The recent ban on beef in Maharashtra has caused a huge uproar on social media. This ban is being hailed as a direct attack on their personal freedom.The argument is as follows:

“What I eat is my choice. Who is any government or moral police to dictate what I eat or do not eat? Will they ban spinach and lauki also tomorrow if I am offended? This is communal politics of right-winged Hindu fanatics and must be opposed.”On surface, it appears so reasonable and logical. But let us scratch the surface and explore how valid is this movement against Beef Ban.

0. The ban on cow slaughter and most cattle is already existing in majority of states of India. Were these beef lovers sleeping like Rip Van Winkle for last 68 years? What were they eating so far? Were they indulging in illegal activities? Why they did not show their beef love so far? Why they could not raise a movement against beef-ban in last near-seven decades?

1. No one has any problem with what you eat and what you do not. You are free to eat even from the commode in democracy. But the ban is not on eating. It is on killing of cattle. Now people like me have several objections to killing of cow (and cattle in general). If you can create beef in laboratory without killing my mother, I have absolutely no issues with you.

But if you want to kill my mother in name of democracy, then better explore that democracy in Somalia or ISIS zones.Your freedom to swing your arm ends where my nose begins.

2. Yes, it is true that for overwhelming majority of India, cow has sentimental values. They consider cow as mother. Their most popular God – Lord Krishna – is known as Gopal for his love for cows. On every occasion – birth, death, festival, happiness, sorrow – feeding and worshipping cow is considered a primary duty. There are multiple festivals dedicated primarily to cow. And this respect is extended to cattle in general. Bull is considered as companion of another revered God – Lord Shankar.

It does not matter whether you agree with this cow worship or not. But so far majority of Indians consider cow as mother, killing of cows cannot be acceptable.Think of it. Say I name an animal on your mother and slaughter it. I write name of a Hindu God, Prophet Muhammad or Jesus Christ on an animal and slaughter it. I desecrate a temple, mosque or church. Will you encourage this kind of behavior?

If yes, I will call you pervert. But that is besides the point. First dare to perform such acts as above, post videos of same on youtube, put your address in description and raise a movement to allow you such crazy behavior in name of democracy. Don’t have double standards in your apparent love for freedom.

If no, then slaughter of revered mother cow and associated cattle cannot be accepted in a country where cow is foundation of religious and cultural ethos of majority.

3. Don’t give the sick argument that cows and cattle are mistreated in the country. Don’t prove to me that most cow-sellers for beef production are Hindus. Hence ban on beef shows double standards.

If above is indeed the case, tell me instead, what you propose to do to help solve this problem. Reality is also that women are unsafe in many parts of country because of attitude of society. That does not mean having punishment for rape shows double standards. Your sick argument mirrors exactly the views of rapist in Nirbhaya case.

It does not matter what the religion of all beef-producers in India is. What matters is that killing of cattle is equivalent to abusing sentiments of majority and hence must be banned. The day people like you form majority of India and are comfortable posting youtube video of slaughtering an animal named after their mothers or religious figures, you can repeal the ban. Thankfully that is not the case today and hence beef-ban is justified.

4. It is true that even if there were no rational basis behind cattle-worship in Indian culture, still beef ban is justified on purely respect for sentiments of vast majority. But thankfully truth is that foundations of Indian culture are very rational and scientific. It is not out of jingoism that we consider India as lighthouse for entire world. It is because Indian culture stands on foundation of reason and science.

Coming to matter of cow and cattle worship:
Cow is the most productive animal known in planet. It is a living factory cum hospital producing products of utility from its cow-dung, urine, milk, sweat and even breath. Its benefit to economy, environment, fuel generation and healthcare is parallel to none. When bombing a factory or place of productivity attracts penalty, why not cow?

The environmental cost of beef production is highest of all livestock activities. Meat is the most polluting industry in world. And beef is most polluting of all meat producing industries.

Refer http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/raising-beef-creates-pollution-raising-pork-poultry-dairy-eggs-201407227289 for example.

Water footprint of beef is highest of all food. Estimates range from 441 gallons to 12008 gallons of water per pound of beef. In comparison, rice and wheat are 50 to 100 times more efficient!! Forget about India, there is a global movement to sway people away from beef to ensure our future generations have water to drink and food to eat.
Refer http://www.gracelinks.org/blog/1143/beef-the-king-of-the-big-water-footprints

Beef production is most inefficient use of fossil energy at an energy input to output ratio of 54:1.

Compare with chicken 4:1, pork 26:1, eggs 6:1. For Indian food grains, it is around 2:1. The implication is clear: When you eat beef instead of grains, 26 people go hungry to fulfill your so called “personal freedom of tongue indiscipline”.

Refer American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full . Also review http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Here is another one: http://www.globalissues.org/article/240/beef

We shower our deepest respect to seers who formed foundations of Indian culture. They saw what world is repenting today for being too late to observe and act upon. We are proud of them.

5. If one demands permission to kill cow and cattle because of his “personal freedom to eat whatever he or she wants”, then they should first raise their voice against following:

– Ban on killing of national and endangered animals and birds in most civilized countries of world. (In India, you cannot poach lions and tigers. In USA, killing bald and golden eagle in banned through a Special Act. Just possessing feathers lead to heavy penalty. Killing will give you long prison time and hefty fine.)

– Ban on defacing and damaging heritage and protected buildings. Why certain buildings be considered so special after all? Why “freedom-lovers” do not have freedom to choose what buildings they decide to consider special?

– Ban on insulting and desecration of national symbols like flag.

– Ban on sale and carrying of unlicensed arms and weapon.

– Ban on roaming naked and having sex in public.

– Ban on mutual cannibalism with consent.

– Ban on sale and consumption of narcotics.
and so on….

The same gang of “liberals” who are crying foul on beef ban have never ever shown any solidarity with above or any other related aspect of personal freedom. Many bollywood celebrities are twitting against beef ban. Just few weeks ago, Shirin Devi – only woman editor of Urdu magazine – was fired, arrested and now forced to live in oblivion for publishing Charlie Hebdo cartoons in the magazine. She published them to criticize the cartoons. Yet she had to face unimaginable trauma. The issue made headlines, she hails from Mumbai, but no bollywood personality or beef-lover dared to stand up to defend her. No one dared to publish Charlie Hebdo cartoons on their own walls and tweets to show solidarity with “freedom of speech”.

This itself shows blatant double standards.

I challenge all “beef-lovers” to first show their solidarity with above bans and restrictions that pre-date beef-ban. Please explain your selective silence on these issues.

One celebrity porn-writer wrote that she is willing to face 5 years of jail to defend the right of beef-eaters in Maharashtra. Let her post Charlie Hebdo cartoons to defend write of publishers, let her publicly consume narcotics to defend the right of ecstasy-lovers, let her perform nude sex-acts in public to defend right of sex-maniacs and so on. But they will not do so. Simply because the risks are too high.

Insulting sentiments of peaceful majority of Indians is a harmless hobby instead. Because Indian majority will not retaliate unlike many other groups that is famed for putting a prize on your head.

6. In an enlightened democracy, there can never be absolute freedom. Because your freedom can invade in my zone of freedom. All matters of freedom and restrictions are bound by following:
– Collective wisdom of majority that is witnessed through election process
– Responsibility and maturity with which one can use the freedom
– Respect for harmless sentiments of public. Your freedom ends where it restricts my freedom.

In case of beef ban, that happened through a democratic and legal manner. The government that brought this legislation made their intentions very clear in their election manifesto. They went to voters on plank of stopping beef production. Voters gave them their support and allowed them to proceed on this legally. Now, if they do not fulfill the promise made to voters, that would amount to cheating. Instead the government decided to follow path of honesty, show respect to process of democracy and fulfill aspirations of people who voted for them.

If someone has objections to democracy, he better relocate to jungles where every animal has full freedom to do whatever it wants. And not complain because a government fulfilled its promise to public.

7. What these protestors are saying actually is:
“ I don’t care if she is your mother. I don’t care if it destroys the environment. I don’t care if it results in 30 hungry people who die. I don’t care if it results in 20 thirsty dead. I don’t care about culture, economy, environment, poor, sentiments…nothing. I don’t care about law and democracy. I just care about taste of my tongue. If I enjoy eating your mother – living or dead – let me have that even if it is against law. That is my fundamental right.”

This is exactly the way ISIS terrorists think, rapists think, psychopaths think, criminals think. It only proves something else – that even love for beef has such brutal effect on Indian brains. Only God can imagine its impact when consumed. That is why Gandhi equated cow-protection with Swarajya.

8. Another lame argument given is that banning beef will lead to unemployment of people in this industry. This is inhuman. This is again double standards. Why suddenly this selective love for other people? If you are so sensitive to others, why ignore sensitivities of vast majority, poverty caused due to beef, hunger caused due to beef.

This lame argument can be used for any legal or illegal industry. Banning illegal firearms, illegal liquor, narcotics, opium production will all lead to unemployment of some people. After all there is no industry that functions without people. Even fighting against ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and other terror groups will render many terrorists unemployed! Should we then start promoting terrorism also as a career option instead?

Clearly, all this is mindset of sociopath – for whom self-indulgence supersedes social responsibility.

9. Those who will be displaced by ban on beef industry are free to move to other legal industries. If beef producers start using same resources for grain production, they can cater to 30 to 100 times bigger market. There will be more prosperity and employment. And environment will also thank them.

Instead of crying hoarse over beef ban, beef-lovers should instead propose alternatives for adoption of people in beef-industry in other worthwhile industries. If you have money and commitment to even go to jail, why not allocate some funds for rehabilitation of these people? Why demand legalization of terrorism in name of safeguarding careers of terrorists?

10. Don’t impose your moral policing on me. Don’t tell me why I should not worship cow as mother. Don’t ridicule me for electing a government that promises to respect my sentiments for cattle, eliminate hunger, protect environment and reduce poverty. Don’t threaten me that you would take law in your hands and insult my sentiments for your taste-buds. All this amounts to fanaticism as displayed by ISIS and moral brigade. And if you do so, be prepared to be repaid in same currency.

11. If you are indeed so passionate about “freedom and liberty”, raise voice on more pertinent issues instead of justifying insult of mother, damage of environment and promotion of hunger. Raise voice for uniform civil code to give equal rights to all women of all communities. Raise voice for Shirin Devi who cannot even move in public because she published Charlie Hebdo cartoons. Raise voice for mute animals whose right to live is jeopardized because of taste-buds of others. Raise voice for hundreds of more pertinent issues than your obsession to eat my mother.

12. Another silly argument given by many mentally deprived beef-lovers is as follows: “I worship lauki and potato. Eating them hurts my religious sentiments. So ban them also.”

Here is the answer:
Yes you have right to get them banned. Follow the following steps:
– First of all, stop eating lauki, potato, roti, pulses – whatever hurts your sentiments.
– Next, form an association of like-minded people who share your worship of potato.
– Third, stand in elections, prepare election manifesto that clearly states your commitment to ban potato, pulses blah blah. Feel free to put death sentence as punishment for potato eaters.
– Fourth, win the elections, prepare a bill, have it passed in assembly to make an act.
– Now thank your voters and be happy. 🙂
– If I eat potato after that, lawfully hang me to death.

This is the democratic process India believes in. Everyone is encouraged to respect and adopt it. But if democracy is not your cup of tea, I recommend asylum in Somalia or ISIS territories. Or jungles of Africa.

13. A large number of beef-lovers are threatening to violate the law and satisfy their cravings. Some say, if beef roams in night and gets eaten, its their fault. One porn-writer says she will eat beef even if she has to go jail for this. Here is our response:

Don’t act like terrorists. By this logic, you can also defend eating children in isolated streets. This is psychopath mindset.

Further, if you have right to violate law to claim your “personal freedom” of eating my mother, then I also have right to violate law and thrash you for attempting to attack my mother. In other words, don’t complain if illegal beef-activists are brought in control through illegal means by cow-worshippers. So respect law. Don’t promote anarchy.

14. Another breed of beef-lovers are calling this ban anti-democratic and unconstitutional.

What a joke! They forgot Civics lessons of school perhaps.

Ban on slaughter of cattle is clearly documented as a Directive Principle of State Policy in Part IV of Indian Constitution. It has been clearly stated that ” it shall be the duty of the State to apply these principles in
making laws.” (Para 37)

Para 48 states that: “The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter, of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle.”

So what Maharashtra Government has done is strictly in lines of Constitution and in a constitutional manner. Those who have objections to it must accuse and abuse the Constitution and its makers instead of those people who respect and follow the Constitution. If you have fundamental issues with Indian Constitution, better relocate to another country. Because India will continue to run as per its Constitution and celebrate the Republic Day as a promise to abide by the Constitution.

Finally, I want to make clear that beef-ban in Maharashtra is just a beginning. We voted for the incumbent government for following points in their manifesto and speeches:
1. Complete ban on cow-slaughter across India

2. Construction of Ram temple in Ayodhya

3. Repeal of Article 370 from Jammu & Kashmir (to integrate it with rest of India)

4. Uniform Civil Code across all communities of India (including ban on polygamy, triple talaq for gender equality)

5. Asylum for minorities of Pakistan and Bangladesh and their rehabilitation in India

6. Promotion of Sanskrit – mother of all languages and culture of India

7. Hardline stance on illegal infiltration from across border and reversing the trend

These are the key points in which incumbent political party differs from rest of the parties. We have been successful in first step – to get them democratically elected. Now we shall push forth to make sure each of them is implemented as soon as possible, as comprehensively as possible, as honestly as possible and as strictly as possible. We will ensure government does not deviate from its promises under any circumstance.

Let beef-lovers and potato-lovers and culture-haters do whatever they can. We are resolved to counter them democratically, intellectually and legally. And if they resort to promotion of illegal means – directly and indirectly, then they lose right to complain when they face the same.

Hence, we appeal to them to stop this double standard and join Agniveer in fulfilling aspirations of millions in democratic manner.

If they do not, please note that we take pride in Veer Shivaji who risked his life to protect the cows. We take pride in Gandhi. And we take pride in our visionary culture that taught us ways to fight poverty, hunger, pollution and live with compassion. We shall protect and nurture it irrespective of anyone’s perverted fetish. And go to any extent for it.

Ye to sirf jhaanki hai…. (This is just a trailer….)

Vande Mataram

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

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336 Comments on "Why beef-lovers are completely wrong?"

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Hindu
To all muslims on board. Please please be honest and select your sincere answers from the following..I expect you to be 100% sincere. Questions:- 1. Which of the following below is true? A) God is present everywhere B) God is present nowhere C) God is present somewhere (somewhere strictly mean… Read more »
Rishika
Indian govt must have banned beef as soon as India got independence but as usual Indian politicians do not care about the sentiments of the majority of the population as this majority is harmless and peaceful. However, Indian politicians tried their best to take care of the sentiments of the… Read more »
Nithin

IIT-IIM, yet so ignorant and irrational. Saddens me.

rusker

all the cows and cow lovers will be beheaded and converted to beef and consumed one day! you morons and finger ejaculators.. @Vajra says … ejaculate to much on the keyboard and you will also be consumed.

Patel
Haha yea ‘Bull essence’ ! That hurt you yea… @Vajra Now for a debate, Lets assume that you are a Donkey, just check below the tail you might find the bull essence. Now read the article carefully, The author address the cow as “my mother”. Unless you say the reader… Read more »
Jazib Bhat

-Agniveer
With due respect I was just answering his questions.

-Saroj
Nur means reflected light. I have Quoted dictionaries even. I think you didn’t see it.
Further, Qur’an still on itself gives same idea.

Agniveer Agni

The concerned person has requested you several times to continue the question-answer session on email. And despite several requests, you still insist on not reading or following the Disclaimer and Comment Policy.

SAROJ

yes i saw that brother. but the word also means light, beam, brightness, gleam, glow, illumination, lamp, INDIRECT LIGHT .’
so basically u cherry picked indirect light to suit your own prefered meaning. and where is the the word”rflectd “bro?

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj I don’t want to Quote all 100+ embryological verses. I can even show you WORDS REPUTED LOGICIANS, MATHEMATICIANS, SCIENTISTS WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM. And point to note is they were atheists. For example I of them whom I love very much who DEBUNKED THE THEORY THAT GOD CAN’T DO… Read more »
Agniveer Agni
Dear Jazib, Please read disclaimer before any further posts. You have been asked to do so by others. Your trolling behavior is unacceptable and against disclaimer and comment policy of site. You are free to further your conversion agenda on your own site. Kindly refrain from using this site as… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Nur means reflected light I Quoted dictionaries regarding that and proved from Qur’an also. There are 100+ verses and we can Quote 100+scientists to justify them. Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, U.S.A., proclaims: “… these… Read more »
SAROJ

the word nur only means light. the addition of “reflected” is NOT correct. maybe it can be used as refleced light, but that is not translation.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Next in line Prof. Marshall Johnson is one of the leading scientists in US, and is the head of the Department of Anatomy and Director of the Daniel Institute at the Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia in US. According to Prof. Johnson, if we describe the embryo as a… Read more »
SAROJ

great brother wondrful
now read my posts on your commnts on vedas. i think ypu consulted some anti hindu websited for aid. okay go ahead. let me, the helpless one in amidst a battle be saved by the supreme sarasvathi.
also please read srimad bhagavatham canto 3 chapter 31.

SAROJ

it would be better if we continue in emails.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Now I will give you verses where you can show no own interpretations. Although it doesn’t matter. You must be knowing that embryology in Qur’an is confirmed by reputed EMBRYOLOGISTS OF WORLD. Maybe your agniveer didn’t told you. That’s why they never mention it. The only fool who tried… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Was this a Joke? totally hilarious an ubiased reader would understand that kullun simply refers to moon and sun and not to earth. Response : Those who know Arabic they know it refers to ALL SUN MOON AND EARTH. 2. One who wants to learn Qur’an after searching will… Read more »
SAROJ
the real joke was the way you interpret vedas. in Vedas we require metaphors and allegories that pertain to context, because the tradition says Vedas are like poems. the rishis are kavis, poets, hence their verses r not metpahors. only a poet can become a sage , because since the… Read more »
SAROJ

the verse dosent mention the arabic word for “reflected”

SAROJ

then where am i lying?

Jazib Bhat

Rig veda 10:164:47
There is no such reference man.

Rig Veda 10 :164 contains 5 mantras

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Revisiting vedas 4 cornered earth. Rig Veda 7:83:3 3 The boundaries of earth were seen all dark with dust: O Indra-Varuna, the shout went up to heaven. The enmities of the people compassed me about. Ye heard my calling and ye came to me with help. You said that… Read more »
SAROJ
“You said that it means evil spread the earth. I agree but FLAT EARTH AS DESCRIPTION MENTIONS(what they thought)” tht is not fitting since the vedas are metaphorical, it is not to be taken as literal.fro example, today we know sun dsnt go up, but still we say”sunrise”. today we… Read more »
SAROJ

the verse here is not mentioning the shape of earth, its like we “emntion” what sky looks like if someone uses the phrase “under the sky”.

SAROJ
now rig veda4.50.1 this i have explained before. and thunder dosent represent eagerness, i dont know how you reached this interpretaion. thunder repesents a force that destroys darkness. that is why vedas say indra, with thundr destroys evil forces.t brhaspathi with might props the ends-the existence out of which all… Read more »
SAROJ
Vers 1 Brihaspati is he who has established firmly the limits and definitions of the Earth, that is to say of the material consciousness. The existence out of which all formations are made is an obscure, fluid and indeterminate movement,—salilam, Water. The first necessity is to create a sufficiently stable… Read more »
SAROJ

it would e better if we move on to emails now.

SAROJ

brother come to gmails now.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj rain will come again-is a common statement. meaning rain will fall again. ay person who dosent know water cycle will also say that, dsent make it scientific. Response : Are you nuts or what? Qur’an doesn’t say by LAND AND RETURNING RAIN IT SAYS BY HEAVEN AND RETURNING RAIN… Read more »
SAROJ
:and the verse you gave gives no impression” that is your statement based on half reading and prejudice,read my whole comment. i am not interpetaing as i like. whatever metphors i use, its all basesd on the Vedas itself. and plese tell me how it dosent make an impression. your… Read more »
SAROJ
what is now pinching you is the fact that G VEDA actually talks of water cycle in a metaphoric way, which i showed you clearly in a logical manner. for that u should read it without prejudice, which surly ppl lik u wont. ND NEVER. if you are cery much… Read more »
SAROJ

and as the quran . i was not talkin abt “lannd returning” i was talkn about those vrses u quoted that supposedly talk of water cycle. you r on nuts not me.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Your poor arguments does not Justify anything. Noor means reflected light. I Quoted dictionaries even Qur’an which itself says IN 24:35 BY GIVING A PARABLE OF REFLECTED LIGHT. Dr. Zakir Naik addressed these Poor question a time ago. I even Quoted MUHAMMAD ASAD translator of Qur’an who converted to… Read more »
SAROJ

if you refer to water cycle in vedas that i talked, then u r not giving a sholarly judgement, but ur stubborn prejudicial judgement, which dosent stand on ground.

Jazib Bhat

So Agniveer’s Question DOES THAT MEANS ALLAH IS REFLECTED LIGHT was put to tears.

SAROJ
SAROJ
water cycle metaphorically said in rig veda: The Rig Veda has a lot of metaphors in it. due to this many verses appear obscure and unclear. However understanding the verses to some extend and opening up the metaphors, we can find sensible meaning to many verses in Vedas. In rig… Read more »
SAROJ
COMMENT AFTER READING THE WHOLE EXPLANATION. DONT NITPICK PIECES OF MY COMMENTS FROM MY SECTION AND THEN JUDGE. THIS IS THE ONLY INTERPRETATION THAT COULD LINK ALL THE PARTS OF THE VERSE TOGETHER IN A LOGICAL SEQUENCE, OTHERWISE THE VERSE IS OBSCUE. AND ECH SECTION(AMOGST THE 3) HAVE A STRONG… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
* The “lamp” is the revelation which God grants to His prophets and which is reflected in the believer’s heart – the “niche” of the above parable (Ubayy ibn Ka’b, as quoted by Tabari) – after being received and consciously grasped by his reason (“the glass [shining brightly] like a… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
As Zakir Naik correctly said THE VERSE IN WHICH ALLAH CALLS HIMSELF LIGHT. IN THE SAME VERSE ALLAH GIVEN PARABLE OF HIS LIGHT AND SAYS IT IS A NICHE WITHIN IT A LAMP WHICH IS ENCLOSED IN A Glass. This passage given idea of a reflected light like that of… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
Agniveer said further: Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
Continued… Qur’an 10:5 Muhammad Asad: He it is who has made the sun a [source of] radiant light and the moon a LIGHT REFLECTED T.B.Irving: He it is Who has placed the sun for radiance and the moon for REFLECTED LIGHT Ali Ünal: He it is Who has made the… Read more »
SAROJ
all translation r aftr coming to know that moon reflects sunlight.all translations that usses “ref;ected light” are false because the original erse does not contain the arabic word for “reflected” it only states “light”. yes i agree with zakir naik that two different words are used for sun n moon:lamp… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Qur’an on MOON LIGHT Followed by Agniveer’s lies and Nonsense comments. “It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty).” [Al-Qur’aan 10:5] Zakir Naik said regarding this that different words have been used for sun and moon… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj And despite Agniveer’s own fabrication. He faces blunder. See how ‘LET’S TAKE HIS WRONG TRANSLATION TRUE’ Let’s see the verse “Moon decided to marry. Day and Night attended its wedding. And sun gifted his daughter “Sun ray” to Moon.” Response: The verse starts with MOON DECIDED TO MARRY IS… Read more »
SAROJ

and thats what you didnt do with atharva veda 6/77/1 and rig veda 6/72/1 and all other verses.
by the way i agree here there is no problem with vedas.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Science in Vedas Session with AGNIVEER : AGNIVEER Light of Moon : Rig Veda 10.85.9 “Moon decided to marry. Day and Night attended its wedding. And sun gifted his daughter “Sun ray” to Moon.” Response : What Deception! This whole chapter is after a bride named SURYA to a… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Regarding Earth Atharva Veda 4.11.1 The Bull( वृषभ) supports the wide-spread earth and heaven, the Bull supports the spacious air between them. Agniveers Deception on this. Atharva Veda 4.11.1 ″The sun has held the earth and other planets” HE doesn’t translate second part as it will become AND SUN… Read more »
SAROJ
atharva veda 4/11/1 talks of bull in a metaphorical manner. the bull is representation of power. the Bull” here refer to the devatha of the hymn, thus metaphorising the strenghth of the devatha(deity) that sustain the earth. there is nothing unscientific here, the only thing is that you should understand… Read more »
SAROJ
you can see it for yourselg in the same verse AV4/11/1 that bull is not literal. had it been literal, y does he verse say bull support “air region”(i.e.anthariksha-atmosphere) which is all around us and there is no reason for any person at any level of scientific knowledge, low or… Read more »
SAROJ
also, it could be beter to continue our discussion via emails. it would be easie for me to message and send comments to you. the main problem is the word limit here, due to which i cant typ ethe whole thing i want to. and it would be easy to… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj read the whole hymn. first , if the rushi says”firm are the hevens” then y he mentions suddenly about horses” Response :Because he thought EARTH AND HEAVEN TO BE FIRM and horses are moving which you and me can even see. There is nothing to be looked for here.… Read more »
SAROJ
you r decptive now and is not adressing the real uissues. /’there is nothing to look for here” there is something to look for here because y does the rishi says”earth/heavn is firm” and then go “putting horses” in the same verse, ine after the other? it is becaue there… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Next one in Line Qur’an talks about evaporation in great detail but I will provide a single Verse which says ” RAIN RETURNS” Implying to evaporation as in that case water goes back to clouds. Qur’an 86:11 Pickthall: By the heaven which giveth the RETURNING RAIN Sahih International: By… Read more »
SAROJ

rain will come again-is a common statement. meaning rain will fall again. ay person who dosent know water cycle will also say that, dsent make it scientific.

Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Don’t you know Truth never dies, whatsoever the conditions are. Qur’an 17:81 And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.” I hope L-rd shows you signs and I know he will show everyone in his inner self. Qur’an 41:53… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Your own interpretation are hilarious. You Just don’t wanna accept reality but it doesn’t matter. You said regarding FIRM STAND THE HEAVEN AND EARTH that horses are mentioned. I could have rebuked you by saying that HE MUST HAVE THOUGHT earth and heaven to be firm. And horses are… Read more »
SAROJ
Your own interpretation are hilarious. You Just don’t wanna accept reality but it doesn’t matter. You said regarding FIRM STAND THE HEAVEN AND EARTH that horses are mentioned. I could have rebuked you by saying that HE MUST HAVE THOUGHT earth and heaven to be firm. And horses are moving… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Don’t change topic. Here pls quote my whole rsponse brother. the verse refers to the people at that time, Response :Do you read my Answer, it speaks in General and you are giving your own interpretation. I also said it is also separately mentioned. even if by reducing mass… Read more »
SAROJ
i read your answer properly. “it dosent say earh was reduced wen humam inhabited it: ir does. the verse says that to unbeluvers, God reduced the land in their control. if it does not refer to human beings lived earth at that time as u claim, y does the quran… Read more »
SAROJ
“you dont want to accept truth” i dont want to acccept concoted, out of contect interpretations of a verse like you have done. any way i have written o the atharva veda verse 6/77/ ypu quoted, i shall look into other verses soon or afterwards. stay tuned, it wud take… Read more »
Jazib Bhat

-Saroj
You even tried to restrict this passage to PROPHET MUHAMMAD pbuh’s time.

However this passages talks in general.

SAROJ
the verse restricts to people’ time. because read the first few verses of the hymn where unblivers doubt the prophethood of the prophet. thus the whole hymn deals with the people at that time.the inner meaning might be universal. at least the whole hymn refer to the time when human… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj I am very very shocked HOW YOU TRIED TO PUT YOUR OWN WORDS ” THEN” When it is clearly as a different part and mentioned EVER SEPARATELY in other place. Anyway whenever I put links COMMENT takes time. I put plants feeling pain also. 20 days ago, THE COMMENT… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-SAROJ Who were you DECIEVING here. You first Quoted full verse 44. Nay, We gave the luxuries of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them. See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is… Read more »
SAROJ
pls quote my whole rsponse brother. the verse refers to the people at that time, even if by reducing mass or by glaciers, it dosent manke a significant differnce to the land occupied by huma beings as long as they lived. the earth wasnt “200 times bigger” when human beings… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Just because you can’t comprehend THE Quran that’s not the problem of Qur’an. Your comment : as for reduction of arth’s ladnmass,.Then do they not see that We set upon the land, reducing it from its borders? So it is they who will overcomeme? the verse says God decreases… Read more »
SAROJ
as for reduction of arth’s ladnmass,.Then do they not see that We set upon the land, reducing it from its borders? So it is they who will overcomeme? the verse says God decreases the landmass from the borders, that is decrease interms of the size,not mass. ypu gave me reference… Read more »
SAROJ
one guy even tried to go to the limit of telling me that this verse refers to “land reducing due to ice and glaciers melting due to global warming” the crux here is to understand the context of the verse. the verse states thus: 44. Nay, We gave the luxuries… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
Further Qur’an 21:33 makes it clear Qur’an 21:33 Dr. Kamal Omar And He it is Who created the night and the day; and the sun and the moon. ALL (these) move swiftly in an orbit (in space) Sahih International : And it is He who created the night and the… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj OK next topic Vedas say EARTH is immovable. What about that Atharva Veda 6.77.1(Damodhar) Firm stands the heaven, firm stands the earth, firm stands this universal world… Now what about the above?? It’s repeated in Atharva Veda 6.44.1(Damodhar) Firm stood the heaven, firm stood the earth, firm stood this… Read more »
SAROJ

totally hilarious an ubiased reader would understand that kullun simply refers to moon and sun and not to earth.

SAROJ
i would urge yu to rread the whole hyman and correlate with other parts of vedic corpus.also look at the dangers u enter with literal inerpretation. atharva veda 6/77 in its entirety is here:Firm stands the heaven, firm stands the earth, firm stands this universal world, Firm stand the rooted… Read more »
SAROJ
contd… jathaveda:i.e.to control the senses and thus the whole body. after invoking jathaveda, the cows are retrived. cows, if you look into various hymns of rig veda refer to “light”,kowledge, or something that takes us higher planes of consciousness. thus the meaning of the wholy hymn, when critically examining the… Read more »
SAROJ

please give me time to look into the other hymns. also.namasthe.

Jazib Bhat
According to 1. Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 2, Pages 215-218. 2. Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 8, Pages 236-238. 3. Al-Muheet dictionary [2], Page 1179. 4. Al-Muajam Al-Waseet dictionary [3], Pages 272-274. 5. Al-Mawrid dictionary Arabic-English section [4], Page 537. 6. Arabic-English dictionary the Hans Wehr dictionary… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Anyway you want to take it METAPHOR, you can take it. Bible also say ENDS OF EARTH, I was guessing in this way even if book’s says earth is FLAT, it can be defended by saying it is a metaphor and refers to a piece of land. 1. 21:44… Read more »
SAROJ
it is basically a metaphor .this is because of two points (1)the rig veda also says that the earth si “bowl shaped”and in many many verses “hemispherre”. if it were to be taken literally, alomg with the verses that state earth is “four cornered”, then this would be in contradiction.… Read more »
SAROJ
further more in aithreya brahmana, we find a very interesting verse describing the rising and stting of the sun. the Aitareya Brahmana (3.44) declares:“The Sun does never set nor rise. When people think the Sun is setting it is not so. For after having arrived at the end of the… Read more »
Jazib Bhat

From another vantage point, we find that today, too, the world is divided into two Easts — a near East and a far East — and two Wests — a near West, referring to Europe, and a far West, meaning America.

SAROJ
the point to be noted is that the four corners of earth mentioned in Vedas just refer to the four cardinal directions, in reference to a yajna. because in shatapatha brahmana the four corners are clearly mentioned as the “quarters” or directions. yes from point to point on earth surface,… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Regarding earth’s four ends your answer was not fitting. 1. The word used Is ” Pritvi” which refers to whole earth. It’s not Arabic where ARD mean both earth as well as piece of land. Reading in context tells that it actually meant end. Consider this: It is talking… Read more »
SAROJ
this verse has a totally different expalanation . i gave that above since for this, you have to look into the original vedic cosmogenesis. as per vedic cosmogenesis, the entire universe originally is salilam-waters-a continus obscure flus. brhaspathi then gives a mighty constrain upon it that original waters. the existence… Read more »
SAROJ
contd… four cardinal directions. the confusion comes when we see the verse sayong”the directions are earth’s four corbers”.thus is because we tend to take it literally. but the vedic pictures are always to be taken in a metaohoric manner. the reason behind this “four ends of earth as directions” is… Read more »
SAROJ
and yu first statement”a man visiting the ends make it clear”/ the response to this i gave originally. to “go to the ends” is a metaphoric term denoting the man pervades the whole suraface. if the “man goes to the ends of the earth” it means he covers/pervades the whole… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj You spoke totally wrong about comparison because you haven’t seen OSTRICH EGG. Scientists have confirmed it. I can’t upload photos here otherwise I would have done it. You based you’re comparison on an simple egg. -THE TOP VIEW CANNOT BE “SEMI SPHERE OR ANYTHING IKE THAT SINCE IT IS… Read more »
SAROJ
top view means the 2d view you see when you look at it from top for eath, this top view is circle. for ostrich egg it is ellipse. i gave both the liks above. for earth the side view(2d figure you see when you loom at the 3d object from… Read more »
SAROJ
you are telling the top view is semi spherical?”bro?mad? nd not normal egg, but ostrich egg? normal egg and ostrich egg are both the same shape-prolate spheroid. while the earth is oblete spheroid. https://www.google.co.in/search?q=ostrich+egg&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CHgQiR5qFQoTCLCt87Oxo8gCFcJtFAodwiEGPg#imgrc=X_5akEkgwZCM3M%3A its here bro. if you look at this picture, the front view is elliptical, while if… Read more »
SAROJ
“again you repeated your false notions”. the false notions is not mine but yours. and above, i have refuted them properly with references. well you are not ready to understand things properly, then stay in ignorance that earth is ostrich egg shape… i hv given the links to the prolate… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Again same you repeated. First your false notions. Don’t know on what you based them. -and 21:33 of qurn says: “we created night and day and sun and moon and all heavenly bodies are swimming in orbit” wgere is “earth diminishing” here? and “diminishing in land” dosent mean the… Read more »
SAROJ
but these verses dosent mean the mass/size is reducing.in the scientific way. i have also responded to your frivolus and unscientific claims”earth is ostrich egg shape/ top view is semi spherical ec”on october 2. read that also. and see where your claims stand. read that in detail until you understand… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj Shape of earth according to Vedas. Rig Veda 7.83.3 The ENDS of the EARTH are beheld laid waste… HERE IS THE SANSKRIT WORD USED अंत [Anta]= End And interestingly this word is known to most HINDUS. But maybe they come up with any argument we will see what REPUTED… Read more »
SAROJ
as for the word “ends” these are not to be taken as literal, one, the word “ends” are here metaphors. in these verses , to move to the ends mean to pervade the whole earth. for example,av 15.7, “he moved by his moving majesty to the ends of the earth”,simply… Read more »
SAROJ
the crux in understanding the verses describing “four cornered/sided earth” is to look properly at shatapatha brahmana verse 6.1.2.29 it says”earth is 4 cornered .THE QUARTERS ARE HER (EARTH’S)CORNERS”. THE quarters refer to the four cardinal directions-north east west and south.and this also fits the context because, the whole of… Read more »
SAROJ
and the atharva veda 20.88 refers to the creation of universe.by brhaspathi.the same is repeated in rig veda 4/50. here, we find in the first part, brhaspathi “propping apart earth’s limits by great might”.to know the meaning of this, you must know thebackground of hindu cosmology which is found elsewhere… Read more »
SAROJ
RV 7.83.3 the whole hymn describes indra/varuna(indra-the aspet that destroys darkness, and varuna as the aspect that spreads lightness) as forces destroying evil forces(darkness) nd establishing lightness(goodness). the verse says that the earths’ boundaries(limits) were covered in darkness and indra/varuna hers the call of the worshipper and by his cry(ravena)… Read more »
SAROJ
contd… is not deined with its limits and premises. thus understanding with the corret background of vedic cosmology,there is no scientific “error” here at all, the only thing is that the meaning the phrase “propped the ends” takes a different one when interpreted in the light of vedic cosmogenesis,. the… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
Continued from previous… Narrated Abu Huraira: “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e., the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings),and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of… Read more »
SAROJ
the moment you say this, you are making a simple mistake. who told you the earth is not circle from top view. look from the tip of the axis. it is circle. why because earth is always spinning. the equitorial region experiences maximum centrifugal force due to which it expands.… Read more »
SAROJ
brother what do you mean by saying that the top view is “semi sphercal shape”.this itself is wrong. in engineering languae wich describes a three dimentional object, top view,side view and front view refers to the two dimensional projections of what you see when you view from the top,side and… Read more »
SAROJ

so first learn basics of 3d views and then come and “correct my misconceptions”.

SAROJ
and perhaps you should see what an ostrich egg looks like. it prolate sheroid wgeeras earth is oblete spherioid.. i have explaind in my first post itself how stupid this compasisin is, and you are simply beating around the bush. first read my above posts carefully and see the difference… Read more »
SAROJ

this was my point.
the front view is the only comparisoion of both earth and ostrich egg.
ostrich egg and normal egg shape are same brother.the only different is size and ratios.
thus sorry your comments make no sense.

SAROJ
the ostrich egg shape is prolate spheroid. and the earth is oblete shpheroid.this is a major difference. firt you should have some engineering background to understand this. the front view of both(earth n egg) are elliptical. the top views(two dimentional projection of the top view) of earth is circle and… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj thus when you compare egg shape to earth it is utter ignorance of basic laws of physics. Response :It’s Ostrich EGG shape and what I said wad based on facts and not mere theories. Our Scholars debate at international level where the source is not an ordinary theory but… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj hehehe bro itts funny to see how you screw up things. Response: We don’t screw anything and the thing which is funny is AGNIVEERS LIES. okay first lets see the word egg and compar it to earth. Response: Not EGG it’s Ostrich EGG which is exactly as Earth. I… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj At last you repeated the same with this as additional thus in this comparision only 33% match can we find. nearly 66% does not match.this is not a good approximation at all.thus if you interpret this verse of the noble quran in this way, you dig up a dangerous… Read more »
SAROJ
and 21:33 of qurn says: “we created night and day and sun and moon and all heavenly bodies are swimming in orbit” wgere is “earth diminishing” here? and “diminishing in land” dosent mean the mass is decreasing, only that the area is decreasing. so i dont see any “interesting” scientific… Read more »
Jazib Bhat
-Saroj hehehe bro itts funny to see how you screw up things. Response : It’s AGNIVEER who was telling lies and we don’t screw anything. Ok let’s see the word egg and compar it to earth. Response: It’s Ostrich EGG remember. I hope you have seen it that’s why you… Read more »
Jazib Bhat

+Saroj
This guy has complained about egg shaped mentioned in Qur’an and we will try to address *his misconceptions*

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