There seems to be apparently differing views on what exactly is meant by Vedas. In this article, we shall attempt to authoritatively clear this confusion.

Now Vedic literature includes several texts:
a. Veda Mantra Samhitas – Rik, Yajuh, Sama, Atharva
b. Brahmans associated with each Mantra Samhita
c. Aranyaks
d. Upanishads (actually part of above)
e. Upavedas (each Mantra Samhita has an associated Upaveda)

In reality, only the Mantra Samhitas are the divine Vedas. Other texts like Brahmans, Aranyaks, Upanishads, Upavedas, 6 Darshan, Geeta, etc are texts written by sages. But they are human creation and not divine. So these should be accepted only to extent that they comply with Vedas (Mantra Samhitas) and understood in context of these.

Doubt: Even Brahmans are divine Vedas. Katyayana Rishi has stated so. Then why don’t you also accept Brahmans as part of Vedas?

1. Brahmans are also known as Itihas, Puran, Kalp, Gatha and Narashansi. They are explanations of Vedic mantras by Rishis. They are not divine creations but developed by great saints.

2. Apart from Katyayan Pratijna Parishishth of Shukla Yajurveda (which is not authored by Katyayana as per many scholars) no other text states that Brahmans are part of Vedas.

3. The claim that ‘Mantra and Brahman are together called Vedas’ is also found in Shraut Sutras of Krishna Yajurveda. But Krishna Yajurveda itself is mixture of Brahman and Mantras, are hence here this claim is relevant only for the specific text. In same manner as Dhatu means root of word in Panini Grammar, but metal in Material Science and body elements in Ayurveda. No such reference of Brahmans being Vedas is found in branches of Rigveda, Shukla Yajurveda and Samaveda.

4. Vedas contain no history, they being permanent knowledge of Ishwar. But Brahman texts contain history and description of historical persons.

5. All major texts of Vedic literature clearly proclaim that the Mantra Samhitas of Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda and Atharvaveda are divine Vedas.

For example,

Vedas:
Rig 10.90.3, Yaju 31.7, Atharva 19.6.13, Atharva 10.7.20, Yaju 35.5, Atharva 1.10.23, Rig 4.58.3, Yaju 17.91 (as explained by Nirukta 13.6), Atharva 15.6.9, Atharva 15.6.8, Atharva 11.7.24

Upanishads:
Brihadaranyak Upanishad 2.4.10, Chhandogya Upanishad, 7.1.2, Brihadaranyak 1.2.5, Mundak 1.1.5, Nrisinghapurvataapani, Chhandogya 7.7.1, Taittriya 1.1, Taittriya 2.3

Brahmans:
Shatpath Brahman 11.5.8, Gopath Purva 2.16, Gopath 1.1.29

Mahabharat:
Drona Parva 51.22, Shanti Parva 235.1, Vana Parva 187.14, Vana Parva 215.22, Sabha Parva 11.31,

Manu Smriti:
Manu Smriti 1.23,

Purans:
Padma 5.2.50, Harivansh, Visgnu Puran 1.22.82, Vishnu 5.1.36, Brahm Vaivart Prakriti 14.64

Misc:
Mahabhashya Pashpashanhik,  Kathak Samhita 40.7, Sayan in explanation of Atharva 19.9.12, Vrihadaranyavaartikasaar by Saayana (2.4), Sarvanukramanibhumika, Ramayan 3.28

etc. Even Shankaracharya states that “Chaturvidha Mantrajaatam” to conclude that 4 Mantra Samhitas alone are Vedas (explanation of Brihad 2.4.10 by Shankaracharya)

6. Even Brahmana texts do not claim that they are also Vedas.

7. Shatpath Brahman states that Vedas have 8.64 lakh alphabets. Had Brahmans been included, this would have been significantly higher.

8. Only Mantras have been preserved through Paatha Vidhis of Jata, Mala, Shukha, Rekha, Dhwaj, Danda, Ratha and Ghana. No such effort has been made to preserve the Brahman texts.

9. Swar Bhed and Maatras are used for Mantras only. Not for Brahmans.

10. Each Mantra has a specific Rishi, Devata, Chhanda and Swar, That is not so for Brahman texts.

11. Yajuh Pratishakhya states that one should say Om before Mantras and Atha before Brahman verses. Something similar is stated in Aitareya Brahman also.

12. Brahmans themselves detail the descriptions of people who wrote them. They elaborate on Mantras and even state at places while explaining meanings of mantrs that “Naatra Tirohitamivasti” – we have not elaborated those parts which are straightforward and have explained the complex parts.

Doubt: How can you say Purans are Brahmans. Purans refer to 18 Purans by Ved Vyasa

1. No, this is a misconception. These new Purans are of much recent origin. Puran refers to old.

2. Taittriya Aranyak 2.9 and Ashwalayan Grihyasutra 3.3.1 clearly state that Brahmans alone are called Kalpa, Gatha, Puran, Itihas or Narashansi.

3. Even Acharya Shankar states so while commenting on Brihadaranyak Upanishad 2.4.10

4. Same is view of Sayana in explanation of Taittriya Aranyak 8.21

5. Shatpath Brahman is much older than most other scriptures. It states in 13.4.3.13 that one should listen to Purans on ninth day of Ashwamedha Yajna. Had Purans referred to these new Purans like Brahmavaivart, what would Ram, Krishna etc had listened on ninth day? Brahmans were written generations before Veda Vyasa was born. And these new Purans are falsely attributed to Veda Vyasa. If one reads Brahmavaivart Puran etc in detail, he would clearly understand that it cannot be written by a yogi who wrote the commentary on Yoga Darshan.

Doubt: Even Vedas have history. See there is name of Jamadagni and Kashyap Rishis in Yajurveda 3.62. Many Vedic mantras talk of historical persons.

1. Do not be confused. Jamadagni and Kashyap do not refer to historical people. As per Shatpath, Jamadagni refers to Eyes and Kashyap refers to Prana or life force.

2. Similarly all names in Vedas refer to some specific attributes. Later people used them to keep their names. Just as Lal and Krishna in Mahabharat do not refer to Advani and Maya in Shankaracharya’s texts do not refer to Mayavati, same is case with Vedas.

Doubt: What about branches of Vedas. There are 1131 branches of Vedas. Most are lost today. How can we then claim that we have original Vedas

1. Branches of Vedas are not Vedas. They are explanations of Vedas. The Branches make changes in original mantras to simplify the meanings as per prevailing norms. Similarly many branches modify the sequence of mantras for specific yajnas or other purposes. Some branches mix Mantras and Brahmans also.

2. Four original Mantra Samhitas are Apaurusheya. Branches and Brahmans created by humans are correct only to extent they comply with Vedas. These are human creations.

3. Traditionally, original Mantra Samhitas have been preserved and only these have been commented upon by scholars.

Doubt: What about Upanishad, Upavedas, Geeta etc? Are they not divine?

Refer above. These are great works by great legends. But they are not parallel to Vedas which are divine. Had they been divine, Ishwar must have ensured that they are also preserved just like the 4 Vedas. So these should be interpreted in light of Vedas and those portions that contradict the Vedas should be rejected. After all, no one is superior to Ishwar.

This holds true for all texts in the world. All scriptures of our culture proclaim in one pitch that Vedas alone are ultimate truth. This should be the ultimate benchmark for us.

Doubt: But Vedas contain only rituals and worship of gods. Don’t we need other texts for philosophy and other practical applications as well?

1. This is a misconception propagated by those who have never even read the Vedas.

2. All great works of our culture are attributed to Vedas by their authors. They believe Vedas to be source of all true knowledge.

3. Vedas are source of all philosophical texts like Upanishads or Geeta etc. While other texts are useful to understand the Vedas and truth, there is nothing in them which is not already in Vedas. As we discussed earlier, Vedas are ultimate benchmarks, other texts are stairs to reach up to that. But we should be careful that no stair leads us away from the Vedas.

4. Vedas believe in One and Only One Ishwar who pervades everywhere. Vedas hardly have any rituals because they refer to knowledge which is timeless. Its a pity that misguided people have misrepresented Vedas to serve their own petty designs.

It is our utmost duty to rise above all prejudice, explore the Vedas and promote the true perspective of Vedas.

May the truth prevail!

This post is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/what-are-vedas-hi/

This post is also available in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/what-are-vedas-gu/

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[…] This translation in Gujarati is contributed by Ronak and Kruti. For original post, visit http://agniveer.com/what-are-vedas/ […]

Supriya
Abdu Rasul

@Supriya

Can you suggest me anymore website to understand Hindusim?

Supriya

Agniveer
West has embraced Sanatan Dharma in many ways. Read here
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/04/11/vedanta-science-self-discovery/

Jyothish Vijay
@Agniveer My name is Dr.Jyothish Vijay. I really like your efforts. But I can’t help giving a counter argument to one thing. Before state what that is, let me first tell u what i think your blog is for. I beleive its an effort to counter cetain Islamic scholars ridculing… Read more »
Jyothish Vijay
@Agniveer It would have been OK, if u just gave the clarifications on misinterpretations on Vedas….without downgrading the “other texts” See I am not really a “Hindu”….at best i am a agnostic Hindu. I read the BG….do not believe the BG is divine or that Lord Krishna was real or… Read more »
Jyothish Vijay
@Agniveer My name is Dr.Jyothish Vijay. I really like your efforts. But I can’t help giving a counter argument to one thing. Before state what that is, let me first tell u what i think your blog is for. I beleive its an effort to counter cetain Islamic scholars ridculing… Read more »
Sanatan Dharma
@Agniveer What are difference among Shruti, Samirities, Purans and Mahakvya like Ramayan and mahabharat. Why not Ramayan and Mahabharat called Purans? Please explain by giving example like “This is Shruti” (Vedic Guidence) and how smiriti Explains this particular shruti and How it takes form of Purans. What is meant of… Read more »
aryaveer
“OM” Dear friend , I m mechanical engineer . I am working on the project “science in Veda ” . m working on the flying technology in Veda .. but now I need a plate form to publish my work and need help to create that planes called Vimana again… Read more »
vasudevarao.
Agniveerji I have a doubt. You say Vedas are free from rituals. In that case is not Agnihotra a ritual?True Agnihotra conists of Stuthi, prathana and Upasana. But the element of igniting the fire, offering oblations with Swahaa etc do come under the category of rituals. And Agnihotra is also… Read more »
Consummascient
Let this struggle be in an Open form. Lets do something openly and publicly out of the internet also. Lets have a meeting and public get together to promote our views and Vedic knowledge to a layman. Let’s make them literate with Ved to eradicate darkness of untruth. Lets join… Read more »
Rama

So, Agniveer which which vedas of which which branches do you have access to ? and what commentary do you use ?

Vajra

Rama
I have all the four Vedas and thus access to them all 🙂

Whats your point?

Rama

This clearly shows you knowledge on availability of Sanskrit text of Vedas. I am seeking reply from Agniveer. Hope he understands my question.

Vajra

Rama
So you are a firm believer of “those Vedas” which are not available today 🙂

How does it matter if you believe or disbelieve in an unavailable text? 😉

Rama

OK! As you understand. This is what makes thing hopeless. People like you.

Vajra

Namaste Rama

Please visit http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/ and find all the Vedas.

Also http://agniveer.com/2697/why-vedas-cannot-be-changed/

Hope it will be hopeful !

Dhanyawad

Arjun Tuteja
Some of the modern & perhaps older spiritual teachers suggest that studying Vedanta is enough, because rest of Vedas contain only Karamkand etc. This discourages people from following the 3rd Principle of Arya Samaj. Do you have any article clarifying “Why Vedas and not just Vedanta”. If yes, please point… Read more »
Vajra
Namaste Arjun Ji Karmkand is many a times mistranslated as “rituals” which is totally illogical. How does Karma give the meaning of “ritual”? Is meditation not Karma? Is Swadhyay not Karma? Is putting efforts to achieve your goal not Karma? Giving knowledge, defending self, Dharma and nation, cultivation, business, services… Read more »
Raj

Have you accepted the policy of not publishing of the comments which even slightly contradict your views?

Agniveer

Kindly submit your comment again after refreshing your browser cache. Please let us know if you still don’t see the comment. We do not have system of manual moderation for the site.
Admin

mahadaya
Salama, I am following the religion of Abraham @ Abarama @ Ibrahim that is the religion that god in al quran commanded. The religion is ancient, the text is in ancient language and sacred ritual also ancient. I believe in the books sent through the prophets from different times as… Read more »
Vik
@mahadaya can u tell us the names of the revelations that were given to Noah and Abraham?? What proof do you have that Quran is not corrupted???? How about the aborogated verses????All these books can just be mere teachings of different views of people. Dont forget that all these books… Read more »
mahadaya
The quran is corrupted by putting signs and marks, as such the Muslims reading the quran not as the prophet reading it. Without the signs and marks, the word Islam and Muhammad does not exist. In the quran, it is stated that god sent the prophets to preach his religion… Read more »
Raj

Further you want some more you should visit-
http://www.hinduwisdom.info, specially for the pages related with casts and so called brahminism.

I think you must know that one of the guru of Shri Adi Shankarachrya was also a chandal.

Raj
Mr. Agniveer let me first praise you for your some brilliant and scholarly arguments in favor of Hinduness. This is really a great service to the dharma. Now let us come to the next issue, by whatever reason and arguments you have banned the ‘Raguraman’ , definetely it is not… Read more »
Agniveer
Namaste Raj ji, Thanks for your blessings. We concur with you that we need to focus on fighting fanatic forces by uniting together. However that unity has to be on basis on equality. And thus, rejection of birth-based caste system is a foremost criteria for unity for us. While I… Read more »
Sanjeev Verma

Agniveer,

I fully agree with you. We must expedite our drive against birth-based caste system.

Sanjeev

Raj
Mr. Agniveer let me first praise you for your some brilliant and scholarly arguments in favor of Hinduness. This is really a great service to the dharma. Now let us come to the next issue, by whatever reason and arguments you have banned the ‘Raguraman’ , definetely it is not… Read more »
abhijeet4288

Veda means knowledge of wisdom.

Ram

Dear Agni,
I have read that chanting of Vedic hymns does a lot of good to the universe. Does the sound of Vedas have special powers to bless one with favours – i.e. Dharmic.?
Is “Sandhya vandanam” a prescribed way of worship by the Vedas ?

Arya Musafir
We gave you the reason for not debating you. You only want to further your personal casteist agenda and harm overall unity. Casteism is one of those disgusting things we just cannot tolerate. Your messages are nothing but copy-paste word to word from works of Pt Kaluram Shastri. For general… Read more »
Akash Roy

Dada,
Sri Krishna is God. If u believe Upanishads, u have to believe Krishna(GOD). Gita isn’t a book, it is Upanishad. Git-upanishad.

agniveer
@Raguraman We request you to kindly stop wasting everyone’s time here. As we said, there is no way we can entertain those mindsets who are filled with casteist hatred and consider that Shudras/ women by birth have inferior rights. We have amply proven that there is no caste system in… Read more »
aryamusafir
@Ragu You will not refute Zakir because his arguments are too childish! Good, so when the Mujahideens will come to your house and ask you to convert to Islam otherwise get killed, just tell them the same and your problem will be solved! When any of the Mujahideen will try… Read more »
aryamusafir

@Ragu
When you accepted that Eeshvar has the ability to make you a fool, why should we take any of your comments seriously? Forget about your refutations. Cant God make our points correct and your refutations wrong? Cant Arya Samaj idiots be better than Baba Raguraman if God wills?

Arya
@Ragu 1. If dying is a sign of impotency, why not taking birth is also in the same category? Cant God die “divinely”? So at last you have got something which even God cant do! But it is contradicting your previous statement that God can do anything. 2. Ram in… Read more »
chandra

Agniveerji,

You said Rigved 10/59/6 opposes reincarnation.Can you explain how?.

chandra

I mean Avtars where God descends on to earth.

Agni
Namaste Could you provide the context where I mentioned so. But several mantras in vedas state that Ishwar is unchanging, unborn and devoid of body at all times. One of the most excellent and truly one of the most heart warming, touching mantra of vedas that I have come across… Read more »
Raguraman
@Agni 1. Your entire argument is strawman, for your understanding of Avatara of God is completely flawed. Avatara has no body, Shri Hari comes as He is in all His avataras like Shri Krishna etc. 2. As you argued, it is NOT necessary for Ishvara to take avataras to establish… Read more »
agniveer
Dear Raguraman, You are free to ignore this site and preach your dogmas elsewhere. We believe in Freedom of Expression and reserve this right for this site. The reasons why we do not consider you fit for any discussions is: a. Whatever lame arguments you are providing are simple copy-paste… Read more »
Sanjeev Verma

Very nice Agniveerji, I fully support you.

Sanjeev

S. Mishra

Very nice reply Agniveerji, These idiots understand these words only !!

ganya

Excellent reply Agniveerji…just keep it up…

Our enemies r external. Our existence is in danger so let be unite and fight the external aggression

aryavratast

A befitting reply, though as a body was born in a brahmin family, but for sure this by birth differentiation has to end at once. Veda is for all as The supreme is for all.Then what one does with that knowledge puts him/her in the varnas.

Raguraman
Dear Agni, Some of the references you have provided only disproves your claims… ====================================== “3. The claim that ‘Mantra and Brahman are together called Vedas’ is also found in Shraut Sutras of Krishna Yajurveda. But Krishna Yajurveda itself is mixture of Brahman and Mantras, are hence here this claim is… Read more »
Vishal

Namaste Agniveer ji. I love your website.

I wanted to ask you the meaning of the words Atharva Ved, Rig Ved, Sam Ved and Yajur Ved.

Thank you

Raguraman
Dear Agni, Some of the references you have provided only disproves your claims… ====================================== “3. The claim that ‘Mantra and Brahman are together called Vedas’ is also found in Shraut Sutras of Krishna Yajurveda. But Krishna Yajurveda itself is mixture of Brahman and Mantras, are hence here this claim is… Read more »
Rashmi
I have found vedic wisdom to be very logical scientific and experiential.You are not required to have a blind faith. I pasting an article by swami ramswarup on vedas and Hinduism, Hinduism and Vedas By webmaster – Posted on 17 January 2005 Printer-friendly version Hinduism is based on Vedas which… Read more »
Rashmi
Agniveer keep up with good job. I initially used to worship shivlinga. As providence has designed for me i picked up Astanga yoga and slowly – 2 i started to ponder thoughtfully about each and every thing. I agree with what agniveer, swami dayanand and all Yogis have said.Vedas are… Read more »
Haridas

RV 10.90.1

सहस्रशीर्षा पुरुषः सहस्राक्षः सहस्रपात |
सभूमिं विश्वतो वर्त्वात्यतिष्ठद दशाङगुलम ||

This verse is referring to the head of purusha(shirsha), His yes(saksa), his feet(pata)

This could be a form that is divine

Arya
@Haridas Brother, we would like to know your background before further conversation. It seems you deliberately picked some verses, which have been misunderstood the most and you dont have any knowledge of Sanskrit as well. You even dont know that eyes are "Aksh" and not Saksa! So for further discussion,… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
Haridas You must understand the connotation of this hymn. If you are are adamant on the literal meaning , you would be faced with many challenges. to prove my point ..sample this (from the very same hymn you are quoting ) :Rig Veda 10.90.6 यत पुरुषेण हविषा देवा यज्ञमतन्वत |… Read more »
Haridas

arya

Even space, water and air are formless(nirakaar) that does not make them ishwaar.

Arya

@Haridas
Where did I say every formless thing is Eeshvar? I said Eeshvar is formless.

Haridas
2. Four original Mantra Samhitas are Apaurusheya. Branches and Brahmans created by humans are correct only to extent they comply with Vedas. These are human creations. But Rigveda 10.90.10 verse of Purusha suktham says that vedas(rig, sama and yajur) came from yagya performed for supreme purusha and arya samaj is… Read more »
Arya
@Haridas Namaste, Which word in the Mantra means "For Lord"? Mantra uses "Panchami Vibhakti" of Vyakaran, which means "from" and not "for". Thus "Tasmaat" means "from that". Regarding the word "Yajnaat", refer Shatpath Brahman, Nighantu, and Rigvedaadi Bhashya Bhumika, which have translated "Yajna" as Eeshvar [Yajno Vai Vishnuh]. Thus the… Read more »
siva

@ Arya
Namaste
Could you please explain what is meant by "Yajno Vai Vishnuh" ? Is this is the same Vishnuh as the hindu god?
Thank you very much.

Arya
@siva Namaste brother, Yajno Vai Vishnuh means-the creator of all including Vedas is Eeshvar. "Yajna" means an act done for the betterment of others. This "Srishti" is thus a "Yajna" of Eeshvar, since it has been created to help souls attain Moksha. So the meaning of above line becomes-"This Srishti… Read more »
Venkat Raman
I do agree that the Vedas are supreme and the other texts should be taken with more than a pinch of salt. ISKCON is a well-meaning institution but still propagates sectarianism. In lecture after lecture I've heard the swamijis talking of Shiva as demi-god and that only 'materialistic' people will… Read more »
brahmin
Nice article …However i have a question here(seems to be out of context here)…we have a sacred thread and do Sandhyavandhana(chant Gayathri mantra) everyday…can you please give the significance of the same also what about the significance of performing yagnas?..isnt it rituals performed? You seem to give the most logical… Read more »
brahmin
Nice article …However i have a question here(seems to be out of context here)…we have a sacred thread and do Sandhyavandhana(chant Gayathri mantra) everyday…can you please give the significance of the same also what about the significance of performing yagnas?..isnt it rituals performed? You seem to give the most logical… Read more »
Arya
@brahmin Please read Satyarth Prakash by Swami Dayanand and find logical explanations to all. It is not necessary to chant Mantra vocally, it can be done in mind as well. Important is the thing that one should do it with understanding its true meaning in his/her heart. Understanding is more… Read more »
shabdika
Many many thanks respected brother Arya ji.U have saved my great labour.One of my friend in england wanted the meaning of this mantra word by word, this morning., in hurry and panic I couldnt do any thing but write to you . Once again I thank you and your site.
Rahul

Nams
Namste Agniveerji My intention is not to teach you something but just to explore more. I am fan of Mahrshi dayanand and his books.
Meri bhavnaoko aap samjhake yahi aasha karta hu…

Rahul
Namaste AgniveerJi…Great Work… Each and every scriptures of aaryavrat which is having common things to Veda should be acceptible. In order to create good society we need this system. We are really far away from path of god. Just by having some saints or scholar of high level in our… Read more »
shabdika

namestey to all. Can any body give me a litrel translation of a mantra of yejurved:===Om Shanno Devirbhisteye Aappobhaventu………………etc. word by word. I will be thankful to him.

Arya
@shabdika Namaste sister. I give hindi translation by Swami Dayanand- (देवी आपः) सब का प्रकाशक, सब को आनंद देने वाला और सर्वव्यापक ईश्वर, (अभिष्टये) मनोवांछित आनंद के लिए, (पीतये) पूर्णानंद की प्राप्ति के लिए, (नः) हम को (शम) कल्याणकारी, (भवन्तु) हो, अर्थात हमारा कल्याण करे. और (नः) हम पर (शन्योः)… Read more »
SatyaSanatan

@Arya
Namaste Aryaji
Thank you very much. I will purchase them.

You are doing really excellent work. I have gone through most of all your comments and they are absolutely make these guys speachless and answerless.

Really hats of to you bhai.

Dhanyawad.

SatyaSanatan
Dear Agniveer ji, Nice Article. Thank you for making this wonderful website with added features (Agnisena). Yes, we all know that Vedas contain absolute truth. But the problem is, we do not have access to Vedas. Some of us including me live in villages of India. I do have access… Read more »
Arya

@SatyaSanatan
Namaste brother,
Ved Bhashya by Swami Dayanand is available on http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org.
You can purchase books from your nearby Arya book store. You can also order for your books to http://www.vedicbooks.com/ and get the books.

Dhanyawad

viral

dear agniveer
I accept vedas as divine. But i am having doubts about puranas. I have read shivpuran and heard some part of garud puran. The seems to be fairy tales rather than divine words.

agniveer
Contrary to popular perceptions, Purans in most part are against Vedas. To find why, I simply recommend one to read original Purans like Shiva Puran or Brahmvaivart Puran that form the basis of visual Hindusim of today. If we have to survive and revive the golden era of wisdom, bliss… Read more »
Vishal
Namaste Agniveerji. I had asked a question in the comments but I did not get an answer. May be did not see my comment, so I am asking again.e I consider your website as being authentic Vedic knowledge and therefore I want to ask you only. My question is what… Read more »
agniveer
Namaste: Ved means knowledge. It has other meanings as well but this is the prominent meaning. Rig is actually Rik which becomes Rigved due to Sandhi rules. Rik has a deep meaning but basically used to denote worship or fundamental knowledge – basically true worship. Richa and Archana are derived… Read more »
Raguraman

Birth based Varna system is Vedic and is even found in dharma shastras.

rest of your stuff is all based on faulty understanding of scriptures.

Arya
@Ragu We pray Eeshvar that people like you, who have evil ideology of their foolish birth based caste superiority, get some brain and have some thinking capability in it. Stop claiming your Baba cult as Vedic and its books as Shastras. Books with such ill teachings towards our own brothers… Read more »
Raguraman
@Arya I also pray that Shri Hari somehow make you braindead Arya Samajis to give some thinking capacity. Stop claiming your heretic cult to be Vedic and its false interpretations of Vedas as authentic. Such ill commentaries have which leads one away from Vedas will give only painful torment to… Read more »
Arya
@Ragu Anyone including Dayanand and Krishna cant violate Eshvar’s “Karm Phal Vyavastha”. Deeds done in previous births will always be cause of reward or punishment according to your Karma. But Ragu, if you say Dayanand suffered before his death, it is same with Krishna. He died because of an arrow… Read more »
Raguraman
@Arya, Where is it said Shri Krishna died? Can you show it from Mahabharatha? You cannot for I know it is NOT there. One who has no material body, whose Form is satchitananda and is eternal as per Mahabharatha cannot die. get your facts straight first. Dayananda was a heretic… Read more »
Vishal Darira
Raghuramanji, I don’t have problems accepting Lord Krishna as God as i myself worship him, however you your nstupid comment of Swami Dayanand Saraswati dying an early death due to the so called misrepresentation of vedas doesn’t appeal to me …..COZ….i would request you to research on Prabhupad’s death as… Read more »
aryamusafir
@Ragu 1. So God can not die! But you claimed in one of your posts that God can do everything! You are trapped now. If God cant die, He is no more omnipotent. If He can die then it contradicts your statement! 2. You are as foolish as your self… Read more »
arun

Spiritualism is necessarily however without knowing the truth by blind vakti is meaningless, the problem in our religion these days is too much bakti less scholarly thinking

Proud to be a Kafir

The problem is, we have removed the layer b/w bhakti and bewkoofi and have mixed it like anything.

This is the biggest prob with us!

Truth
This is a scholarly presentation, no doubt. But spiritual knowledge cannot be understood by simply reading it. Access to such knowledge desires qualification apart from mundane scholarship (as stated elsewhere on this website). I think somewhere the essence is lost. These technical stuff will only help one to become hard-hearted… Read more »
agniveer
As per vedas, emotions and intellect should be in same direction. Unless the direction be clarified through intellect, emotions would mislead. Any article or in fact greatest text for that matter can only show direction to intellect. Emotions have to be discovered through self-practice alone. One can build the road… Read more »
arun

I am just curious to know more about arya smaj view on the ram and Krishna can you provide or suggest some article on this issue

agniveer

Arya Samaj considers Ram and Krishna to be great role models worth being followed. They were legends and true Vedic warriors. You can review articles on them at http://www.satyavidya.org

Vik

@amiya

See, all Purans, and Mahabharat hence Geetha, were interpolated and corrupted, so today we dont have the original scriptures of these, so I am pretty sure in the original scriptures of Purans and Geetha, Shri Krishna never claimed Himself to be GOD.

ambi

that is a baseless assumption my friend. first produce 2 completely different version of bhagwad gita in its original form(sanskrit) belonging to different time periods then claim what u just claimed.

amiya

@ vik, brother hat's the 1st time I heared that GITA was changed. can u pls tell me where did u get this.

agniveer
Gita is part of Mahabharat and Mahabharat is subject to huge amount of interpolations. What then prevents Geeta from changes? After all 700 shlokas when everyone was waiting for Krishna and Arjun to return to their side, looks implausible. That too with discussions on topics that have no relevance to… Read more »
Raguraman
Do you people have any credible evidence that Gita was interpolated. Anybody can claim anything. Somebody may claim that Vedas were interpolated. That does NOT make it true. Gita being an important text, was copies were maintained by different schools and commented upon extensively. Had there been different version of… Read more »
Arya
@Ragu Point here is not which text is interpolated and which is not. Even if you claim a text to be free from all tampering, it alone does not make it authoritative. We firmly believe that whichever text is not in accordance with Vedas should not be taken as authority… Read more »
Raguraman
@Arya, You can believe whatever you want, but when you make false claims you cannot provide any evidence…..You have NOT provided any evidence that Gita or Mahabharatha (in its essential teachings) are against Vedas in the first place. Second, Shri Krishna is God as per Gita and Mahabharatha, which is… Read more »
Arya

@Ragu
You also did not give any proof that Mahabharat is the authority in first place! Show any Mantra of Vedas which says that Krishna is God?

Raguraman
@ Arya, 1. Apastamba Paribhasa clearly says both Brahmanas (inlcudes Aranyajkas and Upanishads) and Samhitas are Vedas. It does NOT say this is true only for Taittiriya Samhita. I hope you people know that Taittiriya Samhita alias Krishna Yajur Veda is Veda. In none of the quotes provided, the author… Read more »
aryamusafir

@Raguraman
Where is the Mantra?

Can you deny any of the biographies of any Tom Dick and Herry to be Itihaas or Puranas? What is the condition for a text to be called as Itihaas? Why are not Hadith of Muslims Itihaas?

aryamusafir
@Ragu I have proof from Vedas that only Rig, Yaju, Sam, Atharva are Vedas. If you can give proofs from Vedas in your claims, why dont you do that? Which history you are talking about? Can you give me just names of 18 Puranas written in Brahman or Aranyaks? Your… Read more »
Vik
@amiya namaste, See you have got to understand, that Geetha is a part of MahaBharat, so if MahaBharat is corrupted, there are high chances that the Geetha in there was also not spared. Besides no hindu scriptue EXCEPT VEDAS, had some coding mechanism to preserve its purity. For example, Vedas… Read more »
amiya

cOULD u PLS GIVE ME TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF MAHAVARAT.
THNKS

Arya

@amiya
Mahabharat itself says that it originally contained 8800 Shlokas, then disciples of Vyas increased this number up to 24000. But now, over one lakh shlokas are part of Mahabharat!

Raguraman

What is your evidence for this claim?

Arya

@Raguraman
What will you do if I give you the evidence? Will you stop believing in incarnation of God?

Raguraman

Give me your evidence…I know the concept of avatara is also in Vedas (Samhitas included)…

Arya

@Ragu
First ensure me that you will not run away after seeing that shloka by saying it as another “Leela” of “almighty” Hari!

Give proofs from Vedas if you have!

amiya

Hi Mr. Agni,
Could U pls tell why did THe Great Sage Vyas wrote in Bhagabat Puran and in Mahabharat that KRISHNA is the supreme Lord.
did not he have proper knowledge about Vedas.

ambi
the oldest of all vedas is rigveda which speaks highly of shiva and many names have been given to him in that. lets do some children maths. lets assume shiva=a. one of the name given to shiva is vishnu and lets vishnu=b. so a=b—–>b=a. lets say krsna=c, krsna is the… Read more »
agniveer
There is no evidence of Rishi Vyas writing Bhagwat or 18 Purans except claims by these Purans themselves. Perhaps, when these Purans were being written (which continued till late 19th century), Rishi Vyas was a tall figure of knowledge. So the writers attributed these Purans to him to have credibility.… Read more »
Consummascient
As I said, I am a young Neuro-Scientist so would like to let you know that there are similarities between Ved writing and a Text book writing of today. I explain you how: Rishi were involved in doing research for more than 4 lakh years and every Rishi was a… Read more »
amiya
Thanks Agni for ur trying to answer . But it made me laugh when u said that there is no proof that Vyas Dev wrote Bhagavat Puran and Mahabharat. I dont get why except Dayananada and his Arya samaj, all the Great Saints and Vedic scholars believe in Avatarism. Why… Read more »
agniveer
1. If you have evidences that Vyas wrote Bhagvat kindly share with us all. 2. More scholars of world believe in Islam and Christianity and Atheism today, than Avtarism. By this number logic, then Islam and Christianity should be true. 3. Kindly list names of scholars and saints and books… Read more »
amiya
Thnks again Mr. Agni. 1.How can u prove anything that was written more than 5000 years ago. If this is the case then can u prove that Vedas was from GOD. 2. i did not talk about number logic . All I was saying that the religion that had been… Read more »
Arya
@amiya 1. Sister, if you dont believe in any book before 5000 years ago, then you have to reject Ramayan, Brahmin texts, Upanishads as well. Have you ever questioned these books? Please read Satyarth Prakash by Swami Dayanand to know, why Vedas alone are from God. In short, all the… Read more »
amiya
@ arya I m a male. u said Vedas R v books. Is it really? I thought Vedas means Knowledge, which is not limited to four Samhitas. If it would be the case then why Vedas ( 4 Samhitas) never talked about Reincarnation and u people believe in that. Could… Read more »
Arya
@amiya Dear brother, 1. It is very sad that people dont read Vedas. Vedas are the origin of every true concept of philosophy. Please refer to Rigved 10/59/6,7 Yajurved 4/15 Atharvaved 7/6/67/1. These are just few examples out of many in Vedas, where reincarnation has been mentioned clearly. 2. Please… Read more »
Raguraman
@Arya First know what Sandhya vandanam is? Sandhya is the name of Shri Hari alias Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna is indeed God of the Vedas. Avatar is NOT incarnation, but Lord comes as He is. You Arya Samajis (including your ignorant founder) have no idea what Vedas say in the… Read more »
Indian Agnostic
@abhya How dare you put Swami Vivekananda and the Sinner Asharam in the same league. You may have been blinded by faith not to see on national television how this baba was happy to protect criminals in his ashram..but I AM NOT! The idiot and his supporters need to be… Read more »
abhya
Ragu ji i am not arya samaji but i respect Mahrishi very much. I follow vivekananda and sri asharam bapu ji . I think u himself not know in reality the meaning of Incarnation.Read vedanta carefully and follow it .Read about the last stage of yoga and nirvikalp samadhi…after that… Read more »
Sanjeev Verma

Ragu,

People like you are responsible for the slavery of Our beloved Bharat. You killed our Maharishi Dayanand when you could not debate with Him.

Sanjeev

Arya
@Ragu Sandhya is “Kriya” and not “Karta”, I have told you earlier. Get some basic knowledge of Sanskrit and then think of any discussion on Vedas. There is not even a single Mantra of Vedas which talk about Shri Krishna, forget about He being God or not! I challenge you… Read more »
Raguraman
Mahabharata, Shanti Parva (12.328.5 onwards, dialogue between Lord Krishna and Arjuna): brAhme rAtrikShaye prApte tasya hy amitatejasaH prasAdAtprAdurabhavatpadmaM padmanibhekShaNa tatra brahmA samabhavatsa tasyaiva prasAdajaH In the brahma muhurta, at the end of the night, due to the mercy of the extremely brilliant Lord, a lotus emerged from His navel and… Read more »
Arya
@Raguraman Sandhya is a “Kriya” and not “Karta” in the above verse. Sandhya does not mean Krishna. Hari is not the name of God in first place. Vedas are ultimate and rest all texts are to be checked under the light of Vedas. Anything against Vedas cant be accepted. Vedas… Read more »
Raguraman
Lord Krishna mentone in Gita why He performs duties like an ordinary person. Even when He meditates, Sandhya (is a name of Lord Narayana or Lord krishna Himself). All names refer to Lord Hari only. O Arjuna, there is nothing in the three worlds (earth, heaven, and the upper regions)… Read more »
amiya

Dear agni,
Could U pls arrange a debate against ISKCON. this would help us know the truth.
thnks

agniveer
While we are ready to debate anyone, we do not proactively attempt to debate those cults who are based on precepts of tolerance and compassion. This is common with Vedic foundation and hence any discussions with them would be akin to those we have in our own families. Our larger… Read more »
amiya

I understand . I appretiate ur effort of Nirakar BRAHMA. but dont agree when u deny the supreme LORD SRI KRISHNA.
I am not even a member of ISKCON.
thnks

Arya

@amiya
Sister, Vedas say Eeshvar never incarnates. One, who was born, can not be Eeshvar. Shri Krishna was a great soul and he himself used to meditate. It proves he was a great devotee of Eeshvar but not Eeshvar himself.

Raguraman
Dear brother, Who ever told you people that avatar means “incarnation”? This is a misleading misnomer. Mahabharatha clearly says neither Lord Krishna nor Lord Rama have material bodies or that they were born to any other being. acred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03099.htm “Lomasa said, ‘Listen, O king, to the history of Rama (the son… Read more »
Arya

@Ragu
If Shri Krishna etc did not have material bodies, how could other people see, talk, fight, and love them? Were other people also divine to appreciate their divine form?

Does God need meditation? How can one meditate on self?

aryamusafir

@Ragu
Eeshvar can do anything according to you. So he can make you dumb (which He seem to have done!) and thus your all talks need not to be taken seriously!

Cant Eeshvar have difficulties to meditate on Himself if He can do anything? He may want to have difficulties sometimes!

Raguraman

What is the difficulty for Ishvara to meditate on Himself?

Raguraman
@Arya First read all my posts. I cannot repeat myself again and again. God is all powerful and can make His Form visible, audible etc. Again when He wills He can make His Form invisible, His voice inaudible etc. Lord does Sandhya vandanam and other duties to set an example,… Read more »
agniveer
Kindly read Nirnay ke Tat Par 4 volumes available from Amarswami Prakashan, Ghaziabad which contains huge number of such debates. If you can arrange a debate with ISKCON, we would be willing to participate. However that should be based on mutual compassion and willingness to learn rather than war of… Read more »
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