Note: By Quran we imply the modern Quran and its translations as patronized by dominant representatives of Islam like Zakir Naik et al. There are alternate interpretations by minority scholars who are considered apostates by these dominant representatives and are victimized. These minority views do not form focus of the article. Similarly by Islam and Muslims we mean dominant version of Islam and their representatives/ rulers.

Idols are considered to be another means of representing and meditating upon the Ultimate Ishwar/God which cannot be easily appreciated by human minds. Thus humans created idol of God to show their respect to Him and offer their gratitude. Vedas however do not prescribe idol worship because they offer alternate and more effective means to worship and thank God – through noble actions, noble thoughts and noble emotions. The Vedic approach also saves us from various potential pitfalls of idol worship like human tendency to attempt to fool God by assuming that his/her job is done after the bowing down or ritual of worship. It also ensures that dumb minds do not start taking an idol to be actually God and not mere a piece of stone. And most importantly, the Vedic view is that the root cause of all grief is ignorance or Avidya. And eradication of Avidya implies that everything should be considered what it exactly is. Thus a formless Ishwar must be worshipped like a formless entity alone, through Yogic methods, to achieve salvation.

Nonetheless, Vedas, while not recommending idol worship, are also not intolerant to those who perform idol worship. The only means that Vedas prescribe to eradicate the habit of idol worship is through spread of Vidya or true knowledge, compassionate relationship among all humans like that between mother and child, and allowing time and space for each soul to discover the truth by itself rather than being forced to believe in something through threat or force. That is why, in Vedic culture, while many saints and scholars have been worshippers of formless Ishwar and many others have been idol worshippers, they have debated with each other in peaceful and cordial manner to come closer to truth without terming each other as Hell-seekers, apostates or scoundrels. This is the way of the civilized as inspired from the Vedas.

There is however one cult – fanatic Islam – that claims to be completely monotheistic and against idol worship and has had a history of banning idol-worship through all possible forceful and deceitful means. Idol worship, as per Islam, is greatest sin. And if someone worships an idol, despite he or she being how-so-much noble, gentle, saintly or good-hearted, there is no way he or she can go to Heaven and will have to burn in Hell forever. The doors of Heaven are closed forever for a person, who despite the best qualities, is an idol worshipper. And he or she has no choice but to burn in Hell forever and drink boiled water till eternity. A rapist, pedophile, murderer, cheat can still have access card to enter Heaven if he shuns idol worship and embraces Quran, Muhammad, Allah without idols, Angels and Judgment Day without any application of brain.

So much has been paranoia against idol worship in Islam, that even pictorial or artistic representation of any animate entity is haram or banned.

In this article, we shall not analyze idol worship in general or the cause of hatred of Islam against idol worshippers. We would simply analyze if indeed Muslims are not idol worshippers? As we shall see, it is impossible for anyone to be a Muslim without being an idol worshipper. And the greatest example of this idol worship is Kaba worship. No Muslim can be a Muslim if he does everything else as per Quran, but refuses to bow down to Kaba in his passion to avoid idol worship of all forms.

Our dear old friend, Zakir Bhai, gives 6 arguments to prove that Kaba worship in reality is not worship. The arguments are as intelligent as his overall intellect exhibited in his other articles and videos. (Though I still admire the confidence with which he puts forth the most stupid argument, and still gets a big applause from his semi-literate audience. I wish I had the same shameless confidence or had access to such a great audience that would clap on my silliest PJ’s!)

For novices to Islam, let me set the context. Kaba is a square building in Mecca which is the most sacred place for a Muslim. Kaba used to be worshipped in a set ritualistic manner since ages before advent of Muhammad. And while Muhammad tried to stop almost prevalent practices of his times, he curiously allowed continuation of the same Kaba worship and kissing of black stone there. The other practice that he continued to be allowed was circumcision. While all the Mecca dwellers were butchered by Muhammad’s army in ‘Holy’ war (Zakir Naik gives evidence of Vedas to prove that Muhammad killed 60,000 people of Mecca!), still he could not stop the Kaba worship in same ritualistic manner, perhaps because the affection of the people towards Kaba in that era was too strong to be mellowed down by sword. So an exception was made for Kaba in Muhammad’s Islam. And hence, if you want virgins of Heaven, better not ask any questions and simply go round the Kaba without applying your mind.

(I have just provided gist of story as propounded by Islamic scholars. I personally do not believe in Muhammad being author of all verses in present Quran in first place)

So here are the brilliant arguments of Zakir Naik. (Note that we will not dwell into whether the black stone is washed after kissing by so many people, or the hygiene aspects of millions of people kissing the same stone and mixing each other’s saliva. Zakir Naik having been an MBBS sometime ago, may evaluate this better.)

Argument 1. Kaba is Qibla (direction) and since we Muslims believe in unity, we face in the direction of Kaba while praying.

Comments:

a. Muslims believe in unity according to Zakir Naik! More than 100 sects of Islam today are in support of his claim! Sunni, Shia, Qadiyani, Khoja, Wahabi, Bohra…..all support him with unity! Can anyone still dare to ask him that if muslims were/are so united, how could more than 100 sects within Islam come into existence?

b. What is the need of unity during the prayers? Should not one be free to pray as per one’s own choice? If unity is required everywhere then why not eat, drink, and sleep at the same time and in same direction? If I want to pray in any direction, why will not God accept it?

c. Many Muslims pray alone in their houses most of the times. How does Qibla (direction) matter in this case when there is no one to get united?

d. Do Muslims actually have unity in direction while prayers? When a Muslim in east of Mecca faces west, at the same time a Muslim in west of Mecca faces east! Both face opposite to each other! If Zakir Naik says this as unity then two armies facing each other should also be considered as united and thus friends!

e. To which direction a Muslim will bow, who is just opposite of Mecca on spherical earth ? He has both options to bow to his east or west! How does the concept of unity work there?

f. Very few Muslims know that inside Kaba, no direction is needed. People can face and bow down to any direction they want. This exposes the fallacies of Zakir’s claim of unity blatantly. Zakir says that Muslims should bow down to one direction only, so that they can remain united. One can ask him; don’t Muslims inside Kaba need unity? And if they can remain united without bowing down to a common direction inside Kaba, why can’t they do it outside too?

g. This is very strange that after so much of efforts to remain united, today, most of the bombers and their victims are Muslims!

h. Uthmaan, third Caliph of Islam, compiler of modern Quran was killed by none other than Muslims led by Aisha’s brother and Abu Bakr’s son while he was offering prayer. Can there be a greater example of unity during prayers than this? (Remember that Aisha was Muhammad’s beloved child wife with whom Allah had divinely fixed his marriage!)

Argument 2. Kaba is at the centre of the earth.

Comments:

a. According to Zakir’s science, Kaba is at the centre of the globe but science says that every point on a sphere is geometrically same. In this way every place on earth is centre. If Zakir means equidistant from both poles, he is wrong. Kaba is at 21 degree north on globe which means that if it is at a distance of 30 units from North Pole, it has to be 50 units distant from South Pole!

b. Anyway, whatever may be the case with Kaba’s latitude and longitude, one thing is clear. There are infinite number of places on earth which either have same latitude or same longitude as that of Kaba. So there is no reason why Kaba should be given a special status.

Argument 3. We Muslims circumambulate the Kaba because it represents that there is only one God just like there is only one centre of a circle.

Comments:

a. Many hindus circumambulate their holy places. But then why is that Shirk in the eyes of Zakir Naik if circumambulation can mean “just believe in one God”?

b. During “Aarti”, a Hindu ritual, in which prayers are offered by devotee, the plate is moved around making circle with a unique centre! So Hindus also believe in one God and they show it by moving the plate so that it makes circle with one centre!

c. Can a Muslim circumambulate his house or a temple for this purpose? If yes, why do Muslims go for Hajj? How does circumambulation of the temple or a house different than that of Kaba?

d. Can Zakir Naik give any reference from Quran or Sahih Hadith, which supports his claim of “one centre-one God” concept behind circumambulation?

e. If I interpret the circumambulation as “a circle has infinite points inside it and thus there are infinite Gods in Islam”! How can Zakir refute my claim?

f. If circumambulation means “one centre-one God”, why don’t Muslims do it in their mosques along with their prayers every time? If one says that prayers already include One God philosophy then circumambulation at Hajj is needless as Muslims offer their prayers there too!

g. According to Zakir Naik, unique centre of a circle represents One God. Is it not Shirk to believe the centre of a circle similitude of God? If Muslims themselves believe in such representations of God, why do they condemn non Muslims for their idols? If such rituals in the name of One Allah can be accepted by Zakir Naik, why can’t he accept the idols as yet another representation of God’s different qualities in different forms?

Argument 4: Bukhari [2-56-675]-Umar told muslims that he kissed the black stone only because Muhammad did so, otherwise this stone can neither benefit me nor can it cause me harm. This is the proof that we Muslims don’t worship the Kaba.

a. Now Zakir Naik has the testimony of Umar that, kissing black stone is not idol worship because there is nothing special about that stone other than Muhammad kissed it. Can we ask, why did Muhammad kiss the stone then? There must be something special with the black stone so that Muhammad kissed it.

Umar sees nothing special with black stone and thus Zakir says kissing it is not idol worship! By the same logic, since Muhammad kissed it, he would certainly be convinced of its divinity and thus kissing it is idol worship and Muhammad did it! Since Muhammad was a bigger authority than Umar, kissing black stone is idol worship! ( I know this one would be too complex for madarsa minds!)

b. If Umar and Muslims kiss black stone just because Muhammad did so, and if it is not idol worship, it is no less than human worship since following someone’s order even without thinking its right or wrong shows the ultimate belief of the followers of a person in him. This is Shirk to believe someone other than God to be ultimate. So it is up to Zakir Naik what he wants to be, an idol worshipper or a human worshipper! In both cases, Islam would send him to Dozakh (Hell).

c. By the same logic, Hindus and Christians can say that they do idol worship because this is written in their books and their ancestors did so. If their ancestors would have not done this, they also would not be doing so! How will Zakir Bhai refute their claim?

Argument 5: At the time of the prophet, Sahabas (companions of Muhammad) used to stand on Kaba and then give the Azaan. Can any idol worshipper do that? This is the proof that we Muslims don’t worship Kaba.

a. Great logic! But all the Hindus on Ganesh Utsav throw their idols in the rivers! Can any Muslim do that with black stone? Since no Muslim can do that, it proves by Zakir’s logic that Hindus don’t worship idols but Muslims do!

b. Can any Muslim today, to debunk the claims of non Muslims of idolatry in Islam, touch the black stone with his feet?

c. If Kaba is just a Kibla (direction), can Zakir Naik hammer it down just like his Arab masters did with the idols of Hindus while they invaded India? (If anyone is hurt by this, please read those verses of Quran which order Muslims to break idols of others and kill the idolaters)

Argument 6. We Muslims don’t bow to Kaba, we only bow to Allah.

a. Zakir Naik says that Muslims actually bow to Allah, but for unity they bow in one direction. But as we know, Allah is on seventh heaven, should not then Muslims face upwards which is the actual direction of Allah instead of facing Kaba, which is a mere stone?

b. Every idol worshipper says that he bows to his God only, but for the sake of physical representation, he bows before idol. Why then Zakir Naik sees Shirk in the idols of others but “Tauheed” in bowing, kissing, circumambulation of a stone called Kaba?

Now we will quickly summarize the similarities and dissimilarities between idol worship and Kaba worship.

Similarities:

1. Muslims bow down to Kaba. Hindus bow before idols.

2. Muslims claim to remember Allah while they bow to Kaba. Hindus claim to remember Eeshvar while bowing before idol.

3. Muslims circumambulate and kiss the Kaba. Hindus do Aarti before idol and fold their hands.

Dissimilarities:

1. Muslims bow Kaba five times a day whereas most of the Hindus hardly bow to idols once a week.

2. Muslims don’t have liberty of choosing their direction of bowing whereas Hindus can face whichever direction they want by choosing appropriate direction of idol.

3. Hindus throw their idols after they perform their rituals especially on some occasions but no Muslims can ever think of doing so with the stone of Kaba.

4. Hindus fold their hands before idol just to give respect to God but Muslims kiss the black stone because Muhammad did so.

Conclusion:

The above analysis proves that if Hindus are idolaters for performing certain rituals, Muslims are no less than idolaters. In fact Muslims, in addition to idol worshippers, are human worshippers as well, which we have proven above.

Further, idol worship by Hindus has some rationale behind it, and is not obligatory to save one from Hell. Islam idol worship of Kaba is must to save one from Hell and get 72 virgins in Paradise.

We request our Muslim brothers and sisters to think about it with an unbiased mind and then draw conclusions themselves. We also request all Hindus, Christians and public in general to start worshipping the Ultimate in the most perfect manner – as described in Vedas – through noble thoughts, noble actions and noble meditation as prescribed by the path of Yog.

Remember: “God is existent, intelligent and blissful. He is formless, omniscient, just, merciful, unborn, endless, unchangeable, beginning-less, unequalled, the support of all, the master of all, omnipresent, immanent, un-aging, immortal, fearless, eternal and holy, and the maker of all. He alone is worthy of being worshiped”.

Let us worship God/Ishwar in the way He actually is, and achieve ultimate bliss for one and all. That is the sole purpose of our life and that is also the need of the hour. Let us start worshipping Ishwar in the truest form, unite together, and bring back the era of bliss, prosperity and salvation for everyone. Let us worship Ishwar in same manner as Ram and Krishna worshipped them. Let us arouse the Ram and Krishna within us and be the best devotees of Supreme Lord!

May the truth prevail! Let us work towards making truth prevail! Let us come back to the Vedas!

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  • In The Name of Allah ! The Most Merciful,The Most Gracious !
    Asalaamual¬aikum, peace be upon you, greetings to all my Muslims and non-Muslims fellows, (pls don’t say its copy paste from IRF), Asalaamual¬aikum is wht we Muslims must say when we meet anyone so its not only for one Muslim (Dr.Zakir Naik) it’s a way of Muslim Greetings.
    Please forgive me for my undrafted comment coz I am not a English professor, I will make it simple and try my best to say few words on this Topic, Insha-Allaah atleast you will understand my English.. 

    I am not Islamic scholar but I am practicing Muslim, obviously I know Basics of Islam, well let me spark light on your topic.

    Non-Muslims (Christians and Hindus) regularly to justify their idolatrous practices claim this allegation against Muslims.
    Chirstians such as prayers to Mary –Jesus (PBUH) by claiming that Muslims “worship” the Black Stone at the Kaaba in Makkah.
    Hindu : oh here we have many Gods and Goddess, but I will make my choice on Shiva coz many Hindu have funny story on Kaaba ( It was Shiva Temple). lol Muslims “worship” the Black Stone at the Kaaba in Makkah.

    Like you quoted Hadith on Bukhari [2-56-675]-Umar, there are few more Hadith let me input one more.
    MUSLIM: Book 007, Number 2914: Abdullah b. Sarjis reported: I saw the bald one, i. e. ‘Umar b. Khattib (Allah be pleased with him). kissing the Stone and saying: BY ALLAH. I AM KISSING WITH FULL CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND THAT YOU CAN NEITHER DO ANY HARM NOR GOOD; and if I had not seen Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) kissing you. I would not have kissed you. The rest of the hadith is the same.

    You asked why did Prophet Muhammad (s.a.a.w.) touched and kiss the stone why ? in your sense it’s a idol worship. Below is the 1st reason from Hadith

    It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”
    (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

    We see many types of kisses, such as kisses of love, affection, peace, respect and friendship, In Arab world they hug/ kiss on check for Greetings.

    Well if a Person kisses his/her child with love it’s worship? It’s a charm of baby which makes you kiss with Love. Or example you kiss your younger on 4head or you kiss your wife, I can go on and on for Kissing, tht does not mean we worship, anyways point is you can’t say We Muslims touch and Kiss it means we are idol worshiper, where did it came from ? Do you have any Hadith or an expatiation that Kiss is only Sign of Worship.? One more, Do you see any Hindu kissing his/her idol God/Goddess, I did never seen yet a Hindu kissing idol in Temple? Then how come you bring out Kissing is worshiping ? Do Hindu go in temple and say Oh Lord Shiva “YOU ARE A STONE AND THAT YOU CAN NEITHER DO ANY HARM NOR GOOD” I say this coz I see you made of stone , etc if you say so thr will be no reason for you to go in Temple and worship SHIVA, rite…….. exactly.

    if we really worship idols why Prophet Muhammad (s.a.a.w.) , throw out and broke them(idols) which was put in Kaaba from people like you I mean Kafirs of Makka . After Islam there was not a single idol left in Makka. How come.

    If you had really studied Quran carefully you had never claim your topic. Well I can go on with many example over here , but I think its much for you and your company.

    On your page someone (Vik says) proudly said his words , lol very funny “Ok, suppose I tell u to go break down the kaaba to prove to me that ur not an idolator, will u???? Hindus can throw their idols in the water, but muslims cannot even scratch the kaaba, so doesnt that make muslims greater idolators????” wow wow wow, it means you admit that you make your own God with hands and then throw them? Is this the way to treat your God, your so called God can be thrown anytime anywhere and God can’t save him/her self, wow what a logic, makes me laugh much. FYI every now and then there are renovation going on in Makka even renovation on Kaaba, so we do construction to kaaba no harm in over faith coz kaaba is not been worshiped, why to break without any reason.. lol

    Why should we prove to you Non-Muslims (Christians and Hindus), even we say, we debate that we Only worship one God “ALLAH” but you keep asking stupid Q again and again. you don’t believe us.

    We have to prove over faith to non-other than Allah only Allah.

    We (Muslims) answer you just to clear misconception about Islam, or we don’t even care what you say about us or what you think about us, if you are happy calling us idol worshiper, fine be happy, if you want to be Kafirs (unbelievers) be it, be happy, we don’t gain anything and we don’t want anything, we even don’t want you to convert/ embrace Islam, its your choice to be what you are. But why u all are Islamofobia, why u hate Muslims so much?

    Allah said in Quran clearly .. Al-Quran : 2.18. They are utterly deaf, dumb, and blind; they can no longer recover. this we(Muslims) see and we know,

    TALKING TO THE MIRROR
    You must have Notice my title “TALKING TO THE MIRROR” its for you , will you only debate Dr. Zakir Naik on your blog on ur pages ? or will you dare to debate him publicly ? I will love to see you with him on same stage. Be brave and challenge him publicly lets us wait and watch.

    “Sorry to all if i have hurt anyone’s feelings, i m here just to make my point everyone have right for speech “

    • @Faaiz Miyan, if Kaba and Hajre Aswad (black stone) are not symbols or idols then why are muslims circumbulating it because KORAN CLEARLY SAYS THAT ONLY ALLAHS SYMBOLS (IDOLS) SHOULD BE CIRCUMBULATED LIKE SAFAH AND MARWAH. SO MUSLIMS ARE COMMITING SHIRK BY CIRCUMBULATING KABA AND HAJRE ASWAD (BLACK STONE) AND FOR THAT 99% MUSLIMS WILL GO TO HELL. Koran clearly says that kaba is the house of allah so renovation of house is a common thing.

      Why did Mohammad kiss the Black Stone Hajr Aswad (Relic of Al Uzza), which pagan arabs believed that kissing it without wearing underwears would give the Sexual Power of many People and Prophet Mohammad used to kiss it and the myth of Mohammad having sexual power of several man came into being so Prophet Mohammad himself believed in this pagan superstition and why did Muslim keep Sabbath in Friday, which the Arab pagan kept as Sabbath for Al Uzza.

      QIBLAH IS A ZOROASTRIAN/PERSIAN TERM SO THE EXCUSES MUSLIM MAKE IS ALSO NOT ORIGINAL AND COPY PASTE FROM OTHER RELIGIONS.

      • Faaiz Miyan ( copy of Mr. Modi) aha, I guess you must be infected with communal virus 2, what should one do when, he/she is out of mind, all the Muslims who have commented on this page gave examples/ explained to you morons, but you did not get it isn’t it ? lol well well my bro, you and your sick mind like your religious belief, you always go and think about SEX. Its ur dirty mind.

        Now you are changing your view, lol 1st you say we worship kaaba, now you say Koran clearly says that kaba is the house of allah so renovation of house is a common thing. So whats your stand for we worship kaaba or Allaah? now you admit that it’s a selected place from Allah to worship him Alone , it means all the Muslims together go to Place of Allah and worship him Alone, Thanks you now admit it.

        Insha-Allah we will soon meet on the judgment day.. only place where you will understand what is Islam but hope it will be to late..

        1st I thought I m dealing with some Good knowledgeable people who are been misguided but I m sorry to say I was wrong, speaking to you all people is like, giving a Kids Garden child a book of collage or one can say, I gave a lecture to you when u are not even qualified to speak A to Z .

        Ok child have peace .. Hope Allah guide you on right path… before ending may I lol on your Faaiz Miyan lol … Bye bye KidO

      • Namaste Faaiz (hope you read it before running away)

        ———1st you say we worship kaaba, now you say Koran clearly says that kaba is the house of allah so renovation of house is a common thing. So whats your stand for we worship kaaba or Allaah? now you admit that it’s a selected place from Allah to worship him Alone , it means all the Muslims together go to Place of Allah and worship him Alone——–

        No. If Kaba is the house of Allah and Muslims worship Kaba then it means that

        1. Allah is a confined entity

        2. Islam believes in geocentric model of universe because Allah lives inside Kaba and thus it has to be center of the universe! If you say Allah is outside Kaba too then it is foolish to call Kaba as house of Allah.

        3. Muslims worship the house of Allah instead of Allah 🙁

        ———Insha-Allah we will soon meet on the judgment day..———

        No I will not meet you. I will be quite busy that day as I will be sitting between Allah and Muhammad judging their fates! Who says Allah and Muhammad are not to be judged for their deeds? You will not believe it now but you will see it that day!

        ———-speaking to you all people is like, giving a Kids Garden child a book of collage or one can say, I gave a lecture to you when u are not even qualified to speak A to Z .———-

        And listening to you confirmed that you have never seen collAge 🙂 because you GAVE us lecture (in the Past) when we ARE not qualified (in PRESENT) 😉

        ———Hope Allah guide you on right path——–

        What is the need of guidance ON right path? Isn’t it needed ON wrong path?

        ———before ending may I lol on your Faaiz Miyan lol———-

        One lol for collAge lecture too that was delivered in past to the kids of future 😉

        PS: I never laugh at typos or grammatical mistakes of anyone but it was just to make you feel how it looks when you ridicule others with irrelevant points. Hope you will learn something from this.

      • @Faaiz Miyan, LOL, MODI is TRUE MOMIN he did JUSTICE in Godhra through SHARIAT LAW (AN EYE FOR AN EYE) he did justice the SAUDI STYLE still you have problem with modi. NOW WHY ARE MUSLIMS HATING MODI FOR FOLLOWING SHARIAT.

        @Faaiz Miyan the whole world knows which religion is communal. MUSLIMS cannot TOLERATE ONE HINDU IN PAKISTAN, BANGLADESH, AND KASHMIR BUT WANTS HINDU TO TOLERATE 20 CRORES MUSLIM IN INDIA.

        @Faaiz Miyan if you have problems with Hindus GO TO YOUR PAKISTAN AND LIVE THERE YOU PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GIVEN SEPARATE COUNTRY.

        Regarding JUDGEMENT DAY, NAMAZ, RAMZAN your own people have exposed that it is copy pasted from ZOROASTRIANS so do not worry about hindus in Judgement Day.

        Muslims do not know the truth that NAMAZ IS PAGAN RITUAL OF ZOROASTRIANS this was exposed by Dr. Shabir’s research The Qiblah concept is stolen from Zoroastrianism Keblaah and Ramzan ritual is also copied from Zoroastrianism.

        It would be appropriate if we can discuss the startling similarities between some practices of Islam and Zoroastrianism. These parallels go beyond the co-incindental normal ones. I will endeavour to enumerate a few here:

        01. Requirements of prayers: Islam enjoins its followers to pray 5 times a day and is called by the Muezzin to his prayers.These prayers are at i) Dawn ii) Noon iii) Afternoon iv) Sunset v) Night.
        Zoroastrianism also enjoins prayers 5 times a day called “Geh”. The devotee is summoned by the ringing of a bell in the AtashBehram / Agiary. These prayers are also at the same time as in Islam and their respective names are:

        Time: Islamic/ Zorastrianism
        Dawn: Fajar/ Havaan
        Noon: Zohar/ Rapithwan
        Afternoon: Asr/ Uziren
        Evening: Mazreem or Maghrib/ Aiwisuthrem
        Night time: Isha or Ishan/ Ushaen.

        02. Pre-requisites of Prayer: On entering the mosque and prior to commencing prayers a Muslim has to cover his head and wash his face and limbs. Similarly, a Zoroastrian on entering the Agiary will cover his head, wash his face and limbs and perform the Padyaab Kusti before commencing his prayers.

        03. The Prayers: Prayers in Islam are in Arabic only, though
        translations/transliterations are available. The liturgy has to be conducted in Arabic only. In Zoroastrianism too, prayers have to be recited in Avesta or in Pazend only. In fact in Aveatan prayers Pazend portions have to be recited in an undertone so as not to break the seamless flow of Avestan Manthravani.

        04. Sanctum Sanctorum and its veneration: The holiest spot in a Mosque is the wall facing Mecca and is called the Qiblah. In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah is enthroned is also called the Keblaah. A Muslim will perform the Sajdah in front of the Qiblah and so also will the Zoroastrian perform the Sezdah before his Keblaah. Both involve kneeling down and touching the forehead to the ground.

        05. A Holy Month: In Islam Ramzan is the holy month in which all Muslims are required to fast in the day and only break their fast after sunset. In Zoroastrianism the month of Bahman has similiar connotations wherein all are requested to particularly abstain from flesh. Perhaps in the age of the Sassanian dynasty the month of Bahman was observed as Ramzan is now.

        06. Ascent into Heaven: The hagiography of Islam assures us that Prophet Mohammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem on the mythical beast Burrrak. He crossed the 7 spheres, exchanged greetings with the patriarchs and beheld the glory of God.

        The Dinkard tells us that at the entreaties of Asho Zarthustra Bahman Ameshaspand transcendentally elevated his consciousness to the realm of heaven wherein Asho Zarthustra looked at the reflugent majesty of God. A similiar journey was attributed to the virtuous Ardaviraf who visited hell, purgatory and heaven during his spiritual journey.
        The above similarities are obvious. A more careful research would reveal more parallels. However even these points are too close to be dismissed as mere coincidences. This means Zoroastrianism has had an enormous impact on Islam which is not acknowledged. Everyone agrees Islam owes a lot to Judaism and Christianity but I feel that the scholars of Islam borrowed very heavily from Iran and this can be perhaps attributed to that shadowy figure of Dastur Dinyar (Salman Farsi). This debt is so impressive that it had to be consistently downgraded and later denied. After all if Islam is supposedly directly inspired by God it cannot be seen to be acknowledging any debt to an older faith, specially the faith of a nation which Islam has defeated. This may perhaps explain the devotion of your Persian Imams to my Faith.

        07. Chinvat Bridge (The SIRAAT BRIDGE): According to ancient Persian myth, when a person dies, the soul remains by the body for three days. On the fourth, it travels to Chinvat Bridge (the Bridge of the Separator, also call (Al-Sirat), accompanied by gods of protection. The bridge is “finer than a hair and sharper than a sword” and spans a deep chasm teeming with monsters. On the other side of the bridge is the gateway to paradise.

        08. Hell: Demons guard the foot of the bridge and argue with the gods over the soul’s fate. The actions of the dead person, both good and bad, are weighed, and the soul is either allowed to cross or denied access to the bridge. Spirits whose evil outweighs their good fall into the demon-infested pit to face eternal torment. In this abyss of the damned, each soul is tortured by a GHOUL that represents its sins in life. Once fallen into the gulf, no soul can escape the horrors of hell through its own power.

        Zoroaster, a sixth century BC religious leader, had warned his followers of this obstacle to heaven but he promised to lead his flock safely across. The ancient manuscript Gathas (Songs of Zoroaster) explains that the Bridge of the Separator “becomes narrow for the wicked,” whereas the holy can easily pass unharmed. (In Gathas, the fair god Rashnu is named as the judge who helps determine who is worthy of salvation and who must be damned.) All infidels (non-believers) fall into hell, which the prophet says has been created especially for the “followers of the lie.”

        The legends are sketchy but assert that Chinvat Bridge is located somewhere in the far north. It is a place of filth where the damned endure physical tortures and spiritual agony. Souls who are unsuccessful in crossing the Chinvat Bridge suffer these torments until AHRAMAN, the evil god of ZOROASTRIANISM, is destroyed by the good god Orzmahd during the LAST JUDGMENT. As this time, lost spirits are restored to the truth since “the lie” has been eradicated, or they face final ANNIHILATION.

        CIRCUMSCION RITUAL is copied from Eygptian and Babylonians, Friday Sabath of Muslims is the Sabath of Pagan Arabs who kept it for AL-UZZA, revolving round SAFA, MARWAH AND KABA is also a pagan ritual. So Islam is copy paste of Pagan rituals of Zoroastrianism, Egyptians and Babylonian. SO WHERE IS TAUHEED IN ISLAM IT IS BUNCH OF PAGAN RITUALS.

    • @Faaiz:
      See the explanation of other religions for idol worship

      Hindu – We are not worshiping idol ,we are calling god to take the seat of idol(avahan) offer water(argya)….. and we pray to god by repeating his name…..hence it is not idol worship

      Budhist – No conept of god, and budha statues is just to show reverence to him

      Christian – we are praying infront of mary and jesus, we are not worshipping the statue

      Muslim – we kiss it to show reverence as the stone came from paradise(so what?? pig created by god shall we kiss it?)

      My question is why do you accept one reason and reject many other reasons for idolatory(even this is not clearly defined)?

      >>it means you admit that you make your own God with hands and then throw them?
      Know the difference between god and idol

      >>if you want to be Kafirs (unbelievers) be it, be happy,
      Unbeliever of god or unblievers of muhmmad?

      >> But why u all are Islamofobia, why u hate Muslims so much?

      Because your flock has destroyed my idols – bamian budha statues in afghanistan in recent history and various palces of worship in kashmir(do i need to introduce you sikandar butshikan?) in past.

      >> will you only debate Dr. Zakir Naik on your blog on ur pages ? or will you dare to debate him publicly ?

      Sorry we dont want to get our hands chopped by some follower of peacful religion or we dont want to be killed salman taseer. But let him reply to faithfreedom first.

      • @adolf, oh my dear I see much anger and hatred in you in your words in your mind, it bad for your health , what happens to you when you meet any Muslim in your real life ? In person do you feel to Kill Him ? well this what you learn from your so called religion faith? Is this Buddha’s teaching? guess not rite, so why u act like Animal we are Human race, civilest. in hatred your humanity is destroying your soul takecare bro.

        Really I feel sorry for all you out there who comment here ( Hateful comments against Islam and misguide other and them self too )with their own sick mind thinking, I just gave my Answer on idol worship, you can read on this page, more further I can’t coz me and many Muslims tried their Best but what one Do, you ppl are really not qualified to understand the soul of Muslim the faith of Muslim and The Best religion of World Islam, if you did, you must felt real lucky, like we feel lucky , We are not Muslim coz we born in Muslim Family We are Muslim by Choice. Just use ur simple clean Mind although much Islamofobia , why day by day people are embracing Islam, with much false propaganda people must live Islam, why opposite is going on ? People are joining us(Muslims).

        But still if you want you can refer this link.
        http://www.answering-christianity.com/black_stone.htm

        I know I know, u don’t want to but checkout all bullshit but if u really are in search of truth, Hope ALLAAH helps you, we don’t need you in Islam if Allaah wills you can get to be Lucky. Its your choice wht u think wht u believe, WHO CARES ..

        Abuse Islam with whatever language you like, whatever statement you want to give, nothing will change We are proud to be Muslims, some short of dirty minded people like you and ur friends over here will say us we are idol worshiper so what we lol………. lol .. we don’t need your judgment .. coz Islam is not materialised religion. It all matters here is soul, Tawheed, which you will never understand, until u be one of us.well anyways

        “Because your flock has destroyed my idols – bamian budha statues in afghanistan in recent history and various palces of worship in kashmir(do i need to introduce you sikandar butshikan?) in past. “
        “Sorry we dont want to get our hands chopped by some follower of peacful religion or we dont want to be killed salman taseer. But let him reply to faithfreedom first.”

        You ppl are much scared of Muslim an’t you.. peace peace …… we are not like what you think, we are from peaceful religion Islam, we don’t Hurt innocent ppl, we hunt thus who attack us, every human have right to defense him/her self rite, thts does not make us terrorist self defense is not called terrorism. Rite.

        A simple civilest logic which you don’t want to understand. You blame entire Muslim population in the World more than 1.5 Billion that equals to almost 23% World Population. For the act of some individual groups. How pathetic, if we look around and think like you ppl, world will be no longer to live within.. use your mind I can give u many example about innocent Muslims are been killed. Hindu killing Muslim etc, but still I have Hindu friends we live with them.. pls grow up .

        You talk about Sikandar Butshikan, maybe few more like him, so what man, all are not same, 800 years of muslim rule in India, if like you said all Muslims were same maybe you was Muslim too or you don’t even exist now talking to me. What the hell salman taseer (Pakistani) have to do with over talk.. lol lol lol. Well to end now think big act like good Human.. Don’t abuse Muslims … nothing further to say… Have a Good life.. May Allah Show you right Path.
        Sorry if there is any spelling mistakes, coz I don’t draft my word like the bloggers
        ALLAAH O AKBAR

      • better read your history and how many civilizations have been wiped out(ask parsis, and greeks) if you want to know about muslims, you are the byproduct of 800 years rule in india, thanks for the vijayanagara kingdom and marathas otherwise my forefathers would have got the same fate as mansoor al hallaj

        islam is like state sponsored terrorism, when pressed hard for justice it will claim individual acts but actively supports death of dhimmis who are not under our control

      • @Faaiz:

        Well to end now think big act like good Human.. Don’t abuse Muslims

        Good advice. But unfortunately this should first be applied to Quran. If Quran doesnt abuse Kufrs and doesnt promise Allah will make us regrow skin and burn us again all because we believe only in La Ilaha Il Brahman, the world would be a better place, no?

    • @Faaiz

      ok, so you say that kaaba kiss is not idolatry, then what else is it??? We do not need any Quran or hadith to look up the definition of kiss, because kiss we all know is done out of strong affection.

      coming to the kaaba, tell me one thing, since your arab masters were experts in breaking idols of innocent pagans, then what stops them from breaking the kaaba into pieces????

      Rennovation of the kaaba does not mean anything, I am saying why not eliminate the kaaba for good and stop associating it with your prayers, and hence forth, pray to allah without facing in the direction of kaaba………tell me can you all do that??????

      when you bow towards an idol like the kaaba, you are equal to every idol worshipper.

      “this stone neither harms me, nor benefits me” why dont you kiss every stone in the world????

      “why should we break the kaaba to prove non muslims that were are non idolators”

      The answer is obvious because you people are hypocrites, you people are egoistic, you know very well we proved all of you to be idolators and now you have no logical reasoning to back out.

      Just remember one thing in terms of logic, if you call urselves a non idolator by associating kaaba, then by ur logic no body is an idolator.

      Hindus throwing their God in water

      see, this proves hindus are not idolators, because they only use their idol to interact with the real Ishwar, just like a person would use a phone to talk to a live person. Now if hindus were idolators, then why would they throw their idols in water??????????????

      Because they know that the idol is just a way of communicating to God, not God itself.

      But sorry, people like you who believe in flying donkeys would never understand these things.

    • Faaiz

      Please ensure that you dont give more than two hyperlinks in a post and dont use slang. And of course finally ensure that you click “post comment” button 🙂

  • On the islamhinduism website, I cam across a post about how everything in the world moves in the direction of haj. The author of that post had used physics, astronomy, geology, biology etc to show how the entire universe is moving in the direction of tawaf. But upon examining the 12 point scientific evidence, here is what I came up with.
    ———————————————–

    @ Muhammed Suhail: It does not matter to me whether Muslims worship the kaaba or not. But when you make claims contrary to certain scientific facts you are not only compromising your own post but are also misleading other readers.

    1) Electrons revolve in an anti-clockwise direction (around the nucleus): This statement is faulty. The model of an electron revolving around a nucleus (Bohr’s model) is history.It has been established in quantum mechanics that electrons do not orbit the nucleus in the sense of a planet orbiting the sun but they possess wave-particle duality. Electtrons have been shown to exist as standing waves. Frankly today, physicists are not sticking their necks out to really tell that the electrons are orbiting the nucleus any longer. So your idea here is wrong.

    2) On the about to be fertilized ovum moving in anti-clockwise direction, please refer to any report on pathology about the ovum. Please refer to Studies of living human ova by New York Pathological Society. You will see that at the moment a sperm cell intersects the ovum the paper states that the ovum spun in clockwise direction. Again you are wrong here.

    3)Earth rotating around its own axis being clock wise or anti-clockwise depends on where you are viewing it from. From outer space, if we take South Pole as a reference, the earth spins in a clock wise direction but when North Pole is taken as a reference, it spins in an anti-clockwise direction. Ofcourse, earth does revolve around the Sun in anti-clockwise direction.

    4)Which tectnoic plate is moving towards the Arabian plate in anti clockwise direction? If anything, the Indian, the Arabian & the African plates are moving north and are constantly colliding with the Eurasian plate. So you are wrong here.

    5) Cytoplasm moving in anti-clockwise in human body,as stated by you is a factually incorrect statement.I can show you evidences of human zygotes where cytoplasm moves in a clockwise directions too. So you are wrong here.

    6) Protein molecules are arranged from right to left. Now this is another incorrect statement.Proteins are nothing but bubdles of aminoacids. Aminoacids can exist in two forms left as well as right. So how can you make a statement that protein molecules exist left to right,whe, the sequencing of these molecules is completely dependent n the way amoniacids are arranged inside the molecule?

    7) Blood circulation happens from left to right? Sorry Sir.

    Oxygen deprived blood from the vena cava enters the right atrium of the heart and flows through the tricuspid valve into the right ventricle, from which it is pumped through the pulmonary semilunar valve into the pulmonary arteries which go to the lungs. Pulmonary veins return the now oxygen-rich blood to the heart, where it enters the left atrium before flowing through the mitral valve into the left ventricle. Then, oxygen-rich blood from the left ventricle is pumped out via the aorta, and on to the rest of the body. And please note, when you look at the heart, aorta is neither in the left nor in the right of the heart. It is at the top and kind of splits the right & left sides of the heart.

    8)The sperm when reaching the ovum turns itself anti-clockwise? Sperm motion inside the cervix of a woman has been analyzed a lot and the sperm cell can turn either clockwise or anti clockwise. Please look up for a detailed analysis on this hat has been published by University of California, Davis, CA. They have clearly plotted trajectories and used the dimesions of yaw & pitch (like in a gyro) and they have established that there is no unique set of movement charactersitics. So you are wrong here.

    9) Point 9 has already been addressed using the cardio vascular system.

    10) Sun rotating around its axis in anti-clockwise direction?Just like the Earth’s rotation this direction is relative to the viewpoint from North and South poles. So, this is not an indisputable fact either.

    11)The Sun along with the solar system revolves in anti-clockwise direction? Please refer the next item.

    12) Galaxy also moves around itself in anti-clockwise direction? Wrong. Do you know that it has been clearly established that galaxies are isotropic (same in every direction)on large scales,from a distance & time standpoint? Thus the galaxies (including our milky way)have the same clockwise and anti-clockwise spirals. Please look up for Sloan Digital Sky Survey.

    So when a galaxy itself is isotropic, solar system is just one part of that galaxy. And curiously enough the arm of the spiral that contains the solar system called Orion Cygnus is a MINOR arm of the spiral. So Sun / Solar Sytem moving in clockwise or anti clockwise, within the galaxy’s center is redundant,given the galaxy itself is isotropic.

    So Sohail, without considering all these how did you link your incorrect ideas with tawaf??? How did you arrive at the 12 odd points, when everyone of your points are contrary to facts??

    • Apolloreach Bro, i hope such pointed rebuttals guides these souls in the right direction.simply fantastic!

      I am surprised that they choose to defend this ritual (as this was a well established pre-islamic ritual followed by the pagans) .Even if they discover something marvelous about tawaf, the credit would go to the pagans and the 360 idols who guided them to this ritual

      • @ Indian Agnostic: I guess many of them will not get it. When I explored the internet on tawaf ,after I posted the above message, I saw atleast a dozen sites vomitting the same 12 points and some dating back all the way to 2002. So, our friend @ IH website has simply reproduced it from another old site.

      • Guyz, I am surprised they are talking about Biology and Physics. they think Kabba is the center of earth.

      • Brothers even the excuses muslim make are NOT ORIGINAL. The Qiblah concept is of ZOROASTRIANS. The Zoroastrians say that Fire is their Qiblah when they are accused of Worshiping fire. Same with muslims who says that Kaba is their Qiblah. EVEN THE EXCUSES MUSLIM MAKE ARE NOT ORIGINAL THEY ARE COPY PASTE OF OTHER RELIGIONS.

        SEE THIS LINK HOW MUSLIM PRAYER RITUALS AND TIMINGS ARE COPY PASTE OF ZOROASTRIANS PRAYER RITUALS.

        http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8029.0

      • Namaste Brother Sameer

        Unfortunately aping has been the part of Eemaan for Muslim friends which is called Sunnah 🙁

        You cant expect genuineness from proud copycats

      • Namaste brothers Vajra and Sameer,

        I am thinking of writing an article (will take some time) of kaaba being trully idolatry which I gurantee no one will be able to refute because it will contain such a challenge that all jihadis will be afraid to accept. I would just like to know your views on this.

        Also please visit the website, which highlights the core message of Vedas of women being the most powerful. It is a sight that is trying to enpower all the women of Canada and the world.

        http://www.becauseIamagirl.ca

      • Namaste Brother Vik

        That will be great. We can have it published here on Satyagni. Please work on it. But I would like to differ with you on your words- “I guarantee no one will be able to refute because it will contain such a challenge that all jihadis will be afraid to accept”

        Jihadis will definitely write rebuttal to it just like they wrote for every article on Satyagni and Satyagni. Even the fear of accepting challenge appears in someone who is aware of the capabilities of self and the opponent. But Jihadis never know how intellectually challenged they are when it comes to analyzing skills and applying logic! The only thing which can be said about their rebuttals is- fools rush in where angels fear to tread 🙂

      • Namaste brother Vajra,

        yes, we have already seen how childish their so called rebuttals are. This is why I would request the audiences to judge whose articles are logical or illogical. I will definitely start the article soon, and I am thankful that you are propagating the great works of Satyagni site through another site like this. Some of the Jihadis are so unaware that they REPOST the same questions which have just been answered on the SAME article that they are commenting on. This proves that they do not even read the article and start commenting on it.

      • Namaste Vik Brother, definitely waiting for your article on Kaba and do not care about muslims rebuttals they are always funny to read.

      • @Sameer

        Namaste Sameer

        Yes, brother, the kaba article will come soon, I just need to get everything together. I will also be writing other articles as well, all will come slowly one after the other.

  • Arab Muslims along with the support of Indian muslims (converted) destroyed idols in ancient india. Even prophet muhammad destroyed lot of idol worship centers in arabia. Then what is the wrong in Babri masjid controvercy? They should shut up onthis becoz their prophet had done lot of same do’s.

  • Islam is a misguiding force in the lives of lost lazy Arabs and want-be Arabs. The only thing muslims do is kill including one another. Enjoy your fighting in Libya for now!

    • @Sam:

      Absolutely!

      The beauty of Pakis and Indian Momins is that they were raped and plundered and forced to convert into this cult and now few centuries later, they are more Muslim than the Arabs themselves!!! I dont remember where I read this but I think there was a newsarticle some years ago that said that UAE is actually looking to reduce the number of Pakis they admit in because they are trouble makers. Surprise surprise!

      Look at Pakistan – clever bunch of people who should be part of the general success story of India. But, crap, thanks to the religion of “peace” each group of Momins is falling over themselves pronouncing the other Kufr. Puke-inducing stuff 🙁

  • if somone does not find his knowledge in line with quran or its teaching then according to u he or his mind is fithy , that means all those who does not completly agree with quran have filthy minds
    this only shows or represent the teachings of quran that those who do not follow it are those who did
    not take clean bath or they dont wear good clohes or they have filty minds. [very nice teachings]
    and what does your quran teachs except killing non muslims and expanding family and conquring others land.
    and secondly about black stone if u really dont worship it why u keep that their.
    and if their is nothing special about it why ur prophet had kissed it.

  • allha is not everywhere but his knowledge is everywhere. [i had read this in some of the argument above made by some muslim brother]
    so by going through that logic his knowledge should be within me too. but i dont find my knowledge in line with the islam or koran.
    one of my muslim brother has said above that they kiss[black stone] it because they hate to worship it
    then by going through this logic they should kiss every stone and other things they hate to worship.

    • to Sufal,
      —–but I don’t find my knowledge in line with Islam or Koran—–
      You are quite right if one’s mind is full of satanic(filthy) knowledge how pure and clean Allah’s knowledge can enter it? First get rid of filth then have a clean bath,then wear clean clothes then put perfume.This is the normal sequence of events.
      —-they kiss {black stone)it because they hate to worship it then going through this logic they should kiss every stone——
      Do you mean that whatever we don’t kiss we worship it.?

    • How can we believe it is not an idol unless it is destroyed in the same way as bamian budhas?

      What ever your reason may be muslims are giving it importance when Allah asked in quran to do away with man made things. The symbolism of pagans and turks (moon and the star) are more important to muslims than Allah.

      Many religions dont have any problems with symbolism. But islam specially asks to do away with symbols and followers of islam boast that their religion is the only way. If Islam want to continue with its boasting, it has got to do away with symbolism (man made art) before pointing to other religions

      • @adolf
        how right you are brother. If we non-muslims take over saudi arabia, and then bomb up the kaaba same like bamiyan buddhas, then maybe these muslims will believe kaaba is an idol.
        If I had same kind of money like ambani brothers, believe me I would gladly spend 1 million dollars of my own money, to pay some white (gora) mercenary to do that job.
        THEN the faith of the muslims will be shattered, and they might become civilized.

        Heil hitler

      • @gms & roger
        I want to do to muslims exactly what adolf hitler did to jews. Concentration camps, gas chambers et al.

      • Since when you started to believe in Muslims?This discussion is carrying on exactly because you don’t believe when Muslims say Kaaba is not a God,nor an Idol, no harm or benefit can come from it.
        If Kaaba is destroyed, as has happened in the past , and Muslims don’t change their Qibla you will still say “a good idol worshiper worships the place where the idol touch first”.Note I’m not here to win battles, but to find common ground,if you pray to only one god(without idols) I have no problem with you.Even if you pray to idols is b/w you and your Creator.I have no say in the matter.

      • Namaste gms

        —————–Note I’m not here to win battles, but to find common ground,if you pray to only one god(without idols) I have no problem with you.Even if you pray to idols is b/w you and your Creator.I have no say in the matter.——————-

        Common ground is that we should worship One God without using any idol/stone/prophet. Vedas dont command us to believe in any agent/prophet but Quran does. Vedas dont prescribe us to use any stone for any direction but Quran does. So if you are in search of common ground, you should leave the practices of believing in prophets and bowing to a fixed direction identified by a stone.

        You might not have problems with us believing in only One God without idols/agents but Zakir Bhai MBBS has! According to him if I dont believe in Muhammad in addition to Allah, I will be thrown in eternal hell. If I dont bow to the direction of Kaba idol, I will be in hell. So please go and teach him that it should not be his business to decide who is going to heaven and who to hell.

        BTW if Muslim friends have problems with idolaters for their personal beliefs, I have problems with Muslims because they use Kaba idol and Muhammad agent while worshipping Allah. From the inception of Islam, Muslim hate for idolaters is well known to the world. Quran at many places bash idolaters and asks Muslims to fight them with sword until Kufra ends and Deen wins. So you should have “say” in this matter that all those who killed and raped non believers just because they didn’t follow Islam, were disgrace to humanity. And the one who claimed that he was ordered to fight Kafirs by Allah until Kufra ends was just a hate monger and not a prophet.

        Thanks

    • @Mansoor the link which you have given is half baked knowledge it does not mention the muslims should kiss the idols without wearing underwears this cannot be practiced unless it has superstition involved in it. The pagan believed kissing it give the sexual powers of many persons like it was mentioned about Prophet Mohammad who had sexual powers of many man and Sahih Hadiths itself say that Prophet Mohammad kissed this idol so Prophet Mohammad himself believed in this pagan superstition.

      • To Deepak

        Kissing a Black stone is not concerned with any sexual power.If pagan believed in it then they are wrong.

      • Namaste mansoor

        Why kissing of Muslims is right and of Pagans wrong when both are based on blind belief?

      • To Vajra

        First of all i want to give my humble suggestion.

        I think we should not criticize each other by using harsh words.It is not a healthy way of discussion.I want that we should understand each other views.We should respect each other.I donot know much about Hinduism and i want to know about it.I want to see what Hinduism teaches us about God and etc.Because good and healthy discussion will benefit not only muslims but also hindus.It is a good way of making bridge between Islam and Hinduism.I hope you will understand my sincere approach towards it.Otherwise it will just a waste of time.Thanks all of you.

      • If i quote in urdu language then all of you can understand it?because i want to quote in urdu font to express more about Islam.

      • To Vajra

        brother Vajra,muslims donot kiss a stone with the intention of worship.because it is just a stone that cannot benefit us or harm us.for example;i kiss my children but it doesnot mean i kiss them with the intention of worship.i kiss them with the intention of love.we kiss it because our prophet kiss it.but the question is:why prophet kiss it?

        according to islamic traditions,black stone was sent by heaven or paradise.black stone is symbolically(not literally) called right hand of God.

        according to prominent islamic scholasr Javed Ahmed Ghamidi:

        The istilām(touching or kissing) of the ḥajar-i aswad symbolizes the revival of the pledge. In it, a person while symbolizing this stone to be the hand of the Almighty, places his own hand in His and in accordance with the ancient tradition about covenant and pledges by kissing it revives his pledge with the Almighty that after accepting Islam he has surrendered his life and wealth to Him in return for Paradise.

      • Brother mansoor
        So will you accept those Hindus as non idolaters who think idols just as symbols of God’s powers and have intentions always to worship one true God but perform rituals with idols? Or anyone who says that idols are just to concentrate during meditation? Kissing your kid has rationale behind it that he and you both are conscious and understand the feelings of each other but non living stone can not do so. Thus it is illogical to kiss a non living which is as irrational as bowing to an idol.

        I request you to please go through the article again and refute the points raised in it. Your points have already been taken into account in the article.

      • To Vajra

        Well as you said:

        ” So will you accept those Hindus as non idolaters who think idols just as symbols of God’s powers and have intentions always to worship one true God but perform rituals with idols? ”

        it is a good thing if hindus worship ONLY 1 God.it is what Quran says.worship your LORD alone and donot associate any partner with him.but i donot know what your scriptures say about idol so i cannot comment on it.

        As far as islam is concerned,we muslims donot say that Kaaba or black stone is symbol of God’s power.

        Then you said:

        ” Or anyone who says that idols are just to concentrate during meditation? ”

        Well muslims donot believe that Kaaba was built for such purpose.

        You further said:

        ” Kissing your kid has rationale behind it that he and you both are conscious and understand the feelings of each other but non living stone can not do so. Thus it is illogical to kiss a non living which is as irrational as bowing to an idol. ”

        i am talking about intention.where i said that stone has feelings? i already said that stone has no any power to harm us or benefit us.it is just a stone.it is not a image or statue.it is not a image or statue of God.it doesnot represent God’s power.

        Then you said:

        ” Quran and Muhammad who use harshest words for the people of other faiths. Quran says non believers to be worst of creatures. Is not harsh? ”

        in the next verse Quran also says ” But those that believe and work righteous deeds, they are the best of creatures ”

        so if you want to be the best of creature then you must accept Allah’s divinely revealed Books.You should not oppose the Prophets whom Allah sent.

        Thats why Quran says about Muhammad:

        “We have sent you with the Truth as a bearer of good news and a warning…” (Fatir 35:24)

        Now i will talk something about black stone.you know when muslim touches or kisses black stone what Dua he makes?he says :

        ” In the name of Allah – Allah is the greatest. There is none worthy of worship besides Allah and all praise belongs to Allah ”

        This supplication explicitly shows that muslims worship Allah and only Allah.Do you find any indication of Idolatry in the above supplication?why muslims donot say in these words(if they really worship stone):

        ” In the name of Black stone – Black stone is the greatest. There is none worthy of worship besides Black stone and all praise belongs to Black stone ”

        if muslims really worship stone then we must atleast say it about black stone but muslims know it is just a stone.it is not like symbol of God’s power.

        Even when muslims Circumumbulate the Kabah they say:

        ” Glory be to Allah. All praise be to Allah. Allah is the greatest.There is no power and might except from Allah, the most high, the great. ”

        Is there any remotest trace of Idolatry in such an act?is there any indication of signal that muslims worship Kaba.if this is a case then we must say:

        ” Glory be to Kaba. All praise be to Kaba. Kaba is the greatest.There is no power and might except from Kaba, the most high, the great. ”

        so it proves that we worship only 1 GOD.

        Let’s suppose we worship black stone and Kaba.then please tell me why Quran doesnot speak about that we must worship Kaba and black stone?

        because Quran always says about worship of 1 God without associating any partner with him.

        Let me quote a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad which clearly proves that muslims donot worship Kaba:

        ” Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim. “

      • As you said:

        ” Kissing your kid has rationale behind it that he and you both are conscious and understand the feelings of each other but non living stone can not do so. Thus it is illogical to kiss a non living which is as irrational as bowing to an idol. ”

        where your scripture says that we must make statues or images?can you quote a verse?

      • mansoor

        Absolutely not! My scriptures Vedas dont appreciate using any idol/stone/symbol while worshipping but your scriptures do 🙁

        That is why I say that Islam believes in idol worship but Vedas dont !

        Regarding rest of your comment, its all based on the assumption that Quran is ultimate. But while arguing some unbeliever, you have to PROVE Quran to be the best instead of giving him the verses from the same regarding its perfection.

        For this, I have many times asked you the question which is yet to be answered. I give it here again-

        You obey Muhammad because Allah told you so. And you believe that Allah sent Muhammad because Muhammad told you so! Thus ultimately you obey Muhammad because Muhammad told you so! This is nothing but blind belief 🙁

        I want to know why you belief blindly?

      • @Mansoor Allah has clearly said in Koran his Symbols aka Idols like Safa and Marwah should only be Circumumbulated so if Muslims are Circumumbulating Kaba and Hajre Aswad that means Hajre Aswad is a symbol or idol and about Kaba in Koran it is clearly said that it is HOUSE OF ALLAH so Muslims are either considering Hajre Aswad and Kaba as Symbols or Idols of Allah or they are commiting shirk or sin as Allah has said only his symbols should be Circumumbulated.

        @Mansoor ” Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim. “ this verse means Allah loves his followers more than his HOUSE. So it exposes the Muslim claim that Allah is formless.

        @Mansoor ” Glory be to Allah. All praise be to Allah. Allah is the greatest.There is no power and might except from Allah, the most high, the great. ” this action clearly means Muslims are doing idol worship because chanting are only done in front of idols as Hindus and Buddhist chant in front of their idols. So it exposes muslim claim that it is direction because Muslim will not Kiss Milestone and chant Allah ho Akbar.

        @Mansoor you did not answer to this question of mine “Kissing the Kid is not idol worship but kissing the Kid and going round it 7 times is a sort of idol worship, will you kiss your kid and go around him 7 times.”

      • TO vajra:
        It is not illogical kissing a non living being.Everybody does it: sports people kissing bets balls,women kissing diamonds, priest kissing rings of their superiors,other religious and lay authorities kissing ground when landing in another country.These are not acts of idol worship.If you want find rationale behind any and everything people(or GOD) do or say then explain to me :why pray?Why fast? Why hajj?Why any religion? Why world exists?( Actually a foul can ask more questions than a wise man can answer )..Don’t you blindly swallow all the medications your doctor prescribe to you ?
        If idols are just for concentration during meditation then why so many of them of different color faces and postures?
        Would you take a Christian idol,a Buddhist idol,a voodoo idol,an idol of yourself, an idol of a president and pray to it? ho!! I’m sorry concentrate before it?
        If the matter is just “concentration” then this is medical problem not a religious one.Further attention deficit afflicts only a small minority in a population.

      • @gms

        You said “It is not illogical kissing a non living being.Everybody does it: sports people kissing bets balls,women kissing diamonds, priest kissing rings of their superiors,other religious and lay authorities kissing ground when landing in another countryship.”

        yes brother, there is nothing wrong with kissing something, BUT KISSING AN OBJECT WHILE YOU ARE PRAYING is classified as idol worship.

        For example, if I kiss my new house, there is nothing wrong with that, BUT IF EVERY MORNING I STAND BEFORE MY NEW HOUSE AND CHANT OR RECITE MANTRAS (IN YOUR CASE AYATS!) AND KISS MY HOUSE AND BOW BEFORE IT, THEN NO DOUBT I BECOME AN IDOLATOR, I hope its clear now.

        So every time you offer namaz and chant your prayers in your and face towards the kaaba and then bow towards it, you do not need to be a rocket scientist to discover that you are an Idolator.

        We do not defend Idol worship in this site since it is not a Vedic practice, but we have the highest level of respect for these idolators but they are ignorant. The reason muslims are being criticized on this site for kaaba case is because of their hypocrisy. At least those hindus admit they are idolators whereas muslims keep avoiding this PROVEN methodology.

        If you are an honest muslim, please confess that till now you have been an idolator by facing the kaaba. The only way you discontinue to be an idolator is by not facing the kaaba and always be ready to face any different direction each time you pray. And remove the picture of the Kaaba completely from your thoughts and life. And if challenged to break the Kaaba for your proof, you should not hesitate just like the arabs never hesitated when they broke the Pagan idols, now tell me can you do this?

      • gms

        ————–It is not illogical kissing a non living being.Everybody does it: sports people kissing bets balls,women kissing diamonds, priest kissing rings of their superiors,—————–

        1. Yes, it is! And more illogical is the thought which says that those who dont kiss/bow/circumambulate a stone will be thrown in hell for eternity 🙂

        2. When Islam disallows priests, why give example of their acts in your support?

        ————–other religious and lay authorities kissing ground when landing in another country.These are not acts of idol worship.—————-

        Really? Does Islam allow kissing ground?

        ————-If you want find rationale behind any and everything people(or GOD) do or say then—————

        No! I am not searching for the rationale behind anything people say or do but something for not practicing which I will be kicked to eternal hellfire 🙁

        —————explain to me :why pray?Why fast? Why hajj?Why any religion? Why world exists?( Actually a foul can ask more questions than a wise man can answer )..—————

        1. Prayer makes one believe that someone is superior to him who has created him and thus helps one control his arrogance so that he heads to the path of bliss.

        2. Vedas dont say anything about fast or hajj 🙂 Rather these are rituals which you have to give explanations of !

        3. True religion can only be one. But many people in the past, for their personal glory, fooled people standing some day claiming that they are agents of God and thus believing in him alone would lead one to the bliss of God. These agents created religions which actually deviated people from the true religion.

        4. World exists because God has created it for souls to do Karma and thus get bliss.

        5. You go on asking questions, I will answer 🙂

        6. Now you have agreed that you can not explain everything logically as some things are based on faith. Fine, so why do Muslims like Zakir Naik condemn Hindus for their faith in idol worship? If you dont require any rationale behind kissing, bowing, and circumambulating a stone by Muslims, why do you need it for bowing of Hindus in front of stone?

        —————Don’t you blindly swallow all the medications your doctor prescribe to you ?————–

        I see direction relationship b/w taking medicines and removal of disease. Thus I base my belief in doctor on this strong logical relationship. But I have not seen anyone getting bliss by kissing/bowing/circumambulating any stone and thus can not simply believe in it. On contrary, today, most of the victims, poor, and suppressed people are Muslims. So if I were to draw conclusion based on some relation, I would say that kissing stones lead one to destruction 🙁

        —————If idols are just for concentration during meditation then why so many of them of different color faces and postures?————–

        To concentrate over different qualities of God 🙂 [please note that I dont believe in idol worship, I have never bowed to any idol in my life and will never bow in future too. But here just showing you that if Hindus are idol worshippers, Muslims are also the same. And if Muslims are not idolaters then Hindus too are not idolaters 🙂 ]

        —————-Would you take a Christian idol,a Buddhist idol,a voodoo idol,an idol of yourself, an idol of a president and pray to it? ho!! I’m sorry concentrate before it?—————–

        Yes 😉 I can use any of them for concentration ! So am I not idolater now?

        —————If the matter is just “concentration” then this is medical problem not a religious one.Further attention deficit afflicts only a small minority in a population.—————

        This concentration is something which is required to think about God, His qualities so that we can get ourselves in sync with His commands and laws. It is same as scientists need separate labs, space for thinking about science and technology so that they can come up with new ideas. This concentration is not a medical problem but an ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENT for developing great ideas. But I can understand your negative take on it because Quran emphasizes more on fighting Kafirs, make the world Dar ul Islam, distribution of war booty including women and children, houris of heaven, their transparent bodies, their solid and big bosoms….. Of course these things dont require any concentration/meditation to be achieved but taking a sleep full of dreams in your room will suffice 😉

        I invite you to the only religion of God, The Vedas.

        best regards

      • @Mansoor Kissing the Kid is not idol worship but kissing the Kid and going round it 7 times is a sort of idol worship, will you kiss your kid and go around him 7 times.

      • @Mansoor Bro, nice joke when I told that Hajre Aswad is right hand idol or symbol of Allah you said it is unauthentic, now you yourself have come with explanation that Hajre Aswad is right hand symbol or idol of Allah said by Islamic scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, nice hypocrisy. By the way symbol or idol are same things check in any dictionary.

      • Brother Sameer

        Nice catch! I wonder if a stone can symbolically be called as Allah’s right hand, why can not the stones of Hindus be understood as the symbols of God’s powers by our Muslim friends?

      • Namaste brothers Vajra and Sameer,

        It is is so obvious that kaaba is idolatry but yet they do not accept it due to their hypocrisy.

        Muslims in terms of kaaba-idolatry case, are like doctors who prohibit sweets for diabetic people but at the same time they justify that swallowing massive spoons of sugar is ok as long as its not sweet.

      • Namaste Brother mansoor

        ————-I think we should not criticize each other by using harsh words.—————-

        I agree with you that harsh words should not be used. But Brother mansoor, it is Quran and Muhammad who use harshest words for the people of other faiths. Quran says non believers to be worst of creatures. Is not harsh? Creatures mean all living beings- dog, pig, warm, snake etc. What if I call Muslims worst than these?

        —————It is not a healthy way of discussion.—————–

        Whatever it is, it was first started by Muhammad and Quran.

        —————–I want that we should understand each other views.——————

        Just asking what will you do if some day you get convinced that Vedas are more correct than Quran? Will you leave Islam?

        —————We should respect each other.—————-

        Perfectly written! So do you condemn Quran for not doing so?

        ——————-I donot know much about Hinduism and i want to know about it.I want to see what Hinduism teaches us about God and etc.—————–

        1. Brother, its good to hear from you that you want to know about Vedas. BTW may I ask you when you have not read Vedas, how do you know that Quran is best?

        2. Please go through http://Satyagni.com/series/vedic-lessons/ and get the basic approach of Vedas towards God and His worship.

        ————–Because good and healthy discussion will benefit not only muslims but also hindus.It is a good way of making bridge between Islam and Hinduism.—————

        Agreed Brother! But for that it is necessary for Muslims to stop thinking their fellow Hindu, Christian, and Jews Brothers as hell bound and worst of creatures. Because if you believe in your heart that you are talking to the man worse than dogs and pigs then you will not care to listen to him properly, forget about discussing issues with him.

        ————– I hope you will understand my sincere approach towards it.Otherwise it will just a waste of time.Thanks all of you.————–

        You are the one of the very few Muslims who have agreed to discuss and not to ANSWER our questions/points, which is a good sign. I am here to discuss with you Islam and Vedas and believe me I will choose the best path. If you convince me that Islam is the best, I will accept Islam. But at the same time if it is proven that Quran is not the best, you should leave Islam (at least from heart if not possible totally). What say?

        best regards

      • Muslims kiss because they hate to worship it, while pagans kiss,pray,talk to it ,go around it and they really believe that idols are gods.

      • @gms

        and do muslims not go around it? Are muslims just circulating around the Kaaba to run laps in order to lose weight? Muslims do worship it brother, otherwise why would they bow toward it?

        A muslim REFUSES to break down the kaaba and continues to bow towards it, this can only mean one thing brother, but I would like to hear it from you?

      • Namaste Brother Vajra,

        thanks for admiring my comment, but what else can I do, if gms refuse to admit EVEN THE OBVIOUS SEEN movements of muslims around the kaaba. Now, we have seen muslims circulate the Kaaba and but mr. gms said ONLY PAGANS circulated the kaaba, not this implies he is referring to the muslims today as pagans. LOL

      • Brother gms

        ————Muslims kiss because they hate to worship it————–

        Thats an interesting method to show your hatred towards someone you hate, just kiss it 🙂 Couldn’t understand what will you do then to the one you love 😉

        Just asking, why did then Muslim invaders call themselves as Butshikan (idol breakers) and not idol kissers? Why did not they just kiss the idols of Hindus instead of desecrating them?

      • Namaste Brother Sameer

        I think Brother gms has come to know the falsity of the rituals associated with Kaba idol. However he has some traces of Islam (which makes Muslim friends believe that one Momin is superior than 10 or 50 or even more Kafirs put together in battle) still left on his mind which are inciting him to reply to Kafirs, no matter how absurd it is, so that he is not said to be defeated by Kafirs.

        May Eeshvar help Brother gms know that we all here consider every human as our family member and we are not against his beliefs at all. We just oppose the ideology which has damaged this world in general and our country India (including Pakistan, Afganistan, Bangladesh who were all non Muslims 1400 years ago) in particular by forcing its beliefs on the natives through sword.

        In short we are not against any ritual of Muslims with Kaba but their belief that bowing and kissing of Kaba idol is Tauheed but bowing to any other idol is Shirk and thus punishable. If someone enjoys attacking the beliefs of others for no reason, he should be prepared for getting the replies of the same form.

        Lets pray Eeshvar that people like Brother gms come to the right path of Vedas leaving their illogical cults.

      • Bro Vajra and Vik you are very right, in Pakistan the pakistanis call their Mama’s and sister rapists as Pir like Pir Ghauri, Pir Ghaznvi and named their missiles after them (LOL) who attacked Pakistan more than India, which was at that time in India and raped their ancestors. So pakistanis are proud of being bastards of Arabs and Afghans

      • Namaste brother Sameer

        very well said, the funny thing is Arabs today do not even consider Pakistani Muslims equal to them and consider themselves superior. I feel sorry for these pakistani muslim brothers and sisters.

        Did you know Arab muslims are considered superior over Non Arab muslims? I cannot stop laughing thinking Pakistanis praising arabs but arabs consider Pakistani muslims contaminating. Pakistani muslims should wake up and return to their ancestry.

        Read the link below why arabs are superior to pakistanis

        http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2277573

      • @gms
        quote”Muslims kiss because they hate to worship it, while pagans kiss,pray,talk to it ,go around it and they really believe that idols are gods” unquote

        Tum kare to suhaag raat, ham kare to balatkar? What a bunch of hypocrites.

  • > Most of d comments in response to the article by our Muslim brothers are nt point by point as has been given by our Arya Samajis and I know it is indeed difficult for a biased person influenced by Mr Prophet and more so latest by Mr Naik.

    > And on the point of Kaba – Idol Worshiping they are giving all the excuses – direction n unity n following of Prophet and on the other hand accuse us to be idolaters. Substance of what all they do is worship an IDOL.

    > Above all in their arguments they accept dat Mr Prophet Muhhammad has to be given an equal importance to e1 while praying all 5 times – which clearly voilates their own theory of Tauheed.

    Yeh toh wohi baat ho gayi – HUM KARE SO CHAMATKAR aur TUM KARO SO BALATKAR

  • Hello,

    I hope everything is fine?. I’m so sorry for not telling you about my urgent trip to Ghana; Presently, I will be glad if I could confide in you and I want this issue to be confidential between You and I because I don’t want people to get worried about my situation. I’m in Accra (Ghana) to complete a project, but am having some difficulties. It has been a very sad moment for me over here and my present situation is very hard for me to explain.

    I lost my belongings including wallet, mobile phone and some valuables on my way to the hotel. I am sending you this e-mail from the city Library (and I only have 15mins in every 2hours to access my email from here), I had to block my account and my bank cards immediately the incident happened., I am facing a hard time here because i have no money on me to clear my Hotel bill and other expenses. Please I will like you to assist me with a loan of €2,600 Euro ($3,700 USD) or any amount you could afford to sort-out my hotel bills first and to get myself back home. I have reported the case to the embassy here and they are going through the necessary procedures but I will appreciate whatever you can afford to assist me with and I’ll refund you the money as soon as I return.

    I await your reply immediately so I can email you the needful details to send the money.
    [email protected]
    Thanks.

    Loven Greenspan

  • It seems Satyagnia have not read Quran-e-Sharif at first.He simply need to do that and understand it.If Mr Zakir Naik has said something has said that after he read every book which is there regarding religions and above all he is a scholar.There is only one god and that is Allah(the most mercifull).Whatever has been mentioned or written in the article is total nonsense.I strongly suggest you to read Quran-E-Sharif because u need the direction that leads to reality and i am very much confident that Quran-E-Sharif will give you the answers that you are looking for.
    Apart from this i believe Mr Zakir Naik’s personality ,his presentation and his knowledge(not only of Islam but about every other religions also) have shed a impact on you.
    May Allah bless you with the religion of Islam.

    • @ Sohail
      you can’t prove so you are referring Quran-E-Sharif.You don’t know anything.Only saying Islam is best doesn’t make any sense.The moment a person can’t argue start saying I am best,that is what you are doing.

    • @sohail

      abe chirkut,
      tu kya samajhta, hum log anpadh hai yaha? I have read the koran, in original arabic, it does not preach spiritualism. it does not even preach religion, it preaches that islam is the only true religion which will prevail over all other systems, and all infidels should be braought under islam by sword if necessary.
      All it teaces is hatred, violence and conquest, and yes it even sanctions, lying deceiving, taking infidel women as slaves (ghanimat ka maal) and destroying idols. That is exactly what happened to hindus in pakistan, and now in kashmir. Now please dont tell me kashmiris are not mulsims and they are not practising real islam?

    • @Wellsaid

      Namaste,

      it would be better if you debate on these things based on common sense and logic rather than showing silly videos. Even if kaaba is someting great, it should justify Judaism not Islam!!

      And the debate here is about idol worship and kaaba. As long has you people bow, kiss, and circumlate around the kaaba, it proves you to be idolators. Eiither you become sincere and accept the fact that you are an idolator when you involve kaaba into your prayers, or you continue to be a hypocrite and face humiliation from time to time.

      So that choice is yours, brother.

      • Brother Vic, Our deed are based on our intentions. We never keep Kaaba in front of us anytime we pray. The entire world is a place of worship for we Muslims (with some conditions that, the place should be clean, free of any idols/pictures/statues etc, we should be facing towards kaaba etc). When we pray we never imagine nor our intentions are that we are bowing or praying to Kaaba. We always imagine that we are standing in front of Allah subhana wa tala or that Allah subhana wa tala is looking at us. U can check up with any muslim if they all feel this way or not. Just by your saying it cannot be idolation and we follow all these rules bcoz it is set forth by our creator, not our personal choice and mind you any muslim will follow what our Creator and our Prophet orders us to do. Even if any muslim aalim says otherwise, we don’t agree to it and we reject is straight away. By your saying or your conclusion makes no difference to us nor will it change our way of praying. We circummulate the kaaba to testify that there is one God i.e. Allah bcoz every circle has one center point and kissing hajre aswat doesn’t make it an idol. We kiss our wives, children, you mean to say they become our idols to worship? and there are many reasoning give by several people to prove that Hajre Aswat is mere a stone, neither it can bring any good to us nor will it do any bad………, we can stand on top of kaaba and give azan….. you know all these. All our deeds are based on our intentions (this is the fist hadees in Sahi Bukhari, Innamal Aamala Bin niyya), when we don’t have such intentions while praying what is your problem and why are you forcing us that such are our intentions/practices?. You can never change the rule laid by our Lord.

      • @Wellsaid

        My debate is based on kaaba being idol worship, not how many idols or kaabas or the quantity of idols one needs to bow down. I agree quantity wise idolators have more idols and muslims only have one big idol. But In this debate, we are talking about QUALITY. Muslims do not put a model of kaaba before them because they all use only one idol that is located in Mecca called Kaaba. They bow towards this kaaba which makes this equivalent to idol worship. If buddhists want, they can make a huge statue of Bhudda and make all the buddhist people around the world bow towards it, so as you can see quantity really does not matter! Let me tell you a small secret my muslim friend, did you know muslims hang the picture of the Kaaba in their homes and pray towards it? Now what have you got to say about this?

        You imagine Allah in your minds while you pray? It is funny on one side you people claim Allah is FORMLESS now all the sudden He has an image that you can imagine?

        Standing on the kaaba and giving azaan and later bowing towards that same Kaaba does not justify you from being a non idolator? If hindus want they can stand on their idols too but they seem to respect their idols just like how a muslim will never stand on the Quran! Did you know hindus who worship Ganesha throw his idols int he water? Can muslims do this with the kaaba? By this logic of standing on idol vs tossing idol in water, I think Ganesha worshippers become more of non idolators compared to muslims.

        Remember, and idol can be anything picture, statue, monument, temple, mosque, stone, rock, or any physical object that we bow towards while we pray. Since you bow towards Kaaba while you pray, hence you are an idolator.

        All the reasons you gave me for bowing towards the kaaba, they may be amazing, but the problem is my friend, if I accept your reason, I have to accept all the reasons of buddhists, non Vedic hindus, christians, and other idol worshippers. Because they all say they only use the idol as a medium to worship the actual God, and muslims say they use the kaaba as direction to unite everyone to worship Allah. See the similarities? Ultimately you are an idolator as well, so stop criticizing others without looking at yourself!

      • Or if you want to prove us that we are idolators, just show one such example from any one mosque or place in this world where we muslims keep the model of Kaaba before us and bow down to it or check with any muslim you know that if it is a condition that we keep kaaba or imagine that we are bowing to kaaba when we pray?. you will get the answer to your accusation.

      • @Wellsaid again I will give you the verse in which muslims themselves have accepted they are worshipping the RIGHT HAND IDOL OF ALLAH which is kept in KABA (and also put right hand of allah in google and many sites where muslims are seeking blessings from this right hand of allah)

        “who ever negotiates this stone as if he is negotiating the Merciful hand.” Narrated by the Dailami from Abu Huraira

        The Noble Prophet Muhammad (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) has said, “Perform the Tawaf of the House (Kaaba) and rub your hand over the Corner which has Hajr Aswad – the Black Stone, because this is the right hand of Allah on His Earth which He shakes with His creations.”

        so brother now should not have doubt that Kaaba is idol worship because Prophet Mohammad himself is telling that and this is given in many Islamic websites.

      • @WellSaid Shahi Hadith itself says Kaaba is right hand idol of Allah see below verse

        Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: “Verily the Marwah (Hajre Aswad) is the right hand of Allah on earth. Through it, He shakes hands with His devoted servants just as you shake hands with your brother. Anyone who was unable to pledge the bay’at (of allegiance) to Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) and makes istilam (kisses it or touches it) of the Hajre Aswad has indeed pledged the bay’at to Allah and His Rasul.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

      • To Sameer

        With regard to the hadeeth about the Black Stone being Allaah’s Right Hand on earth, the answer to that is that it is a false hadeeth which is not proven from the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

        Ibn al-Jawzi said in al-‘Ilal al-Mutanaahiyah: This hadeeth is not saheeh(authentic).

        Al-‘Ilal by Ibn Al-Jawzi, 2/575. see also Talkhees al-‘Ilal by al-Dhahabi (p. 191).

        Ibn al-‘Arabi said: it is a false hadeeth to which no attention should be paid. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: It was narrated from the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with an isnaad (chain of transmitters of the hadith) that cannot be proven; based on that there is no need to discuss its meaning.

        Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 6/397.

      • @Mansoor I quoted this verse from Sahih Hadiths like Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, what you want to tell is they are false, nice Joke, see below it is quoted from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

        Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: “Verily the Marwah (Hajre Aswad) is the right hand of Allah on earth. Through it, He shakes hands with His devoted servants just as you shake hands with your brother. Anyone who was unable to pledge the bay’at (of allegiance) to Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) and makes istilam (kisses it or touches it) of the Hajre Aswad has indeed pledged the bay’at to Allah and His Rasul.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

        @Mansoor even if you do not believe Sahih Hadiths like Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari okay then I will directly quote from KORAN which says KABA OR HAJRE ASWAD IS SYMBOL OR IDOL

        Allah states: “Verily Safa’ and Marwah (Hajre Aswad) are the symbols of Allah. Thus it is not a sin on one who performs the hajj or umrah of the (sacred) house to make tawaf between them. And verily Allah is appreciative and fully cognisant of one who performs good deeds voluntarily.” (Surah Al-Baqarah verse 158)

        @Mansoor if Kaba or Mecca is only a direction why then in Koran and Sahih Hadiths there are many verses which says anything done in Mecca or Kaba has 1000 time benefits or allah forgives the punishment of his believer in this place.

      • To Sameer

        Sameer said:

        @Mansoor I quoted this verse from Sahih Hadiths like Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, what you want to tell is they are false, nice Joke, see below it is quoted from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

        Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: “Verily the Marwah (Hajre Aswad) is the right hand of Allah on earth. Through it, He shakes hands with His devoted servants just as you shake hands with your brother. Anyone who was unable to pledge the bay’at (of allegiance) to Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) and makes istilam (kisses it or touches it) of the Hajre Aswad has indeed pledged the bay’at to Allah and His Rasul.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

        My Response:

        The above Hadith is mentioned neither in Bukhari nor Muslim.Your reference is not correct.

        Sameer said:

        @Mansoor even if you do not believe Sahih Hadiths like Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari okay then I will directly quote from KORAN which says KABA OR HAJRE ASWAD IS SYMBOL OR IDOL

        Allah states: “Verily Safa’ and Marwah (Hajre Aswad) are the symbols of Allah. Thus it is not a sin on one who performs the hajj or umrah of the (sacred) house to make tawaf between them. And verily Allah is appreciative and fully cognisant of one who performs good deeds voluntarily.” (Surah Al-Baqarah verse 158)

        My Response:

        Any knowledgeable muslim knows that Hajre Aswad(black stone) is not mentioned in Quran.Hajre Aswad is mentioned only in Hadiths. Hajre Aswad is an Arabic term which means Black stone.Safa and Marwah are two small mountains located in the Masjid al-Haram between which Muslims travel back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah.

      • @Mansoor thank you for exposing Masjid al-Haram as “MASJID WITH IDOLS” here many muslims were challenging us to show MASJID WITH IDOLS. So now you only have shown that Masjid al-Haram is Masjid with idols. As allah himself has said the stone formations SAFA AND MARWAH are his symbols and it is not a sin to do tawaf between them. This Koranic verse was revealed when the new converts to Islam thought that it was Pagan practice to do tawaf around Safa and Marwah because the Pagan move around Safa and Marwah like Muslims are doing today around Safa and Marwah, and any knowledgeable would know that moving around symbols is idol worship.

        @Mansoor Brother if you use common sense use you will clearly get the point that Hajre Aswad, Safa and Marwah are idols, and Calling Kaba as House of Allah also exposes the Muslim claim of Allah’s Formlessness.

        @Mansoor Brother there are many Hadees which are given by both the narrators of Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari the above verse of Hadees is an example of this it is given in many Muslim websites I have this verse from Muslim website only see below:

        http://www.haqislam.org/virtues-of-makkah-pt2/

        Even if you do not believe in above Hadees the Koranic verse is more than enough to prove the point

      • To Sameer

        Sameer said:

        @Mansoor thank you for exposing Masjid al-Haram as “MASJID WITH IDOLS” here many muslims were challenging us to show MASJID WITH IDOLS. So now you only have shown that Masjid al-Haram is Masjid with idols. As allah himself has said the stone formations SAFA AND MARWAH are his symbols and it is not a sin to do tawaf between them. This Koranic verse was revealed when the new converts to Islam thought that it was Pagan practice to do tawaf around Safa and Marwah because the Pagan move around Safa and Marwah like Muslims are doing today around Safa and Marwah, and any knowledgeable would know that moving around symbols is idol worship.

        My Response:

        You are unaware of historical background of Sa’i(back and forth movement) between Safa and Marwah.You know why we Sa’i between between Safa and Marwah?It is an essential part of the Islamic Hajj and Umrah, symbolizing the search for water by Hajara(wife of Prophet Ibrahim) in order to give to her son Ismail.Let me present historical background of Sa’i betwwen Safa and Marwah.

        Historical Background

        Ibn ‘Abbas said: ‘Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him) brought Hajar, his wife, and her son Isma’il (peace be upon them), whom she was still nursing, and left them at (the site of) the House of Allah under a tree above the Zamzam(It is a well located within the Masjid al-Haram). Makkah at that time was a place where there was neither water nor any dweller. He left a bag of dates and a container of water for them. Then Ibrahim (peace be upon him) turned to go away. Isma’il’s mother said to him, “O Ibrahim! Where are you going? And who are you leaving us to in this valley without a companion or a thing?” She repeated this several times but he did not respond. At last she asked him, “Has Allah commanded you to do so?” He answered, “Yes.” Thereupon she said, “Then He will not let us perish!”(Bukhari).

        In another narration we read: “She asked him, ‘Who are you leaving us to?’ He answered, ‘To Allah’ whereupon she responded, ‘I am satisfied,’ and turned back.” Ibrahim left and when he reached a mountain pass where he could no longer see them, he turned his face toward the Ka’bah and with his hands raised, supplicated, “O Our Lord! I have made of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation by your Sacred House; in order Our Lord, that they may establish regular prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits, so that they may give thanks!”(Qur’an 14.37)

        Hajar sat under the tree with her baby next to her. She drank from her water container hanging nearby, and nursed her baby, until all the water she had
        was gone, her milk dried out. Her son grew hungrier and hungrier. She
        could hardly bear to look at him. She went and stood at Safa – the hill
        nearest to her. She looked down the valley to see if there was someone around to help. She could see no one. So, she climbed down Safa and reached the valley. She struggled hard, crossed the valley and reached Marwah. She stood on Marwah, and looked around.Still she could see no one around. She repeated this seven times. Ibn ‘Abbas added, “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: ‘It is (to remember this walk) that pilgrims walk between Safa and Marwah.”‘

        Performing the Sa’i serves to remember Hagar’s search for water and God’s mercy in answering prayers.In his context Safa and Marwah are called the Symbols of Allah.

        Sameer then said:

        @Mansoor Brother there are many Hadees which are given by both the narrators of Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari the above verse of Hadees is an example of this it is given in many Muslim websites I have this verse from Muslim website…

        Even if you do not believe in above Hadees the Koranic verse is more than enough to prove the point.

        My Response:

        I agree with you that there are many Hadiths about Black Stone.But Hadith which says that Black Stone is the right hand of Allah is neither mentioned in Bukhari nor Muslim.

      • To Sameer;
        Elsewhere I was advised to base my arguments only on logic not from Quran and Hadith.
        Looks like you have gotten in the habit of manufacturing and misinterpreting the scriptures.Why don’t you stick to logic and explain if to bow to or towards Kaaba is idol warship then not only Kaaba is an idol but everything between me and Kaaba.
        Air, gases, next row feet , walls, trees, rivers, animals,Hindu Christian Buddhists voodoo idols etc etc. This is very fundamental and simple question.Please answer.

      • gms
        Yes! Why not? Everything b/w you and Kaba is idol! Still you are an idol worshipper and polytheist in addition 🙁

        You can not superimpose any logic on your beliefs and then show the absurdities! Refute the argument with counter argument. It is same thing if “X” says- “If I become idol worshipper by believing God in idols too then do I believe everything to be idol since I believe God to be omnipresent?”

        You can always say- yes, of course! Why not? This virtual logic of “X” does not help him to prove that he is not idol worshipper.

        hope you got the point

      • TO sameer ;Mecca ,Medina and Baitul Muqqadas are sacred PLACES not sacred idols.
        If in your bed and you pray and Allah compensate you more then 1000 times does your bed become an Idol? Prayers at Mecca worth 100 000 , Medina 50 000 and Baitul muqqadas 25 000 more than elsewhere. Does it make Mecca full Idol Medina 50% and Baitul Muqqdas 25% idol. If all three are full idols then what is the threshold to be reached to be qualified as an idol ? And which type of idols are this where people live and do all their necessities? Inside an idol everything is an idol.If breaking a structure is sufficient to proof that is not an idol, then there are plenty of buildings being destroyed in these cities.

      • gms

        —————-Mecca ,Medina and Baitul Muqqadas are sacred PLACES not sacred idols.——————

        Why some places are sacred? What is the logic behind it?

        —————–If in your bed and you pray and Allah compensate you more then 1000 times does your bed become an Idol? —————

        Bed does not become idol but Allah is proven to be insane for doing anything without reason 🙁

        —————Prayers at Mecca worth 100 000 , Medina 50 000 and Baitul muqqadas 25 000 more than elsewhere. Does it make Mecca full Idol Medina 50% and Baitul Muqqdas 25% idol.—————

        1. Why these three are so special?
        2. Of course these are full idols, 50% idols and 25% idols respectively 🙂

        —————- If all three are full idols then what is the threshold to be reached to be qualified as an idol ?————–

        25% for sure in your case 😉

        ————– And which type of idols are this where people live and do all their necessities?————-

        This is the true idol which is such that one can enter it, live in it, eat in it, …. and still worship it! This is true idol which is found in Islam.

        ————— Inside an idol everything is an idol.If breaking a structure is sufficient to proof that is not an idol, then there are plenty of buildings being destroyed in these cities.——————

        1. No! Inside an idol, there are parts of idols!
        2. And dont forget about the new buildings being formed and thus new idols in making every moment 😉

      • @gms Allah himself has said that stones SAFA AND MARWAH in MASJID AL HARAM are his symbols (idols) going round is no sin see the below verse in KORAN:

        Allah states: “Verily Safa’ and Marwah (STONES) are the symbols of Allah. Thus it is not a sin on one who performs the hajj or umrah of the (sacred) house to make tawaf between them. And verily Allah is appreciative and fully cognisant of one who performs good deeds voluntarily.” (Surah Al-Baqarah verse 158)

        SO ALLAH HAS HIMSELF SAID SAFA AND MARWAH ARE IDOLS AND MUSLIM SHOULD CIRCLE IT LIKE ARAB PAGANS.

        This is very clear cut proof that not only is Kaba, Hajre Aswad are idol but Safa and Marwah Stones in Masjid al-Haram is also IDOL. if you want to use fanciful words and logic to escape truth it is your problem not mine.

      • @Indian Agnostic

        Namaste brother Indian Agnostic,

        The problem is fanatic muslims will find out every single way of twisting a verse to suit modern science but logically they are always caught.

      • Indian agnostic and VIk Brothers their Prophet Mohammad and Shahi Hadiths are undoubtedly telling Kaba or Hajre Aswad is Idol still Muslims are not ready to admit it but instead are ready to believe the lies of Zakir Naik that Kaba is direction for believers. LOL Zakir Naik lies have become more important than Prophet Mohammad sayings.

      • Namaste Brothers Sameer & Vik

        The whole irony is that most muslims are unaware of the pagan origins of hajj, cirumambulaing the kaaba, the prayer direction change from jeruslam to kaaba, the stealing of the kaaba stone (and its absence for 12 long years and its unhygienic treatment at the hands of non-muslims)

        if any muslim studies the history from islamic sources or questions his/her rituals rationally , he/she would not take long to accept that islam could not get rid of its idolatrous pagan practices

      • Indian Agnostic Bro these Muslims know all the truth in the back of their minds that is why they have made capital punishment for all those who leave Islam they are in eternal fear of losing their followers. WHERE THERE IS TRUTH THERE IS NO FEAR.

      • @Sameer and Indian Agnostic

        Namaste brothers,

        thanks to both of you for sharing your thoughts and shedding some light on this topic. Brothers, I even heard there was once an idol of Allah either inside this kaaba or existed along with this kaaba. Now, muslims must admit they are idolators. One more thing, they enjoyed breaking the idols of the arabian idolators, and when they are asked to break the kaaba into pieces, they get scared because their hypocrisy is shown right there and cannot admit they are idolators, otherwise a true non idolator should easily hack that kaaba into pieces.

        PS: I even told them I would sponsor the bulldozer so they can easily speed over the kaaba, but still they are scared to do so. Look at their height of hypocrisy!

  • @ all muslim brothers,
    My queries are as follows:
    1. If Kaba is a direction and u bow down to allah in that direction then tell me isnt allah in other directions, i am sure Muslims cant show there feet to kaba but tell me where allah aint. if allah is everywhere why do u have to go to masjid and face in the direction of the kaba to pray, u can do that in ur own backyard choosing any direction.

    please read ” The satanic versus” for how muhamad made a revelation and later he mentioned that he was inspired by satan to do it, if a messanger like muhammad can be inspired by satan to write one false verse then why cant we question the integrity of quran, was every verse revealed to him by allah or was inspired by satan to look as if it were real, is it a holy message or a satanic verse, are all muslims following holy message or a satanic verse deeply rooted and inspired by satan (link : http://www.beholdthebeast.com/satanic_verses_in_the_koran.htm)
    , well this is not my statement i read it somewhere so had to post it here, so please muslim brothers quench the thirst of my curiosity

    • Allah is not physically present everywhere but his knowledge is everywhere.Kaaba,it is simply the focal point for prayer.It is written in Sahih Bukhari,Book 8,Number 391:

      “Narrated By Ibn Abbas: When the Prophet entered the Ka’ba, he invoked Allah in each and every side of it and did not pray till he came out of it, and offered a two-Rak’at prayer facing the Ka’ba and said, “This is the Qibla.”

      The word “Qibla” means “direction.”

      Muhammad made it clear that the direction for prayer is towards the Kaaba. There is not a single Islamic text (i.e. Quranic verse or authentic Hadith) will instructs anyone to worship the Kaaba. We’re not even supposed to worship anything created, leave aside worshipping the Kaaba. In fact, the Quran says:

      “Say: “Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things.”(Surah 5:76)

      Hence, the Kaaba is not a “god” for us Muslims. It is simply a way to uniting the Muslims and a method of making of organization of the prayer.

      Regarding “Satanic verses”,here is response to it:
      http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html

      • @Monsoor

        brother, kaaba is still an idol regardless you bow before it as a direction or any other reason to worship Allah. I will only accept you as a non idolator if you accept the fact that every hindu is also a non idolator when he/she bows before a murthi in order to worship Ishwar. If muslims are not idolators but idol breakers, may I please ask why is the kaaba still in one piece today? Where is the motivation to break idols?

      • To Vik

        We do not worship rocks and stones.We do not worship neither the Kaaba nor the black stone.In fact Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said in his famous saying that:

        “Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim.”

        Islam and the Prophets are far from promoting any form of idol worship.You must never confuse or mix the Worship of GOD Almighty with the worship of man-made idols. The hindus’ and buddhists’ worship of idols is far from being even remotely compared to Islam. And as we have seen from the Saying of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, above.

        The hindus glorification of stones and rocks is not Islamic.Muslims bow down to GOD Almighty and only to GOD Almighty in Worship, the hindus pray to and glorify their idols.They address them as “your divinity” and “your holiness”. That’s clearly idol worship! You must never confuse the House of GOD Almighty, where GOD and His Servants meet, with the man-made idols and statues.

        There is a difference between worshiping GOD Almighty in the direction of His House, and putting idols and praying to them.Let’s not forget also that the hindus’ and the buddhists’ idols are statues. The same also for those who worship the fire, sun, moon, stars, etc.

      • @Mansoor

        Mansoor, why do you keep forgetting that every mosque or house is built of rocks, stones, sand, etc?

        Hindus and Buddhists do pray towards their idol but they are simulating that idol for God himself. They are acting their roles as if God would be before them just like the way of the idol. Hence Idol worship is Idol worship.

        I told you it does not matter what your intention or your words are, as long as you regularly bow towards the kaaba during you pray, you are considered as an idolator. Now, it does not matter whether you bow before 1 idol, 2, 10 or even millions. Since Allah is absent before us, you assume Kaaba to be the house of Allah, this is the same logic of hindus. Hindus and Buddhists know their God is not before them but inside the idol so that is why they do all this. As you can see there is not a big difference between you and hindu/buddhist idolators. There may be difference between a house and a statue, but both are solid objects that you bow before, and hence bowing towards a solid object during your prayer classifies you as an idolator. Better luck next time in refuting my claims. My claims are pure facts this is why you and all other muslims have difficulty refuting me on this issue.

        Let me show you a logical test.

        Idol = any solid object (picture, statue, table, car, mosque, mandir, tree, book, stone, rock, etc).

        Now, and idolater = anyone who bows towards these objects regularly while they pray for whatever reason (concentration/direction/serving/).

        Now lets see if a muslim is an idolator or not?

        kaaba = idol (since it is a physical object we can touch and see).

        muslim = bows towards the kaaba while praying.

        person bows towards an idol while praying is an idolator.

        Hence muslim = idolator

        Hence buddhist = idolator.

        There you go, Mansoor, you are proven to be an idolator, please try this test on anyone to see if he she is an idolator.

      • To Vik

        Note:I will touch your main arguments.

        As you said that “because we bow towards the kaaba,it makes us idolator.”

        My Response:

        For an idol worshiper, if an idol breaks he has to go and get a new one to worship. When the Kaaba was attacked and destroyed by forces in the past, worship did NOT stop, which proves Muslims do not worship the Kaaba.In addition, at the time of Prophet Muhammad, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the the call to prayer. Which idol worshiper stands on the idol he worships? NONE, proving we donot worship Kaaba. Also, people can go into the Kaaba and pray to God there. NO idol worshiper can ever go to into his own idol, to worship it, which proves Muslims donot worship Kaaba.In the past, Muslims had the right to worship Allah while inside the Kaaba. We shall now read:

        “To allow a righteous people to fight against a ferocious and mischief-loving people was fully justified. But the justification was far greater here, when the little Muslim community was not only fighting for its own existence against the Makkan Quraish, but for the very existence of the Faith in the One True God. They had as much right to be in Makkah and worship in the Ka’ba as the other Quraish; yet they were exiled for their Faith. It affected not the faith of one peculiar people. The principle involved was that of all worship, Jewish or Christian as well as Muslim, and of all foundations built for pious uses.” (Yusuf Ali Commentary – Surah Hajj 22:40)

        Muslims can worship Allah inside the Kaaba. It is clearly apparent from this fact that Muslims do NOT worship the Kaaba, but rather someone else, which is: Allah. An idol worshipper would NEVER go into the idol to worship it, which shows that the criteria for the Kaaba to be the thing that Muslims worships, it fails.

        Vik said:

        “Hindus and Buddhists know their God is not before them but inside the idol so that is why they do all this. As you can see there is not a big difference between you and hindu/buddhist idolators.”

        My Response:

        There is a big difference.You believe(as you said) that “God is inside the idol” For your an information muslims donot believe that Allah “resides in the Kaaba”.So there is no comparison.Kaaba is called house of God but it doesnot mean he lives in it.

      • @mansoor :
        >>>he invoked Allah in each and every side of it

        Does that mean allah came into kaba? What is the meaning of invoking?
        Any way to cast aside any doubts why dont muslims destroy kaba?

      • @mansoor,

        If I go to kaaba, and become suicide bomber and bomb the kaaba, what will yu say? Idol cannot protect itself? allah is false god, and islam is weak religion?

      • Namaste mansoor

        ————For an idol worshiper, if an idol breaks he has to go and get a new one to worship. When the Kaaba was attacked and destroyed by forces in the past, worship did NOT stop, which proves Muslims do not worship the Kaaba.————–

        I claim that Hindus are not idol worshippers but Muslims are. For me bowing, kissing and circumambulation to any stone/idol is idol worship. Since Hindus dont kiss their idols and never circumambulate those, they are not idol worshippers but Muslims are.

        —————In addition, at the time of Prophet Muhammad, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the the call to prayer. Which idol worshiper stands on the idol he worships? NONE, proving we donot worship Kaaba.————-

        1. True idolaters in past used to stand on their idols but now they have stopped it!
        2. Read the argument 5 of the article you are commenting on

        ————–Also, people can go into the Kaaba and pray to God there. NO idol worshiper can ever go to into his own idol, to worship it, which proves Muslims donot worship Kaaba. In the past, Muslims had the right to worship Allah while inside the Kaaba.———–

        True idolaters are those whose idols are big enough to be entered in. Since no Hindu has such idols, they are not idolaters but Muslims are 🙁

        Dont Muslims have right to worship Allah in Kaba idol now?

        —————Muslims can worship Allah inside the Kaaba. It is clearly apparent from this fact that Muslims do NOT worship the Kaaba, but rather someone else, which is: Allah. An idol worshipper would NEVER go into the idol to worship it, which shows that the criteria for the Kaaba to be the thing that Muslims worships, it fails.—————-

        It is clearly apparent that Hindus worship Eeshvar in front of stones and thus it is clear that Hindus dont worship the stones but someone else Eeshvar. But Kaba being an idol, is worshipped by Muslims even by sitting inside it. Also Muslims are liars since they claim to worship Allah but actually worship Kaba idol (since idol worship means bowing, kissing and circumambulating to any idol).

        ————–There is a big difference.You believe(as you said) that “God is inside the idol” For your an information muslims donot believe that Allah “resides in the Kaaba”.So there is no comparison.Kaaba is called house of God but it doesnot mean he lives in it.————-

        1. Muslims are confirmed to be liars now. They bow, kiss, and circumambulate to something in which Allah does not exist 🙁 Thus it shows that Muslims worship idols only and they dont worship Allah as they falsely claim! Hindus are million times better since they bow to something in which God exists 😉

        2. What does the word “house” mean?

      • To Vajra

        According to the Quran the Kaabah was the first place of worship.Kaabah was the first Mosque and place of worship for the Muslims,I repeat, it was a place of worship.A place to worship the one true God, not a place to commit idolatry.

        In fact when the Kaabah came back into the hands of the Muslims, the Muslims made sure to get rid of all the idols and idolatry that had been imposed on it by the pagans.Even prophet Muhammad destroyed the 360 idols at the site of the Kaabah.

        Shaykh Saalih Al Munajjid further pointed out:

        What we should point out here is that our prayer facing the direction of the Ka’bah has nothing to do with the structure of the Ka’bah, rather it has to do with its location. If it were to be destroyed, we would still pray in that direction, not to that structure.

        He also points out the major difference between Muslims praying towards the direction of the Ka’bah and idol worshippers:

        Hence we find that nowadays Muslims pray on the second storey and on the roof of the Grand Mosque in the Sanctuary of Makkah, facing the direction of the Ka’bah even though it is not directly in front of them. This is what millions of Muslims do throughout the world, praying in the direction of the Ka’bah even though they cannot see it. This demonstrates the great difference between the laws of Islam and the actions of the mushrikeen (polytheists) whose worship of their idols, stones and trees ceases when these objects cease to exist. Therefore if the mushrik cannot see his object of worship or idol, he does not face the direction of that thing.

      • To Vajra

        Stone Kissing and Idolatry.

        Just because the Prophet (peace be upon him) kissed the Black Stone that does not necessarily imply that he worshipped it.

        Let me quote a authentic Hadith:

        ‘Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you.”(Saheeh Bukhari)

        We can see that Umar was even acknowledging that this stone had no power to do anything. So if the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) truly worshipped this stone then he should have at least informed his companions that this stone was an idol and that they should pray to it. However, we see that the companions did not do such a thing because the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not promote or believe in such a concept.

        Muslims do not worship the black stone. They regard the stone as a created thing. The most fundamental principle of Islam is that nothing or no one is to be worshipped except Allah, the one true God.

        Because Muslims kiss that stone, you hastily concludes that Muslims worship it. A kiss, however, is not an act of worship unless it is accompanied by an intention to worship. If you kiss your child, for instance, that does not mean you worship your child.

        Muslims go to Makkah to glorify God, not to kiss a stone or worship a man or a semi-divinity. Kissing or touching the Black Stone at the Kabah is an optional action, not obligatory or prescribed. Those who kiss the Black Stone or touch it do not do it because they have faith in the Stone or attribute any superstitious qualities to it. Their faith is in God only. They kiss, touch or point at the Stone only as a token of respect or a symbol of love for Prophet Muhammad, who laid the Stone at the foundation of the Kabah when it was reconstructed.

        While there are traditions about kissing or touching the Stone, its real significance is as marker of the point at which one starts the Tawaaf.Even the traditions which talk about kissing or touching the stone are VERY CLEAR that the Stone is JUST A STONE.

        The Black Stone has had an interesting history during the Islamic period. In 930 AD a ruler of Bahrain – who belonged to a branch of Ismailism known as the Karmatians – sacked Makkah and carried the Black Stone away for some 70 years until it was ransomed.

        In the process, the Black Stone was cracked. It is now held together by a silver band. The fact that Islam was able to function without the Black Stone for 70 years is one of the best illustrations that it is but a marker for Tawaaf – and NOT an object of worship.

      • Namaste Mansoor

        Kissing the black stone was a pagan ritual which Muhammad could not give up despite creating his new religion.

        and Yes! Umar was smarter than Muhammad in realizing that kissing the black stone is in direct contrast with the religion his companion had created.That’s why he positioned this ritual as the sunnah of the prophet

        But lets be absolutely clear that Muhammad loved this stone and Umar has testified the same

        Sahih Muslim
        Book 007, Number 2916:
        Suwaid b. Ghafala reported: I saw Umar (Allah be pleased with him) kissing the Stone and clinging to it and saying: 1 saw Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) having great love for you. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Sufyin with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):” That he (‘Umar) said: But I saw Abu’l-Qasim (way peace be upon him) having great love for you.” And he did not’ mention about clinging to it.

        source: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/007.smt.html#007.2916

        and how foolish of Umar to have known that the black stone is useless , yet continue with the practice because Muhammad used to do this pagan ritual

      • To Indian Agnostic

        Islam strictly prohibits idolatry. We believe that the Black-Stone’s role in hajj is simply representative and symbolic nature, not related to belief in the stone itself as having any special power.Most muslims follow the example of Umar: they pay their respects to the Stone in a spirit of trust in Muhammad, not with any inherent belief in the Stone. This, however, does not indicate their disrespect to the Black Stone, but their belief that harm and benefit are in the hands of God, and nothing else.

      • @Mansoor

        Mansoor, I been listening to these same reasons from both muslims and modern hindus, that their idol is a symbol, or it symbolizes God, or it is a direction to pray to God, but SADLY, it still proves you to be an idolator as long as you continue to bow towards the kaaba. Please accept the fact that you are an idolator, or stop bowing towards the kaaba henceforth.

        Now, I would love to be a muslim but the problem is I do not want to bow before an idol like Kaaba, nor I want to recite Mohammad’s name each time I pray. I want all prayers only for Allah, now tell me, can you help me in this matter?? No you cannot, because it is not possible.

        So please return back to the Vedic Dharma, where you do not have to bow before an idol like Kaaba nor associate Mohammad’s name along with Allah.

      • Indian Agnostic Brother, Mansoor Brother has himself exposed that Muslims are worshiping at least 4-5 STONE IDOLS Kaba and Hajre Aswad and SAFA AND MARWAH ROCKS in MASJID AL HARAM, which in Koran allah has himself said that are symbols or idols and revolving around it is no sin. So Muslims are really worshiping 4-5 STONE IDOLS and MASJID AL HARAM IS “MASJID WITH IDOLS”.

        Hope Mansoor will give us more secrets of Islam.

      • Namaste Brother Sameer

        well said. Iconolatry and idolatry is what Islam is all about.

        a muslim is required to ape the behavior of a dead man and as a pillar of islam visit the kaaba and perform idolatrous rituals

        The God of quran is the only god who cannot do justice by himself , Muhammad intercedes in his decision making on judgment night

        the God of quran cannot be accepted on his , you are required to testify Muhammad to become a muslim ..is this an omnipotent god at all?

        the god of quran does not get exclusive rights in prayers, Muhammad is an inseparable part of a muslims prayer

        The day the God of Quran could stand all by himself in matters of Justice, Prayers and Baptism without Muhammad, is the day when one can search for Tauheed in Islam . Before that it’s a futile exercise

      • and brother Mansoor , what’s worse is that when the Islailites took awazy the black stone they used to urinate on it all these years.

        despite this fact being know to muslims , they still dont give up the practice of kissing this stone 🙁

      • Brother Indian Agnostic
        Just look at the brothers like mansoor! They dont even care to read the stuff they are commenting on! The hadith he gave is discussed in detail in the article and Muslims are proven to be human worshippers for the same 🙁

        And Brother, you raised an important issue of hygiene while kissing the Kaba idol. Zakir Bhai MBBS should search for some science from the Quran behind kissing something which was used as urinal for years! After all normal science is not going to help him prove his foolish claims as always.

      • Namaste Brother Vajra

        I think brother mansoor also realizes the idolatry in Islam.It’s just that he is not willing to admit it despite the mounting evidence

        the practice of imitating a man who died 1400 years ago cannot be called tauheed by any standards

      • Namaste Brother Indian Agnostic
        Problem with Muslim friends is that they think terminologies of Quran to be universal!

        Imagine M says H is idol worshipper and H says M is idol worshipper. Now both start debating to prove other as idol worshipper. M starts saying that M does “w” with his idol/stone which no H does with his stone and since H is idolater, “w” is not an act of idol worship !

        Now this M forgets that he proved nothing! What he had to prove (that H is idolater), was already in his assumption! H similarly can say that he does “d” with his idol/stone but no M does that. Since M is idolater, “d” is not an act of idol worship!

        Main problem is that Muslims dont know the logic behind any of their practice. They do it because they have been commanded for the same. It is same as if Muhammad would order in Quran that there will be 360 gods in Islam and this will be actual Tauheed, Muslims would have argued us today that since Hindus believe in One God and since they do Shirk (because Shirk is defined by Muhammad as unbelief in 360 gods), we Muslims have actual Tauheed!

      • Why did Mohammad kiss the Black Stone Hajr Aswad (Relic of Al Uzza), which pagan arabs believed that kissing it without wearing underwears would give the Sexual Power of many People and Prophet Mohammad used to kiss it and the myth of Mohammad having sexual power of several man came into being so Prophet Mohammad himself believed in this pagan superstition and why did Muslim keep Sabbath in Friday, which the Arab pagan kept as Sabbath for Al Uzza.

        Now how will Zakir Naik explain why a direction should be kissed without wearing UNDERWEAR (of course he will rape science to do this)

      • ———–It is clearly apparent that Hindus worship Eeshvar in front of stones and thus it is clear that Hindus dont worship the stones but someone else Eeshvar………..

        why you worship Eeshvar in front of stones?why you cannot worship Eeshvar without any stone?

      • Good question Mansoor

        and the same question you must ask to muslims who face the kaba while praying to Allah. who unnecessarily go the house of Allah for hajj , who circle around it foolishly 7 times like the pagans used top do

        i would suggest that you should start a movement to show that stones are useless by first asking the muslims to throw the black stone in the arabian sea.

        until you do that , it would be very difficult for you to explain to the hindus that stones are useless

      • Brother Indian Agnostic

        Just look at Brother mansoor asking the same question as us when given the same reply as his 😉

        Now he is realizing that if any idol/stone is required for worshipping God, it is nothing but idol/stone worship 🙂

        Anyway, better late than never!

      • Namaste Brother Vajra

        I guess you are right that .brother mansoor has not gone through the QA sections of the article.

        lets hope he reads it once to avoid redundancy

      • Hindu god is omnipresent and to deny idol worship is denying the basic quality of god. What is wrong in idol worship? Is god interested in my love for him or in cursing me to eternal hell?

        Can we ever love a god who keeps changing rules and threatens harshest punishment?

      • abe @mansoor,

        I worship stone idols, and I worship 33 crore gods and goddesses and I also worship sun, moon, stars, bottle of liquor, woman’s pussy etc. Now what the hell is you muslim moron’s problem? If you come and start preaching to me, (like zakir naik,) that idolatory is wrong, and my idols cant protect themselve,s I too will bomb up your mosques and taunt you, that your islam is wrong and false religion which cannot protect its mosques. Like we demolished 270 mosques (kabar) in gujarat. Hinduism is powerful and true, islam is false.

        HAR HAR MAHADEV

      • budhists has no god and they can have idols whats wrong in that ? Can you confirm that taliban did wrong in destroying bamian bdha statues.It will be of use to whoever is discussing with you here.

      • Namaste mansoor
        As Brother Vik highlighted, you bow down to Kaba, you kiss it, you circumambulate it! I wonder this is all an idolater does with his idol! Actually the problem with other idolaters is that they dont subscribe to the Islamic version of idol worship and it makes Muslims hate them. Muslims hate idols of others not because they know shortcomings of idol worship but because it is written in Quran.

        Muslims submit to Allah, Muhammad, Quran without doubting them. This is Islam which means submission. Submission of your brain to foolishness and logic to blind beliefs. May Eeshvar help those who mistakenly think themselves as submitted but are actually slaves who even dont have right to choose whom they should submit and why

      • If Allah is formless,why he sits on throne then….You people should not even make masjid then because it is a finite thing………You people should do your prayer anywhere,no need of any mosque because its an idol(finite)…..break all mosques first……why you all want mosque then to pray??..:D

      • To Krishna

        You said “If Allah is formless,why he sits on throne”

        Visit: Is Allah on the ‘Throne’? Click http://www.renaissance.com.pk/junq12y1.html

        Now regarding Masjid

        The word masjid from a linguistic point of view refers to a place of prostration without any religious distinction. From a legal point of view the word masjid in shari`ah constitutes every place on earth that is fit for prostration, whether or not it is a building.

        According to the hadith, any place on the earth is a masjid for Muslims.

      • if every where is masjid,then no need of any special construction or bowing in a shapeful thing.infact Allah himself is an idol otherwise there would not be atleast considered sin for worshpping through idol….Allah is not omnipresent in islam…And hence anything that is not omnipresent is finite thing only and hence Allah himself is an idol…..He is an unseen idol..
        .
        And regarding that site it tells about physical aspects of Allah..So whatever it may be Its clear that he is a finite thing…..So Allah is an unseen idol…..otherwise why it talks about physical aspects of Allah Almighty as written in your site..

  • OH dear Lord…Me being a mere lay man ( but ALHAMDULILLAH a muslim …..can point out so many mistakes in this article despute the fact that i only could skim through it….for a start the author said that A circle has infinite points with in ( denouncing that we circumambulate around KAABA for TAWHEED)…butt let me remind him that all those seven circles that we draw have a signle centre point…so the centre point is only one mere point ( basic maths)…and the commentators very easily overlooked the fact that Javeria (R.A) once married had a legitimate right over Prophet’s property and is our UMMUL MOMINEEN……where any king would just march right in and strip the war booty. On other hand in other case Prophet Mohammad PBUH threw a cloth at her for her to cover herself.)..and INDEED ALLAH knows everything ( unlike in your religion where God has to come to earth to find out what the flaws in the community were…and UNlike SHIVA who had to CHOP OFF HIS OWN YOUNG SON’s HEAD just because he refused to give up the duty his mother had assigned..and SOme GOD is SHIV when he could not gve birth to his son again and they had to find foranother baby’s head endingup with an elephant’s head)……and YESS ALLAH KNOWS everything but for the INTERACTION with the PROPHET PBUH and to add to his knowledge the archangel was told to deliver the message. ………………….and How come Shiv Linga in KASHMIR melted so much …..and PLEASE dont talk about unity in HINDUISM……the caste system you had and still have is the worst oif all..where a ACHOOT wasnt even allowed to hear the holy verse…whyyyyy????????…and and and IMAGINE THE Mighty CReator of the Universe being punished in hindu religion…..who is He accountable to??…..amd noT ON A SINGLE PLACE is it mentioned that Prophet PBUH is the father of all nations HE is REHMAT UL LIL ALIMEEN……….man i can go on and on and on and on…….anddd Doesnt a father or mother swear by their son or daughter…..does it mean they are inferior to their children….

    • @Mallik

      sorry dear, you appear to be a Qadiyani and have come to a wrong site. We follow Vedas in this site, not Quran which allows you to bow before an idol like the kaaba and contradicts on the other side by saying idolatry is prohibited. We cannot reply to you as you are a Qadiyani. Even Sunnis reject Qadiyanis!!

    • Allah didnt even know that satan will revolt against him and will not bow to adam. If he knew he wouldnt have asked satan to bow. All this troubles of ours is because of satan. Instead of punishing satan he is punishing us.As if allah doesnt know what people has done,he requires last prophet to judge us. The peacfull last prophet killed an entire tribe who was captured and kept as slave a captured lady. Isnt jesus better than the last prophet? He never killed anyone,instead he gave his life for converting the fools. Also is there any proof you rasool will be the last prophet exept your last prophet proclaiming that he is the last prophet. btw can i ask why are ahmadiyas banned in your countries. Is allah importanat or the rasool?

  • Hindus People do not worship idols; they use the idols and images as a channel to focus the mind upon worshipping God. Worshippers realize that the image is not God, that God is not contained within the image.

    To illustrate this point, Swami Sivananda uses an excellent analogy of a radio channeling music. He explains that the music is not confined within the radio, “a mere piece of a mechanical lifeless structure,” but serves as a channel to bring the music to our ears. God is not confined within the idol or image (a mere statue of plastic), but can serve as a concrete link to the devotee do worship idols,
    but Christians, Jews and Muslims worship idols.
    muslims pray graveyard of sufis and blackstone of mecca don’t they?

    Did the Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes

    Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes

    Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes

    Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes

    What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.

    Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes

    Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes

    Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.

    Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

    Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes

    Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.

    At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.

    Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.

    Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.

    Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.

    Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

    Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

    Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

    Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

    What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”

    The variable names (Sin, Hubul, llumquh, Al-ilah) of moon god were used by various tribes of pagan Arabs. Pagan god SIN was the name of Moon-god.

    History tells us two theories of Allah’s existence in and around the Kaba Sharif: (1) Pagans used to call the largest Statue amongst the 360 deities as ALLAH—whom they used to consider the chief/supreme deity (god). Or, (2) Pagan Arabs used to worship 360 deities inside Kaba Sharif, and they used to consider them different smaller deities under the total control of a single most powerful chief deity called “ALLAH” and was the all-powerful

    In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.

    That means that quran is not from God actually from muhamad’s so that he could rule then.

  • O Lingam (Penis) Pujaari (Worshipper) Hindus,

    If you still think that while you being worshippers of a black dick of Shiva (Penis) and
    disgusting Yoni (Vagina) of Shiva’s wife, and you could defame Islam, then keep
    going and your time will come soon. People will see soon how you Hindus love Penis and
    Yoni and how disgusting your religion is.

    • Opposing Lingam
      Namaste
      You can choose Vedas according to which God has been explained as-

      He is One and only One, Sustains entire universe, Omnipresent, Formless, All-Powerful, Perfect, Omniscient, Unborn, Eternal and supports us always. He alone should be worshipped. (Yajurveda 40.8)

      Hope you will bring decency in your language so that we can discuss substantial issues.

      best regards

    • Hi Lingam,
      shiva linga is not shivas dick, It is a representation of column of fire.Anyway even if we interpret in your own understanding what is so disgusting about penis and vagina becaus of which your own existenc is possible? Is sex such a wrong act?
      How can you insult the same when your prophet is praised for having strength of ten men ( though he has got only one kid!!!)?
      None here are to defame islam. Islam means submission to god and it is one way of reaching god. But however you are not following islam because you did not submit to god perfectly,othrwise the above derogatory words wouldnt have come from you, you would have left the punishment to god instead of this hatred in you. Being a non follower yourself you are preaching us about your religion isnt it laughable? Better follow your religion and let us follow our religion of hinduism and vedas.

      peace be upon us

    • @opposing lingam
      Your false prophet mohammed was a paedophile child molestor, rapist murderer, and a looter. Why should we worship him, atleast we are worshipping creation and not destruction. Now ofcourse under influence of of destruction worshippers like you, I also worship destruction.
      I LOOOOVVVEEEE the destruction wrought about in afghanistan and iraq and revel in the horror stories told by them
      I also love the destruction of kashmiri muslims and gujarati muslims.

      See, how you managed to convert me, moron.

  • Muslims know that Vedas do not talk that God is many and idol worship is not supported in it. We hindus also know that Quran do not talk that God is limited to just a stone. Then why Puranas talk about it when both Vedas and Puranas are written by Veda Vyas? Why Kabaa stone is given a respect just like God? Please go thro the website http://testdiyadanu.fatcow.com/faq/?p=31 for more info.

  • It has no end to most of us.The holy Quran says “The Jews say, ‘The Christians stand not on anything’; the Christians say, ‘The Jews stand not on anything’; yet they recite the Book. So too the ignorant say the like of them… -2:113. I think all the holy scriptures says like this.However this may be end if we follow this:-
    A church,a temple or a kaba stone,
    Quran or Bible or a martyr’s bone,
    All these and more my heart can tolerate,
    Since my religion now is love alone.-(Abul Ala)

  • Gadha.. Ullu ka pattha.. shayad iske paas koi kaam nahi hai..

    AND SOME JOBLESS ASSHOLES ARE READING HIS POSTS AND REPLYING TO HIM. 🙂

    AGNIVEER THE ASSHOLE.

    • @builkder
      Dont say anything about Satyagni, he is the last prophet and the seal of prophets.

      He is better prophet than mohammed bin abdullah, the rapist, murderere, paedophile child molestor, who banged his own bahu (daughter in law) (zainab) and a 6 year old ayesha. and preached that the whole world must follow his cult or die.

      I am sure Satyagni has got better character than that mohammed bastard.

  • KAABA NOT ONLY EXPOSES MUSLIM OF THEIR CLAIM AS NON IDOL WORSHIPERS but also exposes MUSLIMS CLAIM OF MONOTHEISM BECAUSE KAABA REPRESENTS THREE GODS.

    KAABA IS MUSLIM TRINITY BECAUSE BLACK STONE REPRESENTS (UZZA) , THE CUBIC KAABA REPRESENTED THE SUN GODDESS (ALLAT) AND HATIM WALL REPRESENTED AS MOON GOD (ALLAH).

    SO ISLAM IS NOT A MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION IN FACT MUSLIMS ARE WORSHIPING TRINITY OF VENUS, SUN AND MOON (THIS IS THE ULTIMATE REALITY)

  • Well,well. It’s look like the greatest debate in the century. It takes Guys like Satyagni and Zakir Naik to start the ball rolling. Anyway it takes two to tango.And the rest jump the band wagon. Armed with notes from religious books, notes and or word of wisdom from holy man either dead or alive. In the arsenal, scientific facts and data to back up the debate. Actually, it is all hot air noting special. Vaporized into the thin air. Probably pollute the air and the environment. Anyway the world will be a boring place to live IF everything is perfect. Thanks to those two self appointed prophets for adding spice to this world.

  • lol so wat should we call u arya samajis, HUMAN WORSHIPERS
    rig veda 8:6:4 Before his hot displeasure all the peoples, all the men, bow down…
    rig veda 5:36:6 Maruts, let all the people in obeisance bow down before this youthful Srutaratha

    RigVed 10.30.6 says

    “So maidens bow before the youthful gallant who comes with love to them who yearn to meet him.”

    now dont say ”fake translation” they ve take this verse frm your official site of arya samaj

    AND AGNIVEER IS TOO ASHAMED OF THE REBUTTAL THATS WHY HE DELETED MR. STEVE’S COMMENT http://truthofhinduism.com/rebuttals/rebuttal-to-Satyagni-kaaba-idol-worship/

    • YEAH ME again with your FUNNY JOKES. I will give you the verse in which muslims themselves have accepted they are worshipping the RIGHT HAND IDOL OF ALLAH (and also put right hand of allah in google and many sites where muslims are seeking blessings from this right hand of allah)

      “who ever negotiates this stone as if he is negotiating the Merciful hand.” Narrated by the Dailami from Abu Huraira

      The Noble Prophet Muhammad (blessings of Allah be upon him and his family) has said, “Perform the Tawaf of the House (Kaaba) and rub your hand over the Corner which has Hajr Aswad – the Black Stone, because this is the right hand of Allah on His Earth which He shakes with His creations.”

      so brother now should not have doubt that Kaaba is idol worship because Prophet Mohammad himself is telling that and I have taken this from Islamic websites.

      MUSLIMS are themselves DEAD HUMAN WORSHIPERS worshiping graves but accusing Hindus of HUMAN WORSHIPERS.

      • khe khe khe grave worshipers, u forgot u worship human organs and animals too, and about your black stone thing the author has answered it very well, u r either too lazy or scared to read the rebutal thats why u r asking me about black stone, khe khe khe khe kaba worship i showed u some worship now wat i should call u HUMAN WORSHIPERS, khe khe khe khe, and the hadith u posted does not prove wat u wants to prove khe khe khe khe, bro read the rebuttal. and HIINDUS ARE PURE IDOLATORS WHO NOT ONLY WORSHIPS IDOL BUT ALSO ORGANS OF HUMAN, HUMANS AND ANIMALS TOO, khe khe khe khe worshiping graves lol, U R CREMATE WORSHIPERS, KHE KHE KHE KHE

      • oh really, can u show me there, and i can show u many hindus who says hindus worships demi gods. lol u dick and vagina worshipers, saalo kuch to sharam karo tumare bhagwaan to chutkhor the isiliye madarchodon ne chuth ki pooja karna shuri karli, see YONI which means vagina which u worship and the dead horse ritual in which hindu women should fuk a dead horse lol, ur ishwar does not even leave animals frm being raped

      • lol finally madarchod anti muslims admitting that they dont know anything about toilet paper (vedas) and copying from anti islamic sites

      • Hello @yeah me and kafir786

        GUYS! seems like that pakistani who was commenting in the afternoon had succeeded in both of you lose your composures !

        i was also about to stoop down to his level but fortunately time was not on my side

        let’s get back to our Indian way of discussion 🙂

      • @yeah me

        Well i apologize to you on his behalf..but please regain your composure

        you are the owner of a site man! ..you are rebutting this site ..remember that bro

        no matter what our disagreements be…. be it you , me or kafir786 ..we all are discussing higher matters ..let not this site or yours become a playground of abusive slang

        and guess what ..none of us can deny that there exists an uncomfortable bonhomie between us ..we are after all trying to seek the right framework of human values …and towards that our words and actions must at least be exemplar keeping that motto in mind

        moreover ..we have a hell lot of things to fight about ..so lets start fighting again… the way we do ..with reason.logic and facts [ but i am yet to see you being reasonable by the way 😉 ]

      • lol very funny, i didnt own any site if i had owned then why would i upload on youtube, lol i can say u r Satyagni just writing as indian agnostic

      • @yeah me isn’t TOH your site?

        you have been claiming that all the time ..now don’t tell me otherwise

      • @Yeah Me

        ok Yeah Me, let me unleash a rocket on you and every muslim other there, accept my challenge if you dare without giving any stupid reasons.

        A true idolator will never hack or break his her idol into pieces. Now, if muslims say they are not idolators, they have to prove it, by hacking the kaaba into pieces, otherwise for whatever reason they refuse to destroy the black stone, they are hypocrites and hence makes them idolators no matter what reason they provide.

        If they refuse to break the idol (kaaba), then they better shut up and accept the fact that they are idolators equally as buddists and ignorant hindus are.

      • IF WE ARE KABA WORSHIPERS BECOZ WE WORSHIP KABA WHICH IS MILES AWAY AND BECOZ WE BOW TOWARDS IT THEN WHAT ABOUT YOU, YOUR VEDIC VERSES CLEARLY SAYS TO BOW DOWN TO MALE AND ALSO READ THER VERSES, lol khe khe khe human worshipers

      • Fool I think it is you who need to consult a psychiatrist because mohammad himself says it is an idol, Hand of Allah, and you are a follower of necrophilia Mohammad who fucked his adopted Mothers dead body that is the other reason for you to go to psychiatrist. Your own holy scriptures tell this see this video

        PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A NECROPHILIA ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS OWN HOLY SCRIPTURES.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwf2_RNejv0&feature=related

      • yeah come on abuse me when nothing else works, and u r just saying about hinduism in the name of islam, having sex with dead horse is in your scriptures ur gods had fuked animals, many animals are prescribed in that ritual so kafir786 which animal did ur mom fuked pig donkey or doggy

      • @yeahme you are referring to Ashwamedh Yagna.. and its clear and precise tranlation from word to word can be found in the translation at “Vedicbooks.com” please be a dumb fool who just copies and Pasted here and there, i am sure you are some Kid with no knowledge

        @Kaffir786 why are you getting to vehement, that all these muslims can you .. so just keep your calm and request Satyagni to block these people and their comments

        @Satyagni Team please remove these useless and abusive comments. as they are unnecessarily making the site bulky and slow to load, also no valuable content is added.

      • and as far as im concerned about that hadith, pigshit eater wait for my rebuttal on that, i ll upload it on youtube and give u the link, anf first u clarify your hot dead animal fuking ritual frm which u r born out of

      • oooops pigshit eater, there is already one rebuttal to that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVvLgtRJ5NM&feature=related
        hmmm, khe khe khe khe i could ve made that rebuttal but thanx to that brother, may allah bless that brother, ok i ll come to u pigshit eater son of animals, do u got anything to say about sex horse and animal ritual, khe khe khe off course not u could not even clarify the vedic verses and started abusing me u motherfuker

      • asshole your mom’s boyfriend zakaria misinterpreted that hadith of arabic to fool brainless apes like u, the ”’islamresponses” has translated it well, and i know u ppls trick very well, when cannot do anything with quran just posts fabricated hadiths

      • by saying muslims worship the kaba becoz they bow down to it, you people have proved that you are a human worshipers, becoz if bowing is a worship then your vedas clearly commands to bow to male and that would make you human worshipers, whereas quran condemns idolatory, sorry brothers this you don’t have sufficient knowledge about this.

    • yeah me
      Please let us know about this “official site” of Arya Samaj. Give here the link and then let everybody know that you belong to the coward cult, which allows its followers to tell lies to misguide others. Was Griffith Arya Samaji yeah me Taqiyya Master?

      • oh vajra why are you so lazy to read the rebuttal, ur official site is aryasamajjamnagar.org and the verse they posted is taken frm your official site and the 1 verses i posted is a english translation of 10th mandal and i will post the transeleration of the 5:36 verse,
        5:36:6…aise tarun shutrath ke liye unki samast prajaye seva bhav se yukt hokar NAMAN karti hai.
        and for the last verse u can see the rebuttal they ve scanned image taken frm ur site, thats why i tell u ppl to read ur vedas. and ur dayanand was the follower of deception and also vishnu used deception many times

      • @yeah me
        I knew you will not accept your foolishness and falsehood. I am talking about the very meanings you gave in your last comment about 5/36/6, and two others. You have given Griffith’s translations in the name of Arya Samaj and still hanging here without shame.

        Regarding your hindi translation, first of all the translation of Rigved 5:36:6 on jamnagar site is not as you have given. You keep on lying Taqiyya Master. It is written there that “manushya achchhe prakaar namra hoven”. Where is written that “Naman karti hai”?

        Anyway, “Naman” in Sanskrit/hindi is not equivalent to worship at all. Even if somewhere it is mentioned that “hum vidwaan ko naman karte hain” does not mean we worship the scholar. It just means that we respect scholars. Word Namaste has also been derived from “Nam” which just means respect.

        Forget Dayanand, one of Allah’s name is “Al Maakir” which means greatest deceiver! Now feel proud to be the follower of greatest deceiver and His Rasool (who was an ummi too)!

  • ZAKIR NAIK is an OPEN LIAR who says that facing KAABA is not an IDOL WORSHIP when the whole UMMAH knows that “ALLAH’S RIGHT HAND IDOL” is placed there. Muslim believers openly say in their website and blogs “ALLAH’S RIGHT HAND IDOL” control them in their PRAYERS.

    so whoever says that facing KAABA is not IDOL WORSHIP IS BIG BIG LIAR

  • Muhammad: A Rapist
    Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

    Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh’s Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, ‘How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh’s Apostle who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, ‘It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.” [1]

    Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

    In the Qur’an, Muhammad’s god made it legal to have intercourse with slave women, the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture.[2]

    Juwairiya:

    Ibn Aun has narrated: “I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn ‘Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn ‘Umar was in that army.” Bukhari 3.46.717 (see also Muslim 019. 4292)

    Muhammad sent one of his companions; Bareeda bin Haseeb, to spy on the Bani al-Mustaliq and after assessing the situation he ordered his men to attack. Muslims came out of Madina on 2nd Shaban of 5 A.H. and encamped at Muraisa, a place at a distance of 9 marches from Medina.

    Juwairiya was one of the captives during the raid of Banu Mustaliq. When all the prisoners were made slaves and distributed among the victorious Muslim soldiers, Juwairiyah fell to the lot of Thabit bin Qais. She was the daughter of Haris, the leader of the clan.

    The Islamic site muslims.ws writes: “She was the daughter of the leader of the clan, and therefore, very much felt the discomfiture and disgrace of being made slave of an ordinary Muslim soldier. Therefore, she requested him to release her on payment of ransom. Thabit agreed to this, if she could pay him 9 Auqias of gold. Hazrat Juwairiyah had no ready money with her. She tried to raise this amount through contributions, and approached the Holy Prophet also in this connection. She said to him “0’ Prophet of Allah! I am the daughter of Al Haris bin Zarar, the Lord (chief) of his people. You know that it is by chance that our people have fallen captive and I have fallen to the share of Thabit bin Qais and have requested him to release me considering my status, but he has refused. Please do an act of kindness and save me from humiliation”. The Holy Prophet was moved and asked the captive woman if she would like a thing still better. She asked as to what was that thing. He said that he was ready to pay her ransom and marry her if she liked. She agreed to this proposal. So the Holy Prophet paid the amount of ransom and married her.”

    First he raids a population without warning because they were easy targets and wealthy. As usual he kills the unarmed able-bodied men, plunders their belongings, then enslaves the rest. The narrator says, “According to the prevailing practice all the prisoners were made slaves and distributed among the victorious Muslim soldiers.” Prevailing practice? Didn’t Muhammad come to show people the right way? Why should he follow the evil prevailing practices of a people whom he called ignorant? By doing so, he set the example and those evil practices became standard practices of the Muslims for ever.

    The narrator says that upon seeing Juwairiyah the Prophet was “moved”. Methinks that movement must have happened in his male organ because his heart seems to have remained cold and unmoved. Although Muslims call this marriage, I call it rape.

    Safiyah

    Safiyah was a beautiful 17 years old Jewish woman who was captured when Muhammad’s troops raided Kheibar. She was the daughter or Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Banu Nadir, a Jewish tribe of Medina , whom Muhammad had beheaded two years earlier along with the men of Banu Quriaza. The tribe of Banu Nadir had been already banished from Medina and their properties were confiscated.

    Safiyah had married to her cousin Kinana, who was a young Jewish leader of Kheibar. When Muhammad raided that fortress, he killed its unarmed men and captured the rest. A Jewish traitor, (reminds me of Noam Chomsky) to gain Muhammad’s favor and be spared from death, told him that Kinana was the treasurer of the town and that he used to hide the money in some ruins. Muhammad ordered Kinana to be tortured to reveal the whereabouts of the treasures and killed him.

    Then he asked the prettiest woman from amongst that captives to be brought to him. Ibn Ishaq writes: “The apostle occupied the Jewish forts one after the other, taking prisoners as he went. Among these were Safiya, the wife of Kinana, the Khaibar chief, and two female cousins: [sisters of Kinana] the apostle chose Safiya for himself. The other prisoners were distributed among the Muslims. Bilal brought Safiya to the apostle, and they passed the bodies of several Jews on the way. Safiya’s female companions lamented and strewed dust on their heads. When the apostle of Allâh observed this scene, he said, ‘Remove these she devils from me.’ But he ordered Safiya to remain, and threw his reda [cloak] over her. So the Muslims knew he had reserved her for his own. The apostle reprimanded Bilal, saying, ‘Hast thou lost all feelings of mercy, to make women pass by the corpses of their husbands?’”

    Safiyah was taken to Muhammad’s tent. Muhammad wanted to have sex with her on that very night, only hours after torturing to death her husband. She resisted his advances. That night Abu Ayyub al-Ansari guarded the tent of Muhammad. When, in the early dawn, Muhammad saw Abu Ayyub strolling up and down, he asked him what he meant by this sentry-go; he replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, I was really afraid for you on her account”. (Ibn Ishaq, p. 766)

    The next day Muhammad covered Safiyah with his mantle, an act signifying that she is now his. Safiyah was groomed and made-up for Muhammad by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik and was taken to Muhammad who married her in a mock marriage ceremony and raped her that night. Muslims call this marriage. I call that rape. I am certain not many young women would like to jump into bed with an old man who happens to be the murderer of their father and husband and many other relatives. That poor woman had no choice; therefore that marriage was nothing but a mockery of this sacred institution. At that time Muhammad was close to sixty years old.

    Rayhanah

    Another victim of Muhammad was Rayhana, a 15 year old girl from the tribe of Banu Quraiza. Muhammad massacred all the men of that tribe. Then women were brought to him to pick and he chose Rayhana. Rayhana never married Muhammad and unlike Juwairiyah and Safiyah never feigned being a Muslim to have an easier life. She preferred to remain a sex slave rather the wife of the murderer of her father, brothers and uncles. .

    ——————————————————————————–

    [1] Bukhari, Volume 5, Book59, Number 459. Many other canonical hadiths recount how Muhammad approved intercourse with slave women, but said coitus interruptus was unnecessary because if Allâh willed someone to be born, that soul would be born regardless of coitus interruptus. See the following:

    Bukhari 3.34.432: “Narrated Abu Saeed Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allâh’s Apostle he said, “O Allâh’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?” The Prophet said, “Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allâh has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.”

    Sahih Muslim is another source considered factual and accurate by virtually all Muslims. Here is Sahih Muslim 8.3381: “Allâh’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about ‘azl, (coitus interruptus) whereupon he said: The child does not come from all the liquid (semen) and when Allâh intends to create anything nothing can prevent it (from coming into existence).”

    Muslims also consider Abu Dawood highly accurate and factual. Here is Abu Dawood, 29.29.32.100: “Yahya related to me from Malik from Humayd ibn Qays al-Makki that a man called Dhafif said that Ibn Abbas was asked about coitus interruptus. He called a slave-girl of his and said, ‘Tell them.’ She was embarrassed. He said, ‘It is alright, and I do it myself.’ Malik said, ‘A man does not practise coitus interruptus with a free woman unless she gives her permission. There is no harm in practicing coitus interruptus with a slave-girl without her permission. Someone who has someone else’s slave-girl as a wife does not practice coitus interruptus with her unless her people give him permission.’”

    See also Bukhari 3.46.718, 5.59.459, 7.62.135, 7.62.136, 7.62.137, 8.77.600, 9.93.506 Sahih Muslim 8.3383, 8.3388, 8.3376, 8.3377, and several more.

    [2] Qur’an, 4:24: “Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allâh ordained (Prohibitions) against you.”
    Qur’an, 33:50): “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allâh has assigned to thee.”
    Qur’an, 4:3: “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.”

  • To the stupid muslims

    “lingam” is one of the most misunderstood motifs of Hinduism. It has been subject to such a bad smear campaigning by Westerners, especially missionaries, that even Merriam-Webster dictionary defines it as a stylized phallic symbol (whatever that might mean!). Linga actually means a “mark” in Sanskrit, is one of the few examples of an aniconic motif in Hinduism. (more accurately, a differentiating mark…It is a symbol that points to an inference. The Linga is only the outward symbol of the formless being, Lord Siva) .Also, many of these smear campaigners take their views from the obscure left hand tantric sects to make fun of lingam. It is as if taking the views of the obscure Church of Satan, who reversed certain verses of Bible, and showing them to be equivalent of mainstream christian beliefs.

    Monier Williams, a professor of Sanskrit at Oxford University, who initially believed it to be a symbol of Phallic worship, later said that before Western invasion of India, “the symbol of linga, is “never in the mind of a Saiva ( or Siva-worshipper) connected with indecent ideas, nor with sexual love.”

    Swami Vivekananda gave by far the best rebuttal to Western claims that it might be a symbol of phallic worship, by giving proof from the vedas.

    Swami Vivekananda gave a lecture at the Paris Congress of the History of Religions in 1900 during which he refuted the statements of some Western scholars that referred to Shiva linga as phallic worship. Vivekananda’s words at the congress were in connection with the paper read by Mr.Gustav Oppert, a German Orientalist, who tried to trace the origin of the Shalagrama-Shila and the Shiva-Linga to phallicism. To this Vivekananda objected,adducing proof from the Vedas, and particularly the Atharva-Veda Samhita, to the effect that the Shiva-Linga had its origin in the idea of the Yupa-Stambha or Skambha—the sacrificial post, idealized in Vedic ritual as the symbol of the Eternal Brahman. According to Vivekananda, the explanation of the Shalagrama-Shila as a phallic emblem was an imaginary invention. Vivekananda argued that the explanation of the Shiva-Linga as a phallic emblem was brought forward by the most thoughtless, and was forthcoming in India in her most degraded times, those of the downfall of Buddhism.

    And the story behind the origin of lingam can be seen here.

    http://www.godandguru.com/shiv-puran/chapter-2.html

    Swami Sivananda, also explains why equating Siva Lingam with the phallus is a mistake. According to him, “This is not only a serious mistake, but also a grave blunder. In the post-Vedic period, the Linga became symbolical of the generative power of the Lord Siva. Linga is the differentiating mark. It is certainly not the sex-mark. You will find in the Linga Purana: Pradhanam prakritir yadahur-lingamuttamam; Gandhavarnarasairhinam sabda-sparsadi-varjitam—The foremost Linga which is primary and is devoid of smell, colour, taste, hearing, touch, etc., is spoken of as Prakriti (Nature).”

    H.H.Wilson, who is a prolific writer & translator of numerous ancient Hindu scriptures (he prepared the 1st Sanskrit-English dictionary), agrees with him. According to him,

    “Although, however, the Linga holds a prominent place…the spirit of the worship is as little influenced by the character of the type as can well be imagined. There is nothing like the phallic orgies of antiquity: it is all mystical and spiritual. The Linga is twofold, external and internal. The ignorant, who need a visible sign, worship Siva through a ‘mark’ or ‘type’–which is the proper meaning of the word ‘Linga’–of wood or stone; but the wise look upon this outward emblem as nothing, and contemplate in their minds the invisible, inscrutable type, which is Siva himself. Whatever may have been the origin of this form of worship in India, the notions upon which it was founded, according to the impure fancies of European writers, are not to be traced in even the Saiva Puránas.”

    The famous novelist, Christopher Isherwood, puts an interesting spin about the misinterpretation of the linga as a sex symbol.

    “It has been claimed by some foreign scholars that the linga and its surrounding basin are sexual symbols, representing the male and the female organs respectively. Well — anything can be regarded as a symbol of anything; that much is obvious. There are people who have chosen to see sexual symbolism in the spire and the font of a Christian church. But Christians do not recognize this symbolism; and even the most hostile critics of Christianity cannot pretend that it is a sex-cult. The same is true of the cult of Shiva.

    It does not even seem probable that the linga was sexual in its origin. For we find, in the history both of Hinduism and Buddhism, that poor devotees were accustomed to dedicate to God a model of a temple or tope (a dome-shaped monument) in imitation of wealthy devotees who dedicated full-sized buildings. So the linga may well have begun as a monument in miniature.…One of the greatest causes of misunderstanding of Hinduism by foreign scholars is perhaps a subconsciously respected tradition that God must be one sex only, or at least only one sex at a time.”

    Finally, Britannica encyclopedia has to say this about the linga:

    “The linga was originally understood as a representation of the phallus, as sculptures from the early centuries of the Common Era make clear, but many—probably most—modern Hindus do not think of the linga in these terms. In fact, the stylization of the linga into a smooth cylindrical mass asserts a distinctively aniconic meaning, quite by contrast to the murtis (deities in image form) that serve otherwise as the most important foci of Hindu worship. This interplay is found in Shaivite temples, where the linga is apt to be at the centre, surrounded by a panoply of murtis.”

    Chris, an England native who started following Sanatana Dharma recently, has an excellent article on the symbolic meaning of lingam in his blog here.

    http://western-hindu.org/2009/10/29/shaivite-hindu-symbols-the-shivalingam/

    Another excellent website that tells us more about the symbology behind various Hindu symbols is

    http://hinduwisdom.info/Symbolism_in_Hinduism.htm#Trimurti (Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu & Lord Shiva)

  • In INDIA,muslims have to face west to kaba.
    Earth is round. So why dont you face east? Because by that you shall also face to kaba.

  • I would like to take this oppurtunity to put this debate to bed once & for all, to the author of this article let me give you a mind blowing statement, when Islam was first spread during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW the Qibla or direction of prayer for the early muslims was Jerusalem & not Makkah/Mecca. Jerusalem is always known as the first Qibla & is still the 3rd Holiest city in Islam.

    When the Prophet SAW migrated to Medina or Yathrib as it was known then, a huge percentage of the people were in fact Jewish, especially the tribes on the outskirts of the city. When the Holy Prophet SAW tried spreading Islam to the Jews, they scoffed at him because according to them God didn’t give him his own Qibla or direction of prayer i.e. he was using the Jewish Qibla so how could he be worthy of following. This deeply troubled the Prophet SAW so much that God then sent the Archangel Gabriel to enquire the origin of his anguish, to which he obliged by elaborating further.

    Gabriel then returned with this response from God, Gabriel explained to the Prophet SAW that God wants to know from his beloved Prophet SAW, which city in the world of his choice should he make the new Qibla. The Prophet SAW chose Makkah because it was the city of his birth therfore very dear to him & that it was already a holy site because as muslims we believe that the first house of God was built by the Prophet Abraham & his son 5000 years ago, this house of God therefore precedes the temples built by the Jews in Jerusalem by about 2000 years. This is called the Kaaba, which is actually Arabic for the word cube for obvious reasons.

    It was a centre of pilgrimage during the Pre Islamic era because of the founding of the city i.e. the first house of God built by the ancestors of the Arabs, things went pear shaped when the Arabs started worshipping idols, worse still they placed the 300 + idols in the first house of the one true God which were destroyed by the Prophet Muhammad SAW & Maula Ali his cousin.

    Illustrations of what we as people perceive to be the imagery of the divine is strictly prohibited in Islam hence muslims using the Kaaba merely as a symbol of God & not actually believing that the cube to be God himself. In fact my personal belief is that the city of Medina is holier than Makkah/Mecca because it’s the city of the Prophet, there would be no faith to believe had it not been for him. Makkah/Mecca would just be another place on the earth.

    Unity is a faith/nation’s greatest strength also added to the fact that Islam promotes the brotherhood of all men regardless of race, creed or class. Unity would not have been achieved had there been no focal point in Islam hence the pilgrimage & what better symbol than the first house of the one true God the Kaaba. The pilgrimage teaches all muslims that regardless of one’s background we are all equal in the eyes of the Almighty & that we all have to achieve the same set of ideals, basically what I’m saying is that all muslims have to go to the holy land to complete their faith & that includes both Madina & Makkah (A common ground), please highlight that Makkah is not exclusive in fact during the Hajj pilgrims have to go Madina first & then to Makkah.

    This answer thus proves your statement to be baseless & bordering on ridicule, after reading this are people now going to say that the city of Jerusalem is also one big idol, probably the biggest idol of them all!!!

    I’ve always mentioned to all Hindus that the truest form of Hinduism is the Vedic way as preached by the great Islamic scholar Abu Rehan Al Biruni, why criticize Zakir Naik & then stoop to his level. Zakir Naik is another Ahmed Deedat, both had no idea how to spread our beautiful faith, they preached it at the expense of good people’s feelings, they stirred all the wrong emotions like the Christians do. Eventually people hate Islam because of these so called pretenders actions. The only people that embodied what Islam is all about are the Sufis/Gnostics hence they were extremely successful in spreading Islam in India. Saints like Khaje Moinudine Chishti motto were Love all, malice to none. They achieved this by practicing a simple task, service to humanity, regardless of who it was.

    • @Freed Mahomed

      Bro..your message is beautiful, if and only if one ignores the wrongful eulogy of Islam and Taqiyya(lying) therein.

      ◰ The fact of changing the qibla in the prophets lifetime has been already mentioned on this site…which rather proves that this whole hoax of unity of direction is useless babble…

      why don’t you pray in any direction you want ..today! ..”To him belong the east and the west”
      BUT STILL ….WOULD YOU DO THAT? ..NO!..because bending down towards the east is an idolatrous ritual that no momin can overcome.

      In short, i will start believing you if you post your pic praying to Allah towards the west..until then you are as good as the hindu or christian who is bound by rituals.

      ◰ The Kaaba belonged to the pagans until Muhammad came up with his new religion and killed his own kith and kin to regain command of the Kaaba.He ofcourse destroyed all the idols except one and that very stone is kissed till date by all muslims….is this not idol worship than what else.

      WHY DONT YOU GIVE THAT STONE TO THE PAGANS ? ..that way you will get rid of the ‘idolater’ tag and the PAGAN will get at least one of his gods back from your clutches 😉

      BUT AGAIN..you would not do that …because you are trapped exactly like the pagan in believing that there could be house of allah and that kissing/touching that stone is sunnat.

      ◰You mention Al Biruni as a Vedic Scholar….I would say that he indeed was a unique arab in that he had a penchant for learning..Unfortunately he came to India in the wrong period (11th century) when the ghazis were drenching their swords with the blood of hindus and budhists and the vedantins…

      He was no fan of the vedas ..He laughed at the proposition of Sayana that the earth revolves around the sun ..he joked that dumb Hindus believe that earth rotates on it’s own axis…

      having said that, i would say that his is a very comprehensive, though biased, study of the various sects of hinduism prevalent in that period.He documented and tried to get as much information as the priests and public were willing to share…he also honestly documents the dastardardly acts of the ghazis ..like sulatn mahmud etc.

      He reminds us how barbarians can destroy the fabric of a peaceful and prosperous civilization…

      Fareed Sahab…your call for peace and humanity is great ..and i respect you for that..but using it as a shield to defend a violent doctrine like Islam is still impossible..the facts of history and present tell us the true story any which way.

      hoping to hear more from you
      Regards

      • Ok @Indian Agnoustic….

        In this case, why Mohammed has not said, “This is the stone you need to worship”….

        As far as Mohammed is concerned, he uses a staright forward approach and not anyother things….

        If that would be the case, he would have intimated that also….

        Hence the Muslims are not bowing to stone….

    • @Fareed

      The stories of these idols may have been entertaining, but you are still missing the whole point here.

      you said “Illustrations of what we as people perceive to be the imagery of the divine is strictly prohibited in Islam hence muslims using the Kaaba merely as a symbol of God & not actually believing that the cube to be God himself. In fact my personal belief is that the city of Medina is holier than Makkah/Mecca because it’s the city of the Prophet, there would be no faith to believe had it not been for him. Makkah/Mecca would just be another place on the earth.”

      So kaaba is merely a symbol of God, not God himself right?????

      my dear brother, that is the same answers ignorant hindus give when they are questioned to why are they idolators. If a hindu bows before the idol of lets say Shri Krishna, and your walking by and you ask him what is he doing by bowing before a stone idol, he will tell you I am just using this stone as a concentration to pray to the actual God. I agree even hindus are wrong when they bow before idols but the point I am trying to make here is that every idolator has the reason as you, then why you, as a muslim, criticize other idolators???

      As long as anyone and I mean anyone, bows before, to, or towards a tangible monument during his/her prayers for any reasons (direction, concentration, supersticion), that person is classified as an idolator.

      So since you bow towards the kaaba, you are an idolator. If I accept your reason for not being an idolator, then I will have to accept the reasons of ignorant hindus, buddists, jains, christians as well. Now you make the call.

      Brother, why are you refusing to accept that your an idolator when you associate kaaba in your prayers??

    • @Fareed
      “This deeply troubled the Prophet SAW so much that God then sent the Archangel Gabriel to enquire the origin of his anguish, to which he obliged by elaborating further.

      Gabriel then returned with this response from God, Gabriel explained to the Prophet SAW that God wants to know from his beloved Prophet SAW, which city in the world of his choice should he make the new Qibla.”
      Why Allah had to send Gabriel to Muhammad in inquire into the cause of the anguish? Is Allah not all-knowing??????????

  • KHADIJA IS VATICAN SPY AND PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS VATICAN FRANKENSTEIN this was exposed by a Ex Catholic Priest Alberto Rivera in his book “THE PROPHET” this exposure caused a stir in islamic and catholic countries and many of the islamic and catholic countries banned this book in their country and the writer of this book Alberto Rivera was finally MURDERED after many unsuccessful attempts. The author exposes that Vatican wanted holy city of Jerusalem from Jews very badly for that it needed the help of Arabs so Vatican used Khadija, who also was an ex-nun to trap an Arab and use him for their dirty works. Mohammad was chosen for this Khadija convinced Mohammad that AllahNimrodOisirisGod of New Testament are one god and they should unite and fight and eliminate Jews, but later on like Frankenstein Mohammad turned against his Masters the Vatican and Pope. VATICAN IS THE CREATOR OF ISLAM read this website for reference:

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1157986/pg1

      • @gms:

        To me (and for most Hindus) Christianity is just as stupid and evil as Islam. They also, just like you jihadis, believe I am going to hell for not singing praise of Jesus (PBUH?). Funnily they also believe YOU are going to hell for following a false prophet. (They say you are going to hell…you say they are going to hell. Surely, truth can be found only like this, right?) They quote the Bible to say all non-Christians are hell-bound. You guys quote the Quran to say that all non-Muslims are hell-bound.

        May I suggest one thing? Why dont you guys just end up slaughtering each other for being heathens/Kufrs? I hear that that has already started in Egypt/Iraq/parts of Africa. Hopefully the world gets sick and tired of the violence of Islam/Christianity and bans both religions.

      • Namaste gms
        dont know the reality of this claim but want to ask you something based on your logic

        If Allah is creator of Iblis then why Iblis rebelled against Allah?

      • @gms everybody knows that mohammad came to Know about Bible and Torah through Khadeja and definitely Khadeja was christian and definitely in some way she was connected to Pope.

        GMS most surprising is the anti-muslim pope accepted MUSLIM DEITY FATIMA in Portugal and constructed a FATIMA SHRINE IN PORTUGAL so even if the above article is not 100% correct then also Christian hand in creation of islam cannot be denied.

      • To sameer :what evidence do you have to back up you claim?
        At the time Vatican didn’t exist as a organized force.Neither Christianity was interested in conversions.
        If ever they had any hand in creating or helping Islam( which never happened ) Allah will compensate them.Are suggesting that Vatican and Muslims have hatched a conspiracy against other religions?Please give more details of this conspiracy.

      • @sms
        yes, “America is the creator of Bin laden” !! now repeat your question my dear

  • Guys,

    Muslim guys: Discussions are allowed in Islam and not the arguments. A muslim should not speak about or scold any gods or goddess from other religions. This is prohibited in Islam. We as muslims, have the rights to explain them what Islam says. Thats the boundary of Islam. Please dont go beyond this. There should be difference between a muslim and others.

    Others: If you are aware of Islam, please speak. Otherwise, dont spread hatred. If you still speak, please be among the one, who identify and ensure that we people are Muslims now and also in the day of judgement.

    Thanks

  • Why do u hindus go & do namaste b4 ur idols, you do u put kum kum on idols, why do u put flowers on idols?, why do u provide food and fruits to ur idols (does he not have food to eat, since the idol cannot eat, why not give that very same food to needy & alive persons), why do u put on the fan to ur idols in all temples, why do u put pictures of ur 1000s of gods at ur homes, works places, shops, offices etc. why do u bang the bell so loudly when u enter temple (is it to wake ur god up?). why do u give bath to ur idols with milk & water when there are many children are lacking, why when your god does nothing it is being taken to dip in the water to get rid of him or to make the water polluted?. There are many many endless whys to answer.

    • Dear @Person,

      You may well have your reservations against arya samajis , agnostics and atheists 🙁 , but boy! you should hug a Hindu today, for he is not at all different from you as far as worship is concerned.

      you wrote: “Why do u hindus go & do namaste b4 ur idols, you do u put kum kum on idols, why do u put flowers on idols?”
      a hindu would say : why do you turn towards the east towards the HOUSE of Allah, raise your posterior to pray?”

      you wrote:”, why do u provide food and fruits to ur idols (does he not have food to eat, since the idol cannot eat, why not give that very same food to needy & alive persons)”
      a hindu would say: “why do bring up a lamb and kill it in your own house in the name of Allah? does Allah need to drink all that blood to sustain Himself?”

      you wrote:”, why do u put on the fan to ur idols in all temples, why do u put pictures of ur 1000s of gods at ur homes, works places, shops, offices etc.”
      a hindu would say: “why do you have the pictures of mecca and madina in every muslim hotel, why all the calligraphy on the walls ?”

      you wrote:”why do u bang the bell so loudly when u enter temple (is it to wake ur god up?)”
      a hindu would say: “well i do it once in a year..your guy keeps shouting on the loudspeaker 5 times a day ..lo he started again!”

      you write:” why do u give bath to ur idols with milk & water when there are many children are lacking,”
      a hindu would say:”why do you 1/5th of the war booty to Allah? more importantly how did muhammad share the 1/5th of the war booty with Allah..are there any hadit accounts of war booty being shared between Allah and muhammad? Many civilizations would have been saved had not Allah made HALAAL the looting and plundering and enslaving of people.The children who lack these basic amenities in India is thanks to the ghazis who looted this country of it’s wealth and trampled it’s religion and made a person like @Person question his own ancestors faith!”

      you write: “why when your god does nothing it is being taken to dip in the water to get rid of him or to make the water polluted?”
      a hindu would say: “Even Allah did nothing. He is nowhere in the scene and nowhere to be seen, except to Muhammad. just like you pollute the zamzam ..the hindu pollutes the ganagam 😉 Just like the house of Allah needs cleaning every now and then and the floor needs mopping every day ..can’t Allah mop his own house??”

      you wrote: “. There are many many endless whys to answer.”
      AND I WOULD SAY : Bro leave all these religions .Religion itself is the culprit that strangles your human values in some way or the other.The journey to understand the purpose of life is ALWAYS TRAVELED ALONE . Just like the idol, Allah does nothing …in floods muslims die as much as others, fire never stops to check your religion before devouring your persons or property.When the entire creation is impartial …how can the creator of creation be partial ? …come back to your vedic roots ..and shun ALL KINDS OF IDOLATRY

      • lol, agnostic hindu thanx for commenting you are making a fool of yourself, when the animal is sacreificed its distributed to poors. and muslims also put photos of arabic letters thats a way of respecting you must be using vedas as toilet papers but we dont we respect quran. lol i have seen your funny comments, why dont you debate in truthofhinduism.com they dont delete comments like your Satyagni.

    • @Person
      First decide whether you want to debate on hindu-muslim or Vedas and Quran+Hadith. We are vedic followers and dont do idol/kaba worship. We worship One Eeshvar and remember only Eeshvar while Dhyaan, unlike Muslims who are bound to remember Muhammad along with Allah in prayers. Since you think you are not idolaters, I shall give you the reply in your own language.

      Why do u Muslims do Sajda b4 ur Kaba five times a day, why do u put black cloth on your idol Kaba, why have you covered black stone with a silver coating? why do u provide your money to Saudi Arabia government while Hajj, which is already rich due to petrodollar earning, why dont you spend this money to your own poor and needy countrymen, why do u circumambulate around Kaba when it cant even know what is happening around, why do u put pictures of ur Kaba at ur homes, works places, shops, offices etc? why do u give Azaan from the mosques on the loud speaker so loudly when u start Namaaz (is it to wake ur god up?). Why do you sacrifice millions of innocent animals in the name of Allah, the most merciful? There are many many endless whys to answer.

      I think brother both Hindus and Muslims should start believing in One Eeshvar, as mentioned in Vedas, believing in which is sufficient to get bliss and there remains no need to worship any Kaba or idol or remember any messenger in the prayers.

      • @arya lol we don’t give money to saudi, there is only transport tax in saudi unlike india where there is tax for every thing 40% of earnings goes in paying tax, and do you have any information about zakat, so you mean all the muslims of the world comes to mecca to pray namaz, lol and as i said above muslims also put photos of arabic letters of allah thats a way of respecting you must be using vedas as toilet papers but we dont do it, we respect quran, azan is a muslim call to prayer for muslims to come so you mean ishwar comes into th temple when someone bangs it but ishwar is everywhere, oooohh, lol plants also have life you know that and the meat is distributed to the poors and other peoples, and there are many gods in hinduism, if i start asking questions about hindusim you will block me again. why dont you debate truthofhinduism.com team if you have courage.
        @person don’t debate here coz all the hindus will argue with you here and when you defeat them arya will delete your comments and then he will say i won the debate hurray.

      • @yeah me
        I gave the above comment for Muslims and not for Qadiyanis. I know you can not visit Mecca because Qadiyanis are considered worst than pigs by Muslims. You might be giving your money to Qadiyani center of Islam in Qadiyan. Truthofhinduism is a Qadiyani group and they say that they dont believe Hadith to be authentic. So, either ask them to openly accept their Qadiyani background and then have debate on Qadiyani and Vedic Dharm or leave it.

        I know you cant use toilet paper because you use stones (odd in numbers!) for cleaning and this is a Sunnah since Muhammad used to do it! And you might be feeling nice by comparing Vedas with toilet papers, the same Vedas, which have been claimed to contain Muhammad’s name by your new Qadiyani prophet Zakir Naik!

        And there are many last prophets in Qadiyanis like Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. If I ask you about your Qadiyanism, you will start abusing again! And trithofhinduism team is so intelligent that they criticize us for being idolaters even after knowing that we dont believe in idol worship! It is same as if I ask you Qadiyani that why do Muslims worship Kaba and graves!

        Peace!

      • the upanishads and gita is also the word of god according to hinduism but you ppl rejects it, so how can you follow your ishwar and moreover you are afraid of having a debate on quran vs vedas with many muslims,why dont you debate with steve or othr authors of that site why you people are so sacred, just see your mp arya who lost the debate with tariq abdullah you people have posted the edited video to fool people. and that debate was only about islam and if mr. tariq had questioned the vedas then mmp arya would have just run away from there and also see your ravi shankar who lost to dr. zakir naik many of you people are dreaming of zakir naik lol i ve seen many of you people

      • @yeah me
        Muslims consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani as demon but you ppl reject it, so how can you follow your Allah and moreover you are afraid of having debate on Qadiyani vs Vedic Dharm with us, why are you so scared? And before debating us, why dont you debate your Muslim brothers who consider you worse than Kafirs?

      • Arya ji,

        the sunnis say the shias are demons , they all say qadiyyanis are demon..and it goes on and on and on..

        And all this confusion is because no body believed the prophet when he first said to his wife khadija that ..he’s been possessed by the demon !!!!

        they should have nipped it in the bud i guess

  • One more argument –
    If Kaba is only direction then why do muslims hang pictures of it at their home, office or in vehicles?
    It can definitely not point to any direction in a moving car.
    If it is not treated like an idol then can muslims put these pictures on ground and below their feet?
    Pictures of Kaba are respected and treated like idols for all practical purposes by muslims.

    • I can give u a simple logic. Like hindus bow down or worship with different idols in front of them & when they worship, they have in their mind the image of god they worship, like if you worship Rama you will cunj up a mental picture of Rama or bcoz Arun govil acted in Ramayana you will have his picture in ur mind (many had started to worship him and the one acted as sita) in the real life too. I heard there are temples of many film actors/actress also who are worshiped in hindus. This is called shirk. No muslim ever imagine while he/she is praying, that he/she is bowing before or worshiping any idols including Kaaba. We would never have Kaaba in our mind or imaginations while performing salah. We always imagine like we stand before Allah subhana wa tala or if we cannot imagine him bcoz he has no image, we at least imagine that Allah is watching us praying. This is not shirk, we worship only one God that is Allah. U dont understand that bcoz you don’t perform namaaz but u only claim falsely that we bow down to kaaba and we are the idolators, just to put the blame on us for what mistakes you do. If we were to bow down to kaaba, we would have a model of kaaba in every masjid we pray and at homes where our women folks pray or at least we should keep pictures in front of us but this is not the case. Go see any masjid, you will not find even a picture of Kaaba in any masjid. Now have some sense to understand this and do not simply and blindly accuse for what we don’t even imagine.

      • @Person
        Brother, dont you do shirk while worshipping graves? Dont you do Shirk while remembering Muhammad along with Allah during your prayers five times a day? Dont you do Shirk when you say that a person needs to believe in Muhammad in addition to Allah in order to get heaven?

        I have seen pictures of Kaaba in most of the Muslim shops, hotels, and houses. What do you say about that?

        I invite you to the Vedic Dharm in which you dont need to believe in any mediator or idols. Believing in One Eeshvar will be enough!

      • To roger : Vajra found a new idol for Muslims the direction. I’m still awaiting his response about feet ,air and anything b/w Kaaba and site of prayer are also idols.

      • Namaste gms
        Have you read the article you are commenting on? Why do you kiss the Kaba, why circumambulate it? Why inside Kaba no DIRECTION is required to bow to?

        I did not reply because you dont have enough knowledge of Islam neither you understand logic.

        Can you prove logically why idol worship is wrong? And what do you mean by worship? Please give your reply based on logic and not Quran.

        all the best

      • to Vajra:
        Kissing is not an act of worship.If relatives kiss each other they are not worshiping.May mean respect,love or lust.
        To circumambulate and pray towards Kaaba has the same value.If one is idol worshiping then other also is. Since praying towards Kaaba is not idol worshiping then circumambulation also falls in this category.By your logic Muslims(while praying inside the Kaaba) would have to placed a miniature Kaaba inside the Kaaba to pray to!!! Yes Kaaba inside the Kaaba!!! Idol worshipers don’t pray inside their idols this is another proof that Kaaba not a idol.
        But you have not answered whether Muslims are praying to gases,feet of the person in front and all other things in b/w their heads and Kaaba.
        Neither you have replied to the argument that if Kaaba if transferred to any other place (let say to Madina )the qibla will remain the same.Nobody will offer their prayers facing that city. Is this not logical to you?No idol no idol worshiping.
        Why idol worship is wrong? I didn’t reply because is not the topic of the discussion. We can discuss this as a separate topic.
        Picture/painting issue I’m aware that in Islam is forbidden.

      • @gms

        Do not forget all these acts you are doing are during prayers. For example, if someone does not pray but randomly kisses an idol, then it is not idol worship because there is no prayer involved. However, during a PRAYER, if you kiss an idol or go around it in circles, and bow towards it, then you are classified as an idolator.

        How can Kaaba not be an idol? If your mentor Naik can prove a statue, table, chair, car, mandir, mosque to be idols, then how can you not agree??

        Idol is any inanimate object to whom you bow before in your prayers, so yes, the kaaba is an idol, a big idol.

        How about all the muslims that have pictures of kaaba in their rooms at prayer times???

      • @gms Allah in koran and prophet mohammad in sahih hadiths are themselves are telling KABA OR HAJRE ASWAD ARE SYMBOLS AND IDOLS, WORSHIPPING THEM IS NOT SIN SEE BELOW VERSES

        Allah states: “Verily Safa’ and Marwah (Hajre Aswad) are the symbols of Allah. Thus it is not a sin on one who performs the hajj or umrah of the (sacred) house to make tawaf between them. And verily Allah is appreciative and fully cognisant of one who performs good deeds voluntarily.” (Surah Al-Baqarah verse 158)

        @gms Prophet mohammad in Sahih Hadiths like Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari states that Hajre Aswad is an idol see the following verses

        Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: “Verily the Marwah (Hajre Aswad) is the right hand of Allah on earth. Through it, He shakes hands with His devoted servants just as you shake hands with your brother. Anyone who was unable to pledge the bay’at (of allegiance) to Rasullullah(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) and makes istilam (kisses it or touches it) of the Hajre Aswad has indeed pledged the bay’at to Allah and His Rasul.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

        @gms if Kaba or Mecca is only a direction why then in Koran and Sahih Hadiths there are many verses which says anything done in Mecca or Kaba has 1000 time benefits or allah forgives the punishment of his believer in this place.

      • Namaste gms

        ————–Kissing is not an act of worship.If relatives kiss each other they are not worshiping.May mean respect,love or lust.————–

        1. I did not ask what is kissing! I asked why kissing 🙂

        2. Respect, love or lust can be shown only to LIVING entity. Thus if Muslims kiss Kaba idol believing it to be living, this is foolishness of uttermost level. So you are proven to be a fool if you kiss a stone 🙂

        Define what do you mean by worship?

        —————-To circumambulate and pray towards Kaaba has the same value.If one is idol worshiping then other also is. Since praying towards Kaaba is not idol worshiping then circumambulation also falls in this category.—————-

        1. Again I did not ask for resemblance of circumambulation but the reason behind it!

        2. If both have same value, why circumambulation is NECESSARY for a Momin who already bows to Kaba idol 5 times a day?

        3. BTW, catch this one from me- bowing to Kaba idol has same stupidity as bowing to any other stone idol. Since later is idol worship and both fall in same category, bowing to Kaba idol is idol worship 🙂

        —————By your logic Muslims(while praying inside the Kaaba) would have to placed a miniature Kaaba inside the Kaaba to pray to!!! Yes Kaaba inside the Kaaba!!!—————

        1. No. Thats the problem! Muslims dont go by my logic 🙁 They simply cant do that because they are allergic to logic and they follow what Quran and Sunnah teach them.

        2. You should answer logically instead of applying my logic on Islamic traditions and then showing absurdities.

        ————Idol worshipers don’t pray inside their idols this is another proof that Kaaba not a idol.————–

        For me standard idol worshippers are Muslims (just like you have assumed non Muslims as standard idol worshippers), who bow to Kaba idol, kiss it, and circumambulate it. So my stand is that when idol worshippers kiss their idol and circumambulate it but no Hindu does that then how hindus are idol worshippers? It means Hindus are not idol worshippers but Muslims are!

        Could you understand the logic? It was simple. You think of your definition of idol worshipping as standard and I think mine. Now who will decide whose definition is of universal standard?

        —————But you have not answered whether Muslims are praying to gases,feet of the person in front and all other things in b/w their heads and Kaaba.—————

        Who knows? 🙂 Its upto you who has to counter my arguments and not by showing mismatch b/w my logic and your belief because logic and blind belief can never be coherent!

        ————-Neither you have replied to the argument that if Kaaba if transferred to any other place (let say to Madina )the qibla will remain the same.Nobody will offer their prayers facing that city. Is this not logical to you?No idol no idol worshiping.—————-

        No. This is not logical for me. Because you will fight to get back your Kaba idol in Mecca and when you will not get it, you will have no option 🙁 And rather true idol worshippers even worship the place where idol is/was established first and the place itself works as idol if idol is misplaced!

        ————-Why idol worship is wrong? I didn’t reply because is not the topic of the discussion. We can discuss this as a separate topic.————

        Sure! Please do that.

        ————-Picture/painting issue I’m aware that in Islam is forbidden.————-

        You seem to forget what you wrote few days back- “If you hang your picture or picture of the president does it make any of you an idol?”

        Here you were answering Brother Arya that Muslims dont do wrong in keeping pictures in their houses or shops, but now you say that picture/paintings are forbidden in Islam 🙁

        Brother be truthful at least if you cant be logical because on latter you have not much of control but on former you surely have!

      • @ Person

        Taking rounds of graves (Kabar/Dargah) and bow down in front of it, what does it indicate? I hope you know why do Muslims bow down and offer flower chadar in AJMER DARGAH, HAJI-ALI-DARGAH ? If Muslims do not believe in idol worship, then why do many-many Muslims visit these places in a day ?

        You said that you imagine ALLAH is just watching you praying while offering namaz, then why do you tie white kerchief on head or wear a white cap? What is the logic behind that ? Did Allah tell you to do so ? If a namaz from pure heart is offered then Allah has to accept it in any case or any circumstances whether head is covered or not.

        What is the reason for not offering namaz with only standing or squatting down ? Why is a namaz offered by a muslim making many standing up, sitting down and bowing down?

        Accept a DHRAM in which the God/Allah/Eshwar does not require any show off from Human while offering prayer.

        Dhanyawaad

      • can not ur god take a personal form.

        if not then he is not god

        shastra says that one who possess all the opulences in full is God.

        if he lacks the ability of taking a personal form then it means …….. he is missing some Qualities………
        if cannot adopt different colours then how can he be supreme………..
        if he cannot make himself visible in front of ur eyes then he lacks the supreme qualities

        Krishna says in Bhagvat Gita that he personal form and at the same time he is impersonal as well.

        BHAG- opulence
        VAN-one who possess them in full

        My God is Beautiful,famous in all planetary system even lord brahma and shiva would take the dust of his feet

        He has his personal form as Krishna and he is situated in everyones heart as impersonal paramatma… He can take any form by his will

        he can adopt any colour by his will . black , white, pink, yellow…….Any

        He is all knowledgeable he could remember his speaking of Gita to sun god which he spoke millions and billions yeras before he spoke this to arjun..

        READ THIS
        BG 12.2: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

        BG 12.3-4: But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, fixed and immovable — the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth — by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.

        BG 12.5: For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

        BG 12.6-7: But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Pṛthā — for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

        BG 12.8: Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.

        let us take the example of sun .
        sun radiates light in all direction and this light is travelling in all directios in the whole cosmos
        but if a person says that the impersonal light is great then it means he does not know about the great personal son who is the origin of that light .

        PLEASE UNDERSTAND

        REPLY

  • BROTHERS 93% OF THE MUSLIM DO NOT KNOW THAT MASJID AND MINARETS CONTAINS PHALLIC AND SEX SYMBOLISM. Minaret is the symbol of phallic/penis symbol. Then Moon and Star symols in the masjid are symbols of MOON GOD AND STAR symolizes GODDESS VENUS OR SUN GOD. The day muslims keep sabbath is Friday, which pagans Arabs kept for Goddess Venus (Goddess of Lust) Every major Islamic scholar is surprised why Mohammad or his followers choosed this day for Muslim Sabbath Prophet Mohammad must have known this fact very nicely . The COLOR GREEN which is also associated with Goddess of Lust Venus is also Muslims main color . One of the Major reasons SWITZERLAND BANNED MINARETS IS ITS AGGRESSIVE PHALLIC/PENIS SYMBOLOGY.

    See this link below for reference

    http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/42435

    • Perverts are always looking for and comparing with sexual organs.Anything they see or feel is sex organ until proven otherwise.As for crescent,moon,minarets and color green are not Islamic symbols.

  • and the most funny thing is when arya is defeated he just says ”FIRST GO AND GET A LETTER FROM DEOBAND THAT YOU (A QADIYANI) CAN REPRESENT ISLAM” lol i have seen that line many times when arya fails to counter the claims and refutations. so do u really think you have defeated many muslims here. and one more thing here on hindu says is that zakir naik brings fake acharyas, lol he must be not aware of acharyas, i know its common in hindus.

    oxford dictionary- IDOL=A STATUE OR PICTURE OF GOD THAT IS WORSHIPPED. so how kaba is a idol. i’m just wasting my time here argueing with these dorks.

    • @Sami

      An idol doesnt neccesarily have to be a monument of a human. An Idol is any solid object that we can touch and see. For example, some ignorant hindus simply use the “AUM” sign for concentration. So kaaba is an idol, since we can touch and see it.

      IDOL being explicitly image of GOD is ur definition only. According to the Quran, Kaaba is the house of Allah, so it represents Allah’s dwelling.

    • @Sami

      You are not wasting time, here u got opportunity to find truth.

      If Quran is true, it claims Muhammad is Father of all nations. He attain prophet hood at 40. On the moment he attain prophet hood he became father.
      Now,
      1. Is Islam supports marrying their own Children?
      2. If not y muhammad married his own children(after he attain the status of father for whole world)?
      3. If the kissing of stone is followed by muhammad and all muslims are following same, y dont u follow the same and all muslim marry their own clildrens?
      4. If he is not father, how Aisha and other wives are claimed to be Mother for whole world?
      5. If he is father and Islam does not support marrying their children, y Muhammad married 10 of his childrens after he became father?
      6. If the point 5 is true, even rasool doesn’t follow the Quran, y u r asking this world to follow it?

  • @intellectual its waste to argue with these nuts, i hardly got one video on youtube about mahindra pal arya, and there were hardly 50 people attended his lecture, and i ve seen some of the articles of this site and many of the articles are copied from christian missionaries and anti islamic writers and few of them are of mahindra pal, and the articles of this site is already exposed, and i must say mahindra can only fool his illterate followers and you can see all the people who were hearing the lecture were looking like illiterate and poor i’m sure they ve been paid to attend the debate.

    and these hindus cannot defend their religion they just go on asking silly questions the swami dayanand said that human can live on sun. how is the kaba a idol worshipping when there is no statue, and hindus also claim that we ask the kaba, lol.

    @proud to be a kafir are you a product of all kafirs dont you have any name, rehanna,maria and safiya were wives of prophet oh i forgot in hinduism having sex with wife is prohbited but fuking other’s wives and animals are allowed.

    and the authors of truthofhinduism.com are challenging you, if you wanna debate them then just go on, the lallu arya just wanna become famous by debating zakir naik, zakir naik has spoke on this issue that he debates with people who can gather more than 10 thousands of people, and we can see lallu could not even gather 100 people. lallu arya dont even know that bible was sent for the children of israel and quran for whole mankind, if vedas has very good knowledge then why there are 4 vedas and only rigveda has more than 20 thousands of verses in which there are no scienctific facts, and these hindus pretend vedas to be knowledge, there is far good philosophy in quran than the vedas so how is the vedas the word of god.

    and i dont know why these people are after zakir naik, maybe he exposes them. you hindus cannot refute any claim coz its undefendable and coz of your lack of knowledge.

    and arya says all the muslims who have argued here have been defeated lol, and i have often seen many people complaining that arya deletes the comments, so why do you delete the comment, and go and see your other articles one muslim alone has defeated your 5 hindus, mostly more than 3 hindus comment on one muslim, so how can you defeat a muslim when your group cannnot defeat one muslim. and the hindus who argue in truthofhinduism.com just starts some silly arguements and when he is exposed he stops commenting. all the muslims have seen your so called refutations of our claims and your so called powerful claims and you use some other verses and cannot even spell the verses so you think you defeat us, ok you can say that for your personnal satisfaction.

    • @Sami

      yes, u say its a waste of time arguing with us because u know very well u cannot refute our claims, so u choose to run away from the truth.

      kaaba is pure idol worship, so this makes muslims like u as hypocrites. Hindus have the daring to throw their idols in water, can u muslims do the same?? This proves that muslims are greater idolators than hindus.

      U claim Quran has science in Quran, ok lets see the science in Quran>>>

      -earth is flat and mecca is the center of the earth (another joke to laugh at)
      -rain falls from the sky (wow, did allah find that out just now????)

      U claim Quran to have better philosophy than Vedas, lets see>>>>

      -Quran allows one to have sex with slaves, kills kafirs, having multiple wives, getting 72 hookers in heaven, getting little kids in heaven as well for gay muslim men, wow what kind of a philosophy is that??

      mohammad’s miracles (all jokes)

      As far as Zakir Naik goes, he has been banned in UK and Canada, and he deserved it. He has copied everything from a Qadiyani source, so hence he is a Qadiyani who relies on terrorist funds.

      We have already exposed him on this site, and will continue to do so in the near future. How good is ur islam, one can see in this site and on faithfreedom.org

      Now zakir naik is ur last prophet, forget mohammad, its zakir naik, and now we wil expose ur prophet brutally. UK and Canada already banned him, soon the entire world will.

      Oh ya, check out the book called Rangeela Rasool of ur prophet.

      • ”earth is flat and mecca is the center of the earth (another joke to laugh at)”

        earth is not flat and where is the source, if you are walking straight does that mean you will goto space as earth is round, the ships uses compass to know the direction does that mean eath is flat

        ”-rain falls from the sky (wow, did allah find that out just now????)”

        wow advancement of science in hindus, so you mean rain falls from ground, if im not wrong then rain cannot fall as its coming from ground according to hinduism, everyone knows except for hindus that rain falls from sky atmostphere and its mentioned in quran

        ”-Quran allows one to have sex with slaves, kills kafirs, having multiple wives, getting 72 hookers in heaven, getting little kids in heaven as well for gay muslim men, wow what kind of a philosophy is that??”

        caught with one lie, so could you plz show me one quranic verse which talks about 72 virgins, killing kafir is haram, the verses you are talking about were revealed during the war with the kafirs, and sex with slave is banned but your vedas encourageous sex with slaves.

        i know you people copies from faithfreedom.org and he is scared to debate examinethetruth.com and also to zakir naik in a public debate.
        and his claims are already refuted and he does not respond when he is defeated http://www.muslim-responses.com/faithfreedom_org_http://www.answering-christianity.com/faithfreedom_rebut...

        and http://www.answering-christianity.com/womanizer.htm

        what about your horny homosexual animal fuking gods truthofhinduism.com/category/porn/

        now you have been caught with lies thats why i said arguing with you nuts is waste of time, even some amateur christians are better than your scholars in debating, so get some knowledge first

      • @sami

        Quran talks of earth being spread out like a carpet implying it is flat, and moreover there is no verse that explicitly says that earth is spherical.

        The first scholar, to tell everyone the dimensions of earth was a prof from Saudi Arabia, and he said according to the Quran, earth is flat and if anyone doesnt believe it, they will burn in hell. Now, after scientific discovery, idiots like u twist verses from the Quran to make it look like if Quran shows earth to be spherical. Only Vedas state that earth revolves around the sun. Bible and Quran do not mention this at all.

        Of course rain falls from the sky, but ur stupid zakir naik calls this a scientific fact of the Quran, how is it a scientific fact??? It is common sense, why did allah need to mention it in Quran, when any baby can easily observe and tell u that rain falls from the sky.

        Moreover, NASA has proven Quran to be false such as universe folding down.

        There are many verses that talk about virgins in heaven in Quran, why dont u google search “virgins in heaven Quran” I am sure u will find many answers.

        As far as sex slaves goes, go read 33.50 and 23.06 they talk about sex slaves clearly. This means one can enslave any woman and have sex with her. The deeds of ur prophet are evident to the world, I dont think i need to elaborate on that.

        Show me a single verse in Vedas that encourage sex with slaves????

        all those gods u are talking about are fake inventions by ignorant hindus. Vedas do not sanction such garbage. That site u told me also uses Puranas and other scriptures apart from Vedas as authentic, but we only consider Vedas to be authentic.

        Ali sina challenged ur coward zakir naik to debate him online but zakir ran away. And ali turned down public debate offer cuz he was scared of getting killed by muslim terrorists, after all, zakir naik promotes terrrorism.

  • How many lies will you people utter to hide your own shortcomings? No Muslims WORSHIPS the Kaaba. No Muslim supplicates and asks help from the Kaaba. No Muslim glorifies the Kaaba, bows TO the Kaaba. We bow TOWARDS the Kaaba not TO the Kaaba.

    You said : “All Mecca dwellers were butchered by Muhammad’s army”

    This is an outright lie exposing you and your website as dishonest. Zakir Naik NEVER said Muhammad 60,000 people of Mecca. He said DEFEATED. You are deaf people.

    We face in THE DIRECTION of the Kaaba because God directs us to do so. How in the world does it prove Idol worship?

    Here is a question for Satyagni. How many times in our daily prayer do we mention the word Kaaba??

    Kissing is Idol worship?? I think vegetarianism is really making the senses of Arya Samj people suppressed like the plants they eat.

    Lastly Swami Dayanand Saraswat say in the preface to Satyarth Prakash, which you seems to have forgotten

    “There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense of a passage, viz:-
    5. Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or the author.
    6. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For instance, when it is said “water irrigates” there is nothing absurd in the mutual connection between the objects signified by the words.
    7. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper sequence, i.e., without detaching them from their context.
    8. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a writer or a speaker which he intended that they should convey..

    There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-headedness, misconstrue the meaning of the author. The sectaries are the greatest sinners in this respect because their intellect is wrapped by bigotry.”

    So why are you being a bigot by giving a meaning to our facing the Kaaba, which we do not give? Swamiji according to his own principle was bigot and you obviously being his blind follower are a like bigot.

    The Quran says,

    “Let them worship the Lord of this House, Who has fed them, [saving them] from hunger and made them safe, [saving them] from fear.” [Surah Quraish 106:3-4]

    • @The intellectual
      You missed whole point of the discussion. This article is for those who follow Zakir Naik and his every stupid so called logic. If you think that above arguments of Zakir Naik are not right then instead of writing anything here, you should first debate with IRF on this issue. If the above arguments of Zakir Naik are not as per Islamic scriptures then you should take some action against him so that he does not mock Islam by his stupid logic anymore. You call the above arguments of Zakir as his opinion and our analysis as lies! Why dont you accept our arguments as yet another views instead of lies?

      Dont you think you should blame Zakir for this article more than us? What makes you so angry about this article? If Zakir’s arguments are anti Islamic then this article is a rebuttal to anti Islamic ideology! How does it hurt you?

      • Dr. Zakir gave a reply from his own perspective. But you are mentioning lies here.

        You said : “All Mecca dwellers were butchered by Muhammad’s army”

        This is an outright lie exposing you and your website as dishonest. Zakir Naik NEVER said Muhammad 60,000 people of Mecca. He said DEFEATED. You are deaf people.

        In fact Prophet Muhammad granted general amnesty to the dwellers of Mecca, which surprised them.
        Good to see you have not responded to my rebuttal. This is sufficient. Now u must remove this article immediately.

      • @The intellectual
        Zakir Naik gives the proof from Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 21 verse no 9, which literally means that 60000 plus enemies and their 20 kings were crushed under the chariots! According to Zakir, it Was Muhammad, who crushed his enemies, who were 60000 in numbers (which was the population of Mecca at that time!) under his chariot! Now decide yourself, who is lying We or Zakir? If Zakir is true, Muhammad killed whole population of Mecca as per Mantra and thus he was a mass murderer! If Zakir is lying then why dont you say him a liar and ask him for his apology?

        I asked you that if you think Zakir’s arguments as anti Islamic then why did not you refute him in first place? And if you did not refute him for his lies, why are you so eager to condemn us for replying him? Should not you thank us for debunking the lies of “anti Islamic” Zakir Naik?

        If I name Zakir’s Islam as Zakirism then we refuted Zakirism and not your version of Islam! So why are you trying to give rebuttal to our anti Zakirism article on the basis of your version of Islam? It is similar to a Muslim giving rebuttal to our articles on Christianity by saying that Quran does not say so!

      • I’m sorry but you have mistranslated the verses. The correct translation is that the enemy was encompassed and beseiged and not crushed or killed. The original word is अवृणक meaning encompass,surround. The second proof that you are mistranslating it is that the same mantras also occur in Rig Ved 1.53.9 and there Swami Dayanand has done totally different translation of the EXACTLY same mantra. Your translations are unreliable.

        Anyway, my objection was to your saying that Kaaba is Idol. It is very mischievious of you to say you are attacking Zakir Naik, but the same argument was made by Swami Dayanand in Satyarth Prakash, and there was no Zakir Naik at that time. So if you are honest, you will remove this incorrect article.

      • @Intellectual

        brother, I am happy to see that you have accepted the fact that kaaba is an idol. Now, bowing down to an idol is called idolatry, hence all muslims are idolators as long as they bow before the kaaba, the only way u can say ur not an idolator is by not associating kaaba in ur prayers, tell me can u do that??? Cant u worship allah without idols?????

      • @intellectual: now mulla will teach that at is right sanskrit translation.. what the shit.. is that.. “intlectual”. u must slap on ur face. or apologize for ur stupidity.. it not zakir site where u will see totalyy missquoted verse n childish aricle..without any authentic proofs, ur brothers doing in their childish welsites. now a days

        its better to learn well than being smart which are not.. and about the honesty word. its not sound good from a zakir followers..

      • Well if you feel that a simple bowing towards the Kaaba is an act of worship and therefore kaaba an idol then you are lying because:
        1- The vast majority of Muslims never went to mecca.How they become idol worshipers?
        2- Most of them pray in the mosques and they bow to the feet of the person in front .And I have seen many doing just that to my feet.Now explain to me : am I an idol or just my feet qualifies for that distinction?(feet worshipers)
        3- Sometimes there is an empty space between the feet and the head of the person behind.Does air or gas qualifies to be an idol?If yes then they are gas worshipers.
        4- From where I am to Kaaba there are millions of creatures ,objects ,rivers may even some of your own idols.Are my prayers directed to all this?
        Here some proofs showing that Kaaba is a direction and not an idol.
        1-There are no pictures of any type of reproduction of Kaaba in any mosque of the wold .
        2-If Kaaba is destroyed (as has happened in the past)or is moved to any other place the direction of qibla will remain the same.
        3-Qibla was changed during a prayer and this didn’t change the form or the conduct of prayer.I mean the change in purported idols would have reflected in the prayers.
        4-Until the liberation of Mecca ,Kaaba was full of Idols.Are you of the opinion that the Muslims were praying to those idols?
        5- If the direction of Kaaba is not known prayer in any direction is accepted.Muslim don’t manufacture a picture of Kaaba and pray to it.
        6-Muslims while traveling take a compass to work out the direction.If kaaba was an idol then they would carry a picture of Kaaba.

      • gms
        If bowing to an idol is idol worship then bowing to the direction is direction worship, still Shirk 🙁

        ——-1- The vast majority of Muslims never went to mecca.How they become idol worshipers?———-

        Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam which is Fard for every Muslim who can afford it. Hajj gives Savaab to a Momin. Thus Kaba worship is must in Islam!

        ———-Qibla was changed during a prayer and this didn’t change the form or the conduct of prayer.I mean the change in purported idols would have reflected in the prayers.———–

        Why was Qibla changed in first place? What was wrong with the old Qibla other than that non Muslims also had the same Qibla?

        ———–Until the liberation of Mecca ,Kaaba was full of Idols.Are you of the opinion that the Muslims were praying to those idols?————

        No, Muslims only worshipped Kaba because they had to maintain some difference from Pagans

        ————-If the direction of Kaaba is not known prayer in any direction is accepted. Muslim don’t manufacture a picture of Kaaba and pray to it.————–

        Even if direction of Kaba is known, what is wrong in choosing any direction of my choice, other than that Allah has forbidden it? Muslims dont need to manufacture more idols, only Kaba idol is enough.

        ———-Muslims while traveling take a compass to work out the direction.If kaaba was an idol then they would carry a picture of Kaaba.———–

        If someone becomes idol worshipper because he can not worship without idol, Muslims are proven to be direction worshippers as they can not pray without direction 🙁

        Do you know what is wrong with idol worship other than that it is written in some book?

      • Finally you realize that accusing Muslims of idol worshiping is not sustainable,now you invented a new accusation ,that of direction worship.Well praying to Allah in direction of Kaaba is not shirk.
        Muslims can pray to God without direction if that is not known as I said,avoid repetition!!
        Well the best definition of the Muslim faith (according to your thought process is that they are gas worshipers because for them to pray to Kaaba they need to extract all the air from the world.Even then they will not be able to worship it because all the other obstructions).
        Why don”t you get some direction?You would perform so much better!

      • gms
        Any logic?

        —————Why don”t you get some direction?You would perform so much better!————

        I dont need physical direction to pray non physical Eeshvar/Allah! BTW if you mean intellectual direction, I already have 😉

      • Dear Brother Intellectual!

        1. It is motivating for all of us to find your love for Swami Dayanand and his translation. May you, Zakir Naik and everyone else see the Vedas in this manner and get rid of fanaticism.

        2. We were only giving translation of the mantra from Atharvaveda as provided by Zakir Naik himself. (Actually he also simply copied from Qadiyani book by Maulana Haq and forgot to check himself what he was copying). So if you have any objections, kindly direct it to Zakir Naik and not us. For us, the mantra has a completely different meaning.

        3. Thanks for pointing out that the word is Avrinak. The only problem is that this does not mean ‘surround’. I do not know which angel came with revelation of the meaning of this word to your mentor, but even if it came, it must be inspired by Satan.

        By the way, kindly refer Dhatupath Chapter 10 Churadigana, Dhatu No 364 : Vrana Gaatravichoornane meaning to crush very powerfully into powder.

        4. The argument is simple: Zakir uses this mantra to prove Muhammad in Vedas. We do not believe in his crap logic copied from Qadiyanis. But if Zakir is to be believed, the mantra means ‘ 60,900 people were crushed under wheels of chariots’. No, we don’t believe Muhammad to be such a perpetrator of genocide. We consider him to be a saintly simple person. But Zakir wants to make a murderer out of Muhammad simply to gain personal cheap publicity.

        Finally, we would be glad to remove not only this but all articles relating to Zakir version of Islam on this site. But we have two conditions:

        a. Zakir Naik immediately removes all articles on Hinduism or Vedas from his site, apologises for his blunders and issues an appeal that all his articles were misleading and hence should not be used by anyone. Further he should offer himself to be penalized as per Shariat for copied without permission from Qadiyani books.

        b. Zakir Naik clears the test of secularism mentioned on our site and declares that even non-Muslims can go to heaven if they are good people regardless of whether they believe in Quran/ Muhammad/ Allah or not. Please read http://Satyagni.com/test-of-secularism/ for details.

        Thanks
        Angira
        Satyagni Team

      • Your arrogance is manifest. This article is simply inspired by the stupid objections of Swami Dayananad in Satyrath Prakash. There was no zakir naik at that time when he raised these objections.

        2. I proved to u that Kaaba is not idol and no muslim worships the Kaaba so this article of yours is false and you are promoters of falsehood.

        3. You r translations are dubious. IN rigveda Swami dayanand translates this same word Avrinak as नित्य दुखों से अलग करते व दुष्टों को दूर करते हो . There is no mention of crushing or killing or powder. So either he is lying or u r lying.

        Rest this site is stupid third rate fascist right wing hindu fanatic site.

        Your own Swami Dayanand does not clear the test of secularism coz he himself says in Satyarth Prakash that the ONLY true path is that of Vedas. Follow it otherwise you will be sunk in misery. He calls non believers in Vedas as evil. What about Swami Dayananad saraswati’s lies. According to Hindu punishment his tongue must be cut and boiling oil poured down his throat.

      • @Intellectual

        brother, I challenge u to prove to me that kaaba is not an idol???? Any physical monument that u bow before is an idol. U are equally responsible for being an idolator as ignorant hindus and other jains or budds. The only difference is that they use it for concentration and u use it for direction, hence both of u use idols for prayers, hence both of u are idolators. If u claim urself not to be an idolator, then try worshipping Allah without facing the kaaba or ever facing it, can u do it?? If u cant, then u r an idolator, if u can, than ur not. If muslims like u call urself a non idolator, then every ignorant hindu, or christian or jain or budd is also a non idolator according to ur logic.

        Brother, go on, prove to me that ur not an idolator logically???

      • I already did prove so. read my posts above. We bow TOWARDS the Kaaba not TO the Kaaba. The Quran tells me that directions do not matter and but for uniformity we pray facing the Kaaba as God commanded us to.

        You are a bigot as per the rule of Swami Dayanand. In the preface to Satyarth Prakash, which you seems to have forgotten, on page 7 he says

        “There are four elements necessary to convey a complete sense of a passage, viz:-
        5. Akankasha consists in entering the spirit of the speaker or the author.
        6. Yogyata in the fitness of compatability of sense. For instance, when it is said “water irrigates” there is nothing absurd in the mutual connection between the objects signified by the words.
        7. Asatti consists in regarding or speaking words in proper sequence, i.e., without detaching them from their context.
        8. Tatparya is to give the same meaning to the words of a writer or a speaker which he intended that they should convey..

        There are many people who, through bigotry and wrong-headedness, misconstrue the meaning of the author. The sectaries are the greatest sinners in this respect because their intellect is wrapped by bigotry.”

        So why are you being a bigot by giving a meaning to our facing the Kaaba, which we do not give?

        We never mention the word Kaaba anywhere in our prayer. It is a direction symbolic of the fact that we adhere to the same religion of Abraham, an not something which was invented by Prophet Muhammad.

        rest if u cannot understand this then u r a fool. I cannot help it.

      • @Intellectual

        brother, every hindu or budd who worships an idol, says the same thing, that he is not bowing to the idol, he is bowing towards it to the real GOD. So brother u have basically said the same thing.

        Idolator is anyone who uses an idol to worship GOD. Now, u admit that u bow TOWARDS the idol, and accept it or not, that makes u an idolator. I do not see anything new in ur argument, why dont u accept the fact that u are an idolator????

        Ok, suppose I tell u to go break down the kaaba to prove to me that ur not an idolator, will u???? Hindus can throw their idols in the water, but muslims cannot even scratch the kaaba, so doesnt that make muslims greater idolators????

      • Excellent article from Satyagni. It is wonderful to have healthy debates and discussions. I follow the Hindu way of life,and I love it.Hinduism is NOT a relegion,but a way of life.Meaning,being good,doing good,saying good things and not hurting animals,plants and humans.
        Unfortunately,like in many other relegious practices where one can find fanatics or extremists,in Hinduism,there are many ritualistic followers,or the so called ignorant.
        True Hinduism is about intelligence,in that it allows logical thinking and tolerance.The believers of true Hinduism will never convert,as they understand exactly what they follow.It is only the weak and ignorant who will easily convert,because they are the ones who don’t understand meditation,yoga,basic principles of life,but,rather they follow rituals that put fear in them and therefore they are targeted by the extremists of other relegions,namely Islam and Christianity.
        I think,the Hindu writers of this webpage,should stick with logic,like the original article on the Kaba,and not get carried away when their patience and tolerance is tested by the likes of “intellectual”.It is very evident when someone fights so hard to prove their relegion is the best,then they are not intelligent.Why waste your time and effort,rather post logical responses.
        How and where a person of a certain relegious following prays,is their choice or their fear.Remember every relegion was created by MAN,noboby can claim to have seen GOD,HEAVEN or HELL. Over the years these relegions have been indoctrinating their followers.They have been brainwashed to such an extent that they know no better.We cannot blame the poor people,but rather their ‘teachers’ of relegion.Why do you think people are made to fear the unknown-heaven and hell.Its so that they may lead a life of total control on earth.We all trust that there is a GOD,and yes we use idols to help us focus on a ‘beautiful’GOD,so that energies may pass through and back to us.Hinduism,though has never said that if we don’t pray to an idol that we are doomed,in fact I don’t pray to an idol everyday.I pray to the SUN,the giver if light,energy,life.Actually my parents are my GODS,I am grateful to them for giving me life,for nurturing me,for educating me,getting me married and still being there for me.Hinduism teaches you that,MATA,PITA,GURU,DEVA- Mother,Father,Teacher,God. If all the fanatics start to see the logic in this,they might change their thinking and become better Christians,better Muslims and better Hindus.Thanks

      • dont u bow front of quran…..
        dont u

        it means u have no respect to the words of quran.

        the holy uran is non different than the lord himself.

        one must bow down to his scriptures.they are direct words of god. they are on the same platform as the god is. the scriptures and god are are non different. the holy scriptures are worship -able.

        One who dont believe that quran is allah itself then he his a fool.

        great cheater as well.

        any thing in relation with god is worshipable.

        the spiritual master is worshipable. it means one must bow down in fron t of prophet mohammad if he has respect towards him.

        if you cannot do so. then u r fools..

        the spiritual master is going to take u to the gods abode he is very dear and pleasing to god he must be given respect and one must glorify him by worshiping him.

        you look everything is made by god ….

        everything

      • talking with u is useless coz u are a person with retarded intellect. We never say we worship God THROUGH the Kaaba as the idol worshipers say. Kaaba has been dismantled and rebuilt several times in history and Kaaba was never worshiped by even the idol worshipers of Mecca. So your bigoted mindset is causing u to think so. We do not unnecessarily destroy the Kaaba. Who the hell are u to give us dictates?

        Vik u have to answer a lot of my previous questions and so u r simply a non entity here. You have never read the Vedas, never read the Satyarth Prakash,never read the Quran. You are a materialist person who has his pastime job to bash Islam and so you are not worthy to be talked to.

      • @Intellectual

        Ok, mr. intellectual, u are caught in ur own trap here, if u say that u dont worship Allah through kaaba, then u are commiting an islamic sin called Shirk. This means u bow down before kaaba besides allah. Even if u bow down for unity of prayers, its still bowing down. I dont look at why or how u bow down, all I look at that u bow down. And when u bow down, to an idol for whatever reason, that makes u an idolator. And if u bow down in order to pray to Allah, then ur an idolator.

        So why is Allah making u commit shirk, when he strongly condemns it in Quran??

        I am a follower of truth, that is why I am dictating to u, to break to kaaba, and stop this idolatry. If someone like ur prophet can make his own laws, why cant I????

        U dont want to talk to me because u know very well u cannot refute my arguments on kaaba and idol worship. I challenge u, or any muslim scholar on earth to prove to me that kaaba is not idol worship. So far, I am giving u counter replies to ur arguments, and when u cant answer them, u make excuses saying I am not worthy or I have limited intellectual.

        I have answered all your questions in ur mails. I told u before and I am telling u again, that when u get translations from Arya Samaj sites, u have the right or correct translations, but u interpret them wrongly, and not following Swami Ji’s analogy

      • I think you need to go and get some mental check up.

        You wrote: “if u say that u dont worship Allah through kaaba, then u are commiting an islamic sin called Shirk. ” lol what was that?

        Hey baby take some rest.

      • @Intellectual

        brother, I am always resting, its u who need to sit down and relax and realize what ur saying. Why are u bowing towards kaaba, when u should bow towards Allah??? If Allah told u that u should only bow to him then why is he telling u to bow towards an idol like kaaba, why is he making ur bowing take place somewhere else besides him, is he not making u do shirk in the first place???? Brother, please wake up and reject this stupidity of islam that is fully contradictory. All those idolators muslims like u consider have the same reasons as u, yet u criticize them without looking at urselves??

      • @Intellectual

        Thanks for pointing out my mistake and I apologize for being a bit unclear. All I am trying to say that muslims are in the same boat of idolatry as hindus, budd, christians. Kaaba is an idol and muslims bow towards it regardless of any reason (direction/concentration), and that is classified as idol worship.

      • 1. The reference to Atharvaveda mantra was given from article of Zakir Naik where he quotes it to prove Muhammad in vedas. Kindly review http://Satyagni.com/prophet-vedas/

        I have only given literal translation as provided by Zakir Naik himself.

        2. Earlier you gave another meaning of Avrinak (encompass, surround) and now another (take away)! I suggest you should have first read what Zakir said, then translation of Dayanand and then asked your mentor to explain the actual meaning.

        Dayanand is correct in his meaning because Avrinak used in his context means Dukh (miseries) are eradicated by crushing them away. But ask Zakir why he did not use this meaning and instead took fraud meaning from Qadiyani texts to prove Muhammad in same mantra.

        3. You have proved nothing. You have only made some comments which have no coherent logic. I recall and anecdote (not sure if it actually happened) that when Einstein gave his Theory of Relativity, some lover of Bible abused him for being a Jew conspirator. Einstein did not reply. Next day, the Bible lover propagated everywhere that I have proved TOR wrong!

        4. This article in inspired by recent nuisance propagated by Zakir Naik. Since he does not have much intellect and only copies from others works and mugs up, he must have also inherited through generations of intelligent ustaad-chela parampara. So the arguments may have been prevalent even 200 years ago. In any case, we do not consider Zakir Naik to be logical enough to even frame such arguments.

        5. If you indeed consider Hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim to be weak or doubtful, why don’t you first force Deoband to apologize for issuing a fatwa that those who doubt Hadiths are doing major Kufra.

        Why don’t you ask Zakir Naik to repeal all his lectures and articles on this subject as well as those on Vedas where he uses wrong translations?

        6. Swami Dayanand never said that those who refuse to follow Vedas will go to Hell. He simply said that Vedas are ultimate texts and to understand that one should follow path of honesty. The religion of Vedas, as provided by Swami Dayanand has been summarized in http://Satyagni.com/vedic-religion/

        Tell us what is wrong there? And can anyone who does not follow this live without misery?

        7. If this is indeed a stupid third rate fascist right wing hindu fanatic site, why are you taking it so seriously. Kindly ignore it like millions of other sites on the web where you don’t keep abusing them.

        But we understand that your frustration is simply because only you are enlightened enough to understand that this is a stupid third rate fascist right wing hindu fanatic site.

        8. Finally Dayanand is no more living. But does Zakir say that Shariat should be followed only when Dayanand would have followed it 125 years ago as per my or Intellectual’s judgment?

        Does Shariat permit this excuse? I proved that Zakir Naik copied word by word from a Qadiyani book without permission and propagated views which are as per Qadiyani ideology and against other schools of Islam. And you proved that he used wrong translations of Vedas in process. And he himself says that Shariat is best law. So will this excuse hold that a thief should not be penalized for stealing because another person was not punished 125 years in a Kafir country though we think he was a thief!

        If that be case, kindly first fight with Saudi Arabia and other Shariat countries to stop implementing Shariat because it is not being applied in Kafir countries!

        9. Finally, have peace. Be clear
        – do you consider hadiths to be fully perfect? If no, first fight with Darul Uloom and other schools of Islam before abusing Satyagni.
        – do you think we are debating personal opinion of Zakir naik? If yes, first have Zakir punished for his misleading opinions.
        – do you think we misquoted Vedas. If yes, since we took from Zakir’s article, have him punished first
        – do you think shariat is best law? If yes, have Zakir punished for plagiarizing from Qadiyani books without permission
        – do you think Qadiyanis are true Muslims? If yes, declare that all sects of islam who condemn Mirza Ghulam and Qadiyanis will go to Hell. If no, ask Zakir first why he uses Qadiyani material word by word to promote Qadiyani ideology and have him punished under Shariat.

        Since we come outside purview of Shariat and Islamic Laws, at best you can ignore the deeds of kafirs whose hearts have been sealed by Allah himself and frozen in Lohe Mehfooz.

        Your energies are best utilized in fighting fanatic forces like Zakir Naik who are misleading masses rather than glamorizing them on your website.

        May peace be upon you!
        Angira

      • You are jumping from one topic to another. This is typical Arya Samaj tactic. Throw 1000 arrows at least few will hit. Why bring Hadith accounts here? I did not even touch it.

        1. I have read what Zaik Naik wrote and he used the word DEFEATED not killed as you have lied in ur article.

        2. there is no explanation for the question that y Swami Dayanand has has translated RigVed 1.53 in a different way although Kuntap Sukt of Atharva Ved is exact copy of RigVed 1.53 . This prove that either you have mistranslated or Swami Dayanand.

        3. I have showed you the face of your shameless lies that Kaaba is an Idol. You will never agree with me because how will your lying site survive. But let the readers decide. Move on

        4. I am not responsible for what Dr. Zakir Naik claims. However, that does not mean you start lying shamlessly about Islamic Tawheed

        5. I never said hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are doubtful or weak. Seems u r dreaming. Hadith are sayings, actinos and approvals of the Prophet Muhammad. They were narrated down the ages. However, many hadiths were fabricated in certain times. But we have whole science of Hadith to sift the true from the false on the basis of Asma Ar Rijaal. Those who reject Hadith are not Muslims. When a hadith that has been examined makes a Hadith scholar satisfied that it is correct in the highest degree possible then there is no doubt about it. But this is a different topic all together. I do not know why u raise it here.

        6. How can Swami Dayanand say that those who refuse Vedas will go to hel when he does not believe in hell? When he says will sink in misery it means that he will be born as a lower caste or species in the next birth.

        Q. – Are then the teachings of the Dadupanthee true?
        A. ~ The only true path is that of the Vedas. Follow it if you can otherwise you will always be sunk in ignorance and misery.

        When the only true path is that of Vedas it is implied that the rest are false and falsehood leads to damnation not emancipation. So he has proved himself unreliable by his own standard.

        7. rest of ur points do not merit a response.

      • 1. Zakir used word defeated but the mantra clearly defines this defeat by crushing under wheels of chariots. Zakir proved that Muhammad had chariots of camel and that 60,900 people were crushed under the wheels of chariots as per the mantra. As I said, Avrinak means ‘to be crushed powerfully into powder’. So if Muhammad is proven in the mantra, chariot is proven, Mecca is proven, wheels are proven, why shy from ‘crushing’ when this word is more clearly present than name of Mecca or Muhammad!

        Either accept that the entire translation of Zakir is fraud (which is what we believe) or accept that Zakir wants to prove Muhammad worse than Hitler.

        2. Wherever you are trapped, you seek refuge in Dayanand, else you go to Qadiyani translations! Had Zakir Naik based all his articles on Dayanand’s translations, he would not have written all that crap and even Satyagni would not have to write to combat this crap.

        3. If Kaaba is not idol worship, same holds for Hindu worship method. In that case admit that all the criticism and force used against Hindu worship by fanatics claiming to be Muslim is also baseless. All we have proved is that if Zakir and his predecessors/ compatriots consider that Hindus do idol worship, then Kaba worship would be even more intense form of idol worship.

        If however Zakir Naik admits that he and all like-minded Muslims were wrong in claiming that Hindus do Idol worship and not Muslims, we would be glad to remove this article.

        4. As we said clearly, we are countering Zakir version of Islam and those perverts who claim that Muslims are non-idol worshippers but Hindus are idol worshippers. If you do not believe so, kindly express that and ignore the article.

        By the way you promote Zakir Naik in your website.

        5. We have predominantly used only Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim for references. If some of them are fabricated or weak, kindly let Darul Uloom etc clarify that. Let them state that their fatwa is applicable only for truly Sahih Hadiths in ‘Sahih Bukhari’ and ‘Sahih Muslim’. Let they come with their list of Sahih Hadiths and then we shall only use them for analysis.

        6. No, Swami Dayanand does not believe in caste system. Yes, path of Vedas alone is true. But kindly read ‘Vedic religion in brief’ article to know what vedic path is. It is not a set of blind beliefs or practices that are mandatory. It is simply good virtues like non-violence, cooperation etc that need to be inculcated. Kindly tell us which teaching of Vedic religion you find objectionable.

        In general, hardly any point of yours merits response, if only you were the target of these posts. We however use your arguments to address masses and progressive Muslims in general.

        Finally, we await your views on how Shariat should be applied on Zakir Naik now that he has been proven to have copied without permission from Qadiyani books? And will you vow to never refer him on your website?

        Blessings

      • @intellectual
        I am proud to be a third rate fascist hindu fanatic, what you gonna do? Fight a jihad? TRY me coward. I will send you and your entire kaum to hellfire.

        Jai shri ram

      • MohaMAD gave amnesty to Meccans ? All lies, show us the hadith. How about Bani Quraija massacre where he ordered the murder of about 800 jewish men, women & children ?

        He was the one who ordered the murder of a women suckling a child, just because of rumors that she criticized him. Such a compassionate poor fellow !!

  • Excuse me while I take a break from my oppression and raping to respond to this blog as a whole and then later this specific post.

    I’ve been reading a number of articles and comments on here with an objective eye but find them emotionally driven and missing basic understanding not only of Islamic principles beyond what is discussed on hate sites, but of logic as well. Many of the arguments in this blog are primarily based upon someone’s opinion, whether the author’s, or a popular Muslim figure as if said figure is the Prophet (saaws), or some other source which includes hadith many of which have a single narration and so are not 100% proof of anything (to explain for the daft: you cannot quote a disputed source and claim it proves anything just because it would make your argument convenient. It doesn’t matter what some modern scholar or others scholars think because that’s merely opinion and they are not clergy who speak for God). There are also race-motivated arguments (i.e. “Muslims are dirty and here are hadith that allegedly support this even though Indians are the ones who stink up rooms with their rancid B.O. at least in Hindustan Northern Virginia” <—- see if you want to play on racial stereotypes it can be done to *anyone* especially non-whites). And then there is just the arrogance-motivated comments i.e. the constant insulting of the intelligence of Muslim commentators or automatic dismissive attitude of the things they say rather than engaging in an active and mature discussion (something that I guess the so-called enlightened world can't seem to do online). Then there's the use of"Muzzie" because using pejoratives only enhances one's maturity (which goes over people's heads apparently as the praise in light of such childishness and generally a major sign of a weak argument is astounding). I also enjoy the commenting and debating with Muslims who can't even type a proper sentence, but avoiding the comments from Muslims who do type coherently. The only "thanks for the feedback" comes to those who stroke your already inflated ego rather than objectively saying, I appreciate your comment but disagree and here is why. I point this out because people who devote their lives to hate (and I'm not talking about Muslims…as you'll be hard pressed to find the kind of published hate books and articles written on Muslims/Islam on another religion from a Muslim author!)

    There is one important point I'd like to address before touching on the article above, namely the claim that all terrorists are Muslims. What is a terrorist? What makes a person a terrorist? So Muslims kill under the name of God. Would it be better if they did the exact same acts in the name of something else, like greed or democracy? Do you honestly believe they're the only ones slaughtering in the name of God? What are the poor victimized Israeli settlers killing and stealing land over? Why are they justified in their God/religion-driven chaos and others not? What about those special forces groups like Xe who stylize themselves as Crusaders. They can kill and force ideologies on people and that's okay? But back to the point: how is terrorism defined? Is it not terrorism to invade a country, slaughter it's civilian population? Isn't that why Islam is bad–spread by the sword, an understandable argument (BUT not when it only applies to Islam and no other faith or ideology!!!)? Is spreading an ideology (as Islam is an ideology) by drones and cluster bombs somehow more civilized or an actual just and honor-filled war/method of fighting? How can one side be evil for a certain criteria and the other side not for doing the same? It's a war of ideologies and each side has their own perspective as to which is the ideology the world needs. HOWEVER, when it comes to it, most Muslims who are practicing Islam fully (a lot of opinion being stated as fact concerning Muslims and belief which lends me to believe have never actually been around Muslims!) disown and do not support acts in which civilians are hurt, regardless of what Qur'an or hadith or individuals say. On the flip side, the mass slaughter of Muslims in order to impose an ideology and to exploit natural resources and a population as a whole is not disowned or condemned except by anti-war protesters who are often marginalized for being too nice on Muslims–as if human beings deserved to be slaughtered like that for having a religion that is not liked. Unfortunately, hatred is not a consistent thing and so while Muslims will be forever called bloodthirsty for the actions of a misguided handful, the people who actually believe they can justify the use of nuclear weapons and drones and civilian deaths–human lives–as "collateral" will be praised as saviors and princes of peace and lovers of humanity and women.

    But…enough of that. Let's speak on this article.

    The first point is someone's opinion, not even supported by textual evidence, and is being used to supposedly disprove Islam–them being a scholar is insignificant. It's an insincere and grasping attempt to discredit Islam and does not even make sense. No where in Islam does it say Muslims face the Qibla because of unity. That is just an opinion and that is a bad one as it's speaking for God and why He has commanded Muslims to do certain things when such knowledge is unknown. The same goes for arguments 2 and 3 which are likewise just opinion and you cannot disprove a religion or ideology based on someone's interpretation of it!

    As for the specific point of circumnabulating, Hindus practice it as it is a part of the original message given to mankind. Hindus and Muslims were not the only ones to do so, pagans did around their altars as well. For a thinker, this means either 1. cultural borrowing or baggage 2. same origin. The fact that it existed before Islam begs to where did it originate form and why? In Islam all people had the truth but then they distorted it as humans naturally do. For some reason they can use the telephone game to apply this to various scenarios in real, active life, but not when thinking about the history of all religions (and that includes analyzing Islam as well…which goes back to my point about hadith and how they can't be frivolously quoted. There are many hadith, even those speaking of historical incidents that have been fabricated or are questionable based on source and when they are first reported).

    The points in argument 4 aren't even coherent. When is kissing idolatry??? The Sahabah copy the prophet because he's a PROPHET…that's how prophethood works in the Judaic tradition, of which Islam is a continuation of even if you don't believe it's true. To understand the copying or blind following in that respect, there has to be a basic understanding of what a prophet is and what is expected of a prophet's followers.

    Argument 5 is more opinion–moot to even address.

    Argument 6 is entirely based on the presumption that Heaven is ABOVE, which is actually a Christian concept and not found in the majority of the world's religions! Why can't heaven be on the same level of us? Even in Shamanic cultures that believe in multiple worlds and heavens. BUT again, this is all on the presumption of where Allah is and these sorts of debates are useless as they're philosophical in nature regardless of what texts say. These are how sects are created in certain instances. One group wants to say Allah is such and such and the other disagrees and says no he's such and such i.e. has hands or Allah's hands are metaphorical and not actually hands.

    As for the later points, they're simple and just a "my religion is better than yours" argument. Hindus bow to idols as they see the idols as a receptacle of sorts–or more blandly, a focus. The Kaba is not even a focus, it's just a building. Jews pray facing Jerusalem yet no one claims they're worshiping Jerusalem! If the Temple was still around, it would be towards the Temple specifically and again, no one would claim the Jews were worshiping the Temple because it's a building and that doesn't make sense–but the same standard does not apply to Muslims! The whole anti-idolatry ferocity that is claimed to be unique to Islam is NOT–it began with Judaism. The offense of idols is that they claim to take on the shape and appearance of God and again the Kaba is just a building. Imagine if someone said you a woman who fucks his brother and has animal-hybrid children who do all these things (or in a worldly and simple sense, someone called you Susan and insisted you were female and named Susan no matter what you say because some spirits are telling this person these things about you in dreams or revelations).

    I would like to end this with a quote from a non-Muslim:

    "I doubt that anyone can achieve religious faith until they start tolerating human frailties."

    • Dear Brother,

      We are indeed grateful to you for taking your time to review the articles on the site. We are also indebted to you for your thought-provoking feedback. We would like to mention a few points to append to your views:

      a. Please note that while the content of articles is something we control, we leave comment moderation to automatic spam protection scripts. Very rarely we moderate comments as we do not believe in, nor we have capacity for too much of policing.

      b. As for the articles, they are not directed to all Muslims in general, but to the popular image of Islam that is being projected by likes of Zakir Naik et al.

      c. The basic message that we want to drive home has been perfectly summed up by you in your ending quote. The only reason we have critically questioned popular Islam is to showcase that the claims of ‘ONLY Islam being best, rest all useless’ has little foundation.

      d. Today likes of Zakir Naik openly claim that all good people would still burn in Hell forever if they do not follow Quran, Prophet, Angels etc. Now we have no problem in someone believing in anything. But to curse someone in eternal Hell merely because he could not find Quran convincing enough or did not have time/ resources to master Arabic, then Quran and then meaning of its Verses, is both genesis of terrorism and insult of Ishwar/ Allah/God.

      e. We talk of Hadiths because unlike intellectuals, perverts like Zakir Naik and Deoband School of Islam believe that all Hadiths are true. And those who doubt Hadiths should do Tauba. Specially for Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, they believe them to be perfect and without errors. If you review our articles, you would find 99% references only to these Hadiths.

      f. Kindly review Dual Islam. We are in full support of Ghulam Jelani who says that hadiths should be trashed. We go a step further and say that all those verses of Quran which smell of inhumanity, slavery, etc should either be reinterpreted or rejected. There is no proof that this Quran is indeed final word of Allah and is preserved in same format as given by Gabriel.

      g. We don’t mind people respecting Quran, bible or any book for that matter as a book on good teachings, take inspirations and improve their lives. The problem comes when they start discriminating based on who believes in this book and who does not, and also start inhuman practices like polygamy, sex-slavery in name of religion.

      h. A more rational approach would be to say that I find Quran inspiring and I take good teachings from it. Whatever I don’t understand or find impractical, I do not follow and keep it open-ended that either it is interpolation or my limit of intellect. Similarly, other people may find some other book inspiring and let them take good teachings from there. All people, regardless of what they follow or not, if are on path of honesty and righteousness would ultimately acquire bliss.

      i. If you look into vedas, this is what the first books of mankind teach. We also don’t pressurize that one has to believe in Vedas to get salvation or heaven or whatever. Vedas themselves prohibit that. We simply say that be on path of truth and rest shall follow. Refer http://Satyagni.com/vedic-religion/

      j. Nowhere we want to showcase any particular caste or race as superior or inferior. Our Vedic dharma teaches us that all human beings are one single race and all have same potential to be legends. No, we do not believe in castes etc. We also do not defend or condemn various ritualistic methods of various cultures unless they lead to decadence in society.

      The objective of this articles was to prove that if Islam alone is best, as claimed by Zakir Naik, and still they justify Kaba worship, it is no way better, and perhaps worse than Hindu idol worship. Please note the word ‘IF’.

      So our objection is only against the claim that ONLY ISLAM IS BEST, REST ALL ARE KAFIRS and support of claims of considering Kafirs as second rate here and after.

      k. Dear Brother, we again iterate that all we have posted in this site is against the version of Islam being projected by radical groups like Al Qaeda, Deoband, IRF etc and not against a peaceful, docile average Muslim who enjoys living with Kafirs and wishes to be with good Kafirs in Zannat as well.

      But we need people like you to be on forefront representing true Islam so that fanaticism ends. We need people like you, who do not believe in Quran being ONLY and FINAL available message of Allah to be followed blindly and can accommodate non-believers, to be in limelight rather than fanatics liek Zakir Naik.

      But in countries like India, Zakir phenomenon is having really damaging effect. Terrorists consider him their new prophet, average Muslim youth is getting more intolerant and fanatic, the justify everything done in name of Islam, have been made to believe that they are being tortured across the world except in Saudi Arabia and keep living under delusion that only they are right. His videos where he justifies why non_muslims should not be allowed to preach their religions in Muslim countries, but Muslims should be allowed to propagate Islam in non-muslim countries, smell of a grave threat to humanity if rise of such fanatics is not thwarted. Ours is a humble attempt to do that. We face lot of abuses, curses and even death threats from all corners, which should not be surprise to you.

      But if all that helps curb the fanaticism to some extent and help Muslims distance from fanatic forces and come closer to Kafir world, our job would be done, even if few months down the line we may not be living anymore for hurting fanatic sentiments.

      And if that happens, we expect progressive intellectuals like you to carry the mantle in your own unique way to curb fundamentalism and narrow the Muslim-Kafir divide.

      Dhanyavad

  • and the black stone was very white whereas the ling (penis) is black and looks like penis but the black stone was round, and the idol must be in front for concentration whereas muslims bow down to the qibla which is miles away from them, so in hinduism way the arya’s kaba idol theory does not work thats why he is using dr.zakir naik’s lecture, and the quran in many verses prohbits bowing down to idols and there are terms in quran like idolaters so if muslims worship kaba then the term idolater would ve been used for muslims, and the vedas says god has no form and not to worship idol but we can see today there are millions of hindus maybe more than 95% of hindus who are polytheists, and i don’t think arya could even defeat a muslim who has average knowledge.

    • and if the ling is penis, then the black stone is Scrotum. Isn’t it ?
      so you see 95% of hindus who are polytheists but not 100% muslims whose claim of tauheed is exposed !!!

      I am absolutely in sync with you that arya can’t debate muslims with avg knowledge coz’ if the intelligent one see science behind splitting of moon and crying of stone, guess the level of avg ones !!

    • @sami
      Fact 1. We cant defeat a Muslim with an average knowledge.
      Fact 2. All the Muslims, who came to debate on Satyagni.com were defeated.

      Conclusion- Sami’s Muslims dont possess average knowledge!

      Brother, remove your hatred for us from your mind. We really want to help you get out of this Kaba worship, which is a Shirk, and embrace Vedic Dharm of actual Tauheed.

    • @Sami and All,
      Linga is not a penis. Linga symbolize beginning less and endless.
      There is a story explaining this please read carefully
      There was a quarrel between the Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma who is great? Both the creator and preserver of this universe were fighting to claim who is powerful among them. This went on for year and years. The sage Narada also convinced them that neither of the two were powerful nor Supreme. Then, the Lord Shiva made up his mind to show the truth, who is actual Supreme among two. To prove this he took the form of ling which was very big and immense. This linga stood in front of the two and a voice was heard from the linga, which was Lord Shiva himself and told that “Among you two who will first approach the top and bottom of this linga will be said to be the most powerful forever.” Then Brahma, changed himself as a swan and flew up to the sky to reach the top of the Fire and kept flying for hundreds and hundreds of years. But could not reach the top on the other side, Lord Vishnu changed himself as a boar and starting digging down the Earth to find the bottom.
      Who also did the same thing over couple of years and could not ever find the bottom. Then both of them realized that Lord Shiva, he who is endless without the start nor an end was only the “Superior” among both of them. Their fight had got a conclusion.
      continued…

      • …continue to previous post

        When Brahma changed as swan and fly up to sky he saw a thalampoo(its a flower search image in googe) coming down, and Brahma asked the flower to tell lie to Vishnu that he saw the beginning of linga, and it said lie to Vishnu. Siva immediately appear as a fire in mount Thiruvannaamalai(search in google about history), and cursed that thalampoo should not be used for Pooja and Brahma should not have separate temple who said lie.

        So that’s y Brahma should not have separate temple, other wise this story will not be true , Brahma should have separate temple like Siva or Vishnu.

        the story concludes
        1.Linga is Beginning less and End less.
        2.Siva/Ishwar is in form of fire and supreme of all
        3.Why Thalampoo is not consider for poojas.
        4.Why Brahma don’t have separate temple .

      • dear sds ur story of linga has few other conclusions too which u missed in ur post

        – ur creator god can tell a lie. and a liar is considred as god.
        – may be tats y most of u people encourage all kind of swamis who cheat and lie.
        – u people hv created a bunch of gods so tat they can quarrel,envy,compete,jealous among them selves, which are no charecters of god but of school kids this is rediculous.

      • Dear Zafar,

        Yes, our creator told lie, by no means i will argue to justify it.

        but let me tell u some facts,

        1. Our creator have limited period of time say 310 trillion years.
        2. Ishwar is superior of all and beginning less and end less

        3.The moral of the story says who ever say lie (Even creator) should undergo punishment s and pay for it( not like Islamic Allah who forgive all lie, rapists, murderers, terrorists if he just say Allahu Akbar who is suffering from problem of superiority complex)

      • Nice Answer SDS Brother and other point is Brahma and Indra are not worshiped by Hindus their images are also not allowed to be kept in Hindu Homes. All over India there is only one Brahma temple that is at Pushkar

      • you are wrong. There is a wat brahma in bangkok. Also there are lots of brahma temples in thailand. A hindu-buddhist country.

      • Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All

        The Quran describes Allah as the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not above using the same evil and wicked schemes of his opponents.

        For example, the Quran calls Allah a makr, in fact the best makr there is:

        But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30

        Other texts that identify Allah as a makr include:

        Are they then secure from Allah’s deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah’s deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99

        So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50

        The word for deception/deceiver/scheme is makr. The lexical sources define the term as:

        Miim-Kaf-Ra = To practice deceit or guile or circumvention, practice evasion or elusion, to plot, to exercise art or craft or cunning, act with policy, practice stratagem.

        makara vb. (1)
        perf. act. 3:54, 3:54, 7:123, 13:42, 14:46, 16:26, 16:45, 27:50, 40:45, 71:22
        impf. act. 6:123, 6:123, 6:124, 8:30, 8:30, 8:30, 10:21, 12:102, 16:127, 27:70, 35:10
        n.vb. 7:99, 7:99, 7:123, 10:21, 10:21, 12:31, 13:33, 13:42, 14:46, 14:46, 14:46, 27:50, 27:50, 27:51, 34:33, 35:10, 35:43, 35:43, 71:22
        pcple. act. 3:54, 8:30

        LL, V7, p: 256 (Source)

        And:

        He practised DECEIT, GUILE, or CIRCUMVENTION, desiring to do another a foul, an abominable, or an evil action, clandestinely or without his knowing whence it proceeded. (Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon; source)

        Lest Muslims accuse these lexicons of bias or distortion notice what Muslim scholar Dr. Mahmoud M. Ayoub says when he asks,

        “how the word makr (scheming or plotting), which implies deceitfulness or dishonesty, could be attributed to God.” (The Quran and Its Interpreters – The House of Imran [State University of New York Press [SUNY], Albany 1992], Volume II, p. 165; italic emphasis ours)

        After listing several Muslim sources he quotes a renowned Muslim expositor named ar-Razi who wrote that,

        “scheming (makr) is actually an act of deception aiming at causing evil. It is not possible to attribute deception to God. Thus the word is one of the muttashabihat [multivalent words of the Quran].” (Ibid., p. 166; italic emphasis ours)

        Unfortunately for ar-Razi, the Quran attributes deception to Allah since it identifies him as the best makr there is.

        Ayoub also sources one Muslim who actually boasted of Allah being the best conniver/deceiver/schemer etc.,

        “Qurtubi observes that some scholars have considered the words ‘best of schemers’ to be one of God’s beautiful names. Thus one would pray, ‘O Best of Schemers, scheme for me!’ Qurtubi also reports that the Prophet used to pray, ‘O God, scheme for me, and do not scheme against me!’ (Qurtubi, IV, pp. 98-99; cf. Zamakhshari, I, p. 366).” (Ibid., p. 166)

        And here, also, is how one of the earliest sources on the life of Muhammad interpreted Q. 8:30:

        Then he reminds the apostle of His favour towards him when the people plotted against him ‘to kill him, or to wound him, or to drive him out; and they plotted and God plotted, and is the best of plotters.’ i.e. I DECEIVED them with My firm GUILE so that I delivered you from them. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], p. 323; capital emphasis ours)

        Thus, the Quran unashamedly calls Muhammad’s god the best liar and deceiver of them all! It even dares to say that ALL deception belongs completely to Allah:

        And verily, those before them did deceive/scheme (makara), but all deception/scheming is Allah’s (falillahi al-makru). He knows what every person earns, and the disbelievers will know who gets the good end. S. 13:42

        In fact, the Quran states that Allah actually raises wicked individuals to deceive and scheme:

        Even so have we placed in every city, ringleaders of its wicked ones, to scheme therein (liyamkuroo): but only against themselves shall they scheme (yamkuroona)! and they know it not. S. 6:123 Rodwell

        And further commands people to do evil so that he can then have a reason to destroy them!

        And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, AND AFTERWARD they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation. S. 17:16 Pickthall

        ——————————————————————————–

        The Quran uses another word to denote that Allah is a liar, a schemer who has no problems using guile, namely kayd:

        And those who cry lies to Our signs We will draw them on little by little whence they know not; and I respite them — assuredly My guile (kaydee) is sure. S. 7:182-183 Arberry

        and I shall respite them — assuredly My guile (kaydee) is sure. S. 68:45 Arberry

        The lexicons provide the following definitions:

        Kaf-Ya-Dal (Kaf-Alif-Dal) = To be about to, be just on the point of, be well nigh, intend, wish, practise an artful device, desire, contrive/plot/devise such a thing, worked or laboured at or upon anything, to do something clandestinely, to deceive/beguile/circumvent, means of evading/eluding, vomited, emitted fire, had menstrual flux, gave up his spirit.

        kada vb. (1)
        perf. act. 12:76
        impf. act. 12:5, 21:57, 86:15, 86:16
        impv. 7:195, 11:55, 77:39
        n.vb. 3:120, 4:76, 7:183, 8:18, 12:5, 12:28, 12:28, 12:33, 12:34, 12:50, 12:52, 20:60, 20:64, 20:69, 21:70, 22:15, 37:98, 40:25, 40:37, 52:42, 52:46, 68:45, 77:39, 86:15, 86:16, 105:2
        pcple. pass. 52:42

        LL, V7, p: 166, 167 (Source; underline emphasis ours)

        The Quran furnishes plenty of examples that exemplify the negative aspect and nature of this term, e.g. those who use kayd are deliberately intending something evil which results in their judgement for employing such wicked schemes:

        What, have they feet wherewith they walk, or have they hands wherewith they lay hold, or have they eyes wherewith they see, or have they ears wherewith they give ear? Say: ‘Call you then to your associates; then try your guile (keedooni) on me, and give me no respite. S. 7:195 Arberry

        He [Jacob] said, ‘O my son [Joseph], relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they devise against thee some guile (fa yakeedoo laka kayda). Surely Satan is to man a manifest enemy. S. 12:5 Arberry

        So when he [Potiphar] saw his [Joseph] shirt torn from behind, he said: Lo! this is of the guile of you (kaydikunna) women. Lo! the guile of you (kaydakunna) is very great. S. 12:28 Pickthall

        So gather your guile (kaydakum); then come in battle-line. Whoever today gains the upper hand shall surely prosper. S. 20:64 Arberry

        the day when their guile (kayduhum) shall avail them naught, and they shall not be helped. S. 52:46 Arberry

        if you have a trick, try you now to trick Me (kaydun fa keedooni)!’ S. 77:39 Arberry

        Allah is even portrayed as stooping down to the level of the deceivers and liars by acting like them in his use of guile:

        They are devising guile (ya keedoona kaydan), and I am devising guile (Wa akeedu kaydan). S. 86:15-16

        ——————————————————————————–

        There is more to the story. The Quran uses yet another word in describing the deception of Allah, that word being khida/khuda/khada:

        Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them (Inna al-munafiqeena yukhadiaaoona Allaha wahuwa khadiaauhum). And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan

        Here, once again, is the lexical meaning of this specific word:

        Kh-Dal-Ayn = To hide/conceal, double or fold, deceive or outwit, pretend, to enter, vary in state/condition, refrain or refuse, relinquish, to be in little demand of, deviate from the right course, resist/unyield/incompliant, turn away and behave proudly.

        khada’a vb. (1)
        impf. act. 2:9, 8:62
        pcple. act. 4:142

        khada’a vb. (3) impf. act. 2:9, 4:142

        LL, V2, p: 344, 345, 346, 347 (Source)

        Lest there be any confusion concerning the fact that this word means that Allah is a deceiver notice how this term is used in the following references:

        They (think to) deceive Allah (Yukhadiaaoona) and those who believe, while they only deceive (yakhdaaoona) themselves, and perceive (it) not! S. 2:9 Hilali-Khan

        And if they would deceive thee (yakhdaaooka), then lo! Allah is Sufficient for thee. He it is Who supporteth thee with His help and with the believers, S. 8:6 Pickthall

        Is there any doubt that the unbelievers were using deception as they tried to deceive Muhammad and his companions? Just as there is no doubt that Allah also uses deception in deceiving them!

        ——————————————————————————–

        It gets worse. Satan accused Allah of misleading or deceiving him:

        He said: Now, because Thou hast sent me astray (aghwaytanee), verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path. S. 7:16 Pickthall

        [Iblis (Satan)] said: “O my Lord! Because you misled me (aghwaytanee), I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead (walaoghwiyannahum) them all. S. 15:39 Hilali-Khan

        What makes this last reference rather interesting is that Satan promises to do to mankind what Allah did to him, namely, pervert/deceive/mislead people from the path!

        Lest a Muslim say that these are the lies of Satan, that the enemy was merely slandering Allah, here is a text where the Quran acknowledges that the Devil was right since Allah does pervert/deceive/mislead people from the way:

        And my sincere counsel will not profit you, if I desire to counsel you sincerely, if God desires to pervert you (yughwiyakum); He is your Lord, and unto Him you shall be returned.’ S. 11:34 Arberry

        To say that this is amazing would be a wild understatement.

        ——————————————————————————–

        Concluding Remarks

        Our analysis has shown that Muhammad’s deity is a deceiver who cannot be trusted since he lies without hesitation.

      • There is a saying in Tamil “Tharmathin vaazhvu thanai soothu kavvum, tharmam marupadiyum vellum”..

        Hence Sir…Whatever you said is right only…trying to prove most of the things…adding something from here and there…but finally of no vein….

        I really doubt if you are copying from some sites and pasting them here….

        All the best…next time…

      • @SSS
        Poda maire
        I prove that you and your islam is false because it cannot protect its own people in own territory like afghanistan and iraq.

        poor allah, mairandi poda.

    • @SAMI
      ABE MADARBHAGAT who i worship is MY problem, idols or otherwise, who the hell are yuou to tell me that idolatory is wrong. After Satyagni proved that kaaba is also an idol, you refuse to admit it.
      You wont understand logical refutations by Satyagni and his ilk, lots of intelligent people on this forum.
      You muzzies only understand goondas like me. I worship idols, I worship bal thackeray , I consider myself ” bhagwaan ka avtaar” Now you gonna insult me, or fight me on this, pleaseeee I welcome you to fight your jihad. I can and will retaliate, dekhu tere allah ke gand me kitna dum hai.

  • arya yeah you don’t have shameless confidence but you are a shameless nut, by seeing your strange articles anyone can tell you how retarded you are, get someone to debate zakir naik or other muslim scholars and know one knows your mahinder pal arya, who is he? even idiots will not come to watch mahinder’s lecture coz all idiots are hindus. many of your famous religious leaders are caught in some scandals and murder cases and your president of arya samaj has already spoke on islam and ravi shankar had lost the debate coz of his lack of knowledge thats common in every hindu. truthofhinduism.com/news/list-of-true-devotees-of-hindu-deities-must-see/

    and there is already a rebuttal to your article http://www.answering-christianity.com/que11.htm

    @rahul my cheers to your idiocy now i know how you people are fooled.

    • @sami

      Islamic Brain at Work !!

      First of all, your zakir is shrugging his ass off, when it comes to debate arya samaj. i understand, idiots will not come to watch mahendra pal’s video coz’ all idiots are busy praising their paedophile prophet!
      I understand your concern for all the wrong deeds of those idiotic babas. But guess wat, even their combined deeds would not be able to match that of muhammad, be it murdering innocents or raping women. Atleast these babas have consensual sex, unlike muhammad who raped rehana, safiya, maria….list can go on n on . BTW, that taqiya of zakir has been caught!!! those were fake arya-samj pres and shankarachrya. kindly update urself to avoid embarrasement. and stop harping on that so-called debate b/w sri sri and zakir. that was never a debate but a dialogue to show similarities b/w hinduism n islam .go watch the video again.

      • kindly provide reference to Hadith or Quran verse that recommends such language for non-believing Kafirs. What makes you so passionate about using such words again and again as if it was an instruction from scriptures? Don’t you understand that by such language, you are insulting Islam and presenting completely wrong image of it?

        We discuss only ideological points, and that too as presented by fanatics like Zakir Naik. And you simply start using words which are haram as per our understanding of Islam. Are you a Qadiyani, because they were famous for abusive language?

      • Sami drink camel urine

        FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI, VOLUME 8, pages 97, 98 (1)

        “According to Muhammad b. Umar [al-Waqidi]: “In this year a raiding party led by Kurz b. Jabir al-Fihri set out against the members of the Banu Uraynah who had killed the herdsman of the Messenger of God and driven off camels in Shawwal of the year 6. The Messenger of God sent Kurz with twenty horsemen.””

        FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH BUKHARI (2)

        From Volume 1, #234

        1.234: Narrated Abu Qilaba:

        Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. They were put in ‘Al-Harra’ and when they asked for water, no water was given to them.” Abu Qilaba said, “Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle .”

        From Bukhari Volume 2, #577

        2.577: Narrated Anas:

        Some people from ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them, so Allah’s Apostle allowed them to go to the herd of camels (given as Zakat) and they drank their milk and urine (as medicine) but they killed the shepherd and drove away all the camels. So Allah’s Apostle sent (men) in their pursuit to catch them, and they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut, and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron and they were left in the Harra (a stony place at Medina) biting the stones.

        Similar references are found in Bukhari 5.505, 7.623, and 8.797.

        FROM THE SIRAT RASUL ALLAH (THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET OF GOD), BY IBN ISHAQ (3), pages 677, 678

        “A traditionalist told me from one who had told him from Muhammad b. Talha from Uthman v. Abdul-Rahman that in the raid of Muharib and B. Thalaba the apostle had captured a slave called Yasar, and he put him in charge of his milch-camels to shepherd them in the neighborhood of al-Jamma. Some men of Qays of Kubba of Bajila came to the apostle suffering from an epidemic and enlarged spleens, and the apostle told them that if they went to the milch camels and drank their milk and their urine they would recover, so off they went. When they recovered their health and their bellies contracted to their normal size they fell upon the apostle’s shepherds Yasar and killed him and stuck thorns in his eyes and drove away his camels. The apostle sent Kurz b. Jabir in pursuit and he overtook them and brought them to the apostle as he returned from the raid of Dhu Qarad. He cut off their hands and feet and gouged out their eyes.”

        FROM THE KITAB AL TABAQAT AL KABIR (BOOK OF THE MAJOR CLASSES), Volume 2, BY IBN SA’D, pages 114, 115 (4)

        Then (occurred) the sariyyah of Kurz Ibn Jabir al-Fihri towards al-Uraniyin in Shawwal of the sixth year from the hijrah of the Apostle of Allah. They (narrators) said: A party of the Uraynah numbering eight came to the Apostle of Allah and embraced Islam but the climate of al-Medina did not suit them. Thereupon the Apostle of Allah ordered them to live with his milch-camels which used to graze at Dhu al-Jadr in the vicinity of Quba close to Ayr at a distance of six miles from al-Medina. They remained there till they recuperated and became fat. One morning they made a raid on the milch camels and drove them away. Yasar the mawla of the Apostle of Allah, with a party confronted them. He fought with them. They cut his hands and feet and pricked thorns in his tongue and eyes. Consequently he died. The news of his incident reached the Apostle of Allah. He sent twenty horsemen to pursue them and appointed Kurz Ibn al-Fihri their leader. They reached there, and surrounded them. They captured them, tied them, and seating them on their horses they brought them to al-Medina. The Apostle of Allah, was at al-Ghabah. They set out with them towards him and met him at al-Zaghabah, the place where flood water came from all directions. He gave orders and their hands and feet were amputated, their eyes were extracted. They were crucified. Then the verse was revealed to the Apostle of Allah:

    • @sami

      see, now ur exposed, and there is no place for u to run or hide, u just have to accept the fact that muslims are idolators, so my advice is quit being an idolator, and return to the true religion of non idolatry and bliss, Vedic Dharma

      • Oh Mr. Vik, you are here!! I was looking for you on Youtube. I thought may be you are ill or have some work but you have all the time here to bash Islam. What happened to your challenge to make me cry. I have seen no reply from you for 3 days now. Anyway I have posted the whole conversation we had on my website for all to read.

        Here is the link

        http://www.theintellectual.info/religion/hinduism/279-general-dialogue-on-islam-and-hinduism

        Hope you come up with a response. Till then I think you should be ashamed of bashing Islam when you cannot defend your own religion

      • @intellectual

        I thought I gave u the answer in those mails, now if u cannot understand them what can I do, I told u, muslims claim Quran to be written by Allah, so it should all be in first person, so why does allah himself say bismillah????

      • @intellectual

        I proved to you that Pandit Mahendra Pal Arya is right and your refutation is wrong. I told u before too, that Vedas are revealed in the hearts of the rishis, so that is why its in third person, first person, please read my last mail properly. I gave an answer to you that u cannot refute. Now, if u want to waste time arguing baselessly thats ur problem not mine. As far as posting the conversation goes, please do it, let the world see who is providing stupidity and who is providing facts. Even I have been posting your feedbacks through various friends.

        Then you went on with your stupid explanations of Vedas trying to justify Eeshwar and his wrathful anger, from that point I knew it, that u have lost it, so it was pointless arguing. I can only argue logically, not illogically like u

        I have defended my religion, its you who cannot digest the loss of ur islam.

    • what is the meaning of debate.
      You tell me can ur God take a personal form

      CAN HE

      IF NO ,Then what kind of God is he.If He cannot take a personal form it means that he has no such Quality. This is against the meaning of BHAGVAN

      BHAG- opulence
      VAN-one who possess them in full

      My God is Beautiful,famous in all planetary system even lord brahma and shiva would take the dust of his feet

      He has his personal form as Krishna and he is situated in everyones heart as impersonal paramatma… He can take any form by his will

      he can adopt any colour by his will . black , white, pink, yellow…….Any

      He is all knowledgeable he could remember his speaking of Gita to sun god which he spoke millions and billions yeras before he spoke this to arjun..

      READ THIS
      BG 12.2: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.

      BG 12.3-4: But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, fixed and immovable — the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth — by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.

      BG 12.5: For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

      BG 12.6-7: But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Pṛthā — for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

      BG 12.8: Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.

      let us take the example of sun .
      sun radiates light in all direction and this light is travelling in all directios in the whole cosmos
      but if a person says that the impersonal light is great then it means he does not know about the great personal son who is the origin of that light .

      PLEASE UNDERSTAND

      • Ravi you fool. Not talk about our beloved Allah (SWT). He live above all, and live above your bhagwan you cow pee drink..lol

        Allah (SWT) can do everything, he can take form and come on earth but he is not like your week gods (does not know how many are their….lol) who comes even in cow or pig form… lol. Can you tell any cow cutting in slotter house is god or not???? lol people kills and eats your gods, how powerful is your gods…lol

        ALLAH (SWT) CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTING. HE IS STRONG THEN YOUR GODS. OUR BELOVED PROFET MOHAMMED (SAW) MEET ALLAH ((SWT) IN SHAB E MERAZ WHEN HE FLY TO SKY ON BURAQ A DEVINE HORSE. ALLAH CAN MEET WITH THOSE WHO ARE CHOOSE BY ALLAH (SWT). PROFET ADAM AND PROFET MOSES ALSO MEET ALLAH (SWT).

        so you revert back to islam than only you are safe from hell. think about hereafter that you all associate partner with Allah (SWT) than Allah (SWT) do not forgive you on jugment day. See, all scientist, engeneer, doctor, actor and all other are reverting to islam and islam is the fastest growing religion. so dont waist time in false relegion. islam is the only way for life

        i can clearify your all misconception about islam Alhamdulilla. if you agrees, i can give my email id and you can ask your questions on it. just think

        Anwar

      • @Anwar

        keep these childish bedtime stories of judgement day or hell heaven to urself. From your message, you appear to be a Qadiyani, so tell me who is the final prophet of islam? Ghulam Mirza, Mohammad, or Zakir Naik??? Your list of prophets never stop do they?

        Answer the questions on this article, if islam is against idolatry, then why are you bowing towards that kaaba?????

        Islam is decreasing in continents like Africa, what have you got to say about that?

      • @Vik

        relax dude,

        these idiots will never learn n keep on saying that they break idols but never bow before any they are complete hypocrites. I have been debating a bunch of idiots on other sites saying saying the same thing showing same hypocracy

      • anwar,
        I simply ask ane Question that is Quran worshipable or not. Tell me dont you touch Quran to ur head as a respect to almighty Allah’s words. Sorry if you felt bed but Allah the impersonal form is described in vedas.

        Even arrival of prophet mohammad is described. It is described that he will be a meat eater.

        arrival of lord jesus is described.

        Arrival of Lord chaitanya is described.He appeared 500 yrs back in mayapur w.bengal.

        and many more.

        My dear Dr.Zakir Naik believes in Kalki, And the impersonal description of God, he believes in the description of jesus and mohammad.

        and rest he says that he dont know that whether ramand krishna were thare or not.

        It means that he believes in some portion and rejects the other.

        This is cheating.

        simply cheating the innocent people.

        Either you accept everything or reject everything.

        you r cheating.

        do you know all the shastra
        NO
        then why do you says about that
        READ THIS

        Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 12.13.4-9

        it takes atleast 12 years to learn sanskrit
        brāhmaḿ daśa sahasrāṇi
        pādmaḿ pañcona-ṣaṣṭi ca
        śrī-vaiṣṇavaḿ trayo-viḿśac
        catur-viḿśati śaivakam
        daśāṣṭau śrī-bhāgavataḿ
        nāradaḿ pañca-viḿśati
        mārkaṇḍaḿ nava vāhnaḿ ca
        daśa-pañca catuḥ-śatam
        catur-daśa bhaviṣyaḿ syāt
        tathā pañca-śatāni ca
        daśāṣṭau brahma-vaivartaḿ
        laińgam ekādaśaiva tu
        catur-viḿśati vārāham
        ekāśīti-sahasrakam
        skāndaḿ śataḿ tathā caikaḿ
        vāmanaḿ daśa kīrtitam
        kaurmaḿ sapta-daśākhyātaḿ
        mātsyaḿ tat tu catur-daśa
        ekona-viḿśat sauparṇaḿ
        brahmāṇḍaḿ dvādaśaiva tu
        evaḿ purāṇa-sandohaś
        catur-lakṣa udāhṛtaḥ
        tatrāṣṭadaśa-sāhasraḿ
        śrī-bhāgavataḿ iṣyate

        MEANING

        The Brahmā Purāṇa consists of ten thousand verses, the Padma Purāṇa of fifty-five thousand, Śrī Viṣṇu Purāṇa of twenty-three thousand, the Śiva Purāṇa of twenty-four thousand and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam of eighteen thousand. The Nārada Purāṇa has twenty-five thousand verses, the Mārkaṇḍeya Purāṇa nine thousand, the Agni Purāṇa fifteen thousand four hundred, the Bhaviṣya Purāṇa fourteen thousand five hundred, the Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa eighteen thousand and the Lińga Purāṇa eleven thousand. The Varāha Purāṇa contains twenty-four thousand verses, the Skanda Purāṇa eighty-one thousand one hundred, the Vāmana Purāṇa ten thousand, the Kūrma Purāṇa seventeen thousand, the Matsya Purāṇa fourteen thousand, the Garuḍa Purāṇa nineteen thousand and the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa twelve thousand. Thus the total number of verses in all the Purāṇas is four hundred thousand. Eighteen thousand of these, once again, belong to the beautiful Bhāgavatam.

        So have you gone through them
        NO

        PLEASE READ …………

        Zakir Naik has mugged up some of them. he has not understood everything than how can he speak on the subject matter that he does not know.

        Problem is that he himself once said that he has no faith in muhammad.
        this is great cheating … cheating cheating

        Mohammad gave the message of god and you dont believe him. rascaldom.

        shastra says that to understand god one has to approach bonafied spiritual master.(guru)

        one cannot understand god by his own imperfect senses or by mugging up shastra.

        But Zakir Naik disproves the autherity of mohammad.
        how this rascal can understand god by his own senses. he is imperfect.

        if you reject the mohammad then why do you preach. what is the use of preaching.

        if one can understand the words of god without spirituak master(mohammad) then give Quran to everyone and they will themselve understand ….. this is blunder… gambling.

      • ravi
        You have very good intention Brother but I think many places I differ with your views. Vedas are the books Rig, Yaju, Sam, Atharva only. Any scripture other than these four is not Vedas. Puranas are later day scriptures, many of them may not be authentic. Vedas dont contain history. Then why did you write that Vedas talk about Jesus or Muhammad meat eater?

        Also, Yog Darshan says that God is supreme Guru and thus we have direct connection with Him. Being disciple of a human Guru is not a necessary condition to achieve salvation.

        thanks

      • vedanti i wrote veda at many places instead of shastra. sorry for that.

        now please read this

        srimad bhagvatam describes that there are many spiritual prctices which cannot be practiced in this age of kali. kaliyuga.

        in kaliyuga peoples mind and intelligence will diminish they will not have the understing of what is right and what is wrong…..

        Lord sri krishna hiself had a guru … Look he is the supreme personslity of godhead and still to teach the real way and the only way of getting spiritual is hiself accepted sandipani muni as guru

        Lord sri chaitanya mahaprabhu accepted ishvara puri as guru .

        What is the need of God accepting Guru.

        it is that You follow what i do and say. Dont interpret. this is what god says.

        harer nama harer nama
        harer namaiva kevalam
        kalau nasty eva nasty eva
        nasty eva gatir anyatha

        [“In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.”(Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila, 17.21)]

        did u understand this that we r imperfect and cannt follow the principles of sat yuga and dvapar yaga … we cannot perform austerities like demigods can…

        we are imperfect with imperfect senses.
        for example
        1. we cannot predict whats going in the room next to us.
        2. we have cheating propensity.
        3.we cannot see beyond a certain range
        4.we have short term memory loses.

        and too many…

        so tell me how can we understand the deep meaning hidden in the shastra with the limited vision ..and imperfect senses.

        the only way to get salvation in this age of kaliyuga is chanting of the holy name of the lord
        Hare Krsna Hare Krsna
        Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
        Hare Rama Hare Rama
        Rama Rama Hare Hare

      • @anwar
        Your allah is stronger than our false gods. REALLY? please come and meet me, I will show you who is stronger. We hindus destroyed 270 graves (kabar) in gujarat, this PROVES that allah is not strong, and is a false god. Hinduism is stronger

        HAR HAR MAHADEV

  • Namaste Satyagniji,
    I don’t know which brain god has gifted you (I mean you earned by Theory of Karma). This is very nice and unbiased aticle on such hot topic. In order to have good human society we need such type of prabodhan otheriwse these real fanatic people will take it to some wrong direction.
    Parmeshwar aapko lambhi aayu deve yahi praarthana …
    OM….

  • Mumtaz!

    the following quote alone proves there is no unity in direction.

    ” Do Muslims actually have unity in direction while prayers? When a Muslim in east of Mecca faces west, at the same time a Muslim in west of Mecca faces east! Both face opposite to each other! If Zakir Naik says this as unity then two armies facing each other should also be considered as united and thus friends!”

    Zakir bhai use chapter 0 versus 00 in Quran to choose the direction for following quote

    “To which direction a Muslim will bow, who is just opposite of Mecca on spherical earth ? He has both options to bow to his east or west! How does the concept of unity work there? “

  • My friend this a fantastic article, I am totally impressed with your minute analysis and efforts that you put in….talking about bowing towards Kaba’s direction…I had the same thought in my mind……the earth is spherical, which means only if u r present in a certain radius i.e. if u can actually see the kaba there is a point bowing down to it…otherwise, if u bow down, and let’s say u draw a straight line from that position….u point of direction wud be towards the sky due to the shape of the earth, unless muslims still believe that the earth is a flat….also, wat abt a person in australia, or say south america…how do they get their directions straight…do they use a compass……anyway, there r a lot of discrepancies in what is said in Quran…it is like it condemns something at one place, then at another place it says it is okay if u have done such a thing…god is forgiving…so the problem is, that every muslim person can give himself an excuse…u know…i did something wrong, no worries, i can repent for it, allah is forgiving….whereas, hindu’s believe in karma and dharma…u get what u sow…all right, god is forgiving, no doubts about that…..but u can’t be doing something wrong deliberately, nd assuming that u wud be forgiven by doing zakah, charity nd all that…..that’s all for now….i am open to further discussion!

  • This is an excellent article for charlatans like Zakir Naik who are hell bent on criticizing Hinduism and thereby seeking converts.

    However, your article is very provocative towards Muslims. Please try to mellow down your tone and use politically correct words. Second, please give references whenever you talk about the Vedas and Quran. Third, email this article to IRF and let’s see Zakir Naik’s arguments.

    But hats off to your logical and structural analysis that debunks the myth– Of Islam not being idolatory.

    • Thanks for your feedback. We would like to clarify a few points.

      a. Our articles are not directed towards an average Muslim who is tolerant of other faiths and enjoys co-existing with other peace loving humans. Many cults in Islam as well as many offshoots of islam are very tolerant, and we have highest respect for their tolerance.

      Our articles are directed towards those fanatics who, in name of Islam, believe that only those who believe in Quran are blessed ones and everyone else, despite whatever be his deeds, will go to Hell forever. Such people who cannot dare to condemn Osama Bin laden but can state clearly that just as a student who scores 100 in all subjects but fails in one subject cannot be promoted, similarly all who are good people but do not blindly embrace Islam have to live in Hell!

      When we use word Islam or Muslim, we are referring only to such people who claim to be true and only authentic representatives of Islam or Muslim world.

      For such people, who are guided by fanaticism to consider others as kafirs, cannot be deserving of mellowed tone.

      b. This article was or general audience and focussed more on logic and argument based on well known facts. Hence we avoided giving references and making it heavy reading. If there are doubts on certain aspects of the central theme of the article, we would be eager to provide references.

      c. We do not intend to write to Zakir Naik anymore because we have already done so in past and he has refused to accept our requests for discussions. We do not consider him to be an intellectual person and hence do not expect him to provide any reasonable thoughts. Our focus is to bring awareness among common masses against the nuisance that Zakir and other fanatics are creating.

      You may feel free to mail the article to Zakir Naik though. (IRF does closely follow this website and hence these articles would reach him in any case. IRf has already initiated a project to counter such questions being raised against their version of Islam)

      d. Finally, our objective of all the criticisms in this site is not to claim ‘I am good, you are bad’. It is simply to emphasize that any ideology that claims that ‘all who do not believe in my book will be doomed forever’ has to rise up and showcase that they are beyond any imperfections.

      There are analysis of other tolerant ideologies as well, but that is merely as an intellectual exercise to reach up to truth. This is the way of scientists and the way encouraged by Vedas to arrive at truth.

      But in both case, we maintain highest level of compassion for people, even though we may be objective in analyses of concepts. I expect readers to read all the content on the site with this background.

      Dhanyavad

      • Zakir naik has fantastic memory, great oratory.But he is using it to spread fanatism, that too in a camafleg. Muslmin thinkers should take some time out to deal with him.Chidambaran shoud take some time out from his crusade against Bhagava tererism to look in to his speach in Kashmir before it will be too late.

  • Bahut ache Satyagni Ji… Can u put one more thig in your article..!!!
    As Muslims are not allowed to direct their feet towards Kaaba, and wherever on the earth they live, they face towards the direction of Kaaba while praying..So don’t they direct their feet towards that direction while sleeping?
    and since the earth is round, it is not true that they face towards Kaaba while praying…

  • Really awesome article. I also knew all these things but could not put in my blog yet.
    Thanks your knowledge sharing with others. You are really doing a great job.
    Please let me know you are the one guy or you are a group? Please answer it.

    Thanks & Best Regards,
    Ishwar bless you.
    ~S~

  • AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSOOOOMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE

    IT WAS PERFECT …IT WAS IN MIND for many years but dont hav word to describe with logically.. n the fact, proof which i wrote in note u give more than which i had like black stone perfect exmple .
    you explain very beautifully without using biased policy.. and “WORD MAGIC TRICKS” like zakir bhai sahab..

    may be the educate muslim may think freely without the fear they carrying since their childhood..

    thank you sir thnks a lot..

    god bless you sir ji

  • excellent article, see this article alone will show the double standards of muslims, they do the biggest idol worship but criticize others for worshipping small idols. Just as Swami Dayanand said, “Your case is just the same as that of a man who strains at a gnat but swallows a camel.” (Satyarth Prakash, chap 14)

    I been using these same arguments for years in convincing muslims that they are no different from idolators, and I really like this article since it has more facts that I was not aware of. Thank you very much for this excellent piece of hard work.

    • dear sir here mr Satyagni has done so much of study but he could not find the meaning of sajda, infact he wasted his time, any way not being so harsh on him as his own policy i would take a minute of yours to say some thing, muslims never worship kaba we do sajda(bowing) in its direction from all the parts of globe, to show that muslims beleive in one allah(one direction reminds every muslim five times a day that we are all one), it is not necessary that if muslims bow towards kaba that we worship kaba it is to bring all the human beings to one platform as islam is a universal religion it is an order from prophet muhammed swas to do sajda in this direction because it is in centre of earth, if he had ordered us anyother place or direction other than kaba that place or monument would have got same respect for us, what he needed at that time of limited resources was a monument which had popularity, a standard place which everybody was well aware of.
      if he had not given that one direction every body would start his own direction and say my direction of prayer is the most correct one, as it complies with the thesis. and there will be groups and allah sbht wants us to live in peace not fight.
      hope i have tried to clear your doubt and i pray to allah sbht that you get guidance.

      • j_sach has just copy Zakir Naik. It confirm that in Muslmin today there is only one who think.Zakir Naik who else?

      • @ i_sach –
        Dear Friend
        All u urself proved dat muslims worship a human being (Muhhammad) n nt Allah(One God) dat u all claim to. Zakir Naik’s claim of direction is all exposed so don’t try to present dat logic all over again cos ur unity concept does not hold true in circumstances mentioned by Satyagni.

        And puh leas at least u dun talk of peace as its ur fanatics brothers only r d major disturbance for mankind today in d name of wat u call it JIHAD (Fight against non-believers). Go believe in Allah who u proclaim to have created this universe n dun detoriate it by followin sum body who married a 9 yr old when he himself was 54. How mentally n socially disturbing it is to e1 hear dat sumbody 50+ married a 9 yr old girl child.. E1 me who s at my youngest of age would not e1 dream of doin so, imagine how sexually obsessed such a 54 yr man wud b who married a 9 yr old.

        N worst is how can so many number of ppl follow wat all he said so bluntly without especially when the value system of such a man is exposed by all his actions in d name of GOD.
        Heinous!!

      • Exceptional work from agniweer! Mr Naik sounds like idiot when he use these six irrational arguments for kaba black stone.illiterate Muslims thinks him great , why mohammad killed so many in the name of idol worshipers i still do not understand except his fanaticism…intolerance,,,great work dear keep it up . we indian believe in bramh…upnishad says ‘AHAM BRAMHAMI’ i think ths will cross over head of many including dr naik mbbs.Regards

      • Ka’abah is the Qiblah i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Ka’abah during prayers, they do not worship the Ka’abah. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allaah.

        It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah: “We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.” [Al-Qur’ân 2:144]

        1. Islam believes in fostering unity
        For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Ka’abah. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Ka’abah they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Ka’abah they face the west.

        2. Ka’abah is at the Centre of the World Map
        The Muslims were the first people to draw the map of the world. They drew the map with the south facing upwards and north downwards. The Kaaba was at the centre. Later, western cartographers drew the map upside down with the north facing upwards and south downwards. Yet, Alhamdullilah the Ka’abah is at the centre of the world map.

        3. Tawaf around Ka’abah for indicating one God
        When the Muslims go to Masjid-e-Haram in Makkah, they perform tawaf or circumambulation round the Ka’abah. This act symbolizes the belief and worship of One God, since, just as every circle has one centre, so also there is only one Allah (swt) worthy of worship.

        4. Hadith of Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him)
        Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a Hadeeth (tradition), attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).

        According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, “I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you”.

        5. People stood on Ka’abah and gave the adhaan
        At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Ka’abah and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. One may ask those who allege that Muslims worship the Ka’abah; which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships?

      • @asif

        Namaste asif,

        if you would utilize ur energy more in arguing using your original ideas rather than copy pasting from the IRF website whom we all consider a joke, then it would make a big difference to us and urself.

        Ironically, these stupid claims you provided, have been refuted in the same article that you are commenting on, so next time, please read the article FIRST!! before commenting since the stupidity of your comments show that you have not even read one word of this article.

        Let me answer your main questions since you were kind enough to come on this site and comment here, besides how can we let you go empty handed right?

        We know you face the kaaba for prayers and unity, when did we refuse? We are simply saying that praying or facing towards an idol while you pray is called idolatry. Simple english.

        Kaaba is the center of the world? Which world? Sorry, we do not accept Madarsa Geography facts on this site. Our science and geography taught us that the inner core of the earth is its center. Our geography taught us that the inner core is surrounded by the outer core which is surrounded by the lower mantle which is surrounded by the upper mantle, and finally the crust of the earth. So according to our geography, the inner core is the center, and its NOT CALLED KAABA!!!

        Anybody can stand or immerse idols, but let me tell you something a true idolator will never do, a true idolator will never hack his idol into pieces, now, tell me, will you be able to hack the kaaba into pieces to prove to us that your not an idolator?

    • 1-If your idols are just for concentration and absentmindedness is a mental problem then very few would require idols as a prayer aid.
      2- I note that the idol is not object of worship.Would you use an idol of Jesus,voodoo, a picture of Kaaba or any deity for your “concentration”?
      3-If function of the idols is just to provide concentration why to compel mentally sound people to use idols?
      4- Kaaba has no divine attributes.It will be shirk to bow to , it if this stones are out of their present place,unlike pagan idols.

      • @gms:

        1-If your idols are just for concentration and absentmindedness is a mental problem then very few would require idols as a prayer aid.

        So, your position is that very few are absentminded. I dont have an opinion on this, but just want to make sure if this IS your position.

        Would you use an idol of Jesus,voodoo, a picture of Kaaba or any deity for your “concentration”?

        I personally will not (because of the fact that Christians will want to claim me as one of them and boost their score in the numbers game about which religion has most adherents because I worship an idol of Jesus, and likewise Muslims will want to claim me as one of them because I worship a picture of Kaaba. I am NOT a Christian/Muslims precisely because I do not believe that there is ONLY ONE RIGHT WAY to pray.)

        3-If function of the idols is just to provide concentration why to compel mentally sound people to use idols?

        Who is compelling whom? Do you see Hindus go knocking door to door FORCING people to take an idol of Rama/Krishna/Kali, etc. and saying this is the ONLY way to pray if one wants to avoid hell?

        Also, why on earth do YOU care how others pray?

      • @gms

        Get out of the 7th Century mentality and nomenclature (what is “pagans”???). Learn to respect the sentiments of other people. Understand (if your mind allows) that Idol in itself is nothing, it is the prayers that synergies the life-less idols and make it worth worshiping. We worship the “positive energy” in those Idols divinely accumulated by the prayers and mantras, NOT just any Idol.

        Have you heard tawaiz (Holy Lockets)? What is that?– It is a material that has been charged by the power of prayers. And hence it protects when one wears it. Without prayers that tawaiz is an ORDINARY piece of metal–a mere scrap! So TRY AND SEE THE LOGIC BEHIND IDOL WORSHIP– To seek blessings from the prayers of others. We call this process INDUCTION.

      • Well at least you confess to be an idol worshiper.Nothing I can do about it except to draw your attention to the fact that all the holy books (tora, bible,vedas and traditional African and south American religions ) spoke against it.
        Tawiz or any tablets medically prescribed are not idols.

      • @gms,
        why do we worship idols, which cannot protect itself? Well, same like you worship in a stone structure called mosque which cannot protect itself, we demolished it in 1992. Why are you screamiung about babri masjid? It PROVES that like our idols , allah is also a FALSE god who cannot protect his own mosque. Bloody hypocrites. Actually we should have demolished ALL mosques in september 1947.

      • muslims should not bow in mosques or make mosques and destroy alll existing mosques since it is has an aakar or shape and bowing to shapeless ALLAH by going in shapefull Mosque is no where justified..[:d]…

      • you should also be destroying all gurudwaras, churches, temples…..etc and also kill the followers of all religions (including hindus) throughout the world except Satyagni & co. bcoz only Arya samaj has the right to live in this world. Come on grow up and stop dreaming.

      • There is no rule in vedic dharma that worshipping idol is sin or fear of permanent hell is shown….So we dont need anything to destroy….No one in this world can concentrate on infinite or think of it……

      • I don’t need to know about your future terrorist plans(destroying mosques,killing women and children, raping etc) .And if as you say Allah could not protect his Babri mosque therefore is a false god ,then the same applies to places of worship of other religions which are being routinely demolished.

      • @gmd and wellsaid,

        YOu bloody muslims are first rate hypocrites. “Why do you worship idols, which cannot protect themselves, how can they protect you.” This line I heard from countless muslims. Kaan pak gaye mere. So, I gave example of babri masjid and 370 (yes two hundred and seventy) graves (kabar) demolished in gujarat. Same logic, it should be okay?
        And I am a hindu fanatic who does NOT want to destroy places of worship of other religions like gurudwaras or churches. ONLY mosques. Because I REVERSE muslim logic. Muslims believe all momins are brothers to each other all non-muslims are kaffir. I reverse it. ALL non-muslims (kaffir) are my brothers and all momins are my enemy. Hence i only target muslim places of worship to demolish and target muslims, not all non-hindus and definetely not only arya samajis.

        You muslims are first rate hypocrites, when in majority you want islamic state wipe out hindu minority and when in minority you want secular country, and then remember all religions. Bloody hypocrites.

      • I understand your exasperation about the Hindus deserting to the other religions especially to Islam and Christianity, and your failure to stop it.They say if you can not stop them Join them.Your desperate methods will never work.

      • @gms
        abe shaane, I am pointing out your bloody muslim HYPOCRISY. Why cant we demolish mosques like you demolished my temples in pakistan, bangladesh and now kashmir? We are in majority no? Or you think we canot fight? It PROVES that allah is also false god.
        Incidentally I hate only muslims and desecrate their place of worship not all non-hindus. I am showing my HATRED, you think it is exasperation? YOu understand english?