Vedas promote universal love – 1

Vedas-promote-universal-love-–-1Our objective in this article is to bust certain baseless myths regarding Vedas propagated sheerly on basis of the hypothesis that “A false shouted thousand times becomes a truth.”

We hope we shall receive support from all unbiased mind in establishing the truth.

Agniveer has no problems in people believing what they want to believe. That does not mean that Agniveer considers everything to be true, nor does it mean that Agniveer believes that only Agniveer knows the ultimate truth.

Yes, we do critically analyze various ideologies including the ideologies that we were born with in order to discover truth.

So yes, Agniveer believes in a formless omnipotent birthless deathless Supreme Lord, it believes in Ashtanga Yoga as the only path to achieve that Lord, it rejects astrology and superstitions, it does not believe in idol worship like Kaba or statues, it does not believe that Prophets and Avatars come in world, it does not believe that Purans, Bible, Quran are word of God and so on. It also objectively analyzes these beliefs and recommends its own best understanding.

But that DOES NOT MEAN that Agniveer would hate those who disagree with Agniveer. Nor would Agniveer carry a hidden or explicit agenda to convert everyone to its own ideology. Yes, we call for everyone to convert to Vedic religion. But we have clearly explained what we mean by Vedic religion in http://agniveer.com/5095/what-is-vedic-religion/

To summarize, it refers to an urge to constantly accept truth and reject falsehood to best of one’s abilities and intent regardless of existing beliefs, rituals and habits. In other words, to follow Vedic religion means becoming a Scientist because Veda itself means ‘knowledge’. Even belief in any books called Vedas is not a prerequisite. None other than fanatic minds would attempt to find fault with such a concept. And hence we want the entire world to follow this Vedic religion.

Now when we look at the reality, people are born in different social setups and fed with a variety of versions of truth specific to their societies for a reasonably long period of life. So people tend to define their ‘Self’ as Hindu, Shia, Sunni, Christian, Indian, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Tamil, Japanese etc. The goal of Vedic religion is to rise above these man made distinctions to realize the truth. But for the majority, current belief-system is the starting point and it is impossible to reject all prejudices fed over years since early childhood. So all that Vedic religion urges is to look around, analyze, explore and reject the obvious irrational and gradually move forward. If you feel that sudden clarity like Buddha, feel free to jump ahead faster. But all you have to do is to keep moving up like Fire. This will unleash the legend within.

Why Vedas are different?

We have mentioned this in several other articles but would want to emphasize again. Compared to the popular way of approaching Bible or Quran or Purans or any other religious scripture with whom Vedas are wrongly bracketed mostly, Vedas have a fundamental difference.

And that difference is that unlike any other so-called divine text, you are not threatened by any unseen force to follow blindly or face wrath. Nor are you incentivised with divine support for accepting the dictums of the text. On contrary, Vedas assert that if you believe in something blindly, you shall be punished as per law of actions.

So one is completely Vedic if he cannot understand importance of Vedas. On contrary, blind belief even in Vedas without knowing its meaning puts you in darkness.

When it comes to interpreting divine texts, Bible followers have little options that blindly believe in modern translations of Bible (original is lost. And new ones are also said to be translations of translations of translations of original in different language(s))

You either believe in Jesus that you do not see, or perish in Hell forever. A clergy will not accept someone as true Christian if he believes in many good teachings of Bible but refuses divinity to Jesus or counters many portions of Bible with whom he or she differs.

Same is case with Quran (as per dominant ideology of fanatic Islam). Regardless of all other good or scientific concepts claimed in Quran, you still have to believe in certain unseen things even if your mind cannot reason them or suggests an alternative model of world. So you must consider Muhammad as last Prophet. Mere belief in his being Prophet is also not sufficient. You must believe that he is last one. You must believe in Judgment Day, Heaven, Hell, Angels and an Allah on a throne on 7th sky. If you question any one of these, you are a non-believer and hence would go to Hell.

A rational mind, if born in a fanatic dominated country has limited choice

- either be honest (that since he never saw any of these things and think that logically other models of world can also be given where there are no Prophets, or that Muhammad was not a Prophet but a great man, or that there can be future Prophets as well, or that one does not need angels to talk to Allah, or that instead of Heaven and Hell there can be other ways of redemption, or that Judgment Day can happen every second as per law of Karma) and be killed or punished.

- or pretend to believe blindly and live safe. Thus all actions would be against true spirit of Islam but one would wear its badge to save himself.

- or stop reasoning, get brainwashed, be with power brokers and become a fanatic.

Vedic approach would be that of a scientist. Review the prevailing Vedic models, analyze and accept only what sounds reasonable. Discover more through analysis. Feel free to present alternative or modified models. Discuss with scholars and keep refining. Keep challenging assumptions and continue building better and better models that explain the truth.

When a Vedic mantra is interpreted, one need not blindly mug the mantra or its meaning. One can freely differ from prevailing meanings to come up with new insights. The only criteria is that the meaning discovered should be with reason and free from contradictions.

So Vedas in themselves are not to be taken as absolute truth in same manner that theory of relativity need not be believed in unless one has studied and understood the principles behind. If one jumps the gun and mugs up the Einstein paper on relativity without even knowing the basic laws of physics, we do not call such a person scientist. Newton and Galileo were greater scientists for us because they propagated the truth best known to them in most logical manner. Same is the case with Vedas.

Thus any attempt to denigrate Vedas is a foolish exercise. Even if you somehow convince the world (of people who know nothing of Vedic approach to understanding Mantras) that a particular mantra means something very wrong, that does not matter much. All that people have to do is to clearly reject such a meaning for the mantra that goes against their conscience. This will not bring them punishment as an apostate. And tomorrow, when people become eligible to understand mantra better, they are free to revise their stand as well.

So it is not the book which is important but the knowledge within each of us. Book merely serves as a guide to ensure we are on right track and have right benchmarks in place. Just like any Physics or Mathematics book.

Having said all this, in reality we could not find one single evidence of Vedas having anything objectionable in our research so far. We have already written several articles on this and have shown exactly how Vedas have been deliberately misinterpreted by those who want to defend their verbatim interpretations of some scripture in the era of scientific rationalism. Please review the entire series on http://agniveer.com/category/methods/vedas/ with comments.

We shall now analyze in unbiased manner some more myths being propagated with ulterior agenda. You can review the sources of these from google. We do not want to serve as publicity platforms for fanatics.

(Note: the allegations would be mix of English and Hindi. We shall seek volunteer support to convert them into separate Hindi and English articles in future)

 

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Myth 1: Vedas call for destruction of non-believers

Reality:

Vedas call for destruction of only the Rakshas, Dasyus, Daas or Asurs. What they mean have been discussed in detail in following articles:

http://agniveer.com/848/rakshas-vedas-hinduism/

http://agniveer.com/843/vedas-and-daas/

http://agniveer.com/839/vedas-dasyu-hinduism/

In short, they refer to terrorists who kill innocents and destroy public property. For example Osama Bin Laden, Kasab, Naxalite and Maoist killers etc. It has nothing to do with one’s personal beliefs. As you would see in these articles, even those who were born in Arya (noble peaceful) families deserve to be called Dasyu if they indulge in terrorism.

Claim:

“हे अन्न वाले! [व वज्र वाले परमेश्वर]। तुझको स्तुति करने वाले लोग अच्छे प्रकार प्रसन्न करें। तू [हमारे लिए] धन कर, वेद द्वेषों को नष्ट कर।” [अथर्ववेद २०:९३:१]

See how Vedas call for destruction of those who hate Vedas.

Analysis:

The controversial phrase is ब्रह्मद्विष: अव जहि

So it calls for destruction of hatred against Brahma and NOT any Vedic text hater. Brahma is a more subtle concept and refers to the source behind entire creation and hence the feeling that all human beings are equal. It also refers to pure intelligence. So the mantra calls for destruction of those forces that attempt to harm the scholars or sources of intelligence. In other words, those who want to bomb our schools, centers of excellence, intelligence departments or attempt to harm our intelligent masses should be destroyed just as we destroyed Osama Bin Laden and Talibanis.

Also the mantra does not say that people should be destroyed specifically. It says that the very forces – including systems and processes – that attempt to thwart free intellectual pursuits should be destroyed. Because only through freedom of introspection and enhancement of knowledge can one seek happiness for self and society. Perhaps what Anna Hazare is trying to do is to practice this message of Atharvaveda. 

Claim:

“हम लोग जिस से द्वेष  करें और जो हम से द्वेष करे, उस को हम शेर आदि पशुओं के मुख में डाल दें।” [यजुर्वेद १५:१५ दयानंद भाष्य]

See how Dayanand hated others.

Analysis:

1. First, fanatic minds should attempt to review complete picture in order to reduce their fanaticism. Because first of all, a follower of Vedas is not allowed to hate just anybody who disagrees to us. On contrary, as per Yajurveda 40.6 and 40.7 one should view the entire living world as equivalent to himself and guided by the same Supreme Force and never have any hatred.

2. As detailed in previous references, hatred is reserved ONLY for those who blatantly flout this guideline and cause damage to innocents. In other words, ONLY terrorists deserve our hatred. There is not one mantra in entire Vedas that call for hatred on basis of personal or theological beliefs.

3. So terrorists should be dealt with iron hand and be firmly destroyed just as Osama Bin Laden was killed recently. Those who deal with terrorists softly bring havoc to society.

Once again, definition of terrorist is clear – He is someone who kills innocents and harms public property. Very rightly, these are the most severe crimes in all civilized countries of the world – perfectly in lines of Vedas. That is why USA has to send a mission in Abbotabad to destroy terrorists like Osama.

4. In any case, Swami Dayanand never translated mantras in Hindi. He translated them in simple Sanskrit which was then translated into Hindi by other scholars.

5. But in this, to ensure that no illogical meaning is derived, the original translation clearly specifies that this phrase refers ONLY to violent people. Refer Yajurveda Bhashyam Part 2 page 510 published by Ramlal Kapoor Trust which is based on original manuscripts.  I reproduce the relevant portion:

वे रक्षक हम लोग जिस हिंसक से विरोध करें और जो हिंसक हमसे विरोध करें उसको इन व्याघ्र आदि पशुओं के मुख में स्थापन करें.

- So this mantra refers only to violent people and ONLY official security personnel are allowed to carry such operations, not ordinary masses, as per Swami Dayanand. In other words, mantra says that Police and Military should protect people by destroying terrorists.

Claim:

[वेद निंदक] को, काट डाल, चीर डाल, फाड़ डाल, जला दे, फूँक दे, भस्म कर दे।” [अथर्ववेद १२:५:६२]

Analysis:

This is Taqiah (cheating legitimized in name of religion) at its best.

1. The current context of the mantra starts at least from 12.5.47 and continues till 73. So quoting selectively only shows malafide intentions.

2. In reality, the mantra is dedicated to Brahmagavi (ब्रह्मगवी). This refers to fundamental unchangeable laws of nature.

3. The entire chapter details how those who refuse to act as per unchangeable laws of nature due to false ego get destroyed. There is no mention whatsoever of any person or group of person trying to kill anyone.

4. The mantras assert that those who try to silence the voice of intellect or truth get destroyed themselves. These mantras have been the foundation of all revolutionary movements that have ever happened to oppose the voice of tyranny. The chapter is an inspiration for all truth seekers. It elaborates how ultimately laws of nature destroy the greatest of power achieved through tyranny. It elaborates how wealth obtained through tyranny is actually a curse. It elaborates why the mightiest of rulers should be scared of harming a truth-seeking scholar.

5. Mantra 12.5.58 clearly calls this Brahmagavi ‘Aghnye’. So it is in feminine gender and means ‘non-violent’. So it is clear that the mantras talk of wider laws of nature and not inciting into killing innocents because of difference in viewpoints. On contrary, the mantras clearly assert that those who think of killing innocents get destroyed as per Laws of nature.

6. So yes, the mantra does say that Brahmagavi – or Fundamental Truths of Nature destroy the perpetrators of terror and hatred in most merciless manner.

Again, this belief forms the foundation of peaceful living and is rightly encouraged in all civilized societies of the world that believe in tolerance and co-existence.

Claim:

“वेदानुयायी सत्यवीर पुरुष नास्तिकों का नाश करें” (अथर्ववेद १२:५:५४ )

Analysis:

1. The mantra has only 4 words – Oshanti Samoshanti Brahmano Vajrah. None refers to atheists even remotely.

2. Some people may interpret the mantra which means “The Brahmagavi – Laws of Nature – are unchangeable and destroys them who do not comply by it” 

to imply destruction of Naastik. But here Naastik will not mean Atheists but those who attempt to harm scholars and peaceful people.

Etymologically, Naastik means one who does not believe in what exists. So those who refuse to see the evident truth and act haughtily – like dictators and tyrants – are Naastiks. So one many interpret the mantra accordingly.

3. But this interpretation is not to be found in any word of the mantra which has been reproduced above. So even if someone used the word Naastik, obviously it has to be interpreted in right context.

Waking till late in night is bad. Osama was a bad person. Osama was killed because he was bad. This does not mean that all who wake till late in night should also be killed!

Only fanatic minds would deliberately try to give such logics.

Claim:

Swami Dayanand Saraswati claims in Satyarth Prakash that one should not eat with English, Muslim, Chandals etc. Is this not prejudiced?

स्वामी दयानंद सरस्वती सत्यार्थ प्रकाश में ब्रह्मोसमाज और प्रर्थ्नासमाज की आलोचना करते हुए लिखते हैं,

“जिन्होंने अँगरेज़, मुसलमान, चंडाल आदि से भी खाने पीने का अंतर नहीं रखा। उन्होंने यही समझा कि खाने और जात पात का भेद भाव तोड़ने से हम और हमारा देश सुधर जाएगा लेकिन ऐसी बातों से सुधार कहाँ उल्टा बिगाड़ होता हे।” [सत्यार्थ प्रकाश, समुलास ११]

मुसलमान और ईसाई कितने ही सदाचारी हों, स्वामी जी के अनुसार उनके साथ खाना उचित नहीं। यह पक्षपात नहीं तो और क्या हे? क्या आप अब भी ऐसे ‘आर्य समाज’ में रहना पसंद करेंगे?

Analysis:

1. Ideally we should not be analyzing this because it does not refer to Vedas. Swami Dayanand was also a human and there may be typographical errors in his writings. So instead of following him as Prophet, wise people should look at the overall theme of his message and act accordingly.

2. However, still we could not help analyze this because whatever has been presented is a blatant shameless lie. This alone exposes the intent and designs of those who wrote or promoted such hatred against Vedas. As per Quran, they are worst of the creatures.

3. Hindus are very particular about food habits. This is not to do with religion but standards of hygiene. So while the western world adopted practices like washing hands with soap after loo or cleaning hands several times before eating only after advent of soap and wash basin technology, Hindus have been following hospital-standard hygiene practices since inception of civilization. So just as a doctor would not eat with a sweeper because of hygiene issues, same is true with Hindus.

Even today, in west people do not even clean their parts after loo with water properly. They simply rub with dry paper. In very few places, people actually wash hands with soap after loo. 125 years ago, when Dettol was not there, people would simply rub off hands in dust or sprinkle some water. No conservative Hindu will take a bite without a bath. And before and after each meal, he would clean hands, face and feet properly. Even within a family, people would not touch each other or eat with them unless they are clean. The utensils used for loo, bathing and cooking are different. Anything that touches one’s saliva or even lips is never eaten by others even after washing. It is simply thrown away.

In some cultures, exchange of saliva is considered a symbol of love. They even encourage 8 people eating from same plate.

But a follower of scientific hygiene practices would desist from this, not because he hates other people, but because he cannot medically justify exchange of saliva, dirt within fingernails, nasal outpourings etc. So the medical rule is that each should eat in separate plate and after due hygiene care to prevent infections.

4. Further, as Swami Dayanand himself elaborates in next para, food habits vary as per geography and availability. So blindly imitating anyone’s food habit without analyzing its relevance in current situation is foolishness.

4. Nonetheless, contrary to fanatic claims, it were Arya Samajis who promoted Food Together as a concept to break caste barriers. Swami Shradhananda – direct disciple of Swami Dayanand – has organized perhaps the highest number of people ever in ‘Food together’ campaigns.

But this ‘Food Together’ does not mean eating from same plate. It means eating from different plates but at same place after due hygiene practices. It also does not mean eating dry breads simply because English eat it even though there are more nutritious and tasty foods in India.

So all that Dayanand implied was eating with foreigners (from same plate) who have not complied with hygiene practices like bath and cleaning hands properly after loo. Or blindly imitating their food when we have more relevant and tastier options available.

As a matter of fact, the variety and quality of good food available in India is comparable to no other place in the world. 

5. Regardless of all, the reference provided is fake. Satyarth Prakash does not even have any reference to Chandals here.

The actually text is as follows:

अँगरेज़ यवन अन्त्यजादी से भी खाने का भेद नहीं रखा. उन्होंने यही समझा होगा कि खाने पीने और जातिभेद तोड़ने से हम और हमारा देश सुधर जायेगा…..

And here is the propagated fraud version:

अँगरेज़, मुसलमान, चंडाल आदि से भी खाने पीने का अंतर नहीं रखा। उन्होंने यही समझा कि खाने और जात पात का भेद भाव तोड़ने से हम और हमारा देश सुधर जाएगा….

Refer Page 308 of Satyarth Prakash at http://agniveer.com/2037/satyarth-prakash/ or any other authoritative version.

- Notice the most shameless fraud. To malign Swami Dayanand, Yavan has been replaced by Musalmaan, Antyaj by Chandal and Jaati-Bhed by ‘Jaat Paat ka Bhed Bhaav’.

This completely changes the meaning and intent of author.

- In very next paragraph, Swami Dayanand explains what he means by Jaati Bhed. He very clearly asserts that among humans, Jaati Bhed or classification is NOT birth based but as per nature, habits and actions. He also states that difference in food habits among humans is due to geographical and availability factors.

- Antyaj means someone who is neither Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra. In other words, only those who reject hygiene practices completely are Antyaj. For example people who do not bath, do occult practices with dead bodies, and eat without care of hygiene etc.

- Yavan does not mean Muslim but someone who hates Hindus. Or else, the same Swami would not have started his Lahore Arya Samaj from home of a Muslim while Swamiji was staying there (in a Muslim’s home)

- English of course were rulers. So Swami Dayanand was very clear that trying to please those who aim to harm us or ridicule our ways of living by eating with them from one plate – after utter disregard of personal hygiene and vernacular food- will do no good.

- Immediately after this section, Swami Dayanand praises Englishmen in the next section of Satyarth Prakash for their loyalty to their culture and nation. He says that English do not even wear shoes of any place except England, and never gave up their own way of living even after 100 years of stay in India. That is why they are the leaders.

Thus, he was referring to standing by one’s noble standards instead of imitating blindly in order to please others. What he wrote was with spirit of nationalism. Dayanand was the first person to give call to Swadeshi movement. Satyarth Prakash is the first text that talks of Swaraj and pride of Swadesh. That is why everyone regards Swami Dayanand as grandfather of freedom and Swadeshi movement. So instead of praising the founder of modern freedom movement of India in both political and social domain, fanatics feel pride in condemning the same!

Fools rush where angels fear to tread!

Myth 2: Vedic God is lecherous

Yajurveda 30.5 says that just as God created Brahmin for Vedas, He created lecherous for sex. So just as Brahmin’s dharma is Vedas, Kshatriya’s dharma is protection, Vaishya’s dharma is business, Shudra’s dharma is service, similarly dharma of a lecher is to promote vulgarity and adultery. So Vedas legitimize spread of vulgarity.

यजुर्वेद अध्याय ३०, मंत्र ५ में लिखा हे कि लोगों को विभिन्न धर्मों और व्यवसायों में ईश्वर ने पैदा किया. जहां ईश्वर ने अच्छे व्यवसाय पैदा किये वहीं बुरे व्यवसाय भी पैदा किये. उसने जहां ब्रह्म॑णे ब्राह्म॒णं (वेद के लिए ब्रह्मण को पैदा किया), वहीं कामा॑य पुँश्च॒लूम (समागम के लिए व्यभिचारी को पैदा किया). जिस प्रकार ब्रह्मण का धर्म वेद हे, क्षत्र्य का धर्म नीति की रक्षा, वैश्य का धर्म व्यापार, शूद्र का धर्म सेवा है, इसी प्रकार एक व्यभिचारी का धर्म व्यभिचार है. दुनिया में जिस प्रकार हर कोई व्यक्ति अपना अपना धर्म फेला रहा है, इसी प्रकार, वो भी अपना धर्म फेला रही है, और अन्य लोगों के गुमराह होने का कारण बन रही है.

Reality:

The standard of allegation itself speaks volumes of the intellect of the creator of this argument.

I am not sure what is the source of this translation, but given that the modern fanatics have an obsession to condemn Swami Dayanand, let us review his translation.

1. To understand the context, let us review the previous mantra 30.5 as well. It says that may the just king give everyone due reward and punishment as per his or her deeds in same manner as Supreme Lord provides fruits of actions justly to all living beings. 

So the mantra is a reemphasis on Law of Karma that motivates us all to conduct noble actions and desist us from foolish deeds.

2. The next mantra states that:

May the Lord (of world as well as country) give due reward or punishment to various people – Brahmin for promotion of wisdom, Kshatriya for right leadership, Vaishya for conduct of business, Shudras for their selfless service, thief for thriving in darkness, murderers for killing noble people, impotents for sinful acts (one who conducts sinful acts is impotent as per Vedas as he or she is incapable of producing anything worthwhile), terrorists for attacking innocent people, lechers for adultery, criminals for lowly acts.

The rest of the mantras in the chapter provide more such examples.

3. So it is very obvious that Vedas do not justify lechery. On contrary they demand the ruler to give everyone due reward or punishment. There is no reference of any creation or birth here.

4. Further the implication of the mantra is that one should be punished or rewarded only on basis of actions. So even a person whom people consider to be a potential criminal but does not conduct any such act in reality does not deserve punishment. This is exactly what is followed in any civilized country.

5. Vedas even have mantras where they do Namaste to criminals and thieves. This does not mean Vedas support them. Because the same Vedas ask for destruction of criminals. But Vedas also want us to realize that one should hate the tendency of crime but not the soul of the criminal. Because the same soul has capability to also reach salvation. Each soul is enlightened by same Supreme Lord. So while one should give due punishment to the culprit, that should not be with a feeling of hatred, but with a sense of duty for wellbeing of all. This appropriate behavior with all is the Namaste that Vedas talk of. We all should realize that even the worst of criminals are also children of God like you and me. We should thus hate their crimes but not the person behind.

6. Even if we take the meaning as asserted by fanatic minds, one fails to find the flaws. As per law of Karma, all get next birth as per their previous deeds. So the perverts and criminals of today who exhibit such tendencies from early childhood (like Akbar who beheaded an unconscious Hemu at age of 12) also take birth as per laws of Supreme. Any theist would agree to this.

But where does the mantra says that one should strive to be a criminal or lecher? At best one can say that the mantra says that lechers are also given birth by Supreme. Nowhere does the mantra says that if one is born naked doing urination in bed, he or she should continue the same throughout life! On contrary, to strive to be more and more mature is the mission of Vedas.

Perhaps, fanatics have a different agenda in life!

We openly challenge anyone to reproduce a single evidence from Vedas that promote any form of violence over peace-lovers or vulgarity or adultery or any other vice. But please do not waste our time with such frivolous allegations. 

Myth 3: Vedic God is a fraud

There are several mantras in Vedas that called God a fraud (Mayavi). Swami Dayanand suggests that one should use fraud to defeat enemies. So Vedic God is a cheater.

ऋग्वेद में अनेक जगह इन्द्र को मायी (धोकेबाज़) कहा गया हे. उदाहरण के तोर पर देखिये ऋग्वेद १:११:७

मायाभिरिन्द्र मायिनं तवं शुष्णमवातिरः |
विदुष टे तस्य मेधिरास्तेषां शरवांस्युत तिर ||

“हे इन्द्रदेव ! अपनी माया द्वारा आपने ‘शुषण’ को पराजित किया. जो बुद्धिमान आपकी इस माया को जानते हैं, उन्हें यश और बल देकर वृद्धि प्रदान करें.”

इस मंत्र का भावार्थ स्वामी दयानंद जी इस प्रकार करते हैं.

“बुद्धिमान मनुष्यों को ईश्वर आगया देता है  कि- साम, दाम, दंड और भेद की युक्ति से दुष्ट और शत्रु जनों क़ी निवृत्ति करके चक्रवर्ति राज्य क़ी यथावत उन्नति करनी चाहिए”

पंडित जी, साम, दाम, दंड और भेद को तो आप जानते ही होंगे.

साम : बहलाना फुसलाना
दाम : धन देकर चुप कराना
दंड : यदि बहलाने फुसलाने से न माने तो ताड़ना करना
भेद : फूट डालना

इसके अतिरिक्त ऋग्वेद ४:१६:९ में दयानादं जी नें भी अपने भाष्य में ‘मायावान’ का अनुवाद मक्कार किया है. पंडित जयदेव शर्मा (आर्य समाजी) ने अपने ऋग्वेद भाष्य में ‘मायावान’ का अनुवाद कुटिल मायावी किया है. तो सिद्ध हो गया कि वैदिक ईश्वर मायी अर्थात धोकेबाज़ है.

Reality:

1. We are not sure of the source of first translation quoted by the fanatic brigade. But let us review the complete essence provided by Swami Dayanand. It states:

“बुद्धिमान मनुष्यों को ईश्वर आगया देता है  कि- साम, दाम, दंड और भेद की युक्ति से दुष्ट और शत्रु जनों क़ी निवृत्ति करके चक्रवर्ति राज्य क़ी यथावत उन्नति करनी चाहिए तथा जैसे इस संसार में कपटी, छली और दुष्ट पुरुष वृद्धि को प्राप्त न हो, वैसा उपाय निरंतर करना चाहिए.

2. So it is clear that the likes of Osama Bin Laden and perpetrators of genocide be destroyed through all means. To catch a criminal, police is allowed to use fake decoys. All civilized societies allow use of such means to destroy criminals and terrorists. Hitler was captured in his bunker. Osama was eliminated in a night operation. Many a criminals are caught by police through this method. If criminals be allowed to freely use fraud but we do not counter them with Bheda (tact), then soon whole world will be Somalia!

Thankfully such stupid concepts do not appeal to most civilized nations of the world, and hence world is still a sensible place to live!

3. I challenge to provide one single reference where Vedas assert that Supreme Lord or a just king used fraud against innocent peaceful people. Not one single mantra would call for Fraud or cheating anyone simply because we disagree on certain points.

4. But yes, Vedas are very clear that Osamas of the world be destroyed under any circumstance – without harming innocents – by hook or crook.

5. But to ensure that one does not misinterpret such mantras to justify crookedness in general, Vedas also clearly specify that all innocent peaceful persons be protected at all costs. For example the 3rd mantra of same Sukta emphasizes that peaceful people be not only protected but one should also put special efforts to increase their prosperity under all circumstances.

In brief, Vedas recommend exactly what is the ideal benchmark for any civilized country of today.

6. The translation of Rigveda 4.16.9 as per Dayanand’s commentary is available on Arya Samaj Jamnagar site. There is not even remotest reference to Supreme Lord being fraud or Makkar or Mayavi as alleged by the fanatics. We also checked 5 other publications but failed to find such an interpretation anywhere.

On contrary, the Mantra asserts that the king should constantly increase prosperity of peaceful noble people and destroy the terrorists who commit fraud and hatred.

The controversial word here is Mayavanabrahma (मायावनब्रह्मा) = Mayavan + Abrahma (मायावान +अब्रह्मा). So instead of calling Brahma as Mayavan (fraud), the mantra calls Abrahma (or those devoid of intellect or opposite of Brahma) as fraud. The next word used for them is Dasyu (दस्यु) making the meaning very clear – Those who use fraud, hate intellect and perform terrorism should be destroyed.

Had fanatic minds known even the basics of Sandhi (rules of joining of words) in Hindi or Sanskrit, they would not have committed such a blunder. 

As per whatever scripture they believe in, they should plead apology for making such wily attacks on a scripture respected by millions as their foundation.

…..continued at http://agniveer.com/5327/vedas-hatred-2/

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

The 4 Vedas Complete (English)

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Comments

  1. Apolloreach says

    Agniveer,

    The attempts to deride Vedas by the stooges of Zakir Naik is about attempting to secure a badly needed PARITY, where, the violence quotient is concerned. Here is an instance of their depth and breadth of knowledge in Vedas. During a discussion on characterization of Agni, they challenged me to produce a verse that links Agni and Satya (the truth). When I pointed out the verse, they simply changed topics and continued to claim that Vedic God was fictitious. That is the level of understanding they have. Behind all the bravado lies high levels of insecurity. In another instance, they tied incorrect contexts between Atharvana Veda and Rig Veda and claimed that Vedas are inconsistent. When the evidence that contradicted the claim was shown, they,as always, switched to a different topic.

    The ones that invent violence in Vedas are those that cannot / will not take unequivocal position on life and death issues, without taking recourse to traditions of Hadith narrations, the Shariah laws that a geographical area is governed by, the fiqh school that one belongs to, having to determine whether or not one is a Quran ONLY Muslim or a Quran + Hadith Muslim. To me, if someone leaves our faith, killing him for that is wrong. We can attempt to explain to him intellectually and try to bring him back. But killing him is wrong & I state that with conviction. Can the same be stated with clarity by someone that is ZN’s stooge?

    The very fact that someone lives in our land and spits venom against the ancestral faith is a positive proof of what Dharmic ethos are about, where tolerance is concerned. Can this play out in the reverse in a place like Iran or Saudi Arabia? And the Islamic countries outside India are so insecure that they have to ban websites and make people like Salman Rushdi and Wafa Sultan and Taslim nasreen run for their lives. But one of the darshanas within the ambit of Hindu philosophy is the Nastik school. So there we go. Anybody with basic common sense will understand where the intolerance stems…

  2. KalBhairav says

    majority of human rights abuse cases that come in limelight today, and the most violent places of world today are those who claim to be Islamic.

    Bingo! I wouldnt debate with fanatics so much if they didnt want to create countries for themselves based on unprovable and unverifiable beliefs! Momins – If your religion is so true, why are you afraid of other religions and why do you prevent other religions from your lands with the attendant penalty of death?

    On a different note, I was surprised there are sects of Islam that believe in the soul’s reincarnation. Shubhan Allah!

  3. Atman says

    @ Agniveer,
    Pranam Agniveer, I request you to kindly elaborate on the so called Violent Verses in the Atharvaved.. it was very unsettling for me when i came to know a year ago that Vedas contain such verses.. then I read them On aryasamajjamnagar.com along with its Hindi Translation.. i was especially concerned about the Group of Verses which you mentioned in the article Atharvaved 5:12:47 to 74… i tried a lot to find the correct meaning even started reading the translations from the beginning of the Chapter.. but somehow find those violent verses very very hard to digest.. i mean why should you tear apart, or shred the person who is “Ved Nindak”???… I even called up Pt. Mahendra Pal Arya and had a discussion with him over this Matter on the phone for over half an hour but was not satisfied.. i even discussed them with my teacher Pt. Rameshchandra ji .. but it just doesnt seep in.. and i tell you its very very Unsettling… Today we are trying to get rid of the Capital Punishment from out Penal code.. and we know its not for nothing… and then when one comes to know about such verses from Vedas it becomes very disturbing… I also cannot believe that Rishis in Deep Meditation gaining the knowledge from Parmatma got such commandments of Tearing asunder, Shredding, burning smoking the “Ved nindaks”.. you have tried to explain in your article that the verses dont exactly mean that… its for people who go against the Laws of Nature.. but the translation on Aryasamajjamnagar.com says a totally different story.. even your explanation is very very short and not satisfying at all… I earnestly request you please please Explain that whole chapter in detail… dont take group of verses please take the Whole 5:12 Chapter of Atharvaved… no matter how long it takes to publish it on this site .. I will wait for another 6 months or a Year or any length of time you ask me to.. but brother please clear the clouds once and for all.

    Dhanyavaad

    • says

      @Atman

      We can do that over a period of time. However the crux is that:
      1. The verses do not necessarily talk about person but about traits. The subject of the Sukta is Brahmagavi – which means irrefutable laws of nature.

      No mantra says that you should kill anybody or destroy anybody. However the mantras says that those who attempt to destroy or counter the irrefutable laws of nature get destroyed themselves. Mantras detail how they get destroyed allegorically.

      The mantras say that this Brahmagavi is very powerful – it can bring greatest of bliss you you comply with it. But if you try to refute it, it becomes very brutal.

      There is nothing wrong about it – simply facts of common observations. Look at what happened to many a dictators and criminals. And those who escape being punished in this birth get to pay the debt in next birth as per laws of nature.

      The mantras can be interpreted in various domains – our own self, society, nation or world as a whole.

      The mantras thus also instruct the ruler on how to deal with terrorists and miscreants.

      2. As for Capital punishment, there is a movement to get rid of it. But yes, as per Vedas, that is not correct. For crimes like terrorism, murder and rape, Vedic culture does recommend capital punishment. This is not brutality but kindness to society as a whole. By punishing selective miscreants you ensure that others live trouble free.

      Please note that vedas do not recommend physical punishment for intellectual crimes. So if you refuse to believe in Vedas or have your own ideology, that does not make you criminal. But yes, if you get into terrorism, murders, rape, Vedas do assert that you be given the same treatment as meted out to Osama Bin Laden.

      3. Interestingly, there is no word as ‘Ved-Nindak’ in any of the mantras. As I said, the word is Brahmagavi or its equivalent. So the interpretation of mantras having anything to do with critic of vedas is absolutely baseless if you consider Ved to mean any book here. However, if you interpret Ved to mean knowledge, then it does make some sense.

      4. The Atharvaveda translation by Pt Khemkaran (one on Jamnagar site) is full of flaws. He translated Atharavveda long ago under trying circumstances. SO language, intent and interprations significantly err at places. Unfortunately Swami dayanand could not work on Atharvaveda due to his untimely murder. Refer translation by Pt Jaydeva Sharma and Vishwanath Vidyalankar which are much more authentic.

      Ideally we would like to have a contemporary interpretation of all the Vedas but we need to have significant resources to accomplish that. Such a feat has been rarely achieved in last 1000 years.

      Dhanyavad

      • Yogesh Maheshwari says

        “Swami dayanand could not work on Atharvaveda due to his <>.”

        Death can be timely or untimely, not the murder.

  4. says

    Our mail to those who posted some rebuttal to article of Pt MP Arya and made us an intermediary through public announcement. We request those who know them to communicate this message to them in case they do not receive the mail.
    ——————————
    Namaste

    Thanks for making us an intermediary to this debate. We are publishing response of Pt MP Arya as provided by him at http://www.scribd.com/doc/65624263/Reply-of-Pt-M-P-Arya-to-Wahabis

    He is currently on a tour of remote areas and even our team is travelling. It would be impossible for us to do justice to intermediation due to these exceptional situations. So it would be worthwhile if you could involve some other party in case you require intermediation. We also understand from your post that you are in direct contact with him.

    We sincerely hope that this dialogue brings our hearts closers and fosters an era of brotherhood so that we all can enjoy each other’s presence in Heaven (as defined by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan) without any prerequisite of demanding a change of religion.

    We all keenly await the outcomes of discussions among scholars like you so that the whole world is enlightened to proactively offer Namaz in temples and do Havan/ Kirtan in a mosque to foster brotherhood without fear of sin. We recall how Swami Shradhanand – icon of Hindu Muslim solidarity – recited Vedic mantras at Jama Masjid and united all.

    Om Shantih Shantih
    Agni

    PS:
    Please note that almost all misconceptions raised on Vedas in the article on your site have been covered in our articles http://agniveer.com/5320/vedas-hatred/ and http://agniveer.com/5327/vedas-hatred-2/

    We don’t blame you for the misconceptions as they are very old and get revived from time to time due to perverted actions of miscreants who silently support likes of Osama bin Laden, Racism, Casteism, punishment for apostates and hell for non-believers. They are getting stronger these days as evident by recent terrorist attacks but thankfully world is still a happy place due to tolerant people like you and me who refuse to believe that Almighty God would punish anyone merely because of his theological beliefs.

    We hope these articles would help remove these misconceptions and bring us closer.

  5. says

    This is the version we received. We have mailed Pt MP Arya regarding scan quality. But perhaps he is traveling currently. Meanwhile those seeking answers from him may find it legible enough to enlighten themselves.
    Admin

  6. ravi says

    For getting power in Andhra Congress took help of armed naxalites. Now Congress develops nexus of Christian Missionaries and Maoists to destabilize BJP-BJD led Govt. To remain in power in the North East provinces Congress shook hand ULFA to come back power in Assam. Congress and Communists are encouraging Bangladeshi infiltrators because they are their solid votes. Congress declared Nagaland a Christian province.
    Congress declared Nagaland a Christian province because there was Christians in the majority and they are growing continuously by conversion. This is the reason on the instruction of Sonia Gandhi there is a minority minister Antuley in the cabinet of Manmohan. She is inventing the ways for making Hindus in the minority.
    They are marking the districts villages where Muslims and Christians are in majority. Slowly and slowing they want to make situation in whole India as Nagaland. Demilitarization by India in J&K

  7. jay says

    The Hindus should become Communists and Rationalists. It is easy to convert a beleiving Hindu but a Rationalist will just laugh off the cooked up stories of Heaven and Hell of Christians and Muslims. One the one hand the Catholic Church detest the Communists and on the other they praise Joseph Stalin for preventing the spread of Islam in Europe. The Communist China had no hesitation in crushing the Islamic militancy in Uighur and resettling the Han Chinese from the Main Land. Can we imagine the Indian Govt settling Hindus from UP or Bihar in J & K after removing Article 370?

  8. KalBhairav says

    @jay:

    It is easy to convert a beleiving Hindu but a Rationalist will just laugh off the cooked up stories of Heaven and Hell of Christians and Muslims.

    I dont think so. Many of us here are *believing Hindus* of some sort. The difference between us and others who do fall prey to missionary propaganda is the level of our knowledge of Hinduism.

    In fact, I would argue, that a knowledgeable and spiritual Hindu who knows what he is talking about can convert an atheist into rational theology – aka Hinduism.

  9. Mohammed Ali says

    This site is full of hatred…. those who want to become a terrorist should follow “agniveer” because it gives all those misrepresenting information for the religion of the world including hinduism. I am a muslim and will be ever because I worships the God who have created you and me and the whole universe and each and everything present in it. No muslim worships anything except that God who is the one and the only creator. These “agniveer” people are giving the incomplete information of Islam everywhere. If you are really interested in knowing Islam than kick them up and approach a real Scholar of Islam. Approaching these people will not give u knowledge of Islam but the knowledge of hatred, I mean how to misrepresent some one

    • KalBhairav says

      @Mohammed Ali:

      Welcome to Agniveer/Satyagni.

      Where is there hatred? We are the ones saying that each of us is in different phase of the reincarnation cycle and hence as a result our perception of the divine is going to be different.

      You are the guys sayin “No no…ONLY we are right and will go to heaven, you are wrong and will go to hell” :-(

      Who is hateful here?

    • exmuslim says

      No you’re wrong on this,Agniveer tansforms fantic minded men to analyse things in a rationale way to which some get offended , those who want to become/ already are terrorist visit Madrassa like IRF which misinterprets and brings enemity among others.


      What proofs you have that you worship god and not a Satan? Cus your god has all the evil qualities .

      >

      All the religion in the worlds claim the same that our god created every thing,then why the should believe in your baloney seriously ?

      First you prove that your god is really a god? What proofs you have? Don’t say because Qur’an / muhamad says so, that a logical fallacy.

      What is so special about Islam? Nothing, bowing 5 times to a Satan , cutting penis to please Allah, reading a 7th century desert book which isn’t compiled in a proper manner, fasting for some hours and then munching bellyfull, killing animal on some eid by saying Allah is the most mericiful, visiting a pagan site called kaba once in life time which gives a passport to brothels ( Islamic paradie) The End.

      >
      We aren’t interest in a 7th century mambo jumbo. . No thanks!

      There is nothing knowledgeable in Islam, infact its a taboo, only fairly tales exists in islam like flying of donkey, weeping of stones etc and plus hatred against non Muslim.

    • exmuslim says

      //This site is full of hatred…. those who want to become a terrorist should follow “agniveer” because it gives all those misrepresenting information for the religion of the world including hinduism//

      No you’re wrong on this,Agniveer tansforms fantic minded men to analyse things in a rationale way to which some get offended , those who want to become/ already are terrorist visit Madrassa like IRF which misinterprets and brings enemity among others.

      //i am a muslim and will be ever because I worships the God//

      What proofs you have that you worship god and not a Satan? Cus your god has all the evil qualities .

      //God who have created you and me and the whole universe and each and everything present in it//

      All the religion in the worlds claim the same that our god created every thing,then why the should believe in your baloney seriously ?

      //No muslim worships anything except that God who is the one and the only creator//
      First you prove that your god is really a god? What proofs you have? Don’t say because Qur’an / muhamad says so, that a logical fallacy.

      //These “agniveer” people are giving the incomplete information of Islam everywhere//

      What is so special about Islam? Nothing, bowing 5 times to a Satan , cutting penis to please Allah, reading a 7th century desert book which isn’t compiled in a proper manner, fasting for some hours and then munching bellyfull, killing animal on some eid by saying Allah is the most mericiful, visiting a pagan site called kaba once in life time which gives a passport to brothels ( Islamic paradie) The End

      //If you are really interested in knowing Islam than kick them up and approach a real Scholar of Islam//

      We aren’t interested in a 7th century mambo jumbo. . No thanks

      //Approaching these people will not give u knowledge of Islam but the knowledge of hatred, I mean how to misrepresent some one//

      There is nothing knowledgeable in Islam, infact its a taboo, only fairly tales exists in islam like flying of donkey, weeping of stones etc and plus hatred against non Muslim.

    • Rahil Ex Muslim says

      There are several questions that I have which to my knowledge have not yet been answered by Islam:
      1- If the whole universe (all the stars and planets) were created for the earth then it should surround the earth, but here the earth is surrounding the sun and that surrounds the galaxy. The Quran failed to mention this.
      2- The whole universe was created for humans, the stars at night are used to find your path, etc., but there are billions of planets in the universe. Are they too created for us? What is the use for humans in this?
      3- Allah created all humans from two humans (Adam and Hawwa). Their sons and daughters were sisters and brothers, how could they marry and reproduce among themselves?
      4- Prophet Nooh collected a pair of all the animals on the earth in his Ark. How would it be possible to collect them all? There are still unnamed and unidentified animals on earth. There are also many variety of animals in its own genus, for example; there are more than 200 types of frogs, 300 types of snakes and etc.,
      5- Human and chimpanzee DNA match over 99%, why is it so?
      6- Science has proved that millions of animals lived before the human, why?

      I have left islam for my self respect and for future of my kids as I dont want them to be called terrorists….I feel islam is not for current age and shud be voided.I considering following Buddhism and Hinduism..

      Let me know if any muslim can answer me…

  10. asker says

    I have a question about Yajur Veda 30.5 which you translated it as

    ”May the Lord (of world as well as country) give due reward or punishment to various people – Brahmin for promotion of wisdom, Kshatriya for right leadership, Vaishya for conduct of business, Shudras for their selfless service, thief for thriving in darkness, murderers for killing noble people, impotents for sinful acts (one who conducts sinful acts is impotent as per Vedas as he or she is incapable of producing anything worthwhile), terrorists for attacking innocent people, lechers for adultery, criminals for lowly acts..”

    it would be nice if you quote the sanskrit words which you translated as ”May the Lord (of world as well as country) give due reward or punishment to various people”

    Thank you and I hope I will get my answer.

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