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GiveAahuti

UPI
agniveerupi@sbi,
agniveer.eazypay@icici

PayPal
[email protected]

Agniveer® is serving Dharma since 2008. This initiative is NO WAY associated with the defence forces scheme launched by Indian Govt in 2022

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Islam and Hinduism Debate

Agniveer
By Agniveer
Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

This entry is part [part not set] of 19 in the series Zakir Naik Exposed

Zakir Naik Exposed

Note: In the whole website in general and this article in particular, we mean by “Muslims” only fanatics like Zakir Naik who believe in killing of apostates and hell for every Non Muslim. This analysis does not apply to the peaceful Muslims who believe that good Non Muslims will also go to heaven and apostates too have right to live and propagate their new faith.  

Quran is the book of signs and not science. This is the famous quote of Zakir Naik, the famous Wahabi/Qadiyani preacher (this confusion still remains because he uses Qadiyani sources to prove divinity of Islam from Hindu scriptures but on the other hand his Peace TV Wahabi ally and speaker Israr Ahmed declares Qadiyanis as Wazib ul Katl/fit to be killed).

But whatever be the case with his sect, his quote draws attentions of both intellectuals as well as fanatics. It makes clear that Islam is not at all for those who want to judge everything around with logic and reasoning before accepting it as truth. On the other hand it is a treasure for those who believe signs (not science)/miracles to be the basis of TRUTH that they can never verify!

Advent of Zakir Naik has pumped Wahabi Muslims in India with unprecedented energy and petrodollars that he gets from his Arab masters. Wahabis have started campaigns of proving Islam logical. Zakir Naik has mentored his disciples so smartly in linking Islam and science (logic and reasoning) that in spite of having least/no formal education, understanding, and representation in science, it is Muslims, today, who talk about science the most! Many of them are masters in proving how the miracles of moon breaking and Kaba at the center of the earth have been accepted by NASA 🙂 Cyberspace is full of discussions of such Islamic scientists trying to convince others about the TRUTH of Islam. Interestingly, now Wahabis have started challenging Hindus for the debates!

Many Muslims every now and then throw challenges of debates at us if we have guts. Many Hindus ask us to debate Zakir Naik and settle the Islam and Hinduism issue forever. Agniveer challenged Zakir and his team for debate many times but he refused each time. Did Agniveer do right in challenging Jihadis for debate? In our opinion, no!

Though we appreciate Agniveer for their attempts to expose the self proclaimed scholar/expert in Islam and comparative religion Zakir Naik face to face in front of public, we do not agree with the idea of debates with any Jihadi in general and Zakir Naik in particular. Thus we differ with Agniveer at this point. And this article covers the reasons why we don’t consider Jihadis like Zakir Naik worth debating. All Muslims who dream of debating Hindus should read it carefully. All Hindus who want to see us debate with Jihadis must read it. Anyone who gives/accepts offer of debate with Muslims should read it because whom to talk logically and whom to ignore/reply in their own tone, is also the part of logic.

1. What is debate? Can Muslims debate?

Debate is a process of exchanging thoughts between two or more ideologies in order to reach closer to the truth in friendly manner. A truth seeker remains always in a state of debate within. Debate is nothing but to challenge an old ideology with new thoughts and if found necessary, the old stand is modified in order to face new challenges/questions that will further lead to rectification of our thoughts. And this process goes on and on. This is the basis of science and philosophy. Prerequisite of debate is nothing but to accept that I will modify my stand if needed. In other words, it is to accept that my current belief may not be perfect and I am ready to refine it.

But is this possible in Islam? No, because Islam is defined as the complete belief in Allah, Muhammad, heaven, hell, angels, judgment day, Quran etc. As soon as you question/disbelief/agree to accept that there may be imperfection in the concept of any of the above, you are no more a Muslim. 🙁

And unfortunately, any Muslim, if labeled as Non Muslim, propagates his new belief, is to be put to death!

This is what Zakir Naik says

So when it is proven that any Muslim (as per the definition of Quran) does not fulfill the prerequisite of debate, how can there be debate with him? Moreover, if someone ensures that he does not believe in killing of apostates, he automatically becomes apostate because of disbelief in Quran and Sunna duo. So in one case Jihadis can’t fulfill the condition for debate and in other case they no longer remain Muslims even before starting the debate.

There is no third case unluckily 🙁

2. Purpose of debate

We have elaborated what we see as debate and what is the purpose behind it for us. We are ready to convert to Islam if we get convinced with it, there is no one to kill us. But what will Zakir Naik or any of his Mujahid do if he loses the debate (we don’t believe in winning/losing concepts while seeking truth but it is the style of Jihadis and thus we used it)?

For sure any Jihadi will not leave Islam because that will lead to threat to his life as per Zakir’s words! Who knows after Zakir Bhai leaves Islam, his own IRF Madarsa students start searching him to kill him and fulfill the desire of their great mentor, expressed in the video above?

So when this is sure that even after losing the debate, no Muslim will leave Islam and on other hand, we, being truth seeker, will accept Islam, if we lose debate to a Muslim, why should we debate with them in first place?

If Muslims win, we convert but if we win, Muslims do not convert, then why the hell we should debate?

Is this not heads I win tails you lose situation for Momins? Muslims have motivation of converting me behind debating, but what is the motivation I have except increasing the number of my enemies that will threaten me for committing blasphemy and curse me to hell?

3. What is the common ground in Hindu-Muslim debate?

For any debate to happen, there are certain common grounds on the basis of which one convinces the other. The most common among those is common sense itself! Logic/reasoning, science are others on which one should rely while having dialogues for truth seeking. When I back my argument with such commonly accepted facts/arguments, my counterpart has to accept it and if I go against these, I have to leave that claim and accept my fault. For example, everyone today agrees that earth is not flat but almost spherical. And now if someone claims that a point (Kaba idol) on the surface of earth is the center of the earth, his claim automatically vaporizes because a sphere has its center inside it, not on its surface as per established Mathematical principles!

Similarly, if one claims that a camel was born out of stone, or stones ran away stealing clothes of Moses and wept on beating, it is simply ridiculous as per logic and thus can never be accepted in debates. When one claims that God created everything out of nothing (no matter/energy) by saying Kun Faykun in Arabic, it goes against the basic principles of science of conservation of mass/energy. Same applies with the stories of heaven, hell, Satan, Allah sitting on 7th heaven (why not on 2nd or 3rd.. ?), Muhammad’s flying donkey, Jesus born without father, and countless such signs/miracles believed in Islam. And when Muslims are asked to prove these, they simply say Allah is above all. But unfortunately they forget that “Allah is above all” was not at all the common ground on which our debate started! It is just your belief that is being cross examined in the very process of debate and thus you can’t use it as argument! So this way, Muslims and a truth seeker find no common ground for debate 🙁

Another problem with Islam is the moral standards it sets for its followers and believes those to be universal i.e. to be accepted by every human. Polygamy, sex slavery that is equivalent to rape (which most of the Momins fail to realize), pedophilia, incest, blind belief in unseen (Gaib), blind belief in every verse of Quran even if you don’t understand an iota of it being Non Arab, waging war against infidels for the only reason that they are idolaters/disbelievers, etc are few examples of low standards of morality in Islam.

Now imagine, while debate, someone asks Muslims why Islam allows rape and polygamy? Why Islam believes in pedophilia? Why Muhammad married a girl of 6? Why Muhammad raped his concubines (Safia and Rehana etc), why captured them in first place? Why he kept slaves? In the reply Muslims attempt to defend such heinous acts that they can never tolerate if done to their own mothers and sisters! They conclude saying that in the wars, it was custom of capturing women and treating them as sex objects and thus Muhammad did not do wrong. But we don’t accept it at all. For us polygamy, sex slavery (rape), abduction are all crimes and we don’t argue with those believing in these. We simply can’t accept someone to be “the best man lived on earth ever” who practiced pedophilia and captured/enslaved/raped women in wars. So here again there is no consensus b/w us and Muslims on what is the moral benchmark to call an act as crime.

One can ask, many Hindus also believe in books like Puranas in which one finds lot of immoral acts. Then why you go after Islam every time? It is because Muslims believe that anyone who does not believe in such prophet and practices, will be thrown in hellfire but that is not the case with Hindus. You can deny/condemn the stories of Puranas and still get the bliss. But can anyone Muslim or Non Muslim deny/condemn such Islamic practices and acts of prophet and still get heaven? NO. Moreover, in Islamic countries, any Non Muslim has no right of preaching his religion. He has no right to call polygamy and sex slavery as ill practices at all. On the other hand, Hindus don’t claim exclusivity of truth in their texts alone. They never curse non believers to eternal hell unlike Islam/Muslims. They never stopped Muslims to practice and preach their religion in India.

So I have on one side, the tolerant Hindus who allow even the fanatics like Zakir Naik to spew their venom on Hinduism and to openly threaten the apostates, and on other side I have Muslims who are all set to prohibit the preaching of Hinduism in India the day they succeed in imposing Shariyat (Islamic Law) here.

So whom should I target? Now can any Muslim suggest me why should I put Islam and Hinduism on the same level while analyzing and criticizing ill practices of both?

4. Burden of Proof is on Muslims

As discussed above, Muslims believe that non believers will be in hell. They invite Hindus to Islam saying that Quran is perfect and each of its word is to be believed as final truth in order to remain safe from hell. Now this claim of Muslims/Islam brings a responsibility on them and that is to PROVE EACH WORD OF QURAN AS FINAL TRUTH. Since they want me to surrender to each word of Quran or else Allah will put me in hell and they will restrict my freedom as soon as Shariyat works in India, I want them to prove each word of Quran as final truth and this is my right. Without this, if I believe Quran to be ultimate, I will cheat my soul and God that I deviated from the path of truth seeking and believed something due to fear or superstition. So now can Muslims prove each word of Quran as final truth? If no, they have no right to curse me to hell or restrict me as per stupid unverifiable Shariyat.

Since no Muslim can ever understand complete Quran (there are many verses in Quran that no one can understand, for example 2:1, 13:1, 29:1 etc) forget about proving it in front of me, Muslims should leave their claim of Quran to be ultimate truth for entire humanity and those who don’t believe it are to be fought [as per Quran 9:29] in order to be fit to debate with reason and logic. But as soon as they do that, they deny [9:29] and thus become apostate/fit to be killed as per Zakir Naik 🙁 So the only way out for truth seeker Muslims is to openly denounce the ill practices of Islam which are the biggest hinderances in truth seeking.

5. Hypocrisy of Jihadi debaters

Jihadis often vomit few lines while debating Hindus to prove Hinduism as false. But in this zeal, they often forget the facts related to Islam that we are giving in brackets.

-Lol.. Ram left Sita for none of her sin. (In Islam, any man can divorce his wife without her consent any time)

-Krishna married 16000 women. (Muhammad married more than 10 and kept many sex slaves. He used to buy slaves. He used to capture women in wars and rape them. (Rehana and Safia). One of the prophets of Islam, Solomon married hundreds of wives and still remained prophet 🙁 )

-Krishna danced with Gopis. So vulgar and immoral! (Muhammad used to fondle his wives during their menses. He allowed his men to rape women of enemies, refer Bukhari 7/62/137, Muslim 8:3371)

-Shiva cut Ganesha’s head and then made him alive by fitting elephant’s head on his shoulder. Lol.. How can the head of elephant befit on a human’s shoulder? (Allah turned Jews into apes. Allah gave child to virgin marry. Muhammad flew to heavens on a flying donkey. But don’t ask how man can turn ape or a virgin can conceive or a donkey can fly! Only Allah knows the best!)

-Lol.. Hindus worship false gods.. So funny! Bowing to false gods aka idols can never benefit or harm the worshipper. Then why you Hindus worship false gods? Lol.. (Kissing, bowing, and circumambulating the Kaba idol cant harm anyone nor it can benefit. Why such stupid rituals then?)

-Vedas say earth is static. Scientific errors in Vedas.. (Stones ran away stealing Moses’ clothes and wept when beaten. She camel was born from stone. Sun after setting goes straight under the throne of Allah and waits Allah’s commands to come out for next day! All this is super science, can someone call these as errors?)

-Vedas say Brahma practiced incest. He ran after his daughters. (Sons and daughters of Adam and Eve who were siblings, had sex with each other 🙁 But who can say it as incest? It was divine method of all wise Allah to start humans which was later considered as sin)

-Vedas have many Mantras related to fighting and brutal killings of enemies and non believers. (Hundreds of Quranic verses that talk of Jihad against polytheists and disbelievers and curse them to eternal hell are not at all violent! After all Allah is merciful and Islam means peace!)

-Vedas are lost.. (Uthman chose one version of Quran to protect and burnt all other existing in his time 🙁 That’s great! Burn everything and call yours as true and uncorrupted! Shia Muslims claim original Quran to be of 17000 verses, three times the current Sunni/Wahabi Quran. Who is to believe?)

-Vedas are corrupted.. (Quran was corrupted by none other than Satan 🙁 You will find Satanic verses in Quran!)

-Muhammad is prophesied in Hindu scriptures.. etc etc.. (Those scriptures call Muhammad as demon and ghost http://agniveer.com/479/prophet-puran/ ! Do Muslims agree?)

So we see that Muslims start analyzing ill practices of Hinduism logically and morally but they forget to do same for theirs. Can I debate someone who ridicules miracles of others but believes Islamic miracles as TRUE and prays hell for those who disbelieves in Islamic miraculous TRUTH?

6. Equity for debate- do Muslims and Hindus get equal opportunities?

Muslims in India demand debates with us. They demand freedom of preaching their religion and to convert Hindus to Islam. Muslims enjoy religious freedom like any other in India. Now we ask, just as a Muslim in India can preach Quran, can I preach Vedas in Saudi Arabia? No, I can’t. Because preaching Vedas, in Islamic countries, is equivalent to teach 2+2=5 in front of Math teacher as per Zakir Naik. So I can’t preach Vedas anywhere in the world where Muslims have Shariyat. Also, I will not be able to preach Vedas in my own country India if Zakir Naik and co gets successful in imposing Shariyat here. So what should I do now?

For equality, it is compulsory that like Muslims in India, Hindus too should be granted permission and security to propagate their religion in Islamic countries.

Equality says that Zakir Naik and Muslims build mosques in India and we build temples in Saudi Arabia.

Equality says that Muslims built Babri Mosque at Ram Mandir, we build Ram Mandir near Masjid ul Haram in Mecca.

Equality says that Muslims demand Shariyat in India and Hindus demand Hindu laws in Saudi.

Equality says that Muslims convert Hindus in India, Hindus convert Muslims in Saudi, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, and Somalia.

Equality says that Muslims have rights to question/ridicule Vedas in India, Hindus have rights to question/ridicule Islam in Muslim countries.

One of the Muslim bloggers from India once posted a link on our site that was claimed to be the response of one of our articles, he, in his response had written about Eeshvar of Hinduism-

Only the Protestant Hindu god (Ishwar) would need to steal things…

He further wrote about Swami Dayanand (Moolshankar was his previous name), the famous Hindu Acharya-

This also shows how Moolshankar swallowed the excreta of philosophers and atheists’

Now this needs some attention. Just imagine how much freedom India has given to Muslims. They can call Hindu God as stealer and Hindu role models to be the swallowers of excreta of others and still enjoy living in India. Now equality demands that if a Muslim sitting in India can insult Hindu legends with these words, any Hindu should also be given this freedom to state the following in Mecca and be given state protection-

“Muhammad swallowed the excreta of Jew and Christian philosophers”

And unless Hindus don’t get equal rights as Muslims, how can there be debate between the two? If I am not allowed to question/ridicule Quran in Islamic country, why will/should I allow any brain dead Jihadi to question/ridicule Vedas and Vedic Philosophy in India?

But in the current situation, without equal rights, Muslims remain oppressors and Hindus remain oppressed and there can’t be any debate in the situation of oppression. First there should be the demand of equal rights and then any talks. We will be ready to debate Muslims if they agree with our demands of equality everywhere. Are we asking too much? Even if it is, so be it and so be the debate 🙂

7. Should we debate terrorists?

According to Zakir Naik’s ally and peace TV speaker Israr Ahmed, Muslim armies will attack India for the last time and establish the Islamic Caliphate again (This has been called as Ghazwa e Hind/conquest of India). This operation of Islamization of India at the point of the sword will be carried out by Muslim forces of Indian subcontinent. He ensures the Muslims in Pakistan that this final conquest of India is pre destined and it was prophesied by none other than Prophet Muhammad in one of His Hadith.

Now it is impossible that Zakir Naik does not know what his fellow terrorist has said in Pakistan and also that he can disbelief in the Hadith Israr quoted. So Zakir and his Wahabi Mujahids are certainly the part of this dangerous game being played against their own motherland India.  Please visit Zakir Naik- Traitor to know in detail about the plans of traitors of India under the name of Islam.

Dear readers Hindus as well as Muslims, who love their country and consider it as their mother should awake now and start campaigning for the ban on Zakir lead Wahabi terrorist gangs throughout India.

So now after knowing that the ultimate objective of Zakir and his Jihadis is to see Islamic caliphate in India with the help of anti Indian elements, is there anything left for which we should debate them? They are terrorists literally then how is debate coming into the picture? Have we gone insane that we will debate those who are ready to repeat the bloody history of Islamic invasion/rule in India? Should not we get united against the terrorists and kick them out of our country rather than giving them opportunity to ridicule our Dharma, Vedas and role models anymore?

Accepting every challenge is not at all bravery. In fact it is to be worked out rationally as to which person/ideology is worth discussing and which one is the ghost of kicks. And we conclude saying we will not debate anyone who

-believes in killing of apostates preaching their new faith

-believes in hypocrisy

-believes in unequal treatment of Non Muslims and Muslims anywhere

-believes in the eternal hellfire for those who differ with his beliefs

-believes the hadith of Islamic conquest of India to be true and does not condemn this hadith as well as its believers

In the end we clarify that denying any debates with Jihadis does not mean we stop analyzing Islam. We will continue to do that and put our views forth so that people can get aware of Islam as well as Vedic Dharma. However anybody dreaming debate with us needs to fulfill the above prerequisites. We welcome all those who want to discuss anything with us in friendly and compassionate manner and thus agree to our above criteria. We recommend every Hindu to make sure Jihadis you are debating fulfill these conditions.

 

धर्मो रक्षति रक्षितः !

You protect Dharma, Dharma will protect you!

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Read Post Disclaimer

It is possible that this post is based on the translations and commentaries of Islamic texts like Quran, Hadiths etc. as published by all major Islamic publishing sources. These are the publicly available translations that are used for promotion of Islam by prominent representatives.

We, however, believe that most of these texts have been wrongly translated, misinterpreted, misquoted or even have been tampered with and interpolated to suit the selfish designs of proponents of Islam after Muhammad. Thus, we believe that original Islam and original Quran of Muhammad are totally different from what have been propagated by his followers in name of Islam. There are few minority groups in Muslims whose scholars subscribe to our views and interpret/translate Islamic texts differently or even refuse to consider the available Quran and Hadiths as authentic. But these scholars themselves are considered Kafirs and are condemned by a dominant elite group of Islam. Thus, when we refer to Islam, we actually imply these dominant elites of Islam and not Muslims or all Islamic scholars in general.

Wherever we critically evaluate Muhammad, we imply the fictitious Muhammad propagated by these false texts or their wrong translations and not the original Muhammad. We have high regard for original Muhammad who stood for non-violence and tolerance. Similarly, when we analyze Islamic texts, we refer to these questionable translations/versions and NOT original texts.

Further, we have a sense of the highest level of brotherhood for Muslims in general. Wherever we use the word Muslim in a critical manner, it refers to false representatives of Islam and not Muslims in general. Readers are requested to keep this in mind to understand the correct perspective of such posts on this website.

Nowhere should they assume the words like Islam, Quran, Prophet etc. to be referring to original noble entities, unless it has been referred in a positive light. We restrict ourselves only to notions prevalent in minds of fanatics and those without reason.

अस्वीकरण पढ़ें

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘इस्लाम’ वा ‘मुसलमान’ वा पैग़म्बर आदि मज़हबी शब्दों का प्रयोग हुआ है, उसका अर्थ केवल और केवल इस्लाम वा मुसलमान वा पैग़म्बर आदि शब्दों की वह व्याख्या है जो कट्टर इस्लाम के मशहूर और लोकप्रिय प्रचारक जैसे - ज़ाकिर नाईक़, अंजम चौधरी, हाफ़िज़ सईद, मौलाना इसरार अहमद, मौलाना मसूद अज़हर और उनके समर्थक करते हैं जिसके अनुसार हर ग़ैर-मुसलमान जहन्नम/नर्क की आग में जलेगा और हर इस्लाम छोड़ने वाले को क़त्ल कर देना चाहिए।

इस पूरी वेबसाईट में जहाँ भी ‘क़ुरान’ शब्द प्रयुक्त हुआ है, उसका अर्थ क़ुरान की पुस्तक के वो अनुवाद और व्याख्याएँ हैं जो कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा इंटरनेट और अन्य स्थानों पर प्रचारित-प्रसारित की जाती हैं जिन्हें पढ़कर कमज़ोर दिल के लोग कट्टरता की दिशा में मुड़ रहे हैं। हम जानते हैं कि क़ुरान व उपरिलिखित शब्दों की कुछ व्याख्याएँ ऐसी भी हैं जो हिंसा को आज के दिन ठीक नहीं समझतीं, एवं ग़ैरमज़हबी मानवता पर बल देती है पर ऐसी व्याख्याएँ और व्याख्याता कट्टर इस्लाम के प्रतिनिधियों और उनके अनुयायियों की दृष्टि में मुर्तद (मुसलमान जिसने इस्लाम छोड़ दिया हो) घोषित किए गए हैं। ऐसे व्याख्याता और उनकी व्याख्याएँ इस वेबसाईट के विषय नहीं हैं। चिंता का विषय है कि आज इंटर्नेट आदि माध्यमों में कट्टरवादी व्याख्याओं का बाहुल्य है एवं उदारवादी सहिष्णु व्याख्याएँ दुष्प्राप्य हैं।

हम मानते हैं कि मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर, क़ुरान आदि बहुत प्रेम और आनंद सिखाते होंगे। परंतु इस वेबसाईट में इन शब्दों से केवल वो अर्थ लिए जाएँ जो नवीन लोगों ने अपने हिसाब से अपने मिलावटी ग्रंथ/अनुवाद बना लिए हैं। हम इन मिलावटी ग्रंथों/अनुवादों को ठीक नहीं मानते और हमारी इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर या क़ुरान आदि विषयों की व्याख्या को आज के कट्टरवादी प्रचलित/मिलावटी अनुवादों के संदर्भ में ही लिया जाए। हमारी कोई बात मूल इस्लाम, पैग़म्बर और क़ुरान के लिए नहीं है। उसके लिए तो बस सम्मान है।

किसी भी व्यक्ति, समुदाय, उदारवादी विचारधारा की भावना को ठेस पहुँचाना इस वेबसाईट का उद्देश्य नहीं है। किंतु विषय गम्भीर है, संवेदनशील है। प्रचारित इतिहास पर प्रश्नचिन्ह उठाता है। कुछ स्थानों पर एतिहासिक विषयों को नाटकीय रूप में भी प्रस्तुत किया गया है। अतः यह निवेदन है कि यदि इन विषयों को लेकर आप किंचित भी संवेदनशील है तो इस वेबसाईट को आगे न पढ़ें। यह वेबसाईट केवल परिपक्व मनस हेतु है जो इस अस्वीकरण को ध्यान रखते हुए, हमारी मूल भावना का सम्मान करते हुए, हमारे सृजनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति के अधिकार को अंगीकार कर सकें।

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180 COMMENTS

  1. Yes bash these hypocrite muslims …double standards…they live in India but turn towards mecca to pray.Their loyalty is towards the foriegn pillar kaaba.I love how this article says..“Muhammad swallowed the excreta of Jew and Christian philosophers”….muahahahahaha

  2. बेहतरीन……… मज़ा आया गया पढ़ के…..लिखते रहिये…..और सच की अग्नि को जलाये रखिये…वन्दे मातरम…

    • kewal likhne se kya hoga its time to rise for our own selves as in future indian govt. for votes can do miracles for zakir i was taken aback reading this article and i am afraid

  3. nice, well written article…but I dont think this logic is going to penetrate any Islamic mindset any time soon.

    but couldnt you tone down a bit on the criticism? like >”that in spite of having least/no formal education, understanding, and representation in science, it is Muslims, today, who talk about science the most!”<
    seemed a bit harsh and unfair to me..anyways…cheerios ! keep up the gud work…

  5. Very interesting write up….While I have encountered many of these typical responses (stated above), I now see these responses to have a global ZN pattern / footprint. Let me add one more item to the section “Hypocrisy of debaters.” The foot soldiers of ZN come up with “imagined” competitions amongst Vedic rishis, based on works of Max Muller. But when one reads the RV suktas, the consistency between the content and the messages is extremely easy to observe. Any hymn ascribed to any great soul like Vishwamitra or Vamadeva or Vasishta or Maduchandas provide continuity of the idea of the hymns & the patterns. And Hindus can boldly reject some of the Puranic claims that run contrary to Vedas.

    On the contrary, it is the foot soldiers of ZN that struggle to verify many aspects of the recorded oral narrations, where, they are having to run up and down the chain of the so called narrators and their reliability to accept of reject a certain idea being said. And some of these narrations run contrary to what Muhammad said and did. And these narrators seem to disagree with one another all the time. Of course ZN’s foot soldiers will call upon the defense of sahih hadiths but even here, for instance, on a topic like permanent (nikah) and temporary marriages (nikah mutah), many controversial narrations opposing one another exist both under the sahih and non-sahih categories.

    Look at the irony, Vedas have oral traditions since time immemorial but their fidelity has been protected so religiously by the formula governing interplay between recension, conjugation & declension of mantras. Unlike in the Quran or the Bible, where the word BOOK or indications to something having been written down exist, the Vedas do not have any such pointers, be it in samhitas or in the Brahmanas either. Such was the mechanism of oral tradition. But foot soldiers of ZN, cannot even count on not only narrations but even their recorded copies that are hardly a millennium old.

    I may be digressing a wee bit but so be it. There are at least 12 different types of “pathas” that protect the fidelity of Veda recitals. In each one of these pathas, any error while reciting the mantras can be easily picked up. Such was the zeal with which the mantras were morphed for purposes of fidelity. And even the accent of the recitals have been established under three categories. But those that cannot agree on something as key as permanent or temporary marriages or apostasy during Muhammad’s time or after it, despite many chains of narrations and written manuscripts, will claim that Vedas are lost. And add to this the buried manuscripts of Quran found in the great mosque at Sana, Yemen. These manuscripts fly in the face of the claims of Quran being uncorrupted. The manuscripts not only have different numberings of Quranic verses but they showed signs of having been overwritten multiple times.

    It is not without a reason that UNESCO proclaimed the Veda recital to be a masterpiece of oral heritage of humanity, a few years ago.

    • Brother Apolloreach

      Your love for Vedas is amazing. You write with authority on Vedas that I haven’t seen with much of the people claiming to be Vedic experts. I am yet to understand fully how do you look into philosophy and Karma etc, but it really gives me immense feeling of pride when I see scholars like you and Agniveer among us who remind us of the ancient Rishis today who loved and lived Vedas.

      Hats off to you Bro..

  6. This article reflects the true nature of every fanatic muslim who wants to convert his opponent by twisting lies of their scriptures while debating. Now, these fanatics will think twice before debating anyone.

    great work

  8. Hey folks, check out this great article from a west African writer named Nafata Bamaguje that blows the lid off the 2 most intolerant cults of the world (don’t ask which ones, you all know already!!) and the spurios claim of being universal religions made by them!!

    http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/nafata-bamaguje/islam-is-for-arabs.html

    Brilliantly written, although Satyagni Mahoday has already discussed a majority of these points in great detail already. But there, even the “religion of love” gets exposed!!

    SARVE BHAVANTU SUKHINAHA!!

  9. Another enquiry to make, Satyagni Mahoday!! I know that you’ve already ripped the claims of the universality of the “religion of peace”, nut have you done the same for the “relgion of love”? If so, can you provide me the link for the same??

  10. Can Muslims answer how the prophet Muhammad was possessed by Satan? The Quran says that if you believe with passion in Islam Satan, the main source of all evil in world, cannot harm you or control you, yet Muhammad, the prophet of Islam was possessed twice according to Islamic scholars. Once when Muhammad spoke the Satanic Verses and he told his followers to pray to the 3 goddesses; Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat,and then a 2nd time when he was older when a Jewish man place a demonic spell upon Muhammad.

    If the founder of Islam could not prevent Satan and black magic from controlling him…how could he be the prophet of Islam if Allah could not protect his own prophet? Maybe Satan was controlling him when he created Islam?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yURENfXxgp0

    Can a Muslim please explain this?

  11. Qoran has not asked one to fight with all non-mulims. It simply said “fight with those dis-believers who interrupt you in following your religion and create obstacles in your way”.
    Meaning if any one takes your freedom of religion fight with them. Same thing Lord Krishna has told to Arjuna. Kauravas were in falsehood, hence Lord Krishna ordered Arjuna to fight with Kauravas to remove the falsehood and create truth.

  12. @ Abhijit

    Allah is moody person, there is no rule regulation, disbeliever punished twice by Allah first dis-believer is killed of Momin second punishment of eternal hell given by Allah. Punishment of eternal seems strange to a entity which comes in cycle of creation & destruction. Creation of Soul means there will be destruction of soul one day. Than How is concept of eternal hell/heaven works here. I think Mohammad was very weak in science & Math.

  13. Swami Vivekananda had said: “We not only tolerate, but we Hindus accept every religion, praying in the mosque of the Mohammedans, worshipping before the fire of the Zoroastrians, and kneeling before the cross of the Christians, knowing that all the religions, from the lowest fetishism, mean so many attempts of the human soul to grasp and realize the infinite, each determined by the conditions of its birth and association, and each of them making a stage of progress. We gather all these flowers and bind them with the twine of love, making a wonderful bouquet of worship”. Is this not a good ideology for those who want to believe in some God?

    Now compare this with the beliefs of Semitic religions (Thou shall not have any other God before me – Christians & there is no God but Allah and Mohammed was his last Prophet – Muslims) .

    I do not believe in any god nor do I believe in the dogmas of any religion. At the same time I also do not agree that the Christians and Muslims have some “divine right” to abuse the Hindus, majority of whom are unaware of their belief system. I have no quarrel with the “believers”. Let their belief be confined to the four walls of their houses and respective places of worship. Pl don’t bring god/gods on to the streets and create problem for others.

  14. Question should not be of “believing in SOME God”. Rather the question to be addressed should be “believing in TRUE God”.

    Therefore, our theism or ideology should be based on sound evidences and consistent with the science of logic.

  15. @ ALL

    So we have another event of Terrorist Attack on my Country…Serial Blasts!!…. 3 blasts in Mumbai… 10 have been killed so far!!!… dont know how many are to follow!!!

    THANK YOU JIHADIS, THANK YOU ALLAH!!!

    WHY DONT U BASTARD JIHADIS JUST LEAVE THE COUNTRY… JUST LEAVE!!!! JUST LEAVE BASTARDS!!!!! JUST LEAVE!!!!!!!!!! GET OUT!!!!!!!!!

      • Hehehehehe!!! WHAT a peace, brother!! A peace that leaves everybody in pieces!!! BWAHAHAAHAHAH!! B*st**ds!!

        And, whats more, I bet the “secular” Congress and it’s minions (esp. Digvijay Singh) will plant imaginary evidences to show that some Hindutva brigade was behind all this!! These rascals did nothing to investigate the recent Varanasi blasts and now this!!

        Truly, its not a shaap, but rather a paap to be a Hindu/Sikh in India. All the Abrahamics are actually having a jolly time in the “dar-al-harb” of India, whle the native Dharmics are being sodomized and castrated!!

        What an idea, Sirji !!

  16. Muslims have to give up three things if they want to become Europeans: They have to bid farewell to the idea of converting others, and renounce the Jihad. The Jihad is not just a way of testing yourself but also means using violence to spread Islam. The third thing they need to give up is the Shariah, which is the Islamic legal system. This is incompatible with the German constitution. There are also two things they need to redefine.
    Pluralism and tolerance are pillars of modern society. That has to be accepted. But pluralism doesn’t just mean diversity. It means that we share the same rules and values, and are still nevertheless different. Islam doesn’t have this idea. And Islam also has no tradition of tolerance. In Islam tolerance means that Christians and Jews are allowed to live under the protection of Muslims but never as citizens with the same rights. What Muslims call tolerance is nothing other than discrimination
    For years, Political scientist Bassam Tibi [For years,has been urging Muslims to integrate into European societies and Europe to stand up to Islamists. He spoke with SPIEGEL about the weakness of Europe, the orthodoxy of Islam and what Germany needs to do to open up.]

  17. It took the Catholic Church 359 years to revoke its condemnation of Galileo, but the current Pope needed only two days to distance himself from his quotation of a statement that remains topical despite being uttered 500 years ago.
    Piet Hein Donner, the former Dutch Minister of Justice, who has just resigned from her position, believes Islamic Shariah law could be legally introduced in Holland if two thirds of the Dutch population were to one day approve it.
    The London police has announced it will inform and consult with a board of Muslim community leaders the next time it plans an anti-terrorism operation that affects Muslims.

    And now the Deutsche Oper in Berlin has taken Mozart’s opera “Idomeneo” off its schedule after a “risk analysis” produced by Germany’s Office of Criminal Investigation (LKA) concluded that “the possibility of performances being disrupted cannot be ruled out.”
    The opera is more than 200 years old.
    This performance was to be directed by Hans Neuenfels, and it featured Idomeneo, the King of Crete, stepping onto the stage with a bloody sack containing the severed heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad.
    In Neuenfels’s production, Idomeneo produces the severed heads from the sack and holds them into the air triumphantly.

  18. Namaste Satyagni Ji,

    “FATWA ONLINE | ASK MUFTI ” a great facility you have started on Website. This will help the truth seeker to know about real Islam is not based on rituals/superstitions but based on Veda.
    A lot of thanks to you for this excellent feature “FATWA ONLINE | ASK MUFTI”. This will do great help to all Muslim & non-Muslim.

      • Oh Boy, now I’m truly scared, bro!! Now, this is what I call hardcore taqqiya!! I suddenly get the feeling that Satyagni/Agniveer were mere fronts to attract the attention of us less gullible ones, while ZN and co.’s shenanigans were meant to target the most gullible ones from thr Indian society!!

        I want to live life in a strait jacket now, I’m going mad, seriously!! Satyagni’s being bought over/ hijacked by the Al-Taqqiya Group of Industries head-quartered in Mecca/Medina.EEEEEEEEK!!!

        Either that, or Satyagni’s trying to encourage more and more of those moronic jihadis and
        mahireen-e-taqqiya to abandon their foolish cult and go for rhyme and reason for starters, esp. by using this new Fatwah Online feature!!

        Satyagni Mahoday, please tell me all this is not at all what I’m thinking it is (and no taqqiya, please)!!! Even my typing-font is in green!! AAAARGH!!

        Whatever happened to that relaxing, cool sky blue color scheme!

      • vajra ji stop calling urself a muslim or I will have to be a jihadi for the non believers in kuran hehehehhehehehe

      • Bro Viplove

        No! Thats the beauty of true Quran (Vedas) that there is no concept of disbelief/heaven/hell in them unlike fake books available in the name of Quran these days. So enjoy true Islam 🙂

  21. Please Satyagni Mahoday, I don’t want to be circumcised, I love my foreskin too much to see it leaving me for the sake of “multi-culturalism” and “secularism”!!!

      • @ Bro Vajra and Indian Agnostic:

        Namaste Brother… its a killer blow really… no dodging is gonna work 🙁 …their TAQIYYA has been reduced to tatters 🙂 ….
        Ab apna “Taqiyya” Chaddar Bistar leke So jaao.. Yahan tumhara kaam nahi 😀

        Namaste

  23. Assuming ZN sees all of this – tauba and fatwa on Satyagni, he will rue the pack of lies and the amount of deception he employed for over a decade. He will be feeling sick to his stomach. These days, for sheer entertainment value, when I see ZN on his t.v channel, I end up laughing. Keep up the good work Satyagni. But hey, when Satyagni team is making some changes to the site, please keep us posted. When I landed on the site, I was surprised looking at the arabic and the whole site colored green. I thought the site was hacked or something…………

    • My dear sisters/brothers

      I also want to do Tauba because I assumed Great Mohamad had married & did sex with little girl having age 9 years . I do Tauba for my misconception regarding great Mohamad. I know Allah will forgive me. Thank You Satyagni Ji for the Fatwa. Rest Allah knows the best.

      • Brother Truth Seeker

        Its not at all your fault. Blame to denigrate Muhammad goes to fake Muslims and fake Quran-Hadith that allege him to be polygamous, slave trader, indulged in sex slavery, pedophile, killer and what not 🙁 . So you should continue exposing false Quran/Hadith/Muhammad in front of false Muslims and establish true Quran (Vedas)/Hadith/Muhammad in order to make everyone a True Muslim (Vedic follower)!

        And Allah is most gracious most merciful! And Allah knows the best!

    • Brother Apollo! That adds to harmless fun! After all we are not against any symbols or idols or icons. We are simply against intolerance, hatred and fanaticism. And what better way to fight these than with some benevolent fun and blessings for all! Ameen.

      • @Satyagni Ji Namaste

        If you publish Important Fatwas in form of a Article also, I think it will be much better for all truth seekers to know/understand about real Islam which is based on truth, brotherhood, non-violence, Purity, Contentment, equality between genders, Dedication to All Supreme, devoid of rituals/superstitions & removing their misconception regarding legends/superstitions have taken place in mind of many by mis-propaganda of some Kafir like Jakir Naik/Osama/Kasab/Aurangjeb/Babur/Daud etc.

  24. Fatwa and Tauba sections are absolutely rocking. Great job satyagni. U guys have taken things to a whole new level with this innovation.

  25. All Right, seems from debate it has gone to new level where ppl are making fun of both religions, debating is ok but making fun ???? as long as i know both religions dont give permission for this, so atleast respect our own religion and this goes to both.
    Well, i am curious about certain issues hope you all will help me to make me understand better.

    So,how many of you claim that you know and keep entire knowedge of Hinduism? know this religion by heart ad follow it in day today’s life?

      • @ Vajra,
        at the top of ths post it says Islam and Hinduism debate n thn all postingss appear. So if u r posting a comment like which debate, i thnik u urself dnt knw why u r posting.

      • @imran

        It means you have not read the article you are commenting. 🙁 Please do the needful and then you can understand what I meant!

      • @ vajra

        i read it, dnt say it debate betwn Islam and Hinduism if u gonna limit it to certain topics, coz it dont cover entire Islam and Hinduism. Change it to debate btwn Islam and Hinduism on certain topics.

    • @imran:

      Hinduism is vast, vaST and VAST!!!

      know this religion by heart ad follow it in day today’s life?

      Our religion is not something that we have to learn by heart. Those were during our 4th or 5th standard class when we had to learn by heart some poems (without understanding their meaning) and recite it in front of the whole school in general assembly or something of that sort.

      In any case, Hinduism does not have something like say the very clear instructions about how to deal with homosexuals or apostates, etc. It is highly philosophical. It is an attitude. Attitude develops after contemplation, not learning and simply reciting the same verses over and over again.

      Do pose your questions and some of us may be able to provide an answer. If we cannot it will probably make us think and lead us to delve into our vast, vaST, VAST scriptures to see how our ancients answered such questions.

      • @kalbhairav
        how vast it is? And if it is tht vast and philosophical do u want to say in other words u urself dnt knw wht xcatly it is? or u mst say thn tht u know its entire vastness or u still learning which anyway means u dnt it completly and ur knowldge is limited abt ur own religion.shall i say then u urself dnt knw it completly and not confident about ur religion?
        So u think Hinduism is attitude dats it? its ur defination of hinduism..Only attititude huh…vast dnt fit with word attitude and attitude is philosophical too. My simple question ws abt following hinduism u didn ans tht rather u said ther is no clear guidence abt homosexuals etc. i didnt ask abt homosecual etc,thts nt ans of my question.

      • @imran

        Are you among those Kafirs who believe in killing of apostates? Ya Allah please give hidayah to such ignorant who are heading towards hell by giving bad name to Islam and portraying it as intolerant and terrorist cult.

        And say Truth has arrived and falsehood perished for falsehood is bound to perish. [Quran]

        Allah knows the best!

      • @ Atish
        Whats wrong with you? i am asking few questions. My question is totally different from whatever you have answered. Better you read my questions first and then post a reply. If you dont understand what my questions are then do not post answers which are not related to my questions.

      • @imran

        Brother there is no benefit debating with Kaffirs but time waste. They think great prophet was a pedophilia & a Lustful person who did sex sex with 9 years old girl & with his daughter. Brother they tried to prove Great prophet made the women sex slaves, attacked on of idolaters, & did sex with their wives. Brother they think Allah is too cruel that sends his children in eternal hell for limited bad deeds & there was no creation before this creation & Allah was sited idly on his throne before this creation. How low thinking they have. Brother pray to Allah for giving wisdom to these blind believer. They are possessed by the Satan to even think of this. Brother they are taking seriously fake stories of Kuran & Hadis which are corrupted of Satan. For their kind information I would like to remind them once again great prophet never did sex with a child & his daughter in law. & Allah was never sited idly & process of universe creation/ destruction eternal. Allah never give infinite punishment for finite deeds to his children. Allah only punish for betterment of children as parents punish their children . Allah is most merciful, Most intelligent.
        And Allah knows the best. Bismillah Rahamanur Rahimi. “

      • @imran:

        For starters, Hindu philosophy, out of which our practical Hindu religion has evolved, has 6 darshanas or schools of thought or insight. All of them take the Vedas to be axiomatic. No, I do not know the intricacies of all these schools of thought. My knowledge is somewhat limited to the Vedanta darshana.

        What is this, some sort of a Q&A? In this internet age, when information is so easily available, do some basic research on Hinduism (read articles on Agniveer, Satyagni, etc.). I am not here to answer Hinduism 101 questions to you if you are not going to do some legwork of your own.

        If you are still wondering, no practitioner of any of the 6 darshanas believes non-believers in that darshana are hell bound. I know it is difficult for your Abrahamic mind to understand this, but thats the way it is. And yes, Hindu philosophy is quite superior to ANY thought process that originated in Bethlehem or Mecca. You can book this!

      • ok, so by saying ths u urself accept tht u dnt keep entire knowldge good. N yes its Q n A why nt? I wonder u give d name debate n thn say is it q and a? So from hindu philosophy hindu religion evolved took so much time to figure ds ans anyway, so philosophy and religion is one or different? And i am here to understand thngs clear my doubts, from ur venom tht Abrahmic mind it seems u already created certain image of any one specialy frm diff religion who seek to understand hinduism if lyk tht u gonna treat d debate u r not gonna b fair nor u can give complte info abt ur religion.yes can ckeck on internet but evry site is provides diff views, so dnt wanna get confused. Still my 2nd question’s is pending. Seems u need more tme like u took to ans 1st one, vl wait for d ans till thn c ya

      • @kalbhairav
        And remeber u said u dnt hve complete knowldge of 1 darshana, and i doublt if any1 else here has it, so still with ths liimited knowldge and being illitrate abut other 5 darshnas you are debating wht other religions are n speak like u knw other religions better thn urs. Where u urs elf is only knw abcd of ur own religion n still cant count till Z. How much time 1 person need to learn 1 darshana?

      • When jokers like ZN can speak ill of our religion, hinduism, without knowing the alpha and omega of it, then why do you impose any such restrictions on us? Or are you one of those morons who thinks ZN knows everything?

      • hah, he didn’t got guts to oppose him. Typical muslim mindset, “We are the best”.

        imran, may be we don’t know everything about our religion. but we know that our religion do not sanction killing of apostates, polygamy, pedophilia, incest etc etc. which are gems of your religion.

      • @ imran
        let me be polite to be a bit different
        first of all it is not about attitude its about knowledge because no one in this world can have bharam gyan (complete knowledge) if docters have complete knowledge about medicines then why do people die of diseases so if you have any one who have complete knowledge about islam make him answer the questions of ours from your own book. or keep shut about our knowledge and still if you wonder things, can pose us questions

  26. @ kalbhairav

    ok hinduism is vast, it means u urself is nt completly keep entire knowldge due to its vastness, so ur knowldge is limited. U said hinduism is attitude, is this is ur defination of religion n again for a religion lyk hinduism which u urself said is vast vast vast, jst an attitude huh….dats it? U say its philosophical too, attitude and philosophical ??? Ok.
    My other simple question ws nt abt homosexuals etc nor i asked about ur knowldge abt wht other religions views. i asked about following hinduism in ur day todays life. U didnt ans tht at all. I asked about hinduism so stick to it dont divert the subject by answerng wht other religions offering.

    • Salam Brother Imran

      You should do Tauba for you did Shirk. You mean to say that you have ENTIRE knowledge of Islam Nauzubillah and you know everything of Islam? But Allah says in Quran that no human can have all knowledge. All knowing is the trait of Allah (SWT) alone and not of humans.

      So repent before it is too late. Fear hell that is waiting for those who think they are all knowing and insult Allah..

      • did u read it? Its all goes in circle. For example, Veda says Ishwar is 1 conforms Allah is 1, it makes Ishwar = Allah,
        thn comes devtas now it says no devtas can b ishwar but ishwar can b any devata, thn devtas devta is mahdev which is Ishwar, so Mahadev =ishwar=Allah? Now mahesha is name of mahadev n here i am not making fun or hindu religion dont take me wrong but i said i had doubts and seek ans. So r u talking about Mahadev, as in 3 major devtas Bramha, Vishnu and mahesha/mahadev? Mahadev is Ishwar is it so?
        Or mahesha and Mahadev and Ishwar are diff? Thn it said its ok to worship devtas. Alright, if Ishwar is above all Devas thn ppl shud worship this orignal higest source as well, so ppl shud worship Ishwar who is 1 or is it said Its ok if u dnt worship Ishwar if u worship devas? N wht devtas role? Devtas hav sme limits bt Ishwar is capable doing anythng. Then who created Devtas?

      • Divinity is not the birth right of a chosen few as in the case of islam (muhammad) or christianity (jesus). It is the rightful claim of everyone and everything, and that is the underlying philosophy of hinduism. As Vivekananda has rightly said, “Each soul is potentially divine.” Maheshwar is not Ishwar, but he can raise his level of consciousness to that of the ishwar by surrendering his individual identity and merging with the universal one. The same goes for devatas, asuras, manushyas, and even pashus (but unfortunately they are not endowed with such intellect).

        Also, ishwar is not like allah who only resides in the 7th heaven, ishwar is omnipresent, he/she/it is present everywhere and in everything, the pleasant ones and the unpleasant ones because he/she/it is not bound by anything, it is boundless, limitless, and all-pervading.

      • @ Sdc
        i lyked d way u try to ans mst of d tme to d point, wht prob wth evry1 here is u ppl always need to gv xmple of other religions 1st to prove urs dats shameful. Jst luk ds frm point of view m a blank slate dnt write on it considring there ws smethng already written, it bcomes mre confusing. Let me remain blank slate rather thn gettgn blurrd.
        N still my few qs went unansd wht is d role of devatas? Who created thm? Whch veda confrms the role n creater of devtas? Who is Bramha,Vishnu and Mahesha? Whts their role? N if we remove 7th sky frm ur sentence Ishwar bcmes Allah, basics of islam says Allah is one, basics of vedas confirms Ishwar is 1. If Islam worship Allah it worship one any only 1 god /creater/almighty. Sticking to basics.
        Wht abt hinduism? Where is basic of 1 almighy? N if there how many following it.

      • @Imran

        Vishnu, Mahesh, and Brahma are just different names of the same ONE ISHWAR. Each name denotes different qualities of Ishwar. Devtas are made for us, hence, its anything we benefit from.

        “Wht abt hinduism? Where is basic of 1 almighy? N if there how many following it.”

        Arya Samaj people are following this truth. Unlike fanatic muslims they do not curse everyone else to eternal hell.

        “1. If Islam worship Allah it worship one any only 1 god /creater/almighty. Sticking to basics.”

        No, Islam claims its people to worshippers of one God, but they also have to believe in Mohammad, so this is shirk. Now, islam contradicts on its own, on one side it says one has to believe in Allah only, on the other side it says if you do not believe in Mohammad being the last messenger, then you are sentenced to eternal hell.

        Now, you tell me, can I go to heaven in believing in Allah alone without believing in Mohammad???

      • @ sdc and shravk,
        Didnt read ur coments abt ZN, if he is joker n doing all nonsense n as u r sayng if he cn why nt we? So whts d diff btw u ppl n him? U also bcme ZN n so jokers in ur own eyes. U ppl dnt hav ur own identity no wonder i found so many fake names n avtars here. All r tryng to hide bhind masks.

      • @ vik

        beliving and worshiping both hve diff meaning. N why Ishwar need need diff names to denote his diff qualities? Amusing, when its mention dat Ishwar has alll d qualities n he is uniq lyk hmslf, dats y there is diff btwn devtas and Ishwar thn why he need diff names to denote his qualities, n my qstn is still un ansd where it is writtn in vedas who created devatas? If Ishwar alone is enuf as he has all qualities n few ppl here says he is in evrythng thn no need of benifiting frm devas coz Ishwar cn any way benifit wht devas can n Ishwar cn also benifit wht devatas cnt? Devtas looks like borrrowers frm Ishwara.

      • @Imran

        For example, if I believe in another God other than Allah, I am committing shirk as per islam. This is why the first part of the kalima is that THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, now this means all my belief is towards Allah and hence I should not believe in anything further. NOw, when you tell me to believe in Mohammad as the last messenger, this is SHIRK for meee since I only want to believe in Allah and NOBODY ELSE. Now, if I only believe in Allah and not Mohammad, I will sent to eternal hell, then where is the concept of believing in ONE GOD?? Mohammad and Allah are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES, I can only believe in ONE of them, not both, otherwise its shirk. It doesnt matter about worship, that is later, first we have to sort out the belief issue, should I believe in Allah or Mohammad, you tell me??????????????? I am sorry, I cannot believe in both.

        Just like how Allah has 99 names, similarly Ishwar has many names, so why this objections????

        Devi Devtas are not the popular statues of hinduism you see today. As per Vedas, there are 33 devi devtas.

        12 of them are months of the years, and 8 of them consist of water, fire, air, earth, etc. Later on these non living entites were personified into human statues and pictures symbolically.

        We are suppose to respect our devtas. The living devtas are 5, (mother, father, spouse, teacher, mentor), we are not suppose to worship them but benefit from them. I hope its clear now.

      • Okay, you have asked very pertinent questions. I would like to answer them as I understand them. “Ekoaham dwitiyam nasti” I am one and there is no one else besides me alone. Again, “Ekoaham bahusyama prajayet” I am one let me be many. The one and only paramatma wished to be many and this is how the entire universe was created. We all come from the same source, and that is why enlightened souls have propagated the idea of “basudhaiva kutumbakam” the whole world (universe) is one big family because it came into being from one eternal source. There is no question of multiple “paramatmas” in hinduism.

        Coming to the calling of names, if you have visited sites like IH or TOH, you will find that they all sorts of profanities to deride us, why not pay some back in their own coins?

    • u asked about following hinduism in day to day life…this is something amazing that u asked coz we humans have this need to follow something or the other or line our actions along this or that ideas,philosophies…especially islamists becos u have been trained to follow like a sheep all ur life…my answer to u would be to free urself from all ur earlier learnings,borrowed thoughts,stolen or mugged up philosophy,any pre-concieved notion,any hereditary or passed down theosophy and then start afresh like a wiped slate with something what u thereafter feel u are…but remember this cleansing needs some time…and after all that is done u will follow what hinduism calls SWADHARMA or self-religion of which u are the prophet as well as the follower…living on that platform is called day to day hinduism.

      • @ sorab
        so in other words nthng is offered in hindusim or u failed to xplain. Dnt tell me wht other religion offers or whts their threy mugged up,borrowd etc. Whts urs? N whts ds u r ur prophet n follower, tht means i can folow anythng wht i thnk is corect where u vl do wht u thnk is corect’ wht if we both thnk is xactly opposite? B a lay man few ppl dnt knw wht vedas are forgt abt other religion evn nt all hindus knw wht it is’ so undrstndng it is a diff issue at all, for layman he wnt undrstnd a thng wht u r talking abt? Or suppose a u hv a baby n tme has cme to teach hm wht hinduism is wht u vl teach read vedas n follow whtevr? Or point figners towrds other religion who offer smethng. N say its borrowd,stealed, lied, mugged up?
        Evry1 here whn i ask a certain question abt hindusim, cmes up wth an ans pointing fingers wht other religions are sayng, nobdy till today cme up wth an ans where thy are talking to d pont abt my question and hindusim. I feel pitty for u guys. Who need to point fingers towrds other religions whn askd abt theirs.

      • u seem to have no clear idea what u want to ask,it seem like u are a very hyper guy…you want to know what hinduism offers day to day but then u just want to glorify islam…anyway i gave u the answer considering u to be a sincere inquirer but u just want to check things with ur 2ft islamic stick…it also seems like u did not get a single word of my mail which makes u a layman…i never said anything about other religion…us see islam and other abrahamic religions are quite elementary in their essence so to say kindergarten religions becos they teach u to FOLLOW SOMEBODY until u become wise enough to follow urself…now since u like the idea of cattle grazing i have no problem but why are u asking others to join ur herd…u must check animal planet sometimes and see the herd of wild buffaloes and see how they move and think urself to be one from them…anyway if u say that hinduism has nothing to offer kindly tell me what islam has to offer and save me from hellfire,please…and please,please,please check ur facts its not we people but you people who starts pointing fingers at others’ religion when asked about islam…

      • question for question is nt d ans. U 1nce again failed to make a lay man understnd wht hinduism offers to a humanbeing. And even krishna liked cattle grazing. Whn sme 1 ask whts ur religion y u start pointng finglers to other religion n say dats nt we do, we offer, we say. Its lyk if m asking wht urcompny’s product offers u r sayng seee these r other 3 compnies we dnt offer wwht thy do. Bt still u fail to tell wht is urs.
        Whn askd wht hinduism offeer u shud simply tell wht it offers rather thn pointin fingers to other religion dta thy borrowd,thy steald, ths is their philosophy. Best ans wud b dat whn without bringin any other religion u plainly tell urs. Hinduism shd nt need to point fingers to other religions to gloryfy itself. U urself dnt knw d ans so best way is point finger to others is it so

      • @imran

        ____—-Whn askd wht hinduism offeer u shud simply tell wht it offers_________

        1. Veda preach God is one & all-powerful does not require help of any prophet to maintain his creation.
        2. Veda preach we should not worship any human or recited humans name in God’s prayer.
        3. Veda preach we should not bow head before any stone, & God is omnipresent, you need not to follow rituals, God is everywhere.
        4. Veda preach we should not kill any innocent, who is not doing harm of anyone. If some ignorance/superstitions like bowing head before any stone like Kaba, or any other idol have taken place in society need to be removed through spread of Veda knowledge, not by killing them.
        5.Veda preach we should not kill beneficial animals like cow, Bull, goat, buffalo, dog etc for tongue test.
        6. Veda preach incest is a greatest sin we should not sex with our sisters. But unfortunately fake Islam is promoting concept of sex with sister by supporting fake stories of Aadam & Eve.
        7. Veda preach Allah creates thousand of men & women in the inception of universe, does not force anyone for incest.
        8. Veda preach Allah knowledge is eternal & perfect, there is no change in his knowledge. Allah never sends different scripture.
        9. Veda preach you do not go on 7th sky in search of Allah like fool Mohamad, but Allah is within you. By meditation/Yoga you can realize him. kabir Das also says: Moko Kaha Dunde Bande, Mai to tere pass mai.(Where are u searching me, I am within you.)
        10. Veda preach process of universe creation/destruction eternal There are many universe creation have taken place before this creation. Allah never sited idly as Kuran says Allah was sited idly before this universe creation & he suddenly got the idea of universe creation.
        11. Veda Preach there is no eternal hell or heaven. Because result of limited/finite deed can not be infinite.
        12. Veda preach God is impartial & just. He gives you birth as per your previous birth deeds.
        13. Veda preach whenever you realize God/achieved God, there remains nothing to be achieved. God himself all bliss full. No requirement of heaven’s hoors to get enjoyment. Vedic God never depends on hoors to give enjoyment to his devotee.
        14. Veda preach we should not sex with children like fool Mohamad, this is greatest sin of mankind. There is a death sentence for this heinous crime. Fortunately Mohmad was not borne in Vedic period.
        15. Veda preach we should have the same feeling for the others as we think for ourselves. suppose If I expect faithfulness/loyalty from wife, I also should not have a lustful look towards other women but feeling of sisters for them.

        There are many but first you read these 6 article on Vedic God
        http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/

        & you tell me why do you support incest, pedophilia, polygamy, idolatry, women sex slavery, etc.

      • hehehe…its really funny to see u misinterpreting my implication of “cattle grazing” as krishna’s cattle grazing…please read the post once more to get what i meant…anyway i know that u are just a senseless robot with some inbuilt software,no identity,no individuality,no thought of ur own,ur only a muslim, all muslims tuned to same frequency,all entering mosque at the same time,all wearing cap,all wearing same clothes viz. kurta payjama, all sporting beard,all eating meat,all hating pig,all hating alcohol,all loving more and more sex,mostly uneducated,etc…dont u see the progression as if some kind of robotic software hehehe…now even if i go on to explain what does hinduism offers u will never understand becos ur designed not to understand higher things beyond ur software’s capacity…so to start a conversation with a layman,which u surely are,i must admit that i dont know hinduism but i would like to know what is islam..so please enlighten me/save me…also we all know that as per that software u will get heaven if i convert to islam…so please

  27. Dear Satyagni,
    A wonderful article indeed. But, let me point out to you that, Muslims are not so dumb also, when they make such illogical and irrational arguments. This is because they are systematically taught how to debate with Hindus and Infidels in general. I have found this great article related to this on the net, written by a Muslim women named Ayesha Ahmed. Please do read it and reference it and publish it, for it will reveal the true mentality of Muslims that come up to debate on public forums and elsewhere:

    Satire: HOW TO DEBATE AND FRUSTRATE INFIDELS
    By Ayesha Ahmed

    http://www.islamreview.com/articles/howtodebate.shtml

    The full article here:

    Dear brothers and sisters in islam:

    We live in kuffar country and daily we have to face the infidels who criticize Islam and our prophet, and who want to debate us. In an Islamic country if some one did that all we have to do is to announce loudly what he said and the rest is taken care of by an angry mob. The critic is lynched in no time. End of the story. However here we don’t have that luxury as yet. Inshallah in forseeble future after we grow by conversions of morons and criminals in prisons, legal and illegal immigration and procreation we will, inshallah, become a majority and will not have to face this problem on daily basis. However, for the time being following is an approach all Muslim brothers and sisters can use when faced with such a pest. Jazakallah Khair. Inshallah the vermin will steer clear of you in future.

    1. A popular question is “why Islam calls for death of Islamic critics and apostates”. Insist that their info is false. Quote aya “to you your religion and to me my religion”.
    2. To answer “Islam spread with sword”, say that it is a big lie spread by the right wing Christians, neo con jews and faithless hindus and that Quran clearly says ” there is no compulsion in religion”.
    3. If the Bin Laden’s jihad Fatwa of 1998 is quoted which orders mulim umma “to kill americans wherever they are found” which was also signed by top islamic clerics , say that those so called muslims /clerics have hijacked peaceful religion of islam and quote a part of aya 5.32 ” killing one innocent is like killing the whole humanity”.
    4. If in response some one quotesall the violent ayas from Koran, accuse him of quoting ayas in bits and pieces and cherry picking .
    5. If he then quotes full ayas and ayas before and after, than insist that the translation is wrong.
    6. If he brings ten different translations than say correct meanings can be understood only by reading Quran in Arabic.
    7. If he happens to be well versed in Arabic language than insist that those ayas don’t mean what they appear to mean as they have allegorical meanings.
    8. If he is adamant, than say you cannot understand those ayas without reading the context from hadiths and siras.
    9. If he shows up with the hadiths and siras in hand and quotes the context of the violent ayas by referring to hadiths of prophet’s rapes, robberies , assassinations and genocides then insist that “all hadiths and siras are heresay and are false, and only truth is in quran.
    10. If they ask why you are doubting the history chrinicled by muslim scholars like imam Tabari , Ishaq and Bukhari, then tell them they were actually jews guise of as muslims.
    11. If he says Quran is a man made book and wants proof of it’s divinity then refer to the sciences in Quran and the book written by Dr. Bucaile confirming the sciences in our holy book. You can also quote that Mahatama Gandhi read Quran daily and also spoke highly of it.
    12. If he says that Bucaile was on Saudi payroll and that nor he nor Gandhi ever changed their religions and that Bucaile was challenged and proven wrong by many experts then challenge him to ask his experts to debate islamists like Zakir Naik..
    13. If the pests still hangs around then change the topic and find faults in other religions and their books.
    14. If he continues on then use personal attacks and insult him by calling him a racist crusader, jewish a- hole , a Chinese pig or a hindu dog .
    15. If that does not frustrate him, then ask him how much he is being paid by jews to throw dirt on Al Islam.
    16. If he still does not stop then run for his mother and sister and use very filthy language.
    17. If he is very stubborn and wants to continue, then curse him like “Burn in hell, you will repent on last day, Allah will get you in your grave” etc
    18. When all of the above has failed, threaten him with bodily harm and end the debate by drum beating and announcing that you won the debate hands down because Koran is the word of allah.
    19. Definitely anounce about this debate victory in as many as possible popular islamist websites saying you had won it handily. Such announcements do wonders for the iman of muslim umma and for dawah operations in prisons to convince low IQ prisoners of the truth of Al Islam.

  28. @tTo All Kaffirs

    I am reminding to all kaffirs if they really want their welfare must remember always these facts regarding my beloved prophet Mohamad before posting comments here:-

    1. My beloved prophet Mohamad never did sex with any child rather than he adopted Aisa as a daughter. He had given us massege we should protect the orphan children & should bring them up as our real children.
    2. My dear prophet Mohamad never thought of doing sex with another woman. If he treated someone as a daughter as his daughter in law (Juned), How could his think doing sex with his daughter. He was the man of word. He had given us massage we should treate our daughter in law as our real daughter. There is no difference between daughter in law & daughter.
    3. My dear prophet never married with many women & he married only one & in his whole life he treated all the woman as sisters & mother feeling. He was not a lustful person but he was the symbol of celibacy. In his married life also if he did sex with his wife just for children desire not for enjoyment.
    4. There are many great work dear prophet did in life life span, as he had taken care of widows as his sisters & try to arranged their marriage with widower (whose wife got to death).
    5. Mohmad never made any woman slaves or sex slaves, these were those women whom husband were got to death in country’s wars. Mohmad protected these woman & As brother protects his sister. Then what problem you have!

    By seeing his remarkable deed many people of Arab claimed he had done great work for the society as their is saying breaking the moon( for the doing great deed). As lover says to his beloved If you say I can bring the moon for you. That means I will do everything for you.. Breaking moon just a proverb(saying). Mohamad also did many noble work for humankind. Mohamad was a yogi, Yogi who always attached with God as there were many Yogeshwar happened like kapila, Patanjali, Krishna etc.& Ved appears in the heart of Yogi automatically. You also can be yogi/yogeshwar/prophet like Mohamad by doing noble deed consistently. Mohmad had given us message aim of life is to be yogi/Rishi/Brahman/prophet ( who Realizes the God).

  29. ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONTRADICTION IN QURAN IS THAT IT STATES IT IS PURELY ARABIC IN NATURE BUT THE WORD “SURAH” ITSELF IS NON-ARABIC SYRIAN WORD.

    It was said that the quran was written is a clear Arabic tongue.

    “We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran” Joseph chapter (Surat Yusuf) 2

    Actually there are 9 quran verses saying that the quran was written is a clear Arabic
    tongue.

    As in the chapters of: Joseph (Surat Yusuf), Ta-Ha (Surat Ta-Ha), the bees (Surat An-Nahl), The Poets (Surat Ash-Shu’ara’), distinguished (Surat Fussilat), Consultation (Surat Ash-Shura), The Gold Adornments (Surat Az-Zukhruf), The Curved Sand-hills (Surat Al-Ahqaf) and The Groups, (Surat Az-Zumar) All The annotators are saying that “a clear Arabic tongue” means the most fluent Arabic tongue

    It was found that the quran contained 275 non-Arabic words, intruded into the quran from
    foreign languages present at that time.

    The Islamic encyclopedia, part 26, and page 8222, 8223 said:” the annotators found no
    embarrassment to commit that there are many non- Arabic words intruded into the quran
    text from languages as: Hebrew, Indian, Persian, Ethiopian, Barbarian, Romanian, Coptic,
    Greek, and Syrian”

    In “the relic” book narrated Ibn Abbas:” they were showing a great interest in the origin
    of those words and their meanings”

    Al-Syouty, in his book “the perfection in quran’ sciences” wrote a special chapter for
    those big number of foreign non-Arabic words saying that there are 275 non Arabic
    words in the quran, and those words can’t be connected by any mean to the Arabic
    language.

    Al- Motawakely also made a special study on those words.

    Another study was made by Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Ibiary in his book “history making of the
    quran” Ta’rikh Al-Quran” published in Cairo in 1981 by the house of Arabic book
    Of these words:

    – “Tafaq’a ” is a Romanian word means” intended to do”, as in The Heights chapter
    (Surat Al-A’raf) 22.
    – “Al-toar “is a Syrian word means “the mountain”, as in the Cow chapter (Surat Al-
    Baqarah) 63.
    – “Al-Raq’im ” is a Romanian word means “the tablet” as in The Cave chapter (Surat Al-
    Kahf) 9
    – “Ta-Ha ” is a Hebrew word as in Ta-Ha chapter
    -” Senin “is a Hebrew word means “beautiful”
    -“As-Sijjîl ” is a Persian word means “the book” as in the Prophets chapter (Surat Al-
    Anbiya’) 104.
    – “Al-Istabrek “is a Persian word means “the thick” as in The Smoke chapter (Surat Ad-
    Dukhan) 53.
    – ” Al-Soundos ” is an Indian word means” the thin curtain” as in The Smoke chapter
    (Surat Ad-Dukhan) 53
    – ” Sariah” is a Greek word means ” a small river” as in Mary chapter (Surat Maryam) 24
    – ” Meshkat ” is an Ethiopian word means ” a niche in the wall” as in the light
    chapter(Surat An-Nur)
    – “Jouhan’m ” is a Hebrew word means ” the hell” as in the Spoils of War(Surat Al-
    Anfal) 36
    – ” Al-Zakât ” is a Hebrew word means ” the tax from money”
    – ” Sajjîl ” is a Persian word means “the stony mud”
    – ” Ad-Durie ” is an Ethiopian word means ” a shinning planet”
    -” Nashet-Al lail ” is an Ethiopian word means ” wake up by night” as in The One
    wrapped in Garments chapter (Surat Al-Muzzammil) 6
    – ‘ keflain ” is an Ethiopian word means ” two folds” as the iron chapter (Surat Al-Hadid)
    28
    – ” Al-Q’swara ” is an Ethiopian word means ” the lion” as in The One Enveloped
    chapter (Surat Al-Muddathir) 51
    – ” Al-Melah Al-Okhra ” is a Coptic word means “the first religion” as in Saad chapter
    ( Surat saad) 7
    – ‘ Wara’hom ” is a Coptic word means “behind them ” as in The Cave chapter (Surat Al-
    Kahf)
    -‘ Bata’nha ” is a Coptic word means ” its external look” as in The Most Gracious
    chapter(Surat Ar-Rahman) 54
    – ” Uho’d ” is a Hebrew word means ” one ”
    -” As-Sam’d ” is a Hebrew word means” inclusive of all characters”
    -” Abareeq’ ” is a Persian word means “vessels” as in The Event chapter (Surat Al-
    Waqi’ah) 18
    -‘ Injeel ” is a Greek words means ” annunciation”
    – ” Tabout ‘ is a Coptic word means ” a box ”
    -” Saradeq’ ” is a Persian word means ” a tent”
    – “SURAH ” is a Syrian word means ” a book chapter ”
    – ” Al-Ferdous ” is a Persian word means ” the garden”
    – ‘ At-Taghout ” is an Ethiopian word means ” the opposites”
    -‘ Mao’un ” is a Hebrew word means ” the pot”.

    Those are only few examples of the non-Arabic foreign words included in the quran,
    So is it truly a clear Arabic tongue?

  30. @imran:

    So, your position is that because I do not know the entirety of my religion, I am unqualified to make any comments about it or other religions, yes?

    This is flawed at so many levels:

    (a)In an economic department, there are bound to be professors who specialize in macroeconomics and are still capable of making an educated comment on certain microeconomics issues. It is stupid to say that only those with a PhD in microeconomics are qualified to comment on it.
    (b)If you are beginning to do research, in say, quantum physics, it is equally stupid to say that first you ought to know A to Z of quantum physics. Firstly, not many people have the time to know everything in that area. Secondly, if you wait until you know everything before doing some original work/research, you will remain in grad school and will probably be attending school along with your grandchildren!
    (c)It is said that when playing badminton/table tennis, your game will improve only if you play with a better opponent. The only thing that you need to worry about is if I know more about Hinduism than you. This is quite true.
    (d)The patrons of this website probably know more about Islam than you. Sorry about that. If you have any doubts look at the Fatwa section where many authentic fatwas have been issued. This is indeed true Islam as Allah wished. Those following the current trend of Islam prevalent in Muslim countries, they are doing shirk. Do Tauba immediately. There is a link provided also for Tauba.

    Ameen!

    • @ kalbhairav
      ur xample of microeconomics itself prove my point wht u said can comment on crtain topics? Thts wht me talking abt men. Lets makt it mre simple a 10 th std student can solve few problems of 1st year engg. But cnt solve all of thm or cant solve a single prob of last year engg. So lack of knwldge is issue in 1st xample itslf. U hav limited knwlge of 1 darshana wht if other 5 +1 leads to the basic of evry other religion?u dnt knw istnt it? And u said it attitude n philosophy but brother lyk sorab says its Swdharma, and any 1 cn start frm anywhere n follow any1. So u all urself are confused?

  31. एइसे ही लिखते रहिये ! तर्क और मूल्यों की शक्ति अपराजित ही रहेगी..

  32. How come Allah killed Muhammad? Quran said if Muhammad was lying Allah would cut his aorta and kill him. Then in most trusted hadith Bukhari when Muhammad died he said he felt his aorta was cut. Meaning Allah murdered Muahammad for lying, thus making him a false prophet by this sign?

    http://youtu.be/hlikOiMYHTI

  33. @Truth Seeker:

    Great response! Lets see what imran wants now. My guess…

    “but but but…why you nd 3 gds…shiv, vishn and brahm…poly3ism…8rnl hellfr 4 u mrns”

    • Muhammad prayed to the THREE goddesses of the moon god of his tribe when he was the prophet. He said that the 3 goddesses, Al-Lat, Uzza and Manat, were intercessors for Allah. So Muhammad committed polytheism when he was the prophet.

      http://youtu.be/29mCRzDeeBY

      So Muhammad said you can use these 3 goddesses to pray to Allah. It is an incident that today’s Muslims don’t want to talk about. So Muhammad believed in 3 goddesses when he was the prophet and prayed to them.

      • PROPHET MOHAMMAD WAS NOT AS MONOTHEIST AS A MUSLIMS LIKE TO BELIEVE these are shown in Sahih Hadiths, Mohammad used to kiss Hajre Aswad, which the pagan arabs considered to be the genitalia of Al-Uzza, and kissing it will give the sex powers of many human beings that is why Sahih Hadiths says that Mohammad had sex power of many men that itself says that Mohammad and his followers believed in this pagan superstition. KORAN WAS PLOY BY MOHAMMAD TO UNITE BOTH PAGAN AND MONOTHEIST ARABS AGAINST JEWS AND CHRISTIANS who otherwise would not care to sit with each other let alone fight together against Jews and Christians. Prophet Mohammad was pagan with monotheist touches that is why he said Al-Lat, Uzza and Manat were Daughters of Allah but when Monotheist Arabs became agitated and he retracted his statement and said that he was deceived by Satan.

        MUSLIMS STILL ARE PRACTICING MANY AL-UZZA RITUALS IN ISLAM LIKE: The Pagan Arabs used to keep Sabath in Friday for Al-Uzza, which Muslims also keep for Allah. Green symbolizes Al-Uzza, which is also the color of Islam. Star symbolizes Al-Uzza that is also an Islamic symbol, which is also shown with Crescent (Moon God), Kissing the Genitalia of Al-Uzza (Hajre Aswad) etc.

        SO PROPHET MOHAMMAD WAS NOT AS MONOTHEIST AS A MUSLIMS LIKE TO BELIEVE.

  34. @ Imran: Your question seems to have its moorings in West Asian “theisms.” Parking aside the practices of contemporary Hindus, Vedas are beyond theisms. They elicit a bi-directional premise, where the ONE, manifests in multiple ways and the multiples of ONE, roll back into ONE. Vedas assign names to this impersonal Supreme Truth and Vedas also points us to “TAD EKAM – THAT ONE”. God, in any language, from the stand point of God becomes a personal name or when God is given multiple names in any language or faith, they are merely indicative of some facet of God. Vedas take the impersonal nature of God to a completely different level and say TAD EKAM – THAT ONE.

    The basic precept of Vedas are the realization of the infinite TRUTH by overcoming the hurdles of ignorance. Vedas give a template to this arduous journey. And sacrifices in Vedas are symbolic of what ought to be done to attain the higher truth. Sacrificing what one has to obtain more spiritual riches is the way of Vedas. The cosmogony of RV itself is a place where God performs the Supreme sacrifice to manifest this world. And Vedas do not put a named God upfront and build a laundry list of do’s and don’ts. The Sun, earth, moon etc etc are the visible symbolic outreach of the impersonal ONE into TIME and SPACE, while the ONE is actually beyond TIME and SPACE, in Vedas.

    • @Apolloreach Namsate Brother
      _________The cosmogony of RV itself is a place where God performs the Supreme sacrifice to manifest this world____________
      I think your this quote based on this verse of Veda.

      अ॒ग्निनमी॑ळे पु॒रोहि॑तं यज्ञ॒स्य॑ दे॒वम्रत्विज॑म्। होता॑रं रत्न॒धात॑मम् ॥१॥ – ऋ० १।१।१
      1. Agni meede purohitam yajyasya deva-mrit-wijam Hotaaram ratna-dhaatamam – Rig Veda 1:1:6

      मैं (पुरोसितम्) सृष्टि-उत्पत्ति से पुर्व सृष्टि के मुलकारण परमाणु आदि को धारण करनेवाले (यज्ञस्य) सृष्टिरूपी यज्ञ के (देवम्)
      प्रकाश करने-वाले (ऋत्विजम्) बारम्बार उत्पत्ति के समय में स्थल सृष्टि का संहार करनेवाल (रत्नधातमम्) मनोसर पृथिवी
      और सुवर्ण आदि रत्नों को धारण करने और देनेवाले (अग्निम्) जगदीश्वर की (ईळ) स्तति और प्रार्थना करता हुँ।

      We praise Agni .We praise Him Who has been present even before this creation. He is the Glorious Lord of this Cosmic Sacrifice, and is worthy of our worship in all seasons. We praise Him Who is the Creator and Supreme Sustainer of all the jewel-like planets that decorate the cosmic Drama.
      [Agni:God possessed of Light. Cosmic Sacrifice:The universe is comparable to an eternal sacrifice, in which God is the Principal Priest.

      In all seasons:at all times. The Cosmic Drama:The Universe
      presents itself as a drama in which the sun, moon, planets, etc. are principal actors.]

      • @ Truth Seeker: The cosmogony of RV is elsewhere. But the verse you quote is the expression of the idea of Agni being “immortal” amongst men on earth. Agni, in Vedas, is the friend of man, the minister that oversees the sacrifice, the medium by which man’s prayers ascends to the ONE…Essentially RV looks at Agni as the earth based aspect of the Supreme Being. Agni, in Vedas represents the polymorphic reality of the sacrificial fire at the altar, the fire that burns in the Sun, the fire that burns in the heart of man, the same fire that softens the butter in the sacrifice but dries the herbs. Agni, the earth based symbol of Supreme Reality in Vedas, is also said to possess the Lordship that knows the first and the last words of the human mind.

        For a brief idea of cosmogony in RV, please refer to a post on Purusha Sukta in the discussion forum of Agniveer. I was responding to someone trashing the cosmogony of RV.

    • @Aadil:

      Actually some WNs (White Nationalists) are in awe of India/Hinduism. Some reasons are:

      (a)Misappropriation of the term “Aryan”. This derives from the now-debunked Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) according to which the caucasians from Central Asia/Europe were the original Aryans circa 2000 BC who came up with the Vedas. There is no evidence to point to this sort of invasion. The theory these days is about an OIT (out of India theory) according to which current Europeans/Central Asians, etc. originated from ancient India. Of course the WNs would be averse to accepting that theory because it will lead to disgust that their “pure genes” were not original but were something that originated outside of Europe.

      (b)It is quite true that Sanatana Dharma is the only religious culture that has pushed back against Islam/Christianity. So many native cultures around the world have been destroyed by Islam/Christianity. SD sticks out like a sore thumb for Commies/Muslis/Xian vultures for their failure to conquer them.

      (c)WNs have a hatred for Commies/Jews/Muslis because they feel their culture is in threat of being overrun by a cabal of non-Whites. They see Indian “Aryans” as a group that has managed to maintain their millenia old, nay, timeless/eternal culture without dilution.

      These are the reasons why WNs are in awe of Hinduism.

      You and others over at IH need to take a break. If possible try and return back to the timeless tradition of your ancestral faith.

    • so what’s the point Aadil?

      You mean he was inspired from Hindutva forces to kill innocents. Haha…you people…kabhi nahi sudhrenge.

    • Adil, given you guys always wish to look into the real reasons for Islamic terrorism, did you guys analyze what drove the man in Oslo to commit the mass murders? Please have a write up published on that too. If you have a problem with Oslo, you also need to have a problem with the thousands of attacks driven by dreams of a caliphate across the world. But instead of condemning them without ifs and buts you guys will hide behind dr.naik’s argument that 9/11 and other such non-sense.

  36. Agniveer is still ignorant about Islam as it said that it does not believe that Islam is a violent ideology. You are right that there is no point debating but as Ali Sina says we have to expose Islam therefore we should expose logical fallacy , discrimination against women and violence against non-Muslims because it would help muslims leave Islam. The other and perhaps most potent method he advocate is to mock it since you cannot debate with a narcissistic and illogical ideology, how would you debate about muhammad rendering the moon asunder and riding on the winged horse having the face of a man!

    • @puneet verma

      re read all the articles on this page, brother, we have exposed islam both logically and authentically. You do not need to be a scholar to expose islam, just simply apply logic to their various concepts and there, your mission is accomplished.

      • Yes I did not read the full article because of lack of time and article’s lengths. I know that I do not need to be scholar on Islam to expose it, one just need to follow any expert on it to know the basics and then apply one’s own logic or believe in others or if needed refine that. I mostly follow Ali Sina.

  37. Satyagni mahashay, I want to consult you about the meaning of the following verse about the Ashwamedh sacrifice from the Yajur Ved:-

    tau ubhau chaturah padah samprasarayava swarga
    lokam prasuvava vrshavaaji raghu rathau dadati

    The rough translation as stated by Apolloreach was as folows– we command the intelligent horse to enable us to reach out for heaven,where, the Lord provides us the chariots.

    He further elaborated that :- In the context of the preceding verses, the chariots become blessings. I gather that “blessings” were being personified by the chariot. What, then, was the intelligent horse personifying?

    Should we be taking the verse too literally in the complete context, which will start raising questions as to how one can reach heaven with a chariot/horse?

    • @Dharmvir My dear friend
      Where you find Ashwamedh sacrifice in said mantra of Yajurved:–

      tau ubhau chaturah padah samprasarayava swarga
      lokam prasuvava vrshavaaji raghu rathau dadati

      Yajurveda mantra 23/20 is that when relation between king and praja (public) is established as father and son, then only peace is maintained and Arth (finance), Dharma(righteousness), Kaam(fulfillment of pious desires) and Moksha(final liberation) is attained. So, the king, who is justiciable, must make effort to increase pleasure/happiness and enhance strength/power of public. Also, public should make efforts to increase the same in respect of king. Now, the idea of Yajurveda mantra 23/21 is that the king should do justice to men and women and the bad charactered or cruel man/woman must be punished badly (should be hung upside down) to obliterate the worm of sensuality along with root. You may be knowing that eternal knowledge of Vedas emanates direct from Almighty, formless God who creates, nurses and destroys the universe.
      For more details word by word please click on link
      http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/yajurveda/pages/p855.gif

      • Brother, thank you for the clarification!! Hey, the no. of the followers of “peace” has drastically fallen down!! ZN, the “peace doctor” and his bots have finally met their match!!

    • @ Dharmvir: Ashwamedha yajna in Vedas has a cosmogony angle to it. The sacrificial horse personifies this whole Universe. The idea behind Ashwamedha can be seen in Rig Veda 1/163. The detailed idea behind the horse is explained in chapter 1 of Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. While the motivation behind the sacrifice was for the welfare of a kingdom or for securing progeny etc, the conception of Ashwamedha is simply that this whole Universe (symbolized as a horse here) is a SACRIFICE. And horse in Vedas symbolizes movement / speed. The verses in BU reflect this where the Universal Horse moves and days and nights and time are formed around the moving Universal Horse.

      In the same spirit there, sacrifice has been to be some taboo by Western Indologists. But across the Vedas, sacrifice is a recurring theme. God performed the first ever sacrifice and the Universe was manifested (Brahmayajna – sacrifice of God), when Agni sacrifices itself, light, heat and energy are born ( rite of Agnihotra, sacrifice of fire), the ashwameda yajna and in the brahmamas, we come across the Haviryajna (immolation) and the sacrifice of man (Purusha yajna). Now these are not about killing a person or a horse (though the Brahmanas may allude to them).

      But these reflect the spirit of what is seen in the Kaustaki Brahmana – Light is Agni, Agni is light. Agni offers itself in sacrifice to the rising Sun and the setting Sun offers itself in sacrifice to Agni in the evening. Night sacrifices itself to the Day and Day sacrifices itself to the Night. So the Vedic sacrifices lead to a cyclic transformation continuously.

      • Brilliant answer, borther AR!! Such philosophy can only emerge from the Vedic/Sanatani thought!!

        The Western Indologists, utterly Christian in their outlook, could only conceptualize sacrifice as killing and murder of living beings, rather than the cyclical waxing ang waning of the universe and it’s components.

        Can’t blame them, their murderous Abrahamic creed indeed has it’s origins in the Proto-Judeaic/Semitic worship of the evil deity Moloch, who favoured child-sacrifices over anyhing else. and has been responsible for so much bloodshed, incl. the horrific Nazi attrocities, since its now proven that Hitler was no atheist; he actually was following in the blood-riddled footsteps of Catholicism to exterminate the Jews as that was supposed to be his rightful duty and in this noble endeavor he recd. the full support of the Pope of that time.

        “Sacrifice” can only mean “bloodshed” for them, nothing else. Of course, for their own teachings of Christ, the word “sacrifice” becomes an act of selflessness rather than an act of bloodshed.
        Talk about double standards!!

      • Dharmvir, thanks but the knowledge of the Upanishads and Vedas is there for everybody to be explored. So I am only a student of our scriptures. The problem with quite a few Indian Muslims / Indian Christians is that they would be more concerned about Dead Sea scrolls & manuscripts found in Taif or Yemen than what is to be found in our own backyard. The political system and the biased/paid historians continue to destroy native ethos of India.

  38. Can someone point me to the link on the DNA website or elsewhere that contains Subramaniam Swamy’s article? I hardly paid any attention to it. But given the kind of attention that Swamy is getting, he must have said something right.

  39. Ikna vakhat khuvai ahi ikhan pooja jayi Chadke vindu hindvandiyan kiyu tike kathi nayi Ramu na kabhu chetiyo hundi kahndi na mile khudai

    Loosely translated the above lines mean…

    Hindus have been forbidden to pray at the time of the Muslim namaz, Hindu society has been left without a bath, without a tilak. Even those who have never uttered “Ram”, even they can get no respite by shouting “Khuda, Khuda”.

    Can someone say who said the above? The answer will surprise many of us.

  41. In Islam 25% of the Higher caste Muslims (Ashraf) in India plundered the 85% Pasmanda or lower caste Muslims (Ajlaf, Low category of Muslims and Arzal, Marginalised or degraded Muslims). The Higher caste Muslims Ashraf never allowed to grow Pasmanda (lower caste) Muslims and cunningly blamed all their miseries on Hindus. They brainwashed them that in Hindu majority India they will never get development and all poverty of theirs were due to Hindus when in fact the higher caste Ashraf Muslims are responsible for their poverty because Ashraf Muslims are always afraid that they will lose power over Ajlaf and Arzal Muslims.

    SEE BELOW LINK A MUST READ FOR MUSLIMS AND NON MUSLIMS ALIKE:

    http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers47paper4622.html

  42. Reading Understanding Muhammad by Ali Sina. Everyone must read the book. Every page is so enlightening and makes me sick to my stomach. Screw political correctness and sensitivities of muhammadans, these guys have to be mentally bailed out of the disease called islam

      • Sujit das has done commendable service by providing the book free. The other book is by craig winn available free at this website “religionofpeace”. It is about 1000 pages book.
        The other good book is Biography of Muhammad by Robert Spencer. of these three books the one by Ali Sina(or sujit das since they both focus on his narcissist personality disorder) is the best.

  43. After a study of some forty years and more of the great religions of the world, I find none so perfect, none so scientific, none so philosophic, and none so spiritual as the great religion known by the name of Hinduism. The more you know it, the more you will love it; the more you try to understand it, the more deeply you will value it. Make no mistake; without Hinduism, India has no future. Hinduism is the soil into which India’s roots are struck, and torn of that she will inevitably wither, as a tree torn out from its place. Many are the religions and many are the races flourishing in India, but none of them stretches back into the far dawn of her past, nor are they necessary for her endurance as a nation. Everyone might pass away as they came and India would still remain. But let Hinduism vanish and what is she? A geographical expression of the past, a dim memory of a perished glory, her literature, her art, her monuments, all have Hindudom written across them. And if Hindus do not maintain Hinduism, who shall save it? If India’s own children do not cling to her faith, who shall guard it? India alone can save India, and India and Hinduism are one.
    –ANNIE BESANT

  44. @ shravak..

    I think ur totally crazy!!…. What prove do u really have that QURAN IS FULL OF JOKES>>? ( ASTAGHFIRULLAH)… hAVE YOU EVER READ IT..?.. or do u even understand what it says..?… I think you need to consult a doctor for sure..!!.. Dont worry u dont need to cry.. coz u cnt even understand a single word of it!..gt dat ur freak?..

    And dont open ur bloody mouth to speak a word against my RELIGION..gt dat..?

    If you want to continue this further go ahead..BUT DONNT FORGET TO GET ME A PROOF..!!

    • @ABC>Muslim

      Hey jackass, explore this site and you will know why your cult sucks and why your holy book is a load of crap.

      You got offended when i spoke against your cult. Just imagine how we feel when your book repeatedly curse us for not believing in ‘la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah’.

  45. Some of the typical Islamic responses to Indian Muslims having Hindu ancestry –

    1) The ancestors of all humans are the same. So why worry about whether Indian Muslims have Hindu ancestry or not?

    The above statement takes us to one of the premier lies on Adam and Eve and every human having originated from the mythical pair. But as Kal Bhairav recently indicated , Adam and Eve theory is now being dissed by Evangelicals themselves and also based on Mesopotomian and Sumerian myths the Bible just twisted the legend of Adam and Eve of the pagans and made Jehova a super God that created them.

    2) Some Ashrafis claim that Muslims like them do not have Hindu lineage and that they are not even Indians though they live in India.

    The above line is pretty deceptive as these guys also build stories that their forefathers came to Indian along with invading Arabs and settled down here. These guys can leave India if they do not feel that they are Indian and resettle in Arabia.

    3) The next bogus claim is that – yes our forefathers were Hindus but they left caste ridden Hinduism and embraced the light of Islam.

    Now, casteism is a bane on Hinduism and reflects the agenda of vested interests and we must destroy it. But the irony or suspended sense of intelligence means one of the two a) The shining light of Islam, in the form of the sword and rape forced the forefathers of those making the above claim, left them with no choice but embrace Islam or the forefathers fell for the deceptive actions of the sufis. If casteism was such a big deal, the peasants of Indo Gangetic plains would not have vanished into the forests to launch gureilla attacks against babars and timurs. It is recorded in the chronicles of both the barbarians. So the peasants that were Sudras did not really see any light but only bloodshed with the advent of Islam.

    3a) When someone points to the presence of sects in Islam, these guys retort that Shia or Sunni are not mentioned in the Quran but that the 4 varnas are mentioned in Vedas. Again ZN school of conditioning? But there is a hadith that talks about 73 sects of Islam, out of which, only one will be spared from the hell fire. This website http://www.real-islam.org/73_8.htm lists down the 70+ sects and also shows how the hadith is authentic. The confusion now is which sect is gonna fulfill the prophesy of the hadith.

    So much for the light of Islam? I am really curious, other than by force or by deception, the average Hindu 700 yrs ago would not have fallen for the idea of houris and eternal hell fire, the hell fire that toasts the skin but then the kafirs would be given fresh skin that continues to burn so that the pain is continually experienced. Again this is the light of Islam that was embraced by the brutalized or fooled forefathers of item 3 (seen above).

    Get a life guys….

  46. @ All : just found this discourse too beautiful to give it a miss. Courtesy: Apolloreach

    Why is cow such a revered animal in Hinduism? Parking aside the domestic uses of a cow, the mammal symbolizes Aditi of Vedas. The Mother cow that bestows all the good tidings to man and Aditi encompasses everything in her. She is the feminine principle of Prajapati. So this is the mapping that is in vogue today, where, cow is the symbol of Aditi of Vedas and Kamadenu of later day Puranas. I have quoted a few RV verses on Aditi in the past but if you wish I can do that again to drive home the point. The fact is that people do not worship cow (or idols for that matter) but the mammal is seen as a symbol of Aditi. Dude, do you think that Hindus think that an idol or a mammal is God, per se? Had they thought so, the destruction of Somnath temple by the invading armies from the deserts would have meant the symbolic end of the religion. If you cannot accept this, so be it.

    Shiva Linga: Shiva Linga is a phallus? Too much of Wendy Doniger can have this effect. Do you have even a remote idea of Rudra / Shiva in Vedas?? Again, given you are a “by the book” person, please do understand how Rudra is characterized in Rig Veda. Also, please understand how Shiva is symbolized in Rudram of Yajur Veda. To cut it short, Shiva enables the ascension of the human spirit to the eternal abode. Shiva Linga is a symbol of this personification. I think you do know what the word Linga means too. It means symbol. This itself is proof of why Linga is worshiped. Again, it is basic common sense that in a temple, ageing leads to idols and Lingas undergoing wear and tear. So an old Linga is repaired and restored. If Hindus worship the object per se (the non-living Linga), why would they renovate it. Can God be renovated?? Again your argument falls flat. And try to read Lingashtakam (that describes the oblations to Linga) with translations. This symbol came to be in the Puranic period but this has nothing to do with a genital. Long live Wendy Doniger.

    Polytheism: Your take on repeatedly invoking polytheism is useless. If anything, you have made an idolatry of polytheism. Vedas are beyond theisms. The summation of everything ends in one Supreme Brahman. It does not matter how many names and how many symbols/forms are associated with this great being. Your periodic rants on Hindu polytheism are now stale.

    God’s omnipresence and God being in toilets: The omnipresent nature of God is reflected in a RV verse that goes One is Fire, One is Sun, One is Dawn, the One has become the whole Universe. The spirit of God permeates this world. There is a verse in Isha Upanishad that alludes this Universe to be the outreach of the timeless ONE in time and space. I will address the Islamic contrary view point on Firdous later but to a Hindu, the spirit of God permeates this Universe.

    Does God live in a toilet bowl made by Kohler? Pretty simple. In living beings, the spirit of God is seen in the form of PRANA, the life air. If that stops,if God’s spirit exits a man, he is a piece of meat. Among non-living things, I do not know which intelligent mind wanted to check if a toilet bowl can be worshiped? When Hindus worship (as you claim) an idol or a linga, there are specific symbolic invocations that request God to breathe PRANA into that idol and after the Pooja, there are invocations to restore the idol to just an idol. This symbolic rite itself shows once agin that Hindus do know that a piece of stone is not God. Other than for the sake of an asinine argument to diss Hinduism, your argument about toilet bowls only reflects your mentality.

    And your mindset looks at God to be isolated from this Universe. That is because post judgement day, you believe that all Muslims will end up populating jannat that God runs and be there an independent beings. But the Hindu take on this, as you know, is that upon dissolution of the Universe (cyclic in nature), the Universe dissolves into God. The DMZ between God and manifested Universe is not there (as we saw above from RV and Isha Upanishad). And the individual souls are all but multiple parts of the ONE true cause / source.

    • Ashwin,

      Thanks for the courtesy. In addition to Shiva Linga pointing to Shiva being the enabler of the upward movement of human spirit toward the eternal abode, it actually is the symbol of Skambha, the cosmic pillar that is found in Atharvanana Veda 10/7/ 1 – 40. This Skamba alludes once again to God supporting this Universe. And Linga is a representation of this. The head of this Skamba is the Universal fire & the verses go on to describe many attributes of God through the cosmic pillar, the poles of which cannot be determined. There is a belief in Shaivite tradition that Shiva, in his devouring form of Rudra, is seen as a pillar of fire without a beginning or end. That thought came from Skambha.

      Discussing all this would not have made too much sense on that forum. That’s why I simply left what Shiva linga was, based on an attribute of Rudra / Shiva.

    • @Apolloreach/Ashwin

      Very knowledgeable write up for all of us. Apollo brother I also would like to study Veda can you suggest me which version in English you are reading. From where you have got this tremendous knowledge. By version I mean to say whose commentary you are studying.

  47. TEXTUAL CORRUPTION OF QURAN: I did not say so but going by the yardstick that many people apply to Vedas, I “inferred” the textual corruption of Quran from another Islamic forum, by using their yardstick.

    Here was my submission to them. I am no expert on their scripture and I leaned upon Ali Sina for help, though. It does not matter if I were wrong about the content of my response but I am focusing on YARDSTICKS for textual corruption in scriptures. Here is what I posted…

    ” Words of Hamza Andreas Tzortzis and excerpts from “The History of the Quranic Text” to deal with manuscripts found in Yemen are not gonna take you too far. Many of us have read / heard Inimitable Quran and the debate between Ali Sina and Hamza Andreas is for everyone to see. The linguistic arguments based on which Hamza tries to run down Puin’s opinion was already debunked by Ali Sina, of course the context was that the linguistic features of Quran make it a miracle (which Hamza claimed). Try something else. And I have fulfilled the conditions of understanding both – WHO is saying and WHAT is being said. The WHO part is Hamza and the WHAT part is the linguistic uniqueness of Quran (based on which Hamza tries to debunk Puin) was ripped by Ali Sina.

    Here is an example of the response to Hamza Andreas Tzortzis’s arguments on the inimitabile nature of Quran ( from debate between Ali Sina and Hamza): “Ibn Masood, a prominent companion of the prophet did not accept the first and the last two Suras as being the part of the Quran.So if the Quran had been unique in terms of its inimitability, Ibn Masood would not have had such reservations.” And Neer, this is the guy whose post you are using to deal with the manuscripts found in Yemen.

    On the same topic this post exposes the duplicity of IHI. You stated – “The oral tradition of the Qur’an is so well established that any minor textual “error” can be easily rectified.” Now is this not what is being explained about Vedas too? And in my comments on this site, I have stated that the oral tradition of recitation CORRECTS the written down manuscripts of multiple traditions.

    When printed manuscripts of say Rig Veda from different traditions differ in number of mantras, you cry from the roof top that Vedas are corrupted but you have listed down 27 different MSS of the Quran that have obvious variations. Now may I ask, where is the original? Uthman’s version cannot be original either, as, he simply jammed the MSS of a few copies and claimed it was THE Quran & we also have Ibn Massod, one of Prophet’s companions refusing to accept a few surahs of the extant Quran.

    You are using a logic devoid of common sense to gloss over palimpsests. You said “Third, palimpsests or overwriting of words or expressions in a few places do not suggest anything more than correction of mistakes omitted in the writing of the words in the first instance. It cannot be a proof in support of the theory of revision of evolution of the text unless and earlier copy of the Qur’an containing different words and expressions in the same place is shown to exist.”

    Now, when nobody possess the original Quran (Uthman’s version cannot be a reference, as we saw above), where can anybody bring it up from? So this is like trying to call a non-existing party to be the witness.

    Anyway, given you are using, among others, Hamza Andreas Tzortzis,who was cleaned up by Ali Sina on his inimitable nature of Quran based on linguistics, from where you have borrowed some content, your post is redundant.

    P.S: Let us say Alis Sina is a phantom but read WHAT is being said by him in his debate with Hamza, which has not been refuted. And before you ask me to look at WHAT Wendy Doniger states about Hindu scriptures, her books have been refuted by many people. Try Aditi Banerjee, for starters….”

    • Apolloreach Bro, Shahi Imam is a Ashraf Muslim so he will naturally support corruption because if corruption is removed then the ashraf muslims will have no power over lower caste muslims like ajlaf and arzal muslims.

      SHAHI IMAM ALSO IN BARKHA DUTT’S SHOW WAS THREATENING A MUSLIM BOY BECAUSE HE SAID HE HAD NO QUALMS IN SINGING VANDE MATARAM. BARKHA HAD TO INTERVENE AND SAVE THE BOY.

  50. Understanding the ways of the stooges of Zakir Naik –

    1) They believe that kafirs will burn eternally in hell and as they run out of skin, they will be given new sheathes of skin to experience pain.

    2) When the number of mantras in printed versions of Vedas of different Vedic schools are different, Vedas are corrupted. But we know that Vedas are to be recited and heard. The recitals are protected in atleast 5 different ways & printed copies mean nothing. But they will have none of it. But when different Quranic manuscripts have different sura numbers and have missing verses they will say that the Quran is protected by oral recitations.

    3) They will mock Hindu beliefs but believe that Muhammad split the moon and that he rode on a strange animal called buraq to heaven, Jerusalem etc and returned in a night.

    4) They expect Hindus of one philosophical school to refute another but they will be silent about the multiple Sunni schools of Islamic jursiprudence, the Shiite schools and ofcourse the conflicting beliefs of the 72 different sects in Islam.

    5) The new deception, given Zakir Naik has become a spent force, they claim that Zakir Naik’s understanding of Hinduism is wrong but then they would still actively promote his thoughts on the so called comparative studies (Hinduism and Islam) on their forums.

    6) They are unable to take an unequivocal position on critical issues like death for apostasy and they would try to determine how strong or weak the chain if narrations are instead of squarely saying that killing someone that leaves Islam is wrong.

    Whereas, where Hinduism is concerned, we do not need someone else to hold a mirror but rather we can condemn and work against non-Dharmic practices like devadasis or sati or casteism etc. But ZN’s stooges will simply try to defend some of the most inhuman practices by hook or crook & play the role of porters fro Arabs.

    I have another two dozen items that calls the bluff of these guys but that is not gonna serve any purpose.

    All in all, the above post on Islam and Hinduism Debate rings so true. I have realized the futility of entering into discussions with these conditioned minds. And their intellectual bankruptcy has been exposed time and again but they would still believe that their faith and their viewpoints are always superior. These guys epitomize intransigence. No amount of new rants from them are gonna restore their credibility that has been dented but the irony is that these intelligent by half people, just do not get it!!! And I have stopped taking these guys seriously anymore.

    • @AR:

      Indeed. There is not a single point from the other side that has made me think. While there were problems in Indian society, Hindus are able to look at the issue dispassionately and condemn such practices. The Momins simply cannot bring themselves to admit past mistakes. My thoughts:

      (1)To be a Muslim, you HAVE TO HAVE AN UNEQUIVOCAL POSITION ON BIG BANG [BB] AND ADAM/EVE STORY. Both are wrong however much science advances. You cannot be a Momin and even be agnostic on the BB or Adam/Eve.
      (2)Muslim invaders were the most peaceful people on earth. Oh the irony inherent in the words used in this statement.
      (3)They have NO IDEA what they are talking about when they say Allah is eternal. BTW…I LOVED the question posed by Truth Seeker on that forum. We may have to wait an eternity to hear back from them 😉 on Allah’s eternity.
      (4)Even if something can be logically established [such as eternality of the universe/God] as true, it is false if it finds mention in Hindu books and finds no mention in Quran.
      (5)The complete lack of anything close to “mysticism” or “spirituality” in Islam. None, zero, zilch. One page of the Bhagvad Gita has more material worthy of spiritual contemplation than the entire Quran and Hadiths put together.
      (6)Lack of any philosophy altogether. Indian philosophy is complete and was complete by the time of Shankara if not Madhavacharya. Nothing close to Indian philosophy/metaphysics is available in Islam.

      All in all it is an extremist religion that has adherents SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF ETERNAL HELLFIRE. Thats it. There is no other reason one needs to be Momin.

      • I second you KB. Sometimes I sympathize these guys who have been terrorized by the bed time story of an eternal hellfire.

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