Manu Smriti and Shudras

This post is also available in Hindi at http://agniveer.com/manu-smriti-and-shudras-hi/

This post is also available in Gujarati at http://agniveer.com/manu-smriti-and-shudras-gu/

If Agniveer were to list the top two nuisances in India, it would undoubtedly be birth-based caste system and gender discrimination.

Yes, India is plagued by a plethora of challenges today – corruption, fundamentalism, terrorism, conversions, moral degradation, lack of education, health issues, sanitation problems and so many more. But despite all these problems and threats, the top two – by a wide margin – would remain casteism and gender discrimination.

This is because all the rest of the problems can be attributed in one way or the other to these two core disgraces of our otherwise glorious culture. And till these two problems – that remain the primary causes of almost all our miseries of past and present – are eradicated from root, the hope of a glorious future would remain nothing more than hallucinations of an insane.

In other words, a prosperous and powerful society cannot co-exist with casteism and gender-discrimination.

Please note that casteism and gender-discrimination are not specifically Hindu issues. On contrary, they are more of cultural issues. Gender discrimination has been a global phenomenon for ages. And casteism seems like a South Asian nuisance affecting all societies and religions that breed here.

However Hinduism being the oldest culture and fountainhead of all other religions has to accept the blame of polluting the source. Because these two nuisances were tolerated, the society was weakened and deluged with so many different cults and religions leading to further weaknesses. All leading to the present mess and all the messes of past that we know from history.

It is surprising to find even today, many a defenders of these two nuisances from otherwise intellectual and educated backgrounds. The virus of birth-based superiority is so strong that it renders even the most rational insane. Many of these virus-affected patients are considered among scholars and leaders of contemporary Hinduism!

They would innocently point to ancient scriptures that justify these nuisances and then attempt to prove the ‘science’ behind consuming this trash. The most popular scripture that is used as scapegoat is the Manu Smriti – the oldest text on social systems.

Some also attempt to allege casteism in Vedas as well. However we have already debunked these fake claims and established the Vedic view in the series on Vedas and Caste System. Refer http://agniveer.com/series/caste-system-3/

In this series of articles, we shall evaluate the Manu Smriti.

Now, Manu Smriti is among the most controversial texts of Vedic culture. It is not only known as the first codified text on ethics and laws in the world, but also as a text promoting blatant casteism. The entire Dalit movement of modern times is based on foundations of protesting against ‘Manuvaad’.

While Manu is hero for casteists, Dalit leaders typecast Manu as a great villain. Copies of Manu Smriti are burnt en masse to showcase love for backward sections of society by likes of Agnivesh, Mayawati and many more. Films have been made depicting Manu as a horned devil in guise of scholar forcing brutal atrocity on lower caste people to fulfill his perverted fetishes. Manu Smriti has become the favorite pasture for scavengers keen on bashing Hinduism and Vedas. This becomes among the most potent tools for promoting conversion away from Hinduism. And interestingly most of these Manu bashers perhaps never ever gave Manu Smriti a serious reading!

On other side, for sadist forces within Hinduism who want to fool themselves and others on basis of their so-called birth superiority, Manu Smriti is a religious text that gives them the divine authority to deny fair treatment to one section of population merely because they were not born special. They would quote from fake adulterated verses of Manu Smriti that smell of casteism and gender discrimination, conveniently ignoring plethora of shlokas that speak exactly the opposite.

The tussle between these two forces has not only shaped the current cheap politics of Bharat but has been a major factor leading to foreign invasions of last 1000 years. This wretched caste-system was the prime reason why we could not defend our nation against barbaric invaders. This illogical caste-system was the prime reason why India had to be partitioned in 1947. And this disgusting caste-system is the prime reason why despite so much of talent and intellectual treasure, India is still a sluggish meek spineless snail in the race towards prosperity and power.

Thus it becomes utmost necessary to review Manu Smriti and check what it actually stands for.

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Three allegations on Manu Smriti

There are 3 major allegations on Manu Smriti:

1. Manu founded the caste-system based on birth.

2. Manu legalized harsh punishments for Shudras and special provisions for upper-castes and especially Brahmins.

3. Manu was anti-women and condemned them. He accorded inferior rights to women.

Let us now review these allegations using evidences from Manu Smriti itself.

In this article, we shall review the first allegation – that Manu was founder of birth-based caste system.

We would strongly recommend that the readers review our series on Caste System in Vedas to understand the context and definitions of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra as per Vedas. Please review the series at http://agniveer.com/series/caste-system-3/


1. Manu Smriti hails from an era when even the concept of birth-based caste system did not exist. Thus Manu Smriti nowhere supports a social system based on birth. Maharshi Manu took inspiration from Vedas (refer Rigveda 10.10.11-12, Yajurveda 31.10-11, Atharvaveda 19.6.5-6) and proposed a social system based on qualities, actions and nature of the individual.
Manu Smriti and Caste System

 

2. This is called Varna System. Now the very word Varna derived from root word “Vrinja” means “Choice“. A similar usage happens in common used word “Varan” meaning “choosing” or “Var” meaning a husband chosen by the girl. This also shows that in Vedic system the girl had complete rights to choose her husband.

 

3. The biggest proof of Manu Smriti proposing Varna System and NOT Caste System is that in the first Chapter of Manu Smriti, there is mention of origin of 4 Varnas and no mention of castes or gotras. Had caste or gotra been important, Manu would have mentioned which castes belong to Brahmins, which to Kshatriyas, which to Vaishyas and which to Shudras.

This also means that those who feel proud in calling themselves Brahmins or upper-caste by birth have no evidence to prove so. They can at best prove that a few generations of their forefathers used to also call themselves upper-caste. But there is no way to prove that they were upper-castes since inception of civilization. And when they cannot prove so, what right do they have to allege that a so-called birth-based Shudra was also not a Brahmin several generations ago? And that they themselves were not Shudras a few generation ago!

 

4. In fact Manu Smriti 3.109 clearly states that one who eats by glorifying his Gotra or Family is considered an eater of his own vomit. Thus, as per the Manu Smriti that the self-proclaimed birth-based Brahmins or upper-castes believe in, the very act of glorifying their lineage or gotra to demand special privileges makes them deserving of condemnation.

 

5. Manu Smriti 2.136 states that one earns respect due to wealth, company, age, actions and knowledge in increasing order. There is no mention of family, gotra, caste, lineage and other non-factors to demand or earn respect.

 

Migration within Varnas

6. Manu Smriti 10.65 asserts that Brahmin can become Shudra and Shudra can become Brahmin. Similarly Kshtariyas and Vaishyas can also change their Varnas.

 

7. Manu Smriti 9.335: If a Shudra (uneducated) serves the educated ones, is polite, devoid of ego and stays in respectful company of knowledgeable ones, he/ she is considered as having a noble birth and stature.

 

8. There are several shlokas in Manusmriti that state that a person belonging to high Varna falls down to level of a Shudra (uneducated) if he does not conduct noble deeds. For example,

2.104: A person who does not worship the Supreme Lord twice daily should be considered a Shudra.

2.172. He who has not been initiated with teaching of the Vedas is a Sudra.

4.245: A Brahmin acquires brilliance through company of noble persons and avoiding bad company. On contrary, if he indulges in bad company, he becomes a Shudra.

Thus clearly, Brahmin refers to a scholarly person who conducts noble deeds. And Shudra refers to an uneducated person. This has nothing to do with birth in any manner.

2.168: A Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya who puts efforts in other areas except understanding and following the Vedic precepts becomes a Shudra and his future generations also suffer from ignorance of Vedas.

Thus, as per Manu Smriti, almost the entire population of India today, barring few exceptions, is Shudra because we do not abide by the Vedic concepts and are indulged in anti-Vedic activities – corruption, casteism, selfishness, superstitions, irrationality, gender-discrimination, sycophancy, immorality etc.

2.126: Even if he is a Brahmin otherwise, a person who does not politely respond to a greeting is actually a Shudra (uneducated person).

 

Even Shudras can teach

9. Though Shudra means an uneducated person, a Shudra can also become a teacher for specific knowledge that he has. For example,

2.238: One should acquire knowledge even from a person born in a low family otherwise. Similarly, one should accept a noble woman as wife even if her family is otherwise not up to mark.

2.241. If needed, one may acquire knowledge from one who is not a Brahmin; and that he shall follow and serve such a teacher, as long as the instruction lasts.

 

Status of Brahmin is acquired by deeds and not by name

10. As per Manu Smriti, one has to earn the qualification of Brahmin. During childhood, parents are supposed to send their children for specialized education of Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya depending on observed nature of children. So many Brahmin parents may desire that their children also become Brahmins. However that is not sufficient. One becomes Brahmin only if he completes the education and not merely by taking birth in a Brahmin family or taking admission in Brahmin course of a gurukul.

2.157: A Brahmin devoid of education is equivalent to an elephant made of wood or a deer made of leather. They are merely namesake and not real.

2.28: The body is made fit to be called Brahmin only through study of scriptures, discipline, noble selfless deeds, study of duties, science and meditation, charity and goal oriented actions.

 

Education is true birth

11. As per Manu, actual birth happens after completion of education. All human beings are Shudras or uneducated when born. Those who complete their education are supposed to have a new birth. Thus they are called Dwija or Twice Born. Those who were unable to complete the education remain Shudra. This has nothing to do with birth or heredity. This is pure meritocracy.

2.148: When a teacher who is well-versed in Vedas teaches a student the science of Gayatri (that summarizes all principles of Vedas and rational living), then the actual birth of the student takes place. This birth is free from risks of death or destruction and leads the student to immortality.

Thus, forget about being a Brahmin, Kshatriya or Vaishya, one is not considered even a human unless he/she receives education.

2.146: The teacher who provides education is a father who is much greater than the father who gave birth. The knowledge provided by the teacher remains with the soul even after the death and leads him to immortality. But the body provided by father destroys when death comes.

2.147: The birth that happens from womb of mother after parents desire for procreation is an ordinary birth. Real birth happens when the person completes his education.

Thus, citing lineage to showcase casteist superiority is an extremely foolish act as per Manu Smriti. Instead of quoting the clan, one becomes superior by showcasing that he is more educated.

10.4: Brahmin, Kashtriya and Vaishya take second birth after education. Shudra who could not complete education is fourth Varna. There is no fifth Varna among Arya or noble people.

This also means that merely because a person did not complete education does not make him a villain. He is still regarded as a noble person if his deeds are noble.

And if he completes the education, he can become a Dwija as well. Thus Shudra is an adjective and NOT a nomenclature for any castes.

Never insult anyone born in lower family
12. To further ensure that one is not insulted or denied opportunities merely because he/she was born in a family where others did not excel in education, wealth or other parameters of success in society, Maharshi Manu laid the rule very clearly:
4.141: Never deny respect and/or rights to a person who is handicapped, uneducated, aged, not handsome, not wealthy or coming from a lower family. These are NOT the parameters to judge a person.

Manu-Smriti-and-Shudras

Examples of Varna migration in ancient history

13. The concept of Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra – being merit based and NOT birth based is not merely a theoretical concept. It was practiced in ancient era. The greatest misery befell on us when our misguided ancestors converted this scientific meritocracy into a foolish birth-based system causing all the miseries we face today.

Here are some examples:

a. Aitareya Rishi was son of a Daasa or criminal but became a Brahmin of highest order and wrote Aitareya Brahman and Aitareyopanishad. Aitareya Brahman is considered critical to understand Rigveda.

b. Ailush Rishi was son of a Daasi, gambler and of low character. However he researched on Rigveda and made several discoveries. Not only was he invited by Rishis but also made an Acharya. (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)

c. Satyakaam Jaabaal was son of a prostitute but became a Brahmin.

d. Prishadh was son of King Daksha but became a Shudra. Further he did Tapasya to achieve salvation after repenting. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.14)

Had Tapasya been banned for Shudra as per the fake story from Uttar Ramayan, how could Prishadh do so?

e. Nabhag, son of King Nedishtha became Vaishya. Many of his sons again became Kshatriya. (Vishnu Puran 4.1.13)

f. Dhrist was son of Nabhag (Vaishya) but became Brahmin and his son became Kshatriya (VP 4.2.2)

g. Further in his generation, some became Brahmin again (VP 9.2.23)

h. As per Bhagvat, Agniveshya became Brahmin though born to a king.

i. Rathotar born in Kshatriya family became a Brahmin as per Vishnu Puran and Bhagvat.

j. Haarit became Brahmin though born to Kshatriya (VP 4.3.5)

k. Shaunak became Brahmin though born in Kshatriya family. (VP 4.8.1). In fact, as per Vayu Puran, Vishnu Puran and Harivansh Puran, sons of Shaunak Rishi belonged to all four Varnas.

Similar examples exist of Gritsamad, Veethavya and Vritsamati.

l. Matanga was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin. (Mahabharat Anushasan Parva Chapter 3)

m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.

n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.

o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal.

p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.

q. Vidur was son of a servant but became a Brahmin and minister of Hastinapur empire.

r. Vatsa became a Rishi though born to a Shudra (Aitareya Brahman 2.19)

s. Many verses of adulterated Manu Smriti (10.43-44) state that certain castes were earlier Kshtariya but became Shudra later. These verses are adulterated but prove that concept of Varna migration did exist. The castes mentioned are: Paundrak, Audru, Dravid, Kamboj, Yavan, Shak, Parad, Palhava, Cheen, Kirat, Darad, Khash.

t. Mahabharat Anushasana Parva 35.17-18 adds the following to above list: Mekal, Laat, Kanvashira, Shaundik, Daarva, Chaur, Shabar, Barbar.

u. Several gotras are common across Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Dalits implying that all of them hailed from same family but rather got entrapped in the stupid casteism.

 

Respect for Shudras

14. Manu was a great humanitarian. He knew that not all Shudras miss their education deliberately. He also understood that just because one ignored education in early part of his life does not mean that he should be penalized for that mistake for entire life. Thus he ensured that even Shudras get their due respect in society. Thus he never used any insulting adjective for Shudras. On contrary their are several instances of Manu using respectful adjectives for Shudras.

Being vulnerable due to lack of education, Shudras deserve greater sensitivity in treatment from rest of the society as per Manu. We have seen some examples of these earlier.

Here are some more:

3.112: If a Shudra or Vaishya comes as a guest, the family should feed him with due respect.

3.116: A householder should eat from remaining food only after he has fed the scholars and servants (Shudras) to their satisfaction.

2.137: A very old Shudra deserves more respect than anyone else regardless of their wealth, company, age, actions or knowledge. This special provision is accorded only to Shudra.

 

Vedas are foundation of Manu Smriti

15. No text apart from Vedas is free from potential for interpolations. To understand why Vedas are immune to tampering, please review http://agniveer.com/2697/why-vedas-cannot-be-changed/

That is why Vedas are accorded such high importance in our culture. Vedas form the foundation of everything else and hence if Vedas are conserved, other texts can be derived by seers in future as well.

16. Thus the benchmark for interpreting any other scriptural text is the Vedas. They are to be interpreted and accepted only to extent they comply with Vedas. This is true for ALL texts including Smritis, Brahmans, Mahabharat, Ramayan, Geeta, Upanishads, Ayurveda, Neeti Shastra, Darshans etc.

17. Manu himself announces in the Manu Smriti that Vedas alone form the foundation of Dharma. Refer 2.8-2.11

(Manu 2.8: A learned man after fully scrutinising all this with the eye of knowledge, should, in accordance with the authority of the Vedas, intent on the performance of his duties.)

Thus, it becomes clear that Manu Smriti has to be interpreted ONLY in lines with Vedas.

 

Shudras have right to study Vedas and conduct Vedic rituals

18. Vedas very clearly provide right to Shudras (and women) – in fact entire humanity – to study Vedas and conduct Vedic rituals like Yajna. Refer Yajurveda 26.1, Rigveda 10.53.4, Nirukta 3.8 etc. Also refer our series on Vedic Caste System at http://agniveer.com/series/caste-system-3/

Thus Manu Smriti also supports the same Vedic truth. That is why nowhere in the context of Upanayan (education initiation) does Manu forbid Upanayan or sacred thread for Shudras. On contrary, one who refuses to accept Sacred Thread of education is called a Shudra!

19. In lines with Vedas, Manu also orders the ruler to ensure that the salary and perks of Shudras be never reduced in any circumstance. (7.125-126, 8.216)

 

Summary:

To summarize, the assumption of Manu formulating a birth-based caste system is baseless. On contrary, Manu Smriti is vehemently against any reference to family or birth to judge a person. The Varna system of Manu is a pure meritocracy.

Each human has all the 4 Varnas – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. Manu attempted to organize the predominant Varna of each individual in social context in a manner that aids individual and collective uplift.

We shall review the other two allegations on Manu prescribing harsh punishments for Shudras and preferential treatment for Brahmins; and being anti-woman in subsequent articles.

But we would like to conclude this part from what Manu himself said about fraud and wrong practices.

He says in 4.30 that frauds, wrong practices, deceit, perversion and falsehood should not be respected even by words.

Caste system based on birth is one of the most disgusting fraudulent deceitful perverted and false practices to exist among civilized human beings. And thus, as per Manu and as per Vedas, one should work to destroy this criminal practice by all means – harshest words and strongest actions. To show soft corner to birth-based caste system even in words is against Manu.

 

Wait Wait Wait Agniveer!

Before you end, I demand you to explain those perverted verses of Manu Smriti that are quoted everywhere to justify birth-based casteism and gender discrimination. I can provide hundreds of such shlokas from Manu Smriti.

Agniveer:

That is the point my friend. How can the same Manu Smriti have both verses defending as well as rejecting birth-based casteism? This means that Manu Smriti demands a closer scrutiny. We shall also do the same in a future article. But in summary:

a. The current Manu Smriti is full of interpolated/ adulterated verses that were added much later for various reasons. Almost 50% of Manu Smriti is actually fake.

b. Interpolation is not a problem with Manu Smriti. Apart from Vedas – that are preserved through a unique Patha and Swara method – all other texts of almost all belief systems are prone to modifications, interpolations and deletions. These include Ramayana, Mahabharat, Bible, Quran. Not to talk of texts like Bhavishya Puran that continued to be modified till printing press arrived!

c. Three editions of Ramayan are available today – Dakshinatya, Pashchamottariya and Gaudiya which are different. Even Geetapress Gorakhpur has indicated many chapters as adulterated (Prakshipta). Most scholars agree that Balkanda and Uttarkanda are grossly adulterated.

Similarly Mahabharat is known to be a grossly interpolated text. Garud Puran Brahmakanda 1.59 states that in Kaliyuga many frauds are posing as Brahmins to remove certain shlokas and add new ones in Mahabharat.

Mahabharat Shantiparva 265.9, 4 itself states that Vedic texts clearly prohibit alcohol, fish and meat. All these have been propagated by frauds who have added such verses in scriptures through deceit.

Original version of Bible does not exist today! We only have translations of translations of some translations of the original Bible which no one has ever seen.

Quran also is claimed to be a modified version of original teachings of Muhammad. Refer http://satyagni.com/3118/miracle-islam/

Thus no wonder Manu Smriti – the oldest text on social systems – is also prone to modifications. More so because Manu Smriti historically had the greatest influence in day to day life of each citizen as well as politics of the nation. After all it was like the constitution for centuries. Thus the incentives for a crooked one to interpolate Manu Smriti were very high.

d. When we review Manu Smriti, we find 4 kinds of interpolations: to bring completeness, for selfish reasons, to exaggerate and to bring defects. Most of these interpolations are blatantly obvious. Dr Surendra Kumar has written a detailed translation of Manu Smriti in Hindi that analyzes each shloka on various parameters to weed out those verses that are obviously interpolated.

He has deduced that of the 2685 shlokas of Manu Smriti, at least 1471 shlokas are adulterated. He has classified the adulterations as :

– out of subject

– out of context

– contradictory

– repetition

– difference in usage and style

– blatant contradiction with Vedas

We recommend all keen students of Vedic texts to procure a copy of Manu Smriti by Dr Surendra Kumar (published by Aarsh Sahitya Prachar Trust, Delhi) from www.vedicbooks.com which would make this point as transparent as air.

e. Dr Surendra Kumar is not the only person to point out adulterations in Manu Smriti. Even many a western indologists like Macdonnell, Keith, Buhler etc have expressed the same.

f. Even BR Ambedkar accepted that ancient scriptures have been adulterated. He has alleged adulterations in Ramayan, Mahabharat, Geeta, Purans and even in Vedas. He cited contradictory verses from Manu Smriti. But he tactfully desisted from calling these verses of Manu Smriti as adulterated.

This myopic act of Ambedkar did make him a hero of Dalit movement. It did stir up an anti-Manu movement and created political careers for many a politicians including Ambedkar himself. But this selective honesty only worsened the caste-based hatred and made Manu – a true hero – a popular villain.

Even so-called Arya Samaji Sanyasis like Agnivesh burnt copies of Manu Smriti and disgraced the great Rishi only to score political brownies. Though he very well knew that Swami Dayanand himself had asserted that Manu Smriti has been interpolated but the unadulterated verses of Manu Smriti form the foundation of his Vedic ideology.

And now people expect such enlightened people to be instrumental in eradicating corruption from the nation by being masterminds of Anna Hazare movement! We seem to never learn from history! But thats a different story.

 

Conclusion:

Manu Smriti has been subject to significant adulterations. However the adulterated verses are easy to identify and trash. The rest of the Manu Smriti is an excellent text that establishes the foundations of a meritocracy based rational society that values each individual and ensures collective success.

Vedas form the foundation of original Manu Smriti.

The existing movement against Manu Smriti is purely a political game led by those who never reviewed Manu Smriti in first place.

True Manuvaad refers to complete outright rejection of birth-based caste system and heavy punishment for those who justify discrimination on basis of birth. It also refers to refusal of word ‘Dalit’ or ‘crushed one’ for certain people who are completely equal to rest of the humanity in all aspects.

Let us all work to install this Manuvaad in our society by working towards a completely casteless and merit-based society. This is the only way to save humanity and the nation.

Let us follow the true Dharma – that is same for all human beings regardless of caste, birth, gender, geography, religion and other baseless parameters.

Manu Smriti 8.17: Dharma or noble deeds is only one true friend that accompanies one ever after death. All others desert one as soon as death has overtaken.

References: Works of Dr Surendra Kumar, Pt Gangaprasad Updhyaya, and Swami Dayanand Saraswati

 

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Comments

  1. says

    धन्यवाद अग्निवीर जी | इस प्रकार के लेखों की आज के समय में बहुत आवश्यकता है |

  2. says

    Agniveer wats the use of this article .Good job done on this but remove the Satya Sai article…ofcourse u need not give a damn abt wat i said…just saying.
    And I am not a Jihadi in disguise.i am a hindu.

    • Truth Seeker says

      @Dharma Thug Au-Slammwalekum Brother

      You can leave this site. This is Yag for truth. Its depend on you give your Ahuti in it or not? The Yag will be stopped till the truth established. Initially when agniveer started the movement of truth he was alone, in way many truth seeker jointed him and many coward leaving him. But this man will go till the end. You can avoid this site & stop ground level work also for establishing truth and do enjoy with your family.

    • Islam is Great! says

      @Dharma Thug

      Bhai aap bhi iss website se bahut aahat huye hai mujhe bahut afsos se aur mai bhi chahata ki aapki bhawnao aur dusre hindu aur muslman bhiyo ke sath khilwad karne wale (Agniveer) ko ek badi saja mile. Bhai agar tum chahe to jakir bhai ke sath milkar tumhe bhi insaf mil sakata hai. Hum sab aur Jakir bhi soniya ji aur manmohan ji se milkar iss website ko hi hindustan mai band karwa denge. Aap mujhe aapna contact number aur email Id de. Islam mai viswas rakhiye aapko purn insaf milega Allah tala bhi aapka sath dega iss ladai me. Islam kabuliye aur insaf paye.

      • raj.hyd says

        apna naam chipane vale bhai ji , yah bharat hai saUdee arab nahi hai ki yah site band karva denge ! kya kuritiyo v andh vishvaska virodh karna galat hai ? ap andh vishvasi bade shauk se rahiye lekin dusro ko andhkar me kyo dalte hai ? agar islam me koi maulik achhai ho to vaha jarur batlaiye ! fir uska javab bhi paiye 1

      • arya the great says

        agar itne sache ho to shastrath karo wahan dekha jayega k kis mein kitna hai dam sari duniya to tumein atank wadhi kahti hia fir b mud nahin rahe, humara dharam humein nafrat nahin sikhata is liye mein kuch nahin kahoonga, zakir nayak b bhag gaya agar dam tha to karta na bat aur kitne jhooth bolein hain usne kahta hai duniya mein auratein zyada hai kahan hai auratein zyada kahta hia plants ko taklif hoti hai kahan hai prove do, jhooth bol bol k aage badh rahe ho apna time waste kar rahe ho.

  3. Deepak says

    PAKISTANI HIGHER CASTE MUSLIMS WHO RAPED LOWER CASTE MUSLIM MUKHTAR MAI ARE FREED BY PAKISTANI SHARIA COURT AND B.R. AMBEDKAR HAS HIMSELF SAID THAT MUSLIM CASTE SYSTEM IS MORE WORSE THAN HINDU CASTE SYSTEM. SO MUSLIMS HAVE NO RIGHT TO ACCUSE HINDUS OF CASTE SYSTEM.

    • kumar99 says

      Whether somebody else discriminates or not (like the way we do)….. it is the responsibility of every believer to reform his religion. I am a Hindu. I ask u ‘are you never touched by the plight of the Dalits’? Or will u look for justification or draw strength from the Nazis or other marauders and murders in history?

  4. says

    I’m really confused Agniveer. When I read many of your articles I thought that the Smrits have ALL been adulturated and are not worth following. The same story about Ramayan, Mahabharat etc. So tell, me which author has the best and orignal translation of the Manu Smriti? Can you explain Hanuman and him lifiting mountains from Ramayan? Where did this adulturation come from? What is the actual story behind all this? Where can I read the original Mahabharat and Ramayan without all the mythological aspects?

    Please clarify all this.

    • says

      Namaste

      All other Smritis are later-dated and subject to gross adulterations. However Manu Smriti being the oldest and first Smriti of the world pre-dating even Ramayan and Mahabharat, is vital to understand Vedic concepts in practical social applications. Also since Manu Smriti is considered source of casteism, it is necessary to evaluate true views of Manu.

      The best text on Manu Smriti is the research by Dr Surendra Kumar published by Aarsh Sahitya Prachar Trust Delhi. Dr Surendra Kumar is perhaps the greatest scholar of Manu Smriti in several decades.

      Dr Surendra Kumar is also working on Ramayan and Mahabharat to come out with unadulterated versions. However the project is delayed due to lack of funding. In the interim you can review Ramayan and Mahabharat published by Govindram Hasanand and written by Swami Jagdeeshwarandand. Though not very thorough, it is yet the most reasonable version of these texts available today. All these texts are available in Hindi translations along with Sanskrit shlokas.

      Admin

      • says

        Thanks for clearing this out. Though one thing still remains answered for me:

        Where did this CASTE SYSTEM then come from? You have cleared the Manu Smriti and obviously the Vedic point of view. But when did this caste system become an epidemic in India? Was with the Mughals and their Zamindari system, Portugese as the word caste is from the Portugese word ‘casto’ or our ‘favourites’ the Brits? Or must we as Dharmic people take blame for this one?

        • says

          Namaste

          We as Dharmic people must take the blame for this one. Its a different matter that the situation worsened over time and then other factors like foreign invasions, British conspiracies, Dravid-Dalit politics – all had significant roles to play. But the blame of initiating the process has to be taken by us.

          Even in general, if we are in mess today, in any field, any area, any aspect, we must take the blame for that. After all law of karma ensures that the world around us is a representation of our inner realities. This works on individual, society, family, nation or any microcosm.

          So yes, Agniveer takes the blame for this nuisance on itself and attempts to do the Prayashchit through future efforts.

          We have information on approximately how and when it started but that is futile to discuss and would only sidetrack the discussion to passing the buck and blame game. What is important is to realize that this stupid caste-system does not form our foundation, and is the AIDS eating us away. So regardless of how and why we contracted AIDS, we should get rid of this disease and stick to core Vedic teachings to ensure that we never contract such a dreaded disease again.

          Dhanyavad
          Admin

          • vandita m arora says

            good approach , keep up the good work , young scholars like you should go on with this kind of intellectual churning and enlighten others. yastarkenaanu sandhatte sa dharmam veda netarah….. apne dosho ko manakar unaka nirakarana karte rahna hi ek arya (shrestha) ka dharmahai smrition ka dikdesh kal ke anusar hi manan kiya jana chahiye

          • kumar99 says

            Isn’t it true that the learning of the source of the scourge (whether it is AIDS or Caste-system) is necessary to even attempt eradicating it? Or is it Ok to re-invent(re-write) the original texts to obfuscate the truth? Change comes from accepting and understanding the truth and further correcting the mistakes made in the past and not by inserting ‘historical-fiction’. Unless we truly accept and learn…….. history will repeat itself, but with a twist i.e. the erstwhile superiors and tormentors may become the subjugated and the tormented?

        • dharmesh says

          Jo log Manu ki baat ko galat kehte hai unhe mai yaha kehna chahath hu ki, duniya ke sab se purane sanskriti,jisme samaj ke sabhi shastro ko kai salo tak ka abbhays kar ke,jo manav hit me ho ,usee sweekar kiya hai,aur phir use Manu ne likha hai.yahi jine ka tarika hai.iisiliye duinya mein 48 badi badi sanskruti(greek,roman etc)jinone is samaj vyavastha par dhayn nahi diya wo sab koi 300-500 salo mein nastha ho gai hai.duniya ke is itihas ko padho aur samzho.Hamari sanskruti me bahut mahan vichar hai,sirf samaz mein aane chahiye.

          • Jaipal says

            sanskriti purane hone se us sanskriti ko yeh hak to nahi milta ki samaj me discrimination karay!

          • SDC says

            Jai-chand, jab sanskriti ne samaj me discrimination karai hi nahi toh phir sawaal kyun uthta hain. Logon ne apne swarth ko siddh karne ke liye sanatan sanskriti ko dushit kiya.

          • shravak says

            @jaipal

            bilkul, aisi sanskriti jo samaj main fut daale uska namo nishan tak mita dena chahiye, jaise ki ‘Islami’ sanskriti jo ek bhai ko dusre bhai se ladvaati hai.

            Hindu sanskriti ne hamesha manavo ko ek kiya, ‘Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam’ se kuch yaad aaya?

          • Rohan says

            Sanskrit did not discrimate anyone. It is the dogmatic tribes of he desert dwellers who discriminated against each other and brought it into the Dharmic societies. As such, please check yourself before correcting anyone else.

        • ratnakar kamble says

          sir, namaste.
          i am ratnakar kamble from parbhani,maharashtra. i agree with your openion. Dr. Babasaheb ambedkar prove it, what is origin of caste. now Brahman has been hide mmistekes.

      • says

        Agniveer, one small correction. Vedas have mantras and others have slokas. Hence, what we get in Ramayan, Mahabharath or even in Manusmirthi is only slokas and not Mantras pl.

      • abcd says

        Admin ji, kripa karke ye batayenge ki jo baccha janam lete hi bramhan, kchatriy, vaisya ya shudra kaise ho jata hai?.. kyomki aapki manusmriti ke dvitiya adhyaya ke shlok 32-33 kahate hain ki bache ka namkaran aisa ho ki usase usaki usase usaki jati gyan ho jaise, brahman ka mangalwachak, kchatriya ka balwachak, vaisya ka dhanyukt aur Shudra ka dasyukt hona chahiye…… manusmrit kewal aur kewal bramhan ke liye sukhdayi hai….. ise jab tak jalakar khatam nahi karate aur jab tak isko follow karna band nahin karenge hindutva ka bhalai nahin ho sakata hai..

  5. Bangladeshi Hindu says

    If Mullah Agnivesh burns Manusmriti, He should burn Quran,the manual of terrorism.

    • Rohan says

      Very true…the only sad part, all the mullahs are burning themselves with hatred for themselves, their lifestyle and the wombs that give biirth….

    • siddharth says

      He is more of a politician now , he should propagate the complete truth . This website has to be made more and more popular and donations must keep coming . Increase awareness of this website .

  6. Ram says

    Agniveer is the light for future of Bharat.
    Take the meaning of the word “Brahmana” – One who has knowledge about the Brahman. Knowing Brahman is possible through learning Vedas. One who has no knowledge or very little knowledge on Vedas has not learnt to know the Brahman and he cannot claim himself to be the Brahmana. Going by this definition, how many Brahmins by birth will today qualify to become Brahmanas. By birth, everyone is a Shudra and once he attains the stage of dwija (not just by upanayanam or any other ritual), he can get qualified to become a Brahmana. What is the greatness of Brahmana ? he knows the spiritual truth or Sathya and abides by Dharma. Even after attaining the qualification of Brahmana, if the person breaches Dharma, then his qualification becomes useless. Name-sake Brahmins or by-birth brahmins only acclaim them to be somewhat greater than others, but not really.

  7. Truth Seeker says

    Namaste Agniveer Ji,

    Most needed article require Hindi translation also. If you have hindi translation available please put on internet so that it will be easy for me to make the people understand on ground level & join the more people in this mission of Truth.

  8. unity-still a mirage? says

    Well. .This article is amazing. Great job .Its just that it should reach out everyone acoss the nation and “inspire” all to make a change.:)

  9. Harshavardhan says

    Namaaskar ,

    I was waiting for this . Manusrumuti is great !!

    My friend has written an article on Dr. B. R. Ambedkar’s book ” Riddles In Hinduism” answering riddle no 3 . He is trying to publish it some where as his own research , will you allow publish it on your website ? He is also researching on other riddles stated by Dr. Ambedkar and he is also going to write a series of articles on same issue . ( He has taken references from vedas . )

    please reply .

    Dhanyavaad.

  10. Dipankar says

    Top secrets are open:- Musalman,khirchan,yahudi,jaina,buddha,in sab dharma ka ethihas dekha jaye to wo 2000 saal se jyda tak nahi nikalta. Aur bhir en me jalsaji dekho ye kahate hai ki hamara dharma hi sabse pahale tha,lekin ethihas me kuch bhi praman nahi milta. Iska arth hua ki in sab ne purane satya dharma ka aadhar lekar aapna ullu sadha hai. Lekin sone ko kitna bhi chupao sona,sona hi hota hai. Arya dharma (vedant) hi satya hai, jo in sab dharma ke mul me ja kar beitha hai,koi aankh wala hi pahachanta hai.

  11. Dr. Pratibha Mehta Luthra says

    Agniveerji,

    Namaste.

    I appereciate your comments on Manu Smriti. Indeed I read it, and do not find caste system in it. It is a thought created by few and accepted by others in few generations. Now, thoughts have to be created to erase from the society, which has been badly damaged by creating divisions among us. People like you must lead the path. Mharishi Manu conceptualized the society in four division based on Karma ( by choice), so that it can prosper and progress with the specialized skill of the people.
    Thank you.

  12. says

    Agniveer , you have rightly proven,elsewhere , that Purans are not authentic. Then, why are you trieving examples from Vishnu Puran ,in the present write-up , to establish the case of varna migration in ancient history ?

    • says

      To assert that even in Pauranic Period, birth-based caste system was not yet frozen in society. We have quoted Purans from historical perspective.

    • KalBhairav says

      @womenstatus:

      I would prefer to know about women’s status in Islam by listening/reading to *women* rather than some man with years’ worth of unshaven beard ;-)

      Familiarize yourself with viewpoints of Taslima Nasreen, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and other ex-Muslims.

        • KalBhairav says

          @womenstatus:

          Good, at least you posted a video of a woman this time instead of a bearded Mullah who hasnt shaved in a year when discussing women’s rights.

          I can give you a list of videos of converts OUT of Islam…no need I guess you must have seen many of them in youtube yourself. So, where does that leave us…Are these converts to Islam correct or are the converts out of Islam correct?

          • @womenstatus says

            @KalBhairav

            Thanks Brother.

            End of the day what you want in life is more important. As people who moves out
            because they could not understand it or they lose will power to live discipline life.
            We can learn from Sister Nicole, she accepted & looked at life differently. She started doing Day Job, Wearing Veil to respect herself, and started Charity & more. We cannot blame
            entire community bcoz certain group of wrongdoers. We can only educate them, end of the day it is their option to choose path. Everyone wants to live peaceful life, dont we?

          • says

            Namaste womenstatus

            Can you tell me why Muslimahs are not allowed to pray during their menses?

            Also do you believe that a Muslimah is half intelligent than man?

    • says

      Dear sister womenstatus

      Please put the relevant portion containing logic here. Dont have time to read the whole article

      • womenstatus says

        Brother Vajra

        If you have not time to read, so I hope you do not ask questions which
        you yourself could not understand why you ask. They are points to understand for women in
        this site Have patient didnt Vedas teaches you that. Thankyou.

          • Indian Agnostic says

            Namaste @womenstatus

            menstruation is not the same as pissing . You may contact your angan badi behan to help you with the knowledge and free pads too.

            hope this helps remove your ignorance

            Dhanyawad

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @womenstatus

            given the semi-literate statements that you have made, let me give you an easier answer as to why menstruation and pissing are not the same.

            do eat while you piss? NO! ..but you do eat during your periods ..YES OFCOURSE!

            so stop degrading yourself as a half-intelligent piss worthy muslimah and start respecting yourself as an equal human being.

            Dhanyawad

          • Indian Agnostic says

            @womenstatus

            and finally if you are hell bent on saying that menstruation and pissing are the same the how will you translate this hadit?

            http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.296
            Sahih Bukhari
            Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296:
            Narrated ‘Aisha:
            The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur’an while I was in menses.

            if i go by your comparision it would mean that Aisha was pissing while prophet was reciting quran in her lap? have you no shame that you disrespect your own prophet by comparing menses with piss??

  13. says

    Namaste whathappentovajra aka @confirmtohell

    What according to you is the punishment for an apostate preaching his new religion in Islamic country as per Shariyat? Your reply will decide whether I shall respond you further or will ignore you as yet another terrorist among many others roaming here :)

  14. womenstatus says

    @indianagnostic.

    mr interfere thanks for lecture

    questions remains same with other

    1. Do you pray when you piss?

    2. Do you pray when ejaculate for making baby?

    stop polluting illogical & unauthorised translations.

    • Indian Agnostic says

      The hadit is pretty authentic .the answer to your question has been given by your prophet himself.

      when prophet muhammad can recite the quran in aisha’s lap when she was having her menses( pissing or ejaculating as per you , not me) , then a muslimah like you can do the same ..right?

      • says

        Namaste Brother Indian Agnostic

        Still laughing on Angan Badi Behan :) Great reply! Hope it helps our Jihadi sister understand her true status accorded in Islam. Regarding ejaculation, she forgot that hundreds of wives of Prophet Solomon could not conceive because Solomon did not read Bismillah while being in bed with them :(

  15. womenstatus says

    @Vajra & @Indian Agnostic

    Brothers no need to be happy.

    my question was incomplete, it was only pose to you man. I just wanted to know
    how you do answer the incomplete question and make irrelevant combinations. Well
    your wild imaginations are great.

    It answers my intelligence
    & menses you may still refer to my link posted. Thank you

    • says

      Sister womenstatus

      ————I just wanted to know how you do answer the incomplete question and make irrelevant combinations———–

      1. So what you found? If we gave incomplete answer, it was what your incomplete question deserved, if we gave you complete answer, we are great anyways ;)

      2. It were you who combined menses with piss, not us. So the credit for this irrelevant combination goes to you!

      ————–It answers my intelligence————-

      Do you know Muhammad thought of you as half intelligent as compared to man and deficient in religion?

      ———– you may still refer to my link posted.———–

      You can bring any other full intelligent creature to have debate with us on why Allah created you as half intelligent and him with full intelligence

      Thanks

      • womenstatus says

        @Vajra

        question was asked not combined. Your thoughts were where
        when your buddy combine it and answer it. Ask your mummy how see feel it
        when got menses, feeling like to pray or to take rest? :P

        Intelligence are not measured neither estimated their level. The only
        conclusion is man are stronger in physic & in emotions & women are weaker.

        Thankyou

        • says

          Sister womenstatus

          1. I dont know what my Mummy feels but I certainly know I will break the neck of the person that will try to force her not to pray to her God whenever she wants because some book says so. But unfortunately Muslims have to follow their illiterate prophet who though of women inferior to men :(

          No one can force my mom to pray/not pray against her will anytime. Is it same for you dear Muslimah? Can a Muslimah pray if she wants it during her menses?

          2. Sahih Hadith clearly state that women are less intelligent and deficient in religion, here are few examples

          a. The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’ (Bukhari:V3B48N826)

          b. ‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’ (Muslim:B1N142)

  16. womenstatus says

    @Vajra

    you have prove your manhood so you will use violence. :D :D :D :D

    Brother stop posting verses & repeat the same thing copy, paste, copy , paste,. Instead read article which I posted if you have some patience to learn something.

    And yeah I am still waiting for your answer what Vedas say @ man.?

    1. Do you pray when you piss?

    2. Do you pray when ejaculate for making baby?

    I hope you answer stop counter questions & pasting things.

    Thankyou

    • adolf says

      @womenstatus

      I am interfering here.
      I always pray. As the in and out going breath I am always praying to god.
      So could you please explain the logic of not praying when pissing in Islam? Why is Islamic or any other god offended when a women is in periods?

      Tx

    • Harshavardhan says

      @ WomanStatus

      Ye , I do pray always , whether i was taking food or whether i was pissing . I am single et , but i will surely pray while ejaculate for making baby .

      Its between God and me , i guess we do not need any terrorist agent like you . . :D :D :D
      For me , Everything Gifted by Nature , who feeds me , is holy .

      So , I hope you got your answer , now get lost….

      @Others

      Womanstatus doesn’t seems to be a woman , now if he was male he had never represented himself as a woman , What to call WomanStatus as SHEmale…??? :D:D:D:D:D:D *LoL*

      Dhanyavaad.

      • says

        @ WomanStatus

        In Hinduism the process of union of two bodies (male and female) to make a new life is termed spiritual, and in our religion it is not offending, you make these natural occurances in men (ejaculating) and women (mensis) as offending… so this is the respect you have for yourself.

        I pray during mensis and am not ashamed of it, I think no woman should be…why to be ashamed of what is natural and has been created by God for us? On the contrary the body removes all the filth inside it during mensis so it is a kind of purifying process…so I do not think that it is wrong to pray during mensis.

  17. tariqaziz says

    Mr.Agniveer
    Please give me relevant proofs for this so called “caste migration”

    i.e Vidura being born to a servant but becoming a minister and a brahmin
    and Vishwamitra’s sons becoming Shudras

    etc…

      • tariqaziz says

        dude
        Vidura is touted to be a son of Sage Vyasa and a lady in waiting for queens ambika and ambalika.
        So Vidura is a born brahmin

        Valmiki is also shown as son of Sage Prachtesa but was found by a hunter couple in the forests.

        Only Satyakama son of Jabali is a born Shudra but became a Learned person
        :)

          • Dharamvir Yodha says

            A great question. Bismilaur-Rehmanu-raheem Aryaji I am worried to much about Indian lost brothers. Muslim Brothers and Christians brothers. They sacrificed one of the greatest faith of the world to accept Mohamedism & Popzim but still they are considered as a lowest amonst them. I wel come all my lost brothers in our great faith which says ” the whole world is a family” Vansundhaiv Kutumbakam”

  18. Rishii says

    Thank you very much for this article and congratulations to Agniveer to coming out with this clarification over Manu Smriti which has been specifically picked up by castists(including Dr. Ambedkar) to abuse Hinduism. They claim Manu Smriti to be the actual reason for racist birth based bifurcation on Indian society while they comfortably forget the fact that all the westerners wanted to plunder this country until European imperialists came down here for plunder, destroyed its education and social system and forced birth based racist bifurcation like Europe here and found tricks to convince Hindus that it is from Hindu Scriptures. This later made it easy for them to abuse Hinduism. Only sane Jews like Einstein knew that all these low level nuisances are none of a part of the strongest Philosophy ever on earth called Vedas.

    • Rishii says

      Waiting for an article on Imperialist tricks on Indian social, educational and religious structure. Much needed to “Decolonize the Indian Mind”

  19. Kishorkant says

    The cast system in India claimed to be substantively endorsed in ManuSmruti; scholars criticizes it wrong with their own explanations. But pragmatically it persist deep in Hinduism as traditional culture with very abusive manner. As it is a deprecating tradition, no any organization had tried basically to eradicate this ugly stigma. The main symbolic is denial of Upnayan sanskar and wearing the Janeu [sacred thread]. If any organization arranges a public function in a mass scale with wide publicity for this deprived class it will definitely boost the morals of these downtrodden categories of Hindus. The Janeu or Upanayan sanskar is recognized as the approval as Dwij i.e. reborn is the real conversion as Hindu. This will create strong trust and faith in Hinduism for this class and will expand the horizon of Hinduism.

    • says

      My conclusion is very simple regarding the “caste system”…It exists everywhere and the reason for the corruption of it at least in Indian societies is NEPOTISM.

      The “caste system” in its essence as outlined in the Vedas is nothing but sheer genius! I mean, the concept of ‘division of labour’ exists everywhere – from your local paan waala’s shop to a a Fortune 500 company. People have jobs, roles, duties and some people are better suited either intellectually or physically to do a certain job.

      However, Indians are to be blamed for the corruption by taking the concept of Nepotism to new height and not the Vedas or Manu Smriti for the matter. Nepotism is the root cause and of course British historians and Muslim sheep will want to make Hinduism as the scapegoat by blindly pointing to the first scripture they could find which in this case just happened to be the Manu Smriti.

      Although, should be blame the Brits and Muslims? They tried to conquer our indigenous heritage and culture but they failed miserably. Obviously, in order to conquer a culture and defame a religion you have to defame the texts. We must all be grateful to Agniveer for their quest in protecting and highlighting the brilliance of our ancient texts with authentic translations from educated scholars.

      Jai Hind

  20. Akhila says

    @tariqaziz . . You answered your question dude. You know very well that Vidur was son of Sage Vyasa, and Sage Vyasa was a brahmin. But perhaps you dont know that Sage Vyasa was a shudra. Later he learned vedas and became Brahmin.

  21. sid says

    great article agniveer…i would like similar articleson ramayana and mahabharat indicating where adulterations have been made….
    Also I would like to request users especially harshvardhan and vajra to stop using extreme and derogatory terms for any other member.
    If women status or tariq aziz are aking some comments then please try to respond in a positive manner. Abusive and scathing remarks are representative of those who are not sure of their beliefs.These get scared and violent when someone challenges it. This leads to negative , anti-christian anti muslim remarks rather than pro hindu remarks.
    their religion is theirs to follow and i dont think any of us here are scholars on hindu dharma. And by talking like this you are chasing away people from other religions who are important for the success of such discussions –

    a) they criticize the wrong aspects or adulterations

    b)they give an unbiased view
    c) they may raise questions that you might not have thought of

    We have to only watch out for people who write scathingly about other religions and from the above discussion it looks as if vajra and harshvardhan are such rather than tariq aziz and womenstatus.

    Remember we are here to learn about hindu dharma and not defame any other religion. So focus your energies on the right front and please try to strengthen your belief through this article.

    Also such negative remarks deflate the calmness and knowledge pervaded by such enlightening articles. So please refrain from any anti remarks.

    I ould liketo appreciate tariq aziz and women staus for not responding in a derogatory manner to insinuation made by harshvardhan and vajra.

    At the end thanks again agniveer and looking forward to articles on mahabharat , gita and ramayana

    • says

      Namaste sid

      ————-Also I would like to request users especially harshvardhan and vajra to stop using extreme and derogatory terms for any other member.————-

      Please cite as to where I have used derogatory terms for any other member. Its not me but Quran and Hadith that equates women to pigs, dogs and donkeys. Hadith call women half intelligent than men not me. I have given few Hadith somewhere on the same page. Go check it. So if someone is questioning my religion, I have equal rights to ask her/him about her/his religion, dont I have?

      ————-This leads to negative , anti-christian anti muslim remarks rather than pro hindu remarks.————-

      If Islam allows killing of apostates, non believers, make them pay Jijyah in Islamic countries, loot, plunder and even rape of Kafir women (you probably dont know this and will get shocked again, I know), making them slaves, calling women as impure as dogs, asses and pigs, I HAVE ALL RIGHTS TO HATE ISLAM AND BE ANTI ISLAMIC. What say?

      ————-their religion is theirs to follow————

      I wish it would be but its not. Their religion will force me to pay Jijyah and will not allow me my freedom of expression as well as faith. In other words they want their religion to force down my throat which I will never accept.

      ———–and i dont think any of us here are scholars on hindu dharma.———

      So what?

      ————a) they criticize the wrong aspects or adulterations
      b)they give an unbiased view
      c) they may raise questions that you might not have thought of————

      I will never allow someone to criticize my book unless he/she criticize his/her books that contain hundred times more shit. I wont allow anyone give unbiased view about my religion unless he/she allows same for me for his faith and does same for his religion too.

      ————-Remember we are here to learn about hindu dharma and not defame any other religion.————

      Dont include everyone in your “we”. I am here to learn as well as to…

      • says

        @sid

        cont.. from previous

        Dont include everyone in your “we”. I am here to learn as well as to analyze anyone who claims copyright over truth.

        ————Also such negative remarks deflate the calmness and knowledge pervaded by such enlightening articles. So please refrain from any anti remarks.———–

        With this I partially agree. But I dont find any other way when supporters of terrorist Zakir Naik and killing of apostates start lecturing on Manu adulterations and caste system of Hindus.

        In the end, dear Brother/sister sid, I would like you to know more about Islam before you ask someone to stop criticizing it. Because if writing anti remarks for something is wrong, then by same logic, you are equally wrong to write ANTI REMARKS for me and Harsh. In fact you are more wrong because you once say its wrong but do it yourself at the same place :(

        all the best

  22. KalBhairav says

    @sid:

    Also I would like to request users especially harshvardhan and vajra to stop using extreme and derogatory terms for any other member.

    Harshvardhan and Vajra can defend themselves.

    I am all for civility in all exchanges. I do think it is in short supply on the internet where people are essentially anonymous. But I do have a question for you…If extreme and derogatory terms for any other member ought to lead to censure, have you considered asking for censure of the Quran? Why or why not?

    We have to only watch out for people who write scathingly about other religions

    Read the Quran and its soul-stirring respect for non-Muslims. ;-)

    • KalBhairav says

      @sid:

      What’s a few harsh words on the internet? Under Shariah, an apostate’s life is ended. Where’s civility there, my friend? Are you ready to ask for banning of the Quran/Hadiths that provide the foundation for Shariah world-over?

  23. Sid says

    Now just to point out a few things in your Comments vajra and kalbhairav….

    Now just imagine if a new user comes and reads these comments which you have just written yesterday…..
    Do u think he is going to gain any knowledge about hindu dharma ? – No
    Is he going to learn new things about our dharma ? – No
    Is he going to feel this site has a bunch of hindus who are bashing up islam? – yes ( and that’s what I felt cause I am a new user)

    Is he going to research more on Islam ? – Yes ….and that is what Vajra is also recommending

    Is he going to research more about hindu dharma? – No

    Hence at the end what should be our aim…to encourage some one to research more about hindu dharma or research more on islam….

    Also u might say that we need to know about the evils of islam…why do we need to know this….

    will it help us to hbecome a better hindu ? – No
    And if they commit crimes under the name of islam we need to oppose these crimes and maintain firm on hinduism

    Also i would rather prefer to read the vedas, gita , hindu literature and gain more knowledge about my own dharma rather than gaining knowledge about someone else’s

    And I am sure Vajra and kalbhairav would have read about the vedas, and other hindu literature and it would be really nice to know their revelations after reading these books, new things they might have learnt….

    Just imagine if agniveer had posted an article on why islam is bad rather than new things about manu smriti…would we have gained new knowledge and known more about a very important scripture….

    Dont you think that’s the way to go…..

  24. Sid says

    and Kal Bhairav i’m not the same sid that commented on the Stephen Hawking article…just to differentiate myself i’ll write as Sid Saw now…

  25. KalBhairav says

    @Sid:

    Also u might say that we need to know about the evils of islam…why do we need to know this….

    Are you kidding me?…How about the fact that Islam is the #1 problem in the world today? How about the fact that changing one’s mind/becoming an apostate is punishable by death under Shariah? How about the fact that a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman but a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man? How about the fact that those who speak of Darwinism in Muslim countries are given death threats? How about the fact that there IS no freedom of speech and true secularism in Islamic countries? How about the fact that Indian Muslims will NOT assimilate and will NOT sing the Vande Mataram? How about the fact that Muslims themselves in every country say they cannot be patriotic but owe allegiance to the global Islamic Caliphate?

    You ask some questions and answer them yourself wrongly. A Muslim who visits Agniveer/Satyagni/FaithFreedom goes back shaken with his faith shaken. The desert cult has no place in 21st century civilization [see reasons I provided for this in the 1st para].

    Enough reasons for you?

    Also, please dont teach me Hinduism.

  26. Satyendra says

    Namaskar Kalbhairav ji

    I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

    Dear, it is evident that all the Muslims in India whch have no resemblence with Arabs are our Hindu relatives. There are Patels, Chowdharies, Naiks, Begs, Siddiquis, Bhuttos and even some Raputs who got converted into different faiths. They are still our Hindu brothers and sisters.

    Whosoever from Islamic faith comes to Agniveer and puts his/her comments are mostly our own people. That is why, I still have deep respect for the Muslims in India. Due to negligence and ignorance, they are diverted more towards namaz, killing animals, and keeping Arabian rituals with them. These orthodox things are the linking threads between them and the Arabs. Later or sooner they would realize this fact; but please give some respect to them as they are our own Indian relatives.

    Recently, I came across some “Safai-Kamgars”, who were Muslims and said that they are cut-off from their own society. I told them that this thing even happens in orthodox hindus. I then shared some detailed historical events then he also accepted that his ancestors were definetely Arabs/Muslims. He accepted the fault and realized that his ancestors beared the brunt and atrocities. I told them to constinue be a Muslim, but try to think rationally. Make sure that his coming generations do their best in education and livelihoods. After all – your karma makes you what you are !

    In Vindhyachal region, there are some Brahmins and Even Somwanshi Thakurs (By their Karma) who respect Naari as Devis. They take ashirwads from all Naaris, expect their respective wives (individually). This means that anyone other than one’s wife is subjected to be given respect like a Devi or Mother. Even Parents consider their girl child as Devis and bow down to her for her blessings even she gets married. This is a Vedic Approach which even these Brahmins (By their Karma) are not aware of, as to from where this concept came into being.

    ” Thanks to Agniveer that I was able to…

    • KalBhairav says

      @Satyandra:

      it is evident that all the Muslims in India whch have no resemblence with Arabs are our Hindu relatives.

      Indian Muslims themselves will differ with you on this. Are you aware of the Muslim League and the partisan communal behaviour they displayed pre-Independence? Indian Muslims themselves believed they had more in common with the Arabian peninsula rather than the Indian peninsula. That’s why Pakistan was even conceived.

  27. Sid Saw says

    I have put my points across…dont want to enter in an argument….i’m not convinced by your reasons and i know you are not convinced by mine…so we’ll leave at this….

    thanks

  28. says

    WHERE IS THE ORIGIN OF ARYANS?

    Most of the historian says that the origin of Aryan from foreigner. There is no evidence the origin of Aryan from India.
    1. Hungary, Austria and Bohemia (Dr. Giles)
    2. North pole(Ernest homes: encyclopedia 2:269)
    3. People of chathalha yougam ,Anantholiya,Turkey(Colin renfue)
    4. Northern Europe, western Europe, parse, Afghanistan, etc
    5. Indian scholars like Bala Gagadar Thilak (explanation from the Rig-Veda 1:123:8 Arctic Home in Vedas, Page 19,103), Dr.S.Radakrishnan, sir R.Gbandarkar, akshyo Kumar majundar, R.E.C.dhatha believe the origin of Aryan from outside the India, Sathyavratha Patel: Hinduism: Religion and Way of Life.

    All the above scholars prove the origin of Aryan from number of clear and valid evidence from history. But dhyananda sarawathi,prof P.N Oak and some arya samaj member try to make the origin of Aryan from India, there is no evidence their claim, their organization ‘ethihas shudi sansthan’ only make the some false story for origin of Aryan. They can’t give historical or scientifically evidence from it. They believe the origin of Aryan from some superstition belief.

  29. Ajay Kumar says

    @shabeer
    What was Allah doing before this universe creation? Do not post irrelevant here but answer of this simple query.

  30. AMIT says

    Sulekha.com

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    Logout kanhannaexpatriatehindu.sulekha.com
    Report Abuse/Errors ProfileBlogsFriendsPhotosPostsBlogs Homein in sulekha.com blogs AN INVITATION TO REVERT TO HINDUISM
    Jun 21 2007 | Views 73 | Comments (1) | Report Abuse
    Tags: are vedhas and modern science devil-inspired according to quran(6:21)
    ShareThis

    AN INVITATION (DAWATH) TO REVERT TO HINDUISM.

    If you were a Hindu and already left Hinduism or intend to leave Hinduism simply for a piece of your daily bread or for the sake of your carnal desires, we sympathize with you and we have no further say about it.

    But if your conversion is in the pretext of intellectualism, we are bound to examine your new spiritual sources.

    Here we are with 101 simple Questions for you to ponder over, scrutinize and discuss with your hadhis(guides) before the finale.

    If you are able to seek satisfactory answers, we welcome you to share the same with us and if you are frustrated, we earnestly recommend you to refer to your ancestral property- Srimad Bagvad Geetha ,Upanishads and the Vedhas.

    Remember ,most of the following questions are rooted in Vedhas and Upanishads in a hair-split manner.

    Yet, Sanathana dharma never does hold that spirituality is downright intellectualism. It rather advocates self-realization as the best reliable tool of one’s spiritual examination.

    We pray this web page help you to revert to your ancestral faith and fortify Manavadharma thereof .

    Since Quran claims that it omits nothing small or great (18:49), we ask you

    101 QUESTIONS­…

  31. AMIT says

    38.HOW MANY PEOPLE DOES GOD NEED TO WORSHIP HIM?

    How did Allah fulfill His desire to be worshipped before he created Adam? How long did he Was He not satisfied with just one man worshipping him? Then, two, Adam and Eve? Had they not committed sin, they alone would have survived and Allah would have contented with their worship. Now, how many men and women does Allah need to worship Him?

    39.CAN ALLAH DESTROY HIMSELF?

    CAN ALLAH CREATE ANOTHER ALLAH?

    If Allah is all-powerful, can He destroy Himself or create another Allah more powerful than Himself?

    If He cannot, is He omnipotent?

    Is He subjected to any law or force beyond His power?

  32. AMIT says

    35.IS ALLAH A NEEDY LIKE US?

    Does Allah have a beginning? In the beginning of Allah who worshipped Him? How long did He survey without being worshipped by humans? Is He craze of being worshipped and thus a “needy” like a common human being?

    How did he spend His time before the creation of the universe?Where was the universe before it was created?

    36.HOW DID MOHAMMED PRAY TO GOD PRIOR TO PRE-QURANIC PERIOD?

    Did Mohammed pray to Allah? What was the mode of his prayer before the Quranic revelation? Was Mohammed praying Allah according to the Quranic standard for more than 40 years before he received the first Divine message? Was his prayer during the pre-Quranic revelation period accepted by Allah? If your answer is “YES”,then, were the prayers of other people not answered during the pre-quranic period?

    If their prayers were valid in the pre-Quranic period, are they not valid now? If non-muslim children prays to God will they be listened?

    If a grown up-mad man prays will God accept his prayers?

    Will the prayer of a man who never heard of Allah and Quran be answered?

    37.DOES GOD NEED BOOKS,ANGELS, AND PROPHETS?

    God needs pen and book to record and remember is really belittling God.There are many verses in Quran speaking of books and recordings in the heaven.

    Allah has the mother of Book. (13:39)

    We (Allah) note all things in a clear book (36:012)

    A book will be given in heaven-a book of good deed. (17:13)

    Writing is to man since his memory is weak. Why does God the omnipotent write and maintain a record for Himself when events and facts are at His memory chips?

    Why does He need prophets and angels for His help when mere thoughts and words would stir actions?

  33. A.L.Rawal says

    It is clear that caste-system is well-entrenched way of life among Hindus and also Muslims of India. converted Muslims do practise caste in their societies. Different castes of Muslims or Christians have different mosques or churches. Therefore caste-system is a malady which will not leave the Indian society.
    When two Indians meet in UK, USA or Canada they try to discover each others’ caste. If one happens to be a Brahmin the conversation dies down after a few pleasantries. If both happen to be Brahmins the meeting flourishes and more meetings take place to strengthen relations.
    Therefore caste has been carried to all the parts of the globe by NRIs.

  34. Ganesh says

    Thanks Agniveer for such a great article!! Please keep on guiding us for betterment of our lives and society. I see a lot of arguments going on here, but rather than getting caught in these I found that I should do what my heart says is truth i.e. DISTROY THE CAST SYSTEM.

    Thanks!
    Ganesh

  35. says

    A very good and rewarding effort i say. After I had studied the Manu Smriti and the purpose of The Vedas, I was confused about the origins of castism and hated that it was part of Hinduism. But your article confirmed my analysis that “Karma” matters and not “Birth” and I am a much satisfied and happy person now. Thanks a lot for this article. Good work! and keep it up!

  36. the great says

    thanks agniveer can you make a video of the caste system to prove it is against our scriptures

  37. INDIAN says

    AGNIVEER IS DISCRIMINATE.. MANUSMIRTI IS A DISCRIMINATING VEDA BOOK. IT HAS BEEN BURN BY INDIAN GOVERNMRNT.. ANY1 WHO IS SUPPORTING THIS STUFF.. IS A CRIMINAL …

    • dogra says

      So you object to dignity of labour you object to verses RV 10.191, you object to gender equality, you object to one caste, but different functions in life, you object to Karma Yoga-selfless service, criminal indeed.
      Sanatan Dharma is beautiful humane faith, basic questioning reveals the truth

  38. Tormented student says

    In order to prove that somebody is discriminating the objectioner must show a proof.But in order to prove that Manu Smriti is discriminating it requires a lot of discussions and debate.Those who frequently take their decisions about this book are also free to make their own decisions.But I hope that the decision will be right according to the logics.

  39. rammohan says

    hi

    i have seen conversation between abdullah and kalbhairav that abdulaah told not only he but many muslims say that universe has limits and god knows it i admit but we do not know what is limit for this universe and that is infinite which even modern science which has multiple facilities to explore the universe had just explored the mars and maximum extend to andromeda galaxy can abdullah say apart from this science has explored anything and even science have many theories on birth and existence in universe.

    as well as abdullah told that universe has beginning and ending can he explain with statement proving that which and what is begining and end of universe that science in contemporary told .

    finally even in hindu sayings that the god knows the end but nobody knows his end that is refered as infinity

  40. rammohan says

    hi indian

    why such ignorant on manu-smrithi do you think there is no discrimination exist in the modern world …black and white discrimination …gender discrimination…status discrimination ..linguistic discrimination….geographical discrimination…cultural discrimination…. educated and uneducated discrimination …Birth discrimination…occupation discrimination …iam so tired .manusmrithi is scientific and practical approach of categorising the people according to their abilities and nature of their work .we could see it today we have doctors,engineers,architect,economist,military men etc .. etc.. is this all based on the occupation not based discrimination

  41. Uthama Rao says

    I completely agree with Maharishi Manu and his smrithi. I believe that there are fundamental things live in every human according to their castes. I mean only kshatriyas are truly qualified to rule land. they can only save the land and the people. brahmins meant to prey the Lord for everything for their people and king. only vyshyas can do business in an acceptable way and virtue. Shudras not qualified except obeying the 3 other masters. that is being proven as they do disqualify in all the fields viz. politics, business, skills and humanity virtues in all the field, they brought down everything, in the present india. that is proved.

  42. says

    Manu was racist and his followers are also racist..Nowadays sharma is tailor,verma is tilling fields, yadav is ruler,,so-called shudras are ruling many states..I pity you this absurd, foolish ,racist, casteist Manu followers..You deserve the same treatment, you treated your fellow human beings..By the way know A pandit Sharma doing sweeper
    job..

    • Arun says

      Schooled by missionaries no less. The notion of race developed with Europe. Indians do not consider each other to be different races. Varna in Sanatana Dharma is not hereditary. If you read anything in Agniveer you’d know of the many articles written here against inherited status. So I pity a prejudiced fool like you who didnt even bother to read the articles here.

  43. Ravvi guru says

    Now u trying to escape yourself ….tell me just single things …is there any reality in the events of HINDU DHARM ….what did for humanity of ANY DEVTA…? ? Is any one can travel on RAT LION or pe cock ….kya koi smonder ko manthan ho sakta hai ,kya koi dharti ko smonder main faik

  44. Ravvi guru says

    Tell me app hanuman ko Geaini kehte hai kya boh ek booti ko pehchan nahi paaya ..? Kya Appke devta (Bhagwan) bhi aapas main lad hate hai ..haaa ladte hain …apke Bhagwan (Krishna) jo ladkiyo ke kapde Churate the Aashe hain

    • Ashish says

      @Ravvi

      —Tell me app hanuman ko Geaini kehte hai kya boh ek booti ko pehchan nahi paaya ..?—
      Kya ‘aankho ka doctor’ apki ‘gyanio’ ki shreni mein aata hai? Agar haan, toh kya woh open heart surgery kar sakta hai? ;-)

  45. anti-agni says

    Charter drafted by Islamist supporters of President Mohamed Morsi wins 63.8 percent of votes in two-round referendum. ALLAHUAKBAR

    • Arun says

      Through voter suppression and intimidation. It has already been reported in the news. Sad to see Egypt descend so after the revolution. Terrible times ahead for every one in Egypt who is not a Salafist/Islamist – women Copts, liberals, other Muslims. Watch now Egypt turn into the Sunni version of Iran. Dark days same dark days ahead as they were for all non-Muslims in the lands partitioned from India.

      • anti-agni says

        You are prejudiced, have you seen hosni Mubarak days? you always beat the drum that Islam can’t come through democracy and when Islamist Muslim brotherhood bringing revolution after facing all the torture then you have problem?

        all the complains by salvation thoroughly checked and investigated by electoral committee and they refuted all the charges but still you are believing in unfair election theory .

        all the rights of minorities will be protected and inshallah Egypt will become a role model. you just prevent west from plotting against Muslims.

        • Arun says

          No I have not pre judged anything. I have watched and observed to see what came out. The Muslim Brotherhood is not interested in real democracy. They are only interested in coming to power using democracy. Let us see if they will ever be outsed without force once elected. The world news reported there was voter intimidation, and suppression. Even Muslim women who did not wear the hijab were excluded from voting in some areas. That is the world the brotherhood is bringing to Egypt. Google it. Google also the plight of Copts. The Muslim Brotherhood did not lead the revolution, it was the secularists, liberals, feminists. The MB hijacked the revolution and it is not me saying so. It is Egyptians themselves. Speaking of torture guess who has been torturing the protestors, yup the brotherhood. They know this brotherhood is retrograde. That is why they are protesting against them, even stormed Morsi’s palace. We know all about how minority rights are protected in Egypt and other Muslim countries. Ask any Copt in Egypt, any Hindu in Pakistan or Bangladesh, any Zoroastrian or Bahai in Iran any they will give you a clear picture of how their rights are “protected” under Muslims.

          “Yet Egypt’s Nile region has always been the exception, the lawyer and chairwoman of the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) admits. Abu El Konsam worries that the Islamists currently in power in Cairo will use a newly drafted constitution to reverse the forward march of Egyptian history.
          “It’s a disaster. There isn’t a single article in the draft constitution that mentions the rights of women,” said Nihan Abu El Konsam. “We lawyers have made numerous proposals for constitutional articles that would make up for the social and cultural problems in our society and would allow women to finally achieve equal rights. But the Islamists ignored it.””
          http://www.dw.de/a-slap-in-the-face-for-egypts-women/a-16459115

  46. says

    The posts main intention is just to promote manu as a superhuman or so. But the manuscript is just another book which has got hell out of contradictions by its own content when we read it throughly. First of all the author of this post says that manu did say a sudhra can become bhramin and bhramin as sudhra as its been said in verse 10:65, purposely skimming the main content. Manu says an offspring of a brahmin through a sudhra women can be bhramin after 7 generations(which means purely on birth not by the way, or job he does) if the consecutive females born out of the families which get married to bhramins in every generation. shhit!

    • says

      If you comment without reading, you are making blunder. Your goal seems to be to incriminate Manu than fight castesim. Our goal is to destroy roots of casteism. Our study proves that Manu was more against caste system than even the anti-casteist and Ambedkarite forces. If Manu was alive, he would have called for ban on this bogus word called ‘Dalit’.

      • says

        hope you’d have read the manu then, why did he leaves the fourth varna on most? Do you deny that, the manu didn’t say that what i’ve posted here, a sudhra can be a bhramin means he doesn’t say “at the same birth”, he says the offspring of the 7th generation for a women who’s born out of a bhramin male and shudra female’s love if the every generations woman’s offspring should be through a bhramin?!?

      • says

        10:65 If (a female of the caste), sprung from a Brahmana and a Sudra female, bear (children) to one of the highest caste, the inferior (tribe) attains the highest caste within the seventh generation.

        It says clearly that by birth one comes under the varnas, and the fourth varna is not twice born, only the bhramin, chatriya and vaishya are called so, if they do the upanyana at the right time as its been said in the earlier verses.

        • Aman Singh says

          That is a fake verse. Please read Manusmriti distributed by Agniveer at http://agnikart.com which analyses each verse carefully. Almost half the verses of modern Manusmriti made popular are totally fake and out of context. And there is nothing objectionable in rest of the Manu Smriti. What is your problem with Manu Smriti that Agniveer is promoting? You are against Manu or caste system?

          • says

            Let me tell you one thing, if you guys are against caste system, you won’t be stand with Manu. The content I’ve quoted above is just to counter your content with a single reference. But if you read the Manu you can see the fourth varna is neglected and they’re not included to tell the stuffs how its been said to the other three varnas. Whereas its been clearly told that the fourth varna should work for the other three varnas dutifully without asking any question. Also, regarding upanyana or education at the time, the shudra’s are not allowed and its not at all mentioned, also for women// Manu 2:67 The nuptial ceremony is stated to be the Vedic Sacrament for women//. These references I’ve put in are from the sites which promote the hInduism. For those who can think and ask questions cannot go with the book for sure. That’s why he’s said in the verse 2:11.

  47. says

    then what about Gita, in which the caste is told in the following verses:

    Verse 18:41
    O Arjuna, the activities of the bhramanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras are clearly divided according to the qualities born of their own nature.

    Verse 18:42
    The actions of a brahmana arising from his own nature are serenity, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge of the Vedas, wisdom and firm faith.

    Verse 18:43
    The actions of a ksatriya born of his own nature are heroism, exuberance, determination, resourcefulness, without trace of cowardice in battle, generosity and leadership.

    Verse 18:44
    The actions of a vaisya born of his own nature are agriculture, cow protection and trade, also the actions of a Sudra born of his own nature consists in service to brahmanas, ksatriyas and vaisyas.

    all the so-called-sacred verses are just written by someone, manipulated by many to their personal or social interest/influence. I’m not denying that there’s no good in those books, but they’re not worth as its been promoted as Divine or so.

    • says

      1. Gita is not divine as Vedas.

      2. The varnas mentioned in Geeta are not related to birth, but to one’s basic nature. A Brhamin can take birth in home of Shudra and Shudra can take birth in home of Brahmin.

      If you have self-control, austerity etc, you are Brahmin. It does not matter in which family you were born. Same for other Varnas.

      It is in later era that people started referring to Birth for varnas, which is a big blunder and what we are against vehemently. There is no verse in Vedas that endorse birth-based casteism. Please refer all articles on caste system on site. Just because few fools manipulate the scriptures, we don not reject the scriptures. We instead should reject the fools and throw them out. Think of it.

        • says

          It is society’s blunder that they took meaning wrongly. If one misinterprets the book of science properly then you cannot blame Newton or Einstein for it. Vedas and Geeta very clearly state that Varna are not determined by caste. They say that one’s qualities and profession determine one’s Varna. The word ‘Varna’ itself means ‘choice’. Manu also was against caste system. If not, he would have chosen some other word instead of ‘Varna’.

          Selfish people cooked their own verses and propagated in name of Manu Smriti. They could not do so with Vedas because Vedas are protected through different oral renditions.

          Now we fight against each other in name of Manu. On contrary, real Manuvaad will be to destroy caste system from very root. Read our articles on http://agniveer.com/category/society/caste-system/ . Ask yourself – how many in history have rejected caste-system so clearly and so uncompromisingly? And we got this inspiration from no other texts than Vedas, Geeta and Manu Smriti. So let us join hands, kill the caste system totally, and establish true religion. If that demands changing the society, lets do it. But let us not destroy our foundation just because some fools are misusing it. Do you leave your mother just because some people are calling her villain? No. Instead you teach such people the right lesson and defend the glory of mother. Lets join hands and change the world.

          • Ashish B says

            @Agniveer/Ankur

            “They say that one’s qualities and profession determine one’s Varna.”

            I have a question, what would you call a person who is doing job of a vedic priest but indulge in corrupt practices? As a profession he pass as a Brahmin acc. to varna system but how about his inner qualities, his charachter? In what varna he fits in?

            Dhanyavaad

          • says

            Please read our articles. Varna is a choice. It is a property. All of us are Brahmins when we seek knowledge, Kshatriya when we seek strength, vaishya, when we seek prosperity, Shudra when we do manual labor and Dasyus when we indulge in corruption.

          • says

            would like to conclude with one thing, somewhere you’ve posted that the fault also falls on the so-called-shudras because, they’ve allowed the atrocities against them. But you’ve to understand one thing, no one will accept the slavery imposed upon them. The peoples right to get educated, choose a better profession(though there is no such, if the people are not ready to clean the ditches then the whole country would be off dirty, there’s no such good profession or bad. but the people who’re all doing the cleaning works and those who’ve been forced to do so are said to be shudras and not given a fair treatment). These people are denied to have property for them-self. We can quote the verses saying so from Manusmriti itself for sure. If you’re not allowed to have property, getting educated and forced to be slave over a time period your generation will become pucca slaves than better human being that’s what happened. You can see even nowadays the lower caste people are not allowed to get educated and come up in life by their own than depending on the upper caste. The khairlanji incident is one of the great proof on that. The Dharmapuri incident in tamilnadu clearly says that how the upper caste will behave if those people are coming up in life a better way. The upper caste goons rampaged more than 400 houses systematically not allowing the local police or fire officers to arrive the place at right time and they’ve looted all the valuable stuffs from the homes before they set them on fire.

            Even after independence Mr.Rajaji was about to bring “Kula kalvi” means a guy from one particular caste should get trained what his father’s main profession.

            Now just because of the invasions of the foreigners we’re allowed to read, explore and agitate against the system. Thanks to the British, if they wouldn’t we would not be allowed to read. If you guys think that why are we thanking them that’s just because those who’re all here are ready to oppress us than giving any choices/chances to come up.

          • says

            Dear Brother,
            What we mean is that if their is injustice, we must rise. We won’t comment on Rajaji or anybody else. We will also not comment on specific incidences because that does not solve the key issues. What we strongly announce is that Agniveer stands for completely merit-based society. No nonsense of birth-based caste. We stand for change in prevailing order of things. And we get inspiration for this from Vedas.

            We don’t believe in blame game. We believe in just future. And that demands annihilation of caste system based on birth. We are running special programs to strengthen those who are so-called socially backward. If we get support, which we are trying hard to get, we will empower the so-called lower castes with education and wisdom and change their future. That will silence all. We have devised special plans in this direction, by working with the ‘most backward’ and showcase how they can become ‘most forward’. We will continue this mission and if Paramatma blesses, we shall make caste-system as irrelevant as the dinosaurs. We need support from all likeminded in this noble mission.

          • says

            Dear Agniveer,

            If a guy reads the Manusmriti as full, he can understand the subject in a better manner than skimming I believe. And its not society that caused, its been clearly said there.

            you can check out the verses.

            in the verse 2:7 he says that whatever given in the manusmriti is based on Vedas alone. (Though we’ve not yet started to read the complete vedas, but will put them also into the acid test)

            in the verse 2:210 he says that a guru’s wife can be given all the respects as given to the master if she belongs to the same caste of the guru.

            in the verses 3:12 to 3:19 he’s telling about inter caste marriage.

            A bhramin can marry a lady belonging to the four varnas, chatriya his varna and the two lowest varnas, vaishya in his varna and shudra, whereas the shudra should be marrying a lady belonging to his varna. Its just to protect the varna and to give the upper hand to choose the woman by the upper caste persons.

            This doesn’t mean that intercaste is allowed, he also says that a person who marries a woman lower than his own varna, will go to hell and will pull his generations to the fourth varna, and the offsprings can be accepted as the respected higher varna on the 7th generation as said in the verse 10:65. Which purely states that the varna/caste is based on BIRTH alone.

            Even it has got lot many stuffs which is really funny to quote/discuss. we’re just going through it verse by verse and co-relate the stuffs.

            So kindly avoid promoting the skimmed content to protect just because you’ve to do so by the name of culture or so. A culture should move forward for a better treatment of every individual than dividing and encouraging slavery.

          • says

            How do you know the ‘full Manusmriti’ is not fake? What if I add stupid sentences in your name in this comment and say that you have said all that stupid things?

            Let us be sensible. As we have stated, the original manu Smriti is devoid of any casteism. On contrary, it opposes casteism. To find out how and why, please read our Manusmriti research by Dr Surendra Kumar that analyzes each and every verse of Manu Smriti for authenticity and proves which are fake ones.

            Just as we can’t punish anyone because his facebook account got hacked, in same lines, we cannot condemn Manu despite evidence of hacking with Manu Smriti, just because we have an urge to hate Manu or our glorious culture. We believe in intellectual analysis and not blinded hatred.

            We stick to our stand – original Manu Smriti promotes merit and gender rights. It is against foolish concepts like slavery, casteism and gender discrimination. And hence we are proud of it, while we reject the fake verses.

    • Ankur says

      @Annihilate the caste: what is the problem with these verses? in your own way of putting them, is the answer :
      qualities born of their own nature, it does not say “birth”? cant you see that?

        • Ankur says

          @Annihilate the caste : now Samskrit word under contention is “SwaBhav” which has been transliterated as “own nature” . when you do a thing over and over (training) again it becomes your natural state or swabhav , so in essence one who has to understand the true sense/meaning of bhagvat geeta should try to grasp the spirit of the geeta and not the literal meaning in English.
          Besides the varna had been since time immemorial been decided in the gurukulas by the guru after making the students go through the same king of training.After undergoing the same training whosoever emerged with a relevant “varna swabhav” was granted that varna.
          aum

  48. says

    oops, so you say that all the Manusmritis available is fake one, even the contents published through the sites which promote hinduISM, and the one you’ve alone the true and authentic one got straight from Manu himself, great, there we agree, you’re a true follower of Manu as he himself says that whatever written in the smriti is got by him from bhramma! Keep going!

    • says

      Don’t act chilidish. Not all Manusmriti is fake. A large number of verses are. And this is a well researched conclusion. If a site promotes Hinduism, that does not make it final authority on fact and fiction. Kindly review the Manu Smriti published by us and then make a factual argument. And the view presented by us is not our isolated view. Its the predominant view of a big group among Hindus who are research oriented.

  49. Rakesh says

    wonderful work ,great work, this is an eye opening version ,pls share if more versions are available for diff religious books

  50. dipti shrivastava says

    Agniveer Sir,

    Please let me know when and where Swami Agnivesh burnt Manusmriti. If this is incorrect then please dont misguide people against any respectful person. this is illegal.

    • raj.hyd says

      swami agnivesh ji ne kis sthan me v kab msnusmriti jalai hai uska ham sabut chahenge jisse unse us vishsy par baat ho sake !

  51. Vignesh V says

    “Never insult anyone born in lower family” !!! Just curious what does “born in lower family” mean???!! The statement contradicts this article; i believe

    • Ankur says

      “Never insult anyone born in a poor family” does that make your curious what does “born in a poor family” mean?!!!
      well these is one difference , Knowledge and wealth.

  52. Jagjit says

    I am sorry but am pretty disappointed at the way you have quoted things out of context (which you have alleged apologists of other religions of doing) to drive a point. I must admit that I had never read the Manu Smriti before and this article made me go through it in totality, and I have come to the conclusion that it is nothing but a hate book (a’least the translation I am reading).

    You are right when you say everyone is born a Shudra.

    2.37. (The initiation) of a Brahmana who desires proficiency in sacred learning should take place in the fifth (year after conception), (that) of a Kshatriya who wishes to become powerful in the sixth, (and that) of a Vaisya who longs for (success in his) business in the eighth.

    2.38 Gives times for initiation for top 3 Varnas

    2.39. After those (periods men of) these three (castes) who have not received the sacrament at the proper time, become Vratyas (outcasts), excluded from the Savitri (initiation) and despised by the Aryans.

    2.172. (He who has not been initiated) should not pronounce (any) Vedic text excepting (those required for) the performance of funeral rites, since he is on a level with a Sudra before his birth from the Veda.

    This means irrespective of your Varna if there is no initiation after birth, you are doomed to a level of the Sudra. For the Sudra, since there is no initiation, he is anyways doomed.

    If you are looking to reform Hindu society, lets have the courage to call out Holy texts that profess inequality as junk (its is anyways a Smriti). Being in denial is not going to solve the problem. Besides you have misquoted the Purusha Shukta in the article (its 10.90.11-12 and not 10.10.11-12), which in itself is innocuous. However, when Manu took prevalent practices and codified them with divine sanction of Vedas, he established inequality in Hindu society for perpetuity.

    Would urge everyone to read the Manu Smriti. Couldn’t give all the hate verses due to shortage of space.

    • Krishnarao says

      Jag,

      “However, when Manu took prevalent practices and codified them with divine sanction of Vedas, he established inequality in Hindu society for perpetuity.”

      – From what I seen Agniveer wrote, he did make it clear that he doesn’t agree with all the different Manu text. And he also says there are some corrupt ones and some not so corrupt. And his point is, anything that goes against he Vedas is not valid, That means any Manu text that goes against the Vedas is not to be accepted. I hope that is clear to you.

      Best,
      Krishnarao

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