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GiveAahuti

UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

PayPal
[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

HomeSocietyCaste System

There is no caste-system in Vedas

Sanjeev Newar
By Sanjeev Newar
Say No To Caste System
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

This entry is part 6 of 11 in the series Vedas totally reject Caste System

Vedas totally reject Caste System

It is unfortunate that in our country, where Vedas were the foundation of our culture, we forgot these original lessons of Vedas and got trap in a variety of misconceptions regarding birth-based caste system and discrimination of people born in certain caste collectively known as Shudras.

The misleading theories of communists and biased Indologists have already caused great damage to our society and have sown seeds of differences. It is unfortunate that so-called Dalits consider themselves outcast, and hence, we fail to unite for prosperity and security. The only solution is to go back to the roots – the Vedas – and rebuild our understanding of our relationships with each other.

In this chapter, we will further evaluate the reality of caste system and see many examples of Varna Migration.

What is caste?

The concept of caste is relatively new. Vedas contain no word that can be considered a synonym for ‘caste.’ The two words commonly considered to mean ‘caste,’ are Jaati and Varna. However, the truth is that all the three mean completely different things.
Caste is a European innovation having no semblance in Vedic culture.

What is Jaati?

Jaati means a classification based on the source of origin. Nyaya Sutra states “Samaanaprasavaatmika Jaatih” or those having similar birth source form a Jaati.

An initial broad classification made by Rishis is four-fold:

• Udbhija (coming out of ground like plants)
• Andaja (coming out of eggs like birds and reptiles)
• Pindaja (mammals) and
• Ushmaj (reproducing due to temperatures and ambient conditions like virus and bacteria.)

Similarly, various animals like elephant, lion, rabbits, etc. form different ‘Jaati.’ In the same manner, entire humanity forms one ‘Jaati’. A particular Jaati will have similar physical characteristics, cannot change from one Jaati to another, and cannot crossbreed. Jaati is the creation of Ishwar or God.

Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra are no way different Jaati because there is no difference in the source of birth or even physical characteristics to differentiate between them.

Later, word ‘Jaati’ started being used to imply any classification. In common usage, we call even different communities as different ‘Jaati.’ However, that is merely convenience of usage. In reality, all humans form one single Jaati.

What is Varna?

The actual word used for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra is ‘Varna’ and not Jaati.
The word ‘Varna’ is used not only for these four but also for Dasyu and Arya.
‘Varna’ means one that is adopted by choice. While Jaati is provided by God, ‘Varna’ is our own choice.

Those who choose to be Arya are called ‘Arya Varna.’ Those who choose to be Dasyu become ‘Dasyu Varna’. Same for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra.

That is why Vedic Dharma is called ‘Varnashram Dharma.’ The word Varna itself implies that this is based on complete freedom of choice and meritocracy.

Those involved in intellectual activities have chosen ‘Brahmin Varna’. Those into defense and warfare are ‘Kshatriya Varna’. Those in economics and animal rearing are ‘Vaishya Varna’ and those involved in other support functions are “Shudra Varna”. They refer merely to various choices of professions and have nothing to do with any Jaati or birth.

“Purush Sukta”- The biggest culprit?

Often mantras of Purush Sukta are cited to prove that Brahmins originated from Mouth, Kshatriya from hands, Vaishya from thighs and Shudras from legs of God. Hence, these Varnas are birth-based. However, nothing could be more deceptive. Let us see why:
Vedas describe God to be shapeless and unchangeable. How can such a God take the shape of a gigantic person if He is shapeless?

If indeed this were true, this would defy the theory of Karma of Vedas because as per Theory of Karma, one’s family of birth can change as per his or her deeds. One born in Shudra family can take birth as king’s son in next birth. But if Shudras are born from feet of God, how can same Shudra again take birth from hands of God?

The soul is timeless and never born. The soul can have no Varna. It is only when the soul takes birth as a human it has a chance to opt a Varna. Then what does it mean by a Varna coming from one part of God’s body? If Soul did not take birth from God’s body, then does it mean the body of the soul is prepared from God’s body parts? However, as per Vedas, even nature is eternal. And same atoms recycle among various humans. It is technically impossible for anyone taking birth from God’s body, even if we assume God to be having a body.

“Purush Sukta” – The actual meaning

The said Purush Sukta is in 31st Chapter of Yajurveda, apart from Rigveda and Atharvaveda with some variations. In Yajurveda, it is 31.11. To see what it actually means, let us look at the previous mantra 31.10. It asks a question – Who is mouth? Who is hand? Who is thigh and who is leg?

The next mantra gives the answer – Brahmin is the mouth. Kshatriya is hand. Vaishya is thigh and Shudra becomes the legs.

Note that the mantra does not say that Brahmin “takes birth” from mouth…It says Brahmin “is” mouth. Because if the mantra would mean “takes birth” it would not answer the question in previous mantra “Who is mouth?”

For example, if I ask “Who is Dashrath?” An answer like “Rama is born from Dashrath” would be meaningless!

The actual meaning is: In society, Brahmins or intellectuals form the brain, head or mouth that think and speak. Kshatriyas or defense personnel form the hands that protect. Vaishyas or producers and businessmen form the thigh that support and nurture (note that thigh bone or femur produces blood and is the strongest bone). In Atharvaveda, instead of Uru or Thigh, the word “Madhya” is used meaning that it also denotes the stomach and central part of the body. Shudra or Labor force forms the legs that lay the foundation and make the body run.

The next mantras talk of other parts of this body like mind, eyes, etc. The Purush Sukta describes the origin and continuation of creation including human society and states ingredients of a meaningful society.

It is a pity that such a beautiful allegorical description of society and creation is distorted to mean something that is completely contrary to Vedic ethos.

Even the Brahman texts, Manusmriti, Mahabharat, Ramayan, and Bhagvat, do not state anything even close to the crazy hypothesis of God creating Brahmins by tearing of flesh from his mouth, Kshatriya from the flesh of hands and so on.

It is thus obvious why Brahmins are accorded high respect in Vedas. This is same as what happens even in modern society. Scholars and experts get our respect because they form the direction-providers for entire humanity. However, as we have discussed in previous chapters, the dignity of labor is equally emphasized in Vedas, and hence, there is no element of discrimination.

In Vedic culture, everyone is considered to be born as Shudra. Then based on his or her education, one becomes a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya. This completion of education is considered to be the second birth. Hence, these three Varnas are called “Dwija” or twice-born. But those who remain uneducated for whatever reasons are not discarded from society. They continue as Shudra and perform support activities for the society.

A son of Brahmin, if he fails to complete his education, becomes a Shudra. Similarly, son of a Shudra or even a Dasyu, if he completes his education can become a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya. This is a pure meritocracy. The way degrees are accorded today; Yajnopaveet was provided in the Vedic system. Further, non-compliance with the code of conduct for each Varna could result in taking away of the Yajnopaveet.

Examples of change of Varnas

There are many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.

• Aitareya Rishi was the son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of the highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understanding Rigveda.

• Ailush Rishi was the son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However, he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only he was invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)

• Satyakaam Jaabaal was the son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.

• Prishadh was the son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further, he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.

• (Vishnu Puran 4.1.14) Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?

• Nabhag, son of King Nedishtha, became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)

• Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin, and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)

• Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)

• As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.

• Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.

• Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (Vishnu Puran 4.3.5)

• Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (Vishnu Puran 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran, and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.

• Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya, and Vritsamati.

• Matanga was the son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.

• Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.

• Pravriddha was the son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.

• Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal.

• Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya, who later became a Brahmin.

• Vidur was the son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur Empire.

The word “Shudra” has come in Vedas around 20 times. Nowhere has it been used in a derogatory manner. Nowhere has it mentioned that Shudras are untouchable, birth-based, disallowed from study of Vedas, lesser in status than other Varnas, disallowed in Yajnas.

In Vedas, Shudra means a hard-working person. (Tapase Shudram – Yajurveda 30.5). That is why Purush Sukta calls them as the foundation of entire human society.

Since the four Varnas refer to four kinds of activities by choice, as per Vedas, the same person exhibits characteristics of the four Varnas in different situations. Everyone belongs to all the four Varnas. However, for simplicity sake, we refer to the predominant profession to be the representative Varna.

Hence, all humans should strive to be all the four Varnas to best of their capabilities, as per Vedic wisdom. This is the essence of Purush Sukta.

The Rishis like Vasisth, Vishwamitra, Angira, Gautam, Vasudeva and Kanva exhibited traits of all the four Varnas. They discovered meanings of Vedic mantras, destroyed Dasyus, did manual labor and indulged in wealth management for social welfare.

We should also emulate the same.

Summary

In summary, we see that the Vedic society considers all humans to be one single Jaati or race, upholds the dignity of labor and provides equal opportunity for all humans to adopt the Varna of their choice.

There is no element of birth-based discrimination of any manner in the Vedas.

May we all unite together as one integrated family, reject the last element of birth-based discrimination of any manner and embrace each other as brothers and sisters.

May we also thwart the designs of those who want to mislead us by making baseless claims of casteism in Vedas and destroy the criminals aka Dasyu/Daas/Rakshas.

May we all come under the shelter of Vedas and work together to strengthen the humanity as one single family.

This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/4034/caste-vedas-hi/

Vedas totally reject Caste System

Vedas and Dignity of Labor The reality of caste system – 1
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

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Sanjeev Newar
Sanjeev Newarhttps://sanjeevnewar.com
Sanjeev Newar is an eminent data scientist, entrepreneur, best-selling author, and speaker with expertise in Vedas and Sanskrit. He is an alumnus of IIT Guwahati and IIM Calcutta. He quit the corporate world to work for social inclusion and the protection of the vulnerable. For his work on Dalit inclusion and empowerment, he received the Neelkantha Award in 2019. He founded the Sewa Nyaya Utthan Foundation to make quality education accessible to vulnerable groups and marginalised communities.

249 COMMENTS

  1. EXCELLENT ARTICLE AND WILL DISPEL ANY MYTHS. I HAD MANY CONFUSIONS, BUT THANKS TO THIS ARTICLES MY CONFUSIONS HAVE EVAPORATED.

    THANKS MR. AGNIVEER, MAY ISHWAR BLESSS U WITH FURTHER AND FURTHER KNOWLEDGE.

    • Agniveerji Thank you,
      So many ancient examples you have given, I appreciate your knowledge about mythology. Now problem is, we don’t consider Mr Kalmadi Or Mr Ketan Desai as shudras even though they have looted crores of money from our pocket through the scams and saints like Guru Ravidas or Saint Tukaram were opposed till they died, as shudras even though they were much more knowledgeable and noble than any Brahmin in those days. According to the original concept of Vedas and Manusmruti why still no Brahmin respects them. That means Brahmins also are not fallowing the true Vedas and thats why today those people should not be considered even as Hindus.
      As you said the current Vedas and Manusmruti are adulterated one then why are we fallowing the adulterated things. My humble request is either you sincerely fallow the original Vedas in its pure form or today what is going to happen if we forget the Varnas, anyway it has caused most damage to our religion. That will be the best way to implement the true equality in the society.

      • Dr Avinash,

        -> Where did you find “Myth-ology” in this article ?

        -> Wherein has Agniveer said that “Vedas” are adulterated ????? Kindly don’t make your own conclusions !
        All that Agniveer has said that since Manu Smriti has been adulterated during the prolonged years of our slavery, only those sections which are in sync with the Vedas should be accepted rest discarded. For the unchangeable nature of Vedas pls refer – http://agniveer.com/2697/why-vedas-cannot-be-changed/

      • Hello Avinash,

        Your post reflects your confusion. What the article says is that the vedas do not support the caste system that is currently being practiced. It DOES NOT state that the Vedas are corrupted or adulterated – it is OUR interpretation of the Vedas that has been adulterated.

        People who are going about calling themselves “Brahmins” in today’s world are not actually brahmins in the real sense of Vedas – just because they have been born into families which had Brahmins as their ancestors, they have assumed the status of Brahmins. It is very similart to someone calling himself a doctor just because his great grandfather was a doctor by profession.

        The Vedas provide a Framework that the society is required to follow and if the society does not follow this framework, then it is not appropriate to blame the framework for this problem.

      • Throughout milleniums – during all the invasions and occupations – it was the Vedic Families of Brahmins who preserved Vedic knowledge generation after generation, from parents to children. Brahmin profession is memorizing the Veda. That you cannot do whenever you have some idea but from early childhood.
        But its not only Brahmins who have to dedicate their whole life to hard work, in this case memorizing the Veda and Vedic Literature, but also Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras have their respective duties. Niyatam kuru karma tvam – do your alloted duty says the Gita

      • Shaas, just think, we already had a no good president Pratibha Patil. What if her no good son also succeeded her?

        You say it is easier for progeny to pick up hereditary occupations since the guidance of the father is present. But this is precisely what went wrong with hinduism. How do you know the son is worthy enough to inherit the legacy of his father?

        All the 4 varnas are important. But society grades occupations based on skill and sphere of influence. In their blind hate for casteism and anti-hindu propaganda, people are suggesting all occupations are equal. If that was the case, would you suggest equal pay for the scientist and the garbage collector? No occupation is lowly, but that doesn’t imply all occupations are treated the same. There should be dignity of labour.

        I read your other comments on these forums. You say progeny are born to brahmins to experience in this lifetime certain karmas associated with being brahmins. If this wasn’t the case, they wouldn’t have been born in a brahmin household in the first place. This logic is very flawed.

        Being born in a brahmin household doesn’t mean you will experience karmas associated with brahmin lifestyle. What about Ravana, a brahmin gone wrong?

        What about Kanakadasa, a born sheperd who saw Udupi Krishna and became the highest brahmin?

      • Hi Vasudevan,
        I would like to point out few things you might have forgotten. Firstly, according to VEDA, Varnas were established by keeping two thing as the base – profession & Family-Lineage. So, If someone belongs to Hindu religion & abide by the guidelines of the religion then how one can ask such question !!! Hence, Your example of DOCTOR’s grandson will be called a doctor is wrong because DOCTOR is not a specific Caste / Varna according to VEDA.
        We all have our own right to write/response to blogs, but pls. think twice what you are trying to establish !!! Unlike other conservative religions,The Hindu religion is most progressive religion, that’s why we can debate on certain issues of the religion openly . But this kind of liberty should also have a limit.
        Here one thing I would like to mention- Hinduism & India are made for each other.Brahmins, Shudras ………. all are human beings and belong to same religion.So, to remove discrimination of the society, create reservation based on poverty & remove everything which is caste-based, because it’s existance will always keep reminding us of discrimination. Sorry, I might have moved slightly away from the main topic.

      • “Firstly, according to VEDA, Varnas were established by keeping two thing as the base – profession & Family-Lineage”

        – Can you please prove where in the Vedas it says this. Please provide the exact quote. I have read the Vedas and I found no where that Varnas is based on family lineage. Please give the exact quote and the person who translated the quote. Please provide evidence for you claim from a Hindu that translated the Vedas and states this. I want to go get that copy of the whole Vedas you claim to refer to for proof.

      • Whether Vedas preaches for varna or caste it is immaterial now. What is important is the format in which Hinduism is being followed practically. There might have been mobility upward depending on the ability of the person but with ulterior motives, Brahmins, to safegaurd the interest of their keens and kith, made the varna system a rigid one. They never recognised the good work of the non-Brahmins or even the one which opposed their terror. Those who opposed their divisive activitites were termed as low borne/Rakshas/Dasyu etc. Dear friends if our Veda do’nt preach castiesm as claimed above, then Brahmin should marry their daughters to Shudras and vice-versa.

      • @Patelbhai:

        Your first few sentences made me think you were open to being reasonable:

        Whether Vedas preaches for varna or caste it is immaterial now. What is important is the format in which Hinduism is being followed practically.

        It appears in your last sentence you have already pre-decided that the Vedas preach birth-based caste system 🙁

      • I agree with you fully Mr Nand Lal that we should be practical. In stead of merely debating on what Veda supported or rejected, we must see the present status of the society and try to make the necessary reforms. We must campaign for making a caste-less Hindu society by inter-caste marriages among the Hindus of similar social, financial and educational status. Those who refuse to do inter-caste marriage must be considered a hardcore believer of birth-based caste system.

        Pls note-that by inter-caste marriage I mean that one must search bride or groom for one’s kith and kin within the entire Hindu society in stead of searching within own caste. One need not compromise on the qualities of the bride/groom and their families, but they must be ready to accept the brides/grooms from any Hindu family regardless of their castes if the bride/groom matches their expected qualities other than caste.

        I appeal all Hindu (followers of vedic dharma) readers and authors of Agniveer to support the campaign of inter-caste marraige. Someone must establish trust, NGO, etc whose sole purpose should be to convince, motivate and help people for inter-caste marriages. If some has political power, then try to get a legislature be implemented by the various state govts and central govt to reward those who do inter-caste marriages. Bride/grooms of inter-caste marriages both be given Rs 5 lakhs each (total 10 lakhs to a couple) in their separate bank accounts as fixed deposits. This 5 lakhs should be given in five installments of Rs one lakh each at the interval of one year so as to prevent fraud and fake marriages just to grab the reward. Remaining installments should not be given if the couple get divorced or any of them dies due to any reason. The fund for such reward may be generated through various taxes, donations from NRIs, corporate sectors, other rich people of the world, etc.

      • Thanks nikhil i not fully satisfied with what u said but yeah m a girl and because of this caste system i really feel the big victim and it is just not acceptable for any body who born as a humenbeing rather to believe in this caste system..bhramins only intact their knowledge nd prosperity to themselves.thats why people have keeping very less knowledge about what agniveer has said.thankfuly i caught in such a drasticaly saided blog.
        We oll r human even if we born in some other category we had to respect.

      • Can you throw light on the manner and the rituals performed in Vedic Yagyan?. Is it the same one as depcted now in our several TV serials? Or animals even human being were sacrificed in these various Yagyans?

      • 1. Refer http://agniveer.com/3942/no-beef-in-vedas-part2/ and its first part. Animal sacrifice is against Vedas.

        2. Whom you call Brahmins are not Brahmins as per Vedas. Whom you call Shudra are no Shudra as per Vedas. If I start calling myself an astronomer, that does not make me a space traveler. And if others start accepting me as an astronomer merely because I claim to be so, then they are acting too naive.

      • Namaste Nand Lal Patel

        All these bogus allegations stem from the wrong understanding of “medha” in ashwamedha, purushamedha etc. yajnas.

        to see an actual vedic ritual, type “athiratram” in google or youtube. this an introductory documentary explaining the ritual before it was conducted in april, 2011.

        httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FISuF_kJS4A&feature=related

        here’s a detailed article explaining a vedic ritual and clarifying that IT DOES NOT INVOLVE SACRIFICES

        http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/05/13/athirathram/

      • Dear Mr. Patel,
        re. “…even human being were sacrificed in these various Yagyans”: You are mixing it up with Christianity. In the bible we read about the God who requested one of his devotees to sacrifice his son. And bible supports slavery and, in one case, the selling of one’s daughter.
        Best wishes
        Shaas

      • It is a fake essay written by someone. Brhimins are th criminals of India and Arayans invaded India.And they slowly slowly enslaved the Dravidians the originals of India. Brhimins and Arayans coperated with Brahmins for Sects or varnas, they also coined scripture in order to follow the slavery or caste system.
        The Brahmins have to be punished for their criminal activites of castism. India needs agood Hitler in order to hang all the caste providers especially the Brhmins

      • It would be considerable if you can bring any sources of your claims…
        Bring any authentic sources other than Aryan invasion theory from the British colonists…

    • ARYA SAMARPAN GEET
      Hey Ishwar kya tera diya Sundar Varna hai
      Hiro ke kimat ko jhuka de
      Aisa yeh dharma hai

      Agar Brahman Chunu toh Vedo ki mahima
      Vishwa mein faila du
      Kshatriya Chunu toh apno ka jivan
      apne prana dekar bhi raksha karu
      Vaishya Chunu toh Priyejano ke daridrata ko door karke
      unnati ko aasman ki aur bada du
      Phir agar yehi haath apne hi dharm ka vinaash kare
      Yeh rom-rom Shudratva ko grahan kare
      Mera hi samaj Mujhe hi barhishkar kare
      Toh kya apne kartavya ko chor
      Dasyuvo ki Sharan lu ?
      Are wo bhakt hi kya
      Jo kaato ke dar se bhakti ko hi chor de
      Apne Niyamo ka ullanghan karne se bhala
      apna maatha kaat
      Apne prabhu ke hawaale karu

      Manushya wo nahi jo dosh kare aur dand se bhage
      Lekin wo hain jo waapas satya ki raah le

      Thik tab ho , jab apne galti ka ehsaas karke
      Niyam ke badhe huye karma ko
      astra ki tarah uthaaoo
      Aur apne maan-sammaan aur dvijatvo ko waapas grahan karu
      O Maha-aatma(Super soul .i.e. father of all souls) ekbaar suno mere samarpan ko
      Aandhi aaye , toofan aaye , Chahe Mrityu bhi Aaye
      Tujhe kabhi na Choru
      Hey Ishwar,
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU

  4. This is excellent article. I am reading series of articles on this topic and ur every article is helping us in revealing truth. Thanks to you. I partucularly like your article exposing the evil man zakir naik and his forefathers in desert lands.

  12. Agniveer ji in this regard i paste an article by my Guru ji Swami Ramswarup ji which is very true when you read biographies of all yogis who have achieved Nirvikalpa samadhi.
    "Gotra system
    The meaning of ‘gotra’ is a path, family line, genealogy and a learned acharya on whose name the path of vansh (gotra) has been made. For-example, there was “Bhardwaj rishi” on whose name Bhardwaj gotra stands etc. Rigveda mantra 10/85/21 states that marriage of boy and girl must not be performed within gotra.

    According to Rigveda Mantra 10/85/21 marriage should always be solemnized with girl from different gotra.

    Manusmriti Shloka 3/5 states that the girl who is away from the six generations of parents is only to be married.

    As per Yajurveda mantra 31/11, God has not made any caste system. There are four classes of human beings (varannas) according to the deeds and not by birth.

    Those classes (VARNNAS) are — BRAHMIN, KSHATRIYE, VAISHYA and SHUDRA, which are changeable based on deeds. Further, human beings have made their own Gotras. It is not good to marry in the same Gotra.

    2. Vedas as well as Manusmriti do not tell about caste system by birth. Yajurveda mantra 31/11 clearly states that varnna system is based on individual pious or bad deeds. I also paste my article below-

    Four Ashrams

    There are four ashrams in the life, Brahamcharya ashram up to age of 25 years, Grihastha ashram up to 50 years, Vanprasth ashram up to 75 years and Sanyas ashram up to 100 years. So one should try to discharge his duties of every ashram knowing duties thereof and then must take sanyas, but if anybody else is interested to take sanyas being ascetic by true speech etc., then he can take sanyas even at an early age.

    I have already written about caste system (varn vyavastha). Yajurveda mantra 31/11 says that caste is based on present deeds (karmas) and not by birth. The sense of Mantra is that if a son of shudra studies Vedas, controls senses/organs and mind, does practice of Ashtang yoga, then he will be considered Brahmin and a Brahmin who has no such qualities he will be treated as shudra etc., etc. There is no caste system in Vedas based on birth and the other holy books like Manusmriti, six shastras, Upnishads, Valmiki Ramayana, Mahabharat (Bhagwad Geeta) etc., were written by ancient Rishis/Munis based on only the knowledge of Vedas, so no caste system exists therein based on birth.

    In this connection Yajurveda mantra 31/11 also says that he who knows Vedas and God, he is Brahmin being most supreme in the world like a mouth in the body. So anyone (of any caste) can be a Brahmin by hard studies of Vedas, practising Ashtang yoga therein and thus realizing God. One who has physical power in his arms, he is Kashtriye-Rajput to protect the country. So anyone can be a Rajput, holding the said qualities. One who has powers in his thighs to travel and to do hard work to establish business, he is Vaishya (businessman). One who has not studied, based on his qualities that he could not gain the qualities of Brahmin, Kashtriye and Vaishya, he is shudra (may be of any caste).

    There is a symbolic story in Mahabharat. That once Yudhistar saw that his brother Bhima was caught by a huge python. Yudhistar asked python that my brother is a great warrior having sufficient power that you could not catch him. So really you are not python, tell me, who you are. Python replied that he was a yaksha. O Yudishtar, if you would answer my question, then your brother would be released. Yaksha asked Yudhistar that if a son of Brahmin takes wine, meat, gambles and does bad deeds then whether he will be considered as Brahmin and when a shudra (lowest caste) reads Vedas, does practice of Ashtang yoga, controls his five senses, five organs and mind and does always pious deeds then whether the son of such shudra will remain shudra? Yudhistar replied that the Brahmin will be treated as shudra and shudra will be treated as Brahmin.

    King Janak called all the emperors/anybody to break the bow to prove to be the best powerful emperor amongst all to marry his daughter Sita. So King Janak did not make any objection of caste system. So was the case of marriage of Draupadi where in the dress of a Brahmin Arjuna pierced the eye of the fish with arrow and Yudhistar married Draupadi. Draupadi was daughter of Khastriye, Rajput whereas in the dress, Yudhistar was Brahmin. So qualities are to be checked either of boy or girl.

    • Madomji,
      Before praising Manusmruti blindly, read it first. In that it is very clearly maintained about who should be called as Shudra? Who should be called as Vaisha? If Bramhin married to shudra what the child should be considered? Different punishments if the same crime according to the varna, what punishments to shudra if he listens, says or sees Vedas. Also read about the writings of so called great Bramhin saint Tulsidas about shudras and women. Dont tell all mythological stories what you have heard from some Babajis. If the things what you have maintained are true then why the Bramhins who are not acting according to above maintained rules in vedas are punished. Why the well educated people like DR Ambedkar and Mahatma Fule were troubled why not according to Vedas they were not considered as Bramhins. Why for thousands of years Shudras were not having right of having education. It was only possible Dr BRA when britishers were ruling over India otherwise still that nonsense would have continued now also and even you would not have wrote this article. Thank Savitribai Fule.

      • Dear Mr. Avinash,

        Perhaps you are not a veda reader, but wrote what the preachers of Christianity say to attract tribal people. In this article more than 10 examples were given that proves the inter-changeability of profession allowed. I can show u thousands of such examples.
        The problem started when people like you followed what others said, and did not critically read and understood vedas. until Islamic invasion, girls were also going to school. In mahabharat Rukmini wrote letter to Krishna, if she would have been illiterate she wont have been able to do that.
        It is to be accepted that untouchable is a sin, and ancient Rishis always tried to keep it out of the society. Mahabharat is written to solve two problems, 1. Right of women and 2. Give equal right to Sudras.

        Read mahabharat properly, u ll find the truth.

    • Rashmi,
      Pls note that during Draupadi’s swayamwar, Karna was almost at the point of hitting the target successfully as per the condition set. But, Draupadi stopped Karna from hitting the target and openly declared that she won’t marry Karna even if he hits the target because he was a sut-putra (a caste of shudra varn) due to his birth in that family. Lord Krishna was present there, By virtue of his immense wisdom and skill, he could easily convince Draupadi and her family members that one should see the quality and virtue of the person, not the family of birth. But, on the contrary, Krishna supported Draupadi’s stand saying that the wish of the girl must be respected in case of her marriage. But, this was not a well thought wish of Draupadi to reject Karna due to his low-caste. She rejected him only because she was brought-up in a society following birth based caste system. Here Krishna appeared not like a God or someone who does justice or follows dharma, rather he behaved like a biased person who wanted to Draupadi to get married with his cousin Arjun and other pandavas that could be possible only when Karna was rejected somehow. Krishna and Rama were great people who had many divine qualities that inspire and motivate we all, but they had many weaknesses as well that must be criticized severely. I can’t consider them God.

      So, regardless of whether vedas, manu smiriti and other scriptures of vedic religion support or reject birth based caste system, it is a proven historical fact that we vedic people have been practicing birth based caste system since the time of Mahabharat, that is, since at least last five thousand years. Hence, Veda or manu smiriti have failed badly on practical basis as they couldn’t convince their followers to reject birth-based caste system. So, in stead of arguing on birth-based or education-based varn system, we must reject vedic varn system considering it confusing, error-prone and susceptible to be abused by powerful groups in their favour.

      Christians are most successful people today without following any varn system–we hindus are dependent on discoveries and inventions of Christians for science, medicine, technology, economics, administrative system, etc. So, we should stop praising those teachings (varn system) of our vedic scriptures that have given us no practical benefits, but given us lots of confusion and miseries.

      We must campaign to make a caste-less hindu society by supporting, promoting, motivating and encouraging inter-caste marriages among the families of equivalent social, financial and educational status. The irony is, most educated Hindus debate on unpractical things, and avoid talking openly on inter-caste marriages–In fact, most Hindus, including those who write articles and comments on this website, don’t want to make any practical attempt to eliminate caste system. So, dry debate is practically of no use.

      Political and financial corruption is at its height in India as public is divided in thosuands of castes. They can’t unite against a corrupt leader/officer/judge. Corrupt officer/judges/politician get full support from their own casts and supporting caste people. People sitting at responsible positions of CM, PM, other ministers, judges, police officers, bureaucrats, etc themselves are biased on caste basis–hence, there is none to check the corruption—good person won’t get support from masses as public vote on caste basis–those who get vote and win are biased, irresponsible and corrupt. Caste system has done and still doing huge damage to India. This cannot stop until we make a caste-less hindu society by making a campaign for large scale inter-caste marraige.

      • Dear Nikhil,

        what u said about the Mahabharata, is clearly true, but misunderstood by you. There are 2 points conveyed by this part of the Draupadi Swayamvar that you have mentioned.
        1. Since a birth based Shudra, and varna based Kshatriya (Karna) was allowed in the Swayamvar, and even he went to aim in the presence of Krishna and all learned Kshatriyas, and Brahmins, shows that there was no discrimination by birth. Otherwise he would not have been allowed in the first place.
        2. The bride had the right to choose anybody, even if he didn’t hit the target, and reject somebody even if he hit the target due to personal reasons, even if that was against Dharma. She did just that and that’s why all the learned Kshatriyas and Brahmins, and even Krishna.

        You know, if you have a prejudice that there is birth based system being practised, you’ll have these confusions. If birth based system was being practised, Karna wouldn’t have been a King, nor he would be in the Swayamvar, and even he would not have been insulted by calling him a Shudra.

  13. @Rashmi
    No person can become God and all actual gurus like Rishi Patanjali consider Eeshvar as guru of gurus of all times.

    • Dear Arya Ji, God reveals and originates the knowledge of vedas only at the beginning of Creation in the four most deserving souls, who had followed vedic path in previous creation but could not attain moksha. Then traditinally the knowledge of vedas is transferred through mouth to mouth. Upnishad says sushrunaam dhirannam, we have been listening vedas traditinally from Rishis who have achieved samadhi in meditation. In this creation Brahma is the first one to get this knowledge from the said four rishis, thats why purannas had symbolically depicted him having four head, this is the allegory, though false. I have asked my Guruji to provide us the reference of veda mantra reference on Guru.In this connection, I mention the following concerned mantras. As regards their meaning, it will take sometime, please wait because as you know annual yajyen for Sixty four days is being held. Samveda mantra 252, Rigveda mantra 1/144/7, Rigveda mantra 1/162/21, Rigveda mantra 1/163/2, Rigveda mantra 1/145/5, Rigveda mantra 1/145/1 and Yajurveda mantra 2/32.

  15. Not sure I agree. The Upanishads contain the moving story of Satya kama Jabali who was accepted by his Guru because he revealed his low birth without equivocation. Now, this story would be completely non-sensical unless birth based prejudice was already quite prevalent at the time of these early Upanishads.

    • 1. Upanishads are much later dated than Vedas. So the society of Upanishadic times was not completely as per Vedic norms and various distortion had crept in.

      2. However in case of Jabala, it was not a birth-based caste running from generations that made him lowly. Instead, her mother was a prostitute. Even today, if children of criminals or prostitutes come for such education, there would be bias. However, Satyakam was honest enough to reveal his identity. Yet he was accepted because of his truthfulness. Though the deeds of her mother made her an outcaste, yet opportunities were open for Jabali to become a Rishi mastering spiritual sciences. When son of a prostitute could be given entry to Vedic learning, there is no reason to believe that children of Shudras would be debarred from it. This shows that even till Upanishadic times, birth-based caste system was not prevalent.

      • I agree that that is what the Upanishad tale is claiming. But as I said before, surely the tale is making a point that needs to be made! If the tale said, Satya Kama Jabali was a son of a Brahmin and **still** was accepted by his Guru, that'd be hilarious. Anyhoo, since you accepted that some distortion had crept in at the time of the Upanishads, this points need not be belabored.

        I want to ask you something else. Of course, if it is indeed true that the Vedic age was meritocratic, that must be pointed out, and defended from distortion. But for arguments sake, let's assume that it's not. Would that be so terrible for Hinduism? Surely, what separates Hinduism, specially from the monotheisms, is its openness to re-examine even fundamental issues. Some Upanishads claim themselves to be higher form of knowledge than the Vedas proper. Whether or someone agrees with that point of view is unimportant, what is obvious that such radical statements can be made within the Hindu fold.

      • 1. While Vedic Dharma allows for liberty of thought, that would not imply that counter-views are embraced without any examination. If that be so, it no more remains a science.

        2. The difference, I would say, is that as per Vedas, those holding counter-views are not cursed into hell or murdered or forced to live as second-grade citizens or pay any additional tax. However that also does not imply that we start accepting unverified theories in our curriculum.

        3. Hinduism is not the word I am comfortable with.That is a later aberration. I prefer to use Vedic dharma, which states that truth should prevail. Vedas form the foundation of Dharma, and no upanishad or other text can claim supremacy over Vedas. They merely elaborate further on certain topics of Vedas. But still if one believes so, for whatever reasons, that does not create a problem because liberty of thoughts is promoted, to extent it does not damage the social fabric.

        4. Nowadays it has become a fashion to challenge the most fundamental foundations of Vedic dharma without any evidence or logic, merely to show openmindedness or serve one's own prejudices. This is certainly worth condemnation. That is one of the objectives of this site – to dispel such myths and bring true picture of Dharma to fore.

      • Alright.

        You said "…the most fundamental foundations of Vedic dharma without any evidence or logic". Fair enough. Now, as a matter of principle, would you accept changes to foundational aspects of Vedic dharma if they had evidence or logic? Please note that I am not talking about caste system now, just trying to understand if this is possible in principle.

      • Aa No Bhadra Kratavo Yanthu Vishvataha (Let noble thoughts flow into your mind from all sides — Rig Veda). So, there is no reason why we should not be accepting things which are good for the humanity as a whole and discarding the ones that might otherwise pose a danger. But be specific about any particular verse of the Vedas that are objectionable or are contrary to the spirit of above stated verse.

      • Don't have any, but who knows, one day we might. The question is whether or not Vedic Dharma (since Hindusim isn't an acceptable term) an open or closed system.

  16. I feel Jagadish that what we really need to do is to preach the truth and the truth is that the caste system in the present form is a demonized version of the vedic caste system, which was merely a division of labor and certainly not a division of society.

  21. Please tel me who wrote the four vedas Bhagwan Vishnu or Maharishi Vyas? Among the all Varna Brahmin is considered as more superior than the other ones. They reserve all rights for themselves and a very little is left for the other for ex-: Knowledge of Vedas is only for Brahmin, Kshtriyas is responsible for ruling only and that too with consultation from rajpurohit, Vyashya for trade and shudras are for all humiliating activity like slaughtering. Further varna is not adopted by choice but by birth.
    While Maharishi Vyas is a Brahmin. Readers evaluate yourself
    "while caste system is not described in vedas but the varna is… and the vedas are written by brahmin." No one knows the real facts including me that how this vedas came into existence its only a mythology. But yes following the positive facts and points of these vedas and geeta one can live a happy life described as "saatwik jivan"

    • Hi Rubul,

      You seem to have some issues with the requirement that the “Vedas are written by Brahmins” – even after it has been clarified that Brahmins are not determined by birth but by their qualification. This is quite funny. Would you object to the fact that you get treated only by doctors when you fall sick? Or that only engineers get to build your home when you get one constructed? Would you want a professor of history to treat a cancer patient? Or a lawyer to design and build your home?

      When you go to a University to get a PhD, you can not just like that write something and claim to have completed your research thesis. You need to spend several years under the guidance of a well qualified and recognized “guide” whose blessings are needed for you to create the thesis. Then your thesis has to be circulated to several other scholars for a “peer review” and they have to bless your theory in turn. Finally you get to defend your thesis after which only, you would get a Doctorate. Whether you like it or not, this is how one gets to become a Doctor. This is the “caste system” of today’s world. Try arguing with a University to change this system !

      I am sure the group of people who composed the Vedas had some such system of “peer review” among them. What is so bad about it?

  22. @smarttamil
    Namaste,
    We neither call him Brahmin nor Kshatriya. In fact he, along with his companions, is called "Rakshas".

    • Indeed! And we need your support to help it reach everyone you know! It has to become a mass movement. Please be a partner in this yajna.

      Dhanyavad
      Angira
      AEB

  24. This is what i have heard from a scholar (Dr.K.S.Narayanacharya).
    As the article says, 'caste' is not equivalent to neither 'jaati' nor 'varna'. But considering here caste as varna for easy usage.
    Indeed there was a 'caste SYSTEM' in Vedas, but not 'casteISM'. i.e. 'jaati paddati' was there but not 'jaateeyate' (jaateeyate is casteism in kannada). Having 'system' for anything is not bad. But 'ism' is bad.

    Taking a company as an example, to run the company, there has to be Managers, employees, directors etc. This is a system. Based on individual talent, they can reach any post including upto CEO. But ism is something like, manager son is also manager, director son is also director etc..

    So it is always better to know the difference between 'caste system' and 'casteism' clearly.

    This is a very good site though. Will propogate this site within my circle.

  25. go back to vedas the original scriptures that’s what dr zakir naik says( this he says to muslims also), you are not the first one to say so brother put all efforts for the true light of vedas to illuminates, and the world get the insight of hinduism before it is too late. all my best wishes for you.

    • Hi Jacob,

      Our telling “go back to the basics of Vedas” and dr. zakir naik’s telling his followers “go back to the basics of quran” are as far apart as cheese and chalk. What the quran preaches is pure hatred and ignorance – so it would not have the same effect as going back to the basics of the Vedas.

      This is one analogy we can very well do without.

  26. SIMPLE LOGIC WILL EXPOSE THE HINDU CASTE SYSTEM PROPAGANDA OF CHRISTIAN/MUSLIM/COMMUNIST. RAMAYANA was written by VALMIKI who in present day context is DALIT he praised LORD RAM. LORD KRISHNA is from YADAV community who is OBC/SC in present caste system even Brahmins worship HIM without seeing his caste. SO HOW COME THERE IS CASTE SYSTEM IN HINDU RELIGION

  27. i think ur site is not giving correct information regarding manusmriti & vedas. don’t know why but may b to mislead peaple. pls read once again. go to the depth and help people to understand. we’ve to educate people & make unity. there r 6000 castes in inidia. each one is indifferent to others. we r suppose to change the system for everyones benefit. others r also reading books. pls give right information for god’s sake. be brave, tell the facts….

    • @dr. rahul sawant
      Please specify where did you find the incorrect information regarding Manusmriti and Vedas on the site which is misleading the people.

    • dr.rahul sawant…6000 castes are made by men..and where there are human beings there will be differences.Mr Agniveer is brave enough to put the facts infront of us…he must be doing lots of research before stating anything on the site.This is a revolution and we must join hands for a better future.

  28. This article makes no sense at all. From my point of view Vedas are fake stories and entertainment for other parties. Article heading says “No casts in Vedas” but while reading article vedas are completely follower of Casts. They talked about Manusmiti but in two lines. OK I follow you God, Brahmin, and Khatriya birth exaplanation but it can not be hidden that Manusmiti is strongly support casts and insulted all jaatis except Brahmins. Manusmriri should be completely banned because it is dangerous than Madarasa (Muslim) teaching work. People who have commented and pointed some weblinks, all those websites are created and strongly supported by Brahmins only. This website is basically buttering other casts to believe in Vedas and make to fool or suffer them later on. I do understand Ramayana and Mahabharat had wriiten originally by different casts as POAM (or story only) but it later had been altered by Brahmins and published so wisely to look thiese are true stories. In today’s date Ram mandir issue started happening which was created by Brahmins only. Till today more than 70,000 people died so far in this issue but none of them was Brahmin. People will have to understand if Ram mandir will get built then only and only “Brahmin” will eat fruit. So all in all Vedas are stupid stories and should not be followed at all.

    • @shashtriji,

      So, if your upper ceiling isn’t working properly and you can’t comprehend, the article becomes senseless !! Badhiyaan hai !!

      1. Wherefrom did you conclude that vedas are fake stories and entertainement for other parties?? Have you ever peeped into the vedas or just blabbering by reading some books of DN Jha and Romila Thapad. Kindly enlighten the netizens of the basis of your “point of view”.
      2.Wherein did you find in this article that vedas talk about caste-System??
      3. It has clearly said in many of the posts that manusmriti has been highly corrupted and only those verses which are in tandem with vedas are to be followed, reast discarded. But again, you will have to open up your upper ceiling for that !!
      4.Enlighten us with the basis of your understanding that ramayan and mahabharat are mere “POAMS” !!
      5. For your other idiotics, I would first like to know from you that what do you understand by the word “brahmins”??

    • Dear Shastriji,
      Actually if you consider superficially you may get convinsed about presence of caste system in Vedas. Whole confusion has started because of four Varnas were considered as Castes (Jati) and although maintained but vernas were not given so much importance in Vedas. because initially they were interchangeable according to Karma. It was Manu who out of selfishness and greed to rule over the other varnas who made this as a rule. It is like the word KAFIR in Kuran is considered as people from other religion by Taliban for timely benifit but it actually means ADHARMI not Pardharmi . That habit was continued because higher Varnas were getting benefited at the cost of basic Human rights of shudras. But this is the high time we should unite and oppose this nonsense where ever it is other wise Shudras will (should) leave this beautifull religion because of some mad so called upper caste people.

      • Dear Dr Avinash

        Kindly do not blame Manu. The original Manu Smriti has been grossly tampered with to include casteist and many other foolish concepts. If you read Manu Smriti, you can very easily locate such discrepancies. Casteist verses almost everywhere appear out of context. There are several verses in Manu Smriti which debunk caste system by birth.

      • Dear Agniveerji,
        Where ever there is nonsense in Manusmruti, let us assume that it is the tampered portion. It is your greatness that you accept that it is wrong but it is the fact that every body is believing in that so called tampered portion and behaving also according to it, otherwise our great religion would not have been defamed like this, we would not have to make the laws against conversions, whole situation would have been very different.
        I think you will have to agree this otherwise you can recall whether you and your all relatives have got their caste identity according to their Karma or Janma. You can ask this questions to all priests in the temples and let me know if you get a single case according to your above maintained Vedas and Manusmruti.

      • Even in Manu Smrithi, nowhere is it mentioned that the son of a Brahmin automatically becomes a Brahmin, Manu Smrithi provides a detailed “process hand-book” on how one qualified oneself to be a Brahmin or Kshathriya or Vaishya. It is true that a lot of verses have been interpolated into Manu Smrithi which have introduced contradictions. One needs to discard such verses.

  29. The brahmins and oother upper castes would be happy if they are made SC/STs in today’s India for getting reservation benefits. Even the Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims want reservation benefits!!

    • I think Abhijeet resides in metro city thats why he is talking like this. I request you to go to rural areas where 90% of the shudras population is residing and see how they are still being treated particularly in Bihar, UP, Rajasthan, Madhya pradesh, Gujrat, Odisa, and Asaam.
      By the way, why don’t you or your brothers marry with shudra girl so that at least your siblings will get benefits of reservations at the cost of torture and humiliation. Just imagine once, your son or daughter carrying others excreta thoghout her life, how you will feel. Think shudras are made to do such various inhuman, intolerable activities for thousands of years.
      Untouchability is the oldest psychological disorder of the Hinduism, this is the fact but untill we accept this reality that disease is not going to be get cured. Many people including Mahatma Phule and Swami Vivekanand and also Swatantryaveer Savarkar tried their level best but in vein.
      The only doctor who could make the difference was Dr B R Ambedkar that also when Hindus weren’t rulers. This he could do only through reservations which is not to snatch anybodies rights but to give Shudras their own rights. There was no other possible way because almost all upper caste people were (and are) suffering from this deadly (psychological) disease. The situation is so dangerous that patients do not want to take the treatment because they do not agree that there is something wrong with them and also they do not want Shudras also to wear the shield of reservation so that the same nonsense will be continued.

      • The way the caste system is being practiced today in India is certainly shameful, to say the least. But we should stop blaming the Vedas for this malice and accept responsibility that those who are practicing and supporting this evil practice are doing it without any sanction from Vedas. A social evil is being projected into the basic tenets of the Vedic system, which is amounting to a display of contempt for the Vedic teachings.

  30. Shri. Agniveerji

    I thank you very much as you clarified most of my doubts that had in my mind. But still there are some queries i need to get clarified. As said in this article, if there is no caste division described on birth basis in vedas, then people of those period must have got their education as birth rights, if that was happened in those days, then Why in Mahabaratha Karna was refused by his Guru for education?

    Society & I will be thankful to you if we get clarified about these kind of queries, which also lead to better understanding about hindu dharma.

      • You are partly right. Karna was not refused education by Dronacharya but it was Ekalavya who was refused. And the reason was, that Dronacharya had promised Arjuna that he would train him to be the BEST ARCHER in the whole world and Dronacharya had to honour this promise he had made to Arjuna.

        Karna’s case is different – he went directly to Parashurama for his education – but in a deceptive manner. Parashurama had taken a vow to destroy all Kshatriyas of the world and had refused to teach any Kshatriya – and vowed to teach only Brahmins. Karna went to Parashurama with the false claim that he was of a Brahmin descent. The rest is known history.

        I do see a problem with the above story however. This shows that Parashurama had discriminated among his prospective students based on their birth. And Parashurama was supposed to be an Avatar of Mahavishnu.

        Though I do not have an answer to how Parashurama could have taken a vow that required the breach of Vedic tenets (that all human beings should be treated as equal irrespective of their birth), I would assume that individual teachers had the discretion to determine whom they would teach and whom they could refuse. This is the same basis on which Dronacharya could have refused studentship to Ekalavya.

      • Parashurama is not discriminating. Kshatriyas had killed his father. So he was their sworn enemy. He wouldn’t part with his knowledge to them.

        Parashurama is avatar of Narayana. Ara=defects, Na+ara=no defects, Narayana=one who has no defects.

        So it is silly to assume that Narayana, who is all knowing, was defective in his avatars. Parashurama very well knew who Karna was. But he taught him coz otherwise the Mahabharata wouldn’t occur. Duryodhana had confidence to challenge Pandavas only because Karna was on his side.

        Remember that all epics are lilas. If you observe carefully, Vishnu in his 3 avatars (Parashurama, Krishna and Vyasa) regulates the entire story.

        Vyasa is the father of the kurus through niyoga. If not for this, the story wouldn’t have started in the first place.

        Parashurama taught 3 people involved in the war: Bhishma, Drona and Karna. All 3 were on the side of Kauravas and Duryodhana could start the war thinking he could defeat pandavas with these mighty warriors on his side.

        Krishna was the savior for the virtuous. If not for him, Pandavas wouldn’t have won.

  31. hello sir,
    your explanations & interpretations of vedas are excellent. Though i’m very new to this forum & this sort of discussions. I would like to point out few things. I don’t want accept with your notion of ‘going back to vedas’
    1. Do you agree with me that Vedas were supposed to be written many centuries ago ? (I’m sorry if you believe them to be divine)
    2. If so, Perhaps the problems that their societies faced, do they have relevance in this present generation (especially this era of Information Overburden) ? Though the basic premises of the problems of all societies appear to be same, picking out solutions to our present day problems from those ancient texts can have different connotations.
    3. Are the intellectual capabilities of the present generation anyway less than our forefathers who lived many centuries back ?
    4. Why do you try to provide legitimacy to those texts which were written not for our society. Instead I want you to project alternate suggestions to the Caste & Communal Prolems of the present day society in an original sense (have we lost our original thinking ?) . This forum is is no doubt creating a good debate, But why do you people fight over the legitimacy of those texts, instead pick the basics from the so-called sacred texts & mould them to today’s societal demands.
    And finally, I’m sorry if I have offended any of you guys (though unintentionally). You are definitely great & I admire your intellectual capabilities. have a good time.. bye

    • Namaste

      Answering point by point:

      1. Vedas are oldest texts of humanity and preserved in impeccable manner. We consider them divine because there can be no other explanation for human life and its knowledge.

      2. The subjects of Vedas are beyond restrictions of time and society. They provide knowledge that is equally applicable to all times and geographies and yet be beneficial for humanity. Thus when we seek solutions from Vedas, they are the most relevant. It is only later day solutions that create further problems for future because of their inherent short-sightedness. 99% of problems today are merely solutions of some other problems that we tried to solve yesterday.

      3. Definitely, it is very less. In general we have lost a sense of purpose and holistic thinking. We don’t create solutions but problems for tomorrow that are commercialized for short term gains. And after all the toys we have created in name of science, the basic challenges remain the same. We ultimately die and thats end of game. All that modern intellectuals do is to create timepass toys for a short journey and in process they forget their ultimate goal.

      Our ancient Rishis were much smarter and they created solutions that enable us to understand our purpose in this extremely short life and then move ahead in planned manner.

      Remember that if this life is end of everything, then everyone is at same level and whatever effort or intellect anyone demonstrates is equally waste. You can no way then compare any two persons who do their time-pass in different manners and then die. But if this is not end of file, then what modern generation is doing is largely utter foolishness compared to the first generation.

      4. Vedas provide original thinking. Unless you link anything with original purpose, there can be no solution to any problem. Our attempts to solve these issues like Caste, Terrorism has only made matters worse or replaced them with even graver problems. The reason is simple – if I believe in modern approach of believing in this life alone and nothing beyond, then there is no incentive for me to reform the society and make sacrifices. I am better off enjoying my life, raping, killing, looting etc and maximizing my fun here.

      But if there is life beyond (which is logically obvious to a non-indulgent person), one has to explore the purpose in most genuine manner and ensure that all actions and all solutions he or she seeks in life are in sync with that purpose. And hence study of Vedas becomes necessary.

      5. Tell me one single reason why anyone should reject casteism or terrorism or corruption as per ‘modern’ thinking that refutes existence of life hereafter or considers that a non-issue, when that benefits me as a power hungry politician?

      You don’t offend us, because taking offence does not lead us anywhere. We firmly believe that Vedas alone possess solutions for human beings that remain unchanged over ages and across societies. All other attempts would only lead to future problems.

      Admin

  32. thanks guys for posting the exiting articles.and creative debates. as a vaisnav i strongly believe vedas is divine because of it,s spiritual meaning and and purity, but the sri geeta shows us the best way of living for all times present and future. Modern word is of karma and we must add vakti and gayan in it to get the fall(moksha). i do appreciate more writings on geeta and its explanation from agniveer.

    thanks

  33. It is heart warming to hear that there are lines to support that our religion does not support caste system but I’d like to know the interpretations of certain lines from our scriptures which could be taken out of context to prove everyone that it is very caste centric or a chauvinistic male dominated religion

    Take the lines of the Gita 9.32

    It says

    Bhagavad Gita 9.32
    O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth — women, vaiśyas and śūdras, can attain the supreme destination. (Lower Birth??)

    In what way is women considered to be lower birth

    Rig-Veda 8-33-7
    Women are fickle minded. Never believe them. Friendship with a women is just like friendship with a wolf.

    Manusmriti 4.206
    Sacrifices performed by women are inauspicious and not acceptable to god. They should therefore be avoided.

    The reason why I quote these is obviously not to denigrate our religion.This site looks like a place where there are quite a lot of knowledgeable people out here.I just want to see if any of you here can give a good explanation for these lines

    But regardless of whether these lines show a bias or not, I like my religion, there are too many positive things that simply outweighs all the negatives(if it is proven true)

    • Hello Causality,

      Good point, pertinent questions, but unfortunately I do not have an answer. There are quite a few Manthras that raise such controversial points and which are not in consonance with the teachings of the Vedas found elsewhere. There is a general consensus that there has been a lot of interpolation over the ages (meaning, new verses that were not part of the original set of verses, inserted subsequently, with an ulterior motive or with a different agenda) and such verses could usuall be attributed to such interpolation.

      To state whether a given verse is actually an interpolation or not would require a great deal of research. My simple rule of thumb has been to apply the principle of non-contradiction – wherever a contradiction is found that is not in consonance with the overall message of the Vedas, I would ignore it as a “possible interpolation” and just ignore it.

    • @Causility : in BG it does not say Lower Birth it says “PapaYoni” in that mantra and it relates to karma and has nothing to do with lower birth as understood by most.

      One may see that the woman “body” has to undergo more physical suffering in a lifetime than that of a male “body”, would one not ask why is it so?
      Once an individual if fully enlightened, then the body does not matter, this mantra talks about the people who are yet to reach the destination

      the authentic scriptures have to be understood and everything has to be seen in the light of the Veda, then only things fall in place.

      can yo pin point the mantra from Rg veda coz i could not find it in Mandal 8 sukta 33 and mantra 7

      http://aryasamajjamnagar.org/rugveda_v4/rugveda.htm
      (click on page 47 in lower bar, once on this link)

      Cannot Comment on Manusmurit, it has been corrupted

      om Tat Sat

      • Whew, that’s really huge….To be honest I’m not well versed in Sanskrit but I was given these quotes by someone else in a discussion forum called Yahoo answers

        hmm…so women are referred as papayonis because of bad karma since sufferings are a direct result of bad karma?

        But I was actually in another discussion forum where one guy was saying, when Lord Krishna mentioned papyonis, he dint say

        papayonis ,for example women
        or papayonis i.e women

        he was saying that its like ” papyonis, women” and not “papayonis,eg. women”

        But thanks for your thoughts on this 🙂

      • Very good observation. In the Gita is, indeed, not written that papayaonis are women. It is just enumeration and all of them are fit to get enlightenment. And if they can, even the Brahmans who are concerned purely with Vedic wisdom should be easily able to reach enlightenment.

    • Did you know who have written this?
      It is written by the western people i.e. Max Muller.

      Max muller completed translation of vedas during 19th century.

      Muller wrote a letter to his wife, dated 1886, in which he said “The translation of the
      Veda will hereafter tell to a great extent on the fate of India and on the growth of
      millions of souls in that country. It is the root of their religion, and to show them what
      the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the
      last 3,000 years.”

      There was also a letter written by stephen knapp about true postion of women in vedic culture.It can be found here:-
      http://www.stephen-knapp.com/women_in_vedic_culture.htm

      I have one more site which exposes the false manusmriti written by Western scholars.

      http://hinduwisdom.info/Women_in_Hinduism.htm

  34. Also what about this kind of scenario, lets says a person is very intelligent, very disciplined,has immense self control,has high moral but likes to do labor work, then is he Brahmin or Shudra or both?

    • An individual can be everything,one can be a brahmin,kshatriya, vaishya and shudra. they are just facets of the society
      eg. if i am living my life discerning vedic knowledge to people i am a brahmin (else not),if i defend my country then i am kshatriya, if i do business i am vaishya and if i do chores work for the society i am shudra

  35. If It is a fact abotu the caste than why the caste system is here in india. why only Brahmanas can read VEDAS, Why Brahman, Akshtriya, vaishya and Shudras are there. why the others can’t read them. Caste based politics is here in india. Marrigegs are also caste based in Aryasamaj also. it will be too good if we will adopt the vadic path in our life also.

    Dr.Sudhir Kumar Arya.

    • Please read Vedas at http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org, no one is going to stop you from accessing net. Anyone can buy Vedas from the book centers and no one is going to ask one’s so called caste. Many Muslim Maulanas after converting to Vedic Dharm became scholars of Vedas. So its not right to repeat it again and again that only Brahmin can read Vedas. Yes, there might be a few people who think they have copyright over Vedas but who cares? Vedas are for all and everyone should read and follow it.

      Thanks

  37. Dear Agniveer,

    I must thank you sincerely for the through research done by you before embarking on the task to write article on such a contenious issue. Honestly, I would have bypassed your article as just another one among hundreds of others on internet on similar topics promulgating their own viewpints. But, the timely references from puranas compelled me to give a serious thought on the validity of the text.

    Thanks again.

  40. You ideas could be good. But you clearly show that you lack understanding of Sanskrit and you all ideas are based on English translation. Can you quote Sanskrit text in Devanagari to all the points you have made. I am not against the point you have made, I just wanted to see whether you can cite the actual text of Vedas or not.

    • Namaste Rama

      References are given with each Mantra, you can check yourself the Sanskrit text from Vedas Samhitas.

      What is your qualification in Sanskrit?

      Which English translator Agniveer have based their meanings on?

      What can you do if Agniveer show/do not show the text? Will you start believing/disbelieving Vedas?

      • Namaste Vajra!
        I am a firm believer of Vedic Sanatan Dharma. My qualification in Sanskrit has nothing to do with Agniveer’s. Meaning he shows are somehow derived from the Western and Some indian translators. It doesn’t matter whether he does shows text or not ? I just want to see the Sanskrit text with check whether the meaning he progpragates are in sync with actual Sanskrit text or not ? That’s it.

        BTW: When you asked this question “Will you start believing/disbelieving Vedas?”, shows that you have some hidden doubts in Vedas ?

      • @Rama:

        I am a firm believer of Vedic Sanatan Dharma.

        Maybe. Yet, the following conclusion after a handful of back-and-forth messages seems incongruous given the statement above:

        Arguing with a semi-literate idiot is useless.

        I dont know where you are headed. It is completely unclear from your questions. But if you want to turn this into an Advaita/Dvaita/Visishtadvaita debate, may I suggest looking elsewhere on the web?

      • @Rama:

        You first started the argument. And you have to supply the counter proofs if you have any.Declaring agniveer as semi-literate is like fox-grapes story.

        >>Arguing with a semi-literate idiot is useless.

        It may be usefull to an idiot,like me, and it will be usefull to my muslim brothers who want to defend agniveer.

        Could you please tell us what is “usefull” and what is “useless” according to you?. Also clearly state what are you trying to gain by discussing about vedas?

      • I am out. Gang of idiots or the same idiot by different username. My question is for Agniveer who I think has the capacity to understand it ?

      • You dont need to doubt that Vajra and adolf are the same.

        If you see the comments here they easly convey that I (adolf ) does not have any knowledge of vedas or quran whereas vajras has good knowledge of both.

        Agniveer being a site owner will have many questions to answer and you have to wait for your answer. For now you can assume that the source of agniveers vedas cannot be much different from the books recommended by this site.

        I am very happy that being a dumb idiot I am discussing about vedas with a Ghana patha like yourself.

      • @Rama

        hey prick, why can’t you ask it in ‘Ask Agniveer’ section? Can’t you see that in right side sorner of the home page? gobshite

  43. Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high.
    Where knowledge is free.
    Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
    By narrow domestic walls.
    Where words come out from the depth of truth.
    Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection.
    Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
    Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit.
    Where the mind is led forward by Thee
    Into ever-widening thought and action.
    Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
    Rabindranath Tagore

  44. ” avidhom shchiva vidoscha brahmano divatham “(narada smrithi 9:317)

    “A brahmin, whether he scholar or madman, believe that he is god”

    ” dushelo pi dhijo pujanitho shudro jidendriya “(parashra smrithi 8:33)

    “a brhmin Butcher is better than scholar shudra ”

    “A Brahmin equal to god, they must forcefully suppress the lower cast people make them their slaves” (manusmrithi 9:317)

    ” shakthanopi hishudrana na karyo dhan sanjaya “(manusmrithi 10:129)

    “shudra no right to education (Veda) and earn money”

    ” visrabdham brahmana srudad dravyo padanama charathe nahi thasyakthi kinjith swom barthey harodhanohisa “(manusmrithi 8:417)

    “If they (shudra) have any asset, Brahmin must forcefully recapture the entire asset from shudra”

    “If shudra talk against the Brahmin suddenly cut his Tongue, if he try to beat (action is enough) to Brahmin by his hand or leg, Brahmin suddenly cut that (hand or leg) body part as soon as possible “(manusmrithi 8:279-283)

    golwaker says about manusmrithi “this is the social law that world ever and never saw like that. None of principle likes it.”
    (Golwaker: From the Red fort grounds)

    From bagavath geetha Krishna says that”i create four castes for different quality and duty. ” chathur varnyam maya srishtom guna karma vibagasha “(bagvath geetha 4:13)

    Krishna says “different cast have different duty “(bagvath geetha 8:41-45)

    “When a Brahmin killed the shudra jailed him one year and 12 cow penalty. But in case of shruda killed the Brahmin punishment was different killed him three short period with fire”
    (gowthama dharmasuthram Ibid page-95)

    “The Hindu Veda and Upanishath never give permission to shudra, women and other low cast Hindu, to prey temple and study the Veda and science”
    (Indian Express 4-4-1988)

    “If a shudra walking with Brahmin, beat him with scourge. if he steal kill him(punishment of Brahmin only bind his eye with cloth one or two hours).if he have desire to sexual affection with Brahmin girl, first cut his sexual organ, then capture his asset, then kill him. If he hearing the Veda captures him, cut the Tongue, pour the melted lead to his ear. ”
    (Swami krishnanada: aparthed system in India page 93-95)

    NB:These verses indicate that ‘Brahmin’ is not belongs to his ‘karma’, it belongs to his ‘janma’.we can see from Upanishad “born Brahmin yoni” and “born shudra yoni”.

    Hindu religious scriptures, however, do give out the call to violence and injustice. For instance, in the Kaushithaki Brahmanopanishad Indran is quoted as saying, “Na’Mathravadena na Pithravadena nasthayena na broona hathys nasya paapam chana chakrasho mukaneelam vetheethi (3:1)
    (Even if my people were to kill their mother and father; even if they were to steal and to practice infanticide; even if they were to commit such sins, they are to feel no remorse. Their faces should never be down-cast)

    During the period of Ramayana Brahmin never died their lives. A Brahmin visits the palace of Rama; his complaint was that his son died. Raman discuss his pundit acharya,they know that a shudra(Shambukan)Penance for getting heven.Raman cut his head at mean time Brahmin boy got his life.

    What we saw from the story is Raman was an ideal person?

    There is nothing that is despicable in the legal prescription
    Of the Qur’an. However, in some of the other religious scriptures there is a clear distinction between a person of a higher caste and another of a lower caste. For example, consider the punishment prescribed by the Manu Smrithi for insult and abuse: “ The punishment for the Kshatriya who insults the Brahman is one hundred coins; for the Vaishya it will be two hundred coins and for the Shudra it will be the whip. If the Brahman were to insult the Kshatriya his punishment would be fifty coins, if he insults the vaishya it would be twenty five coins and if the Shudra, twelve coins ”
    (Manu Smrithi 8:267, 268)

    Slavery existed in ancient India as a part of the rigid caste system that prevailed here. The caste system which originated as a result of the hegemony of priesthood continued to be an essential part and way of life of Hinduism. It is in the Rig Veda which is accepted as the most important of the Shrutis that we find the first seeds of the concept of caste system. (Purusha verse of the Rig Veda 10:90:12).It was but natural that under the caste system that was based on the reference in the Rig Veda that “the Brahman is created from the head, the Vaishya from the hands and the Sudra from the feet of the Parampurusha”, the Brahman was considered highly and the Sudra of a lowly stature. All the books of Hinduism have only sought to justify the caste system.

    The Bhagavath Gita, which is known to be the book of shruthi of modern Hinduism, has itself said: “Chaturvarnyam Mayasrishtam guna karma Vibagusha
    ” (4:13). this means that, “I have created the four castes according to the division of their deeds.” It was natural then that the one who was created from the feet of God was destined to a life of foot-service alone. Indeed, it was believed that the sudra was specially created for the very purpose of service alone. The religious scriptures had taught that one is born of a lower caste owing to the sins of an earlier life and that if one is to attain salvation at least in the next life, he is to render service to those of the higher castes and employ himself in keeping them satisfied in this life.“Shreyan swdarmo viguna para dermal swanushtithal swdarmea nidanam shreya paradarmo bayavaha” (bagavath geetha 3:35). The Chandoupanishad has compared those of the lower caste to pigs
    And dogs. From the Upanishath we can understand that ‘chandalan’ and ‘shudra’are equal to street dogs. (Chandokya Upanishath 5:10:7). A reading of the Manusmrithi and the Parasharasmrithi will serve to show that the attitude and conduit adopted towards them was crueler and wicked than that shown to the animals.

    Observe the punishment prescribed by the Apasthamba Dharma Sutra:“The Sudra who kills a Brahman must be burnt to death slowly by immersing him thrice in fire. However, if a Sudra is killed by any, it would be sufficient to award one year imprisonment and a fine of twelve cows as penalty.” (As quoted by Krishnananda Swami in ‘The Caste-Wars in India’, P.94)

    All the laws in the ManuSmrithi are, in their formulation, based on the caste system. This deplorable tendency is evident throughout the laws which sanctify the position of the Brahman while, at the same time, debase that of the Sudra.Wide disparity exists in the punishment prescribed for a
    Brahman who commits a crime and the punishment for a Sudra who commits the similar one. Briefly then, these laws were not framed for the whole of humanity; they are meant for a society wherein caste system prevails.

    • Did you know who have written this?
      It is written by the western people i.e. Max Muller.

      Max muller completed translation of vedas during 19th century.

      Muller wrote a letter to his wife, dated 1886, in which he said “The translation of the
      Veda will hereafter tell to a great extent on the fate of India and on the growth of
      millions of souls in that country. It is the root of their religion, and to show them what
      the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the
      last 3,000 years.”

      There was also a letter written by stephen knapp about true postion of women in vedic culture.It can be found here:-
      http://www.stephen-knapp.com/women_in_vedic_culture.htm

      I have one more site which exposes the false manusmriti written by Western scholars.

      http://hinduwisdom.info/Women_in_Hinduism.htm

      AS YOU CAN SEE MANY FEMALE GOD’S IN HINDUISM.WHAT DOES THIS INDICATE?

  45. @Shabeer: Perhaps these are the only verses you know, and I know from where these are copied. You are just copying the same text to all the posts of Agniveer. And it is also clear that you don’t know any thing Vedic Philosophy, other wise you could have easily known what is Shruti and what is Smriti. And your attitude is very clear, you don’t want to understand the truth.

    Man, in entire Vedas, you won’t find any word at par with Slaves. In Islam you will find a word par with slave, the master can rape them, they can not raise question, they will not be paid for their service, they can be sold in the markets like an animal, they can be bitten.

    You will find slaves in Christianity too.

    But so far as Shudras are concerned, you have to pay them for the services they will render, you can not rape them, you can not beat them, you can not sell them in the market…. So, they are not slaves as said in Islam or Bible.. They are human like us.

    You have quoted a chapter from Rig Veda, the Purusha Suktam, and quoted the translation made by a christian preacher, which has been proved to be wrong translation.

    In the said Chapter, it is said that, Adi Purusha offered himself to the Yajna, and his mouth became Brahmins, Hands became Khatriyas, similarly feet became Shudras. It is very clear that is if you see the whole universe as a human, shudras are the feet.. And without foot the unverse can not even walk…

    But you fools always try to find out any mistake in Vedas to feel happy that you fools are superior.. If you can find the quote in Vedas that creates difference, cant you see the quoran whgich contents only hatred among people nothing else ??? Go and read your quoran, and if you cant find any mistake there, you are not a human.. Because you are devoid of any sort of logic.

  46. @ Shabeer : Even after reading the above post, if you are bearing the same concept regarding Hinduism, then you are nothing but a fool, who is not able to see the truth.

    And keep those stupid thoughts with you,

    @Agniverr : I thought this site is for those persons who want to know the truth.. I don’t understand what such fools are doing here.. Hope you will not allow such fools to come amongst the truth seekers..

  47. 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line — below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 per cent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 per cent higher than the all-India figure.

    There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562, Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled Tribes Rs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.

    Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

  48. There is no such thing as Brahminism. There is only the pernicious, brutal creed of Churchism that is based on an ancient hoax. Every ideology that originated from barren lands lying to the West of India — Islam, Xianity, Communism — is soaked in human blood. These races had no tradition or training in spirituality. All they could invent in its name were these monsters.

    Churchism is propagated by a self-perpetuating, self-aggrandizing organisation called the Church which is strictly controlled by the White man. It has amassed billions of dollars in the Vatican bank and its officials now go around in private jets, investing the money in stock markets for profit. The Church is a money-making criminal enterprise run by a closed gang of Whites. It is capable of inflicting horrifying brutality on Christians themselves, as evident by the Inquisition. It is held temporarily in check because since 19th century, governments of Christian countries no longer cooperate with it and provide their soldiers to torture their own citizens in the name of the “Lord.”

    Christianity is an intolerant creed that does not recognise the right of any other faith to exist. We are simply asking Hindus to be tolerant with the intolerant. Anything that claims “our god is true, your god is false” and “my way or the highway” and “I am saved, you are doomed” is an enemy of humanity. It is the duty of every right-thinking person to thwart these ideologies which have caused so much death and destruction to the world through their brainwashed, zombie-like followers who can go on a killing spree at a moment’s notice.

    Brown Indians like we are merely useful idiots for the Whites and their Church. Xianity is nothing but a tool to promote white man’s culture and hegemony in other lands. That is why, the pope will always be a White man while black and brown fools will only get to carry White man’s names for ourself and our children. we will merely be the foot-soldiers collecting tithe and sending it to White man’s coffers and helping the…

  49. Hinduism is a militarised religion — all Hindu gods carry arms. Hindus until 1857 were fighting bloody wars with Muslims and Xians who had invaded their homeland. It is Gandhi’s rise, engineered by the cunning British and missionaries, that defanged and de-militarised the Hindu race through phoney non-violence. The ill effects of that deranged man on Hindus are still visible. Hindus have become passive and ashamed of themselves. It is time to get rid of Gandhi, a British stooge, and rediscover our sword. But this can never happen until Congress lives in India. It still follows British Raj policies.

    • @manavendra9953: You are confused about Hinduism. Hinduism believes on Shastra as well as on Shaastra. Both Knowledge and Power. Thats why the Devi and Devatas carry arms as well as musical instruments and Books in their Hands. Hinduism stands for Peace, thats why Devi and Devatas carry flowers in their hands.

      And what is congress man ??? All the political parties of India are vote centric, and they know a trinity – SC/ST/Muslim…. They are polarised. If you leave them others count only less than 25%. Even if being minor, we are not united. So we are not effective in Indian Politics. Thats why BJP which openly supports us is out of power. If we will be united and start polarising the votes, all parties will run for us.

      • Adolf : You are right… There are many Devatas they dont hold arms, Devi Sarasati hold Veena and Veda, where as Devi Durga holds arms… This shows all variety of needs of human. We should be strong at the same time we must be learned. Vishnu holds a flower as well as arms. Depicting peace and symbolizes if necessary use arms.

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