The Vedic God

Vedic God

This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/vedic-god-hi/ and Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/6029/the-vedic-god-gu/

Note: By ‘God’ we imply Ishwar or the Supreme Entity and NOT ‘Devata’. ‘Devata’ is a different term but often wrongly considered to mean ‘Supreme Entity’.

While Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’, any entity – living or non-living – that helps us or is useful for us is termed ‘Devata’. But that does not mean every entity is Ishwar and should be worshipped. To avoid confusion, we shall use the term ‘Ishwar’ in this article.

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)

Q: How many Ishwar are there in Vedas? We heard there are huge number of Ishwar in Vedas.

A: You have heard from wrong sources. Vedas clearly specify that there is One and only One Ishwar. And there is no mantra in Vedas that can be interpreted to imply multiple Ishwars.

Not only this, Vedas also refuse existence of any angel or Prophet or incarnation who is necessarily required to act as an agent between You and Ishwar.

To give a rough analogy:

Ishwar of Vedas = God of Christianity minus the concept of Trinity minus the necessity to surrender to Jesus

Ishwar of Vedas = Allah of Islam minus the necessity to accept Muhammad as final Prophet.

In other words, If someone says first part of Shahada : lâ ilâha illallâh (There is no other God except one and only Allah) but rejects the second part : Muḥammadur rasûlullâh (Muhammad is his messenger), that is close to concept of Vedic God.

In Islam, it is Shirk or greatest sin to worship anything except Allah. If you take this concept further and also refuse to accept any Muhammad or Gabriel as necessary to be remembered apart from Allah, you are avoiding Shirk as per Vedas.

Q: What about the various Gods or Devatas mentioned in Vedas? What about 33 crore Gods?

A:

1. As mentioned earlier, Devata refers to entities that are useful for us. But nowhere it is mentioned in Vedas that we should worship these entities. Of course, Ishwar is the Devata or Devatas and hence called ‘Mahadeva’. He alone is to be worshipped.

2. The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman very clearly. These include –
8 Vasus (Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Moon, Sun, Stars/ Planets) that form components of universe where we live,
10 Life Forces in our body or Prana (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) and 1 Soul called Rudra,
12 Aditya or months of year,
1 Vidyut or Electromagnetic force that is of tremendous use to us
1 Yajna or constant noble selfless deeds done by humans

The master of these 33 Devatas is the Mahadeva or Ishwar who alone is to be worshipped as per 14th Kanda of Shatpath Brahman.

The concept of 33 Devatas is a great research based subject in itself and requires in-depth study for proper understanding. However, it has been made very clear in all Vedic texts that they are NOT Ishwar and hence NOT to be worshipped.

3. Ishwar has huge number of properties. Ignorant people wrongly consider these properties of Ishwar to be different Ishwars. For example, in today’s newspaper there were 2 headlines – One referred to Dr Singh and other to Manmohan. That does not mean India has two Prime Ministers!

4. To dispel such confusions, there are several mantras in Vedas that clearly state that there is One and Only One Ishwar without any assistants, agents, prophets or juniors to liaison between Him and Us. For example:

Yajurveda 40.1:
This entire world is embedded within and managed by the One and Only One Ishwar. Never dare do any injustice or desire riches through unjust means. Instead follow the righteous path and enjoy His bliss. After all He alone is source of all bliss!

Rigveda 10.48.1:
Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.

Rigveda 10.48.5
Ishwar enlightens the entire world. He is undefeated and undying. He is the creator of the world. All souls should seek bliss through seeking knowledge and acting thereupon. They should never shun the friendship of Ishwar.

Rigveda 10.49.1
Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.

Yajurveda 13.4
There is One and only One Creator and Maintainer of the entire world. He alone is sustaining the earth, sky and other heavenly bodies. He is Bliss Himself! He alone deserves to be worshipped by us.

Atharvaveda 13.4.16-21
He is neither two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor six, nor seven, nor eight, nor nine, nor ten. He is, on contrary, One and Only One. There is no Ishwar except Him. All devatas reside within Him and are controlled by Him. So He alone should be worshipped, none else.

Atharvaveda 10.7.38
Ishwar alone is greatest and worth being worshipped. He is the source of all knowledge and activities.

Yajurveda 32.11
Ishwar resides at each point in universe. No space is devoid of Him. He is self-sustaining and does not need help of any agent, angel, prophet or incarnation to perform His duties. The soul which is able to realize this One and only One Ishwar achieves Him and enjoys unconditional ultimate bliss or Moksha.

There are innumerable such mantras in Vedas that explain One and Only One Ishwar and instructs us to worship Him directly without invoking any other entity – Incarnation, Prophet, Angel or Agent.

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Q: How do you establish existence of Ishwar?

A: Through direct and indirect evidences.

Q: But direct evidence of Ishwar cannot be possible. How do you then establish Ishwar?

A:

1. Evidence means the clear knowledge determined through stimuli received from sense organs. But note that sense organs capture the properties and not the ’cause of these properties’.

For example, when you read this article, you do not capture existence of Agniveer, but only certain images coming on your screen that you interpret into meaningful knowledge. And then you conclude that there has to be some writer of this article and claim that you have evidence of existence of Agniveer. So this is ‘indirect evidence’ even though it appears ‘direct’.

Similarly, this whole creation that we observe via its properties through sense organs imply existence of Ishwar.

2. When you can link a sensory input directly to an entity, you claim to have ‘direct evidence’. For example when you eat a mango, you feel the property of sweetness and associate it with the mango that you consumed. What is important is that you can associate such ‘direct evidence’ ONLY with specific sense organ that was used to observe that property.

Thus in previous example, you cannot have ‘direct evidence’ of mango through ‘ears’ but only through ‘tongue’ or ‘nose’ or ‘eyes’.

Also in reality this is also ‘indirect evidence’ though we term it ‘direct evidence’ for sake of simplicity.

Now since Ishwar is the most subtle entity existing, it is impossible to have ‘direct evidence’ of Ishwar through coarse sense organs like eyes, nose, tongue, skin or ears. For example we cannot see subatomic particles even through most powerful microscopes, we cannot hear ultrasonic sound, we cannot feel the touch of each individual molecule.

In other words, Ishwar is impossible to be evidenced through these coarse and weak sense organs just as mango cannot be sensed through ears or subatomic particles cannot be sensed through any sense organ for that matter.

3. The only organ that can sense Ishwar is mind or Mana. When mind is fully controlled and devoid of involuntary disturbances (like thousands of thoughts coming all the time) and adequate knowledge about properties of Ishwar has been obtained through study and practice, Ishwar can be evidenced directly through intellect in same manner as a mango is evidenced through its taste.

This is the goal of life and this is what a Yogi attempts to do through all the various methods of mind control that include cultivating traits like non-violence, truth-seeking, compassion, seeking bliss for all, high moral character, fighting against injustice, unity among people, etc etc.

4. In a way we get hints of direct evidence of Ishwar everyday in our life. When we try to indulge in any wrong act like theft, cheating, brutality, we hear that faint ‘inner voice’ in form of fear, shame, doubt etc. And when we indulge in noble deeds like helping others, blessing a child etc, we again hear that ‘inner voice’ in form of fearlessless, sense of satisfaction, enthusiasm and feeling of bliss.

This ‘inner voice’ is from Ishwar. Often we reduce its audibility by trying to silence it through loud DJ Music of stupid tendencies around. But then we all at times feel this ‘inner voice’ getting louder now and then, when things are relatively silent.

5. And when the soul purifies itself from mental disturbances and gets away from the DJ club, it is able to directly evidence itself as well as Ishwar.

Hence both through direct and indirect evidence, Ishwar is established as clearly as other entities witnessed by us.

Q: Where does Ishwar live?

A:

1. Ishwar is omnipresent and hence resides everywhere. Had Ishwar been living at a particular place like some special sky or on some special throne, He could not have been omniscient, omnipotent, manager of all, creator of all and destructor of all. You cannot perform actions at a place where you are not present.

2. If you say that Ishwar manages the world from one place just like sun illuminates earth from far off or you watch TV through remote control, this is defective logic. Because sun is able to illuminate the earth or remote control is able to operate the TV only through radiation waves that travel through the interim space. Just because we are unable to see them we call it remote control. In reality there is nothing like a remote control. Thus the very fact that Ishwar is able to manage something implies that it is present there to manage it.

3. Further, if Ishwar is omnipotent, why would He be scared to restrict Himself to a small space. This makes Ishwar limited. Christians say God is on 4th sky and Muslims say that Allah is on 7th sky. And their followers keep fighting each other to prove themselves right. Is it that God and Allah decided to live in separate skies so that they also do not start fighting like their angry followers?

In reality these are childish talks. When Ishwar is All-Powerful and controls entire universe, there is no reason why He would be scared to limit himself to a small part of universe. And if He is, he cannot be termed All-Powerful.

Vedic God

Q: Does it mean Ishwar is also in dirty things like alcohol, urine, excreta?

A:

1. The entire creation is within Ishwar. Because Ishwar is also outside these things but these things do not exist outside Ishwar. So all things in world are pervaded by Ishwar. To give a very rough analogy, we are within Ishwar in similar manner as a pice of cloth within tub of water. There is water within, outside and all around the cloth. There is no portion of cloth which is not wet with water but there is water beyond the cloth as well.

2. Anything is dirty or good for us depending upon our duty towards it. The same set of atoms that form the tasty mango we eat is so lovely for us. But when the atoms disintegrate, interact with other chemicals and form excreta, that becomes dirty for us. But in essence all these are merely different combinations of particles of nature. Since we have a mission on this earth, we analyze each thing with regards to the mission and accept some/ reject rest. What we reject is dirty or trash for us and what we accept is good for us. But for God, such duty does not exist and hence nothing is dirty for Him. On contrary, His duty is different from ours – to help us achieve bliss in just manner – and hence nothing in His entire creation is untouchable for Him.

3. If you look from another analogy, Ishwar is not like a pampered social worker who would prefer to plan remotely in his air-conditioned office but would desist from visiting the slums where actual social work has to be done. He, on contrary, exists to manage the most dirty of the places for our benefit.

4. And since He alone is most perfect, despite He being everywhere and everything being within Him, He is separate and different from these things.

Q: Is Ishwar Kind and Just?

A: Yes. He is the epitome of kindness and justice.

Q: But these are opposite traits. Kindness means to forgive a criminal. And justice means giving punishment to criminal. How can both exist at same time?

A: Kindness and Justice are basically one and same. Because both serve the same purpose.

1. Kindness does not mean forgiving a criminal. Because if that be done, several innocent people would become victims. Thus unless justice is meted out to a criminal, one cannot be kind to innocents. It will also be not justice to the criminal because he would not be prevented from further crimes.

For example, if a dacoit is forgiven, he would harm several innocent people. And if he is imprisoned, it would not only prevent harm to innocents but also allow him opportunity to improve himself and not do further crimes. So in justice alone lies kindness for one and all.

2. In reality, kindness refers to the purpose of Ishwar and justice to the process. When Ishwar punishes a criminal, He does it to prevent the criminal from doing further crimes. And he also prevents innocent people from getting punished for no offense of theirs. Thus the entire purpose of justice is kindness to all.

3. As per Vedas, and observation, the source of sorrow is ignorance which causes one to do wrong acts called crimes. So when a soul does such wrong acts, Ishwar restricts his freedom to do crimes and allows him opportunities to remove his ignorance and remove sorrow.

4. Mere saying sorry is not sufficient to receive pardon of Ishwar. The source of sin or crimes is ignorance and until that is removed, the soul would continue to get rightful punishments or rewards for its actions every moment throughout several births and deaths. And the purpose of all this justice is His kindness towards the soul to gift it with ultimate bliss.

Q: Does that mean, Ishwar will never pardon my sins? Islam or Christianity are better. There, if I confess or say sorry, all my past records are deleted and I am given fresh opportunity.

A:

1. Ishwar does pardon your sins. His pardon lies in the just results of your actions that He provides and not in deleting your past records.

2. If He were to delete your past records, He would be doing greatest injustice and brutality to you. Because in this case, He has allowed you to be promoted to next class even when you have not gained the competence to pass the present class. And in process he is doing injustice to others also who interact with you.

3. Pardoning means providing opportunity to improve your competence and not giving you 100% when you deserved a zero. This is exactly what Ishwar does. And remember that improving competence does not happen in one moment or through one word of ‘Sorry’. It demands dedicated practice and efforts over a period of time. Only lazy people seek shortcuts like trying to get 100% without even studying the course.

4. Unfortunately, those who attract people to their religion by saying that God will forgive their sins are fooling themselves and people. Suppose someone has diabetes. Does it get treated merely by saying sorry? When a physical disease takes much more than a sorry to be treated, how can mind – the most complex thing known to humanity – be treated by a sorry?

5. Actually these ideologies have a blatant flaw – they believe in one life and do not believe in rebirth. So they want to create artificial hurry formula to attract people. And scare them to Hell of they do not agree to them. We have already covered the loopholes of One Life theory in God must be crazy!

6. Vedic philosophy is much more natural, amenable to logic and reasonable. Neither is there a Hell where you would be thrown to burn forever by an Ishwar who is as loving as Mother, nor would He debar you from opportunities to actually raise your competence through efforts and achieve what you truly deserve. After all what is more satisfying:

a. Rank 1 through a fake mark sheet when we know that actually we had got zero, or

b. A proud Rank 1 through hard work and burning midnight oil, when we know that we did the best we could to become masters of the subject!

So in vedas, there are no shortcuts or longcuts to success. There is only the right cut! And the success is much more satisfying than what any illusionary and illusive shortcut can be imagined to provide!

Q: Is Ishwar with form or formless?

A: He is formless as per Vedas and commonsense.

1. He cannot be omnipresent if He has form. Because form implies existence of boundary. And hence He should not exist beyond the boundary if He has form.

2. Form can be seen only if Ishwar is coarse. Because any object finer than what can reflect light waves cannot be seen. Now Vedas clearly define Ishwar as the most finest, without gaps and uniform everywhere. (Refer Yajurveda 40.8 for example). Hence He cannot have form.

3. If Ishwar has a form, it means that someone created His form. This is not possible. If you say that He himself made His form, it means He was formless earlier.

4. If you say that Ishwar is both formless and with form, it is not possible because both are contradictory.

5. If you say that He takes divine forms at times, kindly specify what divine means. Say Ishwar took divine form of a man. Now how will you define boundary of Ishwar atoms and non-Ishwar atoms. Further since He is present everywhere with same density (uniformity), how we distinguish between man-Ishwar and rest of world. And if Ishwar is same everywhere, how are we seeing the boundary?

6. What we see as human body is actually continuous exchange of matter and energy with rest of the world. It is impossible to distinguish each atom as part of human body or rest of the world. So it will be impossible to segregate even body of man-Ishwar. For example, will the spit, urine, sweat and other excreta from man-Ishwar also be divine?

7. In Vedas there is no concept of Ishwar being with form. Further there is nothing that Ishwar cannot do without form that He must assume a form.

8. What we normally consider as divine Ishwar forms – for example people like Ram and Krishna – were actually divinely inspired. Remember, we talked about ‘inner voice’ of Ishwar? These legends were epitome of Ishwar worship and purity of mind. And hence for normal people, they were Ishwar themselves. However Vedas prohibit worship of anyone except Ishwar. Thus, these persons should instead be emulated (their examples be followed in our own real lives) to offer our gratitude to them. This hero-followership is as per Vedas and explained in The power of Now! – Know Vedas.

9. Had Ishwar taken form and worship of these forms been the recipe for salvation, Vedas would have detailed description on this topic. But Vedas do not even hint at such concepts.

Q: Does it mean all these temples and worship of Ram, Krishna, Durga, Lakshmi wrong?

A: Take example of a pious mother living in a remote village. Her son gets bitten by snake. She rushes to local Tantrik for Jhaad Phoonk in an attempt to save life of her child. Would you call her wrong or right?

The bulk of Ishwar worshippers today, be it Hindu, Muslim, Christian or whatever are in same state. Their intentions are genuine and worth greatest respect. But out of ignorance, they adopt wrong practices of worshipping Ishwar. This is obvious from the fact that hardly anyone even knows about the Vedas, even though, at least the Hindus agree that Vedas are supreme.

The right way to show our gratitude to great legends of past should be by imbibing their virtues and doing noble deeds accordingly. For example, we see Ravans all around in form of corruption, terrorism, immorality etc. If we can unite to counter these in rightful manner, that would be true glorification of Ram. Same with Krishna, Durga, Hanuman etc.

I have been a fan of Hanumanji throughout my life. My way of his glorification has been preservation of my moral character and putting efforts for a strong and healthy body that serves the society. What point is in worshipping Hanuman with weak body and irritable stomach yet consuming heavy laddus!

While the motive behind all these modes of worship is worth greatest respect and we humbly bow to the purity of true devotees of any cult, it is our wish to see all devotees to adopt the same methods of worship that Ram or Krishna adopted in their own lives!

Q: Is Ishwar Omnipotent or All-Powerful?

A:

Yes, He is omnipotent. But that does not mean He can do whatever He wants. Doing whatever one may want is sign of indiscipline. On contrary, Ishwar is most disciplined. Omnipotence means that Ishwar does not need help of any other entity to conduct His duties – creation, management, destruction of universe. He is self-sufficient to conduct His duties.

But He would act only as per His duties. For example, He will not kill Himself to create another Ishwar. He cannot make Himself an idiot. He cannot do theft or dacoity etc.

Q: Does Ishwar has a beginning?

A:

Ishwar is without any beginning and without any end. He was always present and will always remain. Further His properties remain same at all times.

Soul and Nature are two other beginningless and endless entities.

Q: What does Ishwar want?

A: Ishwar wants bliss for all souls and wants them to achieve this bliss through deserving efforts purely on basis of merit.

Q: Should we worship Ishwar or not? Why? After all He never forgives!

A: Ishwar should be worshipped and He alone should be worshipped.

It is true that by worship of Ishwar, you will not receive any shortcut pass certificate when you have actually failed. Only lazy and cheaters desire such unscrupulous means to success.

The benefits of worship of Ishwar are different:

a. By worship of Ishwar one is able to understand Ishwar and His creation better.

b. By worship, one is able to better understand His properties and adopt those in his own life.

c. By worship, one is able to hear ‘inner voice’ better and get constant clearer guidance from Him.

d. By worship, one eradicates ignorance, gains strength and is able to withstand toughest challenges in life with confidence and aplomb.

e. Ultimately, one is able to remove ignorance completely and achieve Moksha or salvation with ultimate bliss.

Please note that worship does not mean some mechanical recitations or blankness of mind. It is a proactive approach to imbibe wisdom through actions, knowledge and contemplation.

We shall discuss this in detail subsequently. For now, you can refer to: How to worship?

Q: When Ishwar does not have limbs and sense organs, how does He conduct His actions?

A: He does not need coarse organs for his actions that happen at most microscopic level. He does so through His inherent powers. He sees without eyes because his eyes are present at every points in space, He does not have legs, but is fastest, He does not have ears but listens to everything, He knows everything but is beyond complete cognizance of everybody. This shloka comes in Upanishad. Ishopanishad also describes this in detail.

Q: Does Ishwar know His limits?

A: Ishwar knows everything. This means that He knows whatever is truth. Since Ishwar is limitless, He knows Himself as limitless. It would render Him ignorant if He tries to know His limits when none exist.

Q: Is Ishwar Saguna or Nirguna?

A: Both. Ishwar is Saguna if you refer to properties like Kindness, Just, Creator, Maintainer etc. But He is Nirguna, if you refer to properties that He does not possess – like dumbness, senselessness, anger, cheating, birth, death etc. Its only a semantic difference.

Q: Please summarize major properties of Ishwar as per Vedas.

A: His properties are infinite and cannot be expressed in words. But here are some major properties:

– He exists

– He is animate

– He is source of all bliss and happiness

– He is formless

– He is unchangeable

– He is all-powerful

– He is just

– He is kind

– He is unborn

– He never dies

– He is infinite

– He is omnipresent

– He has no defects

– He has no beginning and no end either in time or space

– He is uncomparable

– He maintains entire universe

– He creates entire universe

– He knows everything

– He never deteriorates and remains perfect always

– He is fearless

– He is pure

– He has no agents and establishes direct relationship with all souls.

He alone deserves to be worshipped without invoking anyone else.

This alone is the path to bliss and removal of all miseries!

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Now enjoy a beautiful song summarizing some of the properties of Ishwar:

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        • Islam Is Great says

          But you wrote

          >>>>Q: What about the various Gods or Devatas mentioned in Vedas? What about 33 crore Gods?

          A:

          1. As mentioned earlier, Devata refers to entities that are useful for us. But nowhere it is mentioned in Vedas that we should worship these entities. Of course, Ishwar is the Devata or Devatas and hence called ‘Mahadeva’. He alone is to be worshipped.

          2. The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman very clearly. These include –
          8 Vasus (Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Moon, Sun, Stars/ Planets) that form components of universe where we live,
          10 Life Forces in our body or Prana (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) and 1 Soul called Rudra,
          12 Aditya or months of year,
          1 Vidyut or Electromagnetic force that is of tremendous use to us
          1 Yajna or constant noble selfless deeds done by humans

          The master of these 33 Devatas is the Mahadeva or Ishwar who alone is to be worshipped as per 14th Kanda of Shatpath Brahman.<<<<

          then who is fire? what is the name of fire in vedas?

          • Arya says

            Agni means “the one who enlightens”. If context is of physical enlightening, Agni will mean physical fire there. If context is of spiritual enlightening, Agni will mean Eeshvar.

            Eeshvar has been called as our Mother, Father etc in Vedas for His properties like creation, care and love for us. But it does not mean that our mother is Eeshvar! Rather it was the word “Mata” which meant caring and loving! And thus, whoever cares you and loves you like mother, can be called as Mother. Similar way, anything, which is enlightening your soul through knowledge and love, be it friend, scholar, mother, father, brother, sister, or Eeshvar, will be called as Agni.

            Hope it helps.

          • Dr. Navalkele says

            Agni is not the term used for the Fire emerging out from furnace or from the stove which you physically see with your eyes and also sense the heat , these are the consequences of it .
            Agni is the basic entity i.e the (transition) energy provided to the atomic & subatomic
            entities – the building blocks of the materials- by the GOD during the process of design-
            developments and formation /construction of the materials which we visually see/sense.
            Hence in a veague term we call GOD as agni.

            From the word Mahadevata , if somebody tries to draw the physical meaning out of it, can say the mahadevata can also be non -living entity. But he is being the basis of all of the Devata’s hence
            can be called mavadevata and also it means the most “propkari” – the profound giver.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @Islamisgreat

            Fire is called tapas which is different from agni which is different from surya !!

            welcome to the world of subtle differences :)

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @IslamisGreat

            you’d be surprised to know that fire itself is called by different names based on the objectives it serves from the human perspective!..it may be called pavaka, vahni, anala depending on the kind of fire it is !

            Agni is the supreme source of whatever illumines the universe

          • Islam Is Great says

            Islam —- World’s Greatest Religion !

            bismillah

            Islam (Arabic: الإسلام; al-’islām (help·info)) is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure. The word Islam means “submission”, or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic: الله, Allāh).[1] An adherent of Islam is known as a Muslim, meaning “one who submits (to God)”.[2][3] There are between 1.2 billion to 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world after Christianity.[4]

            Muslims believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad, God’s final prophet, and regard the Qur’an and the Sunnah (words and deeds of Muhammad) as the fundamental sources of Islam.[5] They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Jews and Christians distorted the revelations God gave to these prophets by either altering the text, introducing a false interpretation, or both.[6]

            Islam includes many religious practices. Adherents are generally required to observe the Five Pillars of Islam, which are five duties that unite Muslims into a community.[7] In addition to the Five Pillars, Islamic law (sharia) has developed a tradition of rulings that touch on virtually all aspects of life and society. This tradition encompasses everything from practical matters like dietary laws and banking to warfare.[8]

            Almost all Muslims belong to one of two major denominations, the Sunni (85%) and Shi’a (15%). The schism developed in the late 7th century following disagreements over the religious and political leadership of the Muslim community. Islam is the predominant religion throughout the Middle East, as well as in parts of Africa and Asia. Large communities are also found in China, the Balkan Peninsula in Eastern Europe and Russia. There are also large Muslim immigrant communities in other parts of the world such as Western Europe. About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries.[9]

      • Safiya Ahamad says

        @Agniveer/ Other Brother
        I am a Muslim girl visiting this website since last one year & reading the comments. WE believe Allah is above the heaven but as per Hindusim God is omnipresent. But this statement of Agniveer in artcile is not clear to me. please clarify this more in details.
        ____ If you say that Ishwar manages the world from one place just like sun illuminates earth from far off or you watch TV through remote control, this is defective logic. Because sun is able to illuminate the earth or remote control is able to operate the TV only through radiation waves that travel through the interim space. Just because we are unable to see them we call it remote control. In reality there is nothing like a remote control. Thus the very fact that Ishwar is able to manage something implies that it is present there to manage it._____ (Para Taken from Article)

        • KalBhairav says

          @Safiya:

          Let me offer my thoughts. The issue of material cause of the universe in Hinduism comes of two forms:
          (a)Transformative material cause and (b)Transfigurative material cause. Dvaita believes in God being only the efficient cause of the universe. Prakriti is the material cause. Prakriti is not God BUT, Prakriti is completely dependent on God for its existence and action. Also, there are quotes which suggest that God himself entered the sun, moon, eye [all of which are made out of Prakriti] to guide them. So, in this sense, God is omnipresent. This is transformative material cause. That is Prakriti itself is actually transformed.

          Advaita believes in God being both the efficient AND material cause of the universe. The standard example of this is that of mistaking the rope for a snake in the dark. Now, what is the material cause of the perceived snake? It is the rope + our ignorance. So, in this case, the material cause of the world is Brahman + Maya. So, here, actual transformation of Brahman doesnt occur. Brahman only appears as manifold. But in essence Brahman always was the substratum of our experiences. So, here, the material cause is transfigurative.

          In both cases, Brahman is omnipresent.

          Hope this clarifies the issue to some extent. Other thoughts welcome!

    • Jay says

      Because Agni is an apsect of God understadable by human mind. Creator sustainer and liberator.
      Thats why worshipping Agni is a moral repsonsibility just like we should respect our mother, we should worship God.

    • Jay says

      Agni is an aspect of God understandble by human mind.

      33 Koti of devatas has been described even in Skand Puran Narad Sutanu samvaad Matrika Ghyan.

      • Islam Is Great says

        Yajurveda 40.1:
        This entire world is embedded within and managed by the One and Only One Ishwar. Never dare do any injustice or desire riches through unjust means. Instead follow the righteous path and enjoy His bliss. After all He alone is source of all bliss!

        Rigveda 10.48.1:
        Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.

        Rigveda 10.48.5
        Ishwar enlightens the entire world. He is undefeated and undying. He is the creator of the world. All souls should seek bliss through seeking knowledge and acting thereupon. They should never shun the friendship of Ishwar.

        Rigveda 10.49.1
        Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.

        Yajurveda 13.4
        There is One and only One Creator and Maintainer of the entire world. He alone is sustaining the earth, sky and other heavenly bodies. He is Bliss Himself! He alone deserves to be worshipped by us.

        Atharvaveda 13.4.16-21
        He is neither two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor six, nor seven, nor eight, nor nine, nor ten. He is, on contrary, One and Only One. There is no Ishwar except Him. All devatas reside within Him and are controlled by Him. So He alone should be worshipped, none else.
        But agniveer said ISWAR has to be worshipped along

        Atharvaveda 10.7.38
        Ishwar alone is greatest and worth being worshipped. He is the source of all knowledge and activities.

        Yajurveda 32.11
        Ishwar resides at each point in universe. No space is devoid of Him. He is self-sustaining and does not need help of any agent, angel, prophet or incarnation to perform His duties. The soul which is able to realize this One and only One Ishwar achieves Him and enjoys unconditional ultimate bliss or Moksha.

      • Sanjay says

        Not everything in the Vedas should be considered religious, some maybe properties. As one does not read a science book and expect any reference of god, the Vedas were used for practical education as India historically were the richest, most educated, most powerful and country in history. Since the Vedas are said to contain all knowledge, knowledge of fire its properties would be also contained.Except for a few verse that speak of god, there is no other place where in the Vedas this arise. Like they are various plant listed in Vedas including properties and uses.

        This makes one good point Vedas are not prophetic religions. They believe in self respect one can know of god.

          • says

            Namaste Satya,

            is lekh mein advait ko sahi dhang na to samjha gaya hai na samjhaya gaya hai :(
            advait ka artha nishkarmana hona kadapi nahi hai – ho bhi nahi sakta jab ki advaita vedanti ke liye gita ka updesh shirodharya ho

            isha 6,7 ko padhein to ek arth nikalta hai, jaane to doosra :)

            advait par aarop bhi galat lagaye gaye hain :( ..dakshin ke raja hi islam ke aatank se khud ko bachate rahe jahaan advait ka samman hota tha ..uttar mein kya dasha hui ye sabhi jaante hain – kya uske liye vedon ko doshi maana jaye?

            kripaya advait ko samajhne ki koshis karein ..agar dosharapan uddeshya hai to jaari rahiye

          • Satya says

            @Indian Agnostic/Agniveer
            I think there should be a debate on this. Because this site is running on name of Agniveerfans. Agniveer or writer should clarify his stand on article. Please, you do help to amend/correct this article by putting your refutations/disagreement on points mentioned in article. If you are true there may wrong massage by writer of article. Please do not take my word in wrong way it just for understanding the concept & find out truth.
            http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/adwait/

          • says

            Namaste Satya

            I think Agniveer has taken up a much bigger responsibility of spreading Vedas and countering frauds and fanatics than to debate on non issues. Disputes of Advaita and Traita are purely philosophical, sorting out which should come at the lowest level in one’s priority list, especially when some cults are trying tooth and nail to destroy the very existence of Hindus.

            Agniveer are responsible only for what they publish and not for what is published in their name or their fans’ name anywhere in the world.

          • Satya says

            @Vajra
            Ok, its true Agniveer already have taken bigger responsibility than such a non-issue matter. Leave the Agniveer, but student of Vedic school like You, IA, KB & others can help to rectify the content of Article. Because I think this site “Agniveerfans” very supporting to spread message of Veda. They have written many good/logical articles.

          • says

            Our views regarding Advaita is summarized in http://agniveer.com/5090/fountainhead-philosophies-vedas/.

            But do note that we are not in a position to provide final answers. They have to be answered yourself with blessings of Supreme. We merely help seek the right questions.

            We appreciate Agniveerfans for some really useful articles specially on nationalism. And we respect their right to even differ from us so far the intent is noble.

            We would keenly observe any discussions you have on this to enhance our own learnings.
            Dhanyavad

  1. Logic_seeker says

    Dear Agniveer ! I have two questions.The 1st one is “From which source the concept of “Idol-worship” has entered in Hinduism ? & the 2nd one is”As Vedas never permits Idol-worship so why Hindus still do Idol-worship?

    • Rajesh says

      Bhai logic seeker,
      1. The source of idolworship is our Agyan and murkhata of jainism and buddhism.before these schools there were not idol.
      2. Same answer Agyan i.e due to neglecting vedas for getting shortcut in adhyatm.

    • Arya says

      @Logic_seeker
      Brother, idol worship is the result of ignorance, which never demands any source. Ignorance comes when people start ignoring Vedas and try to establish their own agenda for fame and luxuries. You can see idol worship being practiced in all so called religions like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. If everybody continues practicing worship of one formless Eeshvar, no cult, no Guru, no Matha, no prophet can be established. So, greedy people, for wealth and fame, start preaching such anti Vedic doctrines in the name of Vedas and Old Rishis or God himself. This is how Puranas, Bible, Quran etc came into existence! Puranas were written much later than Rishi Vyas, but people wrote anything which suited their agenda and presented it in the name of Rishi Vyas. You would find thousands of contradictions, errors, vulgarity in Puranas because they were written to start new cults, which needed the criticism of the already existing cults. Interestingly, you would find Shlokas both in favour and against idol worship in Puranas!

      Vedas prohibit many more things like flesh eating, telling lies, vulgarity, etc, but Hindus do it. Vedas provide us the absolute bench mark of morality and knowledge, its up to us, how much we can align ourselves towards Vedas. Vedas are perfect, its up to us, how we can tend towards perfection from imperfection.

      Dhanyawad

  2. Sandeep says

    The Sanatan Dharma becomes more and more prominent in lights of modern physics, astrophysics, biology. Many eminent scientists are accepting the principle of Veda and Upanishads. Scientists expressing doubt on many theories propagated by Islam and Christian. Even mythology of Hindus tells deep story when one judge it from different angle not literally. Like the famous ocean churning story between demons and demigods. It only need clear thinking. Islam and Christian lost their validity in modern world as it can not give peace, unity among all caste, race, people. By forcing or torturing it could not be achieved. Thus Islam and Christian are facing so many ‘????’ marks by sensible seekers.

  3. Vivek Bhaarteeya says

    Would you please explain the 33 types of devatas. As you told The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. It means there are some devatas which lie in the category of Earth, please give some names of these devatas of Earth category. Actually, I was in impression that there are total 33 devatas which can be categorized in 5 classes.
    With regards
    Vivek Bhaarteeya

    • Arya says

      @Vivek
      Brother, you were right that there are 33 devatas which can be categorized into 5 classes. These five classes may further be divided into corresponding subclasses and then the total of 33 subclasses have been said as Koti due to their different properties. So we can say that there are 33 Koti devatas with one devata in each koti!

    • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

      Its so unfortunate the people who not even the basic knowledge of samskrit Grammar start analyzing things. Agni without an anuswar (:) would translate into Ishwar as only then it be the object (e.g. as in the first mantra of rig Veda) and anywhere with an Anuswar (:) would be otherwise.
      Its so unfortunate people call in for debated who don’t even know the grammar other language

      the mantra which where it has been quoted that SDS has skipped the translation even there it does not mean Ishwar. Agni is followed by Ardha swar “Sa” which means after viched(opp of sandhi) it would be “Agne:” + whatever follows
      i.e Agne: here does not refer to ishwar.

      (eg nama: + te becmoes namaste, it has ardha swar “Sa”)

      NB. Request for all sandhi and Viched refer to Panni grammar as the basics of understanding veda.

      Veda were revealed in the Minds of the Rishis, so the speech is not always in the first person. If the prayer is being made to god “please dont be angered at us” does it mean God says that i am capable of being angry.
      Similar explanation goes with other citing also.

      even though i can see a lot of effort has been put into compiling this article, but unfortunately without proper knowledge to understand the veda all of your effort is in vain.

      I am amazed to see that you could not see something that is staring in your face “Agne” and “Agne:”

      Moreover , for any human to understand the Ishwar fully is not possible, the same is presented in the verse which depicts Doubt

      so i would really ask you to go to arya samaj for a debate so all your misunderstandin gs are cleared.

      Om Tat Sat Brahma Arpan Astu.

  4. dragunov says

    dear agniveer or arya or anyone i believe i have a verse from vedas whcih shows that has a place where he lives, Rig Veda Mandal 8; Sukt 13; Mantra 2

    In his expansive heavenly mansion, is the location of Ishwar, he who brings success,
    Most glorious, prompt to save, who wins the water-floods.”
    please can you explain how ishwar is omnipresent if this mantra says otherwise?

    • says

      Namaste

      We have already provided mantras which clearly put him as omnipresent.

      The concerned mantra has following simple meaning (There are definitely other deep meanings but we provide a straightforward one for ease of understanding)

      Sah: He
      Prathame : The Best
      Vyomani: provides protection and fearlessness
      Devanam: to noble virtuous people and entities to help us
      Sadane: Wherever they are (in their natural locations)
      Vridhah: And nourishes them for growth
      Supaarah: He provides happiness and takes away miseries
      Sushravah Tamah: He possess ultimate glory worth being understood
      Apsu Jit: Controls all entities in universe.

      The problem is the word “Sadane” which means in home or location. But the term is Devanaam Sadane with Devanaam in plural. So it means location of Devas or noble people. No way can the mantra be twisted to interpret it has a specific location of Ishwar. I am afraid but you are referring to a wrong translation.

      Admin

      • ohmygod says

        Agniveer explain this please

        Agni = fire = object

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni

        Agni is the eldest son of Brahma. In Visnu Purana, Agni (Abhimani) the fire god is said to have sprung from the mouth of the Virat purusha, the Cosmic Man. His wife is Svaha. Abhimani had three sons of surpassing brilliancy: Pavaka, Pavamana, and Suchi, the personifications of the three fires that produced our earth and humanity (VP 1:10).[11] All these three names indicate purity. Abhimanin, his three sons, and their 45 sons constitute the mystic 49 fires of the Puranas and theosophy. (cf Agni Purana.)

        As the eldest son of Brahma, Abhimani represents the cosmic Logos, the first force produced in the universe at its evolution, the fire of cosmic creative desire.

        His three sons, according to the Vayu Purana, stand for three different aspects of Agni (fire): Pavaka is the electric fire, Pavamana the fire produced by friction, and Suchi the solar fire. Interpreted on the cosmic and human planes, these three fires are “Spirit, Soul, and Body, the three great Root groups, with their four additional divisions” (SD 2:247). They are said to have been cursed by the sage Vasishtha to be born again and again (cf BP 4:24,4; SD 2:247-8). “Every fire has a distinct function and meaning in the worlds of the physical and the spiritual. It has, moreover, in its essential nature a corresponding relation to one of the human psychic faculties, besides its well determined chemical and physical potencies when coming in contact with the terrestrially differentiated matter” (SD 1:521).

        Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life. Agni helps in the various physiological functions of the body.[citation needed]

        • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

          @ohmygod :
          Even thought everything that you have written is illogical but still to reciprocate at your level of intelligence.
          There are millions of Muslims with the Name “Muhammad”? (Hum… what is that supposed to mean!!)

          And while copy pasting your forgot to read
          “Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life”

          BTW who sustains life?? in the Vedic tradition its the ESHWAR. So AGIN = ESHWAR in the right context.

          Moreover, Puranas are just Stories for entertaining the people; they have no validity and credibility. Veda are the supreme..

          • ohmygod says

            आर्यव्रतस्थ says:
            November 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM

            @ohmygod :
            Even thought everything that you have written is illogical but still to reciprocate at your level of intelligence.
            There are millions of Muslims with the Name “Muhammad”? (Hum… what is that supposed to mean!!)

            And while copy pasting your forgot to read
            “Agni is also an important entity in ayurveda. It is considered to be the one which is responsible for the sustenance of life”

            BTW who sustains life?? in the Vedic tradition its the ESHWAR. So AGIN = ESHWAR in the right context.

            Moreover, Puranas are just Stories for entertaining the people; they have no validity and credibility. Veda are the supreme..

            it preaches it is formless

            then why this

            Agni is the eldest son of Brahma.

            please explain

  5. Vaishnav says

    Come what may… I’ll keep on worshipping Bhagwan Vishnu.
    Shanka Chakra Gadha paani, Dwaarakaa nilayachyuta
    Govind pundareekaksha Raksha maam sharanagatam.

    • Vajra says

      Vaishnav
      Worship whatever you feel to be worshipped. But be honest with your belief, welcome the healthy discussions, accept the truth, reject the falsehood. Most importantly love all, never force your belief system on others, but never get ruined by others, never get your idols broken again as happened in past. Defend your faith to the last drop of your blood against the oppressors. Give Vishnuji commitment that no body can break His idol forcefully and cant convert you at the edge of the sword as crores of worshippers were converted in past and temples were desecrated.

      This is the litmus test for all Krishna worshippers. Debating or even abusing here is very easy but defending faith against sword is very difficult. So be brave like Krishna so that noone can dare to break temples of Krishna in future and convert them to mosques and slaughter houses.

  6. truth seeker says

    Namaste Agniveer Ji,
    You have give us name of 33 Devata, but I want to know more about them in detail like what mean of 10life forces (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) , how they work? From where & which book I can get the detail explanation of all 33.

  7. rama tirtha says

    i live how we have these internet muslim trolls who ask such silly questions!i think there is absolutly nothing wrong with so called”idol worship”,if everyone wordship idols,we would have less 9/11 attacks and more peace in the universe.who are you guys to say that the 33 devathas dont exist?as far as im concerned,there are infinite gods and goddesses,yes infinite,like infinite animal species,there are infinite gods and goddesess.im proud to be a polytheist.if anyone wants to debate,im up for it.i have seen the goddesses in person,so you cant tell me they dont exist mr.”islam is great”.hail satan!

  8. says

    ORIGIN OF VERDICT LANGUAGE:

    According to old Hindu pundit belief, there is only one language during the period of creation. (Naredra bushan: history of Vedic sahithia page 27).Most of the Hindu scholar make that verdict language was Sanskrit. But Sanskrit created by human how can it will be a gods language?

    ”this verdict language not belongs to our today Sanskrit. Sanskrit originated from Vedic Terminology, it depend only the code of Veda, so it being a human language “(Ibid, Page 39) According to language scholar the Sanskrit originated and more related from the Iranian verdict language avastha.They claim the similarity between the Rig-Veda and avastha. (Ibid, Page 41) Sree krishan chaithanya says that “the Egyptian and Mesopotamian language older than the verdict language “(barath encyclopedia vol 2: page731)

    According to Dayanand Saraswathi Veda originated 1310 million years ago, this is only his opinion there is no a single clear and valid evidence about his claim.

    All the historian and language scholar criticize his opinion.

    1. According Max Muller, Rig-Veda originated the period between BC 800 to BC1000 (Fredric Max Muller: The Vedas, Page 25)

    2. According to Winternist Rig-Veda has originated 2500 years ago, some scholar claim 4000 years ago.

    3. The verses of rig-Veda originated 1200 years ago before the Jesus (E.G. Rapson: Ancient India, Page 5)

    4. According to DR. S. Radhakrishnan: Veda originated 15 century before the Jesus (Dr. S. Radhakrishnan: Indian Philosophy Vol. 1, Page 37)

    ——————————————————————————–

    The difference between the scholars and dyananda sarwathi that their allegation had lot evidence from history and language science, but sarawathi and arya samaj never given single evidence abut their claim.

    The entire historian believes Veda vyasa has lived between 12 and15 centuries before the Jesus. How Veda cans Veda originate 1310 million years ago? That the contradiction between the Reality and suspicious…

    • Sharek says

      The knowledge existed from before. If you studied history and vedas more objectively, or vedic methods and ancient technology, you would have concluded the followings:
      what they claim to exist around “12 to 14 centuries before Christ” are the first written vedic documents.
      But the knowledge existed long before and were not transmitted the same way. But it’s up to people to believe in this, it’s not verifyable. But you can’t say that vedic knowledge started at this time because the most ancient written document found was dated at that time, just like you can’t say it existed from before. It’s not verifyable.

      The date is not important.
      The knowledge is.
      And from that standpoint, with use of my rationnality, I rejected Quran, Bible etc. Vedas is the absolute knowledge. Then again, it’s your work to find it out, by use of rationnality etc. It’s not an obligation. If you chose Quran the same way, then no problem. But don’t despise the ones who didn’t, don’t hurt those who didn’t, and be tolerent by accepting that other truths than yours are possible. Because it’s not verifyable. Your Allah is not verifyable. My Ishwar neither.

      Just don’t spread falsehood, and be tolerent.

    • vibiesh says

      1 chathur yuga is 4320000 years, manu is the ruler of chathuryuga a manu’s life ruling period is 71 chathuryuga some says its 12000 years in one chathur yuga, now its the kaliyuga of 27th chathuryuga of 7th manu . vedas was originated from brahma aaaand if you calculated the years mentioned in the puranas you can find the age of the vedas

  9. Sharek says

    Concerning Idol worshipping etc, I personnaly pray those devatas like Shiva, but not without understandings. I don’t pray for good kharma. I mean, it’s my duty to pray yes, but I’m not praying to gain something from the entity/devata Shiva.
    Sometimes I pray Hanuman to gain courage etc, but all my prayers are in the absolute towards Ishwar. Focusing on a form, such as a devatas, helps my mind to pray. Without this, it’s hard to pray a formless being. It is possible, but focusing on a form which represents aspects of this Ishwar is a great help when you don’t have sufficiant knowledge, inspiration, focus etc.

    Focusing on devatas etc (which I consider embodiments of aspects of Ishwar) helps a lot, for meditation and more.

    When you have the knowledge of what is Ishwar, when you’ve done the discrimating work, there’s no problem with idol worship, as long as you understand Truth, as long as you understand prayers. But if we were to say idol worship and prayers are different things, then what I’m saying has no big sense, lol.

    But whatever, what I’m saying is that depending on your understandings, how you see consider things, there’s nothing bad with idol worshipping.

    Hari Om

    • says

      @ Vibiesh,
      .
      I have very limited knowledge – but I’d like to share. Other experts & knowledgeable members or Agniveer can correct me.
      .
      Aham Brahmasmi Tat Tvam Asi
      .
      This means, I am the Divine-force & so are you.
      .
      It’s meant to say that the divine-life-force that makes me what I am is the same force that makes you what you are. The distinction or difference that we see – like you, me, your name, my name, your property, my property are transient – they’re temporary. Both you & I and every other entity in this entire “prapancham” (Universe) are one & the same.
      .
      MN

  10. vibiesh says

    God donot have an image, but since God is present in everything it can be considered as its image, thus God is both with form and Formless

  11. vibiesh says

    Agniveerji mentioned God can’t be both with form and formless I think this statement id wrong
    God is both with form and formless,the form is not God and God is not without Form,How?Do you believe God is complete or Absolute?If God and This world is different how can he be complete?So God should be Omnipresent to be complete or Absolute,and as God is present everywhere, everything can be considered as his image,but God is not that image and God is not without an image

    • says

      yea! viiesh …

      we shall see god equally in mountains, trees , rivers and other wonders of the nature as we see him in idols.

      so idols do not contain more god than contained in the mountain.

      to say that god does not have a form means he cannot be painted on a screen or as a idol.

    • Truth Seeker says

      @vibiesh
      Find your answer here for questions like
      http://aryabhajans.com/questions-and-vedic-answers/quest-%E2%80%93-vedic-answer-chapter-6/
      Quest # 108: Does God incarnate? Or can He incarnate Himself (take Avatar)?
      Quest # 109: God is one and never incarnates! Any proof? But the Geeta and the Ramayana says, “God incarnates Himself” (Geeta 4.7). Can you explain?

      Quest # 110: God is formless then how to meditate on Him? Should one have an idol or some statue for concentration?

      Quest # 111: God is Formless, then how to visualise Him?

      Quest # 112: Why is God Formless and invisible to all?

  12. prasad says

    Agniveerji,
    Regarding 33 crore (koti) Gods .Koti means part ( not ten million) and here 33 parts devaas (people with divine qualities) 33 parts asuraas ( people with demonic qualities) and 33 parts maanavas ( people with ordinary human qualities)- it is just like we say 1/3 of the human beings have divine, demonic and ordinary human qualities each. Please clarify if there is any mistake.

  13. prasad says

    Samvadsarasya prathimayam thva raathryupasathe prajasuveeram krithva viswamayurvyashunavath prajapathyam (Thaithareeya Samhitha – Kandam 5 Prashnam 7 Anuvakam 2 Panjadhi 1)
    Swaroopam Prathimam vishno prasannavadhaneshananm thamarchayetham pranayeetham yajetham vichidhayed(Thaithareeya Samhitha Kandam 4 Prashnam 3)
    Adhoyaddharum pravathesindoo raparee apavrusham thadharabaswa (Rig samhitha Astakam 7 Vargam 15)
    Ehyashmana mathista ashmabavathuthee thanum (Adharvaveda kandam 1 kalpam 2 dwani 3)
    Yavandhooshmanosyam pritvivyam prathistasu prathistam yavanda pamsamvo bhumesangyaa thapadeva mayaya (Kanvasamhitha kandam 1 chapter 3 anuvakam 6)
    Purushamatrena vimimithe (Thaithareeya samhitha 5-2-5)

    These slokas says about Idol Worship.A scholar said these are slokas which shows Idol Worship in Vedas.Can you explain?

  14. says

    नोट : ध्यान दें इस लेख में इश्वर से हमारा अभिप्राय परमात्मा या परब्रह्म से है ना की ‘देवता’ से | ‘ देवता ‘ एक अलग संज्ञा है जो की कई बार अज्ञानपूर्वक परब्रह्म के लिए इस्तेमाल कर ली जाती है |
    जबकि ईश्वर भी एक ‘देवता’ है, लेकिन किसी भी इकाई – जीवित या निर्जीव – जो कि हमें मदद करता/करती है या हमारे लिए उपयोगी है उसे ‘देवता’ कहा जाता है| लेकिन इसका मतलब यह नहीं हर इकाई ईश्वर है और उसकी पूजा की जानी चाहिए | भ्रम से बचने के लिए, हम इस लेख में ‘ईश्वर’ शब्द का उपयोग करेंगे |

    वो परब्रह्म जो निस्वार्थता का प्रतिनिधित्व करता है, पूरे ब्रह्मांड को नियंत्रित करता है, हर जगह मौजूद है और सभी देवताओं का देवता है, वो ही इकलोता आनंद का स्रोत है. जो उसे नहीं समझता वह दुख में डूबे और जो उसे जान लेते हैं अपार आनंद को प्राप्त करते हैं | (ऋग्वेद 1.164.39)

    प्रश्न : वेद में कितने ईश्वर हैं ? हमने तो सुना है की वेदों में ईश्वर की बड़ी संख्या बताई है ?

    उत्तर : आपने गलत स्रोतों से सुना है. वेदों में स्पष्ट रूप से निर्दिष्ट है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है. और वेदों में कोई एक भी मंत्र नहीं है कि जिस से एक से अधिक इश्वर होने की व्याख्या की जा सकती हो |

    केवल यही नहीं, वेद ने किसी भी ‘परी’ या ‘पैगंबर’ या ‘अवतार’ जो आपके और ईश्वर के बीच में एक एजेंट का कार्य करे , ऐसे किसी के अस्तित्व को नकार दिया है |
    अर्थात एक सादृश्य देने के लिए:

    वेदों के ईश्वर = ईसाई धर्म में परमात्मा में से (ट्रिनिटी की अवधारणा) और ( यीशु को आत्मसमर्पण करने की आवश्यकता ) को निकल दीजिये |

    वेदों के ईश्वर = इस्लाम के अल्लाह में से (मुहम्मद अंतिम पैगंबर के रूप में स्वीकार करने की आवश्यकता) को निकल दीजिये |

    दूसरे शब्दों में, अगर कोई ‘शाहादा’ के पहले भाग को कहता है की : ला इलाहा illallâh (एक और केवल एक अल्लाह के अलावा कोई अन्य परमेश्वर नहीं है) लेकिन दुसरे हिस्से को नकार दे मतलब , मुहम्मदुरर्सुल्लाह (मुहम्मद उसके दूत है) को ना माने , तो वो वैदिक इश्वर की अवधारणा के करीब है |

  15. says

    hindi translation of this article!! ………
    may be it is of some use!!
    नोट : ध्यान दें इस लेख में इश्वर से हमारा अभिप्राय परमात्मा या परब्रह्म से है ना की ‘देवता’ से | ‘ देवता ‘ एक अलग संज्ञा है जो की कई बार अज्ञानपूर्वक परब्रह्म के लिए इस्तेमाल कर ली जाती है |
    जबकि ईश्वर भी एक ‘देवता’ है, लेकिन किसी भी इकाई – जीवित या निर्जीव – जो कि हमें मदद करता/करती है या हमारे लिए उपयोगी है उसे ‘देवता’ कहा जाता है| लेकिन इसका मतलब यह नहीं हर इकाई ईश्वर है और उसकी पूजा की जानी चाहिए | भ्रम से बचने के लिए, हम इस लेख में ‘ईश्वर’ शब्द का उपयोग करेंगे |

    वो परब्रह्म जो निस्वार्थता का प्रतिनिधित्व करता है, पूरे ब्रह्मांड को नियंत्रित करता है, हर जगह मौजूद है और सभी देवताओं का देवता है, वो ही इकलोता आनंद का स्रोत है. जो उसे नहीं समझता वह दुख में डूबे और जो उसे जान लेते हैं अपार आनंद को प्राप्त करते हैं | (ऋग्वेद 1.164.39)

    प्रश्न : वेद में कितने ईश्वर हैं ? हमने तो सुना है की वेदों में ईश्वर की बड़ी संख्या बताई है ?

    उत्तर : आपने गलत स्रोतों से सुना है. वेदों में स्पष्ट रूप से निर्दिष्ट है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है. और वेदों में कोई एक भी मंत्र नहीं है कि जिस से एक से अधिक इश्वर होने की व्याख्या की जा सकती हो |

    केवल यही नहीं, वेद ने किसी भी ‘परी’ या ‘पैगंबर’ या ‘अवतार’ जो आपके और ईश्वर के बीच में एक एजेंट का कार्य करे , ऐसे किसी के अस्तित्व को नकार दिया है |
    अर्थात एक सादृश्य देने के लिए:

    वेदों के ईश्वर = ईसाई धर्म में परमात्मा में से (ट्रिनिटी की अवधारणा) और ( यीशु को आत्मसमर्पण करने की आवश्यकता ) को निकल दीजिये |

    वेदों के ईश्वर = इस्लाम के अल्लाह में से (मुहम्मद अंतिम पैगंबर के रूप में स्वीकार करने की आवश्यकता) को निकल दीजिये |

    दूसरे शब्दों में, अगर कोई ‘शाहादा’ के पहले भाग को कहता है की : ला इलाहा illallâh (एक और केवल एक अल्लाह के अलावा कोई अन्य परमेश्वर नहीं है) लेकिन दुसरे हिस्से को नकार दे मतलब , मुहम्मदुरर्सुल्लाह (मुहम्मद उसके दूत है) को ना माने , तो वो वैदिक इश्वर की अवधारणा के करीब है |

    • says

      इस्लाम में,अलाह के अलावा किसी और को भी पूजने योग्य समझना या पूजना सबसे बड़ा पाप है अथवा शिर्क है . यदि आप इस अवधारणा को और आगे ले जाएँ और अल्लाह से अलग मुहम्मद या गेब्रियल को भी याद करने से मना करें ,तो वेद की नज़र में आप शिर्क से ही बच रहे है .

      प्रश्न: विभिन्न देवताओं जो की वेदों में वर्णित हैं उनके बारे में क्या?और वो ३३ करोड़ देवताओं का क्या ?

      उत्तर :

      1. जैसा कि पहले उल्लेख किया है, देवता शब्द का उन इकाइयों को संदर्भित करता है जो कि हमारे लिए उपयोगी होते हैं | लेकिन वेदों में यह कहीं नहीं वर्णित है कि हमें इनकी पूजा करनी चाहिए| हाँ , बेशक, ईश्वर देवता या देव है और इसलिए ‘महादेव’ कहा जाता है. वह अकेले पूजा जाता है या पूजने योग्य है |

      2. वेदों ३३ करोड़ देवताओं नहीं अपितु के 33 प्रकार(संस्कृत में कोटि) के देवताओं की बात करते हैं . वे शतपथ-ब्राह्मण में बहुत स्पष्ट रूप से व्याख्या की हुई है . ये इस प्रकार हैं –

      ८ वासु हैं (पृथ्वी, जल, अग्नि, वायु, आकाश, चंद्रमा, सूर्य / सितारे और ग्रह) जो की ब्रह्माण्ड के वो घटक है जहां हम रहते हैं|
      १० जीवन शक्तिया या प्राण (प्राण, अपान, व्यान , उदान , समान , नाग, कुर्म्म , कुकल , देवदत्त,धनञ्जय ) और १ आत्मा ये ग्यारह रूद्र कहते हैं |
      १२ आदित्य या साल के महीने |
      १ विद्युत या विद्युत चुम्बकीय शक्ति जो कि हमारे लिए जबरदस्त उपयोग की है |
      १ यज्ञ या मनुष्यों द्वारा किया निस्वार्थ ,परोपकारी कर्मों |

      इन ३३ देवताओं के अधिपति महादेव या ईश्वर ,शतपथ-ब्राह्मण के चौहदवें कांड के अनुसार एक अकेला ही पूजने योग्य है |

      ३३ देवताओं की अवधारणा अपने आप में एक महान अनुसंधान आधारित विषय है और उचित समझने के लिए गहराई से अध्ययन में की आवश्यकता है. हालांकि, यह सभी वैदिक ग्रंथों में बहुत ही स्पष्ट किया गया है कि वे ईश्वर नहीं हैं और इसलिए उनकी पूजा नहीं की जानी चाहिए |

      3. ईश्वर गुणों की भारी संख्या है. अज्ञानी लोगों गलत तरीके से ईश्वर के इन गुणों को अलग अलग कई इश्वर मान लेते हैं ,जैसे आज के अखबार में दो सुर्खियाँ थी , एक ने डॉ. सिंह लिखा था और दूसरी में मनमोहन जी , अब इसका मतलब यह नहीं भारत के दो प्रधानमंत्री है!

      4. इस तरह के भ्रम को दूर करने के लिए, वेदों में कई मंत्र है जो कि स्पष्ट रूप से कहते है की सिर्फ और सिर्फ एक…

      • says

        4. इस तरह के भ्रम को दूर करने के लिए, वेदों में कई मंत्र है जो कि स्पष्ट रूप से कहते है की सिर्फ और सिर्फ एक इश्वर है बिना किसी भी सहायक, एजेंट या नबी के जो की हमारे और उसके बीच संपर्क बनाए .
        उदाहरण के लिए :
        40.1 यजुर्वेद:
        यह पूरी दुनिया के इश्वर के ही भीतर स्थित है और एक और केवल एक ईश्वर द्वारा प्रबंधित है . कभी भी अन्याय करने का सहस ना करना और ना ही अन्यायपूर्ण साधनों के माध्यम से धन पाने की इच्छा करना | इसके बजाय सही पथ का अनुसरण करें और उसका(परमात्मा का ) आनंद लें. आखिर वो अकेले ही सभी आनंदों का स्रोत है!

        10.48.1 ऋग्वेद:
        वो ईश्वर अकेला ही सर्वव्यापी है और पूरे ब्रह्मांड का प्रबंधक है. वह अकेला विजय प्रदान करता है और दुनिया का शाश्वत कारण है. सभी आत्माओं को केवल उसी की और देखना चाहिए उस प्रकार से जैसे बच्चे अपने पिता को देखते है . वह अकेला ही है जो हमें जीवन आधार और आनंद के प्रदान करता है|

        10.48.5 ऋग्वेद
        ईश्वर पूरी दुनिया को प्रकाशित करता है | वह अपराजित और अमर है| वह दुनिया के निर्माता है| सभी आत्माओं को उस से ज्ञान की मांग कर और अनुसरण कर के उस से आनंद प्राप्त करना चाहिए. उन्हें ईश्वर की मित्रता से कभी दूर नहीं रहना चाहिए|

        10.49.1 ऋग्वेद
        ईश्वर अकेला ही सत्य चाहने वालों के लिए सच्चा ज्ञान प्रदान करता है. वह अकेले ही ज्ञान की दायक है और महान कार्यों में भले लोगों को प्रेरित करके आनंद प्राप्त करवाता है . वह अकेला ही दुनिया का निर्माता और प्रबंधक है. इसलिए उस एक और केवल एक ईश्वर को छोड़कर किसी और की कभी पूजा नहीं करनी चाहिए .

        13.4 यजुर्वेद
        वह एक और केवल एक निर्माता और पूरी दुनिया का प्रबंधक है. वह अकेले पृथ्वी, आकाश और अन्य खगोलीय पिंड को बनता है| वह स्वयं परमानंद है ! वह अकेला ही हमारे द्वारा पूजा करने योग्य है |

        13.4.16-21 अथर्ववेद
        वह न तो दो है और न ही तीन, और न ही चार, और न ही पाँच, और न ही छह, और न ही सात, और न ही आठ, ना ही नौ, और न ही दस है. पर इसके विपरीत वह केवल एक है | एक और केवल एक उसके अलावा कोई ईश्वर नहीं है| सभी देवता उसके भीतर रहते हैं और उसके द्वारा नियंत्रित हैं| तो वह अकेला, पूजा जाना चाहिए कोई भी और नहीं |

        10.7.38 अथर्ववेद
        केवल एक ईश्वर ही सबसे बडा और पूजा किये जाने लायक है. वह सभी ज्ञान और गतिविधियों का स्रोत है…

        • says

          10.7.38 अथर्ववेद
          केवल एक ईश्वर ही सबसे बडा और पूजा किये जाने लायक है. वह सभी ज्ञान और गतिविधियों का स्रोत है |

          32.11 यजुर्वेद
          ईश्वर ब्रह्मांड में प्रत्येक बिंदु पर रहता है. कोई भी स्थान उस से रहित नहीं है. वह आत्मनिर्भर है और उसे अपने कर्तव्यों का पालन करने के लिए किसी भी एजेंट, परी, नबी या अवतार की मदद लेने की जरूरत नहीं है | जो आत्मा इस एक और केवल एक ईश्वर को प्राप्त कर लेता है वो बिना शर्त परम आनंद या मोक्ष को प्राप्त करने में सक्षम है |
          वेदों में असंख्य ऐसे मंत्र है कि एक और केवल एक ईश्वर है और हमें उसकी पूजा करने के लिए सीधे निर्देश हैं बिना अन्य किसी – अवतार, पैगंबर, एन्जिल या एजेंट का आवाहन किये |

          प्रश्न: आप ईश्वर के अस्तित्व को कैसे स्थापित करते हैं ?

          उत्तर : प्रत्यक्ष और अप्रत्यक्ष रूप से प्रमाण के माध्यम से.

          प्रश्न : लेकिन ईश्वर का प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण संभव नहीं है. तो आप कैसे ईश्वर की स्थापना करते है ?
          उत्तर:
          1. साक्ष्य मतलब इंद्रियों से प्राप्त उत्तेजनाओं के माध्यम से निर्धारित ज्ञान | लेकिन ध्यान दें कि इंद्रियों गुण की पहचान करती है लेकिन इन गुणों के कारण की नहीं |

          उदाहरण के लिए, जब आप इस लेख पढ़ा, तो आप ‘अग्निवीर’ के अस्तित्व को नहीं जान रहे , लेकिन केवल कुछ छवियां आपकी स्क्रीन पर आ रही है कि जिसकी आप सार्थक ज्ञान में व्याख्या करते हैं . और फिर आप ये निष्कर्ष निकलते है कि इस लेख कोई लेखक अवश्य है और दावा करते हैं की आप के पास ‘ अग्निवीर’ के अस्तित्व का प्रमाण है | तो यह ‘अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत’ भले ही हो पर यह ‘प्रत्यक्ष’ प्रकट होता है|

          इसी प्रकार, इस पूरी सृष्टि रचना जिसका हम इंद्रियों के माध्यम से निरीक्षण कर ग्रहण करते हैं वो ईश्वर के अस्तित्व का प्रमाण बनती है |

          2. जब आप एक इकाई के लिए एक संवेदी इन्द्रिय को सीधे जोड़ लेते हैं, तो आप ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ का दावा करते है. उदाहरण के लिए जब आप एक आम खाने लगते है तो आप जीभ में जो मिठास आती है उसकी संगती उस आम के साथ लगते है जो की आप खा रहे हैं | महत्वपूर्ण बात यह है कि आप केवलये प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण केवल उसी अंग के साथ लगा सकते है जिस से आपने उसे महसूस किया था |जैसे :

          इस प्रकार पिछले उदाहरण में, आप ‘कान’ से नहीं कर सकते लेकिन केवल ‘जीभ’ या ‘नाक’ या ‘आँखों’ के माध्यम से ही आम का…

          • says

            इस प्रकार पिछले उदाहरण में, आप ‘कान’ से नहीं कर सकते लेकिन केवल ‘जीभ’ या ‘नाक’ या ‘आँखों’ के माध्यम से ही आम का ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ कर सकते हैं |

            वास्तविकता में इसके अलावा यह भी ‘अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत’ है हालांकि हम सादगी के लिए इसे ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ कहते हैं .

            अब जब ईश्वर सबसे सूक्ष्म मौजूदा इकाई है, यह असंभव है आंखों, नाक, जीभ, त्वचा, या कान की तरह मोटे इंद्रियों के माध्यम से ईश्वर के ‘प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण’ हो सके | उदाहरण के लिए हम सब -अटॉमिक कणों को सबसे शक्तिशाली सूक्ष्मदर्शी के माध्यम से भी नहीं देख सकते , हम अल्ट्रासोनिक ध्वनि नहीं सुन सकते और हम प्रत्येक अणु के स्पर्श को भी महसूस नहीं कर सकते हैं|
            दूसरे शब्दों में, यह असंभव है इन मोटे और कमजोर इंद्रियों के माध्यम से इश्वर को प्रामाणित किया जा सके जैसे कानों से आम को प्रमाणित नहीं कर सकते या subatomic कणों को आँखों के माध्यम से महसूस नहीं कर सकते हैं |
            3. ‘मन’ ही एक अंग है कि जिस से ईश्वर को समझ सकते हैं | जब मन पूरी तरह से नियंत्रित है और अनैच्छिक शोर (हर समय हजारो विचारों के आने की तरह) से रहित हो और ईश्वर के गुणों के बारे में पर्याप्त ज्ञान , अध्ययन और अभ्यास के माध्यम से प्राप्त किया गया हो , तब ईश्वर को भी ‘मन’ के माध्यम से प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाणित किया जा सकता है जैसे एक आम का अपने स्वाद के माध्यम से प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण होता है |
            यही इस जीवन का लक्ष्य है और एक योगी मन पर नियंत्रण के सभी विभिन्न तरीकों जैसे कि अहिंसा, सत्य , करुणा, सभी के लिए आनंद मांगना ,उच्च नैतिक चरित्र, अन्याय के खिलाफ लड़ने , लोगों में एकता , आदि के माध्यम से करने का प्रयास करता है |

            4.एक तरह से हमें हमारे जीवन में ईश्वर के हर रोज प्रत्यक्ष प्रमाण के संकेत मिलते है. जब हम चोरी या इसी तरह के किसी भी गलत कार्य में लिप्त होने की कोशिश करते है जैसे धोखाधड़ी, क्रूरता तो हमें एक हलकी सी .. भय, शर्म या शक आदि के रूप में ‘भीतर की आवाज’ सुनाई देती है और, जब हम दूसरों की मदद करने, एक बच्चे आशीर्वाद देने आदि की तरह महान कामों में लिप्त होते हैं तो हमें फिर से एक निर्भयता ,संतुष्टि, उत्साह और आनंद की भावना के रूप में ‘भीतर की आवाज’,
            सुनती है |
            ‘यह भीतर की आवाज’ ईश्वर से है. अक्सर हम यह आसपास की मूर्ख प्रवृत्तियों के कारण ,जोर से…

          • says

            ‘यह भीतर की आवाज’ ईश्वर से है. अक्सर हम यह आसपास की मूर्ख प्रवृत्तियों के कारण ,जोर से डीजे संगीत के माध्यम से इसे चुप करने करने की कोशिश करते रहते हैं . लेकिन फिर भी हम सब कई बार इस ‘भीतर की आवाज’ को अब तब ऊँची होती सुनते रहते है, जब आसपास की चीजें अपेक्षाकृत चुप होती है|

            5.और जब आत्मा मानसिक गड़बड़ी से शुद्ध और डीजे क्लब आदि शोर से दूर हो जाती है,तो यह ईश्वर का सीधे प्रत्यक्ष सबूत करने में सक्षम है.

            इसलिए दोनों प्रत्यक्ष और अप्रत्यक्ष सबूत के माध्यम से, ईश्वर स्पष्ट रूप से स्थापित है, जैसे की अन्य पदार्थ जो की हमारे द्वारा देखे जाते हैं |.

            क्यू: कहाँ रहते हैं ईश्वर करता है?

            एक:

            1. ईश्वर सर्वव्यापी है और इसलिए हर जगह रहता है. अगर ईश्वर कुछ विशेष सिंहासन या कुछ विशेष आकाश की भांति एक विशेष जगह पर रह रहा हो ,तो वह सर्वज्ञ , सर्वशक्तिमान ,सभी का प्रबंधक,सभी का नाशक और निर्माता नहीं हो सकता था. आप जहाँ आप मौजूद नहीं हैं उस जगह पर कोई कार्य या कार्रवाई नहीं कर सकते |
            2.यदि आप का कहना है कि ईश्वर एक ही स्थान से दुनिया प्रबंधन कर सकता है जैसे सूरज दूर से पृथ्वी को रौशनी देता है या जैसे रिमोट कंट्रोल के माध्यम से टीवी देखा जाता है , तो यह दोषपूर्ण तर्क है| क्योंकि सूरज , पृथ्वी को रोशन करने के लिए सक्षम है या हम रिमोट कंट्रोल के माध्यम से टीवी संचालित करने में सक्षम है इसका कारण केवल विकिरण तरंगे है जो कि अंतरिम अंतरिक्ष के माध्यम से यात्रा कर के सूरज से धरती तक, या रेमोते सर टीवी तक पहुंचती हैं | सिर्फ इसलिए कि हम उन्हें देखने में असमर्थ हैं तो हम इसे रिमोट कंट्रोल कहते हैं, वास्तविकता में वहाँ एक रिमोट कंट्रोल की तरह कुछ भी नहीं है | इस प्रकार सत्य तथ्य यह है कि ईश्वर के कुछ का प्रबंधन करने में सक्षम होने का मतलब है कि यह वह वहाँ मौजूद है |

            3.इसके अलावा, अगर ईश्वर सर्वशक्तिमान है, तो वह डर कर खुद को किसी एक छोटे से स्थान पर सीमित क्यों कर के रखेगा ? यह बात ईश्वर को सीमित बनाती है. ईसाइयों का कहना है भगवान् चौथे आकाश और मुसलमानों का कहना है कि अल्लाह सातवें आसमान पर है. और उनके अनुयायी अपने को सही साबित करने के लिए एक दूसरे से लड़ते रहते हैं | क्या इसका कारण यह है कि भगवान और अल्लाह ने अलग अलग आसमान में रहने का फैसला किया है ताकि वो भी आपस में उनके अनुयायियों…

          • says

            क्या इसका कारण यह है कि भगवान और अल्लाह ने अलग अलग आसमान में रहने का फैसला किया है ताकि वो भी आपस में उनके अनुयायियों की तरह लड़ना ना शुरू करदें ?

            हकीकत में ये सब बातें बचकाना हैं. जब ईश्वर सर्वशक्तिमान है और पूरे ब्रह्मांड उसके नियंत्रण में है , तो ऐसा कोई कारण नहीं है जिसके लिए वह खुद को ब्रह्मांड के एक छोटे से हिस्से में सीमित कर के रखेगा . और अगर ऐसा है तो फिर उसे सर्वशक्तिमान नहीं कहा जा सकता |
            क्यू: क्या इसका यह मतलब है कि ईश्वर शराब, मूत्र, मलमूत्र की तरह गंदे चीज़ों में भी है?

            एक:

            1. संपूर्ण सृष्टि ईश्वर के भीतर है. अब क्योंकि ईश्वर इन चीजों के बाहर भी है, लेकिन कोई भी चीज़ ईश्वर के बाहर मौजूद नहीं है. तो दुनिया में सब चीज़ें ईश्वर द्वारा व्याप्त हैं. एक सादृश्य दें तो , हम ईश्वर के भीतर उसी तरह से है जैसे पानी के टब के भीतर कपड़े रहता हैं. कपडे के भीतर, बाहर और आसपास पानी होता है. कपड़े का कोई भी भाग ऐसा नहीं है जो पानी से गीला नहीं है, लेकिन उस कपडे से परे भी डोर दूर तक पानी है .

            2. कुछ भी हमारे लिए गंदा या अच्चा उसके प्रति हमारे कर्तव्य पर निर्भर करता है . परमाणुओं का बना हुआ आम हमें खाने में स्वादिष्ट लगता है लेकिन जब वाही परमाणुओं बिखर कर अन्य रसायनों से मिलकर मलमूत्र आदि बन जाते है तो वो हमारे लिए गंदा हो जाता है | तो संक्षेप में कहें तो ये सब केवल प्रकृति के कणों के विभिन्न संयोजन हैं | चूंकि हम इस पृथ्वी पर एक मिशन पर है, तो हम उस मिशन के लिए हर चीज़ का विश्लेषण करते है और जो हमे चाहिए उसे स्वीकार और बाकियों को अस्वीकार कर देते हैं . हम जिसे अस्वीकार कर देते हैं वो हमारे लिए गंदा या कचरा है और जो हम स्वीकार करते हैं वह हमारे लिए अच्छा है. लेकिन भगवान के लिए, ऐसे कर्तव्य मौजूद नहीं है इसीलिए उसके लिए कुछ भी गंदा नहीं है . इसके विपरीत,इश्वर का कर्तव्य हमसे अलग है – हमे सही तरीके से परमानन्द प्राप्त करवाना ही परमात्मा का लक्ष्य है – और इसलिए उसके लिए इस पूरे सृजन में ऐसा कुछ भी नहीं है जो अछूत है.

            3. यदि आप एक अन्य सादृश्य से देखो, ईश्वर एक उस पाखंडी सामाजिक कार्यकर्ता की तरह नहीं है जो अपने वातानुकूलित कार्यालय में तोह दूर दूर की योजना पसंद करते हैं लेकिन पास ही के मलिन बस्तियों में जाने से बचता है | इसके विपरीत, वह हमारे लाभ तथा सहायता के लिए…

          • says

            इसके विपरीत, वह हमारे लाभ तथा सहायता के लिए सबसे गंदे स्थान पर भी सदा मौजूद है.

            4. और चूँकि वह अकेला ही सम्पूर्ण है और बावजूद की वह हर जगह पर है और सब कुछ उसके भीतर है,लेकिन तब भी वह सब वस्तुओं से अलग है और भिन्न है……….
            ——————————————————

            ———————–_कुछ व्यस्तताओं के कारण में अभी इस से आगे लेख का हिंदी में अनुवाद नहीं कर पाया हूँ , यदि ये इतना आंशिक अनुवाद किसी काम का हो तो, इसमें किसी भी प्रकार का बदलाव आदि करके आप इसका इस्तेमाल कर सकते हैं , धन्यवाद———————–
            कृष्ण आर्य .
            —————ॐ————–

  16. Serajul Hak says

    either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo

  17. Serajul Hak says

    either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo

  18. Serajul Hak says

    either u are a member of rss or sive sena or u are a illitrate person pahle kisi chiz ko samjho phir bolo

    • hyder says

      Child marriage of daughters 5-6 years old was common due to the custom of dowry and to avoid scandals [Nand 17] [Basham 167-8] [Yadav 70] [Altekar 16] [Banerjee 70]. Hindu Law books prescribe that the best partner for a man in one-third his age. Thus a man 18 year old should marry a girl 6 years old! – “A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner.”[Manu IX.94] Narada states that some of the defects to be avoided in brides are if they already had a relationship with another man or have their minds set on another, they should not be selected [Sheth 67].

      So my dear friends analyse and think who promotes paedophile.

      • hyder says

        Real face of Hinduism and their gods.
        Brahmins always criticize, condemn and mock at other religions. Their criticism and mocking is unreasonable and unacceptable.
        The Brahmins claim that Lord Rama is incarnated (came in human form) to study and understand the difficulties of mankind. Is it really necessary for a god to incarnate Himself?? Can he not understand the creation? Why should God become a donkey or a cockroach in order to understand the sufferings of these creatures?
        Lord Rama
        Lord Rama is the central character to the Epic RAMAYAN (whose author was Valmiki) Rama is the son of Dasharath, the king of Banaras . Dasharath had three wives, kaushalya, kaikeyi and Smitra besides several hundreds concubines.
        According to the Ramayana, Rama spent most of his life trying to save his wife, Sita from the clutches of Ravan At the same time Rama was enjoying life to the full at every opportunity.
        How Rama was Fooled by Sukrievan.
        When god Rama was exiled to the forest together with his wife, sukrievan appeared as deer and fooled god Rama. Although Rama was a “god”, he was not able to see through Sukreivan’s disguise!

      • hyder says

        Beef Eating Rama
        When God Rama was told to go to forest, he mournfully revealed to is mother: “if has been ordained that I have to lose the kingdom, forego the princely comforts and the tasty, MEAT DISHES. (Ayodha Kandam, 20, 26, 94th Chapters).
        Rama’s Many Wives
        Mr. C.R. Sreenivasa lyengar’s translation of Valmiki Ramayana says: ” Though Rama had married Sita to be the queen, he married many other wives for sexual pleasure in accordance with the royal customs. (Ayodha Kandam 8th Chapter, page 28). (The term “Rama’s wives” as been used in many places in Ramayan).
        Rama’s Disrespect for his Father
        Rama called his father ” A FOOL, AN IDIOT” (Ayodhya Kandam, 53rd Chapter).
        Rama’s Contempt for Women and Low Castes
        Rama disfigured and mutilated many women by cutting off her noses, breasts, ears etc., and tortured them (Soorpanaki, Ayomuki).
        Rama said, “Women should not be trusted” and that “Secrets should not be confided to the wife” (Ayodhya kandam, Chapter 100).

      • hyder says

        What Leaders say about Lord Rama
        “My Rama (god Rama) is not the Rama of Ramayana”. Mahatma Gandhi
        “The Ramayana and Mahabaratha are nothing but another Arabian Nights Story” Jawaharlal Nehru
        God Shiva, Lord Ganesh & Goddess Parvathi
        According to Hinduism, god Shiva’s head is the source of the river Ganges and his head is also the place where the moon is located (if this was really a fact then why should America send astronaut Neil Armstrong 240,000 miles away to the moon)
        According to Puranas, goddess Parvathi, wife of God Shiva, sought Shivas’s permission to have a baby When Shiva refused, Paravathi took dirt from her body and created Lord Ganesh. (The late E.V.R. Preiyar used to call this god a “bundle fo dirt”).
        Later God Shiva mistakenly chopped off his own son’s head. How could a god make such a foolish mistake? Would such a god solve your problems or make them more complicated?
        To rectify his error God Shiva severed the head of baby elephant and transplanted in onto his son who then become known as the Elephant headed god. His statues are usually found near river-sides where he is said to be looking for a bride resembling his mother! (There is a different version to this story which, for decency’s sake, cannot be printed here).

      • hyder says

        Pornography in Ramayana
        Ramanaya also recounts the story of king Dasaratha who, in order to have a baby son, made a big sacrifice (yagam) of sheep, cattle, horses, birds and snakes. He then delivered his three wives Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to three priests. These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire, returned the ladies to the king. By this means, the king was able to have three sons-Ram, Lakshman and Bharat (Bala Kandam, Chapter 14. For more details on yagam, refer to the book “Gnana Surian”, published by the kudi Arasu Press.)

      • Truth Seeker says

        @hyder
        According to the Valmiki Ramayana, Surpanakha (Sister of Ravan)
        met the exiled Rama, the young Prince of Ayodhya, and was immediately smitten by his youthful good looks. Rama, however, spurned her advances, telling her that he was devoted to his wife, Sita, and that he would never take another wife.
        (Through this story prophet Rama taught us lesson of to be monogamous. )
        Rama then slyly suggested that she approach his younger brother, Lakshmana, with her proposition. Lakshmana reacted in a similar manner, deriding Surpanakha and telling her that she was not what he desired in a wife. Realizing eventually that the brothers were making fun of her, the humiliated and jealous Surpanakha attacked Sita but was thwarted by Lakshmana, who cut off her nose and sent her back to Lanka.

        Surpanakha first reacted by going to her brother Khara who sent seven Rakshasa warriors to attack Rama, but were easily dispatched. Khara then attacked with soldiers including himself, who were all killed.
        (Hyder learn some lesson from this great story)

      • Truth Seeker says

        @Hyder
        _________god Shiva’s head is the source of the river Ganges and his head is also the place where the moon is located__________
        If this is wrong, how can it be right
        “Muhammad broke the moon into two”
        “River was split into two for Moses”
        ______When Shiva refused, Paravathi took dirt from her body and created Lord Ganesh_________
        If this is wrong, how can it be right
        “Jesus was born to Virgin Mary without father”
        _______Shiva severed the head of baby elephant and transplanted in onto his son________
        If this is wrong, how can it be right
        “Abraham killed a peacock, crow, cock and sparrow and kept their heads with him. Then he mixed their bodies and wings. Now when he called them, all the pieces went back and joined with each other to make these birds living again”
        “During the battle of Tabuk, water started sprinkling from Muhammad’s fingers when Muslims ran out of water!”
        _______Later God Shiva mistakenly chopped off his own son’s head. How could a god make such a foolish mistake___________
        If this is wrong, how can it be right
        “How can Allah do mistake creating of Shaitan”
        I believe both Quran & Puran should be thrown out which have basis.

      • MOHAMMED = SATAN. says

        brother Truth Seeker!

        Don’t use humble words. He will consider your humility as your weakness. You could have heard this in Ramayana: रावण के निकट हनुमान आए। रावण जानता था कि यह वही है जिन्होने उसकी सेना तहस नहस कर दी है और उसके बेटे “अक्षकुमार” को मार दिया है। फिर भी हनुमान की सादगी और वानर रुप देखकर उसने सोचा – यह तो डर गया। रावण के उस मूर्खतापूर्ण विचार का ही परिणाम था कि लंका भस्म हो गई। तुलसीदास ने कहा है – रावण सो भट डर्यो मुठिका के घाय को ! हनुमान ने ऐसा पलटवार किया कि उनका एक मुक्का ही रावण को कँपाने के लिए पर्याप्त था । वास्तव में उस रुप की आवश्यकता है। विनम्र बनकर ही रह गए तो यह रावण पूछ ही जलाता रहेगा। “लातो का भूत बातो से नही मानता” यह तो आपने पढा ही होगा। Either totally ignore them or challenge the core belief of Satanic cult Mohammedanism. Don’t worry – Nostradamus is with us: http://www.echarcha.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30510

        I believe both Quran & Puran should be thrown out which have basis.
        truncate the last 3 and first 2 words. Both Quran & Puran should be thrown out.
        That’s it. Rather burn them. These 2 are biggest threat on religion.

      • hyder says

        @Truth Seeker & Satan,
        Burn your vedas,manusmrithi upanishads which all give such messages.

      • Slim Shaik says

        @TS/Hyder/MOHAMMED = SATAN/Vinay/KB
        All the miracles mentioned in Quran are true. If anybody doubts in miracles mentioned in Quran & Hadith will not be entitled to be Muslim. How can you disapprove them even science can not deny these miracles of Quran. This article of Satyagni is completely wrong & without any basis. I know Agniveer & Satyagni is same. Best for you remove this article.
        http://satyagni.com/5050/miracles-of-islam/

      • Truth Seeker says

        @hyder
        ____________Burn your vedas________________
        Books can be burned not Veda. Printed books are Ved Sahita not Veda. Veda is knowledge emanated from God and originated in the heart of four rishis. Veda knowledge is divine & Can not be burned or destroy by humans like Quran or Allah’s earlier revelations.

      • GOD IS GREAT says

        Slim Shaikh,
        Thanks for telling the joke that Quranic miracles are full of science. Well, Please tell the science of these:
        Moses stick converted to snake
        Jews converted to apes
        Mohammed’s favorite donkey flew into air
        Tell what science has proven true NOT what Quran says. Let me tell you that agniveer / satyagni isn’t only one who says Quran is not science. The other scientific findings are (most notably by physicist R. Brahmachari):
        answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm
        answering-islam.org/Andy/fallacies.html
        answering-islam.org/Responses/It-is-truth/index.htm
        wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Science
        wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Qur’an_Leads_the_Way_to_Science
        wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam,_Science_and_the_Problems_at_Wikipedia
        wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur’an
        faithfreedom.org/Articles/Shafiya/science_vs_Islam.htm
        islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Erroneous-Science-and-Contradictions-in-Quran.htm
        islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/Scientific-Knowledge-Koran.htm
        mostintolerantreligion.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/quranic-errors-and-contradictions/
        danielpipes.org/comments/66635
        IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM, REFUTE ALL OF THEM RATIONALLY.

      • Truth Seeker says

        @hyder
        ________manusmrithi upanishads which all give such messages._________
        Why not burned Quran which give massage
        1. Allah was sitting idly before this universe creation.
        2. Allah created Shaitan to misguide the simple people.
        3. It was Allah who propagated incest.
        4. Allah was helpless enough that he could not protect earlier revelations.
        5. Allah is suffering from desires, wishes & wants.
        6. Allah needs postman to deliver its massage like human world.

      • Slim Shaikh says

        @GOD IS GREAT/TS/Vinay/Nikhil/All kaffirs/Bhramit aka Mohamad=Satan
        Sale, haramiyo, I know very well you will not believe in Quran. This saying fits on you (“Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante.”)”People who do not give in to talks, do understand only with kicks. Just wait for 2 or 3 years more after establishment of Islamic law here, I will teach you proper lesson to demean Allah. I can understand Islamic Gajis Gori, Gajni, Abdali, Aurgangjeb would have forced by you to use sword to punish the kaffirs like you. How can you object on the Quran teaching which is massage from Allah? You people looks like donkey altogether.
        @Bhramit aka Mohamad=Satan
        Sale if you have guts give me your address, I will beat you in your own house. Dont you have any manner? You are demeaning the prophet (PBUH).

        • MOHAMMED = SATAN. says

          MOHAMMED IS PROPHET OF SATAN.
          I AGREE. UNIVERSE AGREES. WHICH JOKER TOLD YOU I AM BHRAMIT? ANYWAYS, YOU ARE A PIG DEVOID OF TRUTH. LEAVE IT, YOU ARE EMOTIONAL JOKER. IF YOU HAD GUTS, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPLAIN TRUTH RATIONALLY. LEAVE IT, IF A MUSLIM REALLY KNOWS THE MEANING OF RATIONALITY, HE WOULD QUIT ISLAM FIRST OF ALL. SINCE YOU ARE INFINITELY FAILED IN KINDERGARTEN EXAMINATIONS (CLEAR FROM YOUR SPEECH). YOUR SUCH MENTALITY IS OBVIOUS. ANYWAYS, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN FURTHER REPLYING YOU SINCE IT IS SAME AS PUTTING A DEAD PERSON TO LIFE.

          YOU ARE BIGGEST KAFFIR AS YOU ARE FOLLOWER OF THAT ALLAH WHO MADE SATAN AND SATAN REFUSED TO BOW BEFORE HUMANS. YOUR BEHAVIOUR MATCHES WITH SATAN. IN MANY CASES, YOU BEAT EVEN THAT POOR SATAN. (FOR THE REASON, YOUR ALLAH IS WITNESS TO THIS)
          NOW, I CHANGE: SLIM SHAIKH = SATAN ^ INFINITY.

        • Slim Shaikh says

          @MOHAMMED = SATAN
          You have many wrong notions regarding Islam & Prophet. It was prophet (PBUH) who taught us how to keep child wife. How to maintain equality among wives. He gave the regard to slaves woman as his wife. How to secure chastity of women by veiling.

        • Prithvi says

          slim shaikh
          so you proved yourself muslims are nothing but terrorists,rapists,marauders,scoundrels,intolerants,killers and cultist
          good you proved islam is religion of terror and cult.
          you muslims are only competent to ride donkeys and camels.

        • Slim Shaikh says

          @Prithvi
          _________so you proved yourself muslims are nothing but terrorists,rapists,marauders,scoundrels,intolerants,killers and cultist
          good you proved Islam is religion of terror and cult.__________
          Where I said this?
          terrorists: Fighting for true religion is treated as Jehad not terrorism. Jehadi kill only those who are against Islam & Quran.
          rapists: Prophet and his companion given highest respect to the women made slaves in wars. They all treated as wives not slaves. Prophet taken responsibility for their lives & health.

  19. Prithvi says

    Slim Shaikh
    “terrorists: Fighting for true religion is treated as Jehad not terrorism. Jehadi kill only those who are against Islam & Quran”————————

    you are indicating that muslims will kill anybody who descerates quran and islam ,then how Islam is peaceful and tolerant what a myth,so there has been large number of killings ,bombings ,violence in the name of allah in the world and you say this is peace and tolerant, but muslims can easily criticisze other religions.

    “prophet married slave women for their better live and health”——————–

    by killing their husbands ,brothers,fathers prophet married the slave women, why cannot he make their sisters ,daughters arranged the marriage with others, why prophet refused his remarriage for his wives after his death for better life and health.Prophet never banned slavery but make free people his slaves

  20. Vinay Arya says

    I can understand the problem with the Islam.There are false laws said in the Quran.The Muslims have considered those words to be right.But they are illogical.So these Muslims consider illogical facts to be a part of religion.That’s why they are fighting.Yea.If Quran were right then there had been no problem with the so-called Jihadis.But as Quran is wrong the Jihad has become terrorism.

    Muslims cannot concentrate while debating.They always run away when it is proved that Quran is illogical.They cannot say that there are free to dbate without any discrimination.They are not with their free mind.They think what the Quran says is right.If anyone can prove Satyarth Praksh to be false and Vedas also then Arya Samaj is ready to accept these views.But like us these Muslims can not do.These would always say”My Quran is right” even if their Quran is false.

    My advise to the Muslims is that they should be free of discrimiunation.They should not be like politicians who consider OBCs to be low and Generals to be higher.This kind of discrimination should not be there.But Muslims always come with this argue that theri Quran is right.They do not want to hear”Quran is wrong”.They will kill anyone who says so.

    • VEDIC GOD IS GREAT says

      Vinay jee, you are not getting the point. Read Quran 15.9 which says Quran is true book. (The point which is proven wrong by at least 500 scholars worldwide but Muslims would never understand because of thier blind knowledge). Such stupid verses (obviously added by Satan) make Muslims follow this wretched book (A name given not by me but by 50 great thinkers worldwide) blindly and that is responsible for misguidance being propagated in Islam.

      http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm

      Now, coming to a simple statistics;;;
      People who were born Muslims but left Islam in 2010 – 2011: 6 million in Africa; 3 million in Egypt & 1 million in UK.
      Total converts to other religions from Islam in 2010 – 2011: 31 million.
      Since following blind orders of Quran, apostasy is illegal and hence these poor people keep thier apostasy a secret.

  21. samuel says

    10 Avatars in Vedas and Puranas contradicting one another. The Hindu scholars from Northern India believe as under:
    MATSYA, KHOORMA, VARAHA, VAMANA, PARASURAMAN, NARASIMHAM, RAMA, KRISHNA, BUDDHA AND KALI. However, the Hindu scholars from South they do not consider Buddha as a Hindu Avatar as he never believed in the existence of an ALMIGHTY GOD only believed in NIRVANA. So they believe as under pertaining to 10 Avatars.
    MATSYA, KHOORMA, VARAHA, VAMANA, PARASURAMAN, NARASIMHAM, RAMA, BALARAMAN, KRISHNA, AND KALI.

    • Indian Agnostic says

      Namaste samuel

      while pointing fingers at the Hindus you , make sure that you can defend a child with controversial parenthood as God .If any of the Hindu idiosyncrasies is less controversial than that , you may have a dig at them.

      so what’s your defense ?

        • Truth Seeker says

          @samuel
          First of all you should know before writing you stuff here that 10 or 24 God’s Incarnation (Avtar) mentioned in Puran not in Veda. Purans are fraud text like Bibal & Quran. God’s Incarnation is Against Veda. Have not you read Article before posting here. If not go through this article
          “God of Vedas and Hinduism”
          http://agniveer.com/2728/god-vedas-hinduism/

    • KalBhairav says

      @samuel:

      However, the Hindu scholars from South they do not consider Buddha as a Hindu Avatar as he never believed in the existence of an ALMIGHTY GOD only believed in NIRVANA.

      Wrong. Madhva was a Kannadiga. Madhva and his followers, some even to this day, explain the Buddhist concept of Shunyata or Buddha nature along with Brahman. There may be those who do not consider Buddha an avatar, but do keep in mind that the teachings of Buddha were not nihilism. Buddha advised his followers to focus more on this world more than questions of afterlife about which he was agnostic. His followers [Nagarjuna, Dignaga, Dharmakriti, and others] took Buddha’s words to an extreme by denying the self, etc. This is what led to a large body of dialectics between Buddhists and Hindu philosophers. Buddha’s teachings on their own do not deny Brahman.

      • Slim Shaikh says

        @कालभैरव
        अरे तू क्या आलतू फालतू लिखता रहता है मेरी समझ में तो कुछ आता नहीं है! पता नहीं कोई तेरे कमेन्ट पढ़ता भी है या नहीं!

        • KalBhairav says

          @Shaikh:

          अरे तू क्या आलतू फालतू लिखता रहता है मेरी समझ में तो कुछ आता नहीं है!

          Dont worry. Your life is secure. 72 houries in Jannat and all that. Relax. You dont need to worry about other things. ;-)

  22. aman says

    @ Mad Azlan:-
    i think that is how you were born.
    you people dont deserve or digest respect given to you. When everyone is talking gentle then why the hell are you using abusive language?
    its all taught in your religion. nobody gives a damn to what you or your believes have to say. just remember one thing what ever you people do, Allah is noticing that. you will get what you sow.
    i think you need to read your Quran again to know what is the concept of GOD. always trying to compare your religion with others. what do you people get from that. Same is the habbit of your so called zakir naik.
    stay in your religions and keep all your assumptions or home made concepts upto you. or share it with your muslim brothers.
    why dont you respect Krishna, Ram, Hanuman.
    they are also God’s messengers. prophet mohamed was not having a tag on his body stating messenger of God.
    Respect and be Respected

    Peace..

  23. yash says

    agniveer, you mentioned that there are three entities god, soul, and nature.
    but then the concept of devtas do not fit in any of the three, thus these should be taken as part of god, and then since devtas can’t be considered as complete form of god, so they can only be said as his transformed form.

    i think that these three entities are no doubt present but are created by god as his transformed form. some fall in category of maya or avidya like nature, and some fall in vidya like soul and god.

    just like the way you said about separation of god from avidya , in same way when shri madbhagwad purana talks about this vikriti philosophy at the same time it also separates him from maya,
    in second skanda : chapter 5, shloka 18 says that:
    “he is devoid of characteristics of maya and is infinite.
    for creation, sustenance and destruction, the three characteristics raja, satwa and tama are accepted by him.”

    this means he only accepts these characteristics in him for these three purposes but still is different from it.
    shloka 20: ” he covers himself by these three characteristics , so people are unable to know him”.
    this means that whenever you tries to define god as kind, and other nice characteristics , these fall in catagory of satwa guna, and by shloka 18 it is clear that god accepts in him these characteristics for sustenance of universe, his this form is generally considered as vishnu in puranas and thus all the avtars are for sustenance , and are believed to be of vishnu.
    even then, this shloka makes it clear that god whom puranas are referring is not vishnu but when we talk of god available for us, he is certainly narayan or vishnu.

    now further, this philosophy is explained from shloka 21 to 25, that how the universe came into being by acceptance of characteristics by god and it’s transformation.

    • says

      Namaste Yash

      ——but then the concept of devtas do not fit in any of the three——

      Devta in Sanskrit means an entity with ‘useful qualities’. So mother, father, friend, water, fire, etc are all Devatas. But there is no mention in Vedas that Devatas be worshipped.
      —–some fall in category of maya or avidya like nature, and some fall in vidya like soul and god.——

      Avidya and Vidya are properties (Guna) and soul and God are entities (Guni) possessing these properties.

      ——in same way when shri madbhagwad purana talks about this vikriti philosophy—–

      Bhagwat Purana conflicts Vedas at many places and thus cant be taken at face value in serious philosophical matters.

      ——-“he is devoid of characteristics of maya and is infinite.——-

      Agreed.

      ——–this means he only accepts these characteristics in him for these three purposes but still is different from it.——–

      Eeshvar is different from Prakriti. He controls Prakriti but never accepts its properties as Hiss own. There is diference b/w controlling something and become one with it.

      ———” he covers himself by these three characteristics , so people are unable to know him”.——–

      True God will never cover Himself to lead people astray. So He never covers Himself. Rather Souls are covered by Avidya due to their own Karma and Sanskaras.

      ——–all the avtars are for sustenance , and are believed to be of vishnu.——–

      Eeshvar sustains universe even today without Avatar. So He can always do it without changing His traits. He is formless and remains so always.

      • yash says

        namaste vajra.

        1. you said devtas are entities with useful qualities like father, mother, fire etc but are not worshiped.
        while actually rig veda starts with word ” agnimile” , means agni ki stuti karte hain.
        worship should not be taken like that of islamic philosophy. in hinduism those people whao have good qualities and those who are responsible for out sustenance are respected or you can say worshiped.
        like for a child , his mother is his god, for a wife her husband is her pati parmeshwar, and for saints also these devtas are worshiped like fire, food etc.

        2. avidya is not a separate gun but simply absence of vidya. avidya is not a characteristics of soul, it is a characteristics of sthula sharira, souls is just entrapped in this maya, and there are seven doors ( seven chakras ), which should be opened by mind to reach at soul, the form of god.

        3. about bhagwad purana , i think it was written in order to understand vedas more clearly, and people with less knowledge were given freedom to choose their dharmas from it, who were not able to understand vedas. but to judge bhagwad purana we should also have true knowledge of vedas. but i think at present it’s extremely difficult. i started reading vedas meaning at aarya samaj website, and they made a mistake in the very first verse. in meaning of hotaram ratnadhatamam. i think the whole agni purana is based on this line, the science of gemstones. but they are taking it’s meaning as shlpvidya which is wrong.

        4. i think all the things are controlled internally, not externally. this thing is again like islamic philosophy which thinks that god controls universe on remote control.
        you can see, all the changes occur in nature are internal, not like any external ray or energy coming into them.
        and this internal control implies that controller is inside it, but in different form. you see that’s why science is easily able to explain every phenomena without any need of god.

        5. for last comment i will only say that, soul are not covered but are…

        • Truth Seeker says

          @yash
          Namaste brother,
          Your understating of Rigveda Mantra 1/1/1 is not correct. Although it is not easy task to understand whole science of Mantra but this will be helpful to you & you can explore more.
          Rigveda Mantra 1/1/1
          अ॒ग्निनमी॑ळे पु॒रोहि॑तं यज्ञ॒स्य॑ दे॒वम्रत्विज॑म्।
          होता॑रं रत्न॒धात॑मम् ॥१॥ – ऋ० १।१।१
          “Agnimedey Purohitam Yajasya Devam, Ritvijam Hotaaram Ratandhaatamam .”

          I worship/glorify (Idey) the God who is most supreme (“Agni” made of Agrinni Dhatu means who is existed even before its creation ) & source of all light (Agni), Who is (PUROHITAM) ‘Puraha’ i.e., ‘Puri’ like Janakpuri, Vikaspuru etc. So, this entire universe is a ‘Puri’. (HITAM) means one who wishes welfare i.e., holds, cares, nurses, protects. So, God is our Purohitam i.e., He only takes care providing with all comforts, nurses us with food etc., and protects us always. That is why, Purohitam is also the name of God.
          Who is doer/giver (Hotram/priest) of Cosmic Sacrifice (yajasya) by creating-preservation-dissolution of this universe. (The universe is comparable
          to an eternal sacrifice, in which God is the Principal Priest.)
          (RITVIJAM) means whom we worship in all seasons
          (RATNADHATAMAM) i.e., and Supreme Sustainer of all the jewel-like
          planets that decorate the cosmic Drama. (The Cosmic Drama:The Universe
          presents itself as a drama in which the sun, moon, planets, etc. are principal actors.)
          http://www.vjsingh.info/homa.html

          • yash says

            thanks for this meaning. i was expecting this type of meaning , and i also wanted to consider devtas as just different powers or names of god with different characteristics , so even though if we worship god on these different names, we worship same god.
            i also want to add that i think ratnadhatamam refers to the science of gemstones ( both the gemstones which originated in magma and holded by it, and which are given by it, and those planets which are like gemstones ) because in astrology gemstones and planets have certain relations.

  24. yash says

    further the formless god is explained in second skanda, chapter 9:
    shloka 32: ” before the origin of universe, it was only me, there was nothing except me, neither sthula, nor sukshma nor the cause of these both agyan. where there is not this universe, i am there also, and in this universe whatever is being felt is also me, and after end of it, whatever will be left will also be me.”

    32: “actually, those things which actually do not exist but are felt in me, other than me should be considered as my maya.”
    here those things are referred as maya which are not permanent, come in existance for a short duration and then dissolve again in true form of god. these things are felt like something other than god, but are actually not.

    34: in bodies of living beings, the five elements enter to form it, but at the same time being in their respective forms do not enter in it, just like that in their bodies i entered in form of soul, but at same time, since nothing exists except me, i am not in them.

    nature is full of evidences of this transformation philosophy.
    like water turns to ice. but ice can’t act like water.
    like energy turns to matter.

    in the same way, universe is transformed form of god, but even then can’t act like god.
    this is proper definition of god being omnipresent.

    • says

      Yash

      ——-shloka 32: ” before the origin of universe, it was only me, there was nothing except me, neither sthula, nor sukshma nor the cause of these both agyan.——-

      Then who created Agyan and who got suffered from it when there was none other than God?

      ——-nature is full of evidences of this transformation philosophy.
      like water turns to ice. but ice can’t act like water.——–

      But neither of water and ice claim self to be Real and other to be imaginary. Is that the same case with God and Prakriti? No. So this analogy does not work.

      ——-in the same way, universe is transformed form of god, but even then can’t act like god.——-

      Neither universe can act like God nor God can act like universe. Both are DIFFERENT. And mind you ice and water are also different.

      ——-this is proper definition of god being omnipresent.——-

      I found Agniveer’s definition more convincing. You confused God’s omnipresence with Him being single entity in reality. But that is not correct. ‘OMNI’ itself suggests that there are other entities than God too. When we say- X is the first in class, that automatically means there are others too in the class among which X is first. Similarly OMNIpresent means someone who is present in ALL.

      Regards

      • yash says

        1. first comment was like the question who created satan.
        i continue from my last 5th comment which couldn’t come there completely.
        i think presence of avidya is necessary for balance. like night is required for importance of day. imagine if someone got all knowledge about his previous birth, his present life will be troubled. animals can live their life only because of this avidya, other wise they will feel deep sensation of pain. this is like level of anesthesia. somewhere there is complete lack of sensation to feel less pain like non living things. this is mainly nature or maya.
        according to you, world should work perfectly, but in reality there is no perfection. everything has defects and these defects are necessary to feel the necessity of perfection. and then finally man realizes that only god is perfect, nothing else.

        2. in analogy of ice and water, the real state is only assimilation of molecules h2o.
        they get assimilated in different environments to give different shape, but any of these states are not real. there are temporary.

        3. what if i say god can act like universe? whatever is happening are all done by god.
        ice and water are different in their characteristics but are composed of same kind of molecules. thus they are different but even then same.

        by the way , i want to know whether, there is any mantra in vedas which define this prakriti and soul and also make them eternal?

        thank you.

      • Truth Seeker says

        @samir
        Will any one refute this person? He has thrown many challenges to all Islamic scholars across the world including Zakir Niak but no one have dare to accept his challenge. & There is price also of 50000$ if any one wins and shut up site. Why Muslim Scholars do not want win debate with him? Why do they scare ?
        http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
        My Debate with a Shiite Mullah on What Makes Us Human

    • AgonyVeer says

      @Samir

      The Very Talented “Agniveer” supplies Two links Claiming them to be Refutations of The Video (vedas have been changed) dated April 27 2011…

      Link 1– Mantras in the Veda (March 28 2011)
      Link 2– Textual Corruption In Veda (June 16 2011) (Final Response)

      But was Agniveer successful in Refuting as He suggests “They have already been long refuted in Link 1 Link 2″ ???

      The answer Is “NO” … Know Why & Know How ???

      Click on the Link Below and Read the article dated—– JUNE 23 2011 ( 7 days after Agniveer’s Final response ie Link 2) and Judge who got Owned !!!

      http://www.islamhinduism.com/responses/answering-agniveer/116-debunking-agniveer-textual-corruption-in-vedas

        • Truth Seeker says

          @Vajra & KB
          Namaste Brothers
          Thanks to God, great Vajra &KB come back. Your arrival fills us with energy especially me.
          @AgonyVeer
          Veda are corrupt or not whatever you believe, No one going to kill you just for not believing in anything. But we should remember what holy prophet teach us
          “slay them(Non-believer in prophet) wherever ye catch them.” (Q 2:191)
          http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/
          My Debate with a Shiite Mullah on What Makes Us Human

          • KalBhairav says

            @TS:

            Nice to be back too :-)

            You reached Quran 2:191? I tried earnestly to read the Quran, but got stuck in 2:6, 2:7 itself. :-(

            Could not move forward from there.

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Vajra
            Brother Vajra I am not on facebook. But I think facebook will right place to post comments. Actually Islamhiduismdotcom has blocked my user ID and deleted my comments also. I am not familiar with facebook as to how discussion takes place there but I think after few days passing there I will like it. What you think?

          • says

            Bro TS

            Absolutely. Even if you dont comment there, at least we would be in touch forever. And I advice you not to go to terrorists’ sites. There can be no consensus b/w terrorists and peaceful people. They are preparing for Ghazwa e Hind by hook or crook. Some of them will write ‘rebuttals’ to our work and challenge us to refute so that we take our eyes off from the real threat and waste our energy on countering baseless arguments.

            We need to understand that even logic and reasoning have their domains. Outside that, they are of no use. I shall never allow any terrorist to question my peaceful belief (whether right or wrong will come later) unless he leaves terrorism.

          • AgonyVeer says

            @Truth Seeker/True Deceiver

            Perhaps the deliberate omission of the verse preceding Qur’an 2:191 adds spice to your Low Life but anyways Let’s consider it for the sake of those who are misinformed.

            Qur’an 2:190
            “Fight in the way of Allah Those who Fight You but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors”

            Qur’an 2:191
            “And slay them wherever you may come upon them, and drive them away from wherever they drove you away – for oppression is even worse than killing. And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship (al-Masjid al- Haram) unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them: such shall be the recompense of those who deny the truth.

            The verse Qur’an 2:190
            Clearly provides the Condition to Fight only those who Fight against you ( the Combatants ) further it prohibits breaking the laws of war which means No civilians,No Old-women- Children,No Unarmed Person etc should be attacked.

            So be at Peace Mate.

          • Truth Seeker says

            @AgonyVeer
            __________Fight in the way of Allah Those who Fight_______
            Above verse clearly explains the people who do not believe in pedophiliac prophet and Allah of Quran kill them wherever you found them if they are weak opponent. 80% population of world do not believe in Islam & prophet Mohammed. According to this people like me, Varja, KB , Agniveer, Ali Sina etc. who are against Islamic ideology and help the victim to come out from the trap of Islam should be killed.
            _________Allah does not like transgressors__________
            But Quran’s Allah likes the people who makes sex slave to the women of Kufrs, child marriage etc. prophet Mohammad himself exemplify before others by doing this. Should prophet footsteps be followed?
            And (How Islam abolished the slavery)
            http://alisina.org/mariyah-the-sex-slave-of-the-holy-prophet/
            Mariyah, the Sex Slave of the Holy Prophet
            ________And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship (al-Masjid al- Haram) unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them_______Quran 2:191
            The verse seems totally nonsense. If they are not near Al-Masjid-al-Haram then Muslim should fight with them not matter they fight or not.
            ________such shall be the recompense of those who deny the truth._________
            Will you worship/respect the person who kills one’s all family male members and makes slave women of one’s house just for not believing in his ideology / words?

        • AgonyVeer says

          @Vajra Pukes ….Errr “Yes, IITians are very talented, nothing new about this. But when you know this, why bring your Madarsa replies every time and get humiliated?”

          That is News to Me… Look how quickly time passes by.All these years i was under the same old brand new impression of the IIT’s. Its only now that i have learnt They incorporated a Few Newer Courses such as ” Fooling Mechanics (FM), Strength of Manipulation (SOM), Deception of Minds (DOM), Hate & Must Transfer (HMT) etc.. Cheers !

          Hey ! No Wonder They also would be providing ” Licensed to Lie ” on your Certificate of Character….awesome, isn’t it ?
          Cool Job …Guys !!!

          My Madarsa comments are way too good for your Understanding.And yes Save those smileys for the bad times..You will not have to wait for Long..

          • says

            Agony

            ——-Save those smileys for the bad times..You will not have to wait for Long..——-

            Why? Planning to blast another bomb somewhere and going directly to 72 houris?

      • KalBhairav says

        @AgonyVeer:

        Did not a goat eat two chapters of the Quran from under Ayesha’s bed as all and sundry were mourning Mo’s death? IIRC, they were chapters related to breastfeeding [LOL] and stoning people to death [even greater LOL]. Goat > Allah?

        • AgonyVeer says

          @Kallu/Kal Bhairav said “Did not a goat eat two chapters of the Quran from under Ayesha’s bed as all and sundry were mourning Mo’s death? IIRC, they were chapters related to breastfeeding [LOL] and stoning people to death [even greater LOL]”

          ——> How did you know that those chapters contained breastfeeding and stoning people manuals ???
          Oh pause for a moment…yes…yes..Good Lord !!! i think its feasible…
          Bingo ! Since you know too much about that incident i can not rule out the possibility that some 1400 years ago You were Born as The “Goatee” who Chewed too Much… Awe ! you have been such a bad Goatee i can tell you…Ummm ! But you haven’t changed much eversince that Janam…Looks like you haven’t learnt the lessons Despite being punished over and over again in every Janam…

          Chill Goat ! ooopppsss .. I mean Chill Mate !!

          • yash says

            though quran is itself a corrupted book, ( have a look at this http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Qur'an
            and
            http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Corruption_of_the_Qur%27an)
            but the most important thing is your prophet lied about your god allah.
            and here is it’s proof:

            Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have CUT OFF HIS LIFE ARTERY (AORTA). (Hilali-Khan)

            Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, then We would certainly have CUT OFF HIS AORTA. (Shakir)

            and exactly this thing happened, proving that he lied.

            Sahih al-Bukhari 4428—The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I FEEL AS IF MY AORTA IS BEING CUT FROM THAT POISON”

            Sunan Abu Dawud 4449—Umm Bishr said to the Prophet during the sickness of which he died: What do you think about your illness, Apostle of Allah? I do not think about the illness of my son except the poisoned sheep of which he had eaten with you at Khaibar. The Prophet said: And I do not think about my illness except that. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN IT CUT OFF MY AORTA.

          • SDC says

            It seems that by eating the Quran, KB has successfully been able to rise up the ladder. Look, he has incarnated as a human. Alas! maha-mad (sabko pagal bana wala) could do nothing about it. And above all what made Allah so effete as to not being able to condemn KB to eternal hell and roast him perpetually there. So, this goes to prove that sanatanis have an edge over the maha-maddens.

  25. AgonyVeer says

    @Kal Bhairav

    Im running out of time but anyways the Hadith you have presented is Sunan Ibn Majah’s Hadith. His collection came centuries later than the FIVE earlier ones out of which Sahih Muslim & Sahih Bukhari are the Prominent ones… Any Hadith that does not match these or contradicts these Two Main hadiths, should be Dropped/Rejected.. This is the Rule..

    But Inshallah ! i will check it once more…

    Thank you

    • says

      Agony

      What does your rule say about this? Where do you find verse of Rajm in Modern day Wahabi Quran? Enjoy.. :)

      SAHIH Bukhari [9:424]

      “No doubt, Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed to him the Book (Qur’an),
      and among WHAT WAS REVEALED WAS THE VERSE OF AR-RAJM (stoning adulterers to death).'” (See Hadith No. 817,Vol. 8)

      • AgonyVeer says

        @Vajra

        aw aw !! Same old trick ?? Okay.. What you suggest is Modern Day Wahabi Qur’an has Rejected the so called Verse (Ar-Rajm) hmm ?
        Brother !! Then you must go looking for the Ancient Versions of Qur’an and Find the one which has not excluded the verse Ar-Rajm …
        Hey wait i am not finished yet…Before you start searching for that version here is the clue ” SUCH A VERSION NEVER DID EXIST ”

        Why ?? Simple :Just like the Purana’s can not be preferred over the Vedas..

        I wished to elaborate on the answer but then it would be a lengthy and tiresome process copy pasting it from sites… But you can always follow the Link below to get a better understanding

        http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/preservation_of_noble_quran.htm

        Oh just to Remind you … Please Remove those Dark Glasses that you wore while writing me back… You won’t see the Truth otherwise..

        • says

          Brother/Sister Agony

          When KB gave you Hadith of Ibn Majah, you asked for SAHIH Bukhari and when we gave SB, you jumped to Puranas :) Didn’t you write this

          “””””Hadith you have presented is Sunan Ibn Majah’s Hadith. His collection came centuries later than the FIVE earlier ones out of which Sahih Muslim & Sahih Bukhari are the Prominent ones””””””

          ——–SUCH A VERSION NEVER DID EXIST———

          Tell this to Shiites who believe in Quran of 16000 verses.

          ——-Please Remove those Dark Glasses that you wore ——-

          Sorry friend, all this is as per Quran [2:6,7]. Its not just dark glasses but seal on my heart and veil on eyes by merciful Allah that She decided way back while writing Lohe Mehfooz :(

      • AgonyVeer says

        @Kal Bhairav

        awee !! you are so Innocent ..ummmm !!! Tell you whattt ?
        Take it easy… Go Slow.. Stick to your Veda’s and keep waiting till Mahdi emerges out with the Original Qur’an as claimed by the Shia’s..either ways your destination shall remain unchanged and Allah knows the Best.
        But what if Mahdi surprises you with the same copy of Qur’an that WE have had and believed in for the past 1400 years ? o god ! in that case you will have to Help Yourself surviving the last shock of your life.

        • says

          Agony

          ——But what if Mahdi surprises you with the same copy of Qur’an——

          And WHAT IF Mahdi surprises you with same copy of Quran having the words ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ interchanged or ‘Allah’ and ‘Satan’ interchanged or ‘Momin’ and ‘Kafir’ interchanged ;)

          Umbrella of WHAT IF is too big dear friend! Prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, Ali, Aga Khan etc are all waiting there :(

          • AgonyVeer says

            @Vajra

            “And WHAT IF Mahdi surprises you with same copy of Quran having the words ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ interchanged or ‘Allah’ and ‘Satan’ interchanged or ‘Momin’ and ‘Kafir’ interchanged ”

            In an impetuous attempt my friend you have gone too far flying with your fantasies. Let me introduce a suitable term “ChuTarka” (C****ya Banane wala Tark) for your blunt approach.

            Now considering your Chutarka what happens if the words such as (Allah-Heaven-Momin) are interchanged with (satan-Hell-kafir) in the Qur’an ?

            Brother What do you expect will happen if The Word ‘Cow’ is interchanged with The Word ‘Donkey’ ? Will their Physical Identities and their Individual Properties Change too ? Obviously NoT.

            The Conclusion is
            1.You being a Sanatan Dharmi anticipate the Coming of Mahdi (a.s)
            Wow !

            2.You also expect Him to emerge with a Qur’an in His Hands but not Veda’s . Hilarious !

            3. I Do Not need to tell Where You are Heading for…

        • KalBhairav says

          @Agony:

          Well, sure. If I am going to hell, I am going to hell. Quran 2:6-7 clearly says that Allah has sealed our hearts.

          But I think hell will be a very interesting place. For one, I will meet many of my ancestors whom I never met because they passed before my birth. Also, I have some doubts on some physics…so I guess I will want to meet Einstein there. Then, there are a few Indian Philosophers I would like to meet also. So, I am looking forward to going to hell actually. :-) Plus, there will be 72 sects of Muslims who are following the wrong version of Islam. Perhaps YOU WILL BE THERE ALSO!!! I would love to put a face to the posters here on Agniveer. It will indeed be great to finally MEET you in person. This is unless of course you belong to the 1 sect of 73 whom Mohammed promised [Jannat].

          What will YOU be doing in heaven, friend for the rest of eternity [assuming you belong to the one correct sect of 73]?

          • AgonyVeer says

            @Kal Bhairav

            “But I think hell will be a very interesting place. For one, I will meet many of my ancestors whom I never met because they passed before my birth. Also, I have some doubts on some physics…so I guess I will want to meet Einstein there. Then, there are a few Indian Philosophers I would like to meet also. So, I am looking forward to going to hell actually.”

            —Since you have made up your Mind for an everlasting refuge in Hell,There is not much one can do about it.Whatever makes you happy.Forget about clearing your doubts on physics and Philosophies,it won’t make any difference once you are IN.—-

            “Plus, there will be 72 sects of Muslims who are following the wrong version of Islam. Perhaps YOU WILL BE THERE ALSO!!! I would love to put a face to the posters here on Agniveer. It will indeed be great to finally MEET you in person. This is unless of course you belong to the 1 sect of 73 whom Mohammed promised [Jannat].
            What will YOU be doing in heaven, friend for the rest of eternity ?”

            Being a Muslim by Name and Not by Practice does not give Me or Anyone a one way ticket to Jannah.One has to Strive for it.Yes there are different sects that might not make it to Jannah unless they Follow Qur’an and the Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).But then Allah is the Most Merciful and Allah knows the Best and one can not decide on the Fate of the Believers But Allah. Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..

            1.Now what will You be doing after your companions In Hell (72 sects) Abandon You Never to Return back ??

            2.You don’t have to go to Hell to Meet Me for Two Reasons

            a) You may or may not find me in Hell.There is a 50-50 chance ??

            b)Stay with Me here and I will show You the Hell on Earth..

    • AgonyVeer says

      @Kallu Aka Kal Bhairav

      Amazingly The Video says it all Sweety !

      Thanks for Making Me a Witness to Your Desperation ,Frustration and Helplessness.All I can do is to Pity you my Friend.

  26. KalBhairav says

    @Agonyveer:

    Since you have made up your Mind for an everlasting refuge in Hell,There is not much one can do about it.

    It is all in Allah’s hands. He can simply remove the seal he has placed on my heart per Quran 2:6-7. Allah is great. But as of now, with the free will that he gave me I have no choice but to reject Islam as a cooked up religion. Either he could not have given me free will and made me submit to him. Now that he HAS given me free will AND placed a seal on my heart [2:6-7], he is having one less submitter to him. As I said, it is all in Allah’s hands…just remove the seal Allah and then I will become a willing believer in Allah! Allaho Akbar then!

    Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..

    Wait a sec…So, hell and heaven are not eternal? Folks can get to move from one to another?

    • AgonyVeer says

      @ Kal Bhairav says

      “It is all in Allah’s hands. He can simply remove the seal he has placed on my heart per Quran 2:6-7. Allah is great. But ‘AS OF NOW’, with the free will that he gave me I have no choice but to reject Islam as a cooked up religion.”

      —> “AS OF NOW’ indicates your present state of mind. You are Rejecting Islam NOW. But you are not sure what future holds for you. Again there is a 50% chance that you Might or Might Not Reject Islam if Future. This ambiguity is a Result of the Free Will.
      And Since You Totally Have Not Denied /Ruled Out the Possibility of Occurrence of any such Event (Accepting Islam) Concludes that Allah has NOT set a Seal upon your Heart or Hearing..
      Is there any Compulsion upon you or any Non-Believer to Accept Islam Due to the Fear of Going to Hell ??? Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ???
      So Take it or Leave NOT through Assumptions/Ego but base it upon your sincere and Honest approach to seeking the Right Path.Your Heart will only be Sealed when You Knowingly/Deliberately choose to follow the Other Path,
      Rejecting and Denying the existence of Allah.—

      “Irrespective of whether or not the Believers make it in their First attempt, Inshallah ! They will One Day for Sure Enter the Paradise..

      Wait a sec…So, hell and heaven are not eternal? Folks can get to move from one to another?”

      —> Friend ! Why would the Hell and Heaven not remain Eternal and Everlasting if the so called Folks (Imperfect Believers ) get transferred from Hell to Heaven ???

      • KalBhairav says

        @AgonyVeer:

        Again there is a 50% chance that you Might or Might Not Reject Islam if Future.

        How is this? What is the chance that I might or might not reject Christianity in the future? What is the chance that I might or might not reject Sikhism in the future? Seems like when we have mutually exclusive events, covering the entire possibility of events, the possibility of one event is < 50%. So, please reframe this probability thing.

        And Since You Totally Have Not Denied /Ruled Out the Possibility of Occurrence of any such Event (Accepting Islam) Concludes that Allah has NOT set a Seal upon your Heart or Hearing..

        Who are the folks on whom Allah has set the seal on their hearts per Quran 2:6-7? Glad to know I am not one of them [according to you], but who are these people and why does Allah have to seal their hearts?

        Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ???

        If you do NOT believe in something it does not mean that that thing does not exist. For instance, many Muslims believe that Jesus is not God. That does not mean that Jesus was NOT God! Same for Krishna, etc.

        I said that I am looking forward to hell because there are going to be more interesting people there.

        Your Heart will only be Sealed when You Knowingly/Deliberately choose to follow the Other Path, Rejecting and Denying the existence of Allah

        Quran 2:6-7 makes no mention of this. It says that Allah has himself sealed the hearts of disbelievers. There is no explanation prior to this verse of what caused Allah to seal their hearts. :-(

        Friend ! Why would the Hell and Heaven not remain Eternal and Everlasting if the so called Folks (Imperfect Believers ) get transferred from Hell to Heaven ???

        Oh, so your point is that come judgement day, there will begin eternaility of heaven and hell. But those in heaven can get transfered to hell and vice versa? What would be…

        • KalBhairav says

          Continuing…

          What would be the causative factors of transferring between heaven and hell? It seems like your conception of Islamic afterlife is closer to Hinduism with reincarnation, etc. If not, how is it different?

          • AgonyVeer says

            Kal Bhairav said

            “Oh, so your point is that come judgement day, there will begin eternaility of heaven and hell. But those in heaven can get transfered to hell and vice versa? What would be…”

            —–> What does Eternal Mean ? i think it Means Everlasting/Never Ending/Ageless etc…
            So Hell and Heaven are like two Eternal Homes. I do not understand why would this Eternal State be affected with the transfer of those imperfect folks back to Heaven once they have faced punishment in Hell for their Sins.
            When you shift to a NEW house from your OLD one, Does it make any difference to the Position,Structure etc of the Old Home ?
            The answer Is a Big NO… its common sense.

        • AgonyVeer says

          @Kal Bhairav

          Excuse Me ! You said ” As of Now I reject Islam ” but you did not specify the likelihood of any other events (religions).Perhaps you are Ignoring the context Where in We have considered only Hinduism(which you represent) and Islam(which i represent).
          Considering the above there are finally 2 events and i think my argument holds good.

          Context : [ Is there any Compulsion upon you or any Non-Believer to Accept Islam Due to the Fear of Going to Hell ???
          Logically speaking why would a Non Believer Fear the Infernos of Hell when in the first place He does not Believe in the existence of Allah,the creator of that Hell ]

          Your Response— “If you do NOT believe in something it does not mean that that thing does not exist. For instance, many Muslims believe that Jesus is not God. That does not mean that Jesus was NOT God! Same for Krishna, etc.”

          My Response —-> Because you don’t believe in Hell and Allah,You mean to say that You are scared of Hell and Allah Exists too ?? isn’t it a self defeating argument from your side ??

          Friend You said :
          “Quran 2:6-7 makes no mention of this. It says that Allah has himself sealed the hearts of DISBELIEVERS . THERE IS NO MENTION PRIOR to this verse of WHAATcaused Allah to seal THEIR hearts.”

          Qur’an 2:6 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ

          “BEHOLD, as for ***THOSE WHO*** ARE BENT ON DENYING THE TRUTH – it is all one to them whether thou warnest them or dost not warn them: they will not believe.

          Qur’an 2:7 خَتَمَ اللّهُ عَلَى قُلُوبِهمْ وَعَلَى سَمْعِهِمْ وَعَلَى أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عظِيمٌ

          ” God; has Sealed **THEIR** hearts and **THEIR** hearing, and over **THEIR** eyes is a veil; and awesome suffering awaits **THEM**.

          Is there Really (No) Mention Of WHAT caused Allah to seal THEIR hearts ??

          (Alhumdulillah ) Without any Doubt Allah HAS Mentioned the Reason for Sealing their Hearts…

          • AgonyVeer says

            Continued :

            Is there Really (No) Mention Of WHAT caused Allah to seal THEIR hearts ??
            (Alhumdulillah ) Without any Doubt Allah HAS Mentioned the Reason for Sealing their Hearts in CLEAR WORDS

            (as For ***THOSE WHO*** ARE BENT ON DENYING THE TRUTH….)
            i:e Who are HELL Bent and Leave No Stones Unturned to Deny the TRUTH by being Injudicious and Dishonest while searching for TRUTH.

          • KalBhairav says

            @Agony:

            Firstly, even within Hinduism and Islam, there are different sects and subsects. You want me to convert to Islam. The Pope wants me to convert to Catholicism, etc. So, for me the % of event is not 50%. Dont try and impose some arbitrary contexts to claim a figure of 50%. The % is a lot lower.

            You mean to say that You are scared of Hell and Allah Exists too

            I said I am looking forward to Islamic hell, because it will be full of interesting people. Heaven will be boring for me. Explain what you will be doing in heaven and then I can decide.

            Are the people denying the truth because Allah sealed their hearts or did Allah seal their hearts because they denied the truth?

            Also, explain what this truth is. I am curious.

  27. KalBhairav says

    @Agony:

    Please clarify…as an infidel, will I burn in eternal hell forever along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims? OR, will I be given the chance along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims to gaining entry into heaven? Can people in heaven go to hell? What are the causative factors that make Allah transfer folks from hell to heaven and vice versa?

    I asked this already. Plz clarify.

    • Truth Seeker says

      @Visitors
      it will depend on “Allah Will” which sect goes to heaven which not. And there is nowhere verses in Holy Quran about transferring the souls heaven to hell and vice-versa. Allah only purpose to create us to get worshiped himself. Whoever worshiped to Allah be Osama, Kasab, Mohammed etc not matter worshiper is pedophilia, child abuser, terrorist, rapist etc will be in heaven and who does not worship will be eternal hell may be Mahatma Gandhi, Buddha, Einstien etc.
      Worship is most important for Allah. Mostly focus in Quran is on worship and belief in prophet, Allah & Quran.
      Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 445:
      Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet said, “Gabriel said to me, ‘Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire).” The Prophet was asked. “Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?” He replied, “Even then.”

      For disbelievers there is no salvation.
      [al-Ma’idah 5:36] As for those who disbelieve, lo! if all that is in the earth were theirs, and as much again therewith, to ransom them from the doom on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful doom.

      [al-Kahf 18:106] That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers.

      • says

        @ Truthseeker,

        Dont you think that your Allah is being little unfair? you said whoever worships allah will go to heaven, no matter if he is a terrorist, child abuser, rapist etc etc…
        how is that fair? if he is believed to be God, how can he say such things. Let me tell you.. Its all BULLSHIT. keep your sad philosphies upto you only. nobody is really interested in knowing whether they have a seat in hell or heaven. Whatever a human does, accordingly he gets his reward. you really think osama, kasab or muhamed are going to heaven after committing so much of crime? we people have no rights to judge anyone. God is there and that is his job to reward his human beings according to their doings. God’s worship doesnt mean sayoing prayers and killing innocent people. even if you dont worship God and love his people without considering their religion and castes, he ll be more than happy. All the people in the world love their ow religions. you and me cannot change them. According to you, your religion is better and likewise for every other person its the same. Do good and there is no point in arguing and making statements about your religion and showing it superior than others. remember one thing… GOD IS ONE.
        whatever you do good or bad is known to him..
        take care and try to love your fellow beings no matter what their religion or castes are.

        • Truth Seeker says

          @Amandeep
          Brother,
          When you start arguing & reasoning with Quranic verses you are not Muslim from that time. Brother, You should have firm belief in Quran, prophet & Allah. Allah is all merciful he can forgive all sinners including rapist, child-abuser, pedophilia, criminal, murders, terrorist etc but not non-beleiver in prophet Mohammad/idol worshipers. Non-believer/Idol worshiper are worst creatures and Muslims should not do any friendship with them & if possible kill the them wherever you found them as holy prophet instructed to his followers.
          Some people find Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) statements contradictory and try to reconcile them like this
          Muhammad in his farewell sermon said, “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you,” with the fact that in his deathbed he said, “No two religions are allowed in Arabia” and ordered the forced conversion, expulsion or ethnic cleansing of the Jews and Christians and the massacre of Pagans?
          and on these basis they start condemnation of Islam. With reasoning & logics you can not understand Islam.

          • Amandeep Singh says

            @truthseeker,

            Allah is merciful and he can forgive rapists, murderers and child abusers but cant forgive non believers in muhammed. i really dont care what you, quran, muhammed or ur allah has to say. how can killing non believers in islam be allowed. definietly your allah whom you people think is the sole operator in islam is not God in any means. if these are his teachings and philosphies than we are really blessed to be born in a different religion. how can someone kill an innocent person for no reason. anyways whatever is written in your book is written by you people only. God cannot make such statements. you can go through the religious books and you ll find the difference. in all the religions there is always a concept of love. Love your fellow beings rather than hating them or killing them just because they belong to a different religion. and to be honest with you, i have no interest at all to go through your book or anything for that matter.
            i am happy the way we are taught. i am blessed by the Almighty master to send me to a very nice and respected religion. Its time for you people to change your mentality and live like humans.
            hope you can understand.

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Amandeep
            You are talking in language of Ali Sina who believes Isalm & humanity are not compatible. A Muslim can not be human and a human cannot be Muslim. Humanity teaches us we should love the people irrespective of their different belief, faith, culture etc. But prophet Instructed to his followers Kill the non-believers/polytheist wherever you found them. Brother you are also going to be like atheist Ali-Sina. It is not good sign from the Islamic point of view. But I am happy you believe in humanity.
            And you must read this article to learn what makes us human.
            http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/

          • Amandeep Singh says

            @ Truthseeker,

            So finally you believe that you are people are not human beings?? for you muhammed is more important than God? that cruel person has used you people to get his mission accomplished. to kill innocent people. what does a non believer in muhammed do to you? he is not harming you or saying anything bad abt you. why is he treated so badly and then how do you people expect respect from the world? muhammed has clearly used you people. in your mecca madina there is no entry for non muslim person… but in other religions, all are treated equally. all are treated with due respect without thinking abt religion. because each and everyone is created by the Almighty Master. how can you be cruel to that Master’s children.
            Remember one thing… What goes around, comes around…

            take care

          • Truth Seeker says

            Some Correction
            Humanity is path of Veda. Whoever believe in humanity on Vedic path.

          • Amandeep SIngh says

            @ Truthseeker
            i am also no more Muslim since 3 years.
            What do you mean by this? were you muslim before and now converted or you never were a muslim. and if you are not a muslim then why are supporting them? look i have nothing personal with any of them. because i believe in God and i also believe the fact that some way or the other we all are connected to each other. so there is no point in hating anyone. i believe that everyone has the rights to worship God in their own ways. for me Humanity and Love is the biggest religion in this world.
            but what i dont like is the comparisons between religions. if muslims think their religion is greater than anyone, thats fine and we cannot change their mentality. for every person, their religion is the best.but the problem comes when muslims try to act over smart saying all the rubbish of this world to Hinduism and Christians. i believe in the concept of RESPECT & BE RESPECTED…
            i believe in God and i worship with my heart and soul.
            and i have his fear in my mind and heart. because whatever we do its known to him.
            take care.

          • Truth Seeker says

            @Amandeep SIngh
            _______i believe in God and i worship with my heart and soul____
            But do not come before Muslims where they are in power. They will kill you within no time as Allah awards highest heaven & forgive all sins when a Muslim kills to a kaffir or non-believer in pedophilia prophet as prophet instructed to his followers. Kasab, Osama, Afjal were just victim of prophet teachings.
            what makes us human.
            http://alisina.org/islam-the-religion-ofs-moral-relativism/

          • Amandeep Singh says

            @truthseeker

            Who cares abt what their so called allah awards to whom…certainly i dont. and abt that muhammed , he was the biggest kaffir in ur language. you know what happened with osama and ends of kasab and other culprites are not far away. definetly according to the definition that muslims give abt allah and muhammed, it seems both of themare at the negative ends… but again who cares…
            all that is written in koran is written by someone who doesnt even know the meaning of God. you arguing with muslim is like wastage of time and energy… they are like pigs no matter how much you hit them they will still go and eat shit only. i hope God gives you people little bit of brains. you people are just brain washed by your sad so called preachers.
            anyways no body really cares abt you in the society… no matter how nicely you treat a pig, it will still go and eat that shit only…..

            take care once again…
            PEACE….

    • AgonyVeer says

      @Kal Bhairav said :

      ” You want me to convert to Islam. The Pope wants me to convert to Catholicism, etc”

      —>Are you the clay in the hands of a potter which can be molded to any desired shape ? Sorry… I do not impose my faith (Islam) upon you or any other non believer.Yes i can bring forth the richness of it but the right of getting convinced or rejecting it solely lies with the listener.

      “Are the people denying the truth because Allah sealed their hearts or did Allah seal their hearts because they denied the truth?”

      —-> I have already answered it through the verses Qur’an (2:6-7) which summed up wherein Denying the truth by Human out of their free will is the first process.Sealing of Heart is how Allah then Responds.

      “Explain what you will be doing in Heaven then I will Decide”

      —>Your Decision should be based upon your approach and judgement.what i might be doing in Heaven should not be your concern.Moreover how can i assure you about my destination? I am on a Journey and i can not just Hope to get there but I will have to strive & please Allah and Inshallah ! i will make it.

      • KalBhairav says

        @Agony:

        My point is from my perspective the idea of rejecting Islam or accepting Islam is not a 50-50 thing. It is more like follows: Take all religions in the world. Let their Number be N. Let Islam be one of them. My probability of accepting Islam is 1 by N. My probability of going to heaven is 1 by 73*N. Now, even with N = 2, this probability is not 50%. hope it is clear now.

        Denying the truth by Human out of their free will is the first process.Sealing of Heart is how Allah then Responds.

        What is this truth you keep referring to?

        .what i might be doing in Heaven should not be your concern

        Sure. I asked because I believe I will have more interesting company in hell. That is all. Islamic heaven does not interest me, frankly. I’d like to know whose company I will have in a place if I am going to spend an eternity in it. I already told you that I long to be in the company of my ancestors and few brilliant Indian philosophers. They are in hell. So, being in their company is what I want. Thanks for you invite though.

        but Those who have not committed ‘Shirk’ will be indeed on the Mercy of Allah and If Allah wills,They will go to Heaven after they have been Punished in Hell for their Sins.

        So, Islamic hell is not for all times? That is good. Glad to see Islam moderating. I’ll notch that up as a small victory. An entity that fries people in hell but burning them, regrowing their skin and burning them again doesnt deserve to be called “Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim”. Glad to know there is no verse in the Quran which says allah will do that. ;-)

        • KalBhairav says

          There was a small error in the probability calculation, but in any case, the larger point is that 1/N for N>= 2 is <= 50%

    • AgonyVeer says

      @Kal Bhairav said :

      “Please clarify…as an infidel, will I burn in eternal hell forever along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims? OR, will I be given the chance along with 72 wrong sects of Muslims to gaining entry into heaven?

      —->Allah will Forgive anything & anyone if He pleases but Not Polytheism (Shirk).

      Qur’an (4:48) إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا

      “Verily, Allah forgives NOT That Partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.”

      “Can people in heaven go to hell? ”

      —> Are you Serious ? I do not know about any special case as such.But if you know some kindly enlighten me.

      “What are the causative factors that make Allah transfer folks from hell to heaven and vice versa?”

      —–> There is No vice-versa.Yes but Those who have not committed ‘Shirk’ will be indeed on the Mercy of Allah and If Allah wills,They will go to Heaven after they have been Punished in Hell for their Sins.

  28. Theunis says

    Too all of you arguing this point. Yes there is a place for everyone in Heaven. The terrorists will go to a place reserved for them. The Murderers and Rapist will go to a place reserved for them. In their respective places they will terrorize each other and kill and murder until there is only one left who will then commit suicide in the most horrible way one can imagine.

    They will serve their own justice upon themselves. This is their just reward. They will vanish from the face of earth and heaven.

    So if you don’t do right on earth don’t expect to be done right to in your respective Heavens.

  29. Dayal Parkash says

    With due respect Mr. Agniveer! This concept that God exists every where seems a little difficult to understand because If this world includes within Ishwar then Ishwar would be just a part of space and then Ishwar wouls be nothing else then the space…..and space has Got know Powers so How is this possible? Please explain this thing w.r.t Vedas

    • says

      1. Even you and me are within space. The atom bomb is within space. Does that mean we are space or we have no space?
      2. Space is a concept we define to comprehend our existence. If I say the inverse, space lies within God, then how will this comprehension change? Vedic concept is that Ishwar permeates whatever space you can think of. And also that Ishwar is beyond physical space as well. For example, qualities like knowledge, compassion, timelessness are non-physical attributes and yet exist in Vedic God. Also know that this is a definition. You may choose to have a different definition of God. But Vedas state that it is logical to work with concept of an entity which is all-pervading, all-powerful, timeless, infinite, just, compassionate etc etc. In absence of a concept like this, a large number of observations of the world cannot be logically explained.

  30. vikas khantwal says

    Agniveer Ji Namskar, i would speak as layman and my questions should be considered in that respect and i hope these would not be taken as offensive. I have been brought up with the concept of holy trinity, i had been subjected to various TV serials like Ramayan, Mahabharta, lately Vishnu purana etc, what i could have grasped from there was God has three roles, one is of creater, other is preserver and lastly of destroyer and thus the concept of holy trinity, so my question is, does holy trinity exists? if not then what about the avtaars of Vishnu, dashavtar? do you think all these are hoax? these are not true? what i knew was, Vedas originated from Brahma and he passed on to Saptrishi to teach the world? is this nt true? if not what the truth? as you said in your article that except that one supreme lord none should be worshipped? dont you think arnt you expressing the same fanatic, fundamentalist views as described in someother religions? in Gita doesnt Krishna showed his parbraham roop to Arjun and said to Arjun that a human pray that supreme lord(him) in whatever way and form, the prayers reached him? is this is wrong? Kindly clear my doubts, i would be grateful.

    Dhanyavaad.
    Vikas

  31. yash says

    Is Ishwar with form or formless?

    1. He cannot be omnipresent if He has form. Because form implies existence of boundary. And hence He should not exist beyond the boundary if He has form.

    ans: if we take the case of electron, possibility of finding it is infinity. but it’s just a small particle. so, we cannot be sure at that level, how will form behave.

    2. Form can be seen only if Ishwar is coarse. Because any object finer than what can reflect light waves cannot be seen.

    ans: to be in some form, it doesn’t require to be seen. there are many examples in universe which cannot be seen, but their structure can be imagined. without having any gaps and pores.

    3. If Ishwar has a form, it means that someone created His form. This is not possible. If you say that He himself made His form, it means He was formless earlier.

    ishwar is himself sufficient to come in a shape or form. he has power to built whole universe. why cannot he turn into a form?

    4. If you say that Ishwar is both formless and with form, it is not possible because both are contradictory.

    ans. electron is in both particle and wave form. it’s not at all contradictory. we say just some transformations in some part of god led to formation of universe and formation of other devtas. while he himself being untransformed state.

  32. DEV says

    Agniveer Ji

    Please let me know any logical point when GOD is all powerfull why he cannot create Soul and Matter.

    Thanks

    • Ronak says

      Dev
      Soul and Prakriti both can’t be created because both are eternal like God. If something doesn’t die or can’t be destroyed, then there is no question of creating it. In other words to create something we must make sure that “something” is not present. But soul and prakiti have always been present since infinity and will remain present till infinity.

      God is all powerful doesn’t mean it can do anything. All powerful means it does not need anyone’s help to do his work. Like Allah need messenger.

      • RamSinagh says

        OM Ji

        You are making assumptions and trying to prove your point by considering Soul and Prakrit i is eternal.

        Kindly provide some logic and reasoning which can be accepted.

        PM

  33. Truth Seeker says

    _________GOD is all powerfull why he cannot create Soul and _____Matter_________________
    For whom God will create matter & soul. What will be God purpose to create them?

    • RamSinagh says

      OM Ji

      I am not here to go into unecessary Discussion,Can you please help with simple logic why VEdic GOD cannot create SOUL and Matter.

      OM

      • says

        Dear Ram singh ji,
        The answer is very simple and logical!

        See if you take waht you say as supposition!
        Lets us suppose god creates Souls and matter!
        Now since as you say god has to create and there is nothing else around so he will have to create matter and souls out of He himself!
        right?
        Now if matter is made from god and sould are made of god , then they must resemble in qualities to God!
        for example if take wood and create a box of wood then wood will still have same properties as wood!
        example box of wood will also burn in fire like wood !

        So if matter is made of god then matter should also have only saatvic nature as god is only saatvic(sat-chit-aanand) But as we see matter(prakriti) is having three qualities sattvic, rajasik, taamsik !! In this raajsika and taamsik are not qualities of god hence it is clear that Matter is not Made of god! Our above supposition hence is wrong here!
        Similarly if soul be made of god then it must also always remain in saatvic nature but it does not always remains in it! Soul should also be always truthful always liberal(mukta) but which is not the case hence soul is also not made of god!
        Hence this proves that both soul and matter are something other than God!

  34. RamSinagh says

    HI

    I agree with DEV,even I am confused this is not convincing answer,Just by saying eternal we are making foundation of Arya Samaj concept.

    Please do let us know why GOD cannot create Soul and PRakriti when he is all powerful,we request u to help us in this by giving some logical answer as our belief is now shaken.

    I agree GOD cannot create another GOD as he can doo all his work but why he does not create soul and prakriti is big flaw now.

    Please help.

    OM

  35. RamSinagh says

    Any intellectual reply excluding following will be of great help.

    “GOd is eternal and so is SOul and Prakrit i is eternal”

    I always found AGniveer logical and with reasoning but here no logic and reason,at one side we say GOD is all powerful and other side he cannot create SOUL and Prakriti.

    This is contradiction in itself.

    • says

      Dear Ramsingh JI,
      i made reply to your first part of question above !
      http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-20605
      Now your question ,
      “” we say GOD is all powerful and other side he cannot create SOUL and Prakriti “”

      The above i replied that by seeing the soul and prakriti we ca say that god has not created them! there was something else which was matter and something else which was soul!

      if it still does not satisfies you please say up … a discussion would enlighten both of us! :)

      • RamSinagh says

        OM Arya veer Ji

        Good reply,slight doubt still remains

        “When GOD is Satvic then how is he Satvic as this is one of the property of Matter.Moreover from where these properties came,someone should have created them as nothing can come from nowhere.So if GOD is satvic then Matter should be pre-exisitng and if matter pre-exist then someone should be source—Please help.

        YOu replied for SOUL,Rishi Dayanan d say SOUL by nature is pure but because of deeds it gathers impure karma etc.Now SOUL should have some source from where it came,what is the source for SOUL and again why GOF is sattvic as it is property of matter who created these properties and why SOULS has property then…Please help

        OM

        • please suggest says

          “””””””When GOD is Satvic then how is he Satvic as this is one of the property of Matter””””””””””””””‘

          okkay! there are two things they have 20 attributes(qualities) each then there can be some common qualities! it does not arise a question! eg. both wood and kerosene burn in fire! this does not arise any question on this that how come they both burn in fire? Hence god and souls and prakriti can have some common properties! it should not arise any question!

          2.””” from where these properties came,someone should have created them as nothing can come from nowhere”””

          Properties is not a thing to come ! eg. goodness is not a thing which can be created but that there can be people who are good. similarly burning cannot be created but there are things that have property to burn(wood,kerosene,petrol).
          Floating is not a thing to be created or to come from somewhere , there are things which have this property that they can float.(plastic, wood etc.)

          so things can be created not properties ! so this question also does not arise where does the property comes from ?

          “”So if GOD is satvic then Matter should be pre-exisitng and if matter pre-exist then someone should be source””
          Yes since god is only saatvic (Not raajsic or Taamsik) so first let us be confirmed on this that the source of matter is not god!

          so we have two options now:
          1.Matter must have either some other source
          2. Matter must be present eternally as Ishvar is present eternally and matter also has no source as ishvar in same manner as ishvar does not have any source !!

          If matter has some source than say let us term it as ‘X’ then same two options we have for ‘X’ either it should have some other source or it should be eternal!
          Hence this loop would continue eternally till we accept that matter is eternal!
          or we can say that this eternal thing that makes matter is called PRAKRITI !
          prakriti is non living.
          Ishvar and Souls both are living (chetan)!

  36. RamSinagh says

    So now I have few more questions

    * If GOD is satvvi then from where Satvic property came.

    * If Matter has Satvic,Rajsic and Tamsic then from where all these came who created them.

    * I accept that GOD is everything in himself and ia ll powerfull then again why he cannot create SOUL and Matter,He can create SOUL and reduce these properties based on his design….Then oly we can become son and daughter.

    Even sometime we have more rajasic or Satvic gunas of our parents and same GOD could have done,in this way he could have created soul ,after that it could have resulted in journey of re-birth and death etc.

    Kindly help

  37. aryaveer says

    “”* If GOD is satvvi then from where Satvic property came”””.
    replied above that there is no question where does a property come from? right?
    http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-20613 (this comment is mine forgot to put my name in there!)

    “”””* If Matter has Satvic,Rajsic and Tamsic then from where all these came who created them.
    “””””
    Same question same answer so propert does not have a question where it cam from right?

    “””* I accept that GOD is everything in himself and ia ll powerfull then again why he cannot create SOUL and Matter,He can create SOUL and reduce these properties based on his design….Then oly we can become son and daughter.

    Even sometime we have more rajasic or Satvic gunas of our parents and same GOD could have done,in this way he could have created soul ,after that it could have resulted in journey of re-birth and death etc.
    “”””””

    this part i could not understand please be little clear and explain this part ?

  38. RamSinagh says

    AryaVeer i

    Thanks I will continue here as student.

    Every property is due to some combination of atoms,molecules etc.Even feelings have some medium, and some root.Nothing can be in air.Now even if I consider Satvvic,Rajasi and Tamsic as initial property of matter then who created these and if they are not particle or energies then how can matter be created out of it which has mass and occupy space.

    Lets work on Matter and GOD first.Please prove that GOD cannot create matter.I need to get this basic right first.Why he cannot create with a blink or by his power matter from nowhere.

    As he is all powerfull.

    OM

    • says

      ———–Every property is due to some combination of atoms,molecules etc.Even feelings have some medium, and some root.Nothing can be in air.Now even if I consider Satvvic,Rajasi and Tamsic as initial property of matter then who created these and if they are not particle or energies then how can matter be created out of it which has mass and occupy space.——

      Very correct ! but as you say we would take this on later first the other part of your post..

      —–Lets work on Matter and GOD first.Please prove that GOD cannot create matter.I need to get this basic right first.Why he cannot create with a blink or by his power matter from nowhere.—–

      Okkay by seeing all the nature around us we know that god has not created matter!
      But now the problem is that why god cannot create matter?

      Nothing can come from nowhere ! you yourself said this in previous post either it has to be created or it is there from always !!
      The thing here is that our basic conception about god is wrong! we often think of god like a magician who can do things by moving his wand or speaking some words or blinking an eye! but thing there is nothing as miracle! everything happens for a reason and logical explanation based on laws of nature!

      Nothing can ever defy laws of nature right?

      for example it appears that magician does disappear by saying “agdam bagdam choo!!” but we know that basically nothing happened because of those words! though it appears laws of nature have been defied but they have not been defied in reality!

      Laws of nature can never be defied right?
      so similarly please please even god cannot defy the laws of nature! God himself have created them he himself would never defy his own laws! by no way by no way a rose can grow on cactus plant!
      Think of god as greatest of all scientists ! He has invented everything around world ! The things which are discoveries for us are inventions of Him! (water cycle, mountains, rivers, winds, oceans etc.) Now , God as a scientist has created things… it is not possible for him to do anything which is simply not possible!
      ALL- POWERFUL is the term (sarva-shaktimaan) is most mis-understood term . by all powerful it should not be taken as to be able to do anything ! but as to be all self sufficient to complete all jobs of his without anyone’s help ! he is all powerful to do all his duties !
      God can never go against his own laws! so blinking a eye , speaking amantra doing something against nature is simply not possible!
      Anyoe who says that god is all powerful means god can do anything anytime!
      then ask him these simple questions:
      Can God create a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift?
      Can god create another god?
      Can god kill himself?
      can god get sick?
      can god become angry?
      can god become sad and cry?

      ask out these things!

      to clear out please read the chapter on this in Satyartha Prakash aka Light Of Truth! :)
      waiting for your response! :)

  39. RamSinagh says

    Ram

    Thanks and I have already Read that Chapter in SP.Appreciate your patience.I laughed on your reply “agdam badma choo” ha ha ha…

    You said GOD cannot do anything against Nature then what is Nature.What do you mean by laws of Nature,when GOD is in everything and he controls everything then from where Nature arose.

    Thanks

    • says

      “”””””You said GOD cannot do anything against Nature then what is Nature””””””””””

      See the nture or Prakriti in itself is jadh (non living)!So when we say laws of nature it means laws made by god which exisits in nature. eg. law of gravity! it is a natural law (made by god)!
      And yes god is in everything an controls it! for nstance god is one who makes sure hat law of gravity keeps working every moment!!

      So the law of nature i.e. law of god is as perfect and as permanent and unchangeable as God himself! so in any case , even god cannot or we can say will not defy this law!
      So please all those serials or stories where it says god (or some godman) gave a indication from finger and stones or other things fly in air etc. are fake or just imaginary because such a thing is not possible!!

      And sometimes we say why cannot god do this see even if he can do this , he would never do anything like this to the extent that we can say he cannot do this!
      eg.say , i ask you can you run on roads of your town naked and shrieking out loudly?
      Now see even if you can do this but you would never do this because you are a sane person!
      So in a way i can say that you cannot do this!
      Now in human life maybe some condition comes (GOD- Forbid :) )that we have to do this , because to us our future is unpredictable, but god is always same (ishvar ekras hai, vo nhi badlta ) and remains same always so there is no question that god would ever have to do this!
      similarly god is so decide while making laws of nature that he does not needs to defy them, that he will never defy them! This statement is true to the extent that we can say that god cannot defy them even if he may be able to do so !!

      Hope i did not confused you all over! :)

      • Ram says

        OM Ji

        Thanks for your reply,I think I am asking a lot from you and only GOD can reply few things like.

        Lets start with GOD and SOUL now,I am good with GOD and MATTER.

        Please explain why GOD cannot create SOUL and destroy souls.

        OM

        • says

          Namaste!
          :)
          Now we know that PRAKRITI is different from god therefore it is not made of god, hence not made of god means is not made by god !
          (What god does is takes prakriti and transforms it to the form of univese and world we see !!)

          In a similar fashion soul is different from both god and matter !
          Matter is jadh(non living), and soul is chetan(living) hence it is clear that soul is not made of matter !

          Now our question would again come at same place!
          About souls again we have three possiblities:
          If we say god made souls then:

          1. God Made souls out of Prakriti which we agree that was present eternally with god!
          2. God made souls using he himself own as material.

          Otherwise

          3. Souls were also present eternally along with god and Prakriti in a similar fashion as god and matter was preset eternally!

          1st option is cancelled as discussed above that prakriti is non living while souls is chetan! Anything made of nonliving thing can never be living right?
          :P

          2nd option again we see properties of god and Souls different!
          God is all knowing, soul is not!
          God is vyapak, soul is not!
          God is all powerful , soul is not!
          (soul needs someone to provide it a material body to accomplish karma)
          God is always mukta, soul is not!
          God never comes under effect of Prakriti’s raajsic and taamsik properties(called as Maya) while soul frequently comes under its effect unless attained Moksha!
          God free from Cycle of Births n deaths, soul is not!

          and in similar way there are many differences in soul and god which makes it sure that soul is not of same material as that is god!

          Hence we are only left with third option that Soul is also present eternally along with Ishvara and Prakriti!

          Hence the three Ishvara, Prakriti And Souls are present With each other since infinity and would remain together till infinity!
          Ad god would always keep managing these two other entities!

          Actually this is the concept of Trinity which Bible writers tried to copy (god , son and Holy Spirit ) but they kind of could not understand it properly and have confused themselves and other also!

          • RamSinagh says

            OM Ji
            2nd option again we see properties of god and Souls different!
            God is all knowing, soul is not!
            God is vyapak, soul is not!
            God is all powerful , soul is not!
            (soul needs someone to provide it a material body to accomplish karma)
            God is always mukta, soul is not!
            God never comes under effect of Prakriti’s raajsic and taamsik properties(called as Maya) while soul frequently comes under its effect unless attained Moksha!
            God free from Cycle of Births n deaths, soul is not!

            and in similar way there are many differences in soul and god which makes it sure that soul is not of same material as that is god!

            Even Parents and kids are not of same nature so why cannot GOD make Soul in the same way out of him.

            OM

          • Aryaveer says

            this indeed is very excellent discussion!
            Ram Signh ji please go through teh above disussion carefully it would answer out many questions!

            And about your above question…

            See child if wishes then become like parents
            say father drink if child wish he also can start drinking…
            … while soul even if wishes can never become god.

            Means soul can never become all knowing , soul can never become omnipresent etc.

          • RamSingah says

            Arya Veer Ji and Vasu Ji

            Can you please explain this..

            K: What is the objection if it were to be accepted that the soul is the creation of God?

            V: If this is accepted, then the souls are not free to do their Karma. Secondly, God becomes accountable for their good and bad deeds. Souls cannot be treated as partaking in an evil deed, for the reason that God himself has created the souls and the God has invested them with the fitness to do both good and bad deeds. Hence God did the good and bad deed! Hence what is wrong in the soul? If God had not given the freedom to do bad things at the time of the creation of Souls how evil could have been done by the soul? Hence, it could be said that God did not create the soul and the latter is Anadi and enjoys freedom of action. But he is subservient to God in enjoying the fruits of Karma decided by God.

            PM

  40. says

    mujhe garv hai apne hindu hoone par agni veer ji hamein app jaise ik admi ki jaroorat thi jo jo hindu dharma ki jaankari gahrai se de -jai shri raam

  41. Vimal Kr Sharma says

    Agni Veer Jee aap ne jo jankaariyan deen hai wo anmol hai ek aam Hindu Ved ka adhhayan nhn karte na to hamare desh ke education policy aisi hai na hi aam hindu parivaar isme koi ruchi dikhata hai …..aap ka aabhari aur reeni hun ke aap aisa kar rahe hai…..Aap ko shat shat Dhanyabad deta hun…..Aap se aagrah hai ise anbarat chalne dein…….Dhanybad…

  42. DEV says

    Excellent and GOV bless you,even I have one last Question..Did we found GOD particle in Higgs Boson…Is it Mahat which they found…Please do reply.I think we should also celeberate as Sciensists in geneva found GODs Particle……One Great Article should be for these people…Please enlighten that GOD Particle is foudn or what it is…..

    • Aryaveer says

      Indeed we and all scientist community should celebrate for this huge discovery! A very important particle has been found ! without finding it is said that all current scientific equations and theorems would have been un proved! Now this very important particle has been named as ‘god particle’ – being that this particle has an important role in the making of universe!
      so a wonderful ‘particle’ has been found not god ! :P

  43. Mehmed says

    Hello,

    Some scientists and religious leaders claim that the Big Bang theory refuted Vedic models of the universe.

    As far as I read from Vedas, it talks about cycles… Let`s assume that every cycles starts with another bigbang and it goes on forever.

    But in 2011, it`s proven that universe will expand forever with accelerating speed so there won`t be a “big crunch”, instead, the universe will continue expanding forever. (thus no another big bang)

    My questions are:

    1) Science says that everything started with big bang, before that, there was nothing. (no space/time) So if that`s true, how can there be “cycles” ?

    2) Let`s assume that there are multiple big bangs (Science doesn`t agree with that though) We know that there won`t be big crunch, universe will expand forever instead, so how this current cycle will end?

    Thank you…

  44. DEV says

    Muhammad Ji

    Big Band is nascenet stage and very small part of Vedic Model–Standard Model is very smaell part of Vedic Model.Scientist still have long Journey ,they have only found one more Particle out of 210 Particles.VEdas not only talk about Particles but talk about number of fields and forces.Gravity which is still not solved by Standard Model is explained in vedas.Higgs field is well explained in vedas.Higgs Bosos is not considered major particle in vedas it is something else which we will not dicuss here.

    Anyway if you read Higgs said that fields canot be detected and Vedas say you can find any number of Partricles and by finding particle you cannot arrive to truth as Earth itself is made of huge number of Particles.Rather then spending 10.2 Billion dollar scientist should have found out what law makes atoms to molecules which result into beautiful colors in plants,animals and they should have tried to do that.

    OM

  45. Kanna says

    I see the site is more of the nature of anti-islamic/anti-christ..and not just propagating vedantha or vedic truths.

    Regarding the above article..author wanted to say Ishvar is formless … who are you to decide? why can’t he have a form if he wishes? who are you to restrict him as formless?

    Author said Vedas never claim Ishvar has form…have you gone through whole vedas?

    Read these lines “Tasya yadha kapyaasam pundareekamevam”akshini” “..is this not the form of Ishavara?

    Don’t try to limit god for some particular aspects how you want hm to be..he is omnipotent(in your words only)..so he can have form if he wants.

    Having form can not limit him to for a particular place..that is not good logic..and your logics will fail with GOD..he can have form and still present every where since he is omnipotent.

    Instead of interpret the VEdas with your own fancies..surrender your ego to Almighty..he will let you know the truth about him.

    “Purnamidam puranamadaha purnaath purnamudachyathe”

  46. Kavitha says

    Hi All,
    I am new to Agniveer.I had 2 questions, and would be gratefull if any one could answer.

    1. In the entire post Ishwar is refered as “He”. How is this gender determined? If we are associating a human gender, does that not automatically get a form as well?

    2. And as per Purusha suktha, it is that Purusha (meaning: that which dwells within body) is the universal force/energy or life. Am I correct here? Can you please point me to right book or link which gives me rational meaning of Purusha suktha.

    Thanks

    • NAshwin says

      Sister Kavitha,
      1.It does not matter whether God is referred as male or female.It varies upon the context of verses.To focus on specific attributes,both male and female gender are used which is to be taken symbollically.God is beyond gender and formless,omnipresent etc according to rational observations pointed out in the article.
      2.In the below link,you can find the meaning of Purusha Sukta explained by a Vedic scholar:
      http://agniveer.info/Thread-purush-sukta-rigveda-basis-of-case-system
      Hope that answers the questions.

  47. Angira says

    @Kavitha, a Vedic Dharmi should have greeted all with word “Namaste”. Meaning of the word “Purush” (Pri-to fill or sustain) =Pru Palanpuranayo: From this root the word “Purush” has come “Ya: Swavyapatya Characharam Jagat Prunati Purayati Va Sa Purush: | ” = is One who counts and classifies the material objects and souls.
    To know more about Purusha Sukta, i would prefer you reading Maharshi Dayananda Saraswati’s book Introduction to Vedas or RigVedadiBhashyaBhumika http://agniveer.com/introduction-to-Vedas/ —The section named “SrushtiVidhyaVishay:” deals with Purush Sukta
    .

  48. hinduagnostic says

    have a question why do you arya samaj say idol worship is wrong when they say god is everywhere he is even in a statue and other hindus dont worship the idol they make the idol god as he is everywhere?

  49. Kavitha says

    Namaste NAshwin and Angira,

    Thank you for the information and the links you provided. Will go through and get back in case of doubts.

    Thanks.

  50. mithya says

    agniveer i want to clear my doubt on god..
    like you said ishwar should only be worhiped.. but why we cant worship him in any other form?.. like if we are worshiping him through an idol, but in our mind we know we are worshiping ishwar . everyone who worship him in any other form know he is worshiping ishwar. as you said ishwar is everywhere then why we ant worship him in a particular place.. like we have mandir in our home. we go and worship dere. its a place where we dont allow our mind to think any negative things. so the place automatically becomes PAVITRA or full of positive energies. we worship idols, why it is wrong? we are indirectly worshiping one and only ishwar. why he will mind if worship him through idols?. we know he is everywhere and in everything then whats the problem? and you also said he is every human being then why we cant worship him in form of krishna and ram.. they were more close to god coz of dere deeds..

    and WHO ARE BRAHMA , VISHNU and MAHADEV according to vedas? they all are one or different ?is mahadev is not a god? or his stories we are listening from childhood are wrong? is this true story that mahadeva cut ganesha’s head? or ganesha is just the symbolic representation of gnani?

    • Raj says

      Explanation for Mahavishnu: The blue colour of Vishnu denotes the colour of the sky and ocean which means the infinity/ limitless. The serpent on which Vishnu is lying denotes the coiled structure of a galaxy. The name of the serpent anantha means limitless (infinity) the ksheera saagaram ( ocean of milk) on which Vishnu is pictured shows milky way galaxy. Anantha sayana represent the silent universe/ galaxies. Symbolically Mahalakshmi ( meaning of this word is prosperity) has been attributed the position of the wife of Mahavishnu showing that any system can smoothly exist only with prosperity.

      From Mahavishnu comes out through a Lotus (symbolically) the creator Lord Brahma. This symbolically presents a connection of Lord Brahma with the prapancha purhsa similar to the connection of the baby in the womb of the mother. The baby takes the energy and nutrition for growing/ cell production from the mother. Similarly Lord Brahma takes energy and material from for creation in the world. The four heads of Lord Brahma represent the four axes required for any creation: x, y, z and time axes. The Vedas (the word itself means knowledge) in the hands of Lord Brahma and the position of Saraswathy (deity of knowledge) as the wife of the creator symbolically present that for every creation knowledge/ vidya is required. The knowledge and creation (knowledge for creation) are inseparable components.

      Lord Siva is the deity symbolically presents the controller of death/ destruction (the destruction is for further construction). Mahavishnu and Lord Siva are said to be connected through hearts ( which only means inseparable) Vishnoasya hrudayam siva: Sivosya hrudayam vishno – says Upanishads and Yajurveda. Symbolically Lord Siva has powerful fire in the third eye, powerful water and torrential air symbolically tied in the tuft and the snake around the neck ( symbol of international medical association) and thri sool in hand. All the five respectively present destruction through fire, water (flood , etc) air ( cyclone/ tempest, etc) diseases and using weapons. Parvathy (means energy/force/sakti) is symbolically presented as the wife of Lord Siva . Through this combination of Lord Siva and Parvathy, it is shown that the destruction for construction can take place with powerful application of any one or more of the above five. (powerful fire, air, water, diseases and weapon only have the destruction capacity). Thus they become inseparable hence the concept of Ardhanaareeswara comes up. In fact the Brahma Vishnu Maheswara sankalpa and the Lakshmi Parvathy Sarswathi sankalpa are the symbolic presentation of the life cycle spiritual- social and physical level when scientifically explained. Always the Hindus consider the knowledge, prosperity and sakthi/power in feminine gender. These explanations (of the gods) are the connecting layers of Vedic and puranic concepts of gods.

      Vigneswara having the shape of the cross section of human brain, worshipped as the Lord who removes/ protects from the hurdles in the life. Hurdles can be as huge as elephants and it can come from anywhere just like a rat (mooshika vaahana) comes.

    • Raj says

      Puranic stories can convey the in depth Vedic messages in simple ways. From the stories one can take the good and bad because the stories themselves give the answer for the reward for the good karma and punishment for the bad karma. From the stories we can easily get the messages for our life. So do not think that stories are histories, there may be historical facts and pure story factors in the puranaas. One should unwrap the stories and take the messages from it.

    • Ankur says

      @mithya : Please read the satyaPrakash by Swami dayanand saraswati to get the actual and factual answers to these questions that you have asked, no some puranic justification, which in fact are the cause for all the deterioration and confusion in our socieity today.

  51. Yuvanraj says

    okay hello guys, I was born as a Hindu and became so lost when i was small by accepting the fact that i have to worship idols and etc which doesn’t make sense at that time..infact my knowledge in Islam and Christianity was deeper compared to Hinduism because i did not have someone to teach me. Pandit chants all kind of mantras but never care to explain that to us but that’s not what i came here for. I’m an atheist now but i haven’t give up and then i found out that Hinduism is totally different to what others are following these days. Now i’m more eager than ever to learn about Hinduism but i have no sources here, is there any web or even link in this agniveer where i can learn Hinduism from A-Z. Thank you

  52. mithya says

    thank you raj bro for explaining it very clearly. i didnt knew about it that deeply. it realy makes so much sense.. zakir naik is truely a brain washer. hope more hindus will learn hinduism from true source lyk aginiveer not from fake and liar zakir naik.

    ankur bro will i get answer about idol worship too in satya prakash? is it a sin worshiping god through idols? what i think is, it will not make much difference. god wont get angry for such little things. idol worshis makes us feel lyk we personaly meating him and all the respect like doing aarti we are giving him through that means. he will see our intensions not presentation that how we are worshiping him.

    • Raj says

      Mitya – Thanks for reading the reply. As per my opinion Idol worship is not a sin.The main thing one need to understand is that idol worship is not worshiping the Idol but worshiping through the Idol. Respectable Swami Dayananda Saraswathi ,Agniveer and many of our friends here have a very different opinion in this. Great organizations like Arya Samaj is against Idol Worship on the other side most of our spiritual gurus are advising Idol Worship and the main reason they says is that it is difficult to imagine for a normal person with out an image. So you can also follow one method which seems more logical and applicable for you. It is completely my opinion.

    • Ankur says

      @Mithya: you are right that God will not get angry or something like that by what a human does, as emotions like anger etc cannot be the traits or the almighty and allknowing.
      The only thing that one does on the path of the spiritual practice is to “PROGRESS” towards the truth. The most commonly used argument in favour of Murti pujan is that a human mind needs someting to focus or concentrate on, which in itslef is a very ignorant and baseless statement brewing out of less understanding(ignorance) of the human mind, Noting focuses the human mind more than the breath(medium of the pran); One should read the patanjali yog sutras for the same.

      The question to ask is why do we worship, is it for material growth or just out of love, i hope that if one is a trut devotee he/she would say out of love, now why is it necessary to have an image to have that love.All the murtis that are worshipped today in hinduism are either great historical figures or puranic inventions.
      One has to understand when one RELIES on am image for that love, the mind manifest ideas to strengthen that feeling (that is the nature of the mind). for e.g. there are stories told that a bhakta was rejoicing,dancing,eating etc with vishnu/krishna etc, what is that, that is the manifestation of that indiviudal mind that has been woven to strengthen his/her association with the Image(Murti of his indiviudal deity),one must know that as long as one is associated his /her love with an image they will never ever grow or evolve on that path of the final truth i.e. total control on the mind,only when the mind is still the journey on the path of the truth begins. The nature of the mind to strengthen its existing belief system .

      Om Shanti.

      • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

        @Ankur

        Case 1:

        Be-friends with a non-Muslim or not?

        Here’s some items of information regarding (5:51), kindly read.
        As u r not ready to accept tafseer of Ibn-e-kaseer, thats alright but now if u read the verse within its context from (5:51) to (5:65), it’ll b clerified Allah forbade Muslims to have “Mawalat” with those who mock Islam.

        According to Islam there r 4 kinds of relaionships with others.
        Mawasat, Madarat, Mu’amlat & Mawalat – All these r Arabic words, I’ll explain their meanings in-shaa-Allah:

        1) Mawasat: Kindness, just & fair act, good attitude. Mawasat with non-Muslims is allowed.
        2) Madarat: Good attitude like with guests, b polite & civil, to do good or well , b courteous, to visit the sick, if earthquake occur in India or any non-Islamic country the Muslim countries should help non-Muslims. Madarat is allowed with non-Muslims too.

        3) Mu’amlat: Trade, buying & selling , good behaviour just like with strangers if they need any kind of help, 4 example if they foget they way, Muslims should help them. Mu’amlat with non-Muslims is allowed.

        4) Mawalat: patronage or close heartiest relationship, so deep love or hearty attachments that doesn’t let Muslims to practice
        Islam, that force them to forget Allah’s commandmend & can’t b able to keep their faith pure . This is the main reason due to wich Mawalat with non-Muslims isn’t allowed, there r also many other reasons as r mentioned below:

        1)They mock Islam therefore Mawalat isn’t allowed (4:139-140)
        2) Wanna misguide us so Mawalat isn’t allowed (60:1-2)
        3) Fight us, wanna heart us & whish ill to us, so Mawalat isn’t allowed (60:1-2) (60:9)

        The word “Mawalat” is illusrtated by a simile “Batan” meaning “Razdar/trusty”. V Muslims can’t take them as Batan (3:118-120) because they can divulge a secret, the reasons r the same as mentioned above.

        V shouldn’t sit with non-Muslims if they use foul language 4 Allah & Prophet (6:68)
        Without any reason we should not sit with them & should avoid of their company; If one wanna sit within their company, there must b a reason 4 it; 4 example our purpose should b preaching of Islam or any other sensible reason must b there; not just 4 the sake of time passing, 4 absurd talks & 4 the wastage of time.
        It’s Allah’s wisdom He bounds us within cerctain limits how to behave with non-Muslims, Allah is most wise & best planner (Quran), He knows what’s in the hearts of Non-Muslims better than we.

        So V Muslims can’t take non-Muslims as a “wali” its plural is “awliya” . “Friendship” is not the exact translation of Arabic word “awliya” at all, because everyone has it’s own meaning of friendship.

        Allah doesn’t forbade us to have just, kind & good attitude towards non-Muslims. This thing can b justified from Qur’anic verses & from a number of Hadiths. I’ll qoute a few of these, in-shaa-Allah!

        Hadiths:
        1) Buying & selling with non-Muslims is allowed. (Bukhari, vol. 1)
        2) 1 ought to do good & b polite with a non-Muslim mother who hates Islam (Bukhari, vol.3)
        3) 1 can visit the sick non-Muslim – Prophet did. (Bukhari, vol. 3)
        4) The exchage of gifts among Muslims & non-Muslims, in order to establish peace, is allowed. Prohet did. (Bukhari, vol.2)
        5) 1 can pray to Allah 4 the hidayah of non-Muslims – Prophet did. (Bukhari, vol.2)
        6) During war one can’t burn non-Muslims but can use other methods of fighting (Bukhari, vol 2)
        7) 1 should b courteous with a non-Muslim – Prophet did. (Bukhari, vol. 3)
        8) The women & the children can’t b killed in war (Bukhari, vol.2)
        9) It’s not allowed to kill an innocent Muslim (Bukhari)

        Qur’anic verses:
        1) “Mawalat” is not allowed but in order to spread peace “sulah” with non-Muslims is allowed. (8:61) (3:28)
        2) 1 should b just & fair with a non-Muslim (5: 2 & 8) (16:126).
        3) Killing of the innocent isn’t allowed (5:32)
        4) Preach & argue with non-Muslims in the most gracious & best ways (16:125)
        5) Do good or well with non-Muslims (60:8)
        6) If any non-Muslim hurts unfairly a Muslim & instead of taking revenge he (Muslim) bear it with patience, Allah will b with him (16:126) Means Allah’ll reward such a muslim 4 his patience.
        7) Do good with non-Muslim parents & help them in worldly tasks (29:8) (3:14-15)
        8) Don’t abuse non-Muslims’ (suposedly) God, don’t insult their faith (6:108)
        9) If they say anything wrong, in response Muslims should bear it with patience, ignore it & say them salam (peace) & say a very good thing (28:55) (25:63) (3:186) (23:96) (4:63) (50:39) (20:130).

        What’s the definition of “friendship” in front of u? I think what Islam teaches us regarding our attitude towards non-Muslims is far better than “friendship”. Now it’s up to u either accept it or refute it, I’m not forcing u.

        Case 2:
        Regarding (7:11), I’ve found the reason 4 ‘ Allah ordered angels to prostrate to Adam’. Human beings r “Ashraful-Makhluqat” meaning “The most greatest of all the creatures of Allah”. Adam was 1st human being created by Allah, who was the greatest of all other creatures of the world i.e Angels, Jins & animals. Allah wanted to show the Angels & Jins that human beings r greater than both of them therefore Allah ordered them to prostrate to Adam. At that time animals were not created later on they were created, notice all animals bend while walking. So Allah ordered Angels & Iblis to prostrate to Adam but Iblis refused & claimed to b greater than Adam, proved his arrogancy & condemned by Allah. Understand?

        I appreciate your willingness to show us the doubts about Islam without mocking Islam & without wishing ill to us. U can learn if u visit Islamic websites, instead of anti-Islamic as they spread lies about Islam.
        Here’re some key points, if you’ve while analsing Qur’an, Allah’ll b with u in finding the true path:
        1) While analysing Qur’an you shouldn’t b arrogant & shouldn’t b impenitent. (48:8)
        2) Your aim shouldn’t to defeat Allah & Prophet (PBUH) but you should read Qur’an in quest of truth. (17:45-47) (22:51) (34:38)
        4) should not b hypocrite, shouldn’t mock.
        3) Should read Qur’an with knowledge (22:8), I mean to say, read the exact & correct translation & explanation or tafseer or history with the help of most authentic Hadiths.
        May Allah b with you in finding the true path. Amen!

        Some questions regarding your faith, make answers, thanks.
        As u say that u believe in one God so tell me:
        – What do you mean by “one God”?
        – What’re the attributes of God as per Veda?
        – Besides all such attributes which’re in Veda what’re the “additional” attributes of God as per “you” & how did you detect these? What’re the basis 4 it? Just imagination or anythingelse?
        – Do you worship Idols?
        – What’re “Idol + s = Idols” if God is one?
        – Is there any logical reason due to which you worship Idols?
        – (As the belief of a religious person is baised on his scripture) So how did you come to know that you should worship Idols? What’re the basis 4 it? Does Veda teach to worship Idols?

        • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

          @ Agniveer

          “He is omnipotent. But that does not mean He can do whatever He wants”
          Re:
          Vedic God is all powerful but can’t do anything he wants. Really? How? Don’t get. Elaborate, thanks.

          “But He would act only as per His duties. For example, He will not kill Himself to create another Ishwar. He cannot make Himself an idiot. He cannot do theft or dacoity etc.”
          Re:
          Because He knows what He should do & what shouldn’t. As He is All knowing.

          • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

            @Agniveer:

            “Q: What does Ishwar want?
            A: Ishwar wants bliss for all souls and wants them to achieve this bliss through deserving efforts purely on basis of merit.”
            Re:
            Yes. Thats what Allah wants. The difference is as per u one will get this bliss in 7 lives & as per Islam one’ll get this bliss in 2 lives i.e one is this life & the 2nd one is the life in the world hereafter.

          • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

            “Q: Is Ishwar with form or formless?
            A: He is formless as per Vedas and commonsense.”

            Re:
            What’re “Idol+s” then? If He is formless. Elaborate.

          • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

            @Ankur

            “He (God) knows everything”

            Re:
            So He knows all what human beings will do in their 7 lives. Then still He created them to let them from suffereing from trubles & trials. So can one say He is “Moody”?
            I’m not saying that God is “Moody” I’m just asking. And I just say God can do anything He want as He is an Omnipotent being & He has a right to do so, none can restrict Him, All human beings are His slave.

          • sanatandharma says

            @Maria
            Sister as per Quran woman is half intelligent. Please first bring one more woman to post comment here then I will entertain you.

          • sanatandharma says

            @Maria
            ____________I just say God can do anything He want________
            Can Allah make stone too heavy to be lifted by him? Yes/No. Can Allah do this?

          • sanatandharma says

            @
            __________What’re “Idol+s” then____________
            Then Why does Allah love most Kaaba Idol.

  53. anti-agni says

    @sanatan-adharmi, you have written..”@Maria
    Sister as per Quran woman is half intelligent. Please first bring one more woman to post comment here then I will entertain you.”
    where it is in quraN? what kind of aryasamji you are? you have said that bring one more more woman then i will entertain you and still you are asking questions to her? do you think that now she has gained full intellect? i think you have some serious problem….at one place you are saying that ishwara is creator and other place your cult claims that ishwara is not creator?
    “@Maria
    ____________I just say God can do anything He want________
    Can Allah make stone too heavy to be lifted by him? Yes/No. Can Allah do this?”
    actually moolshankar followers have habit of repeating fooolish questions even answered so many times. dont you see that your question has no answer and has no role in human faith. is not enough that HE does what He wills nad He has power over all the things. there are so many attributes of Allah in quran collect all of them that what quran says about Allah then tell us that this concept is not best oncept for Allah.

    where quran is claiming that Allah is interested to make in such a stone? if we say yes or no in both the case answer will be wrong because question is wrong.

    • Slave of holy propet (SAW) says

      @Anti-Agni
      Indian legendary like Dayanand, Rama, Laxman, Krishna, Hanuman, Durga, etc. were worst people because they were not follower of prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Arbi legendary like prophet Mohammed and Arbi people are best creature of Allah. Indian language is worst. Arbi Language is best.

  54. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @sanatandharma:
    Your words: “Can Allah make stone too heavy to be lifted by him? Yes/No. Can Allah do this?”

    Re:
    There’re certain attributes of Allah. On of theses attributes of Allah is He is All Powerful, He has power over all things (Qur’an).
    So your quesn’t is senseless. Qur’an doesn’t say “Allah can do anything” BUT says “He can do anything He want”.

    Your words:
    ____What’re “Idol+s” then___
    Then Why does Allah love most Kaaba Idol.

    Re:
    1) That is not the answer to my question.
    2) That’s white lie ;There’s no Idol in Kabah.

    Qur’an doesn’t says woman’s “half” intellgent than a man but says she forgets things earlier than a man. Thats true. We Muslims women have courage to accept the truth. In some things man is greater than woman & in some things woman is greater than man. Thats true. For example you men have physical strength more than we (women).

    Why don’t you come to the point & make proper & logical answers to my questions?

    • sanatandharma says

      _____________He can do anything He want__________
      If Allah wants to make a stone too heavy to be lifted by him, Can Allah make such a stone?

    • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

      Your dirty words : “Please first bring one more woman to post comment here then I will entertain you.

      Re:
      You non-Muslims poke fun at Islam in order to entertain yourself.
      No wonder non-Muslims hate Islam so none is forcing them to accept it so they should let us alone with our faith
      But still they burn our Noble & Holy Qur’an, draw contemptible sketches, publish disgraceful cartoons & make contemptible films of our Bloved & Holy Prophet (PBUH), ditch The Noble Qur’an, tear its pages & dance over it while playing music, urinate over it, Hunh!

      JUST TO ENTERTAIN THEMSELVES & TO INJURE THE FEELINGS OF MUSLIMS.

      One can sense how much of frustrated they’re. They do so in the name of their so-called freedom of expression just 4 the sake of enjoyment & to njure the feelings of Muslims but still they can’t b extreamist right, but Muslims’ll b extreamist if they go on riots by using their right of freedom of expression in order to defend their faith; While this riot will b just a reaction to their inhuman & blasphemous actions. How much of unfair & unjust they’re?

      It’s not bad if Islam allows death penalty 4 such rebellious people, as they cross the limits.

      Just ask yourself !
      How can one dare to do such blasphemous acts with a God’s book?
      Y should Allah give paradise to such rebellious people?
      Y should Allah like such acts?
      Y shouldn’t Allah-Subhana-Wa-Ta’ala allow death penalty 4 such a rebellious person?
      He is the Greatest & an Omnipotent being, He has a right to issue such a law.
      It’ll injure the feelings of Muslims in millions & millions if only one non-Muslim does so; So if such a person is put to death, none’ll dare to do so again.
      The cry of peace willn’t b a far cry if they stop doing so. Allah wants us to b peaceful, therefore, He issued such a law.
      Allahu-Akbr!

      • Ankur says

        @Maria : well well well. You are a true Muslim now for sure.good going.brain shunted and thinking crippled.
        How can one dare to do such blasphemous acts with a God’s book?
        Who said its God’s Book and what special is there in it??
        Dont your see you are talking on Behalf of Allah?

        • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

          @Ankur
          Your words : “well well well. You are a true Muslim now for sure.good going.brain shunted and thinking crippled.”
          Re: And what about yourself? Perhaps you have forgoten your way of debating. Now you just looks like other hatemongers.

          Your words: Who said its God’s Book and what special is there in it??
          Re: The fact is that you’re still an ignorant, sorry but you’re therefore you dont know but QURAN IS GOD’S/ALLAH’S BOOK.

          You pasted my words to fit them into your mean “How can one dare to do such blasphemous acts with a God’s book?”
          Re: The point I made was just that if someone do such blasphemous acts with a God’s book” & God allows death penalty 4 such a rebellious then none can object to it because God is omnipotent & He has a right to issue such a law. You dont believe in Allah okay to whomever u worship , Will u allow other to do such BLASPHEMOUS ACTS with your religious book. Definitely u’ll not do if you’re true to your faith.

          All your questions doesn’t seem to be from a logical person like u seem to b , I’ve explained very well the whole concept regarding befriends with non-muslim or nor but now you come up with many other things.

          • Ankur says

            @Maria : Nice good going. you have frnds posting for you. Habit of Muslims.
            I give up , you are right about all you said. thx for such words of wisdom.

  55. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    You words: If Allah wants to make a stone too heavy to be lifted by him, Can Allah make such a stone?
    Re: Plain & simple Allah don’t want in any way (Quran). He has power over all things (Quran). None is greater than Allah. (Quran). Its not possible.

    • Slave of holy prophet (SAW) says

      @Maria
      You are wrong Allah can do anything whatever he wants. If Allah will wish to make a stone too heavy to be lifted by him, he can make such a stone. Nothing is impossible for Allah. Allah is not like Arya Samaji God who can not make such a stone.

      • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

        @Slave of Prophet (SWA):
        Yor words: “You are wrong Allah can do anything whatever he wants. If Allah will wish to make a stone too heavy to be lifted by him, he can make such a stone. Nothing is impossible for Allah. ”

        Re: No I’m not wrong. Allah has power over all things(Qur’an ), Why ‘ll He create such a stone which’d b out of his power , in other words Allah’ll not have a control over the stone (Na’ozubillah). Allah don’t wanna create a thing greater than Him, It’s not possible. I think He can’t create even. He can’t create another being like Him or greater than Him.
        Quran doesn’t say He can do anything. Quran says He does anything He want. And Allah don’t wanna create another being like Him because He knows He cannot. He has power over all such things which are in present in the universe, because everything in the universe is created by Him. Understan?

    • @moolshankar says

      @slave of prophet, you are right my brother but see what this agniveer is doing with aryasamaj….he has deleted the pages of satyarth prakash which were related to n-i-y-o-g and if you write any comment related to it then he delete these comments.

      do you know my basic teaching is n-i-y-g and this filthy agniveer is deleting and banning this word. you look to be sensible person so please explain what is n-y-o-g.-.

      please truth sicker please..

      • Slave of holy prophet (SAW) says

        @Moolshanker
        Moolshanker was worst person. He defamed our great Islamic prophet Mohammed (SAW) who taught the world how to keep child wife and how to manage multiple wives. My prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was merciful enough that he killed only male person who used to bow before stones/idols and he made sex slave their women. Prophet Mohammed also taught many thing like how can we produce children from slaves women. Prophet Mohammed taught us woman is half intelligible and she need to bring one more woman as witness as to be equal to one man.
        About me
        मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

        • anti-agni says

          @false slave of prophet. y u have forgotten n-i-y-0g?????
          Hahaha.
          if u are real slave then u have to explain it and y agniveer deleted pages of satyarhprakash related ro it.???? Phans gaya bachu

          • Slave of holy prophet (SAW) says

            @anti-agni
            Please do not talk of Kufr. Dayanand was Kufr. I am followers of prophet (Mohammed). Allah will punish them Hindu and Arya Samaji for not getting worship from them.

          • Slave of holy prophet (SAW) says

            @Anti-Agni
            Please do not talk of Kufr. Dayanand was Kufr. I am follower of prophet (Mohammed). Allah will punish them Hindu and Arya Samaji for not getting worship from them.
            About me
            मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

          • anti-agni says

            @false slave. y all aryasamajis so much scared from n-i-y-o-g main teaching of veda and ur guru????

            Y agniveer deleted those pages related o n-i-y-g?
            If you can’t talk on ur belief then y are you here? It is a vedic site and we cant discuss islam here..discussion of islan is banned…you cab urself think that y should aryasamajis be interested in islam or quran or prophet Muhammad s.a.w???

            So restrict urself to n- i -yo- g? Hahaha if you wabt to discuss. islam go to islamic site of irf!!!! P

          • Slave of holy prophet (SAW) says

            @anti-agni
            Why do you call me false slave of beloved prophet Mohammed (SAW)? What wrong I am doing which is against Islam. I daily recite Kalama all 5 times to please Allah. Allah will punish you to harass a believer like me. I think Agniveer deleted the pages because he would have thought it is not good as Agniveer already said That his belief is
            Yajurved 19.77
            All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
            And
            About me (Me Slave of prophet)
            मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

  56. anti-agni says

    @maria… sister this filthy false slave is deceiving by pretending as Muslim so we have to be careful in answering him…..

    • anti-agni says

      @false slave, if u r not false then y are u replying ? Hahaha
      now u come that main theory of moolshankar of n-i_y-o-g is false….wow i pray that you discover in your life that. not only ni–yg but also veda and aryasamaj is false..

      what about that an aryasamaji can only 10 times meet in their whole married life….you just ask any doctor or any commons man thatt is possible ? How could you get putra then? Only using n-iy-o-g.

      what about an aryasamaji woman can’t feed her child with her milk but she has to wax coat the nipple so that milk should not come out(satyarth praksh)

      • Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

        @anti-agni
        Hey man why do you call me false salve of holy prophet? What I wrong you found in me. I believe Islam is only true religion. I believe in ghost, Jinn etc Kayamat Day, miracles, prophet Mohammed etc. I believe Allah will punish eternally to non-believers for not getting worship from them. I believe I will get 72 virgins in heaven & I recite Kalama also daily.
        Please bring in my notice where I am wrong, I will correct my self.
        I am a true slave of prophet.
        About me (Me Slave of prophet)
        मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

        • anti-agni says

          @false slave. y are u responding if you are not false slave? Are you result of n-i-y-o-g ?

          You said that you have done sex with ur daughter in law. and for ur kind information it is haram in islam and punishable crime and if are married 55 yrs old old crook then your punishment is stone to death .

          now if you are real slave then go and request to muslim community that give you death punishment. ok byee and never comment again…go and take your punishment. hate monger aryasamaji devilish monster.

          • Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

            @anti-agni
            Helo Mr. I am on the path of prophet. Prophet is my ideal. My prophet (SAW) did marry with Zainab who was his daughter in law. So, by marrying with daughter in law i followed the prophet. Other Muslim also should follow the same. My Grand father also was follower of prophet he also did marry with a girl 8 years old at the age of 81.
            About me (Me Slave of prophet)
            मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

          • anti-agni says

            @hate monger aryssamaji moolshankar slave devlish monster truth sicker. y are u not posting these days as truth seeker??? Where he has gone?
            You are wrong that zainab was sister in law prophet…..according to islamiic law which prophet wad spreading there was no law for adoption so according to law zaid r.a was not son of prophet and so zainab r.a can never be. daughter in law so your moolsjankar’s allegation is wrong .
            so what you have done is punishable crime according to islamic law….so yo have to accept death punishment .

            now what about n-i-y0-g? Are u result of yhat because ur father can’t produce u and ur brother/sister. in only 10 shots so hhe has to take help of n-yg.

  57. anti-agni says

    @maria. these aryasamajis are blockhead persons…their allegations have been answered so many times still they are busy maligning islam…

    you can continue your duty of propagation of islam but just keep in mind that are not truth seekers or innocents persons but they malign islam because it is favourate business of moolshankar.

    • Maria (IslamicDefence) says

      @Anti-agni

      At the time of prophet (PBUH) there were also such rebellious people but Prophet kept on his duty. Quran says our purpose is just to tell them the truth, we will b rewarded for our good deeds, & on the day of Qayamah they’ll not be able to blame anyone & definitely they’ll regret if they dont accept the truth.

  58. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur
    Your words : “a lot of change in your attitude”
    Re: Nah! a little bitter. I realize if one is not offensive with you, then you shouldn’t too & another thing all non-Muslims’re not same. & Allah wants us to b patient. But gussa to ata he hay jb log bura kerty hain definitely.

    Your words: It’s not allowed to kill an innocent Muslim (Bukhari) – what about innocent non Muslim?
    Re: Innocent non-Muslims? Whom r you talking about? When did Allah says to kill the innocent?

    Your words: Quran 17.47 “And we have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur’an, they turn back in aversion.”
    Re: This is 4 those who’re rebellious, who mock Islam 4 the sake of amusement in the name of their so-called freedom of expression & in fact wanna injure the feelings of Muslims & who read Qur’an in order to defeat Allah & Prophet not 4 the search of truth; just spread lies about Islam & neglect the true meanings & fit the meanings of verses into their mean – One can analyse any text without mocking & without wishing ill to others but their arrogancy doesn’t let them to do so, who remain arrogant & impenitent while analysing Quran.
    (Quran 8:23)==>If Allah had found in them any good, He would indeed have made them listen; (as it is) if He had made them listen, they would but have turned back and declined (faith).

    Your words: how does tearing a book become inhuman?
    Re: How can u neglect all other things I typed? I said they tear Qur’anic pages then urinate & dance over it while playing music(American soldiers did so) . A retional man will never do so; Will you like to do so? They kknow Quran is Muslims’ Most Sacred & Holy book but still they do so to injure the feelings of Muslims, so it’s inhuman.

    Yes one shoulsn’t b biased.

    You quoted: Quran 48:8 Indeed, We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.
    Re: So? What do u want to tell you? Don’t get.

    Your words: what if he a good person does charitable deeds.
    Re: (Quran 8:23)==>If Allah had found in them any good, He would indeed have made them listen; (as it is) if He had made them listen, they would but have turned back and declined (faith).

    Your words :”Quran 22:51 (that you misquoted)”
    Re: Nah! I gave u the whole concept. You seem to be biased completely.

    Good to hear you don’t worship idols &believe in One God. So u dont do shirk, Allah forgives everyone besides the one who commit shirk (Quran)

  59. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur
    Your words:
    “Women are comparable to Dogs (Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490, Sahih Muslim 4:1032)Women are mere possessions (Sahih Bukhari 3:34:264) Women are to be treated as sexual objects (Sahih Bukhari 6:60:402)”

    Re:
    Give me links.

  60. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    Your words: That’s ● ● ● Why the female gets 100 lashes because she couldn’t prove that she was raped)
    Wrong. If a women is raped she don’t get 100 lashes. She will get hundered lashes if she willingly have illicit relation with others.

  61. anti-agni says

    @aryasamaj, you have propagated on your fb page that Zakir naik questioned ganesha the elephant head and shiva so he is terrorist and your Moolshankar has abused every religion, religious personalities, hindus, jains, budhus so what about him? he was biggest terrorist…p

  62. anti-agni says

    @false slave, how filthy dirty hate monger you are a ‘true liar’ characteristic feature to become aryasamaji, you have written……… “id? I am not talking my grant father marriage with daughter -in-law.” you earlier words “मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया ”
    you can read here http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26186 and see your foolishness and filth. now will you have courage to get rajam punishment? hate monger you can see that “And say, “Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart.”” quran 17:81

    these are the signs of Allah which He is showing you in thsi world and you have chance to accept Islam.

  63. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    Have you read the whole Veda?
    Can you tell me?
    How much of peaceful Veda is?

    Make answer (if you can) without supplying me any link.

    • anti-agni says

      @maria, no one can read whole veda because they dont know what is veda, those four books are not veda but real knowledge is veda, truth is veda and I dont who will decide what is truth ie veda?

      at agniveer no one can say that yes I have read whole veda , you canask as many times as you want.

      best of luck

  64. Angira says

    @Maria (IslamaicTaqiyayist) (Taqiya-Lie permitted for Muslims in Quran for converting non Muslims Q: 66:2 & many more)
    Allah of Quran orders Muslim males to perform must do sex with slave girls. Quran 4:24 And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess…
    Dear Sophisticated Taqiyayist, Adam-Eve theory is already proven joke & top fiction by modern science as it is impossible event that humanity would have born from single pair of males & females since we can see various human races of different color black, white, chinese, indo-aryan, mongol etc. Go to any biologist they will reply you that all these people cant have same father & mother , there is different set of DNA structure in each of ancestors of these races. so at time of human inception there would have been various human races both males & females not like one male & female as what mythological Adam-Eve story says.
    By the way, you dont have to worry about defending that as it is job of Biblical scholar, Author of Quran has just copied it from bible like many other fictions. By the way Adam-eve theory if represented as historical point of view then only found in full context in Bible in Genesis, which gives absurd history that the garden in which Adam & even were trolling was near Genesis 2:14 And the name of the third river is Tigris, which goes to the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. So according to absurd Abrahmic religions god created first Tigres river of Mesopotamia which is wrong as first rivers were in India, china, pakistan etc. from mountain of Himalaya the oldest one on the earth.
    Quran just copied it so be relax , it is not your responsibility to defend that Adam-eve fiction , let some Evangelist come to defend it.

  65. dogra says

    This site is about sanatan dharma,not islam.
    Let us not lose focus, amd remeber Hinduism is a pluralistic faith ie recognises different faiths, as we are all not robots.
    Anti hindu muppets can never answer:
    1) saying god resides in hearts of all beings
    2) Karma Yoga-selfless service without expectation of rewards
    3) Jai Mata di, clear gender equality in scriptures, if not why are they female froms of god, , no answer that s right

  66. Angira says

    @Vicjags,
    You say
    “EFFECTS OF READING SCIENCE FROM AGNIVEER SITE ”
    I challenge you to prove whether what i said was copy-paste from Agniveer site or was even referring to arguments made by Agniveer in any of numerous article in this site. I thought it my self that what would have been different viewpoint or possible event in human inception apart from traditional & orthodox viewpoint held by both scientific & creationist world. Do not make judgmental statements about which you do not have sufficient background knowledge. If you want to know what hinduism position on evolution is , read my this recent comment in reply to another cannibal eater http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26646
    You say ” We are saying that both bacteria and Human being evolved from the same ancestor.. In fact even plants and animals (which FYI includes humans too) share the same genetic precursor.” //////////////////// No one is going to believe in this fiction without sufficient evidences. Produce some evidence (Please not by forgery or by manufacturing some Human like ape skeletons in laboratory like evolutionists did in past) for transitional fossils of evolution of fish & how it came out of water?
    FYI, i do not want any lecture series or copy-pasted terms from evolution sites but clear & objective specific reply. ———————————————————————————————————————————————–I do not want to read the hazardous & unclear,confusing scriptures like New Testament which is not sure about fundamental event which is base of the entire religion “Crucifiction of Jesus”–In Jerusalem or in Rome –here is confusion–Matthew 27:55-56 -And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.—-says that it was in Jerusalem while this refers to great city of Rome where crucifiction happened–Revelations 11:8–And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. ———————————————————————————————————————————————–You say “Actually in technical terms, inter racial variations are nothing but a product of micro evolutionary changes which are so common in plant and animal species and random genetic mutations occur all the time and extremely common in plant kingdom.. I have never heard anyone deny such micro evolutionary changes…”— I have not denied micro evolution changes, what i am denying is evolution from species to another set of species–. i.e. from ape to human, because i do not believe in fiction as rational person when transitional fossil evidences are null in support to an imaginary scientific novel & at the same time i have an idea that even humans or other animals, plants might be having multiple ancestors, moreover i reject even contradictions & unclear writings such as Christian Gospels as i exemplified .

    • Angira says

      @TO ALL MEMBERS IN FORUM , see how dishonest Evangelists & Taqiyayists run away when their bogus scriptures are put under slightest scrutiny. Just one simple fundamental question about christian theology & Evangelist is down!!! WOW————————————————————————
      When Xtian could not find a single reference to Agniveer articles to what i said, he brought that false analogy between my response to Maria & Debunking Atheism articles of Agniveer. Any intellectual person can check those articles & compare it to my reply to Maria whether i borrowed idea from them or was it completely innovative! Since i have read all those articles long ago, i did not have them even in mind while responding to Maria. BTW what he “responded” to my challenge shows how ignorant the POPE is at intellectual level, what he quoted was Agniveer’s explanation of how funny & crazzy, illogical,irrational Atheism is if it is seen in its full context. Moreover Agniveer also wrote about common ancestor theory of Atheism in order to criticize it in its full context, while what i typed was not about common ancestor at all but about possible human inception events might have happened with multiple ancestors.————————————-So I Thank him to show ignorance & dishonesty of dumb Christians, i am sure rational & righteous persons would take their evidences from here onwards how pseudo-intellectuals these Xtians are & what danger our Mother India has got from such people!.—————————————————————————————————-
      For one christian intellect this might be unacceptable as what Jesus taught them was like only christian can get salvation & non-christians(Heathen) will burn in eternal hell. (Still they preach Jesus loves you!!!) This is what we believe,
      Yajur Veda 40.7
      Yasmintsarvaani bhutaanyaatmaivaabhuudvijaanatah
      Tatra ko mohah kah shokah ekatvamanupasyatah
      Yajurveda 40.7
      “Those who see all beings as souls do not feel infatuation or anguish at their sight, for they experience oneness with them”—– so i dont believe that Mongoloid, Caucasian and Negroid are apes but i believe that they are humans.Anyway my point was not at all in direction of whether these races were humans or not, i only made a statement about multiple ancestors of humans. It is understandable when one gets owned in forum of such a worldwide famous site, then start to put words in mouth of opponent.

  67. SDC says

    While I agree with Vicjag to the extent that one must learn science from proper and authentic sources, he needs to be reminded that most of the charlatans that he talks about come from Christian backgrounds who tirelessly try to justify the existence of giants, angels, demons, etc., reject the established norms of scientific study and suggest nonsensical ones, recast and distort history to fit into their ideological mold, produce fake archaeological evidences. Mac was one of them. And this hypocrite applauded Mac for his efforts (of trying to fool others) at bringing the message of the gospel to the Hindus.

    • Angira says

      @TO ALL MEMBERS IN FORUM , see how dishonest Evangelists & Taqiyayists run away when their bogus scriptures are put under slightest scrutiny. Just one simple fundamental question about christian theology & Evangelist is down!!! WOW————————————————————————
      When Xtian could not find a single reference to Agniveer articles to what i said, he brought that false analogy between my response to Maria & Debunking Atheism articles of Agniveer. Any intellectual person can check those articles & compare it to my reply to Maria whether i borrowed idea from them or was it completely innovative! Since i have read all those articles long ago, i did not have them even in mind while responding to Maria. BTW what he “responded” to my challenge shows how ignorant the POPE is at intellectual level, what he quoted was Agniveer’s explanation of how funny & crazzy, illogical,irrational Atheism is if it is seen in its full context. Moreover Agniveer also wrote about common ancestor theory of Atheism in order to criticize it in its full context, while what i typed was not about common ancestor at all but about possible human inception events might have happened with multiple ancestors.————————————-So I Thank him to show ignorance & dishonesty of dumb Christians, i am sure rational & righteous persons would take their evidences from here onwards how pseudo-intellectuals these Xtians are & what danger our Mother India has got from such people!.—————————————————————————————————-
      For one christian intellect this might be unacceptable as what Jesus taught them was like only christian can get salvation & non-christians(Heathen) will burn in eternal hell. (Still they preach Jesus loves you!!!) This is what we believe,
      Yajur Veda 40.7
      Yasmintsarvaani bhutaanyaatmaivaabhuudvijaanatah
      Tatra ko mohah kah shokah ekatvamanupasyatah
      Yajurveda 40.7
      “Those who see all beings as souls do not feel infatuation or anguish at their sight, for they experience oneness with them”—– so i dont believe that Mongoloid, Caucasian and Negroid are apes but i believe that they are humans.Anyway my point was not at all in direction of whether these races were humans or not, i only made a statement about multiple ancestors of humans. It is understandable when one gets owned in forum of such a worldwide famous site, then start to put words in mouth of opponent.

  68. Ankur says

    @Maria your are back!! Good, a lot of change in your attitude seems you have started to be a good Muslim now, you have shunted your reasoning and killed the voice of your conscience gifted by Allah, like your other majority believing and mind blind Muslims ummah.

    JUST FOR FUN

    It’s not allowed to kill an innocent Muslim (Bukhari)
    — what about innocent non Muslim :)
    During war one can’t burn non-Muslims but can use other methods of fighting (Bukhari, vol 2)
    — This is a gem of pious knowledge
    If they say anything wrong, in response Muslims should bear it with patience, ignore it & say them salam (peace) & say a very good thing (28:55) (25:63) (3:186) (23:96) (4:63) (50:39) (20:130).
    — ya this is what exactly Muslims do :)

    Read your ideology here (inhuman and blasphemous actions– how does tearing a book become inhuman?)

    so Quran 17.47

    “And we have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And when you mention your Lord alone in the Qur’an, they turn back in aversion.”

    now do you see why non Muslims are the way they are because its Allah who has covered their hearts could you not read when you were quoting, you say one should not be arrogant (other word i did not understand) but you forget one should not be biased, don’t know which Quran you are reading

    Quran 48:8 is as below.
    Sahih International
    Indeed, We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner
    Muhsin Khan
    Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner.
    Pickthall
    Lo! We have sent thee (O Muhammad) as a witness and a bearer of good tidings and a warner,
    Yusuf Ali
    We have truly sent thee as a witness, as a bringer of Glad Tidings, and as a Warner:
    Shakir
    Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
    Dr. Ghali
    Surely We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good tidings, and a constant warrner,

    did your not read Quran 22:9 just after 22:8 that you misquote

    “Twisting his neck [in arrogance] to mislead [people] from the way of Allah . For him in the world is disgrace, and We will make him taste on the Day of Resurrection the punishment of the Burning Fire [while it is said],

    — anyone who follows any other path than what you follow (its assumed that only Islam is right, without even comparing) will burn in Hell fire(what if he a good person does charitable deeds. are you confused now or you have stopped thinking??)

    Quran 22:51 (that you misquoted)

    Sahih International
    But the ones who strove against Our verses, [seeking] to cause failure – those are the companions of Hellfire.
    Muhsin Khan
    But those who strive against Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), to frustrate and obstruct them, they will be dwellers of the Hell-fire.
    Pickthall
    While those who strive to thwart Our revelations, such are rightful owners of the Fire.
    Yusuf Ali
    “But those who strive against Our Signs, to frustrate them,- they will be Companions of the Fire.”
    Shakir
    And (as for) those who strive to oppose Our communications, they shall be the inmates of the flaming fire.
    Dr. Ghali
    And the ones who have endeavored against Our signs trying to defy them, those will be the companions (i.e., inhabitants) of Hell-Fire.

    — Again hell fire!!!

    Seems Allah had made sure to make people surrender or its hell fire for them irrespective of their personal good traits/deeds.

    Question Answer
    – What do you mean by “one God”?
    -> One origin and one creator
    – What’re the attributes of God as per Veda?
    -> Read the article available on Vedic GOD on this site.
    – Besides all such attributes which’re in Veda what’re the “additional” attributes of God as per “you” & how did you detect these? What’re the basis 4 it? Just imagination or anythingelse?
    -> i need not give the definition of GOD, read the answer to your second question
    – Do you worship Idols?
    NO we don’t, Veda does not prescribe Idol worship but there is no need to kill who do. They are just misguided.
    – What’re “Idol + s = Idols” if God is one?
    -> God and Idol have no relation
    – Is there any logical reason due to which you worship Idols?
    -> Irrelevant question read here for your understanding http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-25737
    – (As the belief of a religious person is biased on his scripture) So how did you come to know that you should worship Idols? What’re the basis 4 it? Does Veda teach to worship Idols?
    -> Irrelevant question & Answered.

  69. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur
    9) It’s not allowed to kill an innocent Muslim (Bukhari)
    *Edit*
    9) It’s not allowed to kill an innocent *non* Muslim (Bukhari)
    “non” was left just by mistake.

    Your words: “did your not read Quran 22:9 just after 22:8 that you misquote.”
    Re: No, I didn’t misquote. If one’ll read Qur’an with knowledge i.e with correct & exact translation & explanation or tafseer or history he can achieve the true path. Or otherwise he can’t get the true path. (Quran 22:8)==> And among men is he who disputes about Allâh, without knowledge or guidance, or a Book giving light (from Allâh) (Qur’an 22:9)==>Turning away in pride to beguile (men) from the way of Allah. For him in this world is ignominy, and on the Day of Resurrection We make him taste the doom of burning.

    Now you don’t seem to b logical.

  70. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur

    In my post ” http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26127” , I wrote:

    “Your words :Quran 22:51 (that you misquoted)
    Re: Nah! I gave u the whole concept. You seem to be biased completely.”

    I missunderstood , I was on thought you were talking about (5:51).
    But it was (22:51)
    (22:51)==>But those who strive against Our to frustrate them, they will be dwellers of the Hell-fire.
    When you read the explanation It’ll clear from the verse doesn’t like if someone reads His verses in order to defeat Him, to achieve hidayah ones aim shouldn’t to strive against Allah but to know the truth.So while analsing Qur’an the purpose should b to know the truth.

  71. Ankur says

    @Maria :if you know(sorry believe is the right word as knowing needs proof) that Islam is the truth , then i would suggest you stay away from this website for keeping your own reasoned belief intact.

    Y shouldn’t Allah-Subhana-Wa-Ta’ala allow death penalty 4 such a rebellious person?
    He is the Greatest & an Omnipotent being, He has a right to issue such a law.
    It’ll injure the feelings of Muslims in millions & millions if only one non-Muslim does so; So if such a person is put to death, none’ll dare to do so again.
    The cry of peace willn’t b a far cry if they stop doing so. Allah wants us to b peaceful, therefore, He issued such a law.

    why cant Allah being greatest and all powerful and do what he wants BEING, carry out the death sentence by himself, why does he need men to do his bidding?

    some more info.
    Men keeping sex-Slaves is okay (Quran 4:24=Sex-slaves- right hand possesses)

    According to Muhammad,

    ● a woman lacks common sense they are mentally deficient.(Sahih Bukhari 2:624:541)
    ● Women are comparable to Dogs (Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490, Sahih Muslim 4:1032)
    ● Women are mere possessions (Sahih Bukhari 3:34:264)
    ● Women are to be treated as sexual objects (Sahih Bukhari 6:60:402)
    ● Minimum 4 witnesses are needed to indict a rapist.(who will bother testifying? That’s ● ● ● Why the female gets 100 lashes because she couldn’t prove that she was raped)
    ● Women are even Compared to the Devil (Sahih Muslim 8:1038)
    ● Islam permits a MAN to marry upto 4 women(polygyny sura 4:3..not polyandry)?
    [all are equally immoral..but still why this bias?]
    ● Woman’s witness is worth half of a man’s (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301)
    ● Muhammad suggested marrying young women so they can be fondled (Sahih Bukhari 3:38:504) :Muhammad said, “Where are you going?” Abdullah said, “I have married a widow.” He said, “Why have you not married a VIRGIN to fondle with each other?”
    Is it a big surprise that Muhammad Himself exposed a 9-yr old Child! to sex??

    ● A wife is cursed if she refuses to sleep with er husband whenever HUSBAND WANTS it, even if with force.(freewill?) (Sahih Muslim 8:3366, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:121)

  72. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:
    Islam forbids one to harm those under his authority. Since rape is
    considered a form of harm that would mean that rape is forbidden. In light
    of this fact, there is nothing absurd in believing that the Muslims
    did not rape their slave girls especially since they were forbidden
    from doing so. And even if some of the Muslims back then did rape
    their slave girls, this would only show that they committed a sinful
    act and not that the Prophet (PBUH) approved of such
    behavior.
    A man cannot have relation with the girls under possession without the basic agreement/marriage. If the slave girl is Muslimah then the term “Nikah” is necessary & if the slave girl is non-Muslimah this marriage/agreement is illustrated by a simile (I don’t remember this word now). None of man can have relation with his slave girl unless agreement/marriage take place.
    In conclusion, Islam does not permit the Muslim man to rape
    his slave girl.

  73. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    Your words:
    why cant Allah being greatest and all powerful and do what he wants BEING, carry out the death sentence by himself, why does he need men to do his bidding?

    Re:
    Plain & simple it’s just his commandmend as the life is test, one has given free will, Allah Himself given the chance to the one either accept & follow His orders or not.

    Above I read Vedic God wants bliss every one. He is all powerful.
    He wants bliss every one but still every human being doesn’t do good acts , they do wrong as a result they get punishment , (whatever kind of punishment they get) Still if Vedic God wants to bliss every human being.
    So can one consider God isn’t all powerful? Of course not. God has given us free will, we’ve God gifted brain to think what should we do & what shouldn’t. If a robber or a killer don’t stop killng & robbing & then say ” If God is all powerfull then Y dosn’t He stop me?” This question is senseless, because he has a brain & heart to think & realize either he should do such criminal acts or not.

    Your words: I would suggest you stay away from this website
    Reply: I will b good if you keep your suggestion with yourself. I need not, sorry, but don’t permit you either.

  74. hinduagnostic says

    ankur gave you references go check if they are correct ill give you each of verses
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
    On ‘Id ul Fitr or ‘Id ul Adha Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, “O people! Give alms.” Then he went towards the women and said. “O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women).” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?” He replied, “O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.Sahih Bukhari 2:624:541
    Narrated ‘Aisha:The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him.” Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490
    Narrated Ibrahim bin Sad from his father from his grand-father:
    Abdur Rahman bin Auf said, “When we came to Medina as emigrants, Allah’s Apostle established a bond of brotherhood between me and Sad bin Ar-Rabi’. Sad bin Ar-Rabi’ said (to me), ‘I am the richest among the Ansar, so I will give you half of my wealth and you may look at my two wives and whichever of the two you may choose I will divorce her, and when she has completed the prescribed period (before marriage) you may marry her.’Sahih Bukhari 3:34:264
    Narrated by Abdullah bin Qais
    Allah’s Apostle said, “In Paradise there is a pavilion made of a single hollow pearl sixty miles wide, in each corner of which there are wives who will not see those in the other corners; and the believers will visit and enjoy them.Sahih Bukhari 6:60:402
    .” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301
    When we approached Medina, I started going (towards my house). The Prophet said, “Where are you going?” I Sad, “I have married a widow.” He said, “Why have you not married a virgin to fondle with each other?” Sahih Bukhari 3:38:504
    Narrated by Abu Huraira
    The Prophet said, “A woman should not fast (optional fasts) except with her husband’s permission if he is at home (staying with her).”
    Narrated by Abu Huraira
    The Prophet said, “If a man Invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning.”
    Narrated by Abu Huraira
    The Prophet said, “If a woman spends the night deserting her husband’s bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband).” Sahih Bukhari 7:62:120-121

    these are the verses from sahih bukhari i can also give you verses from sahih muslim

  75. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:
    *Edit*
    Re: * It * will b good if you keep your suggestion with yourself. I need not, sorry, but i don’t permit you either.
    I mature enough to understand discussing faith is not the wastage of time this is the important thing one must do in ones life. I’m making the best use of time of my life.

    Give the links of all the Hadiths you quoted.

  76. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @ Ankur:

    Your words: That’s ● ● ● Why the female gets 100 lashes because she couldn’t prove that she was raped.
    Re:
    Wrong. If a women is raped she will NEVER EVER get 100 lashes.
    She will get 100 lashes if she willingly have illicit relations with others. This rule implies on a man too if he do such a HEINOUS & MAJOR SIN he will also get 100 lashes.

  77. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    provide me the links/ sources of all the Hadiths you quoted from “Islamic websites” not from anti-Islamic. So that I can anaslyse whether all your claims can b justified or not.

  78. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    Your words: “Is it a big surprise that Muhammad Himself exposed a 9-yr old Child! to …….”

    Re:
    Now that looks odd in modern age. in older days that was common to marry a youngest girl. And I’m not talking about normal man, Muhammad was Prophet (PBUH), He knew how to behave with a girl of 9. Aysha married Him willingly, her mind was ready to accept this because it was common in those days to marry a girl of 9 or 10 ; In Islam there’s no compulsion. A girl can either accept the proposal or reject it. Marriage depends on her choice.(Hadith). It’s forbidden in Islam to have relation with a girl before her puberty. Prohpt did so at the age of her puberty. Prophet’s behaviour with her was very very good. Look at history Ayesha was happy with prophet (PBUH), she loves Prophet. He (PBUH) was very kind, sympathy, loving & caring with Aisha (R.A) , He (PBUH) proved an examplery husband. in addition, in america and the 21st century there is this extended period of childhood. In the past, people were marrying and supporting families at the age of 10-12.. some children reach the age of puberty 8-10. It was normal for the people in the past during those days 4 elderly man to marry a youngest girl…EVEN IN
    ENGLAND, ONLY IN 1275, THE AGE OF MARRIAGE 4 GIRL WAS PUT AT 12 YEARS
    OLD. SEARCH 4 “ENCYCLOPEDIA OF CHILDREN & CHILDHOOD IN HISTORY &
    SOCIETY”.

  79. hinduagnostic says

    thats not the point give me an example of a 50 year old man marrying a 9 year old girl and having sex with her do not show me pedophile? as for anti islamic alot of sources are correct if you actually check them only you muslims intepret it to make it look correct

  80. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    You quoted: Islam permits a MAN to marry upto 4 women(polygyny sura 4:3..not polyandry)?
    Re:
    Read the verse completely. A man can marry 4 women ONLY IN A CODITION if he can do justice amongst all his wives otherwise it’s NOT allowed AT ALL.
    Polyandry? We women need NOT, u men desire 4 women Hunh!

    ● A wife is cursed if she refuses to ——– with her husband whenever HUSBAND WANTS it, even if with force.(freewill?) (Sahih Muslim 8:3366, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:121)
    Re:
    So do u mean such a husband should b hanged over?
    Thats not illicit relation. I’ve not seen EVER even a single law which justifies punishment 4 such a husband. The wife shouldn’t refused so that the husband desires NOT 4 other illicit relations with other women & can b able to keep himself pure & keep away himself from the MAJOR SIN ….. adultery.

  81. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    Your words: Women are comparable to Dogs (Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490, Sahih Muslim 4:1032)
    Hadith:
    The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him.” Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490)

    Re:
    Read craefully women are not copmareable to dogs but their acts of passing in front of the praying people is comparable to dogs.
    So If a woman doesn’t passes in front of the praying people her act will NOT b comparable to dog.
    General example: Just like a man’s or woman’s foolishness is copmarable to a donkey. One can never copmare a wise man or a woman to a donkey.

    In the above Hadith Ayesh’s words: ” You have made us dogs “.
    Here one cannot take the meaning she & all other Muslimah women turned into dogs by sructure/shape.

    DONT BE SO SMART.

  82. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:
    ● Women are mere possessions (Sahih Bukhari 3:34:264)
    ● Women are to be treated as sexual objects (Sahih Bukhari 6:60:402)
    ● Women are even Compared to the Devil (Sahih Muslim 8:1038)

    Re:
    Quote the whole Hadiths.

    ” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. ”
    Re:
    And if it is a truth then?
    Can you disprove it if i cant prove it? Really? Okay, now give me some scintific reasons wich justifies the intelect of men & women is equal. Disprove it and i mean to say DISPROVE IT . And hurry up!

  83. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    ● Minimum 4 witnesses are needed to indict a rapist. who will bother testifying?
    Re:
    Who’ll bother testifyung? Of course the ones who will b the eye witness to it.

    You people just fit the Hadiths into your mean. When Allah allows Death penalty 4 rapists & adulters then non-Muslims says; Oh such a harsh law “Stonning…..Death penalty!

    But when Allah say 4 witnesses should b there to approve the sin as it’s the matter of death & life then they come up with such a abjection as you raised.

    If a women claim to b raped then 4 eye witnesses should b there so that she CANNOT falsely charge a pious man.

    Allah! The most wisest of all , O Allah give some ” way of understanding ” to these people.

  84. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @ Ankur:
    Narrated Ibrahim bin Sad from his father from his grand-father: Abdur Rahman bin Auf said, “When we came to Medina as emigrants, Allah’s Apostle established a bond of brotherhood between me and Sad bin Ar-Rabi’. Sad bin Ar-Rabi’ said (to me), ‘I am the richest among the Ansar, so I will give you half of my wealth and you may look at my two wives and whichever of the two you may choose I will divorce her, and when she has completed the prescribed period (before marriage) you may marry her.”

    Re:

    This Hadith doesn’t show that women are mere possession. Where is such a sentence in the whole Hadith? Do you know why did Sad bin Ar-Rabi said ” whichever of the two you may choose I will divorce her, and when she has completed the prescribed period (before marriage) you may marry her.”
    Because this was the honour 4 those women to marry Prophet. There’s a Hadith from Bukhari which justifies ” Marriage depends on women’s will” . So the wives of Sad bin Ar-Rabi thyself wanted to marry Prophet (PBUH), it was a great great hounur 4 them. I read this thing somewhere in Hadiths.

  85. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    ● Women are even Compared to the Devil (Sahih Muslim 8:1038)

    Re:
    Hadith doesn’t say Women are devil . The actuall meaning of Hadith A man’s feelimgs 4 a women urged him to do evil deed… MAJOR SIN… Adultery. So Prophet say come to your wife if you feel anything wrong by seeing another women.
    U can understand this Hadith very well but try to fit it into your mean.

    You Quoted: Sahih Bukhari 6:60:402
    I can understand now y do u people want to talk over “such a thing” ——-. Hunh! Shut it and i mean to say SHUT IT. Just be off.

  86. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic
    Your words: these are the verses from sahih bukhari i can also give you verses from sahih muslim
    Re:
    Don’t bother. I’ve answered about all. So shut it.

  87. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:
    Just a question:

    As u r Vedantist so definitely you have read the whole Veda so tell me: Is there such a verse which seem to b inhuman or unpleasant or not? About war or any other thing?

    I’m just curious.

  88. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur
    Your words:
    you did not say why Allah does not jsut say “so be it” and the kufr people just die who dont belive in his words, why does he need henchmen to do his job.after all he can do what he wants.
    Re:
    Allah’s will.

    Your words:
    For You its INHUMAN to burn and urinate etc on Quran(a book) but its totally ACCEPTABLE & BENIGH AND and HUMAN to kill the male prisoners of war(y not kill both men and women) and take their women as sex slaves{Quran 4:3 those your right hand possesses} , isnt it?
    Re:
    No. As far as i know Muslims never killed war prisoners, but only in the battlefield. And if in the battlefield they’ll not kill non-Muslim men then they (Muslims) would b killed by non-Muslim men, this thing is common in fighting. In war even in the battle field killing of women AND ALSO “CHILDREN” completely forbidden, because both women & children can’t fight, attacking on them will b just a cowardly attack.
    Did you read the my post?–> {http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26255}
    Slave women have also their own proper rights.

    Your words:
    well a possession is something that you dont have to ask a permission before handing it over..does that make it clear to you…
    Re:
    What does Veda say about women? Give me the best link u know so that I can read, thanks.

  89. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:

    A number of Muslims were under the possession of non-Muslims, After victory non-Muslims & Muslims take the defeated on as prisoners. (you said Muslims killed all men & left women. No after victory of war they took children, women & Men too as prisoners). The difference between between Muslims & non-Muslims ,in this aspect, was that non-Muslim conduct or behavior towards prisoner was very inhuman, they intercourse with any women they want, one women by a number of men & towards men their behavior was extremely unpleasant. But Muslims behavior towards non-Muslims prisoner was good , many times they set them free, search for the behavior of Muslims towards prisoners from Islamic websites, u will see their behavior was very good with them. Through an proper agreement/under specific rules/marriage one non-Muslims slave women lead life with one Muslim, Muslim can’t even touch her), they give them proper status, food, clothes, other basic necessities of life, keep them in good condition. once a Muslim man slap his non-Muslimah slave on her face, on hearing this prophet got angreed him, & told him he should do good with her.
    it should be borne in mind that slavery was not something that was introduced by Islam; on the contrary, it was something that had its roots planted long before the advent of Islam. It would not be an exaggeration to state that slavery is probably as old as war itself, because it is one of the consequences of war. Thus, slavery apparently first reared its head with the first wars that took place an the face of earth.
    Sorry 4 unpleasant words of mine i used 4 u, maybe u r a pious man & i falsely charge u.
    Just tell me such things (about war or about anything) which seem to b unpleasant, inhuman are present in Veda or not?

    END IN FIASCO.

  90. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Ankur:
    *Edit*
    Through an proper agreement/under specific rules/marriage one non-Muslims slave women lead life with one Muslim, *other* Muslims can’t even touch her.
    just like one Muslim man cant do such with the wife of other Muslim brother in faith.

  91. anti-agni says

    @maria, Assalam sister you have real patience to answer sych irritating. aryasamajis …..you can see that they know islam very well many persons replied them many times but they continue repeating there allegations like parrots….

    answering these monsters is waist of time.. they so prejudised that they run a university gurukul kangri university haridwar which is fully funded by government but aryasamajis have made such rulles that no muskim can enter in that university .

    thay made compulsory for a candidate to b vegetarian…thete is no holiday in Christmas and eids…..thas y there is not a single muslim employee in whole university. you van check http://www.gkvharidwar.org

  92. Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

    @ANTI-AGNI/Maria
    Brother we should not allow them (Non-muslim) to live in Muslim country. Not worshiping Allah is world greatest sin even than rape, terrorism etc. They (Non-Muslim make mockery of Muslim person like me who is follower of prophet in day to day life. And these Arya Samaji against second marriage while Islam give us permission to keep four wives and unlimited sax slaves. That Why I like islam
    About me (Me Slave of prophet)
    मे इस्लाम मे पूरी आस्था र्रखता हू! मैने पगांबेर का अनुसरण करते हुये 55 वर्ष की आयु मे 6 वर्ष की कन्या से विवहा किया और और उसके 9 वर्ष का हो जाने पर उससे सेक्स किया! मेरे प्रॉफेट ने भी 54 वर्ष की आयु मे 9 वर्ष की आइसा से सेक्स किया था! मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया जैसे प्रॉफेट ने अपने बेटे की बहू जेनाब से किया था! मे अँपने जीवन मे पूरी तरह से प्रॉफेट के कदमो पर चलने के कोशिश करता हू

  93. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    Your words: ” you have not answered anything you just approved of the verses”.
    Re:
    As for Hadiths & verses I didn’t approve for what the meaning you take; Except for a few, I have given you mine & disapprove yours.

  94. hinduagnostic says

    you think you disapproved the verses from your holy prophet okay lets go through them you said “So do u mean such a husband should b hanged over?
    Thats not illicit relation. I’ve not seen EVER even a single law which justifies punishment 4 such a husband. The wife shouldn’t refused so that the husband desires NOT 4 other illicit relations with other women & can b able to keep himself pure & keep away himself from the MAJOR SIN ….. adultery.
    how can you blame the women if she doesnt want to have sex with her husband? it her freewill tthe angel should not send down curses because of that and ankur said you are allowed to have four wives he didnt say it says you have to have four wives but you can have up to it is better to divorce and mary another women in such circumstances then have four wives.
    and Re:
    Read craefully women are not copmareable to dogs but their acts of passing in front of the praying people is comparable to dogs.
    So If a woman doesn’t passes in front of the praying people her act will NOT b comparable to dog.
    General example: Just like a man’s or woman’s foolishness is copmarable to a donkey. One can never copmare a wise man or a woman to a donkey.
    In the above Hadith Ayesh’s words: ” You have made us dogs “.
    Here one cannot take the meaning she & all other Muslimah women turned into dogs by sructure/shape
    so your saying it good to compare a women to a dog just because she walks pass praying people ? okay what if i tell your beliefs in islam are like a fish wouldnt you feel insulted? and ankur didnt say they are made to dogs he said they comparable to dogs
    and I can understand now y do u people want to talk over “such a thing” ——-. and Hadith doesn’t say Women are devil . The actuall meaning of Hadith A man’s feelimgs 4 a women urged him to do evil deed… MAJOR SIN… Adultery. So Prophet say come to your wife if you feel anything wrong by seeing another women.

    isnt that an insult how is it the womens fault that she is beautiful didnt allah make her and cant a man be like a devil why is it always the women?

    U can understand this Hadith very well but try to fit it into your mean.Hunh! Shut it and i mean to say SHUT IT. Just be off. and This Hadith doesn’t show that women are mere possession. Where is such a sentence in the whole Hadith? Do you know why did Sad bin Ar-Rabi said ” whichever of the two you may choose I will divorce her, and when she has completed the prescribed period (before marriage) you may marry her.”
    Because this was the honour 4 those women to marry Prophet. There’s a Hadith from Bukhari which justifies ” Marriage depends on women’s will” . So the wives of Sad bin Ar-Rabi thyself wanted to marry Prophet (PBUH), it was a great great hounur 4 them. I read this thing somewhere in Hadiths”
    where does it say it was great honour for them it says they had brotherhood and because of his blind respect for the muhammed he allowed muhammed to marry any of the two it just shows that a men is under women first than second they can choose what they want and how can the prophet say women are dweller of hell thats wrong alot of muslim women are faithful to their religion and husband shouldnt they get heaven? your muslim preachers say there are more women than men but the truth is there are more women than men in the world

  95. anti-agni says

    @false slave, have you ever heard the name abdul mohammad? ie slave of muhammad? your name is wrong…

    secondly as you have mentioned you are 81 years crook and you have done zina with your daughter in law then according to islamic law you have done punishable crime and your punishment is stone to death so you have to re quest muslim community to give you death punishment by by beating with stone in public congregation. byeeeeeeeeee

    you are hate monger aryasamaji follower of veda and deletin n-i-y-o-g whic is basic teaching of veda..

    you peoples hate women so much that your maharishi never married so that he can give equal rights to any girl and suggsted n-i-y-o-g for napkin wrappers babas.

  96. Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

    @anti-agni
    _____________have you ever heard the name abdul mohammad______________
    I have heard only name of prophet(SAW) and Allah. I do not want to listen other name.
    ___________secondly as you have mentioned you are 81 years crook and you have done zina___________
    I Said my grand father also were follower of prophet. He married at the age of 81 with 8 years old girl as prophet did marry with Aisha 6 years old at the age of 55.
    ______________you are hate monger aryasamaji follower of veda______________
    I am follower of prophet & Quran. I recite Kalama 5 times.
    ____________deletin n-i-y-o-g whic is basic teaching of veda_________
    Yes, this may be true. But I have no complain to Agniveer about this because Agniveer already said that his belief is
    Yajurved 19.77
    – All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
    _________________our maharishi never married so that he can give equal rights to any girl __________
    This is personal matter. We should talk about this. There are many great people who did not marry like Swami Vivekanand, Bhagat Singh, Subhash Chander Boss, Chander Shekhar Aazad, Hanuman Ji, DR. Abdul Kalam, Atal Bihari Vajpayee etc.

  97. anti-agni says

    @false slave, ——I have heard only name of prophet(SAW) and Allah. I do not want to listen other name—— it means you have not seen ur name “slave of prophet” what a foolu are” real hate monger aryasamaji”

    ——-I Said my grand father also were follower of prophet. He married at the age of 81 with 8 years old girl —– if you are 55 years old crook and done Zina with your daughter in law then you have to get rajam punishment why are escaping this point?

    if you wrongly start to believe that your grandfather raped 16008 gopias then it doesnt mean that you can rape any girl? your grandfather is not accepting that but you are accepting so you are a criminal go and get your punishment.

    —-deletin n-i-y-o-g whic is basic teaching of veda_________
    Yes, this may be true. But I have no complain to Agniveer about this because Agniveer already said that his belief is—

    so one day you have to delete whole veda? kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare so abbbbbb? hahaha

    –This is personal matter. We should talk about this. There are many great people who did not marry like Swami Vivekanand, Bhagat Singh— it means your father and grand fathers were not great peoples because they have married and enjoyed more than 10 shots or 10 shots + n-i-y-o-g so why you exists? you belongs to a bad chain.

    it means no good person can take birth through great peoples??? what a foolish concept you have.

    but do not escape death punishment for you because you are accepting that you have done zina with your daughter in law and ummul momineen hazrat zainab was not daughter in law of prophet muhammad s.a.w…..so go and request muslim community to beat you with stones till you die painfully to go to hell..and share hell with greand legents like moolshankar.

  98. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    Your words: “you think you disapproved the verses from your holy prophet”
    Re:
    I did ” NOT DISAPPROVE ” the verses from my Holy Prophet (PBUH).
    I did ” NOT APPROVE ” what the meaning you take from the Hadiths & verses except ” few / very less” ;
    For the rest ones I have given you mine (Meaning – The real meaning) and have ” DISAPPROVED ” yours (Meaning – The false meaning).

  99. Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

    @Anti-Agni
    ____________ if you are 55 years old crook and done Zina with your daughter in law_________
    Hello I told that my grand father married with 8 years old girl at the age of 81. He was great followers of prophet. Prophet also did marry with 6 years old girl at the age of 55. What wrong my grand father did? I am not talking my grant father marriage with daughter -in-law.

  100. Sanatan Dharma says

    @Anti-Agni
    Please put some light on this

    science of Quran:-

    Sun-set and Sun-rise

    Koran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

    Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring�

    Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

    Serious scientific errors here! Firstly, it is scientifically accepted fact that, the Sun never go down in a muddy spring. Secondly, this seems to presuppose a FLAT Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? A sunrise there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is setting �far away�. It does say, that he reached THE PLACE where the Sun sets and in his second Journey the place where it rises.

  101. Sanatan Dharma says

    Anti-Agni
    ______________so one day you have to delete whole veda__________
    Veda are eternal. Veda can not lost. First of All what is Veda you should know? Veda is not a book but Veda is knowledge. Whatever is eternal truth and applicable in ages past, present, future is Veda.
    Eternal Truth Means
    Being without beginning or end
    Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
    Forever true or changeless

  102. Sanatan Dharma says

    @Anti-Agni
    ______________so one day you have to delete whole veda? kal kare so aaj kar, aaj kare so abbbbbb? hahaha_________

    Where is Niyog in Veda? Please put evidence from Veda. Haaaa you have no evidence. Keep in mind I am not talking about Swami Dayanand but Veda. Evidence from Veda .

  103. anti-agni says

    @false slave, your words “What wrong my grand father did? I am not talking my grant father marriage with daughter -in-law.”
    how filthy dirty hate monger you are a ‘true liar’ characteristic feature to become aryasamaji, you earlier words “मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया ”
    you can read here http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26186 and see your foolishness and filth. now will you have courage to get rajam punishment? hate monger you can see that “And say, “Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart.”” quran 17:81

    these are the signs ofof Allah which He is showing to you in this world and you have a chance to accept islam.

  104. anti-agni says

    @sanatani, your words “Whatever is eternal truth and applicable in ages past, present, future is Veda.
    Eternal Truth Means
    Being without beginning or end
    Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
    Forever true or changeless”
    changeless???? and you are continually changing this changeless? when anyone ask any question regarding veda then you answer from angira’s books ie yajur, atharv etc and whenit goes against you like “ved nindak ko kat dal, cheer daal, jala de” then you say no-no it is not those 4 books? are peopls confused?

    everyone claims that his religion and his religious book is true then should every one “kaat dal, cheer daal” to his book nindak?

    it means everyone is okay then why you boast those four prehistoric mythical books?

  105. anti-agni says

    @sanatani, your words “serious scientific errors here! Firstly, it is scientifically accepted fact that, the Sun never go down in a muddy spring. Secondly, this seems to presuppose a FLAT Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East?”

    can you give me any scintifically fact that sun really sets or “rises”?????? if no then every one is scientifically wrong every news paper, yahoo.com, every one who say or write that sun set at 6.15pm etc

    and if you can give scientific facts of sun rise and set then I will put some light on those “AYAAT” not “verses”.

  106. Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

    @Anti-Agni
    What is the punishment for my grand father for marrying with 8 years old girl at the age of 81. I told to my grand father it is wrong but he replied back there is nothing wrong prophet also did marry with 6 years old girl at the age of 54.

  107. anti-agni says

    @false slave, why are you not talking on yourself?
    ow filthy dirty hate monger you are a ‘true liar’ characteristic feature to become aryasamaji, you earlier words “मैने आपने बेटे की बहू भौ से भी सेक्स किया ”
    you can read here http://agniveer.com/vedic-god/#comment-26186 and see your foolishness and filth. now will you have courage to get rajam punishment? hate monger you can see that “And say, “Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, [by nature], ever bound to depart.”” quran 17:81

    these are the signs ofof Allah which He is showing to you in this world and you have a chance to accept islam.

    your every great legend did not marry but your every god is married can u tell whom your legends were following?
    krishna married to one having one permanent gf and 16008 gopis(my one fellow was saying that still today in vrandavan’s park we hear voices of sex krira so y government has placed police and banned entry of common man)
    brahma, shiva, vishnu, rama, panch pandava every god is married but still top level life is not to marry???

  108. Slave of holy Prophet (SAW) says

    @anti-agni
    Brother I asked about my grand father, What is the punishment for my grand father for marrying with 8 years old girl at the age of 81. I told to my grand father it is wrong but he replied back there is nothing wrong prophet also did marry with 6 years old girl at the age of 54.
    Brother, I Believe Allah will punish Hindus eternally for not getting worship from them. I blieve in ghost, day of Kayamat etc.
    I daily recite Kalama 5 times. I believe Arbi language is world best language. I believe Saudi Arab is world most pious place.
    What Other I need to prove you that I am true Muslim?

  109. hinduagnostic says

    krishna did not want to marry them he married them to protect them and give them honour after he saved them from an evil man they requested it not krishna

  110. anti-agni says

    @false slave, why you are so much interested in your grandfather’s deeds? i think he is not alive if yes then give me his mobile number so that i can investigate what is the matter.
    i have proved that you are true liar so i can’t rely on your words. I think you are result of n-i-y-og so why you are in hurry to prove your ancestors wrong.

    but you yourself have accepted that you have illicit relation with your daughter in law so according to islam you are a major criminal and you have to get rajam(beaten by stone till death)….

    as you have wrtten “What Other I need to prove you that I am true Muslim?” you have to go in any islamic country and get the rajm and ask forgiveness to Allah the most merciful and forgiving.

    regarding your grandfather in islam a liar person do not have credibility to give any statement…so shut your mouth for others and get your punishment…..

  111. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    Just a question:

    How much of Peaceful & scientific Veda Is?

    Can you answer?

  112. says

    Hi dear Sis Maria(Islamic defence)…. Nice to see u back… Last time u didnt answer my question … I know u would have thought about the answer to my question…..

    God is all knowing and not confused, So as per our last discussion I proved ur Allah’s confusion…… Like First he allows incest and then Disallow it…… But u told he has change the above rules…. I know that ur Allah can do anything… But I asked u about the reference from Quran for rule change, as u r Islamic scholar doing islam defence and always want others to give u reference…….So i have great expectation from u.
    If u dont find that then it is proved that Allah is not god at all as God cannot be confused and his rules will be eternal….
    I dont want ur response but I want the answer…. And for god sake Pls be in the topic.

  113. anti-agni says

    @gp. sorry bro to interfere but i want to answer that you peoples believe that,” pehle jawan jawan log duniya mein aaye kiyunki dunuya chalani thi ar ab nahi aarahe” now small babies are coming ….if it is not confusion of vedic ishwar then how could be marriage of bri and sis atthe startibg time of this world. and humanity be confusion of God?

  114. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    your words: better than the bible and quran combined
    Re:
    So do you mean to say there’s is not even a single verse which seems to b unfit into scientific aspects & which seems to b
    un-peaceful or unpleasant? Really?
    If there’s is then please point out, I just wanna see.

  115. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduadnostic:

    your words: “then answer my questions”
    Re: Questions? Which questions are you talking about?

  116. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @GP:

    Here’s proof from Qur’an:
    1) The population of human beings was increased from the single pair of human beings i.e Adam & Eve. It shows that there was no chance except their daughters & sons got married amongst themselves in order to increase the population.
    ==>Qur’an: (4:1) & (7:189)
    2) But now such a relationship is illicit under the Islamic shariyah/laws, as the law has been changed.
    ==>Qur’an:(4:22-23)
    If an omnipotent being i.e God wants such a thing like Allah wants, willn’t u accept?

    U say that Allah allows intercorse between father & daughter. No, no. Thats a white lie. The Qur’an doesn’t say so. But Bible says Prophet Lot did so & Bible isn’t the authority of the Muslims but of the Christians. According to Qur’an Prophet Lot (PBUH) never did such a heinous deed, he was sinless. So now you should take back your words.

  117. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @anti-agni:
    Your words: ” pehle jawan jawan log duniya mein aaye kiyunki dunuya chalani thi ar ab nahi aarahe” now small babies are coming”
    Re:
    Is the above sentence from Vedea? Does this statement tell us that how the homo sapiens i.e human beings evolve on this earth? Doesn’t it seem against the Evolutionary Theory?

  118. hinduagnostic says

    this is what i said based on the verses from sahih bukhari from your replies answer them so how can you blame the women if she doesnt want to have sex with her husband? it her freewill tthe angel should not send down curses because of that and ankur said you are allowed to have four wives he didnt say it says you have to have four wives but you can have up to it is better to divorce and mary another women in such circumstances then have four wives andisnt that an insult how is it the womens fault that she is beautiful didnt allah make her and cant a man be like a devil why is it always the women? and so your saying it good to compare a women to a dog just because she walks pass praying people ? okay what if i tell you your belief in islam are like a fish wouldnt you feel insulted? and ankur didnt say they are dogs he said they comparable to dogs and where does it say it was great honour for them it says they had brotherhood and because of his blind respect for the muhammed he allowed muhammed to marry any of the two it just shows that a men is under women first than second they can choose what they want and how can the prophet say all women are likly to be dweller of hell thats wrong alot of women are faithful to their religion and husband shouldnt they get heaven? and adam and eve are false its impossible all humans came from two people alone and bible isnt authority for muslim but it was word of god and in quran allah says gods word cannot be changed? it also tells muslims to go to previous revaltions to clear doubts if they have any

  119. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @GP:

    Your words: as u r Islamic scholar doing islam defence.
    Re: I’m not scholar but Just learning & defending my faith.

  120. GP says

    Dear Maria,
    1) That is the catch here….. If such relation is illicit then Allah shouldn’t have allow in first place as he is making such condition so that illicit relationship occur……. As i feel u r a Science student, i expect some application of scientific mind.. Adam & Eve are 1st pair and from them only like seeds countless men women born then it is not possible to have future generation without having sex among family members……
    Problem is that Allah is confuse….. So he need to change is rules….
    Your words “If an omnipotent being i.e God wants such a thing like Allah wants, willn’t u accept?”
    Tommorrow, I also start my religion and give such justification that Gods wants it, willn’t u accept?…..So atleast be scientific..

    Your Words “U say that Allah allows intercourse between father & daughter. No, no. Thats a white lie. The Qur’an doesn’t say so”
    Reply: Dear even I know there is no Ayat for this but just refer 4:1 u will see that from 1 pair like a seed many men and women were born…. So my question is how can it be possible without Father and daughter / brother & sis/ mother & sons having sex with each other to future gen to come…… So Allahs allows it and then later he changes it rules……. Here is again one catch….. Rules are changed only when there are some rules laid in the first place….. Show me where the rules are laid so Allah needs to change in 4:22-23…..
    Bible prophet did it then they are right as per Allahs rules as stated above….

    Your word “According to Qur’an Prophet Lot (PBUH) never did such a heinous deed, he was sinless”
    Abhraham is also a prophet consider by muslim … he did have sex with his daugthers…….

    U are engrossed in the ayats so u completely miss the big picture….. I asked u to think logically but u r just showing the ayats…… Only response and no answer….

    At last question question remained unanswered.
    1) Adam and eve are first pair
    2) They had sex and countless people are born from this pair
    3) How it is possible without incurring in incest?
    4) Then why allah changes his rules .. this shows that he is confused….(assumed: allah is knower of all)
    So god can never be confused……. so allah can never be God……

  121. GP says

    Dear Maria,
    1) That is the catch here….. If such relation is illicit then Allah shouldn’t have allow in first place as he is making such condition so that illicit relationship occur……. As i feel u r a Science student, i expect some application of scientific mind.. Adam & Eve are 1st pair and from them only like seeds countless men women born then it is not possible to have future generation without having sex among family members……
    Problem is that Allah is confuse….. So he need to change is rules….
    Your words “If an omnipotent being i.e God wants such a thing like Allah wants, willn’t u accept?”
    Tommorrow, I also start my religion and give such justification that Gods wants it, willn’t u accept?…..So atleast be scientific..

    Your Words “U say that Allah allows intercourse between father & daughter. No, no. Thats a white lie. The Qur’an doesn’t say so”
    Reply: Dear even I know there is no Ayat for this but just refer 4:1 u will see that from 1 pair like a seed many men and women were born…. So my question is how can it be possible without Father and daughter / brother & sis/ mother & sons having sex with each other to future gen to come…… So Allahs allows it and then later he changes it rules……. Here is again one catch….. Rules are changed only when there are some rules laid in the first place….. Show me where the rules are laid so Allah needs to change in 4:22-23…..
    Bible prophet did it then they are right as per Allahs rules as stated above….

    Your word “According to Qur’an Prophet Lot (PBUH) never did such a heinous deed, he was sinless”
    Abhraham is also a prophet consider by muslim … he did have sex with his daugthers…….

    U are engrossed in the ayats so u completely miss the big picture….. I asked u to think logically but u r just showing the ayats…… Only response and no answer….

    At last question question remained unanswered.
    1) Adam and eve are first pair
    2) They had sex and countless people are born from this pair
    3) How it is possible without incurring in incest?
    4) Then why allah changes his rules .. this shows that he is confused….(assumed: allah is knower of all)
    So god can never be confused……. so allah can never be God…

  122. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @anti-agni:
    Your words: no one can read whole veda because they dont know what is veda, those four books are not veda but real knowledge is veda, truth is veda and I dont who will decide what is truth ie veda?
    Re:
    Don’t get completely. Rephrase again.

  123. Ankur says

    @anti-agni very nice. you know i have never seen a learned man like you. . why don’t you buy the yajurveda from the store and then see what is in it.. rather than clinging one odd sentence.

  124. anti-agni says

    @Maria , you can see this coward agniveer has deleted all my comments whichc can unveil. their contradiction.

    one aryasamaji fellow was explaining that in ved nindak ko kat dal… ved is not those prehistoric mythological books but it is true knowledge. and the same time mp arya explained concept of god in veda and. he used those four books….see on YouTube mp arya vs tariq Abdullah .

    “Eik jhoot ko chupane k liye 100 jhoot bolne parte hn”

  125. hinduagnostic says

    sorry i meant in my opinion it is better to divorce and mary another women in such circumstances than have four wives and sorry it doesnt say marry it just says you can choose which of the two women you want.

  126. hinduagnostic says

    your comment? agniveer doesnt review his comments before he shows them to public all comments are here and let me tell you the truth these are possibilities either the sikh/vedic god is the truth, or there is deist or panthiest god or finally there is no god other than that is all lies to control people.

  127. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @hinduagnostic:

    I have already posted 6 postings on this subject (This is the 7th one) but still you’re ” NOT PAYING ATTENTION “.

    You’re ” NOT PAYING ATTENTION ” to what I’m asking 4.

    So now ” PAY ATTENTION “.

    “PAY ATTENTION ” I asked: Does Veda contain such verses which seem to be unfitted into scientific aspects & seem to be inhuman? ” Yes ” Or ” No “.
    { Just say ” Yes” Or “No ” Then I’ll see myself (when read Veda myself) how much of truthful Vedantists you are }

    ” PAY ATTENTION ” & answer it – Answer it Or otherwise kindly shut up.

  128. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @ Agniveer:

    Brother,
    Without sounding rude or without being offensive I wanna tell you something:
    You have deleted our comments, I think you’re a scholar & preacher of Vedas.
    So If I was going in the wrong i.e against your Veda then you should tell me that I was wrong & should tell me what does Veda really say. I can expect this thing at least from the one who is a Scholar & a preacher as well ( like you are ), cannot I?
    I hope you know how to debate , don’t you?
    So Instead of hiding like a ” coward ” behind the ” delete button ” tell me what does Veda really say. Thanks!
    We will see.

  129. hinduagnostic says

    why dont you first this this is what i said based on the verses from sahih bukhari from your replies answer them so how can you blame the women if she doesnt want to have sex with her husband? it her freewill tthe angel should not send down curses because of that and ankur said you are allowed to have four wives he didnt say it says you have to have four wives but you can have up to it is better to divorce and mary another women in such circumstances then have four wives andisnt that an insult how is it the womens fault that she is beautiful didnt allah make her and cant a man be like a devil why is it always the women? and so your saying it good to compare a women to a dog just because she walks pass praying people ? okay what if i tell you your belief in islam are like a fish wouldnt you feel insulted? and ankur didnt say they are dogs he said they comparable to dogs and where does it say it was great honour for them it says they had brotherhood and because of his blind respect for the muhammed he allowed muhammed to marry any of the two it just shows that a men is under women first than second they can choose what they want and how can the prophet say all women are likly to be dweller of hell thats wrong alot of women are faithful to their religion and husband shouldnt they get heaven? and adam and eve are false its impossible all humans came from two people alone and bible isnt authority for muslim but it was word of god and in quran allah says gods word cannot be changed? it also tells muslims to go to previous revaltions to clear doubts if they have any

  130. anti-agni says

    @gp-another hate monger aryasamaji devil, you start repeating same questions like parrot even answered so many times. see your bro hinduagnostic is confused that either sikh god or hindu or many gods or everything is god is tru or there is no god. you ppls are confused , just ask any muslim and see the condidence when reply regarding God.

    you have nott answered that ishwara was confused or is confused? Because at inception of humanity on this earth he has send ‘jawan-jawan’ peoples now he is sending small small babies?

    Tell me do you say incest to the marriage? The progeny of bharadwaj rishi is called bharadwaj and today bharadwaj marry wid bharadwaj . are they not bro. and sissy because of one and same forefather? Y it is not incest today? How so many bharadwajs come into exisance today?

  131. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @GP:

    — Adam & Eve Issue:
    I have answered already. So don’t try to flog a dead horse. It’s futile for you.
    ———————————-
    Your words: Tommorrow, I also start my religion and give such justification that Gods wants it, willn’t u accept?
    Re:
    If we posed any question to you people in response you turn a DEAF ear, it seems you are very much scared so you don’t like to talk about Veda – So how can I accept?
    ————————————-
    Your words: even I know there is no Ayat for this (Relation between father & daughter)
    Re:
    Can I consider I’m not addressing to a child?
    If I say your Vedic God allow such a thing, then you ask me 4 proof & I say there’s no such a verse which say father & daughter should not do so, would not be it look irrational? Definitely Yes – SO STOP Repeating a FISHY STORY – PLEASE
    —————————————-
    Your Words: how can it be possible without Father and daughter / brother & sis/ mother & sons having sex with each other to future gen to come…… So Allahs allows it and then later he changes it rules.
    Re:
    AVOID OFF too much of slang brother PLEASE. Stop telling LIES & LIES. Please.
    ——————————————————–
    Your words: Abhraham is also a prophet consider by muslim … he did have sex with his daugthers.
    Re:
    Now YOUR comments have got on my nerves. YOU have crossed all the limits of telling LIES. Come on brother this thing (Telling Lies) Is not allowed as per your Scripture as well – Give me proof from ISLAMIC SCRIPTURE 4 this – without spinning – HURRY UP! Verse no / Chap. no Or otherwise please Be OFF.

  132. Angira says

    @Maria (IslamaicTaqiyayist) (Taqiya-Lie permitted for Muslims in Quran for converting non Muslims Q: 66:2 & many more)
    Allah of Quran orders Muslim males to perform must do sex with slave girls. Quran 4:24 And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess…
    Dear Sophisticated Taqiyayist, Adam-Eve theory is already proven joke & top fiction by modern science as it is impossible event that humanity would have born from single pair of males & females since we can see various human races of different color black, white, chinese, indo-aryan, mongol etc. Go to any biologist they will reply you that all these people cant have same father & mother , there is different set of DNA structure in each of ancestors of these races. so at time of human inception there would have been various human races both males & females not like one male & female as what mythological Adam-Eve story says.
    By the way, you dont have to worry about defending that as it is job of Biblical scholar, Author of Quran has just copied it from bible like many other fictions. By the way Adam-eve theory if represented as historical point of view then only found in full context in Bible in Genesis, which gives absurd history that the garden in which Adam & even were trolling was near Genesis 2:14 And the name of the third river is Tigris, which goes to the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. So according to absurd Abrahmic religions god created first Tigres river of Mesopotamia which is wrong as first rivers were in India, china, pakistan etc. from mountain of Himalaya the oldest one on the earth.
    Quran just copied it so be relax , it is not your responsibility to defend that Adam-eve fiction , let some Evangelist come to defend it.

  133. Jay says

    There is incest in the Bible and the Koran is just the Arab pagan’s distorted version of the Torah and Bible mixed with Arab paganism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_in_the_Bible

    “Specific incestuous relationships in the Bible

    In Genesis 9:20-27, Ham saw his father Noah’s nakedness. The Talmud suggests that Ham may have sodomized Noah (Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 70a). In more recent times, some scholars have suggested that Ham may have had intercourse with his father’s wife.[20]

    Abraham’s brother Nahor married his niece Milcah, the daughter of his other brother Haran.[21]

    In Genesis 19:30-38, living in an isolated area after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot’s two daughters conspired to inebriate and seduce their father due to the lack of available partners. Because of intoxication, Lot “perceived not” when his firstborn, and the following night his younger daughter, lay with him. (Genesis 19:32-35) The two children born were directly Lot’s sons and indirectly his grandsons, being his daughters’ sons. Likewise, their sons were also their half-brothers, having the same father.

    In one of the tales of a wife confused for a sister, Abraham admitted that his wife Sarah is also his half-sister, on his father’s side.[2] However, in the rabbinic literature, Sarah is considered Abraham’s niece (the daughter of his brother, Haran).[citation needed]

    Abraham’s son Isaac married Rebekah, his first cousin once removed, the granddaughter of his father’s brother Nahor and niece Milcah.[22] Isaac and Rebekah’s firstborn son Esau married his cousin Mahalah, daughter of his father’s brother Ishmael,[23] while their second son Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel, daughters of his mother’s brother Laban.[24] Marriage of cousins was not forbidden in biblical law.

    In Genesis 35:22, Jacob’s firstborn son Reuben committed incest by sleeping with his father’s concubine Bilhah.

    In Genesis 38, Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, mistook his daughter-in-law Tamar for a prostitute while she was veiled, and had sex with her.[25]

    The biblical character Amram married his paternal aunt, Jochebed, the mother of Miriam, Aaron and Moses.[26]

    In the book of 2nd Samuel, Amnon, King David’s eldest son and heir to the throne, raped his half-sister Tamar; Tamar’s brother, Absalom, learned of the incident and, two years later, ordered his servants to have Amnon killed.[27] It is noteworthy that when pleading in vain with Amnon, Tamar said, “Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee”.[28] This would imply that – in spite of the prohibition set out elsewhere in the Bible – the marriage of siblings (at least those of different mothers, as Amnon and Tamar were) could be acceptable in the society in which the story was written.[citation needed]”

  134. GP says

    Maria ji,
    U r giving some quranic ref doesnt mean ur answering the question …u r just responding…….
    Quran is plagiarized from the jewish mythology which is very difficult for u to digest…. Incest is all over in those Abhramic scriptures…

    Problem is that u dont want to see the clear contradiction in the Allahs law and which got on ur brain nerves…. cant help it.
    Adam & eve story itself is bogus but u guys beleive it to be true. I repeat the question again and again so that it helps u to open ur brain nerves which is blocked by Quran and think rationally………. BY Adam and Eve Allahs allow Incest and then why after wards allah disallow it as illicit? Does it not mean allah is confused ? He should have created many such pair so that he no need to change the rule..This means Allah is fool, he dont even understand this basic things ….
    God cannot be confused so Allah can never be god….
    Your words “If I say your Vedic God allow such a thing, then you ask me 4 proof & I say there’s no such a verse which say father & daughter should not do so, would not be it look irrational? Definitely Yes – SO STOP Repeating a FISHY STORY – PLEASE”
    Re: Dear if u think logically and answer me.. if Adam and Eve assumption is true then how can future gen will born without incest?…. This doesnt need verses, if we think rationally we can find that if Allah created Adam and eve.From them like a seed future gen born then it cannot be possible without indulging in incest…..

  135. Jay says

    Adam and Eve are Middle Eastern Jewish people’s religious story to explain how humans came to be. Both Christianity and Islam are derivatives of Judaism. You can see religious stories from people all over the world to explain how humans came to be. The Jews story of Adam and Eve is one people’s story.

  136. anti-agni says

    @angina -filthy. aryasamaji. is this your basis of your believe ? If a group of scientists do some research and claim something then your whole failth start shaking? Researches are going on and we believe thay islam can nevrer be proved wrong.

    for your kind information scientists have proved that humanity is maximum 10-20thousand years old before this there animals and they support theteself with evolution theory and you claim that veda is one million and some thousand years old and it is oldest and for whole humanity. if scientists are right then your claim is wrong and if thete are different races then angiras four book can’t be for whole humanity. so what happend? Your whole faith is shaking?according to Quran your faith is like spiders web , can’t stand in slightest resistence.

    you claim that ceda is so and so old is like old villagers talk in evening after doing hard work and small children thout that it is true.

  137. Maria (IslamicDefence) says

    @Angira:

    Your words: By the way, you don’t have to worry about defending that as it is job of Biblical scholar.
    Re:
    I WILL defend come what may.
    ———————————
    Your words: Author of Quran has just copied it from bible like many other fictions.
    Re:
    Just a HOAX .

    Proud to be a MUSLIMAH – Thank you My Allah 4 such a GREAT GREAT Deen.

  138. anti-agni says

    @jay-another hate monger aryasamaji fooled by moolshankar in the name of angiras book. you have copy pasted completely from wicki you can delete citation needed. but. your foolishness not allowed to do so.

    What you have given is fron bible which is corrupted version of injeel like veda. how dare you to compare it with Quran ? Do you know quran has challenges to prove that it is man made. you can see many debates of sheikh Ahmed deedat or dr. jamal badawi then try to refute him.

  139. Jay says

    Struck a sensitive nerve in you though my comment had nothing to do with you but merely pointed out that there is incest in Abrahamic scriptures and that is not a secret. NOT A SECRET, and for that you say it is hate mongering? How foolish. Yeah it is from Wikipedia and if you look at my comment I gave the exact weblink to the paragraph. It is your foolishness to miss that I was open from the start of where it came from when I provided the link, and to miss that I put the information in quotes so people know it is an excerpt and not my own words.

    Ad-hominem attacks, how pathetic. I have nothing to do with aryasamaji, have no idea who moolshankar is or what the angiras book you are talking about. I can compare any thing I want to the Koran, but how interesting that you get so upset that it were earlier Abrahamic scriptures -Abrahamic scriptures!- that got you hot and bothered. That is what bothers you? Ha! Ridiculous. Incest is openly documented in Abrahamic religious scriptures, get over it.

    The Arab pagan Mohammed wanted to be the heir of the Jewish faiths, the last prophet of the Jewish faiths. Naturally he would want to promote his version of Jewish scriptures as the right one. But how stupid to think that an Arab pagan is better at being Jewish than the real ethnic Middle Eastern Jews.

  140. Angira says

    Anti-Human Mawali, Bipolar Buddhist ( Religion founded by The foremost Pork Eater from India), There is not a single mantra of Veda which can be even accused for indicating something which violates scientific laws. Rather, entire modern science & ancient science derived from Vedas. Vedas is science of science, it is perfect meta physics. We always give open challange to kind of person like you to bring anything from Vedas which your dirty & dumb intellect thinks against science (Of course in stupid Buddhism there is asinine concept pf Shunyata or emptiness so they dont believe that soul can direct intellect & can make it pure(Sumati) with guidance from Ishwar). Thankfully i don’t belong to senseless Buddhism who copied everything from Upanishads but plagiarized & passed it as his own, fortunately i belong to religion of all religions–Hinduism.
    You dumb ape (as you support yourself evolution theory), Vedas is imbibed in hearts of all us humans, it is just matter of getting read of ignorance & paying attention to conscience & you have already implemented Ved mantra. Veda is sanatan, it is timeless, eternal, they were even in dissolution, in beginning of creation or even in time of dinosaurs, as it is knowledge of metaphysics (Brahm Jyan) which your failed & coward leader Buddha could not achieve.
    I dont know from where you brought that million year old claim because at least a knowledgeable Hindu never speaks that as He knows this Mantra of Veda & hence its eternal nature
    YajurVeda 34:5
    “May, O Great God, Wises of the wise, through Thy grace, my mind – which like the hub of a wheel into which all the spokes are inserted, is the repository of the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, The Sama Veda and also the Atharva Veda, the mind in which Omniscient, Omnipresent conscious Being – the Witness of all – makes Himself known – be freed from all ignorance and be endowed with the love of knowledge.”

  141. anti-agni says

    @jay. i am amazed to see that whenever asked to any hatemonger agniveer anti Islamic visitor he rejects aryasamaj.

    the admin of thus site rejects wicki claiming that anyone can change. at wicki so it is not authentic otherwise we have a lot of things to paste from wicki.

    instead of hollow claim and hate mongering it will be better for viewers if you give comparison from bibile and quran….so that we can see how much similarity is there .

    for your kind information islam believe that hazrat isa was one pf the mightiest messanger of Allah and he hss been given injeel not bible and present bible is corrupted version.

  142. anti-agni says

    @angina -hate monger aryasamaji, my first question is what is veda? Are those prehistoric mythological books of angira are veda?

    Secondly i have earlier said thad aryasamaji claim that veda are one million and few thousands year old and scientists proved that humans are only 10-20 thousands years old and before this animals reside here and human evolve from animal through evolution process. What is your opinion? Y are u skipping this point?
    Science claim that there is no aatma in human body and so next yoni but whole veda revolve around aatma and parmatma so veda are against science.

    first answer above questions then ill give you next questions .

  143. Angira says

    @Anti Human Cannibal Eater, I already answered your first childish question & gave you evidence by quoting Ved mantra itself that how Veda is timeless, though i cant take responsibility of every arya samaji.
    Second thing, about Hinduism stance on Evolution Theory, Hinduism answers why we came on earth not how!
    Hinduism is not senseless & mythological religion like ugly Abrahmic religion Judaism which introduced Adam-Eve fiction. Of course only Judaism is Abrahmic religion , the rest of two religions(Christianity & Islam) have plagiarized materials & scriptures of Judaism in order to suit their agenda.
    If suppose god had to teach in Veda how humans came on earth then he would have answered all these much questions, Inception began at which location, in which numbers or what weight,height, color, body temperatture, blood group, body pressure that first generation of humans possessed.It would be craziness for god to make things these complex yet abrahmic religions’ theology go in this direction. While Hinduism teaches why humans came on earth , how they are given environment & platform according to their past actions (KArma), how they can achieve prosperity in this life by conducting noble yajna, how they can achieve mokhsa,
    About science claiming that there is not atma in body. Yes they do claim that because when they refer to soul they refer to senseless & anti-scientific nature of soul described in ISlam (Ruha) , christianity who says that soul does not exist in animals etc. They did not take care of analyzing what is aatma specified in Hindu sacred texts? Aatma is not same as soul defined in Abrahmic scriptures. Aatama is inquistor & he is different & apart from these materialistic world so obviously it can not be captured in M.R.I. C..T. scan machines.that is why they do not believe. Yet psychological science believes in reincarnation which is not possible without aatma, but stupid Buddha made anti-scientific statement years ago.

  144. hinduagnostic says

    actually science says modern humans are 200,000 years old so your wrong science cant disprove god or soul or anything spirtual but they can disapprove adam and eve and other stories mentioned in bible and quran unlike the quran and bible the knowledge of vedas are eternal

  145. Angira says

    Maria(IslamicTaqiyayist)–the intellectual Jihadi sucide bomber,
    What about my comment on 4:24 , where Moon god Allah of unique “Deen” allowed (sorry ordered) muslim males to perform must do sex with slave girls.
    Quran did plagiarize Adam-Eve theory from Torah, you may refuse to accept that as it destroys religion of Islam from its very base.Because it is depicted in incomplete way in Quran while Historical evidences can only be accepted by referring to Torah of Jewish people which is far more archaic than what modified fiction came in 610 A.D.

  146. Angira says

    Anti-Human Moreover, if soul does not exist in body of beings then Buddha is already wrong as he made this statement in Sutta Nipat–the authentic & archaic narratives of Buddha“Attained the steadfast Soul, their mind/will (citta) is calm; they’re cleansed of the entire world, taintless they have become Brahman” [SN 3.83]
    Awaiting on your comment & replies on “Whether Buddha was scientifically accurate or not!!!”

  147. Jay says

    @Angira “Of course only Judaism is Abrahmic religion , the rest of two religions(Christianity & Islam) have plagiarized materials & scriptures of Judaism in order to suit their agenda.”

    To be fair. Christianity is derived from Judaism but it did not alter the original Jewish scriptures. They left the Torah untouched and believe the Jewish scriptures as it was written by the Jews. They did not alter the Torah. The Bible is made of two parts the Jewish Torah (or as Christians call it the Old Testament), and then the New Testament which has all the Jesus scriptures.

    Islam on the other hand you see the distortion and alteration of the Torah (old Testament) and New Testament passed off as the more correct version aka Koran. That is a key difference between Christianity and Islam. In that way Christianity is more in sync with Judaism. Christianity merely added their scriptures on to the unaltered original Jewish scriptures and called the combination of scriptures the Bible. While the Arab pagan Mohammed altered and reworked both the original Jewish scriptures of the REAL Jews and the additional scriptures of Jesus and added the Arab pagan Mohammed’s stuff. This is their Koran and they pass the Koran off as the best version of the Torah/Bible. They believe they are better at being Jewish following an Arab pagan and that Arab pagan’s distorted version of Jewish scriptures, than the REAL Middle Eastern ethnic Jews following their own Jewish people’s Jewish scriptures.

  148. anti-agni says

    @angira, so you hv accepted that science does not believe in soul but you believe and ur veda believe ? What a double standard boss…..it is ur arrogance which never allow u to see anything .
    if science is saying that there was not single pair at starting time and Quran claiming adam and hawwa then quran is wrong and if science is saying that no sou and veda is saying soul is present then veda is right…amazing. veda is science of science ? Why are you degrading Indians?
    Another claim that if veda has to tell you evolution or first human then colour weight every minute detail would be there…but dear you don’t knw how much old veda? Your aryasamji bro claiming one million and several thousand years but you are rejecting? Why detail is not there?

  149. Angira says

    Dear Brother Agni, Please be specific about your faith, who you are then it would be interesting for both of us to discuss things! You did not respond about whether buddha was scientifically accurate or not as Buddha himself confirmed the existence of soul in numerous suttas, but contrary to this western Buddhism which is presented as Atheist religion hide this truth from inquisitors for their markets in order to attract scientist & atheist,materialistic world. Please read this article if you are really interested in righteous debate http://agniveer.com/understanding-self-hinduism/ — all scientific claims are examined & understood in its true definition in this article, which summarizes that Nervous system definitely plays role in shaping human behavior but yet the one who is reasoning this all is Atma which is non-Physical being & i already told you i dont take responsibility of every arya samaji, i have even given you mantra which specifies timeless nature of Veda. For falsehood of Quran & its fragile nature when it comes to science, i can give you hundreds of reference not only Adam-Eve theory! Again, Hinduism emphasizes in why we come on earth than how we came!

  150. hinduagnostic says

    first of all vedas doesnt not say when the universe was created or when human came but if you read later puranas they say the universe is billions of years of old and there above 8 million different species which is what science is now saying as for the soul science cant prove weather or not soul exists for sure but as for adam and eve there is enough evidence to say it never happen to say all humans came from two pairs is impossible

  151. Jay says

    It is purely your opinion that my pointing out that there are incest verses in the Abrahamic scriptures is hate mongering. How silly. Point out what is obviously there in Abrahamic scriptures is not hate mongering just because YOU don’t like what is there written in them. Your problem is not with me who points out what is NOT A SECRET and openly written in Abrahamic scriptures, your problem is with those Abrahamic scriptures that document what you don’t feel comfortable with.

    It is a foolish ad hominem attack to accuse anyone who says something you do not like of being arya samaj as if that is a bad thing. That is a silly modus operandi of yours. Grow up. It is a pathetic tactic. I say I have nothing to do with Arya samaj because I actually do not have anything to do with arya samaj. Plain simple fact. Your pathetic accusation is 100% false. Don’t be surprised that I correct it.

    Get the abbreviated spelling of Wikipedia correct. The abbreviation is not wicki. There is no c in it. It is abbreviated as Wiki. Things can be altered in Wikipedia but you can verify these Biblical instances with any Bible, so no Wiki is not different in this case with what is found in Abrahamic scriptures and the Wiki quote is valid.

    All Islam is is an Arab pagan’s version of Judaism and its derivative Christianity. Islam came thousands of years later after Judaism and centuries later after Christianity, and the Arab pagan Mohammed who wanted for some odd reason to be the prophet of the Jews, re-wrote earlier Abrahamic scriptures to suit the Arab pagan Mohammed’s needs. Of course this johnny come lately, Arab pagan Mohammed, would promote his version of Abrahamic scriptures as correct, better that the original Jewish scriptures of the REAL Jews. He is not going to go around and say his version is not as accurate as the original Jewish scriptures. Who would follow him then? People might as well convert to the real deal and become Jewish. Mohammed was a Jew wanna be, and you followers of the Arab pagan Mohammed think you are better at being Jewish than the real Jews (seriously!), and think the Arab pagan’s version of Jewish scriptures is better than the actual Jewish scriptures. Your whole religion is about being better at being Jewish than the REAL ethnic Middle Eastern Jews. But you are not.

  152. anti-agni says

    @angira, why are you interested in my faith? you should answer from your side. it is the main game of aryasamajis that they believe in same thing but criticize others. point is this that veda claims that human has soul and science is denying it then you should accept science not veda. if quran is saying something and science is saying another thing then you ppls start degrading Islam and become einstns follower and if science goes against veda then you have no problem?

    i dont know what do you mean by veda is eternal? just answer me how much years before angira was present on this earth when he received eternal knowledge of veda? he was one million and several thousand years before or not? your fellow aryasamaji is not right then who is right? tell me what science tell us about the age of humanity? can you prove change of yoni from science?

    if veda has nothing to do who came first on earth then who will answer it? veda is interested in yoni change then why science rejects it?
    all your fragile allegations have been thoroughly refuted but instead of charging more allegations on any other book first answer about your veda.

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