Dr Zakir Naik’s fraud exposed

This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/2971/naikexposed-hi/

While I have always been critical of his approach and conclusions, I always admired Dr Zakir Naik’s sincerity and loyalty to Muslims. I was impressed by his gigantic efforts in studying thousands of pages of scriptures and selecting verses that could be used to derive whatever crazy interpretations he has derived to prove Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in all world scriptures. I always used to wonder how he could gain all the time and energy to do so despite such a busy schedule of lecturing world around!

But suddenly I came across a book “Muhammad in World Scriptures” by Maulana Abdul Haque Vidyarthi written in 1936. And I was shocked to find that Dr Zakir Naik has done NOTHING MORE THAN simply copying-pasting from this book, mostly word-to-word and cooked up his own ‘original’ research which he uses to claim that he is an expert in ‘Comparative Religion’. This is blatant plagiarization! And that too from a source that his followers consider worse than Kafirs.

So all Dr Zakir Naik has done is copying from works of another person, memorizing those and claiming all the fame for himself! And he did this so blindly that he did not bother even see the background of the original writer or how he has backstabbed his followers in the process.

Because Maulana Adbul Haque Vidyarthi was not an ordinary Muslim.

On contrary, he belonged to a cult which almost the entire Muslim world, and especially the sects which believe in ideology of Dr Zakir Naik considers as non-Muslim. They are in fact banned in Pakistan and many other countries. Ask any Muslim scholar, and he would start hurling abuses on them for disgracing Islam and Muhammad.

Yes, I am referring to the Ahmadiyya or Qadiyani cult. Maulana Abdul Haque Vidyarthi was a disciple of its founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed who is considered worse than a Kafir by all Muslims who are fan of Dr Zakir Naik.

The reasons why Muslims hate Ahmadiyyas and refuse to consider them as Muslims are because they hold certain beliefs that no Muslim and follower of Dr Zakir Naik would dare to agree. Some are as follows:
a. Ahmadiyyas believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was a Prophet or Messenger, and this is ‘shirk’ – unpardonable sin as per Muslims
b. Ahmadiyyas believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed continued to receive new revelations
c. Ahmadiyyas believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be a Messiah
d. Ahmadiyyas believe that Ram, Krishna, Buddha, Ashoka and Guru Nanak were also Prophets
e. Ahmadiyyas believe that Kalki Avatar would also be the final Prophet

and most importantly, the founder of Ahmadiyya cult is alleged to have hurled abuses and even cursed to Hell those who refused to believe in his prophethood!

The concept of Avtar is a ‘shirk’ as per Islam. All Islamic Madarsa teach books of Maulvi Md Ismail which specifically states that anyone believing in Avtars or further Prophets or Avtars as Prophets is doing ‘shirk’.

Dr Zakir Naik knows all this – that is why in FAQ on Hinduism, he refused to accept that Vedas can be revelations.

But he forgot that the material he has used to write other articles are directly lifted from Maulana Abdul Haque’s writings who agrees that Vedas are revelations. Thus  proving Prophet in Vedas or Bhavishya Puran is fine with Ahmadiyyas because that is how they justify prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also.

But for all other Muslims, on whose faith popularity of Dr Zakir Naik rests, this is ‘kufra’.

While these writings do not affect Hindus or even Buddhists, Christians etc much, they definitely backstab a devout Muslim, especially when source of reference is not being quoted.

In summary, Dr Zakir Naik is guilty of :
a. Copying directly, even word to word, from works of Maulana Abdul Haque Vidyarthi, an Ahmadiyya without even quoting his references. This is blatant plagiarism.
b. Using his own name instead to falsely proclaim that he is expert on comparative religion
c. Cheating with other Muslims who consider Ahmadiyya and their beliefs to be worse than those of Kafirs
d. Backstabbing his blind followers who quote his works without realizing that Dr Zakir Naik has made them follow ideology of Qadianis/ Ahmadiyyas.
e. Trying to prove Vedas and Puran contain revelations of Muhammad but also refusing to clear admit Vedas as revelations. Thus he has deliberately not made clear whether in reality Dr Zakir Naik is a Qadiyani or not

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It seems obvious that Dr Zakir Naik is actually a Qadiyani/Ahmadiyya in disguise trying to fool common Muslims. But why does he need to put this disguise? Is it because Ahmadiyyas are persecuted in all Muslim countries? Or is it that he is a spy with some other hidden agenda. Or perhaps, the way he claims to have discovered new researches in Quran that even Allah, Muhammad, Ali et al could not discover, he is laying foundation of his own Prophethood!

Only Dr Zakir Naik knows what is the real truth and what is his true mission. But his backstabbing has left his blind followers nowhere. Either they will have to admit to Ahmadiyya beliefs, which is the complete foundation of his writings and ‘research’ or regret their faith in Dr Zakir Naik being a Muslim.

And as per Islamic Criminal Law, that Dr Zakir Naik is such a great fan of, he himself can decide what should be the most appropriate punishment for him. Sharia says that a thief’s hands should be chopped off. Hadiths say that one who deserts his faith or community should be killed. This is time to test how sincere are Dr Zakir Naik and Muslims who have followed him so far, to the teachings of their own divine texts.

I am attaching the scan of the book with this post so that everyone can see Dr Zakir Naik’s fraud with his own people themselves. You can download original here.

You can view (not-so) original article(s) of Dr Zakir Naik at IRF website: http://www.irf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145&Itemid=128 to compare with the original.

 

 

 

 

To know more about Qadiyanis, please visit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophethood_%28Ahmadiyya%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim_Community

or any Qadiyani site for that matter.

Addendum:
————————————————————————————————

Here I provide comparison of work of Dr Zakir Naik and Maulana Vidyarthi, as explained by a Qadiyani Zahid Aziz.

1. Zakir Naik’s article gives various prophecies under four headings. Under the first heading (I) are three prophecies from the book Bhavishya Purana. The first of these is given as follows:

“A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj), after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins), offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, I make obeisance to thee. O Ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents.”


This is also the first prophecy in Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi’s book. It is identical with the quotation in Zakir Naik’s article. Except that in the Maulana’s book the word malecha is spelt as malechha, and his quotation has the following extra words at the end: “O Ye! The image of the Most Pious God, the biggest Lord, I am a slave to thee, take me as one lying on thy feet.

2. After quoting the prophecy, Zakir Naik’s article draws out six points from it. The Maulana, after quoting the prophecy, lists ten points. We find that Zakir Naik’s first three points are the same as the Maulana’s first three points, and his points (4), (5) and (6) are the same as numbers (10), (7) and (6) respectively of the Maulana. The wording is also very similar.

For example, point (3) in both begins with the words: Special mention is made of the companions of the Prophet”.

3. Following these six points, there are two further comments in Zakir Naik’s article. The first is in answer to the objection that Raja Bhoj lived in the 11th century C.E. The objection and its answer as given in this article are exactly as in the Maulana’s book, namely, that there was not just one Raja Bhoj. The article says:
The Egyptian Monarchs were called as Pharaoh and the Roman Kings were known as Caesar, similarly the Indian Rajas were given the title of Bhoj.”

while the Maulana’s book has:
Just as the Egyptian monarchs were known as Pharaohs and the Roman kings were called Kaisers, similarly, the Indian rajas were given the epithet of Bhoj

4. The second comment relates to the part of the prophecy about giving the promised one a bath in the Ganges, and the article says:
The Prophet did not physically take a bath in the Panchgavya and the water of Ganges. Since the water of Ganges is considered holy, taking bath in the Ganges is an idiom, which means washing away sins or immunity from all sorts of sins. Here the prophecy implies that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sinless, i.e. Maasoom

The same comment is found in the Maulana’s book in the following words:
“Another point which requires elucidation is the Prophet’s taking bath in ‘Panchgavya’ and the water of the Ganges. This did not, of course, actually happen as it was only a vision; so we give it the interpretation that the Prophet will be purged of and made immune from all sorts of sins.”

5. The second prophecy from the book Bhavishya Purana in Zakir Naik’s article is also the second prophecy in the Maulana’s chapter. It begins with the words:
The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country.

The wording of the entire prophecy (of which about one-tenth is given above) is identical in the article and the book.

6. Following the prophecy, Zakir Naik’s article makes ten points about it, while the Maulana’s book makes twelve points. Naik’s first two points are the same as the Maulana’s first two points. His 3rd to his 10th point are the same as the Maulana’s points (5) to (12), in the same order.

7. The third and final prophecy from the book Bhavishya Purana in Zakir Naik’s article begins as follows:
Corruption and persecution are found in seven sacred cities of Kashi, etc

In the Maulana’s book also, this is the next prophecy, and is given in almost the same words.

8. We now reach the second heading (II) in Zakir Naik’s article. Under this are given three prophecies from the Atharva Veda. In the Maulana’s book also, these are the prophecies that occur next.

Each and every point noted in the article about these prophecies is to be found in the Maulana’s book, in the same order. Below I list the chief aspects of these prophecies as mentioned in Zakir Naik’s article and place in parenthesis the page number in Muhammad in World Scriptures where the same is mentioned:
Kuntap, which is the name of some chapters of the Atharva Veda, stands for Bakkah, a name of Makkah.
The word Narashansah means ‘the praised one’ and refers to the Holy Prophet.
The Holy Prophet is prophesied as the camel-riding rishi.
He is called Mamah Rishi and given certain signs such as a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets, etc.
He is called Rebh, which means the same as the name ‘Ahmad’.
The battle of the Allies of the Holy Prophet’s time is described and the word karo refers to the Holy Prophet.
The conquest of Makka is prophesied and the Holy Prophet is termed as an abandhu, meaning a helpless man.

9. Coming now to the third heading (III) in Zakir Naik’s article, under it one prophecy is briefly mentioned, to the effect that the Sanskrit word sushrava in the Rig Veda applies to the Holy Prophet. The same is in the Maulana’s book.

10. The fourth and final heading in Zakir Naik’s article gives one prophecy, which is from the Sama Veda, and it is translated as follows:
Ahmed acquired from his Lord the knowledge of eternal law. I received light from him just as from the sun.
This prophecy is found in similar words in the Maulana’s book.

11. Zakir Naik’s article then makes three points about this prophecy. The first of these is that the word ‘Ahmad’ here has been read by previous translators not as a name but as Ahm at hi and therefore they translated the mantra as alone have acquired the real wisdom of my father”. These three points under this prophecy are found in the Maulana’s discussion.

12. At this point Zakir Naik’s article comes to an end — and so does the chapter ‘The Prophet in the Hindu Scriptures’ in Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi’s book.

It can be seen that the article by Zakir Naik is nothing at all more than a greatly compressed version of certain parts of the Maulana’s treatment of the subject, following exactly the same order as in the Maulana’s book.

No doubt a later author can make use of the work of an earlier one, but if he benefits substantially from it then integrity requires that he must acknowledge the source.

In this case, the later author has merely repeated the results of the earlier work without any contribution at all by himself, and with no mention of the earlier work.

Do Hindu scriptures contain any Divine revelations?

The research by the Maulana was based on the teaching of Islam that prophets from God had appeared among all nations before the Prophet Muhammad. Muslim scholars had generally limited this to the Israelite prophets and a few others.

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad revived and laid stress on this unique teaching and concluded from it that the great sacred persons of the Hindu religion must have been true prophets and its scriptures must have been Divine revelations originally. It was on the basis of this belief that the Maulana found prophecies about the Holy Prophet Muhammad in Hindu scriptures. This is why, in explaining the second prophecy given above, the Maulana writes:
The coming prophet will attest the truth of the Aryan faith.

However, Dr Zakir Naik has stated, in a different place, that the Vedas may not be revealed scriptures. Answering the question, whether we can consider the Vedas and the other Hindu Scriptures to be the revelations of God?, he replies:

There is no text in the Quran or Sahih Hadith mentioning the name of the revelation that was sent to India. Since the names of the Vedas or other Hindu scriptures are no where to be found in Quran and Sahih Hadith, one cannot say for sure that they were the revelations of God. They may be the revelation of God or may not be the revelation of God.

If nothing at all in them was revealed by God, then how did prophecies about the advent of the Holy Prophet come to be in these books? If they may not be revelations at all, then it is also possible that the quotations from them given by Dr Zakir Naik may not be prophecies about the Holy Prophet Muhammad revealed by God.

Interestingly, in his article Dr Naik has actually copied the Maulana’s statement above: The coming prophet will attest the truth of the Aryan faith, which means that the Holy Prophet confirmed that those scriptures were originally revealed by God. Perhaps Dr Naik did not realise that this contradicts his own belief expressed elsewhere.

This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/2971/naikexposed-hi/

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Comments

  1. says

    Whatever be the correct word, but can Kafir go to Heaven? What will happen of the 72 sects of islam who are not on path of truth. And who will decide who is on path of truth. If Allah will decide, why does he not decide and tell immediately. because once death comes, as per islam, there is no possibility to correct the blunders. And only one sect out of 73 will go to heaven. Thus a Qadiyani, Shia, Sunni, Bohra, Wahabi, Beralvi etc cannot be in heaven together.

      • Rahul says

        Namaste ANIS,
        From your language (your way of speaking ) you seems to be from one the most dirty area. Which book teach you all these things? Didn’t your parents teach you how to speak? I think Allah will put you in hell for this because you are using abusing word just to fight for own sect which is wrong. Does Quran or Hadit permit to abuse any person while debating ? If yes then reject such things from these book and if No then you will go to Hell. This article is mainly for exposing fraud of Dr. Zakir Naik (I don’t know which University has given this MBBS degree to him as far as I know his knowledge in this area is very less)
        If you don’t have further logic to refute this, accept this. I know you don’t have any logic because your books never permit logic but tells to believe blindly what one Slaughter (PBUH)told you.
        Brother my honest advise to you that don’t follow such things which are really not good for humanity. Just consider all good and righteous person in the universe as your brother and not only those called as Muslim or having external identification like Beared,Cap,Short Pyajama. These identification is become now identification of Terrorist. If you want to change this meaning behave like good human being with rest of the world.
        Satyamev Jayate …
        Peace be upon you…
        Take it as brother advise and read it by forgeting my identification (name,body etc). I am human being just like you namely called as Rahul just to distiguish among others ppl.

        • shahbaz says

          Whoever you are. I think you are in big misunderstanding. If dr zakir naik has copied the and read the book of maulana haque about Mention of profit muhammad (p.b.u.h) . But do you he is not saying only about Profit muhammad(p.b.u.h), but he is also saying about the concept of god in all religions and is giving the thousands of references from the scriptures. He says that worshiping Murti, photo, sun etc is prohibited in hindu scriptures and all that. Where from he has got his knowledge . You need not to think about that . If you thing he is saying wrong , You can check his quotations from your scriptures.
          And listen to me brother, Allah has given you oppertunity through Dr zakir Naik to know the truth and come to the religion of piece. But neither you are taking the benifit , You are trying to Declear him false and fruad. If there is mention of Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) in your scriptures then why are you not following his teachings.
          Now iam advicing you don”t waste your time in these activities You are doing. ” come to common terms that are between us and you” And that is —-THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND PROPHET MUHAMMAD(P.B.U.H) IS HIS MESSENGER.
          And another Misunderstanding of you is that Dr zakir naik gives the references of vedas about prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) to believe in him. But on the other hand he says that vedas is not the true word of god. Brother you are wrong or you have listened wrong. Dr zakir naik doesnot said this. What he said is that —-Vadas may be a word of god And he says Ram, May be a messenger. But he also says that god had given meny revalations to many messangers and these were for the particular people belonging to that time.
          If god wants to give only one revalation to only one messenger then why there is mention of the last and the final messenger prophet muhammad(p.b.u.h) in vedas.
          Brother try to understand Islam from the heart you will get answer answers.
          ALLAH says in holy quran–” WHO THO THOSE WHO WRITE THE BOOK WITH HIS OWN HANDS AND SAY THIS IS THE WORD OF GOD”

          AND PLZ BROTHER DON’T TRY TO SPOIL THE NAME OF DR ZAKIR NAIK.

          • shahbaz rafiq reshi says

            And i forgot to tell you that if i tell you to bow before me. Do you bow? Same is the meaning of NAMASKAR. When one says namaskar, he is saying that iam bowing (jukana) my head before you. And a muslim does not bow his head before anyone besides ALLAH.

            And brother if you want to know further more about Islam Visit to http://WWW.PEACETV.NET

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Namaste shahbaz rafiq reshi

            do you know the meaning of salla ? – prayer ,prostration, bowing.

            Whenever you say Muhammad( Sallahu Alayhi Wasallam ) – you are indeed saying that Alllah bowed (or would bow) down to Muhammad.

            Now tell me who is at a greater fault?
            the hindus who bow down to the all pervasive divinity (they don’t bow to the individual but the divinity that pervades him/her) OR the God of Islam who himself bows down to a dead man? :(

            Dhanyawad

          • Abubakar Adam says

            You have sin against almighty Allah, I wish he forgives you.
            I will advice that you dont talk about a religion you know nothing about. Find out for your self by reading the scriptures and knowning the words how they are used before castigating them.

          • roger says

            you have done sin against humanity by accepting unjust quranic allah as easwar. i will advice you to don’t defend a religion which is against the principles of humanity. Find out the truth of quranic god by yourself by reading the articles posted on this website before blabbering without authentic proofs.

            This might help you

            http://agniveer.com/3839/islam-the-religion-of-tauheed/

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Namaste Abubakr Adam (Sallahu Alayhi Wasallam )

            can you explain the meaning of SAW – Sallahu Alayhi Wasallam ?

            and do you know the meaning of sin?

            sin is – when you glorify a person who broke the traditions of even his generation to full his sensual desires (Aisha, Zainab)

            sin is- when you glorify a person who looted his own people’s caravan (Quraish caravan raids)

            sin is – when you blindly follow a person who made slavery an organized business

            sin is – when you hate your own ancestors (who were force converted to this religion) and culture in favor of the retarted culture of those who forced it upon them.

            there’s lot of sin in what you believe ..so stop lecturing me on sin sir

          • shafeeq says

            Arabic phrase salla Allah alaihi wa sallam, meaning “may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him.” It is a standard Muslim expression of love and respect for the Prophet

          • Vajra says

            Namaste shafeeq
            So may I write Salla Allahu Alaihi Wassallam with your name or my name, this is what Brother Indian Agnostic is interested in? :)

          • shafeeq says

            quran says “There is no compulsin in religion but truth stands out from error”. Discover the truth and truth shall free you.If anything is right then take it otherwise leave it and for your knowledge go to authentic sources.suppose say you want to study about hinduism then refer vedas,Islam refer quran and Hadees.GOD has not created us to fight each other.Whatever we do hear we have to answer hereafter.
            QURAN SAYS ABOUT GOD “THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM”(112:4)
            YAJURVEDA SAYS “NA TASYA PRATIMA ASTI”(32:3) -GOD IS IMAGELESS.

          • KalBhairav says

            @shafeeq:

            There is no compulsin in religion but truth stands out from error”

            Ok…sounds great. Hopefully since you dont want to compel people to believe in the same fairy tales that you do, could you please unequivocally condemn death penalty for apostasy under Shariah? Personally, as a Hindu I dont even have an opinion on the release from cycle of birth and death of a Muslim. Could you, as a Muslim, come out and state that despite my not believing in Mohammed rasool Allah, I am not destined for eternal hellfire?

          • Islam=non sense says

            That verse you said no compulsion in religion is abrogated by Quran 4.89

            “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them”

          • KalBhairav says

            While we are on the topic of abrogation, we might as well point out that There is no compulsion in religion… is in direct contradiction with Sahih-Al-Bukhari 9:57. :-( So, which one is it, practitioners of the religion of “peace”?

        • Raashid says

          If you think what you think is right then why don’t you directly debate directly with Dr. Zakir Naik instead of writing these blogs.

        • Zaki says

          Dear Brother Rahul,

          Peace be to you. I want to say, leave Dr. Zakir Naik. Nor Islam starts on him nor it ends to him. Don’t be bias. Read the book on Islam not by Muslims but by non Muslims and understand what they say about Islam. You abused Prophet Muhammad (SAWS). As Brother Anis abused someone you wrote so much to him which I will not write to you but leave it to you that you fit yourself to that same justification which you implied to Brother Anis. So please be broad minded and open hearted. There is no compulsion in Islam. If you like it accept it else as till date you have reject, continue to reject till he judgment your lord and my lord is made to us.

          Brother Agniveer has posed a question that a Kafir can go to heaven. So my logical reply is the heaven and earth is created by your lord and my lord the one and only one. We call him as Allah and any one can call him with any beautiful name which are his only attributes no one can have that attribute. So if someone is rejecting him by not following his command and teachings are disbeliever in Arabic are called as KAFIR. Now how it is possible that the creator will allow the beings those who rejected his faith in to enter on the heavens or (JANNAH in Arabic). So please be patience and wait for the hour to come and everything and act will be made clear to all of the doers good or bad. Our deed will be brought in front of us and the lord will make judgment and will rewards us or will put us to the hell fire.

          Another question posed by Brother Agniverr is about the sect, yes 73 sects Islam is not teaching to all human beings to divide them in to the sect, cast color creed or region and despite each other. Rather Islam teaches all of us to unit as we all are children of one pair of our parents Adam and Hawwa. The devil the cursed disobeyed the All Mighty Lord and was rejected by the Lord and will be put in the hell fire. His will wish he will take as many those who obey him by disobeying your true Lord to the HELL FIRE (JAHANNAM in Arabic). I cannot explain all the aspects here. And hence I request to my entire human brother to read and understand the truth which your Lord has revealed to you before the death takes over.
          Another question by Brother Angiver “If Allah will decide why does he not decide and tell immediately. Because once death comes, as per Islam, there is no possibility to correct the blunders.”So Brother Agniveer He has give you chance to correct yourself by giving you the right guidance and revelation and prophets. And here is the test. The lust of the world is one side and the WILL OF YOUR LORD not to get lost in this worldly lust. Now you chose and decide your destination. It is as if our Govt. wishes to give jobs all the citizens. But to get the job of honor we have to study and get the position. Just our Govt. we to be employed so with going to school, college and university government will not assign us any job of as an accountant or doctor or engineer and so on. So be logical. With you put your effort where your creator has give you the free will to chose and you want the best while make no effort to qualify for that.
          May Allah show all of us the right path to the true success.

        • shujauat hussain says

          Mr. whoever u r, i don’t know that what ever Dr. zakir Naik has done ALLAH knows better and u r doing this becoz u know he is telling truth every non-muslim fails infront of him. i hope so that u might b not knowing the name of ur relogion and one more thing if ever u have read vedas u myt have seen there these kind of words by auhor” chahrum dharm” sentence lyk this i don’t remember all this next tym i’ll tell u,this sentence is is 22 times written in this book, but i remember the meaning, it is: ” a mere maane walo , ik kitab aaye ge aasmaan sa us main ik sentence 22 bar hoga woh aakhri kitab hoge aur woh dharam sacha hoga” if u ever read the QURAN u will c there a sentence which is 22 times … so forgot all this come into reality if till u r not satified mail me at shuja.shu0000@gmail.com , i’ll make all things clear to u

        • Rehan says

          Hello sir/madam, with due respect I would like to ask u do u know what is the faith of a Muslim? If u know the qalima it means that “there is no god but Allah and Muhammed(s.a.w.) is his profet. So no Muslim follows any leader unless he is on the path Muhammed(s.a.w.) so following brother zakir blindly isn’t possible. As long as brother zakir follows quran and sahi hadith we follow him. And about brother zakir’s knowleged is concern, whatever source he got the knowledge from doesn’t really matter as long as it is not contradicting with the teaching of Quran and Muhammed(s.a.w). We Muslim do not follow islam blindly. Quran is the book of signs please read those signs and think about it. Inshaallah you will get the right path and the answer to your allegations on the Muslims. Till now I wasn’t defending brother zakir but now please tell me how do you know that the knowledge he shares with the world is for the fame? One more thing, today expertise any subject does it means that you cannot refer the matter or work of other and use it, if it is true or benifical? One more thing assume there is a company and the employees of that company wears the I.D card of that company. One of the employee robs a bank and get caught when he was wearing the I.D. Card of the company and then blames the company for the robbery without any proof, who should be held responsible? Hope you understand that Terrorists and a man with beard and short pyjamas has nothing to do with each other. Last but not the least I apologise on behalf of my brother Anis.

          • KrishnaIsTruth says

            Hello Respected Brothers/Sisters And Mr Rehan also,

            With due respect i also want to say something, It is good that Mr Zakir is very knowledgeable person and have full knowledge of Koran also. As Rehan said that zakir naik is not sharing his knowledge for fame but tell me why he is doing comparison between releigion. Because he wants to spread ISLAM in this country for giving wrong quotation from VEDAS. I checked all worng interpreation of Zakir naik and found he did very wrong work against HINDU’s. In sanskrit if you change one letter then you will get a wrong meaning and Zakir Naik did same. I should say “Zakir naik ne vedas ke sholak ke meaning ka Aarth ka Anarth ker diya”. We are hindus and we can not accept Koran as a holy book of Allah because there is no single versus in vedas or in Upnishad where the iswar name allah is mentioned. Only one book “Bhavisya Puran” where the muhhmad name is mentioned but zakir naik tell to all brothers only one versus worng meaning not whole chapter. Again Ram and Krishna was not prophet if someone create a prophecy for him then it is again a sin. RAM and Krishna is the avatar of Iswar. Do you know any prophet who show his full form of body having whole universe and said yes it is me…..I beleive no one only and only Sri Krishan the GOD……continue with my post after getting question

      • Tameem Ahmed says

        Assalam ali kum Bro,

        tell me are you a true Muslim are not……….?

        Because true muslim never answer in slang words……, if you dont like the comment then jus ignore it or try to correct them as the truthseeker doing, this is what Islam teaches……..

        pls dont continue this in future and insult anyone…

        Assalam alai kum

        • Vajra says

          Namaste Tameem Brother
          You seem to be knowledgeable and polite Muslim. Can you tell me Brother why Quran calls non believers worst of creatures?

          • yogi_raj says

            Bro Vajra:
            The Quranic verses are to be read as a bunch and never separately.
            Now, many of the verses were revealed to Mohammed during war, during oppression by non believers, persecution etc.
            During these times, the villain of the piece were non believers. So, they were labelled as some of the worst creatures. Thus, to someone cherry picking a verse, it would look as if “non believers were worst of creatures”.
            On the contrary, Mohammed kept many non muslims closed to him including his uncle who did not convert but was still his advisor.
            I hope this clears the air a bit.
            Regards.

          • Vajra says

            Namaste Yogi raj (Yog has been declared Haraam by Mullahs BTW ;) )

            1. Maulana Maududi makes it clear for whom the word “Kufra” of this Surah applies! He writes in Tafheem ul Quran for the Surah 98-

            “Here the word kufr (unbelief ) has been used in its WIDEST SENSE, which includes different forms of the unbelieving attitude. For example, some were unbelievers in the sense that they did not acknowledge Allah at all: some did acknowledge Allah but did not regard Him as the One and only God, but worshipped others as well, thinking they were associates in Divine Being or Divine attributes and powers in one way or the other; some acknowledged oneness of God but committed some kind of shirk as well; some acknowledged God but did not acknowledge His Prophets and the guidance brought by them; some acknowledged one particular Prophet and did not acknowledge another; ‘others rejected the Hereafter.”

            2. No war is associated with the entire Surah 98 :(

            3. So during that time the villain of the piece were non believers! Can I say the same for Muslims now (since behind almost every bomb blast and beheading of humans, Muslims are involved) that Muslims are worst of creatures?

            4. Can I know the name of Muhammad’s non Muslim uncle cum adviser? :)

            best regards

          • yogi_raj says

            Dear Vajra:

            Have you taken a Quran learning course?
            The basic requirement for doing so is to leave ALL the prejudices and learn the meaning of the words as Allah inspires you to do. That’s what I have done and that’s how I derive the meaning of the words and their contexts.

            May be Mr. Maudidi has his own way of interpretation and I have mine.
            You on the other hand have not taken any steps to learn the book and you are quoting from the third party sources.

            “So during that time the villain of the piece were non believers! Can I say the same for Muslims now (since behind almost every bomb blast and beheading of humans, Muslims are involved) that Muslims are worst of creatures?”

            I hope you are a learned person. Let’s not go too far in History.
            Let’s start few examples right her in India itself.

            1.Rajiv Gandhi killed by Muslims?
            2.Indira Gandhi killed by Muslims?
            3.Our revered Mahatma killed by Muslims?
            4.All the maoists are Muslims?
            5.Ajmer Shariff blasts’s mastermind were Muslims?
            6.Hyderabad blast were by Muslims?

            I will not insult your intelligence by elaborating further.

            I will not enter into any debate with you regarding Surah No:98 because debate can only take place between two person having first hand knowledge of the subject. In this case, you are only referring to third party sources.

            @IA:
            Where have you read Muhammed cursing his uncle to Hell?
            Hadith? Let me tell you this:
            Take it with pinch of salt.

            I believe only Quran to word of my Lord while Hadith was written by man(men). So, the authenticity of several Hadith(s) are in question.

            Regards.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Namaste Maulana @yogi_raj

            Where have you read Muhammed cursing his uncle to Hell? Hadith?

            Yes indeed!

            from Hadit Sahih Bukhari where two of muhammad’s companions (Sahabas) report Muhammad saying this about his uncle who protected him and raised him up: “Perhaps my intercession will be helpful to him on the Day of Resurrection so that he may be put in a shallow fire reaching only up to his ankles. His brain will boil from it.

            Let me tell you this: Take it with pinch of salt.

            thanks for the advise bro, but let me tell you this:

            I take whole of Islam and it’s text with a bag of salt already. I cant afford to respect these so called sahabas of the hadits.Unfortunately, rationality and humanity prohibits me from considering Muhammad as a role model from any angle

            I believe only Quran to word of my Lord while Hadith was written by man(men).

            Even quran was written by men and dictated by a man.It was collated by those very companions whose accounts you are dismissing!

            So, the authenticity of several Hadith(s) are in question.

            My friend, the authenticity of hadits is as much questionable as that of Quran.It’s another matter that you believe one and discard the other.

            best regards

          • shahbaz rafiq reshi says

            Assalam u alaikum ( May peace blessing and mercy of ALLAH(swt) be on all of You)
            I just want to tell you that why are you questioning common muslims about Islam? Are you trying to break there faith or you want to understand Islam and accept Islam? If you want to break their faith in Islam , It is useless job. And if you are trying to understand Islam and accept Islam Talk to the persons who are well known about Islam. A common muslim may does not know all about Islam! If you want to know about islam visit to http://www.irf.net
            or talk to maulanas.

          • Sameer says

            @shahbaz rafiq reshi your Maulanas himself has called Zakir Naik and his wahhabis as Dajjal and Shaitan and other thing is his ustad Tariq was crushed by PANDIT MAHENDRA PAL and he is running away Arya Samaj people.

            @shahbaz do you know PROPHET MOHAMMAD PROPHESIED ABOUT DAJJAL ZAKIR NAIK AND HIS NAJD SHAITAN MASTERS WAHHABIS IN SAHIH HADITHS AND OTHER HADITHS.

            Allah and Prophet Mohammad warned Muslims against Shaitan of Najd (Wahhabis) and its Stooges like Zakir Naik who will divide Ummah, who recite Quran but Quran will not go beyond their throat, who will kill or support killers of Muslim etc see below verses.

            Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: The Prophet (s)said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The People said, “And also on our NAJD.” He said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The people said, “O Allah’s Apostle! And also on our NAJD.” I think the third time the Prophet (s) said, “There (in NAJD) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan.”
            Sahi Bukhari (Book #88, Hadith #214)

            Allama Dahlan narrates an authentic Hadith in his book “Addarus Sunniah”, which he has quoted from Sihaah. The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said: “There will rise a group of people in the East who will recite the Holy Quran, but alas, the Quran will not go beyond their throat. This group will keep rising till the Day of Judgement and they will eventually rise with Dajjal.” “Their main symbol will be to sit in groups.” (Halqa) (from Bukhari Sharief, Vol. iii)

            http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/hadiths-on-najd-wahabism-31284/

            See the above Hadiths verses clearly refers to Wahabis and Zakir Naik

            Zakir Naik has divided the Ummah along the lines of Wahhabi, Sunni, Shias, Sufis and Ahmadiyas. He supported Bin Laden who killed many Muslims. Zakir Naik’s getup only shows that he follows Quran till throat below throat he wears Kufr western clothes and not following Sunnah clothes. Zakir Naik speaks hours and hours of lecture to wear Hijab and Sunnah clothing to woman and others but himself never wears Sunnah Clothing at Public. . Even DEOBANDIS ADVOCATES THIS TRUTH ABOUT WAHHABIS AND ZAKIR NAIK.

            http://deoband.8m.net/custom3.html

          • wellsaid says

            @SAMEER
            First know what is Dajjal, his motives, his appearances, his signs, time of appearances and then compare who according to the teachings of Quran and Hadees is Dajjal. Here is the detailed lecture on Dajjal and his emergence……….. and then match if the prophecies are coming true or not. Just by your saying that so & so is Dajjal will not become a dajjal. I wish you listen to all the episodes carefully.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS-6Sx2bgkI&feature=related

          • Sameer says

            @Wellsaid, what I have saying is said by your own Muslim Brothers about Wahabis and his fraud followers like Zakir Naik who follow Koran till throat who give hours and hours of lecture of Sunnah clothing and Hijab to Muslim woman and muslim men but himself never follow it.

            @Wellsaid there are different meaning of Dajjal one is imposter and cheater and I did not refer about “symbolic dajjal” of hadiths because many muslims have already given his identity as Wahabi Taliban Pashtun Commander Mullah Mohammad Omar “The One Eyed Devil” . If you remember Taliban was created with the support of American Jewish Lobby and their Pakistani Stooge Benazir Bhutto for some oil pipeline.

            The signs of Dajjal are exactly match with Mullah Umer .No one in the history ever match these sign

            Ibn Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). made a mention of Dajjil in the presence of the people and said: Allah is not one-eyed and behold that Dajjal is blind of the right eye and his eye would be like a floating grape.
            Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 7005

            1-Dajjal would have one eye … Mullah Umer has one eye only
            2-Dajjal would have problem in one leg –Mullah Umer has only one leg
            3-Dajjal will born in Khurasan -Mullah umer born in khurasan (area in afshanistan and Iran)
            4-Dajjal will claim as prophet then later God -Mullah wore the clothes of Prophet Mohammad and has claimed himself khalifa may be later he would claim other powers
            5-Dajjal would have fake hell and fake jannah ,his jinnah will be hell and his hell will be jannah —— Mullah Umer is makiing suicide bombers and claming that they will go to jannah (which is Haram in Islam ) actually is the hell .Mullah Umer Jannat is their so called shirat with who ever follow his shariat his life become hell .

            The Yahudis (Jews) of Isfahaan will be his main followers.

            Apart from having mainly Yahudi followers, he will have a great number of women followers as well.

            He will have with him fire and water, but in reality the fire will be cold water while that what appears to be cold water will in reality be a blazing fire.

            • Those who obey him will enter “his Jannat” while those who disobey him will enter “his Jahannam.”

            There will be a thick fingernail-like object in his left eye.

            The letters “Kaa” “Faa” “Raa” will appear on his forehead and will be deciphered by all Mu’mineen regardless of them being literate or not.

            • He will perform unusual feats.

            Finally Isa (A.S.) will descend from the heavens and pursue him and eventually kill him at present day Lydda (Baad Lud). Mullah Umer Signs

            • Mullah Umer has one eye.He has thick hair ,he claims that who ever blast himself will go to jannat actully he will go to jahannum.

            • Mullah Umer born just beside that area

            • Afghan history shows that afghans are belong to Bani Israel Tribes even jew claim that Afghans have jew roots.

            • Many Women also follow their philosiphy .Like happened in LAl Masjid and Sawat

            • Mullah Umer has one eye and one leg.He always hide his forehead .

            • Not yet seen Kafir sign .Mullah Umer always hide his face

            • Not yet seen.

            • Mullah Umer already clamed as Kahlifa.

            • There are several stories among taliban about his feats

            Check the site below which is describing the dajjal ,jew and afghan relation .pure jewish sites also claim that the aghanis are their roots and will follow their “Masaya” dajjal when he will appears.

            http://www.moshiach.com/features/tribes/pakistan.php

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother @yogi_raj

            you said : I believe only Quran to word of my Lord

            it would be interesting to learn from you the following :

            1. Quran 4:80 says “He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah: But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds). ”
            source:http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/004.qmt.html#004.080

            So my friend,please tell me how do you obey muhammad from the quran alone (minus the sunnah) ?

            2. what is the shahada according to you? (does it include Muhammad as the rasool? )

            3.do you belive in the concept of haajj and ramadan fast ? (it’s not mentioned in the quran)

            4. how many (and at what times) do you offer namaz and how do you perform the ritual? (theres no mention of the ritual nor the timings of prayer in the quran)

            5. how do explain kalala , riba etc. from the quran alone?

            thank you in advance

          • yogi_raj says

            The verse you have quoted is from third party sources. As I made it clear earlier too, please DON’T take any verse individually.
            The said verse was revealed during the time of mobilizing people for war.
            I hope this clear air somewhat.
            Kalala is a someone who leaves neither parents or child after his death. What’s so difficult to understand here?
            Riba is tricky. It means staying away from Interest based activities. If someone has , let’s say, Rs. 1Cr with him; if he deposits the money and lives his life based on yearly interest, it’s not allowed.
            Also, involving yourself in pawn broker type of business is also not allowed.
            There are few more minute clauses but that’s what they are. minor.
            If a Muslim is truly Muslim when he approaches oneness with his Lord, is honest, is truthful, is charitable, is praying regularly,performs pilgrimage..
            These are the basic requirements and fulfilling them are more difficult than something like keeping a beard, non riba , halal meat etc
            Being honest and truthful is not an easy job. Deriving strength from your Lord alone in times of crisis is not for everyone. So, if one masters these, then the other things pales in comparison. Sadly, most of Muslims have started giving more importance to the minor things and lost track of the major. But that’s not for me to judge. Just trying to give clear picture what a true Muslim is.
            If you are worried that Quran does not “define” certain terms, do you think Quran is a dictionary? There is a mention of Earth a lot without definition. So, what do you want me do. Reject Quran by saying why It did not define what Earth is? Why did it not ‘define’ Earth as third planet of Solar System?
            I’ll not insult your intelligence by elaborating further.

            As far as Mr. Bukhari is concerned, I personally don’t have much faith in Hadith by him( or by any other). I don’t like people with prejudiced opinion. Let’s leave it here.

            Now, you question the very authenticity of Quran Itself. Well, go ahead. It’s a book without doubt for ME and I don’t give a F$%^ about what you do or don’t as long as you don’t try to impose your ideology on me.

            The authenticity of Quran was questioned by better person then you earlier too. Many people say why if Allah is so powerful, why isn’t everyone a convert? Nice question. I have a very suitable verse from Quran itself.

            “Fertile land gives out fruits while barren land gives out useless vegetation even though the rain which falls on them is same”

            That’s what happens when you sincerely take up word for word Quran class. No interpretation, No lectures.
            I have done the same and I am technically educated person who can derive the meaning of the verse using my intellect and Quran is sufficient for me to find guidance.

            Regards.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Namaste @yogi_raj

            The verse you have quoted is from third party sources.

            what do you mean by third party sources? ..It’s straight from the Quran

            As I made it clear earlier too, please DON’T take any verse individually.The said verse was revealed during the time of mobilizing people for war.I hope this clear air somewhat.

            Even if you ignore this verse , there are dozens more (which have nothing do with war) which emphasize the same . sample these :

            Quran 3:31
            قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
            Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL

            Quran 3:32
            قُلْ أَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْكَافِرِينَ
            Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

            and some more … (that highlight the fate of those who reject the sunnah of the prophet )

            Quran 33:36
            وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْراً أَن يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ وَمَن يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالاً مُّبِيناً
            It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.

            Quran 33:57
            إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُؤْذُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ عَذَاباً مُّهِيناً
            Verily, those who annoy Allâh and His Messenger (SAW) Allâh has cursed them in this world, and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating torment.

            Quran 33:66
            يَوْمَ تُقَلَّبُ وُجُوهُهُمْ فِي النَّارِ يَقُولُونَ يَا لَيْتَنَا أَطَعْنَا اللَّهَ وَأَطَعْنَا الرَّسُولَا
            On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: “Oh, would that we had obeyed Allâh and obeyed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW).”

            Quran 33:71
            يُصْلِحْ لَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَمَن يُطِعْ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ فَازَ فَوْزاً عَظِيماً
            He will direct you to do righteous good deeds and will forgive you your sins.
            And whosoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger (SAW) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise).

            Kalala is a someone who leaves neither parents or child after his death. What’s so difficult to understand here?

            How do you know what it means? Does the Quran explain the meaning of these ‘special’ words [ Kalala, Riba] ? NO!

            what’s ironical is that not only the Quranites, even the sunnis are confused about the meaning of these injunctions/commands of the Quran.

            this account explains the predicament

            source:http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/069.sbt.html#007.069.493
            Sahil Bukhari
            Volume 7, Book 69, Number 493:
            Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
            ‘Umar delivered a sermon on the pulpit of Allah’s Apostle, saying, “Alcoholic drinks were prohibited by Divine Order, and these drinks used to be prepared from five things, i.e., grapes, dates, wheat, barley and honey. Alcoholic drink is that, that disturbs the mind.” ‘ Umar added, “I wish Allah’s Apostle had not left us before he had given us definite verdicts concerning three matters, i.e., how much a grandfather may inherit (of his grandson), the inheritance of Al-Kalala (the deceased person among whose heirs there is no father or son), and various types of Riba(1 ) (usury) .

            If a Muslim is truly Muslim when he approaches oneness with his Lord, is honest, is truthful, is charitable, is praying regularly,performs pilgrimage..These are the basic requirements and fulfilling them are more difficult than something like keeping a beard, non riba , halal meat etc Being honest and truthful is not an easy job. Deriving strength from your Lord alone in times of crisis is not for everyone. So, if one masters these, then the other things pales in comparison. Sadly, most of Muslims have started giving more importance to the minor things and lost track of the major. But that’s not for me to judge. Just trying to give clear picture what a true Muslim is.

            Beautiful personal thoughts indeed. but contrary to your assertion, these are not Islamic at all :(

            Quran 16:106″ Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion , his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty”

            In favorable situations any tom dick or harry can be truthful..it’s under compulsion that ones resolve for truthfulness is tested..and what does the God of Quran advises you to do? he asks the momin to LIE !

            so you see, you kafir views are unislamic (but let it be known that i respect these personal kafir views of yours )

            If you are worried that Quran does not “define” certain terms, do you think Quran is a dictionary? There is a mention of Earth a lot without definition. So, what do you want me do. Reject Quran by saying why It did not define what Earth is? Why did it not ‘define’ Earth as third planet of Solar System? I’ll not insult your intelligence by elaborating further.

            if you would have elaborated any further , you would have insulted your own intelligence instead.

            your intelligence suggests that a muslim born in tamil nadu or amazon would understand the meaning of kalala and riba by default, when even the arabs of Muhammad’s time did not understand these words?

            your intelligence suggests that all you need as a muslim is the quran alone, while many of its words are foreign even to arabs forget about non-arabs?

            what i asked you was your understanding of ‘specific’ words in Quran on which muslims since the inception of islam are confused about.

            BTW, who told you that the Quran does not talk about the earth? it talks about how Allah created earth first and then he created the universe and joined them together ..Quran boasts that it has everything explained in plain words

            Now, you question the very authenticity of Quran Itself. Well, go ahead. It’s a book without doubt for ME and I don’t give a F$%^ about what you do or don’t as long as you don’t try to impose your ideology on me.

            You are mistaken ..i am not forcing my ideology (or any ideology) on you ..i am assuming that we are trying to have a rational dialogue here to at least discard falsity and at best arrive at a better understanding of truth.

            if you are not interested , so be it :)

            The authenticity of Quran was questioned by better person then you earlier too. Many people say why if Allah is so powerful, why isn’t everyone a convert? Nice question. I have a very suitable verse from Quran itself.“Fertile land gives out fruits while barren land gives out useless vegetation even though the rain which falls on them is same”

            even five year old unbiased kids would find the Quran unauthentic based on the fact that there is not even a single copy of quran available since the time of the prophet and also the fact that it was compiled years after the death of the prophet from camel bones and memories of people.

            and the less said about the quranic verse you shared, the better. Allah lived in the 7th century arabia..he should have seen this 21st century ..where humans can convert barren lands into fertile lands.

            That’s what happens when you sincerely take up word for word Quran class. No interpretation, No lectures.I have done the same and I am technically educated person who can derive the meaning of the verse using my intellect and Quran is sufficient for me to find guidance.

            rest assured that i am as much if not more technically educated as you…and mind you bro , it does not take rocket science to discard the quran ..the numerous self contradictory vesres of the quran are sufficient to discard it

            best regards

          • Vajra says

            Namaste Yogi Raj

            ————Have you taken a Quran learning course?————-

            No! Please refute me logically as I did to Quran.

            ————–The basic requirement for doing …… words and their contexts.————-

            Have you done same for Vedas? If no, how could you reject Vedas? How could you know that Quran is best and Vedas are not?

            —————-May be Mr. Maudidi has his own way of interpretation and I have mine.
            You on the other hand have not taken any steps to learn the book and you are quoting from the third party sources.—————–

            For any non Arab, the only way to understand Quran is from third party source :( Allah says clearly that Quran is sent for Arabs in their language. May I know something about you? Are you Arab? Do you know Arabic? How do you get the context of verses if you dont believe in a third party source?

            ————I hope you are a learned person. Let’s not go too far in History.
            Let’s start few examples right her in India itself.

            1.Rajiv Gandhi killed by Muslims?
            2.Indira Gandhi killed by Muslims?
            3.Our revered Mahatma killed by Muslims?
            4.All the maoists are Muslims?
            5.Ajmer Shariff blasts’s mastermind were Muslims?
            6.Hyderabad blast were by Muslims?————-

            Killers of Rajiv Gandhi, Indira Gandhi and your revered Mahatma, maoists, do not take oaths of Vedas saying that such killings will give them Moksha :)

            But all Ajmal Qasab, Osama Bin Laden, Al Jawahiri, Baitullah Maisood, Fajalullah, Mullah Umar, Sallahuddin, Masood Azhar etc who are among the deadliest of the terrorists in the world take oath of Quran and Muhammad :( This is the difference

            Ajmer and Hyderabad blasts are still disputed. Even if the bombers are hindus, they have not been seen taking oath of Vedas.

            ————–I will not insult your intelligence by elaborating further.—————

            You can elaborate whatever you want! But its beyond your capacity to insult my intellect :) You can try it for sure

            —————I will not enter into any debate with you regarding Surah No:98 because debate can only take place between two person having first hand knowledge of the subject. In this case, you are only referring to third party sources.—————

            May I know that how do you confirm that Muhammad is messenger of Allah and Quran is the final word of Allah? How do you know that something is to be believed in as final word ? Can you tell me from “first party source” (Quran) that why do you call your “first party source” as Quran? :)

            BTW do you have first hand knowledge of Ajmer Sharif and Hyderabad blasts? If no, why did you raise these issues at all which contradict with your line- “debate can only take place between two person HAVING FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT”? If yes, you have something for which you should be interrogated by the police investigating the matter ;)

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @yogi raj

            On the contrary, Mohammed kept many non muslims closed to him including his uncle who did not convert but was still his advisor.

            That’s factualy incorrect.it was Muhammad’s uncle who took care of blasphemous Muhammad in hard times and not the other way round.

            Muhammad tried his best to convert his uncle to islam while he was on his deathbed.But his uncle refused. This irritated the ungrateful Muhammad so much that he later said to his followers that his uncle would be in hell and his head would boil of the heat

            in short , even if you are good and patronizing to the prophet of Islam , you will burn in hell.

            this incident is a BIG LESSON for all those idiots who believe that being good to bad people is a good idea at all

          • Vajra says

            Namaste Brother Indian Agnostic and Yogi Raj

            ————-On the contrary, Mohammed kept many non muslims closed to him including his uncle who did not convert but was still his advisor.————–

            In addition to this, Allah dedicated a whole Surah of Quran on this adviser uncle of Muhammad. Can you imagine Allah’s final and perfect revelation for whole mankind has one separate chapter dedicated to a Kafir and his wife!!! So you see Allah and Muhammad are so merciful :) We Kafirs always go after them for no reason

            Brother Yogi Raj needs to come down from his state of “Samadhi” (since he might be in this state all the time being Yogi RAJ) and look at Surah Lahab to explore more about mercy of Allah and Muhammad on the adviser Kafir ;)

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Vajra

            @yogi raj is not talking about abu lahab but Abu Talib , the uncle who raised Muhammad and protected him all his life only to be cursed to hell by the ungrateful Muhammad :(

          • Vajra says

            Namaste Brother Indian Agnostic
            Thanks for correcting me Brother. I got confused because both Abu Talib and Abu Lahab were his uncles and share first part of their names “Abu”!

            Brother am I right in saying that Muhammad was not so ungrateful since he cursed Abu Talib not to the severest hell ? :)

          • sam says

            hey evryone…
            i guess instead of quarrelling for who wrote what and weather dr. zakir naik is ryt or someone else….y dont we 1st think bout what philosophies are ryt and correct..???
            and not only thinking bout it….but actually embibing it in our lives…!!!
            we regularly hear wat dr. zakir naik and other ppl has to say bout islamic philosophies…. but how many of us actually start practising them in our lives…???
            the source of inspiration can come frm anywhere to anyone to talk about anything….myt be dr. zakir naik has copied all what he has written is copied frm smwhere or may b not….!!!
            but this is for all the fans of zakir naik and others as well…..why dont we first think bout genuinly embibing all what we like and get inspired from.
            because, people who ryt it, is not important. what important is…if we are REALLY taking it in our lives.!!!!

            thank you
            may god bless us all

          • Muslim says

            I do not have a reference in my mind where this is mentioned ‘bad creatures’. Almighty Allah created all creatures so that they should worship him and if the creatures he has created do not worship him but associate with him their own assumed gods like sun,cow, they cannot be considered as good but certainly bad.

    • Jahangir Khan says

      Asalamu Alaikum: the sect which will go to heaven will be those who will follow two things (as mentioned in hadith of Sahih Bukhari) (1) “kitabullah” (The Holy Quran) wa (2) “Sunnati” (The Hadith of Prophet Muhammad SAW). Brother Islam is the solution for Humanity as Islam means “Slam” which means Peace.

        • Tameem Ahmed says

          Assalam alai kum bro,

          could you kindly explain the meaning of “ENKISH”

          As for as my knowlegde there no such word, langauage, religion of this name, then how u tell ISLAM means I slam……….. just spletting a word Islam and creating new meaning for it cant make a sense, even i can do the same. so hope you’ll reply to my comment. may allah bless all of us.

          • Vajra says

            Brother Tameem Ahmed
            How will Allah bless those whose hearts have been sealed and eyes are veiled by none other than Allah?

            thanks

    • Bhavuk Tiwari says

      Khajeli Badbudaar Chut Ki Aulad Tera Aur RSS Togadiya Aur Narendra Modi Ka Ek Treatment Tumhari Gand Main RDX bharkar Aag Laga Di Jaye :-)

      • prakhar says

        abe behenchod Narendra Modi aane de sale..tu sab ki gand me rdx bhar bhar ke udayenge.. poore india me gujrat dohra denge..

    • Muslim says

      Kafir is a person who denies the truth so a kafir cannot go to jannah. All people who believe in Allah and do not associate with him other gods and who bear belief in the last prophet sal-lallahu-alaihe-wa-sallam shall go to jannah.

      • raj.hyd says

        quran to svayam ek jhuthi kitab hai !jo isko svikar n kare usko to satyavadi kaha jana chahiye ! jis tathakathit allah ke rasool v nabi bhejne ki taseer [gun]samapt ho jate ho usko allah hi kyo kaha jaye !

    • True Muslim says

      Sir thats why we are here to accept thar ALLAH is one and only and Muhammad(SAW) is his messenger…..this life is an exam if ALLAH decides now then nobody will go to hell thats why here we are preparing for hereafter one will pass and others will fail……. u talking about all these sects these r made now before they didn’t existed whoever believes in One ALLAH and His Messenger Muhammad (SAW) and practices Islam will InshAllah will go to jannah……

    • True Muslim says

      Mr Agniveer….
      This life is an examination where we prepare ourselves for the next life if ALLAH tells us now than everyone will start worshipping ALLAH and believing on HIM and the hell will be empty then….If you r in an exam then do u get the result before the exams??? U talking about the sects all these r made now before they didn’t existed whoever believes in ONE ALLAH and on HIS messenger Muhammad (SAW) and practices Islam will go to Jannah……..

    • Gulam says

      That one thing is decided by the Holy Quran.
      Y do u always create false proclaims like general public. I thought u will be some learned guys publishing some fancy stuff of urs.
      But u seriously disappointed me..
      Your question is which sect will lead to heaven.
      The answer is simple. The one which follows all the commandments given in Quran and following Sunnat of Muhammed (pbuh) and avoiding shirk lyk u are doing,
      now my question to u. Wat do u think abt u? Will u go to heaven?

  2. says

    Dear Brother,
    1. Zakir Bhai is copying word to word from Qadiyani sources. And he refuses to either accept the Qadiyani source or agree that he is Qadiyani. Is it not fraud. As per ethical norms, if one uses some previous research in so much exact detail, he should at the least provide reference to original research. Else it is considered a crime called plagiarism.

    2. There is nothing about his research in comparative religions that is separate from Qadiyani works, yet he refuses to accept or acknowledge the source. This is shamelessness.

    3. Despite he claiming to be a person of science, the scientific and logical arguments given by him are so stupid that they put scientific fraternity in shame. For example, he refers to researches by farmers and claims that those who eat peaceful animals are peaceful!

    • akbar says

      Assalamu alaikum,

      Dear Brother,

      If Dr. Zakeer is able to quote from any book either from kadyani, hindu or chritian, it dosnt mean is following that,

      he just providing a copmarative analysis and making clear to world and humanity that all should follow the one true relegion Islam

      please even if you also copy the material from Quran and hadith and tell your brothers and sisters your doing the thing which is approved by prophet

      ” that even if you know one Aya, forward it to others”

      please encourage those who actually calling others to the path of truth, whether they are copying the truth from any valid source if that would be varified as truth please except it else leave it.

      Thanks

      Assalamu alaikum

      • Indian Agnostic says

        Brother Akbar

        you are confusing between authenticity and truth

        what is quoted about Islam on this site is authentic information ..it does not make the quran true or good

        on the contrary, the verses and hadits show the inherent violence, irrationality and hatred of non-muslims in the New Quran ..and must be rejected by any human being.

        zakir naik MISQUOTES from scriptures because he just plagiarizes the stuff from qaiyaani sources

        hope that clarifies

        • says

          lol authentic information agnostic pretender why dont u just say ”im supporting my boss” nothing is authentic here not even the vedic verses these ppl quote
          these ppl insult dr. naik just becoz he shows the similarities, what these ppl had done if he exposed hinduism. all the authors of this site just copies frm anti islamic sites they know nothing thats y they are too scared to debate via email, and insists to debate here in comments so that they can delete the comments.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Bro @yeah me

            why don;t you see the divine purpose you and I are serving!

            you are doing a great service to hinduism by asking them to do away with the puranas and i am doing a great service to islam by asking you to do away with the quran and hadit

            i am an agnostic ..so i don’t hold any copyright on Truth ..it’s just that i am sensible enough to discard whatever is FALSE ..Islam is not only false but against humanity..that’s why i focus on it more

            FYI ..i don’t copy from anti-islamic sites ..i bet you would have learned a thing or two from my posts ;)

            and even if somebody quotes from anti-islamic sites ..what matters is if it’s authentic or logical or not ..and not the source per se

            why can’t u understand this simple logic !

    • ayan says

      Brother agni veer I think you don’t know the meaning of research for your kind information
      RE MEANS :-AGAIN ,ANEW,OVER AGAIN
      SEARCH :-TO EXAMINE CLOSELY AND CAREFULLY,TO TEST AND TRY,.
      AND DR ZAKIR NAIK DO ALL THOSE THINGS FROM 1000 OF VARIOUS RESOURCES MAY BE IF HE GET THIS DETAILS FROM ANY PERSON THAT’S NOT A MATTER MATTER IS THAT RESEARCH SHOULD BE USE IN RIGHT DIRECTION .FOR EXAMPLE YOU GO TO MARKET AND YOU PURCHASE VEGETABLE DID YOU ASK SELLER WHO IS A FARMER OF THIS VEGETABLE .DEFIANTLY SELLER WILL SAY WHY YOU WANT TO KNOW THIS AND YOU SAY BECAUSE IF MUSLIM FARMER GROW THIS VEGETABLE I WILL BECOME MUSLIM DEFIANTLY HE WILL SAY YOU ARE A INSANE PERSON SO PLEASE DON’T MAKE USE LESS Q WHICH DON’T HAVE PROPER SENCE MAY GOD HELP YOU MAY GOD HELP DR ZAKIR NAIK TO CONVINCE PEOPLE LIKE TO COME ON TRUE PATHWAY WHICH WILL TAKE YOU TO JANNA

      • ARYA XYZ says

        @ Ayan,

        Ayanji, If a seller sells bad quality of vegetables and a farmer who grows these, then definitely one asks Q in the market. Those sellers and the farmers are to be stopped and banned to enter the market, so that they cannot do wrong with the people.

        Read BBC news dated 18th June 2010 with title “An Indian Muslim preacher (Dr. Zakir Naik) has been banned from entering the UK for his “unacceptable behaviour”, the home secretary says”. Visit this website, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10349564.

        Agniveer and his team oppose such sellers. May Eshwar help you to choose true pathway.

        Dhanyawaad

        • Tameem Ahmed says

          Dear Agniveer,

          As far as banned on Dr Zakir Naik entering UK i agree with you but they FAILED.

          Today is a live Historic debate in UK @ 12.30 India…….

          can you explain to all his fans why the official of well developed country cant stop him entering their own Land.

          I bet you that you dont have answer for it…………

          Because almighty Allah open the path for his people.

          Love

          • Vajra says

            Brother Tameem Ahmed
            Can you explain to all of terrorist Zakir’s haters why the Babri Mosque was crushed under the feet of Kafir Hindus on Allah’s earth? Why could not Allah and his Mujahideen stop the MOSQUE from getting demolished?

            Do you know why?

            Because Allah has started taking favor of Kafirs

            Peace

      • Shihama says

        @EMMY: hei who r u sayng as foool…nd @ Vajra bro it is not that Allah is favouring kafirs….as a muslim i dont want 2 hurt or abuse anybody but u shuld be using some sense 2 think that how can Allah(S.A.W) can favour people who believe in others gods other than him ..that is stupidity…and for your kind information dont talk about any releigion without knowing about it…if u want to talk anything first take the Qu’ran and confirm ur message then post but dont waste time on posting coments here for timepass…

        • says

          Namaste Sister Shihama

          Welcome to the world of wisdom, hope you enjoy the change :)

          Do you know what your prophet has to say about your (women) intellect and status in religion?

    • Tanveer Ahmad says

      Dr. Zakir has explained each and everything logically and openly. You are simply wasting your time. Dr. Zakir has replied all these nonsense.

    • Gulam says

      So u are going to make a point against brother Zakir.
      OK, tats alright.
      Even Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) faced criticism.
      Nothing new in History being repeated.
      Haters gonna hate people. V should learn to ignore them and carry forward our journey else people lyk agniveer are gonna create mess in ur head soon or later.
      If Ahmed Deedat was still alive he would have surely given good replies to this agniveer.

  3. says

    More importantly, if indeed Vedas mention Muhammad, then Muhammad is nothing but a mass-murderer as per the meanings that Zakir Naik tries to extract from the mantras! They say that fraud has no legs!

    • Anubha Gaur says

      Can you please give refence..of what you said

      “Muhammad is nothing but a mass-murderer ”

      you hv wrongly interpreted his words…even i hv seen that video…he had mentioned battle of badra.
      in which he fought for truth …yes there were killings in the battle of badra….
      every religion teaches to stand against falsehood..nd to fight for truth..

      • says

        1. IRF in its website cites Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 127 verses 1-13 and Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 21 verse no 9 to prove that Muhammad is mentioned in Vedas. Now the mantras mean, and IRF admits, that Muhammad killed 60,000 odd enemies of Mecca. IRF claims that 60,000 was population of Mecca in Muhammad’s times.

        Thus Muhammad killed the entire population of Mecca including children and women. Thus IRF itself proclaims Muhammad as mass-murderer just to prove him in Vedas. Ask them and not us why he is mass-murderer.

        2. Every religion teaches to fight against and falsehood and for truth. The only problem with Islam is that they consider that only those who believe blindly on Muhammad, Quran and Allah are on path of truth and others are Kafirs who would burn in Hell forever. The verse of Sword clearly mentions that one can kill them even if they do not attack you.

        If indeed Islam of Zakir Naik is tolerant and human, let him proclaim that even those who do not worship Allah or believe in Muhammad or Quran but are good people, would go to Paradise and are not Kafirs.

        • Anubha Gaur says

          NOW WHAT IS THIS ?

          You Said:
          The verse of Sword clearly mentions that one can kill them even if they do not attack you.

          i m cross checking ur references….but i think you are misinterpreting everything….
          nd confusing me….I DON’T KNOW WHY…..
          being a hindu i always wantd to follow VEDAS…but the original Vedas are not
          available …..there are some verses in vedas also were wrong things are written against women….
          e.g
          At another placein Rig Veda it is written:
          “There cannot be any friendship with a women. Her heart is more cruel than heyna” – Rig Ved 10/95/15.

          there are many similar verses like this but i didn’t cross checked them…bcze i know its MANIPULATED…….i just cross cheked the above verse…..

          But I know that is not true…bcze our vedas are word of God…nd god can not write rubbbish things
          against women…..THAT VERSES ARE NOT TRUE….

          that is why i wnted to follow QURAN but that doesn’t mean i wil change my religion,,,
          bcoze every religion teaches same lessons

          I THOUGHT U WIL HELP ME….BUT U R CNFUSING ME…..
          I wil help myself…….
          Byee….THANKS……

          • Arya says

            @Anubha Gaur
            Sister, can you provide, which translation are you using? Do you know that Vedic words are “Yaugic”, and thus require the root of the word to get its meaning? Dont follow anyone’s translation, rather Rishis are right persons to translate the Mantra. Can you tell me, which Rishi has translated this mantra as per your given meaning?

            Please go through the article women in Vedas here http://agniveer.com/women-in-vedas/ and know the actual respect accorded to the women in Vedas.

          • vinod says

            Anubhaji…don’t listen anyone.Read yourself the bhavishya purana(only the one having neutral translation of sanskrit) and go through the verses mentioning about mohmmad.There is the story about mohammad.Morover do some research on kabbha and its connection with lord shiva.I don’t ask to believe in all these but these will be definitely helpful for your knowledge.(Mohammd has said to be the representative of demon gods in bhavishya purana’)

            This is kaliyuga and non vedic religion and beliefs will flourish in this era.Most of the philosophies will be polluted or will be product of mental speculation.That’s why many indian saints has exclusively proposed the ‘Bhakti yoga’ for this age.
            I don’t have time to write much nd believe me I can provide you all such mental speculation material to make you believe any conclusion.

            And one such speculation is that Arabas were far less advanced people than indian in ancient times that’s why knowledge of reincarnation, yoga etc were not given to them.As a student of class 1 can’t be taught a subject of class 10.Knowledge have been delivered according to time,place and circumstances and this is valid for all religion.

            And last thing read bhagvat gita.it is considered to be one of the most advanced piece of philosophy.Moreover all tradition of hindusim attest to it.

          • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

            @Anubha Gaur : Why dont you simpy by the Veda from vedicbooks.com and clear all your confusions. ?? rather than aksing people and getting More confused.

        • ayan says

          BROTHER AGNI VEER AGAIN I WILL SAY YOU ARE INTERPRATING THINGS IN WROUNG DIRECTION IN INDIA THERE ARE GOLDEN WORDS NEEM HAKIM KHATREY A JAAN IF YOU HAVE A ANY QUESTION THEN WHY DONT YOU ASK THESE Q OM YOU TUBE TO DR ZAKIR NAIQ ON ON CHAT SIDE OF IRF I KNOW YOU WILL NOT BECOSE YOU WILL GET EVERY ANS OF YOUR Q .YOU ARE AFRAID TO ADMIT THAT ISLAM IS TRUE RELIGION WHICH WILL TAKE YOU TO JANNA MAY GOD HELP YOU .CORE OF MY HEART I PRAY TO ALLAH HE SHOW YOU A TRUE PATHEWAY AMMEEN AYAN

          • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

            @ayan : Zakir Nain and IRF have been challenged multiple times by Arya Samaj and they have chikned out every time.. check for “Arya samaj challege zakir naik”

        • Tanveer Ahmad says

          Study Islam with open mind. Study Quran without any prejudice. Study history of Islam. Study life of Hazrat Muhammad Peace be upon him throughly. I hope truth will revealed before. Try to find where the truth is sincerely and i am sure you will find it. Your knowledge of history is so poor that i have sympathy with you.

          • says

            @Tanveer Ahmad

            Brother, this is the second time I am asking, have you read the article you are commenting on?

      • Arya says

        @Anubha Gaur
        So what is your concern? Same Muhammad has equated you with ass and pig as you are a woman!

        Muhammad said: Cut off your prayer when a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, or a woman passes in front you, but it will suffice if they pass in front of you at a distance of over a stone’s throw. (Abu Dawud Book #2, Hadith #0704)

        When you are so impure that prayers are cut off as soon as you appear, will not your praises to Muhammad be curse for him?

          • truthseeker says

            @ Arya, Anubha Gaur:
            Here is a detailed explanation:

            Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul prayers were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, “You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet.” {Bukhari :: Volume 1 :: Book 9 :: Hadith 493}
            Its plain enough that some people mentioned the things which, according to their understanding, annulled prayers and they mentioned “dog, donkey & woman”.
            But then Sayyidah Aisha (RA) rebuked them by saying “You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs” and then she clarifies that this not something taught by the Messenger of ALLAH (pbuh) as, she said; “By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed
            between him and the Qibla.”
            Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: “A woman, an ass and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.”
            {Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 1034}

            But even these Ahadith never mean that these things annul the prayers, it only means that they can divert ones attention, they disrupt the prayers.

            Imam Nawavi, a famous Scholar writes in his commentary to this hadith from Sahih Muslim;
            أَنَّ الْمُرَاد بِالْقَطْعِ نَقْص الصَّلَاة لِشُغْلِ الْقَلْب بِهَذِهِ الْأَشْيَاء

            “Here disruption only means to have a negative effect on the prayers by the way of taking attention…”

            All these things mentioned here can disrupt one’s attention. A Jew because of his particular appearance and the fact that they were having a row with Muslims then, seeing an adversary can obviously distract one’s attention. A pig or an ass can become a source of distraction
            because of their course and loud voice and bad smell, a magian because of his unusual appearance (see from the point of view of Arabs then). And a woman could distract because of her beauty while prayers need full time attention.

            This is enough to prove that its only about being a cause of distraction that women are mentioned with all these things. Its not that-God Forbid!!-some parallel is drawn here.
            Its not to degrade woman, read the following !!!
            Now its not degradation for the females but only the truth is mentioned that if a woman passes in front of a man, this can get his attention diverted and that will effect the quality & sincerity of ones prayers. These are mentioned together only because they can divert ones attention.

            See its just as if a person says;
            “Humans, dogs & donkeys are all living beings”, this does not mean that humans are considered equal or same as dogs & donkeys or some parallel is being drawn between all these. Or does it ??
            And this is said for the grown up women only not small kids for they cannot divert ones attention in that sense.
            Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: Qatadah said: I heard Jabir ibn Zayd who reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas; and Shu’bah reported the Prophet (peace be upon him) as saying: A menstruating (i.e. grown up) woman and a dog cut off the prayer.
            { Abu Dawud :: Book 2 : Hadith 703}

            Nothing annuls the Salah as such but these things can disrupt ones attention. Read the following Hadith;

            Narrated AbuSa’id al-Khudri:
            The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Nothing annuls prayer, but repulse as much as you can anyone who passes in front of you, for he is just a devil.
            {Abu Dawud :: Book 2 : Hadith 718}
            NOTE: Here the word ‘devil’ is used only in metaphorical sense that they become a source of diverting your attention from ALLAH.

            In the end I’ll only repeat a statement of Sayyidah Aisha from the very Hadith

            ” By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla.”

            HOPE ALL THIS WILL HELP UNDERSTAND !!

          • Anubha Gaur says

            IN UR ABOVE REFERNCE U HAVE NENTIONED IN BRACKET THE MEANING
            OF MENSTRUATING AS BEING GROWN UP ….LET ME CORRECT UR ENGLISH
            MENSTRUATING DOESNT MEAN GROWN UP….
            MOREOVER I ASKED REFERENCES FROM QURAN N NOT FROM HADITH….

            …..can you please giv reference from QURAN…
            I repeat REFERENCE from QURAN…were women are subjugated…..

            No HADITHS….i don’t believe in Hadiths….because if thats the case i can quote
            sveral verses manu smriti where women are being subjugated ….

            so giv references from QURAN….

          • Arya says

            @Anubha Gaur
            First of all I want to clarify that if you dont believe in hadiths, you cant not be a Muslim as per Zakir Naik and Darul uloom Deoband. Believing in Ahadith is another essential condition to be a Muslim in additon to believing in Quran. So you decide, what you want! Anyway let me show you some verses from Quran which you would not like to be implemented on yourself!

            1. Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter, nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving. [Qur’an 4:43]

            2. Men are in charge of, they have authority over, women, disciplining them and keeping them in check, because of that with which God has preferred the one over the other, that is, because God has given them the advantage over women, in knowledge, reason, authority and otherwise, and because of what they expend, on them [the women], of their property.…. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient…. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, and beat them. [Quran 4:34]

            3. “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.” [Qur'an (2:223)]

            4. “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”
            Quran [24:34]

            5. “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.” Quran [24:6]

            6.If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.” Quran [4:15]

            7. So if a husband divorces his wife, He cannot, after that, remarry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. [Quran, 2:230]

            8. There is no blame on you if ye divorce women before consummation or the fixation of their dower. [Quran, 2:236]

            9. Quran [4:3, 4:24, 4:25, 23:6, 33:50, 33:52, 70:30] allow Muslim men to use captive women to fulfill their sexual desires no matter they are already married.

            What more do you want? Please go through our articles on women on this site and see what Muhammad and Allah talk about women.

          • mj says

            u cannot trust all hadith. ONLY SAHIH ones. please research on it more..the internet is in ur finger tips. unlike ur hindu scriptures, hadiths had been carefully analysed based on chain of narrations, and some hadiths are marked as sahih (trustworthy) while others are NOT and are false.

          • truthseeker says

            @Anubha Gaur

            Thanks for correcting my English….Sister, the words menstruating is only used here to make a distinction between a grown up and a child.

          • Arya says

            @truthseeker
            So you mean that Abu Dawud is wrong! And where in Bukhari hadith, which you have given, is it written that this is not said by Muhammad? It rather proves that Muhammad used to contradict his own beliefs as he did in case of number of wives!

            And you yourself given proof from Sahih Muslim and told that only three things can divert one’s mind! Is it so? Cant an elephant or camel divert one’s mind? Is this only woman, ass or pig which will do so?

            In the end I’ll only repeat a statement of mine that Muhammad contradicted himself by ordering others not to pray while women pass in front of them but he himself used to pray while Aisha used to be in his bed with him.

            Brother truthseeker, come back to Vedic Dharm of your glorious ancestors.

          • truthseeker says

            @Arya,

            Brother, you are very new to Hadeeth sciences. Hadeeths are transmitted by human beings and hence, the narrators understanding and eloquence of transmitting may not be perfect. So, when you look at an issue, you bring forth all the authentic hadeeths regarding the argument and then arrive at a conclusion.

            You did not quote the full Hadeeth of Abu Dawud : This is the hadeeth. Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

            Book 2 : Hadith 704
            Ikrimah reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas, saying: I think the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone’s throw.

            Note the words Ikrimah says “I think….”.

            Regarding the number of wives, it was an exception to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
            Elephants were not common in Arabia. Camels do not distract as much as pig/ass. I have given the reasons. You are simply arguing over nothing…

            Anyways the comparison of women with dog/ass etc based on this is purely illogical….

            You are welcome to true monotheism and shun the false beliefs.

          • Arya says

            @truthseeker
            Brother, if you accept that hadeeth contain/may contain errors then why believing in those is necessary condition to become a Muslim as per Zakir NAik and Darul Uloom Deoband? Can you be a muslim without believing in hadiths?

            And if your eyes are closed, any Jew, woman, elephant, camel, dog, pig etc cant disturb you unless you are a cheater and open your eyes during prayers! And if eyes are kept open during prayers, everything including stone, christian, man, woman, kids etc will disturb. What is so special with Jews by the way? Can a Hindu or Christian pass in front of a Muslim during his prayers?

            Muhammad was an exception! What a great logic!!! I ask you, if Muhammad would have kept your ….. as sex slave and then would marry them, would you still say him an exception? (Please dont take it personal, I have full respect for your mother and sisters)

            And by your great exception logic, Islam does not teach Shirk but Muhammad is included in prayers because he was exception! People should not kill innocents but Muslims can do it in the name of Jihad because Islam is exception! People should not abuse women but Muslims can because Muslim males are exception! And this is why Islam is exceptional and everyone should accept it!

            Just think once carefully brother, who is Monotheist, me, who does not bow down to any stone/idol and does not include any person’s name in prayers, or you, who bows down to a stone Qaba and remembers a person Muhammad along with Allah in the prayers!

          • truthseeker says

            @ Arya,

            Read the fatwa carefully before commenting on the same. Are you blind or what? The fatwa talks about Saheeh hadeeths , NOT ALL hadeeths. Got it.

            Jews were Muslims enemy. So, its natural that attention gets diverted.

            Regarding sex slaves, it was not Islam that started it. Rather, Islam gave a practical solution to it. Moreover, I won’t go to fight a messenger of God. Try to think the situation 1400 years back.

            The next para is utter non-sense. No comments.

            Bowing down to Kaaba was debunked long back. You deleted my comments as well as Vik’s challenge in the other thread. Now, you are coming back with the same stupid logic.
            We don’t worship anyone other than Allah (swt). Agniveer has written “worshipping fire”. Now who is true monotheist.

          • Vik says

            @truthseeker

            brother, do not worry about us, in this discussion we are criticizing the islamic practice of bowing before kaaba which is still idol worship. In our Vedic Dharma, Eeshwar is OMNIPRESENT, this means Eeshwar is pervaded through fire as well. But in Islam, Allah is not omnipresent, and u bow down before the kaaba to worship him, now kaaba is a monument or stone, and anyone who bows down before a stone for WHATEVER reason is called idol worship. Now, that is the problem with ur religion, u are commiting two sins at the same time, u are doing shirk, since u should not bow down to anyone other than allah, but u bow down to kaaba, and u are doing idol worship as well when u associate kaaba in ur prayers. Brother, wake up, please do not ignore this, u know very well this is idol worship, brother u are in the same boat as hindus, budds, jains, christians and all others who do idol worship.

          • Arya says

            @truthseeker
            1. Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a Woman.” (Bukhari,V1B9N493)

            2. The Messenger of ‘Allah said: …y prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black Dog. When he was asked about the specialty of black dog, he said: The black dog is a devil. (Muslim, Book #004, Hadith #1032)

            These two hadith are from “Sahih” Ahadith and not from “Galat Ahadith”! Now what do you say?

            Can you tell me the speciality of black dog in terms of disturbing a Namaji as per your justification? Hadith says -”because black dog is a devil”! Prophet Muhammad did not point your logic of disturbance! Why?

            Regarding Jews, elephant, camel etc, you did not tell me, if eyes are closed, how can one’s mind get diverted?

            So Muslims want to rule the world based on books full of retired customs like sex slavery, loot, and Jihad, which were relevant 1400 years back and not now! And you wont go to fight messenger of Allah!!!
            Did I ask this? Can a person who kept sex slaves be called as a prophet? Can a person, who allows his men to rape the women of enemies be said as messenger of Allah? If this is the message, why dont you prefer to be without message?

            Everyone’s comments were deleted due to some technical problem I guess. You can see yourself, mine, Vik’s, SDC’s, everyone’s comments are gone! If you won that debate, you can do it again, cant you? And I asked you that we dont bow to any physical structure and you bow to Kaba! We dont remember anyone except Eeshvar during prayers unlike you, who remembers Muhammad along with Allah! Is not Vedic Eeshvar more Laasharik that Islamic Allah?

            “Agni” in Sanskrit means “enlightening”. If I talk about spiritual lightening, Agni means Eeshvar, and you can see this in “Nighantu”, the Vedic dictionary by Rishi Yaask. We dont worship any physical fire!

            I invite you to the original Dharm of your ancestors!

          • truthseeker says

            @ Vik,
            I had already explained very well how it does not fit to idol worship even citing possible scenarios and examples from history , hope you remember. By your association logic, tmrw you can also say that “Muslims worship prayer mats bcoz they use it in their prayers”. Arguing more and more over this only shows your weak understanding and showing a blind eye to the truth.

            @ Arya
            1. I had quoted the full hadith in my first post. It has the answer. Didn’t you see that?
            2. The gist of the reference here seems to be that a wild-looking dog, or one known to be dangerous, has the greatest potential for distracting attention. The black dog is a devil (evil jinn) either literally, i.e. a favored form for a devil to take among animals, or figuratively with respect to its negative aspects whatever these may be; and Allah knows best. Pls don’t ask me to prove scientifically that Jinns exist.
            Closing of eyes during prayers is considered ‘makrooh’ (disliked). Though it is permissible if there are distractions.
            ” Muslims want to rule the world. Did I say this? “…..Why are you bringing unnecessary statements into our discussion?
            The true message is slightly different. Rape is completely prohibited in Islam to the extent of capital punishment (be it on a slave). Manumission of slaves was made a righteous act. Encouraged good treatment to slaves and to consider them as brothers….What’s wrong in the above? I will discuss the issue of slavery in detail in a later post, Insha Allah. Let’s keep it on hold for now.

            Brother Arya, my purpose here is not to win arguments, but to learn. And, I do welcome constructive criticism, not meaningless association logic. You can see that I have appreciated brother Vik in one of his comments on animal killing.

            I do not wish to hurt anyone here, and if I hav done so unintentionally, pls accept my apologies.
            FYI..My ancestors were Adam (as) and Eve and they were Muslims.

          • Vik says

            @truthseeker

            good point brother, but again its not well. Even if I say u use prayer mats, the big difference between prayer mats and idols is that idolators constantly bow down to the same idol that is mostly fixed. For example, ignorant hindus do not move their idols each day and bow down before it, they leave it in one place, and same goes for muslims they leave the kaaba in one place. However, I have seen muslims remove the prayer mat after each namaaz, and they even change them from time to time. So, u can see here that ur logic doesnt work.

            Hypothetically, brother, even if I agree with u, then tell me one thing, are ignorant hindus, buddhists, jains idolators according to u????

            pls answer my question?

            thanks alot for appreciating me, u are one of the best muslims to whom I spoke to, otherwise many of them cant talk with out being abusive and profane, so I thank u for that.

            brother, as far as jins go, these are all illusions of our mind. U have no idea how powerful our mind is, infact our brain is the most powerful part of our body, it alone can do many things without the help of our other body parts

          • Arya says

            @truthseeker
            Brother, in first point you wrote-
            “Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: “A woman, an ass and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.”
            {Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 1034}

            But even these Ahadith never mean that these things annul the prayers, it only means that they can divert ones attention, they disrupt the prayers.”

            I ask you what does “disrupt” mean? Is not it cut off? And about first hadith from Bukhari, which you gave, you told that Aisha made it clear that Muhammad did not say this. But we see the same in Sahih Muslim, told by Muhammad.

            I request you to make it clear first what you believe. Do you think that black dog, ass, pig, jew, and women disrupt the prayers? If yes, then I have given you the counter logic in one of my replies above. If no, it goes against Sahih Muslim.

            Regarding ruling the world, I meant concept of Darul Islam and Darul Harb, which ignite Muslims to be greater in numbers everywhere and then establish Nizam e Mustafa like we saw in Spain, most of the Europe, Indian sub continent etc in past and in Kashmir recently where 5 Lakh Kashmiri hindus were compelled to flee from Valley.

            You would have known the story of Rehana, who was a wife of one of the Banu Qureza’s man. Her husband was beheaded along with 900 other men by Muslims and then was offered marriage proposal from Muhammad. She refused to do so. Muhammad then forcefully took her away opposite to her will and did sex the same night she was abducted. Is this not rape brother? She remained Muhammad’s sex slave till her death.

            Regarding ancestors, I meant your Vedic ancestry. Because, before your forefathers converted to Islam, they would certainly believe themselves as the descendant of Ram and Krishna and not of Adam and Eve. And if Adam and Eve were Muslims, even without believing in Muhammad and Quran, why cant I be a Muslim without believing in Muhammad and Quran? Can you tell me, when Allah prohibits the sexual relationships between brother and sister, how did the next generation of Adam and Eve come into existence?

            Anyway, I agree with brother Vik that you are among very few Muslim brothers who maintain decency in their language. I too admit that if you got hurt by any of my comments, it was not something which I wanted.

            May Eeshvar show us right path.

          • Proud to be A Kafir says

            @truthseeker

            Brother, cabn you explain as to why do muslims circumambulate the kaaba seven times as a ritual and also y do they kiss that black stone?

          • TOTAGOTO says

            In this part, I will be focusing on three events that define the nature of Islam’s foundations. At this stage, the Jews were becoming increasingly dissatisfied and angered at the deeds of the Muslims. The Jewish Tribes were hard working trades people, whose purpose in life was to earn a living through honest means and hard effort. They were perfectly content with the religion of their forefathers and had never anticipated that the man to whom they had given shelter so graciously, would turn into the power crazed monster who was now turning around to attack them. Mohammad was in the position to carry out his hidden ambitions, which became clear soon enough.

            With the utmost disregard for all human morality, ethics, or respect for human life, the Prophet of Islam systematically targeted and slaughtered the very Jews of Medinah who had helped him when everyone else in Arabia was kicking him like a dog. He was motivated by these primary reasons:

            1.His fanatic greed for all the wealth that had been created by the blood, sweat and toil of the Jews.
            2.His maniacal craving for power at any cost. The Jews were the biggest obstacle in his plan to subjugate all of Medinah, so they had to be removed, by any means possible.
            3.His fear of all other religions. Mohammad was a delusional Megalomaniac, meaning he believed that he was the Supreme Ruler of the world. Anything that threatened this sick fantasy of his, had to be exterminated. Since, the religion of the Jews rejected his pathetic claims to Divine rule, they were the targeted victims in Medinah, just as the Polytheistic Arabs had been his victims in Mecca.

            The incidents narrated below demonstrate the horrific depth of Mohammad’s atrocities. Keep in mind that Mohammad is the Model of Good Islamic behaviour and you will realise how Islam advocates genocide in the name of religion.

            8) Murder of a Jewish Elder from Khaybar
            Date: Late April 626 A.D.
            Place: The Jewish Oasis of Khyber
            Victims: Abu Rafi

            The Muslims who had murdered Kaab Ibn Al Ashraf the famous poet of the Banu-N-Nair (See earlier) were considered as heroes by Mohammad and his followers. Murderers were considered as ideal Muslims. A group of Muslims from the Khazraj Tribe decided to prove their loyalty to their Prophet by killing off a respectable member of the Jewish Community. Abu Rafi was an elderly man who had never done anything against Mohammad or the Muslims. He just happened to be the unfortunate target of Mohammad’s plot to terrorize the Jews. The Prophet wanted to send out a message to the Jews, which spelt out clearly that Mohammad was in control of their lives. The “expedition” to kill the poor old helpless man had the specific blessings of the “Merciful” Prophet. About Six of them broke into the Old man’s house in the middle of the night and slashed him to ribbons as he slept. The cowardly Muslims always assassinated people in this way, while the victim slept, obviously because they had neither the courage nor the strength to fight even a solitary, aged Jewish Man while he was awake. After their crime, the Muslims fled back home into the arms of their expectant Prophet. There was a fight among them as to who had actually killed Abu Rafi. At this, the Prophet smiled beatifically and started checking their swords. Finally, it was decided that the person who owned the sword which still had traces of food in it, was the winner. Apparently Abu Rafi had just finished his dinner before falling asleep and the sword had slashed through his stomach spilling its contents. Indeed how Benevolent was the Apostle of Peace!

            9) Massacre, Rape and Plunder of Banu-L-Mustaliq
            Date: December 626 A.D.
            Place: The well of Muraysi near Red Sea
            Victims: The Tribe of Banu-L-Mustaliq

            Mohammad attacked the Banu-L-Mustaliq because of their wealth. In a surprise raid, the Muslims drove them to the Sea. They slaughtered many members of the Banu-N-Mustaliq Tribe and looted away a booty of 2000 Camels, 5000 Sheep and 500 Women! 500 women were captured screaming and crying after they had watched their husbands and sons being slaughtered. The most beautiful captive was Juwayriyya, daughter of the chief of the Banu-L-Mustaliq. Mohammad snatched her to satisfy his own animal lust. The captured women were supposed to be returned by the Muslims upon payment of a ransom. But the night after the battle itself, Mohammad and his army raped each and every one of them. One of the men Abu Sa’id Khudri of Mohammad’s army reported :

            “We were lusting after women and chastity had become too hard for us, but we wanted to get the ransom money for our prisoners. So we wanted to use the “Azl” (Coitus Interruptus- where the man withdraws before ejaculating)…We asked the Prophet about it and he said:
            “You are not under any obligation to stop yourselves from doing it like that..” Later on the women and children were given for ransom to their envoys. They all went away to their country and not One wanted to stay although they had the choice..”

            So the Great Prophet of Peace told his men it was perfectly FINE to rape women as long as you didn’t ejaculate inside them (which made them pregnant). What supreme logic! Any human being with the slightest shred of morality has to be nauseated by this Man and the religion he preached. Mohammad, the supreme religious figurehead of Islam sanctions RAPE, pure and simple. Not only did the Muslims commit this horrifying crime, they decieved the Tribesmen into paying Ransom for their womenfolk, who only paid the money in a desperate attempt to save their women’s honor. To call such a Prophet and his followers the epitome of Evil is probably an understatement.

            10) Massacre of the Banu-Qurayza
            Date: April-May 627 A.D.
            Place: Medinah
            Victims: The Last Jewish Tribe left in Medinah The Banu-Qurayza.

            By this time, Mohammad had murdered or driven out all of the Jewish Tribes of Medinah, except the Banu Qurayza. It was time to eliminate this last thorn in his flesh. The Banu Qurayza had been reluctant in helping Mohammad against the Quraysh. Conveniently once again, Mohammad claimed that he had divine knowledge about a conspiracy by the Banu-Qurayza to kill him. He beseiged their fortress for Twenty-Five days. When the starving Tribe surrendered, Mohammad forced an old man from their own Tribe to pronounce Mohammad’s sentence. The sentence was death to every male member of the Tribe, Slavery for every woman and child and Plunder of all their property.

            The Prophet had an immense trench dug around the main market of Medinah. The men of the Banu Qurayza were rounded up & their hands twisted tightly behind them. Then one by one, they were shoved to the edge of the trench and forced to kneel. They were offered a last chance to convert to “The True Faith” and if they refused, had their heads chopped off by Ali the cruel executioneer. As soon as one head would roll off, the corpse would be kicked into the ditch, and so it went. By the time Dawn had colored the sky red in Medinah, hundreds of corpses piled up in a heap in a tangled cesspool of blood, hair and shreds of flesh. Despite the horrific end in front of their eyes, none of the Jews chose to convert to Islam and faced death valiantly. The blood of 900 innocent Jews stained Mohammad’s hands on that black day.

            Their only crime was that they chose to retain their fundamental human right, of choosing their own God and the religion of their ancestors. Hysterical women & children screamed as they watched their fathers, husbands & sons die. The majority of them were raped savagely and then bundled off to be sold as “used goods”. The Prophet had the husband of the Jewess Raihana Bint Amr hacked to pieces before her very eyes, hours after he had murdered her father. No doubt this was the Prophet’s perverted version of a wedding present, because after these atrocities he raped the mortified girl and tried to force her to convert to Islam. Muslim historians still describe the savage rape of Raihana Bint Amr as her “willing submission to Islam and wifehood to the Prophet”.

            Apparently according to them it is very natural to imagine that a woman who has just seen her husband, father, brothers and Tribe slaughtered violently before her very eyes, would CHOOSE to convert to the religion of the murderer and marry him! In actual fact Raihana REFUSED to convert to Islam and also refused to marry Mohammad the murderer of her family. He kept her as a lowly concubine all his life. So much for the “Apostle of Peace” and his unbounded RESPECT for women. Mohammad was nothing but a serial rapist, who acquired his victims by killing their families first.

            Allah as usual has provided yet another timeless Divine revelation which gives his Prophet the Right to rape and torture women of other religions.

            [an-Nisa' 4:24]
            “And all married women are forbidden unto
            you EXCEPT those captives whom your right
            hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for
            you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those
            mentioned, so that you seek them with your
            wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery…”

            In short Allah the All Merciful is saying “Hey Muslims, it’s a crime to go after married women, but IF they happen to be your captives (which obviously all the non-Muslim women were) feel free to indulge yourself in rape and sexual torture of them. “lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned” Allah is making it LEGAL for Muslims to go ahead and rape Non-Muslim women by Divine Law!

            One shudders to imagine what kind of minds invented such utterly sadistic and disgusting ideas.

            Mohammad justified all his crimes against the Jews with more of Allah’s revelations. Although the following Surahs were not revealed at the same time as the Massacre of Banu Quraizyah, they nevertheless give a general idea of the Prophet’s views on Jews and why it is perfectly fine to kill, loot and rape them.

            [al-Ma'idah 5:51]
            O you who believe! Take not the Jews and
            Christians for friends. They are friends one
            to another. He among you who taketh them
            for friends is one of them. Lo allah guideth
            not wrongdoing folk.

            [al-Ma'idah 5:64]
            The Jews say: “Allah’s hand is fettered.”
            It is THEIR hands that are fettered and
            they are ACCURSED for saying so. Nay,
            but both his (Allah’s) hands are spread in
            bounty. He bestoweth as he will. That which
            hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord
            is certain to increase the contumacy and belief
            of many of them, And We have cast among them
            (The Jews) Enmity and Hatred till the day of
            Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for
            war, Allah extinguishes it!

            The above verses clearly demonstrate the Muslim’s hatred of Jews as prescribed by their Prophet. They also expose the hollow claims of Muslims, about Islam being a peaceful religion that always co-existed with Judaism and Christanity. These historical events form the basis of the Islamic code of behaviour.

          • TOTAGOTO says

            Muhammad: A Rapist
            Muhammad allowed his men to rape the women captured in raids. However, after capturing the women, Muslims faced a dilemma. They wanted to have sex with them but also wanted to return them for ransom and therefore did not want to make them pregnant. Some of these women were already married. Their husbands had managed to escape when taken by surprise and were still alive. The raiders considered the possibility of coitus interruptus (withdrawing from intercourse prior to ejaculation). Unsure of the best course of action, they went to Muhammad for counsel. Bukhari reports:

            Abu Saeed said: “We went out with Allâh’s Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, ‘How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allâh’s Apostle who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, ‘It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.” [1]

            Notice that Muhammad does not forbid raping women captured in war. Instead, he indicates that when Allâh intends to create anything, nothing can prevent it. In other words, not even the absence of semen can prevent it. So Muhammad is telling his men that coitus interruptus would be futile and ill-advised because it would be an attempt to thwart the irresistible will of Allâh. Muhammad does not say a word against the forced insemination of these captive females. In fact, by criticizing coitus interruptus, in effect he supported forced insemination.

            In the Qur’an, Muhammad’s god made it legal to have intercourse with slave women, the so-called “right hand possessions,” even if they were married before their capture.[2]

            Juwairiya:

            Ibn Aun has narrated: “I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn ‘Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn ‘Umar was in that army.” Bukhari 3.46.717 (see also Muslim 019. 4292)

            Muhammad sent one of his companions; Bareeda bin Haseeb, to spy on the Bani al-Mustaliq and after assessing the situation he ordered his men to attack. Muslims came out of Madina on 2nd Shaban of 5 A.H. and encamped at Muraisa, a place at a distance of 9 marches from Medina.

            Juwairiya was one of the captives during the raid of Banu Mustaliq. When all the prisoners were made slaves and distributed among the victorious Muslim soldiers, Juwairiyah fell to the lot of Thabit bin Qais. She was the daughter of Haris, the leader of the clan.

            The Islamic site muslims.ws writes: “She was the daughter of the leader of the clan, and therefore, very much felt the discomfiture and disgrace of being made slave of an ordinary Muslim soldier. Therefore, she requested him to release her on payment of ransom. Thabit agreed to this, if she could pay him 9 Auqias of gold. Hazrat Juwairiyah had no ready money with her. She tried to raise this amount through contributions, and approached the Holy Prophet also in this connection. She said to him “0′ Prophet of Allah! I am the daughter of Al Haris bin Zarar, the Lord (chief) of his people. You know that it is by chance that our people have fallen captive and I have fallen to the share of Thabit bin Qais and have requested him to release me considering my status, but he has refused. Please do an act of kindness and save me from humiliation”. The Holy Prophet was moved and asked the captive woman if she would like a thing still better. She asked as to what was that thing. He said that he was ready to pay her ransom and marry her if she liked. She agreed to this proposal. So the Holy Prophet paid the amount of ransom and married her.”

            First he raids a population without warning because they were easy targets and wealthy. As usual he kills the unarmed able-bodied men, plunders their belongings, then enslaves the rest. The narrator says, “According to the prevailing practice all the prisoners were made slaves and distributed among the victorious Muslim soldiers.” Prevailing practice? Didn’t Muhammad come to show people the right way? Why should he follow the evil prevailing practices of a people whom he called ignorant? By doing so, he set the example and those evil practices became standard practices of the Muslims for ever.

            The narrator says that upon seeing Juwairiyah the Prophet was “moved”. Methinks that movement must have happened in his male organ because his heart seems to have remained cold and unmoved. Although Muslims call this marriage, I call it rape.

            Safiyah

            Safiyah was a beautiful 17 years old Jewish woman who was captured when Muhammad’s troops raided Kheibar. She was the daughter or Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Banu Nadir, a Jewish tribe of Medina , whom Muhammad had beheaded two years earlier along with the men of Banu Quriaza. The tribe of Banu Nadir had been already banished from Medina and their properties were confiscated.

            Safiyah had married to her cousin Kinana, who was a young Jewish leader of Kheibar. When Muhammad raided that fortress, he killed its unarmed men and captured the rest. A Jewish traitor, (reminds me of Noam Chomsky) to gain Muhammad’s favor and be spared from death, told him that Kinana was the treasurer of the town and that he used to hide the money in some ruins. Muhammad ordered Kinana to be tortured to reveal the whereabouts of the treasures and killed him.

            Then he asked the prettiest woman from amongst that captives to be brought to him. Ibn Ishaq writes: “The apostle occupied the Jewish forts one after the other, taking prisoners as he went. Among these were Safiya, the wife of Kinana, the Khaibar chief, and two female cousins: [sisters of Kinana] the apostle chose Safiya for himself. The other prisoners were distributed among the Muslims. Bilal brought Safiya to the apostle, and they passed the bodies of several Jews on the way. Safiya’s female companions lamented and strewed dust on their heads. When the apostle of Allâh observed this scene, he said, ‘Remove these she devils from me.’ But he ordered Safiya to remain, and threw his reda [cloak] over her. So the Muslims knew he had reserved her for his own. The apostle reprimanded Bilal, saying, ‘Hast thou lost all feelings of mercy, to make women pass by the corpses of their husbands?’”

            Safiyah was taken to Muhammad’s tent. Muhammad wanted to have sex with her on that very night, only hours after torturing to death her husband. She resisted his advances. That night Abu Ayyub al-Ansari guarded the tent of Muhammad. When, in the early dawn, Muhammad saw Abu Ayyub strolling up and down, he asked him what he meant by this sentry-go; he replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, I was really afraid for you on her account”. (Ibn Ishaq, p. 766)

            The next day Muhammad covered Safiyah with his mantle, an act signifying that she is now his. Safiyah was groomed and made-up for Muhammad by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik and was taken to Muhammad who married her in a mock marriage ceremony and raped her that night. Muslims call this marriage. I call that rape. I am certain not many young women would like to jump into bed with an old man who happens to be the murderer of their father and husband and many other relatives. That poor woman had no choice; therefore that marriage was nothing but a mockery of this sacred institution. At that time Muhammad was close to sixty years old.

            Rayhanah

            Another victim of Muhammad was Rayhana, a 15 year old girl from the tribe of Banu Quraiza. Muhammad massacred all the men of that tribe. Then women were brought to him to pick and he chose Rayhana. Rayhana never married Muhammad and unlike Juwairiyah and Safiyah never feigned being a Muslim to have an easier life. She preferred to remain a sex slave rather the wife of the murderer of her father, brothers and uncles. .

            ——————————————————————————–

            [1] Bukhari, Volume 5, Book59, Number 459. Many other canonical hadiths recount how Muhammad approved intercourse with slave women, but said coitus interruptus was unnecessary because if Allâh willed someone to be born, that soul would be born regardless of coitus interruptus. See the following:

            Bukhari 3.34.432: “Narrated Abu Saeed Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allâh’s Apostle he said, “O Allâh’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?” The Prophet said, “Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allâh has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.”

            Sahih Muslim is another source considered factual and accurate by virtually all Muslims. Here is Sahih Muslim 8.3381: “Allâh’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about ‘azl, (coitus interruptus) whereupon he said: The child does not come from all the liquid (semen) and when Allâh intends to create anything nothing can prevent it (from coming into existence).”

            Muslims also consider Abu Dawood highly accurate and factual. Here is Abu Dawood, 29.29.32.100: “Yahya related to me from Malik from Humayd ibn Qays al-Makki that a man called Dhafif said that Ibn Abbas was asked about coitus interruptus. He called a slave-girl of his and said, ‘Tell them.’ She was embarrassed. He said, ‘It is alright, and I do it myself.’ Malik said, ‘A man does not practise coitus interruptus with a free woman unless she gives her permission. There is no harm in practicing coitus interruptus with a slave-girl without her permission. Someone who has someone else’s slave-girl as a wife does not practice coitus interruptus with her unless her people give him permission.’”

            See also Bukhari 3.46.718, 5.59.459, 7.62.135, 7.62.136, 7.62.137, 8.77.600, 9.93.506 Sahih Muslim 8.3383, 8.3388, 8.3376, 8.3377, and several more.

            [2] Qur’an, 4:24: “Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allâh ordained (Prohibitions) against you.”
            Qur’an, 33:50): “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allâh has assigned to thee.”
            Qur’an, 4:3: “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.”

      • भगवान सिंह सुगरा says

        @Anubha Gaur….

        dear first lie is that Muhhamad has been mentioned in Veda… Zakir is making fool of people by wrong translations of Suktas in Veda… there are several videos posted on youtube by Hindu scholars, pandits, brahmans… go and search them and you will find your answer.

        2nd: Zakir says only the follower of Islam will go to heaven…. then why you are worried… and what is the problem….. keep following Isam.. because we Hindu wont meet you after death at all… LOL

        check the videos babe… and dnt cry for Zakir.. may allah forgive Zakir for spreading hatred in mankind… he is a super idiot who fools poor muslims by his english comm skills… LOL

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MU33qvstwI

  4. says

    Dear brother! The confusion comes because life is short and each sect claims to be the right sect. Just consider that Barelvis gave fatwa against Zakir Naik and Qadiyanis curse him to first person to go to Hell. Some believe that non-Muslims will also enter Heaven. others claim that only those who do not question Quran in any manner and blindly follow it alone will achieve Heaven.

    I would rather not scare anyone with fear of Hell or lure them with dreams of Heaven. May everyone introspect and follow their own conscience. May we enter into dialogues to discuss truth and help each other. But may we be tolerant of each other and love each other as members of same family. I would rather forsake my own Heaven for my family members. let this be the spirit. Bulk of Muslims I meet show this tolerance and openness but few zealots spread hatred. I am not sure I will never have dialogue with Zakir Bhai, because he chooses his opponents very tactfully. But in process, if we can get together tolerant people who put humanity first, the job is done. I am sure you are with me on this mission.

    • Waqas Younas says

      as far as your name is concern it seems you belong to Hinduism there for i believe you don't know much about Islam. All sects believe the in Quran and 6 books of Hadith. There are differences in terms of understanding. As a muslim, one has to only follow those teachings . If a muslin wants to go to heaven and wants Allah to be happy with him/her, He/She only needs to follow simple steps and that's it and that's what every sect(excluding Ahmadiya kafir) say that
      Believe in the oneness of Allah and his glorious book Quran
      Offering Prayer 5 times a day
      Believe in all prophets
      Believe Muhammad(SAW) to be the final messenger of Allah
      Give Zakat (if a person is rich enough) some conditions apply you can easily find those conditions in any means in any islamic website .
      Perform Hajj (only mendtory when a person can afford to go there )

      If a person only follow these steps of Islam, he can surely get Allah's happiness.
      no where in a hadith or in a verse is Quran written that in order to go to Janna you need to barelve, shia, Wahabi or etc. All sects (excluding qadiyani kafir) believe in these steps. i would guarantee you on muslim will disagree with my steps.

      As far As Hadith's are concern, there are difference of opinions but there are hundreds and thousand s of Hadith's where all sects do agree. Just follow those and thats it. A normal muslim has nothing to do extra.

      I am a great admirer of Dr Zakir Naik. He has even talked to those doctors and biologists who thought that there were scientific errors in Quran. He has given them big shut up. even Sri ravi shankar could not talk much in front of him. The book ravi wrote common things in Islam and hinduism i may be giving wrong name Ravi himself has asked people in public not to buy that book because it contains lot off errors. But Dr Zakir Naik has never ever published a book where he had to ask people not to buy that book after its published and being sold in the market.

      If you want we can continue with this debate no problem

      • vik says

        @Waqas

        Respected Brother, sure, lets continue this debate, its really a good idea to help u find out the truth about GOD. As far as ravi shankar goes, if ravi shankar wanted, he could have shut zakir up, but ravi shankar is a peacfull person. If he had disagreed with Zakir, then it would have led to riots and fights within the stadium! As u can rmeember people were already angry with Shankar for making a book full of errors but with good intentions to unite hindus muslims. On contrary, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is not a Vedic scholar, he is more known for yoga and philosophical advices. There are many people in the world who claim to be Vedic experts, but the true Vedic experts are Arya Samajis who are known to dedicate their lives to Vedas. That is why unforturnetly all the Vedic translations u see out there are written by western scholars who have misinterpreted all verses. So people like zakir or others read those and come attack hindus telling them about errors and contradictions and Now another lie, of prophet mohammad being prophecised in them. Zakir Naik has never debated anyone from arya samaj or anyone with strong Vedic background so that is why he is freely saying what he wants.

        • vik says

          @Waqas

          Respected Brother, if we want to preach the truth and we are already convinced that only the Vedas are the ultimate truth. On request, I can give a good talk on comparisons of the Quran and Vedas, so u can decide for urself and se which one is more authentic. We challanged Zakir many times for a debate, but he refused. Our brothers even arranged a large crowd, but still no reply from zakir. But our first intention is to educate every hindu and non hindu about the Vedas, because sadly even hindus today do not know the great treasure hidden in Vedas, so that is why they easily fall under the traps of cults like zakir naik. Once every hindu is educated on Vedas, no zakir naik lecture or speech will have affect and all of us can easily shut him up. As u can see, Zakir Naik has been rebuted on this site in all his false misinterpretations of Vedic verses. SO, ever since, Zakir has not had a debate with a real Vedic scholar, otherwise his lies would have been exposed in public.

          • vik says

            @Waqas

            Respected Brother,

            Zakir Naik is a fraud, bigtime fanatic, he plagiarized everything from a pakistani ahmedi muslim named Dr. Haq. Go read Dr Haq's book(which is also wrong based on Vedic misinterpretations) and zakir's arguments are identical. He is not only misleading hindus, but also muslims. Some muslims even issued a fatwa against him. Brother, I can show u proofs that we challenged zakir naik for debates, but he refused. Eventually, in the future we will go to media or better, debate zakir naik, but the truth is he is wrong and only wrong about Vedas

          • Waqas says

            @ vik
            Respected Bro i am sorry to say but you have nothin further left to say. by saying fraud, big time fanatic and other words i am not going to get convinced. By saying this you yourself can only feel happy about it for some time. I know that i even told u that i ve seen muslims in india and pakistan protesting against him but not any hindu. There are more than i belive 60 to 70 crores hindus in India in those 60 to 70 crore people you don't even have 60 to 70 people who can challenge zakir naik about his wrong beliefs of Vedas. its been 4 to 5 years or may be more since he is saying things about Vedas You dont even have a ONE person or one arya samaj in 60 to 70 crore people who has a dare to challenge Dr Zakir naik on media . then i believe hindus should start believing what Dr Zakir Says about Hinduism. I think VIK we have nothing left to continue on this debate. i would be looking forward to that day when some Hindu scholar or an arya samaj would challenge dr Zakir Naik about this Issue .
            It was a nice talking to you , i believe until unless it proves that Dr zakir naik saying wrong about Hinduism you should remove this page now.
            If you want to continue this debate or you want to keep on saying bad things about Zakir you can do that too but it would only show your religious weaknesses or your arya samaj's weaknesses.
            Take care Bro May Allah bring you on a right Path
            Allah hafiz

          • says

            1. Ravi Shankar did not come for debate in first place. he was assuming that the event was about exploring commonalities between Islam and Hinduism. Let us not discuss Ravi Shankar here. Let us discuss facts.

            2. Zakir Naik has been officially challenged for debate on several occasions. Kindly refer the posts and search on google as well. Even the text of conversation with IRF is provided.

            3. TV is not enough. Do not worry, soon every person on street would be capable of tackling frauds like Zakir Naik and Osama Bin Laden. The goal of this site is to work towards that.

            4. We do suffer with a sickular mindset that plagues India and forces its leaders to do minority appeasement. And that is why we suffer from a pro-minority media. But truth alone wins.

            5. Zakir has access to terrorism funds, and falsehood demands wide media glitz. Truth however is unbeatable. Instead of guiding us on how we should do marketing, let us debate the facts. By your logic, theory of relativity should also be false because it is not broadcasted in media and lakhs do not flock to attend lectures of physicists!

            But of course frauds like Zakir can counter truth only by fraud marketing, and not by debates.

          • Waqas says

            @ vik

            Ok since you could not defend at all for the comments you said about Dr Zakir Naik you have started disrespecting Quran and since if you see our previous comments our debate topic was different any how since you have brought Quran in our debate becoz you dont have anything else to say i am ready to talk about that too. Preaching a religion is not a bad thing over here you are criticizing Quran and saying Vedas are the books of God. you are preaching here too. When Gandhi’s own son accepted Islam why his mother forced him to join his previous religion and when he did every one appreciated because you guys thought that he was back on the right path. We do the same thing too. We preach Islam we dont force people to accept Islam. Muslims have ruled India for more than 300 years and ruled Spain for 800 years if we might have forced people to accept Islam we could that but we did not. Even at that there were more Hindu’s then Muslims and still there are more Hindu’s then Muslims. Coming to your second point about Killing animals. Allah has created animals for Human beings some are for eat , some for travel purposes and so on . If Slaughtering animal is bad then killing plants is bad too. Brother ask any botanists any, even ask any Hindu botanists or search it on the internet, even plants take breath, discharge gases, they eat, they grow, so killing them should be prohibited too. what would you all eat then. Your one cast Brahman only does not eat meat, all three other sects of Hinduism do eat meat. you even Hindus are not sure what to do at least We all muslims agree on what to eat and what not.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            brother, Waqas, dont judge religions by the actions of people. Here, we look at quran, not muslims, and we look at Vedas, not hindus. I hope I made myself clear. Now, many hindus do not live by the Vedas 100%. So, today hinduism is the distorted form of the Vedic Dharma due to the influence of muslims, christians, buddishts,etc. The reality is, moghals who were bad retarded fanatics such aurengazib tried there best to convert hindus to islam, but our rajput brothers fought back and sent moghals packing. That is why rajputs are known as the bravest indians, and we mashed ur moghal empire like mashed potatoes. ON the other hand, some moghals were nice and inspired brotherhood amongst hindus and muslims. As far as plants go, Waqas, Vedas prohibit us to kill animals and humans since these are the only species that have souls. Plants and bacteria, virus, etc, do not have any souls that makes them feel, “i am this bacteria”, or “i am this plant”. The reason many scientists classify them as living is because they have energy exchange cycles taking place inside them. They exert ethylene and other chemicals to expand or contract. So, due to their actions, the sensors see them reacting to this stimulus. Why dont u read books on plants and their life, and biology. So tell me, what other reason u can tell me to justify ur meat eating habits?

          • Waqas says

            @ vik
            Do not give me this stupid logic since plant cant feel so you can kill then. there are some plants who eats flies too. That means you can kill any human being who cant feel the pain and would that be ok?? Stupid logic . We do not eat every animal we eat which we are allowed to eat. Lion, tiger cant eat grass at all they dont have a stomach to digest grass at all. They can only eat meat and thats how their teeth are designed, they dont have even a single straight teeth. Cows, goats etc can only eat grass and plant, they cant digest meat at all and thats why their teeth are straight and they dont have any teeth like lion and that is a proven. If god does not want us to eat meat he could ve given us a stomach which cant digest meat at all but he also gives us both types of teeth too.
            Rajputs mashed mughals like patatoes hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
            Brother go through with your history again i know you are ashamed of your elders but thats the reality. Mughals ruled you and then british ruled us and now for last 60 years you are ruling yourself only dont worry inshah Allah Muslims will rule India again if not us then China would definitely rule you guys.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas,

            well many vegetables we eat, we pluck without killing the plant. For example, if we eat apples, we dont kill the tree.

            Tell me one thing, our system is designed to digest human flesh, does it mean we start eating humans tooo?

            Listen many history books have been changed or adulterated so no one know the truth. But its a fact that we rajputs killed many moghals and their solders and they killed a few quantity of us tooo. Im not being biased here. All hindus and later on sikhs (ex hindus) battled moghals till their end.

            Waqas u said ” worry inshah Allah Muslims will rule India again if not us then China would definitely rule you guys”

            By saying this, u have shown me how low of a character u are, after all a follower of the quran, so ur bound to be a fanatic. We hindus dont even think of conquering anyones land and u muslims lay ur lustfull unethical eyes on our lands. Guess what, even if u or anyone else, especially u, we will cut u slaughter u in same fashion as ur halal meat, and transport ur flesh to saudi arabia where it will be donated to charity. And have u forgotten, the wars of 1971 and 1999 where indians kicked pakistans ass so bad that they were sent back to pakistan crying. Go look at ur history. If we hindus want, we can take over ur pakistan, but we are not lustful as u guys. We have standards. We would have done so, in 1999 kargil, but ur musharaf saw ur ass being kicked so bad that he got scared so he called u back home. As far as china is concerned, they are no threat to us, all chinese weapons operate on Russian software and Russia is our friend, so chinese wont have any impact on us.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            again stupid logic, i asked you to consult with Botanist , plants does feel pain too. By plucking vegetables, don’t you think they don’t feel pain. You are giving the example, if we cut the hands of man eat them, its ok because we did not kill the human being. LOL do not give me these stupid logic’s, coming back to in religious view thanks God you do believe in Mahabhartya here i tell you .
            Manusmriti Chapter 5 verse 30
            “IF you eat that is meant for eating, you are not doing a sin because God has created some to eat and some to be eaten”. Verse 31 If you kill the animal in sacrifice, you are not doing a sin because God has created some animals for sacrifice”
            Take another proof
            Mahabharata Anushasna Purva Chapter 88
            Yudishter elder brother of Pandav , He asked Bhishma ” What theme should we give in Pooja so that our ancestors will be satisfied” Bhishama replied If you give Hubs and shrubs the ancestors will be satisfied for one month, if you give fish for two months, if you give mutton for three months, if you give HARE four months, if you give the meat of got five months, if you give beacon for six months, if you give birds for seven months , if you give dear for 8 months and so on and bhishma also said if you give buffalo for 11 months, if you give beef one full year and if you give meat of red goat the ancestors will be satisfied for life.””

            Thats what is a proof of your own books stating killing animal.
            and further more i asked to you to watch the debate of Dr Zakir with your president of veg society rahmibhai Zaveri, but i think you have not watched it yet here take another proof how Dr Zakir humiliated rashmibhai zaveri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrGLUvjMjnY

            Lol rajputs killed many mughals and still mughals ruled india for more than 300 years what a joke?? if history has been changed how you are sure rajputs killed many mughals, don’t tell me you were alive in that time too?LOL and you are the eyewitness of that. Let be unbiased forget what we write about our history and what you write about your history check out the history by white people even they say that Mughals ruled whole india for more than 300 years and when british came to rule hindu’s supported them too and their major enemies were mughals. you hindu’s dont think of conquering any one land’s what about kasmir then, Un resolution passed in 1984 about the referendum of Kahmiries about their future under the supervsion of UN why india is not foloowing that ?? what about Tibet and nepal and bangladesh, in 1971 we were going through the tough phase of our internal matters? why did you send your more than 100, 000 army men to bangladesh and made it separated. Why india influencing in Baluchistan?? i know you will not commit these things and your army chief said by yourself we are in a position to fight with China and India Both. We never challenged you for War. but even then I TAKE MY WORDS BACK i am not against Indian people, i know they are nice. when lot off indian came here for Pak india match our taxi drivers didnt even charge single cent from them. Some hotels accommodated them absolutely free and i know indian people has done the same thing too. Some indian doctors operated some of our heart patient child free of cost but when indian came to Pakistan all went home safely. No one even got a scratch from here . But why our 60 people burnt in a train??????
            The Inspector who was inquiring about that Kurkure was killed in mumbai attacks

          • Vik says

            @Waqas,

            it doesnt matter whom mohmmad prescribed camel urine to, the question is why would he prescribe camel urine in the first place to anyone? Was he a doctor? Did he see some medical benefit in camel urine?

            Waqas, u enjoy mouthing about logic, but ur the one who is always illogiccal. U say plucking a fruit from the tree and eating it without killing the tree, is like cutting off a man’s hand and eating it. Waqas, when will u grow up, ur applications of logic here are so childish. There is a huge difference between a mans hands cut off and a fruit plucked. The difference is a man’s hand will never grow back on, whereas a fruit will. Yes, we can say, eating fruits off of a tree, its like cutting hair of nails, off of a human which doesnt hurt. Well, when i get a haircut or nailcut, i dont feel pain, i dont know about u. But listen, plants or bacteria do not have souls, like animals and humans. Just because plants can sense according to u it doesnet mean they have souls. Even robots, and machines have senses and sensors, does it mean they have a soul? LOL

            Listen all these hindu scriptures u been quoting from are either adulterated and interpolated, so I cant trust any english translations. I only read the direct sanskrit translations. Manu Smriti, Puranas, Ramayan, MahaBharat, all have been changed. The only hindu scripture that has been unchanged are the Vedas (ironically the first and only revealed texts) and not even a single element is changed. And if u enjoy quoting proofs
            then heres proof from the same book manu smriti (original)

            Manusmrithi 5.51
            Anumantaa vishasitaa nihantaa krayavikrayee
            Samskartaa chopahartaa cha khadakashcheti ghaatakaah

            Those who permit slaying of animals; those who bring animals for slaughter; those who slaughter; those who sell meat; those who purchase meat; those who prepare dish out of it; those who serve that
            meat and those who eat are all murderers.

            and heres Vedic proof:
            Breehimattam yavamattamatho maashamatho tilam
            Esha vaam bhaago nihito ratnadheyaaya dantau maa hinsishtam pitaram maataram cha
            Atharvaveda 6.140.2

            O teeth! You eat rice, you eat barley, you gram and you eat sesame. These cereals are specifically meant for you. Do not kill those who are capable of being fathers and mothers.

            So tell me Waqas, are apples and oranges capable of being parents, if i place a male apple with a female apple in a box (if there are genders lol), will they hatch millions of other apples. IF this were the case, every store would only buy 2 apples and all the farmers would have been laid off.

            The rest of ur quotes are all adulterated versions of ramayan, did u know there are 2 different versions on top of that, they are changed. I only trust Vedas to be the supreme. So avoid telling me about puranas, ramayana, manu smritt, etc. I respect those too but only in their real forms.

            As far as ur debate goes of ravi shankar and naik, to me, there was no clear winner and loser, i think they were tie, since they never had any arguments in vane. Nor, did mohammad naik the irf organizer announce the winner or loser. But some of the audience were stupid and #$%@ big time, especially the jackass they carry back the one in white hat and white clothes who was yelling at ravi shankar. Jackasses like him are the cause of riots and dont deserve to live.

            THe rashmi bhai debate, well, I have to blame rashmi bhai for that since he only relied on research ant not scientific facts. The problem is zakir is a doctor and he can fool anyone with his medical knowledge and no one verifies this. IF u saw closely one audience member challenged zakir naik to all his 20 points and zakir said come to irf and debate with my student.

            Every thing u mentioned about history, did happen to some extent. Moghals were keep expanding and we were keep killing them and they killed our men too. Big deal. U may know a jackass like moghal aurenghazib who was a complete p#$@y, tried to convert hindus to islam, but guess wot, he was defeated like a wretched dog.

            Hindus invadeed tibet? Hindus sent their army etc? What history books do u have to claim that. Hindus are not trying to conquer kashmir, but are protecting it from pakistani muslims like u. Kashmir wants to be a nation the way it is but pakistan wants to own it.

            As far as the samjhota express goes, where ur fellow pakistanis got killed, bleev me more than any pakistani or indian, its me who feels enraged and wants to avenge for them. I hate injustice no matter who does it whether pak on india or india on pak. I would want those people to get killed who were behind this samjota express more than anyone on this world. Its not that i liked those pakistanis its about humanity. Pakistanis are nice people too, i know that, but dont think we hindus have done this. But after the taj hotel attack, if we wanted we could have sent a few guys over in pakistan to attack a similar hotel, and kill innocent pakis in return, but we didnt. We chose to kill those terrorist instead. IF A has damaged B, in return B should damage A, not C, D, Or E. Get my point.

          • Anonymous says

            Talking of Kashmir, first u uproot the entire hindu population to make sure there is no one to support the Indian cause then you radicalize the youth in the name of “peaceful” islam to rebel against India, good ploy, u can think miles ahead, hats off to you guys. By the way Hemant Karkare was Maharashta Police’s Anti-Terrorism Squad chief. He was instrumental in decoding the Samjhauta Blast case by arresting Lt. Col Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya, and others and by the way, Karkare was a hindu. We hindus do not believe in radicalism and so, the investigations were fair and justice is being done. But alas, who kills Karkare, muslim radicals. Talking about Bangladesh, if have time go through Blood’s telegram, a US (then Pakistans trusted ally who sent the US Seventh Fleet to deter India) diplomat wrote about the attrocities of Pakistani army on innocent people especially nonmuslims (read hindus) imploring on his government to do something, and by the way Mr. Blood was a white man for your information. Why is India influencing the Baluchistan turmoil, well the answer is obvious: You meddle in my internal affairs and I do the same.

          • SDC says

            The muslims have been been a violent and barbaric lot and this needs no introduction. You said “dont worry inshah Allah Muslims will rule India again if not us then China would definitely rule you guys”. Your evil intentions are only too well known. Stop this masquerade of “peace”.

          • vinod says

            Well I don’t have much to say except one thing.I saw one youtube video of zakir naik speaking about mohammad in bhavishya purana and I have a copy of ‘Bhavishya purana’ and it clearly mentions Mohammd to be the representative of demon gods.

            This is kaliyuga and non vedic religion and beliefs flourish in this era.Most of the philosophies are polluted or product of mental speculation.Seeing this any xyz can start his own religion just only on the basis of arguments.You can befool less intelligent or less informed masses but you yourself get defeated when you are encountered by some other person having better argumentative skills than you.That’s one of the reason, hindusim streese upon self exploration of God through the process of yoga and metiation.

          • Waqas says

            Ans 2 :
            Brother Vik,
            Islam is a religion of peace. you can not say its because of some verses which u r taking out of context. If thats the case then i think you have a whole book of bloodshed ramayan. It only talks about war and killing your own cousins and brothers. I have seen Hindu’s putting Cow’s pee on their heads disgusting aaaghhhhh. I have seen Hindu’s worshiping Snakes Lol how can an animal be a God. They cant even protect themselves. They are the biggest threats to human being. I have seen hindus’s worshiping kali maa the black lady with her tongue out LOL come on brother it all seems stupidity of hindu’s religion nothing else. Hindu’s go to Ganga river to pure themselves. and i ve read story about the water of Ganga stating the water is like poisonous now. If you talk about holy water which we never meant to pure our selves Aabe zam zam, take a sample of it check it with any laboratory any means any they would tell its much better and much pure than a mineral water.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            brother Waqas, looks like u enjoy mouthing without doing any research. There is no such thing as animal worship in Vedas. SHow me a single verse that says one must worship an animal, then i will agree with u. What hindus are doing is not worship. When u see them performing rituals on the snake, they are NOT worship the snake, they are Worshipping GOD to protect and prosper such animal who is sacred. Especially cows, cows are the most beneficial animal to us humans since it gives us milk yogurt, so in our prayers, we pray to the Almighty Paramathma (GOD) thanking IT for giving us such a lovely animal and pray to give us power in protecting these beautiful animals in nature. Now, every animals has its own story in religion behind its value. As far as cow piss goes, once again, show me where it is mentioned in Vedas that one must drink cow piss? I am a hindu too and I dont drink cow piss, I have no idea why these people do. And as a matter of fact, of drinking piss, I even heard prophet mohammad drank camel piss in the deserts of arabia and also prescribed it to other arabs for medical benefit, what do u have to say about that?
            Ramayan had bloodshed because it told us logic of self defense and annihilating evil. All these epics like Ramayana or Mahabharat consist of great souls like Sri Ram and Sri Krishna. Both of these epics sent out a message telling us that good always defeats evil, and one should always be on the side of goodness, and if ur own relatives are wrong or evil, its ur duty to oppose them in the favour of goodness.

          • Waqas says

            @ vik
            You are saying things by yourself, to show you facts from Vedas. You tell me where is written in Quran or in Hadith about muhammad camel story. you are saying you heard that i could i say i heard when raavan kidnapped sita he raped her for years, or i ve heard etc . Vik i can say whatever i want to say but i am limiting my self. We started our debate with Dr Zakir, You could not defend it by your stupid comments, then you did not have anything to say, then you brought Quran in our debate, and now you could not defend that one you disrespected Muhammad even though knowing the fact that we can even give and take lives as far as only respect of Muhammad is concern. You should ve never added that line in your argument . Heard means heard and if i say heard i can start disrespecting your all lords too but then you would bullshit again against our prophets. If that dumb ass HIJRA could noty defend well about vedas in that argument thats not our fault. Who asked him to claim to memorize whole vedas at the age of 13.Your dumb ass ravi shankar who acclaims to be vedic too he said we do belive in these gods and he exampled it with floor that you can make different things with floor such a dumb ass idiot. i asked you to show me that video proof where your arya samaj defeated allies of Zakir show me LoL you just have words to say dont have proof. instead of wasting your time here ask your Arya samaj scholar to wear proper clothes and make a courage to debate Dr Zakir. the way rashmi bai zaveri was humiliated, the way Ravi Shankar was defeated we have the proof even whole world have the proof and thats the facts we are talking about. Go and watch that debate of Dr Zakir with rashmibai Zaveri about non veg food you would get your all answers and if you wont be able to understand then you better leave this debate.

            Being a neutral person judge it by yourself, you started debate about Zakir, then you started talking about Quran and then Muhammad now you would come to politics and so on.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas ur always demanding for proof, here it is. Prophet mohammad drank and prescribed camel piss. See, Narrated Abu Qilaba: “Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in ‘Al-Harra’ and when they asked for water, no water was given to them.” Abu Qilaba said, “Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu’), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)”

            As far a ravi shankar goes, show me a footage in the video, where ravi shankar said or admitted that he has memorized Vedas at the age of 13? I have heard Geeta at the age of 13 not Vedas. So show me. Ravi shankar knew the zakir is a fool so he decided not to beat or win him in a debate, o ya………..i have proof for this i can send u a video if u want proof upon request.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            Why you are hindu’s take things out of context . I asked you to give me that proof where its written Muhammad camel story. in that hadith its prescribed , no where in Hadith its wriiten He drank. Thats what show you are unbiased when you analyze some thing. Why that dumb ass came to debate with a fool then ? LOL . after defeating badly from Dr Zakir he make as many as lame excuses as he wants but time has left now. The criteria Dr Zakir Naik gave about the oneness of God from Quran And Vedas that dumb ass ravi shankar accepted it totally let me tell you what i call a proof here is a link
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtPLgL0XyrY

          • Waqas says

            @ VIk
            before giving any logic why don’t you think from your mind. Muhammad only prescribed that to those people only. He never prescribed it to sahaba’s or muslims.
            You are again giving a stupid logic of testing it on himself. If a doctor operates an heart what does that mean before operating others he operated his own heart. What a stupid logic. you have been giving stupid logics through out your comments but this kind of logic i ve never expected it from you.
            Yeah he came for that debate even though he was humiliated badly but he courage d to come for debate not like your Arya samaj Scholars. You tell me one thing clearly VIK if your arya samaj belives whatever he said about Vedas Was wrong why not the head of Arya Samaj challenge him?? If Dr Zakir naik does not come for a debate at least ask him for an official apology, He is been saying things like for last 4 years now. You dont even have a courage to ask him for an apology. What kind of Cowards they are. Jimmay Swagart Was one of the greatest Evangelist of USA in 80′s. He said something wrong about Quran in 1987 in 1988 Dr Ahmed Deedat challenged him to debate on that issue he refused because he said i dont have fully knowledge about Quran then Deedat challenged him to debate on the issue of “is the bible word of God ” He accepted that . Videos are available even on youtube check that how badly he was humiliated. Check out that debate comments in Wikipedia even white American journalists were saying Swaggart lost the battle. VIK for 14 years what are you waiting for. You do not even have guts to go on TV and at least ask for an apology. any thing you want me to refute????? He is a famous man now he cant have a debate with any tom dick and harry. Ask your head arya samaj to debate him. I know you guys wont. this thing will never happen and Peace TV would keep on showing videos and would keep shutting your mouth.

            Ok here to your answers .
            1 . If one of your army man or the man of your intelligence joins pakistan army or intelligence and if he goes back to india what would you to him according to your army law he would be court martialed called as a traitor and would be sentenced to death. Why, why would you do so? thats his life he can do whatever he want to do then you would say thats our army law so in that question i would say thats our Islamic Law.

            Ans 2. every middle to upper class family do hire people for thier home work. For cleanings, washing dishes etc that practice happens every where. Its the same here too.
            But there is a rule of having Sex with a slave, a slave permission is required to do so, if she gets pregnant and born a child, the child would have the whole right on his father . the father would give him/her share of his wealth, would treat his kid the way he treat his kids from his own wives.

            Now you did not answer my questions.

            You said arya samaj defeated allies of Zakir where is that video? if video is not available why did not you make that Video??

            If killing animal is a sin, then why bhisom ask Yudishter to killed so many animals ??

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, u said “You tell me one thing clearly VIK if your arya samaj belives whatever he said about Vedas Was wrong why not the head of Arya Samaj challenge him??”

            Waqas, I can say this same dialogue to u and to all muslims when ali sina is proving islam false right left center from all angles on his site faithfreedom.org( u probably dont have access to this since all these sites are banned in pakistan). Y did zakir naik not stop him? Ali Sina, has debated many muslim scholars and professors and he has left them thinking.

            Similarly, we ignore an idiot like Zakir. We all know that he is wrong and y waste time to argue with a fool. Now, u tell, Vedic interpretations have been going on for billions of years, and no one except dr. haq or naik has come accros with false claims of mohammad being prophecised. Obviously this is a scam, to whom every one will show rebuttal one day. There is a saying, u cant argue with a fool, every intelligent person has said that for zakir naik. He is very infamous in india, so who told u hes a public figure, hes a flop, in india, canada, america, irag, iran. He may be only popular in arab countries.

            For the videos of debate of zakir’s allies, with arya samaj, when we post them, I promise to send it to u first.

            Now, remmember my saying “when one cant answer a question properly, he gives up or gives a stupid reply”

            U have enacted this philosophy here as well. I am not satisfied from ur answer of my questions

            1) U compare a war treason, with a religion treason, which is very stupid. They are 2 different things with different context. Quran is God’s word according to muslims, so logically if Allah was sensible, he would say, that if someone chooses to leave islam, let him or her, I will punish him her in hell. But why would he command muslims to perform a murder? This proves quran is not GOD’s word, its the arabs who wanted to preserve their religion who wrote this quran. IF i wanted to preserve my religion made by me, i would have said the same thing, BUT logically why would GOD care? Vedas do not order hindus to kill someone if he leaves hindusim. In fact Vedas dont even demand a belief for one to bleev in them or not, its a humans choice. Whereas, if u dont bleev in quran, u go to hell (how stupid and how illogical), if u bleev in quran (u go to heaven and get 72 virgins) LOL.

            2) Having sex is only intended to grow a family in Vedas. Its not a pleasurefull act like quran. Again, Allah or GOD, saying men can have sex with slaves besides their wives is horribly sick and disgusting and not expected from GOD, it can be expected from a Devil, but not GOD. Our Vedas dont contain such lustfull desires Waqas. One woman is enough for a man and a man should only have sex with his wife (not slaves aunts strangers etc).

            So, again, I disagree with ur answers and I still challenge u for a moral justification on this.

            These commands in a quran are horrible and sick and logically cannot be GOD’s word. ( I am pretty sure even ur heart agrees with me).

            take care

          • Anonymous says

            By the way, just wanted to know if females can also indulge in sex with their male servants as their male counterparts can LOL.

          • Waqas says

            @ Vik
            if there are war stories written in Ramayen then its about a war of good and evil but if thats written in Quran then its about bloodshed.
            Why there is double standard???

            I thought i was talking to a sensible person, but i was thinking wrong.
            i suggest you all guys again, instead of wasting time here ask your cowards dumb asses arya samaj so called scholars to raise a voice against Dr Zakir naik . If some one speaks again our holy book or prophet we challenge him straight way. we dont wait for the so called right to come. your all arya samaj knows what dr zakir said is cent percent right and therefor they dont have courage to challenge him and look at peace Tv they are showing those video almost 3 to 4times in a week .

            Laugh at yourself

          • Anonymous says

            We know you are intolerant and that shows as well in your mannerisms and actions. In as far as challenging Zakir Bhai MBBS is concerned two requests for open debates (One by Paropkarini Sabha and other by Ali Sina) are still pending. If u could be kind enough to inform u r “indomitable” to accept the challenges from them.

          • Shashank says

            Dear Waqas,

            I know I’m commenting on a quite old blog but was going through it and thought of reminding something.

            Stories of wars in Ramayan and Mahabharat are refer to war between good and bad people. Between right and wrong. The war was not between believers and non-believers. Both sides believed in same god. You need to think with a calm mind and then come to a conclusion that if these epics can be compared with banu-qureza kind of incidents. I saw some one mentioning war of badr and was between right and wrong. Again I would like to disagree with this claim as it was Meccan, who were attacked and and not other way round.

            Think with the positive state of mind and you will find the truth yourself.

          • says

            mozzies are stupid just like their leader, muhammad…cow piss is proved to be anti-septic and anti-bacterial…it can cure kidney failures..the idea of cow piss drinking is awkward physically,but then it gives lots of benefits…for example,medicine is bitter but it cures us…hindus pray to snake because of respects…God is and is in all things….the hindus see God everywhere,while the muslims place him further from humans…allah is just a stupid sky god…

            plus answer me why why allah grant 72 virgins and most of them are 9 year girls to those who died for him or those who satisfied him in heaven ??why muhammad,a so called ‘prophet’ slept with a 9 year old girl ? why muhammad told his wife to breastfed adult men to accept them as her sons ? in UAE,the ulamas issued a breastfeeding fatwa to foreign workers ….why is this so ? means,if you drank your wife’s milk,then your are her son ?? why kadhija married twice and that too while muhammad was 15 years younger than her ??? why you people are praising this whore ??

            your kuran is nothing but a diary of terrorism….it states women’s mensturation process is 3 months and many stupid ,illogical verse..examples are the earth is flat like a carpet,allah created stars to throw at satan…experts have pointed out 52% of kuranic verses teach hatred….

          • Waqas says

            Asnt to 3.
            What right time you are talking about ?? According to you he has been talking garbage and thats what he has been doing for 14 years if you are already convinced that what ever he says its wrong go ahead do it right now. Its been 4 years now since he debated that dumb ass ravi shankar who acclaimed to memorize whole vedas at the age of 13. 4 years has already been passed. Peace tv showing that video again and again for 4 years you are still waiting for he right time. and check out that debate of zakir too with your vegetarian society president rashmi Bhai Zaveri. He was humiliated like anything at the end of the show. Debate topic was Is Non-Vegetarian Food Permitted or Prohibited. See we speak with proofs, if its with dumb ass ravi shankar or rashmi bhai zaveri we have videos you can easily see those on youtube , do you have the video proofs of the debate happened with allies of zakir or arya samaj, if yes then tell me the links i will see them and trust me if i analyze something i dont go biased at all . If you do not have that video, then you are just firing bullets in dark. i can lie about a debate of one your expert arya samaj with a muslim scholar and can say that arya samaj was defeated badly . talk with facts brother talk with facts or just shut your mouths until any of your cowards Arya samaj get a dare to challenge Dr Zakir

          • Waqas says

            @ SDC
            The name that you have given are from 16th century. The story about those can be changed. Not enough evidence are provided to make them true. The riots i talked about that are still available with TV channels. Jodha Akbar i did nt make that movie neither a muslim, it showed over there one of your raja presented his own daughter to save his and his city’s ass. LOL. Even though i dont belive in that story too. Earth 1947, Dev these all films are made by Hindu’s, not by a muslim. Jaziya is just lie a tax thats it you pay tax yto your hindu government we pay taxes too. now if you talk about history where jaziyah was only taken from non muslim let me correct you here it was only taken from rich businessmen non muslims not from every non muslim. If your stats about countries are true i do not have any complains about it either. yea we proudly preach Islam because we think of non muslims as our brother and we want to come on a right path. Let me you tell you another very clearly if a muslim forces any non muslim to convert and non muslim does so by pressure or by the threat being killed that mulsim is doing 200 percent wrong. Allah will be angry with that muslim.

          • SDC says

            As expected evasive. So, u mean to say jaziya is a lie. Then, u have already started rewriting history with the hue that suits u the most, typical muslims LOL. By the way, the problems with the hindus have always been their disunity (Remember, Prithviraj Chauhan spanked Muhmammad Ghauri’s ass many times but due to the treachery of Jaichand, he was defeated). Coming back to the topic of jaziya and it being a lie, very recently two sikhs were beheaded in Pakistan namely Jaspal Singh and Mahal Singh and it is in the newspapers and TV (lets see, how u dodge this) and by the way they are not rich businessmen and u still “proudly preach Islam because we think of non muslims as our brother and we want to come on a right path” how nice of you . Talking of movies, r u a muslim, if u are why do u have to watch movies in the first place, it is “haram”. First be a muslim, bro then talk of islam, LOL.

          • shahnawaz says

            dear what ever you said about Maulana Adbul Haque Vidyarth do u have any proof . Dear for your information he was a muslim scholar and was a teacher of hadiths not an Ahmadi. You can never even come close to the level of knowledge what Dr Zakir holds.

          • says

            Maulana was a stalwart of Ahmadiyaa movement. Please tell clearly that if it is proved that Maulana Abdul Haq was a Ahamdiyaa, would you condemn Zakir Naik? If not then you are being hypocritical, unless you admit that Zakir supports Ahmadiyyas and you also endorse them. First let us have the rules laid out.

      • Waqas says

        @Siva
        Dr Zakir naik has become a public figure now. If he start debating with any tom dick and harry trust me he ll have to spend his every minute on debating then. if Ali sina really believes that what Dr Zakir Naik has said about Islam its wrong then he should challenge him in public. Held a press conference ask Dr Zakir naik for an apology or if he does not then challenge him for a debate. that way Dr Zakir Naik will not have a way to run. Trust me if it prove that what ever he said in that debate was wrong i would be the first one to stop his watching his videos any more. i believe in truth too but it has to be proved. He cant have a debate with any tom dick and harry.

        • thejus says

          zakir does not accept challege of the strong. He plays with weak people. He does not say Hinduism is wrong in India. He never says against India in India but within his coterie he is against India. He does not respond to challeges, he is selective with whom he will be debating. Any stong candidate will be turned down or simply says he did not recieve any information and things like that. He is a businessman is the name of religion.

        • says

          The Ali SIna challenge was the most rational way of seeking truth. Zakir has access to petro-dollars that fund Osama Bin Laden, and hence can provide himself wide publicity. I admit we do not have such gigantic funds, but nonetheless we would ensure that every truthseeker – Hindu or Muslim – is a force to counter the fraud of Zakir naik and expose those who support likes of Osama.

      • Arya says

        Dear brother Waqas namaste,

        1) Injustice has already been done! Seals on heart and veils on eyes have already been put by Allah. I asked you, what freewill do I have with my sealed heart and veiled eyes? Why did Allah write all this? Was he not sure about his memory? When did he write our fate? Did he know our fate before writing it? If yes then what was the need to write it, if not then who told him all this?

        2) Regarding the language and deeds of the prophets I am sure you will know some new facts now-
        i) Ayesha said, "The Prophet used to place a pillow in my lap even though I would be menstruating, and then he would recite the Qur'an." (Bukhari, vol 1pg 197 Book of Bath)
        ii)The Messenger of Allah addressed his wife Safia as “O You, bald-headed perished one!” (Bukhari, Kitabut Talaq vol 3 pg 143)
        iii)Abdullah Ibne Umar was reciting the Qur'an. When he reached verse 2:223, he asked Naafe whether he knew the application of this verse. Then he went on to explain as:“Your women are your tilths. Therefore, go to your tilths, as you please. If you wish, go into her …” (Bukhari, Book of Tafseer 6:50)
        iv) Ayesha said, “When Rasoolullah desired to have intercourse with me while I menstruated, he would order me to tie a piece of cloth around my waist.” (Bukhari, The Book of Menstruation vol 1 pg 24)
        v) A woman presented herself to the Prophet. He intently gazed at her from head to toe and then lowered his head (meaning she did not interest him). (Bukhari, Book of Nikah 3:71)

        Brother, I can continue this list furthermore but I think its enough to prove that Muhammad and Mirja Ghulam Ahmed were not different intellectually and morally.
        May Eeshvar give us strength to accept the truth and reject the false.

        • Waqas says

          @ Arya

          Brother you were the one who was talking about the sects of Islam and asking us to whom to believe i think before you talk about Islam then you should talk to Hindu’s about It. you are an arya you don’t beleive Purana’s, hundreds and thousands of hindus believe on Puranas and geeta’s and ramayan etc. First, you all should decide who to follow, if you think only one God to be accepted as God, great mashah Allah , make a new topic and ask your own hindu bothers not to consider snake, cows and other animals to be God. once you would be done with this, then you could talk with us. LOL
          Brother Charity begins at home. So first debate this issue with your hindu brothers, bring them on one plate form then we could debate whether Vedas are the word of God or Quran.

          • Arya says

            Brother Waqas, namaste

            1) I was talking of sects in Islam because according to Muhammad, only one out of 72 sects of Islam is on truth. Rest of 71 will be in hell. But Muslims now claim that a person who believes in Allah and Muhammad will go to janna. Thus I just wanted to tell muslims that it is not sufficient for you to believe in Allah and his rasool, but you should first tell which sect you come from and is this the sect which Muhammad was talking about? The funniest thing with muslims is that they talk of getting heaven for themselves and allotment of hell for non muslims and give Dawah to them. But actually they dont know whether they belong to the one truth sect of islam or not.
            2) Hindus never claim that only hindu will go to heaven and every non hindu will go to hell. They believe in reincarnation and theory of Karma. A person be it hindu or not will be happy if he does good and will get punishment if he does bad. That is why I do not feel any necessity to debate with them on this issue. They do not create problems for the world.
            3) I wrote about many sects in islam and life of Muhammad according to Hadith. We should talk on these issues on the basis of authentic books and not on what people do, otherwise you have to answer things like grave worship which most of muslims do. I have shown the character of Muhammad in my previous comments from Sahih Hadith which you accept to be authentic. You did not give any of such things from the book (Vedas) which I consider authentic.
            Brother, you did not answer any of my questions asked in my comments. Hope you would do it some day!

      • yousuf says

        Hi Shiva..
        Here are the answers for your question .
        1. Check Surah Al Ahzab ( Chapter 33,Verse 40) It says "Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.".. Link for your reference http://quran.com/33

        2. All other books, says BIBLE, etc. have been modified by the people.. for thr own interest .. It's something which we can see presently also.. In Christianity itself you have n no of books .. they change the rule as and when they want….
        Its also mentioned in the Holy Quran that.. people of the Book( jews/christians) were not loyal to their own book.

        3. Its mentioned in the BIBLE,Old testament about the coming of the new prophet, but when Prophet Mohammad came , they didnt not accept…

        4. Brother i can advise you one thing.. If you are really seeking truth..Ask Allmighty God to give you guidance and show you straight path.. I also advise you to read a book named " Fundamentals of Tawheed by BILAL Philips"..Its an excellent book and clear all you misconceptions about ISLAM.. Read that book if after reading that book you have any doubts,please let me know..

        Also please note iam not here to fight,abuse or curse anyone,or to revert you to Islam or anything of that sort….. iam just telling you the truth.. If you want to accept it or not its your choice…

        • Emmanuel says

          Why do you believe blindly that what Quran says is right .
          How can we accept someone as the ‘Mohammad’ who married a nine year old girl as a second birth of Jesus. Jesus rose from the dear …. did ‘Mohammad’ rose ??

      • asma says

        Asalaamwalekum Warahmatullah hi Wa Barakataku to all my Muslim sisters and brothers,

        I am a muslim who is practising, and according to some non believers my religion seems to be conspicious in a bad way, i just want to let them know they should read up the Qu’ran before they cast their stones. Islam makes more sense to me (and i am not just saying this because i am a muslim), butr seriously it makes way more sense than hinduism and any other of these religions, and as for the Ahmadiyya group, for starters, it says in the Qu’ran there is no prophet or messenger after the Prophet Mohammed (SAW), secondly ISA (AS) are going to come to earth (two angels are going to bring them down to earth), whereas Ghulam Ahmad was born on this earth and secondly Islam doesn’t believe in reincarnation so that point is of the Ahmadiyya people doesn’t at all go into Islam.
        I have many other objections to what the Ahmadiyya people say is true but that would take to long, basically to be honest i just want to say stop hating on Dr Zakir Naik because unlike you cowards who speak ill behind his back, he at least has the courage to stand up in front of millions of people and confront their religion, in fact he actually seems to know more about others faiths than they do, but because Allah has guided him and shown him what is the correct religion (with nothing to hide) he is a proud muslim and i salute him for that.

        And to that hindu, u speak ill about Islam, at least Islam states everything and it MAKES SENSE whereas i heard about the story of the elephant god, and in reality if you were to cut of a persons head and replace it with and elephants head, am possitive the person would still be dead (basic knowledge).
        So before you question my religion i suggest you look at yours.

        • adolf says

          @asma
          >>according to some non believers my religion seems to be conspicious in a bad way,I just want to let them know they should read up the Qu’ran before they cast their stones.
          How can one non believe without knowing the fundamentals (Quran) ? Many objections to Quran come from scholars in Quran and ahadiths.

          >>Islam makes more sense to me (and i am not just saying this because i am a muslim), butr seriously it makes way more sense than hinduism and any other of these religions
          Hinduism is a way of life. You seem to know nothing about Hinduism. It is ok if islam makes sense to you, every fool has his right to believe.

          >> I just want to say stop hating on Dr Zakir Naik because unlike you cowards who speak ill behind his back,
          His stage shows are well planned to have more people like you, so he can speak nonsense and get applause. Why cant coward zakir naik answer questions asked here?

          >>And to that hindu, u speak ill about Islam, at least Islam states everything and it MAKES SENSE whereas i heard about the story of the elephant god, and in reality if you were to cut of a persons head and replace it with and elephants head, am possitive the person would still be dead (basic knowledge).
          If Allah can raise the dead and give you a place in heaven , cant a similar god give life to the dead body with elephant head? What do you consider the person? Is it the face , the cut body?

          >>So before you question my religion i suggest you look at yours.

          We cant just keep quiet looking at our religion, While people like bin laden and abdul kasam blow our bodies to pieces.

          This site is not for peaceful followers of Islam. It is answer to sort of people who justifies killing and suppression in the name of religion.

          • asma says

            yh people like bin laden should be dead, i dont object to that,
            there are rotton eggs in every religion though
            if you wre 2 look up into Islam, you would see Islam is a peace ful religion
            Yes i get y u question 4 people killing, but as far as my knowledge, in Islam everything is a test and only Allah has the right to bring us into the world and take us. Some sins commited yes have death as the answer, but if the person asks for forgivness, Allah is most merciful, so that person would have the right to live, people who kill have actual no right others. so yes there are people who bring Islam down i see but all i want to say is that there is a difference in people and religion. Islam is a good religion, but some people actually change Islam to a very bad thing for instance the taliban, they are totally wrong, in Islam woman have alot of rights as the Prophets wife Aishah (RA) was a educated judge. So dont judge Islam due to some illitirate people, look it up trust me Islam is a good religion, its people who commit sin not the religion Islam

        • dharmayoddha says

          @asma
          So, elephant god doesnt make sense? Well, lailat al isra wa al miraj doesnt make sense to me either, just another story from muslim mythology.

          Zakir Naik has got guts to confront? I got bigger guts to confront him. Care for an open debate. I sent him an email on some lies he talked about islam, he didnt bother replying.

          and ahmadiyyas/qadianis are better human beings than wahabbi sunni muslims. They abrogated the principles of jihad. Kaash all muslims do that.

          Or least be like the dawoodi bohras, the best amongst the muslim community.

  5. syedromaisa says

    Asalamu alaikum………. this message is for those who are trying to falsify Islam with out any proper base….. brother/sisters please try to gain more and more knowledge through proper channels nd book specially Quaran.. open ur heart and mind..leave Dr. Naik aside and study az much as u can.. and come back to the real God … Accept that god is one and no one iz like him……

    Come bake and revert before itz too late

    May Allah show u and us the right path
    Ameen
    Allah hafiz

    • dharmayoddha says

      @syedromaisa

      I studied kkkoran and found it false. I dont want to revert to islam, what you gonna do? Kill me?

      Allah showed me the right path and brought me back to sanatan dharma

  6. Talha khan says

    Asalam-o-Alikum!
    @Arya ….
    I am really very impressed and glad to see your knowledge and interests towards Islam. JazakAllah brother for sharing all the information and also the allegations and critics against Islam. InshAllah this will let you more towards the thorough study of Islam and towards the ultimate truth (InshAllah) i.e There is no God but Allah.
    I want to reply all of your previous comments and posts but time is not permitting me to do so. But I will try my level best to clarify all those issues and and convince you. So I am starting for your latest comment about importance of Hadith.
    1) Brother this is not true that Hadiths were compiled when muslims were facing difficulty in understanding Islam through Quran. Rather Hadiths were compiled to save and preserve the sayings, acts and life of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) so that every person can get benefit from it. Quran is the final word of God very concise and very precise and Hadiths are further elaborating the practicality and explanation of Quranic verses as life of Muhammad(PBUH) was also Quran itself. It doesn’t mean Quran will be incomplete or will be less worthy without Hadith. Because the criteria for checking the credibility of any Hadith is itself Quran. Hadith should be seen and understand in light of Quran. No Hadith can go against/contradict Quran. The basic and foundation is laid down by Quran and its execution and implementation during life of Prophet (PBUH) can be seen in Hadiths. So as a muslim we require both Quran and Hadith (in light of Quran) to seek mercy of God Almighty.
    2) I am 100% agree with you here. Quran is also revealed on Muhammad (PBUH), so that how can we deny of Hadiths? If we deny Hadith, then there will also be doubts on credibility of Quran itself. But it needs further explanation brother:
    Quran was completed and compiled (though not printed) during the lifetime of Prophet. And he himself listened to complete Quran in the order which is presented infront of us today and further he recited the whole Quran in front of Gabriel and thus it is also being confirmed from God. So there is no doubt in credibility of Quran.
    About Hadith is that, Hadiths were started to be written by scholars of Islam 100-200 years after the death of Prophet. They all are written by prominent scholars but not by Prophet himself nor it has been testified by Prophet. Different scholars have spent their whole life to gather the Hadith from different sources and different chains of narrators and as much authentic as possible. But yet it is man-written and yet contain some fabricated and weak Hadith along with Sahih Hadith . The term used here “Sahih” means the authentic Hadiths which are consistent and fulfilling all the standards of authenticity. Some of which are:
    1) Consistency and compatibility with Quran.
    2) Continuous chain of linkage of all the narrators (with no one missing in between) up to Prophet (PBUH) himself.
    3) The character of narrators.
    And sometime it is necessary to check the context in which particular Hadith is said and also its consistency with other Ahadiths about the same topic. And Prophet himself has cursed the person who attributes any false claim with Prophet. Anyhow this is solely and purely a research type of work and is still going on to separate “Sahih” and fabricated or weak Hadith and many prominent scholars have produced immense and remarkable work in this regard. In present day example, one such scholar was Al-Bani. He separated the weak and fabricated Hadith from all the six major books of Hadiths including Bukhari and Muslim. Many other scholars have also criticized Bukhari and other books of Hadiths for some weak narrations.
    And all the sects among Muslims believe Quran as the word of God and Hadiths as the implementation and practicality of Quran as the actions of Prophet. There is not any difference between any sects on this issue. And the criterion to justify Hadith on basis of Quran is also same in all the sects. The difference lies in chain of narrators. Shia believes some narrators from the family of Prophet as more authentic than others while Sunni believe other companions of Prophet also authentic. This does not create any difference. As the authentic Hadith will be one which will fulfill all the conditions some of which are stated above. And one hadith does not come out from any single source. There are many chains of narrators through which it is linked. And more or less the Hadiths which are present in Sunni books are also contained in Shia books with some other narrators but from the same Prophet and same meaning.
    And Allah knows the best ……

    • Talha Khan says

      Dear brother Arya,
      Asalam-o-Alikum!
      If those of my comments have hurt you I am sorry for them. Actually for me at least, the truth is my religion and I am fully convinced and satisfied with it whole heartedly as well as logically. It does not mean at all that I have closed my heart or my eyes towards the truth. I kept them open that’s why I found it. And till day I am pretty much satisfied with it. But I am agreeing here with you that in our debate the points should be logical and in real spirit to seek the knowledge and truth (to what is true in both religions and remove the doubts and confusions). I think I have not offended you again.

      So I am discussing you here about your first point. The references you gave for Quranic verses were:

      “And they said, ‘why are not signs were sent down upon them from his Lord’? Say you, ‘the signs are with Allah. And I am indeed a clear -warner’. Does it not suffice them that We have sent down upon you the Book that is recited to them? Undoubtedly, in it there is mercy and admonition for the believers. [29:50, 51]”

      “The Hour of Resurrection has drawn near and the Moon has split asunder. Yet whatever Sign these people may see they turn away and say, “This is current magic. [54:1-2]”

      Please read these Quranic verses again and you will find them in perfect accordance with each other and as a classical example of the trueness of Quran, signs of Allah and the Day of Judgment. There isn’t any contradiction at all. But the latter verses are fulfilling of what has been said in above verses. And if you read both Surats completely with knowing the background of revelation and within context believe my you will also appreciate the perfect harmony among Quranic verses. Anyhow I will try to clarify your doubts about them.

      You said:
      Muhammad clearly says that he can not perform miracles because they are with Allah, and there is no need to show miracles because Quran is sufficient.

      It does not say anywhere that “there is no need to show any miracle” or “he can not perform miracles”. Indeed he performed miracles but with will of God and Quran is the greatest miracle of him as mentioned by Quran itself.
      I am surprised that how you extracted that meaning out of it. Let it be there as it is mentioned in Quran and it will be very clear to what it is meant.

      The correct interpretation of these verses is:

      “A Book like the Qur’an has been sent down to you in spite of your being unlettered. Is it not by itself a great miracle which should convince the people of your Prophethood? Do they yet need another miracle after this? The other miracles were the miracles for those who witnessed them. But this miracle is ever present in front of them. It is being recited before them almost daily; they can witness it as and when they like.”
      As the presentation of a Book like the Qur’an by an unlettered person, and the manifestation by him, all of a sudden, of extraordinary qualities of character while nobody ever noticed him making any preparation for these previously, are in fact the clearest Signs which serve as pointers to his Prophethood for those who are possessed of knowledge and wisdom.

      Although Prophet (PBUH) was sent down as a ‘clear-warner’ to warn people about the Day of Judgment and life after death and for that God also showed those signs to validate the claims of Muhammad (PBUH).

      And one such sign is mentioned in latter verses i.e. Surah Qamar (54:1-2). And the interpretation of these verses is:

      “The splitting of the Moon asunder is a portent that the Hour of Resurrection, of which you are being foretold, has drawn near at hand, and the order of the Universe has begun to be disrupted. Moreover, the incident that a great sphere like the Moon’s has split into two distinct parts, is a specific proof of the fact that Resurrection of which you are being forewarned can take place. Obviously, when the Moon can split, the earth also can split, the orbits of he stars and planets also can change and the whole system of the heavens also can be disturbed. There is nothing eternal and everlasting and stable here so that Resurrection may be improbable.”
      Here, the question arises: What was the real nature of this incident. Was it a miracle that the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) performed on the demand of the disbelievers of Makkah as a proof of his Prophethood? Or, was it only an accident that occurred on the Moon by the power of Allah and the Holy Prophet had only called the peoples attention to it and warned them to mark it as a Sign of the possibility and nearness of Resurrection? A large group of the Muslim scholars regards it as among the miracles of the Holy Prophet and holds the view that it had been shown on the demand of the disbelievers. But this view is based only on some of those traditions which have been related from Hadrat Anas. Apart from him no other Companion has stated this. According to Fath al Bari Ibn Hajar says: “Apart from the narration by Hadrat Anas, in no other narration of this story have I come across the theme that the incident of the splitting of the Moon had taken place on the demand of the polytheists. (Bab Inshiqaq al-Qamar). Abu Nu’aim Isfahani has related a tradition on this subject in Dale il an-Nubuwwat, on the authority of Hadrat ‘Abdullah bin ‘Abbas also, but it has a weak chain of transrmitters and none of the traditions that have been related with strong chains of tranamitters in the collections of Hadith on the authority of Hadrat ‘Abdullah bin ‘Abbas, contains any mention of this. Furthermore, neither Hadrat Anas nor Hadrat `Abdullah bin `Abbas was a contemporary of this incident. On the contrary, none of the Companions from among Hadrat `Abdullah bin Mas’ud, Hadrat Hudhaifah, Hadrat Jubair bin Mut`im, Hadrat ‘Ali, Hadrat `Abdullah bin ‘Umar, who were contemporaries of the incident, has stated that the pagans of Makkah had demanded a Sign of the Holy Prophet to testify to his Prophethood on which he might havc shown the miracle of the splitting of the Moon. Above all, the Qur’an itself also is presenting this event not as a Sign of the Prophethood but as a Sign of the nearness of Resurrection. However, this was indeed conspicuous proof of the Holy Prophet’s truthfulness because it testified to the news that he was giving to the people of the coming of Resurrection.
      (From Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi – Tafhim al-Qur’an)

      I hope now you will have some better understanding about these verses and you will not see any contradiction in these verses. I will reply the other issues in my next post InshAllah.
      May Allah give us the faith.

      • Talha Khan says

        The verses you quote in your point number two are:

        “That Day is approaching when everyone shall find before him whatever he has done be it good or evil. On that Day one would wish that there were a long span of time between himself and that Day. Allah warns you to fear Him for He is very Compassionate towards His servants [3:30]”

        “O Prophet, tell the people, “If you sincerely love Allah follow me; then will Allah love you and forgive your sins, for He is Forgiving and Merciful. [3:31]”

        “The people who have rejected the message of Truth, be they the people of the Book or the mushriks, would never like that any good be sent down to you from your Lord, but Allah chooses for His mercy whom He wills, and Allah is Most Bountiful. [2:105]”

        Again I will say to you that please read these verses again and you will not find any contradiction in them. Furthermore [2:105] is about very different topic as you can see very clearly in that verse. It has been spoken about the behavior and conduct of people of book i.e. Jews and if you read the previous and the latter verses of Surah Baqra (chapter No. 2), it will make you very clear that here the behavior and jealousy of Jews is discussed towards the Prophet and Islam. I think it is not needed to give any further explanation as the verse is very straight forward and obvious by itself.

        Although I am presenting a brief description about these verses which will Inshallah remove your doubts about them.

        The verse [3:30] is referring to the Day of Judgment and it is said that on that day, all the good and bad deeds will be shown to everyone:
        Allah tells His servants that He knows the secrets and apparent matters and that nothing concerning them escapes His observation. Rather, His knowledge encompasses them in all conditions, time frames, days and instances. This Ayah alerts Allah’s servants that they should fear Him enough to not commit what He prohibits and dislikes, for He has perfect knowledge in all they do and is able to punish them promptly. And He gives respite to some of them, then He punishes them, and He is Swift and Mighty in taking account. And on the Day of Resurrection, Allah brings the good and evil deeds before the servant. Then He warns people against His punishment. Allah then said, while bringing hope to His servants, so that they do not despair from His mercy or feel hopeless of His kindness that Allah is full of kindness with the servants.

        Then in latter verse i.e. [3:31], Allah has given the criteria on which He will grant His mercy and kindness to His servants.
        “If you (really) love Allah, then follow me (i.e. Muhammad), Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
        This Ayah judges against those who claim to love Allah, yet do not follow the way of Muhammad. Such people are not true in their claim until they follow the Shari`ah (Law) of Muhammad and his religion in all his statements, actions and conditions.

        And Allah really does justice. Allah has revealed His words and sent His Prophet to the mankind. Now if those people who believe in Quran as word of God and Muhammad(PBUH) as prophet of God and act upon the commandments of Him by following Muhammad(PBUH) will be deserved for mercy or those people who rejected all His commandments and stand against Him ? Please think for a moment, if Allah is really a true and only God, then what should be the justice? To treat both kind of people equally? Will it be a justice? I think it will be injustice with those who surrender themselves before Him and obey Muhammad (PBUH). Allah never said that He will bring His mercy on non-believers anywhere in Quran.
        And for those people who disbelieve in Allah and His messenger but though they do good deeds along with some bad deeds which are forbidden by God, Allah will certainly give the reward according to their deeds in this world as well as hereafter. But those people will not be blessed by paradise because they do not wish for it and act accordingly. I think this is the best justice. The person who rejected God, His messenger, life hereafter and closed his eyes towards the signs of God then how God can bring His mercy upon Him, if he himself is not willing. Then the best justice should be to treat him according to his deeds in this world. (And Allah knows the best)

        The last verse is completely different and speaking about the people of Books. The interpretation within context is:

        The verse speaks of Jews behavior towards Muslims in general. Some of the Jews used to assure the Muslims of their sincerity towards them, and to pretend that they would very much have liked the Muslims to have received from Allah religious doctrines and commandments superior to what they themselves had received, so that they too could accept them, but unfortunately Islam did not seem to be a better religion.
        The Holy Quran refutes their claim to be the well-wishers of the Muslims, and declares that the infidels, whether they be the Jews or the associators, are so jealous of Muslims that they can never like the idea of their receiving from Allah any kind of blessing whatsoever. Of course, this jealousy can do no harm to the Muslims, for Allah is Beneficent and All-Powerful, and can shower his special blessings on whomsoever He chooses.

        May Allah show us the right path.

      • Arya says

        Dear friend Talha, namaste

        1)Is Quran a book of knowledge which is applicable for all times or is it a collection of some incidents? If Quran were to be a knowledge book, all its verses should have their significance in all times. If Allah had refused to sent down signs upon Muhammad and after few years or months, He sent down signs then both the verses can not be true at the same time. Hence Quran is proved to be a history book rather than a knowledge book, which was significant for a particular time but not now.
        2) Friend you wrote-“A Book like the Qur’an has been sent down to you in spite of your being unlettered.”
        I would like to know if Muhammad was illiterate then how was it possible for him to become trade manager of Hazrat Khadiza? Muhammad was expert in handling the business which included trade with other countries too. Then how is it possible that a man with such expertise was illetrate?
        3) If according to Quran, its revelation itself was the biggest sign then it was useless to show any smaller signs further! It was in fact proved to be useless as you quoted-”Yet whatever Sign these people may see they turn away and say, “This is current magic.”[54:2].
        4) You quoted Maududi-”Qur’an itself also is presenting this event not as a Sign of the Prophethood but as a Sign of the nearness of Resurrection”
        But my friend, just read once the language of [54:2]. It clearly says-yet whatever signs these people may see, they turn away and say, this is current magic. Since moon was split by Muhammad, it was indeed sign of prophethood. In Quran also, this sign shows the prophecy of Muhammad. Moreover, what does Maududi mean by nearness of resurrection? Near and far are relative terms. Does Quran tell after so many years resurrection will occur?
        5) Friend, we are living in the scientific era. You can not convince anyone by telling him the story of splitting of moon and some more like this. Except Arabs, not the single person outside Arab could see the splitting of moon. Why? Is God so weak that he has to show signs to some persons in order to convince them? Are sun, earth, moon, etc not the signs of greatness of God? Do you think that splitting of moon is greater sign than the perfect and unchangeable laws of motions of moon, earth and sun? Unchangeable laws, knowledge, and form of God are in fact more than sufficient signs for believers. And for unbelievers, it is same whether you warn them or not, they will not believe! [Quran 2:6]

        • Talha Khan says

          Asalam-o-Alikum!
          Dear brother Arya

          You wrote:
          1) My dear friend Quran is not a book of history. It is a God’s miraculous, matchless message that has been sent to all humanity through His last Messenger. Through Quran, God has expressed His message in the most explicit way, leaving no room for any misunderstanding or confusion.

          “We have explained in detail in this Qur’an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious. (18:54)”

          Nowhere in Quran is it mentioned that “Allah had refused to sent down signs upon Muhammad”, but in that verse, it is stated very clearly and ambiguously “Does it not suffice them that We have sent down upon you the Book that is recited to them?” It means that isn’t it enough for them that we have revealed Quran upon you? Why are you confusing it with that Allah refused to show any of His signs? Please read the verse again it is saying “Signs are with Allah”. He can show any of His sign to anyone to whom He wants. What is the point of confusion? Did Allah say anywhere in Quran I will not show any of My sign to anyone?

          2) My friend please read the books on life history of Muhammad (PBUH). I am suggesting you some top biographies of Muhammad written by International scholars. Please read them you will find your answer in great detail:

          •Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, by Martin Lings
          •Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet, by Karen Armstrong
          •The Millenium Biography of Muhammad the Prophet of Allah, by Grand Shaykh, Professor Hasan Qaribullah
          •Sirat Al Nabi and the Orientalists, by Muhammad Muhar Ali
          •Fiqh-us-Seerah: Understanding the life of Prophet Muhammad, by Muhammad Al-Ghazali
          •Seert-un-Nabi, by Allama Shibli Numani

          And you will find almost the similar answer in every biography which I am quoting you from one of the book:

          “By now, Muhammad was a young man. The caravan journeys he had made with his uncle had taught him many things, so it was natural that he too should take to trading as a livelihood. There were those in Mecca who gained much wealth through trading. Some of them, for one reason or another, choose not to accompany the caravans on their missions, preferring to entrust their goods and money to a caravaner who would in return be given a share of the profit. However, reliable, trustworthy people had become increasingly difficult to find. Muhammad’s word was his bond, his reputation for fairness; honesty and trustworthiness were known by all in Mecca so when he took to trading, Meccan businessmen welcomed him as their profit-sharing partner. It was not only with their trade that the Meccans trusted him. They trusted him completely in the knowledge that anything placed in his safe-keeping would be returned without decrease. One might have expected that he would have been paid a fee for such service, however he never requested, desired, nor accepted a fee. His inherent sense of fairness dictated that receiving a fee would ultimately detract from the value of the person’s wealth. Such was his impeccable reputation that both businessmen and tribesmen would refer to him as “Al Amin”, the trustworthy. It was through Muhammad’s example of fair-trading that, in later years, his companions emulated his practice and became very successful in all aspects of commerce. Those who traded with them, be they Muslim or non-Muslim in Arabia or in other countries, knew that they could rely upon their trading partner and would never be cheated.”

          So the reason was his honesty, truthfulness and fairness that made him successful in trade. And Quran itself speaks about the unletterness of him as:

          “He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves” (63:2)

          3,4) I think I already have given you the answer of these in point number 1. Allah says in Quran:

          “We will show them Our signs in all the regions of the earth and in their own souls until they clearly see that this is the truth. (41-53)

          Signs are with Allah. He shows them to whom He wants in any form. The sign of splitting the moon was one of such sign which was shown to the people to that era. That was not shown by Prophet on demand of non-believers neither Quran claimed that anywhere nor Prophet claimed that. The further answer that why He shows His signs to people is mentioned in the above verse i.e. they are shown for the remembrance of God, Day of Resurrection and life after death.
          And the day of Resurrection will come in the similar manner as mentioned in that verse “The Hour of Resurrection has drawn near and the Moon has split asunder”. It was shown clearly as a sign of Judgment day and the term “near” means it is very near to you. For a person, as soon as he dies, the timeline given to him is over and accountability is started from him. So for him the day of his death is his Judgment day. And the ultimate day will also come in similar manner as said by Quran:

          He questions: “When is the Day of Resurrection?” At length, when the sight is dazed and the moon is buried in darkness, and the sun and moon are joined together that Day will Man say; “Where is the refuge?” ( 75:6-10)

          5) That exactly I am saying me dear friend. We are living in scientific era. And all the scientific facts you have mentioned are already been discussed in Quran as oneness of God. How can we deny those facts? Those are the clear signs showing the presence of one and true God i.e. Allah. Furthermore earthquakes, floods, volcanoes are also among His signs indicating the same destruction will happen at large scale and life will be no more and we all then be accountable for our deeds in front of Him.

          “The sun and the moon are made punctual. The stars and the trees adore. And the sky He hath uplifted; and He hath set the measure, that ye exceed not the measure, But observe the measure strictly, nor fall short thereof. And the earth hath He appointed for (His) creatures, wherein are fruit and sheathed palm trees Husked grain and scented herb. Which is it, of the favours of your Lord that ye deny?”

          “He created man of clay like the potter’s, And the Jinn did He create of smokeless fire. Which is it, of the favours of your Lord that ye deny?”

          “Lord of the two Easts, and Lord of the two Wests! Which is it, of the favours of your Lord that ye deny?”

          “He hath loosed the two seas. They meet. There is a barrier between them. They encroach not (one upon the other). Which is it, of the favours of your Lord: that ye deny?”

          “His are the ships displayed upon the sea, like banners. Which is it, of the favours of your Lord that ye deny?” (Surah Rehman- 55)

          And finally will come upon the day of Resurrection:

          In that is a Sign for those who fear the penalty of the Hereafter: that is a Day for which mankind will be gathered together: that will be a Day of Testimony. Nor shall We delay it but for a term appointed. (11.102-7)
          May Allah forgive us.

  7. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, when u saw the debate of zakir naik vs sri sri ravi shankar, either u were deaf or not paying attentiion. Waqas, u said “he debated that dumb ass ravi shankar who acclaimed to memorize whole vedas at the age of 13.” first off, ravi shankar never memorized the Vedas, ravi shanker memorized the GEETA. Geeta and Vedas are 2 separate scriptures, dont confuse between them. Go and rewind that video and watch it again, if ravi shankar knew Vedas inside out, that parrot zakir naik would have stopped flopping his wings. IT was the Geeta he said. GO and see for urself if u dont bleev me. I have that debate on tape too. As far as islam is concerned, tell me one thing Waqas, if quran is really the word of GOD, then y would GOD order a muslim to kill an ex muslim just because he chose to leave islam? Why would GOD allow the slavery of women for extra sex of men? Why would GOD allow polygammy? I can send u the verses tooo, but try to justify these questoins. Vedas do not allow pollygamy, Vedas do not allow slavery of women for extra pleasure sex, Vedas do order hindus to kill anyone who chooses to leave Vedas or Vedic Dharma. So, which one do u think is more authentic in being GOD’s word?

  8. Vik says

    @Waqas

    further u said”
    if there are war stories written in Ramayen then its about a war of good and evil but if thats written in Quran then its about bloodshed.
    Why there is double standard???”

    there is no double standard here. If quran talks about bloodshed in a self defense or justifying way to mankind, then its reasonable. But when islam commands jihad and terrorist attacks suicide bombings then u fanatics take it too far.

    Why dont u compare, Ramayan and Quran both sanction violence and bloodshed, but we hindus are amongst the most peacefull peopple and look at u, majority of terrorists are muslims?

    So who has gone far into bloodshed? Please tell me?

    As far as debate with mr parrot zakir goes, U know and I know, that zakir naik is no match for an Arya Samaj scholar of Vedas. All the verses where he claims prophecies of mohammad have been refuted on this site. Now u tell me, how will zakir argue against that? Zakir is only good for memorizing verses and their numbers. Even if we go on media, he will find some way or the other, to back out from this. So that is why we are making better plans.

  9. SDC says

    Mr. Waqas u said ” inshah Allah Muslims will rule India again if not us then China would definitely rule you guys” that itself uncovers u r hidden agenda. U have always been violent and barbaric. Yes, the muslims may rule India but only over our dead bodies as we will till the last drop of our blood. We would rather accept matyrdom to submission

    • dharmayoddha says

      who is this waqas who says this? And why should we shed our blood and become martyrs?

      I shed the blood of the mlechhas, to avoid tyhem taking over and ruling India. simple. I am a better warrior than they are.

  10. says

    When do we expect coming of Bhagavan Kalki… an Avatar of present era… a messiah competent to uplift Dharma (righteousness)! In times of strife… when mutual trust amongst each other reaches its lowest ebb… coming of a messiah (Avatar) gets necessitated! Even man gods like Mahavira, Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohammed fail in such circumstances!

    Who shall be Bhagavan Kalki is the biggest question! Coming of a man god coupled with powers of Chanakya (most able administrator in history of mankind) is only solution! Humanity looks forward to such a one… an ordinary mortal that against all odds upholds Dharma (righteousness) and succeeds in re-establishing peace tranquility abound!

    • says

      Instead of waiting for an Avatar to rescue us, let us discover that avatar within ourselves and our united strength. As per Bhavishya Puran, that avatar is still (4.32 lakh – 6000) years ahead. Instead of waiting in false hope as per false story of a false book, let us stand up to protect ourselves by discovering the legend within ourselves.

  11. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, we are trying to spread peace here, not hatred and violence unlike u muslims. The proof for this is u urself said “muslims will take over india”, this is a huge myth and will never happen. No body has the guts to even look at india today. Forgot recently, how we mashed those pakistani terrorists like wavred dogs of march 26 2008 taj hotel attack. Besides what else can be expected from people like u.

    Well its common sense, Waqas, if ur mohammad can presribe camel piss, he mite as well drank it tooo. Its not like he never got sick before. He must have tried. Just like a doctor prescibes medicine, Im pretty sure, if he falls in the same sickness, he would take the same as well. See, today muslims drink camel piss, becuase it is prescribed in ur books, in our Vedas, show me a single verse where it presribes cow urine. We have proof for u muslims which i shown u already.

    And ravi shankar never came for a debate, he was invited by ur retarded parrot fakir naik mbbs for a dialogue. If ravi wanted, he could have said no, but he was man enough to accept challenges unlike ur fakir naik who has been challenged by Arya Samaj and Ali Sina,many times and still hasnt replied.

    As far as ur video goes u sent, the question asked was do u bleev in the oneness of GOD according to quran and Vedas?

    Obviously we all hindus believe and worship one almighty GOD, u would never hear a hindu say we have more than one god. But people have chose to worship HIM in different attributes so that is why u see a large quantity.

    Anything else Mr. Waqas, u want me to refute?

    U still have not refuted my points of the quran:
    1) why allah orders muslims to kill apostles or ex muslims just for a stupid reason of leaving islam

    2)why does allah allow men to have sex with slave women, other than their wife or wives, is slavery not wrong?

    • asma says

      Vik,

      i just took a look at your questions

      In the bhagavad gita there is a part in which Sri krishna tells one of your other gods to strike his brother and he says you should even kill your brothers and sisters if you have to for the right thing, so i dont see why your picking this point

      secondly
      It says for men it is better for them to marry a believing freed slave girl rather than a wealthy woman whom ist a believer so i suggest you to research this

      • adolf says

        @asma,
        srikrishna’s prodding of arjuna to fight is to remind arjuna of his duty. arjuna is a warrior and to refuse to fight when challenged is a deviation from arjuna’s duty.
        Please stop comparing fighting in defence and for a rightful share of his fathers property to killing a person just because he does not believe in muslims foolish ideas.

      • dharmayoddha says

        @asma

        Lord krishna told arjuna to fight against his own brothers to preserve dharma. I use the same ideology to fight against my muslim brothers and sisters to preserve the arya dharma.

        Jai shri ram

  12. Waqas says

    @ Vik

    You know when i started reading your article and when you mentioned ali sina,s challenge i started laughing. Ali sent left lot off email at IRF website asking Dr Zakir for an online debate previously Dr Zakir didnt have much time but finally lot of muslims emailed Zakir top debate Ali sina So dr zakir naik challenged him to go for live debate. Ali sina refused by saying its time consuming, expensive and what can you in two hours ? hahahahahahahahahahahaha what a jerk you dont trust me here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina_ex-Muslim
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha i always give my facts with proofs you will get those videos thedn you would upload them i challenge you right now upoload them right now so i can get convinced i m here to convince you and you are here to convince me put that videos and convince me bro you dont have those videos. i challenge you wil never be able to put those videos.

    Now coming back to my answers you said what God should do tell muslims then leave islam and at the end God will send them in hell. Who are you to tell God what to do and what not . Ok what i do i kill any human being but dont give me punishment becoz if i ve done some thing wrong God will punish me. You would bring your human made law which states a killer should be punished. Then i would say i dont believe in this law so leave me . would you leave me /????? you would say thats a law and you would be arrested and would be punished . Same is in our case, we have our islamic law and we follow that .

  13. Waqas says

    @VIk
    reply to 2nd paragraph:
    when i started reading your 2nd paragraph and you mentioned about Ali Sina’s Challenge i started laughing. bro ViK for your knowledge Ali Sina refused to have a live debate with Dr Zakir i know i know you wont trust me but since you know i always speak witrh facts and proof here is a
    link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina_ex-Muslim
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
    That jerk Ali sina s refused Zakir by saying live debate is expensive time consuming and what can you say in two hours ?? hahaha What a Jerk? Thats your first defeat please at least accept it.

    Now i challenge you to put those videos on internet. I am damn sure you dont have those videos and you know that too. If you have got those video, you would ve posted it same day. hahaha bro you will never be able to put those Videos and thats my open challenge.

    Now coming back to my answer what a idiotic logic you give. Law is Law. you follow it or not Law still remains a Law. Who are you to say If Allah is sensible he could ve said that. Can you tell your God to change things in Vedas. No you cant, your God even cant protect your own books what else he can do. I try to tell in very simple way. your indian law was made by some poiticians right? now according to that if some one steals, loots or kill some one he ll be punished. right?? if i am being inidan refuse to accept that law and say i would steal, loot and kill thats not a bad thing at all in my point of view or if i am doing wrong God would punish me after my death. Would your police leave me ?? they would say its an indian law and it implements on every inidan whether one accept it or nt.
    Bro VIK same goes with Islamic law, it implements on every muslim whether he accept it or not.
    Its just your ego who is stopping you to accept truth but i am damn sure your heart agrees with me

  14. Vik says

    @Waqas,

    it doesnt matter whom mohmmad prescribed camel urine to, the question is why would he prescribe camel urine in the first place to anyone? Was he a doctor? Did he see some medical benefit in camel urine?

    Waqas, u enjoy mouthing about logic, but ur the one who is always illogiccal. U say plucking a fruit from the tree and eating it without killing the tree, is like cutting off a man's hand and eating it. Waqas, when will u grow up, ur applications of logic here are so childish. There is a huge difference between a mans hands cut off and a fruit plucked. The difference is a man's hand will never grow back on, whereas a fruit will. Yes, we can say, eating fruits off of a tree, its like cutting hair of nails, off of a human which doesnt hurt. Well, when i get a haircut or nailcut, i dont feel pain, i dont know about u. But listen, plants or bacteria do not have souls, like animals and humans. Just because plants can sense according to u it doesnet mean they have souls. Even robots, and machines have senses and sensors, does it mean they have a soul? LOL

    Listen all these hindu scriptures u been quoting from are either adulterated and interpolated, so I cant trust any english translations. I only read the direct sanskrit translations. Manu Smriti, Puranas, Ramayan, MahaBharat, all have been changed. The only hindu scripture that has been unchanged are the Vedas (ironically the first and only revealed texts) and not even a single element is changed. And if u enjoy quoting proofs
    then heres proof from the same book manu smriti (original)

    Manusmrithi 5.51
    Anumantaa vishasitaa nihantaa krayavikrayee
    Samskartaa chopahartaa cha khadakashcheti ghaatakaah

    Those who permit slaying of animals; those who bring animals for slaughter; those who slaughter; those who sell meat; those who purchase meat; those who prepare dish out of it; those who serve that
    meat and those who eat are all murderers.

    and heres Vedic proof:
    Breehimattam yavamattamatho maashamatho tilam
    Esha vaam bhaago nihito ratnadheyaaya dantau maa hinsishtam pitaram maataram cha
    Atharvaveda 6.140.2

    O teeth! You eat rice, you eat barley, you gram and you eat sesame. These cereals are specifically meant for you. Do not kill those who are capable of being fathers and mothers.

    So tell me Waqas, are apples and oranges capable of being parents, if i place a male apple with a female apple in a box (if there are genders lol), will they hatch millions of other apples. IF this were the case, every store would only buy 2 apples and all the farmers would have been laid off.

    The rest of ur quotes are all adulterated versions of ramayan, did u know there are 2 different versions on top of that, they are changed. I only trust Vedas to be the supreme. So avoid telling me about puranas, ramayana, manu smritt, etc. I respect those too but only in their real forms.

    As far as ur debate goes of ravi shankar and naik, to me, there was no clear winner and loser, i think they were tie, since they never had any arguments in vane. Nor, did mohammad naik the irf organizer announce the winner or loser. But some of the audience were stupid and #$%@ big time, especially the jackass they carry back the one in white hat and white clothes who was yelling at ravi shankar. Jackasses like him are the cause of riots and dont deserve to live.

    THe rashmi bhai debate, well, I have to blame rashmi bhai for that since he only relied on research ant not scientific facts. The problem is zakir is a doctor and he can fool anyone with his medical knowledge and no one verifies this. IF u saw closely one audience member challenged zakir naik to all his 20 points and zakir said come to irf and debate with my student.

    Every thing u mentioned about history, did happen to some extent. Moghals were keep expanding and we were keep killing them and they killed our men too. Big deal. U may know a jackass like moghal aurenghazib who was a complete p#$@y, tried to convert hindus to islam, but guess wot, he was defeated like a wretched dog.

    Hindus invadeed tibet? Hindus sent their army etc? What history books do u have to claim that. Hindus are not trying to conquer kashmir, but are protecting it from pakistani muslims like u. Kashmir wants to be a nation the way it is but pakistan wants to own it.

    As far as the samjhota express goes, where ur fellow pakistanis got killed, bleev me more than any pakistani or indian, its me who feels enraged and wants to avenge for them. I hate injustice no matter who does it whether pak on india or india on pak. I would want those people to get killed who were behind this samjota express more than anyone on this world. Its not that i liked those pakistanis its about humanity. Pakistanis are nice people too, i know that, but dont think we hindus have done this. But after the taj hotel attack, if we wanted we could have sent a few guys over in pakistan to attack a similar hotel, and kill innocent pakis in return, but we didnt. We chose to kill those terrorist instead. IF A has damaged B, in return B should damage A, not C, D, Or E. Get my point.

    • Waqas says

      @ Vik
      Ans to your paragraph one
      Lol what you do then start eating men;s hair and nail too. LOL there for i asked you to reseach and ask botanist about i. Plants does have soul since it cant be proved scientifically (like any human being’s soul cant be proven scientifically) plants does feel pain, they cry they laugh there are some plants who eats flies too. When would you understand???

      You are again showing your double standard/ If i quote some thing from your books which goes against you then its adulterated but if you say from your books then its facts. If you are not beliving the quotes i mentioned from mahabhartha and musimitri then stop believing those book at all/ you cant jus pick some things what you like .

      another example of double standard:
      when i mentioned about Hindu’s excercises you were the one who said ” brother waqas we are here to discuss Vedas and Quran not hindus and muslims” remember now why are youi saying there are more terrorist in muslims than Hindus??
      ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

      That was your Government responsibility to give protection to those innocent pakistani’s when indian came here we gave them full protection i said every one left without getting a scratch from here but our pakistanis brothers and sisters got burnt to death and your government never apologized. You are aware who burnt them It was bal thakery and his terrorist organization who did all that but you cant take an action against them.

      Pakistani intelligence was not behind mumbai activity but even then your intelligence tried to take revenge and they trained and send persons to attach sri lankan team .

      Now you were comparing your God and our Allah.
      We are all human being right every one is equal right?>?????????
      In Vedas it mentions ” Human kind have been created from four parts of the God. From the head its the brahman from the chest its Shastra from the the thigh its Vehsha business class and from the foot its shoodra.
      Brother simple question whats the sin of a person if he was born in shoodra and whats the good thing about a person if he was born in brahman. Your God has already created cast systems by itsself.
      We all muslims believe on equity. EVery muslim is same. I have seen in news brahamn killed lot of shoodra just because he took bath in brahmans bathroom.

      In Islam every one is equal. We all can go to any mosque we want to .

      Now analyze by yourself, Which religion is giving better teaching and which not.
      and stop believing in those wars too which are mentioned in nahabhartha and other books becoz u urself are not accepting the authenticity of those books. whether accept it totally or dont. You can not jus pick some of your favourite lines and if some thing written goes wrong against you, you start saying its been changed what a joke???
      I m damn sure your heart agrees with me its just your ego who stopping you to accept the truth

    • Waqas says

      @ Vik
      and please ask your colleague to fix this site too. My comments are not publishing properly.

    • says

      Dear Brother, There has been no deletion of any comment from admin side. There was however a change in template used for comments, and hence you may be searching for your comments at a wrong destination. Kindly look if you posted them somewhere else. In worst case, you can post them again. The last post from you in system is dated 2010/03/02 at 3:09 AM.

      Dhanyavad

      • vik says

        @Waqas

        Its is not the admin, something is wrong with ur browser, either restart ur computer or use another browser, I had the same problem too, but it worked after using a diff browser.

    • vik says

      @Waqas

      winning me in a debate, have u learnt to lie like zakir bhai, you have not even refuted my points so how the hell have u won me?

  15. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, u seem to laugh alot but remmeber the one who laughs alot also cries alot at the end.
    I thought zakir naik only debates popular personality. I have never heard of rashmi bhai prior to watching his debate with zakir. Even if u google search or wikipedia, u wont find out about rashmi bhai. Even william campbell, i hardly heard of him.

    the only personaltiy is ravi shankar, show me how did he lose the debate as far as i remmeber there was not decision or verdict……zakir spokr 1 hour ravi spoke then zakir speaks about ravi then ravi speaks about zakir then question answer session, where was the win lose decision?

    zakir naik only likes live debates and arya samaj even challenged him, I have proof, i can send u the link.

    but ali sina thot that zakir mite have muslim terrorists behind him so he felt insecure for a public debate besides, a 2 hour debate is not enough, so that is why he turned it down. THen i can say the same for zakir that y isnt he accpeting a written debate.

  16. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, again ur relating illogical stuff to the argument, if a poor man steals to feed him self thats moral. But, if a man chooses to leave islam, he wil become a kafir, agree?
    then he will still continue to be friendly with u, but the only difference is that hes no longer muslim, and I think his punishment should be left on GOD, but if GOD himself commands u to murder him or her, I think its stupid. Laws are only good to certain extent. But Waqas, think from ur heart, can this be right? God forbid, but suppose ur muslim friend tomarrow converts to christ or hinduism, but he still continues to respect u and love u, will u be stupid enough to go kill him, just because u follow the stupid law of the quran? Im sorry but ur answer again doesnt impress me, and no need to try, I have asked this question to many muslims either they walked away or they give non moral stupid justiffications like wot ur doing. No one has impressed me. The truth is that is law is stupid and insane and cannot be a word of GOD.

    u still havent justified the slave sex for me. Again I doubt ull be able to justify that.

    • vik says

      @Waqas

      this anology of brahmins coming from the head and shudra from feet doesnt mean iterally. The problem with u is u dont understand the symbolism of the verse. The head is the highest part of our body and feet the lowest. So, this verse shows that being a brahmin is the highest noble professoin, then being a warrior. It is like a ladder which a shudra has to climb. SO the professions are ranked by its nobiltiy. Just like how a doctor is more of a noble profession than a factory worker. similarly in that sense. So no one can directle become brahmin, one has to be shudra first and gain knowledge and work up his way. This is just like a student entering skool, then he completes his graduate studies, and finally PHD. He has gone of the ladder. This caste system is not meant to discriminate people like the way evil people are doing or another misconception is that one can only be a brahmin if his dad is. Thats false, one shudra is freee to do anything. ANd all brahimins kshatriyas, vaishays and shudras are equal in humanity and for GOD. But people discriminated them and made this evil caste system when it is only a task chart.

  17. says

    Dear Brother, There has been no deletion of any comment from admin side. There was however a change in template used for comments, and hence you may be searching for your comments at a wrong destination. Kindly look if you posted them somewhere else. In worst case, you can post them again. The last post from you in system is dated 2010/03/02 at 3:09 AM. We keenly await your comments.

  18. vik says

    @Waqas

    And what about shivaji, go look up history of shivaji who scared the shit oout of aurengazib and made him piss his pants. Aurengasib was a moghal with massive army and still shivaji and his diciples managed to put an end to this moghal gay empire. SO please get ur facts straight. Aurengazib sucked shit and even his son betrayed him cus he knows his dad is a useless piece of garbage.

  19. R-H says

    @ Vik..

    Brother..
    Its a waste of time to argue with the fanatics like Waqas who support Killing of the person who leaves a religion and says that in Islamic court its valid..
    Look at Waqas's comments.. he said : "but if a person say crow is white how can i explain that idiot its not black its white…."
    See this is what he is doing..
    First Zakir ji said that crow is white..
    Now This guy is explaining us that "Idiot its not black.. its white"…

    Look at his comment again!!! LOL

  20. R-H says

    @ Waqas..
    You said : "ill be back soon with scientific errors in Vedas. Be ready for that …"

    Before looking into Scientific errors in Vedas.. please go through your own books(Quran, Hadiths…etc)

    1000 mistakes and contradictions in Quran..
    http://www.1000mistakes.com/1000mistakes/index.ph

    Scientific errors in Quran..
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/contradi

    Contradictions in Quran..
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra

    Quran & Science ..
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/quran/quran-science%2

  21. vik says

    @Waqas

    show me a single verse in Vedas, Waqas, in sanskrit not english translation, that autenticates the caste system and tells us to respect brahmins and abuse shudras….I challenge u on this, if u cant provide evidence, then just shut up on this matter. Brahimins, kshatriyas, are just professions listed by GOD. Anyone can be them, and shudras are like fresh fish on the boat, they have to advance themselves towards being a brahmin, kashtria or vishya. So, no one is born brahmin or kshtriya, everyone is born shudra. THe whole analogy, of brahmins being born from the head and shudras being born from feet doesnt mean in terms of humanity. IT means in terms of the most noble deed. The highest noble profession is brahman, but a person who is a brahmin in terms of humanity is equal to a shudra. But as time went on, people never took this and they did the opposite.

  22. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, the truth is that Quran was written by a bunch of rabage dogs (arabs) and not GOD. Otherwise, GOD would not tell u to murder apostles and enslave women in order to have sex with them. Why would GOD supply 72 whoors or virgins in heaven? Did GOD train u on earth to take care of 72 virgins. Guys cant handle 7 girls these days……how will u handle 72.

    One more thing Waqas, Allah sits on a throne, is Allah that weak that he needs a suport of a throne, since allah sits on the throne, logically this shows the throne is bigger than allah (why this contradiction, Waqas?)

    Waqas, listen, we dont have to respect the quran, but u shuld respect Vedas since its the book of ur ancestors.

  23. R-H says

    @ Waqas…

    You are quoting all non sense from unauthentic scriptures….
    If you believe that these unauthentic scriptures are correct …

    Then Read this article…:

    Prophet Muhammed was a reincarnation of Demon Tripurasur :

    http://bvml.org/tmi/SS_bpatpm.html

    you should believe in this also!!!

  24. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, please give me quotes from Vedas only because according to me they are the only truth. ANd please give me regular sanskrit quotations since there are many inccorrect english translations out there. The best english quotations are from Arya Samaj, so if u want to give me english Vedic quotes then only arya quotes not some stupid western translations

  25. vik says

    @R-H

    brother R-H, ur answer is half right half wrong, u are right in the sense that brahmins, warriors,etc
    are classes of profession, not castes, but ur wrong when u say brahmins are born from gods head and shudras from feet. THis whole thing is a myth, GOD is formles no vedic verse says that brahmins are born from GOD's head and shudra's feet. Please read the article posted on this site called "There is no caste system in Vedas" and all of ur doubts be clear.

    • R-H says

      @ Vik…

      Thanks brother..
      I read the article "There is no caste system in Vedas" by Agniveerji …

      Now all my doubts got answered…

  26. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, ramayan was a historic epic, i dont understand y are u bring this in. There were many agrreements and disagreement i had with ram and raavan. Ramayan is like a story for people to learn things from, but no one lives by it. I told u before tooo Waqas, this is a Vedas site so please talk of Vedas only. I bleev in Ramayan means I liked some of its teachings but it doesnt mean one should live by them. For example, polygamy is supported by islam and unsupportd by hinduism according to Vedas. In ramayan, rams dad had 3 wives. He went against Vedic recommendations and eventually led to his destruction. THis is a moral telling us humans that one shoudlnt do polygamy. Besides this sita stuff, is not a law for us to follow its just a story to teach us. So please talk of Vedas only with acurate explanations, and i dont want ur translations of Vedas, only the ones done by arya will be accepted.

    • syed says

      Arya can you put some light on…since Vedas are very old is is possible that all the revelation of it are kept good,meaning dont you think its lost by time I heard that only 1% of veda is left as of now and the rest is lost by the time.. let me know.

      Thanks,

  27. vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, I agree a person should be punished for commiting a crime according to its law. But Logically the punishment should make sense too. There are many countries with whom I disagree with their law punishments.

    So, if a person steals he should be put behind bars. If a person murders, since that mudered person cannnot come back the murderer deserves a severe punishment like a death sentence. but u cant give someone a death punishment for steal somthing it will be illogical. Every punishment should make sense acccording to its crime.

    I am not against the islamic law. I agree islam has the right to punish someone, for a paricular crime. But I am against the punishment given to a person for leaving islam. I stongly think a person should not pay by his her life for such minor crime even if ur religion means alot to u. THis is a sick punishment and out of logic. We hindus in our Veds dont hav such punishment? Do we? We are only told to kill criminals and terrorists that are a threat to society. But if a person leaves islam, how is he she threatening………..this is a stupid defence and logic…..So again Im sorry but u failed to justify this and sex of slavery.

  28. R-H says

    @Waqas..

    Quoting wrong things in our scripture does not make you win the debate…

    You must give justification for the evil things in your scriptures!!

    you said : "May Allah help you to choose the correct path. .."
    Allah has already helped us..
    we are in correct path only by not falling into the trap of Allah..

  29. Waqas says

    @VIK and all other
    As far as books are concern, you want me read books of your own choice . LOL even Vedas you want me to read the translation of your pigs arya samaj. I know all these books are crap ramayan mahabhartha missimuroto purana every thing is full of crap big time bullshit and full of lie and false imaginary stories. but why i say you have a double standard because if in this book something matches your agreement you say thats fine if it does not you say it has been adulterated.
    how is it possible Sita was kidnapped and was not raped yea i agree she was not raped she willingly had sex with Raavan and i think thats why Ram asked her to prove her innocence.
    Kali maa statue of a naked lady and people sacrifice their virgin daughters on her

    • dharmayoddha says

      I can say the same thing about koran and hadith. Quote,” every thing is full of crap big time bullshit and full of lie and false imaginary stories.” Unquote. Prove me koran and hadith is not crap.

      Your self appointed prophet, had sex with a 6 year old girl, ayesha, young enough to be his daughter, so he was paedophile child molestor. Beti chod.

      he also had sex with his daughter in law, zainab, so he was bahu chod.
      BAHU AUR BETI CHOD.
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  30. Waqas says

    @SDC
    you are stupid and fool . You dont have manners how to do a debate. you just used a word with Allah cant i use word with your lords??????????????I am only going to reply you last time i will never ever reply you again. You said if only one sect is going to Jannah Why Allah made 72 sects . You tell me why your god cantg protect his own books like miimuri purana mahabhartha ramayan . You tell me If Brahman has the highest profession and most noble persons Why they they kill shoodra's these days if a shoodra take a bath or try to enter in their temple since your colleagues are admitting that happening but say its not mentioned in Vedas and God does not permit to do so, SO you tell me why are they doing so ??? i could ve said if god did not permit that why he does not stop Brahman doing so. You will never be able to justify. our debate here is about scriptures not about hindu's or muslims and your brain is too young for this debate. So please stay out if even if you wont i will never your comments again what ever you write

  31. Aman Jha says

    @waqar, sri sri ravishankar withdrew those books coz' he realized that you fools would not be able to comprehend it…you people simply can't understand the meaning of peace and tolerance, how can you comprehend that book , Man!!! and as far as the book by that Fakir nayak is concerned, i agree that it sold millions of copies and continuing to do so…Boss, india has hordes of madarsaa-bred semi-literates like you , so obviously they will buy them..and since your strategy of womb to womb infection continues, more and more prints will be publised in the near future…all in the hope of those 72 prostitutes ..ha ha h a
    And yes, we are not cowards since we don't send terrorists to kill innocent civilians as your govt. has been doing since last 20 yrs. we screwd you in 1947, 1965, 1971,1999. but its really difficult to straighten the Dog's tail…and yes in one of your blogs you mentioned that if not you then Inshallah china will conquer us….Why??? You don't have that much of strength in your circumcised dick that you want china to do that!!!!

  32. Aman Jha says

    @agniveer,vik,R-H,
    Brothers, these muslims are the victim of identity crisis and inferiority complex. They know they are converts and their ancestors were all hindus. So in order to prove that they are the real muslims , they keep on doing these things. Look at the bull shit logics that he has given. ……..

    you said you are disagree with many of other country's law system. Who are you? who do you think you are? who are you to disagree with other country's law system?? If death sentence is given for a person who smuggles cocaine in sigapore by sitting in india who are you to object? are you more patriotic singaporian than those the constituency of Singapore. You say see our Vedas does not allow to kill if a person leaves Hinduism. Being an indian can you ask singapore to change his law. Singapore has its own people they can choose the fate of their own country. Can india ask Singapore to change his law because India is not following that law. I asked you about your country Why indian law gives punishment to a bookie since In UK USA etc its not a crime at law. even if you object wih your indian law and you do that crime do you really think by objecting this you can survived??? J

    ha ha ha . Really these are typical madarsaa bred- literates. so lets not waste our time arguing with him.. look he even promised that he won't comment again…but as i said..you really can't straighten the Dog's tail.

    • salman khan says

      Brother as u dont need to prove ur dad that u r his own son in the sam mannaer we dont need to prove our self as muslim because we ere born muslim and insllah will die as a muslim

      • Peacelover says

        @ salman
        Hi bro your are giving Zakir Naik 2+2 = 4 logic.
        Everyone is born to a father that’s logic.
        Everyone born to a religion that’s illogical. We choose or forced to choose a religion.

        Why born muslim and not born christian, pagan, buddhist, hindu etc??

  33. vik says

    @Waqas

    Listen, islam only grows due to the birthrate of muslims babies. An average muslim couple has 6 babies. i know a family who has 11 kids. Now when u have crazy figures like this obviously the peoplulation will go up. Well the problem is many muslims countries have banned non muslim content for example faith freedom is banned in pak and saudi arabia, because muslims are scared that islam will be exposed and people will leave it. That shows their confidence as muslims.

    • Waqas says

      @VIK
      Show me the reference where you get this statistics from . I told you i got it from Guinnes you tell me where did you get this statistics from ????
      By doing a personal attack on me by callin me sick and fool you cant make yourself right . In the presence of all hindus here you can support their arguments and they can yours but it does not mean you are saying right.
      Ok where are those video . i wanna see them where arabs killed Iranian . ????????
      looks like you would bring Hindus back look like a joke to me . The stats i gave you i also told you the refernces but you always give baseless evidence.You have not uploaded the debate of your pigs arya samaj and allies of zakir naik???? i know you will never be able to but still asking

    • says

      1. So now you shifted from pig to ass. I do not understand if you have special hatred or love for these innocent animals that you keep including one animal or other in your language.

      2. Thanks for appreciating my website design and note-taking abilities. I believe if Muslims also start taking notes of Zakir's lectures and Quran, they would be able to reject a lot of trash through internal contradictions.

      3. Can you provide reference to which edition of Guiness book states the claims you are making. And does it state that highest number of people convert to Islam. Please provide web site link or page number and edition.

      4. By Indian Health system I implied Ayurveda, Yoga and Pranayam. Even the islamic namaz is derived from traditional Vajrasana practices.

      5. Well China and Japan are much closer to Vedas through Buddhist route. In fact Buddhism is yet another branch of Vedic culture. Read the texts and beliefs and you would find line by line adoption of Vedic texts.

      6. If 92% believe something very strongly but still do not follow it, it means either external pressure or fear or deserving the name of animals that you keep using in your language. Hindus do not believe in religion in the sense Muslims believe. Hindus believe in humanity more than anything and everything else is secondary. So Hindu religion and humanity are synonymous. It is only the arabic perverts who believe that blind faith in one particular book and eplilepsy patient alone is passport to paradise of virgins, else burn in hell forever.

      Anyways, hope you would show me from Quran and Hadiths, how do you justify the use of pig and ass in your language. Is it halal? If not, you would also be our partners in hell for defying Islam

      • Waqas says

        i know by using these words dumbass and pig i am not doing a right thing i just want you to feel the pain of those words. Over here your vedic brother call me and my nation bastards did you ever ask them that why do they use this language ? did you ask them if these are in their vedas?? you never asked them thats what shows you are biased toward your hindu brothers. talha and arya havind debate i never interfered in their debate. As far as refernce is concern Guinnes world recirds 2006 edition 2007 edition 2008 edition 2009 edition the chapter of religion and you would get your all answers.
        Now you are saying Buddhist is route of vedas you dont even blieve in the authenticity of your own books ramayan , mahabhartha missmurity purana . you all say it has been adulterated so just in order to point score you started connecting yourself with Buddhist.
        Did you ask for the justification from your hindu brothers who used word like dog bastard pervert etc In vedas. ??????
        At least 92 percent strongly believe in the authenticity of their own religion. Look at you religion 50 percent that means half . Who do you want me to belive you 50 percent or the rest 50 percent. I know you would ask for the refernce too go to gallop survey web site and you would have your answers.
        You tell me 50 percent people of your religion belive the authenticity of Hinduism, do you really think all 50 percent live thier lives the way its written in vedas. before pointing some one you should see your own home first .

  34. Waqas says

    @SDC
    i thought not to reply you but as i said you have a small brain and it proved right.
    Let me explain you in simple way again as i said we are here to hindu and muslim scriptures not hindus and muslims. whatever a hindu does not mean its in Vedas as the same whateever a muslim does, does not mean its in Quran.
    now you asking me sunni shia kill each other. does that mean its in Quran ??
    even if brahman killed shoodra's and still killing .did ur god ask brahman to kill shoodra's or its in your vedas .???? now i m pasting a link showing hindus killing christians so tell my where in vedas your god has asked you to do so
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIZM9hAoKfM
    i think if you will have a little bit sense you will not reply

  35. vik says

    @Waqas

    Forget, rashmibhai, its zakir naik who sets up the format in such a way that the opponnet doesnt get enough time to refute zakir naik. AND remember, at the end of the debate Waqas, an audience challenged ur zakir since he found a rebuttal to all those 20 points he threw at rahsmi bahi but zakir refuesed to accept his challenge. Zakir naik can make up lies about medical science and fool people like rashimibahi. He even fooled dr william, by saying arabic means different in quran and languages, otherwise go check out the debate analyzed by ali sina of naik and campbell.

  36. vik says

    @Waqas

    We all on this site agree with wotever Mr.Agniveer tells us because he is 100% correct in all his articles with authentic proofs.

  37. says

    So you know the reference! So less women would go to Paradise but it does not mean there would be less women in Paradise. Interesting! On earth, men:women ration is 1:1. So I do not understand your mathematics.

    And 72 virgins would come from where? Where are they currently?

  38. vik says

    @Agniveer

    Namaste

    Very well said Sir, and no need to talk to him further, Waqas is a corrupted fool and he doesnt know wots wrong and wots right. He is trying his level best to refute my point of justifcation for the Quran allowing muslims to kill ex muslims for a stupid reason of leaving islam, but as usual, he fails in rebutting me. He is sick and he is defending this stupid law of islam

  39. Arya says

    @Waqas
    1) You wrote-"we muslims are strong there for we are also allowed to have four women at one time". It means muslim women have less power than man. So it is clear that if a muslim man equals to four muslim women in sexual power then muslim men can never enjoy sex because at a time one man can be engaged with one woman and woman has 1/4 power than man. So in this life atleast you can never get sexual satisfaction. May be in your jannat, as you said, you will not be a normal human being, so you might get 72 sex organs in order to get satisfaction by enjoying sex with 72 women at a time. But I wonder, why did not Allah create muslim women so powerful that man need not go to second and also men would not to be created so abnormal as mentioned above!
    In Hindus, men and women have got equal power and hence do not require multiple partners/organs!
    2) One more thing regarding power of muslims!
    Muhammad was believed to have sexual strength equal to 30 men. But he was not been able to impregnate 10 of his wives out of 11! Moreover he died when he was making love to Aisha [Bukhari 7:62:144]. Ibn Hisham, the great muslim scholar writes-"….that he heard Aisha say: “The apostle died on my bosom during my turn: [of having sex with]. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms"
    So one can imagine the power(?) of muslims if their prophet (power=30 muslim men) could not match the power of a girl of 19!

  40. R-H says

    @Waqas…

    You are showing some videos which shows foolishness of some people..
    But you have to quote the exact verses in Vedas which tells all this things.. and I am sure you may not be able to show it, since it is not present in Vedas at all.

    But I can quote from Quran And Hadiths the evils in Islam…

    Ok.. Lets have some fun…
    You have showed us many videos .. now this is for you!!!
    watch and enjoy…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwnxLCG7dQQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXiVVYYTbE&fe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esfalu6wm2Q&fe

  41. Waqas says

    VIK
    Quote me a single Verse in Quran which ask kidnapper to rape the kidnapped girl.
    Rude behaviour of mine your vedic brothers calling me bastards here. You were the first who called Arabs Dog.. I know by calling your arya samaj pig and dog i am not doing a right thing too but i just say because i want you to feel the pain of those words. Your vedic brother over here abused god and Muhammad here . You or the agniveer never asked them about their language. Agniveer never told them not to portray Vedas or Hinduism but if i use this kind of language i have been criticized by saying that,s what Islam teaches us . You all have a double standard.
    I am asking you and i even asked agniveer if you can not bear my comments tell me i will stop visting this web site again. If you dont want t debate just tell me in simple words i will never publish my post here and then you are free to abuse Zakir or islam the way you want to

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      islam allows one to rape kidnapped or captive women. Here is the proof:

      Here is a reference permitting to rape captive women:

      Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property, – desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise. S. 4:24 Y. Ali

      The above passage emphatically allows for the raping of women that are taken captive, even if these captives happened to be married!

      Now shut up, and stop lying , the verse of quran is before u

      • Vik says

        @Waqas

        heres another verse that allows a kidnapper to rape a captive or kidnapped woman.

        Brother Arya has shown u this verse earlier:

        Quran [33:50] states-
        "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid
        their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of
        war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and
        aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated [from Makka]

        with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the
        Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers [at
        large]; We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the
        captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no
        difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful."

        Moreover in Bani Qureja incident, Rehana (wife of a Jewish man, killed by muslims) refused marriage offer given by Muhammad. Then Muhammad kept her as his sex slave.[Please refer sirat un nabi by Shibli]
        .

  42. Waqas says

    @VIk
    The links that you sent where it shows that Arabs are killing Iraninans. It was political protest which happened after general elections.
    VIk i knwo you are ashamed of your self after watching the links i sent you and therefor you are gathering information from youtube to Melaine Islam . Bro that was not your fault. You should not be ashamed of yourself. yea you should be ashamed of your nation

  43. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, first off, this video is fake and that person in the video is some stupid moron that i dont even know. Secondly, our scipture doesnt permit this so dont bark at me.

    The word pedophelia……..became famous after the deeds of ur prophet mohammad. I can send u news and articles where muslim fathers rape their own daughters and grand daughters in law.

    So, U are showing stupid videos, because u know u can no longer justify satanic verses of the quran.

  44. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, so this means u would choose to support a religoin that allows rape on captive women. I can imply this verse to many people but I dont want to humiliate u in public. So its better, to admit that quran is not the word of GOD, since it allows rape on captive or slave women, and also allows killing ex muslims………..so if u can justify this……..the debate is still on..otherwise u have to admit u lost.

    choice is urs?

  45. Arya says

    @Waqas
    Any proof people in this video are hindu? They may be muslims also. Biggest problem with Pakis is that they think India to be a Hindu nation just as they are islamic. You should know that India has almost 15% muslims and some areas, these so called minorities are actually in majority.
    Everybody should condemn this act of cruelty. Even if this act was done by hindus, they are not ordered to do so according to their Vedas. But when muslims do so, they always have one thing to say that 1man=4women according to Quran! See my previous comments on power of muslims in general and Muhammad in particular and keeping women as sex slaves .

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      waqas, who in world told u that Vedas have been changed, even the worlds biggest scientist couldnt prove 1% change. Max Muller himself said that this is indias greatest miracle that Vedas remained unchanged till today. Yes, there are many bad translations of Vedas, but bad translations mean people didnt explain the exact meanings of their verses. even the quran has bad translations, that is why ur zakir bahi said only read translations by yusif ali. Similarly, only arya Vedas translations are correct. So, as far as quran goes, there is a new quran in america called al furqan that is changed. SO who said quran is unchanged? At lease Vedeas are still 100% available today as they were billions of years ago. SO my advice is reject a sexual rapist slavery religion like islam and return to ur roots.

      • Vik says

        @@Waqas
        Islam permits a man to have sex with a female slave or prisoner in al ahzab verse 33.050 of the quran. How did u prove me wrong? U are the one ruuning away. THis verse in the quran clearly states illicit sexuality is is morally wrong. So go prove me wrong? As far sati goes, I challenge u to show me a single verse that sanctions sati, and please use a good english translation of Arya samaj not some garbage translation or just give me the verse in sanskrit directly, but dont use any garbage translation otherwise when i refute u ur gonna keep barking that i have double standards.

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          Waqas, im not talking shit, ur careless for picking out stupid translations, the whole world knows wikipedia articles contain fakes too. I told u, when ever i pick something from quran, i always use yusif ali translation, ok u tell me wot is the best quran translator and i promise to use references from there henceforth. For the verse u provided, number 1, its translation given is wrong. Number 2, its not from an authentic source. Waqas, i told u many times only arya sources please, u can get them at vedicbooks.com, everything else on internet or outside is garbage waqas. If i want, i can give u garbage translations too. AND wikipedia translaton, is done my max muller and ralph griffith, since when did they become hindu?

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            i do not belive in the 100 percent authenticity of wikipedia too but you know that the information provided in wikipedia is by one of your own site . i have never said the translation you are bringing of Quran is wrong. it does not matter whom translation you brought here of Quran the things is I cant find a good translation of Vedas on net. It should be available on internet so people can read and analyze it. The web site you referred is just shopping site . I have to order a book sitting in pak which is quite impossible for me . Instead of wasting time here abusing Zakir and saying bad thing about Islam you, arya agniveer should make a website where we can find the authentic translation of Vedas. Agni could ve done that too. you know yourself more than 70 percent Hindu's are not following Vedas at all. They believe more in idol worship, false and imaginaryb stories of Ramayan mahabhartha and raam sita . At least bring them on a right track. Agniveer is a fitna whose purpose is to create a fight between muslims and hindus . Instead of searching where zakir naik took his resources from , he should work on his own hindu brothers which he is not doing at all.
            Hope you would understand what i am trying to say

          • Vik says

            @Waqas,
            listen brother, u gotta be fair in presenting quotes, because im telling u now, there are many bad translations of Vedas out there, in fact, all the ones on the net are bad, there is a site of vedas but the problem is its in sanskrit, and I feel u cant read sanskrit. See i would never bring bad translations of quran to u. If u feel Yusif Ali is a bad translator, then I promise not to quote from him again, but let me know who is authentic according to u, and i promise to only read that source. Now, for Vedas, so far, only Arya Samaj is a universal recognized institution for interpreting accurate vedic translations. U told me to justify sati, but waqas, sati is evil and therefore it cannot be justified. But it is also not sanctioned in the vedas. We arent against muslims only, we are against anyone who misinterprets Vedas. Vedas only have one pure meaning nothing else.

          • Waqas says

            VIK
            so therefor i am saying instead of wasting time here ask your arya samaj to publish correct translation of Vedas on internet. I have no objection with yousaf ali translation . you tell me if you want to convince me about vedas how should i believe until unless i read your scriptures . If i ask you to read quran in arabic can you do so ?? i cant read sanskirt so instead of wasting time here help your arya samaj to put the correct english translation of Vedas so one can read it and analyze it. Agniveer spend too much time making a website against Zakir and he is not going to get even 1 percent benefit of it. he could ve spent the same time in publishing correct translation of Vedas too but he did not. that assholes main aim is to create rift between muslims and hindus and he is succeeding in it with the people like you .
            you know when i called your brahman dog, and called him dumb ass and pig he came up and said thats what islam teches you. You called arab dog right?? i think aman jha called me bastard but he never went to say to you or to aman jha "is that vedas teaches you". Being an owner of the web site he should be biased but he is not he support ali sina comments he support a qadiyani comments just because they are sying things against Islam . These kind of persons should be killed publicly.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Translating Vedas is not an easy task. First one as to make a translation and then pass it on to experts to analyze. Well so far we only have yajur Veda and samVeda translated, but the rest is still pending. Waqas, I dont swear randomly at people, if they do anything bad, they deserve my disrespect. Yes, only those arabs are dogs who have killed innocent people and who came 1000 years ago and invaded india forcing millions of hindus to convert. Even brahmins who are bad too i disrespect them. Otherwise, there are some really nice arabs and brahmins in this world. Vedas teaches us to respect people, but if our opponent shows no respect then I have to disrespect too. The biggest benefit we got From Agniveer's site is that he exposed zakir naik. I knew zakir was wrong in the first place but I was just waiting for someone to expose him authentically.

    • Waqas says

      Ganga has antibacterial properties?? hahaha i think the below link will help you out understanding about your holy water. anti bachterial properties hahaha brother river Ganga is considered to be the dirtiest river in the world. and thats your holy water. LOL
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganges#Pollution_and
      and look at our holy water mashah Allah Zam Zam. it clearly comes from of the holy land of saudi Arabia and we don not even mineralized it but still its mashah Allah more pure and more healthy than a normal mineral water.
      Dr Masaru Emoto the worlds famous japanese scientist has said the same about Zam Zam . You can even go to his own web site and see his comments about Zam Zam

    • Arya says

      @Waqas
      You even dont know how your books are referred! 8 and 9 are Volume and not the book!
      1. Vol 8, book 82:817
      2. Vol 9, book 89:253
      What about the claims of Shia for their separate Quran, most of which is not available. Dont try to drag them now. Better you talk of Sunni Quran and Hadith.
      What about those muslims who died as shia. Will they go to heaven or hell?

  46. Arya says

    @Waqas
    If you trust US reports then read and watch liberation of Bangladesh.
    Indeed we are brave. We did not force any minority to convert to hinduism. On the other hand stage performer Zakir Naik in India says anything what he wants in order to propagate Islam. Do you have guts to let an Arya allow preach his Dharma in your country? Why is propagation of non islamic religions in muslim countries prohibited? Why is that hindus in Pakistan are just 1.8% now, when they were much more in 1947? Muslims have cleaned up all hindus from kashmir and still those bastards want azadi. This is a typical muslim coward mentality.

  47. Aman Jha says

    @ waqas. Dear, going thru some recent threads by u , all i can conclude is that u r simply devoid of all the logics and crafts to have a discussion with learned people. So, do update urself with those you tube videos instead of gaining some knowledge. gud luck ! god bless you!!

  48. R-H says

    @WAQAS…

    Now coming to scriptures…

    You have already raised a doubt on Vedas that it supports Sati and the link I have given shows that there is no such thing in Vedas…
    I have done my job and proved there is no Sati in Vedas….

    Brother ,
    Now please explain all these verses in Quran :

    Qur'an:9:88
    Qur'an:9:5
    Qur'an:9:112
    Qur'an:9:29
    Qur'an:9:14
    Qur'an:8:65
    Qur'an:9:38
    Qur'an:2:193
    Qur'an:8:5
    Qur'an:4:100
    Qur'an:4:102

    Vigins ………….

    Quran 78:31
    As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and
    vineyards, and high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing
    cup.
    Quran 44:51-55
    …Yes and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)
    Quran 52:17-20
    …They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris
    (virgins) we shall wed them…
    Quran 55:56-57
    In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched
    before. Then which of the favors of your Lord will you deny ?"
    Quran 55:57-58
    Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favors of your Lord
    will you deny ?"

    If these translation are wrong please provide the correct translations or links…as I have showed you & proved that Vedas do not promote Sati..

    Also please prove that this is wrong and give the correct explaination :
    http://www.islamreview.com/articles/islamicheaven

    Brother waiting for your explaination..

  49. Waqas says

    @ in which debate or lecture Zakir naik Muhammad a brahman.
    Zakir can be wrong, Zakir can be fraud but Muhammad (PBUH) cant be.

    • Waqas says

      @R_H
      i only call those brahmans dog whom you are against too. Those Brahmans who thinks Shoodra s are untouchables . they cant enter in their Temles. they cant eat or sit with them .
      Youw own Vedic bro VIK called them dog too so i called them too.

      • Vik says

        @Waqas

        if a brahmin discriminates shudras and kills innocent people, then he is not a brahmin since he violates vedic teachings. Not only brahmins, every human is suppose to respect women and others and apply brother and equality amongst others. The brahmins u see today are victims of illteracy since they offended the holy teachings of Vedas

        • Waqas says

          Why only AryA samaj are correct why not these Brahmans ? who would prove them wrong. I think in that case despite of arguing here you should argue with Brahamans and bring them on your track .
          answer my question VIK if some muslims or Arabs do something wrong You relate them to Islam and if Brahman who are honoured to have a highest profession do some thing wring you say they are victims if illiteracy and offend the teaching of Vedas.
          Why do u have a double standard ??

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            I agree many brahmins are not following Vedas properly. Majority of brahmins cannot translate vedas accurately since they are very dificullt to translate and requires a profesional training and expertese. All india knows that only Arya Samaj are the only professionals of vedas since they made procedures for one to follow for the real acccurate translations. I am not biased or double standards, I am against anyone who gives wrong explanations of Vedas whether hes a muslim, brahmin, other hindus,christinas,etc. I even argue with brahmins too telling them that some things they are doing are against vedic teachings. All they say is dont worry, I am stilll learning Vedas from arya samaj sects and very soon be a 100% vedic follower. So this proves even brahmins agaree that only Arya translaterors are accurate. Everyone else is garbage like zakir naik or max muller or other illiterate brhamins. only ARYA SAMAJ is accurate

          • says

            Zakir Bhai states that one should not judge a car by its driver. So why you are providing vague allegations, and not directly refuting the points made in the articles in this site. If you would give bogus examples of what is wrong in Hindu society, obviously one can find 1000 times more such examples in an ideology which has highest number of terrorists and almost all top terrorists as its followers. It would be better if you could restrict only to points made in the articles. But you or Naik or IRF know that all that has been written is backed by evidences and facts, and hence you have no reply whatsoever. So you are indulging in bogus talks.

            For example, Naik simply cheated from books of Qadiani word to word. Is it not plagiarism and a crime? Why is he ashamed to give reference of the original book? Simply because then other Muslims would start hating him – as Qadiyanis are considered Kafirs? And if he has committed such a mistake, why does he not have his hands chopped off, as per Shariat (the punishment for a thief)? Why does he not issue an apology letter and start including name of Qadiyanis as source of all his writings on comparative religions?

          • Waqas says

            @Agniveer
            Agni u r an idiot and real fool . you could not answer my previous questions that i asked from you and now you come again with your bullshit questions. ???
            the question you asked me about giving bogus examples of Hindu society?scroll back and see who started first that was your own bro VIK but you would never ask him you would never say to him the lines you say to me. When i call dog to your brahman;s , call you dumb ass and used other words you came up to me and said thats what Islam teaches you. Vik called arab Dogs, me and my nation have been called bastards here on the same by your hindu brothers did you ask them or tell them if Vedas teaches you this?? you did not . You did not even mention a word about it.
            being an owner of this web site you should be unbiased . you created a topic according to your research now leave it on the debaters . let us decide who wins or who does not and if you need to debate too no problem i am ready to debate with you one on one or otherwise keep your dirty stinky ass outside of this topic.
            what proof you are talking about ? i challenged you to put those videos online and you said you would. so where are those videos ???????Whether the resources said by zakir are copied from a qadiyani ? why do you have a soft corner for qadiyani;s they are qadiyanis have not convert in hinduism. you are just supporting qadiyanis and ali sina argument because they speak against Islam thats it.
            You are a real loser agni i dont think you even deserve to come on this page. i think just sit back and make sure there is not nay problem in the web site thats it dont rub your ass here with bullshit questions and illogic statements.

          • says

            1. Dear Brother, your language exemplifies what Zakir Naik and his followers imply by islam being religion of 'submission' and 'humility'

            2. Kindly read the article, and find references to Zakir Naik's stealing from Qadiyani resources. Kindly explain what justifies this act of his, which should have his hands chopped off as per Shariat. (Zakir himself admits Shariat to be best law!)

            3. I am neither supporting or opposing Qadiyanis. I have simple given evidence that Zakir Naik has stolen ALL his material line-by-line and word-to-word from a Qadiyani book written 50 years ago. Now contents of this book are as per Qadiyani beliefs but considered Shirk as per other Muslims and especially by Zakir Naik's own ideology. Thus Zakir should:
            a. Acknowledge that he has stolen from Qadiyani book.
            b. Admit that he believes in Qadiyani ideology
            c. Clearly mention in his books and articles and on IRF site that all material are sourced from Qadiyani book (by Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi)
            d. Have his hands chopped off for stealing from a book without permission and deceiving everyone.

            Instead of displaying how many abuses you know, kindly appeal for the above in Zakir Naik forums.

            May peace be upon you!

          • Vik says

            @Waqas
            Waqas, why are u crying, u know very well u lost to me in this debate, u failed to give me a moral rebuttal on my 2 points of islam apostles and sex slavery, now u have nothing to say but just bark randomly at me or other hindus, and u show no respect to elders like Mr.Agniveer, u should be thankful to him that he let u open ur big mouth on his site. Waqas, u have any idea where u came from, it was the arab invaders that forcibly converted ur coward ancestors to islam, and the result is u. If ur ancestors didnt kiss the feet of arabs, u would have been a sensible person today rather than defending a sex based religion, and a heaven where one gets 72 whores.

          • Aman Jha says

            @ waqas.
            i called you a bastard only becoz' you called Sri Sri Ravishankar a dumb ass. It was you, who started with unconstitutional language in this debate. just scroll back and check it yourself!!!!
            Afterall, One Can't Fight With Bows & Arrows, If The Enemy Is Laden With Kalashnikovs!!!!
            We learnt a lot from that Dialogue-turned-debate fiasco, wherein that Parrot Nayak Backstabbed Sri Sri Ravishankar, who was only trying to reduce animosity b/w the two communities.

          • Aman says

            @ waqas
            Brother since your quran sanctions to have upto four wives, tell me how would you react if your father brings any other woman/women in your house other than your mother as a legally wedded wife? I will not take up the issue of concubines and sex-slaves!
            . how would you react if your father sleeps wid other women, leaving your mom as mute spectator to his sexual raunches…and pls don't put up you-tube links saying that the same things happen in india too!
            I AM ASKING THIS ONLY AND ONLY WITH REFERENCE TO QURAN.
            Waiting eagerly for your reply, brother!

  50. Waqas says

    @ Arya
    You said where it shows High cast and low Caste in one of the link news presenter clearly states that low caste women were stripped and beaten . In of the video where villagers beating a thief your reports states they did it to him because he belonged to a low caste system. In one of the video your hindu leader admitting that we burnt churches of Christians . What else proof do you need from hinduism ???

  51. Waqas says

    @VIK
    Captive means not only kidnapped . I admit my english is not that good but i think your english is good i know you were aware the other meaning of Captive too. Captive means slave too.
    But you intentionally used it for your Own interest and to melaine Islam. In that era, there was custom of having slaves, Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) and his companions(may Allah be pleased with them) freed many slaves but in order to do sex with slave, Slaves permission was required. Havin Sex with slaves was prohibited. and that's the verse from Quran which states that
    Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      brother, i have quoted verse 33.050 from al ahzab, and now u bring me verse 24:33. Anyways if u dont like the word kidnapp. Suppose A man has a war with ur house, and he wins and takes ur sister. I s she not a prisoner? Is she not a captive? Is she not enslaved? Ok Forget that, logically think from ur heart, is it good to have sex with someone other than ur wife? I dont care about eras. Today the era is of drug dealing and raping women and robbing banks, then wot do u expcet allah to send a revealtions where he says fine u can take drugs u can rape women u can rob banks? LOL

      If quran is the final word of GOD, all its verses should be applicable in all eras. We consider Vedas to be the word of GOD, then why did GOD prohibit slavery for us and restricted us to monogamy only? Are u arabs special? Waqas u know and I know u cannot justify this sex slave verse with moral justifcation, so please dont try.

  52. Waqas says

    @VIK
    At least we pakistani have the courage to fight against black sheeps of our nation Look at your coward nation . You dont even have the courage to speak against them.
    No fir was charged against those brahman who killed many inncoents shoodras. See what bala thakery and his organization is doing but no one in your country even your givernament cant do much about it

    • dharmayoddha says

      @ waqas ,

      Balk thackeray is the only answer to katuas like you. You got a problem?

      You want to take over india and rule it again? Try fighting 100 crore hindus, who have given up on mahatma gandhi’s ideology of ahimsa, now we believe in hinsa, tit for tat.

      You muslims got more power to satisfy 4 women? Really? want me to give you a list of muslim women I banged? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  53. Arya says

    @Waqas
    We are talking about our authentic books(Vedas) and your authentic books(Quran+hadith). In our case if any thing goes against Vedas, we wont accept. Regarding Ramayan and Mahabharat, these are history books with many adulterations. So we judge it in accordance with Vedas, whether an act is good or bad. And we accept the truth and reject the false.
    In your case, Quran and Hadith both are authentic. Can you reject your hadith in similar way as we reject false?
    About Bani Qureja incident, forget Shibli. Go and ask any muslim scholar about this event and Rehana in particular.
    You said- "Muhammad (PBUH) never kept a slave." Tell me brother, who was Maria?

  54. Aman Jha says

    @ waqas
    Brother since your quran sanctions to have upto four wives, tell me how would you react if your father brings any other woman/women in your house other than your mother as a legally wedded wife? I will not take up the issue of concubines and sex-slaves!
    . how would you react if your father sleeps wid other women, leaving your mom as mute spectator to his sexual raunches…and pls don't put up you-tube links saying that the same things happen in india too!
    I AM ASKING THIS ONLY AND ONLY WITH REFERENCE TO QURAN.
    Waiting eagerly for your reply, brother!

    • waqas says

      In ISLAM when u marry again when ur already married, then they r few things u should do.
      1st of all u cant marry without ur wife's permission. 2nd when u have more than 1 wife u r supposed to treat them equally.. not like u give importance to only one wife and completely ignore the other,it's a big sin.. About me if my father were to marry again with my mom's permission than i have nothing to do with that what so ever..

      • Aman says

        @ waqas.
        Brother, why this privilege hasn't been given to women?? Even a woman can fulfill all the above conditions viz. seek their husband's permission,love them equally,equal importance to all etc etc .
        If a man has reservations about sharing His wife's body with others, why can't women have reservations?????????

  55. Aman Jha says

    @ waqas
    brother have you ever tried to enquire about your ancestors? i mean 3-4-5 generations back? which religion they preached? what were their names?
    just ask your father/grandfather about them. you will yourself discover about how you people were converted by force or by lure.
    just to give an example I am showing you the family history of omar abdullah, the CM of J&K.
    omar abdulaah is the son of farookh abdullah and grandson of sheikh abdullah. sheikh abdullah was the son of sheikh ibrahim..and for your surprise sheikh ibrahim was born to Ragho Ram Koul, a kashmiri Pandit, who was converted to islam in 1722 A.D.
    you can surf wikipedia for the same!!!
    In the same fashion, my brother, your family was also a victim of Islamic agression. Don't take my word at face value. go and urself enquire about you family history!!

    • ghgh says

      sorry i'm replying instead of waqas.
      why go to fore fathers and their history it's of no use and about what u said converted by force or something u r the biggest proof men!! u being a hindu, there is no forcing in ISLAM. The present Christians in saudi who r Christians from generation r the BIGGEST PROOF that they where not forced into ISLAM…. If it would have been the way like u say… i dont think so they would have been any non-Muslims at all in this world.. When u said u should know ur family history what were u thinking??. If our forefathers were wrong even we should be wrong.. Why dont u open ur eyes it's 21th century.. GOD HAS GIVEN U HANDS,EYES AND MOST IMPORTANTLY BRAIN.. so make use of it and search the truth ur self instead of doing what ur parents or forefathers did.. I'M A MUSLIM NOT COZ I'M BORN A MUSLIM NOR COZ MY PARENTS ARE MUSLIM, I'M A MUSLIM COZ I WANT TO BE..

      • Vik says

        @ghgh

        so, islam doesnt force rite?, why dont u go and research about moghal empire Aurengazib, that asshole killed many hindus just because they wont convert to islam. And there were many other asshole moghals who forcibly converted hinduism or by imposing heavy taxes on them. Now poor hindus couldnt pay heavy taxes, so that is why they had no choice but accept islam. Otherwise, think of it, very less people convert to a religion by themselves, but pak afghan and india and bangladesh, the whole population is muslim so its obvious that these people were forcibly or tax wise converted. Yes I do agree, there were good moghals too that didnt convert any hindus, so that must be the same case with christians in Saudi.

        • Kaetan-Hitz Bhatt says

          This is also true for the Taj Mahal, claimed to be built by shah jahan for mumtaz, when research and carbon dating shows that the Tejo Mahalye was 300 years OLDER than shah jahan…

  56. ben otman says

    Agni,(Fire ?)

    You are indeed playing with fire.You are up to something mischievous trying to discredit Dr Naik.Why are you afraid of his eloquence and command of the Hindu scriptures? Be positive man, learn from him.
    All scriptures command man to do good and not sow hatred.I am very sure Prophets have been sent to the Aryan,Dravidian peoples of the subcontinent.Vedas maybe partial remnants of the messages they brought with them.( the untainted by human hands )

    As for you, I suggest you study your scriptures in detail and God willing you will be a better person.

    • says

      1. Does Zakir Naik know scriptures? He has simply copied from Qadiyani books blindly.

      2. I would prefer to study only my books if likes of Zakir vow to not comment on others' books. Why should it be a one way traffic – that muslims can comment on everyone and everything, but no one should question them! Because Allah sent his angel to Muhammad stating that only his word is final, and rest should be destroyed!

      3. In one article, I have suggested that original Quran was remnant of Vedas but mixed with nonsense by bloody followers of Muhammad including his child-wife who were killing each other. So all that is good in Quran is from Vedas. And all that is trash including concept of Heaven, Hell, sex-slaves, virgins in paradise, only one life, etc etc are trash or due to ignorance of Muhammad. I would suggest you study this aspect of Islam, rather than comment on other scriptures and call foul when they start analyzing Islam.

      May peace be upon you!

  57. Vik says

    @imtiyaz

    why dont u tell zakir naik to speak the truthabout hindu scriptures and stop making lies. All of u idiots are are talking stupid just becuase zakirs's lies have been exposed. Muslims are known to be liars. And all of zakirs so called research is simply a copy paste from dr. haq's book who is an ahmediya whom u muslims consider worser than karirs. Grow up and realize ur evil religion that sanctions child sex and prisoner women slave sex. Quran is a book that sanctions evil, nothing else.

  58. Waqas says

    @Arya @Vik and all dumb who hindu's who blindly trust the stanic and garabage verses of Vedas.
    @VIK
    here's your reference about Satti in Vedas
    Rig Veda 10.18.7
    “Let these women, whose husbands are worthy and are living, enter the house with ghee (applied) as corrylium (to their eyes). Let these wives first step into the pyre, tearless without any affliction and well adorned.”
    i know i know you would start barking and would say that's not the correct version . Or this vedas have been adulterated. or this is not translated by Arya Samaj. Where is Vedas written only Arya Samaj Will Say the right and all other will say bullshit about Vedas and other books

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Waqas, tell me logically, how would u like it if I grab any verse
      from the quran and interpret it my own way and send it to u. U would
      obviously tell me to please read the exact translation. Even ur zakir
      naik agrees there are many bad translations of the quran out there, but
      he said only one is good and that translation is from Yusuf Ali.

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Now,
      any verse I take from quran, waqas, I always make sure its from yusif
      ali since I dont want to deceive u. If zakir said Yusuf ali's translation
      good then its obvious u must agree to it. Now coming to Vedas, I told
      u there are 10 times more bad translations of Vedas out there as compared to
      the quran. But if u want good translations of Vedas from Arya Samaj, please
      go to http://www.vedicbooks.com, and quote things from those books.
      You talk about double standards, ur the one who has double standards.
      I always use Yusuf translation and u still dont agree. I showed u many
      times verse 33.050 which sanctions sex with slaves and no need for
      a debate since the answer is clearly obvious that slavery sex is wrong.
      Even molvis agree that it states sexuality with slaves. Now please
      dont say ur own head mullahs are wrong. I will get this verse checked and I will send u the real meaning of this verse for sure.

    • says

      Have you even checked this mantra for once. Which Brahman did this translation? Or you picked it up from some random site? Which word in the mantra signifies fire or pyre? Just check your own translation. It says that women whose husbands are living should step into pyre! But Sati is supposed to be for dead husband, right!

      In reality, the mantra has two words "Yonim Agre". Crooked foreigners twisted the mantra itself and started using it as "Yonim Agne". So "R" was changed to "N" to suite their own designs. No Veda Samhita available has "N". The real meaning is simple " Ladies First". Yonim means home. So as per this mantra, we should ensure that the women are always prosperous and taken care of nicely. And in the home, they should be the leaders.

      And as I said, even if "R" of Agre is replaced by "N", it does not in any way talk about women burnig themselves with dead bodies of their husbands. Because the mantra specifically mentions "who husbands are living".

      I find that many influenced by barbarism of West would deliberately try to find errors in Vedas when they do not even exist. They know no Sanskrit, they know nothing about these scriptures. But because one Nalayak states so, they have already decided that Vedas etc are bogus. Evidence is immaterial for them. Such fanatics are the greatest threats to society.

      Its a shame that they cannot even openly condemn Osama Bin Laden. Why should they not be considered terrorists or their accomplice?

      • Waqas says

        @agniveer
        since the actual translation of Vedas approved by your arya samaj is not available on net therefor people use the resource wherever they get.
        The way you described those verses i dont know whether you are saying right or wrong but it seems you are an expert in vedas. But if you are really a true vedic why are you spending time here asking for an apology from zakir naik which he is never going to and your arya samaj will never going to challenge him too. ieven he apologize what do you get ???? nothing so i suggest instead of creating a fitna between hindu;s n muslims do translate vedas and publish it on net so people can read it. I know you will never do that the way you never uploaded those videos(debate of zakir's allies and arya samaj) . you would just create rifts between two nations . when the right time would come . show me those video i challenged you. you dont have those videos or this kind of debate never happened it seems. i suggest you to encourage your cowards arya samaj leaders to debate with Zakir . Lol

      • Waqas says

        @Agniveer
        You want muslims to condemn Osama Bin Laden ?? have you hindu's condemned ever bhala thakhery that ass hole even dont allow other states hindus to come mumbai but even then you wont.
        You want us to condemn Osama because the western world is sayiong so. Western world also called bhaghat singh a terrorist. you want me to call bhagat singh a terrorist too or do you say him terrorist too??? let me clear one thing here
        i condemn all those attacks where normal human beings (muslims or non muslims) were killed . i condemn 9/11 attacks i condemn mumbai blasts 93 i condemn mumbai 26/11 and i pray who ever means whoever were behind those attacks should be punished to death and should be punished in hell forever.
        but if you want us to condemn specifucal Osama. we cant because we dont know whether he did that or not if he did you can read my above lines. i think you have nt seen the documentary movie farhen height 9/11 by michael moore . see that your eyes would open

    • dharmayoddha says

      @ WAQAS,
      i will do terrorist attck like osama bin laden, (withut lund) and then I wil deny it and ask you for PROOF. Is it okay? You dont know whether or not I did attacks on yur mosques, what will yu do? Cant I use your same muslim logic?

  59. says

    What word would be used for one who steals from others' research, and refuses to acknowledge. What words should be used to for one whose entire works are based on Qadiyanis but refuses to accept that? What punishment does Shariat offers for those who steal? WHy should Zakir not agree to this punishment if indeed he believes in Shariat?

  60. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, read that mantra urself, thanks for the mantra in sanskrit. brother that mantra doesnt talk about sati at all. By the way Mr. Agniveer has refuted u on that already. U know and I know Mr.Agniveer is an expert in Vedas so he cant be wrong and he said that this mantra doesnt refer to sati at all. This mantra states that we should take care of our women and women should be leaders at home. U got this from wikipedia…from a garbage source didnt u?

    • Arya says

      @Waqas
      1) Think of that time when people just started accepting idol worship instead of worshiping formless God. Idol worshipers would have also given the same logic of high conversion rate! Can high conversion rate for a religion be the measure of righteousness?
      2) Embracing Islam by US/UK women does not imply to the truthfulness of Islam. Its just about change for those girls as they change their partners every now and then! Forget about US, just go to your mother (I have respect for her) and ask her about hijab and polygamy and tell me what she says.

      you have not responded to my previous comments in which I proved washing of Muhammad by Zamzam and caliphate for Arabs only, from Hadith. You challenged me to give references, I gave. Would you convert to your original Dharma now?

      • Arya says

        @Waqas
        You wrote-"it does not make a difference to choose one wrong thing after leaving another wrong thing". Brother, this is what I am saying. Be it idol worshipers of Arab or India, girls of UK/US, it does not make any difference to them whether they accept Islam or not! Yes of course, they are promised to get 72 virgins in jannat, and the girls who are lesbians would be very pleased to get those. You wrote-"why are not they(girls) accepting Hinduism …?". So it is again the same thing that a characterless person will choose a characterless cult. Like attracts like! A person of loose character can not befit with a religion of Vedas of noble persons. Regarding more strictness on dress and freedom of women, forget about US, even in India, not more than 20% of muslim women wear hijab. No mullah can issue fatwa in US/UK for a woman for consuming alcohol or sex. So dont give the logic of strictness.
        2) If I would have believed the righteousness of my religion based on no. of people in it or converting to it, I would have become christian or muslim. It does not matter to me whether I am alone or with millions. I am not among those (like Zakir Naik and his followers)who in gathering of thousands, clap madly on conversion of a person from his belief to mine. The religion which you called as SHIT RELIGION was, what your ancestors used to follow and sacrificed their life to defend.
        3) If I am still dumb, why have you replied now? You challenged me-"where does it mention that Gibrael washed the heart of Muhammad", you did not asked for "dirty heart", you can check your comment. I am sure that you had never read this incident and denied me first and when I gave you reference, you changed your words that I asked for "dirty heart". It was my conclusion that if something was needed to be washed then obviously it should be dirty and You have to accept that. You were first denying the whole incident and now twisting your words.
        4)Regarding caliphate, if it would not have Muhammad's wish of an Arab to be Caliph then how could Abu Baker order against the will of Muhammad?
        5)Brother, you have neither read Vedas nor all Quran and Hadith. You have assumed your path to be superior to others without comparing them. I challenge you, if you can point out a single verse of Quran which you feel is unparalleled and can not be matched by any mantra of Vedas, I shall accept Islam. But if I would do so then you would convert to Vedic Dharma. All the points should be made in the light of Vedas, Quran+Hadith and nothing else. Do you accept the challenge?

        • Arya says

          @Waqas
          1)Brother, the language you are using here clearly shows who is jealous of whom. We were supposed to discuss Vedas and Quran+hadith, but you always bring in hindu and muslim. I have never said that a hindu is perfect, rather, I said Vedas are perfect. You still have not given a single mantra from Vedas in your support. I always refer Q+H. By the way in India, most of the people who are involved in prostitution-the owner and prostitutes, are muslims. So dont give me rubbish logic of high character of muslims. You can follow Vedic Dharma only when you pledge to live your life according to Vedas. This is called real transformation and it does not require change in name, reciting kalma, and reading namaaj. When a girl converts to islam, she is insured to get 72 virgins afterwards, wine, ghilmaan(boys), and many more things. So she, who had engaged with 10-20 partners till now, would be pleased to get 72 at a time. Thus she would be desperate to come to this characterless cult where after some years, she would get five times more amusement forever. If she wants to come to Vedic Dharma, she has to lift up her character otherwise she can not be called as Vedic.
          2)I am giving here portion of Bukhari[9:608](remember 9 is volume, not book)
          "Gabriel cut open(the part of his body) between his throat and the middle of
          his chest (heart) and took all the material out of his chest and `Abdomen and then washed it with Zamzam water.". Moreover it is clearly mentioned in one of the other two hadith that his heart was filled with wisdom and belief. Now you can understand that first of all heart was washed and when it was cleaned then belief and wisdom were poured into it. If you still dont understand, go to any maulvi and ask him.
          3)If Caliphate to Arabs only was not Muhammad's will then how could Abu Baker said so? If Muhammad really wanted any non arab to become caliph then Abu Baker overruled Muhammad. And muslim ummah has to follow Abu Baker as he was appointed Caliph after death of Muhammad.
          4)Arya samaj has officially challenged Zakir 4 times, you can see it on google, but being stage performer, he asks us that how much crowd we can pull! So for him and semi literates who follow him have criteria of truthfulness of a religion as how much crowd one can pull!
          5)If you give a single verse from Vedas which says that a woman or low caste has no right to read Vedas, I will leave Vedic Dharma the moment you show it. We were agreed to talk on Vedas and Q+H, dont drag anything from outside.
          6)I follow Vedas. I discard everything which goes against it, be it puran or Quran. From now on remember this thing and refer Vedas only.

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            it was you who brought muslim and hindu in debate. if you check out previous comments you would see agni asked me to show him proof about the conversion of americans to Islam i just showed you the proof . when i published that link did i say any thing about religion i just here is the proof of americans converting to Islam . Since those women have become muslims and you used pathetic language against them and it hurt me. Where in Quran and hadith,s it s mentioned that women will get 72 virgins . its only for men and for women its will just be a surprise. and the things you mentioned she is going to get that would happen after her death not after few years. When you think about white why only a sex word comes to your mind first . Is just sex can amuse people thats what displays your dirty mind. If its only about sex , she can have sex here with girls with men , she could ve become become prostitute in order to enjoy sex why she chose Islam where she will not be allowed to drink , will not be allowed to show her skin(the way hindu women does) , will not be allowed to go to night clubs or will not be allowed to change partners without marriage. If you comparison of proper islamic women and proper vedic women you would be able to know that character of Islamic women is much higher than your women.
            as far as hadiths are concern you are referring me a hadith again and again. In first place you mentioned washed dirty and sinful heart i just wanted you tell me where does it say dirty and sinful. its was like an abolution . We offer prayer 5 times a day . every time before we offer prayer we do abolution wash our hands mouth head nose mouth what does that mean these parts have become dirty . Since Allah has only given this chance to our Beloved prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to show him the heaven why Allah would choose a person who has a dirty and sinful heart . by just reading without understanding one can conclude things whatever he wants and if dirty minded person like you start concluding by itself then you can take the meaning whatever favors you .
            If its some thing bad in islam why would we display it openly . You just type Bukhari Sharif and you see 100,s of web sites have published all books of hadith . We are not like you who could not even publish a single actual transalation approved by Your cowards Arya samaj on internet because they know after reading the actual translation if vedas people like you who blindly trust on Vedas will leave the religion too.
            If you discard anything that goes gainst your vedas why dont you burn all those books then. i am sure there are more 70 crore hindus in india only and more than 70 percent of them are following these books only 20 to 25 are following vedas . Instead of bring me on your path first atleast try them to bring on your path. We muslims even though we have 72 sect (including Ahmediya) at least believe in the oneness of god .But look at your hindu people you have made more than 100 gods some are worshipping snakes , some to cows, some to elephant , some to different idols.
            if you discard naya purana bhagawan geeta mahabhrtha ramayan so burn all these books . why following those???

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            1)Brother, I think you were involved in three separate debates with me, Agniveer ji and Vik. But first you assumed that this site is run by the above three. Then you assumed that all three of us sit together and give you answers and hence all the three are responsible for what any one of us writes. I dont know about brother Vik but I am not the owner of this site. I comment here just like you. Have you been ever questioned about anything which is written by muslims here? Then how can you drag the matter of Agniveer ji's debate into ours? Make your comments only on Vedas and/or my comments. You are continuing with the childish mentality of saying "your hindu actress". I am not here to write on hindu muslim but for your information, there are many muslim actresses working in india and pakistan showing their skins without shame. So better stick to Vedas and Q+H debate.
            If any of my writings(except from Quran+Hadith) has hurt you I feel sorry. I never had this intention but I had to write it because I know their character. Just go to the countries of white girls and find how many muslim girls have stopped consuming alcohol, sex… Brother, those girls have liberty to test any religion and come back if they dont want it. It is not like Arab or pakistan that they will be hanged if they go against sharia. Forget about US/UK, I see many muslim girls going to their colleges in hijab but after reaching college, they become more fashionable than others. I am equally harsh on all those girls who wear vulgar dresses irrespective of hindu, muslim, christian. Same way I equally condemn idol worship, grave worship, man worship (considering a man to be God or including a man with God in prayer), be it by hindus or muslims or christians.
            2) Why will not Allah give equal amusement to both men and women? Why cant a women get 72 men? And of course, at least in islam, the biggest amusement is sex and that is why, the biggest no.(72) of any pleasure is of virgins!
            3) You asked me to show the hadith of washing the heart of Muhammad, you can see your first comment and I showed. Dirtiness of heart was a consequence of washing which I pointed out. Brother if you see logically, you need to wash the thing which is dirty. In fact your ablution is also for washing. Moreover if you read those hadith again, you will find faith and wisdom were poured into Muhammad's heart after washing. Now you can understand yourself why washing was needed.
            4) Logic of displaying openly, the hadith, is not enough to prove the righteousness of hadith. This is really unfortunate that muslims do not see any bad in hadith which contain vulgar, cruel, and inhuman practices. I give some examples which I have given earlier too.
            i) Ayesha said, "The Prophet used to place a pillow in my lap even though I would be menstruating, and then he would recite the Qur'an." (Bukhari, vol 1pg 197 Book of Bath)
            ii)The Messenger of Allah addressed his wife Safia as “O You, bald-headed perished one!” (Bukhari, Kitabut Talaq vol 3 pg 143)
            iii)Abdullah Ibne Umar was reciting the Qur'an. When he reached verse 2:223, he asked Naafe whether he knew the application of this verse. Then he went on to explain as:“Your women are your tilths. Therefore, go to your tilths, as you please. If you wish, go into her …” (Bukhari, Book of Tafseer 6:50)
            iv) Ayesha said, “When Rasoolullah desired to have intercourse with me while I menstruated, he would order me to tie a piece of cloth around my waist.” (Bukhari, The Book of Menstruation vol 1 pg 24)
            v) A woman presented herself to the Prophet. He intently gazed at her from head to toe and then lowered his head (meaning she did not interest him). (Bukhari, Book of Nikah 3:71)
            5) I consider ramayan, mahabharat, Quran, and hadith, etc as history books. I am not bound to believe all those word by word. I do not regard ram, krishna, or muhammad as God or messengers. I shall not follow any of their act which is immoral according to Vedas.
            6) Burning the books-Now you have shown true face of islam which orders to burn everything which goes against you. This is what muslims have done till date. They have burnt all those whom they do not like, they rape those who do not follow islam just to make their sons and daughters muslim! And most unfortunate thing brother, one of the sons of such a mother is praising the bastards who raped mothers and sisters of his ancestors, killed them and forced them to follow this barbaric cult called islam.

            I again invite you to your original Dharma of your beloved ancestors in which you can taste the real Tauheed or oneness of God as it does not ask you to believe any Ram, Krishna or Muhammad. Read Satyarth Prakash to know more.

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            sorry to reply you back was bit busy in my other things i know u must be comin back again and again on this website to see my reply but i really could not get much time to reply you. any how yea i should ve not brought you in that debate because i thought u that asshole agniveer and vik are on a same page because i never interacted agniveer or never questioned him he suddenly popped up in my debate with you guys . You are saying you the character of white girls because you have been to their countries bro i ve lived in uk for four years too and the girls i ve seen converted to Islam never go back to their previous lives as far as character is concern indian women character is almost like those white women character. 35 percent of indian women keeps 2 love affairs at the same time where in united states its 42 percent so its not a big difference. only in mumbai 50 percent of the girls lose their viginity when they pass out from the school and in united states it 54 percent again the difference is not big . i think then the character of indian women is much lower than white women. any how thats a different issue now coming back to your original points
            you asked me why Allah does not give equal amusement to women too bro i m not god. Allah has kept some thing special for them as it is mentioned it would be a surprise for them.and as fas as amusement is concern we do not pray, do good to others, obey the orders of Allah to get 72 virgins. this is one of the gift that we are going to get but our only priority is too make Allah satisfies with us. we want Allah to be happy with ourselves. you wont understand that how does it feel to be a muslim.
            Bro as far as hadith about heart is concern, since you are just reading it then you can make any meaning you want to make. you think you are very intelligent. do you only take shower when you get dirty. we do abultution bu it does not mean the part of body we wash gets dirty therefor we do that. we do that becoz Allah has asked to do that. let suppose if i do ablution as soon as i do that after some seconds my belly gas gets leaked i ll have to do my ablution again . You tell me by leaking gas how my mouth my hand my face my arms and hair get dirty . we do that again becoz Allah has asked us to do that. as far as washing Muhammad;s heart, Allah knows best why Allah asked Gibreal to do so but it does not mean that heart was sinful or dirty otherwise why Allah choose a person to show his heaven who has a dirty or sinful heart. you only see the hadith with the eye of critic because you only want to find mistakes in that therefor you could not see the sacrifices of Muhammad (PBUH). He was the best ever Messenger and prophet send to this nation and he was messenger and prophet for whole nation.
            the other Hadiths you have mentioned you have taken them out of contecxt ? what kind of Vulgarity you see in those hadiths? sex is part of life and Islam gives a whole teaching to person to elad his life.in one of the hadith where Muhammad(PBUH) offered on of the slave to a sahaba, you know Muhammad(PBUH) asked that sahabe to return that slave and instead of kepping her slave Muhammad(PBUH) married her. He did not let that sahaba to take a women of that tribe . They were slaves over there too.the thing is its just mind thinking may be some thing moral for you immoral for me or some thing immoral for you moral for me.
            i give you a simple example like if your sister and mother (with high respect) wear sarhi showing their belly and back moral for you but thats totally immoral for me and polygamy is immoral for you but moral for me.
            its just the thinking nothing else

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            1)Brother, since you have again talked about hindu-muslim character so let me tell you that most of the prostitutes in India are muslims. You have not been able to answer the questions regarding Muhammad and his character, which I pointed out from your authentic hadith. You have nothing to say over Muhammad except that I have taken things out of context. Quran says- "They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean"[2:222]. But see Bukhari-"Ayesha said, “When Rasoolullah desired to have intercourse with me while I menstruated, he would order me to tie a piece of cloth around my waist.” (Bukhari, The Book of Menstruation vol 1:298)".
            Now you tell me brother, did not Muhammad disobey Allah?
            2) Regarding ablution, Quran says-"O ye who believe! When ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete His favor to you, that ye may be grateful." [5:7]

            It is clear that ablution is required for cleaning and it is not a mere ritual. Regarding sins of Muhammad, check this out from Quran in which Allah says to Muhammad-"That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way".[48:2]. I can provide hadith also if you want but I think it is enough.
            It is clear that Muhammad's heart was not only full of sins before he became prophet but he used to commit sins afterwards too.

            3)So you agree that everybody has his own levels of morality. But then why do Zakir and other mullahs want these morals of Muhammad and Quran to be accepted universally? Why do they call Quran to be final word for everyone and Muhammad to be the prophet of whole mankind? By the way, sex slavery, polygamy are something which no prophet should have propagated as these are immoral practices suppressing women.

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            dont give me a shit about muslims prostitute in india. you dont have clear facts about that. the stats i stated it was taken from your own indian survey group. 50 percent of girls lose their virginity when they pass out from school only in mumbai and i clearly said about mumbai not abot the whole india . if you are from mumbai then start thinking first about ur family too. YOU KNWO WHY THIS THING IS HAPPENING because of your broad minded formulaes therefor islam ask women to cover her body.
            i dont think so you have ever read books about Hadith. you have only read those books which are written against Islam. Bro the hadith you are mentioning is not correct hadith . the correct hadith is
            Narrated 'Aisha:

            The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            I live in India and know it better than you. I know the ground reality. I know that most of the prostitutes in India are muslims. I dont read books about hadith but I read hadith itself! If this hadith is incorrect then go and look at the book by a pakistani Dr ghulam jelani barq named as "do islam". You would find the similar translation there. Moreover, are these the deeds of a Prophet? Could not prophet control himself until Aisha would got purified?

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            why do you have to go to take a reference from that book? y didnt u look it on internet or to read any other book to get more clarifications. i gave you a translation of Vedas about satti too. u said it was a bad translation did i say any word about satti after that. even though i m not still sure weather u were right or the guy who translated it was right because i dont know how to read sanskrit. where in this haidth it mentioned that Muhammad(PBUH) had sex with aisha while menstruating. my english is bad but your english is very good i gave you clear hadith then why did you ask this question again. i dont understand.
            you said "i would talk about quran and hadiths and you talk about Vedas". i cant find vedas in pakistan. and its not even on internet. why dont you ask your COWARDS arya samaj to do translation for you so you can publish it on internet. you can find a whole Quran and hadiths on internet and therefor mashah Allah thousands of people are converting to Islam.
            see read me comment again did i say 50% ratio of hindu women lost their virginity or did i say 50% ratio of girls in mumbai lose their virginity when they pass out from school. only hindus live in mumbai??? now why are you barking again that there are more muslim women prostitutes here than hindu . Dog i know there are multi religions in mumbai some are hindus some are muslims some are sikhs some are christians some are fake hindus who do idol worship. i said it about all of them . i just mentioned those stats because u said white girls are characterless so i said in reponse to them that your indian women also do not have a very good character. in india 35 percent women keeps 2 affairs at the same time and in us its 42 percent. so is it a really big difference that makes your women high character. do u have an answer for that. i know you wont but i even know you would still bark

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, its true, majority of prostitutes are muslim. I am not being biased, I have proof. Historically, prostitution originated from islam or moghal empire. Otherwise today, in any indian brother u go to brother, why do they greet u islamically, like saying "adaab", "aslam alekum", and in many brothels they use the urdu language. Have u seen indian movies made on prostitution, why are they titled "Umrao Jaan" and "Sultana Begam", brother these are muslim names. I agree there are hindu prostitutes today too, but historicaly it originated from islam. And by the way, if u want those videos of Arya Samaj defeating islam, just type in utube "Arya Samaj vs Islam" or go to http://www.youtube.com/truthwisdom2008 and u will seee the debate

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            first of all, you should have not come to this debate since it was not between you and me. i am already been debating you seperately since i did not reply you for 2 days does not mean i left the debate with you. i was busy with some of my personal things. Since you could not defend the debate about vegetables you have come up to prostitution now. first you said by yourself we eat vegetables when they die and since you could not defend that you brought the topic of classifications. the way you reply it seems you spent 2r hour on this website any how coming to your point. before i go further let me tell you whats the percentage of different religions in mumbai
            Hindus (67.39%), Muslims (18.56%), Buddhists (5.22%), Jains (3.99%), Christians (3.72%), Sikhs (0.58%), with Parsis and Jews making up the rest of the population.
            now thats the figure of mumbai . you can even confirm it by authentic resources.
            50 percent of mumbai girl lose their virginity when they pass out from school accroding to survey done by indians in 2008 so you are sensible to calculate how many of them can be hindus. even if we take the same figure it comes up2 67 percent n muslim 18 percent. 35% of indian women keep 2 affairs at the same time since in usa its 42 percent so the there s not a big difference in figures so by calculating those figures in mind one can easily say that the character of indian women is like same of white women since you and Arya were calling them characterless women. but even if you say count the figures the percentage of muslims in india is 13 percent only and there are 80 percent hindus according to 2009 census.so again majority of hindu's women are corrupt then muslims. i know you would again blame muslims for this becoz you would say since muslims have fucked their mothers so therefor they are like that. its not about being biased or double standard. do u have a figure or stats where it says the percentage of muslim,s women prostitute is higher than hindus. As far as this web site is concern, it is run by the biggest asshole on earth. He lied on the first page when he said about zakir stating expert on hindu scriptures or even quran scriptures. his almost videos are available on internet and show me a single video where he stated that so that thing proves that AGNIVEER is a liar and a faggot as far as double standard of this web site is concern here is the proof. when i read your comments about Muhammad(SAW) and Quran literally i scrolled the whole page by the name of tere baap to see what he actually said about hinduism or your scriptures but i could not find that. I am sure he must have written some thing very nasty about your religion and therefor you responded that way but see his comments have been deleted i could not find it on this page and your comments are still there. thats a double standard. after happening all this if you still say thats not double standard then its up to you

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            Even if I take your translation, it still sounds vulgar. You wrote-"The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me."
            Now you tell me that why Muhammad used to order Aisha to wear Izar? Did not Aisha always dress up properly as per your islamic dress code? If yes, why did Muhammad need to ask Aisha to wear something if she is already dressed? And if Aisha did not wear anything before prophet used to oerder, then it sounds vulgar. What teaching does a man/woman get from taking bathe from the single pot, and fondling even in menses of woman? What meaning of fondling a person take if Aisha was ordered to put Izar below her waist?

            Regarding your statistics, now you have come to mumbai-paki girls debate! This was supposed to be Vedas and Q+H, right? Going away from the topic of debate clearly shows you have nothing to say now on our main topic and you are not in a position to defend that coward, pedophile, rapist, and lowest character sinner Muhammad. You did not reply to my another comment in which I showed you that Muhammad was a sinner. I give that here again-

            Lets see who is stupid!
            Quran [47:19] and [48:2] clearly state-
            1. Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.
            2.That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;
            Thy is used for a person whom Allah is talking. It is clear that both verses are for Muhammad. Now I give example from hadith. Bukhari [9:93:482] says-"…..O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public…".
            Now it is proved that Muhammad used to commit sins even during his prophethood. Now you should accept Muhammad as a sinner which I have shown you from Q+H.

            Now ask yourself what is the level of morality do you and your prophet possess. If you want to still continue to say islam is the best and Muhammad is greatest man ever born then its your choice. You have abused many times arya samaj and Agniveer ji here. I can do that too and say anything about muhammad but I do not because I am not the follower of a coward pedophile sinner who insults his ancestors because he has been taught the same. I am not the one who praises the rapists, looters and invaders who raped his own mothers and sisters and invaded his motherland to spread the coward cult called islam.

          • waqas says

            @Arya
            and the verse that you are mentioning it was for muslims and ummah not for muhammad(PBUH). Muhammad(PBUH) was the messenger. Thats what it shows your stupidity of thinking .
            yea every body has his own level of morality so how can you say characterless women to white only . what makes you and your women having good character. Bro there is no level one thing is right and one thing is wrong thats it. if you are straight you want your wife to be straight too. Would you do wife swapping with your friend . i m sure you wont but there are like hundreds and thousands of whites who are doing so and thats moral for them and i know its totally immoral for you. Islam is a right religion and it is meant for the whole nation and thats our duty to spread it. i suggest instead of reading those books which are written against Islam, study catula books of Quran and hadith. if you cant inspite of bringing us to your path at least bring those 70 crore hindus who are doing idol worship. you dont even have aone web site whhere you cn find english translation if vedas approved by your PIGS COWRADS arya smaj. ask them to do so or do it by yourself so people can read it .

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            Lets see who is stupid!
            Quran [47:19] and [48:2] clearly state-
            1. Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.
            2.That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;

            Thy is used for a person whom Allah is talking to. It is clear that both verses are for Muhammad. Now I give example from hadith.
            Bukhari [9:93:482] says-"…..O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in
            the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public…".
            Now it is proved that Muhammad used to commit sins even during his prophethood. Now you should accept Muhammad as a sinner which I have shown you from Q+H.

            Now ask yourself what is the level of morality do you and your prophet possess. If you want to still continue to say islam is the best and Muhammad is greatest man ever born then its your choice. You have abused many times arya samaj and Agniveer ji here. I can do that too and say anything about muhammad but I do not because I am not the follower of a coward pedophile sinner who insults his ancestors because he has been taught the same. I am not the one who praises the rapists, looters and invaders who raped his own mothers and sisters and invaded his motherland to spread the coward cult called islam.

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            you are just reading books without consulting it with any scholar so therefor you make meanings of your own choice.
            thats the complete Hadith
            Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

            The Prophet used to invoke Allah at night, saying, "O Allah: All the Praises are for You: You are the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth. All the Praises are for You; You are the Maintainer of the Heaven and the Earth and whatever is in them. All the Praises are for You; You are the Light of the Heavens and the Earth. Your Word is the Truth, and Your Promise is the Truth, and the Meeting with You is the Truth, and Paradise is the Truth, and the (Hell) Fire is the Truth, and the Hour is the Truth. O Allah! I surrender myself to You, and I believe in You and I depend upon You, and I repent to You and with You (Your evidences) I stand against my opponents, and to you I leave the judgment (for those who refuse my message). O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public. You are my only God (Whom I worship) and there is no other God for me (i.e. I worship none but You)."

            Muhammad(PBUH) was the messenger of Allah. the whole Quran was revealed on him means the whole Quran was the message from Allah to Muhammad(PBUH) so he can tell the whole world. if these words were only meant for Muhammad(PBUH) then it should have not be included in the Quran because Quran is meant for the whole world.
            as far as hadith is concern, you just know there are hadiths but you dont know what does it stand for. haidths means the way of life Muhammad(SAW) lived, try to live that way and act open on the things which Muhammad(SAW) asked muslims to do. He was praying To Allah and we all know only Allah can forgive us. Muhammad(SAW) set an example by praying this (even though he was the best man on earth that has ever been sent in the world, and he even did not do a single sin in his life) that muslims always should pray to Allah and keep on asking
            forgiveness.
            you felt bad because i said wrong about agniveer and arya samaj. Bro Arya as far as agniveer is concern, the main purpose of him to make this web site to increase the differences betwen hinduism and Islam. he is a faggot a double standard person, whose rules are different for muslims and different for hindus. as far as you arya samaj is concern, why i call them coward there are two reasons. 1st that they can not raise a voice against dr zakir naik, they did not do peaceful protest against him, they did not held a press conference to ask Zakir for an apology .2nd reason is in this modern time they could not even transfer the vedas to english. According to you they have done so, so why not its on internet .you can even publish them by scanning pages. i would be more than happy with agni if in spite of making a web site against Islam and zakir he make a web site where one can see the actual english translation of vedas that way he could raise the voice against Zakir and can ask muslims and zakir to show a verse from vedas which zakir misquoted. but he did not do that/ he just made a web site so fool like you vik and me can fight on this .
            as far as you said about my abusing (these are your words i am just copying and pasting it) "You have abused many times arya samaj and Agniveer ji here. I can do that too and say anything about muhammad but I do not because I am not the follower of a coward pedophile sinner who insults his ancestors because he has been taught the same". and i am sure you must have read the comments of VIK about Muhammad(SAW) and Quran but if you have not lets see then "Vik · 3 days ago
            @tera baap

            why dont u take the quran and go shove it back up prophet mohammad's ass? Ur zakir naik enjoys kissing prophet's ass, why dont u criticize him? All u muslims know how to make false propaganda, and u cant argue with facts and logics."

            why did not you tell him the same thing which you told me or if you have not noticed that so would you ask him now ???????
            you all have double standards. i could not read the comments of "tera baap" since it has been deleted by agniveer and it should have been because i know he must have said some thing really bad about your scriptures but why did not he deleted the comments of VIK. this is the double standard. i know you will not call it double standard and i will not it your mistake because thats how you have been taught. rules are different for different people like same in vedas caste system brahaman shoodra etc

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            Brother you gave hadith and wrote that Quran and Hadith are for whole mankind. Now you tell me, the verses in Quran which talk about marriages of Muhammad, Allah threatening to his wives when they opposed Muhammad, and many such things; hadiths talking about bathing of Muhammad and Aisha with the same pot, sucking the saliva of each other by Muhammad and Aisha, and many such things, do these verses and hadith have any relevance to the mankind? Moreover, there are many incidents related to the Arabs which are irrelevant for the others. Can Quran be still said as book for all and Muhammad prophet for all?
            If hadith, which talks about the sexual relation of Muhammad and Aisha, bathing of them together can not be generalized to any man other than prophet then how did you generalize the hadith of sins by saying that it is to teach to others but Muhammad himself was pure? Either generalize both or dont do it to any of one.

            As far as I have seen, Agniveer ji does not delete any comments. This is why you write here whatever you want. About Vik, I say that whoever started abusing was wrong. I did not read those comments of Vik and Tera Baap which you talked about. If Vik started it, he was wrong. But saying something offensive in the reply is justified and if that be the case then Vik did right.

            Brother I tell you a true story about childish mentality of most of the muslims. In 1920's sometime, two books titled as "Kishan teri geeta jalaani padegi" and "Unneesavi sadi ka maharishi" from Lahore were published by muslims. First book was full of abuses for Krishna and second one was similar for Swami Dayanand, founder of Arya Samaj. After publishing these books, muslims were happy that they have slapped the kafirs. After few days, Mahashay Rajpal of Lahore published a book called "Rangeela Rasool" in which life of Muhammad was given as per the hadith. Remember there was no abuse whatsoever for anyone. But muslims got infuriated that how can a kafir say something about our beloved prophet! A coward called Ilm Uddin killed Mahashay Rajpal and muslims gave him the title of Ghazi and Shsheed.
            This story proves the childish mentality of muslims that they can say anything to the beloved ones of others but when it comes to Muhammad, they think that everybody should respect him and whoever insults Muhammad, is "Wajibulkatl".
            I know in Pak, this story is not known this way and they say Rajpal as guilty and Iimuddin as shaheed. In fact you have made a tomb for this bastard ghazi in Lahore.

            So brother, come out of this mentality and respect elders of every faith.

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            dont give me these stories about mentality or etc u have your stories to tell and i have mine. u were telling about the character of white women so i showed you the character of your indian women. so in your terms its justify.
            i used to insult your arya samaj and agniveer because you people started insulting first Dr Zakir. who is arya samaj and agniveer for you? agniveer might be the husband of your sister but is he any kind of prophet to you or arya samaj are prophet for you? they are all normal human beings living in this world so like dr zakir. but you should have not abused Prophet Muhammad(SAW). did i ever use any bad language about your book Vedas ?? when i mentioned verse about Satti from vedas u said its a wrong translation ? did i even ever after speak about that??? despite the fact knowing that what Muhammad(SAW) is for us, u abused him because you dont have any thing left to debate.
            i am not going o debate you after that . i have never debated with any one before but i chose this web site because i thought of you all as a sensible person but you guys are nothing but double standards.
            can you show me what Tera baap has written against VIK or vedas . its been deleted but VIK s comments are stil there . thats what is your faggot agniveer.
            it was very disappointment talking to you.
            i am not going to debate to you any more
            bye

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            brother, this is the mentality I was talking about. Should you respect only to those who are/were prophets? When you are always ready to insult the others then why do you expect that Muhammad will be untouched from the flame? This is just same as the incident I gave you before. If you dont have guts to listen about muhammad then never use such language for the other faiths or people.

            This is also interesting that you accept a person to be the greatest man ever born even though he used to take bath with his wife from a single pot (with many people witnessing), having sex/fondling with her even during her menses and violating the law of Quran and many more… If you believe such person to be prophet then Agniveer ji indeed is 10 times a prophet than muhammad! Brother, be neutral while criticizing the faiths. Only God is the one who is free from all sins, and if you include one person into this status, it becomes "shirk" in arabic and also it is insult to the concept of oneness of God.

            Hope you will come to your original dharma of Vedas some day in which you will not have to believe any person to recommend you for God's bliss.

          • Waqas says

            @ARYA
            after reading this it definitely proves the way you are taking side of agniveer, it means agniveer does sleep with your sister. either your english is bad or you just dont wanna understand the translation. sex and fondle is 2 different things . you tell me when did i criticiz eyour faith or your book . it was you who always criticized and it was always me who responded. i criticized vedas by mentioning satti you responded that did i ever question about vedas again? if i did show me the proof? when you have nothin left to debate you started cullshitting about Muhammad(SAW) because you knew you were losing that debate and there for you played this card. today i ma writing last time on this page
            good bye forever to u all

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            you are taking side of Muhammad, so does that mean you are Aisha's brother? You did not tell if it was just fondling, why did muhammad use to order Aisha to wear some cloth around the lower part of her waiste? you did not answer the question that- was not Aisha already dressed up according to the islamic dress code always if she was being asked by muhammad to wear something? what meaning do you extract out of this whole hadith? I have always said that we are debating Vedas and Q+H. Whatever I write here, I give references only from Quran and Hadith.
            About Muhammad- What can I do if the greatest(?) man ever lived had such a character that quoting anything about him from authentic hadith looks bullshit to you?
            winning the debate- Brother, go to any of your pakistani friend or mullah, show him all the comments of our debate from the very first day and ask him about winning/loosing. You can do it yourself also by reading all the comments logically and cross check all the references I gave, and decide yourself who won!

            May Eeshvar give us the courage to accept the truth and reject the false. May God bless you brother, good luck for the future.

          • Waqas says

            and the link you sent me about Islam vs arya samaj . it looks more like a homemade video than a debate. the author of that video stated that msulim one of the guru of dr zakir naik have you ever ever seen him on peace tv????? can you see any other videos of him?? and the debate is happening in front of no more than 50 people. wah what a debate you did ?? wah . VIK actuallly before showing me this video you should have put your nose in water for some time so you could feel the embarassment.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, see this link about ur pakistan,
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Paki

            and it is shamefull for u that u didntnt recogince abdullah tariq of peace tv, even a dog knows all the bones in his dog house, but u dont know about abdullah tariq. THis video may look home quality thats because we dont have access to petro doolars like zakir naik of terrorosts funds. Now u see ur own islamist losing a debate to arya Samaj, so now u talk of excuses. BRother y dont u admit that Vedas are the only truth not the quran

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Waqas, its sad to see that u behave childish at times. Brother, in america this no such thing called a sharia law, where a woman gets killed if she converts. White women are like experiment type, they enjoy trying out new things, even relgion. I bet many arab country women want to leave islam but they fear the severe punishments. At least hindus or christians dont have some shit law like that. One more thing, we hindus dont do dawah like muslims or evangelists like christians and recruit people to our religion. Vedic dharm is the religion of humans, and we let them live the way they want. SO dont consider our goodness our weakness. By the way, ur islam isnt too good either, check out how many people leave islam and dont forget to see the last video, a molvi (muslim religous leader) left islam.

      http://www.answering-islam.org/Testimonies/
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUBAvosmb5I
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbz2ZC59_yw&fe
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19FU7Yyx4D4

      • Vik says

        @Waqas

        Waqas, listen to one thing. We dont have to respect islam because its a foreign religion which did not originate in Pakistan/India. The real religion that originated in ur Pakistan is Vedic Dharma. But u should respect it since ur ancestors were vedic followers. U know very well, if they werent there, u would not have been here. ON the other hand, we dont have to respect islam, but look how nice we are, we still show respect for it. Waqas, tell me one thing, suppose when u were little child and invaders enter ur house and kill ur parents. THe invaders take u with them. Will u consider those asshole invaders to be ur real parents and defame ur original parents?

        • Waqas says

          @VIK
          i know you have nothing left to say after seeing 20,000 americans converting to Islam every year therefor you started giving emotional dialogues. bro religion can not be originate from a country . There is no concept of domestic religion or foreign religion. a true religion is true religion and Islam is a true religion so you should accept the true religion

      • Waqas says

        @VIK
        you know after reading your comments about muslims leaving Islam i could not control myself to laugh . i know yoiu are not lying there might be muslim leaving Islam too but show me the authentic figure the way i showed you the authentic figure of a White christian reporter who came up on tv and stated more than 20 thousnad americans r converting to Islam and that figure has already been approved by Guiness world records too.
        So if a vedic leaves india and start residng in USA what does that mean he is not hindu any more . Thats the weakness of your religion you are preferring your country to religion but we are muslims for us Islam is our first priority . We can sacrifice more than 100 pakistan;s on our religion . you dont care about white since they are not from india. shame on you vik we muslims dont think that way for us the whole humanity is equal they are our bother and sisters too and they are on wrong path like you . we want all of you to choose the right path and mashah Allah we are succeeding in it. Keep barking about 72 virgins and other things inshah Allah it wil not effect even .1 percent of thise people who want to be muslims.
        YOU DONT NEED to put videos of muslims converting to hinduism
        i can put 100 times more than you and you knw that too
        here is a link of shankar acharya accepted Islam
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6Ty-djVTc
        heres another one
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIReDEW7R4I
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1asHyRrto
        here see what arya samaj president and shankar acharya saying about islam
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aQFWUbxUIU
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbonykuq1Ws
        now laugh at yourself

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          Waqas, what will u get by showing me a bunch of fake retards. The shankaracharya who accepted islam, go read his history in the first place. THis retard's name is ahmed pandit. Its surprising that all u muslims who lose to me in debates show me these videos over and over. Brother, ahmed pandit is not a public figure, that is why, I told many people, arrange a debate with me and him. Religon for religion. If he beats me in a 10 minute debate, I will accept islam. All i need is 10 minutes to strip him off of his dignity. Its an open challenge to him. But the problem is many muslims fear in debating me. Oh ya, waqas, check this out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32t0at0pZow …..Waqas getting back to our debate, u still couldnt refute my points of apostates and sex slaves.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            VIK what did you get after showing me a mullah converted to Christian ? If i show you some thing you say its fake and if you show me something that means its original. ok i agree the pandit or the girl who accepted islam are fake and the mullah converted to Christianity is fake too. show me the authentic proof where a neutral person report about conversion of muslims. i know there would be muslims are changing their religion but not many the way people are converting to Islam . the proof i showed you it was not broadcasted by aljazeera it was broadcasted by an english christian channel and the person who is interviewing and stating 20 thousand christains converting to Islam is a chrsitian too . thats the fact i am talking about it. Dont blame me it was you who started showing me a video where a single women left islam and single mullah left islam . i can show you 100 times more than those. If a hindu acharya leaves islam he is fake but if a muulah leaves islam it cant be fake . what adouble standard you have. the problem is here VIK i m the only one here fighting to you all. there is not a neutral person who could analyze things otherswise he would ve told you to leave the debate because you have already lost it . You could not even answer my question about eating plants and vegetables ??? you need justifiation can you proof scientifically whether a person and animal has a sould and plants does not. ??

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            i can show you more than 100 times videos of thosew who left Hinduism after realizing its true nature ,
            you mentioned in your previous comments that human bheings and anilmals have sould plants does not so there for we can eat plants. How do you animal have souls? show me a single animal which can speak and can say i know what i am which animal say i am an animal. since plant cant speak so that means we can kill then and eat them. i asked you before too to consult with botanist he would tell you plants cry planst laugh plants feel pain too.
            so brother accept it at least you have lost debate on this topic and start eating non veg too . nothing going to happen .

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, I told u before tooo. Only humans and animals have souls. The reason why know is 1)animals will hunt and move around for their own food. 2) they will respond or run away if someone like humans or other animals come to attack them. 3)look at chickens, when they see danger, they run away, because they know that they are chickens and they have to protect themselves. Now, do u see plants walking and running. When i bring a sccissors to cut plants, why dont they back away, instead of standing still and let me cut them. Plants are unalert. For the sake of argument even if i agree plants have souls, we only eat them when they die, or eat parts of them without killling them and those parts always grow back. Suppose if someone cuts ur hair and eats it, will u mind? No ur hair will keep growing, Now if zakir wants us to eat the entire family of creatures, besides plants and animals, why doesnt he eat humans, Our digestive system can digest humans tooo. Besides with humans u will get far more nutrition then animals, and moreover after eating humans, u will behave nicely like humans tooo? LOL, Waqas, people like u who follow fanatics become fanatics

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            the answer i m going to give it you it would be your final slap to u of this debate and if you keep on barking again that would be your choice because you will only say bullshit after that and you would know that too.
            your reason no 1: animal hunt and move around for food.
            Answer : bro there are more than 300 Carnivorous plants which eat flies and other insects . i asked you to consult with botanist too but you did not and unfortunately you even did not research about it . go through with this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivorous_plant and you would come to know about those plants . you live in canada having ine of the finest schools and colleges and you dont know about these plants shame on you i was in 9th class when i came to knwo about a plant who eats flies. How it eats it open his cover as soon as fly gets in it close its cover so that clearly shows PLANTS MAKE PLAN TO EAT THOSE INSECT AND HUNT FOR FOOD TOO.
            your reason no 2: Animals respond and attack
            Answer : Human beings do that too. so you are trying to say if a person or animal is in coma and they cant talk listen see so we can eat them since they are not reacting back . i never expect that a person like you would give this kind of stupid logic.
            You say we only eat plants when they die lolz hahahahaha bro VIK we also eat animals when they die we dont eat live animals another another stupid logic .
            you say we cut those plants and they grow up again hahaha then start eating anilmal hairs nails your own nails your own hairs too because thats what is going to eb grow up again .
            for the sake of argument i believe wat you said about eating parts and those parts always come back bro VIK you should have researched alot before talking to me on this veg issue . What about Potato . Potato grow up in the land and their roots grow up outside . when a farmer has to pluck a potato he has to take it all including his roots too and then he again has to put new seed in it to grow again. Here s another link about potatoes so you can increase your knowledge about Potatoes . and there are some other vegetables too who grow up like potatoes .
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato
            i think you should be given life imprisonment for killing potatoes
            you potato killer LOLZ

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            by barking here and there definetely proves that you have lost the debate. You did not answer about 300 Carnivorous plants . i speciefically asked you to read through that article but you did not read it at all. once you read those that would tell you how plants plan things to eat insects and flies.You also did not answer to me about POTATOES . you said you eat plants when they die on their own LOL start eating dead human being too and those animal too who die by their own . LOL and what about Potatoes i think you did not go through about the potato link too. go thru with the link and see how a farmer pluck a potato. since potato grow in the land and roots out side he pluck the potato by snatching the roots and on those places he throw the seeds again . you potato killers LOL
            another joke you said you dont kill living fresh plant i thin k then you dont eat fresh fuits and vegetables and all blame should go to farmer who pluck all this for you right ??? since human and animal moves so you cant eat them and plant does not move so you can eat them what a stupid logic . i have asked you several times to consult with botanist or search on internet about the plants you would come to know plants strive for food too . same case if you dont drink water you will die after 2 3 weeks same case with the plants dont give them water they would die too. stop takin oxygen you would die stop givin them Corbon die oxide gases plants would die too.
            i am sure you went through by the link i provided you and you have started beliveing plants have lives too but you are still debating just tom save your ego because you dont want to lose this debate but in real you already have lost this debate .
            you are asking me to provide that plants have souls?? you should ve never asked me this question . i think you and me know we cant even provide evidence about human being and animal have souls?? can we ?? or you provide me the evidence

          • Vik says

            Enter text right here!@Waqas

            Waqas, I told u many times, just because, plants can move or eat bugs doenst meant that they have a soul. Ur science is extremely weak brother, u bark without evidence. Humans and animals are classified under the same class called Animalia. An ur carnivours plants come under Plantae. GO get ur facts right. Animalia comes from the greek word anima, which means one who has soul, so if plants had souls, why not put them under this classification? Waqas, listen to me, dont teach me science, ok. u better get ur facts right first. Just because plants move isnt enought to classify them as soul holders. Brother Botanists themselves told me that plants dont come under Animalia class, then wot are u fetching about? Moreover, animals and plants forget classes, they arent even in the same domain, animals are in Eukarya and plants are in Eukaryota. Now do plants have nervous systems like humans and animals?

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            the thing is vik whenevr you get a slap from one fact you run to another one and dont worry you are going to get slap from this too. First you said we eat plants becoz thats not a living creature and when i proved that plants are living creatures too you said we pluck vegetavles and fruits without killing them and then you said we eat them when they die and when i asked you about Potato you came to animalia thingy.
            there is a famous saying think before you bark(speak).
            any way the classifications that you are talking about are made by men. even if some one has classified men and animal in a same class and plants in different class it does not mean that they are not living creatures any more . You and me considered to be normals, a person who does not have a leg or arm comes in the category of disables, a person who cant see comes under the category of blind a person who cant speak n listen under the category of deff and dumb so does theses disablities make them less human being or less value able lives. if plant does not have the ability to move and talk it does not mean that they are not living creatures any more. how stupid you can be? no plants does not have a nervous system like animal and human being they have their own nervous system. same like with animal, animals have different type of nervous system than human beings. so why match them, ? we are not talking about classifications here bro? we are talking about living creatures and science has approved that plants does have life too

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, ur the one barking nonsense facts out there not me. Waqas, I have given u scientific facts here, now if u still disagree, i cant help it. This classification was made by scientists not me. I am pretty sure they know more than both of us. Besides, if plants shared the same qualities as humans/animals then they would definitely be put under Animalia and not Plantae. Now that is not the case. I am not saying this, but scientists are. If u disagree with me, u disagree with modern science, which shows ur just an idiot. Plants and micro organisms move due to chemical reactions taking place, but these organisms dont know who they are, like animals and humans.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            it was you started barking about eating live and dead things since you could not defend that so you now have come up to classifications . you know who you are i know who i am can you explain this to animal? only human being will know who we are and how we need to react. same case with animal? can u ask an animal who u r i know a stupid like you might ask but do u think he would he is animal or he is lion etc. same case is with the plants bro . since they cant speak it does not mean they have living creature. how a non living creature can grow u tell me. if i dont give water to a flower y does it die? forget about classes? modern science even does not belive in God so would u start beleiving in them too?? modern science does not believe in soul? would u agree with them on this too? modern science does not believe in ghosts too so dont give me this stupid science logic. According to ur modern science plants are living creatures, the germs are living creatures and i have given you simple example of insect eating plants . what would u say to them? insect has totally different nervous system than animals and so on with human beings and so on with brids and so on with plants . you potato killer you have lost this debate . i know you will never admit that and you would keep barking , i ve got no issue keep on doing it .

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, do u possess a brain of a donkey? what kind of stupidity are u talking about. U tell me that I have double standards, look at u? First u agree with modern science of their sensors showing plant pain and feelings and now why I slapped ur face hard with a scientific fact that plants are not classified under Animalia, now u say science is not advanced to talk of these things. Will u make up ur mind, either stay with science or not? Who told u modern science denies the existence of GOD, think before bark and try using ur donkey brain more effectively. Newton, Gallelio, Einstein, were all GOD beleiving scientists, want anymore proofs? Potatoes are living, thats the biggest joke i ever heard Waqas. Fanatics like u would even try to prove that toilet seats are also living creatures (LOL). Looks like after revolving around the blackstone of mecca u have become dizzy and now ur brain is not functioning properly. Grow up please. Humans, animals, insects, are all under animalia. Plants are not. This is a scientific fact.

      • Waqas says

        @VIK
        every time you agreed to speak about vedas and quran but when you have nothing left to say you bring hindu s and muslims in the conversation.
        your hindu sisters are even worst than white christain women look at your celebrities they keep on changing their partners every day. so does that vedas tell them to do so???
        look at your realty shows where women spend nights with other people do steamy and sexy scenes just to get fame and money ? so does that vedas tell them to do so ?
        before pointing out my colleges and universities look your indian web sites where you can get thousands of hindus porn movies , hidden cam movies of your hostels and colleges and universities . som does that vedas tell you to do so ??
        you have more than 500 night clubs only in mumbai where drinking is allowed , dancing is allowed / so does that vedas tell you to do so ???
        bro i can go on n on n on but i m limiting myself here . if you have nothing left to say about vedas and quran just leave the debate .
        i think you come here for fun to take fun in debate .

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          Waqas, I dont plug things in from the sky. I spoke about muslim women because in one ur replys u said somthing like hindu girls do bad stuff and asked is that what Vedas teach u? Brother, listen, lets just stick with Vedas and Quran. Otherwise, here u tell me, things about hindus, and I will keep telling u things about muslims and this agrument will result in a phase declaring both of us as idiots. THe truth is there are good and bad people in EVERY religion. I never said every hindu is good out there. Brother so far, u are running away from my demanding answers, Brother I told u many times to give me moral justificatoins to islamic verses of the quran.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            your last paragraph shows that how big liar you are. your and my commenst have npt been deleted yet . U said u spoke about muslims women after wen i spoke about Hindu women. Tell me where did i get start speaking against hindu women or you are forgetting . you respond about muslim women when i was giving explanation about conversion of chrstian women i m just copying and pasting it from my previous comment
            " In hinduism women can show thier belly and back the way your women wear sarhi , in jewish they can do what evver they want so its better to choose these religions where they still have freedom to do anything. Why only Islam ? where they have to Quit drinking, Alcohol, Sex, they have to cober their whole body from head to foot. Why iSlam then ."and then you responded with this
            "Waqas, who told u that muslim women dont drink, brother, i have seen many muslim women doing things that even white women havent done. Especially Pakistan, go look in ur colleges aand skools and see wot ur muslim women are upto. Go to Heera Mandi in Lahore. I can send u more videos of people leaving islam, if u insist.""
            Tell me where did i say bad about your hindu women in my conversation . i said bad after when you bullshit about muslim women .
            so i think i have proved that you brought muslim women first so atleast give yourself a slap or apologize
            now coming back to your question about the moral justification of sex with slaves. Bro i have justified it many times but you dont want to understand because you have only point in Quran that you are dfiscussing again and again the thing is i cant justify it moraly untill unless we have the same criteria of ""moral"".
            in some cases something moral for you does not mean moral for me it can be immoral for me and like wise some thing moral to me does not mean would moral to you too .
            i give you an example if your sister or mother (i have huge respect for them, they are like my sister and my mother too) wears sarhi where her belly and back clearly visible to others may be moral for you but its immoral for me the same way polygamy is moral for me and its immoral for you.
            so there cant be a single criteria of being moral. I was reading a news other day where hollywood actor charlie sheen and his wife use to share their bed with another women too because his wife was bisexual thats moral for them but the same thing is immoral for us . so your criteria and my criteria of moral ism is totally different . i will not be ably to justify you ever.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, u can clearly see, that u started all this. U first said, hindu girls show their belly, then i decided to talk shit about muslim women. Waqas, even hindu women wearing sari and showing their belly, I find that immoral and bad. I am not being biased here. I am against all evil or immoral things. Vedas definitely dont tell u, to dress up in this manner of exposing ur self. I prefer all women in my family to wear salwar kameez since its perfect of no exposing. Otherwise everythingelse is immoral. Brother, tel me one thing, do u see any morality in having sex with slaves? Waqas, I agree u need the permission of the slave to have sex with her, but even if she permits, do u still find that moral? Waqas, think logically brother, I think sexuality should only be done amongst spouses. Waqas show me one point of moral proof, of sex with slaves.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            i did not mean to insult at all to your hindu women of showing their belly and back if i had that in my mind i could ve said the same thing which i said about christian and jewish women but i specifically said totally different about hindu women because i never wanted to insult your women . insulting your women was not at all in my ming i thought every hindu women dress up like this thats what i see on indian channels . i hardly see any one your women wearing shalwar kameez . khair thats a different matter. and i really appreciate if you prefer your own women to wear shalwar kameez . I m impressed.
            see even sex with slaves is allowed in Islam but you dont see this practice happening in todays muslim world. some one send a women slave as gift to Muhammad (PBUH) but Muhammad(PBUH) never kept her like slave. Muhammad(PBUH) married her and she was also became the mother of Muhammad's(PBUH) son. look out other hadith in many hadith,s it mention and Muhammad(PBUH) ask his followers to freed slaves. In that era, even if they freed slaves they dont have any where to go . slaves preferred to live with Sahaba's. so in order to fulfill salve's sexual satisfaction , some sahaba's did have sex with slaves but with their consensus. slaves were happy with them because they were treated badly before and they had been raped too. This thing happened only in that era. you wont see a single hadith where Muhammad(PBUH) ask muslims to keep slaves and have sex with them. so there for this practice does not happen any more, i know you have shown me the video of an arab keepin a slave since it was not proof but even if it happened. it was wrong

          • Arya says

            @Waqas
            You wrote-"you wont see a single hadith where Muhammad(PBUH) ask muslims to keep slaves and have sex with them"
            Brother you knowledge of hadith and Quran seems to very weak, just see below-
            1) We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.'Bukhari[1:367(1 is volume not book!)]
            2)Quran [33:50] states-
            "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee…… We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful."
            3)…Sa`d said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sa`d! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah". Bukhari[4:280]

            Now you will say these verses have been quoted out of context…

  61. SDC says

    It is not so difficult to understand the fact as to why women are converting and the answer is in islam itself.
    Sahih Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826 Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind."
    No wonder these less intelligent creatures turn to islam only to repent later.
    http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/People_Who_Left_Isl
    the only reason they cannot come out in public because u "peaceful loving" people will be baiting for their blood.

    • Waqas says

      @SDC
      i have already told you i m not going to reply you so stop asking me questions and find another person to debate. i only talk to sane people not to biggest idiot . If you really belive the authenticity of wikipedia that means Vedas allow Sati.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)#Argu
      that means what ever wriiten in above link is right about your SHIT dharam.

  62. SDC says

    The problem with those white dumbheads is that they do not live under an oppressing islamic regime as yet. They should have been born in islamic countries like pakistan, somalia, iran, yemen, etc. My advise to them is to visit these countries and if possible take the citizenship of these countries and get a taste of things firsthand. There is a saying in hindi for these people, "kutte ko ghee hazam nahi hota."
    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=201
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/category/image-galler
    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=201
    http://en.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-4
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM

  63. SDC says

    First of all, Waqas get ur facts corrected. The link was not a wikipedia link, it was link to the website wikiislam.org by ex-muslims or apostates. By the way, you said "i only talk to sane people not to biggest idiot (obviously was meant for me)." So, at least you consider some of us sane. Thank God!

  64. Aman says

    @ @ waqas
    Brother since your quran sanctions to have upto four wives, tell me how would you react if your father brings any other woman/women in your house other than your mother as a legally wedded wife? I will not take up the issue of concubines and sex-slaves!
    . how would you react if your father sleeps wid other women, leaving your mom as mute spectator to his sexual raunches…and pls don't put up you-tube links saying that the same things happen in india too!
    I AM ASKING THIS ONLY AND ONLY WITH REFERENCE TO QURAN.
    Waiting eagerly for your reply, brother!

    I am copy pasting it again and again coz' i want waqas to reply!!!!

  65. ghgh says

    Islam doesn't degrade women in fact it uplifts them. Hijab is to protect their modesty.. it saves them from the filthy looks of perverts.. But u people in the name of uplifting women u r exposing them.. Dont tell me that, u dont get hooters if u see a half naked women in magazine or TV, if not ur not straight.Islam doesn't degrade women in fact it uplifts them. Hijab is to protect their modesty.. it saves them from the filthy looks of perverts.. But u people in the name of uplifting women u r exposing them.. Dont tell me that, u dont get hooters if u see a half naked women in magazine or TV, if not ur not straight.
    in Islam if u have more than 1 wife, u r suppose to treat them equally and mostly they marry widows and divorcees 2nd thing there is more female population then men in America alone there is 6%more females then men in Europe there is 9.6%more females than men in all the countries there is more female population then men except few backward countries like India, pak,Bangladesh etc coz they do abortion when they come to know it's a female child. If they stop doing abortion of fetus then even in these countries there will be more female population then men.. Consider if a man has only one wife, what about the other female population who will be left out with out a partner. So there will be one option they should become public property u might say "PUBLIC PROPERTY" such a harsh word, believe me i cant think of any other word better then this..

    • Arya says

      @ghgh

      What about men? Who will uplift them? Islam does not teach man to control himself. Why should not men veil his eyes rather than forcing women to wear hijab? And what about a man whose face is seen by a woman? Should not he also wear hijab?

      You seem to be another victim of brainwashing skills of Zakir Naik. Instead of believing false figures, visit "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio" and get actual figures of sex ratios worldwide and interestingly, Arab which is birth place of islam has highest male/female ratio. So polyandry should be practiced there by your logic!

      • Arya says

        @GHGH
        brother, if below 65, male/female ratio is either 1 or more then polyandry should be allowed as per your logic because one would prefer marrying before 65 and not after that!. Its funny that you have yourself given the figures which contradict your logic. That is why I called you the victim of brainwashing skills of Zakir Bhai.
        Are HIV and AIDS two different diseases? Go to any doctor and ask him and you would know that polygamy is no less disease causing than polyandry.
        Refute the points made by Agniveerji and others logically. Dont be a parrot who says anything without having sense of it, we already have one in the form of Zakir. By the way, Mahabharat is not a revelation which any hindu believes to be from God and neither Draupadi or Pandawas are role model. Give the proofs from Vedas only.
        I invite you to come to Vedic Dharma of Vedas which is free from all falsehood and contains the absolute truth.

    • Vik says

      @GHGH

      like ur master zakir, u must be blind as well. In every country there are more males than females. SO should he practice opolyandry . Now, go do ur homework before opening ur big mouth.

    • Aman says

      @ghgh
      According to your data, there are less females in Indian sub-continent than men! Then why shouldn' women indulge in polyandry?? There is a very high probability of men becoming public property!!!!
      Who will save the men from the filthy looks of those pervert women????
      Going by your idiotic logics, its high time that men(read:muslims) in the indian sub-continent should start covering their faces, or else they may become victim of Women perverts!!!!!!!!

      • GHGH says

        U REALLY DONT HAVE SENSE OF LOGIC.. IT'S JUST UR POINT OF VIEW. ALTHOUGH THERE ARE MORE MALES IN INDIA DONT U THINK WHATS GOING ON RAJASTAN IS A BIG PROOF IN IT'S SELF.
        ONE FEMALE IS MARRIED TO MORE THAN 3-4 BROTHERS( LIKE THE PANDAVAS)..
        ANY WAY IF U TALK ABOUT INDIA,,, HOW MANY MEN DO U THING ARE UNMARRIED???

  66. ghgh says

    Someone has mentioned on false hadees about prophet that he suggested to drink camels piss and use it for medicine purpose.. From Bukhari in the books of WADHU.. before i continue let me tell u WADHU MEANS ABOLUTION.. the topic of camels, piss and medicine.. is completely of different topic.. that hadees is not there at all, someone has made it up to justify it with what hindus do (drinking cow's piss, all though few dont do it).

  67. ghgh says

    about jihad mentioned in 1st few comments..
    jihad means to fight for ALLAH… what u people r doing like arguing with each other is also a jihad, when u r hungry but still dont steal and fight against ur will is also a type of jihad..
    mostly few verses from QURAN about jihad are used to misinterpret that… to understand that u have to go to the context.. Where muslims r fighting with the mushriks of meeca.. That's why ALLAH says kill the non-believers if u see them..
    like in mahabahrat where arjun says i cant fight against my brother then vishnu says u have to fight it's a fight bw good and evil, it was a battle..
    same thing is over here also muslims were going to the battlefield..
    No one would say like "dont kill ur enemy" before entering into a battle..
    Like indian's woudn't say like dont kill the pak or Chinese when they r in a battle against them they would definitely say go kick their ass's..

    after that verse where ALLAH says to kill the kafirs he says "but negotiation is batter" where ever ALLAH mentions any thing about fighting at the same time he suggest that negotiation is better..

    • Aman says

      @ghgh.
      jihad invariably means to fight and kill, and on this forum we are neither fighting nor killing!!!!!All we are doing is , defending the oldest culture from some nefarious designs, which has caused unimaginable harm to humanity, since last 1400 yrs or so…
      And we are merely rebutting the false propaganda by that Parrot Nayak, instead of forcing anyone to accept a particular faith!!! Herein I shall provide you with some verses of Quran, which proactively advocates violence,irrespective of any provocation.
      You very rightly said that Krishna asked Arjun to fight as it was a fight b/w good & evil!!! But My dear, it was all done in self-defence and for their rights. On the other hand, the approach of Quran is merely restricted to conversion , by hook or by crook.
      Moreover Shri Ram & Shri Krishna never kept women as Sex-Slaves, unlike Muhammad & his Maniacs!! Infact if you see things at a Macro-level, the fight of Ramayana & Mahabharata was all because women were disgraced!!!

      Qur'an (2:216) – "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

      Qur'an (3:56) – "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
      ( How can God be so cruel!!)

      Qur'an (3:151) – "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

      Qur'an (4:89) – "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

      Qur'an (4:95) – "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
      ( This verse clearly falsifies you when you say that even arguing in the name of God is Jihad)

      Qur'an (8:12) – "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
      ( Any sensible explanation to this??????)

      The list can go on & on…
      Lastly, you said ," after that verse where ALLAH says to kill the kafirs he says "but negotiation is batter" where ever ALLAH mentions any thing about fighting at the same time he suggest that negotiation is better..
      What is this Negotiation For?????????

      "You accept my faith,or I will kill you and keep your women as sex-slaves" !!

      • Aman says

        @ghgh
        I agree that there are verses in quran which advocates peace.
        This only exposes its contradictory nature!!! and this is precisely what Agniveerji has been saying on this site.. ,"How can God's word be so contradictory?????"

    • dharmayoddha says

      @ghgh

      Your hate manual koran justifies fighting against kaffirs because of their religion, they dont accept islam. What a third grade religion. Yur kashmiri muslim brothers are doing the same to hindus.

      Do you really expect us kaffirs to NOT fight back for our faith? Why do these kashmiri muslims cry buckets when the Indian army/paramilitary forces fight back?

      When september 11 happened all muslims worldwide were celebrating, then why you cry when america attacked afghanistan and carpet bombed it?

      Arent you muslims one big bunch of CRY BABIES?

  68. Ohm says

    - “Sati Pratha” is nowhere mentioned in Hindu scriptures. Not a hint of it. ‘Sati’ is an ancient Sanskrit term, meaning a chaste woman who thinks of no other man than her own husband. When Raja Dashrath dies, none of his wives commit suicide. The famous examples are Sati Anusuiya, Savitri, Ahilya etc. None of them committed suicide, let alone being forcible burned. So how is that that they are called Sati? The term ‘Sati’ was never accompanied by ‘Pratha’. So ‘Sati Pratha’(in its modern avatar of forcible widow burning) is not a fault of Hinduism but a crime of Islam. The origin of “Sati Pratha” comes from Mediveal India mainly in Rajasthan Rajput families when they were fighting constant Islamic Invasions. These invaders did not follow the moral ethical code for the civil populace and raped their women and butchered their children. The brave Hindu Rajput women chose death (Jauhar) out of pure fear of Molestation and Rapes committed by Muslims after victory. They built big cauldron like pots, lit then with fire and jumped into them, to die voluntarily and happily in order to save their honour and chastity.

  69. Waqas says

    @VIK
    you should ve not said these words about Prophet and Quran. u said it without even thinkin that one could use the same word about your VEdas too but i know you guys dont feel bad alot if some1 say bad about your books. but it really did hurt me. i m disappointed with your words.

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Waqas, as u mite know, this reply wasnt for you, there are many fanatic muslims out there who call us "without balls" and disrespect our Vedas. So I have the right to retaliate. I really apologize if it hurts u, but as I said, this reply was for those people who insulted my religion. They must be muslims, I mean who else can show this much hatred towards hindus. I told you before, we Arya Samajis have defeated ur islamic scholars, but maybe muslims like u cant accept it, so u start abusing us. By the way, mine intention of hurting u or muslims is nothing compared to what zakir naik has done. Zakir naik has simply lied about our scriptures that we have to reject Vedas and follow ur quran. How hurt do u think we hindus are? If muslims enjoy spreading the truth, then why cant they accept the truth?

    • dharmayoddha says

      @WAQAS, CRY BABY,

      Get this translated.

      La illaha mafi allah
      mohammed dur rasul shaitan.

      Got sufficiently hurt?

      Dont come on this website, there are real brainy intelligent people here to debate with you. And some of us even fluent in arabic.

      • Man says

        Aur tu pahle tameez seekh kar aa.

        tere jaise faltu log hi fasad failate hain

        jis tarah islam ke kalme ko tu itni behudgi se kah raha hai na waise hi agar koi tere dharm ko isi tarah kahe to tujhe kaisa lagega.

        pahle izzat karna seekh
        phir log teri izzat karenge.

  70. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Waqas, its not a matter of comments being deleted or not, the thing is that time many muslims talked nasty about my religion, even went up to the extent of showing disrespect to my family, plus this tera baap guy was saying that we hindus dont have balls, so I retaliated. Waqas, the prostitution part, I am talking about history, not today. Today there is prostitution everywhere, even saudi arabia and iraq and pakistan. Now, its obvious that those women are muslim. Waqas, as far, as plants go, listen Waqas, I never made this classification of animals and plants, scientists did. Now u tell me, do plants have a nervous system, red blood, and bones like animals and humans? I agree, plants are living things, but it doesnt mean they are living in a way like humans and animals. Plants feeling pain, is still a debate going on. Its not a fact yet. Some say they do. Others say its only a chemical reaction taking place. Now logically Waqas, think about it, why did GOD make our frequency in such a way that we cant hear the plants? When we kill a human, and animal, we can hear their suffering, but why not plants with our natural state? The sensors were all invented by science not GOD.

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Waqas, brother, now I am convinced that u are equally stupid like zakir naik. Brother, there is a huge difference between humans and animals. According to ur stupid logic, then humans should eat humans too, since lions, snakes are all canibles. Brother, I agree lions,cheetahs,tiger,etc, all are meat eaters. But ur forgetting one thing brother, animals dont know wots right or wrong, only we humans have this knowledge. Even if u walk before a lion, he will try to eat u too. Until now, I was suspicious of ur stupidity, but now im convinced. How can u compare a lion to a human. Some animals even eat their own shit, now Waqas, y dont u try the same since u want to project animal habits upon humans?

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Brother, I told u before too, Plants feeling pain is not a scientific fact. In fact, there is a debate going on amongst scientists, so say they do feel, but majority say they cant feel pain since plants dont have a nervous system like humans or animals. Brother, u know, I clearly won this debate. I gave u scientific evidence of classifications which are made by scientists not me. I agree Plants are living organisms but u cant catgorize them in the same class as humans and animals. If u choose to eat animals, then my question to u is brother, wots stopping u from eating humans? Even human flesh can be digested as well?

      • Waqas says

        @VIK
        if your main purpose is just to win the debate by giving false logics and stupid scientific facts then ask arya and that faggot Agniveer to come to this debate and annouce that you have won.
        forget about classifications, even if classification animalia was made, its not made by God its made by scientist. we are all human beings but some are disable some are blind some are deaf n dumb. some one has made these characterization too. so would you separate disables from normal. Idiot. you just have a childish mentality.
        it has been proved that plants feel pain its not a myth any more. it only gave me a laugh when you said majority feels they cant. bro search again. dont give your stupid scientific logics by yourself .
        Plants most likely feel pain because when they are yanked out of the ground or get cuts, they release a substance which resembles what our brain releases when we injure ourselves.
        here are some links which clearlsy states by the labortary that plants do feel pain
        http://www.department13designs.com/vegan.html
        or just type do plants feel pain in google and see thousands of searches stating it does. by sitting on internet how can you give of your own scientific logic. LOL .
        you stated this line"I agree Plants are living organisms but u cant catgorize them in the same class as humans and animals " it only shows your illiteracy nothinh else that means if same scientist has categorized human beings into normal and disable so the value of disable person is less than a normal human being.
        now keee barking i won i won or ask that asshole faggot agniveer to announce you as a winner

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          Wow, Waqas, whenver I give a slap to ur face with scientific facts, then u say they are stupid or false. And now u urself use science as a defense. Brother, our original debate was about islamic principles from the quran, and now u make me look as If I am standing in a food market judging who feels pain and who doesnt. Brother, wots the point of sending me links to sites, here u send me a links that says plants feel pain, then ill send u a link to a site that shows plants dont feel pain, brother, this debate is similar to u showing me bad deeds of hindus and I showing u bad deeds of muslims. Brother, if u enjoy throwing links at me, then catch this link as well.
          http://ar.vegnews.org/plant_consciousness.html
          http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/news
          I really hope we return to our original debate of sex slaves and apostles. Brother, I send u the videos of arya samaj debate with abdulla tariq of peace tv, now I dont know why ur making dumb excuses like bad video quality less people, etc.

          • Waqas says

            @VIK
            You slapped me with scientific logics? lol i think you did not read even one of your own link. read the second link again it cleary states plants react to injuries like humans. Idiot. i even asked you to just write "do plants feel pain" in google search and see what does the first 10 pages say about it. All of them say yes they do feel pain. since you could not defend this topic now you have started saying about food market. the argument we are doing about vedas and quran since your book says not to kil animal at all. bro vik we muslims only allow to eat those animals who cant eat meat. Allah has made these animals and plants for human beings some are for ride and some for eat. if killing animal is wring then i think riding on animal is wromng too. why a horse had to take a warrior to a battlefield why not a horse rides at human being stupid.
            as far as slavery is concern we have talked enough about it. this practice does not happen any more. at that time non muslims used to have sex so when muslims conquered them muslims freed lot of slaves and they kept some too. it is not mandatory in Islam to have slave. and the video that you talking about it does not even seem that guy to me . it looks like since your cowards PIGS Arya samaj could not debate zakir they made that home video to show some hindus that we debated islamic scholars and defeated them. the voice quality is too one hardly can understand who is saying riught and who is saying wrong

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, either ur ears are bad or ur volume is low. We all watched the debate and we clearly heard it well. As far as the video goes, u were the one who was anxiously waiting to see arya samaj defeat islam, now ur showing attitude that sound quality is bad or less people or debate was unfair. Brother, we are not rich like zakir who can give u good quality, but one day we will and will also debate zakir. Many attacks have already started against him now, lets see how long can zakir defend himself. Brother, Abdullah Tariq is an islamic scholar from Peace TV, he is not some regular person. And we defeated him, if u seen the end, Pt.Mahendra Pal Arya ji challenged zakir untill Qayamat (doomsday as per islamic bleef). Now u cannot accept the fact that ur islam has lost to Arya Samaj

          • Waqas says

            If in this video Islam has lost to arya samaj then in the debate between zakir and vegetarian soceity president rashmi baiza veri arya samaj lost to islam but you will not accept that. even in that debaterashmi zaveri tried to run from that debate. what would an arya challenge to zakir they cant even do an english translation of your vedas. if they have done it, instead of watsing time why dont YOU publish it on internet. He is a coward like agni to challenge him in front of few people, he does no have guts to speak against him in a press conference. i know you would say now, zakir has links with osama and osama funded zakir to do so. then you should be ashamed on yourself that your indian intelligence even cant catch a guy who ha slinks with Osama. If your arya samaj really have the balls, ask them to go in public and challenge Zakir about his comments on Vedas otherwise i think you should all keep your mouth shut

          • Waqas says

            i did nt listen to this debate but even his points were less stronger than your arya samaj it does not mean Islam lost to arya samaj. i think in this case if that rashmi zaveri lost debate about vegetables then it means Vedas lost to Quran too. bro if you have little bit of sense think from your own mind. if God wants us to just eat vegetables ? he should have made vegetables avialable at every part of the world so one cant excuse. Country like yours canada can u expect to grow some kind of fields in canada like uk usa and especially the cold western countries where one even cant think of growing fields and bowing seeds. Arab countries, deserts. i think in this case God just want people to die out of hunger of he wants the world to live in inida or pak where vegetables are available with great range.
            dont tell me what action reaction is . its the matter of science and as you acclaimed majority of scientist think that plant does not feel pain. did u even have a look on the researches? just type "do plants feel pain" in any search engine and i guarantee you more than 90 percent of the scientist do believe what i am saying

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            first off rashmi bhai was a jain not a hindu, so him defending vedas is out of question. Brother, u have gone crazy, i told u before tooo, plants and animals are INCOMPARABLE, there is only one similarity between them is that they have chemical reactions taking place. Ok, now I will give u two facts, and I gurantee they will hit u hard. If u can refute me on these facts, I will start eating non veg today.
            FACT 1) Plants keep regrowing, after their portions are cut, whereas animals or humans cant, so this proves plants cannot be catergorized in the same class species as animals.

            FACT 2)Plants dont have red blood and bones as humans/animals, plants only have juice.

            so try refuting these 2 points.

            Plants are living, but they are not concious beings like animals and humans. Plants, bacteria, virus, etc are called living because they contain cells that helps them grow. SImilarly, if we chop a bacteria in a piece, it regenerates. For example bacteria like paramecia, will grow again if cut. BUT can humans grow again if i chop their hands off, can animals head grow back again if i chop it off.

            As far as Vedas are concerned, ur quran is nothing compared to Vedas. NOr that day has ever come, nor it ever will, where Vedas lose to Quran. Quran is a fake piece of work that sanctions sex and hookers, thats all it is.

          • Waqas says

            @Vik
            what a stupid fact and logic you can one neutral person can only laugh on this
            Every creatures has its own value. some animals have 4 legs and some have more and human beings only have 2 so why r u keepin them in one class? an animal can pick the weight of tons since human cant. birds can fly human and animal cant. so that plant has the ability of growing again. what about a Potato? can it grow again by itself? no it cant. once u plucked a potato u have to throw seed again otherwise it will not grow by itself. every living creature has its own qualities. chalo at least you commit the plants are living creatures. thats my victory. now keep barking

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, only time will tell whose logic is stupid. Brother, I am comparing them internally, like blood and bones, not descriptively. Even by descriptions some humans have big eyes some small. Some are tall, some are average. Brother, dont look in description, look internally, u will only find blood and bones in animals and humans, NOT PLANTS. Again, since potatoes dont have a nervous system like animals, I cant agree potatoes feeling pain, however they can have chemical reactions. Ok brother, u enjoy talking about potatoes, brother tell me, like animals and humans,

            can 2 potatoes have sex with each other, and bring out baby potatoes?

            If this were the case, all farmers would go bankrupt after giving a pair of potatoes or any vegetables to marketters.

            Waqas, mere bhai, please use logic.

            Birds, animals, humans, all have 5 things in common.
            -nerveous system
            -blood
            -bones
            -mobility
            -concious soul

            Now, do plants or potatoes posses any of these properties?

            Plants including potatoes:
            NO mobility
            NO nervous system
            NO blood
            NO bones
            No concious soul
            Plants can only regenerate and live long (trees can live up to 2000 years, whereas, humans span is only 100 years and animals even less). So I dont understand brother, how can u compare plants and animals, is there even one common feature besides their so called living chemical reactions?

            Waqas, I suggest we get back to our original debate of islamic principles, since u r giving illogical facts. I told u many times, all these things are debated amongst people. But I gave u the properties of plants and animals.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas,

            First off dont teach me about Canada, its obvious I know more than u. Alberta and other arctic plains are rich in vegetation. Besides if people are in arctic frozen areas, its simply their ancestral fault. In the beginning of creation, people migrated to various areas including icy places where they lost access to plants. Now, waqas, history is full of truth and falsehood and its hard to clarify what is what, its obvious eskimos were not born in arctic lands. Its just like ur in a nice field, but all the sudden u jump into a pit with no hopes of escaping. Besides, waqas, y dont u eat humans tooo? according to ur zakir they can also be digested, they can provide far better nutrients than animals……….u guys are all crazy for comparing plants to animals…………bro there is no comparison. However, humans can be compared alot with animals internallly. BUT plants neveeeeeeeeeeer. Vedas forbid us to kill humans or animals, especially cows since they provide us with milk.
            Dumbass zakir bhai MBBS (fake) said we only eat cows after it stops giving us milk, my question to zakir and all his fanatic followers is, suppose ur mom gives u milk, but one day she grows old, and cant help u anymore, so is it right for u to hack her into pieces and eat her?

          • Waqas says

            @Vik
            Lolz so if i m born in western country and i dont have enough vegetable to eat becoz it does not grow there and thats the sin of my ancestors sop why god punish me for having non veg. then that is god s mistake becoz he let me born in this place.
            wat a logic . i have no choice just to do sin because of the fault of my ancestors ..Lols what a logic

          • Vik says

            @Waqas.

            Waqas. there is a popular saying in India, "if one searches with full confidence, one can even find GOD". Besides Waqas, my question is about today when u have access to vegetables in pakistan, why do u still slaughter innocent animals in the shitty festival bakr EID?

          • Aman says

            @waqas
            i won't get into the details of veg & non-veg debate, but Zakir Bhai says that Allah has created these(Peaceful) animals so that we can eat them !!
            Brother,a man's mother & wife have the same biological features. So taking a cue from this idiotic logic, should one start having sex with his mother??????

          • Waqas says

            @aman
            bro u said u have mind to analyze but i think u r not using that at all. different things are made to use different things. If a person does not have his hands he might eat food woth his feet but it does not mean every one start eating food from feet. some animals have been made to be eaten. If god does not want us to have non veg why did not he make the whole land where one can easilygrow veg. people live in deserts, western countries where temperature is -30 above one cant even think of puttin seed there to grow veg. those lands can never grow veg even country like england where there is a summer but even then their land does not have quality to grow veg. if God wants us to eat only veg, he would ve made veg available all over the world so one cant excuse.

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            brother, looks like u havent watched the end of the debate, if arya samaj never won, why would they be reciting the Vedic prayers at the end. Ur scholar abdullah tariq had droplets of sweat coming out of him. U just cant admit he lost. Brother note one thing. We hindus can make fun of ur religion as much as we want because its an outsider religion. Now, u cant make fun of Vedic dharma because it is the religion of ur ancestors, u make fun of it, u are disrespecting ur ancestors of whom u are here today. So, Waqas, be carefule boy.

          • Waqas says

            VIK
            muslims are jult 13 percent of the whole nation of inDia and still Zakir manages to call hundreds and thousands of people for his speech. You are like 70 crores in India ? cant u even organise 10 thousand people to debate Zakir ????????? what a shame.

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            Watch carefully the videos again, you would point out 3 major things-
            1) Abdullah Tariq accapted Vedas as first books of God given to the people.
            2) He failed to show the meanings of "kafir" and "deen" from any dictionary whereas Pandit Mahendra did so.
            3) Tariq was defeated on the verse of mary in which he first challenged to show any translation of the verse which says about breathing of soul into mary's private parts. When it was shown, Tariq was not able to even recite the translation properly, as you would have seen, Tariq saying "hhe hshe…. garded her….". When it was so clear about winner, a person with a brain does not need any announcement and that is why it was not done.

            Zakir knows about this debate and he also knows that he will be crushed in the similar way by Arya Samaj as his guru and speaker Tariq has been. He knows Arya Samaj have bigger scholars of islam than his own gang of mullahs who know only sura no.., chapter no….. and verse no…

          • Waqas says

            Arya
            muslims are jult 13 percent of the whole nation of inDia and still Zakir manages to call hundreds and thousands of people for his speech. You are like 70 crores in India ? cant u even organise 10 thousand people to debate Zakir ????????? what a shame.

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            Zakir's scholar of peace tv lost to Arya Samaj scholar. Zakir knows it. We dont need to have 10 thousand people to debate him. Any one of our scholar can easily crush him and he knows it, that is why he is not coming to debate us. At least now he should take up the challenge of debate with Arya Samaj as his scholar has lost.
            you were the one who was abusing Agniveerji by saying he is a liar as he does not have those videos. Now videos are available, what would you say about that?

          • Waqas says

            @Arya
            you call them videos??? i think then Ravi shankar lost to Zakir means Vedas lost to Quran too. U said he just needs 10,000 people to gather and he would accept your challenge. you cant even arrange 10,000 hindus for the debat. if he run away from your debatem, ask for an official apology about his comments on Vedas. You dont even have dare to do that. ??

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, Ravi Shankar is not a Vedic follower nor he is an Arya Samaji, Ravi Shankar is a yoga expert, they are 2 different things. Thats like saying the same difference between a christian and a muslim, suppose a christian loses a debate, does it mean islam lost too? Ravi Shankar's defence was love and respect, maximum he was a Geeta devotee. NOw, only Arya Samajis are Vedas defenders. The whole world knows that Ravi Shankar knows nothing of Vedas, if he did, he would be an Arya Samaji today.

            Waqas, u just cant accept the reality so that is why ur barking now, JUST FACE IT BRO………….ISLAM LOST TO ARYA SAMAJIS, meaning QURAN LOST TO VEDAS………………..

          • Arya says

            @Waqas
            you were the one who was praising Zakir bhai from the very first day and challenging Agniveerji to put the videos of Zakir's scholar. why did not you say all this before? Now you have lost to Agniveerji too.
            Where did I say Quran lost to Vedas? I just wrote-"Zakir's scholar of peace tv lost to Arya Samaj scholar". Now you have nothing to say and you are putting your words in my mouth!

          • Waqas says

            its not a law made by Allah, it used to happen that time only. you only want to criticize islam you dont see those evidence where muslims freed lot off slaves. Maria was brought a slave but Muhammad(SAW) married her and she also became the mother of his son too. you dont read the life style of Muhammad(SAW), he rules the whole arab but always spent his life in Porty, he did not even have proper bed to sleep and at the same time he was the ruler of arab.
            at that time, sex with slave was permitted with the consensus of slave. but you will never understand

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            wow, very well said, if sex slavery is not made by Allah, then why do i see 4 verses in the quran, i was told every single verse of the quran is from Allah right?

            Brother, if everything u said about ur prophet is true, then trust me, i respect him as a humanbeing. But from the evidence of hadiths and other islamic scholars, I havent been hearing good things about him lately.

            Well Waqas, today cheating ur spouses is common. Waqas, suppose ur wife (I have respect for her) wants to go out with me on a movie, now will u say its ok as long as she agrees? Waqas, please brother grow up and reject this trash

          • Arya says

            @Waqas
            1) Brother, I appreciate the good things of all the books. I dont say everything of Q+H wrong. But tradition of keeping slave is itself immoral and it was essential for a prophet to rule that out.
            2) Is Izar same as pads? In fact Izar is a cotton garment traditionally worn by muslims. Moreover if I take your meaning, and you gave a mother daughter example, then is it the thing which has to be the part of a book which is going to be read by crores of people of all ages. I ask something private to my wife is ok but what if I shout it in open and write it in my book which would be read by all?
            3) I read authentic tafseer's of Quran such as Jalalain, Husaini and in english, I read Yusuf Ali. I read translation of Vedas by Swami Dayanand and I would request you that until we put the english translation of vedas, you read Satyarth Prakash written by him.

          • Arya says

            @Waqas
            there are many more things which are natural but are of no use to others. for example every human is a result of sexual intercourse of his parents but it does not mean that he will tell, write all this to his followers, friends…that i am result of….
            come on brother, give me the convincing logic.

            instead of suggesting me to consult ahle hadith, you should go to him first because you even dont know how your books are referred, you claim that marriage of maria and muhammad is at many places, and muhammad's heart was not washed by zamzam.

          • Aman says

            @ waqas
            Brother, you said, "at that time, sex with slave was permitted with the consensus of slave. but you will never understand"
            In that case you agree that whatever Muhammad preached has become Irrelevant today. And what do you mean by the word "permitted" ?
            Who permitted?? Allah?? If Allah didn't permit then why did Muhammad do that? Being a Messanger, wasn't he supposed to act as per the Dictat of Allah instead of going thru the prevalent Inhuman Customs? Afterall he had such an easy access to allah!!!

          • Arya says

            @Waqas

            What about Rehana (a jewish girl whose husband was murdered by the mujahideens of muhammad), who refused to marry muhammad and then was taken away by muhammad as his sex slave?

          • Arya says

            @Waqas
            do you really not know about this incident? by the way you always ask me for the reference and I always give, what if I give this time also, you will say-things are quoted out of context…

            you give the hadith which says about maria marrying to muhammad

          • Aman Jha says

            @ WAQAS
            Brother first and foremost, am not here to criticize any religion!!! Al I wanna do is, follow the path of truth.. Take my word, I would happily accept Islam if it convinces me that it is indeed the part of truth!!! But all I find there is, denigerating women by keeping them as slaves & indulging in polygamy!!!! In Q+H, I've seen Allah addressing us as slaves!
            Just imagine, will your parents ever call you slaves? Certainly not !! Then how would God do that ! For me God is certainly not a Tyrrant , nor He is the head of a marketing team that would urge His followers to market his faith and indulge in Proselytism!! And the worst part is Allah orders the killing of those who leave the Islamic faith!! Brother, discard the quran& vedas for a minute and then think neutrally, will your parents order your killing if you have a difference of opinion with them & you decide to leave their house?????
            certainly there is no moral justification for all these..
            And I am really not the kind of person who would blindly believe semi-literate mullahs or even pandits for that matter!!! God has given me brain to analyze & realize!!!

          • Vik says

            @Waqas

            Waqas, my dear brother, I told u, everything in this world has a reaction when subjected to a force whether the thing is living or non living. Suppose, I hammer a lumber of wood, u see sawdust flying around it, its reaction baby. If i hammer a glass and it shatters. The reaction of the glass is that it shatters. So similarly if I pluck a potato, obviously it will have a reaction brother. Saying that Allah has given the quality to fruits and vegetables is not a convincing answer. I can tell u more differences between animals and plants. For example, plants dont have red blood and bones like humans and animals. For example, humans and animals portions dont grow back when cut like plants. Brother, tell me, tamotoes, potatoes, onions all come from the ground. NOw brother tell me, when i pluck a tomato, why is it still alive? According to ur logic it should be dead right?

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      wow, waqas, since u have nothing to say about ur islam getting caught by Neil Armstrong, now u bring up some porn scandals. Waqas, If I want , I can post infinite links of Pakistani or Arab Porn and show u ur so called muslim women behind the curtains, BUT I wont do that, because I have respect for this site. I showed u a regular propaganda. Waqas, by showing everyone this link, u have also revealed ur true character which tells us u enjoy watching these things………

      • Aman says

        @waqas
        Since you followed this news about a hindu swami having sex with an actress, you must have also followed how he has gone into oblivion after a tirade of cases filed against him for hurting people's sentiments.
        But one thing that i completely fail to understand is that why Muslims are having problem with this??? Don't you know about the deeds of your Rangeela Rasool??? At least hindus are sensible enough to renounce these things!!! Had Muhammad been on this Swami's place, he would have justified it by saying that it was Allah who ordered him to do that…this is precisely what he did when he was caught with his pant's down with either his wife's maid or his daughter-in-law. …and you idiot muslims even belive him and consider him as a prophet…LOL

      • Waqas says

        @VIK
        did any where in quran or hadeeth is written that mecca is in center of the earth. what was the point of publishing that link when we agrees to speak about only Vedas + Quran.
        what would you put porn videos of muslim since you know by yourself that hindu women are much superior in this kinda activity. show me a single porn web site which is run by a pakistani or muslim and i can show you hundredes of pron web site where your all hindu girls scandals are uploaded on the daily basis. in india there is a proper business of legitmate porn movies. show me a single muslim country where its legitimate. ??? you are in canada just compare your hindu girls and muslim girls over there ? you yourself would analyze what kinda clothes most hindu girls wear and what kinda clothes muslim girls wear . ok forget about canada . look at your city mumbai or bombay watever 50 percent of girls lose their virginity when they pass out from school only . What a shame. is that you have been teaching to your sisters and daughters over there? 35 percent of indian women have two affairs at the same time . do you have any answers for these questions or will you still bark with out any facts and stats

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          First off, I was on topic with this video when ur fanatic muslim scholars told me that Quran should be followed since it was revealed in the center of the earth. I was so shocked and I started laughing out hard. Then they posted this video claiming that Neil Armstrong proved Mecca to be center. The muslim scientists claimed that Neil went to space, and he started asking himself "who hung the dark earth, there? I know, it must be Allah, Allah has hung the dark sphere there" First off, couldnt ur muslim scientists think of a better way of lying, why would Neil Armstrong address GOD as Allah, since hes not even muslim? Then ur scholars claim that Neil heard the muslim prayer on the moon known as adhaan, again I never laughed so hard. When Neill was asked all this propaganda, Neil refused.

          But u went off topic bring in porn links. Waqas, I told u before, I have respect for this site, I dont want to upset u by showing the true nature of pakistani women and arab women on porn sites. I live in Canada, brother I see all ur paki women hanging out with sikh,hindu, and christian men. And they all dress up normally, not wearing any hijab.

          All these indian women have been inspired by whites and western culture otherwise in the old days, any hindu woman wasnt even allowed to step out of her home, but today the western world has inspired them. Same goes for pakistan tooo. Brother, I told u before tooo, I dont want to get into a worthless debate like this.

          Besides, I told u, lets stay with the islam-hinduism debate.

          Brother, please tell me, what do u have to say about sex slaves?

    • Siva says

      @Waqas
      Is this "swami" the best example you can give?? First you have to prove he is worth to be called swami by the Vedic Standard and don't just give example of any tom and dick who are self claimed swamiji ;)p
      Speak base on Quran and Vedas only to justify your believe.

      • Waqas says

        @SIVA
        thats what i have been doing too. i know this swami has nothing to do with your vedas or hindu religion . did i say anthing about vedas when i posted that link. VIK came out and he had nothin left to say about beg non veg debate that we were having and when he is losing this debate he posted a link first which has nothin to do with Quran+hadeeth. but did u ask him to apk only about vedas + Quran why because he is from your religion and he cant be asked. that was just a reply to VIK

  71. Waqas says

    @VIK
    the qualities that you are mentioning in animals and human beings can not differentiate one living thing with another. there are plants who eat insects and you knwo about them too. insects have blood and when they eat that it gets digested according to their nervous system. only blood and bones can not make a difference between a living creature . there are lot of insects which do not have bones at all. ant, bee etc. do you know how a fly is born, ???when you have nothin else to say you started barking about debate and Eid. did i ever abuse your vedas or any of your religious festival? i did abuse your PIGS arya samaj and you do with zakir . why crossing your limits?? any how as far as that Hijra ravi shankar is concern he has been given a title of biggest spirtual leader of India why not any of your pig arya samaj?the debate he came for was about Quran n vedas it was not about quran + geeta. if he was not the right person to speak about Vedas ? why dont you condemn him ? you condemn zakir becoz according to you he is giving wrong comments about Vedas why dont you condemn that Hijra then? dont you have balls to speak against your own person??? in that debate it clearly states that Zakir won that debate and vedas lost to Quran but if he was not the right guy to speak about Vedas then i would say the guy who debated with your PIG arya samaj was not the right guy to speak about Quran and vedas. 70 crore hindus cant even arrange 10 thousand people to debate with Zakir? are not you ashamed of your nation???

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Brother, I dont eat ants nor I eat carnivorous plants. I agree ants are living, but do u see anyone eating them. My comparison is for plants like apples and animals like chickens and cows u eat. Cows and sheeps are just like humans they posses red blood and bones. But show me an anatomy of a single plant that has a neverous system, its funny u say that……….if they have no blood,,,,,how can they have a nevvouse system?

      As far as Ravi Shankar goes, the debate was not about Vedas vs Quran, otherwise we would definitely pick an arya samaji to debate on behalf of Vedas.

      The debate was about concept of GOD in Hinduism and Islam. Now Waqas, HInduism does not equal Vedas. Hinduism as a religion is a product of Veds + Upanishads + Puranas + Ramayan + MahaBharat + Geeta. Basically Hinduism is not a one book based today. Yes, the most supreme scriptures are the Vedas, but many people are unaware of its teachings, that is why u see fake things like caste system. A common hindu today only limites himself to Puranas and Geeta, the problem with Vedas are they are too difficult to understand, so that is why they only use some verses in festivals for Vedas. So when u think of Hinduism, it also involves other books too besides Vedas, but Ravi Shankar was more of a Geeta fan.

      And for ur kind info, it was ur zakir that begged Shanker for a debate, not the other way around. And it wasnt even a debate to start off with, Shankar thought they would talk about the commonalities of both religions and their experiences. But ur asswipe zakir bhai mbbs, turned it into a debate.

      But the whole world knows only Arya Samaj are Vedic hindus that dont read any books except Vedas, so next time if u need a Vedic representative, go to an Arya Samaji.

      Besides, do u ever hear the word Vedas associated with Ravi Shankar? He is a spiritual yoga person known for art of living, so asking him to defend the Vedas is like asking a muslim to speak behalf of the quran……………ILLOGICAL brother?

      But ur Abdullah Tariq was an ISLAMIC scholar, so wot do u have to say about that?

    • Aman says

      @waqas
      You have been told innumerable times that it was never a debate in the very first place! it was only a dialogue so as to promote peace b/w hindus & muslims. Sri Sri Ravishankar only tried to make muslims more tolerant of others' faith,by showing them the similarities but you people simply don't understand the language of peace. And as far as that book is concerned Sri Sri Ravishankar withdrew it coz' he realized that it was no point teaching those semi-literates who instead of applying their brain, follow a blind cult which treats women as mere sex-objects.
      And come on waqas, even an illeterate person knows the deeds of your Rangeela Rasool !!!!! Sri Sri Ravishankar could have easily said that but he is not the kind of person who would elevate the status of non-entities like like zakir nayak, by debating with a fool whose knowledge is limited to sura no….page no…blah blah blah..
      But then we realized that if we don't contain this Fool, he would mislead more & more people with his nonsense, as is evident from your & Maria's case !!!! So all this debate & all stuff…
      Problem with you muslims is that when you people throw mud on others' faith you enjoy and when we become aggressive you people start crying!!!
      Waqas, do you know why Deoband Seminary issued fatwa on Zakir Nayak?? They were afraid that if hindus start finding anomalies in your quran, you people would simply have no answers!!! as there is no justification to sex-slavery & polygamy !!!
      by the way, am still waiting for your reply regarding god as a marketing head & wheather you parents would hire for your killing if you decide to leave their household, as per the tenets of islam!!

      • Aman says

        @ waqas
        Moreover the so-called debate was just a trap laid for Sri Sri Ravishankar .Muslims are afraid of the popularity of Art of Living. His organization is expanding like anything !! Art of living is spread in 154 countries including your Napak-istan. Every other day we see heads of muslim countries inviting Sri Sri Ravishankar!! just google what art of living has done in countries like iraq & palistine…
        Fanatic muslims like zakir nayak became threatened by his popularity among st Muslims and so did a Taqiah with Him.. tried Zakir Nayak tried his level best to provoke him, but He is too centred to be provoked by these scholars of sura no. ..page no…

    • Vik says

      @WAQAS

      Besides, do u ever hear the word Vedas associated with Ravi Shankar? He is a spiritual yoga person known for art of living, so asking him to defend the Vedas is like asking a christian to speak behalf of the quran……………ILLOGICAL brother?

      But ur Abdullah Tariq was an ISLAMIC scholar and he was speaking on behalf of the QURAN, so wot do u have to say about that?

      Brother, zakir bhai mbbs, has never come across Vedic expert or an arya samaji otherwise do u think zakir will have the guts to speak about Vedas infront of him.

      As far as Ravi Shankar goes, we dont need anyone like him to defend us, Ishwar has given us power to defend the Vedas ourselves, and that is what I am doing. Now, I am not famous like ur zakir bhai mbbs who can gather 10 000 people, otherwise I would do that and be the first to debate him.

      Besides, whats the guarantee that if we gather 10 000 people, he will debate us? Knowing infact how cunning he is, he might find a way to escape, since he knows what happened to Abdullah Tariq who is his scholar for PEACE TV.

      Besides, the whole world knows Ravi Shankar is not a debater, the biggest proof of that was in the video itself, when he was asked to speak for 1 hour, but he only spoke for 30 mins. So my question, to u is Waqas, why did zakir choose to debate someone who can hardly talk?

      Besides, have u ever seen zakir naik giving explanations on verses from Vedas? He simply speaks out like a parrot book number bla bla verse number bla bla……………………

      • Vik says

        @Aman

        yes, I agree we really cant repair these fools, in arguments, but the sad part is many of our hindus acknowledge their stupidity. I agree Ravi Shankar is a good person, I mean people like zakir are nothing compared to him. Ravi Shankar cured people by yoga, what did zakir doo? except barking like a parrot and misleading people. The funny thing is even muslims hate him, now what can u expect from a leader whose followers declared him a kafir?

        The funny thing is, zakir naik refuses to agree that talibans that rape and kill pakistanis everyday are terrorists just because he has not seen any proof.

        Aman, I ask u, if talibanis come on the tv and threaten the world to kill innocent people and openly rape women, how is that NOT proof?

        What does proof mean to zakir bhai MBBS? Does he expect Talibanis to come over to his house to dinnner and make them say in his ear, "hey zakir, were are terrorists, is that good enuff for a proof", then zakir says "no brother, I want proof" talibanis say "ok," they shoot his wife. Then they say again "is that proof good enuff?", zakir says "no brother, I want proof"

        then Talibanis cut zakirs fingers off and zakir yells out "brother, I beleive u, stop, its a sin to kill a muslim brother, quran says in surah 9 verse 47 , find kafirs and kill them, not meeeeeeeee"

        see thats the mentality of zakir naik

        MARIA WAQAS………………..please wake up

        • Aman says

          @vik
          Infact, Agniveerji has left no scope for discussions, by attaching everything with proof, in all his posts vis-a-vis Parrot Nayak, but as the saying goes ," Monkeys Don't Need Ladder To Climb".

          • Vik says

            @Aman

            See, we give proofs of every arguments, we dont bullshit things like these people, lying is authenticated in their religion. Taqiah means lying for the benefit of islam, and thats what these people do. I mean why would someone kill someone just for leaving islam, I mean a person should only be killed if he takes the life of another human or animal, but if someone leaves islam, they get a capital punishment. Another stupid islamic law is that if two men are gay, they get executed………….Thank GOD we dont have this stupid sharia law in india……….. But I am shocked girls like Maria are happy with sex slavery, I mean, one should ask her, how would she feel if she were a slave?

  72. SDC says

    Hinduism is not a uniform religion as the other religions, viz. Islam, Christianity, etc., are. Hinduism is an amalgamation of ideas and thoughts accumulated over thousands of years. We believe that the universal element cannot be limited to just one book, in fact in some stotras it is clearly mentioned that the limitless can never be limited. Every rishi (seer) gave his understanding of the unlimited entity and like in the ocean there are innumerable waves emanating from the same ocean but no single wave is an identical copy of the other, likewise every enlightened person's understanding of the divine is different. So, to an outsider it seems very perplexing and even to some hindus as well. Ekam sat viprah bahudaa vadanti, Truth is one, the intelligent describe it in different ways. Ur allah is a limited entity and therefore for u the truth is limited to just 1 book and 1 prophet, our kalma as rightly stated by Swami Agnivesh is la ilaha illallah zarra zarra (every animate, inaminate object) rasulullah.

  73. Arya says

    @Waqas
    brother, do you know the history related to Quran 66:3-5, hadith-Bukhari, vol3,book-43:648? Just go to any aalim and ask him about it, you would know who was Maria. She was mother of muhammad's son is true but it does not prove maria as his wife.
    Brother I dont know about Arabs but in our culture (both India and Pakistan), mothers take care of the issues like menstruation, and as time progresses, one knows more and more about these. But brother think of some hadith regarding taking bathe from the single pot and that too witnessed by others, bath of janaba, doing sex with slave girl in the absence of wife(you would know more when you consult an aalim about above references), and many more such things. What good these hadith teach even to an adult?

    Videos-why did not you see the videos? you were desperately asking for those! See those videos again and see yourself almost half the people were muslims. By the way have you seen any debate of Zakir in a "neutral environment"? You have again come to 70 crores of hindus. Do you follow crowd or ideology? Brother, Vedas talk of only one God some of whose properties are-
    "God is existent, intelligent and blissful. He is formless, omniscient, just, merciful, unborn, endless, unchangeable, beginning-less, unequalled, the support of all, the master of all, omnipresent, immanent, un-aging, immortal, fearless, eternal and holy, and the maker of all. He alone is worthy of being worshiped."
    This is the second principle of Arya Samaj based on Vedas. You compare Quranic Allah with the above Eeshvar and know yourself who is the real God. I again invite you to your original Dharm of Vedas which your ancestors were proud of.

  74. syed says

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_camel's_urine_make_you_healthy_and_beautiful
    for Everyone esply for Waqas bhai… regarding the questions raised by our Brothers of Arya Samaaj ( after I read some of your comments and ur blog above ) there are certian thing which we (humna) thinks that are useless here m refering to the few questions raised by you and your friends, things which we can do, but does not seems to be logic. here I can tell you that Human brains cannot think very far or very logical or think what was the reason behind what is been told by Almighty so its better think, think again and again before u conclude anything… I like the research you have done on Quran & Hadith its great but I may only request you to open ur eyes and see the beauty of it.. other wise you will be ther person/people who will regret it at the END.

    • Arya says

      @syed
      brother ask Rehana about the beauty of islam, whose husband was killed in Bani Qureza massacre and who, after seeing her husband beheading, was proposed by the prophet (best man ever born according to many muslims) for marriage and taken away as sex slave when refused to become his wife. There are many more examples which I can give to show beauty of islam.
      Brother, better you come to the Vedic Dharma which is the only religion in true sense. Vedic Eeshvar does not wait for any END to give justice, in fact He is continuously doing so.

    • Aman says

      @syed
      1. Brother, i went thru the link, but strangely it never says that camel's urine is useful and as far as that research paper by Dr. Jassam is concerned , medical science doesn't believe in one-off research paper !
      2. The research given here reminds me of the research cited by Dr. Zakir Naik of that farmer in USA!!!
      3.Strangely,It also expose the contradictory nature of quran!!
      4.Why do you undermine yourself, by saying that human mind can't think that far? If those semi-literate mullahs can read and interpret quran, why can't you ????
      5. It seems that you are in quest of truth but still a bit bugged by that syndrome, when you write that it will be us who will regret in the END !!!

  75. muslim says

    When Islam was reveled to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), slavery was a worldwide common social phenomenon; it was much older than Islam. Slavery was deeply rooted in every society to the extent that it was impossible to imagine a civilized society without slaves.

    In spite of this social fact, Islam was the first religion to recognize slavery as a social illness that needed to be addressed. Since slavery was deeply rooted in the society, Islam did not abolish it at once. Rather, Islam treated slavery in the same manner it treated other social illnesses. Islam followed the same methodology of gradual elimination in dealing with this social disease as it did with other social illnesses, for example: the prohibition of alcohol in three steps.

    Concerning having slave women, we would like to let you know that it happens to be a practice necessitated by the condition in which early Muslims found themselves vis-a-vis non-Muslims, as both parties engaged in wars. Slave women or milk al-yameen are referred to in the Qur'an as “Those whom your right hand possess” or “ma malakat aymanukum”; they are those taken as captives during conquests and subsequently became slaves, or those who were descendants of slaves.

    Thus, it was a war custom in the past to take men and women as captives and then turn them into slaves. Islam did not initiate it, rather, it was something in practice long ago before the advent of Islam. And when Islam came, it tried to eradicate this practice, bit by bit. So it first restricted it to the reciprocal practice of war, in the sense that Muslims took war captives just as the enemies did with Muslims.

    But as it aimed at putting an end to such issue, Islam laid down rules which would eventually lead to eradicating the practice. So it allowed Muslims to have intercourse with slave women taken as captives of just and legitimate wars. In so doing, the woman would automatically become free if she got pregnant. What's more, her child would also become free.

    Not only that, Islam also ordered a Muslim to treat the slave woman in every respect as if she were his wife. She should be well fed, clothed and given due protection. In the family environment, she had the opportunity to learn about Islam and was free to accept it or reject it. She also had the opportunity to earn her freedom for she could be ransomed.

    In the light of the above-mentioned facts, and the nature of the question posed by people, it's clear that some people misunderstand the wisdom behind the permissibility of having female slaves and think that it is meant to unleash men’s desires and give them more enjoyment. Never! That is not the point! It is, rather, means of freeing slaves; and this is clarified above in the fact that if a master got a female slave pregnant, then he could neither sell her nor give her away as a present. And if he died, she would not be considered part of his property. She'd receive her freedom and her baby would also be free.

    But, we have to stress that this case should not be confused with that of female servants or maids, for they are free and not slaves. Therefore, it is forbidden to engage in sexual relations with them except through an Islamic marriage.

    Slavery has been abolished by international conventions, and goes in line with aims and objectives of Islam, as it has called for centuries ago.

    As for marrying slaves, it is something permissible under two conditions: first, if one is unable to pay the dowry of a free woman. Second, if there is fear of committing adultery if one doesn’t get married. This is clarified by the following verse: “And whose is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you.” (An-Nisaa’: 25)

    This verse shows that Muslim men should abstain from illicit relations and seek enjoyment through marriage to free women or through their female slaves.

    In conclusion, Allah has forbidden certain types of behavior and permitted other kinds of behavior as a safeguard to the individual and to the society. Allah has forbidden fornication and adultery. However, in the case of captives whom your right hands posses, it's something necessitated by the special circumstances which were created when the Muslims were at war"

    • Arya says

      @muslim
      I challenge you to show any verse from Quran which forbids muslims to keep slaves. Slavery has been removed because of the efforts of noble people of all religions and not because of doctrines of islam. muhammad himself kept many sex slaves it means islam justifies slavery. He should have opposed this shameful custom as he was prophet but instead of doing so, he enjoyed it. It proves that muhammad was not a prophet, Quran is not from God, and islam is not for the humanity.
      I invite you to Vedic Dharm in which every one has right to meet God through Yog without any mediator.

    • Vik says

      @GHGH

      it doesnt matter how nicely a master treats his female slave, but still having sex with a woman other than your wife shows immorality of a character. This way I can say, suppose you are the caretaker of your entire family including your sisters, mother, and aunts. Will it be right to have sexual relations for your cousins and aunts, even though they are under your property? Islam is pure insanity if it in any way tries to justify slavery. In Vedic Dharma, every woman is suppose to respected as a mother or sister except your wife. See, thats the beauty of the Vedic Dharma, go ask your mother, your sisters, your aunts, and all other females in your family, and give them a choice, which religion would they choose to follow, a religion like islam that may target them as sex slaves, or a pious noble religion like Vedic Dharma/Hinduism where they will be highly respected as mothers and sisters.

      Sad part is even fanatic muslim girls who follow zakir bhai mbbs, find female sex slavery applicable and noble.

      I would recommend that you reject trash like quran and accept the real noble Vedic Dharma that your ancestors were following.

  76. Waqas says

    @VIK
    sorry for the late reply was just busy with my personal things anyway you said Ravi Shnakar is more of a geeta fan and you know things by yourself that Geeta contradicts Vedas. You said Hindusim is about diifferent books and you mentioned mahabharta too in mahabharta it clearly mention of killing animal. i laughed when u differentiate ants with animals. Bro in order to have soul one does not need nervous system or blood. if one thing is alive its alive if one thing is not its not. You animals have soul, if thats true then animals who have good souls should not kill animals but you know about the animals who only eat meet. they cant even have 1 gram of grass or vegetable? wat about them . Vedas are difficult to understand hahaha Why God make such a book which would be difficult to understand for people. ?? forget about the sects of muslims, 100 percent muslims believe in the authenticity of Quran and more than 80 percent in book of Hadiths ? i think only 5 to 10 percent Hindus know about Vedas and other are following garbage like Purana Missmurirti Ramayan and Mahabhartha and geeta. If your arya samaj are true scholars of Vedas, why are not they spreading it.
    having a conversation between you and aman does not make you right. You and him believe in the same ideology. If that Dumb ass did not know about the format of debate why did he ask Zakir to speak first since he knew that Dr Zakir always speak at 2nd.

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      welcome back Waqas, good to see you back in this debate. Puranas, Ramayan, Mahabharat, all have been corrupted or adulterated. Only Vedas are still pure and unchanged. Now the rest of the books, its a mixture, Luckily many good scholars were able to separate the interpolations from the good interpretations so that is why we have some book versions out there which are good to read and are truthful. NOw, people like u or zakir have read the wrong ones and they criticize hinduism. Now, it doesnt matter, the reall scriptures for hindus that they must perform their deeds according to are Vedas. Vedas no where states that meat eating is allowed. Even ramayan doesnt have such nonsence im talking about the true version.

      Vedas are for professionals ok not some Tom Dick or Harry. That is why people who dont understand they have to rely on brahmins, otherwise, once they start to understand they will interpret Vedas correctly themselves.

      Brother, ur quran contains full loads of garbage and yet u follow it. U know and I know, wot kind of sick deeds ur prophet has done yet u follow him. We hindus no need to follow any human like mohammad all we follow is GOD and to attain bliss from him. Brother go read the quran urself, u will see childish things like allah sits on the throne, allah has two hands (I thought he was formless right?), etc. Allah allows sex slavess and 72 virgins in heaven. Brother do u have answers for all this?

      • amanvik says

        @VIK
        see today you proved it by yourself that you do have caste system in your religion. Vedas are not for tom dick and harry its only Brahmins LOL . means every hindu is tom dick and harry only Brahmins are superior . I dont think there is anything left in this debate now. Good bye VIK

        • Aman says

          @amanvik
          1.first have that much strength in your circumcised dick to debate with your real name…oops Taqiah!!
          2. its beyond your comprehension what does the word brahmin means. but for others who are following this thread , i wud refer them to go to the page, There is No Caste-System in Vedas, instead of writing and explaining it again and again..coz' everybody is not like those semi-literate followers of zakir

        • Vik says

          @Waqas

          Waqas, ur intention of running away from me proves that u lost to me in this debate. There is no caste system in Vedas. Shudra simply means an illiterate and when he starts to study, he can become a brahmin as well. Vedas are for everyone, but it needs motivated readers. Ur quran was written in a childish language that is why even babies can recite it like parrots, but sadly they dont know the meanings of those verses in their. Sadly, at the age of 6 u guys make ur kids recite a stupid book which contains references to sex slaves and 72 hookers in heaven. How will u relpy to ur child when he askes about sex slaves????

          Quran……………….revealation……………hahahah grow up muslims please grow up

      • says

        instead of banging ur head……y dont u ask zakir naik to agree for debate with mahindra pal arya……….then we can talk…….if zakir naik is the best……we will see that in debate……simple is that…..

        y ur wasting time of ur and others……

  77. Waqas says

    @Arya
    I know there is a difference of opinion between different scholars on hazrat Maria(R.A). In Hadith,s it is also not prove that She was not married to Muhammad(SAW). Taking bath from the same pot does not mean intentionally taking bath together.for example, you have a tub at your home and you have a pot to put water on your head and your wife uses the same bath room too means you and and your wife take bath from the same path. Arya you are very good with playing words. Things are written in a different way and you know that by yourself but you intentionally want to take them in an opposite way just to prove Islam is not a religion of God. Bath of Janaba, means bath after doing sex with your wife. Why Muhammad(SAW) explained this to Sahaba s so no 1 can create differences in their minds.Islam is a complete way of living therefor it also discusses the issues of menstruation, sex and other parts of life too so one can lead and live his life according to Islamic way.
    You were sayin Dr Zakir never had a debate in a neutral environment . LOl I THINK U have never seen his debates that he did in USA. Dr Ahmed Deedats Debate. He even challenged that ass hole ali sina to debate him in canada but he refused to debate live. The debate he had with Ravi shankar in Banglore, i think you better check by yourself that how many hindus live in this city and how many muslims live in it. what else kind of neutral environment do you need?? If Ravi shankar was not the best person to speak for vedas why dont u speak against him, why dont you go to public to have an arya samaj to debate with Zakir, Cant u arrange just 10 15thousand people in order to make your 70 crore hindus on the right path? if not i think instead of wasting time here on this web site you should bring your own hindu path on the right path first who are following books which contradicts vedas at all

    • Aman says

      @waqas
      I can undrstand your obsession with sri sri ravishankar!! when you hv nothing to say, you come back to that debate. If you can recall, the topic was to show similarities b/w hinduism & islam. and i have told you this innumerable times. fanatic muslims feel threatened by the popularity of sri sri ravishankar among muslims. and this all dialogue-turned-debate was nothing but to provoke him so that he start pointing faults in islam. and zakir could then go to those semi-literate muslims like you and say that sri sri ravishankr is anti-muslim. unfrotunately, zakir's sinister plan failed !!!
      and when we have come for a debate in real sense then zakir is shrugging his ass off.
      and you always say that why can't we people arrange a big crowd…dude, we challanged him to come to rishi mela in ajmer but….as we know.
      moreover, what is the point in exposing him infront of hindus?? we don't consider a THARKI paedophile as a prophet!! we are sensible enough to judge b/w right and wrong!!! we wan't to expose him in front of muslims!! we shall be more than happy if the debate b/w agniveerji & zakir mian takes place amongst muslims so that muslims can reject this falsehood called quran!!

      and you didn't reply to my query if your parents would arrange for your killing if you decide to leave their house due to a diff. in opinion..as same is the case given in quran vis-a-vis those who leave islam
      THIS IS THE 3rd TIME I AM ASKING YOU THIS!!!!!

      • Waqas says

        @AMAN
        i think u didnt read the first of my sentence it was meant only for arya ? why r u coming again n again in others debates. Better talk with VIK and praise each other thats it.
        the reason i m not replying to you clearly shows that i dont wanna talk to u. dont you have anything else to do??? by using this kind of language against my religion or Quran what do u want to proof?? just imagine you have a sister or mother at home ? cant i abuse them ? i know you hindus dont have ghairat in you therefor 50 perecent girls are losing their virginity in mumbai when they pass out from school? thats your religion. i can abuse your Vedas and your krishan rama etc too but i wont. you are asking about my parents . i can sacrifice my parents for Islam. I can sacrifice my kids on islam i can sacrifice my brothers and sisters on Islam. got your answer now better stay away from this debate because i am not going to reply u after that

        • Aman says

          @waqas
          There is a beautiful phrase in hindi which is applicable here to you," KHISIYANEE BILLI KHAMBHA NOCHE". lol
          1. Don't bring statistics or else it will be very difficult for you to justify the deeds of ur muslim bretheren!!
          2. Good to know , though late, that you are ready to sacrifice your parents,siblings and children for those 72 prostitutes…Didn't knew that a man's libodo would take him to such a low level!
          3. When you use unconstitutional words its ok and when i reply in the same fashion, you object…..You are a typical disciple of zakir naik..he works on this same theory…muslims should be allowed to worship and build their terror-breeding mosques in secular countries , but the same can't be accorded to non-muslims in muslim countries..afterall allah is ao just..right!

          • Aman says

            @waqas
            Even I am not interested to debate with a guy who has put his brain in his groin

          • waqas says

            then y were u comin again n again to ask me questions? did i ever interact you or did i ever come to ask u any question? it was u who were coming again n again to ask me questions? and were using filthy language against my religion n quran. i m on this site for over couple of months now show me a single phrase where i abused your vedas???? By Using this language you can only hurt one sentiments you can not convince people to choose hinduism. Muslim s main purpose is to spread Islam n mashah Allah Islam is spreading. Its the fastest growing religion and its the religion where people are converting into it the most . Thats it. Thats what we need.

          • Aman says

            i am absolutely in sync with you that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
            Reasons:
            1. You breed like cattles, Not like humans.
            2. your strategy of womb to womb infection continues…
            3. you treat women as farms to produce babies..all the respect that islam can accord to women is – sex-slaves, concubines, being one of the multiple wives, producing babies etc etc

            Waqas you are ending up being a very bad looser. Now that Arya has provided you with all the relevent verses which exposes the ills of islam, you all resorting to irrelevent topics…..keep it up..we need people like you on this site so that one can see the real face of islamic followers……

          • Aman says

            @waqas
            Thanks for pointing it out brother. I just forgot to mention the Taqiah methods used by the likes of zakir to decieve innocents and convert them to Islam!!

  78. waqas says

    @Arya
    you know thats the beauty of our religion, our books that a dumb person like u can read things and think it in hid own way of mind and can change the direction to anything just in order to make it wrong. You say again n again about arya samaj ? what the fuck hey have done for your religion. they did not even have guts to translate into english and publish on internet so people can read easily or may be VIK is right Vedas are not for tom dick and harry(low caste people) its only for Brahamans so better keep this book to your brahmins only. Quran is for the whole humanity and therefor masha Allah its the fastest growing religion even in india too.

    • Arya says

      @Waqas
      you asked me to show the hadith of bathing from same pot together, I gave. Now you have lost completely and have nothing to say, that is why you have started abusing here. I ask you, what Muhammad has done for humanity except legalizing polygamy, sex slavery, pedophilia, bloodshed….

      Anyway, God bless you and may He enlighten our souls with truth.

      • Waqas says

        @Arya
        What Muhammad(SAW) has done for this world no has done before neither one will be able to do. for the sake of argument even if i belive they topok bath from the same pot whats the big issue in it. They Were husband and wife. through out this whole debate you have only pointed sex with slaves is your major one. and its just about thinking nothing else. you can not point out a single mistake in Quran +Hadith. and you dont even have courage to put english translation of vedas on net neither that asshole agniveer

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      Waqas, showing me 15 fakes reciting fake verses from a fake religion, is not going to help u win the debate over me. U failed to refute all my points. If zakir naik enjoys converting common hindus to islam, then let me tell u this, Arya Samaj is known to convert ur leaders like maulanas and molvis to Vedic Dharma. Brother, if ur leaders are rejecting false hood, then u being a follower should accept Vedic Dharma.

    • Vik says

      @Waqas

      brother waqas, there is a saying that whenever a thief is caught, he says "i am not the thief", now if cops believed him, today every thief would be roaming around stealling things rather than being behind bars. But cops are smart and they look at evidence to prove whether he is a thief or not. Same thing goes with deedat or naik, they know very well their religion is wrong and just like someone who smokes knows smoking is injurous to health and they remain ignorant, similarly naik wont reject islam instead he is using illogical claims to defend a fake religion like islam. Waqas, tell me, will ur sister or mother like polygamy internally, I know the answer is no but u will still say yess. At the same time, islam has good intentions of helping divorcee women, but what is the need to help these women by marriage? U can consider them as sisters tooo and help them. Later, zakir claims there are more females in theis world, that is why polygamy is allowed. Waqas wot census data did zakir look up that from, from the real census there are more males than females, so should he recommend the reverse now?

      Waqas, I m still telling u, return to the Vedic Dharma, and satify ur ancestors. U dont have arab blood running in ur veins, u have blood of hindus or vedantists. So please reunite ur blood with its root teachings.

  79. Vik says

    @Waqas

    Internally means they really dont like it but they have to accept it in order to not violate Quran. Zakir naik has been proven false if u dont bleev me, look below there is a link of sex ratio in usa and other countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by

    brother usa clearly says the ratio is one for ages 15-35

    USA, alone has equal number of males to females than how the hell are there 10 million more females than males? from what census did he get this from? anyways i provided u the link, and u will see zakir is caught red handed. As far as his videos go, look at this one where he said there are more females in other countries beside usa as well, brother, if there are gays out there, dont forget there are lesbians out there too, and lesbians outnumber gays so if i were u i would do research before opening my mouth. Brother, Vedas forbid us to kill innocent animals so how can Vedas tell us to kill young females? All hindus who do such acts are sinners in the eyes of GOD, I agree they are evil for killing girls and i myself dont support them. A female baby is considered a devi (pious status of a woman). These hindus kill their daughters because they are poor and dont have money to raise them or give dowry at time of their marriage. And how about ur asshole pakistani muslims, when girls are 5 years of age, if u guys are poor, u guys sell them off to brothels, where they become future prostitutes. These evil hindus give the girls only one final pain, but u muslims plunge ur daughters into endless journey of pains.

    Now here is the video in which zakir naik lies about populations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9fkSdo_AU

  80. Vik says

    @Waqas

    yes, u are right, what mohammad has done, no one has done for this world and no one will ever do. Mohammad legalized pedophillia and sex slavery. Mohammad created exotic desires in fanatic muslims of getting 72 hookers in heaven and running alcohol…wow, jannat is more like a bar, where u have tanks of alcohol and women dancing left right around u, please waqas grow up and leave this stupid religion and return back to ur true Vedic roots. As I said islam is growing due to child birth not conversion. Conversion rate is much smaller compared to the child birth rate. Waqas, before u end up molesting 5 year old babies after being inspired by ur quran, it will be a good idea to reform.

  81. Sameer says

    Muslim fanatics simple test will expose your Koran if Koran is right then the DNA of Jews and Muslims should match because Koran claims that Jews and Muslims come from same father Abraham but they are not same so KORAN IS BIG LIE. Brother the people who gave their daughters and woman's to Mughals have converted to Islam mostly the Pakistanis. Most of the cowards Pakistanis were converted like this only they gave their daughter and mother to Afghans and converted to Islam. When Aurangazeb tried to forcefully convert Hindus his Mughals empire were wiped out from India.

  82. Thokoo says

    Dr. Zakir Haramzada Yazeed ke Olad He Sala. Is ke Maan ke Choot peh thook doon Jahan se ye harame nikla he.

  83. Raja says

    what muslims do not understand is that they are just plain big time LIARS. they quote Hindu scriptures in support of Mo's prophethood and then say these are not revelations of god. atleast humans are not capable of giving such accurate prophecy.

    the reality is that muslims are desperate to hide the vulgarity and criminality which Mo indulged during his life.

    • Vik says

      @Raja

      very well said brother, people like zakir are easily caught with contradictions here. For example, zakir makes up stupid claims saying mohammad in Vedas, and then he says Vedas may not be the word of GOD, I mean, if according to zakir naik, mohammad is accurately described in Vedas, why does he refuse to admit Vedas being divine? See this is an obvious contradiction, people can only laugh at this. The truth Vedas never speak of mohammad and never will because Vedas never prophecize nor they contain history. Another fact is that zakir naik is an idiot.

  84. prash_ says

    i would like to reply jackas, waqas whatever

    first of all its been told several times that caste is not varna.
    but u wont digest that. why will u ?

    that being said,
    i would like to ask a question.
    do u promote sc/st quota system? as in would u like to operated upon by a dr. who doesn't know shit but
    somehow gets the degree ?

    so thats all ur answers there. a brahmin should never be taught by a shudra.
    just like idiots should not be debated with.
    they only bring u down to their level and defeat u their, as ur down to their
    level and they have more practice on that level.

    and to my sanatan dharmi bros i would like to say:
    after the mughal attack and forced conversions, alot of people wanted to convert back to hinduism.
    but shankaracharya didn't agree to it. can u tell me why ?

    if we believe in karmas, we know birth is also decided by that.
    do u really think u can reason people like that?
    their samskaras will stop them their. if u give anyone knowledge. if they dont deserve it they will spit on u for that. thats what manas is. the cosmic mind looks after everything. thats gods security.

    u need not break ur heads on who is saying what.
    gita says: no one is capable of giving pain or pleasure to anyone else. its their own karmas.

    be happy and content and work on yourselves. thats where the focus should be ! ! !

  85. prash_ says

    ardhajal gagri chalkat jaye.
    therefore a shudra ( a small person, who cant think big, for everyone )
    his only hope towards enlightenment is to serve someone who knows more.

    unless the varnas are pure, the shudra will feel ashamed of serving and want things he doesn't deserve.
    vaishya will exploit people in the markets, ksahtriyas will fear his life and wont go for war for his people.
    a ksahtriya puts his life for his people hence he has a higher place. a small person is called small ( kshudra )
    cause he wont do so. why there are sc/st quotas everywhere but not in the army ?

    above all, a learned personm a brahmin who masters his mind, brain should be above all.
    he alone knows the patterns of nature and give us what we want.

    thats the context,
    thank you,

    jai hind, jai bharat

    btw. this war is not between hindus/mulims/jews/chris.
    this war is between the light and no light, ie dark
    therefor surya – sura and asura meaning no light. all light is knowledge
    asuras fakes to be the one as they cant create another. so they lie. out of their ignorance.

    anyone who says OMmm 9 x _ (1, 2, 3, …) times in brahmamuhurta (4 am to 6 am)
    knows what an "infinite beam of light " is. thats what a shivlinga is.
    inside our own spines. the asuras can never take that out. they can never break this temple.
    truth alone has all the powers.

    hari om

  86. ashwairya says

    when a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by the sign that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
    JonathanSwift
    This proverb is dedicated to zakir naik

  87. Anubha Gaur says

    Hi,
    My name is Anubha Gaur.

    you said
    “I was shocked to find that Dr Zakir Naik has done NOTHING MORE THAN simply copying-pasting from Maulana Abdul Haque Vidyarthi’s book, ”

    why were you shock,….i have seen his vedios before giving lectures he had already mentioned that it is not his study
    …its fine atleast he is transfering his knowledge..doing noble work for humanity……and above all he always give REFERENCE while delivering his lectures…… bcoze i have alredy done cross checked his REFERENCES….

    you said,
    “he refused to accept that Vedas can be revelations.”

    have you really gone through his vedios…I DOUBT….. bcoze I have seen his vedios were he has clearly mentioned that that VEDAS are WORDS OF GOD…..

    please go thrugh the vedios once again……

    are you against MUSLIMS or against Zakir Naik ?????

    you need not meet him personaly ….bzce you can get your answers just by watching his vedios …

    • says

      Namaste

      1. We were shocked because he has never ever acknowledged that he is taking material word-by-word from a Qadiyani book. He cannot do so because as per his ideology, he cannot claim that Ram/ Krishna etc were also prophets, as Qadiyanis say.

      2. Zakir Naik is a doctor and he should clearly known that if he copy-pastes so significantly from any book, he should acknowledge the author. Or else it is called plagiarism. But if he mentions Qadiyani source, his Al Qaeda group may thrash him.

      3. Zakir in his videos claims to be expert in comparative religion. But he has produced no material except these copy-paste from Qadiyani book in comparative religion. He hardly knows Urdu or Sanskrit, and thus should not claim expertise in comparative religions.

      4. Please refer to his IRF website, He clearly says that he is not sure whether Vedas are revelations or not. Though he proves Muhammad in Vedas, he still says so because both articles had different sources of copy-pasting. If indeed he is convinced that Vedas predict Muhammad, then he should clearly proclaim that Vedas contain revelations and are divine books. But if he does so, it would be against his brand of Islam.

      5. We have watched his videos and are convinced that only semi-literate foolish people can fall in their trap. We are also convinced that he is disgrace in name of humanity, forget about he doing anything good. Reasons are clear:
      - he claims that only Muslims will go to heaven and all others would burn in hell forever.

      - he claims that Muslims should be allowed to build mosques in non-Muslim countries but non-Muslims should be banned from building temple/churches in Muslim countries

      - he supports Osama Bin Laden. He says he doesn’t know if he is actually a terrorist. But he calls America terrorist. Does he have special intelligence report to call America terrorist but not Osama? Why doesnt he adopt same standards for osama and America, even if he hates america.

      - His references are correct but interpretations are wrong and stupid. He deliberately quotes from anti-Hindu books. Similarly he deliberately quotes wrong interpretations from Quran.

      - He justifies polygamy and animal killing on most stupid and false reasons and wrong facts. Refer articles here.

      - Most young terrorists consider him role model.

      - He falsely publicized that he defeated Ravi Shankar in debate. But he refuses to debate Arya Samaj for obvious reasons.

      Its a matter of grief that so-called broadminded Hindus today know nothing about their foundation, and in garb of secularism tend to promote falsehood from outside. Ignorance coupled with inferiority complex is the sure-shot recipe for doom of any society.

      • Aadil says

        Agniveer
        Not dream fight with Dr Zakir Naik. He is goodest Islamic scholar and comparitive religion. He is knowing your vedas and puranas more then you fool hindus. HE IS NOT TALK WITH ANY TOM DIC HERI. Fear Allah and stop all this. You not nowing the fire of hell wait for you.

    • Aadil says

      Anubha Gaur is a dumb hindu trying to proving of the vedas is best then quran. InshaAllah we muslims not need you kafir to praising Dr Zakir Naik. Not fool people that Vedas are divine. Mashaallah Allah have gives us Quran and Vedas are no divine but crap. And wait some times, time is come when we muslims again overtake you and India becoming Islam Alahamdulillah. Than you will knowing what is veda and what is quran.

      Either convert to islam if you loving Dr Zakir Naik or remain in shit hindu dharam.

      • Vik says

        @Aadil

        looks like u havent read ur Quran, otherwise if u had, u would know the example and the definition of crap. All u musllims know is to take over other countries, but dont think we are still nice as we used to in the past, today, even if u think of taking over india or vedic dharma, we willl destroy u the same way we destroyed ur moghal emperors, and then we will take ur lands and donate them to charity.

      • Kaffir786 says

        AADIL YOUR ZAKIR NAIK HAS HIMSELF ADMITTED THE GREATNESS OF VEDAS INDIRECTLY. He said that allah name is in Vedas. One of the names of INDRA AND MOON GOD IS ALA in vedas which can be pronounced as allah. SO ALLAH IS SMALL VEDIC GOD LORD INDRA OR MOON GOD

        ALSO GREAT PSYCHOLOGIST CG JUNG HAS EXPOSED JEHOVAH/ALLAH’S TRUE NATURE. According to Jung Jehovah/Allah is non other than ROMAN GOD JUPITER/JOVE, whose Greek counterpart is ZEUS AND INDIAN COUNTERPART IS LORD INDRA. So According to CG JUNG AND MANY OTHER IMMINENT HISTORIANS AND PSYCHOLOGIST ALLAH/JEHOVAH IS LORD INDRA A SMALL VEDIC GOD. “SO VEDA IS THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE” SEE THIS WEBSITE FOR REFERENCE:

        http://seatofgod.com/jupiterbiblicalastrologicalaspects/id21.html
        http://jesus-messiah.com/html/jove.html

        SO ZAKIR NAIK HAS HIMSELF ACCEPTED THE GREATNESS OF VEDAS.

      • Kaffir786 says

        AADIL YOUR ZAKIR NAIK HAS HIMSELF ADMITTED THE GREATNESS OF VEDAS INDIRECTLY.

        He said that allah name is in Vedas. One of the names of INDRA AND MOON GOD IS ALA in vedas which can be pronounced as allah. SO ALLAH IS SMALL VEDIC GOD LORD INDRA OR MOON GOD

        ALSO GREAT PSYCHOLOGIST CG JUNG HAS EXPOSED JEHOVAH/ALLAH’S TRUE NATURE. According to Jung Jehovah/Allah is non other than ROMAN GOD JUPITER/JOVE, whose Greek counterpart is ZEUS AND INDIAN COUNTERPART IS LORD INDRA. So According to CG JUNG AND MANY OTHER IMMINENT HISTORIANS AND PSYCHOLOGIST ALLAH/JEHOVAH IS LORD INDRA A SMALL VEDIC GOD. “SO VEDA IS THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE” SEE THIS WEBSITE FOR REFERENCE:

        http://seatofgod.com/jupiterbiblicalastrologicalaspects/id21.html
        http://jesus-messiah.com/html/jove.html

        SO YOUR ZAKIR NAIK HAS HIMSELF ACCEPTED THE GREATNESS OF VEDAS AND EXPOSED THAT ALLAH IS SMALL VEDIC GOD INDRA AND NOT A SUPREME GOD.

      • SDC says

        Your evil intentions are well too known, Aadil, but this time round u will meet with a tougher and determined resistance, so do not expect any cakewalk this time round. By the way, ur quran and hadees are nothing but a compilation of all things brutish and grotesque. So, who are u convincing anyways here? And Anubha, Aadil has rightly described u as a dumb hindu. Zakir Naik has never accepted vedas as the word of God, go through his videos once again. His exact words are, “They may be, but I am not sure.” Please crosscheck once more. And he doing noble for humanity, now u shock me. In what ways, if u could elaborate? He is hellbent on proving that islam is the only way to salvation for the whole of humanity, and he is very cunningly silent on the voices of dissent that have come to fore in the form of Agniveer and FaithFreedom.

      • dharmayoddha says

        @adil

        Quote,”And wait some times, time is come when we muslims again overtake you and India becoming Islam Alahamdulillah. Than you will knowing what is veda and what is quran.” Unquote

        Well,,,, well,,, well,,,, now you showed your REAL intention. Then why do yu scream blue murder when we retaliate against muslims in kashmir or gujarat or mumbai? Tell me why shouldnt we hate you and fight back?

        You conna take over INDIA?? A NUCLEAR SUPERPOWER. Oh my god, oh my false god allah, I am laughing my ass out. This is not 16th century, this is 21st century, we are united, we dont believe in turning the other cheek, and we hindus can fight back. Try us coward. HAHAHAHAHA

  88. Steve says

    By STEVE, on July 22nd, 2010

    Agniveer’s website is full of hatred and depicts his evil motives of spreading hate. He is brain-washed by day dreaming of 16108 wives as his God Krishna had ( one can visit the article on this topic here http://truthofhinduism.com/general/sexy-historical-stories-of-krishna/ ). Indeed when one reads his articles , any person who has been visiting anti-islamics websites would forthwith come to know that agniveer imitates from those sites, than makes up his own articles & paste them at his website. He of himself can do nothing, he is arrogant, chesty & full of himself.

    When I visited his article The Quran and the Shape of the Earth, he of himself has written nothing there. There is just a link to a article written by a christian missionary Sam Shamoun. So basically Sam is a christian who believes in the bible. Now one may observe that agniveer has several articles against Christianity, if agniveer is against christianity so much than why is he relying on articles written by christians. Those same missionaries have also written articles on women in Hinduism , will agniveer also consent on these articles. Probably no , than why Agniveer is playing double standards here.

    Agniveer has no basic knowledge of Islam and it’s history, he simply learns the basic of Islam from those people who are Islamophobic by Nature. They indeed will write mendacious & untrue things.

    I came across one more article on agniveer which has a photo of a muslim women in burqa who is hanged. I searched the anti-islamic websites, the same photo with same idea of the artilcle was present on a anti-islamic website. Agniveer simply read it and changed the sentences , & wrote a article claiming to be his own. This simply shows his foolishness & idioticness, he can never learn.

    When you will visit these articles : Does the Quran mention the speed of light, Samples of Quranic (koran) Contradictions and Flaws by Syed Kamran Mirza & Refuting Zakir Naik’s claim of Science in Quran you will notice the same foolishness of agniveer. These all articles are written by Christians whom agniveer thinks are authentic & reliable if written against Islam. But if same authors will write against Hinduism, they are wrong & arrogant in the eyes of agniveer. He is posting articles of christians to whom he repudiates, and does not believe in their faith.

    In simple words this is called stupidity & double standards, Agniveer can traverse to any limit to accomplish & execute his evil & dirty motives of spreading hate & detest. He is ignorant in Islamic knowledge who just wants a name on the internet.

  89. Sunny Chawla says

    I just had a look on the verses of Vedas which Zakir Naik told and the translations by Griffith …
    I found that each and every word Zakir Naik told was from the Griffith’s translation…
    So, he is trying to show Islam as superior…It isn’t possible that he doesn’t know the history of India, so he may be thinking that those are the correct translations…
    Griffith’s translations are totally fake…So basically what he does is, pick up those translations from the fake Vedas and convert Hindus to Islam as many as possible…and the fools go and sit there and clap on whatever he says…!!!!

  90. Steve says

    Narayana Guru challenged Brahmins & launched Kerala social revolution
    DR.M.S. JAYAPRAKASH, PROF. OF HISTORY, GURUVIHAR, PUNNATHALA, KOLLAM DT. – 691 012
    Revolution begins when a set of people who are socially, politically and economically oppressed and exploited get themselves enlightened for their own emancipation. Such a movement should be able to change the existing social order and create a new world. Fundamental social changes always come from the decision of the oppressed. Such a change came from Kerala under the leadership of Ezhavas. The Ezhavas along with other communities shared the same cultural identity until the emergence of Brahminism around the 8th century AD. This was facilitated by Budhism that prevailed in Kerala for about 1,200 years. The extermination of Budhism by the Brahmins under the leadership of Adi Sankara ushered in a new era of tyrannical rule and Kerala became a “lunatic asylum” (as called by Vivekananda). The historical background of the Brahminical revival under Sankara’s leadership was that of inhuman cultural torture of the Budhists. In Sudraka’s Mrichakhadiva, we get the description of treating the Budhists as bullocks by passing a nose string through their noses and yoking them to the cart. The Keralopathi documents the extermination of Budhists by Sankara. Vivekananda says:
    “And such was the heart of Sankara that he burnt to death lots of Budhist monks by defeating them in argument. What can you call such an action on Sankara’s part except fanaticism?”
    NAIRS AS BRAHMIN STOOGES
    The story of Parasuram’s axe and Sankara’s Digvijaya were the root cause of the extirpation of Budhism from Kerala. Those kings and their associates who identified themselves with the Brahmins became Kshatriyas and Nairs. Those who refused became outcasts. Among these groups Ezhavas held a unique position. Unlike the other outcastes, they were a land-holding group and they held the highest social status among the outcastes. Historically, the Ezhavas held to the Budhist traditions such as learning Sanskrit, practising Ayur Vidya medicine, taking tolerant attitude towards other ethnic groups, and rational thinking. The establishment of Brahminism brought structural changes in the economic system, mainly affecting land tenure and management of temples. The land was divided into Brahmaswams and Dewaswams and thus brought under the Brahmin-Nair ownership. The Ezhavas were the worst affected as their chief occupation was farming. They were largely left to tend the coconuts on the land, and even then, a large number of them became tenants of the upper castes. When access to land became more difficult, some Ezhavas turned to toddy-tapping and handicrafts for survival. The position of the Ezhavas as a deprived class, their Budhist heritage, their numerical strength and their position between the upper and lower stratas of the society made them the vanguards of social revolution under Sree Narayana Guru, the revolutionary saint.
    The politics of the revolution envisaged by the Guru was unique and significant. While the spiritual leadership of Sankara was based on anti-human thoughts, Narayana Guru invoked his own spiritual philosophy to counter it. Sankara wanted to encourage and enforce Brahmin hegemony purely on caste-based exploitation of the masses, which Narayana Guru with his silent revolutionary methods fought and succeeded.
    The Guru used spirituality to fight spirituality.
    SEX LITERATURE
    The part played by the medieval feudal literary works to streamline obeisance to Brahminism was decisive. The duty of literature to society was to carry out this objective and nothing else. Ezhuthachan’s Adhyatma Ramayanam, Cherussery’s Krishnagadha and the sensual literature of scholars like the Venmony poets are examples in this respect. Whereas what we see in Narayana Guru’s literary works is just the opposite of the above feudal literature.
    In fact, progressive movements in Malayalam literature originated from Narayana Guru which also reflected in poet Kumaran Asan’s clear-cut admonitions of the society.
    The Guru’s social revolution includes literature to counter literature just like spirituality to fight spirituality.
    S.N.D.P. YOGAM
    The medieval feudal society in Kerala was caste centered. Human beings were divided into upper castes and lower castes and they were ruled on the basis of religious belief and submission to the Brahmins. Elementary human rights were denied to the lower caste people. Such was the politics of the Brahminical social order of the day. It was to fight this political tyranny that the Guru advocated the downtrodden masses to be free through education and be strong through organisation. This was achieved through the establishment of the SNDP Yogam (Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam). The historic social reform movements and the political agitations led by the Yogam paved the way for a new political order which enabled the depressed classes to share power with the ruling class.
    Ezhava leaders like Dr. Palpu, Kumaran Asan, T.K. Madhavan, C. Kesavan, Sahodharan Ayyappan, C.V. Kunjuraman, and the leaders of other communities like Ayyankali and Pandit Karuppan were the stalwarts of these political agitations.
    The liberation movement of Narayana Guru started in the year 1888 at Aruvippuram, near Thiruvananthapupram, with the revolutionary act of consecrating a Sivalingam (the phallus). A non-Brahmin, a so-called Untouchable, consecrating the Sivalingam was a bold revolutionary deed. This premeditated challenge to the Brahmin privilege produced far-reaching consequences. Till then, the Brahmin priests were claimed to be direct representatives of gods on earth.
    DESTROY BRAHMIN HEGEMONY
    He built several temples and caused many existing ones to be remodelled. In one temple, a lighted lamp was installed. In another, the mirror was the idol. All his idol installations were against the Brahminical rules and vedic rituals. Being an Advaitavadi, his idol installations were a bold step to break the idols. In other words, the icons he installed made him an iconoclast. No doubt he destroyed the icons of many an old belief and rotten tradition.
    The Guru correctly understood that the Brahmin hegemony should be destroyed along with the caste system and then only could the actual revolution be realised in the Indian context. He believed that the caste system was pure human rights violation. Basic amenities like food, clothes, housing, and education were all denied to a vast majority of the masses on account of caste inhibitions. Even decent words of the language were not allowed to be pronounced by the low caste people. He also realised that the caste rules had a theoretical base sanctioned by Hindu “holy scriptures”. Hence his attacks on the caste system aimed at two things. (1) On the one hand, his aim was to blow up the theoretical basis of the caste system, and on the other (2) to organise a people’s war against the existing socio-political order.
    DANGER SIGNALS TO HINDUS
    The first he accomplished through his literary works and the consecration of the idol, and the second through education and enlightenment. The Guru’s famous dictum, “Ask not, say not, think not of caste” was a direct ultimatum to the custodians of casteism. The declaration as well as his message, “One caste, one religion and one god for man”, were danger signals for the Hindu orthodoxy and the Brahminical Social Order. Thus he denounced the theory of the caste system heralded by the Bhaghavad Gita and propounded by Sankara.
    He advised the people to build educational institutions adjacent to the temples. It is significant to note that in due course, he discouraged the construction of more and more temples and the consecration of idols.
    To him temples and idols were tools for bringing together the down-trodden masses, leading them to the path of liberation. He even went to the extent of asking, “What is the use of these temples which are filled with darkness and the foul smell of bats?” Such was the rational thinking he discharged and propagated through his disciples. As a great humanist, he proclaimed”. “To help neighbourhood to thrive, the wise man strives hard”. Such messages enlightened the masses and made them strive for bettering themselves.
    BLEND OF SPLIRITUALISM & MATERIALISM
    Not only literacy and enlightenement but agriculture, commerce, industrial training, science and technology, were on the agenda of the Guru’s scheme of education. He insisted on people to reorganise the traditional trade and commerce on a scientific basis. He preached economic discipline and warned against wasteful expenditure. Thus we see in the Guru a Sanyasin tradition based on a harmonious blending of spiritualism with enlightened materialism, a coexistence of Dharma of the Orient with the science and humanism of the Occident.
    The crux of his philosophy was the evolvement of the social potency of the self. Non-dualism (Advaita) conceives of the ultimate identification of the Jeevatma with the Paramatma. The Guru also accepted Advaita but he bestowed more thought on the Atma or self. Its full-blown efflorescence admits of two vital possibilities. One is the perfection of the individual self. The other is the impact this perfection is capable of causing in others, in the society at large. This is, in short, the social potency of the self. In other words, the social implication of an individual’s being and becoming. In Hinduism, under the Brahminical Social Order, a calculated attempt was made to keep spiritual and material goals apart. To the priestly class, it was a lucrative source of economic exploitation.
    The Guru bridged this gap. By holding together the twin capabilities of the self, he proved the complementary nature of man’s individual and social urges. This philosophy of the Guru may be termed Atmadarsanam. The Guru’s famous philosophical poem, “Atmopadesa Satakam” (one hundred verses of self-instruction), clearly elucidates his Atmadarsnam. Another poem, Darsanamala (garland of vision), covers the same aspect from a different angle. The two together form his philosophic edifice.
    PULAYAS PRODUCED AYYANKALI
    The revolutionary spirit instilled by the Guru, in the first instance electrified the Ezhava community, the community which produced the great Guru. Gradually, it attracted other communities and brought about a total revolution. Following his footsteps, every community started purging the foul customs and practices. When the spark kindled fell upon other communities, it produced reformers, revolutionaries and institutions.
    SILVER STAR
    In the Pulaya (Untouchable) community, it appeared in the form of Ayyankali and his Sadhujana Paripalana Yogam while in the Araya community it came into being through Pandit Karuppan and his Araya Vamsodharani Sabha. In the Nair community, through Mannath Padmanabham and his Nair Service Society, and in the Namboothiri community through V.T. Bhattathiripad and Yogakshema Sabha.
    Nowhere in India so vast and great a revolution has occurred. That is why Sri Narayana Guru remains as he silver star of the Indian revolution.
    That this revolutionary movement was confined within the bounds of Kerala on account of the special and peculiar needs of this State, made it almost an indoor affair.
    But judging from the impact it produced on the people, this great historical process has revolutionised the life of a large number of people than the combined forces of Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Prathana Samaj and other organsiations could effect on the people all over India.
    **********************************************
    THE GOD’S OWN COUNTRY MADE DEVIL’S DUNGEON
    Kerala, called the “god’s own country”, has become the devil’s dungeon despite the red-hot marxist rule. In our article, “How to liberate Kerala from upper caste imperialism?” (DV Feb.1, 2007 p.8), we said Kerala is today ruled by a micro-minority of three small communities — Brahmin, Nair and Syrian Christian — comprising a mere 17% of the state population.
    We also said these three communities were made rulers of the state by a counter-revolution led by a great Brahmin leader, E.M.S. Namboodiripad, against the powerful revolution led by Sree Narayana Guru.
    In this article, the author, Kerala’s top-most Ezhava (to which Sree Narayana belonged) intellectual speaks of the real revolution. In the next article he will write on the EMS counter-revolution — EDITOR.

    http://www.dalitvoice.org/Templates/march2007/articles.htm

    • Raja Krsnan says

      @Steve

      So much pains taken to cut and paste. wasted so much space. one thing is confirmed. you dont have any first hand knowledge of anything. at the most you can bark like a stray dog. that is what you are doing here by just copying and pasting. this amounts to SPAMMING.

      Its true Sree Narayana Guru challenged brahmins and paved way for the biggest social revolution India had ever seen. He was a practical man. His social revolution is no different from swami dayanand saraswati’s. Sree narayana guru was a staunch advaitavadi. if one reads his works one can understand what he stood for. I am yet to see from where this author got the notion that Sree Narayana Guru criticising Bhagavadgita on caste system. Mis-interpreting Sree Narayana Guru on all occassion is the favorite passtime for – Christians, Muslims, Communist parties, and Congress party. Even some of the so called historians (left leaning) have twisted facts about Sree Narayana Guru. All these are done deliberately to help the christian and muslims because SNDP Yogam as in the recent past has accused the christian and muslim community of fraudulently hijacking government schemes meant for poor hindus with active collaboration of communist and congress parties.

      Upper caste in kerala today do not consist of brahmins. the ruling combine in kerala is favourable to Muslims and Christians. Just take a look at the way these two communities have cornered most of the educational institutions through corrupt practices.

      Atmopadeshashatakam and darshanamala – both these works are in agreement with Vedic view.

      During his life time, Sree Narayana Guru worked for the upliftment of Hindus, especially the downtrodden ones from all communities – irrespective of caste. He never thought of disintegrating the Sanathana Dharma. He never thought it fit to convert the suffering masses to either christianity or islam as he was aware of the bigger rot present in these two religions.

      One of the most celebrated christian missionary of early 1900s, Rev. C.F.Andrews said he “saw god on earth for the first time”, when he met Sree Narayana Guru. He wrote this to his friend, Romain Rolland who was another great admirer of the Guru. What does CF Andrews’s statement point at? Jesus is fake, christianity is just a rotten, parasitic political, communal organization.

      Sree Naryana Guru and ChattambiSwamikal were instrumental in arresting the growth of christianity and islam in kerala. Hindus should be grateful to these two visionaries who had the guts to take on the orthodoxy within the community and lead the masses to truth, that is Sanatan Dharma. They took Vedas to the masses, just as the Rishis of the Vedas did.

      Ezhavas are numerically bigger, but due to their left leaning habit, them have shot in their own leg. Today many writers simply parrot Guru’s words without even knowing in what context he said those. They misinterpret because it gives them a few pennies more into their bank account.

      EMS has NO contribution to kerala other than creating COMMUNALISM. Yes, I said “communalism,” in what way communalism different from communism. by creating malappuram district exclusively for muslims, he laid the foundation for future jehadi and separatist movement in kerala. we are seeing the results of it today.

  91. Steve says

    Bhavabhuti in his Mahaviracharita gives a clear vivid evidence
    of purda. When Rama sees Parasurama coming towards him, he
    directs his consort Sita, `Dear one, he is our elder,
    therefore turn aside and veil yourself’ [ Mvir.Ch. Act II,
    p.71 ] [ 1200, p.70 ]
    The Kalibhana grant also tells us that the women of the royal
    household observed purda in Orissa [ 1200, p.70 ] [ In.H.Qu.
    XX (1944) p.242 ]
    Vachaspati tells us that women of good families did not come
    without a veil in public [ Vach. ] [ 1200, p.70 ].
    Some women were so much devoted to their husbands that they
    would not even look at the Sun regarding him as a parapurusa.
    If the servants were found seeing the faces of queens, they
    feared punishment. [ Sis. XII.20.17 ] [ 1200 p.70 ].
    The free mixing of men and women was considered bad in
    Sriharsha’s works [ Nais.Ch. XV.3 ] [ 1200, p.70 ].
    `Harsha’s [1099-1101 ] [Lohara dynasty] coins [depict] a half
    cross-legged goddess [and ] a veil appears on the head ‘ — [
    Coin.39]

    From “Veiling of Women in The Brahmanic Religion”
    by Thanabalu Kalimuthu, courtesy Prof. D.N. Jha

    Mukul Dube
    D-504 Purvasha Anand Lok .. Mayur Vihar 1

    • Proud to be A Kafir says

      @steve

      Good one steve. So, now when you had nothing to say on islam and as to why zakir copy-pasted from a qadiyani book, You are now copy-pasting from D. N Jha’s book. Thanks for exposing this communist pervert – D.N.Jha. This (commmunist) historian has done nothing but copy-pasted from western indologists work, be it the aryan invasion theory or regarding the idiotic translations to prove beef in the vedas..
      Good Steve! Thanks for exposing them

  92. Steve says

    WAQAS THIS IS FOR YOU:

    OH! YOU!! HINDU AWAKE!
    WRITTEN BY
    DR. CHATTERJEE
    MA., Ph.D. (U.S.A.)
    Printed by:
    MOTHERINDIA PUBLICATIONS
    203 M.G. ROAD, CALCUTTA
    Warning
    This book is not meant for decorating your bookshelf, but for circulation among
    others as fast as you can so
    that we can save our MOTHERINDIA
    REVISED EDITION
    REPRINTED IN 1987
    DEDICATION
    [N MEMORY OF THE LATE
    PERIYAR E.V. RAMASAMI
    FOREWORD
    To write a foreword to “Oh”! You Hindu!! Awake!!!, I accepted this offer with shock and
    surprise. Remember this is not an ordinary book. My blood started boiling as I read
    it for the first time. Anybody reading this book with an unbiased mind will certainly
    agree with the facts and figures given in this booklet. Since I didn’t believe this book
    as it is at first. I asked for the video cassettes and books mentioned at the end. To my
    great surprise, as a Hindu, I don’t know what to write further. Whenever anything is
    written on Hinduism, it is hidden from the public because of the power and media
    they have.
    The ruling master race of India has done unbelievable damages to India, which no
    sincere Indian will ever condone. How they position the young Indian minds with
    hatred through their powerful media? Finally who gains at the end? The only master
    race. How they divide India? To name a few: RSS and its allies with full fledged military
    type of training to murder another Indian who is the real son of the soil!
    Untouchability, apartheid and caste system to divide India into pieces! As a result they
    are in power since independence!
    In literacy, wealth, political power, control of the media and more, they have proved
    they are the master race (Now we know why they have kicked out the British!)
    What have their books and religions taught us? How many Gods have we? Who are
    our Gods? Can you believe Ramayana & Mahabaratha? What are they telling about
    our Godly men viz. Rama, Sita, Shiva Parvathi, Brahma, Ganesh & Krishna? Can one
    not see the pornography and incest in them? I would not read it to my mother,
    daughter or sister! Can you? What if a foreigner asks us what is Lingam and Yoni? How
    about Shankaracharya, Rajaneesh, Sai Baba, Maharishis, Dhirendra Brahmachari and
    Proof Chinmayananda? What are our Puranas and Veda telling? Our claims about
    Viboothi, sun worshiping, urine drinking and other blind faiths tell us how ignorant
    we are. How do we treat our Indian women? But we laugh at the treatment of women
    in other religions. What hypocrites we are? How dare a rich go inside the temple with
    special respect even if he is anillicit liquor dealer or smuggler while thousands of
    people are waiting in the queue?
    Also religion is a “man to God” and “man to man” relationship. But to reach God,
    treating the! Fellow human beings with love, justice and equal right is the best way.
    Most of the religions are preaching the same way.
    Unfortunately only Hinduism which was originated by the Brahmins is preaching that
    to reach God you must not love your fellow human being, you should not treat him
    with justice and you should not treat him with equal rights and humanity. On the
    other hand it teaches the high caste Brahmin how to enslave him, cheat him and fool
    him in the name of Hinduism. With this technique only today 2% Brahmins are ruling
    89% of India’s population.
    Do you think the master race will change itself? Impossible. Why? Because they will
    break into pieces if YOU know the real truth! You and I cannot change our
    MOTHERLAND overnight But let us do something that we can.
    -DR. GUPTASRIVATSA, M.A., Ph.D. (LONDON’)
    ATTENTION:
    All Arguments have been supported with full proof for which we have listed the
    names of the books their Publishers and Addresses have been given at the end.
    We appreciate your valuable criticism and suggestion to the news media for our
    revised editions.
    OPEN GURANTEE
    There is no copyright for this Publication, it can be Translated, Photocopied,
    Republished, Reprinted and sold without Prior Permission.
    TO YOU!
    If you are a Hindu, judge yourself and circulate the contents if they are found true.
    I you are a Christian or Muslim or lain or Sikh, Circulate this material as much as you
    can.
    As you are a true citizen of India, If you fail in your duty, one day your children and
    grandchildren will suffer because of your failure to correct these corrupt practices.
    THE GREAT ENGLISH PHILOSOPHER EDMUND BURKE SAID:
    “SILENT SPECTATORS ARE DANGEROUS”
    SAVE OUR MOHTERINDIA
    We love India our Homeland and have no hatred against any one. We want to be
    friendly with every one. As and Indian we want to help and save our MOTHIERINDIA
    from its troubles and to promote peaceful harmony among its peace loving citizens.
    Bearing that in mind this book has been written. All humanity is the creation of God
    and a God will not do any discrimination to his creations such as white, black, high,
    low, rich, poor and so on. God will be always with the right principles and naturally
    won’t support the aggressor over the weaker. Also God will always sympathize with
    the victim who has been punished for no reason. No man can reach God by harming,
    enslaving, fooling and cheating other fellow human in the name of religion. DO YOU
    AGREE TO TI-US? IF SO JUDGE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER THE FOLLOWING CLAIMS ARE
    TRUE OR FALSE?
    The purpose of this book is not to attack any religion. But we flied to expose the
    betrayal of truth and treachery to human dignity in the name of religion.
    There are many religions in India. Followers of each religion should respect other
    faiths. Regrettably, the higher caste Brahmins who sowed the seeds of hatred in the
    minds of Hindu against other faiths, have created a lot of problems disturbing the
    peaceful lives not only of Christians and Muslims, but of the own low-caste Hindu
    brethren.
    On the other hand, the Hindus, particularly the Brahmins who are behind communal
    disturbances in India affecting lower caste Hindus, Christians and Muslims are
    perhaps not aware of the fact that their Hindu brethren are all receiving kindness and
    hospitality in theChristian West and Muslim Middle East.
    The Brahmins and Rashtriya Swayam Sewak Sangh (R.S.S.) claim that 600 churches
    (including Mandaikkadu, Neelakkal) and 500 mosques (including Babri Masjid) were
    once Hindu temples is quite untrue.
    Brahmins/RSS criticize other religions without first having examined their own
    religion. Hence we are FORCED to write this booklet with the intention of bringing
    some facts about the Brahmins/R.S.S. to light.
    Let us analyze and see whether the Brahminism (Hinduism) satisfies the human nature
    and whether it is based on justice, love, humanity and equal rights.
    FUTURE SHOCK!
    My dear fellow citizen of India. I am sure when you complete this small booklet, you
    will get not only a great surprise but also SHOCK because of the unassailable
    evidences that we have gathered and given to you from the Brahmin originated Holy
    books.
    OPEN CHALLENGE
    WE INVITE BRAHMINS TO CHHALLENGE THE CONTENTS OF THIS BOOK IN PUBLIC OR IN
    THE NEWS PAPER OR ANY MEDIA THEY FEEL CONVENIENT. IF WE HAVE NOT HEARD
    ANY COMMENTS ON THIS BOOK. THEN THE READER WILL KNOW THE TRUTH.
    ARE YOU A HINDU?
    If you say “ YES “, then
    Have you ever really read the Vedas, Upanishads, Smritis and Puranas (Ramayana and
    Mahabharata)?
    Your answer most probably will be: “NO “.
    A recent Delhi University survey says not even ONE in a THOUSAND has ever read any
    of these books. If any Hindu ever reads them, he will never be an enemy to any other
    religion. Remember, this is a “FACT”.
    Hindu mentality is such, that it usually acceptsanything without questioning its
    authenticity. The reason is, for several centuries the higher caste Brahmin has been
    teaching that the lower caste Hindu has no right to question, any discrepancies in
    Hindu beliefs and mythology.
    Have you read today’s newspaper? If yes, you would have noticed that it was full of
    news about violence all over India.
    In one place the high caste (Brahmin) is holding the lower caste Hindu in bondage. In
    another place Hindu-Christian communal violence, in other places, Hindus and
    Muslims plan up on trivial matters, and Hindu and Sikhs are at each other’s throats.
    Have you ever thought why all these disturbances happen who is instigating this? The
    answer should be very simple, if you think and probe. The organizers are Done other
    than the so-called Aryans. Who are the Aryans? The self –proclaimed “master race” or
    earth to which Hitler belonged. Who are the Aryans in India?
    They are the high caste Brahmins / Rashtriya Swayam Sewak Sang (RSS) and their
    allies.
    THE HIGH CAST TERRORISTS OF INDIA ARE BRAHMINS
    Let us NOW reason together.
    CHAPTER II
    ARYANS - BRAHMINS - RAHSTRIYA SWAYAM SEWAK SANG (R S S)
    The MANU SMRITI (BIBLE OF HINDUISM) says:
    A) A Brahmin is born to fulfill Dharma. Whatever exists in the world is the property
    of the Brahmin. On account of the excellence of his origin, he is entitled to all.
    The Brahmin eats but his own food, wears but his own clothes. All mortals
    subsist through the benevolence of the Brahmin.
    B) Ignorant or learned, A Brahmin is still a great deity. To Brahmin, THE THREE
    WORLDS AND THE God’S OWE THEIR EXISTENCE.
    Dr. Ambedkar says the cardinal principles of Brahminism are six:
    1. Graded inequality between the different classes.
    2. Complete disarmament of Shudras and the untouchables.
    3. Complete prohibition of education of the Shudras and the untouchables.
    4. Ban on the Shudras and the untouchables occupying places of power and
    authority.
    5. Ban on the Shudras and the untouchables acquiring property.
    6. Complete subjugation and suppression of women.
    “Inequality is therefore the official doctrine of BRAHIMANIS” (IBID-204)
    Devadhinarn jagat sarvam
    Mantradhinam ta devata
    Tam Mantram Brahmandhinam
    Brahmana nam devata
    Meaning:
    The Universe is under the power of Gods.
    The Gods are under the power of the mantras.
    The mantras are under the power of the Brahmins.
    Therefore the Brahmins are our Gods.
    Abbe J.A. Dubois’s, “Hindu Manners, Customs and Ceremonies”, Oxford. Third Edition
    1906, Page 139.
    Also Manu-VI1, 137:
    “Let the king after rising early in the morning worship Brahmans who are well
    versed in the three-fold sacred sciences and learned in policy and accept their
    advice”.
    Again Manu — XI, 85:
    “Brahman is the root of sacred law. By his origin alone he is a deity EVEN FOR
    THE GodS and his word is authoritative for men”.
    ARE THE BRAHMINS SONS OF INDIAN SOIL?
    No! They are invaders like the British and the Moghuls who entered India via Khyber
    Pass to plunder its riches.
    How clever are they when compared to the so - called low caste Hindus? They are
    cleverer than the Jews. Why? Because the Jews with all their brain and might have yet
    not settled. But the Brahmins who came from Central Asia are dividing and ruling
    India without anyone noticing them.
    The British have left India. But the higher caste Brahmin is still following the British
    policy of “divide and rule”, creating barriers of caste and creed. They have carved a
    niche for themselves in India. At whose cost? At the cost of the poor, half clothed
    starving lower caste Hindus.
    NOT ALL BRAHMINS ARE TO BE BLAMED. THERE WERE AND ARE EXCEPTIONS. SOME
    WERE AND ARE MAHATHMAS.
    But the vast majority of them are always bent upon instigating and dividing Indians
    and consequently bringing untold misery, hardship and suffering to the innocent and
    poor lower cast Hindus and others and thereby further economically downgrading
    them.
    E.g. Havell writes in his ARYAN RULE IN INDIA (Page: 148):
    Already in Asoka’s time the Brahmans had probably CAPTURED the whole machinery
    of the SANGHA us effectually as in modern times they have controlled the inner
    working of British Departmental machinery.
    These invaders branded the original sons of India as SHUDRA and ruling them in the
    name of their religion.
    BRANCHES OF FANATICS
    RA.SHTRIYA SWAYAM SEWAK SANGH (RS.S.)
    VISWA HINDU PARISHAD
    HINDU MUNNANI
    A.RYA SAMAJ
    SIVA SENA
    BHARATIYA JAINATA PARISHAD
    PROVINCIAL ARMED CONSTABULARY (PAC)
    This is one of the RSS Militant Police working under the banner of Indian Police Force
    made of only high caste Hindus. So far not even a single non -Hindu member has
    been recruited to this group which is getting a high pay (more than other police
    forces) and facilities fromthe Government of India.
    Mr. Khushwant Singh has the following to say in “HINDUSTAN TIMES” on this subject:
    “it is no longer any secret that the loss of life in both Delhi and Meerut was
    predominantly Muslim and the majority of victims were killed by bullets, fired by the
    police and the Provincial Armed constabulary. Our Government controlled media tried
    to camouflage this ugly truth.”
    Dr. Subramaniam Swamy, General Secretary Lok Dal (A) also conveyed the same view
    and went on fasting demanding a Central Inequity of the “STATE — SPONSORED
    GENOCIDE’, of Muslims of Hashimpura in Meerut May last. Dr. Swamy says that the
    innocent people of Maliana village have ruthlessly gunned down. One finds himself
    unable to draw a line of distinction between the British India and Independent India.
    The onslaught that took place in Maliana is no less than the massacre of Jallian-wala
    Bagh. The brutality of PAC is no less than the brutality of General 0. Dyre. The
    incidents which are beyond imagination in democratic countryhave resulted into bare
    facts.
    (Our condolences to the families of unfortunate victims. Chatterjee).
    LEADERS OF FANATIC GROUPS
    PALRAJ MATHOKKER
    BAL THACKERAY
    A.B. VAJPAYEE
    RAMNATH GOYANGA
    BALA SHAIB DEVARAS
    L.K. ADVANI
    PROF. BALRAJ MADHOK
    MANIAN - EDITOR IDAYAM
    R. M. VEERAPAN - EX TAMILNADU MINISTER
    VARI7YAR - VISHWA HINDU PARISHAI)
    RAMA GOPALAN
    THARMALINGA NADAR
    CHO RAMASAMY
    BRAHMIN MEANS ONE WHO DIVIDES & RULES!
    BRAHMIN - CASTE SYSTEM & UNTOUCHABILITY
    Gita preaches (IV —39-40) Karma theory. Krishna tells us in the Gita that he is the
    author of the caste system (Gita 4-13, 10-36, 41). The Upanishads have also
    sanctioned the caste system those who are of pleasant conduct here - the prospect is,
    indeed, they will enter a pleasant womb, either the womb of a Brahmin, or the womb
    of a Ksahtriya, or the womb of a Vaishya. But those who are of stinking conduct herethe
    prospect is indeed, that they will enter a stinking womb, either the womb of a dog
    or the womb of a swine or the womb of an outcaste (Shudra)”. (Chandogya
    Upanishad —5-10-7).
    These Brahmins have created untouchability among Indians so that they can easily
    divide and rule over India and they have succeeded in it.
    “CASTE INSULTS” HARD TO PUNISH!
    Times of India says (30-8-87) that the commission on scheduled castes and tribes, in
    its sixth report placed before Parliament has pointed out that the home ministry
    objective of July 1978 to remove UNTOUCHABILITY in five years has remained
    “illusive”. It continues that the most of the cases are discharged because of failure to
    relate “ insults” or “ attempts to insult” to untouchability. Because of the mandatory
    provision of imprisonment of at least one month if the office is established, even the
    trial court appear to hesitate in pronouncing anyone guilty and so on.
    WHAT IS THE DUTY OF THE SHUDRA?
    The Gita (18-44) says : “Service is the duty of Shudra”
    The laws of the Maanu (1-91) say “The Lord Prescribed the Shudra, to serve meekly
    ever these three (other) castes”. Also The King himself must order the Shudra to serve
    the twice born castes (Brahmin) (Manu8l 0).
    To server Brahmins is the highest duty’ of the Shudra.
    There cannot be a greater anti - socialist philosophy than Brahminism.
    If the vast majority of Shudras and particularly the untouchables today appear lifeless,
    spiritless, hopeless and thoroughly emasculated, it is because of this Brahmin law.
    To get a strong foothold in India, the Brahmin divided the sons of India into different
    castes and creeds A Brahmin is huge monster who devours the lower caste Hindu.
    How bad is this system?
    According to a recent government survey there are more than 2,000 castes in India. Is
    it not shameful? It means each caste can claim superiority over the other, a man from
    one caste will not marry a girl of another cast, and no two castes congregate together
    ……….. and so on.
    How will the people of India unify when this inhuman unfair and unequal caste system
    prevails? India is a unique mode in the world when it comes to racial discrimination.
    The death toll in caste war and violence is much higher their in Hindu- Christian,
    Hindu -Muslim communal violences.
    The low caste welfare Minister Mrs. Rajendra Kumar Bajbai read out a report during a
    parliament session on 7-11-86 as follows:
    From Jan 1986 till June 1986:
    Murder of low caste people by High caste Hindu 337
    Raping of law caste Hindu women 511
    Recorded atrocities to the low caste by the high caste Hindu 9347
    BONDED LABOR
    Brahminism and Vedas have paid the ways for Bonded Labor System in India, which is
    the creation of caste system. Even after 40 years of independence, still we couldn’t
    gave the low caste Shudras from this bondange devil.
    The Time of India reported on 10th May 1987 that Swami Agnivesh, President of the
    Bonded Labor Liberation Front, said that more than 20,000 people mostly Harijans
    and Advicasis were still being exploited and were leading the life of slaves in West
    Chamaran and Gopalganj districts of North Bihar which be proved to the Government
    with unassailable evidence.
    Why do the high caste Brahmins instigate and provoke the innocent Hindus (other
    castes) to direct enmity and violence against peace loving Christians and Muslims? To
    keep themselves in power and rule over the majority of Hindus who belong the
    Shudra (the so called) low castes. The evil consequences of this wicked design are
    then dumped at the doors of other minorities likes Christians and Muslims and Sikhs.
    Who made the Brahmin the high caste? The Puranas and Vedas say that the Brahmins
    were created by Brahma from big head and therefore they have the right to belong to
    that group. To they are people of high caste. Well, it sounds very logical convincing
    and acceptable but, who wrote the Puranas and Vedas? There any proof or
    authenticity as to their Origin? Or did it come from high above? It would be very
    interesting if you take little trouble to find out who was in fact behind these books
    and what was their motive in writing them?
    We are living in the 20th century where science and technology has advanced
    unprecedently. However, in some parts of India, even today a low caste Hindu cannot
    pass on a street from the end to the other end without first having his chappals
    removed and placed on his head.
    Hotels and other eating places maintain separate cuttlery for low caste Hindus.
    The first Indian Governor General and Ex- Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu Mr.
    Rajagopalchari alias Rajaji (Brahmin) advocated that people should pass down through
    generations the professions of their fathers and forefathers in order to reduce
    unemployment. This suggestion was highly praised by many newspapers owned by
    Brahmins / RSS. What is the reasoning behind this advocacy? Think’ Supposing your
    father was a barber or a cobbler you will be required to carry out the same profession.
    Of course, the self proclaimed, high caste Brahmin with his blue blood will always
    come out on the top even if he is unfit to be a sweeper.
    In his book “History of Tamils”, Prof. P.T. Srinivasa lyenger explains Vedas in more
    detail. Accordingly the High caste Brahmins are supposed to go nearer to the God
    statue and can be a priest. If a Shatria (slightly lower caste than Brahmins) goes
    nearer to the statue of any God, it is a bad omen to the status and the remedies are
    as follows:
    Brahmin (High caste).. You can do anything.
    Remedies
    Shatria .... 7 pots of water to clean the statue.
    Vysia .... 24 pots of water + Shanti Homam to be conducted
    Sutra the lowest caste 108 pots of water + Maha Shanti Homam + FOOD TO
    BRAHMINS.
    WHO BUILT THE TEMPLES?
    Only SHUDRAS (Harijans) have built all the temples all over India. These Brahmins
    never carried a stone or brick on their shoulder or bead. Till he completes the
    constructions of the temple, a Shudras hard work is required. But once the work
    completed these Brahmins branded these workers as Shudras and after that they
    cannot even enter the temple and devised for the above mentioned remedies and
    punishments, if they go nearer to the God statues in the temp le.
    According to the Puranas, to become a King or Administrator one should be Brahmin.
    To become a Brahmin, one must take 4 births. But now many low caste people are
    Chief Minister without the 4 birth? This itself shows these Puranas are the “false
    books” created by the Brahmins to fool you.
    The following Chief Ministers were non- Brahmins and they ruled Tamil Nadu for a
    long period in an efficient way and proved the BRAHMIN originated VEDAS and
    PURANAS fairy tales:
    1. Mr. Kamraj
    2. Mr. C.N. Annadurai
    3. Dr. M. Karunanithi
    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE WESTERN AND MIDDLE EAST
    COUNTRIES HAVE TAKEN ALL THE THREE BIRTHS (ACCORDING TO PURANAS AND
    VEDAS) AND TODAY THEY ARE ALL TREATED AS HIGH CASTE GENERATION WHO ARE
    EQUIVALENT TO INDIA’S HIGH CASTE BRAHMINS?
    Which is true? PTO
    Achieve success in this world and hereafter a man has to take three births as per the
    claims of Vedas and Puranas
    The following respected leaders and reformists like Periar E.V. Ramasamy, Dr.
    Ambedkar, Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Lord Pending Ex Chief Ministers C.N. annadurai, Dr.
    Karunanithi and Mr. Shyam Sunder — Father of India’s Dalit Movement, our beloved
    Viduthalai K. Veeramani and respectable revolutionist fought against Brahminism and
    achieved tremendous victories. Because of their continuous efforts, Tamil Nadu today
    is a beacon for the caste of uplifting the low caste Hindus. Till Dr. M. Karunanidhi
    period, there was peace all over Tamil Nadu and he kept the Brahmin/RSS under
    control. Even today still people talk how he handled the T’Nagar Sudden Pillaiyar and
    put an end to the absurdity. This truth cannot be denied by anyone.
    When the late K. Kamaraj, the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu launched plans for the
    upliftment of the lower caste Hindus, the Brahmin owned media spread the rumour
    that KAMRAJ NADAR was helping only NADARS. If it was for Brahmins, they would
    have praised Kamaraj.
    Why is the so-called low caste Hindus financially destitute? Why is India economically
    backward? Because the Brahmins do not allow others to progress. They hold high
    offices in government, control the news media, educational system etc. How could
    others possibly rise up, come out of thecaste system bondage? Needless to say, with
    all the facilities at their disposal they could produce brilliant scientists, doctor’s etc.
    Assuredly even the low caste Hindus could do this if they were provided with the
    same facilities.
    How can India prosper when a comparatively small family of Brahmins who form only
    2% of Indian’s population enjoys a major share of the fruit? The Brahmins are to be
    blamed for the backwardness and stagnation of other castes and the country, which is
    governed by them.
    Other faiths do not have caste system. Periar and Dr. Ambedkar confirms this saying
    that for example Muslim religion Islam believes in absolute equality of human beings.
    No one is superior to another because of color, creed, caste, birth, position etc.
    ANY MAN WITH COMMON SENSE WILL AGREE WITH US IF HE REASONS OUT REMEMBER
    IT IS A CHALLENGE!
    THE ORIGINATORS OF INDIAN CASTE SYSTEM ARE BRAHMINS. PUNISHMENT TO LOW
    CASTES.
    The tongue of a Shudra, who spoke evil about a BRAHMIN, should be cut off. A Shudra
    who dared to assume a position of equality with the first three castes was to be
    flogged.
    (Apastainbha Dharma Sutra 111, 10-26)
    If a Shudra over heard a recitation of the Vedas molten tin was to be poured in to his
    ears; if be repented the Vedas his tongue should be cut and if he remembered Vedic
    hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces.
    MANU 167-272 says:
    If a Shudra over-heard a recitation of the Vedas motten tin was to be poured in to his
    ears; Again MANU 167-272 says:
    Let the king never slay a Brahman though he may have committed all possible crimes.
    With all reference to Vedas and Puranas it wouId be appropriate to question how fair
    the system is, of administering justice Well according to these Holy Books if a
    Brahman commits a sin he is forgiven, but onthe contrary if a low caste Hindu
    commits a sin, he has to feed twenty Brahmins in order to expiate or erase his sin.
    Would you call this fair and just system of justice?
    Oh! My brethren! India was once a great nation of Hindus. Why is it now
    disintegrating? Why are Hindus turning to other beliefs for relief and solace? Why are
    they running away from Hinduism? This is all due to bias and spiritual intimidation
    and threats by the Brahmins, and of late by the RSS. People of other India differ with
    the Hindus only in faith. They are otherwise similar in all other aspects such as color,
    language, culture etc. They were originally Hindus so they are Intact our brothers. But
    why did they accept a different faith? The Brahmins because they could not further
    tolerate the spiritual torture administer it. Recently, about 50,000 Harijans
    (untouchables because they were created from Brahma’s feet) embraced other faiths.
    These people would have concluded to adopt these faiths in order to gain freedom for
    good from the menace of caste system.
    AMBEDKAR on CONVERSION
    In his book “WHY CONVERSION?” Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar has shown that the real
    struggle is between high caste Hindus and the Untouchables. One class against
    another is doing this injustice. The high caste’s anger against the untouchables (low
    caste) is very simple. Your behavior on par with them INSULTS them. The
    untouchability is not a short or temporary feature, it is a permanent one. to free
    yourself you must establish close relations with some other society,or join some other
    religion. But until then you cannot get the strength from outside. This clearly means
    you must leave your represent religion and assimilate yourselves with some other
    society. If you have to get ride of this shameful condition, if you have to cleanse this
    fill and make use of this precious life, there is only one way and that is to throw off
    the shackles of Hindu religion and the Hindu society in which you are bound. For
    annihilating castes and untouchability from among the untouchables. CHANGE of the
    religion is the only antidote.
    Also Dr. Ambedkar continues that to call onself a Muslim, a Christian, a Buddhist or a
    Sikh is not merely a change of religion but also a change of name... Acongential idiot
    alone will say that one has to adhere to one’s religion because it is that of our
    ancestors. No same man will accept such a position. The Hindu society does not give
    equality of treatment. Obviously, the social equality is easily achieved by conversion.
    If this is true the social equality is easily achieved by conversion. If this is true then
    why should you not adopt this simple path of salvation which leads you ultimately to
    equality. After giving dept thought to the problem, everybody will have to admit that
    conversion is necessary to theUntouchables as self-government is to India.
    Finally Dr. Ambedkar concludes conversion is the only way to enternal bliss. Nobody
    should hesitate even if political rights are required to be sacrificed for this purpose.
    Conversion brings no harm to the political safeguards. If you become Muslims you
    will get the political rights as Muslims. If you become Christians, you will get the
    political rights as Christians, if you become Sikhs, you will have your political
    safeguards as Sikhs. In short, our politicalrights will accompany us. Even after 20% of
    India’s population changed into other religions within a short period of time, these
    Brahmins have not yet changed themselves. I tell you all very specifically, religion is
    for man and man is not for religion. To get human treatment, convert yourselves.
    CONVERT for getting organized.
    CONVERT for becoming strong
    CONVERT for securing equality
    CONVERT for getting liberty
    CONVERT so that your domestic life may be happy.
    I consider him as LEADER who without fear or favor tells the people what is good and
    what is bad for them. It is my duty to tell you, what is good for you, even if you don’t
    like it. I must do my duty. And now I have done it.
    It is now for you to decide and discharge your responsibility.
    (Courtesy : LOKRAJYA)
    RESULTS after CONVERSION
    Just look at the people after conversion. Christians improved their educational, social
    and economic position very much. Whenever the Brahmin media criticizes the Pope,
    Church and their Institutions, the Christians are getting more and more stronger than
    the evil Community.
    Muslims also have improved their social, economic arid educational standard. If they
    changed the religion for GULF MONEY, they could have simply returned to their
    original UNTOUCHABLE category. Can you quote just one evidence for that. It is a
    challenge. I recently visited Tamilnadu all the way from Calcutta to just see a recent
    mass conversion and to my great surprise these new converts are doctors, advocates,
    engineers and most of them are income tax payers. When the Government and its
    official branded these new coverts (educated and rich) have embraced another
    religion just for the Gulf money, this false claim and lies increased their faith with
    their new religion doubled. Though they were able to get their educational and
    economic freedom because of the previously mentioned leaders and reformists, now
    only they got the real freedom from the Brahmin slavery and domination. To day they
    get rights equal to Brahmins. The only secret of their success is CONVERSION.
    (The author was questioned by the Government appointed RSS / Brahmin Secret
    Service Agentspermanently posted in that area inquiring me, who are you? Why
    should you came here all the way from Calcutta, how long you are working in South
    India, do you have property in Tamilnadu and so on. Really they are the very smart
    people.)
    A SMART AMD SELF-RESPECTING CONVERT!
    Recently, a highly intellectual person from the (so-called) low caste Hindu extract
    embraced another religion. When he was urged by his family and Brahmin friends to
    revert to Hinduism, this gentleman readily agreed to come back to thefold of
    Hinduism on the condition that he be accepted as a Brahmin. This offer would have
    been naturally rejected since a low caste Hindu, according to Puranas and Vedas, can
    never become a Brahmin unless he goes through the process of birth and rebirth
    thrice. It is because of this discrimination by Brahmins that educated and uneducated
    Hindus embrace either other religions where it is very easy to be an equal among
    others on DAY ONE.
    A HINDU CANNOT BECOME A BRARMIN!
    Since low caste Hindu started realizing the Brahmin’s atrocities and embracing other
    religions, now Brahmin/RSS want them to come back to Hinduism. If they are sincere
    they must welcome them to Brahminism. But do you know the truth! A man can easily
    become Christian, Muslim or Hindu. But he cannot become a BRAHIMIN. According to
    Puranas and Vedas, he must take another three births to become a Brahmin.
    As a result of Brahmin/RSS domination’s and atrocities, today INDIA HAS MORE
    CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM population than any other Christian and Muslim countries of
    the world!
    Hindus now make up 80% of India’s population. The prospects of this percentage is
    diminishing very fast as the atrocities of high caste Brahmins increasing and because
    of this, other religions are prospering, but Hinduism is dying day by day.
    OUR CHALLENGE!
    Show me a Christian, Muslim, Sikh who embraced Hinduism. If they really want, which
    caste of Hinduism will they embrace. Of course he cannot become a BRAHMIN.
    According to Veda, he has to die for three more times. But the Brahmin will not object
    if he becomes another SHUDRA.
    A SELF-DEFEATING HINDU!
    Recently in a Bengal University there was a debate between moderate Hindu
    Professors and fanatic Hindus. The latter were prepared to give their lives to save
    Brahminism. Since the brain washing process in the past! (for many generations) by
    the Brahmins was an excellent one. It is not a wonder to see such people even today!
    Who can stop one who wanted to put sand over his head himself! One can fool
    another in the name of religion for some time but not for EVER ! The 20% of Hindus,
    who have embraced Christianity and Islam to day, is the evidence of it!
    BRAHMIN Vs APARTHIED
    In India 2% Brahmins are ruling 98% Indians whereas in South Africa 10% whites are
    ruling 90% Blacks.
    What right has India to talk about the apartheid policy of South Africa? When the
    worst kinds of apartheid policy is prevailing in India. As such we have no right to
    point fingers at others.
    ALL THESE YEARS WE HAVE BEEN BLIND AND NOW IT IS TIME FOR US TO SEE.
    The living lengend Mr. V.1. Rajashekar says:
    No where in the world the word “peace”, “non-violence”, “tolerance” and
    “brotherhood” are repeated so many times in the day as in India. But nowhere in the
    world so much blood is shed. Perhaps more people were killed in India after the
    “independence” than in the two world wars. We talk of “democracy”, equality before
    law but keep a third of India’s 800 million people as untouchables, unseables,
    unapproachables and unthinkables.
    0! My dear Hindu brethren, can’t you see the truth?
    BRAHMIN vs WORLD BODIES ON APARTHIED IN INDIA
    Violation of Human Rights is a fit case for International intervention and there cannot
    be a more gory case of persecution and torture in the whole world than that of India’s
    Untouchables. The Minority Rights Group (36, Caven St., London Wc2-5NG, U.K.) has
    brought out a valuable document, UNTOUCHABLES OF INDIA, Price Stg. Pounds 1.20),
    exposing the Hindu persecution of Untouchables in India. Also, the American
    Ambassador to United Nations, Mrs. Jeane Kirkpatrick had brought out this subject in
    INDIA ABROAD (Dec. 17, 1982) when raising the issue of Untouchables in India.
    Sumnatha Banerjee, a noted Hindu columnist writes in the Deccan Herald, Dec. 16,
    1982, “On almost all counts India has been violating the Covenant. The conservative
    figures cited by the Amnesty International in the annual report are quite revealing”.
    The former Indian Prime Ministers (all Brahmins, Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandi,
    Morarji Desai and A.P. Vajpeyee (Foreign Minister) have spoken on the International
    antiapartheid (1978-79) without bothering about what is happening in India since
    Independence. The Untouchables in Contemporary India (University of Arizona Press,
    Tucson, Arizona USA) have clearly mentioned the problems of Untouchables in India.
    The Washington post reported on its front page of Jan 3,1980 “Untouchables are still
    India’s outcastes and are still persecuted despite Indian reform effort”.
    ANSERS TO RACIAL PROBLEMS
    In his book the author says how this apartheid system should be handled. A FREE
    copy of this book can be had from P0 2439, DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA. THE
    BRAHMTNS/RSS CRITICISE THE BELIEFS OF THE CHRISTIANS AND THE MUSLIMS
    INSTEAD OF WORRIYING ABOUT THEIR OWN MYTHS.
    BRAHMIN1SM vs BUDDHISM
    In Ramayana (Ayodya Kandam— 100 Sarukkam — Page No. 374 — Translation by C.R.
    Srinivasa Iyer (Brahmin) says: A thief and BUDDHIST are same and there is no
    difference between them.
    You must note the trick of this above claim. When the name Buddhism is quoted in
    the Ramayana it means that Buddhism is older than Hinduism.
    C.V, VIDYA (Brahmin) writes in his EPIC INDIAPage 377:
    “Buddha is a thief, the Tathagata is a Nastik Athiest. A wise man who can help it
    should therefore not be inclined towards Nastika”.
    BRAHMANISM vs SIKHISM
    Do you ever think why sikhism started? Who were Sikhs? Christians or Muslims? No,
    they were Hindus once. If you read what the respectable Guru Nanak had written
    before, you would be surprised.
    Guru Nanak was keenly aware of the immorality ofcaste system; a system under which
    Brahmins gave themselves the most powerful and unchallengeable position at the
    cost of others and especially Shudras, who are condemned to lead a life below human
    dignity. He removed all the apartheid and atrocities that the Brahmin were doing from
    the Sikh society.
    If you go through in detail what Guru Nanak has written you will clearly know that this
    knowledgeable man tried to save the people of Punjab from the caste Brahmins. As a
    result today the Sikhs are forming 2% of India’s total population.
    This belligerent and hostile attitude towards the non-Hindu communities in India is
    not new. In the past this Vedic discipline has been relentlessly applied against even
    “Hindu” reformers who tried to challenge the holy ideology of Brahmin domination.
    The Buddhists were driven out. The Jams were forcibly assimilated. Untouchables and
    tribals confined to segregated quarters. The Sikhs went a ling way towards cultural
    assimilation, but when they demanded economic, political andcultural rights they
    were dubbed as outlaws.
    The Hindu political culture does not admit of socio-cultural heterogeneity, not to
    mention political diversity. If has always sought a coercive homogenization of cultures
    and other religions being not in a position to oblige to such a view have to bear the
    full brunt of a resurgent Cast fascis.
    CLAIMS OF SLKH LEADERS
    In a recent Golden temple congregation, the head priest justified their claim for a
    separate land saying that why should we all be ruled by a 2% community (Brahmin)
    when they are not at all the sons of India. He concluded saying that Guru Nanak freed
    us from Brahmins slavery and let us free ourselves from Brahmins rule. Is this claim
    true? You be the judge!
    DEVDASI (LEGALISED PROSTITUTION)
    Who created Devdasi and Jogins? The Brahmins. For whom? Certainly not for go-but
    on God’s behalf-for the high cast priests. Who are the priests? The BRAHMINS. Where
    so the Devadasi and Jogins come from? The low caste Hindus (Shudras).
    BARATHA NATY
    Another claim by the BRAHMINS is BARATHA NATYA. Because of Brahmins media this
    dance is very famous today. Once again Dr. Charles criticizes that no decent man will
    ever allow his daughter or wife to entertain others in the name of an ART!
    In the National Geographic Video program (The Explorer). Kalachetra’s Rukmini Devi
    admits that since the Baratha Natya was the only art of Devadasis to please their
    audience and admiral, still the claim that only PROSTITUTES are learning this dance
    couldn’t be changed. Also she admits that now only the Brahmins are trying to save
    this very old talented art. You might have seen plenty of the Baratha Natya’s posures
    in Hindu temples. May be like KARATE to Japanese. BARATHA NATY to a Brahmin,
    since it is the culture and way of the Aryan.
    KAMASUTRA
    Again Dr. Charles says that the only CLAIM the BRAHM1NISM can quote is the creation
    or KAMASUDRA (A “HOW TO DO? “BOOK). Even that is not practicable in daily life
    because of its poseurs are not at all possible to any human beings. Also to perform
    such an sexual act you require two more ASSISTANTS!
    SEXUAL ABUSE OF DALIT (LOW CASTE) GIRLS
    UNI-TNDIAN EXPRESS — MAY 29, 87 says that according to Indian Health
    Organization (IHO), the practice of dedicating innocent young girls as “DEVADASIS” to
    the Yellamma temple in Belgum district in Karnataka, continues despite the ban
    imposed by the State Government.
    There is no big surprise in the above claim. LORD KRISHNA is the first person who
    started these atrocities to the low caste milkmaid girls when he used to steal their
    saris and gazing at their naked bodies from the treetops!
    LITERACY
    Here is the aphorism of the Brahma-Sutras:
    “shravana, adhana, arthapratishedhat smriteh ca”
    Brahrna—Sutras 1.3.9.38
    Meaning:
    “The smrithi orders that Shudras must be prohibited from hearing, studying and
    understanding the Vedas”.
    In his book “The Sacred Books of the East” which is the translation of SHANKARA’S
    BRAJHMA-SUTRA-BHASHYA, Mr. George Thibaut (edited by F. Maz Muller and
    published by Motilal Bandarsidas, Delhi 1968) which says:
    “The Shudras tongue is to be slit if he pronounces it (VEDAS); his bodyis to be cut
    through if he preserves it and so on...”
    India is the only country in the world where Brahmins made educationtheir exclusive
    monopoly. And also imposed strict penalty on learning by low castes. The penalty on
    LEARNTNG included cutting the tongue and pouring molten lead into ears etc. Please
    read the MANSUMRITI for more details.
    Do you know the average Indian literacy rate? It is 30%
    But the Brahmins have 100%.
    Out of the total Indian doctors in the U.S.A. 67% are Brahmins. The Indian Government
    is spending millions of rupees to educate these selfish Brahmins who instead of
    serving the poor masses of India work in rich.
    On the other hand Brahmin professionals in the field of Engineering and Law exploit
    the people of India. Their representation in these fields is 53% and 57% respectively.
    In the fields of education, what percentage do their Teachers and Professors make up?
    It is more than 51%. Out of 2% of India’s population, how the BRAHMINS can dominate
    this much percentage of fortune! Do you think they have achieved this much success
    in a right and justified work? No it cannot be so. Look at the Yadhavas (Vanniars) and
    Sikhs! They are also representing 2% each of India’s population and their overall
    percentage is not even 3% of success.
    BRAHEMINS-PRESS
    Who has the major share of magazine/news papers published in India?
    Of course, the publishing houses are owned by the Brahmins/RSS.
    What is the size of their share? According to a recent survey, it is approximately 8%.
    The following are the well known Newspapers and periodicals, that are owned by the
    Brahmins, not to mention so many other which are financed by the Brahmins to blow
    their trumpets.
    Indian Express —93% employees are Brahmins
    Hindu — 97 % employees are Brahmins
    Times of India— 83% employ