and unscientific.

Q: Nothing is permanent. Everything is temporary. Whatever exists will get destroyed. Hence Soul, Ishwar, Nature also will get ultimately destroyed.

A: If everything is temporary, even destruction must be temporary. If whatever exists will get destroyed, even this destruction should get destroyed.

In reality, only form of physical entities changes. Nothing is neither created nor destroyed. Those who have studied science can understand this better.

Q: There is no creator of the creation. It happened automatically through random combination of matter.

A: If creation happens automatically, then how does destruction happen? And if destruction happens automatically, then how does creation happen. If both happen automatically, then how is the cycle and planning of order of creation and destruction managed?

If you say that when certain conditions exist, creation happens and when certain other conditions exist, then destruction happens, then you admit that there are sets of external conditions that force creation or destruction. Thus you admit, in a different language, that something governs the conditions when creation or destruction happens. In other words, you agree that someone ensures management of the laws or conditions of creation or destruction. This is what we call ‘Ishwar’. So you are saying the same thing in a different language because you have ‘allergy’ to use of word Ishwar for whatever reason.

To make a simple bicycle, you need to plan out make hundreds of components, extract metal from ores, then plan and design the bicycle. So what is the objection when we say that a great planning has gone behind such a complex and highly optimized world that we see?

Can you cite one single example where something got created automatically without it being created by someone?

Without Ishwar being the guide, there would be no way for non-living atoms to know that they have to come together in such manner from these places, ignite chemical reactions, integrate and then make something as complex like a simple leaf or a body organ like hand. Forget about machines like human brain whose working is not understood at all! And then we claim it all happened automatically! This is childish talk and nothing else.

Q: Does Ishwar create the same world every time or puts some variations?

A: Rigveda 10. 190.3 states that Ishwar creates similar Sun, Moon, Heavenly bodies and the world in previous creations and would do so in future as well.

This is obvious. Since Ishwar is most-intelligent and hence creation is a completely optimized process, there is only one best creation for all cycles and that is what Ishwar creates. Ishwar does not have a learning curve because he already knows everything.

However there are variations in each Creation because different souls have different baggage of past actions or sanskaars or tendencies causing them to have different levels of freedoms to act. Thus the same history will not repeat each time.

Q: But why such a big universe with so much of empty space and billions of heavenly bodies for such a small earth? What is the use of all these stars and planets?

A: These are vast from our standpoint but not Ishwar. Also earth is not the only place to have life. There are innumerable earths in universe and souls keep moving from one to another as per their deeds.

All these stars, suns etc are necessary for sustenance of life and process of creation-maintenance-destruction. That is why they are called ‘Vasu’ or entities that help support stay of souls. Nothing is a waste in this universe.

Q: Summarize the creation and destruction process.

A: As per Vedas,

1. Entire Nature exists in elementary form before creation. All souls (except those who have reached Mukti or salvation) remain unconscious.

2. Then Ishwar performs Ikshan or motivates a change in the Nature. This causes Nature to change from its elementary form to something more gross.

3. Gradually grosser forms like various objects are created. These include Mind, Ego, Senses, Work tendencies, Planets, Stars, Galaxies etc etc. All this happens in a gradual process as per unchangeable laws of Ishwar.

4. Once creation is complete, and necessary conditions for souls are created, souls are given birth in various species (as per the deeds of previous creation cycle) on various earths on various points of time.

5. Finally, human species is given birth. Several humans take birth in both genders as per Vedas and not one Adam-Eve as wrongly believed. They have different genetic makeups and hence can inter-marry. Thus we do not have to blame Allah or God for promoting incest or marriage between brothers and sisters during beginning of human civilization.

6. The most exalted of humans are gifted with knowledge of Vedas.

7. They then train other humans in Vedic wisdom and hence process of civilization begins.

8. Depending on actions, souls keep taking birth and death on various earths in various species in various environments.

9. Those souls who get rid of ignorance beyond a threshold level no more need to take birth because the purpose of birth is fulfilled for them. They achieve Mukti or Moksha or Salvation and enjoy bliss of Ishwar continuously for a long time equalling several creation and destruction cycles. We shall discuss this aspect later.

10. During the entire process, universe is gradually changing and moving further to destruction phase.

11. Finally process of destruction happens. The souls are unconscious during this stage. The destruction phase continues for some time that is known only by Ishwar or Mukta souls who have achieved salvation.

12. Finally new creation begins. Again the same process is repeated. And souls take birth as per fruits of the actions in last cycle of creation. The process continues like this.

13. This creation and destruction has been happening continuously like day and night since beginninglessness and would continue forever. This is eternal.

Q: How does Ishwar train humans in Vedas?

A: Through inspiration in hearts of the most deserving during inception of civilization. They then train others and create mechanisms for securing Vedas from tampering. Further Vedas being inherently within all souls, are thus preserved within all of us.

For more on this aspect, please review:

Origin of Vedas and Eternity of Vedas

Q: If Ishwar has not created Soul and Nature and they co-exist with Him, why does He rule them? He should not have any rights over them. Is this not transgression of their personal rights?

A: Co-existence does not imply Ishwar should not rule them. Ruler and subject co-exist even in this world. Does that mean ruler should not rule them? Or should you refuse to use nature for your benefit because it existed even before you were born?

The objection should come only if Ishwar does it unjust manner like the God of Bible or Allah of Quran who are prone to moodiness, anger, fear, laziness, whims etc.

When the ruler is most perfect, and He ensures well-being of subject in most perfect manner and subject themselves have no capacity to rule, only a fool would prefer to turn a peaceful country into Somalia or Afghanistan.

But in the most just country of Ishwar, subject or souls have full freedom to do whatever they desire. And like in any meritocracy, they get the most deserving rewards or punishments for their actions, only for their own benefit. But unlike human rule where one has to wait for rewards to be announced, Ishwar does instant justice on ongoing basis. Also, in human rule, if someone harms someone else, punishment to criminal and compensation to victim happens after some time. This is also true for those superstitious cults who believe that Allah or God is simply testing us here like a mute idle spectator and then would do the justice later after destroying this world forever by sending us to some three-star Paradise or Hell. In Ishwar’s rule, there is no compensation because no one can harm anyone just like that. Further punishment starts being given right from moment of crime. Same goes for rewards.

Only fools would regret living in such a just and kind and prosperous and meritocratic kingdom of Ishwar!

Thank you Ishwar for everything! Kindly guide us so that we can put our best efforts to model our own country and the world in lines with your just kingdom. May we be able to throw away all forces of corruption, immorality and barbarism. May there be no impotent, cheater, corrupt, terrorist, thankless, anti-national in our country. And may we set the best examples of idealism depicting the virtues of character, compassion, justice, diligence, sincerity, commitment, confidence, unity and purposefulness that you exhibit!

Om Shantih Shantih Shantih Om!

(Adapted from Vedic Mantras)

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Comments

  1. Sanjay says

    Your previous post are not engaging on another level of this that an individual has limited vision, sense, intellect, etc. The individual according to dharma is irrational in his behavior because he makes decision on limited knowledge, intellect etc. He limited to what he can do, so an individual decision making, so control by his environment and conditioning. A person is quite limited and because he is limited is predictable.. But a soul has the ability to communicate at higher plane and it is this inward looking who can understand beyond such limitation and understand these forces that intertwine.. So one is not free and suffers through the forces of pragriti, action and reaction. Whereas one who listen to their soul free themselves from bondage, frees themselves from limitation, and such action and reaction, starts to know, and so knows the consequence of acion.

    This zero or void has some interesting properties and very useful in mathematics, as you know mathematics is used to model the real world and zero is very much part of it and that too one of the most important. In fact the basis of mathematics is Karma, zero also can dismissed as also the equal sign as it balances the number system. But there is another element of zero that it is also called the origin in mathematics, and it is neither positive or negative. All this was invented by Hindus this number system, so it also contain some religious elements of Hindus who worshiped nature and got their answer from nature, like science which gets its answer from nature. So don’t dismiss everything so fast as you may dismiss something very important.

    • Arya says

      Brother sanatanakki
      Let us thank all the scholars of Agniveer who have just one objective of spreading truth and fighting the falsehood. May Eeshvar give them more strength.

  2. Indian Agnostic says

    Good vyavahaara exposition .

    I have some healthy disagreements too ;)

    for one, if we look at the created universe from an absolute perspective ..there’s no ‘matter’ as such ..just waves collapsing as per the observer.The observer always is ..or should we say the observer alone is ?

    • says

      Namaste

      Difference in opinions on such intricate topics are bound to be there. In fact that is welcome!

      But let us put that Prakriti is NOT matter used in English. It is a more subtle concept and includes Energy and Physical Matter both. So what you term as matter or wave are both included in Prakriti. That is why Mana, Buddhi, Ahankar also are from Prakriti. However it is not living.

      One of the most difficult challenges on this subject is use of terminology. We are forced to use words that have different connotations. However our emphasis was on following, skipping further details that demand introspection:
      – Creation is not purposeless
      – We cannot skip our present duties and realities assuming that its all meaningless.
      – We should not live with false hopes that sometime in future we shall not be required to put efforts and would simply relax forever.
      On contrary, purusharth is our definition and we should enjoy that.
      – We are not going to perish away into nothingness and never would we cease to remain. But in what state? It depends on our own actions. But there would always be an opportunity to gain more and more bliss.

      We hope we are on same page on these fundamentals. If yes, rest of the details we can sort out once we have brought our brothers and sisters to positive action-oriented attitude with compassion, tolerance and rationality.

      Dhanyavad

      • Indian Agnostic says

        Namaste Agniveer Ji

        Rest assured that i am on the same page as agniveer.

        I also understand that putting these deep spiritual insights in plain and easily understandable language as you do is a huge challenge and has it’s limitations (as in the choice of words or level of detail).

        I felt obliged to register an alternate viewpoint which again emanates from the vedas (Ishopnishad to be precise) and has it’s merits for people who are seeking the truth ‘beyond rationality’ .

        having said that , i am agreement that the first priority must always be to accept rationality and then if the intellect permits ..transcend it :)

        • says

          Namaste

          I agree brother. And I also agree that we being limited in intelligence, would always have a road deeper to explore compared to the point we have reached. And this is where mutual collaboration, dialogues and introspection/contemplation would all be necessary. In fact such discussions are a welcome respite from discussions on 72 virgins, or sex-slavery, or hell-fire for non-believers etc. Thank you for that break!

          We encourage you to register alternate viewpoints because this acts as brain tonic for all of us given the quality of majority of discussions that we are forced to indulge in.

          Had we be born in an era where cruel realities of terrorism in name of religion were not to exist, it would have been so wonderful to explore such Darshan concepts in farthest details. We pray to Ishwar to help our world reach that blissful state very soon.

          Dhanyavad
          Agni

      • Mac says

        Roots of Veda: (Indians are a mix of Elamites and Medes people). Adam was still alive when Enoch was born. Enoch is the 7th generation from Adam. He walked with God for 300 years and Bible says: Enoch walked with God for 300 years and was no more because God took him in heaven directly. It is believed that he has become the scribe of God. Noah the 10th generation from Adam. Here below is the source of present day vedas, the teachings of fallen angels. It was used by King Nimrod also, the first King after the flood. Nimrod is the son of Cush, son of Ham, 2nd son of Noah. All the descendents of Noah’s 3 sons were living together at Babylon, whose King was Nimrod.

        Book of Enoch – Chapter 6

        1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
        2 And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: ‘Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men
        3 and beget us children.’ And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: ‘I fear ye will not
        4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.’ And they all answered him and said: ‘Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations
        5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.’ Then sware they all together and bound themselves
        6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared (father of Enoch) on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn
        7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Semazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal,
        8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.

        Chapter 7
        1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms
        2and enchantments, and the cutting of roots (herbal medicines), and made them acquainted with plants. And they
        3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells (450 feet): Who consumed
        4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against
        5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and
        6 fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

        Chapter 8
        1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all
        2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they
        3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, ‘Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . . Chapter 9
        1 And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being
        2 shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. And they said one to another: ‘The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven.
        3 And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make their suit, saying, “Bring our cause
        4 before the Most High.”‘ And they said to the Lord of the ages: ‘Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, and God of the ages, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the
        5 ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all
        6 things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which
        7 men were striving to learn: And Semjaza, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the
        9 women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have
        10 borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are
        11 wrought on the earth. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.’

        Chapter 10
        1 Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech,
        2 and said to him: Go to Noah and tell him in my name “Hide thyself!” and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come
        3 upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape 4 and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world. And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening
        5 in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may
        6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the
        8 Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted
        9 through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin. And to Gabriel said the Lord: Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in
        10 battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and
        11 that each one of them will live five hundred years. And the Lord said unto Michael: Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves
        12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is
        13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and
        14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all
        15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because
        16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

        17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
        And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
        And all the days of their youth and their old age
        Shall they complete in peace.

        18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and
        19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield
        20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth
        21 destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations
        22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

        AFTER the flood, only 8 survived, Noah his 3 sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth; and their wives. This is the excerpts from the Book of Jubilees. A Jubilee year is 49 years.

        The Book of Jubilees
        Kâinâm discovers an inscription relating to the sun and stars, 1-4. His sons, 5-8. Noah’s sons and Noah divide the earth, 10-11. Shem’s inheritance, 12-21: Ham’s, 22-4: Japheth’s, 25-30. (Cf. Gen. x.)
        [Chapter 8]

        In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M., Anno Mundi, Years since Creation] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad [progenitor of Israel] took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam (Elamites/Indians/Persians), and she bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam.

        And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for himself a city.
        And he found a writing [original veda] which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers (Fallen Angels) in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and stars in all the signs of heaven.
        And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it.
        And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai (Medes/Persians/North Indians/Punjabis), the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and called his name Shelah; for he said: ‘Truly I have been sent.’
        [And in the fourth year he was born], and Shelah grew up and took to himself a wife, and her name was Mu’ak, the daughter of Kesed, his father’s brother, in the one and thirtieth jubilee, in the fifth week, in the first year [1499 A.M.] thereof.
        And she bare him a son in the fifth year [1503 A.M.] thereof, and he called his name Eber: and he took unto himself a wife, and her name was ‘Azûrâd, the daughter of Nebrod, in the thirty-second jubilee, in the seventh week, in the third year thereof. [1564 A.M.]
        And in the sixth year [1567 A.M.] thereof, she bare him son, and he called his name Peleg; for in the days when he was born the children of Noah began to divide the earth amongst themselves: for this reason he called his name Peleg.
        And they divided (it) secretly amongst themselves, and told it to Noah.
        And it came to pass in the beginning of the thirty-third jubilee [1569 A.M.] that they divided the earth into three parts, for Shem and Ham and Japheth, according to the inheritance of each, in the first year in the first week, when one of us who had been sent, was with them.
        And he called his sons, and they drew nigh to him, they and their children, and he divided the earth into the lots, which his three sons were to take in possession, and they reached forth their hands, and took the writing out of the bosom of Noah, their father.

        The ancient world before the Noah’s flood was very hi-tech, much more hi-tech than ours. Skeletons of nephilims (half angels and half humans and some half animals) found today clearly shows that those fallen angels changed the DNA.

    • Arya says

      Brother Indian Agnostic
      Namaste Brother
      I could not understand what is this “absolute perspective”. Please make it simpler for me to understand. Logically, we, being imperfect and changing in terms of knowledge and Sanskaaraas every moment, cant look universe or even self from the absolute perspective.

      The observer always is, the waves (or matter or energy which is different from the observer) always is (this “always” is by the way cyclic in nature, i.e. waves collapsing occur during Srishti and not during Pralay and Srishti and Pralay are cyclic). And the last, for whom the waves are forced to collapse in order to fulfill the objectives, the soul, always is.

      Anyway Brother, could you please shed some light on even if absolute perspective is assumed, how cant matter exist in this case?

      • Indian Agnostic says

        Namaste brother Arya

        From an absolute perspective matter does not exist!
        In the absolute energy condition the Laws don’t exist !

        what exists is the absolute energy condition itself ..it alone is.

        the oscillating universe theory, quantum theory, m theory ..all point to a unified absolute where no matter or no fields exist in manifest state.

        • Arya says

          Brother Indian Agnostic
          Why to try to reach an imaginary state (we can never be in position to appreciate things in absolute perspective) leaving behind the real one?

          The fact that in absolute perspective matter does not exist is based on certain assumption which have their basis in the relative perspective and not absolute! This is yet another flaw in modern science approach, I feel, that they extrapolate the assumptions of their domain to the altogether different domain! I ask you Brother, can anybody who is never in absolute position make assumptions for absolute conditions? How does it look when the assumptions behind absolute perspective theory are taken/extrapolated from the non absolute world?

          In simple words, leaving behind the experience, laws, and nature of present, we try to go to another world which is unseen and give the logic which is against our present experience and laws! In my opinion, any such thing ceases to be called as logic in first place whose assumptions are not universally accepted.

          Also, I would like to call logic to be near to reality. For example, a hungry quantum scientists is searching for food desperately. If I will tell him that actually in absolute terms, neither you, nor food nor hunger exist, he will cry and would come down on his knees literally! This is the real perspective of present in which we have to live. So any logic we give should not be in clash with this reality. and let me add one more thing into it, that even if we leave behind these shortcomings (in my opinion of course) of absolute perspective theory of Quantum science, even then, to make people energetic, working, happy and moral, we can never guide people and self towards reaching ultimate and search for the absolute truth! I myself would like to exist in future as well and not want to reach the absolute state, where nothing will exist.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya

            let me first leave a caveat for others who want to participate in this discussion bewteen you and me .

            [GUYS THIS DISCUSSION IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE CURRENT ARTICLE..YOU ARE WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE FROM A SPIRITUAL EXPLORATION PERSPECTIVE AND NOT FROM THE PRACTICAL APPLICATION PERSPECTIVE.THE ARTICLE ABOVE GIVES VALID RATIONAL ANSWERS TO OUR QUESTIONS..WHAT I AND ARYA ARE DISCUSSING MAY BE BEYOND THE SCOPE OF RATIONALITY>>>SO PLEASE IGNORE IT TO AVOID ANY CONFUSION]

            Now brother, you make two assumptions, which in my opinion are wrong
            1.you presume that i assume the absolute to be nothingness ..I don’t !
            2.You suggest that a soul in absolute realization will become inactive and non-progressive.which is a wrong assumption in my opinion.

            there is a famous saying …”before enlightenment you chop wood and draw water ..after realization you chop wood and draw water “..essentially meaning that neither actions nor results of actions stop after realization.It;s just that the mind-body-intellect complex operates on it’s own and the soul does not get affected by the play of consciousness

            in other words..the food body of the scientist years for food and the mind of the scientist takes a decision to have food ..till we are attached to a food body there is no running away from karma ..as it is the swabahava of food bodies to act !

            any karma associated to the soul will hinder it’s moksha ..if the soul performs good karma ..then again it will remain bound to this world to reap the rewards of good karma.If it does bad karma than it gets the restrictions imposed ..again binding it to the world…It;s only when the soul is in a state of nishkaam karma that it is liberated

            that’s my opinion

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic
            I questioned the beliefs of new Quantum theories, which you gave. I completely agree with you that only Nishkaam Karma will lead us to Moksha.

            I need to know Brother, what is your take on absolute? I also want to know, whether you believe in any Eeshvar who is the creator, sustainer and absolute etc? I think we differ in the concept of Eeshvar and Aatma/Jeev/soul. It would be great if you could present your overall concept in concise manner if time permits you. I know you are busy debating the terrorists here on other articles! So please dont feel hurry to respond or even if you dont get time to write all that, please dont worry. We can have such intellectual differences but it is no way going to affect our relation of brotherhood in Dharm/Humanity.

            I have a request Brother. Please dont argue with the terrorists like Sallahuddin, Tanveer, etc. Each of your great reply goes in vain as they dont even accept their defeat on facts and logic and shamelessly start an altogether different topic. Brother, I request you to save your time, its too precious to waste on these brain dead.

          • says

            Brother, This is the problem with fanatic mindsets. They consider every intellectual discussion as a war. That is why despite greatest claims of science in Quran, and having rule in more than 50 countries, not one intellectual could come out from these places which discourage discussions.

            However in Vedic culture, discussions and debates to ascertain truth is considered not only useful, but essential to come closer to Ishwar. This concept is impossible to be understood by those who believe that ALL non-believers would burn in Hell forever regardless of their other deeds.

            We request you to first prove that you are not a terrorist mind by condemning Zakir and making your views crystal clear on http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/

            Admin

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Right said admin !

            The doctrine of Islam has just one answer for the critic ..DIE!

            not a single Islamic country allows for critiquing Islam ..one is put to death for questioning muhammad’s morality or Islams ideology.

            this itself is a proof at a macro level that islam is a false doctrine..beacause TRUTH is never afraid of criticism whereas LIES have to be guraded and defended tooth and nail

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Only Satan instills fear ..God instills love

            stop fearing ..start loving God ..get away from so called gods that terrify you

            God can never be a terrorist

          • says

            Roger do not make fun with Islam.
            Fear jahannam.

            Reality of Jahannam

            Easy Entrance: “Paradise is surrounded by difficulties and Fire is surrounded by temptations” [Bukhari].

            Eternal: “O Jannatis, now there will be no death; O Jahannamis now there will be no death; On hearing this call , the Jannatis will be delighted and the Jahanamis will become more depressed.” [Bukhari]

            Depth: “If a rock is dropped into Jahannam, it will remain plummeting for 70 years before touching the pith of Jahannam”. [Muslim]

            4 Walls: “Four walls surround Jahannam. The width of each wall is a walking distance of 40 years”.

            7 Gates: “Jahannam has seven gates; one of them is for the one who unsheathes a sword against my Ummah.” [Mishkat]

            Atmosphere: “Jahannam was heated for a thousand years and its fire turned red; It was then heated for another thousand years and it became white; it was again heated for another thousand years and it turned black. At present, Jahannam is pitch black and dark.” [Tirmidhi] “The fire in which one will burn is the 70th part of the Fire of Jahannam.” [Muslim]

            Breath: “Once Jahannam complained to Allah Ta’ala against the increasing heat because one portion was eating into another. Then the Rabb of the Worlds allowed it to have two breaths — one during summer and another during winter. Therefore the heat you feel is the effect of the heave of Jahannam (with it the breath is taken out) and similarly, the rigid cold you experience is the effect of the breath (taken in). [Bukhari]

            7 Layers: Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) has said that the gates of Jahannam are one upon each other. This denotes that Jahannam has layers. “The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire.” [Qur'an 4:145].

            Note: There is no clear or authentic report regarding the following layers, however some scholars have come up with different names for the Hell Fire. Some say it divides the inmates of Hell others say it is the same Hell described in different ways for emphasis.

            Jaheem: The shallowest of the Hells. It is for the Muslim sinners
            Jahannam: It is for the Mushrikin and the polytheists
            Sa’ir: It is for the Fire worshippers (Magian)
            Saqar: It is for those of the Atheist (Mulhidun) and rejecters of Creator
            Nata: Also known as Ladha, it is for the Jews (Yahudi)
            Hawiya: It is for the Christians (Nasirin)
            Hutama: The deepest level of the Hells. It is for the Hypocrites (Munafiqin)

            The great Mufassirin al-Qurtubi says, “This topic indicates that the kufr of the person who simply disbelieves is not like the kufr of a person who oppresses, disbelieves, rebels and disobeys. There is no doubt that the kuffaar will suffer different levels of punishment in hell, as is known from Qur’aan and Sunnah. We know for certain that the punishment of those who oppressed and killed the Prophets and Muslims, and spread corruption and disbelief on earth, will not be the same as the punishment of those who simply disbelieved, but treated the Prophets and Muslims well. Do you not see Abu Taalib, how the Prophet (saws) will bring him up to a shallow level of Hell, because he helped him, protected him and treated him well? The hadith narrated by Muslim from Samurah may be interpreted as referring to the kuffaar, as there is a hadith about Abu Taalib, or it may be interpreted as eferring to those monotheists who will be punished”. [at-Tadhkirah]

            Fuel: “Verily you, (Unbelievers) and the (false) gods that you worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Jahannam! To it will you (surely) come!” [Qur'an 21: 98] “O Muslims! Save yourselves and your families from the Fire whose fuel is men and stones.” [Qur'an 66: 6]

            Ibn Mas’ud (ra) explained; “Stones, which are the fuel of Jahannam, are made of sulphur (brimstone) which Allah Ta’ala created in the nearest heaven on the day heaven and earth were created.” [Hakim]

            Types of Punishments

            Example;

            Creatures: “Verily, there are long-necked camel-like snakes in Jahannam. If anyone of these smites a Jahanami , he will feel pain for 40 years….Verily, there are donkey size scorpions in Jahannam. If anyone of these stings a Jahanami , he will feel pain for 40 years.” [Ahmad] “On the Day of Resurrection, a neck will come out from Jahannam, having two eyes, two ears and one tongue to see, hear and speak. It will say that it has been designated for three types of persons: a. on every rebellious and stubborn one; b. on everyone who made an associate with Allah; and c. on the painter of a picture. [Tirmidhi]

            Food: “Boiling water will be poured on their heads and it would pierce their skulls until it reaches their stomachs; this will make their guts melt and go down to their feet, then everything would be returned to its original condition again” [Ahmad]. “Indeed the tree of Zaqqum, is the food for the sinful. Like murky oil, it boils within bellies. Like the boiling of scalding water” (Ad-Dukhaan: 43-46). “The dwellers of Jahannam will experience such intense hunger, that this alone be equal to the terrible torment which will be rendered . Then they will seek for food and they will be given food that will stick to the throat (i.e. it will neither go in nor come out.)” [Mishkat]

            Iron and Chains: “In addition there will be rods of Iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, due to anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said). “Taste you the Chastisement of Burning!” [Qur'an 22:21-22]. “If the rod of iron is placed on the ground, all men and jinn put together will not lift it.” [Ahmad] “But soon shall they know, when the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along, in the boiling stinging fluid; then in the Fire shall they be burned.” [Qur’an 14:50]

            Garments: “Their garments of pitch, and their faces covered with Fire.” [Qur’an 14:50] According to Ibn Abbas (ra) ‘qateran’ is melted brass. Jahannamis will be made to wear this dress which is extremely hot. [Ibn Kathir]

            Punishment on the bodily parts: “The Fire will burn their faces, and they will grin therein , with their lips displaced.” [Qur’an] “The dwellers of Hell will cry so much that ships can sail in their tears, and their tears will be of blood” [Hakim]. “Verily the tongue of the Unbelievers will be pulled out up to one or two ‘fersakh’ (three miles)and the people will walk over it.” “The distance between two shoulders of an Unbeliever will be so wide that it will take three days if a mount covers it rapidly; his jaw-tooth will be equal to mount Uhad, and the thickness of his skin will be equal to the passage of three days.” [Muslim] “Those who reject Our Signs. We shall soon hurl into the Fire: As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall replace these for fresh skins, that they may taste the chastisement:, for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” [Qur'an 4: 56]. “The least among the people of Hell in punishment is one whose sandals and laces are of fire from which his brain boils as a pot of water would boil (when set on fire), he will not think that there is anyone being punished more than him, but in reality, he is the least in punishment” [Bukhari]

            Some Actions which take you to Jahannam

            Example;

            Those who are weak to avoid evil: “The inmates of Hell are of five types: the weak who lack power to (avoid evil)” [Muslim]

            Those who conceal knowledge: “Anyone who conceals when asked whilst having knowledge, will have a bridle of Fire in his mouth.” [Mishkat]

            Those who drink khamr: “Allah has made a vow that anyone who drinks any intoxicating thing will be made to drink “tinatul khabul ” on the Day of Resurrection. “The Companions (ra) submitted” “What is “tinatul khabul”?” He explained: “It is the sweat of the Jahannamis.” [Mishkat]

            Those who eat Haram food: “Flesh which has grown out of what is unlawful will not enter Paradise, but Hell is more fitting for all flesh which has grown out of what is unlawful.” [Tirmidhi]

            Those who advise others but do not practice themselves: “On the night of Ascension I saw some people whose lips were going to be cut with the scissors of Fire. I asked: “O Jabrael ,who are they?” “These are those preachers of your Ummah who called for righteous deeds and forgot about themselves; they read and recited the Book of Allah but did not put it into practice.” [Mishkat] “On the Day of Qiyamat, a person will be brought and hurled into Jahannam. His intestines will come out immediately and he will start evolving like the ass with the grinding stone. Having seen this, the men of Jahannam will centre around him and ask: “What happened to you? You asked us to do good and avoid evil?” “Yes, of course! I asked you to do good and avoid evil but did not do so myself.”

            Those who boast of their deeds: “Seek refuge with Allah from the well of sorrows.” “What is this well of sorrows?” The Companions (ra) asked He explained: “There is a ditch in Jahannam, which is such that Jahannam itself seeks refuge from it 400 times a day.” “The devouts who repeatedly boast their virtues deeds will be there.” [Mishkat]

            Those who give a verdict based upon his mind: “He who introduces an opinion related to the Qur’an based on his ‘Aql he will reserve for himself a place in the Hell-fire” [Bukhari]

            Those who miss their Prayers: “What has caused you to enter Hell?’ They will say: “We were not of those who used to offer their Salat (prayers)” [Qur’an 74: 42-43]

            Those who use Gold and Silver utensils to eat and drink: “One who eats and drinks in the utensils of gold and silver or the utensils having something of these metals will have his stomach filled with the Fire of Jahannam” [Darqutni]

            Those who draw Pictures that have soul: “Every picture maker will be in Jahannam; his pictures will be changed into a living figure who will then give punishment to him.” [Bukhari]

            Those who commit Suicide: “He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire.” [Bukhari]

            Those who are arrogant: “The arrogants will be raised in the forms of ants, having the body of ants and faces of humans. They will be driven towards the jail of Jahannam very disgracefully.” [Mishkat]

            Those who break family ties: “The person who severs the bond of kinship will not enter Paradise.” [Bukhari]

            Those of the women who are disobedient to their husbands: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allaah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” [Bukhari]

          • says

            O ALLAH ! SAVE US, OUR PARENTS AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS AND RELATIVES AS WELL AS THE READERS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND DECEASED RELATIVES FROM THE PUNISHMENT OF JAHANNAM, AND GRANT US ALLTHE HIGH STATIONS OF JANNAH WITHOUT RECKONING. AMEEN ! IF IT WAS NOT ALLAH’S EXALTED RAHAM AND KARAM WHERE WILL WE SINNERS GO.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @Islam is Great

            thanks for sharing the most stupid nation of Islam – hell !

            most human beings get over these childhood fear factor stories of their own ..not so with Islam..every day they are reminded since childhood of this bedtime story and the muslim mind gets trapped in such fanciful fiction

            just apply your common sense

            Islam says that all is omni present (present everywhere)
            islam also says there is heaven and hell

            if both statements are true ..then allah must also be in hell !

            when allah can;t esacpe hell..how can his followers?

            grow up!

          • says

            Allah is not omnipresent. His knowledge is omnipresent.

            Allah, there is no object worthy of worship but Him; the Ever Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber siezes Him not, nor sleep. Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and none can encompass any of His Knowledge except what He pleases. His Throne (Knowledge and Authority) extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not; and He is the Supreme, the Greatest.
            The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 2, Verse 255

            Transliteration: Allahu la ilaha illa huwa alhayyu alqayyoomu la takhuthuhu sinatun wala nawmun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee alardi man tha allathee yashfaAAu AAindahu illa biithnihi yaAAlamu ma bayna aydeehim wama khalfahum wala yuheetoona bishayin min AAilmihi illa bima shaa wasiAAa kursiyyuhu alssamawati waalarda wala yaooduhu hifthuhuma wahuwa alAAaliyyu alAAatheemu

            This magnificent verse has been named “Ayat-ul-Kursi” and has been described as “The Grand Verse” in the hadith. In one concise verse it describes the grandeur and uniqueness of God. Ilah is an object of worship and “Allah” is the title of that Single Absolute Being, in whom is concentrated all attributes of perfection. “Allah, there is none worthy of worship but Him.” This is the fundamental creed of Islam and the ultimate expression of Tawheed. It is an absolute and unreserved negation of any plurality of the Supreme Being. This affirms the unicity and Divine unity of the unbegotten and unbegetting (The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 112, Verses 1-4), and confirms the reality that “Godhead” in its entirety belongs exclusively to the Eternal Being, Allah.

            This attribute of Allah signifies the Being who is deathless, for Al-Hayy is on a paradigm denoting perpetuity and thus denotes the Ever-living. “He is the All – Mighty, the All – Wise. Unto Him belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth; it is He who grants life and causes death; and He has power over all things. He is the First (without beginning) and the Last (without ending), He is the Evident and He is the Immanent.” The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 57, Verses 2-3

            Originating from the word “qaama” (to stand), Al-Qayuum carries by association the connotation of establishing, accomplishing, managing, protecting, having power and authority. Al-Qayuum therefore refers to an attribute of Allah that indicates His ability to stand by Himself requiring the support of none, while everything else is in need of His support. He is the unoriginated Who originated everything else. He is the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining on Whom are dependent all levels of existence.

            “Neither tiredness nor exhaustion overcome Him.”

            Sinah is derived from Wasana which implies slumber, drowsiness, exhaustion, negligence or unguardedness. Nawm (Sleep) is the opposite of wakefulness and together Sinah and Nawm express the opposite of Qaama.

            It is not conceivable for “Al-Qayyum” to ever be in a state of Sinah or Nawm. This is an open refutation of the idea of those who consider the Supreme Being analogous to their own imperfect selves and who therefore ascribe to Him the finite weakness which is characteristic of human beings. In Islam, God is never in need of rest.

            “Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth.”

            After making reference to the attribute Al-Qayyum and negation of any fatigue or slumber on the part of Allah, reference is then made to His ownership. Every conceivable thing is part of creation, part of the universe and thus subject to Allah’s authority. The comprehensiveness of Allah’s Being Al-Qayyum includes ownership of the heavens and the earth with due authority. “The Beneficent, is established on the Throne. Unto Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on earth; whatever is between them and whatever is below the surface. He is the One to whom you need not call upon aloud for He knows full well whatever is secret and most hidden. He is Allah, there is no deity nor object of worship but He; unto Whom belongs the most beautiful Names and Attributes.”
            The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 20, Verses 5-8

            Allah’s authority and ownership over creation is such that all their attributes, properties, characteristics and traits exist because of Him. There is no activity connected with anything, from its inception to its ultimate end that does not proceed from the ability and capacity provided by Him.

            “Who can intercede with Allah except by His permission”

            Intercession implies being an intermediary in affecting the consequence of a matter. The intercessor thus has some influence on the affair of the matter or thing for which intercession is made. Here, there is an unreserved refutation of the idea that anyone or anything has the power to impose its will on Allah. No one shares independently in Allah’s governance of the universe and no one therefore could decisively affect His judgment or decision. Such influence would be contrary to the complete authority and total sovereignty of Allah, unless it is by His design, His decree or His permission.

            The Holy Prophet (pbuh), to whom the Divine Will has been revealed, is the model par excellence for humanity (Uswatun Hasanah). The Holy Prophet (pbuh) being the supreme human guide by the design of Allah, leads us to the Path of Salvation and in this sense is shafi’ (intercessor). He is thus the most appropriate of Allah’s creation to be permitted to intercede in the Hereafter.

            “He knows whatever is before them and whatever is behind them. They cannot comprehend anything of His knowledge except that which He pleases.”

            The whole tenor of this phrase relates directly to the Omniscience of Allah. Allah’s Knowledge is not limited nor measurable for it is not bound by the limitation of the finite. His boundless knowledge is comprehensive, complete and all – embracing; encompassing all dimensions of reality in its entirety. “And there does not lie concealed from your Lord the weight of an atom in the earth or in heaven; nor anything greater nor anything less.” The Holy Qur’an, Chapter 10, Verse 61. The knowledge that all beside Allah have is acquired by instinct, training and experience. The knowledge possessed by creation is but a study and appreciation of Allah’s manifestations which are reflected in His creation.

            “His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth.”

            Kursi literally means chair. This word has been variously interpreted by the scholars:

            a. The Kursi (chair) and ‘Arsh (throne) of Allah (Quran 20:5) is one and the same. The Kursi and ‘Arsh is symbolic reference to Divine Sovereignty.

            b. It signifies Allah’s power. It is used to connote Divine Authority and relates to Allah’s Omnipotence.

            c. It signifies Allah’s Knowledge. The word Kursi has often been used in Arabic to indicate learning and knowledge. This is evident from the Arabic proverb “Khayr al-nasi al-karasi” (the best of people are the learned)

            d. It is an image expressing Allah’s Grandeur and Majesty.

            There is no doubt that the tenor of this phrase relates to Allah’s Omnipotence and All-Encompassing Divine Authority. In cognizance of that, the Kursi could be an expression indicating the Divine capacity, originating and maintaining the functioning order which is prevalent in the cosmos.

            The Authority and Knowledge of Allah is an indispensable extension of His Divinity, reflected in the maintenance and preservation of everything in the heavens and the earth with all its potentialities, characteristics and variety.

            “And the preservation of both (the heavens and the earth) does not tire Him.”

            Allah is not burdened by the responsibility of the heavens and the earth, for the management of all affairs is the dominion of Allah. This management is exercised through His knowledge of all existence and His authority over the intermediary causes which He Himself created. Thus, he is not burdened by the preservation of all that which His limitless knowledge and authority encompasses. This is clear indication of Allah’s total authority, perfectness of His management, supremacy of His ability, greatness of His sovereignty; His freedom from weakness and imperfection.

            “And He is the Supreme (Most High), the Greatest.”

            The ayah concludes by indicating two great principles of Divine Attributes. They reflect Allah’s Eminence, Majesty and Grandeur. He is High above all levels of existence, beyond imperfection, beyond comparison and beyond limitations. He is the Perfect, the Absolute, the Supreme, The Magnificent… the Greatest.

          • says

            Allah Has a Trhone

            Volume 4, Book 54, Number 414: Narrated Imran bin Husain:

            I went to the Prophet and tied my she-camel at the gate. The people of Bani Tamim came to the Prophet who said “O Bani Tamim! Accept the good tidings.” They said twice, ‘You have given us the good tidings, now give us something” Then some Yemenites came to him and he said, “Accept the good tidings, O people of Yemem, for Bani Tamim refused them.” They said, “We accept it, O Allah’s Apostle! We have come to ask you about this matter (i.e. the start of creations).” He said, “First of all, there was nothing but Allah, and (then He created His Throne). His throne was over the water, and He wrote everything in the Book (in the Heaven) and created the Heavens and the Earth.” Then a man shouted, “O Ibn Husain! Your she-camel has gone away!” So, I went away and could not see the she-camel because of the mirage. By Allah, I wished I had left that she-camel (but not that gathering).

            So HE is not omnipresent.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya

            I guess we will have some confused, intellectually challenged guys like @Islamisgreat bro ..who would try to misconstrue this spiritual dialogue..but i suggest we should not sacrifice this interesting topic on such aberrations.I am sure he will grow up one day and be proud of the fact that he changed.

            so continuing forward , here’s my response

            The Absolute can only be pointed to , and as you rightly said somewhere that all our empirical analysis can only be relative in nature..and hence there’s no way to discuss the Absolute absolutely ..rather , one can at best have a relative pointer to the direction of the Absolute.

            and for that matter..when you say that Ishwar, Prakriti and Souls are eternal …you are actually arriving at that conclusion from a relative perspective..one cannot absolutely establish their eternalness ..but make a relative pointer in that direction.[of course it is a given that the pramana for this relative pointer must not fail in any known relative frame of reference and then only we establish that the relative pointer points to Satyam [reality, truth] )

            As far as belief in Ishwar is concerned, i do acknowledge a supreme consciousness is in play…It has a well defined and consistent nature of consciousnesses, bliss and eternalness..but i am not sure if it is the “other” or “not the other”

            you know that i am daring to understand the nature of Ishwar from the advaita perspective [i have to dare to do so to keep the 'not-other' proposition alive..because if there is no other ..then i am essentially trying to understand my own nature !]

            actually at the relative-reality level both the ideologies converge quite beautifully

            1. Ishwar pervades all but is not pervaded by anything[space in the pot is no different from the space outside the pot..and that space pervades the pot and not otherwise]
            2. Ishwar provides name and form to various entities , without him no name or form can exist [if there's no space between things..they cannot be two separate things]

            [[kindly note that space is only used as an example[a relative pointer to explain the Absolute] and that space is NOT nothingness..space is what provides thing-ness to all the things..as without space in between there can never be two separate things!]

            the only difference that arises is in treating this super consciousness as the ‘other’ than one’s Self ..the ideological difference is between “thou are that” and “thou are not that”

            [kindly note that the Advaita of Jagadguru Sri Adi Shankaracharya Ji never negated the world as unreal ..it's the neo-advaitins that misunderstood the meaning of jaganmithya]

            let me try to sum up succinctly what i could understand until now under my blurred lens :

            This whole universe and it’s observational experiences are the very nature of one supreme conscious, eternal, blissful entity.
            Jivas are nothing but the reflection of this consciousness in the body/mind /intellect apparatus
            when the reflected consciousness starts interacting with this BMI complex it starts confusing itself to be the ‘other’ ..i am the body ..i am the mind ..i am mr x ..etc. and from here the game of almost endless confusion begins
            [ kindly note that none of this means that the reflected consciousness does not exist ..but only that it is not the Satyam, the existence of the world is not denied but the substance of the world is defined to be only one that is no other than brahman/atman]

            to me this sounds like a plausible answer [i do have questions against this philosophy too ..but it does solve many of the anomalies that i find in other philosophies]

            I think it;s wrong to deny scientists their due ..they have made valid observations ..99.999…% of an atom is space and the remaining part that isn;t appears sometimes as a wave and sometimes as a particle..it’s just information bytes conscious of each other’s placement in the entire universe!..the closer we move towards the absolute ..the more convinced we are of the non-secondness of this universe..duality is a matter of choice not a matter of fact!

            [but i agree that the problem with science is the problem of consciousness and observer...how can absolute consciousness empirically establish itself ...it's impossible ..the sooner they realize it the better]

            but what cannot be denied is that whole world is nothing but a dance of one unified consciousness ..

            having said that , the triumvirate of Ishvar , Soul and Prakriti is not denied from the relative perspective and jivas (us) SHOULD NOT disown this relative reality untill the Absolute reality is known..[ and i also agree that directly going to the jyaana marga is dangerous ..as unfortunately many of the neos are trying to teach these days..which leads to silly behaviors like fatalism and nihilism ]

            so essentially, i am not in disagreement on the need to focus on actions and Ishvar for humanity and emancipation

            it’s just that i believe that there is a NEXT STEP from this triumvirate ..and it must not be denied at the outset.

  3. Sandeep says

    But as per Advaita philosophy, the world is considered only as projection of eternal Brahman, like snake projected on real rope. Rope is true and even snake is true, but when we come to know falsehood of snake then we recognize the reality, that it is only a rope.

    I start believing that the world is as false as dream and as true as dream. In dream, everything is so real, we cry, laugh and that gets reflected in our physical body. So, why this world can not be like a dream?

    The velocity of neuron firing is only 200 km per sec. With this limited capacity of sense organ, right interpretation of world can not be given. We don’t know what lies as world and what lies inside us. Scriptures says there is only Brahman, Jagad is only projected. What we are seeing is nothing but Brahman, hence creation and destruction are also a play, a dream.

    Further, in Yogavashistha Ramayan, it is wonderfully explained the dreamy stature of the world. But as long as we can not experience this Turiya stage, we have to deal with real world as reality.

    • Indian Agnostic says

      quite right @Sandeep bro

      Just that the world is not negated by advaita ..it’s just that the substratum of the world is identified as Brahman alone.

      “all that there is is this brahman that alone is”

      • Sandeep says

        Dear I.A Bro

        I have seen a great video at you tube. By typing ‘holographic universe’ it could be watched. Even i have read a article that the world is just like a holograph and it does not exist outside mind i.e. whatever is seen, is not what we see. We even do not know what we see, hear, smell, touch and taste because these are all just firing of neuron. Why we are seeing, it is difficult to answer, whosoever knows they just say experience your self like Maharshi Raman. So, deep meditation on ‘I’ is the only way out.

        Unfortunately the two major religions Islam and Christian have totally digressed from the core objective and concentrate only on bloodshed and conversion.

  4. dragunov says

    is numerology mentionefd as per vedas? you can see shakuntala devi is a dab hand at correctly identifying ones birthdate simply by the mention of that individuals name, but is numerology superstition or is there evidence in vedas to suggest it may be true.

  5. vidya says

    Namaste.
    A question is bothering me since a few days,
    How is it that atma, parmatma and prakriti are eternal and exist on their own? i mean for example energy can be created nor destroyed, how can we explain their existance(energy,sout etc)??

    • Vajra says

      Namaste Sister Vidya
      Simplest way is to see the present scenario. Aatma, Paramaatma, and Prakriti look existent in present. So now it is due on those who think we will/did not exist in future/past that their point is valid.

      I reply it by counter questioning that how can you deny your existence when you know you exist? In your comment, “me” and “I” show that you believe yourself to be something which can be denoted by “I”. This is the proof of your existence.

      Denying your existence will again prove your existence because denying needs at least two opposite perspectives which are impossible in the world of absolute Zero!

      • vidya says

        Namaste

        Thanks for the response sister Vajra. But my question remains unanswered. I never asked proof for the existence but my curious mind is still pondering whats the mystery of the eternal existence of the atma parmatma and prakriti . We all know we are alive and one day we will all get decomposed to the five essential elements which will in turn split into atoms, eventually to electrons, protons and neutrons until what remains is only vacuum. As i mentioned, energy is something that can be considered as immortal, my question is whats the quality or thing that make it undestroyable. If we take the analogy of a kingdom with the supreme soul being the king and the soul being the subjects, and the planets, the universe being the creation of the king, i would ask what the secret behind having such a kingdom.

        • Vajra says

          Namaste Sister Vidya
          I gave you reply because you wrote- “how can we explain their existance(energy,sout etc)??”

          As far as “we” is concerned, its not just protons and neutrons alone but the alliance of a conscious entity and matter. This conscious entity is called Aatma. So now “we” = Aatma (soul) + Matter

          When one dies, matter and soul get disjoint and soul migrates to the other place and matter gets decomposed. But remember, nothing gets destroyed, i.e. existence of each atom remains. So same thing applies to soul also. It can never be destroyed.

          You asked what is the property which makes energy undestroyable, I would say that it (undestroyability) itself is a property so it does not need any further cause. For example, if one asks which property helps soul to be conscious, you will say consciousness. It has no further cause. And remember, the entities which do not have any further cause are beginningless and endless and thus Eeshvar, soul, and matter (smallest unit of material) fall in this category.

          And to know the secret of the kingdom, please visit http://agniveer.com/1985/why-did-god-create-us/

          • vidya says

            Thanks alot sister Vajra. You gave words to my thoughts. Your words and examples are perfect explanations. Its the same as numbers goes infinite, without any starting point. Thanks again. Your answer is a relief.

  6. Arup says

    Please agniveer clear to me then who creates nature and souls your explanation clear to me that god creats us like as an engineer than who creates the elements

  7. says

    I like the post…. But I have some questions about it… n please reffer rig veda (catur veda) to answer my questions.

    1) Above articel, I understand that Ishwar, Nature, Atman is 3 eternal entities. And what could be interpreted that the three entities is God in Hindu/Veda?

    2) In the article above, I can feel that for the creation of our solar system, the sun is the first object created. So if there is a question: Which are the first creation, the sun or the earth first first?

    So Can I answer that the sun was created first. If you can, then please specify in the sloka-veda which strengthens the response

    Oh ya….Where can I download / read the original rig veda?

    • truth seeker says

      @Agniveer/Other Scholar

      How can you say logically that Ishwar creates many number of humans in starting of creation not one single pare of man & women as Kuran says first human Aadam & eve? Please explain?

      • sanatanaakki says

        @ truth seeker

        I’m no scholar of Islam or Hinduism but one thought really ponders me is if Adam & Eve were the only two beings in this world made by Allah or Jesus..

        That means we are all son’s & Daughter’s of Adam & Eve… so here is my question…

        So according to this Logic Incest is allowed? coz after all our we are all Adam & Eve children that means when i marry a girl directly or indirectly she is my sister that means i’m in incest relationship.

        Don’t think i’m making fun of anything here i’m just curious about this logic…

        Thanks & Regards

        Akshay

        • truth seeker says

          @sanatanaakki/Vajra/Indian Agnostic/Agniveer/Other scholar/
          Very good logic incest is nonsense thing, but tell me more other logic if you know as asked above in question why there were many man & women in the inception of universe not single single pare of Aadam & Eve? And What about genetic differences? & Is there anything mention on this issue in Veda?

          • says

            Truth Seeker

            Although I think incest is enough but you can search for as many reasons as you want. For this you must compare both cases and then analyse the scenario

            1. Many a times a mother dies while giving birth. And in the absence of advanced medical facilities, the probability of a mother dying while delivery is very high. So multiple pairs would ensure the survival of mankind which might not be the case with one pair.

            2. Humans grow and develop in societies. So multiple pairs have edge over single pair in this regard too.

            One may think of more, you should yourself try for more now as you have got enough seed to grow your own tree of thoughts :)

            All the best

            And I have replied to your Eeshvar and soul query here http://satyagni.com/1985/why-did-god-create-us/#comment-9797

            Thanks

      • says

        Namaste Truth Seeker

        As Brother Sanatanakki rightly said, Adam Eve theory encourages incest. Imagine the very next generation after Adam and Eve who were siblings (direct brothers-sisters mutually), married each other :( So all Chriatians and Muslims feel proud to be called as result of incest though Quran prohibits it!

        On the other hand, in Vedic theory, many Adams and Eves existed in the starting and thus there was no need for marriage b/w brothers and sisters :)

  8. abhijeet says

    Hinduism is a peaceful and tolerant religion. Because it is a composite religion, it has no issues with dogmatic religions which are based on the teachings of a founder or prophet. Its broader religious and philosophical base allows it to find parallels within other religions and coexist with them without feeling threatened or the compulsion to establish its superiority. Hindus are perhaps the only people in the world who have never launched an aggression on other nations on religious grounds. And Hinduism is perhaps the only religion in the world that survived over 700 years of Islamic oppression and 400 years of Christian propaganda.

  9. abhijeet says

    Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high.
    Where knowledge is free.
    Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
    By narrow domestic walls.
    Where words come out from the depth of truth.
    Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection.
    Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
    Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit.
    Where the mind is led forward by Thee
    Into ever-widening thought and action.
    Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
    -Rabindranath Tagore

  10. abhijeet says

    Who is a “minority” in the present global context? A community may be numerically small relative to the local population, but globally it may in fact be part of the majority that is powerful, assertive and well-funded. Given that India is experiencing a growing influx of global funding, political lobbying, legal action and flow of ideologies, what criteria should we use to classify a group as a “minority”? Should certain groups, now counted as minorities, be reclassified given their enormous worldwide clout, power and resources? If the “minority” concerned has actually merged into an extra-territorial power through ideology (like Maoists) or theology (like many churches and madrassas), through infrastructure investment (like buying large amounts of land, buildings, setting up training centers, etc.), through digital integration and internal governance, then do they not become a powerful tool of intervention representing a larger global force rather than being simply a “minority” in India. Certainly, one would not consider a local franchise of McDonalds in India to be a minor enterprise just because it may employ only a handful of employees with modest revenues locally. It is its global size, presence and clout that are counted and that determine the rules, restrictions and disclosure requirements to which it must adhere. Similarly, nation-states’ presence in the form of consulates is also regulated. But why are foreign religious MNCs exempted from similar requirements of transparency and supervision? (For example: Bishops are appointed by the Vatican, funded by it, and given management doctrine to implement by the Vatican, and yet are not regulated on par with diplomats in consulates representing foreign sovereign states.) Indian security agencies do monitor Chinese influences and interventions into Buddhist monasteries in the northern mountain belt, because such interventions can compromise Indian sovereignty and soft power while boosting China’s clout. Should the same supervision also apply to Christian groups operating under the direction and control of their western headquarters and Islamic organizations funded and/or ideologically influenced by their respective foreign headquarters? What should India do to improve and deliver social justice in order to secure its minorities and wean them away from global nexuses that are often anti-Indian.

  11. says

    Adam and Eve theory does not attract for me because of the fate of Egypt. Once upon a time it was a great nation, with a very good architecture, the pyramids, the Pharaohs…. But they died for some unknown reason. Later the mummies were analysed to know the reason. And they found a sort of genetic disorder…. Such disorder is noticed in case of children from the siblings..

    Thats why I belief there wont be one pair at the begining. Rather many…

    • truth seeker says

      @Akhila
      Brother Islamic theory senction the incest, few day before I read a story in newspaper that A muslim named Ali in west Bangal married his 15 year old daughter & made her pregnant. When police inquired to him he said he received divine sanction from Allah in dream to have sex with his daughter as Mohamad received divine revelation to have sex with his daughter in law. & due to divine sanction from Allah police could not do anything. Islam believe in incest theory & muslim can sex even his mother. In adam & Hava theory, Hava (Eve) took the birth from Aadam body that means Hava (Eve) is daughter of Aadam but Aadam made pregnant to her daughter. In Islam there no civilization one can do sex with anybody mother & sister relation does not matter.

      • Vik says

        @truth seeker

        Namaste brother, very well said, moreover, hindus consider a sister brother relation very pious, this is why they have a special day called RakshaBandhan where a sister ties a bond of love to her brother. Now, this Adam Eve story is an insult to that day. Sadly, there are some hindu purans that show the same story too, but I do not remember its name. I would appreciate if someone could tell me its name. Anyways, the Vedic philosophy of many humans being created at inception is far more logical to all of us.

  12. Akhila Padhi says

    one thing is very clear, islam is not a religion, its just a military of arab. They want to win by hook or by cook. Thats why there is appraisal for mass killing, rape, etc.

    But here we had a different topic. I am ignorat of true vedic philosophy. I am on this site to get some knowledge, but end up with islam..

    • truth seeker says

      @Akhila Padhi
      Brother for getting Veda knowledge you should read agniveer Article on Vedic God, & Agniveer had published many Mantra of Ishopanishad. Further I you should go vedmandir.com website where Swami Ramswaroop gives answer based on Veda asked by different user & You can visite website Arya Samaj Jamanagar where you can read all Veda in Hindi.

  13. Sachin R says

    Hi Guys,
    Well i know the Jesiwh, Christian & Muslim stand on creation, i.e Adam & Eve etc. Just wanted to know what Veda’s talk about creation. What actually happened at creation ????

  14. Aditi says

    Sorry if this looks a bit out of context. I want to know why rocks in the Gran Canyon USA called – Vishnu Schist, Brahma and Rama Schists?

  15. KalBhairav says

    On Infinite Regress:

    Maybe I should make this into a separate post…but here are some thoughts on infinite regress. Abrahamics usually use this to argue for a universe that “began to exist” while however not admitting that their God also “began to exist”. These arguments are stupid cases of special pleading.

    There are two types of infinite regress. One is what is called a “benign” infinite regress. This would be, for instance, the set of natural numbers. Why are they “benign”? They are benign because we can take any number and we know exactly how that number will behave. For instance, we can add 1 to that number, we can subtract 1 from that number, etc., etc. So, in principle, we know exactly how each number behaves. They behave in exactly the same fashion as every other number.

    Yet another example of “benign” infinite regress is the common chicken and egg problem. Which came first? Chicken or the egg? We could say chicken or we could say egg. But both of these are dogmatic positions without any evidence. In this situation, it is more reasonable to accept that both of these alternated forever back in time as chicken – egg – chicken – egg – ad infinitum.

    Then, there is a “vicious” type of infinite regress and this arises when the very elements of the regress are impossible to define. For instance, consider the following: A set that contains all sets. Now, is this set part of itself? If not, let us include this set in another bigger set. But then, the same problem arises. Is this bigger set a part of itself? So, here, we have a problem with even accepting an individual member of the regress. This regress is “vicious” and problematic.

    A temporal infinite regress is a benign kind because each element of the regress is well-defined.

    Abrahamic apologists like William Lane Craig and others use the cosmological argument and argue that the universe began to exist but really, their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny.

    If God is admitted to be eternal, there is no reason not to admit…

    • KalBhairav says

      On Infinite Regress: – Completing the post

      If God is admitted to be eternal, there is no reason not to admit the eternality of the universe too.

    • says

      @Namste Brother Mritunjay Read this article and let us know if you still feel that the Understanding Self in Hinduism (33)Truth Seeker: @Namaste Agniveer Ji, Agniveer Ji, is any work in psorregs Hindi translation

  16. Sanjeev Verma says

    I think that there are some great articles in this website. I have to be honest that I have not read them yet but would do so soon. Yesterday I was trying to wrte a blog on my thinking on the word Hindu and Hinduism. I prefer the word Sanatan or Vedia instead of Hinduism–the
    word Hinduism confuses me a lot regarding my own identity. Here is what I wrote:

    We need to be careful when we use the term “Hindu” and “Hinduism”. I do not know what the origin of word Hindu is—I read in my high school books that this word was coined to describe everyone who lives across or near river “Sindhu” –however it is not clear to me why river “Sindhu” is not called “Hindu”.
    I would not go into the debate regarding the origin of this word “Hindu”. However, things become different once we add suffix “ism” to the word “Hindu”. This suffix points to a certain philosophy—like “socialism”, “communism”, “capitalism” etc. We can’t attribute a certain philosophy with the word “Hinduism”. It has become an all-inclusive term. It includes those who believe in vegetarianism (Vaishnavas) and at the same time it includes those who eat meat and drink liquor (Shaivas). Similarly, it includes those who believe in Idol worship and those who consider idol worship as greatest sin ( Aryasamajis). This means that it would be wrong to use word “Hinduism”. In fact, there is no mention of word “Hindu” in the books associated with “Hinduism”—like “Gita”, “Ramayan” and “Vedas” This leaves us with an open question—What is the source of this word “Hindusim? As per my understanding the word “Hinduism” was used by foreign invaders to describe the religious practices of those living in “Aryavarta”. The various “idols” used in our temples point to the tribal past of our country. There is some influence of “Vedic” philosophy on the religious practices of various tribes and that seems to be the only factor that ties everyone together. Hence I do not find anything wrong when a Sikh says that he is not a Hindu. We had only a Manav Dharama – a set of…

  17. Confused mind says

    I am personally not too happy with any of these arguments and counter arguments. Words like ‘God is omnipotent’, ‘there is purpose in life’ and ‘God is compassionate’ are too boring and hollow to hear. I believe that there is something that holds the universe and life. But i think this is nothing but the collective set of souls themselves that feels the pain when world becomes too hard to live. It is this deep feeling of pain in many people that causes a messiah or sage to be born who gives solace to humans for some time. But this is again temporary. They are not going to liberate living beings from the cycle of birth and death. I don’t see any purpose in life and I don’t think god has created us. Purpose is what an individual feels: no one can impose a purpose that he thinks, on others perhaps he can, because that is his nature. Salvation or enlightenment being too difficult to attain even for human beings, is it really worth the effort? May be, it again depends on the individual. There are millions of species in the world which do not have the necessary brains to think and meditate. Who is going to help them? God has definitely not created them and the very idea of God being compassionate seems irritating when we see all this and the state of the world. When creation is going to continue endlessly (no beginning and no end) forever, what is the use of trying to attain salvation? It may bring temporary relief for a few. When we consider the fact that despite all the efforts of sages in telling the right way of living, people continue the way they are and world is only becoming worse and worse. This itself will make people feel hopelessly helpless and this collective pain of people will create a super human being who we call God. Whatever it is I don’t see any purpose in life, because millions of souls have been left to exist in illusion and they will continue to suffer from one yuga to another.

    • says

      Namaste Confused Mind

      ——-‘there is purpose in life’ …. too boring and hollow to hear.——-

      Can you convince any of us as to why should you be replied or even listened seriously given that you dont have any purpose behind this discussion?

      Hope you understand fallacy in your logic. Once you reply, I will try to respond to rest of your comment.

      • Confused mind says

        I have already given the reason why there is no purpose. Purpose is something that we think of based on our intellectual capacity and our aspiration. I feel, no one can impose or convince another that this or that is the purpose. Although almost everyone wants permanent bliss and so we could say that the purpose of life is to attain permanent bliss, just see the reality. How many are able to reach that state of permanent bliss. And, creation is an eternal process, as you have said right in the beginning. Even if we attain moksha, Ishwara is going to create living beings after every pralaya. There can be no end to this process of creation and destruction. If there is a final end to it, then it is crazy that the process started long time ago. I personally would like to attain that state of moksha because, I just as most others, want happiness. But I’m not too clear what purpose it serves. What about millions of others and lower lives (animals, birds, microbes etc.) ?.

        Secondly, if individual souls are there waiting to be created as humans by Ishwar, to work out their karma, who created these souls. How many souls are there? Is it constant or does it grow with time ? Is there no one who can control the growth of number of souls ? How these individual souls came into being? Ishwar does not seem to have any control over the existence or multiplication or destruction of these souls. Which means there could be another higher entity who is responsible for multiplying these souls. If we say that the one cosmic soul multiplies itself, then it simply means that the Oneness of that cosmic soul is not a desirable or stable state for it and that is why it is multiplying this way and getting trapped in to this illusion. So, what is the point in doing something against what is naturally happening ? Oneness seems to be an unstable and helpless state and that is why soul multiplies.

        Every spiritual master says we should try to get out from this illusion through spiritual practice. If illusion or maya cannot be destroyed…

  18. Confused mind says

    continued…..
    If illusion or maya cannot be destroyed and going to be exist permanently, then what is the point in all this spiritual exercise. It is of course everyone’s desire to be happy ever after, but maya cannot be destroyed and even if I get moksha, there will always be people and other living beings who will continue to suffer from illusion, because Nature will never cease to exist.

    So, my feeling is that people who talk about spirituality will continue to do so, because they have faith in it and hope to get liberation some time, in this birth or another birth. And there will be many other varieties of people who would do what appeals to them as right. This variety among people is going to continue in any case… A person may put in spiritual efforts when he finds this worldly existence painful. And this painful experience may happen to different individuals at different times and different births. Worldly existence will drag on this way till at some point no body will be happy and everyone would want to attain liberation and this may be the time of pralaya. But what next?… That cosmic soul is going to continue the process once again….

    • confused mind says

      There could be a different process not undestandable to human mind, operating. Grace may be beyond comprehension and destiny alone may not be the deciding factor in one’s life. My belated apologies for passing on my confused thoughts in this forum.

  19. Confused mind says

    There is one more point I want to mention here:— I have frequently read in books on spirituality that everything is decided before birth. And, some times I hear of some great saints that they know your past, present and future. If this is the case then there is nothing to be achieved. Whatever we do and think of as our achievement is only as per our destiny. We might think we have achieved something but it was actually as per our destiny, even the very thought that we achieved is as per our destiny.

    If we say that not everything is pre-decided, then it means God is not omniscient. He cannot not be all-knowing, if some aspects of our future were left undecided and left to the individual to decide and perform. This would be a blemish to God’s personality because we thought he knows everything and he is all-powerful.

    All the lessons on spirituality are good for people to be good to each other and society to be peaceful, but I still believe that there is no such thing as ultimate purpose or final solution to all the miseries that we see and experience.

  20. dave says

    hi agniveer, i just have a question on this article. You did not mention mahapralaya. when after 100 creation dissolution cycles the entire universe then remains in sushupti for the same time. can you clarify whether mahapralaya happens or is it just creation dissolution forever? thanks

    • says

      Khandapralayas and Mahapralayas both happen as per texts. We did not mention all this to ensure readability. The focus was to offer conceptual understanding that is intuitive and logical and avoid purely textual references. In any case these textual references cannot be verified by ordinary mortals.

  21. dave says

    agniveer, thanks for replying, what i should have asked was; is the concept of mahapralaya(death of brahma) after 100 cycles mentioned in 4 vedas?(if you do not know then its fine)

    • says

      Dear dave

      Mahapralay does not mean Death of Brahma. Dissolution of Prakriti to the smallest Paramanus (smallest unit of matter) is called Mahapralay. And dissolution of Prakriti to the states of Water/Fire/Air is called Khandpralay.

      There is no mention of Mahapralay after 100 cycles in Vedas. However 1000 Chaturyugis (1 Chaturyugi = four Yugas- Sat, Treta, Dwapar, Kali) constitute a Brahm Diwas (total time for which universe exists) and same time is of Bram Ratri (state of dissolution/Mahapralay).

      Thanks

      • Truth Seeker says

        @Vajra
        Brother, Vajra I have also one query whether space is part of Prakriti. I was not student of science but I think space is not part Prakriti.

        • says

          Brother Truth Seeker

          You are right. Space is not the part of Prakriti but something in which Prakriti resides. Space is nothing but Shoonya/absence of Prakriti/matter.

          Bro KB, thanks for providing link and Nyaya’s take on Space.

  22. Srinivas-At HIS Service says

    Pranaams!!
    I am deeply proud of this heritage, and enjoy absorbing this knowledge wherever I get it from. Agniveer has not only satiated this thirst, but rather made me more thirsty. :)
    Anyways, with regards to this topic, I heard this most amazing answer by HH Swami Chinmayananda.
    “Creation is for HIS Re-creation”.
    Humans suffer only because they take seriously, what the Gods made for fun. Its HIS play. Be playful to realize God.
    Om Anandaya Namah!!

    One has to be carefull in understanding the word “play”, lest some radicalist dilute the meaning and use it to trash the culture as they have been doing so many times in this website.
    Only a true seeker can understand the imports of this Great Knowledge, for others it just remains information.

  23. says

    Dyabimau purusau loke ksharaskshara aba cha/
    kshar sarbani vutani kutastho akshar uchyate/
    uttam purushasto anya iti paramatma udarita// Bhagwat Gita 15 ad.

    There are two purush:
    -Kshar-Perishable
    -Akshar-imperishable (brahm/Truth component of Absolute lord)
    – but Uttam purush is far from Akshar, so he is Aksharatit purush/Uttam purush (purna brahm/supreme Truth) (Aksharat parat: para:)

    Aksharatit brahm (purna brahma) – supreme Truth (Sat+Chid+Anand)
    Sat part- Akshar brahm (super creator)
    Chid part-Supreme Lord Himself in young age (kishor sorup/amarad surat)
    Ananda part-His concert (shyamaji and her part 12000 brahm aatmas)

    Akshar brahm: (four antakaran part):
    Satsorup Brahm-Aham part
    Kewal Brahm-budhi part
    Sablik Brahm-Chitta part
    Abyakrit Brahm-Man part

    -Akshar Brahm duty is to create and destroy innumerable universes within a blink like a child cuz his sorup is child sorup.
    -From Akshar brahm (Abyakrit brahm part) appeared Adhi-Narayan
    (through hiranya garba process)
    -From Adhi Narayan appeard Sesh Sahi Bhagwan
    -From sesh sahi narayan appeard GOD:brahma, bisnu and Mahesh
    -then sristi for 14 lokas

    See Birat:

    -Aksharatit Uttam purush: Imperisble State (both Aksharatit & Akshar in within 25 pakshas and distance between paramdham and akshar dham is 9 lac kosh)
    -Akshar Purush: Imperishable State
    -Satsorup Brahm: lila like paramdham
    -Kewal Brahm: lila like paramdham
    -Sablik Brahm: Akhand Raas & Braj lila is here
    -Abyakrit Brahm:

    Kshar purush level : upto this level is under final dissolution (maha pralaya)
    -Adhi-Narayan (Maha Bisnu)
    -Maha Tatwa
    -Sunya:sat sundya
    -Gyan sakti Gayetri
    -Jyoti sorup
    -8 elements layer (5+3)
    -Seshsahi-Narayan in khir sagar
    -Brahma, Bishnu & Mahesh
    -14 Lokas
    -7 upper heaven
    -7 lower heaven

    This universe is third universe called awakening universe because there are 12000 brahm aatmas and 24000 Ishworiya aatma playing in this particular universe.
    -In the first stage braj lila universe-kalmayik universe which is destroyed after lila of 12 year and 52 days lila of sri krishna
    -In the second stage Raas lila which is happended in the yogmayik universe which is parmanently recorded in the Mahakaran part of Sablik Brahm.
    -In the third state, this awakening universe created and in this universe 11 days lila happended by Akshar brahma and it has still been continuing till final dissolution.

    -This secret truth appears only through TARTAM GYAN (tartamyena janati sachhidananda lakshanam)
    which is revealed by Absolute lord himself as per the time given by sastra
    -avabino vabisyanti munayo brahma rupine/
    utpanne te kaliyuge pradhan purush aasraya// Hari bansa puran

    -this supreme truth revealed knowledge is within sri krishna pranami (nijanand).
    For more information
    http://www.nijanand.org

  24. dave says

    dear agniveer or anyone else, jus t 1 quesytion :

    Also earth is not the only place to have life. There are innumerable earths in universe and souls keep moving from one to another as per their deeds.

    by innumerable what type of figure do u mean? like theres something like trillions and trillions of earths i the universe? please enlighten. thanks

  25. dave says

    dear agniveer or anyone else, jus t 1 quesytion :

    Also earth is not the only place to have life. There are innumerable earths in universe and souls keep moving from one to another as per their deeds.

    by innumerable what type of figure do u mean? like theres something like trillions and trillions of earths i the universe? please enlighten. thanks

    – alsp humans are on these innumerable earths just like here?

    • krishnarao says

      According to the Vedas there is life in many parts of the world. Only things is, at this time humans have not discovered it, but we will. And also Dharmic people do believe in the parallel universe concept that theoretical physics is just catching up to.

      And the kind of figures on these other planets, we do not know. We just know there is life out there. And with how vast the universe is, that is coming more and more apparent.

  26. says

    Greetings from Carolina! I’m bored to death at work so I decided to check out your site on my iphone during lunch break. I enjoy the knowledge you provide here and can’t wait to
    take a look when I get home. I’m amazed at how quick your blog loaded on my mobile .. I’m not even using WIFI,
    just 3G .. Anyhow, amazing site!

  27. Ankit says

    Thank you. Finally, this is the first time i got to know and understand rationally that why god created us and what is the reality and how does it works.
    Other foolish answer which we got from other sources were like god made us to worship him, to test us, he loves us..blah blah. Their logic was that first god has some emotion for us (love, worship), and then he created us. So as per their logic, first they tell that god loved “us” (i dnt knw who was “us” at that point of time bcoz god did nt created us at that time), and then he made our soul to love us.Of course god loves us, but he did nt made us to love us! We are eternal part of Ishwar! After agniveer’s explanation through vedas, i am very much satisfied to know the logical truth….Thanx a lot agniveer…..
    Jai Shree Krishna!

  28. Slave of none says

    @Islam Is Great
    Why should one fear Allah? Why should one embrace Islam to be saved?
    Get out take a deep breath of pure oxygen, this may help. Clogged brain will start functioning again and you won’t be anyone slave again. God has chosen you not to be anyone slave, just look the liberty around you and you’ll immediately find that he don’t want you to be anyone slave and neither his also. Remember fresh oxygen helps to dis lock locked mind and it’s free so give a try. God bless you.

    • Abdu Rasul says

      @Slave of non
      Aryan are worst of creature because they are non-believer in prophet. Allah will punish them for not fearing from him. We are all slave of Allah.

      • Jin says

        @abdul rasul
        Keep saying the same thing again and again. No one cares of your lies. The word ‘Aryan’ never existed.

        • Abdu Rasul (Slave of Prophet) says

          @Jin
          We Muslim do not care you believe or not we are just preaching religion of Allah and doing duty which was awarded by prophet to us. Prophet said in his last sermon there should no other religion than Islam. We are to make whole world Dar-u-l Islam (House of believers)

      • Slave of none says

        Bro Rasul, I respect your belief and you should respect others belief also. Nothing is confirmed, if you believed the holy quran to be word of gods and islam is religion of god then that’s because of your faith nothing more nothing less. Likeswise, I have the choice to believe in the holy quran (tho i believe) but I’m free to express my feelings, my faith am not bounded by any books or other people who brain washes me. I I have few questions if you would want to answer honestly
        1. Is not beating Satan with rock an act of idolatry?
        2. Is not praying in the direction of the holy mecca a sort of idolatry?
        3. Why should one kiss the black stone? Is not that idolatry?
        4. Why did the prophet married a child who did not even menstruate, he could have adopted her as his daughter rather than sleeping on her belly?
        The list continues bro but I really do not mean to embarrass you, so please forgive if I hurt your faith., though it’s not my intention. You could be a good person just by not hurting or pestering others.

  29. dave says

    hi agniveer, this may sound like a peculiar question but as we all know that prakriti(nature) is the root cause of all ‘matter’. but what is this prakriti made of?

  30. Deepak says

    Dear Sir,

    With all due respect to the article, there are two many default assumptions / presumptions in the article which is not backed by any scientific evidence or observation. Arriving at conclusions based on assumptions (based on vedas or otherwise) will restrict us in the journey towards search of truth.

    1. No scientific evidence exist to conclusively prove that a ‘soul’ exist. Our whole understanding of the existence of ‘soul’ just comes from the old literature and assumptions / presumptions of the mind. When we do not even know whether something called as ‘soul’ exist, what would be the basis to say that the ‘soul’ is eternal? We can’t say ‘soul’ is eternal by thinking that it is eternal, we need to prove it.

    2. No basis to say that the universe was created by someone. Why do we by default believe/ assume that universe was created by god? Why don’t we ever assume that the universe could be created by a very advance civilization? Can’t there exist much advanced civilizations that are capable of creating universes? In future the technology with humans may advance to such an extent that we would be in a position to create galaxies and suns at will. So what makes us think ishwar created universe vs. an advance human civilization having created it?

    3. The existence of God is a belief of mankind, not necessary that God exist. We can’t come to conclusions based on beliefs with experimentation and scientific analysis.

    If we had shown the ‘internet’ capabilities to someone in the 16th century, they would have thought that god has created it. But humans have created internet. Same applies to universe. Because we don’t know who, how or why it got created, we are assuming by default that god created it.

    Time for us to get rational and search for real answers.

  31. dave says

    hi can anyone help me with this query that I have, I found out from English translation of dr tulsi ram I purchased from agniveer that nature (which god uses to create everything)is ‘inexhaustible’. Now I want to get a mental picture in my head of how creation happens, (keeping aside the details such as how Mahan is the first of seven evolutes arising from nature), I want to get a mental picture, so when literally there is infinite darkness then from nothingness(i.e gunas) there is physical manifestation? then once creation is complete then what happen to the rest of nature(bear in mind it is limitless) does god keep it inside him? would not the rest of nature interfere with the ‘physical’ creation? sorry if I am sounding too vague but I need to know this thanking you.

          • dave says

            thanks for replying, however what is your ‘reasoning’ to tilt toward that particular understanding of unlimited ‘too big for us to measure’ as opposed to the other meaning?

        • says

          reference devichand http ://archive. org/stream/yajurveda029670mbp/yajurveda029670mbp_djvu. txt
          —–chap4.25.
          I adore God, the Creator of the Earth and Sky, the Source of all
          Knowledge, the Embodiment of Splendour, the Sustainer of all the
          beautiful planets, the Centre of love, the object of praise by the Vedas,
          and their Revealer. His lofty effulgent Self is divulged in the created
          world. He has fixed the bright sun and the moon in their conduct. He
          is the wisest Actor. His mercy grants us happiness. O God I worship
          Thee as Bestower of happiness on mankind. May all mortals enjoy life,
          through Thee. May Thou grant life to all human beings.”
          .
          .
          where unlimited is written ?

          • dave says

            this is why I was referring to dr tulsi rams translation, but in reality this translation you have put is not wrong either, because as you know any ved mantra can have literally so many meanings , nonetheless for ease of mind I will show you the translation I have:

            for the love of the people I adore the lord of light, creator of earth and heaven and the middle regions of the skies, the eternal poet who composed this wonderful world of paradisal beauty and truth adorned with the jewels of life from his inexhaustible treasure of nature, lord so dear to the learned and the wise, the brilliant manifestation of whose existential form blazes in the heaven above and the earth below which he made. With his infinite mercy he created the regions of bliss for the people, the creatures he created and loved. The people adore you, lord, with their breath of life. Lord of the golden bough in both hands, bless the people with the breath and energy of life existential as well as eternal.

            Like I said though, both meanings of the mantras are correct because there may be even more meanings we can take from this and all the other mantras.

  32. dave says

    I mean to say that actually the word used in the translation is ‘inexhaustible’ , nonetheless it means the same. every place iv searched the meaning comes to be that it is reference to something that cannot ‘run out’, so how can the meaning be too great too measure? what is the reasoning?

      • says

        inexhaustible need not mean infinite in size. It may mean ‘ever lasting’, ‘tough’. So, this reference does not support infinite size.

        However, creation is not infinite in size. Time and space are infinite in size. A creation that expanded from bramha can never occupy infinite space. It can just keep expanding to great size.
        Also, an infinite creation can have an earth of infinite size and population of infinite size on earth.But, we see limits to everything in nature. so, creation has limits to its size (axiomatic thinking). It may not have limits in time.

        • dave says

          you are more than welcome to check any dictionary or website and we will see how inexshaustible is defined, i.e an amount of something that cannot be used up or something that has limitless energy. no website whatsoever explains inexhaustible as ‘everlasting’ or ‘tough’ . (though that may be a far out synonym.) I think the writer has also mentioned in another mantra that the sun (aryama) and vayu(wind) provide inexhaustible energy. so the mantra translator clearly uses inexhaustible in the latter sense,. however you did not explain to me WHY you say nature is limited amount. please can you explain? (with support from ved mantras If possible as I have given mantra in support of my argument)

          the rest of your explanation is not relevant to the topic. creation may well be finite in size although the matter at hand here is that whether nature is limited or not.

          • says

            As i said,

            Time and space are infinite in size. A creation that expanded from bramha can never occupy infinite space. It can just keep expanding to great size.

            This is a logical understanding.

            I do not know any vedic mantars that support the finite size of creation. I am sorry.

  33. dave says

    yes , I agree time and space are infinite in size . so is god. I totally agree that creation is limited because the total number of jivas is constant and hence god does not need to create an infinite creation because it is not required. however this doesn’t necessarily mean that nature would be limited. he may issue forth the creation from within himself and then keep the remaining within himself.

    • Narayan says

      Dear Dave, Namaste!

      How can you say that the totoal number of jivas is limited. What support do we have to assert this? Creation might be limited as it occupies space. Paramatma is infinite means that he doesn’t have any shape or size. Paramatma pervades through this whole creation doesn’t mean that paramatma doesn’t exist outside of this creation.

      Dhanyawaad!

      • dave says

        indeed! the total number of jivas could be infinite. your argument could be correct, how do we make sure of this? by tallying up with vedas to get the truth.

  34. dave says

    dear ashish/veera you can see what the mantra is saying, do you agree now that nature is unlimited? (i.e. nature not the actual creation itself)

  35. Abhishek says

    I am worried about my past and future and therefore cannot live in reality and accept my fate that i will cease to exist one day. since you’ve prepared for and got selected in IIT i would also like to add that i am right now preparing for JEE Mains and Advanced. But because of those thoughts coming in my mind i cannot study properly. I think that if i have to cease to exist one day why does anything really matter. I am neither atheist nor a theist i’ll be glad if you explain to me life,death,afterlife,goals, achievements and purpose of existence really logically. I also think about my loved ones dying one day. Tell what should i DO.I’ll be really happy if you help me. I also think that will it really matter if i die at the age of 16 or 100?And that’s when dangerous thoughts start to emerge in my mind about suicide and all if i’m unable to achieve what i want to. (Good College). So i need your help about that as well. I know I’m on the wrong path please guide me to the right. You’ll REALLY SAVE MY LIFE.
    Thanks in advance.

  36. Abhishek says

    So I was seeing all of this a lot lately. I am trying to find my purpose in life. I really get scared by thoughts of dying and seeing my loved ones die one day. Could you help me out. And Since you’re an IITian as well I would like to add that I am also preparing JEE but because of all these thoughts coming in my mind i cannot study properly. I think that if everything is going to be lost one day and we’re going to forget them one day then what’s the point of learning at all. I am also scared about JEE exam and I think that if i dont crack it then suicide might be the last option. as i afraid of struggles as well. Any help would be appreciated.I am very young and I know you’re one of those few people who can really help me out. Please guide me, I am on the wrong path :( . If you help you’ll really save my life.
    Thanks in Advance

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