This article is also available in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/6029/the-vedic-god-gu/
Note: By ‘God’ we imply Ishwar or the Supreme Entity and NOT ‘Devata’. ‘Devata’ is a different term but often wrongly considered to mean ‘Supreme Entity’.
While Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’, any entity – living or non-living – that helps us or is useful for us is termed ‘Devata’. But that does not mean every entity is Ishwar and should be worshipped. To avoid confusion, we shall use the term ‘Ishwar’ in this article.
The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)
Q: How many Ishwar are there in Vedas? We heard there are huge number of Ishwar in Vedas.
A: You have heard from wrong sources. Vedas clearly specify that there is One and only One Ishwar. And there is no mantra in Vedas that can be interpreted to imply multiple Ishwars.
Not only this, Vedas also refuse existence of any angel or Prophet or incarnation who is necessarily required to act as an agent between You and Ishwar.
To give a rough analogy:
Ishwar of Vedas = God of Christianity minus the concept of Trinity minus the necessity to surrender to Jesus
Ishwar of Vedas = Allah of Islam minus the necessity to accept Muhammad as final Prophet.
In other words, If someone says first part of Shahada : lâ ilâha illallâh (There is no other God except one and only Allah) but rejects the second part : Muḥammadur rasûlullâh (Muhammad is his messenger), that is close to concept of Vedic God.
In Islam, it is Shirk or greatest sin to worship anything except Allah. If you take this concept further and also refuse to accept any Muhammad or Gabriel as necessary to be remembered apart from Allah, you are avoiding Shirk as per Vedas.
Q: What about the various Gods or Devatas mentioned in Vedas? What about 33 crore Gods?
A:
1. As mentioned earlier, Devata refers to entities that are useful for us. But nowhere it is mentioned in Vedas that we should worship these entities. Of course, Ishwar is the Devata or Devatas and hence called ‘Mahadeva’. He alone is to be worshipped.
2. The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman very clearly. These include -
8 Vasus (Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Moon, Sun, Stars/ Planets) that form components of universe where we live,
10 Life Forces in our body or Prana (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) and 1 Soul called Rudra,
12 Aditya or months of year,
1 Vidyut or Electromagnetic force that is of tremendous use to us
1 Yajna or constant noble selfless deeds done by humans
The master of these 33 Devatas is the Mahadeva or Ishwar who alone is to be worshipped as per 14th Kanda of Shatpath Brahman.
The concept of 33 Devatas is a great research based subject in itself and requires in-depth study for proper understanding. However, it has been made very clear in all Vedic texts that they are NOT Ishwar and hence NOT to be worshipped.
3. Ishwar has huge number of properties. Ignorant people wrongly consider these properties of Ishwar to be different Ishwars. For example, in today’s newspaper there were 2 headlines – One referred to Dr Singh and other to Manmohan. That does not mean India has two Prime Ministers!
4. To dispel such confusions, there are several mantras in Vedas that clearly state that there is One and Only One Ishwar without any assistants, agents, prophets or juniors to liaison between Him and Us. For example:
Yajurveda 40.1:
This entire world is embedded within and managed by the One and Only One Ishwar. Never dare do any injustice or desire riches through unjust means. Instead follow the righteous path and enjoy His bliss. After all He alone is source of all bliss!
Rigveda 10.48.1:
Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.
Rigveda 10.48.5
Ishwar enlightens the entire world. He is undefeated and undying. He is the creator of the world. All souls should seek bliss through seeking knowledge and acting thereupon. They should never shun the friendship of Ishwar.
Rigveda 10.49.1
Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.
Yajurveda 13.4
There is One and only One Creator and Maintainer of the entire world. He alone is sustaining the earth, sky and other heavenly bodies. He is Bliss Himself! He alone deserves to be worshipped by us.
Atharvaveda 13.4.16-21
He is neither two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor six, nor seven, nor eight, nor nine, nor ten. He is, on contrary, One and Only One. There is no Ishwar except Him. All devatas reside within Him and are controlled by Him. So He alone should be worshipped, none else.
Atharvaveda 10.7.38
Ishwar alone is greatest and worth being worshipped. He is the source of all knowledge and activities.
Yajurveda 32.11
Ishwar resides at each point in universe. No space is devoid of Him. He is self-sustaining and does not need help of any agent, angel, prophet or incarnation to perform His duties. The soul which is able to realize this One and only One Ishwar achieves Him and enjoys unconditional ultimate bliss or Moksha.
There are innumerable such mantras in Vedas that explain One and Only One Ishwar and instructs us to worship Him directly without invoking any other entity – Incarnation, Prophet, Angel or Agent.
Q: How do you establish existence of Ishwar?
A: Through direct and indirect evidences.
Q: But direct evidence of Ishwar cannot be possible. How do you then establish Ishwar?
A:
1. Evidence means the clear knowledge determined through stimuli received from sense organs. But note that sense organs capture the properties and not the ’cause of these properties’.
For example, when you read this article, you do not capture existence of Agniveer, but only certain images coming on your screen that you interpret into meaningful knowledge. And then you conclude that there has to be some writer of this article and claim that you have evidence of existence of Agniveer. So this is ‘indirect evidence’ even though it appears ‘direct’.
Similarly, this whole creation that we observe via its properties through sense organs imply existence of Ishwar.
2. When you can link a sensory input directly to an entity, you claim to have ‘direct evidence’. For example when you eat a mango, you feel the property of sweetness and associate it with the mango that you consumed. What is important is that you can associate such ‘direct evidence’ ONLY with specific sense organ that was used to observe that property.
Thus in previous example, you cannot have ‘direct evidence’ of mango through ‘ears’ but only through ‘tongue’ or ‘nose’ or ‘eyes’.
Also in reality this is also ‘indirect evidence’ though we term it ‘direct evidence’ for sake of simplicity.
Now since Ishwar is the most subtle entity existing, it is impossible to have ‘direct evidence’ of Ishwar through coarse sense organs like eyes, nose, tongue, skin or ears. For example we cannot see subatomic particles even through most powerful microscopes, we cannot hear ultrasonic sound, we cannot feel the touch of each individual molecule.
In other words, Ishwar is impossible to be evidenced through these coarse and weak sense organs just as mango cannot be sensed through ears or subatomic particles cannot be sensed through any sense organ for that matter.
3. The only organ that can sense Ishwar is mind or Mana. When mind is fully controlled and devoid of involuntary disturbances (like thousands of thoughts coming all the time) and adequate knowledge about properties of Ishwar has been obtained through study and practice, Ishwar can be evidenced directly through intellect in same manner as a mango is evidenced through its taste.
This is the goal of life and this is what a Yogi attempts to do through all the various methods of mind control that include cultivating traits like non-violence, truth-seeking, compassion, seeking bliss for all, high moral character, fighting against injustice, unity among people, etc etc.
4. In a way we get hints of direct evidence of Ishwar everyday in our life. When we try to indulge in any wrong act like theft, cheating, brutality, we hear that faint ‘inner voice’ in form of fear, shame, doubt etc. And when we indulge in noble deeds like helping others, blessing a child etc, we again hear that ‘inner voice’ in form of fearlessless, sense of satisfaction, enthusiasm and feeling of bliss.
This ‘inner voice’ is from Ishwar. Often we reduce its audibility by trying to silence it through loud DJ Music of stupid tendencies around. But then we all at times feel this ‘inner voice’ getting louder now and then, when things are relatively silent.
5. And when the soul purifies itself from mental disturbances and gets away from the DJ club, it is able to directly evidence itself as well as Ishwar.
Hence both through direct and indirect evidence, Ishwar is established as clearly as other entities witnessed by us.
Q: Where does Ishwar live?
A:
1. Ishwar is omnipresent and hence resides everywhere. Had Ishwar been living at a particular place like some special sky or on some special throne, He could not have been omniscient, omnipotent, manager of all, creator of all and destructor of all. You cannot perform actions at a place where you are not present.
2. If you say that Ishwar manages the world from one place just like sun illuminates earth from far off or you watch TV through remote control, this is defective logic. Because sun is able to illuminate the earth or remote control is able to operate the TV only through radiation waves that travel through the interim space. Just because we are unable to see them we call it remote control. In reality there is nothing like a remote control. Thus the very fact that Ishwar is able to manage something implies that it is present there to manage it.
3. Further, if Ishwar is omnipotent, why would He be scared to restrict Himself to a small space. This makes Ishwar limited. Christians say God is on 4th sky and Muslims say that Allah is on 7th sky. And their followers keep fighting each other to prove themselves right. Is it that God and Allah decided to live in separate skies so that they also do not start fighting like their angry followers?
In reality these are childish talks. When Ishwar is All-Powerful and controls entire universe, there is no reason why He would be scared to limit himself to a small part of universe. And if He is, he cannot be termed All-Powerful.
Q: Does it mean Ishwar is also in dirty things like alcohol, urine, excreta?
A:
1. The entire creation is within Ishwar. Because Ishwar is also outside these things but these things do not exist outside Ishwar. So all things in world are pervaded by Ishwar. To give a very rough analogy, we are within Ishwar in similar manner as a pice of cloth within tub of water. There is water within, outside and all around the cloth. There is no portion of cloth which is not wet with water but there is water beyond the cloth as well.
2. Anything is dirty or good for us depending upon our duty towards it. The same set of atoms that form the tasty mango we eat is so lovely for us. But when the atoms disintegrate, interact with other chemicals and form excreta, that becomes dirty for us. But in essence all these are merely different combinations of particles of nature. Since we have a mission on this earth, we analyze each thing with regards to the mission and accept some/ reject rest. What we reject is dirty or trash for us and what we accept is good for us. But for God, such duty does not exist and hence nothing is dirty for Him. On contrary, His duty is different from ours – to help us achieve bliss in just manner – and hence nothing in His entire creation is untouchable for Him.
3. If you look from another analogy, Ishwar is not like a pampered social worker who would prefer to plan remotely in his air-conditioned office but would desist from visiting the slums where actual social work has to be done. He, on contrary, exists to manage the most dirty of the places for our benefit.
4. And since He alone is most perfect, despite He being everywhere and everything being within Him, He is separate and different from these things.
Q: Is Ishwar Kind and Just?
A: Yes. He is the epitome of kindness and justice.
Q: But these are opposite traits. Kindness means to forgive a criminal. And justice means giving punishment to criminal. How can both exist at same time?
A: Kindness and Justice are basically one and same. Because both serve the same purpose.
1. Kindness does not mean forgiving a criminal. Because if that be done, several innocent people would become victims. Thus unless justice is meted out to a criminal, one cannot be kind to innocents. It will also be not justice to the criminal because he would not be prevented from further crimes.
For example, if a dacoit is forgiven, he would harm several innocent people. And if he is imprisoned, it would not only prevent harm to innocents but also allow him opportunity to improve himself and not do further crimes. So in justice alone lies kindness for one and all.
2. In reality, kindness refers to the purpose of Ishwar and justice to the process. When Ishwar punishes a criminal, He does it to prevent the criminal from doing further crimes. And he also prevents innocent people from getting punished for no offense of theirs. Thus the entire purpose of justice is kindness to all.
3. As per Vedas, and observation, the source of sorrow is ignorance which causes one to do wrong acts called crimes. So when a soul does such wrong acts, Ishwar restricts his freedom to do crimes and allows him opportunities to remove his ignorance and remove sorrow.
4. Mere saying sorry is not sufficient to receive pardon of Ishwar. The source of sin or crimes is ignorance and until that is removed, the soul would continue to get rightful punishments or rewards for its actions every moment throughout several births and deaths. And the purpose of all this justice is His kindness towards the soul to gift it with ultimate bliss.
Q: Does that mean, Ishwar will never pardon my sins? Islam or Christianity are better. There, if I confess or say sorry, all my past records are deleted and I am given fresh opportunity.
A:
1. Ishwar does pardon your sins. His pardon lies in the just results of your actions that He provides and not in deleting your past records.
2. If He were to delete your past records, He would be doing greatest injustice and brutality to you. Because in this case, He has allowed you to be promoted to next class even when you have not gained the competence to pass the present class. And in process he is doing injustice to others also who interact with you.
3. Pardoning means providing opportunity to improve your competence and not giving you 100% when you deserved a zero. This is exactly what Ishwar does. And remember that improving competence does not happen in one moment or through one word of ‘Sorry’. It demands dedicated practice and efforts over a period of time. Only lazy people seek shortcuts like trying to get 100% without even studying the course.
4. Unfortunately, those who attract people to their religion by saying that God will forgive their sins are fooling themselves and people. Suppose someone has diabetes. Does it get treated merely by saying sorry? When a physical disease takes much more than a sorry to be treated, how can mind – the most complex thing known to humanity – be treated by a sorry?
5. Actually these ideologies have a blatant flaw – they believe in one life and do not believe in rebirth. So they want to create artificial hurry formula to attract people. And scare them to Hell of they do not agree to them. We have already covered the loopholes of One Life theory in God must be crazy!
6. Vedic philosophy is much more natural, amenable to logic and reasonable. Neither is there a Hell where you would be thrown to burn forever by an Ishwar who is as loving as Mother, nor would He debar you from opportunities to actually raise your competence through efforts and achieve what you truly deserve. After all what is more satisfying:
a. Rank 1 through a fake mark sheet when we know that actually we had got zero, or
b. A proud Rank 1 through hard work and burning midnight oil, when we know that we did the best we could to become masters of the subject!
So in vedas, there are no shortcuts or longcuts to success. There is only the right cut! And the success is much more satisfying than what any illusionary and illusive shortcut can be imagined to provide!
Q: Is Ishwar with form or formless?
A: He is formless as per Vedas and commonsense.
1. He cannot be omnipresent if He has form. Because form implies existence of boundary. And hence He should not exist beyond the boundary if He has form.
2. Form can be seen only if Ishwar is coarse. Because any object finer than what can reflect light waves cannot be seen. Now Vedas clearly define Ishwar as the most finest, without gaps and uniform everywhere. (Refer Yajurveda 40.8 for example). Hence He cannot have form.
3. If Ishwar has a form, it means that someone created His form. This is not possible. If you say that He himself made His form, it means He was formless earlier.
4. If you say that Ishwar is both formless and with form, it is not possible because both are contradictory.
5. If you say that He takes divine forms at times, kindly specify what divine means. Say Ishwar took divine form of a man. Now how will you define boundary of Ishwar atoms and non-Ishwar atoms. Further since He is present everywhere with same density (uniformity), how we distinguish between man-Ishwar and rest of world. And if Ishwar is same everywhere, how are we seeing the boundary?
6. What we see as human body is actually continuous exchange of matter and energy with rest of the world. It is impossible to distinguish each atom as part of human body or rest of the world. So it will be impossible to segregate even body of man-Ishwar. For example, will the spit, urine, sweat and other excreta from man-Ishwar also be divine?
7. In Vedas there is no concept of Ishwar being with form. Further there is nothing that Ishwar cannot do without form that He must assume a form.
8. What we normally consider as divine Ishwar forms – for example people like Ram and Krishna – were actually divinely inspired. Remember, we talked about ‘inner voice’ of Ishwar? These legends were epitome of Ishwar worship and purity of mind. And hence for normal people, they were Ishwar themselves. However Vedas prohibit worship of anyone except Ishwar. Thus, these persons should instead be emulated (their examples be followed in our own real lives) to offer our gratitude to them. This hero-followership is as per Vedas and explained in The power of Now! – Know Vedas.
9. Had Ishwar taken form and worship of these forms been the recipe for salvation, Vedas would have detailed description on this topic. But Vedas do not even hint at such concepts.
Q: Does it mean all these temples and worship of Ram, Krishna, Durga, Lakshmi wrong?
A: Take example of a pious mother living in a remote village. Her son gets bitten by snake. She rushes to local Tantrik for Jhaad Phoonk in an attempt to save life of her child. Would you call her wrong or right?
The bulk of Ishwar worshippers today, be it Hindu, Muslim, Christian or whatever are in same state. Their intentions are genuine and worth greatest respect. But out of ignorance, they adopt wrong practices of worshipping Ishwar. This is obvious from the fact that hardly anyone even knows about the Vedas, even though, at least the Hindus agree that Vedas are supreme.
The right way to show our gratitude to great legends of past should be by imbibing their virtues and doing noble deeds accordingly. For example, we see Ravans all around in form of corruption, terrorism, immorality etc. If we can unite to counter these in rightful manner, that would be true glorification of Ram. Same with Krishna, Durga, Hanuman etc.
I have been a fan of Hanumanji throughout my life. My way of his glorification has been preservation of my moral character and putting efforts for a strong and healthy body that serves the society. What point is in worshipping Hanuman with weak body and irritable stomach yet consuming heavy laddus!
While the motive behind all these modes of worship is worth greatest respect and we humbly bow to the purity of true devotees of any cult, it is our wish to see all devotees to adopt the same methods of worship that Ram or Krishna adopted in their own lives!
Q: Is Ishwar Omnipotent or All-Powerful?
A:
Yes, He is omnipotent. But that does not mean He can do whatever He wants. Doing whatever one may want is sign of indiscipline. On contrary, Ishwar is most disciplined. Omnipotence means that Ishwar does not need help of any other entity to conduct His duties – creation, management, destruction of universe. He is self-sufficient to conduct His duties.
But He would act only as per His duties. For example, He will not kill Himself to create another Ishwar. He cannot make Himself an idiot. He cannot do theft or dacoity etc.
Q: Does Ishwar has a beginning?
A:
Ishwar is without any beginning and without any end. He was always present and will always remain. Further His properties remain same at all times.
Soul and Nature are two other beginningless and endless entities.
Q: What does Ishwar want?
A: Ishwar wants bliss for all souls and wants them to achieve this bliss through deserving efforts purely on basis of merit.
Q: Should we worship Ishwar or not? Why? After all He never forgives!
A: Ishwar should be worshipped and He alone should be worshipped.
It is true that by worship of Ishwar, you will not receive any shortcut pass certificate when you have actually failed. Only lazy and cheaters desire such unscrupulous means to success.
The benefits of worship of Ishwar are different:
a. By worship of Ishwar one is able to understand Ishwar and His creation better.
b. By worship, one is able to better understand His properties and adopt those in his own life.
c. By worship, one is able to hear ‘inner voice’ better and get constant clearer guidance from Him.
d. By worship, one eradicates ignorance, gains strength and is able to withstand toughest challenges in life with confidence and aplomb.
e. Ultimately, one is able to remove ignorance completely and achieve Moksha or salvation with ultimate bliss.
Please note that worship does not mean some mechanical recitations or blankness of mind. It is a proactive approach to imbibe wisdom through actions, knowledge and contemplation.
We shall discuss this in detail subsequently. For now, you can refer to: How to worship?
Q: When Ishwar does not have limbs and sense organs, how does He conduct His actions?
A: He does not need coarse organs for his actions that happen at most microscopic level. He does so through His inherent powers. He sees without eyes because his eyes are present at every points in space, He does not have legs, but is fastest, He does not have ears but listens to everything, He knows everything but is beyond complete cognizance of everybody. This shloka comes in Upanishad. Ishopanishad also describes this in detail.
Q: Does Ishwar know His limits?
A: Ishwar knows everything. This means that He knows whatever is truth. Since Ishwar is limitless, He knows Himself as limitless. It would render Him ignorant if He tries to know His limits when none exist.
Q: Is Ishwar Saguna or Nirguna?
A: Both. Ishwar is Saguna if you refer to properties like Kindness, Just, Creator, Maintainer etc. But He is Nirguna, if you refer to properties that He does not possess – like dumbness, senselessness, anger, cheating, birth, death etc. Its only a semantic difference.
Q: Please summarize major properties of Ishwar as per Vedas.
A: His properties are infinite and cannot be expressed in words. But here are some major properties:
- He exists
- He is animate
- He is source of all bliss and happiness
- He is formless
- He is unchangeable
- He is all-powerful
- He is just
- He is kind
- He is unborn
- He never dies
- He is infinite
- He is omnipresent
- He has no defects
- He has no beginning and no end either in time or space
- He is uncomparable
- He maintains entire universe
- He creates entire universe
- He knows everything
- He never deteriorates and remains perfect always
- He is fearless
- He is pure
- He has no agents and establishes direct relationship with all souls.
He alone deserves to be worshipped without invoking anyone else.
This alone is the path to bliss and removal of all miseries!
Now enjoy a beautiful song summarizing some of the properties of Ishwar:
Do not miss these:
About Agniveer
WHO IS AGNI?
WHY AGNIVEER WORSHIPS AGNI?
Agni is a synonym of Ishwar. Ishwar has many synonyms signifying different properties of Ishwar. ‘Agni’ is the first name of Ishwar used in the Vedas. Refer http://agniveer.com/about-agniveer/
But you wrote
>>>>Q: What about the various Gods or Devatas mentioned in Vedas? What about 33 crore Gods?
A:
1. As mentioned earlier, Devata refers to entities that are useful for us. But nowhere it is mentioned in Vedas that we should worship these entities. Of course, Ishwar is the Devata or Devatas and hence called ‘Mahadeva’. He alone is to be worshipped.
2. The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman very clearly. These include -
8 Vasus (Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Moon, Sun, Stars/ Planets) that form components of universe where we live,
10 Life Forces in our body or Prana (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) and 1 Soul called Rudra,
12 Aditya or months of year,
1 Vidyut or Electromagnetic force that is of tremendous use to us
1 Yajna or constant noble selfless deeds done by humans
The master of these 33 Devatas is the Mahadeva or Ishwar who alone is to be worshipped as per 14th Kanda of Shatpath Brahman.<<<<
then who is fire? what is the name of fire in vedas?
Agni means “the one who enlightens”. If context is of physical enlightening, Agni will mean physical fire there. If context is of spiritual enlightening, Agni will mean Eeshvar.
Eeshvar has been called as our Mother, Father etc in Vedas for His properties like creation, care and love for us. But it does not mean that our mother is Eeshvar! Rather it was the word “Mata” which meant caring and loving! And thus, whoever cares you and loves you like mother, can be called as Mother. Similar way, anything, which is enlightening your soul through knowledge and love, be it friend, scholar, mother, father, brother, sister, or Eeshvar, will be called as Agni.
Hope it helps.
Agni is not the term used for the Fire emerging out from furnace or from the stove which you physically see with your eyes and also sense the heat , these are the consequences of it .
Agni is the basic entity i.e the (transition) energy provided to the atomic & subatomic
entities – the building blocks of the materials- by the GOD during the process of design-
developments and formation /construction of the materials which we visually see/sense.
Hence in a veague term we call GOD as agni.
From the word Mahadevata , if somebody tries to draw the physical meaning out of it, can say the mahadevata can also be non -living entity. But he is being the basis of all of the Devata’s hence
can be called mavadevata and also it means the most “propkari” – the profound giver.
@Islamisgreat
Fire is called tapas which is different from agni which is different from surya !!
welcome to the world of subtle differences
@IslamisGreat
you’d be surprised to know that fire itself is called by different names based on the objectives it serves from the human perspective!..it may be called pavaka, vahni, anala depending on the kind of fire it is !
Agni is the supreme source of whatever illumines the universe
HOW CAN AN AGNOSTIC BELIEVE IN SUPREME ENTITY
Islam
At least this is more probable than the fact that Islam is Great!
Islam —- World’s Greatest Religion !
bismillah
Islam (Arabic: الإسلام; al-’islām (help·info)) is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure. The word Islam means “submission”, or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic: الله, Allāh).[1] An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning “one who submits (to God)”.[2][3] There are between 1.2 billion to 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world after Christianity.[4]
Muslims believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad, God’s final prophet, and regard the Qur’an and the Sunnah (words and deeds of Muhammad) as the fundamental sources of Islam.[5] They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Jews and Christians distorted the revelations God gave to these prophets by either altering the text, introducing a false interpretation, or both.[6]
Islam includes many religious practices. Adherents are generally required to observe the Five Pillars of Islam, which are five duties that unite Muslims into a community.[7] In addition to the Five Pillars, Islamic law (sharia) has developed a tradition of rulings that touch on virtually all aspects of life and society. This tradition encompasses everything from practical matters like dietary laws and banking to warfare.[8]
Almost all Muslims belong to one of two major denominations, the Sunni (85%) and Shi’a (15%). The schism developed in the late 7th century following disagreements over the religious and political leadership of the Muslim community. Islam is the predominant religion throughout the Middle East, as well as in parts of Africa and Asia. Large communities are also found in China, the Balkan Peninsula in Eastern Europe and Russia. There are also large Muslim immigrant communities in other parts of the world such as Western Europe. About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries.[9]
No one gives a shit.
@Agniveer/ Other Brother
I am a Muslim girl visiting this website since last one year & reading the comments. WE believe Allah is above the heaven but as per Hindusim God is omnipresent. But this statement of Agniveer in artcile is not clear to me. please clarify this more in details.
____ If you say that Ishwar manages the world from one place just like sun illuminates earth from far off or you watch TV through remote control, this is defective logic. Because sun is able to illuminate the earth or remote control is able to operate the TV only through radiation waves that travel through the interim space. Just because we are unable to see them we call it remote control. In reality there is nothing like a remote control. Thus the very fact that Ishwar is able to manage something implies that it is present there to manage it._____ (Para Taken from Article)
@Safiya:
Let me offer my thoughts. The issue of material cause of the universe in Hinduism comes of two forms:
(a)Transformative material cause and (b)Transfigurative material cause. Dvaita believes in God being only the efficient cause of the universe. Prakriti is the material cause. Prakriti is not God BUT, Prakriti is completely dependent on God for its existence and action. Also, there are quotes which suggest that God himself entered the sun, moon, eye [all of which are made out of Prakriti] to guide them. So, in this sense, God is omnipresent. This is transformative material cause. That is Prakriti itself is actually transformed.
Advaita believes in God being both the efficient AND material cause of the universe. The standard example of this is that of mistaking the rope for a snake in the dark. Now, what is the material cause of the perceived snake? It is the rope + our ignorance. So, in this case, the material cause of the world is Brahman + Maya. So, here, actual transformation of Brahman doesnt occur. Brahman only appears as manifold. But in essence Brahman always was the substratum of our experiences. So, here, the material cause is transfigurative.
In both cases, Brahman is omnipresent.
Hope this clarifies the issue to some extent. Other thoughts welcome!
Incarnation in Veda : Atharvaveda mantra 9/10/16
APAANG PRAANGETI SWDHAYAA GRIBHITAH AMARTYO MARTYENAA SAYONIHI. TA SHASHVANTA VISHUCHINA VIYANTA NYA NYAM CHIKYURN NI CHIKYURNYAM. 9:10:16
“Based on the sins and pious deeds souls take lower/degenerated and higher births. Only Scholar know this not fool.”
http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/atharvaveda_v2/pages/p210.gif
Because Agni is an apsect of God understadable by human mind. Creator sustainer and liberator.
Thats why worshipping Agni is a moral repsonsibility just like we should respect our mother, we should worship God.
Agni is an aspect of God understandble by human mind.
33 Koti of devatas has been described even in Skand Puran Narad Sutanu samvaad Matrika Ghyan.
Yajurveda 40.1:
This entire world is embedded within and managed by the One and Only One Ishwar. Never dare do any injustice or desire riches through unjust means. Instead follow the righteous path and enjoy His bliss. After all He alone is source of all bliss!
Rigveda 10.48.1:
Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.
Rigveda 10.48.5
Ishwar enlightens the entire world. He is undefeated and undying. He is the creator of the world. All souls should seek bliss through seeking knowledge and acting thereupon. They should never shun the friendship of Ishwar.
Rigveda 10.49.1
Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.
Yajurveda 13.4
There is One and only One Creator and Maintainer of the entire world. He alone is sustaining the earth, sky and other heavenly bodies. He is Bliss Himself! He alone deserves to be worshipped by us.
Atharvaveda 13.4.16-21
He is neither two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor six, nor seven, nor eight, nor nine, nor ten. He is, on contrary, One and Only One. There is no Ishwar except Him. All devatas reside within Him and are controlled by Him. So He alone should be worshipped, none else.
But agniveer said ISWAR has to be worshipped along
Atharvaveda 10.7.38
Ishwar alone is greatest and worth being worshipped. He is the source of all knowledge and activities.
Yajurveda 32.11
Ishwar resides at each point in universe. No space is devoid of Him. He is self-sustaining and does not need help of any agent, angel, prophet or incarnation to perform His duties. The soul which is able to realize this One and only One Ishwar achieves Him and enjoys unconditional ultimate bliss or Moksha.
Not everything in the Vedas should be considered religious, some maybe properties. As one does not read a science book and expect any reference of god, the Vedas were used for practical education as India historically were the richest, most educated, most powerful and country in history. Since the Vedas are said to contain all knowledge, knowledge of fire its properties would be also contained.Except for a few verse that speak of god, there is no other place where in the Vedas this arise. Like they are various plant listed in Vedas including properties and uses.
This makes one good point Vedas are not prophetic religions. They believe in self respect one can know of god.
@@सभी सत्य को जानने के लिए जिज्ञाशु
कृपया अपने ज्ञान के लिए इस लेख पर भी ध्यान दीजिये !
वेद और अद्वैतवाद
http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/adwait/
Namaste Satya,
is lekh mein advait ko sahi dhang na to samjha gaya hai na samjhaya gaya hai
advait ka artha nishkarmana hona kadapi nahi hai – ho bhi nahi sakta jab ki advaita vedanti ke liye gita ka updesh shirodharya ho
isha 6,7 ko padhein to ek arth nikalta hai, jaane to doosra
advait par aarop bhi galat lagaye gaye hain
..dakshin ke raja hi islam ke aatank se khud ko bachate rahe jahaan advait ka samman hota tha ..uttar mein kya dasha hui ye sabhi jaante hain – kya uske liye vedon ko doshi maana jaye?
kripaya advait ko samajhne ki koshis karein ..agar dosharapan uddeshya hai to jaari rahiye
@Indian Agnostic/Agniveer
I think there should be a debate on this. Because this site is running on name of Agniveerfans. Agniveer or writer should clarify his stand on article. Please, you do help to amend/correct this article by putting your refutations/disagreement on points mentioned in article. If you are true there may wrong massage by writer of article. Please do not take my word in wrong way it just for understanding the concept & find out truth.
http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/adwait/
Namaste Satya
I think Agniveer has taken up a much bigger responsibility of spreading Vedas and countering frauds and fanatics than to debate on non issues. Disputes of Advaita and Traita are purely philosophical, sorting out which should come at the lowest level in one’s priority list, especially when some cults are trying tooth and nail to destroy the very existence of Hindus.
Agniveer are responsible only for what they publish and not for what is published in their name or their fans’ name anywhere in the world.
@Vajra
Ok, its true Agniveer already have taken bigger responsibility than such a non-issue matter. Leave the Agniveer, but student of Vedic school like You, IA, KB & others can help to rectify the content of Article. Because I think this site “Agniveerfans” very supporting to spread message of Veda. They have written many good/logical articles.
Our views regarding Advaita is summarized in http://agniveer.com/5090/fountainhead-philosophies-vedas/.
But do note that we are not in a position to provide final answers. They have to be answered yourself with blessings of Supreme. We merely help seek the right questions.
We appreciate Agniveerfans for some really useful articles specially on nationalism. And we respect their right to even differ from us so far the intent is noble.
We would keenly observe any discussions you have on this to enhance our own learnings.
Dhanyavad
@Indian Agnostic
Please clerify
http://agniveer.com/5090/fountainhead-philosophies-vedas/#comment-46433
Dear Agniveer ! I have two questions.The 1st one is “From which source the concept of “Idol-worship” has entered in Hinduism ? & the 2nd one is”As Vedas never permits Idol-worship so why Hindus still do Idol-worship?
Bhai logic seeker,
1. The source of idolworship is our Agyan and murkhata of jainism and buddhism.before these schools there were not idol.
2. Same answer Agyan i.e due to neglecting vedas for getting shortcut in adhyatm.
@Logic_seeker
Brother, idol worship is the result of ignorance, which never demands any source. Ignorance comes when people start ignoring Vedas and try to establish their own agenda for fame and luxuries. You can see idol worship being practiced in all so called religions like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. If everybody continues practicing worship of one formless Eeshvar, no cult, no Guru, no Matha, no prophet can be established. So, greedy people, for wealth and fame, start preaching such anti Vedic doctrines in the name of Vedas and Old Rishis or God himself. This is how Puranas, Bible, Quran etc came into existence! Puranas were written much later than Rishi Vyas, but people wrote anything which suited their agenda and presented it in the name of Rishi Vyas. You would find thousands of contradictions, errors, vulgarity in Puranas because they were written to start new cults, which needed the criticism of the already existing cults. Interestingly, you would find Shlokas both in favour and against idol worship in Puranas!
Vedas prohibit many more things like flesh eating, telling lies, vulgarity, etc, but Hindus do it. Vedas provide us the absolute bench mark of morality and knowledge, its up to us, how much we can align ourselves towards Vedas. Vedas are perfect, its up to us, how we can tend towards perfection from imperfection.
Dhanyawad
The Sanatan Dharma becomes more and more prominent in lights of modern physics, astrophysics, biology. Many eminent scientists are accepting the principle of Veda and Upanishads. Scientists expressing doubt on many theories propagated by Islam and Christian. Even mythology of Hindus tells deep story when one judge it from different angle not literally. Like the famous ocean churning story between demons and demigods. It only need clear thinking. Islam and Christian lost their validity in modern world as it can not give peace, unity among all caste, race, people. By forcing or torturing it could not be achieved. Thus Islam and Christian are facing so many ‘????’ marks by sensible seekers.
Would you please explain the 33 types of devatas. As you told The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. It means there are some devatas which lie in the category of Earth, please give some names of these devatas of Earth category. Actually, I was in impression that there are total 33 devatas which can be categorized in 5 classes.
With regards
Vivek Bhaarteeya
@Vivek
Brother, you were right that there are 33 devatas which can be categorized into 5 classes. These five classes may further be divided into corresponding subclasses and then the total of 33 subclasses have been said as Koti due to their different properties. So we can say that there are 33 Koti devatas with one devata in each koti!
Half cooked Knowledge rebuttals
http://truthofhinduism.com/rebuttals/debate-with-an-arya-samaji/comment-page-1/#comment-1897
Its so unfortunate the people who not even the basic knowledge of samskrit Grammar start analyzing things. Agni without an anuswar (:) would translate into Ishwar as only then it be the object (e.g. as in the first mantra of rig Veda) and anywhere with an Anuswar (:) would be otherwise.
Its so unfortunate people call in for debated who don’t even know the grammar other language
the mantra which where it has been quoted that SDS has skipped the translation even there it does not mean Ishwar. Agni is followed by Ardha swar “Sa” which means after viched(opp of sandhi) it would be “Agne:” + whatever follows
i.e Agne: here does not refer to ishwar.
(eg nama: + te becmoes namaste, it has ardha swar “Sa”)
NB. Request for all sandhi and Viched refer to Panni grammar as the basics of understanding veda.
Veda were revealed in the Minds of the Rishis, so the speech is not always in the first person. If the prayer is being made to god “please dont be angered at us” does it mean God says that i am capable of being angry.
Similar explanation goes with other citing also.
even though i can see a lot of effort has been put into compiling this article, but unfortunately without proper knowledge to understand the veda all of your effort is in vain.
I am amazed to see that you could not see something that is staring in your face “Agne” and “Agne:”
Moreover , for any human to understand the Ishwar fully is not possible, the same is presented in the verse which depicts Doubt
so i would really ask you to go to arya samaj for a debate so all your misunderstandin gs are cleared.
Om Tat Sat Brahma Arpan Astu.
Sorry its a Visargh not an anuswar.
typo
@आर्यव्रतस्थ
Brother, please be more clear with the language, could not understand much. Also, what is that SDS skipped, its all confusing!
thanks
@Arya : This comment is related to a topic about the form of God in veda and has been debated here
http://www.theintellectual.info/religion/hinduism/279-general-dialogue-on-islam-and-hinduism
i tired to post the link but it is showing “comment under moderation” i guess once somebody goes through what is written in it, may be then what i have written would make more sense.
dear agniveer or arya or anyone i believe i have a verse from vedas whcih shows that has a place where he lives, Rig Veda Mandal 8; Sukt 13; Mantra 2
In his expansive heavenly mansion, is the location of Ishwar, he who brings success,
Most glorious, prompt to save, who wins the water-floods.”
please can you explain how ishwar is omnipresent if this mantra says otherwise?
Namaste
We have already provided mantras which clearly put him as omnipresent.
The concerned mantra has following simple meaning (There are definitely other deep meanings but we provide a straightforward one for ease of understanding)
Sah: He
Prathame : The Best
Vyomani: provides protection and fearlessness
Devanam: to noble virtuous people and entities to help us
Sadane: Wherever they are (in their natural locations)
Vridhah: And nourishes them for growth
Supaarah: He provides happiness and takes away miseries
Sushravah Tamah: He possess ultimate glory worth being understood
Apsu Jit: Controls all entities in universe.
The problem is the word “Sadane” which means in home or location. But the term is Devanaam Sadane with Devanaam in plural. So it means location of Devas or noble people. No way can the mantra be twisted to interpret it has a specific location of Ishwar. I am afraid but you are referring to a wrong translation.
Admin
Agniveer explain this please
Agni = fire = object
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni
Agni is the eldest son of Brahma. In Visnu Purana, Agni (Abhimani) the fire god is said to have sprung from the mouth of the Virat purusha, the Cosmic Man. His wife is Svaha. Abhimani had three sons of surpassing brilliancy: Pavaka, Pavamana, and Suchi, the personifications of the three fires that produced our earth and humanity (VP 1:10).[11] All these three names indicate purity. Abhimanin, his three sons, and their 45 sons constitute the mystic 49 fires of the Puranas and theosophy. (cf Agni Purana.)
As the eldest son of Brahma, Abhimani represents the cosmic Logos, the first force produced in the universe at its evolution, the fire of cosmic creative desire.
His three sons, according to the Vayu Purana, stand for three different aspects of Agni (fire): Pavaka is the electric fire, Pavamana the fire produced by friction, and Suchi the solar fire. Interpreted on the cosmic and human planes, these three fires are “Spirit, Soul, and Body, the three great Root groups, with their four additional divisions” (SD 2:247). They are said to have been cursed by the sage Vasishtha to be born again and again (cf BP 4:24,4; SD 2:247-8). “Every fire has a distinct function and meaning in the worlds of the physical and the spiritual. It has, moreover, in its essential nature a corresponding relation to one of the human psychic faculties, besides its well determined chemical and physical potencies when coming in contact with the terrestrially differentiated matter” (SD 1:521).
Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life. Agni helps in the various physiological functions of the body.[citation needed]
@ohmygod :
Even thought everything that you have written is illogical but still to reciprocate at your level of intelligence.
There are millions of Muslims with the Name “Muhammad”? (Hum… what is that supposed to mean!!)
And while copy pasting your forgot to read
“Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life”
BTW who sustains life?? in the Vedic tradition its the ESHWAR. So AGIN = ESHWAR in the right context.
Moreover, Puranas are just Stories for entertaining the people; they have no validity and credibility. Veda are the supreme..
आर्यव्रतस्थ says:
November 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM
@ohmygod :
Even thought everything that you have written is illogical but still to reciprocate at your level of intelligence.
There are millions of Muslims with the Name “Muhammad”? (Hum… what is that supposed to mean!!)
And while copy pasting your forgot to read
“Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life”
BTW who sustains life?? in the Vedic tradition its the ESHWAR. So AGIN = ESHWAR in the right context.
Moreover, Puranas are just Stories for entertaining the people; they have no validity and credibility. Veda are the supreme..
it preaches it is formless
then why this
Agni is the eldest son of Brahma.
please explain
Come what may… I’ll keep on worshipping Bhagwan Vishnu.
Shanka Chakra Gadha paani, Dwaarakaa nilayachyuta
Govind pundareekaksha Raksha maam sharanagatam.
Vaishnav
Worship whatever you feel to be worshipped. But be honest with your belief, welcome the healthy discussions, accept the truth, reject the falsehood. Most importantly love all, never force your belief system on others, but never get ruined by others, never get your idols broken again as happened in past. Defend your faith to the last drop of your blood against the oppressors. Give Vishnuji commitment that no body can break His idol forcefully and cant convert you at the edge of the sword as crores of worshippers were converted in past and temples were desecrated.
This is the litmus test for all Krishna worshippers. Debating or even abusing here is very easy but defending faith against sword is very difficult. So be brave like Krishna so that noone can dare to break temples of Krishna in future and convert them to mosques and slaughter houses.
Namaste Agniveer Ji,
You have give us name of 33 Devata, but I want to know more about them in detail like what mean of 10life forces (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) , how they work? From where & which book I can get the detail explanation of all 33.
i live how we have these internet muslim trolls who ask such silly questions!i think there is absolutly nothing wrong with so called”idol worship”,if everyone wordship idols,we would have less 9/11 attacks and more peace in the universe.who are you guys to say that the 33 devathas dont exist?as far as im concerned,there are infinite gods and goddesses,yes infinite,like infinite animal species,there are infinite gods and goddesess.im proud to be a polytheist.if anyone wants to debate,im up for it.i have seen the goddesses in person,so you cant tell me they dont exist mr.”islam is great”.hail satan!
ORIGIN OF VERDICT LANGUAGE:
According to old Hindu pundit belief, there is only one language during the period of creation. (Naredra bushan: history of Vedic sahithia page 27).Most of the Hindu scholar make that verdict language was Sanskrit. But Sanskrit created by human how can it will be a gods language?
”this verdict language not belongs to our today Sanskrit. Sanskrit originated from Vedic Terminology, it depend only the code of Veda, so it being a human language “(Ibid, Page 39) According to language scholar the Sanskrit originated and more related from the Iranian verdict language avastha.They claim the similarity between the Rig-Veda and avastha. (Ibid, Page 41) Sree krishan chaithanya says that “the Egyptian and Mesopotamian language older than the verdict language “(barath encyclopedia vol 2: page731)
According to Dayanand Saraswathi Veda originated 1310 million years ago, this is only his opinion there is no a single clear and valid evidence about his claim.
All the historian and language scholar criticize his opinion.
1. According Max Muller, Rig-Veda originated the period between BC 800 to BC1000 (Fredric Max Muller: The Vedas, Page 25)
2. According to Winternist Rig-Veda has originated 2500 years ago, some scholar claim 4000 years ago.
3. The verses of rig-Veda originated 1200 years ago before the Jesus (E.G. Rapson: Ancient India, Page 5)
4. According to DR. S. Radhakrishnan: Veda originated 15 century before the Jesus (Dr. S. Radhakrishnan: Indian Philosophy Vol. 1, Page 37)
——————————————————————————–
The difference between the scholars and dyananda sarwathi that their allegation had lot evidence from history and language science, but sarawathi and arya samaj never given single evidence abut their claim.
The entire historian believes Veda vyasa has lived between 12 and15 centuries before the Jesus. How Veda cans Veda originate 1310 million years ago? That the contradiction between the Reality and suspicious…
The knowledge existed from before. If you studied history and vedas more objectively, or vedic methods and ancient technology, you would have concluded the followings:
what they claim to exist around “12 to 14 centuries before Christ” are the first written vedic documents.
But the knowledge existed long before and were not transmitted the same way. But it’s up to people to believe in this, it’s not verifyable. But you can’t say that vedic knowledge started at this time because the most ancient written document found was dated at that time, just like you can’t say it existed from before. It’s not verifyable.
The date is not important.
The knowledge is.
And from that standpoint, with use of my rationnality, I rejected Quran, Bible etc. Vedas is the absolute knowledge. Then again, it’s your work to find it out, by use of rationnality etc. It’s not an obligation. If you chose Quran the same way, then no problem. But don’t despise the ones who didn’t, don’t hurt those who didn’t, and be tolerent by accepting that other truths than yours are possible. Because it’s not verifyable. Your Allah is not verifyable. My Ishwar neither.
Just don’t spread falsehood, and be tolerent.
1 chathur yuga is 4320000 years, manu is the ruler of chathuryuga a manu’s life ruling period is 71 chathuryuga some says its 12000 years in one chathur yuga, now its the kaliyuga of 27th chathuryuga of 7th manu . vedas was originated from brahma aaaand if you calculated the years mentioned in the puranas you can find the age of the vedas
Is muhammed a robber.ancient jewish historians says that he is(was) robber.
Concerning Idol worshipping etc, I personnaly pray those devatas like Shiva, but not without understandings. I don’t pray for good kharma. I mean, it’s my duty to pray yes, but I’m not praying to gain something from the entity/devata Shiva.
Sometimes I pray Hanuman to gain courage etc, but all my prayers are in the absolute towards Ishwar. Focusing on a form, such as a devatas, helps my mind to pray. Without this, it’s hard to pray a formless being. It is possible, but focusing on a form which represents aspects of this Ishwar is a great help when you don’t have sufficiant knowledge, inspiration, focus etc.
Focusing on devatas etc (which I consider embodiments of aspects of Ishwar) helps a lot, for meditation and more.
When you have the knowledge of what is Ishwar, when you’ve done the discrimating work, there’s no problem with idol worship, as long as you understand Truth, as long as you understand prayers. But if we were to say idol worship and prayers are different things, then what I’m saying has no big sense, lol.
But whatever, what I’m saying is that depending on your understandings, how you see consider things, there’s nothing bad with idol worshipping.
Hari Om
Agniveerji please explain Tawamasi, ayanatma brah brahma, Aham Brahmasmi
Agniveerji please explain Tawamasi, ayanatma brahma, Aham Brahmasmi
@ Vibiesh,
.
I have very limited knowledge – but I’d like to share. Other experts & knowledgeable members or Agniveer can correct me.
.
Aham Brahmasmi Tat Tvam Asi
.
This means, I am the Divine-force & so are you.
.
It’s meant to say that the divine-life-force that makes me what I am is the same force that makes you what you are. The distinction or difference that we see – like you, me, your name, my name, your property, my property are transient – they’re temporary. Both you & I and every other entity in this entire “prapancham” (Universe) are one & the same.
.
MN
God donot have an image, but since God is present in everything it can be considered as its image, thus God is both with form and Formless
Agniveerji mentioned God can’t be both with form and formless I think this statement id wrong
God is both with form and formless,the form is not God and God is not without Form,How?Do you believe God is complete or Absolute?If God and This world is different how can he be complete?So God should be Omnipresent to be complete or Absolute,and as God is present everywhere, everything can be considered as his image,but God is not that image and God is not without an image
yea! viiesh …
we shall see god equally in mountains, trees , rivers and other wonders of the nature as we see him in idols.
so idols do not contain more god than contained in the mountain.
to say that god does not have a form means he cannot be painted on a screen or as a idol.
@vibiesh
Find your answer here for questions like
http://aryabhajans.com/questions-and-vedic-answers/quest-%E2%80%93-vedic-answer-chapter-6/
Quest # 108: Does God incarnate? Or can He incarnate Himself (take Avatar)?
Quest # 109: God is one and never incarnates! Any proof? But the Geeta and the Ramayana says, “God incarnates Himself” (Geeta 4.7). Can you explain?
Quest # 110: God is formless then how to meditate on Him? Should one have an idol or some statue for concentration?
Quest # 111: God is Formless, then how to visualise Him?
Quest # 112: Why is God Formless and invisible to all?
Agniveerji,
Regarding 33 crore (koti) Gods .Koti means part ( not ten million) and here 33 parts devaas (people with divine qualities) 33 parts asuraas ( people with demonic qualities) and 33 parts maanavas ( people with ordinary human qualities)- it is just like we say 1/3 of the human beings have divine, demonic and ordinary human qualities each. Please clarify if there is any mistake.
Samvadsarasya prathimayam thva raathryupasathe prajasuveeram krithva viswamayurvyashunavath prajapathyam (Thaithareeya Samhitha – Kandam 5 Prashnam 7 Anuvakam 2 Panjadhi 1)
Swaroopam Prathimam vishno prasannavadhaneshananm thamarchayetham pranayeetham yajetham vichidhayed(Thaithareeya Samhitha Kandam 4 Prashnam 3)
Adhoyaddharum pravathesindoo raparee apavrusham thadharabaswa (Rig samhitha Astakam 7 Vargam 15)
Ehyashmana mathista ashmabavathuthee thanum (Adharvaveda kandam 1 kalpam 2 dwani 3)
Yavandhooshmanosyam pritvivyam prathistasu prathistam yavanda pamsamvo bhumesangyaa thapadeva mayaya (Kanvasamhitha kandam 1 chapter 3 anuvakam 6)
Purushamatrena vimimithe (Thaithareeya samhitha 5-2-5)
These slokas says about Idol Worship.A scholar said these are slokas which shows Idol Worship in Vedas.Can you explain?
नोट : ध्यान दें इस लेख में इश्वर से हमारा अभिप्राय परमात्मा या परब्रह्म से है ना की ‘देवता’ से | ‘ देवता ‘ एक अलग संज्ञा है जो की कई बार अज्ञानपूर्वक परब्रह्म के लिए इस्तेमाल कर ली जाती है |
जबकि ईश्वर भी एक ‘देवता’ है, लेकिन किसी भी इकाई – जीवित या निर्जीव – जो कि हमें मदद करता/करती है या हमारे लिए उपयोगी है उसे ‘देवता’ कहा जाता है| लेकिन इसका मतलब यह नहीं हर इकाई ईश्वर है और उसकी पूजा की जानी चाहिए | भ्रम से बचने के लिए, हम इस लेख में ‘ईश्वर’ शब्द का उपयोग करेंगे |
वो परब्रह्म जो निस्वार्थता का प्रतिनिधित्व करता है, पूरे ब्रह्मांड को नियंत्रित करता है, हर जगह मौजूद है और सभी देवताओं का देवता है, वो ही इकलोता आनंद का स्रोत है. जो उसे नहीं समझता वह दुख में डूबे और जो उसे जान लेते हैं अपार आनंद को प्राप्त करते हैं | (ऋग्वेद 1.164.39)
प्रश्न : वेद में कितने ईश्वर हैं ? हमने तो सुना है की वेदों में ईश्वर की बड़ी संख्या बताई है ?
उत्तर : आपने गलत स्रोतों से सुना है. वेदों में स्पष्ट रूप से निर्दिष्ट है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है. और वेदों में कोई एक भी मंत्र नहीं है कि जिस से एक से अधिक इश्वर होने की व्याख्या की जा सकती हो |
केवल यही नहीं, वेद ने किसी भी ‘परी’ या ‘पैगंबर’ या ‘अवतार’ जो आपके और ईश्वर के बीच में एक एजेंट का कार्य करे , ऐसे किसी के अस्तित्व को नकार दिया है |
अर्थात एक सादृश्य देने के लिए:
वेदों के ईश्वर = ईसाई धर्म में परमात्मा में से (ट्रिनिटी की अवधारणा) और ( यीशु को आत्मसमर्पण करने की आवश्यकता ) को निकल दीजिये |
वेदों के ईश्वर = इस्लाम के अल्लाह में से (मुहम्मद अंतिम पैगंबर के रूप में स्वीकार करने की आवश्यकता) को निकल दीजिये |
दूसरे शब्दों में, अगर कोई ‘शाहादा’ के पहले भाग को कहता है की : ला इलाहा illallâh (एक और केवल एक अल्लाह के अलावा कोई अन्य परमेश्वर नहीं है) लेकिन दुसरे हिस्से को नकार दे मतलब , मुहम्मदुरर्सुल्लाह (मुहम्मद उसके दूत है) को ना माने , तो वो वैदिक इश्वर की अवधारणा के करीब है |
hindi translation of this article!! ………
may be it is of some use!!
नोट : ध्यान दें इस लेख में इश्वर से हमारा अभिप्राय परमात्मा या परब्रह्म से है ना की ‘देवता’ से | ‘ देवता ‘ एक अलग संज्ञा है जो की कई बार अज्ञानपूर्वक परब्रह्म के लिए इस्तेमाल कर ली जाती है |
जबकि ईश्वर भी एक ‘देवता’ है, लेकिन किसी भी इकाई – जीवित या निर्जीव – जो कि हमें मदद करता/करती है या हमारे लिए उपयोगी है उसे ‘देवता’ कहा जाता है| लेकिन इसका मतलब यह नहीं हर इकाई ईश्वर है और उसकी पूजा की जानी चाहिए | भ्रम से बचने के लिए, हम इस लेख में ‘ईश्वर’ शब्द का उपयोग करेंगे |
वो परब्रह्म जो निस्वार्थता का प्रतिनिधित्व करता है, पूरे ब्रह्मांड को नियंत्रित करता है, हर जगह मौजूद है और सभी देवताओं का देवता है, वो ही इकलोता आनंद का स्रोत है. जो उसे नहीं समझता वह दुख में डूबे और जो उसे जान लेते हैं अपार आनंद को प्राप्त करते हैं | (ऋग्वेद 1.164.39)
प्रश्न : वेद में कितने ईश्वर हैं ? हमने तो सुना है की वेदों में ईश्वर की बड़ी संख्या बताई है ?
उत्तर : आपने गलत स्रोतों से सुना है. वेदों में स्पष्ट रूप से निर्दिष्ट है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है. और वेदों में कोई एक भी मंत्र नहीं है कि जिस से एक से अधिक इश्वर होने की व्याख्या की जा सकती हो |
केवल यही नहीं, वेद ने किसी भी ‘परी’ या ‘पैगंबर’ या ‘अवतार’ जो आपके और ईश्वर के बीच में एक एजेंट का कार्य करे , ऐसे किसी के अस्तित्व को नकार दिया है |
अर्थात एक सादृश्य देने के लिए:
वेदों के ईश्वर = ईसाई धर्म में परमात्मा में से (ट्रिनिटी की अवधारणा) और ( यीशु को आत्मसमर्पण करने की आवश्यकता ) को निकल दीजिये |
वेदों के ईश्वर = इस्लाम के अल्लाह में से (मुहम्मद अंतिम पैगंबर के रूप में स्वीकार करने की आवश्यकता) को निकल दीजिये |
दूसरे शब्दों में, अगर कोई ‘शाहादा’ के पहले भाग को कहता है की : ला इलाहा illallâh (एक और केवल एक अल्लाह के अलावा कोई अन्य परमेश्वर नहीं है) लेकिन दुसरे हिस्से को नकार दे मतलब , मुहम्मदुरर्सुल्लाह (मुहम्मद उसके दूत है) को ना माने , तो वो वैदिक इश्वर की अवधारणा के करीब है |
इस्लाम में,अलाह के अलावा किसी और को भी पूजने योग्य समझना या पूजना सबसे बड़ा पाप है अथवा शिर्क है . यदि आप इस अवधारणा को और आगे ले जाएँ और अल्लाह से अलग मुहम्मद या गेब्रियल को भी याद करने से मना करें ,तो वेद की नज़र में आप शिर्क से ही बच रहे है .
प्रश्न: विभिन्न देवताओं जो की वेदों में वर्णित हैं उनके बारे में क्या?और वो ३३ करोड़ देवताओं का क्या ?
उत्तर :
1. जैसा कि पहले उल्लेख किया है, देवता शब्द का उन इकाइयों को संदर्भित करता है जो कि हमारे लिए उपयोगी होते हैं | लेकिन वेदों में यह कहीं नहीं वर्णित है कि हमें इनकी पूजा करनी चाहिए| हाँ , बेशक, ईश्वर देवता या देव है और इसलिए ‘महादेव’ कहा जाता है. वह अकेले पूजा जाता है या पूजने योग्य है |
2. वेदों ३३ करोड़ देवताओं नहीं अपितु के 33 प्रकार(संस्कृत में कोटि) के देवताओं की बात करते हैं . वे शतपथ-ब्राह्मण में बहुत स्पष्ट रूप से व्याख्या की हुई है . ये इस प्रकार हैं -
८ वासु हैं (पृथ्वी, जल, अग्नि, वायु, आकाश, चंद्रमा, सूर्य / सितारे और ग्रह) जो की ब्रह्माण्ड के वो घटक है जहां हम रहते हैं|
१० जीवन शक्तिया या प्राण (प्राण, अपान, व्यान , उदान , समान , नाग, कुर्म्म , कुकल , देवदत्त,धनञ्जय ) और १ आत्मा ये ग्यारह रूद्र कहते हैं |
१२ आदित्य या साल के महीने |
१ विद्युत या विद्युत चुम्बकीय शक्ति जो कि हमारे लिए जबरदस्त उपयोग की है |
१ यज्ञ या मनुष्यों द्वारा किया निस्वार्थ ,परोपकारी कर्मों |
इन ३३ देवताओं के अधिपति महादेव या ईश्वर ,शतपथ-ब्राह्मण के चौहदवें कांड के अनुसार एक अकेला ही पूजने योग्य है |
३३ देवताओं की अवधारणा अपने आप में एक महान अनुसंधान आधारित विषय है और उचित समझने के लिए गहराई से अध्ययन में की आवश्यकता है. हालांकि, यह सभी वैदिक ग्रंथों में बहुत ही स्पष्ट किया गया है कि वे ईश्वर नहीं हैं और इसलिए उनकी पूजा नहीं की जानी चाहिए |
3. ईश्वर गुणों की भारी संख्या है. अज्ञानी लोगों गलत तरीके से ईश्वर के इन गुणों को अलग अलग कई इश्वर मान लेते हैं ,जैसे आज के अखबार में दो सुर्खियाँ थी , एक ने डॉ. सिंह लिखा था और दूसरी में मनमोहन जी , अब इसका मतलब यह नहीं भारत के दो प्रधानमंत्री है!
4. इस तरह के भ्रम को दूर करने के लिए, वेदों में कई मंत्र है जो कि स्पष्ट रूप से कहते है की सिर्फ और सिर्फ एक…
4. इस तरह के भ्रम को दूर करने के लिए, वेदों में कई मंत्र है जो कि स्पष्ट रूप से कहते है की सिर्फ और सिर्फ एक इश्वर है बिना किसी भी सहायक, एजेंट या नबी के जो की हमारे और उसके बीच संपर्क बनाए .
उदाहरण के लिए :
40.1 यजुर्वेद:
यह पूरी दुनिया के इश्वर के ही भीतर स्थित है और एक और केवल एक ईश्वर द्वारा प्रबंधित है . कभी भी अन्याय करने का सहस ना करना और ना ही अन्यायपूर्ण साधनों के माध्यम से धन पाने की इच्छा करना | इसके बजाय सही पथ का अनुसरण करें और उसका(परमात्मा का ) आनंद लें. आखिर वो अकेले ही सभी आनंदों का स्रोत है!
10.48.1 ऋग्वेद:
वो ईश्वर अकेला ही सर्वव्यापी है और पूरे ब्रह्मांड का प्रबंधक है. वह अकेला विजय प्रदान करता है और दुनिया का शाश्वत कारण है. सभी आत्माओं को केवल उसी की और देखना चाहिए उस प्रकार से जैसे बच्चे अपने पिता को देखते है . वह अकेला ही है जो हमें जीवन आधार और आनंद के प्रदान करता है|
10.48.5 ऋग्वेद
ईश्वर पूरी दुनिया को प्रकाशित करता है | वह अपराजित और अमर है| वह दुनिया के निर्माता है| सभी आत्माओं को उस से ज्ञान की मांग कर और अनुसरण कर के उस से आनंद प्राप्त करना चाहिए. उन्हें ईश्वर की मित्रता से कभी दूर नहीं रहना चाहिए|
10.49.1 ऋग्वेद
ईश्वर अकेला ही सत्य चाहने वालों के लिए सच्चा ज्ञान प्रदान करता है. वह अकेले ही ज्ञान की दायक है और महान कार्यों में भले लोगों को प्रेरित करके आनंद प्राप्त करवाता है . वह अकेला ही दुनिया का निर्माता और प्रबंधक है. इसलिए उस एक और केवल एक ईश्वर को छोड़कर किसी और की कभी पूजा नहीं करनी चाहिए .
13.4 यजुर्वेद
वह एक और केवल एक निर्माता और पूरी दुनिया का प्रबंधक है. वह अकेले पृथ्वी, आकाश और अन्य खगोलीय पिंड को बनता है| वह स्वयं परमानंद है ! वह अकेला ही हमारे द्वारा पूजा करने योग्य है |
13.4.16-21 अथर्ववेद
वह न तो दो है और न ही तीन, और न ही चार, और न ही पाँच, और न ही छह, और न ही सात, और न ही आठ, ना ही नौ, और न ही दस है. पर इसके विपरीत वह केवल एक है | एक और केवल एक उसके अलावा कोई ईश्वर नहीं है| सभी देवता उसके भीतर रहते हैं और उसके द्वारा नियंत्रित हैं| तो वह अकेला, पूजा जाना चाहिए कोई भी और नहीं |
10.7.38 अथर्ववेद
केवल एक ईश्वर ही सबसे बडा और पूजा किये जाने लायक है. वह सभी ज्ञान और गतिविधियों का स्रोत है…
10.7.38 अथर्ववेद
केवल एक ईश्वर ही सबसे बडा और पूजा किये जाने लायक है. वह सभी ज्ञान और गतिविधियों का स्रोत है |
32.11 यजुर्वेद
ईश्वर ब्रह्मांड में प्रत्येक बिंदु पर रहता है. कोई भी स्थान उस से रहित नहीं है. वह आत्मनिर्भर है और उसे अपने कर्तव्यों का पालन करने के लिए किसी भी एजेंट, परी, नबी या अवतार की मदद लेने की जरूरत नहीं है | जो आत्मा इस एक और केवल एक ईश्वर को प्राप्त कर लेता है वो बिना शर्त परम आनंद या मोक्ष को प्राप्त करने में सक्षम है |
वेदों में असंख्य ऐसे मंत्र है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है और हमें उसकी पूजा करने के लिए सीधे निर्देश हैं बिना अन्य किसी – अवतार, पैगंबर, एन्जिल या एजेंट का आवाहन किये |
प्रश्न: आप ईश्वर के अस्तित्व को कैसे स्थापित करते हैं ?
उत्तर : प्रत्यक्ष और अप्रत्यक्ष रूप से प्रमाण के माध्यम से.
प्रश्न : लेकिन ईश्वर का प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण संभव नहीं है. तो आप कैसे ईश्वर की स्थापना करते है ?
उत्तर:
1. साक्ष्य मतलब इंद्रियों से प्राप्त उत्तेजनाओं के माध्यम से निर्धारित ज्ञान | लेकिन ध्यान दें कि इंद्रियों गुण की पहचान करती है लेकिन इन गुणों के कारण की नहीं |
उदाहरण के लिए, जब आप इस लेख पढ़ा, तो आप ‘अग्निवीर’ के अस्तित्व को नहीं जान रहे , लेकिन केवल कुछ छवियां आपकी स्क्रीन पर आ रही है कि जिसकी आप सार्थक ज्ञान में व्याख्या करते हैं . और फिर आप ये निष्कर्ष निकलते है कि इस लेख कोई लेखक अवश्य है और दावा करते हैं की आप के पास ‘ अग्निवीर’ के अस्तित्व का प्रमाण है | तो यह ‘अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत’ भले ही हो पर यह ‘प्रत्यक्ष’ प्रकट होता है|
इसी प्रकार, इस पूरी सृष्टि रचना जिसका हम इंद्रियों के माध्यम से निरीक्षण कर ग्रहण करते हैं वो ईश्वर के अस्तित्व का प्रमाण बनती है |
2. जब आप एक इकाई के लिए एक संवेदी इन्द्रिय को सीधे जोड़ लेते हैं, तो आप ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ का दावा करते है. उदाहरण के लिए जब आप एक आम खाने लगते है तो आप जीभ में जो मिठास आती है उसकी संगती उस आम के साथ लगते है जो की आप खा रहे हैं | महत्वपूर्ण बात यह है कि आप केवलये प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण केवल उसी अंग के साथ लगा सकते है जिस से आपने उसे महसूस किया था |जैसे :
इस प्रकार पिछले उदाहरण में, आप ‘कान’ से नहीं कर सकते लेकिन केवल ‘जीभ’ या ‘नाक’ या ‘आँखों’ के माध्यम से ही आम का…
इस प्रकार पिछले उदाहरण में, आप ‘कान’ से नहीं कर सकते लेकिन केवल ‘जीभ’ या ‘नाक’ या ‘आँखों’ के माध्यम से ही आम का ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ कर सकते हैं |
वास्तविकता में इसके अलावा यह भी ‘अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत’ है हालांकि हम सादगी के लिए इसे ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ कहते हैं .
अब जब ईश्वर सबसे सूक्ष्म मौजूदा इकाई है, यह असंभव है आंखों, नाक, जीभ, त्वचा, या कान की तरह मोटे इंद्रियों के माध्यम से ईश्वर के ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ हो सके | उदाहरण के लिए हम सब -अटॉमिक कणों को सबसे शक्तिशाली सूक्ष्मदर्शी के माध्यम से भी नहीं देख सकते , हम अल्ट्रासोनिक ध्वनि नहीं सुन सकते और हम प्रत्येक अणु के स्पर्श को भी महसूस नहीं कर सकते हैं|
दूसरे शब्दों में, यह असंभव है इन मोटे और कमजोर इंद्रियों के माध्यम से इश्वर को प्रामाणित किया जा सके जैसे कानों से आम को प्रमाणित नहीं कर सकते या subatomic कणों को आँखों के माध्यम से महसूस नहीं कर सकते हैं |
3. ‘मन’ ही एक अंग है कि जिस से ईश्वर को समझ सकते हैं | जब मन पूरी तरह से नियंत्रित है और अनैच्छिक शोर (हर समय हजारो विचारों के आने की तरह) से रहित हो और ईश्वर के गुणों के बारे में पर्याप्त ज्ञान , अध्ययन और अभ्यास के माध्यम से प्राप्त किया गया हो , तब ईश्वर को भी ‘मन’ के माध्यम से प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाणित किया जा सकता है जैसे एक आम का अपने स्वाद के माध्यम से प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण होता है |
यही इस जीवन का लक्ष्य है और एक योगी मन पर नियंत्रण के सभी विभिन्न तरीकों जैसे कि अहिंसा, सत्य , करुणा, सभी के लिए आनंद मांगना ,उच्च नैतिक चरित्र, अन्याय के खिलाफ लड़ने , लोगों में एकता , आदि के माध्यम से करने का प्रयास करता है |
4.एक तरह से हमें हमारे जीवन में ईश्वर के हर रोज प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण के संकेत मिलते है. जब हम चोरी या इसी तरह के किसी भी गलत कार्य में लिप्त होने की कोशिश करते है जैसे धोखाधड़ी, क्रूरता तो हमें एक हलकी सी .. भय, शर्म या शक आदि के रूप में ‘भीतर की आवाज’ सुनाई देती है और, जब हम दूसरों की मदद करने, एक बच्चे आशीर्वाद देने आदि की तरह महान कामों में लिप्त होते हैं तो हमें फिर से एक निर्भयता ,संतुष्टि, उत्साह और आनंद की भावना के रूप में ‘भीतर की आवाज’,
सुनती है |
‘यह भीतर की आवाज’ ईश्वर से है. अक्सर हम यह आसपास की मूर्ख प्रवृत्तियों के कारण ,जोर से…
‘यह भीतर की आवाज’ ईश्वर से है. अक्सर हम यह आसपास की मूर्ख प्रवृत्तियों के कारण ,जोर से डीजे संगीत के माध्यम से इसे चुप करने करने की कोशिश करते रहते हैं . लेकिन फिर भी हम सब कई बार इस ‘भीतर की आवाज’ को अब तब ऊँची होती सुनते रहते है, जब आसपास की चीजें अपेक्षाकृत चुप होती है|
5.और जब आत्मा मानसिक गड़बड़ी से शुद्ध और डीजे क्लब आदि शोर से दूर हो जाती है,तो यह ईश्वर का सीधे प्रत्यक्ष सबूत करने में सक्षम है.
इसलिए दोनों प्रत्यक्ष और अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत के माध्यम से, ईश्वर स्पष्ट रूप से स्थापित है, जैसे की अन्य पदार्थ जो की हमारे द्वारा देखे जाते हैं |.
क्यू: कहाँ रहते हैं ईश्वर करता है?
एक:
1. ईश्वर सर्वव्यापी है और इसलिए हर जगह रहता है. अगर ईश्वर कुछ विशेष सिंहासन या कुछ विशेष आकाश की भांति एक विशेष जगह पर रह रहा हो ,तो वह सर्वज्ञ , सर्वशक्तिमान ,सभी का प्रबंधक,सभी का नाशक और निर्माता नहीं हो सकता था. आप जहाँ आप मौजूद नहीं हैं उस जगह पर कोई कार्य या कार्रवाई नहीं कर सकते |
2.यदि आप का कहना है कि ईश्वर एक ही स्थान से दुनिया प्रबंधन कर सकता है जैसे सूरज दूर से पृथ्वी को रौशनी देता है या जैसे रिमोट कंट्रोल के माध्यम से टीवी देखा जाता है , तो यह दोषपूर्ण तर्क है| क्योंकि सूरज , पृथ्वी को रोशन करने के लिए सक्षम है या हम रिमोट कंट्रोल के माध्यम से टीवी संचालित करने में सक्षम है इसका कारण केवल विकिरण तरंगे है जो कि अंतरिम अंतरिक्ष के माध्यम से यात्रा कर के सूरज से धरती तक, या रेमोते सर टीवी तक पहुंचती हैं | सिर्फ इसलिए कि हम उन्हें देखने में असमर्थ हैं तो हम इसे रिमोट कंट्रोल कहते हैं, वास्तविकता में वहाँ एक रिमोट कंट्रोल की तरह कुछ भी नहीं है | इस प्रकार सत्य तथ्य यह है कि ईश्वर के कुछ का प्रबंधन करने में सक्षम होने का मतलब है कि यह वह वहाँ मौजूद है |
3.इसके अलावा, अगर ईश्वर सर्वशक्तिमान है, तो वह डर कर खुद को किसी एक छोटे से स्थान पर सीमित क्यों कर के रखेगा ? यह बात ईश्वर को सीमित बनाती है. ईसाइयों का कहना है भगवान् चौथे आकाश और मुसलमानों का कहना है कि अल्लाह सातवें आसमान पर है. और उनके अनुयायी अपने को सही साबित करने के लिए एक दूसरे से लड़ते रहते हैं | क्या इसका कारण यह है कि भगवान और अल्लाह ने अलग अलग आसमान में रहने का फैसला किया है ताकि वो भी आपस में उनके अनुयायियों…
क्या इसका कारण यह है कि भगवान और अल्लाह ने अलग अलग आसमान में रहने का फैसला किया है ताकि वो भी आपस में उनके अनुयायियों की तरह लड़ना ना शुरू करदें ?
हकीकत में ये सब बातें बचकाना हैं. जब ईश्वर सर्वशक्तिमान है और पूरे ब्रह्मांड उसके नियंत्रण में है , तो ऐसा कोई कारण नहीं है जिसके लिए वह खुद को ब्रह्मांड के एक छोटे से हिस्से में सीमित कर के रखेगा . और अगर ऐसा है तो फिर उसे सर्वशक्तिमान नहीं कहा जा सकता |
क्यू: क्या इसका यह मतलब है कि ईश्वर शराब, मूत्र, मलमूत्र की तरह गंदे चीज़ों में भी है?
एक:
1. संपूर्ण सृष्टि ईश्वर के भीतर है. अब क्योंकि ईश्वर इन चीजों के बाहर भी है, लेकिन कोई भी चीज़ ईश्वर के बाहर मौजूद नहीं है. तो दुनिया में सब चीज़ें ईश्वर द्वारा व्याप्त हैं. एक सादृश्य दें तो , हम ईश्वर के भीतर उसी तरह से है जैसे पानी के टब के भीतर कपड़े रहता हैं. कपडे के भीतर, बाहर और आसपास पानी होता है. कपड़े का कोई भी भाग ऐसा नहीं है जो पानी से गीला नहीं है, लेकिन उस कपडे से परे भी डोर दूर तक पानी है .
2. कुछ भी हमारे लिए गंदा या अच्चा उसके प्रति हमारे कर्तव्य पर निर्भर करता है . परमाणुओं का बना हुआ आम हमें खाने में स्वादिष्ट लगता है लेकिन जब वाही परमाणुओं बिखर कर अन्य रसायनों से मिलकर मलमूत्र आदि बन जाते है तो वो हमारे लिए गंदा हो जाता है | तो संक्षेप में कहें तो ये सब केवल प्रकृति के कणों के विभिन्न संयोजन हैं | चूंकि हम इस पृथ्वी पर एक मिशन पर है, तो हम उस मिशन के लिए हर चीज़ का विश्लेषण करते है और जो हमे चाहिए उसे स्वीकार और बाकियों को अस्वीकार कर देते हैं . हम जिसे अस्वीकार कर देते हैं वो हमारे लिए गंदा या कचरा है और जो हम स्वीकार करते हैं वह हमारे लिए अच्छा है. लेकिन भगवान के लिए, ऐसे कर्तव्य मौजूद नहीं है इसीलिए उसके लिए कुछ भी गंदा नहीं है . इसके विपरीत,इश्वर का कर्तव्य हमसे अलग है – हमे सही तरीके से परमानन्द प्राप्त करवाना ही परमात्मा का लक्ष्य है – और इसलिए उसके लिए इस पूरे सृजन में ऐसा कुछ भी नहीं है जो अछूत है.
3. यदि आप एक अन्य सादृश्य से देखो, ईश्वर एक उस पाखंडी सामाजिक कार्यकर्ता की तरह नहीं है जो अपने वातानुकूलित कार्यालय में तोह दूर दूर की योजना पसंद करते हैं लेकिन पास ही के मलिन बस्तियों में जाने से बचता है | इसके विपरीत, वह हमारे लाभ तथा सहायता के लिए…
इसके विपरीत, वह हमारे लाभ तथा सहायता के लिए सबसे गंदे स्थान पर भी सदा मौजूद है.
4. और चूँकि वह अकेला ही सम्पूर्ण है और बावजूद की वह हर जगह पर है और सब कुछ उसके भीतर है,लेकिन तब भी वह सब वस्तुओं से अलग है और भिन्न है……….
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———————–_कुछ व्यस्तताओं के कारण में अभी इस से आगे लेख का हिंदी में अनुवाद नहीं कर पाया हूँ , यदि ये इतना आंशिक अनुवाद किसी काम का हो तो, इसमें किसी भी प्रकार का बदलाव आदि करके आप इसका इस्तेमाल कर सकते हैं , धन्यवाद———————–
कृष्ण आर्य .
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either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo
either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo
either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo
@hyder
uttamas cintatam kuryat
prokta-kari tu madhyamah
adhamo ‘sraddhaya kuryad
akartoccharitam pituh
This is from Bhagawat Puran . Puran & Quran not authoritative text. They should be thrown out from house.
http://agniveer.com/2708/vedic-god/#comment-65043
Truth Seeker brother! I have found something to ponder upon. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=289758157743654&set=o.203068559758027&type=1&theater
Pls forward to as many Indians as you can.
Child marriage of daughters 5-6 years old was common due to the custom of dowry and to avoid scandals [Nand 17] [Basham 167-8] [Yadav 70] [Altekar 16] [Banerjee 70]. Hindu Law books prescribe that the best partner for a man in one-third his age. Thus a man 18 year old should marry a girl 6 years old! – “A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner.”[Manu IX.94] Narada states that some of the defects to be avoided in brides are if they already had a relationship with another man or have their minds set on another, they should not be selected [Sheth 67].
So my dear friends analyse and think who promotes paedophile.
Real face of Hinduism and their gods.
Brahmins always criticize, condemn and mock at other religions. Their criticism and mocking is unreasonable and unacceptable.
The Brahmins claim that Lord Rama is incarnated (came in human form) to study and understand the difficulties of mankind. Is it really necessary for a god to incarnate Himself?? Can he not understand the creation? Why should God become a donkey or a cockroach in order to understand the sufferings of these creatures?
Lord Rama
Lord Rama is the central character to the Epic RAMAYAN (whose author was Valmiki) Rama is the son of Dasharath, the king of Banaras . Dasharath had three wives, kaushalya, kaikeyi and Smitra besides several hundreds concubines.
According to the Ramayana, Rama spent most of his life trying to save his wife, Sita from the clutches of Ravan At the same time Rama was enjoying life to the full at every opportunity.
How Rama was Fooled by Sukrievan.
When god Rama was exiled to the forest together with his wife, sukrievan appeared as deer and fooled god Rama. Although Rama was a “god”, he was not able to see through Sukreivan’s disguise!
Beef Eating Rama
When God Rama was told to go to forest, he mournfully revealed to is mother: “if has been ordained that I have to lose the kingdom, forego the princely comforts and the tasty, MEAT DISHES. (Ayodha Kandam, 20, 26, 94th Chapters).
Rama’s Many Wives
Mr. C.R. Sreenivasa lyengar’s translation of Valmiki Ramayana says: ” Though Rama had married Sita to be the queen, he married many other wives for sexual pleasure in accordance with the royal customs. (Ayodha Kandam 8th Chapter, page 28). (The term “Rama’s wives” as been used in many places in Ramayan).
Rama’s Disrespect for his Father
Rama called his father ” A FOOL, AN IDIOT” (Ayodhya Kandam, 53rd Chapter).
Rama’s Contempt for Women and Low Castes
Rama disfigured and mutilated many women by cutting off her noses, breasts, ears etc., and tortured them (Soorpanaki, Ayomuki).
Rama said, “Women should not be trusted” and that “Secrets should not be confided to the wife” (Ayodhya kandam, Chapter 100).
What Leaders say about Lord Rama
“My Rama (god Rama) is not the Rama of Ramayana”. Mahatma Gandhi
“The Ramayana and Mahabaratha are nothing but another Arabian Nights Story” Jawaharlal Nehru
God Shiva, Lord Ganesh & Goddess Parvathi
According to Hinduism, god Shiva’s head is the source of the river Ganges and his head is also the place where the moon is located (if this was really a fact then why should America send astronaut Neil Armstrong 240,000 miles away to the moon)
According to Puranas, goddess Parvathi, wife of God Shiva, sought Shivas’s permission to have a baby When Shiva refused, Paravathi took dirt from her body and created Lord Ganesh. (The late E.V.R. Preiyar used to call this god a “bundle fo dirt”).
Later God Shiva mistakenly chopped off his own son’s head. How could a god make such a foolish mistake? Would such a god solve your problems or make them more complicated?
To rectify his error God Shiva severed the head of baby elephant and transplanted in onto his son who then become known as the Elephant headed god. His statues are usually found near river-sides where he is said to be looking for a bride resembling his mother! (There is a different version to this story which, for decency’s sake, cannot be printed here).
Pornography in Ramayana
Ramanaya also recounts the story of king Dasaratha who, in order to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagam) of sheep, cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies to the king. By this means, the king was able to have three sons-Ram, Lakshman and Bharat (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details on yagam, refer to the book “Gnana Surian”, published by the kudi Arasu Press.)
@hyder
According to the Valmiki Ramayana, Surpanakha (Sister of Ravan)
met the exiled Rama, the young Prince of Ayodhya, and was immediately smitten by his youthful good looks. Rama, however, spurned her advances, telling her that he was devoted to his wife, Sita, and that he would never take another wife.
(Through this story prophet Rama taught us lesson of to be monogamous. )
Rama then slyly suggested that she approach his younger brother, Lakshmana, with her proposition. Lakshmana reacted in a similar manner, deriding Surpanakha and telling her that she was not what he desired in a wife. Realizing eventually that the brothers were making fun of her, the humiliated and jealous Surpanakha attacked Sita but was thwarted by Lakshmana, who cut off her nose and sent her back to Lanka.
Surpanakha first reacted by going to her brother Khara who sent seven Rakshasa warriors to attack Rama, but were easily dispatched. Khara then attacked with soldiers including himself, who were all killed.
(Hyder learn some lesson from this great story)
@Hyder
_________god Shiva’s head is the source of the river Ganges and his head is also the place where the moon is located__________
If this is wrong, how can it be right
“Muhammad broke the moon into two”
“River was split into two for Moses”
______When Shiva refused, Paravathi took dirt from her body and created Lord Ganesh_________
If this is wrong, how can it be right
“Jesus was born to Virgin Mary without father”
_______Shiva severed the head of baby elephant and transplanted in onto his son________
If this is wrong, how can it be right
“Abraham killed a peacock, crow, cock and sparrow and kept their heads with him. Then he mixed their bodies and wings. Now when he called them, all the pieces went back and joined with each other to make these birds living again”
“During the battle of Tabuk, water started sprinkling from Muhammad’s fingers when Muslims ran out of water!”
_______Later God Shiva mistakenly chopped off his own son’s head. How could a god make such a foolish mistake___________
If this is wrong, how can it be right
“How can Allah do mistake creating of Shaitan”
I believe both Quran & Puran should be thrown out which have basis.
brother Truth Seeker!
Don’t use humble words. He will consider your humility as your weakness. You could have heard this in Ramayana: रावण के निकट हनुमान आए। रावण जानता था कि यह वही है जिन्होने उसकी सेना तहस नहस कर दी है और उसके बेटे “अक्षकुमार” को मार दिया है। फिर भी हनुमान की सादगी और वानर रुप देखकर उसने सोचा – यह तो डर गया। रावण के उस मूर्खतापूर्ण विचार का ही परिणाम था कि लंका भस्म हो गई। तुलसीदास ने कहा है – रावण सो भट डर्यो मुठिका के घाय को ! हनुमान ने ऐसा पलटवार किया कि उनका एक मुक्का ही रावण को कँपाने के लिए पर्याप्त था । वास्तव में उस रुप की आवश्यकता है। विनम्र बनकर ही रह गए तो यह रावण पूछ ही जलाता रहेगा। “लातो का भूत बातो से नही मानता” यह तो आपने पढा ही होगा। Either totally ignore them or challenge the core belief of Satanic cult Mohammedanism. Don’t worry – Nostradamus is with us: http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30510
I believe both Quran & Puran should be thrown out which have basis.
truncate the last 3 and first 2 words. Both Quran & Puran should be thrown out.
That’s it. Rather burn them. These 2 are biggest threat on religion.
@Truth Seeker & Satan,
Burn your vedas,manusmrithi upanishads which all give such messages.
@TS/Hyder/MOHAMMED = SATAN/Vinay/KB
All the miracles mentioned in Quran are true. If anybody doubts in miracles mentioned in Quran & Hadith will not be entitled to be Muslim. How can you disapprove them even science can not deny these miracles of Quran. This article of Satyagni is completely wrong & without any basis. I know Agniveer & Satyagni is same. Best for you remove this article.
http://satyagni.com/5050/miracles-of-islam/
@hyder
____________Burn your vedas________________
Books can be burned not Veda. Printed books are Ved Sahita not Veda. Veda is knowledge emanated from God and originated in the heart of four rishis. Veda knowledge is divine & Can not be burned or destroy by humans like Quran or Allah’s earlier revelations.
Slim Shaikh,
Thanks for telling the joke that Quranic miracles are full of science. Well, Please tell the science of these:
Moses stick converted to snake
Jews converted to apes
Mohammed’s favorite donkey flew into air
Tell what science has proven true NOT what Quran says. Let me tell you that agniveer / satyagni isn’t only one who says Quran is not science. The other scientific findings are (most notably by physicist R. Brahmachari):
answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm
answering-islam.org/Andy/fallacies.html
answering-islam.org/Responses/It-is-truth/index.htm
wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Science
wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Qur’an_Leads_the_Way_to_Science
wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam,_Science_and_the_Problems_at_Wikipedia
wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur’an
faithfreedom.org/Articles/Shafiya/science_vs_Islam.htm
islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Erroneous-Science-and-Contradictions-in-Quran.htm
islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/Scientific-Knowledge-Koran.htm
mostintolerantreligion.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/quranic-errors-and-contradictions/
danielpipes.org/comments/66635
IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM, REFUTE ALL OF THEM RATIONALLY.
@hyder
________manusmrithi upanishads which all give such messages._________
Why not burned Quran which give massage
1. Allah was sitting idly before this universe creation.
2. Allah created Shaitan to misguide the simple people.
3. It was Allah who propagated incest.
4. Allah was helpless enough that he could not protect earlier revelations.
5. Allah is suffering from desires, wishes & wants.
6. Allah needs postman to deliver its massage like human world.
@GOD IS GREAT/TS/Vinay/Nikhil/All kaffirs/Bhramit aka Mohamad=Satan
Sale, haramiyo, I know very well you will not believe in Quran. This saying fits on you (“Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante.”)”People who do not give in to talks, do understand only with kicks. Just wait for 2 or 3 years more after establishment of Islamic law here, I will teach you proper lesson to demean Allah. I can understand Islamic Gajis Gori, Gajni, Abdali, Aurgangjeb would have forced by you to use sword to punish the kaffirs like you. How can you object on the Quran teaching which is massage from Allah? You people looks like donkey altogether.
@Bhramit aka Mohamad=Satan
Sale if you have guts give me your address, I will beat you in your own house. Dont you have any manner? You are demeaning the prophet (PBUH).
MOHAMMED IS PROPHET OF SATAN.
I AGREE. UNIVERSE AGREES. WHICH JOKER TOLD YOU I AM BHRAMIT? ANYWAYS, YOU ARE A PIG DEVOID OF TRUTH. LEAVE IT, YOU ARE EMOTIONAL JOKER. IF YOU HAD GUTS, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPLAIN TRUTH RATIONALLY. LEAVE IT, IF A MUSLIM REALLY KNOWS THE MEANING OF RATIONALITY, HE WOULD QUIT ISLAM FIRST OF ALL. SINCE YOU ARE INFINITELY FAILED IN KINDERGARTEN EXAMINATIONS (CLEAR FROM YOUR SPEECH). YOUR SUCH MENTALITY IS OBVIOUS. ANYWAYS, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN FURTHER REPLYING YOU SINCE IT IS SAME AS PUTTING A DEAD PERSON TO LIFE.
YOU ARE BIGGEST KAFFIR AS YOU ARE FOLLOWER OF THAT ALLAH WHO MADE SATAN AND SATAN REFUSED TO BOW BEFORE HUMANS. YOUR BEHAVIOUR MATCHES WITH SATAN. IN MANY CASES, YOU BEAT EVEN THAT POOR SATAN. (FOR THE REASON, YOUR ALLAH IS WITNESS TO THIS)
NOW, I CHANGE: SLIM SHAIKH = SATAN ^ INFINITY.
@MOHAMMED = SATAN
You have many wrong notions regarding Islam & Prophet. It was prophet (PBUH) who taught us how to keep child wife. How to maintain equality among wives. He gave the regard to slaves woman as his wife. How to secure chastity of women by veiling.
slim shaikh
so you proved yourself muslims are nothing but terrorists,rapists,marauders,scoundrels,intolerants,killers and cultist
good you proved islam is religion of terror and cult.
you muslims are only competent to ride donkeys and camels.
@Prithvi
_________so you proved yourself muslims are nothing but terrorists,rapists,marauders,scoundrels,intolerants,killers and cultist
good you proved Islam is religion of terror and cult.__________
Where I said this?
terrorists: Fighting for true religion is treated as Jehad not terrorism. Jehadi kill only those who are against Islam & Quran.
rapists: Prophet and his companion given highest respect to the women made slaves in wars. They all treated as wives not slaves. Prophet taken responsibility for their lives & health.
Slim Shaikh
“terrorists: Fighting for true religion is treated as Jehad not terrorism. Jehadi kill only those who are against Islam & Quran”————————
you are indicating that muslims will kill anybody who descerates quran and islam ,then how Islam is peaceful and tolerant what a myth,so there has been large number of killings ,bombings ,violence in the name of allah in the world and you say this is peace and tolerant, but muslims can easily criticisze other religions.
“prophet married slave women for their better live and health”——————–
by killing their husbands ,brothers,fathers prophet married the slave women, why cannot he make their sisters ,daughters arranged the marriage with others, why prophet refused his remarriage for his wives after his death for better life and health.Prophet never banned slavery but make free people his slaves
I can understand the problem with the Islam.There are false laws said in the Quran.The Muslims have considered those words to be right.But they are illogical.So these Muslims consider illogical facts to be a part of religion.That’s why they are fighting.Yea.If Quran were right then there had been no problem with the so-called Jihadis.But as Quran is wrong the Jihad has become terrorism.
Muslims cannot concentrate while debating.They always run away when it is proved that Quran is illogical.They cannot say that there are free to dbate without any discrimination.They are not with their free mind.They think what the Quran says is right.If anyone can prove Satyarth Praksh to be false and Vedas also then Arya Samaj is ready to accept these views.But like us these Muslims can not do.These would always say”My Quran is right” even if their Quran is false.
My advise to the Muslims is that they should be free of discrimiunation.They should not be like politicians who consider OBCs to be low and Generals to be higher.This kind of discrimination should not be there.But Muslims always come with this argue that theri Quran is right.They do not want to hear”Quran is wrong”.They will kill anyone who says so.
Vinay jee, you are not getting the point. Read Quran 15.9 which says Quran is true book. (The point which is proven wrong by at least 500 scholars worldwide but Muslims would never understand because of thier blind knowledge). Such stupid verses (obviously added by Satan) make Muslims follow this wretched book (A name given not by me but by 50 great thinkers worldwide) blindly and that is responsible for misguidance being propagated in Islam.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm
Now, coming to a simple statistics;;;
People who were born Muslims but left Islam in 2010 – 2011: 6 million in Africa; 3 million in Egypt & 1 million in UK.
Total converts to other religions from Islam in 2010 – 2011: 31 million.
Since following blind orders of Quran, apostasy is illegal and hence these poor people keep thier apostasy a secret.
10 Avatars in Vedas and Puranas contradicting one another. The Hindu scholars from Northern India believe as under:
MATSYA, KHOORMA, VARAHA, VAMANA, PARASURAMAN, NARASIMHAM, RAMA, KRISHNA, BUDDHA AND KALI. However, the Hindu scholars from South they do not consider Buddha as a Hindu Avatar as he never believed in the existence of an ALMIGHTY GOD only believed in NIRVANA. So they believe as under pertaining to 10 Avatars.
MATSYA, KHOORMA, VARAHA, VAMANA, PARASURAMAN, NARASIMHAM, RAMA, BALARAMAN, KRISHNA, AND KALI.
Namaste samuel
while pointing fingers at the Hindus you , make sure that you can defend a child with controversial parenthood as God .If any of the Hindu idiosyncrasies is less controversial than that , you may have a dig at them.
so what’s your defense ?
@ Indian Agnostic,
I will answer you if my question is answered.
@samuel
First of all you should know before writing you stuff here that 10 or 24 God’s Incarnation (Avtar) mentioned in Puran not in Veda. Purans are fraud text like Bibal & Quran. God’s Incarnation is Against Veda. Have not you read Article before posting here. If not go through this article
“God of Vedas and Hinduism”
http://agniveer.com/2728/god-vedas-hinduism/
@samuel:
However, the Hindu scholars from South they do not consider Buddha as a Hindu Avatar as he never believed in the existence of an ALMIGHTY GOD only believed in NIRVANA.
Wrong. Madhva was a Kannadiga. Madhva and his followers, some even to this day, explain the Buddhist concept of Shunyata or Buddha nature along with Brahman. There may be those who do not consider Buddha an avatar, but do keep in mind that the teachings of Buddha were not nihilism. Buddha advised his followers to focus more on this world more than questions of afterlife about which he was agnostic. His followers [Nagarjuna, Dignaga, Dharmakriti, and others] took Buddha’s words to an extreme by denying the self, etc. This is what led to a large body of dialectics between Buddhists and Hindu philosophers. Buddha’s teachings on their own do not deny Brahman.
@कालभैरव
अरे तू क्या आलतू फालतू लिखता रहता है मेरी समझ में तो कुछ आता नहीं है! पता नहीं कोई तेरे कमेन्ट पढ़ता भी है या नहीं!
@Shaikh:
अरे तू क्या आलतू फालतू लिखता रहता है मेरी समझ में तो कुछ आता नहीं है!
Dont worry. Your life is secure. 72 houries in Jannat and all that. Relax. You dont need to worry about other things.
@ Mad Azlan:-
i think that is how you were born.
you people dont deserve or digest respect given to you. When everyone is talking gentle then why the hell are you using abusive language?
its all taught in your religion. nobody gives a damn to what you or your believes have to say. just remember one thing what ever you people do, Allah is noticing that. you will get what you sow.
i think you need to read your Quran again to know what is the concept of GOD. always trying to compare your religion with others. what do you people get from that. Same is the habbit of your so called zakir naik.
stay in your religions and keep all your assumptions or home made concepts upto you. or share it with your muslim brothers.
why dont you respect Krishna, Ram, Hanuman.
they are also God’s messengers. prophet mohamed was not having a tag on his body stating messenger of God.
Respect and be Respected
Peace..
agniveer, you mentioned that there are three entities god, soul, and nature.
but then the concept of devtas do not fit in any of the three, thus these should be taken as part of god, and then since devtas can’t be considered as complete form of god, so they can only be said as his transformed form.
i think that these three entities are no doubt present but are created by god as his transformed form. some fall in category of maya or avidya like nature, and some fall in vidya like soul and god.
just like the way you said about separation of god from avidya , in same way when shri madbhagwad purana talks about this vikriti philosophy at the same time it also separates him from maya,
in second skanda : chapter 5, shloka 18 says that:
“he is devoid of characteristics of maya and is infinite.
for creation, sustenance and destruction, the three characteristics raja, satwa and tama are accepted by him.”
this means he only accepts these characteristics in him for these three purposes but still is different from it.
shloka 20: ” he covers himself by these three characteristics , so people are unable to know him”.
this means that whenever you tries to define god as kind, and other nice characteristics , these fall in catagory of satwa guna, and by shloka 18 it is clear that god accepts in him these characteristics for sustenance of universe, his this form is generally considered as vishnu in puranas and thus all the avtars are for sustenance , and are believed to be of vishnu.
even then, this shloka makes it clear that god whom puranas are referring is not vishnu but when we talk of god available for us, he is certainly narayan or vishnu.
now further, this philosophy is explained from shloka 21 to 25, that how the universe came into being by acceptance of characteristics by god and it’s transformation.
Namaste Yash
——but then the concept of devtas do not fit in any of the three——
Devta in Sanskrit means an entity with ‘useful qualities’. So mother, father, friend, water, fire, etc are all Devatas. But there is no mention in Vedas that Devatas be worshipped.
—–some fall in category of maya or avidya like nature, and some fall in vidya like soul and god.——
Avidya and Vidya are properties (Guna) and soul and God are entities (Guni) possessing these properties.
——in same way when shri madbhagwad purana talks about this vikriti philosophy—–
Bhagwat Purana conflicts Vedas at many places and thus cant be taken at face value in serious philosophical matters.
——-“he is devoid of characteristics of maya and is infinite.——-
Agreed.
——–this means he only accepts these characteristics in him for these three purposes but still is different from it.——–
Eeshvar is different from Prakriti. He controls Prakriti but never accepts its properties as Hiss own. There is diference b/w controlling something and become one with it.
———” he covers himself by these three characteristics , so people are unable to know him”.——–
True God will never cover Himself to lead people astray. So He never covers Himself. Rather Souls are covered by Avidya due to their own Karma and Sanskaras.
——–all the avtars are for sustenance , and are believed to be of vishnu.——–
Eeshvar sustains universe even today without Avatar. So He can always do it without changing His traits. He is formless and remains so always.
namaste vajra.
1. you said devtas are entities with useful qualities like father, mother, fire etc but are not worshiped.
while actually rig veda starts with word ” agnimile” , means agni ki stuti karte hain.
worship should not be taken like that of islamic philosophy. in hinduism those people whao have good qualities and those who are responsible for out sustenance are respected or you can say worshiped.
like for a child , his mother is his god, for a wife her husband is her pati parmeshwar, and for saints also these devtas are worshiped like fire, food etc.
2. avidya is not a separate gun but simply absence of vidya. avidya is not a characteristics of soul, it is a characteristics of sthula sharira, souls is just entrapped in this maya, and there are seven doors ( seven chakras ), which should be opened by mind to reach at soul, the form of god.
3. about bhagwad purana , i think it was written in order to understand vedas more clearly, and people with less knowledge were given freedom to choose their dharmas from it, who were not able to understand vedas. but to judge bhagwad purana we should also have true knowledge of vedas. but i think at present it’s extremely difficult. i started reading vedas meaning at aarya samaj website, and they made a mistake in the very first verse. in meaning of hotaram ratnadhatamam. i think the whole agni purana is based on this line, the science of gemstones. but they are taking it’s meaning as shlpvidya which is wrong.
4. i think all the things are controlled internally, not externally. this thing is again like islamic philosophy which thinks that god controls universe on remote control.
you can see, all the changes occur in nature are internal, not like any external ray or energy coming into them.
and this internal control implies that controller is inside it, but in different form. you see that’s why science is easily able to explain every phenomena without any need of god.
5. for last comment i will only say that, soul are not covered but are…
@yash
Namaste brother,
Your understating of Rigveda Mantra 1/1/1 is not correct. Although it is not easy task to understand whole science of Mantra but this will be helpful to you & you can explore more.
Rigveda Mantra 1/1/1
अ॒ग्निनमी॑ळे पु॒रोहि॑तं यज्ञ॒स्य॑ दे॒वम्रत्विज॑म्।
होता॑रं रत्न॒धात॑मम् ॥१॥ – ऋ० १।१।१
“Agnimedey Purohitam Yajasya Devam, Ritvijam Hotaaram Ratandhaatamam .”
I worship/glorify (Idey) the God who is most supreme (“Agni” made of Agrinni Dhatu means who is existed even before its creation ) & source of all light (Agni), Who is (PUROHITAM) ‘Puraha’ i.e., ‘Puri’ like Janakpuri, Vikaspuru etc. So, this entire universe is a ‘Puri’. (HITAM) means one who wishes welfare i.e., holds, cares, nurses, protects. So, God is our Purohitam i.e., He only takes care providing with all comforts, nurses us with food etc., and protects us always. That is why, Purohitam is also the name of God.
Who is doer/giver (Hotram/priest) of Cosmic Sacrifice (yajasya) by creating-preservation-dissolution of this universe. (The universe is comparable
to an eternal sacrifice, in which God is the Principal Priest.)
(RITVIJAM) means whom we worship in all seasons
(RATNADHATAMAM) i.e., and Supreme Sustainer of all the jewel-like
planets that decorate the cosmic Drama. (The Cosmic Drama:The Universe
presents itself as a drama in which the sun, moon, planets, etc. are principal actors.)
http://www.vjsingh.info/homa.html
thanks for this meaning. i was expecting this type of meaning , and i also wanted to consider devtas as just different powers or names of god with different characteristics , so even though if we worship god on these different names, we worship same god.
i also want to add that i think ratnadhatamam refers to the science of gemstones ( both the gemstones which originated in magma and holded by it, and which are given by it, and those planets which are like gemstones ) because in astrology gemstones and planets have certain relations.
Namaste Brother Truth Seeker
How are you? Are you on facebook?
further the formless god is explained in second skanda, chapter 9:
shloka 32: ” before the origin of universe, it was only me, there was nothing except me, neither sthula, nor sukshma nor the cause of these both agyan. where there is not this universe, i am there also, and in this universe whatever is being felt is also me, and after end of it, whatever will be left will also be me.”
32: “actually, those things which actually do not exist but are felt in me, other than me should be considered as my maya.”
here those things are referred as maya which are not permanent, come in existance for a short duration and then dissolve again in true form of god. these things are felt like something other than god, but are actually not.
34: in bodies of living beings, the five elements enter to form it, but at the same time being in their respective forms do not enter in it, just like that in their bodies i entered in form of soul, but at same time, since nothing exists except me, i am not in them.
nature is full of evidences of this transformation philosophy.
like water turns to ice. but ice can’t act like water.
like energy turns to matter.
in the same way, universe is transformed form of god, but even then can’t act like god.
this is proper definition of god being omnipresent.
Yash
——-shloka 32: ” before the origin of universe, it was only me, there was nothing except me, neither sthula, nor sukshma nor the cause of these both agyan.——-
Then who created Agyan and who got suffered from it when there was none other than God?
——-nature is full of evidences of this transformation philosophy.
like water turns to ice. but ice can’t act like water.——–
But neither of water and ice claim self to be Real and other to be imaginary. Is that the same case with God and Prakriti? No. So this analogy does not work.
——-in the same way, universe is transformed form of god, but even then can’t act like god.——-
Neither universe can act like God nor God can act like universe. Both are DIFFERENT. And mind you ice and water are also different.
——-this is proper definition of god being omnipresent.——-
I found Agniveer’s definition more convincing. You confused God’s omnipresence with Him being single entity in reality. But that is not correct. ‘OMNI’ itself suggests that there are other entities than God too. When we say- X is the first in class, that automatically means there are others too in the class among which X is first. Similarly OMNIpresent means someone who is present in ALL.
Regards
1. first comment was like the question who created satan.
i continue from my last 5th comment which couldn’t come there completely.
i think presence of avidya is necessary for balance. like night is required for importance of day. imagine if someone got all knowledge about his previous birth, his present life will be troubled. animals can live their life only because of this avidya, other wise they will feel deep sensation of pain. this is like level of anesthesia. somewhere there is complete lack of sensation to feel less pain like non living things. this is mainly nature or maya.
according to you, world should work perfectly, but in reality there is no perfection. everything has defects and these defects are necessary to feel the necessity of perfection. and then finally man realizes that only god is perfect, nothing else.
2. in analogy of ice and water, the real state is only assimilation of molecules h2o.
they get assimilated in different environments to give different shape, but any of these states are not real. there are temporary.
3. what if i say god can act like universe? whatever is happening are all done by god.
ice and water are different in their characteristics but are composed of same kind of molecules. thus they are different but even then same.
by the way , i want to know whether, there is any mantra in vedas which define this prakriti and soul and also make them eternal?
thank you.
agniveerji….
can anyone explain or respond to this video plz link:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueydb0yQN_g
They have already been long refuted in http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-vedas/ and http://agniveer.com/3953/mantras-rigveda/
@samir
Will any one refute this person? He has thrown many challenges to all Islamic scholars across the world including Zakir Niak but no one have dare to accept his challenge. & There is price also of 50000$ if any one wins and shut up site. Why Muslim Scholars do not want win debate with him? Why do they scare ?
http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
My Debate with a Shiite Mullah on What Makes Us Human
@Samir
The Very Talented “Agniveer” supplies Two links Claiming them to be Refutations of The Video (vedas have been changed) dated April 27 2011…
Link 1– Mantras in the Veda (March 28 2011)
Link 2– Textual Corruption In Veda (June 16 2011) (Final Response)
But was Agniveer successful in Refuting as He suggests “They have already been long refuted in Link 1 Link 2″ ???
The answer Is “NO” … Know Why & Know How ???
Click on the Link Below and Read the article dated—– JUNE 23 2011 ( 7 days after Agniveer’s Final response ie Link 2) and Judge who got Owned !!!
http://www.islamhinduism.com/responses/answering-agniveer/116-debunking-agniveer-textual-corruption-in-vedas
Agony
——The Very Talented “Agniveer”——-
Yes, IITians are very talented, nothing new about this. But when you know this, why bring your Madarsa replies every time and get humiliated?
——Click on the Link Below and ….. Judge who got Owned !!!——–
I judged. You lost
Here is why
http://satyagni.com/5083/islam-and-hinduism-debate/
@Vajra & KB
Namaste Brothers
Thanks to God, great Vajra &KB come back. Your arrival fills us with energy especially me.
@AgonyVeer
Veda are corrupt or not whatever you believe, No one going to kill you just for not believing in anything. But we should remember what holy prophet teach us
“slay them(Non-believer in prophet) wherever ye catch them.” (Q 2:191)
http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
My Debate with a Shiite Mullah on What Makes Us Human
Thanks Bro TS
Happy to be back with you guys. Are you on Facebook?
@TS:
Nice to be back too
You reached Quran 2:191? I tried earnestly to read the Quran, but got stuck in 2:6, 2:7 itself.
Could not move forward from there.
@Vajra
Brother Vajra I am not on facebook. But I think facebook will right place to post comments. Actually Islamhiduismdotcom has blocked my user ID and deleted my comments also. I am not familiar with facebook as to how discussion takes place there but I think after few days passing there I will like it. What you think?
Bro TS
Absolutely. Even if you dont comment there, at least we would be in touch forever. And I advice you not to go to terrorists’ sites. There can be no consensus b/w terrorists and peaceful people. They are preparing for Ghazwa e Hind by hook or crook. Some of them will write ‘rebuttals’ to our work and challenge us to refute so that we take our eyes off from the real threat and waste our energy on countering baseless arguments.
We need to understand that even logic and reasoning have their domains. Outside that, they are of no use. I shall never allow any terrorist to question my peaceful belief (whether right or wrong will come later) unless he leaves terrorism.
@Truth Seeker/True Deceiver
Perhaps the deliberate omission of the verse preceding Qur’an 2:191 adds spice to your Low Life but anyways Let’s consider it for the sake of those who are misinformed.
Qur’an 2:190
“Fight in the way of Allah Those who Fight You but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors”
Qur’an 2:191
“And slay them wherever you may come upon them, and drive them away from wherever they drove you away – for oppression is even worse than killing. And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship (al-Masjid al- Haram) unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them: such shall be the recompense of those who deny the truth.
The verse Qur’an 2:190
Clearly provides the Condition to Fight only those who Fight against you ( the Combatants ) further it prohibits breaking the laws of war which means No civilians,No Old-women- Children,No Unarmed Person etc should be attacked.
So be at Peace Mate.
Agony
Quran [2:190] provides nothing because it was abrogated
Go fool someone else
@AgonyVeer
__________Fight in the way of Allah Those who Fight_______
Above verse clearly explains the people who do not believe in pedophiliac prophet and Allah of Quran kill them wherever you found them if they are weak opponent. 80% population of world do not believe in Islam & prophet Mohammed. According to this people like me, Varja, KB , Agniveer, Ali Sina etc. who are against Islamic ideology and help the victim to come out from the trap of Islam should be killed.
_________Allah does not like transgressors__________
But Quran’s Allah likes the people who makes sex slave to the women of Kufrs, child marriage etc. prophet Mohammad himself exemplify before others by doing this. Should prophet footsteps be followed?
And (How Islam abolished the slavery)
http://alisina.org/mariyah-the-sex-slave-of-the-holy-prophet/
Mariyah, the Sex Slave of the Holy Prophet
________And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship (al-Masjid al- Haram) unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them_______Quran 2:191
The verse seems totally nonsense. If they are not near Al-Masjid-al-Haram then Muslim should fight with them not matter they fight or not.
________such shall be the recompense of those who deny the truth._________
Will you worship/respect the person who kills one’s all family male members and makes slave women of one’s house just for not believing in his ideology / words?
@Vajra Pukes ….Errr “Yes, IITians are very talented, nothing new about this. But when you know this, why bring your Madarsa replies every time and get humiliated?”
That is News to Me… Look how quickly time passes by.All these years i was under the same old brand new impression of the IIT’s. Its only now that i have learnt They incorporated a Few Newer Courses such as ” Fooling Mechanics (FM), Strength of Manipulation (SOM), Deception of Minds (DOM), Hate & Must Transfer (HMT) etc.. Cheers !
Hey ! No Wonder They also would be providing ” Licensed to Lie ” on your Certificate of Character….awesome, isn’t it ?
Cool Job …Guys !!!
My Madarsa comments are way too good for your Understanding.And yes Save those smileys for the bad times..You will not have to wait for Long..
Agony
——-Save those smileys for the bad times..You will not have to wait for Long..——-
Why? Planning to blast another bomb somewhere and going directly to 72 houris?
@AgonyVeer:
Did not a goat eat two chapters of the Quran from under Ayesha’s bed as all and sundry were mourning Mo’s death? IIRC, they were chapters related to breastfeeding [LOL] and stoning people to death [even greater LOL]. Goat > Allah?
@Kallu/Kal Bhairav said “Did not a goat eat two chapters of the Quran from under Ayesha’s bed as all and sundry were mourning Mo’s death? IIRC, they were chapters related to breastfeeding [LOL] and stoning people to death [even greater LOL]”
——> How did you know that those chapters contained breastfeeding and stoning people manuals ???
Oh pause for a moment…yes…yes..Good Lord !!! i think its feasible…
Bingo ! Since you know too much about that incident i can not rule out the possibility that some 1400 years ago You were Born as The “Goatee” who Chewed too Much… Awe ! you have been such a bad Goatee i can tell you…Ummm ! But you haven’t changed much eversince that Janam…Looks like you haven’t learnt the lessons Despite being punished over and over again in every Janam…
Chill Goat ! ooopppsss .. I mean Chill Mate !!
@Agony:
Dunno dude…I am just an ordinary guy…I was surfing and found this. Looks like Ayesha herself reported this.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090827012317AAe6nG7
though quran is itself a corrupted book, ( have a look at this http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Qur'an
and
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Corruption_of_the_Qur%27an)
but the most important thing is your prophet lied about your god allah.
and here is it’s proof:
Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have CUT OFF HIS LIFE ARTERY (AORTA). (Hilali-Khan)
Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, then We would certainly have CUT OFF HIS AORTA. (Shakir)
and exactly this thing happened, proving that he lied.
Sahih al-Bukhari 4428—The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I FEEL AS IF MY AORTA IS BEING CUT FROM THAT POISON”
Sunan Abu Dawud 4449—Umm Bishr said to the Prophet during the sickness of which he died: What do you think about your illness, Apostle of Allah? I do not think about the illness of my son except the poisoned sheep of which he had eaten with you at Khaibar. The Prophet said: And I do not think about my illness except that. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN IT CUT OFF MY AORTA.
It seems that by eating the Quran, KB has successfully been able to rise up the ladder. Look, he has incarnated as a human. Alas! maha-mad (sabko pagal bana wala) could do nothing about it. And above all what made Allah so effete as to not being able to condemn KB to eternal hell and roast him perpetually there. So, this goes to prove that sanatanis have an edge over the maha-maddens.
Another great article brother @Agniveer.
-Karna
@Kal Bhairav
Im running out of time but anyways the Hadith you have presented is Sunan Ibn Majah’s Hadith. His collection came centuries later than the FIVE earlier ones out of which Sahih Muslim & Sahih Bukhari are the Prominent ones… Any Hadith that does not match these or contradicts these Two Main hadiths, should be Dropped/Rejected.. This is the Rule..
But Inshallah ! i will check it once more…
Thank you
Agony
What does your rule say about this? Where do you find verse of Rajm in Modern day Wahabi Quran? Enjoy..
SAHIH Bukhari [9:424]
“No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Qur’an),
and among WHAT WAS REVEALED WAS THE VERSE OF AR-RAJM (stoning adulterers to death).’” (See Hadith No. 817,Vol.
@Vajra
aw aw !! Same old trick ?? Okay.. What you suggest is Modern Day Wahabi Qur’an has Rejected the so called Verse (Ar-Rajm) hmm ?
Brother !! Then you must go looking for the Ancient Versions of Qur’an and Find the one which has not excluded the verse Ar-Rajm …
Hey wait i am not finished yet…Before you start searching for that version here is the clue ” SUCH A VERSION NEVER DID EXIST ”
Why ?? Simple :Just like the Purana’s can not be preferred over the Vedas..
I wished to elaborate on the answer but then it would be a lengthy and tiresome process copy pasting it from sites… But you can always follow the Link below to get a better understanding
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/preservation_of_noble_quran.htm
Oh just to Remind you … Please Remove those Dark Glasses that you wore while writing me back… You won’t see the Truth otherwise..
Brother/Sister Agony
When KB gave you Hadith of Ibn Majah, you asked for SAHIH Bukhari and when we gave SB, you jumped to Puranas
Didn’t you write this
“”"”"Hadith you have presented is Sunan Ibn Majah’s Hadith. His collection came centuries later than the FIVE earlier ones out of which Sahih Muslim & Sahih Bukhari are the Prominent ones”"”"”"
——–SUCH A VERSION NEVER DID EXIST———
Tell this to Shiites who believe in Quran of 16000 verses.
——-Please Remove those Dark Glasses that you wore ——-
Sorry friend, all this is as per Quran [2:6,7]. Its not just dark glasses but seal on my heart and veil on eyes by merciful Allah that She decided way back while writing Lohe Mehfooz
@Agony:
No problem friend. Take your time. Also watch the following:
@Agony:
Also, the Shiites want me to believe that the Quran IS corrupted.
Read below.
http://sites.google.com/site/mousawi/EarlyDebatesontheIntegrityoftheQuran.pdf
They say that when the Mahdi returns, he will have Allah’s original Quran. I am confused bro…I also want to avoid eternal hellfire. But I am so confused…Help plz.
@Kal Bhairav
awee !! you are so Innocent ..ummmm !!! Tell you whattt ?
Take it easy… Go Slow.. Stick to your Veda’s and keep waiting till Mahdi emerges out with the Original Qur’an as claimed by the Shia’s..either ways your destination shall remain unchanged and Allah knows the Best.
But what if Mahdi surprises you with the same copy of Qur’an that WE have had and believed in for the past 1400 years ? o god ! in that case you will have to Help Yourself surviving the last shock of your life.
Agony
——But what if Mahdi surprises you with the same copy of Qur’an——
And WHAT IF Mahdi surprises you with same copy of Quran having the words ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ interchanged or ‘Allah’ and ‘Satan’ interchanged or ‘Momin’ and ‘Kafir’ interchanged
Umbrella of WHAT IF is too big dear friend! Prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, Ali, Aga Khan etc are all waiting there
@Vajra
“And WHAT IF Mahdi surprises you with same copy of Quran having the words ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ interchanged or ‘Allah’ and ‘Satan’ interchanged or ‘Momin’ and ‘Kafir’ interchanged ”
In an impetuous attempt my friend you have gone too far flying with your fantasies. Let me introduce a suitable term “ChuTarka” (C****ya Banane wala Tark) for your blunt approach.
Now considering your Chutarka what happens if the words such as (Allah-Heaven-Momin) are interchanged with (satan-Hell-kafir) in the Qur’an ?
Brother What do you expect will happen if The Word ‘Cow’ is interchanged with The Word ‘Donkey’ ? Will their Physical Identities and their Individual Properties Change too ? Obviously NoT.
The Conclusion is
1.You being a Sanatan Dharmi anticipate the Coming of Mahdi (a.s)
Wow !
2.You also expect Him to emerge with a Qur’an in His Hands but not Veda’s . Hilarious !
3. I Do Not need to tell Where You are Heading for…
@Agony:
Well, sure. If I am going to hell, I am going to hell. Quran 2:6-7 clearly says that Allah has sealed our hearts.
But I think hell will be a very interesting place. For one, I will meet many of my ancestors whom I never met because they passed before my birth. Also, I have some doubts on some physics…so I guess I will want to meet Einstein there. Then, there are a few Indian Philosophers I would like to meet also. So, I am looking forward to going to hell actually.
Plus, there will be 72 sects of Muslims who are following the wrong version of Islam. Perhaps YOU WILL BE THERE ALSO!!! I would love to put a face to the posters here on Agniveer. It will indeed be great to finally MEET you in person. This is unless of course you belong to the 1 sect of 73 whom Mohammed promised [Jannat].
What will YOU be doing in heaven, friend for the rest of eternity [assuming you belong to the one correct sect of 73]?
@Kal Bhairav
“But I think hell will be a very interesting place. For one, I will meet many of my ancestors whom I never met because they passed before my birth. Also, I have some doubts on some physics…so I guess I will want to meet Einstein there. Then, there are a few Indian Philosophers I would like to meet also. So, I am looking forward to going to hell actually.”
—Since you have made up your Mind for an everlasting refuge in Hell,There is not much one can do about it.Whatever makes you happy.Forget about clearing your doubts on physics and Philosophies,it won’t make any difference once you are IN.—-
“Plus, there will be 72 sects of Muslims who are following the wrong version of Islam. Perhaps YOU WILL BE THERE ALSO!!! I would love to put a face to the posters here on Agniveer. It will indeed be great to finally MEET you in person. This is unless of course you belong to the 1 sect of 73 whom Mohammed promised [Jannat].
What will YOU be doing in heaven, friend for the rest of eternity ?”
Being a Muslim by Name and Not by Practice does not give Me or Anyone a one way ticket to Jannah.One has to Strive for it.Yes there are different sects that might not make it to Jannah unless they Follow Qur’an and the Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).But then Allah is the Most Merciful and Allah knows the Best and one can not decide on the Fate of the Believers But Allah. Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..
1.Now what will You be doing after your companions In Hell (72 sects) Abandon You Never to Return back ??
2.You don’t have to go to Hell to Meet Me for Two Reasons
a) You may or may not find me in Hell.There is a 50-50 chance ??
b)Stay with Me here and I will show You the Hell on Earth..
@Kallu Aka Kal Bhairav
Amazingly The Video says it all Sweety !
Thanks for Making Me a Witness to Your Desperation ,Frustration and Helplessness.All I can do is to Pity you my Friend.
@Agonyveer:
Since you have made up your Mind for an everlasting refuge in Hell,There is not much one can do about it.
It is all in Allah’s hands. He can simply remove the seal he has placed on my heart per Quran 2:6-7. Allah is great. But as of now, with the free will that he gave me I have no choice but to reject Islam as a cooked up religion. Either he could not have given me free will and made me submit to him. Now that he HAS given me free will AND placed a seal on my heart [2:6-7], he is having one less submitter to him. As I said, it is all in Allah’s hands…just remove the seal Allah and then I will become a willing believer in Allah! Allaho Akbar then!
Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..
Wait a sec…So, hell and heaven are not eternal? Folks can get to move from one to another?
@ Kal Bhairav says
“It is all in Allah’s hands. He can simply remove the seal he has placed on my heart per Quran 2:6-7. Allah is great. But ‘AS OF NOW’, with the free will that he gave me I have no choice but to reject Islam as a cooked up religion.”
—> “AS OF NOW’ indicates your present state of mind. You are Rejecting Islam NOW. But you are not sure what future holds for you. Again there is a 50% chance that you Might or Might Not Reject Islam if Future. This ambiguity is a Result of the Free Will.
And Since You Totally Have Not Denied /Ruled Out the Possibility of Occurrence of any such Event (Accepting Islam) Concludes that Allah has NOT set a Seal upon your Heart or Hearing..
Is there any Compulsion upon you or any Non-Believer to Accept Islam Due to the Fear of Going to Hell ??? Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ???
So Take it or Leave NOT through Assumptions/Ego but base it upon your sincere and Honest approach to seeking the Right Path.Your Heart will only be Sealed when You Knowingly/Deliberately choose to follow the Other Path,
Rejecting and Denying the existence of Allah.—
“Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..
Wait a sec…So, hell and heaven are not eternal? Folks can get to move from one to another?”
—> Friend ! Why would the Hell and Heaven not remain Eternal and Everlasting if the so called Folks (Imperfect Believers ) get transferred from Hell to Heaven ???
@AgonyVeer:
Again there is a 50% chance that you Might or Might Not Reject Islam if Future.
How is this? What is the chance that I might or might not reject Christianity in the future? What is the chance that I might or might not reject Sikhism in the future? Seems like when we have mutually exclusive events, covering the entire possibility of events, the possibility of one event is < 50%. So, please reframe this probability thing.
And Since You Totally Have Not Denied /Ruled Out the Possibility of Occurrence of any such Event (Accepting Islam) Concludes that Allah has NOT set a Seal upon your Heart or Hearing..
Who are the folks on whom Allah has set the seal on their hearts per Quran 2:6-7? Glad to know I am not one of them [according to you], but who are these people and why does Allah have to seal their hearts?
Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ???
If you do NOT believe in something it does not mean that that thing does not exist. For instance, many Muslims believe that Jesus is not God. That does not mean that Jesus was NOT God! Same for Krishna, etc.
I said that I am looking forward to hell because there are going to be more interesting people there.
Your Heart will only be Sealed when You Knowingly/Deliberately choose to follow the Other Path, Rejecting and Denying the existence of Allah
Quran 2:6-7 makes no mention of this. It says that Allah has himself sealed the hearts of disbelievers. There is no explanation prior to this verse of what caused Allah to seal their hearts.
Friend ! Why would the Hell and Heaven not remain Eternal and Everlasting if the so called Folks (Imperfect Believers ) get transferred from Hell to Heaven ???
Oh, so your point is that come judgement day, there will begin eternaility of heaven and hell. But those in heaven can get transfered to hell and vice versa? What would be…
Continuing…
What would be the causative factors of transferring between heaven and hell? It seems like your conception of Islamic afterlife is closer to Hinduism with reincarnation, etc. If not, how is it different?
Kal Bhairav said
“Oh, so your point is that come judgement day, there will begin eternaility of heaven and hell. But those in heaven can get transfered to hell and vice versa? What would be…”
—–> What does Eternal Mean ? i think it Means Everlasting/Never Ending/Ageless etc…
So Hell and Heaven are like two Eternal Homes. I do not understand why would this Eternal State be affected with the transfer of those imperfect folks back to Heaven once they have faced punishment in Hell for their Sins.
When you shift to a NEW house from your OLD one, Does it make any difference to the Position,Structure etc of the Old Home ?
The answer Is a Big NO… its common sense.
@Kal Bhairav
Excuse Me ! You said ” As of Now I reject Islam ” but you did not specify the likelihood of any other events (religions).Perhaps you are Ignoring the context Where in We have considered only Hinduism(which you represent) and Islam(which i represent).
Considering the above there are finally 2 events and i think my argument holds good.
Context : [ Is there any Compulsion upon you or any Non-Believer to Accept Islam Due to the Fear of Going to Hell ???
Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ]
Your Response— “If you do NOT believe in something it does not mean that that thing does not exist. For instance, many Muslims believe that Jesus is not God. That does not mean that Jesus was NOT God! Same for Krishna, etc.”
My Response —-> Because you don’t believe in Hell and Allah,You mean to say that You are scared of Hell and Allah Exists too ?? isn’t it a self defeating argument from your side ??
Friend You said :
“Quran 2:6-7 makes no mention of this. It says that Allah has himself sealed the hearts of DISBELIEVERS . THERE IS NO MENTION PRIOR to this verse of WHAATcaused Allah to seal THEIR hearts.”
Qur’an 2:6 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ
“BEHOLD, as for ***THOSE WHO*** ARE BENT ON DENYING THE TRUTH – it is all one to them whether thou warnest them or dost not warn them: they will not believe.
Qur’an 2:7 خَتَمَ اللّهُ عَلَى قُلُوبِهمْ وَعَلَى سَمْعِهِمْ وَعَلَى أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عظِيمٌ
” God; has Sealed **THEIR** hearts and **THEIR** hearing, and over **THEIR** eyes is a veil; and awesome suffering awaits **THEM**.
Is there Really (No) Mention Of WHAT caused Allah to seal THEIR hearts ??
(Alhumdulillah ) Without any Doubt Allah HAS Mentioned the Reason for Sealing their Hearts…
Continued :
Is there Really (No) Mention Of WHAT caused Allah to seal THEIR hearts ??
(Alhumdulillah ) Without any Doubt Allah HAS Mentioned the Reason for Sealing their Hearts in CLEAR WORDS
(as For ***THOSE WHO*** ARE BENT ON DENYING THE TRUTH….)
i:e Who are HELL Bent and Leave No Stones Unturned to Deny the TRUTH by being Injudicious and Dishonest while searching for TRUTH.
@Agony:
Firstly, even within Hinduism and Islam, there are different sects and subsects. You want me to convert to Islam. The Pope wants me to convert to Catholicism, etc. So, for me the % of event is not 50%. Dont try and impose some arbitrary contexts to claim a figure of 50%. The % is a lot lower.
You mean to say that You are scared of Hell and Allah Exists too
I said I am looking forward to Islamic hell, because it will be full of interesting people. Heaven will be boring for me. Explain what you will be doing in heaven and then I can decide.
Are the people denying the truth because Allah sealed their hearts or did Allah seal their hearts because they denied the truth?
Also, explain what this truth is. I am curious.
@Agony:
Please clarify…as an infidel, will I burn in eternal hell forever along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims? OR, will I be given the chance along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims to gaining entry into heaven? Can people in heaven go to hell? What are the causative factors that make Allah transfer folks from hell to heaven and vice versa?
I asked this already. Plz clarify.
@Visitors
it will depend on “Allah Will” which sect goes to heaven which not. And there is nowhere verses in Holy Quran about transferring the souls heaven to hell and vice-versa. Allah only purpose to create us to get worshiped himself. Whoever worshiped to Allah be Osama, Kasab, Mohammed etc not matter worshiper is pedophilia, child abuser, terrorist, rapist etc will be in heaven and who does not worship will be eternal hell may be Mahatma Gandhi, Buddha, Einstien etc.
Worship is most important for Allah. Mostly focus in Quran is on worship and belief in prophet, Allah & Quran.
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 445:
Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet said, “Gabriel said to me, ‘Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire).” The Prophet was asked. “Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?” He replied, “Even then.”
For disbelievers there is no salvation.
[al-Ma'idah 5:36] As for those who disbelieve, lo! if all that is in the earth were theirs, and as much again therewith, to ransom them from the doom on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful doom.
[al-Kahf 18:106] That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers.
@ Truthseeker,
Dont you think that your Allah is being little unfair? you said whoever worships allah will go to heaven, no matter if he is a terrorist, child abuser, rapist etc etc…
how is that fair? if he is believed to be God, how can he say such things. Let me tell you.. Its all BULLSHIT. keep your sad philosphies upto you only. nobody is really interested in knowing whether they have a seat in hell or heaven. Whatever a human does, accordingly he gets his reward. you really think osama, kasab or muhamed are going to heaven after committing so much of crime? we people have no rights to judge anyone. God is there and that is his job to reward his human beings according to their doings. God’s worship doesnt mean sayoing prayers and killing innocent people. even if you dont worship God and love his people without considering their religion and castes, he ll be more than happy. All the people in the world love their ow religions. you and me cannot change them. According to you, your religion is better and likewise for every other person its the same. Do good and there is no point in arguing and making statements about your religion and showing it superior than others. remember one thing… GOD IS ONE.
whatever you do good or bad is known to him..
take care and try to love your fellow beings no matter what their religion or castes are.
@Amandeep
Brother,
When you start arguing & reasoning with Quranic verses you are not Muslim from that time. Brother, You should have firm belief in Quran, prophet & Allah. Allah is all merciful he can forgive all sinners including rapist, child-abuser, pedophilia, criminal, murders, terrorist etc but not non-beleiver in prophet Mohammad/idol worshipers. Non-believer/Idol worshiper are worst creatures and Muslims should not do any friendship with them & if possible kill the them wherever you found them as holy prophet instructed to his followers.
Some people find Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) statements contradictory and try to reconcile them like this
Muhammad in his farewell sermon said, “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you,” with the fact that in his deathbed he said, “No two religions are allowed in Arabia” and ordered the forced conversion, expulsion or ethnic cleansing of the Jews and Christians and the massacre of Pagans?
and on these basis they start condemnation of Islam. With reasoning & logics you can not understand Islam.
@truthseeker,
Allah is merciful and he can forgive rapists, murderers and child abusers but cant forgive non believers in muhammed. i really dont care what you, quran, muhammed or ur allah has to say. how can killing non believers in islam be allowed. definietly your allah whom you people think is the sole operator in islam is not God in any means. if these are his teachings and philosphies than we are really blessed to be born in a different religion. how can someone kill an innocent person for no reason. anyways whatever is written in your book is written by you people only. God cannot make such statements. you can go through the religious books and you ll find the difference. in all the religions there is always a concept of love. Love your fellow beings rather than hating them or killing them just because they belong to a different religion. and to be honest with you, i have no interest at all to go through your book or anything for that matter.
i am happy the way we are taught. i am blessed by the Almighty master to send me to a very nice and respected religion. Its time for you people to change your mentality and live like humans.
hope you can understand.
@Amandeep
You are talking in language of Ali Sina who believes Isalm & humanity are not compatible. A Muslim can not be human and a human cannot be Muslim. Humanity teaches us we should love the people irrespective of their different belief, faith, culture etc. But prophet Instructed to his followers Kill the non-believers/polytheist wherever you found them. Brother you are also going to be like atheist Ali-Sina. It is not good sign from the Islamic point of view. But I am happy you believe in humanity.
And you must read this article to learn what makes us human.
http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
@ Truthseeker,
So finally you believe that you are people are not human beings?? for you muhammed is more important than God? that cruel person has used you people to get his mission accomplished. to kill innocent people. what does a non believer in muhammed do to you? he is not harming you or saying anything bad abt you. why is he treated so badly and then how do you people expect respect from the world? muhammed has clearly used you people. in your mecca madina there is no entry for non muslim person… but in other religions, all are treated equally. all are treated with due respect without thinking abt religion. because each and everyone is created by the Almighty Master. how can you be cruel to that Master’s children.
Remember one thing… What goes around, comes around…
take care
Some Correction
Humanity is path of Veda. Whoever believe in humanity on Vedic path.
@Amandeep
i am also no more Muslim since 3 years.
@ Truthseeker
i am also no more Muslim since 3 years.
What do you mean by this? were you muslim before and now converted or you never were a muslim. and if you are not a muslim then why are supporting them? look i have nothing personal with any of them. because i believe in God and i also believe the fact that some way or the other we all are connected to each other. so there is no point in hating anyone. i believe that everyone has the rights to worship God in their own ways. for me Humanity and Love is the biggest religion in this world.
but what i dont like is the comparisons between religions. if muslims think their religion is greater than anyone, thats fine and we cannot change their mentality. for every person, their religion is the best.but the problem comes when muslims try to act over smart saying all the rubbish of this world to Hinduism and Christians. i believe in the concept of RESPECT & BE RESPECTED…
i believe in God and i worship with my heart and soul.
and i have his fear in my mind and heart. because whatever we do its known to him.
take care.
@Amandeep SIngh
_______i believe in God and i worship with my heart and soul____
But do not come before Muslims where they are in power. They will kill you within no time as Allah awards highest heaven & forgive all sins when a Muslim kills to a kaffir or non-believer in pedophilia prophet as prophet instructed to his followers. Kasab, Osama, Afjal were just victim of prophet teachings.
what makes us human.
http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
@truthseeker
Who cares abt what their so called allah awards to whom…certainly i dont. and abt that muhammed , he was the biggest kaffir in ur language. you know what happened with osama and ends of kasab and other culprites are not far away. definetly according to the definition that muslims give abt allah and muhammed, it seems both of themare at the negative ends… but again who cares…
all that is written in koran is written by someone who doesnt even know the meaning of God. you arguing with muslim is like wastage of time and energy… they are like pigs no matter how much you hit them they will still go and eat shit only. i hope God gives you people little bit of brains. you people are just brain washed by your sad so called preachers.
anyways no body really cares abt you in the society… no matter how nicely you treat a pig, it will still go and eat that shit only…..
take care once again…
PEACE….
@Kal Bhairav said :
” You want me to convert to Islam. The Pope wants me to convert to Catholicism, etc”
—>Are you the clay in the hands of a potter which can be molded to any desired shape ? Sorry… I do not impose my faith (Islam) upon you or any other non believer.Yes i can bring forth the richness of it but the right of getting convinced or rejecting it solely lies with the listener.
“Are the people denying the truth because Allah sealed their hearts or did Allah seal their hearts because they denied the truth?”
—-> I have already answered it through the verses Qur’an (2:6-7) which summed up wherein Denying the truth by Human out of their free will is the first process.Sealing of Heart is how Allah then Responds.
“Explain what you will be doing in Heaven then I will Decide”
—>Your Decision should be based upon your approach and judgement.what i might be doing in Heaven should not be your concern.Moreover how can i assure you about my destination? I am on a Journey and i can not just Hope to get there but I will have to strive & please Allah and Inshallah ! i will make it.
@Agony:
My point is from my perspective the idea of rejecting Islam or accepting Islam is not a 50-50 thing. It is more like follows: Take all religions in the world. Let their Number be N. Let Islam be one of them. My probability of accepting Islam is 1 by N. My probability of going to heaven is 1 by 73*N. Now, even with N = 2, this probability is not 50%. hope it is clear now.
Denying the truth by Human out of their free will is the first process.Sealing of Heart is how Allah then Responds.
What is this truth you keep referring to?
.what i might be doing in Heaven should not be your concern
Sure. I asked because I believe I will have more interesting company in hell. That is all. Islamic heaven does not interest me, frankly. I’d like to know whose company I will have in a place if I am going to spend an eternity in it. I already told you that I long to be in the company of my ancestors and few brilliant Indian philosophers. They are in hell. So, being in their company is what I want. Thanks for you invite though.
but Those who have not committed ‘Shirk’ will be indeed on the Mercy of Allah and If Allah wills,They will go to Heaven after they have been Punished in Hell for their Sins.
So, Islamic hell is not for all times? That is good. Glad to see Islam moderating. I’ll notch that up as a small victory. An entity that fries people in hell but burning them, regrowing their skin and burning them again doesnt deserve to be called “Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim”. Glad to know there is no verse in the Quran which says allah will do that.
There was a small error in the probability calculation, but in any case, the larger point is that 1/N for N>= 2 is <= 50%
@Kal Bhairav said :
“Please clarify…as an infidel, will I burn in eternal hell forever along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims? OR, will I be given the chance along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims to gaining entry into heaven?
—->Allah will Forgive anything & anyone if He pleases but Not Polytheism (Shirk).
Qur’an (4:48) إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا
“Verily, Allah forgives NOT That Partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.”
“Can people in heaven go to hell? ”
—> Are you Serious ? I do not know about any special case as such.But if you know some kindly enlighten me.
“What are the causative factors that make Allah transfer folks from hell to heaven and vice versa?”
—–> There is No vice-versa.Yes but Those who have not committed ‘Shirk’ will be indeed on the Mercy of Allah and If Allah wills,They will go to Heaven after they have been Punished in Hell for their Sins.
Too all of you arguing this point. Yes there is a place for everyone in Heaven. The terrorists will go to a place reserved for them. The Murderers and Rapist will go to a place reserved for them. In their respective places they will terrorize each other and kill and murder until there is only one left who will then commit suicide in the most horrible way one can imagine.
They will serve their own justice upon themselves. This is their just reward. They will vanish from the face of earth and heaven.
So if you don’t do right on earth don’t expect to be done right to in your respective Heavens.