Basically, out present attitude towards women streams from our religious scriptures which refer to women as contempt. Our oldest book are the ‘Vedas’ which contain highly objectionable and condemnable passages concerning women. ‘Sati pratha’ (custom of burning the widow with the body of her husband), ‘Dasi Pratha’ (keeping the slave girls), ‘Niyog Pratha’ (ancient Aryan custom of childless widow or women having sexual intercourse with a man other than husband to beget child), were among cruel customs responsible for the plight of the women.
Naturally, seeking shelter under such religious sanctions, unscrupulous women disgraced women to the maximum possible extent and made them means of satisfying their lust. No one wanted a daughter. As a result; female infant came to be considered unwanted. No one wanted a daughter. Everyone was interested in having a son. The birth of the son was celebrated, but the birth of the daughter plunged family into gloom. This attitude still persists, even though certain other customs have undergone changes. ‘Rig Veda’ itself says that a women should beget sons. The newly married wife is blessed so that she could have 10 sons.
Agniveer:
Too many dialogues in the allegations, but here are the facts:
1. There is not even one single verse in Vedas that demeans women. On contrary there are a huge number of verses that glorify women to a level that is impossible to understand even by modern feminist intellectuals. http://agniveer.com/1291/women-in-vedas/ gives a very small sample.
2. Sati Pratha has nothing to do with Vedas. Vedas, on contrary, appeal to a widow to start life afresh and not waste life merely remembering the past.
3. Dasi Pratha was a gift of Christian, Muslim and Jew cultures or their predecessors. There is nothing about this in Vedas. However Testaments and Quran (modern versions) are replete with it.
4. Niyog Pratha was a social custom to beget a child that was prevalent in all societies and more so in Biblical and Quranic society. Bible, Quran and Hadiths are full of such references. But Vedas have no mention of Niyog. People have interpreted vedic verses to create social custom of Niyog to prevent prostitution in emergency situations. But neither is it a Vedic order nor a compulsory practice in Aryan society. On contrary, many a prophets of Christianity and Islam got children from slave-girls but never made them their wives! Prophet Abraham is supposed to have even attempted to abandon his slave-girl to death after having child from her. Prophet Muhammad is supposed to have the only son from his slave Maria. God only knows the veracity of these stories and support for sex-slavery in Bible and Quran. But as far as Vedas are concerned, any relation apart from one single wife/husband is clearly considered to be cause of miseries.
The foundation of Hinduism is the Vedas. So if one has to prove that Hinduism demeans Vedas, he must show that Vedas demean women. If Mulayam Singh Yadav, being a Hindu, talks of appeasing Jihadi terrorists, that does not mean Hinduism aka Vedas justify Jihad!
5. This is true that for last 1000 years birth of son was celebrated and birth of daughter plunged family into gloom. But this was not because of a Vedic injunction. On contrary, there are specific verses in Vedas that pray for begetting daughters! Refer Rigveda 10.159.3, Rigveda 8.31.8 and Rigveda 9.67.10. I do not know if Quran and Bible also have such verses.
The reason why birth of a daughter became a curse in last 1000 years was due to the butchers from West and Central Asia coming in name of Islamic Jihad to kill men and rape women. The entire history of last 1000 years is full of resistance against these terrorists. Thus people wanted sons who could fight these terrorists or at least not be raped by them the way they used to rape women. Birth of daughter thus became a curse because safeguarding the dignity of a daughter was a challenging task. This is why purdah system came in India. This is why dowry system became prevalent – ensuring safety of women became a risky thing. And soon these evil practices became part of the culture. However Vedas are complete against all this and it is time we get back to Vedas.
6. The word ‘Putra’ in Vedas is generic and does not necessarily mean a son but implies a child. This is same as ‘mankind’ does not mean only men but all human beings. In most mantras of Vedas though, word ‘Praja’ is used which again means children. As mentioned previously, there are mantras which desire specifically a daughter. For example, Rigveda 10.159.3, 8.31.8, 9.67.10, Yajurveda 22.22, Rigveda 4.32.23 and Atharvaveda 10.3.20. Thus all these claims of Vedas being male-centric is childish at the best.
2. Allegation of Hinduism hater:
Agniveer:
1. Punsawan Sanskar is recommended for aspirants of both sons and daughters. So there is no male bias here.
2. The mantra meaning has been distorted to suit the agenda. The mantra has a deep meaning. But simply put it means that: “By Grace of Ishwar, woman is able to have a womb and nurture the child therein. May the woman have a son if she desires and planned so ELSE she may have a girl.”
Thus the mantra simply implies that if couple has planned for a boy, may boy be born else girl be born. What translators have done is to translate ‘Anyatra’ as ‘Elsewhere’ instead of ‘In other condition or else’.
3. The Vedic methods of procreation suggest ways of deciding either a boy or a girl. But regardless of the case, Punsawan Sanskar is practiced by all Veda followers. Hence there is no gender bias here.
3. Allegation of Hinduism hater:
“O Husband protect the son to be born. Do not make him a women” – Atharva Ved 2/3/23
Agniveer:
Again case of wrong translation. Actual translation is “Protect the child in womb from infections and diseases. Be it a girl or boy, may it not be troubled.”
Here again, “Ma Pumansam Striyam Kran” is translated as “Do not make boy in womb into a girl”. But how can gender change in womb after fertilization? Actual meaning is “Do not trouble male or female child”.
4. Allegation of Hinduism hater:
In ‘Shatpath Puran (shatpath Brahman)’ a sonless women has been termed as unfortunate.
Agniveer:
Vague allegation. Kindly show the verse. In any case, Vedas are evidence in matters of Hinduism and not Shatpath. But first reproduce the verse please!
5. Allegation of Hinduism hater:
‘Rig Veda’ censures women by saying: ”Lord Indra himself has said that women has very little intelligence. She cannot be taught” – Rig Ved 8/33/17
Agniveer:
Actual meaning: Do not try to rule over the thought process of woman. She can think very fast and in multiple dimensions.
This is also true. Women can think and connect at emotional levels that is impossible for men. That is why women can nurture children in ways men cannot even think of.
What translators have done is to distort ‘Ashasyam’ to mean ‘cannot be taught’ while it means ‘cannot be ruled’ . Then they translated ‘Raghum’ to mean ‘little’ while it actually means ‘agile’ or ‘able to move rapidly in variety of locations’ or ‘dynamic’. That is why Raghu of Raghukul to which Ram belonged was named so.
6. Allegation:
At another place in Rig Veda it is written: ”There cannot be any friendship with a women. Her heart is more cruel than heyna” – Rig Ved 10/95/15.
Agniveer:
1. First there is a spelling mistake that is seen in ALL versions of this article I could check on the net. No one even bothered to read it once! It is ‘hyena’ and not ‘heyna’.
2. This mantra from the celebrated ‘Pururava-Urvashi sukta’ is completely out of context. All Hinduism-bashers including some home-grown pseudo-intellectuals cite this sukta to showcase vulgarity in Vedas! Some have written cheap poems on this. In reality, this Sukta from 10th Mandal is among the most deeply-meaning Sukta of entire vedas. In fact, entire 10th Mandal of Rig Veda contains very deep knowledge of universe and its mechanisms of actions. They also convey subtly other lessons especially in realm of politics and country-management.
Thus the particular mantra can be interpreted variously. The particular mantra is part of an allegorical conversation between Pururava and Urvashi. Pururava has several meanings like Cloud, Air and Person. Urvashi means electricity, speech or a woman. Thus the mantra, rather Sukta, provides deep insights. Let us try to understand the context by taking it as conversation. Interestingly this mantra is uttered by the woman herself!
From this context, the Sukta is a disussion between a man who is attached to the woman and is ignoring his duties to the country as a general. The woman advises him in this mantra that: Do not run away from your duties due to indulgence in a woman. Do not share confidential details of country with anyone. They may be wolves in garb who want to destroy you and your country. A woman befriended for sensual purposes is a wolf in disguise. Hence stay away from sensual vices to protect the country.
3. Thus the mantra advises sane persons to stay away from womenizing. Based on this, Bharateeya Rajaneeti also recommends the king to not share confidential matters of nation even with his wife. I believe that if all citizens of the country start following this advice, stay away from womenizing and consider women only as beings deserving highest respect (and not affection out of lust), our country would be much different. World knows of incidents where womanizing has led to downfall of families and nations. Those studying history would know of cases where seductresses have inflicted heaviest damage to countries by fooling the leaders. Thus Vedas recommend leaders to be even more disciplined Brahmacharis than ordinary citizens.
The deep meanings of mantra also unravel that all those women indulged in luring people by glamor – read actresses, models etc – are basically wolves in disguise. So far the country keeps adoring the Aishwarya Rais and Kareenas and Katrinas and ignoring Rani Laxmis and Ahilya Bais and Rani Karnavatis, we simply cannot prosper. Glam-girls are wolves in disguise. And when political leadership starts getting close to them, nothing can be better recipe for national disaster. This mantra thus asserts that considering women as objects for sensual pleasure is not advisable.
4. A similar allegation is put on Adi Shankaracharya quoting ‘Naari Narakasya Dwaram’ or ‘Woman is gateway to Hell’ from one of his texts. The truth is that the great Shankaracharya referred ONLY to sensual attachment to women and NOT women in general. On women in general, he writes in Matru Stuti – ‘I humbly bow to that motherly woman who faces so much of labor pain. Forget about other sacrifices that the mother undertakes, we cannot repay even for the pain she has to bear when she carries us in her womb.’ This is the real Vedic approach towards women.
7. Allegation:
‘Yajur Ved (Taitriya Sanhita)- “Women code says that the women are without energy. They should not get a share in property. Even to the wicked they speak in feeble manner” [Yajur Ved 6/5/8/2]
Shatpath Puran, preachings of the ‘Yajur Veda’ clubs women, ‘shudras’ (untouchables), dogs, crows together and says falsehood, sin and gloom remain integrated in them. [14/1/1/31]
In ‘Aiterey Puran’, preaching of the ‘Rig Veda’ in Harsih Chandra – Narad dialogue, Narad says: “The daughter causes pain”
Agniveer:
1. The first reference is not clear. In any case Taitriya Samhita is not original Yajurveda. Kindly provide a reference from actual Yajurveda (Madhyandina Shukla Yajurveda Samhita to be specific, which is the actual Veda Samhita).
2. There is no text called Shatpath Puran and Aiterey Puran. They are Shatpath and Aitereya Brahmans. In any case, again these references are not from Vedas. Further we request the author of these allegations to provide the exact verse.
DESPICABLE
8. Allegation:
To insult and humiliate women further, the Hindu scriptures depict women of having ****** *********** with animals or expressing desire for ********** with them. What greater insult can be heaped upon women than this!
Such references are found at a number of places in Yajur Veda, where the principal wife of the host is depicted as having *********** with a horse. For example, consider the following hymn:
“All wife of the host reciting three mantras go round the horse. While praying, they say: ‘O horse, you are, protector of the community on the basis of good qualities, you are, protector or treasure of happiness. O horse, you become my husband.’” [Yajur Veda 23/19.]
After the animal is purified by the priest, the principal wife sleeps near the horse and says:“O Horse, I extract the ***** worth conception and you release the ***** worth conception’” [Yajur Veda 23/20]
The horse and principal wife spread two legs each. Then the Ardhvaryu (priest) orders to cover the oblation place, raise canopy etc. After this, the principal wife of the host pulls ***** of the horse and puts it in her ****** and says: “This horse may release ***** in me.” [Yajur Veda 23/20]
Then the host, while praying to the horse, says: “O horse, please throw ***** on the upper part of the **** of my wife. Expand your ***** and insert it in the ****** because after insertion, this ***** makes women happy and lively” [23/21]
Certain words have been removed because they were extremely vulgar. You can check the original text elsewhere on internet.
Agniveer:
1. Again, it seems that the porn lovers have lifted the translations from western indologists or translators who existed during era of Muslim Sultanate in India. Because such stupid translations are found nowhere else! Here are actual meanings:
2. Yajurveda 23.19: O master of all people, we submit ourselves to be guided by you alone. O the most loved one among all loved ones, we submit ourselves to be guided by you alone. O provider of knowledge and prosperity, we submit ourselves to be guided by you alone. May I be able the understand, with your blessings, the Nature that has produced my own body and world, and is controlled by you alone.
3. Yajurveda 23.20: O ruler and the subject! You should expand bliss for everyone by putting efforts for benevolent actions, developing resources, achieving desires of soul and hence obtaining salvation. May the subject support and strengthen the ruler so that he can control the criminals. The mantra can be interpreted for Ishwar. Ishwar is the ruler and we are the subject. We should cooperate with Ishwar in his mission to bring bliss to all of us. Only in this manner is purpose of creation justified.
4. Yajurveda 23.21: O powerful ruler, one who earns by exploiting women should be hung upside down and severely punished. (The message of Vedas is clear for all indulged in cheap business that exploit women. And if this ruler does not do that, Ishwar, for sure would hang them upside down through Law of Karma)
5. Thus the very mantras that glorify dignity of women are being quoted as references against women in Vedas!
CUSTOM OF POLYGAMY
9. Allegation:
In the Vedic age, the customs of polygamy was prevalent. Each wife spent most of the time devising ways and means to become favorite to her husband. Clear references are available in Rig Veda 14/45, and Atharva Veda 3/81.
Agniveer:
1. Rigveda has 10 Mandals. So Rigveda 14.45 does not exist. Kindly provide at least an authentic reference even though the translation may be fake!
2. Again Atharva Veda Kand 3 has only 37 Suktas. We do not know which Atharva Veda has these references.
3. Please refer http://agniveer.com/621/polygamy/ where hoax of Polygamy in Vedas has been thoroughly debunked.
10. Allegation:
The Aryans in those days used to attack the original inhabitants of this place, or other tribe within their own race, loot them and snatch away their women. Thus, these militant, wicked men had more wives. This custom of polygamy helped a great deal in bringing down the women. Rig Ved 10/59 says that Lord Indra had many queens that were either defeated or killed by his principal wife.
Agniveer:
1. Any evidence, manuscripts or any vague reference to hypothesis of either Aryan invasion theory or Aryans being a race or even any tribe claiming to be Arya killing or plundering anyone? Please cite a single reference to this most stupid hoax of Aryan Invasion.
2. Rig Veda 10.59 has 10 mantras. They talk about rebirth and law of karma. None has any reference to any wife of any Indra committing any murders. We request the ‘allegators’ to provide exact reference.
11. Allegation:
In ‘Aitrey Puran’, preachings of ‘Rig Veda’, (33/1), Harish Chandra is referred to have had 100 wives.
Agniveer:
Again, please provide exact reference from this non-Vedic text. (We consider only Vedas as benchmark for Hinduism).
12. Allegation:
‘Yajur Veda’ in the context of ‘Ashva Medha’ (Horse Sacrificing ceremony) says that many wives of Harish Chandra participated in the ‘Yagyna’ (religious sacrifice).
In ‘Shatpath Puran (Shatpath Brahmin)’, preachings [13/4/1/9] of the Veda, it is written that four wives do service in ‘Ashva Megha’. In another place, Puran [Tatiraity Brahamin, 3/8/4] says wives are like property
Agniveer:
Again a very vague allegation from non-Vedic sources. Kindly cite exact mantras. Ashva Medha is the process of strengthening the nation and not any material Yajna or has anything to do with Horse. Please refer http://agniveer.com/68/no-beef-in-vedas/ for details.
13. Allegation:
Not only one man had many wives (married and slave girls), but there were cases of many men having a joint wife. It is confirmed from the following hymn in ‘Atharva Veda’: “O men, sow a seed in this fertile women” [Atharva Veda 14/1]
Agniveer:
1. This time we have something from Vedas but reference is wrong. Atharve Veda 14.1 has 64 mantras. None has anything remotely close to this nonsense.
2. By the way, all versions of the article carry the same mistake of having ‘women’ and not ‘woman’ showing that someone wrote it out of hatred knowing well that he is lying and others blindly copied in similar hatred. No one bothered to actually verify before publishing.
3. The actual mantra that can be misinterpreted in this manner is Atharve Veda 14.2.14 which belongs to the Sukta that details duties of husband and wife. All mantras refer to a single couple only. This particular mantra means, “O Men! Each of you first bring strength and vitality in yourselves and then each of you procreate noble children from your respective wife.” Since the mantra addresses men in general but wants to emphasize that only one woman is permitted as per Vedas for each man, woman is addressed in singular.
4. For more skeptic ones, also refer to all the mantras before and after this particular mantra. The meaning becomes extremely clear. They all refer to one single couple and not one husband-multiple wives or one wife-multiple husbands anywhere.
14. Allegation:
Both these customs clearly show that a women was treated like a moving property. The only difference between the two customs was that whereas according to former one man had a number of movable properties, in the latter, women a joint movable property.
Agniveer:
In http://agniveer.com/621/polygamy/ it has been clearly proven that Vedas recommend only monogamy for both husband and wife. I believe that in light of above analysis, those who have spread otherwise would be humble enough to come forth and apologize for their baseless claims. Unless they want to portray that they stand only for fraud, deceit and hatred.
Its another matter that apart from Vedas, no text – Bible or Quran (whatever version is popularized today) ever considered women as anything apart from property. Refer http://agniveer.com/series/womenislam/ and http://agniveer.com/1267/i-am-a-christian-woman/
VEDAS ALSO SANCTION SATI PRATHA
15. Allegation:
Widow was burnt at the funeral Pyre of her husband. The widow was burnt at the funeral pyre of her husband so that she may remain his slave, birth after birth and may never be released from the bonds of slavery.
The Atharva Veda says: “O dead man following the religion and wishing to go to the husbands world, his women comes to you. In the other world also may you give her children and wealth in the same manner. In the ‘Vedas’, widow is treated inhumanly. For example it is mentioned that on death of her husband, the wife was handed over to some other man, or to her husband younger brother.
Agniveer:
1. Again a blind allegation without any reference whatsoever.
2. Our challenge is open to all – Cite one single verse in all 4 Vedas that justify Sati Pratha, or support polygamy, or insult women, or justify sex-slavery and we shall quit Vedic Dharma.
3. Let us add one more allegation referring to Rigveda 10.18.7 which Hindu-haters translate to mean “widow woman should go into fire”. However what the shameless haters have done is to change the word “Agre” in the mantra (which means going ahead) to “Agne” which means fire. The mantra by the way has nothing about widow. It means that: In matters of household management, wife should be the leader.
16. Allegation:
Swami Vivekananda opines that even at that time women used to have sexual intercourse with a person other than her husband to beget a child. The hymn says: “O woman, get up and adopt the worldly life again. It is futile to lie with this dead man. Get up and become the wife of the man who is holding your hand and who loves you. [Rig Ved 10/18/8]. Apparently this shows that woman is considered to be a property. Whenever and whosoever desired, could become her master.
Agniveer:
1. Opinion of Vivekananda or practice of ‘that’ time is none of our concern. Many Hindus go to worship graves or even support Jihadi terrorists of Kashmir. That does not make this a practice sanctioned by Vedas or Hinduism.
2. The meaning of this mantra provided has been slightly distorted and misinterpreted to suit one’s mindset of hatred. Actual meaning is:”O woman, get up from here and come back to the world of living ones. Do not waste your life in grief of one who is dead. You have the children of the person who had held your hand and became your husband, to take care of. ”
3. The next mantra (where this mantra comes in Atharva Veda 18th Chapter) refers to a childless widow. It says: “I have seen a young widow rising up from grief of dead to marry again and start her life again away from gloom and darkness.”
4. Thus the mantras give the noble lesson that a widow should not continue repenting on dead one but start life afresh and continue with her responsibilities. These mantras form the foundation in which widow-remarriage is encouraged and Sati Pratha is discouraged. And fools quote these very mantras to showcase the entirely opposite stand!
17. Allegation:
If the women was not remarried, then her head was shaved. This is evident from Atharva Veda (14/2/60). This custom was obviously meant to disgrace her. For what connection does shaving of widows head has with the death of her husband? The condition of widows was miserable. She was considered to be a harbinger of inauspiciousness and was not allowed to participate in ceremonies like marriage. This custom is still prevalent in some places. She has to spend her life alone.
Agniveer:
1. Einstein said “Two things are infinite – universe and stupidity. And I am not sure about the previous.” Reading all this, I am beginning to believe in this statement. Just see, the allegation started with Vedas justfying Sati Pratha or death of wife after husband was dead, and now they take it to forced remarriage! This is called reverse engineering. No matter what it takes, the fools have already decided the conclusion and are working backwards.
2. Let us analyze this mantra (among very few ones whose proper reference is provided). This 14th Chapter relates to duties of marriage. This refers to marriage and not re-marriage in first place. It means: “May your daughter never weep with open hair in grief of parting away with loved ones because she is getting married in distant place. To ensure this, console and support her in matured manner.” This is a common scene at least in Hindu marriages where the daughter is aggrieved on leaving her home and her parents console her. The allegator just saw the word ‘Vikesha’ and forced this stupid meaning from infinity! There is no reference to any widow or death whatsoever in any mantra in the entire Sukta!
3. But I agree that condition of widows has been miserable for several centuries. This has been primarily because the first targets of all butchers who invaded from West Asia in name of Islam was to rape women – be it army of Qasim, Ghazni, Ghori, Khilji, Lodhi, Babur, Akbar or whosoever. Thus widows would have no one to even fight and lay their life for their dignity. Thus widowhood started being regarded as a curse. And soon it became a evil practice. Thanks to efforts of 19th century reformers especially Arya Samaj, this is no more the case with Hindu society that knows Vedic Dharma.
4. But the plight of women in Pakistan is extremely horrible. With no rights for divorce and the shameful Hudood ordinance, it has been a nightmare being a woman in a Muslim dominated country. Refer http://agniveer.com/series/womenislam/ for details. Christian women are better off because none of them takes Bible seriously and Churches go empty. They rather seek to align with Vedic Dharma to extent possible, though unknowingly. But if you are a nun, the world knows how they are exploited by spiritual fathers.
18. Allegation:
In Rig Veda there are references to slave girls being given in charity as gifts. After killing the men-folk of other tribes, particularly of the native inhabitants, their women were rounded up and used as slave girls. It was custom to present slave girls to one other as gifts. The kings used to present chariots full of slave girls to their kith and kin and priests (Rig Veda 6/27/8). King Trasdasyu had given 50 slave girls. It was custom to present slave girls to Saubhri Kandav (Rig Veda 8/38, 5/47/6).
Agniveer:
1. Not again! The mantra in 6.27.8 has a ‘Vadhu’ word which has been misquoted blatantly and foolishly. The sukta refers to national security. The actual mantra means: “May the wise king appoint a council of 20 able dynamic persons to create strategies to defend the nation from enemies.” The word “Vadhumatah” means one who is capable and dexterous in handling multiple situations smartly.
2. The reference to King Trasadasyu has been wrongly given again showcasing that no one even bothered to check the references. But whatever be the case, Tradasyu means one who defeats terrorists and criminals and hence ensures peace and progress. Saubhari means a noble person who takes care of students well. The actual mantra in Rigveda 8.19.36 means: “The king who is very philantrophic and protector of noble ones, who has defeated the terrorists has provided me 50 Vadhus.”
3. Now question is that what does Vadhu mean? Vadhu means anything that brings strength, vitality, protection or bliss. Since Vedic philosophy believes that women are source of all happiness that come in a society, Vadhu refers to a new bride who enters home of in-laws. Thus it can refer to a daughter-in-law or wife or a bride in general. It can also mean an armed force that protects the nation. Thus in no way the mantra refers to slave girls. If you take literal meaning of bride, then it means that King gave 50 already-wed women to a teacher. Obviously it then means that he arranged for marriage of his graduating students. But a more sensible meaning would be that the king gave a battalion of 50 to a general to protect the country. But no way, can it refer to a slave girl.
4. Rig Veda 5.47.6 mentions that: “Those educated women who happily choose their husbands and then give birth to noble children, plan and train their life and those of children in same manner as one weaves a cloth from threads slowly and steadily.” Again, mere presence of root Vadhu made them create all these imaginations.
INTERCOURSE WITHOUT MARRIAGE
19. Allegation:
A slave girl was called ‘Vadhu’ (wife), with whom sexual intercourse could be performed without any kind of marriage ceremony. These girls belonged to the men who snatched them from the enemies, or who had received them in dowry, or as gifts. Only the men to whom they belonged could have sexual intercourse with them. But some slave girls were kept as joint property of the tribe or the village. Any man could have sexual relations with them. These girls became the prostitutes. The ‘Vedas’ also talk about ‘Niyog’, the custom of childless, widow or woman having sexual intercourse with a person other than her husband to beget a child.
In simple words ‘Niyog’ means sending a married woman or a widow to a particular man for sexual intercourse so that she gets a son. Indication of this custom is available in ‘Rig Veda’ In ‘Aadiparva’ of ‘Mahabharata’ (chap. 95 and 103), it is mentioned that Satywati had appointed her son to bestow sons to the queens of Vichitrvirya, the younger brother of Bhishma, as a result of which Dhratrashtra and Pandu were born.
Pandu himself has asked his wife, Kunti, to have sexual intercourse with a Brahmin to get a son [Aadi Parva, chapters 120.23]
Agniveer:
1. Again a vague allegation. We have provided meaning of Vadhu. Kindly state which dictionary gives so. Even the most modern Amarkosh 3.102 simply states “Vadhurjaya Snusha Stree Cha” or “Vadhu means Wife, Daughter-in-law or Woman”.
2. No reference whatsoever of this fancy story on prostitution, tribe, property etc etc. Perhaps this emanates from Semitic influences where women is merely for satsifaction for lust, and not Vedas which state that woman are source of all goodness in society. Where we pray that may we obtain the Teja of noble ladies!
3. Niyog has been discussed earlier. No need for repetition except that Vedas do not get into these details. They simply recommend a monogamous relationship between one man and one woman for a purposeful non-lustful life. Of course they do recommend that one should start a goal-oriented life after death of husband and not get into either depression or prostitution.
4. As for Mahabharat, well thats a historical text full of interpolations and written in an era when the Vedic values were already dwindling. However evidence in matter of Dharma can come only from Vedas. So kindly cite Vedic references.
5. In any case, even if Niyog existed, that was for men and women alike. Further that was optional and not compulsory. Thus how is this relevant for a discussion on Women Issues?
6. As for intercourse without marriage, Vedas strictly recommend against it. They recommend a relationship between man and woman that is based on commitments and for a purpose. Hidden relationships or goalless relationships are both rejected. Further both man and woman have same rights. However, modern Quran makes blatant mockery of Women Rights. Refer http://agniveer.com/series/womenislam/. Modern Bible, predecessor of Quran, is equally insulting of women. Refer http://agniveer.com/1267/i-am-a-christian-woman/
And for modern western society with all its emphasis on feminism, pre-marital sex is more of a law than an exception. So what benchmarks do we have to put the allegations on Vedas in first place, forget about they carrying weight or not.
CHASTITY OF WOMEN WAS NOT SAFE
2o. Allegation:
In the name of ‘beejdan’ (seed donation), they used to have sexual intercourse with issueless women. This was a cruel religious custom and the chastity of the women was not safe. The so called caretakers of the religion were allowed to have sexual intercourse with other man’s wife. From ‘Niyog pratha’ it can be inferred without fear of contradiction that women were looked upon as mere child producing machines.
In The Position of women in Hindu Civilization, Dr. B. R. Ambedkar writes: “Though women is not married to man, she was considered to be a property of the entire family. But she was not getting share out of the property of her husband, only son could be successor to the property.”
Gajdhar Prasad Baudh says [Arya Niti Ka Bhadaphor, 5th ed., p. 14]: “No woman of the Vedic age can be treated as pure. Vedic man could not keep even the relations brother-sister and father-daughter sacred from the oven of rape and debauchery/adultery named ‘Niyog’. Under the influence of intoxication of wine, they used to recognize neither their sister nor their daughter and also did not keep the relations with them in mind. It is evident from their debauchery and adultery what a miserable plight of women was society in then.”
Agniveer:
1. Once more vague allegations and no reference. Once more my request: Cite authentic references from Vedas to claim anything for Hinduism and not some historical allegations.
2. Ambedkar is not an authority on Hinduism. He admits in his writings that he has no knowledge of Sanskrit and has referred only to western authors in translations of Vedas.
3. And who is this Gajdhar Prasad Baudh? Yet another Prophet or reincarnation of some old prophet that his words are taken so seriously?
4. As for incest (brother-sister or father-daughter relationship), Vedas recommend harshest punishment that sets example for society. Further, wine drinking is considered a foolish act. In fact anything that dumbs mind – wine, lust or anger – is considered foolishness in Vedic custom. But may be this new Prophet has come with some new revelations! We request your new Prophet to cite specific references instead of vague allegations. (I know this statement is getting repetitious but we have no other option)
21. Allegation:
In the ‘Vedas’ there are instances where daughter was impregnated by her father and the sister by her brother. The following example of sexual intercourse is found between father and daughter in the ‘Rig Veda’: “When father had sexual intercourse with his daughter, then with the help of earth he released his semen and at that time the Righteous Devas (deities) formed this ‘Vartrashak (Rudra) Devta’ (Pledge keeper deity named Rudra)” [Atharva Veda 20/96/15].
Agniveer:
1. Please re-read the allegation. First sentence mentions that reference is in Rig Veda and the actual reference is provided from Atharva Veda! This itself proves the intent and intellect of those who have created and are propagating the allegation.
2. Let us first provide meaning of Atharva Veda 20.96.15. It says: We shall destroy the person who molests/rapes a woman or kills her children posing as her brother or protector. This mantra justifies why punishment for rape is death sentence as per Vedic Dharma.
3. Now let us provide meaning to actual mantra being alleged to have intercourse between father and daughter. This is Rig Veda 1.164.33. The mantra explains the process of food/herb generation through rainfall. It says: Sunlight is like my father because he provides me nourishment and the earth is like my mother because she supports and feeds me. Sun and Earth face each other as if two armies stand against each other. Clouds impregnate the earth with rainfall so that food and herbs are produced that provide us nourishment. Thus this mantra describes a natural phenomenon through allegory and nowhere states that incest is recommended.
4. Please also note that ‘Duhita’ means one obtained from churning. Thus the mantra also implies that earth is formed from a part of sun that separated out in a process similar to churning. Astro-physicists can corroborate if this process of creation of earth from sun is indeed correct or not.
To conclude, let us provide some additional verses on glory of women from Vedas:
1. Rigveda 10.85.46: May you be empress and lead all.
2. Rigveda 4.14.3: O brilliant woman, remove ignorance with your bright intellect and provide bliss to all.
3. Atharva Veda 14.1.47: O woman, may you be strong and powerful like a rock. May you gain brilliance of sun and have a long prosperous life that benefits all.
4. Yajurveda 5.10: O woman, realize your potential. You are a lioness who can destroy criminals, ignorance and vices and protect the noble ones.
5. Yajurveda 10.26: O woman, you provide bliss and stability to world. You are source of valour.
6. Yajurveda 13.18: O woman, you are as strong as earth and are on very high pedestal. Protect the world from path of vices and violence.
7. Yajurveda 13. 26: O woman, you do not deserve to be defeated by challenges. You can defeat the mightiest challenge. Defeat the enemies and their armies. You have valour of thousands. Please us all.
8. Yajurveda 20.84: May the scholarly woman purify our lives with her knowledge, noble actions and guidance.
9. Yajurveda 20.85: Noble woman motivates us to be on path of truth, love and harmony.
10. Rigveda 2.41.16: O woman, you are the motherly force that provides direction to our life.
11. Rigveda 6.61.2: The way a powerful river breaks down even strongest rocks and hills, in same manner an intelligent woman destroys the fraud propagated by perverted ones. May we bow to such intelligent women.
12. Atharvaveda 7.57.1: Whenever I am hurt emotionally or physically, woman – as a mother, wife, sister etc – provides healing touch and rejuvenates me. I bow in humble respect to her.
May all of us realize the glory of women, as elaborated in Vedas, and establish them on highest pedestal!
NOTE: All translations of mantras of Vedas are based on word by word translations in works of scholars like Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Pt Vishwanath Vidyalankar, Pt Jaydeva and Pt Ramnath Vedalankar. Commentaries by Swami Dayanand, Vedic Naari by Pt Ramnath Vedalankar, Vedik Shabdarth Vichar by Pt Ramnath Vedalankar, Vedic Kosh by Pt Rajveer Shastri have been consulted primarily.
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Awesome article !
Agniveer you are great.
Great. I was also after the rebuttal to this same article. U did a wonderful job, thanx for posting it !
While I have tremendous respect to Adi Shankaracharya, it is also true that he disallowed women from learning Vedas. Interpreting a verse from Brihadaryakopanishat on the issue of a daughter becoming a Scholar, Shankaracharya reasons that scholarship here meant only in domestic matters and she has no right to Vedas[ Vede anadhikaaraat] But Shankaracharya while debating with Mandan Mishra had Bharathi as judge.What was the qualification of Bharathi to become the judge in a debate? It is said that Bharathi, knew all Shastras, including the six Vedangas, poety etc. There was nothing that She did not know.
But let it pass. The interpolated versions on Women in Manusmrithi, Puranas, the prolonged political slavery all has contributed in making modern women to look with suspicion on their status as obtaining in Vedas. Your article has cleared the air. Thank you.
“I dedicate this book to my late younger sister, who was murdered as
a result of a dowry-related incident while in full blossom of youth.
Like most sisters, we were very close to one another, and her early
death had a deep impact on me. This tragedy inspired me with the
will to join the Indian feminist movement, and to eventually write
this book. I hope that this work may save the lives of some of my
Indian sisters and help reduce the suffering of Indian womankind.
The reason for writing this book is purely humanitarian, so I have
made this book available in the public domain. The more widely this
book is read, the more innocent lives shall be saved. Please
distribute it freely, and help save Indian women. Thank you in
advance for your efforts. ”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Thanks, I was laughing at the stupidity of this author who put allegations on Vedic Dharma when he would quote from mandals that either did not exist like RigVeda 14.5, or when he would say that a verse is from RigVeda but would quote AtharvaVeda, seriously, these Jihadis are nothing more than personifications of stupidiity.
If Einstein were alive, he would have given an oscar award of stupidity to the author who made these rediculous allegations on Vedas.
Excellent work by the respected Agniveer team.
thanks for this valuable rebuttal.
Hello Agniveer,
I didn’t know where to post this, so I write here.
I’m curious how the Hindus translate those verses below. (Except skipping)
Agniveer, can you please translate those verses for us? If you claim that those verses are mistranslated, can you give us the “correct” translation?
Thanks.
Rig-Veda 10.61.5-7
As his penis was stretched out in eagerness for the act of a man, the manly one pulled back. He drew back again from the maiden, his daughter, that tireless phallus which had been thrust in. As they were in the midst of the very act of union, when the father was satisfying his desire for the younger girl, the two of them left a little of the out-flowing seed shed upon the back of the earth in the womb of good deeds. When the father shed his seed in his own daughter, he split his seed on the earth as he united with her. The benevolent gods created sacred speech and fashioned Rudra Vastospati, the protector of sacred rites….. As Agni made the seed for the great father, heaven , he entered into the womb, having noticed that she was inclined to him. The hunter shot an arrow at him boldly. The god satisfied his lust in his own daughter….As the heat of passion came to the king for his enjoyment, heaven laid aside on the ground the seed that had been spilt. Agni caused to be born the blameless benevolent group of youth and made them great…. Heaven is my father, the engenderer, the navel here. My mother is this wide earth , my close kin , Between these two outstretched bowls is the womb (it is translated as womb literally Vagina-yoni ) in it the father placed his daughter’s embryo. [Translated by Wendy Doniger in her Book Hindu Myths on page 26 )
They say that one burnt in rainy season sees green everywhere. One indulged in porn and lust sees the same everywhere. Same is true with Wendy who earns her living by publishing her porn instincts in name of Vedas. Check yourself and see if the translation your provided is making any meaning whatsoever and is in line with rest of the mantras in sukta.
Here is the word by word translation of mantra:
10.61.5:
Prathishtha Yasya Veerakarmam Ishna Anushthitam- One who has expanded his glorious deeds – that he has been striving for and has achieved in his life – beyond himself
Nu Naryo Apauhat Punah: That noble person alone can relieve himself from his duties after this.
Tat aa Vrihati Yat Kanaya Duhitura: Should marry a brilliant woman or expand his glory far off
Anubhritam Anarva: Have progeny again in peaceful manner
From a context of household matter, this means that one can be relieved of his imminent worldly duties after he has ensured that progeny of his progeny are there to carry his mantle.
In more generic sense, it means that one should strive to promote good deeds to far off places and ensure that there is a new generation ready to take on the good deeds further.
10.61.6:
Yuvatyam Kamam Krinvanam Pitari Madhya: One desiring to be father should in a youthful lady (wife)
Abheeke Yat Kartvam Abhavat – To fulfill their duties that they both cannot completely fulfill
Viyanta Saanau: Should ally together specially (with wife)
Nishiktam Retah Sukritasya Yonau Mananakam Jahatuh: And leave his vitality in home at least once.
In other words, one should leave at least one heir to his heritage by uniting with wife, for purpose of fulfillment of duties. Idiot Doniger translated Yuvati to mean daughter when it means ‘young woman’. The mantra provides natural duties of couples.
10.61.7:
Pita Yat Swam Duhitaram Adhi Skan Kshamaya retah Sanjagmaano Nishinchat: That father who has attempted to create progeny with his wife should accept his daughter as his heir.
Su Adhyah Devah Brahma Ajanayan: Contemplative noble people believe in this knowledge that
Swam Duhitaram Vaastoh Patim: Ones own daughter becomes the inheritor
Vrata Paam Nir Atakshan: From her obtain future progeny.
Thus in summary, the three mantras state that (in context of household affairs):
One is relieved of his duties only when he has ensured that his grandchildren are there to carry his legacy ahead. Thus a wise man should try to have at least one inheritor after him through his wife. In case the child born is a daughter, he should consider daughter as the inheritor and obtain future inheritors through daughter. In other words, whether it is son or daughter, does not make a difference.
The very mantras that talk of women rights are seen as porn by perverts (unfortunately a woman)
Vedas clearly state that only noble self-controlled persons can understand Vedas and it is out of reach of those indulged in perversion.
LOL Mahmad before pointing fingers at us know the history of your islam do you know KAABA BLACK STONE WAS USED AS URINAL BY QARMATIANS. This is told by your own islamic scriptures. The Qarmatians attacked Mecca and Kaaba and urinated on Kaaba Black Stone and took it away and used as urinal for more than 20 years. So muslims are now kissing and worshiping this urinal of Qarmatians. To Know about Qarmatians see in wikipedia.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TBSVI2ATUB7E7MS0H
Wendy Doniger is liar she was caught lying about Sarah Palin, Palin fans exposed her lies which Doniger speaks about Palin and the bitch did not even had the courtesy to apologize for her lies. She (Doniger) does not even know the meaning of the word “Tapas” and claims herself as Sanskrit Scholar, she is Far left or Communist Sadist who get joy in desecrating religions, so next time when she exposes Islam do not get shocked.
Agniveer ji, as usual nice article from your end
Your effort on eradicating false information on Hinduism spread by Hindu bashers is much appreciated. Keep doing this great job
Hope now onwards Hindu bashers try to learn great knowledge from Hindu scriptures instead of spreading false information. I pray God to give them good knowledge
Thanks
Agniveer, if what you wrote is the correct translation then why all of the indologists (including Griffith) AND HINDUS (like Raja Ram) SKIPPED those verses or left them untranslated?
Can you just explain this?
Brother Mahmad
Namaste
If Islam is great then why do Muslim scholars like Anwar Shaikh, Ali Sina, and Ghulam Jelani etc keep saying that Islam is an Arab imperialism and Hadith are scrap? Why do Islamic scholars like Mehboob Ali condemn Islam? Why does Islamic scholar Vajra translate “Alif Laam Meem” as “dont believe in Islam”?
By now, I think, you would have understood what I am trying to convey. People like Griffith dont carry any weight when it comes to Vedic Dharm because his only aim was to demolish Vedas at any cost. We have no reason for believing in Griffith blindly by going against the Rishis of Shatpath Brahman, Gopath Brahman, Upanishads, Darshans, Smritis, Nirukt,Nighantu etc just because a bunch of people consider Griffith as “Indologist”! You can go through “Ved bhaashya bhoomika” by Swami Dayanand and see yourself the truth of this scholar.
Regarding Raja Ram, please get your fact correct here – HE DID NOT TRANSLATE ANY VEDA!
I think this is enough for what you asked. You are welcome for further discussion.
Thanks
“After my sister’s death, I joined the Indian feminist movement. I
read the usual feminist literature, took part in the usual
demonstrations in support of womens’ rights, and attended the usual
womens’ rights conventions. However, it soon dawned on me that the
movement was quite hollow, and, despite several decades of
existance, had failed miserably in its objectives. At the time I
write this book, in June 1999, the status of women in India has sunk
to its lowest ebb. After 50 years of Independance, cases of female
infanticide, sati, dowry-related murders and crimes against women
are on the increase, and in many cases are at their highest levels
seen since the birth of the Indian Republic. I soon realised that
the reason is that Indian feminism has not tackled the core of the
evil, but has only squabbled about superficial aspects of the
problem. Western feminism was merely transplanted onto the
subcontinent, and like many plants, had been unable to thrive in its
new environment. It is only by tackling the root of the problem that
this plant can grow. I hope that this book shall enlighten all
Indian women as to the true reasons for the abject state of
subjugation we are in. ”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
@Periyaar Dassan
hey joker how is it related to hinduism?
If your translation is correct, then why Sanskrit professors AND Hindu scholars didn’t translate them just you did and why did they skip them?
Because they were brainless like Mr. Mahmad who instead of verifying with the correct translation, chose to merely copy-paste !
That is fundamentalism at its peak! From sanskrit professors to HINDU SCHOLARS EVERYONE skip those verses and they are wrong but one person called agniveer makes up a translation and he is correct? Please Amitesh do you really believe that?
Yes, logics and facts are “fundamentalism” for Islamists and killings pagans is “spiritualism” ! Good !
Dear Amitesh, as I said, falseness of islam doesn’t prove Hinduism is correct. If you claim Doniger’s translation is wrong and agniveer’s is correct we should prove that by explaining word for word.
@Uma
Initially I thought that you are a misguided hindu but this comment of yours proves that you are a jihadi in disguise !
Instead of fighting over Agniveer v/s Doniger, why don’t you give word to word translation of these mantras. That would be much better and clear the air ! What say ?
“Everyone has heard the Brahmin male propaganda that the customs of
sati, dowry, female infanticide and all other social suppression of
women in India is the result of `social degeneration’, `coruption’,
or still worse, `foreign Christian or Muslim influence’. This is all
one big lie designed to fool women. The reasons are far more deep-
rooted, and are fully the result of Brahmin male conspiracies. ”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Periyar dasan, first ask your people to respect the women. We all know the second marriage of periyar. Why the hell he married a girl who is 30 years younger than him? Do you have any answer for this? periyar and dravida parties are just an christian agents.
Namaste @Sri
You have hit the nail on the head.
and Karunanidhi followed the sunnah of prophet periyar ( a wife and a keep) – the pseudo aryan-dravidian movement chimp
Amitesh brother these Muslims themselves skip their islamic scriptures and accuse us of skipping Hindu Scriptures their own islamic scriptures tell that Kaaba black stone was used as URINAL BY QARMATIANS for 20 years poor allah was not able to stop his stone being used as Urinal.
Mahmad
Please read my above post.
“The real reason for the sad state of Indian women is the
continuation of the Vedic and Vaishnava religions, collectively
referred to as Brahminism or `astika’ Hinduism. These religions
clearly and unambiguously justify and prescribe the crushing of
women to the status of sub-humans. Rather than being due to some
kind of `corruption’, the ghastly practices of sati, female
infanticide, dowry and related acts are actually enforced by Vedic
and Hindu scriptures. Although this may sound like some Christian or
Muslim propaganda, it is not. I have backed up my research with
quotations from Vedic and Vaishnava scriptures, and have shown that
these religions, and nothing else, are the main culprits behind the
most anti-woman system the world has ever seen. Far from being
`enlightened’ and `progressive’, Brahmanism is in fact the very
fountain of the evils of sati, female infanticide, devadasism and
dowry. ”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Are the Hindu scholars who know Sanskrit themselves brainless becaouse they just skipped the verses?
How come Hindus themlselves don’t translate those verses? I don’t think that’s because they are brainless, there MUST BE something weird in those verses?
Amitesh just stop for a moment being utterly fundamentalist, how can you claim Sanskrit professros and HINDUS are brainless? Everyone from sanskrit professors to Hindus EVERYONE skip those verses and they are wrong but one person called agniveer makes up a translation and he is correct? Please Amitesh do you really believe that?
These characteristics are quite natural for those who believe in crying of stone and breaking of moon ! Instead of cross-checking the facts themselves they believe in “revelations”.
Mahmad don’t make a mockery of yourself. Agniveer has given word to word translation of each word, but still you are continuing with your idiotics.
I guess Einstein was right – “Two things are infinite – universe and stupidity. And I am not sure about the previous.” !
I am not a scholar but some religious books I have read …. clearly state that verses in Vedas were changed by British to make Hindus think bad about their religion. I believe Agniveerji has done the research to get the right verses instead of translating the fake verses written by British.
Mahmud Bhai,
Thanks for bringing these mantras. With my limited Sanskrit knowledge, I can see that there is nothing like that what you found in the Doniger’s translation. Who told you that no Hindu has translated these verses? I know that at least Dayananda jee has translated these verses. Moreover, Many pandits studied these books and didn’t feel the need to translate them becoz Sanskrit was very common until the first half of the 20th century. Now, people feel the urge of its translation in other languages.
If you still feel doubtful, learn Sanskrit as many other Muslims who have good command on Sanskrit and see yourself without depending on others. But, in that case, don’t twist the meanings as Doniger has done it. Even I can say, she has simply lied.
Thanks brother.
Mahmad
Can you name a few Vedic Scholars from the set of “EVERYONE” who have skipped the Mantras?
Thanks
“The result of my research is far-reaching. Instead of wasting time
attacking trivialities, the Hindu religion itself must be attacked
by Indian feminism. If Indian women are to become free, it is this
faith that must tackled, and nothing else. No other religion, not
even Islam or Christianity, burns its women, or slaughters one-tenth
of all women each generation except Hinduism. Indeed, Brahminism is
nothing but the legitimised genocide of women. In this book I have
performed calculations showing how Brahminist men, and not
Communists or Nazis, have been responsible for the greatest genocide
(namely that of women) in the history of the world. The worst
holocaust in human history was not that of the Jews or Africans, but
was that inflicted on women by Brahmins. A significant part of this
holocaust occurred in India during thousands of years of Brahmanic
tyranny. Even in the modern era, Brahmin-enforced laws lead to the
deaths of more people each decade than Hitler killed during the
entire Second World War. To stop this ongoing holocaust, Indian
women must unite with all those who oppose Hinduism, for an enemy’s
enemy is a friend. Indian feminism must unite with Islamism,
Communism, Sudra Nationalism and Christianity in order to fight a
form of savagery known as Hinduism. By necessity this strategy shall
have to vary according to region. In South and Central India, Sudra
Nationalism promises to uplift Dravidian, Dalit and Adivasi women on
a healthy platform of anti-Brahmanism. This pan-Negroist philosophy
is thus a natural ally of Indian feminism. In North India, the
allied Islamist ideologies of pan-Islamism and Mughalstanism have
proven a potent forces for womens’ liberation, witness the Mughal
emperors’ restrictions on Sati and female infanticide. Indian
feminism should hence ally itself with these movements. Communism
has helped women in West Bengal and Kerala, and is another natural
ally for Indian feminism. Hence, by means of judicious realpolitik,
the status of Indian women can be bettered. ”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Maatheswari Seetha,
Hindu Women:
Savithri, Yashoda, Seetha, Damayanthi, many more to name from the scriptures..
Let me go to late history: Jhansi Rani, Rani Rudrama, Rani Chennamma, Ahalya bhai Holkar, Meera, Vengamambha…(Shivaji’s Mother, Vivekananda’s Mother, Gandi’s Mother, Nethaji’s Mother) I can mane nearly 10 more…
And my history knowledge is too weak…
Please can you name any women from Islam or Christinaty; like the above. Who are brave at knowledge as well as in battle field cutting the heads of ‘Dasyas/Demons/Rapists/Extortionists’…
I agree that late Demon Brahminism is the worst of all, but I can’t blame Vedas or Upanishads because of Selfish Bastard Late Brahmins who binded Caste with Birth. And couldn’t save country under attacks as their false position (the plight of hindus must be asked with Hindu-Kush mountains), but changed manu-smriti to protect women inturn lead to oppresion of women & honest people.
Lets not hate the true knowledge (Vedas & Vedanta), because only it can show us a way of light through midest of darkest disgrases upon my Bharath Matha like: Demon Brahminism, Islam Ivasion, Christian Invasion and lately economic Invasion….
Vivekananda Inspired.
Hello,
As a Hindu, I have to admit I’m quite shocked to read the incest verses like those in even Sruti.
If those verses were found in Puranas, I would not be shocked but since they are in Sruti, I don’t know why they are in there and what we can learn from them, I really don’t know.
I think I’ll start questioning my faith seriously.
But we should understand that falseness of Hinduism doesn’t make islam correct, they could be both wrong/false religions. I have read whole Quran 2-3 times, I’m not impressed at all. The verses in Quran are too dry, repetitive and devoid of any philosophic or mystic thought, I just couldn’t believe those verses are from God.
“I don’t know why they are in there and what we can learn from them, I really don’t know.”
Stop crying like baby, as already said the above mentioned mantras were miscomprehended or twisted by propgandist to taint Vedas. Agniveerji just gave clarification for that.
Why don’t you learn sanskrit and understand it if you can’t trust anyone?
And as far as question goes about why hindu scholars didn’t translated it correctly, well they did, but propagandist with resources were more interested in spreading wrong translation as right one never served their purpose and docile people like you accepted them without verifying it properly. Now Arya are back.
@ Uma Kumar
With my limited Sanskrit knowledge, I understand that there is nothing like incest at all in the above three mantras. Any person with some knowledge of high school Sanskrit can know it. Yuvati near means daughter. Had there been kanya, the translator with ulterior motives could have made it a debatable one. However, yuvati word makes it clear and leaves no doubt. The biggest problem for the Hindus is their helplessness when it comes to Sanskrit and it has been taken advantage to the Missionaries with their half cooked Sanskrit/Vedic language to their hilt. On the posts over here, I see people correcting grammatical mistakes of others proudly but alas they start wailing when it comes to Sanskrit!
There is no problem without its solution. There is way out to this also. Start taking Sanskrit lessons and I tell you, you will be a transformed person in a year or so. It will make the Hindus Sanatani/Vedic. This is the only difference between a Hindu and Sanatani. As long as you are dependent on others for the sources of scriptures, you will always remain thirsty of the nectar.
Moreover, learning Sanskrit is not that difficult. Just go ahead.
BTW, there are Sanskrit lessons posted on this site, thanks to all the dedication of Agniveer team for the revival of the Vedas.
Ohm Tat Sat.
Correction in the above post: I meant ‘Yuvati’ never means ‘daughter’. By mistake, I have misspelled ‘Never’ as ‘Near’. I apologize for the mistake.
Thanks again Agniveer , but my opinion you should put forth first what Vedas say not translation of Christian, communist, Muslim etc. It is just too shocking. One thing Hindus are not a complete uniformed society anymore, their education is not Hindu but christian pseudo-secular Babus. Keeping the translation of Dayanand Swarswati as an authority, reading those translation are shockingly unauthorized. Especially, if one read Swami Dayanand Swarswati, is an Hindu.
It makes me think what Hindus think of this age of Kali yoga and how it is true that we are in Chaos and history is being forgotten. Where Hindu say History of human starting with Manu Rishi started around 3.8 million year agreeing with the scientific point of view that Humans being around 3.8 million years. Where is that history? Modernist live in denial of genocide of natives that has taken place. They deny the environmental destruction, they wish to live in ivory tower aloof reality, drunk unwilling to think further, etc. But we even tell of history that took place even before this that is of evolution the creation of the fish, then the turtle, land animal the boar, then the creation of man.. . As one of its properties of chaos is history is forgotten, we today see these problem what is truth, what is order?
Again it is said those who translate the Vedas, or to know the Vedas one must posses the good qualities, then one knows the Vedas.As it is against the tenets of Vedic dharma how can it teach lust, even Lord Ram and Sita Mata in the jungle for fourteen year never enjoyed lust for Laxman was without his wife. Yet people don’t understand what was that love that Sita Mata could resist all temptation and have faith in him and so too Lord Ram, nor they can contemplate how separate they lived together, but one must understand those times. As most would be mad at Lord Ram for not touching his wife and find it grounds for divorce, but one who cannot control their senses what would be the life of Sita Mata so one understands the value as he could give that freedom and value for more then her good looks and that respect only Lord Ram could give as he control of senses having all the good qualities of Sita Mata, etc.The two most ideal people in Hindu religion.
If we go through history the time of translation the people very fanatic and Christian who translated the veda. Having great prejudice, nor were they trained by our Hindu system as to what the translations should be but deduce with thier limited intelligence and project things that could not exist.. .
It shameless that Hindus don’t issue a fatwa against such people who say such dirty things without any authority like Muslims and such books are not baaned like Satanic Verses. Like Motilal Banarsidass (MLBD) who publish mainly Western translations/ Communist of Veda goes against the Vedas so they like propagate such things.. Jains are generally anti-Vedic, like communist, Christian, Muslims..Let me translate the Bible for the Christian see if I can find something good in it. Lets start with their desire to subdue the earth , or let us end with their thoughts of Judgment day the day god comes and kills everyone of them and leave with a thought of Hindus that only good people survive the destruction just leaves us a simple understanding of what they are. The same is believed by Muslims too that one day they would not exist, as what is born must die its natural death.. But according to Hindus it exist whether we believe or not, these things exist and so Hindus, and their belief will exist because they are as eternal as nature.
One question for guru Agniveer was Sita Mata older the Lord Ram?
Namaste
Thanks for your views. Swami Dayanand’s translations point in right direction but are ignored because that will expose all fraudulent cartels that thrive on bashing Hinduism.
BTW, from where did you get reference of Sita being older than Ram? I do not know the source of this myth but I have read a book by Swami Amar Swami that puts age of Ram during marriage at around 25 years and Sita a few years younger. You can get the book from Amar Swami Prakashan, Ghaziabad.
Dhanyavad
Why I had the question besides seeing it posted somewhere else because Lord Ram was considered an youth who had just completed education who was not invited but for Vishamitra standing, and Sita Mata seems to be looking for an husband for a long time. It was not unknown at those times for such things to occur. Like AshokaSundari and Nahusha, Ravita and Balram, It was also practiced by women those times brahmacharia and so it was question and likely Sita Mata also practiced as in Vedas.. I am not supposing fact. I think it is question. Today Indian finds it offensive but in those Vedic times was common with no offense as they would have thought the question unimportant more important the quality of the individuals as from what I read Vedas even gives importance to this both parents being Brahacharya.. Is it in the Ramayan or does he suppose as I am not familiar with Swami you speak as per current Indian thoughts and prejudice? I don’t know for fact, but to say she was years younger means she did not complete Brahmacharya.But my knowledge of this subject is limited so the question..
“As rivers, full of water, are benevolent, in the same way, the children born to parents who have observed Brahmacharya and who have become scholars by acquiring the knowledge of sciences, can do good to all , and none else.” Mandalam III Suktam 33.4 rig veda. Do you agree to this verse and if it would suggest that good children can be produced by Brahmacharya?
Much before opening pandora’s box of frauds in various religious books, we need to prepare the brains which are capable to understand things. We need healthy mind and body to support this understanding. May be this is because Brahmcharya is so important for us and may this is because we can’t make our point clear to those who are miles away from holisitc health.
I request Agniveerji to also assist in preparing material (people with healthy mind and body) before casting them into something or else we will create another badwagon of blind followers and this is why I feel Swami Ramdev is insisting on pranayam rather on religion analysis, as a man capable of healthy thinking will axiomatically move toward vedas.
“Since I have written this work for humanitarian purpose, I hereby
make it free of any copyright. You may freely distribute this book,
in part or in whole, via any means you desire, whether by internet,
www, email, newsgroup, usenet, or any electronic means. You can also
print out this book and translate it, and distribute it in pamphlet
form.
Please help Indian women. By distributing chapters of this book via
the internet or as pamphlets, you shall be saving innocent lives.
Each person can do his little towards this noble cause. By taking a
little time to post this to a newsgroup, by hosting this book at
your internet site or by adding a link to this book from your page,
you shall be doing service towards a valiant movement. This doesn’t
cost any money; it just takes a little effort. Pleaes help, and
prevent further young and beautiful Indian women such as my sister
from premature death at the hands of Brahmin tyrants. Help end the
genocide of women in India.”
Thank You,
Sita Agarwal
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
there are plenty of reasons for the ignorance about vedic litrature. foremost is the colonization by muslims and then british. Muslims did what they could to destroy culture by whole sale massacrs and killings. the prominnet people including the educated elite , teachers were their prime targets. they knew if source is destroyed therest will finish by itself. However muslims were tad crude in theeir approach Example of the is present day Iran. britishers with there evanglistic zeal realized very early, by destroying the local culture and knowladge and colonizaing locals mentaly is much better weapon to rule than sheer brute force. Macculay in the name of educating the forced the western values down indian,s throat. Personal greed, sheer cowardice, ignorance are other reasons to name a few. India is still a hostage to macculites and their kind
An Appeal to all the Hindus and Muslims,
Pl learn Sanskrit to know the truth and the content in the Vedas. t will enlighten you and you can shrug off the ignorance and then the mischievous acts of the Missionaries will be out. No other way. Thanks to the dedication of Agniveer, there is a very good post on this site to learn Sanskrit. Just in six months’ time, we can be a very different person.
Om tat sat.
“Chapter1-Vedic Obliteration of Girls
The aim of this chapter is to expose the true reasons behind the ghastly act of female infanticide in
India. This custom was entirely the result of oppressive Brahmanic Hindu tyranny, being enforced upon
the non-Brahmins; the objective being the eventual extermination of non-Brahmin races from the face
of the Earth.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Matheswari Seetha,
Once you better read what Vivekananda said about this (Women Values). Mera Sri Krishna will say that “Oh! Mother, keeping the three worlds in your hand, being greater than whole earth itself and being first teacher of future; if you speak this dispaired and distress then who will lead this Bharath”.
Yes hindus did Sathi, find the history & reason behind it… (Because Demons became brahmins & impotents became kshatriyas) they couldn’t protect country under attack…
FYI: In chittod garh, 75,400 women willingly jumped into big pyre, instead of getting raped by muslims..
Muslims did/doing find reasons…
Christians did it in the name of witch hunting any free thinking women (who express some wish or her belief) are burt in masses…
May the holy spirit give you some relief to you, and give strength to see and accept the truth…
Vivekananda Inspired
Let us take a practical example through the chivalrous act of Maharana Pratap himself:
You all must have heard about the great poet “Rahim”, one of the nav-ratanas of Akbar. He was sent to battle the soldiers of Maharana. In one instance the womenfolk of Rahim fell into the hands of Pratap’s son, Amar Singh. At this point Rahim was camping at another place making preparations for an assault against Pratap. Notwithstanding all this, Pratap ordered his son Amar Singh to arrange for the safe conveyance of the Mughal ladies to their camp. Rahim was so touched by this incident that he refused to campaign against such a chivalrous monarch. He petitioned Akbar to be relieved of his post. THIS IS HOW WOMEN ARE RESPECTED IN HINDUISM.
Could any Muslim Monarch have ever thought of such an act??? The practice “Jauhar” -a variant of sati- (wherein Hindu womenfolk saved their honor by SELF-IMMOLATION) is credited to the mass rapes and dishonor by Muslim invaders and rulers!!! A match-stick burn causes much pain to us and these unfortunate ladies had to bear the pain of 100% burns just to save their honor from the beasts!
Our Bharath was having the culture of worshiping women as Bhaghavati/ Devi….Then how can others say that hindusim does not respect women. Better they themselves correct first.
Vande Mataram , this article is eye opener for veda haters. , and haters of Hinduism.
can we use this and other information in our different posts on facebook , google sms channels service , and others ??
also i want to suggest that please give original sanskrit verse (in devanagari script) with your explanation. Dhanyavad ,
Jai Hind..
@harshavardhan
yes, you may use this article, just copy paste, please help us make the mission of Agniveer succeed and kindly circulate these articles as we all have to work hard to spread the truth.
Dhanyavvad , i was asking it to agniveer , because the matter of copy right. i dont know if you have any connections with owner of this site . so agniveer please tell me can i use this ?
Namaste Harshvardhanji
Thanks for your kind words. Kindly feel free to use it the way it can best serve the cause of Dharma. We would request you to attribute it to Agniveer because that will help us synergise all good efforts in focused manner.
Ideally we would like to give detailed explanations word by word, but that becomes a very time-enduring and complicated exercise due to operational issues.. However if you review the word by word translations by Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Pt Vishwanath, Pt Jaydeva (you can get their translations from http://www.vedicbooks.com) they would largely be in same line. Whenever we make a significant divergence from these, we provide details of the same with reasons. However the spirit of interpretation still remains the same.
We ideally want to have a panel of scholars retranslating the Vedas – word by word – in English as per roots of word and for contemporary context. We need significant resources to make that happen. We shall nonetheless accomplish it very soon.
Dhanyavad
Admin
vande mataram,
I was not asking about word by word translation , but if possible just give the sanskrit verse (in devanagari script) . I was asking this because all readers are not having copies of veda to check verses thereself if they want . See i believe you but not everyone believes you , so if they read verses threself it would be easier for all to believe you. ( They can check there self for word by word meaning using dictionaries.). See if it is possible.
And thank you for doing such a great work , also thank alot for giving permission to use this.
Please call me Harshavrdhan only , See I am only of 18 years and preapering for diffrent exams.
Dhanyavaad ,
Jai Hind.
Namaste
You can download original text of Mantras from the Veda Samhitas made available in Downloads section. Typing the mantras in article text becomes a cumbersome exercise. Further the references can be matched from any Veda Samhita from many available across the internet.
Dhanayavd
Admin
Vande Mataram ,
Dhanyavaad Agniveerji .
Jai Hind.
Dear Agniveer, what do you think about ultra-racist verses like those in rig veda? (about Dasyus)
3.34.9. ………………… treasure of gold he won; he smote the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour.
2.20.8 To him in might the Gods have ever yielded, to Indra in the tumult of the battle.
When in his arms they laid the bolt, he slaughtered the Dasyus and cast down their forts of iron
4.28.4 Lower than all besides hast thou, O Indra, cast down the Dasyus, abject tribes of Dāsas.
Ye drave away, ye put to death the foemen, and took great vengeance with your murdering weapons.
6.16.15 The hero Pathya kindled thee the Dasyus’. most destructive foe,
Winner of spoil in every fight.
Evidence that Dasyus are not “demon” or something, they are human:
Sama Veda 2.5.8 Ye slay our Arya foes, O Lords of heroes, slay our Dasa foes: Ye drive all enemies away.
Mahmad
Giving the translation of Vedas by a Christian missionary Griffith wont serve the purpose. Read the correct translation at http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org
“1.1 VEDIC FEMALE INFANTICIDE
The horrible custom of female infanticide was widely practiced by the barbaric Vedic Aryan tribes who
invaded India. It is these Vedic nomads who introduced this depravity into India. The Vedas prescribe
an intense hatred for women, and female children were considered highly undesirable in the nomadic
Aryan patriarchal view. Indeed, so deep-rooted was the desire for male children that the Vedas
prescribe numerous prayers for male offspring:
Atharva Veda.6.2.3 “Let a female child be born somewhere else; here, let a male child be born.”
[ Ath.Ved.VI.2.3 ] [ cf. Peri ]
These verses were recited whenever an Aryan couple wished to have a child, and display considerable
discrimination against women even in the Vedic age. Nor does the `wonderful’ treatment of women in
Vedic religion end here. The `holy’ and `great’ Vedas explicitly sanction the practice of female
infanticide. Indeed, the real reason for this truly animal practice lies deep in the blood-stained verses of
the Vedas. The following verse, from the `sacred’ Vedas of the `noble’ faith of Hinduism, allows the
practice, and takes it for granted as a normal practice in Vedic religion:
Taittirya Samhita VI.5.10.3 “Hence they [ Aryans ] reject a female child when born, and take up a
male.”
Sans. ” Tasmat striyam jatam parasyanti ut pumamsam haranti ” [ Taitt.Samh.VI.5.10.3 ] [ Muir I 26]”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
As you see, Rig veda says ” smote the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour.” “he slaughtered the Dasyus and cast down their forts of iron”,”cast down the Dasyus, put to death abject tribes of Dāsas for spoil”…etc What are those?
@Mahmad
Dasyus mean terrorists or any hardcore criminals that want to rape women or kill innocent human beings.
“What `sweet’ verses from the Vedas, the holy guide-book for all Hindus ! No wonder women were not
allowed to read these heaps of male chauvinist filth ! Indeed, there are several reasons for the practice
of female infanticide during the Vedic Dark Age (1500 BC – 500 BC) of the Brahmanic Dark Ages
(1500 BC – 1000 AD), all of which can be traced back to Vedic barbarism :
The large dowries prescribed by the Vedas (see later chapters) implied that female children were solely
seen as an economic burden. Such was the state of madness inflicted by the Brahmins that a single
female marriage, even today, can ruin an ordinary middle-class family. Obliterating female children
was thus a convenient way of alleviating financial ruin in the Vedic period.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
@Mahmod
please read the article called Vedas and Dasyu, over here
http://agniveer.com/839/vedas-and-dasyu/
“Women were of little use to the Aryan war-tribes. Hence, their numbers were reduced in order to
maintain the high effectiveness of the Aryan war-machine.
These are the `wonderful’ truths about the `most spiritual’ religion of Hinduism. The inhuman Hindu
female infanticide is not due to any `corruption’, but is fully sanctioned by the core of Hindu religious
scriptures – the Vedas. This is the truth about the `wonderful’ religion of Hinduism.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
Vik, it is explained what Dasyu means in ancient Vedic texts.
Manu Smriti says:
“10:45. All those tribes in this world, which are excluded from (the community of) those born from the mouth, the arms, the thighs, and the feet (of Brahman), are called Dasyus, whether they speak the language of the Mlekkhas (barbarians) or that of the Aryans.”
Well, whether you accept Manu Smriti or not, it is an ancient texts and Dasyu means not “criminals” but aryan race.
Mahmad whom are you trying to Fool. This Aryan race theory has been CREDIBLY proved to be “FALSE”. Please read the latest research in the field of history. And if you wish, I can give you illustrations to corroborate them. “Aryan” is the English corruption of word ‘Arya’ (Noble) which is a salutation, a word for expressing respect. “Aryan” word was used as term for original speakers of Indo-European language groups. Max muller is supposed to have first coined this word.
Now there are scores of archaeological evidences to prove the falsity of this sinister theory. The puzzle of River “Saraswati” that has been scientifically shown to have vanished more than 5000yrs ago due to geological upheaval that resulted in burying of this most revered river of the vedas. Satellite pictures and the consecutive drilling along its course (‘sweet’ water discovered in these wells in desert) has shown that this river still flows underground through the Thar desert. Even the Water-channels have been carbon-dated to be at least 4000yrs old. Also about 1000 archaeological sites dating back to 3000BC have been discovered along its “now-lost” course.
Now, if, according to British “Aryan” theory, Aryans came from Europe, invading India, some 1500 BC, then the vedas should not have any mention of an already LOST river!!! But vedas are full of its praise.
You should understand why Britishers “invented” this theory–Just to LEGITIMIZE their rule. (it’s like saying–‘Indian Aryans actually came from Europe, so our ruling upon you is that of a “superior” Aryan ruling upon an “inferior” Aryan’!!!).
I’m NOT talking about any theory, I just look at THE VERSES! Please read them above
“1.2 LATER BRAHMANIC FEMALE INFANTICIDE
The custom of Vedic female infanticide continued during the Sutric (500 BC – 200 AD) and Puranic
Dark Ages (200 AD – 1000 AD) of the Brahmanic Dark Ages (1500 BC – 1000 AD). During this era,
the Brahmins consolidated the power they had obtained during the Vedic Dark Age to the height of
Absolutism. Any custom which could eat away at the foundations of non-Brahmin peoples was utilised
by the Brahmins in order to consolidate their tyranny over the subject populations. Infanticide was one
such method which helped preserve Brahminist power, and the population was hence brainwashed with
the `holy’ Vedas, which prescribe this beastly practice. There were several other reasons why the
Brahmins cruelly enforced Vedic female infanticide :
The Brahmin race has always feared being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of non-Brahmins.
Hence they resorted to the harshest means imaginable to curtail non-Brahmin reproduction. To this
extent, the Brahmins divided Indian nations into mutually warring factions by means of casteism,
enforced the vile customs of sati, hijrahism, devadasism and above all, spread the poison of female
infanticide into the veins of the populace. Female infanticide rotted away at the very roots of the non-
Brahmin races, many of which disappeared from the face of the Earth. The Indo-Greeks, Bactrians,
Panchalas, Koshalas and Saurasenas are only some of the non-Brahmins races exterminated by the
Brahmins using various forms of social degenration which included female infanticide.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
The latest satellite discovery of under-ground flowing River “Saraswati” has in a way corroborated the Date of the War of Mahabharata as well. The river is scientifically proved to have gone underground some 3000 yrs BC. Please refer to the mention in Mahabharata wherein river saraswati is mentioned as a “dying river”— In instance is that of lord Balaram taking a pilgrimage from Dwarka to Mathura along the dying river. There was also mention of large fissures and faults in the dying river. THIS has now been confirmed by satellite imagery. It was through these faults that the mighty river went underground.
Hence now we have another evidence of the date of Mahabharata War (3210 BC) and the falsity of the crazy “Aryan” theory. I
I don’t really care about and “invasion” theory, I’m interested in the verses only, I look at the verses and see racism, even MAnu smriti says what Dasyu means.
I don’t know from which Edited version of book are you referring. First of all there may be many versions of a scripture written originally by saints. As the different scholars put different meanings and interpretations to a word and sometimes a word may be also get corrupted or is deliberately corrupted. BUT I agree with Vajra that Dasyu means a terrorist/wicked mind person as opposed to the ‘nobel’. Unfortunately 19th century European Scholars (deliberately or by mistake) interpreted the word ‘dasyu’ as synonymous with dark-skinned dravidians!! And therefore I referred to the Aryan theory and the False claim of a slaughter of the Dravidians by Aryans.
it is explained what Dasyu means in ancient Vedic texts.
Manu Smriti says:
“10:45. All those tribes in this world, which are excluded from (the community of) those born from the mouth, the arms, the thighs, and the feet (of Brahman), are called Dasyus, whether they speak the language of the Mlekkhas (barbarians) or that of the Aryans.”
@Mahmad
brother, this is a Vedic Site, why are you reffering to Manu Smriti? We do not consider Manu Smriti as an authentic scripture, only Vedas are scriptures that are free from any interpolations or adulterations, and the real manu smriti is different from what you have quoted.
So kindly just bring verses of Vedas, not any other book, and make sure that the Vedic translations are authentically correct, preferably , the Arya Translations, not anyone else.
dear vik,forget these silly views.giving refrence to some texts is the a widely practised gimmick used to defame hinduism.since hinduism widely accepts all sorts of views, unlike islam which is brutaly controlled religion,these stupid interpretitions were never oppossed.it’s high time that we should raise our voices against these conspiracy.
anybody who has printing press publishes anything and starts a hulla ballo.
nobody knows how the original manusmriti was.even you can publish any litreature if you have a printing press and start interpreting your own way.
“The shortage of women led to unending wars amongst non-Brahmins for the remaining women. This is
amply demonstrated in Rajasthan, where the Brahmin-enforced female infanticide led to male-female
ratios of 10:1. As a result, a never-ending series of wars over women devastated the Scythic Rajputs for
several centuries. Sessodia fought Chauhan, Kacchwaha fought Bundela and father fought son in
fratricidal warfare which reduced Rajasthan to the desert it now is. Had the Rajputs instead tackled the
real cause for all their wars and suffering, namely the Brahmins and the Brahmin-inflicted customs of
female infanticide and sati, this suffering would not have occurred.
‘Thus, the `holy’ texts of the Vedas sanction apartheid and mass murder of baby girls. The magnitude of
this circumstance is staggering: as long as the Vedas are followed, there shall exist immense hardships
for women, and the mass murder of children shall continue since these are all prescribed in these
`sacred’ texts. Since such passages cannot be deleted in modern times, nor can the Vedas be modified,
it hence follows that that all Indian feminists must fight against any and all forms of Vedic religion.
Unless they do so, Indian women shall forever remain enslaved to Vedic tyranny”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
@Periyaar Daasan
Namaste brother,
I know very well who Sita Agarwal is. She wrote so many Anti Vedic articles to defame Vedas and hinduism. But like muslims and christian evangelists, she is a victim of wrong translations. At the same time, the reason she wrote these things is because her sister was a victim of these stupid evil birth based brahmins who enjoy demeaning women and defend the caste system. Now, just because a bunch of evil pandits conducted evil practices it does not mean that Vedas are wrong. You can read articles on this site in which Vedas praise women and reject the nonsense of a caste system. Brother, I have full sympathy with Sita Agarwal for her sister, and I believe before condemning fanatic muslims/christians we should give public thrashings to these pandits who demean women in the name of Vedas. Anyone regardless or race or origin who demeans and tortures women should be destroyed. These so called brahmins should be equally condemned as fanatics like Zakir Naik and Talibanis.
My Friend Mahmad, I ask you again–From which edited version are you quoting this verse. Who is the editor (or may be an author) of your version. Give a reference. There are many versions of Manu-smriti. Why I am insisting on it is because: Manu-smriti was the law-giver to hindus. It codified the Hindu laws to a large extent, hence it was oft-targeted and most susceptible to adulteration.
Please refer to a verse in Chapter 4 of Gita in which lord Krishna says that the original knowledge possessed by Manu (Who in turn derived it from Sun) got destroyed in the process of passing down from one generation to another. Hence the need arose for reiteration of this knowledge in Gita.
Namaste
The translation is broadly correct. And herein the definition of Dasyu is also clear.
The 10.45 shloka of Manusmriti clearly says that regardless of whether one speaks Aryan or Mlechha language, if one is outside the purview of being head (Brahmin), arms (Kshatriya), thighs (Vaishya) or feet (Shudra), he or she is a Dasyu.
Now it has been explained that these limbs of body parts represent noble traits of intelligence, valour, support and service. If one is not indulged in any of these activities, we have only terrorists remaining. Thus regardless of what language one speaks aka wherever one lives in the world, if one is neither promoting knowledge, nor defending, nor nurturing nor serving the society, he or she is Dasyu. In other words, criminals and terrorists are Dasyus.
Vedas elaborate on this concept of Dasyu even more by stating the misdeeds that they do – killing people, attack in night time, causing mass destruction etc. Such people should be destroyed.
Had Aryan or Dasyu meant any race, Manu would not have specified that “Mlecchavaashchaaryayavaachah”: regardless of whether one speaks language of Aryans or Mlecchas.
Thus when a king should punish a Dasyu, he should not see where he was born and what he speaks. Thus if Osama Bin Laden were to be born as a Hindu, even then he would have been a Dasyu and deserved being killed.
Please also note that the 4 Varnas and Dasyu are also within each of us. Hence we should also strive to be Aryans by destroying the Dasyu within. There is the concept of Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande in Vedas – thus all that is applicable outside us is also applicable within the world inside us.
So dear Mahmad, are you partners of Agniveer to destroy the Dasyu within and outside us through weapon of knowledge, truth, non-violence, discipline and morality?
Admin
agniveeeer brother excellant!! Steve and his team must be pulling their hair out of head.
Brothers, nobody wins in a debate..only truth wins,and it is the law of nature.welcome to vedic dharma.
can anybody provide the link for “Atharva Ved 2/3/23” swamidayanand bhashya in hindi. I tried to search for it on aryasamaj jamnagar website but could not find. I don’t know the meaning of 2/3/23.
agniveer ji, im very proud of you. i will pray to lord ganesha that in all his infinite wisdom he will send more people like you to spread the light of hinduism
“”In the Dasarathajataka Sita is represented as the sister as well as the wife of Rama , son of Dasaratha
of the Ikshvaku line.” [ Chandra, p.156 ]
Mr. Chandra, who has given the passage cited above, then claims that this incriminating passage was
`infiltrated’ by the Buddhist nastikas. This objection, however, can be discounted immediately. Firstly,
it would not be possible for Buddhists to `distort’ a Hindu scripture. Secondly, Chandra himself is a
Brahminist, so his statements in defence of Brahmanism can be discounted as being the result of
religious fanaticism. The fact is, that the extant Buddhist tales are much older than the Hindu versions,
and this episode was deleted from the later falsified Ramayanas. This is confirmed by anthropological
research showing that incest was institutionalized in Rama’s race, the Ikshvaku dynasty of Aryan
Kshatriyas :
” In the Anabattha Sutta and the Mahavastu Avadana we are told that the Ikshvaku princes, who were
banished by their father and took shelter on the slopes of the Himalayas, and from whom the Sakyas
traced their descent, married their own sisters in order to maintain the purity of their line.” — [ Chandra,
p.155 ]
Hence, it is virtually certain that Sita was Rama’s sister, and that it is certain that such an `upright astik
Hindu’ as he would not have let his sister grow beyond the age limit of 8 years prescribed by Aryan
law.
Now, what was the main reason for the Brahmins enforcing child marriage and incest upon the subject
populations ? The answer is that these activities led to the permanent genetic degradation of the non-
Brahmin races. It is well known that consanguineous marriage leads to genetic mutations in the
offspring and eventually ends in the extermination of the blood lineage concerned. Incest and child
marriage has a high risk of leading to irreversible hereditary defects in the second generation which are
then passed on to succeeding generations. These were hence convenient methods for the Brahmins to
annihilate the non-Brahmins and establish a pure Brahmavarta! Even to this day one finds the process
of genetic deterioration occurring in non-Brahmin children inhabiting Brahmin-ruled regions. These are
entirely the result of Brahmin-enforced child-marriage and Brahmin-inflicted incest.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg02523.html
@Periyaar
Hey hey, what CRAP are you writing. Utter disgusting Non-sense. Why the hell are you quoting Moron imbecile Authors who get a psychic pleasure in bashing Hindu Gods and TWISTING the facts to satiate their sinister urge.
Before quoting such trash stuff you should have first appreciated the fact that Indian gene pool is the largest and the MOST diversified in the world, some call it the laboratory of Genetics, others hail it as the Mine of Genetic-diversity. And you are claiming through a Cheap 3rd grade semi-porn literature that Lord Rama and Sita were Siblings & that their marriage was to maintain racial purity!!! What a Shame.
Someone rightly said — You don’t need Outside Enemies when you have traitors lurking within.
That is the reason why few thousand Muslim invaders and Few hundred British traders were able to rule over 30 cr (now over 150 cr-Undivided India) Indians!!!
P.S.– And We, 122 Crore, are Still ruled by Foreigners and Traitor Indians who are stashing our money and dumping it in Foreign banks.
I like to share an interesting (rather Sad) incident. I was traveling to Pune via train. Our train halted -unscheduled- at some place in UP-MP border, near Jhansi. It was lunch-time and after finishing my lunch I threw the waste out of my window. To my Surprise (and dismay) a group of children AND HUNGRY DOGS “JOINTLY” feasted upon it, every bit of waste was fought over!!! I thought of taking a picture but so shocked was I that for a few minutes I was like NUMB. This is the state of affairs in a state (UP) whose CM is busy spending crores on building memorials for her!!
India is a land of contrasts, on one hand we pray our gods and on the other hand we tolerate open insult of them. Have you guys noticed how the ADVERTISEMENT industry “MISUSES” the name of our Gods. Lord Yamraj is the most abused God. In shastras he is revered as a God of Dharma, BUT the way he is portrayed by Media is abysmal and an insult. Why is it that Media always portrays Hindu Gods in bad light while Gods and Prophets of other religions are IMMUNE to it?? Can any Media house insult a Sikh Guru, or a Prophet or Christ?? NO.
Another shocking Mis-use of Hindu Gods. The abuse of hindu gods is not limited to the Add agencies. Even Toilet brands use Hindu names!! I felt disgusted at the site of the lavatory branded in Hindu Saint’s name. What shame it is? I have nothing against any company BUT yaar AT LEAST DON’T use the name of our Gods and saints on such articles.
Just read through this link to find what’s happening in USA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suhag-a-shukla-esq/to-use-or-not-to-use-the-_b_789794.html
@pratap bro, ignore this dirty convert periyar dasan.he is just a convert who is speaking jibberish here.!!
So ignoring this idiot is the best thing to do as he will paste…paste….paste and get lost!!!
I think you are right. These fools like periyaar only seek attention and nothing else. They have nothing to offer but their FRUSTRATION.
@ Pratap: Do you know who is Mr. Periyar Dasan? Just google up to know about him. I’m sure he is far more educated than most of the writers / readers here. And he’s already very famous. He has no need to solicit cheap publicity here. Your tone suggests that you have learned from your religion to be disrespectful towards your elders. You are not able to bear a little disagreement towards your religion. But you’ll gleefully read & listen to all the nonsense that is being propagated against Islam here. A word of advice-Analyze well before framing opinions & you shall do well for yourselves.
True Indian
@ trueindian
Well, I did google it and guess what was the first LINK?? “Periyaar Dasan has Embraced Islam and he is now some Abdullah!!!!!!!!! Arab News site are screaming Glory, after all they got a new convert after such a long time!
And for your information, I also read that he is an ATHEIST.
That says it all. A WORD OF ADVISE TO YOU– Look into the conduct your RECRUITS. It is abysmal and 3 rd grade to be most polite. “Copy-Paste” of UNREAD trash -that is what your Guys intellect have to offer. WHERE IGNORANCE IS BLISS, IT IS FOLLY TO BE WISE. (Hopefully my controlled and “moderated” comments satiate your questions)
@Pratap I quoted from your First Grade Porn book only….If you are Patriotic Arya in the sense I am Normal Common sense Dravidan
“1.4 ENFORCEMENT OF VIRGINITY
As a further instance of the oppressive rules of Hinduism imposed upon women, young girls were
required to remain virgin till marriage. Failing this requirement, they would be discarded by the
husbands at will :
Manu.IX.72″Though (a man) may have accepted a damsel in due form, he may abandon (her if she be)
blemished, diseased, or deflowered, and (if she have been) given with fraud.”
Such girls were reduced to a pitiable state and were unable to find husbands thereafter. They were
mostly forced to live the life of early wretched widowhood. This shows that the systematic
discrimination meted out by Hinduism to women extends down to early childhood. Whilst Brahmin
men were free to indulge in debauchery with aboriginal Devadasis at an early age, girls had to remain
chaste virgins. This is the truth about `wonderful’ Hinduism.
These are merely a handful of facts showing that Hinduism is the single most anti-woman civilization
in the history of the world. The followers of Hinduism are mindless male supremacist pigs who know
nothing better than to burn their own women and rape their own daughters. This they do in the name of
the `Holy Vedas’, the invention of perverted Brahmin bigots. No other religion imposes such an
inhuman genocide of women as does the truly beastly Hinduism.”
Genocide of Women in Hinduism
by Sita Agarwal
@PeriyarDasan:
The next post from you will be the following:
India is predominantly Hindu. Bollywood is a part of India. Bollywood made movie Dabaang. The movie has an item number that objectifies women exhorting them to become Badnaam.
Therefore Hinduism is at fault.
Educated people in India do not follow Manusmriti to subjugage women and Dalits. You are barking up the wrong tree here at Agniveer because this site and majority of the posters here (in this very thread) abhor birth-based caste system and mistreatment of women. All your posts are red herrings. Let us see if you can play a constructive role in modern India by doing YOUR part in uniting Indians and exhorting them to not discriminate amongst fellow human beings. Please work towards outlawing belief systems that divide the world into Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb (believers and heathens) with the promise of eternal hellfire for infidels. Can you rise up to that challenge?
@Periyaar
Janab, your comment begins on a BIASED NOTE- Anarchic “Arya-Dravidian” FALSE division. Please refresh your intellect (if U wish to). Aryan Theory has been SUBSTANTIALLY Proved “WRONG”. This is not a statement of a Hindu, it is a FACT “TESTIFIED” BY SCIENCE. So update your dictionary and come out of the “darkness” propagated by our “former” Masters – The Britishers.
Janab, tell me a common sense question— Who is this Sita Aggarwal? What is her authority? Did she receive the sermons DIRECTLY FROM MANU or over-head the sage? There hundreds of commentaries on Manu all -differing- in their interpretation. The British had their own version. I can understand the NEED of britishers to denounce Hinduism, BUT I fail to understand the “AGENDA” of those who -despite having the Cognitive faculties- CHOOSE to target their OWN ROOTS. One explanation is a SENSE OF UTTER FRUSTRATION and a DEEP SEATED BIASNESS.
To be fair to you, Sir, nobody is contradicting that some members of Hindus in the past DID indulge in slurring their religion and manipulate it to serve their purposes. It was these who “changed” the meaning of “Caste” for their selfish motives. BUT very SORRY to see that you have “INTERPOLATED” the mis-deeds (if we may so call) of a few individuals on a WHOLE SET OF COMMUNITY!
Is it fair to insult the most PIOUS of all religions in such spiteful manner? Ask your conscious. What Sin has that common Hindu done to you who lives his “Aam” Zindagi, his only wish being that his scriptures and Gods are NO MORE insulted as has been done for over 1000yrs?? Meditate and ask yourself – Am I not doing GROSS injustice to that pious soul, who never harmed me?? I am sure you will get some answer.
I dont know if these converts (to Xity?) ever realize the cognitive dissonance of their position.They rightly bash the caste system (which most educated Hindus tend to disown as well – Agniveer and many of the posters here do) and cite that as the reason for their conversion.
Yet, their new belief system in many cases comprises of an angry and jealous fire-spewing God that chooses to reveal its secrets to the latest self-proclaimed Son of God or Prophet. If you didnt happen to believe *exclusively* in this Son/Prophet, this God would supposedly discriminate against you by condemning you to eternal hellfire.
So, they hate man-made discrimination (as do many of us) and still choose to believe in divine discrimination!!!
Why?
To be fair to the OP, Periyaar was a rationalist/atheist.
@ KalBhairav: You seem to be a victim of the western liberation ideology. If a child abuses / misbehaves with his father, the father has every right to admonish the child, lest he go astray. Indian cultural system conforms to this & allows the parent to beat a child if warranted. I hope you don’t call this discrimination But in ‘The West’ I understand, the rights of a parent towards his children are curtailed & limited unlike in India. Now relate this to Islamic teaching where The Creator warns us of admonishing if we don’t obey Him. Because Our Creator is one & if we choose to ignore Him, He warns of punishment. I wonder how you call this ‘divine discrimination’. Hope you are getting my point.
True Indian
@False Indian: (A True Indian, per me, is one who actively works towards keeping “church/mosque/temple” separate from state. You are a Muslim apologist and will work for Shariah)
Take a walk. Dont try to justify Allah’s hellfire for infidels by forming an equivalence between Allah and a parent trying to correct his/her errant child. The latter is provable. I can see and get a feel for a parent/child. I have been a child and will be a parent one day.
Allah, on the other hand, exists only in YOUR mind. It does not even exist in mine. So…try and come up with a better analogy to justify Allah’s hellfire for non-believers for whom he purportedly provides free will anyway.
Namaste Brother KalBhairav
Good one. And Allah even fails to be like parents since parents always give us chance for improvement after their punishment and their only motive behind giving punishment is the betterment of their children. But in case of Allah, we dont get any second chance but eternal hell on judgement day! So how is the improvement possible when I am not given next chance?
Sad part is that Allah has created His children (humans) so that He can fill His hell 🙁
Quran [32:13]- If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, “I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together.”
@Vajra Brother:
Namaste.
Yes. The mental gymnastics that Muslims perform to try and justify the anger and jealousy of Allah is funny to observe.
I wonder how they will rationalize the supply of virgins for ghazis? Shouldnt 72 Muslim fathers of daughters also try and keep them virgin and unmarried for every Muslim father of a ghazi…coz otherwise, from where will the supply of 72 virgins come from for each ghazi?
Brother KalBhairav
Exactly and probably that is the reason why every Muslim friend wants to be a Ghazi so that they are on the demand side always instead of supply 🙂
@KalBhairav
Namaste brother,
these are all stupid bargain offers to mislead non muslims into islam.
Back in the old days, islamic rulers forced and threatened to kill hindus to convert. Then later on, they plunged hindus into Jizya tax, which forced many hindus out of helplessnes to embrace islam so they can escape suffering and poverty.
Today, muslims know they can no longer use the sword to convert people, so they come up with a new tactic of taking their holy scriptures and twisting its verses to emulate the prophecy of mohammad. Zakir Naik is an obvious example apply this tactic.
Then muslims go on further saying no matter how many crimes/sins you have committed including murders and rapes, as soon as you recite the Shahada and Kalima, all your sins will be erased and forgiven (wow…smart way to make bad people feel good), not only that, they even say in paradise one will get tons of wine and virgins, now you tell me which criminal or sinner will reject this offer.
It is obvious brother, muslims are desperate for converting people, because it also favours them in a big way. Then they quote verses like “there is no compulsion in religion” on one side and then kill apostates under sharia law on the other side. Look at this amazing contradiction!!!
@ KalBhairav: Your reply is amusing. On one hand, you call yourselves as a non believer. But, on the other, you are fearful of Allah Almighty’s hell fire which is supposedly non-existent for you. You are not clear in your thoughts. If you are disturbed by anything even in a minute level, that means you have belief in that.
As for the free will given to mankind, it is to show him what path he (man) treads on.
If he is on the path of truth, then he attains eternal bliss. If he treads the path of falsehood, then he reaps eternal torment. It is akin to a manager being given free will to run his business. If he decides wisely & acts well, then he reaps profits. Or else he faces losses. As simple as that. As to identifying the truth, it is easy for man if he is capable of thinking & reasoning beyond his influences & prejudices.
Have a nice evening.
True Indian
@False Indian:
If you are disturbed by anything even in a minute level, that means you have belief in that.
This does not even make sense. Let me see whether I can understand your logic. I take it that you are NOT disturbed by the Christian God/claims of exclusivity of Jesus. I also take it that you are NOT disturbed by the growing number of apostates in Islam. Because if you are “disturbed by it even in a minute level”, that means you have belief in the Christian God/claims of exclusivity of Jesus (?).
Again your analogy fails. Nothing from the natural world (manager of business, parent trying to correct a child, etc.) can be equal to Allah. Allah cannot be proven. I can meet and see and shake hands with the manager of a business and a parent in my finite earthly life. I cannot shake hands with Allah in my finite earthly life now, can I?
Please educate yourself a little bit before trying to come up with analogies. I suggest secular math/science education. Get yourself out of that Madarassa you have been living in all your life.
@ KalBhairav: Hope you are having a wonderful day. “I cannot shake hands with Allah in my finite earthly life now, can I?” But you can see god in cow. So you worship cow. You can see god in fire. So you worship fire. Ha ha ha.., I can only laugh at your logic. Your writing reflects the mindset of an elementary school student. It is not enough if you think you are wise. Your words and actions should reflect that. Look around and grow up mate.
True Indian
@TrueIndian
Have you heard about the following English idioms/proverbs?–
1. “Harping on the same String”
2. “It’s the Empty Can that makes the most Noise”
3. “It is better to conceal one’s knowledge than to reveal one’s ignorance”
4. ” Creator of their own problems as well as their victims”
5. “A matter of taste” says the monkey and bites the soap.
6. “A great lie may be widely accepted before truth comes to light”
7. “You can fool some of the persons all the time, and all the persons some of the times, but NOT all the people all the time”
8. ” New wine in old bottles”
9. “It is better to understand LESS than to misunderstand a LOT”
10. “Old habits die hard”
11. “The ends justify the means”
12. “To deny all is to confess all”
The way some of the Muslim Brotherns are debating on this site and trying TO “Impose” their agenda upon others, while spewing venom on others; these above phrases/proverbs seem to FIT in very nicely to them.
What is the path of truth to believe in non existent hell is called path of truth?How is hell different from present day arabia? What is heaven? Does supply of infinite number of luxuries give you satisfaction? In that case can you tell all rich persons on earth are happy? I think you havent even thought about the state of what happiness is except parroting the words of religious teachers. Except telling us about identifying “truth”, could you please let us know what is truth. If a person in heaven revolts and insults god will he be sent to hell and vice versa for the beings in hell? If that is the case why cant god send some beings to earth again? If not can you please give me permission to repent now and store my hatred for god after going to hell?
@Vik:
these are all stupid bargain offers to mislead non muslims into islam.
True. 100%. It is actually quite clear that Muslim and (few) Christian apologists here on Agniveer and elsewhere really have no case to make for their religion. It is becoming quite easy to simply shut down a Muslim/Christian who comes here with my-way-or-the-highway-to-eternal-hellfire-type arguments. I mean, really…that is the best that they can do? They need to now resort to cheap tricks and promises (virgins in heaven) and attempts at intellectual terrorism? I frankly am beginning to find debates with Muslims/Christians to be pretty boring 🙁
Hopefully one Muslim/Christian can make a good and interesting case for their religion instead of OTHER philosophies?
Namaste Agniveer ji,
You and your team are doing very good job..keep it up.
sir
Many muslims are born in india,they are indian citizen but they still wish to be born in countries like arab,pakistan..etc.
They get their education in india..also get job oppurtunities in india and abroad.. but still think and wish to be born in muslims countries.
What is in their mind?
Namaste Bhairavi Ji
It is because all non Muslims are worst of creatures as per Quran [98:6]. Now you tell me how can Muslims live with creatures which are even worse than pigs, dogs, worms, snakes etc? That is why our Muslim friends wish to take birth in Arabia where best of creatures (Muslims) are found rather than India where worst of creatures (Hindus) are found.
Utter nonsense……….
Best creatures of the world were nothing but pirates before and now they are terrorist…..
Muslims must be put in their own countries and must not be given visas ever……
and they will rot to death there in the name of Allah…
@False Indian
Going by your comments (cow worship, fire worship, Allah = angry parent even though Allah is formless, etc.) it appears you are choosing to instantiate (by means of an analogy) and provide form to Allah because Hindus are able to see God in cow and fire so they should also be able to understand an analogy where Allah is made equal to an angry parent. Is that right?
Decide and let me know.
@Pratap :
“Have you heard ..seem to FIT in very nicely to them”
Hmm. Can see that you have given vent to your frustration. Do you know when does a man get frustrated? When he is deprived of reasoning & lacs truth. Enlightment comes only to an open mind. As for your fabulous quotes, well, I leave it to the readers to decide whom it suits best. I have nothing more to say.
Hope you enjoy your evening.
True Indian
@True Indian
hmm. Well Buddy I am NOT frustrated. Had that been the case, I would have used FILTHY language with worst kind of venom. But that is NOT the case with me because I -thoroughly- believe in the saying– SOFT WORDS BUT HARD ARGUMENTS.
If you think from RATIONAL point of view you will see that the Phrases I used “ditto” fit in to the Language used by the muslim fanatics on this site. (You don’t have to TAX your brain HARD to appreciate what I am saying, just look the comments posted by these imbeciles)
I would suggest this proverb to all (esp. Some Muslim brotherns)– “TACT is the knack of making a point without making an enemy”.
To those who are already deep into abuse–“STOP DIGGING IF YOU ARE IN A HOLE”
To those who are “incorrigible” Copy-Paste experts– “A half-truth is a WHOLE LIE” & “Men can acquire knowledge, but not wisdom. Some of the greatest fools ever known were learned men.”
To those who CANNOT tolerate the decent limits of debate– “A little pot is easily hot”
“Open mind.” Now, again, this is perhaps the “cognitive dissonance” that KB refers to time and again, and why not, when you guys make such paradoxical statements every now and then. So, one with an “open mind” would without question believe in the divinity of a lunatic who committed rape (and ordered them too), adultery (by declaring polygamy as valid, marriages of up to 4 times for others and 11 times for himself), indulged in pedophilia, killed whosoever defied him, and still being the messenger of allah. I also leave it to the better judgment of the discerning reader to decide what allah would be like, if his messenger was such?
Thanks a lot Agniveer ji…
This is the article i was looking for a long time back……..
Dhanyawad ji
Hari OM!!
Good Stuff Agniveer.
These Hindu haters must be told the truth, and thanks for your information in helping me deal with a few of these hindu haters on this site:
http://users.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g18-18827-d4
In sloka (X.20)
“I am the Self seated in the heart of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the very end of all beings”. All beings have, therefore to be treated alike
Simples, now Mahmad reconicle your interpretations to the above, and anyone else how about this:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/88527-vedas-hindu-scriptures-prohibit-casteism.html
“Thus, the central command of the 14 harmony richas and 10 profession not hereditary richas of Vedas is that all Hindus are totally equal by birth, of one bunch, share same water and food, worship together united in same temple, common are prayers, common purpose, common thoughts, united like spokes of a wheel, common oblation and friendly towards each others.
>
”
How about Karma yoga prime directive of selfless service, cmon reconcile if you can!!
agniveer g aap niyog ko kaise galat man sakte hain jab k is ki Vedon mein verses b hain aur dusri bat satyarth prakash mein likha b hua hai
No verse of Vedas describe Niyog or even mention the word Niyog. However certain verses of Vedas were interpreted to imply Niyog given the prevailing social situations of late 19th century and that too as a theoretical concept.
Satyarth Prakash contains both Shruti and Smriti aspects. Shruti aspects deal with fundamental laws of nature and are described in Chapter 7-9 mainly. Smriti part deals with application of Vedic wisdom to prevailing situations. These have to be viewed with regards to current realities and cannot be adopted blindly in all times. Note that wherever Satyarth Prakash argues on Niyog, it is against those mindsets who demean women in some way or other. None of the mantras presented talk of Niyog. They only state that a woman should seek to start life afresh if current husband is dead.
I would not comment on situations in past, but in today’s context, no verse of Vedas can be used to legitimatize Niyog. And that is exactly why neither Swami Dayanand nor Arya Samaj ever practice Niyog or suggest anyone to practice so.
An essential trait of Dharma/ Satya provided by Vedas as well as in Satyarth Prakash is that it should appeal to inner conscience and one should be able to follow/ practice it with pride. (Aatma ke Anukool). Further we should be able to justify the same for self and others. On this count, one should judge each and everything and only then accept the truth.
Dhanyavad
i see so niyogi is not mentioned in vedas but there are verses which may imply niyogi?
Dear all,
i dont have words , to describe the pious work done by Agniveer clan, as of now, no body can say for certain that what actually meant , was written or intented before 3000 years old, but but one thing for sure,
Vedas are tremendous texts, fully divine, and whosoever compiled them, if not god fully, then also not less then that, in my views. it is pity and today’s hindu and our government are blind towards these wonderful texts, you follow them or not, but these are wonderful.
I would like to advice Shri Agniveer Ji and his disciples to go through all twelve volumes of ” SARITA MUKTA” reprinted collected articles on Hinduism, Budhha and his Dhamma and many books written by great persons.
Shri Agniveer Ji please do dare to speak truth and accept the mistakes. In facts, if we go through the evidences of history it appears that the Aryans and followers of Vedas are ractual offenders and convicter of this Bhumi. They are just like Muslims who was come here for rule or destroy us but they remain here and grab this Bhumi claverly. In fact Hinduism ( followers of vedas) believe in 1. Non equality 2. Baseless “havens” in which they burns the valuable products and living beings 3. Glorify and respect to useless, good for noting, cabbage persons (i.e. Bhrahmins) and hatered to national builders I.e. averna, shatriya and vaishya., 4. Lie and baseless rituals , tantra, mantra 5. untruth —
Namaste Agniveer Ji/ Vajra/Other scholar
I have a query, how widow women used to get son in ancient time. For example How Kunti got three son after death of her husband and other like Amba, Ambika etc. This query really troubling me. Is these story true or only misconception Kunti Got the son after death of her husband? If yes what was this called? Please put light on this.
@Truth Seeker : You are quoting some thing from Mahabharat. So you must know what is Mahabharat. It is the story how and why the Great Kingdom found by Sakuntala Putra Bharat failed. Veda byasa found the main reasons being insulting to women and hatred with the Sudras. And he tried to prove from Vedas that such are not good and with such practices no kingdom can run.
And so far as sons of Kinti’s are concerned, it is clearly said in Mahabharat that, Kunti got sons from a mantra earned from a yagna. The power of the mantra was that an woman can get son from the God she so desires. First she got Karna from Sun when she was not married. And others after marriage. Here too she got the sons WHEN HER HUSBAND WAS ALIVE, NOT AFTER HIS DEATH. Pandu was impotent. So he left kingdom. His wives too followed him, not because of Vedic culture, but because of love. She said Pandu about the mantra. And pandu said, even though I can not be a father directly, but for you I will get sons. THAT IS WHY THESE CHILDREN ARE CALLED PANDAVAS.
@Akhil
Brother I think you are wrong somewhere, Sun is non-alive matter & part of Prakriti. How non-alive matter can give children to Kunti. & I could not understand how without physical relation one can get son. I am sure there is something different getting of son by widow women. If we may leave to Kunti than it is Amba & Amblika got sons after their husband death?
@Truth Seeker
Perhaps u did not read my comment properly.
At the very beginning I said the truth of Mahabharat. In Mahabharat, Rishi Ved vyasa has shown a number of practices prevailing at that time, and tried to tell that such practices are not good for the society. And he pointed out that Vedas are the only path to be followed. Srimad Bhagavat Geeta is nothing but his commentary on Vedas.
So the matter of Amba and Ambika are the practices he raised with a suggestion to put an end to that. U can find the reference in Bhagabat.
So far as a son from Sun is concerned, u must appreciate the fact that Kunti got a mantra to get a child from the God she desires. The mantra may be some kind of technology to get child without intercourse. We cant deny. And yes, Sun is non-living. So when it is said son of Sun, it meant a child which will have the qualities that Sun has.
We must not forget that Mahabharat is a poem, and as we read poems to understand the inner idea of the poem, we have to read mahabharat in that same eyes.
@Akhila
Thank You brother, you have given very logical views. Nice explanation!
@Truth Seeker
You are welcome.. Even I call myself as truth seeker, coz I am searching truth in this site.
@Ashish Hadke : You have raised such questions which were planted by Britishers and the answer for which are already given on many forums. Still you are fixed there, and just don’t want to understand the fact.
Do you have any kind of archeological prove that Aryan Invasion ever happened ? Follow the link to know the truth : http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/scientific-verif-vedas.html.
>>>>>> Aryans and followers of Vedas are ractual offenders and convicter of this Bhumi.They are just like Muslims who was come here for rule or destroy us but they remain here and grab this Bhumi claverly.>>>>>>>
This sentence shows that you have never gone through Indian History. Again I am asking the same question, any prove ?? Who were the original inhabitants whose land had been destroyed ? Atmost you can point out Arya and Dravid concept.
Then learn first. Dravid is originated from the word “Dramila”. It is the root word for Tamil too. But do you know for whom this word was 1st used ?? He was Maharishi Gautam. He was born and died on the bank of River Godavari. He had contributed many verses of Rig Veda and he also wrote ” Goutam Smriti” . But he was also called an Arya.
Next great saint with whose name the word “Dramila” was used was Chanakya. I dont need to give any explanation that he was a teacher in taxila University, born in the Kingdom of magadh.
>>>>> In fact Hinduism ( followers of vedas) believe in 1. Non equality>>>>>
Particular verse of Vedas please.
>>>>>>2. Baseless “havens” in which they burns the valuable products and living beings >>>>>>>
Which valuable things and Living things you are pointing out ? Be clear on this issue.
>>>>>>>>3. Glorify and respect to useless, good for noting, cabbage persons (i.e. Bhrahmins) and hatered to national builders I.e. averna, shatriya and vaishya.>>>>>>>
So according to you praising those persons who were doctors (viz. charak), Mathematicians (viz. Arya Bhatta), Scientists (viz. kanad), Economist (viz. Chanakya) is wrong.. And praising a rapist, mass murder (viz. mohammed) and a liar (Christ) is right…
>>>>>>>>4. Lie and baseless rituals , tantra, mantra>>>>>>>
Any particular mantra or tantra from Veda… You may say all, but I am asking about the worst in your view. I asking for the worst because, if I will establish the worst being good, u have to accept there is nothing wrong in others.
>>>>>>5. untruth –>>>>>>
What is untruth in Vedas ?? Be specific.
dear owner don’t delete my post,i need explanation and Hindu response for my post
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3. Allegation of Hinduism hater:
“O Husband protect the son to be born. Do not make him a women” – Atharva Ved 2/3/23
====================
agniveer ji muslims claim that these atharvaveda verses dont exist as it has only 6 verses…please clearify on this…
So it is obvious that a fake allegation was put on Vedas to denigrate them, right? Thus those having any objection should question the author of original article rather than Agniveer.
So all that Agniveer can be alleged to have done is to reply to a fraud in his own fraud language!
This answer should suffice for those who bring up doubts only out of hatred and not a true desire to discover truth.
But for those who are unbiased, here is more:
Most articles against Hinduism written out of hatred are full of wrong references. This was also a classic case. That is why instead of just giving the correct meaning, we also gave reference to the actual phrase of the mantra – “Ma Pumansam Striyam Kran”. This mantra can be found in Atharvaveda 8.6.25. Our job is not to edit the article written by a fraud, but to address possible allegations on Vedas that can confuse the well-intentioned truth-seeker.
Admin
Shri Agniveer Team,
One thing which bothers me a lot is that most of the hindus are Orthodox. Just by watching ramand sagar’s Ramayan and Chopra’s Mahabharat, they got to conclusion as per what they said. For example, rakshas with large canines, molars and flying monkeys. If the original scripts zare in sanskrit then why they blindly believe books in local languages like braj and hindi. Infact, even Ramayan and Mahabhart seem to be adulterated.
In Mahabharat, some authors say that ghandhari had shat putra. But in those days, why any royal blood be named as duhdur as suffix. Dushashan mean the fowl ruler. Same goes to duryodhan. Mahabharat has a chapter ehich has repeated many same names and similar names with same interpretation.
8 years ago, I met one sanyasi ji, who said that ghandhari had sapt putra and not shat putra. He said that words were modified and even many shlokas were added to malign this great book. However, I challenged his point from my conservative views. Now I have transformed into rational person and I regret asking that sanyasi about where he lived, what he does and what else he knows ?
He told me that one thing is sure that even if anyone (as an individual ) tries to translate the real Mahabhart (if at all exists) then also it will take entire life of his, but with incompleted translation.
I challenged him that i already have the hindi version. Now I know that I was wrong.
I also raised question on him, as he was against idol worship, but was a disciple or Krishna and Ram. I have learnt a lot from this site and now really respect that person and apologize for arguing with him.
@ satyendra –
not only you, many people do the same. Some years ago i used to work for an ngo whose object is to empower dalits. There i found hinduism is the worst of religion. I did nt have any knowledge about vedas, so i believed what i saw and heard from them.
Later i changed my faith to christianity. I was feeling proud of myself.
One day i had an argument with a person in a train. He challanged me to bring one good in bible which is not in Gita.
I spent 8 months exploring gita and bible, and found gita is more logical then bible.
And at the same time i understood what bible is.
The very 1st sentence of bible proves tha its not divine. The genesis is responsible for 350 years of war by the catholics, its ot is responsible for racism, white black concept, slavery, all are there because of bible.
I feel ashamed of me. Mean while i came across this site and understood my root.
Female employment
See also: Islamic economics in the world.
The labor force in the Caliphate were employed from diverse ethnic and religious backgrounds, while both men and women were involved in diverse occupations and economic activities.[29] Women were employed in a wide range of commercial activities and diverse occupations[30] in the primary sector (as farmers, for example), secondary sector (as construction workers, dyers, spinners, etc.) and tertiary sector (as investors, doctors, nurses, presidents of guilds, brokers, peddlers, lenders, scholars, etc.).[31] Muslim women also held a monopoly over certain branches of the textile industry,[30] the largest and most specialized and market-oriented industry at the time, in occupations such as spinning, dyeing, and embroidery. In comparison, female property rights and wage labour were relatively uncommon in Europe until the Industrial Revolution in the 18th and 19th centuries.[32]
In the 12th century, the famous Islamic philosopher and qadi (judge) Ibn Rushd, known to the West as Averroes, claimed that women were equal to men in all respects and possessed equal capacities to shine in peace and in war, citing examples of female warriors among the Arabs, Greeks and Africans to support his case.[33] In early Muslim history, examples of notable female Muslims who fought during the Muslim conquests and Fitna (civil wars) as soldiers or generals included Nusaybah Bint k’ab Al Maziniyyah[34] a.k.a. Umm Amarah, Aisha,[35] Kahula and Wafeira.[36]
A unique feature of medieval Muslim hospitals was the role of female staff, who were rarely employed in hospitals elsewhere in the world. Medieval Muslim hospitals commonly employed female nurses. Muslim hospitals were also the first to employ female physicians, the most famous being two female physicians from the Banu Zuhr family who served the Almohad ruler Abu Yusuf Ya’qub al-Mansur in the 12th century.[37] This was necessary due to the segregation between male and female patients in Islamic hospitals. Later in…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam
“Saudis consider male guardianship a right of women. In a 2010 interview with the New York Times, Saudi women defended male guardianship as providing protection and love.[3]
In Saudi culture, women have their integrity and a special life that is separate from men. As a Saudi woman, I demand to have a guardian. My work requires me to go to different regions of Saudi Arabia, and during my business trips I always bring my husband or my brother. They ask nothing in return—they only want to be with me.
The image in the West is that we are dominated by men, but they always forget the aspect of love. People who aren’t familiar with Shariah often have the wrong idea. If you want stability and safety in your life, if you want a husband who takes care of you, you won’t find it except in Islam.
In 2008, some Saudi women launched a petition “My Guardian Knows What’s Best for Me,” which gathered over 5,000 signatures. The petition defended the status quo and requested punishment for activists demanding “equality between men and women, [and] mingling between men and women in mixed environments”
So, you start out with the presumption that all the saudi women want male guardianship. Or, is it that the entire saudi women folk was present at the interview, which in any case should be a world record. Anyways, allah knows the best.
“As a Saudi woman, I demand to have a guardian.” Why not, if you feel insecure you should ask for one? But is it that only males can be guardians? And those males should only be your blood/social relations. So, you mean to say police/security officials have no role to play in guaranteeing the safety and security of the vulnerable sections of the society. In a previous post, you state that many a muslim women have fought in wars. Now, the question arises a muslim woman who can fight in wars, still needs a male guardian. How logical is this? Anyways allah knows the best. BTW, you also give out the impression that saudi arabia is such a place where the security of the women is always at risk such that their women folk have to demand for male guardianship.
“If you want a husband who takes care of you, you won’t find it except in Islam.” Are you kidding me? Someone who you are going to share with a horde of other wives, someone who is going to beat you lightly for your wrongs, but not the other way round, someone who is going to divorce you by simply saying talaq 3 times be it under jest, intoxication, fit of rage. Anyways, you are entitled to your opinions.
So, you demanded punishment for the liberal activists. Why so? When you are convinced of what you want, why muzzle the voice of dissenting opinion? Why not let them have what they want? Why do you need to shove your ideas down their throats? But, you cannot help it, can you? You are of course following the sharia that knows only to oppress the voices of freedom. If you are tethered to a particular philosophy that does not go well others, why then the need to demand punishment for them?
So, you start out with a few assumptions to start with viz. all the saudi women want male guardianship; that…
replace presumption with assumption, typo 🙂
@Shabeer
Sorry, I could not understand what you want to say by copy paste a lot of stuff. Please write briefly/specifically & dont waste your time also. By the way what is your take on KB this comment http://agniveer.com/621/polygamy-hinduism/#comment-27399. Please discusses all issue one by one & dont copy paste too much.
@Shabeer
There are many issue which are to be settled like polygamy, incest in Islam, Allah was sitting idly before this creation, killing of apostate, Kaba stone worship, Allah is just limited to his/her throne, Allah has form & he made Aadam & Eve with his both hands, Allah has worship desires, punishment of eternal hell, reasons of universe creation etc. List goes on. But we can discuss all the issue one by one & if you start your lengthy copy paste stuff, we can not go further to find out the truth. We are all here only to find out the truth not denigrating each-other. Truth will be acknowledged/judged on the basis of logic not on superstitions.
“One : Both man and woman originated from the same soul.
They are like the two sides of a coin. Although both are independent,
it is their mutuality which gives each its fullness.” And yet a woman is half as intelligent as a man.
“Two : Neither can a woman be like a man nor a man be like a
woman. Each has its very own different, yet, potentially mutual,
existence.” May be not physically, but what about the intellectual, emotional, spiritual, aspects?
@SDC
Brother Shabeer will hardly response to you, he will start a new topic/thread after sometime. I think he is just copy paster deputed by fanatics.
TS, I know he is not competent enough to produce such material. Definitely, he is working as the front for the fanatics, but I am in no mood to put up with this shit. I intend to answer all that he comes up with.
Both have their respective duties, and the duties of the females are determined by the males.
“It is against the very law of nature for a man to undertake
the responsibilities of a woman and for a woman to try to fulfill those
of a man.” Which law of nature are you referring? I know of no such law. Maybe, it is the islamic law that you are probably hinting at.
“It should not be at the expense of the other’s rights that
each seeks to fulfill one’s obligations and enjoy one’s own rights.” And who determines their rights? And why not, the quran of course?
So, now we will have to rely on 1 book to determine what and who a woman is? We will have to surrender our common sense to it.
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