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UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

Is Purush Sukta of Vedas casteist?

This entry is part 8 of 11 in the series Vedas totally reject Caste System

“Vedas are the foundation of birth-based caste discrimination. It is in Vedas – the oldest scriptures of Hindus – the seeds of caste system were laid. And since then, exploitation of certain sections of the population became a mainstay of Hinduism. Later the condition aggravated even further. But because the foundation of the birth based caste system was in Vedas, and Vedas are ultimate unquestionable authority for Hindus, there was no way for the root of caste-system to be eliminated from the society.”

The above-stated belief system seems to be the predominant opinion regarding the origin of caste system infecting a wide diaspora of so-called ‘intellectual’ mindsets.

Who would benefit from Caste system?

Intellectuals from other religions use this as main excuse to hate Hinduism. Those involved in conversion from Hinduism and justifying the conversions done by them or their ancestors would find a convenient justification in blaming it on ‘Vedic’ birth-based caste system. It is a winning proposition for them thus.

Self-proclaimed Brahmins and upper caste

Casteist self-proclaimed Brahmins and so-called Upper-castes use Vedas as the tool to defend their ‘divine’ special rights regardless of their actual deeds. For them, of course, nothing could be more lucrative than an order from Vedas to continue giving an MBBS degree to all future generations of a doctor regardless of whether they actually could even spell ‘medicine’!

Dalit leaders

Many Dalit leaders have used this to explain discrimination in society and further their own political agenda. Who would like to destroy the entire vote-bank by destroying the very foundation of caste-system in totality? Ambedkar was different. He was a genuine seeker of social equality and Dalit upliftment. Ambedkar admitted that the only means for him to interpret Vedas were works of western Indologists since his own knowledge was grossly inadequate. In areas like Aryan Invasion Theory he vehemently criticized the western view! Sadly many modern Dalit leaders misinterpret Ambedkar for their narrow agendas.

Political leaders

Even someone like Mohandas Gandhi, on whose name Anna Hazare led the ‘Gandhian’ movement against corruption that made history, was bugged by this syndrome. Despite his other apparently mature views, with regards to the birth-based caste system, Mohandas Gandhi held firm belief that it was divine and essence of Hinduism. Instead, refusing to accept the very foundation of the caste system, he chose to legitimize it further by giving a special name to certain people – Harijan. What could be a greater insult to them than giving them a tag in the same manner as Arab looters would put chains over their slaves aka Non-Arab Muslims and call them ‘Mawali’? And now they say that ‘Mawali’ actually has a noble meaning! Refer Gandhi & Racism for references.

In fact, the reason ‘Harijan’ seemed to be the right word for so-called Shudras is that as per foolish neo-Hindu casteist views, Hari Bhakti was the ONLY spiritual option for Shudras as they were disallowed access to any Vedic literature! By calling them ‘Harijans,’ one can serve vote bank of bigoted ‘upper castes,’ neutral intellectuals and even ‘lower-castes.’ And indeed, the trick worked if we were to assess the popularity of this word with a demeaning intent.

We do not deny Gandhi’s contribution to society and nation. We admire his charisma. But for sure there are thousands of more unbiased non-dogmatic minds born in this nation who have contributed as much if not more. Despite all that Mohandas Gandhi is claimed to have done for the nation, we can no way admire someone who supported apartheid – the worst of the crimes – so vocally. Our firm belief is that the over-hype and imposition of Gandhi on India at a cost of the utter negligence of so many other role models that this oldest civilization of world has produced is driven by reasons that are different from an unbiased analysis of personalities and their concrete contributions. We need not elaborate on views of his protege Nehru whose ‘Discovery of India’ clearly proves his intent and wisdom. But all that is not the focus of this chapter. The crux is that even so-called reformer politicians could not rise over the myth of Vedic caste system for various non-intellectual reasons.

(None other Swami Dayanand had the guts to proclaim in clear terms, with evidence and reason, that no one is born Brahmin. A duffer born to a so-called Brahmin is worse than a Shudra, and a scholar born in a family of even a so-called Chandal is a Brahmin. Those who call certain people ‘Shudra’ on basis of birth are actually duffers and worse than Shudras themselves.)

Western Indologists

Western Indologists, of course, found a golden opportunity in the so-called Vedic caste system to dissuade Hindus from their foundations. They knew that most Indian intellectuals simply parrot what their white-Aakaas (Lords) utter, and that is what exactly is happening even till today. They had to do nothing great when foolish Hindus were still clinging to termite hill of casteism as their foundation despite all the slavery and downfall it had brought to them over last thousand years and even more. All British had to do was to propagate the garbage works on Vedas by their paid Indologists in lingua franca – English – and make it the predominant view on Vedas worldwide. After all, a false marketed smartly becomes a truth! Even a toilet cleaner advertised well becomes the drink of success!

We see that there were vested interests of all – the loser, the victor, the lawyer, the judge, and the neutral observer of drama – in ensuring that caste-system and the blame of its foundation in Vedas be continued and furthered.

But Agniveer cannot tolerate it

From time to time, few great men raised voices against this stupid caste system. Agniveer hails them as role models. But even they could not go to the root and question the very foundation of this hoax – ‘that Vedas sanction birth-based caste system.’ Their efforts only led to dissuasion of masses away from their own foundation – Vedas – and helped the enemy forces even more.

If someone calls your mother an indecent lady, you do not expel your mother. You instead explore the truth of the allegation, defend your mother if there is no such evidence and reject her only when there is conclusive evidence to contrary.

But those who can reject their mother at the very first hearsay are simply acting insane. What other adjectives can be used for them is left to readers. However, the crux is that Vedas are a mother for entire humanity – the first source of knowledge and wisdom and direction like mother’s milk. Those who neglect the mother or abuse her without any logical basis are bound to perish!

The humanity is facing troubles today because it neglected the mother. And we, the natives of this subcontinent, suffer even more ignominy and ironies and tragedies and problems because we were closest to the mother in recent history and yet chose to neglect her, or even malign her. We truly deserved greater punishments, and we rightly received them!

However, there are no surprises that we as foolish Hindus act so insane. After all, we derive our inspiration from fake and bogus stories from dubious texts that glamorize Sita’s exile by Rama and Harishchandra selling his wife! Even God can help only those who desire to help themselves!

And that is exactly why legends like Swami Dayanand and their progeny like Agniveer stand so strongly in defense of Vedas. Even if all other children of the mother choose to harm her or neglect her out of intent or foolishness, that does not grant each of us an automatic divine approval to neglect her and act even more foolish. The Law of Karma never spares anyone.

Note that the above is not an emotional hyperbole. Because such views, if understood without depth, may lead to blinded fanaticism. Someone may call Quran or Bible his mother and become defensive; other may consider Somalian piracy as its mother and become aggressive and so on. This would lead only to fanaticism.

On the contrary, the above is a well-analyzed viewpoint emanating because of a reasoning process. And we are very clear that if Vedas indeed are a source of anything illogical, we shall reject even the Vedas in the same manner as one amputates his own limb if having gangrene.

However, still one popular issue remains to be explained to complete the puzzle. This issue is about one particular verse of Vedas appearing in Purush Sukta that is considered the mother of the birth-based caste system. Purush Sukta is perhaps the ONLY alleged reference to the caste system in Vedas. All others allegations are too weak to be taken seriously even by detractors of Vedas. However, this one, though equally flimsy, surprisingly became a super hit just like many stupid Bollywood movies!

It does merit some special attention.

What is Purush Sukta?

Purush Sukta is a hymn of 16 mantras from Vedas that appears in all four Vedas with slight variations. More PhDs have perhaps happened on Purush Sukta than on any other intellectual aspect of Vedas. The 11th mantra of the Sukta is the one that carries the blame of birth-based caste system.

To explain the mantra and conduct their PhDs, scholars have used a variety of approaches.

• Some simply translated it literally.
• Some used their grammar prowess to justify caste system.
• Others (primarily those inspired by Arya Samaj) use the same prowess to reject it.
• Many other conclude that Purush Sukta is a later addition to Vedas because it is found in the last Mandala of Rigveda. In fact, they claim that the entire last Mandala of Rigveda is a later addition simply because they suspect so! Perhaps the ghost of Shah Jahan lives in Red Fort because I suspect so!

(It’s a different matter that they cannot explain why no version of Vedas without this 10th Mandala exists or how Purush Sukta is then found in other Vedas as well, not necessarily at end?)

(Sometimes we do feel that lack of scientific education has spoiled the entire world. Most people are leading opinions in areas like history, literature, and media, are those who were more scared of science and mathematics than ghosts were. Be it a Romila Thapar, or Wendy Doniger, or Max Muller or anyone else you may name. Destiny did not give them the opportunity to master the scientific process of thinking and analytical faculty.

We are of firm opinion that we need thoroughly scientific and analytical brains in these fields if we are to save our education system. An aptitude and reasoning test should be MUST.)

About Casteism in Purush Sukta

Coming back to the Purush Sukta, there is Mantra number 11 who is the culprit.

Mantra literally says:

“Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriyas were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.”

Shudras are lowly people born from his feet and Brahmins are greatest ones born from his mouth. Hence, the mantra is alleged to insult Shudras and glorify Brahmins. Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are somewhere in between.

As we said earlier, you can find a plethora of literature that critically analyzes this mantra and provides a wide amount of perspectives. Many explain in greater detail how this mantra led to modern day caste system through a chain of events and thought process.

Others try to prove that the mantra is interpolation because no other mantra in Vedas can be used to justify caste-system. As we observed earlier, we are always too eager to drive out the mother so as not to offend any allegation-maker!

More sincere defenders of Vedas attempt to provide alternative meanings of the various words used in the mantra to justify why it does not talk of birth-based casteism. They showcase evidence from other literature on the alternative usages of these words and attempt to defend the allegations.

To my mind, even this is a fruitless exercise beyond a point, because Vedas are much more to do with analysis and introspection and very less to do with grammar and etymology. After all, language was derived from Vedas and not vice-versa.

(Swami Dayanand laid great emphasis on analytical reasoning. In his proposed educational curriculum, only first few years of educations, when the intellectual faculty is limited, were dedicated to mugging up the basics. And rest of it was primarily focused on developing the analytical and introspective faculty. Unfortunately, modern Vedic scholars – including from Arya Samaj (the sect of his followers) spent years in only grammar and neglect science and maths completely. Their analytical reasoning is hopelessly limited, and they are unable to derive new insights and research from Vedas. Like other Arts subject, research in these fields primarily implies inconsequential literature survey (Which may soon become obsolete due to advent of search engine technology and digitization!))

Analysis of the casteist mantra of Purush Sukta

Coming back to the main line of discussion let us now analyze it deeper but a bit logically. Let us reproduce the meaning again for readability and make some points for those who see caste-based discrimination in this beautiful mantra:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriyas were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

• How does the mantra imply that Brahmins are superior, and Shudras are inferior? In fact, if the literal meaning of the mantra is true, then Brahmins are the most disgusting and Shudras much purer because vomit and sputum come from the mouth. After urine and stool, they are the most detestable outputs of the human body.

If a cherry falls on feet, you can still pick it up and eat it after washing. In fact, most of the grains we eat may have touched ground or feet in some way or other. But if it gets into someone’s mouth and mixes with his saliva or sputum, you will not eat it for sure even after washing!

• How can something be born from feet, thighs, mouth or arms? Even for a human being, the organs for reproduction are different. It is thus obvious that the mantra actually means something else. Foolish people take allegories literally.

By this logic, if a son is ‘Aankhon ka tara’ or Gem of the Eyes of his mother, it would imply that he resides in the form of a star within an eye of his mother! Perhaps we would send to asylum who take such similes literally.

• The same modern ‘orthodox’ Hindu ideology also believes in the rebirth of the soul. In fact, the very foundation of Vedic religion and all its offshoots is a belief in the rebirth of a soul that is unborn and undying. The questions are:

• How could ‘unborn’ soul be born from something? And if it is true, then rest of the Vedas and Vedic literature is false.

• What happens after we die? Now it is an established belief that one can change from Brahmin to Shudra etc. in next birth depending upon Karmas or actions. In fact, this is the lollypop that bigoted ‘Upper Castes’ offer to so-called Shudras – serve us for this birth and then become Brahmin in next birth.

If migration of caste is possible in next birth, we would like to understand the mechanism. Is it that after death, the soul goes back to Purusha’s feet or mouth or arm or thighs, transfer via the blood circulation system to next organ and take birth again?

• And what about animals and insects and birds? From where are they born and how do they change into Brahmin? Does it not all sound stupid if literal translation were to be taken seriously?

• And in any case, the Vedic Supreme Lord is always formless and omnipresent. How can He have a face, arms, and legs in first place? Yajurveda 40.8 states so in unambiguous terms.

• Further, even if we assume Supreme Lord to have shape and be able to reproduce from His various organs except the one that is used in humans for this purpose, how does that imply birth-based caste system? How can one conclude from this mantra that Brahmins will take birth in a family of Brahmins alone and Shudras in a family of Shudras? As per literal meaning of the mantra, Brahmins, Vaishyas, Kshatriyas and Shudras should take birth ‘directly’ from the body of Supreme. If we take this literal meaning of mantra as truth, then someone takes birth from the womb of a mortal woman and NOT directly from God Himself can be none of the four Varnas. They are someone else!

• What more, the mantra is in past tense. At best one can conclude that Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras were born from various organs of a queerly formed Purusha at the inception of creation. But none of them survive till today. The Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras of today are born hardly a few decades ago. But as per literal meaning of mantra, the birth has already happened. It does not say that God continues to run a factory for future production.
Further, none of the modern human beings actually came from anywhere except mother’s womb. None of these modern claimants of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra are genuine claimants of any caste. They all are fake claimants.
• Had someone taken birth from some woman’s mouth, we could have still have pretended to act superstitious and assert that “Since the mother is Supreme God, the newborn is a Brahmin.” But still, the condition of birth from the mouth, hands, legs or thighs ALONE constitutes a valid birth to qualify to be called either of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra. Rest of us, normal mortal humans beings, who originate from the womb of our mothers and not from hands, legs, or mouth, are perhaps aliens from outer universe controlled by some other God as per literal meaning of the verse!

• Since all births on planet earth happen ONLY from mothers, if we are to exist (which we all do!) then all women who give birth should be God themselves as per the mantra. And all men should be something other than either of four Varnas. We have no objection to people respecting all women as God. But at the same time, all men should be anything but humans since they did not come from the mouth, arms or legs of any woman.

Very clearly, the mantra makes no sense if one were to take it literally.

What is a pity that such a level of nonsense held sway over us for centuries, made us harassed paupers, and yet we refuse to get rid of the nonsense!

Intuitive and obvious meaning of the mantra

However, if the mantra is analyzed in the context of rest of the mantras and more intelligently, then definitely there is a whole branch of knowledge about the creation can be researched from the Sukta.

Readers can review the Chapter on Creation (Srishtividyavishay) in Introduction of Vedas (Rigvedadibhashyabhumika) by Swami Dayanand for a more logical and detailed contextual analysis.

However, an intuitive understanding of the mantra is very simple even for a layman if we are willing to remove the glasses of prejudice and mindset. It exactly means what all translators have stated:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya was created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

The only issue is that Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra do not refer to any souls or humans.

They refer to Varnas or properties that can be chosen.

And ‘He’ refers to not only the Supreme Lord as a whole but any self-sustaining ecosystem – be it society, organization, individual or universe. After all, everything is inspired by the Supreme Lord!

The mantra means that any self-sustaining ecosystem necessarily consists of four Varnas or properties or qualities or components – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra. Brahmin means intellect and knowledge. Kshatriya means strength and valor. Vaishya means management, balance, and stability. Shudra means rest of the qualities including ignorance.

A smart system would utilize the four components in most optimized manner.

A successful society would have intellectuals or Brahmins as head, Warriors or Kshatriyas as protecting hands, Vaishyas or business managers as stability providers or bone marrow producers (femur or thigh bone is the strongest bone of body) and rest of population would be utilized to provide support and basic infrastructure for the society.

A successful company would also organize itself accordingly.

The Supreme also creates the universe in a manner that these four components are balanced.

As human beings, even we have all these four within us. But as they are Varnas (choice) we have the option to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives. Note that there is, however, no binary choice of either having or rejecting a property. All the four must exist, only their proportions may vary.

Our brain represents the Brahmin, which should be nurtured to the extent possible. We should have strong arms to protect ourselves. We should have a very healthy body and good blood circulation to ensure our longevity. Also, we should have powerful feet to be dynamic.

There is no human who does not have any of these components or properties within him. And there is no meaningful activity that can be performed in the absence of all these four. After all, we are a complete being and not parts.

Even when we are studying Vedas, We use the
• Brahmin to understand the essence of Vedas
• Kshatriya to ensure we can study peacefully and not be disturbed by every other mosquito or nuisance.
• Vaishya to manage the procurement of Vedic text and lamp.
• Shudra to actually sit down, switch on the lamp and perform all manual tasks necessary to complete the study successfully.

If even one of the Varnas is ignored, the task may not be successfully and sustainably completed.

Buddhism focused only on Brahmin (intellect) and hence perished in Afghanistan to attacks from West Asian looters. Wahabis got exclusively into warfare and made the world a dangerous place. Hindus became too much of managers/Vaishyas or Jugaadbaaz and lost their strength and dignity. Islamic countries like Pakistan made Shudras out of its population by neglecting education and training, and now it is nearing a failed state due to the dominance of barbarians.

In society, we, for the sake of simplicity, call a person Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra based on his predominant profession. However, this is only a simplistic approximation. In reality, each of us has a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra within us or else we would not be able to survive even for a while.

You can clearly see that with this very logical interpretation, the entire Varna system as well as the mantra becomes so comprehensible and easy to understand. Of course, with further introspection and analysis including the study of language, we can derive even deeper meanings from this vastly intellectual mantra from one of the most wonderful Suktas of Vedas.

Summary
The broad essence is obvious and intuitive if observed without any baggage of post-dated bias and preconceived notions.

• That the particular mantra is not to be taken literally but as symbolism.

• That Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra represent four properties that pervade all human beings. These four properties are Varnas or choices.

• That means that we have a choice to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives.

• That the four organs of body – head/face/mouth, arms, thighs, and legs – represent the qualities of the four Varnas. If we consider the broader meaning of Uru used for Vaishya, it implies the entire central system – digestive system to thighs. In fact, in Atharvaveda version of the mantra, the word Madhya meaning center is used instead of Uru to clarify this better.

• Any ecosystem that provides appropriate roles & responsibilities to these four properties or people representing these properties is bound to be successful – be it an individual or society. Those who try to use feet for head or vice versa are bound to perish.

And that is what exactly happened through birth-based caste system. Even the dumbest witted were made ‘heads’ or ‘face’ of society merely because they were born in certain families that claimed to be Brahmins. The weaklings were warriors because of the family tag. And the most brilliant were forced to be in servile positions simply because they were born in some other set of families. As a result, we invited our own destruction!

However, we clearly see that by any stretch of the sane imagination, one can no way interpret the Purush Sukta mantra to have any meaning even remotely associated with the birth-based caste system. Vedas stand for complete meritocracy and equal opportunities for all human beings.

All these PhDs who are trying to prove or disprove casteism in Purush Sukta mantra 11 are completely irrelevant. They only reemphasize the need for quality aptitude training and examination of those who indulge in such researches. And speak volumes about intellectual capabilities with regards to analysis and logic of those so-called scholars who conducted such research in past.

We have also analyzed in other parts of this book, that the entire hoax of Vedas having to do anything with racism or casteism or discrimination in the name of gender or birth is a figment of the imagination of selected few. It is true that for quite a significant period in history, such perverted ideology held sway over the sub-continent causing utter loss to world and country. However, events do not justify themselves merely by their happenings. Just because something stupid happened in the era of Ashoka or even Ramayan and Mahabharat does not make that justifiable.

(There is a misplaced notion that ancient India was Vedic and now we are non-Vedic. There is a misplaced notion that Western world is anti-Vedic and we are more Vedic. All these notions emanate from shallow thinking. Vedas represent the best practices manual and fundamental laws of nature and living. There was never a time when all best practices of Vedas implemented with 100% perfection, and there was never a time when a society completely rejected Vedas. All this varies from time to time in different aspects of life. We benefit when we adopt Vedic wisdom in certain aspects of our lives and face miseries when we refuse to do so in some other aspects. We are far more Vedic in certain aspects compared to Ramayan and Mahabharat era. In certain aspects, we lag behind. Similarly, the Western world is far more Vedic in certain aspects of life like respect for all humans, while we are ahead in some other aspects like family values. This is a multivariate highly non-linear and dynamic function. But Vedas provide us way to attempt to maximize the value of the function at any given point in time.)

Citing examples from history or present era to claim something to be Vedic or anti-Vedic is as foolish as rejecting Vedas. We do not reject the concept of a circle in Mathematics simply because a perfect circle cannot be drawn in reality!

All we need to do is to seek opportunities for improvements in the true spirit of Vedas. That is what ideals are meant for.

Now, this caste system has been an anti-Vedic nuisance troubling us for ages. It has been a prime cause of all other troubles we faced and continued to face since last thousands of years. However, today is the most golden opportunity to destroy its very roots and become deserving of greater bliss.

The modern era social patterns make it totally outdated to classify a person simplistically into any one of the four Varnas. It is the time we adopt a more evolved model – where each human has all the four Varnas whose proportion vary in different aspects of life at different times in different situations.

And the foundation, as well as inspiration for it, should rightly come from our roots – the Vedas themselves. Let us together destroy the myth of caste system in Vedas and take it further to destroy all traces of birth-based caste system from our society as guided by Purush Sukta.

Conclusion

We conclude with our interpretation of Purush Sukta mantra 11 in nation’s perspective, as elaborated above:

May only the intellectuals be allowed to become face and heads of our nation.

May only the strong, powerful and possessors of noble character be the strong hands that protect and bring us glory through efforts.

May the smart, trained managers guide our entire processes and ensure a vibrant, healthy effective control mechanism. And may we utilize the rest of us to provide foundation and service to keep the system dynamic and powerful.

May we never allow non-intellectual minds to become heads, weaklings to become hands, untrained incompetents to manage the central control system and waste our talented resources in doing less productive activities.

Let us never allow mismatch of talents and job role on frivolous reasons like birth, family, favoritism, or corruption.

Let no profession – material or spiritual – become fiefdoms of selected few on the basis of any artificial barrier like caste or gender. And if there be any such existing barriers, let us destroy them completely to embrace the Purush Sukta!

The caste system is the father of all corruption.

Let us work for its total annihilation of it, in theory, and in practice.

There is no other way!

Vedas totally reject Caste System

The reality of caste system – 1 The reality of caste system – 2
Sanjeev Newar
Sanjeev Newarhttps://sanjeevnewar.com
Sanjeev Newar is an eminent data scientist, entrepreneur, best-selling author, and speaker with expertise in Vedas and Sanskrit. He is an alumnus of IIT Guwahati and IIM Calcutta. He quit the corporate world to work for social inclusion and the protection of the vulnerable. For his work on Dalit inclusion and empowerment, he received the Neelkantha Award in 2019. He founded the Sewa Nyaya Utthan Foundation to make quality education accessible to vulnerable groups and marginalised communities.

237 COMMENTS

  1. Just like a doctor’s son is not necessarily a doctor, a brahmin’s son is not necessarily a brahmin. You become a brahmin based on your good deeds and following the vedas and not by accident of birth.

    • Exactly! In fact you have quoted almost exactly from the draft of next article on this subject that is yet to be published: “….that does not mean that son of a doctor becomes a doctor merely by taking birth. He has to grow up, give exam and qualify for MBBS to use the Dr salutation. Same is true for every profession or Varna.”

    • Dear Kathrin, this is a very short-sighted vision. You cannot start to learn Veda when you decide to… after your school when you are 18 or 25 yrs. One has to learn from earliest age. And that is same with all other Varnas. Actually, even in the West “birds of the same feather flock together”. It is a very natural thing. A farmer’s son sees his father working and he learns the laws of nature very naturally. He knows farming by the age of 16 yrs. much better than a man of 20 who decides to attend some farming school. Vedic Varnaashrama system is a system – not a hodgpodge based on greed.

      • @Shaas:

        This website usually bans folks who like to promote “birth-based” caste system. If that is your intention, whether you are Hindu or not, you are going to be booted out.

        Enjoy your short stay.

        BTW…What is the caste of White Americans and Brown Mexicans according to you?

    • Arya Samaj is to DIVIDE AND RULE
      The Sanyasi’s holds the highest position in society and the truer he is to his Divine Nature the more will he take pride in sending down rays of light from his resplendent soul to the darkness which envelopes dwellers in palaces and hovels. Pray to the source of All Power to give you strength to perform the arduous task of reconciling your imperative duty as Grihasthis with the supreme duty of maintaining the Arya Samaj on the lofty pedestal which it occupies.
      Let us pray to the Almighty to grant us strength to bear persecution writhe fortitude, to resist with all our might the devilish temptation to return evil for evil and to trust to OM for the protection of the Arya Samaj.

    • Hari Om Tat Sat!
      Nice page. I am brahmacarini ( sadhvi). And I like Yours Page. Nice article.
      Yes I agree with this topic. A varna , and asrama is convertible. In Bhagavata Purana is write : ”If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.”
      It is convertible. You are such a varna to which you have a tendency. Through practice and devotion to Ishvara U get a the tendency for the better, and U can change a Varna.

      The exile of Rama Sita was. but this is not a simple story, as the history of human beings. It is leela of Srimati Sita Devi and Sri Raamacandra Ji. They had a ” rasa” -mood. We do not need to change their stories. This is their story of love.

      Hari Om Tat Sat.
      Pranam !
      .

    • ARYA SAMARPAN GEET
      Hey Ishwar kya tera diya Sundar Varna hai
      Hiro ke kimat ko jhuka de
      Aisa yeh dharma hai

      Agar Brahman Chunu toh Vedo ki mahima
      Vishwa mein faila du
      Kshatriya Chunu toh apno ka jivan
      apne prana dekar bhi raksha karu
      Vaishya Chunu toh Priyejano ke daridrata ko door karke
      unnati ko aasman ki aur bada du
      Phir agar yehi haath apne hi dharm ka vinaash kare
      Yeh rom-rom Shudratva ko grahan kare
      Mera hi samaj Mujhe hi barhishkar kare
      Toh kya apne kartavya ko chor
      Dasyuvo ki Sharan lu ?
      Are wo bhakt hi kya
      Jo kaato ke dar se bhakti ko hi chor de
      Apne Niyamo ka ullanghan karne se bhala
      apna maatha kaat
      Apne prabhu ke hawaale karu

      Manushya wo nahi jo dosh kare aur dand se bhage
      Lekin wo hain jo waapas satya ki raah le

      Thik tab ho , jab apne galti ka ehsaas karke
      Niyam ke badhe huye karma ko
      astra ki tarah uthaaoo
      Aur apne maan-sammaan aur dvijatvo ko waapas grahan karu
      O Maha-aatma(Super soul .i.e. father of all souls) ekbaar suno mere samarpan ko
      Aandhi aaye , toofan aaye , Chahe Mrityu bhi Aaye
      Tujhe kabhi na Choru
      Hey Ishwar,
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU
      MEIN TERA ARYA HU

  2. Good article. The concept of Varna is decided based on gunas or different aspects of Pradhana which are Rajas, Tamas and Sattva. Sattva is a + force. Tamas is a – force. Rajas is a neutral force. So, a logical question could be HOW can three gunas combine to give 4 varnas? Heres how as explained in the Bhagvad Gita.

    1. Sattva as primary and rajas as secondary
    2. Sattva as primary and tamas as secondary
    3. Rajas as primary and sattva as secondary
    4. Rajas as primary and tamas as secondary
    5. Tamas as primary and sattva as secondary
    6. Tamas as primary and rajas as secondary

    Since Sattva and Tamas are radically opposed, options 2 and 5 cannot be and are meaningless.

    All other four combinations are valid and are not composed of diametrically opposed components, giving rise to the four varnas.

    So, let us work towards improving our gunas or inherent nature which is completely unrelated to the family we took birth in. 🙂

    • Dear KalBhairav, I like your systematic argumentation but the conclusion you draw from it are not correct. There are very well mentioned the Family dharmas in Bhagavad-Gita. And the loss of family dharmas is very sad and at the basis of society’s ills.
      To destroy society’s order is the greatest loss for a society. Since 60 yrs. some sections of India try to destroy Varnaashrama system and India is sinking more and more into chaos and division.
      Birth is not a game. One is born into a family to make some specific experiences acc. to the karma. Therefore one should follow the family dharma to fulfil the family obligations and one’s own dharma. Every section of society has its obligations. Brahmin’s family traditions have preserved Veda and Vedic philosophy throughout all the invasions and occupations. Brahmins do learn Veda, not just some puja here and there. Kshatriyas defend the order, Vashyas create wealth, Shudras create and work too. America’s shudras disappeared and they have to import poor Mexicans who work for almost nothing without rights and always fearing deportation. The western style of society is greed-based, the Vedic system is birth-based.

      • No Shaas. You are stupid. Varna is NOT based on birth. It is based on gunas. Anyone can develop sattvic gunas. You are completely short sighted if you simply equate manual work with birth. You should be laughed out of polite company for advocating this.

      • Dear Shaas

        This is your last warning. Please stop advocating caste-system based as this site has a Zero-tolerance policy for this most disgusting practice which we consider even worse than deeds of Osama Bin Laden. Any further post and you shall be banned.

        Dhanyavad
        Admin

      • @.Shass
        Here is list of few who born as a Brahmin but later became Dasyu / Rakshash & Vice-Versa. You can find more details in
        http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/
        Matanga Rishi was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.

        m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.

        n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.

        o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal

        p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.

      • I don’t know much but if I’m not wrong then Parshuram was also a kshatriya born out of a Brahmin(Jamadagni).

      • @Shas

        what do you mean “Vedic system is caste based”??????

        can you provide a single mantra from all four Vedas that support your stupidity???

        there is no difference between you and fanatic muslims who lay these allegations on Vedas. All attempts to make Vedas look as they support the caste system has been debunked by Agniveer ji not once, but many times. The proof is this article here and all the previous articles on this site. Moreover, one of the main missions of this site is to annihilate the caste system since we indians have sufferred alot and still are.

        people like you are the downfall for our dharma, and I highly disrespect and condemn your views concerning the support for the caste system.

        Now, either you kindly apologize for your views and join us in our mission to destroy the caste system or I would request the Admin to ban you for good on this site.

      • No but I can give you an example for YOUR stupidity. You are, it seems a supporter of non-birth based system of society, just like the american chaotic system that leads the whole world economy to the brink of collapse and exists on the basis of importing intelligence from abroad because their criminal system just doesn’t work. The western chaotic societies are so vocal for equality but sustain themself by importing poor people from outside. Vedic system is based on birth, the western system is based on greed.
        There is one little but for many victims important difference: Vedic people do not lay bombs – neither to non-believers nor to believers, as it is usual with the fanatics of abrahamic religions.
        Dear Vik, your “request to the the Admin to ban” me from this forum shows that you are as impatient, as intolerant, as the “muslim fanatics” mentioned by you.

      • @Shaas:

        You earlier said America had run out of Shudraas, etc. You also brought in the idea of Mexicans who pick fruits in America. I had asked you this:

        BTW…What is the caste of White Americans and Brown Mexicans according to you?

        Care to answer?

      • @Shas

        I never said Americans are 100% vedic, even they perform some anti vedic practices which are insults to humanity. Anyways, back to vedas, there is no such thing as a caste system in Vedas. I only support Vedic way of humanity, and as per Vedas every single person has the right to become a brahmin or kshatriya or vaishya. As far as shudras are concerned, we were all shudras at one point in our lives including you. The only difference is that we gained education and became what we wanted, and those who fail to gain any education or training remain a shudra. Shudra is the basic profession for all humanity, not some stupid low caste label that you want to stamp on others. By the way, do you know how many people in India today are suffering due to this stupid caste sytem? People are even getting killed just because they are victims of this garbage. If you want to do something noble in your life, than become a true brahmin educate all those stupid so called brahmins that we should love all humanity and not consider them inferior.

      • It is unfortunate, but we are forced to ban this supporter of worst form of terrorism – caste-system – in lines of our Zero Tolerance policy for this disgusting mindset. We openly debate all ideologies despite sharpest differences because we still consider them to be human. We consider all humans of all religions and beliefs as our own family even though we may have most pointed debates. But the supporters of discrimination on basis of caste are the Dasyus or Anarya or Rakshasas with whom there is no point of even discussion. We appeal all to destroy this Rakshas within us all that has brought the world to mess and our great culture to such a downfall. And those who still want to live in their perverted delusion are challenged to propagate as much as they can regarding their superior genes and better nervous system. Agniveer promises to destroy their very roots in time to come.
        Admin

      • The role of the Brahmin is to preserve the Vedas, but that does not mean a person necessarily has to be born a Brahmin. The role of the Kshastriyas is to protect and govern, but that does not mean one needs to be born into it, same with Vaishyas and Shudras. You are confusing roles with birth.

  3. Pranam agniveerji

    Really appreciating your efforts to eradicate that idiotic birth based caste system. If I made no mistake it is the duty of our all. Very good job brother. Hats off.

    Dhanyawad

  4. Gandhiji though good was HYPOCRITE on many occasions like he used to criticize revolutionaries for using VIOLENCE but never criticized muslims for butchering Hindus in Kerala and also on many other instances.

    • Satya

      He also insisted Indian youth to join British Army to slay the Germans in world war (probably WW1) because it was duty of Indians to protect their lords (Britishers)! He kept on criticizing Indian revolutionaries (fighting for their nation) for inciting violence against Britishers but supported butchering of thousands of Germans by British Army. And this gentleman Mohandas is foolishly considered as father of MOTHER land 🙁

      • @Vajra Bro

        You are correct, many historians believe that if Gandhi instead of supporting Britishers in First World War had started Non Cooperation Movement and Quiet India Movement during First world war India would have been free 10-12 years before only instead 1947.

      • Bro Satya

        Why only non co op movement? When he could force people to join British army, why didn’t he do it for Indian army that would help gain us freedom from British invaders?

    • He might have not told something openly which he should have but that shouldnt mean that his intentions were wrong. Anyone can be deceived by one’s own learnig or believes but having a good intention for people and trying hard for it on the path of ahimsa and succeeding in it was his virtue. Many of his stands were not justified but still he could gather and lead the largest group of people by his will. He indeed a great person – a great son of mother India and father of a nation.

  5. brahman, kshatriya, vaishya, shudra aur antyaj, jaatiyan bhi to ho sakti hain. Pichhle janm mein kiye karmon ke anusar kisi ko brahman ka sharir, to kisi ko shudra ka sharir milta hai. Ye jaatibhed ishwarkrit hain.

    • manniy basant ji , jativad janmt: nahi hai ,balki gun vachak hai aaj bhi bahan mayavati ji ke n jane kitne janmt:braman adi unke chran sparsh kiya karte hai ! aj ke daur me bahan mayavati ji kshatriy hai , kyoki vah raja [shasak]ki bhumika nibha rahi hai !batlaiye ,balram ji , yudhishthir ji ,parashuram ji , duryodhan ,karn ,arjun ,bhim, drupadi ,dashrath ,lakshaman , tulsi das ,kabeerdas soor das ,mira adi ne kab jati suchak chinhon ka pryog kiya ? pahale bhi gurukul ke achary vidyarthiyo ke gun- karm- svabhav adi dekh karke hi usko varn vyvstha diya karte the ! vidur ji kaun the,? kis mata se janm liya tha , bad me vah kya kahalaye ! maharshi valmiki kya the ,bad me vah kya kahalaye ? vah “maharshi” kyo kahalaye ?ravan brahaman hokar bhi uske lakho putle har sal kyo jalaye jate hai ? vah manniy pujniy kyo nahi raha ?aaj bhi n jane kitne janmt: brahama mans khane vale , sharab pine vale balatkari apradhi hai kya unko brahaman jaisa samman diya ja sakta hai ?jara is par bhi vichaar kar lijiye ! sambhav hai ki apko hamari bat sekuch takleef hui ho ! hamara uddeshy apko takleef dena nahi hai lekin apni bat rakhna jarur hai ! apko kotish: dhanyvad

  6. Basant,
    Agagr brahman ke ghar me janm milta hai aur uska purv janm ka sanskar nai jagta hai jiski wajah se iswar ne usko brahman ke ghar me janm diya to phir wo sudra hi hai. Kyunki janm se sab sudra hota hai. Karm se dwij. aisa hamare rishi aur ved ne kaha hai.

    Aur ha bhai agar koi keval naam ka brahman hai aur uske ghar me kisi ne janm liya to ye mat samjho ki wo kisi brahman ke ghar me janm liya hai.
    Iswar ki nyay vyavsta ekdam satik hoti hai.
    Iswar ki ye nyay vyavstha hame indirectly ye bata rahi hai ki kisi ko janm se brahman mat jaano.

  7. कुत्ता , भैंस , मछली, गाय , पेड़-पौधे आदि जातियों की भी अलग अलग जातियां पाई जाती है। वैसे ही मनुष्यों की भी जातियां होनी चाहिए। कोई व्यक्ति बुद्धिमान के घर में जन्म लेता है तो कोई मूर्ख के घर। कर्म का फल ऐसे ही मिलता है।

  8. manniy basant ji agar koi buddhiman ke ghar me janm leta hai koi murkh ke ghar me bad buddhiman ke yahan janm lene vala , murkh bh ban sakta hai v murkh ke ghar me janm lene vala buddhiman bhi ban skta hai jaise bhimrav ambedkar ji , jaise ravan ! kya tab unko ajivan janmana jati di jayegi ? unme badlav kyo nahi ho sakta ? aaj n jane kitne bachhe apne parivarik karyo me ruchi n lekar kuch aur ban jate hai tab unki varn vyvstha kyo n badli jaye ? jo ap janvar adi ka udaharn de rahe hai to batlaiye bhains, gadhe adi me bhi brahaman ,kshatriy, vaishy shudr adi ki pahachan kar sakenge ? inme 19-20 ka QVALITY ME ANTAR HO SAKTA BAKI NAHI ! NEEM KE PED ME BATLAIYE KYA ANTAR HOTA HAI ? KYA SABHI KADUVI NAHI HOTI ?

  9. MANNIY BASANT JI , kya doctar ke santan ko bhi aap doctar maankar usse ilaj karva lenge ? ya yogyta samajhkar usse ialaj karvayenge ? fir janmana jati vyvstha par jor kyo ? kya ap jo bhi kary karte hai vah aapke pita ji v ya apki sabhi santane bhi vah8i kary karti hai ! kyasabhi ki ruchi saman hai fir karm ka mahatv hi kya raha !

  10. brahman ki santaan yadi brahman ki jaati ka ho to use brahman varn ka manenge. Yadi brahman ki santaan shudra ki jati ka ho to use shudra varn ka manenge.

  11. satyarth prakash mein ek jagah likha hai – ”…manushyon mein brahman kshatriya, vaishya , shudra, antyaj jaatibhed ishwarkrit hain, parantu manushyon mein brahmanadi ko samanya jati mein nahi, kintu samanya vishesaatmak jati mein ginte hain.”

    • manniy basant ji yah bat satyarth prkash me kahan likhi hai uska sandarbh to batlaiye ? ishwar manushyo me jati ka vargikaran kyo karega ? uske liye do bhed jarur hai ek “arya “dusra “dasyu ” jo dusroka bhala kare vah arya jo dusro ko nuksan pahunchaye vah dasyu ! yah to bad ke shastro ne ved sammat hokar vargikaran kiya hai , jo buddhi se jivan yapan kare vah brahaman , jaise shikshak doctar ,injiniyar adi jo desh v samaj ki raksha karte huye jivan yapan kare vah kshatriy jaise sena v polis ke karmchari , jo saman adi bechkar jivan yapan kare vah vyapari [vaishy] jo padhane se bhi nahi padhe sabhi logo ki sharirik shram se jyada kary kare seva karke jivan yapan kare vah shudr jaise majdur adi !

      • ‘देवत्वं सात्विका यान्ति मनुष्यत्वञ्च राजसाः।
        तिर्यक्त्वं तामसा नित्यमित्येषा त्रिविधा गतिः।।
        -जो मनुष्य सात्विक हैं वे देव अर्थात् विद्वान् , जो रजोगुणी होते हैं वे मध्यम मनुष्य और जो तमोगुणयुक्त होते हैं वे नीच गति को प्राप्त होते हैं।’
        इस प्रकार भिन्न भिन्न जातियां कर्मानुसार मिलती हैं।

      • yahan par jati ka matlab vargikarn ka matlab ho sakta hai ! apne yah “shlok”kahan se liya hai, uska sandarbh nahi diya hai ! samaj me vargikarn to hoga hi, vah chahe is desh me ho ya videsh me ! jab manushyo me acharan me bhedbhav hai tab uska vargikaran bhi hoga ! koi prathm shreni me pas hoga koi dusri me aur koi fel bhi hoga lekin yah bhi kisi parivar me janm lene ke karan nahi ho sakega ,sath me vah janmana jatpati se matalab nahi rakhta hai ! manushyo ke gun- karm -svabhav se rakhta hai !

      • manniy basant ji, isme to matr karm fal ka sanket hai n ki jati ka? jo jis star ka karm karega vah usi tarah ke karm ke fal ko bhogega !

  12. लेकिन आर्योद्देश्यरत्नमाला मे लिखा है- ”38़ जाति- जो जन्म से लेकर मरणपर्यन्त बनी रहे, जो अनेक व्यक्तियों में एकरूप से प्राप्त हो, जो ईश्वरकृत अर्थात् मनुष्य, गाय, अश्व और वृक्षादि समूह हैं, वे ‘जाति’ शब्दार्थ से लिए जाते हैं। ” मै इससे कथित जातिवाद का खण्डन होता है।

  13. INDOLOGISTS HYPOCRISY CAN BE EASILY EXPOSED BY EXAMINING ONE FACT that is those who have read bible and VEDAS would easily know that one of the important GOSPEL OF BIBLE (GOSPEL OF JOHN) STARTS WITH A VEDIC VERSE. GOSPEL OF JOHN’S FIRST VERSE (JOHN 1:1) IS A COPY PASTE OF VEDIC VERSE. “In the beginning was word …………”

    Why did hypocrite Indologist like Max Muller and other Indologist hid this fact, obviously they are Christian Missionary agent and nicely know that if these secrets come to western public christianity will be destroyed, BANK OF VATICAN WILL BECOME BANKRUPT.

  14. SLAM DUNK!!!Nothing else describes this post. It is a bit of coincidence. I happened to discuss Purusha Sukta and casteism with a bunch of people in the middle of Ganesh Chaturthi festivities that were organized by people around our house. The topic veered towards lot of attempts being made by local Xtian groups in someone’s neighborhood to convert people based on casteism. I discuss in detail on what Purusha Sukta means and the guy that was being targeted by other converts in his family left a happy man. It is important that this post / parts of it are translated in as many languages as possible and distributed to people that visit temples.

  15. this site is created for hatred. U cn urself see there are three four person comnting in every post ie vik, vajr. Wherever u go everybody defaming islam nd muslim. U cn se rss page on fb. Agniveer playing wid words like on quran nd modern science post he stop cmnts. He has nt analysed clear facts of quran, like skin have pain receptor. Dr. Morice bucaile acptd islam after reading verse in quran regarding pain receptors in skin. Ppls here used to repeat there questions, they have brain but dnt understand. Regarding hadees related to hazrat ayesha they add there words in hadis, u may answer bt they dnt understand even admin delete ur cmnt.

    • This site is created for hatred, and IRF promoted sites are created to promote world peace, is that right? Dr. Half-mind Bucaile accepted islam after knowing pain receptors, tell him to study Vedas, he come to know of quantum physics from it. Maybe, he will then change his mind.

  16. @faizi:

    Dr. Morice bucaile acptd islam after reading verse in quran regarding pain receptors in skin.

    So, humans had no clue skin had pain receptors before the Quran?

    this site is created for hatred.

    Any Muslim talking of hatred needs to open ANY random page of the Quran. Probability is high that verse provides a graphic description of Allah’s eternal hellfire. How can you accuse Hitler of hatred and pogrom when your Quran surpasses Main Kampf in that respect? Why are you still worshipping a God who promises to torture us in eternal hellfire and to make it more painful will provide us with newer skin each time the old skin burnt? 🙁 Cannot Allah just judge us based on how we have treated each other in this world instead of whether we believe in Mohammad and Abu or Ali, etc.? Why is the criteria for Jannah so random and ad-hoc?

  17. its funny when u say that no casteism by birth but one becm pundit by work nd knwledge. I hvnt seen any temple where any shudra is head pujari. nobody even agniveer team wil ever ready for his or family person’s antimsanskar done by dalit pujari. For ur every grahdosha or whatever u hv to give food brahmins or cow, nowhere it is mention that anybody can give food to shudras instead of pandits. U knw y sc are stil hindu, becz of reservation. Stop reservation for 1 year nd se the results.

  18. @faizi:

    I hvnt seen any temple where any shudra is head pujari.

    You’ve said it yourself. The head pujari, if he knows the Vedas, is BY DEFINITON Brahmin. It is by his knowledge that he is called a Brahmin – not in which family he was born.

    dalit pujari.

    You’re confusing terms…Varnashrama doesnt talk of “dalits”. Also, a Pujari, is by definition a Brahmin – whether he is an African or Caucasian or Chinese or Vietnamese.

    Reframe your post in light of such glaring mistakes on your part.

  19. i knw my cmnt wil be deleted. U can se ppls coming here nd saying i am going to acept islam, agniver u r wrong. Hinduism is nothing but idolworship, worship of penis? Shivling lol, vagina yoni? Lol, nagababa, nanga baba? Lol, girls drink water after pouring to penis of naga baba. How much beliv in arya samaj. U hv never put any arya samaji veda translation in any website, so whatever i quote u’l say no its nt authentic translation. Satya adharma i hv seen u. U r part of agni team. Allah give hidayat who want. If u want gumrahi than its ur choice. Bjp delhis cm contestant elder brother acptd islam when nda govt was in centre. He is phd from howard. He has to refuge fronm here. In quran what u are refering to verses for hate, are for mischievious persons who dnt obey his master.

    • ————-“Lol, nagababa, nanga baba? Lol, girls drink water after pouring to penis of naga baba.”————-
      and in parts of arab girls are so worried about hiding their face from others that they even lift their skirt up to hide their face.. as per quranic superstitions!!
      what about worshiping the graves … lol!! graves??? what would a dead person give you who is just sand now?

      ————-” How much beliv in arya samaj?”————
      how much believed earth is round in past ? most people like you believed earth is flat.. because bible said so! similarly you say quran is correct bcoz your father said so!
      and many many many believe in arya samaj… and further arya samaj is not book that you believe or not! vedas are believed to be supermost by all hindus. then all people follow arya samaj in their marriage and death rites!

      ———–“U hv never put any arya samaji veda translation in any website,”————
      u are just ignorant , check out the arya samaj jamnagar website… all four vedas and darshans also.
      google “read vedas” — it is on first page results!!

      —————-“Satya adharma i hv seen u. U r part of agni team”————
      yea everyone opposing you is part of a team… ? no doubt on that sir!
      hats off!! 😀

      ————–“In quran what u are refering to verses for hate, are for mischievious persons who dnt obey his master”—–
      so means quran paves a way for master and slave system and also sets uop the rules for slavery??? so quran justifies slavery !! right??
      this is what you have said yourself!!

  20. kal g u knw what i mean u hav no answer. It is caled dalit in india. For ur convinience SHUDRA brahmin PUJARI. hav u seen? I was talking wid my one sc friend, he was saying same thing parhe to pandit hoye. I asked same cn take risk? Nd in ur loving one last rituals u’l cal parhe to pandit hoye type pandit? Can u allow ur real brother to do last rituals of ur mother. He was silent.

    • yea!! come in arya samaj … there are pandits who are might be dalits etc.. and there are female priests also who carries marriage… if you have never seen paris it does not mean there is no paris!! 😀

      ——— I was talking wid my one sc friend, he was saying same thing parhe to pandit hoye. I asked same cn take risk? Nd in ur loving one last rituals u’l cal parhe to pandit hoye type pandit? Can u allow ur real brother to do last rituals of ur mother. He was silent——–

      and once i asked a muslim about that what will the dead grave of khwaja ajmer would give you? what would that dead whose even body is now over run by insects .. could give you! and he was silent!!

      why do you take discussions as low to level that person said me this and that person said me that!! come on scriptures dude! 😀

    • Most of the ISKCON temple pujaris are from NON-brahmin background.
      People are accepting islam so they can be gathered properly to be killed in fitna see what is going in Karachi

  21. lastly wherever i go rss page, bajrangdal page on fb or agniveer, i hav seen them doing anti islamic propaganda. It is their negative propaganda? Y dey need negative things becz they dnt hv any thing positive. Therd is no divorce in hinduism they hv to make hindu mariage act. Samething to all problems of humanity- hinduism hv no solution. Islam hs solution so we do postve propanda. U cn se any islamic or muslamic web page or gp on fb. Comn hindus are nice even very nice bt ppls like u intoxicating them. U r afraid of zakir naik, u dnt knw there are lot of zakir naik who never come on tv. Ask ALLAH for hidayat.

    • —————-“Islam hs solution so we do postve propanda. U cn se any islamic or muslamic web page or gp on fb.”———–

      yea yea!! islamists never make facebook pages or websites… they straight drop bombs, do hjacking of planes, bring the buildings down, kill the innocents, attack on temples… .

      what a brilliant positive propaganda !!

      have you ever read the letters these terrorist societies send when they take claim of their bomb blasts??

    • Yes, we will continue to update our customs and practices, but you are still stuck in medieval times.

      Common hindus are nice because you can brainwash them with Zakir’s fallacious arguments, but we are the evil ones because we stand as vanguards of our faith and will foil the repeated attempts of you, jehadis.

  22. Muslims and Christians accuses Hindus of phallic worshipers, where as in reality Muslim and Christians have themselves come from phallic worshiping cult of Egyptians and Babylons and there are undeniable proof for that. Muslims and Christians do not know that CIRCUMSCION is phallic ritual of phallic worshipers of Egyptians and Babylon. Minarets and Obelisk are really symbols of phallus that is why Switzerland banned creation of minarets in their country.

    Do you know black stone of Kaaba is vagina cum URINAL the black stone with silver casing was used by pagan arabs as vagina of Al Uzza who pagans arabs believed that kissing it gives sexual power of numerous men and that is why mohammad uses to kiss it and the myth of Mohammad’s sexual power equivalent to several men.

    Muslims don’t know that black stone that they kisses were destroyed to pieces by invading army and urinated by Qarmatians. They used the black stone as urinal for than 20 years. To Know about Qarmatians see in wikipedia, so poor muslims are really kissing a URINAL and bowing 5 times a day to a URINAL see this link.

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59436

    LINGAM IS NOT PHALLIC SYMBOL that is clearly mentioned in the LINGA PURANA AND SKANDA PURANA.

    The Lingam Purana states:

    प्रधानं प्रकृतिर यदाहुर्लिगंउत्तम ।
    गंध-वर्ण-रसहिंनं शब्द-स्पर्शादिवर्जितं ॥

    meaning:

    the foremost Lingam which is devoid of colour, taste, hearing, touch etc is spoken of as Prakriti or nature.

    The nature itself is a Lingam (or symbol) of Shiva. When we see nature, we infer the presence of its creator – Shiva. Shiva Lingam is the mark of Shiva the creator, Shiva the sustainer and Shiva the destructor. It also dispels another myth in which Shiva is considered only as a destructor.

    Another authentic reference comes from Skanda Purana where lingam is clearly indicated as the supreme Shiva from where the whole universe is created and where it finally submerge.

    आकाशं लिंगमित्याहु: पृथ्वी तस्य पीठिका।
    आलय: सर्व देवानां लयनार्लिंगमुच्यते…

  23. krisna, u dnt knw what i mean to master, u cn check ur level bcz there master refers to God. I hv to talk on this level bcz u ppl either conviniently skip that line of verse which explain the real meaning of that verse, or u urself give it to meaning which suport ur meaning. Many ppls clarified that kaba is only centre, used for direction, we dnt worship that. If u r nice person like other cmn hindus are u shld understand it, hazrat bilal give azan(cal) for namaz standing over kaba, bt u dnt want to undrstand. Have u ever sen any idol worshiper worshiping his idol standing over it.

    • ———– many hindus throw their idols in river after worshiping for sometime.. means implying that idols are not god!! see ganesh chaturhi, durga pooja etc….

      why dont you pull that stone out from kabba an throw it in sea????

      why have you not done that yet?

  24. krisna, u r acepting there are dalit pandit in arya samaj mandir, wow, ur bos vik is saying dalit is wrong word acrding to veda. Ask agniveer to give veda classes to u?? Ur height of ignorance or u r bunch of liars, dat u hv never seen any page regarding islam on fb, no website, wow . Any body cn se u nd ur bos always refer to answeringislam.com type anti islamic websites. It means u hav searched islam nd selected mater frm anti islamic site, conviniently skipd tha authentic websites. It shws what are u doing that is intentionally, u r mischivious persons. we never say anything abusive to veda, or ur lords on our webs. U cn c ur frnds cmnts in agniver. .

    • Faizi, if you have any serious points to discuss, lets do that, one by one. Otherwise, keep your rambles away from this site.
      Are we game?

    • yea!! obviously dalit word gets no mention in vedas!!

      but it indeed gets a mention indian constitution… so getting what you wished to ask… i answered that yes a dalit be made pundit this thing is possible and done in arya samaj because there is no one or no word as ‘dalit’ in arya samaj or vedic ideology!

      where is the contradiction in mine and vik’s views??????

      you are just a person who has been fed up as islam is best!! please scrutinize your claim once!!!

  25. “Many ppls clarified that kaba is only centre, used for direction, we dnt worship that”

    similarly many hindus can say they do not worship idols but just face those idols to worship the god!

    obviously they know that the idol is not god but they have made a idol to worship god!

    moreover many hindus throw their idols in river after worshiping for sometime.. means implying that idols are not god!!

    can muslims go and pull out the kabba stone … why has it not been done yet??
    why not to go and kick that black stone??

  26. krishna, kaba is centre, qibla, to make ppls one ummah a centre required. I m very happy to see ur cmnt, read surah feel, surah no 104. Ur heart is burning nd u r chewing ur fingers. Ans me hv u nt se any islamic website or pages on fb, but-but, u cnt answer it. For u (u r arya u might b sc?) dr. Ambedkar is enough what pandits hau done to sc, are stil sc nt slave in india? Hv u seen any aryasamaji pandit sweeping roads, colecting garbage. Baba saheb write dat sc wer ordered by pamdits dat u shuld ti a brom at ur back nd hang a clay pot in ur neck whenever u go on roads, so dat u r footsteps keeps on vanishes nd u may nt spit any where except ur pot . Cn u imagine the scene. Islam ended slavery indirect way. Nw u cn se there no slave in islamic world. Sc r slave til date, u cn se swepers r sc nt pandit.

    • There have been wrongs done by people in the past and we acknowledge it. People like Raja Rammohan Roy, Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, Jyotiba Phule, etc have worked to uplift the status of the poor and downtrodden and stop the tyranny of the privileged class. But, muslims have done worser things to nonmuslims, not to speak of fellow muslims. Are you not aware of the bomb blasts in Pakistan and Iraq where muslims of minority sects are killed on a daily basis. What do have say about the fate of shias, ahmaddiyas, kurds, etc. who are routinely targetted by wahabis and that to in the name of islam? They in fact do not consider the other sects to be muslims even.

  27. naruto. A comunity by birth forcd to clean shit, nw u r saying it nt in veda, is it nt serious topic?? Dnt we hv any responsibility to uplift them. U hv given lolipop of reservation otherwise balasaheb ordrd them to throw this religion of cast system. U end reservation today dey wil say tata to hinduism. In the name of dr. Zakir u start abusing quran, Allah in this web. If i shw u miror u say discus on serious topic. In my city there r 60thousand hindus no arya samaji mandir here. U urself minority what cn u do to sc. When they were forced to clean d shit were u sleeping? U make this website for injecting islam hate. Ur duty is to tel hindus dat sc are nowhere in veda nd pandit thakur shuld clean the road to wipe their sin, it is debt on pandits.

    • Much as I appreciate your concern for your fellow human beings faizi , your ramblings are nothing but what a good man would feel at the social injustice of what is happening in the name of caste in India. There are documentaries of people converting to Xtinty, Islam just to escape the social stigma. However, the menace is so strong that they never can escape the stigma fully, and continue their miserable lives in the new religion. I am not talking about all, but a good few, enough to prove that change of religion is nothing but a short term relief and not a permanent solution.
      What I beleive Agniveer is proposing to do is to UPROOT the caste-by-birth and upper-lower caste menace totally by citing vedic scriptures as proof. Since for all hindus vedas are supreme, the sense of shame that one associates with oneself implicitly thinking he is born in a low caste is removed for ever. And believe me, Arya samaj has done and is stilldoing more in this regard than you could imagine. However, they dont have the petro dollars of the muslims nor the euros pouring in the name of the Joshua project from vatican. The filthy rich Hindus remain just that : filthy and rich, without a care about their fellow suffering hindus. Despite so many adversties, Agniveer is trying to regain the original,discrimination-free vedic society back in place. Cheerios.

  28. Dear Faizy, some of ur words impressed me, but some are used just for argument sake. Baba Ambedkar started reservation, agreed, some opposed it, and many still opposing. Reason is not for hate towards some caste, because it is birth based. We support economic backward people to be supported, not a rich one born in SC or ST labelled caste.
    Secondly, why a pandit or thakur will clean road ? what sin they did ? Some one who did the sin will be punished for his deeds, and we all see this happen. See the past, who ever created discrimination, never died happily, its the truth even for Mahatma Gandhi.

  29. Slavery was a gift of Islam and Christianity. These two religions even permit sex slaves. But In India, Shudras were never used as sex slaves.

  30. May be all sweepers are SC, but is an Engg. is sweeper ? Is a doctor sweeper ? Go to Chandnichow of delhi, u will find many Pandit caste people driving rikshaw..

  31. And faizy come out of the illusion that there are no Islam pages on fb, or no islam sites. We all are here because of the hate islam sites, because of Zakir nayak promoted sites like IslamHinduism, etc..

  32. akhila sir, u hvnt read previous cmnts of krishna he is saying dat there is no pages on fb regarding islam or websites muslims dnt spread islam or try to convince they only throw bmb. So i said u searched islam nd picked anti islamic site so dat u cn satisfy ur ill desire of molesting islam. Secondly sir r u nt seing contradiction they are one person become pandit by karma, what a joke? It so simple, hv u ever sen any joshi, trivedi or mishra in sc. Or i hv nt listen anyone saying that he born in pandit family nw become sc due to karma. I m nt saying abt auto rickshaw, i m saying abt pandit becoming sc nd cleaning road. If sex slave is gift of islam it shld b cmn practice in islamic world thesedays? Do u find in anywhere in muslim world. I dnt hate hindus. My 60% frnd r hindu, we eat in same plate, roam togather.

    • @faizi:

      hv u ever sen any joshi, trivedi or mishra in sc.

      SC/ST, etc are legislated by government. Now, a Joshi, Dwivedi, Trivedi or Chaturvedi, etc. do not become Brahmins per the Vedas just by birth. Nobody is born a Brahmin. Those who claim so are abusing the Vedas.

      You are confusing the caste system, which is a social/legislative construct with Varnashrama. It is indeed unfortunate that the two have been mixed.

      The point of Agniveer and others here is that birth-based Varna system has no sanction of the Vedas. If you disagree please bring appropriate Vedic verses to support your cause. Otherwise you are just regurgitating the problems with India that ALL of us are aware of already.

  33. there so many beliefs in hinduism, whatever u belive u r hindu. I asked many persons due to which act or words any hindu wil b nomore hindu ie he’l become non hindu ? He wil remain hindu whatever he does or say. Normaly i say my friends dat by law of probability there r 50% chance of hinduism right nd 50% chance of islam is right(my belief is islam 100% right), supose hindsm rite than u nd me(being muslim) both wil go to next yoni acrdng to karma. But if islam is right then u hv to live in hell fire forever nd if i m beliving muslim wil b in paradise forever. Whatever yoni wil get(if hinduism is right nd u become muslim) is better than hell. Also i’l read veda translation of these agnis on jamnagar site nd then ask question to them. If nw i.ll post anything frm veda they say no no it is wrong translation.

    • @faizi:

      But if islam is right then u hv to live in hell fire forever nd if i m beliving muslim wil b in paradise forever.

      See, this is just Pascal’s wager. There are many responses to it. Here’s one…which version of Islam will land you in heaven? Shia or Sunni? What if Xity is the ONE TRUE RELIGION and everything else false? Unless you prove that Allah exists and Quran is the word of God, your wager is meaningless.

      Now, next you talk of paradise forever for you. You also mentioned previously that you have many Hindu friends. Now, heres another challenge for you. In paradise when you are in the garden where beautiful streams flow, you KNOW that these Hindu friends of yours are burning in hell. You may even hear their screams of pain and anguish as Allah provides for them fresh skin as they are burnt and reburnt. Will heaven really be heaven for you when you hear screams of anguish from your old friends? Will you be happy in such a heaven?

  34. kal bhai, please once explain me when a person change to pandit from shudra or vice versa by karma. What wil he ad to his name then? How cld other identify them? These r practical problem u r saying we ALL knw that. Then what, u cn write anything on islam when we ask abt hinduism u say no no give from veda. Practicaly u r molesting shudras nd saying no it is nt in veda. Tel me what is d system of caste in arya samaj. How u pick ppls frm u to clean roads nd garbage? Y here no mandir of arya samaj in my city? Is non arya samaji is non hindu? U r confusing me. In my city these 60 thousand hindu r nt hindu? I knw they wil remain hindu whatever they do.

    • First, of all your understanding of the caste system is flawed. Caste system not birth based. It was a division of the society based on labor. So, we had brahmins (intellectuals), kshatriyas (protective class), vaishyas (traders), kayasthas (skilled laborers), and shudras (unskilled laborers). A shudra becomes a brahmin only through his efforts.

  35. kal bhai, dnt u understand i invite them to the religion of peace from the core of my heart. If they wil die as rejecters they hav to go to hel for forever. I wil nt hv any authority that day.

  36. @faizi:

    This has already been explained to you. But since the answer is not what you want to hear, you keep shutting your ears. Let me explain again.

    The surname does NOT denote Varna. A person in Saudi Arabia can be a Brahmin if he exhibits Sattvic qualities. A person in USA can be a Shudra if he exhibits Tamasic qualities. Also, within each of us, at different points in time there are different qualities/gunas. So, at different points in time I have been a Shudra, a Vaishya, a Kshatriya and a Brahmin. The same with you. Did we have to change our names at those times?

    For what constitutes Sattva, Rajas and Tamas, please refer to Bhagvad Gita Chapter 18. It is NOT by birth. Let me give you an example. A Christian person who does good deeds in this life in Africa and developed many Sattvic tendencies will continue in his next birth where he can attain more Sattvic tendencies in, say Saudi Arabia, as a liberal Sunni. This continues until he reaches perfection when he unites with Brahman.

    Please let me know if something is not clear.

  37. kal g, i hv given my view clearcut, what happen to me after death accordin to u if i am beliving muslim? What wil happen to u a beliving arya samaji hindu?

    • @faizi:

      Please explain to me what you mean when you say a “believing Muslim”. If as a “believing Muslim” your belief involves separating the world into Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb or US vs THEM,…ie. as long as one perceives duality in the world, regardless of whether one is a Muslim or Christian or Arya Samaji or atheist, there will be cycles of birth and death. Moksha is possible only when one perceives EVERYTHING as Brahman alone. This is the Advaitic answer.

      According to Dvaita, one needs to pursue a path of Bhakti or intense devotion. This Bhakti can be directed to any Ishta Daivatam. But this Ishta Daivatam does NOT separate the world into us vs them or doesnt send prophets from time to time.

      So, unless we are clear what you mean by “believing Muslim”, I cannot answer my question. If as a believing Muslim you are happy with Allah/Mohammed but dont hold an opinion that non-Muslims are hell-bound, you may ALSO attain Moksha.

  38. kal g, i hv given my view clearcut, what happen to me after death accordin to u if i am beliving muslim? What wil happen to u a beliving arya samaji hindu? Nd do u believe in BHAGVAT GEETA wow non veda history buk.

  39. ur view is clear cut except bhagvat geeta but it is theoretical only, u r giving varanashram related shloaks that meaning which nobody except ur grp undrstand nd practicly difrent practice in society. Secondly there r dif punishment in veda for same crime for dif castes ie for shudras harsh punishment nd for pandit dif. U r saying no need to identify then y dif punishment nd how practicly posbl to give?

    • @faizi:

      I think these punishments that you mention are in Manusmriti. I dont hold that supreme. Maybe Arya Samaj does. They can answer you better.

      Also, it is unfair for you to expect the answers to EVERYTHING from the Vedas. The Vedas lay the foundations. The Upanishads constitute the end of the Vedas, or Vedanta. The BG summarizes the essence of the Vedas and Upanishads.

      I already told you that you will not like my answer because it destroys your notion of birth-based caste system. Now the only option left for you is to state that you will not accept what is said in the BG. What more can I do?

      All said, regardless of whatever ANY holy book says, whether it is Vedas, Old Testament, Quran or Guru Granth, we have to apply the rationality test to it. We are in the 21st century. we have made HUGE scientific progress. We need to be able to reinterpret books according to this day and age. Do you agree?

  40. u r so versed abt islam but dnt knw what believing muslim mean? Ok it separates in muslim nd non muslim it say only believing cn go to jannat. How u got the vedas if there is no messanger(as hindus say it dev vani i dnt what u believe?), what are rishis who give u this veda? R they nt messanger of ishwar? What is geeta u r refering nd who is krishna? Hindu believ he is avtar? If u believ in islam nd ur aryasamaj is right then maxim risk only yoni nd if islam is right nd u r arya samaji u’l get hell agni forever. Y u r taking so big risk? Cn u nt becom gud arya samaji in next yoni?

    • @faizi:

      The Vedas are eternal. The Rishis are not messengers like Jesus or Mohammed who received their message directly from God. The essence of the Vedas are there even today for you and me to discover. Why depend on the ancient Rishis? For you and me to discover the Vedas, we first need to cleanse our mind, practise Yoga, attain Samadhi or the Turiya state. In that state, when all dualities vanish, Brahman will be realized. That is the essence of the Vedas. It is available today for you and me!

      As regards Krishna, there are different interpretations. Some of us Hindus hold him to be an Avatar of Vishnu. Some of us look to him as an allegorical figure. It is speculated that Badarayana or Vyasa, the composer of the Mahabharatha, ALSO composed the BG. The BG, as I said before, summarizes the Vedanta.

      Regarding the risk thing that you keep talking about, I already answered it saying that it is just a modified version of Pascal’s wager. But this lets you down. Arent you telling me indirectly that it is out of “fear” of eternal hellfire that you are Muslim? Why live in fear?

    • @Faizi

      I think the major differences of Islam and Hindu believes are
      1) In Islam Allah is superior and his creations are inferior (to him) while in Hinduism the God itself is the creative force and creation.
      2) In Islam, the Moksha means gaining the jannat forever while in Hinduism, its raising oneself to the supreme consciousness and oneness with God.
      3) In Islam there were limited number of prophets on Earth and in Hinduism its limitless Gurus and everyone can become a Guru or prophet. Everyone can contact the supreme consciousness and attain any highest level of intellect/spirituality.

      It’s true that for a society, Islam is a well structured and simple to follow in comparison with Vedas. It’s a small book which talks very strictly on rules definitely makes a common man’s life easy to rely upon and lead his life. Vedas in other hand is not just for someone to lead one’s life but leads to the ultimate knowledge of self – everything. It cannot be just studied and understood but realize the truth oneself as we cannot really express a sensual feeling – taste, smell etc – to anyone but just make them feel of it – ‘realize’ it.

  41. we have tested quran, it is forever, it has every solution of life. Regarding other buks yes we hv writen acording to this century nd trying our best we hv buk on every topic, there is no confusion. I hv displayed it in many book fares nd got the cmnts. 2nd thing aryasamaji dnt belive in other buk except veda, u cn this site only. 3rd if u believe in yoni change then nothing cn stop u doing wrong, taking bribe etc. It is only hel nd paradise concept which stops u.

    • @faizi:

      No, the Quran is not eternal. Because in 500 AD, before Mohammed took birth, people couldnt not have possibly believe in him.

      That is why I said that a path of attaining Moksha can be called eternal ONLY if it does NOT take recourse to any historical figure. 🙂

      Now, tell me which is more eternal…the Vedas which preach unity [nonduality] as a means of moksha or the Quran according to which belief in Mohammed [a historical figure] is a prerequisite for Jannah.

      Come on now, be honest.

  42. The 4 Varnas are required for any society to grow. The most modern example applied globally of the 4 varna system is the execution of EPC projects. In these projects, Engineering represents the Brahmin varna or those who give knowledge inputs, the Project management represents the Kshatriya varna who controls and drive all the process to work, Procurement represents the Vaishya varna who take responsibility to reach all the materials to the worksite and the Construction represents the Shudra varna which takes all the inputs from the other varnas and physically contributes to build the project. Without any one of these functions, the project is not going to succeed.

    • @faizi:

      it is like exam, as teacher say if u read nd work hard ull pas nd if u nt do hard work uil fail but there is no exam after dat.

      But Ah…the analogy doesnt hold because the teacher keeps changing the book all the time. On the one hand the teacher in 100 AD gave a book written in Hebrew/Aramic. Then, all of a sudden in 700/800 AD, the teacher changed the script to Arabic. 🙁 Poor students are all confused. What would happen to those students who only knew Sanskrit/Hindi/Bengali/Tamil/etc.? They automatically failed 🙁

      In any case, I think I have discussed quite a lot with you. From going through the posts, you have many many unanswered questions which you keep jumping over not answering. If you want to continue, go back to the beginning of my interaction with you and answer questions one by one.

      Good bye for now!

    • Well, talking about exam analogy, why only 1 attempt to pass an exam? What if the students falls sick before the exams or has an accident, should he not be allowed a second chance? Is this not be unjust? Even a worldy system of examination seems more lenient than your “most merciful” allah, because they will under compassionate grounds allow you at least more than 1 chance to pass an exam.

      • @SDC:

        What if the students falls sick before the exams or has an accident, should he not be allowed a second chance?

        Great question…But alas, Allah is the greatest of disciplinarians! I asked a question about this once to a Momin…he gave me a weird answer about how children, when they die before the age of 10, automatically go to heaven. Then, the next question is, why does Allah allow you and me to grow to 11 years of age and remain Kufrs? It would have been much better for us Kufrs if we died by 10 years of age.

        Question to All Momins:

        If you die when you are 90 years old, on day of resurrection, how old will you be? Will your “organ” be capable of acting like the way it did when you were, say, 30? Ahem Ahem…

      • @ Kalbhairav,
        Can’t you see brother.. if you die at 90 Allah will make you young again yaar… come on use your logic!!!… Allah has also provided facility for you if you want to live with your Family… if all the members of your family attain Jannah then you all can live as a family in Jannah too… that means you will be 33 years old, your dad will be 33, mother will be 33, grandmother will be 33, Grandpa will be 33 , daughter will be 33, Son will be 33… 🙂 … You will have “Hoors” to enjoy, Your son, your dad.. everybody.. no one will commit a sin, you will hear no lies, there will be no Tiredness, you will be given strength of a 1000 men… Although you might hear your Best friend or Cousin or your Favourite Teacher of your Primary School or a Poor man you once saw lying on the footpath growling howling in pain in the Hell.. still your mind will not be affected by it as you will programmed to enjoy enjoy and enjoy… 🙂 This is True Spirituality KB… tumhare bas ki baat nahi hai.. tum nahi Samjhoge 🙁 … you continue babbling about your Disgusting Vedas that teaches Universal Peace, Talks about ‘Shanti’ in each and every atom of the universe.. talks about World as a Family… talks about Women as the ‘Shakti’ the force of life, teaches Self Realization and Self Control…talks about God being within us as our Eternal Guide…… Grow Up man!!

      • @ Kalbhairav,
        Can’t you see brother.. if you die at 90 Allah will make you young again yaar… come on use your logic!!!… Allah has also provided facility for you if you want to live with your Family… if all the members of your family attain Jannah then you all can live as a family in Jannah too… that means you will be 33 years old, your dad will be 33, mother will be 33, grandmother will be 33, Grandpa will be 33 , daughter will be 33, Son will be 33… 🙂 … You will have “Hoors” to enjoy, Your son, your dad.. everybody.. no one will commit a sin, you will hear no lies, there will be no Tiredness, you will be given strength of a 1000 men… Although you might hear your Best friend or Cousin or your Favourite Teacher of your Primary School or a Poor man you once saw lying on the footpath growling howling in pain in the Hell.. still your mind will not be affected by it as you will be programmed to enjoy enjoy and enjoy… 🙂 This is True Spirituality KB… tumhare bas ki baat nahi hai.. tum nahi Samjhoge 🙁 … you continue babbling about your Disgusting Vedas that teaches Universal Peace, Talks about ‘Shanti’ in each and every atom of the universe.. talks about World as a Family… talks about Women as the ‘Shakti’ the force of life, teaches Self Realization and Self Control…talks about God being within us as our Eternal Guide…… Grow Up man!!

  43. kal g, se the cmnts of ram haha, ur theory nt believed by hindus. First person adam a.s. Was prophet after that in evry buk given to prophets it is mentiond abt hazrat mohammad s.a.w, quran say torah nd injel wer from God. But peoples changed them, nw u cn se thousands bibles. Quran has no change. Previous buks nd prophet were are nt to folow when new prophet come. Quran say that was buk, u believe in it but folow new one, nw it is til the of qayamat. No new buk wil come, it is for forever so it is preserved. Basic principles are same like tawheed, day of judgment. If it is frm God nd it is saying nw believ me nd folow me then hw culd u say no no i’l believe first one. A gud article u cn read http://www.towards-understanding-islam.com, pleas read then u cn ask anything.

    • Quran has no change, and so there are more than 1 version of the “unchangeable” quran. Now, this is the height of idiocy. Anyways, you are entitled to screwed-up notions.

  44. kal g, dnt u c diference of time?? Poor studnt nt changed? Where is ur mind?? Yeh u hv talked enough, go nd think abt it that when language changed teacher, time, nd poor student every one changed. Yeah u hv answered everything. U r changing only language?? This is ur way of analysing.

  45. kal g, i dnt knw sanskrit then what abt veda, what wil poor tamil, bengali tamil, japani, punjabi etc wil do? original Veda is in every languages of india?? If i cn learn sanskrt then cn i nt learn arabi. Y dnt u undrstand? Any third person tel me what is right answer.

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