Frequently asked questions on VEDAS
If you have any further questions, kindly post it in the Ask Agniveer section of the site.

Question: What is meant by the word VEDA? Answer:
The meaning of the word ‘VEDA’ is knowledge. It is derived from the root ‘vid’ which means ‘to know’. By VEDA we imply the eternal knowledge of the Omnipresent and Omniscient God which is provided to humans at beginning of human creation.

Question: Do you mean VEDAS are some books?
Answer:
VEDAS represent the eternal knowledge. But if you convert them into auditory senses, they represents certain sounds. When you convert them into visual sense, they represent certain mantras that can be compiled in form of books.As an analogy, when a person has to be represented through hearing, his voice is his representation. And if he has to be represented in a 2D image, his photograph is an accurate representation. Same is the case of VEDAS. They are the eternal knowledge and if we have to represent them as per the senses that humans can perceive, they turn into 4 Ved Samhitas.

Question: What are these 4 VEDA Samhitas?
Answer:
These are compilation of mantras divided into 4 parts namely Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda and Atharva Veda.

Question: What are mantras? How are they different from Shlokas of Sanskrit?
Answer:
The Hymns or stanzas of VEDAS are called Mantras. The hymns of other Sanskrit texts are Shlokas. The Mantras are unchangeable not only in content but even pronunciation.Thus while common persons may speak VEDIC Mantras without specific focus on pronunciation, each mantra has a specific method of pronunciation for each syllable in it. These are normally indicated by certain lines and symbols over and under Vedic Mantras.

Question: What is the purpose of so much emphasis on pronunciation?
Answer:
1. This has helped preserve VEDAS in exactly the same form as they first came.2. The meaning of the Mantra changes as per change in pronunciation. This is like, what we do in real life also. The same words said in two different tones may mean completely opposite.3. All VEDIC Mantras have several meanings. Further, the depth of meaning for each Mantra is also virtually infinite. To a beginner, certain meaning of a Mantra would be more obvious. But if she focuses on pronunciation pattern as well, further depths and news insights are revealed.

Question: What was the need for VEDAS?
Answer:
God has provided us all a capability to analyze and reach truth=bliss. However the same is blurred by ignorance. Please read the FAQ on Theory of Karmafor more on this.Thus, typically, it is impossible for humans to learn everything without being taught. We all are trained since birth for a significant period of time, and only then are we able to use our analytical faculties to learn more. And even then, most of the learning we do is through training. Analytical ability only acts as a tool to make it more efficient.Similarly, it would have been impossible for humans to make so much of progress without any training support. Even a simple faculty like language, which forms the foundation of human civilization is impossible to learn without training.The supporters of early-man theory are still at a loss to explain the emergence of language and the fact that language of earlier times were much more complex than those known today. Thus VEDAS were provided as an operating manual to live in this world. It contains the seed knowledge for all fields and sufficient material to start the process of civilization. Without this, human civilization would have been impossible.

Question: How were the VEDAS revealed?
Answer:
Tradition says that the VEDAS were first revealed in heart of 4 Rishis or seers during inception of the civilization. These were having the best traits as per previous Karma or actions, and most eligible to understand the expain this knowledge. The knowledge of VEDAS revealed from them in a manner similar to way inspiration for doing noble things emerge in hearts of noble men.Traditions say that Agni received Rig Veda, Vayu – Yajur Veda, Aditya – Sama Veda and Angira – Atharva Veda. Then these 4 Rishis trained other people on basis of these Vedas.The scholars among these other people contemplated on specific mantras of Vedas and were called Rishis because they researched into meanings of these Mantras which were useful for entire humanity then. Civilization and knowledge flourished henceforth.

Question: How did the Rishis understand the language of VEDAS?
Answer:
The VEDAS were first revealed to the Rishis as complete package – meaning as well as mantras and their pronunciation. These appear different to us because of our limited knowledge.But in state of perfection, language, knowledge and pronunciation no more remain different but become one and same.A simile would be when the child utters ‘Maa’ to call its mother. The language, meaning and pronunciation of ‘Ma’ all together mean the same ‘Mother’ along with all the emotions it implies.Similarly, when mind is complete devoid of all negative traits and fluctuations, and focused on God, the language, pronunciation and meaning of God’s knowledge all are felt as one integrated package. The 4 Rishis who were inspired with VEDAS had such exalted state. Now from the knowledge and pronunciation, they developed the first rules of the language through which they trained others. Thus language also has its origin in the VEDAS? From

Question: Why were these 4 Rishis chosen for accepting the VEDAS?
Answer:
Refer to Concept of God and Theory of Karma. Creation and destruction continue in beginning-less and unending cycles. Thus whenever a new creation happens, the souls who are best equipped to accept and propagate this knowledge are chosen to be among the first humans in the civilization.

Question: But initially only Adam and Eve came. Now you talk of 4 Rishis?
Answer:
Adam-Eve theory is a good story for entertainment of children. That has no rational basis except showing fear of Hell and lure of Heaven.As per Vedic belief, right from initiation of creation of the universe up to inception of humans, changes happened gradually as per definite laws of Ishwar. Scientists have discovered many of these aspects recently. And when creation was over, humans emerged not as a couple, but in multiple.The first humans are supposed to have emerged as youths and neither children nor old ones. No intermediate species between humans and next-intelligent species are found in any form. So evolution of humans from apes or ape-likes is ruled out. Even the current theories of ‘apes are our ancestors’ are too vague and inconclusive, and full of big unexplainable gaps.The alternative model is that multiple humans emerged from earth, with different genetic makeup, without sexual reproduction. Modern science also does ot rule out possibility of this happening. These young humans had basic knowledge of survival just as animals have. And then 4 among them got the knowledge and trained others. Because they had different genetic makeup, they could then devise rules of inter-marrying through something similar to Gotra system which is prevalent even till today. This ensures that marriage between close relatives do not happen and hence prevent genetic disorders. VEDAS have specific mantras to prohibit such marriages.

Question: Are the VEDAS available today? How do we know they are authentic? Even Bible and Quran are not proven to be completely authentic.
Answer:
The 4 VEDAS are available to us exactly in same way, as it was presented first. The God, who devised the universe to help us reach ultimate bliss and support us in all ways possible, ensured that VEDAS are never lost from humanity.The mechanism was through memorizing 10 different ways of reciting VEDIC mantras in different permutations. They are called ‘Paatha Vidhi’. Thus different words of the mantra would be spoken in different orders. The different Paatha of VEDAS were memorized by different humans. They then taught these Paatha Vidhi to next generation. Whenever a doubt would come, that would be sorted out by checking out the different Paatha pronuciations. This way it was ensured that not even a syllable could be altered. Thus, if you even change a high pitch to low pitch, that would be caught.Later, these VEDAS were written down. But oral traditions continued and still remain existent in India. And while Northern India was under a lot of turmoil in history due to invasions, South India was relatively peaceful. And hence the tradition continued uninterrupted.No other book had such a rigorous way of protection. And hence no other book in world can claim such authenticity. Even the skeptic Western indologists who explored VEDAS to propagate Christianity, could not help admitting this to be a great wonder of human civilization. Max Muller was one such researcher who commented thus. Today, the 4 VEDAS are available as print format.

Question: How can a layman understand VEDAS? Should we read translation available?
Answer:
To read VEDAS, one needs to master the language of VEDAS – Sanskrit. In its absence, one can study the translations. However study of translations without a framework would be of little help. Further the translations by western scholars are to be rejected outrightly.To understand VEDAS, not only language is necessary, one needs to also master certain other subjects. But even more important is an analytical bent of mind and a Yogic approach. What is meant by Yogic approach is mastery over senses and mind.Since the concepts of VEDAS are very subtle, a disturbed mind or a mind indulged in petty issues and enjoyments of the world can make neither head or tail out of it.This is same as we would say that it is useless for an uneducated drunkard to try to read Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. Thus, simultaneous practice of mind discipline and an analytical attitude are necessary to start exploring the VEDAS. Beyond that, availability of an expert teacher is extremely useful. But in absence of that as well, one can start with study of Satyarth Prakash (LIght of Truth) and Introduction to Vedas by Swami Dayanand Saraswati to understand the basic framework. In today’s context, they would be very critical to start exploration of VEDAS. However, as said earlier, these too should be read with a Yogic and analytical bent of mind. This is not very difficult or esoteric. It simply means shutting oneself off from distractions and studying with open-minded focus – the way we study any serious subject.

Question: VEDAS were good for beginning of civlization. But why we need them today?
Answer:
Definitely, VEDAS were indispensable during beginning of human civilization. All the great ideals that we all believe in today, and good aspects of all the cultures, all have source in Vedas. But unfortunately, we lost track of the source in this long journey. Thus we often get distracted and get ourselves in trouble.VEDAS serve as essential guide to do this course-correction. in absence of VEDAS, we have divided ourselves into so many cults, religions, groups, castes, races etc and keep fighting. In name of progress, we have ruined the environment. We try to adjust objectivity with irrationality and keep failing miserably.On one hand, we would agree that we should reject wrong and false. But we still agree to propagation of smoking which is proven injurious for smoker, others and environment. Modern Science is still fighting with Spiritualism because it assumes that God is what Bible or Quran tell us. And we try to squeeze a middle path which is impossible.A typical human is confused over what this life is and what is its direction. it fears death but has no solution. In confusion, it keeps wasting time and escaping from this fear through nonsense activities..and then dies. VEDAS have solutions to these problems and provide tips on making our individual, social and global life more blissful. Today we need VEDAS for same reason that a doctor refers back to medical text books throughout his life.

Question: What do the 4 Vedas contain?
Answer:
Rig Vedas focuses on knowledge of all material and spiritual objects. Yajur Veda deals mainly with recommended actions for humans. Sama Veda deals with devotion and contemplation and Atharva Veda contains applications deriving essence from all three Vedas and their themes (knowledge, action and contemplation)

Question: Why do VEDAS contain worship of so many Gods?
Answer:
This is a popular myth without any basis. VEDAS unequivocally declare that there is only one God – Ishwar and He is unparalleled.It calls this Omnipotent God through various adjectives. People without an unbiased Yogic disposition took these names as that of different Gods.But several mantras of VEDAS clarify this and state that He is One and Only one. For example Rig Veda 6.45.13, Atharva Veda 2.21, Rig Veda, 1.164.46, Rig Veda 10.114.5, Rig Veda 10.82.3 etc

Question: Then what about the 33 crore Gods of Hinduism?
Answer:
The exact term is 33 Koti Devata which people translate into 33 crore Gods.Now let us understand that Koti also means ‘type’. And in VEDAS, 33 Devatas are indeed referred but comprehensively summarized in Shatpath Brahman, which is a commentary on VEDAS.Now Devata does not mean Ishwar or Omnipotent God. It originates from root ‘Divu’ and refers to anything that benefits us. It has same origin as that of word ‘Daan’ which means charity. There are several other meanings of ‘Divu’ like conquer, pursuit, brilliancy, praise, knowledge, motion etc.In the parlance of 33 Koti Devata, they refer to 33 non-living objects which benefit us namely: 8 Vasus – Fire, Earth, Air, Sky, Super-Terrestrial Space, Sun, Moon, Stars, Ten Life Forces, Soul, and 12 Months. Further VEDAS proclaim in 10.121 that Ishwar/God provides us with all Devatas

Question: If I am a good person, but do not study VEDAS, what is the loss?
Answer:
If you are a good person, you will achieve higher levels of Bliss as per your Karma/Actions/Thoughts. But there would be a ceiling due to limited knowledge. Because higher bliss demands further knowledge.This is similar to study of medicines. One can explore a lot about health science through her own discovery and analysis. But to master further, she will need to study the medical text books and do the necessary laboratory work.Often we assume that spiritual knowledge is simple and can be obtained by self. We assume that only knowledge of various skills is what requires external training. This is a misconception. While seeds for all kinds of knowledge is there within us, we require more specialized training for those knowledge that have more serious implications and cover so many fields.The same knowledge becomes simpler with expert guidance.

Question: Why do VEDAS focus on Yajnas and animal sacrifice?
Answer:
VEDAS believe in non-violence and prohibit all forms of animal killing for esoteric purpose. It all prohibits killing of animals for food and appeals for compassion for all living beings. You can review “No Beef in Vedas” article to know more about it. It is available in this site at http://agniveer.com/vedas/no-beef-in-vedas/Yajna has three meanings – Respect for God and good people, Good company and Charitable Acts that benefit all. Thus in VEDAS, Yajna has a very comprehensive meaning.The normal Yajna we associate with the word Yajna is called Agnihotra and is a routine to purify environment and minds of pollution. It has its own medical and spiritual benefits. But it has nothing to do with animal sacrifice. Nor Yajna in VEDAS has to be taken in this restrictive sense.

Question: How can you claim VEDAS to be revealed scriptures? Why not Bible and Quran etc?
Answer:
VEDAS are not revealed in the sense we understand. There is nothing magical about its emergence. Its a permanent eternal knowledge that got manifested in same natural manner as creation happened. What makes VEDAS different from BIble and Quran are:
1. It appeared at origin of creation and not intermittently. Thus the knowledge is same for all humans since then. But knowledge of Bible and Quran came much later, and hence those who were born before they came were at major loss.
2. If God has to revise His own message, it means God is imperfect. Thus accepting any later day message as God’s is insult to God.
3. There is no science in Quran or Bible which Vedas do not cover.
4. Nothing in VEDAS is opposed to Science and Reason. It does not talk of miracles which only happen in stories but do not happen in real world.
5. VEDAS cover all branches of knowledge. It is 3 times the size of Quran and covers all possible fields in seed form.
6. It does not contain history, geography or stories.
7. The VEDAS are applicable to all human beings in all geographies. The message is quite generic in nature. It also does not differentiate between believers and non-believers and curse non-believers to eternal Hell.

Question: Why did God deny VEDAS to Shudras and Women?
Answer:
This is another baseless allegation on VEDAS. On contrary, VEDAS emphasize women education more than even men because women are first teachers of next generation. VEDAS clearly proclaim that no one should be denied of knowledge of Ishwar/God. Thus women have full rights to study Vedas.Shudra does not refer to birth-based caste. It is a term to define uneducated person. Thus someone uneducated will automatically not have access to VEDAS. But one can attain education and learn VEDAS and he or she shall no more be a Shudra.And regardless of one’s parentage, anyone can study and teach VEDAS based on his or her merits.VEDAS refute birth-based discrimination of any kind.
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Question: Do VEDAS also talk of practical science and technology?
Answer:
Yes. Vedas provide details on building ships and airplanes. They talk of basics of mathematics and decimal system. They refer to gravity and electricity.However VEDAS do not get into those details which can be explored by humans themselves. Instead, VEDAS would proclaim humans to explore it further.Thus, VEDAS do not spoon-feed because ultimate bliss demands efforts. But they give sufficient directions to ensure one is not misled. And that applies for all fields – physical, social, mental sciences.

Question: What is Vedic concept of God and Soul?
Answer:
Refer to FAQ on Concept of God.In brief, VEDAS consider God, Soul and Matter/Energy duo to be eternal.
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Question: Do VEDAS permit alcohol or Soma Ras?
Answer:
Soma Ras is not alcohol. It refers to exalted state of motivation. The kind of motivation that legendary people and freedom-fighters have.In later era, people started calling alcohol Soma because from perspective of normal people, these exalted people appear insane or intoxicated with their passions.On contrary, VEDAS completely discourage use of substance which numb senses or interferes with purity and clarity of thoughts. Refer Rig Veda 8.2.12 and Atharva veda 6.7.1

Question: Why do VEDAS contain hatred against Dasyus and Anarya – the natives of India?
Answer:
This is another crazy theory prevalent. We shall devote a thorough article to explode this myth.When VEDAS are first texts of mankind, and no one has ever been able to trace its origin, there is no question of there being any natives when VEDAS first came!The word Arya in VEDAS mean a civilized person. Anarya is opposite of Arya and means a criminal. Dasyu means looters.Thus, if I ask, why does modern society have hatred against criminals and looters, what would you say? VEDAS clearly define that criminals and looters should be dealt with iron hand. In a VEDIC society, even someone not believing in VEDAS is allowed to live freely. Unlike Bible and Quran, there is no discrimination on this basis. But criminals and nuisance creators are to be punished like in modern times.

Question: Are Shudras not Anarya? Why are they called Daas or slaves then?
Answer:
No, Shudra refers to one who did not complete education. Shudra can be in any family. Daas is another term for Anarya or criminals.It was much later that owing to breakdown of VEDIC education, the 4 professions which were based on qualifications turned into birth-based systems. And then the uneducated ones had to suffer. Then Daas and Shudra became equivalent.This is like current politics. Noe only children of politicians can become politicians. Others have a no-entry there. After few years, if this trend does not stop, we may have family background come up as an eligibility criteria. It is already so unofficially!

Question: What about idol worship?
Answer:
VEDAS condemn practice of restricting God in idol. That is neither true nor respectful to God. It instead explains a method of mind-control and skills enhancement to worship God. This leads to improved physical, mental and spiritual health and hence the devotee is able to put better efforts.

Question: Why do VEDAS permit polygamy?
Answer:
VEDAS, perhaps, are the only texts in world that clearly discourage Polygamy. It is so convinced of monogamy that all mantras relating to marriage are in dual voice. It further has several mantras that discourage polygamy.

Question: Why did Hindus practice polygamy then?
Answer:
Hindus have done several things against recommendations of VEDAS. And that is why they suffered so many upsets. VEDAS do not ban anything with fear of Hell. Instead they spell out their recommendations. This is like books on Medicine. They will explain effect of smoking on lungs. A wise man would understand from that. But a fool would still smoke. VEDAS are not targeted towards fools.Society has on various times deviated from VEDIC teachings and has suffered loss in that aspect. For example Dashrath took 4 wives, or Pandavas played gambling. But neither is an example of VEDIC practice and both suffered setbacks for their stupidities.

Question: Will learning Vedic mantras lead me to ultimate bliss?
Answer:
Simply mugging up mantras would be a waste of time. VEDAS are a workbook. You need to practice the meaning in Knowledge, Action and Contemplation. Further, each mantra has deeper and deeper layers of meanings. This exploration is a life long but extremely enjoyable process. You need to submerge completely to get benefits and fun! Like in learning any sports or skills. Shortcuts are waste of time.Often many people mug up mantras, standard speeches and dialogues and pose as experts. They may gain popularity, but are wasting their times. And making their future progress even more difficult due to layers of false ego that they have accumulated.

Question: Why do not everyone embrace VEDAS when everything is so logical?
Answer:
For exactly the same reasons that people find difficult to quit smoking even when they know that it is damaging. Past tendencies, false egos and lack of Will make it difficult.Today, based on in which society we were born, or who influenced us first with charisma, who insulted us, we decide whether we are Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Christian, Buddhist etc. Very few people are able to rise above these uncontrolled parameters and do an objective analysis and embrace truth. And this courage to embrace truth and reject false is first step to achieving Truth=Vedas=Bliss.As I said, there is no scope for blind faith in VEDAS. Even those who believe in VEDAS without any reason or thorough analysis, merely due to above mentioned reasons, are simply wasting their times.For true truth-warriors, nothing is more fun than embracing VEDAS.

Question: I have another question. What do I do?
Answer:
1. You can read Introduction to Vedas and Light of Truth by Dayanand Saraswasti and answer many more doubts.2. You can visit http://satyavidya.org3. You can post it on Vistor FAQ section at http://agniveer.com/faq/4. You can share a comment here. 5. You can mail me at [email protected]

Question: I want to formally embrace VEDIC way of life? Is there a ritual like in Islam and Christianity?
Answer:
Rituals serve the purpose of self-discipline and installing a reference point to focus the mind. For truly Yogic, there is no need for any ritual.But if you feel you would like to approach VEDAS more systematically, mail me at [email protected]

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  • regarding dayanand listen vedeos on spritual discusson between jagatguru rampai maharaj n arya samaj to be enlightened on ……..

    • Jalwan,

      Please stay away from all these gurus and don’t waste your valuable time. Fanatics are attacking Vedas and Hinduism from outside while these idiots are like cancer, eating Hinduism from Inside.

      I have seen one video from jagatguru rampai maharaj.. He speaks complete nonsense.

      • thanks gyan surya. brahman belives what he wants to belive n wants u belive what he belives. in manusmarti indicated sudra male+brahman female=chandal, brahman male+akshtriya female=katri. chandal is to be treated lowest. while chandal is half brahman n his brother khatri is half akshtriya how former is lower than later ? how son of prostitute (who has husband 4 or more) satyakama is brahman? how grand son n son brahman pandu ,dhritrshtra nvidur not brahman ? these questions create confusion in mind confirming that there must have been some conspiracy by vested intersts due to which jambudwip broken into pieces n convertions to budhism jainism christianity islam shikhism n still nonsense castism fight each claiming- rajput when no rajas who used to be from all castes as such rajput is no caste. jat dominating caste now is given reservation like ahirs gujars etc bcoz being sudra. y not these 4 shankaryas join as 3 already joined in scraping castism since all r equal created n protected by paramatman/parambrahman whose ansh atman/brahman in all living beings. one be known by character /deeds. n can’t be associated with character/deed good/bad of any other atman/brahman. vikramaditya – vikarmi samvat mostly followed in india n some other countries since 57BC was 2nd son of king of ujjain named dardabhilla took sister of one jain muni on whose request one saka king attacked ujjain, dardabhilla was prisoned,who ran away in jangal n was eaten by tiger. vikramaditya grown up in jungal attaceked ujjain n became raja n started vikarmi samvat based on which all hindu festivals – vijya dashmi/ burning of ravna, diwali, dev uthani, dev sowani, ram navami , janmashthmi, holi , rakhi, sakaranti etc r celebbrated. so son of rapist is not rapist. son of vyas –dhritrshtr, pandu n vidur not brahman. thus caste by birth as thumb rule adopted is wrong decaying india. in mankind nobody is superior or inferior all strike like brothers for glory n prowess (rig ved 5:60:5)

  • A question:
    I read in one of your posts that God created universe in a perfect manner. It follows that everything must have a purpose. But, what purpose do the diseases serve? And, in human body, appendix is useless part-why to create such parts?(this is more specific-but in more general sense,many apparently purposeless things exist in nature)

    • Hello Satyamevajayate ,

      Even I have similar questions. There are many creatures which live in remote areas like deep seas, underground, etc. They are entirely out of touch with the other earthly inhabitants. I wanted to know the purpose of creating such creatures.

      With regards to your query on diseases, in my humble opinion, I believe that if an individual takes proper care of his body then he would be entirely free of diseases and other afflictions.

      Regards.

  • I have few doubts regarding Vedas: 1) It is widely believed that Rigveda is an account of the battle between Devas and Asuras,mainly between Indra and Vritrasura-is it true? And there is a story I heard from Rigveda-that Indra killed Vritrasura using Vajrayudha made from the spine of Dadhichi-is it true?
    2)Was Rigveda partly agnostic? Otherwise what is the meaning of Nasadiya sukta in Rigveda? Vedas are thought to be revelations-where is the place for skepticism in revelation? Doesn’t this sukta show that Vedas were not revelations, but products of evolved human thoughts? Because, Upanishads are thought to contain commentaries on Vedas-why some of these express scepticism if it was not in Vedas?; and the 6 schools of Hindu philosophy based on different interpretations of Vedas-why some of them are atheistic?

    • @ Satyamevajayate ,

      With regards to your query, “and the 6 schools of Hindu philosophy based on different interpretations of Vedas-why some of them are atheistic?”

      Swami Dayanand has nicely explained in his Satyarth Prakash why there is unity amongst all the schools of Hindu philosophy and also why none of them are atheistic.

      “Nothing in this world can be produced without proper application.” Mimansa”
      “Nothing can be done or made without the expenditure of time.” Vaisheshika
      “Nothing in this world can be produced without the material cause.” Niyaya
      “Nothing can be made without the requisite skill, knowledge and thought.” Yoga
      “Nothing can be made without the definite combination of atoms.” Sankhaya
      “Nothing can be made without a Maker.” Vedanta

      I would request you to peruse chapter 7 from the same book if you haven’t done so already.
      http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/chapterseven.htm

      Regards.

  • Who wrote the Shruti & Smrti books? Are they accepted by all branches of Hinduism?…

    Question: How were the VEDAS revealed? Answer: Tradition says that the VEDAS were first revealed in heart of 4 Rishis or seers during inception of the civilization. These were having the best traits as per previous Karma or actions, and most eligible t…

  • I have a question for agniveer. vedas is holy and was handed by divine is all fine but why is that only we the people from India only recieved it from the almighty,if the vedas were intended to guide our human life why only we got the chance to have it and not other countries ,is it because only we indians were blessed enough to get the vedas .i want to know the underlying fact about why only we treasured it .

  • Vedas truth exposed

    http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Swami_Dayanand_Saraswati:A_Prophet_of_Modern_Hinduism

    Swami Dayanand Saraswati:A Prophet of Modern Hinduism
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    Swami Dayanand Saraswati:A Prophet of Modern Hinduism

    More than thirty-five years ago I graduated from D.A.V. College in Amritsar. Credit truly goes to this fine institution that I still cherish my fond memories of the educational experience. Even though D.A.V. College is named after a man called “Dayanand”, most students knew next to nothing about him and nor were we taught anything about him. Then in the early 1970s a minor incident occurred that surprised many of us. The Punjab Government decided to realign some colleges to affiliate with the newly created Guru Nanak University located in Amritsar. A number of colleges including those in Amritsar were included in this transfer category and surprisingly this decision caused an uproar among them. Apparently these colleges were content with their affiliation with the Punjab University in Chandigarh, and resented strongly being reassigned to Guru Nanak University. As a young student I heard distressing rumors that these D.A.V. colleges didn’t think much of the name of Guru Nanak, which to me was baffling all the more because I held D.A.V. colleges in high esteem just as I held Guru Nanak’s name. I graduated and moved on but the question remained in my remote memory as to why such institutions of higher learning like the D.A.V colleges resented being linked to the name of Guru Nanak via a university affiliation.

    After commissioning in the U.S. Army and weeks before leading to the 1984 tragedies affecting the Sikhs in India, I read a few reports highlighting the role that Arya Samaj played in the breakdown of Punjabi society both before and after Punjab’s partition in 1947. Swami Dayananda about whom I did not know much at that time founded Arya Samaj. I have always exercised caution while reading news authored by various Indian groups including the Sikhs. Finally the circumstances had descended for me to begin unveiling the mystery of Arya Samaj and its founder Swami Dayanand. Little was I prepared when in 1991 I read the Satyarth Prakash, Dayananda’s master literature, which left me stunned for days. Before I dwell further on the Swami, let me say a few words on modern Hinduism, an understanding of which is essential here. What is modern Hinduism?

    With the introduction of British colonialism in the Bengal region of India a new ideology took birth that was to transform classical and/or popular Hinduism. In other words, modern Hinduism (also referred to as reformatory Hinduism) is a reinterpretation of Hindu scriptures or Hindu ideas based upon the following six competing aggressive factors: (1) European colonialism; (2) Christian missions; (3) Western education & technology; (4) Western means of propaganda & disinformation; (5) Theosophy; and (6) Freemasonry. Over the years various interpretations had appeared on the horizon starting with the Brahmo Samaj and its various tributaries. Men who brought forth these new interpretations are the ones whom I call “Prophets of modern Hinduism.” They range from RamMohan Roy in Bengal to Mahatma Gandhi of Gujarat. In fact among the cadres of these prophets, all hailed from Bengal with the exception of two from Gujarat namely Swami Dayananda and Mahatma Gandhi.

    It should be noted that both Gandhi and Dayanand exerted far-reaching negative impact on Punjab. While popular imagination is entrenched in thinking that modern Hinduism is after all a reformatory movement and therefore a far better alternative to its predecessor, I contend that modern Hinduism is far more precarious ideologically with its unending mutations at any given opportunity and it can, and has, seriously undermined both the Hindus and their neighbors including the Sikhs. This characteristic of modern Hinduism is absolutely essential to unfolding the mystery surrounding Swami Dayananda and his legacy.

    I have been researching Swami Dayananda off and on for the last sixteen years. Dayanand was a big man full of an unending supply of inner energies, determinations, zeal, resolve, and so forth. He cherished a sincere desire to seek answers to many mysteries that grapple a thinking person, and he would travel extraordinary distances often in unfriendly territories hoping to find answers. Imbued with that hungry spirit, amazingly Swami would seek debates with his opponents and open the books including the Hindu scriptures. All in all this man, while on road, carried a significant load of reading materials plus other items. Such was his unquenchable thirst to learn. There are more admirable qualities about him but I think you got the idea.

    Dayanand’s story began in a small town of Tankara, Gujarat in 1824; born with a name of DayaRam Mulshankar, the Swami was nicknamed Mulji. Expectedly his Brahman parents were deeply religious within the Shaivite tradition and rightly so harbored great aspirations for Mulji. By the age of 22 years (1846) Mujli’s life was anything but stable; there was a storm brewing inside of him and he ran away from home. Shortly thereafter he was bestowed with the coveted title and he became Swami Dayanand Saraswati. Life away from home and barely existing on the dusty road and back alleys for the next 15 years in faraway inhospitable places as a sannayasi pursuing yoga and surviving by begging is no easy lifestyle. Then, why pursue such a life? The Swami’s answer would be moksha. I suspect Mulji was already experiencing psychological challenges, but I can’t cast a definitive critical eye on his early years (evidence is lacking). The Swami’s life as a yogi is a specimen for closer examination, however.

    If Dayanand’s younger years at home were healthy (suspicion is otherwise), I believe yoga seriously undermined Swami’s critical faculties, and possibly afflicted him with a bipolar-like personality disorder. Swami devoted significant time and effort to master yoga, a task fraught with dangers. Reading his biographies one can’t escape turmoil the Swami was in. Here is an example: While on the banks of Ganges, upon seeing a corpse floating, Swami jumped and dragged the body out to examine it’s inside using his pocket knife. He cut open the body to inspect the heart, head, neck, etc., trying to verify the yoga anatomical details. Not finding them the frustrations grew. One can imagine Swami’s mental framework! It should come as no surprise to know that he could not find the chakras and the nadis via gross anatomy, which leads me to believe that Swami hadn’t been reading the yoga scriptures carefully. Nonetheless this wild experience should have convinced him to reevaluate the field of Hindu spirituality. But I can’t find that moment; all I find is more turmoil in him.

    Further down in time, Swami found himself poisoned and he at once resorted to applying Neoli-karm, apparently one of the yogic dhoutis. Swami descended into the Ganges water, swallowed large quantities of this polluted water and passed it out via his anus in an attempt to flush his entire gastrointestinal system. By this way we are told, Swami saved his life. If this incident is true it points to the fact that Swami was deep into the yoga practices and no surprise to those of us who study Yoga that such yogic complex techniques point to his psychological instabilities. If this were not enough Dayanand acquired the habit of ingesting bhang.

    As stated earlier these roughly fifteen years of pursuing yoga devastated the Swami especially his mental health if not the physical health. Swami needed a quick rescue and in 1860, Swami Virjanand Saraswati (1779-1868) of Mathura is credited for saving Dayanand. For the next three years, Mulji received instructions and then was commissioned to restore glory to Aryavarta and reestablish pristine Vedic knowledge at the expense of all other false religions. To put it mildly, as Arthur Koestler would sum it, Swami was tasked to become a Yogi and the Commissar – a perfect blend of both politics and religion. The image of Swami Dayananda that we have inherited as a reformer had its roots at this stage of his life. At this time, I will stop the biography and concentrate on Swami’s important teachings. VEDAS & the Vedic Literature

    Dayanand considered Vedas to be eternal, meaning they existed before the universe came into being and authored by God himself. Using his brand of hermeneutics, Swami radically altered the teachings of Vedas thereby bringing them in conformity with the Semitic religions of Islam and Christianity. This of course didn’t go well at many places, especially where scholars and prominent people knew Sanskrit. In Punjab, however, the situation was different due to the susceptibility of educated Hindu Punjabi Khatri and his receptiveness to the new Vedic interpretation. Neither knowing Sanskrit and nor being versed in the Hindu scriptures these Punjabi Hindus swallowed the whole of Swami’s Vedas. Sensing his incredible successes in Punjab, Swami contacted the Punjab government to lay validity to his Vedic commentary. Hardly a surprise, the Punjab government along with its cadre of Vedic scholars rejected the Swami. Even Max Muller commented,

    “By the most incredible interpretations Swami Dayanand succeeded in persuading himself and others that everything worth knowing, even the most recent inventions of modern science, were alluded to in the Vedas.”

    One man named Shiv Narayan Agnihotri (later, Satyananda Agnihotri) emerges as an intellectual giant of Punjab. Based upon his intense dealings with the Swami, Agnihotri accused him of (1) embezzlement, (2) hypocrisy, (3) the teachings of immorality (4) arrogance, and (5) misrepresentations of the Vedas. Unfortunately, the Punjabi Hindu, brainwashed in Arya Samaj, was in no mood to listen to Agnihotri. Incidentally, this is the same Agnihotri who almost forty years later warned Punjabis and other Indians to beware of Mahatma Gandhi. Agnihotri was the first Indian to recognize that race hatred is the modus operandi by which Gandhi worked his politics. The tragedy is that in both cases he failed to convince his fellow Punjabis of these two Gujaratis in their midst. Bhai Ditt Singh (1853-1901) had a singular honor of joining the ranks of Swami during his Punjab journey. Ditt Singh experienced another rare fortunate incident when he renounced the Swami upon learning uncomfortable version of his sermons. During this up close sessions, Singh literally witnessed how intricate and methodical the Vedic interpretations were made: Swami Dayanand reflected a considerable amount of flexibility in changing his interpretation of Vedas according to the need of the hour. For instance, in one of his discourses at Lahore, he said that the sun revolved around the earth. Back home, his admirers told him that people will think poor of Vedas as the latest scientific knowledgeable reveals that earth revolves around the sun. The following day, Swami Dayanand revised his interpretation of Vedas accordingly. The Caste System and Racism Although on the surface Dayanand looked reformed, however, on closer inspection he appears casteist and downright racist. In other words, the caste system stays intact, perhaps more solidified, if Swami’s prescription of Hindu totalitarianism were to be implemented. On page 266 [Bharadwaja’s translation] of Satyarth Prakash, we read him by citing the Atharva Veda: “The Dwijas (the twice-born)—Brahmanas, Ksyatriyas, Vaishyas—are called Aryas, while the Shudras are called Anaryas, or Non-Aryas.” Swami continues his racial rhetoric: In the face of these Vedic authorities how can sensible people believe in the imaginary tales of the foreigners. In the Devasura wars, Prince Arjuna and King Dashratha and others of Aryavarta used to go to the assistance of the Aryas in order to crush the Asuras…. But the war which Ram Chandra waged in the south against Ravana—the king of Ceylon—is called … war between the Aryas and Rakshasas. Besides, Manu also corroborates our position. He says, “The countries other than Aryavarta are called Dasyu and Maleschha countries.” The people living in the north-east, north, north-west and west of Aryavarta were called Dasyus, Asuras and Malechhas, while those living in the south, south-east and south-west were called Rakshasas. You can still see that the description of Rakshasas given therein tallies with the ugly appearance of the Negroes of today…. Hindu reformers like Dayananda would play with words and the concepts giving out different images of caste reforms without ever acknowledging that deceptive rhetoric is meant to throw off others by creating confusion. Careful reading of Swami’s political ideas throws some light insofar as his idea of a Hindu totalitarian state. One can only imagine the creation of state’s bureaucracy handling the caste matters! Dr. Rudolf Hoernle (Principal, Banaras Sanskrit College) made the following remarks: The [caste] the reformer [Dayananda] considers only as a political institution made by the rulers for the common good of society and not a natural or religious distinction…. The castes are simply different professions or guilds (adhikaras), established by the state to guard against confusion and mutual interference, and for the better establishment of the different works. Each class was made into a guild and furnished with its rights and privileges and made hereditary. But, as the whole classification is a creation of the state, any Sudra, who is deserving of the promotion, can be made by the state a Vaisya or Kshattriya or Brahmana, if he qualifies for the work of the respective class. Likewise any Brahmana, who deserves the degradation can be made by the state a Sudra. In fact, any Brahmana who is disqualified for the work, becomes at once a Sudra de jure, and a Sudra, who qualifies for it, becomes at once a Brahmana de jure; though neither can become so de facto also either by his own will or the will of others, as long as the state does not make him so.

    On the surface Swami has made a reform here because seemingly the idea of hereditary castes is no longer Vedic and, the non-hereditary caste system is to be run and maintained by the State. In other words, what sounded as reform turned out to be no reform: If the caste system cannot be protected by claiming the religious doctrines for whatever reasons then come up with the political design to accomplish the same. The end result is still the same. There is no evidence in place where Swami as an authority ever crossed the caste lines to intermingle or eat with the lower castes. At one time he refused to dine with Sayed Ahmed Khan, and on another occasion he refused to eat a Brahmo’s food because it had been prepared by a low-caste female. Once in Banaras, Swami left a room where a Muslim was present to have a drink of water. .” Immoralities Swami remained single throughout his life. Whether he experienced any sexual encounters of any variety is hard to tell since the literature is silent on this fact. For sake of understanding, let’s say you are married and you find out your wife is pregnant. Given your beliefs, consider that you must refrain from any sexual activity until your wife delivers a baby. In the meantime how do you handle your sexual urges? Swami has an answer: Go ahead with sexual intercourse with someone else provided you do it according to the Vedic instructions — read page 140 of Satyarth Prakash. In no way this recommendation is different from Islam’s sanctioning of “temporary marriage” called Mutah. Swami spelled out a wild doctrine of niyoga. I ask the reader to browse through pages 130 to 140 of Satyarth Prakash to grasp what niyoga is. Many fair-minded Hindus and others were incensed at the Swami for uttering such immoral nonsense. Manusmriti sanctions sex outside the norm in a narrowly prescribed manner. But the Swami, being never a careful reader, overextended Manu’s sanctions and created a scandal against him. His brainwashed followers brought suit against those ridiculing the niyoga. I am thankful to John Campbell Oman for bringing to my attention the following: “Courts pronounced the tenets of the Arya Samaj in regard to Niyoga to be undoubtedly immoral.” Sex

    Jordens referenced this paragraph from “Rishi Dayananda Saraswati ke Patra aur Vijnapan,” 2nd edition (1955) pages 451-52. Obviously Swami believed in more Vedic-derived ideas recorded beyond the confines of his Satyarth Prakash. Again I felt that Jordens’ above paragraph also jarringly resembled those teachings sprouting from Brihad-Aranyaka Upanishad. I have been contemplating about Swami Dayananda and wondering what more did he truly believe out of this famous Upanishad. For reasons that will become clearer and I prefer not to comment on it any further, but I will suggest you read the following entire twenty-eight verses dealing with “incantations and ceremonies for procreation,” of the fourth Brahmana—section of SIXTH ADHYÂYA of Brihad-Aranyaka Upanishad: (Specific to the red colored section, I forewarn this may not be suitable for some readers) .

    1. Verily, of created things here earth is the essence; of earth, water; of water, plants; of plants, flowers; of flowers, fruits; of fruits, man (purusa); of man, semen. 2. Prajâpati (‘Lord of creatures’) bethought himself: ‘Come, let me provide him a firm basis!’ So he created woman. When he had created her, he revered her below.–Therefore one should revere woman below.–He stretched out for himself that stone which projects. With that he impregnated her. 3. Her lap is a sacrificial altar; her hairs, the sacrificial grass; her skin, the soma-press. The two labia of the vulva are the fire in the middle. Verily, indeed, as great as is the world of him who sacrifices with the Vâjapeya (‘Strength-libation’) sacrifice, so great is the world of him who practises sexual intercourse, knowing this; he turns the good deeds of women to himself. But he who practises sexual intercourse without knowing this-women turn his good deeds unto themselves. 4. This, verily, indeed, it was that Uddâlaka Âruni knew when he said:– This, verily, indeed, it was that Nâka Maudgalya knew when he said:– This, verily, indeed, it was that Kumârahârita knew when he said: ‘Many mortal men, Brahmans by descent, go forth from this world, impotent and devoid of merit, namely those who practise sexual intercourse without knowing this.’ [If] even this much semen is spilled, whether of one asleep or of one awake, [5] then he should touch it, or [without touching] repeat:– ‘What semen has of mine to earth been spilt now, Whate’er to herb has flowed, whate’er to water– This very semen I reclaim! Again to me let vigor come! Again, my strength; again, my glow! Again the altars and the fire Be found in their accustomed place!’ Having spoken thus, he should take it with ring-finger and thumb, and rub it on between his breasts or his eye-brows 6. Now, if one should see himself in water, he should recite over it the formula: ‘In me be vigor, power, beauty, wealth, merit!’ This, verily, indeed, is loveliness among women: when she has removed the clothes of her impurity. Therefore when she has removed the clothes of her impurity and is beautiful, one should approach and invite her. 7. If she should not grant him his desire, he should bribe her. If she still does not grant him his desire, he should hit her with a stick or with his hand, and overcome her, saying: ‘With power, with glory I take away your glory!’ Thus she becomes inglorious. 8. If she should yield to him, he says: ‘With power, with glory I give you glory!’ Thus they two become glorious. 9. The woman whom one may desire with the thought, ‘May she enjoy love with me!’–after inserting the member in her, joining mouth with mouth, and stroking her lap, he should mutter:– ‘Thou that from every limb art come, That from the heart art generate, Thou art the essence of the limbs! Distract this woman here in me, As if by poisoned arrow pierced!’ 10. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, ‘May she not conceive offspring!’–after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first inhale, then exhale, and say: ‘With power, with semen, I reclaim the semen from you!’ Thus she comes to be without seed. 11. Now, the woman whom one may desire with the thought, ‘May she conceive!’–after inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he should first exhale, then inhale, and say: ‘With power, with semen, I deposit semen in you!’ Thus she becomes pregnant. 12. Now, if one’s wife have a paramour, and he hate him, let him put fire in an unannealed vessel, spread out a row of reed arrows in inverse order, and therein sacrifice in inverse order those reed arrows, their heads smeared with ghee, saying:– ‘You have made a libation in my fire! I take away your in-breath and out-breath (prânâpânau)–you, so-and-so! You have made a libation in my fire! I take away your sons and cattle–you, so-and-so! You have made a libation in my fire! I take away your sacrifices and meritorious deeds –you, so-and-so! You have made a libation in my fire! I take away your hope and expectation–you, so-and-so!’ Verily, he whom a Brahman who knows this curses–he departs from this world impotent and devoid of merit. Therefore one should not desire dalliance with the spouse of a person learned in sacred lore (s’rotriya) who knows this, for indeed he who knows this becomes superior. 13. Now, when the monthly sickness comes upon anyone’s wife, for three days she should not drink from a metal cup, nor put on fresh clothes. Neither a low-caste man nor a low-caste woman should touch her. At the end of the three nights she should bathe and should have rice threshed. 14. In case one wishes, ‘That a white son be born to me! that he be able to repeat a Veda! that he attain the full length of life!’–they two should have rice cooked with milk and should eat it prepared with ghee. They two are likely to beget [him]. 15. Now, in case one wishes, ‘That a tawny son with reddish-brown eyes be born to me! that he be able to recite two Vedas! that he attain the full length of life!’–they two should have rice cooked with sour milk and should eat it prepared with ghee. They two are likely to beget [him]. 16. Now, in case one wishes, ‘That a swarthy son with red eyes be born to me! that he be able to repeat three Vedas! that he attain the full length of life!’–they two should have rice boiled with water and should eat it prepared with ghee. They two are likely to beget [him]. 17. Now, in case one wishes, ‘That a learned (pandita) daughter be born to me! that she attain the full length of life!’–they two should have rice boiled with sesame and should eat it prepared with ghee. They two are likely to beget [her]. 18. Now, in case one wishes, ‘That a son, learned, famed, a frequenter of council-assemblies, a speaker of discourse desired to be heard, be born to me! that he be able to repeat all the Vedas! that he attain the full length of life!’–they two should have rice boiled with meat and should eat it prepared with ghee. They two are likely to beget [him], with meat, either veal or beef. 19. Now, toward morning, having prepared melted butter in the manner of the Sthâlîpâka, he takes of the Sthâlîpâka and makes a libation, saying: ‘To Agni, hail! To Anumati, hail! To the god Savitri (‘Enlivener,’ the Sun), whose is true procreation 3 (satya-prasava), hail!’ Having made the libation, he takes and eats, Having eaten, he offers to the other [i.e. to her]. Having washed his hands, he fills a vessel with water and therewith sprinkles her thrice, saying:– ‘Arise from hence, Vis’vavasu! Some other choicer maiden seek! This wife together with her lord —-‘ 20. Then he comes to her and says:– ‘This man (ama) am I; that woman (sâ), thou! That woman, thou; this man am I! I am the Sâman; thou, the Rig! I am the heaven; thou, the earth! Come, let us two together clasp! Together let us semen mix, A male, a son for to procure!’ 21. Then he spreads apart her thighs, saying: ‘Spread yourselves apart, heaven and earth!’ Inserting the member in her and joining mouth with mouth, he strokes her three times as the hair lies, saying:– ‘Let Vishnu make the womb prepared! Let Tyashtri shape the various forms! Prajâpati–let him pour in! Let Dhâtri place the germ for thee! O Sinîvâlî, give the germ; O give the germ, thou broad-tressed dame! Let the Twin Gods implace thy germ– The Asvins, crowned with lotus-wreaths! 22. With twain attrition-sticks of gold

    The As’vin Twins twirl forth a flame;
    ‘Tis such a germ we beg for thee,
    In the tenth month to be brought forth.

    As earth contains the germ of Fire (agni), As heaven is pregnant with the Storm (indra), As of the points the Wind (vâyu) is germ, E’en so a germ I place in thee,

    So-and-so!’

    23. When she is about to bring forth, he sprinkles her with water, saying.– Like as the wind doth agitate A lotus-pond on every side, So also let thy fetus stir. Let it come with its chorion. This fold of Indra’s has been made With barricade enclosed around. O Indra, cause him to come forth– The after-birth along with babe!’ 24. When [the son] is born, he [i. e. the father] builds up a fire, places him on his lap, mingles ghee and coagulated milk in a metal dish, and makes an oblation, ladling out of the mingled ghee and coagulated milk, and saying- ‘In this son may I be increased, And have a thousand in mine house! May nothing rob his retinue Of offspring or of animals!

    Hail!

    The vital powers (prâna) which are in me, my mind, I offer in you. Hail!

    What in this rite I overdid, Or what I have here scanty made– Let Agni, wise, the Prosperer, Make fit and good our sacrifice!

    Hail!’

    25. Then he draws down to the child’s right ear and says ‘Speech! Speech!’ three times. Then he mingles coagulated milk, honey, and ghee and feeds [his son] out of a gold [spoon] which is not placed within [the mouth], saying: ‘I place in you Bhûr! I place in you Bhuvas! I place in you Svar! Bhûr, Bhuvas, Svar—everything I place in you!’ 26. Then he gives him a name, saying: ‘You are Veda.’ So this becomes his secret name. 27. Then he presents him to the mother and offers the breast, saying:– ‘Thy breast which is unfailing and refreshing, Wealth-bearer, treasure-finder, rich bestower, With which thou nourishest all things esteeméd– Give it here, O Sarasvatî, to suck from.’ 28. Then he addresses the child’s mother:– ‘You are Ilâ, of the lineage of Mitra and Varuna! O heroine! She has borne a hero!’ Continue to be such a woman abounding in heroes– She who has made us abound in a hero!’ Of such a son, verily, they say: ‘Ah, you have gone beyond your father! Ah, you have gone beyond your grandfather!’ Ah, he reaches the highest pinnacle of splendor, glory, and sacred knowledge who is born as the son of a Brahman who knows this! Homa (Havan) Of late the world is witnessing increasing pollution; in India this problem is even more severe. For reasons already discussed it shouldn’t be difficult and surprising to learn that Swami’s prescription of sacred sacrifice of burning the woods in a religious ceremony, if carried through true to the spirit, would have doomed humanity a lot quicker. Bhai Kahan Singh (1861-1938) after reading chapter 3 of Satyarth Prakash explored the Homa quandary in his “Sikhs: We are not Hindus”: In the jungle, on the bank of a river, morning and evening, take a pot that is sixteen fingers (12 inches) deep and of the same width, perform Havan by burning wood. Read Mantras and make offerings by pouring butter, etc. in the fire. The Havan purifies air. By not performing Homa there is sin, because bad smell originates from humans and that makes the air unclean, and becomes the cause of disease. If Homa were to be performed like old days all the maladies of India will disappear. There should be more ghee (melted butter) used in Homa than for eating. Every person should make, at least, 16 offerings of Ghee, each of six Mashas (about 5 grams) he have to consider this, if we need to purify air, why not perform Haven in the House? Air in the jungle is already fresh and pure. What is the significance of the special size of the pot for Havan? … If every one of the family, morning and evening, burns only 8 measures then a family of ten will need 160 tolas (about 2,240 grams) ghee everyday. What is required for food will be greater. The benefit that Dayanand foresees through Homa for the country is beyond our comprehension. Swami also believed that performing Homa sacrifice will increase the rainfall!

    Political Activism

    Performing his role as a political agent and as agitator was probably the most effective methodology that Swami had swung into motion. And it had enduring side-effects much of it, if not all, turned negative. Three case reports should illustrate the point. a. Munshi Indramani, an Arya, and a known writer especially against Islam, lost a court case against him brought by Muslims. The issue got out of hands thanks in part because the Swami personally got involved inciting Hindus and sought funds to help Indramani. This was the first time Swami succeeded in getting the Aryas deeply involved in an agitation where Arya Samaj’s activism was promoted as defender of Hinduism vis-à-vis Islam. This was the beginning of a new brand of low politics that was to reshape Hindu-Muslim relations. b. The idea of “Cow Protection” steadily grew in Swami’s mind and eventually turned into a fury full of rage and momentum. Again this confrontational agitation turned and pitted against Muslims covering from local level to nationwide implications. Dayananda rationalized many reasons to safeguard the cows including the ideas that it promotes “better rainfall and a purer atmosphere.” It is mind boggling to read the extent to which Swami would travel against cow slaughter. Besides the merits or the demerits of Swami leading off this aggressive movement, clearly as an outcome, it cemented chilling relations with the Muslims. c. Swami left no stone unturned to promote the Hindi language while turning against Urdu. By 1870s, the movement for Hindi had already adopted an intriguing argument connecting language, religion, and nation. Hinduism as a religion and Hindi as a language couldn’t have been fortuitous in the sense that it was merely in roughly 1850s that the European colonials had coined both terms: Hindi and Hinduism. While the Bengali elite somehow entangled themselves first to promote the idea of Hindi as a national language, it was Swami himself whose agitations encompassing his entire spread out Arya organizations and publishing vehicles transformed the Hindi campaign to a higher pitch nationwide. Upon his death, thanks largely to the Swami, he left behind a politically inspired active functioning team. All of Swami’s “active measures” promoting himself and his Arya Samaj to the forefront of artificially labeled national causes embittered the Muslim population. In fact a case can be made that Swami Dayananda is really the father of modern Hinduism who had planted anti-Muslim politics in India. In a recently published (2004) book, “Identity and Religion: Foundations of anti-Islamism in India,” Professor Amalendu Misra, though missing Dayananda altogether, marshaled a compelling research on some of the other prophets of modern Hinduism and their devastated consequences. Following the tragic 1947 partitions, the Arya political machine dominated by the Punjabi elements turned more self-destructive: they went after their own Punjabi mother tongue while promoting Hindi with a religious zeal. Arya’s politicization of language causes had delivered a mortal blow to Punjab’s already vulnerable psyche. The last two chapters of Satyarth Prakash solely deal with Swami’s critical analysis on both Islam & Christianity. Written in the early 1880s, his reading and analysis of both the Koran and the Bible shows Dayananda’s deep interest in these topics for number of years before he penned his comments. These commentaries imparted some utility values at the time of writing and shortly thereafter. But today with the advent and rapid advances of modern Biblical and Islamic scholarships, Swami’s write ups are crude, unsophisticated, and outdated. They serve hardly any useful purpose. Swami’s untimely death in 1883 at which time he was barely 59 years old shocked everyone. Some believe he was poisoned by a prostitute; I am not sure what killed him. But the evidence is convincing that with so many doctors attending to him, literally left the medical case grossly mismanaged. Conclusion What do we make of Swami Dayananda? What to do with Arya Samaj? With the benefit of hindsight, today there are no easy answers. Just the other day, a friend asked me if Swami always uttered nonsense. My answer was no. For him to be recognized as a credible founder and interpreter of ancient Vedas, he had enough intelligence to sway and guide a portion of relatively educated Hindus, especially in Punjab. Very few of these Punjabis had the sense of healthy skepticism and tenacity to go and double check the Swami. To be blunt, Swami had much more difficult task to con those non-Punjabi Indians (for example Bengali educated class) who were familiar with the Hindu texts and knew of Sanskrit. Like his sole Gujarati successor in the field of modern Hinduism, Mahatma Gandhi, Swami was an unstable man who learned to thrive on chaos. His damage done to Punjab is beyond repair. I understand why many Sikhs, Muslims, and some Hindus express an aversion for the Swami and his followers. I look at Arya Samajists (or Aryas) with a degree of hope. I recognize serious troubles with Dayananda. What he had unleashed was really troublesome that we all must face. I have known and befriended many Aryas. These men and women are hard working and honest people. Like other politically inspired ideologies, Arya Samaj has given birth to its own fair share of fanatics. But again I must stress many Aryas are law-abiding and will never hurt anybody irrespective of what Swami’s legacy has been. In my own education at D.A.V. College, I have seen Aryas behave at their best. What is lodged inside the pages of Satyarth Prakash is really a huge problem for the Aryas and that burden is theirs and should stay that way. How they handle the substantive errors and many other outdated things is their internal business. Sikhs should not ask them to remove just three or four questionable pages on Sikh Gurus and be content to leave the rest intact. I think the problem is much bigger than those just few questionable pages.

    The problem of Dayananda is part of a bigger mess–the issue of modern Hinduism. Modern Hinduism has not served well the interests of Hindus. Additionally in the process, it has inflicted pains upon Sikhs, and other Indian religious groups as well. We must face the fact that modern Hinduism had never been a reform movement; in fact it has made Hinduism a malignant force, and ushered far more deadly fundamentalism consistent with those coming out of the Semitic religions. While eroding away many of Hindusim’s classical polytheistic worldview and multiple value-systems, Arya Samaj replaced it with new wild interpretations concocted to face the Christian missionaries of a bygone era. Now the times have changed and with that politics even more so. I believe traditional and popular Hinduisms have enough reservoirs to handle the missionary and colonial threats of the future. Again the burden to transform modern Hinduism back to traditional and popular roots of Hinduism rests with those who call themselves Hindus. It is their burden. This won’t be an easy going-back sort of transformation. Hindus are people with deeper internal strengths and resourcefulness and I have full confidence they will take appropriate measures in months and years to come. Before I close, I think Hindus (and others) should benefit from the well-informed comments of Rev. T. Williams on the true nature of Dayananda as recorded in a pamphlet published in 1894, “A Farce—a religion professedly based on a book, which, as translated for that religion, has no existence.”

    But in point of fact POLITICAL MOTIVES are at the bottom of the whole Arya Samaj movement, whether the members be flesh-eaters or non-flesh-eaters. A religious character was given to it by Dayananda simply as a means to this end. Political motives are really those that have attracted even the rank and file. The members of the Arya Samaj are not one whit more religious—rather less so in my opinion—than their confreres of the old system. The reply usually given by the Aryas as to why they follow Dayananda is that he sought THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE COUNTRY (mark, not THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE RELIGION). It is, I repeat, a political movement, and Dayananda sought to bind all his countrymen into one compact whole by giving ONE shastra and ONE religion, even though he had for this purpose to forge them both.

    == Reference ==

    1. J.T.F. Jordens, Dayananda Sarasvati: His Life and Ideas. Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1978. 2. H.C.E. Zacharis, Renascent India: From Rammohan Roy to Mohandas Gandhi. London: George Allen & Unwin LTD, 1933. 3. Hervey D. Griswold, Insights into Modern Hinduism. New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1934. 4. George Macmunn, The Religions and Hidden Cults of India. London: Sampson Low, Marston & Co. 1931. 5. John Campbell Oman, Cults, Customs and Superstitions of India. Philadelphia: George W. Jacobs & Co. 1909. 6. Sangat Singh, The Sikhs in History. New Delhi: Uncommon Books, 1996. 7. Lala Rajpat Rai, The Arya Samaj, An account of its Aims, Doctrine and Activities with a Biographical Sketch of the Founder, London, New York: Longmans, Green and co., 1915. 8. Bawa Chhajju Singh, Life and Teachings of Swami Dayananda, New Delhi: Jan Gy¯an Prak¯ashan, 1971; first edition in 1903. 9. Kenneth W. Jones, Arya Dharm: Hindu Consciousness in 19th Century Punjab. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1976. 10. J.E. Llewellyn, Arya Samaj As a Fundamentalist Movement: A Study In Comparative Fundamentalism . New Delhi: Manohar Publishers, 1993 11. Bhai Kahan Singh, Sikhs: We Are Not Hindus.

    Article By

    – G.B. Singh-

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      • Dear Tanveer !

        I was born in Pakistan & still living there I have heard and I have seen among hundreds of sunnies and shias muslims that I know Sunnies really abuse Shias at that extreme that they don’t share their water, food even they don’t share their rituals and prayers places like Mosques in Pakistan but I don’t know how they live in India. They have different mostques to have daily prayers in locality in Pakistan. They hate so much with one another like deadly cats and dogs fighting ready to kill each other.

        Sunnies say, we don’t believe the Quran one Shia believes in.

        Shias claim Ali was actually prophet of Elah(Allah) not Mohammed (But we Vedic People claim that Allah is a corrupted name of Vedic Mother odess whom you worship as ALLAH a male character is a first blender mistake bein done by all Muslims Ummah) now you can see where Islam there is, how will you justify which one of them is real Islam, please correct your notions first about it. Remember there were 360 idols in Kaaba which prove it was a part of Vedic Culture or Hinduism which was deliberately hijacked by Mohammed and destroyed and also recently it has been proved that Hinduism had ever been in Arabia thousands years of ao because Murti of Lord Ganayshya has also been excavated & found in Qatar and Qatar is in Arabia.

        Many of Shias religious treatises and literatures don’t support Quran & Hadiths of what Prophet Mohammed said and did and so what Sunnies vise versa.

        Even Muslims have much more difficult unavoidable disputes of Sects or you can say feelings of inferiority and superiority among all Muslims.

        Sunny
        Shia
        Wahabi
        Devbandi
        Brahlvi

        Above are few of sects I have experienced in Pakistan they have a Greater conflict wtih one another.

        Moreover, We being a Bhagat(devotee) of Ram, never curse over a Bhagat of Krsna
        We bein Vedic people or Hindus never stop any other Hindus not to follow Shiva or not to follow Vishnu. Don’t you think livin in India that they consider all forms in one formless Eshwara/od. Krsna devotee never bombards over a Rama devotee or Krsna temple is never destroyed by the followers of Rama temples in India this is our vedic culture’s education and knowlede that we even don’t kill an ant. Because ant has no dharm but we know the dharma an ant possess is actually the same natural Vedic Sanatana Dharma an Eternal Universla Laws

        Most prominent is that many people at the present realized that an original Saudi never accepts a person who are out of original Arabs or Biddu. They still call all Indian Muslims a Hindi Muslims. They never accept you from their hearts even after Quran mentions no wahabi is superior to ajami and no ajami is superior to wahabi all are equal then why still original arabs behave like that?. Please answer.

        to be continued

        Jai Sri Krsna OM, peace peace peace,
        B/rds,
        Jay Maheshwary from Pakistan.

    • @Article for G B Singh

      Firstly, some corrections in this gentlemen’s understanding of vedas. Vedas clearly state that there are two classes of man-Arya and Dasyu. Arya are noble, learned and righteous and the reverse is Dasyu. There is no mention of creed, race etc. On sudras, a society, a group of people would be ignorant and they are hence, considered anarya. Uneducated is meaning of anarya and they are sudras. Its is mentioned it satyaprakash, the society is divided into four including sudras with no distinction. Dayanand also shares, the sudras should be given opportunity to read vedas as vedas states so. Regarding rakshas, they are people who attack human dwellings and those who eat raw flesh, refer, Rigveda 7.104.24. In a way, a rakshas could be found in any part of world, including India or Arya varta. Due to this reason, Ravana even though a well educated person, supported his family to act like rakshas. Hence, Rama, Ravana fight is known as arya and rakshas. Thus, the post which am replying has biased understanding of society and still trying to prove the aryan invasion theory which is just a myth. Coming to homa or yajna. Yajna’s one meaning is to clean the environment. It certainly, helps to purify the air and clean the impurities. Homa or Agnihotra is a oxidation process and the air molecules spreads purification. There is no secret when this is done in open, the air molecules can spread as far you want rather than confine it in a room. Due to this reason, its preferred in an open space. It doesn’t create the smoke which Mr G B singh is sharing if he has ever done a homa properly. Now, no one also stops to do homa in room. Its due to this reason, many in hindu homes today, do homa in auspicious day like house opening ceremony etc, yajna at home to purify the home. So, oxidation of air by Vedic ways of agnihotra is one way to purify air. Vedas meaning of clean environment is not restricted to agnihotra. Today, green house effect happens, we use gas for vehicles. If we use bio gas or electric…

  • [email protected] oldest books on earth, instead, are the most scientific texts available to humanity.
    EVERYTHING WHICH IS OLD,DOESN’T MEAN IT IS RIGHT –A LOGICAL PERSON AND HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF SENSE WILL NOT MAKE SUCH KIND OF STATEMENT-
    THAT IS RIGHT WHICH IS AUTHENTIC,FEASIBLE

    REGARDNG SCIENTIFIC TEXTS, VEDAS CAN CONTAIN BECAUSE ALLAH SAYS IN EVERY AGE A BOOK WS REVEALED AND A PROPHET SENTChapter 13,Verse38&Ch-35-24

    AS SOON AS THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS CORRUPTED A NEW MESSAGE WAS SENT AND A NEW PROPHET & EVERY TRIBE A PROPHET WAS SENT– SO THAT U CANNOT DENY ON THE DATE OF JUDGEMENT THAT NO SIGN CAME TO US–BUT FOR PENNY PERSONAL GAINS THE SCRIPTURES WAS CHANGED AND SO THERE ARE ERRORS & ALSO THE ADVENT OF THE LAST PROPHET WAS ALSO TOLD BEFORE HAND IN ALL SCRIPTURES,

    IT’S U’R DUTY TO FIND THE TRUTH- WE CAN ONLY WARN U.

    BUT VEDAS ARE NOT PRESEVED IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM—WHAT ABOUT THE SCIENTIFIC ERRORS,CASTE SYSTEM,PORNOGRAPHY,STATUS OF WOMEN,ETC—CAN WE THIS ATTRIBUTE TO GOD.

    AND U U’R SELF AGREED THAT THERE ARE SCIENTIFIC ERRORS AND INNUMEREABLE CONTRADICTIONS.—FEW ARE QUOTED BELOW

      • The Vedas are in it’s original form. This is a fact, denying this is denying the work of many scholars who have proven that the Vedas are, indeed, unchangable.

        Vedas has no scientific errors, no caste system, pornography or any discrimination towards women. Why is it that when you make such ludicrous claims, you never quote from the Vedas to support your claims? Here’s a challenge, which should be simple if you’re speaking the truth, show us where in the Vedas scientific errors, caste systems, pornography (really, this is so silly that it’s funny) and discrimination towards women is spoken of. Oh and use the Arya Samaj translations.

        How do you claim that Agniveer admitted that the Vedas has ‘SCIENTIFIC ERRORS AND INNUMEREABLE CONTRADICTIONS’, when he claims the exact opposite? Agniveer has always said that the Vedas are perfect, free of ‘scientific errors and innumerable contradictions’, and this is verifiable by anyone with. I’ve seen this tactic used by many Muslims I’ve come to educate, mostly on YouTube, and to be quite honest, it’s utterly ineffective.

    • there is no scientific errors…and there is know caste system in describe and if u consider kamasutra as a prat of ur knowledge please update u knowledge…and cntradictions are many in ur qurans….go through it thouroughly if u have not…y u people kill animal and eat is it a kind of hinsa
      and if u talk about caste system what would u say to ur 73 subcastes or whatever u call it……and y ur revelations are not coming in these years….kya ab aapke verse corrupt nahi ho rahe kya sab sacche muslmaan hi bacche hai duniya main isiliye aaps main lad ma rahe hain sab……for ex PAKISTAN not a single hindu family lives there all are muslims y u people killing around your brothers only and saying i right is ur allah not capable enough to give punishment to the people who abuses him…….aneways we can understand its not ur fault it is fault of ur religion which u r follwing which allows u to be ignorant always try to prove quran is the best nd it is always forcefully….dont bother us

  • Women in Hinduism
    Women’s intellect hath little weight:
    “Indra himself hath said, The mind of woman brooks not discipline, Her intellect hath little weight.” [Rig-Veda 8:33:17]
    Women are powerless and they have no inheritance. They are even worse than bad man:
    “Women are powerless, have no inheritance, and speak more humbly than even a bad man.” [Krsna Yajur-Veda Taittiriya Samhita 6:5:8:2]
    There can be no lasting friendship with women. Their hearts are like hyenas’:
    “With women there can be no lasting friendship: hearts of hyenas are the hearts of women.” [Rig-Veda 10:95:15]
    Women should beget sons, not daughter:
    “Almighty God, you have created this womb. Women may be born somewhere else but sons should be born from this womb” [Atharva-Veda 6:11:3]
    “O Husband protect the son to be born. Do not make him a women.” [Atharva-Veda 2:3:23]
    Widow burning (Sati):
    “Let these unwidowed dames with noble husbands adorn themselves with fragrant balm and unguent. Decked with fair jewels, tearless, free from sorrow, first let the dames go up to where he lieth. Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman: come, he is lifeless by whose side thou liest. Wifehood with this thy husband was thy portion, who took thy hand and wooed thee as a lover.” [Rig-Veda 10:18:7-8]
    Yajur Ved (Taitriya Sanhita)’m- “Womns code says that the women are withouth energy. They should not get a share in property. Even to the wicked they speak in feeble manner” – Yajur Ved 6/5/8/2
    Shatpath Puran, preachings of the ‘Yajur Veda’ clubs women, ‘shudras’ (untouchables), doga, crows together and says falsehood, sin and gloom remain integrated in them. (14/1/1/31)
    HEAD SHAVED
    If the women was not remarried, then her head was shaved. This is evident from Atharva Veda (14/2/60).

    THERE IS MANY MORE BUT THIS IS ENOUGH—WHATEVER IS STATED FROM THE VEDAS WHICH U BELIEVE AS A WORD OF GOD & NOT WHICH OTHER PERSON,PERSONALITY SPEAKS,–I LIKE TO MAKE STATEMENTS ON THE BASE ON AUTHENTICITY NOT WHICH AS LOOPHOLES LIKE U.

    • @truefriend111111 : seems you are new to this site, the issues you are rising have been already clarified and i dont thing anyone will respond to your comments here as this is just copy paste from IRF and equivalent sites/ Griffith translations, please refer to http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/
      or by the veda from vedicbooks.com,
      so please please please dont copy paste and make the site bulky with useless info.

      • @ आर्यव्रतस्थ:

        Reply back if you know the answers for this…

        1. Whether a man can be punished as per vedas for his bad deeds…???
        2. Why one life is not enough for living in this world…???

      • @SSS :well here is my try to explain in short

        1) A man’s Karma itself decides his punishment/reward there is no faith necessary in any scripture (but scripture may be required for guidence), There is no intervention from anyone, Eshwar created the law of Karma which is as eternal as the Soul,creation and Eshwar, there is no escape from it.

        2)one has to understand that Soul and a being(body) are two different things.lifetimes are given to a soul to perform good Karma vis the body to nullify its bindings and attatin proximity to Eshwar, if one meditates on Eshwar and leveas behind all other attachements only one lifetime may be enough,but Eshwar is so kind and loving that he gives multiple chances to a being to take his sould to the eternal bliss, unlike the concept of ” if you fail this time then you will burn in hell fire for eternity.”

      • @SSS : To explain to someone of your intelligence
        if someone hits his head on a wall(suppose its a bad karma ) , no one will come to give punishment, the person’s karma of hitting the wall itself will decied his punishment (in this case laws of newton)

      • i HAD ALSO GONE THROUGH THE TRANSLATION OF DAYANAND

        WE HAVE MANY MORE TRANSLATION BY U’R SCHOLRS THAT TOO WORD TO WORD

        IF MY CLAIM IS WRONG THEN PROOVE FROM U’R OWN TRANSLATION WITH WORD TO WORD

        AND IF U WANT TO ASK ANYTHING ABOUT QURAN– I WILL EXPLAIN U IN DETAIL–I WILL NOT TELL U TO REFER THAT TRANSLATION OR THAT-I EXPLAIN U IN DETAIL

        BECAUSE I WILL NOT RUN BY TELLING THAT TRANSLATION IS WRONG OR SOMEWHAT LIKETHAT

        II’LL TELL WHERE IT IS WRONG WHY IT IS WRONG–NOT JUST THAT TRANSLATION IR WRONG

        IF TRANSLATION IS WRONG THEN PROOVE ALL THE CLAIMS BY ME AS FALSE WORD TO WORD

      • TRUEFRIEND111 THEY DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO GIVE THE FULL TRANSLATION OF VEDAS. THEY JUST KNOW HOW TO CONFUSE AND CREATE ENIMITY BETWEEN DIFFERENT GROUPS. THERE ARE LOT MORE THINGS IN OTHER SCRIPTURE. IF WE OPEN THAT THEN THEY WILL RUN FOR COVER.
        JUST READ THE FOLLWING QUOTES NO.17 SU13 DUND KE DWARA SHATRU KE AANKHO KO CHED KAR ANEK KLESHO KE SAATH BHASM KARKE SHIGRA NAASH KAR DENA CHAHIYE KE PHIR ANY A PURUSH DHUST KARMM NA KARNE PAYE.

        HAD THIS BEING MENTIONED IN QURAN, THEY WOULD HAVE FLOODED THE ENTIRE WEB SITE WITH MESSAGES.

      • @Tanveer : why do you have to rely on others to give meanings to you if you really want to know what is there buy veda from vedicbooks.com and stop complaining. quote no 17 and su 13 who is this verse directed to ? is it to the followers of Dharma(general people) or is a prayer to eshwar or is it a direction to the king of the lands?

      • I am not relying on other. Since you claim to be the master of vedas with good translation and master of Quran with misrepresentation, I m asking you people to give the translation. ha ha ha now you are asking everything about the verse, to whom it was directed, to the followers of dharma etc etc but in Quran you just jump to conclusion. There you never think to whom the verse was directed, in which period it was revealed and what was its purpose. Could you please explain me why.

      • Why skirt about the issue? If you had understood completely the verse you quoted, you should be able to answer what आर्यव्रतस्थ asked, which you have failed to do.

      • @Tanveer : Now you are souding bored 🙂 no one here is the master of the veda or the quran, we only refere the the authentic translation ;and regarding the period and purpose wrt Veda is always constant and is for entire humanity unlike some other dogmatic scriptures.

      • It happens when you dont have any answer, it wil definately bore you.
        Explain this no.10 DUND HI SAB PRAJA PAR SHASAN RAKHTA HAI, DUND HI SAB AOR SE RAKSHA KARTA HAI, DAND HI SOTE HUE KO JAGATA HAI, VIDVAN LOG DUND KO DHARM MANTE HAI.
        IMAGINE PUNISHMENT BEING GIVEN THE STANDARD OF RELIGION.

      • Very good aryavratst, the moment I quote something from Vedas you dont get the quotes. Everyone of you start asking which vedas which translation which no. ha ha ha ha, it means that you yourself have not read the vedas of aryasamaj. Just read my post above I have clearly mentioned go to the site and cllick on no.10 and read the full text. why are yo asking again and again?

      • @Tanveer: Now you are wasting time, i checked in Rik page 10 its not there, so now either you tell me where exactly it is or please don’t bother to reply

      • Sorry I forgot that it is not Quran. Had it been Quran you would have found it easily. Please click no.10 under the heading Dund it is clearly mentioned. Are you not finding it or are you just ducking my question. Please try a little harder you will defintely find it because I have myself checked it again.
        You dont know vedas and you are taking about Quran!!!

      • Brother आर्यव्रतस्थ,
        Give Brother Tanveer some time. He had to reconvert to Islam again under the pressure of IRF people. But soon, he will learn the four names of Vedas etc.

      • @TANVEER
        IT’S TRUE

        THEY ARE HAVING HALF KNOWLEDGE—-AND HALF KNOWLEDGE IS ALWAYS DANGEROUS.

        I SUGGEST THEM TO READ KALKI PURAN AND FOUND OUT WHO IS THE KALKI AVTAAR–BEFORE DEATH SEIZES THEM

    • truefriend of zakir dumber
      WARNING- IF YOU REPEAT SUCH VULGAR WORDS IN THE NAME OF VEDAS AGAIN, I WILL TEAR APART QURAN AND MUHAMMAD LIKE ANYTHING.

      Quran [2:1] says that Allah is not one!
      Quran [13:1] says that Muhammad is not the final Rasul!
      Quran [29:1] says that Quran is the work of Satan and not Allah!
      Quran [1:1] says dont follow impotent Muhammad.
      Quran [1:2] says that all Muslims will go to hell.
      Quran [1:3] says that Muhammad will be the first man to enter the hell.
      Quran [1:4] says that Allah put seal in the heart of Muhammad so that he could not understand the truth and Allah made him impotent.
      Quran [1:5] ….

      [TRANSLATED BY VAJRA AT http://agniveer.com/570/faq-on-vedas/#comment-9485%5D

      Incest in Islam:

      Adam and Eve was a single pair. They fathered many children and those children, who were brothers and sisters mutually, married each other! So all Muslims are the result of incest!

      • @VAJRA
        Frustration speaks—DON’T FRUSTRATE

        REPLY
        Quran [2:1] says that Allah is not one!
        ANSWER:- ARABIC WILL BE POSTED IN TRANSLITERATION FORM
        CH2 V-1-‘Alif-Lām-Mīm-TRANSLITERATION

        THE MEANING OF THE VERSES IS NOT TRANSLATED BY ANYONE & THESE ARE THE ALPHABETS IN ARBIC FOR e.g. IN ENGLISH SUCH AS A,B,C & NOT AN WORD.
        MAY BE U HAVE GOT THE TRANSLATION FROM DAYANAND SARASWATI.

        Quran [13:1] says that Muhammad is not the final Rasul!
        ANSWER:- CH-13 V-1- These are the signs (or verses) of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.

        WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSE SAY THAT THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) IS NOT THE FINAL RASOOL, THE VERSE DOESN’T TALK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.

        HE IS THE LAST PROPHET IT IS MENTIONED IN-Al-Ahzab, Chapter33 Verse40 -Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the SEAL of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

        Quran [29:1] says that Quran is the work of Satan and not Allah!
        ANSWER:- ‘Alif-Lām-Mīm-TRANSLITERATION
        THE MEANING OF THE VERSES IS NOT TRANSLATED BY ANYONE & THESE ARE THE ALPHABETS IN ARBIC FOR e.g. IN ENGLISH SUCH AS A,B,C & NOT AN WORD.
        MAY BE U HAVE GOT THE TRANSLATION FROM DAYANAND SARASWATI.

        Quran [1:1] says dont follow impotent Muhammad.
        ANSWER:-
        CH-1 V-1(1) In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
        WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSE SAY THIS,NOWHERE THE VERSE DOES TALK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.

        Quran [1:2] says that all Muslims will go to hell.—
        ANSWER:- Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;-
        READ WHAT THE VEDAS SAY SOEWHAT SIMILAR IN RIGVED 5-81-1
        WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSE SAY THIS,NOWHERE THE VERSE DOES TALK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.

        Quran [1:3] says that Muhammad will be the first man to enter the hell.
        ANSWER:- Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
        WHERE DOES THE ABOVE VERSE SAY THIS,NOWHERE THE VERSE DOES TALK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.

        Quran [1:4] says that Allah put seal in the heart of Muhammad so that he could not understand the truth and Allah made him impotent.
        ANSWER:- Master of the Day of Judgment.

        FRUSTRATION AND FALSE PREACHING FAILS

        QURAN SAYS IN CH-17 V81- (81) And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”

      • truefriend of zakir dumber
        I gave you translation of the above verses from a great Islamic scholar Vajra. So check your translation again.

      • @ Vajra “FRUSTRATION AND FALSE PREACHING FAILS” :

        Failures are for those who preach the false beliefs

  • @[email protected]
    Agniveer also commented
    • If you give me the link, I can elaborate more. Remember – the only purposeful way of living passes through Vedas. Some may claim that this is a dogmatic statement. However this is farthest from truth.
    ANSWER:-IF ACCORDING TO U WE ACCEPT THAT THE ONLY PURPOSEFUL WAY OF LIFE IS THROUGH VEDAS, THEN CAN U ELABORATE THE FOLLOWING-U TALK ABOUT VEDAS I’M TELLING U ABOUT VEDAS
    CASTE SYSTEM-WHATEVER U TRY TO QUOTE GOOD STATEMENTS FROM THE VEDAS BUT U CANNOT HIDE THE TRUTH OF THE VEDAS
    Rg Veda mentions Sudra and Vaisya each and that too at a very late period in MandalX-10-90-12,
    Yajur Veda Chapter 31 – Verse 11 & RIGVEDAbK10-XC-12—CONFIRMING Manu Law
    The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rajanya made. His thighs became the Vaishiya, from his feet the Shudra was produced.
    “If in the process of negotiating betrothal there are first ten suitors of the non-Brahmana varna for a woman (the marriageable girl), all of them lose their claims of marriage and, only the Brahmin, the learned one, if he grasps her hand would be her husband and only he. Not even the man of Ksatriya varna and not even the man of Vaisya varna but only the Brahmin is the husband of the bride in such cases of claimants of betrothal, and the sun, as it appears, revealing this fact to the people of five classes (4 varnas and the fifth avarna) rises up.” – Atharva Veda 5:17:8-9.

    • truefriend of zakir dumber
      WARNING- IF YOU REPEAT SUCH VULGAR WORDS IN THE NAME OF VEDAS AGAIN, I WILL TEAR APART QURAN AND MUHAMMAD LIKE ANYTHING.

      Quran [2:1] says that Allah is not one!
      Quran [13:1] says that Muhammad is not the final Rasul!
      Quran [29:1] says that Quran is the work of Satan and not Allah!
      Quran [1:1] says dont follow impotent Muhammad.
      Quran [1:2] says that all Muslims will go to hell
      Quran [1:3] says that Muhammad will be the first man to enter the hell.
      Quran [1:4] says that Allah put seal in the heart of Muhammad so that he could not understand the truth and Allah made him impotent.
      Quran [1:5] ……

      [TRANSLATED BY VAJRA AT http://agniveer.com/570/faq-on-vedas/#comment-9485%5D

      Incest in Islam:

      Adam and Eve was a single pair. They fathered many children and those children, who were brothers and sisters mutually, married each other! So all Muslims are the result of incest!

      • VAJRA DUMBER, WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY? SAHI BAAT PAR MIRCHI LAGI??? PLEASE TRY TO DEBATE IN A FARI MANNER WITH AUTHENTIC QUOTES. YOU DECLARD YOURSELF A WINNER THAN WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY. ITS A DIFFERENT THING YOU WERE DREAMING.

      • Brother Tanveer
        I know that you have now embraced Vedas and that is why true friend of Zakir dumber replied you as if you were apostate. I understand you would be afraid of IRF now, as their terrorists would be in search for you as they believe in death penalty for apostates! But now you are a warrior of truth, so no need to be afraid. Eeshvar is the protector and above all.

        Congratulations again!

      • ITS SO SAD THAT SINCE YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO ANSWER, YOU HAVE GONE MAD. YOU SEEM TO SEE AND IMAGINE THINGS WHICH DOES NOT EXIST. SUCH A CONDITION IS CALLED HALUCINATION. PLEASE GO AND SEE A PSYCHIATRIST BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. I WILL PRAY TO ALLAH TO CURE YOU QUICKLY.

      • तन्वीरभाई,

        सत्यार्थ प्रकाश के बाद स्वामी दयानंद सरस्वतीके आक्षेपों ने इस्लामी संसारमें एक भूचालसा ला दिया था | इसके बाद मौलाना चकडालवी बताते थे कि स्वर्गकी शराबको मीठा तथा सरस दूध समजना चाहिये | लाहौरी पार्टीके ख्वाजा कमालुद्दिन ने खुतवा कोन्फेरेंसमें फरमाया था कि सचमुच कुरानमें उद्यानों, व्रुक्षों, दूध, मधु, मेवे और अन्य वस्तुओंका वर्णन है, परंतु यह केवल आलंकारिक वर्णन है | सोचलो, जब स्वामीजीने सारे इस्लाममें तरखाट मचा दिया था तो क्या, उस राह्पर चलनेवाली अग्निवीर टीम इस्लामसे क्या घबरायेगी ?

      • Brother Tanveer
        Seems, IRF people have found you and now they are pressurizing you to reconvert to Islam. Brother, dont worry, just do good deeds and you are the follower of Vedas. Save yourself first, dont get killed by the terrorists. There is no eternal hell in our Dharm.

        all the best..

  • A brief selection of a few points from the
    Scientific Errors in Hindu Scriptures!
    Many more points can be presented but I guess these few points will be
    enough to prove my point.
    Hindus either have to prove these things presented in their sacred
    scriptures or accept that their sacred scriptures have severe scientific
    errors. Vedas, claimed by Hindus to be the most sacred scripture, allege
    that: Sun moves around the earth on a golden chariot with his 7 horses.
    Vedas also allege that The Bull has supported the sky. For more continue
    reading below.
    1. Vedas say Earth is static!
    According to Vedas, the earth is static and this statement is repeated
    several times. The following are some of the examples:
    Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra. (Rig Ved
    2/12/12)
    The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)
    Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms
    (Atarv Ved 12/1/11)
    Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)
    2
    2. Vedas say Sun moves around the earth on a golden
    chariot with his 7 horses
    As the Veds Claim that the earth is static and so they tried to prove that the
    sun moves around the earth. The following statement from the rig Ved tries
    to clarify it:
    1. “Sun is full of light and knows all the human beings, so his horses take
    him to sky to look at the world” (Rig Ved 1/50/1)
    2. “O, Bright sun, a chariot named harit with seven horses takes you to sky”
    (Rig Ved 1/50/8)
    3. “O, man, the sun who is most attractive, takes round of the earth, on his
    golden chariot through the sky and removes the darkness of the earth”
    (Yajur Ved 33/43)
    3. Vedas say The Bull has supported the Sky
    “The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 4: 30
    “The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 14:5
    4. Puranas say Earth is Flat
    NARASINGA PURANA – Page 169 – Abithana Sinthamani – says that the earth
    is flat. Today it has been proved beyond doubt by the scientists that the
    earth is round.
    5. Vishnu Purana – another astrological error
    VISHNU PURANA says that sun is 800,000 miles and moon is 2,200,000
    miles away from the earth respectively. Astronomy has now proved that the
    moon is nearer to the earth, i.e. 240,000 miles and that the sun is
    93,000,000 miles away from the earth.
    3
    6. Markandeya Purana – gives completely wrong area
    of the earth
    MARKANDEYA PURANA says that the earth has an area of 4,000,000,000
    square miles. According to astronomy, it is only 190,700,000 square miles.
    7. Vedas / Puranas recommend looking directly into
    the sun with naked eye
    The Vedas and Puranas say that all Hindus must pray to the sun god SURYA,
    and that if you look at the sun daily every morning with your naked eyes,
    your sight will improve. Accordingly many Hindus practise this act of
    worship; but instead of their eyesight improving, India is the country that
    has the most blind people in the world (2.5 million blind people and 9
    million with corneal blindness). There is no scientific truth in sun worship,
    and on the contrary the scientist and doctors advise everyone not to look at
    the sun directly with the naked eye. Who is telling us the truth, the
    Scientists or the Hindu scriptures? You be the judge!
    8. Vedas say cow is holy and should be worshipped.
    (Brahmins add that cow dung ash has medicinal
    value)
    The Vedas say that the cow is holy and should be worshipped. These
    Brahmins also claim that cow dung ash has medicinal value. Samples sent to
    a leading test laboratory in West Germany have proved this to be untrue.
    9. Mt. Meru 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest
    according to the Hindu Scriptures
    Arya texts of a comparatively late period ( 5 century AD ) still maintain a
    belief in the fictional Vedic Mt. Meru. It is supposed to be one hundred
    thousand times higher than Mt. Everest! Regarding this mountain, the
    Matsya Purana says,
    4
    “It [Mt Meru] is golden and shining like fire. The colour of the eastern side
    is white like the colour of Brahmans, that of the northern side is red like the
    that of Kshatriyas, the southern is yellow like that of Vaishyas, the western
    is black like the colour of Sudras. It is 86000 yojana high, and 16000 of
    these lie in the earth. Each of the 4 sids has 34000 yojanas … There are
    beautiful golden houses inhabited by spiritual beings, the Devas, by the
    singers the Gandharvas and their harlots the Apsaras. Also Asuas, Daityas
    and Rakshasas are living in it. ” — [ Matsya Pur. quoted in al-B. i.247 ]
    In general, 1 yojana = 8 miles = 32000 yards and 1 kroh = 1/2 yojana [ al-
    B i.167 ]. Thus Mt. Meru would be 8×86,000 = 704,000 miles high. Mt.
    Everest, by comparison, is only 29,000 ft., or less than 6 miles, high. Hence
    Mt. Meru is 100,000 times higher than Mt. Everest !
    The Kurma Purana has this to say on this topic,
    ” Earth, composed of seven continents, together with the oceans extends
    500,000,000 yojanas across. Holy Jambudvipa lies in the middle of all the
    continents; in its center is said to be lofty Mt. Meru, bright as gold. Its
    height is 84,000 yojanas, and it extends 16,000 yojanas below the earth; its
    width at the top is 32,000 yojanas, and its diameter at the base is 16,000
    yojanas.”
    — [ Kurma Purana, quoted in Classical, p. 52 ]
    The impossibly high Mt. Meru is held to be the source of really existing
    rivers in India such as the Sita.

    • truefriend1111
      Read relatively correct translation of Ved Mantras from http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org. Dont quote translations of Griffith or any other or self made. Read the translation by any Rishi only.

      Rest Puranas etc are not worth reading. They are just stories like Quran and hadith, which have no significance in today’s world.

      • @[email protected]
        PORNOGRAPHY IN VEDAS
        Incest : The Father Commits Incest With His DaughterThis is a concept of creation which appears in Rig-Veda and remains through later Hindu mythology. It contains an idea of primeval Incest. Explicitly there is no single hymn which tells this story, but references are scattered around to give a summary of the incestuous event. This story never actually tells the name of the father and the daughter .Let’s read the Rid-Vedic hymns about this incest act of creation.
        From the Rig-Veda 10.61.5-7, 1.71.5 , 1.71.8 , 1.164.33
        When you will look for the Verses 5-7 in Rig-Veda book 10 hymn 61 present online-to hide reality , but truth cannot be hidden as we will be providing you with the translated verses.
        Rig-Veda 10.61.5-7, 1.71.5 , 1.71.8 , 1.164.33
        As his penis was stretched out in eagerness for the act of a man, the manly one pulled back. He drew back again from the maiden, his daughter, that tireless phallus which had been thrust in. As they were in the midst of the very act of union, when the father was satisfying his desire for the younger girl, the two of them left a little of the out-flowing seed shed upon the back of the earth in the womb of good deeds. When the father shed his seed in his own daughter, he split his seed on the earth as he united with her. The benevolent gods created sacred speech and fashioned Rudra Vastospati, the protector of sacred rites….. As Agni made the seed for the great father, heaven , he entered into the womb, having noticed that she was inclined to him. The hunter shot an arrow at him boldly. The god satisfied his lust in his own daughter….As the heat of passion came to the king for his enjoyment, heaven laid aside on the ground the seed that had been spilt. Agni caused to be born the blameless benevolent group of youth and made them great…. Heaven is my father, the engenderer, the navel here. My mother is this wide earth , my close kin , Between these two outstretched bowls is the womb (it is translated as womb literally Vagina-yoni ) in it the father placed his daughter’s embryo. [Translated by Wendy Doniger in her Book Hindu Myths on page 26 )
        Rig Veda 1.116.19 The Ashvisns married Surya and Savitri who is their sister
        Rig Veda 1.91.7 Agni is the son of his father and his sister
        “After the animal is purified by the priest, the principal wife sleeps near the horse and says: ‘O Horse, i extract the semen worth conception and you release the semen worth conception’” – Yajur Veda 23/20.
        The horse and principal wife spread two legs each. Then the Ardhvaryu(priest) orders to cover the oblation place, raise canopy etc. After this, the principal wife of the host pulls penis of the horse and puts it in her vagina and says: “This horse may release semen in me.” -Yajur Veda 23/20.

      • truefriend of zakir dumber
        WARNING- IF YOU REPEAT SUCH VULGAR WORDS IN THE NAME OF VEDAS AGAIN, I WILL TEAR APART QURAN AND MUHAMMAD LIKE ANYTHING.

        Quran [2:1] says that Allah is not one!
        Quran [13:1] says that Muhammad is not the final Rasul!
        Quran [29:1] says that Quran is the work of Satan and not Allah!
        Quran [1:1] says dont follow impotent Muhammad.
        Quran [1:2] says that all Muslims will go to hell.
        Quran [1:3] says that Muhammad will be the first man to enter the hell.
        Quran [1:4] says that Allah put seal in the heart of Muhammad so that he could not understand the truth and Allah made him impotent.
        Quran [1:5] ……

        [TRANSLATED BY VAJRA AT http://agniveer.com/570/faq-on-vedas/#comment-9485%5D

        Incest in Islam:

        Adam and Eve was a single pair. They fathered many children and those children, who were brothers and sisters mutually, married each other! So all Muslims are the result of incest!

  • See Brother Tanveer. I invite u to the IRF Programme to be held on 30OCT,2010 were an open Answer Q&A session is to be conducted by Zakir Naik from 6:30pm to 10pm

    I had gone through u’r website were u remove the comments which speak the truth,use out of context statements to blaspheme and follow u’r own translation of u’r vedas to fulfill u’r statements.

    U can come there and openly challenge Dr.Zakir Naik by stating that u r from Arya Samaj–and ask for an live debate—but the condition is that u should have an large following–may be an debate with u’r Head Guru of u’r samaj.

    And for the various translations of Vedas done by various pandits of u’r own as well as by the foreigners that too word by word u can visit IRF.

    It’s easy to delete comments which speak the truth and to challenge behind the veils–The Guts is to come forward.

    Condition a large following should follow u’r said Guru–and should stick to the basics & authentic sources of both the religion. Not i think or heard or he says, they say,etc

    • //Condition a large following should follow u’r said Guru–and should stick to the basics & authentic sources of both the religion. Not i think or heard or he says, they say,etc//

      prophet Muhammad slogged for 10 years and he could manage only a handful of followers ..would zakir naik hae refused to debate the prophet ?

      Is the discussion on comparative religion a circus show ?

      why can’t he discuss the religion on the internet itself? ..why Truth seeking is to be achieved in a crowd of 10 semi-literate applauders ?

      by the way .. please ask zakir bhai mbbs on 30th oct ….why did allah create you and him?

      • Brother Indian Agnostic,
        This post was not for us! It was for Tanveer!! May be Tanveer goes to IRF people daily to ask for the answers to our questions and now he is threatening them to convert to Vedic Dharm as he is not getting the answers! Congratulations to Agniveer organization for their success!

      • Congratulations to Vajra for success in dreams. I pray to Allah that Vajra brother wakes up from his sleep and face the reality. I would request you Mr.Vajra to go and see all the answers that I have given (if they are not deleted) and judge yourself who is running away and who is not getting the answers.

      • @INDIAN AGNOSTIC
        IN SATYARTH PRAKASH Chapter 8 –YOU SAY- .- What object could He have in not creating it?– Moreover had He not created this world, how could He have been able to award souls their deserts, and how could they have reaped the fruits of their deeds – good and evil – done in the previous cycle of Creation.*

        FIRST OF ALL MY QUESTION IS WHY WERE CREATED IN THE PREVIOUS CYCLE OF CREATION—U DIDN’T ANSWER AND NOWHERE VEDAS SAYS—THE 7 PUNARJANM.
        I WILL START FROM THE A)PURPOSE OF CREATION B)CRITERIA’S TO BE FULFILLED TO GO TO HEAVEN
        A)PURPOSE OF CREATION-ACCORDING TO QURAN
        Al-Kahf, Chapter18 Verse7 -That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may TEST them – as to which of them are best in conduct.

        Taha, Chapter20 Verse31-Nor strain thine eyes in longing for the things We have given for enjoyment to parties of them, the splendour of the life of this world, through which We TEST them: but the provision of thy Lord is better and more enduring.

        Al-Anbiya, Chapter21 Verse35 -Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We TEST you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.

        THIS IS THE TEST FOR THE HEREAFTER EVERYONE HAS GIVEN AN FREE WILL-SO ANY HUMAN BEING CAN ACT AS HE WILLS—BUT HE HAS TO PAY ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.
        BUT PRIOR TO THE TEST IT WAS ASKED TO ALL OF US AND WHO AGREED WERE SENT AS HUMANS,ETC WITH AN COVENANT.
        Al-Araf, Chapter7 Verse172 -When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of ADAM – from their loins – their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): “Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?”- They said: “Yea! We do testify!” (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: “Of this we were never mindful”:
        B)CRITERIA’S TO BE FULFILLED TO GO TO HEAVEN
        CH2- 36-We said: “Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood – for a time.” (38) We said: “Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (39) “But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.”
        IN EVERY AGE A BOOK WAS REVEALED FOR GUIDANCE BY NAME ONLY FOUR ARE MENTIONED IN QURAN- BUT THE QURAN SAYS IN EVERY AGE A BOOK WAS REVEALED.
        We did send apostles before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of an apostle to bring a sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (REVEALED).
        (Ar-Rad, Chapter #13, Verse #38)
        NON-MUSLIM ASKING AN QUESTION
        Sura Al-Baqarah Ch-2-118- Meaning:- Say those without knowledge: “Why speaketh not Allah unto us? or why cometh not unto us a Sign?” So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike. We have indeed made clear the Signs unto any people who hold firmly to Faith (in their hearts).
        TO EVERY TRIBE AN WARNER WAS SENT.—ACCORDING TO AN HADITH OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) THERE WERE 124000 PROPHET SENT ON THE FACE OF EARTH-SO NO ONE CAN DENY ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY THAT NO SIGN CAME TO US.—BUT BY NAME ONLY 25 PROPHET ARE MENTIONED IN QURAN.
        Sura Fatir Ch-35-24 Verily We have sent thee(Prophet Muhammad) in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).
        Sura Ar-Rad Ch-13-V-7 Meaning:- And the Unbelievers say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.
        IN ORDER TO GO TO HEAVEN WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE SCRIPTURE REVEALED AT OUR TIME AND HAS TO FOLLOW THE PROPHET OF OUR TIME.
        BUT THE PROPHETS BEFORE WERE SENT ONLY TO THEIR RESPECTIVE TRIBES AND NOT TO THE WHOLE HUMANKIND—FOR e.g.-JESUS(PBUH) WAS SENT ONLY TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL .
        It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 10, Verse No. 5 and 6, Jesus Christ peace be upon him tells his disciples… ‘Go ye not in the way of the Gentiles.’ Who are the Gentiles?The Non-Jews, the Hindus, the Muslims ‘But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ Jesus Christ peace be upon him said in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 24… ‘I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ So Jesus Christ and the Bible, were only meant for the children of Isreal.

        But the Qur’an was not meant only for the Arabs of that time – Qur’an is not meant only for the Muslims. The Qur’an is meant for the whole of humanity, and it is meant to be for eternity. Qur’an says in Surah Ibrahim, Ch. 14, Verse. 52, in Surah Baqarah Ch. No. 2, Verse 185, and Surah Zumar Ch. 39, Verses. 41, that the Qur’an is meant for the whole of human kind. And Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him, was not sent only for the Muslims or the Arabs. Allah says in the Qur’an in Surah Ambiya Ch. No. 21, Verse No. 107-That ‘We have send thee as a mercy, as a guidance, to the whole of humankind.’
        BUT AS PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) WAS THE LAST PROPHET IN ORDER TO GO TO HEAVEN EVERYONE HAS TO FOLLOW THE QURAN AND FOLLOW HIS TEACHINGS AND ISMENTIONED IN U’R HINDU SCRIPTURES TOO

      • true friend of zakir
        Visit http://agniveer.com/1985/why-did-god-create-us/. Your questions regarding creation have already been answered there.

        Regarding the purpose of creation of Allah, TEST comes later. First question is, why was examinee created? Was it to write test? Then why to take test?

        Was/is not Allah confident about His own creature so that He needs to take test? What about Lohe Mehfooz in which marks have been already given to the examinee, who has not even come into existence yet!

    • truefriend of Zakir Naik
      One of your official Najeeb Muhammad came here few times back and wrote that IRF will talk only about Quran and not Ahadith! What happened to Sahih Hadith? Are they no longer Sahih?

      And as Arya ji cleared to Najeeb that Zakir Naik will have to give the aptitude test before we can appoint someone to debate him. If he could not pass it, he will be given the chance again after 3 months so that he can come up with better preparation. You see, we have our own criteria for judging one’s capabilities and you have yours!

      • WHAT IS AN HADITH–IT IS AN BOOK OF COLLECTION OF HADITHS

        AMONG THEM ARE SOME SAHIH SOME WEAK –THE WHOLE BOOK IS NOT SAHIH

        U ONLY BARK FROM ON THE SITES –THAT HE REFUSED, THEY REFUSED– IF U CANNOT REFUTE ON THE SITE WHAT WILL U REFUTE IN PUBLIC

        FIRST OF ALL REFUTE MY POINTS WITH U’R OWN TRANSLATION–AND TELL AGNIVEER TO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS.

    • Mr.truefriend. I dont know which site are you talking about. I dont have any website. Please let me know which site are you talking about.

  • @Tanveer, You have not answered my previous question. When your ‘quotes’ have already been debunked by Totagoto, why must you repeat the same thing over and over? Is it some sort of Jihadi technique?

    You’re trying to link a social problem that emerged in the near past to the Vedas which is the oldest text there is? You do realise that there was no caste system during the Vedic period and that there is no caste system in the Vedas, yes?

    You say the Shias and Sunni sects are ‘as per people’. Then why do they each have different teachings, all of which are derived from different versions of the Quran?

    You claim there are no sects, yet by making such a claim you’re defying the very definition of the term ‘sect’.

    Shias and Sunnis have no problem coexisting eh? Hmm, perhaps the issues in Iraq are all delusions then? Maybe I’m delusional too when I see Shias washing their mosques if a Sunni places foot in them?

    Your claims, while mildly humourous, are far from the truth.

    • Mr 108 my question has not been answered. Just by writing a lengthy answer and confusing the readers doesnt make wrong practice a righf one. Why dont you go and tell brahmin brothers to mix with the shrudras. Maybe, then you wont be in a position to write in this forum because of the thrashing that you will get. There might be some problem between shia and sunni but that doesnt mean that every shia or sunni is fighting with each other. Your so called social problem is linked to your own religion.

      The main point is what does Quran or Vedas have taught us. when it is clearly mentioned about the caste system then there is no need to give explanation. You are being defeated at every step. The proof is that when a verse is mentioned in Quran you take it literally but if something is mentioned in vedas such as caste system then you give such a lengthy explanation, Why dont you interpret the Quran just as you do the vedas.

      There is no different version of Quran. Its upto you, if you want you can say there are 100 versions. We beleive in only one Quran.

      • So since you claim that a mere social problem is linked to the Vedas, provide proof to support your claim. Quote from the Vedas where it speaks of a discriminatory caste system (or a caste system at all, for that matter). Show us where in the Vedas ‘it is clearly mentioned about the caste system’.

        There are different versions of the Quran, this is simply a fact. You believe in one Quran, the Quran of your sect. Muslims of other sects believe in different Qurans.

      • You want the proof then give me the translation of vedas. Till now nobody on this website has provided me with the translation. All I got was the llink where there are number of books available but not the translation. They gave me the site name but it contains only the translation of atharvaved and that too not a full one. If you have the guts give me the full translation of all the vedas with the name of the author.
        RIGVED BOOK NO. 10 HYMN NO.10C STATES BRAHMA WAS HIS MOUTH, OF HIS HANDS RAJANYE MADE, HIS THIGHS BECAME THE VAISYA, AND FROM THE FEET SHUDRA WAS MADE.

        NO.17 SU 12 JO MANUSHYA VEDO KE SARVOPKARI AGYAO KA ULLANGHAN KARE USE SHOORVEER PURUSH YOGYA DUND DE. WO DURACHARI PARMESHWAR KE NYAY VYAVASTHA SE BHI KUST BHOGTA HAI.

      • You’ve been linked to the Arya Samaj website numerous times, which I can confirm has the proper translations of all the Vedas.

        Refer to the following site:

        http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/

        Honestly, do yourself a favour and read up the proper translations, the comments you and truefriend are making are so far from the truth that it’s funny.

      • I have given you the quote numbers please go and check yourself then argue. As I told you before the webstie doesn not contain the translation of all the four vedas.

      • Tanveer
        These are the quote numbers “NO.17 SU 12”, which you give! Seems it is a code instead of quote number, which is to be decoded first in order to understand what did you refer to! Where is the Veda’s name? Where is the Mandal, chapter, and sukta numbers? You even dont know the names of Vedas and you want to question it!

      • Yes it does.

        Your argument has already been responded to by आर्यव्रतस्थ:

        “quote no 17 and su 13 who is this verse directed to ? is it to the followers of Dharma(general people) or is a prayer to eshwar or is it a direction to the king of the lands?”

        to which you are yet to respond.

        But I will tell you this, Vedas are not texts which can simply be read just like that and understood to the full extent. Agniveerji sums it up nicely in this very article, and I quote:

        “To read VEDAS, one needs to master the language of VEDAS – Sanskrit. In its absence, one can study the translations. However study of translations without a framework would be of little help. Further the translations by western scholars are to be rejected outrightly.

        To understand VEDAS, not only language is necessary, one needs to also master certain other subjects. But even more important is an analytical bent of mind and a Yogic approach. What is meant by Yogic approach is mastery over senses and mind.

        Since the concepts of VEDAS are very subtle, a disturbed mind or a mind indulged in petty issues and enjoyments of the world can make neither head or tail out of it.

        This is same as we would say that it is useless for an uneducated drunkard to try to read Einstein’s Theory of Relativity.

        Thus, simultaneous practice of mind discipline and an analytical attitude are necessary to start exploring the VEDAS.

        Beyond that, availability of an expert teacher is extremely useful. But in absence of that as well, one can start with study of Satyarth Prakash (LIght of Truth) and Introduction to Vedas by Swami Dayanand Saraswati to understand the basic framework. In today’s context, they would be very critical to start exploration of VEDAS.

        However, as said earlier, these too should be read with a Yogic and analytical bent of mind. This is not very difficult or esoteric. It simply means shutting oneself off from distractions and studying with open-minded focus – the way we study any serious subject.”

  • 10 points clarification and educating you jokers:

    1) A non muslim cannot be considered as good if he do not accpet the
    truth and stay away from irrationale religion like idol
    worshipping,kamasutra,pornography ,brothels…

    2)Well a muslim who do wrong things will go to hell not heaven bt as
    per your religion there is no hell that means those muslims who rape
    and cheat there is no punishment..No wonder you hindus have legalised
    porn,brothels ,dance bar ,homosexuality in India..

    3)In Islam men and women are equal but not identical..You cannot
    expect men to give birth ..

    4)Well do not have much knowledge on how and why Jaziya was
    imposed.will reply in detail later…

    5)Quran is Gods word and we are ordinary human beings there can be
    mistranslation ..

    6)Well i have attached verses from quran which will answer all your
    doubts on killing of children

    7)There is death punishment for Gaddari, if any muslim converts to
    other religion without giving sensible reason and maligns Islam neds
    to be punished that is the law in every country wahts new??

    8)Any muslim who dod all haraam things is unislamic and will be
    punished ; but as per your religion there is no hell so who will
    punish all the moghuls who did wrong things if they did…

    9) Doing war with a non muslim just becoz they are non muslim is
    agians teaching of Islam.Best example was uncle of Muhammd was a non
    believer till he died and Muhammad did not kiled him or abused him but
    prayed to Allah to give him hidaya.
    .
    10) Non muslim cannot be given rights to preach any irrarionale things
    for EG you are a principal of school and a teacher in your schoo
    teaches children that Earth is Flat and 2+2=5 will you allow that
    teacher to continue??No, same way you hindus teach many wrong things
    as a result you will not be allowed to preach in mUslim and i will say
    even in non muslim countries..

    Well you did not answer my questions?????

    1) What is Bhagwaan..
    2) why you do not educate hindus that Idol wroshippping is irrationale
    so remove all idls from temples.Do not celeberate Ganpati..Do not
    worship SHIVLINGAM.I have never seen any thing on your website…
    3) Is it a must to follow your way of religion.
    4) Is it fine if person do not follow your religion.
    5) If there is a no hell and heaven then can we do whatever we want
    like rape, adultery ,drugs..

    • @Terrorist Muinz
      Here you are, copy paster from a copy paster has arrived again!
      You justify killing of apostates shamelessly, which is the indication that you are yet another terrorist like Zakir Naik and Osama.

      Philosophy is for intellectuals and not for terrorists, remember that. What will you do after you will know what is Bhagvaan? Its not apostates but terrorists like you who should be executed.

      • You people are jokers .. its funny to read your comment..
        You do not say hindu leaders as terrorist even if they justify riots..why.
        Anyone who supports a criminal is a criminal.
        I explained the reason behind death punishment for apostates.Check your website before running like a headless chicken…

      • Muinz
        Did any Hindu leader say that anyone who converts to Islam will/should be killed? Hindus never started riots, they always retaliate, which is justified always. However, one should always respect mothers and sisters of all communities and whoever insults them, I want death punishment for them be it any hindu or a muslim. No religious scholar of Hindus ever said anything to start war or riots.

        Will you accept any law in India, which says that whoever does not convert to hinduism will be killed or will be treated like animals? You have your reason behind killing apostates, someone can have his own! And should not those people who convert to Islam be killed as per your logic of traitor?

  • I think we should start a new thread.I think my comments ar posted half here and half there..
    Can we start fresh thread a new link where all commnets are posted one by one and will not miss any point..

  • As salaamu Alainkum,

    agniveer, can you tell what is shivlingam and is a part of your religion,Is kamasutra part of your religion.

    Can i print books under your name educating idiot hindus that idol worshipping is against hinduism and remove all idols from temples and wash and clean the temples as it has become impure by idols..
    educate hindus on what is shivlingam and what is kamasutra ..

    So that India can become and advanced country as becoz of all nonsense worshipping has put India on back foot.
    All other religious countries area all clean and quality of life is very good except India.

    India is only religious country where people are senselesss and backwqrd..

    • @Muinz

      Waalekum as-salam Muinz Bhai,

      Let us prioritise things. Let us start with the empowerment of women and remove all those verses of quran and hadiths which advocate women to be treated as sex-slaves and concubines . Also the ones in which muhammad calls women less intelligent and hell full of women !!

      I am sure you would do this so as to as a save your mother and sisters from this nomadic customs. What say ??

      Do let us know when you are done with this so that we can chalk out the next plan of action so that we can save humanity from these “idiotic” and barbaric cults.

      Pls reply ASAP coz’ we really need self-less volunteers like you!

      • Sorry for poking my nose. Once you poked yourS now I am poking mine. Let us first remove the quotes like “BRAHMA WAS BORN FROM THE MOUTH, KSHATRIYA BY HAND, VYSYA FROM THIGHS AND SHUDRAS FROM THE FEET. You people now what you have done to the shudras.

        “CHAHE STREE BALAK WA YIVTI WA BUDI HO, WO SWATANTRATA SE KOI BHI KAAM GHARO MEI BHI NA KARE.”

        NO.17 SU 12, JO MANUSHYA VEDO KI SARVOPKARI AGAYAO KA ULLANGHAN KARE USE SHOORVEER PURUSH YOGYA DUND DE. WO DURACHARI PARMESHWAR KE NYAY VYAVASTHA SE BHI KUST BHOGTA HAI.”

        NO.17 SU17 DUND KE DWARA SHATRU KE AANKHO KO CHED KAR ANEK KLESHO KE SAATH BHASM KARKE SHIGRA NASH KAR DENA CHAHIYE KE PHIR ANYA PURUSH DHUST KARM NA KAREN PAYE.”

        NO.10 HEY AANKHE KHOL DENE WALE TU AANKH SE GUPT BAAT KARNE WALE DUSHT HRUDAY WALE KI PASLIYA HI TOD DE.”

        YOU SPOKE ABOUT JIZIYA NOW READ THIS NO.23 SU1,NEETRGYA RAJA PRAJA AUR SHTARUO SE “KAR” LEKAR UNKE HIKARYO MEI LAGAYE JISSE SAB BAHRI BHEETRI SHATRU LOG NASHT HOKAR DABE RAHE AUR SHRESHTHO KA PALAN KIYA KARE.

        DHANYAVAAD

      • A commonly held perception regarding Vedas is their prejudice against Shudras. Vedas are accused of being Brahminical texts designed to subdue the Shudras. They are considered to be the source of caste-based discrimination that is touted as the primary characteristic of Hinduism/ Sanatan Dharma or Vedic Dharma. The entire pro-Dalit movement also has its foundation on this baseless notion.

        Unfortunately, nothing could be far from truth. In this series of articles, we would provide evidence from Vedas and related texts to establish the following:

        a. The meaning of four Varnas and Shudra in particular is completely different from what the Macaulay inspired intellectuals would want us to believe.
        b. There is absolutely no element of birth-based discrimination or denial of opportunity for any human being in Vedic way of life.
        c. If there is one text that provides evidence of highest level of meritocracy and equal-opportunity, it is the Vedas. Even the most contemporary texts on human rights cannot come closer.

        Before we begin our journey of solving the caste-puzzle through Vedas, let us start with certain worship mantras from Vedas that mention Shudras:

        Yajurved 18.48:
        O Lord! Provide enlightenment/ compassion to our Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras. Provide me also with the same enlightenment so that I can see the truth.

        Yajurved 20.17:
        Whatever crime we have committed against my village, forest or committee; whatever crime we have committed through our organs, whatever crime we have committed against Shudras and Vaishyas, whatever crime we have done in matters of Dharma, kindly forgive us relieve us from the tendency of the same.

        Yajurved 26.2:
        The way I gave this knowledge of Vedas for benefit of all humans, similarly you all also propagate the same for benefit of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Shudras, Vaishyas, Women and even most downtrodden. The scholars and the wealthy people should ensure that they not deviate from this message of mine.

        Atharvaved 19.32.8:
        O Lord! May I be loved by everyone – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Shudra or Vaishya. May I be admired by everyone.

        Atharvaved 19.62.1:
        May all noble people admire me. May kings and Kshatriyas admire me. May all look at me with admiration. May the Shudras and Vaishyas admire me.

        It is clear from these mantras that a Vedic person:
        – seeks to be forgiven for crimes against all including Shudras
        – seeks to propagate Vedas to all including Shudras
        – considers all Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra to be equal and respects them equally.

        Thus it is clear that as per Vedas, Shudras deserve the same respect as other Varnas and as per Vedic prayer, Shudras are accorded great esteem.

        It is also interesting that in all of these mantras, the word Shudra comes before Vaishya. So one cannot counter-argue that Shudras are given last mention or least preference.

        These are sufficient evidence to conclude that Shudra, as per Vedas, imply something quite different from a caste or community that has to be discriminated against. We shall explore the meaning of Shudra and associated terms like Daas, Dasyu and Anarya, which are often confused to be synonyms, in subsequent articles.

        May the truth prevail!

      • //Let us first remove the quotes like “BRAHMA WAS BORN FROM THE MOUTH, KSHATRIYA BY HAND, VYSYA FROM THIGHS AND SHUDRAS FROM THE FEET. You people now what you have done to the shudras.//

        #
        It is unfortunate that in this country of ours, where Vedas were the foundation of our culture, we forgot these original lessons of Vedas and got trapped in a variety of misconceptions regarding birth-based caste system and discrimination of people born in certain castes collectively known as Shudras.
        The misleading theories of communists and biased indologists have already caused a great damage to our society and have sown seeds of differences. It is unfortunate that so-called Dalits consider themselves outcaste and hence we fail to unite together for prosperity and security. The only solution is to go back to the roots – the Vedas – and rebuild our understanding of our relationships with each other.
        In this article, we shall evaluate the reality of caste system in Vedas and actual meaning of Shudra.
        1.
        As discussed in the first article “Vedas and Shudra”, there is absolutely no element of hatred or discrimination in Vedas regarding any person – be he or she a Brahmin, Vaishya, Kshatriya or Shudra.
        2.
        The concept of caste is relatively new. Vedas contain no word that can be considered a synonym for ‘caste’. The two words commonly considered to mean ‘caste’ are Jaati and Varna. However the truth is that, all the three mean completely different things.
        Caste is a European innovation having no semblance in Vedic culture.

        Jaati
        Jaati means a classification based on source of origin. Nyaya Sutra states “Samaanaprasavaatmika Jaatih” or those having similar birth source form a Jaati.
        An initial broad classification made by Rishis is 4-fold: Udbhija (coming out of ground like plants), Andaja (coming out of eggs like birds and reptiles), Pindaja (mammals) and Ushmaj (reproducing due to temperature and ambient conditions like virus, bacteria etc).
        Similarly, various animals like elephant, lion, rabbits etc form different ‘Jaati’. In same manner, entire humanity forms one ‘Jaati’. A particular Jaati will have similar physical characteristics, cannot change from one Jaati to another and cannot cross-breed. Thus Jaati is creation of Ishwar or God.
        Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra are no way different Jaati because there is no difference in source of birth or even physical characteristics to differentiate between them.
        Later, word ‘Jaati’ started being used to imply any kind of classification. Thus in common usage, we call even different communities as different ‘Jaati’. However that is merely convenience of usage. In reality, all humans form one single Jaati.
        Varna
        The actual word used for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra is ‘Varna’ and not Jaati.
        The word ‘Varna’ is used not only for these four, but also for Dasyu and Arya.
        ‘Varna’ means one that is adopted by choice. Thus, while Jaati is provided by God, ‘Varna’ is our own choice.
        Those who choose to be Arya are called ‘Arya Varna’. Those who choose to be Dasyu become ‘Dasyu Varna’. Same for Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra.
        That is why Vedic Dharma is called ‘Varnashram Dharma’. The word Varna itself implies that this is based on complete freedom of choice and meritocracy.
        3.
        Those involved in intellectual activities have chosen ‘Brahmin Varna’. Those into defense and warfare are ‘Kshatriya Varna’. Those in economics and animal rearing are ‘Vaishya Varna’ and those involved in other support functions are “Shudra Varna”. They refer merely to various choices of professions and have nothing to do with any Jaati or birth.
        4.
        Often mantras of Purush Sukta are cited to prove that Brahmins originated from Mouth, Kshatriya from hands, Vaishya from thighs and Shudras from legs of God. Thus these varnas are birth-based. However nothing could be more deceptive. Let us see why:
        a. Vedas describe God to be shapeless and unchangeable. How can such a God take shape of a gigantic person if He is shapeless. Refer Yajurved 40.8.
        b. If indeed this were true, this would defy the theory of Karma of Vedas. Because as per Theory of Karma, one’s family of birth can change as per his or her deeds. So one born in Shudra family can take birth as king’s son in next birth. But if Shudras are born from feet of God, how can same Shudra again take birth from hands of God?
        c. Soul is timeless and never born. So soul can have no Varna. It is only when it takes birth as human that it has a chance to opt a Varna. Then what is meant by a Varna coming from one part of God’s body? If Soul did not take birth from God’s body, then does it mean body of soul is prepared from God’s body parts? But as per Vedas, even nature is eternal. And same atoms recycle among various humans. So it is technically impossible for any one taking birth from God’s body, even if we assume God to be having a body.
        d. The said Purush Sukta is in 31st Chapter of Yajurved, apart from Rigved and Atharvaved with some variations. In Yajurved it is 31.11. To see what it actually means, let us look at the previous mantra 31.10.
        It asks a question – Who is mouth? Who is hand? Who is thigh and who is leg?
        The next mantra gives the answer – Brahmin is mouth. Kshatriya is hand. Vaishya is thigh and Shudra becomes the legs.
        Note that the mantra does not say that Brahmin “takes birth” from mouth…It says Brahmin “is” mouth. Because if the mantra would mean “takes birth” it would not answer the question in previous mantra “Who is mouth?”
        For example, if I ask “Who is Dashrath?”, an answer like “Rama is born from Dashrath” would be meaningless!
        The actual meaning is:
        In society, Brahmins or intellectuals form the brain or head or mouth that think and speak. Kshatriya or defense personnel form the hands that protect. Vaishya or producers and businessmen form the thigh that support and nurture (note that thigh bone or femur produces blood and is strongest bone). In Atharvaveda, instead of Uru or Thigh, the word “Madhya” is used meaning that it denotes also the stomach and central part of body.
        Shudra or Labor force form the legs that lay the foundation and make the body run.
        The next mantras talk of other parts of this body like mind, eyes etc. The Purush Sukta describes the origin and continuation of creation including human society and states ingredients of a meaningful society.
        Thus, its a pity that such a beautiful allegorical description of society and creation is distorted to mean something that is completely contrary to Vedic ethos.
        Even the Brahman texts, Manusmriti, Mahabharat, Ramayan and Bhagvat do not state anything even close to crazy hypothesis of God creating Brahmins by tearing of flesh from his mouth, Kshatriya from flesh of hands and so on.
        5.
        It is thus obvious why Brahmins are accorded high respect in Vedas. This is same as what happens even in modern society. Scholars and experts get our respect because they form the direction-providers for entire humanity. However, as we have discussed in previous articles, dignity of labor is equally emphasized in Vedas and hence there is no element of discrimination.
        6.
        In Vedic culture, everyone is considered to be born as Shudra. Then based on his or her education, one becomes a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya. This completion of education is considered to be a second birth. Hence these three Varnas are called “Dwija” or twice-born. But those who remain uneducated for whatever reasons are not discarded from society. They continue as Shudra and perform support-activities for the society.
        7.
        A son of Brahmin, if he fails to complete his education, becomes a Shudra. Similarly, son of a Shudra or even a Dasyu, if he completes his education can become a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya. This is pure meritocracy. The way degrees are accorded today, Yajnopaveet was provided in Vedic system. Further, non-compliance with the code of conduct for each Varna could result in taking away of the Yajnopaveet.
        8.
        Many examples exist of change of Varnas in Vedic history.
        a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.
        b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)
        c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.
        d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting.
        (Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)
        Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?
        e. Nabhag, soon of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)
        about 7 months ago · Report
        #
        Shiva Sankara f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)
        g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)
        h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.
        i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.
        j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)
        k. Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (VP 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.
        Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya and Vritsamati.
        l. Matanga was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.
        m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.
        n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.
        o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal
        p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.
        q. Vidur was son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur empire.
        9.
        The word “Shudra” has come in Vedas around 20 times. Nowhere has it been used in a derogatory manner. Nowhere it mentions that Shudras are untouchable, birth-based, disallowed from study of Vedas, lesser in status than other Varnas, disallowed in Yajnas.
        10.
        In Vedas, Shudra means a hard-working person. (Tapase Shudram – Yajurved 30.5). And that is why Purush Sukta calls them as foundation of entire human society.
        11.
        Since the four Varnas refer to 4 kinds of activities by choice, as per Vedas, the same person exhibits characteristics of the 4 varnas in different situations. Thus everyone belongs to all the 4 varnas. However, for simplicity sake, we refer to the predominant profession to be the representative Varna.
        And hence, all humans should strive to be all the 4 Varnas to best of their capabilities, as per Vedic wisdom. This is the essence of Purush Sukta.
        The Rishis like Vasisth, Vishwamitra, Angira, Gautam, Vaamdeva and Kanva exhibited traits of all the four Varnas. They discovered meanings of Vedic mantras, destroyed Dasyus, did manual labor and indulged in wealth management for social welfare.
        We should also emulate the same.
        In summary, we see that the Vedic society considers all humans to be one single Jaati or race, upholds the dignity of labor and provides equal opportunity for all humans to adopt the Varna of their choice.
        There is no element of birth-based discrimination of any manner in the Vedas.
        May we all unite together as one integrated family, reject the last element of birth-based discrimination of any manner and embrace each other as brothers and sisters.
        May we also thwart the designs of those who want to mislead us by making baseless claims of casteism in Vedas and destroy the criminals aka Dasyu/Daas/Rakshas.
        May we all come under the shelter of Vedas and work together to strengthen the humanity as one single family.

        There is no caste-system in Vedas.

      • Is it? There is no caste systmem in vedas? Then why dont you go and convince your brahmin brothers to share the food and water with shudras. First try to put your house in order then point fingers at others.Sadly there are no takers of your explanation. Also decide which vedas are you referring to. There is no translation of all the four vedas. Vedas clearly states that brahmins are far superior than shudras.

      • Tanveer,

        when your Taqiya has been caught a couple of times by Brother Arya you have shifted your strategy from quran and hadiths to a social problem.

        FYI, even before the analysis of Islam, scholars of Agniveer wrote about the caste-system but its difficult for Islamic brain to comprehend that. I understand !

        BTW, you still didn’t gather the courage to comment on – http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/

      • My dear friend Proud to be kafir, it is you people who have no answers that is why you have invented a clever ploy to distract the minds of those who are debating with you. You are just directing everybody to the link. So it is you who dont have any answers. When you are exposed it becomes a social problem and when something is mentioned in Quran you take its meaning literally. My simple point is invite hindu brothers and tell them about vedas and see the results. Why you have to malign other religion. Is it that you are not confident of your own?

      • @Tanveer

        Did you notice that the stupid caste system has been dissolved alot over the centuries??? Now a days, this whole caste system business is so low and hopefully it will vanish completely soon.

        Now its muslims that do not have logical answers to the questions of nature, not us. We are not pointing fingers at islam only……..we are comparing every religion to see which one is the logical one, which one has no defects, which one treats every human equally, and last but not the least, which religion does not curse non believers just for a stupid reason of not believing in the holy book. Only Vedas pass this test.

        Whereas Bible and Quran state that if one does not believe in these books to by holy, he she will burn in hell. Whereas, Vedas do NOT demand people to believe in them. As per Vedas, a person who rejects Vedas can still attain bliss by doing good deeds, wheras I cannot attain paradise in islam if I reject Quran even though I do good deeds every second of my life.

        Can you compare the beauty of Vedas with any other holy book????????

      • Are you living in a fools paradise. Just compare the stattics and let me know weather the caste system has increased or decreased. Please explain to me the following quotes no.17 su 12 JO MANUSHYA VEDO KI SARVOPKARI AGYAO KA ULLANGHAN KARE UCE SHOORVEER PURUSH YOGYA DUND DE. WO DURACHARI, PARMESHWAR KE NYAY VYAVASTHA SE BHI KUST BHOGTA HAIN. If I am not following the vedas then I should be punished. Thats what it means. Why are you pointing fingers at others.

        NO.17 SU 17 DUND KE DWARA SHATRU KE AANKHO KO CHED KAR ANEK KLESHO KE SAATH BHASM KARKE SHIGRA NAASH KAR DENA CHAHIYE KE PHIR ANYA PURUSH DHUST KAAM NA KARNE PAYE. WOW, WHAT A BEAUTY, IF SAME PUNISHMENT IS MENTIONED IN QURAN YOU CALL IT BRUTALITY. Your expert commnets please.

      • @ Tanveer

        Brother, please do not discuss further…!!!

        They have gone beyond the limits…!!! Let’s submit our prayer to GOD to help us get rid of these jealousy venoms…!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • You are right. They are terrified, scared with the growing influence of ISLAM. So many people are converting to ISLAM.They have made a huge website and working so hard which itself proves that ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION.

      • @Tanveer

        why should we be scared of islam, on contrary islam should be scared of us. Your Moghal Empire couldnt survive us, what makes you think you will scare us.

        Islam always attacked innocence so that is why it lost every battle against truth.

      • @Tanveer

        yeah we are indeed terrified, we don’t want to get our children blown into pieces, wife getting raped, ourselves getting beheaded.

      • Why ask the same question twice? Your claims (including your ‘quotes’) have been already beautifully debunked by Totagoto.

      • @Tanveer

        brother, look around you, caste system is no longer prevalent as much as it used to be. Do not worry about us, soon we will propagate Vedic teachings so much that it will automatically crush the caste system out of society.

        Your quotation is wrongfully interpreted my dear. Vedic verses can not be easilly read as they appear, one has to give noble thoughts to it.

        Vedas never force anyone to believe in them. Do you know the meaning of Vedas?????

        Please give the correct quotation references, I am pretty sure, you interpretation is wrong. If your interpretation was even 1 percent correct, many Arya Samajis would be forcing people by the sword to convert. This shows your level of ignorance.

        Tanveer, why dont you look at your own religion, which is full of sects. What do you have to say about shias and ahmediyas and sunnis????? You people kill ahmediyas in Pakistan, what about all that??

      • Mr.Vik my quotation is 100% correct. Agniveer and party have themselves given me the name of the website from which I have taken this quotation. So there is no question of misrepresenting. According to this website vedas was revealed some 10,000 years ago. When you are not able to eradicate the caste system during such a long time then how will you eradicate it now.
        Regarding shias and sunni, these sects are as per the people and not as per the Quran. Quran never says sunnis are superior etc. There is no sect at all. We dont have any problem sitting next to a sunni or shia or sharing the same water and food unlike you people where a dog has been declared untouchable just because he was fed by a low caste women.

      • Tanveer before preaching us why do not you explain to OSAMA BIN LADEN AND TALIBAN that ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE. Sadly there are no takers for your explanation.

      • Dear Tanveer !

        I was born in Pakistan & still living there I have heard and I have seen among hundreds of sunnies and shias muslims that I know Sunnies really abuse Shias at that extreme that they don’t share their water, food even they don’t share their rituals and prayers places like Mosques in Pakistan but I don’t know how they live in India. They have different mostques to have daily prayers in locality in Pakistan. They hate so much with one another like deadly cats and dogs fighting ready to kill each other.

        Sunnies say, we don’t believe the Quran one Shia believes in.

        Shias claim Ali was actually prophet of Elah(Allah) not Mohammed (But we Vedic People claim that Allah is a corrupted name of Vedic Mother odess whom you worship as ALLAH a male character is a first blender mistake bein done by all Muslims Ummah) now you can see where Islam there is, how will you justify which one of them is real Islam, please correct your notions first about it. Remember there were 360 idols in Kaaba which prove it was a part of Vedic Culture or Hinduism which was deliberately hijacked by Mohammed and destroyed and also recently it has been proved that Hinduism had ever been in Arabia thousands years of ao because Murti of Lord Ganayshya has also been excavated & found in Qatar and Qatar is in Arabia.

        Many of Shias religious treatises and literatures don’t support Quran & Hadiths of what Prophet Mohammed said and did and so what Sunnies vise versa.

        Even Muslims have much more difficult unavoidable disputes of Sects or you can say feelings of inferiority and superiority among all Muslims.

        Sunny
        Shia
        Wahabi
        Devbandi
        Brahlvi

        Above are few of sects I have experienced in Pakistan they have a Greater conflict wtih one another.

        Moreover, We being a Bhagat(devotee) of Ram, never curse over a Bhagat of Krsna
        We bein Vedic people or Hindus never stop any other Hindus not to follow Shiva or not to follow Vishnu. Don’t you think livin in India that they consider all forms in one formless Eshwara/od. Krsna devotee never bombards over a Rama devotee or Krsna temple is never destroyed by the followers of Rama temples in India this is our vedic culture’s education and knowlede that we even don’t kill an ant. Because ant has no dharm but we know the dharma an ant possess is actually the same natural Vedic Sanatana Dharma an Eternal Universla Laws

        Most prominent is that many people at the present realized that an original Saudi never accepts a person who are out of original Arabs or Biddu. They still call all Indian Muslims a Hindi Muslims. They never accept you from their hearts even after Quran mentions no wahabi is superior to ajami and no ajami is superior to wahabi all are equal then why still original arabs behave like that?. Please answer.

        to be continued

        Jai Sri Krsna OM, peace peace peace,
        B/rds,
        Jay Maheshwary from Pakistan.

      • Jay Brother Nice exposure keep commenting on this site so that we can know how muslims are treating Hindus in Muslim majority areas.

    • @Who thinks Islam is great
      Brother, first of all, please visit http://agniveer.com/2623/islam-will-not-be-a-threat-if/ and give your views on the ten points given there. Its necessary to differentiate between good Muslims and fanatic supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik. Make your stand clear there and then we can continue with your discussion.

      BTW, “Som” in Sanskrit means “joyful”, it can be your mother, father, friend, or any other thing which makes you feel happy. Further discussion would require your clear views on the above link.

      Thank you.

    • @jaydeen
      Namaste Brother,
      Every Mantra of Praarthna in Vedas is in first person plural, which indicates towards multiple souls. For example Gayatri Mantra, “Dhiyo Yo NAh Prachodayaat” means “May Eeshvar guide our intellects in noble causes”

      Dhanyawad

  • The brahmins and oother upper castes would be happy if they are made SC/STs in today’s India for getting reservation benefits. Even the Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims want reservation benefits!!

  • yadi aajeevan brahmacharya vaidik hai to vedon men iska pramaan to hoga? Manu smriti ka koi shlok ya vedon ka koi mantra kya iski pushti nahi karta? . I know that rishi dayanand and others were lifelong brahmachari but that does not prove that it’s vedic. If this practice is vedic then there should be a mantra in Vedas or shlok in manu smriti (i want a textual evidence) . DHANYAVAAD.

    • @ basant jhariya

      यदहरेव विरजेत्तदहरेव प्रव्रजेद्वनाद्वा ग्रुहाद्वा ब्रह्मचर्यादेव प्रव्रजेत्त || (अथर्ववेदीयजाबालोपनिषत खं.४)

      जिस दिनसे वैराग्य प्राप्त हो, उसी दिन घर वा वनसे संन्यास ग्रहण कर ले | जो पूर्ण विद्वान, जितेन्द्रिय, विषय-भोगकी कामनासे रहित, परोपकार करनेकी इच्छा रखनेवाला हो वह ब्रह्मचर्याश्रमसे ही संन्यास ले | (सत्यार्थप्रकाश, समुल्लास ५)

  • Agniveerji,namaste

    Here are my some questions:
    1. Does Law of Kharma decides the birth of soul in Animal,Human or Tree form?

    …2. What is the cause of very first birth? What decided one soul to be born in Human body and other soul to be born in Tree in the very first birth?
    3. I read in agniveer site that Ishwar,Soul and Nature are eternal. So what does Vedas tell about fate of Universe? Science says it will be destroyed by BIG BANG

    • @TOTAGOTO
      Namaste
      1. Yes.
      2. There is nothing like very first birth. This cycle of creation and destruction of universe is without beginning and souls are also without beginning. It can be understood as a real number line, on which we can try to approach from zero (any point in this journey) to infinity (in past or future) but not other way round.
      3. It is principle of Vedic philosophy that whichever has been created will come to an end one day. This is called “Pralay”, which means splitting up of the matter to its smallest unit called “Prakriti”. We can call it by any name X, Y, or Z.

    • Why you need authorization from Veda. It is an experiment. By keeping brahmacharya, you can develop tremendous memory and efficiency. Your semen could be converted to higher energy. Try Patanjali yoga. There you will get lot of references.

    • Bhagwan means one who possesses “Bhag” meaning prosperity. Bhagwan can be used to denote Ishwar because He is ultimate source of all prosperity. But it is also used to denote brilliant and noble and prosperous people. Like Bhagwan Krishna, Bhagwan Ram.

      • But this link tells totally different meaning of this word. this says that Bhagwan means one who posesses yoni…

        http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/भगवान

        and about an year ago I opened this same link, then this was written there,

        Bhagwan word is made up of five words i.e the names of five elements

        भ- भूमि
        अ- अग्नि
        ग- गगन
        वा- वायु
        न- नीर

      • if one goes by etymology …. then bhaga-wan means one who posses wealth (bhaga-wealth wan-possessor of)

      • I think that Bhagwan can be defined as the entity, eligible to be offered the Havi in Yajnya. Hence Bhagwan is called to most revered and ‘varenya’ energetic entity, it may be vedic deity like indra, varuna, agni etc. or human with kind and godly virtues, hence we revere Ram, Krishna or some rushis as Bhagwan as the honor and respect.

  • have u deleted my question ???why?
    did i asked u something strange or something which cannot be answered by u?
    i asked u how many gods do u worship and why…why one god of urs bend down towards others …how can one god be inferior to another …then y hindus claim that there is one god ….use ur common sense..coz no reliogion can be a true religion or religion which cannot be understood with common sence ….wake up..

    • @aasma

      Are you really interested to get the answers or merely doing Taqiya !!

      You asked the question on Zakir Naik Refuses to Debate Arya Samaj page and then crying for the answer on this page !! This is the problem when you read too much of quran and hadees!

    • Asma Ibrahim,

      let me answer your question in a way that you may understand ….

      If many creators is a such a huge problem for you ..you should leave both Hinduism and Islam as an option.

      Many Hindu sects misinterpret the manifest forms of the One Supreme Consciousness as Gods themselves

      and similarly , Quran clearly tells us that there many creators apart from Allah

      here:Quran (37:125)

      http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/037.qmt.html#037.125

      “Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of CREATORS”

      see..allah is requesting muslims to not worship Baal and worship him alone as he is the best of CREATORS !!!

      so you see ..allah mia is not the only creator ..there are many apart from him.

      he just reminds you that he is the best amongst them 🙂

      welcome to the vedas :)..here God is one …without any doubt

  • “or Pandavas played gambling. But neither is an example of VEDIC practice and both suffered setbacks for their stupidities.”

    The above line doesn’t make sense in the context. The Pandavas were challenged by the Kauravas and it was their duty as Ksatriyas to accept. If they did not they would not be Ksatriyas.

    • No text states that it is duty of Kshatriyas to accept all challenges. Certain acts are prohibited and they don't become 'allowed' simply because someone challenged you. For example, if I challenge you to east garbage, does it become your duty if you are a Kshatriya?

      Further Kshatriya is a profession and nothing to do with birth as wrongly believed.

      • “Further Kshatriya is a profession and nothing to do with birth as wrongly believed.” I believe rather it is a tendency or inclination. Some people born strong, with great administrative quality, people management quality. Similarly, Brahmins are high in thinking philosophical subject or in meditation.

  • Agniveer Ji…Muslims say to us that “reincarnation theory is not mentioned in the Vedas, then why do U believe us.” coz their Zakir Naik said so… But I am sure this is not possible….
    Can U tell me which verses of Vedas talk about reincarnation and what do those verses say?
    Thank U !

    • @Sunny
      Forget about Vedas brother! Quran itself believes in reincarnation and we shall prove it very soon. Meanwhile let that joker Zakir amuse his semi literate Madarsa followers through his Qadiyani joking mechanism.

      Anyway, refer to Rigved 10/59/6,7, Yajurved 4/15, Atharvaved 7/6/67/1. All of them talk about reincarnation. The essence of these Mantras is that we pray to Eeshvar that may we do noble deeds so that we get better and better physical, mental and spiritual status in our next birth.

      Dhanyawad

      • Oh thats gr88 … but they believe in Heaven-hell too…
        This means Allah himself is confused what’s gonna happen..!!! 🙂

  • Sir, is every single verse in Vedas interpreted by western scholars like Griffith incprrect because I seen some hindu sites use their translations and even as references?

  • Hi agniveer ji…

    Now recently Spencor Wells has made a research considering DNA ,& by genetic calculations & also by archeologic evidence he has written a book "Journey of Man" which proves the "Out of Africa" theory.
    According to this theory homo sapiens(man) first evolved in Africa and then migrated to all the places….

    But I had heard from someone that Himalaya (Kashmir / Nepal) was the place from where evolution of man started..
    Sir please suggest in this regard…

    If Africa is the origin place of human beings then Were the Vedas revealed to sages in Africa?

    Its my request to you to Please throw some light on this topic!

    • 1. The theory of evolution of humans is still a theory with no conclusive evidences. There are several reasons for this including the fact that archaeology is a vague science and the amount of earth explored for fossils is extremely minimal.

      2. Read works of Michael Cremo where he questions the authenticity of archaeology based theories.

      3. The DNA method, though sounds fancy, is still plagued by gross assumptions and statistical inaccuracies. The scientists still dispute validity of the same. Of course it sounds a good masala news for media tough!

      Reality is that there is no evidence to prove evolution of humans except tits and bits of vague information that are forced into a story deliberately. A rational skeptic can at best say that origin of humans is still unknown, if not support the Himalaya theory.

      Dhanyavad

  • Question: What about idol worship?
    In answer to this question, you said Vedas prohibit idol worship. Not at all. They skip this idols business altogether. The Vedic Seers were such evolved people that they never even thought of idols. They just ignored idols altogether.

    The hymn “Na tasya pratima asti yasa namaya mahadyasha” is regarded as ban on idol worship. Zakirbhai, MBBS does not quote the full verse-he only quotes the first part. But when “pratima” is read in context of “yasa namaya mahadyasha”, it seems to suggest that “na tasya pratima asti” is used in the context of “apratim”(incomparable). However, it can be reasoned that since, as per Vedas, God is “akaya”(Bodyless/formless), making idols and worshipping God is senseless exercise. Also, it is absurd that Infinite God can be captured in an idol . Also, it is absurd to see the omnipresent’s presence only in idols. Thus, the ban on idol worship is not in express terms. It flows, as a logical reasoning, from the attributes of God as described in Vedas such as “akaaya”, omnipresent, infinite etc.

    Why the Vedic seers didnot oppose idol worship? Probably because, when you oppose some idea , you mind is preoccupied with it. Islam prohbits idol worship. Quran says that idols can neither profit any one nor harm anyone. In that case, ignore them. Why Muhammad/Abraham broke idols? If idols can harm none, why break them?

    Another interesting thing is that pilgrimage is a logical corollary of idol worship. The ignorant idolator sees God’s presence only in the idol. So, the place where it is installed is sacred to him. I havent come accross references to pilgrimage in Vedas. However, Islam has pilgrimage. Muhammad banned idol worship but sanctioned pilgtimage to place where idols were earlier kept.
    Regards.
    Namaste

    • Namaste. I agree that 'Na Tasya Pratima Asti' is not regarding prohibition of idol worship. I also agree that Vedic seers were smart enough to skip the idol business altogether. What I meant by Vedas prohibit idol worship is what I conclude from Yajurveda 40.8 which describes Ishwar as shapeless, all pervading, Yajurved 31.18 which states that the only way is that of knowing Ishwar the way it is, and Yajurved 1.5 which states that only truth should be followed. Thus if Ishwar is in shapeless form, understanding Him in that manner alone directly, is the ONLY accepted way.

      I fully agree that ban is a stupid concept. Spread of true knowledge alone can remove ignorance. And breaking idols is an even more stupid concept. I agree that because author(s) of quran were unaware of deep philosophies of East, they showed cursory hatred to idol worship but promoted Kaba worship and other rituals some of whch are health hazards.

    • Idols – Google “Need for symbols , complete works of swami vivekanada”
      plurality of Gods – Google “Ista diva ,complete works of swami vivekanada” .

  • Question: Why did God deny VEDAS to Shudras and Women?
    Hi Agniveerji, In the answer to this question, you may include the command of Yajur Veda in 26:2
    “ I address this salutary speech to the priest, King, Shudra, Arya, relatives and strangers-to all people”
    And also important is the fact that Vedic hymns have been revealed to RISHIKAS(female Rishis like Sachi Paulomi, Urvashi etc whose names occur in Rig Veda). Funny that God considers women fit to receive the revealations of Vedas but doesnot consider them fit to study, chant, listen to Vedas.

    • Namaste

      Thanks for mentioning that. Actually I had designed the FAQ as an overview and wanted to write detailed articles on each of the points. More importantly on women and castes. Because I consider these two to be the greatest blockades for our social progress.

  • Sir,
    1. There was an earth quake at Haithi where hundreds of people perished. Now My question is did these men committed the same mistake as to punished received was uniform, i.e death
    2. Dr Ambedkar has also written "Riddles of Ram and Krishna" The points raised also need to be replied to.

    • Namaste

      The earthquake represents Adhibhautik dukh (Natural griefs). No one can escape from these griefs. These do not necessarily happen due to some specific mistake. These happen because seeds of ignorance persist in us causing us to take birth. Death (destruction of body) is inevitable for any living being. Such events only prepone this inevitability. But they do not stop the spiritual progress and opportunities for the same, that a soul deserves. After death, the soul takes birth again and resumes the journey. Only when all seeds of ignorance are destroyed forever, one is freed from this cycle of birth and death and hence freed from such grief.

      Let us understand it this way: Why do we take birth? Because birth gives us an opportunity to put efforts and destroy ignorance. Till ignorance is there, birth is inevitable. And till ignorance is there, grief is inevitable. So the only reason why such griefs like earthquake affect us is because we have taken birth => we have yet not destroyed all ignorance => we are susceptible to grief. The cycle continues till we are able to destroy all grief. And it continues in a manner that we obtain the best situations for us to remove this ignorance. Death is only a temporary break in this journey to replenish our tools that we require for our efforts – our mind and body. This is like filling up petrol in engine of car.

      As per vedas, there is no concept of discrete mistake and punishment as in many religions. As per Vedas, each action has an impact of either enhancing or reducing our ignorance. And this immediately affects the surroundings to provide us grief or happiness. This is an instantaneous and immediate process. What we think as punishment is merely a cumulative sum of all such actions. This is exactly the way any disease progresses in body. Death is only a temporary stop. Two people dying in same situation does not mean they getting uniform punishment. It only means that two cars stopped to refill petrol at same time. But one car may be a mercedes and other an 800 depending upon how good were the designers (souls) of the car.

  • Similarly Dr Ambedkar has written about riddles of Ram and Krishna, our Aryan heroes. The points raised by dr Ambedkar in this behalf also needs to be replied

  • Sir,
    Recently there was earthquake at Haiti where lacs of people perished. Now the question is did all these people who died did the same mistake in their previous lives as to be subjected with the same punishment of death by God in their present lives? I am confused.