Vedas are the foundation of birth-based caste discrimination. It is in Vedas – the oldest scriptures of Hindus – that the seeds of casteism were laid. And since then exploitation of certain sections of population became mainstay of Hinduism. The conditions aggravated further later, but the foundation was in Vedas – the ultimate authority for all Hindus. And because Vedas are ultimate unquestionable authority for a Hindu, there was no way for the rot of caste-system to be eliminated from the society.

The above stated belief system seems to be the predominant opinion regarding origin of caste system infecting a wide diaspora of so-called ‘intellectual’ mindsets.

Win-win for all

  • Intellectuals from other religions use this as main excuse to hate Hinduism. So those involved in conversion from Hinduism and justifying the conversions done by them or their ancestors would find a convenient justification in blaming it on ‘Vedic’ birth-based caste system. Its a winning proposition for them thus.
  • Casteist self-proclaimed Brahmins and so-called Upper-castes use Vedas as the tool to defend their ‘divine’ special rights regardless of their actual deeds. For them, of course, nothing could be more lucrative than an order from Vedas to continue giving an MBBS degree to all future generations of a doctor regardless of whether they actually could even spell ‘medicine’!
  • Dalit leaders including Ambedkar have used this to explain discrimination in society and further their own political agenda. Who would like to destroy the entire vote-bank by destroying the very foundation of caste-system in totality? So even though Ambedkar admitted that the only means for him to interpret Vedas were works of western indologists since his own knowledge was grossly inadequate, he chose to still ridicule the Vedas even though in other areas like Aryan Invasion Theory he vehemently criticized the western view!
  • Even someone like Mohandas Gandhi – on whose name the recent ‘Gandhian’ movement against corruption led by Anna Hazare made history -was bugged by this syndrome. Despite his other apparently mature views, with regards to birth-based caste-system, Mohandas Gandhi held firm belief that it was divine and essence of Hinduism. So instead to refusing to accept the very foundation of casteism, he chose to legitimize it further by giving a special name to certain people – Harijan. What could be a greater insult to them than giving them a tag in same manner as Arab looters would put chains over their slaves aka Non Arab Muslims and call them ‘Mawali’? And now they say that ‘Mawali’ actually has a noble meaning! But blood-caste theory was so deeply entrenched that calling dark people of Africa as ‘raw naked Kafirs’ or ‘chandals’ or calling for ‘purity of race’ amounted to service of humanity! (refer http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm for some references)

In fact the reason why ‘Harijan’ seemed to be the right word for so-called Shudras is that as per foolish neo-Hindu castiest views, Hari Bhakti was the ONLY spiritual option for Shudras as they were disallowed access to any Vedic literature! So by calling them ‘Harijans’ one can serve votebank of bigoted ‘upper castes’, neutral intellectuals and even ‘lower-castes’. And indeed the trick worked if we were to assess the popularity of this word with a demeaning intent.

We do not deny Mohandas’ contribution to society and nation. We admire his charisma. But for sure there are thousands of more unbiased non-dogmatic minds born in this nation who have contributed as much if not more. So despite all that Mohandas Gandhi is claimed to have done for the nation, we can no way admire someone who supported apartheid – the worst of the crimes – so vocally. Our firm belief is that the over-hype and imposition of Gandhi on India at cost of utter negligence of so many other role models that this oldest civilization of world has produced is driven by reasons that are different from an unbiased analysis of personalities and their concrete contributions. We need not elaborate on views of his protege Nehru whose ‘Discovery of India’ clearly proves his intent and wisdom. But all that is not the focus of this article. The crux is that even so-called reformer politicians could not rise over the myth of Vedic caste system for various selfish and non-intellectual reasons.

(None other Swami Dayanand had the guts to proclaim in clear terms, with evidences and reason, that no one is born Brahmin. A duffer born to a so-called Brahmin is worse than a Shudra, and a scholar born in family of even a so-called Chandal is a Brahmin. So those who call certain people ‘Shudra’ on basis of birth are actually duffers and worse than Shudras themselves.)

We are fully with Annaji on the tirade against corruption but pray that he is using Gandhism as a political ploy but unequivocally rejects the casteist and racist views of Mohandas. 

  • Western indologists, of course, found a golden opportunity in the so-called Vedic caste-system to dissuade Hindus from their foundations. They knew that most Indian intellectuals simply parrot what their white-Aakaas (Lords) utter and that is exactly what is happening even till today. They had to do nothing great when foolish Hindus were still clinging to termite-hill of casteism as their foundation despite all the slavery and downfall it had brought to them over last thousand years and even more. All British had to do was to propagate the garbage works on Vedas by their paid indologists in lingua-franca – English – and make it the predominant view on Vedas worldwide. After all a false marketed smartly becomes a truth! Even a toilet cleaner advertised well becomes drink of success!

Thus we see that there were vested interests of all – the loser, the victor, the lawyer, the judge, the neutral observer of drama – in ensuring that caste-system and the blame of its foundation in Vedas be continued and furthered.

But Agniveer cannot tolerate it

There were from time to time voices raised against this stupid caste system. Those were the great men who did so and Agniveer hails them as role models. But even they could not go to the root and question the very foundation of this hoax – ‘that Vedas sanction birth-based caste system’. So their efforts only led to dissuasion of masses away from their own foundation – Vedas – and helped the enemy forces even more.

If someone calls your mother an indecent lady, you do not expel your mother. You instead explore the truth of the allegation, defend your mother if there is no such evidence and reject her only when there is a conclusive evidence to contrary.

But those who can reject their mother at the very first hearsay are simply acting insane. What other adjectives can be used for them is left to readers. However the crux is that Vedas are mother for entire humanity – the first source of knowledge and wisdom and direction like mother’s milk. Those who neglect the mother or abuse her without any logical basis are bound to perish!

The humanity is facing troubles today because it neglected the mother. And we, the natives of this subcontinent, suffer even more ignominy and ironies and tragedies and problems because we were closest to mother in recent history and yet chose to neglect her, or even malign her. We truly deserved greater punishments and we rightly received them!

However there are no surprises that we as foolish Hindus act so insane. After all we derive our inspiration from fake and bogus stories from dubious texts that glamorize Sita’s exile by Rama and Harishchandra selling his wife! Even God can help only those who desire to help themselves!

And that is exactly why legends like Swami Dayanand and their progeny like Agniveer stand so strongly in defense of Vedas. Even if all other children of the mother choose to harm her or neglect her out of intent or foolishness, that does not grant each of us an automatic divine approval to also neglect her and act even more foolish. The Law of Karma never spares anyone.

Note that the above is not an emotional hyperbole. Because such views if understood without depth may lead to blinded fanaticism. Someone may call Quran or Bible his mother and become defensive, other may consider Somalian piracy as its mother and become aggressive and so on. This would lead only to fanaticism.

On contrary, the above is a well-analyzed viewpoint emanating as a result of a reasoning process. And we are very clear that if Vedas indeed are source of anything illogical, we shall reject even the Vedas in same manner as one amputates his own limb if having gangrene.

The articles on the site would give you ample insights into this reasoning process. With regards to caste-system, we have already covered Vedic viewpoint in detail in several other articles. Readers are requested to specially review http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

However one popular issue still remains to be explained to complete the puzzle. This is with regards to one particular verse of Vedas appearing in Purush Sukta that is considered to be mother of birth-based casteism. This is perhaps the ONLY alleged reference to casteism in Vedas. All others allegations are too weak to be taken seriously even by detractors of Vedas. But this one, though equally flimsy, surprisingly became a super hit just like many stupid bollywood movies!

So it does merit some special attention.


About Purush Sukta

Purush Sukta is a hymn of 16 mantras from Vedas that appears in all 4 Vedas with slight variations. More PhDs have perhaps happened on Purush Sukta than on any other intellectual aspect of Vedas. The 11th mantra of the Sukta is the one that carries the blame of birth-based casteism.

To explain the mantra and conduct their PhDs, scholars have used a variety of approaches.

– Some simply translated it literally

– Some used their grammar prowess to justify casteism.

– Others (primarily those inspired by Arya Samaj) use the same prowess to reject it.

– Many other conclude that Purush Sukta is a later addition to Vedas because it is found in last Mandala of Rigveda. In fact they claim that the entire last Mandala of Rigveda is a later addition simply because they suspect so! So perhaps ghost of Shah Jahan lives in Red Fort because I suspect so!

(Its a different matter that they cannot explain why no version of Vedas without this 10th Mandala exists or how Purush Sukta is then found in other Vedas as well, not necessarily at end?)

(Sometimes we do feel that lack of scientific education has spoiled the entire world. Most people leading opinions in areas like history, literature, media etc are those who were more scared of science and mathematics than ghosts. Be it a Romila Thapar, or Wendy Doniger, or Max Muller or anyone else you may name. Thus destiny did not give them the opportunity to master scientific process of thinking and analytical faculty. Perhaps a serious study of Satyarth Prakash can help them compensate the terrible loss they have made!

We are of firm opinion that we need thoroughly scientific and analytical brains in these fields if we are to save our education system. An aptitude and reasoning test should be a MUST.)

 

About Casteism in Purush Sukta

Coming back to the Purush Sukta, there is this Mantra number 11 who is the culprit.

It literally says:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

Thus Shudras are lowly people born from his feet and Brahmins are greatest ones born from his mouth. Hence the mantra is alleged to insult Shudras and glorify Brahmins. Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are somewhere between.

– As we said earlier, you can find a plethora of literature that critically analyzes this mantra and provides a wide amount of perspectives. Many explain in greater detail how this mantra led to modern day caste system through a chain of events and thought process.

– Others try to prove that the mantra itself is interpolation because no other mantra in Vedas can be used to justify caste-system. As we observed earlier, we are always too eager to drive out the mother so as not to offend any allegation-maker!

– The more sincere defenders of Vedas attempt to provide alternative meanings of the various words used in the mantra to justify why it does not talk of birth-based casteism. They showcase evidence from other literature on the alternative usages of these words and attempt to defend the allegations.

To my mind, even this is a fruitless exercise beyond a point. Because Vedas are much more to do with analysis and introspection and very less to do with grammar and etymology. After all language was derived from Vedas and not vice-versa.

(Swami Dayanand thus laid great emphasis on analytical reasoning. In his proposed educational curriculum, only first few years of educations, when intellectual faculty is limited, were dedicated to mugging up the basics. And rest of it was primarily focused upon developing the analytical and introspective faculty. Unfortunately, modern Vedic scholars spent years in only grammar and neglect science and maths completely. Thus their analytical reasoning is limited and they are unable to derive new insights and researches from Vedas. Like other Arts subject, research in these fields primarily implies inconsequential literature survey (Which may soon become obsolete due to advent of search engine technology and digitization!))

 

Analysis of the casteist mantra of Purush Sukta

Coming back to the main line of discussion, let us now analyze it deeper but a bit logically.

Let us reproduce the meaning again for readability:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

1. How does the mantra imply that Brahmins are superior and Shudras are inferior? In fact if the mantra be literally true then Brahmins are the most disgusting and Shudras much purer.

Because vomit and sputum come from mouth. After perhaps urine and stool, they are the most detestable outputs of human body.

If a cherry falls on feet, you can still pick it up and eat it after washing. In fact most of the grains we eat may have touched ground or feet in some way or other. But if it gets into someone’s mouth and mixes with his saliva or sputum, you will not eat it for sure even after washing!

 

2. How can something be born from feet, thighs, mouth or arms? Even for a human being, the organs for reproduction are different. It is thus obvious that the mantra actually means something else. Foolish people take allegories literally.

By this logic, if a son is ‘Aankhon ka tara’ or Gem of the Eyes of his mother, it would imply that he resides in form of a star within an eye of his mother! Perhaps we would send to asylum those who take such similes literally.

 

3. The same modern ‘orthodox’ Hindu ideology also believes in rebirth of soul. In fact the very foundation of Vedic religion and all its offshoots is belief in rebirth of a soul that is unborn and undying. So the questions are:

How could ‘unborn’ soul be born from something? And if it is true, then rest of the Vedas and Vedic literature is false.

– What happens after we die? Now it is an established belief that one can change from Brahmin to Shudra etc in next birth depending upon Karmas or actions. In fact this is the lollypop that bigoted ‘Upper Castes’ offer to so-called Shudras – serve us for this birth and then become Brahmin in next birth.

So if migration of caste is possible in next birth, we would like to understand the mechanism. Is it that after death, soul goes back to Purusha’s feet or mouth or arm or thighs, transfer via the blood circulation system to next organ and take birth again?

– And what about animals and insects and birds? From where are they born and how do they change into Brahmin etc?

Does it not all sound stupid if literal translation were to be taken seriously?

 

4. And in any case, the Vedic Supreme Lord is always formless and omnipresent. So how can He have face, arms, legs in first place? Refer Yajurveda 40.8 which states so in unambiguous terms. 

 

5. Further even if we assume Supreme Lord to have shape and be able to reproduce from His various organs except the one that is used in humans for this purpose, how does that imply birth-based caste system? How can one conclude from this mantra that Brahmins will take birth in family of Brahmins alone and Shudras in family of Shudras? Brahmins or Shudras or whatever should take birth directly from body of Supreme. As per the literal meaning of mantra, if someone takes birth from womb of a mortal woman and NOT directly from God Himself, then he or she can be neither of the 4 Varnas. They are someone else!

 

6. What more, the mantra is in past tense. So at best one can conclude that Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras were born from various organs of a queerly formed Purusha at inception of creation. But none of them survive till today. The Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras of today are born hardly a few decades ago. But as per literal meaning of mantra, the birth has already happened. It does not say that God continues to run a factory for future production.

Further none of modern human beings actually came from anywhere except mother’s womb. So none of these modern claimants of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra are genuine claimants. They all are fake claimants.

 

7. Had someone taken birth from some woman’s mouth, we could have still have pretended to act superstitious and assert that ” Since the mother is Supreme God, the newborn is a Brahmin”. But still, the condition of birth from mouth, hands, legs or thighs ALONE constitutes a valid birth to qualify to be called either of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra. Rest of us – normal mortals – who originate from womb of our mothers and not from hands, legs, mouth etc are perhaps aliens from outer universe controlled by some other God as per literal meaning of the verse!

 

8. Since all births on planet earth happen ONLY from mothers, thus if we are to exist (which we all do!) then all women who give birth should be God themselves as per the mantra. And all men should be something other than either of 4 Varnas. We have no objection to people respecting all women as God. But at the same time, all men should be anything but humans since they did not come from mouth, arms or legs of any woman.

Very clearly, the mantra makes no sense if one were to take it literally.

What is pity that such a level of nonsense held sway over us for centuries, made us harassed paupers and yet we refuse to get rid of the crap! 

 

The proper intuitive obvious meaning of the mantra

However if the mantra were to be analyzed in context of rest of the mantras and more intelligently, definitely there is a whole branch of knowledge pertaining to creation that can be researched from the Sukta.

One can review the Chapter on Creation (Srishtividyavishay) in Introduction of Vedas (Rigvedadibhashyabhumika) by Swami Dayanand for a more logical and detailed contextual analysis. You can get it from Download section of agniveer.com

However an intuitive understanding of the mantra is very simple even for a layman if we are willing to remove the glasses of prejudice and mindset. It means exactly what has been stated by all translators:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

 

The only issue is that Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra do not refer to any souls or humans.

They refer to Varnas or properties that can be chosen.

 

And ‘He’ refers to not only the Supreme Lord as a whole but any self-enriching ecosystem – be it society, organization, individual or universe. After all everything is inspired by the Supreme Lord!

 

So the mantra means that any ecosystem necessarily consists of 4 Varnas or properties or qualities  or components – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. Brahmin means intellect and knowledge. Kshatriya means strength and valor. Vaishya means management, balance and stability. Shudra means rest of the qualities including ignorance.

A smart system would utilize the 4 components in most optimized manner.

So a successful society would have intellectuals or Brahmins as head, Warriors or Kshatriyas as protecting hands, Vaishyas or business managers as stability providers or bone marrow producers (femur or thigh bone is the strongest bone of body) and rest of population would be utilized to provide support and basic infrastructure for the society.

A successful company would also organize itself accordingly.

The Supreme also creates the universe in a manner that these 4 components are balanced.

 

– As human beings, even we have all these 4 within us. But as they are Varnas (choice) we have option to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives. Note however that there is no binary choice of either having or rejecting a property. All the 4 must exist, only their proportions may vary. 

 

– Our brain represents the Brahmin which should be nurtured to extent possible. We should have strong arms to protect ourselves. A very healthy body and good blood circulation to ensure our longevity and powerful feet to be dynamic.

 

There is no human who does not have any of these components or properties within him. And there is no meaningful activity that can be performed in absence of all these 4. After all we are a complete being and not parts.

 

So when we are even studying Vedas – we use the Brahmin to understand the essence, Kshatriya to ensure we can study peacefully and not be disturbed by every other mosquito or nuisance, Vaishya to manage the procurement of Vedic text and lamp, and Shudra to actually sit down, switch on the lamp and perform all manual tasks necessary to successfully complete the study. If even one of the Varnas is ignored, the task may not be successfully and sustainably completed.

Buddhism focused only on Brahmin and hence perished in Afghantistan to attacks from West Asian looters. Wahabis got exclusively into warfare and made world a dangerous place. Hindus became too much of managers/ Vaishyas or Jugaadbaaz and lost their strength and dignity. Pakistan made Shudras out of its population by neglecting education and training and is nearing a failed state due to dominance of barbarians.

– In society, we, for sake of simplicity, call a person Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra based on his predominant profession. However this is only a simplistic approximation. In reality, each of us has a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra within us or else we would not be able to even survive for a while.

 

You can clearly see that with this very logical interpretation, the entire Varna system as well as the mantra becomes so comprehensible and easy to understand. Of course, with further introspection and analysis including study of language, we can derive even deeper meanings from this vastly intellectual mantra from one of the most wonderful Suktas of Vedas.

Summary

But the broad essence is very obvious and intuitive, if observed without any baggage of post-dated bias and preconceived notions.

– That the particular mantra is not to be taken literally but as an analogy.

– That Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra represent 4 properties that pervade all human beings.

– That these 4 properties are Varnas or choices. Which means that we have a choice to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives.

– That the 4 organs of body – head/face/mouth, arms, thighs and legs – represent the qualities of the 4 varnas. And if we consider the broader meaning of Uru used for Vaishya, it implies the entire central system – digestive system to thighs. In fact in Atharvaveda version of the mantra, the word Madhya meaning Center is used instead of Uru to clarify this better.

– Thus any ecosystem which provides appropriate roles & responsibilities to these 4 properties or people representing these properties is bound to be successful – be it an individual or society. Those who try to use feet for head or vice versa are bound to perish.

And that is exactly what happened through birth-based caste system. Even the most dumb witted were made ‘heads’ or ‘face’ of society merely because they were born in certain families that claimed to be Brahmins. The weaklings were warriors because of family tag. And the most brilliant were forced to be in servile positions simply because they were born in some other set of families. So we were destroyed!

However, we clearly see that by any stretch of sane imagination, one can no way interpret the Purush Sukta mantra to have any meaning even remotely associated with birth-based casteism. Vedas stand for complete meritocracy and equal opportunities for all human beings.

So all these PhDs trying to prove or disprove casteism in Purush Sukta mantra 11 are completely irrelevant. They only reemphasize the need for quality aptitude training and examination of those who indulge in such researches. And speak volumes about intellectual capabilities with regards to analysis and logic of those so-called scholars who conducted such researches in past. 

As we have also analyzed in other parts of the article series, the whole hoax of Vedas having anything to do with racism or casteism or discrimination in the name of gender or birth is a figment of imagination of selected few. It is true that for quite a significant period in history, such perverted ideology held sway over the sub-continent causing utter loss to world and country. However events do not justify themselves merely by their happenings. Just because something stupid happened in the era of Ashoka or even Ramayan and Mahabharat does not make that justifiable.

(There is a misplaced notion that ancient India was Vedic and now we are non-Vedic. Or that western world is anti-Vedic and we are more Vedic. All these notions emanate from shallow thinking. Vedas represent the best practices manual and fundamental laws of nature and living. There was never a time when all best practices of Vedas were implemented with 100% perfection and there was never a time when a society completely rejected Vedas. All this varies from time to time in different aspects of life. We benefit when we adopt Vedic wisdom in certain aspects of our lives and face miseries when we refuse to do so in some other aspects. Thus we are far more Vedic in certain aspects compared to Ramayan and Mahabharat era. In certain aspects we lag behind. Similarly, western world is far far more Vedic in certain aspects of life like respect for all humans, while we are ahead in some other aspects like family values. This is a multivariate highly non-linear and dynamic function. But Vedas provide us way to attempt to maximize the value of the function in any given point in time.)

So citing examples from history or present era to claim something to be Vedic or anti Vedic is as foolish as rejecting Vedas.  We do not reject the concept of circle in Mathematics simply because a perfect circle cannot be drawn in reality!

Thus all we need to do is to seek opportunities for improvements in true spirit of Vedas. That is what ideals are meant for.

Now this caste system has been an anti-Vedic nuisance troubling us for ages. It has been a prime cause for all other troubles we faced and continue to face for last thousands of year. However today is the most golden opportunity to destroy its very roots and become deserving of greater bliss.

The modern era social patterns make it totally outdated to classify a person simplistically into any one of the 4 Varnas. It is time we adopt a more evolved model – where each human has all the 4 Varnas whose proportion vary in different aspects of life at different times in different situations.

And the foundation as well as inspiration for it should rightly come from our roots – the Vedas themselves. Let us together destroy the myth of casteism in Vedas and take it further to destroy all traces of birth-based casteism from our society as guided by Purush Sukta.

We conclude with our interpretation of Purush Sukta mantra 11 in nation’s perspective, as elaborated above:

May only the intellectuals be allowed to become face and heads of our nation. May only the strong, powerful and possessors of noble character be the strong hands that protect and bring us glory through efforts. May the smart trained managers guide our entire processes and ensure a vibrant healthy effective control mechanism. And may we utilize the rest of us to provide foundation and service to keep the system dynamic and powerful.

May we never allow non-intellectual minds to become heads, weaklings to become hands, untrained incompetents to manage the central control system and waste talented resources in doing less productive activities. Let us never allow mismatch of talents and job role on frivolous reasons like birth, family, favoritism, corruption etc. Let no profession – material or spiritual – become fiefdoms of selected few on the basis of any artificial barrier like caste or gender. And if there be any such existing barriers, let us destroy them completely in order to embrace the Purush Sukta!

Casteism is the father of all corruption and let us work for its total annihilation, in theory and practice. 

May the truth prevail!

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Disclaimer: By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. For full disclaimer, visit "Please read this" in Top and Footer Menu.

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235 Comments on "Is Purush Sukta of Vedas casteist?"

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mummyji
hindu scripture says one born to brahmin mother by sudra father is chandal and budha scripture says one expects respect from others but does’t respect others is chandal . for misraji- there r 5 mohlas in a village each can have representative who subsequently elect head representative for smooth running… Read more »
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[…] Vedas condemn birth-based caste discrimination […]

nitin
agar vedo me kahi sach hota , ya kisi hindu granth me koi sachchai to bhagvan buddha ko kabhi vedo ka khandan na karna parta … unhone pardafess kiya pakhandiyo ka, jo dharm k naam par vedo or granto ko rach kar bhole bhale logo par topte the or unka… Read more »
raj.hyd

buddh ji kab kaha ki vah ishvar hai ? koi to sabut dijiye ?
buddh ji ne bhi ved ka khandan nahi kiya balki tatakali n samaj me jo pakahnd uska virodh jarur kiya tha jo a chha kiya tha !

cutie
Hindu (body) four community: brahmin (head) kshatriya (arm) vaishya (belly) shudra (feet) All these four community called as hindu. We all are parts of one body. Without each part our body is not complete. If we lost one part of our body then we become handicap. The human body is… Read more »
cutie
All stupid people living in India that’s why this country cant be develop anymore as the other countries are well developed. Bcoz indian people live in caste-ism and egoist by nature especially who belong to upper class which is created by themselves not created by God.God only created human being..He… Read more »
cutie

Whenever someone’s ask you about your caste then your answer should be to them is:
I am a Brahmin in knowledge
I am kshatriya in valor
I am vaishya in business
I m shudra in service
In the end I am just sanatam dharmi hindu and nothing else..Then say you proud to be a hindu..

jalwan
god is one without secound. god is ajar/amar. whosoever is born or dies is not god. what to say of krishn, ram, parsuram even brahma, vishnu n shiv r not god whose avtars various persons r supposed to be.. everybody is aware that in last of tretayug prsuram 6th avtar(fought… Read more »
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[…] have already written in length on how this foolish innovation is against the very tenets of Vedas – the source-book of Hinduism. I have also discussed how this has been the prime culprit for our slavery and all atrocities we […]

John Ackerman
The Purusha Sukta was never meant to validate the caste system. Purusha was a hardened volcanic column at the north pole of Mars (Indra), which orbited the Earth 99 or 100 times above Mt. Kailas between 3700 and 700 BC.. The verse was merely meant as a description of the… Read more »
krishna
Hi Agniveer, In the Gita it is mentioned that as combination of Guna and Karma the four varnas were created. And one of the critics, Ambedkar had argued Gita was created to harmonise the many parts of Vedas and Upanishads which could otherwise be not harmonised. and that how could… Read more »
Arun
@Krishna Ambedkar wrongly assumed that it was a one to one correlation between Gunas and Varnas and it is not. There is a book Krishna I would recommend that is excellent primer. “Hindu Mind: Fundamentals of Hindu Religion and Philosophy for All Ages” by Bansi Pandit. You can buy it… Read more »
dogra

There is no lower not higher remember B.GITA: 5.18 L. Krishna states to view different people with same eye

Jay Arya

amedkar was anti hindu can you show me verse where gita says that in gita says each division is based on the work an individual does

Krishna
It doenst matter if ambedkar was anti-hindu or not, we can argue on his work only on merit. In this case the question ambedkar asks is how can three gunas [sattva,rajas,tamas] give rise to four varnanas as explained in the Gita,.. “chaturvarnaya maya srushtya” Chapter 4, verse 13. Can u… Read more »
Arun

@Krishna I already provided you with the explanation of how Gunas relate to Varna. Why did you ignore it? See my comment to you below.

Jay Arya

what do you mean by gunas? and in that verse Krishna clearly says varna is based on quality and activities not by birth as ambedkar believed I think by guna the shudra and vaisya are similar but vaisya are little higher

srikanth

if any newcomer reads this article he will get highly mislead/confused. Agniveer should not have put up this article.

http://agniveer.com/caste-system/
article of above link is very clear on many parts of purushasukta in question too ..

Dr. O. P. Sudrania
I am impressed with the spirit of the blog by Agniveer. I have myself writen several articles on caste problem and its relation in Hinduism. It is sad that the so called civilised society is a dishonest selfish society which thrives on the weak. It is here that I call… Read more »
Dr. O. P. Sudrania
I read the most of it as being a long post. I however agree on the point that Caste is not a Vedic sanction by birth as far as my information goes. I was aware of the fact that four Varnas are equated to the four parts of the body… Read more »
vijay
Namaste Agniveer and community. If position in the society is not a birth right how come most of the kings of aaryavarta from before Dasaratha to Rama and also Bharata to the Pandavas and the Yadavas , barring few exceptions were sons of a king rather than the best kshatriya… Read more »
AD

Lord Vishnu’s foot is considered to be the MOOOOOOST HOLY AND PURE thing in the entire world (nothing else anywhere is purer or holier than Lord Vishnu’s shri-charan). How can something created out of it be impure or bad?

sanmukh
Namakar to all my hindu brothers/sisters,,I think this is not caste system this is the duty of the man,vedas wants us to explain that a society or a country will run if these four duties are performed properly,but i think these things are imposed by brahmin just to escape from… Read more »
dogra
Goodpost Sanmukh, We as humble foot soldiers are spreading the faith to our brothers and sisters, have spirit, have courage, have humbleness, have Karma Yoga as a guide, Lord Krishna: Again in the Bhagawad Gita, sloka 29, Chapter 9, Lord Krishna says, “I look upon all creatures equally; none are… Read more »
sanatic

you have explained meaning of 11th slok of purushsukta only. but other sloks from purushsukta describe the same creation of different things from yatpurusha’s organs. please give meaning of other slokas also in present context. otherwise the allegation of 11th slok will remain as it is

sanatic

you have explained only 11 th slok of purushsukta but all other sloks are describing that various oragns of yatpurusha from which different things were created please give meaning of other slokas with present context

CSMG Sarma
Dear Agniveer, Keep up the good work. Recently, I have come across an interview of Dr. Subrahmanian Swamy. Where he explains the caste system and its rise in Bhatrat(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHwzEnFoRmM). I believe the 11th sloka of Purusha sukta makes sense while explaining this logic.He(Dr. Swamy) explains that the entire caste system… Read more »
Dr.SK Pandey
well said dear. Similarly Vivekanand has explained it in “Rebuild India”. Mind represents Brahman, Arms the kshatriya, Abdomen the Vaishya and legs the Shudra. He further explains that in reality all the four varnas exist in every human being. When he learns/teaches or uses his brains, he is brahman. When… Read more »
Charvaki

@shaas Man, you are even mor deluded than that Zakir Naik and co.!!

KalBhairav

@shaas:

And it needs some special features of the nervous system that is inherited by the brahmins from their gotra.

WTF?

Shaas
Already the title of the article is non-sensical. It is as if you would proclaim that there is a discrimination between apples and mangos only because they have been born differently. Castes are natural. There is even a saying in English: Birds of the same feather flock together. Caste is… Read more »
KalBhairav
@shaas: The point of the article and many of us posters here is that birth-based division into castes is meaningless. If a White American says he will not pick fruits because he is “white” and he will sit all day in the executive room in AC, while a “Brown” Mexican… Read more »
Sam
@Faizi ” therd are more than 100 temples in my city and no dalit pujari i have seen” Are you kidding? How stupid do you think people are. Like you even know who are the priests in even one single temple. You claim to “know” without knowledge. Is that Muslim… Read more »
Akhila Padhi

@Faizy – Come to Odisha, I will take u to thousand temples where dalits are the priests.

Akhila Padhi

and many of them are women too.

faizi
@ mumbai, therd are more than 100 temples in my city and no dalit pujari i have seen. No single in whole city? No percentage even in points, flat zero. I dont want to become pandit or brahman, i want to show you true religion. Go and make dalit to… Read more »
Sameer
LOL Faizi Miyan you are accusing hindus of caste system. WHEN AMBEDKAR HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT MUSLIM CASTE SYSTEM IS WORSE THAN HINDU CASTE SYSTEM. DALIT EQUIVALENT OF MUSLIM IS ARZAL MUSLIMS WHO ARE ALSO CALLED “DALIT MUSLIMS”. ASHRAFIS ARE HIGHER CASTE MUSLIMS. ARZAL MUSLIMS CONDITION ARE MORE PATHETIC THAN… Read more »
shaikh
Blessed is He in whose hand is dominion, and He is over all things competent – [He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed – and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving – [And] who created seven heavens… Read more »
faizi
haha, kal bhairav u have left because u urself said that i am searching a good english translation of veda??? You even not read all veda thoroughly and calling me kid? Ok uncle one sdc uncle was comenting on my comment that in one yoni we bribe Allah will give… Read more »
Truth Seeker
@faizi hA………ha…ha………you. FOOL, even after reading Kuran you are bowing head before stone Kaba. Even after reading Kuran you are reciting human name in Allah prayer. Even after reading Kuran you believe Allah was sitting idol on his throne before this universe creation. Even after reading Kuran Muslim are killing… Read more »
faizi
truth seker brother i am talking to kal, and regarding ur question i am nt agree wid u. Quranic concept is Allah talked to Moses on this world on toor mountain nd gave him torah written on slates . Read quran for detail, just search on quran.com. And also Allah… Read more »
shravak

are we still entertaining this kid?

KalBhairav

@shravak:

are we still entertaining this kid?

I tuned off sometime ago. Its the same question, same non-answers all over again – day in and day out.

Truth Seeker
@faizi Why what u find illogical in my comment. Please counter me by one by one like this. Q Is Allah depend on angles or speaking to impart knowledge? _____-No, Allah never depends on them____ Faizi write your argument :- _________-Allah is Almighty i.e., So He needs no assistance to… Read more »
Truth Seeker

@faiz
What rubbish are u talking, just response me of it.
http://agniveer.com/5276/vedas-caste-disrcimination/#comment-35632

faizi
also kal g, no new quran is coming, read quran, every order in quran is helpful for human in this world nd hereafter. Because only creator know what is good for his creation. So regarding ur questiòn if we believe that it is from creator(there are so many ways to… Read more »
faizi
Even arabi peoples say others ajami which means gunga(dumb) who cant not speak arabi. There are four pronunciation of z in arabi. Isa alaihissalam has been given miracle in medicine field because that was the field which was on top that time and top doctors and discoveries wer coming. At… Read more »
Truth Seeker
@Faizi/ Other scholar Q Is Allah depend on angles or speaking to impart knowledge? Ans. No, Allah never depends on them. Veda is emanated directly from Allah and is originated in the heart of four rishis. Allah is Almighty i.e., So He needs no assistance to do universal deeds. In… Read more »
Charvak_pathik
Agniveer Mahoday, what you’ve written about Gandhi, well, I fully concur with it!! He was a fake saint and a “duratma”, not a “mahatama”. In my opinion, Sardar Patel deserves to be the true father of the nation, as he was one who forged modern India. Here are a few… Read more »
Charvak_pathik
Agniveer Mahoday, I’ve been reading all comments by this “faizi” (real name farzi) as well as your team’s counter replies and have been noticing that while on one hand, he avoids answering even the most basic questions(while Agniveer panthis adeptly clear all of his meandering taqqiya), on the other hand… Read more »
ravi
Manu eldest son [Priyavrata] became king, a Kshatriya. Out of his ten sons seven became kings while three became Brahman. Their names were Mahavira, Kavi and Savana. (Ref bhagwat puran chap.5) Kavash Ailush was born to a Sudra and attained the varna of a Rishi. He became mantra-drashta to numerous… Read more »
faizi

kal, agniveer always use anti islamic sites. All answers regarding scientific errors or linguistic errors hav been given my brother abdullah on http://www.answering-islam.com please visit if it nt satisfy u then tel me.

faizi

kal what should i answer do u undrstand the dif between mursaleen nd mursalaoon. Y Allah said Inna fathna, if he is one. Bhai first u read arabi then u can undrstand.

faizi

thanx bhai

Atman
@ Faiz: Why did Allah Create us????…. What was his motif behind creating Souls, Universe, Heaven and Hell???… What was Allah doing before he created Heaven, Hell, Universe, Angels and Souls??… one thing is for sure that Allah existed before Heaven, Hell, Universe, Angels and Souls.. Right??… now please tell… Read more »
faizi

go and read first 39 verses of surah baqarah surah number 2. u just put in google surah baqrah 1-39 and answer is their, quran is clear cut not like vedas. have you read all the vedas. i have asked mr. kal and truth seeker they dont replied..

Atman
@ Faizi. Namaste Brother Faizi…Where are you Brother??? why are you not answering my Question???? you asked me to read chapter 2 from Quran, Surah Al-Baqarah from Verse 1 to 39… but I am not able to understand what the very first verse means.. Please tell what does it mean..… Read more »
Atman
@ faizi.. Namaste Brother.. I started reading Surah Baqrah as you said.. but I came across a stumbling block in the very first Verse… it says “Alif lam Meem” … please brother tell me.. what does it mean.. so that i can move on to the Next verse
Truth Seeker

@Agniveer/All visiter/Faizi/Shabber

Agniveer Faizi & Shabeer are kaffir in disguise of Momins. If they really would have read Kuran, they must have answer of these Questions. They are here misguiding the momins.
Here is list of very easy questions related of pious Kuran Shariff:-
http://agniveer.com/5327/vedas-hatred-2/#comment-36548

faizi
kal, if any person belive in day of judgment nd hel paradise then he becom a gud human nd change of yoni faith always make him bad human. If i hv chance in next yoni to attain moksha then i wil do whatever i like, i’l cheat, bribe nd i’l… Read more »
krishna arya
yea!! similarly as a student has a chance to appear again and again in exam….. but not all students are as sensible as mr. faizi.. to “do whatever i like, i’l cheat, bribe nd i’l enjoy anyway. “.. so i think you got my point!! did you? god is not… Read more »
faizi
yes in one yoni u bribe, other u cheat, in other u rape, in oyher u become hitler then moksha but can u imagine what will happen to this world? u will make make it hell, like u can see comments on dr. zakir naik post. your yoni believing person… Read more »
krishna arya
“one yoni u bribe, other u cheat, in other u rape, in oyher u become hitler ——-” no you mr. faizi… listen.. in one birth you bribe.. you go far from moksha… in other birth you rape… you go still farer from moksha… then god will obviously punish you in… Read more »
faizi
kal, rationaly u r bogus, al answer hv been given regarding linguistic erors. It is nt the problem of quran bt it is problem ur mind. So simple u dnt knw arabi how cud u undrstand refutation. Either u learn arabi or rely upon quran lovers. A quran hater teling… Read more »
krishna arya
JUST THINK OVER IT MR. FAIZI WHICH category HUMAnS ARE INCREASING??? are rich and prosperous humans are increasing?? no but only poverty stricken, backward, resource less , sick humans are increasing… say up healthy people increasing or decreasing? say up diseases increasing or decreasing? say up life span increasing or… Read more »
True Indian

Well said Faizi.
You’re doing a good job!!

KalBhairav

@faizi:

Please stop using sms language. Or are you using Voice to Text software?

Thanks once again for simply dismissing my post as irrelevant without providing any reasons. That clearly settles the issues in your favour. Doesnt it? Well done.

faizi
kal bhairav; u dont understand so simple thing that if quran is protested then u r saying y bibble is not protected. u chew ur fingr but quran is protected because protection is from ALLAH. u intellegent arya samaji is their any person here who memorized whole veda. u talk… Read more »
KalBhairav

There you go…so, it all boils down to that the Quran contains linguistic miracles. Yes?

(1)OK. There already IS a Book of Mormon challenge laid down by Mormons here

http://www.jefflindsay.com/BOMchallenge.shtml

KalBhairav
Please solve that challenge and if you cannot convert to a Mormon Christian. Game? (2)There are so many contradictions in the Quran. See the link I posted before. Be careful about visiting http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRationalizer and watching his videos. He is an ex-Muslim and after watching his videos many Muslims have converted… Read more »
Truth Seeker

@Faizi
To Know about Veda must read this series of article of Agniveer on Veda
http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/

Truth Seeker

@Faizi

http://vedmandir.com/ Question & answer on Veda Visit on this website. Must visit this website.

Truth Seeker

@faizi
http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/ All Ved mantra Translation.

faizi

please give me link for veda translation

Raja

please give me link for Quran translation

faizi

truth sicker or any body i m unable to find veda translation in english or hindi by aryasamaji on web, u can find many translation of quran on web on all big lang. u go first translate nd add it on web or tell me site

Raja
Faizi, Now that you are shouting so much on Vedas being bad and Quran being best and then demanding translations, I challenge you to provide a sensible English translation of Quran. You claim that internet has many translations on Quran. Tell me which one is the correct one and not… Read more »
Truth Seeker
@faizi ________kun faya koon- Allah say be as it is nd it is done___________ To whome Allah said this? If all doer is Allah to whom Allah is addressing here & can without addressing Kun Faya Koon, Allah can do? Why Allah need to speak. Is he talking with himself?… Read more »
faizi

truth sickerrrr, u r not trying to understand, please read quran first. Allah is saying to that thing that be as it is, like ther was no pen but Allah saying to that pen be as it is nd ther is pen. hope u (DONT)understand.

krishna arya

o mr faizi….

see you yourself said…

————ther was no pen———-

and you said
————– Allah saying to that pen———

when there is no pen then how can allah say to the pen??
when the pen is not yet created how can it be ordered????

lol!! silly quran!! 😀

SDC

Truly, I did not understand you farziwada

KalBhairav
I love how Muslims start spouting nonsense about formlessness of Allah. When Advaita talks about Nirguna Brahman via “Neti-Neti” it is a description of pure consciousness. Brahman doesnt have any unfulfilled wish that it needs to test some poor souls. It just is. Dvaita talks of a personal Brahman which… Read more »
faizi
kal u cant never learn because u dont want to learn. dr. israr said that u cant prove GOd by logic, for every logic there is an answer nd u will always woder for truth. quran say”This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those… Read more »
SDC

You are a student of science and you say “Dr. israr said that u cant prove GOd by logic”. So, you being a student of science would like to follow something that is bereft of logic. Now, this is really paradoxical because science itself stands on logic.

faizi

really brother hahah, can you tell me logically everything should either expand or shrunk on cooling? if we cool water and iron what will happen?? hahahahahha ur logic ?

SDC
I am still to grasp the purport of your question. A phenomenon has to be observed, documented, experimented on, and then conclusions drawn. If in case you are referring to the behavior of matter under different conditions or of different matter reacting differently under the same set of conditions, so,… Read more »
KalBhairav
@faizi: Watch the following video and see how you guys laughably try to prove the “truth” in the Quran. I personally am myself trying to get a good English commentary the Vedas. I will definitely let you know when my search is satisfactory. But why do you want to prove… Read more »
faizi
truth sicker, U cn never undrstand, u read whole quran u cn find every answer. Allah said Allah dnt need anyone to do anything, kun faya koon- Allah say be as it is nd it is done. As far as angles r concern Allah dnt need them but is way… Read more »
SDC

Faizi, probably quran will suffice for half-wits like you, typical jehadi mindset.

Tell me why does your allah need to create Satan and the nonbelievers. He could have instead created a perfect world with only momins.

faizi
SDC ur answer has been given in quran, u can read directly. Allah said this world is for test, an exam, we have choice. we can accept or deny, we can work for jannat or dosakh. u cant understand if Allah forcefully make human muslim(ita’t guzar, submitting his will) like… Read more »
SDC
Just tell me this what evil did trees, animals, and non-living things do, that they will not get a place in jannat? Why were they created in the first place? And why was I not born as a muslim in the first place? Why were you privileged enough to be… Read more »
KalBhairav
You are stupid. There is no test or anything. Why all of a sudden does Allah need to create a weird test for non-existent souls by creating a non-existent universe? Not only this, but your Allah creates IMMENSE confusion in the minds of these souls once he has created them… Read more »
faizi

do u kknow anything about bible there are old nd new testament. u dnt know anything u just play wid words. do u know anything about old nd new testament.is bible alone is sufficient. hahahah

Truth Seeker
@faizi Do you think if my mind limit or finite, I may start dreaming. I will start to think Allah is just limited to a throne on 7th sky. Allah depends on a throne to sit. Allah does not like to stand much. Allah depends on angles to give revelation… Read more »
Truth Seeker

@Faizi/all true islam follower
Islam means peace. To know more go to Fatwa section of Satyagni. I think All fatwas are irrefutable.
http://satyagni.com/fatwa-online/

vijay
you are saying right, Islam means peace. But how is jehad is not the part of Islam, In which allah has said it clearly that seaze and kill non- Muslims. If you be leave that their was nothing in the binging. It means he create everything from his hands. when… Read more »
raj.hyd
manniy shri vijayji dekhe quran 8/65-66 jisme qurani allah kahate hai ki he! muhammad ! tum muslimo ko “jehad ” ke liye ubharo agar 20 muslim isme jame rahe to vah 200 [gair muslimo ] par “prbhavi ” honge![ 66] kurani allah kahate hai hamko maloom hua ki muslimo me… Read more »
faizi

y u nt answering that question? I knw what to answer to comunist. U answer that no.

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