Q: Some scholars say that Ishwar does not act and has no properties. He simply witnesses whatever happens and universe is managed through the laws He has designed.

A:

1. Ishwar on contrary is the most dynamic entity. And his properties are infinite. However his dynamism does not mean that He Himself changes but that He is source of all actions.

2. What we term as laws is actually Ishwar performing actions in most perfect manner. So perfect are these that we are able to see them being conducted accurately each time. Some of His actions thus can be translated into mathematical equations as well. And a repeatable perfect unexplained phenomenon witnessed by us is termed as ‘Law’ by us because we cannot go beyond it to know how it happens.

This is simply like a deaf-blind child being fed consistently by his mother since childhood whenever he weeps. And then the child claiming that its a ‘Law’ that whenever he cries, he gets food!

Unless there is a cause, there can be no effect. And Ishwar is the ultimate cause.

3. Shwetashwatar Upanishad 6.8 puts it as: Ishwar can conduct His duties without requiring external support. None is comparable or better than Him. He is the Supreme with infinite powers and infinite dynamism. Had Ishwar not been dynamic, it would have been impossible to create, manage and destroy the universe. He is animate, all-pervading and most active.

4. When he acts, he acts in most optimized manner depending upon the time and space for the particular action – neither less nor more. Afterall He is all perfect!

Q: Does Ishwar incarnate or not?

A: Depends on how you define incarnation. He does not incarnate or sends messengers in the way Prophet comes in Islam and son of God comes in Bible. Vedas clearly define Him as unborn, formless and unchangeable. On contrary Vedas state that He is able to perform ALL His duties at ALL times maintaining His unchangeable identity.

Refer Yajurveda 34.53 (He is unborn and maintaining One single identity always) and Yajurveda 40.8 (He is always uniform, without body, without nerves, without gaps and unchangeable).

Q: What about incarnations like Sri Krishna? He clearly asserts in Geeta 4.7 that whenever there is a decay of Dharma (virtues) and rise of Adharma (evil), I incarnate on this earth.

A:

1. There is NO mantra in Vedas to assert that Ishwar takes birth. Since Vedas alone is supreme evidence, Geeta has to be interpreted only in lines of Vedas.

2. Sri Krishna was a noble yogi. It is natural tendency of noble people to desire for protection of Dharma and destruction of Adharma. Selflessness is an innate trait of great people. Thus Sri Krishna wanted to take birth again and again to serve the cause of Dharma. We bow to such great thoughts of Sri Krishna and that is why He is our role model.

3. Some people say that Ishwar has to take incarnation to destroy evil people like Ravana and Kansa. However this is too petty a thing for Ishwar to demand His flouting of Vedic rules and take birth. When He can create, maintain, destroy entire universe and manage the Karma-cycle of each soul, why should He take birth for such minute tasks? Afterall He resides within bodies of Ravana and Kansa also and governs each act of theirs. He can easily destroy them whenever He believes is right opportunity.

4. And if someone says He needs to take birth to set right examples, this is also incorrect. Because He is already setting greater examples by maintaining us all so perfectly. Can there be greater example than management of entire universe! The devotees would understand His greatness by this itself.

He guides us all though ‘inner voice’ and exemplary role models inspired by Ishwar whose deeds further inspire us.

5. Further Ishwar is beyond restrictions of hunger, thirst, pain, pleasure, ignorance, mortal actions, results of actions, life, death. Refer Yoga Darshan 1.24. If you read stories of incarnations, you would find these alleged-incarnations to be affected by these tendencies that can affect ONLY souls and NOT Ishwar. To say that Ishwar gets subject to these mortal traits is insult of all-perfect Ishwar.

6. If someone says that Ishwar is not affected by these traits but only pretends to be affected by these to demonstrate humanness, this again is insult of Ishwar. Because Ishwar is truth Himself. He is not a drama artist and never pretends. He exhibits only what is truth alone. He leads us from pretense towards truth. (Refer Yajurveda 31.18)

7. Also if we consider that Rama or Krishna were Ishwar Himself, there is nothing great that they achieved in their lives. For Ishwar, who can create, manage and destroy entire universe, killing some petty people on a small planet earth, and that too after lots of tortures and failures, is actually a mockery of His capabilities.

8. But if we understand true meaning of Avatar, things become clear. There is Ishwar in each soul. In fact, soul is within Ishwar. When a soul removes all barriers of ignorance, it is now driven by Ishwar alone. Such a soul is practically Ishwar because it has no separate will apart from that of Ishwar. These souls are Avatars.

If we consider these people -Rama, Krishna etc – to be Ishwar-driven souls, what they achieved was amazing and among greatest examples for rest of us. They thus are benchmarks for us to model our own lives and character in lines with true worshippers of Ishwar.

9. Vedas have no place for stories of Biblical and Quranic incarnations. However if we adopt concept of incarnation as mentioned above, or even as that of Ishwar actually taking birth, it does not matter if we follow one thing. That while Bhakti of Ishwar is important, we will not shun our duties of fighting the evil in garb of worshipping the incarnation. The concept of Semitic incarnation is a very recent one. And since this concept emerged, we have got weaker and weaker. From being rulers of entire globe, we have brought ourselves down to a level where we have no proper rights in our own country. Let our Bhakti and belief in incarnation not become a roadblock to our Karma Yoga. Instead, let it become a stepping stone to even more Karma because we know Ishwar is helping.

And then, once we also become Mukta souls, the truth will automatically emerge.

10. Its a pity that we do not consolidate resources and energies to do true worship of Ishwar by following right examples of whom we worship as incarnations. That is why despite our best of noble intentions, genuine love for Supreme, we have stupid things like birth-based caste-system and gender discrimination, attacks by invaders like fanatic cults, christianization, corruption, immorality etc spread all around us.

11. True respect to Ram, Krishna, Hanuman etc would come by doing what they did – making our bodies strong, doing exercises to increase power, meditation, disciplined routine, high character, increasing knowledge, understanding our true Dharma or Vedas, fighting Ravans and Kansa all around, saving dignity of motherly-force (women) all around and establishing true Rama Rajya.

This is true worship of Ishwar and there are no shortcuts to this.

12. To those organizations and groups who vociferously defend concept of incarnation, our humble request is to set right examples by indulging in debates with Muslims and Christians, counter them actively, and spend a bulk of the billions of dollars they earn through donations at temples for defending the Dharma, working among so-called Dalits and untouchables, conversion movements, conducting massive Shuddhi programs and hence follow true examples of Ram and Krishna.

Adi Shankaracharya writes in his Paraa-Puja:

“How can we invoke or submerge (Ahwan and Visarjan) of the omnipresent Ishwar? What use is Asan or seat for One who is already holding us all? What use is water to clean feet and face of the Ishwar who is the most pure? How can we have him take bath? The entire universe is within Him, how can we put clothes on Him? How can we put Janeu or Yajnopaveet (Sacred Thread) over Him when He is beyond the division of Varnas or classes? How can we do physical worship of the one who is Unbroken, All-knowing, All-powerful, One and only One, Formless and Omnipresent?”

Q: I understand. So instead of incarnations, Ishwar/ God sends Prophets. Right?

A: The concept of Ishwar or God sending Prophets is the most silly concept to have. For example, Muslims consider that Allah is all-powerful yet believe in Prophets. Thus they imply that Allah is not capable enough to directly guide the living beings and hence has to use agents like Prophets and Angels to help Him out.

And look at the defective ways of God when he acts through Prophets. Jesus is supposed to be a Prophet and he could not help document the Bible properly. Whatever he did goes in vain because original Bible does not exist. Similarly Muhammad is alleged to be a Prophet of Allah but could not properly document Quran during his lifetime. He did not even know that his book will be called Quran. The Quran was later compiled only 20 years after his death, in most controversial manner. The oldest Quran available today is 300 years after Muhammad’s death and is said to be copy of the Quran compiled 20 years after his death. Such are the ways of those superstitious cults who believe in Prophets.

But Vedic Ishwar is truly all-Powerful and hence directly communicates with all souls instead of using agents. He revealed the Vedas at inception of humanity (refer Origin of Vedas ) and then continuously guides all living beings. He inspired us to secure Vedas – the oldest texts – in most rigorous manner. And what more, through His inner voice, He ensures that even if we do not have access to Vedas, we are still nurtured and guided by Him like a mother caring for her child.

Vedic Ishwar is within us and outside us. So He needs no third-party outsourcing agents to guide us. So ONLY such an omniscient omnipresent all-powerful caring and just Ishwar should be worshipped by us. All prophets are falsehoods and gravest insult to glory of Ishwar. Hence they should be immediately rejected by those who have any respect for Ishwar/ Allah or God.

Q: Does Ishwar not forgive sins of His devotees?

A:

1. Yes He does. But only sins of future. By being true worshippers of Ishwar, our mind gets purified and hence we do lesser and lesser sins in future. Ishwar ensures this purification process.

2. But the sins of past are never forgiven. Each act of ours, good or bad, must provide appropriate results. No record is deleted. However the results are such that they are meant only for our best benefits to progress towards ultimate bliss. This is due to His unconditional kindness.

3. Thus people who do special rituals, fastings, pilgrimage, baths in vain attempt to have their past records deleted are fooling themselves. You would thus see that fraud politicians, actors etc being bit too ‘close’ to Ishwar. Thus vulgar films start with picture of deity/ place of worship or a religious verse. Such people conduct massive religious events and visit temples, dargahs, mosques bit too often. Not only it acts as publicity stunt, they also do this as a balancing act to delete off the most disgusting sins they conduct on a regular basis.

4. But just as obesity is not cured merely by popping a pill or saying ‘Sorry’, the tendencies of sins do not get deleted instantaneously. It demands constant efforts and till that stage is reached, each sin committed would be accounted for without any deletions or account balancing.

5. In fact Ishwar does not wait to do justice. The moment we do any act- good or bad – He starts giving us the result. However tangible effects of these results are observed by us immediately or after some time depending upon the act and our own level of sensitivity. When there is a delay in sensing the results, we term it as results of a past deed. But in reality, the process was happening constantly right from the moment we conducted the deed. This is like diabetes happening continuously through each food we have eaten or exercise we have done or not or stress we took or not. But its effect may be manifested only after a period of time.

6. Further if Ishwar were to delete past records of sins, He can no more remain just. Because everyone would have tendency to conduct sins right now and then say sorry later like fraud people mentioned above. And if Ishwar listens to them, this would only motivate this foolishness of theirs even further. Even people who do not commit sins would be motivated to commit sins. Hence Ishwar being just and kind both, ensures that each and every act of ours are given the due fruits – neither less nor more but only for our benefit.

So ALL THOSE CULTS who attract people by luring them with forgiving of sins through Confession or Acceptance of Prophet (for example modern Islam and Christianity) are insulting Ishwar and fooling everyone including themselves. All sensible persons should immediately reject them.

Q: We hear that Ishwar knows whatever happend in past, is happening now and would happen in future. Thus whatever He knows, souls have to act accordingly. Hence soul is not free to act and merely is a puppet. Still soul is punished by Ishwar unjustly.

A:

This allegation is true for those cults who believe that God has written everyone’s destiny beforehand. For example many Muslims, based on fake Quran and Hadiths, believe that Allah has compiled every future event in Lohe Mehfooz already and keeps it under his throne. They thus make Allah a psychopathic dictator who created souls and then forces them to act as per His whims. He punishes some souls, lures others to do sins and illegitimately favor other souls. If such a book indeed exists, that is only insult to Almighty Ishwar. Refer God Must be Crazy!

Further when Allah knows all, why He is required to create a book (Lohe Mehfooz) that ONLY He can read? Does He fear that He will have loss of memory? Also, does the book also has written that Allah will write Lohe Mehfooz? Such a theory is childish and full of blatant loopholes.

But such imaginations are not relevant for Vedic Ishwar.

a. Past refers to what was there but is no more existing now. Future refers to what does not exist right now. But Ishwar’s knowledge is always same and uniform and true. In other words things which do not exist does not fall in domain of Ishwar’s knowledge.

Future and Past is only for souls not for Ishwar who is beyond such a limitation of time. With respect to actions of soul, one can say that Ishwar knows past, present and future, but not inherently. In other words, Ishwar knows what a soul does and what results He has to give rightfully. But neither Ishwar has to look back in past to know history nor He needs to look into future to discover what is going to happen. He is always in present and possesses true independent knowledge at all times of both actions as well as results.

We shall discuss properties of soul later, but note that soul is somewhat free in acting in present (subject to its past actions resulting in its present sanskaars or tendencies) but completely dependent on Ishwar for results of these actions. Now Ishwar ensures that these results are such that the sanskaars of soul are modified to help the soul use his limited independence in best possible manner in order to increase his limit of free will further and achieve bliss in most optimal manner. This keeps happening every moment in a continuous manner.

The entire field of Yoga is based on harnessing this law of Ishwar to best of our benefit.

Q: Is soul also Ishwar and becomes Ishwar after salvation or Moksha? If not, what is Advait?

A: We shall study nature of soul in greater detail in a later lesson. But to briefly answer, soul is not Ishwar. If souls were Ishwar, it is already Ishwar right now. Why are we then unable to manage the entire universe right now and one soul (Ishwar) keeps fighting against another soul (Ishwar) when they are one and same? If you say because of Maya or Ignorance, this means that Ishwar is also affected by Ignorance. Now this is against Vedas which clearly say that Ishwar is beyond limitations of ignorance and remains so always.

Further if I am Ishwar and unable to realize that I am Ishwar, then who is managing the universe right now? If you say that I am drop of the ocean-like ‘major Ishwar or Brahma’ who is managing the universe, then what is the guarantee that that ‘major Ishwar’ is also not affected by ignorance and sins and hence managing the universe wrongly in corrupt manner? After all that Ishwar is also me myself and I know I am ignorant right now!

This all will lead to fallacious logic which may sound good in poems and quotations, but cannot be termed logically sound.

Vedas nowhere give such a concept of soul being Ishwar and instead clearly state that soul and Ishwar are separate.

Advait refers to the Vedic concept of One and Only One Ishwar. It means that there is only One Ishwar and no more. He alone is to be worshipped.

Q: If that be so, why did Shankaracharya talk about Soul and Ishwar being same?

A: Shankaracharya was a Vedic scholar who lived during an era when atheism was getting prevalent. He countered Atheism by arguments that whatever can be proved by Atheism, can be proved even more convincingly by considering Soul to be Ishwar itself. Had he not done so, we would not have been able to safeguard Vedic wisdom. We are deeply indebted to Him for serving this great cause.

When Shankaracharya was born, already the traditions of deriving scientific knowledge from Vedas was almost non-existent. Vedas were being considered books of rituals alone. Thus even Shankaracharya did not dwell into Vedas and focussed on Vedanta, Geeta and Upanishads which were most popular during those times. He thus based his arguments on these great books and countered Atheism. He did this as per instructions of Nyaya Darshan which allow Vitanda or relatively better logic to counter a more dangerous convention in short-term. Note however that scope of Vitanda is restricted only to logical reasoning and NOT facts themselves.

Here is an example of Vitanda:
Initial Convention:
All apostates who reject Islam and propagate against it should be killed – Zakir Naik
Vitanda Logic:
From point of view of apostate, rest of the population has rejected his religion and are propagating Islam, hence they should be killed and not him.
Initial Convention:
But its a Muslim majority state. Hence its the apostate being against the entire state who should be killed and not rest of the people of the state. – Zakir Naik
Vitanda Logic:
By this logic, Muhammad must have been killed when he first propagated Islam. Because he was the only one knowing Islam and entire state did not believe in Islam.

Note that we do not imply that all people should be killed or Muhammad should have been killed. But we use these arguments ONLY to counter a stupid argument that is very prevalent among large number of ignorant people.

Same is the case with Advait arguments. Shankaracharya used these to establish existence of Ishwar and counter atheism. And after he had defeated all anti-vedic Atheist ideologies but before he could provide us more from his brilliant intellect, he died at a very young age of 32. So we wrongly consider him as believer of Soul=Ishwar.

In fact there are a large number of verses from his commentaries on Vedanta, Upanishads and Gita that hint at his being a believer of Ishwar and Soul being different. This would be a different research based discussion all together that we may take up once bulk of believers of foreign faiths of West have been brought back into the original Vedic fold in next few years.

But regardless of the intellectual debate, just imagine the wonders he could accomplish within such a short time! 25 years is the minimum time required to covered the very basics of gurukul education. And at age of 32, we have a great scholar who changed the future of our country and world! Let us all bow to his great brilliance and pray to Ishwar that He gifts us all with similar intellect.

Q: Is Ishwar Saguna or Nirguna?

A: We have explored this question in Understanding Vedic God and Lets learn Vedic Worship in detail. Please see there.

Q: Is Ishwar Raagi (full of passions and emotions) or Virakta (one who has renounced passions)

A: Ishwar is neither of them and beyond such tendencies. Because passion is for things which are not already part of us. And renunciation happens for things we possessed earlier. But Ishwar already possesses whatever is required and cannot renounce anything because He is always omnipresent.

Q: Does Ishwar have any desires?

A: Ishwar does not have the kind of desires that we see in souls. Souls desire for things they do not possess. So how can possessor of everything desire anything? And being completely blissful, He does not need to desire for even bliss. However He motivates the creation, maintenance and destruction of universe with the objective of providing happiness to souls. This is termed ‘Iskhana’ of Ishwar or purposefulness of His actions.

Those who consider that Ishwar desires worship from souls (like Zakir Naik) are actually insulting Ishwar as being self-indulging praise-loving dictator. Whatever worship we do is to improve ourselves and no way affects the Ishwar.

We shall discuss nature of our own Self subsequently.

Note: We have provided views directly from Vedas which may be different from what many of us may have been led to believe in for various reasons rising due to sidelining of Vedas. However for sake of unity we would not like to debate unnecessarily on these topics until we have addressed the foremost priority asevident from our prayers in Vedic Worship – strengthening of nation in rightful manner.

May Ishwar grant us all the wisdom to adopt the Dharma followed by our role models like Rama and Krishna. And specially encourage our own brothers and sisters who follow foreign cults full of superstitions and blind-faith to come back to their original home of Vedas. May we all unite together and make our nation the world-leader in benevolence for entire world. The only way for this is true worship of true Ishwar and may that happen very soon!

This article is an interpretation of works of Swami Dayanand Saraswati as available today.

This article is also available in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/god-vedas-hinduism-gu/

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132 COMMENTS

  1. Jesus Christ is the son of God directly from heaven
    Don’t think that he simply as a prophet
    2015 years ago God came to earth as a normal human being with blood inside the body and he sacrifice himself by hanging on cross
    Pls follow all Vedas and all upanishad
    Then only come to conclusion

  2. God is impersonal, yet everything that we see is an expansion of God……God is everywhere……just like reflection of sun is well seen in a clean mirror compared to foggy mirror….the godliness is manifested greatly in some and less in others…….those who established the godliness arebthus called gods themselves

    Nowhere in Vedas does it say that God cannot be manifest in a saakar form..
    .all it says is that the true nature of God is difficult to perceive

    It is these difficulties that makes Agniveer to ponder upon the exact nature of God and then conclude about Krishna/rama not being gods themselves

    It can be deduced from Vedas that everything is an expansion of God…..there is nothing explicitly against avatara either

    When people pray to Krishna, they pray to Brahman only, a Brahman which they believe appeared to them in a very clear version called Krishna, who also gave them bhagavad gita

    Arguing about whatgod can do or cannot do…is never going to be fruitful anyway..
    .because the true nature of God is inconceivable anyway….and u wouldn’t be making 100% accurate deductions anyway even if u have read Vedas

    Of God is what he says he is….I don’t think he expects us to conceive him fully either.
    What is probably more important is to follow the paths shown by him

    Agniveer himself agree that Krishna was a great yogi and that bhagavad gita needs to be interpreted in the light of Vedas….in truth BG has covered its messages in a much clear form than Vedas…. and seeing there is nothing explicitly against a saakar God in Vedas itself should suffice for us to believe in BG

  3. God in Hindus is a wider concept then just a symbol hence nature itself is worshiped as god. I find it extremely beautiful as a concept. Har Har Mahadev means each one of us has Mahadev within thats how Hinduism take the concept of god. Hinduism preach to worship Sun, Ganga (Water), Cow (animal), Snake, Peepal tree, Tulsi plant, Bhumi, everything that is nature. By worshiping nature we are worshiping the formless god.
    Hinduism is scientific too. Each one of has energy too which is in the form of soul and when we die the energy is gone from the body but we dont know where it goes. Hinduism say that this energy transforms and take a new body form. Looking at the concept of energy as per science energy can neither be created nor be destroyed, I am pretty convinced that it can take a new body form. Hence to me the concept of re-birth looks extremely plausible. In our schools we are not told about this energy and I dont know why. This energy is the most basic energy that works in our background and in any science class this energy should be taught first. Think of this energy it is not difficult to realize that this energy has come from Sun and every other energy form that we use to sustain our life also come sun. Be it our food, petrol or any thing. Gayatri Mantra is the highest mantra of Hindus and Gayatri Mantra is a dedication to Sun. In Vedic astrology too Sun is considered as the significator of soul.

    The concept of Moksha and God is also mathematical if looked closely. Here is blog on the same read it to ignite your minds: http://www.rockingbaba.com/blog/index.php/2015/07/31/moksha-and-god-blog-4/

    • The ruler of this earth is Satan and in everything there is evil. The Creator created Sun and how come it became God? Did Sun said worship me ?

      • Gyan Surya
        I asked this question to Sanjeev Agniveer, IIT IIM graduate. But you replied. Thanks to you.( I don’t know whether you belong to Agniveer team or not ).

        As per my understanding everything in the universe is conscious. We all know that everything animate and inanimate things are made up of atoms, molecules, compounds. An atom is made up of nucleus which consists of protons and neutrons, revolving electrons.

        If electrons are not aware, what makes them to revolve around nucleus ?

        We know Newton’s law of motion. It states unless and until an external force is exerted upon an object, it does not move . But electrons revolve around nucleus in constantly changing orbits without applying an external force on it. Why ? Because they are self aware. They revolve as per their wish.

        Why two Hydrogen atoms come together to form Helium atom ? Which force makes them to come together ? These atoms are smart and intelligent,there is mutual understanding between these two atoms, this is why they come together to form Helium atom ?
        There mutual understanding between two Hydrogen atoms and one Oxygen atom and therefore they come together to form H2O, water molecule.

        Study of Quantum Physics suggests that everything is consciousness ( chetana or chaitanya). The level of consciousness of inanimate things is less as compared to the level of consciousness of animate things.

        Please ask Sanjeev Agniveer to write an article on this concept since he is expert in both Science and Spirituality.
        Thanks.

  4. HELLO AGNIVEER GURU DON’T SEE ME AS A OBSTINATE.I AM JUST ASKING MY DOUBTS.OH AGNI! YOU PURIFIED EVERY THING WHICH ENCOUNTERED YOU JUST LIKE CLEAR AND PURIFY DOUBTS TO.GURU AGNIVEER WHO SAID U THAT THERE ONLY ONE GOD???DON’T ANSWER TO ME LIKE MY PHYSICS TEACHERS DID.WHEN I ASK STRONG DOUBTS THEY WILL ADVICE ME THAT”ATHUL DON’T BE SMART IN TEST BOOK IT IS WRITTEN SO AND YOU HAVE TO BILIEVE THAT BECAUSE IT SAID BY GREAT PEOPLE AND YOU ARE A SILLY ONE”.JUST LIKE THAT I DON’T NEED A ANSWER CONTAINING VEDIC TEXT WHICH SIMPLY PROCLAIMS THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD WITHOUT MUCH PROOFS.GURU DON’T BLAME ME OR CURSE. I ASKED THIS DOUBTS TO MY NATIVE GURU (A MUSLIM) NAMED SHAFEEK AND WHO IS A VEDIC SCHOLOR TOO BUT TO MY MISFORTUNE HE DOES’NT KNOW ANSWER.I THINK MY WEB GURU AGNIVEER CAN CLEAR IT BY GIVING ME PROOF IN NATURE WHICH SUPPORTS HOLY ONESS.ONCE AGAIN DON’T SEE ME AS A OPPOSER.

    • HELLO AGNIVEER GURU DON’T SEE ME AS A OBSTINATE.I AM JUST ASKING MY DOUBTS.OH AGNI! YOU PURIFIED EVERY THING WHICH ENCOUNTERED YOU JUST LIKE CLEAR AND PURIFY DOUBTS TOO.GURU AGNIVEER WHO SAID U THAT THERE ONLY IS ONLY ONE GOD???DON’T ANSWER TO ME LIKE MY PHYSICS TEACHERS DID.WHEN I ASK STRONG DOUBTS THEY WILL ADVICE ME THAT”ATHUL DON’T BE SMART IN TEST BOOK IT IS WRITTEN SO AND YOU HAVE TO BILIEVE THAT BECAUSE IT SAID BY GREAT PEOPLE AND YOU ARE A SILLY ONE”.JUST LIKE THAT I DON’T NEED A ANSWER CONTAINING VEDIC TEXT WHICH SIMPLY PROCLAIMS THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD WITHOUT MUCH PROOFS.GURU DON’T BLAME ME OR CURSE. I ASKED THIS DOUBTS TO MY NATIVE GURU (A MUSLIM) NAMED SHAFEEK AND WHO IS A VEDIC SCHOLOR TOO BUT TO MY MISFORTUNE HE DOES’NT KNOW ANSWER.I THINK MY WEB GURU AGNIVEER CAN CLEAR IT BY GIVING ME PROOF IN NATURE WHICH SUPPORTS HOLY ONESS.ONCE AGAIN DON’T SEE ME AS A OPPOSER.

  5. It is important to realize this fact before stating things against Lord Ram/Krishn not being God. The man who wrote Vedas and Puran and Upnishad was Ved Vyas. Yes I know Vedas came from mouth of God but Ved Vyas put them in written form. Now just that point alone we should ask the question why would he state God is only without form and then go to Puran ans say he has form and without form. I reject all historical arguments on this stating that Puran are corrupt. They are not correct. They are the word of God just as Vedas and Upnishads. It may seem that they are corrupt because Shiv Puran says Lord Shiva is the top most God then Vieshnu puran says Lord Vishnu is the top most God. How can that be? That can be because creation has happened many times and creation may happen according to Shiv Puran when Lord Shiv is the top most god or according to Vishnu puran where lord Vishnu is the top most god or Devi Puran where mata shakti is most powerful god. So all purans are correct. This is why will hear things about stories in each puran might be lightly different thus it leads to confusion or doubtfulness. This is where the whole corruption theory started. There is no corruption with Puran. If you look at how creation happens after every 100 years of Brahma then creation will start again according to what is defined in the scriptures. If one understands this then this argument is 100 times more accurate then the corruption garbage or historical arguments which are nothing less then bogus theories. Pranam

  6. First I like to say I respect many things that you guys are doing but my problem has always been that you speak ill against Lord Krishn/Ram. Many verses in the Vedas imply directly that God has form. In order for Dayanand swami to be right then many other great sants and rishis have to be wrong from Swami Vivekanand, Adi Shankracharya, Madhvacharya, Nimbarckacharya, Kripaluji, Meerabai, Gyaneshwar etc… many many more who all accept Lord Krishna Ram as poorn avatar. So just the claim you put forth alone is foolish as these sants have already proven you wrong. Taking words from Vedas or other scriptures all can be twisted very easily to justify one’s agenda. Here are verses from Vedas alone that implies that Form is associated to GOD in Vedas.

    rigved mandal 9 sukt 86 mantra 26, 27
    rigved mandal 9 sukt 82 mantra 1, 2, 3
    rigved mandal 9 sukt 96 mantra 18
    rigved mandal 1 sukt 1 mantra 4, 6, 7 (agni god)
    yajurved 1 mantra 15 (agni tanurasi)
    yajurved 5 32
    yajurved 40 17

    It is also very easy to come up with historical arguments like saying there is no historical evidence to show Ram or Krishn never existed or could have performed such great amazing things listed in Bhagwat puran or other puran. Well history alone is not like dvd that you can rewind so that you can analyse history and come to conclusion. Much of Dayanand Swami’s argument is based on such things. I bet there there is no historical evidence of who his great grand father. He himself probably didn’t even know his name. Do we have to go back to history to look for such proof?

    Just because Lord takes human form doesn’t mean he has to be born. It is only his leela to do it in such a way. He does this to glorify his devotees.

    Another thing. Everything in Gita doesnt have to be present in the Vedas in order for it to be word of God. If that has to be the case then what would be the point of Gita. Why would God repeat himself over and over. Makes no sense. Knowledge is infinite and so are the Vedas. Gita is just a continuation of the Vedas.

    The concept of God in the Gita in chapter 11 is universal. He is not biased to his creation. It doesnt matter if you are Arya Samaji, Muslim, Christian or Hindu or insect or animal etc… God loves us all. There is no greater God then this. This is why you will find people happy and sad in all religions. No one religion is the most correct path. All path leads to the one universal God. That is Bhagwan (Ishwar).

    Pranam

  7. Parmeshwar or God Almighty or Elohim (plural of Eloah) or YWHW (I AM WHO I AM) has a form and all spiritual beings including God Almighty are in spiritual bodies. A spiritual body is immortal. The last of God’s creation was Adam and Eve, mankind. Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. Genesis 5:1 This is the written account of Adam’s line. When God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says–he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited–he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other. Genesis 2:7 When God created man He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul”. God created spirits from the breath of His nostrils. But, as Enoch says (Book of Enoch): When Adon (the Lord Yeshua) came, He came with great light. Yeshua is the premordial light of this creation. Bereshith means In the beginning; bara plus shith in hebrew means “created in six”. Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. [Whereas sun, moons and stars were created on the 4th day]. God begetted (called forth or take from) Yeshua from the radiance of His glory. He was not created. There were two who created, Father and Son. Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. King Solomon says in Proverbs 30:4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, and the Name of His Son? Tell me if you know! John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

  8. @Agniveer/All Scholars
    _________And if someone says He needs to take birth to set right examples, this is also incorrect. Because He is already setting greater examples by maintaining us all so perfectly. Can there be greater example than management of entire universe! The devotees would understand His greatness by this itself._________(Part of Article)
    Can you explain this as to how universe management by God sets an example before us?
    And
    Secondly I agree God does not incarnate but as we know mostly Hindus believes Rama was God incarnation to teach us how to live as Tulsi Das Ramayan & Purans states. But it should to be noted here that Rama took birth in Treta Yug then how people of Satyagug means people born before “Treta Yug” had very noble characters without getting inspirations from any God incarnation and people of Satyayuga(Golden age) could not take benefit of God’s incarnation. God incarnation theory have many fallacies.

    • Namaste Bro TS

      Eeshvar never changes/breaks the laws. He never deviates from His path. He never stops loving someone because he/she has stopped loving Him. He gives prosperity to even those who criticize Him every time but deserve to get flourished as per their otherwise good deeds. His laws are equal for all, theists, atheists, agnostics etc. He does not favor one over another.

      Above examples cant be set if human form is attained by Him because

      He will have parents, family, friends, near and dear ones. Some will see Him directly, rest wont get any chance. Some will be eating with Him, rest will not. So majority of humanity will still be waiting for Him and He will never eat with them or talk them face to face. So incarnation of God could teach only few hundreds how to live and that too for very short time.

      ———God incarnation and people of Satyayuga(Golden age) could not take benefit of God’s incarnation——–

      1. Exactly and not only that, even all people of Tretayug would have not taken His benefit. Ram or Krishna were not that famous outside Aryavart. People living in Amazon remained untouched from Godly effect of incarnation even at the time of Ram and Krishna.

      2. Even those who were direct in touch with Krishna or Ram, could not learn the lessons.
      Arjuna married many women. Even after Geeta Upadesh, for nine days in Kurukshetra, Arjuna refused to fight Bhishma! So incarnation of God could not convince even His best disciple in Mahabharat! What was the use of incarnation then?

  9. i recommend agniveer to please read this
    http://rockmine.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-avatar-in-hinduism-reincarnation.html
    It is not so simple to just say that god does not take avatars since he is infinite he can do everything without doing nothing. A grand dad dresses up as santa and delivers gifts to his kid even though the kid realizes that its a myth once he grows up but nonetheless grandpa does it to please his kid. same way god presents himself in a form where they can understand. ‘aham brahmasmi’ cannot be a myth since god created me and god creates only holy things since he is a holy being and does only holy and right things. i am have almost infinite atoms in my body and multiply that with the infinite energy of an atom through which an atomic bomb can be made. So how can we be separate. The concept of rebirth is to attain the perfection of the soul and thus liberate from the cycle of life and death. If god truly as you say is shapeless then tell me why the mahamrityunjaya mantra is in rigveda and he is pictured as a 3 eyed yogi?!. If air is shapeless and formless it also means that it has shape and form. If its in a baloon its in the shape of a baloon if its in a vessel then its in a shape of a vessel. vishnu is another name given to shiva in rigved. so shiva=vishnu&vice versa.To attain salvation it does not matter whether you worship him as shiva, durga, ganapati(ganapati is another name of shiva in rigved lol), vishnu or whatever…devotion with righeousness is important.An atheist with right deeds attains salvation than a god worshipping terrorist. It is not just his worship that pleases him but you being in his (right)path pleases him.

    • First of all, wishing a Happy 26th January to all of you…

      Brother Gajendra

      One thing we should understand is: GOD is one but has many attributes associated with it. GOD is…
      1>>> All blissful creator — Brahma
      2>>> Omnipresent — Vishnu
      3>>> Protector of all — Narayan
      4>>> Welfare doer — Shiv
      5>>> Evil destroyer — Rudra
      6>>> Lord of all — Ganesh
      7>>> Maintains balance through attraction — Krishna
      8>>> All merciful — Ram
      9>>> All powerful — Shakti
      These all are the attributes of same almighty. If we focus on even a single attribute, we can be liberated. People focused on these attribute identify themselves with these attributes only. That’s why Agniveer says – All so called Avatars were divinely inspired humans.

      The greatness of Indian philosophies is: If we worship GOD with true devotion, sooner OR later we ourselves become GOD. Best example is: Hanuman. (हनन means to kill and मान is ego. The devotee who has perfected everything yet no ego is Hanuman.)

      Regarding Vishnu’s 10 incarnations. It seems in link with evolution theory.
      Life started in water ::: 1st incarnation is Fish
      Slowly beings migrated to land ::: 2nd incarnation is Tortoise
      Slowly amphibians became animal in reptiles and animals ::: 3rd incarnation is Boar
      The animals progressed to half humans ::: 4th incarnation is Narasimha
      Mini humans came into existence ::: 5th incarnation is a dwarf
      An uncivilized nomad person existed ::: 6th incarnation is Parashuram
      Developed modern man ::: 7th incarnation is Raam
      Man used his experience to work out some strategy ::: 8th incarnation is Krishna
      Man quit materialism and accepted spirituality ::: 9th incarnation is Buddha
      Self empowered human to eradicate evil ::: Future incarnation is Kalnki
      Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dqbfB7MO60

      Similarly, Shiv’s various incarnations are learning mechanisms. (Vishnu Avatars were milestones. Shiv Avatars are methods and they don’t die.)
      Service oriented learning — Nandishvara who is symbol of…

      • See this too. http://www.ramarajyam.org/avatars-and-evolution-1

        Similarly, Shiv’s various incarnations are learning mechanisms. (Vishnu Avatars were milestones. Shiv Avatars are methods and they don’t die.)
        Service oriented learning — Nandishvara who is symbol of service
        Visual learning — Dakshinamurty who teaches through total silence
        Practical learning — Hanuman who gave practical proof that GOD is within us
        Wisdom oriented learning — Ganesha who is symbol of wisdom
        Case study learning — Vikramaditya & Vampire (both were great devotees of Shiv)
        Student – Teacher (Q&A) learning — Kartikeya who gives knowledge this way
        Mistake dependent learning — Ashvatthama who learned by mistakes
        Knowledge preserving — Adi Shankara
        Various other incarnations teaching some methodologies

        So, in short, the Avatar concept was made to show how GOD manifests itself in various ways. Avatar concept is nothing but GOD is one & many manifestation concept.

        Yes, it is very much needed to worship on true path. A terrorist devotee is never recommended but a well wisher atheist is. It is needed to have good character too. Indian concept of heaven / hell decides based on good OR bad only. While western GOD is self centered who only judges based on belief, Indian GOD is most efficient manager who judges based on actions.

      • GIG,
        Have some objections .Correct me if i am wrong.
        Seventh Avatar – Sri Rama – The perfect civilized human (Rama with a bow & noble practices)
        Eighth Avatar – BalaRama – The human with occupational skills (Rama with the plough – agriculture is his occupation)
        Ninth – Sri Krishna – The Superhuman
        Tenth Avatar – Kalki – The apocalyptic (The one who would end this Mahayuga!)

        Buddha is not mentioned as avathara in Puranaas or Bagavatha.

      • Well Sir, we are no one to discuss who were Avatars. I only showed why Avatar concept was developed. It was made to indicate various milestones in life. I think Bhagavata is wrong if it does not count Buddha here. Buddha means resort to peace and spirituality. According to me, even that is a milestone. May be wrong.

        By mentioning link between Avatar and Evolution, my goal was not to indicate which Avatar is who but to show why the concept came. So, it is just a way to explain how GOD manifests in this world.

      • GIG,
        As per your way of thinking and as per your aim what you said is correct and i give objection only to show you that our scriptures said so. It is not a counter and not to reduce the importance of Lord Buddha please.Let us take the good from everything and elevate our self.
        Thanks for the comments

    • satyaaa….

      Your hatred for Modi and Thakrey is not justified. Do you hate Muslim ghazis that invaded our motherland and converted masses at the point of sword? Do you hate Akbar who butchered 30,000 Hindus in single day during the conquest of Chittaur fort? I have not seen your hatred towards these butchers even once. Why? Why do you hate Hindus when you dont hate their butchers? Why dont you hate the culprits of Godhra train burning?

      You can be a Muslim or atheist and still become president of India. But can you even enter Saudi Arabia after announcing publicly that you have left Islam? Just think whom you should hate more.

  10. vajra do action get result why to trust on next birth….. i dont believe in destiny but hardwork,technic and discipline coz that is hand in hand just do it and get it. i am athiest in a sense that i cudnt convince myself that there is a god and who is sustaining us. and muslim in a sense that i love my name i love my culture i love ed. i m born in this

    • satyaaa…

      ——–i dont believe in destiny but hardwork,technic and discipline coz that is hand in hand just do it and get it.———

      Thats good! I will help you build your theory from here. If you agree that every deed should result in fruit and every fruit must correspond to some deed then concept of rebirth offers you the solution but concept of one birth does not. Because one birth theorist cant explain the miseries that come from birth with many children. Some are born handicapped, some mentally challenged, some orphans, some die in womb and some at the age of 1 day/month/year. Many dont get even chance of doing and getting hand in hand because they dont come alive from the womb. Many dont get any chance to live enough, forget about hard work and discipline.

      Thus it is only theory of Karma based on rebirth that offers you the solution. Think over it and build your theory around these views, you will answer your questions in much better way than now.

  11. @vajra you have been consistently trying to include quran in discussion havent u? i hope u r not trying to transfer our discussion to another platform……I HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT I HAVE NO THEORY. but it’d be more logical if we get results in this very life coz next birth thing seems unrealistic.. . . . . . . flaw is that your GOD couldnt make action :->result hapeen in one life CONT..

  12. thats the fault of your theory.if your theory were true god would have made this flawless. . . . . . how did you convince yourself that next birth stuff is right?……plz dont ans me like you did in karma theory.if u can give me the vector answer not scalar one.

    • satyaaaaa…

      Any updates on contradictions b/w your demands (you are yet to share your theory) and Quran? BTW whom you replied? Please specify always whom you are replying.

      Which flaw you are talking about? How Quranic God’s method is flawless? Do you subscribe to Islamic view of Taqdir (destiny)? If yes then go to my previous post and try to find answers. If no then stop calling yourself a Muslim.

      BTW are you the same who thinks himself to be “atheist Muslim”? If yes then please update us on your current status. If you still hold this oxymoron as your identity, this will be my last reply to you. You either be atheist or Muslim. Be brave.

      All the best.

    • @satyaaasman
      ______l muslim is my identity. and i am proud of that.___________
      I am also proud to be Muslim but I hate those people who denigrate Great Mohamad & Allah. I am against the people who put blame on Great Mohamad that he did sex with his daughter & with a child.
      I am against those people who say Allah is just a confined entity to 7th Sky.
      I am against those people who say It is Allah who forced the Aadam children to commit incest.
      I am against those people who say this creation is new for Allah. I believe there is nothing new for Allah Because Allah is perfect & All knowing. There is nothing new for perfect & All knowing entity.

    • Dear friend Satyaaa

      Then why did you say that you have no faith? Your faith is logic and reasoning, am I right? So using logic, please offer a better theory that solves the puzzles of life than Theory of Karma. BTW you cease to be a Muslim if you doubt even single verse of Quran. And you denied heaven hell concept long ago!

      BTW if you dont believe in killing of apostates, hell to Non Muslims, ban on Non Muslims preaching in Islamic countries etc, I have no differences with you. Belief in different philosophies and friendly discussions add to the beauty of culture and is the symbol of a healthy society.

      I ask you what do you find more logical, explanation of Dharma on Agniveer or Islam as described in Quran and Hadith?

      • satyaaa…

        Even as per Quran you dont reap fruits for all deeds in one life. In fact in the absence of any freewill there is no deed in first place as per Islam. Also many deeds are forgiven without giving fruits! So your theory contradicts with conventional Quranic view point.

        Logically you still have no theory. You rather have a demand that one should get fruits for all the deeds in single life. How do you justify your demand? Why one birth theory is better than many birth theory and how?

      • @Satya
        You’re confused. First you posed like a Jehadi, then an inquisitor and now an Athiest.

        Before posting questions, first decide what you are. Agniveer doesn’t discriminate people based on thier faith until unless if you’re spreading hatred against any community be it christian, muslim or anyone. Be sincere, don’t be an Arrogant. Hopefully, you will find all the answers here. All the best.

      • i have’nt got any theory.but if i have to formulate any then i will say that results of our actions must meet in this very life.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . i dont wanna wait for afterlife result. for eg. bal thakre must be punished in this very life for anti muslim riots in bombay(i wont say mumbai).

      • Nonsense, you’re still a fanatic muslim! Don’t try to fool us. You won’t say mumbai bcoz you are proud of your colonial masters. You won’t revert to your ancestral faith becoz you’re proud of your Arab/Turkish masters who tortured your forefathers.

        I don’t know if thackrey will going to suffer in this life or afterlife. But, you will certainly for not understanding the pain of your ancestors they have gone through.

      • @shravak . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BOMBAY. . . . . . . . . . .your master bal thakre cant do anything. bombay again.

      • @satyaaasman
        Bal Thakre is not a big fish, He is just in news for his aggressive/irresponsible speech. But he is not running terrorist camp & involves in Bumb Blasts & sending terrorist in other countries to terrorize the people Like Islamic fanatic doing new a days & But we need to tackle with Pakistan & Taliban & Alkayada/Huji & other Islamic terrorist organization which is greatest danger for humanity & change the mindset of people who are supporting them like Jakir & Co. otherwise if these Islamic fanatics gets success they will make our Bharat a graveyard like Pakistan & Afghanistan & Irak which were earlier Hindu/Arya’s state region.

      • @satyaa

        you are not getting the message here. you hate thackrey bcoz he incited the violence against your fraternity. Now, what about those who have killed and tortured your ancestors? do you love them?

      • @shravak/satyaaasman
        Brother Sharvak, Satyaa hates with thakre but he love with Kasab, Afjal, Daud, Osama, alkayada, Taliban, his Arab masters.

      • @aasman:

        but if i have to formulate any then i will say that results of our actions must meet in this very life

        Theories are not formulated based on what you *like* to see. You need to take the world as given. That is your data. THEN, based on observing the world, you need to formulate a theory. Your theory should be strong enough to answer various types of questions.

        A theistic philosophy has to, for instance, answer WHY there is evil in the world. It has to answer what is the purpose of creation. It has to answer what God was doing before creation, etc., etc.

        What you are suggesting is *wishful thinking*. That doesnt constitute a theory.

      • to give the rewards of all actions in this life would never be possible… as this would be very clear because first is karma and then is its fruit.
        it most obvious that in many cases a person wont beb able to get all his fruits …

        eg. 1. suppose a person kills someone and while coming back he dies in accident .. then? how wll he be given punishment?
        2. a person commits suicide after doing something wrong or a sin.. then?
        3. a person wants to become good and wants to repent for his deeds done in young age but now he is old would he never get a chance to do good deeds again?
        (obviously there is no forgiving the sins in vedic dharma and youngers have more chance to do good deeds than old who themselves would need help)

        hence since karma is done before the fruit so it is not possible to give fruits of all the deeds in present life only hence a next birth id indeed necessary.

    • @aasman:

      Lolz man…Werent you the same genius that said:

      islam means peace. it is just hijacked by some wrong persons. fear judgement day kafiro here.

      In any case what exactly do you intend to prove with these questions? Yes, the Problem of Evil is a difficult nut to crack for ANY religion…so?

  13. imagine the situation. A was a very good man but he was poor. he needed money badly. for this he robbed a bank ,didnt hurt anyone. police couldnt trace. A did business with his money and became rich. now he gives charity. help poor people. HOW THE KARMA THEORY MANAGE ITSELF HERE?

  14. imagine the situation. A was a very good man but he was poor. he needed money badly. for this he robbed a bank ,didnt hurt anyone. police couldnt trace. now A did business with his money and became rich. now he gives charity. help poor people. HOW THE KARMA THEORY MANAGE ITSELF HERE?

  15. @vajra dawood ibrahim have been commiting sinister activities. he is doing bad karma inspite of that have been living good life(dont say he is not). how the karma theory works here. CONT.

    • ALLAH WAS NOT OMNISCIENT.

      11. “And when we said unto the angels, worship Adam, they all worshipped him except Eblis (Satan), who refused, and was puffed up with pride and became of the number of the unbelievers.” 2: 32.)

      C. ~ This indicates that the Mohammedan God was not Omniscient i.e., He was not cognizant of the three periods of time – the past, the present, and future. Had he been Omniscient, He would not have created Satan. Nor was God All-powerful, since when Satan deliberately refuse to obey Him he could do nothing against him. Now if only one infidel (Satan), could trouble God so much as to render Him helpless what will He and His votaries do when they will have to cope with millions (according to their own belief) of infidels? God increased infirmity in some and let others astray. He must have learnt such things from Satan and Satan from God.

      12. “And we said, O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the garden, and eat of the fruit thereof plentifully wherever ye will; but approach not this tee, lest ye become of the number of the transgressors. But Satan caused them to forfeit paradise, and turned them out of the state of happiness wherein they had been, whereupon we said, Get down, one of you shall be an enemy unto the other; and there shall be a dwelling place for you on earth, a provision for a season. And Adam learned words of prayer for His Lord and then came down to earth.” (2: 33 – 35.)

      C. ~ This indicates that God was not omniscient inasmuch as He one moment blesses Adam saying “Dwell thou…. In the garden” and in the next turns them out. Had He been cognizant of the future, He would not have blessed him at all? It also appears that God was powerless to punish Satan, the tempter.

      Did God plant that tree for Himself or for others? If it was for others He should not have prevented them (Adam and his wife) from tasting the fruit thereof. God could never do such things, nor could they be ever found in His book. What were the words Adam leant from God and how did Adam come…

      • Allah was not omniscient

        Excellent response. But it is only half shown. Can you post the remaining portion?
        That will give some education to terrorism a.k.a. Islam
        Thanks

    • satyaaasman

      ——-so u r saying these 3 phases creation,sustainance and dissolution are relative?—–

      It is good assumption to start with to understand philosophy. You can certainly modify it once you start thinking logically keeping aside the hatred for others.

      ———IS GOD PRESENT EVERYWHERE? IS HE SEEING US CONT.?——-

      Yes. Yes.

  16. @vajra 1.suppose i take your god’s holding concept now. . . . . doesnt it possible god has made all the natural forces like gravitation etc to holding us and he is doing nothing.. . . . . . . 2.when karma theory has its own role of giving result. what way god has to do with it? plz dont say god controls it. you know when a car company makes car and sell it. the driver has control over it. company can do nothing .

    • Satvan Aasman

      ——–doesnt it possible god has made all the natural forces like gravitation etc to holding us and he is doing nothing——–

      1. Balanced forces themselves are acting because of Him. Why should I exclude God from this system during sustenance? God of Vedas is not God of Satva Aasmaan (7th heaven) who needs to rise over to His throne after He had created 🙁 Concept of an omnipresent God rejects all such non sense.

      And BTW its not that from time 0 to T1, it is creation and then from T1 to T2 there is nothing changing. Actually creation and destruction is occurring every moment. A new table while being made is creation for humans but destruction for living beings belonging to the parent tree. Similarly as soon as you have a table, you have its decay started and this way it is in process of destruction wrt to humans but creation for termites.

      This way creation and destruction occur simultaneously under the control of God every moment.

      2. God must be ordered. Even if I agree He works and then stops then again works and so on…. in a perfect order, how does the concept of moody 7th heaven God surpass this theory?

    • cont..

      ———when karma theory has its own role of giving result. what way god has to do with it?———

      Law of Karma is like fire that burns down coal to ashes when BROUGHT near coal and enriches gold when BROUGHT near gold. But it itself does not know whom to approach and when! It must be BROUGHT in by someone wise. This wise is called Eeshvar in Vedic Dharm.

      Can I know your theory?

  17. what god is really doing in sustainance phase? aryaveer says he is just seeing,and will judge us after our act. i really dnt get it. . . . . . . . the karma theory is good but again god has no control over it. . . . . . . . dawood ibrahim clearly contradicts karma theory.

    • Namaste Satva Aasman (though I am yet to see pehla aasmaan 🙁 )

      ———what god is really doing in sustainance phase?———

      What do you do while holding something? Need some rocket science to answer? Is it not holding itself?

      ——–the karma theory is good but again god has no control over it——–

      No one can violate Karma Theory, this is God’s control. BTW do you subscribe to the theory of Taqdeer where everything happening around is caused by some Satva Aasmaan (its not you but 7th heaven 🙂 ) God?

      ———dawood ibrahim clearly contradicts karma theory.———-

      How?

    • @satyaaasman:

      atheist muslim means born in muslim family but believe in independence of mind.

      This is getting funnier by the minute…So, theist Muslims do NOT believe in independence of mind?

      Actually, you seem to be an ok guy compared to the usual lot of true Momins who visit here. Why dont you call yourself an atheist…why do you need to call yourself Muslim?

  18. You are an atheist muslim! You are in danger, boy. Do not reveal your identity because atheists are condemned to death in islam. There is no room for atheism in islam.

  19. @aryaveer i got you. so judge will take decision only after the crime has been commited. what if someone is doing crime against his son. and he is seeing it. so dont you think he should do sth at the moment to stop crime.or will take decision only after crime has been commited.

  20. you are stupid! nothing else!

    god is the supreme judge.
    he punishes for sins rewards for good.
    he cannot hold someone’s hand and stop him/her from commiting any sin..
    why don’t you understand this simple thing?
    once a crime has been commited the judge will capture the criminal and punish him appropriately… similar is the job of the supreme judge god… where is the problem???

  21. Dear Agniveerji,
    Now, what is this unreality (mithyAtva) that (you) want to
    infer (as characterizing the world)? This unreality is by no
    means non-definability as defined by the statement of the
    panchapAdikA that the word mithyA (unreal) is denoted by
    non-definability, the non-definability being of the nature of
    NOT being the substratum (adhikaraNa) of either existence or
    non-existence. What is “not being the substratum of existence
    or non-existence”?
    Is it 1) the absence of existence qualified by non-existence
    or 2) the pair of attributes of a. absolute absence of existence
    and b. absolute absence of non-existence, or 3) the property of
    the absolute absence of nonexistence during the absolute absence of
    existence, ie. being a common substratum of the attributes –
    the absolute absence of existence and the absolute absence of
    non-existence?

  22. @shabeer

    These are not Veda verses, Put Veda verse not translation, Then I will give u right translation. Please do not dream in full day If you think you can write anything on the name of Veda & we will acknowledge you. There is not a single verse in Veda in support of human worship or human name recital in God’s prayer. Go in download section of Agniveer there is Ved Sahita & pick your verse & put here for English translation & otherwise you can see Hindi translation of verse at
    http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org

  23. hi to agniveer and all his followers……………………

    i have read most of your posts and support you views…all except one………god and soul are not different
    talking about vedas i must tell you it is clearly mentioned in vedas that god and soul are one …………..but you are against this….i would like you to throw some light on how you can say they are different that means you know gods attributes……………..mention every attribute which differentiates god from soul…………..just by saying anything doesnt mean you know everything …………………….think this way you are a born hindu thats y you are saying this ………..suppose in nxt birth u take birth as a christian and your views will be different ………….u knw only what is being told to you………..being a hindu i’ll have to follow karma unless i will be punished ..but being a christian or muslim ……….i’ll not think about karma…………..u are saying you are a soul so that means when there was no one agniveer was there with his followers …………and you yourself decides in which religion i should take birth…………………………………………….come out of this crap…………………you are like munna bhai of gandhi giri…………………….u r in illusion ………and it will last as long as there will be ignorance about the self………..get well soon

    tat tvam asi absolute equality of ‘tat’, the Ultimate Reality, Brahman, and ‘tvam’, the individual self, soul, jiva.
    tat is the whole and tavam is the part………………….part has the same attributes as whole…………………

    may bhagwan give you the kowledge……………………………….take your own words god is one, formless imageless…….omnipresent , in everything and everything has to be in god ……….then god has to be nature and we are part of nature……………………………

    • Namaste be a knower

      ————– it is clearly mentioned in vedas that god and soul are one————-

      Kindly share with us the Mantras regarding same

      ———-mention every attribute which differentiates god from soul———-

      Aatma is different from PARAMatma

      ———-just by saying anything doesnt mean you know everything———–

      Nobody here ever claimed that he/she knows everything. All of us here share our thoughts without claiming those as ultimate and unchangeable. Many of us are Adwaitian and many are Traitian. But instead of calling others’ understanding as crap, we try to rectify our own understanding and help each other doing same through logical discussions. I think you too have this right but have no exclusivity over truth like everyone here.

      ———-think this way you are a born hindu thats y you are saying this ………..suppose in nxt birth u take birth as a christian and your views will be different ———-

      whats that you want to convey through this?

      ————–being a hindu i’ll have to follow karma unless i will be punished ..but being a christian or muslim ……….i’ll not think about karma—————

      No. This is the sing of blind belief. I will follow Karma because it looks logical to me. But what about you? Do you really believe that a Muslim or a Christian or a Vedanti should follow his/her birth religion alone?

      ————you yourself decides in which religion i should take birth ————

      No. Our Karma decide

      ————come out of this crap————-

      If Agniveer is not different from God, should I believe that you are abusing God? And what is crap BTW, is it different from God or…?

      ———–you are like munna bhai of gandhi giri————

      How does it matter even if he is Gabbar Singh? 🙂 After all Gabbar Singh is also God ?

      ————u r in illusion………and it will last as long as there will be ignorance about the self………..get well soon————

      Who is in illusion? God? God has ignorance about self? Cant help God get well soon 🙁 Can you?

      ————tat tvam asi absolute equality of ‘tat’, the Ultimate Reality, Brahman, and ‘tvam’, the individual self, soul, jiva.————

      I would request you to read Swami Dayanand’s explanation of this Shloka in Satyarth Prakash. In short, in this Shloka, Tat is used for soul and not for God.

      ————tat is the whole and tavam is the part————-

      You cant have divisions of indivisible Eeshvar. So nothing like “part of Him” should appear as per my understanding. And as you wrote part has same attributes as whole,

      ———–part has the same attributes as whole———-

      So why differences and contradictions occur in the world, within self? Due to ignorance? Of whom? Is it also an entity like God or His property? If entity, Adwaita (absolutely one entity) no more holds and if property, then God cant achieve Mukti ever because ignorance being property will never leave the possessor. Also ignorance as well as knowledge are two opposite traits which cant be possessed by God at a time.

      ———–may bhagwan give you the kowledge————

      Asking Bhagwan to give knowledge to Himself 😉

      ————–god is one, formless imageless…….omnipresent , in everything and everything has to be in god————

      We completely agree!

      ————-then god has to be nature and we are part of nature————–

      Why? Aakaash pervades all as well as everything lives in it. Does it make everything Shoonya or Aakash? Vyaapya (something being pervaded) and Vyaapak (something pervading other) have to be different from each other philosophically.

    • Namaste be a knower

      Thanks for your support dear friend. Would give my views on your disagreements

      ————– it is clearly mentioned in vedas that god and soul are one————-

      Kindly share with us the Mantras regarding same

      ———-mention every attribute which differentiates god from soul———-

      Aatma is different from PARAMatma

      ———-just by saying anything doesnt mean you know everything———–

      Nobody here ever claimed that he/she knows everything. All of us here share our thoughts without claiming those as ultimate and unchangeable. Many of us are Adwaitian and many are Traitian. But instead of calling others’ understanding as crap, we try to rectify our own understanding and help each other doing same through logical discussions. I think you too have this right but have no exclusivity over truth like everyone here.

      ———-think this way you are a born hindu thats y you are saying this ………..suppose in nxt birth u take birth as a christian and your views will be different ———-

      whats that you want to convey through this?

      ————–being a hindu i’ll have to follow karma unless i will be punished ..but being a christian or muslim ……….i’ll not think about karma—————

      No. This is the sign of blind belief. I will follow Karma because it looks logical to me. But what about you? Do you really believe that a Muslim or a Christian or a Vedanti should follow his/her birth religion alone?

      ————you yourself decides in which religion i should take birth ————

      No. Our Karma decide and Eeshvar manages the conditions for the same.

      ————come out of this crap————-

      If Agniveer is not different from God, should I believe that you are abusing God? And what is crap BTW, is it different from God or…?

      ———–you are like munna bhai of gandhi giri————

      How does it matter even if he is Gabbar Singh? 🙂 After all Gabbar Singh is also God ?

      ————u r in illusion………and it will last as long as there will be ignorance about the self………..get well soon————

      Who is in illusion? God? God has ignorance about self? Cant help God get well soon 🙁 Can you?

      ————tat tvam asi absolute equality of ‘tat’, the Ultimate Reality, Brahman, and ‘tvam’, the individual self, soul, jiva.————

      I would request you to read Swami Dayanand’s explanation of this Shloka in Satyarth Prakash. In short, in this Shloka, Tat is used for soul and not for God.

      ————tat is the whole and tavam is the part————-

      You cant have divisions of indivisible Eeshvar. So nothing like “part of Him” should appear as per my understanding. And as you wrote part has same attributes as whole,

      ———–part has the same attributes as whole———-

      So why differences and contradictions occur in the world, within self? Due to ignorance? Of whom? Is it also an entity like God or His property? If entity, Adwaita (absolutely one entity) no more holds and if property, then God cant achieve Mukti ever because ignorance being property will never leave the possessor. Also ignorance as well as knowledge are two opposite traits which cant be possessed by God at a time.

      ———–may bhagwan give you the kowledge————

      Interesting! Bhagwan asking Bhagwan to give knowledge to Bhagwan 😉

      ————–god is one, formless imageless…….omnipresent , in everything and everything has to be in god————

      Agreed.

      ————-then god has to be nature and we are part of nature————–

      Why? Aakaash pervades all as well as everything lives in it. Does it make everything Shoonya or Aakash? Vyaapya (something being pervaded) and Vyaapak (something pervading other) have to be different from each other philosophically

      Regards

      • @be a knower

        And interestingly, these three quotes from your writing contradict with each other, pick any of the two, they contradict mutually

        ———–part has the same attributes as whole———-

        ————–god is one, formless imageless…….omnipresent—————

        ————-then god has to be nature and we are part of nature————–

        If part has same attributes as that of God then nature and us should have got traits like God, but we dont. Nature does have physical form but God does not.

    • Namaste @be a knower

      I also hold the non-dual philosophy in high regard, but i am sorry to say the way you present it’s case is not very promising.

      first of all — being a knower itself is a surrender to duality from a non-dual perspective you would rather be a witness

      Traitvad, Dwaitwad are perfect philosophies if you indeed want to be a knower ..so why the resistance to such great philosophies that can help you become a knower 🙂 ?

      Dhanaywad

      • 3 entities are observable today. But let us assume that in reality it is one single entity – Brahma – that has taken 3 different forms – God, soul and Nature. And tomorrow maybe all the three will become One again. But why should this be a one time exercise, The same Brahma can again split into three. So even if Brahma is singular for some time, again there are 3 entities. And when 3 entities are formed – one entity is definitely inert, another is all-intelligent and one is semi-intelligent. So there is no contradiction among the theory of Traitvaad and Advait.

        It is merely representing the same concept as per different system definitions. Today soul and Ishwar are different. They may not be tomorrow. But then day after tomorrow they would again be different because this difference cannot be a one-off event. So from present state Ishwar and Soul are different. When you get to Mukti, then you would be in position to claim that Ishwar and Soul are same (if you become Ishwar by then).

        However it would be foolhardy for anyone to think that he or she is Supreme Lord right now even though he or she cannot even control the bladder pressure, forget about controlling the world!

        So even if all becomes One eventually, the way to that is to continue increasing one’s knowledge and reducing ignorance.

      • Namaste Brother Raja

        very well put .Unfortunately, neo advaita and its blatant disregard to the the traditional approach has done more harm than good to the spiritual aspirant of our times.

        The four fold qualifications are not emphasized and as a result an unprepared candidate exposed to such a philosophy is blocks his/her own spiritual progress.

        I hope that Traditional Advaita acharyas do something about it before it is too late 🙁

    • @be a knower

      >>God and soul are not different.

      It depends on what you take for God in your statement. If Brahman is what you refer by God then your statement can be accepted. However if you take Ishwar as God then your statement is false.

      Agniveer site is for a special purpose and not for discussing the philosophies.

      However as a fellow student of advaitha, I can only point to this

      “There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage and none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the Absolute Truth”.

      So please stop Evangelical and do sadhana,lest you (we) will fall like the person in famous story “jagam midhya gajam midhya”.

      regards

  24. Dear Agniveer, First of all i do not agree with the title of this post i believe that there is only one parampita Parmatmaa as described in the Vedas, adding ‘Vedic’ adjective gives a feeling as if some other Gods also exist (further it gives a feeling like a popleela going around today and called ‘Vedic Astrology’). Though i believe in Vedic concept but many times when i see things around i get trapped into a whirlpool of qestions and start feeling that i’m missing the practical aspects of the Vedas. I think in your future posts you’ll provide some more insight aith practical perspective. My request is that please explain things in practical manner taking situations around you and explain the relevance of Vedas. i’ll just quote a few examples (i had asked a few questions earlier also).
    – Each living being is having various phases in life and the karmas are not always independent, a child is being fed with meat and eggs by his parents, how is he responsible for this.
    – how are karmas are judged and reward and punishment provided can you please explain with some example.
    – Yogdarshan says ‘Tada Drishtu Swaroopewasthanam’ meaning after the state of chitt vriddhi niriodh is achieved the yogis state is one settled in the Ishwar (Drishtah), here Ishwar is referred to as drishta, further Swamiji has explained that Parmatma, Jeev and Prakriti are independent as far as karmas are concerned : All these give me a feeling that Ishwar has created the laws according to which our karmas are judged and results provided, Ishwar does not go individual by individual and provides the results of the karmas.
    – Why Ishwar being creator of everything created things which are prohibited in Vedas or tendancies which go against the Vedas?
    – One more which i had asked you earlier also. ‘AUM’ is a name by which we recognize the protector properties of Ishwar, but then who is HE protecting us from? Yesterday there was a news that a lady threw her daughter out of hospital window and the poor child succumbed to injuries now what was that the result of that poor infant who had not performed any karma( at least conciousily), why she was not protected?

    I am a veruy confused person there is something in me that just keeps me attached to the Vedas(faithfully) but at the same time so many questions arise in my mind when i try to test the theories against the things happening around and i found contradictions. I somewhere deeply feel that what is known about the Vedas in the contemporary world is just a tip of the icebearg the real meaning is yet to be unearthed and we will require many more Dayanands to reach the true meaning of the Vedas.

    • Namaste

      Many of the questions would be covered subsequently. This is only 3rd lesson of the series. But kindly note that we refer as Vedic God only because all cults have their own versions of God and we want to highlight what Vedas say about Him. The aim is more to convey the right essence in most easy and interesting format for maximum people rather than be semantically correct always.

      For truly technical and completely authentic understanding we recommend going straight to scriptures referred many of which have been made available through downloads section and links page.

      We dont promise to answer all questions. But if we could help gain even a slightly better clarity, we would be thankful to Ishwar to make our efforts worthwhile.

      Dhanyavad
      Admin

    • @Siddharth : I understand what you say as if feel the same way sometimes
      I would suggest a Kirya which you may try.its just an advice.
      Its based on ” Find the Doubter and all the doubts would ceaze to exist”–Ramanna maharishi
      I hope you do meditate– when you do it next and any kind of query arises in you just make a conscious effort to find out where exactly is the query being raised, try to find its source in you, No doubt a very difficult process but may be it helps you.
      Just pray to Eshwar that he keeps on Guiding us to the truth.
      Om Tat Sat Brahmh Arpan Astu.

  25. There are too many objections.

    The soul is not an individual, or has an identity as such. There are many objections to this. The more selfless an individual, who acts according to morals soon, becomes sinless. Realizes that there is life in everything and everywhere this supreme force exist in all so becomes more selfless and acts according to morals.

    Now again object Nature is made both of positive, negative, and somewhere in between elements. So when there is great negativeness(evil) there will come a balance of great goodness(positiveness). In simple Hindu cosmology first came creation then destruction. The origin does not every change, so creation created its own destruction, as those evil forces create their own counter force which is seen as avtar.

    Now people who learn the Ramayana learn to learn the ideals and worship Lord Ram so they have qualities such as his. Who was perfect in every moral way. No Ramayana is nothing negative, and in Hindu culture Hindu education this is not in the education, but Vedas, and brahmachary. So we should live in the world without arts, without our histories, or our past. This will the fallacy you speak as these things guide people what is morality. As we refer to the opening of the Ramayan is there any person in history who has all the good qualities. This is an important question? Next question there are historical ramification to nine Avtars of Lord Vishnu which include human evolution which science seems to copy.

    Third objection nature has said inherited qualities of nature Satvic, Tamsic, and Rajsic. These are three modes in which everyone acts as qualities of nature. It simple reaction as stimuli(action) and reaction forming a web of events, but in this when one only learns to control their senses one can free from these scenarios. No there is no individual choice as he acts according to the qualities he posses like simple chemistry as things act according to their properties. Until again a person learns to control senses and frees from reaction.

    Lots of things are based on translation. Sanskrit is not well understood as it was during the past. Many words their exact meanings still eludes us today as we do not live in same environment and speak the language as spoken in past.

  26. Arya ji…

    In bhagwad gita Lord Krishna showed Arjun his real form!!

    and even shri pradupada of iskon talks about sri krishna as god….?

    plz help me out here a little…

    Dhanyawad…

    • Namaste
      With due respect to intent to ISKCON and Prabhupadaji, unfortunately their insistence is not right because
      1. They do not emulate examples of Kirshna and fight against Adharma and merely recite name. No one from ISKCON ever debated anyone or took part in any social or political movement. They do not make their body strong and warrior like. But Sri Krishna spent his whole life only in this. So they are doing wrong worship of Krishna.

      2. As told by Agniveerji, Gita has to be interpreted as per Vedas only. Prabhupada and ISKCON people never study Vedas. That is why they strongly condemn even Shankaracharya in same way as Shankaracharya condemns idol worshippers in their commentaries of Gita. Now tell me, whom do we follow: Shankaracharya, Madhavacharya, Ramanuja or Prabhupada in Gita? They all condemn each other’s ideology.

      3. Except Vedas, there is no guarantee of any book being free from adulterations. Mahabharat is full of tremendous adulterations. Same may be case with Gita. After all why would Krishna speak 700 shlokas just before start of war and talk about things which are not meangingful in war like how to meditate, what to eat etc. A smart person will only motivate for war. So first few chapters of Gita look ok and rest may be mixing. Even if it is not, we have to make Vedas the first evidence.

      4. If Krishna showed his real form of God in Gita, then Vedas must be wrong because Vedas clearly say that God never changes and never takes birth. Just think what was so special about Arjuna that Krishna showed form only to him and no one else, even when Arjun was a weak character person as per Mahabharat who could not even control his senses. He married so many girls when he went for Brahmacharya and meditation. Bhima would have been a better deserving candidate. And why does God not show such form to other people born after Arjun? Is this not injustice of God?

      So this is not true. Krishna was a great person. We should follow his footsteps. You know ISKCON gets millions of dolllars from each temple but never spent a penny for cause of protection of Dharma and nation. Neither they took part in Rama Janmabhoomi nor they debate against Zakir Naik. They are most capable of doing all this, but they only keep chanting. Is this what Krishna would have done if he was born today?

      I dont hate them. But it is true that all such organizations become like cults or companies and have their own agenda. Agniveerji please delete my comment if it is offensive.

      But we should follow only truth and not be pressurized by big names against us.

      Dhanyavad

      • Its not like that Iskon people talk about vedanta philosophy and they do chanting no doubt….but they also making million dollars theme park in banglore in india that will make children play in religious surroundings and make them learn bhagwad gita and vedas…

        The followers of ISKON says that Pradupada was the last prophet from god…

        I Know that Understanding hinduism is the hardest as its not 1000 page book but a very vast concept..that includes everything as ur way of life…..

        thanku

      • You yourself say: What is more important – theme park or fighting threats? Do you think theme park can create role models for next generation. This is against principles of Vedas. Only right examples and concrete actions can bring one towards truth. One may create such parks, but only after more urgent things have been sorted out.

        I again ask you – what would Krishna have done today if he was here? And why ISKCON is afraid of following Kshatriya dharma of Krishna? Do you know that in name of donations, millions of dollars from India is siphoned from India through ISKCON that never come back to us? Listen to lectures of Rajeev Dikshit of Bharat Swabhiman by Baba Ramdevji. He says that each temple of ISKCON makes us lose more Swadeshi money than biggest multinationals in India? Imagine, Krishna was a Swadeshi pioneer and what his followers are doing. Baba Ramdevji also condemns this bitterly and how Radha-Krishna devotion is exploited to weaken the nation.

        ISKCON does not believe in Vedanta. If you read ISKCON, they have condemned Vedanta in most bitter language. They believe that God has a physical body and we live in that. Prabhupadaji was a devotee but not scholar of Vedas. Or else how could ISKCON term him as Prophet of God and create large statues of him which are worshipped in same manner as Ishwar. Visit the ISCKON center in Mayapuri. Is this not insult of Ishwar?

        You can see Rajiv Diskhit video of Bharat Swabhiman on youtube at :
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh8QIs9rpD0

      • Namaste Brother,

        We have provided solely the lessons of the Vedas. We also believe that understanding Hinduism is easiest and not hardest. Because the essence is important here – accepting truth and rejecting falsehood. Rest of the details flow automatically from here.

        We have tried to present the truth to best of our understanding as well as our understanding of works of greatest sages. If there are flaws in what we have presented, kindly highlight it so that we can correct them to be more truthful.

        And if you find differences with any other belief system, we leave it upon you to explore and analyze logically to deduce who is more correct in which aspect. We are strongly against believing in something merely because a prophet or guru or saint said so. Because this is blind faith. We instead would like you to rationally evaluate Vedas as well as beliefs of those saints, question the potentially flawed areas and then judge yourself what is true.

        But let us never ever believe in anything merely because an Agniveer or a Muhammad or a Prabhupada or any person on earth , for that matter, has claimed so. Ishwar alone is all-perfect. All the rest of us are grossly defective!

        Dhanyavad
        Admin

    • @sanatanaakki
      Namaste Brother,
      Shri Krishna is our role model. We salute his greatness and try to be like him by practicing what he practiced, i.e. worshipping of One formless Eeshvar, fighting against Adharma, defending Dharma etc. According to Mahabharat, Shri Krishna was a great devotee of Eeshvar. He used to meditate regularly and he never let any day go on which he did not worship Eeshvar, not even in war or any journey! Now you tell me Brother, should we follow what Krishna followed or should we follow what any person, who is not Krishna tells us to follow? Why to go against Vedas and Mahabharat and interpret Gita against Vedas and against Shri Krishna himself?

      If we believe Shri Krishna to be God, it is against Vedas. Brother, our Dharma has no place for blind belief. Just think, can anyone argue on this issue of Eeshvar incarnating? What are the answers to the questions asked in the article? When Eeshvar is perfect and unchangeable, why should we believe in the concept of Eeshvar getting confined within some boundaries and experiencing worldly happiness and sorrow? Anyone who calls it and everything happening in the world as Maaya or will of Eeshvar is actually fooling others and himself. He can not answer the simple question that what was the need of creating all? When everything is His Leela, what is the meaning of Dharm Raksha? What is Dharm? Why are we all here to defend our Sanatan Dharm?

      Finally, I would request you to follow Vedas and not any prophet because you would have understood by now the side effects of believing in some prophets and specially “last prophet”. This concept is the genesis of a new cult and causes hatred among people by dividing them further.

      Lets worship the Only Eeshvar, who was the master of all when the word Krishna did not even exist! Lets worship the God whom Shri Krishna himself worshipped.

  27. Agniveer Ji

    Sadhuvaad ! Sadhuvaad!

    You make it so lucid, interesting, logical and enlightening ..can’t wait to read the next one in the series.

    The first Bhajan is fantabulous ..am listening it for the third time as i type

    May Ishwar multiply your wisdom manifolds and bless you with a long life

  28. Don’t have words to express the level of Gratitude for all our Brothers and Sisters of The Agniveer for guiding us to the the Ultimate Truth – vedas

      • @Agniveer Ji
        Vedic God is Personal or impersonal? Please explain. What you understand by personal or impersonal God?

      • Thanks Ronak for putting those links up.

        It might be considered Shirk in the Vedas to not only worship idols or images or believe in many Gods, but also believe in angels or prophets. Vedas do not want the person to not only worship the one and only God, Omkar, Om, highest state of consciousness and non-else, but the Vedas do not want you to put people on pedestals and create people like prophets and angels that some how God needs. The grace that the Vedas teach and promote which is Dharam is the individual person like you or me that show the compassion to help others. And that grace or compassion is extended to the Rishi that teaches others how he or she reached enlightenment so others can reproduced the experience.

      • He works as per unchangeable laws. Does not forgive or punish. Only acts every moment in best interest of souls. He does not send angels, does not send revelations to solve personal problems of a person etc.

      • @Agniveer Agni
        still Concept of God personal or impersonal is not cleared. Kindly explain in more details. If God does not send revelation what are Veda? Are Veda not revelations? Why Veda does not reveal in the heart of Rishi in Vedic Sanskrit at this time? Has God stopped to inspire human being from Vedic Mantra?

      • The concept of God in the Vedic way in looking at getting information about God is very different from the Abrahamic view of the world.

        What we have is the Rishis vs the prophet concept. First we must define what they are.

        Rishi: Is someone who has reached enlightenment by practicing meditation/Yoga and connects directly with God. A person who not only got some message, but personally experienced God, the highest state of consciousness. During that time, God does not talk to the Rishi, nor does God give that person words or letters or anything like that. Instead the Rishi literally experiences God on senses and feelings and views and intellectual stimulation to the max. After that experience the person now becomes a Rishi.

        After the experience the Rishi generally finds other Rishis that have also had the enlightenment experience or experienced the highest state of consciousness, God. Than as a group they exchange notes and produce written material based on a common set of shared experiences.

        Key here is anyone can become a Rishi. It is reproducible. It is not limited to any one person. That is the beauty of God. God offers this to everyone with the simple tools/techniques called Yoga/Meditation. No one has authority to experience or hear some so called message from God for themselves only. God is the great equalizer, meaning anyone can equally experience that great God, highest state of consciousness.

        Prophet: One a specific person that is supposedly chosen by god for a specific time can only be a prophet. They hear that message by their god and they spread that message to everyone else. It can not replica-table, people must just take that person’s word and that is it. No exchanging of notes or experience because it is not able to be done again. It called history centrism. Basically god is prejudice and does not make that so called word available to everyone.

        I hope that helps you out.

      • Dear krishnarao
        Thanks for clarification. I have another question as you have written drawbacks of concept of prophet, do not you think God incarnation concept also wrong? Why do you think God incarnation concept also wrong? I want your own views on this.

      • “Thanks for clarification. I have another question as you have written drawbacks of concept of prophet, do not you think God incarnation concept also wrong? Why do you think God incarnation concept also wrong? I want your own views on this.”

        – Yes God incarnation is also inaccurate. I do not support any of that nonsense like god incarnation, prophets, son of god, god man, or any of that garbage. Every human has the ability to directly connect with God. People don’t need some intermediary to get to God. And that also means a prophet. The that people either need to pray to an intermediary or believe in some person like a prophet to believe in God is ridiculous. The great thing about Rishi is anyone can become one. ANd it is reproducible by people who do the techniques taught by the Rishis.

        God example, Buddha was Rishi. He taught his followers how to reach enlightenment the way he did. It’s call Vipassana meditation. Krishna taught his followers how to achieve what he has achieved, Yoga/meditation.

      • “But in God incarnation concept there is no intermediary then why do you believe it is wrong? When I talked to person who believe in God incarnation concept, he said to me God takes incarnation to teach the people how to live. If God does not incarnate how can people learn without preceptor. By taking incarnation God set before us right example. How can you say God incarnation concept wrong?”

        This sounds like a question and an answer you have done for your own self. It sounds like you have answered your own question. And it sounds like you believe in God incarnation. I have already answered this question clearly. I said I do not believe godmen, prophets, son of god, God incarnations, he-man, or any of that nonsense. As I said before I believe in the Rishi.

        I don’t think you have fully understood what a Rishi even after I explained it clearly and in a drawn out post. To rephrase again, a Rishi is someone who has experience the highest state of consciousness, God. And that is a direct experience. It isn’t through an intermediary like an angel or some holy ghost. It is a direct experience. And they do it by meditating on the One God by using meditation techniques like Yoga (And I’m not talking about the stuff that people do in yoga studios. I’m talking about real Yoga that includes meditation.)

        Next you seem to not understand what makes life, life. According to the Vedas and Gita, it talks about the Atman. Basically the Atman is what is commonly said as the soul or spirit. But that is actually not accurate. Vedas and the Gita do not talk about a soul or spirit, they are Western concepts. The Atman is what Dharmic people believe in. And basically it is in all living beings, it is what gives that flesh and blood or living being life (IT is what gives life, life). The Atman based on the living being is in different states. And most important, the Atman is a piece of the infinite highest consciousness, God.

        That is why we Dharmic people say everyone has the divinity within them. People just need to realize it. And once we do meditation and release the Atman inside us through Yoga, and release everyone has the Atman in them, we reach enlightenment and connect directly to the higher state of consciousness, God. And that connection to the higher state of consciousness, God, is called Moksha.

        Additional points.There is the Rishi, someone who has become self-released/Enlightened, and there is the Atman of a former Rishi that had already reached Moksha that comes back and help others reach enlightenment.
        1. So first you have to reach enlightenment. 2. The Atman goes to Moksha 3. The Atman comes back to help others reach Moksha by teaching them. 4. That same Atman goes back to Moksha. 5. This cycle is repeated until all Atmans reach Moksha.

        Since there are infinite number of Atmans that have not reached Moksha, The enlighten Atmans will constantly be coming back to help there brother and sisters reach Moksha. The point is there is no need for prophet or anything. Just recognize that the person who call some kind of great prophet is not a prophet at all. All he is just a person like you and me. Don’t put anyone on a pedestal. For they have Atman just like you and that is it. And if they experienced God, or makes a claim some angel came and talked to them, it is their duty to tell you how they did that so you can reproduce it. If they can not tell you, they are not following the scientific method and they are most likely liars or have some brain illness.

      • @krishnarao
        To show fallacy in Prophet concept you have said there is no need of intermediary. But in God incarnation concept there is no intermediary then why do you believe it is wrong? When I talked to person who believe in God incarnation concept, he said to me God takes incarnation to teach the people how to live. If God does not incarnate how can people learn without preceptor. By taking incarnation God set before us right example. How can you say God incarnation concept wrong?

      • “But in God incarnation concept there is no intermediary then why do you believe it is wrong? When I talked to person who believe in God incarnation concept, he said to me God takes incarnation to teach the people how to live. If God does not incarnate how can people learn without preceptor. By taking incarnation God set before us right example. How can you say God incarnation concept wrong?”

        This sounds like a question and an answer you have done for your own self. It sounds like you have answered your own question. And it sounds like you believe in God incarnation. I have already answered this question clearly. I said I do not believe godmen, prophets, son of god, God incarnations, he-man, or any of that nonsense. As I said before I believe in the Rishi.

        I don’t think you have fully understood what a Rishi even after I explained it clearly and in a drawn out post. To rephrase again, a Rishi is someone who has experience the highest state of consciousness, God. And that is a direct experience. It isn’t through an intermediary like an angel or some holy ghost. It is a direct experience. And they do it by meditating on the One God by using meditation techniques like Yoga (And I’m not talking about the stuff that people do in yoga studios. I’m talking about real Yoga that includes meditation.)

      • Continued

        Next you seem to not understand what makes life, life. According to the Vedas and Gita, it talks about the Atman. Basically the Atman is what is commonly said as the soul or spirit. But that is actually not accurate. Vedas and the Gita do not talk about a soul or spirit, they are Western concepts. The Atman is what Dharmic people believe in. And basically it is in all living beings, it is what gives that flesh and blood or living being life (IT is what gives life, life). The Atman based on the living being is in different states. And most important, the Atman is a piece of the infinite highest consciousness, God.

        That is why we Dharmic people say everyone has the divinity within them. People just need to realize it. And once we do meditation and release the Atman inside us through Yoga, and release everyone has the Atman in them, we reach enlightenment and connect directly to the higher state of consciousness, God. And that connection to the higher state of consciousness, God, is called Moksha.

        Additional points.There is the Rishi, someone who has become self-released/Enlightened, and there is the Atman of a former Rishi that had already reached Moksha that comes back and help others reach enlightenment.
        1. So first you have to reach enlightenment. 2. The Atman goes to Moksha 3. The Atman comes back to help others reach Moksha by teaching them. 4. That same Atman goes back to Moksha. 5. This cycle is repeated until all Atmans reach Moksha.

      • Continued2

        Since there are infinite number of Atmans that have not reached Moksha, The enlighten Atmans will constantly be coming back to help there brother and sisters reach Moksha. The point is there is no need for prophet or anything. Just recognize that the person who call some kind of great prophet is not a prophet at all. All he is just a person like you and me. Don’t put anyone on a pedestal. For they have Atman just like you and that is it. And if they experienced God, or makes a claim some angel came and talked to them, it is their duty to tell you how they did that so you can reproduce it. If they can not tell you, they are not following the scientific method and they are most likely liars or have some brain illness.

      • God gives all Atman’s equal opportunity. Every Atman once they realize it can reach Moksha. But they must work on it themselves. ANd if they don’t do it this life time, they do it the next life time or the time after or the time after that and so on. Moksha is the ultimate goal, where you merge back with the Omkar, God. Going to heaven and enjoying some rivers of wine or having sex like some dog with 72+ women on and on is ridiculous and disgusting. Especially if it is forever with seemlessly to the end of time. The Goal is Moksha not some penthouse playhouse.

      • @ agniveer agni
        This is the best description of ishwara, god or allah. You seems to be a person of high intellect.
        Just reflect why should god punish? Why should he create an apple and forbid one to eat it? Why should he choose someone specific for revelations? Who told god is formless or not? Why should everyone believe whatever that who said? Did god came to say this religion is good and that one is bad or this one is better than that one? Whatever happens here is due to our own karma, accept it or no karma is the universal law of the cosmos. The mechanic of the universe is based on karma.

      • Namaste Slave of non,

        Love the name you used. This is the best article Agniveer has. It is the foundation on God and from there we can build. And the fact that God has no form, and we don’t pray to some cubed object or kiss black stones, but meditate on the one God is truth. Because we look at God as God is, the formless being that is everywhere.

      • Ahamad Hassan Ji,
        That is true there is no image, form, shape, idol of Vedic God. Also there is no place for prophet or angle or any kind of God’s messenger in Vedas. Because Vedic God does not need any assistance to perform his/her duty.

        Finally read this article which might end your quest for understanding Vedic God.
        http://agniveer.com/god-hinduism/

        We all should be very thankful to Agniveerji for his extraordinary work. We should implement vedic wisdom in our lives and spread the same to the world for the sake of humanity.

        Dhanyavaad

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