Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT), which today having been rechristened as Indo – Aryan Migration (IAM) theory (given that the original position is no longer tenable) is the largest myth that was ever propagated by historians with vested interests that still retain vestiges to their Western paymasters. In this post the scope is restricted to visiting Veda samhitas and Tamil literary works from the Sangam period that render the AIT / IAM theories redundant. This post will also show the integrated, continuous nature of the deities that were worshipped from the now parched Saraswati river basin and the Vaigai river basin in Madura, Tamilnadu. We are taking Tamil as representative of Dravidian languages because, unlike the other 3 Southern states, it is in Tamil Nadu that the political and societal idea of Aryan / Dravidian divide is more vocally and visibly pronounced.
Note: We are merely exploring historical and literary traditions here and do not attempt to analyze any method of worship.
The hoax of Aryan-Dravidian divide
Rig Veda does not give even a shred of evidence of any invasion or migration to have taken place from outside or the Rishis of Vedas having been part of expeditions into India from somewhere else. But Indologists and apologists of AIT / IAM use Rig Veda to try to establish their standpoint.
They use the invocation of Indra by Angiras family of Rishis to slay the likes of Dasyus and Panis as evidences that an invading Aryan army slaughtered the aborigines of India that were Dravidians.
Before we move ahead let us establish what Dravida means.
In Sanskrit, it loosely means liquid like or watery. The root word for this is Drava in Sanskrit.
And importantly, in Tamil, the word Dravidian or Dravida hardly gets mentioned in the Sangam literature of Tamils.
The corpus of Sangam literature is the most authentic chronicling of the life, times, theology, events, wars, business, natural calamities, Tamil grammar etc of the Tamils starting from 600 BC to 200 AD. To put it in another way, if hypothetically the invading Aryans pushed the Dravidians South of Vindyas and killed many Dravidians (based on Rig Veda), the earliest Tamil literary works obviously ought to have mentioned the mayhem in the so called Dravidian literary works of the Sangam age.
The Tamil literary works started using the word “Dravida” only in the 9th century AD but that too only in the context of linguistics. And a Tamil lexicon of the 9th century AD called “Senthan Divakaram” uses Dravidam to denote Tamil.
This itself is sufficient to realize that the whole Dravida story is a modern hoax without any historical basis. In fact it was only in late 19th century that Robert Caldwell, a proclaimed evangelist who came to India for sole purpose of proselytization and spreading Christianity, first used the word ‘Dravidian’ to further his agenda. And then the term took political colors. And once politicized, it is always in benefit of all political forces to keep the myth alive so that they can cook their rotis.
The hoax of evidence from Rig Veda
Now, let us move to understanding how the AIT / IAM apologists use Dasyus to claim that invading Aryans slaughtered the so called native Dasyus and let us also explore a few questions. The apologists point to Rig Veda 10/48, where, Indra is seen to have destroyed Dasyus, Vrtras and Panis with his might, captured wealth and also mentions that those in his company will not be felled.
But what the apologists do not delve into is to understand the characterization of the likes of Dasyus , Vrtras and Panis (the last 2 being a kind of Dasyu) in Rig Veda. Who are the Dasyus?
When we look up Rig Veda 1/33/1 – 10, it becomes obvious that the wealth that Indra captures is actually knowledge.
RV/1/33/1 ends with “gavam ketam param avarjate nah”. It means supreme knowledge of the luminous cows. And the whole verse means – come let us go seeking the cows to Indra, it is he that increases the thought in us, for us, he releases supreme knowledge of the luminous cows.
Let us first understand, in Vedas, those that do the Soma pressing or other Vedic sacrifices for divinities are called yajyu. The divinities to whom these sacrifices are offered are called yajata. The yaju by virtue of his goodwill is sukratu. Sukratus by virtue of their works find the “divine word” and having found the divine word, a sukratu becomes the singer of the word.
But Dasyu is the opposite principle of both Sukratu and Yajyu. Dasyu is also called “A”yajyu (opposite of Yajyu).And interestingly an Ayajyu is a hater of the singer of the divine word (this quality is Ayajyu called brahmadvisa) and IMPORTANTLY an Ayajyu is ANASA (has no mouth to speak) and has no mental faculties (Amanyamana). And across the Vedas the Dasyus like Panis and Vritras withhold the kine (the kine are not physical cows and sheep but they point to knowledge) and this kine has to be forcefully extracted with Indra’s help by man. And in another place in RV, it is stated that Panis (a type of Dasyu), plunders and steals the cows and hides them in his cave. With the help of Indra the knowledge, the luminous cows are secured by man. RV/6/51/14 calls Indra to destroy the Panis and equates Panis to wolf.
And let us also look at a few more items that Indra won by destroying Dasyus, as per western indologists.
RV/3/34/7-10:
7 Lord of the brave, Indra who rules the people gave freedom to the Gods by might and battle. Wise singers glorify with chanted praises these his achievements in Vivasvan’s dwelling.
8 Excellent, Conqueror, the victory-giver, the winner of the light and Godlike Waters,He who hath won this broad earth and this heaven, -in Indra they rejoice who love devotions.
9 He gained possession of the Sun and Horses, Indra obtained the Cow who feedeth many.Treasure of gold he won; he smote the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour.
10 He took the plants and days for his possession; he gained the forest trees and air’s mid-region.Vala he cleft, and chased away opponents: thus was he tamer of the overweening.
Indra secures forest trees, mid air, plants and days.
Now, if Dasyus were HUMAN non-Aryan tribes, how come Indra secures the DAYS and MID-AIR from mortals?
The allegory of Dasyus continues in the Rig Veda, where, Indra then actually chases Dasyus out of heaven and earth by the power of his thunderbolt. Indra’s greatness keeps increasing and the luminosity of Indra leaves Dayus with nowhere to hide. Indra recovers the lost Sun and as this Sun rises, it illuminates the caves where Vala (a type of Dasyus) has hidden the luminous cows.
So we clearly have a scenario that completely contradicts the possibility of Dasyus ever being Dravidian tribes that Indra destroyed.
The Rig Veda based attempts to prop up the non-existent AIT/IAM falls flat. Rest assured Dravidians (of AIT/IAM) do have noses and are able to speak and are intelligent people unlike the Dasyus of Rig Veda.
For more on Vedas and Dasyu, please refer http://agniveer.com/vedas-dasyu-hinduism/
Evidence from Sangam Literature
Now let us travel to Tamil / Dravidian land to see if Tamils were really people that were completely different from the so called Aryans and if they showed signs of being brutalized by invading Aryans.
While there are extensive works that fall under the Sangam literature, let us pick some of the most important works to see what the Dravidians worshipped as their deities.
It is important to note that Sangam literature categorizes land into Mullai (forests), Kurinchi (hills), Marudam (Farm lands), Neidal (Sea Coast) and Palai (Barren).
Tolkappaiyam mentions the following as the presiding deities of these lands – Mullai: Tirumal (Vishnu), Kurinchi: Seyon (or Kumara / Murugua/Kartikeya), Marudam: Vendan (Indra), Neidal: Varunan (Varuna) and Palai: Korravai (Shakti).
Another key Sangam literary work called Purananuru talks about the legend of Lord Shiva destroying the three cities (Tripura Samhara). Shiva is said to have taken the lofty Meru mountain in his hand as bow and with the terrific serpent as bow string and a single arrow destroyed the cities sending them into into flames. And the deity of Seyon (Kumara / Kartikeya), is repeatedly seen across Purananuru and Ahananuru as being the progeny of Shiva.
This ties us back to Agni,the Kumara, template of the Puranic Kartikeya, being an aspect of Rudra.
Some AIT / IAM apologists try to make Shiva to be an exclusive Dravidian deity to keep the theory running.
Shiva of Puranas is derived from aspects of Rudra of Vedas.
In Vedas, if you delve deeper into attributes of Rudra, across Rig Veda or the Rudram / Chamakam sections of Yajur Veda, a common set of attributes is easy to be seen.
And Shiva is all but one aspect of Rudra that is mentioned in Rudram / Chamakam. While the usage of Rudra has been replaced at large by Shiva, the attributes of Vedic Shiva / Rudra and those described in works like Periya Puranam of Tamil literature are the same.
In places like Tiruvannamalai or Chaidmabaram, in addition to Thevaram, Rudram / Chamakam is also recited, if Shiva of Tamils and Shiva or Puranas / Vedas are different.
If anything, the Taittriya Samhita of Yajur Veda (where Rudram / Chamakam occurs) is a tradition that is living primarily in Tamil Nadu, AP and Karataka, today.
Conclusion
From this small attempt to put things in perspective, it is very easy to understand that the AIT/IAM, based on Rig Veda and the premier Tamil Sangam literary works is a farce. If anything, it is easy to see that this great land has been inhabited by people that belong to the same Vedic family.
Differences based on linguistics, skin color, local culture, cuisines etc are being played up by vested interests today, as it were done 150 years ago.
To repeat it, this land was inhabited by followers of the same Vedic Dharma until the early part of last millennium.
P.S: We have not even touched the theological works of Alwars (Vaishnavites) and Nayanmars (Shaivites) to establish the oneness of the Vedic dharma of this land. If one reviews the entire hoax of AIT and Dravida-Arya divide would fall flat as creative fantasies of a drowsy mind after an extra peg!
This post is also available in Tamil at http://agniveer.com/aryan-invasion-ta/
http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/dayanand-vedas-4/#comment-8
वेद में आर्य-दास-युद्ध सम्बन्धी पाश्चात्य मत का खंडन
इतिहास की छठी कक्षा की पुस्तक को उठा कर देखे तो उसमे लिखा मिलेगा की आर्य लोग बाहर से इस देश में आये और उन्होंने इस देश में रह रहे मूलनिवासियो जैसे द्रविड़, कोल, संथाल जिन्हें दस्यु या दास कहा जाता था उन्हें युद्ध में हरा दिया ,उनकी बस्तियों का विध्वंश कर दिया और उन्हें दक्षिण भारत की और धकेल दिया.आर्य गौर वर्ण के थे जबकि दस्यु काले रंग और (अनास) चपटी नाक वाले थे. आर्य देवताओं की पूजा करते थे जबकि दस्यु लिंग पूजा (शीशनदेव) की पूजा करते थे. आर्य संस्कृत बोलते थे जबकि दस्यु विभिन्न भाषा बोलते थे.आर्य लोगो ने दस्युओ के साथ अच्छा व्यवहार नहीं किया और उनसे कठिन और नीचा कार्य भी करवाया.
इस मिथक कल्पना का श्रेय मूल रूप से पाश्चात्य विद्वानों? को जाता हैं जिन्होंने दो प्रयोजन को सिद्ध करने के लिए इस मिथक को प्रोत्साहित किया. सर्वप्रथम तो अंग्रेजो की फुट डालो और राज करो की निति थी दूसरी वेदों के प्रति साधारण जनमानस की रुचि को कम कर ईसाइयत का प्रचार प्रसार कर धरमांतरण को बढ़ावा देना था. १९४७ में अंग्रेज तो चले गए पर इस मिथक को सत्य बताकर आज भी विश्व विद्यालाओ में शोध हो रहे हैं और राजनितिक दल अपनी अपनी रोटिया सकने में लगे हुए हैं. डॉ आंबेडकर जो जातिवाद के खिलाफ थे ने ब्राह्मणों का प्रतिवाद करने के लिए शुद्र वर्ण को मूलनिवासी और स्वर्ण वर्ण को बाहर से आया हुआ आर्य घोषित कर दिया,दक्षिण भारतीय नेताओं जैसे पेरियार आदि ने भाषा और संस्कृति के नाम पर आर्य-द्रविड़ की रेखा खिंच कर अपनी राजनीतिक रोटियां सेकनी चाही, ईश्वर की सत्ता को अस्वीकार करने वाले नास्तिक कम्युनिस्ट विचारधारा वालो को वेदों की व्यर्थ निंदा का मौका मिल गया, आदिवासी इलाको में हिन्दुओं का धरमांतरण कर ईसाई बनाने में लगी हुई चर्च को सत्य से अनभिज्ञ भोले भोले वनवासिओ को भड़काने का मौका मिल गया.
इस प्रकार अगर समग्र रूप से सोचे तो इस मिथक से हमारे देश , हमारी जाति , हमारे संसाधन, हमारी शक्ति का कितना ह्रास हुआ इसकी कल्पना भी नहीं की जा सकती. अगर यही ऊर्जा राष्ट्रहित और जाति के उत्थान में लगती तो उससे समस्त मानव जाति का कल्याण होता.
“किसी संस्कृत ग्रन्थ में वा इतिहास में नहीं लिखा की आर्य लोग इरान से…
Bilkul sahi kaha he aapne….in firangio aur ku6 gaddar logo k karan Hindu dharma ka Prachin Itihas koi nai jaan saka… Shriram hame Sadbuddhi de….Jay Hindurashtra!
एक गलती जो आप यहाँ कर रहे है जिस पर शायद आपको आष्चर्य होगा कि डॉ आंबेडकर तो इस मिथक के घोर विरोधी थे ये बात आप चाहे तो गूगल कर सकते है
Let us think outside the box for a while. After the Noah’s flood, 8 persons survived. Noah, his 3 sons viz. Shem (means royal one), Ham (means dark) and Japheth (means extended boundry). There were 70 tribes into existence when Abraham lived in Ur, Iraq thru the sons of Shem, Ham and Japheth. First King Nimrod was ruling over all these tribes and with the knowledge and wisdom of the inscription (teachings of fallen angels/vedas) which Elam’s (eldest son of Shem) grandson Kainam had found, he was building a tower of babel. He was a great sorcerer. He said: We will build a tower and reach heavens and there we will go and make war with those who brought flood on earth. He was able to communicate directly with those rebellious angels. So God came down and divided their language. Hence, it is called the tower of babel (confusion) and the people were divided. This is the year when Peleg (means division) was born. Further, Noah divided the earth amongst his three sons by lot. And, Noah’s sons also divided their portions to their sons the same year. A jubilee year is 49 years. Book of Jubilee : [Chapter 8]
1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, [1373 A.M.] in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam (Elamites/Indians/Persians) , and she 2 bare him a son in the third year in this week, [1375 A.M.] and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for 3 himself a city. And he found a writing which former generations (fallen angels and nephilims, birth of vedic wisdom) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and 4 stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was 5 afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, [1429 A.M.] in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year [1432 A.M.] he begat a son, and 6 called his name Shelah; for he said: ‘Truly I have been sent.’ [And in the fourth year he was born], and Shelah grew up and took to himself a wife, and her name was Mu’ak, the daughter of Kesed, his father’s brother, in the one and thirtieth jubilee, in the fifth week, in the first year [1499 A.M.]
7 thereof. And she bare him a son in the fifth year [1503 A.M.] thereof, and he called his name Eber: and he took unto himself a wife, and her name was ‘Azurad, the daughter of Nebrod, in the thirty-second 8 jubilee, in the seventh week, in the third year thereof. [1564 A.M.] And in the sixth year [1567 A.M.] thereof, she bare him son, and he called his name Peleg; for in the days when he was born the children of Noah began 9 to divide the earth amongst themselves: for this reason he called his name Peleg. And they 10 divided (it) secretly amongst themselves, and told it to Noah. And it came to pass in the beginning of the thirty-third jubilee [1569 A.M.] that they divided the earth into three parts, for Shem and Ham and Japheth, according to the inheritance of each, in the first year in the first week, when one of us 11 who had been sent, was with them. And he called his sons, and they drew nigh to him, they and their children, and he divided the earth into the lots, which his three sons were to take in possession, and they reached forth their hands, and took the writing out of the bosom of Noah, their father. 12 And there came forth on the writing as Shem’s lot the middle of the earth which he should take as an inheritance for himself and for his sons for the generations of eternity, from the middle of the mountain range of Rafa, from the mouth of the water from the river Tina, and his portion goes towards the west through the midst of this river, and it extends till it reaches the water of the abysses, out of which this river goes forth and pours its waters into the sea Me’at, and this river flows into the great sea. And all that is towards the north is Japheth’s, and all that is towards the 13 south belongs to Shem. And it extends till it reaches Karaso: this is in the bosom of the tongue 14 which looks towards the south. And his portion extends along the great sea, and it extends in a straight line till it reaches the west of the tongue which looks towards the south: for this sea is 15 named the tongue of the Egyptian Sea. And it turns from here towards the south towards the mouth of the great sea on the shore of (its) waters, and it extends to the west to ‘Afra, and it extends till it reaches the waters of the river Gihon, and to the south of the waters of Gihon, to the 16 banks of this river. And it extends towards the east, till it reaches the Garden of Eden, to the south thereof, [to the south] and from the east of the whole land of Eden and of the whole east, it turns to the east and proceeds till it reaches the east of the mountain named Rafa, and it descends 17 to the bank of the mouth of the river Tina. This portion came forth by lot for Shem and his sons, 18 that they should possess it for ever unto his generations for evermore. And Noah rejoiced that this portion came forth for Shem and for his sons, and he remembered all that he had spoken with his mouth in prophecy; for he had said: ‘Blessed be the Lord God of Shem And may the Lord dwell in the dwelling of Shem.’ 19 And he knew that the Garden of Eden is the holy of holies, and the dwelling of the Lord, and Mount Sinai the centre of the desert, and Mount Zion -the centre of the navel of the earth: these three 20 were created as holy places facing each other. And he blessed the God of gods, who had put the 21 word of the Lord into his mouth, and the Lord for evermore. And he knew that a blessed portion and a blessing had come to Shem and his sons unto the generations for ever -the whole land of Eden and the whole land of the Red Sea, and the whole land of the east and India, and on the Red Sea and the mountains thereof, and all the land of Bashan, and all the land of Lebanon and the islands of Kaftur, and all the mountains of Sanir and ‘Amana, and the mountains of Asshur in the north, and all the land of Elam, Asshur, and Babel, and Susan (capital of Elam) and Ma’edai, and all the mountains of Ararat, and all the region beyond the sea, which is beyond the mountains of Asshur towards the 22 north, a blessed and spacious land, and all that is in it is very good. And for Ham came forth the second portion, beyond the Gihon towards the south to the right of the Garden, and it extends towards the south and it extends to all the mountains of fire, and it extends towards the west to the sea of ‘Atel and it extends towards the west till it reaches the sea of Ma’uk -that (sea) into which 23 everything which is not destroyed descends. And it goes forth towards the north to the limits of Gadir, and it goes forth to the coast of the waters of the sea to the waters of the great sea till it draws near to the river Gihon, and goes along the river Gihon till it reaches the right of the Garden 24 of Eden. And this is the land which came forth for Ham as the portion which he was to occupy 25 for ever for himself and his sons unto their generations for ever. And for Japheth came forth the third portion beyond the river Tina to the north of the outflow of its waters, and it extends north- 26 easterly to the whole region of Gog, and to all the country east thereof. And it extends northerly to the north, and it extends to the mountains of Qelt towards the north, and towards the sea of 27 Ma’uk, and it goes forth to the east of Gadir as far as the region of the waters of the sea. And it extends until it approaches the west of Fara and it returns towards ‘Aferag, and it extends easterly 28 to the waters of the sea of Me’at. And it extends to the region of the river Tina in a north-easterly direction until it approaches the boundary of its waters towards the mountain Rafa, and it turns 29 round towards the north. This is the land which came forth for Japheth and his sons as the portion of his inheritance which he should possess for himself and his sons, for their generations for ever; 30 five great islands, and a great land in the north. But it is cold, and the land of Ham is hot, and the land of Shem is neither hot nor cold, but it is of blended cold and heat.
[Chapter 9]
1 And Ham divided amongst his sons, and the first portion came forth for Cush towards the east, and to the west of him for Mizraim (Egypt), and to the west of him for Put, and to the west of him 2 [and to the west thereof] on the sea for Canaan. And Shem also divided amongst his sons, and the first portion came forth for Elam and his sons, to the east of the river Tigris till it approachcs the east, the whole land of India, and on the Red Sea on its coast, and the waters of Dedan, and all the mountains of Mebri and Ela, and all the land of Susan and all that is on the side of Pharnak 3 to the Red Sea and the river Tina. And for Asshur came forth the second Portion, all the land of 4 Asshur and Nineveh and Shinar and to the border of India, and it ascends and skirts the river. And for Arpachshad came forth the third portion, all the land of the region of the Chaldees to the east of the Euphrates, bordering on the Red Sea, and all the waters of the desert close to the tongue of the sea which looks towards Egypt, all the land of Lebanon and Sanir and ‘Amana to the border of the 5 Euphrates. And for Aram there came forth the fourth portion, all the land of Mesopotamia between the Tigris and the Euphrates to the north of the Chaldees to the border of the mountains 6 of Asshur and the land of ‘Arara. And there came forth for Lud the fifth portion, the mountains of Asshur and all appertaining to them till it reaches the Great Sea, and till it reaches the east of 7, 8 Asshur his brother. And Japheth also divided the land of his inheritance amongst his sons. And the first portion came forth for Gomer to the east from the north side to the river Tina; and in the north there came forth for Magog all the inner portions of the north until it reaches to the sea of 9 Me’at. And for Madai (Madai “middle land” (sons were Achon, Zeelo, Chazoni and Lotalso) – also Mada, Amada, Madae, Madea, Manda, Maday, Media, Madaean, Mata, Matiene, Mitani, Mitanni, Minni, Megala (Medes, Aryans, Persians, Parsa, Parsees, Achaemenians, Manneans, Caspians, Kassites, Iranians, Achaemenians, Kurds, north and NW Indians, Romani, Pathans, Hazaras), including the peoples of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Khazachstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan and Kyrgyzstan, and other related groups) came forth as his portion that he should posses from the west of his two 10 brothers to the islands, and to the coasts of the islands. And for Javan came forth the fourth 11 portion every island and the islands which are towards the border of Lud. And for Tubal there came forth the fifth portion in the midst of the tongue which approaches towards the border of the portion of Lud to the second tongue, to the region beyond the second tongue unto the third tongue. 12 And for Meshech came forth the sixth portion, all the region beyond the third tongue till it 13 approaches the east of Gadir. And for Tiras there came forth the seventh portion, four great islands in the midst of the sea, which reach to the portion of Ham [and the islands of Kamaturi 14 came out by lot for the sons of Arpachshad as his inheritance]. And thus the sons of Noah divided unto their sons in the presence of Noah their father, and he bound them all by an oath, imprecating 15 a curse on every one that sought to seize the portion which had not fallen (to him) by his lot. And they all said, ‘So be it; so be it ‘ for themselves and their sons for ever throughout their generations till the day of judgment, on which the Lord God shall judge them with a sword and with fire for all the unclean wickedness of their errors, wherewith they have filled the earth with transgression and uncleanness and fornication and sin.
THIS IS HISTORICAL RECORD THAT MEDES AND ELAMITES LIVED TOGETHER SINCE NOAH’S TIME.
[Chapter 10]
And Canaan saw the land of Lebanon to the river of Egypt, that it was very good, and he went not into the land of his inheritance to the west (that is to) the sea, and he dwelt in the land of Lebanon, eastward and westward from the border of Jordan and from the border 30 of the sea. And Ham, his father, and Cush and Mizraim his brothers said unto him: ‘Thou hast settled in a land which is not thine, and which did not fall to us by lot: do not do so; for if thou dost do so, thou and thy sons will fall in the land and (be) accursed through sedition; for by sedition 31 ye have settled, and by sedition will thy children fall, and thou shalt be rooted out for ever. Dwell 32 not in the dwelling of Shem; for to Shem and to his sons did it come by their lot. Cursed art thou, and cursed shalt thou be beyond all the sons of Noah, by the curse by which we bound our- 33 selves by an oath in the presence of the holy judge, and in the presence of Noah our father.’ But he did not harken unto them, and dwelt in the land of Lebanon from Hamath to the entering of 34,35 Egypt, he and his sons until this day. And for this reason that land is named Canaan. And Japheth and his sons went towards the sea and dwelt in the land of their portion, and Madai saw the land of the sea and it did not please him, and he begged a (portion) from Elam and Asshur and Arpachshad, his wife’s brother, and he dwelt in the land of Media, near to his wife’s brother until 36 this day. And he called his dwelling-place, and the dwelling-place of his sons, Media, after the name of their father Madai.
[Canaan “down low” (sons were Zidon, Heth, Amori, Gergashi, Hivi, Arkee, Seni, Arodi, Zimodi and Chamothi) – also Canaanites, Cana, Chna, Chanani, Chanana, Canaana, Kana, Kenaanah, Kena’ani, Kena’an, Kn’nw, Kyn’nw, Kinnahu, Kinahhi, Kinahni, Kinahna, Kinahne (Mongols, Asians, Orientals, Chinese, Tibetans, Taiwanese, Thais, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, Japanese, Eskimos, American Indians, Malayasians, Indonesians, Filipinos, Hawaiians, Maoris, Polynesians, Tahitians, Guamanians, Samoans, Fijians, Tongans, Tokelauans, Tuvaluans, Pacific Islanders4 and related groups].
There is zero thinking outside the box in your post. All your thinking is rigidly within the Jewish mythology box that Christianity is built upon.
This guy is trapped in dogma and myth; he is kidding himself if he thinks he is thinking out of the box. The only box he is thinking outside of a box inside a billion other boxes. Yes, he thought outside of one box and now he has 999 million boxes to think outside of before he actually gets it.
The Book of Jubilee is a historical book maintained since before even the Bible was written. Bible consists of Torah (the Law), prophets, books of wisdom, gospel (good news) and epistles. Bible references many books like Book of Jasher, Book of Enoch, Book of Kings of Israel, Book of Kings of Judah, etc. All these books are historical records. A Jubilee year is 49 years and a Jubilee week is 7 years. A.M. means Anno Mundi from the Year of Creation. You can find more history records in Talmud, the commentary on Torah and the Oral Law in written form. Well, it is very voluminous and it takes 14 years to study it one time. You can also find more details about the Elamite King Kedarlaomer (Kudur Laghumal), which bible also mentions in Genesis, in this Talmud. Idolatry started somewhere during King Nimrod’s time, a great sorcerer, a great warrior and the first king of the world after the Noah’s flood. The spirits of the dead giants children of nephilims (fallen angels) were left on earth until the judgment day by God’s decree as they proceeded from angels and women. They do not have a place in heavens for them where dead go. These demon spirits started to mislead people and idolatry was born as per Book of Jubilee and Book of Enoch. Enoch was the 7th generation from Adam. Most revered and feared by those fallen angels. He mediated between God and those rebellious fallen angels. Enoch has become the scribe of God in heavens. He walked with God for 300 years and was no more. God took him directly to heaven, he did not die. Noah is 10th generation from Adam. Real veda is rig veda, however, it still is a poetry with a little truth in it. Rest of your vedas and books are a twisted mythical poetries. When you believe in lies, you live a life of lies. You can read world’s greatest ancient historians like Josephus and Herodotus. They have covered good amount of Elamite/Indian history. King Darius I the great mentions that his ancestors were Ram-anna, Bharat-sin and Turssart (Dasarath). They were speaking aramaic or aggadic languages. And, these names are phonetic equivalent of Hindi Ram, Bharat and Dasarath (possesser of 10 chariots). Susa was the capital of old Elam. Elam (means eternity) was the eldest son of Shem (means royal one), eldest son of Noah. Susan was Elam’s daughter. As we know that in ancient times, ancestor worship became common. The 70 nations (Genesis 10 Table of Nations) which were born out of the three sons of Noah viz.Shem, Ham and Japheth were named after them. Their races were referred to as Shemitic, Hamatic and Japhethite. Early history shows the Japhethites split into two groups. One group settled in the region of present-day India and Central Asia, and the other group in the European theater. Indo-European languages originate from those people groups who migrated throughout western Eurasia (Europe, the Near East, Anatolia, and the Caucasus). Together they form what is known as the “Indo-European” family of nations. Both of these divisions trace their ancestry back to Japheth. For example, early Aryans knew him as Djapatischta (Chief of the race), Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos, North and NW Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter, the Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (pronounced “sheef” or “shaif”—and recorded his name in their early genealogies as the son of Noah, the forebear of their various peoples), and the variant Seskef was used by early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis had been lost, or was non-existent.
There were many ethnic groups in the Middle East. Jews were one of the ethnic groups of the Middle East and they had their own myths and stories that they wrote down and compiled called the Torah. Their fables apply to Jews. It does not concern non-Jews and is not applicable to non-Jews. Mac because he fully believes in Jewish mythology views the whole world through this prism. There is no fact behind people being descended from the Jewish tales of the people he listed above. It is pure blind belief.
You an Elamite and me too. You are my flesh and blood. I am here to discourse the truth not to put you down. I love my people as surely as I worship the Living God. But, truth never changes, it changes things around it. I am here to share it not to put you down, otherwise my love dont count. God is love. He created all creation not to keep it empty but to fill it and breathed His spirit in our nostrils and called us Adam (mankind); and then He made us Lords over all creation and life to rule over. God is love. Love covers all wrong doing. And if you have love, you have God in you, otherwise not.
Your blind religious dogma is not true but religious bias. We don’t need your hate filled religious bigotry to all other religions in the entire world that you twisted try to pass off as love. Don’t have to tell a Hindu that God is love. We knew that thousands of years before Christianity ever existed through our own ancient faith which is far older than yours. God loves us Hindus as we are as Hindus. You know what is real wrong doing – what you are doing, spewing hatred and demonizing denigrating all other religions of the world just because they exist and people are following them instead of your faith. And it is so sad that it is your faith Christianity that teaches you to be such a douche bag.
India’s history do not match with the world history and neither the history of other countries. Assyrians, Babylonians, Old Elamites, Cannanites, Hittitites, Medians, Egyptians, Greeks and Hebrews maintained accurate history. Their history matches and corresponds. Only Indian history do not match with any of those ancient people and nations. Do U even know that Kurds are also Elamites? Do you even know that there were 300 major gods and goddesses worshipped when Abraham was alive and that Vishnu/Shiv were one of them? If you youtube for very ancient artifacts, you will see the symbolism of SNAKE and the third Eye in all of them. Serpant is the symbol of Satan. Youtube it and see for yourself.
The Torah is the book of Jewish myths about their own Middle Eastern ethnic group, Jews. It does not apply to non-Jews. By blind faith he believes the Middle Eastern Jewish myths to be historical, and thus views the word through Jewish mythology. Read instead “The Born Again Skeptic’s Guide to the Bible” http://atheistmovies.blogspot.com/2009/08/born-again-skeptics-guide-to-bible-ruth.html The Bible is a mix of the Torah and New Testament of Jesus.
Myths are local demon and fallen angel worship. Abraham’s God is the only Living God and there is no other. You vedic relgion followers worship objects of creation, sun, moon, stars and local demons; and fallen angels. Serpant is the symbol of Satan, Shiva. U worship his mythological DICK LINGUM, you pour milk to milk a stone lingum and jains do the same to the naga bawas. Wash their dicks with milk and then drink that milk. Your gods are satan’s lies and corruption of flesh, sex oriented. U R blindfaithed. Come out of idolatry and God will save India. Isaiah: Cursed are those who live in the sun scorched countries. Idolatry brings darkness both inside and outside, chaos, confusion, lies, bloodthirstiness, violence, corruption, sex glorification, bestiality and blindfaith. These are the fruits of idolatry. Idolatry is an abomination to God, the Living God Almighty.
Seriously, Mac, you come on this site and you have no idea what the Vedic followers of this sight believe in. You come on here talking about snakes and third eye. Do even know what we believe in. We do not believe in idol worship of any form. Yes, there are idol worshiping Hindus that do come on here. And we do share things with them; but we do not believe in idol worship. You have no idea what we believe in and you go off talking about snakes and third eye. You have done a poor job of researching us. You are a pathetic fool. Take your own advice and step outside of the box and for once understand what the other person believes in before you start making stuff up.
Mac you say cursed are those who live in sun scorched countries, well where did Jesus come from? Oh yeah, uber sun scorched Middle East. Cursed is Jesus and all the Middle Eastern Jews and Christians like Jesus and his followers according to your demented mind. You know who is cursed? You. You are cursed to live in your own bigoted hate filled ugly mind shaped that way by Christianity day in and day out. The Middle Eastern Jewish version of god is NOT the one living God that everyone in the entire world has to follow. Every ethnic group developed their own religion and spirituality and concept of God. Who are the Middle Eastern Jews to be above all other races and ethnic groups in the world? You want us to be like you and follow Middle Eastern Jewish mythology via Christianity to be as brainwashed in dogma like your sorry self. To vilify not only our ancestral religions but the religions of all other people who have done us no harm like you just because they are following a different religion than you? You are an ugly person. You are a hideous bigot and it is so sad that it is your faith that teaches you to demonize and degrade every other single religion on earth other than your own because in your grossly intolerant belief system only your faith should exist on earth. What you have shown is that Christianity teaches you to be a hate filled disgusting bigot who sees all other religions in a vile way that all the world sees in your writing. You think you put our faith down by demonizing and degrading it? No. You show us the filth of intolerance that Christianity teaches. I feel sorry for you. Your world is so ugly. You encounter a great diversity of religions in the world and all you want to do is destroy them and have everyone follow your religion alone. It is no wonder Muslims talk just like you since Islam is an offshoot of Christianity. You should meet Fatima here who comments on this sites. You two are twins.
Mac, show me where in the Vedas it say, “You vedic relgion followers worship objects of creation, sun, moon, stars and local demons; and fallen angels,” anything close to what you said. Prove it. Quote from the Vedas translated by Arya Samaj. Because this website is leaned towards Arya Samaj and other Vedic people. We are not mainstream Hindus. As I said before, you did a poor job before coming on here. You didn’t even research the people here. You assumed we were mainstream Hindus and we are not. Get educated before getting on this site. If you did, you would know Arya Samaj and true Vedic people do not worship any idols. And Vedic people do not believe in history either. We consider that history centrism. Abhramic religions worship history. That’s why you have figures like jesus, an idol. Mac, stop being an idol worshiper. Stop worshipping Jesus and history.
Vedic people do not worship historical figures and history. Christians do. They limit God to History. We know God is beyond history. We don’t limit God to the third dimension like Christians love to do with their god. Time for mr. mac to stop being an idol worshiping who worships a historical god. Time for him to worship the real God that is not limited by history and historical events. Worshiping jesus is perfect example of history centrism. The very fact that you even need jesus, whether you worship him or not, shows mac worships history. Vedic people do not need any historical person. It is the techniques that bring us to God, like Yoga and meditation that are important. The person who discovered those techniques are not more important than the techniques themselves. But for Christians they don’t have any techniques so they go worship history and historical events. They are history centric
You know what I don’t care if people Hindus or people of other faiths use statues or imagery in their religions. The idea that this is wrong is mainly from prejudicial Middle Eastern 3 Jewish faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. No other people from other faiths are that self righteous and condescending against people using statues and imagery. I have no problem with Hindus or anyone else using or choosing not to use statues and imagery in their worship and I do not think people who do not use statues and imagery are in any way superior to those who do. Statues and imagery are tools. So what if some people use them. I refuse to adopt the same bigoted prejudiced of the 3 Middle Eastern faiths regarding that. They are not all that. Plus in Christianity there is plenty of use of idols/statues/imagery of Jesus, Mary and Saints. How often do you see Christians praying to a man nailed to a cross or pray to a idol or drawing/painting of the virgin Mary, so the numerous idols of saints and the body parts of saints. That is an idol. They smartly call it other things so to pretend they are not using idols but it is the same thing. They use idols/statues/drawings and painting in their worship, but turn around and have the gall to condemn people of other faiths for using statues and imagery of their own key religious figures.
Indian History will never match with any of your so call Man made History. The ancient land ever exists in world is India. We have artifacts found in Dwaraka, a holy place in Gujarat in India, Carbon dated 7800 BCE. Our Indian history is not just myth like the others. We have city dated, the same found in arabian sea that symbolizes the evidence of our God Krishna. Do you have any such one artifacts related to your Religion ? We have thousands. Our great temples are the standing artifacts. yes we worship Shiva Linga, for you people, sex is all related to Lust and body. Without a proper Reproductive cycle this world would become a void function. We still follow our cultural process and traditions even in this era. We have greatest backbone in our Country called Family. Even after the invasion Mughals and British we still have it. which is great challenge to the rest of world even economically. We worship all animals as god. If you say Love is God, then you need to love even snakes. And I add Shiva linga is not a symbol of sex, it says every human born out of sperm is God. We are worshiping ourselves not someone else. God doesn’t exists somewhere else, he resides within us inside our soul, you need find that no matter what religion you follow. You will not be a true christian nor anyone else if you don’t even know to respect a fellow human being and his religion.
You are posting comments is only as novel there are no scientific evidence so i giving scientific evidence of speases on earth that when earth sepereted from sun there are only water on the earth so firest live on earth was ‘fish’ then same part of earth become dried then” Torties” was second inhabitents who can live on earths dry place as well as water, then ‘Varaha’ animal who can leave only on dry place, then forth is called “Narasinvhe” who was human being but lucks like lion which is development of human being and in Hindu philosopy we belives that those four Avatar of Brhmadeo who producer of world. all thigs are proved by todays science. So Hindu religion was based on truth.
according to ur theory bigbang occured in 4004bc,but a city found submerged in sea @ the coast of gujarat dated back to 8000 bc.truth is bitter,dont worry in the coming years u will also come to a conclusion but u must be ready to accept the truth.
The collapse of Aryan Invasion Theory and the prevalence of Indigenism.
Lecture delivered on 26 Feb. 2011 by Nicholas Kazanas at IIT, Madras (Video in three parts):
http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/multimedia_en.asp
Have a look at this and hopefully you will see the truth….
Arya world used so many times for king in mahabharat all quens call there husband O Arya so Arya is world used for Quality or Honere it is not types of human or inhabitants.
Superb Dude. Simply Superb.
Hi Sridhar,
Sorry man I was bit rude to you on my earlier comment, I assume its the same Sridhar.
I request you to read questions that I have raised on my blog to Apolloreach.
When we Tamils don’t know to counter a logic, we are always rude. Because, the bastards have added Pagutharivu (They accept other dogmas, but not Rational Vedas…?). And I love Hindustan, whole of Hindustan. I’m not a Ezham bastard. So I’m not rude. I not a follower of that slave trader and that pedophile. You guys, are well… think where you fit in. Dravada Maayai. I have read it. I’m no fool to believe in AIT or IAM. So keep barking.
Man you must refrain yourself.
Else, it brings bad name to Sridhar. This is pretty confusing.
Hey there are many Sridhars here. Damn It. Whom are you referring. Btw., poye velaya paarungappa.
The collapse of Aryan Invasion Theory and the prevalence of Indigenism.
Lecture delivered on 26 Feb. 2011 by Nicholas Kazanas at IIT, Madras (Video in three parts):
http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/multimedia_en.asp
Please have look at this…Prof Kazanas is a vedic Scholar and has been propogating the Out of India Theory and has written mainly article with credible evidence against the AIT.
Hi , i found it very surprising that on this topic nobody mentioned a very important work done Mr Rajiv Malhotra and Aravindan Neelakandan , the book is called “Breaking India ” . Its a great work and this book must be read by every indian.
“किसी संस्कृत ग्रन्थ में वा इतिहास में नहीं लिखा की आर्य लोग इरान से आये और यहाँ के जंगलियो को लरकर जय पा के निकाल के इस देश के राजा हुए”
सत्यार्थ प्रकाश – ८ सम्मुलास – स्वामी दयानंद
“जो आर्य श्रेष्ठ और दस्यु दुष्ट मनुष्यों को कहते हैं वैसे ही मैं भी मानता हूँ”
“आर्याव्रत देश इस भूमि का नाम इसलिए हैं की इसमें आदि सृष्टि से आर्य लोग निवास करते हैं परन्तु इसकी अवधि उत्तर में हिमालय दक्षिण में विन्ध्याचल पश्चिम में अटक और पूर्व में ब्रहमपुत्र नदी हैं इन चारों के बीच में जितना प्रदेश हैं उसको आर्याव्रत कहते और जो इसमें सदा रहते हैं उनको भी आर्य कहते हैं”
सव-मंतव्य-अमंतव्य -प्रकाश-स्वामी दयानंद
स्वामी दयानंद जी ने सत्यार्थ प्रकाश में आर्य, दस्यु और आर्यव्रत शब्द पर प्रकाश डाला तदन्तर वेद भाष्य करते हुए मंत्रो के भाष्य में आर्य- दस्यु की परिभाषा और युद्ध, आदिवासिओ का स्वरुप एवं पूजा का विधान आदि विषयों पर प्रकाश डाला हैं.
१. आर्य-दास-दस्यु शब्द की समीक्षा
आर्य शब्द कोई जातिवाचक शब्द नहीं हैं अपितु गुणवाचक शब्द हैं. आर्य शब्द का अर्थ होता हैं “श्रेष्ठ” अथवा बलवान, ईश्वर का पुत्र, ईश्वर के ऐश्वर्य का स्वामी, उत्तम गुणयुक्त, सद्गुण परिपूर्ण आदि.
आर्य शब्द का प्रयोग वेदों में निम्नलिखित विशेषणों के लिए हुआ हैं.
श्रेष्ठ व्यक्ति के लिए (ऋक १/१०३/३, ऋक १/१३०/८ ,ऋक १०/४९/३)
इन्द्र का विशेषण (ऋक ५/३४/६ , ऋक १०/१३८/३)
सोम का विशेषण (ऋक ९/६३/५)
ज्योति का विशेषण (ऋक १०/४३/४)
व्रत का विशेषण (ऋक १०/६५/११)
प्रजा का विशेषण (ऋक ७/३३/७)
वर्ण का विशेषण (ऋक ३/३४/९) के रूप में हुआ हैं.
दास शब्द का अर्थ अनार्य, अज्ञानी, अकर्मा, मानवीय व्यवहार शुन्य, भृत्य, बल रहित शत्रु के लिए हुआ हैं न की किसी विशेष जाति के लोगों के लिए.
दास शब्द का अर्थ मेघ (ऋक ५/३०/७ , ऋक ६/२६/५ , ऋक ७/१९/२ ),अनार्य (ऋक १०/२२/८ ), अज्ञानी, अकर्मा, मानवीय व्यवहार शुन्य (ऋक १०,२२,८), भृत्य (ऋक ), बल रहित शत्रु (ऋक १०/८३/१) के लिए हुआ हैं न की किसी विशेष जाति अथवा स्थान के लोगों के लिए.
दस्यु शब्द का अर्थ उत्तम कर्म हीन व्यक्ति (ऋक ७/५/६) अज्ञानी, अव्रती (ऋक १०/२२/८) मेघ (१/५९/६) आदि के लिए हुआ हैं न की किसी विशेष जाती अथवा स्थान के लोगो के लिए…
I. The collapse of Aryan Invasion Theory and the prevalence of Indigenism.
Lecture delivered on 26 Feb. 2011 by Nicholas Kazanas at IIT, Madras (Video in three parts):
http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/multimedia_en.asp
Please have look at this…Prof Kazanas is a vedic Scholar and has been propogating the Out of India Theory and has written mainly article with credible evidence against the AIT.
दस्यु शब्द का अर्थ उत्तम कर्म हीन व्यक्ति (ऋक ७/५/६) अज्ञानी, अव्रती (ऋक १०/२२/८) मेघ (१/५९/६) आदि के लिए हुआ हैं न की किसी विशेष जाती अथवा स्थान के लोगो के लिए.
२. आदिवासीओ का स्वरुप और धार्मिक विश्वास
पाश्चात्य विद्वानों ने वेदों के अनुसार आदिवासीओ को काले वर्ण वाला, अनास यानि चपटी नाक वाला और लिंग देव अर्थात शीशनदेव की पूजा करने वाला लिखा हैं जबकि आर्यों को श्वेत वर्ण वाला सीधी नाक वाला और देवताओं की पूजा करने वाला लिखा हैं.
Macdonnel लिखते हैं The term Das, Dasyu properly the name of the dark aborigines अर्थात दास, दस्यु काले रंग के आदिवासी ही हैं.
Griffith Rigveda 1/10/1 – The dark aborignes who opposed the aryans अर्थात काले वर्ण के आदिवासी जो आर्यों का विरोध करते थे.
Vedic mythology page 151,152 में भी आर्यों द्वारा कृष्ण वर्ण वाले दस्युओ को हरा कर उनकी भूमि पर अधिकार करने की बात कही गयी हैं.
ऋग्वेद के १/१०१/१, १/१३०/८,२/२०/७ और ४/१६/१३ मंत्रो का हवाला देकर यह सिद्ध करने का प्रयास किया गया हैं की भारत के मूल निवासी कृष्ण वर्ण के थे.
ऋग्वेद ७/१७/१४ में सायण ने कृष्ण का अर्थ मेघ की काली घटा किया हैं.
अन्य सभी मंत्रो में इसी प्रकार इन्द्र के वज्र का मेघ रुपी बादलों से संघर्ष का वर्णन हैं. बादलों के कृष्ण वर्ण की आदिवासियो के कृष्ण वर्ण से तुलना कर बिजली (इन्द्र के वज्र) और बादल (मेघ) के संघर्ष के मूल अर्थ को छुपाकर उसे आर्य-दस्यु युद्ध की कल्पना करना कुटिलता नहीं तो और क्या हैं.
वैदिक इंडेक्स के लेखक ने ऋग्वेद ५/२९/१० में अनास शब्द की चपटी नाक वाले द्रविड़ आदिवासी की व्याख्या की हैं. ऋग्वेद ५/२९/१० मंत्र में दासो को द्वेषपूर्ण वाणी वाले या लराई के बोल बोलने वाले कहाँ हैं.
ऋग्वेद ५/२९/१० में अनास शब्द का अर्थ चपटी नाक वाला नहीं अपितु शब्द न करने वाला अर्थात मूक मेघ हैं जिसे इन्द्र अपने वज्र (बिजली) से छिन्न भिन्न कर देता हैं.
यहाँ भी अपनी कुटिलता से द्रविड़ आदिवासियो को आर्यों से अलग दिखने का कुटिल प्रयास किया गया हैं.
वैदिक इंडेक्स के लेखक ने ऋग्वेद ७/२१/५ और १०/९९/३ के आधार पर यह सिद्ध करने का प्रयास किया हैं की दस्यु लोगो की पूजा पद्यति विभिन्न थी और वे शिश्नपूजा अर्थात लिंग पूजा करते थे.
…
यास्काचार्य ने ७/२१/५ मंत्र में शिश्न पूजा का अर्थ किया हैं अब्रहमचर्य अर्थात जो कामी व्यभिचारी व्यक्ति हो किया हैं. ऋग्वेद के ७/२१/५ और १०/९९/३ में भी कहा गया हैं की लोगों को पीड़ा पहुचने वाले, कुटिल, तथा शिश्नदेव (व्यभिचारी) व्यक्ति हमारे यज्ञो को प्राप्त न हो अर्थात दुस्त व्यक्तियों का हमारे धार्मिक कार्यो में प्रवेश न हो.
वैदिक इंडेक्स के लेखक इन मंत्रो के गलत अर्थ को करके भ्रान्ति उत्पन्न कर रहे हैं की दस्यु लोग लिंग पूजा करते हैं एवं आर्य लोग उनसे विभिन्न पूजा पद्यति को मानने वाले हैं.
सत्य अर्थ यह हैं की दस्यु शब्द किसी वर्ग या जाती विशेष का नाम नहीं हैं बल्कि जो भी व्यक्ति दुर्गुण युक्त हैं वह दस्यु हैं और दुर्गुण व्यक्ति किसी भी समुदाय में हो दूर करने योग्य हैं.
३. आर्यों और दस्युओ का युद्ध
वैदिक इंडेक्स के लेखको ने यह भी सिद्ध करने का प्रयास किया हैं की वेद में आर्य और दस्युओ के युद्ध का वर्णन हैं.वेद में दासों के साथ युद्ध करने का वर्णन तो मिलता हैं पर वह मानवीय नहीं प्राकृतिक युद्ध हैं.जैसे इन्द्र और वृत्र का युद्ध. इन्द्र बिजली का नाम हैं जबकि वृत्र मेघ का नाम हैं. इन दोनों का परस्पर संघर्ष प्राकृतिक युद्ध के जैसा हैं. यास्काचार्य ने भी निरुक्त २/१६ में इन्द्र-वृत्र युद्ध को प्राकृतिक माना हैं.इसलिए वेद में जिन भी स्थलों पर आर्य-दस्यु युद्ध की कल्पना की गयी हैं उन स्थलों को प्रकृति में होने वाली क्रियाओ को उपमा अलंकार से दर्शित किया गया हैं.उनके वास्तविक अर्थ को न समझ कर अज्ञानता से अथवा जान कर वेदों को बदनाम करने के लिए एवं आर्य द्रविड़ के विभाजन की निति को पोषित करने के लिए युद्ध की परिकल्पना कई गयी हैं जो की गलत हैं.
इस लेख को लिखने का प्रयोजन केवल मात्र आर्य दस्यु के नाम पर जो खाई खोदी जा रही हैं उसे भरना हैं. तभी द्रविड़, कोल, भील, संथाल आदि जन जातियो के मन से सवर्णों के लिए घृणा मिटेगी और वेद विरोधी विचारधारा का नाश होने से भारत देश का कल्याण होगा.
Imagine yourself in the 17th century. You are the British and you have defeated the Portugese, Dutch, etc. in many places around the world. You think you are invincible. You reach India and ARE STUNNED by the philosophical magnificence of the thoughts in this country. All through your history, you have believed that white Caucasian skin is eugenically superior to any other skin colour. Yet, you are STUNNED to discover that this superior philosophy has been practised by brown-skinned Indians for millenia before your mythical Adam/Eve took birth. What would you do?
You would firstly date all Indian scriptures around 1000 BC, etc. so as to conform to the Genesis account of creation of the world in 4004 BC. You would then go around trying to convince everyone else (but most importantly yourself) that white-skinned invaders from somewhere else conquered India and came up with the philosophy. This philosophy is too stupendous to have been developed by brown-skinned “natives”. That in essence is AIT/AMT.
Great article and I hope we can touch upon other subtopics associated with this issue in the comments section here.
We all know what Momins do when THEY encounter a superior philosophy…they simply destroy temples and build mosques on top, rape and kill the practitioners of the superior philosophy and convert them with the attendant threat of the sword through the neck 😉
@KB ..so true . if , by any misfortune, Mullahs take over the world today..then two thousands years forward ..the only historical record left would be of a flying donkey and not of stealth warriors ..such is the gruesome efficiency of Islam in destroying civilization heritage and footprints
@Kalbhairav,
Another reason they came up with Aryan Invasion Theory was that Indians wanted Britishers to leave India, so they felt if we come up with such a theory we can claim that You so called Aryans who claim to be Native of India, have come from Europe and Invaded the Local aborigines of the Land and are living here since many centuries, How can you ask us to Leave???… When you yourself are foreigners, when the Mughals are foreigners and they too are living here, Why should we leave???… If you want us to vacate the Land u too must do the same… or else let us Rule the land… and of course suppressing Psychologically and Physically the tolerant and peaceful Aryans was also one of the reason.. so that by suppressing them and making their own culture foreign to them … they could have ruled with utmost ease!!
The collapse of Aryan Invasion Theory and the prevalence of Indigenism.
Lecture delivered on 26 Feb. 2011 by Nicholas Kazanas at IIT, Madras (Video in three parts):
http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/multimedia_en.asp
Please have look at this…Prof Kazanas is a vedic Scholar and has been propogating the Out of India Theory and has written mainly article with credible evidence against the AIT.
Reply
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please read the following by Rajiv Malhotra titled “European Misappropriation of Sanskrit led to the Aryan Race Theory.” It provides the motivations for the Europeans in creating the now debunked theory of Aryans. It is very much worth the read. Please share with others as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html
Sanskrit is a classical language, but it is a very lower level language in the Indo-Iranian language group. First veda (rig) was written in Sanskrit in 1500 BC, its a poetic whim. Panini composed Ashtadhyay in 6th-5th BC. But, Aggadic/Akkadian, Sumerian, Hebrew, Aramiac, etc are much more older languages than Sanskrit. Shem in Hebrew means the Royal One, eldest son of Noah. Elam was Shem’s eldest son and all descendants of Shem are called Aryans. Theory is wrong. Refer my other comments.
@Sridhar No, bro!! Only those blasted AIADMK/DMK/TMK and all those lousy /parties/factions that were born out of the Annadurai movement have become idiots. The Tamil intellectuals, I’m sure, are on the verge of giving upon this folly!! Also, have you noticed that the Anti-Brahmin/Anti-“Aryan” rhetoric of these rascal outfits has gone totally down, since they now know that the Western Indologist mischief can no longer be legitimized, let alon takea as Gospel Truth!!
here are a few interesting links:-
http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/about-us/european-misappropriation-of-sanskrit-led-to-the-aryan-race-theory-rajiv-malhotra/
http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/how-christian-missionaries-invented-dravidian-christianity-rajiv-malhotra/
this history which was created by ur vatican stooges,time will tell the truth,science will reveal.Ur max muller history book which i read in school tells Tipu was a good ruler kind to other religion ,come to kerala u will hear the stories of padyottam fm very old people who tell & also can show u with eg of destruction of temples in kerala & killing of people by him.In madurai malik dinar wiped out the entire hindus & many left & settled in kerala,no details will be available on this even on ur mouth piece–wikipedia. we come across many athiest they all ridicule Hindus but inside they all r christians .our Religion Hinduisim is the only religion which does not coerce or convert.why convert when ones religion is good
@ Apolloreach;
Namaste brother… u have done great work, just great work.. thank you so much 🙂
Sadhuvaad Sadhuvaad Sadhuvaad!!!
Congratulations @AR ..each emboldened statement in your analysis by itself alone is enough to bust the whole Aryan Picnic Theory hoax.
Unfortunately, dravidian politics and evangelical interests are more than active in keeping this pseudo theory alive.
ironically one living name is good enough to bust this myth : Rahul Dravid 🙂
Brother Apolloreach,
This write up is simple brilliant bringing us one step closer to the truth and helping our cause for a united India. Another enlightening article regarding the debunked aryan invasion theory in the link below
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/how-europeans-misappropri_b_837376.html
recently, one man said me he can prove from vedas regarding AIT. He quoted RV 1:32:5 & 1:32:9 regarding killing of Vritrasur,. To show the prove that Aryans first landed in Kandhar, he quoted RV 1: 126 regarding king Bhavya who was rulling a state on the bank of river Sindhu.
With a little research, I found these are the verses shown as proofs by Muller for AIT, in addition he quoted a number of verses from RV that says Indra destroyed cities of the enemies.
Regarding RV 1:32:5 & 1:32:9 — –
He just failed to understand who is Vritrasur, what are his qualities. If we read Verse 1:32:6 and 1:32:8, we will see Vritrasur fought a brave war. Indra cut its limbs, still he stood up, and attacked Indra.
They never appreciate the nature of Vritrasur as said in RV 1:42, where it is said that Vritrasur and other asurs blocked the flow of the river, then Indra arose and fought with them, then Marut joined Indra. They killed the asuras and freed the water.
They too dont appreciate RV 1:22:6,” Sun sucks water from the earth and helps to make rain.” and verse 1:23:17,” Sun and water are our friend. Sun uplifts the water who again come back to us in the form of rain”.
This verses if read as a single richa, says that, sun sucks the water, marut makes the water clouds, Vritra is the negative force that restricts rain, and Indra is the positive force that destroyed the blockage and makes rain fall.
This is infact the richas for water cycle, not of AIT.
Namaste,
The best thing to say to someone who makes such claims is ask him/her for their copy of the Vedas. First see if they even have a copy of the Vedas. If they don’t that means they are just copying and pasting from some hate website. Keep up the good work. There are many people who are fighting against the Vedas. They can’t handle the truth that is why they have to make up things about the Vedas.
Best,
Krishna
Well, not all. It is a thought among the followers of DMK and AIADMK parties which use this concept of dravidian land for their political advantage and nothing more. To be specific, DMK is more bent into this theory supported by its christian leaders.
superb i like this site
thank you Apollo Reach for this marvellous article!!
All, thanks for the compliments. It is important that I acknowledge that the characterization of Dasyus, seen in the post above, is based on the works of Sri Aurobindo. While the Sangam literary quotes are known to me as I have read some of these works.
These days it has become fad to tag the word “Dravidian” to any piece of archeology that is discovered in Tamilnadu. But those great minds that keep using phrases like Dravidian – bone, skull, artifact, pottery, blood etc etc may well do to remember the words of Max Mueller (one of the pioneers of this hoax along with Caldwell) – ” I have declared again and again that if I say Aryans, I mean neither blood nor bones, nor hair nor skull; I mean simply those who speak an Aryan language… in that sense, and in that sense only, do I say that even the blackest Hindus represent an earlier stage of Aryan speech and thought than the fairest Scandinavians… To me an ethnologist who speaks of Aryan race, Aryan blood, Aryan eyes and hair, is as great a sinner as a linguist who speaks of a dolichocephalic dictionary or a brachycephalic grammar.” Max Mueller, Biographies of Words and the Home of the Aryas (1888)
Good article. Check this video busting the myth of AIT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiQrkkIKMk&feature=related
@ Sridhar says: Shut your filthy mouth, is this how your parents or so called your culture taught you to call others stupid? I like the name Sridhar because I have seen many gentlemen with that name.
Give respect and take respect.
I am very proud of being a tamilian, wheather the facts about aryan invasions are true or not !! I like much of agniveer’s intelligent articles. But when some one talks about the history it needs sufficient historical proof, not just opinions and assumptions by using vedic quotes.
Agniveer: I expect more articles on this issue to see your views.
Tamilscafe
@Tamilscafe:
I agree with you that Sridhar’s comments were unnecesary.
Now you want MORE evidence and historical proof of WHAT exactly? The point of the article is that not one shred of evidence has been put forth from those who propagage AIT/AMT. Even Tamil literature makes no mention of any invasion. What type of “historical proof” will satisfy you? We clearly cannot travel back in time. We are like detectives who arrive AFTER the event and we have various clues using which we need to reconstruct history.
Tamilnadu has a GREAT tradition of Saiva Bhakti Movement. Mythology or not, Ravana himself was supposedly a great Shiva Bhakta. Periya Puranam probably predates ALL West Asian cults. The point is that Tamil literature and Sanskrit literature grew together and the Bhakti tradition and God(s) worshipped all over India were different manifestations of the same Brahman.
First of all, I am not a Tamil scholar but ordinary Tamilian who wants to know more about this ideology. I don’t encourage people to fight in the name of history, geography etc. I love India and all Indians who respect each other believes, culture and treat everyone equal.
Now, from the article,
1. Were Aryans not migrated to India or they were also one of the origin races of India? I hope you understand the NEED for historical PROOF now
2. Sages talked about in this article or wrote Veda (correct me, if I am wrong), were they Aryans? If not then who were they? these sages lived out of present Indian Territory or inside?
3. Do you believe that Ravana also a tamilian, if yes then how? (If you believe Ramayan is a myth then what is the need of that statement? everyone aplosing this article agrees to it? if not then why not, it’s just because you like to believe in that way or it damages your religious ideology?)
Would you agree, if any of the Tamil literatures talks about the invasion then will you accept Dravidian ideology is true? If not then what is the need of the statement? and It REMAINS me one of Agniveer’s articles about the Debate.
I know you would bring up some more quality clues not PROOF to blast this Dravidian ideology (Thousands of innocent TAMILIANS were KILLED in Srilanka but Indian government supported the MASACRE by providing weapons and training, where were you guys who talks about unity? When TAMIL Fishermen were killed near INDIAN SEA BORDER where were you guys who talks about unity? KATCHATHEEVU was an Indian Territory but donated to Srilanka, who authorized it? Unity comes not by words but actions I believe).
@Tamilscafe:
1. First, Aryans are NOT a race. So, this question is moot. There was also no migration or invasion.
2. The sages are just folks who meditated in order to find the ultimate nature of reality. They did not migrate from Central Asia and were no different from those who were in India already. See 1. The folks who engaged in this were based off different parts of India. For instance, the Samkhya-Yoga darshanas are believed to have originated in Southern parts of India. Kapila – the systematizer of the Samkhya has a cave ingraved in Anuradhapuram in Sri Lanka. Note that Samkhya and Yoga darshanas are Astika, i.e. they hold the Vedas to be supreme.
3. Regarding Ramayana, etc. I personally believe that Puranas and Itihasas are NOT 100% true/accurate historical events. There may be others who disagree with me. Nonetheless, they were written by sages like Valmiki, Kambar, Vyasa in order to expound the Vedic truths in easy to understand formats. Whether Ravana was a Tamilian or not is moot because the character was probably fictional. The point I am trying to make is that for Valmiki to compose Ramayana, AND make Ravana a Shiva Bhakta points to the fact that Shiva Devotion was prevalent in ALL parts of India, including Sri Lanka. Rama was Hindu. As was Ravana.
Regarding the situation in Sri Lanka, please keep in mind that the plight of Tamilians there and the lack of support of the Indian government during Rajiv Gandhi’s time had more to do with politics than the fact that a Tamil life is more expendable than a non-Tamilians life! Plus, no one here especially likes Congress and their politics. Congress has also played a role in massacring Sikhs! So, they are equal-opportunity destroyers. Now, they are playing a role in destroying the Hindu fabric of the WHOLE of India.
PS: May I request you NOT to address me as “you guys”? I am Tamil myself!
I dont know about other purans, But regarding Ravan, he was son of Rishi Vishrava, who was also fathe of Kuber. And many times he is said as Arya in Ramayan.
His mother was a daitya, she wanted a son from the most powerful of that time, so as to re-establish the kingdom of daitya. So being tamil is a wrong notion
@KalBhairav says:
As I have mentioned earlier, I am against of Aryan and Dravidian Propagandas, because it won’t bring any good deeds but hatred between Indians.
In other hand, I also am interested in understanding our history with acceptable proofs not with some clues, in a laymen term what is Aryan? Because you said Aryan is not a race!! But many archeological research scholars believe other wise. (Their theories are backed up by PROOFS not by CLUES)
For information, could you please tell me the sages you have mentioned above, in which language did they speak of? Does Sanskrit evolved earlier or any other languages were in use before Sanskrit?
If you personally believe that Puranas are NOT 100% TRUE, then what is the use of quoting them? KARUNAANIDHI, ex CM of Tamilnadu always does this, if he needs to impress Hindus then he uses quotes from Ramayan, otherwise asks in which engineering college did Rama study to build a bridge in between India and Srilanka, CALLS hindus are thieves etc. As being a Tamilian you should know him better
A research article interestingly says, In Ukraine during 1966 Yu Kanygin brought out his book “ The Path of the Aryans: The role of Ukraine in the spiritual History of Mankind”. This book says that Rama’s birthplace is not Ayodya but near the Driper river. It says Rama is from a tribe known as Druid. It will be of interest to know that Rama, whether a ruler or mythological hero, is a Dravidian born in the tribe of Druids near the Driper River. Do you have any comments on this statement?
In regards to Congress, when PM has time to request France in person to allow Sikhs to wear turbans but he acts only by writing letter or similar to srilanka when their army kills Tamil fisher men won’t help them to gain votes in Tamilnadu for sure (A joke I heard of, tamilians lives are not even important than sikhs hair, a joke but how painfully true, isn’t it?). I meant YOU GUYS to only people call for unity despite the fact that they or whoever were not there to protest…
@TamilsCafe:
But many archeological research scholars believe other wise.
This seems untrue. There is still no worthwhile archaeological evidence that points to AIT. Here are some recent updates on the issue.
I do not want to get into a debate of which came earlier – Sanskrit or Tamil. The way I think about it is that both of these probably originated naturally amongst the indigenous people inhabiting India. The reason why I brought up the issue of Sage Kapila [of the Samkhya philosophy] is that the Yoga and the Samkhya Darshana share significant commonalities AND EVEN amongst upholders of AIT/AMT theory, the belief is that Yoga, specifically, did NOT belong to the “invading Aryans”. I can give you some references on this if you insiste in due course.
I have no comment on the birth place of Rama being in Driper river. My thoughts on the Itihasaas and Puraanas is that they were human conceptions with an idea to render Vedic and Upanishadic thoughts using easy-to-understand, memorable and colourful language. Whether Rama or Krishna were actual incarnations of Vishnu is immaterial to the message of the BG, for instance.
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/
Visit the above link guys..
yeah, this link was once shared by Indian Agnostic also. IA has more links bookmarked, may be he can share it once again.
Namaste Shravak
These are the two recent blogs i have read recently on this.
http://www.chakranews.com/aryan-invasion-theory-vedas-and-dravidian-discourse/1581
this one is great Open Magazine sends John Abraham’s sample ! and guess what it again puts a dent in the migration myth 🙂
http://www.tattvaanveshanam.org/2011/05/29/genetics-delivers-another-blow-to-aryan-myth/
@sivanadiyaan
Please read article which I posted in my blog too, expect comments from you if possible.
@ KalBhairav
———–I do not want to get into a debate of which came earlier – Sanskrit or Tamil———-
I don’t like arguements but healthy discussions, so why not? but we leave this topic for later.
Could you please read and leave your comments on the national seminar article in this regard which I have posted in my blog?
No topic from purans be it Ramayan, Mahabarat etc anymore between us because no point in talking about something that you don’t believe.
@Tamiscafe
Please let us know the archeological proofs which claims the AIT true.
New Evidence on the Indus Culture
The Indus Civilization – the ancient urban culture of north India in the third millenniem BC – has been interpreted as Dravidian or non-Aryan culture. Though this has never been proved, it has been taken by many people to be a fact. However, new archaelogiocal evidence shows that the so-called Indus culture was a Vedic culture, centered not on the Indus but on the banks of the Saraswati river of Vedic fame (the culture should be renamed not the Indus but the “Saraswati Culture”), and that its language was also related to Sanskrit. The ancient Saraswati dried up around 1900 BC. Hence the Vedic texts that speaks so eloquently of this river must predate this period.
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley_1.html
The racial types found in the Indus civilization are now found to have been generally the same as those of north India today, and that there is no evidence of any significant intrusive population into India in the Indus or post-Indus era.
This new information tends to either dismiss the Aryan invasion thoery or to place it back at such an early point in history (before 3000 BC or even 6000 BC), that it has little bearing on what we know as the culture of India.
@Tamilscafe
Remains of humans dug up suggest there was no difference between indus-valley people and current people of india.
@ shravak
Have you visited my post with questions raised to AR below that?
Look forward to hear from you too.
@Tamilscafe
I yet to read it, right now i am slightly busy :-(. i have bookmarked your post, will respond to it soon.
@shravak
No problems, its a too long article but worth spending time on reading its both parts. Take your time and give your opinions and raise appropriate questions in there, I will try to find out the answers at my best effort.
I don’t like arguements but healthy discussions.
Thanks.
ARYAN INVASION THEORY GIVE MANY LAUGHABLE CONCLUSIONS FIRST THOSE WHO
FOUNDED THIS THEORIES ARE SILENT ABOUT JEWS WHO IF ARYAN INVASION
THEORY IS CORRECT ARE ALSO ARYANS. THESE ARM CHAIR THEORIST THEORY IS
BASED ON THE CONCLUSIONS THAT SOME SANSKRIT WORDS ARE SIMILAR TO
EUROPEAN LANGUAGE SO ARYANS HAVE COME FROM EUROPE BUT JEWS HAD MUCH
MORE SIMILARITY WITH ARYANS LIKE THE EARLY JEWISH WRITTEN SCRIPT AND
VEDIC HARAPPAN SCRIPT ARE VERY MUCH SIMILAR, JEWS ARE ALSO MONOTHEIST
LIKE VEDIC RELIGION, SIMILARITY BETWEEN A-BRAHAM and SARAI-SWATI with
BRAHMA AND SARASWATI.
Many Jewish scholars have also said that JEWS ARE REALLY INDIAN CALANI
TRIBE WHO ARE DESCENDANTS OF INDIAN VEDIC SCHOLARS (even if this not
true then also there sufficient similarities between aryans and jews).
The great Philosophers and Historians like Aristotle, Megasthenes, Volitaire etc have themselves said that Jews are the descendants of Indian Vedic Philosophers and JEWS ARE REALLY INDIAN CALANI TRIBE even BIBLE prove this “THE KING XERXES whose Land extended till INDIA had Jewish inhabitants.
A-BRAHAM and SARAI-SWATI are none other than BRAHMA AND SARASWATI their
stories are also very similar if you see early JEWISH ALPHABETS and HARAPPAN ALPHABETS are also similar. HINDU AND JEWISH MARRIAGES ARE VERY MUCH SIMILAR the 7 rounds around their bride or bridegroom breaking coconut or bottle. In comparative religions INDRA is non other than JEHOVAH/YAHWEH/ZEUS/JOVE/JUPITER/ALLAH who gave their presence with thunder and lightening in MOUNT SINAI OR GOVARDHAN MOUNTAIN and Mohammad also said that his god is same as Jehovah/Yahweh.
So if Aryan Invasion theory is correct then ALLAH/JEHOVAH IS NON OTHER
THAN VEDIC GOD INDRA (LOL). Poor christian missionaries will never accept this fact and POOR HITLER KILLED HIS OWN ARYANS BROTHERS JEWS (LOL).
See the below links
http://jesus-messiah.com/html/jove.html
CONTD.
EVEN JEWS ARE TRACING THEIR ANCESTRY IN INDIA SEE THIS JEWISH WEBSITE
http://aumshalom.com/mystory.html
@Tamilscafe, anna wanakam. Neenge pesrad enaku puriyilla.Lankavilu tamilar jasti but Fijiyilu north indians.1990mandil enna ange nadandadu adu matrum ninge search pannunge.Lankavil thappu panratu LTTE matrum da.Adukulla dandanai avariku kedachachu adu vitidungo.Malesiavil enna nadakare adu parre neenge, website open pannungo nanum suport panre.I half tamilan.
Vanakkam Sagar.
Please read how a person named, Dileepan died in Srilanka that probably would give clues for why LTTE were formed? And there are many controversial believes that level of atrocities executed by IPKF (Indian Peace keeping Force) was pushed LTTE (believed to be act of LTTE) to the extent of blast at Sree Villiputhur, there are many controversial theories across for that particular incident too. I hope this is not right blog to discuss about it and I don’t support violent acts, because I believe outcome of any violent act will not be different. Have you ever watched channel 4 released Srilankan war crime videos, please do so just for information??!!
Now, LTTE issues apart, more than 500 Indian Tamil fishermen were killed violently so far by Srilankan army, and what was/is our Indian navy doing? Why can’t they protect Indian Citizens? As per international law, if fishermen been caught in their sea territory, they should be arrested not killed I guess (please correct me if I am wrong)? KATCHA THEEVU was ours once, now it belongs to Srilanka, do you know given by who, and how? And news papers are saying that Chinese camps are appearing in katcha theevu (I may be wrong, but you Google)?
Sagar, “Lankavilu tamilar jasti but Fijiyilu north indians” I don’t get this, but I guess you are asking that why tamilians are more in srilanka not in Fijji? If this is what your question means, do you know that srilanka was part of our present India once? Tsunami swallowed many of our Tamil treasure brother. If you don’t mind reading the post below in my blog then you will get more answer to your questions. I will upload PROOFS/CLUES containing article I came across to show srilanka was Indian (I meant the current Indian land territory) land once. Also during British rule, many Tamilians were taken to srilanka as tea estate labors.
“Malesiavil enna nadakare adu parre neenge, website open pannungo nanum suport panre”, brother I am bit weak in reading tamil written in english my apologies, if agniveer don’t…
Brother Tamil tell me your email id.
@sagar
visit my web page..
@Brother, i am half Tamilian.But i dont believe i am Dravidean.I am from kerala.
Actually aryan&dravida are not a race.
@sagar,
First stop saying you are half Tamilian, start saying my Father/Mother is Tamilian. FYI, my is not a tamilian. I am saying this because I am not a biased one.
If you don’t want to believe AIT is not true, then you are free to do so, but read the article at first (brother I hate keep asking you to do) and ask questions that comes to your mind.
@sagar
missing word “WIFE”, my wife is not a tamilian 🙂
Tamil Brother, I like that but cast system in Tamil nadu especially covai&madurai,check my previous kostins.
What is your openion abt P.O Kashmir.
Give me
tamilscafe brother, any evidence aryan invasion from central Asia & Dravidean invasion from Egypt?
One more,you always says Tamilan Tamilan. I don’t know your cast but i am upper cast(not brahmanan),but i don’t like cast system. Brother i saw previous year a big wall in coimbatore.Actually
i didn’t know why built these wall.My uncle told me, this is cast wall between upper cast & chakliyan people.Chakliyans do not allow inside the wall, Upperclass people & other lowerclass people always beat chakliyan people.They believes chakliyans are ugly people.First you should say chakliyans are not Tamilan(dravidian)& they are untouhable.
Actually Europeans are not aryans especially British people.They are anglets & saxonits group.British historeans believes Indians are superior than us.They tried to distroyed this true.Their aim was to distroy indian culture. That is Aryan invasion& Dravida invasion.
@Tamilscafe do you know how Rajpakse was able to carry out the Tamil genocide it is because of LTTE. LTTE has a big hand in getting Rajpakse elected in election. The LTTE commander Prabhakaran thought that if Sinhali Chauvinist Rajpakse comes into power there will be communal clashes between Sinhali and Tamils and that will help LTTE to regain its dwindling power among Tamils. He through threat and propaganda told Tamils not vote in the election due to this many tamilians did not participated in election and because of this moderate sinhalese and tamil leaders who were getting the votes of Tamil people lost the election and LTTE PRABHAKARAN HELPED RAJPAKSE TO WIN THE ELECTION AND INDIRECTLY CHOOSE HIS OWN DEATH AND GENOCIDE OF MANY TAMILIANS.
LTTE IS THE ONE WHICH BROUGHT THE BIGGEST LOSS TO THE GENUINE TAMIL MOVEMENT, IT ALWAYS PLAYED INTO HANDS OF SINHALESE CHAUVINISTS. LTTE started associating itself with INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS LIKE AL-QAEDA it started giving training to Al Qaeda militants and helped Al Qaeda to attack American naval ship USS Cole and also helped terrorists of 9/11 to enter America through fake documents. Because of this AMERICA AND INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY started viewing genuine tamil movement also as terrorist movement. Many countries banned LTTE and collecting money for Tamil movement became illegal in many country. Even Geneva Human rights also neglected Tamil Human rights when LTTE members were representing the Tamil Human rights issues. LTTE HAS BROUGHT CONSIDERABLE DAMAGE TO THE GENUINE TAMIL MOVEMENT.
Regarding IPKF, when IPKF went to Sri Lanka the LTTE, which has no ethics joined hands with Sinhalese chauvinist Sri Lankan Govt. and Sri Lankan govt. gave LTTE arms and ammunition and told them to fight and do propaganda against IPKF to send them out of Sri Lanka.
Tamilcafe Bro SRILANKAN ARMY DOES NOT ONLY HAVE SINHALESE SOLDIERS BUT IT ALSO HAS TAMIL SOLDIERS IN ITS RANKS AND LTTE IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING MANY TAMILIANS.
SO IT IS NOT WRONG TO SAY THAT…
@Sameer
I don’t get your point? I advise you to read what I said to Sagar first, once you have done that, and then answer the questions which I have asked in this regard such as Tamil fishermen assassinations, Katchatheevu and channel 4 video on MASSACRE etc if you wish to discuss further.
Imagine, X’s parents are looking for a bride, one of X’s cousins suggesting a girl, and X got married and have a child, who is father of the child, X or X’s cousin? In other scenario, X shot Y, whom do you blame, X or his ideology or the organizer of a particular day event?
By the way, whom do you defend here Indian Gov (Congress), or Rajabak, or Chiness and Pak involvement in this MASSACRE? FYI, IPKF sent over with an agreement between INDIA and Srilanka, Have you heard that Rajiv was assaulted by Srilankan soldier and read more WHY was that? In Indian Army and Gujarat police dept too, we have Muslims in rank brother, I hope you will get what I mean. If you think, LTTE got punished for its war crime of killing innocents then how about it’s other PARTNERS of the same CRIME? Why people are still kept in open Jail when LTTE group was destroyed, if LTTE was responsible for this war?
To discuss further, FIRST OF ALL this is not the right platform to share our views on this regard, come and leave the same message on any of my post (may be 9/11 related one), then you will get what you want!! Or it’s just a part of hit and run here, cool, we leave this topic.
I NEVER SUPPORT ANY WAR CRIMINALS
@Tamilcafe
I am not taking anyone’s side it is you who is taking side of LTTE who is equally responsible for Tamil genocide. LTTE itself killed many tamils and LTTE’s prabhakaran contempt for eastern tamil is well known. LTTE itself has taken tamil woman and children as shields against Sri Lankan Army and CHANNEL 4 you are talking about has also shown LTTE killing tamils and is also responsible for tamil genocide. I also support Tamil movement but to tell LTTE is fighting for tamils is far fetched, he only helped Sinhalese chauvinist to brand Tamil Movement as terrorist movement. Regarding punishment of Tamil genocide, one is already punished General Fonsecka is betrayed and humiliated by Rajpakse and General Fonsecka wife has also said that Rajpakse is planning to kill him.
TAMIL HINDU GENOCIDE BY SINHALESE BUDDHIST IS LESSON FOR INDIAN HINDUS THAT EVEN BUDDHIST HAVE NOT SPARED HINDUS.
@tamilscafe brother, any evidence aryan invasion from central Asia & Dravidean invasion from Egypt?
One more,you always says Tamilan Tamilan. I don’t know your cast but i am upper cast(not brahmanan),but i don’t like cast system. Brother i saw previous year a big wall in coimbatore.Actually
i didn’t know why built these wall.My uncle told me, this is cast wall between upper cast & chakliyan people.Chakliyans do not allow inside the wall, Upperclass people & other lowerclass people always beat chakliyan people.They believes chakliyans are ugly people.First you should say chakliyans are not Tamilan(dravidian)& they are untouhable.
@ Tamilscafe: I will visit the blog of your (please point me to it) and we can definitely discuss the AIT / IAM with a much wider context over a period of time. This post of mine, was, as indicated in the post itself was an attempt to push back against attempts that make use of Veda samhitas as the corner stone of AIT / IAM. In a wider context, we can surely discuss archeological, linguistic, historical evidences against AIT / IAM. We can also discuss evidences for / against the disappearance of Kumari Kandam (Lemuria).
@AR
I have posted the link twice for some reason they are not shown here, any technical issues? can anyone help me?
Hi, Now with the use of most advanced remote sensing techniques we can trace the route of Saraswati River which is key to prove this theory wrong, Saraswati river has been mentioned in Rig veda as the mightiest river of that time and the most holiest of all,Rig veda also provide the route of the river, as we know Harppans and Indu valley civilisation were along the banks of Indus river, and with the use of Remote sensing techniques we can now not only trace the route but has also been infered that Saraswati River dried up centuries before the River Indus and thus if Aryans came later they could not have known about the Saraswati river flowing parallel to Indus river. I think if you look for the scitentific evidence there are lot of them, one more Yoga is native to Vedic people and the seals found during the excavation of Mohandejaro and Harrapa shows people performing Yoga.
Here are excerpts from the latest research published in May 28 in the journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
(http://news.yahoo.com/huge-ancient-civilization-collapse-explained-123449804.html)
“Some had suggested that the Harappan heartland received its waters from a large glacier-fed Himalayan river, thought by some to be the Sarasvati, a sacred river of Hindu mythology. However, the researchers found that only rivers fed by monsoon rains flowed through the region.”
Time to quit harping on the fake relation between mythical Saraswati river and the rivers that flowed through the Indus Valley Civilization. Hindutvas have received blows after blows for their claims that Indus Valley Civilization is a “Vedic civilization”.
1) Vedas are after 1500 BC and Indus Valley Civilization had its hey day in 3500 BC.
2) Vedas describe the asvam (horse) a lot. There is no figure of a horse in Indus Valley Civilization. The Hindutva, called Raja Ram, produced a fake horse figure by modifying the figure of a bull but the experts easily saw through his deception.
3) The same notorious Raja Ram and Jha, a Hindi journalist, claimed that the Harappa script is Sanskrit and claimed they had “decoded” the Harappan script. The experts had no difficulty to point out how wrong their silly attempt was. They thought they can get away by using the fact Sanskrit words have many meanings. All experts agreed from the overwhelming evidence that Harappan script is to be read from right to left and the amateurs Raja Ram and Jha had “read” the scripts left to right!
4) Experts agree that the Sumerians called the Indus Civilization as Meluha (Melagam). There is no mention of Meluha in the Vedas.
5) Vedic people were nomadic and lived along forests and wore animal skins but the people of the Indus Civilization lived in cities laid in the modern grid pattern with modern designs for waste water.
6) As given above, the rivers that fed the Indus Valley Civilization are monsoon-fed rivers and not glacier fed mighty…
Another article on yahoo even indicated that Kareena Kapoor & Saif Ali Khan is going to marry within six months, so if they wont marry then all articles of yahoo are absurd, is it correct conclusion? Moreover, If you must have made analysis of how rebuttal to deception of Aryan invasion theory is given then you would not have showed your illiterate mind over here. Argumentation of Saraswati River is not only based on how Harappan civilization received water facility but is confirmed by NASA satellites & many other evidences. Go & educate yourself before barking anything here like jihadi sucide bomber after reading just one article which does not even give rebuttal to Aryan invasion theory but just gives a result of survey: http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/scientific-verif-vedas.html . The yahoo news article starts with heading “ancient climate change, researchers say” . Think before applying copy paste as communists are always whore minded people who even dont think before selling their mothers & daughters to some one else for the sake of self-benefit or before eating cannibals, as Rebuttal in case of asinine Aryan invasion theory is not based on merely few week superstitious arguments but strong linguistic, scientific, inscriptions & sculptural evidences. You will surely find more how we have made Aryan invasion theory look like baby more you would present the deceptive arguments.
“Another article on yahoo even indicated . . . ” It was not the opinion of Yahoo.com. They were reporting a research article published in the journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences dated May, 28. It does not appear that you even read the article but became perturbed and dashed off a few lines containing language like “communists are always whore minded people who even dont think before selling their mothers & daughters to some one else for the sake of self-benefit or before eating cannibals” which only exhibits your emotional status. If you have an agenda truth could make you sad. If you have an open mind, you will welcome every new research from distinguished journals happily. I and my friends, foreign and Indian, had a good laugh at your description of the research workers and possibly Yhahoo as whore minded people etc. Get a hold of yourself. Americans and Europeans can understand Hinduttvas because they too have the Creationists.
“Rebuttal in case of asinine Aryan invasion theory is not based on merely few week superstitious arguments but strong linguistic, scientific, inscriptions & sculptural evidences.”
The reference you give for evidence is a Hinduttva publication and is not recognized as a academic journal. There is no mention of the Editors or the Editorial board. I can guess the editors are possibly the notorious Raja Ram and the Astroger and Sanskrit scholar David Frawley and so on. The article you refer to says, “Most of the evidence given in this presentation is for the apara vidya or material knowledge of the Vedic literatures.” Archeology is a science and scientific evidence is necessary. I will write a detailed post on other unscientific things in that article soon. NASA did say a river flowing in the IVC area had dried up but never said it was the mythical Saraswati river. It is the Hinduttvas who said that. Truth is coming out whether Hinduttvas like it or not.
Namaskar Kaushal,
I dont know what caused your outpour on me, infact i am not advocating Aryan Dravidian i am against it, i have just tried to place some facts, first of all i acknowledge this article and tried to put some more scientific evidence to support it. The article was not linked by me but one of the participant in this discussion and i have tried to interpret it, the artcile says the Harappan civilisation vanished by the climate change, do you think this is wrong? if you could have heatlhy discussion may be we all can benefit. my other argument was that there was civilisation much before Harappan civilisation and this was suppose to be Krishna lost city of Dwarka, i pasted a link of documentry and that gives comprehensible evidence, do you have objection to this? third i said we all people from north to south in india are homogenous population proven genetically, is this wrong? i may learn a lot from you and looking forward to your reply.
Dhanyawad
Vikas
Namaste Vikas,
i would like to make some corrections. First of all, Vedas are divine knowledge & eternal wisdom, they are divide of any history & geography. So there are few mantras in Rig Veda which sounds as name of rivers like Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati but they do not refer to geographical rivers of India what we today call as Ganga etc. Yes it is correct that these rivers what we find in uttar pradesh & other states are named after vedic mantra exactly how “Virat” like words are used as name after being found in Vedic Mantras. The rivers Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati are referred in Vedic literatures such as Manu Smriti & Shatpath Brahmans etc. & not in Vedic Samhita themselves. Vedas are pure knowledge is beyond having limited teaching for specific country, caste, religion, tribe, race , applicable for particular span of time or region etc unlike another stupid religions Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc. So Vedas dont include name of Lord Rama, Lord Krishna or historical events like Mahabharata or Ramayana or even name of India, Rivers of India or tribes of India.
“So there are few mantras in Rig Veda which sounds as name of rivers like Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati but they do not refer to geographical rivers of India what we today call as Ganga etc.”
“So Vedas dont include name of Lord Rama, Lord Krishna or historical events like Mahabharata or Ramayana or even name of India, Rivers of India or tribes of India.”
Are you the same Kushal who vehemently tries to say in the previous post that Saraswati was a river that flowed through the IVC and NASA confirmed that and here says that Saraswati is not a river at all! Wow, what a somersault!
“Vedas are pure knowledge”. Within the first ten hymns of the Rig Veda, the oldest, you will find frequent mention of “soma” and how they love consuming it. There is also mention of looting and booties from the looting within the ten hymns. I have my doubts whether you have read the Vedas.
I noticed a lot of false statements by many here. But I do want to point out that Rajiv Malhotra a scholar on the topic found no evidence that the Aryan invasion occurred. Because if there was an invasion, he points out why is there no evidence in the Tamil classics. None of the Tamil works talk about this invasion from the North. There is no documentation by the so called Darvidian people. I would be categorized as a Darvidian and even I don’t believe in that Aryan invasion theory. There is no evidence in the Tamil classics.
Not sure if anyone knows what happened in South India about 170 years ago. There was a movement started by Ayya Vaikundar. Basically he started a Dharmic movement to remove all caste system, give equality to men and women, and pray to the one god, no idol or image worship, no priest, no geographical location greater than any other location. It is a very interesting movement and became a new Dharmic religion. When the British missionaries encountered this movement they got very scared and angry. They wanted to wipe them out because it would hurt their efforts of converting the South to Christianity.
The followers of the movement started were in a village, people who once considered themselves brahmins to Sudhras and everyone inbetween lived together. They married without caring about caste because caste was no longer in their movement. And they created a great community. They helped and shared and made a big difference and had a wonderful life. There were some caste lover who hated the movement. So the British missionary movement collaborated with the caste lovers and had them go poison the community well of the movement. They ended out killing hundreds of people. It was a mass genocide. What this showed me was the British missionaries were not interested in removing caste, or bringing equality to the people of India, or anything like that, they were interested in conversion and getting the India people to worship their, British interpretation, of god.
Learn more about Ayya Vaikundar and his movement here:
http://www.ayyavaikundar.org/
The movement has pickup again. Let’s hope the missionaries in India won’t commit genocide on them again like they did when the movement first started.
Dear Appollo,
Thanks for bringing up this issue.
To understand better in could you please elaborate in what context or for what reason you have mention “the wealth that Indra captures is actually knowledge” ?
I have posted an article (copy pasted anyway) in my blog tamilscafe about sangam tamil literatures, can you please comment on it f possible, other wise I will cut paste here to for detailed opinion on this issue?
I admire your intelligent articles, but for this we, tamilians need more authoritative explainations.
One of the best and must needed article. I have many times encountered the anti north Indian drive among lot of people who gloat upon this false theory. I wasn’t ever aware of any such thing in North India. The DMK and AIADMK solely rely upon this theory to save their corrupt face. Brilliant effort. Off course, more elaborate information is needed because westerners and middle east evangelists use all the copy past hogwash of pseudo historians of Europe. And unfortunately, our historians are fond of free salary. Corruption and buck passing everywhere.
@Amit @Sridhar
There are black sheep in every community. In that context, all North-Indians are no saint. I myself being a north-indian(marwari) saying this and i ashamed too. We make fun of South Indian accent, skin-color, food, clothing, language, eating style what not? Almost everything. And when some one do the same to us in US or Australia we cry and tag them as racist. What NI’s are doing then? These things do no good but to add fuel in dividing us further and give a boost to the malicious attempt of evangelists.
@ shravak
Very well said brother..
Brother Amit,
I never seen AIADMK doing politics based on Dravidian propagandas, atleast not so seriously put forward (can you let us know anything as such after AIADMK has been established?), (FYI, I am not a AIADMK supporter)
Have you read INDUS VALLEY, A DRAVIDIAN CIVILIZATION? – Unbelievable Article both parts posted in my blog? if not please do so..and read the comments below by Apolloreach as well. By the way what is wrong in copy pasting brother as long as you give the reference? I think in academic world, it is allowed too. what is the use of writing the same content in your language? I think here we are not writing our exams or course work, so accept it brother. But if some one can’t response to your raised questions then you can ignore them because they are not worth enough to discuss atleast.
Can I see you as a buck if you can’t comment on what is written on posted article which concludes AIT is true?? Think before write in any social network, atleast apologies if you know you are wrong.
Looking forward to hear from you brother.
Now here is another western brainwash of Aryan Invasion theory trying to claim that Vedas and Sanskrit are actually gift of the Europe and west. Then how come all the remnants of Mahabharata and Ramayana are all found in India up to Sri Lanka and not europe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQ4hIG9w7c
@sridhar……… your comments were totally uncalled and unwanted. Please disipline yourself.
1. Were Aryans not migrated to India or they were also one of the origin races of India? I hope you understand the NEED for historical PROOF now///////////////
dear tamil cafe please go and read here, since u r being a tamilan u can understand this site
http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.com/
@sivanadiyaan says:
Link provided seems good source of knowledge, but it needs some time to read enough.
Thanks a lot.
Noah’s eldest son was Shem (means the royal one). Aryan is an aramiac word means royal people. Shem. Also Sem. Literal meanings are named or renown or royal one (father of the Semitic people groups – Shemites). The sons of Shem were:
(1) Elam “eternity”(sons were Shushan, Machul and Harmon) – (Elamites, Indians, Persians);
(2) Asshur “a step” or “strong” (sons were Mirus and Mokil) – (Assyrians/Northern Iraqis);
(3) Arphaxad “I shall fail” (sons were Shelach, Anar and Ashcol) – (Chaldeans/Southern Iraqis, Hebrews/Israelites/Jews, Arabians/Bedouins, Moabites/Jordanians/Palestinians, and related groups);
(4) Lud “strife” (sons were Pethor and Bizayon) – (Ludim, Lubim, Ludians, Ludu, Lydians, Chubs, other related groups in Asia Minor and North Africa);
(5) Aram “exalted” (sons were Uz, Chul, Gather and Mash) – (Aramaeans/Syrians, Lebanese, other related groups), and remnant groups throughout Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.
Hebrews descended from Eber (Heber/Hebrews), a great-grandson of Shem. Six generations after Heber, Abram (Abraham) was born, so Abraham was both a Hebrew and a Semite, born of the line of Heber and Shem. Ishmael and Isaac were born of Abraham. However, Ishmael was born of an unlawful union between Abraham and his Egyptian maid Hagar (Genesis 16, Galatians 4), making Ishmael half Semitic and half Hamitic. Sunnite Arabs (specifically Arabian Muslims) consider themselves to be descendants of Ishmael, often calling themselves Ishmaelites, and thus are both Semitic Hebrews and Hamites. To this day the descendents of Ishmael (Arabs) and his half-brother brother Isaac (Israelites) have fought over which family group is Abraham’s true spiritual heir, specifically relating to ownership of land in the Middle East. Thus, there has been an unsolvable problem, and the nation of Israel is progressively being forced to give up land for peace.
Comment by Sridhar has been deleted. We request visitors to be polite in their discussions and not make any personal remarks against any individual or community. It is impossible for us to moderate comments so we request your support. Let all discussions be as friendly as discussions within same family.
Admin
Dear Agniveer,
Thanks for showing a minimum courtesy in deleting rude comment, I honestly appreciate your response to such comment.
But it seems like you have deleted mine and kalbairav’s discussion too? why? did I offend anyone in my comments?
No. It is just that your comments were in reply to main comment. So when main was deleted, the children comments got deleted. Will have to check if they can be restored without restoring the original comment.
Admin
Thanks, and I am looking forward to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lVz8sqcxGw&feature=related
aryan migration is true or false?
[…] Adapted from http://agniveer.com/5379/aryan-invasion/ […]
There is one more point on which people raise doubts..i.e the difference in physical features means white, black,etc..
an excerpt from
http://www.funonthenet.in/forums/index.php?topic=18574.10
The idea of Aryan and Dravidian races is the product of an unscientific, culturally biased form of thinking that saw race in terms of color. There are scientifically speaking, no such things as Aryan or Dravidian races. The three primary races are Caucasian, the Mangolian and the Negroid. Both the Aryans and Dravidians are related branches of the Caucasian race generally placed in the same Mediterranean sub-branch. The difference between the so-called Aryans of the north and Dravidians of the south is not a racial division. Biologically both the north and south Indians are of the same Caucasian race, only when closer to the equator the skin becomes darker, and under the influence of constant heat the bodily frame tends to become a little smaller. While we can speak of some racial differences between north and south Indian people, they are only secondary.
For example, if we take a typical person from Punjab, another from Maharashtra, and a third from Tamilnadu we will find that the Maharashtrians generally fall in between the other two in terms of build and skin color. We see a gradual shift of characteristics from north to south, but no real different race.
Caucacian race is all Europeans descendents of Japheth. So also Madai son of Japheth. Japheth. Also Diphath. Literal meanings are opened, enlarged, fair or light (father of the Caucasoid/Indo-Europoid, Indo-European, Indo-Germanic, or Indo-Aryan people groups – Japhethites). Japheth is the progenitor of seven sons:
(1) Gomer “complete” (sons were Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah) – also Gamir, Gommer, Gomeri, Gomeria, Gomery, Goth, Guth, Gutar, Götar, Gadelas, Galic, Gallic, Galicia, Galica, Galatia, Gael, Galatae, Galatoi, Gaul, Galls, Goar, Celt, Celtae, Celticae, Kelt, Keltoi, Gimmer, Gimmerai, Gimirra, Gimirrai, Gimirraya, Kimmer, Kimmeroi, Kimirraa, Kumri, Umbri, Cimmer, Cimmeria, Cimbri, Cimbris, Crimea, Chomari, Cymric, Cymry, Cymru, Cymbry, Cumber (Cimmerians, Caledonians, Picts, Milesians, Umbrians, Helvetians, Celts1, Galatians, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Goths, Vandals, Scandinavians, Jutes, Teutons, Franks, Burgundians, Alemanni, Germans2, Belgians, Dutch, Luxembourgers, Liechensteiners, Austrians, Swiss, Angles, Saxons, Britons, English, Cornish, Irish, Welsh, Scots, French, and other related groups);
(2) Magog “land of Gog” (sons were Elichanaf, Lubal, Baath, Jobhath and Fathochta) – also Gog3, Cog, Gogh, Gogue, Gogarene, Jagog, Yajuj, Majuj, Juz, Majuz, Agag, Magug, Magogae, Magogue, Ma-Gogue, Mugogh, Mat Gugi, Gugu, Gyges, Bedwig, Moghef, Magogian, Massagetae, Getae, Dacae, Sacae, Saka, Scyth, Skythe, Scythi, Scythii, Scythini, Scythia, Scythae, Sythia, Scythes, Skuthai, Skythai, Cathaia, Scythia, Skythia, Scynthia, Scynthius, Sythian, Skudra Sclaveni, Samartian, Sogdian, Slovon, Skodiai, Scotti, Skolot, Skoloti, Scoloti, Skolo-t, Skoth-ai, Skoth, Skyth, Skuthes, Skuth-a, Slavs, Ishkuzai, Askuza, Askuasa, Alani, Alans, Alanic, Ulan, Uhlan (Scythians, Scots); also Rasapu, Rashu, Rukhs, Rukhs-As, Rhos, Ros, Rosh, Rox, Roxolani, Rhoxolani, Ruskolan, Rosichi, Rhossi, Rusichi, Rus, Ruska, Rossiya, Rusian (Russians4, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Chechens, Dagestanis); also Mas-ar, Mas-gar, Masgar, Mazar, Madj, Madjar, Makr-on, Makar, Makaroi, Merkar, Magor, Magar, Magyar (Hungarians – also Huns, Hungar, Hunugur, Hurri, Gurri, Onogur, Ugor, Ungar, Uhor, Venger); Yugoslavians, Finns, Lapps, Estonians, Siberians, Voguls, Poles, Czechs, Croatians, Bosnians, Montenegrins, Mordvins, Serbians, Slovenians, Slovakians, Karelians, Komi-Zyrians, Udmurts, Izhorians, Livonians, Bulgarians, Avars, Tartars, Turks, Colchi, Armenians, Georgians and other related groups).
(3) Madai “middle land” (sons were Achon, Zeelo, Chazoni and Lotalso) – also Mada, Amada, Madae, Madea, Manda, Maday, Media, Madaean, Mata, Matiene, Mitani, Mitanni, Minni, Megala (Medes5, Aryans, Persians, Parsa, Parsees, Achaemenians, Manneans, Caspians, Kassites, Iranians, Achaemenians, Kurds, north and NW Indians, Romani, Pathans, Hazaras), including the peoples of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Khazachstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan and Kyrgyzstan, and other related groups;
(4) Javan “miry” (sons were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim) – also Jevanim, Iewanim, Iawan, Iawon, Iamanu, Iones, Ionians, Ellas, Ellines, El-li-ness, Hellas, Hellenes, Yavan, Yavanas, Yawan, Yuban, Yauna, Uinivu, Xuthus (Grecians, Greeks, Elysians, Spartans, Dorians, Tartessians, Britons, Aeolians, Achaeans, Myceneans, Macedonians, Albanians, Carthaginians, Cyprians, Cypriots, Cretans, Latins, Venetians, Sicanians, Italics, Romans, Valentians, Sicilians, Cilicians, Italians, Spaniards, Portugese, other related groups);
(5) Tubal “brought” (sons were Ariphi, Kesed and Taari) – also Tabal, Tabali, Tubalu, Thobal, Thobel (Thobelites, Iberoi, Ibers, Iberians, Ivernians, Irish8, Spanish, other related groups), Tbilisi, Tibarenoi, Tibareni, Tibar, Tibor, Sabir, Sapir, Sabarda, Subar, Subartu, Tobol, Tobolsk (Cossacks, Samoyeds, Siberians, other related groups);
(6) Meshech “drawing out” (sons were Dedon, Zaron and Shebashnialso) – Me’shech, Mes’ek, Meshekh, Meshwesh, Meskhi, Meschera, Mushch, Muschki, Mushki, Mishi, Muski, Mushku, Musku, Muskeva, Muska, Muskaa, Muskai, Maskali, Machar, Maskouci, Mazakha, Mazaca, Mtskhetos, Modar-es, Moskhi, Moshkhi, Mosah, Mosher, Moshch, Moschis, Mosoch, Moschi, Moschian, Moshakian, Mo’skhoi, Moschoi, Mosochenu, Mosochean, Mossynes, Mosynoeci, Moskva, Moscovy, Moscow (Muscovites, Latvians, Lithuanians, Romanians, other related groups);
(7) Tiras “desire” (sons were Benib, Gera, Lupirion and Gilak) – also Tiracian, Thracian, Thirasian, Thiras, Thuras, Tyritae, Thrasus, Thrace, Trausi, Tereus, Trecae, Troas, Tros, Troia, Troiae, Troyes, Troi, Troy, Troya, Trajan, Trojan, Taunrus, Tyras, Tyrsen, Tyrrhena, Illyrian, Ilion, Ilium, Rasenna, Tursha, Tusci, Tuscany, Etruria, Etruschi, Etruscan, Eturscan, Euskadi, Euskara (Basque9), Erul, Herul, Heruli, Erilar, Vanir, Danir, Daner, Aesar, Aesir, Asir, Svear, Svea, Svie, Svioner, Svenonian, Urmane, Norge (Leleges, Carians, Pelasgians, Scandinavians10, Varangians, Vikings, Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Icelandics, Baltics, other related groups).
The Japhetic people are, in general, the peoples of India and Europe (Indo-European stock), with which any demographer is familiar.
11Early history shows the Japhethites split into two groups. One group settled in the region of present-day India and Central Asia, and the other group in the European theater. Indo-European languages originate from those people groups who migrated throughout western Eurasia (Europe, the Near East, Anatolia, and the Caucasus). Together they form what is known as the “Indo-European” family of nations. Both of these divisions trace their ancestry back to Japheth. For example, early Aryans knew him as Djapatischta (Chief of the race), Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos, East Indians called him Jyapeti or Pra-Japati, Romans used Ju-Pater or Jupiter, the Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (pronounced “sheef” or “shaif”—and recorded his name in their early genealogies as the son of Noah, the forebear of their various peoples), and the variant Seskef was used by early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis had been lost, or was non-existent.
Noah’s eldest son is Shem (means royal one). Shem. Also Sem. Literal meanings are named or renown (father of the Semitic people groups – Shemites). The sons of Shem were:
(1) Elam “eternity”(sons were Shushan, Machul and Harmon) – (Elamites, Indian, Persians);
(2) Asshur “a step” or “strong” (sons were Mirus and Mokil) – (Assyrians/Northern Iraqis);
(3) Arphaxad “I shall fail” (sons were Shelach, Anar and Ashcol) – (Chaldeans/Southern Iraqis, Hebrews/Israelites/Jews, Arabians/Bedouins, Moabites/Jordanians/Palestinians, and related groups);
(4) Lud “strife” (sons were Pethor and Bizayon) – (Ludim, Lubim, Ludians, Ludu, Lydians, Chubs, other related groups in Asia Minor and North Africa);
(5) Aram “exalted” (sons were Uz, Chul, Gather and Mash) – (Aramaeans/Syrians, Lebanese, other related groups), and remnant groups throughout Asia, the Middle East, and North Africa.
Mac sees the world through Jewish mythology that Christianity is built upon. There is zero fact in this Jewish breakdown of all other races in the world.
mac ,it is just said in category according to ur vatican ideologies.think abt this sanskrit is the mother of all language & it is still in its pure form in india where as in u r language it has changed.any way compare ur language & find out all the greek,jew words have evolved fm sanskrit & has been corrupted by u people.
@tamilscafe brother, any evidence aryans from central Asia & Dravideans from Egypt?
@tamilscafe brother, any evidence aryan invasion from central Asia & Dravidean invasion from Egypt?
One more,you always says Tamilan Tamilan. I don’t know your cast but i am upper cast,but i don’t like cast system. Brother i saw previous year a big wall in coimbatore.Actually
i didn’t know , why built these wall.My uncle told me, this is cast wall between upper cast & chakliyan people.Chakliyans do not allow inside the wall, Upperclass people & other lowerclass people always beat chakliyan people.They believes chakliyans are ugly people.First you should say chakliyans are not Tamilan& they are untouhable.
@tamilscafe brother, any evidence aryan invasion from central Asia & Dravidean invasion from Egypt?
One more,you always says Tamilan Tamilan. I don’t know your cast but i am upper cast(not brahman),but i don’t like cast system. Brother i saw previous year a big wall in coimbatore.Actually
i didn’t know , why built these wall.My uncle told me, this is cast wall between upper cast & chakliyan people.Chakliyans do not allow inside the wall, Upperclass people & other lowerclass people always beat chakliyan people.They believes chakliyans are ugly people.First you should say chakliyans are not Tamilan& they are untouhable.
@sagar
——any evidence aryan invasion from central Asia & Dravidean invasion from Egypt?—–
Have you read article that I requested to read yet? thats your home work 🙂 before we go in to this topic (lol, just for fun). In what context you want to know more about those invasions here, because we are talking about Aryan invasion? once we are agreed or until agree, shall we focus on the same?
Don’t make me laugh Sagar by saying Tamilan Tamilan, I like to be known as Tamilan, so whats wrong in it? I am proud to be Indian too.
OMG – All those idiotic ideologies castes should be burned down to ashes, never discriminate people by thier caste, religion etc.
As I said, always respect and treat everyone as equal. No matter who said otherwise.
Brother, i am half Tamilian.But i dont believe i am Dravidean.I am from kerala.
Brother, i am half Tamilian.But i dont believe i am Dravidean.I am from kerala.
Actually aryan&dravida are not race.
Brother, i am half Tamilian.But i dont believe i am Dravidean.I am from kerala.
Actually aryan&dravida are not a race.
I like that but cast system in Tamil nadu especially covai&madurai,check my previous kostins.
@brother,I like that but cast system in Tamil nadu especially covai&madurai,check my previous kostins.
Brother, I like that but cast system in Tamil nadu especially covai&madurai,check my previous kostins.
What is your openion abt P.O Kashmir.
@Brother, I like that but cast system in Tamil nadu especially covai&madurai,check my previous kostins.
What is your openion abt P.O Kashmir.
Why are we still entertaining this kid?
Trolls enjoy attention…I humbly suggest the ban hammer for the IP address in question. 🙂
visit below page for some more facts
http://www.salagram.net/aryaninvasion-page.htm
good post raman…! do post in such informative websites.it was easy to read , navigate.!
In this Context I would request people to access this wonderful website, http://www.hinduwisdom.com, excellent research work. Further recently i bought world history encyclopedia, it doesn’t mention AIT and says it is not proven scietifically. Further Scientific verification of Vedas by David H Osborn i.e Swami vishnu is worth watching. This theory is disapproved on archaeological finding, Discovery of ancient saraswati river etc. The text is available at http://www.archaeologyonline.net
These resources are enough further Yogis who ‘ ve achieved samadhi have clearly emphasised on oneness of origin of Humanity
Thanks rashmi…thanks for sharing ..could you share any documentary on this subject…I am too just a seeker on this baseless theory….a video is better any day !..:)
@akhand- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAdiJ8ZMurA
“Some had suggested that the Harappan heartland received its waters from a large glacier-fed Himalayan river, thought by some to be the Sarasvati, a sacred river of Hindu mythology. However, the researchers found that only rivers fed by monsoon rains flowed through the region.”
“The scientists detailed their findings online May 28 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.”
http://news.yahoo.com/huge-ancient-civilization-collapse-explained-123449804.html
Hi,
I dont know if you know the Lost city of Krishna dwarka was recovered from the ocean, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wVhgsLPUVu0, dating back atleast 7500 BC which was far beyond the date given to Harappan civilisation, another of my argument is i didnt say Harappan civilisation was receing water from Saraswati river, you please better read my comments again, i said the river saraswati is mentioned in Hindu texts which was long gone before the Harappan civilisation came into existence, thus if Vedic people have ever conquered Dravidian so called then they could have not known this river, another point dravid is also sanskrit word, and to your comments Vedic people were nomads, do you have any proof, all the archelogical proofs shows they were much advanced civilisation, read the hindu texts which talks about so many things like surgery etc which people could come to know only much recently.
Please see the experts views as given in Wikipedia.
“The oldest preserved parts of the text are not thought to be appreciably older than around 400 BCE, though the origins of the story probably fall between the 8th and 9th centuries BCE.[2] The text probably reached its final form by the early Gupta period (ca. fourth century CE).”
“The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE, and the “circum-Vedic” texts, as well as the redaction of the Samhitas, date to c. 1000-500 BCE, resulting in a Vedic period, spanning the mid 2nd to mid 1st millennium BCE, or the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age.”
The evidence is also given there.
So, Krishna of Mahabharatha cannot be 7500 BC. In fact, as expressed by many in this site Mahabharata and Ramayana are just mythical stories. No expert has said the findings were that of Krishna’s Dwarakha. A piece of wood not shaped by man was dated as very old. That does not prove that the city under the sea is that old. Most likely that city is part of the Indus Valley Civilization.
About surgery etc those are not as old as the vedas. They were later writings. Saraswati river is mentioned in the vedas and the reference above shows that vedas are not as old as the Indus Valley civilization whose hey day was 3500 BC. If Saraswati has nothing to do with Indus Civilization, which you have admitted, then it would be wrong to call Indus Valley Civilization as Saraswati (Sindhu) civilization.
Hi,
You are one heck of admanent son of adam, arnt you? who doesnt believe in any of the scientic findings, first of all excations from the so called Dwarka is vedic period civilisation, you havnt carefully saw the documentry, remains of temples of krishna were receovered not only that other artifacts which proves this was vedic civilisation and carbon dating and other dating analysis confirmed this city is older than Harappan civilisation. I would request you to first tell me if you are Muslim or christian coz if you either of this, then i can understand it is hard for you believe as this proves your scriptures and your vision of god and civilisation completely in valid, and i dont want to get into any religious argument and i would like to politely tell you if people here believe that RAMA and KRISHNA are MYTHICAL Charracters than whole argument regarding the Vedic civilisation goes wrong, the heart of VEDIC civilisation is VISHNU so you are not right my dear in saying that people here are discussing that these are mythical charracters.
Now coming back to Vedic age, the most earliest form of Vedas are dated back to 1500 BC but i assume you are not from Sanathan Dharma and would like to tell you the earliest form of Vedas were actually handed down from generation to generation Verbally, now i dont understand why you dont understand the saraswati river was long dried up before Indus civilisation came into existence so then how the people of vedas knew about this river, I never said Vedic civilisation is Harappan civilisation, but could prove otherwise too, people still dont know if the symbols on the seals found in Harappa are actually the just the symbols or the language other argument was Harapan people were follower of Shiva, since the siva lingam’s presence were found in the cities, bulls in seal, people in mediation etc on the seal also found out, another argument is since the layer after layer of harappa and mohandejaro reveled no sign of any agression from any body and the latest research also proves…
With so much going on this page about Tamilians and between tamilians , I was good to read that Tamils from Tamil Nadu which is as per me in today’s time the real seat of Hindu religion, are participating actively.
In this sense the passage I am mentioning below would make sense.
I was contemplating , that whether today’s tamil nadu and its tamils hold the more correct,complete knowledge in its ancient and original form compare to any other state in india, this make sense since muslims attacked primarily north india and corrupted and destroyed the orginality in delhi etc.
The south india i feel was comparatively less spoiled and corrupted by muslims.And in south india , more so i feel Tamilnadu houses the hinduism in its most original form.Perhaps we should look and delve down more deeper into Tamil literature and books.
A hindu of tamil nadu perhaps would be a more hindu in his daily rituals compared to North Indians in a general way.!
However,having said that it is sad for all of you to know that India in its mindless equality goals of all relgions is undermining Hindu religion itself , infact Tamil nadu is doing that itself.
To know more how hindus are mistreated in tamil nadu in a bit more detail , you may read the below information.
Sometimes I wonder how much we would be able to defend or right of religion by having our ideas posted on Agniveer.com,thankfully atleast some have taken lead.
Om.!
—>”the Tamil Nadu government claims to be secular but has been treating Hindu institutions and temples differently compared to institutions of other religions. The Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Department administers 36,425 temples, 56 mutts, 47 temples belonging to mutts, 1721 specific endowments and 189 trusts. The department claims to be watching over all religious institutions to maintain secularism but it has only been looking over the Hindu religious institutions and this policy is not being applied to any other religions like Christian or Islamic institutions.
The indifference…
====> (2) this is in continuation to what I posted regarding treatment of hindus in Tamil Nadu..! Read on…!
The indifference and lack of stance against such an issue by Hindus along with the pushy missionaries being let into the region are the two main causes of such an injustice. This has allowed the Tamil Nadu government to process the way it does, assuming such a level of control.
Prominent mutts of the 1840’s—when the British ruled—were asked to take over certain temples and endowments. The heads of these mutts made sure to get written documents from the British Government assuring the mutts that the temples would not be taken into repossession by the government.
The mutts ran the temples well and efficiently using funds provided where they should have been used—to perform important rituals and for renovations in the temple. Overall, the funds were used for the primary purpose of the temple—supporting worship. However, contrary to this, thousands of other religious institutions were simply handed over to the trustees with the government providing little or no supervision at all with what was being done with the funding and whether it was being utilized for the purpose of which it was given for.
The Madras Hindu Religious Endowment Act of 1925, was passed by the local Legislature for the purpose of providing better governance and administration of Hindu temples. This act was widely changed and adapted several times to consolidate the government’s power over the Hindu institutions, both before and after Independence. After independence, the act was widely expanded.
What Hindus must remember is that it is not the job of a government body to rule over and administer what is going on with Hindu temples, especially when the same body is not doing the same for churches and mosques in the same region. There must be something wrong if policies that were originated, to be applied to all religions, are only being applied to one religion continuously. Hindus should group together and petition against…
Barely seven years after Prof. B B Lal penned “The Sarasvati Flows On: The Continuity of Indian Culture” (2002)[ also at Nausharo in pre-partition India (now Pakistan), French excavator Jean-Francois Jarrige], the defiantly-in-denial UPA has been forced to admit the existence of the Pre Harappan civilization- the Vaidic Saraswati Civilisation-the oldest civilisation of India, supporting this bold hypothesis is powerful evidence from hydrology, geology, literature, archaeology and radiocarbon dating, in response to a parliamentary question, the government revealed that a study by scientists of ISRO, Jodhpur, and the Rajasthan Government’s Ground Water Department has found irrefutable evidence of palaeo-channels and archaeological sites of pre-Harappan, Harappan and post-Harappan ages, indicating the existence of a mighty river matching descriptions of the Saraswati in Vedic literature.
But who were these Vedic people ?
Were they Aryan invaders as we were taught in school, or indigenous ancestors whose achievements were ‘stolen’ by ascribing them to so-called Aryans, a people who have left no traces of like achievements in any of the lands from where they supposedly descended upon the Indian plains?
This era also created the ploughshare and spoked wheel, the tandoor and roti, chulha and chapatti, and pots and pans and other vessels of daily use.
But, who were these Vedic people ?
There was a rich industry in bead-making, shell, ivory-working, mainly copper and bronze, though gold and silver ornaments had also arrived.
Truly a Golden Age. The only thing missing is the inscrutable script, surely a precursor to Brahmi, the language that developed later!
This is augmented by the famous limestone statuette of the Mohenjo-daro priest-king, with his eyes introvert and eyelids half-closed, a meditative form later associated with Buddhist tradition, especially in Tibet and China.
Yet this form of dhyana is mentioned in the Bhagvadgita (ch. 6, verse 13) which states that the gaze should be fixed on the tip of the…
@satyaaasman
——-@tamilscafe (where aryans are not allowed) hey what if aryan dravidian theory is right. what is your mentality agains us aryans——–
Have you read all my comments on this page??!! please read first…
———our hairs are more important than your lives so r u gonna be join LTTE or join dmk or aidmk——–
First do your research you baby jake about LTTE, DMK, ADMK (FYI, admk is ruling political party of Tamilnadu)
If I say your mother, father, sisters lives are equal to my hairs then think what a responsible son would do??!! I would do the same??!!
——why you hate hindi so much. means you want to die more than you want to learn hindi ——
Why I DO have to learn Hindi, why don’t we all learn Tamil first? tell me first about it? What is wrong in proud of your mother tonque??!! if you are not from Tamilnadu have you learned tamil?? if not then you got the answer why we don’t want to learn Hindi (By the way, I personally feel learning additional language would always help you to get on with more people). First learn, hindi is India’s official language or not??!!
—–they say kashmir and tamilnadu are same just there is muslims supported by paki and here is tamils supported by tamils. why there is so much hatred———-
they??!! (your parents??) ok learn from today, innocents of any country should be respected be it Indians, Americans, Pakistanis etc.
—Tamils supported by tamils— Are you joking?? Brothers help each other (I also learned all Indians are brothers and sisters) didn’t you learn this ?? If muslims are supported by Pakistanis, what is wrong in it?? but condemn people supporting terrorism (killing innocents)!!
@kb —-
Why are we still entertaining this kid?
Trolls enjoy attention…I humbly suggest the ban hammer for the IP address in question—-
Even his comments were deleted here, I wanted to reply because he is not enemy to hate but a brother to explain.
@tamilscafe (hindi killer) you need to learn hindi coz majority of indians speak it. it is kinda glue which holds india. . . . . . . nobody is saying u to not to have proud on tamil, but do u think that punjab gujrat maharashtra goa bengal etc peoples are not proud of their culture. even kerla karnatka and ap has hindi in their syllabus. why u didnt included? why an army man finds communication difficult in tamilnadu?… . . . . why u cant be like punjab.do u think that punjab has been loosing its culture by knowing hindi? WHY TAMILNADU IS LIKE KASHMIR WHERE SOUL OF INDIA DOESNT WANT TO LIVE ? OR WANT TO LIVE BUT U DONT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . SORRY FOR MY HAIR COMMENT.
@satyaaasman
Your apologies are accepted… (this is how our fishermen’s lives were treated and very surprisingly we still love this country because we think we are Indians and we are proud of it)
—WHY TAMILNADU IS LIKE KASHMIR WHERE SOUL OF INDIA DOESNT WANT TO LIVE ?——
Which part of India’s soul you are talking about? (if you don’t behave nice then your soul can’t live happily anywhere in the world, there are many north Indians get beaten up in Australia, does it mean that all NI’s are bad or all Australians are bad? India is a secular and free country satyaasman)
Do you know how many north & south (from other parts) Indians are living in tamilnadu?
—OR WANT TO LIVE BUT U DONT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . —- I don’t understand this part?
—-why an army man finds communication difficult in Tamilnadu?… ——
Would this scenario applies to tamil army personal too 🙂
Army man should go to all over India and world if it is necessary, do you get my point?
(They will suit themselves very well to situations, so you don’t worry about them)
—-why u can’t be like Punjab. do u think that punjab has been loosing its culture by knowing hindi?—-
I don’t know much about Punjab, by the way do you know that some of NI politicians when they come Tamilnadu to canvass votes during parliamentary elections they speak Tamil too 🙂 do you ever think of it? (Because its survival of the fittest)
Can you ask our Gov to pass a G.O to announce Hindi as official language of India?
——–you need to learn hindi coz majority of indians speak it.——-
Majority of Indians are Hindus, can you ask every other religious people to learn Hinduism regardless of their practice?
Simple question, if a Tamilian needs to live in NI then he should learn Hindi BUT IF NI COMES TO LIVE IN TAMILNADU THEN ALL TAMILIANS SHOULD LEARN HINDI BECAUSE IT’S EASY AND CONVINIENT FOR YOU (soul of India)?? What logic are you talking about?? By the way English becomes India’s official…
@tamilscafe(hindi not) i just want to compare the case of hindi in punjab and tamilnadu. the problem is that u all have been living in self denial. almost every punjabi know hindi besides punjabi. they have no problem hindi being gov. lang.. 4 sake of votes NI politicians speak tamil in tamilnadu. its coz u dont understand iota of hindi. when the same politicians go to gujrat or punjab or goa etc they speak hindi. now what? do u want to say punjabi gujrati dont care abt their culture. THE KILLING OF FISHEREN IS HORRIBLE BUT U HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT U R AS MUCH RESPONSIBLE AS GOV. OF INDIA. and tamil army personals learns hindi.they get hindi classes in army.coz hindi is. . . . . . . . . . . . . u know. in army english comes handy only at officers rank. EVEN KERLA,A.P. AND KARNATKA RECOGNISED HINDI WHY NOT U? I JUST WANT VECTOR ANSWERS.
@satyaaasman- You are wrong to say this.. it is not hindi which has glued us.. its the indianess… by the way my mother tongue is hindi but i dont think hindi is official language of union of india due to some merit.. i find kanada and tamil for that matter more suitable for national language.. BTW arab/madarsa mindset cannot understand what is meant by pluralism in the society…
Rajiv Malhotra exposing indologists
http://www.youtube.com/user/WavesOrlando#p/u/2/b2v8Fnuv2ps
This video explains how these evangelists approached the dravidian theory from demonisation to christianisation of tamils.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WavesOrlando#p/u/1/sTgHiLisedU
“The Dravidian Race Theory was formulated by British missionaries in the 1800s in parallel with the Aryan theory, and it divides the peoples of India into racial categories of “Aryans” and “Dravidians.” Western scholars and institutions continue to support Dravidian racism, which is dependent upon acceptance of the Aryan race construct.”
@tamilscafe (hindi not) atleast for once go outside the boundary of tamilnadu.u come to know why we need hindi.. . . . . . . . . . . . . i am not telling to learn the hardcore hindi even i dont know it.but speaking hindi whats in it yaar. as simple as anythin. every state except yours subscribed to it. but u dont. I M JUST SAYING PROBLEM IS S TH ELSE ISNT IT?
@satyaaasman– why are stressing on non an issue which really doesnot matter… i m sure new generation knows manageable hindi… anyways being an India i m proud to say that tamil is worlds oldest language which is still in daily usage… read this and cut this crap out http://business.in.com/article/hindsight/tamil-nadu-rediscovers-hindi/10612/1 ….
@nikhil i m not against tamil. thats a brilliant language. but knowing hindi doesnt belittle or harm hindi. the tamil people have connected learning hindi to their ego.
Lets forgot it what people did in past… things are changing and changing for good….
—-The Tamil literary works started using the word “Dravida” only in the 9th century AD but that too only in the context of linguistics. ————
Can anybody say the name of any of those books which first mentions about the word “Dravida”
Another interesting info (please see attached below) that I want to share with you lot in this regard, if any one have logical response please comment on this article.
@tamilscafe you didnt respond to me.u gotta agree that u r wrong on this issue of langu…
@satyaaasman,
—–@satyaaasman- You are wrong to say this.. it is not hindi which has glued us.. its the indianess… by the way my mother tongue is hindi but i dont think hindi is official language of union of india due to some merit.. i find kanada and tamil for that matter more suitable for national language.. ——
I thought you got appropriate response from Nikhil in this regard, ok, have you answered all my questions? instead copy paste all my posts that I posted in my blog I request you to respond in there I will take you further.
——@nikhil i m not against tamil. thats a brilliant language. but knowing hindi doesnt belittle or harm hindi——-
Kido I am not against of learning Hindi but forcing!!? do you understand that?? if not let me know I will explain with examples.
——-the tamil people have connected learning hindi to their ego——
It’s your mentality that we are connecting hindi to our ego, it’s you who thinks everyone in India should learn Hindi because its more easy for you (am I wrong, I don’t think so)
Read the post that I have pointed to and answer me?? I don’t think you would.
—-i m not against tamil. thats a brilliant language—-
It’s getting interested here, I appreciate your comments and I never comment anything bad about Hindi, did I (why don’t you understand that)? who said I am against hindi??
Ok, now simple question, do you speak Tamil? your parents speak Tamil? if not why don’t you ask them to learn Tamil if we make Tamil as our national language??
For example, tiger is our national language not rat (same theory applies to peacock too), I HOPE YOU GET MY POINT, QUALITY MATTERS NOT QUANTITY!!
—@tamilscafe (hindi not) atleast for once go outside the boundary of tamilnadu.u come to know why we need hindi—–
Who said that I never go out of Tamilnadu 🙂 don’t make me laugh Satyaaasman. By the way who said that I can’t speak Hindi to you?? interesting isn’t it??