Why did God create us?

Why-did-God-create-us
This article is also available in Hindi at
http://agniveer.com/4633/why-did-god-create-us-hi/ and in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/why-did-god-create-us-gu/

Even a cursory glance at the extraordinary orderliness that we see in the world around is sufficient to prove existence of an entity who is the great planner. This Entity operates so perfectly that scientists have been able to derive mathematical equations that quantify His unchangeable laws.

This Entity would move two unconnected particles even light years apart in such exact fashion that the mathematical formulation of universal law of gravitation is never violated. Scientists know that two distant particles come close to each other as per the equation of Gravitation, but fail to explain what makes the two particles talk to each other and conspire together to move closer in a planned manner. Similarly there are several other laws on which this universe operates – mathematical formulations of  few of them have been deciphered by modern scientists but many other remain to be explored in such details.

Now different people call this Entity differently. Scientists call it “Laws of Universe”, Muslims call it Allah, Christians call it God and Vedas – the oldest texts – call it by Om or Ishwar among many other names. A myopic cynic may term this entire world complete purposeless and emanating only out of a random chance of events. (Its a different matter that the very fact that he arrived at this conclusion proves that he is seeking order and purpose out of this randomness). We shall not dwell into the loopholes of such far-fetched statements in this article.

In this article, we shall explore the most fundamental question that arises naturally in most of the non-myopics (agnostics + theists) after seeing this mind-boggling world, its beauty and its ironies – Why did God/Ishwar/ Allah create us?

Most religions try to answer this basic question. And most people who quit one religion and join another are actually seeking answer to this question.

PREMISE 1: HE CREATED US SO THAT WE COULD WORSHIP HIM

Many religious scholars claim that God created us so that we could worship Him. If that be so,

a. God becomes nothing more than a praise-loving dictator suffering from superiority-complex.

b. It proves that God is inconsistent. He changes His habits. That is why since beginninglessness God was all alone, but then He suddenly thought of creating us.

Let us say, He decided to create us at point T1 in time. Now since time has no beginning and God was always present, hence time T1 or any other time T2, T3 etc are equidistant from origin of time which is infinity away. So if He can change his mood at time T1, there is no reason why He cannot change His mood at other time-points like T2, T3 etc. Also, there is no guarantee that He did not create and destroy us or other species at other times BEFORE time T1 of this creation.

Now all religions that claim that Allah created us so that we could worship Him also believe that Allah is perfect. Now if Allah is perfect, it means that at ALL points in time, He is equally perfect and operates as per the SAME laws. Perfection implies that there can be NO single-point inconsistency in God’ habits.

THUS, if God/Allah/Ishwar created us at time T1, He HAS to keep creating us at other time periods also IF He is perfect. Now He cannot create us twice! So if He creates us, He has to also destroy us so as to create us again.

Now if he continues to create and destroy us, how can He ensure that we worship Him when we have been destroyed. This means that either mood of God fluctuates with time, OR, He has NOT created us for worship.

CONFUSION: WHY HE MAKES US SUFFER WHEN HE HIMSELF CREATED US.

This is a most perplexing question that no religious cult can satisfactorily answer. This is the genesis of atheism. Muslims believe that God has a book “Lohe Mahfooz” under his throne, in which all the future acts of all the species has been written in complete detail. But this defies the concept of free-will. If what I do is already written a-priori, why punish me for being a Kafir? Even the punishment is written already in Lohe Mahfooz!

Clergies answer this paradox smartly. For example, the neo-Prophet Zakir answers in following lines:

“ In a class there are all kinds of students. Some are brilliant and come first. Others fail. Now a smart teacher can predict who will get what rank. This does not mean that the teacher is forcing the students to perform in a particular manner. This only means that teacher is intelligent enough to know who will do what. And since Allah is most-intelligent, He knows everything that will happen in future.”

A very reasonable sounding answer. But only that it has a major flaw. The teacher can predict the performance of his students only because he has assessed the past and present performance of the students. But in case of God, it is He Himself who decides which student would be born intelligent and who shall be dumb!

So while Mohandas Gandhi was born on 2nd October 1869, Allah had already decided millions of years before his birth that this boy would remain a Hindu, but appease Muslims, and yet be called a Kafir deserving Hell by devout Muslims like Muhammad Ali. So right from his birth, Gandhi had no choice but to simply follow what was already written millions of years ago.

The teacher-student logic would hold ONLY IF the prediction regarding performance of the soul is made only after the soul has been created and developed to be mature enough to decide his course of action. So a Lohe Mahfooz that exists even before creation of souls only proves that Allah/God is unjust. Please refer the articles on Helpless Destiny in Islam and God must be Crazy.

 

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PREMISE 2: HE CREATED US TO TEST US

This concept has already been debunked in God must be Crazy through several examples. Further, if He is testing us, He cannot have a Lohe Mahfooz or, in other words, cannot predict our future. If He already knows the future, there is no use of testing. And if He is doing both, He is acting only as a moody dictator fond of enacting dramas.

SO WHY DID HE CREATE US??? ULTIMATE CONFUSION

We have eliminated all implausible explanations that can answer this perplexing question. If not for testing and not for worship, what else can be the reason for creating us? It cannot be for giving us happiness, because we find so many brutal things happening in world. People even commit suicide tired of pains in life.

Further, why did he create in first place, even if to give happiness or grief or take an exam? Could he not have simply enjoyed his solitude that he decided to first create us and then play games with us? In helplessness, one is left with no choice but to say, “Allah knows the best”, or “Khuda Jaane”, or “ God knows”, or even “Goli maar bheje me!”

Buddhism is practical and does not even touch this question. It says that before even thinking of answering such questions, raise the level of intellect through practice of mind and sense control. No doubt, a very practical suggestion for those entrenched in worldly glitters to be blinded to see and feel things beyond.

But despite all this, the question keeps burning somewhere deep in us – Why did He create Us? And nothing seems to make sense or look purposeful unless a satisfactory answer to this question is obtained.

It is true that Only God knows the Best. But Vedas – the first books of humankind – throw sufficient light on this perplexing question for us to take this quest further. And the answer provided by Vedas is clear and unambiguous:

GOD NEVER CREATED US.

And because God never created us, He also never destroys us. Creation and destruction of soul is NOT the scope of work of God.

Thus, just as God is beginningless and endless, so are we. We have existed along with God always and shall continue to do so.

Q: If God did not create us, what does He do?

A: God does what He is doing today. God is managing us.

Q: Then why He made this world and universe?

A: God did not create the root cause of the world and universe. The root cause – called Nature (Prakriti) – was always present and shall remain forever.

Q: This is confusing – God does not create world and He did not create us. Then what does he do?

A: As told earlier, he is managing us. To explain in detail, God brings the root cause of inanimate nature (Prakriti) and modifies it to make the universe/world in same manner as a potter uses water and clay to create pots. He then integrates this universe with souls.

Q: But why does He do all this?

A: He does all this because unless he does so, souls cannot perform actions so as to maximize their happiness. Thus He integrates souls with the universe in a manner that Law of Karma holds perfectly at all times. Now soul can, as per its deed, choose to increase of decrease its happiness.

Q: But why He needs to do all this drama to give us happiness? Can’t He give us directly?

A: God does not do anything which is not his property. For example, He will never kill Himself and create a new God. Now soul has certain properties: it is conscious, exists but devoid of happiness. It can do nothing on its own. It is like a microprocessor which can function only when hooked to a power source and motherboard. Thus God creates this computer system aka universe so that the microprocessor aka soul can function and exhibit its powers to achieve happiness.

Q: How does this Law of Karma work

A: Refer the FAQ on Theory of Karma. But basically, soul has following 6 properties: Desire, Repulsion, Efforts, Happiness, Sorrow and Knowledge. The source of all these is the core Will-power and the goal is to achieve ultimate bliss. Now as and when the soul exercises its will as per its natural properties, it is able to exhibit these properties even better and move closer to the goal. But if it acts unnatural, the properties diminish in expression and it would move away from the goal. Thus based on its deeds, soul achieves different states of its quality called Chitta.

Now what God does is that depending upon the quality of the soul, it provides it an environment which is most conducive for it to exercise its will and move towards its goal. Thus Bliss is a function of Actions which is a function of Thoughts which is a function of Knowledge which is a function of Will-Power. The reverse is also true meaning that if actions are bad, they lead to diminished knowledge and hence skewed will-power. And when one does extremely bad deeds, God puts those souls in non-human species where they can no more exercise their will-power significantly. This is done to clean up the soul of garbage in its Chitta.

This process goes uninterrupted by death. Death is merely a short stop in the journey where you get down the vehicle and replenish yourself with food and water to start afresh.

Q: This is too much to understand in one go. Can you summarize?

OK. Here is the summary:

a. God, Soul and Nature (Prakriti) are three eternal entities that always existed and will always exist. This is the actual concept of ‘Trinity’.

b. God never creates or destroys souls or nature. He only acts as a Super Manager who brings Soul and Nature together so that souls can put efforts as per Law of Karma to achieve ultimate bliss.

c. Whatever is happening with us in our life is as per our own efforts till last moment. And we can change the course of our destiny through present and future efforts.

d. Death is never a final stop. It is just a short break after which journey continues unhindered.

e. When we say that God is creator, we mean that he brings souls and nature together to give them this non-random well-planned shape. He then maintains the universe to help the souls. Finally He destroys the universe and then again starts the process of creation. All this – creation, maintenance and destruction – continues to happen just like night and day continue to follow each other. There was never a time when this process did not exist nor shall there be a time when this process will cease. That is why He is called Brahma (Creator), Vishnu (Maintainer) and Pralaykarta (Destructor).

f. No property of God changes ever. So whatever He does at ALL times is for benefit of souls.

g. Souls have free-will. But that is subject to their knowledge which depends on their deeds. This forms the basis of Theory of Karma.

h. Put simply, God is always with us and he is always helping us. We need to simply follow the core will and attempt to accept truth and reject falsehood every moment. This act of truth-seeking is the natural property of soul and purpose of this universe. When we do so, we rapidly progress towards ultimate bliss.

So God never created us from nothingness. He however developed such a marvelous world for us to help us. And we can help fulfill our destiny and purpose of this creation through truth-seeking. This is the core message of Vedas and sole essence of life.

Q: One final Question – How does one ascertain that this also is not yet another creative theory and not the truth? Why should we believe you?

A: Several reasons:

a. Whatever has been said is as per Vedas – the oldest and unchanged texts. Refer the text below and you shall find several references and details.

b. This theory is intuitive and as per common observations in life. It does not talk of a miracle that needs to be accepted blindly. Law of Karma is seen working everywhere. You need not go far to test it. Simply become positive and cheerful and enthusiastic for 30 days, refuse to be negative, refuse to indulge in wrong acts and note down how whatever happens in life or you feel. You would find your level of bliss to be way higher in this small experiment. This theory is at least more plausible than things like theory of evolution which no one ever witnessed, or stories of miracles which no one ever saw.

c. Vedas do not even put a restriction that you need to believe in it blindly. However the action points that derive from this theory are such that every sensible person would agree – that accept truth and reject false to best of intentions. And perform good acts as mentioned in Vedic religion in brief.

Remember that Vedas have a very organic intuitive approach. There is no compulsion in believing. What Vedas say instead is that as and when you continue accepting truth and rejecting false to best of your intentions, things will automatically start becoming clearer.  So call it whatever if you are not convinced. But you would have to agree that there is no other theory which is more logical, intuitive as well as motivating than the theory that –

“God has always been and shall always protect us and nurture us and give us opportunities and work only for our benefit all the while giving respect to our free-will without deviating even a bit!”

The global bestseller “The Secret” merely scratched the surface of this marvelous theory and changed lives of many. Imagine what would be the potential of the complete theory!

This article is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/4633/why-did-god-create-us-hi/

 

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Comments

    • Jacob says

      Dear Brothers,

      One problem about the so called cycle and moksha.. now as we know human beings will go on reproducing right. So lets say at one point everybody attains moksha, then all the souls are in bliss. Then your telling me after every soul attains moksha and the souls escape the cycle of life then no matter how much of sex the remaining ones have they wont have a child because all the souls have attained moksha??? lets say all the people do good and be born as human what will happen to the animals, they would never reproduce and eventually extinct. and as we know this world is full of hate and corruption. then why is the earth still over populating. why dont every being be born as animals due to karma and the human beings get extinct.

      • Arya says

        @Brother Jacob
        There is no point where all souls are in Moksha because it is a two way process unlike eternal hell and heaven. At any time, souls going into Moksha are balanced by souls coming from Moksha. Also, life exists outside earth too. And souls as per their deeds, are sent to the places most suitable according to Law of Karma. So no animal-human matter comes into the picture.

      • says

        Dear Jacob,
        Sex can only be done in body form, not in soul form, soul is point of light which carries past karmic account with them. So after attainment of “MOKSHA”, it get rid of life cycles, and attain perfect peace, but for that you have to do efforts on earth.
        There are only two options before you — Either you do something here that make you special in front of almighty or you will not do nothing, get stuck with your ego. You to choose not God. If you does nothing, but as there is one of the nature of soul is “Desire” you will eventually desire for bad stuffs in life, not good for you as a soul. Why i am saying as soul because by soul nature you are divine.

        Regarding animals: human never gets animal, plant, or insect soul, they are entire separate entities and not comparable to humans. We can be born poor or rich according to the karmic account we have, but never will be born as animals. Humans are greatest souls that some one ever created(I am not saying God because God didn’t created Souls) He is the only benefactor of the souls, only the one who thinks solely about us no other can, on earth he didn’t send us alone, he gave us mother and father(Not only for taking care to grow up but also to guide us till we reach the age of about 40 or so.)

        So it is well said in every religion that feel proud to be human and behave like human, not animals. That will be good for all of as a soul.

        HARI OOM…….

    • says

      But I still don’t get it. I know I have not attained intellectual bliss but I would still want to know.
      There has to be a beginning and an end to everything, right ? But there has to be something before the beginning too. And something after the end. And if nobody created any of the three, as you say that we have always existed. Then why go through the trouble of existing in the first place ?
      And when you say that God manages us, it/he/she sounds like a physical body/thing, which is not what I understood from many readings about Vedas and even your blogs.

      • Akhila says

        Dear icam, If m ri8, u hv 2 doubts, 1. Whats d purpose of our existance and 2. How the God is.

        I m still in search of ans 4 1st que, bt 4 2nd one I can say u wat m convinced of.
        If u read the nasadiya sukta and purusha sukta of 10th mandal in toto, u ll find that the entire universe is the gigantic body of God. Again veda says jat pinde tat brahmande. So as atma is the life of our body, paramatma is the life of the universe. As the word i, it means the atma controling my body, by the word god it means paramatma. If you read the the treaties of sri shankaracharya on advityabad, u ll see the chemical composition of atma and paramatma is the same. It is a spirit like fire.

      • says

        Namaste Cantakeitnemore

        ————-I know I have not attained intellectual bliss but I would still want to know.————-

        Nobody can claim to attain intellectual bliss and we should not believe in someone doing it either. So we are all same here! So please come out of the guilt of not being intellectually blessed :)

        ————There has to be a beginning and an end to everything, right ?————-

        No. Not to everything. It applies only to those which need cause to happen. But anything that does not have further cause(s) is beyond this. To understand, matter/energy are uncreated and un-destroyed but the universe made of these has beginning and end. Because matter/energy is cause and universe is effect.

        So, cause has no beginning no end but effect has both! Cause remains before and after the effect.

        ———– But there has to be something before the beginning too. And something after the end.————-

        Yes, this is cause.

        ———– And if nobody created any of the three, as you say that we have always existed. Then why go through the trouble of existing in the first place ?————

        Actually one cant question his/her very existence because that leads to vanishing his question of existence itself :) (because to question, you have to exist!). I can try more but let me see if that suffices!

        ———–And when you say that God manages us, it/he/she sounds like a physical body/thing, which is not what I understood from many readings about Vedas and even your blogs.————

        Managing us only means providing us opportunities for Karma and conditions to have fruits of Karma of past. Its not that we are puppets of God.

        • says

          And why is there a cause ?
          “Actually one cant question his/her very existence because that leads to vanishing his question of existence itself (because to question, you have to exist!). I can try more but let me see if that suffices!”

          But why exist in the first place to question ?

          And I still don’t understand “the cause”. So it always existed. But where? Everything occupies space. We occupy space, so space must occupy space and so must that cause, right?
          Or could it be that the laws of physics/nature are not the same everywhere ? Or maybe our/human perception along with the present educational system is too based on what we have experienced till now and makes it difficult to understand/assimilate a (totally) new thing?

          But either way, I really want to understand it all. It really is a heartache not to be able to understand it.

          • says

            @Cantakeitnemore

            ———–And why is there a cause ?———–

            To me, there is no “why” for the ultimate cause. If something has “why” for it, it ceases to be cause and is called effect. So you cant ask “why cause”. In short, you can only ask “why” for the existence of those entities that have beginning and end but not those that are uncreated. A CAUSE DOES NOT REQUIRE FURTHER CAUSE JUST LIKE SUN DOES NOT REQUIRE ANOTHER SUN TO ILLUMINATE OR A PHOTON DOES NOT REQUIRE FURTHER PHOTONS TO GET ENERGIZED. Why space, why energy/matter, why cause, are, thus, fallacious questions.

            Another way to analyze it –

            Have you ever thought of the word “why”? Whom it addresses? There are two ways “why” can be used

            1. while discussing material cause (eg- why we need food- because our body requires energy to sustain)
            2. while discussing conscious cause (eg- why did creator create the universe- so that already existing souls can work)

            With first kind of cause, you also have to agree that there is no further material cause of matter/energy, space etc. So we are in agreement on 1. Now comes second, in which you have to have someone who is conscious (creator in above example) and responsible for some act/existence. There is no third way you can use “why”! Now I ask you- which “conscious entity” you are referring to while asking “why” in your question? To whom you are asking- “why existence”? If you cant manage to find this “conscious entity”, your question”why existence” is invalid.

            Since no one created the uncreated entities, asking “why” for them is not correct. There is no one to whom you can ask “why” or “why not” regarding existence of uncreated entities.

            Another way to look at it-

            “We exist”- is the REALITY and thus natural. “We dont exist” is pure fiction and thus unnatural. So if we dont like the idea of existence, we are acting/thinking unnatural!

          • says

            @Cantakeitnemore

            ———-I really want to understand it all.———–

            Dear friend! We can try to improve every moment but cant ever claim perfection. Its not that theory I propose is ultimate truth. It is as per my understanding and can be improved if challenged by a better theory. Same is the case with you. So better COMPARE the two theories (yours and mine) and try to find which one solves more puzzles and opt accordingly. We should not expect any theory to provide answers to all our queries but we should continue choosing BETTER one each time and that needs comparison. For comparison, you need to have your own model with which you can compare mine.

            So I suggest you to first ask yourself what do you think till now? What is the theory you have in your mind regarding existence and how does it address your questions? If you dont have any theory then build it up, that is must because without it you cant appreciate whether whatever I am saying is more/less logical and whether you should agree/disagree with me.

            ————It really is a heartache not to be able to understand it.————-

            Attitude of asking questions/seeking truth is greatest thing one can have! It is this attitude alone that has blessed this world with scientific discoveries and great philosophies. So no need to have heartache on it. Just keep it up!

          • says

            I must have a really thick head because I still don’t understand the cause. But I’ll keep looking for ways to understand. :) Maybe what I’m trying to know is, what if we never came into existence, not as the soul, but as humans. What then, is my question I guess.

            My theory ? Well, I would say I am split up between two. According to one there is a creator who always existed and it not in our CURRENT realm to understand how(can someone/something always exist). And that we should try and find out.
            Second as many people around me and all over the world say, its just random. We have no purpose but since we already are here why not make the best of it and have good morals, ethics and principles because they have been proven to provide true happiness.
            Though neither answers my questions totally, but the first one gives more sense to being. I can sometimes actually feel that there is something meaningful behind it all. It has to be. It can’t be just random. Even the smallest structures, look at the DNA for example are so well designed, they can’t just be there just like that (the watchmaker’s analogy).
            I am almost an agnostic theist, just like the Vedas.

          • says

            @cantakeitmore

            ———-I must have a really thick head because I still don’t understand the cause.———-

            No. Such topics need deep thought processes, its not the matter of one or two posts. However from our discussions you can ascertain that logically a cause has to be without cause. You can take time to digest it but this is what a more rational claim than otherwise.

            ———But I’ll keep looking for ways to understand. ———-

            Thats great! Cheers :)

            ———-what if we never came into existence, not as the soul, but as humans. What then, is my question I guess.————

            We actually never came into existence :) We were always there, no question of coming/going from/to anywhere! OK, if we would not exist then we two would have not been discussing on our existence! What else?

            ———-My theory ?———-

            I meant theory regarding existence! Why you think existence is pointless? Is it really you believe?

      • says

        Dear Cantakeitnemore,

        Yes we have always existed as a soul.
        No one knows the beginning, every religion has its own diff story.
        But I have answer to your Question that why should we bear the troubles of our own existence, its because if you do nothing then it will be more troublesome, For E.g. You have much work in office, boss also demands more, and you find yourself in trouble, but what if boss don’t give you any work, you only have to sit in office for 7-8 hours doing nothing, this will not be bearable by you after some span of time. Soul nature is to do effort, so for your sake God made earth, you can go their and have good life at first place “Golden Age”.

        God is also similar to souls, but with more qualities, in simple words he can control his birth or death.
        Many times God attain physical form ‘body’ and comes on earth. In all religion you will get that.
        I hope this will surely clear your doubts but i am also sure that more doubt will emerge from it, because questioning about God own existence is like asking hen came before or egg. So better stick to your efforts that will answer to all your questions.

        HARI OOM…….

    • Shreenath says

      Once a man who lived a sinful life wants to become a pious man. If he believe the law of Karma is truth, then what is the hope for him to become righteous since he is subjected for punishment for his past sins..

  1. Sunny Chawla says

    Vedic religion is very logical …

    Even Science says the same….Law of conservation of mass says,”Mass can neither be created nor be destroyed.”

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    • lalit says

      The soul takes birth after wandering around for 13 days, as per its karma. Secondly human beings are free to do any action , there is a free will . What if slowly and this may take lets say 10000 years , large number of people decide not to have a child. How would in that case god will manage to give the souls human body which they may deserve due to good karmas. THANKS

      • says

        Namaste

        1. This earth is not the only earth. There may be innumerable number of earths in this vast universe. So Ishwar has all the options to choose the best fit of environment for each soul. Further, Ishwar has option to maintain the right balance of variety of souls with differing natures in a particular earth as well.

        2. The theory of 13 days of wandering has no basis. This is perhaps a symbolic concept and there is no mention in any authoritative text on whether the wandering is for 13 nanoseconds or 13 days.

        3. Also be clear that Law of Karma does not mean that only birth is decided by previous acts. Its an ongoing law that acts even at this moment. So all our future situations are decided by whatever we do till this moment. Its a continuous process of meritocracy and not restricted to one off events like birth and death.

        Dhanyavad
        Agni

        • lalit says

          Yajurveda mantra 39/5 is that when the soul leaves the body then the soul wanders in so many places, takes another body according to its previous deeds (karmas). Yajurveda mantra 39/6 says that the soul after leaving the body, on the first day goes to Savita (sun), second day agnihi (fire), third Vaayu (normal air), fourth Aditya, fifth chandrma (moon), sixth ritu (seasons), seventh marutah, eighth brihaspati (tiniest air), ninth mitrah (breathing), tenth varunah (udan air), eleventh indrah (electricity), twelfth Vishvedevah (in all divine qualities). Then, after wandering in sky, gets body according to previous deeds. So these twelve days are completed, then after 13 days the soul takes another body.
          This information is from http://www.vedmandir.com where Swami Ramswaropji who is a vedic expert answers queries on various matters .

          • says

            Namaste

            The mantra is indeed there. But there is difference of opinion among scholars on whether they refer to 13 days or 13 different destinations. Further it is hard to deduce what the duration of each Ahan (word used in mantra that is interpreted to be day) relative to human day. That is why there is no assertive way to predict exact duration of the time that soul spends outside the physical body. Also the words Savita, Agni etc do not refer to physical entities as understood by us in common terms.

            This is a subject demanding contemplative exploration and hence accepting any particular interpretation as final would be premature.

            But what is very clear is that after death, soul again takes birth after some time as per its deeds and continues the journey.

            Dhanyavad

  3. Prashanth says

    This article is the best I have ever read. Unquestionable, simple, truth right to the bottom. Nothing else needs to be said.

  4. RAHUL SOMAN says

    This article speaks of real fact and is well supported by scientific theories .Lets our Non Hindu brothers also under stand this ,other than running there life for so called HEAVEN

  5. Ram says

    Agniveerji, the 2 main other religions beleive that death is the end of all of it. I think the most different concept in Vedic religion is that the soul is eternal and the Life-Death_life sycle continues.
    So if someone argues all religions preach the same, they have to understand this basic difference before they equate all of them together.
    Excellent post. Every common man in this world is having these fundamental questions in his mind and you have put the answer here.

  6. OneWhoThinks says

    God has created us to curse other religions….he…he…he…he…..
    God has created to see whats there outside and comment on them….
    God has created to ill treat others….

    Poya…poyi velaya paarungayyaa….Punnaakku maadanungala….

    Puththi solluraanungalaam…poppaaaa…..

  7. OneWhoThinks says

    If God, Nature and Soul are eternal entities….

    What an eternal entity means….???

    Appappaaa…….Mind blowing thinking…..

    Then why God needs man to give birth and death….

    Why he needs soul and nature combine together to create….????

    My mind is hampering……theory is too much complex…..

    Why everyone can’t be God….Nature is God…..God is God…..God is nature…Soul is God…Soul is also nature….

    Trinity….makes……Thirtynities…………….

    Mudiyalapppaaaa….pongayyaaa……vera velaya paaarungayyaaaa…..

    • Proud to be A Kafir says

      @OneWhoThinks

      This is the problem when people go for too much of Nagaraj & Super Commando Dhruv Comics (read: Bible & Quran) ! They stop comprehending logical things !!

      • OneWhoThinks says

        Seee…..your soul is eternal….your body is nature….so it is also eternal…..

        now two eternal combine together makes a non-eternal….

        how come this is possible…….????

        that means…..logical + logical = illogical which is equal to non-sense…..

        finally the concept is all about non-sense……nothing else other than that…..

        how come others see it as…..very great concept…..i dont know…..

        Atleast think yaar…….u ll also get….or else ask ur one more eternal….God to reply to ur eternal Soul and Nature………

        I am not bound to any religion…..so reading Bible and Quran doesn’t makes sense…..

        I am quoting the things given above….

        Let’s speak on that….

        • Indian Agnostic says

          @OneWhoThinksHeThinks

          The fundamental flaw in your logic is the premise that “body is Nature”..how did you concoct that premise?

          @Agniveer ..Great Article!

          One Question though ..your proposition of ‘eternalness of souls’ would render ‘liberation’ of soul impossible ..am i correct?

          • OneWhoThinks says

            @ Indian Agnoustic

            Then wat u ll call the body as…..I dont know what u r coming to say….think yaar….think….

            Be wise to answer……or pose questions….

            If u r wise….answer whether body is eternal or not……if it is eternal…..then my logic is correct… if it is not eternal…..then tell me what u ll call the body as Artificial ah???? :D

            Don’t make fun….Premise…..????

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Dear @OneWhoThinksWrong,

            now you come with another gem ..’body is eternal’ ! ..there’s no end to your mental onanism

            every-thing in this universe is subject to change..your body is also a ‘thing’ ..hence it is not eternal

            but YOU my friend ..who is falsely presuming himself to be his body ..are eternal

            and the good news is that YOU (minus your body) will not remain eternally confused as you are right now :)

          • OneWhoThinks says

            @Indian Agnoustic:

            Thanks for your clarification….

            Body is made up of nature….Nature is eternal….Hence Body also should be eternal… as Subset is a subset of Universal set….it possess the qualities of the Whole set in addition to that it may possess other qualities…..

            In this case….if Body is made up of nature….Body is a subset of eternal entity ‘Nature’…

            Since u call it as eternal entity….Bady should be eternal…..

            My theory is correct….which is not mental onanism…..Think logically before answering my brother….

            Now answer my question….how come eternal + eternal = non-eternal……….

            again…logical+logical = illogical which is weird non-sense….sorry to say this again…but anyhow i need to say this…since theories are subject to clarification…worst than this….

          • Arya says

            @One who thinks
            Body is made up of nature but both cant be said to be identical. Just like a door is made up of wood but it is not called as wood. Here wood is the material cause and door is the creation. Similar way, nature is material cause and universe is the creation. Nature here can be given more correct term “Prakriti”, which is the smallest form of matter as per Darshans.

            The ultimate material cause of all is “Prakriti” and hence it is uncreated since there cant be no cause to the ultimate cause! However, universe, which is a creation, is not eternal because it is created (using Prakriti) and will be perished some day because every creation has an end. So universe and thus our bodies are not eternal however the ultimate cause “Prakriti” is eternal.

            Please check your logic which says that door is wood and wood is tree thus door is tree!

          • OneWhoThinks says

            @ Arya:

            You are saying one logic, @ Indian Agnostic says another logic….

            I am not able to summarize or consolidate both of them….

            Can @AgniVeer be able to consolidate…..I dont know…..

            still my mind is hampering….

          • Arya says

            @Onewhothinks
            Different logic need not be contradictory brother. Please specify, where do you feel unsatisfied? Even if we have some differences on the philosophical levels, it is sign of intellectuals and a matter of pride for us. We all are truth seekers and have vowed to accept the truth and reject the falsehood. We will accept most logical and satisfactory theory, be it from anyone!

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @OneWhoThinksHeThought

            Bro ..I had not seen brother arya’s response to you.

            as far as your query is concerned..we have given the same answer …and that is to NOT confuse Nature (Prakriti) with Nature’s creations.

            @Arya provides the example of wood and door to make it easy for you to understand
            i provided you with riddles so that i could trigger your thinking

            that’s the only difference that i see, as far as response to you is concerned.

            I and @Arya are also discussing beyond what you are asking..so don;t get confused between these two lines of thought

            think :)

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @OneWhoThinksOtherwise

            Bro ..you are getting confused between “Nature’s ways” and “Nature’s creations”

            Not your Fault actually as the original word in sanskrit is prakriti (and roughly translating it to Nature causes confusion , as is happening in your case)

            prakriti means the ‘creative force’ ( pra = to bring forth, kriti=creation)

            Body is NOT a subset of Nature but a PRODUCT of Nature( “Nature’s creative force” to be precise)

            as such the body is a vikriti ( change) brought about by ‘creative force’ prakriti

            does that resolve your doubts?

            Regards

          • OneWhoThinks says

            Theory is again twisting……

            If Body is the products of Nature, then What are the products of God and Soul …???

          • Arya says

            @Onewhothinks
            Product is obtained by adjoining or disjointing something. It is just “Prakriti”, which has such qualities and not God and souls.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @OneWhoThinks

            Now indeed …you bring up a question on which I and brother Arya may have different opinions.

            But i will stick to the context and domain of the article(so as to not confuse you further)

            Think about this Universe ..it is full of action … ever changing action

            The one who creates the environment for action is Prakriti

            The one who lays down the rules of action (the laws) is God

            the one who acts is the Soul

            does this help?

          • smital says

            @onewhothinks:

            u thnk body is eternal ha ha ha ha………lol ur funny…….. do u know the meaning of eternal…….. what happens to body after ur dead??????? think think………u ll need 100 yrs for that i guess hi hi hi till ur time comes i mean to die ull get it i guess hi hi……….. but still body is eternal lol lol lol hi hi sorry cant stop it……….

          • Arya says

            @Indian Agnostic
            Brother it wont. “Liberation of souls” demands existence of soul even after liberation otherwise it would be destruction of soul in place of liberation!

            Hope this is what you were pointing to.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            Thanks for the clarification.

            if the soul gets liberated eternally and is not merged into any of the three entities (jiva / prakriti / Ishvara ) then it becomes a fourth entity altogether

            Does the Veda speak of a fourth eternal entity ?

          • Arya says

            @Indian Agnostic
            Brother, Jeev (also called as Aatma) and soul are same. So there are only three eternal entities. And the liberation is not eternal, rather it is for a very long time and then Jeev again comes back in action and again tries for liberation. This cycle of Bandhan and Mukti has no starting and has no end.

            Hope to continue with this discussion.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            as per my understanding Jeev is the Aatman bound to a body so that it could exhaust it’s karma

            when all karma is exhausted , the Body ,which is just an agent of action (karma) . is no longer needed and what remains is the Aaatman that is mukt

            first..is this the correct understanding?

            second ..from your response i gather that Mukti in the true sense is impossible..It’s just mukti until pralaya.am i right?

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic
            1. Terminologies should not matter much here. As per Vedas, Jeev and Aatma are synonymous. But even if we take Jeev to be Aatma+body, it is to be understood that Jeev is not eternal then (since body is not eternal). Still the eternal entities are three (Aatma, Eeshvar, and Prakriti).

            And you perfectly said that body is just an agent of action.

            2. Brother, we should always remember that Mukti is always relative to Bandhan. As day and night, joy and sorrow, etc. Swami Dayanand has given few logic that why cant an everlasting Mukti be an actual Mukti!

            i) If Mukti is endless, it has to be without beginning as well! Nobody in this world can give an example of something which had starting but not end or vice versa! If Mukti were to be endless, we would have already been in the state of Mukti.

            ii) Mukti and Bandhan need to be alternative otherwise taste of Mukti would be of no joy after a sufficient amount of time (one might have different levels of sufficient time though). It is just like without tasting salty, we cant enjoy sweet. If we continue to take sweet forever, it wont be the cause of our joy anymore.

            iii) Aatma is Alpagya and has limited capacities and thus has done limited deeds. How can he get unlimited result for limited deeds?

            iv) It is impossible for a finite entity to bear infinite joy or sorrow.

            v) If Mukti is everlasting, Aatma will not have choice to act as per his free will (Purushaartha) anymore, which is a kind of Bandhan again!

            And time for the Mukti is said to be the time equivalent to 36000 times the creation and destruction of Srishti. Its not just one Pralay as per Vedas.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            I am finding it difficult to believe that an eternal entity can be eternally limited(as you say that the Atman is limited)

            that is the reason i adhere to the concept of the Jeev which is nothing but the entity that believes it is the body..and the moment it realizes that it is not the body, mind or intellect ..it becomes mukt …it become Aatman.

            can you please resolve this doubt ?

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic

            First of all, I want to say that “limitation” is not a weakness, rather it is just a property possessed by soul, which, in fact makes it happy. God, being perfect and unlimited, cant feel happiness because joy and sorrow are irrelevant for Him!

            Now comes the difficulty of eternal entity becoming eternally limited. Can we say same for “Prakriti” too? Can we say that “Prakriti” will become conscious some day since, being eternal, it cant remain eternally unconscious? What I want to say is that nature/habit/qualities which is called “Swabhaav or Guna”, do not change. “Swabhaav” itself means something which is possessed by one, all the times. If anyone says that “X” has left its “Swabhaav”, it ceases to be “X” at the very instant.

            OK. Brother, please think over word “it”, which you have used in

            “Jeev which is nothing but the entity that believes it is the body..and the moment it realizes that it is not the body, mind or intellect ..it becomes mukt …it become Aatman.”

            This entity “it” seems one however its state has been changed. We can at the most say that this entity “it”, which was realizing body to be self in a state called “Jeev”, has now become knowledgeable and this state is “Aatman”. But the entity “it”, existed before and now as well. Now we look whether “limitation” is its Swabhaav or not. As per your theory, limited Jeev becomes unlimited Aatman. As soon as Swabhaav of “it” changed from limited to unlimited, it ceases to be “it” and we fail to say that “it” is Mukt, because there is nothing like “it” existing now! It is actually vanishing of “it” rather than its “Mukti”!

            Please continue with it, I am learning a lot with this discussion.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            Thanks for the wonderful explanation and highlighting the fact that SWABHAV should not be looked as a SHORTCOMING.

            I completely agree with that.

            But the question around “it” still remains.For this i use an example oft quoted by others

            suppose there is a silver coin ..it is round in shape.

            if i change “it’s” shape to square …does “it” become unidentifiable?

            ..and the answer as we know is NO ..we can still say that “it” is still silver.

            the change of state..has not created a change in the substance..isnt it?

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic

            In the coin example, if “it” is “silver” then of course a square or in fact even an atom of sliver will be called as “it”. But if I say that “it” is “a disc shaped silver coin”, a square shaped silver coin can not be called as “it” because in this case, shape along with material is deciding the Swabhaav of “it”.

            In case of Jeev and Aatman, lets define “it” and its Swabhaav i.e. the criteria of being “it”. I request you to define “it” and its Swabhaav in this case. One more thing is that in any case, this “it” should possess its Swabhaav. Now consider the case when “it” is in the state of ignorance, it is limited, I think you accept that (please tell me if otherwise). “To be limited” is Swabhaav of “it” in this state. Now if, “it” has to exist in any state other than this one, it should possess its Swabhaav there too. Any change in its Swabhaav (like limitation), will make “it” to be non existing. Limitation, which is the Swabhaav of “it” in its first stage should also be possessed by “it” in Mukti otherwise you will not be able to call this as Mukti of “it”.

            Waiting for your views brother..

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            that’s an important question you raise…what is the swabhaav (or Swaroop lakshana) or intrinsic nature of Jeev.

            Since we all are Jeevas it’s not very difficult to analyze our swaroopa lakshana

            we yearn for happiness ..so happiness must be our intrinsic nature (it’s another matter that our actions may or may not deliver the intended results in life)

            we yearn for knowledge of everything ( must be another aspect of our swabhava)

            we don’t want to die ( we want immortality…) hence this could be the third swabhso it boils down to Sat-Chit-Ananda ( eternal-all knowing- blissful).

            So “it’s” swabhava is essentially to be ever happy, ever knowing and ever alive

            when “it” is under the influence of prakriti ..it deviates from it’s swabhava and is called Jeev

            when “it” realizes the game that prakriti plays on the body-mind-intellect ..”it” becomes Atman..the eternally alive,blissful and knowledgeable entity.

            are we in agreement?

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic

            “we yearn for happiness ..so happiness must be our intrinsic nature”

            Brother here is the difference. What we desire is not our Swaroopa. In fact we desire what we dont have. I like sweet because it is different from me. If it were same, I could have not recognized even its taste. What I am trying to say is that affinity towards something is an indication of our distinction from it rather than oneness with it. Can our eye see itself? Do we ever desire it? No. There are two things in this world, one who sees and one which is seen. And both are different. Similarly we find two entities in the world, one looking for happiness, which is Jeev and other one, which possesses happiness, who must be different from Jeev.

            If happiness would be the property of Jeev, it could have never felt sorrow, but its not that. Even if we say that its due to Avidya, then question comes, is Avidya a property (Swabhaav) of Jeev or not? If yes, it cant be overcome unless someone else (possessor of Vidya, whom we call Eeshvar), who is different entity altogether, is there to help us. If no, then question comes, why are we in Avidya? Who possesses this property called “Avidya” when there is no one except Brahm?

            Another thing, when Brahm was always Mukt, how could He get trapped in “Avidya”? And why is it said that Aatman is liberated eternally? Cant it again come under the influence of Avidya? If Jeev was uncreated and always remained under the influence of Avidya, it can never get Mukti because whatever have been the situations till now from the infinite time, same will continue till eternity. In any case, we need to believe in a separate entity Eeshvar, who helps Jeev get out of this Bandhan.

            Brother, what Vedas believe (as interpreted by Swami Dayanand) is that Eeshvar, Aatma, and Prakriti are eternal (without beginning without end). Out of which, Eeshvar and Aatma are conscious. Eeshvar is blissful, knowledgeable, mighty, just, pure etc. We, Aatma, in the cycle of birth and death, act as per our free will which is necessary for Aatma for being responsible for its acts. Eeshvar, being omnipresent, is there in us, inspiring everyone to follow His path to achieve Moksha. We search for knowledge and bliss because it is possessed by the One who is very near to us but we fail to trace it perfectly because of Avidya caused by our bad deeds.

            As soon as Aatma starts doing deeds required for Moksha (Yam, Niyam etc), the layer of Avidya starts getting thinner and thinner and we start getting more and more knowledge and bliss. And gradually time comes when we attain Moksha, i.e. the state of such a purity that we and Eeshvar have no layers of Avidya in between and we are filled with ultimate bliss of our Lord. But in this whole process, we and Eeshvar remain different. He is giver, we are taker. If someone says that taker becomes giver, its not right. Swabhaav of giver and taker never change. Even in Mukti, giver is giver and taker is taker. I think this is the essence of Mukti that we enjoy the bliss rather than getting transformed to something else, who is beyond the scope of enjoying the happiness.

            I have given in short what I could understand till now. Please question anything which you feel can be.

            We are anyway in agreement on most important thing, which is accepting truth and rejecting falsehood! Really enjoying discussion brother…

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            First of all, thanks a lot for providing the Vedic exposition by Swami Dayanand Ji in such a precise and compact manner…it’s beautiful!

            I would again say that the swaroopa lakshana is indeed happiness, knowledge and immortality.

            Nobody has to teach us to look for happiness and knowledge and safety ..it’s our swabhava

            Joy and sorrow , pleasure and pain , achievement and loss are just transient results that follow when the Jeev is involved in action….but what drives his action is his swaroopa lakshana only.

            In search of happiness at the wrong places we invite pain and sorrow ..but this does not mean that our lakshana is not the search for happiness..isn’t it?

            this is clearly evident from the fact that no matter what amout of pain and sorrow befalls us ..the HOPE for happiness in future is always burning within us ..it’s our intrinsic nature ..we cannot avoid it.

            brother, I will need your concurrence on this fact before i proceed further

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic

            Brother looking for happiness is indeed our instinct (Swabhaav) but there must be the difference between the one who is looking for happiness from the one who is the source of happiness. Thirst and water are two different things. I am thirsty because I need water but I dont have it.

            You say that Swaroop of Jeev is happiness and knowledge. Then question comes from when? Swabhaav or Swaroop, should be there from when the possessor exists. Now comes whether Jeev was ever created? If yes, there must be a creator and some material cause with which, it is created. I think you dont believe jeev as a created one. Now take second case when Jeev is there from beginningless time. So already infinite time has been gone with Jeev in this very state of Avidya. Mathematically speaking, if an event has not occurred in infinite time (from beginningless to now), its probability of occurring in future as well is absolute zero. So either everyone has achieved Mukti already (which is not the case), or Mukti of Jeev is impossible.

            Either we have to accept that Jeev is some entity, which comes under the influence of Avidya again and again and gets Mukti after each Bandhan, then this is what I believe! If we dont accept it, Mukti is impossible. Brother, just think over the concept of infinity in past as well. If we are sure of achieving Mukti from now in some finite time, why could not we achieve Mukti infinite times back? How can an event, which did not occur in infinite past, occur in finite future?

            And if Jeev lies in the cycle of Bandhan and Mukti from beginningless time and will go to eternity this very way, any of the one i.e. Bandhan (sorrow) or Mukti (joy) cant be the Swaroop of Jeev since it is not always with Jeev. But urge to search for happiness and knowledge and doing Purushaarth is always there and thus it is Jeev’s Swabhaav.

            Hope this time it was more clear than previous

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            actually, It’s not the Jeev that is eternal..it’s the atman that is eternal.

            Jeev is a reflection of the Atman in the mind-body-intellect complex.

            and it’s the Ataman’s swabhav to be knowledge, immortal and blissful.

            Jeeva’s swabhav , as you correctly point out is Avidya ..which is nothing but a layer projected by prakriti on the Atman itself

            Also, ignorance is always beginning-less…but it is not endless.

            an example would be our beginningless ignorance about the fact that the earth is round ..but that ignorance has ended ..isn;t it? ..so it’s not only mathematically but practically possible

            so it’s the Jeev who under the influence of it’s BMI (Ego) starts searching for it’s parent swabhavas of knowledge,bliss and immortality externally rather than look inwards

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic

            Brother I think any entity which is “without end” should also be “without beginning” and vice versa. We dont have examples from the real world which prove otherwise. We cant have a line with just one end, a river with just one bank etc.

            You wrote- “Jeev is a reflection of the Aatman in the mind-body-intellect complex”

            Brother, I ask you, who sees this reflection? Again, the Jeev! But philosophically, viewer should be different from the one which is viewed.

            What I could understand till now is that you believe that “Jeev”, with its “Swabhaav” Avidya, has been there from beginningless time but some time from now, this “Jeev” will come out of Avidya and will be transformed to Aatman and then this Aatman will survive for eternity.

            There are some questions which come into the mind after accepting so-

            1. If Avidya is “Swabhaav” of Jeev, how will Jeev give it up some day when there is no one to help him in doing so? If you say that Aatman has its intrinsic nature to come out of Avidya and this instinct is more powerful than the effect of Avidya (it should be otherwise Mukti is impossible) then it proves that even after putting positive efforts from infinite time (since Jeev is beginningless), Jeev has not become Mukt. Then it is practically impossible to achieve Mukti in finite future.

            2. In your “earth is round” example, we cant say that we did not know it from beginningless time. Beginningless ignorance needs beginningless possessor of it and when earth itself is not beginningless, how can someone be ignorant about it from beginningless time?

            3. Jeev = Aatman + Avidya (+ sign is just a function which maps an object (Aatman) to its reflection (Jeev) in a reflected frame)

            Am I right? Please let me know if its wrong. If it is right then question comes, how many beginningless entities we believe in? If we only believe in one, we cant explain any change happening around. So at least two entities, Aatman and Prakriti (possessor of Avidya) have to be accepted as beginningless.

            Now you say that Jeev, which is nothing but (Aatman+Avidya), has not become Mukt till now. If we say that Swabhaav of Aatman is to try for Mukti then it should have achieved it till now because already infinite time has been passed. Brother, this is the concept of infinity. Any event which has not occurred in infinite time till now, will not occur in finite future as well. Or, one should accept that Bandhan and Mukti are alternative and we have been Mukt in past infinite number of times after alternative states of Bandhan.

            You wrote- “Jeev who under the influence of it’s BMI (Ego) starts searching for it’s parent swabhavas of knowledge,bliss and immortality”

            Brother, please think whether you can use “start” for something which itself is without start? Should not searching for its paternal Swabhaav be also beginningless? And if effort is beginningless (from infinite time) and still Mukti is not achieved, how can I get assured of getting Mukti in finite future?

            I am sorry for the repetition of one point again and again brother. But it is the only thing that is coming to my mind from all directions. Brother, lets have a close look at both the theories and see which one answers more questions in most satisfactory manner. I request you to pose questions on the theory which I believe in, so that we can know about the limits of our theories and accordingly we can modify those.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Brother Arya,

            In my opinion, Ignorance is always beginning-less BUT not necessarily endless.

            ok the earth example was not a perfect one ..here’s another to bring out the point ..the ignorance of vedas is again beginning-less..but it can surely end ..isnt it?

            But, i agree to your proposition that i should be first questioning my doubts about your theory rather than complicating this by contrasting it with another one.

            So here are my questions on your theory:

            1. If there indeed is a creator outside creation …who created the creator and more importantly who created the “outside of creation” for the creator to reside .

            2. An act of creation has to happen in space-time ..thus the creator will also get bound by space-time

            but for the creator to be beginning-less he has to be outside the bounds of space-time.

            how do you resolve this contradiction.

            3. Even with the help of science we know now that the existence of matter is nothing in absence of an observer..this indicates that from a higher truth perspective ..matter actually does not exist!!

            The question ” where did the material to create the world come from” is thus invalid…why does your theory ask this question at all..when it is known that there is actually no ‘matter’ as such in entire creation!?

            brother, i may have misunderstood the theory and hence would request you to clear these doubts before i ask further

          • Arya says

            Brother Indian Agnostic,

            I try to give my views on your questions

            1. Eeshvar is omnipresent. So there is no place where He, the creator does not exist. Creator, who is the ultimate cause of all the creation, needs to be uncreated.

            2. Creator will get bound in space time only if this creation were His first one. But actually, this is a cycle of creation and destruction which is there from beginningless time and go till eternity. So “to create” and “to destruct” are His “Swabhaav” from infinite time, and He never changes His Swabhaav by suddenly stopping any of these or both.

            3. Brother, this is rather a philosophical issue than scientific. Science talks of observers only when it talks about relativity! And about matter, conservation of energy is the fundamental law, which says that Energy is never created. However, talking of existence or absence of something itself needs an observer and above all, this concept of “absence of an observer” is itself meaningless if someone is not there to observe the absence!

            Swami Dayanand, while analyzing the claims of “Shoonyavaad”, says that observer of Zero has to be different from Zero! This is the biggest proof that observer and the one which is observed, both exist.

            Brother, I request you to explain, what do you mean by “ignorance of Vedas” as I could not understand it. In my theory, Vedas stand for eternal knowledge possessed by eternal Eeshvar. Hope you will clarify the status of Vedas in your theory, which I feel, is different from mine.

          • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

            Amazing exchange of thought streams.. but what is so complicated here, if the observer and the observed are different then i ask are they really different (atman and Parmatman) or is it becasue the jeev has not realized that swabhaav of the atman ..? and when its realized that is Mukti.. but of who? May be Nirvan would be a better term..and i agree with “Indian Agnostic” on the categorization of the urge to find or be in our True state of existence which is happiness,bliss and being eternal.
            Anyways, I an new to the brotherhood and Agniveer Rocks…

        • Chytu says

          @OneWhoThinks

          Bosy is nature. After death too, body will manifest itself as a different form of nature. And similarly, Soul also manifests itself as another form. I think that answers your question…

        • Arya says

          @One who thinks
          Body is made up of nature but both cant be said to be identical. Just like a door is made up of wood but it is not called as wood. Here wood is the material cause and door is the creation. Similar way, nature is material cause and universe is the creation. Nature here can be given more correct term “Prakriti”, which is the smallest form of matter as per Darshans.

          The ultimate material cause of all is “Prakriti” and hence it is uncreated since there cant be no cause to the ultimate cause! However, universe, which is a creation, is not eternal because it is created (using Prakriti) and will be perished some day because every creation has an end. So universe and thus our bodies are not eternal however the ultimate cause “Prakriti” is eternal.

          Please check your logic which says that door is wood and wood is tree thus door is tree!

        • smital says

          @onewhothings

          who is this idiot????? guess hee doesnt understand any thing………even after very clearly stating n answering all the possible questions he seems not to understand…..n only try to make a joke out of it which he is dyingly trying to do bt still is not able to hi hi…….idiot…….

    • Arya says

      @One who thinks

      Q 1. What an eternal entity means….???
      A 1. Eternal means without beginning and without end with respect to time. In other words uncreated and imperishable.

      Q 2. Then why God needs man to give birth and death….Why he needs soul and nature combine together to create….????
      A 2. It is God’s nature that He wants every soul to be happy. Soul has nature that it will become happy only when it gets chance to think and act and body is required to act. This is why God creates this whole universe and our bodies.

      Q 3. Why everyone can’t be God….Nature is God…..God is God…..God is nature…Soul is God…Soul is also nature….
      A 3. Mere coexistence does not make two entities identical.

      • OneWhoThinks says

        Thanks @ Arya…

        Now answer the below list of questions….

        Thoery: God, Soul and Nature are eternal….

        Assume Soul is eternal…..

        1. A man can kill himself…..that means…suicide is allowed…since soul can again born in someother earth…as if the soul wishes…

        2. A man can kill another man….since there is no loss in it….as the soul can be born into another….

        Hence both killing and suicide are allowed…..is it so…????

        Assume Soul and Nature is eternal….

        1. Nature can kill the humans…since Soul and Nature are eternal…which is nonsense..??? as per my views…means…Nature can separate the body and soul….by means of calamities….

        Assume God, Nature and Soul are eternal…

        1. God can kill humans by natural death…..which is non-sense….which i meant to object…every human needs to be eternal….which is not possible…

        Other questions:
        1. Why Soul needs to praise God…….???
        2. Why God needs to be there…..since he has no work other than maintaining us…??
        3. Why he can’t create us perfect….so that there is no way of maintenance…..???
        4. Why we can’t survive as Soul…..why Nature plays a role there….which is killing the people by Natural calamities…..???

        Can you please answer the above….since i am having lot of such questions like this….

        • Arya says

          @One who thinks
          Brother, I ask you, will you waste water just because it is recycled through water cycle? Will you throw your money on streets just because it will anyway exist, no matter somewhere else? If yes, I suggest you not to do that! Just because wise do everything for a purpose. If any act is done without purpose, it is foolish. And if something is wasted just because it will anyway exist, it has no purpose behind it. Rather this is a sin, which has caused many people trouble.

          Killing and suicide, which you mentioned above, are thus immoral due to above reasons.

          I wrote in my earlier comment that it is better if we use “Prakriti” instead of Nature to define the ultimate material cause of this universe. “Prakriti” is the smallest form of matter which cant further be divided. It is eternal. However anything made up of “Prakriti” is not eternal just because it is the effect and not the cause. And effect comes after cause. Please understand that “Nature” used in our discussion or in article just meant the smallest unit of matter (Prakriti). Hope this will help.

          Calamities are effects and thus are not “Nature”.

          And it is not right to tag something as natural or unnatural death. Human is not eternal and needs to be created. Your logic has a flaw. Lets take soil, it is uncreated say (not created by humans). Now I make a disc out of it. Will you say disc to be also uncreated? Think over it.

          Answers to other questions

          A1. For its own benefit. Remembering God’s qualities helps one get out of arrogance.
          A2. You yourself gave the answer. To maintain! To create and destruct the universe again and again to help us getting Moksha.
          A3. He has not created us. God, being perfect, does not do anything against His nature (here I mean habits). He creates universe just because we are imperfect and we need help!
          A4. Every entity has its own nature (habits or “Swabhaav”) and noone can change it. We cant act without body and thus need it. And action is needed to achieve Moksha, the prime goal of us.

          You are welcome with your questions brother!

          • OneWhoThinks says

            Thanks to ur answers @ Arya,

            As you quoted, “And it is not right to tag something as natural or unnatural death. Human is not eternal and needs to be created. Your logic has a flaw. Lets take soil, it is uncreated say (not created by humans). Now I make a disc out of it. Will you say disc to be also uncreated??”

            Wats this yaar…??? I am saying both are created (not the matter of context)….u r saying not created by me….I dont know what u r trying to convince me with these points…????

            As you quoted again, “A2. You yourself gave the answer. To maintain! To create and destruct the universe again and again to help us getting Moksha.”

            I asked as per your theory, “2. Why God needs to be there…..since he has no work other than maintaining us…??” Please answer within the context of ur theory….

            Why God can’t create us perfect??? —
            If I ask this, then u ll say….he didn’t created us…then u ll say he is maintaining us…..The preliminary question is simple….Why he needs to maintain us????

            BTW What is Moksha??? Why do i need that yaar….??? Dont say the answers as though u r standing in a Circle and looking at the other end….

            I am saying, “I already attain Moksha…”. Can u prove that….How ll u identify that….???

            Is he a dobi???…..cleaning some other clothes to make it clean…..????

            See…you have taken a picture and describing the portions as though you have drawn it…

            There could be so many views….describing a picture drawn by other guys….thats how the theory looks like….

            Did God anywhere mentioned to u….I am the person who is maintaining it….???

            Please reply these question…

          • Arya says

            @One who thinks
            I just meant you need creator for creation but dont need creator for the ultimate cause. You wrote- “I am saying both are created…”
            Where did you say so? Please put your theory on the desk as well so that we can compare the two. Unless you do that, dont argue on what you believe or think.

            A2 was sufficient. Eeshvar is creator and maintainer of universe. And also takes care of souls.

            God needs to be there because creator is needed for creating universe and thus our bodies, through which we act and get Moksha.

            By maintaining, I mean managing this universe and our bodies to provide us opportunities to act and get bliss.

            Moksha is liberation of you, the soul from this cycle of birth and death and all pains.

            I am no one to identify one as a Mukt (who has attained Moksha). But I am sure that anyone bound within the boundaries of bodies, suffering from diseaeses is not Mukt.

            You can call your mother a dhobi, who cleans your clothes and even you in your childhood!

            Its not my claim that my theory is perfect. We are in search of truth and to best of our knowledge, this is the best till now. You provide me a better one, I will accept that.

            Regards

          • OneWhoThinks says

            Thanks @Arya

            Mother is not dobi…as far as she cleans her child clothes…..if she cleans other child clothes….then she is called as dobi….

            here Mother has a relationship with the child….No where I am seeing a relationship of God with the Soul…..Those are two independent entity…..

            Why one is dominating over other…..??? Why God entity has to manage the Soul and Nature entity…

            To put in very simple words, Who is the owner of the Whole universe…???

            I didn’t say that, I have a theory…if u r wise enough u could have understood, what i tried to mention over there……

            As you said, “Its not my claim that my theory is perfect. We are in search of truth and to best of our knowledge, this is the best till now.” — seems like u r dynamic and can change to any theory at any point of time…..

            Then why you are posing this theory itself…..??????

            See…that every theory has its own negatives and positives when it comes across the evolution of species…you can’t oppose any other theory b’coz of your theory is correct. there is no way to prove…any other theory is correct or not….

            The only way to prove is to show a person who attained really Moksha before us…

            Brother :) ….I am also in the search of truth only…thats why we are arguing in this way….

            BTW…u seem to be opposing other theories also in your context to prove your theory is correct…thats not needed…

            There is a theory called “Survival of the fittest”…thats what you are following to prove your theory as Right!!!

            Now you believe that your theory is correct…follow that…lets see…whether u attain Moksha or not…or Moksha itself is there or not…..

            Till then…do good things…do smart things….don’t dominate others…let other souls which believe the other theories are correct…live happily…

          • Arya says

            @One who thinks
            Eeshvar is mother to us all, take it that way.

            Mother and son are also independent entities. However they have the relation of love and of course mother is the material cause of child. Same way, Eeshvar is the creator of all and thus can be said as our mother.

            There is no domination of one over another. One is asking for help (needy soul), one is there to help (giver Eeshvar), one is through which this interaction takes place.

            By owner, if you mean controller and manager, I would say God. But if you mean something else, please specify.

            I have just put forth what I think now. Anyone with better explanations is welcome.

            A human can never claim his/her thinking to be absolute. And this is what makes people interested in search of more satisfying explanations. However denying any theory which is more rational than yours just because it is not perfect should not be the approach of a truth seeker. Lets discuss both theories and decide which satisfies us more!

            If you want to discuss purpose of this creation you are welcome. Give your views and discussion over it. But mocking something without knowing it is not what is expected from a seeker after truth.

            Survival of the fittest alone is not what I believe in. Rather I believe, in addition, in making everyone fittest to help everyone to be able to survive!

            You wrote in the end

            “let other souls which believe the other theories are correct”

            Can I ask you, why then you came here and questioned our theory?

            And why are you shying away from giving your theory? Is it because of its evolution, which is still happening or you dont want to dominate us by giving it?

            Regards

          • OneWhoThinks says

            Thanks @ Arya

            Did I say anywhere….I have a theory….

            You have quoted, “Survival of the fittest alone is not what I believe in. Rather I believe, in addition, in making everyone fittest to help everyone to be able to survive!”

            As per your theory, God is the only person who is doing this task…..why you started helping everyone to survive….I don’t know…

            Questioning and comparing the theories are different…which i am seeing in most of the scriptures written by you….

            I am questioning to clear the thoughts…but u r comparing to prove ur theory is correct.

            I think u r pretty much clear now….. :D

            The last line is a request and its in your hand to take it or leave it…It is your own wish…
            I am nowhere here to deal with or teach you….this is correct or not…

            I am on my own Karma…and Silence is the best knowledge…

            Thanks for a nice debate…..Bye….

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @OneWhoThought,

            I have a big problem with you last line request…

            Yopu must be aware of the theory of cannibalistic tribes that are found even today in Amazon etc.

            Would you happily offer yourself as a meal to this theory if one of it’s followers get hold of you?

            See ..there’s no problem if your theory is wrong when put to the test of logic and reason

            BUT if you theory is against humanity …it’s a SIN and a CRIME to tolerate it happily.

            The buddhists of my country did the same .. only to find their heads rolling down and their libraries being burnt by a bunch of zombies who had come up with a new theory.

            i hope you are in sync on this one..are you?

  8. TOTAGOTO says

    Brother, vik and arya please provide me the correct translations

    FEW SCIENTIFIC ERRORS IN HINDU SCRIPTURES

    1.“He who fixed firm the earth that staggered, and set at rest the agitated mountains, who measured out the air’s wide middle region and gave the heaven support, he men is Indra.” Rig Ved: 2: 12: 2. We all know today that the earth revolves and rotates and is not fixed.

    2.“In the beginning rose Hiranyagarbha, born only Lord of all created beings. He fixed and holds up the earth and the heaven.” Rig Ved: 10: 121: 1. We all know today that the earth revolves and rotates and is not fixed.

    3.“Firm is the sky and firm is the earth and steadfast are also these hills. Steadfast is all this living world…..” Rig Ved: 10: 173: 4

    4.“The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 4: 30

    5.“God has firmly fixed the earth with pegs around it.” Yajur Ved: 5: 16

    6.“ North West of the heavens.” Yajur Ved: 13: 56, 57

    7.“The sky is supported by pillars.” Yajur Ved: 4: 30

    8.“The Bull has supported the sky.” Yajur Ved: 14:5

    • Arya says

      @TOTAGOTO
      Brother, I am giving you the translations of the relevant (which you are looking for) portions of above Mantras one by one.

      1. One who controls the moving earth, who causes cloud formation and scattering, who is the source of light, is the sun.

      2. Even before creation of the universe, There was One lord who was master of all imperishable entities. He alone is the controller of all, including earth. He alone is worthy to be worshipped.

      3. Could not see much wrong in your translation. However meaning of firm is inertia, i.e. tendency to remain in the state in which it is set. So meaning of firmness in this Mantra is the unchangeable state of earth, which is to move in a certain path.

      4. Vrishabh in this Mantra means “possessor of best qualities” and has come for Eeshvar and not for bull.

      5. God has made earth firm in its motion by Sun’s attraction.

      6. When sun appears to be in west… (where is heaven in this Mantra?)

      7. Same as 4.

      8. O! Possessor of knowledge of inner…

    • Arya says

      @someone
      Please read full sentence. It is “origin of time which is infinitely away”. This is mathematical way of writing “no beginning”, just like two parallel lines are said to meet at infinity!

  9. Ohm Grewal says

    answer to this question reveals the difference between the Indo-eastern religions and Abrahamic faiths. Abrahamic faiths declare heavenly pleasures as eternal and final purpose of life. Indo-eastern faiths consider even heavens as bondage. Shri Krishna says the sages versed in vedas enjoy heavenly pleasures for eternal time until the merit of their good deeds is finished, they return to prakriti and follow the natural cycles of birth and death. Gautam buddha defined all the layers of heaven in detail and what karma lands you where. But this mentation is endless and Hinduism considers Moksha(yoga of individual consciousness to divine consciousness) as the final answer to this cycle.

    This also reveals the difference between the concept of god in the eastern(Indian) and western(abrahamic) faiths. For eastern faiths, god is omnipresent, primordial consciousness, beyond dualities of mind and responsible for all life. Even human spirit is considered to be essense of god with human nature. In abrahamic faiths, god is a separate sky-daddy, jealous of other faiths, crazy for large battalion and an angry tyrant who likes to punish and reward. He is very emotional and believes in carrot and stick ideology.

    In Indian faiths, nobody creates you but you yourself. When we wanted to enjoy the worldy cycles of karma, we decided to take birth in prakriti. In western-Abrahamic faiths, their god sent them down to test them and punish/reward them accordingly in his heaven.

  10. someone says

    The article is really very nice and attractive but the only thing that creates difficulty in understanding is the appearance of Allah in it. Is it necessary to talk about Allah whenever you talk about Ishwar. Can’t you keep them separate so that those who are interested in knowing the truth of Ishwar, jeev and Prakriti do not unnecessarily suffer from this matter of Allah. Allah made this article really bulky. Is it your love for Allah that makes you always to write his name or Allah is the source of your writing skill so you pay for that by repeatedly writing his name. Anywayz THANKS a lot for writing this nice article for all of us. May your loving Allah enhance your writing skill so that your words speak much more loudly and you can the whole world understand the actual concept of “Trinity”. But please don’t confuse our Ishwar with your loving Allah.

    • says

      Namaste

      Almost 50% of the visitors of this site come from Islamic background or claim to be Muslims. Hence to make the articles relevant for them, we attempted to compare the concepts with Islamic belief systems. Further, while the word Allah was used, it is a fact that a large number of non-Muslims also continue to believe that God created us, or that He is testing us etc. So while nomenclatures may change, the concepts are relevant to a large section of population. It is our limitation that we cannot address all segments of population by same article. Hence we provided links and downloadable pdfs of the content that form the basis of the article. We are sure that you would find them useful for a more concentrated study.

      Dhanyavad for your feedback.
      Agniveer Editorial Team

    • Arya says

      @da
      One has to go, where he deserves to go as per the deeds of his past and present. However law of last thought does not contradict with Vedic philosophy of Karm Phal as last thought will be the reflection of the whole character of that person and character is not something which can be changed in a moment.

  11. da says

    oh thakns for the reply so then the bhagavad gita interpretation ‘whatever stte of being one thinks attains’ then that is innacurate?

  12. da says

    of course you have very nicely explained , could you please elaborate on what you mean by the ‘character’ of a person? do you mean to say everything that encompassed the person as a whole(i.ewhat he thought about what he did,what he said,) is what he remembers at the crucial moment of death?

    • Arya says

      @da
      By character I mean the state of soul, which carries Sanskaaras of all past deeds (mental and physical). Actually there is no cause effect relation between the last thought and the future. It is not that a soul will be in peace because it was very calm at the time of death, but it is to be understood that his deeds were good and thus his Sanskaaras were reflected even at the time of death in the form of his calmness. Even if we talk about any thought which comes into our mind, it is a collective event behind which, past Sanskaaras and the present circumstances work together.

      Dhanyawad

  13. da says

    arya, technically you have contradicted the bhagavad gita statement by saying that ‘there is no cause effect relation between the last thought and the future’ and also your own statement you have contradicted a little bit. any response?

    • Arya says

      @da
      The principle of Karma Phal theory is clear. We are responsible for each of our Karma and we will have to accept it. Nobody in this world can break this Law. No Karma will ever vanish without giving its Phal.
      No contradiction from my side. Geeta too does not establish cause effect relationship between the last thought and future. Please give verse and its meaning for further discussion.

  14. da says

    Fair enough, i do not speak sanskrit or read it i live in england u see, however, the eighth chapter briefly establishes relation with last thought and future,

    ‘Whatever state of being one remembers whilst quitting this body, that state he attains to without fail, O son of Kunti’.

    (verse 7 chapter 8)

    • Arya says

      @da
      Principle is that Karma (deed) is cause and Phal (result) is its effect. Please interpret any verse in the light of this principle.

    • Arya says

      @da
      Yes, but it is not the only deed. There are previous deeds as well which are to be taken into account while talking of destiny.

      • yashwant says

        @da

        your deeds are responsible for your next life . In case the deeds which will warrant a human birth predominate then u will go into the womb of a woman.

        King krishna read the vedas in a gurukul.
        he advised arjuna in the form of Gita.
        why don’t u go to the basics. read the vedas and form your concepts.
        do u know that mahabharat contained less than 10000 verses at the time of king bhoja and now it has 1,20,000 verses. gita is a part of the mahabharat.

        the vedas r unadulterated.

        namaste

  15. da says

    i agree with arya that is why not only the last thought has to be taken into account but all the deeds and also the type of consciousness of the individual at death. Yash i already know what you have told me. there is nothing new there. but all these factors need to be taken into account when considering next birth, maharaja bharata was a pious soul however his rebirth was into the womb of an animal. Yes i know gita is adulterated especially chapter 16. It does not comply with vedas or vedanta, Also, mahatma gandhi uttered the lords name at death for a reason. so my point is that the deeds throughout life can influence next birth but also final thought. Of course you cant just think of what you like it has to be the overall constituent of all the types of thoughts one had during the course of life.

  16. DALIT says

    Steve has written:
    Yajur Veda Adhyay (Chapter) 13; Mantra (Verse) 37 says that :
    “O Learned man! You have gained knowledge from ancient scholars. You are charitable. Join your trained horses to your chariots, ready to face your enemy and establish yourself on the throne on justice.”

    He ancient scholars means that when Vedas were revealed it was after many days.So only it speaks of ancient scholars . So ONLY it is not eternal.
    Now How Can you guys explain this???
    So Only Buddha rejected Vedas..

    • Arya says

      @DALIT (hope you will not continue to be so)
      Which word in this Mantra gives you the meaning “ancient”? Mantra has the word “Poorvyah”, which means “before”. So, for those four Rishis, who were given Vedas, “Poorvyah” is Eeshvar because He possessed the knowledge of Vedas from beginningless time. And for the next scholars, Eshvar and those four Rishis…. etc will be taken by “Poorvyah”.

      So ONLY Vedas are eternal. I hope you will accept Vedas now and correct the mistake of our ancestors.

  17. da says

    its a scriptural anecdote. i can find out where it is from but there is no need because gita already has explained how that could possibly have happened. But then again if you disbelieve what the gita says then you may as well reject the 40 th chapter of the yajurveda.

    • Arya says

      @da
      Vedas are not dependent on any book. Rather it is the basis for all the wisdom which you see in Upanishads and Geeta. Vedas dont have any mention of Geeta but Geeta talks of Vedas many times. I think wise can conclude the rest.

  18. someone says

    Arya brother,
    I m asking out of the scope of this article but plz reply if possible.
    Once I have come to know that I m not body, this feeling remains just for a few moments and then again I start acting and feeling like body is me. How can I make the feeling that I m not not body, to be persistent?

    • Arya says

      someone brother
      This feeling can come only when one practices Yam and Niyam, which are as follows

      Yam-
      1. Ahinsa (hatred for none, non violence),
      2. Satya (truthfulness i.e. oneness of mind, tongue, and action),
      3. Asteya (stay away from theft),
      4. Brahmcharya (control on emotions specially sexual desires),
      5. Aparigriha (not to collect more than what you need)

      Niyam-
      1. Shouch (purity of body, tongue and soul),
      2. Santosh (satisfaction after putting full efforts),
      3. Tap (Never getting deviated from the path of truth at any cost),
      4. Swaadhyay(try to gain knowledge),
      5. Eeshvar Pranidhaan (full surrender to Eeshvar’s will)

      Following the above Yam and Niyam 24 x 7 and practice of Dhyaan on regular basis is sufficient to not only feel ourselves as soul but also attain Moksha. And there is no other way!

      Dhanyawad

    • sridhar says

      The feeling i am not the body always comes at night to you i.e sleep. No need to crave for making it permanent (actually craving makes the already existing feeling go). It is enough to realize that the subject i.e idea of jeeva and the object i.e prakriti are projected on the brahman i.e consciousness.

    • Arya says

      @da
      We should be in agreement over the portion or interpretation of verses which is in accordance with Vedas. However Vedas and Geeta are not interchangeable. Whenever we find any portion of any book going against Vedas, we should simply reject that part.

  19. bhagavan says

    Pranamam,

    Still i confused about the reincarnation of a soul?. If our life is the result of KARMA and the new birth is not aware about that , then what is the use?.. If a soul got the punishment birth and the mind is not aware of that. How could he able to realize the truth and start to seek for that.

    • Arya says

      @bhagavan
      Namaste,
      Purpose of this Karm Phal mechanism is not to fulfill any reward-punishment based cycle. Rather its purpose is to help souls get out of Bandhan and attain Moksha. However, due to bad deeds, when kusanskaars are imprinted on souls, they try to make soul behave the wrong way. To eradicate those, certain situations are created, which may not be comfortable to us but are necessary for our journey to Moksha. Due to the unfavaourable nature of such conditions, we start calling them as punishment. But we should remember that purpose of punishment will always be to reform. Its just like a medicine, which tastes bitter to the patient but is necessary to get the health back. A patient need not know, which medicine is affecting the disease, in which part of the body. But obviously, Doctor should know!

  20. someone says

    dear brother agniveer
    namaste
    i have some doubt regarding your theory. i hope you’ll clarify my doubt which is as follows:
    you said that “God operates so perfectly that scientists have been able to derive mathematical equations that quantify His unchangeable laws.This Entity would move two unconnected particles even light years apart in such exact fashion that the mathematical formulation of universal law of gravitation is never violated. Scientists know that two distant particles come close to each other as per the equation of Gravitation, but fail to explain what makes the two particles talk to each other and conspire together to move closer in a planned manner.” here i think that gravitation is a property of mass and God is not moving the two distant bodies but they are being moved by their own attraction. what i mean is that not all the laws like gravitation, electricity, magnetism etc, that we see in universe and for which scientists have derived mathematical equations, are God’s “Karma” but some are Prakriti’s own properties “Swabhaav”. i believe that in the whole creation what God does is that being omniscient He knows exactly all the properties of sat, raj, tam and of all their possible combinations and so He designs the universe in such a way that all those properties are used optimally. the basis of my belief is that sat, raj, tam must be characterized by some properties which make distinction among them and so these three when combined in different proportions will result in substances of different properties which are known to God. but only because God knows these properties exactly we can’t say that He is making the substances to follow the laws. instead He is combining the three in different proportions so that they can exhibit those properties and the reason is that they can’t combine by themselves but need someone to do this. definitely gravitation alone is not responsible for movement of earth round the sun because there must be someone to create earth and sun, and sets the earth in motion and takes care that it does not leave its orbit. so i don’t deny the existence or working of God but believe in the characteristic properties of Prakriti also. so i think there should be no question like “what is the source of this unified source?” that is there in the article FAQ on The Concept of God.
    dhanyavad

  21. sshama says

    1. Who created the universe and humans when God is only a ‘super manager’ and only maintaining the created (u call it universe or srushti etc)

    2. Who will destroy the srushti or who destroys srushti?

    3. If God only maintains the universe then does it not mean there is somebody above the maintainer who checks the mainenanace work of God or eeshwar?

    4. What is the end result of this ‘loop game concept of creation/destruction’

    5. If somebody is reborn according to previous deeds then what is the proof that he/she is born as an animal coz of his/her previous deeds?

    6. If the births change according to ones good deeds, then why is not that the animal population or species increasing in this universe and that of humans decreasing coz of the growing sins/crimes in the present world as compared to past world ? But many of the animal species going extinct and human population increasing ?

    7. By taking unlimited births we are going no where, why not we take one birth and go somewhere? Which theory sounds more reasonable?

    8. What criteria will keep the humans on the straight path to attain the eternal bliss or is it only the fear that he/she will be born in the womb of an earthworm the next time, that too him/her not knowing what mistakes he/she did in the past birth?

    9. If God did not create us then who created us and why, or just to witness the creation/destruction of the universe without the end results? Where is this cycle of creation/destruction going, what will be the climax?

    10. If the creation/destruction cycle is non-stop who will give moksha to this self existing eternal cycle?

    11. If Gods work is to just appreciate and respect our deeds then how will your extremely kind God will disagree with the sinners ? Just by causing him/her born in the womb of an earthworm that too without him even knowing that he is an earthworm now and that why he is an earthworm now? Will the earthworm not feel an injustice caused to him/her?

    12. If God helps us in attaining moksha, why did the noble dayanad saraswati has to take the pain of writing ‘satyartha prakash’ to help others attain moksha. Why agniveer is wastiong tons of paper to help others attain moksha? Why not leave it to God?

    Do you think God will keep such a brain hammering and complicate theory for humans which by reading itself seems like going no where. I happened to read some of the questions of some people on the above article, but the answers seemed even more confusing and adding hell lot of complications to the already complex theory of karma , shrusti , prakriti , nature etc. Come on whats all this. If we dont wanna call this nonsense, what do you think one should call this? Even an enistein will not understand this theory with all his qualifications and degrees.

    Same are the christians theories of ‘Trinity’ , ‘Original sin’ etc. When they say God is three but one and not three.

    And BTW, do you guys think that you are protecting us from entering in an earthwoems womb in our next birth from such complex/contradictory theories? Then I think I was really an einstein that I grasped this theory in my previous birth and became a human in this brith. But unfortunately in this birth I am just a layman (hard luck me) so I am destined to become an earthworm in my next birth. I think your ever kind God will help me in attaining moksha in my next birth when I will be an earthwom, but I dont know how. Maybe he will give a special ‘satyartha parkash or vedas’ specially made for earthwoms.
    Oh but then I forgot that your God will not know that I will be born an earthworm in the next birth, coz as far as I understand your concept is of a non-destiny God.

    • Vik says

      @Sshama

      Namaste,

      Sshama, looks like you have not read Satyarth Prakash, otherwise you would have not been asking many of these questions. I advise you read chapters 7-9 for sure which deeply talk about the questions you raised right now. I do not have 100% knowledge of the Vedas, but I will try to answer your questions based on the wisdom I gained through reading Satyarth Prakash and the articles written by the respected Agniveer Admin. If I make a mistake I would advise my seniors to correct me.

      1) Ishwar created the universe. As per Vedas, Ishwar, Soul and Matter are eternal, which makes alot more sense than the concept of creation of the abrahamic faiths like Christ or Islam. Lets see why, as per islam, Allah created everything, this means He even created matter and space. Now my question is if He created matter and space, what existed before matter???? Where was Allah standing when He created the universe??? Since Allah is not omnipresent, this means there was some space around Him, who created that then??? This is why Vedas say matter was also eternal. Otherwise, concept of creation of Quran will lead us to so many loopholes.

      2) Shrishti will destroy itself. Ishwar is perfect and everything follows the law of Ishwar. The law of Ishwar is that anything born or created will one day have to end or destroy. Since earth was created, it will eventually get destroyed one day. And Ishwar will construct the earth again, and it will get destroyed again in endless cycles. The laws of Ishwar are UNDISTURBED. Hence they are perfect.

      3) No one is on top of Ishwar. Ishwar is the highest. Ishwar created the universe, will maintain it for a period, then it will have to face its end again since it has to obey the natural law of Ishwar.

      4) There is no end result. It will continue to go on in cycles. Just like night is proceeded by day and then night again and so on. Just like a circle, which has no beginning or end.

      5) The proof is your position of birth itself. You are born in a place and state according to your deeds. All your deeds will decide the position, status, state and so on of your soul in the next life. This explains why people around you are born rich, poor, healthy, unhealthy, humans, animals, etc. Whereas Islam says it is a test from Allah which does not make sense, since it shows unequality in everyone. I mean some babies die at birth, and some humans die at the age of 100, then the question is why did the babies get the easiest test?????

      6)Do you have any idea how many organisms exist in this world????Are you saying that you have kept track of every insect, animal, human, and plants???????? The cycle of reincarnation applies to all this. The criteria is so complex that only Ishwar can judge it and use it, not us.

      Only Ishwar can accurately keep track of all these things, not we humans.

      7) As per Vedas,

      a. Soul is an unborn and undying entity.

      b. It takes birth in various life-forms including humans as per its level of ignorance/ knowledge.

      c. The human body we see is made of inanimate matter. It is integrated with soul that is our true identity.

      d. Based on the acts we perform, we develop tendencies or sanskaars which are attached to soul.

      e. Even after we die, we take a new birth as per these sanskaars and continue our journey forever.

      f. Soul has limited potential for knowledge and hence is prone to ignorance. This ignorance causes difference in personalities. When ignorance is eradicated beyond a threshold through our efforts, we obtain ultimate bliss or Moksha.

      8)Humans must be good and do good deeds only. They should show love and sympathy to everything. Basically just do good things.

      9) Ishwar did not create our souls, He only created our bodies since our souls demanded bodies. Our souls have been existing along with Ishwar for eternity. Soul, Ishwar, and Matter are beginingless and endless, they can never be born or destroyed. But Soul by itself can not do anything, so that is why it is subjected under Ishwar and hence Ishwar creates bodies to help the soul. The cycle will continue, it will never end nor begin, just like night is proceeded by the day, then night again, same manner. Ishwar operates perfectly in His set rules, so He cannot even change His rules one percent.

      There is no climax. Yes, the universe will come to an end one day since the universe was a created entity and according to the natural law of Ishwar, anything created has to be destroyed one day. So the universe will be created and destroyed in endless cycles for eternity.

      10)Moksha is only given to souls, not cycles. And the only one that can give Moksha is Ishwar. It is the highest destiny for every soul to acheive Moksha or Salvation.

      11)Ishwar always stays in a constant phase, it never gets happy or angry. However, Ishwar has set laws of nature in such a way that the good people get rewarded and the wicked gets punished. Basically Ishwar’s state is like fire. Now, the property of fire never changes, it is good when it gives us light, but if people become foolish and try to touch fire, it will burn them. If the earthwarm is an earthworm, then it is that because its previous life sanskaars demanded its present form.

      12)God does not help us attaining Moksha, attaining Moksha or Salvation is purely our responsibility, Ishwar has given us free will, now its up to us, to rise or degrade. That is the beauty of Vedic God, that we all have free will unlike islam where Allah has pre written our destiny and we are just puppets.

  22. says

    Salama,
    People that question God surely people without knowledge and understanding. Vedas ask you to seek knowledge and understanding? Why? So that you won’t question God for your stupidity.

    Let me tell you the purpose of your existence? God created you to worship him. Then the question is how? What do you gain out of this? If you say you follow the Vedas, surely you have reach the supreme blissfulness, right? If not then something is wrong here or something is missing?

    God ask us to follow his religion and be in his kingdom. How do you know that you are in his religion? Very simple, all the character of God is describe in the book for example, merciful, wise, all knowing, great, powerful, etc. that are all the positive characters. So, becoming the servant of God mean you should share all the characters of God because you shall display that you are with him. You should have the answer that most people did not have. If you even question God for something that you did not gain understanding due to your ignorance, then you are not helping people but deviating them and i can call you a devil.

    Al Quran is the last revelation from God. So, last revelation means that it carry the missing link in the books sent previously. The quran itself told us that God ask us to trust the books sent before. Why? Because all the books talk about religion of God and contain the knowledge from God through the previous prophets. The quran itself testifies that it is not a complete book. For people that link the book to Islam surely have deviated. The book talks about the religion of Abraham and God have brought his commandments in the torah and injil while the vedas contain spirituality aspect. Only by combining all the knowledge from all the books sent from God, you will obtain the complete knowledge of religion of God. Have done that? Have you understand and follow what he ask you to do in his book? Did you even know how to read? I pray to God to have mercy on you.

    For people that ask about 13, here is the answer. God name is Allaha and can be written in arabaya number as 139. God will put his signature in the scripture to tell us that it came from him. No 1 shows that there is only one God and he is the beginning. 3 shows that he owns everything that he created and 9 shows that he end everything and the last. Look at the symbol Om and you will find his name. Man is created in God’s image as such man’s number is half from God that is 13. Ever wonder why woman’s pregnant for 9 months and 10 days. Why there are 9 planets in our planetery system? Open your eyes and you will see his signs everywhere.

  23. sshama says

    @mahadaya: Is your above paragraph addressing me, if yes, then you are a big stupid coz you dont know even whom you are referring, I m not salama, or I dont know what you are referring by salama.

    @mahadaya: People that question God surely people without knowledge and understanding

    Who is questioning God, I m just questioning the concept of agniveers God, or the so called ‘vedic God’.

    @mahadaya: Vedas ask you to seek knowledge and understanding?

    So what, every religious book ask you to seek knowledge and understanding.

    @mahadaya: Let me tell you the purpose of your existence? God created you to worship him

    Kindly pass this advice to agniveer and his gang, coz it is they who refute this claim and not me. Before passing your stupid comments on others stupidity, kindly study the matter first.

    @mahadaya: Let me tell you the purpose of your existence? God created you to worship him. Then the question is how? What do you gain out of this? If you say you follow the Vedas, surely you have reach the supreme blissfulness, right? If not then something is wrong here or something is missing?

    All these answers will be found in the Gods book. But depends which book u consider to be the book of God.

    @mahadaya: If you even question God for something that you did not gain understanding due to your ignorance, then you are not helping people but deviating them and i can call you a devil.

    Who is questioning God, and who is devil and whos angel u will come to know on the final day.

    @mahadaya: Al Quran is the last revelation from God. So, last revelation means that it carry the missing link in the books sent previously.

    R u asking or informing?

    @mahadaya: The quran itself told us that God ask us to trust the books sent before. Why? Because all the books talk about religion of God and contain the knowledge from God through the previous prophets.

    So who is tellin no?

    @mahadaya: The quran itself testifies that it is not a complete book.

    Really, So get ready for a noble prize. You have really invented something eye opening. But alas you dont have proofs.

    @mahadaya: Only by combining all the knowledge from all the books sent from God, you will obtain the complete knowledge of religion of God. Have done that?

    Is that so. By combining all books you will get ‘complete’ knowledge or ‘complicate’ knowledge which will make your confused mind even more confused. If God has to send so many books, why not God send all that information just short in one book. Is your God an inefficient God, that to give some information he requires 1000 books instead of one book which could had made the grasping of information hell lot of easier comparative to 1000 books, that too all books contradicting themselves. God wants to confuse us or guide us by his books?

    @mahadaya: Look at the symbol Om and you will find his name.

    Cut the crap!!!!!!! I find Gods sign everywhere.

    @mahadaya: Man is created in God’s image as such man’s number is half from God that is 13. Ever wonder why woman’s pregnant for 9 months and 10 days. Why there are 9 planets in our planetery system?

    Why dont you pass on your brilliant discoveries ans theories to research centres, they will include your discoveries atleast in the first grade science syllabus. You look quite fascinated by number game, why dont you become a guru in numerology? BTW, thnx for informing that there are only nine planets in the solar system.

  24. Kafir786 says

    SSHAMA ISLAM IS THE MOST CONFUSING RELIGION IN THE WORLD. I would like to use your own circular logic, from 1000 of years daily many muslims are dying and their bodies are buried in graves, and these bodies decompose into dust particles and goes into earthworm’s womb so that means in Qayamat the Judgment day Allah will be judging earthworms.

    Other confusing thing about islam is muslim say they are non idol worshipers but worship Kaaba which is the biggest idol in the world.

    Biggest confusion of islam is they claim that they are monotheistic religion but their places of worship like Kaaba and Masjid are filled with symbols of trinity. Masjid are filled with symbols of Trinity like Crescent moon and stars, KAABA IS MUSLIM TRINITY because black stone represents (UZZA) , the cubic kaba represent the sun goddess (ALLAT) and Hatim wall represents as MOON GOD (ALLAH). Any good scholar in comparative religion and religious symbolism can see this HIDDEN TRINITY IN ISLAM.

    Below link you can see the images of HIDDEN TRINITY IN ISLAM.

    http://chriswillard.multiply.com/journal/item/279/?&item_id=279&view:replies=reverse

  25. Jacob says

    brother Allah is the arabic word for god. not like that is the name of the god its the arabic word for god.. people used to worship the kaaba before the prophet was even born. it was a pagan practice. they worshipped moon, sun, trees and idols etc.. obviously an englishman who worships the sun will call it god doesnt mean its the same god the bible reffers to now does it??? take the specific description about god.

    Verse 112:1-4

    say he is god, the one! god the eternally besought of all! He begets not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable to him.

  26. sshama says

    @kaffir 786: ‘Masjid are filled with symbols of Trinity like Crescent moon and stars, KAABA IS MUSLIM TRINITY because black stone represents (UZZA) , the cubic kaba represent the sun goddess (ALLAT) and Hatim wall represents as MOON GOD (ALLAH). Any good scholar in comparative religion and religious symbolism can see this HIDDEN TRINITY IN ISLAA

    Cut the crap!!!…u have too much time for imagination….start writing poetry atleast it will work…but surely this fairy tale is not working here….

    • Kaffir786 says

      @SSHAMA: OOPS SSHAMA I FORGOT MUSLIMS WOMAN ARE NOT ALLOWED IN MASJID SO YOUR CHANCES OF SEEING THIS TRINITY IS OUT OF QUESTION AND THE MAXIMUM YOU HAVE SEEN MUST ONLY BE DARGAHS.

      SSHAMA WRITE CORRECT SPELLING OF ISLAM IT IS NOT “HOLY TRINITY OF ISLAA” IT IS HOLY TRINITY OF ISLAM”

      I THINK YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE LINK WHICH I HAVE GIVEN OTHERWISE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ASKED THIS STUPID QUESTION, IMAGE OF ISLAMIC PAGAN TRINITY IS CLEARLY GIVEN IN IT.

      WHAT I HAVE TOLD IS 100% CORRECT THE BLACK STONE WITH SILVER CASING IS A SYMBOL OF GODDESS VENUS FOR WHICH MUSLIM KEEP SABBATH ON FRIDAY (DAY OF VENUS).

      IF YOU STILL THINK WE ARE LYING THEN WHY DON’T READ COMPARATIVE RELIGION AND RELIGIOUS SYMBOLISM AND FIND OUT TRUTH.

      SEE THIS IMAGE OF PAGAN TRINITY IN ISLAM

      [img]http://agniveer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pagan-trinity.jpg[/img]

    • roger says

      @SSS

      yeah we have earlier experienced islam = peace, in somnath, ayodhya, palitana, aurangabad, partition of india, palestine, kashmir, 9/11 and we are indeed terrified with your definition of PEACE.

  27. sshama says

    @Kafir: GODDESS VENUS FOR WHICH MUSLIM KEEP SABBATH ON FRIDAY (DAY OF VENUS).

    Quite hilarious!!! I like the Goddess venus and sabbath most funny…nice one!!!!….

  28. sshama says

    @Kafir: Keep posting….you give a gud chance to laugh and never leave any stone unturned to prove yourself funny by giving some stupid links…

    • Kafir786 says

      Ha Ha Ha I already knew you won’t accept this truth because you don’t even know the spelling of islam then how you will understand these concepts and even your Mohammad has told you are half our intelligence actually you are giving us good chance to laugh.

  29. sshama says

    @Kaffir: Who is accepting truth and who is rejecting truth…..will come to knw soon….till that time good luck to you in ur fools paradise and remain busy in ur wishful thinking…

    • Kafir786 says

      Ha Ha Ha the whole world knows about your paradise 72 virgins and pearl eyed boys definitely you are waiting for that paradise.

  30. Islamist's Nightmare says

    @sshama

    We all know who is living in fool’s paradise. i pity on you…you are defending here a cult which says women are half intelligent than man. That cult is disrespecting you clearly…can’t you see that?

    Kafir786
    Bro, i think we are all wasting our time on a creature who doesn’t want to believe that she is equal to man.

    • yeahme says

      oh can u show me one verse frm quran which says women knowledge is half of man, u r replacing the verses man, see the vedas which says lord indra said woman has little knolwedge

      • 108Eternal says

        Here you go:

        Women have a deficiency of intelligence, meaning that their decisions will not be comparable to a man’s. [Bukhari (48:826)]

        Vedas says no such thing, the very fact that you referred to Indra as Lord Indra shows how little you know. Go read up.

    • roger says

      women’s right in islam…..lets see how would you people justify this declaration of ‘THE UAE’s highest judicial body says a man can beat his wife and young children’

      • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

        SSS : yar y don’t you understand once and for all .. Sati is not part of the Vedic Dharma, and it has been mentioned in this site alone a zillion times. Sati came into existence only after marauder Muslims followed to the Lands and was first practices by Rajput women to save themselves from the harem of pious and righteous Muslims(no doubt it continued as a vice in the society) so restrict your comments to comparative study of religion veda vs Islam. if you cannot you are free to leave.

  31. truefriend111111 says

    आर्यव्रतस्थ

    CAN U EXPLAIN THE BELOW VEDIC STATEMENT FROM DAYANAND VERSION OF VEDAS WORD TO WORD ABOUT SATI–AS U R SAYING THAT SATI IS NOT THE PAART OF VEDA–

    Widow burning (Sati):
    “Let these unwidowed dames with noble husbands adorn themselves with fragrant balm and unguent. Decked with fair jewels, tearless, free from sorrow, first let the dames go up to where he lieth. Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman: come, he is lifeless by whose side thou liest. Wifehood with this thy husband was thy portion, who took thy hand and wooed thee as a lover.” [Rig-Veda 10:18:7-8]

      • truefriend111111 says

        @VAJRA

        IF I AM TELLING A LIE THEN PROOVE FROM U’R TRANSLATION

        BUT WORD TO WORD——AND U CAN ASK ME ABOUT QURAN WORD TO WORD

        I’LL NOT MAKE EXCUSES-I’LL TELL U IN DETAIL.

        • Vajra says

          truefriend of zakir
          Take oath of Quran, did you quote Dayanand? Did not you give Griffith’s translation in the name of Dayanand? Shame on you that you can go to any level to defeat your opponent. Did you give meaning to the Mantras, word to word? Copy pasting from Griffith wont work here! Unless you bring translation by any Rishi, it is worthless. You continue to copy paste from Griffith, I will continue to give translation of Quran by great Islamic scholar Vajra!

  32. sshama says

    yeah me , truefriend :- No need to give them proofs, everyone knows whats the truth and whats falsehood. Let them have some laugh at their own stupidity and what more we can expect of somone whose religion itself sanctions all types of vices in the society and point to be noted is that they consider verses of Quran to be manmade and verses of hadith as Godmade. The deaf dumb blind will never attain the true path.

    • Vajra says

      Sister sshama
      Do you know that your probability of going hell is much more than a male Momin as Muhammad saw most of the dwellers of hell to be women! So you see, we Kafirs are your long term friends as we will be with you forever in hell! So why taking side of yeah me and truefriend who will leave you to burn in hell? Rather we are your true friends!

      • truefriend111111 says

        @VAJRA
        Sister sshama
        Do you know that your probability of going hell is much more than a male Momin as Muhammad saw most of the dwellers of hell to be women! So you see, we Kafirs are your long term friends as we will be with you forever in hell! So why taking side of yeah me and truefriend who will leave you to burn in hell? Rather we are your true friends!

        ANSWER:- VAJRA BEFORE QUOTING FROM HADITH WE MUST SEE WHETHER IS IT AUTHENTIC OR NOT BECAUSE IT IS NOT WORD OF GOD—–THAT’S WHY EVERY HADITH STARTS WITH “ACCORDING TO ” AND SO ON IT NEITHER STARTS WITH ACCORDING TO GOD OR PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW)

        WE HAVE TO SEE WHETHER IT MATCHES WITH QURAN OR NOT

        LET’S SEE WHAT QURAN SAYS
        Whoever works righteousness, man or WOMAN, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions. (An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #97)

        “He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed – whether man or WOMAN – and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure. (Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #40)

        SO ACCORDING TO QURAN IT IS YOU’R DEEDS AND NOT MEN AND WOMEN.

        U FANATIC PEOPLE CANNOT PROOVE ANYTHING FROM U’R SIDE SO U USE THE WRONG WAY TO TELL ANYTHNG ABOUT ISLAM

        IF WE START QUOTING STATEMENTS BESIDES VEDAS–U U’R SELF FEEL ASHAMED OF U’R SCRIPTURES

        • Vajra says

          truefriend of zakir
          This hadith belongs to Sahih Bukhari and not any Galat hadith! So now you accept that Sahih Hadith are no longer Sahih! OK, fine. But then why does Zakir Naik say that its important to believe in Sahih Hadith along with Quran in order to be a true Muslim? Why does he not openly claim that many hadith in Sahih Hadith are wrong and thus need not be believed anymore? Why did Darul Uloom Deoband give Fatwa that it is equally important to believe in all Sahih hadith in order to be a Muslim?

          Play your tricks somewhere else, not here!

          • truefriend111111 says

            @vajra

            WHAT IS SAHIH BUKHARI?
            SAHIH BUKHARI IS AN COLLECTION OF HADITH AND NOT ONLY ONE HADITH.

            WHAT IS SAHIH HADITH?
            HADITH QUOTED WHICH ARE WIDELY ACCEPTED BY ALL THE SCHOLARS IN SAHIH BUKHARI,SUNAN ABU DAWUD,ETC IS CALLED AS SAHIH.

            AND NOT THE WHOLE BOOK AS SAHIH—-THERE ARE MORE THAN 60000 HADITHS IN SAHIH BUKHARI–AND ALL ARE NOT CONSIDERED AS SAHIH—

            -I AM GIVING U ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE—AS WELL CAN GIVE REGARDING VEDAS –THE DATE OF SPECIAL BATCHES WILL BE KNOWN TO U SHORTLY

            U’R WEAK IN KNOWLEDGE OF ISLAM AND VEDAS TOOOOO—–SO BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENT CHECK IT

          • Vajra says

            truefriend of Zakir Naik and sister sshama
            Now your Islamic knowledge has been exposed! Bukhari and Muslim are considered Sahih because they are considered to be correct as a whole and that is why Sahih is used with these two books only! I have not heard of any Sunni scholar questioning Sahih Hadith, not even your mentor Zakir Naik. And now I will show you the contradiction between you and your mentor Zakir over this very hadith of majority of hell dwellers to be women. So it is weak as per you, but it is Sahih as per Zakir Naik! Just see the video and know how shamelessly he justified it through his lies and how his Madarsa bred semi literates clapped!

            So before making any comment, check it whether it is in sync with your terrorist mentor Zakir Naik

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5HN0v2XS20&feature=related

          • truefriend111111 says

            @vajra

            WHENEVER CHECKING ANY HADITH–ITSHOULD MATCH WITH THE QURAN–OR OTHERWISE ACCEPTED BY ALL THE SCHOLARS

            MOREOVER IT IS AN PREDICTION MADE BY THE PROPHET,—BUT TO GO TO PARADISE OR HELL—IS NOT DEPENDENT ON SEX—BUT BY DEEDS

            SEE QURAN-Whoever works righteousness, man or WOMAN, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions. (An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #97)

            SEE THE COMPLETE HADITH
            Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet said: “I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were WOMEN who were ungrateful.” It was asked, “Do they disbelieve in Allah?” (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, “They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, ‘I have never received any good from you.” (Book #2, Hadith #28)

            SO IT IS DEEDS– NOT SEX OF THE HUMAN BEING , CONSIDERED.

            SO MY DEAR JUNIOR DAYANAD SARAWATI— READ THE COMPLETE HADITH–IT FURTHER SAYS DEEDS ARE CONSIDERED IN HADITH AND AS WELL AS QURAN–

            DON’T MAKE OUT OF CONTEXT STATEMENTS AND CLAIM ANYTHHING—READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT WITH CONTET

            IF I SAY –ALL MEN WILL GO TO HELL, THOSE WHO ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS.

            BUT IF U MAKE A STATEMENT, THAT–TRUEFRIEND SAID THAT— ALL MEN WILL GO TO HELL–IT WILL BE AN SHAMEFUL ACT FROM U’R SIDE–U HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT WITH CONTEXT.

            SEE THE FALSE FALSE CLAIM OF U’R DAYANAND IN SATYARTH PRAKASH CH14, HOW HE MAKE FALSE CLAIM IN QURAN BY QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT—AS U HAD DONE–JUNIOR DAYANAND-

            DAYANAND QUESTION- It is right to worship Him and beg assistance of Him, but is this equally right to invoke His assistance in doing even evil deeds?

            REALLY THE AUTHOR AS WELL AS THE CRITICS OF ISLAM HAS THE BAD HABIT OF QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT SENTENCES—FOR THE RIGHT MEANING U HAVE TO READ WITH THE CONTEXT-

            Surah Fatiha Ch V-(5) Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek 6) Show us the straight way, (7) The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

            FIRST OF ALL WERE THE SENTENCE SAYS THAT WE SOULD SEEK HIS AID IN EVIL AND TRY TO READ THE FULL SENTENCE WITH CONTEXT—IT FURTHER SAYS TO SHOW THE STRAIGHT WAY ON WHOSE FAVOURS HAS BESTOWED AND NOT WRATH.

            U ARE FOLLOWING THE SAME FOOTSTEPS—FIRST OF ALL BE FAITHFUL–THEN ONLY U CAN PROPER

          • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

            @truefriend111111 : A question to you If Allah give life without regard to any previous grudge the why does he not create everyone one equal (y is there so much disparity in the world some are poor some are rich, some are born without limbs some are outrageously beautiful) and then why does he have to check for the deeds at qayamat? if he does not care for deeds while giving life, then why to do so at qayamat for eternal hell or eternal bliss, is he plain naive or just sadistic ?

          • truefriend111111 says

            @आर्यव्रतस्थ
            @VAJRA
            JUNIOR DAYANAND SARASWATI—GURU OF OUT OF CONTEXT

            SEE THE COMPLETE HADITH
            Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: The Prophet said: “I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were WOMEN who were ungrateful.” It was asked, “Do they disbelieve in Allah?” (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, “They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, ‘I have never received any good from you.” (Book #2, Hadith #28)

            THE PROPHET SAID:—The Prophet said: “I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were WOMEN who were ungrateful.

            @WOMEN who were ungrateful@WOMEN who were ungrateful@WOMEN who were ungrateful@WOMEN who were ungrateful@WOMEN who were ungrateful.

            UNGRATEFUL AND NOT ALL

            SO I FURTHER SAID
            IF I SAY –ALL MEN WILL GO TO HELL, THOSE WHO ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS.

            BUT IF U MAKE A STATEMENT, THAT–TRUEFRIEND SAID THAT— ALL MEN WILL GO TO HELL–IT WILL BE AN SHAMEFUL ACT FROM U’R SIDE–U HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT WITH CONTEXT.

            BABY I THINK–U’R ENGLISH IS WEAK—WHENEVER ANALYZING THE STATEMENT READ WITH THE CONTEXT

          • Vajra says

            truefriend of zakir naik
            Prediction? This hadith contains past perfect tense which means that this was an actual event, which had happened already before Muhammad told it to others! Dont you know the difference between prediction and actual incident? Or you mean to say that Muhammad cooked this incident of his own and he told lie?

            What about Sahih Bukhari and Muslim if these contain galat hadith? You did not answer it!

            Why your mentor Zakir Naik has different opinion about this hadith that this is correct? And surprisingly, in previous comment, you claimed this hadith to be weak and now, you are justifying it! Dont get confused! Take your time, no hurry from my side! Ask your Aalims and then come.

            you wrote- “SO IT IS DEEDS– NOT SEX OF THE HUMAN BEING , CONSIDERED.”

            Is it? This hadith is for women alone and thus deeds of a particular gender are considered in it! If not, why does it not talk about humans instead of women? SO IT IS SEX OF THE HUMAN BEING, WHICH IS CONSIDERED IN ISLAM.

            Regarding Dayanand, for your kind information, whatever you have quoted, is the comment of Dayanand on the verse and not any verse itself as you claimed that Dayanand quoted it out of context! When will you grow up? You even dont understand the difference between verse and comments on a verse?

            Now comes, why did Swami Dayanand write this! So as you know that Muslims can loot, kill, abduct, rape the enemies (enemies are those who dont believe in Islam) and they are aided by Allah himself in these deeds. Thus Swami had to write that Muslims seek help of Allah in evil deeds. Now its just the definition of evil, which is different for you and Swami. For you, if someone invades your land, loots your country, forces his religion on you, abducts you daughters and sisters, rapes them, makes them slaves, sells them in market, all these are divine as per your books, but such acts were evil in the eyes of Dayanand.

            I feel proud that I follow the footsteps of a great man Swami Dayanand and not any pedophile, rapist, looter, self proclaimed prophet.

            IMPORTANT: SEEING YOUR LEVEL OF COMMENTS AND YOUR POOR UNDERSTANDING OF QURAN, HADITH ETC, POOR ANALYTICAL SKILLS AND FAILURE OF UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES AND LOGIC, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TO VISIT http://agniveer.com/terms/eligibility-rules-for-debate/ AND DO THE NEEDFUL.

            THANKS.

          • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

            @truefriend111111 : Request you to answer the first question i asked above and then read this

            now if the deeds are considered(which seems right,no issues there),still then ,why were there majority of women in hell(is it a physical place? BTW what bodies are there, ones that are buried or some other?) as seen by mohammad? do you mean that women by nature do bad deeds as compared to Men?

            Either you do not validate your own logic before writing or you wasting people’s time here

          • truefriend111111 says

            @आर्यव्रतस्थ

            ——————-#—————————#———————#——————#—–
            HE SAYS–1) now if the deeds are considered(which seems right,no issues there),still then ,why were there majority of women in hell(is it a physical place?

            ANSWER:-THE HADITH DOESN’T SAYS MAJORITY OF WOMEN AND STOPS—BUT FURTHER SAYS WHO ARE UNGRATEFUL.

            FOR .E.G.–IF I SAY I WENT TO JAIL IN USA AND I SAW MAJORITY OF THE CRIMINALS CHRISTIANS , WHO COMITTED CRIMES.

            IF U SAY WHY ONLY CHRISTIANS—MY ANSWER–I SAID NOT ALL CHRISTIANS , BUT THOSE WHO WERE CRIMINALS——–

            —————————–AND I SAID I SAW———————————

            IT MAY HAPPEN IN FUTURE THE REVERSE CAN HAPPEN–

            ——————–#———————-#——————–#———————–#—–
            BTW what bodies are there, ones that are buried or some other?) as seen by mohammad?

            MY ANSWER-
            Unbelievers argue regarding resurrection takingplace after bones of dead people have disintegrated in the earth and how each individual would be identified on the Day of Judgement. Almighty Allah answers that He can not only assemble our bones but can also reconstruct perfectly our very fingertips.

            “Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?
            Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.”
            [Al-Qur’an 75:3-4]

            THE QURAN ANSWERS U’R QUESTION 1400 YEARS BEFORE —THAT ALLAH NOT ONLY CAN ASSMBLE U’R BONES BUT FINGERTIPS IN PERFECT ORDER

            THE INFORMATION WHICH WE CAME TO KNOW RECENTLY REGARDING EVERYONE HAS AN UNIQUE FINGERPRINTS–QURAN TELL THIS 1400 YEARS BEFORE.–
            In 1880, fingerprinting became the scientific method of
            identification, after research done by Sir Francis Golt.

            QURAN SAYS THAT IN THE HELL, ALLH WILL GIVE US FRESH SKIN AS SOON AS THEY ARE ROASTED TOO FEEL THE PAIN

            INDICATING THAT THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE SKIN WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PAIN CALLED AS PAIN RECEPTORS–SEE BELOW

            “Those who reject our signs,We shall sooncast into the Fire;
            as often as their skinsare roasted through,We shall change them
            or fresh skins,that they may tastethe Penalty:for Allah is Exalted
            in Power, Wise.”[Al-Qur’an 4:56]

            Prof. Tagatat Tejasen, Chairman of the Departmentof Anatomy at Chiang Mai University in Thailand,has spent a great amount of time on research of
            pain receptors. Initially he could not believe thatthe Qur’an mentioned this scientific fact 1,400years ago. He later verified the translation of this
            particular Qur’anic verse. Prof. Tejasen was soImpressed by the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anicverse, that at the 8th Saudi Medical Conference
            held in Riyadh on the Scientific Signs of Qur’an and Sunnah, he proudly proclaimed in public:

            U BONES WILL BE ARRANGED WITH PERFECT FINGERTIPS AS WELL AS FRESH SKIN WILL BE GIVEN —DON’T WORRY

            ————————————–#—————————-#———————-#——-
            do you mean that women by nature do bad deeds as compared to Men?

            ANSWER:-WHERE DO THE HADITH SAYS WOMEN ARE UNGRATEFUL–IT SAYS ABOUT UNGRATEFUL WOMEN WHICH PROPHET(SAW) ALREADY SAW IN HELL.

            WHILE MAKING CLAIMS —READ IN BETWEEN THE LINES—IT IS NOT JUST LIKE READING THE TRANSLATION OF VEDAS.–THAT TOO OF U’R VERSION.

          • Vajra says

            truefriend of zakir naik
            Prediction? This hadith contains past perfect tense which means that this was an actual event, which had happened already before Muhammad told it to others! Dont you know the difference between prediction and actual incident? Or you mean to say that Muhammad cooked this incident of his own and he told lie?

            What about Sahih Bukhari and Muslim if these contain galat hadith? You did not answer it!

            Why your mentor Zakir Naik has different opinion about this hadith that this is correct? And surprisingly, in previous comment, you claimed this hadith to be weak and now, you are justifying it! Dont get confused! Take your time, no hurry from my side! Ask your Aalims and then come.

            you wrote- “SO IT IS DEEDS– NOT SEX OF THE HUMAN BEING , CONSIDERED.”

            Is it? This hadith is for women alone and thus deeds of a particular gender are considered in it! If not, why does it not talk about humans instead of women? SO IT IS SEX OF THE HUMAN BEING, WHICH IS CONSIDERED IN ISLAM.

            Regarding Dayanand, for your kind information, whatever you have quoted, is the comment of Dayanand on the verse and not any verse itself as you claimed that Dayanand quoted it out of context! When will you grow up? You even dont understand the difference between verse and comments on a verse?

            Now comes, why did Swami Dayanand write this! So as you know that Muslims can loot, kill, abduct, rape the enemies (enemies are those who dont believe in Islam) and they are aided by Allah himself in these deeds. Thus Swami had to write that Muslims seek help of Allah in evil deeds. Now its just the definition of evil, which is different for you and Swami. For you, if someone invades your land, loots your country, forces his religion on you, abducts you daughters and sisters, rapes them, makes them slaves, sells them in market, all these are divine as per your books, but such acts were evil in the eyes of Dayanand.

            I feel proud that I follow the footsteps of a great man Swami Dayanand and not any pedophile, rapist, looter, self proclaimed prophet.

            IMPORTANT: SEEING YOUR LEVEL OF COMMENTS AND YOUR POOR UNDERSTANDING OF QURAN, HADITH ETC, POOR ANALYTICAL SKILLS AND FAILURE OF UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES AND LOGIC, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TO VISIT http://agniveer.com/terms/eligibility-rules-for-debate/ AND DO THE NEEDFUL.

            THANKS.

          • truefriend111111 says

            @VAJRA

            RALLY U DON’T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF VEDAS AS WELL AS ANY OTHER RELIGION
            ———————@—————@————————@———————–@—
            What about Sahih Bukhari and Muslim if these contain galat hadith? You did not answer it!
            ANSWER
            I HAD ANSWERED BEFORE REGARDING –SAHIH BUKHARI AND MUSLIM

            SAHIH BUKHARI AND MUSLIM ARE HADEES——–IN WHICH THERE ARE MANY THOUSANDS OF HADITHS——–OF THEM SOME ARE CONSIDERED AS SAHIH,zAEEEF(WEAK), WAHID(CLAIMED ONLY BY ONE),ETC.

            THE REASON IS THAT THOSE WERE NOT WRITTEN UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF THE PROPHET & AFTER 200-400 YEARS–AND ALSO THE DISCIPLE WERE NOT THE WITNESSES—SO U CAN SEE ANY HADITH STARTS WITH —FOR e.g. –ACCORDING TO ABU HURAIRA THE PROPHET SAID————AND NOT ACCORDING TO PROPHET.

            SUPPOSE I WANT TO COLLECT THE DATA REGARDING THE LIFESTYLE OF BHAGAT SINGH——-I WILL GO TO THE RESPECTIVE CITIES——AND AFTER COLLECTING THE DATA—-I’LL PRESENT IT AS ACCORDING TO SO AND SO PERSON BHAGAT SINGH WAS LEARNING IN THIS SCHOOL,ETC

            BUT ALL THE DATA CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS 100% RIGHT—BECAUSE IT IS ACCORDING TO THAT PERSON & NOT BHAGAT HIMSELF

            SO WHEN THE FILM REGARDING BHAGAT WAS RELEASED–THERE WAS AN CONTROVERSY GOING ON THAT THE FILM WAS NOT BASED ON THE TRUE REALITY.

            ____________#___________#____________#____________#________

            Regarding Dayanand, for your kind information, whatever you have quoted, is the comment of Dayanand on the verse and not any verse itself as you claimed that Dayanand quoted it out of context! When will you grow up? You even dont understand the difference between verse and comments on a verse?

            ANSWER:– SEE SATYARTH PRAKASH CH 14–CLAIMED BY DAYANAND

            DAY OF JUDGMENT
            Back to contents

            3. “The King of the day of judgment. Thee only do we worship and of Thee do we beg assistance. Direct thou us on the right path. “(1:2, 4, and 5.)

            C. ~ Does not God always administer justice. If He administers justice only on one particular day, He does wrong. It is right to worship Him and beg assistance of Him, but is this equally right to invoke His assistance in doing even evil deeds?

            ANSWER TO DAYANAND:-
            FIRST OF ALL WERE THE SENTENCE SAYS THAT WE SOULD SEEK HIS AID IN EVIL AND TRY TO READ THE FULL SENTENCE WITH CONTEXT—IT FURTHER SAYS TO SHOW THE STRAIGHT WAY ON WHOSE FAVOURS HAS BESTOWED AND NOT WRATH.

            SO DAYANAND IN HIS BOOK QUOTES THE VERSE OF THE QURAN AND SAYS:-It is right to worship Him and beg assistance of Him, but is this equally right to invoke His assistance in doing even evil deeds?

            QURAN IN THE QUOTED SENTENCE SAYS THAT WE SHOULD BEG ASSISTANCE —-AND FURTHER GOES ON AND SAYS

            Surah Fatiha Ch V-(5) Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek 6) Show us the straight way, (7) The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

            SO HE HIS TAKIMG SINGLE VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT AND INTERPRETING AS HE DOES VEDAS

          • truefriend111111 says

            @VAJRA
            DAYANAND OUT OF CONTEXT

            IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND ANY SCRIPTURE WE SHOULD READ IT FULL AND THEN INTERPRET.

            FOR.e.g–IN QURAN IT IS MENTIONED THAT
            1) DON’T OFFER NAMAZ—BUT THE FULL CONEXT IS –DON’T OFFER NAMAZ WHEN U HAD DRUNK ALCOHOL

            2) JESUS IS GOD—-BUT THE CONTEXT SAYS WHOEVER SAYS JESUS IS GOD IS DOING KUFR.

            3)KILL KAFIR WHEREEVER U FIND—-BUT THE WHOLE CONTEXT SAYS

            FOR THE CONTEXT U HAVE TO READ FROM THE VERSE 1 WHICH SPEAKS ABOUT AN PEACE TREATY WHICH WAS UNILATERALLY BROKEN BY THE MUSHRIKS OF THE MECCA AND THIS VERSE WAS REVEALED WHICH SAYS GIVE AN ULTIMATUM OF 4 MONTHS AND IF THE KAFIRS REPENT IT’S GOOD FOR THEM IF NOT THEN DECLARE WAR—AND IN THE BATTLEFIELD GOD SAYS WHEREVER U FIND AN KAFIR KILL HIM

            SUPPOSE AN WAR BREAKS OUT BETWEEN INDIA AND CHINA OBVIOUSLY THE ARMY GENERAL WILL SAY WHERE EVER U FIND AN CHINESE KILL HIM,BUT WILL NOT SAY RUNAWAY FROM THE BATTLEFIELD—THE QURAN IS ALSO SAYING THE SAME AND MUHAMMAD(SAW) DID THE SAME—

            AND FURTHER THE QURAN SAYS IN CH-5 V-6 IF ANY KAFIR SEEKS PEACE THEN NOT ONLY GRANT HIM PEACE. BUT TAKE HIM TO A PLACE OF SECURITY—IN TODAYS WORLD HOWMUCH THE ARMY GENERAL MAY BE MERCYFULL HE WILL SAY LET THE ENEMY GO-BUT ALLAH GOES ONE STEP FORWARD AND SAYS THAT NOT ONLY GRANT THEM PEACE BUT TAKE THEM TO A PLACE OF SECURITY.

            _____________#________________#______________#____________
            DAY OF JUDGMENT
            Back to contents

            3. “The King of the day of judgment. Thee only do we worship and of Thee do we beg assistance. Direct thou us on the right path. “(1:2, 4, and 5.)
            C. ~ Does not God always administer justice. If He administers justice only on one particular day, He does wrong.

            ANSWER:-FIRST OF ALL U HAVE TO KNOW WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THS LIFE ACCORDING TO QURAN LIFE IS AN TEST FOR THE HEREAFTER WHICH IS AN ETERNAL LIFE WHICH CHRISTIANS TOO BELIEVE
            Al-Baqara, Chapter2, Verse155-Be sure we shall TEST you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,

            Al-Maeda, Chapter5, Verse 94-O ye who believe! Allah doth but make a trial of you in a little matter of game well within reach of your hands and your lances, that He may TEST who feareth him unseen: any who transgress thereafter, will have a grievous penalty.

            SO IT IS THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT ON WHICH EVERY ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED AND NOT ON THE EARTH- ACCORDING TO QURAN.-

            IT IS THE DAY OF THE RESULT AND NOT THE ONLY PUNISHMENT DAY .THE PRESENT LIFE IS THE TEST FOR THE HEREAFTER.—

            ____________#_______________#_____________#____________#_

            IT IS LIKE A STUDENT SAYING THAT WE WANT DAILY RESULTS,BUT EXAM ONLY ONCE
            ———THIS LIFE IS THE TEST— IT’ RESULT IS ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY–

          • truefriend111111 says

            @VAJRA

            IT’S EASY TO SAY–SEEING YOUR LEVEL OF COMMENTS AND YOUR POOR UNDERSTANDING OF QURAN, HADITH ETC, POOR ANALYTICAL SKILLS AND FAILURE OF UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES AND LOGIC, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TO VISIT

            THEN POINT OUT WHERE –I AM WRONG–THAT TOO–WITH CORRECT TRANSLATION –WORD TO WORD–

            AS I DO WITH QURAN TEXT–

            CLAIM ANY THING FROM QURAN AND SAHIH HADITH–I’LL REFUET WITH WORD TO WORD MEANING

            SAHIH HADITH MEANS NOT ANYWHERE FROM THE WHOLE HADEES–BUT WHICH IS CONSIDERED AS SAHIH

            U UR’ SELF DON’T KNOW VEDAS –WHAT WILL U PREACH

          • adolf says

            Hi truefriend111111 ,

            THE PROPHET SAID:—The Prophet said: “I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were WOMEN who were ungrateful.

            Doesnt that indicate statistics of more women than men? In that case why are women created by god like that? god has some partiality?

            Also is belief in Allah necessary to go to heaven? If i replace Allah by God and pray will i go to heaven?

            Fire has the property to burn even if you believe or not.Why is my beief necessary to judge my activities?

  33. Abdullah says

    Read “GARUDA PURANA” to know the punishments in HELL. It is a Hindu scripture only. And you guys reject? You are playing double game with people.

    • Indian Agnostic says

      @Abdullah

      thank you for for the sane argument that ANY BOOK that talks about hell is a COMIC BOOK.

      as you know Agniveer’s position already you are free to discard both the comic books ..the quran and the garuda purana …congratulations for regaining your rationality :)

  34. fuser says

    where did the eternal matter come from??
    why there should be any eternal matter??
    where did the iswar n souls came from?? who made them??
    what is the source of energy for iswar??
    will he ever take rest??
    wont he be bored with the same eternal job??

    • Arya says

      Namaste fuser
      1. Eternal matter must also be beginningless. So it has to be there always.
      2. There is no further cause to the ultimate cause.
      3. Beginningless entities dont need creators. Who creates energy?
      4. Energy or capacity of Eeshvar is His nature (Swabhaav) which is inbuilt in Him just like hotness in fire.
      5. No, rest is needed for the tired ones. Eeshvar does not get tired.
      6. Nobody gets bored with his own nature, like you dont get bored with your consciousness, do you?

      best regards

      • Himashree says

        hey i hav read d article bt one
        thng is striking hard my mynd
        hard…

        cant dis be so
        God = energy = matter(d
        smallest constituent of matter)
        n Pakriti (NATURE) actly gav dat
        particle life(soul)……
        Dis sounds more scientific na….

        n if God is energy = matter
        (smallest possible particle),
        then it is obvious 1 single
        matter wont work……

        wot do u thnk?
        r my ideas out of tract

        • Himashree says

          nd if God = energy = matter

          then there must be antimatter also???

          then what wil be d conclusion??? EXPLOSION???

    • आर्यव्रतस्थ says

      Lets give this a try

      1 and 2) Energy and matter are inter-convertible,
      we already know energy can neither be created nor destroyed
      dont know the answer to number 3 , i guess will have to ask ishwar himself once in moksha :)
      (its can be thought of like this, anything that is created has a life span and thus an end, so if ishwar was created he would also be bound by a limited life span,which would mean ishwar would die,which inturn would mean that he is not ishwar,which is absurd and hence he always existed.)
      4)Ishwar is the energy himself and the its manifest as well
      5)Rest is required by creation not the creator ( not to judge ishwar by constraints of Humans and other created beings)
      6)Same as above for the last

  35. Anupam says

    I mean…what a website and what a post. Absolutely incredible. Such clarity of these concepts in such a easy manner of explanation….A rarity…

    I’ve heard many sermons of Vedic Sanyasees but this one is just superb. I just imagine if the world starts talking about such concepts, peace would certainly prevail….

  36. Himashree says

    hey i hav read d article bt one
    thng is striking hard my mynd
    hard…
    cant dis be so
    God = energy = matter(d
    smallest constituent of matter)
    n Pakriti (NATURE) actly gav dat
    particle life(soul)……
    Dis sounds more scientific na….
    n if God is energy = matter
    (smallest possible particle),
    then it is obvious 1 single
    matter wont work……
    wot do u thnk?
    r my ideas out of tract

    • says

      Namaste Himashree

      I could not get your point. Please put your questions with clarity. You can write in Hindi as well.

      Thanks

      • Himashree says

        Namaste

        agar God = energy hain…
        to God = matter

        energy n matter are interconvertible…

        bt there is a term called ‘Antimatter’ which is essential for an equilibrium state..newton’s law

        so antimatter according to VEDA kya hain???

        • says

          Namaste Himashree

          God aur Energy/matter same nahi hain. God uses energy/matter to make the universe in which us souls can perform our Karma and try to achieve bliss by doing good deeds.

          Anyway Newton’s laws do not talk of antimatter at all. Newtonian Mechanics only holds true for bulky bodies and not on particle level.

          Please remember, antimatter is nothing but particle(s) having same mass with opposite charge. So I dont find any reason to relate it with God. What say?

          • truth seeker says

            @Vajra

            then, can we say energy is property of God. Because if you say Energy & God different then God depend on energy to make the universe.

          • says

            Namaste truth seeker

            You can say that in vague terms. Main thing is that whether you call it His property or His tool, it remains UNDER HIS CONTROL. He is the owner of His property as well as whatever exists alongside Him. So lets call the matter/energy to be different from Him but under His control. What is the problem? Is it that God becomes dependent? No. Because then even if you call matter as His property, I can say that God is dependent on His property to make universe.

            So using your tools and traits nicely for a purposeful creation should not be called as dependency but exhibition of your intelligence.

          • Himashree says

            @ vajra

            God is the manager(understood)

            matter/energy is Pakriti(understood)

            soul is desire, will (very impressive)

            but what about Antimatter….i mean if matter exists, antimatter must also exist na for equilibrium state???

            So is God Antimatter??
            If so then God helps Nature to remain in an equilibrium state n thus helps Nature in conspiring with Soul for creation….???

            Or else Nature includes both matter and antimatter???

            If so God is somthng very different ….
            nd God doesnt need ne companion of His standard???

          • says

            Himashree

            You should include both matter and antimatter in Prakriti. Of course God is very different- He is conscious, wise, and blissful. God can only be One not many. So concept of any companion or enemy having same standard as God is not logical.

          • Himashree says

            @ vajra

            actly in reply to what are is Trinity?
            Agniveer repld

            God
            soul
            matter/energy duo

            so i asked…..

            d uniqueness v observe in every scientific theory…
            cant this be the property of Nature(matter)..
            nd Good and Evil be the property of Soul…

            n Antimatter jst help them in conspiring for creation by maintaining an equilibrium state…..???

            nd there must be somethng stopping d collision between antimatter and matter……

            So for creation,,, not 3 but 4 elements needed if Vedas and modern science matched…

          • says

            Himashree

            Matter and antimatter being physical entities should be covered under Prakriti and thus we require only three entities to explain everything.

            Eeshvar
            Souls
            Prakriti (matter and antimatter both)

  37. Himashree says

    this clearly
    depicts dat UR allah is concerned
    only about life on Earth….wot
    about Aliens???
    nd wot is this good thing??? wot
    about d bad thngs??? SATAN…
    ohk in dis creation of ALLAH (d
    perfect)……. where from SATAN
    came into human mynd ???
    Dis means Humans hav a WILL
    POWER wich ALLAH cannot control
    if so how can ALLAH be Perfect???

  38. anwar says

    bunch of punks attacking other faith look at your own faith and see how cow pissing your religion is. misguiding people to donate for stupid ignorant crap. even the most ignorant muslim will not belive crap your putting up. people like you read it and praise about all your silly nonsense articles.

    • KalBhairav says

      @anwar:

      If you can make substantive points against our arguments.

      Islam, theologically AND practically is a religion of war. We are merely pointing this out. We have a moral obligation to expose hate-mongering ideologies that threaten humankind.

    • adolf says

      @anwar,
      We saw that cow urine is useless and stopped using it. But you muslims are still hanging to the 7th century branch of killing an apostate, dividing humanity into believers and non believers,polygamy,peadophilia….last but not least you are still using camel cola and mullahs salaiva to cure diseases.

    • dharmayoddha says

      @anwar
      we bunch of punks attack other YOUR faith not others faiths because your third class religion divides humanity into believers and infidels and encourages to fight and kill kaffirs, and you expect we kaffirs cannot fight back? Go take a hike.

  39. Sanjay says

    I just skim and read through but there are several points of disagreements.

    God has many properties, which are detailed in vedas. God does not manage which would be another word for dictator. Gods properties are better described in the Vedas. Nature’s properties change and those properties are given by god. The souls relation to nature that is also described. Basically there is creation, destruction , and that which neither these three forces exist in nature identify by the trinity of three gods. It also exist in mathematics and seen in the number system and mathematical expressions which model the real world and is why mathematics works..

    Now the properties of soul never change, but the properties of nature is ever changing in the state of flux. It is said that some great souls have powers over nature for the reason for its properties for the reason of existence hence why time exist, and why does not universe collapse as nothing preventing from doing so. We talk of other forces the reason for existences so we say there is god who maintains this world. See the difference he is not managing the soul but maintaining the world, its properties, etc. in which the soul exist. Intertwine are the properties of nature good(satvik), bad(tamsic), and of passion. . . . . But there must be more reason for this, and question only grow, for why is a very big question?

    The soul or conscience is that element that does not change and is constant, whereas nature constantly changes. This is basic to Hindu dharma.

  40. KalBhairav says

    @Cantakeitnemore:

    As regards creation, here are my thoughts on it.

    (a)The WHY of creation is unanswerable by science. Religion engages in speculation, imo.
    (b)The question therefore is which amongst the competing speculations is logically/philosophically sound.
    (c)If ontological entities (Brahman, Atman, Prakriti) came into existence at a particular point in time, it raises questions as to why it didnt happen before. In physics there is a concept used to verify the universality of laws called the concept of mediocrity which asserts that no point in time or no position in space is priviledged over another. So, a universal law should not take recourse to specifics. So, if these entities arose ex-nihilo at a particular point in time, it raises more unanswerable questions.
    (d)The only alternative is to posit their eternal existence as Hinduism does.
    (e)That there indeed was a beginning to our current life on earth 13 Billion years ago is confirmed by science and called the Big Bang.
    (f)If you have a Big Bang AND you have an eternal sequence, the only logical conclusion is to believe in a creation, preservation and an “uncreation”. This is what Hinduism believes.

    • says

      @Kalbhairav- Another question is, WHAT happened BEFORE that? I see what Hinduism believes but it still does not answer the question, what is the purpose of my existence ? What is the purpose of anybody’s existence ? How is my existence any different from your’s? Why do we live the way we do ? And then, why do we die ? And why don’t we remember anything before we were created ?

      @Vajra -If we never existed, we would have never discussed. What difference would it have made to anything or anyone ? We just wouldn’t exist.
      Have you ever passed out/fainted ? That time, you don’t remember a thing from that time, its totally different from sleeping. So it would be just like that, simply not being. I hope you get my point ?

      • KalBhairav says

        @Cantakeitnemore:

        what is the purpose of my existence ?…

        Here I have to throw up my hands because Hindus take Vedas as axiomatic. Any further question is futile. One can only rationalize what the Hindu scriptures say. Beyond this, one can only self-experience the truths. As the Ashtavakra Gita says in its conclusion – “No more can be said”.

        So, the Hindu answer is, the purpose of life is to obtain Moksha from the cycles of birth and death. Also, Hinduism says that “you” (your self) doesnt die. It is because of its false association with its finite bodily experiences that it feels afraid of death. Some people DO remember their earlier lives. Some people are young prodigies who can point out to places on the maps, recite the Gita, correctly tell the days of a date decades ago, etc. and the only way that I think this can happen is if there is some spillover vestigial knowledge from an earlier life. This knowledge dissipates as one grows and begins to associate their “I” ness with their bodily senses and immediate cultural surroundings.

        • says

          So I guess it leaves us alone to keep wondering then ?
          From what I gather, Vedas are look like a set of observations made over a long period of time by the then scientists and spiritualists who were looking for answers, just like we(including the quantum physicists) do now. But they never found one. And now we are doing the same thing all over again, but to no avail, yet ?

      • says

        @cantakeitmore

        ———-And why don’t we remember anything before we were created ?————

        We were never created, it is told so many times. So there is nothing like “before” creation. Please read our previous responses.

        ———-If we never existed, we would have never discussed. What difference would it have made to anything or anyone ?———

        Nothing because neither “anything” nor “anyone” would exist then! But your question is irrelevant because WE DO EXIST. To whom you are asking all this? Who is responsible for your (soul’s) existence? It is none, thus this is a useless exercise to consider/discuss this imaginary case of non existence again and again.

        ———-Have you ever passed out/fainted ? That time, you don’t remember a thing from that time, its totally different from sleeping. So it would be just like that, simply not being. I hope you get my point ?———-

        Its not wise to correlate memory with existence. Because you surely dont remember what happened to you when you were 3 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours 56 minutes and 31second, what were you doing at that time etc. But that certainly is not at all the proof of your non existence at that time. And your analogy goes against what you want to establish. Someone has to EXIST before he passed out and it is purely an ABNORMAL state when one cant remember anything. So your example only suggests that the feeling of non existence is ABNORMAL/UNNATURAL state.

        And you did not respond to my previous question-

        Why you think existence is pointless? Is it really you believe?

        • says

          —-We were never created, it is told so many times. So there is nothing like “before” creation. Please read our previous responses.—
          How can something always exist ?
          —Why you think existence is pointless? Is it really you believe?—
          I don’t believe anything. I am trying to find out. I think it is pointless because I don’t see any reason/logic to it. There is no aim to our lives. What is the purpose of all the things we experience, suffer, enjoy ? Why are our lives full of complex emotions, troubles and everything that is? When I think about the answer, it comes out as nothing. I usually don’t ask people around me because they start thinking that I’m suicidal but that’s really not the case.
          Given a choice, I’ll choose not to exist. You’ll probably say it is a fallacy because to make a choice I’ll have to exist in the first place. But that’s not what I’m saying. I don’t know how to explain.

          • says

            @Cantakeitnemore

            ———How can something always exist ?———

            So now you have come to “how” from “why”. But anyway as KalBhairav stated earlier, belief in eternal existence is more logical than that of coming into being from nothing at some point in time. Please refer to his post.

            ———–I don’t believe anything.———-

            That is the problem :( But thats not the true case! When you question something, you have to have a stand based on which you ask/demand/analyze the answer. Saying that you dont believe anything is WRONG. Its just that you need to think calmly what do you actually think. When you question existence, do you question non existence as well? No. you dont, it means you favor non existence in discussions (will talk about your actions later!).

            ———– I think it is pointless because I don’t see any reason/logic to it.————

            Do you know that even logic are relative? No logic of humans is absolute. So you need to COMPARE the two cases and choose more logical one. So question “non existence” the same way as you do to “existence” and then compare both cases and decide which is MORE logical.

            ———– There is no aim to our lives. ———-

            Eternity does not make one aimless. Your aim is what your traits suggest. You are here to discuss to share/give/take knowledge that gives you satisfaction. So trying to get satisfaction/bliss/happiness is our objective. This has been called Moksha in Vedic Dharma.

            ———- What is the purpose of all the things we experience, suffer, enjoy ? …. When I think about the answer, it comes out as nothing.———

            You may start with http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/ in this regard. I am sure your perception will change.

            ———–they start thinking that I’m suicidal but that’s really not the case.———–

            This proves that YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF EXISTENCE instead of non existence :) At least your actions/decisions to remain alive depict so!

            ————Given a choice, I’ll choose not to exist…

          • says

            @Cantakeitnemore

            ————Given a choice, I’ll choose not to exist.————

            No you misunderstood yourself! See above what I wrote.

  41. says

    Awesome..

    my logics were almost similar
    i feel lot happier to find the similar answers

    but my doubts are still existing

    that is
    1. i feel that “After attaining Moksha you act like god himself , there will not be any difference between the two except they being two souls”
    2. after attaining moksha they will not be bound by karma as they can attain moksha only if there is no karma with them
    and they have become super souls by now even if they come on earth they will live like gods among us like krishn etc
    3. there are innumerable number of souls so the process keep on happening i think, as each cell in animal is also a soul remember!!
    and the universe is vast considering Bhagavad Geetha it is highly rare like 0.0000…….0000001 of probability where people have understood
    4. why is it necessary to have a balance between number of people attaining Brahman to be equal to number of people coming from (if people can comeback from it whats so special about that place)Brahman

    • says

      3. there are innumerable number of souls so the process keep on happening i think, as each cell in animal is also a soul remember!!
      and the universe is vast considering Bhagavad Geetha it is highly rare like 0.0000…….0000001 of probability where people have understood

      **3. there are innumerable number of souls so the process keep on happening i think, as each cell in animal is also a soul remember!!
      and the universe is vast considering Bhagavad Geetha it is highly rare like 0.0000…….0000001 of probability where people have understood God

  42. Laks says

    Wonderful article..I feel as if I got the answer for the puzzle!!..I am lucky that I came across this website.
    I have a doubt ..Please clarify..
    I believe Astrology. Has Veda’s mention about astrology anywhere?..how positions of the planets are linked to our life?
    I feel ‘Astrology’ is one more way God wants to help us?
    As per the statement in the beginning of this article – “Whatever is happening with us in our life is as per our own efforts till last moment. And we can change the course of our destiny through present and future efforts.”
    it seems our life events are NOT a planned one. We can change the course of our life as per our WILL. If so, is ‘Astrology’ – the very old mathematical science is not right?..

    Thank you

  43. Spirit says

    Brother cantakeitmore, vajra brother was nicely making u understand of the fact. Causes are because of cause. There is cause behind every phenomenon. Thus when u search the causes one after another, u ud get an ultimate cause. Now u can ask what is the cause bhind ultimate cause. That ud b childish. How a human body forms? From a single sperm, right? Now what is the reason bhind the formation of sperm? Gradually u ud get nearer to supreme cause aftr vch u hav to answer. So it is better accept there is no cause bhind supreme cause. Dhanyawad

  44. raj.hyd says

    agar ek kamre me kuran ho aur usi me das lakh rupaye rakhe ho , tab sabse pahale kisko bachayenge rupya niakalenge ya kuran ko ?

  45. raj.hyd says

    muslom kaha karte hai ki kuran allah ka kalam hai ?kaise hai jara batlaye ? kuran ko kisi farishte ke madhyam se kyo bheja gaya ? kya farishte jinn hote hai ? iska sabut kya hai ? jokurani allah sari kaynat banane kisi ki sahayta nahi letaa vah 23 sal ke dauran kuran ka sandesh dene me farishto ki sahayta kyo leta tha ? allah satve asman me kaise hai ? kya satvan asman hota hai ? kuran me kaha gaya hai ki 8 farishte kurani allah ka singhasan uthaye huye hai us par kurani allah virajman hai usse to malum hota hai ki 8 farishte “simit” singhasan simit fir us par baitha hua kurani allah simit kyo nahi hoga? satva asman bhi simit ? jo simit ho itni vishal kaynat kaise bana sakta hai? dehiye kuran 38/75 jisme kurani allah kahate hai ki hamne adam ko “dono hatho” se banaya ? jiske dono hath ho vah allah kaise ho sakta hai isliye kuran sansar banane vale ki nahi ho sakti? batlaiye kya koi muslim iska uttar dega ?

  46. Human says

    Vajra Ji, this applies to hidutwa also, why did Eshwar created human beings to worship him? or as you say why your respective dieties turn away their faces to those who do not worship them ???

    • Truth Seeker says

      @Human
      Who the bastered told you God created us for fulfilling its worshiping desire of itself. Only Shaitan think like this.

    • GOD IS GREAT says

      Dear! One thing I must tell you. If you are an atheist than it is fine. You have freedom of religion. But if you are a Muslim, (you are free to practice any belief in India), I would request NOT to insult humanity by naming yourself as a human. Islam is a curse upon humanity. NOT only Agniveer but world’s top thinkers have accepted this. A Proverb says – NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE IN THIS WORLD. The only exception to this great rule is: Muslims cannot be a true human. Almost everyone admits that the Muslims are worst than even the biggest criminals.

      Proof: http://godofreason.com/user/image/islamevilinthenameofgodebook.pdf

      So, don’t insult humanity.

      Answering your question!!! Please refer the text of Madhawacharya. In his book of Savadarshansamgraha, he says that Hindus tolerated even Atheism => Hindus don’t believe in GOD creating for self worship. Hindus aren’t Muslims. Regarding deities turning away their faces. Where you find such funny things (Hindus worship Vigrahas and how can a Vigraha turn away face on its own?) in authentic Hindu books. I don’t find any deity turning away face to NON worshiper in Vedas.

  47. Human says

    sorry to interrupt, but Kapilji kya aap punya nahin kamana chahtey??
    Ok leave it, my question is- aaap paap aur punya me se kya kamana chahtey hain aur kyun kamana chahtey hain ???

  48. Karna says

    Namaste Great Souls ( Agniveer, Arya, Vajra, Indian Agnostic & KalBhairav)

    I’m a bit confused. I’ve heard since birth that “Everything we see around or can even imagine of belongs to the Supreme Being”. The Universe ( Brahmaan) and Souls (Atman) are nothing but his manifestations. A question, that what was before creation doesn’t come as there was never such time when universe didn’t exist. The real question is “Why doesn’t now Supreme Being merge himself with the universe & souls and end all this creation to be in perfect balance where souls do not experience good or bad, happiness or sorrow, winters or summers etc. & not even the feeling of self ‘I’ ?”
    “What is exactly in clear terms meant by ‘Moksha’ ?” I’ve heard it means to be in union with God and never take birth again but what’s the proof who knows what happens after death ?

    Thanks in advance for your answer
    Karna

    • says

      Namaste Brother Karna

      ——–I’ve heard since birth that “Everything we see around or can even imagine of belongs to the Supreme Being”.——-

      Eeshvar being greatest, wisest, mightiest, creator (who reshuffles elementary particles of Prakriti to create meaningful universe), and controller, deserves to be Supreme. And since nothing is beyond His control, everything is said to belong to Him.

      ——-The Universe ( Brahmaan) and Souls (Atman) are nothing but his manifestations.——

      No. Here Agniveer differs. There are three eternal (beginningless and endless) entities as per Vedic Philosophy. None of these three is manifestation of other(s).

      ——what was before creation doesn’t come as there was never such time when universe didn’t exist.——

      It means that there was no time when Prakriti (physical particles) did not exist. Of course universe is created and destroyed in cyclic manner. But destruction is nothing but disjointing of adjoined particles. And creation means adjoining of disjoint particles.

      ——–The real question is “Why doesn’t now Supreme Being merge himself with the universe & souls——-

      Because He can’t change His properties, neither can He create something out of nothing nor He can destroy something to nothing. A perfect entity never changes. His knowledge is perfect always.

      ——-“What is exactly in clear terms meant by ‘Moksha’ ?”———–

      As per our understanding, Moksha is a state where soul does not need to undergo the cycle of birth and death for a very long time. During this period soul explores Eeshvar and His creation further and gets uninterrupted knowledge, love, and bliss of Eeshvar in the process.

      Please go through this series carefully. Last two articles deal with Moksha. Top 5 talk about Eeshvar, soul and universe. Hope that will address most of your queries. http://agniveer.com/series/vedic-lessons/

        • Karna says

          :D Thanks for a beautiful explanation @Vajra Brother. I’ll surely read all the articles before asking any question regarding the “Trinity”. By great souls I meant “Mahatma”, cause all of you are really doing a great job!! Every soul no doubt is potentially equal, but some do perform remarkable feats and are liable to be called great souls. Raising voice against & eradicating fanaticism and irrationality from its very root is not an easy task. Mother earth must be proud to have you guys. Someday I also hope to join Agniveer team to do selfless service for mankind.
          -Karna

  49. Okunnel says

    Nothing material/phyisical exists for ever. This is what you observe in the world. Do you mean to say the nature/Prakriti existed eternal with God ? Nature proves that everything that exists in material form should perish. SO, was the nature/Prakriti material or spiritual in the beginning..? And if it was spiritual then God “created” the present world in material form ?..

    How can anything other than God be co-eternal with God.. ? Then that should also be a God, I think. Anything that is immortal should be absolutely powerful too. Are soul and nature then as powerful as God ?

    • KalBhairav says

      @Okunnel:

      Nothing material/phyisical exists for ever.
      Not in the same form, but it just transforms from one to another. From nothing you get nothing. So, if we have material/physical stuff, it came out of preexisting material/physical stuff. Do you believe hell is material/physical? I am curious now. ;-)
      Do you mean to say the nature/Prakriti existed eternal with God ?
      Absolutely.
      SO, was the nature/Prakriti material or spiritual in the beginning..?
      Please clarify what you mean by material/spiritual in the context of this question. Prakriti was simply unmanifest in Pralaya [dissolution]. This means that it was existing in subtle form. For instance, the butter is unmanifest/subtle in milk. Like that Prakriti and Purusha existed in subtle/unmanifest form. Note that in Vedanta ontology, Prakriti and Purusha are eternal entities that are completely dependent on God. An analogy for this is the sun rays [dependent] and the sun [independent]. Yet, both the sun and the sun rays are co-eternal.
      How can anything other than God be co-eternal with God.. ?
      Why not? It really depends on ontology. See analogy above. Do you think time is co-eternal with God?
      Anything that is immortal should be absolutely powerful too.
      Not necessary. Why do you think so?

  50. KalBhairav says

    @Vijay SJ:

    You completely miss the point here. The point of the article is if God exists, why would he create? This article is not arguing for the existence or non-existence of God.

  51. says

    All Why can GOD cannot create SOUL if he is all powerfull,please do reply.I need answer to this.Matter I understand but why not SOUL.WHy he canot create and destroy SOul.

    • Okunnel says

      God created the Soul. There is nothing outside God that was not created. God created soul. It did not come into existence by itself. To call God, God, he has to be the creator of all

  52. DEV says

    Agniveer Ji

    Please let me know any logical point when GOD is all powerfull why he cannot create Soul and Matter.

    Thanks

  53. Raj says

    It is a good article.

    We can see progress in this article from believing in God as the Creator of the Souls to one who is just directing the Universe. Seems if this article evolves further, we can see it agreeing with the Jain theory of the Universe.

    Jain theory says that Nature has been and will be. Souls have been and will be.
    The only difference is that instead of Iswar or God – the Jains have identified Karmraj as the reason behind the cycle of birth and death.

    So according to the Jains there is a Soul, there is Nature and there is Karma.

    Again, I do not mean to say that the Jain theory that I have understood gives a perfect explanation. I just mean to say that your article evolves to agree or come very close to the Jain theory of existence.

    Whereas, Buddha has professed ignorance and doubt as regarding a Creator, and hence Buddhism is a agnostic religion, the Jains have been atheists – that is not believing in a Creator God. To that extent, your article somewhat comes close to that of the Jain view.

    Jainism, the most eco friendly religion, is the need of the hour to fight blatant and unbridled consumerism and violence.

    • Raj says

      Having said the above, I do find many similarities between the Vedic way of life and the Jain way of life.

      Finally and ultimatley, it is the Indian way of life.

      Agniveer site is doing a good job in connecting the Hindu mind with the Indian culture. India is our home and the thousands of years of Hindu/Jain/Buddhist/Sikh wisdom has gone into making this culture a rich one.

    • Sanatan Dharma says

      @aoun sadiq
      Brother, As per eternal Religion Three entity God, Soul, And Prakriti (Prikriti primordial form of matter) are eternal. There was not a time when soul, Prakriti not exist. These three entity are coeval. The things which have a beginning must have to face its end. If is not eternal it must have to die. But it is general belief souls never dies. That means it has no beginning. Rigveda mandal 10, sukta 129 states that like potter makes pot from clay, similarly God creates universe from non-alive matter prakriti which is uncreated eternal. Prakriti is unseen matter. From unseen matter, the whole universe is created in the visible form. Science also says that matter is never destroyed but changes its form. Suppose a paper is burnt, paper changes its form into ashes. Then ashes are crushed and thrown in air. At this moment, the paper changed into ashes becomes invisible but was never destroyed. Similarly the whole universe at the time of final destruction is turned into prakriti i.e., into unseen form.

  54. Mary Walker says

    I get this is an Hindus’ website.

    I have some serious questions that I often pose to religious persons. But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.

    To all Hindus:

    How do you know if your God is the true God?
    How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
    Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
    What is unique in your religious book that force you to believe in it?
    Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism as there are so many religions?

    Can anyone address to all my questions?

    • hinduagnostic says

      first when you say religions you talking sikhism,islam,christianity,judaism,zotastrianism,baha, when you talk spirtual philisophical way of lifes you are talking hinduism,buddhism,jainism,taoism,confuism and hinduism accepts both the athiestic and thiestic side but in my opinion through studying different beliefs espically abrahamic beliefs i find sikhism and hinduism the most logical and better they are one of the possibilities

      • Mary Walker says

        hinduagnostic,
        “first when you say religions you talking sikhism,islam,christianity,judaism,zotastrianism,baha, when you talk spirtual philisophical way of lifes you are talking hinduism,buddhism,jainism,taoism,confuism and hinduism accepts both the athiestic and thiestic side”

        Yup! You got it right. because I’m a not an Atheist rather I believe in creator/God. but I don’t understand why people believe in certain religion. why they are content? to prove either god/creator exist or not is beyond the human experience, mostly concept of god (what should god want/ how should b god) are based on religions, but how someone sure of his religion?
        how do they know what god want from us,as we cant acces to god?

        “but in my opinion through studying different beliefs especially abrahamic beliefs i find sikhism and hinduism the most logical and better they are one of the possibilities”

        So you say you have studied all religions( yup studying all faiths is the right way , seems to b logical)& you find sikhism & hinduism the most logical & better, so now are you a hindu or a sikh? or both? the concept of god/creator maybe b differ in both of religions, does not it?

        You didn’t comment on all questions , will you?

        • Jay says

          Why do we have to justify ourselves to you? If you don’t like any religion good for you. We have no interest in convincing you to believe in anything. No one is asking you to believe in Hinduism. We are not like the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Islam. We cannot give you answers to your own journey. You need to find the answers to these questions for yourself. Study Hinduism if you like and see if it strikes you. If not move on and learn about another faith. May be no faith is suitable for you.

          • Jay says

            ” But unfortunately people don’t give satisfactory answers.”
            To you, as you are acting the judge to other people’s reasons for why they believe and why they are satisfied. But what satisfies others may not satisfy you, and why should other people try to satisfy you? You are no queen and we are not part of your court trying to please you. We are not here to give you satisfactory answers. Our lives do not revolve around you. No one cares if you are satisfied with the answers of why others believe. Why we believe is not necessarily going to be the answer to why you should believe. You are being lazy. Go study in depth different faiths to find your own answers to your questions. That is the way to get answers that satisfy yourself because only you know what you are looking for and what clicks with you.

          • Mary walker says

            jay,
            “Why do we have to justify ourselves to you?”
            you dont ‘have to’ justify yourself to me. its like your saying im forcing you with a ‘high hand’ to justify yourselves to me. what my way is just if any religious person is willing to answer , then very well, if not then no problem, it would b ok.
            ” You are being lazy. Go study in depth different faiths”
            Actually im not being lazy, im studying , what bewildered me i dont find answer while others are content.
            “Go study in depth different faiths to find your own answers to your questions. That is the way to get answers that satisfy yourself because only you know what you are looking for and what clicks with you.”
            yes thats d way. i agree with all those who are suggesting me to study different faiths.
            ”You are no queen and we are not part of your court trying to please you. We are not here to give you satisfactory answers. Our lives do not revolve around you. ”
            i know actually the people are not to b blame when i dont find there answers satisfactory, what clicks thm dont click me or vice verca. im not saying im queen im not forcing anyone so dont b at cross purposes with me.

        • hinduagnostic says

          which ever belief you want to believe in depends on faith and logic and reasoning then maybe comptability to sciene sikhism and hinduism are similar but sikhism is a religion wherre all sikhs follow same thing while hinduism has different philisophies but now days most hindus follow the same philisophy and many of the other philisophies are followed in small numbers i follow hinduism and sikhism bit of both as they are similar as sikhism actually comes from hinduism exceot they believe in 5ks and follow 10 gurus which hinduism doesnt have it is not based on a founder and it doesnt have a founder and their are also other differences i believe in logical reasoning and i believe hinduism and sikhism answer large number of these questions i use think a deist god is a possibility but not anymore as a deist god would have no reason to create the universe and not interact with his creation in anyway you should go through the articles on this site if it seems good accept it if not reject it

    • Ankur says

      @Mary walker:
      This is a Vedic(root of Hinduism) website and not that of contemporary hinduism.
      Would suggest you browse the website and go through the articles rather than asking question which do not have one line answers but still to give you a start i will try to be concise.

      1) there is no your god or my god, they only thing one has to be sure of is the validity of the path to achieve him/her/it. People who believe that they know the truth of GOD will never ever know GOD.
      2) because it the most logical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.
      3) Yes, that’s how it starts, one validates the documentation at the experience levels and in every day of the living life, and when ones experiences are in line with the scriptures, you know that it’s the way to go.
      4) refer point 2
      5)refer point 2

      Again , please go through the post on this website regarding the Vedic Hindu belief system and the concept of GOD, then come back if required, and yes one does not need to follow a particular religion( to be precise belief and life system in case of Vedism called DHARMA),But At least one should have the basic COURTESY of honouring the particular belief system by associating with it which has answered the questions that an individual has at a spiritual level, rather than trying to carve out and claim their own space for their spiritual ideologies which were fostered by a particular belief system.

      • Ankur says

        @Mary Walker : Actually Question i rephrase
        2) because it the most logical & Practical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.

        • Mary Walker says

          Ankur,
          First, thanks for your comments on my questions.

          “This is a Vedic(root of Hinduism) website and not that of contemporary hinduism.”
          For me this thing is enough that this is a websites belongs to some sorts religious people.

          “Would suggest you browse the website and go through the article”
          I want to know the personal feelings/ experience for one’s religion for their religion. I want to know how they believe, why they believe, how they feel & why they are content? What are the factors which make them to believe in certain religion.

          “1) there is no your god or my god, they only thing one has to be sure of is the validity of the path to achieve him/her/it………”
          The problem is that every religious person is sure of the validity of his path.

          “1)………….People who believe that they know the truth of GOD will never ever know GOD.”
          Means one’s seeking the truth/ knowledge can should not come to endpoint.

          “2) because it the most logical & Practical of all and answers much more than any other existing belief system does.”
          So do you mean to say you have found “all” the practical & logical answers? okk , amazing!

          • Ankur says

            @Mary Walker:
            I want to know the personal feelings/ experience for one’s religion for their religion. I want to know how they believe, why they believe, how they feel & why they are content? What are the factors which make them to believe in certain religion.
            Thats why i told you to browser through the articles and then come back!

            The problem is that every religious person is sure of the validity of his path.
            because there is no sincere comparative study

            Means one’s seeking the truth/ knowledge can should not come to endpoint.
            it should come to the end point only when the end point is actually reached not before.

            So do you mean to say you have found “all” the practical & logical answers? okk , amazing!
            is there a specific reason you translated my “MOST” into “ALL” or are so gripped in your limited preconceptions and mental abilities of comprehension.

    • Madhukar says

      Mary Walker@ Here I have tried to make u understand your questions (as per my opinion). I don’t ask u to get satisfied by it, but I think it will help u understand something abt your questions:
      How do you know if your God is the true God?
      Please don’t draw a line to differentiate between your god and my god, like boundary between your country and mine. I worship to God, the supersoul (parmatma/Ishwar). You are superimposing upon me that he is my God. Actually he is one and only one and I believe in it. God is not different for different religions, he is one for all.

      How do you know if your religion is the true religion?
      Hinduism original name is sanatan dharma, which means eternal religion. The dharm(religion) which Hinduism teaches about, is not the religion which other group teaches about. Other religion thinks that religion is a mechanical set of doing activities like praying, beliving in this or that etc, and if u don’t do it, ur not following religion and making god angry. They don’t allow practices of other religion (evn if it is good) and usually say that people who don’t follow their religion, will go to hell. But Hinduism is totally different. For us, dharm (religion), is the attribute/ feature of existence of a thing. It talks abt the everlasting religion of a soul- God. Whatever mechanical ways of praying, living etc a person follows, his religion remains one- God. This is the reason why hindus practices different paths, while still not being declared of non hindus. Because we know, path can be different, but aim is one-God. Hinduism says that every human can go to heaven (good birth or salvation) if he do good action.Every thing, movable or non movable, it has its religion. The religion of human is to connect with God, religion of fire is to burn , religion of water is to make wet, religion of mother is to care for child, religion of king is to protect his subjects and make them happy etc etc. Any thing should not deviate from its eternal religion. So Hinduism believes in following only and only truth. It don’t push us to follow only one path, rather it gives us total freedom to follow the truth. Hinduism always focus on a person to use his own intelligence and realize the absolute truth. It gives guidance to a person, and focuses that we have to travel on our path ourselves.

      Have you ever thought your religion maybe a false religion?
      Our religion is to connect our soul with the God. Do u think it is false?

      What is unique in your religious book that force you to believe in it?
      The uniqueness of hindu’s religious book (actually it is meant fr every human) is that it never force us! There is no primarily condition that u should have believe in Hinduism for reading hindus book. Because after reading it, u will yourself analyze it and find it good! It will show u path towards truth, but never force you! It talks about spirituality and helps us to understand god and connect ourselves with him. Its open for all human, and don’t depends upon his communal religion.

      Why do you choose to believe in Hinduism as there are so many religions?
      Neither Hinduism is a religion like other religions of the world, nor does it ask to choose it. It is not in the mad race like other religions. It is a philosophy which guides a soul towards God and is based on the intuitions of great sages felt over millions of years. Hinduism accepts truth from every source and is not restricted to a person. It is not based on a blind dogma or belief preached by a particular person, rather it has been contributed by a number of saints and rishi muni. And yeah, these teachings are same as teaching given by God directly to humans. There is no compulsion to choose Hinduism, because it believes in using personal intellect and intelligence to understand truth, rather than forcing anyone by scaring him. This is the reason y u will find promotion of conversions in major religions of world, but hardly u will listen that Hinduism speak abt conversion! Hinduism spread is teaching to every human, and a person from any religion can follow it without converting himself into hindu. Hinduism rises above communal religion and teach abt eternal religion. I believe in ideology of Hinduism, nt because I am born in hindu family, but because my inner mind finds it logical and helps me to understand God and connect with him. Even if I was born in non hindu family, I would have followed the teaching of Hinduism, without being forced to convert my self into a hindu.

    • Dharma Somashekar says

      1. We have 32 million Devas, and they are NOT “GOD” they are the 5 cognitive elements , Prithvi apa jothi vayu akasha , their manifestations and other forces in nature like sun moon , vidyuth , sea, rain , indra ect and their manifestations which could well run beyond 32 million who help in the running of the Universe , they are governed by the 3 main powers called Brahma , Vishnu , Maheshwara. we worship them for they are our providers.
      formless, we have ONE Paramatma , who is not HE/SHE without form who will not punish or reward us , we believe we are a manifestation of THIS paramatman , so we are none other than the Paramatman. SO none of these fit into YOUR concept of “G.O.D.” and we don’t need your concept of GOD
      2 Ours IS NOT a religion , because we believe in FREEDOM and would never walk into a cage called religion.
      3. IF my existence is FALSE then it can be false , since i exist , it exists.
      4 FREEDOM to think , Is the essence of my school of thinking , and nothing is more valuable than FREEDOM
      5 i choose it because it respects me as an individual and does not IMPOSE rules on ME. it gives suggestions and lets me make my decision.

  55. Mary walker says

    Vicjags,
    The notion of believing in God the creator has been around for centuries, this belief has not come around out of nothing, religion is important and has been the very means for man to understand God (to a extent) but it should based on logic, should make sense . I choose to believe in “God” a creator of ALL living things, the Universe everything in general, not just us human beings. The fundamental Ideal I do associate with God is goodness, to strive to be a good person in
    this life. I myself am no saint, but I am trying to be a better person every day, to live my life as pure and good as I can. because this is the main thing that makes sense to me. I believe God made us to evolve and to grow over time to eventually learn that we all live and we will all die I do agree with many things the bible states, but not all, becus there are flaws so i don’t like to call myself as a christian, Christianity disappoint me . This is an open secret the bible has been re-interpretted over time. so simply i believe in God because it makes sense to me.
    it is not strange if someone believe in god but not in religion, people do just like many other beliefs, but you may find such people in a minority because majority choose to b religious or to b atheist.

    • Mary walker says

      Vicjags,
      ”Are you willing to consider God as a manager??”
      of cors, im willng.
      as 4 god is 1 or 2 or countless.
      as v know well we cant meet god so i shud think logicaly either god is one or not. if god can b 2 , then definitely he can be 3 or he can 4 or so on. if i say god is one then all other possibilities automatically vanished, so considering god is one satisfy me more than considering god is more than 1. if god can b more than 1 then he can be 2 or 3 or 4 or…….. infinite – by considering god is more than one i can never guess that he is exactly ‘2’ or exctly ‘3’ or exctly ‘5’ or so on. if he is 2 then y not 3 or y not countless. will choose such things to believe in what seem to b logical to me im careless wht relgious polytheist say.
      are you religious? u did not comment on my questions, will you ?

    • Ankur says

      @VicJags : Do you see how you fall in line with
      http://agniveer.com/why-did-god-create-us/#comment-34124
      Again , please go through the post on this website regarding the Vedic Hindu belief system and the concept of GOD, then come back if required, and yes one does not need to follow a particular religion( to be precise belief and life system in case of Vedism called DHARMA),But At least one should have the basic COURTESY of honouring the particular belief system by associating with it which has answered the questions that an individual has at a spiritual level, rather than trying to carve out and claim their own space for their spiritual ideologies which were fostered by a particular belief system.
      You are affirming and quoting the vedic philosophy verbatim but fail to give the credit to the mother Ideology AKA Vedic KS, and claim to follow Christianity and believe as Christ being the saviour
      Hidden Agenda/Malicious Intent?

      • Ankur says

        @vicjags : Is this how you acknowledge your religious plagiarism .. by laughing at it. or is it intrinsic to christain/your proselytism
        making the efforsts more effective as core christainty fails at explaining concepts like these to an acceptable level of logic.

  56. Arka Mondal says

    1. Who really knows, and who can swear,
    How creation came, when or where!
    Even gods came after creation’s day,
    Who really knows, who can truly say
    When and how did creation start?
    Did He do it? Or did He not?
    Only He, up there, knows, maybe;
    Or perhaps, not even He.

    — Rig Veda 10.129.1-7

    2.Rigveda (10.121) also mentions the Hiranyagarbha (literally, golden embryo/womb/egg) that existed before the creation. This metaphor has been interpreted differently by the various later texts. The Samkhya texts state that Purusha and the Prakriti made the embryo, from which which the world emerged. In another tradition, the creator god Brahma emerged from the egg and created the world, while in yet another tradition the Brahma himself is the Hiranyagarbha.[19] The nature of the Purusha, the creation of the gods and other details of the embryo creation myth have been described variously by the later Hindu texts.

    The early hymns of Rigveda also mention Tvastar as the first born creator of the human world.[20]

    3.Many of the Hindu philosophies mention that the creation is cyclic.[17]:104 According to the Upanishads, the universe and the Earth, along with humans and other creatures undergo repeated cycles (pralaya) of creation and destruction. A variety of myths exist regarding the specifics of the process, but in general the Hindu view of the cosmos is as eternal and cyclic. The later puranic view also asserts that the universe is created, destroyed, and re-created in an eternally repetitive series of cycles. In Hindu cosmology, a universe endures for about 4,320,000,000 years (one day of Brahma, the creator or kalpa)[26] and is then destroyed by fire or water elements. At this point, Brahma rests for one night, just as long as the day. This process, named pralaya (Cataclysm), repeats for 100 Brahma years (311 trillion, 40 billion human years) that represents Brahma’s lifespan

    Going with 1,Vedas cannot be sent by God nor any better than a fictional writer or novelist as it says God came after creation.
    Going with 2,its metaphorical.
    which one you believe?
    A religious books should be truthful and flawless.Vedas contain slokas and mantras for gaining material gains.it does not contain any decisive conclusion on creationism.Agniveer,how do we believe it?

    • Madhukar says

      I am not completly able to understand wht you are trying to say because i find the common meaning in all the three points. Let me explain it hw:
      1. Gods came after creation, these are several dietes (demi gods). Here it is not said that the Creator ( souper soul ) came from the creation!
      2. Brahma is said to be the creator of world, and he made world out of “Hiranyagarbha (literally, golden embryo/womb/egg) that existed before the creation”. “the creator god Brahma emerged from the egg and created the world, while in yet another tradition the Brahma himself is the Hiranyagarbha”. This all means that Bhrama is making the entire world.
      3. The manisfestion starts at bhrama’s day and unmenifest at Brahma’s night. Several such night and day(Brahma day) make Brahma’s life span!

      But the Brahma itself is a function of supersoul, He is not the complete supersoul! Thats y we see Lord Brahma as a part of triology (Brahma, Vishnu Mahesh). Thes are the functions of Soupersoul seen from our point of view. Actually, he is the same !

      So all the three things mentioned by you are pointing towards the same thing.

  57. Peter says

    They just delegated the hard part to this mysterious elemental force and off ‘God’ so now ‘God’ is some low-life manager and there is this mystical Prakriti that is/always was/always will be and is the true cause of things. Where did Prakriti come from?

    • harish says

      Cause don’t have further causes..Effects may have further effects.Absence of effect doesn’t prove there is no cause but if there is absence of cause,there will be no effect .So If u ask cause of cause , then when u will stop then ? If not then u are proving cause non-existence ie as if it don’t exist..So nature of cause is always unborn..Just like from clay , pot(effect from an effect clay) is created by an ALIVE being human , in the same way from prakriti ,universe is created by ALIVE entity God which is efficient cause .Science is a process of finding ,knowing and applying cause and its effects. So God is a scientific entity so is soul which is effective cause. Primary material cause is known as prakriti.Effects are of 2 types.One in the form of material known as material effect from primary material cause prakriti and other in form of motion known as efficient or effective effect respectively from efficient cause God and effective cause soul.

      • Peter says

        It’s just not logical and never will be, however you twist the definitions of the words ’cause’ and ‘effect’. Logic is based on the relation between cause and effect and they cannot, in any way, shape or form, be disconnected from each other and still make sense. It all basically boils down to: accept the un-caused, the un-born, or not.

        Please note that I do not feel that logic is the master of the universe, so I’m OK with that, but still. We’re just having fun here, right? Giving the old gray matter lump some puzzles to crack.

        • david says

          hi peter I think swami sukhabodhananda said it best with:

          “if you teach a stupid person logic, then logic itself becomes stupid”. (no offense)

        • harish says

          nothing have been told above which disconnects effect from a cause.Just as pot is proof of potter and clay(both) in the same way universe..Neither without clay nor without potter,there can exist a pot….For us true = cause,illusion=effect and false = never exist….probably u didnt think on these….So i ask u to point out ,what is the relation and difference between cause and effect ?……….Also define what is false?

        • harish says

          Do u know what law of conservation of mass says?.. Its already proved matter is unborn but if anyone understands correctly the theory of cause and effect ,then God,matter and soul are easily proved…

          • InSearchOfTruth says

            Very well said with regards to the law of conservation of mass. Science has proved this, but should we believe whatever science has proved, or we should ask this, has science been able to prove everything? Now, there are so many things that science hasn’t been able to prove things like what is soul? What happens to the soul when a person dies? Existence of God (the biggest question unanswered) n so many of them. So it doesn’t mean that whatever science hasn’t been able to prove it is not to be believed or it does not exist.

            Now if science has proved something, like for example in this case the law of conservation of mass, which says that matter is unborn or cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. But this is for human beings like us who have limited capabilities and limited knowledge. It is not true for God because HE is All knowing, all powerful and has unlimited knowledge and power. It is HE who has created us and all and it is HE who is the sustainer and it is HE who will destroy everything at the end.

  58. sandesh says

    Nice post. Could you please tell me which Veda book is good. I would like to have an English version. Also complete collection of Vedas. Thank You

  59. Shreenath says

    Friends—–
    We speak & write from human wisdom which can never give us the accurate entity of God.. We speak and say what we learn & heard from others..God is the super most intelligent entity which a human mind can never ever study..

  60. Shreenath says

    Although Bible is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout…!!

  61. Shreenath says

    Jesus Christ is unique:

    Jesus is unique not only in the Bible. Among all the prophets ever sent to this earth, only Jesus Christ has been given the following titles in the Quran:

    ‘Kalimatullah’ – ‘The Word of God’ (Surah 4:171; cf. Revelation 19:13 & John 1); it is identical with God.
    ‘Ruhullah’ – ‘A Spirit from God’ (Surah 4:171).
    ‘Al Masih’ – ‘The Messiah’ (Surah 4:171; cf. Matthew 16:16); he was promised as the Saviour of mankind. …!!

    • Jay Arya says

      if you want to speak about islam you can go to muslim website and speak to them about jesus after all besides muslims and Christians none of others believe in jesus

  62. Shreenath says

    Regarding the rebirth cycle the Poet Shiva Vakkiar says; Once milked, the same milk cannot enter into the breast. Once the butter is taken out of the milk, the same butter cannot mix with the same milk. Neither the flower that falls, can become a flower again. Then how can a man or woman be born in this world several times?

    Regarding Gnana marga, the Vedas and Upanishads say, that we have to know the Purusha (for He is the knowledge) who has sacrificed His life for mankind…..& that Purusha is JESUS CHRIST..!!

    • Krishnarao says

      Shreenath,

      Clearly you do not understand the law of Kharma and reincarnation. If you did, you would know. a man or woman that lived a life a sin or many many lives of sins can burn off all those sins by following the true path of Yoga (which is meditating on the One true God, turning to service with love of his follow humans, and being a moral person). Krishna says this and even Buddha stated it. And Buddha for part of his life did live in sin, and it was through meditation and service he reached Moksha.

      Krishnarao

    • Krishnarao says

      “Regarding Gnana marga, the Vedas and Upanishads say, that we have to know the Purusha (for He is the knowledge) who has sacrificed His life for mankind…..& that Purusha is JESUS CHRIST..!!”

      – LOL,

      1. Which verse and Veda?
      2. Who translated it?
      3. Where can I get a copy of the entire Veda translated by that person or group?
      4. Who published it?
      5. What Hindu group supports that translation?

      If you don’t have this information, you are just finding random statements by charlatans. If you want to read the real full copies of the Vedas, go to Agnikart and buy a copy (currently in Hindi).

    • Jay Arya says

      shreenath people from the Abrahamic beliefs,baha faith,zorstrianism don’t have anthing to do with eastern beliefs people like jesus.muhammad,zaurhstra,joseph smith have nothing to do with eastern beliefs but we may respect some of them espically jesus where many hindus have spoken good about him

  63. Krishnarao says

    To Everyone,

    Who keeps quoting the Vedas, please provide your sources:

    1. Which verse and Veda?
    2. Who translated it?
    3. Where can I get a copy of the entire Veda translated by that person or group?
    4. Who published it?
    5. What Hindu group supports that translation?

    Stop just finding some random verses and here and there and give us the full source where you get it from. If you truly have proof, you can proves the five points mentioned above.

  64. shaik says

    @ Sanjeev
    I have gone through ur article expecting to find out your view about creation, instead of that it is about criticizing Islamic belief which u urself not understood. Anyways as you mentioned ‘———GOD never created us…………….
    than you could have said about reason for human existence. at least you could have focused on motive of god becoming manager , what might have made a manager. Why he manages us at all. In case if assumed for time being he just manage

    • RamNarayan says

      Brother Shaik, Namaste!
      Reason for our existence – our sanskars from previous birth. Our souls didn’t attain moksha in our previous birth.
      GOD as manager – HE is the creator of this universe, manager and destroyer. He created universe out of prakriti with his energy and ability. Again, HE didn’t create the aatma, prakriti. They exist eternally along with him.
      His ability to manage this universe through law of karma made him manager.
      He manages us through a system of merit where no-one can escape and enjoy the fruits of karma.
      Dhanyawad

  65. Anyone says

    Did god create this universe or was it already there. Also is the prakriti like an atom or soemthing that building block that makes all this universe.

    • RamNarayan says

      Dear Anyone, Namaste!
      God creates the universe with his energy using the prakriti from its primordial state for the sake of human beings and other living beings. God is called the efficient cause, Matter in its primordial state is called material cause and human beings are the first cause for the creation.

      Dhanyawad!

  66. Anyone says

    also where were souls before when no organisms were alive do they replicate themselves when more and more organisms come about. When the earth gets destroyed as we know in the future what happens to reincarnation.

    • RamNarayan says

      Dear Anyone, Namasate!
      Souls, Matter and God are eternal. They exist at all the times at before srishti and after srishti. There is no start nor end to these three. Souls are countless or infinite. During the pralay, everything goes back to the primordial state. There will not be any of these nature and any living beings. When a living being attains moksha or mukti, that soul is mukt from re-birth until this srishti and it becomes normal as other souls when the new srishti begins.

      Dhanyawad

  67. InSearchOfTruth says

    This is mind blowing, it really blew off my mind. I mean, you say that God did not create us and the existence of God, Soul and Prakriti always existed and will exist eternally. Phew!! You also say that God exists only to manage this soul movement from one form to another and manage the prakriti, is that all the reason God exists?????? As a manager of things?????? Then again you say that he creates, maintains and destroys the souls and prakriti and again create, maintain and destroy and this process has been happening and will continue to happen at all time, as if eternal (in the sense there was no beginning and there will be no end for this process) just can’t believe what I just wrote, so so so so so confusing….. I mean, you mean to say that this process will continue to continue until the eternal time and has been happening from the eternal time, is that correct?????? Oh My GOD!!!!!!!!!! are you confused or are you trying to confuse us?????

    I do understand if you say that God does not have a beginning and end, and HE is Eternal….. but how can it be that the souls (humans) also do not have a beginning or end. There is some starting point and an end point for humans. It is either that YOU HAVE FAILED to understand this concept or I would finally have to say that the VEDAS HAVE FAILED to explain this concept in the correct way……

  68. RA says

    Great explanation on the most complicated question. Thank you.
    I did talk to many well-known Gurus and read many books to get to this conclusion and I am very happy to see the same over here too :) …. Still I have a somel questions some where in the corner of my mind,
    Q1: Looking at the violence that the jeeva’s feel, I some times think that I would be happy just being soul instead of taking birth on earth for Karma !!! How can we justify this pain in the universe. We cannot just say its because of the bad karma that the jeeva has done. Because if i would never given a birth I would have never done bad karmas.
    Q2. Why did souls become jeeva (i mean came to earth taking birth) in first place when they were pure. Why this cycle started.
    Q3. Even though its from origin, I didnt get the reason for soul existence that too in this huge number !!!!
    Q4. And could you please explain what is ultimate bliss? Why a pure soul gets into this cycle of rebirth after bliss?
    Q5. Why GOD letting the jeevas to do bad karma in first place? He could have designed the complete universe system such a way that it could not allow jeevas to do bad karmas itself.

  69. says

    @Vajra –
    So now you have come to “how” from “why”.
    The “why” was/is for our existence. The “how” is for the cause that you answered that always existed. I still haven’t got the answer.
    I really don’t believe in anything. And if I have to care if it is right or wrong, then I would be lying to myself. Moreover it implies that I’m scared of questioning because someone/something says that it is wrong and judges me for it.
    When I ask myself I do not have an answer, I really DO NOT believe in anything. Not unless I find answers.
    No, I am not in favor of existence. I am just not very much in favor of suicide.

  70. Madhukar says

    Dear Shriraam, dnt get confused over the segregation of works. Good knowledge from all sources are equally good. As of talking abt Shreemad Bhagwad Geeta, its spoken from the Supreme God’s own mouth! Its a brilliantly shining sun whose radiance cant be engulfed by keeping it in any category. Its a manual given directly by God to the human frm his own voice. Its a nectar, in frnt of which amrit is also of very low value. Its significance does not get effected weather u place it in Puran or other group, its the absolute truth spoken by Supreme personality of God head to human in the form of guidance. You should read it once and then think about it. It will guide you towards spirituality while living and fulfilling your duties in this material world! It contains the summary of all ved and more than that.
    Jai Shree Krishn.

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